WEBVTT - Pats from the Past: Episode 3, Dan Koppen 0:00:06.280 --> 0:00:09.160 Time for another episode of Pats from the Past podcast. 0:00:09.560 --> 0:00:13.360 Matt Smith Brian Worry alongside for Patriots center Dan copen Hope. 0:00:13.360 --> 0:00:15.400 Thanks for joining us today. I appreciate it. Thanks thanks 0:00:15.440 --> 0:00:18.040 for having me. Yeah, it's fund to be back up. Yeah. Um, 0:00:18.480 --> 0:00:21.160 So let'sen you grow up in Pennsylvania, right, Um, went 0:00:21.200 --> 0:00:23.760 to Boston College. The Patriots weren't the Patriots when they 0:00:23.800 --> 0:00:26.400 drafted you? Were they? I mean they'd won it one time, yeah, 0:00:26.440 --> 0:00:28.920 when I was my senior year. Yeah, I'd played another 0:00:29.000 --> 0:00:32.360 year after that, but two thousand and one, Um, you 0:00:32.400 --> 0:00:34.279 know they had a pretty good year that year, right, 0:00:34.360 --> 0:00:37.800 And that's probably where it started with a BC center, right. True? 0:00:38.120 --> 0:00:40.159 Were you just were you excited just to be drafted 0:00:40.159 --> 0:00:42.560 in the NFL at that point in time? Yes, yeah, 0:00:42.360 --> 0:00:45.760 and no doubt about it. It's just it didn't for 0:00:45.760 --> 0:00:48.360 those guys coming out of college and for everybody for 0:00:48.400 --> 0:00:51.559 coming out of college. It's just an honor to be drafted. 0:00:51.600 --> 0:00:53.400 That's what you worked for and you know, that's what 0:00:53.520 --> 0:00:56.240 you dream of it as a little kid. So whether 0:00:56.280 --> 0:00:59.160 it was a Pats or you know, the Raiders, or hell, 0:00:59.240 --> 0:01:02.200 the Bengals for for that matter, throw them in there. 0:01:02.760 --> 0:01:05.000 You're gonna go where you're told, right, we're football players. 0:01:05.000 --> 0:01:07.679 Did you have any idea where you'd be drafted and 0:01:07.720 --> 0:01:09.600 you were in the fifth round, obviously we were hoping 0:01:09.640 --> 0:01:12.680 to be hired. Did you care? In the end, I 0:01:12.720 --> 0:01:15.440 guess it really doesn't matter. Um, I think you always 0:01:15.440 --> 0:01:19.080 want to be you know, there's a little bit of competition, 0:01:19.160 --> 0:01:20.680 and you know you got some pride, so I guess 0:01:20.720 --> 0:01:23.800 you'd always want to be higher. But um, you know, 0:01:24.240 --> 0:01:27.800 fifth round pick um? You know I didn't. You don't 0:01:27.800 --> 0:01:29.600 think this was gonna happen. You know, it wasn't one 0:01:29.640 --> 0:01:32.200 of those kids that in high school, I know I'm 0:01:32.200 --> 0:01:34.679 going to be playing in the NFL or college. It 0:01:34.760 --> 0:01:37.360 was just sort of take a step by step and 0:01:37.440 --> 0:01:41.200 if I get the opportunity, great. So Um, as far 0:01:41.240 --> 0:01:43.200 as did I know, you know, I heard the Bengals, 0:01:43.400 --> 0:01:46.280 you know, we're we're we're interested in the beginning, maybe 0:01:46.319 --> 0:01:48.280 a couple other teams. But the funny thing is, I 0:01:48.320 --> 0:01:50.880 had no idea the Pats we're gonna pick me. Never 0:01:50.880 --> 0:01:53.440 sat down with them, never talked with them. I no. 0:01:53.560 --> 0:01:56.120 Scar was at my workout at at PC and that's 0:01:56.200 --> 0:01:58.600 the only thing I know. And they had a relatively 0:01:58.680 --> 0:02:01.440 young center, right. They was a first round pick. Yeah, 0:02:01.480 --> 0:02:03.240 you know I'm going there with the first round pick 0:02:03.280 --> 0:02:06.160 and coming in and it's like, okay, you know this, 0:02:06.160 --> 0:02:09.280 this is gonna be tough. I there was no you know, 0:02:09.360 --> 0:02:10.920 definite that I was gonna make the team. I was 0:02:10.919 --> 0:02:13.200 just gonna say, what was your expectations did you think? 0:02:13.320 --> 0:02:15.960 Did you say, I think I can make this team 0:02:16.120 --> 0:02:17.920 or were you just let me just take it one 0:02:17.960 --> 0:02:20.200 day at a time. There was one day at a time, 0:02:20.280 --> 0:02:22.520 and then you learned pretty quickly you better take it 0:02:22.560 --> 0:02:25.160 one day at a time up here for the rest 0:02:25.240 --> 0:02:27.920 of your career. Um, you know, I think luckily, I 0:02:27.919 --> 0:02:31.480 mean not luckily. I don't think what he practiced, whether 0:02:31.720 --> 0:02:34.800 you know, his hamstring from the conditioning run or whatever. 0:02:34.840 --> 0:02:37.440 It was my first practice. I don't think what he 0:02:37.560 --> 0:02:40.200 was practicing. So I was thrown with the first unit 0:02:40.320 --> 0:02:43.320 on day one, and that was back when you know 0:02:43.360 --> 0:02:46.760 you're putting full pads on the first day for a 0:02:46.880 --> 0:02:49.720 number of days straight. You know, there's no rules or regulations. 0:02:49.880 --> 0:02:51.680 You know, Bill could do what he wanted to you. 0:02:52.720 --> 0:02:54.920 So we threw the pads on first day. I'm with 0:02:55.000 --> 0:02:58.520 the starting offense. Uh during training camp, and you know, 0:02:58.720 --> 0:03:02.720 probably pretty anxious, nervous. So wait minute, then, if the 0:03:02.800 --> 0:03:05.680 rules were in place that are in place today, maybe 0:03:05.720 --> 0:03:09.400 you don't even emerge or get the opportunities to emerge 0:03:09.200 --> 0:03:11.720 and in training camp. Yeah, no, I mean I think 0:03:12.080 --> 0:03:13.920 you know, obviously you got to prove it, you know, 0:03:14.440 --> 0:03:17.240 over a length of time, and uh, the coaches need 0:03:17.280 --> 0:03:19.399 to have trust in you. The guys around you need 0:03:19.400 --> 0:03:21.799 to have trust in you, uh, in order to make 0:03:21.840 --> 0:03:25.640 this football team. Um. And it really I think me 0:03:25.760 --> 0:03:27.720 being in there and be able to function gave me 0:03:27.800 --> 0:03:30.680 some confidence that they had, you know, didn't put me 0:03:30.720 --> 0:03:32.640 on the team. You know, you had to sustain that 0:03:32.680 --> 0:03:34.520 and keep getting better. Did you Did you have a 0:03:34.560 --> 0:03:37.080 scar moment? Is there a scar moment that you remember 0:03:37.120 --> 0:03:39.400 early on your rookie year, you know you sort of 0:03:39.440 --> 0:03:42.960 can keep your head down. Um, I had a couple 0:03:43.080 --> 0:03:46.920 moments where you know, there's always plays where maybe you 0:03:47.000 --> 0:03:48.640 go the wrong way or do the wrong thing. But 0:03:48.680 --> 0:03:51.160 I mean we were running an outside zone to the 0:03:51.240 --> 0:03:54.280 right and I went left, the only person on the 0:03:54.280 --> 0:03:57.120 offensive line, and it's it's it's probably one of the 0:03:57.120 --> 0:03:59.200 easiest players to run. All you basically have to do 0:03:59.280 --> 0:04:01.120 is go to the right. I go to left. There's 0:04:01.160 --> 0:04:03.400 four guys going to the right and one guy going 0:04:03.440 --> 0:04:05.680 to the left, and it's just you know, you come 0:04:05.720 --> 0:04:08.520 back in and it's you look at the the the 0:04:08.560 --> 0:04:12.920 images on the play after in between series, and that 0:04:12.960 --> 0:04:15.920 play comes up and sometimes those pictures happen, you know, 0:04:15.960 --> 0:04:18.520 maybe a second or two into the snap, and sure 0:04:18.600 --> 0:04:20.440 enough there's four guys going to the right and me 0:04:20.680 --> 0:04:23.240 right in the middle going to the left. And got 0:04:23.240 --> 0:04:26.360 an earl earful from Scar on that one. But you 0:04:26.960 --> 0:04:29.200 learn really quick too. I mean, you're a rookie. You 0:04:29.279 --> 0:04:30.839 keep your head down, you don't say a lot. You 0:04:30.880 --> 0:04:33.039 just try and do the best you can. But you know, 0:04:33.040 --> 0:04:35.440 those other guys that get comfortable or whatever, you know, 0:04:35.440 --> 0:04:38.280 you learn that Scars not afraid to to to get 0:04:38.320 --> 0:04:40.680 in you. It also helped that you could shotgun snap. 0:04:41.360 --> 0:04:43.400 They didn't have to switch. I think Compton, you know, 0:04:43.480 --> 0:04:45.719 really appreciated that when I was in there. Yeah, he 0:04:45.760 --> 0:04:49.000 didn't have to move over to center. Um. Yeah, So 0:04:49.200 --> 0:04:51.640 and then what do you went in? Started game one 0:04:51.720 --> 0:04:53.960 that was the thirty one and nothing game up in Buffalo. 