1 00:00:12,520 --> 00:00:15,920 Speaker 1: Hey, Brack. Okay, this is Brack Costin. I've known him. 2 00:00:16,440 --> 00:00:18,759 Speaker 1: Do you know how long we've known each other, Breck. 3 00:00:18,800 --> 00:00:21,920 Speaker 2: It's probably been close to twenty years at this point, no. 4 00:00:21,960 --> 00:00:26,079 Speaker 1: More, because I was like thirty thirty one, maybe even 5 00:00:26,160 --> 00:00:28,760 Speaker 1: younger anyway, so easily, No, I think it's twenty five. 6 00:00:29,800 --> 00:00:33,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I've never I've never been with time. 7 00:00:33,080 --> 00:00:36,920 Speaker 1: And yeah, I think I was like in my early thirties. 8 00:00:36,920 --> 00:00:39,199 Speaker 1: All right, So this is Breck Costin. I've known him 9 00:00:39,200 --> 00:00:42,920 Speaker 1: for years because a group of friends of mine had 10 00:00:42,920 --> 00:00:47,519 Speaker 1: found this Freedom course in LA and it was transformative 11 00:00:47,520 --> 00:00:49,400 Speaker 1: for them, and I liked the name Freedom, and I 12 00:00:49,440 --> 00:00:52,280 Speaker 1: was like at a crossroads with a relationship. Yeah, Breck, 13 00:00:52,280 --> 00:00:54,480 Speaker 1: I think it was earlier. It was like in my twenties. Yeah, 14 00:00:55,360 --> 00:00:57,160 Speaker 1: and I was. So that was like a long time ago, 15 00:00:57,360 --> 00:01:00,640 Speaker 1: maybe almost thirty years ago, and you could probably go 16 00:01:00,680 --> 00:01:02,320 Speaker 1: back and look at the dates. I probably still my 17 00:01:02,360 --> 00:01:05,000 Speaker 1: Freedom notebook upstairs. And I went to this like three 18 00:01:05,040 --> 00:01:08,720 Speaker 1: day immersive experience at Breck and uh learned a language 19 00:01:08,720 --> 00:01:10,759 Speaker 1: a lot of people use now that I actually know 20 00:01:11,000 --> 00:01:13,240 Speaker 1: is because of me, which we'll get into. And Breck's 21 00:01:13,280 --> 00:01:15,280 Speaker 1: sort of like oblivious to all that, like commercial stuff 22 00:01:15,280 --> 00:01:17,640 Speaker 1: in ways, which I like because like he never knows 23 00:01:17,680 --> 00:01:19,440 Speaker 1: how many times I use his words, but I do 24 00:01:19,480 --> 00:01:22,440 Speaker 1: always give him credit, but like other people do also. 25 00:01:22,640 --> 00:01:29,120 Speaker 1: So Breck is a life coach slash non traditional therapist 26 00:01:29,200 --> 00:01:32,759 Speaker 1: but not like a doctor. And we've known each other 27 00:01:32,760 --> 00:01:37,280 Speaker 1: for years and we talk fairly regularly, and he's a 28 00:01:37,319 --> 00:01:39,319 Speaker 1: great guy and he's had a big life, and I 29 00:01:39,360 --> 00:01:41,039 Speaker 1: wanted to have him on here. I think you came 30 00:01:41,080 --> 00:01:42,520 Speaker 1: on years ago when I started. 31 00:01:43,120 --> 00:01:46,160 Speaker 2: No I never came on as a podcast. We did 32 00:01:46,280 --> 00:01:47,440 Speaker 2: you and you had your talk show? 33 00:01:47,680 --> 00:01:49,880 Speaker 1: You didn't, I think we did, but maybe yeah we 34 00:01:49,920 --> 00:01:52,240 Speaker 1: did in the very beginning, one hundred. 35 00:01:52,040 --> 00:01:54,920 Speaker 2: Percent telling you you know, it's way too long now 36 00:01:55,080 --> 00:01:57,400 Speaker 2: I can't remember apparently, yeah, I. 37 00:01:57,360 --> 00:02:00,440 Speaker 1: Mean one hundred percent. In the very very beginning we talked. 38 00:02:01,000 --> 00:02:04,320 Speaker 1: So you're in LA and we spoke the other day, 39 00:02:04,880 --> 00:02:07,920 Speaker 1: and I thought that hopefully you'd want to come on more, 40 00:02:07,960 --> 00:02:10,160 Speaker 1: but I'll sort of drive and I wanted to just 41 00:02:10,160 --> 00:02:13,520 Speaker 1: like bring up different concepts that we've discussed over the 42 00:02:13,600 --> 00:02:15,800 Speaker 1: years that jump off the page to me, and also 43 00:02:15,919 --> 00:02:18,280 Speaker 1: that you probably don't even know that I've discussed the 44 00:02:18,320 --> 00:02:20,520 Speaker 1: people and have jumped off the page with them. So 45 00:02:20,639 --> 00:02:23,440 Speaker 1: like you talk about a million things, but like probably 46 00:02:23,440 --> 00:02:25,400 Speaker 1: the things you wouldn't even think would be the biggest thing. 47 00:02:25,880 --> 00:02:27,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's true. I mean, you know, people will take 48 00:02:27,760 --> 00:02:30,120 Speaker 2: away what they think is really relevant and resonates. And 49 00:02:30,160 --> 00:02:32,080 Speaker 2: I think we're, you know, as a as a coach 50 00:02:32,280 --> 00:02:35,240 Speaker 2: or just as as a person who's contributing, You're you're 51 00:02:35,280 --> 00:02:39,400 Speaker 2: always looking for different portals and different metaphors and different language, music, 52 00:02:39,440 --> 00:02:42,040 Speaker 2: anything you can that you think will get something from 53 00:02:42,080 --> 00:02:45,240 Speaker 2: your mouth to someone's ear that will be useful, right, 54 00:02:45,320 --> 00:02:48,480 Speaker 2: like digestible and people respond to you know, two different 55 00:02:48,560 --> 00:02:53,080 Speaker 2: different image imagery, different music, different rhythms, different metaphors. So 56 00:02:53,080 --> 00:02:55,679 Speaker 2: it's kind of figuring out what's what will translate for 57 00:02:55,720 --> 00:02:56,280 Speaker 2: each person. 58 00:02:56,880 --> 00:02:58,720 Speaker 1: So I guess we'll go with the biggest ticket item. 59 00:02:58,760 --> 00:03:00,600 Speaker 1: I was going to do Charming, which we'll do after 60 00:03:00,600 --> 00:03:03,320 Speaker 1: because they really surprises people on the charming. I had 61 00:03:03,320 --> 00:03:06,359 Speaker 1: a podcast called Charming is a Red Flag and it 62 00:03:06,400 --> 00:03:08,919 Speaker 1: was it was very It had a lot of impact, 63 00:03:08,960 --> 00:03:11,359 Speaker 1: which was shocking because it really people. It spoke to 64 00:03:11,360 --> 00:03:13,480 Speaker 1: people because charming is used as something positive. But let 65 00:03:13,520 --> 00:03:15,840 Speaker 1: me just park that for one second. Okay, let's talk 66 00:03:15,840 --> 00:03:20,200 Speaker 1: about noise. Okay, many people use the term noise as 67 00:03:20,200 --> 00:03:23,480 Speaker 1: a result of me commercializing the term noise as a 68 00:03:23,480 --> 00:03:26,520 Speaker 1: result of learning it from you at the Freedom course, 69 00:03:26,560 --> 00:03:30,080 Speaker 1: and I took it to another level. You talked about 70 00:03:30,280 --> 00:03:33,040 Speaker 1: food noise and money noise, and different people have different 71 00:03:33,120 --> 00:03:38,120 Speaker 1: noise or like talking about someone's particularly noisy in that area. 72 00:03:38,680 --> 00:03:42,560 Speaker 1: And I wrote a book called Naturally Thin about food noise. 73 00:03:43,120 --> 00:03:45,720 Speaker 1: But I've seen people, I've seen on social media other 74 00:03:45,720 --> 00:03:47,520 Speaker 1: people talk about it. They don't even realize that it 75 00:03:47,560 --> 00:03:49,760 Speaker 1: came from me and that it came from you. So 76 00:03:50,480 --> 00:03:53,720 Speaker 1: just talk. Let's talk about noise for a little bit, okay. 77 00:03:53,840 --> 00:03:56,840 Speaker 2: So and I like that, you know, I love that. 78 00:03:57,040 --> 00:03:59,240 Speaker 2: As you said, you know, I kind of think of 79 00:03:59,280 --> 00:04:03,040 Speaker 2: myself as me the scenes, and not to diminish any 80 00:04:03,040 --> 00:04:04,960 Speaker 2: other coaches or any other people who are in the 81 00:04:05,160 --> 00:04:07,680 Speaker 2: working in you know, transformational world or in a self 82 00:04:07,680 --> 00:04:11,360 Speaker 2: help world, spiritual world. But I just think the contract 83 00:04:11,560 --> 00:04:15,480 Speaker 2: really is is that you're you're a source, right, you know, 84 00:04:15,680 --> 00:04:18,080 Speaker 2: you're not the you know, you're not not that you 85 00:04:18,080 --> 00:04:21,479 Speaker 2: can't be the mouthpiece for what you're delivering, but you're 86 00:04:21,520 --> 00:04:23,520 Speaker 2: actually the source, and you want other people to be 87 00:04:23,560 --> 00:04:26,280 Speaker 2: able to deliver that from their own particular expression, right, 88 00:04:26,320 --> 00:04:27,680 Speaker 2: and they make it their own, they take it to 89 00:04:27,680 --> 00:04:30,159 Speaker 2: a whole other level. So that's always exciting for me 90 00:04:30,240 --> 00:04:33,200 Speaker 2: when you know, like as you take noise and kind 91 00:04:33,200 --> 00:04:35,800 Speaker 2: of disseminate it so it becomes part of the vernacular, 92 00:04:36,120 --> 00:04:38,640 Speaker 2: part of the culture. Right. I like that. I like 93 00:04:38,800 --> 00:04:40,440 Speaker 2: watching that those kinds of things happen. 94 00:04:40,720 --> 00:04:43,120 Speaker 1: They say the best relationships are the rock and the stars. 95 00:04:43,120 --> 00:04:45,719 Speaker 1: So you have many stars that you talk to, but 96 00:04:46,040 --> 00:04:48,280 Speaker 1: like you're they're the star. You're the rock, Like you're 97 00:04:48,320 --> 00:04:49,000 Speaker 1: behind the. 98 00:04:48,880 --> 00:04:53,480 Speaker 2: Scenes and understanding. Like any great team, you understand your position, 99 00:04:53,880 --> 00:04:55,680 Speaker 2: you know, and you play your position. And I think 100 00:04:55,720 --> 00:04:57,440 Speaker 2: a lot of times where it's conflicted, and I'll get 101 00:04:57,440 --> 00:05:00,560 Speaker 2: into noise even from this context, think for a lot 102 00:05:00,600 --> 00:05:03,440 Speaker 2: of people that they're they're they're so wanting to play 103 00:05:03,440 --> 00:05:06,520 Speaker 2: a position that they're just not designed for and it's 104 00:05:06,920 --> 00:05:09,800 Speaker 2: and it's just and then and I consider that to 105 00:05:09,839 --> 00:05:11,640 Speaker 2: be one of the you know, when you're trying to 106 00:05:11,680 --> 00:05:13,960 Speaker 2: compete where you're not competitive, it is it is a 107 00:05:14,000 --> 00:05:17,200 Speaker 2: source of suffering. Wow, it is. And people will spend 108 00:05:17,279 --> 00:05:19,520 Speaker 2: years and years and years trying to squeeze them into 109 00:05:19,520 --> 00:05:22,040 Speaker 2: something that they just weren't designed to do. And so, 110 00:05:22,760 --> 00:05:25,920 Speaker 2: and that goes right into noise as well. So noise 111 00:05:26,000 --> 00:05:29,560 Speaker 2: is this very basically, it's your really your internal commentary 112 00:05:29,960 --> 00:05:32,360 Speaker 2: that's good or bad. Now, this is what people think, 113 00:05:32,400 --> 00:05:35,240 Speaker 2: they oh, good noise is good. I'm saying no, no, 114 00:05:35,320 --> 00:05:37,560 Speaker 2: good noise. You're trying to keep around. Bad noise you're 115 00:05:37,560 --> 00:05:40,400 Speaker 2: trying to get rid of. So it has you either way. 116 00:05:40,960 --> 00:05:42,520 Speaker 2: It holds you hostage either way. 117 00:05:42,600 --> 00:05:45,360 Speaker 1: So you're saying, like, the absence of noise is real, 118 00:05:45,400 --> 00:05:47,280 Speaker 1: true piece. It doesn't matter if it's good or bad. 119 00:05:47,520 --> 00:05:50,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's where freedom and peace is right. And if 120 00:05:50,000 --> 00:05:52,200 Speaker 2: you look at when you're the most brilliant, you're when 121 00:05:52,240 --> 00:05:55,080 Speaker 2: you look at where your essence is being fully expressed, 122 00:05:55,080 --> 00:05:57,920 Speaker 2: and it's the essential you, it's when there's no noise. 