1 00:00:03,480 --> 00:00:08,000 Speaker 1: Being incarcerated. That's where I found my purpose. So I 2 00:00:08,039 --> 00:00:12,600 Speaker 1: was involved in an accident and I struck command that 3 00:00:12,720 --> 00:00:13,800 Speaker 1: was standing on the side. 4 00:00:13,600 --> 00:00:14,080 Speaker 2: Of the road. 5 00:00:14,440 --> 00:00:19,160 Speaker 1: I didn't see him there, and I. 6 00:00:18,079 --> 00:00:18,920 Speaker 2: Was leaving a funeral. 7 00:00:19,000 --> 00:00:22,360 Speaker 1: I was at a friend of mine's mom's funeral. So 8 00:00:22,440 --> 00:00:25,640 Speaker 1: you leave a funeral and you create one. I mean, 9 00:00:25,680 --> 00:00:27,520 Speaker 1: that's devastating. 10 00:00:31,680 --> 00:00:34,720 Speaker 3: Welcome to an army of normal folks. I'm Bill Courtney. 11 00:00:34,960 --> 00:00:37,600 Speaker 3: I'm a normal guy. I'm a husband, I'm a father, 12 00:00:37,800 --> 00:00:41,160 Speaker 3: I'm an entrepreneur, and I'm a football coach in inner 13 00:00:41,159 --> 00:00:44,560 Speaker 3: City Memphis. And the last part somehow led to an 14 00:00:44,600 --> 00:00:47,479 Speaker 3: oscar for the film about one of my teams. 15 00:00:47,560 --> 00:00:49,080 Speaker 4: It's called Undefeated. 16 00:00:49,840 --> 00:00:52,960 Speaker 3: Guys, I believe our country's problems are never going to 17 00:00:53,040 --> 00:00:56,760 Speaker 3: be solved by a bunch of fancy people wearing nice suits, 18 00:00:57,000 --> 00:01:00,640 Speaker 3: using big words that nobody ever uses on CNN than Fox, 19 00:01:00,720 --> 00:01:05,800 Speaker 3: but rather by an army of normal folks. That's us, 20 00:01:05,880 --> 00:01:08,160 Speaker 3: just you and me deciding, Hey, you know what, maybe 21 00:01:08,280 --> 00:01:11,840 Speaker 3: I can help. That's what Christi Luther, the voice you 22 00:01:11,959 --> 00:01:14,759 Speaker 3: just heard, has done. She took one of the greatest 23 00:01:14,800 --> 00:01:17,960 Speaker 3: pains a human being could ever have and transformed it 24 00:01:18,600 --> 00:01:19,559 Speaker 3: to make it count. 25 00:01:19,640 --> 00:01:20,240 Speaker 4: For something. 26 00:01:20,840 --> 00:01:23,600 Speaker 3: While in prison, she came up with the idea to 27 00:01:23,680 --> 00:01:29,680 Speaker 3: create Oklahoma's first cosmetology and barbering school within a women's 28 00:01:29,720 --> 00:01:33,000 Speaker 3: correctional facility, and when she got out, she felt like 29 00:01:33,160 --> 00:01:38,720 Speaker 3: crazy to make the RISE program a reality. Nine years later, 30 00:01:39,080 --> 00:01:42,520 Speaker 3: they've had two hundred and eighty six graduates and students, 31 00:01:43,040 --> 00:01:46,880 Speaker 3: eighty percent of them are employed in the industry post release, 32 00:01:46,959 --> 00:01:50,200 Speaker 3: and only one person one. 33 00:01:49,680 --> 00:01:50,920 Speaker 4: Has gone back to prison. 34 00:01:51,600 --> 00:01:54,840 Speaker 3: Christy will teach you about transforming your pain into purpose, 35 00:01:55,040 --> 00:01:58,080 Speaker 3: following the callings on your heart instead of ignoring them, 36 00:01:58,120 --> 00:02:02,200 Speaker 3: and so much more. Right after these brief messages from 37 00:02:02,400 --> 00:02:15,560 Speaker 3: our general sponsors, all right, obviously you're going to hear 38 00:02:17,160 --> 00:02:21,799 Speaker 3: a different interviews voice. It's producer Alex and you may 39 00:02:21,840 --> 00:02:27,200 Speaker 3: be asking why. Well, I've had season tickets to ole 40 00:02:27,240 --> 00:02:34,320 Speaker 3: Miss football games since nineteen ninety one. Every year i've donated, 41 00:02:34,360 --> 00:02:37,480 Speaker 3: I've given, I've graduated there, kids of mine have gone there. 42 00:02:37,600 --> 00:02:42,440 Speaker 3: It's just been something we've always done lifelong fans. I've 43 00:02:42,480 --> 00:02:47,600 Speaker 3: been through the Tommy Tuberville days, the Hugh Freeze days, 44 00:02:47,760 --> 00:02:51,760 Speaker 3: the Billie Brewer days, and every year I think this 45 00:02:51,880 --> 00:02:56,640 Speaker 3: may be the year, well, this may really be the year, 46 00:02:57,680 --> 00:03:02,840 Speaker 3: and Unfortunately, we we schedule guests months in advance to 47 00:03:02,880 --> 00:03:06,280 Speaker 3: travel to Memphis to do our interviews, and the fest 48 00:03:06,280 --> 00:03:10,560 Speaker 3: of all happened to be the same time that Christy 49 00:03:10,720 --> 00:03:14,840 Speaker 3: was in town, and unfortunately I had to roll out 50 00:03:15,360 --> 00:03:18,720 Speaker 3: on a previous scheduled interview to go to Arizona to 51 00:03:18,760 --> 00:03:24,360 Speaker 3: watch my old miss team play Miami. So because of 52 00:03:24,400 --> 00:03:31,200 Speaker 3: that unfortunate scheduling debacle and my unwillingness to miss that, 53 00:03:31,280 --> 00:03:36,440 Speaker 3: this may actually be the year Alex will be interviewing 54 00:03:36,560 --> 00:03:39,320 Speaker 3: Christy and I will be listening to the interview and 55 00:03:39,880 --> 00:03:43,640 Speaker 3: adding in my two cents. So that's why Alex is 56 00:03:43,680 --> 00:03:44,640 Speaker 3: an interviewer today. 57 00:03:49,000 --> 00:03:50,840 Speaker 5: Christy Luther, it's great to be with you. 58 00:03:50,960 --> 00:03:53,000 Speaker 2: It's great to be here. Thank you for the opportunity. 59 00:03:53,080 --> 00:03:55,840 Speaker 6: Sorry that I'm summing in for Bill Courtney. Our host 60 00:03:55,840 --> 00:03:59,240 Speaker 6: has derelicted as duties again, Cassius. He went to see 61 00:03:59,240 --> 00:04:02,800 Speaker 6: his old misplay in the Fiesta Bowl, and so everybody's 62 00:04:02,840 --> 00:04:04,320 Speaker 6: got a substitute host today. 63 00:04:04,440 --> 00:04:04,920 Speaker 2: That's great. 64 00:04:05,000 --> 00:04:06,240 Speaker 5: Hopefully we don't screw this up. 65 00:04:06,640 --> 00:04:07,400 Speaker 2: I'm in good hands. 66 00:04:07,640 --> 00:04:11,560 Speaker 6: So Christy is the founder of an amazing program called Rise, 67 00:04:11,600 --> 00:04:13,880 Speaker 6: which we're going to get into a lot. But I 68 00:04:13,920 --> 00:04:15,880 Speaker 6: want to first start off with a question that gets 69 00:04:15,880 --> 00:04:18,480 Speaker 6: to the heart of the matter. Okay, Christy, why would 70 00:04:18,480 --> 00:04:19,520 Speaker 6: you educate a murderer? 71 00:04:20,640 --> 00:04:23,520 Speaker 1: Because I think everyone's life is valuable. I think God 72 00:04:23,560 --> 00:04:26,680 Speaker 1: can redeem a life, he can redeem brokenness, and he 73 00:04:26,760 --> 00:04:28,080 Speaker 1: can redeem our mistakes. 74 00:04:28,920 --> 00:04:30,320 Speaker 5: And you know a little something about that. 75 00:04:30,320 --> 00:04:32,080 Speaker 2: Too, yes, personally. 76 00:04:33,279 --> 00:04:35,479 Speaker 6: Well, maybe we'll get to that in a minute. You're 77 00:04:35,520 --> 00:04:39,839 Speaker 6: actually a Memphis girl, so you you were sharing that 78 00:04:39,880 --> 00:04:42,719 Speaker 6: it's been quite a reflective time being back here for 79 00:04:42,800 --> 00:04:44,800 Speaker 6: a day, and feel free to share anything about that. 80 00:04:44,960 --> 00:04:48,440 Speaker 6: But what was your child like here at Memphis? How 81 00:04:48,440 --> 00:04:49,559 Speaker 6: has that impact of your life? 82 00:04:49,760 --> 00:04:53,159 Speaker 1: Yeah? So being from Memphis, I just I feel rooted, 83 00:04:53,200 --> 00:04:57,040 Speaker 1: I feel connected here. It goes deep and I just 84 00:04:57,080 --> 00:04:57,440 Speaker 1: love it. 85 00:04:57,480 --> 00:04:57,680 Speaker 2: You know. 86 00:04:57,760 --> 00:05:00,520 Speaker 1: I always say, you know, Memphis the home of rock 87 00:05:00,560 --> 00:05:01,880 Speaker 1: and roll, blues and barbecue. 88 00:05:01,920 --> 00:05:02,920 Speaker 2: I mean, what else do you need? 89 00:05:03,040 --> 00:05:07,560 Speaker 1: Right? And so my childhood here, I mean there was 90 00:05:07,600 --> 00:05:12,360 Speaker 1: some verbal abuse and some physical abuse growing up and 91 00:05:13,440 --> 00:05:15,840 Speaker 1: it impacted me in a way that caused some father 92 00:05:15,920 --> 00:05:19,160 Speaker 1: wounds for me. And then especially when I was in 93 00:05:19,240 --> 00:05:21,400 Speaker 1: high school and we moved from Memphis and had to 94 00:05:21,440 --> 00:05:24,480 Speaker 1: move to Oklahoma City, that really impacted me because I 95 00:05:24,520 --> 00:05:27,640 Speaker 1: felt safe secure and at home here in Memphis. 96 00:05:28,200 --> 00:05:30,320 Speaker 6: Yeah, we were talking on the car and the way 97 00:05:30,320 --> 00:05:32,600 Speaker 6: over that. You know, if you've gone through some kind 98 00:05:32,600 --> 00:05:36,120 Speaker 6: of trauma like that of abuse, and at least I 99 00:05:36,120 --> 00:05:38,400 Speaker 6: think you had, you have the stabilization of your grandparents 100 00:05:38,400 --> 00:05:41,200 Speaker 6: and some of those relationships and a stable environment that 101 00:05:41,240 --> 00:05:43,840 Speaker 6: you knew. But after going through trauma like that and 102 00:05:43,839 --> 00:05:46,239 Speaker 6: then having the quarter ripped out and going to another 103 00:05:46,360 --> 00:05:48,799 Speaker 6: environment just must make it a lot worse. 