0:04:55.080 --> 0:04:58.680 Um bred you through a pass London Fletcher came and 0:04:58.839 --> 0:05:02.040 you know, sort of clear Kolcock Woody, so he went out, 0:05:02.040 --> 0:05:03.800 he had to Bruce Sturnham, so he didn't play week 0:05:03.839 --> 0:05:07.239 two in Philly. So I played week two and then Compton, 0:05:07.839 --> 0:05:11.680 you know, broke his foot or rebroke it from training camp, 0:05:11.720 --> 0:05:13.760 and then when he came back, they moved him the 0:05:14.000 --> 0:05:16.800 left guard and that was it. So did that surprise 0:05:16.880 --> 0:05:19.279 you or at that point time, maybe Dana you conditioned 0:05:19.360 --> 0:05:23.440 to not be surprised. I'm not surprised at that point, 0:05:23.480 --> 0:05:26.280 because you know, when you you're only gonna keep eight 0:05:26.360 --> 0:05:30.000 or nine guys. If they're dressing you, they're dressing you 0:05:30.040 --> 0:05:32.560 for a reason. Sometimes we only dress seven linemen in 0:05:32.600 --> 0:05:34.640 a game, so if someone goes down, you're going in. 0:05:35.279 --> 0:05:36.839 You don't have a choice. You don't have a choice 0:05:36.839 --> 0:05:39.920 when we have two guys suited up to play. So 0:05:40.000 --> 0:05:42.080 when he went down, it just was one of those 0:05:42.120 --> 0:05:45.240 natural things like okay, I'm just we're just gonna step 0:05:45.279 --> 0:05:49.240 in and go. The center has a lot of responsibilities, obviously, 0:05:49.240 --> 0:05:53.320 with calling out certain protections and whatnot. I've always perceived 0:05:53.440 --> 0:05:55.719 here that Tom does a lot of that. Can you 0:05:55.800 --> 0:05:57.799 kind of give us some insight on how that works 0:05:57.800 --> 0:06:01.280 with the center and the quarterback here? Well, Tom does 0:06:01.320 --> 0:06:04.599 a lot here. There's there's no doubt about it. Um, 0:06:04.680 --> 0:06:07.640 Josh and Charlie, you know, whoever was the offensive cordiner 0:06:07.680 --> 0:06:10.000 or Billy Oh. You know, the quarterback can see the 0:06:10.040 --> 0:06:12.760 whole field and they can see the safeties, they can 0:06:12.760 --> 0:06:15.080 see the corners, they can see the rotation and where 0:06:15.120 --> 0:06:19.000 where everybody is. So most teams, the center will call 0:06:19.040 --> 0:06:21.640 the mic point, which is the middle linebacker in every protection. 0:06:21.720 --> 0:06:24.800 Every run scheme is based off of that. That's he's 0:06:24.839 --> 0:06:27.480 the middle guy, and everybody knows who's who's who and 0:06:27.560 --> 0:06:30.160 who has who after that point. So you know, if 0:06:30.200 --> 0:06:32.719 I can't see the rotation very well, um, you know, 0:06:32.839 --> 0:06:35.360 being you know, bent down and you know, touching the ball, 0:06:36.120 --> 0:06:38.160 you know, it makes sense that the quarterback can do it. 0:06:38.320 --> 0:06:41.560 That being said, he I identify as the quarterback. The 0:06:41.560 --> 0:06:44.240 play calls, a play call the protections of protections. Everybody's 0:06:44.240 --> 0:06:45.920 got to do their job after that point and make 0:06:45.960 --> 0:06:48.480 their specific call. Sometimes, you know, the center has a 0:06:48.480 --> 0:06:52.200 little bit more um, a little bit more control. But here, 0:06:52.600 --> 0:06:56.599 like everybody was really smart, especially on the offensive line, Matt, 0:06:56.720 --> 0:06:58.920 like you know, Russ Hoaks tied, Steve, Neil, Joe and 0:06:59.000 --> 0:07:02.840 drewsie Worth, all those guys Logan forever. You know, they 0:07:02.880 --> 0:07:05.719 were smart, so you didn't really have to tell them 0:07:05.760 --> 0:07:07.360 what to do. They knew what I was doing. I 0:07:07.480 --> 0:07:09.880 knew what they were doing, and um, you know, you 0:07:10.000 --> 0:07:12.080 really really got in there if it was something need 0:07:12.080 --> 0:07:14.600 to be corrected or we switched something up. As you're 0:07:14.640 --> 0:07:17.600 starting your NFL career, Tom has got a ring under 0:07:17.640 --> 0:07:19.080 his belt and a couple years on his belt. But 0:07:19.120 --> 0:07:21.240 Tom's not Tom at that point in time, And so 0:07:21.960 --> 0:07:24.760 did it help you maybe that as you're developing, as 0:07:24.800 --> 0:07:26.840 you're starting your NFL career, you're kind of doing it 0:07:26.880 --> 0:07:31.480 in tandem with him, as opposed to you know, Ferrens, 0:07:31.880 --> 0:07:34.200 who you know is just getting his first start maybe 0:07:34.240 --> 0:07:36.440 this week, and he's looking up and is going okay, 0:07:36.520 --> 0:07:38.840 And I know that that's got to he's got to 0:07:38.880 --> 0:07:40.720 get rid of that thought pretty quickly. But it's a 0:07:40.720 --> 0:07:42.920 different Tom than when you started, when you were playing. Yeah, 0:07:42.920 --> 0:07:44.480 but I mean France has been here for a couple 0:07:44.520 --> 0:07:46.560 of years now, right, So yeah, I think he's pretty 0:07:46.600 --> 0:07:49.280 comfortable and he knows who Tom is. And you're right, 0:07:49.320 --> 0:07:53.360 Tom wasn't you know the met Galla guy going with 0:07:53.560 --> 0:07:56.960 you know, the supermodel wife to h you know, to 0:07:57.080 --> 0:08:00.320 that party. So but it was fun. You see, still 0:08:00.400 --> 0:08:02.840 quarterback that won a Super Bowl and everybody knew his name. 0:08:02.960 --> 0:08:04.800 You know, you go out to dinner at that point 0:08:04.800 --> 0:08:07.720 and you know, you just really he couldn't even get 0:08:07.760 --> 0:08:10.680 a Biden at some point because you know he was 0:08:10.720 --> 0:08:12.760 that guy? Was he? But you meet him the first 0:08:12.760 --> 0:08:15.560 time and you realize quickly he's not that guy that 0:08:15.640 --> 0:08:18.000 you see and you know he's just he's a down 0:08:18.000 --> 0:08:20.320 to earth as they come. Was he demand? Was he? Was? 0:08:20.400 --> 0:08:23.840 He as demanding that early on in his career when 0:08:23.840 --> 0:08:27.600 you started, as he was when you left New England. Uh. 0:08:29.040 --> 0:08:31.360 I think that's what makes him and you know, not 0:08:31.400 --> 0:08:34.400 only him, but all winners, winners or you know, competitors, 0:08:34.400 --> 0:08:37.800 they demand a lot from you every day and you 0:08:37.840 --> 0:08:40.280 know that's how he makes this team better, that's how 0:08:40.320 --> 0:08:43.400 he gets better. So you want that in a quarterback, 0:08:43.400 --> 0:08:45.400 that to be that demanding. Yeah, I mean, let being said, 0:08:45.400 --> 0:08:47.640 you know, he's a guy throwing the ball and handing 0:08:47.679 --> 0:08:50.160 the ball after in practice, right, He's not out there 0:08:50.240 --> 0:08:53.240 hitting every day. So when he gets when he gets 0:08:53.280 --> 0:08:55.120 angry and yells in the huddle in the middle of 0:08:55.320 --> 0:08:58.120 day fourteen a training camp. The lines sitting there look 0:08:58.120 --> 0:09:00.360 at HS like relaxed, buddy, you haven't been hit for 0:09:00.760 --> 0:09:02.960 two weeks, so that could get redhaired up. That gets 0:09:02.960 --> 0:09:05.080 a little old, and it's like, come on, just go 0:09:05.120 --> 0:09:07.240 over there and play catch. That's oh yeah, hey, go 0:09:07.360 --> 0:09:09.480 try and throw the ball in the barrel. Well, every 0:09:09.600 --> 0:09:11.920 while the offensive line the defensive line are just sitting 0:09:11.920 --> 0:09:15.319 there sucking wind and you know, their body aches getting 0:09:15.360 --> 0:09:18.200 yelled at by Scar. Yes, and there was no downtime 0:09:18.200 --> 0:09:21.240 with Scar, no doubt. During special teams. You go other places. 