1 00:00:00,400 --> 00:00:02,400 Speaker 1: The guys from Ping. They've kind of showed me how 2 00:00:02,480 --> 00:00:05,120 Speaker 1: much the equipment matters. I just love that I can 3 00:00:05,200 --> 00:00:06,600 Speaker 1: hit any shot I kind of want. 4 00:00:06,720 --> 00:00:08,520 Speaker 2: We're gonna be able to tell some fun stories about 5 00:00:08,520 --> 00:00:10,640 Speaker 2: what goes on here to help golfers play better golf. 6 00:00:11,400 --> 00:00:13,880 Speaker 3: Welcome back to the Pink Proving Grounds Podcast. 7 00:00:13,920 --> 00:00:14,760 Speaker 4: I'm Shane Bacon. 8 00:00:14,840 --> 00:00:18,640 Speaker 3: That is Marty Jertsen, who apparently maybe just got a haircut, 9 00:00:18,720 --> 00:00:20,200 Speaker 3: looks really high and tight right now. 10 00:00:20,239 --> 00:00:23,640 Speaker 2: My friend who summertime in Phoenix been been rough Shane, 11 00:00:23,720 --> 00:00:25,560 Speaker 2: So yeah, you gotta keep it short in the summertime. 12 00:00:25,640 --> 00:00:27,840 Speaker 4: No reason to be messing with it. We got exciting 13 00:00:27,880 --> 00:00:28,520 Speaker 4: guests today. 14 00:00:28,720 --> 00:00:31,880 Speaker 3: A man that is also in a worn climate right now, 15 00:00:32,000 --> 00:00:37,000 Speaker 3: Joseph Mayo joining us, instructor of an instructor for discovery 16 00:00:37,040 --> 00:00:40,559 Speaker 3: properties based out of the summit in Las Vegas. And 17 00:00:41,440 --> 00:00:44,879 Speaker 3: another of a person much smarter than I am. So Joseph, 18 00:00:44,920 --> 00:00:46,800 Speaker 3: we appreciate you taking a little. 19 00:00:46,600 --> 00:00:47,160 Speaker 4: Bit of time. 20 00:00:47,680 --> 00:00:51,720 Speaker 3: And I was reading that you saw a track man 21 00:00:52,360 --> 00:00:55,200 Speaker 3: for the first time and it kind of opened up 22 00:00:55,240 --> 00:00:57,920 Speaker 3: your brain to this new world and that's how you 23 00:00:57,960 --> 00:01:00,360 Speaker 3: got back into golf. Can you take us back to 24 00:01:00,400 --> 00:01:03,080 Speaker 3: that moment when you first saw track Man and how 25 00:01:03,200 --> 00:01:05,640 Speaker 3: it kind of opened up this world that is now 26 00:01:05,680 --> 00:01:06,280 Speaker 3: your life. 27 00:01:06,440 --> 00:01:09,080 Speaker 1: Absolutely, and first of all, thank you guys for having me. 28 00:01:09,120 --> 00:01:12,880 Speaker 1: I appreciate it. I got out of golf and around 29 00:01:12,959 --> 00:01:16,800 Speaker 1: two thousand because I was so frustrated that, you know, 30 00:01:16,840 --> 00:01:18,760 Speaker 1: there was no way to measure anything, there was no 31 00:01:18,840 --> 00:01:22,000 Speaker 1: way to answer questions, there was no way to validate anything. 32 00:01:22,319 --> 00:01:25,280 Speaker 1: And I got out of golf and I thought nothing 33 00:01:25,319 --> 00:01:27,640 Speaker 1: of it. I never thought that I would be a 34 00:01:27,640 --> 00:01:30,319 Speaker 1: part of golf again. And I can't remember exactly where 35 00:01:30,360 --> 00:01:33,280 Speaker 1: we were, but my father was a cancer patient, still is, 36 00:01:33,720 --> 00:01:36,200 Speaker 1: and we were in a physicians off at some point 37 00:01:36,560 --> 00:01:39,119 Speaker 1: and I picked up some type of a golfing magazine, 38 00:01:39,160 --> 00:01:42,319 Speaker 1: don't remember what it was, and I heard about TrackMan 39 00:01:42,400 --> 00:01:45,240 Speaker 1: to Opper Radar, and that really really made me go, Wow, 40 00:01:45,760 --> 00:01:49,680 Speaker 1: maybe this is what I've been looking for. There was 41 00:01:49,720 --> 00:01:53,040 Speaker 1: a doctor and a caesiologist here in Las Vegas that 42 00:01:53,560 --> 00:01:57,120 Speaker 1: knew me and liked me, and he believed in my abilities. 43 00:01:57,160 --> 00:01:59,840 Speaker 1: I don't know why, but he did. And he said, hey, 44 00:02:00,240 --> 00:02:02,000 Speaker 1: let's get a track Man. I'm like, wow, sure, let's 45 00:02:02,040 --> 00:02:03,600 Speaker 1: go ahead and do that. I've got five hundred bucks 46 00:02:03,600 --> 00:02:06,160 Speaker 1: in my checking account, so let's go ahead and get one. 47 00:02:07,200 --> 00:02:10,160 Speaker 1: There were twenty six thousand dollars and we got that thing. 48 00:02:11,040 --> 00:02:13,680 Speaker 1: And you know, at that time, there are no there's 49 00:02:13,720 --> 00:02:16,560 Speaker 1: no Internet forums, there's no user's manual. I mean, you're 50 00:02:16,600 --> 00:02:19,440 Speaker 1: on your own. It's sink or swim. So I just 51 00:02:19,480 --> 00:02:22,600 Speaker 1: plopped that bad boy down and I just let everybody 52 00:02:22,680 --> 00:02:24,840 Speaker 1: come hit shots for me. And I started seeing all 53 00:02:24,840 --> 00:02:29,520 Speaker 1: these patterns and began putting together ball flight, if you will. 54 00:02:30,360 --> 00:02:33,720 Speaker 1: And I started to notice that, you know, no disrespect 55 00:02:33,760 --> 00:02:36,240 Speaker 1: to those of the past, but I began to see 56 00:02:37,360 --> 00:02:40,360 Speaker 1: that what we believe to be true was not true. 57 00:02:41,080 --> 00:02:43,600 Speaker 1: And the golf ball did not start on the club path. 58 00:02:43,680 --> 00:02:45,799 Speaker 1: It started, you know, as you guys know, basically where 59 00:02:45,840 --> 00:02:47,840 Speaker 1: the face is pointed, not one hundred percent, but basically. 60 00:02:48,320 --> 00:02:51,880 Speaker 1: And I took that and I started putting videos on 61 00:02:51,919 --> 00:02:57,240 Speaker 1: the internet, I don't know, twenty ten and some people 62 00:02:57,280 --> 00:03:01,040 Speaker 1: saw those videos. Brant Waite, you guys know, PJ tour 63 00:03:01,120 --> 00:03:04,040 Speaker 1: player saw it, and we developed a friendship and literally 64 00:03:04,440 --> 00:03:05,600 Speaker 1: it changed my life. 65 00:03:06,000 --> 00:03:08,600 Speaker 2: Joe, I think you're kind of like a pioneer. You're 66 00:03:08,639 --> 00:03:11,359 Speaker 2: you're you're the early adopter of track man using three D. 67 00:03:12,840 --> 00:03:15,000 Speaker 2: You know, I think I'm a PJ of America member. 68 00:03:15,120 --> 00:03:17,200 Speaker 2: Now I know the PGA of America knows that they 69 00:03:17,240 --> 00:03:19,600 Speaker 2: had to they have to level up their ballfly laws, 70 00:03:19,639 --> 00:03:22,720 Speaker 2: so to speak, and everything that was taught there. You've 71 00:03:22,960 --> 00:03:26,680 Speaker 2: influenced a lot of folks in using you know, kind 72 00:03:26,720 --> 00:03:29,040 Speaker 2: of bringing in three D problem solving. You know, you've 73 00:03:29,080 --> 00:03:32,120 Speaker 2: kind of taken that scientific method and applied it to golf. 74 00:03:32,240 --> 00:03:34,200 Speaker 2: I think that's one of the things you've inspired so 75 00:03:34,280 --> 00:03:37,960 Speaker 2: many not only helped so many golfers, but inspired a 76 00:03:37,960 --> 00:03:40,760 Speaker 2: lot of golf teachers to open their eyes to that. 77 00:03:41,280 --> 00:03:43,560 Speaker 2: So I feel like you've reached a lot of folks. 78 00:03:44,160 --> 00:03:46,960 Speaker 2: Who were some of the other teachers. I know you 79 00:03:47,080 --> 00:03:48,920 Speaker 2: just talked about figuring out a lot of this on 80 00:03:48,920 --> 00:03:51,680 Speaker 2: your own because there was no instruction, Manuel, But who 81 00:03:51,680 --> 00:03:55,600 Speaker 2: are some of the teachers, PhDs, academics, whoever, Because you 82 00:03:55,640 --> 00:03:57,320 Speaker 2: have not been afraid to, you know, reach out and 83 00:03:57,320 --> 00:03:59,120 Speaker 2: make a phone call and ask questions. That's what I 84 00:03:59,160 --> 00:04:02,040 Speaker 2: love about you. Who are some of those folks that 85 00:04:02,080 --> 00:04:04,440 Speaker 2: have helped you along this journey level up your knowledge? 86 00:04:04,760 --> 00:04:06,800 Speaker 1: That is a great question. I have bugged you guys 87 00:04:06,800 --> 00:04:08,840 Speaker 1: at ping As you know, for the last ten years 88 00:04:10,200 --> 00:04:14,240 Speaker 1: you have been an invaluable resource. Paul would I just 89 00:04:14,320 --> 00:04:16,599 Speaker 1: I called Paul to hear his accent. You know, I 90 00:04:16,600 --> 00:04:19,800 Speaker 1: don't really care what he says. I want that sexy 91 00:04:19,839 --> 00:04:24,880 Speaker 1: accent that he's got. Eric Hemrinson there of course also 92 00:04:25,040 --> 00:04:28,200 Speaker 1: doctor Soshil Mackenzie. I have bugged the daylights out of him, 93 00:04:28,480 --> 00:04:32,600 Speaker 1: Doctor Young hou Kwan down in Dallas, Texas. I've bugged 94 00:04:32,640 --> 00:04:36,279 Speaker 1: him about biomechanics as well. And I'm sure I'm leaving 95 00:04:36,360 --> 00:04:39,160 Speaker 1: others out, But I don't ever want to make it 96 00:04:39,240 --> 00:04:41,800 Speaker 1: sound like I did this on my own, because that 97 00:04:42,160 --> 00:04:44,800 Speaker 1: is absolutely not true. And you guys at ping have 98 00:04:44,839 --> 00:04:47,640 Speaker 1: been an invaluable resource and I really appreciate your help 99 00:04:47,680 --> 00:04:48,840 Speaker 1: and support over the last ten years. 100 00:04:49,040 --> 00:04:52,159 Speaker 3: Joe, I was interested in something you said. You said 101 00:04:52,720 --> 00:04:56,280 Speaker 3: when you started to dive into TrackMan numbers, everything that 102 00:04:56,360 --> 00:04:58,359 Speaker 3: had been kind of thought about in terms of the 103 00:04:58,400 --> 00:05:03,520 Speaker 3: golf swing was either incorrect or maybe misevaluated, or maybe 104 00:05:03,560 --> 00:05:04,719 Speaker 3: it was just simply wrong. 105 00:05:05,320 --> 00:05:06,599 Speaker 4: What was wrong. 106 00:05:06,440 --> 00:05:09,560 Speaker 3: About the way we thought about the way golfers hit it, 107 00:05:09,880 --> 00:05:13,239 Speaker 3: pros hit it, and what have you changed in terms 108 00:05:13,240 --> 00:05:15,359 Speaker 3: of the minds of some of the people in and 109 00:05:15,400 --> 00:05:18,880 Speaker 3: around golf instructors, professional golfers that you feel like is 110 00:05:18,960 --> 00:05:23,479 Speaker 3: now something everybody agrees on or believes that, well, believe. 