WEBVTT - Iger Returns to Disney As Chapek Exits 0:00:01.800 --> 0:00:04.440 This is Bloomberg Business Week. I'm Carole Masser and I'm 0:00:04.440 --> 0:00:07.280 Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stanobek. We're here every day bringing 0:00:07.280 --> 0:00:09.799 you the latest news from the world of business and finance, 0:00:09.840 --> 0:00:13.640 plus technology, politics, economics, all partnising the power of Business 0:00:13.640 --> 0:00:17.119 Week reporters and editors, not to mention our journalists and 0:00:17.120 --> 0:00:19.600 analyst in more than one and twenty countries. You can 0:00:19.640 --> 0:00:23.200 download Bloomberg Business Week and iTunes, SoundCloud, or Bloomberg dot Com. 0:00:23.400 --> 0:00:25.120 You can also listen to our radio show at two 0:00:25.160 --> 0:00:27.840 pm Eastern Time on Bloomberg Radio, or watch us on 0:00:27.880 --> 0:00:31.200 YouTube and now also on Bloomberg Quick Take. I don't 0:00:31.240 --> 0:00:34.080 know about U, Katie, but last night I about ten 0:00:34.080 --> 0:00:37.720 o'clock Eastern time saw in my email at a message 0:00:37.880 --> 0:00:41.360 opened it up all caps headline from the Bloomberg Professional Service, 0:00:41.840 --> 0:00:46.240 Bob Iger coming back to Disney after retiring Bob J 0:00:46.400 --> 0:00:49.199 peck out while was the only word that came to 0:00:49.280 --> 0:00:51.000 mind at some other choice where its came to mind 0:00:51.040 --> 0:00:53.479 as well. But this is a big deal in the 0:00:53.520 --> 0:00:56.040 world of media. We've got Felix to Lette with us. 0:00:56.040 --> 0:00:58.680 He's Media, Entertainment and Telecom editor for Bloomberg Business Week. 0:00:58.760 --> 0:01:00.400 Is also the author of the great new book It's 0:01:00.400 --> 0:01:03.600 called It's Not TV. The Spectacular, Rise, Revolution and Future 0:01:03.640 --> 0:01:06.559 of HBO. He joined us via zoom from New York City. Felix, 0:01:06.600 --> 0:01:08.600 what was your first reaction when you saw this last night? 0:01:09.720 --> 0:01:11.720 It was pretty jaw dropping. I had to close my 0:01:11.840 --> 0:01:15.120 fantasy football app and you know, pay attention to what's 0:01:15.120 --> 0:01:20.240 happened in the media world again. Um yeah, total shock, surprise, excitement. 0:01:20.640 --> 0:01:24.280 This is just a totally wild move. Um And I 0:01:24.360 --> 0:01:27.960 think underscores what a crazy time it is in the 0:01:28.120 --> 0:01:34.360 entertainment business and how challenging and tumultuous this transition from 0:01:34.880 --> 0:01:37.920 the cable era to the streaming era is going to 0:01:37.959 --> 0:01:40.240 be for pretty much every big player in the space, 0:01:40.280 --> 0:01:43.200 including Disney. I'll admit I was asleep at ten pm. 0:01:43.280 --> 0:01:45.319 You got an early morning. I was resting up for 0:01:45.360 --> 0:01:48.640 a big day of reporting for Bloomberg News. But uh 0:01:48.760 --> 0:01:52.960 so you described shock. Was anyone expecting this or was 0:01:53.040 --> 0:01:57.440 this across the board shocking? I think that there were 0:01:57.520 --> 0:02:01.240 definitely people calling for a change at the top of Disney, 0:02:01.400 --> 0:02:04.600 particularly coming off of this last quarter, which was really 0:02:04.640 --> 0:02:08.560 truly a disastrous quarter for Disney. Um And I think 0:02:08.600 --> 0:02:13.680 shapeck performance during the earnings call, uh, left a lot 0:02:13.680 --> 0:02:17.760 of people scratching their head. You know, the Disney had 0:02:17.960 --> 0:02:21.760 announced this one point five billion dollar loss on streaming 0:02:22.520 --> 0:02:24.920 for the quarter, which was you know, way bigger than 0:02:24.960 --> 0:02:26.760 people thought it was going to be. And yet SHAPEC 0:02:26.880 --> 0:02:31.280 was really cheerful and sunny during that call. And uh 0:02:31.400 --> 0:02:35.040 so we think in one sense, people were thinking, Okay, 0:02:35.080 --> 0:02:37.320 maybe this guy is in over his head. There's been 0:02:37.360 --> 0:02:40.160 all these series of missteps. There was, you know, his 0:02:40.400 --> 0:02:44.359 clumsy handling of the culture War issues down in Florida. 