1 00:00:03,200 --> 00:00:06,400 Speaker 1: Learning to love ourselves and our messy and complicated truth 2 00:00:06,760 --> 00:00:09,680 Speaker 1: is hard enough. But what happens when you have that 3 00:00:09,760 --> 00:00:12,799 Speaker 1: feeling of otherness just hanging over your head, where you 4 00:00:12,840 --> 00:00:16,319 Speaker 1: don't feel understood even within your own tribe. How do 5 00:00:16,400 --> 00:00:19,919 Speaker 1: you confidently grow into your own skin or maybe even 6 00:00:20,000 --> 00:00:22,360 Speaker 1: grow out of it when the road to acceptance and 7 00:00:22,400 --> 00:00:26,920 Speaker 1: healing is so rough and bumpy. Hey there, it's Zach 8 00:00:27,400 --> 00:00:29,920 Speaker 1: Welcome back to in the Deep Stories that shape us. 9 00:00:30,320 --> 00:00:32,640 Speaker 1: I hope you've been able to catch our past episodes, 10 00:00:32,840 --> 00:00:36,680 Speaker 1: especially part two of our conversation with Leon Ford. If 11 00:00:36,680 --> 00:00:39,920 Speaker 1: you haven't checked it out, I really really recommend it. 12 00:00:39,920 --> 00:00:42,160 Speaker 1: It's the powerful story of a man that is shot 13 00:00:42,200 --> 00:00:46,120 Speaker 1: by the police, left paralyzed, but uses his experiences to 14 00:00:46,159 --> 00:00:49,320 Speaker 1: help men the relationship between the police and his community. 15 00:00:49,760 --> 00:00:53,720 Speaker 1: Take a list of So today I want to talk 16 00:00:53,760 --> 00:00:57,120 Speaker 1: about those people that reach us, that represent us, that 17 00:00:57,240 --> 00:01:00,520 Speaker 1: are a reflection of us without ever having met us. 18 00:01:00,960 --> 00:01:03,080 Speaker 1: Today's guests feels like that to me because of how 19 00:01:03,120 --> 00:01:05,760 Speaker 1: his work has impacted how I look at myself in 20 00:01:05,800 --> 00:01:08,120 Speaker 1: the world, and also how I look at that very 21 00:01:08,160 --> 00:01:11,720 Speaker 1: same world. You've probably seen yolo Achiley Robinson's writings about 22 00:01:11,760 --> 00:01:14,399 Speaker 1: mental health or maybe even heard of being the Black 23 00:01:14,440 --> 00:01:17,680 Speaker 1: Emotional and Mental Health Collective. But after reading his work 24 00:01:17,680 --> 00:01:20,400 Speaker 1: and following him, I wanted to learn more about the 25 00:01:20,400 --> 00:01:23,160 Speaker 1: person behind it all. I wanted to hear his story 26 00:01:23,360 --> 00:01:26,160 Speaker 1: because before he became the resource to so many people 27 00:01:26,240 --> 00:01:29,480 Speaker 1: that he is, Yolo was hurt a lot by people 28 00:01:29,520 --> 00:01:31,920 Speaker 1: that he loved, and like most of us, he has 29 00:01:31,959 --> 00:01:34,560 Speaker 1: had to learn how to pick himself up, how to 30 00:01:34,680 --> 00:01:37,520 Speaker 1: heal from sexual and emotional abuse, and how to forgive 31 00:01:37,560 --> 00:01:40,560 Speaker 1: those in his life. Not an easy journey for anyone, 32 00:01:41,200 --> 00:01:43,560 Speaker 1: but to get to that, we have to start at 33 00:01:43,560 --> 00:01:50,040 Speaker 1: the beginning his early life. I was born in Fort Lado, Florida. 34 00:01:50,360 --> 00:01:54,240 Speaker 1: I am the child of military father who spent forty 35 00:01:54,320 --> 00:01:56,480 Speaker 1: years in the military and retired to go back and 36 00:01:56,520 --> 00:02:00,400 Speaker 1: work for the military, and a mother who um has 37 00:02:00,440 --> 00:02:02,640 Speaker 1: been an education for but I think most of her life. 38 00:02:03,280 --> 00:02:05,840 Speaker 1: They came from a background which we are still discovering 39 00:02:05,840 --> 00:02:08,400 Speaker 1: a lot of their background. For example, my mother didn't 40 00:02:08,400 --> 00:02:11,520 Speaker 1: know her father very well, but we're discovering he's from St. 41 00:02:11,600 --> 00:02:14,640 Speaker 1: Kitts via Haiti via d r and so that's a 42 00:02:14,680 --> 00:02:16,799 Speaker 1: big part of the kind of heritage trends that I'm 43 00:02:16,840 --> 00:02:20,119 Speaker 1: holding as a Southerner, but also with a Caribbean like heritage. 44 00:02:20,400 --> 00:02:22,200 Speaker 1: I lived all over the United States, in the world, 45 00:02:22,240 --> 00:02:24,959 Speaker 1: lived in Germany until I was um in fifth grade 46 00:02:24,960 --> 00:02:27,040 Speaker 1: and came back to the South. One thing that is 47 00:02:27,080 --> 00:02:30,960 Speaker 1: really curious about military bases in foreign countries, particularly in Germany, 48 00:02:31,360 --> 00:02:34,680 Speaker 1: is while there was racism, without a doubt, there was 49 00:02:34,720 --> 00:02:37,920 Speaker 1: the ways in which are kind of connection as Americans 50 00:02:38,000 --> 00:02:41,320 Speaker 1: influenced the dynamics of race differently. So I just remember 51 00:02:41,360 --> 00:02:43,959 Speaker 1: coming back to Augusta, Georgia, which is Deep South, home 52 00:02:44,000 --> 00:02:46,440 Speaker 1: of James Brown, and you know, I remember like going 53 00:02:46,480 --> 00:02:48,920 Speaker 1: to the cafeteria and my earliest memory and sitting at 54 00:02:48,919 --> 00:02:50,679 Speaker 1: the table with white kids right like you know, and 55 00:02:50,760 --> 00:02:53,000 Speaker 1: not thinking much about it because that was kind of 56 00:02:53,000 --> 00:02:55,240 Speaker 1: the experience I had in Germany. And um, you know, 57 00:02:55,360 --> 00:02:57,399 Speaker 1: this white kid is saying to me, you can't sit here, 58 00:02:57,520 --> 00:02:58,880 Speaker 1: you you need to go sit with the black kids. 59 00:02:58,880 --> 00:03:02,239 Speaker 1: And I remember being like, oh wow. And then because 60 00:03:02,280 --> 00:03:04,320 Speaker 1: of the way I spoke, because I had been living 61 00:03:04,360 --> 00:03:06,480 Speaker 1: in a military base, I didn't have a Southern accent. 62 00:03:06,680 --> 00:03:08,840 Speaker 1: I had, like you know, this point, was speaking the 63 00:03:08,840 --> 00:03:11,120 Speaker 1: way I've been taught and going to the black kid's 64 00:03:11,160 --> 00:03:12,880 Speaker 1: table and they'll be like, why do you talk like that. 65 00:03:13,080 --> 00:03:14,840 Speaker 1: I didn't have a drawl at that point, which I 66 00:03:14,840 --> 00:03:17,040 Speaker 1: have a little bit more now, you know. So it 67 00:03:17,160 --> 00:03:19,320 Speaker 1: was an adjustment, you know, coming back and like and 68 00:03:19,360 --> 00:03:22,200 Speaker 1: Couturally I was behind right. My parents were big into music, 69 00:03:22,240 --> 00:03:24,000 Speaker 1: but like you know, you didn't have the internet, so 70 00:03:24,040 --> 00:03:25,880 Speaker 1: the things you were listening to by the time we 71 00:03:25,919 --> 00:03:27,600 Speaker 1: got to the stage, they were like nobody's checking from 72 00:03:27,600 --> 00:03:29,480 Speaker 1: EMC Hammer. I really need you to do something different 73 00:03:29,480 --> 00:03:33,079 Speaker 1: with your life. So the way I addressed the music 74 00:03:33,120 --> 00:03:35,640 Speaker 1: I thought was interesting, and Augusta I was like an 75 00:03:35,680 --> 00:03:38,440 Speaker 1: alien walking around, like what is going on? And for 76 00:03:38,520 --> 00:03:42,240 Speaker 1: years took me a while to adjust. It's hard to 77 00:03:42,280 --> 00:03:45,080 Speaker 1: think of someone that's so confident feeling like an outsider, 78 00:03:45,240 --> 00:03:48,160 Speaker 1: an alien. And it's especially hard to think about the 79 00:03:48,200 --> 00:03:50,800 Speaker 1: timing of all of this during this formidable years of 80 00:03:50,880 --> 00:03:54,640 Speaker 1: manhood where we were growing into our own The influence 81 00:03:54,640 --> 00:03:57,760 Speaker 1: of military played on Yollo's early life. His father in particular, 82 00:03:58,040 --> 00:04:00,440 Speaker 1: was hard because on the one hand, you had a 83 00:04:00,440 --> 00:04:03,120 Speaker 1: father that only wanted to protect his son, wanted to 84 00:04:03,160 --> 00:04:05,240 Speaker 1: make a good man of him, But on the other 85 00:04:05,560 --> 00:04:08,600 Speaker 1: yollow have these feelings of repression where the discipline was 86 00:04:08,680 --> 00:04:13,640 Speaker 1: just too much. I think it's important to get the 87 00:04:13,640 --> 00:04:15,600 Speaker 1: context that my father comes from, like, you know, a 88 00:04:15,800 --> 00:04:19,520 Speaker 1: very difficult background, you know, and the military for him 89 00:04:19,839 --> 00:04:22,520 Speaker 1: was the speaking for him of hope. It gave him 90 00:04:22,560 --> 00:04:25,760 Speaker 1: discipline and gave him structure. My father grew up in 91 00:04:25,839 --> 00:04:29,080 Speaker 1: environments like many black men are many men do, really 92 00:04:29,120 --> 00:04:31,920 Speaker 1: seeing the qualities and traits that I was gravitating towards 93 00:04:31,960 --> 00:04:35,359 Speaker 1: and expressing the softness to kind of the fluidity of 94 00:04:35,360 --> 00:04:38,599 Speaker 1: my movements, the interests in arts and music, et cetera, 95 00:04:38,960 --> 00:04:40,560 Speaker 1: as something that kind of put me in danger and 96 00:04:40,680 --> 00:04:42,800 Speaker 1: it was a threat to my well being, right, and 97 00:04:42,839 --> 00:04:45,240 Speaker 1: so it was very much so like you know, um 98 00:04:45,279 --> 00:04:47,880 Speaker 1: reinforced by his military upbringing, where every day he was 99 00:04:47,960 --> 00:04:51,479 Speaker 1: getting that message reinscribed and in many ways, like was 100 00:04:51,520 --> 00:04:53,600 Speaker 1: trying to put that onto me. You know, talk about 101 00:04:53,640 --> 00:04:55,960 Speaker 1: my father. Now we have a great relationship, but most 102 00:04:55,960 --> 00:04:57,359 Speaker 1: of my life that has him in the case, it 103 00:04:57,440 --> 00:05:00,520 Speaker 1: was very hostile because I believe if that a part 104 00:05:00,520 --> 00:05:02,880 Speaker 1: of what my father was navigating was he was trying 105 00:05:02,920 --> 00:05:05,120 Speaker 1: to create safety for me, but I experienced it as repression. 106 00:05:05,240 --> 00:05:08,440 Speaker 1: He was trying to remove an element of my character 107 00:05:08,520 --> 00:05:11,080 Speaker 1: that he saw as putting me as risk. For so 108 00:05:11,160 --> 00:05:14,320 Speaker 1: much violence and harm um as opposed to understanding this 109 00:05:14,360 --> 00:05:16,279 Speaker 1: is how I'm expressing and showing up in the world, 110 00:05:16,320 --> 00:05:19,160 Speaker 1: and I need to have that nurtured while also cultivating 111 00:05:19,160 --> 00:05:21,720 Speaker 1: safety and protection for me. Yeah, it was it was rough. 112 00:05:22,000 --> 00:05:24,560 Speaker 1: My dad we have a joke now, we laugh about um. 113 00:05:24,600 --> 00:05:26,520 Speaker 1: He was very big about yard work and just kind 114 00:05:26,520 --> 00:05:28,719 Speaker 1: of like, you know, making sure things meticulous. And so 115 00:05:28,839 --> 00:05:31,240 Speaker 1: my father, who did not understand landscape because he just 116 00:05:31,279 --> 00:05:33,520 Speaker 1: kind of starting to become middle class. You know, he 117 00:05:33,600 --> 00:05:35,440 Speaker 1: got these white rocks in his side to put all 118 00:05:35,440 --> 00:05:37,680 Speaker 1: around the outside of the house that he bought, and 119 00:05:37,720 --> 00:05:39,279 Speaker 1: he wanted to keep them white, but he didn't know 120 00:05:39,320 --> 00:05:41,320 Speaker 1: to put a tarp underneath this so the dirt won't 121 00:05:41,320 --> 00:05:43,760 Speaker 1: be there, right, So he would have us wash the 122 00:05:43,839 --> 00:05:47,240 Speaker 1: rocks weekly. We would get a wheelbarrow and watch the 123 00:05:47,320 --> 00:05:49,640 Speaker 1: rocks to put them back on the dirt, which makes 124 00:05:49,640 --> 00:05:53,120 Speaker 1: no sense. How did you begin to find yourself in 125 00:05:53,120 --> 00:05:55,880 Speaker 1: this tension with your father who's trying to kind of 126 00:05:56,160 --> 00:05:58,760 Speaker 1: mary militantly take this out of you, but you began 127 00:05:58,800 --> 00:06:00,600 Speaker 1: to know that this wasn't going away anyway. This is 128 00:06:00,640 --> 00:06:03,000 Speaker 1: actually you. And how do you find love between a 129 00:06:03,040 --> 00:06:05,279 Speaker 1: father when you know that he's and his heart trying 130 00:06:05,279 --> 00:06:07,880 Speaker 1: to protect you but also hurting you. When they're saying 131 00:06:07,920 --> 00:06:11,080 Speaker 1: I'm so scared for you, they're speaking as survivors of 132 00:06:11,200 --> 00:06:14,760 Speaker 1: gendered patriarchal violence. They remember and some part of them 133 00:06:14,760 --> 00:06:18,039 Speaker 1: knows the softness they once had access to, or maybe 134 00:06:18,040 --> 00:06:20,120 Speaker 1: didn't have access to, in the same way they do now. 135 00:06:20,600 --> 00:06:22,919 Speaker 1: They remember what it felt to have that attacked and 136 00:06:23,000 --> 00:06:27,359 Speaker 1: belittled and destroyed, and sometimes, as survivors of that trauma, 137 00:06:27,640 --> 00:06:29,160 Speaker 1: the only thing that can think of is like, let 138 00:06:29,160 --> 00:06:30,880 Speaker 1: me do it to you first, because the world's gonna 139 00:06:30,920 --> 00:06:32,560 Speaker 1: do it to you to protect you from the other 140 00:06:32,640 --> 00:06:34,920 Speaker 1: folks doing it to you. And that's the logic, that's 141 00:06:34,960 --> 00:06:37,600 Speaker 1: the coping strategy, right And that's what they see. And 142 00:06:37,720 --> 00:06:39,800 Speaker 1: just like a lot of trauma, it doesn't always get 143 00:06:39,960 --> 00:06:43,120 Speaker 1: um examined in a way that helps expand the possibilities 144 00:06:43,120 --> 00:06:47,360 Speaker 1: of how we could respond to this. So here is 145 00:06:47,400 --> 00:06:50,279 Speaker 1: Yolo trying to be himself in this very strict, very 146 00:06:50,480 --> 00:06:53,840 Speaker 1: tough love household, and learning a little more about his 147 00:06:53,960 --> 00:06:57,080 Speaker 1: upbringing helps me understand how he can connect with people 148 00:06:57,160 --> 00:06:59,599 Speaker 1: through his work See the Other Side, so to speak. 149 00:07:00,240 --> 00:07:03,640 Speaker 1: Take his spoken word album Purple Galaxy for example, this 150 00:07:03,839 --> 00:07:07,200 Speaker 1: is a fifteen track piece reflecting on himself, his queerness, 151 00:07:07,400 --> 00:07:10,960 Speaker 1: his heritage, his identity, and yet it touched so many people, 152 00:07:11,320 --> 00:07:13,640 Speaker 1: and not just queer black men, but sis black men 153 00:07:13,680 --> 00:07:16,800 Speaker 1: and women, and I wanted to know more about one poem, 154 00:07:16,920 --> 00:07:19,840 Speaker 1: in particular, we are not the kind of Boys We want, 155 00:07:20,040 --> 00:07:23,520 Speaker 1: which was such a powerful account of self expression and awareness. 