Speaker 1: Welcome to Creature feature production of iHeartRadio. I'm your host
Speaker 1: of Many Parasites, Katie Golden. I studied psychology and evolutionary biology,
Speaker 1: and today on the show, I a new tongue of toad, well,
Speaker 1: more like excreation of toad. We're talking about the natural poisonous,
Speaker 1: which is bruise of the animal kingdom, from trippy toads
Speaker 1: to petrifying platypuses. We're talking about animals who snow white
Speaker 1: might want to keep some distance from. Discover this and more.
Speaker 1: As we answered the age old question, should we talk
Speaker 1: about the birds, bees, and snakes given that snake bites
Speaker 1: can reverse puberty. Joining me today is author of the
Speaker 1: John Dyes at the End series and the new book
Speaker 1: Zoe Is Too Drunk for This Dystopia.
Speaker 2: Jason Pargin Welcome.
Speaker 3: Very eager to talk about this because my understanding of
Speaker 3: all of nature prior to today was that everything on
Speaker 3: Earth exists for humans to eat, like that's why the
Speaker 3: planet is here. It is a buffet. So finding out
Speaker 3: that some of these things can really mess you up
Speaker 3: in ways that seem like a witch's curse is very shocking.
Speaker 1: I mean, look, you still can't eat it. Technically what
Speaker 1: happens after is just you know, that's.
Speaker 2: Up to you.
Speaker 3: I just feel like it's irresponsible on the animal's part,
Speaker 3: right because it's like, what's what's the point of that?
Speaker 3: You are, you're walking food. You you surely realize this.
Speaker 1: It's as if they don't want us to eat them,
Speaker 1: which can't be true.
Speaker 3: I don't understand, but we'll get into it because they
Speaker 3: may have ulterior motives, but ultimately I think it's just
Speaker 3: something it's a misunderstanding.
Speaker 1: Well, Jason, I'm sure you've heard of psychedelic toads. In fact,
Speaker 1: I'm one hundred percent sure, because you were the one
Speaker 1: who was interested in talking about them today.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I only know it as a pop culture phenomenon.
Speaker 3: It's something that you constantly hear, you know, you see
Speaker 3: it in movies or whatever, where they will lick a
Speaker 3: toad in the desert. I think there's a Simpsons episode
Speaker 3: where it happens. And I have always assumed that that
Speaker 3: is not strictly true, that you could not just literally
Speaker 3: pick it up, lick its back, and then suddenly start tripping.
Speaker 3: I assumed it's one of those things that just pervaded
Speaker 3: into pop culture. But it's more real than what I thought.
Speaker 3: But I've never known why such a creature exists or
Speaker 3: how we found out such a creature exists.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so it is a mixture of truths and half truths,
Speaker 1: but mostly it is as weird as pop culture would
Speaker 1: make it sound. Of course, I'm going to start this
Speaker 1: by saying, don't lick toads, even if you think you'll
Speaker 1: get high. They're much more likely to make you sick.
Speaker 1: And also it's mean to the toad. Did you get
Speaker 1: that toad's consent? I don't think so. So that being said,
Speaker 1: it is true that psychedelic toad toxin is a real thing,
Speaker 1: and human beings do ingest it recreationally. Typically though it
Speaker 1: is not through licking the toad, but it goes through
Speaker 1: a whole process before being ingested. Usually it's smoked. I'm
Speaker 1: not gonna go into detail about how it's made, partially
Speaker 1: because I don't know, and partially because I don't want
Speaker 1: the dea on my butt. But yes, I suffice it
Speaker 1: to say that people can and do have psychedelic experiences
Speaker 1: with toad toxin, and it's usually processed before they ingest it,
Speaker 1: and it's not the best thing for the toad to do,
Speaker 1: so it's not a victimless crime.
Speaker 3: Generally, if you've been rolled up and smoked, you're probably
Speaker 3: not still alive, regardless of what kind of a life
Speaker 3: form you are.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's I don't think they make just a
Speaker 1: fat dube out of the toad. They generally will scrape
Speaker 1: the toxin off the toad. It doesn't have to kill
Speaker 1: the toad, but it's not a good situation, Like the
Speaker 1: toad's basically getting milked getting scraped, and that is not
Speaker 1: a great situation for the toad. In fact, there are
Speaker 1: like poachers who try to get these toads. There's also
Speaker 1: people who try to farm these toads, and farming is
Speaker 1: actually quite bad for toads because there are a lot
Speaker 1: of fungal infections that really threaten toad populations. And when
Speaker 1: you have a bunch of toads kind of in a
Speaker 1: concentrated area on some kind of toad farm, you greatly
Speaker 1: increase the chance of these fungal infection spreading and then
Speaker 1: it could potentially spread a wild population. So it's not
Speaker 1: exactly a sustainable drug toad psychedelic toxin, but that doesn't
Speaker 1: stop people from necessarily.
Speaker 2: Trying to do it.
Speaker 3: By the way, there could be a whole separate episode
Speaker 3: in the fact that we humans tend to assume that
Speaker 3: basically anything can be farmed. Yeah, a big controversy over
Speaker 3: octopus farming because it's a delicacy and they're like, well,
Speaker 3: let's just farm them, as like, these are intelligent creatures.
Speaker 3: Not everything has been domesticated over tens of thousands of
Speaker 3: years to be suitable to be herded and bred or
Speaker 3: whatever en mass. So yeah, it's not just these tots.
Speaker 3: There's lots of creatures that don't do well because that
Speaker 3: is very unnatural in terms of environment for them.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean exactly right, Like there, you can't just
Speaker 1: farm an exotic gam animal and expect that to turn
Speaker 1: out well for either the animal or for you. The
Speaker 1: farm animals that we have right now, I mean, of
Speaker 1: course farming is not always great even for them, but
Speaker 1: they have been selected over many thousands of years for domestications,
Speaker 1: so yeah, that's quite a bit of a different situation.
Speaker 1: You can't just saddle up a toad and expect it
Speaker 1: to be like a cow or something where you can
Speaker 1: go and milk the toads every morning. But toads do
Speaker 1: produce a toxin, and it's not created to make us
Speaker 1: get high. It is actually there to protect them from predators.
Speaker 1: So there are lots of toads and frog species as
Speaker 1: well that produce toxins, and that toxin is truly intended
Speaker 1: to ward off predators. So the toad will ooze toxin
Speaker 1: when it feels threatened, usually from a few glands on
Speaker 1: its body, and predators will either get sick or disgusted
Speaker 1: and will either stop trying to eat the toad and
Speaker 1: release it, or become sick after eating the toad, learning
Speaker 1: a very painful lesson and in some cases, potentially lethal
Speaker 1: lesson that this toad is not good to eat.
Speaker 3: I find this absolutely fascinating because it is something I
Speaker 3: had literally never thought of before, that you have a
Speaker 3: defense that doesn't necessarily save that individual toad, because, as
Speaker 3: you can imagine, you've seen predators eat a lot of them,
Speaker 3: do not gingerly test the food before they A lot
Speaker 3: of them just snap it up and swallow it, and
Speaker 3: so it would be them getting sick and then learning
Speaker 3: not to eat other similar toads. In other words, the
Speaker 3: fence is not necessarily to save that toad. It's a
Speaker 3: collective defense, like, hey, don't I have sacrificed myself to
Speaker 3: teach you not to eat the other toads like me, which,
Speaker 3: of course the toad does not have that thought or
Speaker 3: any thought. But the way that a defense evolved in
Speaker 3: that manner, I think is really interesting. I think it's
Speaker 3: kind of inspirational because it's like, well, sometimes in your
Speaker 3: own life you may run into a disaster, but this
Speaker 3: is the world using you as an example to teach other.
