WEBVTT - Thou Shalt Ignore Thy Smartphone 0:00:01.560 --> 0:00:08.840 Hi, I'm Daniel Scheffler, and this is everywhere Today's travel commandment, 0:00:09.760 --> 0:00:22.079 thou shalt ignore thy smartphone as much as I rely 0:00:22.120 --> 0:00:26.119 on my smartphone for you know, pretty much everything all 0:00:26.120 --> 0:00:30.120 the time. They are these instances where I think I 0:00:30.120 --> 0:00:33.000 would just like to throw this device into the Hudson 0:00:33.120 --> 0:00:37.440 River and live a simple life without it. I know 0:00:37.479 --> 0:00:40.920 I'm not alone when I say this. Now, let's imagine 0:00:41.000 --> 0:00:43.680 the phone free life of a travel writer like me. 0:00:44.400 --> 0:00:47.240 First off, maybe I should check if those old school 0:00:47.280 --> 0:00:51.879 internet cafes still operate all over the globe. Next up, 0:00:52.120 --> 0:00:56.840 imagine me slipping bundles of printed boarding passes around. I'd 0:00:56.840 --> 0:00:59.680 actually have to hail a real yellow cab without an 0:00:59.720 --> 0:01:02.880 umer app, so that will be something old that's new again. 0:01:03.560 --> 0:01:05.800 But how will I tell my husband we've bought it, 0:01:06.080 --> 0:01:08.840 and now we're pushing back, and now we're taxing, and 0:01:08.920 --> 0:01:13.440 now we're taking off. I'd have to save my hotel 0:01:13.480 --> 0:01:17.160 addresses and reservations in print them out, like my great 0:01:17.200 --> 0:01:21.200 aunt used to do in this giant leather folder which 0:01:21.200 --> 0:01:24.720 she carried everywhere with her on trips. Or maybe I 0:01:24.760 --> 0:01:28.600 need a very chic, oversized lanyard with all my paperwork 0:01:29.319 --> 0:01:32.000 then again, I could get nicely lost on purpose with 0:01:32.240 --> 0:01:35.959 just a paper map or even no map. Believe me, 0:01:36.040 --> 0:01:38.560 a little part of me finds all of this rather thrilling. 0:01:39.280 --> 0:01:44.120 Let's call it low tech high tech. I think this 0:01:44.240 --> 0:01:47.559 all the time. Technology will save us, but not before 0:01:47.560 --> 0:01:50.920 it destroys us. When it comes to travel, my feelings 0:01:50.960 --> 0:01:55.360 are quite specific as someone who's not on social media, 0:01:55.760 --> 0:01:59.680 and yes, you heard me correctly, no social media whatsoever. 0:02:00.920 --> 0:02:05.600 I happen to now have an everywhere podcast Instagram page, 0:02:06.040 --> 0:02:10.959 but hey, that's just work. Recently, my high school brother 0:02:11.040 --> 0:02:16.080 said to me, maybe you don't exist, and I really 0:02:16.160 --> 0:02:19.240 like that. I did social when it came out years ago. 0:02:19.680 --> 0:02:22.560 I used it, abused it, and then for about ten 0:02:22.639 --> 0:02:26.040 years or so, I've cut it all off cold turkey. 0:02:26.760 --> 0:02:30.720 My compulsive nature and my deep desire for real in 0:02:30.760 --> 0:02:35.640 the moment right now experiences were simply too strong to deny, 0:02:35.880 --> 0:02:39.840 and I'm a happier human for it. Recently I counted 0:02:40.080 --> 0:02:45.640 twenty travel writers, slash bloggers, slash influences who died in 0:02:45.720 --> 0:02:50.480 ten from trying to capture the best image for their 0:02:50.520 --> 0:02:55.720 social channels. Nearly two dozen people died for what exactly. 0:02:57.200 --> 0:03:00.960 Every time someone shows me the idyllic beach photo, or 0:03:01.000 --> 0:03:05.160 that picture perfect yoga position photo on top of a camel, 0:03:05.760 --> 0:03:09.560 or another plate of over stylized food. You know the 0:03:09.600 --> 0:03:14.200 ones I just think, were you actually there? Or were 0:03:14.240 --> 0:03:18.760 you just posing? Sometimes at a work lunch, when I'm 0:03:18.800 --> 0:03:22.160 just about to tuck into my salad and I'm starving, 0:03:22.560 --> 0:03:25.560 I get told to wait as it's being photographed by 0:03:25.600 --> 0:03:28.840 a fucking influencer. What kind of life is this that 0:03:28.960 --> 0:03:34.600 every moment needs to be memorialized? I have to wonder. Luckily, 0:03:34.639 --> 0:03:37.440 I've had some practice. Spending