WEBVTT - Episode 20: Joe Mayo 0:00:00.400 --> 0:00:02.400 The guys from Ping. They've kind of showed me how 0:00:02.480 --> 0:00:05.120 much the equipment matters. I just love that I can 0:00:05.200 --> 0:00:06.600 hit any shot I kind of want. 0:00:06.720 --> 0:00:08.520 We're gonna be able to tell some fun stories about 0:00:08.520 --> 0:00:10.640 what goes on here to help golfers play better golf. 0:00:11.400 --> 0:00:13.880 Welcome back to the Pink Proving Grounds Podcast. 0:00:13.920 --> 0:00:14.760 I'm Shane Bacon. 0:00:14.840 --> 0:00:18.640 That is Marty Jertsen, who apparently maybe just got a haircut, 0:00:18.720 --> 0:00:20.200 looks really high and tight right now. 0:00:20.239 --> 0:00:23.640 My friend who summertime in Phoenix been been rough Shane, 0:00:23.720 --> 0:00:25.560 So yeah, you gotta keep it short in the summertime. 0:00:25.640 --> 0:00:27.840 No reason to be messing with it. We got exciting 0:00:27.880 --> 0:00:28.520 guests today. 0:00:28.720 --> 0:00:31.880 A man that is also in a worn climate right now, 0:00:32.000 --> 0:00:37.000 Joseph Mayo joining us, instructor of an instructor for discovery 0:00:37.040 --> 0:00:40.559 properties based out of the summit in Las Vegas. And 0:00:41.440 --> 0:00:44.879 another of a person much smarter than I am. So Joseph, 0:00:44.920 --> 0:00:46.800 we appreciate you taking a little. 0:00:46.600 --> 0:00:47.160 Bit of time. 0:00:47.680 --> 0:00:51.720 And I was reading that you saw a track man 0:00:52.360 --> 0:00:55.200 for the first time and it kind of opened up 0:00:55.240 --> 0:00:57.920 your brain to this new world and that's how you 0:00:57.960 --> 0:01:00.360 got back into golf. Can you take us back to 0:01:00.400 --> 0:01:03.080 that moment when you first saw track Man and how 0:01:03.200 --> 0:01:05.640 it kind of opened up this world that is now 0:01:05.680 --> 0:01:06.280 your life. 0:01:06.440 --> 0:01:09.080 Absolutely, and first of all, thank you guys for having me. 0:01:09.120 --> 0:01:12.880 I appreciate it. I got out of golf and around 0:01:12.959 --> 0:01:16.800 two thousand because I was so frustrated that, you know, 0:01:16.840 --> 0:01:18.760 there was no way to measure anything, there was no 0:01:18.840 --> 0:01:22.000 way to answer questions, there was no way to validate anything. 0:01:22.319 --> 0:01:25.280 And I got out of golf and I thought nothing 0:01:25.319 --> 0:01:27.640 of it. I never thought that I would be a 0:01:27.640 --> 0:01:30.319 part of golf again. And I can't remember exactly where 0:01:30.360 --> 0:01:33.280 we were, but my father was a cancer patient, still is, 0:01:33.720 --> 0:01:36.200 and we were in a physicians off at some point 0:01:36.560 --> 0:01:39.119 and I picked up some type of a golfing magazine, 0:01:39.160 --> 0:01:42.319 don't remember what it was, and I heard about TrackMan 0:01:42.400 --> 0:01:45.240 to Opper Radar, and that really really made me go, Wow, 0:01:45.760 --> 0:01:49.680 maybe this is what I've been looking for. There was 0:01:49.720 --> 0:01:53.040 a doctor and a caesiologist here in Las Vegas that 0:01:53.560 --> 0:01:57.120 knew me and liked me, and he believed in my abilities. 0:01:57.160 --> 0:01:59.840 I don't know why, but he did. And he said, hey, 0:02:00.240 --> 0:02:02.000 let's get a track Man. I'm like, wow, sure, let's 0:02:02.040 --> 0:02:03.600 go ahead and do that. I've got five hundred bucks 0:02:03.600 --> 0:02:06.160 in my checking account, so let's go ahead and get one. 0:02:07.200 --> 0:02:10.160 There were twenty six thousand dollars and we got that thing. 