Speaker 1: People, right, I mean it is so there are animals,
Speaker 1: including these toads. The toads can sometimes survive this, and
Speaker 1: in fact, sometimes like the predator will just get a
Speaker 1: whiff of this tox and like kind of get it
Speaker 1: on their nose or on their mouth and lips and
Speaker 1: realize something's off. Some toads are able to spray it
Speaker 1: a little bit so that it's definitely a warning to
Speaker 1: the predator to back off. But there are animals certainly
Speaker 1: where it is rare for them, despite their talks and
Speaker 1: to survive a predator encounter, including butterflies. So butterflies, there
Speaker 1: are a lot of butterfly species, like monarchs, who are toxic.
Speaker 1: They are not good to eat, and they do not
Speaker 1: necessarily survive if a bird tries it, Like they're very
Speaker 1: delicate creatures. The bird, if it even does spit it out,
Speaker 1: that butterfly is probably not gonna make it. However, you
Speaker 1: still see this protective effect of butterflies, like butterflies like monarchs,
Speaker 1: having this warning coloration called apisimitism, which deters predators like
Speaker 1: birds from eating them, despite the fact it doesn't necessarily
Speaker 1: prevent that first individual that gets eaten by a bird.
Speaker 1: So it's not an altruistic thing, right, Like, it's not
Speaker 1: somehow these butterfli having a collective consciousness of we are
Speaker 1: going to save future butterflies. So because like you can imagine,
Speaker 1: like say you have a butterfly who develops this trait
Speaker 1: and it doesn't help itself at all, it gets eaten.
Speaker 2: Well, those genes.
Speaker 1: Don't get passed on, So how does this ball even
Speaker 1: get rolling in the first place. You need like a
Speaker 1: critical mass of the butterfly population who have this mutation
Speaker 1: or development that actually survive. And so one of the
Speaker 1: theories is that the same adaptation of the bright colors
Speaker 1: and the toxicity also helps it survive in other ways.
Speaker 2: So the bright coloration, the.
Speaker 1: Toxicity may make them more viable to be able to
Speaker 1: produce offspring, even beyond just being preyed upon. So, for instance,
Speaker 1: that bright coloration makes it more noticeable to the opposite
Speaker 1: sex and allows it more mating opportunities, and maybe the
Speaker 1: toxin helps protect it from parasites, and so those things
Speaker 1: already make it more likely to pass on its genes.
Speaker 1: And then you get this added benefit of predators learning, hey,
Speaker 1: these really bright butterflies are nasty and they give me
Speaker 1: a tummy ache. So you have this kind of two
Speaker 1: pronged thing where it enough of them evolve this characteristic,
Speaker 1: perhaps for unrelated reasons, but then it also has this
Speaker 1: population protective effect of these predators learning the really bright
Speaker 1: monarchy butterflies are discussed and they make me puke. So
Speaker 1: it is really interesting. In fact, there are butterfly species
Speaker 1: who are not toxic who have adapted to take advantage
Speaker 1: of this apisomatic protection that the toxic species have. So
Speaker 1: you'll have a mimic it was not toxic, could be eaten,
Speaker 1: you know, delicious butterfly, and then it copies the look
Speaker 1: of a toxic butterflies. This is called Baitsian mimicry. Uh
Speaker 1: So then the tasty butterfly benefits from that protection because
Speaker 1: a bird looks at it and says, this looks like
Speaker 1: one of the yucky butterflies. I'm not going to eat it.
Speaker 1: The really interesting thing is if these mimics are too numerous,
Speaker 1: it actually dilutes the effect efficacy of the protective coloration
Speaker 1: because then birds learn like, actually, when I eat these
Speaker 1: are really bright butterflies. Uh, they they're fine. I'm okay.
Speaker 1: It's like, you know, you have enough of the false
Speaker 1: signal to bury the real signal. So you have these
Speaker 1: population dynamics where the mimics have to be in low
Speaker 1: enough numbers in order for the bait the for the
Speaker 1: apisomatic coloration to actually benefit them. So you see this
Speaker 1: like these poppy dynamics where the if the mimic population
Speaker 1: gets too many, you have this like crash in the
Speaker 1: population and then a rise in the population of.
Speaker 2: The toxic butterflies.
Speaker 1: It's really it's very interesting mathematically, which we won't talk
Speaker 1: about the math because I cannot no, but I love.
Speaker 3: This because it's such a great demonstration of how this
Speaker 3: is all a machine. So, for example, if you have
Speaker 3: coloration that is supposed to signal to predators or I
Speaker 3: keep using terminology like it's designed you are supposed to
Speaker 3: you as if the butterflies play in this. I of
Speaker 3: course know that's not how this works.
Speaker 1: It's just so hard to get away from that language
Speaker 1: because this is how human beings work. So like we
Speaker 1: have intention, we have we design things, and so we
Speaker 1: use that kind of language when we're talking about things
Speaker 1: that don't have that. But it's really hard, even if
Speaker 1: we understand that's not the case, it's hard to not
Speaker 1: use that language.
Speaker 3: You and I are primates and tool users, so we
Speaker 3: want to see things through the lens of This is
Speaker 3: a tool they designed, because that's how we always see
Speaker 3: the world. That's our evolution. But for example, if you
Speaker 3: have a specific predator, say a bird, your coloration only
Speaker 3: works in a range of colors that that's bird's eyes
Speaker 3: can see. It does you no good if that so
Speaker 3: your color is somewhat is partly dictated by the design
Speaker 3: of the eyes of the birds that are eating you.
Speaker 3: And whether or not this mimicry works gets back to
Speaker 3: the whatever the rudimentary psychology or decision making of the bird.
Speaker 3: I know birds do not have psychology, but they do
Speaker 3: have a decision making process in terms of in terms
Speaker 3: of the risk reward, Like am I going to risk
Speaker 3: if I know the only one out of fifty of
Speaker 3: these is poisonous and it's like no, fine, I'll happily
Speaker 3: risk that. But every animal has different concept of risk.
Speaker 3: That is something else that evolves. You know that the
Speaker 3: scarcity of food changes that equation. So the the way,
Speaker 3: the decision making, the eyes, the sense organs of your
Speaker 3: enemies dictate what you will look like and how you act.
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, I mean these these relationships between animals can
Speaker 1: be very close, regardless of whether it is you know,
Speaker 1: symbiotic in sort of a mutualism where it's mutually beneficial
Speaker 1: or symbiotic and predator prayer relationships. You know, you can
Speaker 1: have a very close relationship with between two animals where
Speaker 1: they are constantly trying to either evade or kill each other,
Speaker 1: but they still have this very intimate connection because they
Speaker 1: are shaping each other's evolution and in fact they can
Speaker 1: have in it. Like if you know, people think, well,
Speaker 1: if you remove a predator, that's really good for the
Speaker 1: prey population because they never have they don't have to
Speaker 1: contend with that predator. Well, in fact, sometimes if you
Speaker 1: remove a predator, the prey population is in danger because
Speaker 1: they become too numerous, they compete for more resources, they
Speaker 1: spread disease. So yeah, these relationships relationships are very fascinating,
Speaker 1: and you really there is no animal is an island.
