Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, home of the
Speaker 1: modern whitetail hunter and now your host, Mark Kenyon. Welcome
Speaker 1: to the Wire to Hunt podcast, which is brought to
Speaker 1: you by First Light. I'm your host Tony Peterson, and
Speaker 1: today I'm speaking to the one and only Zach Farrenbaud
Speaker 1: from the hunting public. All right, folks, welcome to the
Speaker 1: Wire to Hunt podcast, which is brought to you by
Speaker 1: First Late you have probably figured out that this is
Speaker 1: not the voice of Mark Kenyon. Marc is actually on
Speaker 1: his ninth vacation of the year this week, so I
Speaker 1: hope he enjoys himself. He left me a voicemail last
Speaker 1: week and mentioned that he and Spencer were headed to
Speaker 1: Florida to collect seashells and shark's teeth on the beach.
Speaker 1: He said, so they could put them on display in
Speaker 1: shadow boxes they bought at hobby lobby or something. I
Speaker 1: don't know. I don't know, but I do hope those
Speaker 1: boys find some cool stuff on the beach, I guess,
Speaker 1: and that they use plenty of sunscreen. Today. I'm keeping
Speaker 1: this going alive and well with the one and only
Speaker 1: Zach Ferrenbaugh. Zach is most well known for killing big
Speaker 1: Bucks on public land from the ground, but we're not
Speaker 1: gonna get into that too much on this show. Instead,
Speaker 1: we actually dive into Zach's thoughts on the hunting media
Speaker 1: trail cameras, what people think about big Bucks, and really
Speaker 1: why his contrarian mindset helps him overcome some of the
Speaker 1: most difficult deer in the country. This episode is just
Speaker 1: fun from start to finish. I think you're gonna love it.
Speaker 1: Zach Farrenboll, How the hell are you, buddy doing well? Man?
Speaker 1: Just well? I don't know. I say I'm doing well.
Speaker 1: I feel like I'm a little stressed down preseason stuff,
Speaker 1: but that happens every year. To me, it's like I
Speaker 1: should be I should expect it more than what I do.
Speaker 1: Depend Every year I'm like, oh damn, I got a
Speaker 1: lot of stuff. I gotta get done, editing stuff, I
Speaker 1: gotta plan out the season, and just all that stuff
Speaker 1: is gets to my gets to where it's just running
Speaker 1: through my head all day. Yeah, dude. My my wife
Speaker 1: asked me the other day, She's like, you're really spun
Speaker 1: up lately. And I'm like, every year you get to
Speaker 1: you get to this certain point in the year and
Speaker 1: it's like I haven't shot enough, I haven't scouted enough.
Speaker 1: I you know, I do this tag, but I didn't
Speaker 1: draw this tag or where am I going in this
Speaker 1: week in October? And I know it's dumb stuff to
Speaker 1: bitch about. Yeah, I know it's first world problems, but
Speaker 1: it like I become just like you, like I become
Speaker 1: this kind of like a little ball of anxiety. Is that?
Speaker 1: And then once you get into season, it's just sort
Speaker 1: of like the flow. It's so much easier. One season
Speaker 1: starts to go with the flow and you're just like
Speaker 1: not worried. And I think I think part of that
Speaker 1: is just the anticipation in a way is so extreme
Speaker 1: that it creates stress. Like I'm ready to do it
Speaker 1: because it's so fun and I know it's going to
Speaker 1: be fun once it's here. But I just continue to
Speaker 1: get more and more stressed. And at the end of
Speaker 1: the day, it doesn't matter at all. It'll work itself out.
Speaker 1: It always does. Are you do You do you still
Speaker 1: love it? Like the filming, Yeah, I definitely do. The
Speaker 1: only thing that I would say I was telling you
Speaker 1: a little bit before is just the editing can be
Speaker 1: a little extreme at times, and there's waves of it
Speaker 1: that are worse than others. So again I'm complaining. And
Speaker 1: it's always been that way though for me, where it's
Speaker 1: like I always want to be out there hunting or filming.
Speaker 1: I don't like they're being a season open and sitting
Speaker 1: at home. And if I'm sitting at home, I want
Speaker 1: to hang out with my girlfriend or my friends or whatever,
Speaker 1: you like, take a break, not not sit at the
Speaker 1: editor for you know, twenty four hours straight. And that's
Speaker 1: that's a dirty little secret about when you make content,
Speaker 1: Like the editing video sucks so much. Like there's parts
Speaker 1: of it that I do like, and there's time times
Speaker 1: where I'm really proud of certain projects, but there's also stuff,
Speaker 1: like in the middle of the season that I feel
Speaker 1: like I'm just getting through it, just to get through it,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. Yeah, there's a there's a editing.
Speaker 1: That stuff is a heavier lift than people probably assume.
Speaker 1: And you know, I'm pretty good buddies with Tom Miranda,
Speaker 1: and you know, he's produced a billion different TV shows,
Speaker 1: and that dude is up at three o'clock in the
Speaker 1: morning every day editing and until like the normal world
Speaker 1: wakes up, and that's his you know, And and when
Speaker 1: you talk to him about it, you know he's been
Speaker 1: all over the world and killed everything that he can,
Speaker 1: and you know, people think that that's like the bulk
Speaker 1: of his job, and he spends more time sitting in
Speaker 1: the editing sweet in his house than anything else, because
Speaker 1: it's just if you want a good product, like there's
Speaker 1: no it's just like writing a book, Like writing a
Speaker 1: rough draft of a book. You know, if you're a writer,
Speaker 1: it's not that bad. Like it's a couple of months
Speaker 1: and you're like, okay, sweet, and then you get into
Speaker 1: editing process and you're like, God, just sucks so much. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's just it's I think that's the part about it.
Speaker 1: It's it's so repetitive, like watching it the first time.
Speaker 1: I always explained it's like watching aime film. Like if
Speaker 1: you played any like sports, there's always the opportunity to
Speaker 1: watch game film to see what you did, what your
Speaker 1: opponents doing, how to adjust for the future. It's the
Speaker 1: same thing in hunting. When you sit there and you
Speaker 1: watch the mistakes that you made, you can just really
Speaker 1: break down every tiny little move and it's really fun
Speaker 1: when you do it, that first initial rough cut. But
Speaker 1: then when it starts to get to the point where
Speaker 1: you're the only one looking at the rough cut, then
Speaker 1: the second cut, then the third cut needs to continue
Speaker 1: over and over and over again. That's when it starts
Speaker 1: to get exhausting. Yeah, it's a it's a tedious process
Speaker 1: that that that idea of you know, paying attention to
Speaker 1: your mistakes and you know, kind of reviewing a hunt.
Speaker 1: I mean that that's one of the cool things about
Speaker 1: filming is you get to see when you missed and
Speaker 1: what you know, Like in your head, you go, oh,
Speaker 1: the dear was doing this, and then you get to
Speaker 1: watch it and you go, no, I remember this wrong,
Speaker 1: like and I think it's such a good lesson there,
Speaker 1: especially for encounters, because you're like, oh, you know, like
Speaker 1: this this only lasted thirty seconds and it was a
Speaker 1: five minute encounter vice versa, or I must have been
Speaker 1: drawn on that deer for two minutes, and then you
Speaker 1: watch it and you were like, yeah, it was twelve seconds, bro.
Speaker 1: Like in your head you spun out and you were
Speaker 1: you were like, I gotta make this ship happen now,
Speaker 1: and then you watch it play out how it actually
Speaker 1: happened and not how you're worked up buck Fever brain
Speaker 1: took it. It's totally different. So many yeah, yeah, I
Speaker 1: just always crack up. But the things that I'm able
Speaker 1: to pick up going back through it. And it's funny too,
Speaker 1: because you know, my friends that aren't doing it, for example,
Speaker 1: like my friend Ben, who I spent a bunch of
Speaker 1: time hunting with and he lives in Ohio. It'll be like,
Speaker 1: you know, a week after and like he's already kind
Speaker 1: of gone back to work and he's doing you know,
Speaker 1: doing other life things at that point, and I'm still
Speaker 1: following him, like, Okay, do you remember, you know, at
Speaker 1: nine in the morning when we went up over that
Speaker 1: ridge and we solve this. I think the reason that
Speaker 1: we saw that is this, this and this, And it's
Speaker 1: just because I'm sitting there watching it over and over
Speaker 1: again and it's just hilarious. But what you learned, So
Speaker 1: there's pros and cons to it, for sure, There are,
Speaker 1: for sure. And I think the bigger lesson there is
Speaker 1: to really just face all your screw ups. And yeah, well,
Speaker 1: I mean but you know when you when you look
Speaker 1: at you know, and this happens to you all the time,
Speaker 1: and I know it does. Where you you do a show,
Speaker 1: you're at the Deer Classic or something. Everybody tells you
Speaker 1: they're hunting story, and you know, they want to tell
Speaker 1: you about the big one they got, and they want
Speaker 1: to tell you about the big one they almost got.
Speaker 1: And you hear aside from here and poaching stories all
Speaker 1: the time, which blows my mind. You hear you know,
Speaker 1: the my arrowdeflectory, dumped the string or I used the
Speaker 1: wrong pen or like some excuse all the time. And
Speaker 1: you know, like, I'm not a therapist, right, I'm an
Speaker 1: idiot who writes scroll hunting articles. But like I listen
Speaker 1: to that and I go, I think you'd be better
Speaker 1: off being honest about this and just going because that's
Speaker 1: you know, like when you think about the stuff that
Speaker 1: stings like that of mistakes you made that makes you
Speaker 1: not want to make them again. Like failure is a
Speaker 1: powerful motivator. And if you kind of like brush it
Speaker 1: aside or dismiss it as like an excuse, like like oh,
Speaker 1: you know this was out of my control, that it
Speaker 1: doesn't take you anywhere, you know. But if you're like, man,
Speaker 1: I that I should have had that buck dead and
Speaker 1: I didn't because I made a dumb decision. Man used
Speaker 1: that ship because it's gonna work for you in the future. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And I think, you know, while you learned something from
Speaker 1: every experience, good or bad. I've always said in hunting especially,
Speaker 1: you learn best from your heart failure. And it's funny,
Speaker 1: you know, nobody wants to fail, but somebody that consistently
Speaker 1: fails is going to learn things really fast. And like
Speaker 1: it's almost like it's almost like, in a way you
Speaker 1: want to have you know, probably throughout the season major
Speaker 1: screw ups and then about thirties percent of you know
Speaker 1: what I mean of success or that would be ideal.
Speaker 1: But it's like you just have to take those mistakes
Speaker 1: and yet break them down and look at you know,
Speaker 1: not just mistakes too, is in the in the moment
Speaker 1: mistakes but okay, did we really need to back out
Speaker 1: of that spot yet? Or should we have kept going
Speaker 1: and look for you know, more signed And it's like
Speaker 1: sometimes yes, sometimes no. Sometimes you know, you you leave
Speaker 1: the area when you shouldn't have. Maybe sometimes you should have.
Speaker 1: Just Like one thing that I always struggle with is
Speaker 1: or I've been struggling with specifically, is I feel like
Speaker 1: I know in some some areas I've been hunting hilly
Speaker 1: terrain I keep thinking, like I know where these deer are,
Speaker 1: but I keep spooking them and why am I doing that?
Speaker 1: And it's like I can keep lying to myself and
Speaker 1: making some excuse, but it's like, Okay, but what am
Speaker 1: I doing wrong? Why do I keep doing this? You know?
Speaker 1: And I think I think, I think I've come up
Speaker 1: with a few answers on that, but you're gonna have
Speaker 1: to test it this year to see. But you know,
Speaker 1: it's just yeah, you gotta just be honest with yourself
Speaker 1: and like really break that down and to be to
Speaker 1: be honest. That's pretty fun to me. I really like
Speaker 1: going back and looking at all those things that I
Speaker 1: questioned about what we were doing or mistakes and definitely
Speaker 1: make you learn. It's it's a nice place to be
Speaker 1: in where even when you make a major mistake, it
Speaker 1: doesn't like ruin your season where you're just like, okay,
Speaker 1: this you know this is this was always coming like
Speaker 1: at some point this was gonna hit me again and
Speaker 1: I was gonna do this. So on that note, what's
Speaker 1: what's the one that haunts you the most? Which which
Speaker 1: big Buck encountered? Can you think back to that brings
Speaker 1: a little tier to your eye and you're like that one,
Speaker 1: I just blew it. There's two. There's two that were
Speaker 1: kind of like right in the same window. So I
Speaker 1: was in Ohio in two thousand twenty. It's spent quite
Speaker 1: a bit of time trying to find a hot spot
Speaker 1: during the rut. Like my style is kind of just
Speaker 1: cruised around, find a bunch of sign and start hanging
Speaker 1: out area more in a nutshell. And finally found it.
Speaker 1: And the morning before we had seen at least man
Speaker 1: and this is abnormal compared to the other days that
Speaker 1: we have been hunting. We saw like five bucks do
Speaker 1: the same thing, essentially like cutting across this. We went
Speaker 1: there and set up. The next morning, we weren't seeing anything.
Speaker 1: It was going pretty slow and look down below us
Speaker 1: on the bench and a buck was cruising that bench
Speaker 1: parallel to the ridge top that we were right on
Speaker 1: the top of, and uh tried granting at him. He
Speaker 1: didn't do anything. He just never really paid any attention
Speaker 1: to that. I don't know if he couldn't hear it
Speaker 1: or you know how that is where you're like, he's ship.
Speaker 1: Seems like he should have been out to hear it,
Speaker 1: but you don't really know. And he ended up making
Speaker 1: it past us, and we're sitting there contemplating, like should
Speaker 1: we chase this thing, which is my initial reaction always
Speaker 1: like just go for him. But side note, it had
Speaker 1: been seventy that whole week or ten days issue that
Speaker 1: I was hunting there. It was seventy plus degrees, no
Speaker 1: wind at all, and just sunny and just beating down
Speaker 1: dead calm, toughest woods conditions I've hunted in up to
Speaker 1: this point, where there was no break and it didn't
Speaker 1: matter if it was first light or an hour, you know,
Speaker 1: hour after last light. Those leaves are loud and cuntry
Speaker 1: for every single day we were there, so you know,
Speaker 1: again my initial reaction is we'll just chase this, but
Speaker 1: we'll catch heap with him. Well, pretty much right away
Speaker 1: it was like that's never gonna work because while he
Speaker 1: didn't hear our gup call, he's gonna hear you know,
Speaker 1: a couple of fools walking across these leaves. And we
Speaker 1: ended up deciding we're gonna rattle because okay, take the
Speaker 1: advantage that they have a sound and kind of used
Speaker 1: against them, and we just made a ton of noise,
Speaker 1: Like a ton of noise. That's something I really like
Speaker 1: doing since I started ground time things really and then
Speaker 1: the calling, and how much more realistic you can make
Speaker 1: a sequence because you can add that ground noise. You
Speaker 1: can basically be a deer. As long as they can't
Speaker 1: see you, you can make all the same sounds they do.