111 00:05:23,160 --> 00:05:25,640 Speaker 1: It or not. I don't think we still have a consensus. 112 00:05:26,720 --> 00:05:29,960 Speaker 1: People will still send me screenshots of people on the internet, 113 00:05:30,160 --> 00:05:32,040 Speaker 1: you know, saying hit down to make it go up, 114 00:05:32,080 --> 00:05:35,520 Speaker 1: which we know is that's silly. That doesn't happen. The 115 00:05:35,560 --> 00:05:38,600 Speaker 1: ball starts on the club path, which we know that 116 00:05:38,640 --> 00:05:42,320 Speaker 1: doesn't happen except in very very specific cases. And I 117 00:05:42,360 --> 00:05:44,159 Speaker 1: don't think it still starts on the path. It might 118 00:05:44,279 --> 00:05:46,279 Speaker 1: become fifty to fifty or fifty five to forty five, 119 00:05:46,320 --> 00:05:50,760 Speaker 1: but without question, the number one ball flight issue was 120 00:05:51,279 --> 00:05:54,560 Speaker 1: the golf ball starts where the path of the club 121 00:05:54,720 --> 00:05:57,920 Speaker 1: is and it curves towards the face, and that is 122 00:05:58,120 --> 00:06:00,279 Speaker 1: dead wrong. As we know, that's absolutely backward. Which it 123 00:06:00,279 --> 00:06:03,120 Speaker 1: starts basically where the face is pointed, and it actually 124 00:06:03,160 --> 00:06:05,720 Speaker 1: curves away from the club path assuming your face hit. 125 00:06:06,960 --> 00:06:11,360 Speaker 1: And I think one of the biggest revelations of track 126 00:06:11,400 --> 00:06:14,239 Speaker 1: Man for the masses, and it should be the biggest revelation, 127 00:06:14,440 --> 00:06:17,920 Speaker 1: is how the angle of attack, the angle of attack 128 00:06:18,000 --> 00:06:22,840 Speaker 1: can be judge, jury and executioner. And I remember, oh 129 00:06:22,880 --> 00:06:25,360 Speaker 1: my god, twelve years ago this is twenty twenty three. 130 00:06:25,440 --> 00:06:29,200 Speaker 1: Right guys. Twelve years ago minimum when I did a 131 00:06:29,279 --> 00:06:32,320 Speaker 1: video where I said, if your angle of attack changes 132 00:06:32,400 --> 00:06:35,560 Speaker 1: from down of you know, I eat iron to driver 133 00:06:36,360 --> 00:06:39,560 Speaker 1: and you're trying to hit the same shot, you cannot 134 00:06:39,640 --> 00:06:43,320 Speaker 1: be aimed in the same place. Yes, when you start 135 00:06:43,400 --> 00:06:47,360 Speaker 1: thinking of the three dimensional aspect of ballflight, the three 136 00:06:47,360 --> 00:06:50,360 Speaker 1: dimensional aspect of the club movement. You know, we've been 137 00:06:50,360 --> 00:06:52,360 Speaker 1: told for one hundred years that you got to have 138 00:06:52,480 --> 00:06:55,400 Speaker 1: good grip, good stance, good posture, but you got to 139 00:06:55,440 --> 00:06:58,800 Speaker 1: have good alignment. And I don't know what good alignment 140 00:06:58,960 --> 00:07:01,159 Speaker 1: is because the best players in the world are aimed 141 00:07:01,160 --> 00:07:04,120 Speaker 1: all over the place. Yeah, And I'd like to give 142 00:07:04,279 --> 00:07:08,599 Speaker 1: just a quick, quick, little synopsis if if someone wants 143 00:07:08,640 --> 00:07:11,559 Speaker 1: to hit a nice little draw with a seven iron 144 00:07:12,480 --> 00:07:15,320 Speaker 1: right handed golfer, Well, we know that the club phase 145 00:07:15,360 --> 00:07:18,000 Speaker 1: needs to be pointed somewhere right of the flag at 146 00:07:18,040 --> 00:07:21,120 Speaker 1: impact to start it there, and we know the club 147 00:07:21,240 --> 00:07:23,480 Speaker 1: path needs to be slightly right of that phase to 148 00:07:23,480 --> 00:07:26,440 Speaker 1: make it curved back to the hole. That's what we know. Well, 149 00:07:26,920 --> 00:07:28,680 Speaker 1: ball sitting on the ground and with a seven iron 150 00:07:28,680 --> 00:07:31,800 Speaker 1: it should be that means that golf club is going 151 00:07:31,840 --> 00:07:33,560 Speaker 1: to be moving down toward that golf ball, but it's 152 00:07:33,600 --> 00:07:36,840 Speaker 1: going to be moving out to the right some amount, 153 00:07:36,960 --> 00:07:40,080 Speaker 1: and that out helps us produce the path that we 154 00:07:40,120 --> 00:07:42,360 Speaker 1: need to hit a draw. It does. So what I'm 155 00:07:42,400 --> 00:07:45,920 Speaker 1: getting at is, with that seven iron, it's very reasonable. 156 00:07:46,080 --> 00:07:49,720 Speaker 1: It's it's very plausible for the golfer to have good 157 00:07:49,720 --> 00:07:54,119 Speaker 1: old fashioned straight railroad track alignment because the down helps 158 00:07:54,120 --> 00:07:56,640 Speaker 1: the out, which helps the draw. Next thing, you know, 159 00:07:56,720 --> 00:07:58,240 Speaker 1: he goes to the next te box, he tees up 160 00:07:58,240 --> 00:08:01,760 Speaker 1: a driver to hit that same draw. Well, not his 161 00:08:01,800 --> 00:08:03,520 Speaker 1: angler attack is up. Let's say it's up to it, 162 00:08:03,800 --> 00:08:07,800 Speaker 1: which is very plausible as well. He and not have 163 00:08:07,960 --> 00:08:11,520 Speaker 1: that same alignment because with the seven iron, that down 164 00:08:11,600 --> 00:08:15,720 Speaker 1: produced the out, which helped him. But now with the driver, 165 00:08:15,880 --> 00:08:20,320 Speaker 1: the up produces a leftward path, which does not help him. 166 00:08:20,680 --> 00:08:24,480 Speaker 1: So now you got to ask yourself two questions. A. 167 00:08:24,480 --> 00:08:28,040 Speaker 1: Are we going to change his upward angle of attack? 168 00:08:28,480 --> 00:08:31,520 Speaker 1: And I would say, heck no, not with modern golf, 169 00:08:31,640 --> 00:08:33,880 Speaker 1: not with the modern equipment. No, we want to launch 170 00:08:33,920 --> 00:08:35,400 Speaker 1: this thing in the air. That's that's a good thing. 171 00:08:35,440 --> 00:08:38,040 Speaker 1: It's a healthy thing. So if we're not going to 172 00:08:38,160 --> 00:08:41,760 Speaker 1: change the angle of attack being upward, how are we 173 00:08:41,880 --> 00:08:45,640 Speaker 1: going to defeat the leftward club path, which is actually 174 00:08:45,640 --> 00:08:48,319 Speaker 1: our enemy. The answer is, we're going to aim to 175 00:08:48,360 --> 00:08:51,080 Speaker 1: the right, and we're and this is what I say. 176 00:08:51,080 --> 00:08:53,320 Speaker 1: I've been saying it for ten years. You have to 177 00:08:53,400 --> 00:08:58,120 Speaker 1: aim right enough to counteract the left created by the up. 178 00:08:58,360 --> 00:09:00,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, Joe, I think like roar, he's a good example 179 00:09:00,880 --> 00:09:03,040 Speaker 2: of that. You see him aim and you've seen him 180 00:09:03,040 --> 00:09:05,520 Speaker 2: am as irons with rail look like railroad, and then 181 00:09:05,559 --> 00:09:07,679 Speaker 2: he gets to the driver and you know, looks like 182 00:09:07,720 --> 00:09:08,880 Speaker 2: he's am in thirty yards right. 183 00:09:08,960 --> 00:09:12,400 Speaker 1: Sometimes Victor Hovin comes along and just throws the monkey 184 00:09:12,400 --> 00:09:14,680 Speaker 1: bench and the whole darn thing. He aims right, hits cuts. 185 00:09:14,760 --> 00:09:17,120 Speaker 1: I mean, so there you go. You know, you've got 186 00:09:17,200 --> 00:09:19,040 Speaker 1: Roy Mackworth, what is he in the world rankings now 187 00:09:19,160 --> 00:09:21,360 Speaker 1: number three and he's aimed to the right and drawing it. 188 00:09:21,400 --> 00:09:23,120 Speaker 1: You got Victor number four in the role aim and 189 00:09:23,200 --> 00:09:26,920 Speaker 1: right and cutting it. You're like, oh my god, what's 190 00:09:26,960 --> 00:09:29,240 Speaker 1: going on. So at the end of the day, the 191 00:09:29,280 --> 00:09:35,040 Speaker 1: bottom line is this, In my opinion, every modern instructor 192 00:09:35,440 --> 00:09:38,559 Speaker 1: not only should know this stuff, in my opinion, he 193 00:09:38,679 --> 00:09:43,520 Speaker 1: must know this stuff. He must understand the three dimensional 194 00:09:43,559 --> 00:09:45,240 Speaker 1: travel of that golf club. 195 00:09:45,679 --> 00:09:47,920 Speaker 2: Joe I think it's pretty fun with Victor. You know, 196 00:09:48,000 --> 00:09:50,240 Speaker 2: we had him on the podcast. We talked to him, 197 00:09:50,480 --> 00:09:53,880 Speaker 2: you know, between Olympia Fields and when he won that 198 00:09:53,920 --> 00:09:57,200 Speaker 2: Tour championship, and he was describing some of his best 199 00:09:57,240 --> 00:10:01,600 Speaker 2: iron shots and working the ball all shifting his baseline, 200 00:10:01,679 --> 00:10:04,720 Speaker 2: shifting his alignments. I mean, what is it like to 201 00:10:04,760 --> 00:10:07,920 Speaker 2: have a player like Victor that's really adopted understanding three 202 00:10:08,000 --> 00:10:10,560 Speaker 2: D geometry, three D delivery, but then he can bring 203 00:10:10,600 --> 00:10:12,600 Speaker 2: it onto the course with his feels. You know, how 204 00:10:12,600 --> 00:10:16,920 Speaker 2: do you marry having that technical side of things with Okay, 205 00:10:16,920 --> 00:10:17,679 Speaker 2: I'm an athlete. 206 00:10:17,720 --> 00:10:18,680 Speaker 4: I got to hit this shot. 207 00:10:18,880 --> 00:10:21,240 Speaker 2: I'm winning the biggest tournament in the world. 208 00:10:22,240 --> 00:10:24,800 Speaker 1: Well, first of all, Victor is an extremely intelligent kid 209 00:10:24,800 --> 00:10:29,360 Speaker 1: out of golf. He's very inquisitive, and I've always believed 210 00:10:29,400 --> 00:10:32,440 Speaker 1: that the sign of intelligence is not what you say 211 00:10:32,440 --> 00:10:36,560 Speaker 1: that you know, it's the questions that you ask. And 212 00:10:36,679 --> 00:10:39,920 Speaker 1: Victor is an extremely good question asker, and he keeps 213 00:10:39,920 --> 00:10:42,400 Speaker 1: me on my toes. And I'll be completely honest with you. 214 00:10:42,800 --> 00:10:46,360 Speaker 1: Working for Victor's demanding because he wants answers now, he 215 00:10:46,360 --> 00:10:50,480 Speaker 1: actually wants them five minutes ago, and he wants correctness. 