1 00:00:03,040 --> 00:00:05,840 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind from how Stuff 2 00:00:05,840 --> 00:00:14,520 Speaker 1: Works dot Com. Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. 3 00:00:14,600 --> 00:00:17,279 Speaker 1: My name is Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick. You know, 4 00:00:17,440 --> 00:00:20,759 Speaker 1: I realized I don't know why exactly this happened, but 5 00:00:20,880 --> 00:00:22,759 Speaker 1: towards in the last couple of months, I feel like 6 00:00:22,800 --> 00:00:26,400 Speaker 1: we have been really focusing on the animal kingdom that 7 00:00:26,520 --> 00:00:29,000 Speaker 1: wasn't by design. I guess we just can't stop with 8 00:00:29,120 --> 00:00:32,240 Speaker 1: the things with legs and blood. Well, I think maybe 9 00:00:32,280 --> 00:00:35,680 Speaker 1: what's happening is that we have, without realizing it, being 10 00:00:35,720 --> 00:00:38,800 Speaker 1: constructing a major and Nativity scene. Okay, and of course 11 00:00:38,800 --> 00:00:41,479 Speaker 1: you have to have your various animals present, and and 12 00:00:41,479 --> 00:00:43,680 Speaker 1: so we've been arranging the animal and I guess others 13 00:00:43,720 --> 00:00:47,839 Speaker 1: bearing gifts of of nursery web spider style wrapped up 14 00:00:47,840 --> 00:00:51,519 Speaker 1: packages of dead insect husks and sticks and stuff. I 15 00:00:51,560 --> 00:00:55,120 Speaker 1: don't know who the shepherds would be. Well, whatever the 16 00:00:55,160 --> 00:00:57,120 Speaker 1: shepherds are, we know that at the heart of the 17 00:00:57,240 --> 00:01:01,280 Speaker 1: of the Nativity you have to have that that baby Jesus. Granted, 18 00:01:01,280 --> 00:01:03,720 Speaker 1: we did an episode last year on the Baby Jesus 19 00:01:03,760 --> 00:01:07,440 Speaker 1: homunculus and that is rerunning this year. But at the 20 00:01:07,440 --> 00:01:10,640 Speaker 1: heart of this story of the Christmas story and Christian 21 00:01:10,680 --> 00:01:13,880 Speaker 1: traditions is the story of a virgin birth. Now, the 22 00:01:13,920 --> 00:01:16,920 Speaker 1: story of a miraculous birth, of course, is very common 23 00:01:17,000 --> 00:01:20,240 Speaker 1: in in mythology and legend around the world. A god 24 00:01:20,360 --> 00:01:23,240 Speaker 1: being the father of a famous or heroic person is 25 00:01:23,280 --> 00:01:26,120 Speaker 1: a very common motif to appear wise settle for an 26 00:01:26,120 --> 00:01:28,839 Speaker 1: earth dad when you can have a cosmic dad. Yeah, 27 00:01:28,880 --> 00:01:31,319 Speaker 1: it's a it's it's a time tested story. Right. You 28 00:01:31,360 --> 00:01:34,399 Speaker 1: have your demigod heroes that are that that have have 29 00:01:34,680 --> 00:01:38,160 Speaker 1: we at least one parent that is of divine lineage. Now, 30 00:01:38,160 --> 00:01:39,520 Speaker 1: before we go any further, I do want to just 31 00:01:39,560 --> 00:01:44,240 Speaker 1: summarize the Christmas story as it's presented in Christmas Christian traditions, 32 00:01:44,280 --> 00:01:47,360 Speaker 1: just really quickly here, so it's probably familiar to a 33 00:01:47,360 --> 00:01:49,880 Speaker 1: lot of you. You have a first century BC woman 34 00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:52,440 Speaker 1: by the name of Mary, and she finds out via 35 00:01:52,520 --> 00:01:55,840 Speaker 1: angelic visitation that she's destined to become a first century 36 00:01:55,920 --> 00:01:59,440 Speaker 1: CE mom, and not in the way she'd plan. No, 37 00:01:59,520 --> 00:02:02,240 Speaker 1: instead of using offspring via relations with her husband Joseph, 38 00:02:02,440 --> 00:02:05,080 Speaker 1: she has been impregnated by the High God. She is 39 00:02:05,120 --> 00:02:07,680 Speaker 1: a virgin, but will give birth to a divine son. 40 00:02:08,720 --> 00:02:12,080 Speaker 1: And like you, said, this is not an anomaly in 41 00:02:12,160 --> 00:02:16,519 Speaker 1: global myths, legends, and religions, we have other stories of 42 00:02:16,680 --> 00:02:19,440 Speaker 1: some sort of miraculous birth taking place, right, And what 43 00:02:19,480 --> 00:02:21,680 Speaker 1: we wanted to focus on today was the fact that 44 00:02:21,760 --> 00:02:24,840 Speaker 1: though this may in fact be some form of miracle 45 00:02:24,919 --> 00:02:26,880 Speaker 1: if it were to actually happen to a human being, 46 00:02:27,400 --> 00:02:30,200 Speaker 1: in other corners of the natural world, stories like this 47 00:02:30,360 --> 00:02:33,880 Speaker 1: are actually not all that miraculous. They in fact happen 48 00:02:33,960 --> 00:02:37,560 Speaker 1: all the time. Right. So today we're gonna be talking 49 00:02:37,600 --> 00:02:42,240 Speaker 1: about parthenogenesis. That is the the scientific term for what's 50 00:02:42,280 --> 00:02:46,440 Speaker 1: occurring here. It's taken from the Greek words parthenos meaning virgin, 51 00:02:46,800 --> 00:02:51,320 Speaker 1: and genesis meaning origin. So this means in the animal world, 52 00:02:52,080 --> 00:02:55,519 Speaker 1: or in the world of sexually reproducing species, a female 53 00:02:55,639 --> 00:03:01,440 Speaker 1: that reproduces without fertilization by male sex cells, right, And 54 00:03:01,560 --> 00:03:05,120 Speaker 1: it occurs pretty commonly among lower plants and invertebrate animals, 55 00:03:05,120 --> 00:03:09,000 Speaker 1: particularly rotifers, a fids, ants, wasps, and bees. I do 56 00:03:09,040 --> 00:03:11,839 Speaker 1: want to hit just two of my favorite examples from 57 00:03:11,840 --> 00:03:15,480 Speaker 1: the invertebrate invertebrate world. First of all, in the termite 58 00:03:15,480 --> 00:03:18,800 Speaker 1: world is pointed out in a two thousand nine research 59 00:03:18,840 --> 00:03:23,240 Speaker 1: paper from North Carolina State University. Certain female termite primary 60 00:03:23,320 --> 00:03:29,320 Speaker 1: queens of the species Radical Attorney's Separatus reproduce both sexually 61 00:03:29,400 --> 00:03:33,399 Speaker 1: and a sexually during their lifetimes, sexually with the male kings, 62 00:03:33,440 --> 00:03:37,960 Speaker 1: and a sexually to essentially clone themselves to create secondary queens. 63 00:03:39,320 --> 00:03:42,400 Speaker 1: And these are the successor queens that will then mate 64 00:03:42,440 --> 00:03:44,320 Speaker 1: with the king, So it's important for them to have 65 00:03:44,400 --> 00:03:48,920 Speaker 1: no genes in common with them. So that's just I think, 66 00:03:48,920 --> 00:03:50,560 Speaker 1: a fun example. All right, Well here you can you 67 00:03:50,600 --> 00:03:53,240 Speaker 1: can clearly see in this picture why it is advantageous 68 00:03:53,400 --> 00:03:58,600 Speaker 1: to use a sexual reproduction alongside sexual reproduction. Of course, 69 00:03:58,640 --> 00:04:02,080 Speaker 1: the greatest benefit of sexual reproduction is that you get 70 00:04:02,080 --> 00:04:04,320 Speaker 1: some variety in there. You don't have the a stagnant 71 00:04:04,320 --> 00:04:07,560 Speaker 1: gene pool right sexual recombination. If you were just making 72 00:04:07,640 --> 00:04:10,320 Speaker 1: copies of your own genes over and over again, it 73 00:04:10,360 --> 00:04:14,480 Speaker 1: becomes much easier for say, parasites to find exploits with 74 00:04:14,600 --> 00:04:18,960 Speaker 1: your body. But if you're constantly randomly recombining your genes 75 00:04:19,000 --> 00:04:21,760 Speaker 1: with other members of your species, then you add some 76 00:04:21,800 --> 00:04:24,359 Speaker 1: diversity to the mix and give yourself more room to 77 00:04:24,800 --> 00:04:28,039 Speaker 1: more genetic wiggle room. It's kind of like say Hollywood 78 00:04:28,080 --> 00:04:31,039 Speaker 1: made the same movie for ten years straight, Like the same, 79 00:04:31,080 --> 00:04:35,600 Speaker 1: say superhero movie, just the same one time after time, 80 00:04:35,760 --> 00:04:38,400 Speaker 1: and it was a really tremendous design. Everyone loved it. 81 00:04:38,440 --> 00:04:40,560 Speaker 1: But then suddenly everyone's decides, you know, not that into 82 00:04:40,560 --> 00:04:44,880 Speaker 1: superhero movies anymore. Bam, an entire decade wasted. Right, that's 83 00:04:44,880 --> 00:04:48,440 Speaker 1: a very loose um explanation, but but that's why you 84 00:04:48,480 --> 00:04:51,080 Speaker 1: get the genre mix up. Throw some zombies in there. No, 85 00:04:51,160 --> 00:04:52,720 Speaker 1: and now you got a whole new thing. Now it's 86 00:04:52,760 --> 00:04:55,800 Speaker 1: fresh again. Yeah, and now people will get into it. Uh. 87 00:04:55,960 --> 00:04:58,919 Speaker 1: Here's another example that I love. This is probably my 88 00:04:59,000 --> 00:05:03,159 Speaker 1: absolute favorite. It's a particular type of Amazonian ant micro 89 00:05:03,320 --> 00:05:07,359 Speaker 1: Capris Smithy, like Alan Smithy speaking films. Uh. This is 90 00:05:07,400 --> 00:05:11,279 Speaker 1: a fungi growing species. It's not unlike the leaf cutter 91 00:05:11,320 --> 00:05:15,200 Speaker 1: aunt and they've actually given up on sexual reproduction altogether 92 00:05:15,440 --> 00:05:18,239 Speaker 1: and have become an all female species. It's a colony 93 00:05:18,240 --> 00:05:20,320 Speaker 1: of clones, so there are a lot more efficient in 94 00:05:20,360 --> 00:05:23,280 Speaker 1: some ways, but they're highly vulnerable due to their lack 95 00:05:23,320 --> 00:05:26,239 Speaker 1: of gene diversity. But they're an example of a species 96 00:05:26,240 --> 00:05:29,719 Speaker 1: that took a reproductive tactic that existed in balance with 97 00:05:29,760 --> 00:05:32,960 Speaker 1: sexual reproduction and eventually made it their own. Means. They're 98 00:05:32,960 --> 00:05:36,240 Speaker 1: only means of reproduction. Now, while this might be more 99 00:05:36,320 --> 00:05:40,080 Speaker 1: common and of course a sexual reproduction is the norm 100 00:05:40,160 --> 00:05:43,200 Speaker 1: amongst a like single celled organism, but while it may 101 00:05:43,200 --> 00:05:46,680 Speaker 1: be more common among invertebrates and these sort of what 102 00:05:46,760 --> 00:05:49,200 Speaker 1: are considered lower order animals, though I don't know if 103 00:05:49,240 --> 00:05:51,880 Speaker 1: it really makes sense to consider them lower or higher. 