Speaker 1: So we just started making a buck fight, and me
Speaker 1: and Keith were up on this ridge just rolling around rattling. Well,
Speaker 1: when I had saw that buck, I put my bow
Speaker 1: down and it was behind the way I was facing rattling,
Speaker 1: and I rattled too long. And there's two there's two
Speaker 1: mistakes made. One I should have stopped the sequence earlier
Speaker 1: and listened, and two I should have not had the
Speaker 1: tambo behind me. So I got the bow behind me,
Speaker 1: and I'm rattling too long. Stop rattling. And just as
Speaker 1: I stopped, I looked at my right and he's already
Speaker 1: at like ten yards like mouth open, has sprinted to us.
Speaker 1: And I stopped. He stops and he looks up there.
Speaker 1: He didn't see us, because you know, you're blind, and
Speaker 1: he looks around, he doesn't see anything, and he immediately
Speaker 1: just takes off run and right at us. So I
Speaker 1: don't even have time to turn in my setup. I
Speaker 1: had the cover to do it, but he was on
Speaker 1: us in two seconds. And he was at like literally
Speaker 1: to five yards broadside and he's standing there looking at
Speaker 1: us like what the hell, and he blows and jumped down.
Speaker 1: He actually ran all the way around us. I was
Speaker 1: drawn on him. I finally got my boat, got drawn
Speaker 1: and then he's like straight behind me, but I can't
Speaker 1: point my bow that way because that's right where Keith
Speaker 1: is And the spot was so perfect. It's it's a
Speaker 1: rare spot where we were on a ridge. It was
Speaker 1: really steep and the wind was just sailing away and
Speaker 1: he just never could smell us, so like he's doing
Speaker 1: this circle around us and I it was just it
Speaker 1: was all messed up as as soon as my bow
Speaker 1: was behind me. And that's someone that haunts me because
Speaker 1: it's like, you want to talk about it, gimme. But
Speaker 1: then so the reason I kind of lump it into
Speaker 1: two is because something very similar than happened. It is
Speaker 1: a little bit shorter story, but we gave it a day,
Speaker 1: took a breather, and kind of did our what we
Speaker 1: call the reset day. We're kind of get some sleep,
Speaker 1: get some work done, just reorganized and kind of clear
Speaker 1: your brain because that, I mean, let's be honest, set
Speaker 1: sucked and we ended up going back and we were
Speaker 1: up on that same ridge, but I guess further down
Speaker 1: the ridge and it seems like we should be seeing stuff,
Speaker 1: but then it was hot and we won't seeing anything,
Speaker 1: and we're like, you know what, let's move down close
Speaker 1: to where there's some water. It's a little bit cooler
Speaker 1: down there. This is a great decision because as soon
Speaker 1: as we got down there, we got in this setup
Speaker 1: that was like loaded with signed first time we had
Speaker 1: been in that exact spot. It's like, this is gonna
Speaker 1: be sweet. And in my head, un visualized as buff
Speaker 1: walking right in front of us, you know, tended twenty
Speaker 1: yards perfect, there's all kinds of rubs going just exactly
Speaker 1: cross wind to us. Perfect and about one o'clock. This
Speaker 1: is November tenth, I think one o'clock just heard. You
Speaker 1: don't hear it very often, but you do. Get ready.
Speaker 1: It's just this crazy grunt. I've really only ever heard
Speaker 1: it a couple of times, and when I do, it's
Speaker 1: been a big sum bit, you know, And he just
Speaker 1: goes and they're like whoa, like not even normal, And
Speaker 1: I can tell it's about a hundred hundred fifty yards
Speaker 1: kind of off to our left, down the same creek
Speaker 1: drainage that we're in, and I wait, keeps kind of
Speaker 1: dozing off. I'm like, dude, but just granted, like real loud,
Speaker 1: something's going on. And uh, I don't know, maybe ten
Speaker 1: more minutes when by Any did it again, same spot,
Speaker 1: and within like five minutes, it was just like you
Speaker 1: could hear that classic buck just plowing through the woods.
Speaker 1: And here's this even bigger buck than the couple of
Speaker 1: days before, with the bow behind us, and he's coming
Speaker 1: right down the trail. He's coming straight towards where I
Speaker 1: think he's gonna come and turn broadside and go right
Speaker 1: past us. And in my head, it's exactly what he's
Speaker 1: gonna do, getting ready to draw, getting ready to draw,
Speaker 1: when it just never stops and just keeps coming and
Speaker 1: the ends up at like five yards and I just
Speaker 1: never had clear there was nothing but dead branches between
Speaker 1: me and him. But I just never put the effort
Speaker 1: into clearing that spot off because I haven't never been
Speaker 1: in that exact spot. I didn't know that trail was
Speaker 1: as heavily used as it was until he went down
Speaker 1: it and uh yeah, that one got to buy. Look
Speaker 1: it was the same deal, like what is that? And
Speaker 1: then boom he's gone. You know, had I just had
Speaker 1: even the slightest little opening at five yards, I was
Speaker 1: shot him no matter what the angle was, like he
Speaker 1: was slightly quartering too, but I mean he was seriously
Speaker 1: so damn close that those two hurt because they were
Speaker 1: just back to back and then it was like I
Speaker 1: had to leieve and and uh kind of and I
Speaker 1: ended up shooting one in gun season there a couple
Speaker 1: of a couple of weeks later with my friend Ben.
Speaker 1: That was an awesome hunt and I would have never
Speaker 1: experienced that had I shot those two bucks. So that's
Speaker 1: the positive in the story. But in the moment, those
Speaker 1: ones were like what are you doing? Like just not
Speaker 1: just not totally prepared. The boat behind me is the
Speaker 1: one that's just like, yeah, that's foolish, because I well,
Speaker 1: I know, I think a lot of pride of being
Speaker 1: like prepared at all times. It was not at all,
Speaker 1: so whatever, But those are the ones that hunt you, right,
Speaker 1: you know. I mean if it's a situation where he
Speaker 1: comes in hot and he might catch your wind and
Speaker 1: it's you know, unfolds fast and it doesn't break your
Speaker 1: way here like well, okay, but when it's like he's
Speaker 1: dead to rights and you make some dumb decision and
Speaker 1: it costs you, that's that hurts so much. You said
Speaker 1: something there before we get into the where I really
Speaker 1: want to go with this, you said something that's important.
Speaker 1: When you're talking about, you know, being on the ground
Speaker 1: and calling that buck and you just just reading the
Speaker 1: conditions and go and listen, you know, the way I
Speaker 1: want a hunt him ain't gonna work. We're not. You're
Speaker 1: never gonna sneak up on a deer like that. And
Speaker 1: so you go the opposite direction and and make some noise.
Speaker 1: And I know, people, you know that this is not
Speaker 1: a new thing like this has been around a while
Speaker 1: where people are like, listen, if you're gonna rattle, I
Speaker 1: make it sounds like there's two bucks fighting, And I
Speaker 1: think I think a lot of times people don't, like
Speaker 1: you don't see buck fights that often. When you do,
Speaker 1: holy sh it, it's like, you know, I'll never forget
Speaker 1: I had. I was on the river out in North
Speaker 1: Dakota one time and I had two bucks coming behind
Speaker 1: me and fight in the river, and I think it's
Speaker 1: the most noise I've ever heard animals make in the wild,
Speaker 1: other than maybe like l coming down the mountainside or
Speaker 1: something when they come in hot, like it's like a
Speaker 1: boulder rolling down. But those those bucks, they're the noise
Speaker 1: they made fighting in that shallow river and all those
Speaker 1: rocks clanking and they fought. I was like, this is
Speaker 1: like so different than every calling sequence. You know what
Speaker 1: I mean. And you know I mean, if you're a
Speaker 1: deer and you live out there all night long with
Speaker 1: all those other deer, when you hear buck fights, you
Speaker 1: hear buck fights. You don't hear like tink tink tink
Speaker 1: like little or that plastic e like sound with no
Speaker 1: ground noise. It's like, no wonder that doesn't work. And
Speaker 1: I mean that's not to put anybody at fault. It's
Speaker 1: just because, like you said, it is hard to expeare
Speaker 1: arians butt fights, and until you do, you don't really
Speaker 1: even understand at all how crazy it is. It is crazy.
Speaker 1: I had I had a moment. Man. This was like
Speaker 1: two thousand and like two or something, and I was
Speaker 1: hunting in Minnesota for the rut, and I remember I
Speaker 1: hung the stand in the dark in this place I
Speaker 1: want to be, this ridge top and you know, then
Speaker 1: I was like hunting any buck and I got set up,
Speaker 1: you know, I got light out, and I was like,
Speaker 1: I gotta I had a bunch of ship in front
Speaker 1: of me that I had to get rid of because
Speaker 1: I'm like if I got to shoot over here, and
Speaker 1: I'm like, how do you do this and not make
Speaker 1: a bunch of noise? And at that time, I had
Speaker 1: like very little confidence in calling. But I'm like, I'm
Speaker 1: just gonna break this while I grunt and maybe somebody
Speaker 1: will here it and think there's a chase going on.
Speaker 1: So I started grunning and I broke these branches off
Speaker 1: and I looked up in this came running, just running,
Speaker 1: and he stopped right in front of me. I shot
Speaker 1: him and he ran down the hill and died. And
Speaker 1: at that time, you know, and he wasn't very big,
Speaker 1: but it was like, holy shit, like I can't believe
Speaker 1: that work. And you know, like when when you think
Speaker 1: about stuff like that, it's like, so sometimes we're so cautious.
Speaker 1: And I think I think that's one thing that you've
Speaker 1: shown people, maybe more than anybody in the hunting industry,
Speaker 1: is like, listen, you've got to be smart about this,
Speaker 1: but you don't have to be overly cautious. We've been
Speaker 1: fed this line that you're like, you got to preserve
Speaker 1: dear movement and you can't do this, and you can't
Speaker 1: do that, and you can't blow them out of there,
Speaker 1: and you've got to be like, you know, so like
Speaker 1: surgically precise, and you're out there and you're just like,
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna chase him. I mean, but you know,
Speaker 1: and it's like the danger with that is it looks
Speaker 1: when you see like an edited version of it, it
Speaker 1: looks easy because you see it work out or you know,
Speaker 1: you see like the the encounters, and it's like an
Speaker 1: experienced thing because you know how to move and you
Speaker 1: know when to move and to read the conditions and stuff.
Speaker 1: So it's not there's there's sort of a I don't
Speaker 1: want to say, like a disingenuous look to it, but
Speaker 1: it's like an incomplete picture. So it goes both ways.
Speaker 1: You know, well, and I think it's one of these
Speaker 1: things where I still haven't fully explained or been able
Speaker 1: to figure out how to explain how to start that
Speaker 1: or how to break into that. But like, I mean,
Speaker 1: it kind of taps into the topic that you you
Speaker 1: wanted to talk about it like giving bucks like all
Speaker 1: this credit, like that they're they're so they're so smart,
Speaker 1: and don't get me wrong, they are a mature buck
Speaker 1: is smarter than most deer. But with that being said,
Speaker 1: he's still just a deer. He's still just a deer.
Speaker 1: Even a five, even a nine year old buck has
Speaker 1: been around the block a bunch of times. He's still
Speaker 1: a deer. And I think that, um, you know, just understanding,
Speaker 1: like based off of your experiences, what they can see,
Speaker 1: what are the things that they can see, How easy
Speaker 1: is it for them to smell you, how much nois
Speaker 1: does it take to catch their attention? And then you know,
Speaker 1: just learning how to finesse those things is something that
Speaker 1: only happens once you just dive into that head first
Speaker 1: and stop bringing about hey like I'm gonna I'm gonna
Speaker 1: spook deer, But so is a guy walking to his
Speaker 1: tree stand, Like there's no difference. Still just a hunter
Speaker 1: in the woods to theas deer. It's no different. And
Speaker 1: in some situations, I think it's a hunter in the woods,
Speaker 1: but it's less it's so much less predictable that that's
Speaker 1: to your advantage, even when spooking deer. Right, So, you know,
Speaker 1: you think about most bow hunters there they're setting in,
Speaker 1: setting up in stationary positions, a lot of times in
Speaker 1: a tree, a lot of times in a permanent spot
Speaker 1: where I mean you think about a big buck, You're
Speaker 1: in his home and all of a sudden, you know,
Speaker 1: there's all this grounds on the ground, there's this new
Speaker 1: metal piece sticking to a tree, you know, and then
Speaker 1: when every time he smells that hunter, it's right in
Speaker 1: that same spot. You know. That's where I think it's
Speaker 1: more dangerous, truly endear smarter than us in that way
Speaker 1: than just me randomly running through a betting area, you know,
Speaker 1: or I don't say running, but you know, blowing up
Speaker 1: a betting area on accident. It's like, yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: they're kind of come back because they're not like that's
Speaker 1: not predictable, Like how are they going to predict that again?
Speaker 1: You know what I mean? Anyway, well, and I mean
Speaker 1: it is true and it you know, one of the
Speaker 1: reasons that we do give them so much credit is
Speaker 1: because we tend to try to hunt them where we
Speaker 1: want to hunt. And this is you know, I talked
Speaker 1: to any may about this, and this is like so common,
Speaker 1: and you know, the message from a lot of like
Speaker 1: Public Land killers is like if you do what everybody
Speaker 1: else does, it's not gonna work because they have you
Speaker 1: dialed that way. And I always like I've really started
Speaker 1: to think and think about it, like you know, we're
Speaker 1: the scariest predator they have out there. We don't think
Speaker 1: about it that way, but like imagine, I mean, just
Speaker 1: imagine like the average guns season out Like how terrifying
Speaker 1: that was. I mean, you've got dudes everywhere in trees
Speaker 1: with high powered rifles or shotguns, we're depending on where
Speaker 1: you're at. And then all of a sudden, you've got
Speaker 1: a line of seven of them walking through the woods
Speaker 1: in the corn and you've got guys on the end.
