1
00:00:00,880 --> 00:00:04,360
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound on podcast Catch us

2
00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:07,560
Speaker 1: live weekdays at one Eastern on Bloomberg dot com, the

3
00:00:07,640 --> 00:00:10,719
Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app and the Bloomberg Business app, or listening on

4
00:00:10,800 --> 00:00:12,800
Speaker 1: demand wherever you get your podcasts.

5
00:00:13,960 --> 00:00:17,280
Speaker 2: CNN getting props and pushback all at once, depending on

6
00:00:17,840 --> 00:00:20,680
Speaker 2: who you ask. After bringing Donald Trump to the dance

7
00:00:20,760 --> 00:00:23,919
Speaker 2: last night, you see it, we were watching so you

8
00:00:23,960 --> 00:00:27,760
Speaker 2: didn't have to. A primetime town hall moderated by Kaitlyn Collins,

9
00:00:27,800 --> 00:00:29,880
Speaker 2: who was reportedly prepping for this thing for a solid

10
00:00:29,920 --> 00:00:33,280
Speaker 2: week in Manchester before sharing the stage with the former

11
00:00:33,320 --> 00:00:37,240
Speaker 2: president in New Hampshire, the former president who leaned into

12
00:00:37,280 --> 00:00:40,360
Speaker 2: his claims of election fraud in twenty twenty in the

13
00:00:40,560 --> 00:00:43,559
Speaker 2: very first answer, as Collins tried to.

14
00:00:43,479 --> 00:00:45,599
Speaker 3: Push back what you just said, there were Republican officials

15
00:00:45,600 --> 00:00:48,360
Speaker 3: debunked those claims about fraudulent ballots.

16
00:00:49,040 --> 00:00:50,479
Speaker 4: We want to give you a chance tonight.

17
00:00:50,640 --> 00:00:54,360
Speaker 3: Who Republican officials Georgia and every single state.

18
00:00:54,760 --> 00:00:57,320
Speaker 4: There is no your own election officials, mister president.

19
00:00:57,480 --> 00:00:59,800
Speaker 5: So we wanted to get afraid to take on the issue.

20
00:01:00,040 --> 00:01:01,880
Speaker 5: But we have a big problem in this country. We

21
00:01:02,520 --> 00:01:06,280
Speaker 5: wanted we have elections that were horrible. If you look

22
00:01:06,319 --> 00:01:08,920
Speaker 5: at what happened in Pennsylvania, Philadelphia, if you look at

23
00:01:08,920 --> 00:01:11,840
Speaker 5: what happened in Detroit, Michigan, if you look at what

24
00:01:11,880 --> 00:01:16,160
Speaker 5: happened in Atlanta, millions of votes, And all you have

25
00:01:16,200 --> 00:01:18,160
Speaker 5: to do is take a look at government cameras. You'll

26
00:01:18,200 --> 00:01:20,880
Speaker 5: see them people going to twenty eight different voting booths

27
00:01:20,959 --> 00:01:23,279
Speaker 5: to vote to put in seven ballots apiece.

28
00:01:23,959 --> 00:01:26,200
Speaker 4: The role I can stop you there because there is

29
00:01:26,200 --> 00:01:26,920
Speaker 4: no evidence to night.

30
00:01:27,280 --> 00:01:32,480
Speaker 2: This was a recurring theme throughout the entire broadcast. Donald

31
00:01:32,520 --> 00:01:37,280
Speaker 2: Trump hasn't changed his tune at all in the past

32
00:01:37,360 --> 00:01:40,679
Speaker 2: few years. The broadcast that featured an audience stacked with

33
00:01:40,720 --> 00:01:44,440
Speaker 2: Trump supporters generating applause and laughter through most of his answers,

34
00:01:44,440 --> 00:01:46,720
Speaker 2: which was a big problem for a lot of viewers.

35
00:01:46,720 --> 00:01:48,480
Speaker 2: So we're going to walk you through some more of

36
00:01:48,560 --> 00:01:51,240
Speaker 2: what we heard last night. Some of it made news,

37
00:01:51,320 --> 00:01:55,160
Speaker 2: some of it you cannot call news. The CNN attempted

38
00:01:55,400 --> 00:01:59,160
Speaker 2: to fact check in real time, which might be a

39
00:01:59,200 --> 00:02:03,280
Speaker 2: fool's Errand at this point it's something we start to

40
00:02:03,320 --> 00:02:05,320
Speaker 2: talk about with Jane Hall. Glad to say is with

41
00:02:05,400 --> 00:02:08,160
Speaker 2: us Associate Professor of Journalism, Politics, and Media in the

42
00:02:08,160 --> 00:02:12,280
Speaker 2: School of Communication at American University. She's also author of

43
00:02:12,320 --> 00:02:15,919
Speaker 2: the book Politics and the Media, Intersections and New Directions. Jane,

44
00:02:16,000 --> 00:02:17,680
Speaker 2: it's great to have you back. I don't know what

45
00:02:17,760 --> 00:02:21,000
Speaker 2: intersection we found ourselves at last night, but it didn't

46
00:02:21,040 --> 00:02:23,400
Speaker 2: feel like much had progressed. And I wonder, just to

47
00:02:23,400 --> 00:02:26,600
Speaker 2: start off with, did you think this was a valid

48
00:02:27,200 --> 00:02:31,120
Speaker 2: appointment for CNN to have Donald Trump come on stage

49
00:02:31,200 --> 00:02:33,959
Speaker 2: like that for the first time since losing the election.

50
00:02:35,160 --> 00:02:37,160
Speaker 6: You know, I think we were at the intersection of

51
00:02:37,200 --> 00:02:41,120
Speaker 6: the train and a car and a crossing. I think

52
00:02:41,160 --> 00:02:45,440
Speaker 6: it was a training. I think it's CNN put Caitlin

53
00:02:45,520 --> 00:02:50,600
Speaker 6: Collins in a very difficult position. I had said before

54
00:02:50,880 --> 00:02:54,920
Speaker 6: that I thought it was potentially problematic because of the format.

55
00:02:55,360 --> 00:02:57,600
Speaker 6: You know, she was going to be trying to get

56
00:02:57,680 --> 00:02:59,959
Speaker 6: him on the record on a whole bunch of subjects,

57
00:03:00,200 --> 00:03:02,960
Speaker 6: even before the Eging Carol verdict, and you had this

58
00:03:03,080 --> 00:03:07,040
Speaker 6: audience and they laughed at her. I mean, he enabled

59
00:03:07,440 --> 00:03:10,359
Speaker 6: their bad behavior, in my view, and they laughed at her.

60
00:03:11,160 --> 00:03:14,000
Speaker 6: I thought they should at least have postponed it after

61
00:03:14,040 --> 00:03:17,040
Speaker 6: the Egen Carol a verdict, because he then went after

62
00:03:17,080 --> 00:03:21,680
Speaker 6: her and defied her again. I think that Collins tried heroically,

63
00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:25,120
Speaker 6: but I guess what we have as a preview of

64
00:03:25,200 --> 00:03:27,560
Speaker 6: what the media and his opponents are going to be

65
00:03:27,639 --> 00:03:31,079
Speaker 6: up against, and people need to be better prepared than

66
00:03:31,120 --> 00:03:33,280
Speaker 6: I think CNN was in that format.

