1 00:00:07,160 --> 00:00:11,240 Speaker 1: Welcome to Creature feature production of iHeartRadio. I'm your host 2 00:00:11,280 --> 00:00:16,200 Speaker 1: of Many Parasites, Katie Golden. I studied psychology and evolutionary biology, 3 00:00:16,239 --> 00:00:21,200 Speaker 1: and today on the show, I a new tongue of toad, well, 4 00:00:21,720 --> 00:00:26,400 Speaker 1: more like excreation of toad. We're talking about the natural poisonous, 5 00:00:26,440 --> 00:00:31,960 Speaker 1: which is bruise of the animal kingdom, from trippy toads 6 00:00:32,000 --> 00:00:36,920 Speaker 1: to petrifying platypuses. We're talking about animals who snow white 7 00:00:37,080 --> 00:00:41,360 Speaker 1: might want to keep some distance from. Discover this and more. 8 00:00:41,520 --> 00:00:45,239 Speaker 1: As we answered the age old question, should we talk 9 00:00:45,280 --> 00:00:49,440 Speaker 1: about the birds, bees, and snakes given that snake bites 10 00:00:49,600 --> 00:00:53,760 Speaker 1: can reverse puberty. Joining me today is author of the 11 00:00:53,960 --> 00:00:56,480 Speaker 1: John Dyes at the End series and the new book 12 00:00:56,760 --> 00:00:59,240 Speaker 1: Zoe Is Too Drunk for This Dystopia. 13 00:00:59,600 --> 00:01:01,360 Speaker 2: Jason Pargin Welcome. 14 00:01:03,440 --> 00:01:06,440 Speaker 3: Very eager to talk about this because my understanding of 15 00:01:06,520 --> 00:01:09,840 Speaker 3: all of nature prior to today was that everything on 16 00:01:09,920 --> 00:01:14,440 Speaker 3: Earth exists for humans to eat, like that's why the 17 00:01:14,480 --> 00:01:18,160 Speaker 3: planet is here. It is a buffet. So finding out 18 00:01:18,200 --> 00:01:20,720 Speaker 3: that some of these things can really mess you up 19 00:01:20,840 --> 00:01:25,160 Speaker 3: in ways that seem like a witch's curse is very shocking. 20 00:01:26,040 --> 00:01:29,800 Speaker 1: I mean, look, you still can't eat it. Technically what 21 00:01:29,959 --> 00:01:33,200 Speaker 1: happens after is just you know, that's. 22 00:01:33,080 --> 00:01:33,479 Speaker 2: Up to you. 23 00:01:35,160 --> 00:01:37,880 Speaker 3: I just feel like it's irresponsible on the animal's part, 24 00:01:38,200 --> 00:01:41,080 Speaker 3: right because it's like, what's what's the point of that? 25 00:01:41,920 --> 00:01:45,759 Speaker 3: You are, you're walking food. You you surely realize this. 26 00:01:47,160 --> 00:01:50,200 Speaker 1: It's as if they don't want us to eat them, 27 00:01:50,480 --> 00:01:51,480 Speaker 1: which can't be true. 28 00:01:51,560 --> 00:01:53,840 Speaker 3: I don't understand, but we'll get into it because they 29 00:01:53,840 --> 00:01:56,360 Speaker 3: may have ulterior motives, but ultimately I think it's just 30 00:01:56,480 --> 00:01:58,040 Speaker 3: something it's a misunderstanding. 31 00:01:58,760 --> 00:02:02,360 Speaker 1: Well, Jason, I'm sure you've heard of psychedelic toads. In fact, 32 00:02:02,400 --> 00:02:05,200 Speaker 1: I'm one hundred percent sure, because you were the one 33 00:02:05,200 --> 00:02:07,280 Speaker 1: who was interested in talking about them today. 34 00:02:09,120 --> 00:02:11,360 Speaker 3: Yeah, I only know it as a pop culture phenomenon. 35 00:02:11,400 --> 00:02:13,520 Speaker 3: It's something that you constantly hear, you know, you see 36 00:02:13,520 --> 00:02:15,720 Speaker 3: it in movies or whatever, where they will lick a 37 00:02:15,760 --> 00:02:18,120 Speaker 3: toad in the desert. I think there's a Simpsons episode 38 00:02:18,120 --> 00:02:21,520 Speaker 3: where it happens. And I have always assumed that that 39 00:02:21,680 --> 00:02:25,200 Speaker 3: is not strictly true, that you could not just literally 40 00:02:25,240 --> 00:02:28,200 Speaker 3: pick it up, lick its back, and then suddenly start tripping. 41 00:02:28,200 --> 00:02:30,440 Speaker 3: I assumed it's one of those things that just pervaded 42 00:02:30,520 --> 00:02:35,360 Speaker 3: into pop culture. But it's more real than what I thought. 43 00:02:35,400 --> 00:02:39,200 Speaker 3: But I've never known why such a creature exists or 44 00:02:39,240 --> 00:02:41,760 Speaker 3: how we found out such a creature exists. 45 00:02:42,040 --> 00:02:46,919 Speaker 1: Yeah, so it is a mixture of truths and half truths, 46 00:02:47,000 --> 00:02:51,360 Speaker 1: but mostly it is as weird as pop culture would 47 00:02:51,360 --> 00:02:54,680 Speaker 1: make it sound. Of course, I'm going to start this 48 00:02:55,000 --> 00:02:59,519 Speaker 1: by saying, don't lick toads, even if you think you'll 49 00:02:59,560 --> 00:03:02,680 Speaker 1: get high. They're much more likely to make you sick. 50 00:03:03,800 --> 00:03:06,600 Speaker 1: And also it's mean to the toad. Did you get 51 00:03:06,639 --> 00:03:12,519 Speaker 1: that toad's consent? I don't think so. So that being said, 52 00:03:12,960 --> 00:03:17,000 Speaker 1: it is true that psychedelic toad toxin is a real thing, 53 00:03:18,440 --> 00:03:24,640 Speaker 1: and human beings do ingest it recreationally. Typically though it 54 00:03:24,680 --> 00:03:27,799 Speaker 1: is not through licking the toad, but it goes through 55 00:03:27,840 --> 00:03:34,240 Speaker 1: a whole process before being ingested. Usually it's smoked. I'm 56 00:03:34,240 --> 00:03:38,520 Speaker 1: not gonna go into detail about how it's made, partially 57 00:03:38,560 --> 00:03:41,400 Speaker 1: because I don't know, and partially because I don't want 58 00:03:41,400 --> 00:03:46,000 Speaker 1: the dea on my butt. But yes, I suffice it 59 00:03:46,040 --> 00:03:53,120 Speaker 1: to say that people can and do have psychedelic experiences 60 00:03:53,400 --> 00:04:00,200 Speaker 1: with toad toxin, and it's usually processed before they ingest it, 61 00:04:00,640 --> 00:04:03,480 Speaker 1: and it's not the best thing for the toad to do, 62 00:04:03,560 --> 00:04:06,800 Speaker 1: so it's not a victimless crime. 63 00:04:09,040 --> 00:04:12,200 Speaker 3: Generally, if you've been rolled up and smoked, you're probably 64 00:04:12,240 --> 00:04:15,559 Speaker 3: not still alive, regardless of what kind of a life 65 00:04:15,600 --> 00:04:16,200 Speaker 3: form you are. 66 00:04:17,720 --> 00:04:21,039 Speaker 1: I mean, it's I don't think they make just a 67 00:04:21,080 --> 00:04:24,960 Speaker 1: fat dube out of the toad. They generally will scrape 68 00:04:25,080 --> 00:04:28,920 Speaker 1: the toxin off the toad. It doesn't have to kill 69 00:04:29,000 --> 00:04:33,120 Speaker 1: the toad, but it's not a good situation, Like the 70 00:04:33,160 --> 00:04:38,680 Speaker 1: toad's basically getting milked getting scraped, and that is not 71 00:04:39,520 --> 00:04:42,560 Speaker 1: a great situation for the toad. In fact, there are 72 00:04:42,600 --> 00:04:47,280 Speaker 1: like poachers who try to get these toads. There's also 73 00:04:47,560 --> 00:04:51,120 Speaker 1: people who try to farm these toads, and farming is 74 00:04:51,160 --> 00:04:54,720 Speaker 1: actually quite bad for toads because there are a lot 75 00:04:54,720 --> 00:05:00,240 Speaker 1: of fungal infections that really threaten toad populations. And when 76 00:05:00,240 --> 00:05:02,000 Speaker 1: you have a bunch of toads kind of in a 77 00:05:02,080 --> 00:05:05,400 Speaker 1: concentrated area on some kind of toad farm, you greatly 78 00:05:05,440 --> 00:05:09,480 Speaker 1: increase the chance of these fungal infection spreading and then 79 00:05:09,520 --> 00:05:12,839 Speaker 1: it could potentially spread a wild population. So it's not 80 00:05:12,960 --> 00:05:18,240 Speaker 1: exactly a sustainable drug toad psychedelic toxin, but that doesn't 81 00:05:18,279 --> 00:05:20,400 Speaker 1: stop people from necessarily. 82 00:05:20,040 --> 00:05:20,840 Speaker 2: Trying to do it. 83 00:05:23,480 --> 00:05:25,279 Speaker 3: By the way, there could be a whole separate episode 84 00:05:25,279 --> 00:05:27,320 Speaker 3: in the fact that we humans tend to assume that 85 00:05:27,360 --> 00:05:31,000 Speaker 3: basically anything can be farmed. Yeah, a big controversy over 86 00:05:31,040 --> 00:05:33,800 Speaker 3: octopus farming because it's a delicacy and they're like, well, 87 00:05:33,880 --> 00:05:37,640 Speaker 3: let's just farm them, as like, these are intelligent creatures. 88 00:05:37,880 --> 00:05:41,400 Speaker 3: Not everything has been domesticated over tens of thousands of 89 00:05:41,520 --> 00:05:45,200 Speaker 3: years to be suitable to be herded and bred or 90 00:05:45,240 --> 00:05:48,960 Speaker 3: whatever en mass. So yeah, it's not just these tots. 91 00:05:48,960 --> 00:05:50,880 Speaker 3: There's lots of creatures that don't do well because that 92 00:05:51,000 --> 00:05:53,600 Speaker 3: is very unnatural in terms of environment for them. 93 00:05:53,920 --> 00:05:58,159 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean exactly right, Like there, you can't just 94 00:05:58,360 --> 00:06:02,360 Speaker 1: farm an exotic gam animal and expect that to turn 95 00:06:02,400 --> 00:06:06,320 Speaker 1: out well for either the animal or for you. The 96 00:06:06,440 --> 00:06:09,560 Speaker 1: farm animals that we have right now, I mean, of 97 00:06:09,600 --> 00:06:13,240 Speaker 1: course farming is not always great even for them, but 98 00:06:14,240 --> 00:06:20,560 Speaker 1: they have been selected over many thousands of years for domestications, 99 00:06:20,600 --> 00:06:24,120 Speaker 1: so yeah, that's quite a bit of a different situation. 100 00:06:24,400 --> 00:06:27,600 Speaker 1: You can't just saddle up a toad and expect it 101 00:06:27,680 --> 00:06:31,240 Speaker 1: to be like a cow or something where you can 102 00:06:31,720 --> 00:06:36,840 Speaker 1: go and milk the toads every morning. But toads do 103 00:06:37,040 --> 00:06:42,239 Speaker 1: produce a toxin, and it's not created to make us 104 00:06:42,480 --> 00:06:47,919 Speaker 1: get high. It is actually there to protect them from predators. 105 00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:51,040 Speaker 1: So there are lots of toads and frog species as 106 00:06:51,040 --> 00:06:57,920 Speaker 1: well that produce toxins, and that toxin is truly intended 107 00:06:58,160 --> 00:07:03,040 Speaker 1: to ward off predators. So the toad will ooze toxin 108 00:07:03,160 --> 00:07:07,800 Speaker 1: when it feels threatened, usually from a few glands on 109 00:07:07,880 --> 00:07:12,400 Speaker 1: its body, and predators will either get sick or disgusted 110 00:07:12,680 --> 00:07:15,680 Speaker 1: and will either stop trying to eat the toad and 111 00:07:15,800 --> 00:07:21,280 Speaker 1: release it, or become sick after eating the toad, learning 112 00:07:21,440 --> 00:07:26,440 Speaker 1: a very painful lesson and in some cases, potentially lethal 113 00:07:26,760 --> 00:07:31,440 Speaker 1: lesson that this toad is not good to eat. 114 00:07:31,960 --> 00:07:35,400 Speaker 3: I find this absolutely fascinating because it is something I 115 00:07:35,440 --> 00:07:38,760 Speaker 3: had literally never thought of before, that you have a 116 00:07:38,840 --> 00:07:44,920 Speaker 3: defense that doesn't necessarily save that individual toad, because, as 117 00:07:44,920 --> 00:07:47,440 Speaker 3: you can imagine, you've seen predators eat a lot of them, 118 00:07:47,520 --> 00:07:50,280 Speaker 3: do not gingerly test the food before they A lot 119 00:07:50,320 --> 00:07:52,800 Speaker 3: of them just snap it up and swallow it, and 120 00:07:52,880 --> 00:07:55,600 Speaker 3: so it would be them getting sick and then learning 121 00:07:55,760 --> 00:07:59,720 Speaker 3: not to eat other similar toads. In other words, the 122 00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:04,360 Speaker 3: fence is not necessarily to save that toad. It's a 123 00:08:04,480 --> 00:08:08,720 Speaker 3: collective defense, like, hey, don't I have sacrificed myself to 124 00:08:08,840 --> 00:08:12,320 Speaker 3: teach you not to eat the other toads like me, which, 125 00:08:12,320 --> 00:08:15,160 Speaker 3: of course the toad does not have that thought or 126 00:08:15,200 --> 00:08:19,760 Speaker 3: any thought. But the way that a defense evolved in 127 00:08:19,920 --> 00:08:22,680 Speaker 3: that manner, I think is really interesting. I think it's 128 00:08:22,720 --> 00:08:26,360 Speaker 3: kind of inspirational because it's like, well, sometimes in your 129 00:08:26,400 --> 00:08:30,360 Speaker 3: own life you may run into a disaster, but this 130 00:08:30,440 --> 00:08:34,280 Speaker 3: is the world using you as an example to teach other. 