Speaker 1: Everyone is sort of you know, pushing and squeezing on
Speaker 1: the other through evolutionary history and shaping what the other
Speaker 1: animal looks like, what it does, everything about it, I mean,
Speaker 1: ourselves included. Now that we've talked a little bit about
Speaker 1: the background behind why animals have these toxins, let's talk
Speaker 1: about one of the most famous psychedelic toads, the Sonoran
Speaker 1: desert toad. It is found in southwestern United States and
Speaker 1: northwestern Mexico. It is a brownish green warty toad that
Speaker 1: lives in areas that go through wet and dry seasons,
Speaker 1: and actually during the dry season, the toad lives in
Speaker 1: burrows underground and it comes up during what summer seasons.
Speaker 1: They emerge and they congregate in rivers, streams, ponds, or
Speaker 1: swimming pools because human neighborhoods are often within the fro
Speaker 1: within the toad's range, and this is the call it
Speaker 1: makes when it's trying to find a mate. That's a
Speaker 1: pretty sound. I like it, little little humming sound. So
Speaker 1: they seem really innocuous, and yet they excrete a potent
Speaker 1: toxin from glands behind their eyes and on their legs.
Speaker 1: So this toxin can be deadly or at the very
Speaker 1: least make predators very sick. And you know, hopefully the
Speaker 1: predator will release the toad after getting a mouthful of
Speaker 1: this toxin, but you know, if they go through with
Speaker 1: consuming it, they can either get really.
Speaker 2: Sick or even die.
Speaker 1: And this is actually a problem for domesticated dogs who
Speaker 1: can be very curious about the toad. But in terms
Speaker 1: of human interactions with this toad, the toxin also contains DMT,
Speaker 1: which might sound familiar to some of you. It is
Speaker 1: a psychoactive compound and when smoked, this compound can cause
Speaker 1: a psychedelic trip with hallucinations, sometimes feelings of euphoria. You know,
Speaker 1: sometimes it can go very wrong. Like psychedelic trips can
Speaker 1: either be pleasant or be horrifying. It's I think somewhat
Speaker 1: dependent on your frame of mind at the time, your
Speaker 1: own individual physiology. But yeah, so the compound in this
Speaker 1: toad toxin binds to serotonin receptors and other neurotransmitter receptors,
Speaker 1: which alters the concentration of neurotransmitters and neural activation. So
Speaker 1: it very directly interferes with the firing of your neurons
Speaker 1: and the abundance of neurotransmitters in your brain. And so
Speaker 1: it is a really interesting thing that you know, this toxin,
Speaker 1: which is not created so that we can get high,
Speaker 1: it's for a totally different reason, can directly bounce around
Speaker 1: in our brains make us go into a completely altered
Speaker 1: state of mind where people see things, that they feel
Speaker 1: things very differently how they normally would.
Speaker 2: It is truly.
Speaker 3: Bizarre, and is other things in nature that caused us effect,
Speaker 3: like of course mushrooms, and I think there's various types
Speaker 3: of even there's like a lichen or a fungus to
Speaker 3: something else that if you lick it off a rock
Speaker 3: you can get you high. Is it all the same thing?
Speaker 3: Are these all defenses against because other creatures would find
Speaker 3: that fatal rather than t off that as a generally?
Speaker 3: Have they all evolved for that same reason?
Speaker 1: I don't know if every single one of them has,
Speaker 1: but all of the ones that I know of are
Speaker 1: defensive toxins that have that are there for, uh, trying
Speaker 1: to deter predators that might eat them, certainly on toads.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that is the case.
Speaker 1: Uh, And I mean it's kind of funny because even
Speaker 1: though those are meant to be defensive toxins to prevent
Speaker 1: predators from eating them, occasionally animals will actually catch on
Speaker 1: to the fact that this can get them high and
Speaker 1: they will try to lick the toxin off of the toad.
Speaker 1: So this is I don't know all of the animals
Speaker 1: who do this, but dogs, domesticated dogs and horses have
Speaker 1: been observed licking these toads, and it's not a great thing.
Speaker 1: Like Australian dogs, Domesticated dogs in Australia often lick cane
Speaker 1: toads and while it isn't necessarily deadly if they just
Speaker 1: do a few licks, if they overindulge in the cane toad,
Speaker 1: they can get really sick and have to go to
Speaker 1: the vet. And in South America, horses have been known
Speaker 1: to lick the waxy tree frog, which is another psychedelic
Speaker 1: species of frog. And it yeah, they they seemingly just
Speaker 1: do it because they've learned it gets them high and
Speaker 1: they likes to do it.
Speaker 3: I find that equally fascinating because I would assume, like
Speaker 3: to what degree a horse can hallucinate, Like, I assume
Speaker 3: this is something that we simply that we simply don't
Speaker 3: know the details of, Like we can observe their behavior,
Speaker 3: we can observe that they seem to go into a
Speaker 3: state or don't seem aware of what they are or whatever.
Speaker 3: But I would assume from the animal's point of view,
Speaker 3: it's just a feeling of care free pleasure or whatever,
Speaker 3: because from an evolutionary point of view, you would think
Speaker 3: this would be extremely risky to put yourself in a
Speaker 3: situation where you're now not aware of your surroundings or
Speaker 3: are seeing things that are not there, Like, even if
Speaker 3: it's fun, it seems like, especially as nervous as horses are,
Speaker 3: being prey animals, it's very easy for them to harm themselves.
Speaker 3: Like if I can imagine one hallucinating, you know, a
Speaker 3: wolf for a bird of prey or something else that's
Speaker 3: frightened up and then running itself to death or whatever.
Speaker 3: I find that fascinating that they do it anyway, because
Speaker 3: again we know that people do it, but when people
Speaker 3: do it, you always describe some very human reason that
Speaker 3: we're trying to fight off our anxiety or we're trying
Speaker 3: to find some deeper meaning in the universe. But a
Speaker 3: dog is not doing that. A dog is just it
Speaker 3: just feels feels good.
Speaker 2: I guess yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean, I do think any animal that can perceive
Speaker 1: the world in some way can hallucinate, because hallucination is
Speaker 1: just the activation of your perceptive areas of the brain,
Speaker 1: your sensory areas of the brain, without there actually being
Speaker 1: an external stimuli. So any animal, I think with that,
Speaker 1: with the ability to perceive, has the ability to hallucinate.
Speaker 1: We of course wouldn't necessarily know what those hallucinations would
Speaker 1: be like. But I do think that the dogs and
Speaker 1: the horses who are doing this are doing it for
Speaker 1: the euphoria. And animals are not perfect machines, right, like,
Speaker 1: including humans, we can't know, Like, even though evolution favors
Speaker 1: us to do things that are in our own best
Speaker 1: interest in terms of survival, that doesn't mean we're going
Speaker 1: to do it when they're The reward system that keeps
Speaker 1: us alive also is activated by things that hurt us,
Speaker 1: so they they like, you know, the this is the
Speaker 1: serotonin system that is you know, part of the the
Speaker 1: impact of the toxin has on serotonin receptors, which is
Speaker 1: one of the sort of reward systems of the brain.
