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Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, Robert Evans here, and I wanted to let

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Speaker 1: you know this is a compiletion episode. So every episode

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Speaker 1: of the week that just happened is here in one

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Speaker 1: convenient and with somewhat less ads package for you to

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Speaker 1: listen to in a long stretch if you want. If

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Speaker 1: you've been listening to the episodes every day this week,

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Speaker 1: there's gonna be nothing new here for you, but you

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Speaker 1: can make your own decisions. All right, Hello, this is

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Speaker 1: it could happen here? Oh boy? Yeah, we've can't rob

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Speaker 1: it into being here for Civil War week no less.

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Speaker 1: We're also joined by special guest Margaret Killjoy. Uh and

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Speaker 1: so if you can get who are less special? Now

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Speaker 1: we're whole week. Yeah, we're here to start a civil war. Right,

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Speaker 1: that's what I've read and read it started civil war sophy.

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Speaker 1: We cleared that. We cleared that with corporate righte I

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Speaker 1: hear officially backing the start of a civil war essentially

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Speaker 1: corporated you know, go, go go ahead, cool Zone Media,

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Speaker 1: start a civil war, start a civil war? Do we

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Speaker 1: be civilly and criminally liable for all violence that occurred?

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Speaker 1: See I Heart Radio guarantee. Yeah, and we've been listed

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Speaker 1: the people on this call who are Margaret Kildrey, Devans,

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Speaker 1: Garrison Davis, James Stout and myself, Sophie. They are also

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Speaker 1: all civil and criminally liable. But do we get to

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Speaker 1: collectivize a huge maybe, like or so of all the

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Speaker 1: industry obviously, I mean some of us do. Okay, Okay,

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Speaker 1: what it's like any civil war. You're going to find

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Speaker 1: out who later. Okay, we're going to find out who today.

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Speaker 1: Robert this is my death guy into how to beat

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Speaker 1: a coup, start a civil war. And when the first

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Speaker 1: part of it good, well, that's the only part of

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Speaker 1: it you really need to win, Yeah it is. You

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Speaker 1: don't want to get too bucked down in the latest

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Speaker 1: staff because it's just depressing. So we we just want

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Speaker 1: to focus on how to win the first forty eight

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Speaker 1: hours and from there you can take it. Take a week,

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Speaker 1: take the weekend off, yeah, break off, chill out, yeah fine,

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Speaker 1: or just go down as a hero and let everyone

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Speaker 1: else sort everything else out afterwards. And that's probably the

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Speaker 1: best option. That's going to learn about a guy who

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Speaker 1: dies within twenty four hours at the war starting as

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Speaker 1: a hero and gets a gun named after him, which

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Speaker 1: is all we can really want for ourselves. Ah, that

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Speaker 1: does sound like the dream. Yeah, that's that's a that's

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Speaker 1: the way Robert Evans needs to go. Not suggesting that

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Speaker 1: anytime soon, of course. All right, I'm sure to imagine.

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Speaker 1: Would it be the Robert or would it be there? Yeah, Robert,

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Speaker 1: just give him a good old bobbin. It would be

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Speaker 1: named after my nixt name, my nickname, the Jesus Christ

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Speaker 1: of podcasting, right, Sophie, Now, yeah, no, Sophia says yes.

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Speaker 1: If there's not already a gun named after Jesus, I

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Speaker 1: will be shocked. Yeah, it's probably not a kind of

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Speaker 1: company you want to. We've we've really gotten off, and

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Speaker 1: I think, in all fairness, it's not my fault. I

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Speaker 1: think it's Garrison's fault. Yeah, that's why I was going

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Speaker 1: to blame. I think we've all agreed on that. What

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Speaker 1: are we talking about, Jim talking about the Spanish Civil War? Today?

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Speaker 1: Will be be desegrating the name of Jesus Christ. A

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Speaker 1: little bit later as well. So desigrating the name of

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Speaker 1: Jesus Christ, i'd gathered. Yeah, we'll do. That's just some

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Speaker 1: more for you today. I'll send you some pictures afterwards

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Speaker 1: that you will enjoy. All Right, So we're talking about

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Speaker 1: the Spanish Civil War. We're not talking about all of

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Speaker 1: it because that's a lot, and because I think it's

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Speaker 1: important when we talk about the Spanish Civil War to

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Speaker 1: talk about like the moments when revolutionary things happened, because

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Speaker 1: they are as important as the moments when terrible things

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Speaker 1: happened and the moments when the people in arms defeated

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Speaker 1: the coupe, because that's both instructive and inspiring and interesting

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Speaker 1: way to have a question. Yeah, what's the spanning a

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Speaker 1: civil war? That's a great question and one I've failed

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Speaker 1: to address thus far. It is a war that happened

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Speaker 1: in Spain. It wasn't very civil, so only two out

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Speaker 1: of three remarkably uncivil. Actually, so we're looking at nineteen

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Speaker 1: thirty six today, we're looking at July nine and twentieth

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Speaker 1: ninety six, right, But you can see it as like

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Speaker 1: the precursor to the Second World War. You have people

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Speaker 1: who are fascist or fascist a jacent you have people

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Speaker 1: who are explicitly anti fascist, and they are killing each

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Speaker 1: other from nineteen thirty nine, and the anti fascists win, right,

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Speaker 1: not entirely unfortunately, Yeah, that they have some wins along

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Speaker 1: the way, you know, Okay, Yeah, there's some moments, the

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Speaker 1: friends that you meet along the way. Yeah, what is

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Speaker 1: civil war if not the friends that you make along

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Speaker 1: the way? Don't answer that because it's sad. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: these these are some friendly times. These are some good times.

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Speaker 1: These are the first forty year hours of the Spanish

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Speaker 1: Civil War. We're going to start with an anecdote about

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Speaker 1: the pure Olympics, which you probably have never heard of

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Speaker 1: unless you're me, because it's a it's a thing that

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Speaker 1: I've written about ship Ton, but not many folks have

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Speaker 1: read about. It's the antifer Olympics. It's the best way

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Speaker 1: to understand the pot to Olympics. It was a gathering

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Speaker 1: held in nineteen thirty six in Barcelona and opposition to

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Speaker 1: the Berlin Olympics. So the Olympics are given to Weimar

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Speaker 1: Germany in one right, they're not given to Nazi Germany.

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Speaker 1: But when Germany, yeah it's Germany is the pre Nazi

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Speaker 1: it's before Hitler takes power. Yeah, when they were actually

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Speaker 1: pretty cool in some way, it's pretty pretty progressive for

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Speaker 1: the time period, right. In lots of ways, it's the

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Speaker 1: woke Germans. Yes, it's the work Germans. It's it's like

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Speaker 1: if if if AOC was running nineteen thirties Germany, that's

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Speaker 1: what you get. I bet they had a whole institute

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Speaker 1: that trans people got to hang out at and learn

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Speaker 1: about themselves. I've heard that, Yet what happened to the

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Speaker 1: institute I can't remember. The Nazis game and killed the

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Speaker 1: first woman to medically transition in the Western Hemisphere and

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Speaker 1: burned all of the books and then stole the records

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Speaker 1: that the people have been keeping about all the gay people,

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Speaker 1: and then rounded up all the gay people and murdered

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Speaker 1: them in camps. That's that's what happened. Well, that's disappointing. Well,

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Speaker 1: good thing. That'll good thing. That will never happen again. Anyway,

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Speaker 1: we've learned our lesson. Yeah, there's absolutely no echoes of

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Speaker 1: that in current political discourse. So that's fine. Hey, let's

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Speaker 1: learn how to kill fascists. Yeah, buck them. Okay, So

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Speaker 1: we're talking about the popul Olympics, the anti for Olympics.

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Speaker 1: The Olympics that happened because the Nazis are ship and

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Speaker 1: you shouldn't play games with ship people. Uh, to include

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Speaker 1: the Olympics, even if you very much want to win

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Speaker 1: a medal. Uh. Take note, athletes doing sports and dictatorships,

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Speaker 1: and so a lot of people, about twenty people instead

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Speaker 1: decided to go to Barcelona where they're going to host

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Speaker 1: this alternative games. Uh. And the seb text of the

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Speaker 1: popular Olympics. It's not just that like shouldn't have the Olympics,

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Speaker 1: it's that gasp shouldn't exist, and the anti fascism is

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Speaker 1: strong and youthful and perfectly capable of fighting a war

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Speaker 1: and killing the fascists. Right. That that's sport. George or

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Speaker 1: Will called sport war without the shooting. Right, Uh, this

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Speaker 1: is a war with the shooting. It's a good quote.

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Speaker 1: George Orwell pops up a few times in this one.

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Speaker 1: Not always right. Bad everything that he was right about that, Um,

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Speaker 1: we passed up at the wrong time. It's never mind

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Speaker 1: trying to make a George or Will gets shot shot

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Speaker 1: in the throat. Now I just feel bad about it

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Speaker 1: because at least that's the least I mean, before podcasting,

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Speaker 1: the throat was the best place to get shot as

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Speaker 1: a writer. That's true, that's true. Yeah, it didn't go

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Speaker 1: well for him in the end. It sort of did

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Speaker 1: end his life prematurely, I guess but he got some

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Speaker 1: bangers out in terms of books. First, yeah, it can't him,

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Speaker 1: all right. So we're talking about the popul Olympics, talking

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Speaker 1: about the night before the Popular Olympics. You're gonna learn

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Speaker 1: why you haven't heard of the Popular Olympics. So guests

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Speaker 1: keep listening, okay. Any six years ago in Barcelona, Pau Casal,

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Speaker 1: the father of modern cello, was leading the final rehearsals

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Speaker 1: for the opening ceremony of the Popular Olympics. They had

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Speaker 1: already practiced. The Hymn of the Popular Olympics was a

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Speaker 1: song co written by a Catalan composer and an exiled

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Speaker 1: Jewish one who had fled oppression in Germany. Now they

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Speaker 1: moved to beethoven Tonight's symphony. You might know it as

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Speaker 1: you know too. Joy Kassals recounted what happened next in

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Speaker 1: his memoirs. I just called the chorus on stage to

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Speaker 1: sing the Kali. When a man rushed into the hall.

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Speaker 1: He handed me an envelope, saying, breathlessly, this is from

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Speaker 1: Minister Gasol. An uprising is expected in the city at

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Speaker 1: any moment. I read Gasol's message. It said our rehearsal

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Speaker 1: should be discontinued. Immediately or the musicians should go straight home,

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Speaker 1: and that the concert schedule for the following day had

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Speaker 1: been canceled. The messenger told me that since the message

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Speaker 1: was written, an insurrection had started in Madrid and fascist

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Speaker 1: troops were now marching on Barcelona. I read the message

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Speaker 1: aloud to the orchestra and to the chorus, and then

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Speaker 1: I said, dear friends, I do not know when we

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Speaker 1: shall meet again. As a farewell to one another, shall

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Speaker 1: we play the finale? And they shouted yes, let us

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Speaker 1: finish it. Then the orchestra played and the chorus sang

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Speaker 1: as never before. I could not see the notes because

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Speaker 1: of my tears. So that's how power Casal started civil war.

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Speaker 1: They finished that concert, incidentally, they came back to the

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Speaker 1: same place, and yeah, it was very the same people.

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Speaker 1: Uh no, not well, the same institutions. Right, these are

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Speaker 1: called or fails, like I guess, popular chorus is popular

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Speaker 1: kind of city orchestra kind of thing. So they finished

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Speaker 1: it in the same place because in the intervening eighty

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Speaker 1: eight years they was a little issue with the Franco dictatorship,

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Speaker 1: which there still is in Spain incidentally, but yeah, Barstilon

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Speaker 1: has very much reclaimed its memory is an anti Fascial city.

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Speaker 1: Following the dictatorship, I could, really, I can really see

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Speaker 1: myself in those musicians, you know, like it just feels

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Speaker 1: like a very possible thing. Unfortunately, to just be like, Okay,

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Speaker 1: well we're going to do this thing and then well,

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Speaker 1: I guess I don't know, should we finish? Like yeah, yeah, right,

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Speaker 1: like at some point maybe not. Like, Look, all of

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Speaker 1: us were doing something else when we learned that a

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Speaker 1: bunch of Chudd's had stormed Congress, right and that the

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Speaker 1: yak hatman was inside the Senate chamber. Um like like

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Speaker 1: the it and some of us gonna. I was on

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Speaker 1: a bike ride. I kept riding my bike like there's

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Speaker 1: not there's not much I can do. Uh. Sometimes you

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Speaker 1: have to take the moments of joy because there might

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Speaker 1: be much joy available for the next little while. Um

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Speaker 1: So yeah, I think it's easy to see myself and

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Speaker 1: a lot of this stuff. Perhaps that's why I'm drawn

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Speaker 1: to it, uh all right. The following morning, the city

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Speaker 1: woke up before dawn to the sound of gunfire. To

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Speaker 1: most of the Catalan working classes, wasn't a surprise. The

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Speaker 1: cure had begun two days earlier in Morocco, and word

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Speaker 1: traveled quickly among the anarchists. By the time the men

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Speaker 1: of the Fourth Division and a General Fernandez Bodiel began

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Speaker 1: their march to the central Plataa Catalunia, the people of

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Speaker 1: the Popular Front were ready. The uprising had begun in

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Speaker 1: Morocco in se an all day tension, A bit building

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Speaker 1: Union radio had called a general strike, and despite the

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Speaker 1: refusal of the Republican government to acknowledge how deep of

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Speaker 1: trouble they were, in their union to render no allusion

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Speaker 1: as to the stakes. By lunchtime on the nineteen Spain

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Speaker 1: had gone through three prime ministers since breakfast, and Barcelona

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Speaker 1: had defeated a coup. So what happens to the other

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Speaker 1: prime ministers? Like okay, you be prime minister and you're like, oh, fun,

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Speaker 1: now I don't want to be prime minister. Or they're

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Speaker 1: getting killed by the fascists, or no, no, Madrid is

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Speaker 1: very it's not very safe. It's safe. They basically your

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Speaker 1: first guy. It's like, I've done funked up here. I

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Speaker 1: should have seen this one coming, given that I was

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Speaker 1: explicitly warned about it for weeks. He's like, peace, I'm out.

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Speaker 1: Second guy pops in. He's like, don't worry, guys, we

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Speaker 1: can fix this. What we need to do is call

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Speaker 1: the call the general's talk it out. It's interesting, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: give them just a just like a reason with them.

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Speaker 1: And it's interesting because what happens is in that conversation,

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Speaker 1: it's the fascist general. I think it's capable, the young know.

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Speaker 1: He calls I can't remember good d maybe maybe good head. Anyway,

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Speaker 1: it says like you have your people and I have mine.

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Speaker 1: And in that moment, what's happening is a fascist general

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Speaker 1: who is leading a coup is reminding an elected politician

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Speaker 1: that he has an obligation to serve the people who

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Speaker 1: elected him and and not just to make like unilateral

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Speaker 1: compromises with fascists. Right, So that the what a country

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Speaker 1: at a time at that moment, that second prime ministers

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Speaker 1: also doomed. Right. So then we move on to number three.

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Speaker 1: And at that point we opened up the armories to

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Speaker 1: the working class, right, which is what they should have

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Speaker 1: done earlier. In in every city where the working class

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Speaker 1: is armed, the coup is defeated. In every city where

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Speaker 1: it's not armed, the coup succeeds. And that doesn't have

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Speaker 1: any ramifications for today. So keep going no, absolutely, none, no,

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Speaker 1: and it's something that we can't learn from, so we

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Speaker 1: shouldn't we shouldn't try. Um And obviously it's not direct parallel.

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Speaker 1: There are some really interesting moments in this particular arming

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Speaker 1: of the working class. One did I to come back

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Speaker 1: to is that the there are the soldiers, right. It's

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Speaker 1: obviously the weapons are in the hands of the military,

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Speaker 1: and obviously the military has just done a coup, but

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Speaker 1: not all the military has just done a coup. So

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Speaker 1: you have some generals or colonels who are in charge

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Speaker 1: of barracks, um who or armories, and they will be like, yeah, okay,

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Speaker 1: I've got the order. That's what I'm going to do.

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Speaker 1: I think it's who's kind of bullshit, like it hasn't

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Speaker 1: succeeded yet, it might not succeed. Here are the rifles

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Speaker 1: union members. But in Madrid you have another colonel who's

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Speaker 1: a die hard cou coup guy, big big coup person,

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Speaker 1: who is in control of the bolts of the rifles. UM.

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Speaker 1: So like the rifle doesn't work without the bolt, right.

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Speaker 1: The bolt is a bit like plugs a hole and

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Speaker 1: makes a bullet go bang. I've explained that properly, right, Robert,

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Speaker 1: that's a that's a technical terminology. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's just the piece that makes the gun go bang. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So the about critical to the functing the rifle held

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Speaker 1: by another guy who turns out to be a fashion

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Speaker 1: and so he doesn't issue them the bolts. So you

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Speaker 1: have all these working class militiamen being like, how rifle

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Speaker 1: work with no bolt? Just like entering the streets anyway, right,

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Speaker 1: slapping on the bayonet. Now you have a pike. You

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Speaker 1: have other people who have never operate to the rifle before.

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Speaker 1: So like allegedly everyone's calling the Socialist Union headquarters in

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Speaker 1: Madrid being do this, do that, and they're like, I

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Speaker 1: can't hear ship. There's just hundreds of people behind me

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Speaker 1: trying to operate the bolt on a bolt action rifle,

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Speaker 1: trying to learn how to do this, and like they're

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Speaker 1: taking their newsprint from their union newspaper right and trying

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Speaker 1: to wipe the cosmoline off the rifles because they've been

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Speaker 1: in like deep storage. It's very evocative scene, like you

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Speaker 1: can smell it, you can hear it of these people

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Speaker 1: being like, well we never used these before. They've been

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Speaker 1: a deep storage for a long time. They're covered in Greece,

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Speaker 1: but fuck it, like it's now or never. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: it was. Right. So if we go back to what

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Speaker 1: happened in Barcelona, they had radios in public places, right,

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Speaker 1: it is very common whole books about how Nazis used radios,

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Speaker 1: but it's common in the thirties parts of the city.

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Speaker 1: The paving stones had barely been relayed from October fighting.

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Speaker 1: Then they were quickly pulled up again. Barricades were constructed,

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Speaker 1: old rifles and pistols, and the bombs that the anarchists

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Speaker 1: particularly love, would dragged out of the bottom of drawers.

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Speaker 1: These people fucking love throwing bombs, like the just the Yeah,

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Speaker 1: there there's a there's a lady later on in the

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Speaker 1: war called rosal Ladina Mitra like Rows of the Dynamiter

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Speaker 1: who who just like it becomes the legend right for

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Speaker 1: just throwing dynamite fascists. Yeah, Like, there's so much awesome

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Speaker 1: ship that happens that gets lost because ultimately, like Hitler

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Speaker 1: and Mussolini win the Spanish Civil War basically, right spoiler. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: So actually that night before the before the troops march

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Speaker 1: on the city, the u g T, the Socialist control

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Speaker 1: the dock union, the dock workers union, and they're like, hey,

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Speaker 1: hang on, I'm pretty sure there's a ship in the

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Speaker 1: harbor that has dynamite on it. Let's raid it. So

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Speaker 1: they raid the ship, okay, steal the dynamite and drive

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Speaker 1: through the city, distributing it to union members who spend

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Speaker 1: the entire night making bonds. I'm sure that that went

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Speaker 1: badly for several of them, but yeah, it went Badies

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Speaker 1: of fascist too, but well yeah, almost undoubtedly. Uh, Like

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Speaker 1: Robert and I have talked to some people in some

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Speaker 1: other contexts who have made homemade bonds, and I don't smoke.

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Speaker 1: It's what I will say, do not smoke if you're

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Speaker 1: in the process of making bombs or explosives whatever. That's

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Speaker 1: the same people say that you can't smoke whirer fuel

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Speaker 1: in up your car. Yeah, cowards, Yeah, you go down

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Speaker 1: like a chat. Yeah, that's my message to you. The

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Speaker 1: other thing they did was they put on like their mono,

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Speaker 1: so like a mono is like a like a onesie, right,

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Speaker 1: like an overall blue mono was kind of the militia

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Speaker 1: uniform because they weren't an army. They were just working

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Speaker 1: class people who worked at factories who are not taking

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Speaker 1: any ship from the army that day, and they put

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Speaker 1: on their little union hats, which you can see in

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Speaker 1: all the photos. They look very cool, very quaint um.

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Speaker 1: So to understand why the conflict they fought that day began,

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Speaker 1: it's probably beyond the scope of this podcast, and to

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Speaker 1: understand where did the way it did will infuriate just

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Speaker 1: about everyone listening, which is fine, but we don't have

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Speaker 1: all day. Okay. If you want to know more about

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Speaker 1: some of the people involved, kill Joy's podcast and the

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Speaker 1: Spanic Anarchist is a great place to start. What. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I thought it was wonderful to check that out. Yeah

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Speaker 1: I do. Yeah, great podcast, really great. I love it.

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Speaker 1: So if you listened to look at that, Yeah, yep,

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Speaker 1: you should like and subscribe. Is that? Is that still

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Speaker 1: the thing? Cool people who did? Yeah? I think I've

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Speaker 1: heard of that. Yeah. The host is brilliant. Yeah, she's amazing.

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Speaker 1: I'm trying to make the clever, but instead I'm probably blushing.

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Speaker 1: You deserve. Oh okay, Yeah, if you want to read

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Speaker 1: some books, I'm going to list some books at the end,

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Speaker 1: probably far too many because this is my ship, but

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Speaker 1: I've more books written about the SPA, A civil war then, um, well,

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Speaker 1: I guess war in general, but I think anarchists have

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Speaker 1: written more about the Spanish Civil War, though maybe undoubtedly

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Speaker 1: anything else combined. Yeah, the the device we are speaking

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Speaker 1: on is currently propped up on a large stack of them,

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Speaker 1: actually most of my material possessions. It's yeah, it's nice.

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Speaker 1: It's the way your life should be. It's I've written

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Speaker 1: one to uh and it's heinously expensive, but you know,

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Speaker 1: I'm happy with it. If if you struggle to obtain

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Speaker 1: it materially, please just shoot me a direct message, unless

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Speaker 1: you kind of have some kind of gross disagreement because

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Speaker 1: you're fascist or something, in which case please don't bother. Um. Okay,

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Speaker 1: I don't know how you got this far. If you

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Speaker 1: are a fascist, I guess yeah, yeah, yeah, I probably

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Speaker 1: have some no uh funk off Nazi. I guess. I

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Speaker 1: think I think fewer people hate listen. I okay, my

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Speaker 1: theory I know that we wanted to hear. My theory

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Speaker 1: about why podcasting to um is because it's harder. People

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Speaker 1: don't have the attention span to hate listen the same

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Speaker 1: way that they can like hate skim or like hate

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Speaker 1: read tweets and reply. And so I've made a lot

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Speaker 1: of different media and a lot of different ways over

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Speaker 1: the past couple of decades, and I get less hate

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Speaker 1: mail about podcasts than most other forms. Um. So that's

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Speaker 1: my theory, is that people podcast because no one wants

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Speaker 1: to sit there and like hate listen. I mean people

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Speaker 1: like hate listening to clips. That's why we all listen

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Speaker 1: to those like clip shows where they take the right

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Speaker 1: wing person and you know, show them saying something that

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Speaker 1: we all I think it's not an intelligent thing to say,

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Speaker 1: and then we laugh or whatever. But so anyway, if

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Speaker 1: you're the person who has been put on this earth

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Speaker 1: to hate listen to, it could happen here in order

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Speaker 1: to I don't know, um, make fun of it to

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Speaker 1: your audience. Um, thanks for the lessons, I guess, I

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Speaker 1: don't know. Yeah, yeah, we're getting that that sweet revenue.

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Speaker 1: I know, where does that revenue come from? It just appears.

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Speaker 1: It's like like liking, It grows on the side of

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Speaker 1: a wet building. It doesn't come from ads. Ads do

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Speaker 1: organic could grow a lot a lot like liking. They

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Speaker 1: just start showing up, um and replicating we really have

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Speaker 1: no choice. But yeah, anyway, Yeah, it's a fact of nature.

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Speaker 1: If you have that person, I will say that my

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Speaker 1: messages stop being a Nazi. That's that's me being polite.

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Speaker 1: On the night of some assault Guards members, some elite

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Speaker 1: paramilitary police force it was founded by and sometimes mostly

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Speaker 1: loyal to the Republic, went against your their officers has

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Speaker 1: sneaked rifles out to members of the c NT an

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Speaker 1: anarchist union. And that's pretty that's pretty based. It's the

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Speaker 1: one day, as you will learn, this is the one

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Speaker 1: day all cops took off from being bastards. Some of them,

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Speaker 1: it turns out, are capable of doing the right thing,

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Speaker 1: or were I should say, Yeah, of corps were handing

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Speaker 1: out rifles to anarchist the that would be not a

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Speaker 1: parallel that I can easily imagine in the modern context. Yes, yeah,

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Speaker 1: somewhat unique. Right. It doesn't mean that these people had

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Speaker 1: not spent the past decades killing each other. It does

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Speaker 1: not mean that they would not return to doing so

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Speaker 1: within less than a year. But just for a day,

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Speaker 1: everything was hunky dorry. And it's leftist Christmas. Yes, this

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Speaker 1: pretty yeah, this more or less is leftist Christmas, like

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Speaker 1: because there's even like there's gifts. They call them proletarian

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Speaker 1: shopping trips um. But what they do is requisition merchandise

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Speaker 1: from stores and uh and distributed to people who need it.

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Speaker 1: Are you just are you referring to armed rubbery? Is

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Speaker 1: that that's a different thing, that was only armed robbery.

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Speaker 1: If somebody tries to fight back shopping with a gun,

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Speaker 1: that's it. And what if there is no law, is

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Speaker 1: it really a crime? M hmmm. I don't know, no one,

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Speaker 1: No one can say I will say that they only

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Speaker 1: it seems like they only robbed the shopkeepers who were turds,

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Speaker 1: people who like lent a lot of money at a

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Speaker 1: very high interest rate, things like that in these predetorian

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Speaker 1: shopping trips, which I'm not being against what happened. I'm

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Speaker 1: just I'm stripping away some of the niceties. Yeah, if

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Speaker 1: people hadn't gathered, they weren't picking up when I was

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Speaker 1: putting down. Yes, it is going into a shop with

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Speaker 1: guns and taking things and giving them to people who

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Speaker 1: need them. Whether or not that is bad. Who can

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Speaker 1: say Robin Hood, famous villain in history. Yeah that's right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: bad bad dude. Sheriff of Nottingham, on the other hand,

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Speaker 1: would have been big into crypto. I'm sure all around

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Speaker 1: legend so when I said if there is no law,

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Speaker 1: I wasn't really joking. Like at this point Luis Compans,

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Speaker 1: who's a Catalan leader. He's a liberal leftist politician, and

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Speaker 1: earlier that evening he'd refused to open the armories. He

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Speaker 1: realizes that things are out of his control, and so

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Speaker 1: he sets off for a walk and he walks down

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Speaker 1: the Rambler. Right. If you've been to Barcelona, it's this

422
00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:30,119
Speaker 1: big old street now it's full of a kind of

423
00:24:30,119 --> 00:24:33,000
Speaker 1: restaurants to have photographs on their menus so that German

424
00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:36,320
Speaker 1: people can understand what they're going to eat um, which

425
00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:39,520
Speaker 1: is much of Barcelona and American people. But yeah, people

426
00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:42,240
Speaker 1: who don't speak Catalan or Spanish who go to Barcelona

427
00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:44,760
Speaker 1: can eat very well there for lots of money. M

428
00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:46,840
Speaker 1: if you've been on holiday, you've probably been there. I

429
00:24:46,840 --> 00:24:50,840
Speaker 1: did not eat very well in Barcelona, really. I had

430
00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:53,720
Speaker 1: almost no money and was vegan, and my Spanish there's

431
00:24:53,800 --> 00:24:56,600
Speaker 1: more in my coutoy is non existent, so I mostly

432
00:24:56,640 --> 00:25:00,800
Speaker 1: were ung out and cooked pasta. There are not a

433
00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:03,080
Speaker 1: lot of cities I've been to where it's harder to

434
00:25:03,119 --> 00:25:06,640
Speaker 1: eat vegan than Barcelona. That is, that is a challenge.

435
00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:12,639
Speaker 1: Maybe Belgrade where where the national dishes thirty pounds of

436
00:25:12,680 --> 00:25:18,280
Speaker 1: meat on a plate. Yeah, Sophia, Nos Sophia, so I

437
00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:21,879
Speaker 1: can't remember to pronounced the name of the capital of Bulgaria.

438
00:25:22,520 --> 00:25:24,800
Speaker 1: Um also a hard place to eat vegan. That was

439
00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:28,640
Speaker 1: hard for me. Yeah, that does not surprise me. Yea, yeah, yeah,

440
00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:32,400
Speaker 1: surprise me. It's a big part of the catle In cuisine.

441
00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:34,159
Speaker 1: You'll be like, oh, yeah, I'm having some lentils, and

442
00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:36,400
Speaker 1: then they'll be like, psych, there's a pig in here.

443
00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:40,760
Speaker 1: We put a whole fucking pig in this thing. We

444
00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:44,520
Speaker 1: did reverse vegan. We made lintels out of pig. I

445
00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:49,159
Speaker 1: just ate everywhere I go. You can crush in falafel.

446
00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:52,040
Speaker 1: And one of the Catalan national dissues is called kappi potta,

447
00:25:52,359 --> 00:25:57,200
Speaker 1: which means head and foot because those are the ingredients

448
00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:00,359
Speaker 1: and it's it's a bit of a pig that no

449
00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:05,439
Speaker 1: one else wanted. One of the American national dishes is

450
00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:08,080
Speaker 1: also the head and feet of the face of a pig,

451
00:26:08,119 --> 00:26:10,520
Speaker 1: but they call it a hot dog. At least the

452
00:26:10,600 --> 00:26:14,080
Speaker 1: Catalans are honest about it, that's true. But yeah, if

453
00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:16,080
Speaker 1: the it's better now to eat vegan, I'm vegan, and

454
00:26:16,119 --> 00:26:21,760
Speaker 1: I was there in have to move among the right circles.

455
00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:26,320
Speaker 1: But yeah, on the rambler it would be hard. And

456
00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:29,960
Speaker 1: so that night, companies, he's walking down the rambler. He's

457
00:26:29,960 --> 00:26:31,400
Speaker 1: got his hat across his face so no one could

458
00:26:31,400 --> 00:26:33,119
Speaker 1: see him, and he's pulled up his color kind of

459
00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:36,720
Speaker 1: like an old timey private eye, and up and down

460
00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:41,480
Speaker 1: the rambler. Anarchists and socialists are stealing cars and welding

461
00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:46,080
Speaker 1: armor plates to the front of them. Yes, yes, another

462
00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:50,239
Speaker 1: time honored anarchist tradition. Yeah. King of war is the

463
00:26:50,280 --> 00:26:54,080
Speaker 1: improvised technical And so what they do here is, well

464
00:26:54,160 --> 00:26:58,320
Speaker 1: these steel plates, right, and then they write the name

465
00:26:58,359 --> 00:27:00,280
Speaker 1: of the union on top, just so people and know

466
00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:02,919
Speaker 1: who's killing them on so they could keep track of

467
00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:06,680
Speaker 1: their stolen cars. Yeah. Yeah, that's right, Like you don't

468
00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:10,760
Speaker 1: want anyone stealing your stolen car. Yeah yeah. There comes

469
00:27:10,760 --> 00:27:13,760
Speaker 1: a point in the next couple of weeks where some

470
00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:19,240
Speaker 1: of the more ideologically committed anarchists will stop or take

471
00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:23,280
Speaker 1: down traffic signals because they feel they're an unwarranted restriction

472
00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:28,560
Speaker 1: on individual liberty. Those Twitter discourse Yeah yeah, get on

473
00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:32,760
Speaker 1: that tank you Yes, time was a flat circle. Yeah,

474
00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:35,880
Speaker 1: it's it's very funny. Um, I bet they. I bet

475
00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:38,359
Speaker 1: there were was a contingent of them that were taking

476
00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:47,879
Speaker 1: down libraries to for gate keeping knowledge. Libraries. Libraries are

477
00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:53,320
Speaker 1: pig prisons, book pigs. Yeah, yeah, they burned them, just

478
00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:55,320
Speaker 1: in a class of anarchist fashion. Or we all know

479
00:27:55,359 --> 00:27:57,719
Speaker 1: that libraries are better served under a free market system

480
00:27:57,760 --> 00:28:01,119
Speaker 1: like that. One guy tweeted, Yes, Amazon should run the

481
00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:04,640
Speaker 1: library and every book should cost you ten dollars. Yep,

482
00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:07,920
Speaker 1: that's uh, that's the only way we can grow as

483
00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:10,840
Speaker 1: a society. And if you don't like it, well something

484
00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:13,320
Speaker 1: in front of your truck. Also, if you have an

485
00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:16,679
Speaker 1: idea that's based on a book and Amazon owns the copyright,

486
00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:18,840
Speaker 1: they now own the idea. That's the only thing that's fair.

487
00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:23,600
Speaker 1: No thinking without proper copy right, Is it okay to

488
00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:27,120
Speaker 1: use words if Jeffrey Bezos already owned words? No? Does

489
00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:28,800
Speaker 1: that mean that we're going to be fighting the next

490
00:28:29,119 --> 00:28:33,359
Speaker 1: one of these situations with instead of spray painting CNT,

491
00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:36,959
Speaker 1: someone's gonna come by and spray paint Amazon Basics onto

492
00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:40,400
Speaker 1: them with a third chase. I'm doing that tonight. I

493
00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:44,680
Speaker 1: would be up armoring my trucks as soon as we're finished. Yeah,

494
00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:48,040
Speaker 1: and spray painting Amazon basics and then just going to

495
00:28:48,080 --> 00:28:51,240
Speaker 1: the beach after that and actually what they spraint painted

496
00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:53,320
Speaker 1: on the There was CNT, there was U g T,

497
00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:58,200
Speaker 1: there was FI. These are C and T Confederate, your

498
00:28:58,280 --> 00:29:01,560
Speaker 1: National de Trabajo Right Nation, nor Labor confederation. This is

499
00:29:01,560 --> 00:29:08,560
Speaker 1: an anarcho Syndicalist Union uh PHI federon Anarki barrier is

500
00:29:08,600 --> 00:29:12,440
Speaker 1: the Iberian Anarchist Federation. They're a group within the c

501
00:29:12,640 --> 00:29:18,400
Speaker 1: NT that is more committed to a hardline, illogical ideological anarchism.

502
00:29:18,760 --> 00:29:22,800
Speaker 1: The hug Tier or Socialist Union. You have other groups

503
00:29:22,840 --> 00:29:25,320
Speaker 1: to the pum is probably any other one you need

504
00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:28,800
Speaker 1: to know. They are not trotsky It's Trotskyites. Anyone who

505
00:29:28,800 --> 00:29:30,960
Speaker 1: tells you they are either doesn't know what they're talking

506
00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:34,080
Speaker 1: about or is consciously misleading you. And they were in

507
00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:36,960
Speaker 1: open beef with trotsky right like that they are. They

508
00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:41,800
Speaker 1: are writing letters to trotsky beefing about whether they should exist,

509
00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:46,680
Speaker 1: which trotsky Is is a no on that question. So yeah,

510
00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:48,680
Speaker 1: they're not trotsky As. They just get called trotsky Is

511
00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:51,240
Speaker 1: by Stylinists because everyone who they don't like is a Stylinist.

512
00:29:51,320 --> 00:29:56,560
Speaker 1: Right that they are anti Stylinist Marxists. Um, that's what

513
00:29:56,560 --> 00:30:01,320
Speaker 1: I will call them. What some folks do is they

514
00:30:01,360 --> 00:30:05,880
Speaker 1: paint you HP on top of their cars. You nidos

515
00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:11,720
Speaker 1: armanos proletarios. I think it stands for United Proletarian Siblings,

516
00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:16,400
Speaker 1: I guess. And that's important, right, because these groups had

517
00:30:16,480 --> 00:30:19,600
Speaker 1: been fighting among themselves and with each other for a

518
00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:25,080
Speaker 1: very long time and having like what appeared today to

519
00:30:25,080 --> 00:30:28,560
Speaker 1: be kind of comical beefs about inconsequential things, but they

520
00:30:28,560 --> 00:30:31,360
Speaker 1: were important and then you know, this ideological commitment is

521
00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:34,240
Speaker 1: what gets them through this period of time. But the

522
00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:38,840
Speaker 1: uh P comes from a Studius where anarchists and socialists

523
00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:42,800
Speaker 1: had come together to fight against the state rank to

524
00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:46,320
Speaker 1: fight as part of a minor strike minors particular love

525
00:30:46,360 --> 00:30:50,920
Speaker 1: for dynamite, by the way, that's how they, yeah, kings

526
00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:53,720
Speaker 1: of the dynamite throw that, that's how they dealt with

527
00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:57,120
Speaker 1: the local garrison. Really and actually the first use of

528
00:30:57,120 --> 00:31:01,440
Speaker 1: a combat helicopter was against the Popular Front, the UHP

529
00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:05,840
Speaker 1: in Asturius, and that strike was eventually put down by

530
00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:09,080
Speaker 1: one in Francisco Franco, who will learn about later. Nice guy,

531
00:31:09,440 --> 00:31:15,280
Speaker 1: No problems with him. That's a lie. Yeah, shocking, I

532
00:31:15,320 --> 00:31:17,760
Speaker 1: know it turns out to be a total turd of

533
00:31:17,760 --> 00:31:22,080
Speaker 1: a human being. But he was, wasn't he? Um, Oh no,

534
00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:24,600
Speaker 1: I'm going down a rabbit hole. Wasn't he like some

535
00:31:24,720 --> 00:31:27,360
Speaker 1: sort of vaguely? Wasn't he like a right wing syndiclaus

536
00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:30,560
Speaker 1: for a while? Yeah, he had all kinds of sort of.

537
00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:33,480
Speaker 1: I don't think Franco had any convinced political views other

538
00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:35,240
Speaker 1: than like that he wanted to be in charge. But yes,

539
00:31:35,280 --> 00:31:39,600
Speaker 1: he was a radical scendic list I said, right wing

540
00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:43,360
Speaker 1: syndiciclast but yeah, no, but so a number of officers

541
00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:45,400
Speaker 1: I don't know if Franco was with, but there were

542
00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:49,280
Speaker 1: like a group called the Party who Okay, I see,

543
00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:51,160
Speaker 1: I'm not sure if Franco was one, now that I

544
00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:52,760
Speaker 1: think about it. I try not to learn too much

545
00:31:52,760 --> 00:31:56,400
Speaker 1: about the person of Francisco Franco, because he is a turd.

546
00:31:57,680 --> 00:31:59,920
Speaker 1: He he does pivot, and he pivots when he's in power,

547
00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:03,440
Speaker 1: right from like a soon a more totalitarian project to

548
00:32:03,520 --> 00:32:09,840
Speaker 1: this national Catholic project to sort of Yeah, he's a

549
00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:13,200
Speaker 1: problematic dude with yeah, with no clear ideology of than

550
00:32:13,240 --> 00:32:14,560
Speaker 1: he should be in power, and he doesn't care who

551
00:32:14,560 --> 00:32:17,680
Speaker 1: he has to roll over to get there. Um, that's

552
00:32:17,680 --> 00:32:21,239
Speaker 1: a common political ideology, it is. Yeah, it pops up

553
00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:23,960
Speaker 1: a lot on the right, something something there with dudes

554
00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:26,880
Speaker 1: on the right that maybe we should think about. No,

555
00:32:27,040 --> 00:32:29,880
Speaker 1: it's never happened again, and never in this country of course,

556
00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:35,480
Speaker 1: fortunately saying it could never happen right where we are. Yeah,

557
00:32:35,560 --> 00:32:40,560
Speaker 1: that's not in my backyard, that's the right. Yeah, America

558
00:32:40,680 --> 00:32:52,040
Speaker 1: is different, I think as the subtitle, Okay, so sorry, no, no,

559
00:32:52,080 --> 00:32:57,320
Speaker 1: I'm just sad. Anyway, the people in Barcelona that day

560
00:32:57,400 --> 00:32:59,800
Speaker 1: were even more numerous and diverse, and the already bustling

561
00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:03,280
Speaker 1: he was used to. The nineteen July was slated to

562
00:33:03,280 --> 00:33:05,720
Speaker 1: be the start of the largest anti fascist spectacle the

563
00:33:05,720 --> 00:33:08,800
Speaker 1: world have ever seen. That's a direct quote from a

564
00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:12,960
Speaker 1: public the article about the Popular Olympics. Right, as I said,

565
00:33:13,120 --> 00:33:15,280
Speaker 1: these games aim to show the strengths of the popular

566
00:33:15,360 --> 00:33:17,840
Speaker 1: front with a series of events. Some of those event

567
00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:21,120
Speaker 1: to the ones you might expect, But some of these

568
00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:24,560
Speaker 1: events were designed to reward nations with a healthy working

569
00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:28,080
Speaker 1: class rather than nations with a few exceptional athletes. Right,

570
00:33:28,160 --> 00:33:32,080
Speaker 1: So we look at the Olympics today, having one or

571
00:33:32,120 --> 00:33:35,320
Speaker 1: two exceptional athletes, especially in certain areas, can like vault

572
00:33:35,320 --> 00:33:38,760
Speaker 1: you to the top of the medal table. Right. Medal table,

573
00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:44,320
Speaker 1: of course, invented by the Nazis to illustrate eugenics. Uh

574
00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:47,840
Speaker 1: wold really yeah yeah. Before most six there was no

575
00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:51,520
Speaker 1: Olympics table. Uh, not in the fable way that we

576
00:33:51,600 --> 00:33:53,920
Speaker 1: see it now. So much of the pageantry that we

577
00:33:53,960 --> 00:33:58,320
Speaker 1: associate with the Olympic Games was invented by Carl D.

578
00:33:58,520 --> 00:34:03,240
Speaker 1: M uh the torch relay, the parade of flags in

579
00:34:03,280 --> 00:34:08,560
Speaker 1: the opening ceremony, like, yeah, the the Olympics are fucking Nuremberg,

580
00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:12,480
Speaker 1: like with the rainbow rings. It's wild how much of

581
00:34:12,520 --> 00:34:16,839
Speaker 1: that ship is cribs straight from Nazi pageantry? Oh? Um.

582
00:34:17,320 --> 00:34:19,120
Speaker 1: The book called The Nazi Game is pretty good on

583
00:34:19,160 --> 00:34:21,040
Speaker 1: that if you want to read it. Um. Lots of

584
00:34:21,080 --> 00:34:24,400
Speaker 1: books about the thirty six Olympics, But yeah, um, I

585
00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:28,279
Speaker 1: should just acknowledge that the the International Olympic Committee did

586
00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:33,520
Speaker 1: fund a lot of my research for reasons that maybe

587
00:34:33,600 --> 00:34:37,040
Speaker 1: becoming clear, have since ceased. Also, Clay didn't think I

588
00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:41,080
Speaker 1: was very good, I guess. But anyway, institution that has

589
00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:43,560
Speaker 1: some ship to deal with that it hasn't dealt with,

590
00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:47,200
Speaker 1: I will say, um. And yet it was on its

591
00:34:47,200 --> 00:34:51,479
Speaker 1: bullshit heavily in right. Um, so one of the things

592
00:34:51,480 --> 00:34:53,640
Speaker 1: they did at the popular Olympics was they had a

593
00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:57,319
Speaker 1: ten by hundred meter relay. And it's just like, I

594
00:34:57,320 --> 00:34:59,799
Speaker 1: don't know if the Americans have school sports days. Yes,

595
00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:03,440
Speaker 1: I try to Why I I don't remember anything about

596
00:35:03,840 --> 00:35:09,120
Speaker 1: public school sporting events. Okay, at the risk of sort

597
00:35:09,120 --> 00:35:13,840
Speaker 1: of unveiling more trauma, what happens here, now, that's fine, Okay.

598
00:35:15,120 --> 00:35:17,759
Speaker 1: What happens here is that, uh, you line up right

599
00:35:17,800 --> 00:35:20,080
Speaker 1: in groups of five and you just run back and forth,

600
00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:23,680
Speaker 1: passing a bat on to each other, and much like

601
00:35:23,719 --> 00:35:25,720
Speaker 1: school sport today, with the caveat being that the people

602
00:35:25,760 --> 00:35:28,680
Speaker 1: in this event had to already be entered in other

603
00:35:28,800 --> 00:35:32,800
Speaker 1: events at the games, and so like you just get

604
00:35:33,040 --> 00:35:36,960
Speaker 1: like weightlifters, and there was a chess event at the games, right,

605
00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:39,920
Speaker 1: So you get the chess athletes and they're just hauling

606
00:35:39,960 --> 00:35:42,960
Speaker 1: as as fast as their chess playing legs can carry

607
00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:47,319
Speaker 1: them back and forth to prove the like superior health

608
00:35:47,360 --> 00:35:53,719
Speaker 1: of their nation's working class. Think chess chess leads, chess

609
00:35:53,960 --> 00:35:57,319
Speaker 1: chess leads, chess leads. Yeah, thanks, yeah, I really say

610
00:35:57,360 --> 00:36:02,239
Speaker 1: with that one. Yeah, you pulled it back out of you. M. Yeah,

611
00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:06,239
Speaker 1: they didn't have any athletes. Sadly, Yeah, they did have

612
00:36:06,239 --> 00:36:08,719
Speaker 1: people who built human castle, so it's another event. And

613
00:36:09,640 --> 00:36:12,400
Speaker 1: really wait wait wait wait a castle made out of humans?

614
00:36:12,880 --> 00:36:15,640
Speaker 1: Whoa wait, you are not familiar with cash down as

615
00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:18,600
Speaker 1: the like the the Great Catholic and tradition of building

616
00:36:18,640 --> 00:36:25,600
Speaker 1: human towers. No, no, okay, like pivot. Uh it's fucked now.

617
00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:29,400
Speaker 1: One of my friends wrote her PhD on these uh

618
00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:35,040
Speaker 1: about that they just made up? Just now listen, okay,

619
00:36:35,040 --> 00:36:37,960
Speaker 1: A you can write your history PhD about literally anything,

620
00:36:38,120 --> 00:36:40,120
Speaker 1: as long as no one else has written it before.

621
00:36:39,960 --> 00:36:46,640
Speaker 1: The scene a quan history PhD s And I wrote

622
00:36:46,640 --> 00:36:49,000
Speaker 1: my PhD about the anti for Olympics, right, I wrote

623
00:36:49,040 --> 00:36:54,799
Speaker 1: my master's about predatarian shopping trips. Uh that's cool, yeah,

624
00:36:54,960 --> 00:37:00,279
Speaker 1: I thought so um at the time, the yes, so Cashel. Right,

625
00:37:00,320 --> 00:37:02,520
Speaker 1: you get your people at the bottom, right, and they

626
00:37:02,840 --> 00:37:04,600
Speaker 1: sort of wrap a ribbon around their waist and then

627
00:37:05,040 --> 00:37:07,840
Speaker 1: they often bite the corners of their shirt. I'm aware

628
00:37:07,840 --> 00:37:10,080
Speaker 1: that I'm biting my shirt and this is mainly an

629
00:37:10,080 --> 00:37:14,480
Speaker 1: audio medium. But they'll wrap their hands over the other people, right,

630
00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:17,839
Speaker 1: men and women, non binding people. I'm sure to form

631
00:37:17,880 --> 00:37:20,280
Speaker 1: a big old circle. And then the next layer climb

632
00:37:20,440 --> 00:37:22,480
Speaker 1: up them right and stand on top of them. There's

633
00:37:22,480 --> 00:37:25,239
Speaker 1: slightly fewer people, and the people get smaller, and the

634
00:37:25,360 --> 00:37:28,279
Speaker 1: layers have fewer people in them, like concentric circles. Right

635
00:37:28,320 --> 00:37:31,160
Speaker 1: as you get higher and higher, and then a small

636
00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:34,400
Speaker 1: child wearing always a horse riding helmet for reasons that

637
00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:38,040
Speaker 1: I'm not entirely clear, ascends and this ship is high

638
00:37:38,200 --> 00:37:40,680
Speaker 1: like if you're standing on your balcony, like you are

639
00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:44,480
Speaker 1: eye to eye with this fucking toddler who climbs up

640
00:37:44,520 --> 00:37:47,520
Speaker 1: the top, get to the top like arm in the air,

641
00:37:47,600 --> 00:37:51,560
Speaker 1: and then climbs back down. And these groups people do

642
00:37:52,600 --> 00:37:56,439
Speaker 1: people do this all the time. Yeah, Look, American's national

643
00:37:56,440 --> 00:37:59,239
Speaker 1: sport is is this thing where like young young men

644
00:37:59,239 --> 00:38:01,680
Speaker 1: give each other brain damage. So, oh, I'm not anti this,

645
00:38:01,880 --> 00:38:05,879
Speaker 1: and I'm just well, I'm actually impressed by it because

646
00:38:05,880 --> 00:38:09,040
Speaker 1: we do the human pyramid thing, which is the same thing.

647
00:38:09,080 --> 00:38:12,360
Speaker 1: All they're not nearly as impressive or interesting. No, I

648
00:38:12,480 --> 00:38:16,040
Speaker 1: check out castas the cool thing about them as they

649
00:38:16,040 --> 00:38:19,960
Speaker 1: exist within communities, right, these colds, these groups of castodiers

650
00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:23,560
Speaker 1: are groups of people who do this from a neighborhood, right,

651
00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:26,160
Speaker 1: so that they'll all be from a certain town, like

652
00:38:26,360 --> 00:38:29,960
Speaker 1: the Talagona group was the one near me and my friends.

653
00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:33,359
Speaker 1: Dissertation Ida reports a name, you can probably look it up.