216 00:10:50,920 --> 00:10:53,280 Speaker 1: And you if you not that I have how, but 217 00:10:53,320 --> 00:10:54,880 Speaker 1: I can tell you if you try to slot something 218 00:10:54,960 --> 00:10:57,840 Speaker 1: by him that just doesn't pass must or you're gonna 219 00:10:57,880 --> 00:11:01,960 Speaker 1: hear about it. And so he's a smart kid, which 220 00:11:02,000 --> 00:11:04,560 Speaker 1: is good for me, because you know me, guys, I 221 00:11:04,720 --> 00:11:06,800 Speaker 1: like to get a little technical with times and talk 222 00:11:06,840 --> 00:11:09,719 Speaker 1: about wrist angles and tilts and all that kind of 223 00:11:09,760 --> 00:11:11,920 Speaker 1: good stuff, and he loves it. He's that stuff like candy. 224 00:11:12,880 --> 00:11:15,280 Speaker 1: But at the end of the day, make no mistake 225 00:11:15,320 --> 00:11:19,600 Speaker 1: about it. What you have seen out of Victor the 226 00:11:19,679 --> 00:11:23,760 Speaker 1: last two weeks, specifically, what you've seen this year, It's 227 00:11:23,760 --> 00:11:29,800 Speaker 1: not been some magical, mythical golfing phenomenon that I've been 228 00:11:29,800 --> 00:11:32,360 Speaker 1: brought that I've brought him through teaching. You're just simply 229 00:11:32,440 --> 00:11:36,800 Speaker 1: dealing with a Ferrari. You're dealing with an absolute world 230 00:11:36,840 --> 00:11:40,240 Speaker 1: class primetime player. And as I said in an interview I 231 00:11:40,240 --> 00:11:44,520 Speaker 1: did a few days ago Withgitor International, all he needed 232 00:11:44,640 --> 00:11:46,520 Speaker 1: was a little good math and a little good science. 233 00:11:47,640 --> 00:11:50,600 Speaker 1: This is what I told Victor when we started. I said, 234 00:11:51,120 --> 00:11:54,800 Speaker 1: with your talent level, with your ability level, if my 235 00:11:54,960 --> 00:11:58,199 Speaker 1: information is correct, if what I'm telling you is correct, 236 00:11:58,240 --> 00:12:01,320 Speaker 1: then we must see results. There can be no other way. 237 00:12:02,800 --> 00:12:06,160 Speaker 1: And if we're not seeing results, then most likely what 238 00:12:06,240 --> 00:12:10,960 Speaker 1: I'm telling you is not valid. And guys, not to 239 00:12:11,040 --> 00:12:14,600 Speaker 1: fluff my feathers. But what I have told him to do, 240 00:12:14,679 --> 00:12:17,440 Speaker 1: he has caught on to it immediately. You guys have 241 00:12:17,600 --> 00:12:21,920 Speaker 1: seen the results. The golfing world has seen the results. 242 00:12:22,679 --> 00:12:26,600 Speaker 1: And one last little snippet, we did not be in 243 00:12:26,800 --> 00:12:29,880 Speaker 1: short game until Riviera on Tuesday. He had a photo 244 00:12:30,000 --> 00:12:34,120 Speaker 1: shoot on Monday. We started on Tuesday and he and 245 00:12:34,160 --> 00:12:37,480 Speaker 1: his caddy, Shay were standing there and his agent, butler 246 00:12:38,000 --> 00:12:41,320 Speaker 1: Butler Melnott were standing there with me, and I looked 247 00:12:41,360 --> 00:12:42,800 Speaker 1: at him and I said, guys, this isn't going to 248 00:12:42,840 --> 00:12:46,360 Speaker 1: take long. This ain't gonna take long. And I'm not 249 00:12:46,400 --> 00:12:49,679 Speaker 1: so sure they believe me, but I believe not in 250 00:12:50,600 --> 00:12:52,640 Speaker 1: what I'm saying. I believe that he could do it. 251 00:12:53,880 --> 00:12:56,960 Speaker 1: And as you guys have heard me say before, anybody 252 00:12:57,000 --> 00:12:59,800 Speaker 1: that can take a four iron and put it on 253 00:12:59,840 --> 00:13:01,720 Speaker 1: the back of the ball at one hundred and five 254 00:13:01,800 --> 00:13:03,959 Speaker 1: miles an hour and hit a shot dead straight from 255 00:13:03,960 --> 00:13:07,240 Speaker 1: two hundred and fifty yards away to a flag, don't 256 00:13:07,280 --> 00:13:10,319 Speaker 1: tell me he can't chip a golf ball. Don't tell 257 00:13:10,440 --> 00:13:12,760 Speaker 1: me that he can't pitch a golf ball because I 258 00:13:12,800 --> 00:13:17,120 Speaker 1: don't accept that theory. I don't accept that hypothesis that 259 00:13:17,200 --> 00:13:20,360 Speaker 1: this kid can't chip a golf ball. Yeah, and now 260 00:13:20,440 --> 00:13:22,600 Speaker 1: the world is seeing that he can. Yeah. 261 00:13:22,840 --> 00:13:25,040 Speaker 2: Joe kind of reminds me a little bit of you know, 262 00:13:25,160 --> 00:13:28,080 Speaker 2: Tiger had those struggles a little bit with chipping. It's 263 00:13:28,200 --> 00:13:31,160 Speaker 2: not a confidence thing. He doesn't need. He doesn't need 264 00:13:31,240 --> 00:13:34,680 Speaker 2: like a sports psychologist. He needs like mechanics. He needs 265 00:13:34,679 --> 00:13:36,520 Speaker 2: to improve the kinetics, you know what I mean, what 266 00:13:36,559 --> 00:13:40,880 Speaker 2: he's feeling. So give a little overview there of those 267 00:13:41,000 --> 00:13:44,480 Speaker 2: changes in the three D delivery and maybe some of 268 00:13:44,520 --> 00:13:47,480 Speaker 2: the angular rates right of victor short game, you know, 269 00:13:47,760 --> 00:13:50,080 Speaker 2: before and after some of these changes that were making 270 00:13:50,200 --> 00:13:53,679 Speaker 2: you know, angle of attack, delivery, things of that nature. 271 00:13:53,760 --> 00:13:56,720 Speaker 1: Well, first and foremost it is my opinion, I stress 272 00:13:56,760 --> 00:14:01,920 Speaker 1: opinion that people are bad shippers, or they become bad 273 00:14:01,960 --> 00:14:07,680 Speaker 1: shippers because they hit the ground too soon and or incorrectly. 274 00:14:09,080 --> 00:14:12,720 Speaker 1: And Victor Palvin was a living embodiment of hitting the 275 00:14:12,720 --> 00:14:14,679 Speaker 1: ground too soon and hitting it incorrectly. He had them 276 00:14:14,679 --> 00:14:17,319 Speaker 1: both going on. He had double whammies. And the more 277 00:14:17,360 --> 00:14:18,720 Speaker 1: he would stick it in the ground and the more 278 00:14:18,760 --> 00:14:20,200 Speaker 1: he would lay the sod over it, and the more 279 00:14:20,240 --> 00:14:22,320 Speaker 1: he would flob it, the more he believed he was 280 00:14:22,360 --> 00:14:26,440 Speaker 1: too steep. Yeah, I'm not engaging the bounce. Oh my god, 281 00:14:26,480 --> 00:14:29,360 Speaker 1: I've heard engaged the bounce for two million times. I've 282 00:14:29,400 --> 00:14:32,400 Speaker 1: heard that. And he believed that he was too steep. 283 00:14:32,680 --> 00:14:36,360 Speaker 1: Well as Marty, as you know, that was absolutely incorrect. 284 00:14:37,600 --> 00:14:41,720 Speaker 1: And all things being equal, a steep angle of attack 285 00:14:42,800 --> 00:14:45,480 Speaker 1: moves the low point more forward. And if the low 286 00:14:45,560 --> 00:14:47,800 Speaker 1: point is more forward or shall we say contact with 287 00:14:47,840 --> 00:14:50,520 Speaker 1: the ground, because contact with the grounds not thisssarily your 288 00:14:50,560 --> 00:14:52,360 Speaker 1: low point. I'm just trying to keep it simple for 289 00:14:52,400 --> 00:14:55,480 Speaker 1: our viewers our listeners. So as the angle of attack 290 00:14:55,520 --> 00:14:57,880 Speaker 1: becomes more steeper, all things being equal, the low point 291 00:14:57,880 --> 00:15:00,200 Speaker 1: becomes more forward. Well, if the low point or the 292 00:15:00,200 --> 00:15:02,920 Speaker 1: contact point with the ground is more forward, then that 293 00:15:02,960 --> 00:15:06,160 Speaker 1: means I'm not chili dipping it anymore. That means I'm 294 00:15:06,160 --> 00:15:09,600 Speaker 1: not fatting it anymore. It means I'm catching ball first, 295 00:15:10,520 --> 00:15:13,760 Speaker 1: And make no mistake about it. When you are trying 296 00:15:13,800 --> 00:15:15,720 Speaker 1: to chip at the PJ tort well, when you're trying 297 00:15:15,720 --> 00:15:20,680 Speaker 1: to chip at any level, if you cannot accurately predict contact, 298 00:15:20,720 --> 00:15:24,040 Speaker 1: if you cannot accurately predict the speed of the ball 299 00:15:24,080 --> 00:15:28,040 Speaker 1: off of that face, you cannot chip, and you sure 300 00:15:28,440 --> 00:15:30,720 Speaker 1: cannot chip at the tour level. So what I did 301 00:15:30,880 --> 00:15:33,000 Speaker 1: was I said, no, you're not too steep or too shallow. 302 00:15:33,600 --> 00:15:37,040 Speaker 1: We started moving the angle of attack dramatically more down. 303 00:15:37,120 --> 00:15:38,760 Speaker 1: When he came to me, his angle of attack on 304 00:15:38,800 --> 00:15:40,720 Speaker 1: a chip or a pitch was three or four degrees down, 305 00:15:41,880 --> 00:15:45,360 Speaker 1: and now it's twelve. He can stand there and rip 306 00:15:45,440 --> 00:15:48,600 Speaker 1: them all day long with his eyes closed now, because 307 00:15:48,760 --> 00:15:54,000 Speaker 1: what the technique has allowed him to do is catch good, 308 00:15:54,040 --> 00:15:59,480 Speaker 1: solid contact with a high frequency, which allows him to 309 00:15:59,560 --> 00:16:01,320 Speaker 1: predict what the ball is going to do before he 310 00:16:01,400 --> 00:16:03,800 Speaker 1: hits it. And if you think about it in common 311 00:16:03,840 --> 00:16:06,800 Speaker 1: sense terms, that's that's that's that's the good sauce. That's 312 00:16:06,800 --> 00:16:08,640 Speaker 1: that's the secret to chimping is being able to predict 313 00:16:08,640 --> 00:16:11,160 Speaker 1: what the ball is going to do. Uh. And with 314 00:16:11,200 --> 00:16:13,760 Speaker 1: that steep angle attack, now that low point is dramatically 315 00:16:13,800 --> 00:16:18,120 Speaker 1: more forward, which increases the probability of a solid hit. 316 00:16:18,680 --> 00:16:23,360 Speaker 1: That's all he needed, guys. And unfortunately he was told, well, 317 00:16:23,640 --> 00:16:26,000 Speaker 1: you can't shift if your wrist angles like that going back. 318 00:16:26,040 --> 00:16:28,800 Speaker 1: Well we know that's true because Jordan Spied does it, 319 00:16:28,840 --> 00:16:31,040 Speaker 1: and Dustin Johnson does it, and Brooks Koepka does it. 320 00:16:31,040 --> 00:16:33,160 Speaker 1: And the last time I checked, they're all major champions. 