0:02:11.040 --> 0:02:13.680 And you know, at that time, there are no there's 0:02:13.720 --> 0:02:16.560 no Internet forums, there's no user's manual. I mean, you're 0:02:16.600 --> 0:02:19.440 on your own. It's sink or swim. So I just 0:02:19.480 --> 0:02:22.600 plopped that bad boy down and I just let everybody 0:02:22.680 --> 0:02:24.840 come hit shots for me. And I started seeing all 0:02:24.840 --> 0:02:29.520 these patterns and began putting together ball flight, if you will. 0:02:30.360 --> 0:02:33.720 And I started to notice that, you know, no disrespect 0:02:33.760 --> 0:02:36.240 to those of the past, but I began to see 0:02:37.360 --> 0:02:40.360 that what we believe to be true was not true. 0:02:41.080 --> 0:02:43.600 And the golf ball did not start on the club path. 0:02:43.680 --> 0:02:45.799 It started, you know, as you guys know, basically where 0:02:45.840 --> 0:02:47.840 the face is pointed, not one hundred percent, but basically. 0:02:48.320 --> 0:02:51.880 And I took that and I started putting videos on 0:02:51.919 --> 0:02:57.240 the internet, I don't know, twenty ten and some people 0:02:57.280 --> 0:03:01.040 saw those videos. Brant Waite, you guys know, PJ tour 0:03:01.120 --> 0:03:04.040 player saw it, and we developed a friendship and literally 0:03:04.440 --> 0:03:05.600 it changed my life. 0:03:06.000 --> 0:03:08.600 Joe, I think you're kind of like a pioneer. You're 0:03:08.639 --> 0:03:11.359 you're you're the early adopter of track man using three D. 0:03:12.840 --> 0:03:15.000 You know, I think I'm a PJ of America member. 0:03:15.120 --> 0:03:17.200 Now I know the PGA of America knows that they 0:03:17.240 --> 0:03:19.600 had to they have to level up their ballfly laws, 0:03:19.639 --> 0:03:22.720 so to speak, and everything that was taught there. You've 0:03:22.960 --> 0:03:26.680 influenced a lot of folks in using you know, kind 0:03:26.720 --> 0:03:29.040 of bringing in three D problem solving. You know, you've 0:03:29.080 --> 0:03:32.120 kind of taken that scientific method and applied it to golf. 0:03:32.240 --> 0:03:34.200 I think that's one of the things you've inspired so 0:03:34.280 --> 0:03:37.960 many not only helped so many golfers, but inspired a 0:03:37.960 --> 0:03:40.760 lot of golf teachers to open their eyes to that. 0:03:41.280 --> 0:03:43.560 So I feel like you've reached a lot of folks. 0:03:44.160 --> 0:03:46.960 Who were some of the other teachers. I know you 0:03:47.080 --> 0:03:48.920 just talked about figuring out a lot of this on 0:03:48.920 --> 0:03:51.680 your own because there was no instruction, Manuel, But who 0:03:51.680 --> 0:03:55.600 are some of the teachers, PhDs, academics, whoever, Because you 0:03:55.640 --> 0:03:57.320 have not been afraid to, you know, reach out and 0:03:57.320 --> 0:03:59.120 make a phone call and ask questions. That's what I 0:03:59.160 --> 0:04:02.040 love about you. Who are some of those folks that 0:04:02.080 --> 0:04:04.440 have helped you along this journey level up your knowledge? 0:04:04.760 --> 0:04:06.800 That is a great question. I have bugged you guys 0:04:06.800 --> 0:04:08.840 at ping As you know, for the last ten years 0:04:10.200 --> 0:04:14.240 you have been an invaluable resource. Paul would I just 0:04:14.320 --> 0:04:16.599 I called Paul to hear his accent. You know, I 0:04:16.600 --> 0:04:19.800 don't really care what he says. I want that sexy 0:04:19.839 --> 0:04:24.880 accent that he's got. Eric Hemrinson there of course also 0:04:25.040 --> 0:04:28.200 doctor Soshil Mackenzie. I have bugged the daylights out of him, 0:04:28.480 --> 0:04:32.600 Doctor Young hou Kwan down in Dallas, Texas. I've bugged 0:04:32.640 --> 0:04:36.279 him about biomechanics as well. And I'm sure I'm leaving 0:04:36.360 --> 0:04:39.160 others out, But I don't ever want to make it 0:04:39.240 --> 0:04:41.800 sound like I did this on my own, because that 0:04:42.160 --> 0:04:44.800 is absolutely not true. And you guys at ping have 0:04:44.839 --> 0:04:47.640 been an invaluable resource and I really appreciate your help 0:04:47.680 --> 0:04:48.840 and support over the last ten years. 0:04:49.040 --> 0:04:52.159 Joe, I was interested in something you said. You said 0:04:52.720 --> 0:04:56.280 when you started to dive into TrackMan numbers, everything that 0:04:56.360 --> 0:04:58.359 had been kind of thought about in terms of the 0:04:58.400 --> 0:05:03.520 golf swing was either incorrect or maybe misevaluated, or maybe 0:05:03.560 --> 0:05:04.719 it was just simply wrong. 