Speaker 1: So there's been a lot of talk about the geopolitical
Speaker 1: implications of the protests in Iran, but there has been
Speaker 1: little heard from protesters themselves. That is not merely a
Speaker 1: failing of the media. Part of the reason is that
Speaker 1: the government there shut has shut down the Internet for
Speaker 1: an extended period of time, which is blocking people from
Speaker 1: reaching loved ones or reaching Western or any other media
Speaker 1: outside of Iran, and it's blocking people from inside journalists
Speaker 1: who are inside Iran from getting images out. There's also
Speaker 1: the phenomenon that we know of transnational repression that even
Speaker 1: if you are able to get in touch with one
Speaker 1: of your family members who is in Iran, if you
Speaker 1: speak publicly and they find out who you are there,
Speaker 1: you know there's a significant risk for the family back
Speaker 1: at home. So joining us today will be a person
Speaker 1: who has been involved in protests for several decades at
Speaker 1: this point inside Iran, and was there at the height
Speaker 1: of the demonstrations, has since left. We're not going to
Speaker 1: talk about where she has left to her where she
Speaker 1: came from for her in order to conceal her identity,
Speaker 1: but we're grateful that she's joined us today. Thank you
Speaker 1: so much for being here.
Speaker 2: Thank you for having me, and so can.
Speaker 1: You can you tell us a little bit about well,
Speaker 1: actually tell us the first protest that or how did
Speaker 1: you realize that this protest movement which started shortly after
Speaker 1: Christmas was something serious and when did you first start
Speaker 1: participating in it.
Speaker 3: I I went home to visit family. I had no
Speaker 3: idea that there was unrest until Thursday night, eight of
Speaker 3: January and we were sitting around.
Speaker 1: You had been there for weeks at that point.
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, but there.
Speaker 3: I didn't notice anything, and we would hear about things
Speaker 3: happening outside of Tehran, but not in Tehran. I didn't
Speaker 3: notice anything, and that's not surprising because I wasn't near
Speaker 3: anywhere near center of town or places that people would gather.
Speaker 3: But on Thursday night, around eight pm, we started.
Speaker 2: We were yes January eighth.
Speaker 3: We were sitting around, just drinking, socializing with a few
Speaker 3: of my friends, and we started hearing chanting outside. So
Speaker 3: we went out to check out what was happening, and
Speaker 3: we realized that people were getting together and the chants
Speaker 3: were getting louder and louder, so we decided to go
Speaker 3: out and check it out. It's cold in Iran at
Speaker 3: night right now, so it took like a few minutes
Speaker 3: to get our codes get ready, and we were in
Speaker 3: the streets on Thursday night a little before eight thirty pm.
Speaker 1: And so what did you see when you were out there?
Speaker 3: There were just like groups of people. We walked for
Speaker 3: a long time. So by the end of the night
Speaker 3: we were miles away from where we started, and it
Speaker 3: was there were people everywhere everywhere in Alley's main streets
Speaker 3: and they were moving.
Speaker 2: There were more.
Speaker 3: And more people joining main streets in Tehran and they
Speaker 3: were chanting, and everybody was really excited and we were
Speaker 3: all surprised. All of us were surprised to see these
Speaker 3: many people all out on the streets. People of Iran
Speaker 3: have been protesting for a long time, and at least
Speaker 3: for myself, I can say that I've always dreamt of
Speaker 3: these many people coming out supporting each other, and it happened.
Speaker 1: Yeah, how did it compare to previous demonstrations over the years.
Speaker 3: So I've never seen anything like this on any It
Speaker 3: never not in Green movement, although there was there was
Speaker 3: a silent protest after the election during the Green Movement
Speaker 3: that I wasn't. I wasn't there, but I heard that
Speaker 3: there were hundreds of thousands of people silently walking. But
Speaker 3: besides that one, I have never never heard about anything
Speaker 3: this massive, and it seemed organic and it seen and
Speaker 3: people were joining as they were hearing chance from the streets.
Speaker 3: People were coming out. I saw an old lady like
Speaker 3: with a cane, really old. I went and talked to her.
Speaker 3: I asked her to go home. I told her that
Speaker 3: I would do what she wants to do. She should
Speaker 3: tell me what I should chant, and I would do
Speaker 3: it for her. She doesn't have to be out. And
Speaker 3: she's like, no, I'll stay, I'll just walk slowly. I'll
Speaker 3: walk behind you. And that was Thursday night. Was just awesome.
