WEBVTT - Did Lead Exposure Create Serial Killers? 0:00:00.200 --> 0:00:04.680 From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 0:00:04.760 --> 0:00:09.080 riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 0:00:09.160 --> 0:00:12.119 learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A 0:00:12.200 --> 0:00:13.920 production of iHeartRadio. 0:00:26.040 --> 0:00:28.760 Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt, 0:00:28.880 --> 0:00:29.720 my name is Noel. 0:00:30.000 --> 0:00:31.280 They call me Ben. 0:00:31.400 --> 0:00:34.440 We're joined as always with our super producer Dylan the 0:00:34.479 --> 0:00:38.120 Tennessee pal Fagan. Most importantly, you are you. 0:00:38.120 --> 0:00:38.920 You are here. 0:00:39.240 --> 0:00:42.800 That makes this the stuff they don't want you to 0:00:42.920 --> 0:00:46.279 know now for all of us tuning in on Netflix, 0:00:46.479 --> 0:00:50.120 fellow conspiracy realist, you may notice a couple of things 0:00:50.479 --> 0:00:55.600 different in this episode. We've got some different backgrounds. I 0:00:55.640 --> 0:00:58.040 am aware that there is a band aid on my face. 0:00:58.680 --> 0:01:00.279 We're not going to address it. 0:01:00.400 --> 0:01:01.040 Passed it. 0:01:03.800 --> 0:01:06.119 Was who was it? There was some like dirty South 0:01:06.160 --> 0:01:08.920 rapper Nellie Nellie? Sorry, I know it was one of 0:01:08.920 --> 0:01:10.080 the why the why guys. 0:01:10.400 --> 0:01:14.200 Therefore the weekend had a bloody nose there for a while. 0:01:14.280 --> 0:01:14.759 That's sure. 0:01:15.080 --> 0:01:17.400 That was an escalation of the band aid as a 0:01:17.400 --> 0:01:19.360 as a fashion statement. But I support you, Ben, I 0:01:19.360 --> 0:01:19.920 hope you're okay. 0:01:20.080 --> 0:01:24.240 Oh man, right, thank you to get punched. 0:01:26.040 --> 0:01:26.280 Stop. 0:01:26.840 --> 0:01:28.560 Did you have some lead exposure as a kid. 0:01:30.800 --> 0:01:31.640 Yeah, that's right. 0:01:32.040 --> 0:01:37.640 I like about that segue there, Uh, band aid to 0:01:37.760 --> 0:01:42.440 a nosebleed. We're talking about an escalation tonight. We're recording 0:01:42.480 --> 0:01:46.039 on Monday, April sixth. It is time to get the 0:01:46.160 --> 0:01:46.600 lead out. 0:01:47.200 --> 0:01:47.680 Seriously. 0:01:47.760 --> 0:01:51.320 Let's start with a ps A. Don't hang out with 0:01:51.800 --> 0:01:54.520 or around lead if you can help it. It was 0:01:54.560 --> 0:01:57.520 once a miracle substance are treated as such in the 0:01:57.600 --> 0:02:00.920 days of old, and it eventually became linked to all 0:02:00.960 --> 0:02:05.559 sorts of horrific stuff, even before modern science could prove 0:02:05.600 --> 0:02:09.640 it is massively bad for you. I think today it's 0:02:09.720 --> 0:02:13.640 fair for us to say that most everybody accepts the 0:02:13.680 --> 0:02:16.320 reality of lead exposure and knows that it can lead 0:02:16.360 --> 0:02:20.720 to a range of lifelong debilitating conditions. You know, on 0:02:21.440 --> 0:02:26.200 our sister show, Ridiculous History, we actually teased this episode 0:02:26.240 --> 0:02:31.320 because we entered into the raging debate about whether or 0:02:31.400 --> 0:02:35.679 not lead exposure caused the fall of the Roman Empire. 0:02:35.880 --> 0:02:36.320 We did. 0:02:36.400 --> 0:02:38.960 And y'all, if you're worried about those paint chips used 0:02:38.960 --> 0:02:41.000 to eat as a kid, as I was, but you 0:02:41.080 --> 0:02:44.240 haven't done any serial killing yet, you're probably in the clear. 0:02:44.639 --> 0:02:51.560 Depending on your age. So right, yes, A healthy ya 0:02:51.720 --> 0:02:52.520 for all of us. Yeah. 0:02:52.520 --> 0:02:55.440 I think in this episode where we're not getting into 0:02:55.480 --> 0:02:58.399 like does lead make you a serial killer? Right, we're 0:02:58.400 --> 0:03:02.360 getting into is led related in some way to serial killing? 