654
00:38:35,120 --> 00:38:37,600
Speaker 1: It was about like how this this practice has been

655
00:38:37,640 --> 00:38:44,080
Speaker 1: integrated into incorporating migrants into Catalan us, right, like Catalan

656
00:38:44,200 --> 00:38:47,480
Speaker 1: identity by being again come and come and stand on

657
00:38:47,640 --> 00:38:49,719
Speaker 1: us or be stood on by us, and you two

658
00:38:49,760 --> 00:38:53,440
Speaker 1: can be Catalan. Oh that seems like that would yeah,

659
00:38:53,480 --> 00:38:56,120
Speaker 1: that would bring a community closer together into a heap

660
00:38:56,560 --> 00:38:59,160
Speaker 1: on the ground. Yeah, and it has all kinds of

661
00:38:59,160 --> 00:39:01,600
Speaker 1: other uses, right, cat stuck up a tree, just call

662
00:39:01,680 --> 00:39:06,120
Speaker 1: those guys. Yeah, I want a rubber house. Yeah. Famously

663
00:39:06,200 --> 00:39:10,759
Speaker 1: ladders a band in Catalonia because there for cowards. Yeah yeah,

664
00:39:10,880 --> 00:39:13,759
Speaker 1: just all day casteus. But yeah, this was part of

665
00:39:13,760 --> 00:39:17,399
Speaker 1: the popular Olympics, right, human castles. I'm glad we went

666
00:39:17,440 --> 00:39:20,520
Speaker 1: there for everyone who didn't know. People googling that. It's

667
00:39:20,560 --> 00:39:24,479
Speaker 1: part of the u n like United Nations Protected Human

668
00:39:24,520 --> 00:39:28,120
Speaker 1: Patrimony or something like. It's it's it's a bit important.

669
00:39:28,560 --> 00:39:30,480
Speaker 1: So do you ever just like make up stuff to

670
00:39:30,520 --> 00:39:33,880
Speaker 1: tell Americans about and then we believe you because you

671
00:39:33,920 --> 00:39:37,600
Speaker 1: have an accent? I mean we have an accent too, sure,

672
00:39:37,680 --> 00:39:40,160
Speaker 1: but like yeah, yeah, yeah, Luckily your accents are all

673
00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:48,680
Speaker 1: neutral and vanilla. Yeah exactly, voice yeah yeah, um uh no,

674
00:39:48,960 --> 00:39:50,440
Speaker 1: I did. I think I've told this story on the

675
00:39:50,440 --> 00:39:53,680
Speaker 1: internet before, but one time I was giving a talk

676
00:39:53,719 --> 00:39:56,319
Speaker 1: about diabetes and the bronx and this I asked if

677
00:39:56,320 --> 00:39:59,160
Speaker 1: this kid wanted to ask the kids they wanted to

678
00:39:59,160 --> 00:40:01,960
Speaker 1: ask any questions, and young women itching to ask a

679
00:40:02,040 --> 00:40:05,520
Speaker 1: question just goes, do you guys really have pies with

680
00:40:05,640 --> 00:40:10,720
Speaker 1: meeting them? Like if she didn't misled her whole life,

681
00:40:11,000 --> 00:40:14,680
Speaker 1: I was able to confirm that for her, I savory

682
00:40:14,680 --> 00:40:16,440
Speaker 1: pies like fucked me up. When I was in France,

683
00:40:16,440 --> 00:40:19,160
Speaker 1: I was completely unprepared for the existence of these things.

684
00:40:19,480 --> 00:40:22,000
Speaker 1: I volunteered to cook for a bunch of um, a

685
00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:24,440
Speaker 1: bunch of activists who are busy having their meeting, and

686
00:40:24,480 --> 00:40:25,880
Speaker 1: I was like, yeah, sure, I'll come cook for you.

687
00:40:26,120 --> 00:40:27,560
Speaker 1: And I figured I would just like show up and

688
00:40:27,800 --> 00:40:31,960
Speaker 1: make pasta burritos because I'm an American. And they gave

689
00:40:32,000 --> 00:40:36,400
Speaker 1: me a lemonnu and on it was tarde legume and

690
00:40:36,440 --> 00:40:38,480
Speaker 1: I was like, I know what those words mean. That

691
00:40:38,520 --> 00:40:42,520
Speaker 1: means pie vegetables, and that isn't that doesn't exist. I

692
00:40:42,520 --> 00:40:46,359
Speaker 1: don't know what the funk you're talking about, Um, this

693
00:40:46,400 --> 00:40:48,719
Speaker 1: is not a very interesting story and now everyone's heard it.

694
00:40:49,360 --> 00:40:53,000
Speaker 1: But I learned how to make a vegetable pie on

695
00:40:53,600 --> 00:40:58,000
Speaker 1: no notice because that was what the menu insisted upon.

696
00:40:58,200 --> 00:41:01,400
Speaker 1: And yeah, I I feel for this person and the

697
00:41:01,400 --> 00:41:04,359
Speaker 1: bronx who wasn't convinced that you were telling the truth

698
00:41:04,400 --> 00:41:07,480
Speaker 1: about meat pies. Yeah. And if they're listening, I was

699
00:41:07,560 --> 00:41:11,080
Speaker 1: a promise look it up. Now they've got Google. Yeah.

700
00:41:11,120 --> 00:41:13,080
Speaker 1: The lesson we've learned there is don't cook for French people.

701
00:41:17,600 --> 00:41:19,520
Speaker 1: So at the Games, one of the cool things is

702
00:41:19,520 --> 00:41:21,799
Speaker 1: that nations competed instead of states, right, And we can

703
00:41:21,840 --> 00:41:24,360
Speaker 1: fucking go off on the difference between nations and states.

704
00:41:24,719 --> 00:41:29,239
Speaker 1: The state is the entity that has political control and

705
00:41:29,320 --> 00:41:32,360
Speaker 1: exercise of monopoly on the legitimate violence in the geographic area.

706
00:41:32,760 --> 00:41:35,439
Speaker 1: A nation is an imagined community that exists across base

707
00:41:35,480 --> 00:41:37,680
Speaker 1: of time. That's the shortest I'm going to do that,

708
00:41:37,680 --> 00:41:39,360
Speaker 1: and I'm not going to say anything that what's a

709
00:41:39,480 --> 00:41:45,160
Speaker 1: country between those country is it's a geographical area that

710
00:41:45,160 --> 00:41:49,080
Speaker 1: the state controls. But sometimes it's mapped onto nation as well, right,

711
00:41:49,120 --> 00:41:53,000
Speaker 1: like Catalonia being a good example. But for most of

712
00:41:53,040 --> 00:41:58,200
Speaker 1: the time people use it synonymously with state. So countries

713
00:41:58,200 --> 00:42:00,680
Speaker 1: aren't competing. Nations are right. The egg styled Jews of

714
00:42:00,719 --> 00:42:04,239
Speaker 1: Europe are competing, right, because if you're Jewish and it's six,

715
00:42:04,520 --> 00:42:06,919
Speaker 1: don't want to fucking like marching there with the German flag,

716
00:42:06,920 --> 00:42:13,319
Speaker 1: I would imagine doesn't feel good, negative vibes, so they

717
00:42:13,360 --> 00:42:15,640
Speaker 1: don't do that. There they are the exiled Jews, right,

718
00:42:15,719 --> 00:42:19,120
Speaker 1: and the anti fascists who are exiled from Germany in Italy.

719
00:42:19,160 --> 00:42:21,799
Speaker 1: They also come in with their own different flags, right. Um.

720
00:42:23,480 --> 00:42:26,120
Speaker 1: Initially there was some rumblings about the nub A CP

721
00:42:26,360 --> 00:42:29,760
Speaker 1: sort of competing in the end of the United States team,

722
00:42:30,040 --> 00:42:33,200
Speaker 1: which is made up of trade unionists, had black and

723
00:42:33,280 --> 00:42:37,600
Speaker 1: white folks on it. The organizers are actually so invested

724
00:42:37,760 --> 00:42:43,040
Speaker 1: in like um, the I guess including a pressed black

725
00:42:43,080 --> 00:42:46,680
Speaker 1: people from the United States within the remit of people

726
00:42:47,520 --> 00:42:52,360
Speaker 1: who sort of anti fascism wanted to advocate for that.

727
00:42:52,600 --> 00:42:54,520
Speaker 1: They threw this whole Olympics together in like three or

728
00:42:54,560 --> 00:42:57,440
Speaker 1: four months. It was shoestring budget. It's funded by the

729
00:42:57,480 --> 00:43:00,040
Speaker 1: French government, the Spanish government, the Catalan government in a

730
00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:05,120
Speaker 1: vidual donors and some trade unions from Norway. And they

731
00:43:05,200 --> 00:43:07,000
Speaker 1: took their very sparse money and we're like we will

732
00:43:07,080 --> 00:43:10,920
Speaker 1: pay your way if you if you're black people from

733
00:43:10,920 --> 00:43:12,759
Speaker 1: America want to come over here, cause we understand its

734
00:43:12,760 --> 00:43:15,520
Speaker 1: ship over there if you want to come and play

735
00:43:15,560 --> 00:43:17,919
Speaker 1: with us, and that's fine, which is cool, Like fuck

736
00:43:18,000 --> 00:43:20,040
Speaker 1: you to the fact that, because the whole Olympics is

737
00:43:20,080 --> 00:43:23,200
Speaker 1: a fuck you to to Nazi Germany, right, and so

738
00:43:23,239 --> 00:43:25,960
Speaker 1: it's cool that it also was like and fuck you

739
00:43:26,040 --> 00:43:30,200
Speaker 1: too racism in the United States also like I like that, yeah,

740
00:43:30,360 --> 00:43:32,200
Speaker 1: and like it's also worth noting, Actually, look, why are

741
00:43:32,239 --> 00:43:34,279
Speaker 1: we saying fuck you to the Nazis and that like

742
00:43:34,480 --> 00:43:37,720
Speaker 1: the people at the popular Olympics like ran faster, jumped higher,

743
00:43:37,719 --> 00:43:41,920
Speaker 1: worth stronger, like the Olympics are extremely gate kept by class.

744
00:43:42,760 --> 00:43:45,080
Speaker 1: We see that. We see that kind of crumbling like

745
00:43:45,160 --> 00:43:47,640
Speaker 1: with your with your man Jesse Owens and stuff like that. Right,

746
00:43:47,680 --> 00:43:52,400
Speaker 1: but at this point there were still workers sports and

747
00:43:52,480 --> 00:43:55,279
Speaker 1: bourgeois sports and bourgeoire sports twins the Olympics, right, Like

748
00:43:55,760 --> 00:43:57,920
Speaker 1: the Olympics still had an amateurism rule. If you got

749
00:43:57,960 --> 00:44:02,839
Speaker 1: paid for exercising, you couldn't go, so yeah, which meant

750
00:44:02,840 --> 00:44:05,040
Speaker 1: that like working class people, right, like if you don't

751
00:44:05,040 --> 00:44:07,239
Speaker 1: get paid time off, and one gets paid time off,

752
00:44:07,239 --> 00:44:10,960
Speaker 1: its six then they can't go and compete. Right, Like

753
00:44:11,040 --> 00:44:14,000
Speaker 1: if even if you work full time and I say, hey, Margaret,

754
00:44:14,040 --> 00:44:15,759
Speaker 1: I'll pay for a couple of weeks, you know, I'll

755
00:44:15,760 --> 00:44:16,800
Speaker 1: make sure I take care of your rents so you

756
00:44:16,840 --> 00:44:19,839
Speaker 1: can go and do the Olympics. Nope, if you run

757
00:44:19,840 --> 00:44:22,560
Speaker 1: a benefit race after the Olympics, they will take your

758
00:44:22,560 --> 00:44:26,359
Speaker 1: medal away. Tom Longboat who they did that too. They

759
00:44:26,360 --> 00:44:28,640
Speaker 1: do that a whole lot to people who aren't white. Shockingly.

760
00:44:29,280 --> 00:44:34,080
Speaker 1: Um so, yeah, Olympics not great. Actually, maybe we'll do

761
00:44:34,120 --> 00:44:36,640
Speaker 1: a whole left bord and what have the Olympics do

762
00:44:36,719 --> 00:44:40,160
Speaker 1: some bad ship. But yeah, these people come from America

763
00:44:40,320 --> 00:44:43,960
Speaker 1: right on the team. It's Charlie Burley. Charlie Burley goes

764
00:44:43,960 --> 00:44:46,560
Speaker 1: on to be kind of a legendary boxer, right. He's

765
00:44:46,600 --> 00:44:51,279
Speaker 1: biracial man from Pennsylvania. Uh. And Dot Tucker she's a

766
00:44:51,320 --> 00:44:55,000
Speaker 1: black woman. She ran her union in the Bronx and

767
00:44:55,040 --> 00:45:00,720
Speaker 1: she ran hardrometers as well. Yeah, fucking plan that one out. Yeah,

768
00:45:01,200 --> 00:45:04,879
Speaker 1: I love a good written into the script like planned out.

769
00:45:05,480 --> 00:45:08,120
Speaker 1: It's good. Don't It sounds sarcastic, but I actually mean

770
00:45:08,160 --> 00:45:11,640
Speaker 1: it really honestly. You can appreciate the joy that I'm

771
00:45:11,640 --> 00:45:16,359
Speaker 1: feeling right now. And so that games brings twenty thou

772
00:45:16,560 --> 00:45:20,400
Speaker 1: anti fascist to Barcelona, right and some of them are watching,

773
00:45:20,640 --> 00:45:23,160
Speaker 1: some of them are competing, some of them are staying

774
00:45:23,160 --> 00:45:26,120
Speaker 1: in hotels. The Hotel Olympic is where most of them stay,

775
00:45:26,160 --> 00:45:28,560
Speaker 1: but they ran of space, so about two weeks before

776
00:45:28,600 --> 00:45:30,680
Speaker 1: the games, they went around random houses and we're like, hey,

777
00:45:30,680 --> 00:45:32,920
Speaker 1: can you have someone to stay? So lots of the

778
00:45:32,960 --> 00:45:36,440
Speaker 1: athletes are just like crashing with people and it's kind

779
00:45:36,440 --> 00:45:38,200
Speaker 1: of cool. If you go to the archive in Barcelona,

780
00:45:38,239 --> 00:45:40,000
Speaker 1: you can see the little forms where they go up

781
00:45:40,040 --> 00:45:41,719
Speaker 1: to a house and be like, okay, this person has

782
00:45:41,760 --> 00:45:44,400
Speaker 1: two beds and they can take care of breakfast, and

783
00:45:44,520 --> 00:45:47,960
Speaker 1: that's two athletes who can stay here. They went door

784
00:45:48,000 --> 00:45:50,279
Speaker 1: to door. Yeah, it's heartbreaking seeing that ship and then

785
00:45:50,360 --> 00:45:53,000
Speaker 1: knowing what happened. Um. I was just thinking it was

786
00:45:53,040 --> 00:45:55,400
Speaker 1: like a better way to Um. Yeah, like that's what

787
00:45:55,560 --> 00:45:59,359
Speaker 1: Airbnb should be, you know, yes, yeah, I think if

788
00:45:59,360 --> 00:46:02,920
Speaker 1: the Airbnb, if we compare this to the Berlin Olympic

789
00:46:03,000 --> 00:46:05,920
Speaker 1: village where the Condor legions stayed before they headed off

790
00:46:05,920 --> 00:46:09,759
Speaker 1: to bomb people in Spain, we will see that one

791
00:46:09,760 --> 00:46:13,120
Speaker 1: side is better than the other side. And yeah, so

792
00:46:13,920 --> 00:46:17,320
Speaker 1: these people are staying all across Barcelona, right. They's trained

793
00:46:17,320 --> 00:46:20,000
Speaker 1: in the stadium the day before, they're distributed all around

794
00:46:20,000 --> 00:46:24,359
Speaker 1: the city. So in the morning of thee these are

795
00:46:24,400 --> 00:46:28,880
Speaker 1: kind of hardcore Catholic conservatives. Um, they report to the

796
00:46:28,920 --> 00:46:33,480
Speaker 1: San Intario barracks outside of Barcelona. Meanwhile, at the Pedroldes barracks,

797
00:46:33,800 --> 00:46:35,719
Speaker 1: officers get their troops up but think at four in

798
00:46:35,760 --> 00:46:39,840
Speaker 1: the morning, serve them a ration of rum for breakfast

799
00:46:40,960 --> 00:46:43,120
Speaker 1: and tell them that there's been an anarchist uprising in

800
00:46:43,160 --> 00:46:45,799
Speaker 1: the city that they have to put down, and so

801
00:46:45,840 --> 00:46:48,600
Speaker 1: they send them my right, this is a lie. Yeah,

802
00:46:48,600 --> 00:46:50,480
Speaker 1: the uprising is in fact what they are doing as

803
00:46:50,520 --> 00:46:54,000
Speaker 1: they march into the city. It's telling that they lie

804
00:46:54,600 --> 00:46:58,360
Speaker 1: because the troops are conscripts and are not really brought

805
00:46:58,360 --> 00:47:02,399
Speaker 1: into their nationalist crusade at the point. Yeah, and it's

806
00:47:02,440 --> 00:47:04,920
Speaker 1: worth always remembering there, like working class people get trapped

807
00:47:04,960 --> 00:47:07,359
Speaker 1: up in wars, often not by their own choosing. Well,

808
00:47:07,360 --> 00:47:09,440
Speaker 1: so it's kind of like how they're like, you have

809
00:47:09,520 --> 00:47:12,000
Speaker 1: to go out and fight Antifa, you have to go

810
00:47:12,000 --> 00:47:14,280
Speaker 1: out and do a coup against the United States because

811
00:47:14,320 --> 00:47:18,480
Speaker 1: otherwise Antifa, who are all stalinists, are going to turn

812
00:47:19,160 --> 00:47:24,640
Speaker 1: the us into the uss are. Yes, yeah, yeah, that's yeah.

813
00:47:24,760 --> 00:47:28,480
Speaker 1: There there's no parallel. No, that's that's not a parallel. Sorry, okay, no,

814
00:47:28,640 --> 00:47:31,760
Speaker 1: it could never happen here. That's that's our big message

815
00:47:31,800 --> 00:47:35,280
Speaker 1: for today. So these guys they start heading down Agnula

816
00:47:35,320 --> 00:47:38,400
Speaker 1: Diagonal right towards Plasfa Cataluna, at the heart of the city.

817
00:47:39,000 --> 00:47:41,480
Speaker 1: The cavalry or on a different street carried Tarragona. There

818
00:47:41,480 --> 00:47:43,799
Speaker 1: are dragoons on a different street. They leave a little

819
00:47:43,880 --> 00:47:46,880
Speaker 1: later because the Spanish army is something of a clusterfuck,

820
00:47:47,360 --> 00:47:51,160
Speaker 1: and they all plan to join up, but they never did. Instead,

821
00:47:51,480 --> 00:47:55,000
Speaker 1: all across the city, sirens sound the alarm in factories

822
00:47:55,520 --> 00:47:57,880
Speaker 1: and where these troops have been planning to meet up

823
00:47:57,880 --> 00:48:00,160
Speaker 1: with one another. They met up with sniper fire and

824
00:48:00,200 --> 00:48:04,040
Speaker 1: those homemade bombs we talked about. Yeah, yeah, this is

825
00:48:04,040 --> 00:48:07,440
Speaker 1: where ship gets gets good. At the barricades, they met

826
00:48:07,480 --> 00:48:10,759
Speaker 1: men and women with everything from modern machine pistols to

827
00:48:10,840 --> 00:48:16,200
Speaker 1: blunderbusses and slingshots. Yeah, the blunderbusses are pretty cool. You

828
00:48:16,200 --> 00:48:20,040
Speaker 1: can find some pictures. Many troops were forced back into

829
00:48:20,080 --> 00:48:22,960
Speaker 1: their barracks. Some made it as far as a telephone

830
00:48:22,960 --> 00:48:25,560
Speaker 1: exchange and the hotel's Rits and Cologne in the middle

831
00:48:25,600 --> 00:48:30,640
Speaker 1: of the city. What the troops, who are incredibly poorly

832
00:48:30,680 --> 00:48:33,279
Speaker 1: trained consecuts with little or no combat experience and even

833
00:48:33,360 --> 00:48:36,160
Speaker 1: less willingness to fight, ran into It was the most

834
00:48:36,239 --> 00:48:40,759
Speaker 1: unlikely of alliances. Catalonia's Nationalists had governed the autonomous region

835
00:48:40,800 --> 00:48:43,960
Speaker 1: since the declaration of the Republic in ninety one. They

836
00:48:44,000 --> 00:48:47,440
Speaker 1: formed a broad leftist alliance called the Esca Republicanady Catalonia.

837
00:48:47,600 --> 00:48:49,880
Speaker 1: That means Catalan Republican Left. I was calling the e

838
00:48:50,040 --> 00:48:52,600
Speaker 1: r C to avoid that. It's a bit of an

839
00:48:52,640 --> 00:48:55,799
Speaker 1: alphabet soup, but I'll try and explain where I need

840
00:48:55,840 --> 00:48:58,920
Speaker 1: to so. Before the Popular Front existed, they're kind of

841
00:48:58,920 --> 00:49:03,399
Speaker 1: a proto popular. They combine liberal and leftist parties who

842
00:49:03,600 --> 00:49:07,279
Speaker 1: share agreement on autonomous and progressive Catalonia, and they tend

843
00:49:07,320 --> 00:49:09,480
Speaker 1: to be either aligned with or to the left of

844
00:49:09,520 --> 00:49:11,600
Speaker 1: the government in Madrid, most often to the left of

845
00:49:12,120 --> 00:49:15,480
Speaker 1: um They don't cover support of the anarchists, right. That's

846
00:49:15,520 --> 00:49:21,160
Speaker 1: important um luis compounds who's the leader right there, the

847
00:49:21,160 --> 00:49:24,200
Speaker 1: Catalan leader of the generality that at that point has

848
00:49:24,239 --> 00:49:26,440
Speaker 1: been a lawyer for the anarchist before, so he may

849
00:49:26,480 --> 00:49:28,560
Speaker 1: have more personal support than the party as a whole

850
00:49:28,600 --> 00:49:33,080
Speaker 1: had among the anarchists. Um, for decades, right, the police

851
00:49:33,080 --> 00:49:35,760
Speaker 1: in Barcelona have acted on behalf of capital against labor.

852
00:49:36,520 --> 00:49:38,560
Speaker 1: They do violence for the people who aren't stuff against

853
00:49:38,600 --> 00:49:42,160
Speaker 1: people who make stuff. And even under the republic, this

854
00:49:42,280 --> 00:49:44,720
Speaker 1: has continued, right, They had called it the Republic of order,

855
00:49:45,000 --> 00:49:49,880
Speaker 1: and Margaret, I think you covered the li the pistols

856
00:49:50,160 --> 00:49:53,680
Speaker 1: right there, the years of the pistol in the nineteen twenties. Yeah, yeah,

857
00:49:53,760 --> 00:49:58,120
Speaker 1: but um, it was, yeah, they like shooting the anarchists

858
00:49:58,239 --> 00:50:00,920
Speaker 1: in order to bring about order. They and they it

859
00:50:00,960 --> 00:50:03,080
Speaker 1: wasn't like a legal thing. They weren't like, oh, it's

860
00:50:03,080 --> 00:50:06,200
Speaker 1: our legal strategy. It was just like we're in charge,

861
00:50:06,200 --> 00:50:08,719
Speaker 1: so we will assassinate the anarchists and then the other

862
00:50:08,719 --> 00:50:11,000
Speaker 1: thing that like, I feel like it's like we're thinking

863
00:50:11,040 --> 00:50:12,920
Speaker 1: about because if if someone's hearing, you might be like,

864
00:50:13,239 --> 00:50:15,279
Speaker 1: why does the government care if the anarchists are on

865
00:50:15,320 --> 00:50:18,040
Speaker 1: their side? And it's to my understanding and correct me

866
00:50:18,040 --> 00:50:20,560
Speaker 1: if I'm wrong. The anarchists are like a huge chunk

867
00:50:20,800 --> 00:50:23,839
Speaker 1: of the working class of Barcelona at this point, so

868
00:50:23,880 --> 00:50:26,960
Speaker 1: it's like they actually do care because it's a huge,

869
00:50:27,520 --> 00:50:31,560
Speaker 1: huge swaths of people. The anarchists by the end of

870
00:50:31,600 --> 00:50:34,520
Speaker 1: the night will own the city. Right, and they have

871
00:50:34,640 --> 00:50:36,920
Speaker 1: always been the majority of the Catalan working class in

872
00:50:36,960 --> 00:50:40,920
Speaker 1: this period. They they control the way elections go. Right.

873
00:50:40,960 --> 00:50:43,840
Speaker 1: When the anarchists abstained, then the right winds. When the

874
00:50:43,840 --> 00:50:48,160
Speaker 1: anarchists they don't say, don't vote, like they don't like,

875
00:50:48,239 --> 00:50:50,520
Speaker 1: they're not like, yeah, I go vote, They're like, they

876
00:50:50,560 --> 00:50:58,000
Speaker 1: don't maybe consider not abstaining, then the popular front winds. Right. Yeah,

877
00:50:58,000 --> 00:51:00,799
Speaker 1: it's very funny how they how to use words. But yeah,

878
00:51:00,800 --> 00:51:03,120
Speaker 1: the the anarchists are the working class, for the for

879
00:51:03,160 --> 00:51:05,279
Speaker 1: the most of the most of the industries, most of

880
00:51:05,280 --> 00:51:07,440
Speaker 1: the unions are anarchos cynicalist. Right, so you don't have

881
00:51:07,480 --> 00:51:09,760
Speaker 1: support the anarchists, you don't have support the working class.

882
00:51:11,400 --> 00:51:13,840
Speaker 1: In the twenties, the cops called the anarchirts. The anarchists

883
00:51:13,880 --> 00:51:17,560
Speaker 1: called the cops. Right. This is how we get the

884
00:51:17,640 --> 00:51:23,839
Speaker 1: famous affinity groups, right, lost Darios, los Quixotes, delidial and

885
00:51:25,160 --> 00:51:27,200
Speaker 1: being some famous ones. Right, And we'll talk about them

886
00:51:27,200 --> 00:51:28,840
Speaker 1: a little bit in the next episode. How that works

887
00:51:28,840 --> 00:51:34,960
Speaker 1: and what they mean. Uh so not one. Their declaration

888
00:51:34,960 --> 00:51:37,719
Speaker 1: of Republic was a massive boost for the anarchists. Um

889
00:51:38,239 --> 00:51:40,239
Speaker 1: More people have joined anarchist unions they felt safe for

890
00:51:40,360 --> 00:51:43,920
Speaker 1: doing so. Primo de Rivera, the previous dictator had been

891
00:51:44,000 --> 00:51:46,960
Speaker 1: very harsh an anarchists. They actually briefly in the out

892
00:51:47,040 --> 00:51:50,880
Speaker 1: job the GAT secured like libertarian socialists and they just

893
00:51:50,920 --> 00:51:56,200
Speaker 1: took over some towns. Uh and like they they see

894
00:51:56,239 --> 00:51:58,839
Speaker 1: his weapons from the cops and abolished currency for a

895
00:51:58,840 --> 00:52:02,480
Speaker 1: week and it was just like, get it's on. It's

896
00:52:02,520 --> 00:52:06,000
Speaker 1: it's anarchism. And so for five days for goals belonged

897
00:52:06,040 --> 00:52:08,480
Speaker 1: to the people of the gold. And this is before

898
00:52:08,640 --> 00:52:11,160
Speaker 1: we talk about before the the coup and all of that. Yeah,

899
00:52:11,239 --> 00:52:15,320
Speaker 1: this is republic begins in one So there's a number

900
00:52:15,360 --> 00:52:17,880
Speaker 1: of these early on in the republic, when the state

901
00:52:18,080 --> 00:52:21,960
Speaker 1: is less violently postured towards anarchism, the anarchists really fucking

902
00:52:22,000 --> 00:52:24,759
Speaker 1: send it. Um. You see it in cassas via hearsts,

903
00:52:24,800 --> 00:52:27,680
Speaker 1: you see in fig goals. Um. So yeah, they more

904
00:52:27,680 --> 00:52:29,560
Speaker 1: people joining because they feel safe for joining, and that

905
00:52:29,640 --> 00:52:33,160
Speaker 1: leads to more open conflict with the sort of civil

906
00:52:33,280 --> 00:52:38,000
Speaker 1: order I guess. But with the threat of fascism looming,

907
00:52:38,080 --> 00:52:41,840
Speaker 1: the CNT establishes defense committees and these become like a

908
00:52:41,880 --> 00:52:44,520
Speaker 1: quick reaction force for the city, right, So by the

909
00:52:44,520 --> 00:52:47,280
Speaker 1: time the troops leave their barracks, activis within the CNT

910
00:52:47,440 --> 00:52:52,120
Speaker 1: were ready for them. Barcelona's Reval, the densely populated district

911
00:52:52,239 --> 00:52:54,839
Speaker 1: just off the more tourists friendly Rambler, have become known

912
00:52:54,840 --> 00:52:58,600
Speaker 1: as a Bali chins and that means Chinatown, not because

913
00:52:58,640 --> 00:53:00,839
Speaker 1: Chinese people are people with any Asian extraction lived there,

914
00:53:01,760 --> 00:53:05,279
Speaker 1: just because they watched gangster movies about Chicago's Chinatown and

915
00:53:05,320 --> 00:53:09,200
Speaker 1: they were like, oh, yeah, we're we can go that hard. Okay,

916
00:53:09,800 --> 00:53:12,560
Speaker 1: they just called it that. Chris Ellim has a great

917
00:53:12,560 --> 00:53:15,840
Speaker 1: book on the construction of Chinatown. Now, people have been

918
00:53:15,840 --> 00:53:18,239
Speaker 1: shooting each other in those streets for decades, right, But

919
00:53:19,239 --> 00:53:21,440
Speaker 1: for once everyone in the revol was pointing their guns

920
00:53:21,480 --> 00:53:25,479
Speaker 1: out every balcony, and the raval becomes a sniper's nest,

921
00:53:25,520 --> 00:53:28,520
Speaker 1: and by the time the sun came up, it was

922
00:53:28,520 --> 00:53:32,600
Speaker 1: an impenetrable fortress of the working class. And at this

923
00:53:32,680 --> 00:53:34,920
Speaker 1: time the state would find itself begging the anarchists for

924
00:53:34,960 --> 00:53:37,600
Speaker 1: support and not the other way around. And I think

925
00:53:37,640 --> 00:53:41,399
Speaker 1: that's maybe where we'll end it today, so that people

926
00:53:41,440 --> 00:53:43,480
Speaker 1: can be sort of teetering on the edge of the

927
00:53:43,520 --> 00:53:46,200
Speaker 1: seat to know what happens next. Thank you very much

928
00:53:46,200 --> 00:53:49,440
Speaker 1: for joining me, Margaret. Would you like to plug anything?

929
00:53:49,560 --> 00:53:52,200
Speaker 1: Do you have any plug doubles? Well, I have a

930
00:53:52,200 --> 00:53:55,279
Speaker 1: book that's available for preorder. It's called We Won't Be

931
00:53:55,320 --> 00:54:01,760
Speaker 1: Here Tomorrow. And if you like um transwoman who robs

932
00:54:01,920 --> 00:54:05,720
Speaker 1: guys and then feeds them to her mermaid lover, or

933
00:54:06,120 --> 00:54:10,680
Speaker 1: you like the um the dead in Valhalla coming back

934
00:54:10,719 --> 00:54:14,120
Speaker 1: and joining in an American civil war to fight against Nazis,

935
00:54:14,800 --> 00:54:18,000
Speaker 1: then you might like this book. Um. Actually, I think

936
00:54:18,040 --> 00:54:23,919
Speaker 1: I read that story on this podcast. UM fucking ruined

937
00:54:23,920 --> 00:54:26,279
Speaker 1: the next episode, because that's what happened as well, I know,

938
00:54:26,640 --> 00:54:30,279
Speaker 1: I know. Well, actually there's a different story that I

939
00:54:30,320 --> 00:54:33,520
Speaker 1: didn't write. I think. Oh no, there's one about um

940
00:54:34,080 --> 00:54:40,480
Speaker 1: velociraptors in the Spanish Civil War. Um that that anyway,

941
00:54:40,480 --> 00:54:45,040
Speaker 1: that's completely unrelated. Okay, So that is where you I'm

942
00:54:45,239 --> 00:54:47,080
Speaker 1: The book is currently available for pre order and if

943
00:54:47,080 --> 00:54:48,839
Speaker 1: you get it from a k Press or a couple

944
00:54:48,920 --> 00:54:51,520
Speaker 1: other different independent bookstores, then it comes with the free

945
00:54:51,600 --> 00:54:54,959
Speaker 1: art print that comes from the book, and so if

946
00:54:55,000 --> 00:54:57,759
Speaker 1: you like that, you could consider getting it or ask

947
00:54:57,800 --> 00:54:59,600
Speaker 1: your library to get it. And you can follow me

948
00:54:59,600 --> 00:55:02,439
Speaker 1: on the internet at Magpie killed Joy on Twitter and

949
00:55:02,719 --> 00:55:08,880
Speaker 1: Margaret kill Joy on Instagram. That's myable. I have a podcast,

950
00:55:09,000 --> 00:55:10,799
Speaker 1: I do. I actually have two podcasts. I have a

951
00:55:10,840 --> 00:55:13,400
Speaker 1: podcast called Live Like the World Is Dying, which is

952
00:55:13,440 --> 00:55:16,799
Speaker 1: an individual and community preparedness podcast, and I also have

953
00:55:16,840 --> 00:55:22,320
Speaker 1: a podcast on this very network. Um I do. Yeah,

954
00:55:22,120 --> 00:55:24,319
Speaker 1: you all haven't noticed it yet. I've just been kind

955
00:55:24,360 --> 00:55:28,000
Speaker 1: of uploading my stuff without checking with you all called

956
00:55:28,040 --> 00:55:32,200
Speaker 1: cool people who did cool stuff, which is all about history,

957
00:55:32,320 --> 00:55:39,520
Speaker 1: but in a fun way about stuff that cool. I'm

958
00:55:39,560 --> 00:55:42,839
Speaker 1: exciting against it right now. Thank you very much, thanks

959
00:55:42,880 --> 00:56:01,520
Speaker 1: for having me. Ah, welcome back to it could happen here.

960
00:56:01,560 --> 00:56:04,399
Speaker 1: This is part two of it can happen here, the

961
00:56:04,440 --> 00:56:08,320
Speaker 1: podcast that Fox. All right, that's my job done today. Okay,

962
00:56:08,360 --> 00:56:13,759
Speaker 1: Part two of James The Spanish Civil War and the

963
00:56:13,760 --> 00:56:18,279
Speaker 1: the Antifa Olympics. That's right, yep uh Civil War week.

964
00:56:18,360 --> 00:56:21,239
Speaker 1: Closing out with this one. Why does the Olympics? Why

965
00:56:21,280 --> 00:56:24,080
Speaker 1: did the Antifi Olympics hate freedom though? Is my question.

966
00:56:24,520 --> 00:56:27,560
Speaker 1: The Antifa Olympics are going around and destroying all of

967
00:56:27,600 --> 00:56:33,280
Speaker 1: the balls. Yeah, they are taking your children and Bustloads

968
00:56:33,360 --> 00:56:38,239
Speaker 1: of black clad athletes are showing up in your city. Stay.

969
00:56:39,200 --> 00:56:42,120
Speaker 1: This does make me think back briefly to win. A

970
00:56:42,160 --> 00:56:45,320
Speaker 1: couple of different anti fascist groups in Seattle and Portland

971
00:56:45,520 --> 00:56:48,439
Speaker 1: played soccer and it became a whole thing because yeah,

972
00:56:48,440 --> 00:56:51,880
Speaker 1: they were oh I used to play anarchist soccer in

973
00:56:51,920 --> 00:56:55,440
Speaker 1: New York City and oh that got that got canceled hard.

974
00:56:56,239 --> 00:56:59,520
Speaker 1: Well it's it's in Portland, got canceled art it Also

975
00:57:00,160 --> 00:57:01,640
Speaker 1: because it was in New York City, there was a

976
00:57:01,680 --> 00:57:04,719
Speaker 1: bunch of like semi famous actors who would come and

977
00:57:04,719 --> 00:57:09,759
Speaker 1: play anarchist soccer, but then couldn't be like visually associated,

978
00:57:09,800 --> 00:57:12,280
Speaker 1: so like people would all mask up in solidarity. Whatever

979
00:57:12,360 --> 00:57:15,479
Speaker 1: camera people would come by because like some famous actor

980
00:57:15,520 --> 00:57:19,080
Speaker 1: it was playing anarchist soccer in the park. That's very funny. Yeah,

981
00:57:19,080 --> 00:57:23,160
Speaker 1: that's that's standing. More of that needed. And yeah, these anarchists,

982
00:57:23,200 --> 00:57:25,200
Speaker 1: of course, would just busy doing the traditional anti faster

983
00:57:25,280 --> 00:57:28,680
Speaker 1: Just think of starting forest fires in Oregon before okay,

984
00:57:28,840 --> 00:57:32,400
Speaker 1: before the Civil War. So anyway, picking up from the

985
00:57:32,440 --> 00:57:35,120
Speaker 1: last episode where we left our heroes, Yeah, we're talking

986
00:57:35,160 --> 00:57:38,680
Speaker 1: about the heroes, right. So with the minitary merging towards

987
00:57:38,680 --> 00:57:41,080
Speaker 1: the city and every balcony in the working classroom ault

988
00:57:41,160 --> 00:57:44,120
Speaker 1: quickly becoming a sniper's nest. Every rifle was needed at

989
00:57:44,120 --> 00:57:48,000
Speaker 1: the barricades with Spanish and catle and tops took an impressed,

990
00:57:48,000 --> 00:57:51,440
Speaker 1: idented break from being bastards and instead significant elements of

991
00:57:51,440 --> 00:57:55,760
Speaker 1: the most squad Guardsville and the elite paramilitary assault guides

992
00:57:56,080 --> 00:57:59,120
Speaker 1: grabbed their hand carbines rifles with names like Tiger and

993
00:57:59,160 --> 00:58:03,480
Speaker 1: Destroyer and took none of them are called Roberts saddi

994
00:58:04,040 --> 00:58:07,800
Speaker 1: um and took to the barricades. What a missed opportunity.

995
00:58:08,440 --> 00:58:11,840
Speaker 1: This is why the Spanish lost. Get me my robbit,

996
00:58:12,360 --> 00:58:15,720
Speaker 1: I can see it now. I'm prepared to help you

997
00:58:15,760 --> 00:58:18,320
Speaker 1: with the advertising. It no, just just gonna bob them

998
00:58:18,400 --> 00:58:22,680
Speaker 1: right up. That's why they called them bobbies. Yeah, famously.

999
00:58:23,440 --> 00:58:24,760
Speaker 1: I think we need to make I think it needs

1000
00:58:24,800 --> 00:58:29,600
Speaker 1: to be some sort of like nine barreled electronic volley gun. Yeah,

1001
00:58:30,280 --> 00:58:32,520
Speaker 1: somebody we could take out to something that could take

1002
00:58:32,560 --> 00:58:35,200
Speaker 1: out at least two Japanese prime ministers at once. You

1003
00:58:35,240 --> 00:58:37,760
Speaker 1: only need two barrels for one prime minister, so you

1004
00:58:37,760 --> 00:58:44,160
Speaker 1: could get up to four. Yeah, yeah, say some time. Yeah,

1005
00:58:45,240 --> 00:58:47,920
Speaker 1: all right, today you go back and get Joan shiro Koaizumi,

1006
00:58:48,160 --> 00:58:53,360
Speaker 1: finally bring him to justice with a nine barrel pipe gun.

1007
00:58:53,880 --> 00:58:57,120
Speaker 1: M okay so these people. So the cops and the

1008
00:58:57,120 --> 00:58:59,640
Speaker 1: anarchists are fighting alongside each other. Is that what you're

1009
00:58:59,640 --> 00:59:02,560
Speaker 1: telling for wrecked? Yep. The anarchists are pulling up paving stones,

1010
00:59:02,920 --> 00:59:06,200
Speaker 1: building barricades, which they had learned in previous conflict with

1011
00:59:06,240 --> 00:59:10,400
Speaker 1: the state could stop light artillery, and they are welcoming

1012
00:59:10,440 --> 00:59:13,160
Speaker 1: the cops. It's worth pointing out that the here is

1013
00:59:13,160 --> 00:59:14,600
Speaker 1: a Day are not cops, and the here is a

1014
00:59:14,720 --> 00:59:18,200
Speaker 1: Day are very rarely cops. Instead, it's the ordinary people

1015
00:59:18,240 --> 00:59:22,720
Speaker 1: of Catalonia, right, Everyone from liberals to left libertarians runs

1016
00:59:22,760 --> 00:59:27,480
Speaker 1: to the barricades. But the anarchist affinity groups, the anarchist

1017
00:59:27,880 --> 00:59:32,320
Speaker 1: defense committees are the mortar that holds together the resistance. Right.

1018
00:59:32,720 --> 00:59:36,880
Speaker 1: They are experienced, they have plans, They provide impetus and

1019
00:59:36,920 --> 00:59:39,680
Speaker 1: inspiration to the working class. They are ready when their

1020
00:59:39,720 --> 00:59:42,800
Speaker 1: liberal government is not um. They're a pretty good handle

1021
00:59:42,800 --> 00:59:44,720
Speaker 1: on fighting in the streets of Barcelona too. This is

1022
00:59:44,720 --> 00:59:47,480
Speaker 1: their home turf right, And incidentally, we see this ship

1023
00:59:47,560 --> 00:59:49,280
Speaker 1: a lot like people who are good at fighting the

1024
00:59:49,320 --> 00:59:52,880
Speaker 1: cops become integral and fighting the state happened in the Maidan,

1025
00:59:53,440 --> 00:59:56,560
Speaker 1: happened in ter Rear Square, both with ultras right liquor

1026
00:59:56,560 --> 00:59:59,520
Speaker 1: football fans, people who go to football games that also

1027
00:59:59,560 --> 01:00:02,640
Speaker 1: like fighting cops. Um, so, like, it's not unprecedented that

1028
01:00:02,680 --> 01:00:04,880
Speaker 1: the folks who are good at fighting the cops become

1029
01:00:04,880 --> 01:00:09,040
Speaker 1: integral at fighting the state when state turns bad turns

1030
01:00:09,120 --> 01:00:14,120
Speaker 1: bad in many cases. They also have more experience when

1031
01:00:14,120 --> 01:00:16,919
Speaker 1: it plating their weapons than the poorly trained conscripts, because

1032
01:00:16,920 --> 01:00:18,960
Speaker 1: it would be pretty hard to have less. There's a

1033
01:00:19,000 --> 01:00:21,680
Speaker 1: little bit of a debate, a discussion about causality here.

1034
01:00:22,120 --> 01:00:24,919
Speaker 1: Does the cooper fail where it does because the cops

1035
01:00:25,000 --> 01:00:29,200
Speaker 1: remain loyal or does the beach head established by the

1036
01:00:29,200 --> 01:00:32,360
Speaker 1: working class a lava cops who were sympathetic but not

1037
01:00:32,400 --> 01:00:38,080
Speaker 1: convinced to safely remain loyal. Right, so, across Spain, it's

1038
01:00:38,200 --> 01:00:40,360
Speaker 1: like not quite the same as us to the cops

1039
01:00:40,400 --> 01:00:43,400
Speaker 1: are better trained and better armed than the military, but

1040
01:00:43,720 --> 01:00:46,720
Speaker 1: they often hung back until the working class to take

1041
01:00:46,720 --> 01:00:49,880
Speaker 1: a decisive action. Right. Um, the it was where the

1042
01:00:49,920 --> 01:00:54,880
Speaker 1: winds blowing, Yeah, exactly like they sometimes like occasionally they

1043
01:00:54,920 --> 01:00:57,320
Speaker 1: will do some sort of kingship like in the one

1044
01:00:57,400 --> 01:01:01,840
Speaker 1: city they couple of the assault guards their officers side

1045
01:01:01,840 --> 01:01:03,680
Speaker 1: with a coup so they get shot by their own men.

1046
01:01:06,640 --> 01:01:10,320
Speaker 1: Love to see in other places they signed to do nothing.

1047
01:01:10,560 --> 01:01:12,680
Speaker 1: In some places the soldiers come for them, where they're like,

1048
01:01:12,680 --> 01:01:15,360
Speaker 1: suck it, it's on now. But in other places they

1049
01:01:15,480 --> 01:01:17,640
Speaker 1: join with the working class, as they do in Barcelona.

1050
01:01:17,680 --> 01:01:20,440
Speaker 1: The civil Guard is older. The civil Guard tends to

1051
01:01:20,480 --> 01:01:22,200
Speaker 1: be in more rural places where the coup tends to

1052
01:01:22,200 --> 01:01:24,680
Speaker 1: be more successful, and civil guide tends to be less

1053
01:01:24,680 --> 01:01:28,160
Speaker 1: loyal to the republic. The civil Guide in Barcelona waits

1054
01:01:28,240 --> 01:01:31,959
Speaker 1: until noon. The coup is really defeated by noon. By noon,

1055
01:01:32,320 --> 01:01:34,800
Speaker 1: the soldiers all hold up in the food buildings and

1056
01:01:34,920 --> 01:01:37,160
Speaker 1: it's very clear that they haven't won. And then they

1057
01:01:37,200 --> 01:01:40,680
Speaker 1: come in on a horseback clip clopping down the street

1058
01:01:40,720 --> 01:01:44,160
Speaker 1: doing the raised fist salute, like just milking it to

1059
01:01:44,240 --> 01:01:46,440
Speaker 1: announce their sort of loyalty to republic. They did have

1060
01:01:47,120 --> 01:01:49,520
Speaker 1: better guns and better marksman, so they were helpful in

1061
01:01:49,560 --> 01:01:54,280
Speaker 1: assaulting their buildings. That came next. Alright, alright, everyone, we're here.

1062
01:01:54,360 --> 01:01:59,440
Speaker 1: We saved the day. Yeah, here we go, thin blue line.

1063
01:02:01,120 --> 01:02:06,000
Speaker 1: So what happens all across Barcelona is the tremendously poorly

1064
01:02:06,160 --> 01:02:09,880
Speaker 1: organized army meet well organized when in trench resistance, and

1065
01:02:09,920 --> 01:02:12,560
Speaker 1: they're killed a turn back. So I want to give

1066
01:02:13,080 --> 01:02:16,320
Speaker 1: one example of this from Avenue D Carrier. It's related

1067
01:02:16,320 --> 01:02:18,600
Speaker 1: by Beaver in his book. Now, what they've done in

1068
01:02:18,640 --> 01:02:21,440
Speaker 1: the carrier was taken out huge rolls of newsprint like

1069
01:02:21,520 --> 01:02:23,760
Speaker 1: the stuff that you put newspaper on, and rolled them

1070
01:02:23,760 --> 01:02:28,880
Speaker 1: into the streets to make a barricade. Right, Um, so yeah,

1071
01:02:29,520 --> 01:02:33,480
Speaker 1: the degree to which people were like ready in amusing

1072
01:02:33,480 --> 01:02:37,960
Speaker 1: ways is it's a great part of this, you know.

1073
01:02:38,120 --> 01:02:39,880
Speaker 1: That was what they had available to them. Seems to

1074
01:02:39,920 --> 01:02:44,320
Speaker 1: be stopping bullets. So is the way to stop bullets?

1075
01:02:44,640 --> 01:02:50,840
Speaker 1: It is, Yeah, lots of layers of newsprint, um, different places,

1076
01:02:50,840 --> 01:02:54,000
Speaker 1: so yes, it was yeah, yeah, it certainly seemed to

1077
01:02:54,120 --> 01:02:56,360
Speaker 1: work here. And they had their big old guns like

1078
01:02:57,000 --> 01:03:00,720
Speaker 1: Spanish mouses, certifying stops for a second, and a small

1079
01:03:00,760 --> 01:03:03,560
Speaker 1: group of workers and an assault guard close the distance

1080
01:03:03,600 --> 01:03:06,400
Speaker 1: between themselves and to seventy five millimeter field guns. But

1081
01:03:06,440 --> 01:03:09,160
Speaker 1: they're holding their rifles above their heads. They said that

1082
01:03:09,240 --> 01:03:11,960
Speaker 1: they wanted to talk and not to fight for a

1083
01:03:12,000 --> 01:03:14,280
Speaker 1: few minutes, to give a passionate speech informing the soldiers

1084
01:03:14,320 --> 01:03:17,000
Speaker 1: they've been lied to that the anarchists were not in revolt,

1085
01:03:17,080 --> 01:03:19,200
Speaker 1: that they were in fact part of a coup, and

1086
01:03:19,200 --> 01:03:22,120
Speaker 1: that they should not fire on their Predatorian brothers. It's

1087
01:03:22,160 --> 01:03:24,360
Speaker 1: not exactly clear what they said, but whatever they said,

1088
01:03:24,400 --> 01:03:27,840
Speaker 1: it worked, and very slowly the seed of class consciousness

1089
01:03:27,880 --> 01:03:30,320
Speaker 1: was planted and it bloomed in about the time it

1090
01:03:30,360 --> 01:03:32,600
Speaker 1: takes to turn a seventy five millimeter gun a hundred

1091
01:03:32,600 --> 01:03:39,040
Speaker 1: and eighty degrees loaded and fired at your offices. Again,

1092
01:03:39,120 --> 01:03:44,600
Speaker 1: it's just so good like that that these powerful anecdotes

1093
01:03:44,680 --> 01:03:47,640
Speaker 1: of like someone just being like, ha, yeah, now that

1094
01:03:47,680 --> 01:03:50,200
Speaker 1: you phrase it like that, we're on the same team.

1095
01:03:50,680 --> 01:03:55,360
Speaker 1: Let me turn the stund Yeah, I ALSASO just love

1096
01:03:55,480 --> 01:03:57,440
Speaker 1: to think of a guy who has just been like

1097
01:03:57,840 --> 01:04:03,840
Speaker 1: previously like for God and country gets vaporized by seventy

1098
01:04:03,880 --> 01:04:10,680
Speaker 1: five millimet Again, it's truly magnificent to death. So the

1099
01:04:10,680 --> 01:04:14,040
Speaker 1: popular Olympians are still in town, right, Uh that they

1100
01:04:14,080 --> 01:04:18,160
Speaker 1: turned up to show off as anti fascist, but they

1101
01:04:18,200 --> 01:04:21,160
Speaker 1: didn't really expect to be showing off their anti fascist

1102
01:04:21,200 --> 01:04:24,160
Speaker 1: BUTTA fighters quite like this, But lots of and were

1103
01:04:24,200 --> 01:04:27,600
Speaker 1: winning participants. The Americans were down by the buck of

1104
01:04:27,680 --> 01:04:30,320
Speaker 1: ther market. You've probably been there, you've been to Barcelona.

1105
01:04:30,600 --> 01:04:33,960
Speaker 1: He probably bought an edible arrangement um what tourists like

1106
01:04:34,040 --> 01:04:37,200
Speaker 1: to do. Um. And they watched the streets around them

1107
01:04:37,200 --> 01:04:40,080
Speaker 1: turn into battle brands. You can see the bullet holes

1108
01:04:40,080 --> 01:04:42,160
Speaker 1: in the hotel where they stayed in some of the

1109
01:04:42,160 --> 01:04:46,520
Speaker 1: cafes around there, and that some of these bullet holes

1110
01:04:46,560 --> 01:04:49,640
Speaker 1: that should be mentioned from a sadah and altogether different battle.