131 00:08:34,120 --> 00:08:40,080 Speaker 1: People, right, I mean it is so there are animals, 132 00:08:40,120 --> 00:08:44,199 Speaker 1: including these toads. The toads can sometimes survive this, and 133 00:08:44,640 --> 00:08:47,920 Speaker 1: in fact, sometimes like the predator will just get a 134 00:08:47,920 --> 00:08:49,800 Speaker 1: whiff of this tox and like kind of get it 135 00:08:49,840 --> 00:08:53,280 Speaker 1: on their nose or on their mouth and lips and 136 00:08:53,400 --> 00:08:58,520 Speaker 1: realize something's off. Some toads are able to spray it 137 00:08:58,559 --> 00:09:01,640 Speaker 1: a little bit so that it's definitely a warning to 138 00:09:01,679 --> 00:09:06,080 Speaker 1: the predator to back off. But there are animals certainly 139 00:09:06,200 --> 00:09:09,040 Speaker 1: where it is rare for them, despite their talks and 140 00:09:09,120 --> 00:09:14,720 Speaker 1: to survive a predator encounter, including butterflies. So butterflies, there 141 00:09:14,720 --> 00:09:18,400 Speaker 1: are a lot of butterfly species, like monarchs, who are toxic. 142 00:09:18,520 --> 00:09:23,520 Speaker 1: They are not good to eat, and they do not 143 00:09:23,640 --> 00:09:27,000 Speaker 1: necessarily survive if a bird tries it, Like they're very 144 00:09:27,080 --> 00:09:30,200 Speaker 1: delicate creatures. The bird, if it even does spit it out, 145 00:09:30,480 --> 00:09:34,280 Speaker 1: that butterfly is probably not gonna make it. However, you 146 00:09:34,400 --> 00:09:40,560 Speaker 1: still see this protective effect of butterflies, like butterflies like monarchs, 147 00:09:41,559 --> 00:09:47,520 Speaker 1: having this warning coloration called apisimitism, which deters predators like 148 00:09:47,559 --> 00:09:50,880 Speaker 1: birds from eating them, despite the fact it doesn't necessarily 149 00:09:51,600 --> 00:09:55,240 Speaker 1: prevent that first individual that gets eaten by a bird. 150 00:09:55,360 --> 00:09:58,600 Speaker 1: So it's not an altruistic thing, right, Like, it's not 151 00:09:58,800 --> 00:10:03,920 Speaker 1: somehow these butterfli having a collective consciousness of we are 152 00:10:03,960 --> 00:10:10,040 Speaker 1: going to save future butterflies. So because like you can imagine, 153 00:10:10,080 --> 00:10:12,679 Speaker 1: like say you have a butterfly who develops this trait 154 00:10:13,360 --> 00:10:17,720 Speaker 1: and it doesn't help itself at all, it gets eaten. 155 00:10:17,920 --> 00:10:18,920 Speaker 2: Well, those genes. 156 00:10:18,679 --> 00:10:21,680 Speaker 1: Don't get passed on, So how does this ball even 157 00:10:21,720 --> 00:10:24,200 Speaker 1: get rolling in the first place. You need like a 158 00:10:24,320 --> 00:10:29,040 Speaker 1: critical mass of the butterfly population who have this mutation 159 00:10:29,360 --> 00:10:33,880 Speaker 1: or development that actually survive. And so one of the 160 00:10:33,880 --> 00:10:39,280 Speaker 1: theories is that the same adaptation of the bright colors 161 00:10:39,360 --> 00:10:43,840 Speaker 1: and the toxicity also helps it survive in other ways. 162 00:10:43,920 --> 00:10:45,720 Speaker 2: So the bright coloration, the. 163 00:10:46,480 --> 00:10:52,240 Speaker 1: Toxicity may make them more viable to be able to 164 00:10:52,280 --> 00:10:56,680 Speaker 1: produce offspring, even beyond just being preyed upon. So, for instance, 165 00:10:56,840 --> 00:11:01,200 Speaker 1: that bright coloration makes it more noticeable to the opposite 166 00:11:01,240 --> 00:11:04,960 Speaker 1: sex and allows it more mating opportunities, and maybe the 167 00:11:05,000 --> 00:11:10,480 Speaker 1: toxin helps protect it from parasites, and so those things 168 00:11:10,800 --> 00:11:14,200 Speaker 1: already make it more likely to pass on its genes. 169 00:11:14,240 --> 00:11:18,240 Speaker 1: And then you get this added benefit of predators learning, hey, 170 00:11:18,320 --> 00:11:21,840 Speaker 1: these really bright butterflies are nasty and they give me 171 00:11:21,880 --> 00:11:24,600 Speaker 1: a tummy ache. So you have this kind of two 172 00:11:24,679 --> 00:11:28,680 Speaker 1: pronged thing where it enough of them evolve this characteristic, 173 00:11:28,760 --> 00:11:31,880 Speaker 1: perhaps for unrelated reasons, but then it also has this 174 00:11:32,200 --> 00:11:37,959 Speaker 1: population protective effect of these predators learning the really bright 175 00:11:38,200 --> 00:11:42,040 Speaker 1: monarchy butterflies are discussed and they make me puke. So 176 00:11:43,080 --> 00:11:47,720 Speaker 1: it is really interesting. In fact, there are butterfly species 177 00:11:47,760 --> 00:11:53,439 Speaker 1: who are not toxic who have adapted to take advantage 178 00:11:54,000 --> 00:11:58,280 Speaker 1: of this apisomatic protection that the toxic species have. So 179 00:11:58,320 --> 00:12:02,000 Speaker 1: you'll have a mimic it was not toxic, could be eaten, 180 00:12:02,200 --> 00:12:07,880 Speaker 1: you know, delicious butterfly, and then it copies the look 181 00:12:08,080 --> 00:12:12,280 Speaker 1: of a toxic butterflies. This is called Baitsian mimicry. Uh 182 00:12:12,600 --> 00:12:17,200 Speaker 1: So then the tasty butterfly benefits from that protection because 183 00:12:17,240 --> 00:12:19,080 Speaker 1: a bird looks at it and says, this looks like 184 00:12:19,120 --> 00:12:21,160 Speaker 1: one of the yucky butterflies. I'm not going to eat it. 185 00:12:21,600 --> 00:12:26,319 Speaker 1: The really interesting thing is if these mimics are too numerous, 186 00:12:26,440 --> 00:12:32,079 Speaker 1: it actually dilutes the effect efficacy of the protective coloration 187 00:12:32,840 --> 00:12:36,520 Speaker 1: because then birds learn like, actually, when I eat these 188 00:12:36,520 --> 00:12:40,840 Speaker 1: are really bright butterflies. Uh, they they're fine. I'm okay. 189 00:12:40,880 --> 00:12:44,640 Speaker 1: It's like, you know, you have enough of the false 190 00:12:44,679 --> 00:12:48,040 Speaker 1: signal to bury the real signal. So you have these 191 00:12:48,080 --> 00:12:51,640 Speaker 1: population dynamics where the mimics have to be in low 192 00:12:51,720 --> 00:12:56,120 Speaker 1: enough numbers in order for the bait the for the 193 00:12:56,240 --> 00:12:59,040 Speaker 1: apisomatic coloration to actually benefit them. So you see this 194 00:12:59,240 --> 00:13:04,320 Speaker 1: like these poppy dynamics where the if the mimic population 195 00:13:04,400 --> 00:13:07,240 Speaker 1: gets too many, you have this like crash in the 196 00:13:07,280 --> 00:13:10,160 Speaker 1: population and then a rise in the population of. 197 00:13:10,200 --> 00:13:11,839 Speaker 2: The toxic butterflies. 198 00:13:11,840 --> 00:13:15,679 Speaker 1: It's really it's very interesting mathematically, which we won't talk 199 00:13:15,679 --> 00:13:21,640 Speaker 1: about the math because I cannot no, but I love. 200 00:13:21,480 --> 00:13:25,640 Speaker 3: This because it's such a great demonstration of how this 201 00:13:25,760 --> 00:13:29,600 Speaker 3: is all a machine. So, for example, if you have 202 00:13:29,760 --> 00:13:32,880 Speaker 3: coloration that is supposed to signal to predators or I 203 00:13:32,960 --> 00:13:35,959 Speaker 3: keep using terminology like it's designed you are supposed to 204 00:13:35,960 --> 00:13:38,360 Speaker 3: you as if the butterflies play in this. I of 205 00:13:38,400 --> 00:13:40,120 Speaker 3: course know that's not how this works. 206 00:13:40,280 --> 00:13:42,880 Speaker 1: It's just so hard to get away from that language 207 00:13:42,960 --> 00:13:46,480 Speaker 1: because this is how human beings work. So like we 208 00:13:46,559 --> 00:13:49,880 Speaker 1: have intention, we have we design things, and so we 209 00:13:50,000 --> 00:13:52,360 Speaker 1: use that kind of language when we're talking about things 210 00:13:53,080 --> 00:13:56,080 Speaker 1: that don't have that. But it's really hard, even if 211 00:13:56,120 --> 00:13:58,160 Speaker 1: we understand that's not the case, it's hard to not 212 00:13:58,360 --> 00:14:00,040 Speaker 1: use that language. 213 00:14:00,120 --> 00:14:02,920 Speaker 3: You and I are primates and tool users, so we 214 00:14:02,960 --> 00:14:05,840 Speaker 3: want to see things through the lens of This is 215 00:14:05,880 --> 00:14:08,360 Speaker 3: a tool they designed, because that's how we always see 216 00:14:08,360 --> 00:14:12,280 Speaker 3: the world. That's our evolution. But for example, if you 217 00:14:12,400 --> 00:14:17,040 Speaker 3: have a specific predator, say a bird, your coloration only 218 00:14:17,120 --> 00:14:20,840 Speaker 3: works in a range of colors that that's bird's eyes 219 00:14:21,160 --> 00:14:24,280 Speaker 3: can see. It does you no good if that so 220 00:14:24,520 --> 00:14:28,800 Speaker 3: your color is somewhat is partly dictated by the design 221 00:14:29,040 --> 00:14:32,240 Speaker 3: of the eyes of the birds that are eating you. 222 00:14:33,560 --> 00:14:37,720 Speaker 3: And whether or not this mimicry works gets back to 223 00:14:38,040 --> 00:14:42,640 Speaker 3: the whatever the rudimentary psychology or decision making of the bird. 224 00:14:42,720 --> 00:14:44,920 Speaker 3: I know birds do not have psychology, but they do 225 00:14:45,000 --> 00:14:48,320 Speaker 3: have a decision making process in terms of in terms 226 00:14:48,400 --> 00:14:51,080 Speaker 3: of the risk reward, Like am I going to risk 227 00:14:51,160 --> 00:14:53,240 Speaker 3: if I know the only one out of fifty of 228 00:14:53,280 --> 00:14:56,960 Speaker 3: these is poisonous and it's like no, fine, I'll happily 229 00:14:57,040 --> 00:15:00,240 Speaker 3: risk that. But every animal has different concept of risk. 230 00:15:00,400 --> 00:15:03,160 Speaker 3: That is something else that evolves. You know that the 231 00:15:03,280 --> 00:15:08,480 Speaker 3: scarcity of food changes that equation. So the the way, 232 00:15:08,600 --> 00:15:11,360 Speaker 3: the decision making, the eyes, the sense organs of your 233 00:15:11,560 --> 00:15:16,800 Speaker 3: enemies dictate what you will look like and how you act. 234 00:15:17,640 --> 00:15:22,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, I mean these these relationships between animals can 235 00:15:22,320 --> 00:15:26,720 Speaker 1: be very close, regardless of whether it is you know, 236 00:15:27,040 --> 00:15:31,360 Speaker 1: symbiotic in sort of a mutualism where it's mutually beneficial 237 00:15:31,520 --> 00:15:36,080 Speaker 1: or symbiotic and predator prayer relationships. You know, you can 238 00:15:36,160 --> 00:15:39,960 Speaker 1: have a very close relationship with between two animals where 239 00:15:40,040 --> 00:15:43,600 Speaker 1: they are constantly trying to either evade or kill each other, 240 00:15:43,720 --> 00:15:46,600 Speaker 1: but they still have this very intimate connection because they 241 00:15:46,600 --> 00:15:50,400 Speaker 1: are shaping each other's evolution and in fact they can 242 00:15:50,680 --> 00:15:53,160 Speaker 1: have in it. Like if you know, people think, well, 243 00:15:53,160 --> 00:15:55,720 Speaker 1: if you remove a predator, that's really good for the 244 00:15:55,760 --> 00:15:58,080 Speaker 1: prey population because they never have they don't have to 245 00:15:58,200 --> 00:16:01,600 Speaker 1: contend with that predator. Well, in fact, sometimes if you 246 00:16:01,680 --> 00:16:05,760 Speaker 1: remove a predator, the prey population is in danger because 247 00:16:05,800 --> 00:16:09,360 Speaker 1: they become too numerous, they compete for more resources, they 248 00:16:09,440 --> 00:16:14,320 Speaker 1: spread disease. So yeah, these relationships relationships are very fascinating, 249 00:16:14,320 --> 00:16:18,160 Speaker 1: and you really there is no animal is an island. 