0:03:02.639 --> 0:03:04.480 Yeah? Yeah, let's go awry to it. 0:03:04.560 --> 0:03:07.440 There's another debate at play to what we call the 0:03:07.520 --> 0:03:11.440 leg crime hypothesis. It's one that's perhaps even more controversial. 0:03:11.480 --> 0:03:16.280 It's the subject of tonight's investigation. Did lead exposure is 0:03:16.280 --> 0:03:19.800 a way read the headline did lead exposure create America's 0:03:19.840 --> 0:03:22.920 serial killer epidemic? We're going to try to keep this 0:03:22.960 --> 0:03:32.200 one Pg. Thirteen, but no promises, so listen closely. Here 0:03:32.440 --> 0:03:36.680 are the facts. All right, lead, what is it good for? 0:03:36.880 --> 0:03:39.120 Absolutely several things to dabble? 0:03:39.200 --> 0:03:39.480 Do you? 0:03:39.840 --> 0:03:40.000 Right? 0:03:40.160 --> 0:03:44.400 Lead is a soft, silvery white, grayish metal number eighty 0:03:44.440 --> 0:03:48.360 two on the periodic table. Is it peb yes, yes, 0:03:48.600 --> 0:03:51.320 one of those weird ones. Mm hmm, yeah, I guess 0:03:51.320 --> 0:03:51.880 what is it like? 0:03:51.960 --> 0:03:58.840 It's Latin yeah, plubium, So it has a low melting point. 0:03:59.440 --> 0:04:03.360 This miss serious miracle substance. It's easy to find and 0:04:03.440 --> 0:04:08.080 it is extremely malleable. It's also very easy to get 0:04:08.160 --> 0:04:11.920 lead out of the ground and into a useful form. 0:04:11.760 --> 0:04:14.760 Right, and thus the prevalence of lead throughout history. It 0:04:14.800 --> 0:04:17.040 was just it was like one of those miracle substances 0:04:17.040 --> 0:04:22.719 like asbestos h yeah, yeah, or plastic as future historians 0:04:22.720 --> 0:04:24.119 will describe our age. 0:04:24.360 --> 0:04:27.000 I mean, it's it's so common and humans have been 0:04:27.200 --> 0:04:30.320 familiar with it for such a long time that lead 0:04:30.440 --> 0:04:34.159 is even mentioned in the Bible as a reality, not 0:04:34.279 --> 0:04:35.320 as like a metaphor. 0:04:35.520 --> 0:04:35.760 Yeah. 0:04:35.800 --> 0:04:39.320 And one thing we found on that ridiculous history episode 0:04:39.360 --> 0:04:42.599 you mentioned, Ben, is that the Romans actually even used it, 0:04:42.680 --> 0:04:46.240 like as a flavoring agent for their wine because it 0:04:46.320 --> 0:04:47.440 made it sweet. 0:04:47.800 --> 0:04:48.680 Sweet sweet lead. 0:04:49.680 --> 0:04:54.400 Babylonians used it to create plates that they would put 0:04:54.440 --> 0:04:58.120 inscriptions on. The Romans, to your point, no, used it 0:04:58.240 --> 0:05:04.480 for everything coins, water pipes for their brilliant aqueduct systems, tablets, 0:05:04.800 --> 0:05:08.240 cooking utensils, and as you said why there were also 0:05:08.720 --> 0:05:13.679 decorative pigment compounds derived from white lead that were used 0:05:13.680 --> 0:05:16.960 as early as two hundred BCE. This has been around 0:05:17.000 --> 0:05:19.880 for a while. By the time we get to ancient Rome, 0:05:20.360 --> 0:05:25.200 lead is everywhere, and this is where the problem begins because, 0:05:25.400 --> 0:05:31.240 in addition to being highly useful, lead is also cartoonishly toxic. 0:05:31.400 --> 0:05:35.760 We don't mean toxic in like a wo woo, pseudoscience, 0:05:35.839 --> 0:05:36.560 bad vibes. 0:05:36.600 --> 0:05:39.880 Way, we mean Britney spears kind of right, right, Yeah, 0:05:40.120 --> 0:05:41.880 we meet it as a neurotoxic. 