1111
01:04:49,880 --> 01:04:53,680
Speaker 1: A year later and this day they popped out of

1112
01:04:53,720 --> 01:04:55,120
Speaker 1: their hotel rooms to take a look at what was

1113
01:04:55,160 --> 01:04:58,200
Speaker 1: going on, got shot at, and then went back inside

1114
01:04:58,360 --> 01:05:01,280
Speaker 1: and then out of different balconies. But they had this

1115
01:05:01,360 --> 01:05:04,439
Speaker 1: big of popping out of different balconies, like I don't

1116
01:05:04,520 --> 01:05:06,320
Speaker 1: understand what the fund is going on in their heads,

1117
01:05:06,320 --> 01:05:08,800
Speaker 1: whether like people keep shooting at us, let's continue to

1118
01:05:08,800 --> 01:05:14,720
Speaker 1: try different balconies. I can see doing that, just being serious, right,

1119
01:05:14,800 --> 01:05:17,400
Speaker 1: like yeah yeah yeah, they and they'd all made friends

1120
01:05:17,400 --> 01:05:19,240
Speaker 1: with Spanish people, right, they were just they were not

1121
01:05:19,280 --> 01:05:21,600
Speaker 1: the athletes of today that they were out late drinking

1122
01:05:21,640 --> 01:05:24,560
Speaker 1: every night, and they were really bummed, very quickly, very

1123
01:05:24,640 --> 01:05:27,240
Speaker 1: upset that we need to get stuck in like you know,

1124
01:05:27,280 --> 01:05:30,800
Speaker 1: we're young, healthy people and their diaries. They also right

1125
01:05:30,840 --> 01:05:34,160
Speaker 1: about seeing the Spanish women at the barricade and just

1126
01:05:34,240 --> 01:05:40,280
Speaker 1: being like, oh funk, yes this is outstanding. Yeah, um yeah,

1127
01:05:40,280 --> 01:05:43,400
Speaker 1: they're they're just like because they're very committed, right, like

1128
01:05:43,680 --> 01:05:47,640
Speaker 1: these these anti fatties are very committed to gender equality,

1129
01:05:47,680 --> 01:05:51,240
Speaker 1: Like they really are. And it's it's demonstable in all

1130
01:05:51,280 --> 01:05:54,040
Speaker 1: the communications about the popular Olympics, when they send stuff

1131
01:05:54,080 --> 01:05:56,200
Speaker 1: to unions and unions like here's a team. It's tend

1132
01:05:56,280 --> 01:05:58,560
Speaker 1: dude say like, well that's fucking disappointing, Like where are

1133
01:05:58,600 --> 01:06:01,400
Speaker 1: the women? What are we doing here? Hey? How are

1134
01:06:01,400 --> 01:06:03,000
Speaker 1: we making the world better with just a bunch of

1135
01:06:03,080 --> 01:06:06,680
Speaker 1: dudes exercising together? Like? Um? So that it really is.

1136
01:06:06,760 --> 01:06:09,200
Speaker 1: I think it's very genuine commitment for them, and they're yeah,

1137
01:06:09,240 --> 01:06:13,160
Speaker 1: they're just so pumped. So when the fighting lolls, these

1138
01:06:13,160 --> 01:06:16,800
Speaker 1: guys come running out and they saw those cavalry horses, right,

1139
01:06:16,840 --> 01:06:19,200
Speaker 1: the cavalry horses that they'd expected to parade down the

1140
01:06:19,320 --> 01:06:23,080
Speaker 1: Rambler in the victorious coup had now been stacked on

1141
01:06:23,120 --> 01:06:27,960
Speaker 1: top of each other as barricades, and so the horses, Yes,

1142
01:06:28,440 --> 01:06:31,320
Speaker 1: they used the horses as cover. You can find pictures

1143
01:06:31,360 --> 01:06:35,640
Speaker 1: of this. Yeah, yeah, it kind of the horses didn't

1144
01:06:35,640 --> 01:06:38,720
Speaker 1: want to be fascists. Yeah, but I think you can

1145
01:06:38,720 --> 01:06:40,160
Speaker 1: take some solace in knowing that the people who are

1146
01:06:40,240 --> 01:06:44,920
Speaker 1: riding them also got killed. Yeah, you say, the horses

1147
01:06:44,960 --> 01:06:48,680
Speaker 1: didn't want to be fascist. This is in the intersection

1148
01:06:48,680 --> 01:06:51,560
Speaker 1: of ship. You enjoy Robert Actually, yeah, yeah, shifting on

1149
01:06:51,680 --> 01:06:57,280
Speaker 1: horses and hating fascists, which are the same horses would

1150
01:06:57,320 --> 01:07:00,560
Speaker 1: be very good at shifting on fascists for a great night.

1151
01:07:02,640 --> 01:07:08,720
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, I know, r I P. Horses did nothing wrong.

1152
01:07:10,200 --> 01:07:14,880
Speaker 1: Paul went out for the horses. So Charlie Burley runs

1153
01:07:14,880 --> 01:07:17,360
Speaker 1: down into the street, right, He's pretty accustomed to fighting.

1154
01:07:17,440 --> 01:07:20,000
Speaker 1: He's a boxer. He is a mixed race kid who

1155
01:07:20,000 --> 01:07:23,120
Speaker 1: grew up in Pittsburgh. He's refused to go to the

1156
01:07:23,880 --> 01:07:27,000
Speaker 1: Olympics because he doesn't want any of Hitler's bullshit and

1157
01:07:27,240 --> 01:07:30,440
Speaker 1: he doesn't speak Spanish. So all he needed, oh he

1158
01:07:30,480 --> 01:07:33,880
Speaker 1: knows how to do. It's pick up a crowbar, start

1159
01:07:34,040 --> 01:07:38,040
Speaker 1: leavering up paving stones and helping to build a barricade

1160
01:07:39,000 --> 01:07:45,040
Speaker 1: the universal language, yeah, breaking ship. And so he just

1161
01:07:45,080 --> 01:07:47,600
Speaker 1: gets stuck in and now I'm rhythm do right. These

1162
01:07:47,600 --> 01:07:49,280
Speaker 1: barricades he built, like I said, they were so strong

1163
01:07:49,320 --> 01:07:53,200
Speaker 1: that they would stop like artillery across the city whipped

1164
01:07:53,400 --> 01:07:56,440
Speaker 1: and snaps of bullets cracked across the wide boulevards that

1165
01:07:56,520 --> 01:08:00,120
Speaker 1: cut through the regimented grid as the exemplar snipers were

1166
01:08:00,160 --> 01:08:03,480
Speaker 1: stationed in the bell towers of churches. They picked off

1167
01:08:03,520 --> 01:08:06,200
Speaker 1: the newly formed People's militiaies a dash between the barricades

1168
01:08:06,240 --> 01:08:10,600
Speaker 1: carrying ammunition of food. A French athlete the right wing snipers.

1169
01:08:11,080 --> 01:08:14,240
Speaker 1: That's correct. Yeah, yeah, so that you will definitely read it.

1170
01:08:14,240 --> 01:08:18,000
Speaker 1: They were priests, but they're not. I don't think, just

1171
01:08:18,200 --> 01:08:20,000
Speaker 1: a weird you know, if you're gonna put a sniper,

1172
01:08:20,040 --> 01:08:21,120
Speaker 1: then you want to put something up there who knows

1173
01:08:21,160 --> 01:08:24,000
Speaker 1: how chees a rifle. But yeah, that makes yes, yes,

1174
01:08:24,040 --> 01:08:26,120
Speaker 1: so they probably weren't pretty that doesn't mean the priests.

1175
01:08:26,120 --> 01:08:28,400
Speaker 1: We're not betting them. Surely were. It's some points, um,

1176
01:08:28,920 --> 01:08:31,800
Speaker 1: But yeah, this is why the churches get burned. It's

1177
01:08:31,880 --> 01:08:35,599
Speaker 1: one of the reasons. A group of German exiles suspected

1178
01:08:35,640 --> 01:08:40,479
Speaker 1: their companies diplomats might be involved, so they raided their

1179
01:08:40,479 --> 01:08:46,479
Speaker 1: homes and found massive statues of weapons, which is great.

1180
01:08:46,720 --> 01:08:49,400
Speaker 1: The Republic had very liberal asylum policies, So you have

1181
01:08:49,439 --> 01:08:52,080
Speaker 1: a town of German Italian anti fascists already in town

1182
01:08:52,880 --> 01:08:56,280
Speaker 1: and elsewhere. People found each other in the streets, were

1183
01:08:56,320 --> 01:08:59,360
Speaker 1: joined up with pre existing affinity groups to form Centuria

1184
01:09:00,200 --> 01:09:02,519
Speaker 1: Centorio is a Latin word for units for a hundred soldiers.

1185
01:09:02,960 --> 01:09:05,600
Speaker 1: They're broadly based on language, and they're named after some

1186
01:09:05,720 --> 01:09:12,120
Speaker 1: famous leftist like Tom Mann, Karl Marx or Salomon Rent

1187
01:09:12,160 --> 01:09:17,320
Speaker 1: their founder of Antifa with a capital uh. Later these

1188
01:09:18,160 --> 01:09:21,160
Speaker 1: would become the nucleus of the International Brigades. But the

1189
01:09:21,160 --> 01:09:24,640
Speaker 1: International Brigades were the army of the commintern and the

1190
01:09:24,920 --> 01:09:30,920
Speaker 1: Centuria went basically like under Soviet control. Yes, that's right

1191
01:09:30,960 --> 01:09:34,120
Speaker 1: there Soviet controlled communist internationals, so they would not trying

1192
01:09:34,240 --> 01:09:37,400
Speaker 1: lee stylist more or less right, and certainly like you

1193
01:09:37,439 --> 01:09:39,920
Speaker 1: can read our ship hand about the International Brigades going

1194
01:09:40,000 --> 01:09:45,240
Speaker 1: from a broad popular front leftist alliance to straight up

1195
01:09:45,280 --> 01:09:48,439
Speaker 1: stylist and what that does to their their desire to

1196
01:09:48,479 --> 01:09:51,639
Speaker 1: fight and their ability to fight. And I would suggest

1197
01:09:51,640 --> 01:09:54,040
Speaker 1: that it's not great, but it's a story as all

1198
01:09:54,120 --> 01:09:58,400
Speaker 1: the time, Yes it is. Yeah, draw your own conclusions.

1199
01:09:58,400 --> 01:09:59,960
Speaker 1: Cecil lb is very good on that if you want

1200
01:10:00,080 --> 01:10:03,600
Speaker 1: read his book. So these Centuria don't have officers, and

1201
01:10:03,600 --> 01:10:07,040
Speaker 1: they certainly don't have commissars. Right and off their roll

1202
01:10:07,880 --> 01:10:12,559
Speaker 1: too fight the Nazis. By eleven am, General Goddard has

1203
01:10:12,600 --> 01:10:16,160
Speaker 1: landed from New Yorker. He was hoping to command the city,

1204
01:10:16,240 --> 01:10:18,240
Speaker 1: which he The nationalists thought that the Backburner would be

1205
01:10:18,240 --> 01:10:19,800
Speaker 1: the easiest city for them, right, they thought it was

1206
01:10:19,800 --> 01:10:25,840
Speaker 1: a soft target. They were wrong. I don't know what again, Yeah,

1207
01:10:26,200 --> 01:10:30,080
Speaker 1: not smart. It was only through the intervention of Caddida,

1208
01:10:31,479 --> 01:10:35,400
Speaker 1: her son incidentally killed Trotsky, that his life was spared.

1209
01:10:35,840 --> 01:10:38,559
Speaker 1: He hold up in the headquarters. Headquarters was over run.

1210
01:10:38,640 --> 01:10:41,760
Speaker 1: They wanted to execute him immediately. She intervened. She says, no,

1211
01:10:41,960 --> 01:10:43,920
Speaker 1: you know, we've gotta we gotta do this pretended justice.

1212
01:10:43,920 --> 01:10:45,960
Speaker 1: So we put him on the prison ship of Uruguay

1213
01:10:46,479 --> 01:10:48,840
Speaker 1: and then he's killed a little later, after a court martial.

1214
01:10:49,760 --> 01:10:52,120
Speaker 1: He's executed a few weeks later in the mounch Wee Castle.

1215
01:10:52,680 --> 01:10:55,080
Speaker 1: That day in the mounch Wee Castle, the troops had

1216
01:10:55,080 --> 01:10:58,000
Speaker 1: shot their officers and the n c o s had

1217
01:10:58,080 --> 01:11:00,000
Speaker 1: lead did a raid on the armory where they began

1218
01:11:00,000 --> 01:11:04,920
Speaker 1: and distributing guns to anarchists. Again yeah, very cool, Yeah,

1219
01:11:05,160 --> 01:11:08,719
Speaker 1: I love to see it. The Cattle Left and the

1220
01:11:08,840 --> 01:11:13,720
Speaker 1: Catholic Church had some historical disagreements. Right, the Church had

1221
01:11:13,720 --> 01:11:17,080
Speaker 1: a long history of violence towards the left, and the

1222
01:11:17,160 --> 01:11:19,639
Speaker 1: left had equally long history of violence towards the church.

1223
01:11:21,080 --> 01:11:26,040
Speaker 1: The church had been part of brutal oppression of the

1224
01:11:26,080 --> 01:11:30,960
Speaker 1: working class, right victimization of people, especially of working class women,

1225
01:11:31,040 --> 01:11:35,480
Speaker 1: and as troops withdrew from the city in July, anarchists

1226
01:11:35,479 --> 01:11:39,520
Speaker 1: began to take revenge against the churches. Nun's corpses were disinterred,

1227
01:11:39,920 --> 01:11:44,000
Speaker 1: priests accused of collaboration were executed. By the afternoon, the

1228
01:11:44,040 --> 01:11:46,960
Speaker 1: sky began to fill with smoke. Churches burned all over

1229
01:11:47,000 --> 01:11:50,000
Speaker 1: the city. Sometimes they have these things called checkers, which

1230
01:11:50,000 --> 01:11:52,680
Speaker 1: are like revenutionary tribunals where they put the priests or

1231
01:11:52,720 --> 01:11:56,840
Speaker 1: the churches themselves. Later outside Madrid, there's a famous photo

1232
01:11:56,840 --> 01:11:59,519
Speaker 1: of them like executing a giant statue of Jesus tries

1233
01:11:59,520 --> 01:12:04,360
Speaker 1: so after put it on trial. That's watch in the

1234
01:12:04,400 --> 01:12:07,800
Speaker 1: future for Robert Evans is that is a pretty funny bit.

1235
01:12:08,560 --> 01:12:12,559
Speaker 1: It's good. There's a firing squad and everything. That is

1236
01:12:12,600 --> 01:12:14,880
Speaker 1: like a pretty good dedication to the bit. You've got it.

1237
01:12:15,080 --> 01:12:16,800
Speaker 1: Whether or not you agree with it, you have to

1238
01:12:16,840 --> 01:12:21,439
Speaker 1: respect it. Yeah, yeah, it's a good T shirt. Maybe

1239
01:12:21,479 --> 01:12:25,799
Speaker 1: we could return to merch and have that that image.

1240
01:12:25,840 --> 01:12:28,400
Speaker 1: But yeah, some Catholics rebuilt it. Daddy, it's it's no

1241
01:12:28,479 --> 01:12:31,240
Speaker 1: longer riddled with bullet holes in its face. Well, let's

1242
01:12:31,280 --> 01:12:38,439
Speaker 1: time to do well, yeah, you know what that means. Yes,

1243
01:12:38,760 --> 01:12:45,360
Speaker 1: it's time to kill God and storm heaven. Yeah, and

1244
01:12:45,600 --> 01:12:51,400
Speaker 1: redistribute all the stuff harps for everyone. Yeah. People wore robes. Actually,

1245
01:12:51,760 --> 01:12:53,720
Speaker 1: this became a bit of an issue because people will

1246
01:12:53,760 --> 01:12:55,439
Speaker 1: be like, lo, look at me, I'm wearing a robe.

1247
01:12:55,439 --> 01:12:57,000
Speaker 1: I pretend to be a priest. And then other people

1248
01:12:57,040 --> 01:13:04,679
Speaker 1: will be like, fuck you priest and shoot them. Yeah,

1249
01:13:05,120 --> 01:13:07,880
Speaker 1: I don't do that. Actually, ropes for everyone. Bad idea.

1250
01:13:08,360 --> 01:13:10,840
Speaker 1: At a time of anti clerical violence. What you can

1251
01:13:10,960 --> 01:13:13,240
Speaker 1: do is drink all the communion wine, which is what

1252
01:13:13,280 --> 01:13:15,880
Speaker 1: they did. I'm sorry. All the blood of Christ is

1253
01:13:15,880 --> 01:13:18,080
Speaker 1: what they're donk. Yes, yes, I'm sorry. Actually, I guess

1254
01:13:18,120 --> 01:13:20,479
Speaker 1: it only becomes that in the stomach. Yeah, no, I'm

1255
01:13:20,520 --> 01:13:22,519
Speaker 1: a bad Catholic. I don't remember any of this. Or

1256
01:13:22,800 --> 01:13:25,639
Speaker 1: it's just wine until they until they do the thing

1257
01:13:26,400 --> 01:13:28,920
Speaker 1: and say the words, and then there's something special happens.

1258
01:13:29,000 --> 01:13:32,360
Speaker 1: That's that's that's the the Eucharist. So it was the

1259
01:13:32,439 --> 01:13:35,840
Speaker 1: pre blood. Yeah, it's it's pretty glad. It's just sweet wine.

1260
01:13:36,200 --> 01:13:40,920
Speaker 1: M By the twenties, a July, the military was all

1261
01:13:41,000 --> 01:13:42,760
Speaker 1: but done for in a city, right, But they some

1262
01:13:42,880 --> 01:13:46,120
Speaker 1: of them had retreated back to their barracks immediately. They

1263
01:13:46,160 --> 01:13:48,720
Speaker 1: came out promptly, got shot up by a ship ton

1264
01:13:48,720 --> 01:13:54,759
Speaker 1: of people and went nope, and poll returned to the barracks.

1265
01:13:55,200 --> 01:13:59,080
Speaker 1: So smarter than the tourists at the hotel. Yes, although

1266
01:13:59,760 --> 01:14:02,080
Speaker 1: I know about that because these guys end up dying

1267
01:14:02,160 --> 01:14:07,280
Speaker 1: there and the tourists do not, the side one. But yes, yeah,

1268
01:14:07,280 --> 01:14:11,920
Speaker 1: idea true. Well I would be lying if I said

1269
01:14:11,960 --> 01:14:15,599
Speaker 1: the tourists do not, because one of those tourists does,

1270
01:14:16,120 --> 01:14:19,160
Speaker 1: a guy called Albert I'll Chacken. They called him chick.

1271
01:14:19,720 --> 01:14:23,479
Speaker 1: He was a coach of the team, community college professor actually,

1272
01:14:24,240 --> 01:14:29,080
Speaker 1: and he leaves, goes back to America and just can't

1273
01:14:29,120 --> 01:14:32,600
Speaker 1: deal with like missing. It's not so much at the

1274
01:14:32,600 --> 01:14:34,439
Speaker 1: guilt of not being there. It's and I think some

1275
01:14:34,479 --> 01:14:36,040
Speaker 1: of us maybe can relate to this in a way, right,

1276
01:14:36,080 --> 01:14:40,000
Speaker 1: like the missing of being there too, like that, Yeah,

1277
01:14:40,120 --> 01:14:45,719
Speaker 1: and how special it feels roberts off. Robert can relate

1278
01:14:45,760 --> 01:14:47,599
Speaker 1: to this, right, like sometimes it's some time you feel

1279
01:14:47,640 --> 01:14:49,639
Speaker 1: the most alive is when you're trying not to be dead.

1280
01:14:50,160 --> 01:14:53,720
Speaker 1: But also like this was a fucking awesome time right,

1281
01:14:53,800 --> 01:14:56,599
Speaker 1: Like the cops have joined the working class, the churches

1282
01:14:56,640 --> 01:14:59,759
Speaker 1: are on fire, the bosses are running for the hills,

1283
01:14:59,840 --> 01:15:02,400
Speaker 1: and the army has just had its ass handed to

1284
01:15:02,479 --> 01:15:04,840
Speaker 1: it by like a bunch of men and women in

1285
01:15:04,880 --> 01:15:07,280
Speaker 1: blue overrules. Like I can imagine. It felt pretty cool.

1286
01:15:07,960 --> 01:15:10,880
Speaker 1: And so he goes home and then he decided to

1287
01:15:10,920 --> 01:15:13,559
Speaker 1: come back. He comes back with his wife. His wife

1288
01:15:13,600 --> 01:15:19,240
Speaker 1: wins the first art therapy program for children traumatized by conflict. Yeah,

1289
01:15:19,240 --> 01:15:22,600
Speaker 1: that the the pictures are ECSD. I used to go

1290
01:15:22,640 --> 01:15:25,559
Speaker 1: sit with them all the time, just kind of I

1291
01:15:25,600 --> 01:15:27,639
Speaker 1: don't feels like a special place, like a nice connection.

1292
01:15:28,080 --> 01:15:29,880
Speaker 1: That's the kind of stuff that gets like left out

1293
01:15:29,880 --> 01:15:33,439
Speaker 1: of history too much, too rights. These contributions like and

1294
01:15:33,479 --> 01:15:36,120
Speaker 1: these like developments that come from political articles that are

1295
01:15:36,160 --> 01:15:41,040
Speaker 1: like not just the gun the Robert you know, or

1296
01:15:41,160 --> 01:15:46,240
Speaker 1: the you know, season of workplaces, but the developing of

1297
01:15:46,400 --> 01:15:50,639
Speaker 1: art therapy for people dealing with traumatic event that rules. Yeah,

1298
01:15:50,720 --> 01:15:53,080
Speaker 1: absolutely right, Like these people made homeward bombs, but they

1299
01:15:53,120 --> 01:15:56,639
Speaker 1: also made it easier for kids to process their trauma

1300
01:15:56,960 --> 01:16:02,960
Speaker 1: and like that's what anarchism is, folks. But yeah, Jenny Burman,

1301
01:16:03,320 --> 01:16:09,519
Speaker 1: they hyphenated their last names Berman Chaken, uh yeah, advanced, Yeah,

1302
01:16:09,600 --> 01:16:15,040
Speaker 1: highly progressive. Yeah, his wife Jenny was definitely the radical

1303
01:16:15,280 --> 01:16:17,160
Speaker 1: and she she sort of brought him on and he

1304
01:16:17,200 --> 01:16:19,680
Speaker 1: was like, yeah, fucking you got it. So yeah, he

1305
01:16:19,680 --> 01:16:22,960
Speaker 1: goes back. You can see the pictures at UCSD. They're

1306
01:16:23,000 --> 01:16:27,040
Speaker 1: online too. But Al dies in a sort of chaotic

1307
01:16:27,040 --> 01:16:30,240
Speaker 1: retreat to the International Brigade. No one knows where. Right,

1308
01:16:30,400 --> 01:16:32,519
Speaker 1: I'm trying to write a book about him, have some

1309
01:16:32,600 --> 01:16:35,960
Speaker 1: of his diaries. Just an inspirational guy in a lot

1310
01:16:36,000 --> 01:16:39,000
Speaker 1: of ways, very nice guy. He's also like he sort

1311
01:16:39,000 --> 01:16:42,680
Speaker 1: of draws a lot of disdain from the other passengers

1312
01:16:42,720 --> 01:16:46,040
Speaker 1: on the boat when they're crossing the first time, because

1313
01:16:46,040 --> 01:16:48,200
Speaker 1: the passages keep getting mad that the black folks and

1314
01:16:48,240 --> 01:16:49,800
Speaker 1: the white folks are eating at the same table at

1315
01:16:49,800 --> 01:16:53,400
Speaker 1: dinner from the popular Olympics team, and he's just like

1316
01:16:53,479 --> 01:16:55,400
Speaker 1: super mad at this and like why would you be

1317
01:16:55,439 --> 01:16:57,920
Speaker 1: that way? So it just keeps like getting And he

1318
01:16:58,080 --> 01:17:01,840
Speaker 1: is a wrestler, right, He's a collegiate wrestler. He at

1319
01:17:01,880 --> 01:17:04,880
Speaker 1: Olympic trials, just keeps getting in people's faces about it.

1320
01:17:04,920 --> 01:17:10,280
Speaker 1: I guess, which like, yeah, is I guess being an

1321
01:17:10,280 --> 01:17:16,160
Speaker 1: ally or something. But yes, Jenny Berman is in there's

1322
01:17:16,200 --> 01:17:19,639
Speaker 1: a film called The Good Fight, which is about the

1323
01:17:19,680 --> 01:17:22,519
Speaker 1: American volunteers, and you can see her talking about him. Cool,

1324
01:17:23,160 --> 01:17:26,519
Speaker 1: and yeah, I think it's it's obviously pretty difficult experience

1325
01:17:26,520 --> 01:17:30,040
Speaker 1: for her talking about him, but I'm sure the whole

1326
01:17:30,040 --> 01:17:33,400
Speaker 1: thing it's pretty rough, given you know, the things that

1327
01:17:33,479 --> 01:17:37,320
Speaker 1: happened afterwards. But yeah, again, I'm a wonderful person. She's

1328
01:17:37,320 --> 01:17:39,880
Speaker 1: passed away now. But yeah, actually it's it's the interview.

1329
01:17:39,920 --> 01:17:41,920
Speaker 1: It's the full interview with her that I'm waiting for

1330
01:17:41,960 --> 01:17:44,720
Speaker 1: us I can write about him, and yes, she does.

1331
01:17:45,240 --> 01:17:47,519
Speaker 1: Look at The Good Fight. It's a good film. So

1332
01:17:47,560 --> 01:17:51,559
Speaker 1: on the twenty July, the anarchists are assembling outside these barracks. Right,

1333
01:17:52,600 --> 01:17:54,080
Speaker 1: they had to support of the police, but I didn't

1334
01:17:54,080 --> 01:17:58,519
Speaker 1: want it anymore, and so they assembled their own troops instead, right,

1335
01:17:59,080 --> 01:18:05,240
Speaker 1: Gati Olivier, Abat de Sanio, Lascasso and anesome Chad Shit,

1336
01:18:05,960 --> 01:18:09,240
Speaker 1: and they do what the anarchists did at this time,

1337
01:18:09,280 --> 01:18:12,679
Speaker 1: which is they lead a frontal charge on the barracks

1338
01:18:13,040 --> 01:18:18,519
Speaker 1: where they are still machine guns, and so they are

1339
01:18:18,760 --> 01:18:22,360
Speaker 1: brave but perhaps not tactically astute. I've read about this

1340
01:18:22,600 --> 01:18:26,559
Speaker 1: where basically one of the problems that people had, like

1341
01:18:26,640 --> 01:18:29,880
Speaker 1: strategically about the anarchists is that the anarchists in Spain

1342
01:18:29,960 --> 01:18:34,639
Speaker 1: were so uh fervent in their beliefs that they basically

1343
01:18:34,640 --> 01:18:37,280
Speaker 1: were like, hooray, soon I will be a murder and

1344
01:18:37,360 --> 01:18:40,759
Speaker 1: like all charged the machine guns and like weren't always

1345
01:18:40,760 --> 01:18:43,840
Speaker 1: the most strategic is that map to your understanding? Or

1346
01:18:44,800 --> 01:18:47,360
Speaker 1: in the early days of the civil war, they're like

1347
01:18:47,479 --> 01:18:50,200
Speaker 1: because they have been raised for decades of propaganda of

1348
01:18:50,200 --> 01:18:54,240
Speaker 1: the deed, right uh, And like propaganda of the deed

1349
01:18:54,439 --> 01:18:55,960
Speaker 1: is is saying like, you know, like you can die

1350
01:18:55,960 --> 01:18:57,799
Speaker 1: as a hero and become an example to the working

1351
01:18:57,800 --> 01:19:00,519
Speaker 1: class and you will elevate the cause. So it's close

1352
01:19:00,560 --> 01:19:03,919
Speaker 1: to martyrdom as you can get in an atheist political

1353
01:19:03,960 --> 01:19:07,960
Speaker 1: belief I think. And yes, so they would just like

1354
01:19:07,960 --> 01:19:11,840
Speaker 1: like Ascarsa Ascarso is a famous anarchist leader. Ascarso is

1355
01:19:11,840 --> 01:19:15,320
Speaker 1: a guy who dies like literally leading the charge frontly

1356
01:19:15,360 --> 01:19:18,280
Speaker 1: on a machine gun at this time, at this barracks, right,

1357
01:19:18,520 --> 01:19:21,080
Speaker 1: he dies in less than twenty four hours after the

1358
01:19:21,080 --> 01:19:24,800
Speaker 1: war started. And he's a member of this Nostos group

1359
01:19:24,920 --> 01:19:28,320
Speaker 1: with the Routine and others and Garthie Oliver, and he's

1360
01:19:28,360 --> 01:19:29,960
Speaker 1: the one who gives his name to the pistol. Right,

1361
01:19:30,000 --> 01:19:36,479
Speaker 1: So in Talassa, the CMT, the the anarchists, anarchis single

1362
01:19:36,560 --> 01:19:40,639
Speaker 1: guests take over an arms factory, taken over, the workers

1363
01:19:40,680 --> 01:19:42,800
Speaker 1: run the factory, and they start making these pistols with

1364
01:19:42,880 --> 01:19:45,640
Speaker 1: his name. It's like the only gun that is not

1365
01:19:45,880 --> 01:19:50,160
Speaker 1: in some way morally compromised. So I guess in that

1366
01:19:50,200 --> 01:19:52,000
Speaker 1: sense he goes on to kill a lot of fascists

1367
01:19:52,080 --> 01:19:55,600
Speaker 1: and yeah, but yeah, they don't want the help of

1368
01:19:55,600 --> 01:19:57,799
Speaker 1: the police, they don't want the tactical advice. The Routie

1369
01:19:57,800 --> 01:20:00,559
Speaker 1: actually later is very good at this. He had regular

1370
01:20:00,640 --> 01:20:03,439
Speaker 1: army officers embedded with his column and he listened to them,

1371
01:20:03,640 --> 01:20:05,360
Speaker 1: and that allows him to be more successful than the

1372
01:20:05,400 --> 01:20:12,559
Speaker 1: other anarchists. But yeah, here the battle cries Atlantembre, which

1373
01:20:12,600 --> 01:20:14,519
Speaker 1: is like, you know, forward, men of the c NT.

1374
01:20:15,360 --> 01:20:17,600
Speaker 1: They had women to but I guess that's not what

1375
01:20:17,680 --> 01:20:20,559
Speaker 1: they were going for. And they took the barracks along

1376
01:20:20,560 --> 01:20:24,160
Speaker 1: with thirty thousand rifles. Pretty much all of those would

1377
01:20:24,160 --> 01:20:25,800
Speaker 1: be in the hands of working people within a couple

1378
01:20:25,840 --> 01:20:29,640
Speaker 1: of days. Yeah, there's a vast like this is a

1379
01:20:29,760 --> 01:20:35,679
Speaker 1: decent slice of the Republic's weapons until they get resupplied later.

1380
01:20:35,880 --> 01:20:39,439
Speaker 1: And interestingly, like the Soviet Union and Mexico supply them,

1381
01:20:39,479 --> 01:20:42,320
Speaker 1: but they the Republican government in Madrid doesn't want people

1382
01:20:42,320 --> 01:20:46,920
Speaker 1: supplying the anarchists, so only um CZ overzor the Czech

1383
01:20:47,560 --> 01:20:51,960
Speaker 1: Gun Company are willing to elicitly violate two different arms

1384
01:20:51,960 --> 01:20:55,280
Speaker 1: embargoes to supply the anarchists. Later in the worst yeah

1385
01:20:55,720 --> 01:20:59,280
Speaker 1: based cz Yeah, maybe we can have them be the

1386
01:20:59,320 --> 01:21:03,840
Speaker 1: advert for this episode. Finally, a a solid case for

1387
01:21:03,880 --> 01:21:07,479
Speaker 1: the hammer fired arm and in in modern days they

1388
01:21:07,600 --> 01:21:13,240
Speaker 1: have to honor the legacy of c Z. Yeah. Yeah again,

1389
01:21:13,280 --> 01:21:17,160
Speaker 1: the only the only morally correct firearm to buy. Wouldn't

1390
01:21:17,200 --> 01:21:20,720
Speaker 1: have done that? Motherfucker's Nope, No, I don't see any

1391
01:21:20,720 --> 01:21:23,920
Speaker 1: glocks in an anarchist hands. Uh yeah. By thirty two

1392
01:21:23,960 --> 01:21:26,040
Speaker 1: a c P because it also killed Hitler. It's the

1393
01:21:26,040 --> 01:21:31,160
Speaker 1: most anti fascist you can you can. Hitler killed Hitler,

1394
01:21:31,240 --> 01:21:39,080
Speaker 1: but you know we don't have to go there fascist. Yeah,

1395
01:21:39,360 --> 01:21:42,960
Speaker 1: critical support to Hitler, or you could say, yeah, well,

1396
01:21:42,960 --> 01:21:47,320
Speaker 1: you know who else tried to kill Hitler? Hitler he

1397
01:21:47,400 --> 01:21:51,639
Speaker 1: did once before in nineteen three after the failed Munich putsch,

1398
01:21:52,160 --> 01:21:55,320
Speaker 1: but his friend puts the han Stengel's wife, who he

1399
01:21:55,360 --> 01:22:01,000
Speaker 1: had a crush on, from killing himself which was a mistake. Yeah, yeah,

1400
01:22:01,000 --> 01:22:03,800
Speaker 1: she let the team down. So see that's where cz

1401
01:22:04,000 --> 01:22:06,479
Speaker 1: came in, giving him an efficient way to kill himself

1402
01:22:06,760 --> 01:22:11,000
Speaker 1: with no wives around. Did have a wive around, didn't he? See? Well,

1403
01:22:11,280 --> 01:22:16,479
Speaker 1: thank you, Sez. Hitler's dead. And with that, let's go

1404
01:22:16,560 --> 01:22:21,519
Speaker 1: back to Spain Catalonia. I guess um. So the French

1405
01:22:21,560 --> 01:22:24,520
Speaker 1: Popular Olympics team left that day. They sang the International

1406
01:22:24,560 --> 01:22:26,639
Speaker 1: Aisle from the deck of their boat as they pulled

1407
01:22:26,680 --> 01:22:29,320
Speaker 1: out the port. A few days later, on the Rambler

1408
01:22:29,360 --> 01:22:32,839
Speaker 1: Parade was organized. The various nations of the Popular Olympics

1409
01:22:32,840 --> 01:22:37,559
Speaker 1: march down the street led inexplicably buy some bagpipers who

1410
01:22:37,560 --> 01:22:40,200
Speaker 1: had arrived with the British team. Hell yeah, that's another

1411
01:22:40,240 --> 01:22:45,360
Speaker 1: international bag page. Yeah yeah, yeah, why why not? I

1412
01:22:45,439 --> 01:22:48,280
Speaker 1: love that? Like, yeah, some anti fascist bagpipers had been

1413
01:22:48,320 --> 01:22:52,559
Speaker 1: recruited by this point, and they all sang the International

1414
01:22:52,640 --> 01:22:56,680
Speaker 1: in their own languages, did the race fist salute that

1415
01:22:56,720 --> 01:23:00,640
Speaker 1: would become the popular French salute. And they heard a

1416
01:23:00,680 --> 01:23:03,240
Speaker 1: speech and in the speech they were told, you've come

1417
01:23:03,280 --> 01:23:05,639
Speaker 1: for the Games, but you have remained for the greater

1418
01:23:05,720 --> 01:23:09,360
Speaker 1: front in battling in triumph. Now your task is clear.

1419
01:23:09,720 --> 01:23:11,679
Speaker 1: You'll go back to your countries and spread the word,

1420
01:23:12,320 --> 01:23:15,479
Speaker 1: the news of what you've seen in Spain. So some

1421
01:23:15,520 --> 01:23:17,639
Speaker 1: of them went back and some of them stayed. All

1422
01:23:17,640 --> 01:23:20,120
Speaker 1: in all, about two hundred of them actually uh stayed

1423
01:23:20,200 --> 01:23:23,320
Speaker 1: to fight or came back to fight. Um. Some of

1424
01:23:23,320 --> 01:23:26,680
Speaker 1: their names Bill Scott. He was an irishman who came

1425
01:23:26,720 --> 01:23:30,360
Speaker 1: for the games. He he went back and forth between

1426
01:23:30,360 --> 01:23:32,479
Speaker 1: Spain and Island. A bunch wrote in. Some wrote some

1427
01:23:32,560 --> 01:23:35,840
Speaker 1: letters to newspapers to encourage other people to join. His

1428
01:23:35,880 --> 01:23:38,160
Speaker 1: big slogan was a victory for fascism in Spain is

1429
01:23:38,160 --> 01:23:42,280
Speaker 1: a victory for fascism in Ireland. Um the that's the

1430
01:23:42,320 --> 01:23:46,120
Speaker 1: same slogan that the other side used to write. Yes,

1431
01:23:46,160 --> 01:23:49,040
Speaker 1: but the Irish volunteers who fought for the fascists were

1432
01:23:49,120 --> 01:23:55,400
Speaker 1: fucking exceptionally useless. Yeah yeah, and may have excelled more

1433
01:23:55,400 --> 01:23:57,439
Speaker 1: than Iris volunteers who fought for the anti fascists. A

1434
01:23:57,479 --> 01:24:03,920
Speaker 1: killing fascist, which I guess critical support to them. Um.

1435
01:24:04,120 --> 01:24:06,479
Speaker 1: He fights in the Battle of Madrid, Bill Scott, we

1436
01:24:06,600 --> 01:24:09,559
Speaker 1: gets shot in the neck? Or will style do they go? Robert?

1437
01:24:09,560 --> 01:24:12,040
Speaker 1: Maybe they really were sticking their next out m hm.

1438
01:24:12,680 --> 01:24:15,960
Speaker 1: And you've got Otto Bosch. Otto Bosch was a lover

1439
01:24:16,280 --> 01:24:19,680
Speaker 1: of novelists and poet Muriel Rook isiser. He was a

1440
01:24:19,680 --> 01:24:24,800
Speaker 1: cabinet maker, sprinter and literally an actual card carrying Antifa member,

1441
01:24:26,080 --> 01:24:29,439
Speaker 1: and now he was a soldier. Um, he also died.

1442
01:24:30,080 --> 01:24:31,600
Speaker 1: The sad part about this part of the war is

1443
01:24:31,640 --> 01:24:37,519
Speaker 1: everyone dies pretty quickly afterwards. Yeah, yeah, it's really sad.

1444
01:24:37,920 --> 01:24:40,800
Speaker 1: These people are, you know, as good as people came

1445
01:24:41,160 --> 01:24:43,599
Speaker 1: and they all end up dead. But let's not talk

1446
01:24:43,600 --> 01:24:46,599
Speaker 1: about that. I whant to focus on the victorious part. Okay,

1447
01:24:46,920 --> 01:24:52,160
Speaker 1: So that evening right, Ruccioli there, and about this Anthion

1448
01:24:52,439 --> 01:24:56,719
Speaker 1: go and meet with compounds. Ascaso is dead right because

1449
01:24:56,760 --> 01:25:01,000
Speaker 1: he was on his heroics nest in their monos. They're

1450
01:25:01,040 --> 01:25:04,960
Speaker 1: still covered in blood and they're still carrying their weapons

1451
01:25:04,960 --> 01:25:09,519
Speaker 1: with bitches away. One should meet with a politician. So

1452
01:25:10,720 --> 01:25:12,559
Speaker 1: he gives them this little speech and I, like some

1453
01:25:12,600 --> 01:25:15,080
Speaker 1: people say it's apocryphal. I don't really give a funk.

1454
01:25:15,080 --> 01:25:16,559
Speaker 1: I think it's nice. I'm going to read it. It's

1455
01:25:16,600 --> 01:25:19,720
Speaker 1: not very long. Um. Firstly, I must say that the

1456
01:25:19,720 --> 01:25:22,479
Speaker 1: C and T and the FI have never been treated

1457
01:25:22,479 --> 01:25:26,760
Speaker 1: as a true importance merited. You have always been halfhly persecuted.

1458
01:25:27,000 --> 01:25:29,840
Speaker 1: And I with much regret was forced by political necessity

1459
01:25:29,880 --> 01:25:32,320
Speaker 1: to oppose you, even though I always once with you.

1460
01:25:33,360 --> 01:25:36,080
Speaker 1: Today you are the masters of the city and of Catalonia,

1461
01:25:36,360 --> 01:25:39,439
Speaker 1: because you alone have conquered the fascist military. And I

1462
01:25:39,479 --> 01:25:41,240
Speaker 1: hope that you will not forget that you did not

1463
01:25:41,320 --> 01:25:43,800
Speaker 1: lack the help of the loyal members of my party.

1464
01:25:43,920 --> 01:25:47,040
Speaker 1: But you have one and orders in your power. If

1465
01:25:47,040 --> 01:25:49,400
Speaker 1: you do not need me as president of Catalonia, tell

1466
01:25:49,439 --> 01:25:51,559
Speaker 1: me now, and I will become just another soldier in

1467
01:25:51,560 --> 01:25:54,560
Speaker 1: the fight against fascism. If, on the other hand, and

1468
01:25:54,680 --> 01:25:57,080
Speaker 1: you believe that I, my party, my name, my prestige

1469
01:25:57,080 --> 01:25:59,640
Speaker 1: could be of use, then you can depend on me

1470
01:25:59,680 --> 01:26:01,559
Speaker 1: in my yalty as a man who is convinced that

1471
01:26:01,600 --> 01:26:06,080
Speaker 1: the whole past of shame is dead. So that's nice.

1472
01:26:06,360 --> 01:26:10,920
Speaker 1: That that's cool. I mean, it's yeah, interesting, you know, right,

1473
01:26:10,920 --> 01:26:13,160
Speaker 1: it's fascinating. I think it's the clearest we get to

1474
01:26:13,240 --> 01:26:15,639
Speaker 1: a person at a time, being Like in the last

1475
01:26:15,680 --> 01:26:18,360
Speaker 1: twenty four hours, I have gone from president to a

1476
01:26:18,400 --> 01:26:20,559
Speaker 1: guy who has to ask the anarchist for a rifle

1477
01:26:20,600 --> 01:26:25,599
Speaker 1: so I can fight. Yeah, And like it's a you know,

1478
01:26:25,920 --> 01:26:28,760
Speaker 1: people get on that the Lensky stuff, but this is

1479
01:26:28,800 --> 01:26:30,320
Speaker 1: kind of different. I guess you know, like it's good

1480
01:26:30,360 --> 01:26:34,479
Speaker 1: to find someone who cares about a cause more than power. Yeah.

1481
01:26:34,520 --> 01:26:37,280
Speaker 1: As a rule, if it's your job to be in

1482
01:26:37,360 --> 01:26:39,680
Speaker 1: charge of people, I'm probably not a fan of that

1483
01:26:39,840 --> 01:26:42,240
Speaker 1: job existing. But if when it comes down to it,

1484
01:26:42,800 --> 01:26:45,120
Speaker 1: you you you throw down rather than the hide in

1485
01:26:45,120 --> 01:26:47,879
Speaker 1: a bunker or flee the country to live in exile

1486
01:26:48,080 --> 01:26:51,280
Speaker 1: in I don't know, whatever friendly country, then that's better

1487
01:26:51,320 --> 01:26:56,439
Speaker 1: than the alternative. Yeah, yeah, i'd agree, And I think, yeah,

1488
01:26:56,439 --> 01:26:58,679
Speaker 1: being more attached to this and to your self preservation

1489
01:26:58,720 --> 01:27:02,040
Speaker 1: or your power, I think is admirable. M For example,

1490
01:27:02,120 --> 01:27:04,960
Speaker 1: if Joe Biden had burned down the Third Precinct himself,

1491
01:27:05,240 --> 01:27:07,200
Speaker 1: I think a lot of people would feel more positively

1492
01:27:07,240 --> 01:27:13,080
Speaker 1: towards him. He did, though we're not supposed to talk

1493
01:27:13,120 --> 01:27:14,960
Speaker 1: about this on the podcast, guys, all right, you're right,

1494
01:27:15,040 --> 01:27:19,840
Speaker 1: this is this is yeah again wraps until the midterms

1495
01:27:19,840 --> 01:27:23,760
Speaker 1: really start to heat up. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's surprisive

1496
01:27:23,840 --> 01:27:29,160
Speaker 1: video of Joe Biden with a firebomb. I was told

1497
01:27:29,160 --> 01:27:31,519
Speaker 1: that he had a kind of ax body sprain of

1498
01:27:31,600 --> 01:27:36,080
Speaker 1: lighter mm hmmm. Yeah, that's how he normally roles when

1499
01:27:36,080 --> 01:27:41,640
Speaker 1: he's in block And al right, sorry, that image is

1500
01:27:41,720 --> 01:27:45,000
Speaker 1: like so cursed that I'm like Joe Biden and Block

1501
01:27:46,520 --> 01:27:48,920
Speaker 1: doing the smile like he's in the Camaro but just

1502
01:27:49,000 --> 01:27:53,280
Speaker 1: holding the ax body spin. But everyone can figure out

1503
01:27:53,320 --> 01:27:56,000
Speaker 1: it's him because he keeps touching people and everyone is

1504
01:27:56,040 --> 01:28:01,680
Speaker 1: get sniffing everybody's hair, asking if he can smell the

1505
01:28:01,760 --> 01:28:10,599
Speaker 1: inside of their bala clavas. Uncle Joe a hero, true

1506
01:28:10,640 --> 01:28:15,679
Speaker 1: anti fascist? Are you are you going dark Brandon on us? Oh? God,

1507
01:28:16,400 --> 01:28:19,439
Speaker 1: we are. We gonna have to explain what dark bread

1508
01:28:19,479 --> 01:28:22,000
Speaker 1: it is on the pod. I don't think we need to.

1509
01:28:22,160 --> 01:28:26,000
Speaker 1: I don't think that's ever going to be irrelevant. I

1510
01:28:26,040 --> 01:28:28,320
Speaker 1: think we'll just say let's go brand. Get up, kids,

1511
01:28:28,439 --> 01:28:31,840
Speaker 1: Just type dark Brandon into your Twitter search and see

1512
01:28:31,840 --> 01:28:36,360
Speaker 1: what happened and educate yourself right now. But please get yeah,

1513
01:28:36,400 --> 01:28:38,200
Speaker 1: please do because I don't have a clue. No, I

1514
01:28:38,200 --> 01:28:40,320
Speaker 1: have no idea what they're talking about. Yeah, I'm not

1515
01:28:40,360 --> 01:28:43,599
Speaker 1: on the internet enough and I don't think I ever

1516
01:28:43,720 --> 01:28:46,759
Speaker 1: want to be um So things go differently wan across

1517
01:28:46,760 --> 01:28:50,200
Speaker 1: the country right um the Navy. I'm waiting to hear

1518
01:28:50,240 --> 01:28:56,680
Speaker 1: Margaret squeal or scream or cry. I just don't understand, Okay.

1519
01:28:57,040 --> 01:29:01,160
Speaker 1: I think it's that he's a vampire. Yes, go fucking

1520
01:29:01,200 --> 01:29:04,120
Speaker 1: go ahead, tell us about dark brand. I don't know,

1521
01:29:04,200 --> 01:29:09,760
Speaker 1: it's just weird. I don't want to know. Yeah, you

1522
01:29:09,760 --> 01:29:11,960
Speaker 1: don't need to know. It's fine, Okay, it's it's a

1523
01:29:11,960 --> 01:29:14,360
Speaker 1: good time. It's it's it's a good time on the internet.

1524
01:29:14,400 --> 01:29:17,920
Speaker 1: That's on the dark Brandon is all right. The Navy

1525
01:29:18,000 --> 01:29:21,080
Speaker 1: doesn't fall for the coup, right, and this leads to

1526
01:29:21,120 --> 01:29:29,360
Speaker 1: this spectacular exchange between the crew of Him the James,

1527
01:29:29,360 --> 01:29:32,160
Speaker 1: the first Battleship right of the Ministry of Marine, Crew

1528
01:29:32,240 --> 01:29:34,720
Speaker 1: to Ministry of Marine. We have encountered serious resistance from

1529
01:29:34,720 --> 01:29:37,840
Speaker 1: the commands and officers on board crew to Ministry of Marine.