321 00:16:33,200 --> 00:16:36,000 Speaker 1: They were all normal in the world. When I showed 322 00:16:36,040 --> 00:16:39,080 Speaker 1: him those videos of those guys doing that, there was 323 00:16:39,120 --> 00:16:43,040 Speaker 1: like a light bulb moment. He was like wow, because 324 00:16:43,400 --> 00:16:46,600 Speaker 1: all this time he had been trying to roll that 325 00:16:46,800 --> 00:16:51,760 Speaker 1: risk in the backswing cup cup that wrist. No one 326 00:16:51,880 --> 00:16:54,560 Speaker 1: had ever said, no, no, no, no, no no no. Let's 327 00:16:54,600 --> 00:16:58,000 Speaker 1: get the bottom vector of spin loft, which for the 328 00:16:58,080 --> 00:17:01,720 Speaker 1: viewers out here, that's the angle of attack. Let's work 329 00:17:01,760 --> 00:17:05,320 Speaker 1: on the bottom vector, which moves the low point forward, 330 00:17:05,359 --> 00:17:08,720 Speaker 1: which allows you to predict contact. Because Marty, this is 331 00:17:08,800 --> 00:17:11,000 Speaker 1: what I believe to be true when we're talking spin loft. 332 00:17:11,000 --> 00:17:12,919 Speaker 1: And you know, Victor had that little spin loft thing 333 00:17:12,960 --> 00:17:14,400 Speaker 1: on the interview the other day. He said he learns 334 00:17:14,400 --> 00:17:16,879 Speaker 1: spin loft. Well, as we know, spin loft is just 335 00:17:16,920 --> 00:17:19,040 Speaker 1: an angle. You got the angle attack on the bottom, 336 00:17:19,080 --> 00:17:21,800 Speaker 1: you got the dynamic loft on the top. In my opinion, 337 00:17:22,160 --> 00:17:26,400 Speaker 1: the bottom vector is where the money's made. Anybody can 338 00:17:26,440 --> 00:17:28,680 Speaker 1: have a good top vector. I can just just open 339 00:17:28,720 --> 00:17:31,960 Speaker 1: the face that points the top vector up in there. 340 00:17:32,080 --> 00:17:35,280 Speaker 1: Just open the face, yep. But bottom vector that's where 341 00:17:35,280 --> 00:17:37,840 Speaker 1: the money is made, and that was his problem, and 342 00:17:37,880 --> 00:17:41,320 Speaker 1: in my opinion, it is the problem when people cannot 343 00:17:41,359 --> 00:17:44,240 Speaker 1: chip and pitch. They don't have the low point or 344 00:17:44,280 --> 00:17:46,520 Speaker 1: the contact point with the ground far and a forward. 345 00:17:46,600 --> 00:17:50,840 Speaker 1: Therefore they're hitting the ground too soon and then they're 346 00:17:50,880 --> 00:17:55,520 Speaker 1: hitting it incorrectly. And after about ten thousand unsuccessful attempts, 347 00:17:56,160 --> 00:17:59,160 Speaker 1: then you start doing things to not hit the ground, 348 00:17:59,800 --> 00:18:02,439 Speaker 1: and that's when this thing can get sideways quickly. 349 00:18:03,240 --> 00:18:05,760 Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, Joe, I was just gonna ask, how did 350 00:18:05,800 --> 00:18:08,879 Speaker 3: you and Victor? How did you guys get in contact? 351 00:18:08,960 --> 00:18:12,199 Speaker 3: Like what was that initial introduction like to start to 352 00:18:12,240 --> 00:18:12,720 Speaker 3: work together. 353 00:18:13,560 --> 00:18:15,480 Speaker 1: I called him he needed to loan me money? When 354 00:18:15,480 --> 00:18:17,280 Speaker 1: not to play poker with? I needed a loan, So 355 00:18:17,359 --> 00:18:19,760 Speaker 1: that's what I called him, though, I'm just kidding. I'm 356 00:18:19,760 --> 00:18:20,680 Speaker 1: just kidding. 357 00:18:21,400 --> 00:18:23,520 Speaker 3: Hey, listen, now you can call him and I think 358 00:18:23,680 --> 00:18:25,440 Speaker 3: he'd probably give you that loan pretty quick. 359 00:18:25,880 --> 00:18:27,680 Speaker 1: No, he won't give it to me, or he'll charge 360 00:18:27,680 --> 00:18:31,760 Speaker 1: me twenty percent interest. So no, he's no. The Bank 361 00:18:31,800 --> 00:18:36,040 Speaker 1: of Hobblood is closed up. Not getting in there. I've 362 00:18:36,040 --> 00:18:41,399 Speaker 1: known Victor now five years, give or take. Met him 363 00:18:41,440 --> 00:18:43,560 Speaker 1: when I went to Oklahoma State coach Bratton and coach 364 00:18:43,640 --> 00:18:45,119 Speaker 1: Darr out there had me out there to do a 365 00:18:45,119 --> 00:18:47,199 Speaker 1: little chatting with them. I met him, I met him 366 00:18:47,240 --> 00:18:50,560 Speaker 1: Ben and we stayed in contact. But Victor contacted me 367 00:18:50,600 --> 00:18:55,040 Speaker 1: in late twenty nineteen, I believe it was October. He 368 00:18:55,119 --> 00:18:57,639 Speaker 1: sent me his swings and I did a video analysis 369 00:18:57,640 --> 00:18:59,600 Speaker 1: like this. He was like a twenty minute analysis where 370 00:18:59,600 --> 00:19:02,199 Speaker 1: I was pre to him and guys, this is the 371 00:19:02,200 --> 00:19:05,680 Speaker 1: honest truth. Sent that video analysis to coach Brighton, coach 372 00:19:05,760 --> 00:19:08,919 Speaker 1: Dharr because I wanted complete transparency. I wanted everyone to 373 00:19:08,960 --> 00:19:11,640 Speaker 1: hear what I was saying to this kid. I told him, 374 00:19:11,680 --> 00:19:14,560 Speaker 1: if I'm not mistaken, I told him five times in 375 00:19:14,640 --> 00:19:19,320 Speaker 1: that video, stay away from golf instruction, stay away from golf, 376 00:19:19,480 --> 00:19:23,919 Speaker 1: including me. Stay away. You are going bleat. It's a 377 00:19:23,920 --> 00:19:26,320 Speaker 1: matter of time. And I said, you need a good 378 00:19:26,320 --> 00:19:29,240 Speaker 1: caddy and a good lawyer, not a good golf bro. 379 00:19:30,720 --> 00:19:33,359 Speaker 1: So he decided to come out and see me in 380 00:19:33,480 --> 00:19:36,320 Speaker 1: November of twenty nineteen and we went out to TPC 381 00:19:36,440 --> 00:19:39,920 Speaker 1: Summerlin and he just put on a ball hitting exhibition. 382 00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:42,719 Speaker 1: He's hitting four irons off the ground, He's barely touching 383 00:19:42,760 --> 00:19:46,520 Speaker 1: the turf, launching this thing two forty straight as you 384 00:19:46,520 --> 00:19:49,120 Speaker 1: can point. He put out the driver and he's hitting 385 00:19:49,119 --> 00:19:51,080 Speaker 1: it out there three hundred and twenty yards with a 386 00:19:51,160 --> 00:19:53,320 Speaker 1: two yard cut. And when it was over, he said, 387 00:19:53,320 --> 00:19:57,000 Speaker 1: what do you think. I think that you don't need 388 00:19:57,040 --> 00:20:00,200 Speaker 1: a golf instructors. What I think? And we went back 389 00:20:00,240 --> 00:20:02,600 Speaker 1: to my house that night and I had a little 390 00:20:02,640 --> 00:20:06,359 Speaker 1: bourbon and I said, Victor, you're a great kid. I 391 00:20:06,800 --> 00:20:09,040 Speaker 1: want to be your friend. And I said, if if 392 00:20:09,080 --> 00:20:12,200 Speaker 1: you want to drink bourbon, if you want to play poker, 393 00:20:12,320 --> 00:20:15,280 Speaker 1: that's fine. I'm your guy. But we're not going to 394 00:20:15,320 --> 00:20:18,480 Speaker 1: do golf instruction. We're not gonna do that. So as 395 00:20:18,480 --> 00:20:21,960 Speaker 1: an instructor, guys, As an instructor, I knew that I 396 00:20:22,040 --> 00:20:25,679 Speaker 1: had a generational talent sitting in front of me. I 397 00:20:25,800 --> 00:20:28,119 Speaker 1: knew that I had a player sitting in front of 398 00:20:28,160 --> 00:20:32,080 Speaker 1: me that quote unquote could take me places. He could 399 00:20:32,119 --> 00:20:35,560 Speaker 1: he could take me places. I was not going to 400 00:20:35,640 --> 00:20:38,959 Speaker 1: have that. I was not going to allow that. He 401 00:20:39,040 --> 00:20:42,040 Speaker 1: did not need my help. He did not need instruction, 402 00:20:42,200 --> 00:20:47,000 Speaker 1: in my opinion. And I told him no. And that's 403 00:20:47,040 --> 00:20:49,399 Speaker 1: a factual statement. If you asked Victor, he'll tell you that. 404 00:20:49,480 --> 00:20:52,280 Speaker 1: And then he went on his way. And fast forward 405 00:20:52,320 --> 00:20:54,159 Speaker 1: to December, he calls me and says, Joe, would you 406 00:20:54,200 --> 00:20:57,600 Speaker 1: take a look at some swings? And I did, and 407 00:20:57,680 --> 00:21:02,359 Speaker 1: when I saw them, I hit rid. I'll immediately, I said, Victor, 408 00:21:02,480 --> 00:21:06,800 Speaker 1: what on earth is going on? And I gave him 409 00:21:07,040 --> 00:21:10,679 Speaker 1: some preliminary thoughts on what to do. He was not 410 00:21:10,920 --> 00:21:14,840 Speaker 1: extending his nearly fast enough. We'll just keep it there 411 00:21:14,920 --> 00:21:18,720 Speaker 1: to make it short and sweet. Had some success, comes 412 00:21:18,720 --> 00:21:21,880 Speaker 1: out to see me in Las Vegas. We go out 413 00:21:21,920 --> 00:21:26,240 Speaker 1: to the Summit Club and when he called me in December, 414 00:21:26,280 --> 00:21:27,840 Speaker 1: his angle of attack with a seven n iron was 415 00:21:27,880 --> 00:21:30,960 Speaker 1: almost nine degrees down, eight and a half degrees down. 416 00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:32,880 Speaker 1: And as I said five minutes ago, when that angle 417 00:21:32,880 --> 00:21:36,440 Speaker 1: of attack is down, that's trying to push the path 418 00:21:36,520 --> 00:21:40,520 Speaker 1: to the right. He's trying to get cuts pass moving 419 00:21:40,520 --> 00:21:42,440 Speaker 1: to the right. And the more he tried to swing 420 00:21:42,520 --> 00:21:44,480 Speaker 1: out into the left, the more the angle of attack 421 00:21:44,640 --> 00:21:47,439 Speaker 1: went down, which the path went to the right. He 422 00:21:47,560 --> 00:21:50,159 Speaker 1: was a cat chasing its tail. He couldn't get the 423 00:21:50,200 --> 00:21:53,200 Speaker 1: path left of the face. When he comes out to 424 00:21:53,280 --> 00:21:55,680 Speaker 1: Vegas and I get him to extend his hips, angle 425 00:21:55,680 --> 00:21:58,480 Speaker 1: of attack goes to four degrees down immediately, and now 426 00:21:58,880 --> 00:22:01,560 Speaker 1: he can get the path over to the left of 427 00:22:01,600 --> 00:22:05,240 Speaker 1: the face and