0:05:41.920 --> 0:05:45.200 If you're exposed to it, you will have serious health issues, 0:05:45.480 --> 0:05:48.280 especially if you're exposed to it as a child during 0:05:48.279 --> 0:05:54.640 your formative years, causing developmental delays, learning difficulties, a particular 0:05:54.800 --> 0:05:59.039 kind of brain damage, damage to the frontal cortex that 0:05:59.200 --> 0:06:04.400 can lead to aggression, especially in males, damage to the 0:06:04.480 --> 0:06:05.679 nervous system as well. 0:06:05.920 --> 0:06:09.200 And with these toxic effects, it is really unfortunate that 0:06:09.279 --> 0:06:12.479 humans decided to make a lot of pipes with lead 0:06:12.839 --> 0:06:15.320 pipes that send things like water through them. 0:06:15.520 --> 0:06:19.040 Shout out Flint, Michigan, shout out to our episode Beyond Flint, 0:06:19.200 --> 0:06:20.560 the Looming Lead Crisis. 0:06:20.720 --> 0:06:24.320 Well, yeah, and that is one city in the United 0:06:24.320 --> 0:06:28.760 States that used lead pipes. Lead pipes were ubiquitous everywhere, 0:06:28.839 --> 0:06:31.880 especially in the US and in other places where if 0:06:31.880 --> 0:06:35.000 you were drinking water, it was probably going through lead. 0:06:35.080 --> 0:06:36.920 And I mean, now we have tests, you know, if 0:06:36.920 --> 0:06:38.520 a house is going to be demolished or there's going 0:06:38.560 --> 0:06:41.279 to be renovations or whatever, they test for things like 0:06:41.360 --> 0:06:44.040 lead and paint. Because that was also mega mega common. 0:06:44.279 --> 0:06:44.920 I mean, it's so. 0:06:45.040 --> 0:06:47.760 Crazy that you know, we know all of this horrible 0:06:47.839 --> 0:06:50.599 stuff now that you think we would have figured out 0:06:50.680 --> 0:06:53.400 long before it was used in so many things in 0:06:53.480 --> 0:06:55.640 our modern era. I mean, we're talking about this stuff 0:06:55.640 --> 0:06:58.960 being used in the Roman Empire, Like, why didn't they 0:06:59.000 --> 0:06:59.680 get the memo? 0:07:00.040 --> 0:07:03.120 Well, my only argument would be teflon the invention of 0:07:03.160 --> 0:07:06.839 that and how great that was for so long until 0:07:06.839 --> 0:07:08.560 we realized what the hell was happening. 0:07:10.600 --> 0:07:14.160 Yeah again, Ben, You're absolutely right, and that's something that's 0:07:14.200 --> 0:07:16.880 still everywhere despite what we know about it. So kind 0:07:16.880 --> 0:07:18.800 of answered the question. I mean, we're just not that 0:07:18.880 --> 0:07:23.120 great at forward thinking when it comes to toxic substances. 0:07:23.200 --> 0:07:25.600 Well, lead pipes were making money, bait, That's what I'm saying. 0:07:25.640 --> 0:07:27.720 As long as they're making that money, then you know, 0:07:27.880 --> 0:07:29.360 we'll worry about it down the line. 0:07:29.520 --> 0:07:32.280 And as we are going down the line to the 0:07:32.400 --> 0:07:36.480 United States, fellow conspiracy realist, let's continue setting the scene 0:07:36.520 --> 0:07:37.000 in Rome. 0:07:37.160 --> 0:07:39.120 So we posit to you. 0:07:39.480 --> 0:07:43.520 That there is a circular pattern here, a bit of 0:07:43.560 --> 0:07:46.600 an ru bruce. If not a history repeating case, this 0:07:46.720 --> 0:07:51.680 is history rhyming. The dilemma of usefulness versus public health 0:07:52.040 --> 0:07:55.400 created what I think is fair to call an ancient 0:07:55.600 --> 0:08:00.880 proto conspiracy. People are not dumb throughout history or there 0:08:01.040 --> 0:08:04.840 I should say, people are no more smarter than they 0:08:04.840 --> 0:08:09.320 were in ancient times. So people way back when suspected 0:08:09.440 --> 0:08:13.080 lead was pretty bad news. Early on Romans were aware 0:08:13.120 --> 0:08:17.720 of it. There were physicians like Dioskorides who literally wrote 0:08:17.960 --> 0:08:23.000 lead makes the mind give way. But lead was economically vital, 0:08:23.120 --> 0:08:25.960 so they minimized the downsides. They covered it up. The 0:08:26.600 --> 0:08:31.120 Romans many other cultures that followed started reasoning that limited 0:08:31.320 --> 0:08:35.520 lead exposure couldn't be that bad. They were thinking of 0:08:35.600 --> 0:08:37.840 it as have a little lead as a treat. You know, 0:08:38.000 --> 0:08:40.360 a little bit of one cigarette won't kill you. A 0:08:40.360 --> 0:08:43.000 little bit of lead in your wine is just good party. 