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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio studios, podcasts, radio news. The EU's top tech regulator,

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Speaker 1: Margreite Vesteier, says that AI could be as disruptive as

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Speaker 1: the atomic bomb. Big tech and AI regulation are at

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Speaker 1: the top of the agenda today as EU officials gather

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Speaker 1: in Washington with leaders in government and technology. I'm pleased

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Speaker 1: to say that joining us now is margarethe Vestier. She

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Speaker 1: is Executive Vice President of the European Commission. Joining me

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Speaker 1: too is Bloomberg's own Henri Hordern and margarethe great to

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Speaker 1: have you with us.

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Speaker 2: Let's start, of course, thank you very much for having me.

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Speaker 1: Really looking forward to this conversation. I want to talk

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Speaker 1: about the EU it said three months ago that it

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Speaker 1: was going to investigate the relationship between Microsoft and Open AI.

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Speaker 1: Are you able to share any findings of that probe

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Speaker 1: so far?

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Speaker 2: Well, not so far.

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Speaker 3: We're also comparing note with other authorities, because obviously it's

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Speaker 3: top of mind for us to make sure that the

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Speaker 3: market stays. When everything gets fueled by artificial intelligence, it's

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Speaker 3: going to change the marketplace.

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Speaker 4: Do you have a timeline at all, Commissioner, when we

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Speaker 4: could potentially see some movement on this.

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Speaker 2: No, we don't have a fixed timeline.

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Speaker 3: Of course, we want to produce results as fast as

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Speaker 3: possible also for the involved companies for their benefit. We'll

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Speaker 3: be getting there soon, I think.

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Speaker 1: So we're talking about Microsoft and open Ai, but of

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Speaker 1: course they're not the only players. To hear, you have

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Speaker 1: Amazon actually with a big almost three billion dollar investment

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Speaker 1: into Anthropic, which of course competes with open Ai. What

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Speaker 1: do you make of that? Is that something that you're

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Speaker 1: looking at as well?

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Speaker 3: Well, we will be having, you know, a vigilant, keen

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Speaker 3: attention to what is happening in this field. We see

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Speaker 3: a lot of entrenched market power when it comes to technology,

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Speaker 3: and it's really important that now when we have technology

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Speaker 3: which is not just a new technology, it's it's basically

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Speaker 3: a new world that we're looking into, that we make

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Speaker 3: sure that it's a competitive new world.

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Speaker 4: You just recently under the DMA went after three big

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Speaker 4: US tech companies, and to be honest, Commissioner, three is

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Speaker 4: a crowd. I'm really curious to know which of these

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Speaker 4: you are honing in on. And because a lot of

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Speaker 4: people really seem to think it's Apple, where the EU

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Speaker 4: has a lot of problems with.

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Speaker 3: Well, what's the point of the Digital Markets Act is

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Speaker 3: to open the market to make sure that more businesses

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Speaker 3: can get to their customers, so customers have more choice.

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Speaker 3: So obviously we are looking at getting at of self

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Speaker 3: preferencing so that you do not if your for instance,

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Speaker 3: have a Google search and you do not just get

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Speaker 3: a Google product. And we're looking at how businesses can

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Speaker 3: get a real relationship with their customers, so to get

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Speaker 3: rid of the answer staring that we see quite a

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Speaker 3: lot and people have choice if they want to stay

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Speaker 3: in the Apple payment environment or they want to have

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Speaker 3: a direct and sometimes cheaper relationship with their service provider.

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Speaker 1: Well, among those three Apple, Google, and Meta, do you

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Speaker 1: have a priority target.

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Speaker 3: Well, we have opened these five cases because we think

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Speaker 3: these are very important. We may have more cases in

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Speaker 3: the pipeline, so we have given retaining orders for what

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Speaker 3: may be evidence once we're moving forward. These five cases,

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Speaker 3: they are all priority. We think that they are absolutely

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Speaker 3: key if our suspicions are confirmed that we get compliance

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Speaker 3: because this is what opens the market, and that's the

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Speaker 3: basic idea of the Digital Markets Act for many more

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Speaker 3: businesses to have a fair chance to get to their customers.

