1 00:00:15,396 --> 00:00:21,876 Speaker 1: Pushkin. Hello, Deep background listeners. Noah Feldman here. I've recently 2 00:00:21,916 --> 00:00:25,716 Speaker 1: started making regular appearances on Axios Today, the daily news 3 00:00:25,756 --> 00:00:29,756 Speaker 1: podcast from Axios. I always have great conversations with host 4 00:00:29,836 --> 00:00:32,636 Speaker 1: Nila Boodoo, and I hope I'm able to shed light 5 00:00:32,716 --> 00:00:35,476 Speaker 1: on the legal issues that are making headlines. Here's my 6 00:00:35,596 --> 00:00:39,316 Speaker 1: latest interview on Axios Today. If you like getting smarter faster, 7 00:00:39,636 --> 00:00:42,356 Speaker 1: you can subscribe or listen wherever you get your podcasts. 8 00:00:42,676 --> 00:00:44,556 Speaker 1: I've made it a daily habit, and I hope you 9 00:00:44,596 --> 00:00:50,796 Speaker 1: will too. Good morning, Welcome to Axios Today. It's Friday, 10 00:00:50,876 --> 00:00:53,996 Speaker 1: December fourth. I'm Nila Boodoo. Here's how we're making you 11 00:00:54,036 --> 00:00:57,556 Speaker 1: smarter today. President Trump wants to auction drilling rights in 12 00:00:57,556 --> 00:01:02,036 Speaker 1: Alaska's Arctic wildlife refuge. Plus, there's a new genealogy database 13 00:01:02,116 --> 00:01:06,476 Speaker 1: dedicated to enslaved people and their stories. But first, the 14 00:01:06,596 --> 00:01:22,356 Speaker 1: test of our electoral system. Today's one big thing. That 15 00:01:22,476 --> 00:01:24,756 Speaker 1: was two weeks ago when the Wayne County Board of 16 00:01:24,836 --> 00:01:28,876 Speaker 1: Canvassers in Michigan met to certify presidential election results and 17 00:01:28,996 --> 00:01:33,276 Speaker 1: both Republican members refused. A few hours later, the Republicans relented. 18 00:01:33,316 --> 00:01:36,596 Speaker 1: There was another vote in the certification. Happened. It wasn't 19 00:01:36,596 --> 00:01:39,956 Speaker 1: just these Republicans in Michigan. A Republican secretary of State 20 00:01:39,956 --> 00:01:44,036 Speaker 1: in Georgia, a Republican county supervisor in Arizona, and Republican 21 00:01:44,036 --> 00:01:47,396 Speaker 1: appointed judges in Pennsylvania were among the state and local 22 00:01:47,436 --> 00:01:51,196 Speaker 1: officials who ended up validating the voters choice of Joe 23 00:01:51,236 --> 00:01:55,316 Speaker 1: Biden over Donald Trump in the presidential election. Noah Feldman 24 00:01:55,396 --> 00:01:58,076 Speaker 1: is a constitutional law scholar at Harvard and host of 25 00:01:58,116 --> 00:02:01,756 Speaker 1: the Deep Background podcast from Pushkin. Noah, So, we talked 26 00:02:01,756 --> 00:02:04,796 Speaker 1: before the election about your concerns about the democratic process. 27 00:02:04,836 --> 00:02:06,996 Speaker 1: I wonder in the end, did it all come down 28 00:02:06,996 --> 00:02:10,756 Speaker 1: to these few people. Those officials mattered a lot, but 29 00:02:10,796 --> 00:02:14,316 Speaker 1: it did come down to more than just them. Had 30 00:02:14,476 --> 00:02:20,196 Speaker 1: they ultimately gone down the Trump rabbit hole, that alone 31 00:02:20,316 --> 00:02:24,396 Speaker 1: would not have necessarily caused the next steps that Trump 32 00:02:24,436 --> 00:02:27,356 Speaker 1: was hoping for. That would have taken a lot of people. 