156 00:07:27,040 --> 00:07:29,480 Speaker 1: Around the time, I was working in an LGBT community 157 00:07:29,520 --> 00:07:32,360 Speaker 1: center in Atlanta, and so much of the themes that 158 00:07:32,480 --> 00:07:34,600 Speaker 1: came up and that I also was struggling with, was 159 00:07:34,640 --> 00:07:36,800 Speaker 1: the ways in which that like as men who were 160 00:07:36,880 --> 00:07:39,640 Speaker 1: not like, you know, super butch and like all the time, 161 00:07:39,800 --> 00:07:42,440 Speaker 1: or who had a fluidity to their expression, that we 162 00:07:42,560 --> 00:07:44,920 Speaker 1: weren't as desirable. And I began to think about what 163 00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:46,360 Speaker 1: does it mean to not be the kind of boy 164 00:07:46,440 --> 00:07:48,040 Speaker 1: that you want? Like? What does it mean to be 165 00:07:48,120 --> 00:07:50,600 Speaker 1: so much disdain when you see someone who moves the 166 00:07:50,640 --> 00:07:52,920 Speaker 1: way you move and your response is to like yuck 167 00:07:53,040 --> 00:07:55,360 Speaker 1: them and be like oh and disgusted at them? What 168 00:07:55,400 --> 00:07:58,800 Speaker 1: does that look like? I did a video where I 169 00:07:59,240 --> 00:08:02,080 Speaker 1: Wouldn't pe Up Park and I literally was out with 170 00:08:02,160 --> 00:08:04,600 Speaker 1: a random camera and asking people, you know, would you 171 00:08:04,720 --> 00:08:06,280 Speaker 1: date you? Are you the kind of boy you want? 172 00:08:06,640 --> 00:08:09,560 Speaker 1: And I got so many responses from all these different 173 00:08:09,640 --> 00:08:12,840 Speaker 1: black queer people. Um really kind of like grappling with 174 00:08:12,920 --> 00:08:15,080 Speaker 1: that and thinking like, well, no, I would never date myself, 175 00:08:15,160 --> 00:08:16,720 Speaker 1: but wait why would not? And it was such a 176 00:08:16,760 --> 00:08:19,840 Speaker 1: beautiful moment to kind of reflect on why we would 177 00:08:19,880 --> 00:08:22,440 Speaker 1: not find ourselves desirable, to say an astrology, like, you know, 178 00:08:22,680 --> 00:08:25,240 Speaker 1: the symbol for venus is a hand mirror, right, and 179 00:08:25,360 --> 00:08:27,440 Speaker 1: venus being the symbol of love. You know, what does 180 00:08:27,480 --> 00:08:30,080 Speaker 1: it mean that like desires starts with us, desires starts 181 00:08:30,120 --> 00:08:33,000 Speaker 1: with like finding ourselves is desirable and attractive, and how 182 00:08:33,080 --> 00:08:36,520 Speaker 1: that's disruptive when we don't have that because of homophobia, transphobia, 183 00:08:36,600 --> 00:08:39,280 Speaker 1: et cetera. I love that you brought up the mirror 184 00:08:39,440 --> 00:08:41,920 Speaker 1: and asking people if they would date themselves. In Greek mythology, 185 00:08:42,440 --> 00:08:46,640 Speaker 1: there is a person named Narcissus, and he was so 186 00:08:46,880 --> 00:08:52,520 Speaker 1: infatuated with his beauty that he There different interpretations. I 187 00:08:52,559 --> 00:08:55,079 Speaker 1: will say he drowned in himself. Other people say he 188 00:08:55,320 --> 00:08:57,680 Speaker 1: starved to death because he was still in love with himself. 189 00:08:58,120 --> 00:09:00,960 Speaker 1: People have taken this idea and said, well, it's because 190 00:09:01,000 --> 00:09:02,880 Speaker 1: he was queer, and like, that's the only man that 191 00:09:02,920 --> 00:09:05,439 Speaker 1: he could find to love him. But what people never 192 00:09:05,520 --> 00:09:08,439 Speaker 1: talk about is narcissist is a white man staring at himself. 193 00:09:08,800 --> 00:09:11,120 Speaker 1: And I think white gay men, queer man especially have 194 00:09:11,240 --> 00:09:14,920 Speaker 1: been given the runway, the ability to fall in love 195 00:09:14,960 --> 00:09:16,679 Speaker 1: and find love that looks a lot like them. I'm 196 00:09:16,720 --> 00:09:18,160 Speaker 1: not saying it's a good love. I'm not saying it's 197 00:09:18,200 --> 00:09:20,120 Speaker 1: perfect love, but they find it, and then we have 198 00:09:20,200 --> 00:09:23,439 Speaker 1: a culture that really props it up. Black queer men 199 00:09:23,840 --> 00:09:26,520 Speaker 1: do not. I think black people are never given that 200 00:09:26,720 --> 00:09:30,520 Speaker 1: mirror to say you are beautiful, you deserve to love yourself. 201 00:09:30,920 --> 00:09:32,960 Speaker 1: And it feels every time when you're telling that story, 202 00:09:33,000 --> 00:09:35,480 Speaker 1: it makes me think about the cultural violence we deal with, 203 00:09:35,600 --> 00:09:38,360 Speaker 1: Like we were set up to not get there. How 204 00:09:38,440 --> 00:09:40,520 Speaker 1: do you deal with hearing those stories of people saying 205 00:09:40,520 --> 00:09:43,880 Speaker 1: they don't love themselves that would say that, like as 206 00:09:43,920 --> 00:09:46,520 Speaker 1: black were people, as black transfolks, we have to create 207 00:09:46,600 --> 00:09:49,559 Speaker 1: those mirrors, Whereas I think that like white men get 208 00:09:49,640 --> 00:09:53,000 Speaker 1: the opportunity to see it's themselves so easily reflected in 209 00:09:53,040 --> 00:09:55,880 Speaker 1: the world around them as desirable and as wanted, we 210 00:09:56,040 --> 00:09:58,280 Speaker 1: have to kind of like create the art, the shows, 211 00:09:58,440 --> 00:10:01,600 Speaker 1: the all these things to bring ourselves in that space. 212 00:10:02,080 --> 00:10:05,640 Speaker 1: It's always hard for me to hear that black who. 213 00:10:05,720 --> 00:10:07,080 Speaker 1: I mean, I'm in a different place with it now 214 00:10:07,160 --> 00:10:10,280 Speaker 1: because I've heard it so much and I understand where 215 00:10:10,320 --> 00:10:12,480 Speaker 1: it comes from and I understand the roots. But I 216 00:10:12,520 --> 00:10:14,760 Speaker 1: will tell you that in my early days doing counseling, 217 00:10:15,480 --> 00:10:17,400 Speaker 1: it used to be such a big trigger for me. 218 00:10:17,440 --> 00:10:19,720 Speaker 1: I'll never forget. You know, this person is no longer 219 00:10:19,800 --> 00:10:21,840 Speaker 1: with us, But I remember one time in a group, 220 00:10:21,880 --> 00:10:25,520 Speaker 1: a young person saying, I know why my life never 221 00:10:25,640 --> 00:10:28,000 Speaker 1: goes well. This is a black trans person. They were like, 222 00:10:28,400 --> 00:10:30,400 Speaker 1: it's because, you know God, I'm not in God's favor. 223 00:10:30,880 --> 00:10:34,120 Speaker 1: God doesn't favor me, and I know that's why the 224 00:10:34,200 --> 00:10:36,760 Speaker 1: bad things happened to me. I know that's why I 225 00:10:36,840 --> 00:10:40,079 Speaker 1: get treated this way. And I've accepted that and that 226 00:10:40,320 --> 00:10:45,079 Speaker 1: message I heard that so much. Defining yourself desirable and 227 00:10:45,200 --> 00:10:47,839 Speaker 1: lovable was something that I think. That's I know some 228 00:10:47,920 --> 00:10:49,400 Speaker 1: of those young people and some and some of those 229 00:10:49,440 --> 00:10:52,080 Speaker 1: folks never got a chance to really explore you know. Um, 230 00:10:52,280 --> 00:10:54,679 Speaker 1: So it is rough. It is rough to hear it. 231 00:10:56,960 --> 00:11:00,319 Speaker 1: Let's sit without for a second. I'm not in God's favor. 