Speaker 1: Time for another episode of Pats from the Past podcast.
Speaker 1: Matt Smith Brian Worry alongside for Patriots center Dan copen Hope.
Speaker 1: Thanks for joining us today. I appreciate it. Thanks thanks
Speaker 1: for having me. Yeah, it's fund to be back up. Yeah. Um,
Speaker 1: So let'sen you grow up in Pennsylvania, right, Um, went
Speaker 1: to Boston College. The Patriots weren't the Patriots when they
Speaker 1: drafted you? Were they? I mean they'd won it one time, yeah,
Speaker 1: when I was my senior year. Yeah, I'd played another
Speaker 1: year after that, but two thousand and one, Um, you
Speaker 1: know they had a pretty good year that year, right,
Speaker 1: And that's probably where it started with a BC center, right. True?
Speaker 1: Were you just were you excited just to be drafted
Speaker 1: in the NFL at that point in time? Yes, yeah,
Speaker 1: and no doubt about it. It's just it didn't for
Speaker 1: those guys coming out of college and for everybody for
Speaker 1: coming out of college. It's just an honor to be drafted.
Speaker 1: That's what you worked for and you know, that's what
Speaker 1: you dream of it as a little kid. So whether
Speaker 1: it was a Pats or you know, the Raiders, or hell,
Speaker 1: the Bengals for for that matter, throw them in there.
Speaker 1: You're gonna go where you're told, right, we're football players.
Speaker 1: Did you have any idea where you'd be drafted and
Speaker 1: you were in the fifth round, obviously we were hoping
Speaker 1: to be hired. Did you care? In the end, I
Speaker 1: guess it really doesn't matter. Um, I think you always
Speaker 1: want to be you know, there's a little bit of competition,
Speaker 1: and you know you got some pride, so I guess
Speaker 1: you'd always want to be higher. But um, you know,
Speaker 1: fifth round pick um? You know I didn't. You don't
Speaker 1: think this was gonna happen. You know, it wasn't one
Speaker 1: of those kids that in high school, I know I'm
Speaker 1: going to be playing in the NFL or college. It
Speaker 1: was just sort of take a step by step and
Speaker 1: if I get the opportunity, great. So Um, as far
Speaker 1: as did I know, you know, I heard the Bengals,
Speaker 1: you know, we're we're we're interested in the beginning, maybe
Speaker 1: a couple other teams. But the funny thing is, I
Speaker 1: had no idea the Pats we're gonna pick me. Never
Speaker 1: sat down with them, never talked with them. I no.
Speaker 1: Scar was at my workout at at PC and that's
Speaker 1: the only thing I know. And they had a relatively
Speaker 1: young center, right. They was a first round pick. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know I'm going there with the first round pick
Speaker 1: and coming in and it's like, okay, you know this,
Speaker 1: this is gonna be tough. I there was no you know,
Speaker 1: definite that I was gonna make the team. I was
Speaker 1: just gonna say, what was your expectations did you think?
Speaker 1: Did you say, I think I can make this team
Speaker 1: or were you just let me just take it one
Speaker 1: day at a time. There was one day at a time,
Speaker 1: and then you learned pretty quickly you better take it
Speaker 1: one day at a time up here for the rest
Speaker 1: of your career. Um, you know, I think luckily, I
Speaker 1: mean not luckily. I don't think what he practiced, whether
Speaker 1: you know, his hamstring from the conditioning run or whatever.
Speaker 1: It was my first practice. I don't think what he
Speaker 1: was practicing. So I was thrown with the first unit
Speaker 1: on day one, and that was back when you know
Speaker 1: you're putting full pads on the first day for a
Speaker 1: number of days straight. You know, there's no rules or regulations.
Speaker 1: You know, Bill could do what he wanted to you.
Speaker 1: So we threw the pads on first day. I'm with
Speaker 1: the starting offense. Uh during training camp, and you know,
Speaker 1: probably pretty anxious, nervous. So wait minute, then, if the
Speaker 1: rules were in place that are in place today, maybe
Speaker 1: you don't even emerge or get the opportunities to emerge
Speaker 1: and in training camp. Yeah, no, I mean I think
Speaker 1: you know, obviously you got to prove it, you know,
Speaker 1: over a length of time, and uh, the coaches need
Speaker 1: to have trust in you. The guys around you need
Speaker 1: to have trust in you, uh, in order to make
Speaker 1: this football team. Um. And it really I think me
Speaker 1: being in there and be able to function gave me
Speaker 1: some confidence that they had, you know, didn't put me
Speaker 1: on the team. You know, you had to sustain that
Speaker 1: and keep getting better. Did you Did you have a
Speaker 1: scar moment? Is there a scar moment that you remember
Speaker 1: early on your rookie year, you know you sort of
Speaker 1: can keep your head down. Um, I had a couple
Speaker 1: moments where you know, there's always plays where maybe you
Speaker 1: go the wrong way or do the wrong thing. But
Speaker 1: I mean we were running an outside zone to the
Speaker 1: right and I went left, the only person on the
Speaker 1: offensive line, and it's it's it's probably one of the
Speaker 1: easiest players to run. All you basically have to do
Speaker 1: is go to the right. I go to left. There's
Speaker 1: four guys going to the right and one guy going
Speaker 1: to the left, and it's just you know, you come
Speaker 1: back in and it's you look at the the the
Speaker 1: images on the play after in between series, and that
Speaker 1: play comes up and sometimes those pictures happen, you know,
Speaker 1: maybe a second or two into the snap, and sure
Speaker 1: enough there's four guys going to the right and me
Speaker 1: right in the middle going to the left. And got
Speaker 1: an earl earful from Scar on that one. But you
Speaker 1: learn really quick too. I mean, you're a rookie. You
Speaker 1: keep your head down, you don't say a lot. You
Speaker 1: just try and do the best you can. But you know,
Speaker 1: those other guys that get comfortable or whatever, you know,
Speaker 1: you learn that Scars not afraid to to to get
Speaker 1: in you. It also helped that you could shotgun snap.
Speaker 1: They didn't have to switch. I think Compton, you know,
Speaker 1: really appreciated that when I was in there. Yeah, he
Speaker 1: didn't have to move over to center. Um. Yeah, So
Speaker 1: and then what do you went in? Started game one
Speaker 1: that was the thirty one and nothing game up in Buffalo.