Speaker 1: So there were some reports of violence that Thursday evening
Speaker 1: or somewhere around the city. Did you see anything that
Speaker 1: What was the you know, what was the balance between
Speaker 1: kind of just marching and chanting versus clashes with security services.
Speaker 3: I we did not see any clashes between security forces
Speaker 3: and the protesters, and they stayed away from us. The
Speaker 3: two times that we saw any sign of God and
Speaker 3: regime people present was tear gas behind the crowd. If
Speaker 3: they wanted to they wanted us to move, they would
Speaker 3: tear gas that area and we would just walk away
Speaker 3: from that area.
Speaker 2: That was it.
Speaker 3: There was no classes that I saw on Thursday. Thursday
Speaker 3: was pretty much people and the crowds got so big,
Speaker 3: I don't know. Besides what they did on Saturday, there
Speaker 3: was nothing they could have done. There was just so
Speaker 3: many people that the sheer number of people in the
Speaker 3: streets was unprecedented.
Speaker 1: So then Friday, January tenth, what was your experience?
Speaker 3: So Friday was the same, but with more presence from
Speaker 3: police forces, militia. We saw them, they but they wouldn't engage.
Speaker 3: There was still tear gas. But I heard from other
Speaker 3: friends across town that they saw snipers on rooftops and
Speaker 3: they saw people falling. So there was some presence on
Speaker 3: Friday night, but it was still mainly people and the
Speaker 3: only I don't know what I saw the coverage on
Speaker 3: State TV. They saw that people set fire to moss
Speaker 3: and I'm not surprised by that. When you use mosques
Speaker 3: to force people into a way of life, you shouldn't
Speaker 3: be surprised if that's the first thing they said on fire.
Speaker 3: But I heard other violent stories that I did not witness.
Speaker 3: I don't know if normal, regular people are capable of
Speaker 3: that kind of violence, but I don't know, like state
Speaker 3: governments have turned people into violent beings all the time,
Speaker 3: So but I didn't witness any of the protesters doing
Speaker 3: anything violent on Tuesday, Friday or Saturday that night.
Speaker 1: And at that point, what's communication?
Speaker 2: Like?
Speaker 1: You couldn't communicate out of the country, but within the
Speaker 1: country you could.
Speaker 3: So on Thursday night I could even text outside of
Speaker 3: Iran up to I don't know if it was eight
Speaker 3: pm or nine pm, Like between eight and nine pm,
Speaker 3: everything just stopped working. We couldn't even call each other.
Speaker 3: Internet went out. That was Thursday night calls. So the
Speaker 3: only thing that we could do it was landline to landline.
Speaker 3: Land lines could call each other.
Speaker 2: But that was it.
Speaker 3: On Thursday night, so there was really no way to
Speaker 3: organize at all.
Speaker 2: Friday night happened organically.
Speaker 1: So then Saturday people are back in the streets. What
Speaker 1: what time did you go back out on Saturday? Describe
Speaker 1: what Saturday was like.
Speaker 3: Saturday was. I don't think i'll ever forget Saturday. Saturday
Speaker 3: was brief. I think it was around I had to
Speaker 3: do something on Saturday for work, so it's a little later,
Speaker 3: I think around seven or eight. I don't think it
Speaker 3: took even an hour. But as soon as we reached.
Speaker 2: An area.
Speaker 3: That people would gather, we started hearing machine guns like
Speaker 3: not just one shot, two shots, just like shots NonStop.
Speaker 3: And then as we they we ran and uh, we
Speaker 3: heard people falling. And then I saw like two blocks
Speaker 3: away from like further away from where we were, a
Speaker 3: neighborhood just got lit up silently, just so bright that
Speaker 3: it was like it was day for like ten seconds.
Speaker 3: I don't know what they use, but it just lit
Speaker 3: up and then went quiet. There were big groups of
Speaker 3: bikers with like machine guns and machetes, just patrolling and
Speaker 3: they have uniforms. No, they were like dressed in black
Speaker 3: with face masks. And my friends asked me if they
Speaker 3: were Iranian or not, and there's no way we could have.
Speaker 3: We could have, we could have tell. It's just impossible
Speaker 3: to tell they were.