67
00:03:33,440 --> 00:03:35,320
Speaker 2: Well is it even possible, though, or is it a

68
00:03:35,360 --> 00:03:38,640
Speaker 2: fool's errand Jane to try to put somebody in that

69
00:03:38,680 --> 00:03:42,520
Speaker 2: position as you referenced, Caitlyn Collins put in a horrible position.

70
00:03:42,840 --> 00:03:45,720
Speaker 2: I'm sure it raised her profile, but is it good

71
00:03:45,800 --> 00:03:49,920
Speaker 2: journalism to attempt to have one individual fact check someone

72
00:03:50,040 --> 00:03:51,440
Speaker 2: like Donald Trump in real time?

73
00:03:52,480 --> 00:03:55,160
Speaker 6: You know, I'm just not sure it's possible, because the

74
00:03:55,280 --> 00:03:59,880
Speaker 6: man has tremendous presence and tremendous appeal to the people

75
00:04:00,160 --> 00:04:04,040
Speaker 6: whom he appeals and the audience. You know, it appeared

76
00:04:04,440 --> 00:04:08,800
Speaker 6: that she was overwhelmed at times by his just blustering

77
00:04:08,960 --> 00:04:11,880
Speaker 6: and lying. You know, the New York Times was live

78
00:04:11,920 --> 00:04:14,320
Speaker 6: blogging this with three or four people who cover Trump

79
00:04:14,360 --> 00:04:17,719
Speaker 6: all the time, or did I'm not sure it's possible.

80
00:04:17,880 --> 00:04:21,279
Speaker 6: And I think, you know, I I when when they've

81
00:04:21,320 --> 00:04:24,800
Speaker 6: had other one on one town halls, they were always

82
00:04:24,839 --> 00:04:28,080
Speaker 6: a little bit stilted. But he just he ran, he

83
00:04:28,240 --> 00:04:32,240
Speaker 6: ran over the format, And I suppose if you're Joe

84
00:04:32,240 --> 00:04:35,320
Speaker 6: Biden and his team and other Republican people who are

85
00:04:35,360 --> 00:04:39,400
Speaker 6: thinking about going against him, I mean, it's a cautionary tale. Uh,

86
00:04:39,800 --> 00:04:42,760
Speaker 6: how are these debates going to be? I just think

87
00:04:42,800 --> 00:04:45,839
Speaker 6: it was an ill advised decision. The timing of it

88
00:04:45,880 --> 00:04:49,160
Speaker 6: was what what to me was problematic even before the

89
00:04:49,160 --> 00:04:53,360
Speaker 6: Egene Carol verdict, Why him? Why now? Except for ratings,

90
00:04:53,480 --> 00:04:55,680
Speaker 6: and I'm sure that's not what they would say they

91
00:04:55,680 --> 00:04:57,840
Speaker 6: were doing it for. But but the way this turned

92
00:04:57,839 --> 00:04:58,680
Speaker 6: out was really bad.

93
00:04:58,839 --> 00:05:01,599
Speaker 2: I just wonder if people have unrealistic expectations. If you

94
00:05:01,600 --> 00:05:05,080
Speaker 2: look at Twitter this morning, they're destroying Caitlin Collins for

95
00:05:05,160 --> 00:05:08,680
Speaker 2: not being some super computer that could fact check a

96
00:05:08,920 --> 00:05:11,560
Speaker 2: shower of untruths in real time. I mean that that

97
00:05:11,720 --> 00:05:14,520
Speaker 2: just doesn't seem to be realistic to me anymore. Jane,

98
00:05:14,560 --> 00:05:15,200
Speaker 2: Maybe I'm wrong.

99
00:05:16,080 --> 00:05:18,520
Speaker 6: No, Joe, I think you're really right, you know. And

100
00:05:18,600 --> 00:05:21,039
Speaker 6: I think there was a lot of misogyny in the

101
00:05:21,080 --> 00:05:25,120
Speaker 6: way the audience reacted, frankly, and there's misogyny in the

102
00:05:25,120 --> 00:05:27,440
Speaker 6: way he treats women. He called her an asking woman.

103
00:05:27,680 --> 00:05:31,279
Speaker 6: I think to your point that there's no way she

104
00:05:31,360 --> 00:05:36,840
Speaker 6: could have tried to respond and fact checked everything I mean,

105
00:05:36,880 --> 00:05:39,400
Speaker 6: I think when he the only criticism I would make

106
00:05:39,600 --> 00:05:43,160
Speaker 6: was to have called him more. On January sixth, he

107
00:05:43,240 --> 00:05:46,800
Speaker 6: pulls out this phony timeline. He didn't respond for hours.

108
00:05:47,200 --> 00:05:47,359
Speaker 7: You know.

109
00:05:47,440 --> 00:05:49,480
Speaker 6: I think he could have been she could have said

110
00:05:49,520 --> 00:05:52,679
Speaker 6: there was a gallows for Mike Pence, because right after

111
00:05:52,800 --> 00:05:55,640
Speaker 6: you tweeted this, that's the one critique I would have

112
00:05:56,200 --> 00:05:58,800
Speaker 6: that she might have pushed back further. But it was

113
00:05:58,839 --> 00:06:01,039
Speaker 6: a fire hose, I mean, vixar metaphors.

114
00:06:01,080 --> 00:06:01,880
Speaker 2: He it was.

115
00:06:02,279 --> 00:06:04,240
Speaker 6: I don't think it's fair to go after her. I

116
00:06:04,360 --> 00:06:07,240
Speaker 6: think I think CNN put her in a terrible position.

117
00:06:07,400 --> 00:06:12,159
Speaker 6: She behaved heroically, and that's not good enough in a

118
00:06:12,200 --> 00:06:15,440
Speaker 6: lot of ways. I think giving him a live platform

119
00:06:15,600 --> 00:06:19,279
Speaker 6: like that with an audience of that kind, I think

120
00:06:19,320 --> 00:06:22,360
Speaker 6: it was they probably should have predicted where it was

121
00:06:22,400 --> 00:06:24,840
Speaker 6: going to go. And then when they had the Eugene

122
00:06:24,920 --> 00:06:28,200
Speaker 6: Carroll verdict the day before, did anybody think maybe they

123
00:06:28,200 --> 00:06:29,240
Speaker 6: should postpone it.

124
00:06:29,400 --> 00:06:31,920
Speaker 2: Well, some asked them to, and they were clearly they

125
00:06:31,920 --> 00:06:33,520
Speaker 2: thought they were prepped and ready to go on this.