1530
01:29:38,080 --> 01:29:41,200
Speaker 1: We have subdued them by force. Urgently request instructions as

1531
01:29:41,240 --> 01:29:45,160
Speaker 1: to bodies. Ministry to Marine to crew, lower the bodies

1532
01:29:45,240 --> 01:29:49,760
Speaker 1: overboard with respectable solemnity. What is your present position? So

1533
01:29:49,800 --> 01:29:51,800
Speaker 1: what they've done there is the officers have declared for

1534
01:29:51,840 --> 01:29:54,920
Speaker 1: the crew for the coup, and the minute the sailors

1535
01:29:55,000 --> 01:29:56,599
Speaker 1: on board the ship have killed them and throwing them

1536
01:29:56,600 --> 01:29:59,600
Speaker 1: over the edge. Subdued by force, what do we do

1537
01:29:59,640 --> 01:30:03,600
Speaker 1: with the people we have subdued? Just the most amazing

1538
01:30:03,760 --> 01:30:07,960
Speaker 1: radio message like the officers turned out to be Rudd's

1539
01:30:08,360 --> 01:30:10,439
Speaker 1: and then like, brief pause, what do you want us

1540
01:30:10,479 --> 01:30:15,760
Speaker 1: to do with their bodies? Again? King? Shit. So it's

1541
01:30:15,800 --> 01:30:18,840
Speaker 1: a few days before the battle lines really get drawn

1542
01:30:19,760 --> 01:30:23,200
Speaker 1: as to who is where, who's on what side of

1543
01:30:23,200 --> 01:30:25,000
Speaker 1: the Spanish Civil War. It's a few days before it

1544
01:30:25,000 --> 01:30:27,880
Speaker 1: becomes clear that this is a civil war because without boats,

1545
01:30:28,040 --> 01:30:30,679
Speaker 1: the rebels seemed to be in trouble, but the Fascists

1546
01:30:30,680 --> 01:30:32,320
Speaker 1: came to their abe with planes to where lift the

1547
01:30:32,360 --> 01:30:35,080
Speaker 1: troops from Africa. The Republic had more troops and more

1548
01:30:35,080 --> 01:30:36,760
Speaker 1: access to supplies, and it looked like they were going

1549
01:30:36,760 --> 01:30:39,120
Speaker 1: to win a war of attrition. That doesn't work out

1550
01:30:39,560 --> 01:30:42,519
Speaker 1: because France, the UK, and the United States abandoned Spain

1551
01:30:43,120 --> 01:30:47,120
Speaker 1: and the Fascists do not abandon Franca. I don't really

1552
01:30:47,160 --> 01:30:49,479
Speaker 1: want to finish there. I want to backtrack and think

1553
01:30:49,520 --> 01:30:52,080
Speaker 1: about how many times in the past or the present

1554
01:30:52,920 --> 01:30:56,160
Speaker 1: the working class of a city is spontaneously organized to

1555
01:30:56,200 --> 01:31:00,280
Speaker 1: prevent an army from entering that city, and it's actually

1556
01:31:00,280 --> 01:31:01,519
Speaker 1: in the age of the tank and the bomber. I

1557
01:31:01,520 --> 01:31:03,800
Speaker 1: can't already think of any and I know if you

1558
01:31:03,840 --> 01:31:06,200
Speaker 1: guys can, but I couldn't come up with one. I

1559
01:31:06,280 --> 01:31:11,200
Speaker 1: got nothing. Yeah, anyone, I mean other than Kiev kind

1560
01:31:11,200 --> 01:31:15,160
Speaker 1: of yeah, some of it was at least spontaneous, but yeah, yeah,

1561
01:31:15,280 --> 01:31:17,599
Speaker 1: and it wasn't against their own army, like they had

1562
01:31:17,600 --> 01:31:21,960
Speaker 1: an army, no, that is, yeah, I mean you could

1563
01:31:22,160 --> 01:31:24,880
Speaker 1: there are pieces of that, and it was it was

1564
01:31:24,960 --> 01:31:28,800
Speaker 1: not as organized or clearly as successful in you know,

1565
01:31:28,840 --> 01:31:34,639
Speaker 1: the Holy Week uprisings and the Watts riots and stuff. Yeah, yeah, true, yeah,

1566
01:31:34,880 --> 01:31:42,639
Speaker 1: pieces of it. Yeah, I mean even like in Minneapolis, right, like, yeah,

1567
01:31:42,840 --> 01:31:50,639
Speaker 1: where the state didn't exist for a while. But uh, this,

1568
01:31:50,640 --> 01:31:53,280
Speaker 1: this revolution is somewhat unique at least in that right.

1569
01:31:53,479 --> 01:31:58,360
Speaker 1: And what happens afterwards and what happened in the Civil

1570
01:31:58,439 --> 01:32:01,000
Speaker 1: War isn't what I want to end on. You can

1571
01:32:01,040 --> 01:32:05,200
Speaker 1: see this kind of idea in ken Loach's film Land

1572
01:32:05,240 --> 01:32:07,920
Speaker 1: and Freedom, that that this was a romantic failure, and

1573
01:32:07,960 --> 01:32:10,760
Speaker 1: I don't think that's true. I think that the the

1574
01:32:10,800 --> 01:32:13,600
Speaker 1: only way for the Civil Water succeed was doing what

1575
01:32:13,680 --> 01:32:15,760
Speaker 1: it did. For the Republic to succeed was doing what

1576
01:32:15,840 --> 01:32:17,760
Speaker 1: it did well, and what it did well with harnessing

1577
01:32:18,280 --> 01:32:21,200
Speaker 1: the enthusiasm and passion of the working class people to

1578
01:32:21,280 --> 01:32:24,200
Speaker 1: build a better world for themselves. When it became not

1579
01:32:24,280 --> 01:32:28,080
Speaker 1: worth fighting and dying for something. Then the war was

1580
01:32:28,120 --> 01:32:31,000
Speaker 1: already lost for a lot of people. Trying to mass

1581
01:32:31,040 --> 01:32:33,840
Speaker 1: behind a conventional war effort doesn't make sense when your

1582
01:32:33,920 --> 01:32:37,400
Speaker 1: enemy has every advantage in a conventional war effort. But

1583
01:32:37,520 --> 01:32:38,760
Speaker 1: I don't want to focus on that. I want to

1584
01:32:38,800 --> 01:32:42,439
Speaker 1: focus on the last week, when the cities in the

1585
01:32:42,479 --> 01:32:45,320
Speaker 1: hands of the people, when there are no cops and

1586
01:32:45,400 --> 01:32:48,280
Speaker 1: no bosses, but people go back to work as collectives,

1587
01:32:49,080 --> 01:32:51,800
Speaker 1: when there's no money, but people distribute food to people

1588
01:32:51,800 --> 01:32:54,880
Speaker 1: who need it all across Spain, and not just at

1589
01:32:54,880 --> 01:32:58,799
Speaker 1: the bar of a gun. People collectivized, the collectivizing castile,

1590
01:32:58,800 --> 01:33:02,080
Speaker 1: and the socialized industry and Lentcia And it's a remarkable

1591
01:33:02,120 --> 01:33:04,840
Speaker 1: moment in human history, and it doesn't last more than

1592
01:33:04,880 --> 01:33:08,799
Speaker 1: a year, but I think it shows us that this,

1593
01:33:08,800 --> 01:33:11,559
Speaker 1: this other future was possible. Right. The path we took

1594
01:33:11,560 --> 01:33:14,240
Speaker 1: from six to the present day was not the best one,

1595
01:33:15,160 --> 01:33:17,479
Speaker 1: but I like to think that, just for just for

1596
01:33:17,479 --> 01:33:21,679
Speaker 1: a little while, it could have done better. And and

1597
01:33:21,920 --> 01:33:23,479
Speaker 1: I think that's where I want to end really, is

1598
01:33:23,479 --> 01:33:28,559
Speaker 1: thinking about how we could do better. And if people

1599
01:33:28,600 --> 01:33:31,320
Speaker 1: want to read books, Sister has already been a long episode,

1600
01:33:31,360 --> 01:33:36,440
Speaker 1: I will say Helen Graham's very short introduction is very good. Um.

1601
01:33:36,479 --> 01:33:38,720
Speaker 1: Anthony Beavo's newer book is good, and you can get

1602
01:33:38,720 --> 01:33:42,599
Speaker 1: an audiobook. Julian Casa Nova. It's one of my favorite

1603
01:33:42,600 --> 01:33:44,760
Speaker 1: writers in Spanish and some of his stuff is translated

1604
01:33:44,760 --> 01:33:49,559
Speaker 1: into English. Augustine Giarmad's book Ready for the Revolution on

1605
01:33:50,560 --> 01:33:52,960
Speaker 1: the affinity groups of the CNT and and Chris ellen

1606
01:33:53,040 --> 01:33:57,240
Speaker 1: stuff on Barcelona is excellent. And if you're in Barcelona,

1607
01:33:57,479 --> 01:34:01,400
Speaker 1: Nick Lloyd's Walking Towards are excellent. Yeah, that's hope. That's

1608
01:34:01,479 --> 01:34:04,160
Speaker 1: enough there. You can watch kind of loches film. You

1609
01:34:04,200 --> 01:34:07,200
Speaker 1: can watch I think it's called Parallel Mothers. That's on Netflix.

1610
01:34:07,760 --> 01:34:11,120
Speaker 1: A couple of good films. Yeah, thank you so much,

1611
01:34:11,280 --> 01:34:15,519
Speaker 1: Margaret again for joining me too, and hem me drone

1612
01:34:15,520 --> 01:34:18,000
Speaker 1: on about the Spanish Civil War for an hour and

1613
01:34:18,880 --> 01:34:22,040
Speaker 1: I'm into it. I didn't know, well, I I've only

1614
01:34:22,080 --> 01:34:25,960
Speaker 1: been learning the details more recently, you know, I've always

1615
01:34:26,000 --> 01:34:29,360
Speaker 1: just heard about it in in broad strokes and the like.

1616
01:34:30,880 --> 01:34:32,439
Speaker 1: You know, a lot of people like talking about what

1617
01:34:32,479 --> 01:34:35,040
Speaker 1: it means, right, But talking about what it means is cool.

1618
01:34:35,520 --> 01:34:37,400
Speaker 1: But the stuff that's like really interesting to me is

1619
01:34:37,400 --> 01:34:42,280
Speaker 1: the stuff that actually like makes it matter is the

1620
01:34:42,280 --> 01:34:45,840
Speaker 1: the person who shows up and you know, develops ways

1621
01:34:45,880 --> 01:34:49,599
Speaker 1: to deal with trauma by art therapy. And the people

1622
01:34:49,640 --> 01:34:56,160
Speaker 1: who bravely steal dynamite and become named named Rosa the Dynamite.

1623
01:34:56,280 --> 01:34:59,920
Speaker 1: What was what was her name? Yeah? Yeah, she los

1624
01:35:00,160 --> 01:35:02,200
Speaker 1: the hand. Yeah, it's better than Rose of the Riveter.

1625
01:35:02,320 --> 01:35:05,400
Speaker 1: I mean, no offense the Rose of the Riveter. But

1626
01:35:05,560 --> 01:35:10,599
Speaker 1: Rose of the Dynamiter is is is doing well? Um?

1627
01:35:10,680 --> 01:35:15,160
Speaker 1: What was it called? Dynamiter? Go after all of the libraries,

1628
01:35:15,280 --> 01:35:21,679
Speaker 1: keeping the books in prison free knowledge keepers of thought.

1629
01:35:22,840 --> 01:35:28,000
Speaker 1: I really like variants taken away get canceled, but I

1630
01:35:28,120 --> 01:35:32,679
Speaker 1: like libraries and librarians. You all aren't ready for this discourse, Margaret,

1631
01:35:32,720 --> 01:35:43,400
Speaker 1: But librarial comblematic. That's how we know you're a CIA

1632
01:35:43,520 --> 01:35:49,200
Speaker 1: asset because your pro library style. Yeah, exactly, classic capitalist infrastructure.

1633
01:35:49,320 --> 01:35:51,560
Speaker 1: What where did the CIA train all those people to

1634
01:35:51,640 --> 01:35:54,400
Speaker 1: overthrow governments? The School of the America's what does every

1635
01:35:54,400 --> 01:35:58,720
Speaker 1: school have library? Libraries? Is the problem because that's the

1636
01:35:58,720 --> 01:36:01,120
Speaker 1: School of America's is there's two things wrong with School

1637
01:36:01,120 --> 01:36:07,400
Speaker 1: of America's school and Americas. The problem is the school part.

1638
01:36:07,600 --> 01:36:10,240
Speaker 1: I think the real problem is School of the Americas

1639
01:36:10,280 --> 01:36:14,439
Speaker 1: that had school in the Dame and We can't have that.

1640
01:36:14,439 --> 01:36:18,000
Speaker 1: That is, that's an opressive, hierarchical system of learning. Unbelievable.

1641
01:36:18,400 --> 01:36:21,400
Speaker 1: If America Vespucci never came here, maybe things would be different,

1642
01:36:22,000 --> 01:36:27,000
Speaker 1: maybe even better. Anti Italian slander, I'm here for it. Well,

1643
01:36:27,160 --> 01:36:31,160
Speaker 1: let's all end on that note. Fuck Italy. Yeah, and

1644
01:36:31,280 --> 01:36:33,719
Speaker 1: funk traffic lights, Margaret. Do you have anything to plug?

1645
01:36:34,680 --> 01:36:37,840
Speaker 1: I do. People can get my they can pre order

1646
01:36:37,920 --> 01:36:41,840
Speaker 1: my book that is all about why traffic lights are bad. Um.

1647
01:36:41,840 --> 01:36:43,519
Speaker 1: It's called we Won't be here Tomorrow, and it's written

1648
01:36:43,520 --> 01:36:44,920
Speaker 1: from the point of view of a traffic light that no,

1649
01:36:45,040 --> 01:36:48,120
Speaker 1: it's knows it's about to be abolished. It's out from

1650
01:36:48,200 --> 01:36:51,840
Speaker 1: a k press Um who uses the red and black

1651
01:36:51,840 --> 01:36:53,840
Speaker 1: flag is the logo, and much like the anarchist in

1652
01:36:53,840 --> 01:36:56,040
Speaker 1: the Spanish Civil War who developed the red and black flag,

1653
01:36:56,200 --> 01:36:59,880
Speaker 1: which is to reference, of course, the negation of the red,

1654
01:37:00,320 --> 01:37:03,680
Speaker 1: because the red in the traffic light is what stops you, um,

1655
01:37:04,200 --> 01:37:06,200
Speaker 1: and so the black is the negation with the red

1656
01:37:06,240 --> 01:37:09,120
Speaker 1: in this in this case, and that's what happens when

1657
01:37:09,160 --> 01:37:12,760
Speaker 1: you disconnect a traffic light from power. It goes black. No,

1658
01:37:12,880 --> 01:37:15,479
Speaker 1: it's disconnecting ship, Robert. People are shooting the traffic light.

1659
01:37:15,520 --> 01:37:17,880
Speaker 1: And you know what a K Do you know what press?

1660
01:37:17,960 --> 01:37:21,200
Speaker 1: Do you know? Do you know what a k? Press? Cells?

1661
01:37:22,280 --> 01:37:25,599
Speaker 1: Books and and books? Where where do books get kept?

1662
01:37:27,720 --> 01:37:31,840
Speaker 1: That's right, that's right, it's all. It's your everyone is

1663
01:37:31,840 --> 01:37:33,400
Speaker 1: in on it. Okay. Well, if you don't want to

1664
01:37:33,439 --> 01:37:35,559
Speaker 1: be part of the evil world, you can do what

1665
01:37:35,960 --> 01:37:38,559
Speaker 1: is clearly good, which is listened to podcasts and create

1666
01:37:38,560 --> 01:37:43,160
Speaker 1: para of social relationships. Yes, the proletic medium of podcasting.

1667
01:37:43,360 --> 01:37:45,520
Speaker 1: And if you want to create a para social relationship

1668
01:37:45,560 --> 01:37:48,680
Speaker 1: with me, you can listen to my podcasts, one of

1669
01:37:48,720 --> 01:37:50,439
Speaker 1: which is called Live Like the World Is Dying. It's

1670
01:37:50,439 --> 01:37:54,240
Speaker 1: an individual and community preparedness podcast. And the other one

1671
01:37:54,400 --> 01:37:56,240
Speaker 1: is called Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff, which is

1672
01:37:56,280 --> 01:38:00,360
Speaker 1: all about people who defend libraries from people like you,

1673
01:38:01,120 --> 01:38:08,240
Speaker 1: um and anti anti learning, nihilist radicals. Yeah, anti lib reaction.

1674
01:38:08,720 --> 01:38:14,639
Speaker 1: That's right. That's right. That's it. That's that's what that

1675
01:38:14,640 --> 01:38:19,120
Speaker 1: that is why I fly the black and gray. I'll

1676
01:38:19,160 --> 01:38:25,880
Speaker 1: just watching alight, alright, Thank you wants to make me

1677
01:38:25,960 --> 01:38:28,280
Speaker 1: an an arccho goth flag that was black and then

1678
01:38:28,320 --> 01:38:35,200
Speaker 1: black lace. That's great, Thanks for I would fly that

1679
01:38:35,640 --> 01:38:38,559
Speaker 1: al right, Well, thank you for listening. James. Where can

1680
01:38:38,560 --> 01:38:42,080
Speaker 1: people find you online? I'm on the internet. You can

1681
01:38:42,120 --> 01:38:45,880
Speaker 1: just put in my name at James Stout on Twitter. Um.

1682
01:38:46,400 --> 01:38:50,360
Speaker 1: Sometimes I write things I will talk about in there. Great,

1683
01:38:50,439 --> 01:38:52,120
Speaker 1: well you can find me at I right, Okay, you

1684
01:38:52,120 --> 01:38:55,800
Speaker 1: can follow the show on by cool Stone Media and

1685
01:38:55,800 --> 01:38:59,320
Speaker 1: happened here pod and send any complaints to at Sorry

1686
01:38:59,400 --> 01:39:07,280
Speaker 1: no send no, send any complaints to. Okay, Yeah, it's okay.

1687
01:39:07,320 --> 01:39:26,760
Speaker 1: I don't read responses. Bye bye, bye, bye bye. It

1688
01:39:26,800 --> 01:39:30,559
Speaker 1: could happen here is the podcast that This is where

1689
01:39:30,600 --> 01:39:35,000
Speaker 1: we talk about things that are happening here. Generally things

1690
01:39:35,280 --> 01:39:39,519
Speaker 1: fallen apart um, sometimes things getting put back together. Today

1691
01:39:39,800 --> 01:39:42,000
Speaker 1: we have a story that I wasn't sure if we

1692
01:39:42,000 --> 01:39:44,760
Speaker 1: were ever going to cover. Um. In brief, we're going

1693
01:39:44,800 --> 01:39:48,040
Speaker 1: to be talking about a group called Black Hammer that

1694
01:39:48,240 --> 01:39:55,200
Speaker 1: is on its surface a leftist anti colonial political organization UM,

1695
01:39:55,240 --> 01:39:57,840
Speaker 1: and in reality is more or less occult. Um. The

1696
01:39:57,880 --> 01:40:01,120
Speaker 1: reason we're talking about them is that at someone is

1697
01:40:01,160 --> 01:40:06,240
Speaker 1: now dead connected with them. The story is interesting and

1698
01:40:06,320 --> 01:40:09,759
Speaker 1: messy and says a lot about the way social media

1699
01:40:09,800 --> 01:40:13,040
Speaker 1: works today and the way that the United States is

1700
01:40:13,120 --> 01:40:16,080
Speaker 1: essentially like forty different cults in a trench coat. UM.

1701
01:40:16,160 --> 01:40:19,640
Speaker 1: So uh, today, I'm here with James Stout and we

1702
01:40:19,680 --> 01:40:24,640
Speaker 1: are talking with journalist W. F. Thomas. H. Thomas? What

1703
01:40:24,680 --> 01:40:26,240
Speaker 1: do you? What do you? What do you? What do you? How?

1704
01:40:26,400 --> 01:40:34,040
Speaker 1: How are you doing today? Uh? Today is a day. Um,

1705
01:40:34,040 --> 01:40:41,040
Speaker 1: this story is stuff is still coming out. About an

1706
01:40:41,040 --> 01:40:50,840
Speaker 1: hour ago, charges were finally posted, um for the cult leader. Um,

1707
01:40:50,880 --> 01:40:55,200
Speaker 1: but that's further a long Yeah the story. You hear

1708
01:40:55,360 --> 01:40:58,600
Speaker 1: chirping in the background, those are for live chickens. So

1709
01:40:58,720 --> 01:41:02,559
Speaker 1: my apologies a little babies. I just got rabbits that

1710
01:41:02,640 --> 01:41:06,760
Speaker 1: I have now living in my my chicken facility, and

1711
01:41:06,800 --> 01:41:09,559
Speaker 1: they seem to be thriving. It's nice. I like having

1712
01:41:10,280 --> 01:41:14,000
Speaker 1: little animals around all right, So who are Black Hammer

1713
01:41:14,840 --> 01:41:19,240
Speaker 1: and how did how did they get to the present position?

1714
01:41:19,320 --> 01:41:23,000
Speaker 1: So I think we should probably start with like nineteen right,

1715
01:41:23,080 --> 01:41:25,200
Speaker 1: is kind of when these these folks sort of start

1716
01:41:25,280 --> 01:41:31,640
Speaker 1: to come on the scene. Yeah, Um, you know you

1717
01:41:31,680 --> 01:41:38,640
Speaker 1: could take this story back a lot further. Let's do that. Um.

1718
01:41:38,720 --> 01:41:45,679
Speaker 1: So sometime in the late eighties, Um, Augustus Romaine Jr.

1719
01:41:45,760 --> 01:41:49,760
Speaker 1: Is born. Um, this is the person we're commonly known

1720
01:41:49,880 --> 01:41:57,960
Speaker 1: as Gazikazo. Um. They used they then pronouns too. Would

1721
01:41:57,960 --> 01:42:01,760
Speaker 1: go on to be the leader of this group. Um.

1722
01:42:01,920 --> 01:42:06,599
Speaker 1: You know Caso grew up in Stone Mountain outside of Atlanta. UM,

1723
01:42:06,680 --> 01:42:10,080
Speaker 1: and in the early tens had kind of a lifestyle

1724
01:42:10,080 --> 01:42:14,280
Speaker 1: blogger YouTube thing going on. Um was a self professed

1725
01:42:14,360 --> 01:42:18,799
Speaker 1: Cosmos biggest fan, and generally seemed like they were trying

1726
01:42:18,800 --> 01:42:22,680
Speaker 1: to get famous. Yeah, like influencers style famous. Right, this

1727
01:42:22,760 --> 01:42:26,960
Speaker 1: was not at all political at this period. Yeah. And UM,

1728
01:42:27,000 --> 01:42:29,080
Speaker 1: that's gonna be kind of the red thread through this

1729
01:42:29,160 --> 01:42:33,360
Speaker 1: story is Caso. I'm gonna refer to them as Caso.

1730
01:42:33,760 --> 01:42:36,679
Speaker 1: I guess this remained junior. Um. Wanting to be famous

1731
01:42:36,800 --> 01:42:42,360
Speaker 1: is kind of, unfortunately the main thing that drives most

1732
01:42:42,360 --> 01:42:46,479
Speaker 1: of what has happened. Um. At some point, you know,

1733
01:42:46,560 --> 01:42:52,000
Speaker 1: in the mid um, Cardso took this turn and started

1734
01:42:52,040 --> 01:42:56,439
Speaker 1: making more incendiary videos. UM. I don't have them directly

1735
01:42:56,439 --> 01:43:01,040
Speaker 1: in front of me, so I don't want to misquote them. Um,

1736
01:43:01,080 --> 01:43:04,400
Speaker 1: but kind of like going out pushing this concept like

1737
01:43:04,400 --> 01:43:10,120
Speaker 1: white people are evil, going for this very specific type

1738
01:43:10,720 --> 01:43:16,120
Speaker 1: of leftism, and um Ghazi Caaso gets taken taken under

1739
01:43:16,160 --> 01:43:18,360
Speaker 1: the wing of and I'm going to mispronounce this name,

1740
01:43:19,080 --> 01:43:24,040
Speaker 1: uh O'Malley, Yes should tell um. And this is a

1741
01:43:24,080 --> 01:43:26,639
Speaker 1: person who is leading a group in St. Petersburg, Florida

1742
01:43:27,160 --> 01:43:32,200
Speaker 1: called the African People's Socialist Party UM and Africans People

1743
01:43:32,280 --> 01:43:35,160
Speaker 1: Socialist Party. It was part of this larger thing called

1744
01:43:35,200 --> 01:43:39,719
Speaker 1: the Huru Solidarity Movement. I don't know if they're still around,

1745
01:43:39,720 --> 01:43:44,960
Speaker 1: but you know their their ideology was third world communism,

1746
01:43:45,000 --> 01:43:50,200
Speaker 1: African internationalism, that type of thing. And what is Let's

1747
01:43:50,240 --> 01:43:52,160
Speaker 1: talk a little bit about the word of Huru, because

1748
01:43:52,200 --> 01:43:54,479
Speaker 1: that's something if you if you've ever been in and

1749
01:43:54,520 --> 01:43:58,120
Speaker 1: around Proud Boys. First off, I'm sorry, it's not a

1750
01:43:58,120 --> 01:44:00,880
Speaker 1: fun experience generally, but they they like to shout at

1751
01:44:00,920 --> 01:44:04,320
Speaker 1: huru um. And I understand that that's kind of related

1752
01:44:04,400 --> 01:44:07,719
Speaker 1: one way or they outed the other to this. Yeah,

1753
01:44:07,960 --> 01:44:10,800
Speaker 1: so um, I don't have it directly in front of

1754
01:44:10,840 --> 01:44:14,800
Speaker 1: me what or whuru means. But you know the reason

1755
01:44:15,000 --> 01:44:18,599
Speaker 1: help ways say that is because of Gazi Cazo. There

1756
01:44:18,600 --> 01:44:23,720
Speaker 1: are times several times when Caso spoke made appearances with

1757
01:44:23,800 --> 01:44:30,160
Speaker 1: Gavin Mcinness, founder of the Proud Boys, and Cazo generally

1758
01:44:30,360 --> 01:44:34,360
Speaker 1: became and still is treated as a loll cow um

1759
01:44:34,439 --> 01:44:38,439
Speaker 1: kind of this target for derision to poke at to

1760
01:44:38,479 --> 01:44:41,759
Speaker 1: see what is this person doing, which is still happening

1761
01:44:41,800 --> 01:44:47,080
Speaker 1: right now. Unfortunately, UM. You know, Caso rose through the

1762
01:44:47,120 --> 01:44:52,200
Speaker 1: ranks of this group UM and then eventually found out

1763
01:44:52,240 --> 01:44:58,639
Speaker 1: that this is basically a cult. The African People's Socialist

1764
01:44:58,640 --> 01:45:05,320
Speaker 1: Party UM had a specific focus on membership from colonized people,

1765
01:45:05,360 --> 01:45:09,080
Speaker 1: people of color UM, but it turns out this was

1766
01:45:09,880 --> 01:45:12,920
Speaker 1: being steered entirely by a group of white people. So

1767
01:45:13,800 --> 01:45:17,919
Speaker 1: it's out of the ashes of this experience, this abusive

1768
01:45:17,960 --> 01:45:22,040
Speaker 1: experience UM, this Coli group, Corso along with some other

1769
01:45:22,280 --> 01:45:24,920
Speaker 1: people leave this group and they go onto for a

1770
01:45:24,960 --> 01:45:28,560
Speaker 1: Black Hammer in February of two thousand nineteen, which the

1771
01:45:28,640 --> 01:45:32,439
Speaker 1: originally was the Black Hammer Organization UM. And there's some

1772
01:45:32,479 --> 01:45:39,519
Speaker 1: really good write ups, especially read Voice. Definitely recommend that,

1773
01:45:40,680 --> 01:45:43,160
Speaker 1: and there are I think you broke out for a second.

1774
01:45:43,160 --> 01:45:45,160
Speaker 1: So the title of that article is the Devil Wears

1775
01:45:45,160 --> 01:45:48,439
Speaker 1: a Dashiki. It's like six seven parts, but it's really

1776
01:45:48,479 --> 01:45:51,120
Speaker 1: good comprehence and that gets into a lot of what

1777
01:45:51,240 --> 01:45:53,960
Speaker 1: that's where I get a lot of this information from UM,

1778
01:45:54,000 --> 01:45:57,800
Speaker 1: and there were Additionally, what would happen is some of

1779
01:45:57,840 --> 01:46:01,280
Speaker 1: these people who founded this grew Black Hammer Organization, who

1780
01:46:01,280 --> 01:46:06,640
Speaker 1: are also parts of the African People's Socialist Party UM

1781
01:46:06,800 --> 01:46:11,040
Speaker 1: would disavow GHAZI Kadza would disabout Black Hammer and have

1782
01:46:11,120 --> 01:46:14,040
Speaker 1: kind of their own statement about here's what happened, you know,

1783
01:46:14,080 --> 01:46:16,640
Speaker 1: and which they say, Hey, we never recovered from this

1784
01:46:16,760 --> 01:46:19,559
Speaker 1: experience in this traumatic group, in this cult like group,

1785
01:46:19,760 --> 01:46:22,160
Speaker 1: and instead of went on to found this new one,

1786
01:46:22,200 --> 01:46:25,320
Speaker 1: and we're very you know, it was kind of failed

1787
01:46:25,320 --> 01:46:29,360
Speaker 1: from the start to become this other cult like group.

1788
01:46:33,439 --> 01:46:36,880
Speaker 1: So just to clarify on the hurry thing that it

1789
01:46:37,000 --> 01:46:41,519
Speaker 1: comes from the African People's Socialist Party, right, and then

1790
01:46:41,600 --> 01:46:43,960
Speaker 1: he's they have taken it and run with it in

1791
01:46:44,080 --> 01:46:50,160
Speaker 1: the Black Hammer organization. So the African People's Socialist Party

1792
01:46:50,160 --> 01:46:52,160
Speaker 1: was part of this umbrella or group called the Who

1793
01:46:52,360 --> 01:46:56,920
Speaker 1: Solidarity Movement. This group is still around if you look

1794
01:46:56,960 --> 01:47:00,320
Speaker 1: at like the Channel five with Andrew Callen and has

1795
01:47:00,320 --> 01:47:02,360
Speaker 1: a video where they go to this march for reparations,

1796
01:47:02,560 --> 01:47:05,400
Speaker 1: and that group is the Huger Solidarity Movement. Got it,

1797
01:47:05,560 --> 01:47:10,559
Speaker 1: Okay if you're familiar with that. Yeah, so we get

1798
01:47:10,600 --> 01:47:15,880
Speaker 1: this organization founded and kind of from what my perusal

1799
01:47:16,040 --> 01:47:18,040
Speaker 1: of because I've also you can go to their website,

1800
01:47:18,080 --> 01:47:22,200
Speaker 1: Black Hammer has like a news site. Um, they are

1801
01:47:22,240 --> 01:47:25,280
Speaker 1: kind of building uh oh yeah, yeah, they're they're kind

1802
01:47:25,320 --> 01:47:32,120
Speaker 1: of for now Yeah. They bill themselves as like an

1803
01:47:32,160 --> 01:47:37,559
Speaker 1: anti colonial organization that is specifically like um, like one

1804
01:47:37,600 --> 01:47:39,639
Speaker 1: of the things they do is they have like a

1805
01:47:39,640 --> 01:47:42,320
Speaker 1: white people's auxiliary that like is for the purpose of

1806
01:47:42,320 --> 01:47:46,960
Speaker 1: people paying reparations. Um. They have. You know, they carried

1807
01:47:46,960 --> 01:47:51,040
Speaker 1: out a couple of actual direct actions during including like

1808
01:47:51,120 --> 01:47:54,880
Speaker 1: handing out masks and whatnot. Um, but for the most

1809
01:47:54,920 --> 01:47:59,000
Speaker 1: part they seem to exist primarily to drive attention to

1810
01:47:59,120 --> 01:48:03,920
Speaker 1: themselves and thus donations via social media. And yeah, that

1811
01:48:04,080 --> 01:48:07,280
Speaker 1: that's that's I think if you've if you've personally interacted

1812
01:48:07,280 --> 01:48:10,599
Speaker 1: with Blackhammer propaganda at all, it is probably because you've

1813
01:48:10,640 --> 01:48:13,080
Speaker 1: seen someone on the internet talking about how Anne Frank

1814
01:48:14,000 --> 01:48:17,840
Speaker 1: is a Karen or something like that. Let's get into it. Yeah,

1815
01:48:17,920 --> 01:48:20,920
Speaker 1: let's talk about that. Yeah. Yeah. So, so I want

1816
01:48:20,920 --> 01:48:23,640
Speaker 1: to touch on something real quick that you mentioned, you know,

1817
01:48:23,840 --> 01:48:27,080
Speaker 1: in these comments from the people who found the organation,

1818
01:48:27,160 --> 01:48:30,880
Speaker 1: left the organization, these were these are still true believers

1819
01:48:30,960 --> 01:48:33,960
Speaker 1: who believe in this cause of de colonialization of African

1820
01:48:34,000 --> 01:48:38,000
Speaker 1: internationalism and who do want to build a better world

1821
01:48:38,160 --> 01:48:41,840
Speaker 1: and do good things. Um. You know, in talking with

1822
01:48:42,040 --> 01:48:44,839
Speaker 1: people have survived the cold, it sounds like Causo probably

1823
01:48:44,880 --> 01:48:47,200
Speaker 1: never was a true believer, but there weren't true believers

1824
01:48:47,840 --> 01:48:51,400
Speaker 1: around Causo who believed in this cause. Um and because

1825
01:48:51,400 --> 01:48:55,479
Speaker 1: about we're able to be abused, to be profoundly abused

1826
01:48:56,280 --> 01:49:00,439
Speaker 1: by Carso and the people working directly under Carso pozos

1827
01:49:00,960 --> 01:49:08,519
Speaker 1: behest um So April in a tweet, I believe uh,

1828
01:49:08,720 --> 01:49:12,200
Speaker 1: Caoso calls, and Frank Becky follows it up by how

1829
01:49:12,280 --> 01:49:18,600
Speaker 1: she's a Karen, which one is a ridiculous statement, two

1830
01:49:19,439 --> 01:49:24,080
Speaker 1: is entirely meant to cause this kind of uproar around that,

1831
01:49:24,160 --> 01:49:28,520
Speaker 1: you know. Um. Back at this time, there was acceptance

1832
01:49:28,560 --> 01:49:32,519
Speaker 1: of the Black Hammer organization in leftist circles, in that

1833
01:49:32,600 --> 01:49:39,639
Speaker 1: kind of online communist community, um, and there were people

1834
01:49:39,640 --> 01:49:41,920
Speaker 1: who came out kind of like, oh no, let's hear

1835
01:49:41,960 --> 01:49:45,920
Speaker 1: what they're saying about this, you know, talking about how victims.

1836
01:49:45,960 --> 01:49:50,680
Speaker 1: You know, the term genocide was invented to describe the Holocaust,

1837
01:49:50,840 --> 01:49:54,840
Speaker 1: but that term wasn't used to describe slavery that kind

1838
01:49:54,840 --> 01:49:57,800
Speaker 1: of thing, which, to be clear, is not the conversation

1839
01:49:57,840 --> 01:50:00,680
Speaker 1: that Caoso was trying to have. That was not, and

1840
01:50:00,720 --> 01:50:03,479
Speaker 1: that is a worthwhile conversation to have. Is like why,

1841
01:50:03,680 --> 01:50:07,920
Speaker 1: you know, like why is that not? Why is the

1842
01:50:07,920 --> 01:50:10,200
Speaker 1: the enslavement and like mass murder of a huge number

1843
01:50:10,240 --> 01:50:12,240
Speaker 1: of African people not seen as an act of genocide.

1844
01:50:12,320 --> 01:50:15,880
Speaker 1: Certainly a valid conversation to have, but also should not

1845
01:50:15,960 --> 01:50:19,200
Speaker 1: at all intersect with Anne Frank or how we think

1846
01:50:19,200 --> 01:50:25,360
Speaker 1: about the Holocaust. Yeah, and because we're living in hell. Yeah,

1847
01:50:25,560 --> 01:50:28,760
Speaker 1: this fake you know, kind of propped up, not a

1848
01:50:28,800 --> 01:50:31,960
Speaker 1: real discussion. It's meant to just piss people off. Is

1849
01:50:32,040 --> 01:50:36,880
Speaker 1: back again. Oh good, what a great time. Yeah. Based

1850
01:50:36,880 --> 01:50:39,360
Speaker 1: on documents that have come out that are purported to

1851
01:50:39,520 --> 01:50:43,400
Speaker 1: be from internal Black Hammer documents, this is part of

1852
01:50:44,040 --> 01:50:49,439
Speaker 1: their operation Storm of White Tears, um christ which was

1853
01:50:49,439 --> 01:50:53,280
Speaker 1: seemingly this and again I don't know for sure if

1854
01:50:53,280 --> 01:50:55,360
Speaker 1: these documents are from them, but these documents that are

1855
01:50:55,360 --> 01:50:58,320
Speaker 1: purported to be from block Hammer UM lay out this

1856
01:50:58,400 --> 01:51:06,000
Speaker 1: strategy to cause division two, kind of bring other groups down,

1857
01:51:06,040 --> 01:51:10,040
Speaker 1: to elevate Blackhammer's own status by putting themselves as the

1858
01:51:10,080 --> 01:51:13,600
Speaker 1: center of attention in all of this that is happening UM,

1859
01:51:13,640 --> 01:51:19,320
Speaker 1: in this online fiasco UM. Because again, the ideology is

1860
01:51:19,360 --> 01:51:22,799
Speaker 1: not the point. The attention is the point. The control

1861
01:51:23,720 --> 01:51:27,760
Speaker 1: is the point. Along this way, there's there's you know,

1862
01:51:28,000 --> 01:51:31,519
Speaker 1: there are a lot of allegations out there there are

1863
01:51:31,560 --> 01:51:37,080
Speaker 1: you know, for example, allegations that false, false allegations of

1864
01:51:37,120 --> 01:51:39,800
Speaker 1: pedophilia and sexual assault were used against people who left

1865
01:51:39,840 --> 01:51:42,960
Speaker 1: the group, people who spoke out against the group, that

1866
01:51:43,280 --> 01:51:50,960
Speaker 1: they were recruiting people on tinder. Um. Yeah, So along

1867
01:51:51,000 --> 01:51:55,240
Speaker 1: the way, some more chapters form. Um. There's one believe

1868
01:51:55,320 --> 01:51:59,120
Speaker 1: near Aurora, Colorado, or at least in Colorado. There's a

1869
01:51:59,160 --> 01:52:02,560
Speaker 1: New York City and and kind of the group continues

1870
01:52:02,640 --> 01:52:08,479
Speaker 1: to rise as almost you know, you know, your typical

1871
01:52:08,560 --> 01:52:13,519
Speaker 1: revolutionary communist cell that we have wait a few of

1872
01:52:13,640 --> 01:52:16,800
Speaker 1: in the United States going on right now. Um. The

1873
01:52:16,920 --> 01:52:20,800
Speaker 1: structure they purport to structure themselves around the tenets of

1874
01:52:21,160 --> 01:52:27,599
Speaker 1: democratic centralism as some of these other groups do, UM,

1875
01:52:27,640 --> 01:52:31,160
Speaker 1: which to dump things down a lot, and there's probably

1876
01:52:31,160 --> 01:52:35,880
Speaker 1: gonna be left is screaming at me right now. Um.

1877
01:52:36,120 --> 01:52:39,160
Speaker 1: Was this idea from Lenin where a group takes a

1878
01:52:39,240 --> 01:52:42,719
Speaker 1: vote and then if that vote passes, they all agree

1879
01:52:42,760 --> 01:52:47,400
Speaker 1: to go along with that platform with usually about UM,

1880
01:52:47,520 --> 01:52:50,439
Speaker 1: so that there's not kind of the splitting off of faction.

1881
01:52:50,600 --> 01:52:54,560
Speaker 1: So it can lead to this very centralized and hierarchical

1882
01:52:54,560 --> 01:52:59,120
Speaker 1: control structure. That's certainly what happened in Black Hammer. Um.

1883
01:52:59,160 --> 01:53:02,280
Speaker 1: There are other democratic sexualt groups that have been in

1884
01:53:02,280 --> 01:53:07,720
Speaker 1: the news lately who use a similar strategy. Um. But

1885
01:53:08,160 --> 01:53:10,559
Speaker 1: you know what this meant is it allowed gold cause

1886
01:53:11,040 --> 01:53:17,120
Speaker 1: it allowed Cadso to run this group with an iron fist. Um.

1887
01:53:17,160 --> 01:53:21,200
Speaker 1: You know, on paper, there were there was a group

1888
01:53:21,200 --> 01:53:24,559
Speaker 1: of people leading the group. Um, someone else was in

1889
01:53:24,640 --> 01:53:28,719
Speaker 1: control of the money, but in fact it was Cadso

1890
01:53:28,920 --> 01:53:34,080
Speaker 1: controlling all of this. Um. They also had you know,

1891
01:53:34,160 --> 01:53:37,880
Speaker 1: shared living spaces where members of different chapters of Black

1892
01:53:37,920 --> 01:53:45,000
Speaker 1: Hammer lived Hammer houses. Um. And that's always going to end. Well, yeah,

1893
01:53:45,400 --> 01:53:49,840
Speaker 1: don't Generally it's a good rule not to go live

1894
01:53:49,920 --> 01:53:54,000
Speaker 1: with the revolutionary cell you just joined. Yeah. If if

1895
01:53:54,240 --> 01:53:57,000
Speaker 1: you are joining a political party and they want everyone

1896
01:53:57,040 --> 01:53:59,439
Speaker 1: to live in the same space that is controlled by

1897
01:53:59,439 --> 01:54:04,800
Speaker 1: that political organization, you may in fact be joining a cult. Yeah.

1898
01:54:04,920 --> 01:54:07,280
Speaker 1: And you know there's there continues to be kind of

1899
01:54:08,160 --> 01:54:11,920
Speaker 1: trying to get more attention. At one point, you know,

1900
01:54:12,680 --> 01:54:16,760
Speaker 1: Caso starts beef with a local anti fascist crew in Colorado.

1901
01:54:17,800 --> 01:54:20,920
Speaker 1: You know, another thing to mention about this group is

1902
01:54:21,160 --> 01:54:23,479
Speaker 1: it's a lot of queer people in the group. You know,

1903
01:54:24,000 --> 01:54:28,360
Speaker 1: Gauzi identifies as non binary. There are you know, several

1904
01:54:28,640 --> 01:54:32,200
Speaker 1: many members who love people of the same sex. And

1905
01:54:32,760 --> 01:54:35,840
Speaker 1: you know, one of the things that happens as Gauzi

1906
01:54:36,000 --> 01:54:40,800
Speaker 1: is beefing with the local anti fascist crew. Is something

1907
01:54:40,840 --> 01:54:42,720
Speaker 1: that people are probably thinking of when they hear the

1908
01:54:42,800 --> 01:54:46,640
Speaker 1: name Gazzi Kozo. Is this bizarre video of Caso running

1909
01:54:46,640 --> 01:54:53,320
Speaker 1: around in joker makeup talking about white anarchists and anti fascists,

1910
01:54:54,440 --> 01:54:56,560
Speaker 1: which the background is actually even more funked up than

1911
01:54:56,600 --> 01:55:00,880
Speaker 1: you would I think having just heard that, UM as

1912
01:55:00,920 --> 01:55:05,400
Speaker 1: outline read voice goes into this specifically, UM, there were

1913
01:55:06,360 --> 01:55:09,120
Speaker 1: members of the group who were, you know, practitioners of

1914
01:55:09,400 --> 01:55:14,480
Speaker 1: Yoruba um, an African religion UM. And one of them

1915
01:55:14,640 --> 01:55:17,760
Speaker 1: was a trained UM. I don't know the correct term,

1916
01:55:17,760 --> 01:55:20,560
Speaker 1: so I'm just gonna say practitioner of this religion had

1917
01:55:20,600 --> 01:55:24,640
Speaker 1: gone through an education process in that that took some time. UM.

1918
01:55:24,720 --> 01:55:29,320
Speaker 1: And this video of Gazi running around and joker makeup

1919
01:55:30,080 --> 01:55:35,480
Speaker 1: was Gazi's idea too channel the DD issue and my

1920
01:55:35,520 --> 01:55:39,760
Speaker 1: apologies on mispronounced now which is a Euroba deity, you know. UM.

1921
01:55:39,840 --> 01:55:42,160
Speaker 1: And before this happened, apparently Gazi had brought this up

1922
01:55:42,160 --> 01:55:44,400
Speaker 1: to the person and the person said, that is extremely

1923
01:55:44,440 --> 01:55:50,000
Speaker 1: disrespectful of my religion. Don't do that. And Gazi did

1924
01:55:50,000 --> 01:55:53,720
Speaker 1: it anyway. Um. And this is you know, another one

1925
01:55:53,720 --> 01:55:56,520
Speaker 1: of the things where this gets sent around all the time,

1926
01:55:56,680 --> 01:55:59,480
Speaker 1: as you know, treating black Hammer as a lull cow.

1927
01:55:59,600 --> 01:56:01,600
Speaker 1: But you know, even osis was going on, there was

1928
01:56:01,640 --> 01:56:05,160
Speaker 1: this abuse that was going on as well and people

1929
01:56:05,240 --> 01:56:10,680
Speaker 1: being preyed upon by this group. Black Ham announces that

1930
01:56:10,720 --> 01:56:14,520
Speaker 1: they are planning to build Hammer City, which is supposed

1931
01:56:14,560 --> 01:56:22,080
Speaker 1: to be this utopian settlement in the Rockies. Um, you

1932
01:56:22,080 --> 01:56:24,200
Speaker 1: look like you have something you want to say. Well,

1933
01:56:24,240 --> 01:56:28,640
Speaker 1: I mean, look there, it's a perfectly normal dream to

1934
01:56:28,720 --> 01:56:32,080
Speaker 1: want to build a utopian settlement and the Rockies. There's

1935
01:56:32,080 --> 01:56:34,360
Speaker 1: some downsides to that. One of them is that the

1936
01:56:34,440 --> 01:56:37,080
Speaker 1: Rockies is actually a terrible place for a large number

1937
01:56:37,120 --> 01:56:41,200
Speaker 1: of people to live. Um. And this is why repeatedly,

1938
01:56:41,240 --> 01:56:43,720
Speaker 1: I don't know, there's been a lot of utopian settlements

1939
01:56:43,760 --> 01:56:45,920
Speaker 1: out in that part of the world, and they don't

1940
01:56:45,920 --> 01:56:49,480
Speaker 1: tend to last very long or they turn into normal towns.

1941
01:56:49,560 --> 01:56:53,560
Speaker 1: But it's it's it's always interesting when folks try, when

1942
01:56:53,560 --> 01:56:56,400
Speaker 1: folks want to do a commune type situation and then

1943
01:56:56,400 --> 01:56:58,480
Speaker 1: they immediately go for a place like that, because like

1944
01:56:58,520 --> 01:57:00,480
Speaker 1: the mountains is the hardest place to do it. If

1945
01:57:00,480 --> 01:57:05,040
Speaker 1: you want to have a self sufficient commune like fucking Kansas,

1946
01:57:05,080 --> 01:57:09,120
Speaker 1: you know, Arkansas, like somewhere where the soil is good

1947
01:57:09,160 --> 01:57:11,280
Speaker 1: for growing stuff and you can get like a flat

1948
01:57:11,320 --> 01:57:14,040
Speaker 1: track attractive land that can grow food as opposed to

1949
01:57:15,040 --> 01:57:18,680
Speaker 1: high alpine elevations where very little is gonna anyway. Whatever.

1950
01:57:18,800 --> 01:57:27,480
Speaker 1: This is compound talk, um, So yeah, there's there's If

1951
01:57:27,480 --> 01:57:30,520
Speaker 1: there's one thing you take away from this episode, don't

1952
01:57:30,520 --> 01:57:32,960
Speaker 1: build your compound in the Rockies. Don't build a compound

1953
01:57:33,000 --> 01:57:38,800
Speaker 1: in the Rockies. Look, Okay, that's all. That's all I got. Yeah,

1954
01:57:38,840 --> 01:57:41,320
Speaker 1: that's a that's a messages podcast, unless you're the tenaceous

1955
01:57:41,400 --> 01:57:44,920
Speaker 1: Unicorn Ryan, which case go right ahead. But yeah, and

1956
01:57:45,120 --> 01:57:46,920
Speaker 1: then you gotta think you know what they're doing, which

1957
01:57:47,000 --> 01:57:50,360
Speaker 1: is raising alpaca as opposed to relying on like growing crops,

1958
01:57:50,400 --> 01:57:52,920
Speaker 1: which makes a lot of sense. Yeah. I didn't actually

1959
01:57:53,000 --> 01:57:55,720
Speaker 1: see any advanced I was just looking at their at

1960
01:57:55,720 --> 01:57:59,160
Speaker 1: the Harmas City website. If they just told they just

1961
01:57:59,200 --> 01:58:04,720
Speaker 1: say sustainable farming, I can't see advanced plans. Pratt. They

1962
01:58:04,720 --> 01:58:08,800
Speaker 1: could raise a hundred and twelve thousand dollars. Yeah, according

1963
01:58:08,840 --> 01:58:11,600
Speaker 1: to their website, they raised dred and twelve thousand dollars

1964
01:58:11,600 --> 01:58:17,160
Speaker 1: so far. Okay, yeah, okay, that's more on this project. Yeah,

1965
01:58:17,560 --> 01:58:21,680
Speaker 1: really interested to know how much money they actually raised. Um,

1966
01:58:22,560 --> 01:58:24,880
Speaker 1: maybe it was that much. The point is we don't

1967
01:58:24,920 --> 01:58:27,440
Speaker 1: really know because there's no there was no kind of

1968
01:58:27,560 --> 01:58:32,160
Speaker 1: open record keeping within this group. Um. And it was

1969
01:58:32,240 --> 01:58:35,600
Speaker 1: Cazo who was in control of the money. So the

1970
01:58:36,120 --> 01:58:40,160
Speaker 1: group found land to buy, and they actually began the

1971
01:58:40,240 --> 01:58:47,200
Speaker 1: process of a land deal in early they and and

1972
01:58:47,240 --> 01:58:50,680
Speaker 1: this is some information now coming from a fantastic Colorado

1973
01:58:50,720 --> 01:58:55,160
Speaker 1: Sun article about the whole Hammer City thing um that

1974
01:58:55,200 --> 01:58:57,520
Speaker 1: I also recommend if someone wants to read more in

1975
01:58:57,560 --> 01:59:01,160
Speaker 1: depth about this. So as the landual was in the

1976
01:59:01,200 --> 01:59:04,840
Speaker 1: process of going through, a portion of the group moved

1977
01:59:04,840 --> 01:59:09,560
Speaker 1: out there. So about two dozen people this was This

1978
01:59:09,680 --> 01:59:14,160
Speaker 1: wasn't you know, it was remote, but it wasn't on

1979
01:59:14,280 --> 01:59:17,160
Speaker 1: top of a mountain. This was in a subdivision that

1980
01:59:17,240 --> 01:59:22,000
Speaker 1: had parcels for sale, which leads to some problems. And

1981
01:59:22,000 --> 01:59:25,560
Speaker 1: this this is a subdivision with the homeowners association and

1982
01:59:25,560 --> 01:59:28,320
Speaker 1: strict limits on land use as well. So they didn't

1983
01:59:28,320 --> 01:59:31,680
Speaker 1: have water rights for one thing, Yeah, exactly, they didn't

1984
01:59:31,680 --> 01:59:35,560
Speaker 1: have water rights to land. Um, which I have not

1985
01:59:35,720 --> 01:59:39,640
Speaker 1: started compound, but I imagine water rights is something you

1986
01:59:39,680 --> 01:59:41,680
Speaker 1: want to have figured out if you if you just

1987
01:59:41,760 --> 01:59:43,520
Speaker 1: want to live in a plot of land in the

1988
01:59:43,560 --> 01:59:46,440
Speaker 1: middle of nowhere, it can be fine. If you want

1989
01:59:46,440 --> 01:59:49,280
Speaker 1: to grow crops, then yeah, having the ability to irrigate

1990
01:59:49,320 --> 01:59:53,520
Speaker 1: said crops is kind of important. Yeah. So another thing

1991
01:59:53,560 --> 01:59:58,320
Speaker 1: at this time is Black Hammer tends to be a

1992
01:59:58,320 --> 02:00:01,520
Speaker 1: pretty heavily armed group. You know, the group moved out

1993
02:00:01,600 --> 02:00:04,440
Speaker 1: to this land. They were camping out. They're basically squatting

1994
02:00:04,760 --> 02:00:08,200
Speaker 1: on the land that they did not own, and brought

1995
02:00:08,240 --> 02:00:12,480
Speaker 1: their you know, armed security along with them. UM. And

1996
02:00:12,640 --> 02:00:18,000
Speaker 1: we're also like blogging road access for residents of the subdivision. UM.