Speaker 1: And so getting that getting that high, getting that reward
Speaker 1: is so appealing. I mean, you see that with with
Speaker 1: human habits, right, Like, we do things all the time
Speaker 1: that are bad for us, but we have such a
Speaker 1: powerful reward system in the brain. You know, evolution cannot
Speaker 1: predict all of these sort of you know, loopholes in
Speaker 1: terms of things that like, hey, I feel good when
Speaker 1: I eat an apple when I'm hungry, and that's good
Speaker 1: because that keeps me from keeling over and dying of hunger.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 1: And there's no way, as we're evolving for evolution to
Speaker 1: some how have kind of a omniscient understanding that like, well,
Speaker 1: I better make sure that the same system I do
Speaker 1: when they eat the apple also doesn't activate when they
Speaker 1: like drink too much wine or eat a bunch of sugar,
Speaker 1: because those things aren't good for them. You know. It's
Speaker 1: if those reward systems are still activated, we're gonna do it,
Speaker 1: perhaps absent some sort of wisdom that this is harming
Speaker 1: us because it feels good and our brain is completely
Speaker 1: primed to give into those reward systems, because generally those
Speaker 1: things have kept us alive for thousands, hundreds of thousands
Speaker 1: of years.
Speaker 3: You get these paradoxes where things like hot peppers, you know,
Speaker 3: those are that is a mechanism to deter certain animals
Speaker 3: from eating, to deter the wrong animals from eating the
Speaker 3: fruit of these of these plants. Right, they have the
Speaker 3: capsaisent or water the chemical is that will burn their
Speaker 3: tongue or whatever. And then here we people breed these
Speaker 3: things and make them into sauces because we have decided
Speaker 3: that the whatever it is, the adrenaline rush of the
Speaker 3: mild pain on the tongue enhances flavor or the experience
Speaker 3: somehow like the pain that this thing is trying to generate.
Speaker 3: It's like, yes, we have evolved to enjoy that, if
Speaker 3: in a specific amount. But if you could, if you
Speaker 3: could somehow make a chili pepper scentient and then make
Speaker 3: it watch that YouTube show where the people eat the
Speaker 3: wings with the increasingly hot sauces on them. The pepper
Speaker 3: would probably be very surprised.
Speaker 1: I mean, the pepper would think we're all perverts because
Speaker 1: we're all masochistically subjecting ourselves to this pain. I mean
Speaker 1: it is weird, wrong, it is very interesting. I mean,
Speaker 1: there are other benefits to spicy food. It makes you sweat,
Speaker 1: which can help you cool off in uh in hot
Speaker 1: or humid environments. And it also has some ability to
Speaker 1: mask the taste of food that's gone off a bit
Speaker 1: but you can still eat it, or food that's maybe
Speaker 1: not you know, great tasting, but then the spiciness makes
Speaker 1: it taste okay because you're so focused on the spiciness,
Speaker 1: and it's you know, people do you know.
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm one of them.
Speaker 1: I enjoy spice, not extreme spiciness. I can't eat when
Speaker 1: my eyes are full of tears and there's not running
Speaker 1: down my face. But I like a good amount of spice.
Speaker 1: And it takes a little while to ramp up to
Speaker 1: getting some spice. But it's it's like a weirdly Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's like you associate it with You start to associate
Speaker 1: it with this good flavored food and the spice somehow
Speaker 1: enhances the flavor of the food or enhances the experience
Speaker 1: of the food. It's really interesting. So, yeah, we will
Speaker 1: subject ourselves even to pain because our reward system is
Speaker 1: very complex and will activate even when we're doing things
Speaker 1: that doesn't seem like it's in our best interest. Although
Speaker 1: spicy food, as long as you don't over indulge, won't
Speaker 1: hurt you. If you do overindulge, you'll punish yourself and
Speaker 1: your bathroom.
Speaker 3: Huge spots of human behavior falls into this category of
Speaker 3: things where we are mildly abusing ourselves in some way
Speaker 3: that provides us some different pleasure. The whole complex interaction
Speaker 3: of that is basically how all of society works.
Speaker 2: Yep.
Speaker 1: So we're going to take a quick break and when
Speaker 1: we get back, we're going to talk about an animal
Speaker 1: who is surprisingly dangerous and also, in the spirit of
Speaker 1: what we've been talking about, how humans look at that
Speaker 1: and see opportunity. All right, so we are back and
Speaker 1: we're going to about a cute little animal who is
Speaker 1: kind of surprisingly terrifying.
Speaker 2: So platypusses.
Speaker 1: Platypusses are small, cute, little monotremes found in Australia. I
Speaker 1: think sometimes people are surprised by the size of them,
Speaker 1: because like, at least when I used to think of platypus,
Speaker 1: I would think of something like that's beaver sized, because
Speaker 1: for some reason I put them in the same category
Speaker 1: as beaver. Hey, it's an aquatic mammal and it swims
Speaker 1: around and it's got that long, that flat tail, so
Speaker 1: I thought, you know, it's like beaver size. They're actually
Speaker 1: quite small. They can fit into your cupped hands. They're
Speaker 1: much smaller than a beaver, and they eat earthworms mostly.
Speaker 2: They lay eggs. They have a bill.
Speaker 1: Female platypusses will seep milk out of their bellies to
Speaker 1: feed their young, so they don't have nipples. They just
Speaker 1: have pores on their tummies that basically leak milk, and
Speaker 1: so they are this kind of archaic version of mammals.
Speaker 1: They're still mammals, but they are monotremes. They're related to
Speaker 1: echidneas as well, and males have a venomous spur on
Speaker 1: their heel that can dose you with a potent, very
Speaker 1: painful toxin.
Speaker 3: Okay, before we get into the point of this, which
Speaker 3: is the fact that males have the toxic spurs, is
Speaker 3: there honestly no type of plat platypus that is like big,
Speaker 3: because I instantly in my mind am imagining many, many
Speaker 3: thousands of photos and videos of these things being like
Speaker 3: big enough to sit on your desk and cover most
Speaker 3: of it, like a large eyes a beaver bilt maybe
Speaker 3: slightly larger than a beaver. No, I'm very eager to
Speaker 3: hear if there are other listeners who are stunned to
Speaker 3: find out that platypuses are small, because I don't know
Speaker 3: where this started, but this is like a Berenstain Bears
Speaker 3: thing for me. I'm now going to go look, and
Speaker 3: I know for a fact it's going to turn out
Speaker 3: that you're right. I'm not going to find a single
Speaker 3: photo of somebody like cradling this thing in both arms.
Speaker 3: But man, I'm for some reason, I'm really surprised to hear.
Speaker 1: That, Yeah, they don't get that big. The things that
Speaker 1: do get big. It's interesting. Echidnas actually do get large,
Speaker 1: Like echidnas can get much larger than a platypus. Wombats too,
Speaker 1: those can get quite large. So there are monotremes u
Speaker 1: and marsupials that can get big, and yeah, it really is.
Speaker 1: It's one of those things. For me, I suspect it's
Speaker 1: because I have placed beaver and like platypus is Australian
Speaker 1: beaver essentially, and beaver's can get to be quite big.
Speaker 1: But yeah, the platypus is no, they they tend to
Speaker 1: stay relatively small. You know, it's about chihuahua size or smaller.