0:09:21.360 --> 0:09:24.520 Special teams are like breaks for offensive line. Here we 0:09:24.520 --> 0:09:26.920 were working on screens, we were working on There was 0:09:27.040 --> 0:09:29.800 no downtime. And you know, again that's what makes this 0:09:29.920 --> 0:09:32.600 team special. They're not afraid to work. And that demanding 0:09:32.679 --> 0:09:34.400 part of it though, I mean I was focusing on 0:09:34.440 --> 0:09:35.960 Tom there, but it's not a Tom thing. It's an 0:09:36.040 --> 0:09:38.880 organization thing. It comes from the top, you know, So 0:09:39.040 --> 0:09:42.760 Bills demanding, the assistant coaches are demanding your position, coaches 0:09:42.800 --> 0:09:46.200 demanding their quarterbacks demanding. That has to rub off on 0:09:46.280 --> 0:09:49.320 your entire unit. Absolutely, I mean, you're right, it comes 0:09:49.320 --> 0:09:51.080 from the top and it's Bill, And you see how 0:09:51.080 --> 0:09:54.480 hard he works those coaches, but in return, those coaches 0:09:54.520 --> 0:09:56.760 work that hard. So you know there's a respect there. 0:09:56.760 --> 0:09:58.600 And when you see your coaches doing that, you know 0:09:59.120 --> 0:10:02.080 you want to to return that respect. Did the best 0:10:02.080 --> 0:10:04.880 he can for him and the staff and what they 0:10:04.920 --> 0:10:07.319 do in the hours that they put in. It's a 0:10:07.400 --> 0:10:11.040 it's amazing. It's funny you mentioned Tom wasn't that guy, 0:10:11.200 --> 0:10:16.400 like he wasn't the six time yet. I still remember 0:10:16.440 --> 0:10:19.199 after your rookie year, I went in the locker room 0:10:19.280 --> 0:10:21.600 during rookie orientations. There was no media and it wasn't 0:10:21.640 --> 0:10:23.640 a media time. I was. I had a feature story 0:10:23.720 --> 0:10:26.920 lined up that I was doing with Tom and I 0:10:26.960 --> 0:10:29.679 was sitting at his locker interviewing him about the super 0:10:29.679 --> 0:10:32.439 Bowl and about you know, just his career to that point. 0:10:32.840 --> 0:10:36.240 And Cedric Cobbs, I think it was running back Arkansas, 0:10:36.840 --> 0:10:40.480 he was a rookie. He walks over, He interrupts us, 0:10:40.520 --> 0:10:43.280 He goes, excuse me, I just wanted to introduce myself, 0:10:43.559 --> 0:10:47.120 mister Brady Cedric Cobbs and said. He goes, nice to 0:10:47.120 --> 0:10:49.160 meet you. I'll talk to you soon, and he walks away. 0:10:49.160 --> 0:10:52.839 I go, mister Brady, Yeah, what was he probably twenty 0:10:52.880 --> 0:10:57.480 four time looking around for his dad. Now you can 0:10:57.520 --> 0:11:01.200 get away with it at five forty right now, right, 0:11:02.360 --> 0:11:05.400 So your rookie year, Dan, you know that's got to 0:11:05.440 --> 0:11:07.959 be pretty heavy stuff. You know, you get drafted, you 0:11:08.000 --> 0:11:09.839 don't know what's going to happen. You know, all of 0:11:09.880 --> 0:11:12.440 a sudden, you get your insert into the lineup. You 0:11:12.440 --> 0:11:14.520 guys go fourteen and two and you're in the super Bowl. 0:11:14.520 --> 0:11:17.400 You'r rookie year, yea, And then you start to everybody 0:11:17.400 --> 0:11:20.080 talk smack, you know, and you and I don't know 0:11:20.120 --> 0:11:23.000 if the SAP stuff got to you or you guys, 0:11:23.000 --> 0:11:25.959 Oh yeah, yeah, because we had a backup, backup guard 0:11:26.200 --> 0:11:29.240 playing in the playoffs, right and not a big deal. Okay, 0:11:29.360 --> 0:11:31.160 that must have been a pretty heavy thing for a 0:11:31.240 --> 0:11:33.400 kid in his rookie year to be playing in the 0:11:33.440 --> 0:11:36.160 Super Bowl and playing on this team and having the 0:11:36.240 --> 0:11:37.839 kind of record that you guys had that year and 0:11:37.920 --> 0:11:40.520 getting ready to play in that game. It's a long season, 0:11:40.679 --> 0:11:43.360 you know, you have seventh we were, but nineteen games 0:11:43.400 --> 0:11:46.439 at that point. You throw four preseason games and um, 0:11:46.480 --> 0:11:52.160 you're going from the combine into mini camps and OTAs 0:11:52.240 --> 0:11:55.000 and training camps. So that first year is really long. 0:11:55.040 --> 0:11:57.760 And then you throw nineteen games onto that. It is long, 0:11:57.800 --> 0:12:01.800 and wouldn't have it any other way, but it's it's 0:12:01.800 --> 0:12:04.360 you're so new to it. You know, you don't really know, 0:12:04.559 --> 0:12:07.840 you don't you know, first game, first snap, you snap 0:12:07.840 --> 0:12:11.120 it and the nerves go right, and that's usually how 0:12:11.120 --> 0:12:13.440 it goes. That's how it was basically from my first 0:12:13.440 --> 0:12:15.760 game on. But not the Super Bowl. I mean that's 0:12:15.800 --> 0:12:18.400 just a different game. I think my hand was shaking 0:12:18.440 --> 0:12:21.920 for ten ten minutes and well into the second quarter. Wow, 0:12:22.280 --> 0:12:24.480 it that game gets to you. But I remember at 0:12:24.480 --> 0:12:27.920 the Rookie Symposium, someone got up on stage and was 0:12:27.960 --> 0:12:30.200 just like, take a look around. It's all the rookies 0:12:30.200 --> 0:12:33.240 that got drafted. Just take a look around one of 0:12:33.280 --> 0:12:35.160 this you know groups you sit as a team. One 0:12:35.160 --> 0:12:36.559 of these teams is going to walk away with like 0:12:36.600 --> 0:12:39.160 super Bowl rings. And looking back on it after that 0:12:39.240 --> 0:12:42.280 years like, holy crap, you know we were the ones 0:12:42.320 --> 0:12:44.079 that were able to walk away with super Bowl rings, 0:12:44.200 --> 0:12:46.600 you realize how special it is. What was it like 0:12:46.640 --> 0:12:49.840 when during that week when when Warren Sapp was talking 0:12:49.880 --> 0:12:53.440 about that, I mean, Ross was going up against Chris Jenkins, 0:12:53.840 --> 0:12:58.160 Pro Bowl All Pro type player, and you know he 0:12:58.440 --> 0:13:00.760 kind of was that unproven guy. It was filling in 0:13:01.120 --> 0:13:05.360 and Buckner, Julius Peppers. Yeah, I forget the other defensive end, 0:13:05.360 --> 0:13:07.959 but that Yeah, that front four was good. And h 0:13:08.320 --> 0:13:12.480 I think it's it's good Like Russ has played for 0:13:12.640 --> 0:13:15.080 us before. We had complete confidence in him. You know, 0:13:15.080 --> 0:13:18.120 we practiced next to him. It wasn't a matter of oh, 0:13:18.160 --> 0:13:19.760 we got to back up. It was just like, Okay, 0:13:19.800 --> 0:13:21.599 Russa is in and he was in for the a 0:13:21.600 --> 0:13:23.800 FC championship game, and he was in after what he 0:13:23.800 --> 0:13:25.560 got hurt, and you know they believe it's a Tennessee 0:13:25.600 --> 0:13:27.800 game or something. Yes, so he played a lot in 0:13:27.840 --> 0:13:31.440 those playoffs. So for us, it's really just you know, 0:13:31.559 --> 0:13:34.520 ignore what they're saying, but use it. You know, let's 0:13:34.520 --> 0:13:35.720 go out there and show him that we can go. 0:13:35.720 --> 0:13:38.440 I don't think we gave up a sack since he 0:13:38.600 --> 0:13:40.960 came in. Maybe I didn't. We definitely didn't give a 0:13:40.960 --> 0:13:43.480 sack up a second in the Super Bowl. I don't 0:13:43.520 --> 0:13:46.440 think so. No. So you're talking about a long year 0:13:46.559 --> 0:13:49.880 and rookie symposium in nineteen games and all this stuff, 0:13:49.960 --> 0:13:53.679 mini camp, and and so you win it and then 0:13:53.720 --> 0:13:56.080 you win it again the next year. It was so 0:13:56.120 --> 0:13:59.800 fun let's just do it again. Yeah. Yeah, that's a 0:14:00.000 --> 0:14:03.200 out of football in two years. And I guess that's 0:14:03.360 --> 0:14:05.080 that's how you come in the NFL and just go 0:14:05.160 --> 0:14:09.040 back to back right real quick? Did was there a 0:14:09.280 --> 0:14:11.040 point in time and I don't know if the train's 0:14:11.040 --> 0:14:12.880 still going really fast and you haven't had a chance 0:14:12.920 --> 0:14:14.600 for really to catch up, But are you thinking they're going? 