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Speaker 1: So there's been a lot of talk about the geopolitical

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Speaker 1: implications of the protests in Iran, but there has been

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Speaker 1: little heard from protesters themselves. That is not merely a

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Speaker 1: failing of the media. Part of the reason is that

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Speaker 1: the government there shut has shut down the Internet for

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Speaker 1: an extended period of time, which is blocking people from

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Speaker 1: reaching loved ones or reaching Western or any other media

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Speaker 1: outside of Iran, and it's blocking people from inside journalists

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Speaker 1: who are inside Iran from getting images out. There's also

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Speaker 1: the phenomenon that we know of transnational repression that even

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Speaker 1: if you are able to get in touch with one

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Speaker 1: of your family members who is in Iran, if you

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Speaker 1: speak publicly and they find out who you are there,

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Speaker 1: you know there's a significant risk for the family back

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Speaker 1: at home. So joining us today will be a person

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Speaker 1: who has been involved in protests for several decades at

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Speaker 1: this point inside Iran, and was there at the height

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Speaker 1: of the demonstrations, has since left. We're not going to

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Speaker 1: talk about where she has left to her where she

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Speaker 1: came from for her in order to conceal her identity,

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Speaker 1: but we're grateful that she's joined us today. Thank you

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Speaker 1: so much for being here.

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Speaker 2: Thank you for having me, and so can.

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Speaker 1: You can you tell us a little bit about well,

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Speaker 1: actually tell us the first protest that or how did

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Speaker 1: you realize that this protest movement which started shortly after

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Speaker 1: Christmas was something serious and when did you first start

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Speaker 1: participating in it.

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Speaker 3: I I went home to visit family. I had no

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Speaker 3: idea that there was unrest until Thursday night, eight of

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Speaker 3: January and we were sitting around.

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Speaker 1: You had been there for weeks at that point.

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Speaker 2: Yes, yes, but there.

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Speaker 3: I didn't notice anything, and we would hear about things

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Speaker 3: happening outside of Tehran, but not in Tehran. I didn't

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Speaker 3: notice anything, and that's not surprising because I wasn't near

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Speaker 3: anywhere near center of town or places that people would gather.

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Speaker 3: But on Thursday night, around eight pm, we started.

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Speaker 2: We were yes January eighth.

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Speaker 3: We were sitting around, just drinking, socializing with a few

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Speaker 3: of my friends, and we started hearing chanting outside. So

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Speaker 3: we went out to check out what was happening, and

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Speaker 3: we realized that people were getting together and the chants

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Speaker 3: were getting louder and louder, so we decided to go

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Speaker 3: out and check it out. It's cold in Iran at

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Speaker 3: night right now, so it took like a few minutes

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Speaker 3: to get our codes get ready, and we were in

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Speaker 3: the streets on Thursday night a little before eight thirty pm.

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Speaker 1: And so what did you see when you were out there?

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Speaker 3: There were just like groups of people. We walked for

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Speaker 3: a long time. So by the end of the night

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Speaker 3: we were miles away from where we started, and it

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Speaker 3: was there were people everywhere everywhere in Alley's main streets

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Speaker 3: and they were moving.

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Speaker 2: There were more.

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Speaker 3: And more people joining main streets in Tehran and they

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Speaker 3: were chanting, and everybody was really excited and we were

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Speaker 3: all surprised. All of us were surprised to see these

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Speaker 3: many people all out on the streets. People of Iran

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Speaker 3: have been protesting for a long time, and at least

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Speaker 3: for myself, I can say that I've always dreamt of

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Speaker 3: these many people coming out supporting each other, and it happened.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, how did it compare to previous demonstrations over the years.

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Speaker 3: So I've never seen anything like this on any It

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Speaker 3: never not in Green movement, although there was there was

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Speaker 3: a silent protest after the election during the Green Movement

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Speaker 3: that I wasn't. I wasn't there, but I heard that

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Speaker 3: there were hundreds of thousands of people silently walking. But

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Speaker 3: besides that one, I have never never heard about anything

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Speaker 3: this massive, and it seemed organic and it seen and

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Speaker 3: people were joining as they were hearing chance from the streets.

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Speaker 3: People were coming out. I saw an old lady like

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Speaker 3: with a cane, really old. I went and talked to her.

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Speaker 3: I asked her to go home. I told her that

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Speaker 3: I would do what she wants to do. She should

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Speaker 3: tell me what I should chant, and I would do

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Speaker 3: it for her. She doesn't have to be out. And

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Speaker 3: she's like, no, I'll stay, I'll just walk slowly. I'll

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Speaker 3: walk behind you. And that was Thursday night. Was just awesome.