0:08:43.320 --> 0:08:45.480 You guys, dabble, do you right? 0:08:45.720 --> 0:08:48.560 I wonder if there is something to that that people 0:08:48.600 --> 0:08:51.520 in the upper echelons, the folks that were making money 0:08:51.640 --> 0:08:55.280 off of producing lead products back then, saw the effects 0:08:55.360 --> 0:08:58.319 of it and then realized, oh, well, if we make 0:08:58.360 --> 0:09:01.520 sure the palaces don't have some much lead, and let's say, 0:09:01.559 --> 0:09:04.440 the things we're using, we make sure, you know, the 0:09:04.520 --> 0:09:07.920 churches or the places of worship, the places where the 0:09:07.960 --> 0:09:10.400 elite are going to be hanging out. We won't use 0:09:10.440 --> 0:09:13.560 the lead. But if the populace has their mind giving 0:09:13.640 --> 0:09:15.840 way a little bit, maybe that's not such a bad thing. 0:09:16.080 --> 0:09:21.320 That's interesting because what we found in Ridiculous History was 0:09:21.360 --> 0:09:26.600 that the upper echelons of the socioeconomic pyramid of ancient 0:09:26.679 --> 0:09:31.000 Rome were actually more exposed to lead, just simply in 0:09:31.160 --> 0:09:33.760 subtle ways that they didn't realize. They were more likely 0:09:33.800 --> 0:09:36.520 to have indoor plumbing, they were more likely to use 0:09:36.840 --> 0:09:39.560 cutlery that was lead base. They were more likely to 0:09:39.559 --> 0:09:42.359 have the fancy wine with lead and decorative artifacts. 0:09:42.360 --> 0:09:45.160 But where whereas yeah, people you know might be using 0:09:45.240 --> 0:09:48.280 pottery or riding utensils and things like that. 0:09:48.600 --> 0:09:52.520 But the issue here is they did not differentiate. They 0:09:52.559 --> 0:09:55.960 thought lead exposure was one thing, when actually there are 0:09:55.960 --> 0:10:00.439 a couple levels. The people they saw getting clearly from 0:10:00.520 --> 0:10:07.360 lead were miners, people in smelting operations as posre Pax Murana. 0:10:07.559 --> 0:10:11.400 That's us. That's fine, as we'll keep it that. 0:10:11.679 --> 0:10:15.600 As Pax Romana kicked in and the empire had to 0:10:15.679 --> 0:10:19.400 create more and more coins, they were smelting like on 0:10:19.520 --> 0:10:20.880 a gad Zooke's scale. 0:10:20.960 --> 0:10:23.440 Well, and what better way to get that really really 0:10:23.920 --> 0:10:27.000 serious lead exposure than just inhaling the fumes. 0:10:27.080 --> 0:10:29.920 You know, was lead in the coins. 0:10:29.760 --> 0:10:33.920 Yeah, It's used in smelting operations for silver, So they 0:10:33.920 --> 0:10:37.640 were making silver coins and as a result of the 0:10:37.679 --> 0:10:42.839 smelting operations, the miners were getting acute exposure to lead. 0:10:43.120 --> 0:10:47.880 And this was something that the wealthy could look at. 0:10:48.000 --> 0:10:51.080 They would look down from their socioeconomic pyramid and they 0:10:51.080 --> 0:10:54.440 would say, oh, it's hurting the poors, but we're fine, 0:10:54.840 --> 0:10:59.600 without understanding that the entire time lead was accumulating in 0:10:59.679 --> 0:11:02.800 their bodies as well. There wasn't an OSHA, there wasn't 0:11:02.800 --> 0:11:04.719 an EPA. Nobody was stopping this. 0:11:05.080 --> 0:11:07.720 Well, that goes back to Matt's previous question, I think too, 0:11:07.760 --> 0:11:11.920 where they did know, The upper crust did know, but 0:11:11.960 --> 0:11:15.200 they just thought they were safer than the folks being 0:11:15.240 --> 0:11:18.000 directly exposed to it who were making the stuff in 0:11:18.040 --> 0:11:24.199 the mines. But little did they know various other transmission methods, 0:11:24.280 --> 0:11:26.760 you know, other than the fumes, you know, for actually 0:11:26.800 --> 0:11:28.439 taking lead into the body. 0:11:28.679 --> 0:11:32.400 Yeah, and like we were saying earlier, the upper crust 0:11:32.440 --> 0:11:35.520 was probably exposed to more lead anyway. Check out our 0:11:35.559 --> 0:11:39.080 series on Ridiculous History. Fast forward to the Middle Ages, 0:11:39.440 --> 0:11:42.440 lead is still huge, even though people know it's a problem. 