0:14:15.080 --> 0:14:16.760 You know, my first two years we went. I mean, 0:14:16.840 --> 0:14:18.960 nobody wins back to back Super Bowls. It's a it's 0:14:18.960 --> 0:14:22.120 a monumental accomplishment to get there, let alone win it. 0:14:22.400 --> 0:14:24.240 You went it your first two years. Do you do 0:14:24.320 --> 0:14:27.040 you take a second and go, Wow, this doesn't happen 0:14:27.160 --> 0:14:29.560 very often. I might be a part of something special here. 0:14:30.040 --> 0:14:34.120 Uh yeah, I think so, because I remember talking to 0:14:34.240 --> 0:14:36.600 Rodney or hearing him say he went to the super 0:14:36.600 --> 0:14:39.920 Bowl his rookie year and then I don't even think 0:14:39.920 --> 0:14:42.320 he touched the playoffs and definitely never made it back 0:14:42.360 --> 0:14:45.040 to the super Bowl until that year. So you look 0:14:45.080 --> 0:14:46.960 at how long his career at that point at that 0:14:47.000 --> 0:14:49.440 point was and how good he was, and how good 0:14:49.480 --> 0:14:52.840 some of those teams he was on were, and I 0:14:52.880 --> 0:14:55.880 think that puts that back to back in perspective when 0:14:55.920 --> 0:14:59.320 a guy like that hasn't been there since his rookie year. 0:14:59.360 --> 0:15:03.320 It's I mean, this league's meant to be sort of balanced, 0:15:03.440 --> 0:15:05.520 and these teams are you know, it's supposed to be 0:15:05.520 --> 0:15:09.840 competitive and everybody's a professional. Everybody's big, everybody's smart, everybody's fast, 0:15:09.880 --> 0:15:11.840 and there's a lot of good coaches out there to win. 0:15:13.040 --> 0:15:15.920 You know, thirty four and four my first two year, 0:15:16.000 --> 0:15:20.440 ridiculous rings right, that's pretty good. Yeah, that's a culture here. 0:15:20.480 --> 0:15:22.480 I mean it was people just put their head down 0:15:22.480 --> 0:15:24.560 and you know, don't worry about last year, don't worry 0:15:24.560 --> 0:15:26.480 about last week. Let's just what can we do this 0:15:26.520 --> 0:15:29.200 week to be this this team. But as you're now 0:15:29.240 --> 0:15:32.240 out of it, Dan, okay, can you look back and 0:15:32.280 --> 0:15:34.000 do you look back with it with a little bit 0:15:34.000 --> 0:15:35.880 of a fondness to say you just said the words 0:15:35.960 --> 0:15:38.880 that's the culture here. You are part of building that 0:15:38.960 --> 0:15:40.840 culture here. You know, there are guys who are coming 0:15:40.840 --> 0:15:43.840 in today who look back at a Dan Copen and go, wow, 0:15:44.000 --> 0:15:45.840 I remember him, look at how many years he played 0:15:45.840 --> 0:15:48.080 here and things like that. I'm not trying to, of 0:15:48.160 --> 0:15:50.960 course they do, but after this, after this podcast, But 0:15:51.600 --> 0:15:53.400 I mean, you are a part of that, and it 0:15:53.560 --> 0:15:56.080 is different now because you were part of something that 0:15:56.120 --> 0:15:59.160 you did build. Yeah, no, I never looked at it. 0:15:59.240 --> 0:16:01.760 Someone mentioned that to me within the last year and 0:16:02.440 --> 0:16:04.320 usually I just say no. But it is kind of 0:16:04.360 --> 0:16:06.760 cool to see what they're doing here. Obviously we're not 0:16:07.400 --> 0:16:09.640 in there working with them and they're going out. You know, 0:16:09.640 --> 0:16:11.400 it's kind of like Bill, you know, I'm not the 0:16:11.440 --> 0:16:13.320 one out there making plays. You guys are. They're out 0:16:13.360 --> 0:16:17.120 on the football field. But to see them doing so well, um, 0:16:17.160 --> 0:16:20.120 and really acting as we did back then and keeping 0:16:20.160 --> 0:16:22.280 that culture as he said as uh, you know, it's 0:16:22.320 --> 0:16:25.040 it's a proud thing and um, you know, I hope 0:16:25.040 --> 0:16:27.360 everybody that was here that established that has you know 0:16:27.400 --> 0:16:30.360 a little pride and putting that in here and you know, 0:16:31.360 --> 0:16:33.880 instilling it and it's still here. You've got ownership in it, 0:16:34.200 --> 0:16:36.120 regardless of where you were in that. You know, there's 0:16:36.120 --> 0:16:37.880 a lot of people who were involved in that. But 0:16:37.920 --> 0:16:40.200 you've got to look, you've got you all have a 0:16:40.240 --> 0:16:42.160 little bit of piece of that. Yeah, and you know 0:16:42.240 --> 0:16:43.920 they see him do well, but yeah, we take pride 0:16:43.960 --> 0:16:46.200 and not for sure what does it take to be 0:16:46.440 --> 0:16:48.800 I mean I think you quickly became one of Tom's guys. 0:16:49.320 --> 0:16:51.200 What does it take to be one of Tom's guys? 0:16:52.640 --> 0:16:55.600 Just trust? I guess, you know, I mean, yeah, to 0:16:55.760 --> 0:16:57.960 just just trust and you know, and when we stepped 0:16:57.960 --> 0:17:00.160 away from the football field, and it really on the 0:17:00.160 --> 0:17:03.840 football field from one, there's a there's a relationship that 0:17:03.920 --> 0:17:06.360 a quarterback in the center half. Sometimes the snaps are 0:17:06.400 --> 0:17:08.720 just easy and you know, it just sort of fits, 0:17:08.760 --> 0:17:11.000 and sometimes it's not, and you got to really work 0:17:11.000 --> 0:17:13.600 at it. You know, from day one when I came in, 0:17:13.680 --> 0:17:16.080 there was never any issues of snaps. You know, we 0:17:16.080 --> 0:17:19.080 were on the same page. It felt good, you know, 0:17:19.400 --> 0:17:22.080 it just it. There was a good relationship and I 0:17:22.119 --> 0:17:24.840 think they just carried off the field as well. And 0:17:24.880 --> 0:17:26.320 when we went out, we had a good time and 0:17:26.359 --> 0:17:30.119 it wasn't about you know, football time. There was you know, 0:17:30.160 --> 0:17:32.560 a friendship off the field as well. Sadly, there's probably 0:17:32.600 --> 0:17:34.320 not a lot of people Brian listening to this that 0:17:34.560 --> 0:17:36.920 remember this. But I know Dan does. I know that 0:17:37.000 --> 0:17:39.119 both of us do. But and again it did a 0:17:39.160 --> 0:17:41.560 different era, Dan, but you know, you maybe got a 0:17:41.640 --> 0:17:45.560 chance to um receive or taste some of the spoils 0:17:45.600 --> 0:17:48.480 that were as being associated with Tom Brady. I hope 0:17:48.480 --> 0:17:51.280 everybody remembers the visa commercial. Yeah, you know, yeah, and 0:17:51.320 --> 0:17:55.120 that was protection five Layers of Protection, right. Russ Hochstein 0:17:55.320 --> 0:17:57.679 was the star of that one, no doubt. But that 0:17:57.720 --> 0:18:00.080 was a pretty cool thing, don't you think. Yeah, I 0:18:00.680 --> 0:18:03.080 forgot about that. I actually have a copy of that 0:18:03.280 --> 0:18:07.200 at home. But yeah, that was that was that day 0:18:07.280 --> 0:18:09.479 like that was that was. That was fun because it 0:18:09.520 --> 0:18:12.040 was with all of us. Um. But it's kind of 0:18:12.080 --> 0:18:14.520 weird because you're in a trailer and you know, you're 0:18:14.560 --> 0:18:17.159 the only ones with full gear on and you sit there. 0:18:17.280 --> 0:18:20.040 He's got regular clothes on and you're taping up or 0:18:20.560 --> 0:18:22.760 and you got people putting makeup on or something and 0:18:23.040 --> 0:18:25.959 cameras and lights for the first time and directors, um. 0:18:26.160 --> 0:18:29.399 But you know, he got that for us, and you know, 0:18:29.440 --> 0:18:31.640 I was like, he's kind of a big deal. How 0:18:31.640 --> 0:18:33.359 come you get to be fraud protection. I want to 0:18:33.359 --> 0:18:36.560 be fraud protected? Yeah, I want to be coaching at 0:18:36.600 --> 0:18:39.200 the end, right, right, was it did did that and 0:18:39.240 --> 0:18:42.240 so you know you obviously wanted in his second year 0:18:42.359 --> 0:18:44.399 and was you know, you could see the ascent happening, 0:18:44.400 --> 0:18:46.160 but as you're kind of being a part of that 0:18:46.200 --> 0:18:48.760 and the rest of the line of everything. Do you see, Hey, 0:18:48.800 --> 0:18:52.119 something's happening here. You know, this guy's he might be 0:18:52.160 --> 0:18:54.159 a little bit better than just a good player. Was 0:18:54.160 --> 0:18:56.679 there something there after those couple times where you want it? 0:18:56.800 --> 0:19:00.080 I think, yeah, there's no way you can deny it 0:19:00.119 --> 0:19:03.320 at that point of how good he was, Um and 0:19:03.400 --> 0:19:05.840 the great ones do they just out work. It doesn't 0:19:05.880 --> 0:19:07.840 matter what level he got or you know, he was 0:19:07.840 --> 0:19:09.640 the best player in the NFL back then, he still 0:19:09.680 --> 0:19:11.679 worked as he was that, you know, like he was 0:19:11.680 --> 0:19:14.480 the last draft picker won whatever what eighty one or 0:19:14.520 --> 0:19:18.440 whatever he was nine. So you know, it's you see 0:19:18.440 --> 0:19:20.760 the work that they put into it, and they deserved 0:19:20.800 --> 0:19:23.680 the success because you know, that's how you get there. 