0:05:05.320 --> 0:05:06.599 What was wrong. 0:05:06.440 --> 0:05:09.560 About the way we thought about the way golfers hit it, 0:05:09.880 --> 0:05:13.239 pros hit it, and what have you changed in terms 0:05:13.240 --> 0:05:15.359 of the minds of some of the people in and 0:05:15.400 --> 0:05:18.880 around golf instructors, professional golfers that you feel like is 0:05:18.960 --> 0:05:23.479 now something everybody agrees on or believes that, well, believe. 0:05:23.160 --> 0:05:25.640 It or not. I don't think we still have a consensus. 0:05:26.720 --> 0:05:29.960 People will still send me screenshots of people on the internet, 0:05:30.160 --> 0:05:32.040 you know, saying hit down to make it go up, 0:05:32.080 --> 0:05:35.520 which we know is that's silly. That doesn't happen. The 0:05:35.560 --> 0:05:38.600 ball starts on the club path, which we know that 0:05:38.640 --> 0:05:42.320 doesn't happen except in very very specific cases. And I 0:05:42.360 --> 0:05:44.159 don't think it still starts on the path. It might 0:05:44.279 --> 0:05:46.279 become fifty to fifty or fifty five to forty five, 0:05:46.320 --> 0:05:50.760 but without question, the number one ball flight issue was 0:05:51.279 --> 0:05:54.560 the golf ball starts where the path of the club 0:05:54.720 --> 0:05:57.920 is and it curves towards the face, and that is 0:05:58.120 --> 0:06:00.279 dead wrong. As we know, that's absolutely backward. Which it 0:06:00.279 --> 0:06:03.120 starts basically where the face is pointed, and it actually 0:06:03.160 --> 0:06:05.720 curves away from the club path assuming your face hit. 0:06:06.960 --> 0:06:11.360 And I think one of the biggest revelations of track 0:06:11.400 --> 0:06:14.239 Man for the masses, and it should be the biggest revelation, 0:06:14.440 --> 0:06:17.920 is how the angle of attack, the angle of attack 0:06:18.000 --> 0:06:22.840 can be judge, jury and executioner. And I remember, oh 0:06:22.880 --> 0:06:25.360 my god, twelve years ago this is twenty twenty three. 0:06:25.440 --> 0:06:29.200 Right guys. Twelve years ago minimum when I did a 0:06:29.279 --> 0:06:32.320 video where I said, if your angle of attack changes 0:06:32.400 --> 0:06:35.560 from down of you know, I eat iron to driver 0:06:36.360 --> 0:06:39.560 and you're trying to hit the same shot, you cannot 0:06:39.640 --> 0:06:43.320 be aimed in the same place. Yes, when you start 0:06:43.400 --> 0:06:47.360 thinking of the three dimensional aspect of ballflight, the three 0:06:47.360 --> 0:06:50.360 dimensional aspect of the club movement. You know, we've been 0:06:50.360 --> 0:06:52.360 told for one hundred years that you got to have 0:06:52.480 --> 0:06:55.400 good grip, good stance, good posture, but you got to 0:06:55.440 --> 0:06:58.800 have good alignment. And I don't know what good alignment 0:06:58.960 --> 0:07:01.159 is because the best players in the world are aimed 0:07:01.160 --> 0:07:04.120 all over the place. Yeah, And I'd like to give 0:07:04.279 --> 0:07:08.599 just a quick, quick, little synopsis if if someone wants 0:07:08.640 --> 0:07:11.559 to hit a nice little draw with a seven iron 0:07:12.480 --> 0:07:15.320 right handed golfer, Well, we know that the club phase 0:07:15.360 --> 0:07:18.000 needs to be pointed somewhere right of the flag at 0:07:18.040 --> 0:07:21.120 impact to start it there, and we know the club 0:07:21.240 --> 0:07:23.480 path needs to be slightly right of that phase to 0:07:23.480 --> 0:07:26.440 make it curved back to the hole. That's what we know. Well, 0:07:26.920 --> 0:07:28.680 ball sitting on the ground and with a seven iron 0:07:28.680 --> 0:07:31.800 it should be that means that golf club is going 0:07:31.840 --> 0:07:33.560 to be moving down toward that golf ball, but it's 0:07:33.600 --> 0:07:36.840 going to be moving out to the right some amount, 0:07:36.960 --> 0:07:40.080 and that out helps us produce the path that we 0:07:40.120 --> 0:07:42.360 need to hit a draw. It does. So what I'm 0:07:42.400 --> 0:07:45.920 getting at is, with that seven iron, it's very reasonable. 