Speaker 1: Very weird, right, No, I get it because I had
Speaker 1: this misconception as well, and I was surprised to find
Speaker 1: out that they really don't get that big. But despite
Speaker 1: being small, they can pack a punch with that venomous spur.
Speaker 1: So it's thought that this venomous spur was common among
Speaker 1: archaic mammals and that the platypus inherited it from its ancestors.
Speaker 1: It is actually found in echidnas, the other this other
Speaker 1: type of monotorum, but it is a vestigial trait, so
Speaker 1: the spur does not actually contain any venom and the
Speaker 1: echidna so the venom is only found in the male platypus.
Speaker 1: The spike is this curved, hollow, caratinous structure, so it's
Speaker 1: the same material as claws or fingernails, but it is
Speaker 1: attached to a venom gland that is potent enough to
Speaker 1: kill a dog. The venom actually doesn't seem to kill
Speaker 1: other platypuses. There seems to be some amount of resistance
Speaker 1: to their own venom, though they can be immobilized by
Speaker 1: it or paralyzed by it, so the venom cannot kill
Speaker 1: a human. You might be breathing a sigh of relief,
Speaker 1: but hang on, it can ruin your day, your week,
Speaker 1: or possibly many months, because it can have an effect
Speaker 1: that is very painful, lasts a long time, and is
Speaker 1: resistant to most of our strongest painkillers. So the pain
Speaker 1: was first described in scientific literature in eighteen seventy six
Speaker 1: by a natural William Webb Spicer, who wrote of this
Speaker 1: unnamed victim quote, the pain was intense and almost paralyzing.
Speaker 1: But for the administration of small doses of Brandy, he
Speaker 1: would have fainted on the spot. As it was, it
Speaker 1: was half an hour before he could stand without support.
Speaker 1: By that time, the arm was swollen to the shoulder
Speaker 1: and quite useless, and the pain in the hand very severe.
Speaker 3: So, I mean, medicine was awesome. I've tried every type
Speaker 3: of liquor on my shelf and the patient still has
Speaker 3: not recovered. It appears that this bite is with stands
Speaker 3: even the finest of whiskey.
Speaker 1: I mean, honestly, so these stings are The pain is
Speaker 1: resistant to morphine and other painkillers, modern medical painkillers. So
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know whether brandy wouldn't be
Speaker 1: better in this situation because morphine does not really seem
Speaker 1: to work very well against platypus venom, which is kind
Speaker 1: of horrifying given that the pain can last hours or
Speaker 1: days or weeks, or in a few extreme cases it's
Speaker 1: lasted months. So there was a case of a fifty
Speaker 1: seven year old victim whose afflicted hand remained sensitive and
Speaker 1: in pain for around three months, which you know, you
Speaker 1: might think, well, like three months, you know, I could
Speaker 1: handle that, but just it's your hand, Like, imagine it
Speaker 1: being swollen and in pain, just from this little cute
Speaker 1: duck mammal that you found, and it just it seemed
Speaker 1: like it was gonna be fine, and it heal kicked
Speaker 1: you into pain for three months.
Speaker 3: See, that's the thing, because if you spend time on
Speaker 3: say TikTok, you find out that, especially in the social
Speaker 3: media era, we people have decided that the whole world
Speaker 3: is just full of our pets and potential pets. Like
Speaker 3: people will approach bison and elk and all of these
Speaker 3: because after all, this is nature. These are animals. They
Speaker 3: are peaceful animals who coexist in nature. So they will
Speaker 3: go get a selfie or a photo or a video
Speaker 3: of them petting a bison or a bull or whatever.
Speaker 3: So something like a platypus. If you were an American
Speaker 3: vacationing in Australia and trying to get some great video
Speaker 3: and you've saw one of these things by somebody of water,
Speaker 3: oh my god, would you want to pick that thing
Speaker 3: up and get video of it? Because it's a little
Speaker 3: duck duck build duck build mouse thing. So when this
Speaker 3: thing stings you and then you find out that this
Speaker 3: is like worse than the average snake bite, apparently because
Speaker 3: most snake bites aren't that bad, and you're so having
Speaker 3: paid weeks later, I think you would be very surprised
Speaker 3: and disappointed in nature.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I have seen this trend on TikTok of people
Speaker 1: picking up animals and then twirling around with them like
Speaker 1: they're in that scene from the Titanic. I'm gonna go
Speaker 1: ahead and say don't do that. Maybe don't do that,
Speaker 1: primarily because that's gonna annoy the animal. The animal is
Speaker 1: not Rose from the Titanic. It does not want to
Speaker 1: be twirled like a baroness. It wants to be left
Speaker 1: that heck alone. Secondary reason is you never know when
Speaker 1: an animal got a poisonous barb and is gonna sting
Speaker 1: you with it. I'm not gonna say that. There aren't
Speaker 1: many animals out there who are secretly poisonous or secretly
Speaker 1: venomous just so people will not mess with them as much. Bison,
Speaker 1: they've got a giant unicorn horn that can invenimate you. Actually, no,
Speaker 1: they can just gore you. And that's probably good enough.
Speaker 3: I am telling everyone in the sound of my voice,
Speaker 3: all of these creatures can move faster than you think. Yes,
Speaker 3: there is horrifying video of people who thought it would
Speaker 3: be fun to approach an alligator or a crocodile, because,
Speaker 3: after all, they are very slow. They kind of float
Speaker 3: in the water like logs, and they would get It's like, well,
Speaker 3: I've watched Steve Berwin. You know, they'll like get on
Speaker 3: top of it and get a video of it, like
Speaker 3: stroking it's back or something. And they can bite so
Speaker 3: fast yep, that the camera doesn't capture the motion. There's
Speaker 3: a splash and then your hand is gone. Yeah, because
Speaker 3: you have to understand, these things evolved to be able
Speaker 3: to bite faster than a deer can react and you're
Speaker 3: just a person who works in an office. I promise
Speaker 3: you you do not perceive how fast nature moves and
Speaker 3: how fast the average predator can bite because they have
Speaker 3: to bite faster than you can see or they would starve.
Speaker 3: They can bite in a fraction of a second. They
Speaker 3: can complete the motion. You will not get out of
Speaker 3: the way. I think a lifetime of watching movies and
Speaker 3: wild animals and movies where it's a cg animal and
Speaker 3: the guys having to fight it or whatever jump out
Speaker 3: of the way. It's like, no, in real life, if
Speaker 3: it decides to buy you, you're not going to know
Speaker 3: it until your hand is already gone.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's this like famous photo of a human arm
Speaker 1: in I believe it was an alligator. It could have
Speaker 1: been a crocodile, but it had it in its mouth
Speaker 1: and it's just like this inert hand in its mouth.
Speaker 1: I think it was at It may have been at
Speaker 1: a zoo or a nature preserve, so I think it
Speaker 1: was actually the hand of a professional. So if a
Speaker 1: professional sometimes lose this is hand to alligators and crocodiles,
Speaker 1: most of us don't really have a chance. But you
Speaker 1: know again, human beings, we're endlessly innovative and interested in
Speaker 1: running towards the danger in case it might improve our lot.
Speaker 1: The very horrifying venom of the platypus that is resistant
Speaker 1: to painkillers and can last for weeks or months. Some
Speaker 1: people are like, hey, that's great, let's study it because
Speaker 1: we might actually discover more about pain management and new
Speaker 1: ways to relieve pain that doesn't involve opiates, or to
Speaker 1: address pain that doesn't respond well to our current painkillers.
