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Speaker 1: Why from our nations this budget thing is going to

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Speaker 1: do nothing Space Force. I still think it's interesting President

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Speaker 1: Trump not playing his cards yet Headlines Policy and Politics,

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Speaker 1: colliding to sound on with Kevin Relate, the insiders, the influencers,

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Speaker 1: the insiders. I would rather see a congressional solution. It's

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Speaker 1: part of my DNA. The Senate map in looks a

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Speaker 1: lot different than it looked in. You really have a

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Speaker 1: divide within Team Trump. The president has to do exactly

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Speaker 1: what people send him here to do, which is to

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Speaker 1: get it done. He's sound on with Kevin Relate on

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Radio. Happy Mueller Day. The redacted version of Special

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Speaker 1: Counsel Bob Mueller's investigation now out in the public. We

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Speaker 1: have complete reaction from the White House, Democrats and Republicans alike,

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Speaker 1: an all star panel to walk us through this, including

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg News, White House reporter Shannon Petty, Peace, Democratic strategist

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Speaker 1: Dave Brown. He's a former advisor to Senator Pat Murray

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Speaker 1: and Jason Miller. He's former senior communications advisor for the

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Speaker 1: Trump campaign and former communications director for the Trump Transition.

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Speaker 1: Now he's the managing director at Tanao. And Meanwhile, the

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Speaker 1: fallout continues, as there are now increasing calls for Special

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Speaker 1: Counsel Bob Mueller to testify on Capitol Hill. How soon

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Speaker 1: could that happen? Special Counsel Robert Mueller delivering an exhaustive

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Speaker 1: account of President Donald Trump's efforts to head off or

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Speaker 1: undermine the Special Counsel's Russia probe, all but inviting Congress

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Speaker 1: to take action on at least ten instances of potential

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Speaker 1: obstruction of justice. Now, President Trump at the White House

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Speaker 1: earlier today saying that it was a good day. I

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Speaker 1: President was having an event with wounded warriors, and and

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Speaker 1: he was ecstatic. By all accounts, he viewed this as

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Speaker 1: an opportunity to turn the page. This is the more

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Speaker 1: than four hundred page document of the redacted version of

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Speaker 1: Special Counsel Robert Mueller's report was released. Democrats saying that

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Speaker 1: they want to hear from Bob Muller testify. So much,

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Speaker 1: so much to unpack through all of this. It's why

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Speaker 1: I'm so glad that my colleague Shannon Petty, piece of

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg News White House reporter, is with me. Shannon, I

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Speaker 1: want to play for you what President Trump had to

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Speaker 1: to to tell us what you're reporting has been throughout

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Speaker 1: the day and whether or not the President should be

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Speaker 1: as happy as he is. Here's President Trump. I'm having

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Speaker 1: a good day too. Who was gold? No collusion, no obstruction? Alright?

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Speaker 1: So is this game over? As as the President tweeted

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Speaker 1: out with the Game of Thrones reference earlier today, I

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Speaker 1: think it now depends on what Congress does UM on

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Speaker 1: the obstruction piece. Mueller laid out a pretty thick, detailed,

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Speaker 1: lengthy um list of evidence I'll say on obstruction. Uh,

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Speaker 1: the Attorney General has made his assessment that this does

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Speaker 1: not amount to obstruction. Mueller really left the door open

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Speaker 1: and it is definitely not exoneration from Muller on obstruction.

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Speaker 1: There is a lot in there, and I think it's

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Speaker 1: comes down to a legal argument of you know your

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Speaker 1: view on the law, and I think two very smart

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Speaker 1: lawyers Muller and bar could come to different conclusions about

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Speaker 1: what the law is. UM. But I mean where we

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Speaker 1: pick up uh that evidence and use that for an

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Speaker 1: obstruction investigation. Shannon Petty Peace, my colleague, she covers the

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Speaker 1: White House for Bloomberg News. You mentioned congressional reaction. We're

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Speaker 1: going to hear from a Republican and a Democrat coming

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Speaker 1: up later on in the show, Congressman Denver Riggleman, a Republican,

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Speaker 1: to get their takes on this. It's not just politics

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Speaker 1: that we're following, however. Coming up will also dive into

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Speaker 1: the economic implications of this report. There were some big

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Speaker 1: tech companies that were named in this. Let's not forget

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Speaker 1: And then, of course there is this notion of what

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Speaker 1: precisely this means for the president's agenda moving forward. Will

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Speaker 1: Democrats try to not just get Bob Mueller to testify

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Speaker 1: even as Shannon alluded to bring up the charges of

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Speaker 1: obstruction of justice. Jason Miller is former senior communications advisor

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Speaker 1: for the Trump campaign. He's also the former communications director

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Speaker 1: for the Trump Transition and now a managing director at

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Speaker 1: Seneo Strategy. He's with me for the hour in studio.

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Speaker 1: And Dave Brown, Democratic strategist and former senior advisor to

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Speaker 1: Senator Patty Murray. Dave, I'll start with you, because really

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Speaker 1: the balls and Democrats court. What are you hearing from

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Speaker 1: Democrats as to what the position is going to be

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Speaker 1: moving forward? Well, I think you saw with with Chairman

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Speaker 1: Nadler and Chairman Chiff and others, the immediate requests that

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Speaker 1: the relevant committees of jurisdiction on the Hill. And I

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Speaker 1: Um Mueller really did lay out a very strong roadmap

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Speaker 1: for Congress should Congress wish to take further action in

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Speaker 1: terms of investigating the president's conduct. You mentioned the House

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Speaker 1: Judiciary Committee Chairman Jerry Nadler. He's a Democrat from New York.