250 00:16:18,560 --> 00:16:22,280 Speaker 1: Everyone is sort of you know, pushing and squeezing on 251 00:16:22,320 --> 00:16:25,240 Speaker 1: the other through evolutionary history and shaping what the other 252 00:16:25,280 --> 00:16:28,480 Speaker 1: animal looks like, what it does, everything about it, I mean, 253 00:16:28,520 --> 00:16:32,120 Speaker 1: ourselves included. Now that we've talked a little bit about 254 00:16:32,240 --> 00:16:36,760 Speaker 1: the background behind why animals have these toxins, let's talk 255 00:16:36,760 --> 00:16:40,760 Speaker 1: about one of the most famous psychedelic toads, the Sonoran 256 00:16:40,840 --> 00:16:46,040 Speaker 1: desert toad. It is found in southwestern United States and 257 00:16:46,520 --> 00:16:51,400 Speaker 1: northwestern Mexico. It is a brownish green warty toad that 258 00:16:51,520 --> 00:16:55,359 Speaker 1: lives in areas that go through wet and dry seasons, 259 00:16:55,760 --> 00:16:58,720 Speaker 1: and actually during the dry season, the toad lives in 260 00:16:58,800 --> 00:17:03,320 Speaker 1: burrows underground and it comes up during what summer seasons. 261 00:17:03,760 --> 00:17:07,840 Speaker 1: They emerge and they congregate in rivers, streams, ponds, or 262 00:17:08,200 --> 00:17:13,200 Speaker 1: swimming pools because human neighborhoods are often within the fro 263 00:17:13,560 --> 00:17:18,479 Speaker 1: within the toad's range, and this is the call it 264 00:17:18,600 --> 00:17:26,840 Speaker 1: makes when it's trying to find a mate. That's a 265 00:17:26,880 --> 00:17:30,679 Speaker 1: pretty sound. I like it, little little humming sound. So 266 00:17:30,720 --> 00:17:36,520 Speaker 1: they seem really innocuous, and yet they excrete a potent 267 00:17:36,600 --> 00:17:41,400 Speaker 1: toxin from glands behind their eyes and on their legs. 268 00:17:41,600 --> 00:17:45,400 Speaker 1: So this toxin can be deadly or at the very 269 00:17:45,520 --> 00:17:50,720 Speaker 1: least make predators very sick. And you know, hopefully the 270 00:17:50,760 --> 00:17:55,440 Speaker 1: predator will release the toad after getting a mouthful of 271 00:17:55,480 --> 00:17:58,520 Speaker 1: this toxin, but you know, if they go through with 272 00:17:58,680 --> 00:18:01,120 Speaker 1: consuming it, they can either get really. 273 00:18:00,920 --> 00:18:02,400 Speaker 2: Sick or even die. 274 00:18:03,000 --> 00:18:07,560 Speaker 1: And this is actually a problem for domesticated dogs who 275 00:18:07,680 --> 00:18:11,200 Speaker 1: can be very curious about the toad. But in terms 276 00:18:11,320 --> 00:18:16,960 Speaker 1: of human interactions with this toad, the toxin also contains DMT, 277 00:18:17,520 --> 00:18:20,760 Speaker 1: which might sound familiar to some of you. It is 278 00:18:20,920 --> 00:18:27,159 Speaker 1: a psychoactive compound and when smoked, this compound can cause 279 00:18:27,320 --> 00:18:33,159 Speaker 1: a psychedelic trip with hallucinations, sometimes feelings of euphoria. You know, 280 00:18:33,320 --> 00:18:38,000 Speaker 1: sometimes it can go very wrong. Like psychedelic trips can 281 00:18:38,119 --> 00:18:42,040 Speaker 1: either be pleasant or be horrifying. It's I think somewhat 282 00:18:42,040 --> 00:18:44,920 Speaker 1: dependent on your frame of mind at the time, your 283 00:18:44,960 --> 00:18:49,720 Speaker 1: own individual physiology. But yeah, so the compound in this 284 00:18:50,080 --> 00:18:56,920 Speaker 1: toad toxin binds to serotonin receptors and other neurotransmitter receptors, 285 00:18:57,359 --> 00:19:03,440 Speaker 1: which alters the concentration of neurotransmitters and neural activation. So 286 00:19:03,480 --> 00:19:09,639 Speaker 1: it very directly interferes with the firing of your neurons 287 00:19:09,800 --> 00:19:14,840 Speaker 1: and the abundance of neurotransmitters in your brain. And so 288 00:19:15,480 --> 00:19:20,360 Speaker 1: it is a really interesting thing that you know, this toxin, 289 00:19:20,640 --> 00:19:24,560 Speaker 1: which is not created so that we can get high, 290 00:19:24,640 --> 00:19:28,760 Speaker 1: it's for a totally different reason, can directly bounce around 291 00:19:28,800 --> 00:19:32,120 Speaker 1: in our brains make us go into a completely altered 292 00:19:32,119 --> 00:19:35,000 Speaker 1: state of mind where people see things, that they feel 293 00:19:35,040 --> 00:19:37,760 Speaker 1: things very differently how they normally would. 294 00:19:39,080 --> 00:19:40,200 Speaker 2: It is truly. 295 00:19:39,920 --> 00:19:44,640 Speaker 3: Bizarre, and is other things in nature that caused us effect, 296 00:19:44,680 --> 00:19:47,200 Speaker 3: like of course mushrooms, and I think there's various types 297 00:19:47,240 --> 00:19:49,520 Speaker 3: of even there's like a lichen or a fungus to 298 00:19:49,600 --> 00:19:51,560 Speaker 3: something else that if you lick it off a rock 299 00:19:51,640 --> 00:19:53,720 Speaker 3: you can get you high. Is it all the same thing? 300 00:19:53,720 --> 00:19:57,520 Speaker 3: Are these all defenses against because other creatures would find 301 00:19:57,520 --> 00:20:01,440 Speaker 3: that fatal rather than t off that as a generally? 302 00:20:01,880 --> 00:20:03,560 Speaker 3: Have they all evolved for that same reason? 303 00:20:04,320 --> 00:20:06,840 Speaker 1: I don't know if every single one of them has, 304 00:20:06,920 --> 00:20:09,640 Speaker 1: but all of the ones that I know of are 305 00:20:10,119 --> 00:20:16,280 Speaker 1: defensive toxins that have that are there for, uh, trying 306 00:20:16,320 --> 00:20:21,280 Speaker 1: to deter predators that might eat them, certainly on toads. 307 00:20:21,400 --> 00:20:23,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that is the case. 308 00:20:23,600 --> 00:20:27,600 Speaker 1: Uh, And I mean it's kind of funny because even 309 00:20:27,640 --> 00:20:31,840 Speaker 1: though those are meant to be defensive toxins to prevent 310 00:20:31,920 --> 00:20:36,520 Speaker 1: predators from eating them, occasionally animals will actually catch on 311 00:20:36,600 --> 00:20:39,320 Speaker 1: to the fact that this can get them high and 312 00:20:39,680 --> 00:20:45,760 Speaker 1: they will try to lick the toxin off of the toad. 313 00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:50,719 Speaker 1: So this is I don't know all of the animals 314 00:20:50,760 --> 00:20:56,600 Speaker 1: who do this, but dogs, domesticated dogs and horses have 315 00:20:56,760 --> 00:21:02,400 Speaker 1: been observed licking these toads, and it's not a great thing. 316 00:21:02,520 --> 00:21:08,040 Speaker 1: Like Australian dogs, Domesticated dogs in Australia often lick cane 317 00:21:08,119 --> 00:21:12,840 Speaker 1: toads and while it isn't necessarily deadly if they just 318 00:21:12,960 --> 00:21:16,680 Speaker 1: do a few licks, if they overindulge in the cane toad, 319 00:21:16,720 --> 00:21:18,439 Speaker 1: they can get really sick and have to go to 320 00:21:18,480 --> 00:21:23,680 Speaker 1: the vet. And in South America, horses have been known 321 00:21:23,760 --> 00:21:29,000 Speaker 1: to lick the waxy tree frog, which is another psychedelic 322 00:21:30,200 --> 00:21:36,679 Speaker 1: species of frog. And it yeah, they they seemingly just 323 00:21:36,760 --> 00:21:40,120 Speaker 1: do it because they've learned it gets them high and 324 00:21:40,560 --> 00:21:42,520 Speaker 1: they likes to do it. 325 00:21:44,119 --> 00:21:50,040 Speaker 3: I find that equally fascinating because I would assume, like 326 00:21:50,119 --> 00:21:54,040 Speaker 3: to what degree a horse can hallucinate, Like, I assume 327 00:21:54,080 --> 00:21:56,760 Speaker 3: this is something that we simply that we simply don't 328 00:21:56,840 --> 00:22:00,480 Speaker 3: know the details of, Like we can observe their behavior, 329 00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:02,080 Speaker 3: we can observe that they seem to go into a 330 00:22:02,080 --> 00:22:04,440 Speaker 3: state or don't seem aware of what they are or whatever. 331 00:22:04,480 --> 00:22:07,200 Speaker 3: But I would assume from the animal's point of view, 332 00:22:08,280 --> 00:22:12,520 Speaker 3: it's just a feeling of care free pleasure or whatever, 333 00:22:12,600 --> 00:22:14,520 Speaker 3: because from an evolutionary point of view, you would think 334 00:22:14,560 --> 00:22:17,480 Speaker 3: this would be extremely risky to put yourself in a 335 00:22:17,520 --> 00:22:20,359 Speaker 3: situation where you're now not aware of your surroundings or 336 00:22:20,440 --> 00:22:22,280 Speaker 3: are seeing things that are not there, Like, even if 337 00:22:22,320 --> 00:22:26,560 Speaker 3: it's fun, it seems like, especially as nervous as horses are, 338 00:22:26,600 --> 00:22:30,040 Speaker 3: being prey animals, it's very easy for them to harm themselves. 339 00:22:30,080 --> 00:22:34,439 Speaker 3: Like if I can imagine one hallucinating, you know, a 340 00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:36,160 Speaker 3: wolf for a bird of prey or something else that's 341 00:22:36,160 --> 00:22:39,920 Speaker 3: frightened up and then running itself to death or whatever. 342 00:22:41,119 --> 00:22:44,640 Speaker 3: I find that fascinating that they do it anyway, because 343 00:22:44,680 --> 00:22:46,399 Speaker 3: again we know that people do it, but when people 344 00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:49,520 Speaker 3: do it, you always describe some very human reason that 345 00:22:49,520 --> 00:22:52,040 Speaker 3: we're trying to fight off our anxiety or we're trying 346 00:22:52,040 --> 00:22:56,199 Speaker 3: to find some deeper meaning in the universe. But a 347 00:22:56,240 --> 00:22:59,119 Speaker 3: dog is not doing that. A dog is just it 348 00:22:59,240 --> 00:23:00,560 Speaker 3: just feels feels good. 349 00:23:00,560 --> 00:23:01,960 Speaker 2: I guess yeah. 350 00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:06,200 Speaker 1: I mean, I do think any animal that can perceive 351 00:23:06,760 --> 00:23:11,280 Speaker 1: the world in some way can hallucinate, because hallucination is 352 00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:16,640 Speaker 1: just the activation of your perceptive areas of the brain, 353 00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:20,880 Speaker 1: your sensory areas of the brain, without there actually being 354 00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:24,720 Speaker 1: an external stimuli. So any animal, I think with that, 355 00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:28,320 Speaker 1: with the ability to perceive, has the ability to hallucinate. 356 00:23:29,040 --> 00:23:32,280 Speaker 1: We of course wouldn't necessarily know what those hallucinations would 357 00:23:32,280 --> 00:23:37,120 Speaker 1: be like. But I do think that the dogs and 358 00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:40,040 Speaker 1: the horses who are doing this are doing it for 359 00:23:40,359 --> 00:23:46,959 Speaker 1: the euphoria. And animals are not perfect machines, right, like, 360 00:23:48,080 --> 00:23:53,920 Speaker 1: including humans, we can't know, Like, even though evolution favors 361 00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:56,200 Speaker 1: us to do things that are in our own best 362 00:23:56,240 --> 00:23:58,639 Speaker 1: interest in terms of survival, that doesn't mean we're going 363 00:23:58,720 --> 00:24:03,240 Speaker 1: to do it when they're The reward system that keeps 364 00:24:03,320 --> 00:24:06,680 Speaker 1: us alive also is activated by things that hurt us, 365 00:24:06,760 --> 00:24:12,040 Speaker 1: so they they like, you know, the this is the 366 00:24:12,160 --> 00:24:16,280 Speaker 1: serotonin system that is you know, part of the the 367 00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:20,720 Speaker 1: impact of the toxin has on serotonin receptors, which is 368 00:24:20,840 --> 00:24:23,639 Speaker 1: one of the sort of reward systems of the brain. 369 00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:27,400 Speaker 1: And so getting that getting that high, getting that reward 370 00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:31,040 Speaker 1: is so appealing. I mean, you see that with with 371 00:24:31,320 --> 00:24:34,000 Speaker 1: human habits, right, Like, we do things all the time 372 00:24:34,160 --> 00:24:37,280 Speaker 1: that are bad for us, but we have such a 373 00:24:37,320 --> 00:24:41,240 Speaker 1: powerful reward system in the brain. You know, evolution cannot 374 00:24:41,320 --> 00:24:45,879 Speaker 1: predict all of these sort of you know, loopholes in 375 00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:49,880 Speaker 1: terms of things that like, hey, I feel good when 376 00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:52,560 Speaker 1: I eat an apple when I'm hungry, and that's good 377 00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:55,320 Speaker 1: because that keeps me from keeling over and dying of hunger. 