Speaker 1: So I do appreciate that part of the human spirit
Speaker 1: where we were like, this is horrible and deadly. Maybe
Speaker 1: it's medicine, and often it is. It's like we've done
Speaker 1: this with stak venom, We've done this with various dangerous compounds,
Speaker 1: where we're like, well, this is horrible and does bad
Speaker 1: stuff to our blood and our bodies. Maybe that means
Speaker 1: it can be medicine. And that's how we've created things
Speaker 1: like anticoagulants or pro coagulants that can help people because
Speaker 1: we're masochists who enjoy the thrill of subjecting ourselves to
Speaker 1: weird and terrifying stuff.
Speaker 3: Or maybe it could be a weapon, if you're looking
Speaker 3: for some sort of a chemical weapon that could not
Speaker 3: be treated by painkillers. It's like, hey, the platypuses have
Speaker 3: mastered this, let's learn their ways.
Speaker 1: I like the idea of having our armies just be
Speaker 1: little platypuses. That would be adorable. Most adorable war crime
Speaker 1: would be torturing someone with a platypus.
Speaker 3: Just dropping them out of planes, little tiny pear chutes.
Speaker 1: Well, we're going to take a quick break, but when
Speaker 1: we get back, we're going to talk about an animal
Speaker 1: who actually does have a medical use and sometimes creates
Speaker 1: a medical marvel that is very rare and very weird.
Speaker 2: So we will be right back.
Speaker 1: So, Jason, you actually brought this up to me, which
Speaker 1: I found really interesting. I was skeptical and then I
Speaker 1: looked into it and it is actually true. It is
Speaker 1: a snake bite that has been known to cause so
Speaker 1: called reverse puberty to the rare, unlucky victim. So this
Speaker 1: is courtesy of the Russell's vipers. So Russell's vipers are
Speaker 1: found in and near India. It is a large brown
Speaker 1: snake about four feet long so over a meter, with
Speaker 1: brown oval patterns. It is I'm not gonna say it
Speaker 1: looks like a rattlesnake because it's missing the rattle and
Speaker 1: rattlesnakes are much bumpier. But the patterns on its skin
Speaker 1: are somewhat similar. This is exactly the kind of snake
Speaker 1: to be wary of. I do love to talk about
Speaker 1: snakes on the podcast that you do not need to
Speaker 1: be so scared of and that we should love and appreciate.
Speaker 2: This is one you should be scared of.
Speaker 1: And while we can love and appreciate it, we gotta
Speaker 1: do it from afar because it is venomous and they
Speaker 1: like to hang out near human areas. They do this
Speaker 1: because when there's human activity, there is rodent activity. The
Speaker 1: rodents like to eat our food and our waste, and
Speaker 1: the snakes like to eat the rodents, and so these
Speaker 1: snakes will be found around people. And their venom is
Speaker 1: very potent and it can hurt and kill people, and
Speaker 1: it has so. Without treatment, their venom can be very
Speaker 1: deadly to humans and cause problems such as black from
Speaker 1: the gums, blood in the urine, blistering, and necrosis that
Speaker 1: means the death of the tissue near the bite. Can
Speaker 1: cause facial swelling, vomiting, kidney failure, blood clots, blood poisoning,
Speaker 1: and heart failure. Pain can last for weeks following the bite.
Speaker 1: Like a lot of snake venom, it can interfere with
Speaker 1: clotting blood clotting, so the venom can cause both blood
Speaker 1: clotting and bleeding, so destruction of the blood vessels and
Speaker 1: the increase in blood clot formation, which is a kind
Speaker 1: of weird and horrible combination. But it's so good at
Speaker 1: inducing blood clots, which can cause problems in vivo in
Speaker 1: the human body, but in vitro. It is used in
Speaker 1: medical laboratory settings to test the clotting ability of blood,
Speaker 1: so this is really useful actually to look for the
Speaker 1: presence of something called lupus anticoagulant. So if the blood
Speaker 1: clots in the standard amount of time when given a
Speaker 1: little drop of this snake venom, it means that this
Speaker 1: lupus anticoagulant is not present, But if it takes longer,
Speaker 1: it indicates the presence of this lupus anti coagulant that
Speaker 1: interferes with the development of clots. I could get into
Speaker 1: a whole explanation about what lupus anticoagulant is, because it's
Speaker 1: actually a pro coagulant in the body and it's confusing,
Speaker 1: but that seems like a topic for a medical podcast,
Speaker 1: not this one. But the point is that this snake
Speaker 1: venom is actually an important and useful medical diagnostic tool, and.
Speaker 3: Me today it is. But the reason I wanted to
Speaker 3: talk about this one is because I have this belief
Speaker 3: that I think most cultures, most human cultures, have specific
Speaker 3: beliefs about snakes and that they are you know, because obviously,
Speaker 3: and you know in our culture we have the snake
Speaker 3: and the Bible and whatever it refers to serpents, they're
Speaker 3: very apocalyptic or devious. I think the idea that snakes
Speaker 3: are cursed in some way comes to the fact that
Speaker 3: when when they get a bite, it's not just that
Speaker 3: it swells up and hurts. You get effects that are weird,
Speaker 3: Like you look at the list of you know what
Speaker 3: in the urine, bleeding from the gums. It would have
Speaker 3: to seem like a curse like you had been if
Speaker 3: you were an ancient people, it not seemed like you
Speaker 3: were bit by an animal, but that this animal has
Speaker 3: cursed you with a whole range of ailments that don't
Speaker 3: seem to have anything to do with the bite.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what's spooky about snake venom is that it
Speaker 1: has such a wide range of effects, like over the
Speaker 1: whole body, and it creates these like hellish symptoms and
Speaker 1: people that are scary to look at, even more.
Speaker 3: Scared as one of them. Your face swells up was
Speaker 3: one of the symptoms. So it's uncontrollable vomiting and your
Speaker 3: face is swelling and there's blood in your urine, like
Speaker 3: you would just have to feel like this is a
Speaker 3: league you've been attacked with.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's horrible, horrible, horrible, it's I mean, you know,
Speaker 1: it's so important that we have anti venom because anti
Speaker 1: venom treatment can prevent or help reduce symptoms and it
Speaker 1: can save your life. An answer to your you wanted
Speaker 1: to know if we still use the snake venom in
Speaker 1: diagnostic tests, and yes we do.
Speaker 2: It's called diluted Russell.
Speaker 1: Viper venom time dr VVT, which is a very popular
Speaker 1: test used in labs for trying to find this loopus anticoagulant. So,
Speaker 1: as far as I know, this test is still used.
Speaker 1: It sounds like archaic, but if it works, it works.
