WEBVTT - It Could Happen Here Weekly 45 0:00:00.240 --> 0:00:02.680 Hey, everybody, Robert Evans here, and I wanted to let 0:00:02.720 --> 0:00:06.359 you know this is a compiletion episode. So every episode 0:00:06.480 --> 0:00:09.600 of the week that just happened is here in one 0:00:09.680 --> 0:00:13.440 convenient and with somewhat less ads package for you to 0:00:13.480 --> 0:00:15.960 listen to in a long stretch if you want. If 0:00:16.000 --> 0:00:17.919 you've been listening to the episodes every day this week, 0:00:17.960 --> 0:00:20.159 there's gonna be nothing new here for you, but you 0:00:20.160 --> 0:00:27.640 can make your own decisions. All right, Hello, this is 0:00:27.800 --> 0:00:32.000 it could happen here? Oh boy? Yeah, we've can't rob 0:00:32.000 --> 0:00:34.800 it into being here for Civil War week no less. 0:00:35.960 --> 0:00:40.559 We're also joined by special guest Margaret Killjoy. Uh and 0:00:40.640 --> 0:00:42.159 so if you can get who are less special? Now 0:00:42.320 --> 0:00:47.840 we're whole week. Yeah, we're here to start a civil war. Right, 0:00:48.960 --> 0:00:51.320 that's what I've read and read it started civil war sophy. 0:00:52.080 --> 0:00:57.040 We cleared that. We cleared that with corporate righte I 0:00:57.160 --> 0:01:03.520 hear officially backing the start of a civil war essentially 0:01:03.960 --> 0:01:08.400 corporated you know, go, go go ahead, cool Zone Media, 0:01:08.560 --> 0:01:10.920 start a civil war, start a civil war? Do we 0:01:11.040 --> 0:01:14.559 be civilly and criminally liable for all violence that occurred? 0:01:15.240 --> 0:01:17.440 See I Heart Radio guarantee. Yeah, and we've been listed 0:01:17.440 --> 0:01:21.039 the people on this call who are Margaret Kildrey, Devans, 0:01:21.680 --> 0:01:25.440 Garrison Davis, James Stout and myself, Sophie. They are also 0:01:25.560 --> 0:01:30.399 all civil and criminally liable. But do we get to 0:01:30.440 --> 0:01:34.399 collectivize a huge maybe, like or so of all the 0:01:34.440 --> 0:01:40.320 industry obviously, I mean some of us do. Okay, Okay, 0:01:40.720 --> 0:01:42.600 what it's like any civil war. You're going to find 0:01:42.640 --> 0:01:46.119 out who later. Okay, we're going to find out who today. 0:01:46.240 --> 0:01:50.000 Robert this is my death guy into how to beat 0:01:50.000 --> 0:01:54.160 a coup, start a civil war. And when the first 0:01:54.160 --> 0:01:56.800 part of it good, well, that's the only part of 0:01:56.800 --> 0:01:58.600 it you really need to win, Yeah it is. You 0:01:58.600 --> 0:02:00.520 don't want to get too bucked down in the latest 0:02:00.560 --> 0:02:03.160 staff because it's just depressing. So we we just want 0:02:03.160 --> 0:02:04.720 to focus on how to win the first forty eight 0:02:04.760 --> 0:02:08.600 hours and from there you can take it. Take a week, 0:02:08.680 --> 0:02:11.560 take the weekend off, yeah, break off, chill out, yeah fine, 0:02:12.040 --> 0:02:13.679 or just go down as a hero and let everyone 0:02:13.720 --> 0:02:16.120 else sort everything else out afterwards. And that's probably the 0:02:16.160 --> 0:02:18.400 best option. That's going to learn about a guy who 0:02:19.400 --> 0:02:21.920 dies within twenty four hours at the war starting as 0:02:21.919 --> 0:02:23.760 a hero and gets a gun named after him, which 0:02:23.760 --> 0:02:26.360 is all we can really want for ourselves. Ah, that 0:02:26.480 --> 0:02:29.320 does sound like the dream. Yeah, that's that's a that's 0:02:29.320 --> 0:02:32.040 the way Robert Evans needs to go. Not suggesting that 0:02:32.320 --> 0:02:36.400 anytime soon, of course. All right, I'm sure to imagine. 0:02:36.400 --> 0:02:41.320 Would it be the Robert or would it be there? Yeah, Robert, 0:02:41.440 --> 0:02:44.600 just give him a good old bobbin. It would be 0:02:44.720 --> 0:02:48.000 named after my nixt name, my nickname, the Jesus Christ 0:02:48.000 --> 0:02:55.280 of podcasting, right, Sophie, Now, yeah, no, Sophia says yes. 0:02:55.639 --> 0:02:57.920 If there's not already a gun named after Jesus, I 0:02:57.960 --> 0:03:01.000 will be shocked. Yeah, it's probably not a kind of 0:03:01.320 --> 0:03:04.080 company you want to. We've we've really gotten off, and 0:03:04.320 --> 0:03:08.880 I think, in all fairness, it's not my fault. I 0:03:08.880 --> 0:03:11.160 think it's Garrison's fault. Yeah, that's why I was going 0:03:11.240 --> 0:03:13.800 to blame. I think we've all agreed on that. What 0:03:13.840 --> 0:03:17.680 are we talking about, Jim talking about the Spanish Civil War? Today? 0:03:17.720 --> 0:03:20.799 Will be be desegrating the name of Jesus Christ. A 0:03:20.840 --> 0:03:24.280 little bit later as well. So desigrating the name of 0:03:24.360 --> 0:03:28.040 Jesus Christ, i'd gathered. Yeah, we'll do. That's just some 0:03:28.120 --> 0:03:30.320 more for you today. I'll send you some pictures afterwards 0:03:30.480 --> 0:03:32.720 that you will enjoy. All Right, So we're talking about 0:03:32.720 --> 0:03:34.720 the Spanish Civil War. We're not talking about all of 0:03:34.720 --> 0:03:38.480 it because that's a lot, and because I think it's 0:03:38.520 --> 0:03:40.280 important when we talk about the Spanish Civil War to 0:03:40.320 --> 0:03:45.600 talk about like the moments when revolutionary things happened, because 0:03:45.640 --> 0:03:47.800 they are as important as the moments when terrible things 0:03:47.840 --> 0:03:52.560 happened and the moments when the people in arms defeated 0:03:52.600 --> 0:03:57.120 the coupe, because that's both instructive and inspiring and interesting 0:03:57.440 --> 0:04:00.040 way to have a question. Yeah, what's the spanning a 0:04:00.080 --> 0:04:02.720 civil war? That's a great question and one I've failed 0:04:02.720 --> 0:04:05.960 to address thus far. It is a war that happened 0:04:06.000 --> 0:04:09.440 in Spain. It wasn't very civil, so only two out 0:04:09.440 --> 0:04:13.960 of three remarkably uncivil. Actually, so we're looking at nineteen 0:04:14.040 --> 0:04:17.320 thirty six today, we're looking at July nine and twentieth 0:04:17.400 --> 0:04:19.680 ninety six, right, But you can see it as like 0:04:19.720 --> 0:04:23.520 the precursor to the Second World War. You have people 0:04:23.520 --> 0:04:25.920 who are fascist or fascist a jacent you have people 0:04:25.920 --> 0:04:29.320 who are explicitly anti fascist, and they are killing each 0:04:29.320 --> 0:04:34.120 other from nineteen thirty nine, and the anti fascists win, right, 0:04:34.600 --> 0:04:39.560 not entirely unfortunately, Yeah, that they have some wins along 0:04:39.600 --> 0:04:42.640 the way, you know, Okay, Yeah, there's some moments, the 0:04:42.680 --> 0:04:45.200 friends that you meet along the way. Yeah, what is 0:04:45.240 --> 0:04:46.960 civil war if not the friends that you make along 0:04:46.960 --> 0:04:52.360 the way? Don't answer that because it's sad. But yeah, 0:04:52.400 --> 0:04:54.599 these these are some friendly times. These are some good times. 0:04:55.240 --> 0:04:57.240 These are the first forty year hours of the Spanish 0:04:57.240 --> 0:04:59.760 Civil War. We're going to start with an anecdote about 0:04:59.760 --> 0:05:02.520 the pure Olympics, which you probably have never heard of 0:05:02.839 --> 0:05:06.000 unless you're me, because it's a it's a thing that 0:05:06.040 --> 0:05:09.400 I've written about ship Ton, but not many folks have 0:05:09.440 --> 0:05:12.960 read about. It's the antifer Olympics. It's the best way 0:05:13.000 --> 0:05:15.520 to understand the pot to Olympics. It was a gathering 0:05:15.560 --> 0:05:18.279 held in nineteen thirty six in Barcelona and opposition to 0:05:18.279 --> 0:05:23.080 the Berlin Olympics. So the Olympics are given to Weimar 0:05:23.160 --> 0:05:26.440 Germany in one right, they're not given to Nazi Germany. 0:05:26.520 --> 0:05:31.280 But when Germany, yeah it's Germany is the pre Nazi 0:05:31.480 --> 0:05:34.840 it's before Hitler takes power. Yeah, when they were actually 0:05:34.880 --> 0:05:38.279 pretty cool in some way, it's pretty pretty progressive for 0:05:38.320 --> 0:05:41.159 the time period, right. In lots of ways, it's the 0:05:41.160 --> 0:05:45.600 woke Germans. Yes, it's the work Germans. It's it's like 0:05:45.640 --> 0:05:48.880 if if if AOC was running nineteen thirties Germany, that's 0:05:48.920 --> 0:05:51.839 what you get. I bet they had a whole institute 0:05:51.839 --> 0:05:54.880 that trans people got to hang out at and learn 0:05:54.920 --> 0:05:57.520 about themselves. I've heard that, Yet what happened to the 0:05:57.560 --> 0:06:03.239 institute I can't remember. The Nazis game and killed the 0:06:03.279 --> 0:06:07.920 first woman to medically transition in the Western Hemisphere and 0:06:08.560 --> 0:06:11.440 burned all of the books and then stole the records 0:06:11.480 --> 0:06:13.719 that the people have been keeping about all the gay people, 0:06:13.880 --> 0:06:16.919 and then rounded up all the gay people and murdered 0:06:16.960 --> 0:06:20.640 them in camps. That's that's what happened. Well, that's disappointing. Well, 0:06:20.680 --> 0:06:23.320 good thing. That'll good thing. That will never happen again. Anyway, 0:06:24.000 --> 0:06:27.480 we've learned our lesson. Yeah, there's absolutely no echoes of 0:06:27.560 --> 0:06:30.080 that in current political discourse. So that's fine. Hey, let's 0:06:30.120 --> 0:06:35.880 learn how to kill fascists. Yeah, buck them. Okay, So 0:06:35.880 --> 0:06:37.919 we're talking about the popul Olympics, the anti for Olympics. 0:06:37.960 --> 0:06:41.080 The Olympics that happened because the Nazis are ship and 0:06:41.120 --> 0:06:45.800 you shouldn't play games with ship people. Uh, to include 0:06:45.839 --> 0:06:48.000 the Olympics, even if you very much want to win 0:06:48.120 --> 0:06:53.800 a medal. Uh. Take note, athletes doing sports and dictatorships, 0:06:54.200 --> 0:06:56.920 and so a lot of people, about twenty people instead 0:06:56.960 --> 0:06:58.920 decided to go to Barcelona where they're going to host 0:06:59.000 --> 0:07:02.479 this alternative games. Uh. And the seb text of the 0:07:02.480 --> 0:07:05.599 popular Olympics. It's not just that like shouldn't have the Olympics, 0:07:05.760 --> 0:07:10.200 it's that gasp shouldn't exist, and the anti fascism is 0:07:10.240 --> 0:07:15.760 strong and youthful and perfectly capable of fighting a war 0:07:15.840 --> 0:07:18.480 and killing the fascists. Right. That that's sport. George or 0:07:18.480 --> 0:07:21.560 Will called sport war without the shooting. Right, Uh, this 0:07:21.720 --> 0:07:25.360 is a war with the shooting. It's a good quote. 0:07:25.680 --> 0:07:27.640 George Orwell pops up a few times in this one. 0:07:28.600 --> 0:07:31.720 Not always right. Bad everything that he was right about that, Um, 0:07:32.680 --> 0:07:34.960 we passed up at the wrong time. It's never mind 0:07:35.480 --> 0:07:38.040 trying to make a George or Will gets shot shot 0:07:38.080 --> 0:07:40.480 in the throat. Now I just feel bad about it 0:07:40.520 --> 0:07:44.840 because at least that's the least I mean, before podcasting, 0:07:44.920 --> 0:07:46.960 the throat was the best place to get shot as 0:07:46.960 --> 0:07:51.240 a writer. That's true, that's true. Yeah, it didn't go 0:07:51.280 --> 0:07:52.880 well for him in the end. It sort of did 0:07:53.000 --> 0:07:55.760 end his life prematurely, I guess but he got some 0:07:55.800 --> 0:08:01.400 bangers out in terms of books. First, yeah, it can't him, 0:08:01.440 --> 0:08:03.120 all right. So we're talking about the popul Olympics, talking 0:08:03.120 --> 0:08:05.200 about the night before the Popular Olympics. You're gonna learn 0:08:05.440 --> 0:08:08.679 why you haven't heard of the Popular Olympics. So guests 0:08:08.880 --> 0:08:13.440 keep listening, okay. Any six years ago in Barcelona, Pau Casal, 0:08:13.920 --> 0:08:16.920 the father of modern cello, was leading the final rehearsals 0:08:16.920 --> 0:08:19.640 for the opening ceremony of the Popular Olympics. They had 0:08:19.680 --> 0:08:22.320 already practiced. The Hymn of the Popular Olympics was a 0:08:22.360 --> 0:08:24.880 song co written by a Catalan composer and an exiled 0:08:24.960 --> 0:08:28.360 Jewish one who had fled oppression in Germany. Now they 0:08:28.400 --> 0:08:30.960 moved to beethoven Tonight's symphony. You might know it as 0:08:31.000 --> 0:08:34.760 you know too. Joy Kassals recounted what happened next in 0:08:34.840 --> 0:08:38.439 his memoirs. I just called the chorus on stage to 0:08:38.480 --> 0:08:40.880 sing the Kali. When a man rushed into the hall. 0:08:41.480 --> 0:08:44.640 He handed me an envelope, saying, breathlessly, this is from 0:08:44.679 --> 0:08:48.760 Minister Gasol. An uprising is expected in the city at 0:08:48.800 --> 0:08:53.000 any moment. I read Gasol's message. It said our rehearsal 0:08:53.040 --> 0:08:56.280 should be discontinued. Immediately or the musicians should go straight home, 0:08:56.640 --> 0:08:58.760 and that the concert schedule for the following day had 0:08:58.760 --> 0:09:02.000 been canceled. The messenger told me that since the message 0:09:02.000 --> 0:09:04.959 was written, an insurrection had started in Madrid and fascist 0:09:05.000 --> 0:09:08.320 troops were now marching on Barcelona. I read the message 0:09:08.320 --> 0:09:10.400 aloud to the orchestra and to the chorus, and then 0:09:10.440 --> 0:09:13.000 I said, dear friends, I do not know when we 0:09:13.040 --> 0:09:16.080 shall meet again. As a farewell to one another, shall 0:09:16.120 --> 0:09:19.000 we play the finale? And they shouted yes, let us 0:09:19.000 --> 0:09:22.840 finish it. Then the orchestra played and the chorus sang 0:09:23.240 --> 0:09:27.200 as never before. I could not see the notes because 0:09:27.240 --> 0:09:31.880 of my tears. So that's how power Casal started civil war. 0:09:32.160 --> 0:09:35.400 They finished that concert, incidentally, they came back to the 0:09:35.440 --> 0:09:39.080 same place, and yeah, it was very the same people. 0:09:39.960 --> 0:09:44.080 Uh no, not well, the same institutions. Right, these are 0:09:44.080 --> 0:09:48.000 called or fails, like I guess, popular chorus is popular 0:09:48.280 --> 0:09:52.439 kind of city orchestra kind of thing. So they finished 0:09:52.440 --> 0:09:58.120 it in the same place because in the intervening eighty 0:09:58.520 --> 0:10:02.640 eight years they was a little issue with the Franco dictatorship, 0:10:03.640 --> 0:10:07.480 which there still is in Spain incidentally, but yeah, Barstilon 0:10:07.559 --> 0:10:10.400 has very much reclaimed its memory is an anti Fascial city. 0:10:10.400 --> 0:10:14.720 Following the dictatorship, I could, really, I can really see 0:10:14.760 --> 0:10:18.439 myself in those musicians, you know, like it just feels 0:10:18.480 --> 0:10:22.920 like a very possible thing. Unfortunately, to just be like, Okay, 0:10:22.960 --> 0:10:25.480 well we're going to do this thing and then well, 0:10:25.520 --> 0:10:30.640 I guess I don't know, should we finish? Like yeah, yeah, right, 0:10:30.800 --> 0:10:34.840 like at some point maybe not. Like, Look, all of 0:10:34.920 --> 0:10:38.080 us were doing something else when we learned that a 0:10:38.160 --> 0:10:42.280 bunch of Chudd's had stormed Congress, right and that the 0:10:42.480 --> 0:10:46.880 yak hatman was inside the Senate chamber. Um like like 0:10:47.320 --> 0:10:49.240 the it and some of us gonna. I was on 0:10:49.280 --> 0:10:51.360 a bike ride. I kept riding my bike like there's 0:10:51.360 --> 0:10:54.160 not there's not much I can do. Uh. Sometimes you 0:10:54.160 --> 0:10:55.959 have to take the moments of joy because there might 0:10:56.000 --> 0:10:59.679 be much joy available for the next little while. Um 0:11:00.800 --> 0:11:02.599 So yeah, I think it's easy to see myself and 0:11:02.640 --> 0:11:04.880 a lot of this stuff. Perhaps that's why I'm drawn 0:11:04.920 --> 0:11:09.240 to it, uh all right. The following morning, the city 0:11:09.280 --> 0:11:12.079 woke up before dawn to the sound of gunfire. To 0:11:12.200 --> 0:11:15.280 most of the Catalan working classes, wasn't a surprise. The 0:11:15.400 --> 0:11:17.920 cure had begun two days earlier in Morocco, and word 0:11:17.920 --> 0:11:21.120 traveled quickly among the anarchists. By the time the men 0:11:21.120 --> 0:11:24.800 of the Fourth Division and a General Fernandez Bodiel began 0:11:24.840 --> 0:11:28.320 their march to the central Plataa Catalunia, the people of 0:11:28.320 --> 0:11:32.439 the Popular Front were ready. The uprising had begun in 0:11:32.480 --> 0:11:35.680 Morocco in se an all day tension, A bit building 0:11:36.400 --> 0:11:39.160 Union radio had called a general strike, and despite the 0:11:39.240 --> 0:11:41.800 refusal of the Republican government to acknowledge how deep of 0:11:41.840 --> 0:11:44.280 trouble they were, in their union to render no allusion 0:11:44.280 --> 0:11:47.680 as to the stakes. By lunchtime on the nineteen Spain 0:11:47.720 --> 0:11:51.359 had gone through three prime ministers since breakfast, and Barcelona 0:11:51.400 --> 0:11:54.760 had defeated a coup. So what happens to the other 0:11:54.760 --> 0:11:58.520 prime ministers? Like okay, you be prime minister and you're like, oh, fun, 0:11:58.640 --> 0:12:00.240 now I don't want to be prime minister. Or they're 0:12:00.240 --> 0:12:03.439 getting killed by the fascists, or no, no, Madrid is 0:12:03.840 --> 0:12:07.120 very it's not very safe. It's safe. They basically your 0:12:07.160 --> 0:12:09.839 first guy. It's like, I've done funked up here. I 0:12:09.840 --> 0:12:12.000 should have seen this one coming, given that I was 0:12:12.000 --> 0:12:16.440 explicitly warned about it for weeks. He's like, peace, I'm out. 0:12:17.360 --> 0:12:20.320 Second guy pops in. He's like, don't worry, guys, we 0:12:20.360 --> 0:12:23.599 can fix this. What we need to do is call 0:12:23.840 --> 0:12:29.120 the call the general's talk it out. It's interesting, Yeah, 0:12:29.200 --> 0:12:31.560 give them just a just like a reason with them. 0:12:31.760 --> 0:12:35.839 And it's interesting because what happens is in that conversation, 0:12:35.920 --> 0:12:38.240 it's the fascist general. I think it's capable, the young know. 0:12:38.320 --> 0:12:41.240 He calls I can't remember good d maybe maybe good head. Anyway, 0:12:41.640 --> 0:12:44.600 it says like you have your people and I have mine. 0:12:45.240 --> 0:12:48.880 And in that moment, what's happening is a fascist general 0:12:48.920 --> 0:12:52.679 who is leading a coup is reminding an elected politician 0:12:53.240 --> 0:12:55.600 that he has an obligation to serve the people who 0:12:55.640 --> 0:12:59.400 elected him and and not just to make like unilateral 0:12:59.440 --> 0:13:06.080 compromises with fascists. Right, So that the what a country 0:13:06.120 --> 0:13:09.600 at a time at that moment, that second prime ministers 0:13:09.600 --> 0:13:12.080 also doomed. Right. So then we move on to number three. 0:13:12.920 --> 0:13:15.640 And at that point we opened up the armories to 0:13:15.640 --> 0:13:17.760 the working class, right, which is what they should have 0:13:17.800 --> 0:13:21.520 done earlier. In in every city where the working class 0:13:22.440 --> 0:13:25.560 is armed, the coup is defeated. In every city where 0:13:25.559 --> 0:13:29.480 it's not armed, the coup succeeds. And that doesn't have 0:13:29.480 --> 0:13:33.240 any ramifications for today. So keep going no, absolutely, none, no, 0:13:33.360 --> 0:13:35.520 and it's something that we can't learn from, so we 0:13:35.520 --> 0:13:40.600 shouldn't we shouldn't try. Um And obviously it's not direct parallel. 0:13:40.960 --> 0:13:44.200 There are some really interesting moments in this particular arming 0:13:44.240 --> 0:13:45.880 of the working class. One did I to come back 0:13:45.880 --> 0:13:49.000 to is that the there are the soldiers, right. It's 0:13:49.120 --> 0:13:51.160 obviously the weapons are in the hands of the military, 0:13:51.559 --> 0:13:53.600 and obviously the military has just done a coup, but 0:13:53.679 --> 0:13:55.440 not all the military has just done a coup. So 0:13:55.480 --> 0:13:58.400 you have some generals or colonels who are in charge 0:13:58.559 --> 0:14:04.520 of barracks, um who or armories, and they will be like, yeah, okay, 0:14:04.600 --> 0:14:06.360 I've got the order. That's what I'm going to do. 0:14:06.480 --> 0:14:08.320 I think it's who's kind of bullshit, like it hasn't 0:14:08.360 --> 0:14:11.280 succeeded yet, it might not succeed. Here are the rifles 0:14:11.400 --> 0:14:15.280 union members. But in Madrid you have another colonel who's 0:14:15.320 --> 0:14:19.280 a die hard cou coup guy, big big coup person, 0:14:20.280 --> 0:14:22.760 who is in control of the bolts of the rifles. UM. 0:14:23.080 --> 0:14:25.280 So like the rifle doesn't work without the bolt, right. 0:14:25.280 --> 0:14:27.760 The bolt is a bit like plugs a hole and 0:14:27.800 --> 0:14:31.160 makes a bullet go bang. I've explained that properly, right, Robert, 0:14:31.200 --> 0:14:34.560 that's a that's a technical terminology. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, 0:14:34.560 --> 0:14:37.280 it's just the piece that makes the gun go bang. Yeah. 0:14:37.320 --> 0:14:40.480 So the about critical to the functing the rifle held 0:14:40.560 --> 0:14:43.120 by another guy who turns out to be a fashion 0:14:43.760 --> 0:14:46.720 and so he doesn't issue them the bolts. So you 0:14:46.760 --> 0:14:49.360 have all these working class militiamen being like, how rifle 0:14:49.440 --> 0:14:53.960 work with no bolt? Just like entering the streets anyway, right, 0:14:54.000 --> 0:14:57.080 slapping on the bayonet. Now you have a pike. You 0:14:57.160 --> 0:15:00.840 have other people who have never operate to the rifle before. 0:15:00.920 --> 0:15:05.480 So like allegedly everyone's calling the Socialist Union headquarters in 0:15:05.640 --> 0:15:07.760 Madrid being do this, do that, and they're like, I 0:15:07.800 --> 0:15:10.040 can't hear ship. There's just hundreds of people behind me 0:15:10.120 --> 0:15:12.600 trying to operate the bolt on a bolt action rifle, 0:15:12.760 --> 0:15:15.280 trying to learn how to do this, and like they're 0:15:15.320 --> 0:15:18.920 taking their newsprint from their union newspaper right and trying 0:15:18.920 --> 0:15:21.720 to wipe the cosmoline off the rifles because they've been 0:15:21.760 --> 0:15:25.320 in like deep storage. It's very evocative scene, like you 0:15:25.320 --> 0:15:27.520 can smell it, you can hear it of these people 0:15:27.560 --> 0:15:30.320 being like, well we never used these before. They've been 0:15:30.320 --> 0:15:32.440 a deep storage for a long time. They're covered in Greece, 0:15:32.440 --> 0:15:36.440 but fuck it, like it's now or never. Yeah, and 0:15:36.720 --> 0:15:39.320 it was. Right. So if we go back to what 0:15:39.360 --> 0:15:42.640 happened in Barcelona, they had radios in public places, right, 0:15:42.640 --> 0:15:45.880 it is very common whole books about how Nazis used radios, 0:15:45.880 --> 0:15:48.440 but it's common in the thirties parts of the city. 0:15:48.680 --> 0:15:52.280 The paving stones had barely been relayed from October fighting. 0:15:52.680 --> 0:15:55.600 Then they were quickly pulled up again. Barricades were constructed, 0:15:56.080 --> 0:15:59.040 old rifles and pistols, and the bombs that the anarchists 0:15:59.040 --> 0:16:01.440 particularly love, would dragged out of the bottom of drawers. 0:16:03.320 --> 0:16:11.440 These people fucking love throwing bombs, like the just the Yeah, 0:16:11.440 --> 0:16:13.200 there there's a there's a lady later on in the 0:16:13.200 --> 0:16:15.840 war called rosal Ladina Mitra like Rows of the Dynamiter 0:16:16.000 --> 0:16:19.000 who who just like it becomes the legend right for 0:16:19.120 --> 0:16:25.560 just throwing dynamite fascists. Yeah, Like, there's so much awesome 0:16:25.600 --> 0:16:29.800 ship that happens that gets lost because ultimately, like Hitler 0:16:29.880 --> 0:16:33.720 and Mussolini win the Spanish Civil War basically, right spoiler. Yeah, 0:16:34.120 --> 0:16:38.040 So actually that night before the before the troops march 0:16:38.120 --> 0:16:40.520 on the city, the u g T, the Socialist control 0:16:40.560 --> 0:16:44.040 the dock union, the dock workers union, and they're like, hey, 0:16:44.080 --> 0:16:46.200 hang on, I'm pretty sure there's a ship in the 0:16:46.200 --> 0:16:49.120 harbor that has dynamite on it. Let's raid it. So 0:16:49.160 --> 0:16:52.920 they raid the ship, okay, steal the dynamite and drive 0:16:53.000 --> 0:16:56.560 through the city, distributing it to union members who spend 0:16:56.600 --> 0:17:00.840 the entire night making bonds. I'm sure that that went 0:17:00.880 --> 0:17:03.520 badly for several of them, but yeah, it went Badies 0:17:03.560 --> 0:17:08.119 of fascist too, but well yeah, almost undoubtedly. Uh, Like 0:17:08.920 --> 0:17:10.439 Robert and I have talked to some people in some 0:17:10.440 --> 0:17:14.720 other contexts who have made homemade bonds, and I don't smoke. 0:17:14.960 --> 0:17:16.840 It's what I will say, do not smoke if you're 0:17:16.920 --> 0:17:20.560 in the process of making bombs or explosives whatever. That's 0:17:20.560 --> 0:17:22.400 the same people say that you can't smoke whirer fuel 0:17:22.440 --> 0:17:25.800 in up your car. Yeah, cowards, Yeah, you go down 0:17:25.880 --> 0:17:31.320 like a chat. Yeah, that's my message to you. The 0:17:31.359 --> 0:17:33.440 other thing they did was they put on like their mono, 0:17:33.600 --> 0:17:36.479 so like a mono is like a like a onesie, right, 0:17:36.560 --> 0:17:38.879 like an overall blue mono was kind of the militia 0:17:38.960 --> 0:17:41.399 uniform because they weren't an army. They were just working 0:17:41.400 --> 0:17:44.159 class people who worked at factories who are not taking 0:17:44.200 --> 0:17:47.320 any ship from the army that day, and they put 0:17:47.359 --> 0:17:49.240 on their little union hats, which you can see in 0:17:49.280 --> 0:17:53.280 all the photos. They look very cool, very quaint um. 0:17:53.320 --> 0:17:56.480 So to understand why the conflict they fought that day began, 0:17:56.880 --> 0:17:59.159 it's probably beyond the scope of this podcast, and to 0:17:59.280 --> 0:18:01.720 understand where did the way it did will infuriate just 0:18:01.800 --> 0:18:04.240 about everyone listening, which is fine, but we don't have 0:18:04.240 --> 0:18:07.360 all day. Okay. If you want to know more about 0:18:07.400 --> 0:18:09.920 some of the people involved, kill Joy's podcast and the 0:18:09.960 --> 0:18:13.520 Spanic Anarchist is a great place to start. What. Yeah, 0:18:13.960 --> 0:18:17.120 I thought it was wonderful to check that out. Yeah 0:18:17.200 --> 0:18:20.760 I do. Yeah, great podcast, really great. I love it. 0:18:21.240 --> 0:18:26.360 So if you listened to look at that, Yeah, yep, 0:18:26.560 --> 0:18:29.440 you should like and subscribe. Is that? Is that still 0:18:29.440 --> 0:18:37.480 the thing? Cool people who did? Yeah? I think I've 0:18:37.520 --> 0:18:41.640 heard of that. Yeah. The host is brilliant. Yeah, she's amazing. 0:18:43.000 --> 0:18:45.800 I'm trying to make the clever, but instead I'm probably blushing. 0:18:48.640 --> 0:18:51.720 You deserve. Oh okay, Yeah, if you want to read 0:18:51.760 --> 0:18:53.439 some books, I'm going to list some books at the end, 0:18:53.640 --> 0:18:56.679 probably far too many because this is my ship, but 0:18:58.119 --> 0:19:02.040 I've more books written about the SPA, A civil war then, um, well, 0:19:02.040 --> 0:19:04.199 I guess war in general, but I think anarchists have 0:19:04.240 --> 0:19:07.600 written more about the Spanish Civil War, though maybe undoubtedly 0:19:08.080 --> 0:19:11.959 anything else combined. Yeah, the the device we are speaking 0:19:12.000 --> 0:19:15.800 on is currently propped up on a large stack of them, 0:19:15.800 --> 0:19:24.880 actually most of my material possessions. It's yeah, it's nice. 0:19:24.920 --> 0:19:28.320 It's the way your life should be. It's I've written 0:19:28.359 --> 0:19:33.119 one to uh and it's heinously expensive, but you know, 0:19:33.400 --> 0:19:36.880 I'm happy with it. If if you struggle to obtain 0:19:36.920 --> 0:19:41.760 it materially, please just shoot me a direct message, unless 0:19:41.880 --> 0:19:44.320 you kind of have some kind of gross disagreement because 0:19:44.320 --> 0:19:48.959 you're fascist or something, in which case please don't bother. Um. Okay, 0:19:49.480 --> 0:19:50.560 I don't know how you got this far. If you 0:19:50.600 --> 0:19:56.320 are a fascist, I guess yeah, yeah, yeah, I probably 0:19:56.359 --> 0:20:00.600 have some no uh funk off Nazi. I guess. I 0:20:00.640 --> 0:20:03.560 think I think fewer people hate listen. I okay, my 0:20:03.680 --> 0:20:05.320 theory I know that we wanted to hear. My theory 0:20:05.320 --> 0:20:10.920 about why podcasting to um is because it's harder. People 0:20:11.000 --> 0:20:13.040 don't have the attention span to hate listen the same 0:20:13.080 --> 0:20:16.040 way that they can like hate skim or like hate 0:20:16.080 --> 0:20:19.520 read tweets and reply. And so I've made a lot 0:20:19.560 --> 0:20:21.560 of different media and a lot of different ways over 0:20:21.600 --> 0:20:25.320 the past couple of decades, and I get less hate 0:20:25.320 --> 0:20:32.040 mail about podcasts than most other forms. Um. So that's 0:20:32.080 --> 0:20:36.520 my theory, is that people podcast because no one wants 0:20:36.560 --> 0:20:39.520 to sit there and like hate listen. I mean people 0:20:39.560 --> 0:20:41.480 like hate listening to clips. That's why we all listen 0:20:41.520 --> 0:20:43.439 to those like clip shows where they take the right 0:20:43.440 --> 0:20:46.800 wing person and you know, show them saying something that 0:20:46.840 --> 0:20:49.720 we all I think it's not an intelligent thing to say, 0:20:49.760 --> 0:20:52.960 and then we laugh or whatever. But so anyway, if 0:20:52.960 --> 0:20:55.160 you're the person who has been put on this earth 0:20:55.600 --> 0:20:58.800 to hate listen to, it could happen here in order 0:20:58.880 --> 0:21:03.359 to I don't know, um, make fun of it to 0:21:03.400 --> 0:21:08.119 your audience. Um, thanks for the lessons, I guess, I 0:21:08.160 --> 0:21:12.080 don't know. Yeah, yeah, we're getting that that sweet revenue. 0:21:12.720 --> 0:21:17.240 I know, where does that revenue come from? It just appears. 0:21:17.320 --> 0:21:20.960 It's like like liking, It grows on the side of 0:21:21.000 --> 0:21:26.080 a wet building. It doesn't come from ads. Ads do 0:21:26.240 --> 0:21:28.360 organic could grow a lot a lot like liking. They 0:21:28.400 --> 0:21:32.320 just start showing up, um and replicating we really have 0:21:32.359 --> 0:21:35.480 no choice. But yeah, anyway, Yeah, it's a fact of nature. 0:21:36.119 --> 0:21:37.399 If you have that person, I will say that my 0:21:37.440 --> 0:21:42.240 messages stop being a Nazi. That's that's me being polite. 0:21:42.960 --> 0:21:46.320 On the night of some assault Guards members, some elite 0:21:46.359 --> 0:21:50.520 paramilitary police force it was founded by and sometimes mostly 0:21:50.520 --> 0:21:54.000 loyal to the Republic, went against your their officers has 0:21:54.000 --> 0:21:56.879 sneaked rifles out to members of the c NT an 0:21:56.880 --> 0:22:01.760 anarchist union. And that's pretty that's pretty based. It's the 0:22:01.840 --> 0:22:04.439 one day, as you will learn, this is the one 0:22:04.520 --> 0:22:07.920 day all cops took off from being bastards. Some of them, 0:22:08.160 --> 0:22:10.200 it turns out, are capable of doing the right thing, 0:22:10.400 --> 0:22:14.679 or were I should say, Yeah, of corps were handing 0:22:14.680 --> 0:22:18.399 out rifles to anarchist the that would be not a 0:22:18.440 --> 0:22:23.280 parallel that I can easily imagine in the modern context. Yes, yeah, 0:22:23.480 --> 0:22:25.680 somewhat unique. Right. It doesn't mean that these people had 0:22:25.680 --> 0:22:28.680 not spent the past decades killing each other. It does 0:22:28.760 --> 0:22:30.960 not mean that they would not return to doing so 0:22:31.200 --> 0:22:35.600 within less than a year. But just for a day, 0:22:35.640 --> 0:22:41.720 everything was hunky dorry. And it's leftist Christmas. Yes, this 0:22:41.800 --> 0:22:44.240 pretty yeah, this more or less is leftist Christmas, like 0:22:44.920 --> 0:22:48.560 because there's even like there's gifts. They call them proletarian 0:22:48.640 --> 0:22:53.360 shopping trips um. But what they do is requisition merchandise 0:22:53.560 --> 0:22:57.760 from stores and uh and distributed to people who need it. 0:22:57.920 --> 0:23:00.359 Are you just are you referring to armed rubbery? Is 0:23:00.400 --> 0:23:04.160 that that's a different thing, that was only armed robbery. 0:23:04.200 --> 0:23:08.920 If somebody tries to fight back shopping with a gun, 0:23:09.840 --> 0:23:12.600 that's it. And what if there is no law, is 0:23:12.640 --> 0:23:15.840 it really a crime? M hmmm. I don't know, no one, 0:23:16.040 --> 0:23:18.520 No one can say I will say that they only 0:23:18.640 --> 0:23:22.360 it seems like they only robbed the shopkeepers who were turds, 0:23:23.800 --> 0:23:26.720 people who like lent a lot of money at a 0:23:26.760 --> 0:23:30.119 very high interest rate, things like that in these predetorian 0:23:30.160 --> 0:23:34.600 shopping trips, which I'm not being against what happened. I'm 0:23:34.640 --> 0:23:39.959 just I'm stripping away some of the niceties. Yeah, if 0:23:40.000 --> 0:23:42.600 people hadn't gathered, they weren't picking up when I was 0:23:42.600 --> 0:23:44.600 putting down. Yes, it is going into a shop with 0:23:44.640 --> 0:23:46.639 guns and taking things and giving them to people who 0:23:46.720 --> 0:23:49.880 need them. Whether or not that is bad. Who can 0:23:49.920 --> 0:23:56.560 say Robin Hood, famous villain in history. Yeah that's right, Yeah, 0:23:56.640 --> 0:23:59.800 bad bad dude. Sheriff of Nottingham, on the other hand, 0:24:00.000 --> 0:24:04.720 would have been big into crypto. I'm sure all around 0:24:04.840 --> 0:24:07.960 legend so when I said if there is no law, 0:24:08.000 --> 0:24:11.560 I wasn't really joking. Like at this point Luis Compans, 0:24:11.880 --> 0:24:16.160 who's a Catalan leader. He's a liberal leftist politician, and 0:24:16.480 --> 0:24:18.960 earlier that evening he'd refused to open the armories. He 0:24:19.040 --> 0:24:22.719 realizes that things are out of his control, and so 0:24:22.800 --> 0:24:25.320 he sets off for a walk and he walks down 0:24:25.359 --> 0:24:27.359 the Rambler. Right. If you've been to Barcelona, it's this 0:24:27.440 --> 0:24:30.119 big old street now it's full of a kind of 0:24:30.119 --> 0:24:33.000 restaurants to have photographs on their menus so that German 0:24:33.040 --> 0:24:36.320 people can understand what they're going to eat um, which 0:24:36.320 --> 0:24:39.520 is much of Barcelona and American people. But yeah, people 0:24:39.560 --> 0:24:42.240 who don't speak Catalan or Spanish who go to Barcelona 0:24:42.640 --> 0:24:44.760 can eat very well there for lots of money. M 0:24:44.960 --> 0:24:46.840 if you've been on holiday, you've probably been there. I 0:24:46.840 --> 0:24:50.840 did not eat very well in Barcelona, really. I had 0:24:50.880 --> 0:24:53.720 almost no money and was vegan, and my Spanish there's 0:24:53.800 --> 0:24:56.600 more in my coutoy is non existent, so I mostly 0:24:56.640 --> 0:25:00.800 were ung out and cooked pasta. There are not a 0:25:00.840 --> 0:25:03.080 lot of cities I've been to where it's harder to 0:25:03.119 --> 0:25:06.640 eat vegan than Barcelona. That is, that is a challenge. 0:25:06.880 --> 0:25:12.639 Maybe Belgrade where where the national dishes thirty pounds of 0:25:12.680 --> 0:25:18.280 meat on a plate. Yeah, Sophia, Nos Sophia, so I 0:25:18.680 --> 0:25:21.879 can't remember to pronounced the name of the capital of Bulgaria. 0:25:22.520 --> 0:25:24.800 Um also a hard place to eat vegan. That was 0:25:24.840 --> 0:25:28.640 hard for me. Yeah, that does not surprise me. Yea, yeah, yeah, 0:25:28.840 --> 0:25:32.400 surprise me. It's a big part of the catle In cuisine. 0:25:32.400 --> 0:25:34.159 You'll be like, oh, yeah, I'm having some lentils, and 0:25:34.160 --> 0:25:36.400 then they'll be like, psych, there's a pig in here. 0:25:37.760 --> 0:25:40.760 We put a whole fucking pig in this thing. We 0:25:40.800 --> 0:25:44.520 did reverse vegan. We made lintels out of pig. I 0:25:44.600 --> 0:25:49.159 just ate everywhere I go. You can crush in falafel. 0:25:49.240 --> 0:25:52.040 And one of the Catalan national dissues is called kappi potta, 0:25:52.359 --> 0:25:57.200 which means head and foot because those are the ingredients 0:25:58.440 --> 0:26:00.359 and it's it's a bit of a pig that no 0:26:00.400 --> 0:26:05.439 one else wanted. One of the American national dishes is 0:26:05.560 --> 0:26:08.080 also the head and feet of the face of a pig, 0:26:08.119 --> 0:26:10.520 but they call it a hot dog. At least the 0:26:10.600 --> 0:26:14.080 Catalans are honest about it, that's true. But yeah, if 0:26:14.080 --> 0:26:16.080 the it's better now to eat vegan, I'm vegan, and 0:26:16.119 --> 0:26:21.760 I was there in have to move among the right circles. 