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Speaker 1: He was at a press briefing earlier in New York.

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Speaker 1: Jason Miller. I'm gonna play for you what Chairman Nadler said,

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Speaker 1: and I want to get your response to it. Here's

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Speaker 1: Chairman Nadler earlier today. I think it was probably written

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Speaker 1: with the intent of providing Congress or roadmap, as as

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Speaker 1: other reports have in the past, and UH, with a

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Speaker 1: lot of the readactions and others, UH, Attorney General bar

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Speaker 1: seems to be trying to frustrate that intent. Alright, So

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Speaker 1: where is this road leading, Jason Miller? I think it's

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Speaker 1: leading to President Trump serving two terms, to be honest

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Speaker 1: with you, I mean, the fact of the matter is

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Speaker 1: is Mueller's report doesn't have anything about collusion, doesn't have

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Speaker 1: anything about obstruction. And Mueller's a very serious, substantial player

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Speaker 1: in this game. And if he had found something definitively

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Speaker 1: saying that there was obstruction, he would have recommended finally

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Speaker 1: charges on it. He would have just handed off to

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Speaker 1: Congress and say here's a roadmap and you can do it.

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Speaker 1: But you see, we've spent this two years on this

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Speaker 1: Russia which hunt hoax, and you think of the opportunities

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Speaker 1: that have been lost on the public policy side, and

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Speaker 1: the fact that President Trump has been able to get

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Speaker 1: as much done as he had. I mean, think about

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Speaker 1: if we spent one tenth of the amount of time

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Speaker 1: on the crisis at the southern border, then we've spent

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Speaker 1: on this Russia hoax over the last two years. Or

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Speaker 1: any of the other I mean even issues on the

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Speaker 1: left that are out there. We're talking about education, or

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Speaker 1: climate change, or cutting taxes or more deregulation, all of

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Speaker 1: these different issues we could have been talking about, but

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Speaker 1: we've wasted it on this hoax. And I think the

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Speaker 1: one important thing that point out here is not only

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Speaker 1: was there no collusion between President Trump or his campaign,

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Speaker 1: there was no collusion or coordination with a foreign entity

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Speaker 1: from a single American. And I think that's a really

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Speaker 1: important point, not one American. Um. So Jason. If Democrats,

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Speaker 1: let's say, they don't go as far as impeachment, but

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Speaker 1: they do keep this issue carrying on into the election, Um,

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Speaker 1: of course there was no Um. You know, Mueller did

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Speaker 1: say had he found a clear evidence that there was

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Speaker 1: no obstruction, he would say no obstruction. But then, of

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Speaker 1: course he didn't say there was obstruction eitherwise. So if

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Speaker 1: Democrats keep it going in through, is that good or

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Speaker 1: bad for Trump? I think that's it's a huge win

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Speaker 1: for the president. I think if they keep hitting on

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Speaker 1: this when it's so clear that there's no collusion, there

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Speaker 1: was no recommendation to push forward on obstruction. If they

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Speaker 1: want to keep hitting this, I think that's going to

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Speaker 1: be a big loss. Means they're not talking about healthcare,

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Speaker 1: they're not talking about any of the issues they'd want

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Speaker 1: to be talking about. Yeah, Jason, I'm not sure if

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Speaker 1: you read the same or what I did. Mueller expressly

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Speaker 1: said if I could absolve the president of obstruction of justice,

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Speaker 1: I would, but I can't, so I'm not going to,

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Speaker 1: which is why this now falls to Congress. All right,

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Speaker 1: coming up, we're gonna have much more on the politics

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Speaker 1: and the policy of the Mullo report, and we hear

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Speaker 1: from Congressman Denver Riggleman. He's a member of the House

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Speaker 1: Financial Services Committee, a Republican from Virginia. Panel stays and remember,

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Speaker 1: you can download the Sound On podcast on Apple iTunes,

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Speaker 1: at Bloomberg dot com, or by downloading the Bloomberg Business app.

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Speaker 1: You can also find us at Radio dot com, I

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Speaker 1: Heart Radio, and Spotify. I'm Kevin CURRELLI you're listening to

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Speaker 1: sound On. This is Bloomberg. There was a moment today

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Speaker 1: at the White House during President Trump's engagement speaking engagement

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Speaker 1: with wounded warriors when I was in the room him

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Speaker 1: and I was taken back to the campaign trail when

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Speaker 1: I covered then candidate Donald Trump, and in many ways

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Speaker 1: today could have been essentially the morning after the election.

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Speaker 1: It was that feel inside of the West Wing when

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Speaker 1: I was interacting with staffers and even to some extent

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Speaker 1: members of the of the of the Press Corps, because

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Speaker 1: there was this sense that this was a turning point

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Speaker 1: in the administration. Yes, we had that feeling when Attorney

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Speaker 1: General William Barr released that four page report a couple

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Speaker 1: of weeks ago, but it was even more so today.