Speaker 1: Um bred you through a pass London Fletcher came and
Speaker 1: you know, sort of clear Kolcock Woody, so he went out,
Speaker 1: he had to Bruce Sturnham, so he didn't play week
Speaker 1: two in Philly. So I played week two and then Compton,
Speaker 1: you know, broke his foot or rebroke it from training camp,
Speaker 1: and then when he came back, they moved him the
Speaker 1: left guard and that was it. So did that surprise
Speaker 1: you or at that point time, maybe Dana you conditioned
Speaker 1: to not be surprised. I'm not surprised at that point,
Speaker 1: because you know, when you you're only gonna keep eight
Speaker 1: or nine guys. If they're dressing you, they're dressing you
Speaker 1: for a reason. Sometimes we only dress seven linemen in
Speaker 1: a game, so if someone goes down, you're going in.
Speaker 1: You don't have a choice. You don't have a choice
Speaker 1: when we have two guys suited up to play. So
Speaker 1: when he went down, it just was one of those
Speaker 1: natural things like okay, I'm just we're just gonna step
Speaker 1: in and go. The center has a lot of responsibilities, obviously,
Speaker 1: with calling out certain protections and whatnot. I've always perceived
Speaker 1: here that Tom does a lot of that. Can you
Speaker 1: kind of give us some insight on how that works
Speaker 1: with the center and the quarterback here? Well, Tom does
Speaker 1: a lot here. There's there's no doubt about it. Um,
Speaker 1: Josh and Charlie, you know, whoever was the offensive cordiner
Speaker 1: or Billy Oh. You know, the quarterback can see the
Speaker 1: whole field and they can see the safeties, they can
Speaker 1: see the corners, they can see the rotation and where
Speaker 1: where everybody is. So most teams, the center will call
Speaker 1: the mic point, which is the middle linebacker in every protection.
Speaker 1: Every run scheme is based off of that. That's he's
Speaker 1: the middle guy, and everybody knows who's who's who and
Speaker 1: who has who after that point. So you know, if
Speaker 1: I can't see the rotation very well, um, you know,
Speaker 1: being you know, bent down and you know, touching the ball,
Speaker 1: you know, it makes sense that the quarterback can do it.
Speaker 1: That being said, he I identify as the quarterback. The
Speaker 1: play calls, a play call the protections of protections. Everybody's
Speaker 1: got to do their job after that point and make
Speaker 1: their specific call. Sometimes, you know, the center has a
Speaker 1: little bit more um, a little bit more control. But here,
Speaker 1: like everybody was really smart, especially on the offensive line, Matt,
Speaker 1: like you know, Russ Hoaks tied, Steve, Neil, Joe and
Speaker 1: drewsie Worth, all those guys Logan forever. You know, they
Speaker 1: were smart, so you didn't really have to tell them
Speaker 1: what to do. They knew what I was doing. I
Speaker 1: knew what they were doing, and um, you know, you
Speaker 1: really really got in there if it was something need
Speaker 1: to be corrected or we switched something up. As you're
Speaker 1: starting your NFL career, Tom has got a ring under
Speaker 1: his belt and a couple years on his belt. But
Speaker 1: Tom's not Tom at that point in time, And so
Speaker 1: did it help you maybe that as you're developing, as
Speaker 1: you're starting your NFL career, you're kind of doing it
Speaker 1: in tandem with him, as opposed to you know, Ferrens,
Speaker 1: who you know is just getting his first start maybe
Speaker 1: this week, and he's looking up and is going okay,
Speaker 1: And I know that that's got to he's got to
Speaker 1: get rid of that thought pretty quickly. But it's a
Speaker 1: different Tom than when you started, when you were playing. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but I mean France has been here for a couple
Speaker 1: of years now, right, So yeah, I think he's pretty
Speaker 1: comfortable and he knows who Tom is. And you're right,
Speaker 1: Tom wasn't you know the met Galla guy going with
Speaker 1: you know, the supermodel wife to h you know, to
Speaker 1: that party. So but it was fun. You see, still
Speaker 1: quarterback that won a Super Bowl and everybody knew his name.
Speaker 1: You know, you go out to dinner at that point
Speaker 1: and you know, you just really he couldn't even get
Speaker 1: a Biden at some point because you know he was
Speaker 1: that guy? Was he? But you meet him the first
Speaker 1: time and you realize quickly he's not that guy that
Speaker 1: you see and you know he's just he's a down
Speaker 1: to earth as they come. Was he demand? Was he? Was?
Speaker 1: He as demanding that early on in his career when
Speaker 1: you started, as he was when you left New England. Uh.
Speaker 1: I think that's what makes him and you know, not
Speaker 1: only him, but all winners, winners or you know, competitors,
Speaker 1: they demand a lot from you every day and you
Speaker 1: know that's how he makes this team better, that's how
Speaker 1: he gets better. So you want that in a quarterback,
Speaker 1: that to be that demanding. Yeah, I mean, let being said,
Speaker 1: you know, he's a guy throwing the ball and handing
Speaker 1: the ball after in practice, right, He's not out there
Speaker 1: hitting every day. So when he gets when he gets
Speaker 1: angry and yells in the huddle in the middle of
Speaker 1: day fourteen a training camp. The lines sitting there look
Speaker 1: at HS like relaxed, buddy, you haven't been hit for
Speaker 1: two weeks, so that could get redhaired up. That gets
Speaker 1: a little old, and it's like, come on, just go
Speaker 1: over there and play catch. That's oh yeah, hey, go
Speaker 1: try and throw the ball in the barrel. Well, every
Speaker 1: while the offensive line the defensive line are just sitting
Speaker 1: there sucking wind and you know, their body aches getting
Speaker 1: yelled at by Scar. Yes, and there was no downtime
Speaker 1: with Scar, no doubt. During special teams. You go other places.