0:26:22.480 --> 0:26:26.320 But yeah, on the rambler it would be hard. And 0:26:27.000 --> 0:26:29.960 so that night, companies, he's walking down the rambler. He's 0:26:29.960 --> 0:26:31.400 got his hat across his face so no one could 0:26:31.400 --> 0:26:33.119 see him, and he's pulled up his color kind of 0:26:33.160 --> 0:26:36.720 like an old timey private eye, and up and down 0:26:36.880 --> 0:26:41.480 the rambler. Anarchists and socialists are stealing cars and welding 0:26:41.560 --> 0:26:46.080 armor plates to the front of them. Yes, yes, another 0:26:46.200 --> 0:26:50.239 time honored anarchist tradition. Yeah. King of war is the 0:26:50.280 --> 0:26:54.080 improvised technical And so what they do here is, well 0:26:54.160 --> 0:26:58.320 these steel plates, right, and then they write the name 0:26:58.359 --> 0:27:00.280 of the union on top, just so people and know 0:27:00.320 --> 0:27:02.919 who's killing them on so they could keep track of 0:27:02.920 --> 0:27:06.680 their stolen cars. Yeah. Yeah, that's right, Like you don't 0:27:06.720 --> 0:27:10.760 want anyone stealing your stolen car. Yeah yeah. There comes 0:27:10.760 --> 0:27:13.760 a point in the next couple of weeks where some 0:27:13.840 --> 0:27:19.240 of the more ideologically committed anarchists will stop or take 0:27:19.280 --> 0:27:23.280 down traffic signals because they feel they're an unwarranted restriction 0:27:23.320 --> 0:27:28.560 on individual liberty. Those Twitter discourse Yeah yeah, get on 0:27:28.600 --> 0:27:32.760 that tank you Yes, time was a flat circle. Yeah, 0:27:32.920 --> 0:27:35.880 it's it's very funny. Um, I bet they. I bet 0:27:35.920 --> 0:27:38.359 there were was a contingent of them that were taking 0:27:38.400 --> 0:27:47.879 down libraries to for gate keeping knowledge. Libraries. Libraries are 0:27:47.960 --> 0:27:53.320 pig prisons, book pigs. Yeah, yeah, they burned them, just 0:27:53.400 --> 0:27:55.320 in a class of anarchist fashion. Or we all know 0:27:55.359 --> 0:27:57.719 that libraries are better served under a free market system 0:27:57.760 --> 0:28:01.119 like that. One guy tweeted, Yes, Amazon should run the 0:28:01.160 --> 0:28:04.640 library and every book should cost you ten dollars. Yep, 0:28:04.800 --> 0:28:07.920 that's uh, that's the only way we can grow as 0:28:07.920 --> 0:28:10.840 a society. And if you don't like it, well something 0:28:10.880 --> 0:28:13.320 in front of your truck. Also, if you have an 0:28:13.400 --> 0:28:16.679 idea that's based on a book and Amazon owns the copyright, 0:28:16.720 --> 0:28:18.840 they now own the idea. That's the only thing that's fair. 0:28:19.240 --> 0:28:23.600 No thinking without proper copy right, Is it okay to 0:28:23.680 --> 0:28:27.120 use words if Jeffrey Bezos already owned words? No? Does 0:28:27.160 --> 0:28:28.800 that mean that we're going to be fighting the next 0:28:29.119 --> 0:28:33.359 one of these situations with instead of spray painting CNT, 0:28:33.800 --> 0:28:36.959 someone's gonna come by and spray paint Amazon Basics onto 0:28:37.000 --> 0:28:40.400 them with a third chase. I'm doing that tonight. I 0:28:40.400 --> 0:28:44.680 would be up armoring my trucks as soon as we're finished. Yeah, 0:28:44.960 --> 0:28:48.040 and spray painting Amazon basics and then just going to 0:28:48.080 --> 0:28:51.240 the beach after that and actually what they spraint painted 0:28:51.240 --> 0:28:53.320 on the There was CNT, there was U g T, 0:28:53.640 --> 0:28:58.200 there was FI. These are C and T Confederate, your 0:28:58.280 --> 0:29:01.560 National de Trabajo Right Nation, nor Labor confederation. This is 0:29:01.560 --> 0:29:08.560 an anarcho Syndicalist Union uh PHI federon Anarki barrier is 0:29:08.600 --> 0:29:12.440 the Iberian Anarchist Federation. They're a group within the c 0:29:12.640 --> 0:29:18.400 NT that is more committed to a hardline, illogical ideological anarchism. 0:29:18.760 --> 0:29:22.800 The hug Tier or Socialist Union. You have other groups 0:29:22.840 --> 0:29:25.320 to the pum is probably any other one you need 0:29:25.360 --> 0:29:28.800 to know. They are not trotsky It's Trotskyites. Anyone who 0:29:28.800 --> 0:29:30.960 tells you they are either doesn't know what they're talking 0:29:30.960 --> 0:29:34.080 about or is consciously misleading you. And they were in 0:29:34.200 --> 0:29:36.960 open beef with trotsky right like that they are. They 0:29:36.960 --> 0:29:41.800 are writing letters to trotsky beefing about whether they should exist, 0:29:42.600 --> 0:29:46.680 which trotsky Is is a no on that question. So yeah, 0:29:46.720 --> 0:29:48.680 they're not trotsky As. They just get called trotsky Is 0:29:48.720 --> 0:29:51.240 by Stylinists because everyone who they don't like is a Stylinist. 0:29:51.320 --> 0:29:56.560 Right that they are anti Stylinist Marxists. Um, that's what 0:29:56.560 --> 0:30:01.320 I will call them. What some folks do is they 0:30:01.360 --> 0:30:05.880 paint you HP on top of their cars. You nidos 0:30:06.160 --> 0:30:11.720 armanos proletarios. I think it stands for United Proletarian Siblings, 0:30:11.760 --> 0:30:16.400 I guess. And that's important, right, because these groups had 0:30:16.480 --> 0:30:19.600 been fighting among themselves and with each other for a 0:30:19.720 --> 0:30:25.080 very long time and having like what appeared today to 0:30:25.080 --> 0:30:28.560 be kind of comical beefs about inconsequential things, but they 0:30:28.560 --> 0:30:31.360 were important and then you know, this ideological commitment is 0:30:31.360 --> 0:30:34.240 what gets them through this period of time. But the 0:30:34.400 --> 0:30:38.840 uh P comes from a Studius where anarchists and socialists 0:30:38.920 --> 0:30:42.800 had come together to fight against the state rank to 0:30:42.840 --> 0:30:46.320 fight as part of a minor strike minors particular love 0:30:46.360 --> 0:30:50.920 for dynamite, by the way, that's how they, yeah, kings 0:30:50.960 --> 0:30:53.720 of the dynamite throw that, that's how they dealt with 0:30:53.720 --> 0:30:57.120 the local garrison. Really and actually the first use of 0:30:57.120 --> 0:31:01.440 a combat helicopter was against the Popular Front, the UHP 0:31:01.640 --> 0:31:05.840 in Asturius, and that strike was eventually put down by 0:31:05.880 --> 0:31:09.080 one in Francisco Franco, who will learn about later. Nice guy, 0:31:09.440 --> 0:31:15.280 No problems with him. That's a lie. Yeah, shocking, I 0:31:15.320 --> 0:31:17.760 know it turns out to be a total turd of 0:31:17.760 --> 0:31:22.080 a human being. But he was, wasn't he? Um, Oh no, 0:31:22.160 --> 0:31:24.600 I'm going down a rabbit hole. Wasn't he like some 0:31:24.720 --> 0:31:27.360 sort of vaguely? Wasn't he like a right wing syndiclaus 0:31:27.440 --> 0:31:30.560 for a while? Yeah, he had all kinds of sort of. 0:31:30.960 --> 0:31:33.480 I don't think Franco had any convinced political views other 0:31:33.520 --> 0:31:35.240 than like that he wanted to be in charge. But yes, 0:31:35.280 --> 0:31:39.600 he was a radical scendic list I said, right wing 0:31:39.640 --> 0:31:43.360 syndiciclast but yeah, no, but so a number of officers 0:31:43.360 --> 0:31:45.400 I don't know if Franco was with, but there were 0:31:45.440 --> 0:31:49.280 like a group called the Party who Okay, I see, 0:31:49.800 --> 0:31:51.160 I'm not sure if Franco was one, now that I 0:31:51.200 --> 0:31:52.760 think about it. I try not to learn too much 0:31:52.760 --> 0:31:56.400 about the person of Francisco Franco, because he is a turd. 0:31:57.680 --> 0:31:59.920 He he does pivot, and he pivots when he's in power, 0:32:00.120 --> 0:32:03.440 right from like a soon a more totalitarian project to 0:32:03.520 --> 0:32:09.840 this national Catholic project to sort of Yeah, he's a 0:32:09.880 --> 0:32:13.200 problematic dude with yeah, with no clear ideology of than 0:32:13.240 --> 0:32:14.560 he should be in power, and he doesn't care who 0:32:14.560 --> 0:32:17.680 he has to roll over to get there. Um, that's 0:32:17.680 --> 0:32:21.239 a common political ideology, it is. Yeah, it pops up 0:32:21.240 --> 0:32:23.960 a lot on the right, something something there with dudes 0:32:24.000 --> 0:32:26.880 on the right that maybe we should think about. No, 0:32:27.040 --> 0:32:29.880 it's never happened again, and never in this country of course, 0:32:30.560 --> 0:32:35.480 fortunately saying it could never happen right where we are. Yeah, 0:32:35.560 --> 0:32:40.560 that's not in my backyard, that's the right. Yeah, America 0:32:40.680 --> 0:32:52.040 is different, I think as the subtitle, Okay, so sorry, no, no, 0:32:52.080 --> 0:32:57.320 I'm just sad. Anyway, the people in Barcelona that day 0:32:57.400 --> 0:32:59.800 were even more numerous and diverse, and the already bustling 0:33:00.040 --> 0:33:03.280 he was used to. The nineteen July was slated to 0:33:03.280 --> 0:33:05.720 be the start of the largest anti fascist spectacle the 0:33:05.720 --> 0:33:08.800 world have ever seen. That's a direct quote from a 0:33:08.880 --> 0:33:12.960 public the article about the Popular Olympics. Right, as I said, 0:33:13.120 --> 0:33:15.280 these games aim to show the strengths of the popular 0:33:15.360 --> 0:33:17.840 front with a series of events. Some of those event 0:33:17.880 --> 0:33:21.120 to the ones you might expect, But some of these 0:33:21.120 --> 0:33:24.560 events were designed to reward nations with a healthy working 0:33:24.600 --> 0:33:28.080 class rather than nations with a few exceptional athletes. Right, 0:33:28.160 --> 0:33:32.080 So we look at the Olympics today, having one or 0:33:32.120 --> 0:33:35.320 two exceptional athletes, especially in certain areas, can like vault 0:33:35.320 --> 0:33:38.760 you to the top of the medal table. Right. Medal table, 0:33:38.800 --> 0:33:44.320 of course, invented by the Nazis to illustrate eugenics. Uh 0:33:44.640 --> 0:33:47.840 wold really yeah yeah. Before most six there was no 0:33:47.880 --> 0:33:51.520 Olympics table. Uh, not in the fable way that we 0:33:51.600 --> 0:33:53.920 see it now. So much of the pageantry that we 0:33:53.960 --> 0:33:58.320 associate with the Olympic Games was invented by Carl D. 0:33:58.520 --> 0:34:03.240 M uh the torch relay, the parade of flags in 0:34:03.280 --> 0:34:08.560 the opening ceremony, like, yeah, the the Olympics are fucking Nuremberg, 0:34:09.040 --> 0:34:12.480 like with the rainbow rings. It's wild how much of 0:34:12.520 --> 0:34:16.839 that ship is cribs straight from Nazi pageantry? Oh? Um. 0:34:17.320 --> 0:34:19.120 The book called The Nazi Game is pretty good on 0:34:19.160 --> 0:34:21.040 that if you want to read it. Um. Lots of 0:34:21.080 --> 0:34:24.400 books about the thirty six Olympics, But yeah, um, I 0:34:24.400 --> 0:34:28.279 should just acknowledge that the the International Olympic Committee did 0:34:28.280 --> 0:34:33.520 fund a lot of my research for reasons that maybe 0:34:33.600 --> 0:34:37.040 becoming clear, have since ceased. Also, Clay didn't think I 0:34:37.040 --> 0:34:41.080 was very good, I guess. But anyway, institution that has 0:34:41.440 --> 0:34:43.560 some ship to deal with that it hasn't dealt with, 0:34:43.800 --> 0:34:47.200 I will say, um. And yet it was on its 0:34:47.200 --> 0:34:51.479 bullshit heavily in right. Um, so one of the things 0:34:51.480 --> 0:34:53.640 they did at the popular Olympics was they had a 0:34:53.760 --> 0:34:57.319 ten by hundred meter relay. And it's just like, I 0:34:57.320 --> 0:34:59.799 don't know if the Americans have school sports days. Yes, 0:35:00.280 --> 0:35:03.440 I try to Why I I don't remember anything about 0:35:03.840 --> 0:35:09.120 public school sporting events. Okay, at the risk of sort 0:35:09.120 --> 0:35:13.840 of unveiling more trauma, what happens here, now, that's fine, Okay. 0:35:15.120 --> 0:35:17.759 What happens here is that, uh, you line up right 0:35:17.800 --> 0:35:20.080 in groups of five and you just run back and forth, 0:35:20.880 --> 0:35:23.680 passing a bat on to each other, and much like 0:35:23.719 --> 0:35:25.720 school sport today, with the caveat being that the people 0:35:25.760 --> 0:35:28.680 in this event had to already be entered in other 0:35:28.800 --> 0:35:32.800 events at the games, and so like you just get 0:35:33.040 --> 0:35:36.960 like weightlifters, and there was a chess event at the games, right, 0:35:37.000 --> 0:35:39.920 So you get the chess athletes and they're just hauling 0:35:39.960 --> 0:35:42.960 as as fast as their chess playing legs can carry 0:35:42.960 --> 0:35:47.319 them back and forth to prove the like superior health 0:35:47.360 --> 0:35:53.719 of their nation's working class. Think chess chess leads, chess 0:35:53.960 --> 0:35:57.319 chess leads, chess leads. Yeah, thanks, yeah, I really say 0:35:57.360 --> 0:36:02.239 with that one. Yeah, you pulled it back out of you. M. Yeah, 0:36:02.560 --> 0:36:06.239 they didn't have any athletes. Sadly, Yeah, they did have 0:36:06.239 --> 0:36:08.719 people who built human castle, so it's another event. And 0:36:09.640 --> 0:36:12.400 really wait wait wait wait a castle made out of humans? 0:36:12.880 --> 0:36:15.640 Whoa wait, you are not familiar with cash down as 0:36:15.760 --> 0:36:18.600 the like the the Great Catholic and tradition of building 0:36:18.640 --> 0:36:25.600 human towers. No, no, okay, like pivot. Uh it's fucked now. 0:36:26.320 --> 0:36:29.400 One of my friends wrote her PhD on these uh 0:36:29.800 --> 0:36:35.040 about that they just made up? Just now listen, okay, 0:36:35.040 --> 0:36:37.960 A you can write your history PhD about literally anything, 0:36:38.120 --> 0:36:40.120 as long as no one else has written it before. 0:36:39.960 --> 0:36:46.640 The scene a quan history PhD s And I wrote 0:36:46.640 --> 0:36:49.000 my PhD about the anti for Olympics, right, I wrote 0:36:49.040 --> 0:36:54.799 my master's about predatarian shopping trips. Uh that's cool, yeah, 0:36:54.960 --> 0:37:00.279 I thought so um at the time, the yes, so Cashel. Right, 0:37:00.320 --> 0:37:02.520 you get your people at the bottom, right, and they 0:37:02.840 --> 0:37:04.600 sort of wrap a ribbon around their waist and then 0:37:05.040 --> 0:37:07.840 they often bite the corners of their shirt. I'm aware 0:37:07.840 --> 0:37:10.080 that I'm biting my shirt and this is mainly an 0:37:10.080 --> 0:37:14.480 audio medium. But they'll wrap their hands over the other people, right, 0:37:15.000 --> 0:37:17.839 men and women, non binding people. I'm sure to form 0:37:17.880 --> 0:37:20.280 a big old circle. And then the next layer climb 0:37:20.440 --> 0:37:22.480 up them right and stand on top of them. There's 0:37:22.480 --> 0:37:25.239 slightly fewer people, and the people get smaller, and the 0:37:25.360 --> 0:37:28.279 layers have fewer people in them, like concentric circles. Right 0:37:28.320 --> 0:37:31.160 as you get higher and higher, and then a small 0:37:31.280 --> 0:37:34.400 child wearing always a horse riding helmet for reasons that 0:37:34.440 --> 0:37:38.040 I'm not entirely clear, ascends and this ship is high 0:37:38.200 --> 0:37:40.680 like if you're standing on your balcony, like you are 0:37:40.760 --> 0:37:44.480 eye to eye with this fucking toddler who climbs up 0:37:44.520 --> 0:37:47.520 the top, get to the top like arm in the air, 0:37:47.600 --> 0:37:51.560 and then climbs back down. And these groups people do 0:37:52.600 --> 0:37:56.439 people do this all the time. Yeah, Look, American's national 0:37:56.440 --> 0:37:59.239 sport is is this thing where like young young men 0:37:59.239 --> 0:38:01.680 give each other brain damage. So, oh, I'm not anti this, 0:38:01.880 --> 0:38:05.879 and I'm just well, I'm actually impressed by it because 0:38:05.880 --> 0:38:09.040 we do the human pyramid thing, which is the same thing. 0:38:09.080 --> 0:38:12.360 All they're not nearly as impressive or interesting. No, I 0:38:12.480 --> 0:38:16.040 check out castas the cool thing about them as they 0:38:16.040 --> 0:38:19.960 exist within communities, right, these colds, these groups of castodiers 0:38:20.000 --> 0:38:23.560 are groups of people who do this from a neighborhood, right, 0:38:23.600 --> 0:38:26.160 so that they'll all be from a certain town, like 0:38:26.360 --> 0:38:29.960 the Talagona group was the one near me and my friends. 0:38:30.000 --> 0:38:33.359 Dissertation Ida reports a name, you can probably look it up. 0:38:35.120 --> 0:38:37.600 It was about like how this this practice has been 0:38:37.640 --> 0:38:44.080 integrated into incorporating migrants into Catalan us, right, like Catalan 0:38:44.200 --> 0:38:47.480 identity by being again come and come and stand on 0:38:47.640 --> 0:38:49.719 us or be stood on by us, and you two 0:38:49.760 --> 0:38:53.440 can be Catalan. Oh that seems like that would yeah, 0:38:53.480 --> 0:38:56.120 that would bring a community closer together into a heap 0:38:56.560 --> 0:38:59.160 on the ground. Yeah, and it has all kinds of 0:38:59.160 --> 0:39:01.600 other uses, right, cat stuck up a tree, just call 0:39:01.680 --> 0:39:06.120 those guys. Yeah, I want a rubber house. Yeah. Famously 0:39:06.200 --> 0:39:10.759 ladders a band in Catalonia because there for cowards. Yeah yeah, 0:39:10.880 --> 0:39:13.759 just all day casteus. But yeah, this was part of 0:39:13.760 --> 0:39:17.399 the popular Olympics, right, human castles. I'm glad we went 0:39:17.440 --> 0:39:20.520 there for everyone who didn't know. People googling that. It's 0:39:20.560 --> 0:39:24.479 part of the u n like United Nations Protected Human 0:39:24.520 --> 0:39:28.120 Patrimony or something like. It's it's it's a bit important. 0:39:28.560 --> 0:39:30.480 So do you ever just like make up stuff to 0:39:30.520 --> 0:39:33.880 tell Americans about and then we believe you because you 0:39:33.920 --> 0:39:37.600 have an accent? I mean we have an accent too, sure, 0:39:37.680 --> 0:39:40.160 but like yeah, yeah, yeah, Luckily your accents are all 0:39:40.400 --> 0:39:48.680 neutral and vanilla. Yeah exactly, voice yeah yeah, um uh no, 0:39:48.960 --> 0:39:50.440 I did. I think I've told this story on the 0:39:50.440 --> 0:39:53.680 internet before, but one time I was giving a talk 0:39:53.719 --> 0:39:56.319 about diabetes and the bronx and this I asked if 0:39:56.320 --> 0:39:59.160 this kid wanted to ask the kids they wanted to 0:39:59.160 --> 0:40:01.960 ask any questions, and young women itching to ask a 0:40:02.040 --> 0:40:05.520 question just goes, do you guys really have pies with 0:40:05.640 --> 0:40:10.720 meeting them? Like if she didn't misled her whole life, 0:40:11.000 --> 0:40:14.680 I was able to confirm that for her, I savory 0:40:14.680 --> 0:40:16.440 pies like fucked me up. When I was in France, 0:40:16.440 --> 0:40:19.160 I was completely unprepared for the existence of these things. 0:40:19.480 --> 0:40:22.000 I volunteered to cook for a bunch of um, a 0:40:22.000 --> 0:40:24.440 bunch of activists who are busy having their meeting, and 0:40:24.480 --> 0:40:25.880 I was like, yeah, sure, I'll come cook for you. 0:40:26.120 --> 0:40:27.560 And I figured I would just like show up and 0:40:27.800 --> 0:40:31.960 make pasta burritos because I'm an American. And they gave 0:40:32.000 --> 0:40:36.400 me a lemonnu and on it was tarde legume and 0:40:36.440 --> 0:40:38.480 I was like, I know what those words mean. That 0:40:38.520 --> 0:40:42.520 means pie vegetables, and that isn't that doesn't exist. I 0:40:42.520 --> 0:40:46.359 don't know what the funk you're talking about, Um, this 0:40:46.400 --> 0:40:48.719 is not a very interesting story and now everyone's heard it. 0:40:49.360 --> 0:40:53.000 But I learned how to make a vegetable pie on 0:40:53.600 --> 0:40:58.000 no notice because that was what the menu insisted upon. 0:40:58.200 --> 0:41:01.400 And yeah, I I feel for this person and the 0:41:01.400 --> 0:41:04.359 bronx who wasn't convinced that you were telling the truth 0:41:04.400 --> 0:41:07.480 about meat pies. Yeah. And if they're listening, I was 0:41:07.560 --> 0:41:11.080 a promise look it up. Now they've got Google. Yeah. 0:41:11.120 --> 0:41:13.080 The lesson we've learned there is don't cook for French people. 0:41:17.600 --> 0:41:19.520 So at the Games, one of the cool things is 0:41:19.520 --> 0:41:21.799 that nations competed instead of states, right, And we can 0:41:21.840 --> 0:41:24.360 fucking go off on the difference between nations and states. 0:41:24.719 --> 0:41:29.239 The state is the entity that has political control and 0:41:29.320 --> 0:41:32.360 exercise of monopoly on the legitimate violence in the geographic area. 0:41:32.760 --> 0:41:35.439 A nation is an imagined community that exists across base 0:41:35.480 --> 0:41:37.680 of time. That's the shortest I'm going to do that, 0:41:37.680 --> 0:41:39.360 and I'm not going to say anything that what's a 0:41:39.480 --> 0:41:45.160 country between those country is it's a geographical area that 0:41:45.160 --> 0:41:49.080 the state controls. But sometimes it's mapped onto nation as well, right, 0:41:49.120 --> 0:41:53.000 like Catalonia being a good example. But for most of 0:41:53.040 --> 0:41:58.200 the time people use it synonymously with state. So countries 0:41:58.200 --> 0:42:00.680 aren't competing. Nations are right. The egg styled Jews of 0:42:00.719 --> 0:42:04.239 Europe are competing, right, because if you're Jewish and it's six, 0:42:04.520 --> 0:42:06.919 don't want to fucking like marching there with the German flag, 0:42:06.920 --> 0:42:13.319 I would imagine doesn't feel good, negative vibes, so they 0:42:13.360 --> 0:42:15.640 don't do that. There they are the exiled Jews, right, 0:42:15.719 --> 0:42:19.120 and the anti fascists who are exiled from Germany in Italy. 0:42:19.160 --> 0:42:21.799 They also come in with their own different flags, right. Um. 0:42:23.480 --> 0:42:26.120 Initially there was some rumblings about the nub A CP 0:42:26.360 --> 0:42:29.760 sort of competing in the end of the United States team, 0:42:30.040 --> 0:42:33.200 which is made up of trade unionists, had black and 0:42:33.280 --> 0:42:37.600 white folks on it. The organizers are actually so invested 0:42:37.760 --> 0:42:43.040 in like um, the I guess including a pressed black 0:42:43.080 --> 0:42:46.680 people from the United States within the remit of people 0:42:47.520 --> 0:42:52.360 who sort of anti fascism wanted to advocate for that. 0:42:52.600 --> 0:42:54.520 They threw this whole Olympics together in like three or 0:42:54.560 --> 0:42:57.440 four months. It was shoestring budget. It's funded by the 0:42:57.480 --> 0:43:00.040 French government, the Spanish government, the Catalan government in a 0:43:00.080 --> 0:43:05.120 vidual donors and some trade unions from Norway. And they 0:43:05.200 --> 0:43:07.000 took their very sparse money and we're like we will 0:43:07.080 --> 0:43:10.920 pay your way if you if you're black people from 0:43:10.920 --> 0:43:12.759 America want to come over here, cause we understand its 0:43:12.760 --> 0:43:15.520 ship over there if you want to come and play 0:43:15.560 --> 0:43:17.919 with us, and that's fine, which is cool, Like fuck 0:43:18.000 --> 0:43:20.040 you to the fact that, because the whole Olympics is 0:43:20.080 --> 0:43:23.200 a fuck you to to Nazi Germany, right, and so 0:43:23.239 --> 0:43:25.960 it's cool that it also was like and fuck you 0:43:26.040 --> 0:43:30.200 too racism in the United States also like I like that, yeah, 0:43:30.360 --> 0:43:32.200 and like it's also worth noting, Actually, look, why are 0:43:32.239 --> 0:43:34.279 we saying fuck you to the Nazis and that like 0:43:34.480 --> 0:43:37.720 the people at the popular Olympics like ran faster, jumped higher, 0:43:37.719 --> 0:43:41.920 worth stronger, like the Olympics are extremely gate kept by class. 0:43:42.760 --> 0:43:45.080 We see that. We see that kind of crumbling like 0:43:45.160 --> 0:43:47.640 with your with your man Jesse Owens and stuff like that. Right, 0:43:47.680 --> 0:43:52.400 but at this point there were still workers sports and 0:43:52.480 --> 0:43:55.279 bourgeois sports and bourgeoire sports twins the Olympics, right, Like 0:43:55.760 --> 0:43:57.920 the Olympics still had an amateurism rule. If you got 0:43:57.960 --> 0:44:02.839 paid for exercising, you couldn't go, so yeah, which meant 0:44:02.840 --> 0:44:05.040 that like working class people, right, like if you don't 0:44:05.040 --> 0:44:07.239 get paid time off, and one gets paid time off, 0:44:07.239 --> 0:44:10.960 its six then they can't go and compete. Right, Like 0:44:11.040 --> 0:44:14.000 if even if you work full time and I say, hey, Margaret, 0:44:14.040 --> 0:44:15.759 I'll pay for a couple of weeks, you know, I'll 0:44:15.760 --> 0:44:16.800 make sure I take care of your rents so you 0:44:16.840 --> 0:44:19.839 can go and do the Olympics. Nope, if you run 0:44:19.840 --> 0:44:22.560 a benefit race after the Olympics, they will take your 0:44:22.560 --> 0:44:26.359 medal away. Tom Longboat who they did that too. They 0:44:26.360 --> 0:44:28.640 do that a whole lot to people who aren't white. Shockingly. 0:44:29.280 --> 0:44:34.080 Um so, yeah, Olympics not great. Actually, maybe we'll do 0:44:34.120 --> 0:44:36.640 a whole left bord and what have the Olympics do 0:44:36.719 --> 0:44:40.160 some bad ship. But yeah, these people come from America 0:44:40.320 --> 0:44:43.960 right on the team. It's Charlie Burley. Charlie Burley goes 0:44:43.960 --> 0:44:46.560 on to be kind of a legendary boxer, right. He's 0:44:46.600 --> 0:44:51.279 biracial man from Pennsylvania. Uh. And Dot Tucker she's a 0:44:51.320 --> 0:44:55.000 black woman. She ran her union in the Bronx and 0:44:55.040 --> 0:45:00.720 she ran hardrometers as well. Yeah, fucking plan that one out. Yeah, 0:45:01.200 --> 0:45:04.879 I love a good written into the script like planned out. 0:45:05.480 --> 0:45:08.120 It's good. Don't It sounds sarcastic, but I actually mean 0:45:08.160 --> 0:45:11.640 it really honestly. You can appreciate the joy that I'm 0:45:11.640 --> 0:45:16.359 feeling right now. And so that games brings twenty thou 0:45:16.560 --> 0:45:20.400 anti fascist to Barcelona, right and some of them are watching, 0:45:20.640 --> 0:45:23.160 some of them are competing, some of them are staying 0:45:23.160 --> 0:45:26.120 in hotels. The Hotel Olympic is where most of them stay, 0:45:26.160 --> 0:45:28.560 but they ran of space, so about two weeks before 0:45:28.600 --> 0:45:30.680 the games, they went around random houses and we're like, hey, 0:45:30.680 --> 0:45:32.920 can you have someone to stay? So lots of the 0:45:32.960 --> 0:45:36.440 athletes are just like crashing with people and it's kind 0:45:36.440 --> 0:45:38.200 of cool. If you go to the archive in Barcelona, 0:45:38.239 --> 0:45:40.000 you can see the little forms where they go up 0:45:40.040 --> 0:45:41.719 to a house and be like, okay, this person has 0:45:41.760 --> 0:45:44.400 two beds and they can take care of breakfast, and 0:45:44.520 --> 0:45:47.960 that's two athletes who can stay here. They went door 0:45:48.000 --> 0:45:50.279 to door. Yeah, it's heartbreaking seeing that ship and then 0:45:50.360 --> 0:45:53.000 knowing what happened. Um. I was just thinking it was 0:45:53.040 --> 0:45:55.400 like a better way to Um. Yeah, like that's what 0:45:55.560 --> 0:45:59.359 Airbnb should be, you know, yes, yeah, I think if 0:45:59.360 --> 0:46:02.920 the Airbnb, if we compare this to the Berlin Olympic 0:46:03.000 --> 0:46:05.920 village where the Condor legions stayed before they headed off 0:46:05.920 --> 0:46:09.759 to bomb people in Spain, we will see that one 0:46:09.760 --> 0:46:13.120 side is better than the other side. And yeah, so 0:46:13.920 --> 0:46:17.320 these people are staying all across Barcelona, right. They's trained 0:46:17.320 --> 0:46:20.000 in the stadium the day before, they're distributed all around 0:46:20.000 --> 0:46:24.359 the city. So in the morning of thee these are 0:46:24.400 --> 0:46:28.880 kind of hardcore Catholic conservatives. Um, they report to the 0:46:28.920 --> 0:46:33.480 San Intario barracks outside of Barcelona. Meanwhile, at the Pedroldes barracks, 0:46:33.800 --> 0:46:35.719 officers get their troops up but think at four in 0:46:35.760 --> 0:46:39.840 the morning, serve them a ration of rum for breakfast 0:46:40.960 --> 0:46:43.120 and tell them that there's been an anarchist uprising in 0:46:43.160 --> 0:46:45.799 the city that they have to put down, and so 0:46:45.840 --> 0:46:48.600 they send them my right, this is a lie. Yeah, 0:46:48.600 --> 0:46:50.480 the uprising is in fact what they are doing as 0:46:50.520 --> 0:46:54.000 they march into the city. It's telling that they lie 0:46:54.600 --> 0:46:58.360 because the troops are conscripts and are not really brought 0:46:58.360 --> 0:47:02.399 into their nationalist crusade at the point. Yeah, and it's 0:47:02.440 --> 0:47:04.920 worth always remembering there, like working class people get trapped 0:47:04.960 --> 0:47:07.359 up in wars, often not by their own choosing. Well, 0:47:07.360 --> 0:47:09.440 so it's kind of like how they're like, you have 0:47:09.520 --> 0:47:12.000 to go out and fight Antifa, you have to go 0:47:12.000 --> 0:47:14.280 out and do a coup against the United States because 0:47:14.320 --> 0:47:18.480 otherwise Antifa, who are all stalinists, are going to turn 0:47:19.160 --> 0:47:24.640 the us into the uss are. Yes, yeah, yeah, that's yeah. 0:47:24.760 --> 0:47:28.480 There there's no parallel. No, that's that's not a parallel. Sorry, okay, no, 0:47:28.640 --> 0:47:31.760 it could never happen here. That's that's our big message 0:47:31.800 --> 0:47:35.280 for today. So these guys they start heading down Agnula 0:47:35.320 --> 0:47:38.400 Diagonal right towards Plasfa Cataluna, at the heart of the city. 0:47:39.000 --> 0:47:41.480 The cavalry or on a different street carried Tarragona. There 0:47:41.480 --> 0:47:43.799 are dragoons on a different street. They leave a little 0:47:43.880 --> 0:47:46.880 later because the Spanish army is something of a clusterfuck, 0:47:47.360 --> 0:47:51.160 and they all plan to join up, but they never did. Instead, 0:47:51.480 --> 0:47:55.000 all across the city, sirens sound the alarm in factories 0:47:55.520 --> 0:47:57.880 and where these troops have been planning to meet up 0:47:57.880 --> 0:48:00.160 with one another. They met up with sniper fire and 0:48:00.200 --> 0:48:04.040 those homemade bombs we talked about. Yeah, yeah, this is 0:48:04.040 --> 0:48:07.440 where ship gets gets good. At the barricades, they met 0:48:07.480 --> 0:48:10.759 men and women with everything from modern machine pistols to 0:48:10.840 --> 0:48:16.200 blunderbusses and slingshots. Yeah, the blunderbusses are pretty cool. You 0:48:16.200 --> 0:48:20.040 can find some pictures. Many troops were forced back into 0:48:20.080 --> 0:48:22.960 their barracks. Some made it as far as a telephone 0:48:22.960 --> 0:48:25.560 exchange and the hotel's Rits and Cologne in the middle 0:48:25.600 --> 0:48:30.640 of the city. What the troops, who are incredibly poorly 0:48:30.680 --> 0:48:33.279 trained consecuts with little or no combat experience and even 0:48:33.360 --> 0:48:36.160 less willingness to fight, ran into It was the most 0:48:36.239 --> 0:48:40.759 unlikely of alliances. Catalonia's Nationalists had governed the autonomous region 0:48:40.800 --> 0:48:43.960 since the declaration of the Republic in ninety one. They 0:48:44.000 --> 0:48:47.440 formed a broad leftist alliance called the Esca Republicanady Catalonia. 0:48:47.600 --> 0:48:49.880 That means Catalan Republican Left. I was calling the e 0:48:50.040 --> 0:48:52.600 r C to avoid that. It's a bit of an 0:48:52.640 --> 0:48:55.799 alphabet soup, but I'll try and explain where I need 0:48:55.840 --> 0:48:58.920 to so. Before the Popular Front existed, they're kind of 0:48:58.920 --> 0:49:03.399 a proto popular. They combine liberal and leftist parties who 0:49:03.600 --> 0:49:07.279 share agreement on autonomous and progressive Catalonia, and they tend 0:49:07.320 --> 0:49:09.480 to be either aligned with or to the left of 0:49:09.520 --> 0:49:11.600 the government in Madrid, most often to the left of 0:49:12.120 --> 0:49:15.480 um They don't cover support of the anarchists, right. That's 0:49:15.520 --> 0:49:21.160 important um luis compounds who's the leader right there, the 0:49:21.160 --> 0:49:24.200 Catalan leader of the generality that at that point has 0:49:24.239 --> 0:49:26.440 been a lawyer for the anarchist before, so he may 0:49:26.480 --> 0:49:28.560 have more personal support than the party as a whole 0:49:28.600 --> 0:49:33.080 had among the anarchists. Um, for decades, right, the police 0:49:33.080 --> 0:49:35.760 in Barcelona have acted on behalf of capital against labor. 0:49:36.520 --> 0:49:38.560 They do violence for the people who aren't stuff against 0:49:38.600 --> 0:49:42.160 people who make stuff. And even under the republic, this 0:49:42.280 --> 0:49:44.720 has continued, right, They had called it the Republic of order, 0:49:45.000 --> 0:49:49.880 and Margaret, I think you covered the li the pistols 0:49:50.160 --> 0:49:53.680 right there, the years of the pistol in the nineteen twenties. Yeah, yeah, 0:49:53.760 --> 0:49:58.120 but um, it was, yeah, they like shooting the anarchists 0:49:58.239 --> 0:50:00.920 in order to bring about order. They and they it 0:50:00.960 --> 0:50:03.080 wasn't like a legal thing. They weren't like, oh, it's 0:50:03.080 --> 0:50:06.200 our legal strategy. It was just like we're in charge, 0:50:06.200 --> 0:50:08.719 so we will assassinate the anarchists and then the other 0:50:08.719 --> 0:50:11.000 thing that like, I feel like it's like we're thinking 0:50:11.040 --> 0:50:12.920 about because if if someone's hearing, you might be like, 0:50:13.239 --> 0:50:15.279 why does the government care if the anarchists are on 0:50:15.320 --> 0:50:18.040 their side? And it's to my understanding and correct me 0:50:18.040 --> 0:50:20.560 if I'm wrong. The anarchists are like a huge chunk 0:50:20.800 --> 0:50:23.839 of the working class of Barcelona at this point, so 0:50:23.880 --> 0:50:26.960 it's like they actually do care because it's a huge, 0:50:27.520 --> 0:50:31.560 huge swaths of people. The anarchists by the end of 0:50:31.600 --> 0:50:34.520 the night will own the city. Right, and they have 0:50:34.640 --> 0:50:36.920 always been the majority of the Catalan working class in 0:50:36.960 --> 0:50:40.920 this period. They they control the way elections go. Right. 0:50:40.960 --> 0:50:43.840 When the anarchists abstained, then the right winds. When the 0:50:43.840 --> 0:50:48.160 anarchists they don't say, don't vote, like they don't like, 0:50:48.239 --> 0:50:50.520 they're not like, yeah, I go vote, They're like, they 0:50:50.560 --> 0:50:58.000 don't maybe consider not abstaining, then the popular front winds. Right. Yeah, 0:50:58.000 --> 0:51:00.799 it's very funny how they how to use words. But yeah, 0:51:00.800 --> 0:51:03.120 the the anarchists are the working class, for the for 0:51:03.160 --> 0:51:05.279 the most of the most of the industries, most of 0:51:05.280 --> 0:51:07.440 the unions are anarchos cynicalist. Right, so you don't have 0:51:07.480 --> 0:51:09.760 support the anarchists, you don't have support the working class. 0:51:11.400 --> 0:51:13.840 In the twenties, the cops called the anarchirts. The anarchists 0:51:13.880 --> 0:51:17.560 called the cops. Right. This is how we get the 0:51:17.640 --> 0:51:23.839 famous affinity groups, right, lost Darios, los Quixotes, delidial and 0:51:25.160 --> 0:51:27.200 being some famous ones. Right, And we'll talk about them 0:51:27.200 --> 0:51:28.840 a little bit in the next episode. How that works 0:51:28.840 --> 0:51:34.960 and what they mean. Uh so not one. Their declaration 0:51:34.960 --> 0:51:37.719 of Republic was a massive boost for the anarchists. Um 0:51:38.239 --> 0:51:40.239 More people have joined anarchist unions they felt safe for 0:51:40.360 --> 0:51:43.920 doing so. Primo de Rivera, the previous dictator had been 0:51:44.000 --> 0:51:46.960 very harsh an anarchists. They actually briefly in the out 0:51:47.040 --> 0:51:50.880 job the GAT secured like libertarian socialists and they just 0:51:50.920 --> 0:51:56.200 took over some towns. Uh and like they they see 0:51:56.239 --> 0:51:58.839 his weapons from the cops and abolished currency for a 0:51:58.840 --> 0:52:02.480 week and it was just like, get it's on. It's 0:52:02.520 --> 0:52:06.000 it's anarchism. And so for five days for goals belonged 0:52:06.040 --> 0:52:08.480 to the people of the gold. And this is before 0:52:08.640 --> 0:52:11.160 we talk about before the the coup and all of that. Yeah, 0:52:11.239 --> 0:52:15.320 this is republic begins in one So there's a number 0:52:15.360 --> 0:52:17.880 of these early on in the republic, when the state 0:52:18.080 --> 0:52:21.960 is less violently postured towards anarchism, the anarchists really fucking 0:52:22.000 --> 0:52:24.759 send it. Um. You see it in cassas via hearsts, 0:52:24.800 --> 0:52:27.680 you see in fig goals. Um. So yeah, they more 0:52:27.680 --> 0:52:29.560 people joining because they feel safe for joining, and that 0:52:29.640 --> 0:52:33.160 leads to more open conflict with the sort of civil 0:52:33.280 --> 0:52:38.000 order I guess. But with the threat of fascism looming, 0:52:38.080 --> 0:52:41.840 the CNT establishes defense committees and these become like a 0:52:41.880 --> 0:52:44.520 quick reaction force for the city, right, So by the 0:52:44.520 --> 0:52:47.280 time the troops leave their barracks, activis within the CNT 0:52:47.440 --> 0:52:52.120 were ready for them. Barcelona's Reval, the densely populated district 0:52:52.239 --> 0:52:54.839 just off the more tourists friendly Rambler, have become known 0:52:54.840 --> 0:52:58.600 as a Bali chins and that means Chinatown, not because 0:52:58.640 --> 0:53:00.839 Chinese people are people with any Asian extraction lived there, 0:53:01.760 --> 0:53:05.279 just because they watched gangster movies about Chicago's Chinatown and 0:53:05.320 --> 0:53:09.200 they were like, oh, yeah, we're we can go that hard. Okay, 0:53:09.800 --> 0:53:12.560 they just called it that. Chris Ellim has a great 0:53:12.560 --> 0:53:15.840 book on the construction of Chinatown. Now, people have been 0:53:15.840 --> 0:53:18.239 shooting each other in those streets for decades, right, But 0:53:19.239 --> 0:53:21.440 for once everyone in the revol was pointing their guns 0:53:21.480 --> 0:53:25.479 out every balcony, and the raval becomes a sniper's nest, 0:53:25.520 --> 0:53:28.520 and by the time the sun came up, it was 0:53:28.520 --> 0:53:32.600 an impenetrable fortress of the working class. And at this 0:53:32.680 --> 0:53:34.920 time the state would find itself begging the anarchists for 0:53:34.960 --> 0:53:37.600 support and not the other way around. And I think 0:53:37.640 --> 0:53:41.399 that's maybe where we'll end it today, so that people 0:53:41.440 --> 0:53:43.480 can be sort of teetering on the edge of the 0:53:43.520 --> 0:53:46.200 seat to know what happens next. Thank you very much 0:53:46.200 --> 0:53:49.440 for joining me, Margaret. Would you like to plug anything? 