232 00:11:00,800 --> 00:11:03,520 Speaker 1: Those five short words hold so much power, but it 233 00:11:03,600 --> 00:11:06,760 Speaker 1: helps us see where that deep rooted self hatred can 234 00:11:06,800 --> 00:11:10,199 Speaker 1: stem from within the lgbt Q plus community. And when 235 00:11:10,240 --> 00:11:12,880 Speaker 1: we tell ourselves this, that we are destined for bad 236 00:11:12,960 --> 00:11:16,640 Speaker 1: things to happen to us, things begin to snowball. That's 237 00:11:16,640 --> 00:11:18,920 Speaker 1: when we start to see the secrecy where the shame 238 00:11:19,040 --> 00:11:22,280 Speaker 1: begins to manifest into violence. And that's especially true with 239 00:11:22,360 --> 00:11:25,480 Speaker 1: black trans women, who are the most vulnerable when we 240 00:11:25,600 --> 00:11:27,920 Speaker 1: can seal and hide who we really are and who 241 00:11:28,040 --> 00:11:33,360 Speaker 1: we love. That this thing is important to really center 242 00:11:33,840 --> 00:11:35,920 Speaker 1: the experiences of black trains women and how challenging that 243 00:11:36,080 --> 00:11:38,480 Speaker 1: is for them to navigate these men who can be 244 00:11:38,559 --> 00:11:41,640 Speaker 1: both their lovers and also potentially provide a really big 245 00:11:41,720 --> 00:11:44,280 Speaker 1: threat to their livelihood, you know, for the for the 246 00:11:44,400 --> 00:11:47,719 Speaker 1: men who do these terrible things, these who commit these 247 00:11:47,720 --> 00:11:50,600 Speaker 1: acts of murder and violence. You know, you definitely see 248 00:11:50,640 --> 00:11:53,600 Speaker 1: how it's deeply connected to like toxic masculinity right there, 249 00:11:53,679 --> 00:11:57,200 Speaker 1: Like this deep fear of I don't know who I am, 250 00:11:58,400 --> 00:12:01,599 Speaker 1: and so I have to destroy you, because to destroy you, 251 00:12:01,840 --> 00:12:04,360 Speaker 1: I will somehow destroy that within myself because I can't 252 00:12:04,400 --> 00:12:08,600 Speaker 1: contend with the discomfort, the dissonance that it produces within 253 00:12:08,720 --> 00:12:11,600 Speaker 1: myself around who I think I am. Right, So much 254 00:12:11,640 --> 00:12:13,319 Speaker 1: of It is that fear of being found out so 255 00:12:13,440 --> 00:12:16,319 Speaker 1: much of that that that idea that like my manhood is, 256 00:12:16,440 --> 00:12:18,760 Speaker 1: my masculinity is the core of who I am. So 257 00:12:18,880 --> 00:12:21,839 Speaker 1: now me having sex with you, me being attracted to you, 258 00:12:22,320 --> 00:12:25,240 Speaker 1: disrupts that very centered notion. And so if I don't 259 00:12:25,280 --> 00:12:27,280 Speaker 1: have someone else helping me build a different bedrock of 260 00:12:27,320 --> 00:12:30,480 Speaker 1: who I am, then the act of engaging you begins 261 00:12:30,520 --> 00:12:32,920 Speaker 1: to unravel that and and me too, and trying to 262 00:12:33,040 --> 00:12:35,319 Speaker 1: clamor back and hold onto that. I'm going to do 263 00:12:35,400 --> 00:12:37,600 Speaker 1: whatever it takes to kind of reground, which might mean 264 00:12:38,400 --> 00:12:41,320 Speaker 1: violence and harm, so so that I can no longer 265 00:12:41,400 --> 00:12:43,240 Speaker 1: have to feel that feeling of distress, you know what 266 00:12:43,280 --> 00:12:45,640 Speaker 1: I mean. And that's what's happening a lot all black 267 00:12:45,720 --> 00:12:47,240 Speaker 1: men in this country, and I would say, oh man, 268 00:12:47,240 --> 00:12:49,559 Speaker 1: but I'm gonna speak to black men have been socialized 269 00:12:49,600 --> 00:12:51,760 Speaker 1: with the most terrible and disgusting thing you can be 270 00:12:52,000 --> 00:12:55,880 Speaker 1: is queer or trans right. And whether you're queer TRANSI 271 00:12:55,880 --> 00:12:58,360 Speaker 1: strate you receive that message. And for a lot of 272 00:12:58,559 --> 00:13:02,880 Speaker 1: straight men are in who identify a straight seeing us 273 00:13:03,040 --> 00:13:05,880 Speaker 1: in the world represents that kind of wound that they 274 00:13:05,920 --> 00:13:08,400 Speaker 1: may have received when they were told to stifle the 275 00:13:08,440 --> 00:13:12,240 Speaker 1: queerness of the transniscent themselves to suffocate the softness in themselves, 276 00:13:12,280 --> 00:13:15,400 Speaker 1: to suffocate the femininity. And then you see someone existing 277 00:13:15,440 --> 00:13:18,280 Speaker 1: in this way that you have been beaten down for generations, 278 00:13:18,520 --> 00:13:21,280 Speaker 1: and of course it activates that memory, that feeling of 279 00:13:21,679 --> 00:13:23,640 Speaker 1: oh my god, like, what the hell is he doing 280 00:13:23,679 --> 00:13:25,480 Speaker 1: wearing that dress? What is she doing looking like that? 281 00:13:25,800 --> 00:13:27,959 Speaker 1: You know? I mean what happened to me was I 282 00:13:28,040 --> 00:13:30,040 Speaker 1: had I got beat up by the kids, I got 283 00:13:30,120 --> 00:13:33,120 Speaker 1: beatn up by my father, I got like assaulted, right, 284 00:13:33,559 --> 00:13:36,319 Speaker 1: and that trauma. I then took that trauma on and 285 00:13:36,440 --> 00:13:38,599 Speaker 1: I replicated it because I wanted to fit in with 286 00:13:38,640 --> 00:13:40,520 Speaker 1: the guys. So like now when I said, instead of 287 00:13:40,640 --> 00:13:43,120 Speaker 1: like um, honoring my softness and trying to fight for it, 288 00:13:43,520 --> 00:13:47,280 Speaker 1: I assimilate into this rigidity and I and I helped 289 00:13:47,320 --> 00:13:50,120 Speaker 1: I joined the police force around softness and femininity and 290 00:13:50,320 --> 00:13:53,439 Speaker 1: and gender variance. Right, And that's what happens on the streets, 291 00:13:53,559 --> 00:13:56,880 Speaker 1: That's what happens in our community. So often, the inability 292 00:13:56,920 --> 00:13:59,480 Speaker 1: to go internal to ask themselves weight hold on, I 293 00:13:59,600 --> 00:14:02,360 Speaker 1: see you, and this feeling is awakened within me. My 294 00:14:02,520 --> 00:14:04,240 Speaker 1: response is a man has been taught there Like if 295 00:14:04,280 --> 00:14:06,840 Speaker 1: I destroy you I won't feel that. It's like if 296 00:14:06,920 --> 00:14:08,640 Speaker 1: I see a trans person or a quick person and 297 00:14:08,920 --> 00:14:11,199 Speaker 1: all these feelings come up in me, but then you 298 00:14:11,280 --> 00:14:12,959 Speaker 1: see and you're like, oh girl, work you know what 299 00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:15,720 Speaker 1: I mean? Like, you know, the response is about something 300 00:14:15,800 --> 00:14:17,839 Speaker 1: in me. But men haven't been taught to men and 301 00:14:17,920 --> 00:14:19,360 Speaker 1: masterl and folks in this country have not been taught 302 00:14:19,360 --> 00:14:21,640 Speaker 1: to go within and see, like, what is that disruption 303 00:14:21,760 --> 00:14:24,280 Speaker 1: in me about? They've been taught to go outside and 304 00:14:24,320 --> 00:14:26,640 Speaker 1: squash it so they don't have to feel it within themselves. 