0:11:42.559 --> 0:11:46.160 Lead is massive in alchemy, which leads to chemistry. Leaded 0:11:46.240 --> 0:11:50.520 type is a huge engine in the emergence of mass printing. 0:11:50.800 --> 0:11:54.040 You got the Borgias and the Medici's of the Renaissance. 0:11:54.280 --> 0:11:58.320 They loved lead as an effective poison. Actually, we found 0:11:58.400 --> 0:12:01.440 in our research that the frame bench had a street 0:12:01.520 --> 0:12:02.319 name for lead. 0:12:02.480 --> 0:12:07.920 Oh yeah, Benny talking about Poudre de la soon succession powder. 0:12:08.840 --> 0:12:10.080 Right, Yeah, that's funny. 0:12:10.400 --> 0:12:16.840 But dark leaders kill the person that's that's inconvenient for 0:12:16.880 --> 0:12:18.760 your particular version of politics. 0:12:19.120 --> 0:12:20.600 Right, and this is. 0:12:20.720 --> 0:12:24.440 Versatile in its applications led and again and again. This 0:12:24.480 --> 0:12:28.000 is the argument we're making in this episode. Throughout history, 0:12:28.640 --> 0:12:33.880 different civilizations have made the same devil's bargain, industrial progress 0:12:34.120 --> 0:12:37.320 at an astonishing level at the price of public health. 0:12:37.400 --> 0:12:41.200 The American colonies, the United States, they were no different. 0:12:41.240 --> 0:12:43.400 Now we're getting closer to the modern day. If you 0:12:43.440 --> 0:12:46.120 go to Jack Lewis, who was writing for the epa 0:12:46.360 --> 0:12:49.839 way back in the nineteen eighties, you'll see that lead 0:12:49.880 --> 0:12:54.640 mining and smelting started in the American colonies. As soon 0:12:54.760 --> 0:12:58.960 as the first colonists settled. People were mining and forging 0:12:59.080 --> 0:13:04.080 lead by sixteen twenty one in Virginia. The lead industry 0:13:04.360 --> 0:13:09.200 in the United States predates the United States. That's pretty 0:13:09.200 --> 0:13:10.160 trippy to think about. 0:13:10.320 --> 0:13:13.520 We needed things to work the land. Why not have 0:13:13.600 --> 0:13:18.240 your leaden tools. They'll do you right until they do 0:13:18.280 --> 0:13:18.720 your own. 0:13:18.760 --> 0:13:21.440 Not to mention our leaded gasolines, which we will all 0:13:21.880 --> 0:13:23.440 knock knock. 0:13:23.960 --> 0:13:25.320 Yeah, shout out to oh. 0:13:25.400 --> 0:13:29.120 I forgot the inventor's name, but yeah, he ruined a 0:13:29.160 --> 0:13:32.360 lot of stuff accidentally, and he died by one of 0:13:32.360 --> 0:13:36.600 his other inventions. Thomas Midgeley Junior, that's his name, the 0:13:36.640 --> 0:13:41.240 guy who made a lead a lead product that would 0:13:41.240 --> 0:13:43.960 prevent knocking in automotive engines. 0:13:44.760 --> 0:13:45.560 He died. 0:13:46.520 --> 0:13:50.520 This is such an aside, but folks, he died when 0:13:50.559 --> 0:13:54.560 he invented a rope pulleye system to help him get 0:13:54.600 --> 0:13:56.720 out of bed, and he got caught in it. 0:13:56.720 --> 0:14:01.559 It was like a horrible mishap, you know, literally, invention's 0:14:01.720 --> 0:14:02.320 gone wild. 0:14:02.640 --> 0:14:06.800 What a mouse trap? Way to go? And then Goldberg guest, yes. 0:14:06.840 --> 0:14:07.200 Just so. 0:14:07.559 --> 0:14:11.000 And by the early twentieth centuries, now we're in the 0:14:11.080 --> 0:14:15.880 nineteen hundreds, the United States has becolled the world's leading 0:14:16.080 --> 0:14:21.680 producer and consumer of refined lead. Uncle Samuel loves his stuff. 