Speaker 1: Special teams are like breaks for offensive line. Here we
Speaker 1: were working on screens, we were working on There was
Speaker 1: no downtime. And you know, again that's what makes this
Speaker 1: team special. They're not afraid to work. And that demanding
Speaker 1: part of it though, I mean I was focusing on
Speaker 1: Tom there, but it's not a Tom thing. It's an
Speaker 1: organization thing. It comes from the top, you know, So
Speaker 1: Bills demanding, the assistant coaches are demanding your position, coaches
Speaker 1: demanding their quarterbacks demanding. That has to rub off on
Speaker 1: your entire unit. Absolutely, I mean, you're right, it comes
Speaker 1: from the top and it's Bill, And you see how
Speaker 1: hard he works those coaches, but in return, those coaches
Speaker 1: work that hard. So you know there's a respect there.
Speaker 1: And when you see your coaches doing that, you know
Speaker 1: you want to to return that respect. Did the best
Speaker 1: he can for him and the staff and what they
Speaker 1: do in the hours that they put in. It's a
Speaker 1: it's amazing. It's funny you mentioned Tom wasn't that guy,
Speaker 1: like he wasn't the six time yet. I still remember
Speaker 1: after your rookie year, I went in the locker room
Speaker 1: during rookie orientations. There was no media and it wasn't
Speaker 1: a media time. I was. I had a feature story
Speaker 1: lined up that I was doing with Tom and I
Speaker 1: was sitting at his locker interviewing him about the super
Speaker 1: Bowl and about you know, just his career to that point.
Speaker 1: And Cedric Cobbs, I think it was running back Arkansas,
Speaker 1: he was a rookie. He walks over, He interrupts us,
Speaker 1: He goes, excuse me, I just wanted to introduce myself,
Speaker 1: mister Brady Cedric Cobbs and said. He goes, nice to
Speaker 1: meet you. I'll talk to you soon, and he walks away.
Speaker 1: I go, mister Brady, Yeah, what was he probably twenty
Speaker 1: four time looking around for his dad. Now you can
Speaker 1: get away with it at five forty right now, right,
Speaker 1: So your rookie year, Dan, you know that's got to
Speaker 1: be pretty heavy stuff. You know, you get drafted, you
Speaker 1: don't know what's going to happen. You know, all of
Speaker 1: a sudden, you get your insert into the lineup. You
Speaker 1: guys go fourteen and two and you're in the super Bowl.
Speaker 1: You'r rookie year, yea, And then you start to everybody
Speaker 1: talk smack, you know, and you and I don't know
Speaker 1: if the SAP stuff got to you or you guys,
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, because we had a backup, backup guard
Speaker 1: playing in the playoffs, right and not a big deal. Okay,
Speaker 1: that must have been a pretty heavy thing for a
Speaker 1: kid in his rookie year to be playing in the
Speaker 1: Super Bowl and playing on this team and having the
Speaker 1: kind of record that you guys had that year and
Speaker 1: getting ready to play in that game. It's a long season,
Speaker 1: you know, you have seventh we were, but nineteen games
Speaker 1: at that point. You throw four preseason games and um,
Speaker 1: you're going from the combine into mini camps and OTAs
Speaker 1: and training camps. So that first year is really long.
Speaker 1: And then you throw nineteen games onto that. It is long,
Speaker 1: and wouldn't have it any other way, but it's it's
Speaker 1: you're so new to it. You know, you don't really know,
Speaker 1: you don't you know, first game, first snap, you snap
Speaker 1: it and the nerves go right, and that's usually how
Speaker 1: it goes. That's how it was basically from my first
Speaker 1: game on. But not the Super Bowl. I mean that's
Speaker 1: just a different game. I think my hand was shaking
Speaker 1: for ten ten minutes and well into the second quarter. Wow,
Speaker 1: it that game gets to you. But I remember at
Speaker 1: the Rookie Symposium, someone got up on stage and was
Speaker 1: just like, take a look around. It's all the rookies
Speaker 1: that got drafted. Just take a look around one of
Speaker 1: this you know groups you sit as a team. One
Speaker 1: of these teams is going to walk away with like
Speaker 1: super Bowl rings. And looking back on it after that
Speaker 1: years like, holy crap, you know we were the ones
Speaker 1: that were able to walk away with super Bowl rings,
Speaker 1: you realize how special it is. What was it like
Speaker 1: when during that week when when Warren Sapp was talking
Speaker 1: about that, I mean, Ross was going up against Chris Jenkins,
Speaker 1: Pro Bowl All Pro type player, and you know he
Speaker 1: kind of was that unproven guy. It was filling in
Speaker 1: and Buckner, Julius Peppers. Yeah, I forget the other defensive end,
Speaker 1: but that Yeah, that front four was good. And h
Speaker 1: I think it's it's good Like Russ has played for
Speaker 1: us before. We had complete confidence in him. You know,
Speaker 1: we practiced next to him. It wasn't a matter of oh,
Speaker 1: we got to back up. It was just like, Okay,
Speaker 1: Russa is in and he was in for the a
Speaker 1: FC championship game, and he was in after what he
Speaker 1: got hurt, and you know they believe it's a Tennessee
Speaker 1: game or something. Yes, so he played a lot in
Speaker 1: those playoffs. So for us, it's really just you know,
Speaker 1: ignore what they're saying, but use it. You know, let's
Speaker 1: go out there and show him that we can go.
Speaker 1: I don't think we gave up a sack since he
Speaker 1: came in. Maybe I didn't. We definitely didn't give a
Speaker 1: sack up a second in the Super Bowl. I don't
Speaker 1: think so. No. So you're talking about a long year
Speaker 1: and rookie symposium in nineteen games and all this stuff,
Speaker 1: mini camp, and and so you win it and then
Speaker 1: you win it again the next year. It was so
Speaker 1: fun let's just do it again. Yeah. Yeah, that's a
Speaker 1: out of football in two years. And I guess that's
Speaker 1: that's how you come in the NFL and just go
Speaker 1: back to back right real quick? Did was there a
Speaker 1: point in time and I don't know if the train's
Speaker 1: still going really fast and you haven't had a chance
Speaker 1: for really to catch up, But are you thinking they're going?
Speaker 1: You know, my first two years we went. I mean,
Speaker 1: nobody wins back to back Super Bowls. It's a it's
Speaker 1: a monumental accomplishment to get there, let alone win it.