305 00:14:26,720 --> 00:14:29,120 Speaker 1: You know, when you're the adult fourty year old who's 306 00:14:29,120 --> 00:14:31,240 Speaker 1: having that experience and you're seeing trans queer people and 307 00:14:31,280 --> 00:14:34,600 Speaker 1: you're having those emotions, you've likely gone through forty plus 308 00:14:34,720 --> 00:14:37,440 Speaker 1: years of gender socialization, which I have like taught you 309 00:14:37,560 --> 00:14:42,400 Speaker 1: to disconnect, to cut off, to dismember your emotional self. 310 00:14:42,480 --> 00:14:44,200 Speaker 1: You know, I often tell the story about, you know, 311 00:14:44,320 --> 00:14:46,120 Speaker 1: my godson and many of the kids I've loved and 312 00:14:46,160 --> 00:14:49,280 Speaker 1: support throughout my life. My godson learning how to walk 313 00:14:49,760 --> 00:14:51,720 Speaker 1: and like falling and being like, you know, like and 314 00:14:51,880 --> 00:14:54,560 Speaker 1: me coddling him, and immediately his father coming in and 315 00:14:54,600 --> 00:14:56,000 Speaker 1: being like he gonna grow up to be a punk, 316 00:14:56,080 --> 00:14:58,320 Speaker 1: let him cry, like you gotta put him down, you know, 317 00:14:58,440 --> 00:15:00,840 Speaker 1: he gotta learn how to be a man. Like that 318 00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:03,200 Speaker 1: person who's forty years old who's on the street and 319 00:15:03,280 --> 00:15:06,040 Speaker 1: sees that trans and queer person and has that emotional reaction. 320 00:15:06,160 --> 00:15:08,920 Speaker 1: Is it's often the same person who received the message 321 00:15:08,920 --> 00:15:12,720 Speaker 1: as a toddler to man up and suffocate your feelings. 322 00:15:13,120 --> 00:15:15,200 Speaker 1: And so now you've done that for decades, and so 323 00:15:15,400 --> 00:15:18,040 Speaker 1: you don't have the emotional self reflection because you've been 324 00:15:18,080 --> 00:15:20,640 Speaker 1: taught to press it down. Whereas a lot of like 325 00:15:20,760 --> 00:15:22,800 Speaker 1: I say, a lot of women in film and queer people, 326 00:15:23,240 --> 00:15:28,000 Speaker 1: we often develop emotional self flexivity out of shame um, 327 00:15:28,040 --> 00:15:30,760 Speaker 1: out of being held responsible for other people's feelings, particularly women, 328 00:15:30,880 --> 00:15:34,000 Speaker 1: like you're responsible for everybody's feelings about you, or out 329 00:15:34,080 --> 00:15:36,160 Speaker 1: of like safety hyper vigilance. We've got to know what 330 00:15:36,240 --> 00:15:39,480 Speaker 1: people are feeling because he might be transphobic, he might 331 00:15:39,520 --> 00:15:42,560 Speaker 1: be queer. So we're very cognizant of those things. Whereas 332 00:15:42,600 --> 00:15:45,600 Speaker 1: when you're when you're you know, traditionally masculine and many men, 333 00:15:45,880 --> 00:15:49,880 Speaker 1: you may not develop the same faculties. Just like with 334 00:15:50,000 --> 00:15:54,000 Speaker 1: his godson, Yola's work has helped so many people, strangers 335 00:15:54,080 --> 00:15:57,640 Speaker 1: and family alike, look within and be empathetic, but just 336 00:15:57,800 --> 00:16:00,160 Speaker 1: like he can connect with people through his art and 337 00:16:00,280 --> 00:16:02,880 Speaker 1: his work, I was curious to hear about his own 338 00:16:02,960 --> 00:16:06,720 Speaker 1: story of domestic violence because Yolo is an artist, he's 339 00:16:06,840 --> 00:16:11,160 Speaker 1: educated and introspective, and sometimes it's easy to forget that 340 00:16:11,280 --> 00:16:13,880 Speaker 1: this can happen to anyone, and that is why it's 341 00:16:13,920 --> 00:16:19,040 Speaker 1: so helpful to hear the stories of others. You Know. 342 00:16:19,080 --> 00:16:21,240 Speaker 1: One thing I say is that for black queer men, 343 00:16:21,720 --> 00:16:24,480 Speaker 1: our threshold for what we understand violence to be can 344 00:16:24,560 --> 00:16:28,680 Speaker 1: be very high. We're used to being in such vaulatile environments, 345 00:16:28,760 --> 00:16:30,480 Speaker 1: whether it's with each other or just the way the 346 00:16:30,520 --> 00:16:33,520 Speaker 1: world relates to us, that we don't always recognize certain 347 00:16:33,560 --> 00:16:35,840 Speaker 1: dimensions of violence as violence because it's like it's, oh, 348 00:16:35,880 --> 00:16:37,160 Speaker 1: we didn't hit you in the head, so it's not 349 00:16:37,280 --> 00:16:39,160 Speaker 1: that bad, and it's like, well, actually, there were a 350 00:16:39,240 --> 00:16:41,800 Speaker 1: lot of things happening here right. I met a person 351 00:16:42,960 --> 00:16:46,840 Speaker 1: at a point in my life where I was post um, 352 00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:51,440 Speaker 1: suicidal attempt, low self esteem. I had um left USC 353 00:16:51,640 --> 00:16:54,240 Speaker 1: where I started my social work degree and felt like 354 00:16:54,320 --> 00:16:59,000 Speaker 1: I failed, and I was feeling that who I was 355 00:16:59,560 --> 00:17:02,200 Speaker 1: was not viable and that I need to be something else. 356 00:17:03,280 --> 00:17:05,480 Speaker 1: And I met this person who was in a different 357 00:17:05,520 --> 00:17:09,200 Speaker 1: part of their journey. We connected in a relationship, and 358 00:17:10,440 --> 00:17:14,640 Speaker 1: in that relationship they showed up in ways that they 359 00:17:15,040 --> 00:17:16,920 Speaker 1: were working through their things, and I showed up in 360 00:17:16,960 --> 00:17:18,760 Speaker 1: ways in which I was working through my things, you know. 361 00:17:19,320 --> 00:17:21,040 Speaker 1: And I think it's so important. I try to say 362 00:17:21,080 --> 00:17:23,679 Speaker 1: this consistently because I think it's so important to talk 363 00:17:23,680 --> 00:17:27,119 Speaker 1: about domestic violence. He is not a boogeyman. That's like 364 00:17:27,200 --> 00:17:28,479 Speaker 1: what I said when I when I worked in men 365 00:17:28,520 --> 00:17:30,959 Speaker 1: Stopping violence, the men that I helped um learn new 366 00:17:31,000 --> 00:17:33,479 Speaker 1: behaviors were like our brothers, our uncles, are cousins. These 367 00:17:33,520 --> 00:17:35,800 Speaker 1: were men who are learned terrible things and had sometimes 368 00:17:35,880 --> 00:17:38,639 Speaker 1: done terrible things. But they were not boogeymen. They were 369 00:17:38,760 --> 00:17:42,240 Speaker 1: human beings who often were survivors themselves. And so the 370 00:17:42,320 --> 00:17:44,440 Speaker 1: man that I met, you know, was the survivor of 371 00:17:44,520 --> 00:17:47,040 Speaker 1: a lot of violence and harm. But I developed coping 372 00:17:47,080 --> 00:17:49,879 Speaker 1: strategies that replicated that harm in many really destructive and 373 00:17:49,920 --> 00:17:53,639 Speaker 1: harmful ways to me. And I learned I had learned 374 00:17:53,720 --> 00:17:56,280 Speaker 1: in my life, and I showed up in that relationship. 375 00:17:57,440 --> 00:17:59,399 Speaker 1: The ways in which I seen modeled by caregivers in 376 00:17:59,480 --> 00:18:02,639 Speaker 1: my life was to be, you know, the people pleaser, 377 00:18:02,720 --> 00:18:04,439 Speaker 1: which was to like try to please you as much. 378 00:18:04,600 --> 00:18:07,320 Speaker 1: Was just trying to placate you, to make you, you know, 379 00:18:07,480 --> 00:18:09,520 Speaker 1: as happy as much as I could, Like, you know, 380 00:18:09,640 --> 00:18:12,000 Speaker 1: my father is a different man now, but my father 381 00:18:12,640 --> 00:18:15,200 Speaker 1: was explosive. He had a temper when he was younger, 382 00:18:15,280 --> 00:18:17,440 Speaker 1: and that's something we all talked about. And I fell 383 00:18:17,520 --> 00:18:20,359 Speaker 1: into a role that I had seen modeled where I 384 00:18:20,480 --> 00:18:23,520 Speaker 1: would assume that his anger was about me, as opposed 385 00:18:23,560 --> 00:18:25,520 Speaker 1: to he needs to learn how to manage his anger. 