a month in Japan with 0:03:37.760 --> 0:03:41.960 Mother showed me just how to do less phone and 0:03:42.120 --> 0:03:46.920 more life in the now, the right now. So let 0:03:46.920 --> 0:03:51.440 me tell you about Mother. I often describe her as 0:03:51.480 --> 0:03:56.880 the sweetest, smartest, funniest, happiest aunt everyone should wish for. 0:03:57.800 --> 0:04:00.560 If she was a believer of reincarnation, I'd say she 0:04:00.640 --> 0:04:03.640 was in her last life, having learned every less impossible, 0:04:04.160 --> 0:04:08.840 having finally reached that evasive, sneaky thing they call enlightenment. 0:04:09.960 --> 0:04:13.240 She wants for nothing, she judges absolutely nobody, and she 0:04:13.360 --> 0:04:20.400 lives very simply. It's beyond inspiring. But more importantly certain 0:04:20.520 --> 0:04:23.920 for me is that she is the type of traveler who, 0:04:23.960 --> 0:04:26.359 after she breaks her foot on the Otter Trail in 0:04:26.400 --> 0:04:30.719 South Africa, just keeps going. She walks the remaining twenty 0:04:30.760 --> 0:04:35.520 miles without a complaint. If she wasn't so skinny, I 0:04:35.560 --> 0:04:38.080 think she would have made it big in the Mossad, 0:04:38.279 --> 0:04:42.080 Israel's special forces. She's also the type of traveler who's 0:04:42.240 --> 0:04:45.239 not interested in driving around cities and a fancy black 0:04:45.279 --> 0:04:48.600 car seeing things from behind a window. Nope. She puts 0:04:48.600 --> 0:04:52.040 on a pair of sneakers, walks every block, every nook 0:04:52.040 --> 0:04:54.840 and cranny. Plus she greets and chats to everyone she 0:04:54.920 --> 0:04:58.760 comes across, from the president of an African state I've 0:04:58.800 --> 0:05:02.040 never heard of to the Mr. Delivery guy holding her 0:05:02.080 --> 0:05:05.640 take out. So of course Japan is perfect for her. 0:05:06.360 --> 0:05:09.800 Everyone is as polite as she is, and walking all 0:05:09.839 --> 0:05:12.200 over is so much part of the culture that she 0:05:12.240 --> 0:05:16.719 fits right in. Although she towers over everyone, she graciously 0:05:16.839 --> 0:05:20.599 bows right down to chat. Traveling with Mother is always 0:05:20.600 --> 0:05:24.720 the most fun any human can have. She's up for anything, like, 0:05:25.480 --> 0:05:27.680 let's not google this at all, but go and find 0:05:27.680 --> 0:05:31.120 out where the birthplace of Pearls could be. And we did. 0:05:31.720 --> 0:05:35.080 It's a little prefecture called Mia, just a few hours 0:05:35.080 --> 0:05:38.320 south of Tokyo, where only female divers were entrusted to 0:05:38.400 --> 0:05:42.200 find pearls. I see how Mother's eyes are filled with 0:05:42.279 --> 0:05:45.560 magic as she learns how to use a vending machine 0:05:45.600 --> 0:05:49.039 to purchase anything imaginable. So, of course we turn this 0:05:49.080 --> 0:05:52.320 into a game, something that almost every situation calls for. 0:05:53.040 --> 0:05:56.000 It started with what is the strangest item we could 0:05:56.000 --> 0:05:59.200 get from a vending machine. I of course thought I 0:05:59.200 --> 0:06:01.679 had one when I found a vending machine with little 0:06:01.720 --> 0:06:06.000 doors revealing puppies, but Mother one upped me when she 0:06:06.120 --> 0:06:12.320 discovered live goldfish, spiders, and even pet snakes. We were 0:06:12.320 --> 0:06:15.680 really not into the dirty underwear vending machines or the 0:06:15.720 --> 0:06:20.960 ones dispensing dry ice, but Mother won our competition hands 0:06:21.000 --> 0:06:24.560 down with her unearthing of a vending machine that dispenses 0:06:26.080 --> 0:06:29.200 doggy wigs. Because you know that day when you're out 0:06:29.240 --> 0:06:32.400 and about and your pop urgently needs a costume change 0:06:32.600 --> 0:06:36.479 or maybe a disguise. We didn't tweet about this or 0:06:36.560 --> 0:06:40.640 instagram this moment. We just saved it just for ourselves, 0:06:41.880 --> 0:06:45.240 and it was so indulgent. Well, we really got into 0:06:45.279 --> 0:06:48.800 the vending machine thing. We ate entire six course meals 