0:14:21.800 --> 0:14:22.040 Yeah. 0:14:22.240 --> 0:14:25.080 Yeah, not only am I president, I'm also a client. 0:14:25.480 --> 0:14:30.160 By nineteen eighty, the US was using one point three 0:14:30.680 --> 0:14:35.000 million tons of lead every year. That was an estimated 0:14:35.200 --> 0:14:39.840 forty percent of the entire world's supply. And we don't 0:14:39.880 --> 0:14:42.120 have to get into the weeds too much, but if 0:14:42.160 --> 0:14:44.560 you do a little bit of cocktail math, what you'll 0:14:44.560 --> 0:14:48.200 see is this equates to a usage rate of over 0:14:48.280 --> 0:14:52.280 five thousand grams of lead per American per year. That 0:14:52.400 --> 0:14:56.400 is a rate almost ten times that of ancient Rome. 0:14:56.600 --> 0:15:00.440 And as we're recording right now, the effects are still 0:15:00.480 --> 0:15:04.520 with this country. Over one hundred and seventy million people 0:15:04.560 --> 0:15:08.479 alive today are estimated to have been exposed to dangerously 0:15:08.600 --> 0:15:10.960 high lead levels in early childhood. 0:15:11.080 --> 0:15:13.560 Well, yeah, let's talk about one of the primary things. 0:15:13.640 --> 0:15:18.920 Lead was used in toys. Lead toys were a big 0:15:18.960 --> 0:15:21.080 deal because it was so malleable. You could just make 0:15:21.160 --> 0:15:26.320 these easily produced, cheaply produced lead products that came out 0:15:26.600 --> 0:15:27.320 as toys. 0:15:27.840 --> 0:15:31.000 We're talking about little figurines, little windup guys and stuff 0:15:31.040 --> 0:15:33.240 like that. Like maybe what would have been used ten 0:15:33.360 --> 0:15:35.400 might have been used for but this is cheaper than 0:15:35.440 --> 0:15:37.720 ten and much more available and. 0:15:38.280 --> 0:15:40.520 You know, we're talking about the difference between having lead 0:15:40.560 --> 0:15:42.960 products versus ceramics or pottery and that kind of thing. 0:15:43.520 --> 0:15:47.160 The US decided, let's cover the the ceramics in this 0:15:47.320 --> 0:15:52.280 lead glaze stuff, so you're eating out of it. 0:15:53.400 --> 0:15:57.040 One thing that lead is still used for today is 0:15:57.120 --> 0:16:00.880 in sowder, you know, And a dear friend of mine 0:16:00.960 --> 0:16:04.880 who is a stained glass artist uses lead sowder because 0:16:04.920 --> 0:16:07.600 it is apparently the most malleable and the best version 0:16:07.760 --> 0:16:10.400 of that product that you can use. And so you 0:16:10.480 --> 0:16:12.640 do have to be very very careful when you're handling 0:16:12.680 --> 0:16:15.840 that stuff, and definitely don't lick your stained glass windows. 0:16:16.200 --> 0:16:19.440 I remember, I remember your friend Thal and I remember 0:16:19.480 --> 0:16:24.160 having fascinating conversations about the art of stained glass, and 0:16:24.200 --> 0:16:25.200 the lead thing was a. 0:16:25.200 --> 0:16:27.680 Surprise to me as well. 0:16:27.760 --> 0:16:32.360 No, we do have good news for anybody who's feeling 0:16:32.600 --> 0:16:36.320 a bit of a bummer about their childhood nostalgia. You know, 0:16:36.680 --> 0:16:41.400 I particularly remember toys that smelled awesome, But they smelled 0:16:41.440 --> 0:16:46.680 awesome because they were VOCs volatile organic compounds and also 0:16:46.840 --> 0:16:50.280 hot plastic exposed to heat off, gassing. All that, all 0:16:50.360 --> 0:16:52.239 the good stuff, all the slow jazz. 0:16:52.040 --> 0:16:56.160 Dude, even going fishing, the little sinkers they used to 0:16:56.480 --> 0:16:59.080 use for fishing, was so cheap to make them out 0:16:59.080 --> 0:17:02.880 of lead. All right, Yeah, so you're just going out there, 0:17:03.000 --> 0:17:05.000 just setting your line and everything and. 0:17:04.960 --> 0:17:09.320 Then just playing with lead, and then every time you 0:17:09.359 --> 0:17:12.240 open up your tackle box, just lead in there is. 0:17:12.400 --> 0:17:14.600 And the good news is because we want to have 0:17:14.640 --> 0:17:18.959 some good news at the top. Eventually Uncle Sam gets 0:17:19.000 --> 0:17:24.840 his stuff together and passes wide ranging regulations to lessen 0:17:25.200 --> 0:17:30.560 lead exposure, and today everybody acknowledges that lead exposure, especially 0:17:30.560 --> 0:17:38.080 in childhood, connects to serious cognitive hazards lower IQ, aggression, psychopathy. 