386 00:18:25,960 --> 00:18:28,920 Speaker 1: He had suffered so much harm and so much pain, 387 00:18:29,520 --> 00:18:32,240 Speaker 1: and thought that if I make myself bigger, then I 388 00:18:32,359 --> 00:18:34,720 Speaker 1: will not be hurt, which is what the yelling and 389 00:18:34,760 --> 00:18:37,040 Speaker 1: screaming and in the in the the attacking is about. 390 00:18:37,119 --> 00:18:39,359 Speaker 1: Like I feel small, so I need to make myself 391 00:18:39,359 --> 00:18:42,639 Speaker 1: as big as possible and threaten you to to feel safe. 392 00:18:42,760 --> 00:18:44,919 Speaker 1: And so we were in a dynamic that was really um, 393 00:18:45,440 --> 00:18:48,320 Speaker 1: you know, toxic and really volatile, and a lot of 394 00:18:48,480 --> 00:18:52,439 Speaker 1: terrible things happened, and you know, um, it's not one 395 00:18:52,520 --> 00:18:55,600 Speaker 1: of my product moments in my life. I recognized the 396 00:18:55,720 --> 00:18:58,160 Speaker 1: ways in which I played into that dynamic, the ways 397 00:18:58,200 --> 00:19:00,760 Speaker 1: in which I could have left. But I also see 398 00:19:00,800 --> 00:19:03,760 Speaker 1: how my trauma kept me engaged it was a really 399 00:19:03,840 --> 00:19:06,359 Speaker 1: difficult time for me. I realized how much me and 400 00:19:06,480 --> 00:19:08,920 Speaker 1: him were living in shame and how that shame was 401 00:19:09,000 --> 00:19:12,160 Speaker 1: propelling that entire dynamic. And I often tell the story 402 00:19:12,240 --> 00:19:14,879 Speaker 1: too that, like, I started going to therapy, and I 403 00:19:15,000 --> 00:19:17,920 Speaker 1: never forget the biggest shift that changed that relationship was 404 00:19:17,960 --> 00:19:21,320 Speaker 1: when I was in therapy and she sat down and 405 00:19:21,480 --> 00:19:22,960 Speaker 1: she asked me to close my eyes and go through 406 00:19:22,960 --> 00:19:25,040 Speaker 1: this practice where she was like, I want you to 407 00:19:25,760 --> 00:19:28,040 Speaker 1: imagine yourself as a little child and what you're feeling 408 00:19:28,160 --> 00:19:30,680 Speaker 1: right now as a little child in yourself. And I 409 00:19:30,760 --> 00:19:33,119 Speaker 1: saw myself as this little child who was this kind 410 00:19:33,160 --> 00:19:36,280 Speaker 1: of crying in the corner, who was just really hurt 411 00:19:36,560 --> 00:19:40,520 Speaker 1: and scared and afraid. She instructed me to imagine myself 412 00:19:40,560 --> 00:19:42,399 Speaker 1: as an adult going to pick up that child and 413 00:19:42,520 --> 00:19:47,280 Speaker 1: protect that child, and protecting that child from the experience 414 00:19:47,320 --> 00:19:50,040 Speaker 1: that we're having, which in my vision was that person's temper, 415 00:19:50,200 --> 00:19:55,080 Speaker 1: that person's volatility, that person's rage. And I imagine myself 416 00:19:55,119 --> 00:19:57,359 Speaker 1: standing up to that person, and as I did that, 417 00:19:57,520 --> 00:20:01,200 Speaker 1: that person's face faded into my father's face, which was 418 00:20:01,840 --> 00:20:04,399 Speaker 1: such a deep psychological thing for me, like because it 419 00:20:04,520 --> 00:20:06,920 Speaker 1: was really showing the ways in which I was reliving 420 00:20:07,000 --> 00:20:09,640 Speaker 1: the pattern that has seen imprinted, where I was trying 421 00:20:09,680 --> 00:20:11,240 Speaker 1: to please a man the way I try to please 422 00:20:11,320 --> 00:20:13,240 Speaker 1: my father, as opposed to knowing this man needs to 423 00:20:13,240 --> 00:20:16,920 Speaker 1: get help, that it's not about me. What are some 424 00:20:17,280 --> 00:20:20,920 Speaker 1: reasons you see people make, rationality make to stay in 425 00:20:21,000 --> 00:20:23,960 Speaker 1: these cycles. There are so many reasons that people stay 426 00:20:24,119 --> 00:20:26,960 Speaker 1: in abusive relationships, and they're all connected to so many 427 00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:32,359 Speaker 1: different things, from capitalism to economics, to fear, to real desirability, 428 00:20:32,440 --> 00:20:34,920 Speaker 1: to to their own kind of psyche and the things 429 00:20:34,960 --> 00:20:38,400 Speaker 1: they're navigating. And I think that um for folks who 430 00:20:38,600 --> 00:20:40,440 Speaker 1: you know, if you're listening and you find yourself in 431 00:20:40,480 --> 00:20:42,840 Speaker 1: that space, because I've been there, you know, and I've 432 00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:44,399 Speaker 1: been in that space when I ask myself why am 433 00:20:44,440 --> 00:20:47,440 Speaker 1: I still here? And and having an intellectual understanding of 434 00:20:47,480 --> 00:20:49,880 Speaker 1: why I'm still here but still but like you should leave, 435 00:20:49,920 --> 00:20:52,159 Speaker 1: but still there because my body is in it and 436 00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:54,920 Speaker 1: I don't have community support to help move me beyond it. 437 00:20:55,520 --> 00:20:57,840 Speaker 1: You know. I think that like one thing that happens 438 00:20:57,880 --> 00:21:00,080 Speaker 1: for a lot of folks who are going through that 439 00:21:00,200 --> 00:21:02,000 Speaker 1: and trying to figure their way through it and trying 440 00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:04,000 Speaker 1: to find out how love feels for them. And then 441 00:21:04,040 --> 00:21:06,000 Speaker 1: they get abandoned by their friends and their loved ones, 442 00:21:06,080 --> 00:21:08,679 Speaker 1: and they get isolated further by that person in that relationship, 443 00:21:08,760 --> 00:21:11,199 Speaker 1: which is not helpful. What a lot of us who 444 00:21:11,320 --> 00:21:14,119 Speaker 1: are in those dynamics needs sometimes someone to be present 445 00:21:14,200 --> 00:21:18,320 Speaker 1: with us, not from a place of shaming, but from 446 00:21:18,320 --> 00:21:20,720 Speaker 1: a place of this is happening, and I love you 447 00:21:20,800 --> 00:21:22,200 Speaker 1: and I care for you. I'm going to be here 448 00:21:22,240 --> 00:21:24,959 Speaker 1: for you. I want different for you, and I'm here 449 00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:26,800 Speaker 1: to support you and how that could happen when you're 450 00:21:26,840 --> 00:21:29,040 Speaker 1: ready or however we can support you in that piece. 451 00:21:29,440 --> 00:21:31,040 Speaker 1: I got that at some point, but I didn't have 452 00:21:31,200 --> 00:21:33,080 Speaker 1: that for a lot part of that journey, you know. 453 00:21:33,640 --> 00:21:35,000 Speaker 1: And I think that a lot of our folks who 454 00:21:35,040 --> 00:21:37,520 Speaker 1: are struggling don't have that for a lot of reasons. 