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Speaker 1: So there were some reports of violence that Thursday evening

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Speaker 1: or somewhere around the city. Did you see anything that

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Speaker 1: What was the you know, what was the balance between

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Speaker 1: kind of just marching and chanting versus clashes with security services.

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Speaker 3: I we did not see any clashes between security forces

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Speaker 3: and the protesters, and they stayed away from us. The

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Speaker 3: two times that we saw any sign of God and

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Speaker 3: regime people present was tear gas behind the crowd. If

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Speaker 3: they wanted to they wanted us to move, they would

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Speaker 3: tear gas that area and we would just walk away

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Speaker 3: from that area.

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Speaker 2: That was it.

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Speaker 3: There was no classes that I saw on Thursday. Thursday

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Speaker 3: was pretty much people and the crowds got so big,

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Speaker 3: I don't know. Besides what they did on Saturday, there

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Speaker 3: was nothing they could have done. There was just so

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Speaker 3: many people that the sheer number of people in the

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Speaker 3: streets was unprecedented.

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Speaker 1: So then Friday, January tenth, what was your experience?

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Speaker 3: So Friday was the same, but with more presence from

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Speaker 3: police forces, militia. We saw them, they but they wouldn't engage.

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Speaker 3: There was still tear gas. But I heard from other

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Speaker 3: friends across town that they saw snipers on rooftops and

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Speaker 3: they saw people falling. So there was some presence on

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Speaker 3: Friday night, but it was still mainly people and the

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Speaker 3: only I don't know what I saw the coverage on

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Speaker 3: State TV. They saw that people set fire to moss

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Speaker 3: and I'm not surprised by that. When you use mosques

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Speaker 3: to force people into a way of life, you shouldn't

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Speaker 3: be surprised if that's the first thing they said on fire.

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Speaker 3: But I heard other violent stories that I did not witness.

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Speaker 3: I don't know if normal, regular people are capable of

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Speaker 3: that kind of violence, but I don't know, like state

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Speaker 3: governments have turned people into violent beings all the time,

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Speaker 3: So but I didn't witness any of the protesters doing

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Speaker 3: anything violent on Tuesday, Friday or Saturday that night.

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Speaker 1: And at that point, what's communication?

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Speaker 2: Like?

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Speaker 1: You couldn't communicate out of the country, but within the

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Speaker 1: country you could.

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Speaker 3: So on Thursday night I could even text outside of

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Speaker 3: Iran up to I don't know if it was eight

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Speaker 3: pm or nine pm, Like between eight and nine pm,

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Speaker 3: everything just stopped working. We couldn't even call each other.

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Speaker 3: Internet went out. That was Thursday night calls. So the

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Speaker 3: only thing that we could do it was landline to landline.

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Speaker 3: Land lines could call each other.

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Speaker 2: But that was it.

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Speaker 3: On Thursday night, so there was really no way to

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Speaker 3: organize at all.

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Speaker 2: Friday night happened organically.

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Speaker 1: So then Saturday people are back in the streets. What

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Speaker 1: what time did you go back out on Saturday? Describe

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Speaker 1: what Saturday was like.

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Speaker 3: Saturday was. I don't think i'll ever forget Saturday. Saturday

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Speaker 3: was brief. I think it was around I had to

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Speaker 3: do something on Saturday for work, so it's a little later,

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Speaker 3: I think around seven or eight. I don't think it

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Speaker 3: took even an hour. But as soon as we reached.

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Speaker 2: An area.

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Speaker 3: That people would gather, we started hearing machine guns like

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Speaker 3: not just one shot, two shots, just like shots NonStop.

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Speaker 3: And then as we they we ran and uh, we

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Speaker 3: heard people falling. And then I saw like two blocks

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Speaker 3: away from like further away from where we were, a

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Speaker 3: neighborhood just got lit up silently, just so bright that

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Speaker 3: it was like it was day for like ten seconds.

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Speaker 3: I don't know what they use, but it just lit

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Speaker 3: up and then went quiet. There were big groups of

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Speaker 3: bikers with like machine guns and machetes, just patrolling and

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Speaker 3: they have uniforms. No, they were like dressed in black

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Speaker 3: with face masks. And my friends asked me if they

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Speaker 3: were Iranian or not, and there's no way we could have.

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Speaker 3: We could have, we could have tell. It's just impossible

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Speaker 3: to tell they were.