104 00:05:48,960 --> 00:05:50,760 Speaker 2: Yes, it was. I mean it was hard. 105 00:05:50,920 --> 00:05:53,200 Speaker 1: You know. I was about to graduate with everyone i'd 106 00:05:53,200 --> 00:05:56,880 Speaker 1: gone to elementary school with, and you know, that was 107 00:05:57,200 --> 00:06:00,280 Speaker 1: that was my stability. And so to move, you know, 108 00:06:00,360 --> 00:06:04,479 Speaker 1: eight hours away to unknown land, you know, and just 109 00:06:04,520 --> 00:06:07,760 Speaker 1: a different culture altogether, that was really hard. And so 110 00:06:08,040 --> 00:06:10,120 Speaker 1: you know, I just didn't want to connect with anyone, 111 00:06:10,240 --> 00:06:13,720 Speaker 1: and and it had some effects even to this day. 112 00:06:13,839 --> 00:06:15,240 Speaker 2: You know, in my adulthood, you. 113 00:06:15,200 --> 00:06:16,960 Speaker 5: Said you became a little bit of a rebel me 114 00:06:17,040 --> 00:06:17,200 Speaker 5: and the. 115 00:06:17,320 --> 00:06:20,880 Speaker 2: Lot of a rebel. Oh my gosh. 116 00:06:21,279 --> 00:06:23,160 Speaker 6: When you died your hair, I assume that's your hair 117 00:06:23,160 --> 00:06:24,200 Speaker 6: has died. That's not natural. 118 00:06:24,320 --> 00:06:26,680 Speaker 2: Oh, I know. I actually am a redhead. 119 00:06:26,960 --> 00:06:30,280 Speaker 1: Both my grandmothers were red haired, and I just I 120 00:06:30,480 --> 00:06:33,599 Speaker 1: was platinum blonde. I was rebellious. You know, I wasn't 121 00:06:33,640 --> 00:06:37,200 Speaker 1: going to eat. I was a fighter. I started smoking 122 00:06:37,279 --> 00:06:40,000 Speaker 1: and drinking and doing lots of stuff that you know 123 00:06:40,200 --> 00:06:42,480 Speaker 1: that people experiment with different things. 124 00:06:42,520 --> 00:06:44,520 Speaker 6: But and yeah, you figured out how to be a 125 00:06:44,560 --> 00:06:47,440 Speaker 6: successful salon owner. It sounded like, I mean, take us 126 00:06:47,440 --> 00:06:50,039 Speaker 6: to what that was like and then this hole in 127 00:06:50,080 --> 00:06:51,880 Speaker 6: your heart that I think you still felt. 128 00:06:52,080 --> 00:06:54,479 Speaker 2: Yeah, so to be a salon owner. 129 00:06:54,560 --> 00:06:56,880 Speaker 1: Well, you know, I finally made it through high school 130 00:06:57,240 --> 00:07:00,000 Speaker 1: and all my rebellion and went to cosmetology. 131 00:07:00,080 --> 00:07:01,840 Speaker 5: You finally, how many years wou'd taken care? 132 00:07:01,920 --> 00:07:02,080 Speaker 2: No? 133 00:07:02,080 --> 00:07:04,920 Speaker 1: No, no, just after we moved to after we moved 134 00:07:04,920 --> 00:07:08,120 Speaker 1: to Oklahoma City, there was just still a longing to, 135 00:07:08,440 --> 00:07:12,080 Speaker 1: you know, want to be accepted or belong and out 136 00:07:12,120 --> 00:07:15,120 Speaker 1: there over there in Oklahoma City. And I just didn't 137 00:07:15,120 --> 00:07:19,000 Speaker 1: feel that way. So thankfully, being the oldest daughter and 138 00:07:19,160 --> 00:07:23,320 Speaker 1: oldest child, I just have an entrepreneurial heart and a 139 00:07:23,440 --> 00:07:26,680 Speaker 1: business mind, and so I just started going to work 140 00:07:26,720 --> 00:07:29,920 Speaker 1: after cosmetology school, owned a salon, and you know, just 141 00:07:29,960 --> 00:07:32,080 Speaker 1: started building my life on what I wanted it to 142 00:07:32,120 --> 00:07:32,520 Speaker 1: look like. 143 00:07:33,280 --> 00:07:35,360 Speaker 6: And if you don't mind talking about, like how many 144 00:07:35,400 --> 00:07:37,200 Speaker 6: other people were working in the salon or how are 145 00:07:37,200 --> 00:07:38,400 Speaker 6: you guys doing revenue? 146 00:07:38,520 --> 00:07:38,960 Speaker 4: Whise? 147 00:07:38,960 --> 00:07:41,760 Speaker 5: Like, what was your life like before it came crashing down? 148 00:07:42,480 --> 00:07:45,080 Speaker 1: Well, I had a salon with fifteen employees in it, 149 00:07:45,120 --> 00:07:47,679 Speaker 1: and really, yeah, and really it was. It was pretty 150 00:07:47,720 --> 00:07:50,120 Speaker 1: easy because we do a booth rent situation where they 151 00:07:50,200 --> 00:07:54,880 Speaker 1: just sublet their space from me, and I was I 152 00:07:54,960 --> 00:07:56,880 Speaker 1: was making quite a bit of money, that's for sure. 153 00:07:57,000 --> 00:07:59,480 Speaker 1: And so you know, just having fifteen people paying rent 154 00:07:59,760 --> 00:08:02,600 Speaker 1: for hundred and fifty dollars a month times fifteen, you 155 00:08:02,600 --> 00:08:03,720 Speaker 1: can do the math on that. 156 00:08:03,800 --> 00:08:05,800 Speaker 2: It was. It was pretty good. And then I, you know, 157 00:08:05,920 --> 00:08:08,560 Speaker 2: got married and then was a mom and. 158 00:08:10,200 --> 00:08:13,480 Speaker 1: I've been in this industry for some decades now, a 159 00:08:13,480 --> 00:08:14,280 Speaker 1: lot of decades. 160 00:08:14,520 --> 00:08:17,480 Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, So what felt off to you in that moment? 161 00:08:17,640 --> 00:08:20,880 Speaker 6: Despite the a common story, despite the financial success, it 162 00:08:20,920 --> 00:08:22,400 Speaker 6: did not solve all the world's problems. 163 00:08:22,480 --> 00:08:25,200 Speaker 1: It did not solve all the problems. You know, when 164 00:08:25,840 --> 00:08:27,400 Speaker 1: I did not grow up in church at all. We 165 00:08:27,440 --> 00:08:29,560 Speaker 1: didn't go to church while we lived here, and then 166 00:08:29,640 --> 00:08:31,760 Speaker 1: when I moved to Oklahoma City, we still didn't go 167 00:08:31,800 --> 00:08:35,920 Speaker 1: to church. And so funny, funny thing, I worked in 168 00:08:35,960 --> 00:08:38,959 Speaker 1: a Christian salon before I owned my own. 169 00:08:38,840 --> 00:08:41,400 Speaker 5: And it was before Christians. 170 00:08:41,840 --> 00:08:43,600 Speaker 2: Well we have Christian schools now. 171 00:08:43,559 --> 00:08:46,520 Speaker 5: So, but it was did they only take Christian customers? 172 00:08:47,160 --> 00:08:50,680 Speaker 1: But they played all Christian music and Bible studies. 173 00:08:51,000 --> 00:08:54,040 Speaker 2: Yes, yes, and I was not. I was not any 174 00:08:54,080 --> 00:08:54,280 Speaker 2: of that. 175 00:08:54,480 --> 00:08:59,760 Speaker 1: And I was, yeah, I'm sure that the Holy Spirit 176 00:08:59,800 --> 00:09:01,720 Speaker 1: said love, We're going to get her. 177 00:09:02,360 --> 00:09:04,680 Speaker 5: They're trying to save you, that's you know. 178 00:09:04,880 --> 00:09:06,360 Speaker 2: No, they were very sweet about it. 179 00:09:06,600 --> 00:09:08,920 Speaker 1: I actually was a party girl, so I would come 180 00:09:08,920 --> 00:09:12,360 Speaker 1: in with the hangover and they were having Bible study 181 00:09:12,400 --> 00:09:15,400 Speaker 1: in the back, and all I wanted was coffee and 182 00:09:15,440 --> 00:09:17,360 Speaker 1: they were like, hey, good morning, can we pray for you? 183 00:09:17,400 --> 00:09:18,880 Speaker 1: I was like, nope, I don't want any of that. 184 00:09:19,440 --> 00:09:21,679 Speaker 1: And I just didn't know, you know, And so they 185 00:09:21,679 --> 00:09:23,760 Speaker 1: were so loving to me. They never said you're going 186 00:09:23,840 --> 00:09:25,680 Speaker 1: to go to Hell on a slipping slide because of 187 00:09:25,760 --> 00:09:28,520 Speaker 1: you know, your behavior. They just loved me, you know, 188 00:09:28,920 --> 00:09:33,320 Speaker 1: and that resonated with me, and it really, I don't know, 189 00:09:33,360 --> 00:09:36,440 Speaker 1: it helped me to begin my relationship with God. And 190 00:09:37,320 --> 00:09:41,360 Speaker 1: it was on August eighteenth. I was at lunch, driving 191 00:09:41,400 --> 00:09:43,520 Speaker 1: around and doing the Foxhole prayer that says, God, if 192 00:09:43,559 --> 00:09:46,680 Speaker 1: you're really real, you know, help me, because I just 193 00:09:46,720 --> 00:09:49,320 Speaker 1: felt so lost I just did not have a connection. 194 00:09:49,880 --> 00:09:52,280 Speaker 1: And so I got saved and baptized on my lunch 195 00:09:52,320 --> 00:09:55,360 Speaker 1: break and drove back to that Christian salon like soaking 196 00:09:55,440 --> 00:09:58,839 Speaker 1: wet and ready to do a perm that day. You 197 00:09:58,840 --> 00:10:02,680 Speaker 1: were crying no, because I got baptized, the whole body done, 198 00:10:03,200 --> 00:10:06,240 Speaker 1: and that was it, you know. And so that started 199 00:10:06,360 --> 00:10:09,840 Speaker 1: my life, as you know, as a believer, and you know, 200 00:10:09,960 --> 00:10:12,120 Speaker 1: had some ups and downs along the way for sure. 201 00:10:12,240 --> 00:10:15,880 Speaker 6: But yeah, yeah, just because you believe doesn't take away 202 00:10:15,920 --> 00:10:16,560 Speaker 6: all the problems. 