Speaker 1: Hello everyone, and welcome to another episode of Inside the
Speaker 1: Studio on I Heart Radio. My name's Jordan Runtag, but
Speaker 1: enough about me. My guest today is one of the
Speaker 1: great innovators of popular music, blending blues, rock, jazz and funk,
Speaker 1: and there his own unique creation. I suppose it's only
Speaker 1: appropriate that one of his most enduring songs is named Frankenstein.
Speaker 1: Oral amalgamation is his specialty. He's a veteran of woodstock,
Speaker 1: an early synth pioneer, and a master of many instruments.
Speaker 1: In short, he's a rock and roll hero, and now
Speaker 1: he's using his permidable talents to honor his own hero
Speaker 1: older brother, Johnny Winter, the legendary acts man who died
Speaker 1: in After years spent processing his grief, he's assembled an
Speaker 1: electrifying new record called Brother Johnny Do, out April fifteen.
Speaker 1: It's less a tribute album and more of a musical biography,
Speaker 1: charting the course of Johnny's life through seventeen songs. These
Speaker 1: include covers of his old favorites like Johnny Be Good
Speaker 1: and Highway sixty one Revisited, as well as he vamped
Speaker 1: versions of his own songs like Self Destructive Blues and
Speaker 1: of course rock and roll hu Chi Kou. There are
Speaker 1: also new original tracks penned in his brother's memory. The
Speaker 1: album includes an astonishing array of rock and roll heavy
Speaker 1: hitters we've all turned out to play their best for
Speaker 1: the late Texas Blues icon. Among them are Joe Walsh,
Speaker 1: Ringo Star, Joe Bonamassa, Billy Gibbons, Steve Luthaker, Michael McDonald, Kebmo,
Speaker 1: Derek Truck's and Taylor Hawkins, who died shortly after taping
Speaker 1: this interview. More than just a deeply touching retrospective, it's
Speaker 1: an album that truly rocks and I can't wait for
Speaker 1: you to check it out. I'm so happy to welcome
Speaker 1: Mr Edgar Winner. There was an interview you gave not
Speaker 1: too long ago where you were asked to define the
Speaker 1: blues and you defined it as transforming suffering into joy
Speaker 1: and I thought that was beautiful and that phrase stuck
Speaker 1: with me as I was listening to brother John an
Speaker 1: him and there's a lot of joy coming through on
Speaker 1: these tracks, but obviously there's this, It's underscored by this,
Speaker 1: this tremendous loss as well. What was it like for
Speaker 1: you putting this record together? Was it cathartic for you.
Speaker 1: It was. Indeed, I spent years not making this record.
Speaker 1: I was well. First of all, shortly after Johnny's death, Uh,
Speaker 1: I had a number of requests, uh, you know, to
Speaker 1: do a tribute album. I was just adamantly opposed to
Speaker 1: doing it. I was devastated by Johnny's death, and uh,
Speaker 1: it just didn't feel like the right time, and and
Speaker 1: it seemed like exploitation of Johnny's name. I just wasn't ready,
Speaker 1: you know, to be honest, and uh, and it took.
Speaker 1: It took a number of years. But what started that
Speaker 1: process with this tour that we did together, which we
Speaker 1: had been scheduled to do. Johnny was in Europe at
Speaker 1: the time of his death, and there was a thing
Speaker 1: called the Rock and Blues Fest, and we were both
Speaker 1: scheduled to appear with our respective bands and then there
Speaker 1: would be jamming at the end. And I had just thought, well,
Speaker 1: surely this is gonna be uh, this is gonna be canceled.
Speaker 1: But much to my surprise, the promoters wanted it to
Speaker 1: go on as planned with me and my band as
Speaker 1: the headliners. And I thought, oh, this is this is
Speaker 1: this could be brutal, this could be very difficult and
Speaker 1: highly emotional. And uh, the I'll never forget the first
Speaker 1: night of that tour after I did Frankenstein, I did
Speaker 1: Rock and Roll, who She Coup and Uh alive and
Speaker 1: well and uh, I forget Johnny be Good three or
Speaker 1: four of Johnny songs and dedicate the end of the
Speaker 1: of the set to my brother Johnny. And Uh there
Speaker 1: was a great source of strength and comfort in playing
Speaker 1: those songs, and everybody on that tour, well, there was
Speaker 1: so much love and respect for Johnny, and everybody would
Speaker 1: uh would get up to jam at the end, and
Speaker 1: it sort of became a tradition. And it helped me
Speaker 1: realize that that this wasn't simply a question of uh
Speaker 1: making an album and people sensing a business opportunity. It
Speaker 1: was Johnny's devoted fans that really wanted to see this happen,
Speaker 1: and uh that that was the beginning of it. Uh.
