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Speaker 1: I'm Stacy Marie Ishmael, Managing editor of Crypto for Bloomberg News,

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Speaker 1: And this is Bloomberg Crypto at Daily Bloomberg I Heart Podcast.

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Speaker 1: It's Thursday, July seven. So Rare is one of several

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Speaker 1: companies attempting to take the idea of collectibles like baseball

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Speaker 1: cards and bring them into a more digital context. In

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Speaker 1: me so Rare announced a partnership with Major League Baseball

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Speaker 1: here in the US, and they announced that Serena Williams

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Speaker 1: would be a member of their advisory board. Why are

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Speaker 1: they betting so big on sports? Do collectibles even need

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Speaker 1: to be on a ball chain? Will baseball players benefit

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Speaker 1: from that Major League deal? On this episode, we'll talk

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Speaker 1: to Bloomberg Report, to Hannah Miller, and to so Rare

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Speaker 1: ceo Nicola Julia about why n f T S and

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Speaker 1: sports play well here during Schomberg on Oh my God,

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Speaker 1: kind of always a pleasure to have you on the pod.

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Speaker 1: Thank you so much for having me today. We're going

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Speaker 1: to talk about baseball, which I don't know very much about,

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Speaker 1: and collectibles which I know some more about, an n

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Speaker 1: f T S, which I think you know. We're in

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Speaker 1: good shape as it relates to non fungible tokens. But

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Speaker 1: for the benefit of our audiences, tell us a little

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Speaker 1: bit about your reporting on this company. So and what

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Speaker 1: they're doing with digital collectibles. Yeah, they're an interesting company

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Speaker 1: to watch. Yes, So they've really taken um the n

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Speaker 1: f T world by storm. When it comes to soccer

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Speaker 1: n f P s uh, they're super popular in Europe

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Speaker 1: their French startup, and what they do is is they

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Speaker 1: combine fantasy gaming with n f T s, so real

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Speaker 1: life soccer players are represented by these n f T s.

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Speaker 1: People can build a soccer team with them and then

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Speaker 1: compete with other people based on the real life performance

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Speaker 1: of these players. So now they're taking this to the

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Speaker 1: US with baseball and have teamed up with MLB to

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Speaker 1: Major League Yes, to create a Baseball n f T

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Speaker 1: fantasy game. That's a lot of things, So I want

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Speaker 1: to I want to break this down slightly. In theory,

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Speaker 1: I could buy an n f T of Christiano Ronaldo

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Speaker 1: or Messy or you know, sort of someone else, add

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Speaker 1: them to my fantasy football league, my fantasy soccer league,

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Speaker 1: and then compete against other people. So it's like kind

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Speaker 1: of like Pokemon or Magic. The gathering where the better

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Speaker 1: cards and players I have, you know, the more likely

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Speaker 1: it is I'm gonna win. Yeah, that's exactly it. And

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Speaker 1: you know we've seen this edition of fantasy gaming and

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Speaker 1: sports before, like I mean, fantasy baseball is a big

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Speaker 1: thing in the US. But the whole mission here is

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Speaker 1: to create these n f t s that people can

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Speaker 1: feel like they actually own, you know, this digital asset.

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Speaker 1: They can win money playing this game. Um. There's also

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Speaker 1: free to play version um, and they can collect their

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Speaker 1: favorite players actually you know, make a profit off of it. Yes, so,

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Speaker 1: which which is always what it comes back to. But

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Speaker 1: if it sounds like these things exist outside of a

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Speaker 1: blockchain concept, like why then do these needs to be

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Speaker 1: n f t s, Like what is sovs? Value proposition here? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's a really good question. I think we're still asking

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Speaker 1: that question about n f t s in general. The

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Speaker 1: n f t s here with the with these fantasy

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Speaker 1: gaming the game wants to give the people who play

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Speaker 1: it the idea that they own these digital assets. They're

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Speaker 1: on the blockchain, they won't be able to you know,

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Speaker 1: get it taken away from them. They can actually sell

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Speaker 1: them on other marketplaces and really just you know, interact

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Speaker 1: with them in interesting ways. But I think that's a

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Speaker 1: that's a good question, is like why do we need

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Speaker 1: boxing here? What's the appeal of using n f T

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Speaker 1: s as digital collectibles? And I think a lot of

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Speaker 1: n f T companies, especially during this bear market, are

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Speaker 1: going to have to contend with that even more. What

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Speaker 1: I'm trying to get a better sense of is the economics.