0:53:49.560 --> 0:53:52.200 Do you have any plug doubles? Well, I have a 0:53:52.200 --> 0:53:55.279 book that's available for preorder. It's called We Won't Be 0:53:55.320 --> 0:54:01.760 Here Tomorrow. And if you like um transwoman who robs 0:54:01.920 --> 0:54:05.720 guys and then feeds them to her mermaid lover, or 0:54:06.120 --> 0:54:10.680 you like the um the dead in Valhalla coming back 0:54:10.719 --> 0:54:14.120 and joining in an American civil war to fight against Nazis, 0:54:14.800 --> 0:54:18.000 then you might like this book. Um. Actually, I think 0:54:18.040 --> 0:54:23.919 I read that story on this podcast. UM fucking ruined 0:54:23.920 --> 0:54:26.279 the next episode, because that's what happened as well, I know, 0:54:26.640 --> 0:54:30.279 I know. Well, actually there's a different story that I 0:54:30.320 --> 0:54:33.520 didn't write. I think. Oh no, there's one about um 0:54:34.080 --> 0:54:40.480 velociraptors in the Spanish Civil War. Um that that anyway, 0:54:40.480 --> 0:54:45.040 that's completely unrelated. Okay, So that is where you I'm 0:54:45.239 --> 0:54:47.080 The book is currently available for pre order and if 0:54:47.080 --> 0:54:48.839 you get it from a k Press or a couple 0:54:48.920 --> 0:54:51.520 other different independent bookstores, then it comes with the free 0:54:51.600 --> 0:54:54.959 art print that comes from the book, and so if 0:54:55.000 --> 0:54:57.759 you like that, you could consider getting it or ask 0:54:57.800 --> 0:54:59.600 your library to get it. And you can follow me 0:54:59.600 --> 0:55:02.439 on the internet at Magpie killed Joy on Twitter and 0:55:02.719 --> 0:55:08.880 Margaret kill Joy on Instagram. That's myable. I have a podcast, 0:55:09.000 --> 0:55:10.799 I do. I actually have two podcasts. I have a 0:55:10.840 --> 0:55:13.400 podcast called Live Like the World Is Dying, which is 0:55:13.440 --> 0:55:16.799 an individual and community preparedness podcast, and I also have 0:55:16.840 --> 0:55:22.320 a podcast on this very network. Um I do. Yeah, 0:55:22.120 --> 0:55:24.319 you all haven't noticed it yet. I've just been kind 0:55:24.360 --> 0:55:28.000 of uploading my stuff without checking with you all called 0:55:28.040 --> 0:55:32.200 cool people who did cool stuff, which is all about history, 0:55:32.320 --> 0:55:39.520 but in a fun way about stuff that cool. I'm 0:55:39.560 --> 0:55:42.839 exciting against it right now. Thank you very much, thanks 0:55:42.880 --> 0:56:01.520 for having me. Ah, welcome back to it could happen here. 0:56:01.560 --> 0:56:04.399 This is part two of it can happen here, the 0:56:04.440 --> 0:56:08.320 podcast that Fox. All right, that's my job done today. Okay, 0:56:08.360 --> 0:56:13.759 Part two of James The Spanish Civil War and the 0:56:13.760 --> 0:56:18.279 the Antifa Olympics. That's right, yep uh Civil War week. 0:56:18.360 --> 0:56:21.239 Closing out with this one. Why does the Olympics? Why 0:56:21.280 --> 0:56:24.080 did the Antifi Olympics hate freedom though? Is my question. 0:56:24.520 --> 0:56:27.560 The Antifa Olympics are going around and destroying all of 0:56:27.600 --> 0:56:33.280 the balls. Yeah, they are taking your children and Bustloads 0:56:33.360 --> 0:56:38.239 of black clad athletes are showing up in your city. Stay. 0:56:39.200 --> 0:56:42.120 This does make me think back briefly to win. A 0:56:42.160 --> 0:56:45.320 couple of different anti fascist groups in Seattle and Portland 0:56:45.520 --> 0:56:48.439 played soccer and it became a whole thing because yeah, 0:56:48.440 --> 0:56:51.880 they were oh I used to play anarchist soccer in 0:56:51.920 --> 0:56:55.440 New York City and oh that got that got canceled hard. 0:56:56.239 --> 0:56:59.520 Well it's it's in Portland, got canceled art it Also 0:57:00.160 --> 0:57:01.640 because it was in New York City, there was a 0:57:01.680 --> 0:57:04.719 bunch of like semi famous actors who would come and 0:57:04.719 --> 0:57:09.759 play anarchist soccer, but then couldn't be like visually associated, 0:57:09.800 --> 0:57:12.280 so like people would all mask up in solidarity. Whatever 0:57:12.360 --> 0:57:15.479 camera people would come by because like some famous actor 0:57:15.520 --> 0:57:19.080 it was playing anarchist soccer in the park. That's very funny. Yeah, 0:57:19.080 --> 0:57:23.160 that's that's standing. More of that needed. And yeah, these anarchists, 0:57:23.200 --> 0:57:25.200 of course, would just busy doing the traditional anti faster 0:57:25.280 --> 0:57:28.680 Just think of starting forest fires in Oregon before okay, 0:57:28.840 --> 0:57:32.400 before the Civil War. So anyway, picking up from the 0:57:32.440 --> 0:57:35.120 last episode where we left our heroes, Yeah, we're talking 0:57:35.160 --> 0:57:38.680 about the heroes, right. So with the minitary merging towards 0:57:38.680 --> 0:57:41.080 the city and every balcony in the working classroom ault 0:57:41.160 --> 0:57:44.120 quickly becoming a sniper's nest. Every rifle was needed at 0:57:44.120 --> 0:57:48.000 the barricades with Spanish and catle and tops took an impressed, 0:57:48.000 --> 0:57:51.440 idented break from being bastards and instead significant elements of 0:57:51.440 --> 0:57:55.760 the most squad Guardsville and the elite paramilitary assault guides 0:57:56.080 --> 0:57:59.120 grabbed their hand carbines rifles with names like Tiger and 0:57:59.160 --> 0:58:03.480 Destroyer and took none of them are called Roberts saddi 0:58:04.040 --> 0:58:07.800 um and took to the barricades. What a missed opportunity. 0:58:08.440 --> 0:58:11.840 This is why the Spanish lost. Get me my robbit, 0:58:12.360 --> 0:58:15.720 I can see it now. I'm prepared to help you 0:58:15.760 --> 0:58:18.320 with the advertising. It no, just just gonna bob them 0:58:18.400 --> 0:58:22.680 right up. That's why they called them bobbies. Yeah, famously. 0:58:23.440 --> 0:58:24.760 I think we need to make I think it needs 0:58:24.800 --> 0:58:29.600 to be some sort of like nine barreled electronic volley gun. Yeah, 0:58:30.280 --> 0:58:32.520 somebody we could take out to something that could take 0:58:32.560 --> 0:58:35.200 out at least two Japanese prime ministers at once. You 0:58:35.240 --> 0:58:37.760 only need two barrels for one prime minister, so you 0:58:37.760 --> 0:58:44.160 could get up to four. Yeah, yeah, say some time. Yeah, 0:58:45.240 --> 0:58:47.920 all right, today you go back and get Joan shiro Koaizumi, 0:58:48.160 --> 0:58:53.360 finally bring him to justice with a nine barrel pipe gun. 0:58:53.880 --> 0:58:57.120 M okay so these people. So the cops and the 0:58:57.120 --> 0:58:59.640 anarchists are fighting alongside each other. Is that what you're 0:58:59.640 --> 0:59:02.560 telling for wrecked? Yep. The anarchists are pulling up paving stones, 0:59:02.920 --> 0:59:06.200 building barricades, which they had learned in previous conflict with 0:59:06.240 --> 0:59:10.400 the state could stop light artillery, and they are welcoming 0:59:10.440 --> 0:59:13.160 the cops. It's worth pointing out that the here is 0:59:13.160 --> 0:59:14.600 a Day are not cops, and the here is a 0:59:14.720 --> 0:59:18.200 Day are very rarely cops. Instead, it's the ordinary people 0:59:18.240 --> 0:59:22.720 of Catalonia, right, Everyone from liberals to left libertarians runs 0:59:22.760 --> 0:59:27.480 to the barricades. But the anarchist affinity groups, the anarchist 0:59:27.880 --> 0:59:32.320 defense committees are the mortar that holds together the resistance. Right. 0:59:32.720 --> 0:59:36.880 They are experienced, they have plans, They provide impetus and 0:59:36.920 --> 0:59:39.680 inspiration to the working class. They are ready when their 0:59:39.720 --> 0:59:42.800 liberal government is not um. They're a pretty good handle 0:59:42.800 --> 0:59:44.720 on fighting in the streets of Barcelona too. This is 0:59:44.720 --> 0:59:47.480 their home turf right, And incidentally, we see this ship 0:59:47.560 --> 0:59:49.280 a lot like people who are good at fighting the 0:59:49.320 --> 0:59:52.880 cops become integral and fighting the state happened in the Maidan, 0:59:53.440 --> 0:59:56.560 happened in ter Rear Square, both with ultras right liquor 0:59:56.560 --> 0:59:59.520 football fans, people who go to football games that also 0:59:59.560 --> 1:00:02.640 like fighting cops. Um, so, like, it's not unprecedented that 1:00:02.680 --> 1:00:04.880 the folks who are good at fighting the cops become 1:00:04.880 --> 1:00:09.040 integral at fighting the state when state turns bad turns 1:00:09.120 --> 1:00:14.120 bad in many cases. They also have more experience when 1:00:14.120 --> 1:00:16.919 it plating their weapons than the poorly trained conscripts, because 1:00:16.920 --> 1:00:18.960 it would be pretty hard to have less. There's a 1:00:19.000 --> 1:00:21.680 little bit of a debate, a discussion about causality here. 1:00:22.120 --> 1:00:24.919 Does the cooper fail where it does because the cops 1:00:25.000 --> 1:00:29.200 remain loyal or does the beach head established by the 1:00:29.200 --> 1:00:32.360 working class a lava cops who were sympathetic but not 1:00:32.400 --> 1:00:38.080 convinced to safely remain loyal. Right, so, across Spain, it's 1:00:38.200 --> 1:00:40.360 like not quite the same as us to the cops 1:00:40.400 --> 1:00:43.400 are better trained and better armed than the military, but 1:00:43.720 --> 1:00:46.720 they often hung back until the working class to take 1:00:46.720 --> 1:00:49.880 a decisive action. Right. Um, the it was where the 1:00:49.920 --> 1:00:54.880 winds blowing, Yeah, exactly like they sometimes like occasionally they 1:00:54.920 --> 1:00:57.320 will do some sort of kingship like in the one 1:00:57.400 --> 1:01:01.840 city they couple of the assault guards their officers side 1:01:01.840 --> 1:01:03.680 with a coup so they get shot by their own men. 1:01:06.640 --> 1:01:10.320 Love to see in other places they signed to do nothing. 1:01:10.560 --> 1:01:12.680 In some places the soldiers come for them, where they're like, 1:01:12.680 --> 1:01:15.360 suck it, it's on now. But in other places they 1:01:15.480 --> 1:01:17.640 join with the working class, as they do in Barcelona. 1:01:17.680 --> 1:01:20.440 The civil Guard is older. The civil Guard tends to 1:01:20.480 --> 1:01:22.200 be in more rural places where the coup tends to 1:01:22.200 --> 1:01:24.680 be more successful, and civil guide tends to be less 1:01:24.680 --> 1:01:28.160 loyal to the republic. The civil Guide in Barcelona waits 1:01:28.240 --> 1:01:31.959 until noon. The coup is really defeated by noon. By noon, 1:01:32.320 --> 1:01:34.800 the soldiers all hold up in the food buildings and 1:01:34.920 --> 1:01:37.160 it's very clear that they haven't won. And then they 1:01:37.200 --> 1:01:40.680 come in on a horseback clip clopping down the street 1:01:40.720 --> 1:01:44.160 doing the raised fist salute, like just milking it to 1:01:44.240 --> 1:01:46.440 announce their sort of loyalty to republic. They did have 1:01:47.120 --> 1:01:49.520 better guns and better marksman, so they were helpful in 1:01:49.560 --> 1:01:54.280 assaulting their buildings. That came next. Alright, alright, everyone, we're here. 1:01:54.360 --> 1:01:59.440 We saved the day. Yeah, here we go, thin blue line. 1:02:01.120 --> 1:02:06.000 So what happens all across Barcelona is the tremendously poorly 1:02:06.160 --> 1:02:09.880 organized army meet well organized when in trench resistance, and 1:02:09.920 --> 1:02:12.560 they're killed a turn back. So I want to give 1:02:13.080 --> 1:02:16.320 one example of this from Avenue D Carrier. It's related 1:02:16.320 --> 1:02:18.600 by Beaver in his book. Now, what they've done in 1:02:18.640 --> 1:02:21.440 the carrier was taken out huge rolls of newsprint like 1:02:21.520 --> 1:02:23.760 the stuff that you put newspaper on, and rolled them 1:02:23.760 --> 1:02:28.880 into the streets to make a barricade. Right, Um, so yeah, 1:02:29.520 --> 1:02:33.480 the degree to which people were like ready in amusing 1:02:33.480 --> 1:02:37.960 ways is it's a great part of this, you know. 1:02:38.120 --> 1:02:39.880 That was what they had available to them. Seems to 1:02:39.920 --> 1:02:44.320 be stopping bullets. So is the way to stop bullets? 1:02:44.640 --> 1:02:50.840 It is, Yeah, lots of layers of newsprint, um, different places, 1:02:50.840 --> 1:02:54.000 so yes, it was yeah, yeah, it certainly seemed to 1:02:54.120 --> 1:02:56.360 work here. And they had their big old guns like 1:02:57.000 --> 1:03:00.720 Spanish mouses, certifying stops for a second, and a small 1:03:00.760 --> 1:03:03.560 group of workers and an assault guard close the distance 1:03:03.600 --> 1:03:06.400 between themselves and to seventy five millimeter field guns. But 1:03:06.440 --> 1:03:09.160 they're holding their rifles above their heads. They said that 1:03:09.240 --> 1:03:11.960 they wanted to talk and not to fight for a 1:03:12.000 --> 1:03:14.280 few minutes, to give a passionate speech informing the soldiers 1:03:14.320 --> 1:03:17.000 they've been lied to that the anarchists were not in revolt, 1:03:17.080 --> 1:03:19.200 that they were in fact part of a coup, and 1:03:19.200 --> 1:03:22.120 that they should not fire on their Predatorian brothers. It's 1:03:22.160 --> 1:03:24.360 not exactly clear what they said, but whatever they said, 1:03:24.400 --> 1:03:27.840 it worked, and very slowly the seed of class consciousness 1:03:27.880 --> 1:03:30.320 was planted and it bloomed in about the time it 1:03:30.360 --> 1:03:32.600 takes to turn a seventy five millimeter gun a hundred 1:03:32.600 --> 1:03:39.040 and eighty degrees loaded and fired at your offices. Again, 1:03:39.120 --> 1:03:44.600 it's just so good like that that these powerful anecdotes 1:03:44.680 --> 1:03:47.640 of like someone just being like, ha, yeah, now that 1:03:47.680 --> 1:03:50.200 you phrase it like that, we're on the same team. 1:03:50.680 --> 1:03:55.360 Let me turn the stund Yeah, I ALSASO just love 1:03:55.480 --> 1:03:57.440 to think of a guy who has just been like 1:03:57.840 --> 1:04:03.840 previously like for God and country gets vaporized by seventy 1:04:03.880 --> 1:04:10.680 five millimet Again, it's truly magnificent to death. So the 1:04:10.680 --> 1:04:14.040 popular Olympians are still in town, right, Uh that they 1:04:14.080 --> 1:04:18.160 turned up to show off as anti fascist, but they 1:04:18.200 --> 1:04:21.160 didn't really expect to be showing off their anti fascist 1:04:21.200 --> 1:04:24.160 BUTTA fighters quite like this, But lots of and were 1:04:24.200 --> 1:04:27.600 winning participants. The Americans were down by the buck of 1:04:27.680 --> 1:04:30.320 ther market. You've probably been there, you've been to Barcelona. 1:04:30.600 --> 1:04:33.960 He probably bought an edible arrangement um what tourists like 1:04:34.040 --> 1:04:37.200 to do. Um. And they watched the streets around them 1:04:37.200 --> 1:04:40.080 turn into battle brands. You can see the bullet holes 1:04:40.080 --> 1:04:42.160 in the hotel where they stayed in some of the 1:04:42.160 --> 1:04:46.520 cafes around there, and that some of these bullet holes 1:04:46.560 --> 1:04:49.640 that should be mentioned from a sadah and altogether different battle. 1:04:49.880 --> 1:04:53.680 A year later and this day they popped out of 1:04:53.720 --> 1:04:55.120 their hotel rooms to take a look at what was 1:04:55.160 --> 1:04:58.200 going on, got shot at, and then went back inside 1:04:58.360 --> 1:05:01.280 and then out of different balconies. But they had this 1:05:01.360 --> 1:05:04.439 big of popping out of different balconies, like I don't 1:05:04.520 --> 1:05:06.320 understand what the fund is going on in their heads, 1:05:06.320 --> 1:05:08.800 whether like people keep shooting at us, let's continue to 1:05:08.800 --> 1:05:14.720 try different balconies. I can see doing that, just being serious, right, 1:05:14.800 --> 1:05:17.400 like yeah yeah yeah, they and they'd all made friends 1:05:17.400 --> 1:05:19.240 with Spanish people, right, they were just they were not 1:05:19.280 --> 1:05:21.600 the athletes of today that they were out late drinking 1:05:21.640 --> 1:05:24.560 every night, and they were really bummed, very quickly, very 1:05:24.640 --> 1:05:27.240 upset that we need to get stuck in like you know, 1:05:27.280 --> 1:05:30.800 we're young, healthy people and their diaries. They also right 1:05:30.840 --> 1:05:34.160 about seeing the Spanish women at the barricade and just 1:05:34.240 --> 1:05:40.280 being like, oh funk, yes this is outstanding. Yeah, um yeah, 1:05:40.280 --> 1:05:43.400 they're they're just like because they're very committed, right, like 1:05:43.680 --> 1:05:47.640 these these anti fatties are very committed to gender equality, 1:05:47.680 --> 1:05:51.240 Like they really are. And it's it's demonstable in all 1:05:51.280 --> 1:05:54.040 the communications about the popular Olympics, when they send stuff 1:05:54.080 --> 1:05:56.200 to unions and unions like here's a team. It's tend 1:05:56.280 --> 1:05:58.560 dude say like, well that's fucking disappointing, Like where are 1:05:58.600 --> 1:06:01.400 the women? What are we doing here? Hey? How are 1:06:01.400 --> 1:06:03.000 we making the world better with just a bunch of 1:06:03.080 --> 1:06:06.680 dudes exercising together? Like? Um? So that it really is. 1:06:06.760 --> 1:06:09.200 I think it's very genuine commitment for them, and they're yeah, 1:06:09.240 --> 1:06:13.160 they're just so pumped. So when the fighting lolls, these 1:06:13.160 --> 1:06:16.800 guys come running out and they saw those cavalry horses, right, 1:06:16.840 --> 1:06:19.200 the cavalry horses that they'd expected to parade down the 1:06:19.320 --> 1:06:23.080 Rambler in the victorious coup had now been stacked on 1:06:23.120 --> 1:06:27.960 top of each other as barricades, and so the horses, Yes, 1:06:28.440 --> 1:06:31.320 they used the horses as cover. You can find pictures 1:06:31.360 --> 1:06:35.640 of this. Yeah, yeah, it kind of the horses didn't 1:06:35.640 --> 1:06:38.720 want to be fascists. Yeah, but I think you can 1:06:38.720 --> 1:06:40.160 take some solace in knowing that the people who are 1:06:40.240 --> 1:06:44.920 riding them also got killed. Yeah, you say, the horses 1:06:44.960 --> 1:06:48.680 didn't want to be fascist. This is in the intersection 1:06:48.680 --> 1:06:51.560 of ship. You enjoy Robert Actually, yeah, yeah, shifting on 1:06:51.680 --> 1:06:57.280 horses and hating fascists, which are the same horses would 1:06:57.320 --> 1:07:00.560 be very good at shifting on fascists for a great night. 1:07:02.640 --> 1:07:08.720 Yeah yeah, I know, r I P. Horses did nothing wrong. 1:07:10.200 --> 1:07:14.880 Paul went out for the horses. So Charlie Burley runs 1:07:14.880 --> 1:07:17.360 down into the street, right, He's pretty accustomed to fighting. 1:07:17.440 --> 1:07:20.000 He's a boxer. He is a mixed race kid who 1:07:20.000 --> 1:07:23.120 grew up in Pittsburgh. He's refused to go to the 1:07:23.880 --> 1:07:27.000 Olympics because he doesn't want any of Hitler's bullshit and 1:07:27.240 --> 1:07:30.440 he doesn't speak Spanish. So all he needed, oh he 1:07:30.480 --> 1:07:33.880 knows how to do. It's pick up a crowbar, start 1:07:34.040 --> 1:07:38.040 leavering up paving stones and helping to build a barricade 1:07:39.000 --> 1:07:45.040 the universal language, yeah, breaking ship. And so he just 1:07:45.080 --> 1:07:47.600 gets stuck in and now I'm rhythm do right. These 1:07:47.600 --> 1:07:49.280 barricades he built, like I said, they were so strong 1:07:49.320 --> 1:07:53.200 that they would stop like artillery across the city whipped 1:07:53.400 --> 1:07:56.440 and snaps of bullets cracked across the wide boulevards that 1:07:56.520 --> 1:08:00.120 cut through the regimented grid as the exemplar snipers were 1:08:00.160 --> 1:08:03.480 stationed in the bell towers of churches. They picked off 1:08:03.520 --> 1:08:06.200 the newly formed People's militiaies a dash between the barricades 1:08:06.240 --> 1:08:10.600 carrying ammunition of food. A French athlete the right wing snipers. 1:08:11.080 --> 1:08:14.240 That's correct. Yeah, yeah, so that you will definitely read it. 1:08:14.240 --> 1:08:18.000 They were priests, but they're not. I don't think, just 1:08:18.200 --> 1:08:20.000 a weird you know, if you're gonna put a sniper, 1:08:20.040 --> 1:08:21.120 then you want to put something up there who knows 1:08:21.160 --> 1:08:24.000 how chees a rifle. But yeah, that makes yes, yes, 1:08:24.040 --> 1:08:26.120 so they probably weren't pretty that doesn't mean the priests. 1:08:26.120 --> 1:08:28.400 We're not betting them. Surely were. It's some points, um, 1:08:28.920 --> 1:08:31.800 But yeah, this is why the churches get burned. It's 1:08:31.880 --> 1:08:35.599 one of the reasons. A group of German exiles suspected 1:08:35.640 --> 1:08:40.479 their companies diplomats might be involved, so they raided their 1:08:40.479 --> 1:08:46.479 homes and found massive statues of weapons, which is great. 1:08:46.720 --> 1:08:49.400 The Republic had very liberal asylum policies, So you have 1:08:49.439 --> 1:08:52.080 a town of German Italian anti fascists already in town 1:08:52.880 --> 1:08:56.280 and elsewhere. People found each other in the streets, were 1:08:56.320 --> 1:08:59.360 joined up with pre existing affinity groups to form Centuria 1:09:00.200 --> 1:09:02.519 Centorio is a Latin word for units for a hundred soldiers. 1:09:02.960 --> 1:09:05.600 They're broadly based on language, and they're named after some 1:09:05.720 --> 1:09:12.120 famous leftist like Tom Mann, Karl Marx or Salomon Rent 1:09:12.160 --> 1:09:17.320 their founder of Antifa with a capital uh. Later these 1:09:18.160 --> 1:09:21.160 would become the nucleus of the International Brigades. But the 1:09:21.160 --> 1:09:24.640 International Brigades were the army of the commintern and the 1:09:24.920 --> 1:09:30.920 Centuria went basically like under Soviet control. Yes, that's right 1:09:30.960 --> 1:09:34.120 there Soviet controlled communist internationals, so they would not trying 1:09:34.240 --> 1:09:37.400 lee stylist more or less right, and certainly like you 1:09:37.439 --> 1:09:39.920 can read our ship hand about the International Brigades going 1:09:40.000 --> 1:09:45.240 from a broad popular front leftist alliance to straight up 1:09:45.280 --> 1:09:48.439 stylist and what that does to their their desire to 1:09:48.479 --> 1:09:51.639 fight and their ability to fight. And I would suggest 1:09:51.640 --> 1:09:54.040 that it's not great, but it's a story as all 1:09:54.120 --> 1:09:58.400 the time, Yes it is. Yeah, draw your own conclusions. 1:09:58.400 --> 1:09:59.960 Cecil lb is very good on that if you want 1:10:00.080 --> 1:10:03.600 read his book. So these Centuria don't have officers, and 1:10:03.600 --> 1:10:07.040 they certainly don't have commissars. Right and off their roll 1:10:07.880 --> 1:10:12.559 too fight the Nazis. By eleven am, General Goddard has 1:10:12.600 --> 1:10:16.160 landed from New Yorker. He was hoping to command the city, 1:10:16.240 --> 1:10:18.240 which he The nationalists thought that the Backburner would be 1:10:18.240 --> 1:10:19.800 the easiest city for them, right, they thought it was 1:10:19.800 --> 1:10:25.840 a soft target. They were wrong. I don't know what again, Yeah, 1:10:26.200 --> 1:10:30.080 not smart. It was only through the intervention of Caddida, 1:10:31.479 --> 1:10:35.400 her son incidentally killed Trotsky, that his life was spared. 1:10:35.840 --> 1:10:38.559 He hold up in the headquarters. Headquarters was over run. 1:10:38.640 --> 1:10:41.760 They wanted to execute him immediately. She intervened. She says, no, 1:10:41.960 --> 1:10:43.920 you know, we've gotta we gotta do this pretended justice. 1:10:43.920 --> 1:10:45.960 So we put him on the prison ship of Uruguay 1:10:46.479 --> 1:10:48.840 and then he's killed a little later, after a court martial. 1:10:49.760 --> 1:10:52.120 He's executed a few weeks later in the mounch Wee Castle. 1:10:52.680 --> 1:10:55.080 That day in the mounch Wee Castle, the troops had 1:10:55.080 --> 1:10:58.000 shot their officers and the n c o s had 1:10:58.080 --> 1:11:00.000 lead did a raid on the armory where they began 1:11:00.000 --> 1:11:04.920 and distributing guns to anarchists. Again yeah, very cool, Yeah, 1:11:05.160 --> 1:11:08.719 I love to see it. The Cattle Left and the 1:11:08.840 --> 1:11:13.720 Catholic Church had some historical disagreements. Right, the Church had 1:11:13.720 --> 1:11:17.080 a long history of violence towards the left, and the 1:11:17.160 --> 1:11:19.639 left had equally long history of violence towards the church. 1:11:21.080 --> 1:11:26.040 The church had been part of brutal oppression of the 1:11:26.080 --> 1:11:30.960 working class, right victimization of people, especially of working class women, 1:11:31.040 --> 1:11:35.480 and as troops withdrew from the city in July, anarchists 1:11:35.479 --> 1:11:39.520 began to take revenge against the churches. Nun's corpses were disinterred, 1:11:39.920 --> 1:11:44.000 priests accused of collaboration were executed. By the afternoon, the 1:11:44.040 --> 1:11:46.960 sky began to fill with smoke. Churches burned all over 1:11:47.000 --> 1:11:50.000 the city. Sometimes they have these things called checkers, which 1:11:50.000 --> 1:11:52.680 are like revenutionary tribunals where they put the priests or 1:11:52.720 --> 1:11:56.840 the churches themselves. Later outside Madrid, there's a famous photo 1:11:56.840 --> 1:11:59.519 of them like executing a giant statue of Jesus tries 1:11:59.520 --> 1:12:04.360 so after put it on trial. That's watch in the 1:12:04.400 --> 1:12:07.800 future for Robert Evans is that is a pretty funny bit. 1:12:08.560 --> 1:12:12.559 It's good. There's a firing squad and everything. That is 1:12:12.600 --> 1:12:14.880 like a pretty good dedication to the bit. You've got it. 1:12:15.080 --> 1:12:16.800 Whether or not you agree with it, you have to 1:12:16.840 --> 1:12:21.439 respect it. Yeah, yeah, it's a good T shirt. Maybe 1:12:21.479 --> 1:12:25.799 we could return to merch and have that that image. 1:12:25.840 --> 1:12:28.400 But yeah, some Catholics rebuilt it. Daddy, it's it's no 1:12:28.479 --> 1:12:31.240 longer riddled with bullet holes in its face. Well, let's 1:12:31.280 --> 1:12:38.439 time to do well, yeah, you know what that means. Yes, 1:12:38.760 --> 1:12:45.360 it's time to kill God and storm heaven. Yeah, and 1:12:45.600 --> 1:12:51.400 redistribute all the stuff harps for everyone. Yeah. People wore robes. Actually, 1:12:51.760 --> 1:12:53.720 this became a bit of an issue because people will 1:12:53.760 --> 1:12:55.439 be like, lo, look at me, I'm wearing a robe. 1:12:55.439 --> 1:12:57.000 I pretend to be a priest. And then other people 1:12:57.040 --> 1:13:04.679 will be like, fuck you priest and shoot them. Yeah, 1:13:05.120 --> 1:13:07.880 I don't do that. Actually, ropes for everyone. Bad idea. 1:13:08.360 --> 1:13:10.840 At a time of anti clerical violence. What you can 1:13:10.960 --> 1:13:13.240 do is drink all the communion wine, which is what 1:13:13.280 --> 1:13:15.880 they did. I'm sorry. All the blood of Christ is 1:13:15.880 --> 1:13:18.080 what they're donk. Yes, yes, I'm sorry. Actually, I guess 1:13:18.120 --> 1:13:20.479 it only becomes that in the stomach. Yeah, no, I'm 1:13:20.520 --> 1:13:22.519 a bad Catholic. I don't remember any of this. Or 1:13:22.800 --> 1:13:25.639 it's just wine until they until they do the thing 1:13:26.400 --> 1:13:28.920 and say the words, and then there's something special happens. 1:13:29.000 --> 1:13:32.360 That's that's that's the the Eucharist. So it was the 1:13:32.439 --> 1:13:35.840 pre blood. Yeah, it's it's pretty glad. It's just sweet wine. 1:13:36.200 --> 1:13:40.920 M By the twenties, a July, the military was all 1:13:41.000 --> 1:13:42.760 but done for in a city, right, But they some 1:13:42.880 --> 1:13:46.120 of them had retreated back to their barracks immediately. They 1:13:46.160 --> 1:13:48.720 came out promptly, got shot up by a ship ton 1:13:48.720 --> 1:13:54.759 of people and went nope, and poll returned to the barracks. 1:13:55.200 --> 1:13:59.080 So smarter than the tourists at the hotel. Yes, although 1:13:59.760 --> 1:14:02.080 I know about that because these guys end up dying 1:14:02.160 --> 1:14:07.280 there and the tourists do not, the side one. But yes, yeah, 1:14:07.280 --> 1:14:11.920 idea true. Well I would be lying if I said 1:14:11.960 --> 1:14:15.599 the tourists do not, because one of those tourists does, 1:14:16.120 --> 1:14:19.160 a guy called Albert I'll Chacken. They called him chick. 1:14:19.720 --> 1:14:23.479 He was a coach of the team, community college professor actually, 1:14:24.240 --> 1:14:29.080 and he leaves, goes back to America and just can't 1:14:29.120 --> 1:14:32.600 deal with like missing. It's not so much at the 1:14:32.600 --> 1:14:34.439 guilt of not being there. It's and I think some 1:14:34.479 --> 1:14:36.040 of us maybe can relate to this in a way, right, 1:14:36.080 --> 1:14:40.000 like the missing of being there too, like that, Yeah, 1:14:40.120 --> 1:14:45.719 and how special it feels roberts off. Robert can relate 1:14:45.760 --> 1:14:47.599 to this, right, like sometimes it's some time you feel 1:14:47.640 --> 1:14:49.639 the most alive is when you're trying not to be dead. 1:14:50.160 --> 1:14:53.720 But also like this was a fucking awesome time right, 1:14:53.800 --> 1:14:56.599 Like the cops have joined the working class, the churches 1:14:56.640 --> 1:14:59.759 are on fire, the bosses are running for the hills, 1:14:59.840 --> 1:15:02.400 and the army has just had its ass handed to 1:15:02.479 --> 1:15:04.840 it by like a bunch of men and women in 1:15:04.880 --> 1:15:07.280 blue overrules. Like I can imagine. It felt pretty cool. 1:15:07.960 --> 1:15:10.880 And so he goes home and then he decided to 1:15:10.920 --> 1:15:13.559 come back. He comes back with his wife. His wife 1:15:13.600 --> 1:15:19.240 wins the first art therapy program for children traumatized by conflict. Yeah, 1:15:19.240 --> 1:15:22.600 that the the pictures are ECSD. I used to go 1:15:22.640 --> 1:15:25.559 sit with them all the time, just kind of I 1:15:25.600 --> 1:15:27.639 don't feels like a special place, like a nice connection. 1:15:28.080 --> 1:15:29.880 That's the kind of stuff that gets like left out 1:15:29.880 --> 1:15:33.439 of history too much, too rights. These contributions like and 1:15:33.479 --> 1:15:36.120 these like developments that come from political articles that are 1:15:36.160 --> 1:15:41.040 like not just the gun the Robert you know, or 1:15:41.160 --> 1:15:46.240 the you know, season of workplaces, but the developing of 1:15:46.400 --> 1:15:50.639 art therapy for people dealing with traumatic event that rules. Yeah, 1:15:50.720 --> 1:15:53.080 absolutely right, Like these people made homeward bombs, but they 1:15:53.120 --> 1:15:56.639 also made it easier for kids to process their trauma 1:15:56.960 --> 1:16:02.960 and like that's what anarchism is, folks. But yeah, Jenny Burman, 1:16:03.320 --> 1:16:09.519 they hyphenated their last names Berman Chaken, uh yeah, advanced, Yeah, 1:16:09.600 --> 1:16:15.040 highly progressive. Yeah, his wife Jenny was definitely the radical 1:16:15.280 --> 1:16:17.160 and she she sort of brought him on and he 1:16:17.200 --> 1:16:19.680 was like, yeah, fucking you got it. So yeah, he 1:16:19.680 --> 1:16:22.960 goes back. You can see the pictures at UCSD. They're 1:16:23.000 --> 1:16:27.040 online too. But Al dies in a sort of chaotic 1:16:27.040 --> 1:16:30.240 retreat to the International Brigade. No one knows where. Right, 1:16:30.400 --> 1:16:32.519 I'm trying to write a book about him, have some 1:16:32.600 --> 1:16:35.960 of his diaries. Just an inspirational guy in a lot 1:16:36.000 --> 1:16:39.000 of ways, very nice guy. He's also like he sort 1:16:39.000 --> 1:16:42.680 of draws a lot of disdain from the other passengers 1:16:42.720 --> 1:16:46.040 on the boat when they're crossing the first time, because 1:16:46.040 --> 1:16:48.200 the passages keep getting mad that the black folks and 1:16:48.240 --> 1:16:49.800 the white folks are eating at the same table at 1:16:49.800 --> 1:16:53.400 dinner from the popular Olympics team, and he's just like 1:16:53.479 --> 1:16:55.400 super mad at this and like why would you be 1:16:55.439 --> 1:16:57.920 that way? So it just keeps like getting And he 1:16:58.080 --> 1:17:01.840 is a wrestler, right, He's a collegiate wrestler. He at 1:17:01.880 --> 1:17:04.880 Olympic trials, just keeps getting in people's faces about it. 1:17:04.920 --> 1:17:10.280 I guess, which like, yeah, is I guess being an 1:17:10.280 --> 1:17:16.160 ally or something. But yes, Jenny Berman is in there's 1:17:16.200 --> 1:17:19.639 a film called The Good Fight, which is about the 1:17:19.680 --> 1:17:22.519 American volunteers, and you can see her talking about him. Cool, 1:17:23.160 --> 1:17:26.519 and yeah, I think it's it's obviously pretty difficult experience 1:17:26.520 --> 1:17:30.040 for her talking about him, but I'm sure the whole 1:17:30.040 --> 1:17:33.400 thing it's pretty rough, given you know, the things that 1:17:33.479 --> 1:17:37.320 happened afterwards. But yeah, again, I'm a wonderful person. She's 1:17:37.320 --> 1:17:39.880 passed away now. But yeah, actually it's it's the interview. 1:17:39.920 --> 1:17:41.920 It's the full interview with her that I'm waiting for 1:17:41.960 --> 1:17:44.720 us I can write about him, and yes, she does. 1:17:45.240 --> 1:17:47.519 Look at The Good Fight. It's a good film. So 1:17:47.560 --> 1:17:51.559 on the twenty July, the anarchists are assembling outside these barracks. Right, 1:17:52.600 --> 1:17:54.080 they had to support of the police, but I didn't 1:17:54.080 --> 1:17:58.519 want it anymore, and so they assembled their own troops instead, right, 1:17:59.080 --> 1:18:05.240 Gati Olivier, Abat de Sanio, Lascasso and anesome Chad Shit, 1:18:05.960 --> 1:18:09.240 and they do what the anarchists did at this time, 1:18:09.280 --> 1:18:12.679 which is they lead a frontal charge on the barracks 1:18:13.040 --> 1:18:18.519 where they are still machine guns, and so they are 1:18:18.760 --> 1:18:22.360 brave but perhaps not tactically astute. I've read about this 1:18:22.600 --> 1:18:26.559 where basically one of the problems that people had, like 1:18:26.640 --> 1:18:29.880 strategically about the anarchists is that the anarchists in Spain 1:18:29.960 --> 1:18:34.639 were so uh fervent in their beliefs that they basically 1:18:34.640 --> 1:18:37.280 were like, hooray, soon I will be a murder and 1:18:37.360 --> 1:18:40.759 like all charged the machine guns and like weren't always 1:18:40.760 --> 1:18:43.840 the most strategic is that map to your understanding? Or 1:18:44.800 --> 1:18:47.360 in the early days of the civil war, they're like 1:18:47.479 --> 1:18:50.200 because they have been raised for decades of propaganda of 1:18:50.200 --> 1:18:54.240 the deed, right uh, And like propaganda of the deed 1:18:54.439 --> 1:18:55.960 is is saying like, you know, like you can die 1:18:55.960 --> 1:18:57.799 as a hero and become an example to the working 1:18:57.800 --> 1:19:00.519 class and you will elevate the cause. So it's close 1:19:00.560 --> 1:19:03.919 to martyrdom as you can get in an atheist political 1:19:03.960 --> 1:19:07.960 belief I think. And yes, so they would just like 1:19:07.960 --> 1:19:11.840 like Ascarsa Ascarso is a famous anarchist leader. Ascarso is 1:19:11.840 --> 1:19:15.320 a guy who dies like literally leading the charge frontly 1:19:15.360 --> 1:19:18.280 on a machine gun at this time, at this barracks, right, 1:19:18.520 --> 1:19:21.080 he dies in less than twenty four hours after the 1:19:21.080 --> 1:19:24.800 war started. And he's a member of this Nostos group 1:19:24.920 --> 1:19:28.320 with the Routine and others and Garthie Oliver, and he's 1:19:28.360 --> 1:19:29.960 the one who gives his name to the pistol. Right, 1:19:30.000 --> 1:19:36.479 So in Talassa, the CMT, the the anarchists, anarchis single 1:19:36.560 --> 1:19:40.639 guests take over an arms factory, taken over, the workers 1:19:40.680 --> 1:19:42.800 run the factory, and they start making these pistols with 1:19:42.880 --> 1:19:45.640 his name. It's like the only gun that is not 1:19:45.880 --> 1:19:50.160 in some way morally compromised. So I guess in that 1:19:50.200 --> 1:19:52.000 sense he goes on to kill a lot of fascists 1:19:52.080 --> 1:19:55.600 and yeah, but yeah, they don't want the help of 1:19:55.600 --> 1:19:57.799 the police, they don't want the tactical advice. The Routie 1:19:57.800 --> 1:20:00.559 actually later is very good at this. He had regular 1:20:00.640 --> 1:20:03.439 army officers embedded with his column and he listened to them, 1:20:03.640 --> 1:20:05.360 and that allows him to be more successful than the 1:20:05.400 --> 1:20:12.559 other anarchists. But yeah, here the battle cries Atlantembre, which 1:20:12.600 --> 1:20:14.519 is like, you know, forward, men of the c NT. 1:20:15.360 --> 1:20:17.600 They had women to but I guess that's not what 1:20:17.680 --> 1:20:20.559 they were going for. And they took the barracks along 1:20:20.560 --> 1:20:24.160 with thirty thousand rifles. Pretty much all of those would 1:20:24.160 --> 1:20:25.800 be in the hands of working people within a couple 1:20:25.840 --> 1:20:29.640 of days. Yeah, there's a vast like this is a 1:20:29.760 --> 1:20:35.679 decent slice of the Republic's weapons until they get resupplied later. 1:20:35.880 --> 1:20:39.439 And interestingly, like the Soviet Union and Mexico supply them, 1:20:39.479 --> 1:20:42.320 but they the Republican government in Madrid doesn't want people 1:20:42.320 --> 1:20:46.920 supplying the anarchists, so only um CZ overzor the Czech 1:20:47.560 --> 1:20:51.960 Gun Company are willing to elicitly violate two different arms 1:20:51.960 --> 1:20:55.280 embargoes to supply the anarchists. Later in the worst yeah 1:20:55.720 --> 1:20:59.280 based cz Yeah, maybe we can have them be the 1:20:59.320 --> 1:21:03.840 advert for this episode. Finally, a a solid case for 1:21:03.880 --> 1:21:07.479 the hammer fired arm and in in modern days they 1:21:07.600 --> 1:21:13.240 have to honor the legacy of c Z. Yeah. Yeah again, 1:21:13.280 --> 1:21:17.160 the only the only morally correct firearm to buy. Wouldn't 1:21:17.200 --> 1:21:20.720 have done that? Motherfucker's Nope, No, I don't see any 1:21:20.720 --> 1:21:23.920 glocks in an anarchist hands. Uh yeah. By thirty two 1:21:23.960 --> 1:21:26.040 a c P because it also killed Hitler. It's the 1:21:26.040 --> 1:21:31.160 most anti fascist you can you can. Hitler killed Hitler, 1:21:31.240 --> 1:21:39.080 but you know we don't have to go there fascist. Yeah, 1:21:39.360 --> 1:21:42.960 critical support to Hitler, or you could say, yeah, well, 1:21:42.960 --> 1:21:47.320 you know who else tried to kill Hitler? Hitler he 1:21:47.400 --> 1:21:51.639 did once before in nineteen three after the failed Munich putsch, 1:21:52.160 --> 1:21:55.320 but his friend puts the han Stengel's wife, who he 1:21:55.360 --> 1:22:01.000 had a crush on, from killing himself which was a mistake. Yeah, yeah, 1:22:01.000 --> 1:22:03.800 she let the team down. So see that's where cz 1:22:04.000 --> 1:22:06.479 came in, giving him an efficient way to kill himself 1:22:06.760 --> 1:22:11.000 with no wives around. Did have a wive around, didn't he? See? Well, 1:22:11.280 --> 1:22:16.479 thank you, Sez. Hitler's dead. And with that, let's go 1:22:16.560 --> 1:22:21.519 back to Spain Catalonia. I guess um. So the French 1:22:21.560 --> 1:22:24.520 Popular Olympics team left that day. They sang the International 1:22:24.560 --> 1:22:26.639 Aisle from the deck of their boat as they pulled 1:22:26.680 --> 1:22:29.320 out the port. A few days later, on the Rambler 1:22:29.360 --> 1:22:32.839 Parade was organized. The various nations of the Popular Olympics 1:22:32.840 --> 1:22:37.559 march down the street led inexplicably buy some bagpipers who 1:22:37.560 --> 1:22:40.200 had arrived with the British team. Hell yeah, that's another 1:22:40.240 --> 1:22:45.360 international bag page. Yeah yeah, yeah, why why not? I 1:22:45.439 --> 1:22:48.280 love that? Like, yeah, some anti fascist bagpipers had been 1:22:48.320 --> 1:22:52.559 recruited by this point, and they all sang the International 1:22:52.640 --> 1:22:56.680 in their own languages, did the race fist salute that 1:22:56.720 --> 1:23:00.640 would become the popular French salute. And they heard a 1:23:00.680 --> 1:23:03.240 speech and in the speech they were told, you've come 1:23:03.280 --> 1:23:05.639 for the Games, but you have remained for the greater 1:23:05.720 --> 1:23:09.360 front in battling in triumph. Now your task is clear. 