Speaker 1: And the people I really want to acknowledge, first of all,
Speaker 1: my wife, Monique, my lovely wife of forty two years
Speaker 1: uh uh and we have our first anniversary coming up
Speaker 1: this month. Congratulations, No, thank you, not that for rock
Speaker 1: and Roller, true yeah, Uh, and uh I trust she's
Speaker 1: such an intuitive heart, sooner giving person. I think, uh,
Speaker 1: musicians are pretty self absorbed in general, and that that
Speaker 1: was uh the case with me for many years. But
Speaker 1: I trust her intuition more than my analytical thinking and
Speaker 1: reasoning about it. And she said, well, of course, from
Speaker 1: everything I've ever heard you say, Johnny is your all
Speaker 1: time musical hero and if it weren't for him, you
Speaker 1: wouldn't be where you are today. So you you know,
Speaker 1: you owe that to that, that acknowledgement to yourself and
Speaker 1: uh uh to Johnny and to the world. And that
Speaker 1: made perfect sense to me. And so uh then the
Speaker 1: next thing that occurred was I met Bruce Corto, who
Speaker 1: was uh the president of Quarto Valley Records, which is
Speaker 1: a small custom label, and uh he honestly and sincerely
Speaker 1: he loves Johnny. He wanted to bring that music to
Speaker 1: the world for all the right reasons, and he said, agrew,
Speaker 1: you can have as long as you want and do
Speaker 1: it exactly however you want. You know, may have opinions
Speaker 1: from time to time, but uh, this is this is
Speaker 1: up to you. So uh I knew he was the
Speaker 1: right person to make the album. And thirdly, and finally,
Speaker 1: I want to thank Ross Hogarth the engineer, mixer and producer.
Speaker 1: It was really a co creation. And Ross Uh I
Speaker 1: worked with on my last album, Rebel Road. UH and
Speaker 1: Uh when we completed that project, I said, in my
Speaker 1: mind and heart, I'm never gonna work with with another
Speaker 1: UH mixer other than Moss. He was just the greatest
Speaker 1: and he was just Uh he as I said, loves
Speaker 1: Johnny as much as I do, and it's as familiar
Speaker 1: with his material. And Uh, I hadn't realized the extent
Speaker 1: to which Ross was going to become involved. I just
Speaker 1: had him as the engineer mixer, but we really ended
Speaker 1: up it's really a co created album. And he suggested
Speaker 1: so many people. Uh brought so many great people into
Speaker 1: the project. Uh Phil Lex for example, he plays with
Speaker 1: bon Jovi, who I knew who he was, but I
Speaker 1: was not that familiar with his playing. People like David Grissom,
Speaker 1: who fellow Texan and great guitarists. Uh. He also suggested
Speaker 1: John McPhee to do the slide on on Highway sixty
Speaker 1: one when we were trying to think of of UH
Speaker 1: fly people. Uh, Doyle bram Hall, Uh, you know, to
Speaker 1: do the acoustic uh the version of when you've got
Speaker 1: a good friend, which uh Johnny always had one of
Speaker 1: those those beautiful old style Delta acoustic songs. So thank
Speaker 1: you Ross and the there you have it. That's that's
Speaker 1: how it all be game and all again right here
Speaker 1: in in Winterland, my little home studio. But I did
Speaker 1: all the keyboard parts here at home, and here's my
Speaker 1: sixty seven and I sang all the vocals on and uh,
Speaker 1: you know it. I honestly I had thought that it.
Speaker 1: I knew it was gonna be emotional, and I thought
Speaker 1: it might be difficult, and uh there was a lot
Speaker 1: of laughter and some tears along the way, but it
Speaker 1: really did turn out to be a joyous experience. Uh
Speaker 1: so that's the beginning, so uh far away with more questions. Oh,
Speaker 1: I mean, it's it comes across as such a celebration
Speaker 1: and just the structure the album so cool because these
Speaker 1: songs chart the course of Johnny's life in the sense
Speaker 1: it's like a musical biography. And for anyone who loves music,
Speaker 1: you kind of you love playing that game with yourself
Speaker 1: of sort of tracing songs back to the beginning to
Speaker 1: find out, you know what the songs were the first
Speaker 1: got you hooked on music. What was the process like
Speaker 1: for you of choosing the songs that you were going
Speaker 1: to include on this album? Uh, it was very interesting.
Speaker 1: The first question in my mind was should I do
Speaker 1: a straight ahead blues record, a traditional blues record and
Speaker 1: just pay tribute to the great legacy that Johnny left
Speaker 1: the world, or should it be uh more personal dedication
Speaker 1: from me to my brother based on my own particular
Speaker 1: personal favorite and Uh, I decided it it should be
Speaker 1: a balance of both. And uh, you know Johnny. Johnny
Speaker 1: always encouraged me, uh two follow my heart uh with music,
Speaker 1: and I love uh jazz and classical as well as
Speaker 1: blues and country and rock and all pretty much all style.
Speaker 1: I think, Uh, when it came to selecting the songs,
Speaker 1: I feel like Johnny had more depth and scope than
Speaker 1: a lot of people realize. And his first love obviously
Speaker 1: was the blues, and his authenticity as a as a
Speaker 1: blues player, particularly his slide guitar, was the thing that
Speaker 1: most impressed me. Uh, I think unparalleled. I don't. I
Speaker 1: can't think anybody who really, I mean, our musical tastes
Speaker 1: were somewhat different, but when it came to selecting the songs,
Speaker 1: I thought, well, There are obvious songs that people associate
Speaker 1: with Johnny, the songs like Still Alive and Well and
Speaker 1: rock and Roll Whuchi Ku that are just uh absolute
Speaker 1: songs that you you couldn't imagine doing an album without those.