0:02:44.800 --> 0:02:47.760 There was this dismissile of Peter Rice, the head of television, 0:02:47.840 --> 0:02:50.960 earlier this year, which upset a lot of creative people 0:02:51.040 --> 0:02:54.640 in Hollywood. Um. You know, so there's been a series 0:02:54.680 --> 0:02:58.240 of airs. Um so, I think the decision to move 0:02:58.280 --> 0:03:01.320 on from SHAPEC, I think is not that shocking. It's 0:03:01.360 --> 0:03:05.880 really just the bringing Eiger back, um, you know, replacing 0:03:06.600 --> 0:03:10.760 his hand chosen you know, pick to succeed him originally. Uh. 0:03:10.800 --> 0:03:12.960 You know, for years, every time he's been out in public, 0:03:13.000 --> 0:03:15.520 people have asked them about would you ever consider coming 0:03:15.560 --> 0:03:17.720 back to Disney? And he said again and again and 0:03:17.760 --> 0:03:21.160 again like no, I'm not interested. I'm not interested. So 0:03:21.280 --> 0:03:23.679 that part of it is is pretty wild. Never say never. 0:03:23.720 --> 0:03:26.280 I mean, Bob Iger seventy one years old. He was 0:03:26.280 --> 0:03:29.840 was at Disney before he quote unquote retired more than 0:03:30.000 --> 0:03:32.600 for more than four decades. He was its CEO for 0:03:32.639 --> 0:03:35.600 fifteen years. He oversaw some of the biggest acquisitions that 0:03:35.640 --> 0:03:41.080 the company made, including Marvel, Pixar and other acquisitions. So, Felix, 0:03:41.120 --> 0:03:42.640 what does it mean for the future of Disney and 0:03:42.680 --> 0:03:44.400 what we can expect over the next two years, which 0:03:44.440 --> 0:03:49.360 is from what we understand, uh, what we'll see with Iger. Yeah, 0:03:49.400 --> 0:03:52.080 I mean, I think the argument for bringing him back 0:03:52.200 --> 0:03:54.720 is this guy had a fifteen year run that was 0:03:54.760 --> 0:03:59.560 seen as this incredible uh time for Disney, this great 0:03:59.600 --> 0:04:03.160 series acquisitions he made. And you know, we're at this 0:04:03.320 --> 0:04:07.920 point in this transition from cable to streaming where everybody 0:04:08.000 --> 0:04:11.200 is suffering because the linear networks that was making everybody 0:04:11.240 --> 0:04:14.880 profits are you know, continue to decline very quickly. The 0:04:14.960 --> 0:04:19.159 streaming services are essentially these huge giant holes of money 0:04:19.200 --> 0:04:21.960 at this point of people are just shoveling money into them. 0:04:22.000 --> 0:04:24.680 They're still not profitable. Um. So I think it's a 0:04:24.760 --> 0:04:29.960 time when almost anything could be up for um for sale. 0:04:30.480 --> 0:04:34.159 I think we're going to see more consolidation space. People 0:04:34.160 --> 0:04:37.400 are going to have to team up further in order 0:04:37.440 --> 0:04:39.840 to survive this era. And I think the argument for 0:04:39.960 --> 0:04:44.440 bringing your back is you want that guy uh making 0:04:44.440 --> 0:04:47.760 those big decisions over the next couple of years, um, 0:04:47.960 --> 0:04:49.800 and you know you have some faith that he's going 0:04:49.839 --> 0:04:52.839 to make smart moves. Well, Wall Street is definitely cheering 0:04:53.320 --> 0:04:55.839 both of you. Look at the shares also at least 0:04:55.880 --> 0:04:58.640 one upgrade on this news. But tell us about the 0:04:58.640 --> 0:05:04.480 potential fly in the ointment here the activist investor Nelson 0:05:04.600 --> 0:05:09.239 pelts his fund. What could potentially go wrong here? Yeah, 0:05:09.279 --> 0:05:12.120 I mean I think that there's plenty that could go wrong. 