123 00:05:58,240 --> 00:06:00,000 Speaker 2: So that's a singer singing in front of the sick 124 00:06:00,080 --> 00:06:02,440 Speaker 2: two thousand people, and they're not trying to remember their lyrics. 125 00:06:02,680 --> 00:06:06,400 Speaker 2: They're not remembering they're connected to the audience. They're expressing themselves. 126 00:06:06,400 --> 00:06:09,080 Speaker 2: They're they don't have like oh man, I'm crushing it 127 00:06:09,400 --> 00:06:12,400 Speaker 2: or I'm you know, or this when badly. 128 00:06:12,720 --> 00:06:15,640 Speaker 1: Meaning like even if it's family noise and you're managing it, 129 00:06:15,680 --> 00:06:17,560 Speaker 1: you're still having to deal with that. You're thinking about 130 00:06:17,560 --> 00:06:20,719 Speaker 1: it positive, like I've got it under control. That's noisy too, 131 00:06:20,839 --> 00:06:21,800 Speaker 1: and bad noises. 132 00:06:22,000 --> 00:06:25,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, so management, the management of something is even more. 133 00:06:25,560 --> 00:06:28,600 Speaker 2: I kind of think of this as like a feral tiger, Like, 134 00:06:28,640 --> 00:06:30,839 Speaker 2: you know, your noise can be running rampant and just 135 00:06:30,920 --> 00:06:34,520 Speaker 2: eating anything that's on the African plane, right, feral, and 136 00:06:34,520 --> 00:06:36,760 Speaker 2: then when it comes up a solution to a problem, Okay, 137 00:06:36,760 --> 00:06:40,720 Speaker 2: I'll manage this. I'll just quester this animal, this ferocious animal, 138 00:06:40,760 --> 00:06:44,960 Speaker 2: and that just as bad. Right. It's literally like this 139 00:06:45,000 --> 00:06:47,320 Speaker 2: is a Siegfreedo and roy of noise is they know 140 00:06:47,360 --> 00:06:49,839 Speaker 2: how to work with white tigers, you know. They they 141 00:06:49,960 --> 00:06:52,680 Speaker 2: made millions of dollars working with with this, you know, 142 00:06:52,800 --> 00:06:56,320 Speaker 2: So it's a it's understanding. It's understanding how to work 143 00:06:56,520 --> 00:06:59,080 Speaker 2: with you know, your own, you know animal. I'll talk 144 00:06:59,080 --> 00:07:01,760 Speaker 2: about survival noise in that regard as well, but it 145 00:07:01,800 --> 00:07:05,080 Speaker 2: really is understanding that when you are truly there is 146 00:07:05,120 --> 00:07:07,760 Speaker 2: when there's no noise. So that's that's when you like, 147 00:07:08,120 --> 00:07:11,160 Speaker 2: in this conversation that we're having, if you and I 148 00:07:11,160 --> 00:07:13,160 Speaker 2: were going, God, I hope this is going well. I 149 00:07:13,160 --> 00:07:15,160 Speaker 2: wonder if this is going all right or our internal 150 00:07:15,240 --> 00:07:16,880 Speaker 2: dialogue was like, I'm not sure what to say. 151 00:07:17,240 --> 00:07:20,560 Speaker 1: It's noisy, Yeah, it'd be like a noise. Well, that's 152 00:07:20,560 --> 00:07:23,280 Speaker 1: funny because in the book Naturally Thin, the way that 153 00:07:23,320 --> 00:07:24,920 Speaker 1: I took it to the next level, which I forgot 154 00:07:24,960 --> 00:07:28,000 Speaker 1: until this exact moment, is I said that with people 155 00:07:28,000 --> 00:07:31,600 Speaker 1: with food, they wanted to turn their noise into a voice, 156 00:07:31,600 --> 00:07:33,240 Speaker 1: like you're having just a conversation. I'm about to have 157 00:07:33,280 --> 00:07:35,000 Speaker 1: a meal, and this what I'm gonna have versus I 158 00:07:35,080 --> 00:07:37,840 Speaker 1: was bad, I was good. I ate so much so 159 00:07:37,880 --> 00:07:39,640 Speaker 1: I have to beat myself up and eat more or 160 00:07:39,640 --> 00:07:43,360 Speaker 1: I have to eat nothing like that's managing. That's noisy, 161 00:07:43,400 --> 00:07:46,040 Speaker 1: but just being like okay, chocolate I wanted, and I'm 162 00:07:46,280 --> 00:07:48,120 Speaker 1: you know, next, I'm doing this like have it be 163 00:07:48,200 --> 00:07:51,120 Speaker 1: like a voice, which to me seemed calmer. 164 00:07:51,880 --> 00:07:53,920 Speaker 2: Well it's not only calmer, but you know that it's 165 00:07:54,000 --> 00:07:57,320 Speaker 2: it's I see this in phases bethany where you kind 166 00:07:57,320 --> 00:08:00,600 Speaker 2: of like are first of all recognizing it's coming out 167 00:08:00,600 --> 00:08:03,600 Speaker 2: of the ethers. You're recognizing if as an internal dialogue 168 00:08:03,640 --> 00:08:05,720 Speaker 2: rather that's just your personality or that's just the way 169 00:08:05,760 --> 00:08:09,560 Speaker 2: it is. So you're seeing some distinction between oh, this 170 00:08:09,640 --> 00:08:12,040 Speaker 2: isn't me, this is the noise in my head. But 171 00:08:12,120 --> 00:08:14,560 Speaker 2: most people associate the noise in their head with them. 172 00:08:15,200 --> 00:08:17,800 Speaker 2: And when you are your essential you, there's no noise, 173 00:08:18,160 --> 00:08:21,120 Speaker 2: and it's a strange phenomenon, like, oh, when I'm truly 174 00:08:21,160 --> 00:08:24,000 Speaker 2: being myself, it's when there's no noise that's happening. 175 00:08:24,480 --> 00:08:26,640 Speaker 1: That's the most meditative state, is being. 176 00:08:26,600 --> 00:08:29,640 Speaker 2: Just just there, right, yeah, So, and I think in 177 00:08:29,680 --> 00:08:32,160 Speaker 2: a world attempting that right to get to that. So, 178 00:08:32,880 --> 00:08:34,880 Speaker 2: I call that the thing you just mentioned, the cherry 179 00:08:34,920 --> 00:08:37,479 Speaker 2: pie I made it up as a cherry pye conflict. 180 00:08:37,800 --> 00:08:39,679 Speaker 2: And that is like, okay, you got to you got 181 00:08:39,679 --> 00:08:43,240 Speaker 2: to lunch, you got to dinner. And the waiter says, okay, 182 00:08:43,240 --> 00:08:46,960 Speaker 2: would you like dessert? And it says with a cherry pie. 183 00:08:47,200 --> 00:08:49,439 Speaker 2: Person goes no, you know, no, I'm not gonna have 184 00:08:49,440 --> 00:08:53,120 Speaker 2: any cherry pie, and so and and he goes ask again, 185 00:08:53,160 --> 00:08:54,719 Speaker 2: do you want any cherry pie? And Vera says no, 186 00:08:55,440 --> 00:08:57,719 Speaker 2: I don't want a cherry pie. And so throughout the 187 00:08:57,760 --> 00:08:58,959 Speaker 2: day you're like, hey, you know I didn't eat that 188 00:08:59,000 --> 00:09:00,440 Speaker 2: cherry pie. I didn't eat the cherry pie at all. 189 00:09:00,520 --> 00:09:02,040 Speaker 2: You know, you didn't have the cherry pie. But you're 190 00:09:02,080 --> 00:09:05,599 Speaker 2: still being dominated by cherry pie, when whether you ate 191 00:09:05,640 --> 00:09:06,719 Speaker 2: it or not, you. 192 00:09:06,679 --> 00:09:08,400 Speaker 1: Should have just had, yeah, take a bite, a couple 193 00:09:08,360 --> 00:09:10,839 Speaker 1: of bites of it. Yeah, that's funny. 194 00:09:10,600 --> 00:09:11,720 Speaker 2: Whether you ate it or not. 195 00:09:11,880 --> 00:09:12,360 Speaker 1: That's noisy. 196 00:09:12,440 --> 00:09:14,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's what noise looks like. 197 00:09:14,720 --> 00:09:17,560 Speaker 1: Well, also, I want to tell everyone that, and we 198 00:09:17,559 --> 00:09:19,680 Speaker 1: can move to something else because I think they maybe 199 00:09:19,760 --> 00:09:22,120 Speaker 1: get it. But like that when Breck introduced it to me, 200 00:09:22,160 --> 00:09:23,760 Speaker 1: because we're talking about thirty years ago, but I have 201 00:09:23,760 --> 00:09:25,959 Speaker 1: a crazy memory for this stuff. You've taught so many 202 00:09:26,000 --> 00:09:28,320 Speaker 1: different things and talked about so many different things. But 203 00:09:28,400 --> 00:09:30,560 Speaker 1: I want to like take people back to what I 204 00:09:30,679 --> 00:09:34,760 Speaker 1: learned that He talked about how each person has different 205 00:09:35,160 --> 00:09:39,480 Speaker 1: Someone could have religion, noise, food, noise, money, noise, age, noise, vanity, noise, 206 00:09:39,520 --> 00:09:41,080 Speaker 1: like it could be anything. It could be all the 207 00:09:41,080 --> 00:09:44,120 Speaker 1: seven Deadly sins. It's just you could be noisy about something. 208 00:09:45,000 --> 00:09:46,760 Speaker 1: It could it could be anything, right, Like, it could 209 00:09:46,760 --> 00:09:48,679 Speaker 1: be the Emperor has no clothes or I'm not I'm 210 00:09:49,000 --> 00:09:51,480 Speaker 1: even someone has billion dollars. They could still think they're 211 00:09:51,520 --> 00:09:52,160 Speaker 1: going to lose it all. 212 00:09:52,400 --> 00:09:54,240 Speaker 2: Oh no, no, that happens. I mean, have a lot 213 00:09:54,320 --> 00:09:55,960 Speaker 2: of clients just like you know, who have you know, 214 00:09:56,240 --> 00:09:58,000 Speaker 2: storty amount of money, and there they can be the 215 00:09:58,000 --> 00:09:58,720 Speaker 2: most terrified. 216 00:09:59,200 --> 00:10:02,000 Speaker 1: Okay, So that that's overall. Noise can be different for 217 00:10:02,080 --> 00:10:03,000 Speaker 1: every single person. 218 00:10:03,120 --> 00:10:06,600 Speaker 2: But the goal it doesn't mean that noise doesn't produce. 219 00:10:07,720 --> 00:10:10,320 Speaker 2: It doesn't mean that it can't produce, meaning like you 220 00:10:10,360 --> 00:10:13,840 Speaker 2: can make a ton of money in a certain area. Right. 221 00:10:14,360 --> 00:10:17,720 Speaker 2: But the thing is is that it mostly where you 222 00:10:17,760 --> 00:10:20,080 Speaker 2: have no noise is where you're the most created, most 223 00:10:20,280 --> 00:10:25,040 Speaker 2: most evolved, most accomplished, most you know, most evolutionary. Right. 224 00:10:25,480 --> 00:10:28,320 Speaker 1: Well, that's interesting, Okay, So this is why that's interesting 225 00:10:28,360 --> 00:10:32,480 Speaker 1: to me because usually the thing that the person's most 226 00:10:32,520 --> 00:10:35,280 Speaker 1: obsessed with, you've called it, their plates of wounding, the 227 00:10:35,280 --> 00:10:38,000 Speaker 1: thing that they're thinking about the most, is the thing 228 00:10:38,080 --> 00:10:41,320 Speaker 1: that isn't coming naturally to them. And I also think 229 00:10:41,360 --> 00:10:43,880 Speaker 1: that like between sleep and wake is when all my 230 00:10:43,960 --> 00:10:46,199 Speaker 1: best ideas come, and when I'm the most relaxed, is 231 00:10:46,200 --> 00:10:49,839 Speaker 1: when my amazing like ideas they just come to solve 232 00:10:49,840 --> 00:10:53,719 Speaker 1: a problem that I've had forever. And that's quiet, it's 233 00:10:53,800 --> 00:10:54,679 Speaker 1: literally quiet. 