Speaker 1: And then there are all of those songs that Johnny
Speaker 1: became associated with uh over the year, sounds like uh
Speaker 1: like Jumping Jack Flash that he played with Johnny Winter
Speaker 1: and which I thought was just a great rock band,
Speaker 1: and uh Highway sixty one. He he loved Dylan, he
Speaker 1: loved the Stones, and UH I didn't Uh, I couldn't
Speaker 1: imagine leaving those out. And then there were songs like
Speaker 1: uh more obscure songs. It's not like Stranger, for example,
Speaker 1: which I think is a beautiful ballad and very uncharacteristic
Speaker 1: of the style that Johnny usually writes in, and it
Speaker 1: reveals a sensitive, vulnerable side that that you don't usually
Speaker 1: see uh in in Johnny. And uh uh then you know,
Speaker 1: uh self destructive blues. Uh was always my favorite Johnny
Speaker 1: shuffle and he he loved shuffles, and you know, he
Speaker 1: did a lot of the traditional blues shuffles. But I
Speaker 1: love that one because it has a great sense of
Speaker 1: humor and it's it's uh, you know, to to talk about. Uh,
Speaker 1: that's what the blues is. It's telling your story. And
Speaker 1: to write that song self destructive Blues, it was just
Speaker 1: so cool to me. It's got a great a great
Speaker 1: real just always one of my favorites. Uh. Then Uh,
Speaker 1: I had to do john and My on tears. Uh
Speaker 1: was the most emotional song on on the album. Uh
Speaker 1: for me. Uh, I had always felt like Johnny did
Speaker 1: that song especially for me at the time. It was
Speaker 1: on his first uh CBS album and he knew how
Speaker 1: much I loved Ray Charles. Ray Charles was was my inspiration.
Speaker 1: And uh, Johnny loved the old Delta blues, the people
Speaker 1: like like Lightning Hopkins and Alan Wolfe and Muddy of
Speaker 1: course uh, and I gravitated more towards the urban style
Speaker 1: of blues, people like Ray Charles and Bobby Blue Bland
Speaker 1: and and uh uh O t bone Walker, guys like
Speaker 1: that of BB King. Uh. And he asked me, and
Speaker 1: it was so surprised me because he said, Edgar, can
Speaker 1: you know, just write out the horn charts just like
Speaker 1: Ray did it and played the piano and uh, he said,
Speaker 1: I just want to do it that way just like
Speaker 1: Ray did it. There's not even any guitar on it,
Speaker 1: but I always felt like like he did it for
Speaker 1: me because he he wanted me to be able to
Speaker 1: express something on that album in the style that he
Speaker 1: knew I loved. So when it came time for me
Speaker 1: to do that song on this album, UH, I felt
Speaker 1: like like I was singing it back to him the
Speaker 1: way he sang it to me so many years ago
Speaker 1: when he was so young and alive. And not only
Speaker 1: to him, but to my mother and father who have
Speaker 1: passed on, and all the past members of bands that
Speaker 1: that I've had the honor to share the stage with,
Speaker 1: the last surviving member of the Ugar Winner group, Dan
Speaker 1: Hartman and Ronny Mancho's Chapra uh are all gone, Jerry Lacrosse,
Speaker 1: the lead singer in White Trash. But you know, I've
Speaker 1: really broke down doing that song, uh, but got through
Speaker 1: it and uh and he talked about was it cathartic? Absolutely?
Speaker 1: And and uh I after doing that it was a
Speaker 1: very uh uh transcendent, freeing, sort of uh purifying experience
Speaker 1: h that I felt, you know, after after having done
Speaker 1: that song. Uh. And I should mention there are two
Speaker 1: songs on the album that I wrote, one of them
Speaker 1: being Lone Star Blues, which features Kebmo and uh uh
Speaker 1: the last one on the album end of the Line.
Speaker 1: That's one of my favorite tracks on there. Oh my gosh,
Speaker 1: it's an amazing song. Thank you Jordan's uh. One of
Speaker 1: the things that that I that I wanted to express
Speaker 1: that that I doubt most people are aware of. But
Speaker 1: one of the main differences between Johnny and I growing
Speaker 1: up was that he had that dream, He had that
Speaker 1: drive and the determination. As far back as I can remember,
Speaker 1: he wanted he was gonna be a star. He watched
Speaker 1: Bandstand and he read all of magazines. He had a
Speaker 1: huge record collection. He knew everybody that played on on
Speaker 1: every song, and he was Johnny Cool, Daddy Winner with
Speaker 1: the Coomfadur and the Shawnny and the Jammers, Johnny and
Speaker 1: the Jammers. And I was like the Cliot tip that
Speaker 1: played all the instruments. And I never wanted to be famous.
Speaker 1: I never dreamed of being famous. Uh. The point being
Speaker 1: that that Johnny had this this dream, and he having
Speaker 1: worked all his life to attain this, when he finally
Speaker 1: achieved it and had uh seemingly everything, recognition, fame, adoring fans. Uh.
Speaker 1: It wasn't what he expected. And I remember him saying, Neddar,
Speaker 1: I never thought it would be like this. It's like,
Speaker 1: I feel so isolated and alone. I don't know who
Speaker 1: to talk to and who to trust. It was like
Speaker 1: one of those be careful what you wish for, uh scenarios,
Speaker 1: and UH for me it was it was. Uh. He
Speaker 1: went through a difficult period and uh, you know that
Speaker 1: that disillusionment he resolved. Uh. I think after he went
Speaker 1: through the whole rock era with Johnny Winter, and he
Speaker 1: had basically he loved the blues, but and he and
Speaker 1: he's a great player, and he was always encouraged by
Speaker 1: management and the record companies to go more in our
Speaker 1: rock direction. Uh. Yet his heart was always with the blues.