0:05:12.160 --> 0:05:15.880 I think, um, you know, part of it is again 0:05:16.800 --> 0:05:18.440 the funny. The thing that's kind of funny to me 0:05:18.560 --> 0:05:22.320 is like, you know, I kept pushing back his retirement 0:05:22.320 --> 0:05:25.799 again and again during his previous reign, and he kept, 0:05:25.880 --> 0:05:28.240 you know, there was all this speculation about you know, 0:05:28.520 --> 0:05:30.480 who are who's going to succeed you? Or do you 0:05:30.520 --> 0:05:32.600 have a leader in mind? You know, who's going to 0:05:32.680 --> 0:05:35.880 carry this future company into the future. He really kept 0:05:36.000 --> 0:05:39.880 running off potential candidates, um, and then in the end 0:05:40.120 --> 0:05:43.280 he picked this guy Shapebeck, who left everyone kind of 0:05:43.320 --> 0:05:45.920 scratching it has why do you do that? Um And 0:05:46.000 --> 0:05:48.719 now you know, on the one hand, it's great that 0:05:48.760 --> 0:05:52.279 Iger's back to deal with whatever acquisitions they're gonna have 0:05:52.360 --> 0:05:53.640 to make in the next couple of years. On the 0:05:53.640 --> 0:05:56.400 other hand, now he's back in charge of picking another 0:05:56.520 --> 0:05:59.960 successor for the future of Disney, and it doesn't give 0:06:00.000 --> 0:06:02.200 you a lot of faith that he is very good 0:06:02.200 --> 0:06:05.400 at that process. Um. So, I think that's going to 0:06:05.440 --> 0:06:07.720 be part of the challenge that all investors are going 0:06:07.760 --> 0:06:11.920 to be looking at, like what is the plan beyond 0:06:12.000 --> 0:06:14.719 these two years? That's certainly the question that many people 0:06:15.000 --> 0:06:16.600 are going to have it at least, as you mentioned, 0:06:16.680 --> 0:06:19.600 Katie uh And you pointed to Disney shares up more 0:06:19.640 --> 0:06:22.599 than five percent right now, and they were high as 0:06:22.640 --> 0:06:24.840 high as nine point nine percent earlier in the day. 0:06:25.160 --> 0:06:28.479 Felix Gillette Media Entertainment telecom editor for Bloomberg Business Week. 0:06:28.520 --> 0:06:30.719 He's the author of the great new book just came 0:06:30.720 --> 0:06:33.200 out earlier this month. It's called It's Not TV The 0:06:33.240 --> 0:06:36.800 Spectacular Rise Revolution in Future of HBO. Joining us this 0:06:36.880 --> 0:06:40.320 afternoon via zoom from New York City. You're listening to 0:06:40.440 --> 0:06:44.400 Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and Bloomberg Quick Takes. 0:06:44.480 --> 0:06:48.480 Tim Stinovic on Bloomberg Radio. We've talked in the past 0:06:48.560 --> 0:06:51.320 about what it means for people who have been laid 0:06:51.360 --> 0:06:53.240 off from some of the biggest tech firms. I mean, 0:06:53.240 --> 0:06:58.680 we're talking about companies like meta platforms, Uber, Lift, Salesforce, Stripe, 0:06:59.120 --> 0:07:01.839 and more. And we talked about it oftentimes in the 0:07:01.880 --> 0:07:04.960 context of what it means in the bigger picture of 0:07:05.000 --> 0:07:07.479 what it says about the economy. But there's a different 0:07:07.480 --> 0:07:09.400 way of looking at it that's really important, and it 0:07:09.440 --> 0:07:12.720 has to do with people who hold H one B 0:07:13.040 --> 0:07:15.960 visas and what they're doing if they've been laid off. 0:07:16.440 --> 0:07:19.560 We've got Sinduja Rodnegrogen on the phone with us. She's 0:07:19.560 --> 0:07:22.400 senior investigative data reporter. Actually, she joins us via zoom 0:07:22.440 --> 0:07:25.520 from San Francisco for a Bloomberg News You can read 0:07:25.520 --> 0:07:27.520 her story right now on the Bloomberg terminal and at 0:07:27.520 --> 0:07:30.240 Bloomberg dot com. Slash business Week also with us as 0:07:30.320 --> 0:07:32.760 Joel Webber, the editor of Bloomberg Business Week. He's with 0:07:32.840 --> 0:07:36.560 us right now in the Bloomberg Interactive Broker's studio. So, Joel, 0:07:36.560 --> 0:07:39.000 how how should we be thinking about these layoffs? Well, 0:07:39.160 --> 0:07:43.520 one thing that really UH struck me with UH. Saint's reporting. 