234 00:10:55,440 --> 00:10:58,880 Speaker 2: Well, yeah, you can't you can't solve you know, certainly, 235 00:10:59,520 --> 00:11:02,520 Speaker 2: you know you can can't be creative or innovative or 236 00:11:02,559 --> 00:11:06,520 Speaker 2: generative when fear or shame is dominating. Right, It's it's 237 00:11:06,520 --> 00:11:09,880 Speaker 2: a it's a threat, right, So why I say it 238 00:11:09,880 --> 00:11:14,080 Speaker 2: can it can produce? It means that someone can can 239 00:11:14,240 --> 00:11:17,880 Speaker 2: start like they're there, can start start their mote or 240 00:11:17,920 --> 00:11:19,680 Speaker 2: their engine. In terms of I don't want to be 241 00:11:19,760 --> 00:11:21,800 Speaker 2: like that. I'm going to change my circumstances. I'm going 242 00:11:21,840 --> 00:11:26,120 Speaker 2: to drive something, right, So, like the difference between ambition 243 00:11:26,200 --> 00:11:29,160 Speaker 2: and invention is you can start something from a place 244 00:11:29,200 --> 00:11:31,719 Speaker 2: of noise, right, you can. It can kick off from 245 00:11:31,720 --> 00:11:33,480 Speaker 2: place like I don't want to be like my dad. 246 00:11:33,480 --> 00:11:34,520 Speaker 2: I don't want to be like my mom, and I 247 00:11:34,559 --> 00:11:36,040 Speaker 2: don't want to live like this. I'm wanting to do 248 00:11:36,120 --> 00:11:39,360 Speaker 2: something from a reactive place. But in order for it 249 00:11:39,400 --> 00:11:41,960 Speaker 2: to fulfill and move, it's got to move into an 250 00:11:41,960 --> 00:11:45,560 Speaker 2: evolutionary creative place where it's not driven drop driven from 251 00:11:45,559 --> 00:11:49,560 Speaker 2: that that source. So we're all we're always looking at 252 00:11:49,720 --> 00:11:52,200 Speaker 2: at you know, what is it that? What is it 253 00:11:52,240 --> 00:11:54,559 Speaker 2: that has us? And what is it that we have 254 00:11:55,240 --> 00:11:57,720 Speaker 2: right and what is holding us hostage? And what do 255 00:11:57,800 --> 00:12:00,760 Speaker 2: I actually have? So today, you know, we're just riddled 256 00:12:00,800 --> 00:12:04,480 Speaker 2: with anxiety, right, And anxiety is I mean just kind 257 00:12:04,480 --> 00:12:07,680 Speaker 2: of globally anxiety is trying to get control of something 258 00:12:07,720 --> 00:12:10,960 Speaker 2: of no control over right, and so people come up 259 00:12:11,000 --> 00:12:12,679 Speaker 2: with tons of solutions to that. 260 00:12:13,600 --> 00:12:15,680 Speaker 1: Like you're you're saying, because you talk about this with 261 00:12:15,760 --> 00:12:20,520 Speaker 1: charm too, anxiety has us and you say that charm 262 00:12:20,679 --> 00:12:24,840 Speaker 1: has people too, Like, so go into like how these 263 00:12:24,840 --> 00:12:28,240 Speaker 1: things are having us, Like, we're going to that because 264 00:12:28,280 --> 00:12:29,920 Speaker 1: I think that's interesting. Most people don't say that. 265 00:12:30,520 --> 00:12:34,280 Speaker 2: Okay, So when I say someone can be productive, I'm 266 00:12:34,320 --> 00:12:39,120 Speaker 2: saying that they don't know that. People don't distinguish out enough. 267 00:12:40,120 --> 00:12:41,640 Speaker 2: You know, what is it, you know where they have 268 00:12:41,720 --> 00:12:44,000 Speaker 2: noise and no noise, so it just looks like, oh, 269 00:12:44,280 --> 00:12:47,400 Speaker 2: I if that I'm being manic here, And I'm going, well, no, 270 00:12:47,480 --> 00:12:49,960 Speaker 2: you're actually not being manic there. You know here you're 271 00:12:50,000 --> 00:12:52,920 Speaker 2: pretty freed up. Here you're manic and you're collapsing both 272 00:12:52,920 --> 00:12:56,320 Speaker 2: of those those things. So someone could be have their 273 00:12:56,400 --> 00:12:59,439 Speaker 2: craft just to kind of finish that up. Their craft 274 00:12:59,480 --> 00:13:01,440 Speaker 2: could be Jordan like, they'd be able to play the 275 00:13:01,440 --> 00:13:04,800 Speaker 2: guitar brilliantly. They can do that, but their career is noisy, 276 00:13:05,000 --> 00:13:07,640 Speaker 2: so they never fulfill in their career. But they could 277 00:13:07,679 --> 00:13:10,600 Speaker 2: be the best, the best guitarist in the world, and 278 00:13:10,640 --> 00:13:12,719 Speaker 2: people understand, Well, if I'm really great at this out come, 279 00:13:12,760 --> 00:13:16,160 Speaker 2: this isn't fulfilling. And someone can be mediocre in their 280 00:13:16,240 --> 00:13:19,560 Speaker 2: craft but really freed up in their career, right, meaning 281 00:13:19,600 --> 00:13:22,200 Speaker 2: they have all this room to make mistakes, to fail, 282 00:13:22,320 --> 00:13:26,400 Speaker 2: to lose, to move right. And so you know, watching, 283 00:13:26,559 --> 00:13:29,240 Speaker 2: you know, watching where things produce and how they produce, 284 00:13:29,679 --> 00:13:33,160 Speaker 2: you know, is my entire kind of work, right, Like, 285 00:13:33,200 --> 00:13:35,160 Speaker 2: what is what is it that has someone be effective, 286 00:13:35,520 --> 00:13:38,280 Speaker 2: you know in a particular way. So the question that 287 00:13:38,320 --> 00:13:44,119 Speaker 2: you're asking is, I consider identities. I look at identities, 288 00:13:44,120 --> 00:13:45,600 Speaker 2: and the identity is a way you want to be 289 00:13:45,640 --> 00:13:48,240 Speaker 2: seen or a way you do not want to be seen. Right, 290 00:13:48,640 --> 00:13:50,960 Speaker 2: So I want to I might want to be seen 291 00:13:51,000 --> 00:13:52,719 Speaker 2: as smart. I can't be seen as stupid. I want 292 00:13:52,720 --> 00:13:54,120 Speaker 2: to be seen as a tractor. I can't be seen 293 00:13:54,120 --> 00:13:56,200 Speaker 2: as ugly. I obt to see this as powerful. They 294 00:13:56,240 --> 00:13:57,200 Speaker 2: can't be seen as weak. 295 00:13:57,600 --> 00:13:59,600 Speaker 1: I feel like you used to call that image. Also 296 00:13:59,760 --> 00:14:00,720 Speaker 1: is that are you saying that's. 297 00:14:00,600 --> 00:14:03,080 Speaker 2: The same, Well I did, it was? It was an 298 00:14:03,400 --> 00:14:06,880 Speaker 2: image has a much broader context, okay, right, But the 299 00:14:06,960 --> 00:14:10,040 Speaker 2: identity is very specific. You know, we walk around, you know, 300 00:14:10,200 --> 00:14:12,360 Speaker 2: wanting me seen in a particular way. And if we're 301 00:14:12,400 --> 00:14:17,520 Speaker 2: not seen in a particular way, we get reactive, threatened, disconsolate, 302 00:14:17,600 --> 00:14:21,120 Speaker 2: something like that. So I always consider that identities have you, 303 00:14:22,160 --> 00:14:25,720 Speaker 2: qualities and characteristics you have. So this is there to 304 00:14:25,760 --> 00:14:29,600 Speaker 2: your point about charming. So you could have an identity 305 00:14:29,840 --> 00:14:32,800 Speaker 2: of loyal like you need to be seen as a 306 00:14:32,840 --> 00:14:36,280 Speaker 2: loyal person. That's an identity, right, So you're loyal to 307 00:14:36,320 --> 00:14:39,120 Speaker 2: a fault, s you'll stay in situations long after you should. 308 00:14:39,560 --> 00:14:42,840 Speaker 2: You don't get out fast enough. You ally yourself to 309 00:14:42,880 --> 00:14:45,640 Speaker 2: things you shouldn't because you've got a dysfunction, so you're 310 00:14:45,640 --> 00:14:48,640 Speaker 2: not seeing things correctly. So loyal to a fault is problematic. 311 00:14:49,120 --> 00:14:52,920 Speaker 1: Yep, agreed. And that's almost like the obligation to a fault. 312 00:14:52,920 --> 00:14:55,240 Speaker 1: When people constantly have to go, they always have to 313 00:14:55,280 --> 00:14:58,440 Speaker 1: show up. It feels disingenuous, like they're doing it to 314 00:14:58,560 --> 00:14:59,280 Speaker 1: check the box. 315 00:15:00,200 --> 00:15:04,720 Speaker 2: So with regards to loyalty as a characteristic equality, that's 316 00:15:04,800 --> 00:15:08,040 Speaker 2: different than an identity. I mean you have loyalty, Loyalty 317 00:15:08,080 --> 00:15:11,000 Speaker 2: doesn't have you. So you can be loyal to the 318 00:15:11,040 --> 00:15:16,080 Speaker 2: appropriate situations, you can exit situations appropriately, and you can 319 00:15:16,120 --> 00:15:18,360 Speaker 2: be disloyal if you have loyal I mean, I'm not 320 00:15:18,400 --> 00:15:20,200 Speaker 2: going to be loyal to someone who's saying, you know, 321 00:15:20,560 --> 00:15:23,160 Speaker 2: an asshole or someone who's doing this, right, But you 322 00:15:23,240 --> 00:15:26,040 Speaker 2: can't be disloyal if loyalty to a fault has you. 323 00:15:26,360 --> 00:15:28,440 Speaker 2: So that is true for everything. So it could be 324 00:15:28,800 --> 00:15:38,280 Speaker 2: so everything to be positive or negative depending on the context. 325 00:15:47,360 --> 00:15:52,280 Speaker 1: Okay, so talk about obligation, because everybody that's listening is 326 00:15:52,320 --> 00:15:54,840 Speaker 1: doing a bunch of things they don't actually want to 327 00:15:54,880 --> 00:15:58,800 Speaker 1: be doing. And I do many things for other people, 328 00:15:58,800 --> 00:16:02,120 Speaker 1: but I don't do anything anywhere that I don't want 329 00:16:02,160 --> 00:16:04,800 Speaker 1: to do. And I think that's jarring, and I. 330 00:16:05,320 --> 00:16:08,000 Speaker 2: That's revolution that's this almost is like you now we're 331 00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:10,480 Speaker 2: talking kind of like graduate school in terms of self help, 332 00:16:10,600 --> 00:16:16,200 Speaker 2: just because it really is such a revolutionary concept because 333 00:16:16,200 --> 00:16:19,680 Speaker 2: it looks completely selfish. Yes, because someone says, but what 334 00:16:19,760 --> 00:16:22,920 Speaker 2: looks what looks one way to the culture might be 335 00:16:23,120 --> 00:16:24,840 Speaker 2: entirely different to what's actually true. 336 00:16:25,280 --> 00:16:25,400 Speaker 1: Right. 337 00:16:25,520 --> 00:16:31,680 Speaker 2: So if someone is saying, oh, you you know, you 338 00:16:31,760 --> 00:16:34,200 Speaker 2: never do anything, you know, obligatorily, and I go and 339 00:16:34,280 --> 00:16:36,840 Speaker 2: I say, yeah, I don't, and they go, well, that's 340 00:16:36,880 --> 00:16:40,440 Speaker 2: just completely selfish. I go, well, actually know it's selfless 341 00:16:40,880 --> 00:16:44,240 Speaker 2: because who wants someone around who's doing something as they're 342 00:16:44,240 --> 00:16:46,040 Speaker 2: a pain in the ass. They're doing it for you. 343 00:16:46,080 --> 00:16:49,200 Speaker 2: They're sanctimonious about it, they're self righteous about it, and 344 00:16:49,240 --> 00:16:52,680 Speaker 2: that's not yielding anything. It's no benefit to any right. 345 00:16:53,280 --> 00:16:56,080 Speaker 1: I don't like when people count who gave a gift 346 00:16:56,080 --> 00:16:58,080 Speaker 1: to give a gift back. I don't want any gifts. 347 00:16:58,320 --> 00:17:01,160 Speaker 1: I have one, no gifts. Gifts giving is literally my 348 00:17:01,240 --> 00:17:04,720 Speaker 1: love language. I don't want any because I'm not giving 349 00:17:04,760 --> 00:17:06,320 Speaker 1: a gift because I want something back or because I 350 00:17:06,359 --> 00:17:07,920 Speaker 1: got something. They have nothing to do with each other, 351 00:17:07,960 --> 00:17:10,320 Speaker 1: and it irritates me when I hear someone, well, can 352 00:17:10,320 --> 00:17:11,760 Speaker 1: you believe they came to the wedding and they only 353 00:17:11,800 --> 00:17:15,040 Speaker 1: did whatever? Who gives a shit that? So I hate 354 00:17:15,040 --> 00:17:18,120 Speaker 1: that shit. I hate counting. That's the opposite of being 355 00:17:18,160 --> 00:17:18,880 Speaker 1: a good person. 