start cutting the ball. But the big 428 00:22:05,280 --> 00:22:07,960 Speaker 1: deal was I sent him down to Dallas, Texas to 429 00:22:08,040 --> 00:22:11,159 Speaker 1: see my good friend John Sinclair and Marty. I know 430 00:22:11,240 --> 00:22:15,840 Speaker 1: you know John, and I trust John Sinclair implicitly when 431 00:22:15,880 --> 00:22:19,080 Speaker 1: it comes to three D capture, specifically with AMM three D, 432 00:22:19,160 --> 00:22:22,760 Speaker 1: which in my opinion, as of today, it's the best. 433 00:22:23,119 --> 00:22:25,719 Speaker 1: It's the best we have today, and John is the 434 00:22:25,720 --> 00:22:29,000 Speaker 1: best with that. And never forget what I'm about to 435 00:22:29,040 --> 00:22:31,960 Speaker 1: say for you instructors out there, if you ever are 436 00:22:32,160 --> 00:22:36,200 Speaker 1: fortunate enough to teach a player of this caliber, you 437 00:22:36,760 --> 00:22:40,600 Speaker 1: must get three D. You must because the camera will 438 00:22:40,640 --> 00:22:42,359 Speaker 1: lie to you, your eyes will lie to you, and 439 00:22:42,640 --> 00:22:44,520 Speaker 1: if you didn't need three D, there would be no 440 00:22:44,560 --> 00:22:48,359 Speaker 1: such thing. But I knew that dealing with Victor and 441 00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:51,119 Speaker 1: dealing with a player of this caliber, I had to know. 442 00:22:52,119 --> 00:22:57,320 Speaker 1: I sent him down there. My suspicions were confirmed, not 443 00:22:57,440 --> 00:23:01,040 Speaker 1: to say, wow, Joe, you're right, but fisions were confirmed 444 00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:04,880 Speaker 1: which allowed me to then proceed further down the road 445 00:23:04,920 --> 00:23:10,400 Speaker 1: of helping him. And there is no way, no way 446 00:23:10,440 --> 00:23:12,679 Speaker 1: that I'm going to touch the golf swing of a 447 00:23:12,680 --> 00:23:15,399 Speaker 1: player at this level without knowing what I'm doing, and 448 00:23:15,480 --> 00:23:17,920 Speaker 1: the way to know what you're doing is to get 449 00:23:17,920 --> 00:23:18,320 Speaker 1: to three D. 450 00:23:19,640 --> 00:23:22,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, Joe, I like to think about that as like, 451 00:23:22,359 --> 00:23:25,760 Speaker 2: you know, maybe you you fall, you got an injury 452 00:23:25,800 --> 00:23:29,320 Speaker 2: on your arm, it looks bruised, let's take an X ray. 453 00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:31,840 Speaker 2: That might be what you can do with your launch monitor. 454 00:23:32,280 --> 00:23:34,520 Speaker 2: But then you got to get an MRI, right, and 455 00:23:34,560 --> 00:23:37,439 Speaker 2: then you know, so that's kind of the spectrum. You know, 456 00:23:37,520 --> 00:23:40,040 Speaker 2: you're not going to treat that without getting the MRI. 457 00:23:40,280 --> 00:23:43,040 Speaker 2: And that's that's where I think, you know, the future 458 00:23:43,119 --> 00:23:45,520 Speaker 2: is very bright for the everyday golfer because more and 459 00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:48,720 Speaker 2: more that technology is coming right and we're using things 460 00:23:48,760 --> 00:23:52,359 Speaker 2: like learnings from our focal our three D motion system, 461 00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:55,280 Speaker 2: which is very focused on what the club is doing, 462 00:23:56,960 --> 00:24:00,439 Speaker 2: and passing along insights from there to the everyday golfer. 463 00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:02,840 Speaker 2: One interesting thing Joe I wanted to ask you about 464 00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:06,399 Speaker 2: Victor was he has the lowest you know, there's a 465 00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:09,879 Speaker 2: lot of different ways we can define closure rate, but 466 00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:12,600 Speaker 2: he has the lowest closure rate of any of our 467 00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:16,480 Speaker 2: tour players we've measured. This means like coming in from 468 00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:20,280 Speaker 2: P six chaft parallel to the ground to impact, that 469 00:24:20,359 --> 00:24:24,600 Speaker 2: face is already relatively square and it's only closing like 470 00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:27,879 Speaker 2: twenty degrees from P six to impact, where we know 471 00:24:27,960 --> 00:24:29,879 Speaker 2: one of our other tour players it might be forty 472 00:24:29,920 --> 00:24:32,800 Speaker 2: to fifty degrees right in there. Right, what is the 473 00:24:32,840 --> 00:24:37,160 Speaker 2: relation between Victor's unique wrist angles and that closure rate? 474 00:24:37,600 --> 00:24:40,199 Speaker 2: And then my relate to that, to that Joe is like, 475 00:24:40,760 --> 00:24:42,520 Speaker 2: you know, how do you tie what he does in 476 00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:44,639 Speaker 2: his full swing to his short game? And maybe that 477 00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:48,080 Speaker 2: can that could come second to that that question, Well. 478 00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:51,479 Speaker 1: The first answer touching on right closure, yes, he is. 479 00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:53,680 Speaker 1: When Johnston Claiter measure is the lowest I've ever measured 480 00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:55,960 Speaker 1: in John's statabase is probably two hundred players, two Hunred 481 00:24:55,960 --> 00:24:58,560 Speaker 1: tour players. Yeah, I want to make it perfectly clear. 482 00:24:58,600 --> 00:25:00,520 Speaker 1: I had nothing to do with this right of QUI stuff. 483 00:25:00,560 --> 00:25:03,040 Speaker 1: I had nothing to do with that. Yeah, I'm not 484 00:25:03,119 --> 00:25:06,560 Speaker 1: so certain any instructor alive can touch into that. As 485 00:25:06,600 --> 00:25:08,680 Speaker 1: you know, Marty, rate of closure is a touchy subject 486 00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:13,879 Speaker 1: how it's measured. Yes, but let's be fair, let's be honest. 487 00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:15,879 Speaker 1: There are world class players who have a high rate 488 00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:20,280 Speaker 1: of closure. Yes, there are, uh and the key word 489 00:25:20,359 --> 00:25:23,199 Speaker 1: is rate. So if you look at a player that 490 00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:28,320 Speaker 1: has this this big swivel after impact, that doesn't mean 491 00:25:28,359 --> 00:25:30,680 Speaker 1: they had a high rate of closure because they could 492 00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:34,560 Speaker 1: have been closing this thing all the way down, which 493 00:25:34,600 --> 00:25:37,600 Speaker 1: means the rate is not quick. The rate was slow. 494 00:25:38,119 --> 00:25:41,760 Speaker 1: The total amount of closure was great, but the rate 495 00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:45,399 Speaker 1: of closure was high. But as far as Victor is concerned, Marty, 496 00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:50,719 Speaker 1: I had nothing to do with it. How he learned 497 00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:51,240 Speaker 1: to do that? 498 00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:54,800 Speaker 2: Go ahead, Marty, because yeah I could could Yeah, I 499 00:25:54,840 --> 00:25:56,600 Speaker 2: could just be how he grew up playing and and 500 00:25:56,680 --> 00:25:59,120 Speaker 2: what what those risk conditions are, and how that kind 501 00:25:59,119 --> 00:26:02,280 Speaker 2: of relates. I think related to that, Joe would just be, 502 00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:06,320 Speaker 2: you know, and you talked about his wrist angles and 503 00:26:06,359 --> 00:26:08,800 Speaker 2: what you've seen given him permission to play with a 504 00:26:08,800 --> 00:26:11,960 Speaker 2: certain risk condition in his short game. Has that helped 505 00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:16,600 Speaker 2: Mary now that he's performing so good with short game 506 00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:19,240 Speaker 2: and full swing together at the same time. 507 00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:21,919 Speaker 1: I think it's absolutely critical because as I told you before, 508 00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:24,840 Speaker 1: you know, everyone wanted him to roll that form and 509 00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:28,640 Speaker 1: cut that wrist that's one hundred eighty degrees against his DNA. 510 00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:31,359 Speaker 1: How are you supposed to step up on a green 511 00:26:31,400 --> 00:26:35,520 Speaker 1: at Augusta, Nashal on Sunday at the Masters and roll 512 00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:38,560 Speaker 1: your form, cut your wrist, roll the face wide open, 513 00:26:38,560 --> 00:26:40,640 Speaker 1: and hit a chip shot off of that tight line 514 00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:43,760 Speaker 1: on national television trying to win a green jacket. It's 515 00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:46,000 Speaker 1: not gonna happen. And as I said, when he saw 516 00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:50,440 Speaker 1: the videos of Dustin Brooks and Jordan, it gave him 517 00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:54,119 Speaker 1: the freedom mentally to say, wait a minute, this is okay. Yeah, 518 00:26:54,160 --> 00:26:55,719 Speaker 1: And this is what I told him. I said, if 519 00:26:55,720 --> 00:26:57,560 Speaker 1: you want the face open, just open the darn thing 520 00:26:57,560 --> 00:27:00,960 Speaker 1: in address. Just just let it. Lay it wide open 521 00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:03,280 Speaker 1: on the bunker, lay it flatten the bunker opened the 522 00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:07,560 Speaker 1: face of a dress. And I think, without question, part 523 00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:09,359 Speaker 1: of his success of being able to pick up on 524 00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:13,560 Speaker 1: this stuff was I did not tamper anyway with grill 525 00:27:14,280 --> 00:27:18,400 Speaker 1: for rotations and wrist angles. I did not so any 526 00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:21,920 Speaker 1: of the little finite moves that he's making that's on him. 527 00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:23,720 Speaker 4: Yeah, I didn't touch it, Joe. 528 00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:26,280 Speaker 3: I was interested in something you said earlier about the 529 00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:29,720 Speaker 3: golf swing, like when we first started about how there's 530 00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:32,199 Speaker 3: so many unique ways to do this now and how 531 00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:34,680 Speaker 3: we're learning so much more about the golf swing. There 532 00:27:34,760 --> 00:27:37,639 Speaker 3: was a time, you know, around the two thousands with Tiger. 