Speaker 1: And after that period he rededicated himself to the blues.
Speaker 1: And I feel resolved that in in his mind. The
Speaker 1: last the last time I saw him, I remember having
Speaker 1: that specific feeling is he seemed at peace, as though, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, all all of that was behind him, and
Speaker 1: I think he came to appreciate everything that he had
Speaker 1: done throughout his career. But in the song Long Star Blues,
Speaker 1: I tried to write that in that particular voice, the
Speaker 1: way Johnny felt at that time. And uh, and when
Speaker 1: Kebmo decided to to do the song, which now here's
Speaker 1: another example of how, of course I didn't know keV
Speaker 1: Moo and Ross did the taj Moo album with Taj
Speaker 1: Mahal and so they had worked together, and uh he
Speaker 1: uh put us in touch and just set up a hello,
Speaker 1: get acquainted call and I and I told Kevo about
Speaker 1: the song and he said, yeah, that's uh let me
Speaker 1: let me hear it, you know. And all I had
Speaker 1: on it was a sort of a simulated slide guitar
Speaker 1: that I played on the keyboard and a vocal and
Speaker 1: Kebmo completely tore it down and started over and he
Speaker 1: put all all the instruments on. But when I heard
Speaker 1: him sing that, when he sang the courses, uh, it
Speaker 1: it like when I wrote it. It was just in
Speaker 1: in that voice, that voice of the young Johnny that
Speaker 1: was confused and disillusioned. But when Kevmo made it to
Speaker 1: duet and he had come in sound like the long
Speaker 1: Stome blues, it just introduced this note of compassion. He
Speaker 1: sort of became like the old wise blues man. That
Speaker 1: was like saying uh, that was empathizing and saying, yeah,
Speaker 1: you know it can it can get tough, but it's
Speaker 1: gonna be all right. And I thought that was just
Speaker 1: so beautiful. And then after I heard him every time,
Speaker 1: every time he came in, it was like the whole
Speaker 1: thing came to life. And I wasn't where I was
Speaker 1: born in Boumart, you know, in this Johnny style, and
Speaker 1: then that sounded just completely, uh, completely wrong, and so
Speaker 1: I redid my vocal in more of of that sort
Speaker 1: of uh, with more warmth and more of heartfelt storytelling thing.
Speaker 1: And you know, thank you keV Moo for for doing that.
Speaker 1: He completely transformed that song into something ready beautiful. So
Speaker 1: there you hadn't you mentioned Johnny's roots, like I love
Speaker 1: that you opened the album with Meantown blues. I just
Speaker 1: think it's such a perfect opener because it's such an
Speaker 1: amazing fusion of the Delta blues he loved. But then
Speaker 1: everything knew that he brought to it and brought to
Speaker 1: that style too. I thought that was such a cool
Speaker 1: jumping off point for the rest of the record. Thank you,
Speaker 1: thank you. You know we I had no idea how
Speaker 1: it was gonna come out. I selected a lot more
Speaker 1: songs than we ended up using. I didn't know for
Speaker 1: sure what was going to end up on and off,
Speaker 1: and uh, I didn't select songs with the idea of
Speaker 1: a particular artist in mind. I didn't want anybody to
Speaker 1: do a song that they didn't passionately believe in and
Speaker 1: want to sing. And I would usually give everybody at
Speaker 1: least four or five, you know, three or four or
Speaker 1: five choices. Uh. And many times like uh, when I asked, uh,
Speaker 1: Joe Bonamasa now uh, Uh Ross knew show really well
Speaker 1: and I played shows with Joe and we'd talked in passing.
Speaker 1: But I was reading a list of songs. And when
Speaker 1: I said self destructive blues, Wow, you're really gonna do
Speaker 1: self destructive? That was the first Johnny song I ever learned.
Speaker 1: And I played that with my band. That's the one
Speaker 1: I wanted, you know, that's the one I want to do.
Speaker 1: And uh, same thing with Warren Haynes. When I as
Speaker 1: soon as I said memory pain, you you can stop
Speaker 1: right there. That's that's the Johnny song for for me.
Speaker 1: And you know it was Uh. I didn't want to
Speaker 1: make a sound alike album, and I never I never
Speaker 1: asked anybody to, you know, to try to play like Johnny.
Speaker 1: I just wanted great artists doing songs that they really
Speaker 1: wanted to do as a tribute to Johnny. And I
Speaker 1: mentioned before like if I had done it just entirely
Speaker 1: as a straight ahead blues album, I don't think Johnny
Speaker 1: would have liked that. Uh. I think he would have said, well,
Speaker 1: you know, why are you suddenly, like, you know, trying
Speaker 1: to play everything in my exact style? That's not you. Uh.