356 00:17:19,480 --> 00:17:22,480 Speaker 2: An obligation can can just like you said that, it 357 00:17:22,560 --> 00:17:27,800 Speaker 2: can trans can translate to many many situations. It can 358 00:17:27,840 --> 00:17:31,320 Speaker 2: go to it can go to gift giving. It can 359 00:17:31,359 --> 00:17:35,720 Speaker 2: go to emotional context like I love you. I didn't 360 00:17:35,720 --> 00:17:38,320 Speaker 2: hear it back, right, You're obligated to say it back, 361 00:17:38,320 --> 00:17:40,160 Speaker 2: so it can be I agree with that too. That's 362 00:17:40,160 --> 00:17:43,080 Speaker 2: so ridiculous. It can be on emotional context, it can 363 00:17:43,119 --> 00:17:45,920 Speaker 2: be in a physical context, obligation can translate to many 364 00:17:45,920 --> 00:17:49,359 Speaker 2: many different situations. So obligation, you know, to live a 365 00:17:49,400 --> 00:17:53,480 Speaker 2: life obligation free, right, meaning you know, I'm only going 366 00:17:53,520 --> 00:17:57,320 Speaker 2: to do things that I want to do, and I'm 367 00:17:57,320 --> 00:17:59,320 Speaker 2: only going to do things that I say I'm gonna 368 00:17:59,320 --> 00:18:02,240 Speaker 2: do or I'm not going to do them, right. And 369 00:18:02,640 --> 00:18:03,960 Speaker 2: you know, like when someone goes, well, what if your 370 00:18:04,000 --> 00:18:05,639 Speaker 2: wife asks you to do something to me, I go, 371 00:18:05,760 --> 00:18:07,760 Speaker 2: that's usually my pleasure. You know, I want to do 372 00:18:07,800 --> 00:18:10,480 Speaker 2: something for it. It's not an obligation right, right. 373 00:18:10,560 --> 00:18:12,960 Speaker 1: But you may not totally want to do that thing, 374 00:18:13,000 --> 00:18:14,280 Speaker 1: but you want to do like. 375 00:18:14,600 --> 00:18:16,000 Speaker 2: But you want to do that for them because you 376 00:18:16,000 --> 00:18:16,480 Speaker 2: know what it'll. 377 00:18:16,359 --> 00:18:18,920 Speaker 1: Like Yes, I'm saying yes exactly. 378 00:18:19,040 --> 00:18:22,040 Speaker 2: So that's for people get stuck. And you know, in 379 00:18:21,640 --> 00:18:25,080 Speaker 2: my marriage, I mean I think it's been really generous 380 00:18:25,119 --> 00:18:27,320 Speaker 2: in that way. Like if I say I don't want 381 00:18:27,320 --> 00:18:29,880 Speaker 2: to do exit like something simple like Jene goes, oh, 382 00:18:30,560 --> 00:18:32,520 Speaker 2: the dishes are the in the sink. Yeah, I said 383 00:18:32,520 --> 00:18:34,520 Speaker 2: I didn't want to do them. She goes, Okay, so 384 00:18:34,640 --> 00:18:36,920 Speaker 2: it's it's gonna be as simple as that, and then 385 00:18:36,920 --> 00:18:39,880 Speaker 2: they get done you know down the road right where 386 00:18:39,920 --> 00:18:41,640 Speaker 2: it's kind of something you want to do, but it's 387 00:18:41,640 --> 00:18:43,240 Speaker 2: like literally simple. 388 00:18:43,280 --> 00:18:45,600 Speaker 1: Well no if she lets that go a couple of times, 389 00:18:45,640 --> 00:18:47,720 Speaker 1: and it's like says to you like it would be 390 00:18:47,800 --> 00:18:49,639 Speaker 1: nice if you did them, but doesn't give you damage 391 00:18:49,640 --> 00:18:51,520 Speaker 1: next time you might want to do them. It's kind 392 00:18:51,520 --> 00:18:54,560 Speaker 1: of like this weekend, I was with someone that I 393 00:18:54,640 --> 00:18:58,119 Speaker 1: care about and I was exhausted, and I just I 394 00:18:58,119 --> 00:19:00,359 Speaker 1: am always activated, but I'm when I do a lot 395 00:19:00,400 --> 00:19:03,240 Speaker 1: of things that involve other people, I really need to restore. 396 00:19:03,280 --> 00:19:05,560 Speaker 1: And it could be like organizing sweaters, or like looking 397 00:19:05,560 --> 00:19:07,520 Speaker 1: at lip gloss or just staring at the TV. I 398 00:19:07,600 --> 00:19:10,960 Speaker 1: just need to be alone ish, or like wandering in 399 00:19:11,000 --> 00:19:12,639 Speaker 1: a house with someone else there, but not like a 400 00:19:12,760 --> 00:19:15,359 Speaker 1: you know, in an obligation mode. Yes, so this person 401 00:19:15,400 --> 00:19:17,080 Speaker 1: is an extrovert and I'm more of an introvert. And 402 00:19:17,119 --> 00:19:20,760 Speaker 1: they said, my cousin's in town and I was in 403 00:19:20,800 --> 00:19:22,920 Speaker 1: the Hampton's and do you want to go for lunch 404 00:19:22,960 --> 00:19:25,399 Speaker 1: with him? Now? I really didn't want to go, but 405 00:19:25,480 --> 00:19:27,280 Speaker 1: I really care about this person who's doing a lot 406 00:19:27,280 --> 00:19:30,920 Speaker 1: of things for me and and really caring. And I said, 407 00:19:31,520 --> 00:19:33,239 Speaker 1: I first just want to know if you care if 408 00:19:33,280 --> 00:19:34,439 Speaker 1: I go or not, Like I just want to know 409 00:19:34,520 --> 00:19:35,560 Speaker 1: where you stand with it. 410 00:19:35,920 --> 00:19:37,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, that was the question I go to say, is 411 00:19:37,600 --> 00:19:38,479 Speaker 2: this important to you? 412 00:19:38,520 --> 00:19:40,760 Speaker 1: That I go like do you care? Like how much? 413 00:19:40,760 --> 00:19:43,000 Speaker 1: On a one to ten, because often you're not communicating 414 00:19:43,320 --> 00:19:45,360 Speaker 1: and you just say yes and then you resent it 415 00:19:45,520 --> 00:19:47,280 Speaker 1: or you say no and they resent that you said no, 416 00:19:47,359 --> 00:19:49,000 Speaker 1: even though they didn't really care. But it was the 417 00:19:49,080 --> 00:19:51,800 Speaker 1: way that it was discussed. I said, listen, you, if 418 00:19:51,800 --> 00:19:54,040 Speaker 1: it's really important to you, then we should discuss that. 419 00:19:54,240 --> 00:19:55,679 Speaker 1: I wasn't even ready to go yet. I just was 420 00:19:55,720 --> 00:19:57,919 Speaker 1: ready to say, if it's really important, you should discuss that. 421 00:19:58,440 --> 00:20:02,000 Speaker 1: I on my own vacuum don't want to go, but like, 422 00:20:02,040 --> 00:20:04,400 Speaker 1: if it's really important to you, because as a family member, 423 00:20:04,440 --> 00:20:06,680 Speaker 1: that's a discussion. And then he was like it's really 424 00:20:06,720 --> 00:20:08,520 Speaker 1: not and I was like, okay, great, I really don't 425 00:20:08,520 --> 00:20:11,280 Speaker 1: want to go. And then later he was gone for 426 00:20:11,359 --> 00:20:13,399 Speaker 1: like three hours and he was worried that it was 427 00:20:13,480 --> 00:20:16,320 Speaker 1: too long, and that became a I'm like, no, like 428 00:20:16,400 --> 00:20:18,960 Speaker 1: not to make you feel bad. You could go for 429 00:20:19,000 --> 00:20:21,359 Speaker 1: five hours like I you know, I want eventually I 430 00:20:21,359 --> 00:20:22,920 Speaker 1: want you to come back and not be But it's 431 00:20:22,920 --> 00:20:24,840 Speaker 1: like that kind of stuff. It like frees you up 432 00:20:24,920 --> 00:20:27,359 Speaker 1: because you could really go on the wrong road. You 433 00:20:27,400 --> 00:20:28,720 Speaker 1: could go and resent it. 434 00:20:29,040 --> 00:20:31,840 Speaker 2: First of all, you're always looking to maintain like you're 435 00:20:32,160 --> 00:20:35,280 Speaker 2: now talking relationship stuff, so you're talking, so you always 436 00:20:35,320 --> 00:20:39,320 Speaker 2: are looking to maintain the affinity of the connection, the 437 00:20:39,400 --> 00:20:43,280 Speaker 2: love connection and the relationship. That's kind of like the intention, right, 438 00:20:43,640 --> 00:20:47,080 Speaker 2: and in between fights and disagreements and you don't feel 439 00:20:47,080 --> 00:20:49,920 Speaker 2: appreciated or whatever people's issues are, you know, that can 440 00:20:49,960 --> 00:20:54,080 Speaker 2: be that can that can get threatened that affinity, right, 441 00:20:54,119 --> 00:20:57,199 Speaker 2: So those kinds of conversations of like, well is this 442 00:20:57,240 --> 00:21:00,359 Speaker 2: important to you? No, it's not, okay, then I'm not 443 00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:03,520 Speaker 2: going to go, and it maintains the affinity in the 444 00:21:03,600 --> 00:21:07,040 Speaker 2: relationship rather than I'm just not going right. 445 00:21:07,480 --> 00:21:10,359 Speaker 1: No, you're right, or like going and resenting. I do 446 00:21:10,560 --> 00:21:12,880 Speaker 1: ask a lot if something's important, because someone one said 447 00:21:12,880 --> 00:21:14,400 Speaker 1: to me years ago, Dennis, who you knew, He said, 448 00:21:14,400 --> 00:21:16,399 Speaker 1: if it's important to you, it's important to me. He 449 00:21:16,440 --> 00:21:18,360 Speaker 1: didn't act that way, but I liked the sentence. 450 00:21:18,600 --> 00:21:20,400 Speaker 2: I do too, and I like and I like that too. 451 00:21:20,440 --> 00:21:24,280 Speaker 2: So it's obligation. So you live a life obligation free, right, 452 00:21:24,440 --> 00:21:26,920 Speaker 2: So you take away the victim. That's really what you're doing. 453 00:21:26,920 --> 00:21:29,240 Speaker 2: Because a victim is somewhere something or someone. 454 00:21:29,160 --> 00:21:31,640 Speaker 1: Smarter like the marthing, or someone's. 455 00:21:31,359 --> 00:21:33,280 Speaker 2: Doing something to you. You take away the victim in 456 00:21:33,320 --> 00:21:36,960 Speaker 2: the conversation, right, and then we so get into those 457 00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:40,680 Speaker 2: habits of acting like victims and situations and and living 458 00:21:40,800 --> 00:21:44,280 Speaker 2: life implication free. So obligation and implication free are like 459 00:21:44,800 --> 00:21:47,280 Speaker 2: implication free means you know what it means about you. 460 00:21:47,320 --> 00:21:48,879 Speaker 2: If I do this, I'm a good person. If I 461 00:21:48,880 --> 00:21:51,159 Speaker 2: don't do this, I'm a bad person. Right, And people 462 00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:52,959 Speaker 2: live mostly obligatorily. 463 00:21:53,160 --> 00:21:54,760 Speaker 1: No, they want and they check the butt, they want 464 00:21:54,800 --> 00:21:57,159 Speaker 1: the scorecard. It's counting, which is the opposite of a 465 00:21:57,160 --> 00:21:58,880 Speaker 1: good relationship, is counting anything. 466 00:21:59,200 --> 00:22:02,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, you're looking to live a life you know, obligation free, 467 00:22:02,880 --> 00:22:06,640 Speaker 2: implication free, and you're more generous, you're more creative, you're 468 00:22:06,640 --> 00:22:10,040 Speaker 2: more connected, you're more communication and you have less noise 469 00:22:10,080 --> 00:22:10,560 Speaker 2: in your head. 470 00:22:10,760 --> 00:22:14,399 Speaker 1: Bravo. So we've accomplished. Okay, let's get into charm. So 471 00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:16,000 Speaker 1: tell me about charming. I'm eating a little bite of 472 00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:18,920 Speaker 1: my snack because I have very breakfast. Let's talk about charming. 473 00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:22,600 Speaker 2: So you know, when someone says and usually charm is 474 00:22:22,640 --> 00:22:25,560 Speaker 2: associated with you know, men or masculine. Let's call it 475 00:22:25,600 --> 00:22:26,679 Speaker 2: that way, you know, can take it. 476 00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:28,720 Speaker 1: Wow? Yeah, right, so explain that. 477 00:22:29,080 --> 00:22:32,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, So you know, we don't usually say the woman's charming. 