1997
02:00:18,040 --> 02:00:22,880
Speaker 1: So they they had neighbors, you know, and UM. At

1998
02:00:22,920 --> 02:00:25,879
Speaker 1: one point, this leads to an altercation with a neighbor

1999
02:00:26,240 --> 02:00:30,840
Speaker 1: UM with three armed Black Hammer members UM. And a

2000
02:00:30,920 --> 02:00:35,640
Speaker 1: neighbor driving his car who you know, according to this

2001
02:00:35,640 --> 02:00:39,200
Speaker 1: Colorado Sun article, gets out with an unloaded shotgun and

2002
02:00:39,280 --> 02:00:42,720
Speaker 1: there's a standoff. This could have been one of those

2003
02:00:42,720 --> 02:00:46,600
Speaker 1: things that went really bad. It went about as good

2004
02:00:46,640 --> 02:00:49,440
Speaker 1: as you can hope a situation like that can go

2005
02:00:49,520 --> 02:00:56,200
Speaker 1: where UM, nobody got killed. UM. But while this was happening,

2006
02:00:57,160 --> 02:00:59,680
Speaker 1: the member of Black Hammer, who was responsible for the

2007
02:00:59,760 --> 02:01:03,880
Speaker 1: land deal. I forgot to sign or didn't sign the

2008
02:01:03,920 --> 02:01:08,600
Speaker 1: paperwork on time. Um and after information comes out about

2009
02:01:08,600 --> 02:01:13,280
Speaker 1: the standoff, the land deal completely falls through. There is

2010
02:01:13,320 --> 02:01:15,520
Speaker 1: no hammers to be that is going to be built

2011
02:01:16,560 --> 02:01:21,400
Speaker 1: UM and cadso was maintaining in black Hammer as a whole,

2012
02:01:21,440 --> 02:01:24,760
Speaker 1: is maintaining a superactive social media presence at this time

2013
02:01:24,800 --> 02:01:28,280
Speaker 1: as well. So you know, one of the other things

2014
02:01:28,280 --> 02:01:29,880
Speaker 1: that gets brought out is like this video of them

2015
02:01:29,880 --> 02:01:32,960
Speaker 1: talking about, oh, we built this bridge on our land,

2016
02:01:33,520 --> 02:01:35,480
Speaker 1: which is kind of a bunch of two by force

2017
02:01:35,520 --> 02:01:41,480
Speaker 1: across the ditch. Yeah. Are they planning to buy UM

2018
02:01:41,560 --> 02:01:46,600
Speaker 1: in and then as like an organization or as kinds

2019
02:01:46,640 --> 02:01:49,240
Speaker 1: are planning to buy themselves as an individual? Between know

2020
02:01:50,000 --> 02:01:53,640
Speaker 1: they This is actually something I did some research on UM.

2021
02:01:53,720 --> 02:01:58,280
Speaker 1: They did this fun thing. They created a front group,

2022
02:01:58,400 --> 02:02:02,240
Speaker 1: a front organization to buy the land nice which they

2023
02:02:02,240 --> 02:02:08,160
Speaker 1: called Hammerstone Industries Incorporated. Yeah, it's stealthy. They one of

2024
02:02:08,200 --> 02:02:10,920
Speaker 1: the member, one of the prominent members, was responsible for that.

2025
02:02:11,040 --> 02:02:15,800
Speaker 1: So power of Google. Yeah. I also found their bitcoin

2026
02:02:15,880 --> 02:02:17,840
Speaker 1: what what we were talking and it has never had

2027
02:02:17,880 --> 02:02:22,760
Speaker 1: any donations and it remains empty. Oh my god, Yeah,

2028
02:02:23,120 --> 02:02:27,560
Speaker 1: that one has it gone well? Ah? So after this

2029
02:02:28,720 --> 02:02:31,120
Speaker 1: land deal falls through, hammer City is not being built,

2030
02:02:31,800 --> 02:02:34,960
Speaker 1: a lot of people get really fucking piste. But also

2031
02:02:35,160 --> 02:02:38,080
Speaker 1: it sounds like they shot through the real estate sign

2032
02:02:38,120 --> 02:02:41,280
Speaker 1: on their way out of the stuff division. So on.

2033
02:02:41,280 --> 02:02:46,160
Speaker 1: On the seventeenth, that is when the group leaves hammer City. UM.

2034
02:02:46,400 --> 02:02:50,880
Speaker 1: So going back to what Robert mentioned earlier, UM, the

2035
02:02:50,920 --> 02:02:54,720
Speaker 1: group took a very i'll say interesting approach when COVID

2036
02:02:54,800 --> 02:02:59,200
Speaker 1: nineteen started, UM, which is the belief that COVID nineteen

2037
02:02:59,280 --> 02:03:02,240
Speaker 1: is real, that we should wear masks and be protected,

2038
02:03:03,160 --> 02:03:05,960
Speaker 1: but that they should not take the vaccine, and that

2039
02:03:06,000 --> 02:03:11,800
Speaker 1: fought Fauci was a liar, which comes out a bit later. So,

2040
02:03:11,800 --> 02:03:13,960
Speaker 1: so they were doing, for example, there's a there's a

2041
02:03:14,000 --> 02:03:18,160
Speaker 1: news article with a video of them doing mutual aid

2042
02:03:18,200 --> 02:03:23,120
Speaker 1: distribution of masks and food in Colorado. So lots of

2043
02:03:23,120 --> 02:03:27,080
Speaker 1: people are really fucking pissed UM when Hammer City falls through.

2044
02:03:27,480 --> 02:03:33,120
Speaker 1: There's also been you know, these allegations that have been

2045
02:03:33,160 --> 02:03:35,760
Speaker 1: coming up again and again UM. And at this point,

2046
02:03:35,840 --> 02:03:41,840
Speaker 1: several chapters break apart from Black Hammer, UM break away

2047
02:03:41,880 --> 02:03:43,760
Speaker 1: from Caso and kind of go off and do their

2048
02:03:43,760 --> 02:03:48,600
Speaker 1: own thing. UM, and Caso is left with this core

2049
02:03:48,680 --> 02:03:53,840
Speaker 1: group of members UM kind of true believers and says,

2050
02:03:53,920 --> 02:03:58,040
Speaker 1: fuck it, We're moving to Atlanta. So the group does

2051
02:03:58,440 --> 02:04:03,120
Speaker 1: a marathon drive on Colorado to the southern suburbs of

2052
02:04:03,160 --> 02:04:06,040
Speaker 1: Atlanta and outside of Atlanta's where cause that grew up

2053
02:04:06,040 --> 02:04:11,760
Speaker 1: on the east side, UM from the northeast. UM. And

2054
02:04:11,840 --> 02:04:16,920
Speaker 1: they keep going. They rent a house where everyone lives together,

2055
02:04:18,080 --> 02:04:20,520
Speaker 1: another one of their hammer houses. I believe at this

2056
02:04:20,560 --> 02:04:24,120
Speaker 1: time there is another active chapter that is still connected

2057
02:04:24,120 --> 02:04:30,280
Speaker 1: with CASO and the Carolinas as well. UM. But you

2058
02:04:30,320 --> 02:04:35,560
Speaker 1: know this is a when prophecy fails moment for Caso UM.

2059
02:04:35,640 --> 02:04:37,880
Speaker 1: And the people that are left behind are these true

2060
02:04:37,920 --> 02:04:42,440
Speaker 1: believers UM. And CASA doesn't take this well, it doesn't

2061
02:04:42,480 --> 02:04:45,960
Speaker 1: take the failure of this deal well, becomes even more

2062
02:04:46,000 --> 02:04:49,120
Speaker 1: paranoid than they already were, more controlling and more abusive

2063
02:04:49,600 --> 02:04:53,480
Speaker 1: than they already were. So there's the Red Voice gets

2064
02:04:53,480 --> 02:04:58,120
Speaker 1: into some of the really wild allegations that come out

2065
02:04:58,520 --> 02:05:04,480
Speaker 1: at this time. Allegedly, CARSO has members sign over UM

2066
02:05:04,480 --> 02:05:08,080
Speaker 1: control of the bank accounts to them at gunpoint, as

2067
02:05:08,120 --> 02:05:13,040
Speaker 1: people reveal personal information at gunpoint. And again these are allegations.

2068
02:05:13,040 --> 02:05:18,160
Speaker 1: I'm not saying godso did this UM that we get

2069
02:05:18,800 --> 02:05:23,320
Speaker 1: some of these classic cult techniques coming out, forcing people

2070
02:05:23,360 --> 02:05:26,960
Speaker 1: to sit and listen to Caso kind of preach, having

2071
02:05:27,000 --> 02:05:32,960
Speaker 1: people constantly working, not getting enough to eat, um, having

2072
02:05:33,040 --> 02:05:37,840
Speaker 1: you know, love bombing where God where Caso makes you know,

2073
02:05:37,960 --> 02:05:40,200
Speaker 1: deep eye contract with the person, talks about how important

2074
02:05:40,240 --> 02:05:43,920
Speaker 1: they are, how much they love them, and the consumption

2075
02:05:43,960 --> 02:05:48,520
Speaker 1: of psychedelics as well. Cool, that's good. Yeah, yeah, you

2076
02:05:48,600 --> 02:05:51,840
Speaker 1: love to hear that. Um. Yeah, just a bunch of

2077
02:05:51,840 --> 02:05:57,240
Speaker 1: heavily armed people being cops for each other and drugging

2078
02:05:57,280 --> 02:06:01,160
Speaker 1: each other in support of I don't Charismatics seems like

2079
02:06:01,200 --> 02:06:03,560
Speaker 1: a weird word for ghazi, but it must be right, Like,

2080
02:06:03,600 --> 02:06:06,880
Speaker 1: clearly it works on some people. Yeah, I think they

2081
02:06:07,080 --> 02:06:09,720
Speaker 1: think they are charismatic, right, Like I think it's necessarily

2082
02:06:09,920 --> 02:06:12,240
Speaker 1: they are to be good to be charismatic, but no

2083
02:06:12,520 --> 02:06:16,840
Speaker 1: good as some people seem to be responding to their

2084
02:06:17,560 --> 02:06:20,240
Speaker 1: I don't know the way they present themselves. It's so

2085
02:06:21,240 --> 02:06:23,240
Speaker 1: I guess that's always the way with cults, right that,

2086
02:06:23,360 --> 02:06:25,960
Speaker 1: Like to the outside, the cult leader is always an

2087
02:06:25,960 --> 02:06:29,640
Speaker 1: obvious cult leader, but everybody's got different things they're vulnerable

2088
02:06:29,800 --> 02:06:32,960
Speaker 1: do and and for some people that's well. And I

2089
02:06:32,960 --> 02:06:34,760
Speaker 1: also I said, I think a lot of it is

2090
02:06:35,000 --> 02:06:38,720
Speaker 1: they have like presented themselves differently in different periods and them,

2091
02:06:38,760 --> 02:06:41,440
Speaker 1: I think from what I've been reading, it sounds like

2092
02:06:41,440 --> 02:06:43,880
Speaker 1: a decent chunk of the folks who were kind of

2093
02:06:43,880 --> 02:06:45,920
Speaker 1: most deeply wrapped up and it have been with it

2094
02:06:45,960 --> 02:06:47,840
Speaker 1: for a while, so they've kind of followed along with

2095
02:06:47,880 --> 02:06:51,040
Speaker 1: Ghazi as they've you know. Yeah, and this is a

2096
02:06:51,040 --> 02:06:55,000
Speaker 1: group that preyed upon young people, preyed upon queer people,

2097
02:06:55,920 --> 02:06:58,560
Speaker 1: preyed upon on a house, people, preyed upon people of

2098
02:06:58,600 --> 02:07:02,120
Speaker 1: color who are out there in sections you know of

2099
02:07:02,280 --> 02:07:08,680
Speaker 1: oppression in our society, um, and disagree. Like most cults,

2100
02:07:09,120 --> 02:07:11,800
Speaker 1: it offered them a cause, a purpose, something to fight for,

2101
02:07:12,000 --> 02:07:16,080
Speaker 1: something to do, friends roof over their head even you know,

2102
02:07:17,200 --> 02:07:21,120
Speaker 1: um yep, which is a huge part of it, right

2103
02:07:21,160 --> 02:07:24,040
Speaker 1: because if you if this, if this place is not

2104
02:07:24,120 --> 02:07:27,760
Speaker 1: just your social circle but also your safety net, and

2105
02:07:27,840 --> 02:07:29,560
Speaker 1: like how you keep roof over your head and how

2106
02:07:29,600 --> 02:07:32,920
Speaker 1: you stay fed and you don't have close ties to

2107
02:07:33,000 --> 02:07:35,960
Speaker 1: family or maybe your family aren't people that you can trust.

2108
02:07:36,080 --> 02:07:38,880
Speaker 1: Like I mean, again, it's not a different story than

2109
02:07:38,880 --> 02:07:40,640
Speaker 1: you get in a bunch of other cults, but like

2110
02:07:40,720 --> 02:07:44,400
Speaker 1: this is yeah, it's it's it's a very frightening situation

2111
02:07:44,480 --> 02:07:47,000
Speaker 1: for those people to wind up in. And of course

2112
02:07:47,160 --> 02:07:50,040
Speaker 1: one of the things that is unfortunate is that so

2113
02:07:50,120 --> 02:07:52,720
Speaker 1: much of the stuff that the Blackham Organization said and

2114
02:07:52,800 --> 02:07:55,880
Speaker 1: did is so absurd that like it leads to this

2115
02:07:55,960 --> 02:07:58,120
Speaker 1: kind of mockery of anybody who gets wrapped up in

2116
02:07:58,160 --> 02:08:00,280
Speaker 1: it and the people who are very much vic dyms

2117
02:08:00,320 --> 02:08:01,880
Speaker 1: of it, which I think is also one of the

2118
02:08:01,920 --> 02:08:03,920
Speaker 1: things that makes it harder to leave, right, is that

2119
02:08:04,320 --> 02:08:08,240
Speaker 1: siege mentel and outside. That's where the term collegnitive dissonance

2120
02:08:08,280 --> 02:08:13,360
Speaker 1: comes from, specifically people, right, you know, when when things

2121
02:08:13,360 --> 02:08:16,160
Speaker 1: that go according to plan stick with this group and

2122
02:08:16,240 --> 02:08:18,880
Speaker 1: you know, have already given always so much of their time,

2123
02:08:18,960 --> 02:08:20,600
Speaker 1: so much of their life in any of their connections,

2124
02:08:21,560 --> 02:08:24,880
Speaker 1: that they just roll with it. Yeah, And then there's

2125
02:08:25,840 --> 02:08:28,000
Speaker 1: I'm just thinking back to a story I wrote years ago.

2126
02:08:28,040 --> 02:08:30,720
Speaker 1: Were fortunate enough to interview someone who's like an expert

2127
02:08:30,760 --> 02:08:33,880
Speaker 1: on these small cults, and they had actually been a

2128
02:08:33,920 --> 02:08:36,920
Speaker 1: survivor of I think it was a trotsky Is cult,

2129
02:08:37,640 --> 02:08:40,680
Speaker 1: so they were very familiar. They like, this group exhibits

2130
02:08:40,680 --> 02:08:43,320
Speaker 1: all those patterns, right, like the charismatic leader that you mentioned,

2131
02:08:43,360 --> 02:08:45,720
Speaker 1: the use of their own language, the control of their

2132
02:08:45,760 --> 02:08:50,440
Speaker 1: relationships and their contacts inside and outside the group. Yeah,

2133
02:08:50,520 --> 02:08:53,600
Speaker 1: and then they mirror this like very positive. It seemed

2134
02:08:53,600 --> 02:08:55,600
Speaker 1: to like, just look at their aesthetics after you mentioned

2135
02:08:55,600 --> 02:08:57,840
Speaker 1: it that they're definitely sort of seeking to mirror that

2136
02:08:58,240 --> 02:09:02,360
Speaker 1: like Black Panther Party as sthetic, right, which is obviously

2137
02:09:02,360 --> 02:09:05,400
Speaker 1: something that has, for good reasons, very postive associations for

2138
02:09:05,400 --> 02:09:08,680
Speaker 1: a lot of people. So I can see they've constructed

2139
02:09:08,720 --> 02:09:11,920
Speaker 1: it's very appealing package. But yeah, and now there's a

2140
02:09:12,000 --> 02:09:15,480
Speaker 1: body right now, a person has died connected, let's get

2141
02:09:15,520 --> 02:09:18,800
Speaker 1: to the station. So yeah, let's talk about this. So

2142
02:09:18,840 --> 02:09:24,000
Speaker 1: in Atlanta is where things get really wacky basically, as

2143
02:09:24,080 --> 02:09:27,600
Speaker 1: is often the case with Atlanta, has is often the

2144
02:09:27,600 --> 02:09:31,360
Speaker 1: case with this beautiful, beautiful city owned by Coca Cola

2145
02:09:31,400 --> 02:09:34,720
Speaker 1: and home depot with with I have to admit it

2146
02:09:34,720 --> 02:09:38,400
Speaker 1: as a Texan the best barbecue in the South, that's true.

2147
02:09:38,440 --> 02:09:42,680
Speaker 1: Excellent Ethiopian food as well. I was there this weekend. Yeah, yeah,

2148
02:09:42,720 --> 02:09:48,200
Speaker 1: fucking amazing, fucking amazing Ethiopian Ethiopian food. Yeah. Big refugee population,

2149
02:09:48,360 --> 02:09:53,520
Speaker 1: that's besides the point. So you know, cause I was

2150
02:09:53,520 --> 02:09:58,960
Speaker 1: found themselves in this city without a ton of money, um,

2151
02:09:59,040 --> 02:10:01,680
Speaker 1: and so needs to get more attention, needs to appeal

2152
02:10:01,760 --> 02:10:06,200
Speaker 1: to more people. So this is when Causo announces that

2153
02:10:06,360 --> 02:10:09,080
Speaker 1: Black Hammer is forming a coalition with the Proud Boys,

2154
02:10:09,360 --> 02:10:11,560
Speaker 1: which is one of those things that comes out and

2155
02:10:11,600 --> 02:10:15,160
Speaker 1: really sensationalized headlines but doesn't actually happen. What happens is

2156
02:10:15,200 --> 02:10:19,280
Speaker 1: cause of goes on a podcast with Gavin McGinnis and

2157
02:10:19,320 --> 02:10:22,120
Speaker 1: they talked about we have so much in common and

2158
02:10:22,160 --> 02:10:25,760
Speaker 1: there's you know, a little toast evidence of actual organizing

2159
02:10:25,840 --> 02:10:28,640
Speaker 1: or work together between the two groups. But with this

2160
02:10:29,120 --> 02:10:34,200
Speaker 1: group like this, no, especially because Gavin doesn't organizing anymorevolving

2161
02:10:34,320 --> 02:10:37,800
Speaker 1: problems anymore. What was the podcast they went on? Stead

2162
02:10:37,800 --> 02:10:42,080
Speaker 1: of interest? Daniel cut that and add in the entire

2163
02:10:42,440 --> 02:10:45,560
Speaker 1: audio from b movie condensed into a two second blast

2164
02:10:45,680 --> 02:10:50,280
Speaker 1: like we talked about, you know, the group gets more

2165
02:10:50,280 --> 02:10:55,200
Speaker 1: attention to that. UM. They start talking about how great

2166
02:10:55,280 --> 02:10:58,040
Speaker 1: Trump is, how much do they love Trump, how Fauci

2167
02:10:58,160 --> 02:11:02,400
Speaker 1: is evil? UM. Because again, ideology is not the point.

2168
02:11:02,680 --> 02:11:04,800
Speaker 1: The attention is. And this is how you continue get

2169
02:11:04,800 --> 02:11:10,720
Speaker 1: attention by acting ridiculous, UM, by asking Trump voters to

2170
02:11:10,760 --> 02:11:13,640
Speaker 1: donate money to you. UM. And at this time they

2171
02:11:13,680 --> 02:11:18,440
Speaker 1: also begin an extremely aggressive fundraising campaign in the city

2172
02:11:18,440 --> 02:11:23,360
Speaker 1: of Atlanta. So there's a park in downtown Atlantic called

2173
02:11:23,360 --> 02:11:27,520
Speaker 1: Woodroff Park that has a huge on housed population. Because

2174
02:11:27,520 --> 02:11:31,000
Speaker 1: our city is about at being a city and it's

2175
02:11:31,520 --> 02:11:35,200
Speaker 1: it's just back but Black Hammer there there are other groups.

2176
02:11:35,200 --> 02:11:37,280
Speaker 1: There are other e leftist groups that do mutual aid

2177
02:11:37,400 --> 02:11:40,160
Speaker 1: that help people out in the park. Black Hammer says,

2178
02:11:40,200 --> 02:11:42,560
Speaker 1: we're gonna do this too, you know. So they'll go

2179
02:11:42,680 --> 02:11:46,440
Speaker 1: there and have these sessions where they're screaming into a

2180
02:11:46,480 --> 02:11:52,680
Speaker 1: megaphone about whatever, UM and you know, handing out clothes

2181
02:11:52,720 --> 02:11:55,880
Speaker 1: and some food to unhoused people. UM. And they also

2182
02:11:57,080 --> 02:12:00,960
Speaker 1: start setting there. The members of their group pretty much

2183
02:12:01,000 --> 02:12:03,960
Speaker 1: every day of the week two go out into the

2184
02:12:04,000 --> 02:12:07,480
Speaker 1: Steve Atlanta and ask people for money on the streets UH,

2185
02:12:07,480 --> 02:12:15,400
Speaker 1: in their matching branded Blackhammer t shirts and masks. A

2186
02:12:15,440 --> 02:12:19,720
Speaker 1: site to see and yeah, so this is what they

2187
02:12:19,760 --> 02:12:24,760
Speaker 1: call their robin Hood campaign. UM. They specifically target college

2188
02:12:24,800 --> 02:12:31,360
Speaker 1: campuses at Georgia State University and Georgia Tech especially UM

2189
02:12:31,360 --> 02:12:34,200
Speaker 1: with the idea that college kids have a lot of

2190
02:12:34,240 --> 02:12:40,840
Speaker 1: money to give away. It's not a great idea, UM,

2191
02:12:40,920 --> 02:12:43,400
Speaker 1: but they do this aggressive fundraising where they you know,

2192
02:12:43,720 --> 02:12:46,640
Speaker 1: follow people and if they don't take no Franchwis say, oh,

2193
02:12:46,640 --> 02:12:48,720
Speaker 1: you don't care about homeless people, you don't care about

2194
02:12:48,800 --> 02:12:53,120
Speaker 1: unhoused people. Um, you know, you just have so much

2195
02:12:53,160 --> 02:12:58,360
Speaker 1: white privilege and really attacking people. Um, which is great.

2196
02:12:58,440 --> 02:13:01,520
Speaker 1: When you're coming home, you're riding your bike home and

2197
02:13:01,520 --> 02:13:08,880
Speaker 1: then you keep passing Black Hammer members m outside of uh,

2198
02:13:09,200 --> 02:13:13,080
Speaker 1: you know, on your commute home. Not fun. Yeah, And

2199
02:13:13,360 --> 02:13:15,680
Speaker 1: they appear, you know, on the belt Line, which is

2200
02:13:15,720 --> 02:13:20,000
Speaker 1: this kind of public green space and shared walking space

2201
02:13:20,040 --> 02:13:24,400
Speaker 1: in Atlanta. Um. They do this outside of concert venues.

2202
02:13:25,240 --> 02:13:29,000
Speaker 1: You know. I went to see The Dead Kennedy's and

2203
02:13:29,080 --> 02:13:30,720
Speaker 1: as I was walking into the venue, a Black Hammer

2204
02:13:30,720 --> 02:13:33,320
Speaker 1: guy asked me for money. I have to explain to

2205
02:13:33,320 --> 02:13:36,160
Speaker 1: the guy in front of me handing them five dollars,

2206
02:13:36,720 --> 02:13:38,600
Speaker 1: this is an anti semitic colt. You don't want to

2207
02:13:38,600 --> 02:13:44,879
Speaker 1: do that. And they they're also taking in unhoused people. Um.

2208
02:13:44,920 --> 02:13:48,480
Speaker 1: You know there's this video of of one of the

2209
02:13:48,520 --> 02:13:51,920
Speaker 1: lieutenants saying, you know, we want to get you, the

2210
02:13:52,040 --> 02:13:56,560
Speaker 1: unhoused people to come fundraise for us. You know, if

2211
02:13:56,560 --> 02:13:58,680
Speaker 1: you come fund raise for us, you can keep half

2212
02:13:58,680 --> 02:14:02,160
Speaker 1: of it slay and whoever fundraises the most in this

2213
02:14:02,200 --> 02:14:05,600
Speaker 1: week gets to cume live with us at the Hammer House,

2214
02:14:08,120 --> 02:14:12,200
Speaker 1: so it's pretty fucked up, you know. Um there's a

2215
02:14:12,240 --> 02:14:17,280
Speaker 1: case where a professor at Georgia State University, because these

2216
02:14:17,280 --> 02:14:21,600
Speaker 1: people the blood can't remembers out there every day all day. Um,

2217
02:14:21,920 --> 02:14:24,120
Speaker 1: this is what they do, this is their job, this

2218
02:14:24,160 --> 02:14:27,440
Speaker 1: is how the group makes money, you know, calls them

2219
02:14:27,440 --> 02:14:29,960
Speaker 1: out and says, hey, stop asking for money here. I

2220
02:14:30,000 --> 02:14:33,640
Speaker 1: know you're a cult. And a member follows the professor

2221
02:14:33,680 --> 02:14:36,720
Speaker 1: and films her, you know, and specifically films her license

2222
02:14:36,760 --> 02:14:41,000
Speaker 1: plate and says, we got you. For example, members are

2223
02:14:41,120 --> 02:14:45,520
Speaker 1: arrested for having a megaphone in Woodruff Park and get

2224
02:14:45,560 --> 02:14:47,280
Speaker 1: some of their guns taken away when the rest because

2225
02:14:47,320 --> 02:14:50,080
Speaker 1: they're in the park with a bunch of guns. You

2226
02:14:50,240 --> 02:14:55,240
Speaker 1: just have guns out. Yeah, Yeah, it's Georgia, which sometimes

2227
02:14:55,480 --> 02:14:58,120
Speaker 1: is cool when the Proud Boys show up and anti

2228
02:14:58,120 --> 02:15:02,280
Speaker 1: fascists have guns, but it's not not great when black

2229
02:15:02,280 --> 02:15:08,200
Speaker 1: hammers doing that. Definitely, tracking following people who criticize you

2230
02:15:08,320 --> 02:15:10,840
Speaker 1: in taking pictures of their license plate to try to

2231
02:15:10,920 --> 02:15:15,760
Speaker 1: docks them online is not at all cult behavior. They

2232
02:15:17,320 --> 02:15:21,000
Speaker 1: attack X members. They leak the addresses of the family

2233
02:15:21,000 --> 02:15:24,280
Speaker 1: of X members and their social Security numbers as well

2234
02:15:24,640 --> 02:15:27,080
Speaker 1: because they had them give them all this information at gunpoint.

2235
02:15:28,320 --> 02:15:31,880
Speaker 1: They seem to get very close to encouraging people to

2236
02:15:31,960 --> 02:15:35,640
Speaker 1: shoot cops in a couple of pieces on their website

2237
02:15:35,640 --> 02:15:39,760
Speaker 1: as well, they talked about killing white people a lot.

2238
02:15:40,640 --> 02:15:47,240
Speaker 1: Eventually in Yeah, in two, they have this rally outside

2239
02:15:47,240 --> 02:15:49,840
Speaker 1: of the CNN Center and solidarity with the January six

2240
02:15:50,160 --> 02:15:56,960
Speaker 1: political prisoners. UM. Along the way in Gauzy claims to

2241
02:15:57,000 --> 02:16:03,840
Speaker 1: find have found Jesus and uh, Black Camera becomes a

2242
02:16:03,920 --> 02:16:08,840
Speaker 1: religious group, you know. They they turned their mutual aid

2243
02:16:08,880 --> 02:16:11,800
Speaker 1: distribution into what they're calling the Revolutionary Church, which of

2244
02:16:11,840 --> 02:16:16,320
Speaker 1: course is filmed in live streamed. They have several live

2245
02:16:16,440 --> 02:16:19,200
Speaker 1: streams that they do regularly throughout the week that are

2246
02:16:19,240 --> 02:16:24,800
Speaker 1: mandatory for members to attend. UM. You know, there there

2247
02:16:24,960 --> 02:16:28,080
Speaker 1: is corporal punishment going on within the group of people

2248
02:16:28,120 --> 02:16:33,920
Speaker 1: living at the house UM and and the people that

2249
02:16:33,959 --> 02:16:37,160
Speaker 1: they're picking up off the street. It's not just adults,

2250
02:16:37,160 --> 02:16:41,240
Speaker 1: it's kids as well, UM cause of claims to have

2251
02:16:41,280 --> 02:16:45,880
Speaker 1: the sixteen year old that they have adopted. UM and

2252
02:16:46,240 --> 02:16:48,400
Speaker 1: you know, cause of post these videos of them giving

2253
02:16:48,400 --> 02:16:51,200
Speaker 1: the sixteen year old guns and money and clothes to

2254
02:16:51,200 --> 02:16:57,600
Speaker 1: where um the kid gets taken into state custody, um,

2255
02:16:57,720 --> 02:17:03,040
Speaker 1: before the current thing that we're taught talking about. Um,

2256
02:17:03,040 --> 02:17:05,080
Speaker 1: and this is going to be important later on in

2257
02:17:05,080 --> 02:17:12,000
Speaker 1: the story. Um. Yeah. So there are also these stories

2258
02:17:12,040 --> 02:17:14,959
Speaker 1: from members who have escaped, who have to do these

2259
02:17:14,959 --> 02:17:17,199
Speaker 1: elaborate escape attempts to get out because they're not allowed

2260
02:17:17,200 --> 02:17:19,800
Speaker 1: to leave, who have to kind of run away in

2261
02:17:19,840 --> 02:17:21,360
Speaker 1: the middle of the night with none of their stuff

2262
02:17:21,520 --> 02:17:24,879
Speaker 1: through a thunderstorm to get out. So this is what

2263
02:17:24,920 --> 02:17:28,400
Speaker 1: we're dealing with. All right, everyone, it's James here, and

2264
02:17:28,440 --> 02:17:31,320
Speaker 1: I just wanted to correct a couple of things from

2265
02:17:31,360 --> 02:17:34,400
Speaker 1: the episode or add to them. One of them was

2266
02:17:34,440 --> 02:17:37,720
Speaker 1: the date of that shooting, be it murder or death

2267
02:17:37,760 --> 02:17:43,279
Speaker 1: Bay suicide. That was the nine of July, note of February,

2268
02:17:43,600 --> 02:17:45,560
Speaker 1: and so it happened about a week ago at the

2269
02:17:45,600 --> 02:17:47,200
Speaker 1: time that you will hear this if you hear this

2270
02:17:47,240 --> 02:17:50,520
Speaker 1: on the day that we put out. Secondly, I also

2271
02:17:50,600 --> 02:17:53,360
Speaker 1: just wanted to give some context to the word huru.

2272
02:17:53,640 --> 02:17:58,400
Speaker 1: It's Swahili word means freedom or independence, and it was

2273
02:17:58,520 --> 02:18:02,360
Speaker 1: used as part of a a backronym, which is when

2274
02:18:02,440 --> 02:18:03,840
Speaker 1: when a group has a name with them, they create

2275
02:18:03,879 --> 02:18:07,720
Speaker 1: an acronym that fits to that name, and the word

2276
02:18:08,200 --> 02:18:10,000
Speaker 1: huru was part of a backronym for a group called

2277
02:18:10,040 --> 02:18:15,720
Speaker 1: the Mau Mau Revolutionary anti colonial group who existed in Kenya,

2278
02:18:16,280 --> 02:18:18,120
Speaker 1: and the word of Huru was used a decent amount

2279
02:18:18,120 --> 02:18:21,879
Speaker 1: of ACTI colonial struggles in Kenya in the backronym. The

2280
02:18:21,920 --> 02:18:27,120
Speaker 1: backronym is miszoom end Ufrica Party or Huru let the

2281
02:18:27,160 --> 02:18:30,840
Speaker 1: foreigners go home, Africa should be independent, will be independent.

2282
02:18:31,720 --> 02:18:34,959
Speaker 1: I suppose I just wanted to give that context. And

2283
02:18:35,000 --> 02:18:39,039
Speaker 1: obviously it's been appropriated now by by the Proud Boys,

2284
02:18:39,120 --> 02:18:43,200
Speaker 1: but that is part of the etymology of the word.

2285
02:18:44,280 --> 02:18:51,760
Speaker 1: And then we get to um, what happened on February two. Um,

2286
02:18:51,840 --> 02:18:55,280
Speaker 1: you know, this is an ongoing story, so the fact

2287
02:18:55,959 --> 02:18:59,240
Speaker 1: what we know might be changing. But early in the morning,

2288
02:18:59,480 --> 02:19:03,760
Speaker 1: someone is one and talks about being held hostage by

2289
02:19:03,800 --> 02:19:07,160
Speaker 1: an organization, by a group. They don't give the address,

2290
02:19:07,240 --> 02:19:11,000
Speaker 1: but the police are the authorities are able to track

2291
02:19:11,000 --> 02:19:16,920
Speaker 1: the number to this house in Fayetteville stuburb south of Atlanta. UM,

2292
02:19:16,959 --> 02:19:23,199
Speaker 1: and show up and they see someone is outside walking

2293
02:19:23,200 --> 02:19:27,080
Speaker 1: a dog who runs away. That person gets arrested. Um,

2294
02:19:27,120 --> 02:19:29,879
Speaker 1: that's a member of Black Hammer. They see someone kind

2295
02:19:29,879 --> 02:19:34,200
Speaker 1: of waving from the garage seemingly in distress. UM and

2296
02:19:34,240 --> 02:19:37,000
Speaker 1: the police are able to get that person out, they

2297
02:19:37,000 --> 02:19:39,400
Speaker 1: asked that the rest the people in the house come

2298
02:19:39,400 --> 02:19:44,280
Speaker 1: out as well. UM. About ten people come out and

2299
02:19:44,840 --> 02:19:50,240
Speaker 1: one person remains inside. Now by about two pm, with

2300
02:19:50,320 --> 02:19:55,560
Speaker 1: the use of an explosives ordinance, with the use of

2301
02:19:55,560 --> 02:20:00,320
Speaker 1: an EO D A bomb robot UM, the police enter

2302
02:20:01,320 --> 02:20:04,360
Speaker 1: the building. UM. The SWAT team goes in and they

2303
02:20:04,400 --> 02:20:08,560
Speaker 1: find one person dead of a gunshot wounds to the head,

2304
02:20:09,280 --> 02:20:14,080
Speaker 1: which we at this current time we don't know the

2305
02:20:14,120 --> 02:20:17,360
Speaker 1: full details on that might not ever hopefully something comes out.

2306
02:20:18,080 --> 02:20:22,160
Speaker 1: Carso is being held, you know, the group is kind

2307
02:20:22,200 --> 02:20:27,120
Speaker 1: of like sitting around outside, not in handcuffs, but being

2308
02:20:27,120 --> 02:20:32,359
Speaker 1: held by the group. UM and Caso does what Causo

2309
02:20:32,440 --> 02:20:37,560
Speaker 1: does and starts to live stream. So here's a clip

2310
02:20:37,720 --> 02:20:42,240
Speaker 1: from this thirty minute live stream Facebook live that Causo does. Look,

2311
02:20:42,360 --> 02:20:45,959
Speaker 1: there's a lot of media girls, so this is just

2312
02:20:46,080 --> 02:20:48,280
Speaker 1: going to build me up at the end of the day.

2313
02:20:50,520 --> 02:21:01,520
Speaker 1: So thank you. H SO. If you think that no

2314
02:21:01,800 --> 02:21:05,040
Speaker 1: I am concerned anything like that, you're out of your mind.

2315
02:21:06,640 --> 02:21:10,280
Speaker 1: M at the end of the day, they're still breath

2316
02:21:10,320 --> 02:21:13,400
Speaker 1: in my body. I still run an amazing revolutionary party,

2317
02:21:13,879 --> 02:21:17,480
Speaker 1: our community is epping with us, and now all these

2318
02:21:17,520 --> 02:21:20,640
Speaker 1: news channels are going to want to interview us, and

2319
02:21:20,680 --> 02:21:22,520
Speaker 1: we're going to get to communicate about all the great

2320
02:21:22,520 --> 02:21:28,279
Speaker 1: work that we are doing here. So this is great

2321
02:21:28,800 --> 02:21:32,280
Speaker 1: at the end of the day. So my chickens coming

2322
02:21:32,320 --> 02:21:38,760
Speaker 1: home to roost is more more media, more followers, more

2323
02:21:39,640 --> 02:21:44,080
Speaker 1: you know, advancement of work, more movement, more greatness, and

2324
02:21:44,120 --> 02:21:49,720
Speaker 1: so be it, sweetheart. Things like this have a non stops.

2325
02:21:50,840 --> 02:21:58,200
Speaker 1: Movements are readers before, so not even overcome. This is

2326
02:21:58,520 --> 02:22:01,879
Speaker 1: a great moment, right comment. This is a great moment,

2327
02:22:02,440 --> 02:22:07,360
Speaker 1: a moment where no voices will be amplified and our

2328
02:22:07,360 --> 02:22:11,880
Speaker 1: mission cause will be informed. Well that's cool. I like

2329
02:22:12,480 --> 02:22:16,280
Speaker 1: that he clearly understands the gravity of the loss of

2330
02:22:16,320 --> 02:22:20,199
Speaker 1: a human life. So I will say this is probably

2331
02:22:20,240 --> 02:22:26,360
Speaker 1: before it became someone was dead. But the point is

2332
02:22:26,360 --> 02:22:30,720
Speaker 1: that this is exactly what Cauds have wanted, was this attention.

2333
02:22:31,080 --> 02:22:35,960
Speaker 1: Yeah they seem pumped. They seem pumped and also like deranged.

2334
02:22:37,040 --> 02:22:40,800
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, that wasn't how it envisioned them speaking

2335
02:22:40,800 --> 02:22:44,480
Speaker 1: at all. It's sort of very almost like calming, and

2336
02:22:44,640 --> 02:22:47,920
Speaker 1: they seem very very calm in a tone of voice. Yeah,

2337
02:22:48,959 --> 02:22:50,960
Speaker 1: I mean calm, but like, I don't know, I see

2338
02:22:50,959 --> 02:22:54,879
Speaker 1: an edge to him, but maybe that's any reading. Um,

2339
02:22:54,920 --> 02:22:58,400
Speaker 1: so do we know more detail about, like what happened

2340
02:22:58,440 --> 02:23:01,680
Speaker 1: with that person who died? Oh, I don't want to

2341
02:23:01,720 --> 02:23:05,480
Speaker 1: mention the name of the person. Um this place, this

2342
02:23:05,560 --> 02:23:09,800
Speaker 1: is a minor too, right. This is so the person

2343
02:23:10,000 --> 02:23:13,480
Speaker 1: who is killed, who's dead now, was not was not

2344
02:23:13,600 --> 02:23:15,400
Speaker 1: the sixteen year old. The sixteen year old was already

2345
02:23:15,400 --> 02:23:19,200
Speaker 1: in state custody weeks ago. I believe, Um, this is

2346
02:23:19,240 --> 02:23:21,440
Speaker 1: an eight According to the what the group has said

2347
02:23:21,440 --> 02:23:23,760
Speaker 1: and other survivors that I have spoken with, this is

2348
02:23:23,879 --> 02:23:26,680
Speaker 1: an eighteen year old the group took in off of

2349
02:23:26,720 --> 02:23:30,240
Speaker 1: the street. Um, there's a kid, you know who wanted

2350
02:23:30,280 --> 02:23:34,040
Speaker 1: to be a rapper, who had dreams. Um. You know,

2351
02:23:34,160 --> 02:23:38,200
Speaker 1: according to black cameras, own media, they made this person

2352
02:23:38,240 --> 02:23:40,959
Speaker 1: their minister of defense. That's a good job for an

2353
02:23:40,959 --> 02:23:44,320
Speaker 1: eighteen year old who's dead now because of this group,

2354
02:23:45,120 --> 02:23:48,400
Speaker 1: potentially from a self inflicted gunshot wound, which that is

2355
02:23:48,440 --> 02:23:54,240
Speaker 1: the case came about because of KASO putting that eighteen

2356
02:23:54,320 --> 02:23:59,320
Speaker 1: year old in this situation. Yeah, so dirty south right,

2357
02:23:59,360 --> 02:24:01,440
Speaker 1: watch the news. They have a really good threat that

2358
02:24:01,480 --> 02:24:05,879
Speaker 1: I also recommend about this happening. It seems like the

2359
02:24:05,920 --> 02:24:11,120
Speaker 1: local news they started covering the story and the am

2360
02:24:11,240 --> 02:24:14,720
Speaker 1: when it was happening, but didn't quite make the connection.

2361
02:24:15,040 --> 02:24:18,280
Speaker 1: There's there's one article it's out there from a local

2362
02:24:18,320 --> 02:24:26,080
Speaker 1: news site that just interviews Gazzi Kozo, homeowner of the house. Yeah,

2363
02:24:26,240 --> 02:24:29,720
Speaker 1: so that happens, one of the members of the group

2364
02:24:29,800 --> 02:24:33,359
Speaker 1: is immediately charged and booked. It's a really fucked up situation,

2365
02:24:33,400 --> 02:24:37,039
Speaker 1: you know. There there's like an unhoused individual who that

2366
02:24:37,200 --> 02:24:41,320
Speaker 1: who who other good activists were in touch with, who

2367
02:24:41,879 --> 02:24:44,000
Speaker 1: are at the house when this happened, because this person

2368
02:24:44,080 --> 02:24:47,760
Speaker 1: had no other choice but it was live outside or

2369
02:24:47,840 --> 02:24:52,680
Speaker 1: go with black Hammer went through all of this happening

2370
02:24:53,240 --> 02:24:55,800
Speaker 1: um and then it was still on how it was

2371
02:24:55,800 --> 02:24:59,920
Speaker 1: still on housed. After all this happened, Canso was arrest

2372
02:25:00,080 --> 02:25:06,199
Speaker 1: did and booked. The charges didn't come out until an

2373
02:25:06,240 --> 02:25:11,440
Speaker 1: hour before we started recording. The charges are two accounts

2374
02:25:11,480 --> 02:25:15,520
Speaker 1: of participation in streaking activity, two accounts of aggravated assault,

2375
02:25:15,920 --> 02:25:19,160
Speaker 1: two accounts of kidnapping, two accounts of false imprisonment, two

2376
02:25:19,160 --> 02:25:22,280
Speaker 1: accounts of conspiracy to commit a crime, and I'm gonna

2377
02:25:22,280 --> 02:25:25,720
Speaker 1: talk about this one one account of sodomy which in Georgia,

2378
02:25:26,040 --> 02:25:31,280
Speaker 1: the sodomy law refers to non consensual oral or anal

2379
02:25:31,360 --> 02:25:34,920
Speaker 1: sex or oral and anal sex performed with the minor

2380
02:25:36,480 --> 02:25:39,520
Speaker 1: got you so one way or the other that they're

2381
02:25:39,520 --> 02:25:45,640
Speaker 1: being accused of sexual assault. Yes, the other person arrested

2382
02:25:46,080 --> 02:25:50,840
Speaker 1: um was charged with the same crimes, except not sodomy

2383
02:25:52,160 --> 02:25:56,880
Speaker 1: officer instruction instead, presumably because they fled. And that's where

2384
02:25:56,879 --> 02:26:01,760
Speaker 1: we're at. That's where we're at right now. Cool. Well,

2385
02:26:03,080 --> 02:26:07,320
Speaker 1: that's rough. Yeah, it's it's a pretty bleak story. But

2386
02:26:08,000 --> 02:26:09,760
Speaker 1: I don't know at this point. We will probably be

2387
02:26:09,800 --> 02:26:12,360
Speaker 1: hearing more as this case blows up, and there's always

2388
02:26:12,400 --> 02:26:14,880
Speaker 1: the chance that you know, the rights going to wind

2389
02:26:14,920 --> 02:26:17,600
Speaker 1: up adopting it to try to, you know, make it

2390
02:26:17,640 --> 02:26:20,920
Speaker 1: into a left wing bad kind of deal. So when

2391
02:26:20,920 --> 02:26:23,600
Speaker 1: we yeah, yeah, I mean, we'll see what kind of

2392
02:26:23,680 --> 02:26:28,080
Speaker 1: legs it gets. But it's important to understand both what's

2393
02:26:28,120 --> 02:26:30,280
Speaker 1: happening here because a person is dead and a lot

2394
02:26:30,360 --> 02:26:32,600
Speaker 1: of people have been hurt, and also kind of broadly

2395
02:26:33,160 --> 02:26:35,959
Speaker 1: the trends that are at play here, the way like

2396
02:26:36,040 --> 02:26:39,360
Speaker 1: cult dynamics can intersect with radical politics, I think is

2397
02:26:39,400 --> 02:26:41,400
Speaker 1: important for people to be aware of because this kind

2398
02:26:41,400 --> 02:26:44,080
Speaker 1: of thing isn't going to get less common as ship

2399
02:26:44,080 --> 02:26:49,600
Speaker 1: continues to unravel. Yeah, and if there's some takeaways, if

2400
02:26:49,640 --> 02:26:53,720
Speaker 1: someone can leave this with you know a few points

2401
02:26:53,800 --> 02:26:56,920
Speaker 1: that the people who we're in this group, they are

2402
02:26:57,000 --> 02:26:59,600
Speaker 1: victims in the situation. They were preyed upon by this

2403
02:26:59,680 --> 02:27:04,920
Speaker 1: abuse of person because they were in a vulnerable state. Um. Anyone.

2404
02:27:05,200 --> 02:27:08,080
Speaker 1: This could happen to anyone who falls on hard times,

2405
02:27:08,120 --> 02:27:11,360
Speaker 1: who has a bad enough day and then someone comes

2406
02:27:11,360 --> 02:27:18,520
Speaker 1: in and offers them this that they say yes, you know. Um.

2407
02:27:18,640 --> 02:27:24,560
Speaker 1: The the other thing is to know about groups that

2408
02:27:24,600 --> 02:27:27,160
Speaker 1: are out there before you get involved. Do your research,

2409
02:27:27,320 --> 02:27:32,480
Speaker 1: listen to voices that might be critical of the group. Um,

2410
02:27:32,520 --> 02:27:37,120
Speaker 1: I know what you're getting yourself into. There are other

2411
02:27:39,560 --> 02:27:42,400
Speaker 1: sensibly left as groups out there who will not as

2412
02:27:42,440 --> 02:27:47,240
Speaker 1: abuse of as Black Hammer. Um, have cases of abuse

2413
02:27:47,440 --> 02:27:50,440
Speaker 1: coming out of them that gets covered up. Yeah, it

2414
02:27:50,520 --> 02:27:53,960
Speaker 1: might be good for us just to just to suggested

2415
02:27:54,000 --> 02:27:56,959
Speaker 1: if folks find themselves in a difficult situation on someone

2416
02:27:57,000 --> 02:27:59,120
Speaker 1: they know is in is in one of these situations,

2417
02:27:59,120 --> 02:28:02,600
Speaker 1: like maybe we can linked to some resources in the

2418
02:28:02,680 --> 02:28:11,880
Speaker 1: notes or something. Yeah, aren't Yep, there's not there's not

2419
02:28:11,920 --> 02:28:14,640
Speaker 1: a whole lot of committed to me that I've been

2420
02:28:14,680 --> 02:28:20,720
Speaker 1: trying to find. It's probably Stephen Hassan's book, which um

2421
02:28:21,040 --> 02:28:23,800
Speaker 1: sawn is also he's an expert in the field, but

2422
02:28:23,800 --> 02:28:26,360
Speaker 1: he's also the guy who talked about how Trainning Hitno

2423
02:28:26,480 --> 02:28:34,440
Speaker 1: Mind Control porn was. Yeah, he's got he's problematic. Yeah, well,

2424
02:28:34,520 --> 02:28:36,520
Speaker 1: I mean part of the reason that this is such

2425
02:28:36,520 --> 02:28:38,800
Speaker 1: a problem is that there's very little in terms of

2426
02:28:38,840 --> 02:28:42,000
Speaker 1: good resources or good writing. One of the things that is, like,

2427
02:28:42,240 --> 02:28:45,160
Speaker 1: there's good writing analyzing cults, very little of it will

2428
02:28:45,160 --> 02:28:47,200
Speaker 1: give you much that's useful in terms of how to

2429
02:28:47,240 --> 02:28:49,279
Speaker 1: get people out of cults, for a couple of reasons,

2430
02:28:49,280 --> 02:28:52,360
Speaker 1: including the fact that, as we talked about earlier, what

2431
02:28:52,600 --> 02:28:56,800
Speaker 1: makes people vulnerable, people aren't vulnerable to cults broadly usually,

2432
02:28:56,879 --> 02:28:59,360
Speaker 1: I know there's there's a certain subset of people, but like,

2433
02:29:00,000 --> 02:29:01,880
Speaker 1: as a general rule, people who get trapped in a

2434
02:29:01,879 --> 02:29:04,879
Speaker 1: cult get trapped in a specific cult because it is

2435
02:29:04,920 --> 02:29:08,160
Speaker 1: something that they are specifically vulnerable to. And so if

2436
02:29:08,200 --> 02:29:11,160
Speaker 1: you don't like it's more or less a matter of like,

2437
02:29:11,200 --> 02:29:14,440
Speaker 1: if you want to get someone out of a cult, um,

2438
02:29:14,480 --> 02:29:16,879
Speaker 1: are you close with that person? Like are they someone

2439
02:29:16,920 --> 02:29:18,959
Speaker 1: that you know? Are they someone that you have a

2440
02:29:19,040 --> 02:29:22,960
Speaker 1: deep relationship with because if so, like that relationship and

2441
02:29:23,040 --> 02:29:26,000
Speaker 1: the care that you have for them is primarily the

2442
02:29:26,040 --> 02:29:29,400
Speaker 1: thing that is most likely to eventually help them get out.