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Speaker 1: There wasn't the same type of reaction or even uncertainty

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Speaker 1: amongst the Republican caucus on Capitol Hill lawmakers still in

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Speaker 1: congressional recess, but there wasn't the same type of questions

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Speaker 1: that we saw, and really what emerged was a unified

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Speaker 1: Republican Party in many ways this as there still are

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Speaker 1: many unanswered questions following the redacted release of Robert Mueller's

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Speaker 1: investigation into Russian election interference. We're gonna hear coming up

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Speaker 1: from a Democratic Congressman John Gara Mendi from California. But

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Speaker 1: first joining us on the line, it's Congressman Denver Riggelman.

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Speaker 1: He is a Republican serving Virginia. He's also a member

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Speaker 1: of the Important House Financial Services Committee and the vice

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Speaker 1: and Monetary Policy, and a sub subcommittee member on Consumer

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Speaker 1: Protection for Financial Institutions. Congressman, thank you for joining us

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Speaker 1: on the line. What's your reaction tonight to the Muller

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Speaker 1: redacted report. Well, you know you said it, um, they're

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Speaker 1: in the beginning, about at the beginning when we saw

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Speaker 1: the initial four page letter. Okay, there's no collusion. But

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Speaker 1: my initial reaction when looking at that and looking at

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Speaker 1: what's happening on both sides, I guess it was, well,

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Speaker 1: it figures, um, so not quite probably what you thought, Kevin.

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Speaker 1: And the thing is, it figures that we'd have this

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Speaker 1: political bashing start immediately, you know, not only on a

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Speaker 1: g bar right specifically that he's Trump's personal loyal lawyer,

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Speaker 1: but also on what we should be happy about, are

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Speaker 1: not happy about, and sort of parsing all this language.

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Speaker 1: So it's again, it's this thing that I think the

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Speaker 1: American people are exhausted, and instead of looking to get

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Speaker 1: things done, we're immediately right back into are we gonna

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Speaker 1: have a year and a half, you know, of us

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Speaker 1: going back and forth and Congress doing nothing but talking

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Speaker 1: about now changing the you know, the game to obstruction

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Speaker 1: or changing the game to other wording or whatnot, instead

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Speaker 1: of getting things done for the American people. So really

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Speaker 1: my reaction was at figures. Congressman Denver Riggleman, Republican serving Virginia.

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Speaker 1: He's a former US Air Force officer, a National Security

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Speaker 1: Agency contractor. From your perspective, take away the politics for

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Speaker 1: a second, because there is this this alarming narrative that

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Speaker 1: has urged based on the intelligence community over the past

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Speaker 1: two years about a hostile foreign power, Russia trying to

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Speaker 1: impact US democratic lowercase D institutions as well as in Europe.

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Speaker 1: That should alarm all Americans regardless of party. No, it should,

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Speaker 1: and there was you know, I'm reading the report word

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Speaker 1: for word and actually going back to figure out the

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Speaker 1: redactive parts based on my experience not only in tactic

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Speaker 1: and operational intelligence, but strategic intelligence. I think there's three

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Speaker 1: things the American public should be angry about. Um. First

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Speaker 1: of all, you can say that Russia being an adversary

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Speaker 1: and messing with our elections can be mutually exclusive from

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Speaker 1: Those could be mutually exclusive. That's okay, Democrats, that's the

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Speaker 1: first thing. But the three things that would make me angry.

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Speaker 1: Number one is Russia is our adversary. We better, we

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Speaker 1: better identify that. And why aren't we doing more in

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Speaker 1: the computer network operations? Hehere um when you look on

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Speaker 1: page thirty six, Actually, Kevin O the report between thirty

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Speaker 1: six and thirty seven, it talks about spear fishing so

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Speaker 1: that they can secure bitcoins used to purchase computer infrastructure,

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Speaker 1: and hacking operations, which you know that's what I do

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Speaker 1: on financial services. There are some very incredible facts in

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Speaker 1: And number two and to say is it doesn't sell right,

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Speaker 1: it's it's not selatus. Number three or number two are

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Speaker 1: FISA system is broken. I actually had to present evidence

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Speaker 1: I think we need to see that. I g report

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Speaker 1: on FISA specifically, and I'd love to see that because

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Speaker 1: I have some experience. And the third thing, the American

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Speaker 1: people are tired, and I think we go back to governing.

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Speaker 1: I have other issues in the fifth district I want

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Speaker 1: to worry about, you know, rather than you know, Democrats

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Speaker 1: screaming into a popcorn box as loud as they can

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Speaker 1: where it's muffled and you're not quite sure what they're saying.

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Speaker 1: And I'd like to just get onto governing because we

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Speaker 1: do have some bipartisan bills out there I'd like to

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Speaker 1: get through. And this new left or far left screaming

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Speaker 1: think people are just tired of it. I want to

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Speaker 1: take it back to policy. Congressman Denver Riggleman, Republicans serving

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Speaker 1: Virginia in terms of cryptocurrency, what specifically and quickly if you,

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Speaker 1: if you would not to rush you, but what should

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Speaker 1: specifically be done to address some of the concerns and

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Speaker 1: crypto and bitcoin in the Mulla report really to hought's

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Speaker 1: being used and were it originated? You know, if they're

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Speaker 1: creating this, you know, if they're creating bitcoin, right, how's

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Speaker 1: it being utilized? Where is it being transferred to and from?