0:19:23.800 --> 0:19:27.120 And at that point, what he was able to do, 0:19:27.560 --> 0:19:30.639 UM win with different teams. You know, we were a 0:19:30.680 --> 0:19:33.000 defensive team, we were a running team in the beginning, 0:19:33.040 --> 0:19:36.040 you know, ball control and these tight scoring games, low 0:19:36.080 --> 0:19:38.639 scoring games, and then we won then and then we 0:19:38.680 --> 0:19:40.879 won to know seven when we opened everything up and 0:19:40.920 --> 0:19:43.520 we're you know, probably more of a passing team at 0:19:43.520 --> 0:19:46.639 that point, Um, but we were able to flip flop 0:19:46.640 --> 0:19:49.320 and do different identities, and he could he could be 0:19:49.359 --> 0:19:51.280 the you know the guy and can command them on 0:19:51.400 --> 0:19:53.719 all of them. So that's pretty cool. So speaking of 0:19:53.800 --> 0:19:57.280 hard work, um, I was talking to Dwayne Allen last 0:19:57.320 --> 0:19:58.879 year at the tight end, who had played for the 0:19:58.880 --> 0:20:00.880 Colts and was on the team came here and lost 0:20:00.920 --> 0:20:04.480 forty five to seven, and he said, when he was 0:20:04.520 --> 0:20:07.119 on the Colts, he looked across the sideline at the 0:20:07.240 --> 0:20:10.000 end of that game and he just didn't get it, like, 0:20:10.160 --> 0:20:13.400 why are we getting killed by this Patriots team? They're 0:20:13.440 --> 0:20:16.720 not better than us? And then he signed here and 0:20:16.800 --> 0:20:22.040 he said, simply, I realized they just work harder than everybody. Yes, 0:20:22.480 --> 0:20:26.000 Is it that simple? I think? I mean yes and no. 0:20:26.359 --> 0:20:28.440 But that's probably the best way to put it, because 0:20:28.680 --> 0:20:30.320 you know, when I went to Denver, not to say 0:20:30.359 --> 0:20:32.520 that they didn't work hard. They did, and you know 0:20:32.520 --> 0:20:35.959 everybody works hard, but there's just a different level of 0:20:36.000 --> 0:20:39.800 work ethic or what's expected or what is working hard 0:20:39.840 --> 0:20:43.800 here is probably out of you know, thirty one clubs, 0:20:44.080 --> 0:20:46.760 you know the league. You know, they just they just 0:20:46.800 --> 0:20:49.320 can't keep up, and it's it's a day to day 0:20:49.359 --> 0:20:52.760 grind and it's it's expected every day we go somewhere 0:20:52.800 --> 0:20:55.800 else like this, Isn't that hard. You know you can 0:20:56.440 --> 0:20:58.800 you can do this and it's fun and you know 0:20:58.960 --> 0:21:01.640 they win too sometimes. Can you can you define that? 0:21:01.680 --> 0:21:04.359 Maybe so for people who don't understand what that means, Dan, 0:21:04.480 --> 0:21:08.040 because I think everybody assumes that everybody works hard. What 0:21:08.720 --> 0:21:11.479 how would you define what working hard here in New 0:21:11.560 --> 0:21:17.199 England means you're expected to know the opponent before you 0:21:17.240 --> 0:21:20.280 even get a game plan. Right, So the games on 0:21:20.320 --> 0:21:23.560 Sunday you have, you're in here on Monday, Tuesday, you're 0:21:23.600 --> 0:21:27.679 off Wednesday morning at eight o'clock, you're already prepared before 0:21:27.720 --> 0:21:30.080 Bill starts asking questions at eight o'clock in the morning. 0:21:30.119 --> 0:21:32.000 They haven't even passed out a game plan, you know, 0:21:32.440 --> 0:21:34.399 So you're doing that in your off days. Like I 0:21:34.440 --> 0:21:38.159 said before, with the special team units on other teams, 0:21:38.240 --> 0:21:40.440 linemen are resting. If you get downtime, you can rest. 0:21:40.840 --> 0:21:43.439 There's no downtime in practice because they can use that 0:21:43.960 --> 0:21:46.919 time to get better, whether it's just going over talking stuff, 0:21:47.320 --> 0:21:52.480 but there's no breaks, so you know that stuff. You know, 0:21:53.359 --> 0:21:57.080 guys focusing maybe more on you know, their teammates than 0:21:57.119 --> 0:22:00.879 themselves and not really give and into the you know, 0:22:00.920 --> 0:22:04.720 the banter back and forth between other other teams. That 0:22:04.800 --> 0:22:08.080 happen sometimes and just really, hey, that other stuff doesn't matter. 0:22:08.320 --> 0:22:10.040 It's it's what we do in this locker room and 0:22:10.119 --> 0:22:12.479 on that football field. That's not for everybody either, by 0:22:12.480 --> 0:22:14.879 the way. No, it's tough. It's tough. And I played 0:22:14.960 --> 0:22:17.560 for Bill for nine years and he'll tell you after 0:22:17.640 --> 0:22:19.800 every year he appreciates what you do, and you know, 0:22:19.840 --> 0:22:23.200 he's a hard guy to play for. But after nine years, 0:22:23.480 --> 0:22:25.479 he's a he's a hard guy to play for and 0:22:25.560 --> 0:22:28.000 not everybody can do it. Do you think playing for 0:22:28.080 --> 0:22:30.760 him as you embark on this other part of your 0:22:30.760 --> 0:22:32.520 life right now, or there are things that you take 0:22:32.560 --> 0:22:35.280 from him that you know help you maybe in business 0:22:35.880 --> 0:22:38.119 or maybe even being a dad for that. You know, 0:22:38.359 --> 0:22:40.280 I tell people all the time. You know, it's not 0:22:40.440 --> 0:22:43.080 just the NFL. It's just not the Patriot way. It's 0:22:43.160 --> 0:22:45.080 kind of you know, how you live your life. You 0:22:45.160 --> 0:22:48.919 get a lot of great qualities and values from playing sports, 0:22:48.920 --> 0:22:52.600 and especially team sports with discipline and accountability and work 0:22:52.640 --> 0:22:57.760 ethic and uh, you know, teamwork and developing that sense 0:22:57.760 --> 0:23:00.159 of camaraderie. And that's that you can use it your 0:23:00.160 --> 0:23:02.040 personal life. You can use it in your business life, 0:23:02.040 --> 0:23:04.840 and if you're you're honest with yourself and you're trying 0:23:04.840 --> 0:23:06.639 to be that good person in trying to put it, 0:23:06.720 --> 0:23:09.000 you know, an honest day's work in. You know, chances 0:23:09.000 --> 0:23:10.840 are you going to be successful at whatever you do. 0:23:11.080 --> 0:23:13.520 You mentioned we talked earlier about you know, first two 0:23:13.560 --> 0:23:15.840 years back to back and just a thrill of victory 0:23:15.880 --> 0:23:18.480 and winning two Super Bowls your first two years. Let's 0:23:18.520 --> 0:23:21.720 fast forward two years into the AFC Championship game in Indianapolis. 0:23:22.000 --> 0:23:24.120 Does that one still keep you up at night at all? Yeah, 0:23:24.160 --> 0:23:27.040 there's a couple that one. That one definitely does you 0:23:27.040 --> 0:23:30.399 know that that we let that one slip away? Um, 0:23:30.520 --> 0:23:32.920 you know, unfortunately things happened and they got on a roll, 0:23:32.960 --> 0:23:34.960 and you know we say it all the time, but 0:23:35.000 --> 0:23:38.800 they just made more plays than we did in especially 0:23:38.880 --> 0:23:41.240 late in the game. Um, you get sixty and Kleo 0:23:41.320 --> 0:23:45.080 scoring that game? Yeah, Cleco Logan Logan scored, I believe 0:23:45.280 --> 0:23:48.000 for us and the ball bounced right and if it 0:23:48.000 --> 0:23:50.040 would have bounced left, I would have had it. But 0:23:50.080 --> 0:23:52.320 then thinking back, it's like, what I really want my 0:23:52.640 --> 0:23:54.960 only touchdown to be in a game that we lost, 0:23:55.320 --> 0:23:58.879 especially the AFC Championship game. So it was Yeah, it 0:23:58.920 --> 0:24:00.480 was a weird game. They just got on a roll 0:24:00.520 --> 0:24:04.600 and just couldn't We couldn't make enough places down the stretch. It. 0:24:04.680 --> 0:24:09.000 But there's I'm sure you know the Yeah, does losing 0:24:09.040 --> 0:24:15.400 suck more than winning? Is you fork? Short term? Yes? 0:24:16.160 --> 0:24:19.080 I think absolutely. If you get to the FC Championship 0:24:19.080 --> 0:24:21.399 game or you get to the Super Bowl and you lose, 0:24:22.359 --> 0:24:27.200 you know that feeling of missing that opportunity and being 0:24:27.200 --> 0:24:30.800 able to hoist that trophy again is definitely probably more. 0:24:31.920 --> 0:24:34.400 You feel a little bit