0:06:48.880 --> 0:06:52.440 under bridges in Tokyo, all from vending machines. We also 0:06:52.480 --> 0:06:56.520 managed to buy an enormous inflatable pool swan. By mistake, 0:06:57.400 --> 0:07:01.240 Mother just wanted a new iPhone charger, but she was thrilled. Nevertheless, 0:07:02.520 --> 0:07:05.360 at some point in Kyoto, since it was freezing one day, 0:07:05.760 --> 0:07:10.120 we bought matching Harajuku girls pink sweaters with thirteen bunnies 0:07:10.120 --> 0:07:13.040 sewn onto them. I got an extra large and she 0:07:13.160 --> 0:07:17.320 got a small. We were twinsies in guess what. We 0:07:17.400 --> 0:07:20.320 didn't need to photograph this. We just lived it and 0:07:20.440 --> 0:07:24.800 laughed it. There was no Facebook. Mother rocked her new look. 0:07:25.440 --> 0:07:29.040 It wasn't really my color. Besides for visiting some of 0:07:29.040 --> 0:07:32.240 the oldest temples in Kyoto with Mother or eating our 0:07:32.560 --> 0:07:37.600 palid cleanser sherbet from our personal three foot high ship, 0:07:38.040 --> 0:07:41.880 done table side out of sculptured ice. We also soaked 0:07:41.960 --> 0:07:45.600 in ancient Rio Khan's mud baths and then sat on 0:07:45.880 --> 0:07:51.000 tiny wooden chairs getting scrubbed by a very thorough innkeeper. 0:07:51.840 --> 0:07:55.120 I think at some point we also glimpsed the Royal Princess, 0:07:55.160 --> 0:07:57.760 and I think she was actually holding a Starbucks coffee. 0:07:59.080 --> 0:08:01.760 What most love is When Mother and I wanted to 0:08:01.760 --> 0:08:06.200 get fitted for kimonos in Tokyo. Old family run kimono 0:08:06.240 --> 0:08:11.200 shops are all over, easy to spot with kimono clad mannequins. Outside, 0:08:12.360 --> 0:08:14.400 we found an old boutique that was close to the 0:08:14.400 --> 0:08:18.560 Palace gardens. The owner was a smiley woman in a glamorous, 0:08:18.760 --> 0:08:21.760 light purple kimono, whom I told that I wanted to 0:08:21.800 --> 0:08:25.080 be fitted with mother right away, she grabbed my hand 0:08:25.160 --> 0:08:29.360 and invited us in. I'm pretty particular about mostly wearing black, 0:08:29.680 --> 0:08:32.240 whereas Mother runs down a color wheel once in a while, 0:08:32.960 --> 0:08:35.760 so we settled on black for me and dove gray 0:08:35.840 --> 0:08:39.440 for her. When I learned that the word kimono means 0:08:39.440 --> 0:08:42.679 something that is worn, the literal meaning made me want 0:08:42.720 --> 0:08:47.120 to wear it so much more. Supposedly, there are nine 0:08:47.120 --> 0:08:52.119 types of popular kimonos. Mother was into the summers style yukata, 0:08:52.679 --> 0:08:56.400 the most casual style of kimono, whereas I settled for 0:08:56.440 --> 0:08:59.880 a samurai style kimono with an obie, which is the 0:09:00.000 --> 0:09:03.560 belt that holds it all together. Of course, fitting a 0:09:03.640 --> 0:09:07.920 kimono is a leisurely a fair, a long chat about 0:09:08.000 --> 0:09:11.400 to pattern or not to pattern, to clash or not 0:09:11.520 --> 0:09:15.760 to clash, to parasol or not to parasol. And then 0:09:15.800 --> 0:09:19.400 these lashings of wisdom about which attires appropriate for which 0:09:19.440 --> 0:09:25.360 social obligation. Apparently I skewed towards very casual, basically living 0:09:25.480 --> 0:09:30.160 a pool party life with no umbrella. But attire is 0:09:30.200 --> 0:09:32.439 not just what you put on your body. It's about 0:09:32.440 --> 0:09:37.160 a meditation. It's about an observance. A lovely march, a 0:09:37.240 --> 0:09:40.400 tea ceremony unfolded in front of our very eyes, all 0:09:40.480 --> 0:09:44.679 forming part of this choreography. And at some point fabrics 0:09:44.720 --> 0:09:47.760 and robes were whizzing by, and the next thing you're 0:09:47.760 --> 0:09:52.480 standing on a too, Tommy Matt fully garbed. Once more. 0:09:52.960 --> 0:09:55.880 We didn't have a phone or a camera to commemorate 0:09:55.960 --> 0:10:00.560 this moment. We just stood there, dressed and be next 0:10:00.559 --> 0:10:05.480 to each other, hugging, smiling. Mother not one for tears 0:10:05.800 --> 