33 00:02:27,556 --> 00:02:32,916 Speaker 1: But those folks were crucial because had they gone down 34 00:02:32,996 --> 00:02:36,796 Speaker 1: that road, it was possible that the democratic process would 35 00:02:36,836 --> 00:02:39,996 Speaker 1: genuinely have unraveled. So would you say, as a constitutional 36 00:02:40,076 --> 00:02:43,556 Speaker 1: law scholar, the process worked. Ultimately, the process worked in 37 00:02:43,556 --> 00:02:45,756 Speaker 1: the sense that we got the right outcome. It's not 38 00:02:45,836 --> 00:02:48,316 Speaker 1: a process that you or I would have designed in 39 00:02:48,356 --> 00:02:52,436 Speaker 1: the first place. The good news is the overwhelming majority 40 00:02:52,516 --> 00:02:57,116 Speaker 1: ninety nine point nine percent of state bureaucratic officials actually 41 00:02:57,196 --> 00:02:59,476 Speaker 1: just did their jobs in the ordinary way, and that's 42 00:02:59,596 --> 00:03:01,756 Speaker 1: great news. No, you and I have also talked in 43 00:03:01,756 --> 00:03:04,196 Speaker 1: the past about all the unwritten rules that govern our 44 00:03:04,196 --> 00:03:08,436 Speaker 1: election process. Do you feel like there's been irreparable damage 45 00:03:08,476 --> 00:03:11,636 Speaker 1: because of the way President Trump continues to attack what 46 00:03:11,796 --> 00:03:14,596 Speaker 1: an overwhelming majority of government and other officials say was 47 00:03:14,596 --> 00:03:18,036 Speaker 1: a free and fair election. Major damage has already been 48 00:03:18,076 --> 00:03:21,836 Speaker 1: done at present. I would not say the damage is irreparable, 49 00:03:22,116 --> 00:03:24,596 Speaker 1: but it's only reparable with a lot of work, a 50 00:03:24,676 --> 00:03:27,676 Speaker 1: lot of time, and a lot of logic and reason 51 00:03:27,796 --> 00:03:31,436 Speaker 1: being used against many, many, many arguments that are really 52 00:03:31,476 --> 00:03:33,756 Speaker 1: grounded a conspiracy theory, and they aren't so easy to 53 00:03:33,756 --> 00:03:36,516 Speaker 1: refute with facts. So what work has to be done? Then? 54 00:03:36,876 --> 00:03:38,756 Speaker 1: Some of that work can be done by making what's 55 00:03:38,796 --> 00:03:42,436 Speaker 1: already a fairly transparent process even more transparent in this 56 00:03:42,516 --> 00:03:45,196 Speaker 1: day and age. Probably there should be a video camera 57 00:03:45,396 --> 00:03:49,636 Speaker 1: on every polling place, every pile of ballots. That would help, 58 00:03:49,916 --> 00:03:52,316 Speaker 1: but it's not enough. There need to be officials who 59 00:03:52,316 --> 00:03:56,276 Speaker 1: are trusted public leaders saying the process is legitimate, and 60 00:03:56,316 --> 00:03:58,156 Speaker 1: that starts from the top. So in the end, how 61 00:03:58,196 --> 00:04:00,076 Speaker 1: are you feeling about all of this? I guess what 62 00:04:00,116 --> 00:04:03,196 Speaker 1: I would say is Donald Trump came close to breaking 63 00:04:03,236 --> 00:04:05,236 Speaker 1: the norms of the system in a way that shows 64 00:04:05,556 --> 00:04:08,516 Speaker 1: the vulnerability of the system. And in that sense, we 65 00:04:08,596 --> 00:04:11,716 Speaker 1: learned a lot about how precarious our constitutional democracy is. 66 00:04:12,116 --> 00:04:16,196 Speaker 1: And that's very, very sobering for anyone whose job, like 67 00:04:16,276 --> 00:04:20,356 Speaker 1: mine is involves looking at the system and judging its strength, 68 00:04:20,476 --> 00:04:23,076 Speaker 1: judging how capable it is. So we have a lot 69 00:04:23,116 --> 00:04:25,676 Speaker 1: of serious challenges that we need to address going forward. 