Speaker 1: You went it your first two years. Do you do
Speaker 1: you take a second and go, Wow, this doesn't happen
Speaker 1: very often. I might be a part of something special here.
Speaker 1: Uh yeah, I think so, because I remember talking to
Speaker 1: Rodney or hearing him say he went to the super
Speaker 1: Bowl his rookie year and then I don't even think
Speaker 1: he touched the playoffs and definitely never made it back
Speaker 1: to the super Bowl until that year. So you look
Speaker 1: at how long his career at that point at that
Speaker 1: point was and how good he was, and how good
Speaker 1: some of those teams he was on were, and I
Speaker 1: think that puts that back to back in perspective when
Speaker 1: a guy like that hasn't been there since his rookie year.
Speaker 1: It's I mean, this league's meant to be sort of balanced,
Speaker 1: and these teams are you know, it's supposed to be
Speaker 1: competitive and everybody's a professional. Everybody's big, everybody's smart, everybody's fast,
Speaker 1: and there's a lot of good coaches out there to win.
Speaker 1: You know, thirty four and four my first two year,
Speaker 1: ridiculous rings right, that's pretty good. Yeah, that's a culture here.
Speaker 1: I mean it was people just put their head down
Speaker 1: and you know, don't worry about last year, don't worry
Speaker 1: about last week. Let's just what can we do this
Speaker 1: week to be this this team. But as you're now
Speaker 1: out of it, Dan, okay, can you look back and
Speaker 1: do you look back with it with a little bit
Speaker 1: of a fondness to say you just said the words
Speaker 1: that's the culture here. You are part of building that
Speaker 1: culture here. You know, there are guys who are coming
Speaker 1: in today who look back at a Dan Copen and go, wow,
Speaker 1: I remember him, look at how many years he played
Speaker 1: here and things like that. I'm not trying to, of
Speaker 1: course they do, but after this, after this podcast, But
Speaker 1: I mean, you are a part of that, and it
Speaker 1: is different now because you were part of something that
Speaker 1: you did build. Yeah, no, I never looked at it.
Speaker 1: Someone mentioned that to me within the last year and
Speaker 1: usually I just say no. But it is kind of
Speaker 1: cool to see what they're doing here. Obviously we're not
Speaker 1: in there working with them and they're going out. You know,
Speaker 1: it's kind of like Bill, you know, I'm not the
Speaker 1: one out there making plays. You guys are. They're out
Speaker 1: on the football field. But to see them doing so well, um,
Speaker 1: and really acting as we did back then and keeping
Speaker 1: that culture as he said as uh, you know, it's
Speaker 1: it's a proud thing and um, you know, I hope
Speaker 1: everybody that was here that established that has you know
Speaker 1: a little pride and putting that in here and you know,
Speaker 1: instilling it and it's still here. You've got ownership in it,
Speaker 1: regardless of where you were in that. You know, there's
Speaker 1: a lot of people who were involved in that. But
Speaker 1: you've got to look, you've got you all have a
Speaker 1: little bit of piece of that. Yeah, and you know
Speaker 1: they see him do well, but yeah, we take pride
Speaker 1: and not for sure what does it take to be
Speaker 1: I mean I think you quickly became one of Tom's guys.
Speaker 1: What does it take to be one of Tom's guys?
Speaker 1: Just trust? I guess, you know, I mean, yeah, to
Speaker 1: just just trust and you know, and when we stepped
Speaker 1: away from the football field, and it really on the
Speaker 1: football field from one, there's a there's a relationship that
Speaker 1: a quarterback in the center half. Sometimes the snaps are
Speaker 1: just easy and you know, it just sort of fits,
Speaker 1: and sometimes it's not, and you got to really work
Speaker 1: at it. You know, from day one when I came in,
Speaker 1: there was never any issues of snaps. You know, we
Speaker 1: were on the same page. It felt good, you know,
Speaker 1: it just it. There was a good relationship and I
Speaker 1: think they just carried off the field as well. And
Speaker 1: when we went out, we had a good time and
Speaker 1: it wasn't about you know, football time. There was you know,
Speaker 1: a friendship off the field as well. Sadly, there's probably
Speaker 1: not a lot of people Brian listening to this that
Speaker 1: remember this. But I know Dan does. I know that
Speaker 1: both of us do. But and again it did a
Speaker 1: different era, Dan, but you know, you maybe got a
Speaker 1: chance to um receive or taste some of the spoils
Speaker 1: that were as being associated with Tom Brady. I hope
Speaker 1: everybody remembers the visa commercial. Yeah, you know, yeah, and
Speaker 1: that was protection five Layers of Protection, right. Russ Hochstein
Speaker 1: was the star of that one, no doubt. But that
Speaker 1: was a pretty cool thing, don't you think. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: forgot about that. I actually have a copy of that
Speaker 1: at home. But yeah, that was that was that day
Speaker 1: like that was that was. That was fun because it
Speaker 1: was with all of us. Um. But it's kind of
Speaker 1: weird because you're in a trailer and you know, you're
Speaker 1: the only ones with full gear on and you sit there.
Speaker 1: He's got regular clothes on and you're taping up or
Speaker 1: and you got people putting makeup on or something and
Speaker 1: cameras and lights for the first time and directors, um.
Speaker 1: But you know, he got that for us, and you know,
Speaker 1: I was like, he's kind of a big deal. How
Speaker 1: come you get to be fraud protection. I want to
Speaker 1: be fraud protected? Yeah, I want to be coaching at
Speaker 1: the end, right, right, was it did did that and
Speaker 1: so you know you obviously wanted in his second year
Speaker 1: and was you know, you could see the ascent happening,
Speaker 1: but as you're kind of being a part of that
Speaker 1: and the rest of the line of everything. Do you see, Hey,
Speaker 1: something's happening here. You know, this guy's he might be
Speaker 1: a little bit better than just a good player. Was
Speaker 1: there something there after those couple times where you want it?
Speaker 1: I think, yeah, there's no way you can deny it
Speaker 1: at that point of how good he was, Um and
Speaker 1: the great ones do they just out work. It doesn't
Speaker 1: matter what level he got or you know, he was
Speaker 1: the best player in the NFL back then, he still
Speaker 1: worked as he was that, you know, like he was
Speaker 1: the last draft picker won whatever what eighty one or
Speaker 1: whatever he was nine. So you know, it's you see
Speaker 1: the work that they put into it, and they deserved
Speaker 1: the success because you know, that's how you get there.