126
00:06:33,560 --> 00:06:36,559
Speaker 2: But you mentioned that moment when he talked about eging Carroll,

127
00:06:36,560 --> 00:06:39,200
Speaker 2: he was asked about it by Caitlyn Collins. He did

128
00:06:39,440 --> 00:06:42,000
Speaker 2: defame her repeatedly on stage, which of course he was

129
00:06:42,040 --> 00:06:44,719
Speaker 2: just found liable for doing. But also we can kind

130
00:06:44,720 --> 00:06:47,080
Speaker 2: of touch two points here, the way he handled the

131
00:06:47,120 --> 00:06:50,400
Speaker 2: eging Carroll story and the way the audience responded, listen to.

132
00:06:50,360 --> 00:06:53,320
Speaker 5: This this woman. I don't know her, I never met her.

133
00:06:53,600 --> 00:06:55,719
Speaker 5: I have no idea who she is. I had a

134
00:06:55,720 --> 00:06:58,680
Speaker 5: picture taken years ago with her and her husband, nice guy,

135
00:06:58,760 --> 00:07:01,920
Speaker 5: John Johnson. He was a newscaster, a very nice man.

136
00:07:02,320 --> 00:07:05,520
Speaker 5: She called him an ape. Happens to be African American,

137
00:07:05,600 --> 00:07:07,680
Speaker 5: called him an ape. The judge wouln't allow us to

138
00:07:07,680 --> 00:07:12,600
Speaker 5: put that in Her dog or her cat was named Vagina.

139
00:07:13,160 --> 00:07:15,600
Speaker 5: The judge weren't allowed to put that in all of

140
00:07:15,640 --> 00:07:18,440
Speaker 5: these things, but with her they could put in anything.

141
00:07:18,560 --> 00:07:21,960
Speaker 2: Now he went even further and sort of mocked what

142
00:07:22,160 --> 00:07:25,119
Speaker 2: was her story about what happened in the department store

143
00:07:25,160 --> 00:07:27,680
Speaker 2: that day? If you just tuned in, you'd think he

144
00:07:27,760 --> 00:07:29,360
Speaker 2: might have even been admitting to it. But he did

145
00:07:29,360 --> 00:07:31,240
Speaker 2: it in the first person to try to sound as

146
00:07:31,320 --> 00:07:32,320
Speaker 2: ridiculous as possible.

147
00:07:32,360 --> 00:07:34,600
Speaker 5: I met her in the front door, a Bergdoff goodman.

148
00:07:34,840 --> 00:07:37,880
Speaker 5: I was immediately attracted to her. She was immediately attracted

149
00:07:37,880 --> 00:07:41,720
Speaker 5: to me, and we had this great chemistry. We'll walking

150
00:07:41,800 --> 00:07:45,280
Speaker 5: into a crowded department. So we had this great chemistry,

151
00:07:45,440 --> 00:07:48,240
Speaker 5: and a few minutes later we end up in a room,

152
00:07:48,280 --> 00:07:52,000
Speaker 5: a dressing room, a Burgdoff Goodman, right near the cash register.

153
00:07:52,920 --> 00:07:54,640
Speaker 5: And then she found out there are locks in the door.

154
00:07:54,720 --> 00:07:56,760
Speaker 5: So she said, I found one that was open. She

155
00:07:56,840 --> 00:07:59,200
Speaker 5: found one. She learned this a trial. She found one

156
00:07:59,200 --> 00:08:01,960
Speaker 5: that was open. Well, kind of a woman meets somebody

157
00:08:02,440 --> 00:08:05,480
Speaker 5: and brings him up and within minutes you're playing hanky

158
00:08:05,560 --> 00:08:06,840
Speaker 5: panky and addressing room.

159
00:08:06,880 --> 00:08:09,440
Speaker 2: Okay, it almost sounds like there's a laugh track, but

160
00:08:09,480 --> 00:08:12,120
Speaker 2: these were real supporters in the room here, Jane. So

161
00:08:12,280 --> 00:08:14,800
Speaker 2: I guess it's two questions. Number one, does that impact

162
00:08:14,800 --> 00:08:16,160
Speaker 2: his appeal? And I don't want to make you a

163
00:08:16,240 --> 00:08:19,080
Speaker 2: legal analyst right now. Maybe a better question is did

164
00:08:19,160 --> 00:08:22,840
Speaker 2: CNN fail specifically in assembling that audience?

165
00:08:24,560 --> 00:08:28,040
Speaker 6: I wonder how they did assemble that audience? Did I

166
00:08:28,160 --> 00:08:31,880
Speaker 6: think that I think that they were surprised and so

167
00:08:32,280 --> 00:08:35,200
Speaker 6: they probably didn't pay enough attention. Again, I don't know

168
00:08:35,240 --> 00:08:37,800
Speaker 6: how they booked it. I gather they relied on the

169
00:08:37,840 --> 00:08:41,440
Speaker 6: Republican Party up there. It was shocking that they I mean,

170
00:08:41,520 --> 00:08:43,920
Speaker 6: he has a lot of appeal to the people in

171
00:08:43,960 --> 00:08:45,760
Speaker 6: the primaries that he has appealed to.

172
00:08:46,600 --> 00:08:47,640
Speaker 8: But I do.

173
00:08:47,520 --> 00:08:51,440
Speaker 6: Wonder, you know, given his proclivities, and given that that

174
00:08:51,600 --> 00:08:57,319
Speaker 6: verdict came the day before the laughter at Egan Carroll

175
00:08:57,440 --> 00:09:01,880
Speaker 6: and the laughter when Caitlyn tried to push back, I

176
00:09:01,960 --> 00:09:04,640
Speaker 6: wonder who booked it. I mean, I haven't seen that yet.

177
00:09:04,640 --> 00:09:07,040
Speaker 6: That's what I would want to know. Who thought this

178
00:09:07,200 --> 00:09:09,640
Speaker 6: was a great idea? Is question number one? And then

179
00:09:09,760 --> 00:09:13,760
Speaker 6: where did that audience come from? It was overwhelmingly trump

180
00:09:14,000 --> 00:09:16,880
Speaker 6: I mean every question except for one where he was

181
00:09:16,920 --> 00:09:19,600
Speaker 6: asked a couple of other questions and he turned it.

182
00:09:19,960 --> 00:09:23,880
Speaker 6: He still turned it back onto the kind of lives

183
00:09:23,880 --> 00:09:24,720
Speaker 6: that he said.

184
00:09:24,760 --> 00:09:28,240
Speaker 2: All the time, I was looking at a Twitter thread

185
00:09:28,240 --> 00:09:33,040
Speaker 2: from Brian Stelter, formerly of Course of CNN is sort

186
00:09:33,080 --> 00:09:35,680
Speaker 2: of the ombudsman. I forget what his actual title was,

187
00:09:35,720 --> 00:09:39,000
Speaker 2: but he's live tweeting this meeting with Chris Licked and

188
00:09:39,080 --> 00:09:41,920
Speaker 2: an outrage staff at nine am this morning, an editorial

189
00:09:41,920 --> 00:09:44,079
Speaker 2: call because a lot of people at CNN were upset

190
00:09:44,080 --> 00:09:47,040
Speaker 2: that this took place and objected to it. He says.