1:23:09.720 --> 1:23:11.679 You'll go back to your countries and spread the word, 1:23:12.320 --> 1:23:15.479 the news of what you've seen in Spain. So some 1:23:15.520 --> 1:23:17.639 of them went back and some of them stayed. All 1:23:17.640 --> 1:23:20.120 in all, about two hundred of them actually uh stayed 1:23:20.200 --> 1:23:23.320 to fight or came back to fight. Um. Some of 1:23:23.320 --> 1:23:26.680 their names Bill Scott. He was an irishman who came 1:23:26.720 --> 1:23:30.360 for the games. He he went back and forth between 1:23:30.360 --> 1:23:32.479 Spain and Island. A bunch wrote in. Some wrote some 1:23:32.560 --> 1:23:35.840 letters to newspapers to encourage other people to join. His 1:23:35.880 --> 1:23:38.160 big slogan was a victory for fascism in Spain is 1:23:38.160 --> 1:23:42.280 a victory for fascism in Ireland. Um the that's the 1:23:42.320 --> 1:23:46.120 same slogan that the other side used to write. Yes, 1:23:46.160 --> 1:23:49.040 but the Irish volunteers who fought for the fascists were 1:23:49.120 --> 1:23:55.400 fucking exceptionally useless. Yeah yeah, and may have excelled more 1:23:55.400 --> 1:23:57.439 than Iris volunteers who fought for the anti fascists. A 1:23:57.479 --> 1:24:03.920 killing fascist, which I guess critical support to them. Um. 1:24:04.120 --> 1:24:06.479 He fights in the Battle of Madrid, Bill Scott, we 1:24:06.600 --> 1:24:09.559 gets shot in the neck? Or will style do they go? Robert? 1:24:09.560 --> 1:24:12.040 Maybe they really were sticking their next out m hm. 1:24:12.680 --> 1:24:15.960 And you've got Otto Bosch. Otto Bosch was a lover 1:24:16.280 --> 1:24:19.680 of novelists and poet Muriel Rook isiser. He was a 1:24:19.680 --> 1:24:24.800 cabinet maker, sprinter and literally an actual card carrying Antifa member, 1:24:26.080 --> 1:24:29.439 and now he was a soldier. Um, he also died. 1:24:30.080 --> 1:24:31.600 The sad part about this part of the war is 1:24:31.640 --> 1:24:37.519 everyone dies pretty quickly afterwards. Yeah, yeah, it's really sad. 1:24:37.920 --> 1:24:40.800 These people are, you know, as good as people came 1:24:41.160 --> 1:24:43.599 and they all end up dead. But let's not talk 1:24:43.600 --> 1:24:46.599 about that. I whant to focus on the victorious part. Okay, 1:24:46.920 --> 1:24:52.160 So that evening right, Ruccioli there, and about this Anthion 1:24:52.439 --> 1:24:56.719 go and meet with compounds. Ascaso is dead right because 1:24:56.760 --> 1:25:01.000 he was on his heroics nest in their monos. They're 1:25:01.040 --> 1:25:04.960 still covered in blood and they're still carrying their weapons 1:25:04.960 --> 1:25:09.519 with bitches away. One should meet with a politician. So 1:25:10.720 --> 1:25:12.559 he gives them this little speech and I, like some 1:25:12.600 --> 1:25:15.080 people say it's apocryphal. I don't really give a funk. 1:25:15.080 --> 1:25:16.559 I think it's nice. I'm going to read it. It's 1:25:16.600 --> 1:25:19.720 not very long. Um. Firstly, I must say that the 1:25:19.720 --> 1:25:22.479 C and T and the FI have never been treated 1:25:22.479 --> 1:25:26.760 as a true importance merited. You have always been halfhly persecuted. 1:25:27.000 --> 1:25:29.840 And I with much regret was forced by political necessity 1:25:29.880 --> 1:25:32.320 to oppose you, even though I always once with you. 1:25:33.360 --> 1:25:36.080 Today you are the masters of the city and of Catalonia, 1:25:36.360 --> 1:25:39.439 because you alone have conquered the fascist military. And I 1:25:39.479 --> 1:25:41.240 hope that you will not forget that you did not 1:25:41.320 --> 1:25:43.800 lack the help of the loyal members of my party. 1:25:43.920 --> 1:25:47.040 But you have one and orders in your power. If 1:25:47.040 --> 1:25:49.400 you do not need me as president of Catalonia, tell 1:25:49.439 --> 1:25:51.559 me now, and I will become just another soldier in 1:25:51.560 --> 1:25:54.560 the fight against fascism. If, on the other hand, and 1:25:54.680 --> 1:25:57.080 you believe that I, my party, my name, my prestige 1:25:57.080 --> 1:25:59.640 could be of use, then you can depend on me 1:25:59.680 --> 1:26:01.559 in my yalty as a man who is convinced that 1:26:01.600 --> 1:26:06.080 the whole past of shame is dead. So that's nice. 1:26:06.360 --> 1:26:10.920 That that's cool. I mean, it's yeah, interesting, you know, right, 1:26:10.920 --> 1:26:13.160 it's fascinating. I think it's the clearest we get to 1:26:13.240 --> 1:26:15.639 a person at a time, being Like in the last 1:26:15.680 --> 1:26:18.360 twenty four hours, I have gone from president to a 1:26:18.400 --> 1:26:20.559 guy who has to ask the anarchist for a rifle 1:26:20.600 --> 1:26:25.599 so I can fight. Yeah, And like it's a you know, 1:26:25.920 --> 1:26:28.760 people get on that the Lensky stuff, but this is 1:26:28.800 --> 1:26:30.320 kind of different. I guess you know, like it's good 1:26:30.360 --> 1:26:34.479 to find someone who cares about a cause more than power. Yeah. 1:26:34.520 --> 1:26:37.280 As a rule, if it's your job to be in 1:26:37.360 --> 1:26:39.680 charge of people, I'm probably not a fan of that 1:26:39.840 --> 1:26:42.240 job existing. But if when it comes down to it, 1:26:42.800 --> 1:26:45.120 you you you throw down rather than the hide in 1:26:45.120 --> 1:26:47.879 a bunker or flee the country to live in exile 1:26:48.080 --> 1:26:51.280 in I don't know, whatever friendly country, then that's better 1:26:51.320 --> 1:26:56.439 than the alternative. Yeah, yeah, i'd agree, And I think, yeah, 1:26:56.439 --> 1:26:58.679 being more attached to this and to your self preservation 1:26:58.720 --> 1:27:02.040 or your power, I think is admirable. M For example, 1:27:02.120 --> 1:27:04.960 if Joe Biden had burned down the Third Precinct himself, 1:27:05.240 --> 1:27:07.200 I think a lot of people would feel more positively 1:27:07.240 --> 1:27:13.080 towards him. He did, though we're not supposed to talk 1:27:13.120 --> 1:27:14.960 about this on the podcast, guys, all right, you're right, 1:27:15.040 --> 1:27:19.840 this is this is yeah again wraps until the midterms 1:27:19.840 --> 1:27:23.760 really start to heat up. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's surprisive 1:27:23.840 --> 1:27:29.160 video of Joe Biden with a firebomb. I was told 1:27:29.160 --> 1:27:31.519 that he had a kind of ax body sprain of 1:27:31.600 --> 1:27:36.080 lighter mm hmmm. Yeah, that's how he normally roles when 1:27:36.080 --> 1:27:41.640 he's in block And al right, sorry, that image is 1:27:41.720 --> 1:27:45.000 like so cursed that I'm like Joe Biden and Block 1:27:46.520 --> 1:27:48.920 doing the smile like he's in the Camaro but just 1:27:49.000 --> 1:27:53.280 holding the ax body spin. But everyone can figure out 1:27:53.320 --> 1:27:56.000 it's him because he keeps touching people and everyone is 1:27:56.040 --> 1:28:01.680 get sniffing everybody's hair, asking if he can smell the 1:28:01.760 --> 1:28:10.599 inside of their bala clavas. Uncle Joe a hero, true 1:28:10.640 --> 1:28:15.679 anti fascist? Are you are you going dark Brandon on us? Oh? God, 1:28:16.400 --> 1:28:19.439 we are. We gonna have to explain what dark bread 1:28:19.479 --> 1:28:22.000 it is on the pod. I don't think we need to. 1:28:22.160 --> 1:28:26.000 I don't think that's ever going to be irrelevant. I 1:28:26.040 --> 1:28:28.320 think we'll just say let's go brand. Get up, kids, 1:28:28.439 --> 1:28:31.840 Just type dark Brandon into your Twitter search and see 1:28:31.840 --> 1:28:36.360 what happened and educate yourself right now. But please get yeah, 1:28:36.400 --> 1:28:38.200 please do because I don't have a clue. No, I 1:28:38.200 --> 1:28:40.320 have no idea what they're talking about. Yeah, I'm not 1:28:40.360 --> 1:28:43.599 on the internet enough and I don't think I ever 1:28:43.720 --> 1:28:46.759 want to be um So things go differently wan across 1:28:46.760 --> 1:28:50.200 the country right um the Navy. I'm waiting to hear 1:28:50.240 --> 1:28:56.680 Margaret squeal or scream or cry. I just don't understand, Okay. 1:28:57.040 --> 1:29:01.160 I think it's that he's a vampire. Yes, go fucking 1:29:01.200 --> 1:29:04.120 go ahead, tell us about dark brand. I don't know, 1:29:04.200 --> 1:29:09.760 it's just weird. I don't want to know. Yeah, you 1:29:09.760 --> 1:29:11.960 don't need to know. It's fine, Okay, it's it's a 1:29:11.960 --> 1:29:14.360 good time. It's it's it's a good time on the internet. 1:29:14.400 --> 1:29:17.920 That's on the dark Brandon is all right. The Navy 1:29:18.000 --> 1:29:21.080 doesn't fall for the coup, right, and this leads to 1:29:21.120 --> 1:29:29.360 this spectacular exchange between the crew of Him the James, 1:29:29.360 --> 1:29:32.160 the first Battleship right of the Ministry of Marine, Crew 1:29:32.240 --> 1:29:34.720 to Ministry of Marine. We have encountered serious resistance from 1:29:34.720 --> 1:29:37.840 the commands and officers on board crew to Ministry of Marine. 1:29:38.080 --> 1:29:41.200 We have subdued them by force. Urgently request instructions as 1:29:41.240 --> 1:29:45.160 to bodies. Ministry to Marine to crew, lower the bodies 1:29:45.240 --> 1:29:49.760 overboard with respectable solemnity. What is your present position? So 1:29:49.800 --> 1:29:51.800 what they've done there is the officers have declared for 1:29:51.840 --> 1:29:54.920 the crew for the coup, and the minute the sailors 1:29:55.000 --> 1:29:56.599 on board the ship have killed them and throwing them 1:29:56.600 --> 1:29:59.600 over the edge. Subdued by force, what do we do 1:29:59.640 --> 1:30:03.600 with the people we have subdued? Just the most amazing 1:30:03.760 --> 1:30:07.960 radio message like the officers turned out to be Rudd's 1:30:08.360 --> 1:30:10.439 and then like, brief pause, what do you want us 1:30:10.479 --> 1:30:15.760 to do with their bodies? Again? King? Shit. So it's 1:30:15.800 --> 1:30:18.840 a few days before the battle lines really get drawn 1:30:19.760 --> 1:30:23.200 as to who is where, who's on what side of 1:30:23.200 --> 1:30:25.000 the Spanish Civil War. It's a few days before it 1:30:25.000 --> 1:30:27.880 becomes clear that this is a civil war because without boats, 1:30:28.040 --> 1:30:30.679 the rebels seemed to be in trouble, but the Fascists 1:30:30.680 --> 1:30:32.320 came to their abe with planes to where lift the 1:30:32.360 --> 1:30:35.080 troops from Africa. The Republic had more troops and more 1:30:35.080 --> 1:30:36.760 access to supplies, and it looked like they were going 1:30:36.760 --> 1:30:39.120 to win a war of attrition. That doesn't work out 1:30:39.560 --> 1:30:42.519 because France, the UK, and the United States abandoned Spain 1:30:43.120 --> 1:30:47.120 and the Fascists do not abandon Franca. I don't really 1:30:47.160 --> 1:30:49.479 want to finish there. I want to backtrack and think 1:30:49.520 --> 1:30:52.080 about how many times in the past or the present 1:30:52.920 --> 1:30:56.160 the working class of a city is spontaneously organized to 1:30:56.200 --> 1:31:00.280 prevent an army from entering that city, and it's actually 1:31:00.280 --> 1:31:01.519 in the age of the tank and the bomber. I 1:31:01.520 --> 1:31:03.800 can't already think of any and I know if you 1:31:03.840 --> 1:31:06.200 guys can, but I couldn't come up with one. I 1:31:06.280 --> 1:31:11.200 got nothing. Yeah, anyone, I mean other than Kiev kind 1:31:11.200 --> 1:31:15.160 of yeah, some of it was at least spontaneous, but yeah, yeah, 1:31:15.280 --> 1:31:17.599 and it wasn't against their own army, like they had 1:31:17.600 --> 1:31:21.960 an army, no, that is, yeah, I mean you could 1:31:22.160 --> 1:31:24.880 there are pieces of that, and it was it was 1:31:24.960 --> 1:31:28.800 not as organized or clearly as successful in you know, 1:31:28.840 --> 1:31:34.639 the Holy Week uprisings and the Watts riots and stuff. Yeah, yeah, true, yeah, 1:31:34.880 --> 1:31:42.639 pieces of it. Yeah, I mean even like in Minneapolis, right, like, yeah, 1:31:42.840 --> 1:31:50.639 where the state didn't exist for a while. But uh, this, 1:31:50.640 --> 1:31:53.280 this revolution is somewhat unique at least in that right. 1:31:53.479 --> 1:31:58.360 And what happens afterwards and what happened in the Civil 1:31:58.439 --> 1:32:01.000 War isn't what I want to end on. You can 1:32:01.040 --> 1:32:05.200 see this kind of idea in ken Loach's film Land 1:32:05.240 --> 1:32:07.920 and Freedom, that that this was a romantic failure, and 1:32:07.960 --> 1:32:10.760 I don't think that's true. I think that the the 1:32:10.800 --> 1:32:13.600 only way for the Civil Water succeed was doing what 1:32:13.680 --> 1:32:15.760 it did. For the Republic to succeed was doing what 1:32:15.840 --> 1:32:17.760 it did well, and what it did well with harnessing 1:32:18.280 --> 1:32:21.200 the enthusiasm and passion of the working class people to 1:32:21.280 --> 1:32:24.200 build a better world for themselves. When it became not 1:32:24.280 --> 1:32:28.080 worth fighting and dying for something. Then the war was 1:32:28.120 --> 1:32:31.000 already lost for a lot of people. Trying to mass 1:32:31.040 --> 1:32:33.840 behind a conventional war effort doesn't make sense when your 1:32:33.920 --> 1:32:37.400 enemy has every advantage in a conventional war effort. But 1:32:37.520 --> 1:32:38.760 I don't want to focus on that. I want to 1:32:38.800 --> 1:32:42.439 focus on the last week, when the cities in the 1:32:42.479 --> 1:32:45.320 hands of the people, when there are no cops and 1:32:45.400 --> 1:32:48.280 no bosses, but people go back to work as collectives, 1:32:49.080 --> 1:32:51.800 when there's no money, but people distribute food to people 1:32:51.800 --> 1:32:54.880 who need it all across Spain, and not just at 1:32:54.880 --> 1:32:58.799 the bar of a gun. People collectivized, the collectivizing castile, 1:32:58.800 --> 1:33:02.080 and the socialized industry and Lentcia And it's a remarkable 1:33:02.120 --> 1:33:04.840 moment in human history, and it doesn't last more than 1:33:04.880 --> 1:33:08.799 a year, but I think it shows us that this, 1:33:08.800 --> 1:33:11.559 this other future was possible. Right. The path we took 1:33:11.560 --> 1:33:14.240 from six to the present day was not the best one, 1:33:15.160 --> 1:33:17.479 but I like to think that, just for just for 1:33:17.479 --> 1:33:21.679 a little while, it could have done better. And and 1:33:21.920 --> 1:33:23.479 I think that's where I want to end really, is 1:33:23.479 --> 1:33:28.559 thinking about how we could do better. And if people 1:33:28.600 --> 1:33:31.320 want to read books, Sister has already been a long episode, 1:33:31.360 --> 1:33:36.440 I will say Helen Graham's very short introduction is very good. Um. 1:33:36.479 --> 1:33:38.720 Anthony Beavo's newer book is good, and you can get 1:33:38.720 --> 1:33:42.599 an audiobook. Julian Casa Nova. It's one of my favorite 1:33:42.600 --> 1:33:44.760 writers in Spanish and some of his stuff is translated 1:33:44.760 --> 1:33:49.559 into English. Augustine Giarmad's book Ready for the Revolution on 1:33:50.560 --> 1:33:52.960 the affinity groups of the CNT and and Chris ellen 1:33:53.040 --> 1:33:57.240 stuff on Barcelona is excellent. And if you're in Barcelona, 1:33:57.479 --> 1:34:01.400 Nick Lloyd's Walking Towards are excellent. Yeah, that's hope. That's 1:34:01.479 --> 1:34:04.160 enough there. You can watch kind of loches film. You 1:34:04.200 --> 1:34:07.200 can watch I think it's called Parallel Mothers. That's on Netflix. 1:34:07.760 --> 1:34:11.120 A couple of good films. Yeah, thank you so much, 1:34:11.280 --> 1:34:15.519 Margaret again for joining me too, and hem me drone 1:34:15.520 --> 1:34:18.000 on about the Spanish Civil War for an hour and 1:34:18.880 --> 1:34:22.040 I'm into it. I didn't know, well, I I've only 1:34:22.080 --> 1:34:25.960 been learning the details more recently, you know, I've always 1:34:26.000 --> 1:34:29.360 just heard about it in in broad strokes and the like. 1:34:30.880 --> 1:34:32.439 You know, a lot of people like talking about what 1:34:32.479 --> 1:34:35.040 it means, right, But talking about what it means is cool. 1:34:35.520 --> 1:34:37.400 But the stuff that's like really interesting to me is 1:34:37.400 --> 1:34:42.280 the stuff that actually like makes it matter is the 1:34:42.280 --> 1:34:45.840 the person who shows up and you know, develops ways 1:34:45.880 --> 1:34:49.599 to deal with trauma by art therapy. And the people 1:34:49.640 --> 1:34:56.160 who bravely steal dynamite and become named named Rosa the Dynamite. 1:34:56.280 --> 1:34:59.920 What was what was her name? Yeah? Yeah, she los 1:35:00.160 --> 1:35:02.200 the hand. Yeah, it's better than Rose of the Riveter. 1:35:02.320 --> 1:35:05.400 I mean, no offense the Rose of the Riveter. But 1:35:05.560 --> 1:35:10.599 Rose of the Dynamiter is is is doing well? Um? 1:35:10.680 --> 1:35:15.160 What was it called? Dynamiter? Go after all of the libraries, 1:35:15.280 --> 1:35:21.679 keeping the books in prison free knowledge keepers of thought. 1:35:22.840 --> 1:35:28.000 I really like variants taken away get canceled, but I 1:35:28.120 --> 1:35:32.679 like libraries and librarians. You all aren't ready for this discourse, Margaret, 1:35:32.720 --> 1:35:43.400 But librarial comblematic. That's how we know you're a CIA 1:35:43.520 --> 1:35:49.200 asset because your pro library style. Yeah, exactly, classic capitalist infrastructure. 1:35:49.320 --> 1:35:51.560 What where did the CIA train all those people to 1:35:51.640 --> 1:35:54.400 overthrow governments? The School of the America's what does every 1:35:54.400 --> 1:35:58.720 school have library? Libraries? Is the problem because that's the 1:35:58.720 --> 1:36:01.120 School of America's is there's two things wrong with School 1:36:01.120 --> 1:36:07.400 of America's school and Americas. The problem is the school part. 1:36:07.600 --> 1:36:10.240 I think the real problem is School of the Americas 1:36:10.280 --> 1:36:14.439 that had school in the Dame and We can't have that. 1:36:14.439 --> 1:36:18.000 That is, that's an opressive, hierarchical system of learning. Unbelievable. 1:36:18.400 --> 1:36:21.400 If America Vespucci never came here, maybe things would be different, 1:36:22.000 --> 1:36:27.000 maybe even better. Anti Italian slander, I'm here for it. Well, 1:36:27.160 --> 1:36:31.160 let's all end on that note. Fuck Italy. Yeah, and 1:36:31.280 --> 1:36:33.719 funk traffic lights, Margaret. Do you have anything to plug? 1:36:34.680 --> 1:36:37.840 I do. People can get my they can pre order 1:36:37.920 --> 1:36:41.840 my book that is all about why traffic lights are bad. Um. 1:36:41.840 --> 1:36:43.519 It's called we Won't be here Tomorrow, and it's written 1:36:43.520 --> 1:36:44.920 from the point of view of a traffic light that no, 1:36:45.040 --> 1:36:48.120 it's knows it's about to be abolished. It's out from 1:36:48.200 --> 1:36:51.840 a k press Um who uses the red and black 1:36:51.840 --> 1:36:53.840 flag is the logo, and much like the anarchist in 1:36:53.840 --> 1:36:56.040 the Spanish Civil War who developed the red and black flag, 1:36:56.200 --> 1:36:59.880 which is to reference, of course, the negation of the red, 1:37:00.320 --> 1:37:03.680 because the red in the traffic light is what stops you, um, 1:37:04.200 --> 1:37:06.200 and so the black is the negation with the red 1:37:06.240 --> 1:37:09.120 in this in this case, and that's what happens when 1:37:09.160 --> 1:37:12.760 you disconnect a traffic light from power. It goes black. No, 1:37:12.880 --> 1:37:15.479 it's disconnecting ship, Robert. People are shooting the traffic light. 1:37:15.520 --> 1:37:17.880 And you know what a K Do you know what press? 1:37:17.960 --> 1:37:21.200 Do you know? Do you know what a k? Press? Cells? 1:37:22.280 --> 1:37:25.599 Books and and books? Where where do books get kept? 1:37:27.720 --> 1:37:31.840 That's right, that's right, it's all. It's your everyone is 1:37:31.840 --> 1:37:33.400 in on it. Okay. Well, if you don't want to 1:37:33.439 --> 1:37:35.559 be part of the evil world, you can do what 1:37:35.960 --> 1:37:38.559 is clearly good, which is listened to podcasts and create 1:37:38.560 --> 1:37:43.160 para of social relationships. Yes, the proletic medium of podcasting. 1:37:43.360 --> 1:37:45.520 And if you want to create a para social relationship 1:37:45.560 --> 1:37:48.680 with me, you can listen to my podcasts, one of 1:37:48.720 --> 1:37:50.439 which is called Live Like the World Is Dying. It's 1:37:50.439 --> 1:37:54.240 an individual and community preparedness podcast. And the other one 1:37:54.400 --> 1:37:56.240 is called Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff, which is 1:37:56.280 --> 1:38:00.360 all about people who defend libraries from people like you, 1:38:01.120 --> 1:38:08.240 um and anti anti learning, nihilist radicals. Yeah, anti lib reaction. 1:38:08.720 --> 1:38:14.639 That's right. That's right. That's it. That's that's what that 1:38:14.640 --> 1:38:19.120 that is why I fly the black and gray. I'll 1:38:19.160 --> 1:38:25.880 just watching alight, alright, Thank you wants to make me 1:38:25.960 --> 1:38:28.280 an an arccho goth flag that was black and then 1:38:28.320 --> 1:38:35.200 black lace. That's great, Thanks for I would fly that 1:38:35.640 --> 1:38:38.559 al right, Well, thank you for listening. James. Where can 1:38:38.560 --> 1:38:42.080 people find you online? I'm on the internet. You can 1:38:42.120 --> 1:38:45.880 just put in my name at James Stout on Twitter. Um. 1:38:46.400 --> 1:38:50.360 Sometimes I write things I will talk about in there. Great, 1:38:50.439 --> 1:38:52.120 well you can find me at I right, Okay, you 1:38:52.120 --> 1:38:55.800 can follow the show on by cool Stone Media and 1:38:55.800 --> 1:38:59.320 happened here pod and send any complaints to at Sorry 1:38:59.400 --> 1:39:07.280 no send no, send any complaints to. Okay, Yeah, it's okay. 1:39:07.320 --> 1:39:26.760 I don't read responses. Bye bye, bye, bye bye. It 1:39:26.800 --> 1:39:30.559 could happen here is the podcast that This is where 1:39:30.600 --> 1:39:35.000 we talk about things that are happening here. Generally things 1:39:35.280 --> 1:39:39.519 fallen apart um, sometimes things getting put back together. Today 1:39:39.800 --> 1:39:42.000 we have a story that I wasn't sure if we 1:39:42.000 --> 1:39:44.760 were ever going to cover. Um. In brief, we're going 1:39:44.800 --> 1:39:48.040 to be talking about a group called Black Hammer that 1:39:48.240 --> 1:39:55.200 is on its surface a leftist anti colonial political organization UM, 1:39:55.240 --> 1:39:57.840 and in reality is more or less occult. Um. The 1:39:57.880 --> 1:40:01.120 reason we're talking about them is that at someone is 1:40:01.160 --> 1:40:06.240 now dead connected with them. The story is interesting and 1:40:06.320 --> 1:40:09.759 messy and says a lot about the way social media 1:40:09.800 --> 1:40:13.040 works today and the way that the United States is 1:40:13.120 --> 1:40:16.080 essentially like forty different cults in a trench coat. UM. 1:40:16.160 --> 1:40:19.640 So uh, today, I'm here with James Stout and we 1:40:19.680 --> 1:40:24.640 are talking with journalist W. F. Thomas. H. Thomas? What 1:40:24.680 --> 1:40:26.240 do you? What do you? What do you? What do you? How? 1:40:26.400 --> 1:40:34.040 How are you doing today? Uh? Today is a day. Um, 1:40:34.040 --> 1:40:41.040 this story is stuff is still coming out. About an 1:40:41.040 --> 1:40:50.840 hour ago, charges were finally posted, um for the cult leader. Um, 1:40:50.880 --> 1:40:55.200 but that's further a long Yeah the story. You hear 1:40:55.360 --> 1:40:58.600 chirping in the background, those are for live chickens. So 1:40:58.720 --> 1:41:02.559 my apologies a little babies. I just got rabbits that 1:41:02.640 --> 1:41:06.760 I have now living in my my chicken facility, and 1:41:06.800 --> 1:41:09.559 they seem to be thriving. It's nice. I like having 1:41:10.280 --> 1:41:14.000 little animals around all right, So who are Black Hammer 1:41:14.840 --> 1:41:19.240 and how did how did they get to the present position? 1:41:19.320 --> 1:41:23.000 So I think we should probably start with like nineteen right, 1:41:23.080 --> 1:41:25.200 is kind of when these these folks sort of start 1:41:25.280 --> 1:41:31.640 to come on the scene. Yeah, Um, you know you 1:41:31.680 --> 1:41:38.640 could take this story back a lot further. Let's do that. Um. 1:41:38.720 --> 1:41:45.679 So sometime in the late eighties, Um, Augustus Romaine Jr. 1:41:45.760 --> 1:41:49.760 Is born. Um, this is the person we're commonly known 1:41:49.880 --> 1:41:57.960 as Gazikazo. Um. They used they then pronouns too. Would 1:41:57.960 --> 1:42:01.760 go on to be the leader of this group. Um. 1:42:01.920 --> 1:42:06.599 You know Caso grew up in Stone Mountain outside of Atlanta. UM, 1:42:06.680 --> 1:42:10.080 and in the early tens had kind of a lifestyle 1:42:10.080 --> 1:42:14.280 blogger YouTube thing going on. Um was a self professed 1:42:14.360 --> 1:42:18.799 Cosmos biggest fan, and generally seemed like they were trying 1:42:18.800 --> 1:42:22.680 to get famous. Yeah, like influencers style famous. Right, this 1:42:22.760 --> 1:42:26.960 was not at all political at this period. Yeah. And UM, 1:42:27.000 --> 1:42:29.080 that's gonna be kind of the red thread through this 1:42:29.160 --> 1:42:33.360 story is Caso. I'm gonna refer to them as Caso. 1:42:33.760 --> 1:42:36.679 I guess this remained junior. Um. Wanting to be famous 1:42:36.800 --> 1:42:42.360 is kind of, unfortunately the main thing that drives most 1:42:42.360 --> 1:42:46.479 of what has happened. Um. At some point, you know, 1:42:46.560 --> 1:42:52.000 in the mid um, Cardso took this turn and started 1:42:52.040 --> 1:42:56.439 making more incendiary videos. UM. I don't have them directly 1:42:56.439 --> 1:43:01.040 in front of me, so I don't want to misquote them. Um, 1:43:01.080 --> 1:43:04.400 but kind of like going out pushing this concept like 1:43:04.400 --> 1:43:10.120 white people are evil, going for this very specific type 1:43:10.720 --> 1:43:16.120 of leftism, and um Ghazi Caaso gets taken taken under 1:43:16.160 --> 1:43:18.360 the wing of and I'm going to mispronounce this name, 1:43:19.080 --> 1:43:24.040 uh O'Malley, Yes should tell um. And this is a 1:43:24.080 --> 1:43:26.639 person who is leading a group in St. Petersburg, Florida 1:43:27.160 --> 1:43:32.200 called the African People's Socialist Party UM and Africans People 1:43:32.280 --> 1:43:35.160 Socialist Party. It was part of this larger thing called 1:43:35.200 --> 1:43:39.719 the Huru Solidarity Movement. I don't know if they're still around, 1:43:39.720 --> 1:43:44.960 but you know their their ideology was third world communism, 1:43:45.000 --> 1:43:50.200 African internationalism, that type of thing. And what is Let's 1:43:50.240 --> 1:43:52.160 talk a little bit about the word of Huru, because 1:43:52.200 --> 1:43:54.479 that's something if you if you've ever been in and 1:43:54.520 --> 1:43:58.120 around Proud Boys. First off, I'm sorry, it's not a 1:43:58.120 --> 1:44:00.880 fun experience generally, but they they like to shout at 1:44:00.920 --> 1:44:04.320 huru um. And I understand that that's kind of related 1:44:04.400 --> 1:44:07.719 one way or they outed the other to this. Yeah, 1:44:07.960 --> 1:44:10.800 so um, I don't have it directly in front of 1:44:10.840 --> 1:44:14.800 me what or whuru means. But you know the reason 1:44:15.000 --> 1:44:18.599 help ways say that is because of Gazi Cazo. There 1:44:18.600 --> 1:44:23.720 are times several times when Caso spoke made appearances with 1:44:23.800 --> 1:44:30.160 Gavin Mcinness, founder of the Proud Boys, and Cazo generally 1:44:30.360 --> 1:44:34.360 became and still is treated as a loll cow um 1:44:34.439 --> 1:44:38.439 kind of this target for derision to poke at to 1:44:38.479 --> 1:44:41.759 see what is this person doing, which is still happening 1:44:41.800 --> 1:44:47.080 right now. Unfortunately, UM. You know, Caso rose through the 1:44:47.120 --> 1:44:52.200 ranks of this group UM and then eventually found out 1:44:52.240 --> 1:44:58.639 that this is basically a cult. The African People's Socialist 1:44:58.640 --> 1:45:05.320 Party UM had a specific focus on membership from colonized people, 1:45:05.360 --> 1:45:09.080 people of color UM, but it turns out this was 1:45:09.880 --> 1:45:12.920 being steered entirely by a group of white people. So 1:45:13.800 --> 1:45:17.919 it's out of the ashes of this experience, this abusive 1:45:17.960 --> 1:45:22.040 experience UM, this Coli group, Corso along with some other 1:45:22.280 --> 1:45:24.920 people leave this group and they go onto for a 1:45:24.960 --> 1:45:28.560 Black Hammer in February of two thousand nineteen, which the 1:45:28.640 --> 1:45:32.439 originally was the Black Hammer Organization UM. And there's some 1:45:32.479 --> 1:45:39.519 really good write ups, especially read Voice. Definitely recommend that, 1:45:40.680 --> 1:45:43.160 and there are I think you broke out for a second. 1:45:43.160 --> 1:45:45.160 So the title of that article is the Devil Wears 1:45:45.160 --> 1:45:48.439 a Dashiki. It's like six seven parts, but it's really 1:45:48.479 --> 1:45:51.120 good comprehence and that gets into a lot of what 1:45:51.240 --> 1:45:53.960 that's where I get a lot of this information from UM, 1:45:54.000 --> 1:45:57.800 and there were Additionally, what would happen is some of 1:45:57.840 --> 1:46:01.280 these people who founded this grew Black Hammer Organization, who 1:46:01.280 --> 1:46:06.640 are also parts of the African People's Socialist Party UM 1:46:06.800 --> 1:46:11.040 would disavow GHAZI Kadza would disabout Black Hammer and have 1:46:11.120 --> 1:46:14.040 kind of their own statement about here's what happened, you know, 1:46:14.080 --> 1:46:16.640 and which they say, Hey, we never recovered from this 1:46:16.760 --> 1:46:19.559 experience in this traumatic group, in this cult like group, 1:46:19.760 --> 1:46:22.160 and instead of went on to found this new one, 1:46:22.200 --> 1:46:25.320 and we're very you know, it was kind of failed 1:46:25.320 --> 1:46:29.360 from the start to become this other cult like group. 1:46:33.439 --> 1:46:36.880 So just to clarify on the hurry thing that it 1:46:37.000 --> 1:46:41.519 comes from the African People's Socialist Party, right, and then 1:46:41.600 --> 1:46:43.960 he's they have taken it and run with it in 1:46:44.080 --> 1:46:50.160 the Black Hammer organization. So the African People's Socialist Party 1:46:50.160 --> 1:46:52.160 was part of this umbrella or group called the Who 1:46:52.360 --> 1:46:56.920 Solidarity Movement. This group is still around if you look 1:46:56.960 --> 1:47:00.320 at like the Channel five with Andrew Callen and has 1:47:00.320 --> 1:47:02.360 a video where they go to this march for reparations, 1:47:02.560 --> 1:47:05.400 and that group is the Huger Solidarity Movement. Got it, 1:47:05.560 --> 1:47:10.559 Okay if you're familiar with that. Yeah, so we get 1:47:10.600 --> 1:47:15.880 this organization founded and kind of from what my perusal 1:47:16.040 --> 1:47:18.040 of because I've also you can go to their website, 1:47:18.080 --> 1:47:22.200 Black Hammer has like a news site. Um, they are 1:47:22.240 --> 1:47:25.280 kind of building uh oh yeah, yeah, they're they're kind 1:47:25.320 --> 1:47:32.120 of for now Yeah. They bill themselves as like an 1:47:32.160 --> 1:47:37.559 anti colonial organization that is specifically like um, like one 1:47:37.600 --> 1:47:39.639 of the things they do is they have like a 1:47:39.640 --> 1:47:42.320 white people's auxiliary that like is for the purpose of 1:47:42.320 --> 1:47:46.960 people paying reparations. Um. They have. You know, they carried 1:47:46.960 --> 1:47:51.040 out a couple of actual direct actions during including like 1:47:51.120 --> 1:47:54.880 handing out masks and whatnot. Um, but for the most 1:47:54.920 --> 1:47:59.000 part they seem to exist primarily to drive attention to 1:47:59.120 --> 1:48:03.920 themselves and thus donations via social media. And yeah, that 1:48:04.080 --> 1:48:07.280 that's that's I think if you've if you've personally interacted 1:48:07.280 --> 1:48:10.599 with Blackhammer propaganda at all, it is probably because you've 1:48:10.640 --> 1:48:13.080 seen someone on the internet talking about how Anne Frank 1:48:14.000 --> 1:48:17.840 is a Karen or something like that. Let's get into it. Yeah, 1:48:17.920 --> 1:48:20.920 let's talk about that. Yeah. Yeah. So, so I want 1:48:20.920 --> 1:48:23.640 to touch on something real quick that you mentioned, you know, 1:48:23.840 --> 1:48:27.080 in these comments from the people who found the organation, 1:48:27.160 --> 1:48:30.880 left the organization, these were these are still true believers 1:48:30.960 --> 1:48:33.960 who believe in this cause of de colonialization of African 1:48:34.000 --> 1:48:38.000 internationalism and who do want to build a better world 1:48:38.160 --> 1:48:41.840 and do good things. Um. You know, in talking with 1:48:42.040 --> 1:48:44.839 people have survived the cold, it sounds like Causo probably 1:48:44.880 --> 1:48:47.200 never was a true believer, but there weren't true believers 1:48:47.840 --> 1:48:51.400 around Causo who believed in this cause. Um and because 1:48:51.400 --> 1:48:55.479 about we're able to be abused, to be profoundly abused 1:48:56.280 --> 1:49:00.439 by Carso and the people working directly under Carso pozos 1:49:00.960 --> 1:49:08.519 behest um So April in a tweet, I believe uh, 1:49:08.720 --> 1:49:12.200 Caoso calls, and Frank Becky follows it up by how 1:49:12.280 --> 1:49:18.600 she's a Karen, which one is a ridiculous statement, two 1:49:19.439 --> 1:49:24.080 is entirely meant to cause this kind of uproar around that, 1:49:24.160 --> 1:49:28.520 you know. Um. Back at this time, there was acceptance 1:49:28.560 --> 1:49:32.519 of the Black Hammer organization in leftist circles, in that 1:49:32.600 --> 1:49:39.639 kind of online communist community, um, and there were people 1:49:39.640 --> 1:49:41.920 who came out kind of like, oh no, let's hear 1:49:41.960 --> 1:49:45.920 what they're saying about this, you know, talking about how victims. 1:49:45.960 --> 1:49:50.680 You know, the term genocide was invented to describe the Holocaust, 1:49:50.840 --> 1:49:54.840 but that term wasn't used to describe slavery that kind 1:49:54.840 --> 1:49:57.800 of thing, which, to be clear, is not the conversation 1:49:57.840 --> 1:50:00.680 that Caoso was trying to have. That was not, and 1:50:00.720 --> 1:50:03.479 that is a worthwhile conversation to have. Is like why, 1:50:03.680 --> 1:50:07.920 you know, like why is that not? Why is the 1:50:07.920 --> 1:50:10.200 the enslavement and like mass murder of a huge number 1:50:10.240 --> 1:50:12.240 of African people not seen as an act of genocide. 1:50:12.320 --> 1:50:15.880 Certainly a valid conversation to have, but also should not 1:50:15.960 --> 1:50:19.200 at all intersect with Anne Frank or how we think 1:50:19.200 --> 1:50:25.360 about the Holocaust. Yeah, and because we're living in hell. Yeah, 1:50:25.560 --> 1:50:28.760 this fake you know, kind of propped up, not a 1:50:28.800 --> 1:50:31.960 real discussion. It's meant to just piss people off. Is 1:50:32.040 --> 1:50:36.880 back again. Oh good, what a great time. Yeah. Based 1:50:36.880 --> 1:50:39.360 on documents that have come out that are purported to 1:50:39.520 --> 1:50:43.400 be from internal Black Hammer documents, this is part of 1:50:44.040 --> 1:50:49.439 their operation Storm of White Tears, um christ which was 1:50:49.439 --> 1:50:53.280 seemingly this and again I don't know for sure if 1:50:53.280 --> 1:50:55.360 these documents are from them, but these documents that are 1:50:55.360 --> 1:50:58.320 purported to be from block Hammer UM lay out this 1:50:58.400 --> 1:51:06.000 strategy to cause division two, kind of bring other groups down, 1:51:06.040 --> 1:51:10.040 to elevate Blackhammer's own status by putting themselves as the 1:51:10.080 --> 1:51:13.600 center of attention in all of this that is happening UM, 1:51:13.640 --> 1:51:19.320 in this online fiasco UM. Because again, the ideology is 1:51:19.360 --> 1:51:22.799 not the point. The attention is the point. The control 1:51:23.720 --> 1:51:27.760 is the point. Along this way, there's there's you know, 1:51:28.000 --> 1:51:31.519 there are a lot of allegations out there there are 1:51:31.560 --> 1:51:37.080 you know, for example, allegations that false, false allegations of 1:51:37.120 --> 1:51:39.800 pedophilia and sexual assault were used against people who left 1:51:39.840 --> 1:51:42.960 the group, people who spoke out against the group, that 1:51:43.280 --> 1:51:50.960 they were recruiting people on tinder. Um. Yeah, So along 1:51:51.000 --> 1:51:55.240 the way, some more chapters form. Um. There's one believe 1:51:55.320 --> 1:51:59.120 near Aurora, Colorado, or at least in Colorado. There's a 1:51:59.160 --> 1:52:02.560 New York City and and kind of the group continues 1:52:02.640 --> 1:52:08.479 to rise as almost you know, you know, your typical 1:52:08.560 --> 1:52:13.519 revolutionary communist cell that we have wait a few of 1:52:13.640 --> 1:52:16.800 in the United States going on right now. Um. The 1:52:16.920 --> 1:52:20.800 structure they purport to structure themselves around the tenets of 1:52:21.160 --> 1:52:27.599 democratic centralism as some of these other groups do, UM, 1:52:27.640 --> 1:52:31.160 which to dump things down a lot, and there's probably 1:52:31.160 --> 1:52:35.880 gonna be left is screaming at me right now. Um. 1:52:36.120 --> 1:52:39.160 Was this idea from Lenin where a group takes a 1:52:39.240 --> 1:52:42.719 vote and then if that vote passes, they all agree 1:52:42.760 --> 1:52:47.400 to go along with that platform with usually about UM, 1:52:47.520 --> 1:52:50.439 so that there's not kind of the splitting off of faction. 