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Speaker 1: Do these cards benefit players in any way? Do they

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Speaker 1: benefit the league's you know, how does the licensing of

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Speaker 1: a Christiano Ronaldo work? Yeah, it's pretty interesting. So they

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Speaker 1: do work with specific soccer leagues to you know, get

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Speaker 1: licensing deals, get them on board. I know some players

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Speaker 1: have like teamed up to do you know, fan tokens

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Speaker 1: and things like that with other platforms to get a

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Speaker 1: cut the new MLB offering. I asked about that, and

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Speaker 1: I think there's still sort of figuring out the role

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Speaker 1: that players are gonna play in this. I know that

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Speaker 1: they're going to use baseball players to promote the n

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Speaker 1: f T s. You know, different franchises will have different

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Speaker 1: marketing strategies for promoting the games. And they actually worked

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Speaker 1: very closely with the players union within Major League Baseball

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Speaker 1: to get them on board and figure those things out.

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Speaker 1: So hopefully more details will come out about that soon. Now.

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Speaker 1: In your story, you mentioned that the MLB Major League

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Speaker 1: Baseball as an institution, was initially kind of skeptical of

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Speaker 1: all things crypto. What made them change their minds? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so I did ask about that, and actually the chief

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Speaker 1: revenue officer who I spoke to, he has had been

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Speaker 1: interested in crypto for a long time. He had had

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Speaker 1: bought and sold n f T s, had lost a

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Speaker 1: lot of money on n f T s, you know,

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Speaker 1: so he had his own personal tragedies and triumphs with it,

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Speaker 1: and I think he was really a driving force and

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Speaker 1: building this partnership. But yeah, I mean they made he

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Speaker 1: made clear that there was skeptic is m. You know,

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Speaker 1: there is still this association with scams and you know,

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Speaker 1: people losing fortunes and you know, just sort of bad press.

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Speaker 1: He said, though, that really just the broadening interest in

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Speaker 1: sports n f T S. I mean, we've seen huge

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Speaker 1: success with Dapper Labs and and being cop shot that,

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Speaker 1: you know, and just the growing popularity of crypto and

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Speaker 1: n FPS at that time. We're really sort of what

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Speaker 1: spurred MLB to to jump on board with us. You

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Speaker 1: mentioned NBA Top Shots, you know, kind of one of

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Speaker 1: the original exemplars of bringing collectibles and fandoms to the blockchain.

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Speaker 1: They have really struggled in two Like you know, sales

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Speaker 1: of their digital collectibles is significantly down relative to the

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Speaker 1: same period a year ago. Yeah, and I definitely talked

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Speaker 1: about that UM with a lot of people in the

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Speaker 1: NFP industry because really they were there were such a

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Speaker 1: leader UM when they first came out. But I think,

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Speaker 1: what so so, where is trying to do differently here

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Speaker 1: is add a gaming element to it. So NBA Top

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Speaker 1: Shot doesn't have that. It's you know, it's a lot

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Speaker 1: of like clips, you know, it's more about it. It's

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Speaker 1: I think a little bit more similar to just regular

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Speaker 1: trading cards, whereas so Rare has this gamified aspect to UM.

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Speaker 1: And I think that's what they think set so Rare

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Speaker 1: apart from NBA Top Shot is that this is a

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Speaker 1: different kind of thing. It is a true game, it's

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Speaker 1: in the spirit of sports. It does connect to fantasy baseball.

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Speaker 1: So I think that's why they're hoping that they're going

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Speaker 1: to have a better fortune than and be a top Shot.