0:07:46.080 --> 0:07:49.720 It's it's very plausible for the golfer to have good 0:07:49.720 --> 0:07:54.119 old fashioned straight railroad track alignment because the down helps 0:07:54.120 --> 0:07:56.640 the out, which helps the draw. Next thing, you know, 0:07:56.720 --> 0:07:58.240 he goes to the next te box, he tees up 0:07:58.240 --> 0:08:01.760 a driver to hit that same draw. Well, not his 0:08:01.800 --> 0:08:03.520 angler attack is up. Let's say it's up to it, 0:08:03.800 --> 0:08:07.800 which is very plausible as well. He and not have 0:08:07.960 --> 0:08:11.520 that same alignment because with the seven iron, that down 0:08:11.600 --> 0:08:15.720 produced the out, which helped him. But now with the driver, 0:08:15.880 --> 0:08:20.320 the up produces a leftward path, which does not help him. 0:08:20.680 --> 0:08:24.480 So now you got to ask yourself two questions. A. 0:08:24.480 --> 0:08:28.040 Are we going to change his upward angle of attack? 0:08:28.480 --> 0:08:31.520 And I would say, heck no, not with modern golf, 0:08:31.640 --> 0:08:33.880 not with the modern equipment. No, we want to launch 0:08:33.920 --> 0:08:35.400 this thing in the air. That's that's a good thing. 0:08:35.440 --> 0:08:38.040 It's a healthy thing. So if we're not going to 0:08:38.160 --> 0:08:41.760 change the angle of attack being upward, how are we 0:08:41.880 --> 0:08:45.640 going to defeat the leftward club path, which is actually 0:08:45.640 --> 0:08:48.319 our enemy. The answer is, we're going to aim to 0:08:48.360 --> 0:08:51.080 the right, and we're and this is what I say. 0:08:51.080 --> 0:08:53.320 I've been saying it for ten years. You have to 0:08:53.400 --> 0:08:58.120 aim right enough to counteract the left created by the up. 0:08:58.360 --> 0:09:00.880 Yeah, Joe, I think like roar, he's a good example 0:09:00.880 --> 0:09:03.040 of that. You see him aim and you've seen him 0:09:03.040 --> 0:09:05.520 am as irons with rail look like railroad, and then 0:09:05.559 --> 0:09:07.679 he gets to the driver and you know, looks like 0:09:07.720 --> 0:09:08.880 he's am in thirty yards right. 0:09:08.960 --> 0:09:12.400 Sometimes Victor Hovin comes along and just throws the monkey 0:09:12.400 --> 0:09:14.680 bench and the whole darn thing. He aims right, hits cuts. 0:09:14.760 --> 0:09:17.120 I mean, so there you go. You know, you've got 0:09:17.200 --> 0:09:19.040 Roy Mackworth, what is he in the world rankings now 0:09:19.160 --> 0:09:21.360 number three and he's aimed to the right and drawing it. 0:09:21.400 --> 0:09:23.120 You got Victor number four in the role aim and 0:09:23.200 --> 0:09:26.920 right and cutting it. You're like, oh my god, what's 0:09:26.960 --> 0:09:29.240 going on. So at the end of the day, the 0:09:29.280 --> 0:09:35.040 bottom line is this, In my opinion, every modern instructor 0:09:35.440 --> 0:09:38.559 not only should know this stuff, in my opinion, he 0:09:38.679 --> 0:09:43.520 must know this stuff. He must understand the three dimensional 0:09:43.559 --> 0:09:45.240 travel of that golf club. 0:09:45.679 --> 0:09:47.920 Joe I think it's pretty fun with Victor. You know, 0:09:48.000 --> 0:09:50.240 we had him on the podcast. We talked to him, 0:09:50.480 --> 0:09:53.880 you know, between Olympia Fields and when he won that 0:09:53.920 --> 0:09:57.200 Tour championship, and he was describing some of his best 0:09:57.240 --> 0:10:01.600 iron shots and working the ball all shifting his baseline, 0:10:01.679 --> 0:10:04.720 shifting his alignments. I mean, what is it like to 0:10:04.760 --> 0:10:07.920 have a player like Victor that's really adopted understanding three 0:10:08.000 --> 0:10:10.560 D geometry, three D delivery, but then he can bring 0:10:10.600 --> 0:10:12.600 it onto the course with his feels. You know, how 0:10:12.600 --> 0:10:16.920 do you marry having that technical side of things with Okay, 0:10:16.920 --> 0:10:17.679 I'm an athlete. 