378 00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:56,320 Speaker 3: Uh. 379 00:24:56,359 --> 00:24:59,639 Speaker 1: And there's no way, as we're evolving for evolution to 380 00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:03,520 Speaker 1: some how have kind of a omniscient understanding that like, well, 381 00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:06,199 Speaker 1: I better make sure that the same system I do 382 00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:09,800 Speaker 1: when they eat the apple also doesn't activate when they 383 00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:14,080 Speaker 1: like drink too much wine or eat a bunch of sugar, 384 00:25:14,200 --> 00:25:16,960 Speaker 1: because those things aren't good for them. You know. It's 385 00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:21,160 Speaker 1: if those reward systems are still activated, we're gonna do it, 386 00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:26,520 Speaker 1: perhaps absent some sort of wisdom that this is harming 387 00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:31,200 Speaker 1: us because it feels good and our brain is completely 388 00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:35,600 Speaker 1: primed to give into those reward systems, because generally those 389 00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:39,600 Speaker 1: things have kept us alive for thousands, hundreds of thousands 390 00:25:39,640 --> 00:25:40,119 Speaker 1: of years. 391 00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:45,360 Speaker 3: You get these paradoxes where things like hot peppers, you know, 392 00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:50,440 Speaker 3: those are that is a mechanism to deter certain animals 393 00:25:50,440 --> 00:25:54,600 Speaker 3: from eating, to deter the wrong animals from eating the 394 00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:57,600 Speaker 3: fruit of these of these plants. Right, they have the 395 00:25:57,680 --> 00:26:01,040 Speaker 3: capsaisent or water the chemical is that will burn their 396 00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:05,800 Speaker 3: tongue or whatever. And then here we people breed these 397 00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:08,600 Speaker 3: things and make them into sauces because we have decided 398 00:26:08,600 --> 00:26:12,080 Speaker 3: that the whatever it is, the adrenaline rush of the 399 00:26:12,119 --> 00:26:15,840 Speaker 3: mild pain on the tongue enhances flavor or the experience 400 00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:19,080 Speaker 3: somehow like the pain that this thing is trying to generate. 401 00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:22,680 Speaker 3: It's like, yes, we have evolved to enjoy that, if 402 00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:27,000 Speaker 3: in a specific amount. But if you could, if you 403 00:26:27,040 --> 00:26:30,520 Speaker 3: could somehow make a chili pepper scentient and then make 404 00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:33,320 Speaker 3: it watch that YouTube show where the people eat the 405 00:26:33,359 --> 00:26:37,080 Speaker 3: wings with the increasingly hot sauces on them. The pepper 406 00:26:37,119 --> 00:26:39,320 Speaker 3: would probably be very surprised. 407 00:26:39,760 --> 00:26:42,399 Speaker 1: I mean, the pepper would think we're all perverts because 408 00:26:42,440 --> 00:26:48,720 Speaker 1: we're all masochistically subjecting ourselves to this pain. I mean 409 00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:52,200 Speaker 1: it is weird, wrong, it is very interesting. I mean, 410 00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:56,400 Speaker 1: there are other benefits to spicy food. It makes you sweat, 411 00:26:56,440 --> 00:27:00,639 Speaker 1: which can help you cool off in uh in hot 412 00:27:00,760 --> 00:27:07,119 Speaker 1: or humid environments. And it also has some ability to 413 00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:11,240 Speaker 1: mask the taste of food that's gone off a bit 414 00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:13,720 Speaker 1: but you can still eat it, or food that's maybe 415 00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:17,840 Speaker 1: not you know, great tasting, but then the spiciness makes 416 00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:21,560 Speaker 1: it taste okay because you're so focused on the spiciness, 417 00:27:22,119 --> 00:27:24,320 Speaker 1: and it's you know, people do you know. 418 00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:25,600 Speaker 2: I mean, I'm one of them. 419 00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:31,040 Speaker 1: I enjoy spice, not extreme spiciness. I can't eat when 420 00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:33,280 Speaker 1: my eyes are full of tears and there's not running 421 00:27:33,320 --> 00:27:36,399 Speaker 1: down my face. But I like a good amount of spice. 422 00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:38,359 Speaker 1: And it takes a little while to ramp up to 423 00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:42,520 Speaker 1: getting some spice. But it's it's like a weirdly Yeah, 424 00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:46,720 Speaker 1: it's like you associate it with You start to associate 425 00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:49,720 Speaker 1: it with this good flavored food and the spice somehow 426 00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:52,879 Speaker 1: enhances the flavor of the food or enhances the experience 427 00:27:52,920 --> 00:27:56,760 Speaker 1: of the food. It's really interesting. So, yeah, we will 428 00:27:57,600 --> 00:28:03,840 Speaker 1: subject ourselves even to pain because our reward system is 429 00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:08,359 Speaker 1: very complex and will activate even when we're doing things 430 00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:11,480 Speaker 1: that doesn't seem like it's in our best interest. Although 431 00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:14,840 Speaker 1: spicy food, as long as you don't over indulge, won't 432 00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:19,159 Speaker 1: hurt you. If you do overindulge, you'll punish yourself and 433 00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:19,840 Speaker 1: your bathroom. 434 00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:24,040 Speaker 3: Huge spots of human behavior falls into this category of 435 00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:27,120 Speaker 3: things where we are mildly abusing ourselves in some way 436 00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:31,080 Speaker 3: that provides us some different pleasure. The whole complex interaction 437 00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:34,600 Speaker 3: of that is basically how all of society works. 438 00:28:35,080 --> 00:28:35,359 Speaker 2: Yep. 439 00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:39,720 Speaker 1: So we're going to take a quick break and when 440 00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:43,160 Speaker 1: we get back, we're going to talk about an animal 441 00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:50,560 Speaker 1: who is surprisingly dangerous and also, in the spirit of 442 00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:52,959 Speaker 1: what we've been talking about, how humans look at that 443 00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:59,280 Speaker 1: and see opportunity. All right, so we are back and 444 00:28:59,320 --> 00:29:03,920 Speaker 1: we're going to about a cute little animal who is 445 00:29:04,600 --> 00:29:06,760 Speaker 1: kind of surprisingly terrifying. 446 00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:08,880 Speaker 2: So platypusses. 447 00:29:09,080 --> 00:29:16,240 Speaker 1: Platypusses are small, cute, little monotremes found in Australia. I 448 00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:18,920 Speaker 1: think sometimes people are surprised by the size of them, 449 00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:23,280 Speaker 1: because like, at least when I used to think of platypus, 450 00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:28,120 Speaker 1: I would think of something like that's beaver sized, because 451 00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:31,000 Speaker 1: for some reason I put them in the same category 452 00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:37,200 Speaker 1: as beaver. Hey, it's an aquatic mammal and it swims 453 00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:40,880 Speaker 1: around and it's got that long, that flat tail, so 454 00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:43,880 Speaker 1: I thought, you know, it's like beaver size. They're actually 455 00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:47,280 Speaker 1: quite small. They can fit into your cupped hands. They're 456 00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:52,560 Speaker 1: much smaller than a beaver, and they eat earthworms mostly. 457 00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:55,160 Speaker 2: They lay eggs. They have a bill. 458 00:29:56,120 --> 00:30:01,320 Speaker 1: Female platypusses will seep milk out of their bellies to 459 00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:03,880 Speaker 1: feed their young, so they don't have nipples. They just 460 00:30:04,080 --> 00:30:09,840 Speaker 1: have pores on their tummies that basically leak milk, and 461 00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:13,720 Speaker 1: so they are this kind of archaic version of mammals. 462 00:30:13,760 --> 00:30:19,440 Speaker 1: They're still mammals, but they are monotremes. They're related to 463 00:30:19,680 --> 00:30:25,960 Speaker 1: echidneas as well, and males have a venomous spur on 464 00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:29,240 Speaker 1: their heel that can dose you with a potent, very 465 00:30:29,280 --> 00:30:30,760 Speaker 1: painful toxin. 466 00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:35,200 Speaker 3: Okay, before we get into the point of this, which 467 00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:40,120 Speaker 3: is the fact that males have the toxic spurs, is 468 00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:45,440 Speaker 3: there honestly no type of plat platypus that is like big, 469 00:30:45,640 --> 00:30:50,240 Speaker 3: because I instantly in my mind am imagining many, many 470 00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:53,120 Speaker 3: thousands of photos and videos of these things being like 471 00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:56,400 Speaker 3: big enough to sit on your desk and cover most 472 00:30:56,440 --> 00:30:59,160 Speaker 3: of it, like a large eyes a beaver bilt maybe 473 00:30:59,240 --> 00:31:02,200 Speaker 3: slightly larger than a beaver. No, I'm very eager to 474 00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:05,080 Speaker 3: hear if there are other listeners who are stunned to 475 00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:08,120 Speaker 3: find out that platypuses are small, because I don't know 476 00:31:08,160 --> 00:31:10,600 Speaker 3: where this started, but this is like a Berenstain Bears 477 00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:12,880 Speaker 3: thing for me. I'm now going to go look, and 478 00:31:12,920 --> 00:31:14,800 Speaker 3: I know for a fact it's going to turn out 479 00:31:14,840 --> 00:31:16,440 Speaker 3: that you're right. I'm not going to find a single 480 00:31:16,440 --> 00:31:20,440 Speaker 3: photo of somebody like cradling this thing in both arms. 481 00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:24,440 Speaker 3: But man, I'm for some reason, I'm really surprised to hear. 482 00:31:24,320 --> 00:31:29,920 Speaker 1: That, Yeah, they don't get that big. The things that 483 00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:35,480 Speaker 1: do get big. It's interesting. Echidnas actually do get large, 484 00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:39,960 Speaker 1: Like echidnas can get much larger than a platypus. Wombats too, 485 00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:43,680 Speaker 1: those can get quite large. So there are monotremes u 486 00:31:44,280 --> 00:31:49,320 Speaker 1: and marsupials that can get big, and yeah, it really is. 487 00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:52,440 Speaker 1: It's one of those things. For me, I suspect it's 488 00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:57,480 Speaker 1: because I have placed beaver and like platypus is Australian 489 00:31:57,560 --> 00:32:01,440 Speaker 1: beaver essentially, and beaver's can get to be quite big. 490 00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:04,760 Speaker 1: But yeah, the platypus is no, they they tend to 491 00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:11,920 Speaker 1: stay relatively small. You know, it's about chihuahua size or smaller. 