Speaker 1: And uh, Like I think all all of these artists
Speaker 1: brought something special uh and really offered heartfelt performances that
Speaker 1: were honest. And I don't think you can you you know,
Speaker 1: you can't expect any more than that. But uh, I
Speaker 1: think Joe Bonamasa, out of all the guitarists, he seemed
Speaker 1: to channel Johnny in a way to get inside uh
Speaker 1: Johnny's style. Johnny had this sort of relentless uh excitement
Speaker 1: uh in his playing. I used to call him the
Speaker 1: cultrane of of blues row. Wow. Yeah, that's an incredible Yeah,
Speaker 1: I love that. What what that means? I'm familiar with Coltrane,
Speaker 1: but Coltrane could extend himself as a soloist and there
Speaker 1: was it was this uh unending inventive stream of consciousness. Uh,
Speaker 1: you know, one idea after another. Most people would play
Speaker 1: four or five courses. He could play twenty and uh,
Speaker 1: that's the way Johnny was when it came to rock
Speaker 1: and roll jamming like uh, and you know that was
Speaker 1: another thing. I thought, well, maybe I'm maybe I'm making
Speaker 1: too much of a musician's album because there there are
Speaker 1: a lot of long, extended solos and that can be
Speaker 1: self indulgent on on the part of musicians. Uh, but
Speaker 1: I just can't. I can't help it. I this to me,
Speaker 1: this album sounds like albums that were made in the
Speaker 1: seventies when there were groups like Cream and they those
Speaker 1: guys they came to play, We're gonna play and that's
Speaker 1: the way Johnny was. And it wouldn't it wouldn't. That's
Speaker 1: what Johnny did. And so of course there's gonna be
Speaker 1: a lot of that on there. But Joe, Uh, it
Speaker 1: was just amazing in that sense. On Meantown Blues, I
Speaker 1: didn't know if he could do the slide like that
Speaker 1: when I heard him play, When I heard him play
Speaker 1: Self Destructive Blues, I was just floored. I couldn't when
Speaker 1: he walked in and he had said, he, yeah, I
Speaker 1: knew the song and and it that one was just
Speaker 1: just easy. He just walked in and did it. And
Speaker 1: when he started to play, I just closed my eyes.
Speaker 1: It was just like Johnny was in the room. I
Speaker 1: couldn't believe it. And then when I when it came
Speaker 1: time to try to find somebody to do Mean Town,
Speaker 1: I always thought that was gonna be the hardest song
Speaker 1: to duplicate. And like you said, when I heard that song,
Speaker 1: I think, wow, what is this. It's sort of like
Speaker 1: this electric boogie, uh delta blues fusion thing. I've never
Speaker 1: heard anything like it before. Uh, nor do I think
Speaker 1: anyone else had. But uh, that sort of became the template.
Speaker 1: I loved Johnny's early writing because that was what he
Speaker 1: was so cool with, taking all of these old traditional
Speaker 1: blues riffs and then presenting them like in uh, in
Speaker 1: an electric kind of format. You know that Uh made
Speaker 1: it like a completely different kind of thing. Uh. And man, Joe,
Speaker 1: uh he told me, he said, when I asked him
Speaker 1: to do it, he said, well, that will be a challenge,
Speaker 1: and uh he he took a while. He said, you know,
Speaker 1: give me a couple of weeks. And and uh man
Speaker 1: once again we we that one was was not as
Speaker 1: uh as naturally easy. Uh. We had to work. I
Speaker 1: remember in the beginning, in the middle of that session
Speaker 1: he said, there is something about it. He actually stopped
Speaker 1: the session, went out and bought a thumb pick Johnny
Speaker 1: played with. He said, there's just doesn't have the weight.
Speaker 1: It doesn't have this Johnny, there's something missing and he
Speaker 1: said maybe maybe, and he had never played with a
Speaker 1: thumb pick before. Uh and uh. And by the time
Speaker 1: he finished that, it was just unbelievable, and we decided
Speaker 1: to I. I just think it epitomizes uh Johnny who
Speaker 1: he was at that particular time, and you know, in
Speaker 1: his early early career, and it's the person perfect fusion
Speaker 1: of that old traditional blues with with something uh completely different, uh,
Speaker 1: unique and very original on Johnny's far. No. I mean,
Speaker 1: I love that you included this absolutely rip and cover
Speaker 1: of Johnny be Good. I mean, you you got those
Speaker 1: Johnny Johnson riffs on the piano. I mean, it's just
Speaker 1: it's so great. I mean, and that really, I mean
Speaker 1: reading the liner notes, that sounds like that really was
Speaker 1: kind of your big break in a way when you
Speaker 1: were kids playing on the Johnny Melody Contest, Like that
Speaker 1: sounds like that song was a really pivolal moment for
Speaker 1: for both you and Johnny. It was. Indeed, that's why
Speaker 1: Johnny did it. And like if you think of that, well,
Speaker 1: it seems so obvious you think, well, Chuck Berry, Johnny
Speaker 1: be Good, it's a Johnny Winner tribute. Uh but uh,
Speaker 1: uh thanks for you've obviously done your homework and reading
Speaker 1: the line or note. But that song had a very
Speaker 1: special personal significance to us because as you were telling
Speaker 1: the story, uh, when we were kids and had our
Speaker 1: first band, Johnny and the Jammers, there was this local
Speaker 1: contest and Johnny be Good was the hottest song we knew.