104 00:05:51,920 --> 00:05:55,240 Speaker 1: What does lower or higher means? But anyway, it is 105 00:05:55,240 --> 00:05:58,080 Speaker 1: going to be more surprising to find something like this 106 00:05:58,600 --> 00:06:03,719 Speaker 1: in vertebrates, which normally would expect to be sexually reproducing animals. 107 00:06:03,760 --> 00:06:07,720 Speaker 1: You've got a backbone, you should be having sex, right, yeah, 108 00:06:07,880 --> 00:06:09,960 Speaker 1: I mean that's why it's such a rarity. Roughly seventy 109 00:06:10,000 --> 00:06:15,400 Speaker 1: backbone species have been known to engage in parthenogenesis or 110 00:06:15,440 --> 00:06:20,640 Speaker 1: exhibit parthenogenesis. That's a roughly point one percent of all vertebrates. Now, 111 00:06:20,680 --> 00:06:24,480 Speaker 1: just a few basic category categories of parthenogenesis before we 112 00:06:24,520 --> 00:06:28,440 Speaker 1: move on to specific examples. Uh, there's accidental. This is 113 00:06:28,480 --> 00:06:32,200 Speaker 1: spontaneous parthenogenesis. Uh, it's not part of the plan, not 114 00:06:32,200 --> 00:06:34,920 Speaker 1: part of the plan, but it does occur. And one 115 00:06:34,960 --> 00:06:38,880 Speaker 1: example we'll see that later is in sharks. There's also facultative. 116 00:06:39,320 --> 00:06:42,040 Speaker 1: This is when a female can produce offspring either sexually 117 00:06:42,200 --> 00:06:46,640 Speaker 1: or via a sexual reproduction. Um, this is a common example, 118 00:06:46,640 --> 00:06:47,920 Speaker 1: but one that we'll look at here in a minute 119 00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:52,359 Speaker 1: is komodo dragons. And then there's obligate Uh, this is 120 00:06:52,480 --> 00:06:55,320 Speaker 1: exclusive a sexual reproduction. That doesn't mean that a given 121 00:06:55,320 --> 00:06:58,800 Speaker 1: species can't use sexual reproduction, but it's certainly not their 122 00:06:58,839 --> 00:07:02,560 Speaker 1: primary means of reproduction. So, you know, think of the 123 00:07:02,720 --> 00:07:05,640 Speaker 1: various invertebrates as an example of this, including the ants 124 00:07:05,640 --> 00:07:09,239 Speaker 1: that I mentioned earlier. Single sex species, yes, especially especially 125 00:07:09,279 --> 00:07:11,360 Speaker 1: single sex species. Well, let's take a look at those 126 00:07:11,400 --> 00:07:15,360 Speaker 1: komodo dragons. Yeah, so the komodo dragon, which is Verona's 127 00:07:15,440 --> 00:07:19,360 Speaker 1: komodo insists, is of course the largest lizard species in 128 00:07:19,400 --> 00:07:21,400 Speaker 1: the world. And Robert, I don't know about you, but 129 00:07:21,480 --> 00:07:23,720 Speaker 1: this was one of my favorite animals when I was 130 00:07:23,760 --> 00:07:26,160 Speaker 1: a kid. I could not get enough of them. I 131 00:07:26,200 --> 00:07:29,200 Speaker 1: love pictures of them. I think I would actually if 132 00:07:29,240 --> 00:07:31,840 Speaker 1: I could get like a national geographic with a picture 133 00:07:31,920 --> 00:07:33,800 Speaker 1: of one, I would cut it out. I seem to 134 00:07:33,800 --> 00:07:36,480 Speaker 1: have some memories of that. Oh yeah, because it's the 135 00:07:36,600 --> 00:07:39,200 Speaker 1: really it's the closest thing you can get to to 136 00:07:39,320 --> 00:07:42,840 Speaker 1: a storybook dinosaur, like not counting not getting into like, 137 00:07:42,880 --> 00:07:46,000 Speaker 1: you know, the the evolution of avian species and all that, 138 00:07:46,320 --> 00:07:48,840 Speaker 1: But just in terms of like, I want a giant 139 00:07:49,000 --> 00:07:52,560 Speaker 1: lizard creature like I see in my children's books. This 140 00:07:52,640 --> 00:07:54,760 Speaker 1: is the closest you're gonna get. So yeah, I remember 141 00:07:54,800 --> 00:07:58,280 Speaker 1: being super into it. I remember being like weirdly excited 142 00:07:58,320 --> 00:08:01,440 Speaker 1: when I think was it Kim not Kim Baysinger, Sharon 143 00:08:01,480 --> 00:08:04,200 Speaker 1: Stone's husband was bitten by one. I just remember being 144 00:08:04,240 --> 00:08:07,960 Speaker 1: in thee and yeah, not to make light of that, 145 00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:10,120 Speaker 1: I mean, I'm thinking that now it's probably horrific, but 146 00:08:10,120 --> 00:08:11,720 Speaker 1: I remember the time it was like, oh my goodness, 147 00:08:11,760 --> 00:08:15,160 Speaker 1: the Komodo dragons are coming after our celebrities, Like there 148 00:08:15,240 --> 00:08:17,880 Speaker 1: was something weirdly exciting about that. And yet at the 149 00:08:17,920 --> 00:08:20,920 Speaker 1: same what if they get Richard Gear. No, not Richard Gear. 150 00:08:21,000 --> 00:08:25,040 Speaker 1: He's a national treasure. But in terms of seeing them 151 00:08:25,040 --> 00:08:28,000 Speaker 1: in zoos, though, this is one of those animals it 152 00:08:28,080 --> 00:08:31,160 Speaker 1: is both impressive and boring to see in most zoos 153 00:08:31,200 --> 00:08:34,600 Speaker 1: because it's a it's a cold boded creature. It's it's 154 00:08:34,640 --> 00:08:36,440 Speaker 1: just going to be sitting there most of the time. 155 00:08:36,920 --> 00:08:42,199 Speaker 1: An impressive organism, but very little movement unless you're lucky. 156 00:08:42,440 --> 00:08:44,960 Speaker 1: At the same time, there's there's some tremendous footage of 157 00:08:45,000 --> 00:08:48,559 Speaker 1: them in the wild. If you've watched any of the 158 00:08:48,559 --> 00:08:52,520 Speaker 1: the BBC Earth documentaries, you've seen some of this footage 159 00:08:52,559 --> 00:08:55,960 Speaker 1: of of the active Komodo dragon. And there's nothing, there's 160 00:08:55,960 --> 00:08:58,440 Speaker 1: nothing more terrifying than watching them, say, move in on 161 00:08:58,559 --> 00:09:02,400 Speaker 1: a on a a vulnar horble cow that is trapped 162 00:09:02,400 --> 00:09:06,880 Speaker 1: in the mud. Have you ever watched them doing acrobatic barfing? Oh, 163 00:09:06,960 --> 00:09:10,360 Speaker 1: they're quite They are quite adept at barfing, aren't they 164 00:09:10,480 --> 00:09:14,040 Speaker 1: unbelievable barfing? Like there, I've seen footage of them barfing 165 00:09:14,200 --> 00:09:16,920 Speaker 1: where it looks like they barf up more than their 166 00:09:16,960 --> 00:09:21,480 Speaker 1: own body mass. They are also Remember one of the 167 00:09:21,480 --> 00:09:25,760 Speaker 1: notable things about them is that they will sling intestines 168 00:09:25,800 --> 00:09:28,360 Speaker 1: around to remove the fecal matter from them so they 169 00:09:28,360 --> 00:09:30,960 Speaker 1: can eat the intestines. Okay, I don't think i've read that, 170 00:09:30,960 --> 00:09:33,839 Speaker 1: but I think maybe i've heard you mentioned that before. Yeah, yeah, 171 00:09:33,920 --> 00:09:37,200 Speaker 1: they're they're voracious eaters. So the young commodo dragons have 172 00:09:37,200 --> 00:09:38,719 Speaker 1: to hide from the adults so they don't get eating. 173 00:09:38,720 --> 00:09:41,600 Speaker 1: I believe they climb trees, and of course the grown 174 00:09:41,640 --> 00:09:43,880 Speaker 1: ups cannot really go after them. Yes, they can be 175 00:09:43,960 --> 00:09:47,640 Speaker 1: quite aggressive, even to one another. So this species. They 176 00:09:47,640 --> 00:09:50,040 Speaker 1: live on a number of islands in Indonesia, and as 177 00:09:50,080 --> 00:09:52,559 Speaker 1: adults they get huge. They can grow up to about 178 00:09:52,600 --> 00:09:55,440 Speaker 1: three meters or tin feet in length. Actually, I think 179 00:09:55,480 --> 00:09:58,920 Speaker 1: the UH the largest one ever I read was even 180 00:09:58,920 --> 00:10:01,079 Speaker 1: bigger than that. It was like tin point three feet 181 00:10:01,120 --> 00:10:03,079 Speaker 1: in length, and they can weigh over a hundred and 182 00:10:03,120 --> 00:10:06,280 Speaker 1: thirty kg or about three hundred pounds. Again, I think 183 00:10:06,440 --> 00:10:09,559 Speaker 1: I read that the biggest one ever measured was something 184 00:10:09,559 --> 00:10:14,080 Speaker 1: like three hundred and sixty pounds. They are venomous. They 185 00:10:14,120 --> 00:10:18,000 Speaker 1: deliver a bite that prevents the praise blood from clotting. However, 186 00:10:18,120 --> 00:10:21,480 Speaker 1: they do not primarily hunt live prey, because the majority 187 00:10:21,520 --> 00:10:24,760 Speaker 1: of their diet from scavenging dead or dying animals, though 188 00:10:24,760 --> 00:10:27,480 Speaker 1: of course they do also hunt, and when they hunt 189 00:10:27,520 --> 00:10:30,360 Speaker 1: live prey. Those prey species can be all kinds of things, 190 00:10:30,679 --> 00:10:33,040 Speaker 1: mainly dear, I think dear is the biggest one, but 191 00:10:33,120 --> 00:10:38,199 Speaker 1: also bovines, pigs, rodents, monkeys, goats, and they have on occasion, 192 00:10:38,360 --> 00:10:41,080 Speaker 1: as we said, attacked and killed humans. But this does 193 00:10:41,120 --> 00:10:45,400 Speaker 1: not make them our enemy. These are magnificent scaly beasts, 194 00:10:45,480 --> 00:10:49,520 Speaker 1: and they themselves are threatened in conservation status terms, you know, 195 00:10:49,600 --> 00:10:52,719 Speaker 1: like you got the UH the i u c N classifications, 196 00:10:52,760 --> 00:10:56,040 Speaker 1: they are not yet considered endangered, but they are considered 197 00:10:56,120 --> 00:10:59,640 Speaker 1: vulnerable according to the w WF. They're only about six 198 00:10:59,679 --> 00:11:03,520 Speaker 1: thousand and left on Earth and only about three fifty 199 00:11:03,640 --> 00:11:07,600 Speaker 1: breeding females, and for that reason there are these conservation 200 00:11:07,679 --> 00:11:10,680 Speaker 1: and captivity breeding efforts going on around the world. But 201 00:11:10,920 --> 00:11:13,960 Speaker 1: so I want to tell a komodo dragon story. In 202 00:11:14,000 --> 00:11:17,880 Speaker 1: two thousand five, a female komodo dragon named Sung Guy 203 00:11:18,280 --> 00:11:21,440 Speaker 1: was living at the London Zoo and that year she 204 00:11:21,640 --> 00:11:24,880 Speaker 1: produced a clutch of twenty two eggs, four of which 205 00:11:24,880 --> 00:11:28,760 Speaker 1: were viable. But there was a problem. It had been 206 00:11:28,800 --> 00:11:31,719 Speaker 1: two and a half years since Sung Guy had been 207 00:11:31,760 --> 00:11:35,280 Speaker 1: anywhere near a male komodo dragon, so in order in 208 00:11:35,400 --> 00:11:38,120 Speaker 1: order to explain her laying these eggs, it would seem 209 00:11:38,200 --> 00:11:42,400 Speaker 1: she either had to somehow store sperm from a male 210 00:11:42,600 --> 00:11:46,560 Speaker 1: for over two years, which is technically possible sometimes in 211 00:11:46,600 --> 00:11:50,960 Speaker 1: reptiles there are like sperm storage methods that sometimes happen, 212 00:11:51,920 --> 00:11:56,360 Speaker 1: or she had performed parthenogenesis and her eggs hatch seven 213 00:11:56,400 --> 00:11:58,319 Speaker 1: and a half months after she laid them, and her 214 00:11:58,360 --> 00:12:02,040 Speaker 1: offspring seemed healthy. Uh. In two thousand six, a female 215 00:12:02,080 --> 00:12:06,240 Speaker 1: komodo dragon named Flora was living at the Chester Zoo 216 00:12:06,360 --> 00:12:08,680 Speaker 1: in the UK, and she was at the time one 217 00:12:08,720 --> 00:12:11,960 Speaker 1: of only two sexually mature female komotos in the whole 218 00:12:12,000 --> 00:12:14,679 Speaker 1: continent of Europe. As I said, you know, many zoos 219 00:12:14,679 --> 00:12:17,560 Speaker 1: around the world do these komodo dragon breeding programs to 220 00:12:17,640 --> 00:12:20,280 Speaker 1: try to help get the numbers back up, and at 221 00:12:20,280 --> 00:12:23,080 Speaker 1: the time Flora had not been breeding. In fact, she 222 00:12:23,200 --> 00:12:26,040 Speaker 1: had never even once been kept in an enclosure with 223 00:12:26,040 --> 00:12:29,840 Speaker 1: a male. Nevertheless, in two thousand six she produced a 224 00:12:29,840 --> 00:12:33,400 Speaker 1: clutch of twenty five eggs and eleven seemed viable at first. 225 00:12:33,920 --> 00:12:37,439 Speaker 1: So what could explain this? I mean, you have to wonder, 226 00:12:37,559 --> 00:12:40,800 Speaker 1: was there like a male komodo dragon running loose in England, 227 00:12:40,960 --> 00:12:45,080 Speaker 1: secretly getting into the pins when nobody's watching. And if 228 00:12:45,120 --> 00:12:48,360 Speaker 1: we do entertain that possibility, we have to name that 229 00:12:48,440 --> 00:12:52,000 Speaker 1: English komodo dragon. What was his name? Oh, I don't know, 230 00:12:52,360 --> 00:12:56,640 Speaker 1: a rogue English komodo dragon. Uh, that'd be Rupert, right, 231 00:12:56,800 --> 00:12:59,079 Speaker 1: Rupert May or maybe kind of it's kind of a 232 00:12:59,160 --> 00:13:02,360 Speaker 1: Robin Hood type figure. It could be a Komoto Hood. 233 00:13:02,600 --> 00:13:08,480 Speaker 1: Robin Koma's not Clive, He's Clive, Okay, So Clive? Did 234 00:13:08,480 --> 00:13:11,560 Speaker 1: Clive get in there or did something else happen. Turns 235 00:13:11,559 --> 00:13:14,440 Speaker 1: out it was not clive. So there was a paper 236 00:13:14,440 --> 00:13:20,559 Speaker 1: published in Nature in two thousand and six by Watts, Bully, Sanderson, Boardman, CPI, 237 00:13:20,679 --> 00:13:24,840 Speaker 1: and Gibson called parthenogenesis and Komodo Dragons, and the authors 238 00:13:24,880 --> 00:13:29,559 Speaker 1: here performed genetic fingerprinting tests on the eggs of these dragons, 239 00:13:29,880 --> 00:13:32,760 Speaker 1: and they found that in both cases the offspring were 240 00:13:33,000 --> 00:13:36,880 Speaker 1: what are known as parthenogens, which are made entirely out 241 00:13:36,920 --> 00:13:41,000 Speaker 1: of their own mother's DNA, rather than through sexual recombination 242 00:13:41,040 --> 00:13:43,640 Speaker 1: with a mail. And in the case of Flora, this 243 00:13:43,840 --> 00:13:46,800 Speaker 1: was true virgin birth. But in both cases they had 244 00:13:46,880 --> 00:13:49,840 Speaker 1: created baby komodo dragons without the help of a mail. 245 00:13:50,640 --> 00:13:53,520 Speaker 1: So the author's note that the offspring were homozy guess 246 00:13:53,520 --> 00:13:56,840 Speaker 1: at all loci on on their genome, but that they 247 00:13:56,840 --> 00:14:00,560 Speaker 1: were not identical clones of their mothers. So how would 248 00:14:00,559 --> 00:14:02,920 Speaker 1: that work? Well, you've got to think about what happens 249 00:14:03,000 --> 00:14:06,560 Speaker 1: in sexual recombination of an animal like this. So the 250 00:14:06,679 --> 00:14:10,680 Speaker 1: mother contributes half of her genome and the father contributes 251 00:14:10,720 --> 00:14:13,800 Speaker 1: half of his genome, and they combine to produce a 252 00:14:13,840 --> 00:14:15,920 Speaker 1: mix of the two. And in this case the mother 253 00:14:16,080 --> 00:14:19,680 Speaker 1: still only contributed half of her genome. So in order 254 00:14:19,720 --> 00:14:22,440 Speaker 1: to produce an entire genome in the offspring without any 255 00:14:22,480 --> 00:14:27,680 Speaker 1: mail input, the mother's half set of chromosome simply doubled itself. 256 00:14:28,000 --> 00:14:30,600 Speaker 1: So the offspring are not clones of the mother, their 257 00:14:30,640 --> 00:14:34,520 Speaker 1: homozygous at all loci. So everywhere you look on their genome, 258 00:14:34,520 --> 00:14:37,720 Speaker 1: there's a double copy of the same allele, all made 259 00:14:37,760 --> 00:14:40,880 Speaker 1: from half of the mother's genes. But so, how does 260 00:14:40,960 --> 00:14:42,800 Speaker 1: this happen? You know, I was wondering, what are the 261 00:14:42,840 --> 00:14:45,560 Speaker 1: actual mechanics here? Uh, there's a there's a pretty good 262 00:14:45,560 --> 00:14:48,240 Speaker 1: summary in a Scientific American article from the time by 263 00:14:48,240 --> 00:14:51,840 Speaker 1: Philip y am Uh and yam rights quote. Evidently, in 264 00:14:51,840 --> 00:14:54,520 Speaker 1: the case of these komotos, the doubling of the egg 265 00:14:54,600 --> 00:14:59,360 Speaker 1: genes occurred when, in essence, another egg, rather than sperm, 266 00:14:59,560 --> 00:15:04,080 Speaker 1: did the job of fertilization. Oh genesis, the biological process 267 00:15:04,120 --> 00:15:09,000 Speaker 1: of making an egg cell typically also yields a polar body, 268 00:15:09,560 --> 00:15:13,000 Speaker 1: a mini ovum of sorts containing a duplicate copy of 269 00:15:13,080 --> 00:15:17,360 Speaker 1: egg d NA. Normally, this polar body shrivels up and disappears. 270 00:15:17,680 --> 00:15:20,960 Speaker 1: In the case of the komodos, though, polar bodies evidently 271 00:15:21,000 --> 00:15:25,880 Speaker 1: acted as sperm and turned over into embryos. So it's 272 00:15:25,920 --> 00:15:28,600 Speaker 1: like the eggs cell had a little copy of itself 273 00:15:28,640 --> 00:15:31,040 Speaker 1: there with it that would normally shrivel up and go away, 274 00:15:31,320 --> 00:15:34,920 Speaker 1: but instead it pretended it was sperm and then fertilized 275 00:15:34,960 --> 00:15:40,760 Speaker 1: its own copy another thing. After producing some offspring parthenogenically, 276 00:15:41,200 --> 00:15:44,320 Speaker 1: the one Komodo dragon, Sun Guy went on to produce 277 00:15:44,360 --> 00:15:47,160 Speaker 1: a normal clutch of eggs with a male named Raja. 278 00:15:47,480 --> 00:15:51,320 Speaker 1: So the researchers also concluded that parthenogenesis is not a 279 00:15:51,360 --> 00:15:55,560 Speaker 1: fixed reproductive trait that lasts forever. In the Komodo dragons, 280 00:15:55,600 --> 00:15:58,400 Speaker 1: you can go back and forth. So, in fact, the 281 00:15:58,440 --> 00:16:00,800 Speaker 1: findings suggests that this is probably probably a form of 282 00:16:00,880 --> 00:16:06,200 Speaker 1: reproductive plasticity. It's the ability to switch between sexual reproduction 283 00:16:06,280 --> 00:16:11,120 Speaker 1: and asexual reproduction when mates are not available. Amazing. Yeah, 284 00:16:11,160 --> 00:16:12,720 Speaker 1: I mean you can see why this would be a 285 00:16:12,760 --> 00:16:16,120 Speaker 1: tremendous survival advantage. I mean, in particular, when you have 286 00:16:16,400 --> 00:16:19,920 Speaker 1: a case where a female is not exposed to males 287 00:16:19,960 --> 00:16:22,760 Speaker 1: at all for an extended period of time and yet 288 00:16:23,000 --> 00:16:26,800 Speaker 1: is capable of producing viable eggs. Like if there's no 289 00:16:26,840 --> 00:16:29,400 Speaker 1: mail around this, this show still has to start one 290 00:16:29,400 --> 00:16:31,480 Speaker 1: way or another. Yeah, Now there are some reasons you 291 00:16:31,560 --> 00:16:34,400 Speaker 1: might think that there are genetic drawbacks to that. In fact, 292 00:16:34,480 --> 00:16:36,800 Speaker 1: the author is right that there is a downside to 293 00:16:36,880 --> 00:16:41,960 Speaker 1: this discovery. Quote, parthenogenesis presents a previously unrecognized problem for 294 00:16:42,000 --> 00:16:46,440 Speaker 1: the genetic management of threatened populations. Why would this be well, 295 00:16:46,800 --> 00:16:50,880 Speaker 1: in captive breeding programs designed to help commodo dragons build 296 00:16:50,880 --> 00:16:55,120 Speaker 1: their numbers back up, females are often kept isolated from males, 297 00:16:55,240 --> 00:16:58,160 Speaker 1: and males are only brought in occasionally for the obvious 298 00:16:58,200 --> 00:17:01,080 Speaker 1: reason there are good sense to do it like this, 299 00:17:01,200 --> 00:17:03,960 Speaker 1: like sometimes these animals are aggressive toward one another, and 300 00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:06,920 Speaker 1: you don't want them unnecessarily fighting or injuring one another, 301 00:17:07,480 --> 00:17:10,159 Speaker 1: that kind of thing. But this means that if you 302 00:17:10,240 --> 00:17:13,880 Speaker 1: keep females in all female environments with no mates, they 303 00:17:13,960 --> 00:17:18,560 Speaker 1: may spontaneously give birth to parthenogens. Now what's wrong with that? 304 00:17:18,640 --> 00:17:22,639 Speaker 1: Why Why wouldn't that just help increase their numbers even more? Well, 305 00:17:22,720 --> 00:17:26,600 Speaker 1: it doesn't quite work like that. The problem is parthenogenesis 306 00:17:26,640 --> 00:17:30,359 Speaker 1: reduces the fitness of the komodo dragon gene pool. The 307 00:17:30,400 --> 00:17:36,479 Speaker 1: author's right quote oppressing concern with parthenogenesis is instantaneous homozygosity 308 00:17:36,480 --> 00:17:40,600 Speaker 1: of the entire genome, as this inbreeding carries an associated 309 00:17:40,720 --> 00:17:45,800 Speaker 1: risk of reduced fitness and an increased probability of extinction. Uh. 310 00:17:45,800 --> 00:17:48,880 Speaker 1: And then there's another problem with the parthenogenesis, and it's 311 00:17:48,920 --> 00:17:53,080 Speaker 1: that it biases the sex ratio of the offspring. Uh. 312 00:17:53,160 --> 00:17:57,960 Speaker 1: The author's right quote. In Verona species, females have dissimilar 313 00:17:58,040 --> 00:18:01,840 Speaker 1: chromosomes Z and double you sort of like human chromosomes 314 00:18:01,840 --> 00:18:05,800 Speaker 1: sex chromosomes X and Y, uh, continuing with their quote. 315 00:18:06,000 --> 00:18:10,760 Speaker 1: Whereas the combination Z Z produces males, so the parthenogenic 316 00:18:10,840 --> 00:18:16,200 Speaker 1: mechanism can produce only homozygous ZZ or w W individuals 317 00:18:16,240 --> 00:18:21,120 Speaker 1: and therefore no females. So the parthenogenesis in the Komodo dragons, 318 00:18:21,160 --> 00:18:23,720 Speaker 1: because of the way their sex cells work, they can 319 00:18:23,800 --> 00:18:27,639 Speaker 1: only make male offspring. Uh. It's sort of the opposite 320 00:18:27,640 --> 00:18:30,320 Speaker 1: of the way like human sex chromosomes work, that males 321 00:18:30,400 --> 00:18:34,280 Speaker 1: have an x Y chromosome and females in humans have 322 00:18:34,320 --> 00:18:37,239 Speaker 1: an x X chromosome. In the dragons, it's the other 323 00:18:37,280 --> 00:18:41,679 Speaker 1: way around. The males have the same two sex chromosomes 324 00:18:41,680 --> 00:18:43,919 Speaker 1: and the females have the two different sex chromosomes. If 325 00:18:43,960 --> 00:18:46,119 Speaker 1: you can only make a duplicate copy, you can only 326 00:18:46,160 --> 00:18:48,760 Speaker 1: make new male dragons. Yeah, and this is important to 327 00:18:48,800 --> 00:18:50,480 Speaker 1: keep in mind as we move forward, because we're going 328 00:18:50,560 --> 00:18:55,000 Speaker 1: to see, um, you know, the exact chromosome. All situation 329 00:18:55,160 --> 00:18:57,239 Speaker 1: is going to play into what kind of offspring are 330 00:18:57,280 --> 00:19:03,199 Speaker 1: produced by a given species density for parthenogenesis. Yes, so 331 00:19:03,240 --> 00:19:05,840 Speaker 1: back to that question about whether this is uh, this 332 00:19:05,920 --> 00:19:08,000 Speaker 1: is useful in the wild. It does seem like it's 333 00:19:08,040 --> 00:19:11,199 Speaker 1: probably an adaptation right for the reason you mentioned earlier. 334 00:19:11,560 --> 00:19:16,560 Speaker 1: Assume a wild female Kommoto dragon finds herself isolated on 335 00:19:16,600 --> 00:19:19,320 Speaker 1: an island environment. Maybe she gets washed up somewhere after 336 00:19:19,359 --> 00:19:24,240 Speaker 1: a storm. She could help her genes survive by parthenogenetically 337 00:19:24,359 --> 00:19:27,639 Speaker 1: producing a clutch of males with which to mate and 338 00:19:27,800 --> 00:19:31,520 Speaker 1: establish a new colony genetically. This is not ideal, but 339 00:19:31,640 --> 00:19:35,000 Speaker 1: it's better than nothing, But it's not good for the 340 00:19:35,080 --> 00:19:38,720 Speaker 1: dragon populations that are you know, trying to be sustained 341 00:19:38,800 --> 00:19:42,119 Speaker 1: right now, for the females to be laying clutches exclusively 342 00:19:42,359 --> 00:19:46,040 Speaker 1: of essentially inbred males. This may be better than nothing 343 00:19:46,119 --> 00:19:48,159 Speaker 1: in the wild when there are no males present, like 344 00:19:48,200 --> 00:19:51,119 Speaker 1: we said, but it actually interferes with the breeding programs 345 00:19:51,160 --> 00:19:55,480 Speaker 1: that conservationists are using to help like replenish the species. 346 00:19:56,119 --> 00:19:58,800 Speaker 1: So this leads to the idea that hey, maybe we 347 00:19:58,840 --> 00:20:02,159 Speaker 1: should be careful about keeping female dragons in isolation in 348 00:20:02,240 --> 00:20:05,320 Speaker 1: captivity because when there's no mail around, this can happen 349 00:20:05,680 --> 00:20:08,520 Speaker 1: and it's not actually what's best for the species if 350 00:20:08,560 --> 00:20:11,000 Speaker 1: we can help it. Yeah, that's fascinating because it's easy 351 00:20:11,080 --> 00:20:12,840 Speaker 1: to just on the surface of things think, yeah, I 352 00:20:12,880 --> 00:20:16,360 Speaker 1: go way to go. Commoto dragons just reproduce whether there's 353 00:20:16,359 --> 00:20:18,200 Speaker 1: a mail around or not. But well, it is better 354 00:20:18,200 --> 00:20:20,760 Speaker 1: than nothing probably. I mean, if there literally is no 355 00:20:20,880 --> 00:20:24,080 Speaker 1: mail to reproduce with, this makes sense to do. But 356 00:20:24,119 --> 00:20:26,280 Speaker 1: the problem is in these cases it's not actually that 357 00:20:26,359 --> 00:20:28,520 Speaker 1: there's no male, it's just there's no mail right now. 358 00:20:29,280 --> 00:20:31,439 Speaker 1: And by the way, it does appear that other female 359 00:20:31,480 --> 00:20:35,439 Speaker 1: Commodo dragons in captivity have shown this same same phenomenon 360 00:20:36,119 --> 00:20:39,320 Speaker 1: since the initial batch of observations. For example, it was 361 00:20:39,359 --> 00:20:42,879 Speaker 1: reported in two thousand and eight that healthy male dragons 362 00:20:42,920 --> 00:20:46,400 Speaker 1: hatched at the Sedgewick County Zoo in Wichita, Kansas from 363 00:20:46,400 --> 00:20:48,320 Speaker 1: a female who had not made it with a male. 364 00:20:48,960 --> 00:20:51,639 Speaker 1: But Commodo dragons are certainly not the only reptiles that 365 00:20:51,720 --> 00:20:56,760 Speaker 1: exhibit parthenogenesis. Some lizards are even obligate parthenogens that you 366 00:20:56,760 --> 00:20:59,159 Speaker 1: mentioned earlier, the ones that have no choice, like the 367 00:20:59,280 --> 00:21:02,640 Speaker 1: hybrid new male Mexico whiptail lizard. Uh, this is an 368 00:21:02,680 --> 00:21:07,360 Speaker 1: all female species and there's no sexual reproduction whatsoever. Or well, actually, 369 00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:10,400 Speaker 1: what is true is that there is no sexual fertilization 370 00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:14,160 Speaker 1: there uh, because in fact, these lizards have been observed 371 00:21:14,400 --> 00:21:17,800 Speaker 1: to perform a series of same sex female courtship and 372 00:21:17,840 --> 00:21:21,000 Speaker 1: mating rituals, the biological function of which is an interesting 373 00:21:21,040 --> 00:21:23,840 Speaker 1: subject that we could return to in the future. Uh. 374 00:21:23,880 --> 00:21:25,840 Speaker 1: And I guess it's just a reminder that even in 375 00:21:25,880 --> 00:21:28,639 Speaker 1: the animal world, the fact that you don't have to 376 00:21:28,680 --> 00:21:32,240 Speaker 1: have sexual fertilization doesn't mean that there's not sexual behavior. 