478 00:22:32,760 --> 00:22:35,160 Speaker 2: We will use a different term for that. Oh god, 479 00:22:35,240 --> 00:22:38,840 Speaker 2: she's really gracious, she's really sweet, you know, sweet like 480 00:22:38,880 --> 00:22:42,480 Speaker 2: all kinds of different things. But that's associated culturally with 481 00:22:42,520 --> 00:22:45,720 Speaker 2: a man, right, and it's usually associated in a really 482 00:22:46,440 --> 00:22:51,040 Speaker 2: favorable way. Right now. The thing about charm is that 483 00:22:51,240 --> 00:22:55,720 Speaker 2: it's and people people don't like this, But I considered 484 00:22:55,760 --> 00:22:58,520 Speaker 2: myself quite charming, you know, early on, So I figured 485 00:22:58,640 --> 00:23:01,240 Speaker 2: I can get away with talking about this, right even 486 00:23:01,280 --> 00:23:03,760 Speaker 2: I've got you know, it's like someone like who's who's 487 00:23:03,960 --> 00:23:05,880 Speaker 2: If you've got the wound, you can really talk about 488 00:23:05,880 --> 00:23:07,119 Speaker 2: the wound, right. 489 00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:10,560 Speaker 1: So you probably were really charming. That's why you know 490 00:23:10,600 --> 00:23:13,359 Speaker 1: about it so well? Yeah, because you would just guys, 491 00:23:13,400 --> 00:23:16,720 Speaker 1: Breck was like a hotshot data models, party like a 492 00:23:16,840 --> 00:23:20,520 Speaker 1: rock star, came from money, trust fun like big swinging dick. 493 00:23:20,720 --> 00:23:25,119 Speaker 1: The whole thing, had a life. Life humbled you. You 494 00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:27,760 Speaker 1: probably were a charming motherfucker with that money and the 495 00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:29,840 Speaker 1: models and the looks and all that shit in New 496 00:23:29,920 --> 00:23:32,479 Speaker 1: York City partying in La got it? Okay? 497 00:23:32,920 --> 00:23:34,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, So I mean so I feel like I have 498 00:23:34,800 --> 00:23:37,240 Speaker 2: a strong sense of this right now. You can also 499 00:23:37,280 --> 00:23:39,760 Speaker 2: have a strong sense of how, you know how the 500 00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:44,400 Speaker 2: narcissistic wound that's associated with charming right which is very 501 00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:46,320 Speaker 2: you know, it's a it's a painful thing for people 502 00:23:46,359 --> 00:23:48,119 Speaker 2: to say, but that's what it is. Why is it? 503 00:23:48,160 --> 00:23:53,160 Speaker 2: Because it if you're a man who's incredibly charming, you 504 00:23:53,400 --> 00:23:56,359 Speaker 2: are you create an addiction of meeting that kind of 505 00:23:56,400 --> 00:23:58,679 Speaker 2: attention and that kind of feedback. Do you know you 506 00:23:58,720 --> 00:24:00,840 Speaker 2: go to a party, you go to this and something 507 00:24:00,880 --> 00:24:01,919 Speaker 2: has to be said about you. 508 00:24:02,280 --> 00:24:04,480 Speaker 1: Okay, So I want to tell everybody because this was 509 00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:08,720 Speaker 1: I talked about this. It's the guy who sometimes not you, 510 00:24:08,800 --> 00:24:11,320 Speaker 1: but sometimes the charming is the hey Dan, how's your 511 00:24:11,359 --> 00:24:13,960 Speaker 1: golf game? And like real Gregario is then at home 512 00:24:14,119 --> 00:24:16,760 Speaker 1: like treating his wife like shit, or I've had that scenario. 513 00:24:17,240 --> 00:24:19,760 Speaker 1: I've also had this scenario where the guy's like the bro, 514 00:24:20,520 --> 00:24:24,439 Speaker 1: real bro, real friend, you know, just hugging everybody and 515 00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:26,639 Speaker 1: good looking and everybody likes him and girls like it, 516 00:24:26,680 --> 00:24:28,600 Speaker 1: and he's a life of the party and like the 517 00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:31,720 Speaker 1: peacock like and you're right, because it is an addiction, 518 00:24:31,840 --> 00:24:34,000 Speaker 1: they just go to it right away. It works so well, 519 00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:35,240 Speaker 1: and go ahead. 520 00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:39,680 Speaker 2: So it becomes really your go to in as a man, 521 00:24:40,119 --> 00:24:42,400 Speaker 2: and and that's and you and it gets narrowed down 522 00:24:42,440 --> 00:24:46,560 Speaker 2: so that becomes mostly your entire or you're you're organized 523 00:24:46,600 --> 00:24:49,760 Speaker 2: around what you're driven by, you know, getting feedback for 524 00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:52,320 Speaker 2: how charming you are, needing to seduce all the time, 525 00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:54,399 Speaker 2: whether it's men or women. You're just you're like an 526 00:24:54,440 --> 00:24:56,399 Speaker 2: animal and is constantly generating that. 527 00:24:56,880 --> 00:24:59,479 Speaker 1: You're singing the karaoke song, You're doing the shots, You're 528 00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:01,960 Speaker 1: a charming, the mom you got, everybody loves you. 529 00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:05,400 Speaker 2: Whatever's required. If what's required is be completely quiet, what's 530 00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:08,119 Speaker 2: required to be totally entertaining, what's required to be this 531 00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:12,000 Speaker 2: You're you're you're managing whatever you need to do to 532 00:25:12,080 --> 00:25:17,800 Speaker 2: get that feedback. Wow, so and and it and it 533 00:25:17,840 --> 00:25:21,080 Speaker 2: becomes an addiction like anything else. That's why age can 534 00:25:21,119 --> 00:25:24,320 Speaker 2: be really challenging for people as they you know, as 535 00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:26,159 Speaker 2: they fall and they don't have the same skills, they 536 00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:30,320 Speaker 2: don't do the same resources that they had. So what 537 00:25:30,440 --> 00:25:33,399 Speaker 2: I all say to women, and women will say this 538 00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:38,320 Speaker 2: right as well, is if you see someone who's particularly charming, 539 00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:39,439 Speaker 2: run for the hills. 540 00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:42,960 Speaker 1: I literally called the podcast charming is a red flag. 541 00:25:43,359 --> 00:25:46,639 Speaker 2: Yeah, so run for the hills because in two years 542 00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:50,320 Speaker 2: you're gonna hate this guy. You're gonna hate, You're gonna go, 543 00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:51,600 Speaker 2: I'm gonna kill this guy. 544 00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:54,800 Speaker 1: The very thing that you found so fascinating that the stick, 545 00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:57,200 Speaker 1: this bit is gonna make you sick, it. 546 00:25:57,040 --> 00:25:58,840 Speaker 2: Is, and in two years you're gonna be out of 547 00:25:58,880 --> 00:26:02,159 Speaker 2: your mind. Right. So I say I say this to 548 00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:04,399 Speaker 2: women when women go, you know, I'm in marrying my 549 00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:07,119 Speaker 2: yoga instructor. I go. Just because he can put his 550 00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:09,919 Speaker 2: you know, legs around his head doesn't mean that he's 551 00:26:09,960 --> 00:26:13,080 Speaker 2: got emotional flexibility. Don't confuse those two, right. I'm not 552 00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:16,040 Speaker 2: saying he doesn't. I'm saying that those are different phenomenas. 553 00:26:16,040 --> 00:26:19,240 Speaker 2: There's a different photomen be meean spiritual evolution, creative evolution, 554 00:26:19,359 --> 00:26:23,800 Speaker 2: emotional evolution, right, and these things so a lot of times, 555 00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:27,199 Speaker 2: and that can be a highly seductive thing for you know, 556 00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:32,080 Speaker 2: and and dating charm. So I'm saying most men, other 557 00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:36,160 Speaker 2: men who so who have integrity, you know, a sense 558 00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:37,960 Speaker 2: of themselves and a sense of you know, kind of 559 00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:40,000 Speaker 2: a moral compass in terms of who they are and 560 00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:42,080 Speaker 2: what they are, and they don't need all that feedback, 561 00:26:42,119 --> 00:26:46,080 Speaker 2: they have a stronger sense to themselves. They can have charm, 562 00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:49,520 Speaker 2: So meaning you can have charmed from a context of integrity, right, 563 00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:53,919 Speaker 2: But if charm is your whole story, that's where it's problematic. 564 00:26:53,960 --> 00:26:55,960 Speaker 1: It's owning you, it's wearing you. 565 00:26:56,320 --> 00:26:58,919 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's what it has your own habit. So 566 00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:01,960 Speaker 2: it doesn't mean you can't have charm. It just can't. 567 00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:03,440 Speaker 2: It's got to be like anything. You've got to be 568 00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:04,880 Speaker 2: able to pick it up and put it down and 569 00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:07,160 Speaker 2: use it, and it's got to be more more mobile 570 00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:10,760 Speaker 2: in play in all that way. And most men who 571 00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:14,440 Speaker 2: have integrity and have a great deal of respect dismiss charm. 572 00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:17,080 Speaker 2: They'll see other men and they'll they'll dismiss it because 573 00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:19,840 Speaker 2: they can smell like it's it's self centered, it's narcissistic, 574 00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:22,280 Speaker 2: it's it's superficial, it doesn't. 575 00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:25,160 Speaker 1: Have enough weight love it wow. 576 00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:27,320 Speaker 2: And so you've got to be interested. And this is 577 00:27:27,359 --> 00:27:30,399 Speaker 2: always the game that you know, for me, loss is 578 00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:33,080 Speaker 2: always the game that you're willing to lose what you 579 00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:37,080 Speaker 2: consider maybe your most important asset for the possibility of 580 00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:37,840 Speaker 2: your own evolution. 