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Speaker 4: Chrisure, there's currently a lot of bipartisan support in Washington,

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Speaker 4: Torain in big tech. It's one of these rare policies

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Speaker 4: where you have the likes of Elizabeth Warren and JD.

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Speaker 4: Vance lining up behind the same issue. Do you think potentially,

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Speaker 4: given this bipartisanship we see in this space, and given

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Speaker 4: the fact that we also see the FTC going after

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Speaker 4: these companies as well, that the US may do the

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Speaker 4: work for you and assuage the Commission's concerns.

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Speaker 3: Well, I don't think so. Everybody will have to do

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Speaker 3: their own job. But I really appreciate when things that

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Speaker 3: are moving forward here because you know, we are so

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Speaker 3: much stronger when we are a bigger community. So if

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Speaker 3: the US would join in four also with a legislative background,

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Speaker 3: I think that would be great. That would be an

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Speaker 3: even faster way to make sure that the digital market

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Speaker 3: service consumer as well.

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Speaker 2: Well.

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Speaker 1: Following up on that point, how are you thinking about

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Speaker 1: the US as a partner in some of these efforts.

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Speaker 1: What degree of coordination of talking is there between the

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Speaker 1: two sides, of course, as you go after big tech

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Speaker 1: and AI.

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Speaker 3: Well, actually, I think the relationship today is better than

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Speaker 3: it has been for decades. Within the framework of the

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Speaker 3: Trade and Technology Council. You know, we agreed very early

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Speaker 3: on on the approach to artificial intelligence to be risk based.

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Speaker 3: We just very recently decided to see can we set

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Speaker 3: common standards for instance, what is actually red teeming? What

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Speaker 3: do you have to do in order to tick that box?

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Speaker 3: What is watermarking? How can you tick that box that

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Speaker 3: we as consumers can see, what is the fake?

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Speaker 2: What is a deep thake?

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Speaker 3: So the relationship is very close, it's very good, and

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Speaker 3: I think that that increases the chances that we can

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Speaker 3: actually have an open, competitive market that promotes innovation. Also,

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Speaker 3: when it comes to these services.

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Speaker 4: There's one US company that the EU has yet to

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Speaker 4: go after that many are waiting that potentially could be

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Speaker 4: the next one, and that's Navidia. Do you plan to

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Speaker 4: open a formal probe into this company?

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Speaker 3: Well, even if we did, you know, I would not

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Speaker 3: share that with you.

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Speaker 2: That is kind of the things that we can You.

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Speaker 4: Concerned about their chick market dominance at all?

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Speaker 2: Well, I would not comment on that.

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Speaker 4: Okay, all right, Well, I guess that potentially means this

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Speaker 4: is one of those ways to be scenes.

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Speaker 2: I would love to also get here.

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Speaker 4: I'm kind of taking that as potentially that's a yes,

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Speaker 4: but if you don't want to comment, we'll leave it there.

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Speaker 4: Katie and I would also like to get your thoughts

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Speaker 4: on what is going on with China, because this week

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Speaker 4: you also opened up a probe into the China wind markets.

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Speaker 4: We have seen for years China dump solar technology onto

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Speaker 4: the European market. What have you learned from the past

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Speaker 4: when it came to solar that now you're looking into

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Speaker 4: when it comes to.

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Speaker 3: Win Well, we recognize what we see as a Chinese

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Speaker 3: playbook inviting European companies to joint ventures transferring technology, heavy

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Speaker 3: Chinese subsidies in the Chinese market to build capacity, closing

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Speaker 3: off their own markets towards foreign businesses, and then to

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Speaker 3: start exports at prices which are basically not for anyone

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Speaker 3: to compete with. And the result in the solar market

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Speaker 3: is that by now only three percent of installed capacity

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Speaker 3: when it comes to solar is actually produced in Europe.

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Speaker 3: And knowing that you have been played, of course, teaches

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Speaker 3: you that you need to watch watch out, to be

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Speaker 3: much more observant and take better actions. So we are

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Speaker 3: using both our trade tools and our tools that comes

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Speaker 3: with a foreign subsidies regulation in full in order to

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Speaker 3: restore fair competition.