0:10:09.920 may have wiped a little droplet away at this very moment. I, 0:10:10.040 --> 0:10:15.319 of course waterworks, So naturally I had to think, is 0:10:15.400 --> 0:10:18.680 this appropriation of culture that is not mine? Am I 0:10:18.720 --> 0:10:23.920 being offensive or insensitive? Or am I sincerely and absolutely 0:10:24.040 --> 0:10:29.440 celebrating and honoring a beautiful custom. My kimono maker told 0:10:29.440 --> 0:10:33.640 me it's all about intention. It's not the one but 0:10:33.760 --> 0:10:37.680 the how. I explained to our maestro that I lived 0:10:37.679 --> 0:10:41.120 in America, and Mother lived across a very large pond, 0:10:41.840 --> 0:10:43.480 and I just don't get to see her as much 0:10:43.480 --> 0:10:46.880 as I'd like to. And now Mother just isn't so 0:10:46.960 --> 0:10:50.640 young anymore. We plan to put on our kimonos and 0:10:50.679 --> 0:10:53.480 call each other on Skype every week. So there we 0:10:53.520 --> 0:10:56.920 are on different parts of the globe, chatting over a 0:10:56.960 --> 0:11:00.320 cup of tea while in our beautiful garments. Me for 0:11:00.440 --> 0:11:04.080 a morning cup, Mother for an afternoon treat, and that 0:11:04.120 --> 0:11:07.160 would be our little connection in the world, just hours 0:11:07.800 --> 0:11:11.840 nobody else's, and no proof was necessary to know in 0:11:11.880 --> 0:11:16.320 our hearts that this really happened, something seemingly so small 0:11:16.360 --> 0:11:22.320 and perhaps insignificant, tethering us just a little more. So 0:11:22.400 --> 0:11:24.560 let's take a breath there, and we'll be right back 0:11:24.559 --> 0:11:27.079 with my friend Holly Fry to give us a little 0:11:27.120 --> 0:11:31.840 historical context right after the break. Thanks for sticking around. 0:11:32.720 --> 0:11:39.720 Here's more of everywhere. Yes, my love, I'm sorry I 0:11:39.720 --> 0:11:41.960 didn't get you a kimono when I was in Japan, 0:11:42.600 --> 0:11:45.480 but we weren't friends then, So now when I returned 0:11:45.520 --> 0:11:47.840 to Japan, I will bring you a kimono and we 0:11:47.880 --> 0:11:51.520 can have a friendship kimono. I need to build a 0:11:51.559 --> 0:11:54.319 time machine go back, get me the kimono when you 0:11:54.400 --> 0:11:56.360 got your original one, or it's just not going to 0:11:56.440 --> 0:12:01.160 have any meaning. Fine, I need a minute to get 0:12:01.280 --> 0:12:04.720 right on it. I love kimono because they're beautiful, and 0:12:04.760 --> 0:12:08.079 also as someone who sews a lot, I appreciate them 0:12:08.080 --> 0:12:10.720 and maybe a different way than normal people would. But 0:12:10.720 --> 0:12:13.440 I thought we would talk a little bit about kimono 0:12:13.520 --> 0:12:17.679 and their history and then why that is relevant to 0:12:17.760 --> 0:12:22.280 your story about your mom. So, up until the High 0:12:22.360 --> 0:12:25.760 End period, the kimono not so much in Japan. It 0:12:25.840 --> 0:12:29.400 was more like um separate you know, separate tops and 0:12:29.400 --> 0:12:33.840 bottoms or trousers or skirts. There were one piece garments, 0:12:33.880 --> 0:12:35.800 but they weren't quite the same as we would like 0:12:35.840 --> 0:12:38.720 look at and see a kimono. And then during the 0:12:38.760 --> 0:12:40.520 High End period, which is quite long, it was from 0:12:40.520 --> 0:12:45.040 seven to eleven ninety two, they developed during that several 0:12:45.120 --> 0:12:48.720 hundred years. And what I love about kimono and what 0:12:48.800 --> 0:12:50.880 to me is really beautiful and kind of a nice 0:12:50.920 --> 0:12:55.199 example in general of Japanese design, is that unlike if 0:12:55.240 --> 0:12:57.839 you look at garments, for example, that come down through 0:12:57.840 --> 0:13:01.480 the European tradition, particularly after the Middle Ages, where there's 0:13:01.520 --> 0:13:04.720 lots of tailoring the seams are fussy. They're they're sewn 0:13:04.760 --> 0:13:08.120 and cut so that they will mold to your body. 0:13:08.320 --> 0:13:11.600 But in Japan, the development of how they cut and 0:13:11.640 --> 0:13:15.480 make these clothes, everything is a straight line. They're just 0:13:15.920 --> 0:13:18.680 designed in pieces so beautifully that they wrap around you 0:13:18.760 --> 0:13:21.800 perfectly and they fall perfectly, and it takes advantage of 0:13:21.840 --> 0:13:25.760 the fabric's natural beauty. To me is like brilliant design. 