581 00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:41,480 Speaker 1: Well, it's funny you say that, because the way I 582 00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:44,239 Speaker 1: think of it is things that you're good for and 583 00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:46,760 Speaker 1: things that are good for you. So I used to 584 00:27:47,119 --> 00:27:49,040 Speaker 1: remember friends of our Shannon, et cetera. I used to 585 00:27:49,080 --> 00:27:52,440 Speaker 1: produce events, large scale events, multimillion dollar events, the Grammy's, 586 00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:55,760 Speaker 1: the Emmys, on the Rock, Alcatraz. No one was ever 587 00:27:55,760 --> 00:27:57,440 Speaker 1: better at it than I was. No one you could 588 00:27:57,440 --> 00:27:59,359 Speaker 1: ask the woman who ran all the events at Disney. 589 00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:01,840 Speaker 1: My body line was perfect, my P and L sheet. 590 00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:04,719 Speaker 1: I missed out a detail. I didn't I picked up 591 00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:06,640 Speaker 1: every floral, like every chair. 592 00:28:06,440 --> 00:28:08,520 Speaker 2: Like I mean, yeah, that mad that make perfect sense 593 00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:09,360 Speaker 2: because I'm. 594 00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:13,000 Speaker 1: Sick like so. But I was great for it. It 595 00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:15,800 Speaker 1: wasn't great for me. So I had to be like 596 00:28:15,880 --> 00:28:17,960 Speaker 1: you know, And that's what goes on in my work 597 00:28:18,040 --> 00:28:19,640 Speaker 1: every day. Things that I'm good at, and my whole 598 00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:21,639 Speaker 1: entire team relies on me for all the details in 599 00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:24,360 Speaker 1: the detail of every video and every caption and all 600 00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:26,520 Speaker 1: the weeds because I'm amazing at them, but they're not 601 00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:28,720 Speaker 1: good for me. And it's like a discipline for the 602 00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:31,960 Speaker 1: people around me. Like you guys cannot come to Mommy 603 00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:34,680 Speaker 1: for every single question otherwise I cannot do what I 604 00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:36,520 Speaker 1: need to do in my business. It's not good for me. 605 00:28:37,119 --> 00:28:40,680 Speaker 1: So that's sort of my like cross to bear is 606 00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:44,080 Speaker 1: what I'm good for, but what's not good for me? 607 00:28:44,760 --> 00:28:46,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, and those are those are and they can be 608 00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:50,400 Speaker 2: very different, right they can. They can be very very different. So, 609 00:28:50,640 --> 00:28:54,280 Speaker 2: and that's also understanding what's bankrupt, you know as it 610 00:28:54,320 --> 00:28:57,840 Speaker 2: because because you can be highly productive and have no 611 00:28:58,520 --> 00:29:00,840 Speaker 2: sense of that illution. Yes, do you know what I mean? 612 00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:02,400 Speaker 2: Like you know? I mean you can. You can make 613 00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:04,200 Speaker 2: a billion dollars, you can do all kinds of things, 614 00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:08,000 Speaker 2: and yet your sense of self, your development, you know, 615 00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:11,400 Speaker 2: you're still maintaining the same You're still maintaining the same 616 00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:13,280 Speaker 2: way of being because. 617 00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:14,960 Speaker 1: You do the same exercise at the gym every time. 618 00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:17,120 Speaker 1: My inclination is to solve the problem, is to tell 619 00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:19,600 Speaker 1: you I'm dealing with the situation with this guy or 620 00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:22,200 Speaker 1: with Brin's school, or with work, and go attack and 621 00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:24,760 Speaker 1: produce the problem and use it like a relief effort 622 00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:27,240 Speaker 1: and solve it. But I'm not growing, I'm a feeling. 623 00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:29,600 Speaker 1: I'm not learning. I just know how to like wrap 624 00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:31,960 Speaker 1: it up. And so Millin to my therapist, who you've met, 625 00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:34,000 Speaker 1: will be like, now she's not like a how do 626 00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:36,560 Speaker 1: you feel? But she doesn't really care about me, giving 627 00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:39,320 Speaker 1: her like the news, sports and weather. She wants to 628 00:29:39,400 --> 00:29:41,320 Speaker 1: like get to like what's going on about it? 629 00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:43,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, like what what is the what is the thing 630 00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:46,040 Speaker 2: that you're that you have kind of have to lose 631 00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:48,360 Speaker 2: in order to gain Now, people think that they're going 632 00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:51,760 Speaker 2: to lose their their essential asset, and I'm going no, 633 00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:55,400 Speaker 2: that's an illusion that they The essential asset just moves 634 00:29:55,400 --> 00:29:57,640 Speaker 2: into the foundation of your life. It's no longer in 635 00:29:57,680 --> 00:30:01,320 Speaker 2: the foreground, right, but you have to have that noise 636 00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:03,600 Speaker 2: back to noise. That noise in your head is like 637 00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:08,880 Speaker 2: if you if you introduce a new possibility something and 638 00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:11,200 Speaker 2: I don't care where it's an emotional possibility, like you know, 639 00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:12,840 Speaker 2: I want to be I want to I want to 640 00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:14,640 Speaker 2: be on time I don't know, or I want to 641 00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:16,520 Speaker 2: I want to complete things. I want to what I say, 642 00:30:16,520 --> 00:30:19,120 Speaker 2: I'm going to start a complete whatever you introduce or 643 00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:22,000 Speaker 2: I want to be more compassionate. Whatever you might introduce, 644 00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:25,920 Speaker 2: you also introduce because you wouldn't be introducing that if 645 00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:29,040 Speaker 2: it was something that you didn't have. You're introducing it 646 00:30:29,080 --> 00:30:31,880 Speaker 2: because it's something you don't have that you're wanting, right, 647 00:30:32,360 --> 00:30:35,880 Speaker 2: And so if you're introducing that you're also introducing the loss, 648 00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:38,800 Speaker 2: the loss of well, wait, may I won't I won't 649 00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:40,360 Speaker 2: be able to produce over here, or I won't be 650 00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:43,600 Speaker 2: effective over here, or this might you know, fall apart. 651 00:30:43,800 --> 00:30:45,920 Speaker 2: So that's the fear. That's why when someone says, well, 652 00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:49,080 Speaker 2: most people don't change, they're not wrong, just because what 653 00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:51,840 Speaker 2: it requires to change is huge. 654 00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:54,000 Speaker 1: You mean, like, I'm stopping drinking, so I'm not gonna 655 00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:55,800 Speaker 1: be the life of the party anymore. I'm overweight, I'm 656 00:30:55,840 --> 00:30:58,440 Speaker 1: losing weight. I'm not going to be joevial exactly. 657 00:30:58,560 --> 00:31:01,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, there's that Friends, that episode about fun, and I 658 00:31:01,520 --> 00:31:04,680 Speaker 2: think it's fun Bobby Worth, right, Oh god, Bobby's coming over, 659 00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:06,360 Speaker 2: you know, because he is an alcoholic and he was 660 00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:08,640 Speaker 2: hysterical and now and he's no longer drinking and he's 661 00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:11,440 Speaker 2: not fun anymore, right, which is not accurate. It's not 662 00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:14,280 Speaker 2: you know, lots of people have been sober for years 663 00:31:14,280 --> 00:31:17,240 Speaker 2: who are incredibly entertaining and great and creative at all 664 00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:20,240 Speaker 2: and more productive than ever. So it's not a function 665 00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:23,360 Speaker 2: of that, but it is a function of not being 666 00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:25,920 Speaker 2: afraid to lose. And I think and I look at 667 00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:28,800 Speaker 2: that as one of the major themes of evolution, right, 668 00:31:28,920 --> 00:31:31,240 Speaker 2: that you're willing in some area to you know, to 669 00:31:31,280 --> 00:31:43,240 Speaker 2: lose in a powerful, profound way. 670 00:31:47,120 --> 00:31:50,160 Speaker 1: Okay, so now I have two little things. So the 671 00:31:50,200 --> 00:31:51,640 Speaker 1: two things I want to talk about are something you 672 00:31:51,680 --> 00:31:54,320 Speaker 1: said recently about people don't come batteries are not included 673 00:31:54,600 --> 00:31:57,000 Speaker 1: the way that we start like catastrophizing and thinking about something. 674 00:31:57,000 --> 00:31:59,280 Speaker 1: But they're not this, but they're this, or they're different 675 00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:00,880 Speaker 1: than the last person. And I was with and like, 676 00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:03,640 Speaker 1: and you've said, like battery, people don't come with batteries. 