203 00:10:16,640 --> 00:10:19,400 Speaker 1: That's one hundred percent true. That really is true at least. 204 00:10:19,440 --> 00:10:22,439 Speaker 5: If not, you've not fully surrendered yet at this point. 205 00:10:22,760 --> 00:10:25,320 Speaker 1: Well, and again, you know, if you have never been 206 00:10:25,679 --> 00:10:28,559 Speaker 1: to church or never read the Bible, like what does 207 00:10:28,559 --> 00:10:30,360 Speaker 1: that look like? How do you even know where to begin? 208 00:10:30,640 --> 00:10:33,199 Speaker 2: You know? So who do you ask? What do you do? 209 00:10:33,440 --> 00:10:35,679 Speaker 1: And I think about that too. We walk, we walk 210 00:10:35,760 --> 00:10:37,880 Speaker 1: past people all day long. How many people are lost 211 00:10:37,960 --> 00:10:40,400 Speaker 1: or don't feel connected but don't know how to get 212 00:10:40,480 --> 00:10:44,120 Speaker 1: to a relationship with God or get you know, restoration 213 00:10:44,240 --> 00:10:46,240 Speaker 1: with family or if you don't know. 214 00:10:46,160 --> 00:10:48,200 Speaker 2: How do you what do you do? How do you 215 00:10:48,240 --> 00:10:48,840 Speaker 2: go about that? 216 00:10:49,720 --> 00:10:53,120 Speaker 6: So you have a successful business, you came to faith 217 00:10:53,880 --> 00:10:56,280 Speaker 6: and yet still there's a hole in your heart. What 218 00:10:56,320 --> 00:10:59,079 Speaker 6: did you feel inside of you? And then what did 219 00:10:59,080 --> 00:11:00,520 Speaker 6: you do to try to that whole? 220 00:11:01,080 --> 00:11:03,679 Speaker 1: I just I think I've always just felt like an outsider. 221 00:11:05,440 --> 00:11:07,600 Speaker 1: I think part of it being redheaded. Kids are mean 222 00:11:07,640 --> 00:11:09,719 Speaker 1: and brutal, you know, when you're red headed and you're 223 00:11:09,760 --> 00:11:12,600 Speaker 1: one of the few. And just always felt like I 224 00:11:12,679 --> 00:11:15,280 Speaker 1: was kind of an outcast. And so then moving to 225 00:11:15,840 --> 00:11:19,599 Speaker 1: Oklahoma from here that felt I felt like an outcast. 226 00:11:19,679 --> 00:11:23,160 Speaker 1: I didn't feel like I fit in and trying to 227 00:11:23,200 --> 00:11:27,680 Speaker 1: find your place, and so as an oldest child or 228 00:11:27,960 --> 00:11:30,679 Speaker 1: you know, I've lost my grandmother, one of my grandmothers 229 00:11:30,720 --> 00:11:33,760 Speaker 1: when I was young, so not having that relationship, having 230 00:11:33,800 --> 00:11:36,920 Speaker 1: some significant dad wounds in my life. Like you just 231 00:11:37,880 --> 00:11:39,800 Speaker 1: like you're just trying to make it. You're just trying 232 00:11:39,840 --> 00:11:43,160 Speaker 1: to have some sense of normalcy. But what is normal? 233 00:11:43,280 --> 00:11:46,120 Speaker 1: You know what is normal? It's it's everybody's own definition. 234 00:11:46,200 --> 00:11:46,560 Speaker 4: I think. 235 00:11:47,360 --> 00:11:52,000 Speaker 1: So, yeah, I tried the best I could with, you know, 236 00:11:52,080 --> 00:11:53,040 Speaker 1: with what I had. 237 00:11:53,240 --> 00:11:56,560 Speaker 6: Even something that many Memphians would see as normal. You're 238 00:11:56,559 --> 00:11:59,040 Speaker 6: talking about on the drive here that you grew up here, 239 00:11:59,040 --> 00:12:01,280 Speaker 6: and yet you're never too the peabody to see the ducks. 240 00:12:02,559 --> 00:12:04,480 Speaker 6: A lot of people here are like, yeah, that would 241 00:12:04,480 --> 00:12:08,800 Speaker 6: feel normal. But even we've interviewed people guess on the podcasts, 242 00:12:08,800 --> 00:12:10,640 Speaker 6: and I'm sure it's the same in Oklahoma City too, 243 00:12:10,720 --> 00:12:12,880 Speaker 6: that a lot of people, even in inner city neighborhood 244 00:12:12,880 --> 00:12:15,439 Speaker 6: have not gone five miles to downtown to Chicago to 245 00:12:15,440 --> 00:12:16,720 Speaker 6: see the lake, right. 246 00:12:16,520 --> 00:12:16,920 Speaker 4: And so. 247 00:12:18,480 --> 00:12:21,280 Speaker 6: Yeah, obviously your normal was different from a lot of people. 248 00:12:21,480 --> 00:12:23,480 Speaker 6: So I think you try to fill that hole with 249 00:12:23,880 --> 00:12:24,520 Speaker 6: was it drugs? 250 00:12:24,559 --> 00:12:25,000 Speaker 4: Alcohol? 251 00:12:25,120 --> 00:12:26,880 Speaker 5: What did you use to drugs? 252 00:12:26,920 --> 00:12:28,400 Speaker 2: Alcohol? Promiscuity? 253 00:12:29,000 --> 00:12:33,320 Speaker 1: Just you know, I love to travel, so I feel 254 00:12:33,320 --> 00:12:36,840 Speaker 1: like sometimes that's an escape for me and just trying 255 00:12:36,840 --> 00:12:39,640 Speaker 1: to fill it, you know, trying to fill it in relationships. 256 00:12:39,720 --> 00:12:42,640 Speaker 1: And then you know, if you have father wounds. 257 00:12:42,520 --> 00:12:43,480 Speaker 2: You know, what does that look like? 258 00:12:43,520 --> 00:12:47,080 Speaker 1: You're trying to just have a normal conversation with a man, 259 00:12:47,679 --> 00:12:50,960 Speaker 1: you know. So it was really trying to navigate some 260 00:12:51,000 --> 00:12:56,000 Speaker 1: difficult pathways and I'm pretty stubborn, so I didn't ask 261 00:12:56,040 --> 00:13:03,080 Speaker 1: for help, you know in that. So I think, you know, 262 00:13:03,240 --> 00:13:05,439 Speaker 1: just trying to find who I really am. And sometimes 263 00:13:05,480 --> 00:13:08,320 Speaker 1: I think many of us in life, even up to 264 00:13:08,360 --> 00:13:12,320 Speaker 1: our thirties, maybe sometimes even forties, like what's my purpose? 265 00:13:12,640 --> 00:13:15,120 Speaker 1: Surely I'm not here just taking up space on this planet, 266 00:13:15,200 --> 00:13:17,840 Speaker 1: like there's something more. And I felt like I was 267 00:13:17,840 --> 00:13:21,199 Speaker 1: always made for something more, to do something more or bigger, 268 00:13:21,880 --> 00:13:25,920 Speaker 1: and I just didn't know what that was until even. 269 00:13:25,679 --> 00:13:27,400 Speaker 6: A lot of people would feel, hey, you got a 270 00:13:27,400 --> 00:13:30,640 Speaker 6: successful business. I think you're had a husband and kids 271 00:13:30,760 --> 00:13:33,440 Speaker 6: at that point, like yeah, they would feel like that's 272 00:13:33,440 --> 00:13:34,040 Speaker 6: your purpose. 273 00:13:34,840 --> 00:13:39,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, no, yes, many people would feel that way. 274 00:13:39,679 --> 00:13:40,640 Speaker 2: But I'm very driven. 275 00:13:41,280 --> 00:13:44,040 Speaker 1: I don't usually take no for an answer very often. 276 00:13:44,640 --> 00:13:49,160 Speaker 1: I'm an innovative thinker. I'm a problem solver. So if 277 00:13:49,600 --> 00:13:52,120 Speaker 1: really it boils down to this, if you see a need, 278 00:13:52,160 --> 00:13:55,520 Speaker 1: you had been called. So in certain areas of my life, 279 00:13:55,640 --> 00:13:58,320 Speaker 1: I just had this innate need to want to help people, 280 00:13:58,800 --> 00:14:02,679 Speaker 1: and I wanted to maybe because I needed help or 281 00:14:02,720 --> 00:14:04,920 Speaker 1: I needed rescuing, and so I kind of want to 282 00:14:04,960 --> 00:14:07,440 Speaker 1: do the same kind of have the moniker of the 283 00:14:07,480 --> 00:14:10,280 Speaker 1: Mama Bear, you know, in Oklahoma City with many of 284 00:14:10,280 --> 00:14:13,320 Speaker 1: the ladies that I work with. So women are funny, 285 00:14:13,520 --> 00:14:17,240 Speaker 1: like we don't sometimes we don't like men after my man, 286 00:14:17,400 --> 00:14:21,240 Speaker 1: my money, my whatever. But it was our own insecurities 287 00:14:21,440 --> 00:14:24,840 Speaker 1: in ourselves, you know. So in what I do now, 288 00:14:24,920 --> 00:14:28,640 Speaker 1: we just helped fortify a sisterhood that elevates women to 289 00:14:28,720 --> 00:14:30,320 Speaker 1: be able to embrace everybody. 