1:52:50.600 --> 1:52:54.560 So it can lead to this very centralized and hierarchical 1:52:54.560 --> 1:52:59.120 control structure. That's certainly what happened in Black Hammer. Um. 1:52:59.160 --> 1:53:02.280 There are other democratic sexualt groups that have been in 1:53:02.280 --> 1:53:07.720 the news lately who use a similar strategy. Um. But 1:53:08.160 --> 1:53:10.559 you know what this meant is it allowed gold cause 1:53:11.040 --> 1:53:17.120 it allowed Cadso to run this group with an iron fist. Um. 1:53:17.160 --> 1:53:21.200 You know, on paper, there were there was a group 1:53:21.200 --> 1:53:24.559 of people leading the group. Um, someone else was in 1:53:24.640 --> 1:53:28.719 control of the money, but in fact it was Cadso 1:53:28.920 --> 1:53:34.080 controlling all of this. Um. They also had you know, 1:53:34.160 --> 1:53:37.880 shared living spaces where members of different chapters of Black 1:53:37.920 --> 1:53:45.000 Hammer lived Hammer houses. Um. And that's always going to end. Well, yeah, 1:53:45.400 --> 1:53:49.840 don't Generally it's a good rule not to go live 1:53:49.920 --> 1:53:54.000 with the revolutionary cell you just joined. Yeah. If if 1:53:54.240 --> 1:53:57.000 you are joining a political party and they want everyone 1:53:57.040 --> 1:53:59.439 to live in the same space that is controlled by 1:53:59.439 --> 1:54:04.800 that political organization, you may in fact be joining a cult. Yeah. 1:54:04.920 --> 1:54:07.280 And you know there's there continues to be kind of 1:54:08.160 --> 1:54:11.920 trying to get more attention. At one point, you know, 1:54:12.680 --> 1:54:16.760 Caso starts beef with a local anti fascist crew in Colorado. 1:54:17.800 --> 1:54:20.920 You know, another thing to mention about this group is 1:54:21.160 --> 1:54:23.479 it's a lot of queer people in the group. You know, 1:54:24.000 --> 1:54:28.360 Gauzi identifies as non binary. There are you know, several 1:54:28.640 --> 1:54:32.200 many members who love people of the same sex. And 1:54:32.760 --> 1:54:35.840 you know, one of the things that happens as Gauzi 1:54:36.000 --> 1:54:40.800 is beefing with the local anti fascist crew. Is something 1:54:40.840 --> 1:54:42.720 that people are probably thinking of when they hear the 1:54:42.800 --> 1:54:46.640 name Gazzi Kozo. Is this bizarre video of Caso running 1:54:46.640 --> 1:54:53.320 around in joker makeup talking about white anarchists and anti fascists, 1:54:54.440 --> 1:54:56.560 which the background is actually even more funked up than 1:54:56.600 --> 1:55:00.880 you would I think having just heard that, UM as 1:55:00.920 --> 1:55:05.400 outline read voice goes into this specifically, UM, there were 1:55:06.360 --> 1:55:09.120 members of the group who were, you know, practitioners of 1:55:09.400 --> 1:55:14.480 Yoruba um, an African religion UM. And one of them 1:55:14.640 --> 1:55:17.760 was a trained UM. I don't know the correct term, 1:55:17.760 --> 1:55:20.560 so I'm just gonna say practitioner of this religion had 1:55:20.600 --> 1:55:24.640 gone through an education process in that that took some time. UM. 1:55:24.720 --> 1:55:29.320 And this video of Gazi running around and joker makeup 1:55:30.080 --> 1:55:35.480 was Gazi's idea too channel the DD issue and my 1:55:35.520 --> 1:55:39.760 apologies on mispronounced now which is a Euroba deity, you know. UM. 1:55:39.840 --> 1:55:42.160 And before this happened, apparently Gazi had brought this up 1:55:42.160 --> 1:55:44.400 to the person and the person said, that is extremely 1:55:44.440 --> 1:55:50.000 disrespectful of my religion. Don't do that. And Gazi did 1:55:50.000 --> 1:55:53.720 it anyway. Um. And this is you know, another one 1:55:53.720 --> 1:55:56.520 of the things where this gets sent around all the time, 1:55:56.680 --> 1:55:59.480 as you know, treating black Hammer as a lull cow. 1:55:59.600 --> 1:56:01.600 But you know, even osis was going on, there was 1:56:01.640 --> 1:56:05.160 this abuse that was going on as well and people 1:56:05.240 --> 1:56:10.680 being preyed upon by this group. Black Ham announces that 1:56:10.720 --> 1:56:14.520 they are planning to build Hammer City, which is supposed 1:56:14.560 --> 1:56:22.080 to be this utopian settlement in the Rockies. Um, you 1:56:22.080 --> 1:56:24.200 look like you have something you want to say. Well, 1:56:24.240 --> 1:56:28.640 I mean, look there, it's a perfectly normal dream to 1:56:28.720 --> 1:56:32.080 want to build a utopian settlement and the Rockies. There's 1:56:32.080 --> 1:56:34.360 some downsides to that. One of them is that the 1:56:34.440 --> 1:56:37.080 Rockies is actually a terrible place for a large number 1:56:37.120 --> 1:56:41.200 of people to live. Um. And this is why repeatedly, 1:56:41.240 --> 1:56:43.720 I don't know, there's been a lot of utopian settlements 1:56:43.760 --> 1:56:45.920 out in that part of the world, and they don't 1:56:45.920 --> 1:56:49.480 tend to last very long or they turn into normal towns. 1:56:49.560 --> 1:56:53.560 But it's it's it's always interesting when folks try, when 1:56:53.560 --> 1:56:56.400 folks want to do a commune type situation and then 1:56:56.400 --> 1:56:58.480 they immediately go for a place like that, because like 1:56:58.520 --> 1:57:00.480 the mountains is the hardest place to do it. If 1:57:00.480 --> 1:57:05.040 you want to have a self sufficient commune like fucking Kansas, 1:57:05.080 --> 1:57:09.120 you know, Arkansas, like somewhere where the soil is good 1:57:09.160 --> 1:57:11.280 for growing stuff and you can get like a flat 1:57:11.320 --> 1:57:14.040 track attractive land that can grow food as opposed to 1:57:15.040 --> 1:57:18.680 high alpine elevations where very little is gonna anyway. Whatever. 1:57:18.800 --> 1:57:27.480 This is compound talk, um, So yeah, there's there's If 1:57:27.480 --> 1:57:30.520 there's one thing you take away from this episode, don't 1:57:30.520 --> 1:57:32.960 build your compound in the Rockies. Don't build a compound 1:57:33.000 --> 1:57:38.800 in the Rockies. Look, Okay, that's all. That's all I got. Yeah, 1:57:38.840 --> 1:57:41.320 that's a that's a messages podcast, unless you're the tenaceous 1:57:41.400 --> 1:57:44.920 Unicorn Ryan, which case go right ahead. But yeah, and 1:57:45.120 --> 1:57:46.920 then you gotta think you know what they're doing, which 1:57:47.000 --> 1:57:50.360 is raising alpaca as opposed to relying on like growing crops, 1:57:50.400 --> 1:57:52.920 which makes a lot of sense. Yeah. I didn't actually 1:57:53.000 --> 1:57:55.720 see any advanced I was just looking at their at 1:57:55.720 --> 1:57:59.160 the Harmas City website. If they just told they just 1:57:59.200 --> 1:58:04.720 say sustainable farming, I can't see advanced plans. Pratt. They 1:58:04.720 --> 1:58:08.800 could raise a hundred and twelve thousand dollars. Yeah, according 1:58:08.840 --> 1:58:11.600 to their website, they raised dred and twelve thousand dollars 1:58:11.600 --> 1:58:17.160 so far. Okay, yeah, okay, that's more on this project. Yeah, 1:58:17.560 --> 1:58:21.680 really interested to know how much money they actually raised. Um, 1:58:22.560 --> 1:58:24.880 maybe it was that much. The point is we don't 1:58:24.920 --> 1:58:27.440 really know because there's no there was no kind of 1:58:27.560 --> 1:58:32.160 open record keeping within this group. Um. And it was 1:58:32.240 --> 1:58:35.600 Cazo who was in control of the money. So the 1:58:36.120 --> 1:58:40.160 group found land to buy, and they actually began the 1:58:40.240 --> 1:58:47.200 process of a land deal in early they and and 1:58:47.240 --> 1:58:50.680 this is some information now coming from a fantastic Colorado 1:58:50.720 --> 1:58:55.160 Sun article about the whole Hammer City thing um that 1:58:55.200 --> 1:58:57.520 I also recommend if someone wants to read more in 1:58:57.560 --> 1:59:01.160 depth about this. So as the landual was in the 1:59:01.200 --> 1:59:04.840 process of going through, a portion of the group moved 1:59:04.840 --> 1:59:09.560 out there. So about two dozen people this was This 1:59:09.680 --> 1:59:14.160 wasn't you know, it was remote, but it wasn't on 1:59:14.280 --> 1:59:17.160 top of a mountain. This was in a subdivision that 1:59:17.240 --> 1:59:22.000 had parcels for sale, which leads to some problems. And 1:59:22.000 --> 1:59:25.560 this this is a subdivision with the homeowners association and 1:59:25.560 --> 1:59:28.320 strict limits on land use as well. So they didn't 1:59:28.320 --> 1:59:31.680 have water rights for one thing, Yeah, exactly, they didn't 1:59:31.680 --> 1:59:35.560 have water rights to land. Um, which I have not 1:59:35.720 --> 1:59:39.640 started compound, but I imagine water rights is something you 1:59:39.680 --> 1:59:41.680 want to have figured out if you if you just 1:59:41.760 --> 1:59:43.520 want to live in a plot of land in the 1:59:43.560 --> 1:59:46.440 middle of nowhere, it can be fine. If you want 1:59:46.440 --> 1:59:49.280 to grow crops, then yeah, having the ability to irrigate 1:59:49.320 --> 1:59:53.520 said crops is kind of important. Yeah. So another thing 1:59:53.560 --> 1:59:58.320 at this time is Black Hammer tends to be a 1:59:58.320 --> 2:00:01.520 pretty heavily armed group. You know, the group moved out 2:00:01.600 --> 2:00:04.440 to this land. They were camping out. They're basically squatting 2:00:04.760 --> 2:00:08.200 on the land that they did not own, and brought 2:00:08.240 --> 2:00:12.480 their you know, armed security along with them. UM. And 2:00:12.640 --> 2:00:18.000 we're also like blogging road access for residents of the subdivision. UM. 2:00:18.040 --> 2:00:22.880 So they they had neighbors, you know, and UM. At 2:00:22.920 --> 2:00:25.879 one point, this leads to an altercation with a neighbor 2:00:26.240 --> 2:00:30.840 UM with three armed Black Hammer members UM. And a 2:00:30.920 --> 2:00:35.640 neighbor driving his car who you know, according to this 2:00:35.640 --> 2:00:39.200 Colorado Sun article, gets out with an unloaded shotgun and 2:00:39.280 --> 2:00:42.720 there's a standoff. This could have been one of those 2:00:42.720 --> 2:00:46.600 things that went really bad. It went about as good 2:00:46.640 --> 2:00:49.440 as you can hope a situation like that can go 2:00:49.520 --> 2:00:56.200 where UM, nobody got killed. UM. But while this was happening, 2:00:57.160 --> 2:00:59.680 the member of Black Hammer, who was responsible for the 2:00:59.760 --> 2:01:03.880 land deal. I forgot to sign or didn't sign the 2:01:03.920 --> 2:01:08.600 paperwork on time. Um and after information comes out about 2:01:08.600 --> 2:01:13.280 the standoff, the land deal completely falls through. There is 2:01:13.320 --> 2:01:15.520 no hammers to be that is going to be built 2:01:16.560 --> 2:01:21.400 UM and cadso was maintaining in black Hammer as a whole, 2:01:21.440 --> 2:01:24.760 is maintaining a superactive social media presence at this time 2:01:24.800 --> 2:01:28.280 as well. So you know, one of the other things 2:01:28.280 --> 2:01:29.880 that gets brought out is like this video of them 2:01:29.880 --> 2:01:32.960 talking about, oh, we built this bridge on our land, 2:01:33.520 --> 2:01:35.480 which is kind of a bunch of two by force 2:01:35.520 --> 2:01:41.480 across the ditch. Yeah. Are they planning to buy UM 2:01:41.560 --> 2:01:46.600 in and then as like an organization or as kinds 2:01:46.640 --> 2:01:49.240 are planning to buy themselves as an individual? Between know 2:01:50.000 --> 2:01:53.640 they This is actually something I did some research on UM. 2:01:53.720 --> 2:01:58.280 They did this fun thing. They created a front group, 2:01:58.400 --> 2:02:02.240 a front organization to buy the land nice which they 2:02:02.240 --> 2:02:08.160 called Hammerstone Industries Incorporated. Yeah, it's stealthy. They one of 2:02:08.200 --> 2:02:10.920 the member, one of the prominent members, was responsible for that. 2:02:11.040 --> 2:02:15.800 So power of Google. Yeah. I also found their bitcoin 2:02:15.880 --> 2:02:17.840 what what we were talking and it has never had 2:02:17.880 --> 2:02:22.760 any donations and it remains empty. Oh my god, Yeah, 2:02:23.120 --> 2:02:27.560 that one has it gone well? Ah? So after this 2:02:28.720 --> 2:02:31.120 land deal falls through, hammer City is not being built, 2:02:31.800 --> 2:02:34.960 a lot of people get really fucking piste. But also 2:02:35.160 --> 2:02:38.080 it sounds like they shot through the real estate sign 2:02:38.120 --> 2:02:41.280 on their way out of the stuff division. So on. 2:02:41.280 --> 2:02:46.160 On the seventeenth, that is when the group leaves hammer City. UM. 2:02:46.400 --> 2:02:50.880 So going back to what Robert mentioned earlier, UM, the 2:02:50.920 --> 2:02:54.720 group took a very i'll say interesting approach when COVID 2:02:54.800 --> 2:02:59.200 nineteen started, UM, which is the belief that COVID nineteen 2:02:59.280 --> 2:03:02.240 is real, that we should wear masks and be protected, 2:03:03.160 --> 2:03:05.960 but that they should not take the vaccine, and that 2:03:06.000 --> 2:03:11.800 fought Fauci was a liar, which comes out a bit later. So, 2:03:11.800 --> 2:03:13.960 so they were doing, for example, there's a there's a 2:03:14.000 --> 2:03:18.160 news article with a video of them doing mutual aid 2:03:18.200 --> 2:03:23.120 distribution of masks and food in Colorado. So lots of 2:03:23.120 --> 2:03:27.080 people are really fucking pissed UM when Hammer City falls through. 2:03:27.480 --> 2:03:33.120 There's also been you know, these allegations that have been 2:03:33.160 --> 2:03:35.760 coming up again and again UM. And at this point, 2:03:35.840 --> 2:03:41.840 several chapters break apart from Black Hammer, UM break away 2:03:41.880 --> 2:03:43.760 from Caso and kind of go off and do their 2:03:43.760 --> 2:03:48.600 own thing. UM, and Caso is left with this core 2:03:48.680 --> 2:03:53.840 group of members UM kind of true believers and says, 2:03:53.920 --> 2:03:58.040 fuck it, We're moving to Atlanta. So the group does 2:03:58.440 --> 2:04:03.120 a marathon drive on Colorado to the southern suburbs of 2:04:03.160 --> 2:04:06.040 Atlanta and outside of Atlanta's where cause that grew up 2:04:06.040 --> 2:04:11.760 on the east side, UM from the northeast. UM. And 2:04:11.840 --> 2:04:16.920 they keep going. They rent a house where everyone lives together, 2:04:18.080 --> 2:04:20.520 another one of their hammer houses. I believe at this 2:04:20.560 --> 2:04:24.120 time there is another active chapter that is still connected 2:04:24.120 --> 2:04:30.280 with CASO and the Carolinas as well. UM. But you 2:04:30.320 --> 2:04:35.560 know this is a when prophecy fails moment for Caso UM. 2:04:35.640 --> 2:04:37.880 And the people that are left behind are these true 2:04:37.920 --> 2:04:42.440 believers UM. And CASA doesn't take this well, it doesn't 2:04:42.480 --> 2:04:45.960 take the failure of this deal well, becomes even more 2:04:46.000 --> 2:04:49.120 paranoid than they already were, more controlling and more abusive 2:04:49.600 --> 2:04:53.480 than they already were. So there's the Red Voice gets 2:04:53.480 --> 2:04:58.120 into some of the really wild allegations that come out 2:04:58.520 --> 2:05:04.480 at this time. Allegedly, CARSO has members sign over UM 2:05:04.480 --> 2:05:08.080 control of the bank accounts to them at gunpoint, as 2:05:08.120 --> 2:05:13.040 people reveal personal information at gunpoint. And again these are allegations. 2:05:13.040 --> 2:05:18.160 I'm not saying godso did this UM that we get 2:05:18.800 --> 2:05:23.320 some of these classic cult techniques coming out, forcing people 2:05:23.360 --> 2:05:26.960 to sit and listen to Caso kind of preach, having 2:05:27.000 --> 2:05:32.960 people constantly working, not getting enough to eat, um, having 2:05:33.040 --> 2:05:37.840 you know, love bombing where God where Caso makes you know, 2:05:37.960 --> 2:05:40.200 deep eye contract with the person, talks about how important 2:05:40.240 --> 2:05:43.920 they are, how much they love them, and the consumption 2:05:43.960 --> 2:05:48.520 of psychedelics as well. Cool, that's good. Yeah, yeah, you 2:05:48.600 --> 2:05:51.840 love to hear that. Um. Yeah, just a bunch of 2:05:51.840 --> 2:05:57.240 heavily armed people being cops for each other and drugging 2:05:57.280 --> 2:06:01.160 each other in support of I don't Charismatics seems like 2:06:01.200 --> 2:06:03.560 a weird word for ghazi, but it must be right, Like, 2:06:03.600 --> 2:06:06.880 clearly it works on some people. Yeah, I think they 2:06:07.080 --> 2:06:09.720 think they are charismatic, right, Like I think it's necessarily 2:06:09.920 --> 2:06:12.240 they are to be good to be charismatic, but no 2:06:12.520 --> 2:06:16.840 good as some people seem to be responding to their 2:06:17.560 --> 2:06:20.240 I don't know the way they present themselves. It's so 2:06:21.240 --> 2:06:23.240 I guess that's always the way with cults, right that, 2:06:23.360 --> 2:06:25.960 Like to the outside, the cult leader is always an 2:06:25.960 --> 2:06:29.640 obvious cult leader, but everybody's got different things they're vulnerable 2:06:29.800 --> 2:06:32.960 do and and for some people that's well. And I 2:06:32.960 --> 2:06:34.760 also I said, I think a lot of it is 2:06:35.000 --> 2:06:38.720 they have like presented themselves differently in different periods and them, 2:06:38.760 --> 2:06:41.440 I think from what I've been reading, it sounds like 2:06:41.440 --> 2:06:43.880 a decent chunk of the folks who were kind of 2:06:43.880 --> 2:06:45.920 most deeply wrapped up and it have been with it 2:06:45.960 --> 2:06:47.840 for a while, so they've kind of followed along with 2:06:47.880 --> 2:06:51.040 Ghazi as they've you know. Yeah, and this is a 2:06:51.040 --> 2:06:55.000 group that preyed upon young people, preyed upon queer people, 2:06:55.920 --> 2:06:58.560 preyed upon on a house, people, preyed upon people of 2:06:58.600 --> 2:07:02.120 color who are out there in sections you know of 2:07:02.280 --> 2:07:08.680 oppression in our society, um, and disagree. Like most cults, 2:07:09.120 --> 2:07:11.800 it offered them a cause, a purpose, something to fight for, 2:07:12.000 --> 2:07:16.080 something to do, friends roof over their head even you know, 2:07:17.200 --> 2:07:21.120 um yep, which is a huge part of it, right 2:07:21.160 --> 2:07:24.040 because if you if this, if this place is not 2:07:24.120 --> 2:07:27.760 just your social circle but also your safety net, and 2:07:27.840 --> 2:07:29.560 like how you keep roof over your head and how 2:07:29.600 --> 2:07:32.920 you stay fed and you don't have close ties to 2:07:33.000 --> 2:07:35.960 family or maybe your family aren't people that you can trust. 2:07:36.080 --> 2:07:38.880 Like I mean, again, it's not a different story than 2:07:38.880 --> 2:07:40.640 you get in a bunch of other cults, but like 2:07:40.720 --> 2:07:44.400 this is yeah, it's it's it's a very frightening situation 2:07:44.480 --> 2:07:47.000 for those people to wind up in. And of course 2:07:47.160 --> 2:07:50.040 one of the things that is unfortunate is that so 2:07:50.120 --> 2:07:52.720 much of the stuff that the Blackham Organization said and 2:07:52.800 --> 2:07:55.880 did is so absurd that like it leads to this 2:07:55.960 --> 2:07:58.120 kind of mockery of anybody who gets wrapped up in 2:07:58.160 --> 2:08:00.280 it and the people who are very much vic dyms 2:08:00.320 --> 2:08:01.880 of it, which I think is also one of the 2:08:01.920 --> 2:08:03.920 things that makes it harder to leave, right, is that 2:08:04.320 --> 2:08:08.240 siege mentel and outside. That's where the term collegnitive dissonance 2:08:08.280 --> 2:08:13.360 comes from, specifically people, right, you know, when when things 2:08:13.360 --> 2:08:16.160 that go according to plan stick with this group and 2:08:16.240 --> 2:08:18.880 you know, have already given always so much of their time, 2:08:18.960 --> 2:08:20.600 so much of their life in any of their connections, 2:08:21.560 --> 2:08:24.880 that they just roll with it. Yeah, And then there's 2:08:25.840 --> 2:08:28.000 I'm just thinking back to a story I wrote years ago. 2:08:28.040 --> 2:08:30.720 Were fortunate enough to interview someone who's like an expert 2:08:30.760 --> 2:08:33.880 on these small cults, and they had actually been a 2:08:33.920 --> 2:08:36.920 survivor of I think it was a trotsky Is cult, 2:08:37.640 --> 2:08:40.680 so they were very familiar. They like, this group exhibits 2:08:40.680 --> 2:08:43.320 all those patterns, right, like the charismatic leader that you mentioned, 2:08:43.360 --> 2:08:45.720 the use of their own language, the control of their 2:08:45.760 --> 2:08:50.440 relationships and their contacts inside and outside the group. Yeah, 2:08:50.520 --> 2:08:53.600 and then they mirror this like very positive. It seemed 2:08:53.600 --> 2:08:55.600 to like, just look at their aesthetics after you mentioned 2:08:55.600 --> 2:08:57.840 it that they're definitely sort of seeking to mirror that 2:08:58.240 --> 2:09:02.360 like Black Panther Party as sthetic, right, which is obviously 2:09:02.360 --> 2:09:05.400 something that has, for good reasons, very postive associations for 2:09:05.400 --> 2:09:08.680 a lot of people. So I can see they've constructed 2:09:08.720 --> 2:09:11.920 it's very appealing package. But yeah, and now there's a 2:09:12.000 --> 2:09:15.480 body right now, a person has died connected, let's get 2:09:15.520 --> 2:09:18.800 to the station. So yeah, let's talk about this. So 2:09:18.840 --> 2:09:24.000 in Atlanta is where things get really wacky basically, as 2:09:24.080 --> 2:09:27.600 is often the case with Atlanta, has is often the 2:09:27.600 --> 2:09:31.360 case with this beautiful, beautiful city owned by Coca Cola 2:09:31.400 --> 2:09:34.720 and home depot with with I have to admit it 2:09:34.720 --> 2:09:38.400 as a Texan the best barbecue in the South, that's true. 2:09:38.440 --> 2:09:42.680 Excellent Ethiopian food as well. I was there this weekend. Yeah, yeah, 2:09:42.720 --> 2:09:48.200 fucking amazing, fucking amazing Ethiopian Ethiopian food. Yeah. Big refugee population, 2:09:48.360 --> 2:09:53.520 that's besides the point. So you know, cause I was 2:09:53.520 --> 2:09:58.960 found themselves in this city without a ton of money, um, 2:09:59.040 --> 2:10:01.680 and so needs to get more attention, needs to appeal 2:10:01.760 --> 2:10:06.200 to more people. So this is when Causo announces that 2:10:06.360 --> 2:10:09.080 Black Hammer is forming a coalition with the Proud Boys, 2:10:09.360 --> 2:10:11.560 which is one of those things that comes out and 2:10:11.600 --> 2:10:15.160 really sensationalized headlines but doesn't actually happen. What happens is 2:10:15.200 --> 2:10:19.280 cause of goes on a podcast with Gavin McGinnis and 2:10:19.320 --> 2:10:22.120 they talked about we have so much in common and 2:10:22.160 --> 2:10:25.760 there's you know, a little toast evidence of actual organizing 2:10:25.840 --> 2:10:28.640 or work together between the two groups. But with this 2:10:29.120 --> 2:10:34.200 group like this, no, especially because Gavin doesn't organizing anymorevolving 2:10:34.320 --> 2:10:37.800 problems anymore. What was the podcast they went on? Stead 2:10:37.800 --> 2:10:42.080 of interest? Daniel cut that and add in the entire 2:10:42.440 --> 2:10:45.560 audio from b movie condensed into a two second blast 2:10:45.680 --> 2:10:50.280 like we talked about, you know, the group gets more 2:10:50.280 --> 2:10:55.200 attention to that. UM. They start talking about how great 2:10:55.280 --> 2:10:58.040 Trump is, how much do they love Trump, how Fauci 2:10:58.160 --> 2:11:02.400 is evil? UM. Because again, ideology is not the point. 2:11:02.680 --> 2:11:04.800 The attention is. And this is how you continue get 2:11:04.800 --> 2:11:10.720 attention by acting ridiculous, UM, by asking Trump voters to 2:11:10.760 --> 2:11:13.640 donate money to you. UM. And at this time they 2:11:13.680 --> 2:11:18.440 also begin an extremely aggressive fundraising campaign in the city 2:11:18.440 --> 2:11:23.360 of Atlanta. So there's a park in downtown Atlantic called 2:11:23.360 --> 2:11:27.520 Woodroff Park that has a huge on housed population. Because 2:11:27.520 --> 2:11:31.000 our city is about at being a city and it's 2:11:31.520 --> 2:11:35.200 it's just back but Black Hammer there there are other groups. 2:11:35.200 --> 2:11:37.280 There are other e leftist groups that do mutual aid 2:11:37.400 --> 2:11:40.160 that help people out in the park. Black Hammer says, 2:11:40.200 --> 2:11:42.560 we're gonna do this too, you know. So they'll go 2:11:42.680 --> 2:11:46.440 there and have these sessions where they're screaming into a 2:11:46.480 --> 2:11:52.680 megaphone about whatever, UM and you know, handing out clothes 2:11:52.720 --> 2:11:55.880 and some food to unhoused people. UM. And they also 2:11:57.080 --> 2:12:00.960 start setting there. The members of their group pretty much 2:12:01.000 --> 2:12:03.960 every day of the week two go out into the 2:12:04.000 --> 2:12:07.480 Steve Atlanta and ask people for money on the streets UH, 2:12:07.480 --> 2:12:15.400 in their matching branded Blackhammer t shirts and masks. A 2:12:15.440 --> 2:12:19.720 site to see and yeah, so this is what they 2:12:19.760 --> 2:12:24.760 call their robin Hood campaign. UM. They specifically target college 2:12:24.800 --> 2:12:31.360 campuses at Georgia State University and Georgia Tech especially UM 2:12:31.360 --> 2:12:34.200 with the idea that college kids have a lot of 2:12:34.240 --> 2:12:40.840 money to give away. It's not a great idea, UM, 2:12:40.920 --> 2:12:43.400 but they do this aggressive fundraising where they you know, 2:12:43.720 --> 2:12:46.640 follow people and if they don't take no Franchwis say, oh, 2:12:46.640 --> 2:12:48.720 you don't care about homeless people, you don't care about 2:12:48.800 --> 2:12:53.120 unhoused people. Um, you know, you just have so much 2:12:53.160 --> 2:12:58.360 white privilege and really attacking people. Um, which is great. 2:12:58.440 --> 2:13:01.520 When you're coming home, you're riding your bike home and 2:13:01.520 --> 2:13:08.880 then you keep passing Black Hammer members m outside of uh, 2:13:09.200 --> 2:13:13.080 you know, on your commute home. Not fun. Yeah, And 2:13:13.360 --> 2:13:15.680 they appear, you know, on the belt Line, which is 2:13:15.720 --> 2:13:20.000 this kind of public green space and shared walking space 2:13:20.040 --> 2:13:24.400 in Atlanta. Um. They do this outside of concert venues. 2:13:25.240 --> 2:13:29.000 You know. I went to see The Dead Kennedy's and 2:13:29.080 --> 2:13:30.720 as I was walking into the venue, a Black Hammer 2:13:30.720 --> 2:13:33.320 guy asked me for money. I have to explain to 2:13:33.320 --> 2:13:36.160 the guy in front of me handing them five dollars, 2:13:36.720 --> 2:13:38.600 this is an anti semitic colt. You don't want to 2:13:38.600 --> 2:13:44.879 do that. And they they're also taking in unhoused people. Um. 2:13:44.920 --> 2:13:48.480 You know there's this video of of one of the 2:13:48.520 --> 2:13:51.920 lieutenants saying, you know, we want to get you, the 2:13:52.040 --> 2:13:56.560 unhoused people to come fundraise for us. You know, if 2:13:56.560 --> 2:13:58.680 you come fund raise for us, you can keep half 2:13:58.680 --> 2:14:02.160 of it slay and whoever fundraises the most in this 2:14:02.200 --> 2:14:05.600 week gets to cume live with us at the Hammer House, 2:14:08.120 --> 2:14:12.200 so it's pretty fucked up, you know. Um there's a 2:14:12.240 --> 2:14:17.280 case where a professor at Georgia State University, because these 2:14:17.280 --> 2:14:21.600 people the blood can't remembers out there every day all day. Um, 2:14:21.920 --> 2:14:24.120 this is what they do, this is their job, this 2:14:24.160 --> 2:14:27.440 is how the group makes money, you know, calls them 2:14:27.440 --> 2:14:29.960 out and says, hey, stop asking for money here. I 2:14:30.000 --> 2:14:33.640 know you're a cult. And a member follows the professor 2:14:33.680 --> 2:14:36.720 and films her, you know, and specifically films her license 2:14:36.760 --> 2:14:41.000 plate and says, we got you. For example, members are 2:14:41.120 --> 2:14:45.520 arrested for having a megaphone in Woodruff Park and get 2:14:45.560 --> 2:14:47.280 some of their guns taken away when the rest because 2:14:47.320 --> 2:14:50.080 they're in the park with a bunch of guns. You 2:14:50.240 --> 2:14:55.240 just have guns out. Yeah, Yeah, it's Georgia, which sometimes 2:14:55.480 --> 2:14:58.120 is cool when the Proud Boys show up and anti 2:14:58.120 --> 2:15:02.280 fascists have guns, but it's not not great when black 2:15:02.280 --> 2:15:08.200 hammers doing that. Definitely, tracking following people who criticize you 2:15:08.320 --> 2:15:10.840 in taking pictures of their license plate to try to 2:15:10.920 --> 2:15:15.760 docks them online is not at all cult behavior. They 2:15:17.320 --> 2:15:21.000 attack X members. They leak the addresses of the family 2:15:21.000 --> 2:15:24.280 of X members and their social Security numbers as well 2:15:24.640 --> 2:15:27.080 because they had them give them all this information at gunpoint. 2:15:28.320 --> 2:15:31.880 They seem to get very close to encouraging people to 2:15:31.960 --> 2:15:35.640 shoot cops in a couple of pieces on their website 2:15:35.640 --> 2:15:39.760 as well, they talked about killing white people a lot. 2:15:40.640 --> 2:15:47.240 Eventually in Yeah, in two, they have this rally outside 2:15:47.240 --> 2:15:49.840 of the CNN Center and solidarity with the January six 2:15:50.160 --> 2:15:56.960 political prisoners. UM. Along the way in Gauzy claims to 2:15:57.000 --> 2:16:03.840 find have found Jesus and uh, Black Camera becomes a 2:16:03.920 --> 2:16:08.840 religious group, you know. They they turned their mutual aid 2:16:08.880 --> 2:16:11.800 distribution into what they're calling the Revolutionary Church, which of 2:16:11.840 --> 2:16:16.320 course is filmed in live streamed. They have several live 2:16:16.440 --> 2:16:19.200 streams that they do regularly throughout the week that are 2:16:19.240 --> 2:16:24.800 mandatory for members to attend. UM. You know, there there 2:16:24.960 --> 2:16:28.080 is corporal punishment going on within the group of people 2:16:28.120 --> 2:16:33.920 living at the house UM and and the people that 2:16:33.959 --> 2:16:37.160 they're picking up off the street. It's not just adults, 2:16:37.160 --> 2:16:41.240 it's kids as well, UM cause of claims to have 2:16:41.280 --> 2:16:45.880 the sixteen year old that they have adopted. UM and 2:16:46.240 --> 2:16:48.400 you know, cause of post these videos of them giving 2:16:48.400 --> 2:16:51.200 the sixteen year old guns and money and clothes to 2:16:51.200 --> 2:16:57.600 where um the kid gets taken into state custody, um, 2:16:57.720 --> 2:17:03.040 before the current thing that we're taught talking about. Um, 2:17:03.040 --> 2:17:05.080 and this is going to be important later on in 2:17:05.080 --> 2:17:12.000 the story. Um. Yeah. So there are also these stories 2:17:12.040 --> 2:17:14.959 from members who have escaped, who have to do these 2:17:14.959 --> 2:17:17.199 elaborate escape attempts to get out because they're not allowed 2:17:17.200 --> 2:17:19.800 to leave, who have to kind of run away in 2:17:19.840 --> 2:17:21.360 the middle of the night with none of their stuff 2:17:21.520 --> 2:17:24.879 through a thunderstorm to get out. So this is what 2:17:24.920 --> 2:17:28.400 we're dealing with. All right, everyone, it's James here, and 2:17:28.440 --> 2:17:31.320 I just wanted to correct a couple of things from 2:17:31.360 --> 2:17:34.400 the episode or add to them. One of them was 2:17:34.440 --> 2:17:37.720 the date of that shooting, be it murder or death 2:17:37.760 --> 2:17:43.279 Bay suicide. That was the nine of July, note of February, 2:17:43.600 --> 2:17:45.560 and so it happened about a week ago at the 2:17:45.600 --> 2:17:47.200 time that you will hear this if you hear this 2:17:47.240 --> 2:17:50.520 on the day that we put out. Secondly, I also 2:17:50.600 --> 2:17:53.360 just wanted to give some context to the word huru. 2:17:53.640 --> 2:17:58.400 It's Swahili word means freedom or independence, and it was 2:17:58.520 --> 2:18:02.360 used as part of a a backronym, which is when 2:18:02.440 --> 2:18:03.840 when a group has a name with them, they create 2:18:03.879 --> 2:18:07.720 an acronym that fits to that name, and the word 2:18:08.200 --> 2:18:10.000 huru was part of a backronym for a group called 2:18:10.040 --> 2:18:15.720 the Mau Mau Revolutionary anti colonial group who existed in Kenya, 2:18:16.280 --> 2:18:18.120 and the word of Huru was used a decent amount 2:18:18.120 --> 2:18:21.879 of ACTI colonial struggles in Kenya in the backronym. The 2:18:21.920 --> 2:18:27.120 backronym is miszoom end Ufrica Party or Huru let the 2:18:27.160 --> 2:18:30.840 foreigners go home, Africa should be independent, will be independent. 2:18:31.720 --> 2:18:34.959 I suppose I just wanted to give that context. And 2:18:35.000 --> 2:18:39.039 obviously it's been appropriated now by by the Proud Boys, 2:18:39.120 --> 2:18:43.200 but that is part of the etymology of the word. 2:18:44.280 --> 2:18:51.760 And then we get to um, what happened on February two. Um, 2:18:51.840 --> 2:18:55.280 you know, this is an ongoing story, so the fact 2:18:55.959 --> 2:18:59.240 what we know might be changing. But early in the morning, 2:18:59.480 --> 2:19:03.760 someone is one and talks about being held hostage by 2:19:03.800 --> 2:19:07.160 an organization, by a group. They don't give the address, 2:19:07.240 --> 2:19:11.000 but the police are the authorities are able to track 2:19:11.000 --> 2:19:16.920 the number to this house in Fayetteville stuburb south of Atlanta. UM, 2:19:16.959 --> 2:19:23.199 and show up and they see someone is outside walking 2:19:23.200 --> 2:19:27.080 a dog who runs away. That person gets arrested. Um, 2:19:27.120 --> 2:19:29.879 that's a member of Black Hammer. They see someone kind 2:19:29.879 --> 2:19:34.200 of waving from the garage seemingly in distress. UM and 2:19:34.240 --> 2:19:37.000 the police are able to get that person out, they 2:19:37.000 --> 2:19:39.400 asked that the rest the people in the house come 2:19:39.400 --> 2:19:44.280 out as well. UM. About ten people come out and 2:19:44.840 --> 2:19:50.240 one person remains inside. Now by about two pm, with 2:19:50.320 --> 2:19:55.560 the use of an explosives ordinance, with the use of 2:19:55.560 --> 2:20:00.320 an EO D A bomb robot UM, the police enter 2:20:01.320 --> 2:20:04.360 the building. UM. The SWAT team goes in and they 2:20:04.400 --> 2:20:08.560 find one person dead of a gunshot wounds to the head, 2:20:09.280 --> 2:20:14.080 which we at this current time we don't know the 2:20:14.120 --> 2:20:17.360 full details on that might not ever hopefully something comes out. 2:20:18.080 --> 2:20:22.160 Carso is being held, you know, the group is kind 2:20:22.200 --> 2:20:27.120 of like sitting around outside, not in handcuffs, but being 2:20:27.120 --> 2:20:32.359 held by the group. UM and Caso does what Causo 2:20:32.440 --> 2:20:37.560 does and starts to live stream. So here's a clip 2:20:37.720 --> 2:20:42.240 from this thirty minute live stream Facebook live that Causo does. Look, 2:20:42.360 --> 2:20:45.959 there's a lot of media girls, so this is just 2:20:46.080 --> 2:20:48.280 going to build me up at the end of the day. 2:20:50.520 --> 2:21:01.520 So thank you. H SO. If you think that no 2:21:01.800 --> 2:21:05.040 I am concerned anything like that, you're out of your mind. 2:21:06.640 --> 2:21:10.280 M at the end of the day, they're still breath 2:21:10.320 --> 2:21:13.400 in my body. I still run an amazing revolutionary party, 2:21:13.879 --> 2:21:17.480 our community is epping with us, and now all these 2:21:17.520 --> 2:21:20.640 news channels are going to want to interview us, and 2:21:20.680 --> 2:21:22.520 we're going to get to communicate about all the great 2:21:22.520 --> 2:21:28.279 work that we are doing here. So this is great 2:21:28.800 --> 2:21:32.280 at the end of the day. So my chickens coming 2:21:32.320 --> 2:21:38.760 home to roost is more more media, more followers, more 2:21:39.640 --> 2:21:44.080 you know, advancement of work, more movement, more greatness, and 2:21:44.120 --> 2:21:49.720 so be it, sweetheart. Things like this have a non stops. 2:21:50.840 --> 2:21:58.200 Movements are readers before, so not even overcome. This is 2:21:58.520 --> 2:22:01.879 a great moment, right comment. This is a great moment, 2:22:02.440 --> 2:22:07.360 a moment where no voices will be amplified and our 2:22:07.360 --> 2:22:11.880 mission cause will be informed. Well that's cool. I like 2:22:12.480 --> 2:22:16.280 that he clearly understands the gravity of the loss of 2:22:16.320 --> 2:22:20.199 a human life. So I will say this is probably 2:22:20.240 --> 2:22:26.360 before it became someone was dead. But the point is 2:22:26.360 --> 2:22:30.720 that this is exactly what Cauds have wanted, was this attention. 2:22:31.080 --> 2:22:35.960 Yeah they seem pumped. They seem pumped and also like deranged. 2:22:37.040 --> 2:22:40.800 Yeah yeah, yeah, that wasn't how it envisioned them speaking 2:22:40.800 --> 2:22:44.480 at all. It's sort of very almost like calming, and 2:22:44.640 --> 2:22:47.920 they seem very very calm in a tone of voice. Yeah, 2:22:48.959 --> 2:22:50.960 I mean calm, but like, I don't know, I see 2:22:50.959 --> 2:22:54.879 an edge to him, but maybe that's any reading. Um, 2:22:54.920 --> 2:22:58.400 so do we know more detail about, like what happened 2:22:58.440 --> 2:23:01.680 with that person who died? Oh, I don't want to 2:23:01.720 --> 2:23:05.480 mention the name of the person. Um this place, this 2:23:05.560 --> 2:23:09.800 is a minor too, right. This is so the person 2:23:10.000 --> 2:23:13.480 who is killed, who's dead now, was not was not 2:23:13.600 --> 2:23:15.400 the sixteen year old. The sixteen year old was already 2:23:15.400 --> 2:23:19.200 in state custody weeks ago. I believe, Um, this is 2:23:19.240 --> 2:23:21.440 an eight According to the what the group has said 2:23:21.440 --> 2:23:23.760 and other survivors that I have spoken with, this is 2:23:23.879 --> 2:23:26.680 an eighteen year old the group took in off of 2:23:26.720 --> 2:23:30.240 the street. Um, there's a kid, you know who wanted 2:23:30.280 --> 2:23:34.040 to be a rapper, who had dreams. Um. You know, 2:23:34.160 --> 2:23:38.200 according to black cameras, own media, they made this person 2:23:38.240 --> 2:23:40.959 their minister of defense. That's a good job for an 2:23:40.959 --> 2:23:44.320 eighteen year old who's dead now because of this group, 2:23:45.120 --> 2:23:48.400 potentially from a self inflicted gunshot wound, which that is 2:23:48.440 --> 2:23:54.240 the case came about because of KASO putting that eighteen 2:23:54.320 --> 2:23:59.320 year old in this situation. Yeah, so dirty south right, 2:23:59.360 --> 2:24:01.440 watch the news. They have a really good threat that 2:24:01.480 --> 2:24:05.879 I also recommend about this happening. It seems like the 2:24:05.920 --> 2:24:11.120 local news they started covering the story and the am 2:24:11.240 --> 2:24:14.720 when it was happening, but didn't quite make the connection. 