191
00:09:47,360 --> 00:09:50,640
Speaker 2: Licked began the meeting by praising Caitlyn Collins for a

192
00:09:50,720 --> 00:09:53,720
Speaker 2: quote masterful performance last night. Couldn't have been more proud

193
00:09:53,760 --> 00:09:56,559
Speaker 2: of her, And he went on to address the controversy.

194
00:09:56,600 --> 00:09:58,880
Speaker 2: He said, you don't have to like the former president's answers,

195
00:09:59,160 --> 00:10:01,400
Speaker 2: but you can say you can't say, rather that we

196
00:10:01,480 --> 00:10:04,360
Speaker 2: didn't get them. Caitlin pressed him again and again and

197
00:10:04,440 --> 00:10:06,959
Speaker 2: made news, a lot of news, and that is our job.

198
00:10:07,720 --> 00:10:12,480
Speaker 2: So I guess I would come back to the idea, Jane,

199
00:10:12,559 --> 00:10:16,360
Speaker 2: of covering this candidacy at large. What did we learn

200
00:10:16,480 --> 00:10:21,240
Speaker 2: last night about covering Donald Trump as actual journalists over

201
00:10:21,280 --> 00:10:21,880
Speaker 2: the next year.

202
00:10:23,000 --> 00:10:25,800
Speaker 6: Well, this is a wonderful question, you know. I mean,

203
00:10:26,160 --> 00:10:30,720
Speaker 6: I will say there's certainly legitimate news value in interviewing

204
00:10:31,040 --> 00:10:34,040
Speaker 6: the front runner. I mean that was their rationale. And

205
00:10:34,360 --> 00:10:37,800
Speaker 6: I think that the media, the news media written large,

206
00:10:37,880 --> 00:10:42,880
Speaker 6: gave Donald Trump live rallies be an ended this. In

207
00:10:42,960 --> 00:10:46,440
Speaker 6: many ways, Trump lives on the air of the media

208
00:10:46,520 --> 00:10:50,839
Speaker 6: while beating up the media. And I think that we

209
00:10:50,920 --> 00:10:53,320
Speaker 6: need to think about we and the media need to

210
00:10:53,320 --> 00:10:56,679
Speaker 6: think about how can he be covered If if this

211
00:10:56,720 --> 00:10:59,120
Speaker 6: is how he's going to be and this is how

212
00:10:59,120 --> 00:11:02,680
Speaker 6: he's going to behave, what will the debates be like?

213
00:11:03,240 --> 00:11:05,720
Speaker 6: Will anybody go after him? I mean, Chris Christie's one

214
00:11:05,760 --> 00:11:08,320
Speaker 6: of the few people who and Mitt Romney who has

215
00:11:08,360 --> 00:11:11,640
Speaker 6: condemned him. The Republican Party has some role to play

216
00:11:11,640 --> 00:11:14,480
Speaker 6: in this that in their absence, the news media are

217
00:11:14,600 --> 00:11:17,200
Speaker 6: going to have to do a kind of a rerun

218
00:11:17,240 --> 00:11:19,920
Speaker 6: of twenty sixteen and do it better if he is

219
00:11:19,960 --> 00:11:22,520
Speaker 6: in fact the prominent figure we think he may be.

220
00:11:23,400 --> 00:11:25,440
Speaker 2: I'm really glad you could join us. Jane Hall, Associate

221
00:11:25,440 --> 00:11:28,200
Speaker 2: Professor Journalism, Politics, Media at the School of Communication at

222
00:11:28,240 --> 00:11:32,080
Speaker 2: American University. Getting us started today on Bloomberg's sound on

223
00:11:32,120 --> 00:11:33,920
Speaker 2: It's the day after the town Hall. It's the day

224
00:11:34,000 --> 00:11:35,880
Speaker 2: title forty two lists. We have a lot to talk about.

225
00:11:35,960 --> 00:11:39,559
Speaker 2: Let's assemble the panel. Bloomberg Politics contributors Genie Shanzano and

226
00:11:39,640 --> 00:11:44,360
Speaker 2: Rick Davis are back with us. Rick, when you consider

227
00:11:44,960 --> 00:11:48,000
Speaker 2: this broadcast last evening and we can walk through more

228
00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:49,360
Speaker 2: of this, We're going to have time for it. He

229
00:11:49,440 --> 00:11:52,920
Speaker 2: talked about Mike Pence, he talked about Ashley Babbitt. There's

230
00:11:52,960 --> 00:11:55,520
Speaker 2: a lot there to go through. But just to begin with,

231
00:11:55,600 --> 00:11:58,360
Speaker 2: did CNN make an error or was that the right

232
00:11:58,400 --> 00:12:01,160
Speaker 2: thing to do in hosting a front runner for a

233
00:12:01,160 --> 00:12:01,920
Speaker 2: town hall like that?

234
00:12:02,600 --> 00:12:04,480
Speaker 9: Yeah? I look I think it's an error. I think

235
00:12:04,600 --> 00:12:08,160
Speaker 9: my own estimation is a basically were enablers for Donald

236
00:12:08,160 --> 00:12:12,760
Speaker 9: Trump's you know, misinformation machine. They didn't do enough to

237
00:12:13,559 --> 00:12:14,559
Speaker 9: correct the record.

238
00:12:14,840 --> 00:12:14,960
Speaker 10: Uh.

239
00:12:15,440 --> 00:12:17,040
Speaker 9: And it's not enough to just say, well, he was

240
00:12:17,120 --> 00:12:19,760
Speaker 9: lying all the time. Well then right, you think he's

241
00:12:19,840 --> 00:12:22,560
Speaker 9: lying all the time, then then you can't you can't

242
00:12:22,559 --> 00:12:24,680
Speaker 9: do an interview where you're not prepared to answer for

243
00:12:24,720 --> 00:12:29,000
Speaker 9: those lies. And so no matter what you prepare to do,

244
00:12:29,160 --> 00:12:33,520
Speaker 9: if the end product is an audience like that, in

245
00:12:33,600 --> 00:12:36,000
Speaker 9: a forum like that, where Donald Trump is not held

246
00:12:36,000 --> 00:12:39,079
Speaker 9: to account for anything he said that was a downright lie,

247
00:12:39,679 --> 00:12:42,520
Speaker 9: then you know, I don't see how any other news

248
00:12:42,600 --> 00:12:45,600
Speaker 9: organization wants to replicate this, right, I mean, why go

249
00:12:45,679 --> 00:12:48,400
Speaker 9: through the effort? And by the way, same with the GOP.

250
00:12:48,960 --> 00:12:50,680
Speaker 9: Are you going to have debates where this guy is

251
00:12:50,720 --> 00:12:52,760
Speaker 9: not going to be fact checked? Well, you can't fact

252
00:12:52,840 --> 00:12:55,760
Speaker 9: check him, So do you really include him in your debates?