290 00:14:33,960 --> 00:14:37,560 Speaker 3: And now a few messages from our general sponsors. But first, 291 00:14:38,280 --> 00:14:43,800 Speaker 3: we've launched our first sex local service clubs around the 292 00:14:43,840 --> 00:14:47,120 Speaker 3: country and a time when only thirty three percent of 293 00:14:47,200 --> 00:14:50,400 Speaker 3: Americans are contributing in their community at the level that 294 00:14:50,440 --> 00:14:53,400 Speaker 3: they want to. The mission of these clubs is to 295 00:14:53,440 --> 00:14:57,840 Speaker 3: make more service easier for everyone. The first sex are 296 00:14:57,920 --> 00:15:05,120 Speaker 3: in my hometown Memphis, alex is hometown Oxford, then Wichita, Atlanta, 297 00:15:06,080 --> 00:15:12,120 Speaker 3: Ozak County, and North Duchess County, which is New York. 298 00:15:12,840 --> 00:15:14,960 Speaker 3: If you live in one of these areas, visit the 299 00:15:15,000 --> 00:15:18,160 Speaker 3: service club section of our site normal Folks dot us 300 00:15:18,200 --> 00:15:22,240 Speaker 3: and get plugged in. And if you don't live there 301 00:15:22,640 --> 00:15:27,160 Speaker 3: and you want a service club in your area, email 302 00:15:27,400 --> 00:15:30,960 Speaker 3: Alex Because these are the first six. These are the pilots, 303 00:15:31,000 --> 00:15:34,640 Speaker 3: but we're going to be doing more like other Army 304 00:15:34,640 --> 00:15:37,960 Speaker 3: members that are launching clubs in their communities later this year, 305 00:15:38,120 --> 00:15:44,560 Speaker 3: including San Antonio, Lincoln, Nebraska, Huntsville, Alabama, Lincoln County, Ohio, 306 00:15:44,960 --> 00:15:47,960 Speaker 3: Lorraine County, Ohio. If you happen to live in one 307 00:15:48,000 --> 00:15:51,360 Speaker 3: of these following areas and are interested, email Alex at 308 00:15:51,680 --> 00:15:54,400 Speaker 3: Army at normal folks dot us and he'll get you 309 00:15:54,400 --> 00:15:57,480 Speaker 3: connected to them. This is going to be fun. We'll 310 00:15:57,520 --> 00:15:58,080 Speaker 3: be right back. 311 00:16:13,120 --> 00:16:15,760 Speaker 6: So you did find your purpose in a way that 312 00:16:15,920 --> 00:16:19,360 Speaker 6: maybe wasn't ideal, but often is the way that people 313 00:16:19,480 --> 00:16:20,280 Speaker 6: find their purpose. 314 00:16:20,480 --> 00:16:21,000 Speaker 2: That's right. 315 00:16:21,320 --> 00:16:23,320 Speaker 5: Maybe a little bit more dramatic than most people, though, 316 00:16:23,960 --> 00:16:24,520 Speaker 5: that's true. 317 00:16:24,640 --> 00:16:27,080 Speaker 1: And because I feel like, you know, the rebel or 318 00:16:27,080 --> 00:16:30,040 Speaker 1: the stubbornness that I that I have, I think it 319 00:16:30,080 --> 00:16:33,240 Speaker 1: had to come in in a very firm direct way 320 00:16:33,320 --> 00:16:38,280 Speaker 1: that I wasn't anticipating, and it actually came through being incarcerated. 321 00:16:39,200 --> 00:16:42,560 Speaker 1: That's where I found my purpose. 322 00:16:43,360 --> 00:16:44,680 Speaker 5: Can you tell us the whole story. 323 00:16:45,320 --> 00:16:50,160 Speaker 1: So I was involved in an accident and I struck 324 00:16:50,120 --> 00:16:52,160 Speaker 1: a command that was standing on the side of the road. 325 00:16:52,520 --> 00:16:56,360 Speaker 1: I didn't see him there, and I was. 326 00:16:56,360 --> 00:16:59,040 Speaker 5: Remixing narcotics and alcohol was that they. 327 00:16:59,480 --> 00:17:03,680 Speaker 1: And I was leaving a funeral. I was at a 328 00:17:03,720 --> 00:17:07,040 Speaker 1: friend of mine's mom's funeral. And so you leave a 329 00:17:07,080 --> 00:17:11,480 Speaker 1: funeral and you create one. I mean, that's that's devastating. 330 00:17:12,320 --> 00:17:16,320 Speaker 1: And so I did have prescription medication. I was I 331 00:17:16,320 --> 00:17:17,119 Speaker 1: had depression. 332 00:17:17,240 --> 00:17:17,919 Speaker 2: I had. 333 00:17:20,119 --> 00:17:23,200 Speaker 1: You know, uppers down or they were all prescribed. None illegal, 334 00:17:23,560 --> 00:17:27,120 Speaker 1: lifted drugs or anything like that. That's how I justified it. Actually, 335 00:17:28,280 --> 00:17:33,080 Speaker 1: my doctor prescribed everything for me, and so you know, 336 00:17:33,920 --> 00:17:38,879 Speaker 1: you multitask, you know, texting and driving and just being 337 00:17:39,920 --> 00:17:45,200 Speaker 1: you know, making some grave, grave mistakes. And I struck 338 00:17:45,280 --> 00:17:48,320 Speaker 1: him as he was on the side of the road 339 00:17:48,600 --> 00:17:54,359 Speaker 1: and I hadn't even seen him there, yea. And the 340 00:17:54,400 --> 00:17:57,679 Speaker 1: sun was setting. It blocked part of the road, it 341 00:17:57,760 --> 00:18:00,399 Speaker 1: was darkened, and you know, I could go on and on, 342 00:18:00,520 --> 00:18:03,399 Speaker 1: but the truth is is that it was my fault. 343 00:18:03,480 --> 00:18:09,240 Speaker 1: It was my mistake. And so that sentence carries four 344 00:18:09,280 --> 00:18:14,520 Speaker 1: years to life in Oklahoma. And I was very grateful 345 00:18:14,560 --> 00:18:19,000 Speaker 1: to have family support during that time. And I ended 346 00:18:19,040 --> 00:18:23,160 Speaker 1: up with a five year sentence and I served four years, 347 00:18:23,160 --> 00:18:27,359 Speaker 1: four months, four weeks in one day. And it's shameful, 348 00:18:27,440 --> 00:18:30,040 Speaker 1: and I ask God sometimes, how is this part of 349 00:18:30,080 --> 00:18:30,760 Speaker 1: my story? 350 00:18:30,960 --> 00:18:31,080 Speaker 4: How? 351 00:18:31,520 --> 00:18:33,120 Speaker 2: Why is this part of my story? 352 00:18:33,800 --> 00:18:36,960 Speaker 1: I still wrestle with the shame and the guilt from that, 353 00:18:42,040 --> 00:18:46,040 Speaker 1: And so I was determined to do my life differently, 354 00:18:46,600 --> 00:18:48,280 Speaker 1: and I wanted it to count and I wanted to 355 00:18:48,280 --> 00:18:51,400 Speaker 1: make a difference. And you know, there's no do over. 356 00:18:51,520 --> 00:18:53,760 Speaker 1: You can't make up for that, you can never apologize 357 00:18:53,880 --> 00:18:55,280 Speaker 1: enough or repent enough. 358 00:18:55,640 --> 00:18:56,200 Speaker 2: It's just. 359 00:18:58,119 --> 00:19:00,959 Speaker 1: I just knew with all certainty, everything in me that 360 00:19:01,000 --> 00:19:06,720 Speaker 1: I wanted to do something different in honor of my victim, 361 00:19:06,840 --> 00:19:09,800 Speaker 1: to say it in that regard of him and his 362 00:19:09,840 --> 00:19:13,440 Speaker 1: family and whatever else. It was total surrendered whatever God 363 00:19:13,440 --> 00:19:15,520 Speaker 1: wanted to do at that point. And so I worked 364 00:19:15,520 --> 00:19:18,680 Speaker 1: in a beauty shop at the prison and the law library. 365 00:19:19,040 --> 00:19:22,639 Speaker 1: So I have a great idea about the Department of Correction, 366 00:19:22,840 --> 00:19:27,199 Speaker 1: their operations, procedures, and postconviction relief. 367 00:19:27,600 --> 00:19:29,520 Speaker 5: Maybe before we go, there's. 368 00:19:31,119 --> 00:19:35,320 Speaker 6: Your victim's family seems to have an interesting part in 369 00:19:35,320 --> 00:19:37,960 Speaker 6: this story because four years to life is a huge range, 370 00:19:38,760 --> 00:19:43,919 Speaker 6: and even though it's accidental, I was still surprised when 371 00:19:43,960 --> 00:19:45,520 Speaker 6: you told me that it was, you know, I think 372 00:19:45,520 --> 00:19:48,680 Speaker 6: around four and a half years that you ended up doing. Yeah, 373 00:19:48,880 --> 00:19:51,280 Speaker 6: you know, And it sounds like they played a pretty 374 00:19:51,400 --> 00:19:54,320 Speaker 6: graceful an amazing role in it, if you could talk 375 00:19:54,359 --> 00:19:54,760 Speaker 6: about that. 376 00:19:56,720 --> 00:19:59,760 Speaker 1: Well, to not know everything that they were feeling other 377 00:19:59,840 --> 00:20:05,600 Speaker 1: than and significant loss and I'm sure anger the family 378 00:20:07,040 --> 00:20:12,960 Speaker 1: had to say in the plea agreement, in the you know, 379 00:20:14,280 --> 00:20:17,640 Speaker 1: the court hearings and everything, and they knew I had 380 00:20:17,640 --> 00:20:19,480 Speaker 1: a thirteen year old daughter at the time, and a 381 00:20:19,520 --> 00:20:27,240 Speaker 1: three year old daughter, and they agreed to a lesser 382 00:20:27,920 --> 00:20:31,040 Speaker 1: time frame and that was part of the plea agreement 383 00:20:31,119 --> 00:20:32,879 Speaker 1: instead of taking it to jury trial. 384 00:20:34,119 --> 00:20:35,240 Speaker 2: There was nothing to debate. 385 00:20:35,400 --> 00:20:37,720 Speaker 1: I mean, there was nothing, no reason to go to 386 00:20:37,840 --> 00:20:44,000 Speaker 1: jury trial, and so they were gracious enough to I 387 00:20:44,040 --> 00:20:45,520 Speaker 1: don't want to say agree, because I don't want to 388 00:20:45,520 --> 00:20:48,560 Speaker 1: speak for them, but it happened in the way that 389 00:20:48,600 --> 00:20:51,800 Speaker 1: they had to say in the time that I had 390 00:20:51,800 --> 00:20:56,560 Speaker 1: to be incarcerated, and it was less than should have 391 00:20:56,640 --> 00:21:00,920 Speaker 1: been probably or less than the mac some sentence. 392 00:21:02,560 --> 00:21:05,439 Speaker 6: Have you heard anything like how often does that happen? 393 00:21:05,520 --> 00:21:08,440 Speaker 6: Percentage wise? It probably feels pretty rare to me that 394 00:21:08,680 --> 00:21:11,359 Speaker 6: maybe five or ten percent of families would respond with 395 00:21:11,400 --> 00:21:12,920 Speaker 6: that much forgiveness in the moment. 396 00:21:13,200 --> 00:21:13,720 Speaker 5: It's one thing. 397 00:21:13,760 --> 00:21:16,640 Speaker 6: Maybe one year later, five years later, it's ten years 398 00:21:16,720 --> 00:21:20,040 Speaker 6: later as you're wrestling with it as a family. But 399 00:21:20,720 --> 00:21:23,840 Speaker 6: for them to respond that way immediately, it is pretty heroic. 