2443
02:29:29,400 --> 02:29:33,680
Speaker 1: Which doesn't mean it's a magic bullet, but like, there's

2444
02:29:33,720 --> 02:29:37,080
Speaker 1: no reliable way to get people out of colts yep,

2445
02:29:37,440 --> 02:29:41,280
Speaker 1: I'm a I do. I do step recovery stuff UM

2446
02:29:41,360 --> 02:29:44,320
Speaker 1: for different reasons. But the closest analogy that I can

2447
02:29:44,360 --> 02:29:46,320
Speaker 1: think of is dealing with someone who's abusing drug and

2448
02:29:46,320 --> 02:29:48,920
Speaker 1: alcohol in your life. You can't force anyone to stop,

2449
02:29:48,959 --> 02:29:52,519
Speaker 1: You can't make any moe. When people talk about cult deprogramming,

2450
02:29:53,000 --> 02:29:56,800
Speaker 1: what that entails kidnapping someone and then putting them through

2451
02:29:56,840 --> 02:30:00,760
Speaker 1: more abuse. So there is a magic bullet. Yeah, a

2452
02:30:00,800 --> 02:30:03,520
Speaker 1: lot of extremity problematic ship gets offered to people who

2453
02:30:03,600 --> 02:30:06,440
Speaker 1: understandably concerned for their friends and family members, and I

2454
02:30:06,480 --> 02:30:09,440
Speaker 1: just want to help. The best time to get someone

2455
02:30:09,480 --> 02:30:11,400
Speaker 1: out of a cult is before they join, you know,

2456
02:30:11,840 --> 02:30:16,840
Speaker 1: is to raise awareness about abuse in communities UM and

2457
02:30:16,879 --> 02:30:20,760
Speaker 1: share that information and take these things seriously. I truly

2458
02:30:20,760 --> 02:30:22,600
Speaker 1: believe so much of how this was able to happen

2459
02:30:22,680 --> 02:30:26,920
Speaker 1: is because people we're just laughing at them and didn't

2460
02:30:26,959 --> 02:30:29,600
Speaker 1: take it seriously. That this could get someone killed, that

2461
02:30:29,680 --> 02:30:32,800
Speaker 1: this was ruining lives, that's still happening. People are treating

2462
02:30:32,840 --> 02:30:37,200
Speaker 1: this as a joke, not yeah, And I think that's

2463
02:30:37,240 --> 02:30:39,760
Speaker 1: one of the things if you're like I don't know

2464
02:30:39,800 --> 02:30:43,760
Speaker 1: a parent or or somebody who otherwise works with their

2465
02:30:43,879 --> 02:30:46,680
Speaker 1: interfaces with there is raising young people, and you're trying

2466
02:30:46,760 --> 02:30:49,600
Speaker 1: to think about how you can make them less vulnerable

2467
02:30:49,600 --> 02:30:52,199
Speaker 1: to this. It is a mix of educating them about

2468
02:30:52,240 --> 02:30:56,480
Speaker 1: cults and not in a way that's like laughing or

2469
02:30:56,520 --> 02:30:59,199
Speaker 1: mocking or talking about how silly it is, but actually

2470
02:30:59,800 --> 02:31:02,600
Speaker 1: to discussing the very real reasons why people fall in

2471
02:31:02,720 --> 02:31:06,240
Speaker 1: for this stuff, because that's that's the important one of

2472
02:31:06,240 --> 02:31:08,640
Speaker 1: the most important things. It's the same as COVID. Really,

2473
02:31:09,040 --> 02:31:11,520
Speaker 1: one of the most important things for protecting yourself is

2474
02:31:11,560 --> 02:31:16,200
Speaker 1: not thinking that you're immune, which is a natural thing.

2475
02:31:16,320 --> 02:31:19,400
Speaker 1: Most people who have fallen into cults earlier in their

2476
02:31:19,400 --> 02:31:21,440
Speaker 1: life when they heard about colts, said well, that's stupid

2477
02:31:21,440 --> 02:31:23,560
Speaker 1: as hell. I would never get trapped in something like that,

2478
02:31:23,840 --> 02:31:26,440
Speaker 1: and then they did. And that's basically a hundred percent

2479
02:31:26,520 --> 02:31:32,840
Speaker 1: of COAT membership. You know, um, because yeah, if there's

2480
02:31:33,120 --> 02:31:37,560
Speaker 1: if I can recommend some resources for parents, Shannon fully

2481
02:31:37,600 --> 02:31:43,120
Speaker 1: Martinez who is on Twitter, is you know, was involved

2482
02:31:43,280 --> 02:31:48,840
Speaker 1: in extreme right skinhead stuff unless it is committed her

2483
02:31:48,879 --> 02:31:52,880
Speaker 1: life to helping people leave extremist movements. The same things

2484
02:31:53,160 --> 02:31:57,480
Speaker 1: you know that are going to make someone easily preyed

2485
02:31:57,520 --> 02:32:00,760
Speaker 1: upon by Colt and by an extremist group. Those are

2486
02:32:00,760 --> 02:32:04,640
Speaker 1: the same things. Um. And Shannon has some good resources

2487
02:32:04,640 --> 02:32:07,840
Speaker 1: out there. She has a Patreon as well. The resources

2488
02:32:07,879 --> 02:32:09,640
Speaker 1: are available for free. You don't need to join on

2489
02:32:09,680 --> 02:32:15,080
Speaker 1: her patreon. Awesome. Yeah, Shannon is awesome. UM. And other

2490
02:32:15,120 --> 02:32:19,320
Speaker 1: than that, you know, don't ye. Try to avoid falling

2491
02:32:19,360 --> 02:32:23,519
Speaker 1: for a cult, um except for you know this podcast.

2492
02:32:24,800 --> 02:32:27,560
Speaker 1: Keep listening to this podcast. Make it the center of

2493
02:32:27,560 --> 02:32:29,640
Speaker 1: your life. Have no friends of the nuts for in

2494
02:32:29,680 --> 02:32:33,360
Speaker 1: para social relationships with us? Uh huh, Well we're the

2495
02:32:33,400 --> 02:32:35,160
Speaker 1: only We're the only people you can trust. I think

2496
02:32:35,200 --> 02:32:40,720
Speaker 1: that's clear. Ye. Yeah. Would you like to plug anything

2497
02:32:40,920 --> 02:32:46,800
Speaker 1: before we carry off? Thomas? Yeah, I'm at Twitter at

2498
02:32:46,959 --> 02:32:52,040
Speaker 1: w underscore f underscore, Thomas. Don't be weird on Twitter. Um,

2499
02:32:52,920 --> 02:32:56,720
Speaker 1: have empathy for the people around you. Almost gonna plug

2500
02:32:57,600 --> 02:33:00,200
Speaker 1: HASHTA un housed people because they know what best can

2501
02:33:00,240 --> 02:33:05,240
Speaker 1: help them. Yeah, fucking provide people with options for housing,

2502
02:33:05,320 --> 02:33:09,280
Speaker 1: so that they're not. Yeah, having a could be the

2503
02:33:09,320 --> 02:33:13,840
Speaker 1: best thing they can do. But yeah, yep, I'm not

2504
02:33:13,879 --> 02:33:17,480
Speaker 1: a happy note. Thanks for having me. Yeah, checking onund

2505
02:33:17,480 --> 02:33:38,359
Speaker 1: your friends, debanding people when they're in difficult times. Uh,

2506
02:33:38,520 --> 02:33:42,600
Speaker 1: it could happen, It could happen here. That was my

2507
02:33:43,040 --> 02:33:49,560
Speaker 1: Robert Evans impression. Thank you very much. Hopefully that wasn't

2508
02:33:49,680 --> 02:33:55,240
Speaker 1: an assault in you. Um yeah, drums, but here we are, here,

2509
02:33:55,320 --> 02:34:01,280
Speaker 1: we are. I am Andrew, and this is it can

2510
02:34:01,320 --> 02:34:05,039
Speaker 1: happen in And this is the podcast where we talk

2511
02:34:05,080 --> 02:34:10,440
Speaker 1: about stuff that happened in places. And I'll be yes

2512
02:34:10,560 --> 02:34:14,560
Speaker 1: listening this episode. This is the Andruism segment where I

2513
02:34:14,600 --> 02:34:19,520
Speaker 1: talk about whatever comes to mind. So I'd like to

2514
02:34:19,520 --> 02:34:25,800
Speaker 1: open up this episode with a question, honestly, genuinely, how

2515
02:34:25,840 --> 02:34:28,720
Speaker 1: are you all doing? Well? There's a lot of stuff

2516
02:34:28,800 --> 02:34:32,720
Speaker 1: going on right now. Um, you know, not not the

2517
02:34:32,760 --> 02:34:37,480
Speaker 1: best time, um inside this country or really around the world.

2518
02:34:38,120 --> 02:34:44,800
Speaker 1: Um so yeah, not, I would say, not ideal, not idea. Yeah,

2519
02:34:44,840 --> 02:34:48,640
Speaker 1: I'm everything bad is happening and also being compounded that

2520
02:34:48,680 --> 02:34:51,200
Speaker 1: I have been. I have been once again awoken at

2521
02:34:51,240 --> 02:34:55,160
Speaker 1: it a genuinely egregiously early hour by someone pounding a

2522
02:34:55,200 --> 02:34:58,440
Speaker 1: hammer about eight inches from my head, which is fun

2523
02:34:58,520 --> 02:35:05,840
Speaker 1: and good and cool. So without context, without context all

2524
02:35:06,400 --> 02:35:11,800
Speaker 1: a wild thing to say. I am giving no context

2525
02:35:11,800 --> 02:35:17,280
Speaker 1: about that. This is literally true. So yeah, basically it's

2526
02:35:17,280 --> 02:35:23,039
Speaker 1: like that, but for everything. Yeah, I respect that. Not

2527
02:35:23,280 --> 02:35:33,680
Speaker 1: ideal is the perfect explanation. Yeah, yeah, not ideal, not ideal. Personally,

2528
02:35:33,720 --> 02:35:35,920
Speaker 1: I feel like i'm, you know, cost being pulled in

2529
02:35:35,920 --> 02:35:39,000
Speaker 1: a bunch of different directions and it's exhausted. And I mean,

2530
02:35:39,800 --> 02:35:43,120
Speaker 1: let's say upfront, I do have the privilege of having

2531
02:35:43,160 --> 02:35:45,520
Speaker 1: more control over my will day than a lot of

2532
02:35:45,560 --> 02:35:47,800
Speaker 1: other people do, and that's not something I take lightly.

2533
02:35:47,879 --> 02:35:51,039
Speaker 1: I'm very appreciative of that. UM shout out to my

2534
02:35:51,040 --> 02:35:56,280
Speaker 1: Patreon supporters. But you know, between all my online responsibilities

2535
02:35:56,400 --> 02:36:00,200
Speaker 1: and offline responsibilities and obligations and demands I might time,

2536
02:36:00,240 --> 02:36:02,560
Speaker 1: it really is not easy. And that's not even getting

2537
02:36:02,560 --> 02:36:06,560
Speaker 1: into like the social and politicals to the world right now.

2538
02:36:06,840 --> 02:36:09,560
Speaker 1: To Coach and Smith, you know, that's that's something I

2539
02:36:09,560 --> 02:36:13,200
Speaker 1: think we can all relate to on some level. Yeah,

2540
02:36:13,440 --> 02:36:15,920
Speaker 1: I mean, some weeks are much harder than others, but

2541
02:36:16,959 --> 02:36:21,720
Speaker 1: the through line has been stress and that is the

2542
02:36:21,720 --> 02:36:25,280
Speaker 1: subject of today's episode. That's so stressful that we're going

2543
02:36:25,320 --> 02:36:32,440
Speaker 1: to talk about stressful. Yeah, a discussion about stress. It

2544
02:36:32,480 --> 02:36:36,440
Speaker 1: really could happen here. Um. Stress is not something that's

2545
02:36:36,440 --> 02:36:39,800
Speaker 1: new to me, al really to most people. Me perasonally.

2546
02:36:39,840 --> 02:36:45,199
Speaker 1: My plasonality is very much lending itself to that um

2547
02:36:45,400 --> 02:36:50,120
Speaker 1: sort of outcome because I'm constantly like spinning a bunch

2548
02:36:50,200 --> 02:36:52,960
Speaker 1: of plates at the same time, and every time, like

2549
02:36:53,080 --> 02:36:54,959
Speaker 1: I dropped one, I put one down, I pick up

2550
02:36:55,000 --> 02:36:59,600
Speaker 1: the next one. And I'm not very good at relaxing usually.

2551
02:37:00,840 --> 02:37:03,720
Speaker 1: All right, I've basically been going non stop for a

2552
02:37:03,720 --> 02:37:13,240
Speaker 1: long long time, and I'm not alone because of adults

2553
02:37:13,240 --> 02:37:16,320
Speaker 1: suffer from chronic stress and to night to a sense

2554
02:37:16,320 --> 02:37:20,840
Speaker 1: of doctors visits are stress related and it's trash. You know,

2555
02:37:20,840 --> 02:37:23,160
Speaker 1: he feels in your skin and your muscle, in your bones.

2556
02:37:24,240 --> 02:37:26,880
Speaker 1: I remember this one. Someone was working at that same

2557
02:37:26,879 --> 02:37:29,720
Speaker 1: winery I was talking about in a recent episode. I

2558
02:37:29,760 --> 02:37:33,680
Speaker 1: was in UM and I'm sure my experience, it really

2559
02:37:33,680 --> 02:37:37,200
Speaker 1: felt like my blood was running into water, like I

2560
02:37:37,280 --> 02:37:39,879
Speaker 1: was barely eaten. It wasn't getting enough water, I wasn't

2561
02:37:40,760 --> 02:37:44,240
Speaker 1: perfectly hydrated and was just going We call that, we

2562
02:37:44,320 --> 02:37:50,280
Speaker 1: call that a reverse Jesus. When you're when you're I mean,

2563
02:37:50,879 --> 02:37:53,879
Speaker 1: I think when Jesus was stabbed. He did like bleed

2564
02:37:53,920 --> 02:38:00,480
Speaker 1: water for some reason. Yeah, treat ring. You know, they

2565
02:38:00,520 --> 02:38:04,520
Speaker 1: tell the story and I think all bodies tell the

2566
02:38:04,600 --> 02:38:07,000
Speaker 1: story as well, and for a lot of us that

2567
02:38:07,160 --> 02:38:11,120
Speaker 1: story is stress rather because of events or thoughts or

2568
02:38:11,200 --> 02:38:16,560
Speaker 1: circumstances that needs frustration. Angle new business, do you mistress?

2569
02:38:18,879 --> 02:38:20,360
Speaker 1: What would you guys say, is some of your like

2570
02:38:20,920 --> 02:38:30,680
Speaker 1: mean stress triggers? I was going to say family, most

2571
02:38:30,680 --> 02:38:34,040
Speaker 1: of it's probably work related, based on the type of

2572
02:38:35,360 --> 02:38:42,240
Speaker 1: things I surround myself with for over twelve hours a day. Yeah,

2573
02:38:42,280 --> 02:38:44,640
Speaker 1: I think for me it's it's work, and then it's

2574
02:38:44,640 --> 02:38:48,800
Speaker 1: a lot of just sort of like personal life stuff.

2575
02:38:48,840 --> 02:38:51,760
Speaker 1: I have to do stuff which is just like like

2576
02:38:51,800 --> 02:38:54,760
Speaker 1: I'm trying to move right now, and that's like incredibly stressful.

2577
02:38:55,080 --> 02:39:00,959
Speaker 1: And yeah, a medical stuff that's been that's been a

2578
02:39:01,920 --> 02:39:06,080
Speaker 1: holy hell. Yeah, we are excited that Chris is finally

2579
02:39:06,120 --> 02:39:09,440
Speaker 1: moving out of the hammer factory into the into the

2580
02:39:09,640 --> 02:39:12,360
Speaker 1: into the electric drill factory. So the audio will still

2581
02:39:12,360 --> 02:39:14,880
Speaker 1: be a bit weird. I mean, look, if if if

2582
02:39:15,280 --> 02:39:18,120
Speaker 1: it's if it's anything like college, it'll be twelve hours

2583
02:39:18,120 --> 02:39:20,000
Speaker 1: a day of a guy with a jackhammer directly below

2584
02:39:20,040 --> 02:39:23,080
Speaker 1: my window. Which you'll all get to hear an incredibly

2585
02:39:23,160 --> 02:39:27,480
Speaker 1: large amount of It's gonna be great. That's fantastic. That's

2586
02:39:27,480 --> 02:39:30,400
Speaker 1: a perfect encapsulation of exactly the topic we'll talk kind

2587
02:39:30,400 --> 02:39:34,880
Speaker 1: of about. It's like a jackhammer on your brain constantly.

2588
02:39:36,480 --> 02:39:38,400
Speaker 1: I mean, that's on the only form of stress. I mean,

2589
02:39:38,400 --> 02:39:42,240
Speaker 1: there's a stress that comes from like loss stress, it

2590
02:39:42,280 --> 02:39:45,360
Speaker 1: comes from like social drift stress. It comes from like

2591
02:39:45,360 --> 02:39:51,360
Speaker 1: this consumers rotteries, um, you know, mental illness, just general

2592
02:39:51,440 --> 02:39:57,520
Speaker 1: uncutainty and change and grief and guilt and trauma, um,

2593
02:39:57,680 --> 02:40:01,400
Speaker 1: you know, dicty to ship that a lot of people

2594
02:40:01,440 --> 02:40:07,480
Speaker 1: are subject to, and of course climate change go to

2595
02:40:07,560 --> 02:40:18,920
Speaker 1: a climate change. I think more and more people need

2596
02:40:18,959 --> 02:40:23,240
Speaker 1: to realize there was a stress is a symptom of

2597
02:40:23,320 --> 02:40:30,360
Speaker 1: like systemic violence. You know, when we're dealing with these

2598
02:40:30,400 --> 02:40:33,840
Speaker 1: headaches and sleep problems and muscle opinions and digestive problems

2599
02:40:33,840 --> 02:40:37,720
Speaker 1: and sex problems and blood pressures, use and moodliness and

2600
02:40:37,760 --> 02:40:42,280
Speaker 1: restlessness and demotivation and irritability and substance abuse and all

2601
02:40:42,280 --> 02:40:48,280
Speaker 1: these other responses and consequences. It's just the outcome of

2602
02:40:48,360 --> 02:40:53,640
Speaker 1: daily systemic violence, of the way that this system deprives

2603
02:40:53,840 --> 02:40:59,039
Speaker 1: us of support and care that how it atomizes us,

2604
02:40:59,040 --> 02:41:03,680
Speaker 1: how it contro rules us and really squeezes us forward worth.

2605
02:41:05,200 --> 02:41:09,160
Speaker 1: I mean it's not to say that like there's no

2606
02:41:09,280 --> 02:41:13,480
Speaker 1: stress outside of capitalism, or that stress is a capitalist invention.

2607
02:41:13,560 --> 02:41:18,800
Speaker 1: Absolutely not. I mean stress in small doses to be

2608
02:41:18,840 --> 02:41:23,480
Speaker 1: a good indicator in certains vibal situations that need to

2609
02:41:23,560 --> 02:41:29,040
Speaker 1: change the situation um motivation to act, you know. But

2610
02:41:30,280 --> 02:41:36,080
Speaker 1: and the capitalism is really pathological, and yet you gotta

2611
02:41:36,120 --> 02:41:39,160
Speaker 1: keep playing normal. You have to keep on pretending that

2612
02:41:39,240 --> 02:41:42,640
Speaker 1: everything is okay. I mean, we all know how deeply

2613
02:41:42,720 --> 02:41:46,959
Speaker 1: unhealthy this society is, how deeply an equalist society is.

2614
02:41:47,200 --> 02:41:51,400
Speaker 1: Many people didn't stress related illnesses. Are people don't like

2615
02:41:51,480 --> 02:41:56,680
Speaker 1: hyper vigilance? Are we a constantly scanning this urban jungle

2616
02:41:57,760 --> 02:42:03,720
Speaker 1: for threats? But of of insecurity and decimation of public

2617
02:42:03,800 --> 02:42:08,880
Speaker 1: life and of entire economies in sectors as like well

2618
02:42:08,920 --> 02:42:12,000
Speaker 1: held in captivity. I will say one thing, and that

2619
02:42:12,120 --> 02:42:14,640
Speaker 1: is that while capitalism produces a lot of stress, it

2620
02:42:14,800 --> 02:42:20,520
Speaker 1: was so alleviates stress by producing an economy organized around

2621
02:42:20,560 --> 02:42:25,600
Speaker 1: the production and circulation of addictive substances and practices of

2622
02:42:25,800 --> 02:42:28,440
Speaker 1: all these different vices that you know, people pick up.

2623
02:42:29,400 --> 02:42:32,280
Speaker 1: I mean if you look at the roots of capitalism

2624
02:42:32,360 --> 02:42:36,240
Speaker 1: and how capitalism really funded itself initially through the plantation

2625
02:42:36,280 --> 02:42:41,160
Speaker 1: economies and the Caribbean and the rest of America's um

2626
02:42:41,200 --> 02:42:46,680
Speaker 1: you know, growing like sugar and tobacco and you know,

2627
02:42:46,720 --> 02:42:53,760
Speaker 1: producing all these spirits and chocolate and coffee. The thing

2628
02:42:53,879 --> 02:42:58,320
Speaker 1: that that that that helped bring capitalism to fruition and

2629
02:42:58,360 --> 02:43:02,320
Speaker 1: helped fund industrial capitalist soon is the thing that people

2630
02:43:02,320 --> 02:43:05,480
Speaker 1: are using to self medicate in response the effects of

2631
02:43:06,000 --> 02:43:10,720
Speaker 1: the now global capitalist dominance. And people love off their

2632
02:43:10,760 --> 02:43:13,960
Speaker 1: chocolate and their coffee. Personally, I'm not a big fan

2633
02:43:14,280 --> 02:43:20,480
Speaker 1: of coffee. I think it's tastes disgusting, but you know, yeah,

2634
02:43:20,520 --> 02:43:23,720
Speaker 1: I tried it once and it was like it tastes

2635
02:43:23,760 --> 02:43:27,800
Speaker 1: like the sensation of burning. You know, I just wasn't

2636
02:43:27,840 --> 02:43:31,520
Speaker 1: having it. I like the smell for some reason, like

2637
02:43:31,560 --> 02:43:34,800
Speaker 1: the smell of coffee beans, but the actual taste is

2638
02:43:34,920 --> 02:43:39,000
Speaker 1: like nah. And surprisingly, I actually used to not like

2639
02:43:39,120 --> 02:43:41,720
Speaker 1: chocolate as a child. It is only when I matured

2640
02:43:41,760 --> 02:43:45,680
Speaker 1: my taste buds that I actually came around to it. Ironically,

2641
02:43:48,360 --> 02:43:49,760
Speaker 1: and of course we don't think of these things as

2642
02:43:50,000 --> 02:43:56,080
Speaker 1: you know, spaces or medications, but they're like small pleasures

2643
02:43:56,120 --> 02:43:59,720
Speaker 1: that help us get through our day. Practically everybody is

2644
02:44:00,320 --> 02:44:03,360
Speaker 1: some level of alcoholic these days. And of course there's

2645
02:44:03,400 --> 02:44:08,879
Speaker 1: social media, which is like algorithmically teelered and tuned to

2646
02:44:09,040 --> 02:44:12,840
Speaker 1: keep us on it, to keep us like it. Basically

2647
02:44:12,879 --> 02:44:16,040
Speaker 1: like like a puppet master controuls the highs and lows

2648
02:44:16,080 --> 02:44:19,760
Speaker 1: of all emotions on a daily basis. It basically functions

2649
02:44:19,760 --> 02:44:22,280
Speaker 1: as an addictive drug. It just the drug is just

2650
02:44:22,959 --> 02:44:25,400
Speaker 1: is caused by chemical reactions in your own brain, but

2651
02:44:25,440 --> 02:44:28,920
Speaker 1: it's manipulating your brain into causing it to happen um.

2652
02:44:28,959 --> 02:44:33,320
Speaker 1: But it's it's a very similar addictive process that has like,

2653
02:44:33,720 --> 02:44:36,520
Speaker 1: you know, a reward system. You know that. That's why,

2654
02:44:36,640 --> 02:44:39,880
Speaker 1: like around a decade ago, a lot of social media

2655
02:44:39,920 --> 02:44:44,320
Speaker 1: companies changed their UM loading style to be like you

2656
02:44:44,400 --> 02:44:47,119
Speaker 1: like scroll it down and it flicks back up, which

2657
02:44:47,200 --> 02:44:51,520
Speaker 1: was specifically it was specifically copying a slot machine. Because

2658
02:44:51,560 --> 02:44:54,360
Speaker 1: it is it's it's like an addictive pattern that's ingrained

2659
02:44:54,400 --> 02:44:58,840
Speaker 1: into what we find pleasurable. So it's it's all like

2660
02:44:58,959 --> 02:45:00,960
Speaker 1: none of this is this isn't new information to a

2661
02:45:01,000 --> 02:45:04,160
Speaker 1: lot of people, but like it's all obviously very intentional

2662
02:45:04,240 --> 02:45:07,840
Speaker 1: to it's designed to be extremely addictive. Yeah, and this

2663
02:45:07,840 --> 02:45:09,640
Speaker 1: this is just like this is just like what like

2664
02:45:09,760 --> 02:45:12,200
Speaker 1: most of gaming is now too where it's like, I mean, okay,

2665
02:45:12,240 --> 02:45:15,000
Speaker 1: like you're playing a video game, right yeah, but like

2666
02:45:15,080 --> 02:45:17,720
Speaker 1: yeah and now and now literally like the the the

2667
02:45:17,800 --> 02:45:21,440
Speaker 1: revenue model of the gaming industry is selling gambling to children.

2668
02:45:22,120 --> 02:45:24,199
Speaker 1: You know that. That is My one who complained about

2669
02:45:24,240 --> 02:45:27,879
Speaker 1: casinos is that eight year olds couldn't spend thousands of

2670
02:45:27,879 --> 02:45:32,600
Speaker 1: dollars of their parents money on skins. Now, thanks thanks

2671
02:45:32,640 --> 02:45:35,960
Speaker 1: to the wonders of gaming, eight year olds too can

2672
02:45:36,000 --> 02:45:38,480
Speaker 1: basically just live in a casino in their own bedroom

2673
02:45:38,600 --> 02:45:45,560
Speaker 1: all the time. Modern society. Okay, there's there's there's conflicting

2674
02:45:45,560 --> 02:45:49,160
Speaker 1: accounts about this, but there's there's a new like free

2675
02:45:49,200 --> 02:45:53,800
Speaker 1: to play Dio Diablo game. And yes, that the the

2676
02:45:53,920 --> 02:45:56,800
Speaker 1: amount of money it would take to get like a

2677
02:45:56,840 --> 02:46:00,320
Speaker 1: max level character in this game I have seen. Okay,

2678
02:46:00,320 --> 02:46:03,800
Speaker 1: I I've I've the latest calculation I've seen is saying

2679
02:46:03,800 --> 02:46:07,440
Speaker 1: it would take over five thousand dollars. The lowest range

2680
02:46:07,480 --> 02:46:09,320
Speaker 1: calculation of how much it would cost I've seen was

2681
02:46:09,360 --> 02:46:12,720
Speaker 1: about fifty tho it's probably at least a hundred thousand

2682
02:46:12,720 --> 02:46:16,600
Speaker 1: dollars to literally get the guy's level characters in games.

2683
02:46:16,640 --> 02:46:20,680
Speaker 1: It is like like this is this problem is exactly

2684
02:46:20,680 --> 02:46:25,520
Speaker 1: where why that's problem is exactly why. Um, the only

2685
02:46:25,520 --> 02:46:27,440
Speaker 1: mobile games I play us to do a Google on

2686
02:46:27,520 --> 02:46:34,879
Speaker 1: mine sweep and even those have ads. Yeah, I did

2687
02:46:34,920 --> 02:46:38,400
Speaker 1: have a brief for it until among us, but that, um,

2688
02:46:38,440 --> 02:46:44,240
Speaker 1: that period has has ended. Un Plus, this is also

2689
02:46:44,280 --> 02:46:47,680
Speaker 1: why I tend to you know, sail the high seas,

2690
02:46:47,760 --> 02:46:53,320
Speaker 1: if you know what I'm saying. The funny thing is

2691
02:46:53,360 --> 02:46:56,800
Speaker 1: that we don't have to do this, and I mean

2692
02:46:57,800 --> 02:47:01,240
Speaker 1: it's kind of all the us. It's kind of like

2693
02:47:03,440 --> 02:47:05,840
Speaker 1: it's a phrase I'm looking forward, like it doesn't need

2694
02:47:05,879 --> 02:47:07,400
Speaker 1: to be said, but it also kind of needs to

2695
02:47:07,400 --> 02:47:12,080
Speaker 1: be said. That we built We built this society, and

2696
02:47:13,280 --> 02:47:15,240
Speaker 1: as people within it, we do have the power to

2697
02:47:15,320 --> 02:47:18,360
Speaker 1: change it. We don't have to work as much as

2698
02:47:18,360 --> 02:47:21,480
Speaker 1: we do. We don't have to you know, structure and

2699
02:47:21,520 --> 02:47:26,960
Speaker 1: attend school the way that we do. I mean, even

2700
02:47:27,200 --> 02:47:29,840
Speaker 1: under capitalism, there there are people who are starting to

2701
02:47:29,920 --> 02:47:33,000
Speaker 1: shift from that hour a week day which we had

2702
02:47:33,040 --> 02:47:36,200
Speaker 1: to fight for a lot of people died for, um

2703
02:47:36,440 --> 02:47:39,000
Speaker 1: till you know, three to six hours a day, which

2704
02:47:40,440 --> 02:47:44,760
Speaker 1: or four hours pretty it depends. UM. I think that's

2705
02:47:44,760 --> 02:47:48,800
Speaker 1: the one on experiment was like six hour days, four

2706
02:47:48,879 --> 02:47:55,440
Speaker 1: days a week or something like that. But despite you know,

2707
02:47:55,640 --> 02:47:58,160
Speaker 1: studies coming out and saying that humans grooling is sup

2708
02:47:58,200 --> 02:48:04,520
Speaker 1: productive in a certain period of time uninterrupted, it doesn't matter,

2709
02:48:04,840 --> 02:48:07,800
Speaker 1: you know, despite the fact that you know, productivity decreases,

2710
02:48:09,040 --> 02:48:11,959
Speaker 1: it's not like productivity rises or the amount to hours

2711
02:48:12,000 --> 02:48:16,160
Speaker 1: you work. It doesn't matter. I mean, I remember when

2712
02:48:16,160 --> 02:48:18,959
Speaker 1: I was working in a um an insurance company. I

2713
02:48:19,080 --> 02:48:22,960
Speaker 1: was a people pusher, just like scanning documents and uploading

2714
02:48:23,040 --> 02:48:25,879
Speaker 1: documents and then scanning some more documents and then uploading

2715
02:48:25,879 --> 02:48:28,120
Speaker 1: those documents, and then every once in a while I

2716
02:48:28,120 --> 02:48:32,840
Speaker 1: got to print documents. Exciting um but I was dealing

2717
02:48:32,920 --> 02:48:41,560
Speaker 1: with like a backlog of documents, and I was typically

2718
02:48:41,600 --> 02:48:44,920
Speaker 1: able to get like a decent chunk of the work

2719
02:48:44,959 --> 02:48:48,280
Speaker 1: done within like the first two to three hours, as

2720
02:48:48,320 --> 02:48:55,560
Speaker 1: in like having it fully sorted, scanned, uploaded, completed, you know.

2721
02:48:55,640 --> 02:49:01,320
Speaker 1: But unfortunately I had to be there for eight hours,

2722
02:49:02,440 --> 02:49:05,480
Speaker 1: and so I had to drag out my day, you know,

2723
02:49:05,520 --> 02:49:09,120
Speaker 1: typically by listening to like the Communist Manifesto and audiobook

2724
02:49:10,000 --> 02:49:13,040
Speaker 1: yea or The Conquest of Bread and audiobook. I had

2725
02:49:13,040 --> 02:49:16,000
Speaker 1: to find things to do, is like make myself look busy,

2726
02:49:16,240 --> 02:49:19,760
Speaker 1: um what to like tovvy up my tasks and extend

2727
02:49:19,760 --> 02:49:25,120
Speaker 1: them and artificially stretch them out. Because instead of doing

2728
02:49:25,160 --> 02:49:29,240
Speaker 1: this BS job because I'm not doing this BS job

2729
02:49:29,280 --> 02:49:31,640
Speaker 1: at all, or instead of doing this b S job

2730
02:49:32,400 --> 02:49:37,640
Speaker 1: based on tasks completed rather than time spent, I had

2731
02:49:37,680 --> 02:49:40,199
Speaker 1: to rely on the time spent in the contractual hours.

2732
02:49:40,240 --> 02:49:42,920
Speaker 1: And of course the pay was terrible, but I mean

2733
02:49:42,920 --> 02:49:46,840
Speaker 1: that was expected at this point. But the whole point

2734
02:49:46,959 --> 02:49:50,280
Speaker 1: is really to like squeeze all our time and energy,

2735
02:49:51,040 --> 02:49:54,400
Speaker 1: so that's we're stressed out so that we don't have

2736
02:49:54,440 --> 02:49:57,920
Speaker 1: any leisure, so that you know, we look for convenience,

2737
02:49:58,000 --> 02:50:02,400
Speaker 1: and convenience is profitable. I mean, who really has the

2738
02:50:02,600 --> 02:50:05,240
Speaker 1: energy to fight for their rights when they don't even

2739
02:50:05,240 --> 02:50:07,880
Speaker 1: have the energy to cook a meal when they get home,

2740
02:50:08,879 --> 02:50:14,080
Speaker 1: you know. And it wasn't always like this. The social

2741
02:50:14,120 --> 02:50:20,920
Speaker 1: bond was broken by capitalism and replaced with the bond

2742
02:50:21,000 --> 02:50:26,520
Speaker 1: to money, and until we like sever that bond, nothing's

2743
02:50:26,520 --> 02:50:30,720
Speaker 1: going to change. The question is how can we address stress? Right,

2744
02:50:30,760 --> 02:50:34,440
Speaker 1: and so capitalism has an answer, um and then there's

2745
02:50:34,480 --> 02:50:40,959
Speaker 1: like an actual proper, real systemic answer, And personally, I

2746
02:50:41,000 --> 02:50:47,720
Speaker 1: deal with stressed by just not thinking about it. Um,

2747
02:50:47,720 --> 02:50:51,760
Speaker 1: But I mean, what what do you guys do be

2748
02:50:51,959 --> 02:50:59,759
Speaker 1: really sad? I was talking about like like mitigation strategies

2749
02:50:59,840 --> 02:51:03,279
Speaker 1: you know that I don't know, Like when it's nice already,

2750
02:51:03,320 --> 02:51:07,520
Speaker 1: like I go take walks, Um, looks are nice. Yeah,

2751
02:51:07,640 --> 02:51:10,920
Speaker 1: I have a have a shark that I got from

2752
02:51:10,959 --> 02:51:14,039
Speaker 1: somewhere that's like it's like the like the squashy phone material,

2753
02:51:14,080 --> 02:51:16,960
Speaker 1: but just a shark it rules. Do you have an

2754
02:51:17,000 --> 02:51:20,040
Speaker 1: idea shark? No? No, no, no, no, it's okay, it's

2755
02:51:20,200 --> 02:51:25,600
Speaker 1: all right. It's like a stress ball. But about to

2756
02:51:25,640 --> 02:51:28,640
Speaker 1: just like yeah, that's very funny. I don't have a

2757
02:51:28,800 --> 02:51:33,520
Speaker 1: whatever that I don't know what. I don't know. I

2758
02:51:33,520 --> 02:51:36,600
Speaker 1: don't know how to say it either. I don't know.

2759
02:51:36,760 --> 02:51:40,000
Speaker 1: I've been trying to get back into doing more park

2760
02:51:40,080 --> 02:51:47,320
Speaker 1: or training when I'm stressed, but honestly, it's a lot

2761
02:51:47,320 --> 02:51:49,160
Speaker 1: of the time I just do stuff that I know

2762
02:51:49,400 --> 02:51:52,880
Speaker 1: I am capable of, which oftentimes is the same thing

2763
02:51:53,040 --> 02:51:54,400
Speaker 1: that kind of caused me to get stressed in the

2764
02:51:54,440 --> 02:52:00,760
Speaker 1: first place. Looking at nonsense propaganda, writing about it, writing

2765
02:52:00,800 --> 02:52:06,080
Speaker 1: about like different like philosophies around Doumerism, and like because

2766
02:52:06,080 --> 02:52:09,240
Speaker 1: those are things I just my my brain can just

2767
02:52:09,400 --> 02:52:12,279
Speaker 1: do with little efforts. So it's almost it's almost peaceful

2768
02:52:12,320 --> 02:52:16,280
Speaker 1: in a way. Yeah, it's it's it's bizarre. Mean in

2769
02:52:16,320 --> 02:52:18,360
Speaker 1: some ways you would think that these things are what's

2770
02:52:18,360 --> 02:52:20,760
Speaker 1: causing me to have problems, but also in a lot

2771
02:52:20,760 --> 02:52:23,960
Speaker 1: of ways that kind of calms me down. Um, to

2772
02:52:24,080 --> 02:52:26,160
Speaker 1: look at a whole bunch of this type of thing,

2773
02:52:26,280 --> 02:52:28,320
Speaker 1: or to write about it, or to like try to

2774
02:52:28,400 --> 02:52:31,959
Speaker 1: like you know, just do like formatting inside like a

2775
02:52:32,000 --> 02:52:35,080
Speaker 1: Google doc about it. Um, I don't know. It's like

2776
02:52:35,120 --> 02:52:37,720
Speaker 1: it's like sorting out this stuff. It's almost like this

2777
02:52:37,879 --> 02:52:42,920
Speaker 1: this idea, This is like um thing called knowling. It's

2778
02:52:42,920 --> 02:52:44,280
Speaker 1: when you get a whole bunch of stuff out on

2779
02:52:44,320 --> 02:52:47,560
Speaker 1: the floor and you sort it into piles. It's done

2780
02:52:47,600 --> 02:52:49,360
Speaker 1: with like Lego a lot if you dump a giant

2781
02:52:49,440 --> 02:52:52,200
Speaker 1: like box of Lego for all these different legal pieces, Um,

2782
02:52:52,280 --> 02:52:54,000
Speaker 1: if you're gonna annul them, you're gonna take all the

2783
02:52:54,040 --> 02:52:56,120
Speaker 1: pieces that are like the same color or size and

2784
02:52:56,160 --> 02:52:59,040
Speaker 1: sort them into their little places. It's it's it's so

2785
02:52:59,080 --> 02:53:01,160
Speaker 1: it's I kind of do that but with like ideas,

2786
02:53:01,879 --> 02:53:04,720
Speaker 1: um and like and like with writing projects, I dump

2787
02:53:04,760 --> 02:53:07,280
Speaker 1: out all the things I'm currently thinking about into like

2788
02:53:07,320 --> 02:53:09,280
Speaker 1: a spreadsheet or a Google doc and sort them into

2789
02:53:09,280 --> 02:53:11,760
Speaker 1: related topics to be like, Okay, here's how this thing

2790
02:53:11,879 --> 02:53:14,520
Speaker 1: leads into this thing, and I just it's like that

2791
02:53:14,560 --> 02:53:18,000
Speaker 1: kind of like organizational thing. Um. So like like how

2792
02:53:18,160 --> 02:53:20,240
Speaker 1: organizing is kind of like a therapeutic thing. So it's

2793
02:53:20,240 --> 02:53:22,920
Speaker 1: like I can do that with all of the random

2794
02:53:22,959 --> 02:53:25,840
Speaker 1: stuff floating around in my brain. Sometimes I'll try to

2795
02:53:25,920 --> 02:53:27,560
Speaker 1: like just sort of out. Even if it doesn't get

2796
02:53:27,560 --> 02:53:30,080
Speaker 1: turned into like a work project, it's still like it's

2797
02:53:30,240 --> 02:53:36,560
Speaker 1: like an external way to sort out my thoughts, right, Sufie,

2798
02:53:38,879 --> 02:53:43,880
Speaker 1: I have a dog, very good dog of a dog.

2799
02:53:44,160 --> 02:53:48,960
Speaker 1: We listen to music, we go outside. We'll like to

2800
02:53:49,000 --> 02:53:53,160
Speaker 1: go to the park and listen to music outside. You know,

2801
02:53:54,640 --> 02:53:57,480
Speaker 1: that's the basically work a lot. But work is also

2802
02:53:57,600 --> 02:54:01,600
Speaker 1: like if I don't work, I'm more stressed exactly exactly. Yeah,

2803
02:54:01,640 --> 02:54:07,160
Speaker 1: I definitely relate. I relate to that, which is like

2804
02:54:07,200 --> 02:54:09,800
Speaker 1: a lapdog for I know, right, Like it's not something

2805
02:54:09,879 --> 02:54:14,039
Speaker 1: that like proud of, but also like, you know, I'm

2806
02:54:14,120 --> 02:54:17,240
Speaker 1: lucky enough. Nothing that's indicative of the problem, right, Like,

2807
02:54:17,800 --> 02:54:21,199
Speaker 1: it's not like people don't necessarily like to work, don't

2808
02:54:21,200 --> 02:54:26,360
Speaker 1: necessarily like to leave, Yes, she was like not having

2809
02:54:27,200 --> 02:54:30,160
Speaker 1: what's one to me? You know, because I mean if

2810
02:54:31,320 --> 02:54:33,080
Speaker 1: most of the things I do for work now are

2811
02:54:33,120 --> 02:54:35,760
Speaker 1: things that I've been doing for years unpaid because I

2812
02:54:35,840 --> 02:54:38,440
Speaker 1: was just interested in them. So you know, if we're

2813
02:54:38,480 --> 02:54:41,520
Speaker 1: talking about theorizing about like a post work world, yeah,

2814
02:54:41,560 --> 02:54:43,440
Speaker 1: people are still going to do all kinds of ship.

2815
02:54:44,000 --> 02:54:47,879
Speaker 1: Obviously there's questions around, you know, tasks which are not

2816
02:54:48,040 --> 02:54:50,280
Speaker 1: like not the most fun to do. As we've had

2817
02:54:50,280 --> 02:54:53,560
Speaker 1: discussions on antiwork stuff before, but for a lot of stuff,

2818
02:54:53,600 --> 02:54:56,280
Speaker 1: everyone has little interests in little skills that they find

2819
02:54:56,360 --> 02:54:59,280
Speaker 1: kind of slightly therapeutic. And also like you know, it's

2820
02:54:59,360 --> 02:55:00,920
Speaker 1: in terms of us to know what wants to do.

2821
02:55:01,000 --> 02:55:03,200
Speaker 1: Like I fixed my own plumbing in my bathtub a

2822
02:55:03,240 --> 02:55:05,480
Speaker 1: few weeks ago because my landlord it's not going to

2823
02:55:05,600 --> 02:55:08,240
Speaker 1: do that. So like, you know, people when you when

2824
02:55:08,280 --> 02:55:10,000
Speaker 1: when you have to do something, you kind of become

2825
02:55:10,040 --> 02:55:12,920
Speaker 1: capable of it. That's fair. I think one of the

2826
02:55:12,920 --> 02:55:16,119
Speaker 1: most popular responses, like the stress is COMPLISSM and pooses

2827
02:55:17,160 --> 02:55:20,000
Speaker 1: is like this concept of self care, you know, this

2828
02:55:20,000 --> 02:55:22,119
Speaker 1: way of escape from from the grind of it all

2829
02:55:22,320 --> 02:55:26,480
Speaker 1: and sure dealing with you know, with issues by like

2830
02:55:27,040 --> 02:55:31,000
Speaker 1: getting to bed early and eating well and physical exercise,

2831
02:55:31,080 --> 02:55:34,080
Speaker 1: which I've been doing a lots of, um, you know,

2832
02:55:34,440 --> 02:55:39,480
Speaker 1: and and all that we have to change your little

2833
02:55:39,560 --> 02:55:43,000
Speaker 1: drug into like into like the chat version. Well I

2834
02:55:43,000 --> 02:55:52,840
Speaker 1: actually did that recently. That's great. Yeah, it's definitely you

2835
02:55:52,879 --> 02:55:56,480
Speaker 1: know this thing also things like like Jornane and meditation

2836
02:55:56,680 --> 02:56:01,360
Speaker 1: and yoka and all that. As I mean, you never

2837
02:56:01,520 --> 02:56:04,000
Speaker 1: never really got into meditation because I tried it a

2838
02:56:04,080 --> 02:56:06,840
Speaker 1: couple of times and every time I do, I kind

2839
02:56:06,840 --> 02:56:11,959
Speaker 1: of fall asleep. I definitely do some meditation stuff, um,

2840
02:56:12,040 --> 02:56:13,959
Speaker 1: but that's what's kind of slightly part of my like

2841
02:56:14,720 --> 02:56:17,360
Speaker 1: metaphysics interest um. And I mean also mean like in

2842
02:56:17,400 --> 02:56:19,920
Speaker 1: terms of like self care practices in that vein that

2843
02:56:19,959 --> 02:56:23,320
Speaker 1: can help you kind of relax. There's obviously stuff like

2844
02:56:23,360 --> 02:56:26,120
Speaker 1: you know, mushrooms are m D M A, which if

2845
02:56:26,200 --> 02:56:29,720
Speaker 1: done and you know proper, you know, it's space spaced out,

2846
02:56:29,800 --> 02:56:31,560
Speaker 1: not not doing them all the time, but doing them

2847
02:56:31,800 --> 02:56:37,120
Speaker 1: at certain intervals, um, can definitely be be therapeutic in

2848
02:56:37,160 --> 02:56:42,080
Speaker 1: their own way. Or Drey Lord, one of the foremost

2849
02:56:43,120 --> 02:56:47,360
Speaker 1: black feminist scholars of our time, one set and I

2850
02:56:47,440 --> 02:56:50,320
Speaker 1: returned to it is cool to lot um. Karen for

2851
02:56:50,360 --> 02:56:53,160
Speaker 1: myself is not an act of self intelligence. It is

2852
02:56:53,200 --> 02:56:57,959
Speaker 1: self preservation, and that is an active political warfare. Self

2853
02:56:58,000 --> 02:57:01,040
Speaker 1: care used to me in prison, on yourself in a

2854
02:57:01,120 --> 02:57:06,440
Speaker 1: world hostility, very identity community. We have life event not

2855
02:57:06,720 --> 02:57:09,560
Speaker 1: we gin yourself to an early grieve, you know, practicing

2856
02:57:09,640 --> 02:57:14,840
Speaker 1: say and new and being mindful of your sensitivities and triggers.

2857
02:57:15,959 --> 02:57:20,879
Speaker 1: And then you know, as white corporate feminism does, white

2858
02:57:20,879 --> 02:57:25,520
Speaker 1: corporate feminism appropriated it and turned it into a industry

2859
02:57:25,800 --> 02:57:29,920
Speaker 1: now worth a start or and eleven billion dollars. I

2860
02:57:29,959 --> 02:57:32,160
Speaker 1: mean now self care. When people think of self care,

2861
02:57:32,160 --> 02:57:36,000
Speaker 1: it's all about intelligent cosmetics and serious bodies and overpriced

2862
02:57:36,040 --> 02:57:40,560
Speaker 1: candles and quintin expensive qualities and subscriptions to social media

2863
02:57:40,959 --> 02:57:44,160
Speaker 1: apps that are about like and it's it's turned into

2864
02:57:44,240 --> 02:57:47,879
Speaker 1: this own like grifting industry almost like that that the

2865
02:57:47,959 --> 02:57:51,879
Speaker 1: self care industry. It's like self care influencers and self

2866
02:57:51,879 --> 02:57:56,240
Speaker 1: care content creators and like it's just like it. It

2867
02:57:56,320 --> 02:57:59,840
Speaker 1: just gets it gets the same icky de realization for

2868
02:58:00,040 --> 02:58:03,720
Speaker 1: think that everything else under capitalism is slowly getting Yeah,

2869
02:58:03,840 --> 02:58:07,160
Speaker 1: I mean they even have like their own self care funds,

2870
02:58:07,240 --> 02:58:08,480
Speaker 1: like if you not. Just a lot of self care

2871
02:58:08,520 --> 02:58:11,760
Speaker 1: content has a very specific visual style yeah, you know,

2872
02:58:12,959 --> 02:58:15,480
Speaker 1: I mean hashtog self can Instagram just like a bottomless

2873
02:58:15,520 --> 02:58:19,880
Speaker 1: screwl of graphics and products. It just makes me feel

2874
02:58:19,959 --> 02:58:22,400
Speaker 1: kind of unsettled. It kind of has this like uncanny

2875
02:58:22,440 --> 02:58:25,920
Speaker 1: aspect to it, Yeah, because it's almost as of self

2876
02:58:25,920 --> 02:58:28,120
Speaker 1: care is unaccessible to the wise was creepy to help

2877
02:58:28,120 --> 02:58:32,560
Speaker 1: the moves. Yeah, yeah, I mean there's there's that. I mean,

2878
02:58:32,640 --> 02:58:35,560
Speaker 1: the fundamental part of the uncanny is that is that

2879
02:58:35,720 --> 02:58:38,680
Speaker 1: disconnect where they the gap between the phenomenon and the

2880
02:58:38,760 --> 02:58:41,240
Speaker 1: thing is really is really big and you can't really

2881
02:58:41,280 --> 02:58:44,080
Speaker 1: understand why it's uncanny, but if you think about it,

2882
02:58:44,080 --> 02:58:46,720
Speaker 1: it's because that gap between the thing what's supposed to

2883
02:58:46,720 --> 02:58:49,680
Speaker 1: be doing is so large. So yeah, this thing that's

2884
02:58:49,680 --> 02:58:53,199
Speaker 1: supposed to help all these people is now of white

2885
02:58:53,280 --> 02:59:01,640
Speaker 1: millennial like like up like middle upper class like aesthetic. Now, um,

2886
02:59:01,720 --> 02:59:07,560
Speaker 1: and that sucks exactly. I mean these days, the people

2887
02:59:08,000 --> 02:59:11,840
Speaker 1: like it's mostly a salve for like white collar workers

2888
02:59:12,040 --> 02:59:15,080
Speaker 1: whose jobs are also sucked in with their time managing creativity.