492 00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:16,320 Speaker 1: Very weird, right, No, I get it because I had 493 00:32:16,360 --> 00:32:19,320 Speaker 1: this misconception as well, and I was surprised to find 494 00:32:19,320 --> 00:32:22,760 Speaker 1: out that they really don't get that big. But despite 495 00:32:22,760 --> 00:32:27,800 Speaker 1: being small, they can pack a punch with that venomous spur. 496 00:32:28,120 --> 00:32:32,360 Speaker 1: So it's thought that this venomous spur was common among 497 00:32:32,680 --> 00:32:37,760 Speaker 1: archaic mammals and that the platypus inherited it from its ancestors. 498 00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:43,400 Speaker 1: It is actually found in echidnas, the other this other 499 00:32:43,440 --> 00:32:47,960 Speaker 1: type of monotorum, but it is a vestigial trait, so 500 00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:51,720 Speaker 1: the spur does not actually contain any venom and the 501 00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:57,440 Speaker 1: echidna so the venom is only found in the male platypus. 502 00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:03,080 Speaker 1: The spike is this curved, hollow, caratinous structure, so it's 503 00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:07,120 Speaker 1: the same material as claws or fingernails, but it is 504 00:33:07,280 --> 00:33:11,440 Speaker 1: attached to a venom gland that is potent enough to 505 00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:16,360 Speaker 1: kill a dog. The venom actually doesn't seem to kill 506 00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:20,760 Speaker 1: other platypuses. There seems to be some amount of resistance 507 00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:24,320 Speaker 1: to their own venom, though they can be immobilized by 508 00:33:24,360 --> 00:33:29,240 Speaker 1: it or paralyzed by it, so the venom cannot kill 509 00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:32,080 Speaker 1: a human. You might be breathing a sigh of relief, 510 00:33:32,360 --> 00:33:36,840 Speaker 1: but hang on, it can ruin your day, your week, 511 00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:43,240 Speaker 1: or possibly many months, because it can have an effect 512 00:33:43,320 --> 00:33:47,240 Speaker 1: that is very painful, lasts a long time, and is 513 00:33:47,320 --> 00:33:54,880 Speaker 1: resistant to most of our strongest painkillers. So the pain 514 00:33:55,120 --> 00:33:59,000 Speaker 1: was first described in scientific literature in eighteen seventy six 515 00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:03,640 Speaker 1: by a natural William Webb Spicer, who wrote of this 516 00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:08,160 Speaker 1: unnamed victim quote, the pain was intense and almost paralyzing. 517 00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:12,000 Speaker 1: But for the administration of small doses of Brandy, he 518 00:34:12,160 --> 00:34:15,120 Speaker 1: would have fainted on the spot. As it was, it 519 00:34:15,200 --> 00:34:18,799 Speaker 1: was half an hour before he could stand without support. 520 00:34:19,080 --> 00:34:22,040 Speaker 1: By that time, the arm was swollen to the shoulder 521 00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:26,400 Speaker 1: and quite useless, and the pain in the hand very severe. 522 00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:33,920 Speaker 3: So, I mean, medicine was awesome. I've tried every type 523 00:34:33,920 --> 00:34:36,799 Speaker 3: of liquor on my shelf and the patient still has 524 00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:41,400 Speaker 3: not recovered. It appears that this bite is with stands 525 00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:43,160 Speaker 3: even the finest of whiskey. 526 00:34:44,719 --> 00:34:50,239 Speaker 1: I mean, honestly, so these stings are The pain is 527 00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:57,080 Speaker 1: resistant to morphine and other painkillers, modern medical painkillers. So 528 00:34:57,840 --> 00:35:00,919 Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know whether brandy wouldn't be 529 00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:06,040 Speaker 1: better in this situation because morphine does not really seem 530 00:35:06,120 --> 00:35:11,080 Speaker 1: to work very well against platypus venom, which is kind 531 00:35:11,080 --> 00:35:15,000 Speaker 1: of horrifying given that the pain can last hours or 532 00:35:15,160 --> 00:35:18,919 Speaker 1: days or weeks, or in a few extreme cases it's 533 00:35:19,040 --> 00:35:21,640 Speaker 1: lasted months. So there was a case of a fifty 534 00:35:21,680 --> 00:35:26,200 Speaker 1: seven year old victim whose afflicted hand remained sensitive and 535 00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:30,960 Speaker 1: in pain for around three months, which you know, you 536 00:35:31,040 --> 00:35:33,319 Speaker 1: might think, well, like three months, you know, I could 537 00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:35,719 Speaker 1: handle that, but just it's your hand, Like, imagine it 538 00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:41,920 Speaker 1: being swollen and in pain, just from this little cute 539 00:35:43,080 --> 00:35:48,680 Speaker 1: duck mammal that you found, and it just it seemed 540 00:35:48,719 --> 00:35:52,400 Speaker 1: like it was gonna be fine, and it heal kicked 541 00:35:52,440 --> 00:35:54,520 Speaker 1: you into pain for three months. 542 00:35:55,440 --> 00:35:58,000 Speaker 3: See, that's the thing, because if you spend time on 543 00:35:58,360 --> 00:36:02,000 Speaker 3: say TikTok, you find out that, especially in the social 544 00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:05,640 Speaker 3: media era, we people have decided that the whole world 545 00:36:05,760 --> 00:36:09,239 Speaker 3: is just full of our pets and potential pets. Like 546 00:36:09,280 --> 00:36:13,719 Speaker 3: people will approach bison and elk and all of these 547 00:36:13,800 --> 00:36:16,920 Speaker 3: because after all, this is nature. These are animals. They 548 00:36:16,960 --> 00:36:21,120 Speaker 3: are peaceful animals who coexist in nature. So they will 549 00:36:21,160 --> 00:36:23,080 Speaker 3: go get a selfie or a photo or a video 550 00:36:23,200 --> 00:36:28,440 Speaker 3: of them petting a bison or a bull or whatever. 551 00:36:28,960 --> 00:36:31,800 Speaker 3: So something like a platypus. If you were an American 552 00:36:31,920 --> 00:36:35,279 Speaker 3: vacationing in Australia and trying to get some great video 553 00:36:35,320 --> 00:36:38,720 Speaker 3: and you've saw one of these things by somebody of water, 554 00:36:39,640 --> 00:36:41,640 Speaker 3: oh my god, would you want to pick that thing 555 00:36:41,719 --> 00:36:44,160 Speaker 3: up and get video of it? Because it's a little 556 00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:48,960 Speaker 3: duck duck build duck build mouse thing. So when this 557 00:36:49,080 --> 00:36:51,440 Speaker 3: thing stings you and then you find out that this 558 00:36:51,600 --> 00:36:55,840 Speaker 3: is like worse than the average snake bite, apparently because 559 00:36:55,880 --> 00:37:00,439 Speaker 3: most snake bites aren't that bad, and you're so having 560 00:37:00,440 --> 00:37:03,320 Speaker 3: paid weeks later, I think you would be very surprised 561 00:37:03,400 --> 00:37:05,000 Speaker 3: and disappointed in nature. 562 00:37:06,239 --> 00:37:09,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, I have seen this trend on TikTok of people 563 00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:12,160 Speaker 1: picking up animals and then twirling around with them like 564 00:37:12,200 --> 00:37:15,640 Speaker 1: they're in that scene from the Titanic. I'm gonna go 565 00:37:15,719 --> 00:37:19,160 Speaker 1: ahead and say don't do that. Maybe don't do that, 566 00:37:19,800 --> 00:37:24,880 Speaker 1: primarily because that's gonna annoy the animal. The animal is 567 00:37:25,080 --> 00:37:28,680 Speaker 1: not Rose from the Titanic. It does not want to 568 00:37:28,719 --> 00:37:32,560 Speaker 1: be twirled like a baroness. It wants to be left 569 00:37:32,600 --> 00:37:37,719 Speaker 1: that heck alone. Secondary reason is you never know when 570 00:37:37,760 --> 00:37:41,000 Speaker 1: an animal got a poisonous barb and is gonna sting 571 00:37:41,040 --> 00:37:43,160 Speaker 1: you with it. I'm not gonna say that. There aren't 572 00:37:43,320 --> 00:37:47,560 Speaker 1: many animals out there who are secretly poisonous or secretly 573 00:37:47,680 --> 00:37:52,600 Speaker 1: venomous just so people will not mess with them as much. Bison, 574 00:37:52,880 --> 00:37:58,239 Speaker 1: they've got a giant unicorn horn that can invenimate you. Actually, no, 575 00:37:58,400 --> 00:38:01,560 Speaker 1: they can just gore you. And that's probably good enough. 576 00:38:02,760 --> 00:38:06,800 Speaker 3: I am telling everyone in the sound of my voice, 577 00:38:06,840 --> 00:38:11,480 Speaker 3: all of these creatures can move faster than you think. Yes, 578 00:38:11,880 --> 00:38:15,200 Speaker 3: there is horrifying video of people who thought it would 579 00:38:15,239 --> 00:38:19,279 Speaker 3: be fun to approach an alligator or a crocodile, because, 580 00:38:19,320 --> 00:38:21,400 Speaker 3: after all, they are very slow. They kind of float 581 00:38:21,440 --> 00:38:23,719 Speaker 3: in the water like logs, and they would get It's like, well, 582 00:38:23,800 --> 00:38:26,120 Speaker 3: I've watched Steve Berwin. You know, they'll like get on 583 00:38:26,160 --> 00:38:27,640 Speaker 3: top of it and get a video of it, like 584 00:38:27,680 --> 00:38:32,360 Speaker 3: stroking it's back or something. And they can bite so 585 00:38:32,640 --> 00:38:37,319 Speaker 3: fast yep, that the camera doesn't capture the motion. There's 586 00:38:37,400 --> 00:38:41,240 Speaker 3: a splash and then your hand is gone. Yeah, because 587 00:38:41,280 --> 00:38:45,880 Speaker 3: you have to understand, these things evolved to be able 588 00:38:45,920 --> 00:38:50,520 Speaker 3: to bite faster than a deer can react and you're 589 00:38:50,640 --> 00:38:55,600 Speaker 3: just a person who works in an office. I promise 590 00:38:55,640 --> 00:38:59,680 Speaker 3: you you do not perceive how fast nature moves and 591 00:38:59,680 --> 00:39:03,239 Speaker 3: how fast the average predator can bite because they have 592 00:39:03,360 --> 00:39:08,760 Speaker 3: to bite faster than you can see or they would starve. 593 00:39:09,520 --> 00:39:11,799 Speaker 3: They can bite in a fraction of a second. They 594 00:39:11,800 --> 00:39:14,440 Speaker 3: can complete the motion. You will not get out of 595 00:39:14,480 --> 00:39:17,560 Speaker 3: the way. I think a lifetime of watching movies and 596 00:39:17,960 --> 00:39:20,600 Speaker 3: wild animals and movies where it's a cg animal and 597 00:39:20,640 --> 00:39:23,120 Speaker 3: the guys having to fight it or whatever jump out 598 00:39:23,120 --> 00:39:26,239 Speaker 3: of the way. It's like, no, in real life, if 599 00:39:26,280 --> 00:39:29,920 Speaker 3: it decides to buy you, you're not going to know 600 00:39:30,040 --> 00:39:32,560 Speaker 3: it until your hand is already gone. 601 00:39:33,040 --> 00:39:37,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, there's this like famous photo of a human arm 602 00:39:38,360 --> 00:39:42,719 Speaker 1: in I believe it was an alligator. It could have 603 00:39:42,760 --> 00:39:46,200 Speaker 1: been a crocodile, but it had it in its mouth 604 00:39:46,280 --> 00:39:49,240 Speaker 1: and it's just like this inert hand in its mouth. 