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Speaker 1: And you know, and how are they identifying and how

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Speaker 1: are they cashing that in? And I think if you

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Speaker 1: start looking at the file the money, the same thing

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Speaker 1: you would do with fiat currency. I mean, we can

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Speaker 1: use some of the same procedures. It's a little more

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Speaker 1: technical and complicated, but at some point we gotta have

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Speaker 1: clear guidance right through finsen through financial crimes, right, we

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Speaker 1: have to have clear guidance and what we're supposed to

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Speaker 1: be doing with crypto, and we need to have better. Honestly,

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Speaker 1: we have to have a technology push, and I want

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Speaker 1: to tell you what it is, Kevin, and I might

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Speaker 1: be a little differ here than other people. Instead of

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Speaker 1: looking at and looking at bitcoin and crypto and trying

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Speaker 1: to regulate everything, why don't we have an offensive policy

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Speaker 1: where a strong cyber offense is the best defense. And

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Speaker 1: I think you've got to switch the way that we

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Speaker 1: look at the things technically. All right, that's Congressman Denver Riggelman,

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Speaker 1: a Republican from Virginia. We appreciate you joining us. Coming up,

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Speaker 1: the Democrats, respond Congressman John Garamendi, a Democrat from California.

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Speaker 1: I'm Kevin Cirelli. You can download the sound on podcast

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Speaker 1: on Apple iTunes at the Bloomberg Business app. We're on

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Speaker 1: radio dot Com. I heart radio and Spotify. You're listening

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Speaker 1: to sound on. This is Bloomberg. A busy day here

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Speaker 1: in Washington. I'm Kevin Cirelli, Bloomberg Television and Bloomberg Radio

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Speaker 1: Chief Washington corresponded. Earlier, we were talking about the policy

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Speaker 1: implications of the more than four hundred page redacted version

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Speaker 1: of the Mueller Report. Congressman Denver Riggleman, a Republican from Virginia,

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Speaker 1: joined us. He raised some concerns about the Russian interference,

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Speaker 1: particularly how they use cryptocurrency. Now, he of course is

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Speaker 1: a Republican. He said that Democrats are going to continue

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Speaker 1: to whack on this political pinata and said that this

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Speaker 1: settled the issue of collusion. But joining me now is

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Speaker 1: Congressman John Garamandy. He's on the telephone line. He is

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Speaker 1: a Democrat from California. And Congressman, I take it you

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Speaker 1: have a different perspective on whether or not the issue

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Speaker 1: of obstruction of justice was settled by the release of

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Speaker 1: this redacted report. Well, the report speaks for itself. The

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Speaker 1: report clearly lays out the American democracy was under attacked

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Speaker 1: by Russia. The report clearly lays out that the president

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Speaker 1: encouraged that attack, while he may not have conspired with

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Speaker 1: the Russians, he sure as hell encourage it. How many

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Speaker 1: times did we see in montelevision encouraging wiki leaks who

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Speaker 1: we knew at that time had received the information from

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Speaker 1: the Russians, We knew about the Russian hack of the

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Speaker 1: d m C and the John Podesta. All of that

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Speaker 1: is in the report. The report absolutely clearly plays out

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Speaker 1: that the president encouraged the Russian attack on the American election. Now,

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Speaker 1: with regard to the issue of obstruction of justice, the

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Speaker 1: Milor report laid out ten specific avenues that they investigated.

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Speaker 1: That they did not come to a conclusion that there

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Speaker 1: was a crime, but they clearly laid out that there

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Speaker 1: was m issues of obstruction. Now, whether it rose to

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Speaker 1: a level of climb or not climb or not, that

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Speaker 1: was not determined. Clearly, the President was not absolved of

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Speaker 1: the issue of obstructing justice. There are ten avenues, and

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Speaker 1: the converse of the United States must continue. You it's

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Speaker 1: investigations on all of these fronts. On the front of

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Speaker 1: the Russian involvement in the election, the next election is

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Speaker 1: less than nineteen months, twenty months away. The eighteen months away,

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Speaker 1: we know that that they're still out there. We do

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Speaker 1: know that in this people that the president, the President

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Speaker 1: of the United States, spent two years trying to destroy

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Speaker 1: the Department of Justice and the Intelligence community. Right now,

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Speaker 1: where going to go? I don't know, but this is

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Speaker 1: a damning report of the actions of the President of

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Speaker 1: the United States and many of his henchmen. Congressman John

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Speaker 1: Gara Mendi. He is a Democrat representing California. He is

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Speaker 1: a member of the Armed Services and Transportation and Infrastructure Committees. Congressman,

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Speaker 1: for a second, take a pause on the politics of this,

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Speaker 1: and let's just not lose sight. Russia a hostile foreign government,

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Speaker 1: and Congressman Rigelman earlier was saying, this really impacting not

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Speaker 1: just US elections, but also European elections. I mean this

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Speaker 1: should unite US. No, well, I absolutely should united and

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Speaker 1: the problem continues on with this present. Let me just

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Speaker 1: give you an example. He's determined that his political future

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Speaker 1: is a big, beautiful border wall that Mexico was supposed

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Speaker 1: to but we'll not pay for. I'll tell you who's

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Speaker 1: paying for it. It's the American military. It is the

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Speaker 1: people that we rely upon to keep our country safe

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Speaker 1: into pushback against Russia. Right now, He has taken a

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Speaker 1: billion dollars out of the Department of Defense to build

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Speaker 1: his wall at the very same time that the US

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Speaker 1: Air Force and the Marine Corps is suffering over a

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Speaker 1: billion and a half dollars a direct damage through their

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Speaker 1: two key installations Camp in June and Cherry Point for

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Speaker 1: the Marines, and Tindall Air Force Base, which is the

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Speaker 1: basic fighter uh exercise base in the Florida Peninsula. That's

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Speaker 1: a floor. Excuse me, that is an eight billion dollar

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Speaker 1: reconstruction project. And the President wants not just the billion

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Speaker 1: that he's already thinking, he wants another six billion out

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Speaker 1: of the military. Don't give me any of this talk

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Speaker 1: about he's caring for the American military bologny. That's not true.