2:24:15.040 --> 2:24:18.280 There's there's one article it's out there from a local 2:24:18.320 --> 2:24:26.080 news site that just interviews Gazzi Kozo, homeowner of the house. Yeah, 2:24:26.240 --> 2:24:29.720 so that happens, one of the members of the group 2:24:29.800 --> 2:24:33.359 is immediately charged and booked. It's a really fucked up situation, 2:24:33.400 --> 2:24:37.039 you know. There there's like an unhoused individual who that 2:24:37.200 --> 2:24:41.320 who who other good activists were in touch with, who 2:24:41.879 --> 2:24:44.000 are at the house when this happened, because this person 2:24:44.080 --> 2:24:47.760 had no other choice but it was live outside or 2:24:47.840 --> 2:24:52.680 go with black Hammer went through all of this happening 2:24:53.240 --> 2:24:55.800 um and then it was still on how it was 2:24:55.800 --> 2:24:59.920 still on housed. After all this happened, Canso was arrest 2:25:00.080 --> 2:25:06.199 did and booked. The charges didn't come out until an 2:25:06.240 --> 2:25:11.440 hour before we started recording. The charges are two accounts 2:25:11.480 --> 2:25:15.520 of participation in streaking activity, two accounts of aggravated assault, 2:25:15.920 --> 2:25:19.160 two accounts of kidnapping, two accounts of false imprisonment, two 2:25:19.160 --> 2:25:22.280 accounts of conspiracy to commit a crime, and I'm gonna 2:25:22.280 --> 2:25:25.720 talk about this one one account of sodomy which in Georgia, 2:25:26.040 --> 2:25:31.280 the sodomy law refers to non consensual oral or anal 2:25:31.360 --> 2:25:34.920 sex or oral and anal sex performed with the minor 2:25:36.480 --> 2:25:39.520 got you so one way or the other that they're 2:25:39.520 --> 2:25:45.640 being accused of sexual assault. Yes, the other person arrested 2:25:46.080 --> 2:25:50.840 um was charged with the same crimes, except not sodomy 2:25:52.160 --> 2:25:56.880 officer instruction instead, presumably because they fled. And that's where 2:25:56.879 --> 2:26:01.760 we're at. That's where we're at right now. Cool. Well, 2:26:03.080 --> 2:26:07.320 that's rough. Yeah, it's it's a pretty bleak story. But 2:26:08.000 --> 2:26:09.760 I don't know at this point. We will probably be 2:26:09.800 --> 2:26:12.360 hearing more as this case blows up, and there's always 2:26:12.400 --> 2:26:14.880 the chance that you know, the rights going to wind 2:26:14.920 --> 2:26:17.600 up adopting it to try to, you know, make it 2:26:17.640 --> 2:26:20.920 into a left wing bad kind of deal. So when 2:26:20.920 --> 2:26:23.600 we yeah, yeah, I mean, we'll see what kind of 2:26:23.680 --> 2:26:28.080 legs it gets. But it's important to understand both what's 2:26:28.120 --> 2:26:30.280 happening here because a person is dead and a lot 2:26:30.360 --> 2:26:32.600 of people have been hurt, and also kind of broadly 2:26:33.160 --> 2:26:35.959 the trends that are at play here, the way like 2:26:36.040 --> 2:26:39.360 cult dynamics can intersect with radical politics, I think is 2:26:39.400 --> 2:26:41.400 important for people to be aware of because this kind 2:26:41.400 --> 2:26:44.080 of thing isn't going to get less common as ship 2:26:44.080 --> 2:26:49.600 continues to unravel. Yeah, and if there's some takeaways, if 2:26:49.640 --> 2:26:53.720 someone can leave this with you know a few points 2:26:53.800 --> 2:26:56.920 that the people who we're in this group, they are 2:26:57.000 --> 2:26:59.600 victims in the situation. They were preyed upon by this 2:26:59.680 --> 2:27:04.920 abuse of person because they were in a vulnerable state. Um. Anyone. 2:27:05.200 --> 2:27:08.080 This could happen to anyone who falls on hard times, 2:27:08.120 --> 2:27:11.360 who has a bad enough day and then someone comes 2:27:11.360 --> 2:27:18.520 in and offers them this that they say yes, you know. Um. 2:27:18.640 --> 2:27:24.560 The the other thing is to know about groups that 2:27:24.600 --> 2:27:27.160 are out there before you get involved. Do your research, 2:27:27.320 --> 2:27:32.480 listen to voices that might be critical of the group. Um, 2:27:32.520 --> 2:27:37.120 I know what you're getting yourself into. There are other 2:27:39.560 --> 2:27:42.400 sensibly left as groups out there who will not as 2:27:42.440 --> 2:27:47.240 abuse of as Black Hammer. Um, have cases of abuse 2:27:47.440 --> 2:27:50.440 coming out of them that gets covered up. Yeah, it 2:27:50.520 --> 2:27:53.960 might be good for us just to just to suggested 2:27:54.000 --> 2:27:56.959 if folks find themselves in a difficult situation on someone 2:27:57.000 --> 2:27:59.120 they know is in is in one of these situations, 2:27:59.120 --> 2:28:02.600 like maybe we can linked to some resources in the 2:28:02.680 --> 2:28:11.880 notes or something. Yeah, aren't Yep, there's not there's not 2:28:11.920 --> 2:28:14.640 a whole lot of committed to me that I've been 2:28:14.680 --> 2:28:20.720 trying to find. It's probably Stephen Hassan's book, which um 2:28:21.040 --> 2:28:23.800 sawn is also he's an expert in the field, but 2:28:23.800 --> 2:28:26.360 he's also the guy who talked about how Trainning Hitno 2:28:26.480 --> 2:28:34.440 Mind Control porn was. Yeah, he's got he's problematic. Yeah, well, 2:28:34.520 --> 2:28:36.520 I mean part of the reason that this is such 2:28:36.520 --> 2:28:38.800 a problem is that there's very little in terms of 2:28:38.840 --> 2:28:42.000 good resources or good writing. One of the things that is, like, 2:28:42.240 --> 2:28:45.160 there's good writing analyzing cults, very little of it will 2:28:45.160 --> 2:28:47.200 give you much that's useful in terms of how to 2:28:47.240 --> 2:28:49.279 get people out of cults, for a couple of reasons, 2:28:49.280 --> 2:28:52.360 including the fact that, as we talked about earlier, what 2:28:52.600 --> 2:28:56.800 makes people vulnerable, people aren't vulnerable to cults broadly usually, 2:28:56.879 --> 2:28:59.360 I know there's there's a certain subset of people, but like, 2:29:00.000 --> 2:29:01.880 as a general rule, people who get trapped in a 2:29:01.879 --> 2:29:04.879 cult get trapped in a specific cult because it is 2:29:04.920 --> 2:29:08.160 something that they are specifically vulnerable to. And so if 2:29:08.200 --> 2:29:11.160 you don't like it's more or less a matter of like, 2:29:11.200 --> 2:29:14.440 if you want to get someone out of a cult, um, 2:29:14.480 --> 2:29:16.879 are you close with that person? Like are they someone 2:29:16.920 --> 2:29:18.959 that you know? Are they someone that you have a 2:29:19.040 --> 2:29:22.960 deep relationship with because if so, like that relationship and 2:29:23.040 --> 2:29:26.000 the care that you have for them is primarily the 2:29:26.040 --> 2:29:29.400 thing that is most likely to eventually help them get out. 2:29:29.400 --> 2:29:33.680 Which doesn't mean it's a magic bullet, but like, there's 2:29:33.720 --> 2:29:37.080 no reliable way to get people out of colts yep, 2:29:37.440 --> 2:29:41.280 I'm a I do. I do step recovery stuff UM 2:29:41.360 --> 2:29:44.320 for different reasons. But the closest analogy that I can 2:29:44.360 --> 2:29:46.320 think of is dealing with someone who's abusing drug and 2:29:46.320 --> 2:29:48.920 alcohol in your life. You can't force anyone to stop, 2:29:48.959 --> 2:29:52.519 You can't make any moe. When people talk about cult deprogramming, 2:29:53.000 --> 2:29:56.800 what that entails kidnapping someone and then putting them through 2:29:56.840 --> 2:30:00.760 more abuse. So there is a magic bullet. Yeah, a 2:30:00.800 --> 2:30:03.520 lot of extremity problematic ship gets offered to people who 2:30:03.600 --> 2:30:06.440 understandably concerned for their friends and family members, and I 2:30:06.480 --> 2:30:09.440 just want to help. The best time to get someone 2:30:09.480 --> 2:30:11.400 out of a cult is before they join, you know, 2:30:11.840 --> 2:30:16.840 is to raise awareness about abuse in communities UM and 2:30:16.879 --> 2:30:20.760 share that information and take these things seriously. I truly 2:30:20.760 --> 2:30:22.600 believe so much of how this was able to happen 2:30:22.680 --> 2:30:26.920 is because people we're just laughing at them and didn't 2:30:26.959 --> 2:30:29.600 take it seriously. That this could get someone killed, that 2:30:29.680 --> 2:30:32.800 this was ruining lives, that's still happening. People are treating 2:30:32.840 --> 2:30:37.200 this as a joke, not yeah, And I think that's 2:30:37.240 --> 2:30:39.760 one of the things if you're like I don't know 2:30:39.800 --> 2:30:43.760 a parent or or somebody who otherwise works with their 2:30:43.879 --> 2:30:46.680 interfaces with there is raising young people, and you're trying 2:30:46.760 --> 2:30:49.600 to think about how you can make them less vulnerable 2:30:49.600 --> 2:30:52.199 to this. It is a mix of educating them about 2:30:52.240 --> 2:30:56.480 cults and not in a way that's like laughing or 2:30:56.520 --> 2:30:59.199 mocking or talking about how silly it is, but actually 2:30:59.800 --> 2:31:02.600 to discussing the very real reasons why people fall in 2:31:02.720 --> 2:31:06.240 for this stuff, because that's that's the important one of 2:31:06.240 --> 2:31:08.640 the most important things. It's the same as COVID. Really, 2:31:09.040 --> 2:31:11.520 one of the most important things for protecting yourself is 2:31:11.560 --> 2:31:16.200 not thinking that you're immune, which is a natural thing. 2:31:16.320 --> 2:31:19.400 Most people who have fallen into cults earlier in their 2:31:19.400 --> 2:31:21.440 life when they heard about colts, said well, that's stupid 2:31:21.440 --> 2:31:23.560 as hell. I would never get trapped in something like that, 2:31:23.840 --> 2:31:26.440 and then they did. And that's basically a hundred percent 2:31:26.520 --> 2:31:32.840 of COAT membership. You know, um, because yeah, if there's 2:31:33.120 --> 2:31:37.560 if I can recommend some resources for parents, Shannon fully 2:31:37.600 --> 2:31:43.120 Martinez who is on Twitter, is you know, was involved 2:31:43.280 --> 2:31:48.840 in extreme right skinhead stuff unless it is committed her 2:31:48.879 --> 2:31:52.880 life to helping people leave extremist movements. The same things 2:31:53.160 --> 2:31:57.480 you know that are going to make someone easily preyed 2:31:57.520 --> 2:32:00.760 upon by Colt and by an extremist group. Those are 2:32:00.760 --> 2:32:04.640 the same things. Um. And Shannon has some good resources 2:32:04.640 --> 2:32:07.840 out there. She has a Patreon as well. The resources 2:32:07.879 --> 2:32:09.640 are available for free. You don't need to join on 2:32:09.680 --> 2:32:15.080 her patreon. Awesome. Yeah, Shannon is awesome. UM. And other 2:32:15.120 --> 2:32:19.320 than that, you know, don't ye. Try to avoid falling 2:32:19.360 --> 2:32:23.519 for a cult, um except for you know this podcast. 2:32:24.800 --> 2:32:27.560 Keep listening to this podcast. Make it the center of 2:32:27.560 --> 2:32:29.640 your life. Have no friends of the nuts for in 2:32:29.680 --> 2:32:33.360 para social relationships with us? Uh huh, Well we're the 2:32:33.400 --> 2:32:35.160 only We're the only people you can trust. I think 2:32:35.200 --> 2:32:40.720 that's clear. Ye. Yeah. Would you like to plug anything 2:32:40.920 --> 2:32:46.800 before we carry off? Thomas? Yeah, I'm at Twitter at 2:32:46.959 --> 2:32:52.040 w underscore f underscore, Thomas. Don't be weird on Twitter. Um, 2:32:52.920 --> 2:32:56.720 have empathy for the people around you. Almost gonna plug 2:32:57.600 --> 2:33:00.200 HASHTA un housed people because they know what best can 2:33:00.240 --> 2:33:05.240 help them. Yeah, fucking provide people with options for housing, 2:33:05.320 --> 2:33:09.280 so that they're not. Yeah, having a could be the 2:33:09.320 --> 2:33:13.840 best thing they can do. But yeah, yep, I'm not 2:33:13.879 --> 2:33:17.480 a happy note. Thanks for having me. Yeah, checking onund 2:33:17.480 --> 2:33:38.359 your friends, debanding people when they're in difficult times. Uh, 2:33:38.520 --> 2:33:42.600 it could happen, It could happen here. That was my 2:33:43.040 --> 2:33:49.560 Robert Evans impression. Thank you very much. Hopefully that wasn't 2:33:49.680 --> 2:33:55.240 an assault in you. Um yeah, drums, but here we are, here, 2:33:55.320 --> 2:34:01.280 we are. I am Andrew, and this is it can 2:34:01.320 --> 2:34:05.039 happen in And this is the podcast where we talk 2:34:05.080 --> 2:34:10.440 about stuff that happened in places. And I'll be yes 2:34:10.560 --> 2:34:14.560 listening this episode. This is the Andruism segment where I 2:34:14.600 --> 2:34:19.520 talk about whatever comes to mind. So I'd like to 2:34:19.520 --> 2:34:25.800 open up this episode with a question, honestly, genuinely, how 2:34:25.840 --> 2:34:28.720 are you all doing? Well? There's a lot of stuff 2:34:28.800 --> 2:34:32.720 going on right now. Um, you know, not not the 2:34:32.760 --> 2:34:37.480 best time, um inside this country or really around the world. 2:34:38.120 --> 2:34:44.800 Um so yeah, not, I would say, not ideal, not idea. Yeah, 2:34:44.840 --> 2:34:48.640 I'm everything bad is happening and also being compounded that 2:34:48.680 --> 2:34:51.200 I have been. I have been once again awoken at 2:34:51.240 --> 2:34:55.160 it a genuinely egregiously early hour by someone pounding a 2:34:55.200 --> 2:34:58.440 hammer about eight inches from my head, which is fun 2:34:58.520 --> 2:35:05.840 and good and cool. So without context, without context all 2:35:06.400 --> 2:35:11.800 a wild thing to say. I am giving no context 2:35:11.800 --> 2:35:17.280 about that. This is literally true. So yeah, basically it's 2:35:17.280 --> 2:35:23.039 like that, but for everything. Yeah, I respect that. Not 2:35:23.280 --> 2:35:33.680 ideal is the perfect explanation. Yeah, yeah, not ideal, not ideal. Personally, 2:35:33.720 --> 2:35:35.920 I feel like i'm, you know, cost being pulled in 2:35:35.920 --> 2:35:39.000 a bunch of different directions and it's exhausted. And I mean, 2:35:39.800 --> 2:35:43.120 let's say upfront, I do have the privilege of having 2:35:43.160 --> 2:35:45.520 more control over my will day than a lot of 2:35:45.560 --> 2:35:47.800 other people do, and that's not something I take lightly. 2:35:47.879 --> 2:35:51.039 I'm very appreciative of that. UM shout out to my 2:35:51.040 --> 2:35:56.280 Patreon supporters. But you know, between all my online responsibilities 2:35:56.400 --> 2:36:00.200 and offline responsibilities and obligations and demands I might time, 2:36:00.240 --> 2:36:02.560 it really is not easy. And that's not even getting 2:36:02.560 --> 2:36:06.560 into like the social and politicals to the world right now. 2:36:06.840 --> 2:36:09.560 To Coach and Smith, you know, that's that's something I 2:36:09.560 --> 2:36:13.200 think we can all relate to on some level. Yeah, 2:36:13.440 --> 2:36:15.920 I mean, some weeks are much harder than others, but 2:36:16.959 --> 2:36:21.720 the through line has been stress and that is the 2:36:21.720 --> 2:36:25.280 subject of today's episode. That's so stressful that we're going 2:36:25.320 --> 2:36:32.440 to talk about stressful. Yeah, a discussion about stress. It 2:36:32.480 --> 2:36:36.440 really could happen here. Um. Stress is not something that's 2:36:36.440 --> 2:36:39.800 new to me, al really to most people. Me perasonally. 2:36:39.840 --> 2:36:45.199 My plasonality is very much lending itself to that um 2:36:45.400 --> 2:36:50.120 sort of outcome because I'm constantly like spinning a bunch 2:36:50.200 --> 2:36:52.960 of plates at the same time, and every time, like 2:36:53.080 --> 2:36:54.959 I dropped one, I put one down, I pick up 2:36:55.000 --> 2:36:59.600 the next one. And I'm not very good at relaxing usually. 2:37:00.840 --> 2:37:03.720 All right, I've basically been going non stop for a 2:37:03.720 --> 2:37:13.240 long long time, and I'm not alone because of adults 2:37:13.240 --> 2:37:16.320 suffer from chronic stress and to night to a sense 2:37:16.320 --> 2:37:20.840 of doctors visits are stress related and it's trash. You know, 2:37:20.840 --> 2:37:23.160 he feels in your skin and your muscle, in your bones. 2:37:24.240 --> 2:37:26.880 I remember this one. Someone was working at that same 2:37:26.879 --> 2:37:29.720 winery I was talking about in a recent episode. I 2:37:29.760 --> 2:37:33.680 was in UM and I'm sure my experience, it really 2:37:33.680 --> 2:37:37.200 felt like my blood was running into water, like I 2:37:37.280 --> 2:37:39.879 was barely eaten. It wasn't getting enough water, I wasn't 2:37:40.760 --> 2:37:44.240 perfectly hydrated and was just going We call that, we 2:37:44.320 --> 2:37:50.280 call that a reverse Jesus. When you're when you're I mean, 2:37:50.879 --> 2:37:53.879 I think when Jesus was stabbed. He did like bleed 2:37:53.920 --> 2:38:00.480 water for some reason. Yeah, treat ring. You know, they 2:38:00.520 --> 2:38:04.520 tell the story and I think all bodies tell the 2:38:04.600 --> 2:38:07.000 story as well, and for a lot of us that 2:38:07.160 --> 2:38:11.120 story is stress rather because of events or thoughts or 2:38:11.200 --> 2:38:16.560 circumstances that needs frustration. Angle new business, do you mistress? 2:38:18.879 --> 2:38:20.360 What would you guys say, is some of your like 2:38:20.920 --> 2:38:30.680 mean stress triggers? I was going to say family, most 2:38:30.680 --> 2:38:34.040 of it's probably work related, based on the type of 2:38:35.360 --> 2:38:42.240 things I surround myself with for over twelve hours a day. Yeah, 2:38:42.280 --> 2:38:44.640 I think for me it's it's work, and then it's 2:38:44.640 --> 2:38:48.800 a lot of just sort of like personal life stuff. 2:38:48.840 --> 2:38:51.760 I have to do stuff which is just like like 2:38:51.800 --> 2:38:54.760 I'm trying to move right now, and that's like incredibly stressful. 2:38:55.080 --> 2:39:00.959 And yeah, a medical stuff that's been that's been a 2:39:01.920 --> 2:39:06.080 holy hell. Yeah, we are excited that Chris is finally 2:39:06.120 --> 2:39:09.440 moving out of the hammer factory into the into the 2:39:09.640 --> 2:39:12.360 into the electric drill factory. So the audio will still 2:39:12.360 --> 2:39:14.880 be a bit weird. I mean, look, if if if 2:39:15.280 --> 2:39:18.120 it's if it's anything like college, it'll be twelve hours 2:39:18.120 --> 2:39:20.000 a day of a guy with a jackhammer directly below 2:39:20.040 --> 2:39:23.080 my window. Which you'll all get to hear an incredibly 2:39:23.160 --> 2:39:27.480 large amount of It's gonna be great. That's fantastic. That's 2:39:27.480 --> 2:39:30.400 a perfect encapsulation of exactly the topic we'll talk kind 2:39:30.400 --> 2:39:34.880 of about. It's like a jackhammer on your brain constantly. 2:39:36.480 --> 2:39:38.400 I mean, that's on the only form of stress. I mean, 2:39:38.400 --> 2:39:42.240 there's a stress that comes from like loss stress, it 2:39:42.280 --> 2:39:45.360 comes from like social drift stress. It comes from like 2:39:45.360 --> 2:39:51.360 this consumers rotteries, um, you know, mental illness, just general 2:39:51.440 --> 2:39:57.520 uncutainty and change and grief and guilt and trauma, um, 2:39:57.680 --> 2:40:01.400 you know, dicty to ship that a lot of people 2:40:01.440 --> 2:40:07.480 are subject to, and of course climate change go to 2:40:07.560 --> 2:40:18.920 a climate change. I think more and more people need 2:40:18.959 --> 2:40:23.240 to realize there was a stress is a symptom of 2:40:23.320 --> 2:40:30.360 like systemic violence. You know, when we're dealing with these 2:40:30.400 --> 2:40:33.840 headaches and sleep problems and muscle opinions and digestive problems 2:40:33.840 --> 2:40:37.720 and sex problems and blood pressures, use and moodliness and 2:40:37.760 --> 2:40:42.280 restlessness and demotivation and irritability and substance abuse and all 2:40:42.280 --> 2:40:48.280 these other responses and consequences. It's just the outcome of 2:40:48.360 --> 2:40:53.640 daily systemic violence, of the way that this system deprives 2:40:53.840 --> 2:40:59.039 us of support and care that how it atomizes us, 2:40:59.040 --> 2:41:03.680 how it contro rules us and really squeezes us forward worth. 2:41:05.200 --> 2:41:09.160 I mean it's not to say that like there's no 2:41:09.280 --> 2:41:13.480 stress outside of capitalism, or that stress is a capitalist invention. 2:41:13.560 --> 2:41:18.800 Absolutely not. I mean stress in small doses to be 2:41:18.840 --> 2:41:23.480 a good indicator in certains vibal situations that need to 2:41:23.560 --> 2:41:29.040 change the situation um motivation to act, you know. But 2:41:30.280 --> 2:41:36.080 and the capitalism is really pathological, and yet you gotta 2:41:36.120 --> 2:41:39.160 keep playing normal. You have to keep on pretending that 2:41:39.240 --> 2:41:42.640 everything is okay. I mean, we all know how deeply 2:41:42.720 --> 2:41:46.959 unhealthy this society is, how deeply an equalist society is. 2:41:47.200 --> 2:41:51.400 Many people didn't stress related illnesses. Are people don't like 2:41:51.480 --> 2:41:56.680 hyper vigilance? Are we a constantly scanning this urban jungle 2:41:57.760 --> 2:42:03.720 for threats? But of of insecurity and decimation of public 2:42:03.800 --> 2:42:08.880 life and of entire economies in sectors as like well 2:42:08.920 --> 2:42:12.000 held in captivity. I will say one thing, and that 2:42:12.120 --> 2:42:14.640 is that while capitalism produces a lot of stress, it 2:42:14.800 --> 2:42:20.520 was so alleviates stress by producing an economy organized around 2:42:20.560 --> 2:42:25.600 the production and circulation of addictive substances and practices of 2:42:25.800 --> 2:42:28.440 all these different vices that you know, people pick up. 2:42:29.400 --> 2:42:32.280 I mean if you look at the roots of capitalism 2:42:32.360 --> 2:42:36.240 and how capitalism really funded itself initially through the plantation 2:42:36.280 --> 2:42:41.160 economies and the Caribbean and the rest of America's um 2:42:41.200 --> 2:42:46.680 you know, growing like sugar and tobacco and you know, 2:42:46.720 --> 2:42:53.760 producing all these spirits and chocolate and coffee. The thing 2:42:53.879 --> 2:42:58.320 that that that that helped bring capitalism to fruition and 2:42:58.360 --> 2:43:02.320 helped fund industrial capitalist soon is the thing that people 2:43:02.320 --> 2:43:05.480 are using to self medicate in response the effects of 2:43:06.000 --> 2:43:10.720 the now global capitalist dominance. And people love off their 2:43:10.760 --> 2:43:13.960 chocolate and their coffee. Personally, I'm not a big fan 2:43:14.280 --> 2:43:20.480 of coffee. I think it's tastes disgusting, but you know, yeah, 2:43:20.520 --> 2:43:23.720 I tried it once and it was like it tastes 2:43:23.760 --> 2:43:27.800 like the sensation of burning. You know, I just wasn't 2:43:27.840 --> 2:43:31.520 having it. I like the smell for some reason, like 2:43:31.560 --> 2:43:34.800 the smell of coffee beans, but the actual taste is 2:43:34.920 --> 2:43:39.000 like nah. And surprisingly, I actually used to not like 2:43:39.120 --> 2:43:41.720 chocolate as a child. It is only when I matured 2:43:41.760 --> 2:43:45.680 my taste buds that I actually came around to it. Ironically, 2:43:48.360 --> 2:43:49.760 and of course we don't think of these things as 2:43:50.000 --> 2:43:56.080 you know, spaces or medications, but they're like small pleasures 2:43:56.120 --> 2:43:59.720 that help us get through our day. Practically everybody is 2:44:00.320 --> 2:44:03.360 some level of alcoholic these days. And of course there's 2:44:03.400 --> 2:44:08.879 social media, which is like algorithmically teelered and tuned to 2:44:09.040 --> 2:44:12.840 keep us on it, to keep us like it. Basically 2:44:12.879 --> 2:44:16.040 like like a puppet master controuls the highs and lows 2:44:16.080 --> 2:44:19.760 of all emotions on a daily basis. It basically functions 2:44:19.760 --> 2:44:22.280 as an addictive drug. It just the drug is just 2:44:22.959 --> 2:44:25.400 is caused by chemical reactions in your own brain, but 2:44:25.440 --> 2:44:28.920 it's manipulating your brain into causing it to happen um. 2:44:28.959 --> 2:44:33.320 But it's it's a very similar addictive process that has like, 2:44:33.720 --> 2:44:36.520 you know, a reward system. You know that. That's why, 2:44:36.640 --> 2:44:39.880 like around a decade ago, a lot of social media 2:44:39.920 --> 2:44:44.320 companies changed their UM loading style to be like you 2:44:44.400 --> 2:44:47.119 like scroll it down and it flicks back up, which 2:44:47.200 --> 2:44:51.520 was specifically it was specifically copying a slot machine. Because 2:44:51.560 --> 2:44:54.360 it is it's it's like an addictive pattern that's ingrained 2:44:54.400 --> 2:44:58.840 into what we find pleasurable. So it's it's all like 2:44:58.959 --> 2:45:00.960 none of this is this isn't new information to a 2:45:01.000 --> 2:45:04.160 lot of people, but like it's all obviously very intentional 2:45:04.240 --> 2:45:07.840 to it's designed to be extremely addictive. Yeah, and this 2:45:07.840 --> 2:45:09.640 this is just like this is just like what like 2:45:09.760 --> 2:45:12.200 most of gaming is now too where it's like, I mean, okay, 2:45:12.240 --> 2:45:15.000 like you're playing a video game, right yeah, but like 2:45:15.080 --> 2:45:17.720 yeah and now and now literally like the the the 2:45:17.800 --> 2:45:21.440 revenue model of the gaming industry is selling gambling to children. 2:45:22.120 --> 2:45:24.199 You know that. That is My one who complained about 2:45:24.240 --> 2:45:27.879 casinos is that eight year olds couldn't spend thousands of 2:45:27.879 --> 2:45:32.600 dollars of their parents money on skins. Now, thanks thanks 2:45:32.640 --> 2:45:35.960 to the wonders of gaming, eight year olds too can 2:45:36.000 --> 2:45:38.480 basically just live in a casino in their own bedroom 2:45:38.600 --> 2:45:45.560 all the time. Modern society. Okay, there's there's there's conflicting 2:45:45.560 --> 2:45:49.160 accounts about this, but there's there's a new like free 2:45:49.200 --> 2:45:53.800 to play Dio Diablo game. And yes, that the the 2:45:53.920 --> 2:45:56.800 amount of money it would take to get like a 2:45:56.840 --> 2:46:00.320 max level character in this game I have seen. Okay, 2:46:00.320 --> 2:46:03.800 I I've I've the latest calculation I've seen is saying 2:46:03.800 --> 2:46:07.440 it would take over five thousand dollars. The lowest range 2:46:07.480 --> 2:46:09.320 calculation of how much it would cost I've seen was 2:46:09.360 --> 2:46:12.720 about fifty tho it's probably at least a hundred thousand 2:46:12.720 --> 2:46:16.600 dollars to literally get the guy's level characters in games. 2:46:16.640 --> 2:46:20.680 It is like like this is this problem is exactly 2:46:20.680 --> 2:46:25.520 where why that's problem is exactly why. Um, the only 2:46:25.520 --> 2:46:27.440 mobile games I play us to do a Google on 2:46:27.520 --> 2:46:34.879 mine sweep and even those have ads. Yeah, I did 2:46:34.920 --> 2:46:38.400 have a brief for it until among us, but that, um, 2:46:38.440 --> 2:46:44.240 that period has has ended. Un Plus, this is also 2:46:44.280 --> 2:46:47.680 why I tend to you know, sail the high seas, 2:46:47.760 --> 2:46:53.320 if you know what I'm saying. The funny thing is 2:46:53.360 --> 2:46:56.800 that we don't have to do this, and I mean 2:46:57.800 --> 2:47:01.240 it's kind of all the us. It's kind of like 2:47:03.440 --> 2:47:05.840 it's a phrase I'm looking forward, like it doesn't need 2:47:05.879 --> 2:47:07.400 to be said, but it also kind of needs to 2:47:07.400 --> 2:47:12.080 be said. That we built We built this society, and 2:47:13.280 --> 2:47:15.240 as people within it, we do have the power to 2:47:15.320 --> 2:47:18.360 change it. We don't have to work as much as 2:47:18.360 --> 2:47:21.480 we do. We don't have to you know, structure and 2:47:21.520 --> 2:47:26.960 attend school the way that we do. I mean, even 2:47:27.200 --> 2:47:29.840 under capitalism, there there are people who are starting to 2:47:29.920 --> 2:47:33.000 shift from that hour a week day which we had 2:47:33.040 --> 2:47:36.200 to fight for a lot of people died for, um 2:47:36.440 --> 2:47:39.000 till you know, three to six hours a day, which 2:47:40.440 --> 2:47:44.760 or four hours pretty it depends. UM. I think that's 2:47:44.760 --> 2:47:48.800 the one on experiment was like six hour days, four 2:47:48.879 --> 2:47:55.440 days a week or something like that. But despite you know, 2:47:55.640 --> 2:47:58.160 studies coming out and saying that humans grooling is sup 2:47:58.200 --> 2:48:04.520 productive in a certain period of time uninterrupted, it doesn't matter, 2:48:04.840 --> 2:48:07.800 you know, despite the fact that you know, productivity decreases, 2:48:09.040 --> 2:48:11.959 it's not like productivity rises or the amount to hours 2:48:12.000 --> 2:48:16.160 you work. It doesn't matter. I mean, I remember when 2:48:16.160 --> 2:48:18.959 I was working in a um an insurance company. I 2:48:19.080 --> 2:48:22.960 was a people pusher, just like scanning documents and uploading 2:48:23.040 --> 2:48:25.879 documents and then scanning some more documents and then uploading 2:48:25.879 --> 2:48:28.120 those documents, and then every once in a while I 2:48:28.120 --> 2:48:32.840 got to print documents. Exciting um but I was dealing 2:48:32.920 --> 2:48:41.560 with like a backlog of documents, and I was typically 2:48:41.600 --> 2:48:44.920 able to get like a decent chunk of the work 2:48:44.959 --> 2:48:48.280 done within like the first two to three hours, as 2:48:48.320 --> 2:48:55.560 in like having it fully sorted, scanned, uploaded, completed, you know. 2:48:55.640 --> 2:49:01.320 But unfortunately I had to be there for eight hours, 2:49:02.440 --> 2:49:05.480 and so I had to drag out my day, you know, 2:49:05.520 --> 2:49:09.120 typically by listening to like the Communist Manifesto and audiobook 2:49:10.000 --> 2:49:13.040 yea or The Conquest of Bread and audiobook. I had 2:49:13.040 --> 2:49:16.000 to find things to do, is like make myself look busy, 2:49:16.240 --> 2:49:19.760 um what to like tovvy up my tasks and extend 2:49:19.760 --> 2:49:25.120 them and artificially stretch them out. Because instead of doing 2:49:25.160 --> 2:49:29.240 this BS job because I'm not doing this BS job 2:49:29.280 --> 2:49:31.640 at all, or instead of doing this b S job 2:49:32.400 --> 2:49:37.640 based on tasks completed rather than time spent, I had 2:49:37.680 --> 2:49:40.199 to rely on the time spent in the contractual hours. 2:49:40.240 --> 2:49:42.920 And of course the pay was terrible, but I mean 2:49:42.920 --> 2:49:46.840 that was expected at this point. But the whole point 2:49:46.959 --> 2:49:50.280 is really to like squeeze all our time and energy, 2:49:51.040 --> 2:49:54.400 so that's we're stressed out so that we don't have 2:49:54.440 --> 2:49:57.920 any leisure, so that you know, we look for convenience, 2:49:58.000 --> 2:50:02.400 and convenience is profitable. I mean, who really has the 2:50:02.600 --> 2:50:05.240 energy to fight for their rights when they don't even 2:50:05.240 --> 2:50:07.880 have the energy to cook a meal when they get home, 2:50:08.879 --> 2:50:14.080 you know. And it wasn't always like this. The social 2:50:14.120 --> 2:50:20.920 bond was broken by capitalism and replaced with the bond 2:50:21.000 --> 2:50:26.520 to money, and until we like sever that bond, nothing's 2:50:26.520 --> 2:50:30.720 going to change. The question is how can we address stress? Right, 2:50:30.760 --> 2:50:34.440 and so capitalism has an answer, um and then there's 2:50:34.480 --> 2:50:40.959 like an actual proper, real systemic answer, And personally, I 2:50:41.000 --> 2:50:47.720 deal with stressed by just not thinking about it. Um, 2:50:47.720 --> 2:50:51.760 But I mean, what what do you guys do be 2:50:51.959 --> 2:50:59.759 really sad? I was talking about like like mitigation strategies 2:50:59.840 --> 2:51:03.279 you know that I don't know, Like when it's nice already, 2:51:03.320 --> 2:51:07.520 like I go take walks, Um, looks are nice. Yeah, 2:51:07.640 --> 2:51:10.920 I have a have a shark that I got from 2:51:10.959 --> 2:51:14.039 somewhere that's like it's like the like the squashy phone material, 2:51:14.080 --> 2:51:16.960 but just a shark it rules. Do you have an 2:51:17.000 --> 2:51:20.040 idea shark? No? No, no, no, no, it's okay, it's 2:51:20.200 --> 2:51:25.600 all right. It's like a stress ball. But about to 2:51:25.640 --> 2:51:28.640 just like yeah, that's very funny. I don't have a 2:51:28.800 --> 2:51:33.520 whatever that I don't know what. I don't know. I 2:51:33.520 --> 2:51:36.600 don't know how to say it either. I don't know. 2:51:36.760 --> 2:51:40.000 I've been trying to get back into doing more park 2:51:40.080 --> 2:51:47.320 or training when I'm stressed, but honestly, it's a lot 2:51:47.320 --> 2:51:49.160 of the time I just do stuff that I know 2:51:49.400 --> 2:51:52.880 I am capable of, which oftentimes is the same thing 2:51:53.040 --> 2:51:54.400 that kind of caused me to get stressed in the 2:51:54.440 --> 2:52:00.760 first place. Looking at nonsense propaganda, writing about it, writing 2:52:00.800 --> 2:52:06.080 about like different like philosophies around Doumerism, and like because 2:52:06.080 --> 2:52:09.240 those are things I just my my brain can just 2:52:09.400 --> 2:52:12.279 do with little efforts. So it's almost it's almost peaceful 2:52:12.320 --> 2:52:16.280 in a way. Yeah, it's it's it's bizarre. Mean in 2:52:16.320 --> 2:52:18.360 some ways you would think that these things are what's 2:52:18.360 --> 2:52:20.760 causing me to have problems, but also in a lot 2:52:20.760 --> 2:52:23.960 of ways that kind of calms me down. Um, to 2:52:24.080 --> 2:52:26.160 look at a whole bunch of this type of thing, 2:52:26.280 --> 2:52:28.320 or to write about it, or to like try to 2:52:28.400 --> 2:52:31.959 like you know, just do like formatting inside like a 2:52:32.000 --> 2:52:35.080 Google doc about it. Um, I don't know. It's like 2:52:35.120 --> 2:52:37.720 it's like sorting out this stuff. It's almost like this 2:52:37.879 --> 2:52:42.920 this idea, This is like um thing called knowling. It's 2:52:42.920 --> 2:52:44.280 when you get a whole bunch of stuff out on 2:52:44.320 --> 2:52:47.560 the floor and you sort it into piles. It's done 2:52:47.600 --> 2:52:49.360 with like Lego a lot if you dump a giant 2:52:49.440 --> 2:52:52.200 like box of Lego for all these different legal pieces, Um, 2:52:52.280 --> 2:52:54.000 if you're gonna annul them, you're gonna take all the 2:52:54.040 --> 2:52:56.120 pieces that are like the same color or size and 2:52:56.160 --> 2:52:59.040 sort them into their little places. It's it's it's so 2:52:59.080 --> 2:53:01.160 it's I kind of do that but with like ideas, 2:53:01.879 --> 2:53:04.720 um and like and like with writing projects, I dump 2:53:04.760 --> 2:53:07.280 out all the things I'm currently thinking about into like 2:53:07.320 --> 2:53:09.280 a spreadsheet or a Google doc and sort them into 2:53:09.280 --> 2:53:11.760 related topics to be like, Okay, here's how this thing 2:53:11.879 --> 2:53:14.520 leads into this thing, and I just it's like that 2:53:14.560 --> 2:53:18.000 kind of like organizational thing. Um. So like like how 2:53:18.160 --> 2:53:20.240 organizing is kind of like a therapeutic thing. So it's 2:53:20.240 --> 2:53:22.920 like I can do that with all of the random 2:53:22.959 --> 2:53:25.840 stuff floating around in my brain. Sometimes I'll try to 2:53:25.920 --> 2:53:27.560 like just sort of out. Even if it doesn't get 2:53:27.560 --> 2:53:30.080 turned into like a work project, it's still like it's 2:53:30.240 --> 2:53:36.560 like an external way to sort out my thoughts, right, Sufie, 2:53:38.879 --> 2:53:43.880 I have a dog, very good dog of a dog. 2:53:44.160 --> 2:53:48.960 We listen to music, we go outside. We'll like to 2:53:49.000 --> 2:53:53.160 go to the park and listen to music outside. You know, 2:53:54.640 --> 2:53:57.480 that's the basically work a lot. But work is also 2:53:57.600 --> 2:54:01.600 like if I don't work, I'm more stressed exactly exactly. Yeah, 2:54:01.640 --> 2:54:07.160 I definitely relate. I relate to that, which is like 2:54:07.200 --> 2:54:09.800 a lapdog for I know, right, Like it's not something 2:54:09.879 --> 2:54:14.039 that like proud of, but also like, you know, I'm 2:54:14.120 --> 2:54:17.240 lucky enough. Nothing that's indicative of the problem, right, Like, 2:54:17.800 --> 2:54:21.199 it's not like people don't necessarily like to work, don't 2:54:21.200 --> 2:54:26.360 necessarily like to leave, Yes, she was like not having 2:54:27.200 --> 2:54:30.160 what's one to me? You know, because I mean if 2:54:31.320 --> 2:54:33.080 most of the things I do for work now are 2:54:33.120 --> 2:54:35.760 things that I've been doing for years unpaid because I 2:54:35.840 --> 2:54:38.440 was just interested in them. So you know, if we're 2:54:38.480 --> 2:54:41.520 talking about theorizing about like a post work world, yeah, 2:54:41.560 --> 2:54:43.440 people are still going to do all kinds of ship. 2:54:44.000 --> 2:54:47.879 Obviously there's questions around, you know, tasks which are not 2:54:48.040 --> 2:54:50.280 like not the most fun to do. As we've had 2:54:50.280 --> 2:54:53.560 discussions on antiwork stuff before, but for a lot of stuff, 2:54:53.600 --> 2:54:56.280 everyone has little interests in little skills that they find 2:54:56.360 --> 2:54:59.280 kind of slightly therapeutic. And also like you know, it's 2:54:59.360 --> 2:55:00.920 in terms of us to know what wants to do. 2:55:01.000 --> 2:55:03.200 Like I fixed my own plumbing in my bathtub a 2:55:03.240 --> 2:55:05.480 few weeks ago because my landlord it's not going to 2:55:05.600 --> 2:55:08.240 do that. So like, you know, people when you when 2:55:08.280 --> 2:55:10.000 when you have to do something, you kind of become 2:55:10.040 --> 2:55:12.920 capable of it. That's fair. I think one of the 2:55:12.920 --> 2:55:16.119 most popular responses, like the stress is COMPLISSM and pooses 2:55:17.160 --> 2:55:20.000 is like this concept of self care, you know, this 2:55:20.000 --> 2:55:22.119 way of escape from from the grind of it all 2:55:22.320 --> 2:55:26.480 and sure dealing with you know, with issues by like 2:55:27.040 --> 2:55:31.000 getting to bed early and eating well and physical exercise, 2:55:31.080 --> 2:55:34.080 which I've been doing a lots of, um, you know, 2:55:34.440 --> 2:55:39.480 and and all that we have to change your little 2:55:39.560 --> 2:55:43.000 drug into like into like the chat version. Well I 2:55:43.000 --> 2:55:52.840 actually did that recently. That's great. Yeah, it's definitely you 2:55:52.879 --> 2:55:56.480 know this thing also things like like Jornane and meditation 2:55:56.680 --> 2:56:01.360 and yoka and all that. As I mean, you never 2:56:01.520 --> 2:56:04.000 never really got into meditation because I tried it a 2:56:04.080 --> 2:56:06.840 couple of times and every time I do, I kind 2:56:06.840 --> 2:56:11.959 of fall asleep. I definitely do some meditation stuff, um, 2:56:12.040 --> 2:56:13.959 but that's what's kind of slightly part of my like 2:56:14.720 --> 2:56:17.360 metaphysics interest um. And I mean also mean like in 2:56:17.400 --> 2:56:19.920 terms of like self care practices in that vein that 2:56:19.959 --> 2:56:23.320 can help you kind of relax. There's obviously stuff like 2:56:23.360 --> 2:56:26.120 you know, mushrooms are m D M A, which if 2:56:26.200 --> 2:56:29.720 done and you know proper, you know, it's space spaced out, 2:56:29.800 --> 2:56:31.560 not not doing them all the time, but doing them 2:56:31.800 --> 2:56:37.120 at certain intervals, um, can definitely be be therapeutic in 2:56:37.160 --> 2:56:42.080 their own way. Or Drey Lord, one of the foremost 2:56:43.120 --> 2:56:47.360 black feminist scholars of our time, one set and I 2:56:47.440 --> 2:56:50.320 returned to it is cool to lot um. Karen for 2:56:50.360 --> 2:56:53.160 myself is not an act of self intelligence. It is 2:56:53.200 --> 2:56:57.959 self preservation, and that is an active political warfare. Self 2:56:58.000 --> 2:57:01.040 care used to me in prison, on yourself in a 2:57:01.120 --> 2:57:06.440 world hostility, very identity community. We have life event not 2:57:06.720 --> 2:57:09.560 we gin yourself to an early grieve, you know, practicing 2:57:09.640 --> 2:57:14.840 say and new and being mindful of your sensitivities and triggers. 