455 00:21:38,000 --> 00:21:40,240 Speaker 1: And the risk of being killed, particularly for women. I 456 00:21:40,440 --> 00:21:42,480 Speaker 1: don't have a lot of data for that for queer 457 00:21:42,560 --> 00:21:44,520 Speaker 1: men and trans women, but like for since women, we 458 00:21:44,600 --> 00:21:46,200 Speaker 1: know that, like the likelihood of getting killed after you 459 00:21:46,280 --> 00:21:49,119 Speaker 1: leave goes up, the threat of violence goes up, right, 460 00:21:49,240 --> 00:21:52,119 Speaker 1: So there's like this real deep seated fear. And I 461 00:21:52,160 --> 00:21:53,919 Speaker 1: think that like when we shift the focus onto why 462 00:21:53,960 --> 00:21:56,440 Speaker 1: does he do that? And why do his community allow 463 00:21:56,560 --> 00:21:59,280 Speaker 1: him to do that, because we all know folks and 464 00:21:59,359 --> 00:22:01,760 Speaker 1: we have known elks who are like he is abusive 465 00:22:01,880 --> 00:22:06,360 Speaker 1: emotionally physically, and we don't. We're still learning how to intervene, 466 00:22:06,400 --> 00:22:08,080 Speaker 1: how to support, like a lot of times, and you know, 467 00:22:08,240 --> 00:22:10,200 Speaker 1: I've done a lot of these kind of like transform 468 00:22:10,280 --> 00:22:12,400 Speaker 1: of justice spaces, and people think that, like, I want 469 00:22:12,440 --> 00:22:13,960 Speaker 1: to be loyal to my friends, so I want to 470 00:22:14,040 --> 00:22:16,520 Speaker 1: deny that he's really capable of doing that. And I 471 00:22:16,640 --> 00:22:18,520 Speaker 1: have to tell people that, like, being loyal to your 472 00:22:18,600 --> 00:22:21,359 Speaker 1: friend is saying I love you, I'm here for you, 473 00:22:21,440 --> 00:22:23,680 Speaker 1: and I'm here to help you reveal your behaviors and 474 00:22:23,720 --> 00:22:26,200 Speaker 1: your choices and help you stop any patterns that are 475 00:22:26,200 --> 00:22:28,359 Speaker 1: creating harm for you, are for anyone else. And that 476 00:22:28,560 --> 00:22:31,639 Speaker 1: is loyalty and that is love. It's not denying that 477 00:22:31,800 --> 00:22:33,840 Speaker 1: you're that, oh he's a good person. It's not about 478 00:22:33,840 --> 00:22:36,159 Speaker 1: good and bad people. It's about people who have coping 479 00:22:36,240 --> 00:22:40,119 Speaker 1: strategies and and tactics they have developed to survive our 480 00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:42,560 Speaker 1: cope with a variety of different things. And I think 481 00:22:42,560 --> 00:22:44,040 Speaker 1: we need to we need to help people understand that 482 00:22:44,119 --> 00:22:47,920 Speaker 1: loyalty is intervention is saying I see this and I 483 00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:50,520 Speaker 1: want you to stop this behavior as opposed to like 484 00:22:50,640 --> 00:22:52,280 Speaker 1: you're too good and you can never do that, which 485 00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:57,119 Speaker 1: is not helpful. I love this idea of accountability as 486 00:22:57,200 --> 00:23:01,280 Speaker 1: loyalty because Yolo is beyond loyal to community, to his family, 487 00:23:01,480 --> 00:23:04,840 Speaker 1: to himself. I wanted to know more about Being and 488 00:23:04,920 --> 00:23:07,240 Speaker 1: why he decided to create the space and show up 489 00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:12,000 Speaker 1: with love and support in this way. So, you know, 490 00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:14,360 Speaker 1: as the executive director of Being, which is the Black 491 00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:17,480 Speaker 1: Emotional Mental Health Collective, you know, our organization is really 492 00:23:17,560 --> 00:23:20,119 Speaker 1: focused on mental health broadly, but we definitely address, of 493 00:23:20,160 --> 00:23:23,240 Speaker 1: course the intersections of HIV or substanties of transphobia and 494 00:23:23,240 --> 00:23:27,080 Speaker 1: all these different dimensions you know UM. My first work 495 00:23:27,160 --> 00:23:29,399 Speaker 1: was in queer communities doing any kind of pure counseling 496 00:23:29,440 --> 00:23:32,960 Speaker 1: or counseling work, and so of course HIV, you know, 497 00:23:33,400 --> 00:23:37,040 Speaker 1: UM was always a present topic. And one of the 498 00:23:37,080 --> 00:23:39,160 Speaker 1: things that was always a constant theme was the ways 499 00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:42,080 Speaker 1: in which people who were UM, either newly diagnosed or 500 00:23:42,160 --> 00:23:46,320 Speaker 1: navigating UM living with HIV felt that living with HIV 501 00:23:46,960 --> 00:23:50,280 Speaker 1: diminished their worth, of their value as human beings, made 502 00:23:50,320 --> 00:23:53,800 Speaker 1: them less than and that was that was hard for 503 00:23:53,920 --> 00:23:56,760 Speaker 1: me because one of my core wounds is around worthiness, 504 00:23:56,960 --> 00:24:00,479 Speaker 1: around being good enough and less than and and um 505 00:24:00,880 --> 00:24:05,760 Speaker 1: seeing how that belief and the HIV stigma continue to 506 00:24:05,800 --> 00:24:10,920 Speaker 1: perpetuate that belief, it really became like activating peace for 507 00:24:11,040 --> 00:24:13,600 Speaker 1: me to be, for my friends and myself, for my community, 508 00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:16,080 Speaker 1: to really change the narrative that like, you know, living 509 00:24:16,119 --> 00:24:17,760 Speaker 1: with HIV and worthy, right, Like you know what I 510 00:24:17,800 --> 00:24:19,560 Speaker 1: mean that like that this this is not a reflection 511 00:24:19,640 --> 00:24:21,920 Speaker 1: of our worth or our value. This is a reflection 512 00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:24,080 Speaker 1: of the ignorance of the world that we live in, right, 513 00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:28,400 Speaker 1: And I think that would like seeing so many young 514 00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:31,960 Speaker 1: queer people that I've lost because otherwise the stigma talked 515 00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:34,280 Speaker 1: into their lives, weren't valuable, and they stopped taking medication, 516 00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:36,800 Speaker 1: and they stopped caring for themselves. Seeing the ways in 517 00:24:36,920 --> 00:24:40,720 Speaker 1: which it had just um disrupted so much opportunities for 518 00:24:40,800 --> 00:24:42,920 Speaker 1: love and intimacy and other queer folks life in my 519 00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:45,280 Speaker 1: own life, you know, it was always pivotal for me, 520 00:24:45,359 --> 00:24:47,680 Speaker 1: for me to make sure that we are always explicit 521 00:24:47,960 --> 00:24:50,800 Speaker 1: about educating around HIV and AIDS and supportive people living 522 00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:53,879 Speaker 1: with HIV around the real mental health challenges that the 523 00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:57,080 Speaker 1: stigma brings in this country. You know, you you as 524 00:24:57,119 --> 00:25:00,119 Speaker 1: I'm thinking about what I'm taking away from our our 525 00:25:00,520 --> 00:25:03,680 Speaker 1: conversation today, it just brings you to this idea that 526 00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:06,960 Speaker 1: you know, young