Speaker 1: So we went on. Uh, we entered, we played it,
Speaker 1: we won, and first prize was getting to make your
Speaker 1: very own record. So uh you know there, Uh there
Speaker 1: was a studio called Golf Coast Recording there in Beaumont,
Speaker 1: and this guy named Jack Clement who he worked with
Speaker 1: Johnny Cash. He was a real a country guy. Uh
Speaker 1: and uh Roger Miller people like that, and uh, you know,
Speaker 1: had it not been for the song Johnny be Good, uh,
Speaker 1: who knows, but you know that's It's not only Johnny's story,
Speaker 1: it's the story of every young kid coming from humble
Speaker 1: beginnings who has that dream just like Johnny did and
Speaker 1: picks up a guitar, you know, dreaming of of making
Speaker 1: it one day. But yeah, that that had to be
Speaker 1: on there. Oh and I forgot to mention uh into
Speaker 1: the line. Uh, I don't like finished almost all, but
Speaker 1: finished the album when I realized that that there was
Speaker 1: really not uh and how all these great Johnny songs,
Speaker 1: but there was not really a single Edgar song on
Speaker 1: the album. And Uh, I just felt like I needed
Speaker 1: to add my voice in a And in every album
Speaker 1: I've ever made, there's always I think of album sort
Speaker 1: of as uh uh snapshots h of a period in
Speaker 1: your life. And there's always been a song on each
Speaker 1: album that I tried to, uh explain that had the most,
Speaker 1: the and deepest personal significance for me and whatever I
Speaker 1: was going through at that time. Uh. In many cases,
Speaker 1: like on Rebel Road, there was a song on the
Speaker 1: Further I Go, the Closer I Get to You that
Speaker 1: I wrote from my wife moneyue on on on White Trash,
Speaker 1: Dying to Live. Uh. I always try to put one
Speaker 1: on and I knew this. This album didn't have on
Speaker 1: and you know, sometimes you don't know uh why you
Speaker 1: write a song. But just the the title flashed and
Speaker 1: to my mind into the line and you know, it's bluesy.
Speaker 1: And as I started to write it, I uh, I
Speaker 1: began to realize, Wow, I'm I'm writing about the end
Speaker 1: of the Winter family line and that hadn't occurred to
Speaker 1: me when I thought of the title. Uh. But you
Speaker 1: know the last verse uh Uh songs may end or
Speaker 1: just fade away, but the music never dies. UH. That's
Speaker 1: that's the idea that I wanted to get across uh
Speaker 1: in the song uh and uh I wanted to make
Speaker 1: it uh. I hope all of you will excuse my
Speaker 1: doing more. Uh. I. I wanted to do it with
Speaker 1: just piano and strings. And I could have thought about
Speaker 1: doing it more like a blues like more like a
Speaker 1: gospel blue song with with Oregon and like maybe acquire there.
Speaker 1: There are a number of ways you could have done
Speaker 1: that song. But like I said, Johnny always used to
Speaker 1: encourage me. I think he liked it most when I
Speaker 1: was playing uh, when I was playing uh jazz and
Speaker 1: classical things that he felt worth close to my heart.
Speaker 1: So I, uh, I thought that's the way he would
Speaker 1: have wanted me to do the song. And I feel
Speaker 1: a lot worry about about the whole album. It's not
Speaker 1: the album Johnny would have done, but I think it's
Speaker 1: the album that he would want me to do for him.
Speaker 1: That's his brother, that and that's what I tried. That's
Speaker 1: what it's just purely an expression of love and admiration
Speaker 1: from my brother Johnny, who I've always looked up to
Speaker 1: and always would There was um an interview you gave
Speaker 1: recently where you said, I'm paraphrasing, but something with the
Speaker 1: effect of, um, if it wasn't for Johnny, I would
Speaker 1: have been a struggling jazz musician or maybe an engineer.
Speaker 1: What was it that the Johnny taught you about songwriting?
Speaker 1: And there still lessons that he taught you about writing
Speaker 1: a song that you still hold dear, that you you
Speaker 1: know whenever you sit down to write, they still are
Speaker 1: at the front of your mind. Um. Well he opened
Speaker 1: that door for me in the uh. My first album,
Speaker 1: the Entrance Album, was the closest Johnny and I ever
Speaker 1: came to a collaboration, and we had just done Woodstock,
Speaker 1: which changed my life completely changed my ideas about music. Uh.
Speaker 1: That's another story. But Uh, to answer the question that
Speaker 1: that you uh that you just put before me, Uh,
Speaker 1: I thought of myself more uh as a musician then uh.
Speaker 1: Uh I thought of myself as a serious musician. Thankfully,
Speaker 1: I've gotten over that to some degree. But but like
Speaker 1: I said, I love jazz and classical and stuff that
Speaker 1: I considered serious music. And uh and uh, whereas Johnny
Speaker 1: wanted to be a star, I just always wanted to
Speaker 1: be a better musician. And uh. Whereas Johnny was outgoing,
Speaker 1: uh I was. He was the extrovert, and I was
Speaker 1: the introvert. I sort of withdrew into my own private
Speaker 1: world of music. And uh. Therefore, when I did the
Speaker 1: first album, I didn't think I was a songwriter. I
Speaker 1: had all of these ideas, uh, and I didn't really
Speaker 1: ever tried to write lyrics, and so uh Johnny wrote
Speaker 1: a lot of of the lyrics, and uh I started
Speaker 1: to change and modify some of the things, but he
Speaker 1: wrote things like that you would never expect Johnny uh
Speaker 1: to write like when the sun changes the blue into
Speaker 1: gray and New York acts just the way that l
Speaker 1: A does. People change saying you're different and strange sufficient
Speaker 1: enough you remain while your friends just keep putting you down,
Speaker 1: wondering why they keep hanging around about you without you.