Speaker 1: I mean, once you have a compound that can induce
Speaker 1: coagulation and blood, that is very useful for testing whether
Speaker 1: the blood is able to coagulate at all. Another interesting
Speaker 1: medical phenomenon with this snake is the so called reverse
Speaker 1: puberty that it can cause. So reverse puberty doesn't really
Speaker 1: mean you turn back into a teenager and go full
Speaker 1: Benjamin Buttons, but it does mean that sexually mature characteristics
Speaker 1: can be either interfered with or revert. So medically speaking,
Speaker 1: this is a case of hypopituitarism, so that means that
Speaker 1: the pituitary gland is not as active as it should
Speaker 1: be or is not at all active. So the peituitary
Speaker 1: gland is responsible for producing hormones that they regular a
Speaker 1: lot of bodily processes, but that includes things associated with
Speaker 1: puberty and post puberty. So the way this snake messes
Speaker 1: with your sexual characteristics is that the Russell's viper venom
Speaker 1: can cause bleeding or clotting in the pituitary gland, which
Speaker 1: damages it and disrupts its function, and this can cause
Speaker 1: in rare cases, and in the rare cases that this happens,
Speaker 1: this can cause pubic or armpit hair loss. It can
Speaker 1: interfere with the minstrel cycle, either stopping it or causing irregularity.
Speaker 1: It can decrease libido and cause rectile and sexual dysfunction.
Speaker 1: So yeah, very much like a witch's curse this venom.
Speaker 1: It's so bad because it's actively damaging the tissue of
Speaker 1: the p puuritary gland in these cases, and so you know,
Speaker 1: in these rare cases that this happens, people sometimes have
Speaker 1: to go on hormone treatment for life because the puritary
Speaker 1: gland it can no longer function, it can't heal, and
Speaker 1: so they have to receive hormone treatments for the rest
Speaker 1: of their life to treat these issues and to keep
Speaker 1: their body functioning normally.
Speaker 3: And it seems to an ancient people or even just
Speaker 3: in a part of the world where they don't have
Speaker 3: great modern education, it's so different from you know, if
Speaker 3: you get bitten by a lion or an alligator, it
Speaker 3: bites you, it is chewed off a part of your arm,
Speaker 3: it's trying to eat you. That's extremely clear what's happening there,
Speaker 3: the idea of getting bit by a snake and that
Speaker 3: over the course of months, your whole body changes in ways.
Speaker 3: It seems to be reverting you to youth or whatever,
Speaker 3: like certain hair falls out and you're sexual performance changes
Speaker 3: or all of these various effects that are just hormonal.
Speaker 3: If you don't know the mechanism of that, you would
Speaker 3: have to think like you would have to go looking
Speaker 3: for the snake to find out how to appease it
Speaker 3: or something to reverse the curse. You would have to
Speaker 3: regard it as as some sort of a magical thing.
Speaker 3: I would think it just it feels mystical. It doesn't
Speaker 3: feel like something an animal should be able to do
Speaker 3: to you with a bite.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's so funny too, because the snake has
Speaker 1: no interest in causing us harm like this. It really
Speaker 1: could not care less about whether our pubic hair falls off.
Speaker 1: That venom is mostly for its prey, so it uses
Speaker 1: that venom to shock and paralyze and kill its prey,
Speaker 1: and that is its preferred usage for it. In fact,
Speaker 1: there are a lot of snakes that are venomous, but
Speaker 1: when they bite you, they actually do what's called a
Speaker 1: dry because they don't want to waste their venom on
Speaker 1: you because they would much prefer to use it on
Speaker 1: their prey. But if they feel very threatened they will,
Speaker 1: or if they mistake you for prey like that, they're
Speaker 1: happy enough to use their venom to protect themselves. And
Speaker 1: it is it's just weird and kind of unfortunate that
Speaker 1: it has such a profound effect on us and has
Speaker 1: such like truly like you have.
Speaker 2: Been cursed.
Speaker 1: And it I definitely can see why snakes are involved
Speaker 1: in a lot of sort of folklore and mysticism because
Speaker 1: it is it is such a such a potent natural
Speaker 1: toxin that they have. Before we go, we do got
Speaker 1: to play a little game called the Mystery Animal Sound game.
Speaker 2: Every week I play.
Speaker 1: A mystery animal sound and you the listener, and you
Speaker 1: the gest try to guess who is making that sound.
Speaker 1: It can be any animal. So last week's Mystery animal sound,
Speaker 1: the hint was this, This raptor is all about no
Speaker 1: shave November?
Speaker 2: All right?
Speaker 1: Could you hear that thing that sounded like a broken
Speaker 1: squeaky toy?
Speaker 3: You've already in the hint told us that it's a raptor,
Speaker 3: right right, Like it's a type of bird of prey.
Speaker 2: That's right, And you made a.
Speaker 3: Reference to no shave November. Let me try to visualize
Speaker 3: it and try to think of what are the mustache
Speaker 3: related birds that I know, because there are so many.
Speaker 3: I am going to say that is the sound of
Speaker 3: a Siberian mustache goal.
Speaker 1: I love it sounds like it could be a real bird. However,
Speaker 1: this is the bearded vulture. Congratulations too, the Western Australian
Speaker 1: Insects Study Society Anti be and saga E for guessing correctly.
Speaker 1: So you're close with that Siberian mustached goal which I
Speaker 1: don't believe is a real bird. But maybe if we,
Speaker 1: you know, keep our minds open, we will discover such
Speaker 1: a bird. Certainly, there aren't.
Speaker 3: Any more ridiculous than the thing you just said there are.
Speaker 1: You can't come up with a bird that doesn't at
Speaker 1: least have a counterpart in real life. That is just
Speaker 1: as if not more ridiculous. So yes, this is the
Speaker 1: bearded vulture. It is found in southern Europe. Actually it's
Speaker 1: kind of near me. It's in Grand Paradiso National Park.
Speaker 1: I have gone out so many times trying to see
Speaker 1: this bird. Never once, never, once have I seen one.
Speaker 1: Someday hopefully. It's also found in East Africa, India and
Speaker 1: the surrounding area as well as Tibet. So they are
Speaker 1: a very large raptor that is a bird of prey.
Speaker 1: They have a wingspan that can get up to over
Speaker 1: nine feet, so that's nearly three meters of wingspan. That
Speaker 1: is Jesus yep, it's a big, big, big old bird.
Speaker 1: They are a wonderfully spooky, halloweeny bird because their diet
Speaker 1: is almost entirely bones.
Speaker 3: That sounds very cool, but I'm telling you, every single
Speaker 3: listener who is imagining in their head this bearded vulture
Speaker 3: is picturing the wrong thing. There's almost no way it
Speaker 3: has the thick look jurious beard that all of us
Speaker 3: want it to have. And I'm worried that if I
Speaker 3: go look up a picture of it right now, I'm
Speaker 3: going to be extremely disappointed.
Speaker 1: I don't think you will be, because it is a
Speaker 1: beautiful bird, so look it up. The reason it's called
Speaker 1: bearded is because rather than being bald like most vultures,
Speaker 1: it has full head of hair, full head of feathers,
Speaker 1: and around its neck and chest it has these beautiful,
Speaker 1: scruffy feathers that it looks fantastic. And these feathers often
Speaker 1: have this beautiful kind of pink reddish hue, which I'll
Speaker 1: talk about why that happens a little bit. But Jason,
Speaker 1: have you looked up a photo and are you disappointed?
Speaker 3: I have, and I'm not trying to contradict you, but
Speaker 3: I don't think it's called bearded because of the red
Speaker 3: feathers on its throat seems to have a little black
Speaker 3: goatee style beard dangling down from the base of its beak.
Speaker 2: It could be it does have a little.
Speaker 3: Straight up seems to have a very bad beard, but again.
Speaker 1: It does have a weird little sideburns.