677 00:32:03,640 --> 00:32:06,680 Speaker 1: That's one concept, and then the other one is like 678 00:32:07,440 --> 00:32:09,640 Speaker 1: I don't think this is just like a bit. But 679 00:32:09,760 --> 00:32:11,800 Speaker 1: when I was talking to a writer who works for 680 00:32:11,800 --> 00:32:14,040 Speaker 1: Fortune magazine last night, this woman Diane Brady, and she 681 00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:18,200 Speaker 1: was talking really intimately about the difference between extroverts and 682 00:32:18,280 --> 00:32:20,880 Speaker 1: introverts as it pertains to being a CEO, and she 683 00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:23,640 Speaker 1: was like, I'm an extrovert. She knew who she was, 684 00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:26,680 Speaker 1: and she was like, the pandemic killed me. I was 685 00:32:26,680 --> 00:32:31,200 Speaker 1: like wanting to like go talk to like essential essential worker. Yeah. Yeah, 686 00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:32,920 Speaker 1: she was like I wanted to walk out. And for me, 687 00:32:33,960 --> 00:32:38,120 Speaker 1: I was like I was a in a like blanket. 688 00:32:38,520 --> 00:32:41,440 Speaker 1: I extended the pandemic two years by that behavior like 689 00:32:41,480 --> 00:32:44,080 Speaker 1: it gave me license to keep using it as an 690 00:32:44,080 --> 00:32:46,880 Speaker 1: excuse to never leave the house. So and then she 691 00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:51,600 Speaker 1: was talking about how entrepreneurs introverts are very good entrepreneurs 692 00:32:51,720 --> 00:32:55,960 Speaker 1: because they get really deep and granular and extroverts don't 693 00:32:56,000 --> 00:32:58,560 Speaker 1: have have more difficult time focusing. They may be good 694 00:32:58,560 --> 00:33:00,240 Speaker 1: at knowing a lot of different things, maybe at the 695 00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:03,640 Speaker 1: market about so many different companies and different topics, but 696 00:33:03,680 --> 00:33:05,840 Speaker 1: they don't they have a difficulty focusing. 697 00:33:06,200 --> 00:33:08,440 Speaker 2: I think that's a really use just just to put 698 00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:10,920 Speaker 2: some you know, parentheses around it. I think that's I 699 00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:14,840 Speaker 2: think it's really astute in terms of introverts and extroverts 700 00:33:14,840 --> 00:33:19,120 Speaker 2: that if you look at CEO, someone who's doing all 701 00:33:19,160 --> 00:33:23,240 Speaker 2: the operations and managing all those operations and managing people, yeah, 702 00:33:23,320 --> 00:33:27,400 Speaker 2: you know, they're mostly extroverts. They have that ability visionaries, 703 00:33:27,840 --> 00:33:30,880 Speaker 2: you know, founders, entrepreneurs, they're more introverted. They're like, you know, 704 00:33:30,920 --> 00:33:33,080 Speaker 2: that's a very that's a that's more of a thing. 705 00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:36,080 Speaker 2: They wouldn't be running and managing a bunch of people. 706 00:33:36,360 --> 00:33:39,080 Speaker 2: So that's why when I when I look at you know, 707 00:33:39,480 --> 00:33:43,520 Speaker 2: like when Elon Musk kind of took over twitteratent is 708 00:33:43,560 --> 00:33:47,400 Speaker 2: not his you know, he's an inventor, right. 709 00:33:47,720 --> 00:33:50,400 Speaker 1: And what are you? I'm totally an introvert and people 710 00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:52,840 Speaker 1: are shocked by that, but I can't. I hate managing 711 00:33:52,880 --> 00:33:54,920 Speaker 1: people from the so I'm the same way. I'm a 712 00:33:54,920 --> 00:33:55,760 Speaker 1: complete introvert. 713 00:33:56,360 --> 00:34:00,000 Speaker 2: Okay, interesting, I'm a complete and everybody says, so I'm 714 00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:03,480 Speaker 2: much more like the pandemic. I thrived in the pandemic 715 00:34:03,520 --> 00:34:08,920 Speaker 2: and and zoom became everything. So everybody, even I always say, 716 00:34:08,920 --> 00:34:11,759 Speaker 2: an act of love is that you don't invite me anywhere, right, 717 00:34:11,960 --> 00:34:13,040 Speaker 2: so you. 718 00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:13,640 Speaker 1: Cancel on me? 719 00:34:14,160 --> 00:34:19,280 Speaker 2: Right, So, so all of those that's that's but being creative, generative, 720 00:34:19,560 --> 00:34:22,600 Speaker 2: you know, collaborative and making something happen. Those that's you know, 721 00:34:22,640 --> 00:34:26,120 Speaker 2: that's where I thrive. And you don't want me running 722 00:34:26,160 --> 00:34:26,680 Speaker 2: your company. 723 00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:32,160 Speaker 1: But this woman said that that that they draw upon 724 00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:37,040 Speaker 1: each other like, well, it's interesting though, because I find 725 00:34:37,080 --> 00:34:41,640 Speaker 1: that people. I've had people gravitate towards me because of 726 00:34:41,680 --> 00:34:44,319 Speaker 1: my like the light and the way that I am, 727 00:34:44,440 --> 00:34:47,279 Speaker 1: like my passion, which isn't about being an extrovert, and 728 00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:50,359 Speaker 1: sometimes they'll like dim my light as a result. It's 729 00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:52,200 Speaker 1: kind of a different thing. But I'm thinking who is 730 00:34:52,239 --> 00:34:55,480 Speaker 1: attracted to who introverts are attracted to extroverts or extroverts 731 00:34:55,520 --> 00:34:58,040 Speaker 1: because are two extroverts are not the best combination, right, 732 00:34:58,080 --> 00:34:59,880 Speaker 1: because you can't focus. 733 00:34:59,680 --> 00:35:02,200 Speaker 2: Well, well, you don't necessarily want to, you know when 734 00:35:02,239 --> 00:35:05,280 Speaker 2: when you're just back to the whole idea of knowing 735 00:35:05,360 --> 00:35:08,279 Speaker 2: your position, which you kind of started with, like yeah, 736 00:35:08,280 --> 00:35:11,040 Speaker 2: and knowing what your contribution is and people wanting to 737 00:35:11,080 --> 00:35:15,040 Speaker 2: be what they're not. Right, you know, this is really understanding. 738 00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:18,560 Speaker 2: You know how you where you fully express yourself and 739 00:35:18,640 --> 00:35:21,120 Speaker 2: what does that look like? And just like in a relationship, 740 00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:23,239 Speaker 2: if if you have two people the same issues, you 741 00:35:23,239 --> 00:35:25,560 Speaker 2: know that's problematic and you know, meaning like oh we're 742 00:35:25,560 --> 00:35:27,319 Speaker 2: going to run out of money, Yeah, we're going to die. 743 00:35:27,680 --> 00:35:29,879 Speaker 2: You don't want those two things or like god, look 744 00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:32,080 Speaker 2: out fat i am, look out a look at my butt. 745 00:35:32,160 --> 00:35:35,400 Speaker 2: You don't want both those all those issues colliding. You 746 00:35:35,440 --> 00:35:38,239 Speaker 2: want them missing. And that's the same with assets. When 747 00:35:38,280 --> 00:35:42,160 Speaker 2: you build a team, you know, the the CEO is 748 00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:44,880 Speaker 2: not the is not the CTO, and the CTO is 749 00:35:44,920 --> 00:35:48,120 Speaker 2: not the CEO, and the and the founders and the 750 00:35:48,200 --> 00:35:51,440 Speaker 2: visionaries not and they're all they're all And building a 751 00:35:51,760 --> 00:35:56,480 Speaker 2: profound championship team is understanding each person playing their position 752 00:35:56,840 --> 00:35:58,360 Speaker 2: perfectly and the intersect. 753 00:35:58,600 --> 00:36:00,399 Speaker 1: Yeah, you could be in the I've had pe someone 754 00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:03,640 Speaker 1: who's seems who's in the wrong seat, but and they're 755 00:36:03,680 --> 00:36:05,000 Speaker 1: great in the right seat. 756 00:36:04,840 --> 00:36:06,920 Speaker 2: Like absolutely, just a little exactly. 757 00:36:07,200 --> 00:36:09,759 Speaker 1: Okay, you could have someone who seems terrible because they're 758 00:36:09,800 --> 00:36:12,080 Speaker 1: in the wrong fucking seat. But if they're loyal and 759 00:36:12,120 --> 00:36:15,560 Speaker 1: seems smart enough, you should play musical chairs. And what's 760 00:36:15,560 --> 00:36:18,120 Speaker 1: interesting is that, So I'm at this Fortune event last night. 761 00:36:18,120 --> 00:36:20,680 Speaker 1: I'm sitting at the table with a woman very high 762 00:36:20,719 --> 00:36:23,920 Speaker 1: up at General Motors and another and we're next to uh, 763 00:36:24,040 --> 00:36:27,600 Speaker 1: Josh Kushner, uh, and the guy who is the CEO, 764 00:36:27,719 --> 00:36:31,120 Speaker 1: Sebastian of hult Renfrew, like major people. And this woman 765 00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:33,880 Speaker 1: Diane Brady next to me, who had an interesting conversation 766 00:36:33,960 --> 00:36:36,640 Speaker 1: with journalists and she's at Fortune. Now that's her, that's her. 767 00:36:37,200 --> 00:36:39,000 Speaker 1: She's the one who said it. But to be honest, 768 00:36:39,360 --> 00:36:42,399 Speaker 1: I have never heard anyone use it in human resources 769 00:36:42,480 --> 00:36:46,560 Speaker 1: and in staffing and in executive searches. And they should, 770 00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:48,640 Speaker 1: like you're not allowed to ask someone how old they are, 771 00:36:48,680 --> 00:36:51,319 Speaker 1: but you should be you should actually do the emotionally 772 00:36:51,400 --> 00:36:55,200 Speaker 1: intelligent conversation in staffing and ask are you an introvise? 773 00:36:55,280 --> 00:36:57,880 Speaker 1: This is no wrong answer, but here's the here's the quiz, 774 00:36:58,000 --> 00:36:59,520 Speaker 1: or give them the quiz, like it's like an IQ 775 00:36:59,680 --> 00:37:03,439 Speaker 1: quiz because it's true, Like I have been in relationships 776 00:37:03,480 --> 00:37:06,480 Speaker 1: with introverts many times because I'm attracted to someone similar 777 00:37:06,520 --> 00:37:07,880 Speaker 1: to me because they're gonna say I don't want to 778 00:37:07,880 --> 00:37:10,760 Speaker 1: go out either. But it's bad for me. It's bad 779 00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:13,799 Speaker 1: for me, and I haven't realized that because it's like 780 00:37:13,840 --> 00:37:15,279 Speaker 1: I get into like sort of like there's like a 781 00:37:15,320 --> 00:37:17,280 Speaker 1: film on us. It's like stale. 782 00:37:17,239 --> 00:37:21,040 Speaker 2: Understanding, you know, understanding and the one hundred of nuances 783 00:37:21,080 --> 00:37:23,840 Speaker 2: that go to those kind of headlines intovert an extrovert 784 00:37:23,880 --> 00:37:27,439 Speaker 2: r because underneath those two things are tons of nuances that, yeah, 785 00:37:27,480 --> 00:37:31,040 Speaker 2: that someone should use this as some sort of scrutiny 786 00:37:31,040 --> 00:37:33,360 Speaker 2: in terms of discerning like, well is this person the 787 00:37:33,440 --> 00:37:35,239 Speaker 2: right position? I mean, I'm doing that all day long. 788 00:37:35,239 --> 00:37:37,280 Speaker 2: In terms of subtle pivot. It's like just a little 789 00:37:37,560 --> 00:37:40,319 Speaker 2: subtle pivot and changes is a game changer with that 790 00:37:40,360 --> 00:37:42,919 Speaker 2: person or a dramatic pivot, right, Yeah. 791 00:37:42,920 --> 00:37:44,840 Speaker 1: But I think in this case the label is important 792 00:37:44,880 --> 00:37:46,560 Speaker 1: because I don't think that the average person if I 793 00:37:46,600 --> 00:37:50,040 Speaker 1: were applying for a job. They would not think that 794 00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:50,920 Speaker 1: I was an introvert. 