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Speaker 1: They were in a large group together, like can you

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Speaker 1: just describe these motorcyclists.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, there was.

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Speaker 3: They were always in large groups together, dressed in black,

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Speaker 3: like like commandos or like movies, and.

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Speaker 2: Really scary like staring.

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Speaker 3: Even the day Sunday, after Saturday, I was in a

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Speaker 3: car and they they were patrolling the streets after Saturday,

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Speaker 3: and they came from behind. I could group of fifty

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Speaker 3: of them at least, and I was so scared that

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Speaker 3: I couldn't look away. And one of them was staring

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Speaker 3: at me. And one of my friends held my hand

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Speaker 3: and was like, look at me, don't look at them,

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Speaker 3: like try to get my attention away from them.

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Speaker 2: Just freakishly terrifying.

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Speaker 1: And you were telling me that as you were running

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Speaker 1: you you could hear the bullets and you could see

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Speaker 1: people fall. How close to how close to you were

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Speaker 1: the people who were going down? Like what kind of.

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Speaker 2: I have no idea, right.

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Speaker 3: Like I I could tell you, but I don't know

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Speaker 3: how accurate it would be.

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Speaker 2: It was shocking.

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Speaker 1: How did you finally get away?

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Speaker 2: Like? What?

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Speaker 1: What was what got you to?

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Speaker 3: We ran? We ran that far away, like we got

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Speaker 3: lucky because we got out late and we just ran

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Speaker 3: back into the alley and people open doors. But it

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Speaker 3: was just like we were close enough to get.

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Speaker 1: Away to the place where you were staying.

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Speaker 2: Yes, I wasn't.

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Speaker 3: We didn't even got that far on Saturday, and then

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Speaker 3: it was quiet like silence Thursday and Friday, Like at

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Speaker 3: one two am, people would still be in the streets

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Speaker 3: and they were chanting from rooftops and windows, and people

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Speaker 3: would bard even if they didn't leave the house. Saturday

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Speaker 3: night after so like for an hour there was a

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Speaker 3: lot of noise, a lot of light, a lot of commotion,

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Speaker 3: and then silence just just absolute, like even I don't

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Speaker 3: think Tehran has ever been this silent, and I know.

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Speaker 1: We weren't even sirens or nothing, just definitely.

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Speaker 3: Nothing, just silence. And I know that I try not

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Speaker 3: to watch the videos still because like I don't Yeah,

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Speaker 3: I can't take them right now, but I know that

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Speaker 3: videos are coming out now, but most of these videos

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Speaker 3: are from Thursday night, Friday, and maybe Saturday if it's

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Speaker 3: super violent. There was nothing after in Tehran.

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Speaker 1: So Sunday Monday, so the rest, So that was completely

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Speaker 1: from your perspective, that was complete suppression.

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Speaker 3: Yes, Saturday night Tehran was massacred and then it went quiet.

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Speaker 1: Is is there any is there any sense or is

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Speaker 1: any talk of renewing them once people have regrouped, or

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Speaker 1: is your sense that this is the level of violence

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Speaker 1: was significant enough that it's just completely knocked that, Like

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Speaker 1: I don't totally suppressed.

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Speaker 3: I don't know if I can predict that, but every

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Speaker 3: time that the people. Everyone have protested, they have responded

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Speaker 3: with violence, and every time the next time it's been

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Speaker 3: worse for them. And I think something changed on Saturday

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Speaker 3: night because they killed indiscriminately, They fired into crowds of people,

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Speaker 3: and they said that they were going to do that,

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Speaker 3: but I don't think people.

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Speaker 2: They sent.

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Speaker 3: Text messages from intelligence services to all of the people

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Speaker 3: of Tehran. That was the only text that we could

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Speaker 3: receive to numbers in Iran, and they warned the people

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Speaker 3: don't come out, because we are going to use force

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Speaker 3: if you do.

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Speaker 2: And they did something changed.

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Speaker 3: I know that there's a lot of discussion of who

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Speaker 3: can hijack this movement, the freedom movement of the people

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Speaker 3: of Iran, and it's very possible, but I can tell

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Speaker 3: you this, the way that the government of Iran has

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Speaker 3: responded to the protest is every single person in Iran

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Speaker 3: would happily join any intelligence service to end this regime.

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Speaker 3: There's that we are not unified in what we want,

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Speaker 3: but we are unified and not wanting this to amic republic.