Speaker 1: And I came up with now as the time a
Speaker 1: new day is just beginning. But it was like trying
Speaker 1: to modify a lot of the lyrics that he wrote
Speaker 1: was how I learned to write, and even uh began
Speaker 1: to have the feeling that uh uh it actually caused
Speaker 1: me to develop an interest in writing. Now. I love
Speaker 1: writing lyrics and uh, I just loved the whole aspect
Speaker 1: of of writing. It's just one of the most rewarding
Speaker 1: things that that that h that you can do. And
Speaker 1: as you mentioned it, it's very cathartic. But I'm uh
Speaker 1: write a lot of poetry now, uh, I have enough
Speaker 1: poetry for a book. I have a whole series of
Speaker 1: short stories that occur in this uh, this mythical realm
Speaker 1: called the shadow Lands. Uh. And I just love writing
Speaker 1: and I'm doing it all the time. And uh I
Speaker 1: think Johnny by just a simple example of doing it.
Speaker 1: I was amazed because he had never really thought much
Speaker 1: or or you know, I've never seen him devote a
Speaker 1: lot of attention to writing, and he just seemed naturally
Speaker 1: to be able to do it, and when we started
Speaker 1: doing it together, that's that's how the whole thing began.
Speaker 1: So I learned it of from John. This is a
Speaker 1: question that's gonna betray the fact that I've never written
Speaker 1: a song in my life. Even though I play music,
Speaker 1: I've never been able to to write. And whenever i'm
Speaker 1: I'm lucky enough to speak with people who are blessed
Speaker 1: with that ability to write music, I'm always so curious
Speaker 1: what compels them to do it. Is it a a
Speaker 1: desire to connect with other people or is it to
Speaker 1: just express something and almost expel it from out of you,
Speaker 1: almost like an exorcism. And if you were on a
Speaker 1: desert island somewhere, you'd be writing just as much because
Speaker 1: it's all about just getting it out of you. Or
Speaker 1: is it a combination of both, Yeah, it is, it
Speaker 1: is all of that. Uh. I tend to write most
Speaker 1: of myne use it in that sort of alpha state,
Speaker 1: either just drifting off to sleep or when I'm just
Speaker 1: coming back into awareness. Uh in the morning, I dream
Speaker 1: a lot of songs. Uh, and I think that uh
Speaker 1: for me, Uh, it's hard to it's hard to try
Speaker 1: to write. It's not an unnatural people. Like just like
Speaker 1: you said, if you've never felt like you ought to
Speaker 1: just sit down and write a song some or just
Speaker 1: write a write a poem, all write a story, alright, anything,
Speaker 1: and you'll then you'll understand exactly what it is. But
Speaker 1: if you just clear your mind, it's sort of like
Speaker 1: it's sort of like meditation. Uh. You can't put some
Speaker 1: if there's something else already there. Uh, it's it's hard
Speaker 1: to put some thing, uh to display something that is
Speaker 1: already there. But uh, if you just relax your mind
Speaker 1: and uh and try to clear it, then thoughts will
Speaker 1: come into it. And all you have to do is
Speaker 1: just put those down, whatever they may be. And the
Speaker 1: whole trick to that is you're immediately tempted to start
Speaker 1: uh judging whatever it is that comes up, and then
Speaker 1: all is it. I don't think that's good, that's not
Speaker 1: good enough for this, But just go ahead and go
Speaker 1: ahead and do it anyway. Uh, it's it. It's not
Speaker 1: really a magical thing. Like if you stop and think
Speaker 1: about it, we're having a conversation right now. You are
Speaker 1: creatively engaged. You don't know what you're going to say,
Speaker 1: and and I don't know what I'm gonna say in
Speaker 1: response to what you say. We're having a conversation, and
Speaker 1: that's all. That's really all writing. It's not a mysterious
Speaker 1: or a magical thing. It's really easy. It's being present.
Speaker 1: It sounds like that sounds like a big, big part
Speaker 1: of it, just being present in the moment and seeing
Speaker 1: whatever you respond to. Yeah, that's that's true. Oh well,
Speaker 1: thank you for that. That is I will you have
Speaker 1: my word that I will. I will try to put
Speaker 1: that to good Jews. Oh man, I I could. I
Speaker 1: could speak to you all day. I don't want to
Speaker 1: take up too much more of your time, but I
Speaker 1: I might just to end on. I have a question
Speaker 1: that that I don't know the answer to. So if
Speaker 1: I don't know the answer to it, I probably have
Speaker 1: no right to really ask it. But I'd be interested
Speaker 1: to hear what you say anyway. Um, what is it
Speaker 1: about music that makes it such a powerful medium to
Speaker 1: transmit emotion? You know, we we we found even in
Speaker 1: in times and when we were living in caves trying
Speaker 1: to survive as a species, we still find ancient remains
Speaker 1: of ancient primitive instruments. So clearly this was a priority
Speaker 1: even when we were just struggling to feed ourselves and live.