0:17:37.400 --> 0:17:37.960 And so on. 0:17:38.600 --> 0:17:41.320 There's a great interview we'll get to a little bit 0:17:41.400 --> 0:17:44.560 later from a place called The Grist, where they point 0:17:44.560 --> 0:17:48.920 out that in kids, specifically in human children, lead can 0:17:49.040 --> 0:17:53.679 lead to behavior that's been described as cruel, impulsive, or 0:17:53.800 --> 0:17:57.320 crazy like. It's also been linked to a loss in 0:17:57.640 --> 0:18:01.440 brain volume as someone becomes an adult, particularly in men. 0:18:02.080 --> 0:18:07.080 But these realizations that Uncle Sam finally acknowledges, because they 0:18:07.160 --> 0:18:10.359 knew about it for decades. When they finally acknowledge it, 0:18:10.760 --> 0:18:16.320 it comes far after reparable intergenerational damage has already occurred. 0:18:16.400 --> 0:18:22.119 That takes us to tonight's theory. It's tough to Just 0:18:22.160 --> 0:18:27.280 like antient rome, it's tough to figure out the exact 0:18:27.800 --> 0:18:32.600 moments this kind of exposure manifest in a given society 0:18:32.680 --> 0:18:36.480 or civilization. Because there's so many people in communities evolved, 0:18:36.680 --> 0:18:40.199 it's even more difficult to figure out the ramifications. But 0:18:40.600 --> 0:18:44.719 just last year twenty twenty five, a Pulitzer Prize winning 0:18:44.840 --> 0:18:49.560 author named Caroline Fraser rocked the world when she claimed 0:18:49.560 --> 0:18:53.760 that widespread lead poisoning in the United States didn't just 0:18:53.920 --> 0:18:57.919 cause medical issues. She asked, what if all the leaded gas, 0:18:58.000 --> 0:19:01.360 and the smelting plants and all these other vectors weren't 0:19:01.400 --> 0:19:06.119 just making industry possible. What if led exposure also created 0:19:06.359 --> 0:19:11.160 serial killers. 0:19:12.800 --> 0:19:14.960 Here's where it gets crazy. 0:19:15.160 --> 0:19:17.720 It sounds nuts, right, but I think we can agree 0:19:17.840 --> 0:19:20.639 after we've all looked into this, there is some persuasive 0:19:20.760 --> 0:19:24.000 sand to this argument. Again, people in the ancient past 0:19:24.520 --> 0:19:29.200 biologically identical to people of the modern day, minus the microplastics. 0:19:29.800 --> 0:19:34.199 No population has at this point evolved any sort of 0:19:34.240 --> 0:19:39.440 immunity to the effects of lead poisoning. So the gist 0:19:39.480 --> 0:19:44.120 of the theory is, what if notorious serial killers who 0:19:44.320 --> 0:19:49.840 spent time in areas of contamination, specifically the Pacific Northwest 0:19:50.119 --> 0:19:56.080 were made into killers because of environmental contamination. That's what 0:19:56.200 --> 0:20:01.040 Fraser is writing about in her book Murderland and Bloodlust 0:20:01.080 --> 0:20:03.160 in the Time of serial Killers. 0:20:02.920 --> 0:20:06.600 Because we certainly do, at least to my memory, have 0:20:06.680 --> 0:20:10.440 a concentration of these high profile serial killer cases in 0:20:10.440 --> 0:20:11.400 that region. 0:20:11.240 --> 0:20:12.160 Oh one hundred percent. 0:20:12.240 --> 0:20:12.400 Well. 0:20:12.640 --> 0:20:16.560 Yeah, the book, which is a must read, by the way, 0:20:16.680 --> 0:20:20.280 check it out, folks. The book focuses a lot or 0:20:20.320 --> 0:20:24.360 spends a lot of time on the serial murderer Ted Bundy. 