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Speaker 1: What was the talk among demonstrators about what the end

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Speaker 1: goal was like? What what was the step from you know,

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Speaker 1: hundreds of thousands of people in the streets on Thursday

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Speaker 1: to the regime being toppled.

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Speaker 2: There wasn't a lot of talk. We were just like

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Speaker 2: chat thing.

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Speaker 3: But my sense is that nobody knows, and that's very scary.

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Speaker 3: And I think the people that we all know that

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Speaker 3: in chaos there's risk. They know that their livelihood is

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Speaker 3: going to be affected. Dollar has, like the Iranian currency

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Speaker 3: has dropped in value so much that a regular person

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Speaker 3: in Tehran now makes a little less than three hundred dollars.

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Speaker 3: Probably millions of families have dropped from middle class to poor.

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Speaker 3: So I think they know it's going to be rough.

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Speaker 3: I think they're scared of what's going to happen next.

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Speaker 3: I think this government could have stopped this many many

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Speaker 3: times during this forty seven years. They could have made

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Speaker 3: change easier and smoother. But every time they chose to

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Speaker 3: oppress their own people, to kill their own people, hang

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Speaker 3: their own people, torture their own people, disappear their own people.

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Speaker 3: And there was the saying after Massamini was murdered that

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Speaker 3: the rage of a grieving mother will never go quiet.

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Speaker 2: And there are.

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Speaker 3: Thousands of grieving mothers in you're on right now, and

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Speaker 3: I don't know what they're going to do with that.

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Speaker 3: They might succeed this time, but something changed.

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Speaker 2: Now.

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Speaker 1: The videos and the photos that you shared with me

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Speaker 1: that you and your friends took were those mostly from

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Speaker 1: Thursday and Friday, Like, I, did you catch anything from

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Speaker 1: Saturday or were you in and out so fast?

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Speaker 2: No?

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Speaker 3: No, they were yes, No, I had nothing on Saturday,

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Speaker 3: and I meant to take a video of the bikers,

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Speaker 3: but I was so scared I couldn't move. I can

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Speaker 3: tell you this. They were like freakishly terrifying.

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Speaker 1: They're moving around collectively, yes.

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Speaker 3: And patrolling even after Saturday night they would patrol and

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Speaker 3: scream and you know, just make sure that their presence

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Speaker 3: is known and that they are causing terror so that

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Speaker 3: people won't come out anymore.

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Speaker 1: I also wanted to get your reaction to the government's

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Speaker 1: response here as you saw they they they brought in

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Speaker 1: a bunch of ministers from around the world and showed

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Speaker 1: them footage of lost armed and masked. And people have

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Speaker 1: probably seen a lot of this footage as it has

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Speaker 1: d of circulated over the internet. On the internet. Here

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Speaker 1: you have people, you know, the firing a shotgun and

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Speaker 1: there's more of this. You know, how does this how

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Speaker 1: do how do you relate that to these the dynamic

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Speaker 1: that unfolded.

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Speaker 3: I didn't see anybody armed in the crowd, and I

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Speaker 3: didn't see any violence. I'm not surprised. It's been forty

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Speaker 3: seven years. I'm not even surprised if it turns out

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Speaker 3: that there are foreign agents among the crowds. Of course,

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Speaker 3: I know Israel benefits from time wild in Iran. I'm

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Speaker 3: not surprised if they tried to capitalize on this, if

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Speaker 3: they were to hijack it. But and I'm not surprised

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Speaker 3: that the government of Iran does these kind of performative

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Speaker 3: sittings with ambassadors. They have done this, It's not new.

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Speaker 3: And they have a certain narrative that everybody that opposes

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Speaker 3: US is imperialist agent in the agents of Mossad or Cia.

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Speaker 3: And I'm not denying that Mussad or Cia are not

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Speaker 3: benevolent agents in the world. But I can tell you

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Speaker 3: that most of the people in the streets are the

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Speaker 3: people of Iran. And I'm not saying that they are

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Speaker 3: beyond being manipulated. Of course they are. But any I

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Speaker 3: think anyone in the situation that the people of Iran

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Speaker 3: are right now economically, culturally, sanction wise, relationships with the

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Speaker 3: outside world. You look at the situation in Uran from

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Speaker 3: any aspect that you like, you will understand why the

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Speaker 3: people of Iran would come to the street. It doesn't

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Speaker 3: matter who asks them to. They want change. And I

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Speaker 3: don't think these kind of having ambassadors watch videos would

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Speaker 3: work anymore. Even if there are armed agents that hijack

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Speaker 3: these movements, that doesn't matter. That's not the movement, because