400 00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:27,480 Speaker 2: It is. And you know, I. 401 00:21:29,040 --> 00:21:33,320 Speaker 1: Pray that I don't want to say there's restorations one day. 402 00:21:35,080 --> 00:21:39,960 Speaker 1: I do pray that if they keep up with anything 403 00:21:40,040 --> 00:21:43,280 Speaker 1: I do, that they might see that lives are changed 404 00:21:44,480 --> 00:21:47,200 Speaker 1: in this tragedy. And that's what I can hope for. 405 00:21:47,560 --> 00:21:52,399 Speaker 1: You know, I don't expect there'd be some grandiose meeting 406 00:21:52,520 --> 00:21:56,199 Speaker 1: or something like that that would be wonderful, but I 407 00:21:56,240 --> 00:22:01,120 Speaker 1: don't need that. Whatever they ever would want to do, 408 00:22:01,320 --> 00:22:03,440 Speaker 1: I would be I would be open to that or 409 00:22:03,480 --> 00:22:07,119 Speaker 1: welcome to that. But I just have to keep going. 410 00:22:07,240 --> 00:22:09,320 Speaker 1: I have to keep going at the momentum that I'm 411 00:22:09,359 --> 00:22:14,000 Speaker 1: at because lives depend on it, and it's it's my 412 00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:19,880 Speaker 1: need or my want to help people or to make 413 00:22:19,960 --> 00:22:23,040 Speaker 1: my life make sense. After that, that's pretty hard to 414 00:22:23,119 --> 00:22:27,119 Speaker 1: have on your resume, on your life resume. It's not 415 00:22:27,160 --> 00:22:28,800 Speaker 1: anything I would have ever imagined. 416 00:22:29,359 --> 00:22:29,640 Speaker 2: You know. 417 00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:33,440 Speaker 1: I love people. I don't even like it hurting someone's feelings. 418 00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:36,880 Speaker 1: So to have that as part of my story, you know, 419 00:22:37,200 --> 00:22:40,000 Speaker 1: and I'm not the only one. So there are other 420 00:22:40,040 --> 00:22:44,880 Speaker 1: women even in my class that have anywhere from ten 421 00:22:44,960 --> 00:22:45,919 Speaker 1: years to life. 422 00:22:46,680 --> 00:22:49,000 Speaker 2: And so how do you reckon that? 423 00:22:49,160 --> 00:22:51,280 Speaker 1: You know, when someone has life and you say I 424 00:22:51,320 --> 00:22:54,119 Speaker 1: had five years and I understand what you're going through, 425 00:22:54,320 --> 00:22:57,200 Speaker 1: or you know they're in the very class and one 426 00:22:57,200 --> 00:23:01,159 Speaker 1: has life and one has eight why, you know, And 427 00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:03,520 Speaker 1: it's just the way that the sentencing guidelines are in 428 00:23:03,600 --> 00:23:07,879 Speaker 1: Oklahoma that a judge has the liberty to say you 429 00:23:07,920 --> 00:23:11,800 Speaker 1: get this and you get that, so there's nothing very 430 00:23:11,920 --> 00:23:13,120 Speaker 1: streamline about it. 431 00:23:14,320 --> 00:23:16,800 Speaker 2: That's why the vast range is what it is. 432 00:23:18,320 --> 00:23:19,879 Speaker 5: Well, I really appreciate you sharing all that. 433 00:23:19,920 --> 00:23:24,760 Speaker 6: I know it's really hard and not that what I 434 00:23:24,760 --> 00:23:28,240 Speaker 6: went through is the same thing. But unfortunately my ex 435 00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:30,840 Speaker 6: wife wanted a divorce and our listeners have heard me 436 00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:31,600 Speaker 6: talk about this. 437 00:23:31,800 --> 00:23:33,560 Speaker 5: But yeah, I know. 438 00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:36,320 Speaker 6: I mean, as a strong Catholic invented all my life 439 00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:38,679 Speaker 6: I single, I used to go to daily Mass like 440 00:23:38,720 --> 00:23:41,080 Speaker 6: I was, you know, been super into it and never 441 00:23:41,160 --> 00:23:43,200 Speaker 6: imagine that this would be my story, you know, as 442 00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:45,879 Speaker 6: you never imagine this would be never your story, and 443 00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:48,080 Speaker 6: it's it is hard to wrestle with and but I 444 00:23:48,119 --> 00:23:50,240 Speaker 6: do appreciate you sharing it. I was, if you've heard 445 00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:54,840 Speaker 6: I'm a big fan of Ddrich Bonhoeffer. Yes I'm basically paraphered. 446 00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:55,200 Speaker 4: If the thing is lying. 447 00:23:55,280 --> 00:23:57,480 Speaker 6: But he has this line that the problem with Christians 448 00:23:57,480 --> 00:24:00,000 Speaker 6: that there lonely in their sins, yes or their problem 449 00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:02,240 Speaker 6: and whereas the centers at the bar have so much 450 00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:04,679 Speaker 6: more fellowship with each other because they share everything. Right, 451 00:24:05,320 --> 00:24:07,159 Speaker 6: So I think it's really important for all of us 452 00:24:07,160 --> 00:24:09,960 Speaker 6: to share our trials that are going through because people 453 00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:12,879 Speaker 6: can learn from it, it also helps them feel us alone. Altherwise, 454 00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:14,720 Speaker 6: people just feel like I'm the only one going through this, 455 00:24:15,119 --> 00:24:17,560 Speaker 6: and the reality is we all are all carrying some 456 00:24:17,720 --> 00:24:18,720 Speaker 6: kind of cross. 457 00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:21,080 Speaker 1: Up the right and I did feel like I was 458 00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:23,800 Speaker 1: the only one. And it's the shame I think that 459 00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:28,239 Speaker 1: I carry with that. It's unimaginable. It's not something I 460 00:24:28,320 --> 00:24:30,879 Speaker 1: ever would have imagined for my life, you know. But 461 00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:34,119 Speaker 1: I do get the opportunity on occasion to share my 462 00:24:34,160 --> 00:24:38,719 Speaker 1: testimony and it's all that we're doing today basically in 463 00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:42,080 Speaker 1: a fifteen minute nutshell, you know, if you will, and 464 00:24:42,119 --> 00:24:44,240 Speaker 1: I get to share it with thousands and thousands of 465 00:24:44,280 --> 00:24:47,120 Speaker 1: people to say, this is part of my story, and 466 00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:50,840 Speaker 1: that portion of my life is the hardest portion that 467 00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:54,879 Speaker 1: I've had to go through because of the burden, the 468 00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:58,159 Speaker 1: weight and the burden that I bear from that. 469 00:24:58,640 --> 00:24:59,960 Speaker 5: Yeah, well, it's a gift to the world. 470 00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:02,160 Speaker 6: You're willing to tell it and tell it over again 471 00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:05,760 Speaker 6: because that's hard, and we're. 472 00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:07,120 Speaker 5: Going to get to the amazing work that you're doing. 473 00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:07,639 Speaker 4: At a minute. 474 00:25:08,920 --> 00:25:11,080 Speaker 6: If you mentioned the shame, I was going to plan 475 00:25:11,119 --> 00:25:13,399 Speaker 6: on talking about this closer to the end. But you 476 00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:16,919 Speaker 6: have an interesting line that like a lot of people 477 00:25:17,080 --> 00:25:19,800 Speaker 6: think about stigma and we need to get rid of 478 00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:22,199 Speaker 6: the stigma or the shame. Yeah, and you kind of 479 00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:24,520 Speaker 6: flip that on its head in an interesting way. 480 00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:25,640 Speaker 5: Can you talk about. 481 00:25:25,400 --> 00:25:28,159 Speaker 2: That well, to bear the shame and the guilt. 482 00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:31,240 Speaker 1: It's not anything I ever wanted to have on my 483 00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:32,720 Speaker 1: personal life's resume. 484 00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:35,000 Speaker 2: And in that, I. 485 00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:37,240 Speaker 1: Mean I wear that, I carry it. I think about 486 00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:40,040 Speaker 1: it every single day, I really every single day. I 487 00:25:40,119 --> 00:25:42,800 Speaker 1: know the anniversary date, I know how many years, I 488 00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:44,159 Speaker 1: know all those things. 