253
00:12:56,120 --> 00:12:58,400
Speaker 2: Well, of course you've suggested he may not include himself

254
00:12:58,440 --> 00:13:02,400
Speaker 2: in any of these debates, which really ringing true lately. Genie,

255
00:13:03,400 --> 00:13:05,800
Speaker 2: what did we learn last night? Are you not going

256
00:13:05,880 --> 00:13:08,200
Speaker 2: to talk to the front runner if he ends up

257
00:13:08,200 --> 00:13:09,080
Speaker 2: being the nominee?

258
00:13:09,800 --> 00:13:12,040
Speaker 11: I think the lesson is you talk to him. But

259
00:13:12,160 --> 00:13:15,520
Speaker 11: to Jane's point, the format and forum have to be

260
00:13:15,600 --> 00:13:18,760
Speaker 11: thought out carefully. And what it reminded me of all

261
00:13:18,880 --> 00:13:22,480
Speaker 11: night last night was an infamous interview Donald Trump did

262
00:13:22,520 --> 00:13:27,079
Speaker 11: with The New York Times in twenty seventeen where he said, newspapers, television,

263
00:13:27,120 --> 00:13:29,360
Speaker 11: all forms of media will tank if I'm not there

264
00:13:29,400 --> 00:13:32,120
Speaker 11: because without me, their ratings are going down the tubes.

265
00:13:32,520 --> 00:13:35,200
Speaker 11: He has been playing this over and over again. Jane

266
00:13:35,200 --> 00:13:38,040
Speaker 11: is absolutely right. On the one hand, they're his oxygen.

267
00:13:38,080 --> 00:13:40,840
Speaker 11: On the other hand, he's he's berating them. And so

268
00:13:40,960 --> 00:13:44,760
Speaker 11: we're seeing, as you mentioned, pushback from people inside CNN

269
00:13:45,080 --> 00:13:47,560
Speaker 11: as to how this was done and why it was done.

270
00:13:47,720 --> 00:13:50,760
Speaker 11: So this is a risk for them alienating their own employees,

271
00:13:50,880 --> 00:13:53,480
Speaker 11: let alone other people. So I think, you know, you

272
00:13:53,640 --> 00:13:55,320
Speaker 11: have to interview him, but I think you have to

273
00:13:55,320 --> 00:13:58,559
Speaker 11: think very carefully about how that is done, and it

274
00:13:58,640 --> 00:14:00,800
Speaker 11: has to be done in a way that tries to

275
00:14:00,840 --> 00:14:04,880
Speaker 11: elicit an ability to fact check him and to hold

276
00:14:04,960 --> 00:14:07,920
Speaker 11: him accountable for what he says. I think NBC was

277
00:14:07,960 --> 00:14:10,640
Speaker 11: able to do that with Savannah Guthrie, as we all remember,

278
00:14:10,720 --> 00:14:13,800
Speaker 11: they did it quite well that one time. So it's doable,

279
00:14:14,000 --> 00:14:16,120
Speaker 11: but this was certainly not the way and I am

280
00:14:16,160 --> 00:14:17,840
Speaker 11: a fan of Caitlin Collins.

281
00:14:18,200 --> 00:14:19,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, boy, look, there's a lot here we need to

282
00:14:20,000 --> 00:14:22,360
Speaker 2: talk about this idea of real time fact checking and

283
00:14:22,400 --> 00:14:24,600
Speaker 2: whether we need to actually reinvent the way we're doing

284
00:14:24,680 --> 00:14:28,120
Speaker 2: things on the media side, because God knows, the politics

285
00:14:28,160 --> 00:14:31,080
Speaker 2: are being reinvented on a daily basis. We're gonna have

286
00:14:31,120 --> 00:14:32,960
Speaker 2: a lot more with our panel, Rick and Jeanie straight

287
00:14:32,960 --> 00:14:34,600
Speaker 2: ahead on sound on. This is Bloomberg.

288
00:14:35,920 --> 00:14:39,320
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound On podcast. Catch the

289
00:14:39,320 --> 00:14:43,200
Speaker 1: program live weekdays at one Eastern on Bloomberg Radio, the

290
00:14:43,280 --> 00:14:45,280
Speaker 1: tune in app, Bloomberg dot Com, and.

291
00:14:45,280 --> 00:14:46,600
Speaker 12: The Bloomberg Business App.

292
00:14:46,760 --> 00:14:49,600
Speaker 1: You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our

293
00:14:49,640 --> 00:14:54,120
Speaker 1: flagship New York station, Just say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven thirty.

294
00:14:55,560 --> 00:14:58,320
Speaker 2: Spending time with our panel after the big Trump town

295
00:14:58,400 --> 00:15:01,920
Speaker 2: hall on CNN and in enormous criticism all the way around,

296
00:15:01,960 --> 00:15:04,840
Speaker 2: the network's getting dang for putting him on. Kaitlyn Collins

297
00:15:05,360 --> 00:15:09,400
Speaker 2: is taking massive flack on social media for not being

298
00:15:09,440 --> 00:15:14,520
Speaker 2: a supercomputer able to fact check in real time, and

299
00:15:14,560 --> 00:15:16,320
Speaker 2: a lot of us are wondering if the rules are

300
00:15:16,400 --> 00:15:18,920
Speaker 2: changing here a little bit. Rick Davis and Jeanie Shanzino

301
00:15:19,640 --> 00:15:21,600
Speaker 2: are back with a little bit more here. I guess, Rick,

302
00:15:21,680 --> 00:15:26,120
Speaker 2: the idea of journalists approaching this. You know, everyone's trying

303
00:15:26,160 --> 00:15:29,360
Speaker 2: so hard to be to at least appear to be unbiased.

304
00:15:29,400 --> 00:15:31,800
Speaker 2: Everyone's trying to play by certain rules. But if the

305
00:15:31,880 --> 00:15:35,800
Speaker 2: candidate isn't playing by rules, then that doesn't work real well.

306
00:15:35,800 --> 00:15:39,280
Speaker 2: And I remember the famous Jonathan Swan interview when he

307
00:15:39,320 --> 00:15:42,960
Speaker 2: sat down with Donald Trump, probably the most effective interview

308
00:15:42,960 --> 00:15:44,520
Speaker 2: that we've seen with him. This is back when he

309
00:15:44,600 --> 00:15:47,400
Speaker 2: was president, of course, but there was no audience there

310
00:15:47,400 --> 00:15:50,160
Speaker 2: for that either. There were so many different elements that

311
00:15:50,320 --> 00:15:51,440
Speaker 2: made this not work.

312
00:15:51,760 --> 00:15:51,960
Speaker 12: Rick.

313
00:15:52,040 --> 00:15:54,440
Speaker 2: But I just wonder when it comes to the journalist here,

314
00:15:54,880 --> 00:15:57,560
Speaker 2: why would you put your career on the line to

315
00:15:58,040 --> 00:16:00,640
Speaker 2: try to attempt to fact check in real time? Are

316
00:16:00,640 --> 00:16:02,680
Speaker 2: we beyond that being a realistic proposition?