70 00:04:26,436 --> 00:04:29,996 Speaker 1: Noah Feldman is a constitutional law scholar at Harvard and 71 00:04:30,036 --> 00:04:33,036 Speaker 1: he's also hosts of the Deep Background podcast from Pushkin. 72 00:04:33,356 --> 00:04:37,076 Speaker 1: Thanks Noah, thanks for having me. We'll be back in 73 00:04:37,116 --> 00:04:39,516 Speaker 1: fifteen seconds with the latest plan to drill for oil 74 00:04:39,556 --> 00:04:46,356 Speaker 1: in Alaska. Welcome back to Axios today. The Trump administration 75 00:04:46,396 --> 00:04:49,716 Speaker 1: announced yesterday it will auction off drilling rights in Alaska's 76 00:04:49,836 --> 00:04:53,316 Speaker 1: Arctic National Wildlife Refuge if those rights are sold before 77 00:04:53,396 --> 00:04:56,556 Speaker 1: January twentieth. That's a big step towards drilling in what 78 00:04:56,636 --> 00:04:59,556 Speaker 1: has been a decades long battle in the region. What 79 00:04:59,676 --> 00:05:02,036 Speaker 1: could President elect Joe Biden do to reverse this once 80 00:05:02,036 --> 00:05:05,916 Speaker 1: he takes office. Ben Gamon is an energy reporter for Axios. 81 00:05:06,316 --> 00:05:08,676 Speaker 1: Then the drilling rints in this area have been fought 82 00:05:08,676 --> 00:05:10,636 Speaker 1: over for such a long time. Can you just tell 83 00:05:10,716 --> 00:05:13,036 Speaker 1: us what's going on here? Yeah, that's right. And what's 84 00:05:13,076 --> 00:05:15,596 Speaker 1: happened here is that as a result of some gop 85 00:05:15,836 --> 00:05:19,996 Speaker 1: led legislation in twenty seventeen, the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge, 86 00:05:20,076 --> 00:05:21,796 Speaker 1: or the coastal plane of it, a part of it 87 00:05:21,836 --> 00:05:25,716 Speaker 1: has theoretically thrown open to drilling. What's going to happen 88 00:05:25,796 --> 00:05:28,836 Speaker 1: now is that early in January they're going to auction 89 00:05:28,956 --> 00:05:32,596 Speaker 1: these drilling rights to oil companies and that would make 90 00:05:32,636 --> 00:05:36,076 Speaker 1: it much more difficult, but hardly impossible. I should stress 91 00:05:36,156 --> 00:05:39,596 Speaker 1: for Biden to prevent drilling from ever occurring there. So 92 00:05:39,676 --> 00:05:42,156 Speaker 1: this is a significant step, but the fight is hardly over. 93 00:05:42,476 --> 00:05:44,836 Speaker 1: So we know that Biden opposes this, what could he 94 00:05:44,876 --> 00:05:47,036 Speaker 1: do to stop it? To some extent? Their hands are 95 00:05:47,036 --> 00:05:49,556 Speaker 1: going to be tied because the leases will have already 96 00:05:49,596 --> 00:05:52,276 Speaker 1: been sold. But that said, there's any number of different 97 00:05:52,356 --> 00:05:54,956 Speaker 1: levers that the Biden administration could attempt to pull to 98 00:05:55,036 --> 00:05:58,796 Speaker 1: either thwart or at the very least massively slow down 99 00:05:58,796 --> 00:06:01,676 Speaker 1: this process. And that could be anything from no longer 100 00:06:01,716 --> 00:06:05,636 Speaker 1: defending the Trump administration's position in ongoing litigation over prior 101 00:06:05,716 --> 00:06:08,196 Speaker 1: parts of this effort. They could impose different types of 102 00:06:08,236 --> 00:06:10,996 Speaker 1: permitting requirements that would make things very difficult for the industry. 