Speaker 1: Like imagine a scenario where you're, you know, like you're
Speaker 1: a prey animal and you encounter that ship, you know,
Speaker 1: and so like they're gonna dial into it. They're just
Speaker 1: gonna go man when you know, even especially like the
Speaker 1: things they learned about us after dark, like the scent
Speaker 1: we leave and oh, this corner of this field on
Speaker 1: public Land has fresh human scent every freaking time I
Speaker 1: come out here. So I think probably I'm not coming
Speaker 1: out here in daylight, you know, And I just think
Speaker 1: it's like sometimes as simple as that. And I know,
Speaker 1: I know there's individual variables out there, but really, like
Speaker 1: if you're if you're taking the easy access and you're
Speaker 1: sitting the places that you want to sit because you
Speaker 1: can see a lot, you're probably sitting in a place
Speaker 1: where deer have you. You and everybody who has done
Speaker 1: that for however many years pretty much dialed in. Now
Speaker 1: you don't see him every time by any means when
Speaker 1: you do this. But in my opinion, to hunt a
Speaker 1: whitetail buck, find like stick habitat that is tough to
Speaker 1: access for one reason or another. And I mean not
Speaker 1: to dive into the to the you know, creative or
Speaker 1: tough access thing, but like think outside of your out
Speaker 1: of the box, look at what the majority of people
Speaker 1: are doing, and if they're doing something that's not leading
Speaker 1: them to that thick area, there's going to be about
Speaker 1: their period like it's not and and I mean that's
Speaker 1: the most dumbed down version of it. There's so many
Speaker 1: fine details that you can take into consideration, but that's
Speaker 1: your starting point. And then just go in there and
Speaker 1: have confidence and try something that is different or put
Speaker 1: yourself in, you know, a situation that you haven't maybe before.
Speaker 1: And honestly, to me, that's when I started doing stuff
Speaker 1: that was off ball and I quit karen at all
Speaker 1: about what I was supposed to be doing or you know,
Speaker 1: thinking about it a certain way. That's when better things
Speaker 1: started happening. And even even you know, when I look
Speaker 1: back on I mean, are there's so many hunts man
Speaker 1: where it's straight up bumped a buck, straight up bumped him,
Speaker 1: And that's how I found out that he was there,
Speaker 1: like watching him run away, like he knows I'm there
Speaker 1: and he's going away. And now whether I shoot him
Speaker 1: in that same spot where you know, a little bit
Speaker 1: different spot or whatever, or see him even but like
Speaker 1: like we just give him so much credit that it's
Speaker 1: like once they you spook him, once it's over, it's like,
Speaker 1: well not necessarily, if you've got enough room to roam,
Speaker 1: like he's probably still I mean, he's definitely still gonna
Speaker 1: just be on that area somewhere, So what's the next spot?
Speaker 1: I Mean it's just like I could look back on
Speaker 1: the wall here and just say that's that this one
Speaker 1: than I bumped um one a bump bump bumped. You know,
Speaker 1: it's just like it's pretty ridiculous. Yeah. Well, and you
Speaker 1: know what I always think about with that too, because
Speaker 1: I you know, when I grew up, when I first
Speaker 1: started hunting, that was a big deal. Like you don't
Speaker 1: freaking do that. Like if you if they know you're there,
Speaker 1: you're done. You know, like it's over. And you know,
Speaker 1: as you get older and you start getting more experience
Speaker 1: out there, like they don't go anywhere, like I mean,
Speaker 1: that's where he lives, and so he might change his
Speaker 1: behavior where he lives to some extent, but he's given
Speaker 1: you such a valuable piece of information because he was
Speaker 1: there today in these conditions and you saw him. So
Speaker 1: you know, like now it's your move, and always think
Speaker 1: about it. Like we we do a lot of rabbit
Speaker 1: hunting in like January and February, and you know, like
Speaker 1: we look at white tails, were like they're so smart,
Speaker 1: they're so okay, g there's such survivor machines. And then
Speaker 1: you go push a cotton tail rabbit out of like
Speaker 1: a you know, cattail slew or like an overgrown homestead
Speaker 1: and if you don't kill him you're not sitting there
Speaker 1: thinking like, oh, well, that rabbit's never gonna be back
Speaker 1: right like you, I think tomorrow that son of a
Speaker 1: bitch is gonna be right here, and maybe when we
Speaker 1: push him he'll squirt out a different way. Or you know,
Speaker 1: the same thing with the pheasants on public land is
Speaker 1: like you you run through slew one way one day,
Speaker 1: If you go back and do it the next day,
Speaker 1: it usually doesn't work as well. But those pheasants are there,
Speaker 1: so now instead of just blowing out the end, they
Speaker 1: you know, they snuck to the edge of the open
Speaker 1: water and they waited, or you know, all of a
Speaker 1: sudden they flush behind you and they're just learning from you.
Speaker 1: But they're there and huntable. And I think quite too,
Speaker 1: like I think out too, Like I think there's the
Speaker 1: same thing like, yeah, we we look at them like
Speaker 1: they got us really figured out on a level of
Speaker 1: thinking that we're they don't have, Like they have survivor
Speaker 1: instincts and they can learn. But it's not like, you know,
Speaker 1: we got a lot of advantages between our ears. Even
Speaker 1: the dumbest hunter out there is a hell of a
Speaker 1: lot smarter than the smartest buck. Right, And I think
Speaker 1: it's I think that voice though, or where where what
Speaker 1: really separates folkses is when you start making the choice
Speaker 1: to learn from those mistakes or you learn from that
Speaker 1: and you say, hey, what can I do differently or
Speaker 1: what like Okay, he was here, and what's he going
Speaker 1: to do next? You know, maybe you have enough time
Speaker 1: to hunt him at day, Which that's one thing that
Speaker 1: blows my mind, is like to me, to me, I guess,
Speaker 1: let me back up to me more and more. There's
Speaker 1: no better confidence boost than seeing Bucks in an area.
Speaker 1: Like if you're seeing Bucks do something or whatever, it's like, okay,
Speaker 1: like I just need to go get in there and
Speaker 1: just start, you know, committing some effort to that. And
Speaker 1: if that's the case, then you know it's all about
Speaker 1: just making fine decisions from there. But like there's so
Speaker 1: many times I see, like especially on videos, where somebody
Speaker 1: else see a buck and it's just like, okay, that's
Speaker 1: the target buck. But then they continue to just like
Speaker 1: sit there and wait. And it's like, especially in bow season,
Speaker 1: I think there's a lot of times or the reason
Speaker 1: that you just saw him is just because they already
Speaker 1: know that that's where you're going to be. Like especially
Speaker 1: with a bow. Now, they get quick when they start hearing,
Speaker 1: get quick to change when they hear guns go off.
Speaker 1: But like if you're bow hunting and they just kind
Speaker 1: of make that loop around your stand and that stand
Speaker 1: has been there for forever, especially if it's a buffet,
Speaker 1: you know, if it's like wait, maybe he's actually this
Speaker 1: patterned me And I think you know, just to think
Speaker 1: critically of your mistakes or not even your mistakes, but
Speaker 1: you're maybe laughing success or maybe not the success that
Speaker 1: you want. Just thinking outside the box a little bit,
Speaker 1: because again, you are smarter than them. Like you can
Speaker 1: literally bump on it a day and that be his downfall.
Speaker 1: I mean it happens all the time, and it's just
Speaker 1: it's so funny. Though. I guess the bumping thing is
Speaker 1: something that just it's honestly something I need to get
Speaker 1: back to a little bit more. I need to get
Speaker 1: a little looser and just start you know, not playing
Speaker 1: don't play things cautious. And I think that's the other
Speaker 1: thing too, where I mentioned he find a thick spot.
Speaker 1: I mean this is very general, but thick spot where
Speaker 1: not a lot of people are going. There's gonna be
Speaker 1: a buck there, don't worry about like playing that spot
Speaker 1: super safe because you're probably good enough to find another one.
Speaker 1: So if you mess it up, if you hunt it
Speaker 1: ultra aggressive and you do feel like you messed it up,
Speaker 1: just go to the next spot, go to a different spot,
Speaker 1: and just keep moving. And that's something that I find
Speaker 1: when I feel like I'm making mistakes, especially after the season,
Speaker 1: I can really break it down. It's like maybe I
Speaker 1: just spent too much time in that spot and I
Speaker 1: wasn't looking at it, you know, I should have just
Speaker 1: not tiptoed around there, just either went somewhere else or
Speaker 1: just went straight to the money spot and then got
Speaker 1: out of there and then with the different spot. Anyway,
Speaker 1: I'm getting winded. Well, you know. You know where where
Speaker 1: I feel that the most, like currently in my my
Speaker 1: white tail hunting is is situations where I'm like close
Speaker 1: but not right on where I need to be, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean. So it's not like I'm not
Speaker 1: talking about like you're sitting on a hundred acre cornfield
Speaker 1: that's been cut and they come out on the far end,
Speaker 1: and like like North Dakota last year, for example, I
Speaker 1: had one buck that was like he was in play
Speaker 1: and he was you know, he was a nice deer.
Speaker 1: He wasn't a giant. He's like er in public land,
Speaker 1: and he was like the guy living there. And I'm like,
Speaker 1: he's the one I'm targeting. And I went in on
Speaker 1: him to kill him on a water hole because of
Speaker 1: where he was. And he came in the first night
Speaker 1: and he was like six ft from being in my
Speaker 1: shooting lane and he winded me because it was just wonky,
Speaker 1: and I just I was pushing it whatever. I blew
Speaker 1: him out, and I knew, I knew I was like
Speaker 1: on the edge right, Like I knew this was like
Speaker 1: it might break my way, might break his way. But
Speaker 1: I was also like, you're kind of sitting where you
Speaker 1: want to sit when you probably should be like fifty
Speaker 1: yards over there. And it's not right over the water,
Speaker 1: it's over one of the routes to it, but it
Speaker 1: was right. And I sat there the next morning and
Speaker 1: I watched a bunch of deer go by there, and
Speaker 1: I'm like, you know this, and yet you're like just
Speaker 1: content to sit far enough off where it could work
Speaker 1: for you instead of just getting down freaking moving. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and and like what's what are you? What are you sacrificing, Like,
Speaker 1: what's the worst that happens? Like in your brain. To me,
Speaker 1: that's what always happens is it's like, oh, another deer
Speaker 1: is gonna get down wind of me or something. It's like, so, yeah,
Speaker 1: if that's where the buck is gonna walk, be able
Speaker 1: to shoot that at ten yards, you know, but but
Speaker 1: go on, sorry, but I mean, it's just it's the
Speaker 1: little stuff like that, and you know, it's settling, Like
Speaker 1: I think there's like so much danger in settling on
Speaker 1: anything like that, because you know, when I think about
Speaker 1: most of the public land bucks I've killed, it's it's
Speaker 1: almost always like an observation and then a move and
Speaker 1: a kill. It's you know, sometimes you get it right
Speaker 1: right away. Sometimes it's a grind on day seven or
Speaker 1: whatever like it. It goes a lot of different ways.
Speaker 1: But when I feel like I'm in the zone and
Speaker 1: I'm making it work, it's almost always like here's my spot,
Speaker 1: I'm watching, I see something, they give you, they give
Speaker 1: you something, and then you're on the next day and
Speaker 1: it just happens that way. And I think one of
Speaker 1: the things I want to ask you about this is like,
Speaker 1: do you feel when you're out there because you come
Speaker 1: from Iowa. You come from you know, like Bill Winkie's
Speaker 1: world a long time ago, and you know, like the
Speaker 1: name bucks and grow them and and like the totally
Speaker 1: different style from what you guys have done on th HP.
Speaker 1: I think that there's like a a level of like
Speaker 1: you kind of unshackle yourself when you go to public
Speaker 1: land because you don't have that history and you're not
Speaker 1: a one buck hunter. You're like, where's the spot? And
Speaker 1: you said this earlier, like where's this thick spot that
Speaker 1: a buck lives? Because that buck that's in there is
Speaker 1: probably big enough to make you happy. And you're not
Speaker 1: like I gotta find X amount of hit listers. You're like,
Speaker 1: I gotta find a spot to hunt deer, and I'm
Speaker 1: going to accept the fact whether I'm in Georgia or
Speaker 1: Nebraska or whatever, that the buck that is here, he's
Speaker 1: gonna be good enough. And you'll decide in the moment.
Speaker 1: But usually when you find the spot, the buck lives
Speaker 1: up to your expectations. And you know, I mean, if
Speaker 1: you have a range, that's better. This is what This
Speaker 1: is what I when I feel like I'm hunting my
Speaker 1: best or us as a group, we're hunting our best
Speaker 1: is when we have this mentality of we're hunting where
Speaker 1: we think the biggest buck in the damn county lives,
Speaker 1: but if a nice one comes in, we're shooting him,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. It's like whatever that means.
Speaker 1: A decent one comes in, you know, whatever that means.
Speaker 1: That made very place to place. But like it's it's
Speaker 1: just so important to have that mentality. I think, hunt
Speaker 1: where you think there's a big one and like you said,
Speaker 1: there's probably a day and good chance he's going to
Speaker 1: be there. And honestly, in my experience, a lot of times,
Speaker 1: I'm so pleasantly surprised. There's been a lot of situations
Speaker 1: where I'm like, oh, I didn't think that that was
Speaker 1: going to come out of here necessarily, But I'm plenty
Speaker 1: happy with that, and like yeah, you just know, you
Speaker 1: just know in the moment too, it's like oh yeah,
Speaker 1: good enough, like shooting well. And I mean but at
Speaker 1: that point there, that that was something that I encountered
Speaker 1: when I really started hunting public land too, was like, man,
Speaker 1: what's supposed to be here versus what I'm seeing is
Speaker 1: is better and and it's like everywhere you go, like
Speaker 1: I shouldn't say that. A lot of places you go
Speaker 1: to and you know, like you talk to the locals
Speaker 1: and they're like, it's not worth it, and you don't
Speaker 1: know if they're full of ship or if they really
Speaker 1: believe it or whatever. Who knows. But so often, you know,
Speaker 1: there's like a stigma attached to a certain place, and
Speaker 1: it's always always comes from the people who live there
Speaker 1: who have kind of written it off, and then you
Speaker 1: go in and it's like, jeez, you know, like everybody
Speaker 1: talks about genetics and being in the Trophy States, but
Speaker 1: I'm like, you get dear to three years old, which
Speaker 1: happens everywhere. I don't care where you live. You're already
Speaker 1: talking about deer that are gonna probably get most people's
Speaker 1: heart rate up, and like be a great deer. Whether
Speaker 1: it's a hundred inch or a hundred and thirty inch
Speaker 1: or whatever, ninety I don't care. It's all situational and
Speaker 1: they're out there, and I think I think that's like
Speaker 1: so important, Like I think that's one of the things
Speaker 1: you guys showed, and I think what's crazy about it
Speaker 1: is like, yeah, you guys are good hunters, but you're
Speaker 1: also just showing people what's out there, And so I
Speaker 1: think people are often like, well, Jesus, what's their secret?
Speaker 1: Like why why are they capable of doing this everywhere?
Speaker 1: It's like, yeah, they're good hunters, but they're also just
Speaker 1: showing you what you didn't think was there because they're
Speaker 1: out there doing this, and that's an important lesson. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And it's weird too because with public land there's generally
Speaker 1: enough ground that you find something. Like I said, it's
Speaker 1: better than what you expect because and and again, in
Speaker 1: my experience, if I'm covering a bunch of ground, I'm
Speaker 1: finding stuff. Eventually will find something. It doesn't always happen
Speaker 1: on the second day. And like I like to think
Speaker 1: of every trip that I make is like we're talking
Speaker 1: earlier about being relatable. I like to think seven days
Speaker 1: is fairly realistic. You know, I don't. I don't technically
Speaker 1: have like a home base for whitetail anymore. You don't
Speaker 1: have a home play. I don't have out my back
Speaker 1: door scalt Like every time I go to Scout Dear,
Speaker 1: it's more than five hours away. You know, at minimum,
Speaker 1: that's very minimum. That's like the closest white tail stuff.