377 00:21:32,280 --> 00:21:33,640 Speaker 1: All right. On that note, we're gonna take a quick 378 00:21:33,680 --> 00:21:35,919 Speaker 1: break and we come back. We'll get into another reptilian 379 00:21:35,960 --> 00:21:42,800 Speaker 1: species that exhibits virgin birth. Thank alright, we're back. So 380 00:21:42,920 --> 00:21:46,520 Speaker 1: we've been talking about komodo dragons. We mentioned lizards reptiles 381 00:21:46,520 --> 00:21:51,040 Speaker 1: that exhibit parthenogenesis. Snakes are another great source of examples 382 00:21:51,240 --> 00:21:54,720 Speaker 1: of parthenogenesis. There is at least one species of snake 383 00:21:55,040 --> 00:21:58,560 Speaker 1: called Indo tie flops brahminus, also known as the Brahminy 384 00:21:58,680 --> 00:22:02,880 Speaker 1: blind snake, which appears to be an obligate parthenogen. It's 385 00:22:02,920 --> 00:22:05,560 Speaker 1: a burrowing blind snake, so you'll find it, you know, 386 00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:09,320 Speaker 1: down underneath the soil and rotten wood and leaf litter 387 00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:12,240 Speaker 1: and stuff like that. It's found naturally in parts of 388 00:22:12,280 --> 00:22:15,400 Speaker 1: Africa and Asia, though it has been introduced in other places, 389 00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:17,720 Speaker 1: and as far as we know, all members of this 390 00:22:17,800 --> 00:22:22,080 Speaker 1: species are female and they reproduce completely without sex. However, 391 00:22:22,440 --> 00:22:25,400 Speaker 1: plenty of other snake species have been shown to exhibit 392 00:22:25,480 --> 00:22:29,280 Speaker 1: facultative parthenogenesis, like the Komodo dragons. It appears to be 393 00:22:29,320 --> 00:22:33,040 Speaker 1: some kind of adaptation. Now, apparently, for a while this 394 00:22:33,119 --> 00:22:36,920 Speaker 1: had only been observed in captive snakes that we're living in, 395 00:22:37,080 --> 00:22:39,520 Speaker 1: you know, in tanks or in zoos or something like that, 396 00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:43,320 Speaker 1: so it was believed to be some sort of captive syndrome. 397 00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:47,720 Speaker 1: But more recently it appears that facultative parthenogenesis has been 398 00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:51,199 Speaker 1: observed in wild snakes, sometimes even when males are present. 399 00:22:52,080 --> 00:22:57,120 Speaker 1: Just to cite one example by Booth, Smith, Eskridge, Hass, Mendelssohn, 400 00:22:57,160 --> 00:23:02,400 Speaker 1: and Shoit, facultative parthenogenesis discovered in wild vertebrates in Biology 401 00:23:02,440 --> 00:23:05,760 Speaker 1: Letters in two thousand and twelve. These researchers used quote 402 00:23:05,800 --> 00:23:11,520 Speaker 1: micro satellite DNA genotyping and litter characteristics to determine that 403 00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:16,000 Speaker 1: there was evidence of facultative parthenergenesis in snakes in the 404 00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:19,959 Speaker 1: wild in populations of wild North American pit viper snakes 405 00:23:19,960 --> 00:23:23,199 Speaker 1: like the copper head and the cotton mouth. So the 406 00:23:23,240 --> 00:23:26,960 Speaker 1: world may may yet be full of a sexually reproducing 407 00:23:27,119 --> 00:23:30,240 Speaker 1: copper head queens. Well, that's amazing. Now we've so far 408 00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:33,800 Speaker 1: we've talked about two different reptile species. It's I think 409 00:23:33,800 --> 00:23:36,320 Speaker 1: it's time to move on to the birds, and not 410 00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:39,000 Speaker 1: just any bird, but a bird that we've discussed a 411 00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:41,880 Speaker 1: fair amount on stuff to blow your mind, especially given 412 00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:44,440 Speaker 1: that we've never devoted and have we devoted an entire 413 00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:47,480 Speaker 1: episode to them before? Did we do an episode on 414 00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:51,440 Speaker 1: the turkey? No, I think we've mostly talked about turkeys 415 00:23:51,440 --> 00:23:55,560 Speaker 1: in the context of Benjamin Franklin and electrocuting them. Yes. Yeah, 416 00:23:55,600 --> 00:23:57,600 Speaker 1: I think that's the main reason they keep coming up, 417 00:23:57,720 --> 00:24:01,000 Speaker 1: So that's come up more than once. Yeah, Well, we're 418 00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:04,639 Speaker 1: bringing up turkeys again because parthenogenesis has been observed in 419 00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:08,880 Speaker 1: several bird species, though it usually results in non viable 420 00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:13,760 Speaker 1: embryos that never become adults, and the turkey is one 421 00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:18,359 Speaker 1: of the one of them. Reports of turkeys exhibiting virgin births. 422 00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:20,920 Speaker 1: These begin to roll in, especially in the eighteen hundreds, 423 00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:22,879 Speaker 1: and it received a fair amount of attention in the 424 00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:28,880 Speaker 1: decades to follow. Breeders were particularly interested because potential pitfalls aside, 425 00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:31,919 Speaker 1: and we've discussed what those those are regarding, you know, 426 00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:34,760 Speaker 1: stagnant gene pools and all the idea. They really like 427 00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:38,080 Speaker 1: the idea of one prize turkey creating another prize turkey 428 00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:41,520 Speaker 1: without mightying the genetics horror. Yeah, but you know, we 429 00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:44,520 Speaker 1: we're talking about the poultry industry here, so the shadowy 430 00:24:44,560 --> 00:24:48,520 Speaker 1: mechanical priests of poultry science. So according to studies in 431 00:24:48,560 --> 00:24:52,960 Speaker 1: the seventies and nineties, in particular, thirty two tot of 432 00:24:53,040 --> 00:24:57,080 Speaker 1: infertile eggs may initiate development, but most embryos die at 433 00:24:57,119 --> 00:25:00,520 Speaker 1: an early stage. Parthener genesis has also been observed in 434 00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:04,919 Speaker 1: domestic hens, Chinese painted quails, and the zebra finch. For 435 00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:08,280 Speaker 1: the turkey, however, it's only going to result in a 436 00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:12,879 Speaker 1: viable offspring in extreme situations, and when it does result 437 00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:16,560 Speaker 1: in an actual hatchling, the turkey is always male due 438 00:25:16,560 --> 00:25:20,919 Speaker 1: to sex chromo chromosome dominance. Now I was looking around 439 00:25:20,920 --> 00:25:23,760 Speaker 1: for some more information about this, and I realized, well, 440 00:25:24,040 --> 00:25:27,200 Speaker 1: the best place to look is probably the world of 441 00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:30,520 Speaker 1: of of Agricultural sciences and animal sciences. And indeed I 442 00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:34,520 Speaker 1: found a wonderful overview of this from Thomas F. Savage, PhD, 443 00:25:34,560 --> 00:25:37,880 Speaker 1: Professor and head advisor at the Department of Animal Sciences, 444 00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:42,399 Speaker 1: Oregon State University in Corvallis, and he points out that 445 00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:46,560 Speaker 1: the parthenogenesis and turkeys, it all comes down to environmental 446 00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:49,960 Speaker 1: and genetic factors. So, first of all, the environmental factors 447 00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:53,200 Speaker 1: that the outlines here age, he says, there's a higher 448 00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:56,080 Speaker 1: rate in younger hens, and then and then there's also 449 00:25:56,240 --> 00:26:00,600 Speaker 1: a viral influence here, there's an increased occurrent and turkey 450 00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:07,040 Speaker 1: hens exposed to certain diseases such as Newcastle disease, foul pox, etcetera. Also, 451 00:26:07,359 --> 00:26:10,160 Speaker 1: it can be affected by what you're feeding them. There 452 00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:14,719 Speaker 1: are certain additives used to enhance reproductive efficiency that can 453 00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:21,840 Speaker 1: stimulate parthenogenic development, specifically the yeast culture UH sacro mices 454 00:26:22,119 --> 00:26:27,040 Speaker 1: sera visa. And then also inactivated or I radiated sperm. 