103 00:06:11,076 --> 00:06:13,276 Speaker 1: That said, I do think we will see some level 104 00:06:13,276 --> 00:06:15,236 Speaker 1: of industry interest in the sale of simply because the 105 00:06:15,276 --> 00:06:18,436 Speaker 1: resources there are believed to at least potentially be incredibly large. 106 00:06:18,556 --> 00:06:21,916 Speaker 1: Can you just tell us about the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge, 107 00:06:22,276 --> 00:06:24,436 Speaker 1: what kind of ecosystem is it and would it be 108 00:06:24,556 --> 00:06:29,236 Speaker 1: damaged by drilling? Yeah, certainly any type of industrial development 109 00:06:29,316 --> 00:06:32,036 Speaker 1: in this ecosystem is going to have some impacts and 110 00:06:32,116 --> 00:06:35,076 Speaker 1: cause some level of harm. Now, advocates of development think 111 00:06:35,116 --> 00:06:36,556 Speaker 1: that this can be done in a way that is 112 00:06:36,596 --> 00:06:40,516 Speaker 1: quite manageable and minimizes the risks. Opponents of its say 113 00:06:40,596 --> 00:06:43,516 Speaker 1: that's essentially a fantasy, that just the level of development 114 00:06:43,516 --> 00:06:46,036 Speaker 1: that's going to be needed to create well pads, pipelines, 115 00:06:46,076 --> 00:06:49,796 Speaker 1: other infrastructure will badly harm and jeopardize the region. And 116 00:06:49,956 --> 00:06:53,116 Speaker 1: this is a very pristine, remote and ecologically sensitive place. 117 00:06:53,156 --> 00:06:57,396 Speaker 1: It's home to species including caribou, polar bears, other types 118 00:06:57,436 --> 00:07:00,036 Speaker 1: of animals and species that people are very fearful would 119 00:07:00,036 --> 00:07:04,316 Speaker 1: be greatly disrupted by this. Thankiemon is the author of 120 00:07:04,316 --> 00:07:09,316 Speaker 1: the axios Generate newsletter, one of the most comprehensive it's 121 00:07:09,316 --> 00:07:12,036 Speaker 1: on slavery is now using technology to help millions of 122 00:07:12,076 --> 00:07:16,796 Speaker 1: descendants learn more about their ancestors. It's called enslaved dot 123 00:07:16,916 --> 00:07:20,716 Speaker 1: org and Russell contrast excuss Race Injustice Reporter is here 124 00:07:20,756 --> 00:07:23,276 Speaker 1: to tell us all about it. Russell, how is this 125 00:07:23,436 --> 00:07:27,516 Speaker 1: database different than say, ancestry dot com. Well, an answerstry 126 00:07:27,516 --> 00:07:29,316 Speaker 1: dot com there's a lot of information, but there was 127 00:07:29,316 --> 00:07:31,876 Speaker 1: a void on its history of slavery. A lot of 128 00:07:31,916 --> 00:07:35,836 Speaker 1: people have discovered documents in their own personal research about 129 00:07:35,836 --> 00:07:37,836 Speaker 1: their own family members, and so what this website is 130 00:07:37,876 --> 00:07:41,076 Speaker 1: doing is encouraging people to submit these documents so they 131 00:07:41,076 --> 00:07:43,996 Speaker 1: could be vetted by scholars and be included in this database. 