Speaker 1: Everything else is you know, pretty much on the fly,
Speaker 1: So I like to think in seven days that's pretty
Speaker 1: realistic to somebody's trip for the year. So in most
Speaker 1: most of the time, I'm trying to fit that into
Speaker 1: seven days. Sometimes it's more, sometimes it's less. But for
Speaker 1: the most part, the progression goes like, find find areas
Speaker 1: that are of interest, drive around them, spend a day
Speaker 1: covering ground around them to see if what the access
Speaker 1: is like, what the neighborhood looks like. Then go put
Speaker 1: boots on the ground and just cover ground and just
Speaker 1: try to find where there's this sign that's telling me
Speaker 1: there is something there that's something I want to chase,
Speaker 1: and eventually you find it. There's a lot of places
Speaker 1: that yeah, it's like you get in there, it's like, oh,
Speaker 1: so this old stands, and you know there's four wheeler
Speaker 1: trails where there shouldn't be, and you know there's all
Speaker 1: this hunter signed. But then all of a sudden, if
Speaker 1: you cover enough ground and you do that initial legwork
Speaker 1: to kind of find places that are maybe off wall
Speaker 1: a little bit, eventually you find something that tells you
Speaker 1: it's like, oh, this has got it. And honestly, a
Speaker 1: lot of times more than I think it's going to
Speaker 1: have more than one, you know, you get back there, nurse.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's an example I used earlier when we're
Speaker 1: talking about the mistakes that those two bucks is two
Speaker 1: bucks that I would have been more than happy to shoot.
Speaker 1: We're on the same ridge system, Like they were right
Speaker 1: in the same area. They were within probably within four
Speaker 1: hundred yards of those two encounters were. And it's like
Speaker 1: in those two bucks were different bucks and what we
Speaker 1: saw the day prior, so there was like four in
Speaker 1: there that we would have, you know, been happy to shoot.
Speaker 1: So it's just I don't know, I think that's and
Speaker 1: you know, there's also a lot of I hear a
Speaker 1: lot about states like I actually won't even throw anybody
Speaker 1: under the bus. I just will save them from it.
Speaker 1: But you know, you know, you're kind of a typical
Speaker 1: states that you hear the most like kind of grape
Speaker 1: them about. I guess like, oh, there's no bucks here,
Speaker 1: There's no And it's like you start looking at the
Speaker 1: map there and it's like there's so much public land
Speaker 1: that there's absolutely a lot of mature bucks. I mean,
Speaker 1: anywhere where there's mountains in the Eastern United States, there's
Speaker 1: gonna be hammers in there because there's just not that
Speaker 1: many people like, you know, even more so than like
Speaker 1: an elk country. So Elk country, for example, is super extreme,
Speaker 1: super rugged. But like the people that go out there
Speaker 1: to hunt elk all have that mentality that we're going
Speaker 1: anywhere where there's elk. It doesn't matter if it's you know,
Speaker 1: twelve thousand feet or if it's down at nine thousand,
Speaker 1: We're going anywhere and everywhere. White tail hunters don't do that.
Speaker 1: If there's a mountain that that is that you know,
Speaker 1: three some foot and it's super rugged, bunch of finger
Speaker 1: ridges off the main ridge. I mean, there's magnum bucks
Speaker 1: in there. Like they may not be they may not
Speaker 1: scork d but there's bucks that are probably gonna dive
Speaker 1: old age in that stuff. Well, and I know, and
Speaker 1: you know, I think Pennsylvania is such a good example
Speaker 1: of that. I was just going to name that one,
Speaker 1: but it really is, because you know, I grew up
Speaker 1: hearing about Pennsylvania and how many hunters are out there,
Speaker 1: in the density of hunters and just like like an
Speaker 1: insurmountable amount of pressure, and I know, I know something's
Speaker 1: changed out there, But man, I have some buddies you know,
Speaker 1: Clinton Campbell and Aaron Heppler and somebody's dudes out there.
Speaker 1: They're scouting their asses off out there, and they are
Speaker 1: on big deer all the time. And I mean, like,
Speaker 1: dear that most people, if they were sitting on a
Speaker 1: tree stander and Iowa, are going to shoot if it
Speaker 1: comes down the trail. And you just look at that
Speaker 1: and you go, yeah, I mean, like that's that's make
Speaker 1: anybody happy. And I know, I honestly think that one
Speaker 1: of the worst things we do about deer, you know,
Speaker 1: kind of not only given them too much credit, but
Speaker 1: also just like just like buying into the negativity around
Speaker 1: every freaking opportunity so fast when you look at that
Speaker 1: and go like is this true? Is this really true?
Speaker 1: That you know, this six thousand acre chunk of public
Speaker 1: land here has no big ones in it because of
Speaker 1: the right bahrners kill them all and it you know,
Speaker 1: like the best example is that, like when you hear
Speaker 1: somebody from like Nebraska or like South Dakota complain about
Speaker 1: that like, oh, you know, our gun season sucks. It's
Speaker 1: just it's brown, it's down and there's no big bucks
Speaker 1: in there. And I'm like, are you sure like have
Speaker 1: you driven around in August and looked at some of
Speaker 1: these places like they're there somewhere, you know. But if
Speaker 1: you if you haven't made up in your head that
Speaker 1: it isn't gonna work for you. It's not gonna freaking work,
Speaker 1: you're not gonna find it. Yeah, well, and and it's
Speaker 1: not it's not necessarily something that I mean again, when
Speaker 1: you compare things to what you're seeing kind of mainstream
Speaker 1: media too, it's it's so much of a different situation
Speaker 1: for the most part that it's like you're watching people
Speaker 1: just like I don't know, look at this bean field
Speaker 1: and watch an hour before dark, you know, a handful
Speaker 1: of does, a couple of small bucks, and you know,
Speaker 1: one big giant body, big antler buck come out. It's like, man,
Speaker 1: it's so easy there. And it's like, yeah, honestly, it
Speaker 1: probably is easier situation, but that doesn't mean it can't
Speaker 1: be done in your spot. It's just going to take
Speaker 1: a different learning curve. And like that's where you know,
Speaker 1: it really comes down to all hunting, just getting out
Speaker 1: there and trying. You're never gonna get any better if
Speaker 1: you just say, oh, I only want to wait for
Speaker 1: the good stuff. That's just I mean, that's just I
Speaker 1: don't know, it's unrealistic and not get the hunt as
Speaker 1: much as you want. You're not gonna get the become
Speaker 1: as good of a hunter as you want if you
Speaker 1: are only waiting for the good. It's just like we
Speaker 1: were talking about elk before this, and it's like you
Speaker 1: could be the type of person that's like, you know what,
Speaker 1: I want to hunt milk every year, and when I'm
Speaker 1: done hunting milk thirty years from now, four years, when
Speaker 1: I'm dead. That's what I'm hoping to be done, is
Speaker 1: when I'm dead. But you know, I could sit there
Speaker 1: and wait for the best opportunities, the best tags, weight
Speaker 1: put in preferenced points, and draw these tags every five
Speaker 1: or six years, and maybe on my wall in my
Speaker 1: trophy room that I'm showing off to my buddies. Maybe
Speaker 1: that makes me look like the better hunting. But if
Speaker 1: I'm actually going every year, getting more experienced, getting more
Speaker 1: days in the field, and I maybe have a couple
Speaker 1: of rag horns to show for it, in my opinion,
Speaker 1: the person with the rag horns, that's the person that's
Speaker 1: that's the better hunter. He's getting the experience. Not to
Speaker 1: say that you know, everybody likes to shoot a big buck,
Speaker 1: everybody likes shoot a big bowl. But like, at the
Speaker 1: end of the day, getting experienced shooting deer, that's that's
Speaker 1: the most valuable thing that you could do as a hunter.
Speaker 1: And sometimes it doesn't always look pretty for you know,
Speaker 1: like it would as the guy in the magazine that's
Speaker 1: got the hundred back. It's just like it's not always
Speaker 1: like that, and that's okay that that doesn't mean you're
Speaker 1: not a good hunter carry either, And I think keeping
Speaker 1: that in mind too, he gets the ship. Anybody thinks, man,
Speaker 1: that's the thing who cares with it. And unfortunately to
Speaker 1: be a big a good hunter these days because because
Speaker 1: of pictures and social media, and it's the kind of
Speaker 1: the idea around hunting is like, unfortunately a lot of
Speaker 1: people believe you have to kill big bucks and that's
Speaker 1: just not true. Well and I mean the reality is
Speaker 1: it's not going to work out anyway, yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: And hunting is such a weird thing because we don't
Speaker 1: we look like everybody has like the same chance and
Speaker 1: the same skill level and stuff. It's just not true.
Speaker 1: And I was thinking about this the other day. I
Speaker 1: can't remember how it came up. But we're talking. I
Speaker 1: was talking to my daughters about artists, like you know,
Speaker 1: people who create different ships, and I was like, some
Speaker 1: people just have it and some people don't, you know,
Speaker 1: Like I always joke my wife hates it, but I
Speaker 1: was joke like I don't. The only thing I'm manly
Speaker 1: with is hunting and fishing. Like if you were like, hey,
Speaker 1: go change the oil in your truck, I like, I
Speaker 1: don't know how to do that. I'm gonna screw that up.
Speaker 1: Like I mean like in YouTube it or whatever. Like
Speaker 1: we all have our different talents and like you just
Speaker 1: might not You might not be good enough to go
Speaker 1: out and kill big bucks everywhere. Well you also might
Speaker 1: just not have set your your life up in a
Speaker 1: situation where you get as much opportunity either. Like that's
Speaker 1: another factor that Like last time we did a podcast,
Speaker 1: We're talking with Mark and he asked like the question
Speaker 1: of you know, if you only have one morning to hunt.
Speaker 1: I I thought about that for years. It's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: stuff would look a lot different for me if I
Speaker 1: had my life set up differently. And I think that, like,
Speaker 1: you know, you look at every person's hunting situation. Everybody's
Speaker 1: in a different situation, different years of experience, different influences,
Speaker 1: different I mean, just think about like having a good
Speaker 1: hunting mentor versus being you know, from the time of
Speaker 1: your little kid to the time you know, you start
Speaker 1: going on your own handful of years versus somebody that's
Speaker 1: like out of college twenty two years old, twenty five
Speaker 1: years old, and you're like, I think I might start hunting.
Speaker 1: Think about how different that situation is. And if you
Speaker 1: start to immediately measure yourself against other people, yeah, you
Speaker 1: just start doing In my opinion, that's just the wrong
Speaker 1: thing do in general, because you can't measure yourself because
Speaker 1: your situation is not necessarily the same. YEA, think about
Speaker 1: somebody who you know is hunting in the mountains of
Speaker 1: North Carolina compared to somebody who you know, all of
Speaker 1: a sudden, like just what happens, chance landed, you know,
Speaker 1: this big property to hunt in Kansas. I mean, think
Speaker 1: about how much different those two situations look. And if
Speaker 1: there's if the guy from North Carolina's sitting here looking
Speaker 1: at the dough that he killed with his bow and
Speaker 1: he's comparing it too. You know, this guy that shopped
Speaker 1: this big back on his property in Kansas. Is that
Speaker 1: the same comparison. It's like, in my opinion, it isn't.
Speaker 1: But you also can't get down that rabbit hole of
Speaker 1: comparing either. That's why you just gotta worry about your
Speaker 1: ship and keep going, just keep having fun, you know.
Speaker 1: I think I think one of the dangerous things that's happened,
Speaker 1: you know, with with hunting media and just like the
Speaker 1: amount of content that's out there now is like I've
Speaker 1: noticed this, especially like turkey hunting. I take a lot
Speaker 1: of people out turkey hunting, and you know, you get
Speaker 1: somebody who's only been doing it a couple of years
Speaker 1: or whatever, but they've got like you know, they're all
Speaker 1: cameled up and they have the gear and everything, and
Speaker 1: you talk to him, and inevitably they watch you eyes,
Speaker 1: they watch meat eater. They they're consumers, and you know,
Speaker 1: they're they're almost trying to like learn vicariously through the content.
Speaker 1: And and like some of the content is really good
Speaker 1: and like you can learn some stuff from it, and
Speaker 1: but I think like the main commonative it is just
Speaker 1: just inspiration, like go and try this ship on your
Speaker 1: own and learn on your own. And I think I
Speaker 1: feel like, you know, like when I was coming up,
Speaker 1: you didn't have a choice. You just did that, like
Speaker 1: because that's you know, we didn't have the same kind
Speaker 1: of content level that we have now, and it was
Speaker 1: just like, well, you just go hunt, like you just
Speaker 1: go go look for him in the summer and sneak
Speaker 1: around and you glass them and in the fall you
Speaker 1: have one tree stand and you just move around and whatever.
Speaker 1: You know, like you just learn. And now there's sort
Speaker 1: of this illusion that you can just like learn this
Speaker 1: by osmosis. And I think that like the best thing
Speaker 1: about it is like, yeah, you can get some great ideas,
Speaker 1: like you listen to and you may tell his stories
Speaker 1: like you're gonna get some ship out of it. That's
Speaker 1: that works for you, like no question. But there's also
Speaker 1: just like the inspiration level just like go out and
Speaker 1: do this. And I really think, like you know kind
Speaker 1: of what we're talking about earlier, and you said, like
Speaker 1: go find that concentration to bucks or go find that
Speaker 1: sign and the thick stuff, and you're gonna be around him. Like, man,
Speaker 1: the best part about deer hunting to me now is
Speaker 1: that feeling of getting into that spot. I don't know
Speaker 1: who's there, I see the sign, I got the you know,
Speaker 1: it gives me the warm and fuzzies, and you get
Speaker 1: up in that tree and yeah, sometimes you blank, sometimes
Speaker 1: you get busted. Sometimes like a lot of times it
Speaker 1: doesn't work out. But that feeling of like I'm I
Speaker 1: think I'm on it right now, that's the best. Like
Speaker 1: it's it's different than you know, if you go into
Speaker 1: a situation where it's like an easier hunt and whatever.