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Speaker 4: Where does this leave evs then, because this is something

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Speaker 4: that the Biden administration is keenly focused on, and they

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Speaker 4: continue to talk about the fact that there might be

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Speaker 4: more tariffs on Chinese evs coming into the United States.

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Speaker 4: Where are we with the EU probe on Chinese electric vehicles.

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Speaker 3: It's my colleagues Vandi Zambrovski who's leading that probe. From

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Speaker 3: a trade perspective, it's a pro or case for them, obviously,

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Speaker 3: because Europe is one of the big open markets when

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Speaker 3: it comes to evs and the Chinese market share in

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Speaker 3: Europe is increasing quite dramatically, so this is absolutely top priority,

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Speaker 3: but they do not have the final results yet.

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Speaker 1: I do want to move from China to Russia because

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Speaker 1: certain EU nations they're continuing to import quantities of Russian

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Speaker 1: LNG and the Commission you had previously had concerns that

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Speaker 1: Gazprom had artificially restricted supplies to really inflate prices. Can

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Speaker 1: you share what the status of that investigation is.

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Speaker 3: Well, that has been a bit quiet for quite some

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Speaker 3: time because of the war, because things are really politically

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Speaker 3: steered by now. Of course we see the inputs but

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Speaker 3: I think what is much more important is that now

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Speaker 3: you've had a full diversification in Europe when it comes

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Speaker 3: to gas imports, both pipeline and LNG by now by

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Speaker 3: so much more LNG from American producers. And obviously very

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Speaker 3: thankful for that supply coming into Europe because that strengthens

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Speaker 3: our independence and it cuts the dependency that we used

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Speaker 3: to have on Russian supply commission.

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Speaker 4: It's not lost on me that you're talking about thanking

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Speaker 4: the US. You're sitting in Washington, DC, yet the Biden

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Speaker 4: administration is having a pause now on LNG permit. How

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Speaker 4: concerning is that to Europe's national security given the fact

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Speaker 4: that Europe has pretty much replaced Russia for your LNG.

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Speaker 3: Imports, well, as far as we know the consequences of

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Speaker 3: that decision, it doesn't affect the imports that are happening

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Speaker 3: and the contracts that has been signed.

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Speaker 2: So we think that.

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Speaker 3: We're good also because here we do not only rely

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Speaker 3: on the US. We have many more both from Norway

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Speaker 3: to some more Middle Eastern suppliers and African suppliers. And

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Speaker 3: this because diversification.

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Speaker 2: I think that the.

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Speaker 3: New black everyone wants to know that if something happens

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Speaker 3: somewhere that you're still safe to give your supply from

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Speaker 3: other sources.

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Speaker 4: I just want to also end with this potential of

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Speaker 4: the US election. I know something you're not going to

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Speaker 4: want to comment on at length, but the former president

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Speaker 4: Donald Trump is the front runner, is the nominee, and

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Speaker 4: potentially this time next year, we will have a Trump

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Speaker 4: as a president next time you come visit the United States.

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Speaker 4: Potentially he once said that he quotes that you quote

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Speaker 4: hate the United States and that you're perhaps quote worse

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Speaker 4: than any person he's ever met. How do you plan

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Speaker 4: to work with a Trump two point zero administration?

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Speaker 3: Well, actually I have never met Donald Trump, so I

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Speaker 3: don't know how he built this assessment. And I think

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Speaker 3: I have proven, beyond reasonable debts in the workings within

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Speaker 3: the Trend Technology Council and with colleagues on the competition

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Speaker 3: side of things, that I have a very very strong,

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Speaker 3: if not love then like of the United States.

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Speaker 1: All Right, Margareth, I think that's a good place to

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Speaker 1: end it. Really appreciate your time today. That of course

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Speaker 1: is Marguerite Vesteier. She is Executive Vice President of the

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Speaker 1: European Commission, and of course our thanks to our own

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg's Emory Hordern