Speaker 1: And it's I think that's one of the great mysteries
Speaker 1: of humanity. We've had music for so many thousands of years,
Speaker 1: and I don't know why, and I don't know what
Speaker 1: it is about about music that that touches people in
Speaker 1: such a special way. And I was wondering what your
Speaker 1: thoughts are on that. Uh, that's a great question. Um,
Speaker 1: I'll start uh in another interview. Uh, someone asked me
Speaker 1: another question which relates to to this one, in a why.
Speaker 1: They asked me, what is your first memory of music?
Speaker 1: And I thought, wow, that's a good question. What what
Speaker 1: is that? When I had to cast my mind back
Speaker 1: and try to when it was the first time I
Speaker 1: remember music, and DNI fine and what I came up
Speaker 1: with it took it took a while, but this was
Speaker 1: before I could talk, because there weren't any words connected
Speaker 1: with it. But I was safe and warm and comfortable,
Speaker 1: and I was nettled in my mother's lap, and I
Speaker 1: remember just hearing this beautiful sensation just uh grabbing around
Speaker 1: me and flowing all through me and around me, and
Speaker 1: I didn't know what it was. I didn't uh have
Speaker 1: a word for it. Uh. Now I know that it
Speaker 1: was music, but uh, she was playing the piano, and
Speaker 1: I said, I've got to get to that sound. What
Speaker 1: And I was able to sort of pick up between
Speaker 1: her arms over the edge of the keyboard, and I
Speaker 1: could see these hands making these beautiful, graceful movement. And
Speaker 1: then as I I was just enthralled in this experience,
Speaker 1: and I said, oh, there's those the hands. There's some
Speaker 1: correlation between those hands and this sensation they they're making
Speaker 1: this sound. And it was the most uh uh profound. Uh.
Speaker 1: It's one of my first not only my first memory
Speaker 1: of music, but one of my first memories of any
Speaker 1: any kind that I and I think that uh, since
Speaker 1: that time, I've asked a lot of people that question,
Speaker 1: and most people it's like something mechanical, like a song
Speaker 1: they heard on the radio or a record or something.
Speaker 1: And for me, I think that that explains so much
Speaker 1: of my feelings about music. Our whole family was musical.
Speaker 1: My my dad uh played uh guitar and band Joe
Speaker 1: and he played alto sax in its wing band in
Speaker 1: his youth, and he sang in the choir and he
Speaker 1: had a barbershop quartet that would come over to the
Speaker 1: house and sang, and my mother uh sang and played
Speaker 1: beautiful piano. Everybody in our family was musical. But uh,
Speaker 1: to finally get to the your question about what is it?
Speaker 1: What is it? I think essentially that that life is
Speaker 1: a spiritual quest. And I think that there is uh
Speaker 1: uh a spiritual connection with music, at least for me.
Speaker 1: And it's really it's it's very simple. It's the reason
Speaker 1: music is as powerful as it is as uh, because
Speaker 1: you lose your sense of self within something beyond yourself
Speaker 1: when you sit down to play music or when you're
Speaker 1: listening to a great performance of music. And it's the
Speaker 1: same thing uh as a sports person being in the zone.
Speaker 1: You're uh, you're entirely beyond yourself or like losing yourself
Speaker 1: in a great book. Uh. For that moment in time,
Speaker 1: all your cares and troubles and the things that uh
Speaker 1: you can go along with every day living are forgotten
Speaker 1: and uh you're transported. Uh. And I think that's I
Speaker 1: think that's why people, that's why I love to play music,
Speaker 1: is because I love that feeling of of release uh
Speaker 1: and and freedom that that I get uh And and
Speaker 1: it's on both sides either either making it or listening
Speaker 1: to it. Uh, and I I don't I don't think
Speaker 1: I can explain it any any better than in those words.
Speaker 1: So I think that is I think maybe the most
Speaker 1: beautiful description of music I could could possibly conceive of
Speaker 1: its suspended in something divine. I think that is a
Speaker 1: perfect thank you. Thank you for that, Edgar. Thank you
Speaker 1: so much for your time today, your your thoughtful answers,
Speaker 1: and most importantly, thank you for your music. It's been
Speaker 1: such a joy speaking to you. It's such an honor.
Speaker 1: I am such a fan of your work. Thank you
Speaker 1: so much. You're so very welcome Jordan's And just in closing,
Speaker 1: I'd like to take this opportunity to thank all of
Speaker 1: our fans that have followed uh my career as well
Speaker 1: as that of my brother Johnny throughout all of these years. Uh,
Speaker 1: we could not have done it without you, and uh
Speaker 1: we love you all. And UH it's meant the world
Speaker 1: to us two be able to do what we most
Speaker 1: love and see you all out there rocking and having
Speaker 1: a great time. So UH, you know, I tried to
Speaker 1: make this album not only attribute to Johnny, but attribute
Speaker 1: to the to the blues and to guitar. Try to
Speaker 1: make a great guitar album. So you know, if you
Speaker 1: if you love the blues or if you just love guitar,
Speaker 1: and especially if you love Johnny, you're gonna love brother Johnny.
Speaker 1: So uh, we love you all and get ready to
Speaker 1: rock and roll. We hope you enjoyed this episode of
Speaker 1: Inside the Studio, a production of I Heart Radio. For
Speaker 1: more episodes of Inside the Studio or other fantastic shows,
Speaker 1: check out the I heart Radio app Apple podcast four
Speaker 1: ofver you listen to your favorite party, Yes,