Speaker 1: People want whatever they want. But like for me, I've
Speaker 1: done some of the easy ones and it gets fun
Speaker 1: to see big bucks and kill one and not have
Speaker 1: to work too hard. But it's not the same feeling
Speaker 1: as like, man, when you just like I just I
Speaker 1: figured this out. This is the spot that makes my
Speaker 1: nuts buzz, and you get in there freaking love it
Speaker 1: because you're learning any I mean, you get your askick
Speaker 1: all the time, but you know, like you you you
Speaker 1: at least brushed up against something worthwhile there something that
Speaker 1: like I don't know, I M I know this is
Speaker 1: very abnormal. And this is just the personal thing that
Speaker 1: I would challenge somebody that maybe wants to get more
Speaker 1: out of one thing. It's like, if you want to
Speaker 1: get more out of it, consider ditching trail cameras. I
Speaker 1: know there's a lot of people that don't use them,
Speaker 1: but like it's so popular these days, and I think
Speaker 1: to myself, like there's nothing I want less than a
Speaker 1: trail camera. I hate those things. I mean I hate them.
Speaker 1: I hate finding them in the woods. I hate I
Speaker 1: I know that's abnormal, but they just drive me crazy
Speaker 1: because I think of all the things that I get
Speaker 1: to learn that somebody else just like comes in here
Speaker 1: and slaps like this, like I'm getting to learn it
Speaker 1: on my feet, and then I get to make this prediction.
Speaker 1: But then somebody else is just using this, like imagine
Speaker 1: how much you can learn from that, and then it
Speaker 1: takes away from what I like to get out of it.
Speaker 1: So for me, it's not necessarily about other people. It
Speaker 1: more it's mostly just about like I don't want to
Speaker 1: do that. I don't want to get all that info
Speaker 1: when I'd rather just make a guess, see what comes
Speaker 1: in if it excites me, make the shot or whatever,
Speaker 1: and just move on. And it's like the trail cameras
Speaker 1: I think are Man, they're a weird thing. It kind
Speaker 1: of starts to cross the line for me of like
Speaker 1: I don't know, taking some sort of advantage to a
Speaker 1: different you know, it's like it just changes the advantage.
Speaker 1: I actually think they also they change. They can if
Speaker 1: you understand them. I think they can really help, but
Speaker 1: I think in another way, they can also really hurt you,
Speaker 1: and they can really be this disease. And I feel
Speaker 1: like I'm happy that I just decided that I was
Speaker 1: gonna I shouldn't say I never use info from trail cameras,
Speaker 1: but it's not ever really anything that I'm using directly
Speaker 1: from my hunts. It's more like my buddy ran this camera.
Speaker 1: I'm looking at the pictures after the fact and just
Speaker 1: looking at that, not necessarily ever using it from my
Speaker 1: own situation. I haven't ever like I shouldn't say, ever,
Speaker 1: last I did was like and fifteen I remember really
Speaker 1: have an amount, But I just think, but but that's
Speaker 1: what you learned. I mean, I think I think that
Speaker 1: they're amazing on private land in certain situations, like you
Speaker 1: can you can dial and ship real well. When I
Speaker 1: see them, I'll never forget. So when I do that.
Speaker 1: Last Iowa take two years ago, I had three spots
Speaker 1: that had a concentration and bucks in them, like they
Speaker 1: were just they were on and one of them was
Speaker 1: just like a classic river bottom set up, and it
Speaker 1: was it didn't have as many bucks in it, but
Speaker 1: it had a ton of deer. It was just it
Speaker 1: was dumb, like you you know, like you just walked
Speaker 1: in there. There's CRP, there's some hardwood, and there's a
Speaker 1: river like and it's Iowa. I went in there, and
Speaker 1: there was there were guys hunting in there, like I
Speaker 1: wasn't the only one. And there was a trail camera
Speaker 1: set up, uh right by this guy's stand on this
Speaker 1: like super obvious crossing through through these this little woodline
Speaker 1: in the RP field, and I just kind of wanted
Speaker 1: to hold up a sign in front of it and
Speaker 1: be like they're here, dude, like come on in, like
Speaker 1: you don't need to see anything more like look around.
Speaker 1: There was freaking rubs and scrapes everywhere. And you know,
Speaker 1: the first night I sat in there, I had fourteen
Speaker 1: deer come through and I was, I was, I was
Speaker 1: a little bit awful where he was. But it's the
Speaker 1: same area and you know, like when you walk in
Speaker 1: there and there's the sign is incredible. And this was
Speaker 1: this was opening weekend, This was October one, you know,
Speaker 1: and I just look at that. I'm like, you're gonna
Speaker 1: come in and check that and be behind the eight
Speaker 1: ball on this, probably because me and a bunch of
Speaker 1: other people are hunting in here and you're gonna be
Speaker 1: looking at intel from three weeks ago, and yeah, you're
Speaker 1: gonna have inventory and you're gonna be like this big
Speaker 1: buck was here, but so was this dipshit who walked
Speaker 1: by in first light and this guy and like you
Speaker 1: it's it's like that's not the situation for it, probably,
Speaker 1: you know, yeah, yeah, And I just it just it's
Speaker 1: one of these things like I guess it can be used.
Speaker 1: I mean there, I guess that's the thing. To me,
Speaker 1: they're just so there's such a weird I don't know.
Speaker 1: Here's where I've really got. It used to not be
Speaker 1: that much of a problem for me to where I
Speaker 1: wasn't really that bothered by it. But when it gets
Speaker 1: to a point where they're just everywhere you go, that
Speaker 1: starts to become a problem. And I've funded some places
Speaker 1: where I'm walking down every single ridge in the timber
Speaker 1: and they are literally lying down the ridge, and it's
Speaker 1: like like to me, that starts to become it just
Speaker 1: becomes so strange, especially on public land, where it's like
Speaker 1: I know this is I'm probably gonna get a hell
Speaker 1: lot of hate for this, but it's just like I
Speaker 1: know that's the norm is to be buind trail cameras,
Speaker 1: but like as soon as I see my Boddy start
Speaker 1: to do that, I tell them I don't like that.
Speaker 1: I don't like to like, I don't want to be
Speaker 1: fine your cameras laying around everywhere out there, and it's
Speaker 1: just like it's just another piece of woods trash to me,
Speaker 1: just another thing that people will leave out there, just
Speaker 1: put in let deer know that, hey, we're actually out
Speaker 1: here hunting you now, you know. And it's just I
Speaker 1: don't know that it it's just something that recently has
Speaker 1: become more and more annoying to me, where it's like
Speaker 1: they just a popping up everywhere, like everywhere, and then
Speaker 1: it kind of becomes this thing to where it's like
Speaker 1: somebody's like reserving their little area, you know. On public land,
Speaker 1: it's like, especially when you put five down the ridge,
Speaker 1: it's like, well, if I'm gonna be hunting, oh I'm
Speaker 1: gonna be doing is walking in front of your camera
Speaker 1: every day. It's like that's not man, I know that
Speaker 1: that part. I mean, but that's what gets a banned,
Speaker 1: right when you see the airs on a situation with
Speaker 1: the water holes and stuff, because you know, there is
Speaker 1: an issue with claiming spots out there on public land,
Speaker 1: and you know some states, you know, some states you
Speaker 1: can't use them on public and that doesn't seem to
Speaker 1: deter anybody hardly because everywhere but it is, you know,
Speaker 1: it it's rough. But I also think because people lean
Speaker 1: on them so heavily, you can you can use that
Speaker 1: to your advantage, you know, like I mean, because you
Speaker 1: look at that and go, if that's your primary scouting strategy,
Speaker 1: you're missing a lot. And you and I agree, Well,
Speaker 1: I was just gonna say, like in this specific example
Speaker 1: where like we found all these so actually one of
Speaker 1: the bucks that I shot um a couple of years ago,
Speaker 1: we were scouting this area. I don't know if it
Speaker 1: was actually I actually think it was after we shot
Speaker 1: the buck, but we shot this buck back. It was
Speaker 1: one of these situations where it was like we picked
Speaker 1: the spot, we went to it, he was, and he
Speaker 1: was there, and we actually bumped him and then shot
Speaker 1: him later that night. Everything that I've been talking about
Speaker 1: as far as like picked spot, trust it, it's hard
Speaker 1: to get to he's going to be there. While we
Speaker 1: hunted there, it wasn't really much hunting. Sign Hunter signed
Speaker 1: in that area, but then we moved so later in
Speaker 1: the season, I was hunting filming in that same area
Speaker 1: and I was with my buddy and we were closer
Speaker 1: to the access point and we just we're going down
Speaker 1: different ridges and that's when we found one example where
Speaker 1: we found a bunch of trail cameras and it was like,
Speaker 1: if you take this piece of public land, you put
Speaker 1: access at point A, and then at point B is
Speaker 1: all these trail cameras. The buck was at point C
Speaker 1: and we bypassed it the first time we went in
Speaker 1: there and went straight to point C. Killed a buck
Speaker 1: and that, but point B there's all these cameras. And
Speaker 1: I'm not saying that, you know, it's just it's not
Speaker 1: saying the buck didn't ever spend time there. But it's
Speaker 1: just like to me, it's just another thing to add
Speaker 1: pressure onto an area too. It's this is attatchment with
Speaker 1: a trail camera, especially when you've got that many up
Speaker 1: a mount there and stands scattered into it as well.
Speaker 1: It's just it's just like you said, I don't know
Speaker 1: that that's the best application for it. It's like, if
Speaker 1: I was ever going to run a trail camera, I
Speaker 1: would put it in the deepest, darkest hole that I
Speaker 1: never wanted to go to leave it for an entire season,
Speaker 1: in the most hidden spot where I don't think anybody
Speaker 1: could ever see, and then I would just like not
Speaker 1: come get it through a year, you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: and just use that for the following season. But even then,
Speaker 1: it's like I just still I personally, I feel like
Speaker 1: my skills is an out you know, woodsman, I guess
Speaker 1: or increased if I avoid using those things. Yeah, well,
Speaker 1: I think I've got to the same place. I still
Speaker 1: use them, you know, on some of my private ground
Speaker 1: because I just like it, and especially with the girls,
Speaker 1: and I know I'm gonna take the girls to blinds.
Speaker 1: I have set up like I have fun with that.
Speaker 1: But I noticed that I went through a phase where
Speaker 1: I got to rely on on them and I felt
Speaker 1: like I was behind the eight ball all time, and
Speaker 1: I was just like, I don't like I knew it,
Speaker 1: Like I'm like, you're leaning on this too heavy and
Speaker 1: you're not having a very good year. And you know
Speaker 1: when you think about like, if you have private land
Speaker 1: and you have access to every freaking tool we have
Speaker 1: what you do so you can run trail camras, you
Speaker 1: can set stands, ladder stands, blinds, whatever the hell you want,
Speaker 1: and you're having worse hunts than when you travel on
Speaker 1: public land and you're in the moment for four or
Speaker 1: five days. There's a lesson there and that hit me
Speaker 1: over the head, probably like six years ago or something
Speaker 1: where I was like, not only am I having more
Speaker 1: fun where I'm just freelancing it and figure out something
Speaker 1: in the moment I'm doing, I'm killing bigger deer and
Speaker 1: like more consistently. And then it's like it's an eye
Speaker 1: opener because you go, why why would this be? And
Speaker 1: it's you know, like I've told this on here before,
Speaker 1: but I'll never forget. I was in North Dakota one
Speaker 1: time and there was a couple of guys, a couple
Speaker 1: other guys from Minnesota with their camp next to us,
Speaker 1: and you know, they were big buck to the nth
Speaker 1: Degree're talking about bucks they've seen all over the place
Speaker 1: and absolute dipshit. But just anyway, Uh, they they came
Speaker 1: out there. They had kayaks, they had everything, and they
Speaker 1: were running trail cameras up and down the river. And
Speaker 1: I'm sitting here, going, you guys have four days and
Speaker 1: every quarter of a mile here is a peak you
Speaker 1: can sit on and look over two miles of this
Speaker 1: fricking river. Like you can get more intel with a
Speaker 1: spotting scope in one night then you'll get with trail
Speaker 1: cameras in three weeks. There, Like it's not the right
Speaker 1: tool for the job. And you know they were. They'd
Speaker 1: go up, paddle out and find a crossing, put a
Speaker 1: put a camera on there, so the very spot that
Speaker 1: they wanted or that the deer would go. Now you've
Speaker 1: left your scent there, you've walked up on the bank
Speaker 1: and you know, like you've probably knocked down some weeds
Speaker 1: or whatever. And then you're like, I hope within the
Speaker 1: next couple of days, I'm going to get a picture
Speaker 1: of when I want to go to it, and I'm
Speaker 1: gonna go there and hunt it. Like I'm like it's
Speaker 1: a lost cause. And they left. Yeah, well and it's
Speaker 1: so norm Like I said, it's just like it's just
Speaker 1: what the hunting industry is doing and telling you, and
Speaker 1: it's like so much of a content now, Like get
Speaker 1: online and start scrolling, and you're gonna see a trail camera.
Speaker 1: Like you follow any hunting page or anything, you're gonna
Speaker 1: start seeing trail camera pictures pop up. And I guess,
Speaker 1: to me, it's just it's just not You could make
Speaker 1: this sit here and say listen to all that I'm
Speaker 1: saying too and say all trail care zact against trail cameras.
Speaker 1: Like he doesn't like, you know, he's saying that's an
Speaker 1: unfair advantage, but he's using on X. You could say
Speaker 1: the same thing about on X. I mean, yeah, it's
Speaker 1: made things a hell of a lot easier for whatever reason.
Speaker 1: Personally that doesn't cross a line for me, but for
Speaker 1: some reason, the trail And it's not just the trail cameras.
Speaker 1: I think, being um, it's not all about like one
Speaker 1: thing with the trail cameras. I guess it's like there's
Speaker 1: a bunch of things that I think are disadvantages to
Speaker 1: m to using them. There's also advantages to using them.
Speaker 1: But it's also just like mentally, it's this easy way out.
Speaker 1: It's like this easy way to just like kind of
Speaker 1: lean on this a little bit and then it's also
Speaker 1: you know, gonna hurt you in the heat of the
Speaker 1: moment when really nice Buffy would shoot every day of
Speaker 1: the week comes by, but because you've got this one
Speaker 1: stupid picture of this really big buff that you're gonna
Speaker 1: like miss that opportunity or you're gonna be like, oh,
Speaker 1: you know, I gotta go sit over here because this
Speaker 1: camera was hot last week it's the weekend or whatever,
Speaker 1: and it's like, well, that happened, Like that already happened,
Speaker 1: you know, like that's the thing. And especially when you
Speaker 1: get into self cameras, that gets even hilarious. It's like, oh,
Speaker 1: we're gonna go And I mean, don't get me wrong,
Speaker 1: you could certainly use a self camera to your advantage
Speaker 1: if you can recognize what's happening in the situation of
Speaker 1: the picture. For example, if there's a buck with the
Speaker 1: dough and you're right next door, it's easy he run
Speaker 1: over there and he's you know, he's gonna be much
Speaker 1: more easy to make a stock on, for example. But
Speaker 1: if a buck's cruising and he cruises past your self camera,
Speaker 1: so yeah, good, dude's gone already, you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: and you can chase your tail doing that, and that's
Speaker 1: one of the Jake and I did that last year
Speaker 1: when I was filming him. We just like I felt
Speaker 1: like there's times where we were kind of just like
Speaker 1: chasing this picture because he likes to run trail cameras
Speaker 1: and I don't, but I, you know, I tag along
Speaker 1: for whatever. And it's just like, you know, one of
Speaker 1: those deals that it kind of gets down to, it's like,
Speaker 1: just go with your Gut's better off just to go
Speaker 1: hunt with your gut. Just go to the places again,
Speaker 1: like we talk about man again, but all back to note,
Speaker 1: don't give them so much credit. Find the spot that
Speaker 1: makes sense, and I promise there'll be a buff there. Well,
Speaker 1: if you find ten of them, that could be your
Speaker 1: whole seat. You know, that could be your whole season.