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Speaker 1: He's ripping their gut. He's ripping off the American military

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Speaker 1: at a time when they desperately need the what amaut.

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Speaker 1: The public needs to understand, your folks need to understand

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Speaker 1: what this president is doing. He is doing a harm

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Speaker 1: to our military service, the Air Force to spend seven

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Speaker 1: forty million dollars trying to clean up in the Air

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Speaker 1: Force space. Where that money come from. It came from

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Speaker 1: all of readiness, It came from all of the other

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Speaker 1: things the Air Force needs to do to protect us

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Speaker 1: against Russia. Conressute, Congress, when we've got less than a

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Speaker 1: minute left, Do you think that this settles the issue

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Speaker 1: of impeachment? Absolutely not. This doesn't settle any issue. But

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Speaker 1: the Mola report does is to layout to the American

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Speaker 1: public that this president has operated in a way that

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Speaker 1: has never ever occurred by any other president throughout the

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Speaker 1: history of this nation. That there was and effort by

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Speaker 1: the Russian government the interfering the campaign, and clearly Trump

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Speaker 1: and his people encouraged it, even though they may not

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Speaker 1: have colluded. And clearly there are ten avenues in which

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Speaker 1: the President may have obstructed justice. Even though Moller didn't

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Speaker 1: come to a conclusion on that, he laid that out

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Speaker 1: and the Congress of the United States Senateent House has

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Speaker 1: to investigate this, alright, alright. Congressman John Garamandi a Democrat

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Speaker 1: from California. He's a member of the Armed Services Committee

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Speaker 1: and the Transportation and Infrastructure Committee. Congressman, I know you're

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Speaker 1: busy and I gotta let you go, so thank you

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Speaker 1: for joining me. Appreciate the time coming up. Full reaction

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Speaker 1: from the lawmaker response on the Mother Report. You can

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Speaker 1: download the sound On podcast on Apple iTunes, at Bloomberg

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Speaker 1: dot com, or by downloading the Bloomberg Business app. You

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Speaker 1: can also check us out on Radio dot com, I

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Speaker 1: Heart Radio, and Spotify. I'm Kevin Cerelli, Chief Washington correspondent

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Speaker 1: for Bloomberg Television and Bloomberg Radio, and you're listening to

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Speaker 1: sound on. This is Bloomberg. It's Muellermania. Redacted version of

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Speaker 1: that more than four hundred page release of the Mueller Report.

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Speaker 1: Redacted version finally made public. A lot of key takeaways.

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Speaker 1: I'm Kevin Cerelli, Bloomberg Television and Radio Chief Washington correspondent,

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Speaker 1: coming from Washington, d C. And here to walk us

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Speaker 1: through it. We had great lawmakers on Congressman Denver Riggleman,

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Speaker 1: a Republican from Virginia, and Congressman John Garamendi, a Democrat

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Speaker 1: from California. They really don't agree on much, but they

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Speaker 1: do agree that Russia try to impact the last election,

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Speaker 1: and that's something ought to be done to stop at

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Speaker 1: Jason mill Ler is with me in studio. He's a

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Speaker 1: former senior communications advisor for the Trump campaign and former

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Speaker 1: communications director for the Trump Transition. Now he's a managing

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Speaker 1: director at ten a O Strategy. Also with me in

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Speaker 1: studio Dave Brown. He's a Democratic strategist and former advisor

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Speaker 1: to Senator Patty Murray. All right, Jason, so where do

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Speaker 1: we go from here in the sense of dig deeper

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Speaker 1: beyond the mainstream back and forth with the left and

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Speaker 1: the right, but from the perspective of national security, there

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Speaker 1: now is, as we heard from Republicans and Democrats, a

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Speaker 1: sense of agreement that the Russians conducted by the Internet

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Speaker 1: Research Agency the i r A as it's known, the

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Speaker 1: Russians use their their web arms, so to speak, to

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Speaker 1: infiltrate social media platforms and use things like cryptocurrency from

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Speaker 1: a business perspective, regardless of a party here in j

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Speaker 1: And that's gotta that's gotta ring some alarms, absolutely, And

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Speaker 1: I think that there's gonna be a real reckoning here

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Speaker 1: that we're starting to see already with the social media

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Speaker 1: um companies in the various different platforms. But I think

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Speaker 1: this is something that we really need to get the

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Speaker 1: right safeguards in place and dive into it. Obviously, someone

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Speaker 1: like current Congressman dever Riggleman is gonna be a much

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Speaker 1: more authoritative voice on this than I am. But one

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Speaker 1: thing's keep in mind here, it's not just the Russians,

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Speaker 1: and we're talking about the Russians in the context of

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Speaker 1: this election. There are other countries China that would be

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Speaker 1: much more concerned about in elections going forward. But that's

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Speaker 1: also to say that it might not even be a country.