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Speaker 3: this is not This hasn't been the only uprising. We

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Speaker 3: have been protesting for forty seven years. The Molaws are

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Speaker 3: corrupt and cruel, and that's the truth. And I think,

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Speaker 3: as somebody who's been a leftist and a progressive, I'm

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Speaker 3: actually a little heartbroken that we can't say that with

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Speaker 3: our full chest. Because Iran has been a presence in

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Speaker 3: the Middle East, that's at least a kind of obstacle

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Speaker 3: for United States and Israel. But that shouldn't mean that

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Speaker 3: we deny the people of Iran what they deserve, which

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Speaker 3: is freedom and a dignified life. And if Iran has

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Speaker 3: been an obstacle for Israel, and Israel has been an

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Speaker 3: obstacle for the Islamic Republic, all of that can be

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Speaker 3: analyzed without being silent when people are being oppressed.

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Speaker 1: Now when it when it comes to the American response,

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Speaker 1: the Trump administration, as far as my sources are telling me,

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Speaker 1: are still leaning towards air strikes despite the fact that

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Speaker 1: we are where we are. Where do the demonstrator? Obviously

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Speaker 1: there are a lot of different viewpoints, but like, how

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Speaker 1: do you see American intervention and how to how what

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Speaker 1: is your general sense of how people in the street

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Speaker 1: since it, And it goes to that same question earlier,

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Speaker 1: what's the step from American air strikes to the regime topling?

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Speaker 1: Because from my own analysis, and I don't know. I've

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Speaker 1: never been to Iran, I don't know it as well

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Speaker 1: as people who live there. But I don't see how

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Speaker 1: American air strikes bring about regime change. I fail to

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Speaker 1: see what the connect how that connects from one to

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Speaker 1: the other. So give me your take on that.

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Speaker 3: I okay, I'm hesitant to just give you my own opinion.

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Speaker 3: I'll tell you what I think and what I think

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Speaker 3: people of your own think most of them.

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Speaker 2: I am anti war.

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Speaker 3: I do not like air strikes and I do not

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Speaker 3: like barn interventions.

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Speaker 2: They're always shortsighted in.

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Speaker 3: Not motivated by what I think is needed on the ground,

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Speaker 3: so I and I don't respect Donald Trump in any

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Speaker 3: shape or form. So my personal opinion is I don't

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Speaker 3: trust what he says. I don't trust what he does,

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Speaker 3: and I don't I wouldn't if it was me, I

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Speaker 3: wouldn't ask him or help. And I don't know how

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Speaker 3: air strikes can lead to regime change. I have no

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Speaker 3: idea either. I'm just a normal person. I've never worked

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Speaker 3: in politics, but inside on the streets, I think people

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Speaker 3: were as divided as the Iranian diaspora. Outside of Iran,

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Speaker 3: I think there are a lot of people that are

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Speaker 3: so done, they're so it's been so bad that they're

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Speaker 3: like anything. If they can change, if they can attack

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Speaker 3: and kill Harmony, for example, without us having to pay

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Speaker 3: a lot, sure why not. And there are people that

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Speaker 3: are like, absolutely not. We do not want anybody to

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Speaker 3: attack us, and I don't. I'm not saying that we

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Speaker 3: should take everybody's opinion and take an average. I don't

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Speaker 3: believe in that kind of attitude when it comes to

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Speaker 3: making these decisions. And I don't presume that I know

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Speaker 3: what's best. So I'm just talking for myself. I'm just

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Speaker 3: telling you what I think and I think the best

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Speaker 3: thing for Iran is for we have elites in prison,

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Speaker 3: we have elites outside of Iran.

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Speaker 2: We can have.

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Speaker 3: A group of people that would help the people, help referendums,

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Speaker 3: and help pulling to move from this regime to a

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Speaker 3: more democratic one if possible. Throughout forty seven years, they

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Speaker 3: have tried to kill and silence everybody inside of Iran,

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Speaker 3: and they have done some assassination outside of Iran as well.

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Speaker 3: But I still think Iranians themselves have people that are

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Speaker 3: capable of steering this country at least towards a better path.

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Speaker 3: I don't think we need anyone, particularly those who are

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Speaker 3: responsible for geniciding other people.

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Speaker 1: Well, thank you so much for sharing your your experience.

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Speaker 1: Very much appreciate you. Uh, I'm sure that was I'm

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Speaker 1: sure that was. That was difficult, and it's going to

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Speaker 1: live with you for forever.

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Speaker 2: Thank you.