Speaker 1: They were in a large group together, like can you
Speaker 1: just describe these motorcyclists.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there was.
Speaker 3: They were always in large groups together, dressed in black,
Speaker 3: like like commandos or like movies, and.
Speaker 2: Really scary like staring.
Speaker 3: Even the day Sunday, after Saturday, I was in a
Speaker 3: car and they they were patrolling the streets after Saturday,
Speaker 3: and they came from behind. I could group of fifty
Speaker 3: of them at least, and I was so scared that
Speaker 3: I couldn't look away. And one of them was staring
Speaker 3: at me. And one of my friends held my hand
Speaker 3: and was like, look at me, don't look at them,
Speaker 3: like try to get my attention away from them.
Speaker 2: Just freakishly terrifying.
Speaker 1: And you were telling me that as you were running
Speaker 1: you you could hear the bullets and you could see
Speaker 1: people fall. How close to how close to you were
Speaker 1: the people who were going down? Like what kind of.
Speaker 2: I have no idea, right.
Speaker 3: Like I I could tell you, but I don't know
Speaker 3: how accurate it would be.
Speaker 2: It was shocking.
Speaker 1: How did you finally get away?
Speaker 2: Like? What?
Speaker 1: What was what got you to?
Speaker 3: We ran? We ran that far away, like we got
Speaker 3: lucky because we got out late and we just ran
Speaker 3: back into the alley and people open doors. But it
Speaker 3: was just like we were close enough to get.
Speaker 1: Away to the place where you were staying.
Speaker 2: Yes, I wasn't.
Speaker 3: We didn't even got that far on Saturday, and then
Speaker 3: it was quiet like silence Thursday and Friday, Like at
Speaker 3: one two am, people would still be in the streets
Speaker 3: and they were chanting from rooftops and windows, and people
Speaker 3: would bard even if they didn't leave the house. Saturday
Speaker 3: night after so like for an hour there was a
Speaker 3: lot of noise, a lot of light, a lot of commotion,
Speaker 3: and then silence just just absolute, like even I don't
Speaker 3: think Tehran has ever been this silent, and I know.
Speaker 1: We weren't even sirens or nothing, just definitely.
Speaker 3: Nothing, just silence. And I know that I try not
Speaker 3: to watch the videos still because like I don't Yeah,
Speaker 3: I can't take them right now, but I know that
Speaker 3: videos are coming out now, but most of these videos
Speaker 3: are from Thursday night, Friday, and maybe Saturday if it's
Speaker 3: super violent. There was nothing after in Tehran.
Speaker 1: So Sunday Monday, so the rest, So that was completely
Speaker 1: from your perspective, that was complete suppression.
Speaker 3: Yes, Saturday night Tehran was massacred and then it went quiet.
Speaker 1: Is is there any is there any sense or is
Speaker 1: any talk of renewing them once people have regrouped, or
Speaker 1: is your sense that this is the level of violence
Speaker 1: was significant enough that it's just completely knocked that, Like
Speaker 1: I don't totally suppressed.
Speaker 3: I don't know if I can predict that, but every
Speaker 3: time that the people. Everyone have protested, they have responded
Speaker 3: with violence, and every time the next time it's been
Speaker 3: worse for them. And I think something changed on Saturday
Speaker 3: night because they killed indiscriminately, They fired into crowds of people,
Speaker 3: and they said that they were going to do that,
Speaker 3: but I don't think people.
Speaker 2: They sent.
Speaker 3: Text messages from intelligence services to all of the people
Speaker 3: of Tehran. That was the only text that we could
Speaker 3: receive to numbers in Iran, and they warned the people
Speaker 3: don't come out, because we are going to use force
Speaker 3: if you do.
Speaker 2: And they did something changed.
Speaker 3: I know that there's a lot of discussion of who
Speaker 3: can hijack this movement, the freedom movement of the people
Speaker 3: of Iran, and it's very possible, but I can tell
Speaker 3: you this, the way that the government of Iran has
Speaker 3: responded to the protest is every single person in Iran
Speaker 3: would happily join any intelligence service to end this regime.
Speaker 3: There's that we are not unified in what we want,
Speaker 3: but we are unified and not wanting this to amic republic.