0:07:43.800 --> 0:07:47.200 UH and companies reporting is about H one B visas 0:07:47.480 --> 0:07:50.480 and H one B visus have been uh something that 0:07:50.520 --> 0:07:55.600 the magazine has written about before. UM, skilled workers that 0:07:55.840 --> 0:07:59.800 have largely been in the tech industry. UH from a 0:08:00.080 --> 0:08:04.240 rod and you're we're talking some pretty incredible stories about 0:08:04.320 --> 0:08:06.840 where a lot of these people come from. But the 0:08:06.840 --> 0:08:11.640 tech industry has really benefited from this workforce. But what's 0:08:11.720 --> 0:08:14.480 what's interesting is effectively it's a company sponsored. So the 0:08:14.480 --> 0:08:16.680 moment that any of these people get laid off or fired, 0:08:17.080 --> 0:08:21.680 it puts them in a really difficult place. A lot 0:08:21.720 --> 0:08:24.680 of these people end up with mortgages, childcare, all kinds 0:08:24.720 --> 0:08:27.120 of stuff because they're you know, banking on a on 0:08:27.160 --> 0:08:31.760 a future here um oftentimes putting permanent residents residency in 0:08:31.800 --> 0:08:35.920 motion at the same time. So, so Sin brings us 0:08:35.920 --> 0:08:39.520 inside this having having seen this data, how significant of 0:08:39.600 --> 0:08:43.760 a hit to the tech industry are these firings having 0:08:43.880 --> 0:08:47.679 as as it puts a lot of these people in jeopardy. UM, 0:08:47.880 --> 0:08:49.920 So this is a very interesting question. So it's like 0:08:50.080 --> 0:08:52.480 hundreds of employees we know have been laid off just 0:08:52.559 --> 0:08:55.520 from Twitter and Meta. I think around three fifty. And 0:08:55.559 --> 0:08:57.240 I want to say it's an under account because we're 0:08:57.240 --> 0:09:01.720 looking at people who have been posting on LinkedIn, putting 0:09:01.720 --> 0:09:05.120 their name out there in a crowd crowdsourced spreadsheet or 0:09:05.160 --> 0:09:08.920 something saying hey, I'm in need of a visa sponsorship them. 0:09:09.240 --> 0:09:12.079 You know. Overall, like when we did our analysis, we 0:09:12.640 --> 0:09:15.160 realized just with like six companies you know that have 0:09:15.200 --> 0:09:19.040 been recently doing the layoffs Meta, Twitter, Amazon, Stripe, Salesforce, 0:09:19.520 --> 0:09:24.360 and um Um and Left, we found that they just 0:09:24.640 --> 0:09:28.120 the six of them employee sixty forty five thousand um 0:09:28.240 --> 0:09:30.720 H one B workers. That's an estimate we look, we 0:09:30.880 --> 0:09:34.960 created based on our our data analysis and just between 0:09:34.960 --> 0:09:37.880 Twitter and Meta, we found hundreds of people who claim 0:09:37.960 --> 0:09:41.880 to be visa holders who have been um um laid 0:09:41.920 --> 0:09:44.320 off in the in the in the last few weeks. 0:09:45.000 --> 0:09:48.120 So it's a pretty significant number, you know, and it's 0:09:48.120 --> 0:09:50.400 in the hundreds for sure. As you and our colleagues 0:09:50.440 --> 0:09:54.440 Brody Ford and Katrina Madison right, people who do hold 0:09:54.600 --> 0:09:57.960 H one B visas who then become unemployed, they can 0:09:57.960 --> 0:10:00.120 only remain in the US legally for sixty d is 0:10:00.160 --> 0:10:03.200 without finding new employers to sponsor them. Do we know 0:10:03.240 --> 0:10:06.400 anything about the terms that these employees are given when 0:10:06.480 --> 0:10:10.000 they are laid off from companies because they faced this 0:10:10.080 --> 0:10:14.960 special circumstance, Like are they given better terms because they're 0:10:14.960 --> 0:10:18.120 on this kind of timeline here? Yeah, I mean, I 0:10:18.160 --> 0:10:20.480 think you know, that was the interesting thing we found 0:10:20.480 --> 0:10:23.079 while reporting the story. You know, we started out thinking 0:10:23.080 --> 0:10:24.920 of the story is like a human story. You know, 0:10:25.000 --> 0:10:28.120 what happens when you have this few weeks a few 0:10:28.160 --> 0:10:30.520 months of deadline and you're trying to scramble for another 0:10:30.640 --> 0:10:33.920 job and visa sponsorship. But what we realize is that 0:10:34.000 --> 0:10:35.960 some companies are doing better than others in terms of 0:10:36.000 --> 0:10:38.920 how they treat their immigrant workforce and what policies they 0:10:38.960 --> 0:10:41.800 lay out. For example, you know, we found that Twitter 0:10:41.880 --> 0:10:44.320 sort of didn't give a lot of assistance or support 0:10:44.960 --> 0:10:47.800 to these employees, and some other companies have like a 0:10:47.840 --> 0:10:52.640 little wealth out slightly better thoughtout policies. So for example, 0:10:52.760 --> 0:10:57.240 you know, your sixty