2889
02:59:15,080 --> 02:59:17,600
Speaker 1: But the people who are actually in the blue collar workers,

2890
02:59:18,040 --> 02:59:20,520
Speaker 1: they often have the time or money to be able

2891
02:59:20,520 --> 02:59:24,600
Speaker 1: to invest in themselves, not way self care and work

2892
02:59:24,680 --> 02:59:27,320
Speaker 1: collars and basically two sides of the same coin. Right,

2893
02:59:27,760 --> 02:59:30,480
Speaker 1: it's preserve yourself so you can produce small It's a

2894
02:59:30,520 --> 02:59:34,400
Speaker 1: solution to capitalism. Within capitalism, the solution doesn't actually alleviate

2895
02:59:34,440 --> 02:59:43,280
Speaker 1: the conditions and stress, but lines pockets and fuels the

2896
02:59:43,320 --> 02:59:46,840
Speaker 1: economic system that creates it in the first place. I mean,

2897
02:59:46,879 --> 02:59:49,680
Speaker 1: if you're selling self care helps that you've got a

2898
02:59:49,680 --> 02:59:53,680
Speaker 1: constant supply of customers living in perpetual anxiety and wellness

2899
02:59:55,600 --> 02:59:58,000
Speaker 1: rather than means of resistance to the system. It's been

2900
02:59:58,200 --> 03:00:03,360
Speaker 1: recognized by the system. It's become this performative thing we

2901
03:00:03,400 --> 03:00:05,600
Speaker 1: put on, this image of put togethernes where you carefully

2902
03:00:05,640 --> 03:00:08,920
Speaker 1: curate your feed and your Instagram stories in your highlights

2903
03:00:08,959 --> 03:00:15,120
Speaker 1: and as an individualized solutions systemic issues is it's like

2904
03:00:15,280 --> 03:00:18,280
Speaker 1: the system telling you to calm down. Why I continue

2905
03:00:18,320 --> 03:00:23,039
Speaker 1: to denegrate and and exploit you. None of these things

2906
03:00:23,040 --> 03:00:27,160
Speaker 1: address stress systematically. I'm not saying that it's necessarily bad

2907
03:00:27,360 --> 03:00:32,360
Speaker 1: to address stress individually, because everybody has their own personal conditions,

2908
03:00:32,680 --> 03:00:39,240
Speaker 1: but without dealing with the broader material conditions, Without addressing

2909
03:00:39,240 --> 03:00:42,959
Speaker 1: people's lack of free time, lack of access to social connection,

2910
03:00:43,080 --> 03:00:47,200
Speaker 1: lack of access to housing and healthy food, and fudable

2911
03:00:47,200 --> 03:00:54,360
Speaker 1: medical care. You know it, it misses the point. And

2912
03:00:54,360 --> 03:00:58,800
Speaker 1: I haven't I haven't read much um in the field

2913
03:00:58,840 --> 03:01:00,840
Speaker 1: of I believe there's some NICUs was when a lot

2914
03:01:00,840 --> 03:01:03,760
Speaker 1: of time writing and talking about it, but I haven't

2915
03:01:03,800 --> 03:01:07,959
Speaker 1: read much in the field of like psychotherapy and that

2916
03:01:08,080 --> 03:01:13,320
Speaker 1: sort of thing. But it's it's kind of a realization

2917
03:01:13,360 --> 03:01:17,560
Speaker 1: of me that therapy is basically focus in on fixing

2918
03:01:17,680 --> 03:01:21,800
Speaker 1: an individuals would just to a sick society, rather than

2919
03:01:22,160 --> 03:01:26,959
Speaker 1: healing the society itself, fixing the society itself. I mean,

2920
03:01:27,120 --> 03:01:30,879
Speaker 1: so much about their therapy is about, you know, addressing

2921
03:01:32,160 --> 03:01:37,560
Speaker 1: things that are impairing your functionality to complete your work. Yeah,

2922
03:01:37,600 --> 03:01:41,000
Speaker 1: Like it's it's all the base of mental healthness is

2923
03:01:41,000 --> 03:01:43,680
Speaker 1: is it inhibiting you from doing your job? And that's

2924
03:01:43,680 --> 03:01:46,080
Speaker 1: when it becomes a problem, and the only way to

2925
03:01:46,120 --> 03:01:49,680
Speaker 1: solve it is through it. Like, like what what deems

2926
03:01:49,720 --> 03:01:52,360
Speaker 1: a success is if you're able to complete your job

2927
03:01:52,440 --> 03:01:55,280
Speaker 1: at a high level of functioning. Again, it's not actually

2928
03:01:55,320 --> 03:01:58,600
Speaker 1: about your mental state, it's about how much you can

2929
03:01:58,959 --> 03:02:02,200
Speaker 1: produce center the calp C list framework. Yeah, And I

2930
03:02:02,200 --> 03:02:04,879
Speaker 1: mean not to say that that medication doesn't have a

2931
03:02:04,920 --> 03:02:09,240
Speaker 1: tremendous benefits in people's lives and you know, helping them

2932
03:02:09,320 --> 03:02:12,480
Speaker 1: get back on track and take control of their circumstances.

2933
03:02:13,720 --> 03:02:18,080
Speaker 1: But you know, when you have a society that has

2934
03:02:18,200 --> 03:02:22,920
Speaker 1: distress and misery and loneliness woven into it, um into

2935
03:02:22,959 --> 03:02:27,160
Speaker 1: its core, trying to adjust people and adapt people to

2936
03:02:27,280 --> 03:02:36,680
Speaker 1: that is just responding to sickness and more sickness. And

2937
03:02:36,720 --> 03:02:39,360
Speaker 1: you know me, I like to try and keep things

2938
03:02:39,360 --> 03:02:46,400
Speaker 1: on the practical, um helpful, positive side. You know, it

2939
03:02:46,680 --> 03:02:52,320
Speaker 1: could happen here and genuinely with a smiling face, you know,

2940
03:02:52,920 --> 03:02:56,560
Speaker 1: like it could happen here. Um. And so I just

2941
03:02:56,600 --> 03:03:01,280
Speaker 1: wanted to put forward some recommendations. I guess yeah, um.

2942
03:03:01,280 --> 03:03:04,119
Speaker 1: I mean, obviously we can't afford to wait until capitalism

2943
03:03:04,200 --> 03:03:07,800
Speaker 1: has been abolished to be happy. That's just ridiculous. I mean,

2944
03:03:07,879 --> 03:03:11,200
Speaker 1: that's long term cure for a lot of the moralities

2945
03:03:11,280 --> 03:03:18,400
Speaker 1: and and it's used people are facing um. But in

2946
03:03:18,400 --> 03:03:21,440
Speaker 1: the meantime, when assigned the roots of our stress in

2947
03:03:21,480 --> 03:03:24,879
Speaker 1: these systems can make the personal political and drive us

2948
03:03:24,879 --> 03:03:27,360
Speaker 1: to act and connect with people who can support us.

2949
03:03:28,560 --> 03:03:30,440
Speaker 1: I think that in organize in spaces, they need to

2950
03:03:30,440 --> 03:03:34,480
Speaker 1: be special attention but towards creating support groups that have

2951
03:03:34,959 --> 03:03:38,320
Speaker 1: allowed for solidarity to be built, you know, allowing people

2952
03:03:38,400 --> 03:03:41,440
Speaker 1: to share their feelings and work through the challenges together.

2953
03:03:41,959 --> 03:03:44,160
Speaker 1: Self care kind of frames things in a way that

2954
03:03:44,560 --> 03:03:47,039
Speaker 1: makes it seem as though healing has done on an

2955
03:03:47,040 --> 03:03:52,480
Speaker 1: individual level. When healing is communal, like you don't have

2956
03:03:52,520 --> 03:03:56,440
Speaker 1: to go through all this alone healing. It's an act

2957
03:03:56,480 --> 03:03:59,760
Speaker 1: of communion and the world must be force to change

2958
03:04:00,480 --> 03:04:07,320
Speaker 1: to reflect that, recognize that we have each other, and

2959
03:04:08,879 --> 03:04:11,800
Speaker 1: recognize that south care and community care and extricably linked.

2960
03:04:12,879 --> 03:04:19,959
Speaker 1: And once those facts at the forefront, once we put

2961
03:04:20,080 --> 03:04:23,240
Speaker 1: community care at the forefront, outside of the close of

2962
03:04:23,280 --> 03:04:29,800
Speaker 1: the market, accessible to all um, I think we can

2963
03:04:29,840 --> 03:04:32,960
Speaker 1: find hoope, you know. And it really it can start

2964
03:04:32,959 --> 03:04:36,440
Speaker 1: with something as simple as just reaching out, you know, um,

2965
03:04:36,680 --> 03:04:39,560
Speaker 1: grabbing groceries or twin dishes or watching kids. All the

2966
03:04:39,640 --> 03:04:44,840
Speaker 1: care work that is stept to the side when we

2967
03:04:44,879 --> 03:04:48,920
Speaker 1: think about organizing and what it means to organize, but

2968
03:04:49,240 --> 03:04:51,640
Speaker 1: with an your home, money, neighborhood, or at work or

2969
03:04:51,680 --> 03:04:58,840
Speaker 1: at school, because I think in especially neighborhood settings, developing

2970
03:04:58,840 --> 03:05:01,360
Speaker 1: that sense of new bliness consideringly help even something like

2971
03:05:01,400 --> 03:05:05,280
Speaker 1: a community garden being able to connect with Nietzsche again

2972
03:05:05,720 --> 03:05:07,960
Speaker 1: well at all for the first time. You can really

2973
03:05:08,000 --> 03:05:11,400
Speaker 1: help lifeheart and we don't have to make it harder

2974
03:05:11,440 --> 03:05:13,800
Speaker 1: for each other. So you can follow me on Twitter,

2975
03:05:15,360 --> 03:05:19,920
Speaker 1: I don't discuss seeming Drew on YouTube dot com, slash

2976
03:05:20,080 --> 03:05:26,000
Speaker 1: andreids m pature dot com slash seemed True and I

2977
03:05:26,080 --> 03:05:45,600
Speaker 1: have been your host of It Could Happen You Pece Hey.

2978
03:05:45,640 --> 03:05:49,640
Speaker 1: It's it Could Happen Here, a podcast about usually bad

2979
03:05:49,720 --> 03:05:52,560
Speaker 1: things happening, all the bad things that are happening everywhere,

2980
03:05:52,600 --> 03:05:55,840
Speaker 1: but occasionally about good things happening and people doing cool

2981
03:05:55,879 --> 03:05:58,440
Speaker 1: stuff to make a better world. And this Lucky you,

2982
03:05:58,680 --> 03:06:00,760
Speaker 1: Lucky all of us happens to be one of the

2983
03:06:00,840 --> 03:06:04,120
Speaker 1: latter kinds of episodes when we talk about good things happening.

2984
03:06:04,800 --> 03:06:07,480
Speaker 1: UH with me in the studio, which is more of

2985
03:06:07,520 --> 03:06:10,720
Speaker 1: an a femoral concept than a physical studio because there's

2986
03:06:10,720 --> 03:06:14,119
Speaker 1: a plague going on. Is James Stout and Garrison Davis

2987
03:06:14,480 --> 03:06:20,920
Speaker 1: co hosting the podcast Hello Fellas Now Today. The thing

2988
03:06:20,959 --> 03:06:23,960
Speaker 1: that we're talking about. UM, we we had about a

2989
03:06:23,959 --> 03:06:26,879
Speaker 1: week or so two weeks ago represent a couple of

2990
03:06:26,879 --> 03:06:30,279
Speaker 1: representatives from the Elm Fork John Brown Gun Club in Dallas,

2991
03:06:30,320 --> 03:06:33,320
Speaker 1: Texas come in UH, and they had been providing armed

2992
03:06:33,720 --> 03:06:36,760
Speaker 1: security at a couple of different Dallas area protests against

2993
03:06:36,840 --> 03:06:40,640
Speaker 1: Christian nationalists. UM. I do recommend checking out those episodes.

2994
03:06:41,120 --> 03:06:44,039
Speaker 1: This week, we have one representative from that organization back

2995
03:06:44,080 --> 03:06:46,560
Speaker 1: on and what we'll be talking about is there have

2996
03:06:46,600 --> 03:06:50,920
Speaker 1: been a series of attempted sweeps in Dallas at a

2997
03:06:50,920 --> 03:06:54,320
Speaker 1: homeless camp UM. And if you're not familiar with the concept, basically,

2998
03:06:55,160 --> 03:06:59,320
Speaker 1: people who are experiencing homelessness set up encampments in order

2999
03:06:59,360 --> 03:07:02,000
Speaker 1: to live with some degree of comfort and have you know,

3000
03:07:02,120 --> 03:07:05,280
Speaker 1: their stuff with them. UM. These are generally in places

3001
03:07:05,320 --> 03:07:10,560
Speaker 1: like parks, under overpasses, that kind of situation, and periodically

3002
03:07:10,640 --> 03:07:12,800
Speaker 1: the city will come through and sweep them. The city's

3003
03:07:12,879 --> 03:07:15,240
Speaker 1: language is always very much focused towards we're trying to

3004
03:07:15,280 --> 03:07:19,440
Speaker 1: help them, you know, get into some sort of situation

3005
03:07:19,480 --> 03:07:22,440
Speaker 1: where they can find help. But what usually winds up

3006
03:07:22,480 --> 03:07:25,199
Speaker 1: happening is the city takes a bunch of people's stuff

3007
03:07:25,240 --> 03:07:30,080
Speaker 1: and throws it in the trash, often before extreme weather events. UM.

3008
03:07:30,120 --> 03:07:33,200
Speaker 1: It's a really gnarly thing to experience, and activists in

3009
03:07:33,200 --> 03:07:36,760
Speaker 1: a number of cities have experimented with different tactics to

3010
03:07:36,800 --> 03:07:39,520
Speaker 1: try and stop and delay sweeps. And what we've had

3011
03:07:39,600 --> 03:07:43,880
Speaker 1: happening lately. Over the last week in Dallas is representatives

3012
03:07:43,959 --> 03:07:46,840
Speaker 1: of the Elm Fork John Brown Gun Club have been

3013
03:07:46,840 --> 03:07:51,560
Speaker 1: showing up armed alongside activists with Say It with Your

3014
03:07:51,600 --> 03:07:54,760
Speaker 1: Chest Dallas, And the kind of thing that's been spreading

3015
03:07:54,760 --> 03:07:57,280
Speaker 1: on Twitter is, of course the fact that activists have

3016
03:07:57,320 --> 03:07:59,000
Speaker 1: shown up with guns to stop the sweeps and the

3017
03:07:59,080 --> 03:08:01,400
Speaker 1: Dallas police have not shown up to do the sweeps.

3018
03:08:01,760 --> 03:08:03,480
Speaker 1: The thing that often gets missed in this kind of

3019
03:08:03,520 --> 03:08:06,080
Speaker 1: Twitter level discourse, although is covered in a pretty good

3020
03:08:06,160 --> 03:08:09,160
Speaker 1: Dallas Morning News article on the subject, is that there

3021
03:08:09,200 --> 03:08:11,560
Speaker 1: have also been activists, as I said, from the Say

3022
03:08:11,600 --> 03:08:14,119
Speaker 1: It with Your Chest movement, who have been showing up

3023
03:08:14,120 --> 03:08:17,760
Speaker 1: to help people, to provide laundry service, transportation, food and water.

3024
03:08:18,320 --> 03:08:20,680
Speaker 1: And essentially what they've been doing is trying to help

3025
03:08:20,680 --> 03:08:24,039
Speaker 1: people get things together and organized to move to a

3026
03:08:24,080 --> 03:08:28,480
Speaker 1: new location, um, in a manner that allows them to

3027
03:08:28,680 --> 03:08:31,320
Speaker 1: do so with like dignity and comfort and not get

3028
03:08:31,360 --> 03:08:34,080
Speaker 1: their stuff thrown out by the city or experienced violence

3029
03:08:34,120 --> 03:08:36,840
Speaker 1: from the police while it's happening. So um, that is

3030
03:08:36,879 --> 03:08:40,320
Speaker 1: the broad situation. I'm not gonna say anymore myself. I

3031
03:08:40,360 --> 03:08:43,040
Speaker 1: want to introduce Danny from Say with Your Chest Dallas

3032
03:08:43,080 --> 03:08:45,320
Speaker 1: and Bubble from the um Fort John Brown Gun Club.

3033
03:08:45,360 --> 03:08:47,520
Speaker 1: Thank you both for being on the show, Thanks for

3034
03:08:47,560 --> 03:08:50,800
Speaker 1: having me, Thank you for having us. Um was that

3035
03:08:50,840 --> 03:08:56,520
Speaker 1: a broadly accurate summary of events? Um? Yeah, for the

3036
03:08:56,600 --> 03:08:59,640
Speaker 1: for the most part, the city has actually been sweeping

3037
03:09:00,160 --> 03:09:05,600
Speaker 1: several They're they're cracking down on houselessness right now, very

3038
03:09:05,720 --> 03:09:08,920
Speaker 1: very aggressive. And so it's not just that one camp

3039
03:09:09,000 --> 03:09:11,959
Speaker 1: that we were defending the other day, but um, the

3040
03:09:12,080 --> 03:09:17,280
Speaker 1: monday before we were defending another camp. And UM, I've

3041
03:09:17,320 --> 03:09:20,640
Speaker 1: never seen this many sweeps happen at one time, and

3042
03:09:20,840 --> 03:09:23,080
Speaker 1: I've been doing this for a little over two years now.

3043
03:09:23,840 --> 03:09:25,600
Speaker 1: I want to actually go a little bit into how

3044
03:09:25,600 --> 03:09:28,119
Speaker 1: your organization formed, but before that, do you have any

3045
03:09:28,200 --> 03:09:31,879
Speaker 1: kind of can you posit why the city has suddenly

3046
03:09:32,040 --> 03:09:38,560
Speaker 1: ramped up sweeps so aggressively in Dallas so uh normally

3047
03:09:39,200 --> 03:09:41,800
Speaker 1: talking to the residents, I've never I've never seen it

3048
03:09:41,840 --> 03:09:44,000
Speaker 1: happen like multiple times in the week. Usually they'll do

3049
03:09:44,080 --> 03:09:48,240
Speaker 1: one uh way a little bit we'll hear a couple

3050
03:09:48,320 --> 03:09:51,640
Speaker 1: years later or something, but multiple in a week at

3051
03:09:51,680 --> 03:09:57,160
Speaker 1: different spots is definitely, um, definitely new to us. UM

3052
03:09:57,200 --> 03:10:01,039
Speaker 1: As for why the typical reason are like you know,

3053
03:10:01,080 --> 03:10:03,119
Speaker 1: the state there comes up in October, so they'll try

3054
03:10:03,160 --> 03:10:07,680
Speaker 1: to sweep then. UM. Or they'll do it um usually

3055
03:10:08,000 --> 03:10:12,400
Speaker 1: like a housing development UM and things like that, where

3056
03:10:12,480 --> 03:10:15,000
Speaker 1: like the land is brought up or you know something.

3057
03:10:15,080 --> 03:10:20,959
Speaker 1: But recently, UM, the motivations have been a little bit

3058
03:10:21,000 --> 03:10:29,920
Speaker 1: more unclear with the aggression. UM. It's kind of the

3059
03:10:29,920 --> 03:10:34,760
Speaker 1: the city in terms of how they execute sweeps. It

3060
03:10:34,959 --> 03:10:38,760
Speaker 1: used to be that code compliance could not touch people's belongings.

3061
03:10:39,720 --> 03:10:46,640
Speaker 1: Recently it has shifted to take everything, throw away everything. UM.

3062
03:10:46,720 --> 03:10:50,200
Speaker 1: But yeah, we still don't know why all happening yet.

3063
03:10:50,920 --> 03:10:53,960
Speaker 1: It is certainly like part of a nationwide trend because

3064
03:10:53,959 --> 03:10:57,240
Speaker 1: we're having the same things happen in Portland increasingly. And

3065
03:10:57,240 --> 03:11:00,480
Speaker 1: obviously Portland and Dallas aren't the only cities were sweeps

3066
03:11:00,480 --> 03:11:03,360
Speaker 1: have been ramped up. UM. And of course you also

3067
03:11:03,440 --> 03:11:05,879
Speaker 1: have oh gosh, I I just ran across the article

3068
03:11:05,959 --> 03:11:09,520
Speaker 1: today that like there's discussion in certain cities about like, yes,

3069
03:11:09,600 --> 03:11:12,879
Speaker 1: somewhere in Florida about like putting houseless people in like

3070
03:11:13,000 --> 03:11:17,480
Speaker 1: essentially an island compound and whatnot, like basically like a

3071
03:11:17,520 --> 03:11:22,680
Speaker 1: concentration camp. Right. Yeah, that's been also mentioned by people

3072
03:11:22,680 --> 03:11:26,040
Speaker 1: affiliated with like the Portland City Council in the Mayor's office.

3073
03:11:26,280 --> 03:11:31,800
Speaker 1: It's like essentially getting a concentrated collection of homeless people

3074
03:11:31,800 --> 03:11:35,000
Speaker 1: in one closed off area and you're like, uh, I wonder,

3075
03:11:35,160 --> 03:11:38,640
Speaker 1: I wonder what they mean by that. Yeah, it's it's unsettling.

3076
03:11:38,760 --> 03:11:41,760
Speaker 1: So I'm curious because obviously I think what y'all are

3077
03:11:41,760 --> 03:11:44,240
Speaker 1: doing in Dallas right now is extremely important, and you've

3078
03:11:44,280 --> 03:11:47,360
Speaker 1: been having a lot of success so far. I wanted

3079
03:11:47,400 --> 03:11:50,640
Speaker 1: to talk a little bit about how your organization because

3080
03:11:50,680 --> 03:11:52,840
Speaker 1: we we chatted with the John Brown Gun Club folks

3081
03:11:52,879 --> 03:11:55,080
Speaker 1: a couple of weeks ago about how they started organizing.

3082
03:11:55,360 --> 03:12:00,160
Speaker 1: How did say it with your chest get off the ground? Um,

3083
03:12:00,800 --> 03:12:03,720
Speaker 1: so that was interesting. Stay with your Chest originally started

3084
03:12:04,080 --> 03:12:06,080
Speaker 1: along with a lot of orcs and mutually at works

3085
03:12:06,080 --> 03:12:11,040
Speaker 1: in Dallas. Um after George Floyd was more murdered back

3086
03:12:11,040 --> 03:12:15,000
Speaker 1: in June of like, um, we started. Um. I was

3087
03:12:15,000 --> 03:12:16,560
Speaker 1: in play Now at the time, which is like a

3088
03:12:16,600 --> 03:12:22,520
Speaker 1: suburb Yeah, where I grew up. Oh really Yeah, I

3089
03:12:22,520 --> 03:12:26,120
Speaker 1: wasn't playing at the time, and uh, you know, I,

3090
03:12:28,040 --> 03:12:30,800
Speaker 1: me and my friends were kind of like these suburban

3091
03:12:30,840 --> 03:12:33,000
Speaker 1: people can turn off their TVs and not really have

3092
03:12:33,040 --> 03:12:35,240
Speaker 1: to worry about the protest going on. Downtown and things

3093
03:12:35,280 --> 03:12:37,920
Speaker 1: like that. So we would protest on street corners and

3094
03:12:37,959 --> 03:12:41,000
Speaker 1: just yell at you know, white people in their Mercedes

3095
03:12:41,240 --> 03:12:45,400
Speaker 1: and you know, make them uncomfortable on purpose. Um. Then

3096
03:12:45,440 --> 03:12:48,160
Speaker 1: we started linking up with other mutual aid orcs in Dallas,

3097
03:12:48,240 --> 03:12:50,080
Speaker 1: and you know it was just shaping food, trying to

3098
03:12:50,120 --> 03:12:55,359
Speaker 1: carry that stuff up north. Um. And then uh then

3099
03:12:55,480 --> 03:13:00,600
Speaker 1: we um, well I started going to Camp Ronda UM,

3100
03:13:00,640 --> 03:13:10,000
Speaker 1: which was like a probably the first and like it

3101
03:13:10,080 --> 03:13:14,440
Speaker 1: was a very solid example of a self sustating, houseless

3102
03:13:14,520 --> 03:13:18,279
Speaker 1: encampment where we're just allowed to be and left alone.

3103
03:13:18,320 --> 03:13:20,560
Speaker 1: We're helping people left at them and recovery and things

3104
03:13:20,600 --> 03:13:23,560
Speaker 1: like that, and um, everyone looked out for each other.

3105
03:13:23,600 --> 03:13:26,760
Speaker 1: It was a really great community for that was such

3106
03:13:26,760 --> 03:13:31,440
Speaker 1: a rad project. Um. Not to derail it too much,

3107
03:13:31,480 --> 03:13:34,040
Speaker 1: but I want to tell you guys about Camp Randa. Yeah,

3108
03:13:34,520 --> 03:13:40,039
Speaker 1: like that's tically organized on houses camp. The organizers outside

3109
03:13:40,120 --> 03:13:43,560
Speaker 1: organizers were there everyday helping. The camp itself was organized

3110
03:13:43,600 --> 03:13:47,439
Speaker 1: amongst themselves. They had political theory meetings, they had community

3111
03:13:47,480 --> 03:13:52,640
Speaker 1: meetings to solve issues and resolve inter personal problems. Fucking

3112
03:13:52,720 --> 03:13:57,000
Speaker 1: rad um. And it stayed together for nine months. It

3113
03:13:57,080 --> 03:13:59,400
Speaker 1: was it lasted for a minute. I know it was

3114
03:13:59,800 --> 03:14:03,720
Speaker 1: a proximate. It was over six I believe. But it

3115
03:14:03,840 --> 03:14:08,920
Speaker 1: lasted for a while at one location and then it

3116
03:14:09,080 --> 03:14:12,440
Speaker 1: had to move and then um the next location we

3117
03:14:12,520 --> 03:14:14,720
Speaker 1: ended up moving all the people to. They stayed there

3118
03:14:14,760 --> 03:14:18,120
Speaker 1: first all ten months before um the city sold the

3119
03:14:18,240 --> 03:14:22,120
Speaker 1: land and like some under the table deal and showed

3120
03:14:22,160 --> 03:14:24,720
Speaker 1: up and swept everybody. It reminds me quite a bit

3121
03:14:24,760 --> 03:14:27,840
Speaker 1: of a place I I worked out in Seattle for

3122
03:14:27,879 --> 03:14:30,920
Speaker 1: a while, Nicholsville, which was a plot of land, a

3123
03:14:30,920 --> 03:14:33,800
Speaker 1: couple of acres large where houseless people had set up

3124
03:14:34,160 --> 03:14:37,000
Speaker 1: basically built like a tiny home village for themselves. They

3125
03:14:37,080 --> 03:14:40,959
Speaker 1: provided solar power, um, they had arranged their own like

3126
03:14:41,040 --> 03:14:45,959
Speaker 1: trash pick up. Um. It was safe and uh, very

3127
03:14:46,000 --> 03:14:49,600
Speaker 1: well organized and very comfortable, like an actual fairly high

3128
03:14:49,680 --> 03:14:53,600
Speaker 1: standard of living UM good level like good good wastewater

3129
03:14:53,680 --> 03:14:56,960
Speaker 1: treatment and all that kind of stuff. Um, which existed

3130
03:14:56,959 --> 03:14:59,000
Speaker 1: for a couple of years before the city came in

3131
03:14:59,040 --> 03:15:01,800
Speaker 1: and swept it and destroyed everybody's houses and force them,

3132
03:15:01,840 --> 03:15:07,760
Speaker 1: you know into again kind of a series of camping situations. UM. Yeah,

3133
03:15:07,840 --> 03:15:10,640
Speaker 1: which is you know, you get these It's it's very

3134
03:15:10,640 --> 03:15:13,160
Speaker 1: frustrating because there's this understanding that like, well, we want

3135
03:15:13,200 --> 03:15:16,039
Speaker 1: them in And part of the understanding you get from

3136
03:15:16,080 --> 03:15:18,000
Speaker 1: a number of cities is like, well, we do want

3137
03:15:18,040 --> 03:15:21,240
Speaker 1: them in one place, and we want them in something

3138
03:15:21,280 --> 03:15:24,560
Speaker 1: that's more permanent than you know, a bunch of tents.

3139
03:15:24,600 --> 03:15:26,680
Speaker 1: But if they set that up on their own and

3140
03:15:26,920 --> 03:15:30,160
Speaker 1: have autonomy and have the ability to like exist with

3141
03:15:30,200 --> 03:15:33,200
Speaker 1: any kind of personal freedom, then we don't want that,

3142
03:15:33,280 --> 03:15:37,840
Speaker 1: and we will send armed men and to break it up. Yeah,

3143
03:15:37,879 --> 03:15:41,039
Speaker 1: Like the city is like, oh yeah, well I don't

3144
03:15:41,680 --> 03:15:44,520
Speaker 1: I genuinely do not think that you Dallas wants to

3145
03:15:44,600 --> 03:15:48,720
Speaker 1: house people. Um. Otherwise the Office of Homo Solutions simply

3146
03:15:48,760 --> 03:15:52,959
Speaker 1: would not exist and they wouldn't have a way to

3147
03:15:53,080 --> 03:15:57,720
Speaker 1: just have money sitting around um, and all those people

3148
03:15:57,760 --> 03:16:00,040
Speaker 1: would lose their jobs, you know, because it's not not

3149
03:16:00,920 --> 03:16:03,360
Speaker 1: housing people. You know, people are like, how do you

3150
03:16:03,400 --> 03:16:07,199
Speaker 1: do that? It's not hard, it's not difficult. The city

3151
03:16:07,280 --> 03:16:11,240
Speaker 1: is spending what two billion dollars. I'm innovating the convention

3152
03:16:11,240 --> 03:16:14,920
Speaker 1: center that could house every house this person in Dallas

3153
03:16:15,000 --> 03:16:18,560
Speaker 1: for years, you know. But but then we wouldn't be

3154
03:16:18,600 --> 03:16:21,480
Speaker 1: able to have all of the wonderful things. Someone who

3155
03:16:21,480 --> 03:16:24,720
Speaker 1: lived in Dallas fifteen years I can remember one, maybe

3156
03:16:24,760 --> 03:16:27,000
Speaker 1: even two times when I went to the convention center.

3157
03:16:27,040 --> 03:16:34,080
Speaker 1: What would we do? I think maybe one time? What's

3158
03:16:34,080 --> 03:16:37,880
Speaker 1: along with it to where we had like it's Dallas

3159
03:16:38,240 --> 03:16:43,440
Speaker 1: prioritizes developers over anything else, and that is more than

3160
03:16:44,680 --> 03:16:49,360
Speaker 1: a parent in how they treat the house's population. Um,

3161
03:16:49,400 --> 03:16:55,000
Speaker 1: they're definitely because it's like my my problem, right, Okay,

3162
03:16:55,000 --> 03:16:56,959
Speaker 1: if the city, the city is gonna do sweeps, that's

3163
03:16:57,000 --> 03:17:00,240
Speaker 1: something that I can't really necessarily stop them from doing

3164
03:17:00,240 --> 03:17:03,440
Speaker 1: on my own, but we can and alleviate some of

3165
03:17:03,440 --> 03:17:07,760
Speaker 1: the effects of you know, Um, but when this is

3166
03:17:07,760 --> 03:17:11,840
Speaker 1: sweeping people in the heat like that, we're in the cold, elderly,

3167
03:17:11,959 --> 03:17:16,240
Speaker 1: just a people, It's like, y'all really are just telling

3168
03:17:16,280 --> 03:17:20,600
Speaker 1: them to die in the least you could do. And

3169
03:17:20,640 --> 03:17:26,920
Speaker 1: I've emailed Marcy Jackson, who's the community outreach chair for OHS,

3170
03:17:28,040 --> 03:17:32,240
Speaker 1: you know, She's been like, well, they can go to

3171
03:17:32,320 --> 03:17:36,040
Speaker 1: the shelter. It's it's about it's within three miles, And

3172
03:17:36,080 --> 03:17:39,280
Speaker 1: I'm like, you you're gonna walk three You're telling somebody

3173
03:17:39,320 --> 03:17:42,440
Speaker 1: who's older than this able to walk three miles in

3174
03:17:42,480 --> 03:17:45,440
Speaker 1: a hundred and seven degree heat to get to a

3175
03:17:45,480 --> 03:17:51,080
Speaker 1: cooling station. That is only open to like five. Well, uh,

3176
03:17:51,200 --> 03:17:53,920
Speaker 1: there's a lot of cognitive dissonance in the city. Just

3177
03:17:54,000 --> 03:17:55,840
Speaker 1: for a little bit of reference too, because like we

3178
03:17:55,920 --> 03:17:58,800
Speaker 1: have cooling stations and stuff up in Portland and you

3179
03:17:58,840 --> 03:18:02,040
Speaker 1: have similar problems. One thing that is a benefit to

3180
03:18:02,120 --> 03:18:05,480
Speaker 1: folks in a place like ore Agon is that after

3181
03:18:05,680 --> 03:18:08,800
Speaker 1: five six pm, when like this cooling stations start to

3182
03:18:08,800 --> 03:18:11,320
Speaker 1: call down, it actually does cool down here, Like it

3183
03:18:11,400 --> 03:18:13,760
Speaker 1: gets cool at night even when it's a hundred outside.

3184
03:18:13,959 --> 03:18:18,279
Speaker 1: That doesn't happen in Dallas during this Yeah, I've literally

3185
03:18:18,320 --> 03:18:21,720
Speaker 1: had it be triple digits at midnight in fu Dallas, Texas,

3186
03:18:21,800 --> 03:18:26,680
Speaker 1: Like that's the place it is. No, so you're still

3187
03:18:26,720 --> 03:18:28,640
Speaker 1: it's it's still a threat to life and limb even

3188
03:18:28,640 --> 03:18:31,880
Speaker 1: when the sun's not beating down on you. Yeah, sometimes

3189
03:18:31,879 --> 03:18:34,480
Speaker 1: it was cooling shelters, I know. Certainly, like here, we

3190
03:18:34,520 --> 03:18:36,800
Speaker 1: have a bunch of issues with shelters and calling shelters

3191
03:18:36,800 --> 03:18:39,560
Speaker 1: and stuff, like you don't have privacy, you can't bring

3192
03:18:39,600 --> 03:18:42,320
Speaker 1: your pets. They want you to look all your possessions

3193
03:18:42,360 --> 03:18:45,720
Speaker 1: up somewhere else. There are like a number of other

3194
03:18:45,800 --> 03:18:48,520
Speaker 1: things that really limit people's ability to feel safe accessing.

3195
03:18:48,520 --> 03:18:50,160
Speaker 1: I don't know if it's the same there, but like

3196
03:18:50,600 --> 03:18:52,800
Speaker 1: it's not that there's necessarily a place where someone would

3197
03:18:52,800 --> 03:18:54,400
Speaker 1: feel safe and I'm not going there. It's when I

3198
03:18:54,480 --> 03:18:57,240
Speaker 1: made that clear. Pets are a big issue, and this

3199
03:18:57,280 --> 03:18:59,480
Speaker 1: is something that again when I was at Nicholsville, people

3200
03:18:59,520 --> 03:19:02,600
Speaker 1: would point out that, like folks would accuse them of

3201
03:19:02,640 --> 03:19:05,320
Speaker 1: being like abusive because they had a cat or a dog,

3202
03:19:05,520 --> 03:19:07,800
Speaker 1: you know, that was living with them in the encampment.

3203
03:19:07,800 --> 03:19:11,160
Speaker 1: And they'd be like, well, number one, like it's okay

3204
03:19:11,160 --> 03:19:12,760
Speaker 1: for me to live this way, but it's not okay

3205
03:19:12,840 --> 03:19:16,280
Speaker 1: for like a cat or a dog. And also just

3206
03:19:16,320 --> 03:19:19,480
Speaker 1: like do I not deserve companionship and love in my life?

3207
03:19:19,480 --> 03:19:21,200
Speaker 1: Like this is what this animal is one of the

3208
03:19:21,600 --> 03:19:23,640
Speaker 1: is one of the things that helps keep me. And

3209
03:19:23,680 --> 03:19:25,240
Speaker 1: I talked to a number of folks who got back

3210
03:19:25,240 --> 03:19:27,200
Speaker 1: into housing who were like, if we had not had

3211
03:19:27,200 --> 03:19:29,560
Speaker 1: our cat with us, like, I don't know that we

3212
03:19:29,560 --> 03:19:32,200
Speaker 1: would have made it, because just having that animal with

3213
03:19:32,320 --> 03:19:34,840
Speaker 1: us like helped. Like it's it's for the same reason

3214
03:19:34,840 --> 03:19:39,360
Speaker 1: everybody has animals, right, Like every single house, this person

3215
03:19:39,440 --> 03:19:43,480
Speaker 1: that has a pet has a service animal has as

3216
03:19:43,520 --> 03:19:46,400
Speaker 1: a service animals far as I'm concerned, would you separate

3217
03:19:46,480 --> 03:19:50,320
Speaker 1: somebody who is disabled from their wheelchair. Would you separate

3218
03:19:50,440 --> 03:19:54,840
Speaker 1: somebody from there, like their service animal, their dog that

3219
03:19:54,959 --> 03:19:59,120
Speaker 1: they eat, you know, And it's like when you're out there, UM,

3220
03:19:59,160 --> 03:20:00,720
Speaker 1: I know that a lot of people will have dogs

3221
03:20:00,720 --> 03:20:04,200
Speaker 1: for comfort, but also dogs are protection, they are security

3222
03:20:04,400 --> 03:20:09,160
Speaker 1: in such a dangerous environment UM, where people are always

3223
03:20:09,240 --> 03:20:15,280
Speaker 1: you know, like it's just it's just it is unfathomable

3224
03:20:15,360 --> 03:20:20,760
Speaker 1: how much trauma UM goes into being houseless, especially in Dallas,

3225
03:20:20,840 --> 03:20:25,760
Speaker 1: in places like Dalla. UM. So I'd like to ask

3226
03:20:25,800 --> 03:20:28,600
Speaker 1: you a little bit, so you have been Is this

3227
03:20:28,680 --> 03:20:31,320
Speaker 1: kind of the first collaboration this last week or so,

3228
03:20:31,840 --> 03:20:33,879
Speaker 1: let's say it with your chest has had with the

3229
03:20:33,879 --> 03:20:35,840
Speaker 1: the Elm Fork John Brown Gun Club. Have you guys

3230
03:20:35,920 --> 03:20:39,520
Speaker 1: been working together prior to this? Uh? Yeah, yeah, like

3231
03:20:39,720 --> 03:20:42,680
Speaker 1: we UM I originally met members of Elm Fork when

3232
03:20:43,000 --> 03:20:49,280
Speaker 1: UM Camp Ronda first started, uh back in UM and

3233
03:20:49,320 --> 03:20:52,840
Speaker 1: we were collaborating on like getting people's supplies, UM tents

3234
03:20:52,879 --> 03:20:56,840
Speaker 1: and things like that. I would run laundry UM with

3235
03:20:56,879 --> 03:21:02,800
Speaker 1: my org uh and yeah, we were we just you know,

3236
03:21:03,320 --> 03:21:05,920
Speaker 1: always collaborated to make sure like the people could get

3237
03:21:05,959 --> 03:21:08,240
Speaker 1: what they need. If somebody had supplied, someone was able

3238
03:21:08,280 --> 03:21:11,320
Speaker 1: to show up and we couldn't you know, UM just

3239
03:21:11,360 --> 03:21:16,360
Speaker 1: working together again And I'm curious, UM, could you kind

3240
03:21:16,360 --> 03:21:19,680
Speaker 1: of walk us through sort of how what you see

3241
03:21:19,720 --> 03:21:23,000
Speaker 1: is the benefit of having folks who are visibly armed

3242
03:21:23,240 --> 03:21:26,040
Speaker 1: UM for this kind of for these kind of actions,

3243
03:21:26,080 --> 03:21:28,600
Speaker 1: Like how did how did number one sweep defense tend

3244
03:21:28,640 --> 03:21:31,160
Speaker 1: to work before y'all were doing that, and how has

3245
03:21:31,240 --> 03:21:34,640
Speaker 1: that altered kind of the way in which you're seeing

3246
03:21:36,040 --> 03:21:43,119
Speaker 1: this activism like take effect. UM. As far as I know,

3247
03:21:43,560 --> 03:21:47,120
Speaker 1: people from members of ELM four because I have always

3248
03:21:47,120 --> 03:21:51,360
Speaker 1: shown up with UM firearms in some capacity, whether it's

3249
03:21:51,440 --> 03:21:56,440
Speaker 1: concealed or open. But UM, there was a noticeable difference

3250
03:21:56,480 --> 03:21:59,560
Speaker 1: with the open carry UM. I know that back in

3251
03:21:59,760 --> 03:22:02,000
Speaker 1: Chad you worry when one of our other camps was

3252
03:22:02,040 --> 03:22:06,360
Speaker 1: getting swept UM and they showed up Like afterwards, we

3253
03:22:06,400 --> 03:22:09,480
Speaker 1: had a meeting with the director of UM Home Solutions,

3254
03:22:09,560 --> 03:22:17,520
Speaker 1: Christine Crosley. She sucks UM and uh. She was like,

3255
03:22:18,480 --> 03:22:21,200
Speaker 1: people were like, we were hearing reports of people that

3256
03:22:21,280 --> 03:22:24,760
Speaker 1: were openly armed, and we want to we really care

3257
03:22:24,760 --> 03:22:27,480
Speaker 1: about the safety of like the unhoused residents out there,

3258
03:22:27,520 --> 03:22:30,200
Speaker 1: And I was like they were more afraid of the

3259
03:22:30,280 --> 03:22:35,439
Speaker 1: cops than of the five people out here with with rifles,

3260
03:22:35,480 --> 03:22:38,400
Speaker 1: and that's that's something It's like, if you're gonna show

3261
03:22:38,520 --> 03:22:44,680
Speaker 1: up with twelve dudes with guns, what's the problem with

3262
03:22:45,000 --> 03:22:48,160
Speaker 1: some of us showing up with like a little something

3263
03:22:48,240 --> 03:22:50,840
Speaker 1: just in case? You know, the state should not be

3264
03:22:50,920 --> 03:22:56,280
Speaker 1: the only one to have access to firearms that very dangerous. UM.

3265
03:22:56,320 --> 03:23:00,640
Speaker 1: But also I don't mean that in a to a

3266
03:23:00,840 --> 03:23:04,280
Speaker 1: kind of way if that makes sensitive. Yeah, that does

3267
03:23:04,320 --> 03:23:06,680
Speaker 1: kind of bring up an interesting point, which is if

3268
03:23:06,720 --> 03:23:08,760
Speaker 1: you're showing as you're showing up kind of in this

3269
03:23:08,879 --> 03:23:11,920
Speaker 1: capacity with both activists to kind of help folks with

3270
03:23:11,959 --> 03:23:14,280
Speaker 1: their stuff, with with laundry and other needs, but also

3271
03:23:14,360 --> 03:23:17,680
Speaker 1: people who are are carrying are fifteens and wearing plate carriers.

3272
03:23:18,000 --> 03:23:20,520
Speaker 1: I imagine there's like a degree to which you are

3273
03:23:20,520 --> 03:23:22,959
Speaker 1: trying to give people a heads up before just so

3274
03:23:23,000 --> 03:23:25,360
Speaker 1: they don't be like, oh, suddenly there's folks with guns.

3275
03:23:25,360 --> 03:23:27,600
Speaker 1: What's going on? Right? Can you kind of walk us

3276
03:23:27,640 --> 03:23:31,440
Speaker 1: through the community outreach explaining sort of like how you

3277
03:23:31,760 --> 03:23:34,280
Speaker 1: how you actually go about letting people know what's going

3278
03:23:34,320 --> 03:23:36,400
Speaker 1: to be happening and stuff and and what the folks

3279
03:23:36,400 --> 03:23:42,640
Speaker 1: showing up are doing well when it comes to sweeps

3280
03:23:43,160 --> 03:23:48,080
Speaker 1: UM and normally I focus a lot on just making

3281
03:23:48,080 --> 03:23:52,760
Speaker 1: sure that people are okay and defending them. Um. When

3282
03:23:53,000 --> 03:23:58,640
Speaker 1: I I do not necessarily like ask for work to

3283
03:23:58,760 --> 03:24:01,440
Speaker 1: show up with guns. I'm more like I assume if

3284
03:24:01,520 --> 03:24:03,200
Speaker 1: y'all are going to be there, they are going to

3285
03:24:03,280 --> 03:24:10,720
Speaker 1: be um, you know. And sometimes there was Usually the

3286
03:24:10,760 --> 03:24:13,920
Speaker 1: residents are like the residents have some of the residents

3287
03:24:13,920 --> 03:24:19,440
Speaker 1: have firearms themselves, you know, so they're like, well aware. Um,

3288
03:24:19,480 --> 03:24:21,720
Speaker 1: there are some cases where like people will get a

3289
03:24:21,720 --> 03:24:24,039
Speaker 1: little bit anxious about it, and you know, we kind

3290
03:24:24,040 --> 03:24:27,360
Speaker 1: of have to be like, if you really don't want

3291
03:24:27,360 --> 03:24:30,160
Speaker 1: the guns here, then that's fine, we can move them.

3292
03:24:30,200 --> 03:24:33,440
Speaker 1: But in the past, with this track record, like usually

3293
03:24:33,520 --> 03:24:35,160
Speaker 1: the city kind of backs off a little bit when

3294
03:24:35,200 --> 03:24:40,599
Speaker 1: they know that y'all are actolutely protected, you know, because um,

3295
03:24:40,720 --> 03:24:43,360
Speaker 1: the city is the city is a bully. They really

3296
03:24:43,360 --> 03:24:47,119
Speaker 1: do like picking on people who the most vulnerable of us,

3297
03:24:47,680 --> 03:24:52,680
Speaker 1: you know. Um, And so lately the guns have been

3298
03:24:52,720 --> 03:24:57,879
Speaker 1: seeming to have them back off a little bit. I

3299
03:24:57,920 --> 03:25:00,440
Speaker 1: know when they pulled up, Like when ELM we're pulled

3300
03:25:00,520 --> 03:25:03,640
Speaker 1: up and hopped out the car with the rifles, all

3301
03:25:03,680 --> 03:25:05,760
Speaker 1: of the cops are at we squatted up into like

3302
03:25:05,800 --> 03:25:08,920
Speaker 1: a little a little I don't know, pick circle and

3303
03:25:08,959 --> 03:25:13,039
Speaker 1: they started talking, uh, and they were genuinely like what

3304
03:25:13,080 --> 03:25:18,240
Speaker 1: do we do? Hold on? You know? Yeah, And it's

3305
03:25:18,360 --> 03:25:20,160
Speaker 1: I mean that's kind of the that's kind of the

3306
03:25:20,200 --> 03:25:22,680
Speaker 1: story as we're coming into it right now, which is

3307
03:25:22,720 --> 03:25:24,840
Speaker 1: there were supposed to be a sweep. What is it

3308
03:25:24,879 --> 03:25:29,400
Speaker 1: five days ago now, Friday? Yeah, almost a week and

3309
03:25:29,440 --> 03:25:31,440
Speaker 1: you all have been showing up a couple of times

3310
03:25:31,440 --> 03:25:33,680
Speaker 1: in that period to help people get there, get things

3311
03:25:33,720 --> 03:25:36,680
Speaker 1: together and whatnot and get get which is an important

3312
03:25:36,720 --> 03:25:39,720
Speaker 1: The fact that you're helping them kind of move and

3313
03:25:39,720 --> 03:25:42,120
Speaker 1: and doing it more in kind of their own time

3314
03:25:42,120 --> 03:25:44,320
Speaker 1: frame as opposed to the city shows up and you've

3315
03:25:44,360 --> 03:25:47,680
Speaker 1: got to like grab what you can or lose everything, um,

3316
03:25:47,840 --> 03:25:50,600
Speaker 1: is important because you're also you're not just showing up

3317
03:25:50,600 --> 03:25:54,320
Speaker 1: with activists with guns and saying like the city we're

3318
03:25:54,360 --> 03:25:57,280
Speaker 1: not going to let any like no one's going to move,

3319
03:25:57,320 --> 03:25:59,760
Speaker 1: and we're like we're we're drawing a line in the sand,

3320
03:25:59,800 --> 03:26:02,680
Speaker 1: which is not would not be a particularly safe call.

3321
03:26:02,760 --> 03:26:08,120
Speaker 1: I wouldn't think my my main priority out there, because

3322
03:26:08,160 --> 03:26:11,600
Speaker 1: there's a lot of black and brown bodies out there

3323
03:26:11,600 --> 03:26:17,880
Speaker 1: people is making sure we are safe and um, even

3324
03:26:17,920 --> 03:26:20,680
Speaker 1: before this last one, Like a lot of us were

3325
03:26:20,760 --> 03:26:24,039
Speaker 1: concerned about the guns because like we didn't want things

3326
03:26:24,080 --> 03:26:27,760
Speaker 1: to escalate, and we never know with police, sometimes they

3327
03:26:27,800 --> 03:26:32,520
Speaker 1: get really excited and then sometimes they back off. It's really, uh,

3328
03:26:33,400 --> 03:26:36,920
Speaker 1: we really don't know. Um, So we were also taking

3329
03:26:36,959 --> 03:26:40,360
Speaker 1: that into consideration. UM. And I was kind of like

3330
03:26:40,680 --> 03:26:43,680
Speaker 1: the unfork No, like, listen, there's a lot of black

3331
03:26:43,680 --> 03:26:46,080
Speaker 1: and brown people out here, and we don't want to

3332
03:26:47,040 --> 03:26:53,200
Speaker 1: escalate anything and you know, put people in danger. Um.

3333
03:26:53,280 --> 03:26:55,720
Speaker 1: And it seems like this time, the city I didn't

3334
03:26:55,760 --> 03:26:59,120
Speaker 1: really want to mess with that. So that's good, but

3335
03:27:00,360 --> 03:27:02,400
Speaker 1: it's always important to keep that in mind any time

3336
03:27:02,440 --> 03:27:09,040
Speaker 1: you have firearms. Oh yes, population And I'm curious, um, bubble,

3337
03:27:09,160 --> 03:27:12,560
Speaker 1: can you talk a little bit about the how this

3338
03:27:12,680 --> 03:27:15,280
Speaker 1: kind of organizing is sort of different than the stuff

3339
03:27:15,280 --> 03:27:17,840
Speaker 1: you've been doing at at counterprotesting events. Like what are

3340
03:27:17,920 --> 03:27:20,600
Speaker 1: kind of the different things that y'all are keeping in

3341
03:27:20,680 --> 03:27:23,240
Speaker 1: mind as you as you make action plans for days

3342
03:27:23,280 --> 03:27:25,400
Speaker 1: like this compared to when you know you're showing up

3343
03:27:25,440 --> 03:27:27,640
Speaker 1: to at a at a protest to kind of counter

3344
03:27:28,200 --> 03:27:33,640
Speaker 1: groups of Proud Boys or whatever. Yeah, it's pretty different, um,

3345
03:27:33,720 --> 03:27:39,520
Speaker 1: in that when we're doing security for marches, or um,

3346
03:27:39,560 --> 03:27:44,080
Speaker 1: you know, protecting pride events. Uh, it's not like a

3347
03:27:44,120 --> 03:27:50,120
Speaker 1: direct confrontation with so it's it's a bit it's a

3348
03:27:50,120 --> 03:27:53,160
Speaker 1: bit different. It's a little bit more high stakes. Um.