132 00:07:44,356 --> 00:07:46,956 Speaker 1: How else does it fill in these holes that are 133 00:07:46,996 --> 00:07:49,716 Speaker 1: in a lot of family narratives. I took some time 134 00:07:49,836 --> 00:07:51,796 Speaker 1: was looking at it, and I, of course, you type 135 00:07:51,836 --> 00:07:54,476 Speaker 1: your own name. And what was shocking is that I 136 00:07:54,596 --> 00:07:58,556 Speaker 1: found two folks who had my last name who were 137 00:07:58,596 --> 00:08:02,116 Speaker 1: slave traders. They came from Portugal, and as I read them, 138 00:08:02,236 --> 00:08:06,716 Speaker 1: I realized, not only do I have some ancestors who 139 00:08:06,716 --> 00:08:11,756 Speaker 1: were connected to the enslavement of other people. I have 140 00:08:11,916 --> 00:08:15,396 Speaker 1: connections to people who were enslaved and so enslaved. Dot 141 00:08:15,476 --> 00:08:22,236 Speaker 1: org really brings home this legacy. Russell Controros is the 142 00:08:22,316 --> 00:08:25,716 Speaker 1: race and Justice reporter for Axios. Thank you, Russell, thank you. 143 00:08:28,716 --> 00:08:31,916 Speaker 1: Let's end this week with a little story. In nineteen eighteen, 144 00:08:31,996 --> 00:08:34,236 Speaker 1: in the middle of that pandemic, a baby was born 145 00:08:34,276 --> 00:08:37,076 Speaker 1: on a ship carrying immigrants from Italy to New York City. 146 00:08:37,596 --> 00:08:42,556 Speaker 1: Her mother's guy giving birth, but the baby, named Angelina, 147 00:08:42,756 --> 00:08:46,116 Speaker 1: survived and she's still around. This year, she turned one 148 00:08:46,196 --> 00:08:49,316 Speaker 1: hundred and two. That's her daughter Joanne telling her story 149 00:08:49,356 --> 00:08:54,716 Speaker 1: to CNN. That's because this year Angelina Friedman conquered another pandemic, 150 00:08:55,236 --> 00:08:58,716 Speaker 1: the coronavirus. She was admitted to a New York hospital 151 00:08:58,756 --> 00:09:02,276 Speaker 1: in March, where she first tested positive. Months later, in October, 152 00:09:02,636 --> 00:09:06,596 Speaker 1: she tested positive again. She's recovered both times, and her 153 00:09:06,636 --> 00:09:09,796 Speaker 1: daughter thinks Angelina might just be the old person to 154 00:09:09,836 --> 00:09:17,436 Speaker 1: have survived COVID twice. My mother is not human, Una, 155 00:09:18,156 --> 00:09:23,316 Speaker 1: it certainly seems that way. Axios Today is brought to 156 00:09:23,356 --> 00:09:26,476 Speaker 1: you by Axios and Pushkin Industries. We're produced by Carol 157 00:09:26,476 --> 00:09:30,836 Speaker 1: Wu Nuria Marquez Martinez, Karashillen, and Naomi Shavin. Our mixed 158 00:09:30,876 --> 00:09:34,596 Speaker 1: engineer is Alex Sugiara. Dan Bobcoff is our executive producer. 159 00:09:34,836 --> 00:09:38,076 Speaker 1: Sarah Kahalani gu is our executive editor and special thanks 160 00:09:38,076 --> 00:09:41,396 Speaker 1: to Axios co founder Mike Allen at Pushkin. Our executive 161 00:09:41,436 --> 00:09:45,156 Speaker 1: producers are Leta mullat In Jacob Weisberg. We love feedback. 162 00:09:45,436 --> 00:09:48,356 Speaker 1: Share your thoughts by writing us at podcasts at axios 163 00:09:48,436 --> 00:09:51,156 Speaker 1: dot com or to me directly on Twitter at Nila Budoo. 164 00:09:51,476 --> 00:09:54,076 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening, Stay safe and enjoy your weekend.