317
00:16:02,960 --> 00:16:03,160
Speaker 12: Yeah?

318
00:16:03,160 --> 00:16:06,280
Speaker 9: I think it's a faulty premise that somehow the onus

319
00:16:06,360 --> 00:16:09,400
Speaker 9: is on the media to fact check Donald Trump. I mean,

320
00:16:09,440 --> 00:16:11,520
Speaker 9: the owners should be on Donald Trump to tell the truth.

321
00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:14,360
Speaker 9: And if he can't tell the truth, and I think

322
00:16:14,600 --> 00:16:17,760
Speaker 9: the answer to that is pretty obvious. He cannot tell

323
00:16:17,800 --> 00:16:22,840
Speaker 9: the truth. He hasn't even tried. He is a misinformation machine.

324
00:16:23,320 --> 00:16:25,920
Speaker 9: And so why in the world, if you're a media company,

325
00:16:26,160 --> 00:16:29,840
Speaker 9: CNN or anybody else, would you give him time to

326
00:16:29,960 --> 00:16:33,920
Speaker 9: spread misinformation. It is not your job to be a

327
00:16:33,960 --> 00:16:37,200
Speaker 9: fact checker, but it is your job to be an editor.

328
00:16:37,400 --> 00:16:40,560
Speaker 9: And the editor's decision to put him on the TV

329
00:16:41,000 --> 00:16:43,840
Speaker 9: and to give him an audience of his choice is

330
00:16:44,600 --> 00:16:47,040
Speaker 9: just to me a huge flaw in the way you

331
00:16:47,080 --> 00:16:48,240
Speaker 9: approached Donald Trump.

332
00:16:48,960 --> 00:16:50,840
Speaker 2: This was CNN trying to get back on the map

333
00:16:50,840 --> 00:16:53,920
Speaker 2: here Genie, trying to write the ship. I don't know

334
00:16:53,960 --> 00:16:55,960
Speaker 2: they want to go back to the old CNN. They're

335
00:16:56,000 --> 00:17:00,680
Speaker 2: saying it doesn't seem to be working at least in

336
00:17:00,760 --> 00:17:04,879
Speaker 2: that effect. Or the rules changing for the media side

337
00:17:04,920 --> 00:17:06,360
Speaker 2: just like they are for the politicians.

338
00:17:07,240 --> 00:17:09,760
Speaker 11: You know, I think that they've been the same rules

339
00:17:09,800 --> 00:17:12,439
Speaker 11: that we've had with Donald Trump. And you know, I

340
00:17:12,480 --> 00:17:16,760
Speaker 11: am always hesitant to blame the media. You know, they

341
00:17:16,880 --> 00:17:19,120
Speaker 11: have a job to do. It is a tough job,

342
00:17:19,160 --> 00:17:21,520
Speaker 11: and I do think mistakes were made with the format,

343
00:17:21,600 --> 00:17:24,280
Speaker 11: the forum last night, the audience, and so there's you know,

344
00:17:24,359 --> 00:17:27,720
Speaker 11: certainly blame to go around. That said, I would add

345
00:17:27,760 --> 00:17:30,560
Speaker 11: to what Rick said The onus is on Trump. The

346
00:17:30,600 --> 00:17:34,919
Speaker 11: onus is also on the leaders of his party. Where

347
00:17:35,040 --> 00:17:38,479
Speaker 11: is the Republican Party in all of this? They have

348
00:17:38,600 --> 00:17:42,840
Speaker 11: a responsibility here. They've been terribly weakened, but they have

349
00:17:42,920 --> 00:17:46,480
Speaker 11: a responsibility here. And good for Liz Cheney, good for

350
00:17:46,800 --> 00:17:49,200
Speaker 11: Romney and others who have stood up and said enough

351
00:17:49,320 --> 00:17:52,200
Speaker 11: is enough. So I think, you know, sure, we can

352
00:17:52,200 --> 00:17:55,480
Speaker 11: blame the media, and there's a lot blame, but where

353
00:17:55,520 --> 00:17:57,720
Speaker 11: is the Republican Party in all of this? And you know,

354
00:17:57,800 --> 00:17:59,720
Speaker 11: let's look at the flip side. Who's the winner in

355
00:17:59,760 --> 00:18:04,200
Speaker 11: all this? Joe Biden and the Democratic Party Because there

356
00:18:04,240 --> 00:18:07,439
Speaker 11: is nobody who decided they were going to vote for

357
00:18:07,480 --> 00:18:09,760
Speaker 11: Biden or stay home in twenty Who is going to

358
00:18:09,840 --> 00:18:11,800
Speaker 11: listen to that and decide, oh, you know, that's a

359
00:18:11,840 --> 00:18:14,320
Speaker 11: really attractive candidate. Let me get out and switch my vote,

360
00:18:14,400 --> 00:18:16,320
Speaker 11: or get out there and vote for Trump. So he's

361
00:18:16,400 --> 00:18:19,920
Speaker 11: not going to gain votes by this, The Republican Party loses,

362
00:18:20,280 --> 00:18:23,040
Speaker 11: Joe Biden wins. This has been the story with Donald

363
00:18:23,080 --> 00:18:26,040
Speaker 11: Trump all along, since he started his quest for the

364
00:18:26,040 --> 00:18:29,560
Speaker 11: presidency way back in you know, twenty fifteen.

365
00:18:29,840 --> 00:18:31,879
Speaker 2: So much of the back and forth had to do

366
00:18:32,000 --> 00:18:36,080
Speaker 2: with the election in twenty twenty, which he still says,

367
00:18:36,560 --> 00:18:39,320
Speaker 2: just full throated, just completely just talking over Caitlyn Collins,

368
00:18:39,400 --> 00:18:42,320
Speaker 2: the many examples he had as to why the election

369
00:18:42,440 --> 00:18:45,280
Speaker 2: was stolen, and then to January sixth, of course, the

370
00:18:45,320 --> 00:18:48,160
Speaker 2: fallout from that whole conversation. He was asked about Mike

371
00:18:48,240 --> 00:18:51,960
Speaker 2: Pence and whether he regrets putting his former vice presidents

372
00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:52,480
Speaker 2: in danger.

373
00:18:52,560 --> 00:18:55,800
Speaker 3: Mike Pence, who says that you endangered his life on

374
00:18:55,880 --> 00:18:56,320
Speaker 3: that day.

375
00:18:56,520 --> 00:18:58,320
Speaker 4: I don't think he was in any danger.

376
00:18:58,080 --> 00:19:00,840
Speaker 3: Mister president. Do you feel that you owe him an apology?

377
00:19:01,280 --> 00:19:03,560
Speaker 5: No, because he did something wrong. He should have put

378
00:19:03,560 --> 00:19:06,080
Speaker 5: the votes back to the state legislatures, and I think

379
00:19:06,080 --> 00:19:07,480
Speaker 5: we would have had a different outcome.

380
00:19:07,760 --> 00:19:09,040
Speaker 13: I really did the crowd.