605 00:39:49,840 --> 00:39:52,719 Speaker 1: I think it was at It may have been at 606 00:39:52,719 --> 00:39:56,120 Speaker 1: a zoo or a nature preserve, so I think it 607 00:39:56,160 --> 00:39:58,680 Speaker 1: was actually the hand of a professional. So if a 608 00:39:58,719 --> 00:40:03,000 Speaker 1: professional sometimes lose this is hand to alligators and crocodiles, 609 00:40:03,920 --> 00:40:06,520 Speaker 1: most of us don't really have a chance. But you 610 00:40:06,560 --> 00:40:12,279 Speaker 1: know again, human beings, we're endlessly innovative and interested in 611 00:40:13,360 --> 00:40:17,200 Speaker 1: running towards the danger in case it might improve our lot. 612 00:40:18,760 --> 00:40:24,239 Speaker 1: The very horrifying venom of the platypus that is resistant 613 00:40:24,360 --> 00:40:27,920 Speaker 1: to painkillers and can last for weeks or months. Some 614 00:40:27,960 --> 00:40:31,760 Speaker 1: people are like, hey, that's great, let's study it because 615 00:40:31,800 --> 00:40:36,040 Speaker 1: we might actually discover more about pain management and new 616 00:40:36,080 --> 00:40:40,239 Speaker 1: ways to relieve pain that doesn't involve opiates, or to 617 00:40:40,600 --> 00:40:45,760 Speaker 1: address pain that doesn't respond well to our current painkillers. 618 00:40:45,800 --> 00:40:50,640 Speaker 1: So I do appreciate that part of the human spirit 619 00:40:50,760 --> 00:40:55,120 Speaker 1: where we were like, this is horrible and deadly. Maybe 620 00:40:55,120 --> 00:40:58,480 Speaker 1: it's medicine, and often it is. It's like we've done 621 00:40:58,520 --> 00:41:03,120 Speaker 1: this with stak venom, We've done this with various dangerous compounds, 622 00:41:03,160 --> 00:41:06,000 Speaker 1: where we're like, well, this is horrible and does bad 623 00:41:06,080 --> 00:41:11,040 Speaker 1: stuff to our blood and our bodies. Maybe that means 624 00:41:11,400 --> 00:41:15,399 Speaker 1: it can be medicine. And that's how we've created things 625 00:41:15,440 --> 00:41:20,880 Speaker 1: like anticoagulants or pro coagulants that can help people because 626 00:41:21,360 --> 00:41:27,040 Speaker 1: we're masochists who enjoy the thrill of subjecting ourselves to 627 00:41:27,760 --> 00:41:29,680 Speaker 1: weird and terrifying stuff. 628 00:41:31,440 --> 00:41:34,440 Speaker 3: Or maybe it could be a weapon, if you're looking 629 00:41:34,520 --> 00:41:36,880 Speaker 3: for some sort of a chemical weapon that could not 630 00:41:36,960 --> 00:41:40,080 Speaker 3: be treated by painkillers. It's like, hey, the platypuses have 631 00:41:40,160 --> 00:41:42,120 Speaker 3: mastered this, let's learn their ways. 632 00:41:43,680 --> 00:41:47,200 Speaker 1: I like the idea of having our armies just be 633 00:41:47,320 --> 00:41:53,600 Speaker 1: little platypuses. That would be adorable. Most adorable war crime 634 00:41:53,800 --> 00:41:57,200 Speaker 1: would be torturing someone with a platypus. 635 00:41:57,120 --> 00:42:02,040 Speaker 3: Just dropping them out of planes, little tiny pear chutes. 636 00:42:03,160 --> 00:42:05,080 Speaker 1: Well, we're going to take a quick break, but when 637 00:42:05,080 --> 00:42:07,880 Speaker 1: we get back, we're going to talk about an animal 638 00:42:08,280 --> 00:42:14,600 Speaker 1: who actually does have a medical use and sometimes creates 639 00:42:14,760 --> 00:42:19,200 Speaker 1: a medical marvel that is very rare and very weird. 640 00:42:19,480 --> 00:42:20,879 Speaker 2: So we will be right back. 641 00:42:22,560 --> 00:42:25,200 Speaker 1: So, Jason, you actually brought this up to me, which 642 00:42:25,320 --> 00:42:28,840 Speaker 1: I found really interesting. I was skeptical and then I 643 00:42:28,880 --> 00:42:32,160 Speaker 1: looked into it and it is actually true. It is 644 00:42:32,320 --> 00:42:35,919 Speaker 1: a snake bite that has been known to cause so 645 00:42:36,040 --> 00:42:43,959 Speaker 1: called reverse puberty to the rare, unlucky victim. So this 646 00:42:44,320 --> 00:42:49,239 Speaker 1: is courtesy of the Russell's vipers. So Russell's vipers are 647 00:42:49,360 --> 00:42:54,880 Speaker 1: found in and near India. It is a large brown 648 00:42:55,280 --> 00:42:59,520 Speaker 1: snake about four feet long so over a meter, with 649 00:42:59,719 --> 00:43:05,600 Speaker 1: brown oval patterns. It is I'm not gonna say it 650 00:43:05,600 --> 00:43:08,759 Speaker 1: looks like a rattlesnake because it's missing the rattle and 651 00:43:08,880 --> 00:43:11,839 Speaker 1: rattlesnakes are much bumpier. But the patterns on its skin 652 00:43:11,880 --> 00:43:16,520 Speaker 1: are somewhat similar. This is exactly the kind of snake 653 00:43:16,719 --> 00:43:19,120 Speaker 1: to be wary of. I do love to talk about 654 00:43:19,239 --> 00:43:21,279 Speaker 1: snakes on the podcast that you do not need to 655 00:43:21,280 --> 00:43:23,600 Speaker 1: be so scared of and that we should love and appreciate. 656 00:43:24,120 --> 00:43:25,759 Speaker 2: This is one you should be scared of. 657 00:43:26,480 --> 00:43:29,800 Speaker 1: And while we can love and appreciate it, we gotta 658 00:43:29,840 --> 00:43:33,359 Speaker 1: do it from afar because it is venomous and they 659 00:43:33,520 --> 00:43:36,399 Speaker 1: like to hang out near human areas. They do this 660 00:43:36,480 --> 00:43:39,840 Speaker 1: because when there's human activity, there is rodent activity. The 661 00:43:39,960 --> 00:43:42,200 Speaker 1: rodents like to eat our food and our waste, and 662 00:43:42,320 --> 00:43:45,279 Speaker 1: the snakes like to eat the rodents, and so these 663 00:43:45,280 --> 00:43:48,920 Speaker 1: snakes will be found around people. And their venom is 664 00:43:49,040 --> 00:43:52,359 Speaker 1: very potent and it can hurt and kill people, and 665 00:43:52,440 --> 00:43:57,480 Speaker 1: it has so. Without treatment, their venom can be very 666 00:43:57,480 --> 00:44:00,640 Speaker 1: deadly to humans and cause problems such as black from 667 00:44:00,680 --> 00:44:04,440 Speaker 1: the gums, blood in the urine, blistering, and necrosis that 668 00:44:04,520 --> 00:44:07,719 Speaker 1: means the death of the tissue near the bite. Can 669 00:44:07,800 --> 00:44:13,239 Speaker 1: cause facial swelling, vomiting, kidney failure, blood clots, blood poisoning, 670 00:44:13,360 --> 00:44:20,040 Speaker 1: and heart failure. Pain can last for weeks following the bite. 671 00:44:20,440 --> 00:44:26,200 Speaker 1: Like a lot of snake venom, it can interfere with 672 00:44:26,520 --> 00:44:30,800 Speaker 1: clotting blood clotting, so the venom can cause both blood 673 00:44:30,840 --> 00:44:35,160 Speaker 1: clotting and bleeding, so destruction of the blood vessels and 674 00:44:36,239 --> 00:44:40,359 Speaker 1: the increase in blood clot formation, which is a kind 675 00:44:40,360 --> 00:44:45,200 Speaker 1: of weird and horrible combination. But it's so good at 676 00:44:45,239 --> 00:44:50,799 Speaker 1: inducing blood clots, which can cause problems in vivo in 677 00:44:51,000 --> 00:44:55,160 Speaker 1: the human body, but in vitro. It is used in 678 00:44:55,280 --> 00:45:00,239 Speaker 1: medical laboratory settings to test the clotting ability of blood, 679 00:45:00,600 --> 00:45:02,719 Speaker 1: so this is really useful actually to look for the 680 00:45:02,760 --> 00:45:08,440 Speaker 1: presence of something called lupus anticoagulant. So if the blood 681 00:45:08,520 --> 00:45:12,120 Speaker 1: clots in the standard amount of time when given a 682 00:45:12,120 --> 00:45:15,319 Speaker 1: little drop of this snake venom, it means that this 683 00:45:15,440 --> 00:45:19,000 Speaker 1: lupus anticoagulant is not present, But if it takes longer, 684 00:45:19,960 --> 00:45:23,759 Speaker 1: it indicates the presence of this lupus anti coagulant that 685 00:45:23,880 --> 00:45:29,000 Speaker 1: interferes with the development of clots. I could get into 686 00:45:29,040 --> 00:45:33,640 Speaker 1: a whole explanation about what lupus anticoagulant is, because it's 687 00:45:33,680 --> 00:45:37,000 Speaker 1: actually a pro coagulant in the body and it's confusing, 688 00:45:37,080 --> 00:45:40,440 Speaker 1: but that seems like a topic for a medical podcast, 689 00:45:40,560 --> 00:45:44,280 Speaker 1: not this one. But the point is that this snake 690 00:45:44,400 --> 00:45:50,879 Speaker 1: venom is actually an important and useful medical diagnostic tool, and. 691 00:45:51,040 --> 00:45:53,840 Speaker 3: Me today it is. But the reason I wanted to 692 00:45:53,880 --> 00:45:57,240 Speaker 3: talk about this one is because I have this belief 693 00:45:57,280 --> 00:46:01,759 Speaker 3: that I think most cultures, most human cultures, have specific 694 00:46:01,800 --> 00:46:05,800 Speaker 3: beliefs about snakes and that they are you know, because obviously, 695 00:46:05,920 --> 00:46:08,480 Speaker 3: and you know in our culture we have the snake 696 00:46:08,600 --> 00:46:11,359 Speaker 3: and the Bible and whatever it refers to serpents, they're 697 00:46:11,480 --> 00:46:16,440 Speaker 3: very apocalyptic or devious. I think the idea that snakes 698 00:46:16,560 --> 00:46:21,080 Speaker 3: are cursed in some way comes to the fact that 699 00:46:21,280 --> 00:46:23,640 Speaker 3: when when they get a bite, it's not just that 700 00:46:23,719 --> 00:46:28,320 Speaker 3: it swells up and hurts. You get effects that are weird, 701 00:46:28,640 --> 00:46:31,920 Speaker 3: Like you look at the list of you know what 702 00:46:32,120 --> 00:46:34,880 Speaker 3: in the urine, bleeding from the gums. It would have 703 00:46:35,040 --> 00:46:37,719 Speaker 3: to seem like a curse like you had been if 704 00:46:37,760 --> 00:46:39,840 Speaker 3: you were an ancient people, it not seemed like you 705 00:46:39,840 --> 00:46:42,439 Speaker 3: were bit by an animal, but that this animal has 706 00:46:42,520 --> 00:46:45,680 Speaker 3: cursed you with a whole range of ailments that don't 707 00:46:45,719 --> 00:46:49,680 Speaker 3: seem to have anything to do with the bite. 708 00:46:49,880 --> 00:46:53,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what's spooky about snake venom is that it 709 00:46:53,560 --> 00:46:57,799 Speaker 1: has such a wide range of effects, like over the 710 00:46:57,880 --> 00:47:02,360 Speaker 1: whole body, and it creates these like hellish symptoms and 711 00:47:02,440 --> 00:47:05,960 Speaker 1: people that are scary to look at, even more. 712 00:47:05,880 --> 00:47:10,640 Speaker 3: Scared as one of them. Your face swells up was 713 00:47:10,680 --> 00:47:13,759 Speaker 3: one of the symptoms. So it's uncontrollable vomiting and your 714 00:47:13,800 --> 00:47:16,560 Speaker 3: face is swelling and there's blood in your urine, like 715 00:47:17,239 --> 00:47:19,560 Speaker 3: you would just have to feel like this is a 716 00:47:19,840 --> 00:47:21,120 Speaker 3: league you've been attacked with. 717 00:47:21,480 --> 00:47:25,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's horrible, horrible, horrible, it's I mean, you know, 718 00:47:25,680 --> 00:47:29,800 Speaker 1: it's so important that we have anti venom because anti 719 00:47:29,880 --> 00:47:34,200 Speaker 1: venom treatment can prevent or help reduce symptoms and it 720 00:47:34,200 --> 00:47:38,200 Speaker 1: can save your life. An answer to your you wanted 721 00:47:38,200 --> 00:47:41,080 Speaker 1: to know if we still use the snake venom in 722 00:47:41,200 --> 00:47:42,799 Speaker 1: diagnostic tests, and yes we do. 723 00:47:42,960 --> 00:47:44,680 Speaker 2: It's called diluted Russell. 724 00:47:44,440 --> 00:47:49,600 Speaker 1: Viper venom time dr VVT, which is a very popular 725 00:47:49,640 --> 00:47:54,799 Speaker 1: test used in labs for trying to find this loopus anticoagulant. So, 726 00:47:55,400 --> 00:47:59,480 Speaker 1: as far as I know, this test is still used. 727 00:48:00,640 --> 00:48:04,760 Speaker 1: It sounds like archaic, but if it works, it works. 