0:13:25.320 --> 0:13:28.520 It's it's very much in line with the idea of 0:13:29.640 --> 0:13:31.719 which is why I love them, like for a lot 0:13:31.760 --> 0:13:34.840 of people that so, making a kimono is really fun 0:13:34.920 --> 0:13:37.520 because you can kind of really indulge in just the 0:13:37.559 --> 0:13:39.800 beauty of the fabric and you're not worried so much 0:13:39.800 --> 0:13:42.720 about like matching up seam lines and stuff. Everything has 0:13:42.760 --> 0:13:44.520 to match, of course, but it's just simpler. It's a 0:13:44.559 --> 0:13:49.840 simpler design from the interior. But really there's this interesting 0:13:49.880 --> 0:13:52.760 development that happens after the high end period, so the 0:13:52.800 --> 0:13:57.920 Kama Kuta period, which is eight, there's another big shift, 0:13:58.520 --> 0:14:01.120 and then the Moro Machi period. I probably pronouncing these 0:14:01.200 --> 0:14:04.400 names very terribly, so my apologies to any Japanese speakers 0:14:04.400 --> 0:14:08.880 in the audience. And at this point kimono started getting 0:14:08.920 --> 0:14:11.520 more and more colorful. This idea of a colorful garment 0:14:11.640 --> 0:14:16.080 came in. The color started to be important in terms 0:14:16.120 --> 0:14:19.680 of its symbolic meaning, like certain leaders would be associated 0:14:19.680 --> 0:14:22.520 with certain colors, so loyalty could be demonstrated by the 0:14:22.560 --> 0:14:25.120 selection of fabrics that were in your kimono, and also 0:14:25.400 --> 0:14:29.600 um on the battlefield, alliances were often identified by color, 0:14:29.760 --> 0:14:33.000 which isn't unusual now. I mean, even every every nation 0:14:33.080 --> 0:14:35.720 has its military that has its uniform, so it's kind 0:14:35.720 --> 0:14:37.960 of similar to that. But these tended to be much 0:14:38.000 --> 0:14:41.160 more colorful, and so you will sometimes hear historians talk 0:14:41.200 --> 0:14:45.840 about ancient Japanese battlefields as a very like wild visual 0:14:45.880 --> 0:14:49.200 display of just all of these colors coming together. And 0:14:49.240 --> 0:14:52.760 then in the Edo period things really started to become 0:14:52.800 --> 0:14:58.760 important in terms of kimono because one, there were several 0:14:58.760 --> 0:15:01.640 developments where there were several garments that developed along with 0:15:01.760 --> 0:15:05.640 the samurai tradition, and these became super important. The idea 0:15:05.680 --> 0:15:08.960 of presentation became more important than ever. The people that 0:15:09.040 --> 0:15:11.600 made kimono had to work so hard to keep up 0:15:11.640 --> 0:15:15.040 with all of the demands of like Similarly, still symbolic 0:15:15.080 --> 0:15:18.480 colors very important. This idea of looking very perfect and 0:15:18.640 --> 0:15:22.920 wearing like hakama, which are the split pants style garment, 0:15:24.040 --> 0:15:27.040 still using this straight cut method, but because they were 0:15:27.040 --> 0:15:29.440 having to churn out garments at a really fast rate, 0:15:30.080 --> 0:15:32.640 it really became an art form like people that could 0:15:32.680 --> 0:15:35.200 move very quickly, almost like when you watch a master 0:15:35.360 --> 0:15:37.320 folder do a piece of origami. It was like that, 0:15:37.360 --> 0:15:40.560 but clothing came out at the end. So kimono became 0:15:40.840 --> 0:15:43.160 more important than ever in terms of being a cultural 0:15:43.280 --> 0:15:46.400 item and a status symbol in a way to really 0:15:46.400 --> 0:15:49.400 like telegraph to the world who you were and who 0:15:49.440 --> 0:15:54.040 you were associated with. But nowadays kimono are not really 0:15:54.160 --> 0:15:56.000 the day to day garments that they once were in 0:15:56.080 --> 0:15:59.560 Japanese culture, and they're usually warrant for things like important 0:15:59.600 --> 0:16:04.600 celebrate sations or ceremonial days. But also there has become 0:16:04.640 --> 0:16:07.400 this growing thing where they share them with travelers, and 0:16:07.440 --> 0:16:09.200 that is a new form of income for people that 0:16:09.280 --> 0:16:13.360 make close which then becomes this sort of beautiful reflection 0:16:13.480 --> 0:16:16.920 like I I love that you talk in this episode 0:16:16.960 --> 0:16:21.200 about wondering whether you're appropriating culture in taking part in 0:16:21.360 --> 0:16:24.200 buying these things, But at the same time, like that's 0:16:24.240 --> 0:16:26.640 the way that that garment had to evolve so it 0:16:26.640 --> 0:16:29.640 could stay in the public consciousness, particularly on a global scale, 0:16:30.200 --> 0:16:33.800 and I just like that it become this item that 0:16:33.920 --> 0:16:37.440 is instantly recognizable. No one looks at a kimono and 0:16:37.600 --> 0:16:40.120 is confused about the culture it came from. So in 0:16:40.160 --> 0:16:42.800 a way, they have made like this garment the ambassador 0:16:42.880 --> 0:16:44.520 for their country, which I love and I think it's 0:16:44.520 --> 0:16:48.600 really beautiful. Well, I think the reappropriation thing that I 0:16:48.640 --> 0:16:51.920 was thinking about is I feel like there's a pod 0:16:51.960 --> 0:16:54.720 of travel that exposes you to so many of these 0:16:54.760 --> 0:16:59.360 things where you need to go and appreciate and not 0:17:00.120 --> 0:17:02.760 take for yourself, right, And I think a lot of 0:17:02.800 --> 0:17:08.880 times people will kind of trinketize because of culture, where 0:17:08.880 --> 0:17:10.840 they go and they buy a thing in another country 0:17:10.840 --> 0:17:13.200 and then they come back and they wear it almost 0:17:13.280 --> 0:17:15.320 like you know, a badge of honor, and they're like, 0:17:15.520 --> 0:17:17.480 I went to this country, I am cultured and I 0:17:17.560 --> 0:17:20.440 understand it now, which is it gets in a weird 0:17:20.480 --> 0:17:23.400 place because their idea is that they're like, I appreciate this, 0:17:23.920 --> 0:17:26.480 and it's like, well wait, because you're you're kind of 0:17:26.520 --> 0:17:29.480 making yourself like the ambassador of something that you don't 0:17:29.560 --> 0:17:33.080 understand and don't really have cultural ownership of. And that's 0:17:33.080 --> 0:17:35.639 where it gets a little bit tricky, right, Um, so 0:17:35.760 --> 0:17:37.320 what is the right way to do it? I don't know. 0:17:37.400 --> 0:17:39.119 I don't know that there's one right way, right, Like 0:17:39.160 --> 0:17:42.080 I think a lot of people grapple with this. The 0:17:42.119 --> 0:17:45.040 biggest thing I think is always important is to to 0:17:45.240 --> 0:17:48.680 listen to people from any given culture when they say, like, 0:17:49.320 --> 0:17:53.679 that's not cool. And I understand that the reaction, the 0:17:53.840 --> 0:17:57.240 natural reaction most people have is whether they're conscious of 0:17:57.280 --> 0:17:58.879 it or not, to be defensive and be like I 0:17:58.920 --> 0:18:00.399 was just trying to learn, I was just trying to 0:18:00.800 --> 0:18:03.600 appreciate it, but like just to listen and sit with 0:18:03.640 --> 0:18:07.040 the information rather than trying to justify or like defend 0:18:07.080 --> 0:18:10.600 yourself in that situation. And again, I screw up all 0:18:10.600 --> 0:18:13.080 the time, like I think everybody does. It's hard not to. 0:18:13.359 --> 0:18:17.040 It's yeah, I mean I think like it's a good 0:18:17.040 --> 0:18:20.960 step that you you opened up that conversation with the 0:18:21.000 --> 0:18:24.800 person you were buying the kimono from and probably opened 0:18:24.840 --> 0:18:26.919 up to him a new idea that like you just 0:18:26.960 --> 0:18:30.280 wanted something to share with your mother. It wasn't it's 0:18:30.359 --> 0:18:33.560 not as the you're you're wearing it around town and 0:18:33.640 --> 0:18:35.600 being