795 00:37:51,040 --> 00:37:52,920 Speaker 2: No, no, no, no, they wouldn't. They wouldn't have no 796 00:37:53,040 --> 00:37:54,080 Speaker 2: idea you. 797 00:37:53,960 --> 00:37:56,759 Speaker 1: Too, if someone were hiring you, Breck, they would. 798 00:37:56,480 --> 00:37:58,520 Speaker 2: Not No, no, absolutely right. 799 00:37:58,719 --> 00:38:00,520 Speaker 1: So they might think you could manage bunch of people. 800 00:38:00,520 --> 00:38:02,839 Speaker 1: They might think you could be the head. You know. 801 00:38:02,960 --> 00:38:04,520 Speaker 2: You know what I mean, I've done that. When I'm 802 00:38:04,560 --> 00:38:06,680 Speaker 2: pitching something that I really want you to take over this, 803 00:38:06,760 --> 00:38:09,440 Speaker 2: I go, that's a lesson you want me doing exactly, 804 00:38:09,600 --> 00:38:12,960 Speaker 2: And I say that directly. You know that's not I'm 805 00:38:12,960 --> 00:38:14,560 Speaker 2: not I'm not doing that, right. 806 00:38:14,440 --> 00:38:16,239 Speaker 1: But that's because also you won't do obligation. 807 00:38:16,719 --> 00:38:20,000 Speaker 2: Yes, so, but I was saying about Bethane. When you're 808 00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:24,000 Speaker 2: seeing being attracted to your light, that is what. That's 809 00:38:24,120 --> 00:38:28,040 Speaker 2: what someone who's an entrepreneur, visionary, you know, someone who 810 00:38:28,120 --> 00:38:31,680 Speaker 2: like you. People know that shit's going to happen over there. 811 00:38:32,080 --> 00:38:34,960 Speaker 2: This is something. This is you know, there's something creative, 812 00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:38,839 Speaker 2: something innovative, something will happen that will translate into, you know, 813 00:38:38,920 --> 00:38:42,920 Speaker 2: into the world. Right, So I think people know that, right. 814 00:38:43,040 --> 00:38:45,440 Speaker 1: And I get vampired and I don't even realize it 815 00:38:45,480 --> 00:38:46,080 Speaker 1: is and then you. 816 00:38:46,040 --> 00:38:47,799 Speaker 2: Need to know who Then you need to know, like 817 00:38:48,200 --> 00:38:50,560 Speaker 2: who are you going to allow do that, because they 818 00:38:50,600 --> 00:38:53,000 Speaker 2: have to be complementary in terms of feeding you as 819 00:38:53,080 --> 00:38:56,000 Speaker 2: much as you feed that. Right, it's a it's that's 820 00:38:56,040 --> 00:38:56,760 Speaker 2: part of the dance. 821 00:38:57,360 --> 00:38:59,959 Speaker 1: And by the way, that's a thing. That's another construct 822 00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:01,960 Speaker 1: that like could be a chapter in a book that 823 00:39:02,040 --> 00:39:04,600 Speaker 1: I never have thought about that and this age I've 824 00:39:04,680 --> 00:39:08,279 Speaker 1: never thought about that. I'm gonna draw certain people, but 825 00:39:09,040 --> 00:39:10,920 Speaker 1: if they're if we're not gonna be playing tennis where 826 00:39:10,920 --> 00:39:12,600 Speaker 1: I'm playing with a better tennis player and they're just 827 00:39:12,640 --> 00:39:16,920 Speaker 1: gonna draw off of me, but I'm not getting anything positive, 828 00:39:17,040 --> 00:39:19,320 Speaker 1: it's gonna kill me. And it's happened like it actually 829 00:39:19,320 --> 00:39:22,200 Speaker 1: you feel like you're just light is dimming. It's actually 830 00:39:22,200 --> 00:39:22,719 Speaker 1: happened to me. 831 00:39:22,840 --> 00:39:26,120 Speaker 2: It's wild and that I mean, I'm possibly I don't 832 00:39:26,120 --> 00:39:29,000 Speaker 2: know if it's actually, you know, completely true. But that's 833 00:39:29,040 --> 00:39:32,560 Speaker 2: an age thing also where you then know that because 834 00:39:32,600 --> 00:39:35,960 Speaker 2: mostly you're just gonna you're gonna draw in everything because 835 00:39:35,960 --> 00:39:38,520 Speaker 2: that's what the light does. It'll draw in all kinds 836 00:39:38,560 --> 00:39:41,759 Speaker 2: of things. And then the ability to discern who you 837 00:39:41,880 --> 00:39:44,200 Speaker 2: actually collaborate with, who you're with, what. 838 00:39:44,120 --> 00:39:47,280 Speaker 1: You're gonna do Mark that's exactly. My biggest problem. Literally, 839 00:39:47,760 --> 00:39:50,080 Speaker 1: access is my number one problem. Everyone around me. We 840 00:39:50,160 --> 00:39:52,120 Speaker 1: have to go on an access diet. Two things. Having 841 00:39:52,160 --> 00:39:55,440 Speaker 1: too many ideas is number one. But access it's insane. 842 00:39:55,480 --> 00:39:58,120 Speaker 1: Like I'll talk, I'll be giving my phone number to 843 00:39:58,160 --> 00:40:00,000 Speaker 1: the person that's bringing the ice bucket to the table 844 00:40:00,040 --> 00:40:02,000 Speaker 1: because they're like fun and they were so good at it, 845 00:40:02,080 --> 00:40:04,640 Speaker 1: like and people around me. But then to everybody in 846 00:40:04,680 --> 00:40:07,040 Speaker 1: business and everybody in charity and people around me like, stop, 847 00:40:07,239 --> 00:40:10,280 Speaker 1: we're on an access you can't know too much. 848 00:40:10,719 --> 00:40:12,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think I do think that's a function 849 00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:14,960 Speaker 2: of a of age and wisdom where you just have 850 00:40:15,120 --> 00:40:18,479 Speaker 2: the ability to discern and that and that you start doing. 851 00:40:18,520 --> 00:40:21,600 Speaker 2: It's like one action impacts one hundred actions rather than 852 00:40:21,640 --> 00:40:24,719 Speaker 2: a hundred actions impact one hundred actions. Right, you really 853 00:40:24,920 --> 00:40:27,520 Speaker 2: use your leverage and your understanding and your discernment and 854 00:40:27,600 --> 00:40:30,960 Speaker 2: you and you honor the you know your capacity and 855 00:40:30,960 --> 00:40:33,040 Speaker 2: what you have to offer. I mean, I'm saying that 856 00:40:33,080 --> 00:40:35,399 Speaker 2: all the time. Like, you know, I remember years ago. 857 00:40:35,480 --> 00:40:37,480 Speaker 2: It's a it's a crazy story, but I remember this 858 00:40:37,560 --> 00:40:40,440 Speaker 2: person came to me and I don't know they were 859 00:40:40,520 --> 00:40:43,600 Speaker 2: kind of they were a client, but they said, I 860 00:40:43,640 --> 00:40:45,400 Speaker 2: really want to be. I really want to be friends 861 00:40:45,400 --> 00:40:47,520 Speaker 2: with you, brick correct, Like, he said, what are you seven? 862 00:40:47,760 --> 00:40:50,040 Speaker 2: It's an interesting thing like seven year olds do? I said, 863 00:40:50,280 --> 00:40:51,719 Speaker 2: He goes, I really want to be friends with you. 864 00:40:52,000 --> 00:40:54,480 Speaker 2: And I said, I can either tell you the truth 865 00:40:54,600 --> 00:40:56,799 Speaker 2: or nor your phone call. Which one do you want? 866 00:40:57,080 --> 00:40:57,279 Speaker 1: Right? 867 00:40:57,640 --> 00:40:59,920 Speaker 2: And he said, okay, tell me the truth. I go, 868 00:41:00,040 --> 00:41:02,400 Speaker 2: I would never be friends with you, and he said 869 00:41:02,640 --> 00:41:06,480 Speaker 2: what I said, you understand my friendships are based on 870 00:41:06,840 --> 00:41:09,479 Speaker 2: collaborative things. That doesn't mean emergencies don't happen. That doesn't 871 00:41:09,480 --> 00:41:11,560 Speaker 2: mean we're not there for each other. It means that 872 00:41:11,960 --> 00:41:14,160 Speaker 2: you know, we're not there's no draining of each other. 873 00:41:14,440 --> 00:41:17,080 Speaker 2: And I said, you would be draining the hell out 874 00:41:17,120 --> 00:41:19,520 Speaker 2: of me, right, And they said there'd be not enough 875 00:41:19,600 --> 00:41:22,000 Speaker 2: that you could bring that would actually, you know, change that. 876 00:41:22,360 --> 00:41:24,320 Speaker 2: So why don't you just keep coming to me until 877 00:41:24,320 --> 00:41:27,160 Speaker 2: you can be your own best friend? Okay? I like, 878 00:41:27,239 --> 00:41:31,359 Speaker 2: so that's so it's understanding, you know that, not from 879 00:41:31,360 --> 00:41:34,360 Speaker 2: an egotistical place. It's more from really understanding. 880 00:41:34,560 --> 00:41:37,560 Speaker 1: And so it's actually selfless because you're being honest, and 881 00:41:37,560 --> 00:41:38,680 Speaker 1: it's useful for him. 882 00:41:38,800 --> 00:41:41,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's useful to see like, really, well, what is 883 00:41:41,040 --> 00:41:44,680 Speaker 2: it about me. That's doing that right, where's the neediness 884 00:41:44,719 --> 00:41:47,720 Speaker 2: in me? That's you know, and that's that's U telling 885 00:41:48,040 --> 00:41:48,600 Speaker 2: complete Yeah. 886 00:41:48,880 --> 00:41:52,799 Speaker 1: Yeah, So I could talk to Breck forever, and I'm 887 00:41:52,840 --> 00:41:55,680 Speaker 1: like exasperated today. I'm a little manic because there's so 888 00:41:55,760 --> 00:41:57,799 Speaker 1: many topics that I want to get you guys in 889 00:41:57,840 --> 00:41:59,720 Speaker 1: two with him, and next time there'll be ten more. 890 00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:01,759 Speaker 1: So I'm reminding myself the next time, I want to 891 00:42:01,760 --> 00:42:04,840 Speaker 1: talk about intervening in our own behavior. And also that 892 00:42:04,920 --> 00:42:08,760 Speaker 1: Breck has said batteries not including batteries are not included 893 00:42:08,800 --> 00:42:11,680 Speaker 1: in people like how we expect to either fix someone 894 00:42:11,760 --> 00:42:13,759 Speaker 1: or them to be everything, or to just start criticizing 895 00:42:13,800 --> 00:42:16,279 Speaker 1: what they are today when they're a fully formed human 896 00:42:16,280 --> 00:42:20,000 Speaker 1: being when you meet them, and also catastrophizing. So I 897 00:42:20,040 --> 00:42:21,480 Speaker 1: want to talk to you about a lot of things. 898 00:42:21,480 --> 00:42:21,920 Speaker 1: It's too many. 899 00:42:22,000 --> 00:42:24,120 Speaker 2: There also just to add, I mean, there's so many 900 00:42:24,160 --> 00:42:26,520 Speaker 2: things you're right that can go on forever. And that's 901 00:42:26,560 --> 00:42:29,120 Speaker 2: the whole nature of just when we're talking about partnerships 902 00:42:29,160 --> 00:42:32,000 Speaker 2: or relationships, most people commit to their expectations, they don't 903 00:42:32,040 --> 00:42:34,240 Speaker 2: really commit to the to the actual person. 904 00:42:34,440 --> 00:42:36,960 Speaker 1: They don't really all right, So that we're going to 905 00:42:37,000 --> 00:42:38,319 Speaker 1: get into that all right, So we got to do 906 00:42:38,360 --> 00:42:40,080 Speaker 1: this more. I could go for days, but you got 907 00:42:40,080 --> 00:42:40,560 Speaker 1: to get off. 908 00:42:40,480 --> 00:42:42,839 Speaker 2: All right, all right, great talking, all. 909 00:42:42,800 --> 00:42:45,680 Speaker 1: Right, Oh my God, beyond bye Breck. 910 00:43:00,560 --> 00:43:05,880 Speaker 2: After to a w B after