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Speaker 1: It might be a a non state actor that gets

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Speaker 1: in and tries to influence elections. And so I think

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Speaker 1: this is a real issue. It is something that I

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Speaker 1: wish the administration was much more vocal on and taking

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Speaker 1: a more aggressive posture to because this is a national threat.

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Speaker 1: Anything that's an attack on our democracy and institution, I

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Speaker 1: think we got to call out. You know, Jason, I

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Speaker 1: want to play now for you as well as for

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Speaker 1: Dave Brown and Democratic Strategist a sound bite from earlier today.

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Speaker 1: He's the House Judiciary Committee chairman, Jerry Nadler. He's a

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Speaker 1: Democrat from New York. He gave a press briefing following

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Speaker 1: the release of this and it it struck me when

430
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Speaker 1: Congressman John Garamendi said that that the Mueller report doesn't

431
00:25:18,359 --> 00:25:20,920
Speaker 1: settle the issue of impeachment, and Dave Brown I saw

432
00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:24,119
Speaker 1: your ears perk up during that because as a democratic strategist,

433
00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:27,280
Speaker 1: I mean, you know this speaker Nancy Pelosi, she bristles

434
00:25:27,320 --> 00:25:29,919
Speaker 1: at the at the the impeachment chatter because of what

435
00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:33,680
Speaker 1: that could do from a legislative calendar perspective. But Congressman

436
00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:36,200
Speaker 1: Garret Mandy, a Democrat in California, says that the release

437
00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:38,920
Speaker 1: of this Muddler report does not settle that issue. And

438
00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:41,960
Speaker 1: I want to play for you what Chairman Nadler said

439
00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:44,919
Speaker 1: and get your response. Here's Chairman Nadler. Even in its

440
00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:49,399
Speaker 1: incomplete form, however, the Muller Report outlines disturbing evidence that

441
00:25:49,480 --> 00:25:54,199
Speaker 1: President Trump engaged in obstruction of justice and others. So,

442
00:25:54,320 --> 00:25:57,920
Speaker 1: regardless of your political stripes, if you read this report,

443
00:25:58,880 --> 00:26:02,880
Speaker 1: the Mueller Report says that there were areas ten instances

444
00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:06,400
Speaker 1: in particular, in which the President tried to intervene in

445
00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:09,359
Speaker 1: the investigation. Ultimately, there were no charges of obstruction of

446
00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:12,560
Speaker 1: justice found. There also was no there was no direct

447
00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:15,400
Speaker 1: link to collusion found in the report. But from your

448
00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:19,879
Speaker 1: perspective as a democratic strategist, should Democrats go down this

449
00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:23,240
Speaker 1: impeachment trail? Let me let me answer that. But first

450
00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:25,520
Speaker 1: let me just correct something you said, which is this

451
00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:29,720
Speaker 1: the reason that Mueller didn't charge, especially on obstruction of justices.

452
00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:32,280
Speaker 1: He can't. There's a standing policy. It's it's a half

453
00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:34,359
Speaker 1: century old with the Department of Justice that you cannot

454
00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:37,240
Speaker 1: charge a sitting president. So when people talk about obstruction

455
00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:39,240
Speaker 1: and collusion, and by the way, what they're talking about

456
00:26:39,280 --> 00:26:43,479
Speaker 1: collusion is criminal conspiracy, there's a reason that Mueller didn't charge. However,

457
00:26:43,560 --> 00:26:45,199
Speaker 1: and as we talked about earlier in this program, the

458
00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:48,159
Speaker 1: fact that he didn't exonerate the president and said expressly,

459
00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:51,439
Speaker 1: had the evidence supported exonerating this president on obstruction, we

460
00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:53,800
Speaker 1: would have so done so, but we're not going to

461
00:26:54,320 --> 00:26:56,840
Speaker 1: that's the roadmap. That's a signal to Congress. That's where

462
00:26:56,880 --> 00:26:58,520
Speaker 1: Nadler is really keying in on. And so do your

463
00:26:58,560 --> 00:27:01,240
Speaker 1: question about impeachment. I mean, look, I actually think the

464
00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:04,199
Speaker 1: real question that that Trump's lawyers are probably parsing right

465
00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:06,600
Speaker 1: now is whether he is exposed to criminal jeopardy the

466
00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:08,840
Speaker 1: second he leaves office. Because Mueller also said in the

467
00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:12,000
Speaker 1: report that he wanted to create a record while memories

468
00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:14,600
Speaker 1: were fresh, and that record that he's now giving to Congress.

469
00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:18,040
Speaker 1: Congress is going to exercise its oversight responsibility and whether

470
00:27:18,119 --> 00:27:19,600
Speaker 1: or not we get to peachment, I think it's premature.

471
00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:21,480
Speaker 1: I think we actually need to hear from Mueller himself. First.

472
00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:24,560
Speaker 1: All right, well, I view that as an artful dodge because,

473
00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:30,880
Speaker 1: first and foremost, the first and foremost Dave Brown Democratic strategies,

474
00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:33,879
Speaker 1: there's legal debate as to whether or not there can

475
00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:35,959
Speaker 1: be charges brought against the sitting president or he can

476
00:27:35,960 --> 00:27:39,920
Speaker 1: be indicted. So we'll leave that, we'll leave that aside.