Speaker 3: Like I guess, okay, I see yeah, Like from the side,
Speaker 3: I can see someone thinking that it's that that's its
Speaker 3: little beard.
Speaker 1: That it's got a little go tea. Yeah, that actually
Speaker 1: might be why you might be right, Yes, it has.
Speaker 2: It has that.
Speaker 1: Little weird go tea and then a pink these pinkish
Speaker 1: red scruffy neck feathers and then sort of black and
Speaker 1: white feathers on the rest of it. It's truly an
Speaker 1: amazing looking bird. I think it's beautiful, actually it is.
Speaker 3: The problem is that the beard is the least impressive part.
Speaker 3: The beard looks like it's kind of been dyed black,
Speaker 3: like a worst dad who grew out like a go
Speaker 3: tee and doesn't know he's like trying to start a
Speaker 3: band or something, and he's like in his forties and
Speaker 3: he's like got a dyed black go tea. Like it's
Speaker 3: the least impressive feature of the animal. And I think
Speaker 3: it's kind of sad that they named it the bearded vulture,
Speaker 3: like they're calling out this one feature because that is
Speaker 3: the least impressive thing about it, should.
Speaker 1: Be called the soul patch vulture. But nevertheless, they eat bones,
Speaker 1: which is pretty metal.
Speaker 2: I love it.
Speaker 1: And it's not just the bone marrow. They eat the
Speaker 1: entire bone. They can digest the whole bone. Over ninety
Speaker 1: percent of their diet is just bones. Their powerful digestive
Speaker 1: juices dissolves the bone. They do need to break apart
Speaker 1: the bone into chunks that are small enough that it
Speaker 1: can swallow whole, So they either snap apart brittle bones
Speaker 1: on the ground, or for the more stubborn bones, they
Speaker 1: can pick them up and and drop them from a
Speaker 1: height and then it shatters on the ground and they
Speaker 1: pick up the little pieces and swallow those whole. So
Speaker 1: even though they look like they would attack you and
Speaker 1: try to rip out your livery, the most you have
Speaker 1: to fear from them is them accidentally dropping a bone
Speaker 1: on your head, which is pretty unlikely because their populations
Speaker 1: are not that not that big, and their populations have declined,
Speaker 1: which is sad. Another cool thing about these guys is,
Speaker 1: despite being spooky, bone eating soul patched gods. They also
Speaker 1: love makeup, so that beautiful kind of reddish orange pinky
Speaker 1: hue on their chest feathers is actually makeup that they
Speaker 1: have applied. It is rusty, iron rich dirt and mud
Speaker 1: that they have intentionally rubbed themselves with. And while it's
Speaker 1: not one hundred percent known why they do this, the
Speaker 1: thought is that it makes them more sexually attractive. So
Speaker 1: both the males and females do this, so gender equity hooray.
Speaker 1: And they probably do it to appear more mature and
Speaker 1: more attractive to mates, and they might also do it
Speaker 1: to make themselves look more impressive to their peers, regardless
Speaker 1: of whether they want to mate, so that they know, like,
Speaker 1: this is a fit, healthy, beautiful makeup wearing bearded vulture,
Speaker 1: and I probably shouldn't try to mess with them or
Speaker 1: invade their territory, so you know it is. It's one
Speaker 1: of those things where like anyone who wears makeup might
Speaker 1: feel the same way, whereast you do it sometimes because
Speaker 1: you want to be attractive to people you are sexually
Speaker 1: interested in, and sometimes you do it because you just
Speaker 1: want to look impressive and send a message about yourself,
Speaker 1: or just because you like how you look in the mirror.
Speaker 3: See it looks to me and again I am pulling
Speaker 3: a fact straight out of my butt. It looks like that.
Speaker 3: It spreads the red dirt around its face to look
Speaker 3: like blood, as if as in I just got finished
Speaker 3: eating some big, bloody animal. Don't mess with me.
Speaker 2: You think that.
Speaker 1: But the thing is, these guys don't get too much
Speaker 1: gore on themselves, given that they eat bones.
Speaker 3: They you know, that's not what they actually do. I'm
Speaker 3: saying that maybe just it's like a it's it's an
Speaker 3: affectation they see they saw like polar bears. They get
Speaker 3: like the blood all over the fer and it looks
Speaker 3: so bad at r yeah yeah. Or it could be
Speaker 3: could look like barbecue sauce.
Speaker 1: Barbecue sauce. I think it's the barbecue sauce because like
Speaker 1: if you know someone's got a good sauce on like that,
Speaker 1: they have a barbecue sauce that's so good that they
Speaker 1: don't feel self conscious about it, dribbling everywhere.
Speaker 2: That's the barber.
Speaker 1: I want to go to w I hang out with
Speaker 1: that guy right, well know war about him? Can you
Speaker 1: imagine being someone who can eat bones whole and be
Speaker 1: at a barbecue. It's like you've got even more ribs
Speaker 1: to enjoy. All right, So onto this week's mystery animal sound.
Speaker 1: The hint is this, This ferocious wild carnivore would eat
Speaker 1: you if only it didn't fit inside your pocket. All right,
Speaker 1: did you hear that little sound?
Speaker 3: So that sounded to me like a little kitten meowing.
Speaker 3: But but because I know how this show runs and
Speaker 3: that it is a labyrinth of lies that is probably
Speaker 3: trying to throw me off, so I'm going to say
Speaker 3: that is a he said it's a predator that can
Speaker 3: fit in your pocket. So I'm gonna say that is
Speaker 3: a South American microgator, the brand of tiny little four
Speaker 3: inch long alligators that live down there.
Speaker 1: Oh man, I wish, oh, I would love that. I
Speaker 1: would break my own rule of one shouldn't keep exotic
Speaker 1: pets if there were microgators that would stay tiny forever.
Speaker 2: Ugh, so cute.
Speaker 3: They're chubby, they're almost round, and they can barely walk
Speaker 3: over the stumpy legs.
Speaker 2: Aw so cute. Ah.
Speaker 1: But yes, that is a great guess. We will find
Speaker 1: out next time on Creature Feature what this little mystery
Speaker 1: muling sound is. Uh. If you think you know you
Speaker 1: can write to me at Creature Featurepod at gmail dot com.
Speaker 1: You can also write to me with questions every so often.
Speaker 1: I have a whole episode dedicated to answering your questions,
Speaker 1: and I also respond to your questions via email. Jason,
Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining me. You got anything
Speaker 1: to promote Slash? Where can people find you?
Speaker 3: A new book is out on October thirty first, twenty
Speaker 3: twenty three. If you are listening to this in the future,
Speaker 3: it's already out. It is called Zoe Is Too Drunk
Speaker 3: for This dystopia part of the Zoe Ash series, available
Speaker 3: in every possible format. If you want to follow me
Speaker 3: on TikTok, I am Jason K. Pargin p r gi
Speaker 3: N on TikTok, but I'm also that on Twitter and
Speaker 3: threads and blue Sky and Instagram and YouTube and several others.
Speaker 1: Thank you guys so much for listening. If you're enjoying
Speaker 1: the show and you leave a rating or review, I
Speaker 1: am just so grateful because they help and I read
Speaker 1: all the reviews and I appreciate all that feedback is
Speaker 1: so good. It feeds me, it nourishes me. And thanks
Speaker 1: to the Space Classics for their super awesome song Exo Lumina.
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Speaker 1: See you next Wednesday,