381
00:19:10,240 --> 00:19:12,560
Speaker 2: It sounds like a game show in here. I mean

382
00:19:12,600 --> 00:19:14,000
Speaker 2: that takes a lot of people to make a sound

383
00:19:14,119 --> 00:19:16,200
Speaker 2: like that. So apparently everybody thought that was the case,

384
00:19:16,240 --> 00:19:19,680
Speaker 2: even though gallows had been erected outside the Capitol, and

385
00:19:19,720 --> 00:19:21,840
Speaker 2: I think Jane Hall appropriately pointed out that might have

386
00:19:21,920 --> 00:19:25,399
Speaker 2: helped to mention it. But just not having any of

387
00:19:25,440 --> 00:19:29,560
Speaker 2: this rick, he says, Mike, Mike Pence was never even

388
00:19:29,640 --> 00:19:30,119
Speaker 2: in danger.

389
00:19:31,040 --> 00:19:35,800
Speaker 9: Yeah, I mean, this is his reality, and no pushback

390
00:19:35,840 --> 00:19:38,480
Speaker 9: on the idea that there's not a single legal scholar

391
00:19:38,600 --> 00:19:41,119
Speaker 9: I am aware of who actually believes that Mike Pence

392
00:19:41,119 --> 00:19:43,520
Speaker 9: had the power to do that. Trump wanted him to

393
00:19:43,600 --> 00:19:47,280
Speaker 9: do it, but Mike Pence actually did the due diligence

394
00:19:47,320 --> 00:19:49,840
Speaker 9: and asked legal scholars whether or not this was something

395
00:19:49,840 --> 00:19:52,639
Speaker 9: he had the power to do uniformly he was told no.

396
00:19:52,800 --> 00:19:57,320
Speaker 9: So again another example where Donald Trump spreading misinformation about

397
00:19:57,400 --> 00:20:00,560
Speaker 9: what the constitution and what the rules all allow a

398
00:20:00,640 --> 00:20:03,280
Speaker 9: vice president to do, and then holding the vice president

399
00:20:03,640 --> 00:20:07,720
Speaker 9: accountable for something that would have been illegal. And so again,

400
00:20:07,800 --> 00:20:10,200
Speaker 9: I mean, like, you know, he's going to say these things.

401
00:20:10,280 --> 00:20:12,520
Speaker 9: This is not the first interview by Donald Trump. It's

402
00:20:12,560 --> 00:20:14,359
Speaker 9: not the first time he stood on a stage and

403
00:20:14,440 --> 00:20:17,560
Speaker 9: said these things. Why do we believe that this was

404
00:20:17,600 --> 00:20:19,679
Speaker 9: going to be something different? And if it wasn't going

405
00:20:19,720 --> 00:20:21,840
Speaker 9: to be something different, why give him a for him

406
00:20:21,920 --> 00:20:22,520
Speaker 9: to do it again?

407
00:20:23,040 --> 00:20:26,360
Speaker 2: He went after the Capitol police officer who shot Ashley

408
00:20:26,400 --> 00:20:29,840
Speaker 2: Babbitt as he was asked about, you know, potentially pardoning,

409
00:20:29,840 --> 00:20:32,440
Speaker 2: He says he might pardon some of the January sixth rioters.

410
00:20:32,440 --> 00:20:35,560
Speaker 2: He said that before. But Caitlyn Collins is trying to

411
00:20:35,600 --> 00:20:37,960
Speaker 2: get to you know, the meat of what happened on

412
00:20:38,040 --> 00:20:39,720
Speaker 2: January sixth here three hours.

413
00:20:39,720 --> 00:20:42,480
Speaker 3: Over one hundred and forty officers were injured that day.

414
00:20:43,200 --> 00:20:46,840
Speaker 5: And a person named Ashley Babbitt was killed. Yes, you

415
00:20:46,880 --> 00:20:49,119
Speaker 5: know what, she was killed and she shouldn't have been killed.

416
00:20:49,320 --> 00:20:52,000
Speaker 5: And that thug that killed her there was no reason

417
00:20:52,040 --> 00:20:56,680
Speaker 5: to shoot her at blank range, cold blank range. A

418
00:20:56,920 --> 00:20:59,680
Speaker 5: shot her and she was a good person, she was

419
00:20:59,720 --> 00:21:02,840
Speaker 5: a paid There was no reason that there was no reason,

420
00:21:03,400 --> 00:21:06,720
Speaker 5: and he went on television to brag about the fact

421
00:21:06,720 --> 00:21:07,480
Speaker 5: that he killed her.

422
00:21:08,400 --> 00:21:10,040
Speaker 3: The officer was not bragging about the fact that he

423
00:21:10,119 --> 00:21:10,760
Speaker 3: killed her.

424
00:21:11,119 --> 00:21:14,119
Speaker 2: Okay, so let's be clear here that officer is a

425
00:21:14,160 --> 00:21:18,879
Speaker 2: man by the name of Lieutenant Michael Bird called him

426
00:21:18,880 --> 00:21:24,400
Speaker 2: a thug genie. Should Kaitlyn Collins have called him out

427
00:21:24,400 --> 00:21:25,240
Speaker 2: for being a racist?

428
00:21:26,600 --> 00:21:28,800
Speaker 11: You know, I think that that would have been tough

429
00:21:28,840 --> 00:21:31,320
Speaker 11: for Caitlyn Collins to do. I think it would have

430
00:21:31,359 --> 00:21:34,040
Speaker 11: been I don't think I would go there, but I

431
00:21:34,119 --> 00:21:36,320
Speaker 11: do think that one of the problems she did have.

432
00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:39,040
Speaker 11: And again I am not critical, you know, as critical

433
00:21:39,040 --> 00:21:40,600
Speaker 11: of her as some other people have been in the

434
00:21:40,600 --> 00:21:44,000
Speaker 11: wake of this, but asking questions that we know how

435
00:21:44,040 --> 00:21:46,919
Speaker 11: he's going to answer. There's no way in which she

436
00:21:47,080 --> 00:21:50,040
Speaker 11: asked those last two clips, those questions she asked that

437
00:21:50,080 --> 00:21:54,480
Speaker 11: you played about this and about January sixth. Who thought

438
00:21:54,560 --> 00:21:57,159
Speaker 11: he was going to say, oh, I'm really sorry, Mike Pence,

439
00:21:57,200 --> 00:22:00,159
Speaker 11: I was wrong. You were right, you know. So the

440
00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:04,159
Speaker 11: way in which the questions were phrased elicited exactly what

441
00:22:04,320 --> 00:22:06,679
Speaker 11: we knew he was going to give. But you know,

442
00:22:06,840 --> 00:22:09,560
Speaker 11: he not only said he would consider pardoning the Rioters,

443
00:22:09,560 --> 00:22:11,840
Speaker 11: he said maybe even the Proud Boys. This is a

444
00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:16,000
Speaker 11: group found guilty of seditious conspiracy against the United States.