Speaker 1: And at that point, what he was able to do,
Speaker 1: UM win with different teams. You know, we were a
Speaker 1: defensive team, we were a running team in the beginning,
Speaker 1: you know, ball control and these tight scoring games, low
Speaker 1: scoring games, and then we won then and then we
Speaker 1: won to know seven when we opened everything up and
Speaker 1: we're you know, probably more of a passing team at
Speaker 1: that point, Um, but we were able to flip flop
Speaker 1: and do different identities, and he could he could be
Speaker 1: the you know the guy and can command them on
Speaker 1: all of them. So that's pretty cool. So speaking of
Speaker 1: hard work, um, I was talking to Dwayne Allen last
Speaker 1: year at the tight end, who had played for the
Speaker 1: Colts and was on the team came here and lost
Speaker 1: forty five to seven, and he said, when he was
Speaker 1: on the Colts, he looked across the sideline at the
Speaker 1: end of that game and he just didn't get it, like,
Speaker 1: why are we getting killed by this Patriots team? They're
Speaker 1: not better than us? And then he signed here and
Speaker 1: he said, simply, I realized they just work harder than everybody. Yes,
Speaker 1: Is it that simple? I think? I mean yes and no.
Speaker 1: But that's probably the best way to put it, because
Speaker 1: you know, when I went to Denver, not to say
Speaker 1: that they didn't work hard. They did, and you know
Speaker 1: everybody works hard, but there's just a different level of
Speaker 1: work ethic or what's expected or what is working hard
Speaker 1: here is probably out of you know, thirty one clubs,
Speaker 1: you know the league. You know, they just they just
Speaker 1: can't keep up, and it's it's a day to day
Speaker 1: grind and it's it's expected every day we go somewhere
Speaker 1: else like this, Isn't that hard. You know you can
Speaker 1: you can do this and it's fun and you know
Speaker 1: they win too sometimes. Can you can you define that?
Speaker 1: Maybe so for people who don't understand what that means, Dan,
Speaker 1: because I think everybody assumes that everybody works hard. What
Speaker 1: how would you define what working hard here in New
Speaker 1: England means you're expected to know the opponent before you
Speaker 1: even get a game plan. Right, So the games on
Speaker 1: Sunday you have, you're in here on Monday, Tuesday, you're
Speaker 1: off Wednesday morning at eight o'clock, you're already prepared before
Speaker 1: Bill starts asking questions at eight o'clock in the morning.
Speaker 1: They haven't even passed out a game plan, you know,
Speaker 1: So you're doing that in your off days. Like I
Speaker 1: said before, with the special team units on other teams,
Speaker 1: linemen are resting. If you get downtime, you can rest.
Speaker 1: There's no downtime in practice because they can use that
Speaker 1: time to get better, whether it's just going over talking stuff,
Speaker 1: but there's no breaks, so you know that stuff. You know,
Speaker 1: guys focusing maybe more on you know, their teammates than
Speaker 1: themselves and not really give and into the you know,
Speaker 1: the banter back and forth between other other teams. That
Speaker 1: happen sometimes and just really, hey, that other stuff doesn't matter.
Speaker 1: It's it's what we do in this locker room and
Speaker 1: on that football field. That's not for everybody either, by
Speaker 1: the way. No, it's tough. It's tough. And I played
Speaker 1: for Bill for nine years and he'll tell you after
Speaker 1: every year he appreciates what you do, and you know,
Speaker 1: he's a hard guy to play for. But after nine years,
Speaker 1: he's a he's a hard guy to play for and
Speaker 1: not everybody can do it. Do you think playing for
Speaker 1: him as you embark on this other part of your
Speaker 1: life right now, or there are things that you take
Speaker 1: from him that you know help you maybe in business
Speaker 1: or maybe even being a dad for that. You know,
Speaker 1: I tell people all the time. You know, it's not
Speaker 1: just the NFL. It's just not the Patriot way. It's
Speaker 1: kind of you know, how you live your life. You
Speaker 1: get a lot of great qualities and values from playing sports,
Speaker 1: and especially team sports with discipline and accountability and work
Speaker 1: ethic and uh, you know, teamwork and developing that sense
Speaker 1: of camaraderie. And that's that you can use it your
Speaker 1: personal life. You can use it in your business life,
Speaker 1: and if you're you're honest with yourself and you're trying
Speaker 1: to be that good person in trying to put it,
Speaker 1: you know, an honest day's work in. You know, chances
Speaker 1: are you going to be successful at whatever you do.
Speaker 1: You mentioned we talked earlier about you know, first two
Speaker 1: years back to back and just a thrill of victory
Speaker 1: and winning two Super Bowls your first two years. Let's
Speaker 1: fast forward two years into the AFC Championship game in Indianapolis.
Speaker 1: Does that one still keep you up at night at all? Yeah,
Speaker 1: there's a couple that one. That one definitely does you
Speaker 1: know that that we let that one slip away? Um,
Speaker 1: you know, unfortunately things happened and they got on a roll,
Speaker 1: and you know we say it all the time, but
Speaker 1: they just made more plays than we did in especially
Speaker 1: late in the game. Um, you get sixty and Kleo
Speaker 1: scoring that game? Yeah, Cleco Logan Logan scored, I believe
Speaker 1: for us and the ball bounced right and if it
Speaker 1: would have bounced left, I would have had it. But
Speaker 1: then thinking back, it's like, what I really want my
Speaker 1: only touchdown to be in a game that we lost,
Speaker 1: especially the AFC Championship game. So it was Yeah, it
Speaker 1: was a weird game. They just got on a roll
Speaker 1: and just couldn't We couldn't make enough places down the stretch. It.
Speaker 1: But there's I'm sure you know the Yeah, does losing
Speaker 1: suck more than winning? Is you fork? Short term? Yes?
Speaker 1: I think absolutely. If you get to the FC Championship
Speaker 1: game or you get to the Super Bowl and you lose,
Speaker 1: you know that feeling of missing that opportunity and being
Speaker 1: able to hoist that trophy again is definitely probably more.