day clock starts sticking after the 0:10:57.320 --> 0:10:59.679 last day that you've you know, worked there, So if 0:10:59.679 --> 0:11:02.240 you could extend that last day, you know, if if 0:11:02.280 --> 0:11:04.800 there's like a notice period given that you're going to 0:11:04.840 --> 0:11:07.240 be laid off, but after two months, so that gives 0:11:07.280 --> 0:11:10.120 like people four months, you know, two months when they're 0:11:10.160 --> 0:11:13.680 working at that company, and then UM an additional sixty days. 0:11:13.720 --> 0:11:16.480 So if that can be a form of relief and 0:11:16.520 --> 0:11:19.160 as opposed to saying, you know, you're later off today, Uh, 0:11:19.200 --> 0:11:20.920 and then you know we're going to give you severance 0:11:20.960 --> 0:11:23.160 for three weeks or whatever or eight weeks or something, 0:11:23.240 --> 0:11:25.320 and then you know your clock starts right now. So 0:11:25.400 --> 0:11:27.960 that extension of time is really important. And you know 0:11:28.040 --> 0:11:30.480 some companies, I think Meta has done that, particularly for 0:11:30.520 --> 0:11:33.840 immigrant visa holders. Lift was another one. Um stripe when 0:11:33.840 --> 0:11:35.679 they wrote that email. I don't know if they offered 0:11:35.679 --> 0:11:39.080 a notice spirit, but they know definitely acknowledged that this 0:11:39.080 --> 0:11:42.560 would be very difficult for immigrant visa holders. And Twitter, 0:11:42.679 --> 0:11:45.880 you know sort of they didn't think through as much 0:11:46.160 --> 0:11:49.680 based on our reporting, and yeah, and there was there was, 0:11:49.760 --> 0:11:52.560 you know, the and when employees wrote to them, they 0:11:52.720 --> 0:11:54.800 many of them were really confused about you know, when 0:11:54.840 --> 0:11:58.120 does my clock start ticking? Does it start the day 0:11:58.480 --> 0:12:01.920 of January four? When you know you've said that that 0:12:01.960 --> 0:12:04.040 would be our last day? But you know, we're not productive, 0:12:04.040 --> 0:12:05.920 We're not on the are we on payroll? Are we not? 0:12:06.040 --> 0:12:07.920 And you know, like, uh, is it going to be 0:12:08.000 --> 0:12:09.880 a member for them. So there was like a lot 0:12:09.880 --> 0:12:13.479 of confusion amongst employees and they got very little guidance, 0:12:13.600 --> 0:12:17.280 very little like immigration one on one counseling or even 0:12:17.600 --> 0:12:21.880 or even you know, um, anything that says more definitively yeah, 0:12:21.880 --> 0:12:23.360 this is the day you need to this is your 0:12:23.400 --> 0:12:25.400 last day, or that is your last day. They just said, 0:12:25.440 --> 0:12:28.360 you know, you should consult your own immigration attorney. So 0:12:28.600 --> 0:12:31.240 I think, you know, employees, that's like the least you 0:12:31.320 --> 0:12:34.120 could do for this workforce if invested so much time 0:12:34.120 --> 0:12:36.559 in this country, like you mentioned, and you know, at 0:12:36.600 --> 0:12:40.080 least give them like the most they can get so 0:12:40.160 --> 0:12:43.160 they can like succeed in finding that job, especially now 0:12:43.520 --> 0:12:47.000 at the start of a place when a lot of 0:12:47.040 --> 0:12:51.200 tech companies are instituting hiring freezers and holiday season when 0:12:51.240 --> 0:12:53.360 things slow down. So you know, the more you can 0:12:53.400 --> 0:12:55.600 do for them, the better it is for them. Okay, 0:12:55.640 --> 0:12:57.480 So we I want to talk a little bit more 0:12:57.520 --> 0:13:03.200 about the Indians, because there there are a ton of 0:13:03.559 --> 0:13:07.880 H one b h A visa holders from India, uh 0:13:08.040 --> 0:13:10.160 many of them. As we were writing this story. I've 0:13:10.160 --> 0:13:13.720 been here for for years, and it seems like it's 0:13:13.840 --> 0:13:17.880 really hitting that country hard. These numbers right, So whom 0:13:17.920 --> 0:13:20.080 did you talk to and what do you learn from 0:13:20.120 --> 0:13:24.400 on the India quotion? I think you know, um a 0:13:24.440 --> 0:13:26.160 lot of people who come on H one B V. 0:13:26.280 --> 0:13:28.400 So it's like you mentioned drole, like the the goal 0:13:28.600 --> 0:13:31.760 is to eventually, you know, get permanent residency and citizenship. 