Speaker 1: What was the talk among demonstrators about what the end
Speaker 1: goal was like? What what was the step from you know,
Speaker 1: hundreds of thousands of people in the streets on Thursday
Speaker 1: to the regime being toppled.
Speaker 2: There wasn't a lot of talk. We were just like
Speaker 2: chat thing.
Speaker 3: But my sense is that nobody knows, and that's very scary.
Speaker 3: And I think the people that we all know that
Speaker 3: in chaos there's risk. They know that their livelihood is
Speaker 3: going to be affected. Dollar has, like the Iranian currency
Speaker 3: has dropped in value so much that a regular person
Speaker 3: in Tehran now makes a little less than three hundred dollars.
Speaker 3: Probably millions of families have dropped from middle class to poor.
Speaker 3: So I think they know it's going to be rough.
Speaker 3: I think they're scared of what's going to happen next.
Speaker 3: I think this government could have stopped this many many
Speaker 3: times during this forty seven years. They could have made
Speaker 3: change easier and smoother. But every time they chose to
Speaker 3: oppress their own people, to kill their own people, hang
Speaker 3: their own people, torture their own people, disappear their own people.
Speaker 3: And there was the saying after Massamini was murdered that
Speaker 3: the rage of a grieving mother will never go quiet.
Speaker 2: And there are.
Speaker 3: Thousands of grieving mothers in you're on right now, and
Speaker 3: I don't know what they're going to do with that.
Speaker 3: They might succeed this time, but something changed.
Speaker 2: Now.
Speaker 1: The videos and the photos that you shared with me
Speaker 1: that you and your friends took were those mostly from
Speaker 1: Thursday and Friday, Like, I, did you catch anything from
Speaker 1: Saturday or were you in and out so fast?
Speaker 2: No?
Speaker 3: No, they were yes, No, I had nothing on Saturday,
Speaker 3: and I meant to take a video of the bikers,
Speaker 3: but I was so scared I couldn't move. I can
Speaker 3: tell you this. They were like freakishly terrifying.
Speaker 1: They're moving around collectively, yes.
Speaker 3: And patrolling even after Saturday night they would patrol and
Speaker 3: scream and you know, just make sure that their presence
Speaker 3: is known and that they are causing terror so that
Speaker 3: people won't come out anymore.
Speaker 1: I also wanted to get your reaction to the government's
Speaker 1: response here as you saw they they they brought in
Speaker 1: a bunch of ministers from around the world and showed
Speaker 1: them footage of lost armed and masked. And people have
Speaker 1: probably seen a lot of this footage as it has
Speaker 1: d of circulated over the internet. On the internet. Here
Speaker 1: you have people, you know, the firing a shotgun and
Speaker 1: there's more of this. You know, how does this how
Speaker 1: do how do you relate that to these the dynamic
Speaker 1: that unfolded.
Speaker 3: I didn't see anybody armed in the crowd, and I
Speaker 3: didn't see any violence. I'm not surprised. It's been forty
Speaker 3: seven years. I'm not even surprised if it turns out
Speaker 3: that there are foreign agents among the crowds. Of course,
Speaker 3: I know Israel benefits from time wild in Iran. I'm
Speaker 3: not surprised if they tried to capitalize on this, if
Speaker 3: they were to hijack it. But and I'm not surprised
Speaker 3: that the government of Iran does these kind of performative
Speaker 3: sittings with ambassadors. They have done this, It's not new.
Speaker 3: And they have a certain narrative that everybody that opposes
Speaker 3: US is imperialist agent in the agents of Mossad or Cia.
Speaker 3: And I'm not denying that Mussad or Cia are not
Speaker 3: benevolent agents in the world. But I can tell you
Speaker 3: that most of the people in the streets are the
Speaker 3: people of Iran. And I'm not saying that they are
Speaker 3: beyond being manipulated. Of course they are. But any I
Speaker 3: think anyone in the situation that the people of Iran
Speaker 3: are right now economically, culturally, sanction wise, relationships with the
Speaker 3: outside world. You look at the situation in Uran from
Speaker 3: any aspect that you like, you will understand why the
Speaker 3: people of Iran would come to the street. It doesn't
Speaker 3: matter who asks them to. They want change. And I
Speaker 3: don't think these kind of having ambassadors watch videos would
Speaker 3: work anymore. Even if there are armed agents that hijack
Speaker 3: these movements, that doesn't matter. That's not the movement, because
Speaker 3: this is not This hasn't been the only uprising. We
Speaker 3: have been protesting for forty seven years. The Molaws are
Speaker 3: corrupt and cruel, and that's the truth. And I think,
Speaker 3: as somebody who's been a leftist and a progressive, I'm
Speaker 3: actually a little heartbroken that we can't say that with
Speaker 3: our full chest. Because Iran has been a presence in
Speaker 3: the Middle East, that's at least a kind of obstacle
Speaker 3: for United States and Israel. But that shouldn't mean that
Speaker 3: we deny the people of Iran what they deserve, which
Speaker 3: is freedom and a dignified life. And if Iran has
Speaker 3: been an obstacle for Israel, and Israel has been an
Speaker 3: obstacle for the Islamic Republic, all of that can be
Speaker 3: analyzed without being silent when people are being oppressed.