Speaker 1: You feel a little bit more than winning it afterwards
Speaker 1: for sure. Okay, so let's roll into it then. I mean,
Speaker 1: you're just gonna go. You lost, you lost it. You
Speaker 1: were eighteen to l you had it wouldn't have been
Speaker 1: better to lose a game that year? Were you guys
Speaker 1: grinding too hard at that point? And did it just
Speaker 1: come to a head. I wish we lost if we're
Speaker 1: gonna lose a game, I wish we lost one before that. Um,
Speaker 1: But that but that being set because eighteen and one, no,
Speaker 1: no super good chance? All right? But that being said, no,
Speaker 1: because it really doesn't matter at that point. There's only
Speaker 1: one game left, right The other games that you played
Speaker 1: mean nothing. So if we will go seven or sixteen
Speaker 1: or fifteen and one, and then we make it to
Speaker 1: that Super Bowl and we're you know, sixteen and two.
Speaker 1: It's still the same feeling as eighteen and one or seventeen,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, It's still that same that
Speaker 1: that defeat and sadness of losing that game. So I
Speaker 1: don't think we are grinding too hard. I think, you know,
Speaker 1: there's just you know, just ran out at the end
Speaker 1: and you just can't can't put one more together. And
Speaker 1: then that's a shame too, because you know, losing that
Speaker 1: game still is tough, you mentioned, you know, think just
Speaker 1: thinking about it, and I think the other day I
Speaker 1: happen to watch and it's going to come out in
Speaker 1: the next week or so, the Saban Belichick documentary. And
Speaker 1: so now Bill's on record. You know, I think people
Speaker 1: in New England it's almost it's a decent Powler sport.
Speaker 1: Should they have lost somewhere along the way? Bills on
Speaker 1: the record now and saying in that document, you know,
Speaker 1: looking back at it, he goes, I wonder if we
Speaker 1: would have been better off losing another game. That to
Speaker 1: me is kind of surprising because everything you guys were
Speaker 1: conditioned to do that year brew was great about it.
Speaker 1: Bill was great about it. It's just it's a one
Speaker 1: game season and you had sixteen one game seasons that
Speaker 1: regular season. Yea, that were it was unbelievable. You know what, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I know what he's trying I know, I think I
Speaker 1: know what he's saying. I'm not going to speak for him.
Speaker 1: I never would probably still get in trouble or get benched.
Speaker 1: I know, I know what he's trying to say, and
Speaker 1: I know what he means. Um, but I think we
Speaker 1: really had a mentally tough football team and an adventure
Speaker 1: and a veteran game that year. So yeah, I'd like
Speaker 1: to give us more credit, Like it's not about nineteen
Speaker 1: Oh we can't handle the pressure. You know, we just
Speaker 1: played really bad on the game that we couldn't play bad.
Speaker 1: But it just doesn't It just was that right, we
Speaker 1: could practice. That wasn't your best week of practice, No
Speaker 1: week wasn't there. I think that. I think I think,
Speaker 1: you know, we we went after it a lot, you know,
Speaker 1: we you know, we were gasped a little bit. I
Speaker 1: think I think, you know, guys were just thinking too much.
Speaker 1: Maybe not necessarily, Oh it's nineteen and oh, but you know,
Speaker 1: there was a lot of a lot of mental gymnastics
Speaker 1: going on on that offensive line during that game. Now
Speaker 1: we were looking for I don't think we were playing
Speaker 1: as fast as we usually did mentally and seeing things
Speaker 1: slow because you know, different checks or audibles and all
Speaker 1: that stuff. There was a lot going on, so I
Speaker 1: make an excuse it. And they had a pretty good
Speaker 1: front they did. I mean, they could get after the
Speaker 1: pastor especially when they put that you know, NASCAR package
Speaker 1: in and they're throwing tuck inside or human aura or
Speaker 1: even straighthand comes down on the three they got. They
Speaker 1: got four legitimate pass rushers that can get after the quarterback.
Speaker 1: And then they bring cross stunts every now and then.
Speaker 1: You know, we just, yeah, the game sucked. But um,
Speaker 1: and you're sitting going I'd like to give us a
Speaker 1: little bit more credit, you know, because you know we
Speaker 1: did want to go nineteen and oz. Um. But you've
Speaker 1: also maybe alluded to the fact that you ran out again.
Speaker 1: I don't mean you personally yea of trying to go
Speaker 1: nineteen and O. I don't think it was more. I
Speaker 1: think it was physical, you know, physically. I think we
Speaker 1: ran out of gas and we're playing a little bit slow.
Speaker 1: I don't think mentally. I think mentally, you know, you
Speaker 1: know sixteen and oh versus you know, we went eleven
Speaker 1: to five or ten and six. I don't think I
Speaker 1: ever went ninety seven. But some of those ten and
Speaker 1: six seasons are easier than that sixteen. And because Bill
Speaker 1: coached hard that year. I mean it was we're winning
Speaker 1: fifty five to ten or fifty seven to three or whatever.
Speaker 1: Randy Moss is going for four or five touchdowns against
Speaker 1: Buffalo in the first half, and we're blowing teams out.
Speaker 1: But we came in on Monday and sure enough, Bill,
Speaker 1: Bill found a lot of plays. You know, we were
Speaker 1: striving for perfection that year. I mean, never you know,
Speaker 1: you can't attain it. And Bill was Bill coached hard
Speaker 1: that year. Already knew what type of team you had.
Speaker 1: You know we could handle it. It's just, you know,
Speaker 1: I think physically we ran out and mentally we were
Speaker 1: just there's a lot going on in people's heads. You know.
Speaker 1: You know, Dan, well, if I go back to the
Speaker 1: oh one season before you were here, the Patriots played
Speaker 1: the Rams during that regular season and lost, and but
Speaker 1: they can emerge from that game saying if that's the
Speaker 1: best team in the league. We can compete, we could
Speaker 1: have won. Do you think the Giants did the same
Speaker 1: thing after the thirty eight to thirty five season finale, Yeah,
Speaker 1: no doubt. And and then they had a good team,
Speaker 1: you know, and they say, you know, it's kind of
Speaker 1: like a few other few other within the past few years.