0:13:31.800 --> 0:13:34.120 And for for a lot of folks like you know, 0:13:34.320 --> 0:13:36.520 you you stay on H one B for anywhere from 0:13:36.559 --> 0:13:39.280 three to six years. Your company starts working on your 0:13:39.280 --> 0:13:41.679 green card application, they file it and then you get 0:13:41.760 --> 0:13:43.680 your green card and you know, I want to say 0:13:44.160 --> 0:13:46.280 anywhere between one year or the three years or something 0:13:46.320 --> 0:13:50.080 of that sort. But with Indians and actually Chinese nationals 0:13:50.120 --> 0:13:52.000 like you file that green card and there's like a 0:13:52.080 --> 0:13:56.000 huge backlog because there's this rule that says that you know, 0:13:56.040 --> 0:13:57.800 you can own every country is allowed to get only 0:13:57.840 --> 0:14:01.360 seven percent of the green card and Indians and Chinese 0:14:01.400 --> 0:14:04.440 being a huge part of the tech force, have you know, 0:14:04.480 --> 0:14:08.440 immigrated on this reason larger numbers. So you know, particularly 0:14:08.440 --> 0:14:10.960 for Indians, you know, there are seven percent of the 0:14:10.960 --> 0:14:13.480 green cards reserved for them every year, which comes to 0:14:13.520 --> 0:14:15.760 around ten thousand green cards, and then there are five 0:14:15.840 --> 0:14:19.720 hundred thousand, uh nearly five hundred thousand um. You know 0:14:20.080 --> 0:14:22.360 holders who have applied for the green cards, so that 0:14:22.680 --> 0:14:24.880 so only ten thousand will keep getting every year. And 0:14:24.920 --> 0:14:27.040 the backlog is huge and it's growing. So you know, 0:14:27.120 --> 0:14:29.400 if you live for your green card today or if 0:14:29.440 --> 0:14:32.840 you applied for it in then the sillery could take 0:14:32.880 --> 0:14:35.640 as long as you may not. We unfortunately have to 0:14:35.680 --> 0:14:38.920 leave it there. Sindoja ranaj and Uh senior investigative data 0:14:38.920 --> 0:14:41.320 reporter for Bloomberg News. To be assume from San Francisco. 0:14:41.560 --> 0:14:45.600 This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and Bloomberg 0:14:45.680 --> 0:14:50.000 Quick Takes Tim Stinovic on Bloomberg Radio. We're to welcome 0:14:50.000 --> 0:14:52.880 in once against Sheen contractor. People listen to the program 0:14:52.920 --> 0:14:55.760 are familiar with her voice. She's E s G analysts 0:14:55.760 --> 0:14:57.760 for Bloomberg Intelligence. She's with us once again in the 0:14:57.760 --> 0:15:01.120 Bloomberg Interactor Broker Studio, fresh off of her recent trip 0:15:01.160 --> 0:15:04.840 to the Conference of Parties twenty seven. That's copy as 0:15:04.840 --> 0:15:08.080 it's known. She good to have you with us this afternoon. 0:15:08.160 --> 0:15:12.960 You just got back from Charmel Sheik, Egypt resort town. 0:15:13.000 --> 0:15:14.640 I know you did a lot of working there and 0:15:14.760 --> 0:15:19.360 not resorting. Okay, maybe some resorting, maybe some vacation. I 0:15:19.360 --> 0:15:21.360 hope you had some fun. First of all, what was 0:15:21.360 --> 0:15:23.400 cop like? I know this was your first one, so 0:15:23.520 --> 0:15:26.800 Tim Cupp was like nothing I've seen before. It was, 0:15:26.880 --> 0:15:30.720 you know, this two week conference where forty people just 0:15:30.920 --> 0:15:33.640 descent to talk about climate. I don't think I've ever 0:15:33.680 --> 0:15:36.680 been in that kind of environment. It's like very focused 0:15:36.720 --> 0:15:40.440 and there was so many interesting discussions, so many different things, 0:15:40.560 --> 0:15:44.600 especially around two things in particular. The first was really 0:15:44.720 --> 0:15:48.160 carbon markets. There was you know, people who were great supporters, 0:15:48.160 --> 0:15:51.600 there were people who are great sort of disbelievers. And 0:15:51.640 --> 0:15:55.080 the second one was around companies corbon reduction goals and 0:15:55.120 --> 0:15:57.840 the need to sort of just