like I have been to Japan and I know 0:18:35.720 --> 0:18:41.600 the Japanese intimately. Um, that's the trick, right that people 0:18:42.160 --> 0:18:44.600 start to kind of come back I think sometimes from 0:18:44.640 --> 0:18:48.399 travels and behave as though they have somehow become naturalized 0:18:48.440 --> 0:18:51.080 citizens of the place that they went, when even if 0:18:51.119 --> 0:18:53.159 you learn about the cultures through doing something like that, 0:18:53.200 --> 0:18:57.760 you can never really replicate their experience to a level 0:18:57.760 --> 0:19:00.679 of understanding, you know, that is equal to what they've lived. 0:19:01.760 --> 0:19:05.000 It becomes about sensitivity as well, like I said, just 0:19:05.040 --> 0:19:08.399 listening to other people. Yeah, the kimono and my mother 0:19:09.119 --> 0:19:12.240 is a private, personal, beautiful thing we do at home, 0:19:12.760 --> 0:19:15.560 in the privacy of our own home. I'm not wearing 0:19:15.560 --> 0:19:18.600 it as a representation of Japan as much as I'm 0:19:18.600 --> 0:19:21.520 wearing it as a representation of time with my mother. 0:19:22.240 --> 0:19:25.360 Specialness of that. It's like your way to recall that 0:19:25.400 --> 0:19:28.040 moment and that event in your life. And this is 0:19:28.080 --> 0:19:29.680 like the thing that happens to me all the time 0:19:29.680 --> 0:19:32.680 that I laugh and think about. When I fly back 0:19:32.720 --> 0:19:35.359 from the Caribbean, there's always a bunch of people in 0:19:35.400 --> 0:19:37.960 the plane with corn rows that they've had them done, 0:19:38.160 --> 0:19:41.840 sometimes Mexico to but the Caribbean in particular. You notice 0:19:41.880 --> 0:19:45.280 people that had had their hand done braided or corn road. 0:19:45.400 --> 0:19:48.240 And I wonder whether there's a consciousness there at all, 0:19:48.520 --> 0:19:51.160 whether you're thinking like, oh, I'm gonna get corn rows 0:19:51.560 --> 0:19:55.639 as a person that's not from wherever I've come from 0:19:55.680 --> 0:19:57.680 and do it anyway, or am I doing it as 0:19:57.720 --> 0:20:02.280 a celebration of hair right? Well, and it kind of 0:20:02.320 --> 0:20:04.160 goes back to that thing I was saying about trinket 0:20:04.200 --> 0:20:06.199 izing it, right. It's like a fast food version of 0:20:06.240 --> 0:20:09.439 culture where it's kind of like you didn't actually immerse 0:20:09.480 --> 0:20:12.560 yourself and learn about it. You kind of bought a 0:20:12.600 --> 0:20:16.280 look through the drive through. Yeah, but then again, I'd 0:20:16.280 --> 0:20:18.960 like to be Devil's advocate hand look at it from 0:20:19.000 --> 0:20:25.880 maybe there's a small drop of hey, I'm willing to learn, 0:20:26.200 --> 0:20:30.600 like that person actually did think about it. Well, maybe 0:20:30.600 --> 0:20:32.920 that's just bullshit. No, they just went and had their 0:20:32.920 --> 0:20:35.960 hand writed. I think in most cases it's that it's 0:20:35.960 --> 0:20:39.520 an Instagram photo unfortunately. And I hope, I mean, my 0:20:39.600 --> 0:20:43.120 hope is always that I mean, once they have had 0:20:43.160 --> 0:20:45.040 that thing done, the cow has been flung, Like, you 0:20:45.080 --> 0:20:48.399 can't unring that bell and say that they didn't do that, 0:20:48.480 --> 0:20:51.040 especially if they've posted it on their Instagram. But I 0:20:51.200 --> 0:20:54.320 just always hope that it can open up a conversation 0:20:54.440 --> 0:20:57.400 or at least some self reflection about it. We all 0:20:57.440 --> 0:20:59.440 need it all the time. I mean, like I said, 0:20:59.520 --> 0:21:02.280 I screw all the time. It's the willingness to admit 0:21:02.359 --> 0:21:04.200 that you screw up all the time, and I'm willing 0:21:04.240 --> 0:21:07.320 to learn. Is that's the point? And travel shows you that, Like, 0:21:07.359 --> 0:21:10.439 that's the point. And I think most people don't want 0:21:10.520 --> 0:21:13.600 to trinketize anyone else's life, like they don't realize that 0:21:13.640 --> 0:21:16.119 it's demeaning to be like I came and enjoyed your 