Speaker 1: That team one got confidence against us because they went
Speaker 1: toe to tell with us um and then and then
Speaker 1: the game meant nothing for both teams too. By the
Speaker 1: way we had cleared the best was that was probably
Speaker 1: the best final game of a regular season, you know,
Speaker 1: because now you guys rest right, you know, we had
Speaker 1: nothing to play for. We had first seed, like locked
Speaker 1: up first round. By they were already in the playoffs.
Speaker 1: I believe it is a wild card. So usually teams
Speaker 1: just rest. That was no, that was one on ones
Speaker 1: and we're getting after it. So that was a really
Speaker 1: cool last game. And that tells you about the two
Speaker 1: guys who are the coaches there, and you know what,
Speaker 1: we're not going to do this. Let's let's go. Let's compete,
Speaker 1: because that's that's an essence, that's what this is about. Competing. Yep.
Speaker 1: And I think it did give them confidence that uh,
Speaker 1: no doubt. And plus they got hot. They got hot
Speaker 1: at the right time. They're playing really good football and
Speaker 1: you know they made more plays in that game than
Speaker 1: we did. That's the bottom line. I'm gonna put you
Speaker 1: on the spot. Second year in the league, you guys
Speaker 1: go fourteen and too, Corey Dillon's sixteen hundred yards, you
Speaker 1: win back to back Super Bowl championships. I think there's
Speaker 1: a lot of people in New England area that think
Speaker 1: that's the best Patriot team of this era two thousand
Speaker 1: and seven. We all know what happened eighteen and one.
Speaker 1: What's the best? What's the best team that you played on? Oh?
Speaker 1: There are different teams about I mean the best one probably,
Speaker 1: I mean, oh four, yeah, probably, because you gotta win
Speaker 1: it in order to got the conversation. You gotta be.
Speaker 1: You gotta win it to be the best. I mean,
Speaker 1: we go nineteen to nine and you're probably you know,
Speaker 1: throwing us against the eighty five Bears, right, you know?
Speaker 1: Now it's I don't you know? And you look at
Speaker 1: those lists of teams, how far down are the seven
Speaker 1: o seven team was in the top ten and they
Speaker 1: just released at like the last two or three weeks,
Speaker 1: which I was sort of here. Yeah. I think he
Speaker 1: might have been as high as eight or seven. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean that that team was stacked too. I mean
Speaker 1: we just did it a different way, right, you know
Speaker 1: we were opened up, we were spread, we were no
Speaker 1: you know, uh empty a lot that year. You had
Speaker 1: Welker coming in and Moss and uh Stalworth, Um Gaffney
Speaker 1: thinking yeah, yeah, yeah, Daffney. I mean he caught caught
Speaker 1: the Ballimore Yeah, right, that was a comeback and team alright,
Speaker 1: just can't stop being stupid. You know, I hear, I
Speaker 1: hear in your voice a little bit, Um, Dan, you
Speaker 1: know the frustration maybe as you as we're making you,
Speaker 1: we live this a little bit. But I'll ask you this, Um,
Speaker 1: with the perspective of time. The old phrase, is it
Speaker 1: better to have loved and lost when you look back
Speaker 1: at it and you've had a little time. You know, Hey,
Speaker 1: I'm glad we went for it. I'm glad we tried
Speaker 1: to go nineteen and ozer and you know what, we
Speaker 1: gave it our best shot. We just ran out of
Speaker 1: gas at the or We got beat by a team
Speaker 1: that beat us and played better than pay. You can
Speaker 1: honestly say, you know it hurts and you're angry, but
Speaker 1: they played better. So I mean it's not like it
Speaker 1: was side. Maybe we play him ten times, maybe we
Speaker 1: beat him nine, right, you know, but that day was
Speaker 1: the one. So um, you know there's nothing to you know,
Speaker 1: put your head down about and you get angry, but
Speaker 1: you still you still made it there. And early on
Speaker 1: probably like, God, no, I don't even want to get there.
Speaker 1: Let's just lose in the AFC Championship game and we
Speaker 1: don't have to, you know, suffer the loss of a
Speaker 1: Super Bowl. But screw that. You want to get there.
Speaker 1: You want to have the opportunity, the chance to play
Speaker 1: in that game and to win that game. Um, if
Speaker 1: you don't, if you don't win the championship game, you're
Speaker 1: not gonna have that opportunity. So you definitely want to
Speaker 1: get there. I got a question about oh four um
Speaker 1: in that Super Bowl. I remember after the game at
Speaker 1: the post game party, I was talking to Eric Mangini
Speaker 1: and he was like, just relieved that Brian Kinchen executed
Speaker 1: the final snap. Yeah, Now, I had no idea that
Speaker 1: during that week he was a bit of a mess. Yeah,
Speaker 1: what did you guys? Know? What was that? Like? You
Speaker 1: know what I don't even because Paxson got hurt that year,
Speaker 1: and I think McDermott was the second guy who got you. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I want to say he got a cut or something,
Speaker 1: didn't cut his hand or something like that, and that
Speaker 1: was why, like the snaps were sort of like fifty
Speaker 1: or you know, fifty fifty. I don't know what's going
Speaker 1: to happen here, So I think he had a cut
Speaker 1: or something or stitches, um, which made it. But yeah,
Speaker 1: when comes down to like a field goal, you just
Speaker 1: one more time, buddy, just just make one more play.
Speaker 1: And you got to you gotta hold up the block
Speaker 1: and keep him out, and Adam's gonna make that kick,
Speaker 1: which you know complete confidence he would. You had some
Speaker 1: injury problems towards the end of your Patriot's career and
Speaker 1: then you had a chance. Um, not your choice, but
Speaker 1: maybe at the end it was your choice, and you
Speaker 1: went to Denver and you had that one kind of
Speaker 1: magical year a little bit in Denver where Peyton was there.
Speaker 1: Not many people can sit there and say, yeah, I
Speaker 1: snapped for Tom Brady, I snapped for Peyton Manning. If
Speaker 1: they're not the two best quarterbacks in the history of
Speaker 1: the NFL, It's a pretty good debate about it. How
Speaker 1: fun or different maybe was that for you after playing
Speaker 1: so long here too? That was fun, I really did.