3349
03:27:53,200 --> 03:27:55,840
Speaker 1: When we do stop the sweep things, you know, we

3350
03:27:55,879 --> 03:27:58,280
Speaker 1: want to we want to push back, but at the

3351
03:27:58,320 --> 03:28:01,720
Speaker 1: same um, you know, not be the first to cross

3352
03:28:01,760 --> 03:28:06,440
Speaker 1: any lines. Um. So it is, you know, it is.

3353
03:28:06,520 --> 03:28:10,240
Speaker 1: It is a more sensitive situation. I think it requires

3354
03:28:10,720 --> 03:28:13,680
Speaker 1: different kind of planning. Um. And of course there's there's

3355
03:28:13,720 --> 03:28:16,240
Speaker 1: all these bystanders, there's all of the residents there who

3356
03:28:16,240 --> 03:28:19,040
Speaker 1: were there the help that we don't want to endanger

3357
03:28:19,040 --> 03:28:21,800
Speaker 1: in any way. Um. Like Danny was saying. I actually

3358
03:28:21,840 --> 03:28:26,119
Speaker 1: had um what ended up being a pretty cool conversation

3359
03:28:26,360 --> 03:28:29,680
Speaker 1: with a resident afterward. But he was kind of an

3360
03:28:29,760 --> 03:28:32,480
Speaker 1: organizer in the camp and he was talking to me

3361
03:28:32,520 --> 03:28:35,360
Speaker 1: and he said, you know, I don't think we want

3362
03:28:35,400 --> 03:28:38,640
Speaker 1: the guns, like, we don't want any trouble. And I

3363
03:28:38,720 --> 03:28:42,280
Speaker 1: leaned over to him and I whispered to him, Look,

3364
03:28:42,360 --> 03:28:45,160
Speaker 1: we're just here with guns to try to get the

3365
03:28:45,200 --> 03:28:49,199
Speaker 1: cops to back off. Um. I think they're actually backing

3366
03:28:49,200 --> 03:28:51,280
Speaker 1: off now because we had actually just heard the cops

3367
03:28:51,280 --> 03:28:53,320
Speaker 1: that we're going to leave. I said, I think they're

3368
03:28:53,320 --> 03:28:56,480
Speaker 1: backing off. We're gone, don't worry about it. And he said,

3369
03:28:56,520 --> 03:29:02,480
Speaker 1: wait wait, you know, don't leave yet, wait till they leave. Um.

3370
03:29:02,520 --> 03:29:05,760
Speaker 1: And now that that's uh, I am interested like as

3371
03:29:05,800 --> 03:29:09,640
Speaker 1: the uh the actual folks showing up armed bubble. Do

3372
03:29:09,720 --> 03:29:12,959
Speaker 1: you guys have kind of a like standard set of

3373
03:29:13,000 --> 03:29:15,200
Speaker 1: responses and stuff that you work through ahead of time

3374
03:29:15,200 --> 03:29:17,119
Speaker 1: to kind of explain things to people and make sure

3375
03:29:17,120 --> 03:29:19,080
Speaker 1: everyone's on the same page in terms of how they're

3376
03:29:19,080 --> 03:29:23,840
Speaker 1: doing it. Um. Yeah, we have some of that worked out.

3377
03:29:23,920 --> 03:29:27,200
Speaker 1: That's an evolving thing where we're trying to standardize. Yeah.

3378
03:29:27,360 --> 03:29:30,240
Speaker 1: Worked a long time with a core group of people

3379
03:29:30,280 --> 03:29:34,080
Speaker 1: that knows each other really well. Um. So we have

3380
03:29:34,360 --> 03:29:37,320
Speaker 1: like seen each other at you know, dozens of these

3381
03:29:37,360 --> 03:29:42,200
Speaker 1: things and we know how each other operate. With some

3382
03:29:42,320 --> 03:29:45,040
Speaker 1: newer people coming in, you know, we are working now

3383
03:29:45,200 --> 03:29:49,360
Speaker 1: on kind of standardizing those responses and uh, you know,

3384
03:29:49,480 --> 03:29:54,680
Speaker 1: sharing our past experiences and are thinking and all that. Um. Now,

3385
03:29:54,800 --> 03:29:58,720
Speaker 1: question for for both Slash either of you, as you've

3386
03:29:58,879 --> 03:30:01,880
Speaker 1: gotten more into do sweep defenses, what have been some

3387
03:30:01,920 --> 03:30:05,080
Speaker 1: of kind of the lessons learned things that have been like, Okay,

3388
03:30:05,240 --> 03:30:07,200
Speaker 1: we went into it thinking like this was a good

3389
03:30:07,240 --> 03:30:09,320
Speaker 1: idea and it turned out that like that doesn't work

3390
03:30:09,400 --> 03:30:10,840
Speaker 1: very well. So we've had to do this like just

3391
03:30:10,920 --> 03:30:14,520
Speaker 1: things that have kind of um best practices that have

3392
03:30:14,600 --> 03:30:23,080
Speaker 1: kind of evolved over time doing this UM. Honestly a

3393
03:30:23,120 --> 03:30:25,680
Speaker 1: lot of it a lot when when tensions are really

3394
03:30:25,760 --> 03:30:29,840
Speaker 1: high like that, UM, because you come to sweeps like

3395
03:30:29,920 --> 03:30:36,080
Speaker 1: I'm the one kind of like dealing with UM a

3396
03:30:36,120 --> 03:30:39,520
Speaker 1: lot of like overseeing and stuff like that, and when

3397
03:30:39,520 --> 03:30:42,840
Speaker 1: tensions are really high like that. Honestly, the thing is

3398
03:30:42,879 --> 03:30:47,039
Speaker 1: harm reduction. Harm Reduction is at the pinnacle of it's

3399
03:30:47,080 --> 03:30:51,280
Speaker 1: at the core of like whatever we do, and part

3400
03:30:51,280 --> 03:30:54,240
Speaker 1: of that is meeting people where they're at UM and

3401
03:30:54,280 --> 03:30:59,920
Speaker 1: making sure that we UM help the people I show up,

3402
03:31:00,680 --> 03:31:02,720
Speaker 1: I shoot you not. One of the best things that

3403
03:31:02,800 --> 03:31:05,120
Speaker 1: we started doing is showing up with packs of Newports

3404
03:31:06,240 --> 03:31:09,959
Speaker 1: on God. It makes it a lot UM. You know,

3405
03:31:10,000 --> 03:31:13,240
Speaker 1: when you're going through trauma like that, UM and someone

3406
03:31:13,280 --> 03:31:17,760
Speaker 1: hands you a cigarette, that's something that not only helps

3407
03:31:17,879 --> 03:31:21,520
Speaker 1: you kind of regulate yourself when you're experiencing this high

3408
03:31:21,520 --> 03:31:24,200
Speaker 1: stress situation where you're being evicted from your home and

3409
03:31:24,440 --> 03:31:26,280
Speaker 1: you're gonna lose your stuff and you're afraid people are

3410
03:31:26,280 --> 03:31:29,840
Speaker 1: gonna steal things, and it's a whole lot that helps

3411
03:31:30,240 --> 03:31:33,800
Speaker 1: bring people back and it makes it a lot easier

3412
03:31:33,920 --> 03:31:39,120
Speaker 1: for us to UM work with people and UM still

3413
03:31:39,200 --> 03:31:43,080
Speaker 1: maintain the bonds that we've created and maintain the levels

3414
03:31:43,120 --> 03:31:46,640
Speaker 1: of trust that we have with the community. UM literally

3415
03:31:47,080 --> 03:31:51,400
Speaker 1: some simple things like handing out cigarettes, UM during because

3416
03:31:51,440 --> 03:31:53,240
Speaker 1: that's a way that we're like, hey, we're here for you,

3417
03:31:53,600 --> 03:31:56,560
Speaker 1: we know what you need, yeah, and we're not We're

3418
03:31:56,600 --> 03:32:00,199
Speaker 1: also we're not here to like judge what's best for you,

3419
03:32:00,200 --> 03:32:02,320
Speaker 1: you know, and do some like nanny state ship, like

3420
03:32:02,480 --> 03:32:04,959
Speaker 1: you need a cigarette right now, right like it's stressful,

3421
03:32:05,360 --> 03:32:08,000
Speaker 1: not really like hell, I would need a cigarette to

3422
03:32:08,240 --> 03:32:13,000
Speaker 1: you know. At that point, UM, there was somebody who

3423
03:32:13,080 --> 03:32:15,240
Speaker 1: was like, you're asking people for newports. You need to

3424
03:32:15,280 --> 03:32:17,879
Speaker 1: stop doing that, Like that's really unhealthy. And I thought

3425
03:32:17,920 --> 03:32:19,720
Speaker 1: you were trying to say these people and it's like,

3426
03:32:19,800 --> 03:32:24,959
Speaker 1: I'm not trying to say for starters. M. We're not

3427
03:32:25,080 --> 03:32:29,840
Speaker 1: Captain America. We're not no avengers. Okay, we are regular

3428
03:32:29,959 --> 03:32:33,720
Speaker 1: people fulfilling a responsibility, and that responsibility is to be

3429
03:32:33,840 --> 03:32:38,640
Speaker 1: there for our neighbors. That's how movements happen, That's how

3430
03:32:38,680 --> 03:32:42,560
Speaker 1: anything happens, and all of that is rooted in you know,

3431
03:32:42,800 --> 03:32:47,400
Speaker 1: indigenous UM communalism and theory and stuff like that that

3432
03:32:47,480 --> 03:32:51,240
Speaker 1: I think is really important. It's just fulfilling that responsibility

3433
03:32:51,240 --> 03:32:54,560
Speaker 1: and being there for people and when it comes to

3434
03:32:54,720 --> 03:32:58,000
Speaker 1: because you know, we always try to provide folks listening

3435
03:32:58,120 --> 03:33:00,920
Speaker 1: in other towns and stuff who maybe like inspired by this,

3436
03:33:01,000 --> 03:33:03,920
Speaker 1: with options for how they might move forward on trying

3437
03:33:03,959 --> 03:33:06,480
Speaker 1: to replicate some of y'all's successes. If people are looking

3438
03:33:06,480 --> 03:33:09,400
Speaker 1: at okay, I would like to help do sweep defensive

3439
03:33:09,720 --> 03:33:12,920
Speaker 1: I would like to do, you know, work kind of

3440
03:33:12,959 --> 03:33:16,160
Speaker 1: like this in my own community. How do you recommend

3441
03:33:16,200 --> 03:33:19,560
Speaker 1: because obviously there's you know, how how to build organizations

3442
03:33:19,640 --> 03:33:21,800
Speaker 1: is another matter, But like, if you've got a group

3443
03:33:21,840 --> 03:33:24,040
Speaker 1: together to help folks, how do you recommend kind of

3444
03:33:24,360 --> 03:33:27,120
Speaker 1: starting the process of introducing yourself Because you can't just

3445
03:33:27,160 --> 03:33:30,640
Speaker 1: like show up and be like hey, like just be like, hey,

3446
03:33:30,640 --> 03:33:34,440
Speaker 1: we're gonna certainly not with guns, but yeah, and don't

3447
03:33:36,400 --> 03:33:41,280
Speaker 1: um you have to develop a really really strong report

3448
03:33:41,360 --> 03:33:43,840
Speaker 1: with your community first, and you also need to make

3449
03:33:43,840 --> 03:33:52,400
Speaker 1: sure that's your community. Like you know, um, I I've

3450
03:33:52,440 --> 03:33:57,240
Speaker 1: spent a really long time creating relationships with the housed

3451
03:33:57,240 --> 03:34:02,440
Speaker 1: populations of South Dallas, and that took literal years, you know,

3452
03:34:03,120 --> 03:34:05,640
Speaker 1: expecting people to trust you off the bat, and expecting

3453
03:34:05,680 --> 03:34:08,440
Speaker 1: people to just like I feel like, oh, you're one

3454
03:34:08,440 --> 03:34:10,800
Speaker 1: of the good guys. It's not going to happen, especially

3455
03:34:10,800 --> 03:34:13,320
Speaker 1: if you're white. Like, honestly, if we'd be if we're

3456
03:34:13,360 --> 03:34:15,840
Speaker 1: keeping in a book, because like, there's a whole lot

3457
03:34:15,879 --> 03:34:18,680
Speaker 1: of black and brown people out there in these vulnerable communities,

3458
03:34:19,240 --> 03:34:21,800
Speaker 1: and usually the white people that they see are the

3459
03:34:21,800 --> 03:34:23,800
Speaker 1: white people who are talking down to them and not

3460
03:34:23,840 --> 03:34:27,000
Speaker 1: treating them as human beings. The main thing that people,

3461
03:34:27,040 --> 03:34:30,240
Speaker 1: the people out there need most is consistency from you,

3462
03:34:30,360 --> 03:34:32,880
Speaker 1: even if you don't even if one day you don't

3463
03:34:32,920 --> 03:34:34,920
Speaker 1: have anything and you can just hand out water there

3464
03:34:34,959 --> 03:34:39,160
Speaker 1: with them and developing community that way, you know. And

3465
03:34:39,200 --> 03:34:41,119
Speaker 1: one of the things that people tell me a lot

3466
03:34:41,920 --> 03:34:45,039
Speaker 1: is that just it was It's been very shocking to

3467
03:34:45,120 --> 03:34:47,720
Speaker 1: me how much I've heard it is people are like,

3468
03:34:48,000 --> 03:34:50,400
Speaker 1: you don't talk to us like how other people talk

3469
03:34:50,480 --> 03:34:55,360
Speaker 1: to us. You talk to us like people. And the

3470
03:34:55,400 --> 03:34:58,760
Speaker 1: sheer amount of time I was really shocked by how

3471
03:34:58,800 --> 03:35:02,120
Speaker 1: many times about stare that because I'm like, you know,

3472
03:35:02,440 --> 03:35:06,039
Speaker 1: I don't really think I talked much differently from anybody else.

3473
03:35:06,040 --> 03:35:08,240
Speaker 1: But then when I go out there and see other people,

3474
03:35:08,400 --> 03:35:12,520
Speaker 1: just random people handing out macgriddles or whatever, you know,

3475
03:35:13,200 --> 03:35:15,640
Speaker 1: there's definitely a switch. Like if you were talking to

3476
03:35:16,000 --> 03:35:20,240
Speaker 1: a pet or to a child, you know, um, like

3477
03:35:20,320 --> 03:35:25,760
Speaker 1: you pity something, people will not want you around because honestly,

3478
03:35:26,360 --> 03:35:29,080
Speaker 1: they don't want your pity. What they want is bottles

3479
03:35:29,080 --> 03:35:31,720
Speaker 1: of water. You know. If you're just only showing up

3480
03:35:31,760 --> 03:35:35,520
Speaker 1: when ships going down, um, you don't actually have the

3481
03:35:35,560 --> 03:35:40,480
Speaker 1: people's trust. And I think, if anything, that that hurts

3482
03:35:40,520 --> 03:35:43,600
Speaker 1: it a little bit because it's like, oh, I am

3483
03:35:43,680 --> 03:35:46,840
Speaker 1: only here to make you feel good about yourself. You

3484
03:35:46,879 --> 03:35:50,320
Speaker 1: want to be the one saving everybody. It's like you've

3485
03:35:50,320 --> 03:35:54,880
Speaker 1: got to dismantle your savior complex first before you do anything.

3486
03:35:55,680 --> 03:35:59,400
Speaker 1: And I think it's good to talk about, um kind

3487
03:35:59,440 --> 03:36:02,160
Speaker 1: of how this actually how these actions actually look on

3488
03:36:02,200 --> 03:36:04,600
Speaker 1: the ground, because again, the thing that sort of has

3489
03:36:04,640 --> 03:36:07,160
Speaker 1: gone semiviral on Twitter has been the fact that like,

3490
03:36:07,760 --> 03:36:10,039
Speaker 1: you know, people with guns stood off the cops. But

3491
03:36:10,080 --> 03:36:12,720
Speaker 1: if you're imagining some sort of like big armed standoff,

3492
03:36:12,800 --> 03:36:14,480
Speaker 1: like that's not how this has looked. Which is the

3493
03:36:14,480 --> 03:36:17,520
Speaker 1: thing I liked about the Dallas Morning News article, Um,

3494
03:36:17,600 --> 03:36:19,760
Speaker 1: which we will do you mean the article or the

3495
03:36:19,840 --> 03:36:28,720
Speaker 1: opinion piece. Sorry, yes, um, I am pulling it up

3496
03:36:28,800 --> 03:36:34,040
Speaker 1: right now, just to have that we have an opinion already. Oh,

3497
03:36:34,080 --> 03:36:36,720
Speaker 1: any time on howse people pop up in the discourse,

3498
03:36:36,760 --> 03:36:39,039
Speaker 1: someone is ready to write and I again, Yeah, it's

3499
03:36:39,080 --> 03:36:43,600
Speaker 1: the the article, the article armed activists block Dallas workers

3500
03:36:43,640 --> 03:36:48,520
Speaker 1: from cleaning a homeless camp. That's an acceptable opinion. That's

3501
03:36:49,000 --> 03:36:50,960
Speaker 1: That's not the one I was talking about. The one

3502
03:36:50,959 --> 03:36:53,320
Speaker 1: I'm talking about is titled and it is a news

3503
03:36:53,400 --> 03:36:56,840
Speaker 1: article Dallas delays moving homeless camp after activists show up,

3504
03:36:57,320 --> 03:36:59,199
Speaker 1: which did a good job of not kind of over

3505
03:36:59,240 --> 03:37:02,840
Speaker 1: emphasizing the armed part and talking about the actual work

3506
03:37:02,920 --> 03:37:05,120
Speaker 1: y'all we're doing in the community. I was kind of

3507
03:37:05,160 --> 03:37:08,080
Speaker 1: impressed with it, especially given the Dallas Morning News is

3508
03:37:08,160 --> 03:37:13,840
Speaker 1: most recent like general trends, shall we say, and considering

3509
03:37:13,840 --> 03:37:16,879
Speaker 1: their opinion piece they published yesterday. Yeah, I hadn't seen

3510
03:37:16,959 --> 03:37:19,320
Speaker 1: that one. Could you talk a little bit about how

3511
03:37:19,360 --> 03:37:22,080
Speaker 1: these these actions have actually looked on the ground during

3512
03:37:22,120 --> 03:37:25,720
Speaker 1: the day of Yeah, so on the ground, Um, some

3513
03:37:25,800 --> 03:37:30,520
Speaker 1: people arrived very early, and you really never know when

3514
03:37:30,520 --> 03:37:32,160
Speaker 1: the cops in the city are going to show up.

3515
03:37:33,240 --> 03:37:39,600
Speaker 1: So ELM Fork showed up close to nine and they

3516
03:37:39,640 --> 03:37:44,080
Speaker 1: are already like four cops there, UM, and that you know,

3517
03:37:44,160 --> 03:37:46,840
Speaker 1: that's unfortunate. We probably should have shown up earlier. We

3518
03:37:47,040 --> 03:37:50,120
Speaker 1: you know, if if we're going to go to protect

3519
03:37:50,120 --> 03:37:52,000
Speaker 1: the other activists, you know, you don't want to leave

3520
03:37:52,040 --> 03:37:57,879
Speaker 1: the unarmed activists exposed to um police violence. UM. But

3521
03:37:57,959 --> 03:38:00,240
Speaker 1: either way, you know, we we formed up. It was

3522
03:38:00,280 --> 03:38:06,400
Speaker 1: maybe two unarmed activists for every armed activist, and we

3523
03:38:06,480 --> 03:38:09,320
Speaker 1: discussed what to do. Some people decided to block off

3524
03:38:09,360 --> 03:38:14,920
Speaker 1: the streets with their vehicles. UM. The cops were there

3525
03:38:15,000 --> 03:38:20,640
Speaker 1: for a solid hour and a half before almost Solution

3526
03:38:20,879 --> 03:38:25,480
Speaker 1: or the Office of Homeless Solutions and Code Compliance started arriving.

3527
03:38:26,440 --> 03:38:29,840
Speaker 1: So by that time, UM, a good number of armed

3528
03:38:29,840 --> 03:38:35,480
Speaker 1: activists were there and the cops had been discussing amongst themselves, UM,

3529
03:38:35,520 --> 03:38:37,840
Speaker 1: you know, whatever it is that they were talking about.

3530
03:38:38,000 --> 03:38:42,600
Speaker 1: But when oh HS and Code got there, they talked

3531
03:38:42,640 --> 03:38:45,879
Speaker 1: with the cops for about thirty minutes and then they

3532
03:38:45,920 --> 03:38:51,440
Speaker 1: started leaving. During that time, the unarmed activists were packing

3533
03:38:51,480 --> 03:38:55,600
Speaker 1: things up, UM get you know, getting people ready to move.

3534
03:38:55,640 --> 03:39:00,040
Speaker 1: If those people wanted to move, UH. One thing to

3535
03:39:00,040 --> 03:39:01,760
Speaker 1: to kind of go back a little bit. One thing

3536
03:39:01,920 --> 03:39:07,160
Speaker 1: that we've learned carrying is it's very difficult to do

3537
03:39:07,240 --> 03:39:12,680
Speaker 1: the same things that we were doing as an armed activists. Um,

3538
03:39:12,720 --> 03:39:15,359
Speaker 1: you know, we we don't really want to be carrying

3539
03:39:15,440 --> 03:39:18,720
Speaker 1: tents and stuff while also trying to negotiate, you know,

3540
03:39:18,840 --> 03:39:22,520
Speaker 1: having a rifle in our arms. So uh, you know,

3541
03:39:22,560 --> 03:39:26,480
Speaker 1: there's kind of a division of labor there. But you know,

3542
03:39:26,560 --> 03:39:30,120
Speaker 1: before two hours had even passed, basically the sweep was

3543
03:39:30,160 --> 03:39:33,360
Speaker 1: called off. The city and the cops left and the

3544
03:39:33,480 --> 03:39:35,760
Speaker 1: mutual aid work continued Throughout the rest of the day.

3545
03:39:36,720 --> 03:39:40,000
Speaker 1: H Elm Fork had some members switching out. You know,

3546
03:39:40,280 --> 03:39:42,600
Speaker 1: some people had to go to work. Some people arrived

3547
03:39:43,160 --> 03:39:46,000
Speaker 1: around noon that was kind of the main switch out point,

3548
03:39:46,600 --> 03:39:50,200
Speaker 1: and uh, you know, a lesser number of people but

3549
03:39:50,320 --> 03:39:53,840
Speaker 1: still a significant amount stayed there until four or five

3550
03:39:53,879 --> 03:39:57,720
Speaker 1: pm whenever four comes with guns. The main thing that

3551
03:39:57,840 --> 03:40:01,000
Speaker 1: I like to have them do is surveillance and be

3552
03:40:01,120 --> 03:40:04,520
Speaker 1: watching so that way we can focus on, um, having

3553
03:40:04,560 --> 03:40:07,640
Speaker 1: other volunteers actually help people, you know, and like have

3554
03:40:07,760 --> 03:40:11,160
Speaker 1: them help them move and stuff. And the surveillance definitely

3555
03:40:11,240 --> 03:40:14,000
Speaker 1: helps because what happens when the cops leave and when

3556
03:40:14,000 --> 03:40:16,240
Speaker 1: the city leaves is that they'll still have people like

3557
03:40:16,320 --> 03:40:20,200
Speaker 1: watching um and driving around and trying to surveil us UM,

3558
03:40:20,400 --> 03:40:23,600
Speaker 1: and so having more eyes on that situation and having

3559
03:40:23,640 --> 03:40:28,240
Speaker 1: them know like, yeah, we're still here is really helpful. Great, Um,

3560
03:40:28,240 --> 03:40:32,320
Speaker 1: Thank you. Did anybody else have additional questions to ask? James?

3561
03:40:32,320 --> 03:40:35,120
Speaker 1: You had one or two more things? Yeah, I'm like,

3562
03:40:35,400 --> 03:40:37,879
Speaker 1: I'm interested in and maybe asking bubble this because I'm

3563
03:40:37,879 --> 03:40:39,720
Speaker 1: just looking at the pictures on the on the Dallas

3564
03:40:39,760 --> 03:40:43,240
Speaker 1: Morning News story And incredibly they didn't lead with a

3565
03:40:43,280 --> 03:40:46,400
Speaker 1: picture of you all sort of suited and booted in

3566
03:40:46,440 --> 03:40:49,640
Speaker 1: full battle rattle, which I think is good on that part, um,

3567
03:40:50,280 --> 03:40:54,920
Speaker 1: But how do you present an event like this? Right? Like,

3568
03:40:56,080 --> 03:40:58,000
Speaker 1: obviously I think we should probably mention that, Like I'm

3569
03:40:58,040 --> 03:41:00,200
Speaker 1: guessing it's legal to open carry where you are, Uh,

3570
03:41:00,879 --> 03:41:04,120
Speaker 1: so you're not like immediately criming and therefore provoking a

3571
03:41:04,120 --> 03:41:09,240
Speaker 1: superfining confrontation with the police. Um, although obviously the police

3572
03:41:09,240 --> 03:41:12,280
Speaker 1: are always turning up armed um and that always brings

3573
03:41:12,320 --> 03:41:15,920
Speaker 1: violence into the equation. But are you like masque? Do

3574
03:41:16,040 --> 03:41:21,440
Speaker 1: you full like this person I'm seeing is like masked, helmet, goggles,

3575
03:41:21,440 --> 03:41:25,680
Speaker 1: plate carrier? Is that generally how you present or is

3576
03:41:25,680 --> 03:41:29,560
Speaker 1: that just left up to individuals I wonder, Um, we

3577
03:41:29,640 --> 03:41:33,879
Speaker 1: try to be pretty uniform, but it definitely varies by action.

3578
03:41:34,640 --> 03:41:38,280
Speaker 1: I think the last time we came out armed, um,

3579
03:41:38,360 --> 03:41:44,800
Speaker 1: we were not in helmets and plate carriers. Um, but

3580
03:41:45,760 --> 03:41:49,879
Speaker 1: you know everyone has one now and uh, we discussed

3581
03:41:49,879 --> 03:41:53,320
Speaker 1: it beforehand. We decided to go that way. Um. We

3582
03:41:53,400 --> 03:41:58,080
Speaker 1: try not to arc directly where we're going to get seen,

3583
03:41:58,520 --> 03:42:01,920
Speaker 1: you know, if all possible, Um, because we do need

3584
03:42:01,959 --> 03:42:05,400
Speaker 1: to get out Europe, you know, walk over in all

3585
03:42:05,440 --> 03:42:11,600
Speaker 1: our stuff. Um. But yeah, I think you know, for

3586
03:42:11,640 --> 03:42:14,000
Speaker 1: a lot of actions now, including security, that's kind of

3587
03:42:14,000 --> 03:42:18,480
Speaker 1: been our uh go to way of presenting. The full

3588
03:42:18,520 --> 03:42:22,160
Speaker 1: masks are very important. We've moved from like you know,

3589
03:42:22,200 --> 03:42:26,240
Speaker 1: medical style masks too, all the clava style masks, just

3590
03:42:26,320 --> 03:42:32,000
Speaker 1: to get more skin coverage, protect our identities better. Yeah,

3591
03:42:32,000 --> 03:42:35,000
Speaker 1: it makes sense. And one other thing I just wanted

3592
03:42:35,040 --> 03:42:38,200
Speaker 1: to ask and perhaps like explaining in a context it

3593
03:42:38,280 --> 03:42:40,520
Speaker 1: might might not be read of in Texas. I don't know. Um,

3594
03:42:41,120 --> 03:42:43,200
Speaker 1: in California, at least you need two proofs of address

3595
03:42:43,240 --> 03:42:46,600
Speaker 1: to a firearm, right um. Uh, and if you're inhoused

3596
03:42:46,640 --> 03:42:50,440
Speaker 1: you might not have those, and therefore people alienated from

3597
03:42:50,440 --> 03:42:53,360
Speaker 1: what it's theoretically they're right. Um, whether you want to

3598
03:42:53,360 --> 03:42:55,560
Speaker 1: see that as a universe or right or constitutional right,

3599
03:42:57,000 --> 03:42:59,480
Speaker 1: is that the case there or at these people? But

3600
03:42:59,560 --> 03:43:04,560
Speaker 1: if they to Texas, Texas, you don't. You don't have

3601
03:43:04,680 --> 03:43:06,800
Speaker 1: to file a four four seven three to buy a

3602
03:43:06,800 --> 03:43:09,720
Speaker 1: gun in the state of Texas. My gun literally was

3603
03:43:09,760 --> 03:43:11,680
Speaker 1: just given to me by somebody. I didn't have to

3604
03:43:11,720 --> 03:43:15,080
Speaker 1: do a DAL transfer or nothing. Like. Guns are so

3605
03:43:15,120 --> 03:43:18,240
Speaker 1: easy to get in Texas, it's actually really scary. Yeah,

3606
03:43:18,800 --> 03:43:21,440
Speaker 1: private sale, you can basically do whatever you want. Yeah,

3607
03:43:21,959 --> 03:43:24,240
Speaker 1: it is hard not to wind up owning a gun

3608
03:43:24,280 --> 03:43:30,920
Speaker 1: in the States. Easier than owning a place to stay. Definitely,

3609
03:43:30,920 --> 03:43:37,840
Speaker 1: way easier. Yeah, what a country method in the house? Okay, magnificent. Okay,

3610
03:43:37,840 --> 03:43:41,920
Speaker 1: well yeah, not the case in other states. I guess

3611
03:43:41,920 --> 03:43:44,560
Speaker 1: to know. And and nothing that we've said here should

3612
03:43:44,560 --> 03:43:48,520
Speaker 1: be taken as legal advice, are e, how to protest

3613
03:43:48,640 --> 03:43:51,760
Speaker 1: or partake an armed activism, because that can vary. That

3614
03:43:51,879 --> 03:43:55,040
Speaker 1: varies wildly based on your zip code. And everything we've

3615
03:43:55,040 --> 03:43:57,920
Speaker 1: talked about today is a massive series of felonies and

3616
03:43:58,000 --> 03:43:59,720
Speaker 1: a number of other parts of the United States, like,

3617
03:43:59,720 --> 03:44:02,359
Speaker 1: you're not You're not going to be providing sweep defense

3618
03:44:02,400 --> 03:44:06,280
Speaker 1: in New York City in this manner. You know, you

3619
03:44:06,320 --> 03:44:11,640
Speaker 1: do this where I live in show up into consideration. Yeah,

3620
03:44:11,760 --> 03:44:13,800
Speaker 1: so take obviously, I mean that's a big part of

3621
03:44:13,840 --> 03:44:16,000
Speaker 1: what you're saying. Those you have to take the situation

3622
03:44:16,000 --> 03:44:18,120
Speaker 1: on the ground. You have to take the situation with

3623
03:44:18,160 --> 03:44:22,200
Speaker 1: these people's individuals into You can't just you can't just

3624
03:44:22,240 --> 03:44:24,320
Speaker 1: go in and impose like this is how we're going

3625
03:44:24,360 --> 03:44:26,760
Speaker 1: to do sweep defense. You have to go in there

3626
03:44:26,800 --> 03:44:30,600
Speaker 1: like being willing to learn and adapt because, um, this

3627
03:44:30,680 --> 03:44:33,160
Speaker 1: is not you know, your day to day life, and

3628
03:44:33,240 --> 03:44:35,720
Speaker 1: it is life for folks there, and you have to

3629
03:44:35,720 --> 03:44:38,200
Speaker 1: come in willing to learn and understand what they need

3630
03:44:38,320 --> 03:44:41,879
Speaker 1: rather than like what you think they need. Yeah, the

3631
03:44:42,600 --> 03:44:44,400
Speaker 1: we never know what the city is going to show

3632
03:44:44,520 --> 03:44:48,879
Speaker 1: up with each time. Like the Monday sweep before this

3633
03:44:48,920 --> 03:44:53,280
Speaker 1: past one, it was all marshals. It wasn't even act

3634
03:44:53,320 --> 03:44:57,320
Speaker 1: like regular dp D. It was all marshals. They were

3635
03:44:57,320 --> 03:45:00,720
Speaker 1: ready to arrest. They had bulldozers and cranes and all

3636
03:45:00,720 --> 03:45:06,680
Speaker 1: types of ship. Um. And that was also that was

3637
03:45:06,760 --> 03:45:08,880
Speaker 1: kind of often because I was like, wow, y'all are

3638
03:45:08,920 --> 03:45:10,920
Speaker 1: being mad aggressive this time. I think we just pissed

3639
03:45:10,920 --> 03:45:12,840
Speaker 1: them off too much to the point where they were like,

3640
03:45:14,120 --> 03:45:17,720
Speaker 1: we have to be you know, meaner about it. Um.

3641
03:45:19,840 --> 03:45:21,960
Speaker 1: I mean, but we ain't been arrested yet, So yeah,

3642
03:45:22,440 --> 03:45:25,680
Speaker 1: fingers crossed. I do want to win. I do want

3643
03:45:25,680 --> 03:45:27,600
Speaker 1: to mention one more thing. I know we've talked about

3644
03:45:28,040 --> 03:45:31,600
Speaker 1: how this kind of pertains to Dallas, and you know,

3645
03:45:31,720 --> 03:45:36,200
Speaker 1: had the similar you know situations on increasing sweeps across

3646
03:45:36,240 --> 03:45:39,959
Speaker 1: the country in Portland. I think last month there was

3647
03:45:40,040 --> 03:45:43,320
Speaker 1: an episode on this show about a homeless encampment in

3648
03:45:43,400 --> 03:45:46,600
Speaker 1: Ohio and in terms of like similar stuff that has

3649
03:45:46,640 --> 03:45:49,240
Speaker 1: happened to kind of demonstrate this is like, you know,

3650
03:45:49,280 --> 03:45:52,160
Speaker 1: this is the thing going on all across the country. UH.

3651
03:45:52,200 --> 03:45:55,960
Speaker 1: There was a really interesting situation in Boise, Idaho earlier

3652
03:45:56,000 --> 03:45:58,400
Speaker 1: this year that we may want to cover more in

3653
03:45:58,440 --> 03:46:01,880
Speaker 1: depth in the future. But in January, when it was

3654
03:46:02,240 --> 03:46:07,600
Speaker 1: freezing outside, protesters and UH and homeless people launched an

3655
03:46:07,680 --> 03:46:11,080
Speaker 1: encampment in front of the Boise State Capital UH to

3656
03:46:11,320 --> 03:46:13,360
Speaker 1: kind of both provide you know, some type of shelter

3657
03:46:13,440 --> 03:46:16,080
Speaker 1: and community to help keep each other warm, but also

3658
03:46:16,200 --> 03:46:18,680
Speaker 1: in front of the capitol as like a protest to

3659
03:46:18,879 --> 03:46:22,640
Speaker 1: demand access to shelter. Um. You know, and when while

3660
03:46:22,680 --> 03:46:25,000
Speaker 1: in the middle of like a pretty bad housing crisis

3661
03:46:25,040 --> 03:46:28,880
Speaker 1: and as it's freezing outside. UH. People at the camp

3662
03:46:28,920 --> 03:46:32,240
Speaker 1: faced a lot of basically NonStop harassment from the state,

3663
03:46:32,560 --> 03:46:36,720
Speaker 1: whether that's police or like state state police. UH. They

3664
03:46:36,760 --> 03:46:41,080
Speaker 1: also faced a lot of UH problems from far right

3665
03:46:41,240 --> 03:46:46,920
Speaker 1: militia groups. The Idaho Liberty Dogs showed up to harass people.

3666
03:46:46,959 --> 03:46:49,600
Speaker 1: There was you know, militia showing up with guns. UM.

3667
03:46:49,640 --> 03:46:53,520
Speaker 1: So you can see like another instance where something that

3668
03:46:53,560 --> 03:46:56,000
Speaker 1: you know arm where another instance where armed community defense

3669
03:46:56,040 --> 03:46:59,720
Speaker 1: could be UH could be a part in trying to

3670
03:46:59,840 --> 03:47:05,199
Speaker 1: key of situations like that from not escalating if done properly. Obviously,

3671
03:47:05,200 --> 03:47:08,000
Speaker 1: if done improperly, that can escalate situations. It was up

3672
03:47:08,040 --> 03:47:09,800
Speaker 1: to you know, you have to make sure that you're

3673
03:47:09,840 --> 03:47:12,280
Speaker 1: with people who are you, who you know, who you trust,

3674
03:47:12,280 --> 03:47:14,880
Speaker 1: and who are responsible. But it's just it's it's another

3675
03:47:14,920 --> 03:47:18,880
Speaker 1: instance of stuff like this happening. UH. Anti fascists and

3676
03:47:18,920 --> 03:47:22,040
Speaker 1: other activists were able to push were able to keep

3677
03:47:22,800 --> 03:47:26,320
Speaker 1: conflicts from these militia groups to be relatively low at

3678
03:47:26,440 --> 03:47:30,560
Speaker 1: at the at the encampment and after a few months

3679
03:47:30,560 --> 03:47:34,200
Speaker 1: and like courts were trying to shut the protest. That

3680
03:47:34,400 --> 03:47:39,160
Speaker 1: was unsuccessful because of certain laws around camping on on

3681
03:47:39,320 --> 03:47:43,960
Speaker 1: like Capital grounds for protests. But after a few months

3682
03:47:43,959 --> 03:47:46,560
Speaker 1: the protest was able to end and the city is

3683
03:47:46,760 --> 03:47:51,120
Speaker 1: now been pushed by the protest to open up possibly

3684
03:47:51,280 --> 03:47:55,080
Speaker 1: hundreds of units of shelter in the near future. So

3685
03:47:55,120 --> 03:47:58,560
Speaker 1: you see other instances of of these types of protests

3686
03:47:58,640 --> 03:48:00,800
Speaker 1: that you know, rely on, a lot of like radical

3687
03:48:00,879 --> 03:48:03,600
Speaker 1: mutual aid, a lot of resistance to the state violence,

3688
03:48:03,600 --> 03:48:04,960
Speaker 1: a lot of a lot of resistance to far right

3689
03:48:05,040 --> 03:48:09,959
Speaker 1: violence actually being some like successful. Um, so there's a

3690
03:48:09,959 --> 03:48:13,800
Speaker 1: lot of places to learn from in this type of

3691
03:48:13,800 --> 03:48:17,520
Speaker 1: thing around homeless encampments and encountering state violence. Would recommend, uh,

3692
03:48:18,240 --> 03:48:20,120
Speaker 1: It's going down, has a lot of good coverage of

3693
03:48:20,440 --> 03:48:23,480
Speaker 1: the Boys the Idaho thing. So yeah, that's just like

3694
03:48:23,560 --> 03:48:26,280
Speaker 1: a whole whole other angle to this, to this sort

3695
03:48:26,320 --> 03:48:31,039
Speaker 1: of trend that we've been seeing the past year. I

3696
03:48:31,080 --> 03:48:35,400
Speaker 1: would like to say that you are not for the

3697
03:48:35,400 --> 03:48:39,000
Speaker 1: al Castro. You know, you are not the revolutionary leader.

3698
03:48:39,040 --> 03:48:40,959
Speaker 1: You are not the one you know like, and you

3699
03:48:41,040 --> 03:48:43,039
Speaker 1: need to keep that in mind when you're moving in

3700
03:48:43,080 --> 03:48:46,800
Speaker 1: these spaces and doing this type of work. Is if

3701
03:48:46,879 --> 03:48:49,600
Speaker 1: your goal is to try and be like the guy

3702
03:48:49,959 --> 03:48:53,760
Speaker 1: you know, uh that does way more harm than good,

3703
03:48:53,920 --> 03:48:56,880
Speaker 1: and that's really important to keep in mind, UM and

3704
03:48:56,920 --> 03:49:00,199
Speaker 1: dismantling your save your complex as part of that. Um.

3705
03:49:01,240 --> 03:49:02,960
Speaker 1: Of course, in that case, you know, the house is

3706
03:49:03,040 --> 03:49:07,320
Speaker 1: people uh residents, were you know, consenting to it and

3707
03:49:07,360 --> 03:49:11,160
Speaker 1: things like that. But please do take into account the

3708
03:49:11,160 --> 03:49:14,280
Speaker 1: amount of danger that you're putting very the most vulnerable

3709
03:49:14,320 --> 03:49:21,720
Speaker 1: populations into. Um. It is not necessarily a good idea,

3710
03:49:22,000 --> 03:49:28,800
Speaker 1: we're morally okay, idea to uh make houseless people into

3711
03:49:28,840 --> 03:49:32,520
Speaker 1: your people's army, you know that is not And I

3712
03:49:32,560 --> 03:49:35,480
Speaker 1: want to make sure that everybody you know listening is

3713
03:49:35,520 --> 03:49:38,440
Speaker 1: also well aware of like, that is the wrong way

3714
03:49:38,480 --> 03:49:41,280
Speaker 1: to go about this. The people's army should be people

3715
03:49:41,440 --> 03:49:44,600
Speaker 1: like us, not the most vulnerable of us, because they

3716
03:49:44,640 --> 03:49:48,720
Speaker 1: are already fighting very hard. So that means that's like

3717
03:49:48,800 --> 03:49:50,640
Speaker 1: it's the same thing like saying white people should be

3718
03:49:50,640 --> 03:49:53,920
Speaker 1: at the front lines protecting black and brown people during protests.

3719
03:49:53,920 --> 03:49:57,560
Speaker 1: It's the same exact concept. You protect the most vulnerable

3720
03:49:57,640 --> 03:50:01,960
Speaker 1: of the group. You do not make them, um, you know,

3721
03:50:02,120 --> 03:50:04,440
Speaker 1: your army and try to convert them into something and

3722
03:50:04,480 --> 03:50:07,440
Speaker 1: be the leader of that either. Um, that is that

3723
03:50:07,640 --> 03:50:10,200
Speaker 1: is not the way to go about that. Yeah, if

3724
03:50:10,240 --> 03:50:13,520
Speaker 1: you're if you're if you're entering into this relationship with

3725
03:50:13,560 --> 03:50:15,320
Speaker 1: the plan that like, this is a way for us

3726
03:50:15,400 --> 03:50:18,720
Speaker 1: to build power for whatever end, as opposed to we're

3727
03:50:18,760 --> 03:50:22,480
Speaker 1: here to help these people. Um, then you're you're putting

3728
03:50:22,520 --> 03:50:25,480
Speaker 1: them second to whatever your political goals are, which is

3729
03:50:26,200 --> 03:50:30,280
Speaker 1: bad broadly speaking. I mean, and I know I know

3730
03:50:30,440 --> 03:50:33,400
Speaker 1: at least in the case of the IDA of of

3731
03:50:33,600 --> 03:50:38,720
Speaker 1: in the Ohio encampment that we talked about earlier this month, um,

3732
03:50:38,760 --> 03:50:41,080
Speaker 1: and the IDA who want as well a large number

3733
03:50:41,080 --> 03:50:44,040
Speaker 1: of people who are like leading up that project and

3734
03:50:44,120 --> 03:50:47,160
Speaker 1: in prominent ortization rules where houses people who are living

3735
03:50:47,160 --> 03:50:49,360
Speaker 1: at those camps, Like, it is very important to have

3736
03:50:50,400 --> 03:50:53,160
Speaker 1: people who are like you don't want to go in

3737
03:50:53,200 --> 03:50:55,360
Speaker 1: as someone with stable housing and be like, Okay, I'm

3738
03:50:55,360 --> 03:50:57,320
Speaker 1: in charge of this thing now. No, it's like the

3739
03:50:57,360 --> 03:50:59,840
Speaker 1: people that are actually experiencing it need to be the

3740
03:51:00,320 --> 03:51:04,600
Speaker 1: like a critical role in actually how it functions. Yeah,

3741
03:51:04,640 --> 03:51:08,320
Speaker 1: and there we've had not we but like there was

3742
03:51:08,400 --> 03:51:10,840
Speaker 1: somebody who tried to do that, um, and it definitely

3743
03:51:10,840 --> 03:51:15,880
Speaker 1: did more harm than good. Um, putting your political goals

3744
03:51:16,000 --> 03:51:20,560
Speaker 1: over just the people is always going to fail every

3745
03:51:20,600 --> 03:51:25,040
Speaker 1: single time. Yeah, listen to the people. If they're not

3746
03:51:25,200 --> 03:51:29,040
Speaker 1: leading it, don't do it. You know, like at that

3747
03:51:29,120 --> 03:51:32,320
Speaker 1: point your only priority should be getting them what they

3748
03:51:32,320 --> 03:51:36,680
Speaker 1: need and defending them if necessary. Trying to lead stuff

3749
03:51:36,720 --> 03:51:41,160
Speaker 1: and you know, have them putting them into more vulnerable

3750
03:51:41,360 --> 03:51:44,320
Speaker 1: situations than they're already at without like fully being transparent

3751
03:51:44,360 --> 03:51:48,840
Speaker 1: with people or being transparent with all the risks involved.

3752
03:51:49,120 --> 03:51:56,760
Speaker 1: You know, like it's that's real, grimy, real, not okay behavior. Um,

3753
03:51:56,760 --> 03:51:58,840
Speaker 1: So that's just something I also want to caution people against.

3754
03:51:58,880 --> 03:52:02,880
Speaker 1: And all of that definitely roots back to dismantling your

3755
03:52:02,880 --> 03:52:08,840
Speaker 1: savior complex. And there's um a lot of good um

3756
03:52:09,040 --> 03:52:14,480
Speaker 1: resources out there, um for starting with that process if

3757
03:52:14,600 --> 03:52:18,040
Speaker 1: you have not already, some of them wrong with your

3758
03:52:18,080 --> 03:52:23,040
Speaker 1: chest Instagram Also you get out and follow us or something?

3759
03:52:23,040 --> 03:52:25,080
Speaker 1: I don't know, Yeah, yeah, do you wanna I think,

3760
03:52:25,120 --> 03:52:28,320
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm I'm I'm at the out of questions personally,

3761
03:52:28,320 --> 03:52:31,560
Speaker 1: do we want to um uh end with kind of Yeah,

3762
03:52:31,560 --> 03:52:34,000
Speaker 1: how folks can follow you and stay in touch with

3763
03:52:34,040 --> 03:52:39,080
Speaker 1: what y'all are doing or potentially even support you. Yeah,

3764
03:52:39,560 --> 03:52:44,440
Speaker 1: we are at say it with your chest dt X

3765
03:52:44,600 --> 03:52:49,920
Speaker 1: on Instagram. UM. I also organized with the Dallas Seberation Movement,

3766
03:52:49,920 --> 03:52:53,680
Speaker 1: which is a bigger or that mobilizes across the nine

3767
03:52:53,680 --> 03:52:57,040
Speaker 1: thousand square miles of d FW. UM. I run that

3768
03:52:57,160 --> 03:53:02,400
Speaker 1: with three of my good friends and organizers. Uh. And

3769
03:53:02,480 --> 03:53:04,720
Speaker 1: so you can follow us at Dallas Liberation m b

3770
03:53:04,920 --> 03:53:09,640
Speaker 1: MPT on Instagram. UM. Oh, if you're willing, able and

3771
03:53:09,720 --> 03:53:14,840
Speaker 1: financially stable, throw us some cash please and listen to

3772
03:53:14,920 --> 03:53:17,280
Speaker 1: black women. Listen to black and indigenous women. That's all

3773
03:53:17,320 --> 03:53:20,600
Speaker 1: I got, all right, um, bubble, did you have anything

3774
03:53:20,640 --> 03:53:25,680
Speaker 1: to add? I think it's important to have diverse collection

3775
03:53:25,720 --> 03:53:29,280
Speaker 1: of groups. UM. You know, Danny's a hero, she's out

3776
03:53:29,280 --> 03:53:34,480
Speaker 1: there almost every day. UM. For ELM Fork, we do

3777
03:53:34,560 --> 03:53:36,920
Speaker 1: a lot of trainings, we do a lot of classes,

3778
03:53:37,600 --> 03:53:40,280
Speaker 1: UM that take up our resources, but we have these

3779
03:53:40,320 --> 03:53:45,040
Speaker 1: longstanding relationships so that we can support each other UM

3780
03:53:45,120 --> 03:53:49,120
Speaker 1: when need be. UM. You know, take care of your

3781
03:53:49,240 --> 03:53:51,320
Speaker 1: take care of your spaces, take care of your communities.

3782
03:53:51,360 --> 03:53:55,000
Speaker 1: Like Danny said, UM, focus on the people in those

3783
03:53:55,000 --> 03:54:01,920
Speaker 1: spacesther that be UH and housed people or your own organizers, activists.

3784
03:54:03,040 --> 03:54:05,960
Speaker 1: You know, you gotta keep you gotta keep things safe.

3785
03:54:06,120 --> 03:54:09,160
Speaker 1: It's hot out here. There's been a lot of stress

3786
03:54:09,200 --> 03:54:14,080
Speaker 1: and conflicts, and you always have to practice UM restorative

3787
03:54:14,120 --> 03:54:19,400
Speaker 1: justice and accountability. UM. And you know just keep fighting,

3788
03:54:19,520 --> 03:54:24,600
Speaker 1: keep keep loving each other. All right, Well that's gonna

3789
03:54:24,600 --> 03:54:29,200
Speaker 1: do it for everybody here at It could happen here today.

3790
03:54:29,280 --> 03:54:36,200
Speaker 1: Uh yeah, go go go do something good. Hey, We'll

3791
03:54:36,200 --> 03:54:39,320
Speaker 1: be back Monday with more episodes every week from now

3792
03:54:39,360 --> 03:54:42,000
Speaker 1: and totally heat death of the Universe. It could Happen

3793
03:54:42,040 --> 03:54:44,360
Speaker 1: Here is a production of cool Zone Media. For more

3794
03:54:44,400 --> 03:54:47,200
Speaker 1: podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website cool zone

3795
03:54:47,200 --> 03:54:49,080
Speaker 1: media dot com, or check us out on the I

3796
03:54:49,160 --> 03:54:52,440
Speaker 1: Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

3797
03:54:52,840 --> 03:54:54,960
Speaker 1: You can find sources for It could Happen Here, updated

3798
03:54:55,000 --> 03:54:58,480
Speaker 1: monthly at cool zone Media dot com slash sources. Thanks

3799
03:54:58,520 --> 03:54:59,040
Speaker 1: for listening.