477
00:27:40,520 --> 00:27:44,840
Speaker 1: Should Democrats, should Nancy Pelosi, Speaker of the House, continue

478
00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:50,480
Speaker 1: on the investigation or the the conversation surrounding impeachment is

479
00:27:50,560 --> 00:27:53,000
Speaker 1: on the spot? I think did What the Speaker will

480
00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:56,840
Speaker 1: do is allow the committees of jurisdiction to conduct the

481
00:27:56,920 --> 00:27:59,040
Speaker 1: kind of oversight they need to conduct on the basis

482
00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:01,440
Speaker 1: of what's in this report. If that leads just an impeachment,

483
00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:05,360
Speaker 1: it's way too premature. But the question of shic Congress

484
00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:08,840
Speaker 1: actually investigate what Mueller has laid out the blueprint he's

485
00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:11,560
Speaker 1: left the roadmap. Of course, that's part of their constitutional

486
00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:14,440
Speaker 1: prerogative and responsibility. So here's where I have an issue

487
00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:19,280
Speaker 1: with that. And former Director Muehler did not say anywhere

488
00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:23,560
Speaker 1: that there was this was a the president should be

489
00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:26,960
Speaker 1: charged with obstruction or say this was a clear cut

490
00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:30,320
Speaker 1: case of obstruction. He's a very serious guy. As I

491
00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:32,200
Speaker 1: said earlier, if there was something that was a clear

492
00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:36,160
Speaker 1: cut case of obstruction he would have recommended. I would

493
00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:38,560
Speaker 1: say they should have gone and push for charges on that.

494
00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:41,840
Speaker 1: And where I have an issue, especially with Chairman Nabler

495
00:28:41,920 --> 00:28:43,480
Speaker 1: in his comments earlier. So we need to get to

496
00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:45,800
Speaker 1: the bottom of it. And so after the election, we

497
00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:47,600
Speaker 1: had the popular vote than we had it was all

498
00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:50,160
Speaker 1: Coombe's fault. There was a Russian collusion. Then when the

499
00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:52,080
Speaker 1: four page summary came out, we have to wait for

500
00:28:52,080 --> 00:28:55,320
Speaker 1: the four let me let me just so we have

501
00:28:55,360 --> 00:28:56,800
Speaker 1: the four report and that so we have to get

502
00:28:56,800 --> 00:28:59,480
Speaker 1: the under adapted report. At a certain point, this isn't

503
00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:01,800
Speaker 1: going to change at the fact that Hillary Clinton lost

504
00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:05,000
Speaker 1: and President Trump is the rightful president. Jason, Jason, you

505
00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:06,560
Speaker 1: and I have read the same report. We read the

506
00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:09,000
Speaker 1: same introduction when he lays out as part of the

507
00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:11,960
Speaker 1: governing law that his team held themselves to, in which

508
00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:14,800
Speaker 1: he says, we cannot nor will we charge a sitting

509
00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:17,239
Speaker 1: president because that's governing d o J policy. So we're

510
00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:19,120
Speaker 1: not going to do that no matter what we find,

511
00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:21,040
Speaker 1: and you can read this yourself in the report. No

512
00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:23,280
Speaker 1: matter what we find, we're not going to charge the president.

513
00:29:23,520 --> 00:29:26,440
Speaker 1: But they but they easily could have said that here's

514
00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:29,800
Speaker 1: a clear cut case of obstruction if they had found

515
00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:32,680
Speaker 1: that ten instances. But they not that there was a

516
00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:36,400
Speaker 1: clear cut case. Otherwise he would have said, let me

517
00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:40,480
Speaker 1: jump in here. Jason Miller. He's the former communications director

518
00:29:40,520 --> 00:29:43,040
Speaker 1: to the Trump campaign as well as a communication director

519
00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:47,800
Speaker 1: to the Trump transition form. From your perspective, though, should

520
00:29:48,560 --> 00:29:51,920
Speaker 1: should the impeachment chatter? Does that help or hinder the

521
00:29:51,960 --> 00:29:54,920
Speaker 1: president's re election efforts in these key battleground states if

522
00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:57,880
Speaker 1: Democrats keep keep talking about this. From your perspective, yes,

523
00:29:57,960 --> 00:30:00,560
Speaker 1: so it helps the president in the campaign context, but

524
00:30:00,560 --> 00:30:03,400
Speaker 1: I think it's terrible for the country. Um. I spoke

525
00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:06,240
Speaker 1: earlier about the all the opportunities that have been lost

526
00:30:06,280 --> 00:30:08,400
Speaker 1: over the past two years and how the public policy

527
00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:11,440
Speaker 1: debate has suffered. And I think there's also been a

528
00:30:11,480 --> 00:30:15,080
Speaker 1: destruction of the the institution of the president presidency by

529
00:30:15,120 --> 00:30:18,640
Speaker 1: these constant attacks. And I think also in the media,

530
00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:22,120
Speaker 1: the amount of time has been dedicated to this issue

531
00:30:22,520 --> 00:30:26,200
Speaker 1: in neglecting ignoring some of the other important issues that

532
00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:29,040
Speaker 1: are out there. I think this is bad for the country,