489 00:25:44,520 --> 00:25:46,040 Speaker 2: I know the man's name. 490 00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:49,280 Speaker 1: I mean, it's very personal to me, and there's an 491 00:25:49,359 --> 00:25:52,760 Speaker 1: element about it that keeps me humbled. It keeps me grateful, 492 00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:57,439 Speaker 1: It keeps me moving forward. It keeps the momentum in 493 00:25:57,520 --> 00:26:00,680 Speaker 1: me to want to help other people and see restoration 494 00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:07,560 Speaker 1: for them or their families. I'm at sobriety and it 495 00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:10,600 Speaker 1: is very important to me, and I preach about that, 496 00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:13,879 Speaker 1: you know, to my family members or friends or you know, 497 00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:17,880 Speaker 1: about drinking and driving and and being mindful, you know. 498 00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:18,840 Speaker 2: So I use it. 499 00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:23,640 Speaker 1: I speak at the prisons, and that is it's I mean, 500 00:26:23,680 --> 00:26:25,600 Speaker 1: you can't have a testimony unless you've been through a 501 00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:27,840 Speaker 1: test right, And you can't have a message unless you've 502 00:26:27,840 --> 00:26:30,200 Speaker 1: been through a mess, and both of those have been mine. 503 00:26:30,359 --> 00:26:33,000 Speaker 1: So if I share it, then hopefully, even if it's 504 00:26:33,040 --> 00:26:36,560 Speaker 1: one person, and it changes them or helps them or 505 00:26:36,640 --> 00:26:39,679 Speaker 1: encourages them, then that one, that one person is who 506 00:26:39,760 --> 00:26:42,040 Speaker 1: it was for hopefully. 507 00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:45,480 Speaker 4: More we'll be right back. 508 00:26:57,600 --> 00:26:59,240 Speaker 5: I'm sure it's many more. Just given the number of 509 00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:00,320 Speaker 5: people in your program. 510 00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:03,280 Speaker 6: You taught it to them, then at least I think 511 00:27:03,320 --> 00:27:05,159 Speaker 6: you've packed it one hundred and eighty people from the 512 00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:07,520 Speaker 6: number I've heard, but I think it's probably far beyond that. 513 00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:08,840 Speaker 2: It is it is now. 514 00:27:09,119 --> 00:27:13,480 Speaker 5: Yes, I love your point. I'm just going to state 515 00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:14,280 Speaker 5: it too, that. 516 00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:19,320 Speaker 6: The shame or the sigma shouldn't go away because something 517 00:27:19,359 --> 00:27:19,919 Speaker 6: did happen. 518 00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:23,960 Speaker 5: And similarly, one of our guests who lost a. 519 00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:27,000 Speaker 6: Child through a choking accident said like, I don't want 520 00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:29,320 Speaker 6: it at the hurt to ever go away. And a 521 00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:30,920 Speaker 6: lot of people think you want it to go away, 522 00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:33,480 Speaker 6: but she's like, if it goes it fully goes away. 523 00:27:34,119 --> 00:27:36,240 Speaker 6: I'm not remembering my child and I always want to 524 00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:37,960 Speaker 6: feel my child close to my heart. 525 00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:39,200 Speaker 2: That's exactly right. 526 00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:44,200 Speaker 6: So you get to prison, what's day one, Like, what's 527 00:27:44,240 --> 00:27:45,679 Speaker 6: going through your head. 528 00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:51,359 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, never really been in any law enforcement 529 00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:56,200 Speaker 1: trouble before or anything like that. And so to be shackled, 530 00:27:56,320 --> 00:28:01,560 Speaker 1: you know with and again it's minimal compared to what 531 00:28:02,600 --> 00:28:06,600 Speaker 1: the other family went through. So I'm not whining and complaining. 532 00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:08,840 Speaker 1: I'm just describing. I just want to make that clear. 533 00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:11,879 Speaker 1: But to be shackled, and you have the black box 534 00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:15,679 Speaker 1: and the belly chains, and you know, you have the 535 00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:18,280 Speaker 1: your you're a number. Now you're a last name and 536 00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:21,320 Speaker 1: a number, and you're wearing the same thing as everybody else. 537 00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:26,919 Speaker 1: Your identity is gone. You're you know, you look like 538 00:28:27,040 --> 00:28:27,760 Speaker 1: everyone else. 539 00:28:28,119 --> 00:28:31,120 Speaker 5: And so there again your status is a business owner. 540 00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:31,919 Speaker 2: It's gone. 541 00:28:32,119 --> 00:28:35,800 Speaker 1: And uh, you know, I served divorce papers shortly after 542 00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:39,760 Speaker 1: I got to prison, and I'm a vegan, and so 543 00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:42,000 Speaker 1: you're at the time I was a vegetarian. How do 544 00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:45,000 Speaker 1: you go to prison be a vegetarian when everybody eats bologny, 545 00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:46,560 Speaker 1: you know, bologney sandwiches. 546 00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:49,320 Speaker 2: And so you have to learn yourself. 547 00:28:49,360 --> 00:28:53,200 Speaker 1: You have to adapt to these situations, you know, and 548 00:28:53,320 --> 00:28:55,400 Speaker 1: you have to say, okay, how do I survive this? 549 00:28:56,240 --> 00:28:59,200 Speaker 1: And I think about Victor Frunkel, you know, not to 550 00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:02,960 Speaker 1: liken it to a concentration camp. Please hear me on that. 551 00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:08,080 Speaker 1: My heart is for you know, the people that had 552 00:29:08,080 --> 00:29:12,360 Speaker 1: to endure the Holocaust. All I mean is you're away 553 00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:15,400 Speaker 1: from your family, You're having to adapt to new surroundings 554 00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:21,520 Speaker 1: and things you're not familiar with. And so I was 555 00:29:21,600 --> 00:29:24,080 Speaker 1: able to read that book Man Search for Significance while 556 00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:26,680 Speaker 1: I was there, and Dietrich Bonhoeffer's book, and I spent 557 00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:29,600 Speaker 1: a lot of time reading, and I found out about myself. 558 00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:32,440 Speaker 1: You know that I'm a survivor and you can keep going. 