728 00:48:04,800 --> 00:48:08,120 Speaker 1: I mean, once you have a compound that can induce 729 00:48:08,160 --> 00:48:13,040 Speaker 1: coagulation and blood, that is very useful for testing whether 730 00:48:13,080 --> 00:48:17,839 Speaker 1: the blood is able to coagulate at all. Another interesting 731 00:48:18,080 --> 00:48:23,560 Speaker 1: medical phenomenon with this snake is the so called reverse 732 00:48:23,680 --> 00:48:28,800 Speaker 1: puberty that it can cause. So reverse puberty doesn't really 733 00:48:28,800 --> 00:48:31,319 Speaker 1: mean you turn back into a teenager and go full 734 00:48:31,400 --> 00:48:36,560 Speaker 1: Benjamin Buttons, but it does mean that sexually mature characteristics 735 00:48:36,640 --> 00:48:43,200 Speaker 1: can be either interfered with or revert. So medically speaking, 736 00:48:43,600 --> 00:48:48,319 Speaker 1: this is a case of hypopituitarism, so that means that 737 00:48:48,360 --> 00:48:52,200 Speaker 1: the pituitary gland is not as active as it should 738 00:48:52,200 --> 00:48:55,600 Speaker 1: be or is not at all active. So the peituitary 739 00:48:55,680 --> 00:49:00,360 Speaker 1: gland is responsible for producing hormones that they regular a 740 00:49:00,400 --> 00:49:04,239 Speaker 1: lot of bodily processes, but that includes things associated with 741 00:49:04,680 --> 00:49:11,240 Speaker 1: puberty and post puberty. So the way this snake messes 742 00:49:11,440 --> 00:49:16,760 Speaker 1: with your sexual characteristics is that the Russell's viper venom 743 00:49:17,239 --> 00:49:21,720 Speaker 1: can cause bleeding or clotting in the pituitary gland, which 744 00:49:22,239 --> 00:49:26,880 Speaker 1: damages it and disrupts its function, and this can cause 745 00:49:27,480 --> 00:49:32,000 Speaker 1: in rare cases, and in the rare cases that this happens, 746 00:49:32,200 --> 00:49:35,960 Speaker 1: this can cause pubic or armpit hair loss. It can 747 00:49:36,000 --> 00:49:42,600 Speaker 1: interfere with the minstrel cycle, either stopping it or causing irregularity. 748 00:49:43,200 --> 00:49:48,440 Speaker 1: It can decrease libido and cause rectile and sexual dysfunction. 749 00:49:49,160 --> 00:49:54,080 Speaker 1: So yeah, very much like a witch's curse this venom. 750 00:49:54,600 --> 00:49:59,560 Speaker 1: It's so bad because it's actively damaging the tissue of 751 00:49:59,640 --> 00:50:03,200 Speaker 1: the p puuritary gland in these cases, and so you know, 752 00:50:03,400 --> 00:50:06,319 Speaker 1: in these rare cases that this happens, people sometimes have 753 00:50:06,440 --> 00:50:12,440 Speaker 1: to go on hormone treatment for life because the puritary 754 00:50:12,480 --> 00:50:15,759 Speaker 1: gland it can no longer function, it can't heal, and 755 00:50:16,080 --> 00:50:19,000 Speaker 1: so they have to receive hormone treatments for the rest 756 00:50:19,040 --> 00:50:23,600 Speaker 1: of their life to treat these issues and to keep 757 00:50:23,680 --> 00:50:25,720 Speaker 1: their body functioning normally. 758 00:50:26,160 --> 00:50:29,480 Speaker 3: And it seems to an ancient people or even just 759 00:50:29,520 --> 00:50:31,080 Speaker 3: in a part of the world where they don't have 760 00:50:31,560 --> 00:50:36,520 Speaker 3: great modern education, it's so different from you know, if 761 00:50:36,560 --> 00:50:40,680 Speaker 3: you get bitten by a lion or an alligator, it 762 00:50:40,760 --> 00:50:42,719 Speaker 3: bites you, it is chewed off a part of your arm, 763 00:50:42,840 --> 00:50:46,560 Speaker 3: it's trying to eat you. That's extremely clear what's happening there, 764 00:50:46,960 --> 00:50:49,799 Speaker 3: the idea of getting bit by a snake and that 765 00:50:49,960 --> 00:50:54,520 Speaker 3: over the course of months, your whole body changes in ways. 766 00:50:54,520 --> 00:50:57,840 Speaker 3: It seems to be reverting you to youth or whatever, 767 00:50:58,040 --> 00:51:01,920 Speaker 3: like certain hair falls out and you're sexual performance changes 768 00:51:02,040 --> 00:51:05,239 Speaker 3: or all of these various effects that are just hormonal. 769 00:51:05,400 --> 00:51:08,440 Speaker 3: If you don't know the mechanism of that, you would 770 00:51:08,600 --> 00:51:11,960 Speaker 3: have to think like you would have to go looking 771 00:51:12,040 --> 00:51:15,239 Speaker 3: for the snake to find out how to appease it 772 00:51:15,360 --> 00:51:17,759 Speaker 3: or something to reverse the curse. You would have to 773 00:51:17,760 --> 00:51:20,160 Speaker 3: regard it as as some sort of a magical thing. 774 00:51:20,280 --> 00:51:24,440 Speaker 3: I would think it just it feels mystical. It doesn't 775 00:51:24,440 --> 00:51:26,719 Speaker 3: feel like something an animal should be able to do 776 00:51:26,840 --> 00:51:27,800 Speaker 3: to you with a bite. 777 00:51:28,360 --> 00:51:30,680 Speaker 1: I mean, it's so funny too, because the snake has 778 00:51:30,840 --> 00:51:36,040 Speaker 1: no interest in causing us harm like this. It really 779 00:51:36,080 --> 00:51:39,719 Speaker 1: could not care less about whether our pubic hair falls off. 780 00:51:40,080 --> 00:51:45,080 Speaker 1: That venom is mostly for its prey, so it uses 781 00:51:45,120 --> 00:51:49,600 Speaker 1: that venom to shock and paralyze and kill its prey, 782 00:51:50,320 --> 00:51:53,839 Speaker 1: and that is its preferred usage for it. In fact, 783 00:51:53,840 --> 00:51:56,680 Speaker 1: there are a lot of snakes that are venomous, but 784 00:51:56,920 --> 00:51:59,440 Speaker 1: when they bite you, they actually do what's called a 785 00:51:59,560 --> 00:52:03,160 Speaker 1: dry because they don't want to waste their venom on 786 00:52:03,280 --> 00:52:06,319 Speaker 1: you because they would much prefer to use it on 787 00:52:06,440 --> 00:52:11,160 Speaker 1: their prey. But if they feel very threatened they will, 788 00:52:11,760 --> 00:52:14,799 Speaker 1: or if they mistake you for prey like that, they're 789 00:52:14,840 --> 00:52:20,480 Speaker 1: happy enough to use their venom to protect themselves. And 790 00:52:20,960 --> 00:52:27,440 Speaker 1: it is it's just weird and kind of unfortunate that 791 00:52:27,719 --> 00:52:31,160 Speaker 1: it has such a profound effect on us and has 792 00:52:31,200 --> 00:52:34,240 Speaker 1: such like truly like you have. 793 00:52:34,120 --> 00:52:35,240 Speaker 2: Been cursed. 794 00:52:36,680 --> 00:52:42,440 Speaker 1: And it I definitely can see why snakes are involved 795 00:52:42,440 --> 00:52:47,280 Speaker 1: in a lot of sort of folklore and mysticism because 796 00:52:47,320 --> 00:52:51,000 Speaker 1: it is it is such a such a potent natural 797 00:52:51,320 --> 00:52:55,719 Speaker 1: toxin that they have. Before we go, we do got 798 00:52:55,719 --> 00:52:59,680 Speaker 1: to play a little game called the Mystery Animal Sound game. 799 00:53:00,840 --> 00:53:02,200 Speaker 2: Every week I play. 800 00:53:02,080 --> 00:53:05,239 Speaker 1: A mystery animal sound and you the listener, and you 801 00:53:05,440 --> 00:53:08,760 Speaker 1: the gest try to guess who is making that sound. 802 00:53:09,840 --> 00:53:14,080 Speaker 1: It can be any animal. So last week's Mystery animal sound, 803 00:53:14,200 --> 00:53:18,560 Speaker 1: the hint was this, This raptor is all about no 804 00:53:18,800 --> 00:53:19,759 Speaker 1: shave November? 805 00:53:27,600 --> 00:53:27,960 Speaker 2: All right? 806 00:53:28,040 --> 00:53:31,120 Speaker 1: Could you hear that thing that sounded like a broken 807 00:53:31,239 --> 00:53:32,000 Speaker 1: squeaky toy? 808 00:53:33,400 --> 00:53:36,160 Speaker 3: You've already in the hint told us that it's a raptor, 809 00:53:36,360 --> 00:53:38,800 Speaker 3: right right, Like it's a type of bird of prey. 810 00:53:39,040 --> 00:53:41,080 Speaker 2: That's right, And you made a. 811 00:53:41,120 --> 00:53:49,880 Speaker 3: Reference to no shave November. Let me try to visualize 812 00:53:49,880 --> 00:53:52,200 Speaker 3: it and try to think of what are the mustache 813 00:53:52,280 --> 00:53:55,880 Speaker 3: related birds that I know, because there are so many. 814 00:53:57,680 --> 00:54:01,160 Speaker 3: I am going to say that is the sound of 815 00:54:01,239 --> 00:54:06,600 Speaker 3: a Siberian mustache goal. 816 00:54:09,000 --> 00:54:14,560 Speaker 1: I love it sounds like it could be a real bird. However, 817 00:54:15,200 --> 00:54:22,759 Speaker 1: this is the bearded vulture. Congratulations too, the Western Australian 818 00:54:22,800 --> 00:54:27,560 Speaker 1: Insects Study Society Anti be and saga E for guessing correctly. 819 00:54:28,239 --> 00:54:33,920 Speaker 1: So you're close with that Siberian mustached goal which I 820 00:54:34,040 --> 00:54:37,120 Speaker 1: don't believe is a real bird. But maybe if we, 821 00:54:38,160 --> 00:54:40,600 Speaker 1: you know, keep our minds open, we will discover such 822 00:54:40,600 --> 00:54:42,760 Speaker 1: a bird. Certainly, there aren't. 823 00:54:42,840 --> 00:54:47,560 Speaker 3: Any more ridiculous than the thing you just said there are. 824 00:54:47,960 --> 00:54:50,839 Speaker 1: You can't come up with a bird that doesn't at 825 00:54:50,960 --> 00:54:54,840 Speaker 1: least have a counterpart in real life. That is just 826 00:54:55,000 --> 00:54:57,600 Speaker 1: as if not more ridiculous. So yes, this is the 827 00:54:57,640 --> 00:55:02,120 Speaker 1: bearded vulture. It is found in southern Europe. Actually it's 828 00:55:02,480 --> 00:55:06,120 Speaker 1: kind of near me. It's in Grand Paradiso National Park. 829 00:55:06,280 --> 00:55:10,600 Speaker 1: I have gone out so many times trying to see 830 00:55:10,640 --> 00:55:14,760 Speaker 1: this bird. Never once, never, once have I seen one. 831 00:55:14,800 --> 00:55:19,080 Speaker 1: Someday hopefully. It's also found in East Africa, India and 832 00:55:19,160 --> 00:55:23,520 Speaker 1: the surrounding area as well as Tibet. So they are 833 00:55:23,560 --> 00:55:26,680 Speaker 1: a very large raptor that is a bird of prey. 834 00:55:27,239 --> 00:55:29,960 Speaker 1: They have a wingspan that can get up to over 835 00:55:30,160 --> 00:55:33,799 Speaker 1: nine feet, so that's nearly three meters of wingspan. That 836 00:55:33,920 --> 00:55:37,640 Speaker 1: is Jesus yep, it's a big, big, big old bird. 837 00:55:37,880 --> 00:55:43,320 Speaker 1: They are a wonderfully spooky, halloweeny bird because their diet 838 00:55:43,480 --> 00:55:45,440 Speaker 1: is almost entirely bones. 839 00:55:46,040 --> 00:55:50,000 Speaker 3: That sounds very cool, but I'm telling you, every single 840 00:55:50,040 --> 00:55:54,200 Speaker 3: listener who is imagining in their head this bearded vulture 841 00:55:54,440 --> 00:55:58,600 Speaker 3: is picturing the wrong thing. There's almost no way it 842 00:55:58,680 --> 00:56:01,799 Speaker 3: has the thick look jurious beard that all of us 843 00:56:01,920 --> 00:56:03,880 Speaker 3: want it to have. And I'm worried that if I 844 00:56:03,920 --> 00:56:05,399 Speaker 3: go look up a picture of it right now, I'm 845 00:56:05,400 --> 00:56:07,399 Speaker 3: going to be extremely disappointed. 846 00:56:07,640 --> 00:56:10,480 Speaker 1: I don't think you will be, because it is a 847 00:56:10,520 --> 00:56:15,760 Speaker 1: beautiful bird, so look it up. The reason it's called 848 00:56:16,000 --> 00:56:21,479 Speaker 1: bearded is because rather than being bald like most vultures, 849 00:56:21,960 --> 00:56:26,720 Speaker 1: it has full head of hair, full head of feathers, 850 00:56:27,200 --> 00:56:31,920 Speaker 1: and around its neck and chest it has these beautiful, 851 00:56:32,200 --> 00:56:39,480 Speaker 1: scruffy feathers that it looks fantastic. And these feathers often 852 00:56:39,560 --> 00:56:43,319 Speaker 1: have this beautiful kind of pink reddish hue, which I'll 853 00:56:43,320 --> 00:56:46,040 Speaker 1: talk about why that happens a little bit. But Jason, 854 00:56:46,120 --> 00:56:48,759 Speaker 1: have you looked up a photo and are you disappointed? 855 00:56:50,239 --> 00:56:53,759 Speaker 3: I have, and I'm not trying to contradict you, but 856 00:56:54,000 --> 00:56:58,040 Speaker 3: I don't think it's called bearded because of the red 857 00:56:58,120 --> 00:57:01,640 Speaker 3: feathers on its throat seems to have a little black 858 00:57:02,400 --> 00:57:06,160 Speaker 3: goatee style beard dangling down from the base of its beak. 859 00:57:08,640 --> 00:57:12,240 Speaker 2: It could be it does have a little. 