2:57:15.959 --> 2:57:20.879 And then you know, as white corporate feminism does, white 2:57:20.879 --> 2:57:25.520 corporate feminism appropriated it and turned it into a industry 2:57:25.800 --> 2:57:29.920 now worth a start or and eleven billion dollars. I 2:57:29.959 --> 2:57:32.160 mean now self care. When people think of self care, 2:57:32.160 --> 2:57:36.000 it's all about intelligent cosmetics and serious bodies and overpriced 2:57:36.040 --> 2:57:40.560 candles and quintin expensive qualities and subscriptions to social media 2:57:40.959 --> 2:57:44.160 apps that are about like and it's it's turned into 2:57:44.240 --> 2:57:47.879 this own like grifting industry almost like that that the 2:57:47.959 --> 2:57:51.879 self care industry. It's like self care influencers and self 2:57:51.879 --> 2:57:56.240 care content creators and like it's just like it. It 2:57:56.320 --> 2:57:59.840 just gets it gets the same icky de realization for 2:58:00.040 --> 2:58:03.720 think that everything else under capitalism is slowly getting Yeah, 2:58:03.840 --> 2:58:07.160 I mean they even have like their own self care funds, 2:58:07.240 --> 2:58:08.480 like if you not. Just a lot of self care 2:58:08.520 --> 2:58:11.760 content has a very specific visual style yeah, you know, 2:58:12.959 --> 2:58:15.480 I mean hashtog self can Instagram just like a bottomless 2:58:15.520 --> 2:58:19.880 screwl of graphics and products. It just makes me feel 2:58:19.959 --> 2:58:22.400 kind of unsettled. It kind of has this like uncanny 2:58:22.440 --> 2:58:25.920 aspect to it, Yeah, because it's almost as of self 2:58:25.920 --> 2:58:28.120 care is unaccessible to the wise was creepy to help 2:58:28.120 --> 2:58:32.560 the moves. Yeah, yeah, I mean there's there's that. I mean, 2:58:32.640 --> 2:58:35.560 the fundamental part of the uncanny is that is that 2:58:35.720 --> 2:58:38.680 disconnect where they the gap between the phenomenon and the 2:58:38.760 --> 2:58:41.240 thing is really is really big and you can't really 2:58:41.280 --> 2:58:44.080 understand why it's uncanny, but if you think about it, 2:58:44.080 --> 2:58:46.720 it's because that gap between the thing what's supposed to 2:58:46.720 --> 2:58:49.680 be doing is so large. So yeah, this thing that's 2:58:49.680 --> 2:58:53.199 supposed to help all these people is now of white 2:58:53.280 --> 2:59:01.640 millennial like like up like middle upper class like aesthetic. Now, um, 2:59:01.720 --> 2:59:07.560 and that sucks exactly. I mean these days, the people 2:59:08.000 --> 2:59:11.840 like it's mostly a salve for like white collar workers 2:59:12.040 --> 2:59:15.080 whose jobs are also sucked in with their time managing creativity. 2:59:15.080 --> 2:59:17.600 But the people who are actually in the blue collar workers, 2:59:18.040 --> 2:59:20.520 they often have the time or money to be able 2:59:20.520 --> 2:59:24.600 to invest in themselves, not way self care and work 2:59:24.680 --> 2:59:27.320 collars and basically two sides of the same coin. Right, 2:59:27.760 --> 2:59:30.480 it's preserve yourself so you can produce small It's a 2:59:30.520 --> 2:59:34.400 solution to capitalism. Within capitalism, the solution doesn't actually alleviate 2:59:34.440 --> 2:59:43.280 the conditions and stress, but lines pockets and fuels the 2:59:43.320 --> 2:59:46.840 economic system that creates it in the first place. I mean, 2:59:46.879 --> 2:59:49.680 if you're selling self care helps that you've got a 2:59:49.680 --> 2:59:53.680 constant supply of customers living in perpetual anxiety and wellness 2:59:55.600 --> 2:59:58.000 rather than means of resistance to the system. It's been 2:59:58.200 --> 3:00:03.360 recognized by the system. It's become this performative thing we 3:00:03.400 --> 3:00:05.600 put on, this image of put togethernes where you carefully 3:00:05.640 --> 3:00:08.920 curate your feed and your Instagram stories in your highlights 3:00:08.959 --> 3:00:15.120 and as an individualized solutions systemic issues is it's like 3:00:15.280 --> 3:00:18.280 the system telling you to calm down. Why I continue 3:00:18.320 --> 3:00:23.039 to denegrate and and exploit you. None of these things 3:00:23.040 --> 3:00:27.160 address stress systematically. I'm not saying that it's necessarily bad 3:00:27.360 --> 3:00:32.360 to address stress individually, because everybody has their own personal conditions, 3:00:32.680 --> 3:00:39.240 but without dealing with the broader material conditions, Without addressing 3:00:39.240 --> 3:00:42.959 people's lack of free time, lack of access to social connection, 3:00:43.080 --> 3:00:47.200 lack of access to housing and healthy food, and fudable 3:00:47.200 --> 3:00:54.360 medical care. You know it, it misses the point. And 3:00:54.360 --> 3:00:58.800 I haven't I haven't read much um in the field 3:00:58.840 --> 3:01:00.840 of I believe there's some NICUs was when a lot 3:01:00.840 --> 3:01:03.760 of time writing and talking about it, but I haven't 3:01:03.800 --> 3:01:07.959 read much in the field of like psychotherapy and that 3:01:08.080 --> 3:01:13.320 sort of thing. But it's it's kind of a realization 3:01:13.360 --> 3:01:17.560 of me that therapy is basically focus in on fixing 3:01:17.680 --> 3:01:21.800 an individuals would just to a sick society, rather than 3:01:22.160 --> 3:01:26.959 healing the society itself, fixing the society itself. I mean, 3:01:27.120 --> 3:01:30.879 so much about their therapy is about, you know, addressing 3:01:32.160 --> 3:01:37.560 things that are impairing your functionality to complete your work. Yeah, 3:01:37.600 --> 3:01:41.000 Like it's it's all the base of mental healthness is 3:01:41.000 --> 3:01:43.680 is it inhibiting you from doing your job? And that's 3:01:43.680 --> 3:01:46.080 when it becomes a problem, and the only way to 3:01:46.120 --> 3:01:49.680 solve it is through it. Like, like what what deems 3:01:49.720 --> 3:01:52.360 a success is if you're able to complete your job 3:01:52.440 --> 3:01:55.280 at a high level of functioning. Again, it's not actually 3:01:55.320 --> 3:01:58.600 about your mental state, it's about how much you can 3:01:58.959 --> 3:02:02.200 produce center the calp C list framework. Yeah, And I 3:02:02.200 --> 3:02:04.879 mean not to say that that medication doesn't have a 3:02:04.920 --> 3:02:09.240 tremendous benefits in people's lives and you know, helping them 3:02:09.320 --> 3:02:12.480 get back on track and take control of their circumstances. 3:02:13.720 --> 3:02:18.080 But you know, when you have a society that has 3:02:18.200 --> 3:02:22.920 distress and misery and loneliness woven into it, um into 3:02:22.959 --> 3:02:27.160 its core, trying to adjust people and adapt people to 3:02:27.280 --> 3:02:36.680 that is just responding to sickness and more sickness. And 3:02:36.720 --> 3:02:39.360 you know me, I like to try and keep things 3:02:39.360 --> 3:02:46.400 on the practical, um helpful, positive side. You know, it 3:02:46.680 --> 3:02:52.320 could happen here and genuinely with a smiling face, you know, 3:02:52.920 --> 3:02:56.560 like it could happen here. Um. And so I just 3:02:56.600 --> 3:03:01.280 wanted to put forward some recommendations. I guess yeah, um. 3:03:01.280 --> 3:03:04.119 I mean, obviously we can't afford to wait until capitalism 3:03:04.200 --> 3:03:07.800 has been abolished to be happy. That's just ridiculous. I mean, 3:03:07.879 --> 3:03:11.200 that's long term cure for a lot of the moralities 3:03:11.280 --> 3:03:18.400 and and it's used people are facing um. But in 3:03:18.400 --> 3:03:21.440 the meantime, when assigned the roots of our stress in 3:03:21.480 --> 3:03:24.879 these systems can make the personal political and drive us 3:03:24.879 --> 3:03:27.360 to act and connect with people who can support us. 3:03:28.560 --> 3:03:30.440 I think that in organize in spaces, they need to 3:03:30.440 --> 3:03:34.480 be special attention but towards creating support groups that have 3:03:34.959 --> 3:03:38.320 allowed for solidarity to be built, you know, allowing people 3:03:38.400 --> 3:03:41.440 to share their feelings and work through the challenges together. 3:03:41.959 --> 3:03:44.160 Self care kind of frames things in a way that 3:03:44.560 --> 3:03:47.039 makes it seem as though healing has done on an 3:03:47.040 --> 3:03:52.480 individual level. When healing is communal, like you don't have 3:03:52.520 --> 3:03:56.440 to go through all this alone healing. It's an act 3:03:56.480 --> 3:03:59.760 of communion and the world must be force to change 3:04:00.480 --> 3:04:07.320 to reflect that, recognize that we have each other, and 3:04:08.879 --> 3:04:11.800 recognize that south care and community care and extricably linked. 3:04:12.879 --> 3:04:19.959 And once those facts at the forefront, once we put 3:04:20.080 --> 3:04:23.240 community care at the forefront, outside of the close of 3:04:23.280 --> 3:04:29.800 the market, accessible to all um, I think we can 3:04:29.840 --> 3:04:32.960 find hoope, you know. And it really it can start 3:04:32.959 --> 3:04:36.440 with something as simple as just reaching out, you know, um, 3:04:36.680 --> 3:04:39.560 grabbing groceries or twin dishes or watching kids. All the 3:04:39.640 --> 3:04:44.840 care work that is stept to the side when we 3:04:44.879 --> 3:04:48.920 think about organizing and what it means to organize, but 3:04:49.240 --> 3:04:51.640 with an your home, money, neighborhood, or at work or 3:04:51.680 --> 3:04:58.840 at school, because I think in especially neighborhood settings, developing 3:04:58.840 --> 3:05:01.360 that sense of new bliness consideringly help even something like 3:05:01.400 --> 3:05:05.280 a community garden being able to connect with Nietzsche again 3:05:05.720 --> 3:05:07.960 well at all for the first time. You can really 3:05:08.000 --> 3:05:11.400 help lifeheart and we don't have to make it harder 3:05:11.440 --> 3:05:13.800 for each other. So you can follow me on Twitter, 3:05:15.360 --> 3:05:19.920 I don't discuss seeming Drew on YouTube dot com, slash 3:05:20.080 --> 3:05:26.000 andreids m pature dot com slash seemed True and I 3:05:26.080 --> 3:05:45.600 have been your host of It Could Happen You Pece Hey. 3:05:45.640 --> 3:05:49.640 It's it Could Happen Here, a podcast about usually bad 3:05:49.720 --> 3:05:52.560 things happening, all the bad things that are happening everywhere, 3:05:52.600 --> 3:05:55.840 but occasionally about good things happening and people doing cool 3:05:55.879 --> 3:05:58.440 stuff to make a better world. And this Lucky you, 3:05:58.680 --> 3:06:00.760 Lucky all of us happens to be one of the 3:06:00.840 --> 3:06:04.120 latter kinds of episodes when we talk about good things happening. 3:06:04.800 --> 3:06:07.480 UH with me in the studio, which is more of 3:06:07.520 --> 3:06:10.720 an a femoral concept than a physical studio because there's 3:06:10.720 --> 3:06:14.119 a plague going on. Is James Stout and Garrison Davis 3:06:14.480 --> 3:06:20.920 co hosting the podcast Hello Fellas Now Today. The thing 3:06:20.959 --> 3:06:23.960 that we're talking about. UM, we we had about a 3:06:23.959 --> 3:06:26.879 week or so two weeks ago represent a couple of 3:06:26.879 --> 3:06:30.279 representatives from the Elm Fork John Brown Gun Club in Dallas, 3:06:30.320 --> 3:06:33.320 Texas come in UH, and they had been providing armed 3:06:33.720 --> 3:06:36.760 security at a couple of different Dallas area protests against 3:06:36.840 --> 3:06:40.640 Christian nationalists. UM. I do recommend checking out those episodes. 3:06:41.120 --> 3:06:44.039 This week, we have one representative from that organization back 3:06:44.080 --> 3:06:46.560 on and what we'll be talking about is there have 3:06:46.600 --> 3:06:50.920 been a series of attempted sweeps in Dallas at a 3:06:50.920 --> 3:06:54.320 homeless camp UM. And if you're not familiar with the concept, basically, 3:06:55.160 --> 3:06:59.320 people who are experiencing homelessness set up encampments in order 3:06:59.360 --> 3:07:02.000 to live with some degree of comfort and have you know, 3:07:02.120 --> 3:07:05.280 their stuff with them. UM. These are generally in places 3:07:05.320 --> 3:07:10.560 like parks, under overpasses, that kind of situation, and periodically 3:07:10.640 --> 3:07:12.800 the city will come through and sweep them. The city's 3:07:12.879 --> 3:07:15.240 language is always very much focused towards we're trying to 3:07:15.280 --> 3:07:19.440 help them, you know, get into some sort of situation 3:07:19.480 --> 3:07:22.440 where they can find help. But what usually winds up 3:07:22.480 --> 3:07:25.199 happening is the city takes a bunch of people's stuff 3:07:25.240 --> 3:07:30.080 and throws it in the trash, often before extreme weather events. UM. 3:07:30.120 --> 3:07:33.200 It's a really gnarly thing to experience, and activists in 3:07:33.200 --> 3:07:36.760 a number of cities have experimented with different tactics to 3:07:36.800 --> 3:07:39.520 try and stop and delay sweeps. And what we've had 3:07:39.600 --> 3:07:43.880 happening lately. Over the last week in Dallas is representatives 3:07:43.959 --> 3:07:46.840 of the Elm Fork John Brown Gun Club have been 3:07:46.840 --> 3:07:51.560 showing up armed alongside activists with Say It with Your 3:07:51.600 --> 3:07:54.760 Chest Dallas, And the kind of thing that's been spreading 3:07:54.760 --> 3:07:57.280 on Twitter is, of course the fact that activists have 3:07:57.320 --> 3:07:59.000 shown up with guns to stop the sweeps and the 3:07:59.080 --> 3:08:01.400 Dallas police have not shown up to do the sweeps. 3:08:01.760 --> 3:08:03.480 The thing that often gets missed in this kind of 3:08:03.520 --> 3:08:06.080 Twitter level discourse, although is covered in a pretty good 3:08:06.160 --> 3:08:09.160 Dallas Morning News article on the subject, is that there 3:08:09.200 --> 3:08:11.560 have also been activists, as I said, from the Say 3:08:11.600 --> 3:08:14.119 It with Your Chest movement, who have been showing up 3:08:14.120 --> 3:08:17.760 to help people, to provide laundry service, transportation, food and water. 3:08:18.320 --> 3:08:20.680 And essentially what they've been doing is trying to help 3:08:20.680 --> 3:08:24.039 people get things together and organized to move to a 3:08:24.080 --> 3:08:28.480 new location, um, in a manner that allows them to 3:08:28.680 --> 3:08:31.320 do so with like dignity and comfort and not get 3:08:31.360 --> 3:08:34.080 their stuff thrown out by the city or experienced violence 3:08:34.120 --> 3:08:36.840 from the police while it's happening. So um, that is 3:08:36.879 --> 3:08:40.320 the broad situation. I'm not gonna say anymore myself. I 3:08:40.360 --> 3:08:43.040 want to introduce Danny from Say with Your Chest Dallas 3:08:43.080 --> 3:08:45.320 and Bubble from the um Fort John Brown Gun Club. 3:08:45.360 --> 3:08:47.520 Thank you both for being on the show, Thanks for 3:08:47.560 --> 3:08:50.800 having me, Thank you for having us. Um was that 3:08:50.840 --> 3:08:56.520 a broadly accurate summary of events? Um? Yeah, for the 3:08:56.600 --> 3:08:59.640 for the most part, the city has actually been sweeping 3:09:00.160 --> 3:09:05.600 several They're they're cracking down on houselessness right now, very 3:09:05.720 --> 3:09:08.920 very aggressive. And so it's not just that one camp 3:09:09.000 --> 3:09:11.959 that we were defending the other day, but um, the 3:09:12.080 --> 3:09:17.280 monday before we were defending another camp. And UM, I've 3:09:17.320 --> 3:09:20.640 never seen this many sweeps happen at one time, and 3:09:20.840 --> 3:09:23.080 I've been doing this for a little over two years now. 3:09:23.840 --> 3:09:25.600 I want to actually go a little bit into how 3:09:25.600 --> 3:09:28.119 your organization formed, but before that, do you have any 3:09:28.200 --> 3:09:31.879 kind of can you posit why the city has suddenly 3:09:32.040 --> 3:09:38.560 ramped up sweeps so aggressively in Dallas so uh normally 3:09:39.200 --> 3:09:41.800 talking to the residents, I've never I've never seen it 3:09:41.840 --> 3:09:44.000 happen like multiple times in the week. Usually they'll do 3:09:44.080 --> 3:09:48.240 one uh way a little bit we'll hear a couple 3:09:48.320 --> 3:09:51.640 years later or something, but multiple in a week at 3:09:51.680 --> 3:09:57.160 different spots is definitely, um, definitely new to us. UM 3:09:57.200 --> 3:10:01.039 As for why the typical reason are like you know, 3:10:01.080 --> 3:10:03.119 the state there comes up in October, so they'll try 3:10:03.160 --> 3:10:07.680 to sweep then. UM. Or they'll do it um usually 3:10:08.000 --> 3:10:12.400 like a housing development UM and things like that, where 3:10:12.480 --> 3:10:15.000 like the land is brought up or you know something. 3:10:15.080 --> 3:10:20.959 But recently, UM, the motivations have been a little bit 3:10:21.000 --> 3:10:29.920 more unclear with the aggression. UM. It's kind of the 3:10:29.920 --> 3:10:34.760 the city in terms of how they execute sweeps. It 3:10:34.959 --> 3:10:38.760 used to be that code compliance could not touch people's belongings. 3:10:39.720 --> 3:10:46.640 Recently it has shifted to take everything, throw away everything. UM. 3:10:46.720 --> 3:10:50.200 But yeah, we still don't know why all happening yet. 3:10:50.920 --> 3:10:53.960 It is certainly like part of a nationwide trend because 3:10:53.959 --> 3:10:57.240 we're having the same things happen in Portland increasingly. And 3:10:57.240 --> 3:11:00.480 obviously Portland and Dallas aren't the only cities were sweeps 3:11:00.480 --> 3:11:03.360 have been ramped up. UM. And of course you also 3:11:03.440 --> 3:11:05.879 have oh gosh, I I just ran across the article 3:11:05.959 --> 3:11:09.520 today that like there's discussion in certain cities about like, yes, 3:11:09.600 --> 3:11:12.879 somewhere in Florida about like putting houseless people in like 3:11:13.000 --> 3:11:17.480 essentially an island compound and whatnot, like basically like a 3:11:17.520 --> 3:11:22.680 concentration camp. Right. Yeah, that's been also mentioned by people 3:11:22.680 --> 3:11:26.040 affiliated with like the Portland City Council in the Mayor's office. 3:11:26.280 --> 3:11:31.800 It's like essentially getting a concentrated collection of homeless people 3:11:31.800 --> 3:11:35.000 in one closed off area and you're like, uh, I wonder, 3:11:35.160 --> 3:11:38.640 I wonder what they mean by that. Yeah, it's it's unsettling. 3:11:38.760 --> 3:11:41.760 So I'm curious because obviously I think what y'all are 3:11:41.760 --> 3:11:44.240 doing in Dallas right now is extremely important, and you've 3:11:44.280 --> 3:11:47.360 been having a lot of success so far. I wanted 3:11:47.400 --> 3:11:50.640 to talk a little bit about how your organization because 3:11:50.680 --> 3:11:52.840 we we chatted with the John Brown Gun Club folks 3:11:52.879 --> 3:11:55.080 a couple of weeks ago about how they started organizing. 3:11:55.360 --> 3:12:00.160 How did say it with your chest get off the ground? Um, 3:12:00.800 --> 3:12:03.720 so that was interesting. Stay with your Chest originally started 3:12:04.080 --> 3:12:06.080 along with a lot of orcs and mutually at works 3:12:06.080 --> 3:12:11.040 in Dallas. Um after George Floyd was more murdered back 3:12:11.040 --> 3:12:15.000 in June of like, um, we started. Um. I was 3:12:15.000 --> 3:12:16.560 in play Now at the time, which is like a 3:12:16.600 --> 3:12:22.520 suburb Yeah, where I grew up. Oh really Yeah, I 3:12:22.520 --> 3:12:26.120 wasn't playing at the time, and uh, you know, I, 3:12:28.040 --> 3:12:30.800 me and my friends were kind of like these suburban 3:12:30.840 --> 3:12:33.000 people can turn off their TVs and not really have 3:12:33.040 --> 3:12:35.240 to worry about the protest going on. Downtown and things 3:12:35.280 --> 3:12:37.920 like that. So we would protest on street corners and 3:12:37.959 --> 3:12:41.000 just yell at you know, white people in their Mercedes 3:12:41.240 --> 3:12:45.400 and you know, make them uncomfortable on purpose. Um. Then 3:12:45.440 --> 3:12:48.160 we started linking up with other mutual aid orcs in Dallas, 3:12:48.240 --> 3:12:50.080 and you know it was just shaping food, trying to 3:12:50.120 --> 3:12:55.359 carry that stuff up north. Um. And then uh then 3:12:55.480 --> 3:13:00.600 we um, well I started going to Camp Ronda UM, 3:13:00.640 --> 3:13:10.000 which was like a probably the first and like it 3:13:10.080 --> 3:13:14.440 was a very solid example of a self sustating, houseless 3:13:14.520 --> 3:13:18.279 encampment where we're just allowed to be and left alone. 3:13:18.320 --> 3:13:20.560 We're helping people left at them and recovery and things 3:13:20.600 --> 3:13:23.560 like that, and um, everyone looked out for each other. 3:13:23.600 --> 3:13:26.760 It was a really great community for that was such 3:13:26.760 --> 3:13:31.440 a rad project. Um. Not to derail it too much, 3:13:31.480 --> 3:13:34.040 but I want to tell you guys about Camp Randa. Yeah, 3:13:34.520 --> 3:13:40.039 like that's tically organized on houses camp. The organizers outside 3:13:40.120 --> 3:13:43.560 organizers were there everyday helping. The camp itself was organized 3:13:43.600 --> 3:13:47.439 amongst themselves. They had political theory meetings, they had community 3:13:47.480 --> 3:13:52.640 meetings to solve issues and resolve inter personal problems. Fucking 3:13:52.720 --> 3:13:57.000 rad um. And it stayed together for nine months. It 3:13:57.080 --> 3:13:59.400 was it lasted for a minute. I know it was 3:13:59.800 --> 3:14:03.720 a proximate. It was over six I believe. But it 3:14:03.840 --> 3:14:08.920 lasted for a while at one location and then it 3:14:09.080 --> 3:14:12.440 had to move and then um the next location we 3:14:12.520 --> 3:14:14.720 ended up moving all the people to. They stayed there 3:14:14.760 --> 3:14:18.120 first all ten months before um the city sold the 3:14:18.240 --> 3:14:22.120 land and like some under the table deal and showed 3:14:22.160 --> 3:14:24.720 up and swept everybody. It reminds me quite a bit 3:14:24.760 --> 3:14:27.840 of a place I I worked out in Seattle for 3:14:27.879 --> 3:14:30.920 a while, Nicholsville, which was a plot of land, a 3:14:30.920 --> 3:14:33.800 couple of acres large where houseless people had set up 3:14:34.160 --> 3:14:37.000 basically built like a tiny home village for themselves. They 3:14:37.080 --> 3:14:40.959 provided solar power, um, they had arranged their own like 3:14:41.040 --> 3:14:45.959 trash pick up. Um. It was safe and uh, very 3:14:46.000 --> 3:14:49.600 well organized and very comfortable, like an actual fairly high 3:14:49.680 --> 3:14:53.600 standard of living UM good level like good good wastewater 3:14:53.680 --> 3:14:56.960 treatment and all that kind of stuff. Um, which existed 3:14:56.959 --> 3:14:59.000 for a couple of years before the city came in 3:14:59.040 --> 3:15:01.800 and swept it and destroyed everybody's houses and force them, 3:15:01.840 --> 3:15:07.760 you know into again kind of a series of camping situations. UM. Yeah, 3:15:07.840 --> 3:15:10.640 which is you know, you get these It's it's very 3:15:10.640 --> 3:15:13.160 frustrating because there's this understanding that like, well, we want 3:15:13.200 --> 3:15:16.039 them in And part of the understanding you get from 3:15:16.080 --> 3:15:18.000 a number of cities is like, well, we do want 3:15:18.040 --> 3:15:21.240 them in one place, and we want them in something 3:15:21.280 --> 3:15:24.560 that's more permanent than you know, a bunch of tents. 3:15:24.600 --> 3:15:26.680 But if they set that up on their own and 3:15:26.920 --> 3:15:30.160 have autonomy and have the ability to like exist with 3:15:30.200 --> 3:15:33.200 any kind of personal freedom, then we don't want that, 3:15:33.280 --> 3:15:37.840 and we will send armed men and to break it up. Yeah, 3:15:37.879 --> 3:15:41.039 Like the city is like, oh yeah, well I don't 3:15:41.680 --> 3:15:44.520 I genuinely do not think that you Dallas wants to 3:15:44.600 --> 3:15:48.720 house people. Um. Otherwise the Office of Homo Solutions simply 3:15:48.760 --> 3:15:52.959 would not exist and they wouldn't have a way to 3:15:53.080 --> 3:15:57.720 just have money sitting around um, and all those people 3:15:57.760 --> 3:16:00.040 would lose their jobs, you know, because it's not not 3:16:00.920 --> 3:16:03.360 housing people. You know, people are like, how do you 3:16:03.400 --> 3:16:07.199 do that? It's not hard, it's not difficult. The city 3:16:07.280 --> 3:16:11.240 is spending what two billion dollars. I'm innovating the convention 3:16:11.240 --> 3:16:14.920 center that could house every house this person in Dallas 3:16:15.000 --> 3:16:18.560 for years, you know. But but then we wouldn't be 3:16:18.600 --> 3:16:21.480 able to have all of the wonderful things. Someone who 3:16:21.480 --> 3:16:24.720 lived in Dallas fifteen years I can remember one, maybe 3:16:24.760 --> 3:16:27.000 even two times when I went to the convention center. 3:16:27.040 --> 3:16:34.080 What would we do? I think maybe one time? What's 3:16:34.080 --> 3:16:37.880 along with it to where we had like it's Dallas 3:16:38.240 --> 3:16:43.440 prioritizes developers over anything else, and that is more than 3:16:44.680 --> 3:16:49.360 a parent in how they treat the house's population. Um, 3:16:49.400 --> 3:16:55.000 they're definitely because it's like my my problem, right, Okay, 3:16:55.000 --> 3:16:56.959 if the city, the city is gonna do sweeps, that's 3:16:57.000 --> 3:17:00.240 something that I can't really necessarily stop them from doing 3:17:00.240 --> 3:17:03.440 on my own, but we can and alleviate some of 3:17:03.440 --> 3:17:07.760 the effects of you know, Um, but when this is 3:17:07.760 --> 3:17:11.840 sweeping people in the heat like that, we're in the cold, elderly, 3:17:11.959 --> 3:17:16.240 just a people, It's like, y'all really are just telling 3:17:16.280 --> 3:17:20.600 them to die in the least you could do. And 3:17:20.640 --> 3:17:26.920 I've emailed Marcy Jackson, who's the community outreach chair for OHS, 3:17:28.040 --> 3:17:32.240 you know, She's been like, well, they can go to 3:17:32.320 --> 3:17:36.040 the shelter. It's it's about it's within three miles, And 3:17:36.080 --> 3:17:39.280 I'm like, you you're gonna walk three You're telling somebody 3:17:39.320 --> 3:17:42.440 who's older than this able to walk three miles in 3:17:42.480 --> 3:17:45.440 a hundred and seven degree heat to get to a 3:17:45.480 --> 3:17:51.080 cooling station. That is only open to like five. Well, uh, 3:17:51.200 --> 3:17:53.920 there's a lot of cognitive dissonance in the city. Just 3:17:54.000 --> 3:17:55.840 for a little bit of reference too, because like we 3:17:55.920 --> 3:17:58.800 have cooling stations and stuff up in Portland and you 3:17:58.840 --> 3:18:02.040 have similar problems. One thing that is a benefit to 3:18:02.120 --> 3:18:05.480 folks in a place like ore Agon is that after 3:18:05.680 --> 3:18:08.800 five six pm, when like this cooling stations start to 3:18:08.800 --> 3:18:11.320 call down, it actually does cool down here, Like it 3:18:11.400 --> 3:18:13.760 gets cool at night even when it's a hundred outside. 3:18:13.959 --> 3:18:18.279 That doesn't happen in Dallas during this Yeah, I've literally 3:18:18.320 --> 3:18:21.720 had it be triple digits at midnight in fu Dallas, Texas, 3:18:21.800 --> 3:18:26.680 Like that's the place it is. No, so you're still 3:18:26.720 --> 3:18:28.640 it's it's still a threat to life and limb even 3:18:28.640 --> 3:18:31.880 when the sun's not beating down on you. Yeah, sometimes 3:18:31.879 --> 3:18:34.480 it was cooling shelters, I know. Certainly, like here, we 3:18:34.520 --> 3:18:36.800 have a bunch of issues with shelters and calling shelters 3:18:36.800 --> 3:18:39.560 and stuff, like you don't have privacy, you can't bring 3:18:39.600 --> 3:18:42.320 your pets. They want you to look all your possessions 3:18:42.360 --> 3:18:45.720 up somewhere else. There are like a number of other 3:18:45.800 --> 3:18:48.520 things that really limit people's ability to feel safe accessing. 3:18:48.520 --> 3:18:50.160 I don't know if it's the same there, but like 3:18:50.600 --> 3:18:52.800 it's not that there's necessarily a place where someone would 3:18:52.800 --> 3:18:54.400 feel safe and I'm not going there. It's when I 3:18:54.480 --> 3:18:57.240 made that clear. Pets are a big issue, and this 3:18:57.280 --> 3:18:59.480 is something that again when I was at Nicholsville, people 3:18:59.520 --> 3:19:02.600 would point out that, like folks would accuse them of 3:19:02.640 --> 3:19:05.320 being like abusive because they had a cat or a dog, 3:19:05.520 --> 3:19:07.800 you know, that was living with them in the encampment. 3:19:07.800 --> 3:19:11.160 And they'd be like, well, number one, like it's okay 3:19:11.160 --> 3:19:12.760 for me to live this way, but it's not okay 3:19:12.840 --> 3:19:16.280 for like a cat or a dog. And also just 3:19:16.320 --> 3:19:19.480 like do I not deserve companionship and love in my life? 3:19:19.480 --> 3:19:21.200 Like this is what this animal is one of the 3:19:21.600 --> 3:19:23.640 is one of the things that helps keep me. And 3:19:23.680 --> 3:19:25.240 I talked to a number of folks who got back 3:19:25.240 --> 3:19:27.200 into housing who were like, if we had not had 3:19:27.200 --> 3:19:29.560 our cat with us, like, I don't know that we 3:19:29.560 --> 3:19:32.200 would have made it, because just having that animal with 3:19:32.320 --> 3:19:34.840 us like helped. Like it's it's for the same reason 3:19:34.840 --> 3:19:39.360 everybody has animals, right, Like every single house, this person 3:19:39.440 --> 3:19:43.480 that has a pet has a service animal has as 3:19:43.520 --> 3:19:46.400 a service animals far as I'm concerned, would you separate 3:19:46.480 --> 3:19:50.320 somebody who is disabled from their wheelchair. Would you separate 3:19:50.440 --> 3:19:54.840 somebody from there, like their service animal, their dog that 3:19:54.959 --> 3:19:59.120 they eat, you know, And it's like when you're out there, UM, 3:19:59.160 --> 3:20:00.720 I know that a lot of people will have dogs 3:20:00.720 --> 3:20:04.200 for comfort, but also dogs are protection, they are security 3:20:04.400 --> 3:20:09.160 in such a dangerous environment UM, where people are always 3:20:09.240 --> 3:20:15.280 you know, like it's just it's just it is unfathomable 3:20:15.360 --> 3:20:20.760 how much trauma UM goes into being houseless, especially in Dallas, 3:20:20.840 --> 3:20:25.760 in places like Dalla. UM. So I'd like to ask 3:20:25.800 --> 3:20:28.600 you a little bit, so you have been Is this 3:20:28.680 --> 3:20:31.320 kind of the first collaboration this last week or so, 3:20:31.840 --> 3:20:33.879 let's say it with your chest has had with the 3:20:33.879 --> 3:20:35.840 the Elm Fork John Brown Gun Club. Have you guys 3:20:35.920 --> 3:20:39.520 been working together prior to this? Uh? Yeah, yeah, like 3:20:39.720 --> 3:20:42.680 we UM I originally met members of Elm Fork when 3:20:43.000 --> 3:20:49.280 UM Camp Ronda first started, uh back in UM and 3:20:49.320 --> 3:20:52.840 we were collaborating on like getting people's supplies, UM tents 3:20:52.879 --> 3:20:56.840 and things like that. I would run laundry UM with 3:20:56.879 --> 3:21:02.800 my org uh and yeah, we were we just you know, 3:21:03.320 --> 3:21:05.920 always collaborated to make sure like the people could get 3:21:05.959 --> 3:21:08.240 what they need. If somebody had supplied, someone was able 3:21:08.280 --> 3:21:11.320 to show up and we couldn't you know, UM just 3:21:11.360 --> 3:21:16.360 working together again And I'm curious, UM, could you kind 3:21:16.360 --> 3:21:19.680 of walk us through sort of how what you see 3:21:19.720 --> 3:21:23.000 is the benefit of having folks who are visibly armed 3:21:23.240 --> 3:21:26.040 UM for this kind of for these kind of actions, 3:21:26.080 --> 3:21:28.600 Like how did how did number one sweep defense tend 3:21:28.640 --> 3:21:31.160 to work before y'all were doing that, and how has 3:21:31.240 --> 3:21:34.640 that altered kind of the way in which you're seeing 3:21:36.040 --> 3:21:43.119 this activism like take effect. UM. As far as I know, 3:21:43.560 --> 3:21:47.120 people from members of ELM four because I have always 3:21:47.120 --> 3:21:51.360 shown up with UM firearms in some capacity, whether it's 3:21:51.440 --> 3:21:56.440 concealed or open. But UM, there was a noticeable difference 3:21:56.480 --> 3:21:59.560 with the open carry UM. I know that back in 3:21:59.760 --> 3:22:02.000 Chad you worry when one of our other camps was 3:22:02.040 --> 3:22:06.360 getting swept UM and they showed up Like afterwards, we 3:22:06.400 --> 3:22:09.480 had a meeting with the director of UM Home Solutions, 3:22:09.560 --> 3:22:17.520 Christine Crosley. She sucks UM and uh. She was like, 3:22:18.480 --> 3:22:21.200 people were like, we were hearing reports of people that 3:22:21.280 --> 3:22:24.760 were openly armed, and we want to we really care 3:22:24.760 --> 3:22:27.480 about the safety of like the unhoused residents out there, 3:22:27.520 --> 3:22:30.200 And I was like they were more afraid of the 3:22:30.280 --> 3:22:35.439 cops than of the five people out here with with rifles, 3:22:35.480 --> 3:22:38.400 and that's that's something It's like, if you're gonna show 3:22:38.520 --> 3:22:44.680 up with twelve dudes with guns, what's the problem with 3:22:45.000 --> 3:22:48.160 some of us showing up with like a little something 3:22:48.240 --> 3:22:50.840 just in case? You know, the state should not be 3:22:50.920 --> 3:22:56.280 the only one to have access to firearms that very dangerous. UM. 3:22:56.320 --> 3:23:00.640 But also I don't mean that in a to a 3:23:00.840 --> 3:23:04.280 kind of way if that makes sensitive. Yeah, that does 3:23:04.320 --> 3:23:06.680 kind of bring up an interesting point, which is if 3:23:06.720 --> 3:23:08.760 you're showing as you're showing up kind of in this 3:23:08.879 --> 3:23:11.920 capacity with both activists to kind of help folks with 3:23:11.959 --> 3:23:14.280 their stuff, with with laundry and other needs, but also 3:23:14.360 --> 3:23:17.680 people who are are carrying are fifteens and wearing plate carriers. 