Speaker 1: But just hind them all aggressively, go straight to the
Speaker 1: X and go hunted. He's probably going to be in
Speaker 1: there somewhere. I look at trail cameras right now, like
Speaker 1: because I do have fun running them for my daughters.
Speaker 1: I love it because every deer is a shooter and
Speaker 1: they just to get to get them pumped. It's so easy.
Speaker 1: But I always look at that like like I look
Speaker 1: at the colors for dog training. You know, if you
Speaker 1: if you look in the hunting dog world, you almost
Speaker 1: won't find a professional trainer who doesn't send every dog
Speaker 1: home with an e coller, Like that's how they they
Speaker 1: got to get results in eight weeks or twelve weeks.
Speaker 1: And that's the easiest way to do it. And they're
Speaker 1: like a great tool if you know how to use it,
Speaker 1: and you use it right with a dog that already
Speaker 1: understands everything and you've at the process down. But then
Speaker 1: the average person doesn't want to train a dog very well,
Speaker 1: and they go, this is a shortcut to a trained dog,
Speaker 1: and it's not. This is a shortcut to forced compliance
Speaker 1: that's only going to happen when that caller is on
Speaker 1: there typically. I mean it varies, you know, but it's
Speaker 1: not it's not getting you where you think it's gonna
Speaker 1: get you if you don't use it really well. And
Speaker 1: I look at that with trail cameras too, like their
Speaker 1: fogg they're they're a band aid, they're a shortcut. They
Speaker 1: can be a badass tool if you use them to
Speaker 1: complement a whole scouting strategy and you're like or even
Speaker 1: just for like you know, just just to get the
Speaker 1: confidence ut there you're like, jeez, there's like six bucks
Speaker 1: in this area that I would shoot, Like that's that's
Speaker 1: pretty good if it gets you up up in the morning.
Speaker 1: But it does, I think. I think though it starts
Speaker 1: to I think it's so easy to get in your
Speaker 1: head in a negative way to where it's just like, oh,
Speaker 1: I'm not getting pictures, Like I know that there's been
Speaker 1: examples with our group where pad of camera spot it's
Speaker 1: not picking up ship and then in reality there's bucks
Speaker 1: crawling all over just in the other corner of the
Speaker 1: piece that you can't see from the camera, And I
Speaker 1: think stuff like that like and ultimately for me, I
Speaker 1: truly believe that I will end up with more, like
Speaker 1: I guess, a better experience to where it will help
Speaker 1: me in the future without them, Right Like, if I'm
Speaker 1: seeing this sign and I'm making that decision Okay, this
Speaker 1: is where I'm gonna set up today, and I make
Speaker 1: that decision just purely based off sign, I just think
Speaker 1: that that's more advantageous in the long run than trying
Speaker 1: to use this trail cameras like a short term solution
Speaker 1: to like, oh, I'm gonna find these bus this camera
Speaker 1: or however you're choosing to use it and not like again,
Speaker 1: I'm not saying that. It's like I I said, I
Speaker 1: hate them at the beginning, and I kind of regret
Speaker 1: saying that. It's like I understand that people like them,
Speaker 1: I personally don't, and I think it's just one of
Speaker 1: those deals. I also like being different. I kind of
Speaker 1: like just you know, stirring the pot a little bit,
Speaker 1: like leave your trail camera at home and see you
Speaker 1: like and just see what you can come up with,
Speaker 1: Like you'll be better for it, and like I kind
Speaker 1: of like, just I don't know. That's kind of my
Speaker 1: main point with all that is, like leaving at home,
Speaker 1: see where you can come up with on your own.
Speaker 1: You've got the skills to do it. Trust that it
Speaker 1: doesn't have to be like wait to see on the TV. Well,
Speaker 1: trust that you can use your woods from ship skills.
Speaker 1: You know. In addition to us giving big Bucks too
Speaker 1: much credit, I think a lot of people don't give
Speaker 1: themselves enough credit, like especially you know, I was explaining
Speaker 1: to this to my little girls the other day, you know,
Speaker 1: because they had a bad turkey season. They both killed turkeys,
Speaker 1: but they missed more turkeys in two sits than I've
Speaker 1: ever seen in like twenty seven years of turkey. I mean,
Speaker 1: I was like, holy shit, guys, like we were we
Speaker 1: were out of bullet it was anyway, it was, it
Speaker 1: was melted down. I was like, these are my kids.
Speaker 1: We don't need to do a paternity test because they
Speaker 1: freaking turkey fever to the nth degree. Anyway. So now
Speaker 1: they're thinking about deer season, and I'm like, last year,
Speaker 1: you guys shot at three deer and you killed them
Speaker 1: all and two really good shots, one bad shot that
Speaker 1: worked out really well for us. And I was like,
Speaker 1: you just you got to understand that this takes time
Speaker 1: to get comfortable and you'll get to a point eventually.
Speaker 1: You know, their tents, so it'll be a while, but
Speaker 1: I'm lying to them, but I'm like, you'll get to
Speaker 1: a point where you like, you know, I put those
Speaker 1: cross hairs on behind the shoulder, or I put that
Speaker 1: beat on that turkey's neck, and you'll just know it's over,
Speaker 1: Like you'll know what you have to do. There won't
Speaker 1: be this anxiety. But it takes a while to get there,
Speaker 1: and it's it takes a while for everybody to get
Speaker 1: to those those places and when you start getting to
Speaker 1: like some of that stuff happens, it's like it feels
Speaker 1: so good because you're like, man, I got the confidence
Speaker 1: to you know, like the first time you go and
Speaker 1: kill a big one in public land, it's like, holy shit,
Speaker 1: Like this is all of a sudden, it opens up
Speaker 1: a world to you where now instead of that thing
Speaker 1: being like a negative or like something that you wouldn't
Speaker 1: really use in your arsenal, now you're like every chunk
Speaker 1: of public is potentially a hunting spot for me. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And that's an enormous advantage to believe that, to not
Speaker 1: look at it as a negative like it's over hunted
Speaker 1: or whatever, but to be like, if this place doesn't
Speaker 1: work for me, there's five other acres to figure this
Speaker 1: stuff out. Then you're then you're on a path to
Speaker 1: something that's like you're gonna get better because that's why
Speaker 1: you're just got lit. Yeah. And I just think that,
Speaker 1: like one thing that I battle with all the time
Speaker 1: with creating hunting content is that at the end of
Speaker 1: the day, I guess the end of every piece of content,
Speaker 1: I just want to put disclaimer, like all this is
Speaker 1: based off of our experiences. You go get your own
Speaker 1: like go get your own experience. That's that's what you
Speaker 1: just have to do to to And like I listen
Speaker 1: to tons of people talk about hunting too, So just
Speaker 1: like anybody else listening to this podcast or watching hunting
Speaker 1: video or whatever, I do the same thing. Don't get
Speaker 1: me wrong, Like I do the same thing. I'm watching
Speaker 1: other people. I'm listening to what Johnny Berhard has to say,
Speaker 1: I'm listening to Dan and Falder, Andy May or whatever
Speaker 1: I am. I'm trying to do exactly what those guys do,
Speaker 1: making your own style and understanding your hunting areas. You know,
Speaker 1: maybe that's you know, just one county in one state.
Speaker 1: Maybe that's a couple of counties and one state. Maybe
Speaker 1: that's a couple of states, maybe it's a couple of species,
Speaker 1: whatever it is, just start chipping away and the only
Speaker 1: thing that's going to make you learn is just getting
Speaker 1: that experience. And like, you know, we sit here and
Speaker 1: we say you and I sit here and we say
Speaker 1: that we give big bucks too much credit. But the
Speaker 1: only reason that we are able to say that is
Speaker 1: because we've put a lot of time into hunting them
Speaker 1: and we've got the experience to say, like, hey, you know,
Speaker 1: when you really break down those situations, we're probably giving
Speaker 1: them a little bit too much credit. And I think that,
Speaker 1: you know, just try and different stuff, taken little snippets
Speaker 1: from um what other people are doing, and then not
Speaker 1: being afraid of failure is just so important, and like
Speaker 1: maybe what you feel like you're doing is something you've
Speaker 1: never seen before, And to be completely honest, that's probably true.
Speaker 1: Like when I set my bow behind me that spot,
Speaker 1: I've still do this net. They never seen anybody hunt
Speaker 1: with a bow in that type of a setup, but
Speaker 1: it worked perfectly. The but literally was as close as
Speaker 1: you could get. You know, it's just like he was.
Speaker 1: He could almost reaped down and touch him. And that
Speaker 1: was the most oddball set up that you could ever
Speaker 1: draw up compared to what most people do in those situations.
Speaker 1: Not to say that they're wrong, but what works for
Speaker 1: me might not work for them, based off of style,
Speaker 1: based off of influence, based off of amow time to
Speaker 1: go hunting. I mean again back to that, everybody's got
Speaker 1: a different situation. It's just find what works for you
Speaker 1: and have confidence in it, and then don't be afraid
Speaker 1: to fail, Like, go have fun failing well and you
Speaker 1: said something there that's a really really good point that
Speaker 1: we should talk about just a little bit here. Is
Speaker 1: you're right, like we're talking about people, you know, people
Speaker 1: giving big bucks too much credit because we've gone through
Speaker 1: the stages of like what that made me think of
Speaker 1: is when I started hunting, I gave all the deer
Speaker 1: too much credit and I couldn't freaking kill one. And
Speaker 1: then when I finally started killing a few funds and
Speaker 1: does it was like if it had antlers, I gave
Speaker 1: it too much credit. Yeah, like if spikes on up, buddy,
Speaker 1: like one points on up. And I went through that,
Speaker 1: and like eventually you get to the point where you're like, okay,
Speaker 1: like I gotta kill some big ones because you know
Speaker 1: the one and I asked in the two year olds,
Speaker 1: they're they're coming. I'm getting them now. And so you
Speaker 1: go through these stages where you're like, okay, now this
Speaker 1: is the like the insurmountable level, like the three and
Speaker 1: a half year old on up, and then you break
Speaker 1: through that you realize no, it's not. And like then
Speaker 1: you break through and go not only is it not
Speaker 1: on public land or private land, it's also not on
Speaker 1: public So you go through stages. So a good thing
Speaker 1: to tell people is, you know, one of the most
Speaker 1: dangerous things you can do and this stuff is jump
Speaker 1: the line and become you know, like that trophy hunter
Speaker 1: before you've got enough of those other hunts in your
Speaker 1: real view mirror to get there. Because that's probably one
Speaker 1: of the biggest reasons people give them too much credit
Speaker 1: is they're just not ready for them yet, Like you haven't,
Speaker 1: you haven't worked your way up the ladder, and that
Speaker 1: that might be the biggest problem with social media and
Speaker 1: the content we produce is we show cameras. Absolutely we
Speaker 1: show too much of the end product of you know,
Speaker 1: decades of of hunting hard and having a lot of
Speaker 1: advantages that other people don't have. And it it gives
Speaker 1: a skewed view of this world, like are not seeing
Speaker 1: us when we were fourteen and we couldn't kill anything
Speaker 1: exactly like that, You're seeing more of a finished product
Speaker 1: now than you would for you know, the first twenty years,
Speaker 1: and it that's a big deal. Yeah, And I just
Speaker 1: I just oftentimes think, because I know that I do it,
Speaker 1: I oftentimes think of like, you know, if I ever
Speaker 1: read the comment or question or something that says like, hey,
Speaker 1: you know, I'm seeing this amount of sign what should
Speaker 1: I do? Should I I've seen this year, this year
Speaker 1: and this year, what should I do? It's like I
Speaker 1: imagine that situation being very similar to all the times
Speaker 1: that I do the same thing right where it's like
Speaker 1: what should I do right here? And it's like the
Speaker 1: only answer that is wrong is to do nothing, to
Speaker 1: like stall out and just not make a decision. And
Speaker 1: sometimes I do that too. And that's the thing where
Speaker 1: you talk about like you always see the good, but
Speaker 1: there's so many days, like a hell of a lot
Speaker 1: of days that we go hunting and things don't work
Speaker 1: out the way that we want. And the worst two
Speaker 1: things you can do is stall out and not make
Speaker 1: a decision and to let your confidence get messed up
Speaker 1: because of a little bit of failure, I guess, or
Speaker 1: a little bit of like just unanswered questions. I guess.
Speaker 1: That's the thing that happens all the time in bell hunting,
Speaker 1: especially in areas or or deer hunting in general, but
Speaker 1: like especially in areas with like low visibility or low
Speaker 1: deer densities, it's so easy to just be like, Okay,
Speaker 1: there's a scrape here, you know, I set up on it.