more than winning it afterwards 0:24:34.400 --> 0:24:36.680 for sure. Okay, so let's roll into it then. I mean, 0:24:36.760 --> 0:24:39.359 you're just gonna go. You lost, you lost it. You 0:24:39.400 --> 0:24:43.280 were eighteen to l you had it wouldn't have been 0:24:43.320 --> 0:24:46.920 better to lose a game that year? Were you guys 0:24:47.000 --> 0:24:49.639 grinding too hard at that point? And did it just 0:24:49.720 --> 0:24:53.400 come to a head. I wish we lost if we're 0:24:53.400 --> 0:24:57.040 gonna lose a game, I wish we lost one before that. Um, 0:24:57.080 --> 0:24:59.639 But that but that being set because eighteen and one, no, 0:24:59.720 --> 0:25:03.280 no super good chance? All right? But that being said, no, 0:25:03.359 --> 0:25:05.960 because it really doesn't matter at that point. There's only 0:25:06.000 --> 0:25:08.560 one game left, right The other games that you played 0:25:08.640 --> 0:25:12.800 mean nothing. So if we will go seven or sixteen 0:25:12.880 --> 0:25:14.399 or fifteen and one, and then we make it to 0:25:14.400 --> 0:25:16.800 that Super Bowl and we're you know, sixteen and two. 0:25:17.359 --> 0:25:19.840 It's still the same feeling as eighteen and one or seventeen, 0:25:19.840 --> 0:25:21.720 you know what I mean, It's still that same that 0:25:21.720 --> 0:25:26.760 that defeat and sadness of losing that game. So I 0:25:26.760 --> 0:25:29.800 don't think we are grinding too hard. I think, you know, 0:25:30.040 --> 0:25:34.360 there's just you know, just ran out at the end 0:25:34.680 --> 0:25:37.360 and you just can't can't put one more together. And 0:25:37.359 --> 0:25:41.119 then that's a shame too, because you know, losing that 0:25:41.160 --> 0:25:45.280 game still is tough, you mentioned, you know, think just 0:25:45.440 --> 0:25:47.399 thinking about it, and I think the other day I 0:25:47.440 --> 0:25:49.000 happen to watch and it's going to come out in 0:25:49.000 --> 0:25:52.080 the next week or so, the Saban Belichick documentary. And 0:25:52.119 --> 0:25:54.000 so now Bill's on record. You know, I think people 0:25:54.000 --> 0:25:56.160 in New England it's almost it's a decent Powler sport. 0:25:56.200 --> 0:25:58.320 Should they have lost somewhere along the way? Bills on 0:25:58.359 --> 0:26:00.760 the record now and saying in that document, you know, 0:26:00.840 --> 0:26:03.040 looking back at it, he goes, I wonder if we 0:26:03.080 --> 0:26:05.159 would have been better off losing another game. That to 0:26:05.200 --> 0:26:08.200 me is kind of surprising because everything you guys were 0:26:08.200 --> 0:26:11.320 conditioned to do that year brew was great about it. 0:26:11.400 --> 0:26:13.400 Bill was great about it. It's just it's a one 0:26:13.440 --> 0:26:16.199 game season and you had sixteen one game seasons that 0:26:16.280 --> 0:26:20.600 regular season. Yea, that were it was unbelievable. You know what, Yeah, 0:26:20.640 --> 0:26:22.280 I know what he's trying I know, I think I 0:26:22.320 --> 0:26:23.800 know what he's saying. I'm not going to speak for him. 0:26:23.800 --> 0:26:27.399 I never would probably still get in trouble or get benched. 0:26:28.960 --> 0:26:30.399 I know, I know what he's trying to say, and 0:26:30.440 --> 0:26:32.720 I know what he means. Um, but I think we 0:26:32.760 --> 0:26:36.120 really had a mentally tough football team and an adventure 0:26:36.200 --> 0:26:40.199 and a veteran game that year. So yeah, I'd like 0:26:40.240 --> 0:26:43.119 to give us more credit, Like it's not about nineteen 0:26:43.200 --> 0:26:45.600 Oh we can't handle the pressure. You know, we just 0:26:45.640 --> 0:26:48.880 played really bad on the game that we couldn't play bad. 0:26:49.160 --> 0:26:51.359 But it just doesn't It just was that right, we 0:26:51.440 --> 0:26:53.760 could practice. That wasn't your best week of practice, No 0:26:53.920 --> 0:26:56.879 week wasn't there. I think that. I think I think, 0:26:57.000 --> 0:26:59.080 you know, we we went after it a lot, you know, 0:26:59.119 --> 0:27:02.639 we you know, we were gasped a little bit. I 0:27:02.680 --> 0:27:05.359 think I think, you know, guys were just thinking too much. 0:27:05.440 --> 0:27:07.840 Maybe not necessarily, Oh it's nineteen and oh, but you know, 0:27:07.920 --> 0:27:10.960 there was a lot of a lot of mental gymnastics 0:27:11.000 --> 0:27:13.159 going on on that offensive line during that game. Now 0:27:13.200 --> 0:27:14.720 we were looking for I don't think we were playing 0:27:14.760 --> 0:27:18.600 as fast as we usually did mentally and seeing things 0:27:18.640 --> 0:27:21.080 slow because you know, different checks or audibles and all 0:27:21.080 --> 0:27:23.000 that stuff. There was a lot going on, so I 0:27:23.160 --> 0:27:24.880 make an excuse it. And they had a pretty good 0:27:24.880 --> 0:27:27.000 front they did. I mean, they could get after the 0:27:27.000 --> 0:27:29.720 pastor especially when they put that you know, NASCAR package 0:27:29.760 --> 0:27:34.239 in and they're throwing tuck inside or human aura or 0:27:34.280 --> 0:27:36.479 even straighthand comes down on the three they got. They 0:27:36.560 --> 0:27:39.520 got four legitimate pass rushers that can get after the quarterback. 0:27:39.560 --> 0:27:41.560 And then they bring cross stunts every now and then. 0:27:42.680 --> 0:27:47.560 You know, we just, yeah, the game sucked. But um, 0:27:48.240 --> 0:27:50.159 and you're sitting going I'd like to give us a 0:27:50.160 --> 0:27:53.920 little bit more credit, you know, because you know we 0:27:54.000 --> 0:27:56.920 did want to go nineteen and oz. Um. But you've 0:27:56.960 --> 0:27:59.960 also maybe alluded to the fact that you ran out again. 0:28:00.200 --> 0:28:03.639 I don't mean you personally yea of trying to go 0:28:03.760 --> 0:28:05.480 nineteen and O. I don't think it was more. I 0:28:05.480 --> 0:28:07.679 think it was physical, you know, physically. I think we 0:28:07.800 --> 0:28:09.800 ran out of gas and we're playing a little bit slow. 0:28:09.800 --> 0:28:13.119 I don't think mentally. I think mentally, you know, you 0:28:13.160 --> 0:28:15.240 know sixteen and oh versus you know, we went eleven 0:28:15.280 --> 0:28:17.000 to five or ten and six. I don't think I 0:28:17.040 --> 0:28:19.800 ever went ninety seven. But some of those ten and 0:28:19.880 --> 0:28:23.760 six seasons are easier than that sixteen. And because Bill 0:28:23.760 --> 0:28:27.320 coached hard that year. I mean it was we're winning 0:28:27.400 --> 0:28:30.480 fifty five to ten or fifty seven to three or whatever. 0:28:30.880 --> 0:28:33.119 Randy Moss is going for four or five touchdowns against 0:28:33.119 --> 0:28:35.720 Buffalo in the first half, and we're blowing teams out. 0:28:36.400 --> 0:28:40.000 But we came in on Monday and sure enough, Bill, 0:28:40.200 --> 0:28:43.000 Bill found a lot of plays. You know, we were 0:28:43.040 --> 0:28:46.080 striving for perfection that year. I mean, never you know, 0:28:46.120 --> 0:28:49.440 you can't attain it. And Bill was Bill coached hard 0:28:49.480 --> 0:28:51.520 that year. Already knew what type of team you had. 0:28:51.640 --> 0:28:54.040 You know we could handle it. It's just, you know, 0:28:54.080 --> 0:28:57.600 I think physically we ran out and mentally we were 0:28:57.680 --> 0:29:01.000 just there's a lot going on in people's heads. You know. 0:29:01.120 --> 0:29:02.840 You know, Dan, well, if I go back to the 0:29:02.840 --> 0:29:05.760 oh one season before you were here, the Patriots played 0:29:05.800 --> 0:29:08.920 the Rams during that regular season and lost, and but 0:29:08.960 --> 0:29:11.160 they can emerge from that game saying if that's the 0:29:11.200 --> 0:29:13.800 best team in the league. We can compete, we could 0:29:13.800 --> 0:29:16.560 have won. Do you think the Giants did the same 0:29:16.600 --> 0:29:19.920 thing after the thirty eight to thirty five season finale, Yeah, 0:29:20.040 --> 0:29:22.120 no doubt. And and then they had a good team, 0:29:22.200 --> 0:29:24.360 you know, and they say, you know, it's kind of 0:29:24.400 --> 0:29:27.640 like a few other few other within the past few years. 