455 00:26:27,320 --> 00:26:30,280 Speaker 1: In experiments, they found that if they if they had 456 00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:33,199 Speaker 1: this irradiated sperm, it was unable to contribute genetically, but 457 00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:37,520 Speaker 1: it could lead to a higher rate of parthenogenesis. Oh, 458 00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:41,720 Speaker 1: because it could like um stimulate the egg to start dividing, 459 00:26:41,760 --> 00:26:44,760 Speaker 1: but it wouldn't actually provide genetic material. Yeah, that's my 460 00:26:44,840 --> 00:26:48,960 Speaker 1: understanding of it. Also, temperature, even elevated pre incubation edge 461 00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:51,879 Speaker 1: egg storage temperatures can play play a role and in 462 00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:53,840 Speaker 1: all these you know, and we're talking about increasing the 463 00:26:54,119 --> 00:26:58,560 Speaker 1: likelihood of it occurring, not necessarily like a trigger switch exactly. 464 00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:02,920 Speaker 1: And then their genetic aspects as well. Uh, some genetic 465 00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:06,120 Speaker 1: strains just have a predisposition for it, and you can 466 00:27:06,240 --> 00:27:09,399 Speaker 1: actually increase the chances via genetic selection. And this was 467 00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:13,400 Speaker 1: proved out in a nineteen five study by this guy Olsen, 468 00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:16,600 Speaker 1: who when you look at he's the turkey parthener genesis. 469 00:27:16,840 --> 00:27:18,800 Speaker 1: Yeah he is. It's like it's you look at who 470 00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:20,800 Speaker 1: has done research about it, and it'll be you know, 471 00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:25,800 Speaker 1: various names and then like like twenty something different search 472 00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:28,760 Speaker 1: results for this awesome guy. All right, so that's turkeys 473 00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:31,399 Speaker 1: and uh and imagined some of you out there listening 474 00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:33,760 Speaker 1: to this podcast have some experience with turkeys or at 475 00:27:33,840 --> 00:27:36,880 Speaker 1: least hens um. Maybe you can write in and tell 476 00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:40,119 Speaker 1: us give us your take. On Parthener genesis in the 477 00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:44,080 Speaker 1: Turkey world. Now, not to downplay the dangers of turkeys, 478 00:27:44,119 --> 00:27:45,640 Speaker 1: but I think we should go to a little bit 479 00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:50,280 Speaker 1: of a wilder territory. Can you give me a thrill ride, Robert. Yeah, 480 00:27:50,320 --> 00:27:54,080 Speaker 1: let's talk about parthener genesis in sharks. And also we'll 481 00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:56,720 Speaker 1: get into raise a little bit. Uh. This is actually 482 00:27:56,760 --> 00:28:00,000 Speaker 1: I believe this is a topic that that Mara hart Um, 483 00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:02,120 Speaker 1: who wrote Sex in the Sea, touched on a little 484 00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:04,719 Speaker 1: bit when she appeared on the program in the past. Uh. 485 00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:07,199 Speaker 1: And I'm certainly going to cite her book Sex in 486 00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:09,520 Speaker 1: the c because it is a tremendous book about uh, 487 00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:14,000 Speaker 1: the wild world of reproduction in in Earth's oceans. But yes, 488 00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:16,919 Speaker 1: as it happens, sharks have been observed to engage in 489 00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:22,080 Speaker 1: facultative parthenogenesis. It's it's not obligatory, and it creates offspring 490 00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:25,600 Speaker 1: genetically distinct from the mother or sibling species, so these 491 00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:28,760 Speaker 1: are not outright clones. Uh. This was first observed in 492 00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:32,320 Speaker 1: sharks back in two thousand seven when Uh, studied by 493 00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:35,760 Speaker 1: a Chapman at All, conducted tests on bonnet head sharks 494 00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:39,440 Speaker 1: born in captivity. Um. The female in this Listnari had 495 00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:42,479 Speaker 1: been isolated for from males for more than three years, 496 00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:44,440 Speaker 1: and there was so and it turned out that they 497 00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:47,120 Speaker 1: were able to produce without any male DNA. Also, in 498 00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:49,920 Speaker 1: two thousand seven, Chapman and his team found evidence of 499 00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:53,960 Speaker 1: parthenogenesis in female black tip sharks. These in captivity for 500 00:28:54,120 --> 00:28:57,560 Speaker 1: nine years without access to males, and a female black 501 00:28:57,600 --> 00:29:00,440 Speaker 1: tip what happened is it died in captivity with a 502 00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:04,960 Speaker 1: near term embryo inside it. Zebra sharks and white spotted 503 00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:08,719 Speaker 1: sharks shark cases have also been confirmed UH and UH. 504 00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:11,400 Speaker 1: Chapman and his team have also found genetic evidence for 505 00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:15,360 Speaker 1: hammerhead virgin birth as well. So the ability seems like 506 00:29:15,400 --> 00:29:18,400 Speaker 1: it might be pretty common actually, from big sharks to 507 00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:21,240 Speaker 1: a little sharks, from egg layers to lie birthers. But 508 00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:23,320 Speaker 1: does it happen in the wild or is it just 509 00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:25,720 Speaker 1: something that occurs in captivity? This is in this we're 510 00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:28,680 Speaker 1: encountering a similar situation that we have with the study 511 00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:31,360 Speaker 1: of commodo dragons, like is this is this something that 512 00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:34,000 Speaker 1: is actually occurring in the wild, and if so, how 513 00:29:34,040 --> 00:29:36,840 Speaker 1: can we study it? It's actually pretty hard to study 514 00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:39,240 Speaker 1: in the wild, though, because to do so you really 515 00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:41,440 Speaker 1: need to look at the DNA of of the mother. 516 00:29:41,520 --> 00:29:43,560 Speaker 1: You need to look at the DNA of the offspring. 517 00:29:43,880 --> 00:29:46,800 Speaker 1: And the thing about shark uh, the world of shark 518 00:29:46,880 --> 00:29:51,200 Speaker 1: parents is that they're pretty much donezo after the birth. 519 00:29:51,280 --> 00:29:53,680 Speaker 1: You know, the the parents are not going to hang 520 00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:59,120 Speaker 1: around and look after the baby. Sharks not big into nurturing, right, Yeah. Now, 521 00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:03,080 Speaker 1: Chapman and other re searchers, they have found examples of 522 00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:07,520 Speaker 1: parthenogenesis in the critically endangered small tooth sawfish, which is 523 00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:10,640 Speaker 1: threatened by over fishing and the loss of mangrove habitats. 524 00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:13,160 Speaker 1: Now it's technically a ray, it's not a shark, but 525 00:30:13,240 --> 00:30:15,360 Speaker 1: it winds up in shark fin soup a lot. According 526 00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:18,160 Speaker 1: to mar j Hart in her book Sex and the Sea, 527 00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:21,920 Speaker 1: this uh, this creature's population has declined, she says, more 528 00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:27,960 Speaker 1: than since the nineteen sixties. Now, meanwhile, we have Dr 529 00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:31,520 Speaker 1: Jim gel Sliter who has conducted test using an ultrasound 530 00:30:31,560 --> 00:30:35,360 Speaker 1: one which which he described he himself describes as looking 531 00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:38,440 Speaker 1: like a Ghostbusters proton pack. It's a pretty expensive piece 532 00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:41,040 Speaker 1: of equipment. But the but that's how they can bring 533 00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:43,120 Speaker 1: it out of the field, because it's quite a production 534 00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:44,440 Speaker 1: they have to go through here, they have to they 535 00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:46,400 Speaker 1: have to catch the ray, they have to keep invited 536 00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:48,360 