Zach, little Zach who was so afraid 527 00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:09,840 Speaker 1: of people seeing me, seeing me Swiss, or seeing me 528 00:25:10,119 --> 00:25:12,480 Speaker 1: like beat you, black and white space, all these things 529 00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:15,000 Speaker 1: that like I wish I could go back and say no, no, 530 00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:17,560 Speaker 1: be seen, be your full self, show up, and that's 531 00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:19,880 Speaker 1: where you will find happiness. And it feels like your 532 00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:24,359 Speaker 1: work is so much about telling people that, sure, you 533 00:25:24,440 --> 00:25:26,720 Speaker 1: may have been through domestic found situation, but like, show 534 00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:28,840 Speaker 1: up and be seen in that. Sure you may have 535 00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:31,760 Speaker 1: an HP, positive starters, show up, it's okay, it's okay, 536 00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:34,720 Speaker 1: it's okay, Okay, you are okay. And I just want 537 00:25:34,760 --> 00:25:38,920 Speaker 1: to thank you for that. Talking with Yolo such a 538 00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:42,320 Speaker 1: breath of fresh air, because despite everything he's been through, 539 00:25:42,520 --> 00:25:45,240 Speaker 1: all his work, all the support he brings to others 540 00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:47,800 Speaker 1: that are in dark and desolate places, he is still 541 00:25:48,040 --> 00:25:53,520 Speaker 1: so hopeful. I'm hopeful because I know that a lot 542 00:25:53,600 --> 00:25:55,840 Speaker 1: of us the world that we want is here in 543 00:25:55,960 --> 00:25:58,399 Speaker 1: small pockets. I'm hoping that we can make it bigger 544 00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:00,840 Speaker 1: and larger. And I and I know I've seen I've 545 00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:03,680 Speaker 1: had the opportunity to be a community across the country 546 00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:06,640 Speaker 1: with so many black and brown healers doing dope work, 547 00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:10,080 Speaker 1: I know, I know the other world as possible. I 548 00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:12,720 Speaker 1: feel it. It's here, and so I know that for 549 00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:15,040 Speaker 1: black queer men, for black non binary folks, with black 550 00:26:15,080 --> 00:26:16,920 Speaker 1: trans women, we can feel differently in our bodies so 551 00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:19,680 Speaker 1: we can be loved and supported. It takes practice, and 552 00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:22,399 Speaker 1: it takes failure, and it takes effort, But I know 553 00:26:22,600 --> 00:26:24,320 Speaker 1: it because I've seen it and I've lived it, and 554 00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:26,639 Speaker 1: I'm a product of it, you know. And would it 555 00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:29,280 Speaker 1: be the purple galaxy that you got right and think about? 556 00:26:31,400 --> 00:26:33,480 Speaker 1: We'll see if it's maybe maybe it's purple galaxy. I 557 00:26:33,520 --> 00:26:35,639 Speaker 1: don't know what it is, but I imagine it's a 558 00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:37,440 Speaker 1: lot of different visions from a lot of different folks 559 00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:40,280 Speaker 1: that we just kind of share, co craft and co create. 560 00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:42,320 Speaker 1: For me as a visual person that I did that 561 00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:47,240 Speaker 1: queer black freedom equity, you know, just peace is a 562 00:26:47,280 --> 00:26:54,160 Speaker 1: purple galaxy. I think it's a beautiful idea. As a writer, philosopher, 563 00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:57,520 Speaker 1: and community leader, you'll creates space with so much love 564 00:26:57,600 --> 00:27:00,520 Speaker 1: and care. But it's his story that stands out the 565 00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:03,200 Speaker 1: most because he was raised with these values that I 566 00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:05,960 Speaker 1: think a lot of us were raised in with people 567 00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:08,560 Speaker 1: and in homes that try their best to protect us, 568 00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:11,639 Speaker 1: and it's interesting to see that despite those efforts, for 569 00:27:11,800 --> 00:27:14,359 Speaker 1: better or worse, he was still hurt in ways that 570 00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:17,240 Speaker 1: are terrible, in ways that no person should be hurt. 571 00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:20,560 Speaker 1: But although this pain marked him deeply, I love the 572 00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:23,440 Speaker 1: idea that we can touch others through our own stories, 573 00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:26,800 Speaker 1: even if they're not pretty. Gull's work has reached and 574 00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:29,399 Speaker 1: connected with people far outside the l g B t 575 00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:33,320 Speaker 1: Q plus community, and it shows that the issues of violence, pain, 576 00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:36,720 Speaker 1: mental and physical health are not unique to a specific group, 577 00:27:37,119 --> 00:27:39,840 Speaker 1: and it offers a new idea or way of thinking 578 00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:44,560 Speaker 1: that if pain can be this universal, this familiar, then maybe, 579 00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:52,520 Speaker 1: just maybe the healing journey can be similar to We 580 00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:54,720 Speaker 1: are so excited for you to be here for season 581 00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:57,480 Speaker 1: two of In the Deep Stories That Shape Us. Keep 582 00:27:57,520 --> 00:28:00,240 Speaker 1: coming back every other week and taking these power full 583 00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:02,919 Speaker 1: stories of Black and Latins people as they take us 584 00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:06,240 Speaker 1: on their own healing journeys. In the Deep Stories That 585 00:28:06,320 --> 00:28:09,800 Speaker 1: Shape Us is executive produced by myself, Zach Stafford, and 586 00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:13,120 Speaker 1: Ivan Chian and mastered by James Foster and our writer 587 00:28:13,280 --> 00:28:16,119 Speaker 1: is Yvette Lopez. A shout out to our guest Yolo 588 00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:17,080 Speaker 1: Achille Robinson,