559 00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:39,240 Speaker 1: And it was terrifying. It was terrifying. I lost my husband, 560 00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:45,640 Speaker 1: my house, my business, my children we had. I was 561 00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:49,320 Speaker 1: indigent and so that means, you know, you have no 562 00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:53,000 Speaker 1: outside help, no outside financing coming in on your books, 563 00:29:53,600 --> 00:29:56,720 Speaker 1: and except for your gang pay or state pay, which 564 00:29:56,800 --> 00:29:59,520 Speaker 1: was the equivalent of about ten dollars a month. And 565 00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:04,240 Speaker 1: so God used that for me to help budget my nonprofit. Now, 566 00:30:04,320 --> 00:30:07,240 Speaker 1: so I can budget that nonprofit pretty well and make 567 00:30:07,280 --> 00:30:12,160 Speaker 1: it work. But it's like, Okay, I was starting to 568 00:30:12,160 --> 00:30:13,760 Speaker 1: find out who I am, But now who am I? 569 00:30:13,880 --> 00:30:16,680 Speaker 1: Who am I all over again? And so the beautiful 570 00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:19,760 Speaker 1: thing is God turns beauty. He makes beauty out of ashes, 571 00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:21,960 Speaker 1: and so that's what he did while I was here. 572 00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:25,600 Speaker 6: I've heard you talk about that you did surrender to 573 00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:30,960 Speaker 6: God in prison, but that didn't necessarily change everything for you. 574 00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:33,280 Speaker 6: That you still felt a loss, which is I found 575 00:30:33,320 --> 00:30:37,400 Speaker 6: interesting is when most people talk about surrendering the idea 576 00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:40,120 Speaker 6: as well, you have this incredible piece and your life 577 00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:43,320 Speaker 6: is radically transformed. And I think that's probably true for 578 00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:45,440 Speaker 6: a lot of people. So I thought talked to how 579 00:30:45,480 --> 00:30:46,520 Speaker 6: you did not feel that way. 580 00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:50,239 Speaker 1: Yeah, No, mine was probably gradually because I think I 581 00:30:50,360 --> 00:30:53,400 Speaker 1: stated it right now just a few minutes ago, that 582 00:30:53,560 --> 00:30:58,520 Speaker 1: I am stubborn. I'm very much driven in whatever I do. 583 00:30:59,160 --> 00:31:03,880 Speaker 1: Somehow I think I'm the manager of everything. And it's 584 00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:06,800 Speaker 1: really laying it down. It's really surrendering saying God, I 585 00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:09,120 Speaker 1: won't pick it back up again. You have it because 586 00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:11,320 Speaker 1: I don't know what to do. Clearly, I've made a 587 00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:14,720 Speaker 1: mess of everything. So you teach me now. And so 588 00:31:15,040 --> 00:31:18,200 Speaker 1: that's that's what that that's what that looks like to me, 589 00:31:18,360 --> 00:31:20,920 Speaker 1: to literally lay it down and say your way, not 590 00:31:21,040 --> 00:31:21,480 Speaker 1: my way. 591 00:31:22,120 --> 00:31:24,080 Speaker 2: And I when I interview my. 592 00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:26,400 Speaker 1: New students, I asked them that I asked them one thing, 593 00:31:26,440 --> 00:31:27,440 Speaker 1: I say, are you teachable? 594 00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:29,560 Speaker 2: And I think for me it was that. 595 00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:35,240 Speaker 1: And I really don't take mostly direction from you know, 596 00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:39,000 Speaker 1: just from anybody. I'm pretty particular. But I needed to 597 00:31:39,040 --> 00:31:42,200 Speaker 1: take direction from the Lord. And he's the one that said, 598 00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:45,120 Speaker 1: you know, walk this way, here's the way, walk in 599 00:31:45,160 --> 00:31:47,280 Speaker 1: it left right, here we go, and. 600 00:31:49,080 --> 00:31:50,600 Speaker 2: And that was it. 601 00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:53,680 Speaker 1: It was just me surrendering to whatever he wanted to do. 602 00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:58,280 Speaker 1: And you know, there was a lot of blood, sweat, tears, crying, 603 00:31:58,360 --> 00:32:00,800 Speaker 1: a lot of anguish, a lot of loss. And I 604 00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:04,200 Speaker 1: liken it to a pruning season, but I'm reminded that 605 00:32:04,280 --> 00:32:06,600 Speaker 1: there's a beginning and and end to the pruning season. 606 00:32:06,680 --> 00:32:09,520 Speaker 1: You just moved to another prunting season. And so there 607 00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:11,800 Speaker 1: was a lot of old me that needed to go, 608 00:32:12,880 --> 00:32:16,840 Speaker 1: like where he says, you know, if there's anything in me, 609 00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:19,360 Speaker 1: you know that you don't like, Lord, lay it on 610 00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:21,920 Speaker 1: the altar and burn it up, you know, put me 611 00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:22,880 Speaker 1: on the Potter's wheel. 612 00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:25,000 Speaker 2: You do what you need to do in my life. 613 00:32:25,320 --> 00:32:27,880 Speaker 1: And so it's that that was hard to surrender that 614 00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:32,320 Speaker 1: because I had to surrender loss and brokenness from my childhood. 615 00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:36,440 Speaker 1: Some family members wrote me off, cut me off, and 616 00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:40,040 Speaker 1: then getting served divorce papers while you're in prison, and 617 00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:41,960 Speaker 1: it's like you come to the end of yourself, and 618 00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:43,760 Speaker 1: just when you think you come to the end of yourself, 619 00:32:43,920 --> 00:32:47,640 Speaker 1: you have not There's still more ending. So it's that 620 00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:51,680 Speaker 1: when I couldn't rely on all the money that I 621 00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:54,320 Speaker 1: made because it wasn't there anymore. I couldn't rely on 622 00:32:54,400 --> 00:32:57,320 Speaker 1: family members always bringing my children to see me because 623 00:32:57,360 --> 00:33:01,480 Speaker 1: sometimes they weren't. I couldn't rely on a husband, and 624 00:33:01,680 --> 00:33:04,480 Speaker 1: all I had was like you know when God said, 625 00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:06,520 Speaker 1: he talks about it in Isaiah fifty four, he says, 626 00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:08,600 Speaker 1: I will be your husband, And so that's kind of 627 00:33:08,640 --> 00:33:11,600 Speaker 1: what I had to take his lead. He showed me 628 00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:15,360 Speaker 1: what a father's love was, which I was not familiar with. 629 00:33:15,680 --> 00:33:19,320 Speaker 1: He showed me what surrender was, being obedient and humble 630 00:33:20,080 --> 00:33:23,520 Speaker 1: and you take your eyes off yourself. There's a big 631 00:33:23,520 --> 00:33:27,040 Speaker 1: world out there that needs help. And so I feel 632 00:33:27,040 --> 00:33:30,000 Speaker 1: like he called me to go to the next step. 633 00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:34,080 Speaker 6: Surrendering, to the point where you say, you're not even 634 00:33:34,120 --> 00:33:35,760 Speaker 6: asking God to get me the hell out of here, 635 00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:37,040 Speaker 6: like a lot of her. 636 00:33:37,480 --> 00:33:40,600 Speaker 1: Well, that's interesting, right, And I did, and I had 637 00:33:40,600 --> 00:33:43,320 Speaker 1: a year review. Actually, so after I was there a year, 638 00:33:43,560 --> 00:33:46,640 Speaker 1: I still had not surrendered. So in that year I 639 00:33:46,720 --> 00:33:48,840 Speaker 1: had one year to go back to court, and they 640 00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:51,440 Speaker 1: were the judge was going to say, well, you know, 641 00:33:51,520 --> 00:33:54,200 Speaker 1: well done, good and faithful servant, go home early or not. 642 00:33:54,960 --> 00:33:55,800 Speaker 2: And so I. 643 00:33:55,720 --> 00:33:58,160 Speaker 1: Thought, if you get a year review, that's a that's 644 00:33:58,200 --> 00:34:00,600 Speaker 1: a shoe, and I'm going home. So I took all 645 00:34:00,600 --> 00:34:02,600 Speaker 1: these Bible studies and did all this. I had one 646 00:34:02,640 --> 00:34:06,320 Speaker 1: hundred certificates and I went back to court and the 647 00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:09,680 Speaker 1: judge said on record, he said it was an unfortunate accident, 648 00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:11,960 Speaker 1: but no, you got to go back and finish this time. 649 00:34:12,560 --> 00:34:15,359 Speaker 1: And I was gutted, and I thought I did all 650 00:34:15,360 --> 00:34:17,960 Speaker 1: this work, so it was performance based. It wasn't a 651 00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:21,279 Speaker 1: true surrender. So at that point, like I didn't want 652 00:34:21,280 --> 00:34:24,040 Speaker 1: to live. I was like, I'm done. What else is there? 