0:10:17.720 --> 0:10:18.680 I got to hit this shot. 0:10:18.880 --> 0:10:21.240 I'm winning the biggest tournament in the world. 0:10:22.240 --> 0:10:24.800 Well, first of all, Victor is an extremely intelligent kid 0:10:24.800 --> 0:10:29.360 out of golf. He's very inquisitive, and I've always believed 0:10:29.400 --> 0:10:32.440 that the sign of intelligence is not what you say 0:10:32.440 --> 0:10:36.560 that you know, it's the questions that you ask. And 0:10:36.679 --> 0:10:39.920 Victor is an extremely good question asker, and he keeps 0:10:39.920 --> 0:10:42.400 me on my toes. And I'll be completely honest with you. 0:10:42.800 --> 0:10:46.360 Working for Victor's demanding because he wants answers now, he 0:10:46.360 --> 0:10:50.480 actually wants them five minutes ago, and he wants correctness. 0:10:50.920 --> 0:10:53.280 And you if you not that I have how, but 0:10:53.320 --> 0:10:54.880 I can tell you if you try to slot something 0:10:54.960 --> 0:10:57.840 by him that just doesn't pass must or you're gonna 0:10:57.880 --> 0:11:01.960 hear about it. And so he's a smart kid, which 0:11:02.000 --> 0:11:04.560 is good for me, because you know me, guys, I 0:11:04.720 --> 0:11:06.800 like to get a little technical with times and talk 0:11:06.840 --> 0:11:09.719 about wrist angles and tilts and all that kind of 0:11:09.760 --> 0:11:11.920 good stuff, and he loves it. He's that stuff like candy. 0:11:12.880 --> 0:11:15.280 But at the end of the day, make no mistake 0:11:15.320 --> 0:11:19.600 about it. What you have seen out of Victor the 0:11:19.679 --> 0:11:23.760 last two weeks, specifically, what you've seen this year, It's 0:11:23.760 --> 0:11:29.800 not been some magical, mythical golfing phenomenon that I've been 0:11:29.800 --> 0:11:32.360 brought that I've brought him through teaching. You're just simply 0:11:32.440 --> 0:11:36.800 dealing with a Ferrari. You're dealing with an absolute world 0:11:36.840 --> 0:11:40.240 class primetime player. And as I said in an interview I 0:11:40.240 --> 0:11:44.520 did a few days ago Withgitor International, all he needed 0:11:44.640 --> 0:11:46.520 was a little good math and a little good science. 0:11:47.640 --> 0:11:50.600 This is what I told Victor when we started. I said, 0:11:51.120 --> 0:11:54.800 with your talent level, with your ability level, if my 0:11:54.960 --> 0:11:58.199 information is correct, if what I'm telling you is correct, 0:11:58.240 --> 0:12:01.320 then we must see results. There can be no other way. 0:12:02.800 --> 0:12:06.160 And if we're not seeing results, then most likely what 0:12:06.240 --> 0:12:10.960 I'm telling you is not valid. And guys, not to 0:12:11.040 --> 0:12:14.600 fluff my feathers. But what I have told him to do, 0:12:14.679 --> 0:12:17.440 he has caught on to it immediately. You guys have 0:12:17.600 --> 0:12:21.920 seen the results. The golfing world has seen the results. 0:12:22.679 --> 0:12:26.600 And one last little snippet, we did not be in 0:12:26.800 --> 0:12:29.880 short game until Riviera on Tuesday. He had a photo 0:12:30.000 --> 0:12:34.120 shoot on Monday. We started on Tuesday and he and 0:12:34.160 --> 0:12:37.480 his caddy, Shay were standing there and his agent, butler 0:12:38.000 --> 0:12:41.320 Butler Melnott were standing there with me, and I looked 0:12:41.360 --> 0:12:42.800 at him and I said, guys, this isn't going to 0:12:42.840 --> 0:12:46.360 take long. This ain't gonna take long. And I'm not 0:12:46.400 --> 0:12:49.679 so sure they believe me, but I believe not in 0:12:50.600 --> 0:12:52.640 what I'm saying. I believe that he could do it. 0:12:53.880 --> 0:12:56.960 And as you guys have heard me say