Speaker 1: by the side of the boat, and then they have 537 00:30:48,520 --> 00:30:51,520 Speaker 1: to uh, you know, use the wand on it to 538 00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:55,280 Speaker 1: see what's going on inside it. Um. What do they 539 00:30:55,280 --> 00:30:57,560 Speaker 1: find with that wand? Well, the thing is that they 540 00:30:57,560 --> 00:31:02,800 Speaker 1: have confirmed parthenogenesis. Uh. Now uh, it's a There are 541 00:31:02,800 --> 00:31:04,640 Speaker 1: a couple of things that should know here. One is 542 00:31:04,680 --> 00:31:09,440 Speaker 1: that investigations regarding sharks and rays they can be complicated 543 00:31:09,440 --> 00:31:14,160 Speaker 1: for the same reason that like the commodo dragon situation 544 00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:17,560 Speaker 1: is complicated uh, in that you have to ask yourself, 545 00:31:17,560 --> 00:31:20,520 Speaker 1: well are they storing sperm from a previous encounter um 546 00:31:20,640 --> 00:31:22,720 Speaker 1: and And that can sometimes be the case with sharks 547 00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:26,160 Speaker 1: and rays um. But in the case of the sawfish, 548 00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:29,280 Speaker 1: this is an example where this amazing adaptation could prove 549 00:31:29,360 --> 00:31:31,560 Speaker 1: vital and helping them bounce back from the brink of 550 00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:35,120 Speaker 1: extinction while new protections are in place, because there at 551 00:31:35,120 --> 00:31:38,560 Speaker 1: a point now where again they're threatened by by overfishing 552 00:31:38,560 --> 00:31:41,320 Speaker 1: and habitat loss, but certain legal protections that have been 553 00:31:41,320 --> 00:31:45,080 Speaker 1: put in place, and so parthenogenesis could be the tool 554 00:31:45,160 --> 00:31:48,720 Speaker 1: that helps them reach a sustainable level while those protections 555 00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:52,600 Speaker 1: are in place. However, over the generations it's you know, 556 00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:55,840 Speaker 1: likely gonna uh you know, a negatively impact the species 557 00:31:55,880 --> 00:31:58,200 Speaker 1: hopes for survival as well. So again it's that's that's 558 00:31:58,200 --> 00:32:01,320 Speaker 1: similar scenario with the komodo dragon. It's better than nothing, 559 00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:05,480 Speaker 1: but it is also potentially genetically devastating. So the reasons 560 00:32:05,480 --> 00:32:08,479 Speaker 1: would be what that it limits genetic diversity essentially it's 561 00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:11,600 Speaker 1: similar to inbreeding, and that it produces sex bias in 562 00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:14,680 Speaker 1: the offspring. In this case, they would be almost always 563 00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:18,720 Speaker 1: female offspring. Yes, I believe so, the I mean think 564 00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:20,440 Speaker 1: of it, It would just be it would be terrible 565 00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:23,720 Speaker 1: when your your species bounces back from the brink of 566 00:32:23,720 --> 00:32:26,640 Speaker 1: of of extermination and you're able to do so via 567 00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:30,760 Speaker 1: this miraculous virgin birth, but then some sort of disease 568 00:32:30,800 --> 00:32:32,720 Speaker 1: just wipes all of you out because you lack the 569 00:32:32,720 --> 00:32:36,080 Speaker 1: genetic diversity to survive it. And this is actually outside 570 00:32:36,080 --> 00:32:37,920 Speaker 1: of the world of partheno genesis. This is something that 571 00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:41,200 Speaker 1: is encountered to in efforts to restore certain species to 572 00:32:41,240 --> 00:32:45,440 Speaker 1: the wild, Like if a population becomes uh too shallow, 573 00:32:46,040 --> 00:32:48,440 Speaker 1: then you know you're you're not going to have the 574 00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:52,240 Speaker 1: genetic diversity to really um have a have has a 575 00:32:52,360 --> 00:32:55,840 Speaker 1: robust a genetic presence for the species. Yeah, but when 576 00:32:55,880 --> 00:32:58,240 Speaker 1: you're when you're that low as a species, you're you're 577 00:32:58,240 --> 00:33:01,040 Speaker 1: in a tough situation anyway. So best of luck to 578 00:33:01,080 --> 00:33:03,400 Speaker 1: the parthenogens. All right, we want that note. We're gonna 579 00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:05,600 Speaker 1: take one more break when we come back. We're gonna 580 00:33:05,640 --> 00:33:12,640 Speaker 1: ask the question, what about parthenogenesis in mammals than alright, 581 00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:17,320 Speaker 1: we're back. So we've been discussing parthenogenesis in sharks and 582 00:33:17,520 --> 00:33:21,840 Speaker 1: reptiles and birds. Uh. One thing that is certainly true 583 00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:24,920 Speaker 1: is that you're going to find way fewer examples of 584 00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:27,880 Speaker 1: this in mammals. In fact, if what I've read is correct, 585 00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:33,720 Speaker 1: there are no known wild examples of parthenogenesis in mammals. 586 00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:38,520 Speaker 1: There have been examples that have been induced under synthetic 587 00:33:38,680 --> 00:33:41,880 Speaker 1: lab conditions, but we've never found an example out in 588 00:33:41,920 --> 00:33:44,680 Speaker 1: the world that's correct. That's that's what I was finding 589 00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:48,800 Speaker 1: as well. Um, the really the only uh, the million 590 00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:52,160 Speaker 1: examples that we run across our ones in human created 591 00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:56,240 Speaker 1: uh myths and legends and religious stories. So I was 592 00:33:56,320 --> 00:34:00,720 Speaker 1: reading an article titled parthenogenesis, Birth of a new lineage 593 00:34:00,840 --> 00:34:05,080 Speaker 1: or Reproductive accident by Casper J. Vander Koo from the 594 00:34:05,160 --> 00:34:10,240 Speaker 1: University of Groningen and Tanja Schwander, and this was published 595 00:34:10,280 --> 00:34:13,240 Speaker 1: in Current Biology in two thousand fifteen. And the authors 596 00:34:13,400 --> 00:34:17,440 Speaker 1: they make an interesting choice, an entertaining choice in directly 597 00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:20,360 Speaker 1: approaching the birth of Jesus Christ. Oh yeah, that's a 598 00:34:20,440 --> 00:34:24,440 Speaker 1: dangerous move. And Algy I was I was hesitant to 599 00:34:24,640 --> 00:34:28,879 Speaker 1: incorporate too much Nativity story into this episode, but then 600 00:34:29,200 --> 00:34:32,520 Speaker 1: the scientists did it, so I can only follow them. 601 00:34:32,680 --> 00:34:36,000 Speaker 1: In fact, I want to read a quote from this paper. Quote. 602 00:34:36,120 --> 00:34:40,000 Speaker 1: This reference to parthenogenesis, and by this reference is referring 603 00:34:40,080 --> 00:34:44,440 Speaker 1: to the Nativity story is unusual in two ways. First, 604 00:34:44,640 --> 00:34:48,480 Speaker 1: it is the only account of quote unquote natural parthenogenesis 605 00:34:48,520 --> 00:34:51,800 Speaker 1: in a mammal. Mammals are believed to be completely unable 606 00:34:51,840 --> 00:34:55,120 Speaker 1: to report to reproduce via parthenogenesis because of a number 607 00:34:55,120 --> 00:34:59,160 Speaker 1: of developmental and genetic constraints. Second, while the blessed Virgin 608 00:34:59,200 --> 00:35:02,799 Speaker 1: Mary might have been able to conceive a daughter via parthenogenesis, 609 00:35:02,840 --> 00:35:06,080 Speaker 1: the conception of a son is highly unlikely, as male 610 00:35:06,160 --> 00:35:10,359 Speaker 1: sex and humans is determined by genes on the Y chromosome. Mary, 611 00:35:10,520 --> 00:35:13,640 Speaker 1: as a woman, could not have transmitted any hy chromosomes 612 00:35:13,640 --> 00:35:17,799 Speaker 1: to her offspring. In contrast to humans, parthenogenetic production of 613 00:35:17,880 --> 00:35:22,799 Speaker 1: sons is expected in species with other types of sex determination. Yeah, 614 00:35:22,840 --> 00:35:25,520 Speaker 1: so that's dealing with the opposite of the komodo dragons 615 00:35:25,520 --> 00:35:28,200 Speaker 1: issue we talked about earlier. Right now, I have to 616 00:35:28,239 --> 00:35:31,560 Speaker 1: say it. I can't help but think of certain late 617 00:35:31,640 --> 00:35:37,080 Speaker 1: medieval traditions in which Christ is illustrated or described in 618 00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:41,160 Speaker 1: terms of feminine qualities. Um. And then this is based 619 00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:43,120 Speaker 1: in the idea that it's, you know, to an expression 620 00:35:43,120 --> 00:35:46,239 Speaker 1: of the feminine characteristics of Christ nature, and of course 621 00:35:46,280 --> 00:35:48,600 Speaker 1: has nothing to do with genetics or even any sort 622 00:35:48,640 --> 