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Speaker 1: Here's the fun part about for to play games though,

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Speaker 1: if you if you play video games to those like

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Speaker 1: they're free to play until they get really annoying because

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Speaker 1: you can't win because everybody who is paying for stuff

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Speaker 1: is better than you. And it does sound like there's

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Speaker 1: an element of that with this, where if you don't

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Speaker 1: have good cards, or you're sort of not upgrading your

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Speaker 1: play or is, you're going to be at a disadvantage. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I know, and I think that's already something that sort

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Speaker 1: of happens with the the soccer version of this, So

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Speaker 1: it'll be interesting to see if that's sort of the

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Speaker 1: case of the MLB game, which is coming out after

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Speaker 1: the All Star Game this summer. In terms of the

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Speaker 1: overall appetite among consumers for collectibles, I mean fandoms collecting

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Speaker 1: trading cards of every stripe. These have held up and

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Speaker 1: they remember there were certain points at sort of the

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Speaker 1: beginning in the middle of the pandemic when targets and

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Speaker 1: other retailers were putting limits on the number of cards

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Speaker 1: you could buy because there was such a rush to

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Speaker 1: sort of get back into this particular form of escapism. Frankly,

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Speaker 1: do you think that the digital versions of these activities

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Speaker 1: will have similar longevity? Yeah? No, I I think that

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Speaker 1: remains to be seen. I mean, n f T cells

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Speaker 1: are down overall, they're getting hit during this crypto winter

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Speaker 1: as well. I think there's always going to be that

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Speaker 1: technology barrier that people aren't gonna wanna cross over, and

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Speaker 1: that barrier is especially high in crypto in n f

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Speaker 1: T s, I think. So we're just trying to make this,

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Speaker 1: you know, an easier user experience, but I think it's

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Speaker 1: going to be hard to overcome just skepticism in general

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Speaker 1: about crypto UM. And you know, they're launching at a

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Speaker 1: tough time too, because this winter is expected to last

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Speaker 1: UM for for a bit. So it's going to be

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Speaker 1: interesting to see if, you know, they make any changes

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Speaker 1: to their strategy or you know, or just how they're

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Speaker 1: going to promote this in general, while there is so

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Speaker 1: much anxiety and fear within the industry currently, Yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: looking like a deep chill for sure. How to thank

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Speaker 1: you so much. I still don't understand a ton about baseball,

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Speaker 1: but I do understand more about these n f T s.

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Speaker 1: So thank you for very much for joining us, Thank

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Speaker 1: you for having me. Thank you Hannah. You can find

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Speaker 1: more of Hannah's reporting on the Bloomberg Terminal on Bloomberg

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Speaker 1: dot com and follow her on Twitter at h G. Millaine.

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Speaker 1: We'll be right back with the CEO at so Rare,

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Speaker 1: Nicola Julia, to dive deeper into crypto fantasy sports and

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Speaker 1: their partnership with Major League Baseball. Earlier this year, Major

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Speaker 1: League Baseball partnered with so Rare to launch an n

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Speaker 1: f T game. We're joined now by so Rare CEO

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Speaker 1: and co founder Nicola Julia, who's going to talk a

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Speaker 1: little bit more about what this means for fans of

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Speaker 1: the sport. Nicola, thank you so much for joining us today.

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Speaker 1: Thank you so much for having me so tell me

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Speaker 1: more about this idea of bringing collectibles, sport words, and

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Speaker 1: fantasy sports in particular into the world of crypto on

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Speaker 1: the blockchain. So I've been a massive spons fan, you know,

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Speaker 1: like for as long as I can remember, and I

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Speaker 1: have sponse because they can unite people, they create hope,

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Speaker 1: they inspire people, they bring people together, and they do this.

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Speaker 1: They do this across the globe, and so I think

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Speaker 1: that's our mission, like United sponsor fans across the club,

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Speaker 1: but we all do it. We are doing it in

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Speaker 1: a way that is different from what the sponsor and

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Speaker 1: Tottenment company have been doing in the past, where they

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Speaker 1: were trying to you know, like grab your attention to

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Speaker 1: get you locked in a cross the equest system and

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Speaker 1: well when you are you are like doing their items

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Speaker 1: like you are not really owning them. You could not

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Speaker 1: like we sell them, move them and so on. So

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Speaker 1: we are doing it in a way that is different.