0:20:24.680 --> 0:20:27.680 But Bundy, to your point, there was one of at 0:20:27.760 --> 0:20:32.400 least like six or more serial killers active in Washington 0:20:32.520 --> 0:20:36.600 in nineteen seventy four alone. Also in nineteen seventy four, 0:20:37.040 --> 0:20:41.000 Washington's murder rate rose by thirty percent. That's more than 0:20:41.160 --> 0:20:43.320 thrice the rate of the rest of the country. 0:20:44.000 --> 0:20:44.959 Something was happening. 0:20:45.040 --> 0:20:50.320 Yeah, And Fraser takes a scientific approach to this concept 0:20:50.480 --> 0:20:54.560 and really digs deep, and she found a pattern through 0:20:54.560 --> 0:20:56.960 her research, a pattern showing that a lot of the 0:20:56.960 --> 0:21:00.240 folks who later became serial killers grew up near these 0:21:00.359 --> 0:21:05.000 toxic plumes that were generated by industrial operations. We are 0:21:05.040 --> 0:21:10.000 specifically talking about these substances sulfur dioxide, arsenic and daint 0:21:10.040 --> 0:21:15.600 ding dang lead emanating from the smoke stacks of smelting factories, 0:21:15.600 --> 0:21:20.680 specifically one in Rustin outside of Tacoma there in Washington State. 0:21:21.200 --> 0:21:24.960 Let, which is part of why locals in the area 0:21:25.160 --> 0:21:28.920 at the time had a phrase describing the smell. They 0:21:28.960 --> 0:21:31.639 called it the aroma of Tacoma. 0:21:32.960 --> 0:21:33.440 That's cut. 0:21:33.680 --> 0:21:36.439 That's good branding. Maybe not for the best you know, product, 0:21:36.520 --> 0:21:37.160 but yeah. 0:21:36.920 --> 0:21:39.800 There's an aroma of like the coming Georgia area and 0:21:39.840 --> 0:21:43.760 some of these northern towns just paper mills just north well, no, 0:21:44.080 --> 0:21:48.760 it wasn't paper mills, plant farms there you go, chicken processingham, 0:21:49.080 --> 0:21:52.440 shaking farms, excrement, and then the blood and inns and 0:21:52.920 --> 0:21:56.400 all the nastiness of all those Yeah, paper mills smell. 0:21:56.600 --> 0:21:59.480 Yeah, you go south of Atlanta, you'll also run into 0:21:59.640 --> 0:22:04.400 dog food factories, which have a very particular smell that 0:22:04.560 --> 0:22:06.440 insists upon itself. 0:22:07.160 --> 0:22:11.920 The travel through the Midwest, and it's just Kalman Kalman. 0:22:12.760 --> 0:22:15.720 I don't think kalmanure smells that bad. That quote's going 0:22:15.800 --> 0:22:18.280 to be fraying out of context. 0:22:17.840 --> 0:22:20.040 Yeah right, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, put that on the book. 0:22:20.119 --> 0:22:24.119 Jack April twenty six, kalmaneure I don't think it smells 0:22:24.160 --> 0:22:24.879 that bad. 0:22:25.200 --> 0:22:26.800 I don't know what you're all talking about. 0:22:26.960 --> 0:22:32.600 Okay, horse maneure. Not all manure is terrible anyway. Uh 0:22:32.680 --> 0:22:34.040 there is a oh. 0:22:33.920 --> 0:22:36.800 We should do an episode on fertilizer too, anyway. Uh 0:22:37.000 --> 0:22:42.200 there is a yeah, yes, sir, there it's hot. There 0:22:42.280 --> 0:22:46.320 is a smelting company a particular interest to Fraser in 0:22:46.400 --> 0:22:50.680 this book. It is called the American Smelting and Refining Company, 0:22:50.920 --> 0:22:55.480 or a SARCO for short sa r COO. Shout out 0:22:55.520 --> 0:22:56.280 to the google. 0:22:56.119 --> 0:22:59.920 Heims, the Guggenheim, Guggenheims. Yeah, the gougendtheim Gougendtheims. 0:23:00.200 --> 0:23:06.120 This is part of how they made so much money. 0:23:04.560 --> 0:23:10.040 They acquired a SARCO or controlling shares of it. So 0:23:10.440 --> 0:23:13.320 going back to the point we made at the top 0:23:13.480 --> 0:23:18.199 about the profit motive, right, this devilish bargain. We know 0:23:18.400 --> 0:23:22.560 that in nineteen seventy four the officials kind of the 0:23:22.600 --> 0:23:27.400