533
00:30:29,080 --> 00:30:31,840
Speaker 1: but for the election context, it's going to get President

534
00:30:31,840 --> 00:30:35,400
Speaker 1: Trump reelected. Look, the American people elected Democrats to the

535
00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:39,040
Speaker 1: House in part on an oversight agenda. You look at

536
00:30:39,040 --> 00:30:41,480
Speaker 1: the Global Strategy Group, the survey they conducted in February

537
00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:43,800
Speaker 1: of this year, overwhelming support not just from Democrats but

538
00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:47,560
Speaker 1: also from Republicans in terms of conducting robust oversight. Why

539
00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:50,800
Speaker 1: because they believe that this president, like every other president

540
00:30:50,840 --> 00:30:52,720
Speaker 1: in the past, should be held to a rule of

541
00:30:52,760 --> 00:30:55,600
Speaker 1: law standard and they think that checks and balances matter.

542
00:30:55,680 --> 00:30:58,000
Speaker 1: And so I don't think Jason, I don't think it's

543
00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:00,520
Speaker 1: bad for the country. For Congress and do its job,

544
00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:03,120
Speaker 1: exercise its constitutional responsibility. And I want to jump in here.

545
00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:05,719
Speaker 1: I don't know there was for me the part that

546
00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:09,440
Speaker 1: jumped out, I mean, truthfully, was this one part where

547
00:31:09,480 --> 00:31:11,920
Speaker 1: you actually got to go behind the scenes and into

548
00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:15,400
Speaker 1: the president's uh thinking is when he dropped the F bomb.

549
00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:17,240
Speaker 1: And I'm not going to say it on air, but

550
00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:21,040
Speaker 1: if you literally read this report, he curses in the

551
00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:24,680
Speaker 1: report when he finds out that his then Attorney general

552
00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:28,600
Speaker 1: Jeff's sessions, remember him, Jeff's sessions. Uh. He goes, what

553
00:31:28,640 --> 00:31:30,320
Speaker 1: do you mean they have a special counselor and I'm

554
00:31:30,320 --> 00:31:32,280
Speaker 1: paraphrasing here, and then he goes, this is the end

555
00:31:32,280 --> 00:31:36,360
Speaker 1: of my presidency direct quote end of my presidency. Because

556
00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:41,760
Speaker 1: he had heard that an investigation of this sword would really,

557
00:31:42,040 --> 00:31:45,320
Speaker 1: you know, cloud over the presidency. I thought that was

558
00:31:45,360 --> 00:31:49,120
Speaker 1: such a fascinating glimpse into the president. You never know

559
00:31:49,160 --> 00:31:50,880
Speaker 1: how long these things are going to run. And so,

560
00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:52,840
Speaker 1: I mean, fortunately it was only two years, I mean

561
00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:55,520
Speaker 1: two years of absolute brain damage. But this is something

562
00:31:55,560 --> 00:31:58,960
Speaker 1: that could have been in place for all six remaining years.

563
00:31:58,960 --> 00:32:01,920
Speaker 1: Can you can you imagine a scenario where Doug McGann

564
00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:06,480
Speaker 1: and incorpying everyone else who who refused to carry out

565
00:32:06,520 --> 00:32:09,320
Speaker 1: the directives from the president. They saved him. They saved

566
00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:12,000
Speaker 1: him from the very clear cut obstruction case because they

567
00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:14,560
Speaker 1: wouldn't fire Mueller when he directed them to. They wouldn't

568
00:32:14,560 --> 00:32:16,600
Speaker 1: interview which have sessions when the President directed them to.

569
00:32:16,800 --> 00:32:20,200
Speaker 1: Thank goodness, his staff just disregards every order he gives.

570
00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:23,520
Speaker 1: I mean, my goodness, well, I think the President was

571
00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:26,280
Speaker 1: perfectly in the right place to be frustrated and upset

572
00:32:26,360 --> 00:32:28,640
Speaker 1: that this investigation went on as long as it did.

573
00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:31,160
Speaker 1: And again because there was no collusion, like, not one

574
00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:34,200
Speaker 1: single American or anyone cut into it. And so look,

575
00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:36,040
Speaker 1: if you're the president, you're under this cloud and you're

576
00:32:36,080 --> 00:32:37,720
Speaker 1: being attacked, of course you're gonna be all right. Bob

577
00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:40,360
Speaker 1: Muller is likely going to testify before Congress. Yes or no,

578
00:32:40,440 --> 00:32:43,120
Speaker 1: we have less than a minute. Jason Miller, impatient proceedings.

579
00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:47,800
Speaker 1: Yes or no. Of course they're gonna try. All right,

580
00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:50,680
Speaker 1: We're gonna leave it there, Jason Miller, former senior communications

581
00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:54,400
Speaker 1: advice for the Trump campaign. Dave Brown, Democratic strategist. That's

582
00:32:54,440 --> 00:32:58,120
Speaker 1: it for me. Download the sound on podcast on Apple iTunes,

583
00:32:58,160 --> 00:33:00,600
Speaker 1: at Bloomberg dot com, the Bloomberg Business Sath. You can

584
00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:03,200
Speaker 1: also check us out on radio dot com, I Heart

585
00:33:03,560 --> 00:33:07,040
Speaker 1: and Spotify. I'm Kevin Cirilli. You're listening to sound on

586
00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:13,480
Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg. Yeah,