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Speaker 1: So we have this fantasy game where you can play

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Speaker 1: with officially lessens and f t s uh. And that's

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Speaker 1: that's bringing like a totally different dynamic and connection between

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Speaker 1: the company, the finds, the leagues and the kids. Why baseball,

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Speaker 1: Why this league? And are there any elements of this

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Speaker 1: deal that are different from what you were doing previously

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Speaker 1: in your work in football or soccer. Yeah. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: we started, we've so gone, which is uh. Yeah, the

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Speaker 1: biggest parts in the world in terms of for audience,

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Speaker 1: and we have no like you know, like to two

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Speaker 1: hundred and seventy clubs that were annuing with and we

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Speaker 1: have two million news ons with the sport and uh,

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Speaker 1: and then we were thinking about the next port and

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Speaker 1: baseball was making a lot of sense for many reasons.

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Speaker 1: I think the fans. One is like that's that's why

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Speaker 1: collectibles came from a culical collectibles, which is a big

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Speaker 1: pillan for what products. The idea of of a baseball

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Speaker 1: card and collecting a baseball card is the original exactly,

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Speaker 1: exactly exactly, and same for fantasy sports, like our two

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Speaker 1: parents collecting and playing fantasist ports were born with the sports.

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Speaker 1: So it was making a lot of sends for us

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Speaker 1: to start here in terms of fewer sports. We obviously

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Speaker 1: wanted to grow audience in the US, and the MLB

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Speaker 1: and MLBB were very excited about growing intelligence in Europe,

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Speaker 1: so it was a perfect fit. Do you have you

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Speaker 1: know when you talk about growing your audience in the US,

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Speaker 1: but certainly in other places, do you have any other

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Speaker 1: leagues that you're hoping to work with, you know, the

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Speaker 1: w n B, a NHL, Yeah, definitely, So jury speaking,

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Speaker 1: we want to partner with all the best leagues and

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Speaker 1: toup leaks in the world perform and sports and women sports.

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Speaker 1: Regarding men sports, we announced like that we're gonna launch

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Speaker 1: two of the freemagents U S leagues disitions, so MLB

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Speaker 1: is fast and then we're gonna we're gonna have a

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Speaker 1: second one that is and that is comming this young

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Speaker 1: and we're also going to launch women's sports in the

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Speaker 1: this is something that we're already working on internally to

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Speaker 1: make sure that we can you know, who know the

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Speaker 1: sports and you know, making it prominent in the products

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Speaker 1: and a far like a truly world class experience for

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Speaker 1: funs that were to engage you know, women's sports on

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Speaker 1: that when you announced earlier this year that Serena Williams

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Speaker 1: perhaps the best tennis player of all time, then man

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Speaker 1: or woman was joining as an advisor to your board.

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Speaker 1: In that statement, you know, it talks a lot about

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Speaker 1: how women's sports is an area of interest and priority

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Speaker 1: both for Serena Williams but also for the company. Why

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Speaker 1: do you see this as a as an area to

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Speaker 1: kind of play in as it relates to you know,

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Speaker 1: the goals that you have for the organization. We just

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Speaker 1: need to hunt on half of the world. So it's

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Speaker 1: it's good to have you know, men's sports, but that

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Speaker 1: we need we need to do more than this, uh,

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Speaker 1: and so we we are committed to do this and

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Speaker 1: are committed to growdest point. I think that's not having

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Speaker 1: again like a workless entertlement experience where funs can engage

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Speaker 1: through the sports, gonna have growdest ports. We don't think

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Speaker 1: you know, company like a Tattenment. Companies have done enough

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Speaker 1: for this. So we we are committed to to do

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Speaker 1: this and obviously in the the business will believe as

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Speaker 1: a huge opportunity as well. Uh and so and so yeah,

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Speaker 1: we're very very excited to do this. And Serena is

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Speaker 1: just a perfect fit to help us develop this, and