533 00:27:38,040 --> 00:27:40,520 Speaker 3: It was Tiger, it was Adam Scott, and it was 534 00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:44,160 Speaker 3: this perfect move, right, everybody's got to have this perfect move. 535 00:27:44,520 --> 00:27:47,879 Speaker 3: Are we going towards a world where the best in 536 00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:50,520 Speaker 3: the world's golf swings are all going to look relatively different, 537 00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:53,600 Speaker 3: considering guys like Victor can kind of do it in 538 00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:55,840 Speaker 3: a different way than a Rory does it or a 539 00:27:55,840 --> 00:27:58,040 Speaker 3: Brooks does it and be just as effective. 540 00:27:59,320 --> 00:28:01,000 Speaker 1: I don't think we're gowing that direction. I think we're 541 00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:04,880 Speaker 1: already there. We've always been there. Jack Nicholas and Lee 542 00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:10,119 Speaker 1: Trevino looked nothing alike nothing, and Roy looks nothing like Victor. 543 00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:13,760 Speaker 1: Victor has a little John Romney stuff going on, and 544 00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:16,680 Speaker 1: you're just a little bit. The only thing they've got 545 00:28:16,680 --> 00:28:18,440 Speaker 1: in common is are holding on to a golf club 546 00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:22,920 Speaker 1: getting the ball. I think now with three d uh 547 00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:28,480 Speaker 1: and with information being released, it's helping the instructor understand 548 00:28:28,560 --> 00:28:30,600 Speaker 1: what's going on and say, you know what, it's okay 549 00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:33,159 Speaker 1: to be different. And I'm just gonna go on the 550 00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:39,320 Speaker 1: record right now with Victor hoven Uh. Anybody that tampers 551 00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:44,320 Speaker 1: with that gross motor pattern, that overall gross motor pattern, 552 00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:47,400 Speaker 1: that signature that he has, you should be horse whipped 553 00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:52,880 Speaker 1: because you are looking at a world class machine. And guys, 554 00:28:53,360 --> 00:28:56,480 Speaker 1: what I've done with him has been minimalistic, and I 555 00:28:56,640 --> 00:28:58,280 Speaker 1: just tried to put him back to what he used 556 00:28:58,280 --> 00:29:01,120 Speaker 1: to be. That's all, nothing more. And I want to 557 00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:04,640 Speaker 1: stress the credit goes to the kid. Yeah, involvement in 558 00:29:04,760 --> 00:29:07,920 Speaker 1: this was you know, like I said, just a little 559 00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:11,080 Speaker 1: bit of math, just a little bit, but yeah, that 560 00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:14,320 Speaker 1: is that you're looking at a finely tuned machine. And 561 00:29:14,840 --> 00:29:17,920 Speaker 1: I also want to say, if we had a clone 562 00:29:17,920 --> 00:29:20,800 Speaker 1: of Victor, if we had Victor A and Victor B 563 00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:24,040 Speaker 1: and they're both standing on the range hitting balls, and 564 00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:28,120 Speaker 1: Victor B cosmetically looks like Victor A, that doesn't mean 565 00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:30,680 Speaker 1: Victor B is going to play like Victor A. The 566 00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:33,880 Speaker 1: cosmetics are just that part of it. When we start 567 00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:37,480 Speaker 1: talking about kinetics, then you've got to ask yourself, what 568 00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:41,560 Speaker 1: about the emotional component that Victor has to play golf 569 00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:45,240 Speaker 1: under this tremendous pressure. There's not an instructor on the 570 00:29:45,320 --> 00:29:47,120 Speaker 1: face of this earth that can teach that. 571 00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:50,320 Speaker 2: Joe, I want to talk a little bit about friction. 572 00:29:50,600 --> 00:29:54,160 Speaker 2: So you mentioned Victor's more down now and he's getting 573 00:29:54,240 --> 00:29:57,760 Speaker 2: more predictability out of his shots. So in my mind, 574 00:29:57,800 --> 00:29:59,920 Speaker 2: from the physics of it, it's it's a double win. 575 00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:03,840 Speaker 2: It's you get more predictability of where he's going to 576 00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:06,160 Speaker 2: land that club or the low point or the interaction 577 00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:08,640 Speaker 2: between the ball and the face. And the other one 578 00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:10,640 Speaker 2: that compounds that and adds to it is you get 579 00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:14,720 Speaker 2: better predictability of the coefficient of friction. Yeah, so we 580 00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:17,480 Speaker 2: kind of define that as MEW. We've talked about this 581 00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:19,560 Speaker 2: this thing MEW. Victor and I, Me and you and 582 00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:22,200 Speaker 2: Victor have this funny running joke going about it. But 583 00:30:22,360 --> 00:30:25,040 Speaker 2: the more you hit down, the less time you have 584 00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:28,040 Speaker 2: to pick up water debris, get grasp between the ball 585 00:30:28,080 --> 00:30:30,680 Speaker 2: and the face. He's also switched to our glide wedges, 586 00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:33,560 Speaker 2: so we have really we have a hydro pearl finish 587 00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:37,320 Speaker 2: which sheds the water. It's hydrophobic and this type of stuff. Overall, 588 00:30:37,360 --> 00:30:42,000 Speaker 2: we're just kind of compounding the alignments with having a 589 00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:45,360 Speaker 2: better predictability of the friction. And I think that's also 590 00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:48,040 Speaker 2: as a player, what's put you at ease, right, it's 591 00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:51,280 Speaker 2: that unpredictability that can kind of drive you crazy with 592 00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:53,120 Speaker 2: the short game, right one hundred. 593 00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:55,320 Speaker 1: Percent, Marty Well said, because think of it like this 594 00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:58,760 Speaker 1: guy is because now that he can predict contact, now 595 00:30:58,840 --> 00:31:01,800 Speaker 1: that the bottom of vec or is doing its job, 596 00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:06,400 Speaker 1: now he can predict spin loft, which, as we know, 597 00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:09,680 Speaker 1: the spin loft predicts ball speed and spin rate. 598 00:31:10,240 --> 00:31:11,000 Speaker 2: Yeah. 599 00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:14,760 Speaker 1: And what's amazing, guys, is this he now finds himself 600 00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:20,400 Speaker 1: swinging the club faster and the ball's going slower. Ye. Yes, ah. 601 00:31:20,520 --> 00:31:22,760 Speaker 1: And I remember long ago when I was on Twitter, 602 00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:25,240 Speaker 1: back in the old track man Maestro days, good lord, 603 00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:28,400 Speaker 1: I made a tweet long long ago and I said, 604 00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:31,840 Speaker 1: the expert golfer knows how to speed the ball up 605 00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:34,280 Speaker 1: in the long game and slow it down in the 606 00:31:34,280 --> 00:31:37,520 Speaker 1: short game. Yes, the poor golfer slows it down in 607 00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:39,600 Speaker 1: the long game and speeds it up in the short game. 608 00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:41,440 Speaker 4: They do. 609 00:31:42,360 --> 00:31:45,240 Speaker 1: And the key for this is we want you know, obviously, 610 00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:47,160 Speaker 1: there's times in a short game where you want the 611 00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:49,360 Speaker 1: ball kind of hot and running. There's times when you 612 00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:51,040 Speaker 1: don't want it spending a lot, I get it. But 613 00:31:51,240 --> 00:31:54,160 Speaker 1: generally speaking, in the short game, we want slow balls. 