3:23:18.000 --> 3:23:20.520 I imagine there's like a degree to which you are 3:23:20.520 --> 3:23:22.959 trying to give people a heads up before just so 3:23:23.000 --> 3:23:25.360 they don't be like, oh, suddenly there's folks with guns. 3:23:25.360 --> 3:23:27.600 What's going on? Right? Can you kind of walk us 3:23:27.640 --> 3:23:31.440 through the community outreach explaining sort of like how you 3:23:31.760 --> 3:23:34.280 how you actually go about letting people know what's going 3:23:34.320 --> 3:23:36.400 to be happening and stuff and and what the folks 3:23:36.400 --> 3:23:42.640 showing up are doing well when it comes to sweeps 3:23:43.160 --> 3:23:48.080 UM and normally I focus a lot on just making 3:23:48.080 --> 3:23:52.760 sure that people are okay and defending them. Um. When 3:23:53.000 --> 3:23:58.640 I I do not necessarily like ask for work to 3:23:58.760 --> 3:24:01.440 show up with guns. I'm more like I assume if 3:24:01.520 --> 3:24:03.200 y'all are going to be there, they are going to 3:24:03.280 --> 3:24:10.720 be um, you know. And sometimes there was Usually the 3:24:10.760 --> 3:24:13.920 residents are like the residents have some of the residents 3:24:13.920 --> 3:24:19.440 have firearms themselves, you know, so they're like, well aware. Um, 3:24:19.480 --> 3:24:21.720 there are some cases where like people will get a 3:24:21.720 --> 3:24:24.039 little bit anxious about it, and you know, we kind 3:24:24.040 --> 3:24:27.360 of have to be like, if you really don't want 3:24:27.360 --> 3:24:30.160 the guns here, then that's fine, we can move them. 3:24:30.200 --> 3:24:33.440 But in the past, with this track record, like usually 3:24:33.520 --> 3:24:35.160 the city kind of backs off a little bit when 3:24:35.200 --> 3:24:40.599 they know that y'all are actolutely protected, you know, because um, 3:24:40.720 --> 3:24:43.360 the city is the city is a bully. They really 3:24:43.360 --> 3:24:47.119 do like picking on people who the most vulnerable of us, 3:24:47.680 --> 3:24:52.680 you know. Um, And so lately the guns have been 3:24:52.720 --> 3:24:57.879 seeming to have them back off a little bit. I 3:24:57.920 --> 3:25:00.440 know when they pulled up, Like when ELM we're pulled 3:25:00.520 --> 3:25:03.640 up and hopped out the car with the rifles, all 3:25:03.680 --> 3:25:05.760 of the cops are at we squatted up into like 3:25:05.800 --> 3:25:08.920 a little a little I don't know, pick circle and 3:25:08.959 --> 3:25:13.039 they started talking, uh, and they were genuinely like what 3:25:13.080 --> 3:25:18.240 do we do? Hold on? You know? Yeah, And it's 3:25:18.360 --> 3:25:20.160 I mean that's kind of the that's kind of the 3:25:20.200 --> 3:25:22.680 story as we're coming into it right now, which is 3:25:22.720 --> 3:25:24.840 there were supposed to be a sweep. What is it 3:25:24.879 --> 3:25:29.400 five days ago now, Friday? Yeah, almost a week and 3:25:29.440 --> 3:25:31.440 you all have been showing up a couple of times 3:25:31.440 --> 3:25:33.680 in that period to help people get there, get things 3:25:33.720 --> 3:25:36.680 together and whatnot and get get which is an important 3:25:36.720 --> 3:25:39.720 The fact that you're helping them kind of move and 3:25:39.720 --> 3:25:42.120 and doing it more in kind of their own time 3:25:42.120 --> 3:25:44.320 frame as opposed to the city shows up and you've 3:25:44.360 --> 3:25:47.680 got to like grab what you can or lose everything, um, 3:25:47.840 --> 3:25:50.600 is important because you're also you're not just showing up 3:25:50.600 --> 3:25:54.320 with activists with guns and saying like the city we're 3:25:54.360 --> 3:25:57.280 not going to let any like no one's going to move, 3:25:57.320 --> 3:25:59.760 and we're like we're we're drawing a line in the sand, 3:25:59.800 --> 3:26:02.680 which is not would not be a particularly safe call. 3:26:02.760 --> 3:26:08.120 I wouldn't think my my main priority out there, because 3:26:08.160 --> 3:26:11.600 there's a lot of black and brown bodies out there 3:26:11.600 --> 3:26:17.880 people is making sure we are safe and um, even 3:26:17.920 --> 3:26:20.680 before this last one, Like a lot of us were 3:26:20.760 --> 3:26:24.039 concerned about the guns because like we didn't want things 3:26:24.080 --> 3:26:27.760 to escalate, and we never know with police, sometimes they 3:26:27.800 --> 3:26:32.520 get really excited and then sometimes they back off. It's really, uh, 3:26:33.400 --> 3:26:36.920 we really don't know. Um, So we were also taking 3:26:36.959 --> 3:26:40.360 that into consideration. UM. And I was kind of like 3:26:40.680 --> 3:26:43.680 the unfork No, like, listen, there's a lot of black 3:26:43.680 --> 3:26:46.080 and brown people out here, and we don't want to 3:26:47.040 --> 3:26:53.200 escalate anything and you know, put people in danger. Um. 3:26:53.280 --> 3:26:55.720 And it seems like this time, the city I didn't 3:26:55.760 --> 3:26:59.120 really want to mess with that. So that's good, but 3:27:00.360 --> 3:27:02.400 it's always important to keep that in mind any time 3:27:02.440 --> 3:27:09.040 you have firearms. Oh yes, population And I'm curious, um, bubble, 3:27:09.160 --> 3:27:12.560 can you talk a little bit about the how this 3:27:12.680 --> 3:27:15.280 kind of organizing is sort of different than the stuff 3:27:15.280 --> 3:27:17.840 you've been doing at at counterprotesting events. Like what are 3:27:17.920 --> 3:27:20.600 kind of the different things that y'all are keeping in 3:27:20.680 --> 3:27:23.240 mind as you as you make action plans for days 3:27:23.280 --> 3:27:25.400 like this compared to when you know you're showing up 3:27:25.440 --> 3:27:27.640 to at a at a protest to kind of counter 3:27:28.200 --> 3:27:33.640 groups of Proud Boys or whatever. Yeah, it's pretty different, um, 3:27:33.720 --> 3:27:39.520 in that when we're doing security for marches, or um, 3:27:39.560 --> 3:27:44.080 you know, protecting pride events. Uh, it's not like a 3:27:44.120 --> 3:27:50.120 direct confrontation with so it's it's a bit it's a 3:27:50.120 --> 3:27:53.160 bit different. It's a little bit more high stakes. Um. 3:27:53.200 --> 3:27:55.840 When we do stop the sweep things, you know, we 3:27:55.879 --> 3:27:58.280 want to we want to push back, but at the 3:27:58.320 --> 3:28:01.720 same um, you know, not be the first to cross 3:28:01.760 --> 3:28:06.440 any lines. Um. So it is, you know, it is. 3:28:06.520 --> 3:28:10.240 It is a more sensitive situation. I think it requires 3:28:10.720 --> 3:28:13.680 different kind of planning. Um. And of course there's there's 3:28:13.720 --> 3:28:16.240 all these bystanders, there's all of the residents there who 3:28:16.240 --> 3:28:19.040 were there the help that we don't want to endanger 3:28:19.040 --> 3:28:21.800 in any way. Um. Like Danny was saying. I actually 3:28:21.840 --> 3:28:26.119 had um what ended up being a pretty cool conversation 3:28:26.360 --> 3:28:29.680 with a resident afterward. But he was kind of an 3:28:29.760 --> 3:28:32.480 organizer in the camp and he was talking to me 3:28:32.520 --> 3:28:35.360 and he said, you know, I don't think we want 3:28:35.400 --> 3:28:38.640 the guns, like, we don't want any trouble. And I 3:28:38.720 --> 3:28:42.280 leaned over to him and I whispered to him, Look, 3:28:42.360 --> 3:28:45.160 we're just here with guns to try to get the 3:28:45.200 --> 3:28:49.199 cops to back off. Um. I think they're actually backing 3:28:49.200 --> 3:28:51.280 off now because we had actually just heard the cops 3:28:51.280 --> 3:28:53.320 that we're going to leave. I said, I think they're 3:28:53.320 --> 3:28:56.480 backing off. We're gone, don't worry about it. And he said, 3:28:56.520 --> 3:29:02.480 wait wait, you know, don't leave yet, wait till they leave. Um. 3:29:02.520 --> 3:29:05.760 And now that that's uh, I am interested like as 3:29:05.800 --> 3:29:09.640 the uh the actual folks showing up armed bubble. Do 3:29:09.720 --> 3:29:12.959 you guys have kind of a like standard set of 3:29:13.000 --> 3:29:15.200 responses and stuff that you work through ahead of time 3:29:15.200 --> 3:29:17.119 to kind of explain things to people and make sure 3:29:17.120 --> 3:29:19.080 everyone's on the same page in terms of how they're 3:29:19.080 --> 3:29:23.840 doing it. Um. Yeah, we have some of that worked out. 3:29:23.920 --> 3:29:27.200 That's an evolving thing where we're trying to standardize. Yeah. 3:29:27.360 --> 3:29:30.240 Worked a long time with a core group of people 3:29:30.280 --> 3:29:34.080 that knows each other really well. Um. So we have 3:29:34.360 --> 3:29:37.320 like seen each other at you know, dozens of these 3:29:37.360 --> 3:29:42.200 things and we know how each other operate. With some 3:29:42.320 --> 3:29:45.040 newer people coming in, you know, we are working now 3:29:45.200 --> 3:29:49.360 on kind of standardizing those responses and uh, you know, 3:29:49.480 --> 3:29:54.680 sharing our past experiences and are thinking and all that. Um. Now, 3:29:54.800 --> 3:29:58.720 question for for both Slash either of you, as you've 3:29:58.879 --> 3:30:01.880 gotten more into do sweep defenses, what have been some 3:30:01.920 --> 3:30:05.080 of kind of the lessons learned things that have been like, Okay, 3:30:05.240 --> 3:30:07.200 we went into it thinking like this was a good 3:30:07.240 --> 3:30:09.320 idea and it turned out that like that doesn't work 3:30:09.400 --> 3:30:10.840 very well. So we've had to do this like just 3:30:10.920 --> 3:30:14.520 things that have kind of um best practices that have 3:30:14.600 --> 3:30:23.080 kind of evolved over time doing this UM. Honestly a 3:30:23.120 --> 3:30:25.680 lot of it a lot when when tensions are really 3:30:25.760 --> 3:30:29.840 high like that, UM, because you come to sweeps like 3:30:29.920 --> 3:30:36.080 I'm the one kind of like dealing with UM a 3:30:36.120 --> 3:30:39.520 lot of like overseeing and stuff like that, and when 3:30:39.520 --> 3:30:42.840 tensions are really high like that. Honestly, the thing is 3:30:42.879 --> 3:30:47.039 harm reduction. Harm Reduction is at the pinnacle of it's 3:30:47.080 --> 3:30:51.280 at the core of like whatever we do, and part 3:30:51.280 --> 3:30:54.240 of that is meeting people where they're at UM and 3:30:54.280 --> 3:30:59.920 making sure that we UM help the people I show up, 3:31:00.680 --> 3:31:02.720 I shoot you not. One of the best things that 3:31:02.800 --> 3:31:05.120 we started doing is showing up with packs of Newports 3:31:06.240 --> 3:31:09.959 on God. It makes it a lot UM. You know, 3:31:10.000 --> 3:31:13.240 when you're going through trauma like that, UM and someone 3:31:13.280 --> 3:31:17.760 hands you a cigarette, that's something that not only helps 3:31:17.879 --> 3:31:21.520 you kind of regulate yourself when you're experiencing this high 3:31:21.520 --> 3:31:24.200 stress situation where you're being evicted from your home and 3:31:24.440 --> 3:31:26.280 you're gonna lose your stuff and you're afraid people are 3:31:26.280 --> 3:31:29.840 gonna steal things, and it's a whole lot that helps 3:31:30.240 --> 3:31:33.800 bring people back and it makes it a lot easier 3:31:33.920 --> 3:31:39.120 for us to UM work with people and UM still 3:31:39.200 --> 3:31:43.080 maintain the bonds that we've created and maintain the levels 3:31:43.120 --> 3:31:46.640 of trust that we have with the community. UM literally 3:31:47.080 --> 3:31:51.400 some simple things like handing out cigarettes, UM during because 3:31:51.440 --> 3:31:53.240 that's a way that we're like, hey, we're here for you, 3:31:53.600 --> 3:31:56.560 we know what you need, yeah, and we're not We're 3:31:56.600 --> 3:32:00.199 also we're not here to like judge what's best for you, 3:32:00.200 --> 3:32:02.320 you know, and do some like nanny state ship, like 3:32:02.480 --> 3:32:04.959 you need a cigarette right now, right like it's stressful, 3:32:05.360 --> 3:32:08.000 not really like hell, I would need a cigarette to 3:32:08.240 --> 3:32:13.000 you know. At that point, UM, there was somebody who 3:32:13.080 --> 3:32:15.240 was like, you're asking people for newports. You need to 3:32:15.280 --> 3:32:17.879 stop doing that, Like that's really unhealthy. And I thought 3:32:17.920 --> 3:32:19.720 you were trying to say these people and it's like, 3:32:19.800 --> 3:32:24.959 I'm not trying to say for starters. M. We're not 3:32:25.080 --> 3:32:29.840 Captain America. We're not no avengers. Okay, we are regular 3:32:29.959 --> 3:32:33.720 people fulfilling a responsibility, and that responsibility is to be 3:32:33.840 --> 3:32:38.640 there for our neighbors. That's how movements happen, That's how 3:32:38.680 --> 3:32:42.560 anything happens, and all of that is rooted in you know, 3:32:42.800 --> 3:32:47.400 indigenous UM communalism and theory and stuff like that that 3:32:47.480 --> 3:32:51.240 I think is really important. It's just fulfilling that responsibility 3:32:51.240 --> 3:32:54.560 and being there for people and when it comes to 3:32:54.720 --> 3:32:58.000 because you know, we always try to provide folks listening 3:32:58.120 --> 3:33:00.920 in other towns and stuff who maybe like inspired by this, 3:33:01.000 --> 3:33:03.920 with options for how they might move forward on trying 3:33:03.959 --> 3:33:06.480 to replicate some of y'all's successes. If people are looking 3:33:06.480 --> 3:33:09.400 at okay, I would like to help do sweep defensive 3:33:09.720 --> 3:33:12.920 I would like to do, you know, work kind of 3:33:12.959 --> 3:33:16.160 like this in my own community. How do you recommend 3:33:16.200 --> 3:33:19.560 because obviously there's you know, how how to build organizations 3:33:19.640 --> 3:33:21.800 is another matter, But like, if you've got a group 3:33:21.840 --> 3:33:24.040 together to help folks, how do you recommend kind of 3:33:24.360 --> 3:33:27.120 starting the process of introducing yourself Because you can't just 3:33:27.160 --> 3:33:30.640 like show up and be like hey, like just be like, hey, 3:33:30.640 --> 3:33:34.440 we're gonna certainly not with guns, but yeah, and don't 3:33:36.400 --> 3:33:41.280 um you have to develop a really really strong report 3:33:41.360 --> 3:33:43.840 with your community first, and you also need to make 3:33:43.840 --> 3:33:52.400 sure that's your community. Like you know, um, I I've 3:33:52.440 --> 3:33:57.240 spent a really long time creating relationships with the housed 3:33:57.240 --> 3:34:02.440 populations of South Dallas, and that took literal years, you know, 3:34:03.120 --> 3:34:05.640 expecting people to trust you off the bat, and expecting 3:34:05.680 --> 3:34:08.440 people to just like I feel like, oh, you're one 3:34:08.440 --> 3:34:10.800 of the good guys. It's not going to happen, especially 3:34:10.800 --> 3:34:13.320 if you're white. Like, honestly, if we'd be if we're 3:34:13.360 --> 3:34:15.840 keeping in a book, because like, there's a whole lot 3:34:15.879 --> 3:34:18.680 of black and brown people out there in these vulnerable communities, 3:34:19.240 --> 3:34:21.800 and usually the white people that they see are the 3:34:21.800 --> 3:34:23.800 white people who are talking down to them and not 3:34:23.840 --> 3:34:27.000 treating them as human beings. The main thing that people, 3:34:27.040 --> 3:34:30.240 the people out there need most is consistency from you, 3:34:30.360 --> 3:34:32.880 even if you don't even if one day you don't 3:34:32.920 --> 3:34:34.920 have anything and you can just hand out water there 3:34:34.959 --> 3:34:39.160 with them and developing community that way, you know. And 3:34:39.200 --> 3:34:41.119 one of the things that people tell me a lot 3:34:41.920 --> 3:34:45.039 is that just it was It's been very shocking to 3:34:45.120 --> 3:34:47.720 me how much I've heard it is people are like, 3:34:48.000 --> 3:34:50.400 you don't talk to us like how other people talk 3:34:50.480 --> 3:34:55.360 to us. You talk to us like people. And the 3:34:55.400 --> 3:34:58.760 sheer amount of time I was really shocked by how 3:34:58.800 --> 3:35:02.120 many times about stare that because I'm like, you know, 3:35:02.440 --> 3:35:06.039 I don't really think I talked much differently from anybody else. 3:35:06.040 --> 3:35:08.240 But then when I go out there and see other people, 3:35:08.400 --> 3:35:12.520 just random people handing out macgriddles or whatever, you know, 3:35:13.200 --> 3:35:15.640 there's definitely a switch. Like if you were talking to 3:35:16.000 --> 3:35:20.240 a pet or to a child, you know, um, like 3:35:20.320 --> 3:35:25.760 you pity something, people will not want you around because honestly, 3:35:26.360 --> 3:35:29.080 they don't want your pity. What they want is bottles 3:35:29.080 --> 3:35:31.720 of water. You know. If you're just only showing up 3:35:31.760 --> 3:35:35.520 when ships going down, um, you don't actually have the 3:35:35.560 --> 3:35:40.480 people's trust. And I think, if anything, that that hurts 3:35:40.520 --> 3:35:43.600 it a little bit because it's like, oh, I am 3:35:43.680 --> 3:35:46.840 only here to make you feel good about yourself. You 3:35:46.879 --> 3:35:50.320 want to be the one saving everybody. It's like you've 3:35:50.320 --> 3:35:54.880 got to dismantle your savior complex first before you do anything. 3:35:55.680 --> 3:35:59.400 And I think it's good to talk about, um kind 3:35:59.440 --> 3:36:02.160 of how this actually how these actions actually look on 3:36:02.200 --> 3:36:04.600 the ground, because again, the thing that sort of has 3:36:04.640 --> 3:36:07.160 gone semiviral on Twitter has been the fact that like, 3:36:07.760 --> 3:36:10.039 you know, people with guns stood off the cops. But 3:36:10.080 --> 3:36:12.720 if you're imagining some sort of like big armed standoff, 3:36:12.800 --> 3:36:14.480 like that's not how this has looked. Which is the 3:36:14.480 --> 3:36:17.520 thing I liked about the Dallas Morning News article, Um, 3:36:17.600 --> 3:36:19.760 which we will do you mean the article or the 3:36:19.840 --> 3:36:28.720 opinion piece. Sorry, yes, um, I am pulling it up 3:36:28.800 --> 3:36:34.040 right now, just to have that we have an opinion already. Oh, 3:36:34.080 --> 3:36:36.720 any time on howse people pop up in the discourse, 3:36:36.760 --> 3:36:39.039 someone is ready to write and I again, Yeah, it's 3:36:39.080 --> 3:36:43.600 the the article, the article armed activists block Dallas workers 3:36:43.640 --> 3:36:48.520 from cleaning a homeless camp. That's an acceptable opinion. That's 3:36:49.000 --> 3:36:50.960 That's not the one I was talking about. The one 3:36:50.959 --> 3:36:53.320 I'm talking about is titled and it is a news 3:36:53.400 --> 3:36:56.840 article Dallas delays moving homeless camp after activists show up, 3:36:57.320 --> 3:36:59.199 which did a good job of not kind of over 3:36:59.240 --> 3:37:02.840 emphasizing the armed part and talking about the actual work 3:37:02.920 --> 3:37:05.120 y'all we're doing in the community. I was kind of 3:37:05.160 --> 3:37:08.080 impressed with it, especially given the Dallas Morning News is 3:37:08.160 --> 3:37:13.840 most recent like general trends, shall we say, and considering 3:37:13.840 --> 3:37:16.879 their opinion piece they published yesterday. Yeah, I hadn't seen 3:37:16.959 --> 3:37:19.320 that one. Could you talk a little bit about how 3:37:19.360 --> 3:37:22.080 these these actions have actually looked on the ground during 3:37:22.120 --> 3:37:25.720 the day of Yeah, so on the ground, Um, some 3:37:25.800 --> 3:37:30.520 people arrived very early, and you really never know when 3:37:30.520 --> 3:37:32.160 the cops in the city are going to show up. 3:37:33.240 --> 3:37:39.600 So ELM Fork showed up close to nine and they 3:37:39.640 --> 3:37:44.080 are already like four cops there, UM, and that you know, 3:37:44.160 --> 3:37:46.840 that's unfortunate. We probably should have shown up earlier. We 3:37:47.040 --> 3:37:50.120 you know, if if we're going to go to protect 3:37:50.120 --> 3:37:52.000 the other activists, you know, you don't want to leave 3:37:52.040 --> 3:37:57.879 the unarmed activists exposed to um police violence. UM. But 3:37:57.959 --> 3:38:00.240 either way, you know, we we formed up. It was 3:38:00.280 --> 3:38:06.400 maybe two unarmed activists for every armed activist, and we 3:38:06.480 --> 3:38:09.320 discussed what to do. Some people decided to block off 3:38:09.360 --> 3:38:14.920 the streets with their vehicles. UM. The cops were there 3:38:15.000 --> 3:38:20.640 for a solid hour and a half before almost Solution 3:38:20.879 --> 3:38:25.480 or the Office of Homeless Solutions and Code Compliance started arriving. 3:38:26.440 --> 3:38:29.840 So by that time, UM, a good number of armed 3:38:29.840 --> 3:38:35.480 activists were there and the cops had been discussing amongst themselves, UM, 3:38:35.520 --> 3:38:37.840 you know, whatever it is that they were talking about. 3:38:38.000 --> 3:38:42.600 But when oh HS and Code got there, they talked 3:38:42.640 --> 3:38:45.879 with the cops for about thirty minutes and then they 3:38:45.920 --> 3:38:51.440 started leaving. During that time, the unarmed activists were packing 3:38:51.480 --> 3:38:55.600 things up, UM get you know, getting people ready to move. 3:38:55.640 --> 3:39:00.040 If those people wanted to move, UH. One thing to 3:39:00.040 --> 3:39:01.760 to kind of go back a little bit. One thing 3:39:01.920 --> 3:39:07.160 that we've learned carrying is it's very difficult to do 3:39:07.240 --> 3:39:12.680 the same things that we were doing as an armed activists. Um, 3:39:12.720 --> 3:39:15.359 you know, we we don't really want to be carrying 3:39:15.440 --> 3:39:18.720 tents and stuff while also trying to negotiate, you know, 3:39:18.840 --> 3:39:22.520 having a rifle in our arms. So uh, you know, 3:39:22.560 --> 3:39:26.480 there's kind of a division of labor there. But you know, 3:39:26.560 --> 3:39:30.120 before two hours had even passed, basically the sweep was 3:39:30.160 --> 3:39:33.360 called off. The city and the cops left and the 3:39:33.480 --> 3:39:35.760 mutual aid work continued Throughout the rest of the day. 3:39:36.720 --> 3:39:40.000 H Elm Fork had some members switching out. You know, 3:39:40.280 --> 3:39:42.600 some people had to go to work. Some people arrived 3:39:43.160 --> 3:39:46.000 around noon that was kind of the main switch out point, 3:39:46.600 --> 3:39:50.200 and uh, you know, a lesser number of people but 3:39:50.320 --> 3:39:53.840 still a significant amount stayed there until four or five 3:39:53.879 --> 3:39:57.720 pm whenever four comes with guns. The main thing that 3:39:57.840 --> 3:40:01.000 I like to have them do is surveillance and be 3:40:01.120 --> 3:40:04.520 watching so that way we can focus on, um, having 3:40:04.560 --> 3:40:07.640 other volunteers actually help people, you know, and like have 3:40:07.760 --> 3:40:11.160 them help them move and stuff. And the surveillance definitely 3:40:11.240 --> 3:40:14.000 helps because what happens when the cops leave and when 3:40:14.000 --> 3:40:16.240 the city leaves is that they'll still have people like 3:40:16.320 --> 3:40:20.200 watching um and driving around and trying to surveil us UM, 3:40:20.400 --> 3:40:23.600 and so having more eyes on that situation and having 3:40:23.640 --> 3:40:28.240 them know like, yeah, we're still here is really helpful. Great, Um, 3:40:28.240 --> 3:40:32.320 Thank you. Did anybody else have additional questions to ask? James? 3:40:32.320 --> 3:40:35.120 You had one or two more things? Yeah, I'm like, 3:40:35.400 --> 3:40:37.879 I'm interested in and maybe asking bubble this because I'm 3:40:37.879 --> 3:40:39.720 just looking at the pictures on the on the Dallas 3:40:39.760 --> 3:40:43.240 Morning News story And incredibly they didn't lead with a 3:40:43.280 --> 3:40:46.400 picture of you all sort of suited and booted in 3:40:46.440 --> 3:40:49.640 full battle rattle, which I think is good on that part, um, 3:40:50.280 --> 3:40:54.920 But how do you present an event like this? Right? Like, 3:40:56.080 --> 3:40:58.000 obviously I think we should probably mention that, Like I'm 3:40:58.040 --> 3:41:00.200 guessing it's legal to open carry where you are, Uh, 3:41:00.879 --> 3:41:04.120 so you're not like immediately criming and therefore provoking a 3:41:04.120 --> 3:41:09.240 superfining confrontation with the police. Um, although obviously the police 3:41:09.240 --> 3:41:12.280 are always turning up armed um and that always brings 3:41:12.320 --> 3:41:15.920 violence into the equation. But are you like masque? Do 3:41:16.040 --> 3:41:21.440 you full like this person I'm seeing is like masked, helmet, goggles, 3:41:21.440 --> 3:41:25.680 plate carrier? Is that generally how you present or is 3:41:25.680 --> 3:41:29.560 that just left up to individuals I wonder, Um, we 3:41:29.640 --> 3:41:33.879 try to be pretty uniform, but it definitely varies by action. 3:41:34.640 --> 3:41:38.280 I think the last time we came out armed, um, 3:41:38.360 --> 3:41:44.800 we were not in helmets and plate carriers. Um, but 3:41:45.760 --> 3:41:49.879 you know everyone has one now and uh, we discussed 3:41:49.879 --> 3:41:53.320 it beforehand. We decided to go that way. Um. We 3:41:53.400 --> 3:41:58.080 try not to arc directly where we're going to get seen, 3:41:58.520 --> 3:42:01.920 you know, if all possible, Um, because we do need 3:42:01.959 --> 3:42:05.400 to get out Europe, you know, walk over in all 3:42:05.440 --> 3:42:11.600 our stuff. Um. But yeah, I think you know, for 3:42:11.640 --> 3:42:14.000 a lot of actions now, including security, that's kind of 3:42:14.000 --> 3:42:18.480 been our uh go to way of presenting. The full 3:42:18.520 --> 3:42:22.160 masks are very important. We've moved from like you know, 3:42:22.200 --> 3:42:26.240 medical style masks too, all the clava style masks, just 3:42:26.320 --> 3:42:32.000 to get more skin coverage, protect our identities better. Yeah, 3:42:32.000 --> 3:42:35.000 it makes sense. And one other thing I just wanted 3:42:35.040 --> 3:42:38.200 to ask and perhaps like explaining in a context it 3:42:38.280 --> 3:42:40.520 might might not be read of in Texas. I don't know. Um, 3:42:41.120 --> 3:42:43.200 in California, at least you need two proofs of address 3:42:43.240 --> 3:42:46.600 to a firearm, right um. Uh, and if you're inhoused 3:42:46.640 --> 3:42:50.440 you might not have those, and therefore people alienated from 3:42:50.440 --> 3:42:53.360 what it's theoretically they're right. Um, whether you want to 3:42:53.360 --> 3:42:55.560 see that as a universe or right or constitutional right, 3:42:57.000 --> 3:42:59.480 is that the case there or at these people? But 3:42:59.560 --> 3:43:04.560 if they to Texas, Texas, you don't. You don't have 3:43:04.680 --> 3:43:06.800 to file a four four seven three to buy a 3:43:06.800 --> 3:43:09.720 gun in the state of Texas. My gun literally was 3:43:09.760 --> 3:43:11.680 just given to me by somebody. I didn't have to 3:43:11.720 --> 3:43:15.080 do a DAL transfer or nothing. Like. Guns are so 3:43:15.120 --> 3:43:18.240 easy to get in Texas, it's actually really scary. Yeah, 3:43:18.800 --> 3:43:21.440 private sale, you can basically do whatever you want. Yeah, 3:43:21.959 --> 3:43:24.240 it is hard not to wind up owning a gun 3:43:24.280 --> 3:43:30.920 in the States. Easier than owning a place to stay. Definitely, 3:43:30.920 --> 3:43:37.840 way easier. Yeah, what a country method in the house? Okay, magnificent. Okay, 3:43:37.840 --> 3:43:41.920 well yeah, not the case in other states. I guess 3:43:41.920 --> 3:43:44.560 to know. And and nothing that we've said here should 3:43:44.560 --> 3:43:48.520 be taken as legal advice, are e, how to protest 3:43:48.640 --> 3:43:51.760 or partake an armed activism, because that can vary. That 3:43:51.879 --> 3:43:55.040 varies wildly based on your zip code. And everything we've 3:43:55.040 --> 3:43:57.920 talked about today is a massive series of felonies and 3:43:58.000 --> 3:43:59.720 a number of other parts of the United States, like, 3:43:59.720 --> 3:44:02.359 you're not You're not going to be providing sweep defense 3:44:02.400 --> 3:44:06.280 in New York City in this manner. You know, you 3:44:06.320 --> 3:44:11.640 do this where I live in show up into consideration. Yeah, 3:44:11.760 --> 3:44:13.800 so take obviously, I mean that's a big part of 3:44:13.840 --> 3:44:16.000 what you're saying. Those you have to take the situation 3:44:16.000 --> 3:44:18.120 on the ground. You have to take the situation with 3:44:18.160 --> 3:44:22.200 these people's individuals into You can't just you can't just 3:44:22.240 --> 3:44:24.320 go in and impose like this is how we're going 3:44:24.360 --> 3:44:26.760 to do sweep defense. You have to go in there 3:44:26.800 --> 3:44:30.600 like being willing to learn and adapt because, um, this 3:44:30.680 --> 3:44:33.160 is not you know, your day to day life, and 3:44:33.240 --> 3:44:35.720 it is life for folks there, and you have to 3:44:35.720 --> 3:44:38.200 come in willing to learn and understand what they need 3:44:38.320 --> 3:44:41.879 rather than like what you think they need. Yeah, the 3:44:42.600 --> 3:44:44.400 we never know what the city is going to show 3:44:44.520 --> 3:44:48.879 up with each time. Like the Monday sweep before this 3:44:48.920 --> 3:44:53.280 past one, it was all marshals. It wasn't even act 3:44:53.320 --> 3:44:57.320 like regular dp D. It was all marshals. They were 3:44:57.320 --> 3:45:00.720 ready to arrest. They had bulldozers and cranes and all 3:45:00.720 --> 3:45:06.680 types of ship. Um. And that was also that was 3:45:06.760 --> 3:45:08.880 kind of often because I was like, wow, y'all are 3:45:08.920 --> 3:45:10.920 being mad aggressive this time. I think we just pissed 3:45:10.920 --> 3:45:12.840 them off too much to the point where they were like, 3:45:14.120 --> 3:45:17.720 we have to be you know, meaner about it. Um. 3:45:19.840 --> 3:45:21.960 I mean, but we ain't been arrested yet, So yeah, 3:45:22.440 --> 3:45:25.680 fingers crossed. I do want to win. I do want 3:45:25.680 --> 3:45:27.600 to mention one more thing. I know we've talked about 3:45:28.040 --> 3:45:31.600 how this kind of pertains to Dallas, and you know, 3:45:31.720 --> 3:45:36.200 had the similar you know situations on increasing sweeps across 3:45:36.240 --> 3:45:39.959 the country in Portland. I think last month there was 3:45:40.040 --> 3:45:43.320 an episode on this show about a homeless encampment in 3:45:43.400 --> 3:45:46.600 Ohio and in terms of like similar stuff that has 3:45:46.640 --> 3:45:49.240 happened to kind of demonstrate this is like, you know, 3:45:49.280 --> 3:45:52.160 this is the thing going on all across the country. UH. 3:45:52.200 --> 3:45:55.960 There was a really interesting situation in Boise, Idaho earlier 3:45:56.000 --> 3:45:58.400 this year that we may want to cover more in 3:45:58.440 --> 3:46:01.880 depth in the future. But in January, when it was 3:46:02.240 --> 3:46:07.600 freezing outside, protesters and UH and homeless people launched an 3:46:07.680 --> 3:46:11.080 encampment in front of the Boise State Capital UH to 3:46:11.320 --> 3:46:13.360 kind of both provide you know, some type of shelter 3:46:13.440 --> 3:46:16.080 and community to help keep each other warm, but also 3:46:16.200 --> 3:46:18.680 in front of the capitol as like a protest to 3:46:18.879 --> 3:46:22.640 demand access to shelter. Um. You know, and when while 3:46:22.680 --> 3:46:25.000 in the middle of like a pretty bad housing crisis 3:46:25.040 --> 3:46:28.880 and as it's freezing outside. UH. People at the camp 3:46:28.920 --> 3:46:32.240 faced a lot of basically NonStop harassment from the state, 3:46:32.560 --> 3:46:36.720 whether that's police or like state state police. UH. They 3:46:36.760 --> 3:46:41.080 also faced a lot of UH problems from far right 3:46:41.240 --> 3:46:46.920 militia groups. The Idaho Liberty Dogs showed up to harass people. 3:46:46.959 --> 3:46:49.600 There was you know, militia showing up with guns. UM. 3:46:49.640 --> 3:46:53.520 So you can see like another instance where something that 3:46:53.560 --> 3:46:56.000 you know arm where another instance where armed community defense 3:46:56.040 --> 3:46:59.720 could be UH could be a part in trying to 3:46:59.840 --> 3:47:05.199 key of situations like that from not escalating if done properly. Obviously, 3:47:05.200 --> 3:47:08.000 if done improperly, that can escalate situations. It was up 3:47:08.040 --> 3:47:09.800 to you know, you have to make sure that you're 3:47:09.840 --> 3:47:12.280 with people who are you, who you know, who you trust, 3:47:12.280 --> 3:47:14.880 and who are responsible. But it's just it's it's another 3:47:14.920 --> 3:47:18.880 instance of stuff like this happening. UH. Anti fascists and 3:47:18.920 --> 3:47:22.040 other activists were able to push were able to keep 3:47:22.800 --> 3:47:26.320 conflicts from these militia groups to be relatively low at 3:47:26.440 --> 3:47:30.560 at the at the encampment and after a few months 3:47:30.560 --> 3:47:34.200 and like courts were trying to shut the protest. That 3:47:34.400 --> 3:47:39.160 was unsuccessful because of certain laws around camping on on 3:47:39.320 --> 3:47:43.960 like Capital grounds for protests. But after a few months 3:47:43.959 --> 3:47:46.560 the protest was able to end and the city is 3:47:46.760 --> 3:47:51.120 now been pushed by the protest to open up possibly 3:47:51.280 --> 3:47:55.080 hundreds of units of shelter in the near future. So 3:47:55.120 --> 3:47:58.560 you see other instances of of these types of protests 3:47:58.640 --> 3:48:00.800 that you know, rely on, a lot of like radical 3:48:00.879 --> 3:48:03.600 mutual aid, a lot of resistance to the state violence, 3:48:03.600 --> 3:48:04.960 a lot of a lot of resistance to far right 3:48:05.040 --> 3:48:09.959 violence actually being some like successful. Um, so there's a 3:48:09.959 --> 3:48:13.800 lot of places to learn from in this type of 3:48:13.800 --> 3:48:17.520 thing around homeless encampments and encountering state violence. Would recommend, uh, 3:48:18.240 --> 3:48:20.120 It's going down, has a lot of good coverage of 3:48:20.440 --> 3:48:23.480 the Boys the Idaho thing. So yeah, that's just like 3:48:23.560 --> 3:48:26.280 a whole whole other angle to this, to this sort 3:48:26.320 --> 3:48:31.039 of trend that we've been seeing the past year. I 3:48:31.080 --> 3:48:35.400 would like to say that you are not for the 3:48:35.400 --> 3:48:39.000 al Castro. You know, you are not the revolutionary leader. 3:48:39.040 --> 3:48:40.959 You are not the one you know like, and you 3:48:41.040 --> 3:48:43.039 need to keep that in mind when you're moving in 3:48:43.080 --> 3:48:46.800 these spaces and doing this type of work. Is if 3:48:46.879 --> 3:48:49.600 your goal is to try and be like the guy 3:48:49.959 --> 3:48:53.760 you know, uh that does way more harm than good, 3:48:53.920 --> 3:48:56.880 and that's really important to keep in mind, UM and 3:48:56.920 --> 3:49:00.199 dismantling your save your complex as part of that. Um. 3:49:01.240 --> 3:49:02.960 Of course, in that case, you know, the house is 3:49:03.040 --> 3:49:07.320 people uh residents, were you know, consenting to it and 3:49:07.360 --> 3:49:11.160 things like that. But please do take into account the 3:49:11.160 --> 3:49:14.280 amount of danger that you're putting very the most vulnerable 3:49:14.320 --> 3:49:21.720 populations into. Um. It is not necessarily a good idea, 3:49:22.000 --> 3:49:28.800 we're morally okay, idea to uh make houseless people into 3:49:28.840 --> 3:49:32.520 your people's army, you know that is not And I 3:49:32.560 --> 3:49:35.480 want to make sure that everybody you know listening is 3:49:35.520 --> 3:49:38.440 also well aware of like, that is the wrong way 3:49:38.480 --> 3:49:41.280 to go about this. The people's army should be people 3:49:41.440 --> 3:49:44.600 like us, not the most vulnerable of us, because they 3:49:44.640 --> 3:49:48.720 are already fighting very hard. So that means that's like 3:49:48.800 --> 3:49:50.640 it's the same thing like saying white people should be 3:49:50.640 --> 3:49:53.920 at the front lines protecting black and brown people during protests. 3:49:53.920 --> 3:49:57.560 It's the same exact concept. You protect the most vulnerable 3:49:57.640 --> 3:50:01.960 of the group. You do not make them, um, you know, 3:50:02.120 --> 3:50:04.440 your army and try to convert them into something and 3:50:04.480 --> 3:50:07.440 be the leader of that either. Um, that is that 3:50:07.640 --> 3:50:10.200 is not the way to go about that. Yeah, if 3:50:10.240 --> 3:50:13.520 you're if you're if you're entering into this relationship with 3:50:13.560 --> 3:50:15.320 the plan that like, this is a way for us 3:50:15.400 --> 3:50:18.720 to build power for whatever end, as opposed to we're 3:50:18.760 --> 3:50:22.480 here to help these people. Um, then you're you're putting 3:50:22.520 --> 3:50:25.480 them second to whatever your political goals are, which is 3:50:26.200 --> 3:50:30.280 bad broadly speaking. I mean, and I know I know 3:50:30.440 --> 3:50:33.400 at least in the case of the IDA of of 3:50:33.600 --> 3:50:38.720 in the Ohio encampment that we talked about earlier this month, um, 3:50:38.760 --> 3:50:41.080 and the IDA who want as well a large number 3:50:41.080 --> 3:50:44.040 of people who are like leading up that project and 3:50:44.120 --> 3:50:47.160 in prominent ortization rules where houses people who are living 3:50:47.160 --> 3:50:49.360 at those camps, Like, it is very important to have 3:50:50.400 --> 3:50:53.160 people who are like you don't want to go in 3:50:53.200 --> 3:50:55.360 as someone with stable housing and be like, Okay, I'm 3:50:55.360 --> 3:50:57.320 in charge of this thing now. No, it's like the 3:50:57.360 --> 3:50:59.840 people that are actually experiencing it need to be the 3:51:00.320 --> 3:51:04.600 like a critical role in actually how it functions. Yeah, 3:51:04.640 --> 3:51:08.320 and there we've had not we but like there was 3:51:08.400 --> 3:51:10.840 somebody who tried to do that, um, and it definitely 3:51:10.840 --> 3:51:15.880 did more harm than good. Um, putting your political goals 3:51:16.000 --> 3:51:20.560 over just the people is always going to fail every 3:51:20.600 --> 3:51:25.040 single time. Yeah, listen to the people. If they're not 3:51:25.200 --> 3:51:29.040 leading it, don't do it. You know, like at that 3:51:29.120 --> 3:51:32.320 point your only priority should be getting them what they 3:51:32.320 --> 3:51:36.680 need and defending them if necessary. Trying to lead stuff 3:51:36.720 --> 3:51:41.160 and you know, have them putting them into more vulnerable 3:51:41.360 --> 3:51:44.320 situations than they're already at without like fully being transparent 3:51:44.360 --> 3:51:48.840 with people or being transparent with all the risks involved. 3:51:49.120 --> 3:51:56.760 You know, like it's that's real, grimy, real, not okay behavior. Um, 3:51:56.760 --> 3:51:58.840 So that's just something I also want to caution people against. 3:51:58.880 --> 3:52:02.880 And all of that definitely roots back to dismantling your 3:52:02.880 --> 3:52:08.840 savior complex. And there's um a lot of good um 3:52:09.040 --> 3:52:14.480 resources out there, um for starting with that process if 3:52:14.600 --> 3:52:18.040 you have not already, some of them wrong with your 3:52:18.080 --> 3:52:23.040 chest Instagram Also you get out and follow us or something? 3:52:23.040 --> 3:52:25.080 I don't know, Yeah, yeah, do you wanna I think, 3:52:25.120 --> 3:52:28.320 I mean, I'm I'm I'm at the out of questions personally, 3:52:28.320 --> 3:52:31.560 do we want to um uh end with kind of Yeah, 3:52:31.560 --> 3:52:34.000 how folks can follow you and stay in touch with 3:52:34.040 --> 3:52:39.080 what y'all are doing or potentially even support you. Yeah, 3:52:39.560 --> 3:52:44.440 we are at say it with your chest dt X 3:52:44.600 --> 3:52:49.920 on Instagram. UM. I also organized with the Dallas Seberation Movement, 3:52:49.920 --> 3:52:53.680 which is a bigger or that mobilizes across the nine 3:52:53.680 --> 3:52:57.040 thousand square miles of d FW. UM. I run that 3:52:57.160 --> 3:53:02.400 with three of my good friends and organizers. Uh. And 3:53:02.480 --> 3:53:04.720 so you can follow us at Dallas Liberation m b 3:53:04.920 --> 3:53:09.640 MPT on Instagram. UM. Oh, if you're willing, able and 3:53:09.720 --> 3:53:14.840 financially stable, throw us some cash please and listen to 3:53:14.920 --> 3:53:17.280 black women. Listen to black and indigenous women. That's all 3:53:17.320 --> 3:53:20.600 I got, all right, um, bubble, did you have anything 3:53:20.640 --> 3:53:25.680 to add? I think it's important to have diverse collection 3:53:25.720 --> 3:53:29.280 of groups. UM. You know, Danny's a hero, she's out 3:53:29.280 --> 3:53:34.480 there almost every day. UM. For ELM Fork, we do 3:53:34.560 --> 3:53:36.920 a lot of trainings, we do a lot of classes, 3:53:37.600 --> 3:53:40.280 UM that take up our resources, but we have these 3:53:40.320 --> 3:53:45.040 longstanding relationships so that we can support each other UM 3:53:45.120 --> 3:53:49.120 when need be. UM. You know, take care of your 3:53:49.240 --> 3:53:51.320 take care of your spaces, take care of your communities. 3:53:51.360 --> 3:53:55.000 Like Danny said, UM, focus on the people in those 3:53:55.000 --> 3:54:01.920 spacesther that be UH and housed people or your own organizers, activists. 3:54:03.040 --> 3:54:05.960 You know, you gotta keep you gotta keep things safe. 3:54:06.120 --> 3:54:09.160 It's hot out here. There's been a lot of stress 3:54:09.200 --> 3:54:14.080 and conflicts, and you always have to practice UM restorative 3:54:14.120 --> 3:54:19.400 justice and accountability. UM. And you know just keep fighting, 3:54:19.520 --> 3:54:24.600 keep keep loving each other. All right, Well that's gonna 3:54:24.600 --> 3:54:29.200 do it for everybody here at It could happen here today. 3:54:29.280 --> 3:54:36.200 Uh yeah, go go go do something good. Hey, We'll 3:54:36.200 --> 3:54:39.320 be back Monday with more episodes every week from now 3:54:39.360 --> 3:54:42.000 and totally heat death of the Universe. It could Happen 3:54:42.040 --> 3:54:44.360 Here is a production of cool Zone Media. For more 3:54:44.400 --> 3:54:47.200 podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website cool zone 3:54:47.200 --> 3:54:49.080 media dot com, or check us out on the I 3:54:49.160 --> 3:54:52.440 Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. 3:54:52.840 --> 3:54:54.960 You can find sources for It could Happen Here, updated 3:54:55.000 --> 3:54:58.480 monthly at cool zone Media dot com slash sources. Thanks 3:54:58.520 --> 3:54:59.040 for listening.