Speaker 1: Now when it when it comes to the American response,
Speaker 1: the Trump administration, as far as my sources are telling me,
Speaker 1: are still leaning towards air strikes despite the fact that
Speaker 1: we are where we are. Where do the demonstrator? Obviously
Speaker 1: there are a lot of different viewpoints, but like, how
Speaker 1: do you see American intervention and how to how what
Speaker 1: is your general sense of how people in the street
Speaker 1: since it, And it goes to that same question earlier,
Speaker 1: what's the step from American air strikes to the regime topling?
Speaker 1: Because from my own analysis, and I don't know. I've
Speaker 1: never been to Iran, I don't know it as well
Speaker 1: as people who live there. But I don't see how
Speaker 1: American air strikes bring about regime change. I fail to
Speaker 1: see what the connect how that connects from one to
Speaker 1: the other. So give me your take on that.
Speaker 3: I okay, I'm hesitant to just give you my own opinion.
Speaker 3: I'll tell you what I think and what I think
Speaker 3: people of your own think most of them.
Speaker 2: I am anti war.
Speaker 3: I do not like air strikes and I do not
Speaker 3: like barn interventions.
Speaker 2: They're always shortsighted in.
Speaker 3: Not motivated by what I think is needed on the ground,
Speaker 3: so I and I don't respect Donald Trump in any
Speaker 3: shape or form. So my personal opinion is I don't
Speaker 3: trust what he says. I don't trust what he does,
Speaker 3: and I don't I wouldn't if it was me, I
Speaker 3: wouldn't ask him or help. And I don't know how
Speaker 3: air strikes can lead to regime change. I have no
Speaker 3: idea either. I'm just a normal person. I've never worked
Speaker 3: in politics, but inside on the streets, I think people
Speaker 3: were as divided as the Iranian diaspora. Outside of Iran,
Speaker 3: I think there are a lot of people that are
Speaker 3: so done, they're so it's been so bad that they're
Speaker 3: like anything. If they can change, if they can attack
Speaker 3: and kill Harmony, for example, without us having to pay
Speaker 3: a lot, sure why not. And there are people that
Speaker 3: are like, absolutely not. We do not want anybody to
Speaker 3: attack us, and I don't. I'm not saying that we
Speaker 3: should take everybody's opinion and take an average. I don't
Speaker 3: believe in that kind of attitude when it comes to
Speaker 3: making these decisions. And I don't presume that I know
Speaker 3: what's best. So I'm just talking for myself. I'm just
Speaker 3: telling you what I think and I think the best
Speaker 3: thing for Iran is for we have elites in prison,
Speaker 3: we have elites outside of Iran.
Speaker 2: We can have.
Speaker 3: A group of people that would help the people, help referendums,
Speaker 3: and help pulling to move from this regime to a
Speaker 3: more democratic one if possible. Throughout forty seven years, they
Speaker 3: have tried to kill and silence everybody inside of Iran,
Speaker 3: and they have done some assassination outside of Iran as well.
Speaker 3: But I still think Iranians themselves have people that are
Speaker 3: capable of steering this country at least towards a better path.
Speaker 3: I don't think we need anyone, particularly those who are
Speaker 3: responsible for geniciding other people.
Speaker 1: Well, thank you so much for sharing your your experience.
Speaker 1: Very much appreciate you. Uh, I'm sure that was I'm
Speaker 1: sure that was. That was difficult, and it's going to
Speaker 1: live with you for forever.
Speaker 2: Thank you.