Speaker 1: He nothing came in for five hours, So what does
Speaker 1: that even mean? Like do I sit there tomorrow? He's like,
Speaker 1: I don't know. You know, it's like if that was
Speaker 1: your experience, I don't know what what do I do
Speaker 1: in that situation? It's still I can't tell you because
Speaker 1: it's like I don't even know that I would have
Speaker 1: an answer for it if I was in that moment
Speaker 1: right off the gate. Either. It's like it's just about
Speaker 1: going and trying and just trying and trying, and so
Speaker 1: it's just seems so ridiculous to say it. But there's
Speaker 1: no there's no easy answer. I mean, there is an
Speaker 1: easier answer. There's you know, by your own place and
Speaker 1: and you know, control all the factors and buy a
Speaker 1: bunch of land that nobody else can go on, and
Speaker 1: that's going to make things easier. But like that's probably
Speaker 1: not realistic to you. You know, yeah, that's not that's
Speaker 1: not for everyone. I think one of the one of
Speaker 1: the main points there that's like so so worth acknowledging
Speaker 1: is just not riding a dead program, like understanding when
Speaker 1: you're in one and how to get out, and you know,
Speaker 1: like because a lot of people have a high tolerance
Speaker 1: for a dead program on on off chance they're coming,
Speaker 1: you know, I mean, And I was like I I
Speaker 1: used the rut as an example, right, Like if the
Speaker 1: rut was the answer to all your problems, we would
Speaker 1: have a hundred percent success rate for hunters in Iowa
Speaker 1: with archery tags because you got the entire month of November,
Speaker 1: and if that was all it took, then you would
Speaker 1: see a hundred percent. And you don't. You don't even
Speaker 1: seem close to that. It's like want o every filling
Speaker 1: their tag? And I always look at that and I go,
Speaker 1: this happens to everyone everywhere, Like where you get into
Speaker 1: something and you're like I think this should be going
Speaker 1: and it's not. And so instead of talking yourself into
Speaker 1: just stay in there because it's like it's easy because
Speaker 1: like they're gonna come, go find what they're doing. And
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter, you know, Like we try to justify
Speaker 1: why it's a dead program. Now it's like, well it
Speaker 1: must be too hot, or it must be too windy,
Speaker 1: it must be too cold, or must be the ruts
Speaker 1: not popping off or whatever. It's like it doesn't matter,
Speaker 1: Like it doesn't like, it doesn't matter why my wife's
Speaker 1: mad at me. I'm gonna have a bad night, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean, Like, whatever I did, she's gonna
Speaker 1: punish me for. Like it doesn't at that point, it's irrelevant,
Speaker 1: and I gotta deal with what I gotta deal with,
Speaker 1: you know, like if if the deer aren't there, even
Speaker 1: if the signs there, Like if you sit there and
Speaker 1: it's the conditions are right, and you feel like you
Speaker 1: didn't make a bunch of mistakes, and let's say you
Speaker 1: get a morning in an evening there and it does
Speaker 1: not happening, Like, man, I don't know, it's time to
Speaker 1: acknowledge it and and move on. Yeah, I think it's
Speaker 1: easy to say that what if, and like it's easy
Speaker 1: to get stalled out. And I just think that that's
Speaker 1: such a it's such a like I feel so free
Speaker 1: because I haven't had it for so long. But I
Speaker 1: do know what it feels like. I do know what
Speaker 1: being stuck and stalled out and being like only confident
Speaker 1: in this one thing, it feels like I always think
Speaker 1: back the season. It was the last year that I
Speaker 1: hunted from tree stands. Mostly it was the last deer
Speaker 1: I shot from a tree stand. No, that's not true.
Speaker 1: I guess in seventeen I did. But even that I
Speaker 1: shot that back out of a tree stand. But the
Speaker 1: hunt hunt was so it was so different. It was
Speaker 1: a bump and dump, like straight up did a deer
Speaker 1: drive to see what would come out, saw him, shot him,
Speaker 1: that's it. Saw him come out, shot him a couple
Speaker 1: of days later in that same betting area, so you know,
Speaker 1: don't get him too much credit. He came back. So
Speaker 1: that was one of the examples of the bumps. With
Speaker 1: the last buck that I shot out of the tree stand.
Speaker 1: Prior to that was rut hunting. Go find the spot
Speaker 1: that was going to be on some edge down wind
Speaker 1: of the bedding area and just sit there and like
Speaker 1: that was so it was so crazy because there's this
Speaker 1: part of you that's like, I gotta do something different,
Speaker 1: But then there's this other part of you that's like, well,
Speaker 1: this has always worked, and yeah, it always has worked,
Speaker 1: and at some point it probably will work if you
Speaker 1: got the days for it. But is that really what
Speaker 1: you want? Is that what you want to just sit
Speaker 1: there and hope and wait, because like you might take
Speaker 1: a hunt that might have taken five or six days
Speaker 1: to get that opportunity. You might just shrink it down
Speaker 1: to like two or three maybe maybe not too But
Speaker 1: if it's already not working, or it's already not working
Speaker 1: at the you know paste that you wanted to, why
Speaker 1: not just get out and try something different? Like man,
Speaker 1: every single time, every single time that that happened, That's
Speaker 1: what I mean. Really, these like most of these bucks
Speaker 1: in here are the ones that are the ones I've
Speaker 1: shot in the last five years or so, and it's
Speaker 1: just like every one of them was just something different.
Speaker 1: Was like not just the same old day not doing
Speaker 1: the same thing. It wasn't hardly ever, like doing the
Speaker 1: same thing for four days finally paid off. Never like never,
Speaker 1: It's always like, you know what, let's go try this
Speaker 1: totally be different piece of pub plan. Let's go try
Speaker 1: to do a wind bump. Let's go try to you know,
Speaker 1: bump a buff or you know, let's go find a
Speaker 1: buff better with the dough or something. I mean, whatever
Speaker 1: it is, it's just like, let's just do something different.
Speaker 1: Every time I've made those moves, it ends up being
Speaker 1: something that generally tips me off at the bare minimum,
Speaker 1: you know, But I think about the same thing, Like
Speaker 1: most of my public land kills have just been a
Speaker 1: what if situation or like or like I just get
Speaker 1: curious about an area, like what why are they here
Speaker 1: or there? Or like why don't I ever go to
Speaker 1: this spot? Or does anybody hunt here? Or why like
Speaker 1: why aren't they here? And then you just go like
Speaker 1: I gotta see something different, like I gotta I just
Speaker 1: have to go look at something. And Elk is like
Speaker 1: a prime example of that. Like, man, if you hunt
Speaker 1: like the last week of the Colorado season and you're
Speaker 1: over the counter unit, you just have to be like
Speaker 1: like what if, Like what if those bulls just like
Speaker 1: hold up here below the trail in this black timber
Speaker 1: hell hole and you know they're not making a bunch
Speaker 1: of noise, but they're concentrated there. Or you look at
Speaker 1: a map and you look at the you know, trailhead here,
Speaker 1: trailhead here, and this loops around here and there's this
Speaker 1: one little basin, like what if they're there? And you
Speaker 1: know you walk into them sometimes, especially like you know,
Speaker 1: when you talk about the scouting, you're like that's my spot,
Speaker 1: that's my spot, and that's my spot, and you walk
Speaker 1: into two out of every three year, like it's not
Speaker 1: my spot, but one of them or when you're walking
Speaker 1: from one to the next one, you're like, holy sh it,
Speaker 1: this is my spot. Like I just just by asking
Speaker 1: the question what if? And I think that's like I
Speaker 1: think there's like so much value there and I think
Speaker 1: people probably listen to this and they go, well, yeah,
Speaker 1: if you're on public land or you're on an elk hunt,
Speaker 1: And man, I started doing that on the private spots.
Speaker 1: I have to hunt everywhere, even little like thirty acre
Speaker 1: private land spots, like just like are they ever in
Speaker 1: that will thicket there? Like is there a way to
Speaker 1: set up on the ground there? And then you go
Speaker 1: in there and you're like, there's more to your here
Speaker 1: than I think on the rest of the thirty acre
Speaker 1: you know, you know, like you have those moments and
Speaker 1: you go, okay, now I question everything. Yeah, well, I
Speaker 1: often get the question like when you're going into a spot,
Speaker 1: you know, what is it that you see that makes
Speaker 1: you feel confident or whatever? And I mean I asked
Speaker 1: myself that on time too, and like I don't really
Speaker 1: even know, and I wish I could. I wish I
Speaker 1: had a better way of explaining this. I still haven't
Speaker 1: nailed it down, but it's like, just go at a
Speaker 1: speed at which you feel pretty confident that you're balancing,
Speaker 1: covering ground and looking for the year, looking for a sign,
Speaker 1: and just start going off the trail, just get away
Speaker 1: from where the people are and just start trying and
Speaker 1: just start covering around. And like so many people just
Speaker 1: again have that locked into their head or there's just
Speaker 1: so many times where we all of us, myself included,
Speaker 1: get in our head like, oh, we don't want to
Speaker 1: bump a deer out of here. What if he is
Speaker 1: over there and we bumped it. You're not really gonna
Speaker 1: learn anything if you don't, especially if you set up
Speaker 1: on something that you don't feel totally confident, you don't
Speaker 1: see him, and then you keep moving. It's like maybe
Speaker 1: he was just a little bit further, maybe that maybe
Speaker 1: what you needed to figure out was just a little
Speaker 1: bit further, and like it's just you break away, Like
Speaker 1: it's like just take whatever weights on your shoulders and
Speaker 1: just get rid of it and just go hunt like
Speaker 1: you don't have like you care none because you shouldn't.
Speaker 1: And I honestly think man of people, like just again,
Speaker 1: stop giving bucks how much credit and just start hunting
Speaker 1: where the sign is. Just play it loose. We always
Speaker 1: have this joke like, hey, we'll play it loose. Keep
Speaker 1: it loose, man, because like as soon as you start
Speaker 1: overthinking of which is a terrible habit of mine. Like
Speaker 1: I'm saying this, like keep in mind the day is
Speaker 1: that you don't see on video. A lot of days
Speaker 1: with me just like thinking about it too much, and
Speaker 1: I sit there and I'm like stressing out and I'm
Speaker 1: worried about stuff, and it's like the days that it
Speaker 1: works out of the days that were like no, let's
Speaker 1: just walk in here and see what happens. Or like
Speaker 1: I shot a buck in North Dakota a couple of
Speaker 1: years ago, and the progression of that was we found
Speaker 1: the spot with with some white tails. We saw a
Speaker 1: nice bucks, a handful of small bugs. The next morning,
Speaker 1: went back, did not see the big buck. You know,
Speaker 1: It's like, you know, is this rarely really where we're
Speaker 1: going to get the opportunity that we want where you know,
Speaker 1: we can you know, hang with one until he beds
Speaker 1: down and stalk him, and it's like this just doesn't
Speaker 1: it like it could happen, But he's probably in a
Speaker 1: bed in timber where we can't see him, and that
Speaker 1: apparent apparently was what he had done that morning, because
Speaker 1: we didn't see him. So we just said, you know,
Speaker 1: let's just walk the whatever. It was like two and
Speaker 1: a half miles back to this other spot, get to
Speaker 1: a high point where we can glass, and we started
Speaker 1: seeing some bucks. It's like, okay, so that's stage one
Speaker 1: of this story. Stage one is we see this little
Speaker 1: group of bucks eight points in there in velvet that
Speaker 1: I would have shot. Then there was another buck with
Speaker 1: like a funky antler and he was shedding his velvet
Speaker 1: and he was kind of bullying the other bucks around.
Speaker 1: But the eight point in velvet was a buck. I'm like,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go for him, and he actually made a
Speaker 1: move on him the first night, didn't end up getting him,
Speaker 1: didn't ever even see him once we got down in
Speaker 1: the zone that he was in. But the next morning
Speaker 1: it was like, we're going to stand in here if
Speaker 1: you come back, so again, we'll get back to that
Speaker 1: point where we're blast him. We see him and his
Speaker 1: buddies the next morning, sure enough, and they they go
Speaker 1: into a betting area thicket and kind of lose track
Speaker 1: of them. No, they're like, no, they're in this tiny
Speaker 1: little area but don't know exactly where his body is
Speaker 1: on the ground. I get to thinking of myself, you know,
Speaker 1: what the hell with us? I'm bored, Like I'm so
Speaker 1: tired of sitting here, and I been doing it now
Speaker 1: for like what feels like two days. So it's been
Speaker 1: like an afternoon a couple of hours, and then a
Speaker 1: couple of hours in the morning. But for me to
Speaker 1: sit in once by that long too long. So I
Speaker 1: just start walking down the ridge and I've got, i think,
Speaker 1: just my buy nose maybe out of spawning to go.
Speaker 1: But I'm just walking down the top and I'm like,
Speaker 1: obviously I'm like hiding behind the terrain, but I'm going
Speaker 1: and peeking over and I get all the way to
Speaker 1: the end of this ridge where it starts to play
Speaker 1: out into the river, and I'm like, like, this feels weird,
Speaker 1: Like I feel like I'm somewhere where I should, you know,
Speaker 1: like big bucklets down here. And I just as soon
Speaker 1: as I started to get that feeling, I jumped some
Speaker 1: prong horn, which was abnormal, like they're tucked in this
Speaker 1: really weird spot where nobody had ever bumped him, and
Speaker 1: I was like that also tipped me off to like
Speaker 1: some something you eat here, because it's not like we've
Speaker 1: been seeing these things everywhere. And I went and peeked
Speaker 1: over the other side, and that's when I saw this
Speaker 1: big eight pointer and he's standing there feeding completely by himself.
Speaker 1: Now I tell that story to just say like I
Speaker 1: couldn't even explain to you the carelessness that I have
Speaker 1: walking over there, And not to say that in the
Speaker 1: negative way, I mean that in a good wayne. Well,
Speaker 1: but what was gonna go wrong? Like those bucks that
Speaker 1: had betted and I couldn't see they weren't gonna spook.
Speaker 1: Maybe maybe I get a different angle on them, I
Speaker 1: get eyes on them, or I see this bigger buck
Speaker 1: and end up killing that one. And that's exactly what happened.
Speaker 1: Is I moved down there. Had I not moved down there,
Speaker 1: I mean not seeing that deer for you know ever.
Speaker 1: And it's just it's so funny to like get so
Speaker 1: locked into the same old, same old, And I mean
Speaker 1: I do it all the time. On the flip side.
Speaker 1: I'll tell one quick story. Hold on, hold on one second.
Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure that's the buck that you could have
Speaker 1: waved at me across that river. By the way, when
Speaker 1: you when you killed him. We heard you guys celebrating. Really. Yeah.
Speaker 1: When I went to get my buck that I shot,
Speaker 1: I could wave that one of your cameraman up on
Speaker 1: the hillside. Are you serious? I didn't know that. No, Joe,
Speaker 1: my buddy was actually uh piece and out of meal
Speaker 1: there across the river when you guys were cheering about
Speaker 1: your buck. Are you serious? Yeah? And I was like, hey,
Speaker 1: can you guys pan that camera down and not show
Speaker 1: these landmarks? Yeah? I tried. I tried on the on
Speaker 1: the video when I saw that, because I was like,
Speaker 1: no freaking way. I think you can see me glassing
Speaker 1: at one of your videos. I remember seeing other hunters,
Speaker 1: so I probably saw you. Yeah. I definitely saw other
Speaker 1: hunters when I was up on that ridge. Yeah, it's hilarious.
Speaker 1: One of them was mere one of them, I think
Speaker 1: about it. I do remember Minnesota plate because you have
Speaker 1: Minnesota plates. Yeah, so that that was a while hunt
Speaker 1: because it was covered in people. It was an opener hunt.
Speaker 1: I went out. I think I killed on the second
Speaker 1: day of the season. I can't remember, because you killed
Speaker 1: that was on the third day. Yeah, you killed the
Speaker 1: morning that I was tracking my buck. I think, Um,
Speaker 1: but I I shoulder shot a velvet buck out there
Speaker 1: and got like no penetration, and I was like, son
Speaker 1: of a bitch, like this is this is not going
Speaker 1: to work out well. But you know how it is
Speaker 1: out there. I went out the next morning and my
Speaker 1: buddy killed up the river. My other buddy killed down
Speaker 1: the river, and I was glassen just to see before
Speaker 1: I went to spot and stock that dear because I
Speaker 1: or to blood trail, I'm sorry, And I saw a
Speaker 1: freaking coyote like six hundred yards away run over to
Speaker 1: something and drop his head down, and I'm like, no way.