614 00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:58,800 Speaker 1: We want slow ball speed, we want high spin generally speaking. 615 00:31:58,840 --> 00:32:03,200 Speaker 1: And as you said, Marty, that comes from friction and 616 00:32:03,240 --> 00:32:07,120 Speaker 1: it comes from spin loft. And now he has both. 617 00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:11,600 Speaker 1: And when a player of Victor's talent level, when they 618 00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:13,920 Speaker 1: get out there and they do this, you know, a 619 00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:16,640 Speaker 1: few hundred times a few thousand times, and he sees 620 00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:17,880 Speaker 1: the predictability. 621 00:32:19,120 --> 00:32:19,680 Speaker 4: It's game on. 622 00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:22,680 Speaker 2: I want to bring up something that's topical to the 623 00:32:22,720 --> 00:32:25,920 Speaker 2: top to friction, which is Shane. Shane is on a 624 00:32:25,960 --> 00:32:28,400 Speaker 2: golf heater himself right now. He just he just played 625 00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:32,560 Speaker 2: in the USAM at Cherry Hills a few weeks ago 626 00:32:32,800 --> 00:32:34,760 Speaker 2: and just made a hole in one. And what is it, 627 00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:39,360 Speaker 2: Shane the Connecticut Midam recently. Yeah, Yeah, tell us about 628 00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:41,360 Speaker 2: your hole in one, what club you hit? What was 629 00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:43,440 Speaker 2: the yard age? Did you see the ball up or not? 630 00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:45,560 Speaker 2: Because this kind of relates to that friction topic. 631 00:32:45,840 --> 00:32:48,719 Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean friction was involved. It was. 632 00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:50,680 Speaker 3: It was kind of like a little shorty Part three 633 00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:53,520 Speaker 3: was about one hundred and twenty yards and I ted 634 00:32:53,560 --> 00:32:56,200 Speaker 3: up sand wedge and ripped it back into the hole. 635 00:32:56,360 --> 00:32:59,120 Speaker 3: So it was one of the holes in one you 636 00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:03,200 Speaker 3: dream of hitting that actually spin back in Joe. But yeah, 637 00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:05,200 Speaker 3: I got a lot of Yeah, got a lot of 638 00:33:05,360 --> 00:33:07,160 Speaker 3: got a lot of spin off of tea. I feel 639 00:33:07,160 --> 00:33:08,840 Speaker 3: like some of the time when you tee it up, 640 00:33:09,160 --> 00:33:11,240 Speaker 3: maybe I don't rip it back as much because I'm 641 00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:13,600 Speaker 3: not hitting down into it. But you obviously would would 642 00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:15,320 Speaker 3: would know more about that than I would. 643 00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:18,040 Speaker 1: Well be careful when you just say it comes from 644 00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:21,760 Speaker 1: hitting down into it. It comes from not only the 645 00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:24,440 Speaker 1: hitting down part, but the loft. Remember, you got to 646 00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:26,320 Speaker 1: get the spin loft to open up. But when you 647 00:33:26,360 --> 00:33:29,400 Speaker 1: put the ball on the tee, you highly increase the 648 00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:32,400 Speaker 1: probability of clean contact, which means you highly increase the 649 00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:35,560 Speaker 1: probability of the friction, which that's where the spinner is 650 00:33:35,560 --> 00:33:38,240 Speaker 1: gonna come from. So the viewers or the listeners need 651 00:33:38,280 --> 00:33:41,480 Speaker 1: to be cautioned that hitting down in and of itself 652 00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:45,320 Speaker 1: is not the answer, because remember spin loft has two components. 653 00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:47,760 Speaker 1: You got the down and you got the loft. I could, 654 00:33:47,800 --> 00:33:51,240 Speaker 1: I could. I could hit down more and just take 655 00:33:51,240 --> 00:33:53,680 Speaker 1: the loft with me. I need to hit down more 656 00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:56,600 Speaker 1: and get the loft. I need to open that angle up. 657 00:33:56,640 --> 00:33:58,840 Speaker 1: I need to open that thing up. Right there, you go. 658 00:33:58,960 --> 00:34:02,320 Speaker 1: Need to open that spin loft angle up. And when 659 00:34:02,360 --> 00:34:03,680 Speaker 1: you do that with friction, you're going to get that 660 00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:06,040 Speaker 1: high spin rate, no question about it. 661 00:34:06,640 --> 00:34:08,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's one of the fun things about that topic 662 00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:12,200 Speaker 2: of spin loft Mountain Joe, is that the cleaner the friction, 663 00:34:12,440 --> 00:34:14,879 Speaker 2: so the better your lie. You're off a tee, your 664 00:34:15,120 --> 00:34:17,400 Speaker 2: zoysia a lot of folks out there get fit or 665 00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:22,839 Speaker 2: evaluate equipment indoors. Right, you have really clean contact, then 666 00:34:22,920 --> 00:34:25,959 Speaker 2: your maximum spin or the peak of that spin loft 667 00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:28,560 Speaker 2: mountain is gonna be when your spin loft is much 668 00:34:28,640 --> 00:34:31,000 Speaker 2: much greater. Right, that's where you can get tons of 669 00:34:31,040 --> 00:34:33,759 Speaker 2: spin off of tea correct. But then chip, you know, 670 00:34:33,880 --> 00:34:36,759 Speaker 2: normal chipping and short game and this kind of goes 671 00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:39,760 Speaker 2: back Shane, I kind of thought of that topic of Shay. 672 00:34:39,920 --> 00:34:42,920 Speaker 2: Victor's caddy talked about the wind being light and variable 673 00:34:43,040 --> 00:34:46,719 Speaker 2: r give some nightmares. Well, I think reading your lie 674 00:34:46,719 --> 00:34:50,279 Speaker 2: around the greens, you got light and variable friction. You know, 675 00:34:50,360 --> 00:34:52,600 Speaker 2: it's kind of light and variable wind, and that's where 676 00:34:52,640 --> 00:34:55,399 Speaker 2: a lot of that short game in predicting the lie, 677 00:34:55,440 --> 00:34:57,520 Speaker 2: reading the lie in Joe, I think that's where you've 678 00:34:57,560 --> 00:34:59,600 Speaker 2: done magic with Victor, getting to hit more down, get 679 00:34:59,640 --> 00:35:02,800 Speaker 2: more clean contact, more predictable friction, a higher percentage of 680 00:35:02,840 --> 00:35:03,600 Speaker 2: the time. 681 00:35:03,760 --> 00:35:08,279 Speaker 1: Yes, one hundred percent at the end of the day. 682 00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:14,200 Speaker 1: What I think the viewer needs to understand going back 683 00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:19,600 Speaker 1: is if we can increase the probability of clean contact. Agree, 684 00:35:20,600 --> 00:35:24,319 Speaker 1: if we can increase the probability of that and we 685 00:35:24,440 --> 00:35:27,040 Speaker 1: have you know, a good ball and we have clean grooves, 686 00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:29,319 Speaker 1: if we can increase the probability of the clean hit, 687 00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:32,839 Speaker 1: assuming that we know how to manipulate spin loft, that's 688 00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:37,560 Speaker 1: all this is. That's all this is. And and with 689 00:35:37,680 --> 00:35:42,120 Speaker 1: Victor getting him to understand that he was too shallow, 690 00:35:42,480 --> 00:35:47,239 Speaker 1: the low point was actually back, not forward. And you know, 691 00:35:47,520 --> 00:35:51,560 Speaker 1: with him, when he hit the ground behind the ball 692 00:35:51,560 --> 00:35:54,520 Speaker 1: about two thousand times in a row, what's he going 693 00:35:54,600 --> 00:35:59,520 Speaker 1: to do? He started actually leaning the shaft forward right 694 00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:02,560 Speaker 1: to not hit the ground. Well, when you lean the 695 00:36:02,600 --> 00:36:06,040 Speaker 1: shaft too far forward, now you start closing the spin 696 00:36:06,120 --> 00:36:11,799 Speaker 1: loft down because the bottom vector's not down enough and 697 00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:16,239 Speaker 1: you're delofting the club, so you're shutting spin loft down. So, 698 00:36:16,320 --> 00:36:18,760 Speaker 1: as you know, Marty, even if you do get clean 699 00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:21,520 Speaker 1: contact with a shut down spin loft. 700 00:36:21,280 --> 00:36:23,680 Speaker 4: The spin's gone, yeah, exactly. 