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Speaker 1: not not only because she knows this one, but also

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Speaker 1: because she you know, she knows technology and she has

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Speaker 1: been involved in a lot of you know, fat growing startups,

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Speaker 1: as a couple of films. So um so so yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's it's an amazing partnership and she's she's helping helping

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Speaker 1: us in many many fronts. Have you played tennis with

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Speaker 1: Serena Williams. I would love to not yet she you know,

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Speaker 1: yesterday like she she was back on the court, which

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Speaker 1: I'm very very happy at Wimbledon. Uh and and uh

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Speaker 1: and and and I mean she's remarkable and like to

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Speaker 1: do not have a curage to go back again. We

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Speaker 1: we love this and we love this courage, well, we

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Speaker 1: love this energy, this this dedication and the tennis play

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Speaker 1: on and and so I would love to do this

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Speaker 1: at some point. Speaking of players, you know, at the

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Speaker 1: end of June you announced that Kilean and Bopy is

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Speaker 1: going to be joining or at least investing in in

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Speaker 1: so are as as a as a partner, as an ambassador.

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Speaker 1: What were those conversations like. And as you see more

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Speaker 1: and more of these kinds of athletes engaging, as you say,

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Speaker 1: not just in things about revenue, but in things in

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Speaker 1: crypto specifically, Yeah, I mean for for for children in particular,

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Speaker 1: it was it was for us an amazing fit because

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Speaker 1: he's a global icon. Uh, he's a global brand and

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Speaker 1: we want and we are building a global product, like

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Speaker 1: we are selling one hundred and eighty four countries right now.

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Speaker 1: Um and uh. And so he wants to also to

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Speaker 1: show that, you know, the best of the best and

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Speaker 1: be built out of France, which is something that we

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Speaker 1: are committing to do and to show so uh and

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Speaker 1: and on top of being amazing on the beach, like

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Speaker 1: he's got amazing values and commitments of the outside of

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Speaker 1: the beach. Uh. And so you know, for us, it's

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Speaker 1: it's it's way more than than crypto or energies. It's

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Speaker 1: what we can what can we do to give back

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Speaker 1: with him? So we we have like a world UH

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Speaker 1: commitment and most him around this. What can we do

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Speaker 1: obviously to grow the audience of our products with him

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Speaker 1: as an ambassador, and what can we do to get

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Speaker 1: his feedback and his help to improve our product? So

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Speaker 1: it's it's it's big. He's becoming an important investor in

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Speaker 1: the company, associal impact. Our team play on with us

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Speaker 1: UH and obviously like our exclusive investor, Nicola, thank you

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Speaker 1: so much for joining us today. Thank you so much,

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Speaker 1: Thanks so much for having me. Thank you, Nicola. You

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Speaker 1: can find so are on Twitter at so Rare that

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Speaker 1: s O R A R. On the next episode of

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Crypto. It feels like every country in the world

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Speaker 1: is figuring out how they want to regulate crypto or

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Speaker 1: if they'll even allow it to exist at all. India

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Speaker 1: is one of the fastest growing markets for crypto trading,

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Speaker 1: something which it's government isn't too keen. On Bloomberg Reporters,

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Speaker 1: that authors club will join me to discuss India's complicated

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Speaker 1: history of crypto regulation. Why they're turning to taxes to

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Speaker 1: curb speculation on the asset class and the potential lessons

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Speaker 1: for other countries from the India experience. I'm Stacy Marie

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Speaker 1: Ishmael and this is Bloomberg Crypto, a daily podcast from

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg and I Heart Radio. For more shows from I

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Speaker 1: Heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

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Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts. Email your questions, comments

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Speaker 1: or suggestions for the show to Crypto at Bloomberg dot

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Speaker 1: net and you'll find us on Twitter at Crypto. The

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Speaker 1: supervising producer of this episode is Vicky very Galina. Associate

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Speaker 1: producer is thy Butler. Des to wonder At is our engineer.

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Speaker 1: Original music by Leo Sidron Take Me Out to the

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Speaker 1: Ballgame is courtesy of Ethan Eu Banks No