0:29:27.800 --> 0:29:31.160 That team one got confidence against us because they went 0:29:31.200 --> 0:29:34.920 toe to tell with us um and then and then 0:29:35.000 --> 0:29:37.920 the game meant nothing for both teams too. By the 0:29:37.960 --> 0:29:41.880 way we had cleared the best was that was probably 0:29:42.080 --> 0:29:45.400 the best final game of a regular season, you know, 0:29:46.440 --> 0:29:49.440 because now you guys rest right, you know, we had 0:29:49.480 --> 0:29:51.520 nothing to play for. We had first seed, like locked 0:29:51.600 --> 0:29:53.800 up first round. By they were already in the playoffs. 0:29:53.840 --> 0:29:56.760 I believe it is a wild card. So usually teams 0:29:56.800 --> 0:30:00.600 just rest. That was no, that was one on ones 0:30:00.640 --> 0:30:02.320 and we're getting after it. So that was a really 0:30:02.320 --> 0:30:04.320 cool last game. And that tells you about the two 0:30:04.320 --> 0:30:07.200 guys who are the coaches there, and you know what, 0:30:07.280 --> 0:30:10.000 we're not going to do this. Let's let's go. Let's compete, 0:30:10.040 --> 0:30:13.480 because that's that's an essence, that's what this is about. Competing. Yep. 0:30:13.560 --> 0:30:16.520 And I think it did give them confidence that uh, 0:30:16.680 --> 0:30:19.280 no doubt. And plus they got hot. They got hot 0:30:19.320 --> 0:30:22.160 at the right time. They're playing really good football and 0:30:22.440 --> 0:30:24.280 you know they made more plays in that game than 0:30:24.320 --> 0:30:26.160 we did. That's the bottom line. I'm gonna put you 0:30:26.200 --> 0:30:27.840 on the spot. Second year in the league, you guys 0:30:27.880 --> 0:30:31.080 go fourteen and too, Corey Dillon's sixteen hundred yards, you 0:30:31.120 --> 0:30:33.920 win back to back Super Bowl championships. I think there's 0:30:33.920 --> 0:30:35.680 a lot of people in New England area that think 0:30:35.880 --> 0:30:38.760 that's the best Patriot team of this era two thousand 0:30:38.760 --> 0:30:41.000 and seven. We all know what happened eighteen and one. 0:30:41.080 --> 0:30:44.320 What's the best? What's the best team that you played on? Oh? 0:30:44.360 --> 0:30:47.560 There are different teams about I mean the best one probably, 0:30:47.600 --> 0:30:50.840 I mean, oh four, yeah, probably, because you gotta win 0:30:50.880 --> 0:30:52.680 it in order to got the conversation. You gotta be. 0:30:52.760 --> 0:30:54.200 You gotta win it to be the best. I mean, 0:30:54.240 --> 0:30:56.120 we go nineteen to nine and you're probably you know, 0:30:56.160 --> 0:30:58.800 throwing us against the eighty five Bears, right, you know? 0:30:58.920 --> 0:31:01.000 Now it's I don't you know? And you look at 0:31:01.040 --> 0:31:04.320 those lists of teams, how far down are the seven 0:31:04.560 --> 0:31:06.640 o seven team was in the top ten and they 0:31:06.720 --> 0:31:08.840 just released at like the last two or three weeks, 0:31:08.840 --> 0:31:10.440 which I was sort of here. Yeah. I think he 0:31:10.480 --> 0:31:12.400 might have been as high as eight or seven. Yeah, 0:31:12.440 --> 0:31:14.720 I mean that that team was stacked too. I mean 0:31:14.760 --> 0:31:16.640 we just did it a different way, right, you know 0:31:16.800 --> 0:31:18.640 we were opened up, we were spread, we were no 0:31:18.960 --> 0:31:22.000 you know, uh empty a lot that year. You had 0:31:22.000 --> 0:31:26.480 Welker coming in and Moss and uh Stalworth, Um Gaffney 0:31:26.680 --> 0:31:29.280 thinking yeah, yeah, yeah, Daffney. I mean he caught caught 0:31:29.280 --> 0:31:35.320 the Ballimore Yeah, right, that was a comeback and team alright, 0:31:35.720 --> 0:31:38.200 just can't stop being stupid. You know, I hear, I 0:31:38.280 --> 0:31:40.520 hear in your voice a little bit, Um, Dan, you 0:31:40.560 --> 0:31:43.000 know the frustration maybe as you as we're making you, 0:31:43.040 --> 0:31:45.800 we live this a little bit. But I'll ask you this, Um, 0:31:45.840 --> 0:31:48.440 with the perspective of time. The old phrase, is it 0:31:48.520 --> 0:31:51.480 better to have loved and lost when you look back 0:31:51.520 --> 0:31:53.880 at it and you've had a little time. You know, Hey, 0:31:54.000 --> 0:31:56.240 I'm glad we went for it. I'm glad we tried 0:31:56.280 --> 0:31:57.960 to go nineteen and ozer and you know what, we 0:31:58.000 --> 0:31:59.560 gave it our best shot. We just ran out of 0:31:59.560 --> 0:32:01.440 gas at the or We got beat by a team 0:32:01.480 --> 0:32:04.240 that beat us and played better than pay. You can 0:32:04.400 --> 0:32:07.640 honestly say, you know it hurts and you're angry, but 0:32:07.760 --> 0:32:10.080 they played better. So I mean it's not like it 0:32:11.040 --> 0:32:15.480 was side. Maybe we play him ten times, maybe we 0:32:15.600 --> 0:32:17.600 beat him nine, right, you know, but that day was 0:32:17.640 --> 0:32:20.800 the one. So um, you know there's nothing to you know, 0:32:20.840 --> 0:32:23.520 put your head down about and you get angry, but 0:32:23.640 --> 0:32:26.840 you still you still made it there. And early on 0:32:26.920 --> 0:32:28.719 probably like, God, no, I don't even want to get there. 0:32:28.800 --> 0:32:31.480 Let's just lose in the AFC Championship game and we 0:32:31.520 --> 0:32:33.800 don't have to, you know, suffer the loss of a 0:32:33.840 --> 0:32:36.360 Super Bowl. But screw that. You want to get there. 0:32:36.400 --> 0:32:38.240 You want to have the opportunity, the chance to play 0:32:38.240 --> 0:32:41.680 in that game and to win that game. Um, if 0:32:41.680 --> 0:32:43.400 you don't, if you don't win the championship game, you're 0:32:43.400 --> 0:32:45.160 not gonna have that opportunity. So you definitely want to 0:32:45.200 --> 0:32:48.520 get there. I got a question about oh four um 0:32:48.640 --> 0:32:51.560 in that Super Bowl. I remember after the game at 0:32:51.600 --> 0:32:53.680 the post game party, I was talking to Eric Mangini 0:32:54.400 --> 0:33:01.000 and he was like, just relieved that Brian Kinchen executed 0:33:01.000 --> 0:33:04.320 the final snap. Yeah, Now, I had no idea that 0:33:04.640 --> 0:33:07.960 during that week he was a bit of a mess. Yeah, 0:33:08.000 --> 0:33:11.160 what did you guys? Know? What was that? Like? You 0:33:11.240 --> 0:33:13.880 know what I don't even because Paxson got hurt that year, 0:33:14.640 --> 0:33:18.920 and I think McDermott was the second guy who got you. Yeah, 0:33:18.960 --> 0:33:20.760 I want to say he got a cut or something, 0:33:20.840 --> 0:33:23.400 didn't cut his hand or something like that, and that 0:33:23.560 --> 0:33:26.040 was why, like the snaps were sort of like fifty 0:33:26.160 --> 0:33:27.840 or you know, fifty fifty. I don't know what's going 0:33:27.880 --> 0:33:29.840 to happen here, So I think he had a cut 0:33:29.920 --> 0:33:34.960 or something or stitches, um, which made it. But yeah, 0:33:34.880 --> 0:33:36.760 when comes down to like a field goal, you just 0:33:37.240 --> 0:33:39.720 one more time, buddy, just just make one more play. 0:33:39.720 --> 0:33:41.880 And you got to you gotta hold up the block 0:33:41.920 --> 0:33:44.920 and keep him out, and Adam's gonna make that kick, 0:33:45.000 --> 0:33:47.920 which you know complete confidence he would. You had some 0:33:47.960 --> 0:33:50.320 injury problems towards the end of your Patriot's career and 0:33:50.320 --> 0:33:52.920 then you had a chance. Um, not your choice, but 0:33:53.160 --> 0:33:54.960 maybe at the end it was your choice, and you 0:33:55.000 --> 0:33:57.160 went to Denver and you had that one kind of 0:33:57.200 --> 0:34:00.240 magical year a little bit in Denver where Peyton was there. 0:34:00.280 --> 0:34:01.920 Not many people can sit there and say, yeah, I 0:34:01.920 --> 0:34:05.480 snapped for Tom Brady, I snapped for Peyton Manning. If 0:34:05.480 --> 0:34:07.320 they're not the two best quarterbacks in the history of 0:34:07.360 --> 0:34:10.239 the NFL, It's a pretty good debate about it. How 0:34:10.360 --> 0:34:13.479 fun or different maybe was that for you after playing 0:34:13.560 --> 0:34:16.640 so long here too? That was fun, I really did. 0:34:16.680 --> 0:34:19.239 I had a good time in Denver, especially that first year. 0:34:19.320 --> 0:34:21.279 The second year I blew my knee out in training camp, 0:34:21.360 --> 0:34:24.080 but I was looking forward to playing up there again. 