653 00:34:24,520 --> 00:34:28,399 Speaker 1: The four years left seems like a lifetime. You know, 654 00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:31,000 Speaker 1: who couldn't wait on your wife for four years, or 655 00:34:31,040 --> 00:34:34,440 Speaker 1: who couldn't wait on a family member for four years? 656 00:34:35,160 --> 00:34:38,160 Speaker 1: It might feel like a lifetime. But anyway, it didn't 657 00:34:38,160 --> 00:34:39,680 Speaker 1: work out that way, so I had to go back 658 00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:41,680 Speaker 1: and that's when it happened. I was like, I have 659 00:34:41,760 --> 00:34:44,560 Speaker 1: nothing else. I barely even have hope, but I'm writing 660 00:34:44,560 --> 00:34:47,400 Speaker 1: this thing out with you God, so let's go. And 661 00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:51,200 Speaker 1: it was that when I began working in the beauty 662 00:34:51,200 --> 00:34:53,640 Speaker 1: shop and the law library and everything at that point. 663 00:34:53,719 --> 00:34:55,719 Speaker 5: So all right, let's get into the fun stuff. Take 664 00:34:55,800 --> 00:34:56,120 Speaker 5: us there. 665 00:34:56,280 --> 00:34:58,759 Speaker 6: I didn't even think ever before in my whole life 666 00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:00,680 Speaker 6: that there was a beauty shop in Britain. I know, 667 00:35:00,840 --> 00:35:03,400 Speaker 6: it makes sense, yeah, it just never. It's probably never 668 00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:04,520 Speaker 6: cross most people's minds. 669 00:35:04,680 --> 00:35:05,680 Speaker 2: No Orange, just New Black. 670 00:35:05,719 --> 00:35:07,439 Speaker 1: I don't know if they show the beauty shop in there, 671 00:35:07,480 --> 00:35:10,719 Speaker 1: but you know, there's a barbershop in a beauty shop, 672 00:35:10,719 --> 00:35:13,120 Speaker 1: and especially in Oklahoma, it's kind of part of the 673 00:35:13,200 --> 00:35:15,719 Speaker 1: operation procedure. You have to have a means to be 674 00:35:15,719 --> 00:35:17,879 Speaker 1: able to have some grooming, and so there was that, 675 00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:21,080 Speaker 1: and sometimes it's a little makeshift closet and anyway, so 676 00:35:21,120 --> 00:35:23,840 Speaker 1: I worked in the beauty shop, and i'd been a 677 00:35:23,840 --> 00:35:27,120 Speaker 1: salon owner, so they kind of let me be a 678 00:35:27,160 --> 00:35:30,400 Speaker 1: little bit of a super have a supervisory position. So 679 00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:32,360 Speaker 1: the girls that didn't want to work in the kitchen, 680 00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:35,560 Speaker 1: that could braid hair thought that they were, you know, 681 00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:37,200 Speaker 1: due to work in the beauty shop. So they would 682 00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:39,640 Speaker 1: come and do interviews and I'd ask them to do 683 00:35:39,680 --> 00:35:42,719 Speaker 1: a haircut, and they're terrible and I said, I thought 684 00:35:42,760 --> 00:35:44,439 Speaker 1: you went to beauty school and they said I didn't 685 00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:47,239 Speaker 1: get finished. And I kept hearing that over and over. 686 00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:48,439 Speaker 1: I didn't finish. I didn't finish. 687 00:35:48,520 --> 00:35:49,239 Speaker 2: And I said, if you. 688 00:35:49,239 --> 00:35:51,960 Speaker 1: Do anything, what would you do. I said, I would 689 00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:55,640 Speaker 1: finish beauty school. M So, one day I was doing 690 00:35:55,680 --> 00:35:58,440 Speaker 1: a shampoo and I always say I met God at 691 00:35:58,440 --> 00:36:01,040 Speaker 1: the shampoo bowl. I fell like he spoke to my 692 00:36:01,120 --> 00:36:03,520 Speaker 1: heart and said, one day you're going to come back 693 00:36:03,560 --> 00:36:06,240 Speaker 1: and start a school. And I said, it says inmate 694 00:36:06,320 --> 00:36:07,360 Speaker 1: on the back of my shirt. 695 00:36:07,520 --> 00:36:08,279 Speaker 2: Are you kidding me? 696 00:36:08,840 --> 00:36:12,840 Speaker 1: And I really felt that way, and no, it's I 697 00:36:13,200 --> 00:36:15,799 Speaker 1: just pursued it. I knew he said it. I could 698 00:36:15,840 --> 00:36:18,600 Speaker 1: count on him to be faithful and truthful with me, 699 00:36:19,160 --> 00:36:21,560 Speaker 1: and I couldn't see it any other way. So I 700 00:36:21,640 --> 00:36:24,600 Speaker 1: began speaking speaking to other people about it and talking 701 00:36:24,640 --> 00:36:27,360 Speaker 1: about it to the case managers and they're like, okay, 702 00:36:27,400 --> 00:36:31,400 Speaker 1: crazy lady, Sure that's never happened before. And I just 703 00:36:31,480 --> 00:36:33,399 Speaker 1: kept saying, one of these days, hey, when I come back, 704 00:36:33,719 --> 00:36:35,480 Speaker 1: that's what I'm going to do when I come back. 705 00:36:35,840 --> 00:36:37,919 Speaker 2: And they said, okay, okay, sure. 706 00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:39,640 Speaker 6: I think they've heard that kind of crazy stuff from 707 00:36:39,680 --> 00:36:41,320 Speaker 6: a lot of pony for sure. 708 00:36:41,680 --> 00:36:43,799 Speaker 1: I wanted to call it color corrections, and I didn't. 709 00:36:43,840 --> 00:36:45,120 Speaker 1: They didn't think that was funny, you know. 710 00:36:45,600 --> 00:36:45,719 Speaker 2: Uh. 711 00:36:45,880 --> 00:36:47,880 Speaker 1: And I worked in the law library as well, and 712 00:36:47,960 --> 00:36:50,319 Speaker 1: I helped the ladies with their year review or their 713 00:36:50,960 --> 00:36:53,440 Speaker 1: you know, all their paperwork to go back to court. 714 00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:55,520 Speaker 1: So I learned a lot about the court system and 715 00:36:55,719 --> 00:37:01,280 Speaker 1: justice impacted individuals, and the ops for Department of Corrections, 716 00:37:01,320 --> 00:37:03,920 Speaker 1: which I use every day now, the tool cage and 717 00:37:03,960 --> 00:37:07,359 Speaker 1: what that looks like, and the log books and all 718 00:37:07,400 --> 00:37:09,560 Speaker 1: the things that are necessary. I didn't know it at 719 00:37:09,560 --> 00:37:16,760 Speaker 1: the time, and yeah, so I just began talking about it, saying, 720 00:37:16,800 --> 00:37:18,560 Speaker 1: matter of factly, this is what God said, and this 721 00:37:18,600 --> 00:37:22,080 Speaker 1: is what I'm going to do. And I had one beautiful, 722 00:37:22,120 --> 00:37:25,920 Speaker 1: wonderful lady, doctor Pittman, and she was up top worked 723 00:37:25,960 --> 00:37:30,439 Speaker 1: in administration, very close to the director, and I would 724 00:37:30,440 --> 00:37:33,279 Speaker 1: see her occasionally. They moved me to another facility, I 725 00:37:33,280 --> 00:37:35,200 Speaker 1: would see her. I said, hey, to remember me, I'm 726 00:37:35,239 --> 00:37:36,400 Speaker 1: coming back to start a school. 727 00:37:36,480 --> 00:37:38,440 Speaker 2: She's like, okay, yeah, I do. I do. 728 00:37:39,000 --> 00:37:41,040 Speaker 1: And then she said, okay, fine, come and see me 729 00:37:41,080 --> 00:37:41,680 Speaker 1: when you get out. 730 00:37:41,920 --> 00:37:42,440 Speaker 2: The next day. 731 00:37:42,480 --> 00:37:44,160 Speaker 1: When I got out, I went to see her and 732 00:37:44,200 --> 00:37:46,800 Speaker 1: she said, oh, my gosh, you're not kidding, I said. 733 00:37:46,680 --> 00:37:47,839 Speaker 2: So, when are we going to do this? 734 00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:50,160 Speaker 1: So it went on a couple more years, and I 735 00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:52,760 Speaker 1: just kept saying I opened up a bank account by faith. 736 00:37:53,040 --> 00:37:56,000 Speaker 1: I went to Saddleback Church in Lake Forest, California and said, 737 00:37:56,000 --> 00:37:57,520 Speaker 1: in front of four thousand people. 738 00:37:57,320 --> 00:37:58,560 Speaker 2: I've started a beauty school. 739 00:37:58,600 --> 00:38:00,560 Speaker 1: And I didn't have a dollar to my name or 740 00:38:00,600 --> 00:38:02,799 Speaker 1: a bank account at the time. And I was just like, 741 00:38:03,120 --> 00:38:05,600 Speaker 1: I said, boy Lord, you really better come through on this. 742 00:38:10,200 --> 00:38:14,200 Speaker 3: And that concludes Part one of our conversation with Christy Luther, 743 00:38:14,320 --> 00:38:16,680 Speaker 3: and you don't want to miss part two that's now 744 00:38:16,800 --> 00:38:21,320 Speaker 3: available to listen to. Together, guys, we can change this country, 745 00:38:21,640 --> 00:38:22,480 Speaker 3: and it starts with you. 746 00:38:22,960 --> 00:38:23,960 Speaker 4: I'll see in part two.