go beyond just paper 0:15:58.000 --> 0:16:02.200 de carbonization. I guess tell us about that debate there 0:16:02.360 --> 0:16:05.320 on carbon what is sort of the rallying cry for 0:16:05.360 --> 0:16:08.440 the advocates and what are the non believers saying. So 0:16:08.560 --> 0:16:11.840 when it comes to carbon markets, the goal is for 0:16:11.920 --> 0:16:15.840 companies to basically offset their own emissions by purchasing these 0:16:15.880 --> 0:16:19.720 credits from projects that remove common from the atmosphere. And 0:16:19.840 --> 0:16:23.200 basically the goal there has to be that sort of 0:16:23.240 --> 0:16:25.680 the price of carb and the cost of carbon has 0:16:25.720 --> 0:16:28.200 to pay for that additionality sort of without that the 0:16:28.240 --> 0:16:31.320 project might not have been viable, which makes it sort 0:16:31.320 --> 0:16:35.080 of an additionality. The the people who are against it 0:16:35.200 --> 0:16:37.560 believed that a lot of this money is going to 0:16:37.680 --> 0:16:40.440 go to works projects that are already financially viable. It's like, 0:16:40.680 --> 0:16:43.640 you know, a renewable project where it's cost competitive, it's 0:16:43.640 --> 0:16:46.280 going to be built anyway, there's no additionality, So the 0:16:46.320 --> 0:16:50.000 money is really going to nothing, I guess. So it's 0:16:50.000 --> 0:16:52.560 basically the point that you have to fund a project 0:16:53.200 --> 0:16:56.280 through offsets which otherwise wouldn't have existed. Okay, Well, you 0:16:56.320 --> 0:16:58.800 cover E s G for Bloomberg Intelligence, and a big 0:16:58.840 --> 0:17:00.440 part of your trip, of course, had to do with 0:17:00.560 --> 0:17:03.160 the way that you're writing reports about what you learn 0:17:03.240 --> 0:17:06.040 there and what investors can learn from the way that 0:17:06.400 --> 0:17:08.600 you know SG is being talked about at events like this. 0:17:08.880 --> 0:17:11.120 What's a big takeaway that you have for the Bloomberg 0:17:11.119 --> 0:17:14.120 Intelligence audience. So the one thing is, and I've said 0:17:14.160 --> 0:17:17.480 this before, but before God this year, before last year, 0:17:17.560 --> 0:17:20.160 companies are setting these Gorbon reduction goals at a pace 0:17:20.280 --> 0:17:24.439 we've never seen before. There were quite a few interesting 0:17:24.680 --> 0:17:29.240 talks that happened around actually sort of implementation, Like the UK, 0:17:29.400 --> 0:17:32.680 for example, had this new proposal during COP where you know, 0:17:32.720 --> 0:17:34.639 if a company has a goal, they have to have 0:17:34.680 --> 0:17:36.680 a plan on how to meet that good. I think 0:17:36.720 --> 0:17:40.000 that's the biggest takeaway. Even in our research, we find 0:17:40.040 --> 0:17:42.840 that out of the companies we've looked at, about eight 0:17:43.640 --> 0:17:47.360 have gobbon goals. But what do these actually mean? It's 0:17:47.440 --> 0:17:50.280 a huge gap. Yeah, I mean this is something I 0:17:50.320 --> 0:17:53.400 always think about, like how do you factor in goals 0:17:53.400 --> 0:17:56.640 such as that one when you're you know, thinking about 0:17:56.680 --> 0:17:59.880 a company's E s G score. Yeah, So that's sort 0:17:59.920 --> 0:18:03.080 of interesting because you know, when carbon is material, like 0:18:03.119 --> 0:18:07.639 for sectors like utilities, really sort of environmentally heavy sectors, 0:18:08.119 --> 0:18:11.080 that's when actually having a goal could have some kind 0:18:11.080 --> 0:18:14.080 of financial impacts. I think it comes down to materiality, 0:18:14.320 --> 0:18:16.520 what are the sectors by carbon matters, and how does 0:18:16.560 --> 0:18:20.040 it actually fuctor into your financial performance. I want to 0:18:20.080 --> 0:18:22.439 talk bigger picture COP because you were there and I 0:18:22.440 --> 0:18:24.760 haven't gotten to speak to many folks who were there. 0:18:25.520 --> 0:18:29.480 Does it do you leave with the impression that it's 0:18:29.560 --> 0:18:32.119 useful to the extent that all of these countries are 0:18:32.160 --> 0:18:35.800 going to leave and go back and work to reduce 0:18:35.880 --> 0:18:40.920 carbon emissions so we ultimately see a reduction in climate change. 