before, anybody 0:12:57.000 --> 0:12:59.800 that can take a four iron and put it on 0:12:59.840 --> 0:13:01.720 the back of the ball at one hundred and five 0:13:01.800 --> 0:13:03.959 miles an hour and hit a shot dead straight from 0:13:03.960 --> 0:13:07.240 two hundred and fifty yards away to a flag, don't 0:13:07.280 --> 0:13:10.319 tell me he can't chip a golf ball. Don't tell 0:13:10.440 --> 0:13:12.760 me that he can't pitch a golf ball because I 0:13:12.800 --> 0:13:17.120 don't accept that theory. I don't accept that hypothesis that 0:13:17.200 --> 0:13:20.360 this kid can't chip a golf ball. Yeah, and now 0:13:20.440 --> 0:13:22.600 the world is seeing that he can. Yeah. 0:13:22.840 --> 0:13:25.040 Joe kind of reminds me a little bit of you know, 0:13:25.160 --> 0:13:28.080 Tiger had those struggles a little bit with chipping. It's 0:13:28.200 --> 0:13:31.160 not a confidence thing. He doesn't need. He doesn't need 0:13:31.240 --> 0:13:34.680 like a sports psychologist. He needs like mechanics. He needs 0:13:34.679 --> 0:13:36.520 to improve the kinetics, you know what I mean, what 0:13:36.559 --> 0:13:40.880 he's feeling. So give a little overview there of those 0:13:41.000 --> 0:13:44.480 changes in the three D delivery and maybe some of 0:13:44.520 --> 0:13:47.480 the angular rates right of victor short game, you know, 0:13:47.760 --> 0:13:50.080 before and after some of these changes that were making 0:13:50.200 --> 0:13:53.679 you know, angle of attack, delivery, things of that nature. 0:13:53.760 --> 0:13:56.720 Well, first and foremost it is my opinion, I stress 0:13:56.760 --> 0:14:01.920 opinion that people are bad shippers, or they become bad 0:14:01.960 --> 0:14:07.680 shippers because they hit the ground too soon and or incorrectly. 0:14:09.080 --> 0:14:12.720 And Victor Palvin was a living embodiment of hitting the 0:14:12.720 --> 0:14:14.679 ground too soon and hitting it incorrectly. He had them 0:14:14.679 --> 0:14:17.319 both going on. He had double whammies. And the more 0:14:17.360 --> 0:14:18.720 he would stick it in the ground and the more 0:14:18.760 --> 0:14:20.200 he would lay the sod over it, and the more 0:14:20.240 --> 0:14:22.320 he would flob it, the more he believed he was 0:14:22.360 --> 0:14:26.440 too steep. Yeah, I'm not engaging the bounce. Oh my god, 0:14:26.480 --> 0:14:29.360 I've heard engaged the bounce for two million times. I've 0:14:29.400 --> 0:14:32.400 heard that. And he believed that he was too steep. 0:14:32.680 --> 0:14:36.360 Well as Marty, as you know, that was absolutely incorrect. 0:14:37.600 --> 0:14:41.720 And all things being equal, a steep angle of attack 0:14:42.800 --> 0:14:45.480 moves the low point more forward. And if the low 0:14:45.560 --> 0:14:47.800 point is more forward or shall we say contact with 0:14:47.840 --> 0:14:50.520 the ground, because contact with the grounds not thisssarily your 0:14:50.560 --> 0:14:52.360 low point. I'm just trying to keep it simple for 0:14:52.400 --> 0:14:55.480 our viewers our listeners. So as the angle of attack 0:14:55.520 --> 0:14:57.880 becomes more steeper, all things being equal, the low point 0:14:57.880 --> 0:15:00.200 becomes more forward. Well, if the low point or the 0:15:00.200 --> 0:15:02.920 contact point with the ground is more forward, then that 0:15:02.960 --> 0:15:06.160 means I'm not chili dipping it anymore. That means I'm 0:15:06.160 --> 0:15:09.600 not fatting it anymore. It means I'm catching ball first, 0:15:10.520 --> 0:15:13.760 And make no mistake about it. When you are trying 0:15:13.800 --> 0:15:15.720 to chip at the PJ tort well, when you're trying 0:15:15.720 --> 0:15:20.680 to chip at any level, if you cannot accurately predict contact, 0:15:20.720 --> 0:15:24.040 if you cannot accurately predict the speed of the ball 0:15:24.080 --> 0:15:28.040 off of that face, you cannot chip, and you sure 0:15:28.440 --> 0:15:30.720 cannot chip at the tour level. So what I did 0:15:30.880 --> 0:15:33.000 was I said, no, you're not too steep or too shallow. 