860 00:57:12,040 --> 00:57:16,360 Speaker 3: Straight up seems to have a very bad beard, but again. 861 00:57:17,680 --> 00:57:20,840 Speaker 1: It does have a weird little sideburns. 862 00:57:22,520 --> 00:57:25,440 Speaker 3: Like I guess, okay, I see yeah, Like from the side, 863 00:57:25,760 --> 00:57:28,520 Speaker 3: I can see someone thinking that it's that that's its 864 00:57:28,560 --> 00:57:29,360 Speaker 3: little beard. 865 00:57:29,480 --> 00:57:31,440 Speaker 1: That it's got a little go tea. Yeah, that actually 866 00:57:31,520 --> 00:57:35,560 Speaker 1: might be why you might be right, Yes, it has. 867 00:57:35,760 --> 00:57:36,720 Speaker 2: It has that. 868 00:57:36,720 --> 00:57:42,160 Speaker 1: Little weird go tea and then a pink these pinkish 869 00:57:42,200 --> 00:57:45,680 Speaker 1: red scruffy neck feathers and then sort of black and 870 00:57:45,680 --> 00:57:48,160 Speaker 1: white feathers on the rest of it. It's truly an 871 00:57:48,200 --> 00:57:53,480 Speaker 1: amazing looking bird. I think it's beautiful, actually it is. 872 00:57:54,160 --> 00:57:56,919 Speaker 3: The problem is that the beard is the least impressive part. 873 00:57:57,200 --> 00:57:59,480 Speaker 3: The beard looks like it's kind of been dyed black, 874 00:57:59,560 --> 00:58:02,000 Speaker 3: like a worst dad who grew out like a go 875 00:58:02,120 --> 00:58:05,720 Speaker 3: tee and doesn't know he's like trying to start a 876 00:58:05,720 --> 00:58:07,760 Speaker 3: band or something, and he's like in his forties and 877 00:58:07,800 --> 00:58:11,200 Speaker 3: he's like got a dyed black go tea. Like it's 878 00:58:11,200 --> 00:58:13,720 Speaker 3: the least impressive feature of the animal. And I think 879 00:58:13,720 --> 00:58:16,680 Speaker 3: it's kind of sad that they named it the bearded vulture, 880 00:58:16,760 --> 00:58:19,080 Speaker 3: like they're calling out this one feature because that is 881 00:58:19,120 --> 00:58:21,360 Speaker 3: the least impressive thing about it, should. 882 00:58:21,040 --> 00:58:27,720 Speaker 1: Be called the soul patch vulture. But nevertheless, they eat bones, 883 00:58:27,920 --> 00:58:29,080 Speaker 1: which is pretty metal. 884 00:58:29,240 --> 00:58:29,760 Speaker 2: I love it. 885 00:58:30,440 --> 00:58:32,800 Speaker 1: And it's not just the bone marrow. They eat the 886 00:58:33,000 --> 00:58:37,920 Speaker 1: entire bone. They can digest the whole bone. Over ninety 887 00:58:37,920 --> 00:58:41,520 Speaker 1: percent of their diet is just bones. Their powerful digestive 888 00:58:41,600 --> 00:58:46,120 Speaker 1: juices dissolves the bone. They do need to break apart 889 00:58:46,160 --> 00:58:49,320 Speaker 1: the bone into chunks that are small enough that it 890 00:58:49,360 --> 00:58:53,720 Speaker 1: can swallow whole, So they either snap apart brittle bones 891 00:58:53,800 --> 00:58:58,120 Speaker 1: on the ground, or for the more stubborn bones, they 892 00:58:58,200 --> 00:59:02,360 Speaker 1: can pick them up and and drop them from a 893 00:59:02,480 --> 00:59:05,800 Speaker 1: height and then it shatters on the ground and they 894 00:59:05,840 --> 00:59:10,160 Speaker 1: pick up the little pieces and swallow those whole. So 895 00:59:10,640 --> 00:59:14,080 Speaker 1: even though they look like they would attack you and 896 00:59:14,160 --> 00:59:17,600 Speaker 1: try to rip out your livery, the most you have 897 00:59:17,680 --> 00:59:20,960 Speaker 1: to fear from them is them accidentally dropping a bone 898 00:59:20,960 --> 00:59:24,360 Speaker 1: on your head, which is pretty unlikely because their populations 899 00:59:24,360 --> 00:59:28,800 Speaker 1: are not that not that big, and their populations have declined, 900 00:59:29,120 --> 00:59:32,240 Speaker 1: which is sad. Another cool thing about these guys is, 901 00:59:32,280 --> 00:59:37,960 Speaker 1: despite being spooky, bone eating soul patched gods. They also 902 00:59:38,080 --> 00:59:41,760 Speaker 1: love makeup, so that beautiful kind of reddish orange pinky 903 00:59:41,880 --> 00:59:47,840 Speaker 1: hue on their chest feathers is actually makeup that they 904 00:59:47,840 --> 00:59:52,040 Speaker 1: have applied. It is rusty, iron rich dirt and mud 905 00:59:52,200 --> 00:59:57,320 Speaker 1: that they have intentionally rubbed themselves with. And while it's 906 00:59:57,360 --> 01:00:00,280 Speaker 1: not one hundred percent known why they do this, the 907 01:00:00,320 --> 01:00:03,280 Speaker 1: thought is that it makes them more sexually attractive. So 908 01:00:04,360 --> 01:00:08,360 Speaker 1: both the males and females do this, so gender equity hooray. 909 01:00:09,360 --> 01:00:13,520 Speaker 1: And they probably do it to appear more mature and 910 01:00:13,640 --> 01:00:16,920 Speaker 1: more attractive to mates, and they might also do it 911 01:00:16,920 --> 01:00:20,840 Speaker 1: to make themselves look more impressive to their peers, regardless 912 01:00:20,840 --> 01:00:24,200 Speaker 1: of whether they want to mate, so that they know, like, 913 01:00:24,560 --> 01:00:30,560 Speaker 1: this is a fit, healthy, beautiful makeup wearing bearded vulture, 914 01:00:30,760 --> 01:00:33,400 Speaker 1: and I probably shouldn't try to mess with them or 915 01:00:33,440 --> 01:00:37,320 Speaker 1: invade their territory, so you know it is. It's one 916 01:00:37,320 --> 01:00:40,840 Speaker 1: of those things where like anyone who wears makeup might 917 01:00:40,880 --> 01:00:43,840 Speaker 1: feel the same way, whereast you do it sometimes because 918 01:00:43,840 --> 01:00:47,600 Speaker 1: you want to be attractive to people you are sexually 919 01:00:47,640 --> 01:00:51,440 Speaker 1: interested in, and sometimes you do it because you just 920 01:00:51,880 --> 01:00:55,640 Speaker 1: want to look impressive and send a message about yourself, 921 01:00:55,840 --> 01:00:58,640 Speaker 1: or just because you like how you look in the mirror. 922 01:00:59,120 --> 01:01:01,480 Speaker 3: See it looks to me and again I am pulling 923 01:01:01,560 --> 01:01:05,600 Speaker 3: a fact straight out of my butt. It looks like that. 924 01:01:05,680 --> 01:01:09,200 Speaker 3: It spreads the red dirt around its face to look 925 01:01:09,360 --> 01:01:13,080 Speaker 3: like blood, as if as in I just got finished 926 01:01:13,320 --> 01:01:17,440 Speaker 3: eating some big, bloody animal. Don't mess with me. 927 01:01:18,360 --> 01:01:19,200 Speaker 2: You think that. 928 01:01:19,400 --> 01:01:22,680 Speaker 1: But the thing is, these guys don't get too much 929 01:01:22,800 --> 01:01:26,440 Speaker 1: gore on themselves, given that they eat bones. 930 01:01:27,360 --> 01:01:29,880 Speaker 3: They you know, that's not what they actually do. I'm 931 01:01:29,920 --> 01:01:33,560 Speaker 3: saying that maybe just it's like a it's it's an 932 01:01:33,640 --> 01:01:36,640 Speaker 3: affectation they see they saw like polar bears. They get 933 01:01:36,800 --> 01:01:38,360 Speaker 3: like the blood all over the fer and it looks 934 01:01:38,360 --> 01:01:42,200 Speaker 3: so bad at r yeah yeah. Or it could be 935 01:01:42,400 --> 01:01:43,880 Speaker 3: could look like barbecue sauce. 936 01:01:44,440 --> 01:01:47,760 Speaker 1: Barbecue sauce. I think it's the barbecue sauce because like 937 01:01:48,000 --> 01:01:51,480 Speaker 1: if you know someone's got a good sauce on like that, 938 01:01:51,560 --> 01:01:55,960 Speaker 1: they have a barbecue sauce that's so good that they 939 01:01:56,000 --> 01:01:58,760 Speaker 1: don't feel self conscious about it, dribbling everywhere. 940 01:01:59,360 --> 01:02:00,000 Speaker 2: That's the barber. 941 01:02:00,400 --> 01:02:02,720 Speaker 1: I want to go to w I hang out with 942 01:02:02,760 --> 01:02:05,120 Speaker 1: that guy right, well know war about him? Can you 943 01:02:05,160 --> 01:02:08,800 Speaker 1: imagine being someone who can eat bones whole and be 944 01:02:08,920 --> 01:02:12,760 Speaker 1: at a barbecue. It's like you've got even more ribs 945 01:02:12,800 --> 01:02:18,040 Speaker 1: to enjoy. All right, So onto this week's mystery animal sound. 946 01:02:18,640 --> 01:02:23,720 Speaker 1: The hint is this, This ferocious wild carnivore would eat 947 01:02:23,760 --> 01:02:29,640 Speaker 1: you if only it didn't fit inside your pocket. All right, 948 01:02:29,680 --> 01:02:31,600 Speaker 1: did you hear that little sound? 949 01:02:31,920 --> 01:02:37,160 Speaker 3: So that sounded to me like a little kitten meowing. 950 01:02:37,480 --> 01:02:41,520 Speaker 3: But but because I know how this show runs and 951 01:02:41,560 --> 01:02:45,920 Speaker 3: that it is a labyrinth of lies that is probably 952 01:02:45,960 --> 01:02:48,520 Speaker 3: trying to throw me off, so I'm going to say 953 01:02:49,840 --> 01:02:54,000 Speaker 3: that is a he said it's a predator that can 954 01:02:54,040 --> 01:02:57,040 Speaker 3: fit in your pocket. So I'm gonna say that is 955 01:02:57,120 --> 01:03:02,400 Speaker 3: a South American microgator, the brand of tiny little four 956 01:03:02,440 --> 01:03:04,680 Speaker 3: inch long alligators that live down there. 957 01:03:04,880 --> 01:03:08,280 Speaker 1: Oh man, I wish, oh, I would love that. I 958 01:03:08,840 --> 01:03:13,320 Speaker 1: would break my own rule of one shouldn't keep exotic 959 01:03:13,360 --> 01:03:17,280 Speaker 1: pets if there were microgators that would stay tiny forever. 960 01:03:18,320 --> 01:03:19,800 Speaker 2: Ugh, so cute. 961 01:03:20,520 --> 01:03:23,200 Speaker 3: They're chubby, they're almost round, and they can barely walk 962 01:03:23,800 --> 01:03:25,080 Speaker 3: over the stumpy legs. 963 01:03:25,400 --> 01:03:28,640 Speaker 2: Aw so cute. Ah. 964 01:03:28,680 --> 01:03:32,360 Speaker 1: But yes, that is a great guess. We will find 965 01:03:32,400 --> 01:03:37,280 Speaker 1: out next time on Creature Feature what this little mystery 966 01:03:38,200 --> 01:03:41,240 Speaker 1: muling sound is. Uh. If you think you know you 967 01:03:41,240 --> 01:03:44,040 Speaker 1: can write to me at Creature Featurepod at gmail dot com. 968 01:03:44,080 --> 01:03:47,080 Speaker 1: You can also write to me with questions every so often. 969 01:03:47,160 --> 01:03:50,720 Speaker 1: I have a whole episode dedicated to answering your questions, 970 01:03:51,240 --> 01:03:56,120 Speaker 1: and I also respond to your questions via email. Jason, 971 01:03:56,280 --> 01:03:58,960 Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining me. You got anything 972 01:03:59,040 --> 01:04:02,000 Speaker 1: to promote Slash? Where can people find you? 973 01:04:03,400 --> 01:04:06,640 Speaker 3: A new book is out on October thirty first, twenty 974 01:04:06,720 --> 01:04:09,440 Speaker 3: twenty three. If you are listening to this in the future, 975 01:04:09,560 --> 01:04:13,360 Speaker 3: it's already out. It is called Zoe Is Too Drunk 976 01:04:13,440 --> 01:04:17,120 Speaker 3: for This dystopia part of the Zoe Ash series, available 977 01:04:17,160 --> 01:04:20,800 Speaker 3: in every possible format. If you want to follow me 978 01:04:20,880 --> 01:04:24,720 Speaker 3: on TikTok, I am Jason K. Pargin p r gi 979 01:04:24,920 --> 01:04:29,080 Speaker 3: N on TikTok, but I'm also that on Twitter and 980 01:04:29,160 --> 01:04:34,200 Speaker 3: threads and blue Sky and Instagram and YouTube and several others. 981 01:04:35,880 --> 01:04:38,920 Speaker 1: Thank you guys so much for listening. If you're enjoying 982 01:04:38,920 --> 01:04:41,920 Speaker 1: the show and you leave a rating or review, I 983 01:04:43,720 --> 01:04:46,880 Speaker 1: am just so grateful because they help and I read 984 01:04:46,920 --> 01:04:50,800 Speaker 1: all the reviews and I appreciate all that feedback is 985 01:04:50,840 --> 01:04:55,000 Speaker 1: so good. It feeds me, it nourishes me. And thanks 986 01:04:55,000 --> 01:04:58,480 Speaker 1: to the Space Classics for their super awesome song Exo Lumina. 987 01:04:58,880 --> 01:05:01,080 Speaker 1: Reach Your features a production of iHeart Radio. For more 988 01:05:01,120 --> 01:05:04,720 Speaker 1: podcasts like the ones you just heard, visit the iHeartRadio app, 989 01:05:04,760 --> 01:05:07,640 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or Hey guess what wherever you listen to 990 01:05:07,680 --> 01:05:11,360 Speaker 1: your favorite shows. I don't care. I'm not your mother. 991 01:05:12,240 --> 01:05:13,640 Speaker 1: See you next Wednesday,