0:18:41.280 --> 0:18:43.480 So Tim, I'll be honest. You know, before I went 0:18:43.560 --> 0:18:46.000 to this, I was really skeptic. I was like, why, 0:18:46.240 --> 0:18:50.920 what is the point of gathering? Blah blah. But then 0:18:50.960 --> 0:18:54.479 I spoke to a negotiator there and he told me 0:18:54.560 --> 0:18:56.520 one thing. He said, you know, shying, think back to 0:18:56.600 --> 0:19:01.640 Tift right. No, no, country don't net zero gulo had 0:19:01.680 --> 0:19:04.800 anything really to do with what sort of climate ambition. 0:19:05.240 --> 0:19:07.200 But look at where we are today, about a hundred 0:19:07.240 --> 0:19:11.000 and thirty plus companies have net zero goos. So you're 0:19:11.080 --> 0:19:14.920 to your it's kind of frustrating, but over the big picture, 0:19:15.680 --> 0:19:19.199 we've we have achieved something I guess and compared to 0:19:19.240 --> 0:19:21.879 business as usually if you think about it. So I 0:19:21.880 --> 0:19:25.560 feel better now we're talking about it. Yeah, exactly. See. 0:19:25.920 --> 0:19:29.600 Are you optimistic? Are you going next year? I hope? 0:19:29.680 --> 0:19:33.720 So I don't know. Are you optimistic though, just in 0:19:33.760 --> 0:19:36.160 the last thirty seconds that we have I am? I am? 0:19:36.240 --> 0:19:40.000 I think you know, given what companies are doing, given 0:19:40.040 --> 0:19:42.440 what countries are saying, given some of the things we've seen, 0:19:42.560 --> 0:19:45.720 I think I definitely am. Well, welcome back and thanks 0:19:45.760 --> 0:19:49.679 for sharing some of your experience with us. That Shaheen Contractors. 0:19:49.720 --> 0:19:54.359 She's environmental, social, and governance analyst at Bloomberg Intelligence, fresh 0:19:54.359 --> 0:19:57.600 offer trip from Charmel Shake where she was there for 0:19:57.840 --> 0:20:05.760 Copy seven a journal. Yeah, I'll bet you. Let me drive. 0:20:06.000 --> 0:20:10.399 Oh no, no, no no, no, honey, please, I'll do the 0:20:10.480 --> 0:20:17.400 bride revels. I want to drive. It's good question. Drive. 0:20:20.240 --> 0:20:26.679 This is the drive to the globe up on Bloomberg Radio. 0:20:27.280 --> 0:20:29.359 It's that time, already less than ten minutes to go 0:20:29.520 --> 0:20:33.840 to the end of trading here on this Monday, November two, 0:20:33.920 --> 0:20:36.720 Tim Stantovick and Katie Grydfeld relive in the Bloomberg Interactive 0:20:36.920 --> 0:20:39.480 Brokers the studio. Let's get to our drive to the close. 0:20:39.560 --> 0:20:43.200 Guest Eric Clarks, portfolio manager at Rational Dynamic Brands Fund. 0:20:43.240 --> 0:20:46.120 He joins us via Zoom from San Diego. Eric, good 0:20:46.119 --> 0:20:48.640 to have you with us. How are you, hey, Tim? 0:20:48.640 --> 0:20:50.320 How are you We're doing well. Thanks, It's good to 0:20:50.320 --> 0:20:54.280 have you back with us. Um, So help us understand 0:20:54.560 --> 0:20:56.880 the way that you're viewing the markets right now. We're 0:20:56.880 --> 0:20:58.760 getting to the close of the year, sort of the 0:20:58.760 --> 0:21:00.320 final sprint to the end of the year. It's a 0:21:00.320 --> 0:21:04.200 holiday week. We're seeing volumes down right now versus last 0:21:04.240 --> 0:21:10.800 twenty days on the SP five. How does the year end. Uh. 0:21:11.320 --> 0:21:13.080 You know that one's a bit of a toss up, 0:21:13.119 --> 0:21:15.320 to be quite honest with you, because we have tax 0:21:15.400 --> 0:21:18.920 laws selling, you know, at the end of the year, 0:21:19.680 --> 0:21:22.359 but we also have prices coming down to what I 0:21:22.400 --> 0:21:25.680 consider to be much more attractive than we've seen in 0:21:25.680 --> 0:21:28.240 in a number of years. And so you know, it's 0:21:28.240 --> 0:21:31.200 anybody's guests on the timing and when people do their 0:21:31.240 --> 0:21:34.119 tax laws selling. But we've certainly already done all that stuff, 0:21:34.119 --> 0:21:36.159 and now we're trying to pick away at some of 0:21:36.200 --> 0:21:39.480