0:34:24.440 --> 0:34:29.520 You know, the the area is beautiful, the stadium's beautiful, 0:34:30.120 --> 0:34:32.239 The fans are really cool to play for. They get 0:34:32.239 --> 0:34:35.399 into it, you know, and the guys on the team 0:34:35.400 --> 0:34:36.840 were really good. We had we had, we had a 0:34:36.840 --> 0:34:39.319 good group. We won a lot of football games that year. 0:34:39.360 --> 0:34:41.799 And like you said, we had Peyton, which was kind 0:34:41.800 --> 0:34:45.160 of cool to play with him and get to know him. 0:34:45.200 --> 0:34:47.720 I knew him for years before that, but you know, really, 0:34:47.880 --> 0:34:49.600 you know, spend some time with him, which was kind 0:34:49.600 --> 0:34:53.080 of cool. And you realize again why Tom Brady's Tom 0:34:53.120 --> 0:34:56.239 Brady and why Peyton Manning was Peyton Manning Because the 0:34:56.360 --> 0:34:58.399 work that they put in and what they expect out 0:34:58.400 --> 0:35:00.800 of the guys and how smart they are that football field. 0:35:00.880 --> 0:35:04.680 So what would you say the differences are? Uh, personality, 0:35:04.800 --> 0:35:09.560 It really is personality, you know. You know, Peyton's very 0:35:09.600 --> 0:35:12.920 serious a lot of things, even though he's a great 0:35:12.960 --> 0:35:17.360 storyteller and really a funny guy. Great yeah, good actor, 0:35:17.400 --> 0:35:21.160 good on those nationwide commercials, um, and funny as hell. Um. 0:35:22.280 --> 0:35:27.239 But he's really serious and it is about football. I 0:35:27.280 --> 0:35:29.440 mean that's what this guy grew up with with his 0:35:29.600 --> 0:35:31.800 dad and and now him and you know his brother 0:35:31.880 --> 0:35:34.200 and you know, I got another one coming up or 0:35:34.239 --> 0:35:37.440 something like that pretty soon. It's just he is football 0:35:37.480 --> 0:35:40.839 and just doesn't take that hat off very often. And 0:35:40.840 --> 0:35:44.000 and uh, he expects a lot, but he would rather 0:35:44.080 --> 0:35:49.840 have things very simple because he needed to know. Everybody 0:35:50.200 --> 0:35:52.480 needed like they knew what they were doing, and he 0:35:52.520 --> 0:35:54.759 needed to do that. He know that he needed that 0:35:54.800 --> 0:35:58.239 reassurance and trust um that those guys knew exactly what 0:35:58.320 --> 0:36:01.680 he wanted them to do. Um. Tommy, Tommy has been 0:36:01.680 --> 0:36:04.440 in one system his whole career. You know, Tommy's you know, 0:36:04.480 --> 0:36:06.239 more laid back. You know, you can go out. He'll 0:36:06.239 --> 0:36:09.440 get away from football a little bit. Um, maybe I 0:36:09.600 --> 0:36:11.960 because I had more time with him for nine years. 0:36:12.040 --> 0:36:15.440 But you know Tommy, you know, we we go five wide, 0:36:15.440 --> 0:36:18.080 and you know he's he knows that offense and he 0:36:18.120 --> 0:36:20.600 knows what to do it and he's not afraid to 0:36:20.680 --> 0:36:23.000 just you know, all right, let's let's go five out 0:36:23.040 --> 0:36:26.320 instead of I. You know, it doesn't need to be perfect. 0:36:26.440 --> 0:36:28.960 We'll figure it out as we go. We're talking with 0:36:29.040 --> 0:36:30.960 Dan Copen here and Dan my last question here is 0:36:31.000 --> 0:36:32.799 I think fans would like to know. So now you're 0:36:32.800 --> 0:36:35.239 in the next phase of your life, um, the non 0:36:35.280 --> 0:36:38.640 football phase of your life. Yeah. We uh Line Cider 0:36:38.800 --> 0:36:41.719 Brewing Company. It's in East Grane, Rhode Island. You know, 0:36:41.840 --> 0:36:45.440 me and a buddy UM started thinking about it probably 0:36:45.440 --> 0:36:48.200 about three years ago and we've been open for a 0:36:48.320 --> 0:36:50.560 year now, basically a Black Friday. We just had our 0:36:50.640 --> 0:36:54.360 year anniversary. So uh, you did a couple other things 0:36:54.400 --> 0:36:57.360 beforehand and just really wasn't finding it. But you know, 0:36:57.440 --> 0:36:59.879 thirty four, thirty five there, six years old, you're two young, 0:37:00.040 --> 0:37:01.960 retire you got to find something to do every day 0:37:01.960 --> 0:37:05.239 and start home ruin and there was like found you know, 0:37:05.760 --> 0:37:07.880 buddies with this guy. He wanted to change and we 0:37:08.000 --> 0:37:10.040 just decided today let's just take it up a notch 0:37:10.080 --> 0:37:12.080 and try and open up a brewery. And you know, 0:37:12.160 --> 0:37:14.880 thankfully for the year last year, you know, we've been 0:37:14.920 --> 0:37:17.759 able to do that and it's been fun and new 0:37:17.800 --> 0:37:21.279 and challenging. UM, and we're learning every day. So my 0:37:21.400 --> 0:37:25.560 last question, is your beer better than Matt Light's vodka? 0:37:26.320 --> 0:37:28.120 I would like to think so. And I hope he 0:37:28.160 --> 0:37:30.920 comes in here and you ask him that question, and 0:37:30.960 --> 0:37:33.120 I hope he says keel. But the line sider beer 0:37:33.160 --> 0:37:35.080 is pretty good. We're you know, we figured out a 0:37:35.080 --> 0:37:37.240 lot of things from going we you know, we started 0:37:37.280 --> 0:37:40.760 with five gallon batches at home and now we're brewing 0:37:40.880 --> 0:37:43.400 three hundred gallon batches or one hundred and ten in 0:37:43.480 --> 0:37:46.080 our you know, our smaller firm enter. So there's a 0:37:46.120 --> 0:37:49.920 little bit of a learning curve there, um, But for 0:37:49.960 --> 0:37:51.920 a year in I think, you know, we're just going 0:37:51.960 --> 0:37:54.000 to get better as we go. So it's it's exciting. 0:37:54.200 --> 0:37:56.040 We all need something to get out of bed and 0:37:56.120 --> 0:37:58.560 be passionate about. You Certainly we were passionate about playing 0:37:58.560 --> 0:38:00.520 in the National Football League. When you get up today, 0:38:00.520 --> 0:38:04.360 you're passionate about the brewery and all that beer industry. Brewery, 0:38:04.520 --> 0:38:06.440 you know, and you know, we got I got three kids, 0:38:06.560 --> 0:38:09.320 they're ten, eight and six. You know, my wife owns 0:38:09.320 --> 0:38:12.320 a gym as well, so you know, when they're at school, 0:38:12.320 --> 0:38:15.800 we're working. But then when you know they've got hockey practice, 0:38:15.960 --> 0:38:19.000 my boy plays hockey, and boy, that schedule is not fun. 0:38:19.120 --> 0:38:23.600 There's I wish it was six I really at six am. 0:38:23.640 --> 0:38:26.200 If they're not bad, I would I would go to six, 0:38:26.239 --> 0:38:28.960 I'd go to four thirty. It's the traveling that these 0:38:29.040 --> 0:38:31.719 kids gotta do, gotta do. We're going two and a 0:38:31.719 --> 0:38:34.320 half hours the New Hampshire for a game on Saturday. 0:38:34.440 --> 0:38:39.840 That's you know, two three hours the main for easy. Yeah, 0:38:39.880 --> 0:38:42.520 it's a great it's fun. I really enjoy watching it 0:38:42.560 --> 0:38:47.800 and play watching him play, but the travel is not 0:38:48.120 --> 0:38:51.719 Does he like it? That's the most important thing for Yeah, 0:38:51.760 --> 0:38:54.719 for ten year old, he does not complain. For as 0:38:54.840 --> 0:38:57.200 much time as he's on the ice and practice three 0:38:57.239 --> 0:39:00.239 days a week and four games on the weekend, he 0:39:00.400 --> 0:39:03.080 is not complained one time. That's great. If he's not 0:39:03.080 --> 0:39:04.799 going to complain, I'm not going to complain and he 0:39:04.800 --> 0:39:08.359 can play whatever it was and it goes fast. Our 0:39:08.400 --> 0:39:11.719 guest is Dan Copenkats from the Past Podcast. Dan, Thanks 0:39:11.719 --> 0:39:14.799 for stopping by, thanks for being here, thank you, thanks 0:39:14.880 --> 0:39:18.160 for having me. Thank you for downloading this podcast. Subscribe 0:39:18.160 --> 0:39:21.200 on Apple, google Play, and everywhere else you listen. Like 0:39:21.360 --> 0:39:24.480 the show, Please rate and review us listener comments and 0:39:24.600 --> 0:39:27.319 ratings help keep us high in the podcast rankings, so 0:39:27.440 --> 0:39:30.680 new listeners can find us. Be sure to checkpatriots dot 0:39:30.680 --> 0:39:33.520 com for more news and more podcasts.