0:21:16.160 --> 0:21:19.159 culture and I came away with braids. Well, I enjoyed 0:21:19.160 --> 0:21:21.040 you a culture so much I dyed my hair purple 0:21:21.119 --> 0:21:23.680 two weeks ago because you have purple hair, and then 0:21:23.680 --> 0:21:27.040 went to play my ma gen competition with purple hair. Yes, 0:21:27.080 --> 0:21:29.320 but I sent you the die like I was an 0:21:29.320 --> 0:21:32.600 active basically by hand. I don't think of that as 0:21:32.680 --> 0:21:36.000 you appropriating my culture so much as me prosplytizing the 0:21:36.040 --> 0:21:39.040 magic of purpleness. And thank you. It was appreciated only 0:21:39.080 --> 0:21:41.000 when I was in the sun. If I was not 0:21:41.080 --> 0:21:44.240 in the sun, no one noticed. It just read as dark. Yeah, 0:21:44.320 --> 0:21:47.800 but yeah, I think as long as we're all aware 0:21:47.840 --> 0:21:50.239 that we're probably screwing up a lot, and we're not 0:21:50.359 --> 0:21:55.640 trying to turn someone else's culture into a souvenir, but 0:21:55.960 --> 0:21:59.679 be really thoughtful about these things. It will go along 0:21:59.680 --> 0:22:02.040 way to bridging that gap. The whole point of this 0:22:02.080 --> 0:22:04.920 episode was to talk about the idea of leaving your 0:22:04.920 --> 0:22:09.080 smartphone behind. So I've been grappling with this thing forever 0:22:09.200 --> 0:22:12.240 because of course I want a moment that's beautiful, to 0:22:12.359 --> 0:22:15.040 capture it and share it with friends across the world 0:22:15.040 --> 0:22:17.920 and show them something that they haven't seen, or something 0:22:17.960 --> 0:22:20.879 that I'm sharing with my mother or something I'm sharing 0:22:20.880 --> 0:22:23.399 with my husband. But at the same time, I've been like, 0:22:24.160 --> 0:22:28.919 why do I need to memorialize this moment? Annonize this moment? 0:22:29.359 --> 0:22:32.080 Isn't it a beautiful idea that you could just be 0:22:32.160 --> 0:22:35.840 in the moment? Ironically, like I think about these chats 0:22:35.840 --> 0:22:37.920 of ours that are being recorded, and I'm I think, 0:22:38.200 --> 0:22:40.280 I'm so glad these will be there when I'm in 0:22:40.320 --> 0:22:43.120 my eighties and have lost some of my mental acuity 0:22:43.160 --> 0:22:45.800 and I can return to this happy time. But yeah, 0:22:45.880 --> 0:22:47.800 I mean, to me, that's a big part of it, right. 0:22:47.800 --> 0:22:49.960 It is just that it helps kind of jog your 0:22:49.960 --> 0:22:51.639 memory and take you back to that place, like a 0:22:51.720 --> 0:22:54.360 visual is an easy way to do that, right. So 0:22:54.400 --> 0:22:57.239 now I don't even know since phones are you know, 0:22:57.359 --> 0:23:01.880 this ubiquitous additional appendage that like, I mean, I'm as 0:23:01.880 --> 0:23:03.920 bad as anyone. I have it in my hand all 0:23:03.960 --> 0:23:07.080 the time. And to me, there's also that subtle difference 0:23:07.119 --> 0:23:09.840 that you have to acknowledge between capturing a moment like 0:23:09.920 --> 0:23:13.080 stopping for a photo versus this will be great on Insta, 0:23:13.480 --> 0:23:17.119 this will be great on Twitter, like and I don't know, right, 0:23:17.200 --> 0:23:19.320 some of it is that yummy, yummy dopamine hit that 0:23:19.359 --> 0:23:23.240 people get from likes and comments, And I don't know 0:23:23.320 --> 0:23:25.360 how you tell people not to do that because we've 0:23:25.400 --> 0:23:28.239 become dependent on it. So maybe it's about calling the 0:23:28.280 --> 0:23:31.560 amount of what's done right. So my mother, who I'm 0:23:31.600 --> 0:23:35.680 with traveling all the time, she would take one photore 0:23:35.800 --> 0:23:39.320 an entire experience, Like she doesn't need to take hundreds 0:23:39.320 --> 0:23:42.400 of photos. She'll take one and she will actually look 0:23:42.400 --> 0:23:45.119 at that photo again, which I'd love about her. She'll 0:23:45.359 --> 0:23:47.240 share it with me and be like, do you remember 0:23:47.280 --> 0:23:52.440 this incredible flower we saw in Kyoto? I will never 0:23:52.480 --> 0:23:55.000