00:35:53,520 Speaker 1: of egalitarian ideal. But yet I can't help but think 623 00:35:53,520 --> 00:35:56,600 Speaker 1: about that. And when we're thinking about well, uh, yes, 624 00:35:56,680 --> 00:36:00,840 Speaker 1: Mary could have genetically speaking, had this virgin offspring, but 625 00:36:00,880 --> 00:36:02,560 Speaker 1: it would have had to have been a female. Now 626 00:36:02,600 --> 00:36:04,759 Speaker 1: I assume that they are just having a little bit 627 00:36:04,760 --> 00:36:08,279 Speaker 1: of fun with the subject. They're not like trying to say, 628 00:36:08,320 --> 00:36:11,360 Speaker 1: how can we explain the story of Jesus birth. Let's 629 00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:14,239 Speaker 1: try to go to the science of parthenogenesis. I feel 630 00:36:14,280 --> 00:36:16,520 Speaker 1: it's kind of like, uh, in the same way that 631 00:36:16,560 --> 00:36:19,640 Speaker 1: we talked about papers about hemorrhoids. They feel that they 632 00:36:19,920 --> 00:36:22,960 Speaker 1: just have to mention the the the the ark of 633 00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:24,560 Speaker 1: the Covenant, just because you can get a little bit 634 00:36:24,560 --> 00:36:26,600 Speaker 1: of Bible flavoring in there. It's kind of hard to 635 00:36:26,640 --> 00:36:31,000 Speaker 1: resist incorporating this, the story of the birth of the 636 00:36:31,080 --> 00:36:35,759 Speaker 1: Christ Child into your paper on genetics and parthenogenesis. Yes, 637 00:36:35,800 --> 00:36:38,520 Speaker 1: I can certainly imagine that temptation. But so so they're 638 00:36:38,560 --> 00:36:41,319 Speaker 1: not actually saying, this story is a historical record and 639 00:36:41,360 --> 00:36:44,919 Speaker 1: we're going to explain how it happened biologic correct um. 640 00:36:45,239 --> 00:36:46,960 Speaker 1: So you know, they point out a lot of what 641 00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:50,040 Speaker 1: we've been talking about already. That male producing parthener genesis 642 00:36:50,160 --> 00:36:54,360 Speaker 1: is rare, female producing parthenogenesis is widespread and mostly obligate, 643 00:36:54,680 --> 00:36:58,080 Speaker 1: though only a few examples invertebrates, and there are no 644 00:36:58,280 --> 00:37:00,960 Speaker 1: examples among mammals. And then is this whole issue with 645 00:37:01,280 --> 00:37:04,520 Speaker 1: the female or the or the male offspring? They say 646 00:37:04,560 --> 00:37:07,719 Speaker 1: that accidental parthenogenesis is the method that can produce male 647 00:37:07,760 --> 00:37:10,440 Speaker 1: offspring due to the way that the chromosomes come together. 648 00:37:11,200 --> 00:37:14,320 Speaker 1: But that quote, the developmental and genetic constraints in humans 649 00:37:14,320 --> 00:37:17,080 Speaker 1: and other mammals would most likely prevent the emergence of 650 00:37:17,120 --> 00:37:21,279 Speaker 1: adaptive parthenogenesis in natural populations. Well, I do think it's 651 00:37:21,320 --> 00:37:26,480 Speaker 1: interesting they say, most likely. I wonder exactly how unlikely, 652 00:37:26,560 --> 00:37:30,920 Speaker 1: it is, so could parthenogenesis in in mammals like humans? 653 00:37:31,440 --> 00:37:35,920 Speaker 1: Is that essentially impossible or just so unlikely we wouldn't 654 00:37:35,920 --> 00:37:38,399 Speaker 1: expect to see it? Well and true? And then also 655 00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:40,279 Speaker 1: the question is like what kind of time frame we're 656 00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:43,680 Speaker 1: talking about. Are we talking about tomorrow, our next year 657 00:37:43,760 --> 00:37:46,360 Speaker 1: or hundred years from now? Are we looking at at 658 00:37:46,480 --> 00:37:49,719 Speaker 1: at a longer history for our species? Wouldn't expect to 659 00:37:49,760 --> 00:37:53,080 Speaker 1: see it over a population of X number? Right, But 660 00:37:53,120 --> 00:37:56,680 Speaker 1: then again, it's we're going beyond mere humans here, right, 661 00:37:56,680 --> 00:37:59,480 Speaker 1: we're talking about mammals in general. And so if we 662 00:37:59,560 --> 00:38:04,200 Speaker 1: have no examples from the mammalian world, uh that that 663 00:38:04,200 --> 00:38:07,520 Speaker 1: that have presented themselves or have survived to present themselves 664 00:38:07,880 --> 00:38:10,920 Speaker 1: uh to scientists today, then it does it does make 665 00:38:10,920 --> 00:38:14,279 Speaker 1: you wonder how many mammals other than humans could there be? 666 00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:17,720 Speaker 1: What you've got, dogs, you got rats, Uh, that's about 667 00:38:17,719 --> 00:38:20,239 Speaker 1: it in there, well, all the all the bat species. 668 00:38:20,280 --> 00:38:23,240 Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, you have considerable member species 669 00:38:23,320 --> 00:38:25,360 Speaker 1: to consider here, but yeah, there if none of them 670 00:38:25,400 --> 00:38:29,040 Speaker 1: are presenting an example of partheno genesis, then um, I 671 00:38:29,040 --> 00:38:32,280 Speaker 1: don't know, it seems like a pretty safe bed alright. 672 00:38:32,360 --> 00:38:36,640 Speaker 1: So there you have it, parthenogenesis, virgin birth, a little 673 00:38:36,640 --> 00:38:39,160 Speaker 1: bit of holiday full air thrown in there. Uh, And 674 00:38:39,239 --> 00:38:42,480 Speaker 1: I think just the big take home is that, as always, 675 00:38:42,520 --> 00:38:45,800 Speaker 1: when we're looking at something that is miraculous to humans, 676 00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:48,719 Speaker 1: take it out to the animal world, and generally you're 677 00:38:48,719 --> 00:38:51,719 Speaker 1: gonna find that it's actually no big deal. There's there's 678 00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:54,800 Speaker 1: much weirder stuff going on, and plenty of if examples 679 00:38:54,800 --> 00:38:58,920 Speaker 1: of virgin birth going on. Uh, certainly in the invertebrate world, 680 00:38:58,920 --> 00:39:00,880 Speaker 1: but then also in the verse of your world as well. 681 00:39:00,920 --> 00:39:04,319 Speaker 1: It tends to remain the case that no myth, no 682 00:39:04,640 --> 00:39:08,560 Speaker 1: magical story, no monster movie, no sci fi special can 683 00:39:08,600 --> 00:39:11,759 Speaker 1: come up with anything as weird as nature. All right, 684 00:39:11,880 --> 00:39:13,799 Speaker 1: So hey, as always, if you want to check out 685 00:39:13,800 --> 00:39:15,719 Speaker 1: more episodes of Stuff to Blow your Mind, head out 686 00:39:15,719 --> 00:39:18,080 Speaker 1: and over to stuff to Blow your Mind dot com. 687 00:39:18,160 --> 00:39:20,440 Speaker 1: That is our website. That it's where you will find 688 00:39:20,840 --> 00:39:22,799 Speaker 1: all of the episodes. You'll find links out to our 689 00:39:22,840 --> 00:39:25,400 Speaker 1: social media accounts. You'll find a tab for our store. 690 00:39:25,760 --> 00:39:27,920 Speaker 1: We can go check out some cool designs, get him 691 00:39:27,960 --> 00:39:30,040 Speaker 1: on stickers, shirts, et cetera. It's a cool way to 692 00:39:30,080 --> 00:39:32,680 Speaker 1: support the show. And if you want to support the 693 00:39:32,680 --> 00:39:34,280 Speaker 1: show in a way that doesn't cost you any money. 694 00:39:34,280 --> 00:39:37,080 Speaker 1: Simply rate and review us wherever you have the power 695 00:39:37,120 --> 00:39:40,719 Speaker 1: to do so, and hey, check out Invention. Invention is 696 00:39:40,800 --> 00:39:43,000 Speaker 1: the new podcast that we've launched. If you like stuff 697 00:39:43,000 --> 00:39:45,279 Speaker 1: to blow your mind, you're gonna love Invention as well. 698 00:39:45,640 --> 00:39:49,600 Speaker 1: It publishes every Monday, and in each episode, Joe and 699 00:39:49,640 --> 00:39:54,520 Speaker 1: I look at a different invention, a different revolution in 700 00:39:54,520 --> 00:39:57,560 Speaker 1: in uh in technology, where it came from, how it 701 00:39:57,640 --> 00:40:00,319 Speaker 1: came about, and how it's changed the world forever. You 702 00:40:00,320 --> 00:40:02,880 Speaker 1: can find that wherever you get your podcasts. If you 703 00:40:02,960 --> 00:40:06,799 Speaker 1: search for Invention Invention podcasts, you put in our names. 704 00:40:06,840 --> 00:40:08,319 Speaker 1: You might even might want to throw in something like 705 00:40:08,320 --> 00:40:11,479 Speaker 1: our names or throwing an iHeart Media, etcetera. iHeart Radio 706 00:40:11,520 --> 00:40:13,799 Speaker 1: and see if that helps the search results. But you 707 00:40:13,800 --> 00:40:17,560 Speaker 1: can also find everything about it at invention pod dot com. 708 00:40:17,760 --> 00:40:21,520 Speaker 1: Big thanks as always to our excellent audio producers Alex 709 00:40:21,560 --> 00:40:24,440 Speaker 1: Williams and Torii Harrison. If you would like to get 710 00:40:24,480 --> 00:40:27,200 Speaker 1: in touch with us directly with feedback on this episode 711 00:40:27,320 --> 00:40:30,160 Speaker 1: or any other, to let us know a topic you'd 712 00:40:30,200 --> 00:40:31,920 Speaker 1: like us to cover in the future, or just to 713 00:40:31,960 --> 00:40:34,720 Speaker 1: say hi, you can email us at blow the Mind 714 00:40:34,800 --> 00:40:46,000 Speaker 1: at how stuff works dot com for more on this 715 00:40:46,200 --> 00:40:48,680 Speaker 1: and thousands of other topics. Is it how stuff works? 716 00:40:48,719 --> 00:41:08,560 Speaker 1: Dot com Don't Busy pointed to part F