0:15:33.600 --> 0:15:37.040 We started moving the angle of attack dramatically more down. 0:15:37.120 --> 0:15:38.760 When he came to me, his angle of attack on 0:15:38.800 --> 0:15:40.720 a chip or a pitch was three or four degrees down, 0:15:41.880 --> 0:15:45.360 and now it's twelve. He can stand there and rip 0:15:45.440 --> 0:15:48.600 them all day long with his eyes closed now, because 0:15:48.760 --> 0:15:54.000 what the technique has allowed him to do is catch good, 0:15:54.040 --> 0:15:59.480 solid contact with a high frequency, which allows him to 0:15:59.560 --> 0:16:01.320 predict what the ball is going to do before he 0:16:01.400 --> 0:16:03.800 hits it. And if you think about it in common 0:16:03.840 --> 0:16:06.800 sense terms, that's that's that's that's the good sauce. That's 0:16:06.800 --> 0:16:08.640 that's the secret to chimping is being able to predict 0:16:08.640 --> 0:16:11.160 what the ball is going to do. Uh. And with 0:16:11.200 --> 0:16:13.760 that steep angle attack, now that low point is dramatically 0:16:13.800 --> 0:16:18.120 more forward, which increases the probability of a solid hit. 0:16:18.680 --> 0:16:23.360 That's all he needed, guys. And unfortunately he was told, well, 0:16:23.640 --> 0:16:26.000 you can't shift if your wrist angles like that going back. 0:16:26.040 --> 0:16:28.800 Well we know that's true because Jordan Spied does it, 0:16:28.840 --> 0:16:31.040 and Dustin Johnson does it, and Brooks Koepka does it. 0:16:31.040 --> 0:16:33.160 And the last time I checked, they're all major champions. 0:16:33.200 --> 0:16:36.000 They were all normal in the world. When I showed 0:16:36.040 --> 0:16:39.080 him those videos of those guys doing that, there was 0:16:39.120 --> 0:16:43.040 like a light bulb moment. He was like wow, because 0:16:43.400 --> 0:16:46.600 all this time he had been trying to roll that 0:16:46.800 --> 0:16:51.760 risk in the backswing cup cup that wrist. No one 0:16:51.880 --> 0:16:54.560 had ever said, no, no, no, no, no no no. Let's 0:16:54.600 --> 0:16:58.000 get the bottom vector of spin loft, which for the 0:16:58.080 --> 0:17:01.720 viewers out here, that's the angle of attack. Let's work 0:17:01.760 --> 0:17:05.320 on the bottom vector, which moves the low point forward, 0:17:05.359 --> 0:17:08.720 which allows you to predict contact. Because Marty, this is 0:17:08.800 --> 0:17:11.000 what I believe to be true when we're talking spin loft. 0:17:11.000 --> 0:17:12.919 And you know, Victor had that little spin loft thing 0:17:12.960 --> 0:17:14.400 on the interview the other day. He said he learns 0:17:14.400 --> 0:17:16.879 spin loft. Well, as we know, spin loft is just 0:17:16.920 --> 0:17:19.040 an angle. You got the angle attack on the bottom, 0:17:19.080 --> 0:17:21.800 you got the dynamic loft on the top. In my opinion, 0:17:22.160 --> 0:17:26.400 the bottom vector is where the money's made. Anybody can 0:17:26.440 --> 0:17:28.680 have a good top vector. I can just just open 0:17:28.720 --> 0:17:31.960 the face that points the top vector up in there. 0:17:32.080 --> 0:17:35.280 Just open the face, yep. But bottom vector that's where 0:17:35.280 --> 0:17:37.840 the money is made, and that was his problem, and 0:17:37.880 --> 0:17:41.320 in my opinion, it is the problem when people cannot 0:17:41.359 --> 0:17:44.240 chip and pitch. They don't have the low point or 0:17:44.280 --> 0:17:46.520 the contact point with the ground far and a forward. 0:17:46.600 --> 0:17:50.840 Therefore they're hitting the ground too soon and then they're 0:17:50.880 --> 0:17:55.520 hitting it incorrectly. And after about ten thousand unsuccessful attempts, 0:17:56.160 --> 0:17:59.160 then you start doing things to not hit the ground, 0:17:59.800 --> 0:18:02.439 and that's when this thing can get sideways quickly. 