Speaker 1: I had a good time in Denver, especially that first year.
Speaker 1: The second year I blew my knee out in training camp,
Speaker 1: but I was looking forward to playing up there again.
Speaker 1: You know, the the area is beautiful, the stadium's beautiful,
Speaker 1: The fans are really cool to play for. They get
Speaker 1: into it, you know, and the guys on the team
Speaker 1: were really good. We had we had, we had a
Speaker 1: good group. We won a lot of football games that year.
Speaker 1: And like you said, we had Peyton, which was kind
Speaker 1: of cool to play with him and get to know him.
Speaker 1: I knew him for years before that, but you know, really,
Speaker 1: you know, spend some time with him, which was kind
Speaker 1: of cool. And you realize again why Tom Brady's Tom
Speaker 1: Brady and why Peyton Manning was Peyton Manning Because the
Speaker 1: work that they put in and what they expect out
Speaker 1: of the guys and how smart they are that football field.
Speaker 1: So what would you say the differences are? Uh, personality,
Speaker 1: It really is personality, you know. You know, Peyton's very
Speaker 1: serious a lot of things, even though he's a great
Speaker 1: storyteller and really a funny guy. Great yeah, good actor,
Speaker 1: good on those nationwide commercials, um, and funny as hell. Um.
Speaker 1: But he's really serious and it is about football. I
Speaker 1: mean that's what this guy grew up with with his
Speaker 1: dad and and now him and you know his brother
Speaker 1: and you know, I got another one coming up or
Speaker 1: something like that pretty soon. It's just he is football
Speaker 1: and just doesn't take that hat off very often. And
Speaker 1: and uh, he expects a lot, but he would rather
Speaker 1: have things very simple because he needed to know. Everybody
Speaker 1: needed like they knew what they were doing, and he
Speaker 1: needed to do that. He know that he needed that
Speaker 1: reassurance and trust um that those guys knew exactly what
Speaker 1: he wanted them to do. Um. Tommy, Tommy has been
Speaker 1: in one system his whole career. You know, Tommy's you know,
Speaker 1: more laid back. You know, you can go out. He'll
Speaker 1: get away from football a little bit. Um, maybe I
Speaker 1: because I had more time with him for nine years.
Speaker 1: But you know Tommy, you know, we we go five wide,
Speaker 1: and you know he's he knows that offense and he
Speaker 1: knows what to do it and he's not afraid to
Speaker 1: just you know, all right, let's let's go five out
Speaker 1: instead of I. You know, it doesn't need to be perfect.
Speaker 1: We'll figure it out as we go. We're talking with
Speaker 1: Dan Copen here and Dan my last question here is
Speaker 1: I think fans would like to know. So now you're
Speaker 1: in the next phase of your life, um, the non
Speaker 1: football phase of your life. Yeah. We uh Line Cider
Speaker 1: Brewing Company. It's in East Grane, Rhode Island. You know,
Speaker 1: me and a buddy UM started thinking about it probably
Speaker 1: about three years ago and we've been open for a
Speaker 1: year now, basically a Black Friday. We just had our
Speaker 1: year anniversary. So uh, you did a couple other things
Speaker 1: beforehand and just really wasn't finding it. But you know,
Speaker 1: thirty four, thirty five there, six years old, you're two young,
Speaker 1: retire you got to find something to do every day
Speaker 1: and start home ruin and there was like found you know,
Speaker 1: buddies with this guy. He wanted to change and we
Speaker 1: just decided today let's just take it up a notch
Speaker 1: and try and open up a brewery. And you know,
Speaker 1: thankfully for the year last year, you know, we've been
Speaker 1: able to do that and it's been fun and new
Speaker 1: and challenging. UM, and we're learning every day. So my
Speaker 1: last question, is your beer better than Matt Light's vodka?
Speaker 1: I would like to think so. And I hope he
Speaker 1: comes in here and you ask him that question, and
Speaker 1: I hope he says keel. But the line sider beer
Speaker 1: is pretty good. We're you know, we figured out a
Speaker 1: lot of things from going we you know, we started
Speaker 1: with five gallon batches at home and now we're brewing
Speaker 1: three hundred gallon batches or one hundred and ten in
Speaker 1: our you know, our smaller firm enter. So there's a
Speaker 1: little bit of a learning curve there, um, But for
Speaker 1: a year in I think, you know, we're just going
Speaker 1: to get better as we go. So it's it's exciting.
Speaker 1: We all need something to get out of bed and
Speaker 1: be passionate about. You Certainly we were passionate about playing
Speaker 1: in the National Football League. When you get up today,
Speaker 1: you're passionate about the brewery and all that beer industry. Brewery,
Speaker 1: you know, and you know, we got I got three kids,
Speaker 1: they're ten, eight and six. You know, my wife owns
Speaker 1: a gym as well, so you know, when they're at school,
Speaker 1: we're working. But then when you know they've got hockey practice,
Speaker 1: my boy plays hockey, and boy, that schedule is not fun.
Speaker 1: There's I wish it was six I really at six am.
Speaker 1: If they're not bad, I would I would go to six,
Speaker 1: I'd go to four thirty. It's the traveling that these
Speaker 1: kids gotta do, gotta do. We're going two and a
Speaker 1: half hours the New Hampshire for a game on Saturday.
Speaker 1: That's you know, two three hours the main for easy. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's a great it's fun. I really enjoy watching it
Speaker 1: and play watching him play, but the travel is not
Speaker 1: Does he like it? That's the most important thing for Yeah,
Speaker 1: for ten year old, he does not complain. For as
Speaker 1: much time as he's on the ice and practice three
Speaker 1: days a week and four games on the weekend, he
Speaker 1: is not complained one time. That's great. If he's not
Speaker 1: going to complain, I'm not going to complain and he
Speaker 1: can play whatever it was and it goes fast. Our
Speaker 1: guest is Dan Copenkats from the Past Podcast. Dan, Thanks
Speaker 1: for stopping by, thanks for being here, thank you, thanks
Speaker 1: for having me. Thank you for downloading this podcast. Subscribe
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