Speaker 1: And I just watched the first kyote find my buck,
Speaker 1: and I walked out there and he was laying there dead,
Speaker 1: and you guys were up on the freaking hill. That's hilarious. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's so funny. I didn't even know that. I didn't
Speaker 1: never know that that was true. Yeah, that's so hilarious. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we got a little excited about that one. Yeah, you probably. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I can imagine the screams were heard from a while
Speaker 1: aways away. The quality out there, I mean, it's different now.
Speaker 1: You know when I when I first started hunting, that
Speaker 1: s about the first time I found it. That was
Speaker 1: there was there were like fifteen bucks that were visible there.
Speaker 1: They were all shooters, like like unreal, and it's not
Speaker 1: the same that the secrets out. But even then, now
Speaker 1: now I've seen it switch where you know, they used
Speaker 1: to be so visible, now they're not, but they're there.
Speaker 1: So instead of just like glassing wide open stuff and
Speaker 1: what they you know, like they go walk along the
Speaker 1: river and they fight, Like Nope, now you see these
Speaker 1: little pockets of timber and you see them like working
Speaker 1: the edge and browsing and like you see this the
Speaker 1: behavior is different, but they're still there. So it's like,
Speaker 1: you know, like the tactic that you had when it
Speaker 1: was easy not so much anymore, but they're still in play.
Speaker 1: You just gotta figure out like now now they're like
Speaker 1: there's too many freaking dudes on this river bottom. Yeah.
Speaker 1: When I when we were there, it was pretty overwhelming
Speaker 1: with the amount of people. And so that's an important
Speaker 1: part of that that whole experience for me too. It's
Speaker 1: like it was like everywhere we went, it was like
Speaker 1: we're seeing these people. And then when we saw a
Speaker 1: big buck finally one of the nights, and then we
Speaker 1: decided to bail from that spot. That was a hard
Speaker 1: That was a hard decision to make because we had
Speaker 1: seen a nice funny they didn't end up being as
Speaker 1: big as the one I ended up getting lucky enough
Speaker 1: to get eyes on. But it was like to pull
Speaker 1: away from one that you knew was like a no brainer,
Speaker 1: like that's a that's a bucket I would commit some
Speaker 1: days too. And that's another thing. I mean, I think
Speaker 1: that's one thing that I feel like as as I've
Speaker 1: got more experience, I've gotten more interested into a little bit.
Speaker 1: Is like if I do start to find that and
Speaker 1: it and it depends certain situations are different, but it's
Speaker 1: like if you start to see like a tendency where like, oh,
Speaker 1: I'm starting to see these bigger bucks, that's when I
Speaker 1: will start holding out a little bit more. I wouldn't
Speaker 1: say that I and that can be that can be
Speaker 1: super like a very bad decision in some situations too,
Speaker 1: because it's easy to be like, you know, this is
Speaker 1: the standard that I'm going for him, and all of
Speaker 1: a sudden, you've spent way too much time trying to
Speaker 1: find that and that that that's hard too, But um,
Speaker 1: but I have had I've had had a lot of
Speaker 1: fun and had learned a lot of things. Actually this
Speaker 1: is completely this is a mule deer hunting. But I
Speaker 1: hunted the same buck, which is the first time I've
Speaker 1: ever done that. I hunted the same buck for like
Speaker 1: seven days in New Mexico last year, and it was
Speaker 1: like one of the most fun most memorable experience, definitely
Speaker 1: one of the most memorable experiences that I've ever had
Speaker 1: without shooting a deer. And that was like just because
Speaker 1: it was fun to watch how and now it's invisible
Speaker 1: because it's ration where you get a lot of visibility,
Speaker 1: but just watching how he was hiding from other hunters
Speaker 1: because he picked up on the patterns of what everybody
Speaker 1: else was doing, it was it really helped for white
Speaker 1: tail hunting too, because it's just like man like sometimes
Speaker 1: it right under your nose. Like one of the times
Speaker 1: that we lost him for a couple of days, he
Speaker 1: was actually just tucked right up against the road in
Speaker 1: this little valley and it's just like had had we
Speaker 1: kept and that's there's another thing. It's like that's a
Speaker 1: situation where you keep doing the same thing. And we
Speaker 1: had lost him for like a day day and a half,
Speaker 1: maybe two, maybe almost two days, we decided to go
Speaker 1: in a different route, hit a different angle, and it's
Speaker 1: like there is land right up in a spot where
Speaker 1: nobody could see him. And it's just like, had we
Speaker 1: never made that change, had we kept going to our
Speaker 1: same glassing spot, we would have never found him again.
Speaker 1: And it's just so funny how change makes such a
Speaker 1: big difference. You know. It's amazing how often when you
Speaker 1: leave the road or the access from a way that
Speaker 1: people usually don't what you run into mild A prime
Speaker 1: example of that because is people want to glass them
Speaker 1: from their truck if they if they can, you know,
Speaker 1: and those deer figure that out so quickly, and so
Speaker 1: instead of being seven miles in a lot of times
Speaker 1: there's three yards in and just over the hill and
Speaker 1: not in the night. Yeah, not a nice basin that
Speaker 1: you can glass. They do it all the time. I've
Speaker 1: never seen anything so consistent, like everywhere I go, this
Speaker 1: is something else that I try to do, and it
Speaker 1: kind of helps with that, like find the thick spot
Speaker 1: and go to it, and it's like what's everybody else doing?
Speaker 1: Like where are these parking areas? Where is the you
Speaker 1: know where? Where how are people accessing? And how are
Speaker 1: people mostly hunting and then how can I do something different? Well,
Speaker 1: this situation was easy. We were hiking to the top
Speaker 1: of the mountain every morning and glass and from the top,
Speaker 1: and every single hunter that we saw was driving and
Speaker 1: glassing from the road. And it's like like you can
Speaker 1: easily take one look at the map and say, well,
Speaker 1: I can't see like at least fifty bare minimum of
Speaker 1: this whole range being at the bottom. And it's just
Speaker 1: so crazy, like how you can look at that tendency
Speaker 1: and use that to your advantage, and like that can
Speaker 1: be done anywhere. And I said, I definitely notice it
Speaker 1: in elk hunting. Turkey hunting probably the most where you
Speaker 1: can easily find a trend, like are people calling a
Speaker 1: budge maybe with turkeys, maybe without the same thing? Am
Speaker 1: I hearing a bunch of bugles? Or am I hearing
Speaker 1: a bunch of guys pull up and you know, crack
Speaker 1: on a call, roll out a box caller, crystal call.
Speaker 1: It's like that's the case. Maybe I tone it back
Speaker 1: a little bit, and I feel like just finding that
Speaker 1: tendency doing something different is is just something I always
Speaker 1: like to try to keep in the back of my
Speaker 1: mind too, because it's really helped especially in situations like that.
Speaker 1: I didn't kill the buff. I blew both stocks that
Speaker 1: I made that I got closed, but heart breaking. But
Speaker 1: that's that's what happens mostly when you spot in stock
Speaker 1: meal deer. Two quick questions before we wrapped us up.
Speaker 1: The first one just what's what's the hardest state you've
Speaker 1: ever hunted? What's the one where you're like, man, the
Speaker 1: white tails in this state kick my ass. I mean,
Speaker 1: I hate to say that because then people get a
Speaker 1: chip on their shoulder. Um say it. Anyway. The one
Speaker 1: that the one that we struggled with the most was
Speaker 1: that Georgia plant that I was I don't remember says before.
Speaker 1: We've been talking along enough time that I can't remember
Speaker 1: if that was on here or not. But I was
Speaker 1: with my friend Keith and we're hunting and Georgia and
Speaker 1: we just struggled and we eventually got on them, but
Speaker 1: it was just a struggle on. With that being said,
Speaker 1: I think that I've had a hard time in any East,
Speaker 1: Like you just run down the line of Appalachian mountains,
Speaker 1: any state that's touching those, I've had. I've had big
Speaker 1: timber Eastern big timber is with hills or mountains, whatever
Speaker 1: you wanna call it. That is where I've I truly
Speaker 1: enjoy it though like I probably like it and I'm
Speaker 1: was drawn to it is anywhere just because I do
Speaker 1: know it's going to kick my ass and I I
Speaker 1: feel like physically I'm capable, but mentally I'm not there.
Speaker 1: And that's what I like. It's like I can go
Speaker 1: run around on the mountains and have a blast, get
Speaker 1: hell of a workout every time, but then also just
Speaker 1: like challenging myself and when I get done with those
Speaker 1: hunts that the mental part of it is like tough.
Speaker 1: Your brain is like fried. So I'd say anywhere eastern
Speaker 1: in the Appalachian Mountains or anything that's foothill touching it.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's all that's all tough stuff, which I
Speaker 1: love it. What last question, what's the dumbest thing you've
Speaker 1: seen a big buck do that wasn't an Iowa buck?
Speaker 1: Which one where you just killed one and you're like,
Speaker 1: I cannot believe he just did that. Okay, there's there's
Speaker 1: definitely gonna be something good here. Um, shoot, what is
Speaker 1: the dumbest thing? I think? To look at your wall
Speaker 1: of inspiration? Just different, just different, But one I mean,
Speaker 1: there's been there's been some. The bumping ones are always
Speaker 1: interesting to me, but I understand why they do it.
Speaker 1: Um the one Okay, here's one. And I don't not
Speaker 1: to like make this buck out to be a fool,
Speaker 1: because I don't think he was. But in in New York,
Speaker 1: this buck had a dope pinned to the road or
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, pinned to a fence line, and the road
Speaker 1: was really close. We saw him from the road. He's
Speaker 1: with this dough, big punk too, like by far the
Speaker 1: biggest thing we had seen in the whole area, like
Speaker 1: for days, this base six. I think up to this
Speaker 1: point we had seen, you know, just a basket rack buck.
Speaker 1: So we see this thing with a dough and he's
Speaker 1: defending another buck and his position based off where he
Speaker 1: was in relation to that paved road. It's like it
Speaker 1: made sense, but only when they were betted, because as
Speaker 1: soon as he stand up, he was in the wide open.
Speaker 1: So he made he made that decision, which wasn't really
Speaker 1: the end of the world, because, like I said, once
Speaker 1: they betted down, you couldn't see him. But we started
Speaker 1: I lost track of them because they betted down, climbed
Speaker 1: a tree, got eyes on him again when he stood
Speaker 1: up and actually bred the dough, and then I got
Speaker 1: down and started to make a stock on him, and
Speaker 1: when he when he okay, So this is this is
Speaker 1: where it gets kind of interesting and where he made
Speaker 1: some bad decisions and I made some good decision that
Speaker 1: just worked out. I was watching Dylan who was filming,
Speaker 1: and he was up in that tree that I had
Speaker 1: spotted him from. So he's off to my left, the
Speaker 1: bucks kind of straight in front of me, and I'm
Speaker 1: going down the timber or it wasn't at timber edge.
Speaker 1: It was like a fence row edge. On the other
Speaker 1: side of it was the private The public land line
Speaker 1: was this fence row. So I'm kind of walking right down,
Speaker 1: you know, my side of the fence on the public
Speaker 1: The wind is coming from that fence line to my left,
Speaker 1: and the sun is setting over that fence row as well,
Speaker 1: so shadows. And he stands up with that dough. I
Speaker 1: realized this my opportunity to start cutting distance fast because
Speaker 1: I can see his antlers, and as I make in
Speaker 1: my moods, he's all of a sudden, I didn't realize
Speaker 1: what it was at the time, but he starts running
Speaker 1: towards me like just bounding like afraid, like something spook him. Well,
Speaker 1: a vehicle had driven past alerted him, and he takes
Speaker 1: off running towards me. Well, as he's doing that, I
Speaker 1: had enough time, and I had a spot picked out
Speaker 1: in the shadows that I just went right for that.
Speaker 1: Tucked down in there, got low crouch and covered my
Speaker 1: eyes and my face with my bow cam. And this
Speaker 1: is where he made a pretty where he let the
Speaker 1: dog get the best of them. He started thinking he
Speaker 1: knew that there was something wrong there, but he didn't
Speaker 1: know what it was, and because he never saw me move,
Speaker 1: he just started to eventually let it go, and he
Speaker 1: eventually started looking back at that dough. He started to
Speaker 1: circle down wind of either me or the dough, I'm
Speaker 1: not sure, because either way, he was putting the wind
Speaker 1: in his butt and he was starting to make a
Speaker 1: move out into that tall grass and he and he
Speaker 1: eventually just kept looking towards that dough, and I let
Speaker 1: him do it enough to where he started to really
Speaker 1: trust me. And then I drew somewhere in between. And
Speaker 1: when he looked the last time, I literally stood up
Speaker 1: and I could have been standing in the you know,
Speaker 1: wide open on the fairway. It's like he could have
Speaker 1: saw me so easily, and I just stood up and
Speaker 1: shot him at twenty yards and he just looked was
Speaker 1: looking the other way, and like that. That was the
Speaker 1: dumbest That was the dumbest thing. But like any time
Speaker 1: you get a big buck with the bed bedded with
Speaker 1: the dough, it doesn't matter if he's an io or
Speaker 1: if he's in the hardest you know, pressured area in
Speaker 1: the country. Like he's gonna get foolish, he's gonna let
Speaker 1: his guard down into me. It's not as much about
Speaker 1: the buck making that mistake, it's about you taking an
Speaker 1: advantage of his foolishness. And if you can do that,
Speaker 1: that's that's when the best time of the year. I
Speaker 1: mean no, if you can bow hunt and you can
Speaker 1: get eyes on a buck with the dough, that's the
Speaker 1: best time to hunt in the world. I'd take that
Speaker 1: day any day of the week. Recognize when they they're
Speaker 1: just they're not on their a game, all right, Zach.
Speaker 1: I always love chatting with you, buddy. You know th
Speaker 1: HP fame. Everybody knows where to find you. Thank you
Speaker 1: so much for coming on, man, It's always a pleasure. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I appreciate you having me on. I've had a blast talking.
Speaker 1: That's it for this week, folks, be sure to tune
Speaker 1: in next week for some more white tail goodness. This
Speaker 1: has been Wire to Hunt and I'm your guest host,
Speaker 1: Tony Peterson. As I always, thank you so much for listening,
Speaker 1: and if you're looking for more white tail content, please
Speaker 1: check out the meteor dot com slash wired to see
Speaker 1: a pile of new articles each week from Mark myself
Speaker 1: and a whole slew of white tail addicts, or head
Speaker 1: on over to the wire to Hunt YouTube channel to
Speaker 1: view the weekly content we put up