0:18:03.240 --> 0:18:05.760 Yes, yeah, Joe, I was just gonna ask, how did 0:18:05.800 --> 0:18:08.879 you and Victor? How did you guys get in contact? 0:18:08.960 --> 0:18:12.199 Like what was that initial introduction like to start to 0:18:12.240 --> 0:18:12.720 work together. 0:18:13.560 --> 0:18:15.480 I called him he needed to loan me money? When 0:18:15.480 --> 0:18:17.280 not to play poker with? I needed a loan, So 0:18:17.359 --> 0:18:19.760 that's what I called him, though, I'm just kidding. I'm 0:18:19.760 --> 0:18:20.680 just kidding. 0:18:21.400 --> 0:18:23.520 Hey, listen, now you can call him and I think 0:18:23.680 --> 0:18:25.440 he'd probably give you that loan pretty quick. 0:18:25.880 --> 0:18:27.680 No, he won't give it to me, or he'll charge 0:18:27.680 --> 0:18:31.760 me twenty percent interest. So no, he's no. The Bank 0:18:31.800 --> 0:18:36.040 of Hobblood is closed up. Not getting in there. I've 0:18:36.040 --> 0:18:41.399 known Victor now five years, give or take. Met him 0:18:41.440 --> 0:18:43.560 when I went to Oklahoma State coach Bratton and coach 0:18:43.640 --> 0:18:45.119 Darr out there had me out there to do a 0:18:45.119 --> 0:18:47.199 little chatting with them. I met him, I met him 0:18:47.240 --> 0:18:50.560 Ben and we stayed in contact. But Victor contacted me 0:18:50.600 --> 0:18:55.040 in late twenty nineteen, I believe it was October. He 0:18:55.119 --> 0:18:57.639 sent me his swings and I did a video analysis 0:18:57.640 --> 0:18:59.600 like this. He was like a twenty minute analysis where 0:18:59.600 --> 0:19:02.199 I was pre to him and guys, this is the 0:19:02.200 --> 0:19:05.680 honest truth. Sent that video analysis to coach Brighton, coach 0:19:05.760 --> 0:19:08.919 Dharr because I wanted complete transparency. I wanted everyone to 0:19:08.960 --> 0:19:11.640 hear what I was saying to this kid. I told him, 0:19:11.680 --> 0:19:14.560 if I'm not mistaken, I told him five times in 0:19:14.640 --> 0:19:19.320 that video, stay away from golf instruction, stay away from golf, 0:19:19.480 --> 0:19:23.919 including me. Stay away. You are going bleat. It's a 0:19:23.920 --> 0:19:26.320 matter of time. And I said, you need a good 0:19:26.320 --> 0:19:29.240 caddy and a good lawyer, not a good golf bro. 0:19:30.720 --> 0:19:33.359 So he decided to come out and see me in 0:19:33.480 --> 0:19:36.320 November of twenty nineteen and we went out to TPC 0:19:36.440 --> 0:19:39.920 Summerlin and he just put on a ball hitting exhibition. 0:19:40.000 --> 0:19:42.719 He's hitting four irons off the ground, He's barely touching 0:19:42.760 --> 0:19:46.520 the turf, launching this thing two forty straight as you 0:19:46.520 --> 0:19:49.120 can point. He put out the driver and he's hitting 0:19:49.119 --> 0:19:51.080 it out there three hundred and twenty yards with a 0:19:51.160 --> 0:19:53.320 two yard cut. And when it was over, he said, 0:19:53.320 --> 0:19:57.000 what do you think. I think that you don't need 0:19:57.040 --> 0:20:00.200 a golf instructors. What I think? And we went back 0:20:00.240 --> 0:20:02.600 to my house that night and I had a little 0:20:02.640 --> 0:20:06.359 bourbon and I said, Victor, you're a great kid. I 0:20:06.800 --> 0:20:09.040 want to be your friend. And I said, if if 0:20:09.080 --> 0:20:12.200 you want to drink bourbon, if you want to play poker, 0:20:12.320 --> 0:20:15.280 that's fine. I'm your guy. But we're not going to 0:20:15.320 --> 0:20:18.480 do golf instruction. We're not gonna do that. So as 0:20:18.480 --> 0:20:21.960 an instructor, guys, As an instructor, I knew that I 0:20:22.040 --> 0:20:25.679 had a generational talent sitting in front of me. I 0:20:25.800 --> 0:20:28.119 knew that I had a player sitting in front of 0:20:28.160 --> 0:20:32.080 me that quote unquote could take me places. He could 0:20:32.119 --> 0:20:35.560 he could take me places. I was not going to 0:20:35.640 --> 0:20:38.959 have that. I was not going to allow that. He 0:20:39.040 --> 0:20:42.040