701 00:36:23,840 --> 00:36:27,680 Speaker 1: And he's throwing fastballs, which we don't want. So he 702 00:36:27,760 --> 00:36:31,400 Speaker 1: either had flubs or chips or he had fastballs, and 703 00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:33,439 Speaker 1: neither one of those are in a good situation when 704 00:36:33,440 --> 00:36:34,399 Speaker 1: you're playing on the PGA tour. 705 00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:37,719 Speaker 2: Yeah, in those chips where the speed comes out way 706 00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:41,319 Speaker 2: hotter than your brain you know, has wired up to do. 707 00:36:42,000 --> 00:36:45,160 Speaker 1: Think about the fear and anxiety when that happens to 708 00:36:45,239 --> 00:36:47,359 Speaker 1: you under the high schools of pressure, think about that. 709 00:36:47,840 --> 00:36:51,080 Speaker 1: Now your brain is spinning out there, and now you're like, oh, 710 00:36:51,120 --> 00:36:54,600 Speaker 1: dear God, don't miss a green. So I mean, guys, 711 00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:57,520 Speaker 1: this this short game stuff, it goes on. It transcends 712 00:36:57,560 --> 00:36:59,120 Speaker 1: all the way back through the bag. No question. 713 00:36:59,360 --> 00:37:00,640 Speaker 4: Yeah, Joe had a question. 714 00:37:00,719 --> 00:37:02,880 Speaker 3: Victor was telling us when we interviewed him that he 715 00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:04,640 Speaker 3: is into playing poker right now. If you've got a 716 00:37:04,719 --> 00:37:06,480 Speaker 3: chance to play any poker with him or seen him 717 00:37:06,640 --> 00:37:08,240 Speaker 3: in action and houses game. 718 00:37:08,800 --> 00:37:12,359 Speaker 1: He is. He has improved dramatically. He has. The Only 719 00:37:12,400 --> 00:37:14,960 Speaker 1: thing about Victors he's a little impatient. He likes acting 720 00:37:15,719 --> 00:37:19,239 Speaker 1: and now with his bank role playing for playing for 721 00:37:19,320 --> 00:37:21,960 Speaker 1: five hundred dollars is not. It doesn't keep his interest 722 00:37:22,040 --> 00:37:22,600 Speaker 1: like it should. 723 00:37:23,160 --> 00:37:25,400 Speaker 3: He's hanging around with tens that he doesn't need to be. 724 00:37:25,520 --> 00:37:26,759 Speaker 3: It's just like it's fine. 725 00:37:26,680 --> 00:37:28,600 Speaker 1: He meant about a thirty thousand dollars buy in one 726 00:37:28,640 --> 00:37:30,279 Speaker 1: night at Bolajo, and we're going to see what he's got. 727 00:37:31,440 --> 00:37:33,520 Speaker 3: Joe, I had I had another question for you. I 728 00:37:33,560 --> 00:37:36,960 Speaker 3: know you're into sports memorabilia. What's your what's your kind 729 00:37:36,960 --> 00:37:39,320 Speaker 3: of golden goose at home? Right? Now what do you 730 00:37:39,360 --> 00:37:40,800 Speaker 3: What do you have or what have you purchased that 731 00:37:40,880 --> 00:37:41,680 Speaker 3: your favorite item? 732 00:37:42,320 --> 00:37:45,719 Speaker 1: Oh my god, I modestly, guys, I think I have 733 00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:50,080 Speaker 1: a museum caliber pieces. I yeah, I've got I've got 734 00:37:50,120 --> 00:37:54,520 Speaker 1: the jersey that Tom Brady wore Bucks versus Eagles in 735 00:37:54,560 --> 00:37:57,359 Speaker 1: October of twenty twenty one. I bought that directly from 736 00:37:57,400 --> 00:38:03,120 Speaker 1: Tom's charity himself. I've got Peyton Manning's AFC championship jersey 737 00:38:03,160 --> 00:38:05,200 Speaker 1: that he wore to beat the Patriots to get to 738 00:38:05,239 --> 00:38:07,880 Speaker 1: the Super Bowl and end that he threw his final 739 00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:09,920 Speaker 1: NFL touchdown because he did not throw one in the 740 00:38:09,920 --> 00:38:13,239 Speaker 1: Super Bowl. Yep, Peyton saw How the hell did you 741 00:38:13,280 --> 00:38:16,600 Speaker 1: get that? And I know people, Peyton, I know people. 742 00:38:18,080 --> 00:38:20,640 Speaker 1: So I've got I've got some really really good pieces 743 00:38:20,640 --> 00:38:22,279 Speaker 1: and it's just been a hobby of mine. I enjoy 744 00:38:22,360 --> 00:38:25,080 Speaker 1: the history behind it. But believe it or not, guys, 745 00:38:25,120 --> 00:38:28,840 Speaker 1: some of my most important pieces are the three victories, 746 00:38:29,400 --> 00:38:32,640 Speaker 1: the shirt that Victor was wearing on Sunday at Memorial 747 00:38:33,200 --> 00:38:35,960 Speaker 1: at BMW, and the Tour Championship. I have all three 748 00:38:35,960 --> 00:38:39,080 Speaker 1: of those. So those are three great the great pieces 749 00:38:39,120 --> 00:38:40,560 Speaker 1: that I'm that I'm very proud of, very. 750 00:38:40,520 --> 00:38:42,279 Speaker 2: Special to Joe, I want to give you a nod. 751 00:38:42,320 --> 00:38:44,120 Speaker 2: I want to say. I want to say, I think 752 00:38:44,120 --> 00:38:48,120 Speaker 2: the whole golf industry owes you, you know, credit, because 753 00:38:48,160 --> 00:38:50,279 Speaker 2: you can't teach all the golfers out there, but you 754 00:38:50,280 --> 00:38:53,320 Speaker 2: you've helped push us at ping you. You know, Victor 755 00:38:53,360 --> 00:38:55,839 Speaker 2: asked you a question. You get stumped, you call us, 756 00:38:55,920 --> 00:38:58,680 Speaker 2: we get stumped. Somebody's got to keep researching. It's kind 757 00:38:58,680 --> 00:39:01,640 Speaker 2: of the synergy that we have right of keeping pushing 758 00:39:01,760 --> 00:39:05,600 Speaker 2: us on the R and D side. And I think 759 00:39:05,640 --> 00:39:09,239 Speaker 2: you've influenced a lot of the golf instructors out there, 760 00:39:09,800 --> 00:39:12,520 Speaker 2: and so I just want to thank you for your 761 00:39:12,560 --> 00:39:15,360 Speaker 2: help to Victor, but also helping level up all the 762 00:39:15,400 --> 00:39:18,640 Speaker 2: golf industry. You and Grant Waite early adopters, a tract 763 00:39:18,680 --> 00:39:22,319 Speaker 2: man and being practitioners, I think has really helped a 764 00:39:22,320 --> 00:39:25,719 Speaker 2: lot of us. And and we appreciate everything you've done 765 00:39:25,719 --> 00:39:27,680 Speaker 2: for the industry and you're doing for Victor right now. 766 00:39:27,719 --> 00:39:30,560 Speaker 2: So thank you for coming on and spending time with us, Joe, 767 00:39:30,560 --> 00:39:33,960 Speaker 2: and sharing a little insights about you know, this this 768 00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:36,880 Speaker 2: great athlete that we've had the pleasure to watch here lately. 769 00:39:37,440 --> 00:39:40,400 Speaker 1: It's been incredible and as I said before, I appreciate 770 00:39:40,440 --> 00:39:42,239 Speaker 1: your guy support over the last ten years. So I 771 00:39:42,280 --> 00:39:44,319 Speaker 1: know I've bugged the daylights out of you. Paul doesn't 772 00:39:44,320 --> 00:39:46,080 Speaker 1: even answer the phone anymore. What I call it goes 773 00:39:46,120 --> 00:39:50,320 Speaker 1: straight to voicemail, no more answering. He'll call back in 774 00:39:50,360 --> 00:39:52,200 Speaker 1: a week or so. But now there's no more answering 775 00:39:52,200 --> 00:39:54,680 Speaker 1: with Paul. I think I've burned that bridge. I bugged 776 00:39:54,719 --> 00:39:57,680 Speaker 1: him so much, but no, Paul is very kind. But 777 00:39:57,840 --> 00:40:01,200 Speaker 1: at the end of the day, guys, this has been 778 00:40:01,680 --> 00:40:04,960 Speaker 1: a pleasure for me and I have learned just as 779 00:40:05,040 --> 00:40:08,160 Speaker 1: much from Victor as he has learned from me. And 780 00:40:08,200 --> 00:40:11,680 Speaker 1: you know, full disclosure, I've never had a player that 781 00:40:11,800 --> 00:40:13,799 Speaker 1: is going to be potentially number in the world one day. 782 00:40:14,480 --> 00:40:16,880 Speaker 1: I've never had a kid that can do what this 783 00:40:16,960 --> 00:40:20,320 Speaker 1: kid can do. Yeah, for all of you old college 784 00:40:20,360 --> 00:40:23,080 Speaker 1: basketball fans out there, there was a famous coach called 785 00:40:23,320 --> 00:40:26,040 Speaker 1: His name was Adolph Rupp. He coached the Kentucky Wildcats 786 00:40:26,080 --> 00:40:28,439 Speaker 1: long ago. He had a great statement and he said, 787 00:40:28,440 --> 00:40:31,640 Speaker 1: you don't win to Kentucky derby riding a mule. Don't 788 00:40:31,640 --> 00:40:35,439 Speaker 1: ever forget that. So if you want, I tell people, 789 00:40:35,480 --> 00:40:38,600 Speaker 1: if you want to become a great tour instructor, find 790 00:40:38,640 --> 00:40:39,880 Speaker 1: yourself a great tour. 791 00:40:39,640 --> 00:40:44,919 Speaker 3: Player, and Victor Hovelin is definitely that. Joseph Mayo really 792 00:40:44,920 --> 00:40:48,160 Speaker 3: appreciate the time. Very interesting conversation, not just on the 793 00:40:48,160 --> 00:40:51,279 Speaker 3: golf side, but the memorabilia stuff is fascinated as well. 794 00:40:51,360 --> 00:40:53,319 Speaker 4: I'm I'm now like looking behind. 795 00:40:53,040 --> 00:40:56,120 Speaker 3: You in your video in your world saying I wonder 796 00:40:56,120 --> 00:40:58,040 Speaker 3: what that image is, I wonder what's signed there. 797 00:40:58,239 --> 00:41:00,479 Speaker 4: So we really appreciate the time. 798 00:41:01,280 --> 00:41:05,720 Speaker 1: Those back there are photographs from signed photographs from different 799 00:41:05,760 --> 00:41:08,680 Speaker 1: actors from different movies and TV shows, and that's that's 800 00:41:08,719 --> 00:41:09,239 Speaker 1: what that is. 801 00:41:09,719 --> 00:41:12,160 Speaker 3: Love it awesome, awesome, Thank you so much for the time. 802 00:41:12,200 --> 00:41:15,520 Speaker 4: We really appreciate it. This is the Ping Proving Grounds Podcast.