445
00:22:16,400 --> 00:22:20,920
Speaker 11: You know, it is just a despicable display and there

446
00:22:21,000 --> 00:22:23,560
Speaker 11: is no other way around it. But none of it

447
00:22:23,640 --> 00:22:26,720
Speaker 11: is surprising and none of it is any different. And

448
00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:30,119
Speaker 11: to your point, the audience, that's where I think a

449
00:22:30,119 --> 00:22:32,480
Speaker 11: host of blame lies as well. These are people who

450
00:22:32,480 --> 00:22:34,880
Speaker 11: seemed like they were more like a World Wrestling Federation

451
00:22:34,960 --> 00:22:39,000
Speaker 11: event than they were a you know, a political, serious

452
00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:40,520
Speaker 11: political discussion, which it wasn't.

453
00:22:41,080 --> 00:22:42,960
Speaker 2: It felt a lot more like a rally. And it's

454
00:22:42,960 --> 00:22:46,600
Speaker 2: amazing what happens just the way that messages come across

455
00:22:47,280 --> 00:22:49,960
Speaker 2: in broadcast form or even if you're live, the way

456
00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:53,359
Speaker 2: messages come across when there is applause and laughter behind you.

457
00:22:53,480 --> 00:22:58,719
Speaker 2: It changes the entire dynamic here. You can weigh in

458
00:22:58,760 --> 00:23:01,119
Speaker 2: on the Ashley Babbitt stuff if you want, Rick, I

459
00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:02,720
Speaker 2: want to give you a chance to do that, because

460
00:23:02,720 --> 00:23:07,119
Speaker 2: he's talking about someone whose job it was to protect lawmakers.

461
00:23:07,119 --> 00:23:10,400
Speaker 2: That day, he actually probably kept a few lawmakers from

462
00:23:10,440 --> 00:23:11,040
Speaker 2: being killed.

463
00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:15,359
Speaker 9: Absolutely. I mean, there's a if there's a terrorist that

464
00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:18,399
Speaker 9: leaps over the fence at the White House on sixteen

465
00:23:18,440 --> 00:23:21,920
Speaker 9: hundred Pennsylvania Avenue and crashes through the window of his bedroom,

466
00:23:22,160 --> 00:23:24,240
Speaker 9: do you think the Secret Service is going to shoot them?

467
00:23:24,520 --> 00:23:27,760
Speaker 9: I mean, the moral equivalency that he gives to these

468
00:23:27,760 --> 00:23:30,880
Speaker 9: folks who crash through the windows and the doors and

469
00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:34,080
Speaker 9: molested the police and anybody else who stood in their

470
00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:38,919
Speaker 9: way is a very malicious thing that he's doing. And

471
00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:41,800
Speaker 9: he's setting the country upon each other, and in one

472
00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:44,560
Speaker 9: hand says he believes in the true blue you know,

473
00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:47,399
Speaker 9: police and hell on order, apports them, and at the

474
00:23:47,440 --> 00:23:50,960
Speaker 9: same time mobilizes crowds to attack them and then undermines

475
00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:54,560
Speaker 9: them any chance it suits his political fancy. So again,

476
00:23:54,720 --> 00:23:58,520
Speaker 9: I mean, like if you give a thug a place

477
00:23:58,560 --> 00:24:01,160
Speaker 9: at the table, and you give the legitimacy of your

478
00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:05,800
Speaker 9: news organization, then you should you should expect the backlash

479
00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:10,320
Speaker 9: and the diminution of your enterprise by putting him on.

480
00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:14,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, Rick, you know, I look, we talk about everything here.

481
00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:17,520
Speaker 2: I really try to be open about it. Are we

482
00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:20,080
Speaker 2: making it worse by having this conversation? I thought I'd

483
00:24:20,080 --> 00:24:22,679
Speaker 2: probably talk about several different topics with you guys, but

484
00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:23,879
Speaker 2: we've done a half an hour on this.

485
00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:25,960
Speaker 9: Am I part of the problem, you know, Look, I

486
00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:28,639
Speaker 9: mean you got to gauge it, and uh, this is

487
00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:31,840
Speaker 9: the greatest problem you have is that he still is relevant.

488
00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:36,440
Speaker 9: Donald Trump is a very important, relevant political actor in America.

489
00:24:36,560 --> 00:24:40,159
Speaker 9: He could be president again, and yet are are is

490
00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:42,920
Speaker 9: the media actually aiding and embedding his efforts to become

491
00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:45,760
Speaker 9: president by giving him platforms that he otherwise shouldn't be

492
00:24:45,800 --> 00:24:52,320
Speaker 9: given because he's just spreading malicious, false rumors, lives and misinformation. So, uh,

493
00:24:52,359 --> 00:24:54,639
Speaker 9: it's a it's a tough call. Do I think the

494
00:24:54,720 --> 00:24:58,520
Speaker 9: debt limit is more important than Donald Trump? In New Hampshire?

495
00:24:58,600 --> 00:24:58,840
Speaker 12: Yes?

496
00:24:58,960 --> 00:25:00,720
Speaker 9: And I think you know, we probab he should spend

497
00:25:00,760 --> 00:25:02,720
Speaker 9: more time talking about the things that are going to

498
00:25:02,760 --> 00:25:06,679
Speaker 9: affect every American. If Congress and the administration doesn't do

499
00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:07,080
Speaker 9: their job.

500
00:25:07,119 --> 00:25:08,719
Speaker 2: Well, thank god, we've been talking about it every day

501
00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:10,080
Speaker 2: for a couple of months here. But what do you

502
00:25:10,119 --> 00:25:12,600
Speaker 2: think about this, genie? And I ask you that through

503
00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:16,440
Speaker 2: the frame of trying to understand how he should be covered.

504
00:25:16,840 --> 00:25:19,840
Speaker 2: It's likely he'll be the nominee unless something wild here happens.

505
00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:23,320
Speaker 2: So how do we keep that from happening again? And

506
00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:25,640
Speaker 2: does a conversation like this make the problem worse?

507
00:25:26,119 --> 00:25:27,840
Speaker 11: Yeah, and I'm so glad you wrote you asked that

508
00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:29,520
Speaker 11: because you know what I had at the top of

509
00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:32,040
Speaker 11: my notes today. It's the number one story of the

510
00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:35,720
Speaker 11: day title forty two listed. Pakistan is burning, there's a

511
00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:39,440
Speaker 11: war raging in Ukraine, there's an opiod crisis, gun violence default,

512
00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:42,840
Speaker 11: as Rick just mentioned, and yet he consumes the oxygen

513
00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:45,200
Speaker 11: in the room, and this has been going on for

514
00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:48,439
Speaker 11: a decade or more, and that is you know, it

515
00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:52,360
Speaker 11: is something that editors around the world have to contend with.

516
00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:55,240
Speaker 11: How do you cover this because as you mentioned, he

517
00:25:55,320 --> 00:25:57,760
Speaker 11: has a double digit lead in the polls.

518
00:25:58,040 --> 00:25:58,800
Speaker 14: But I would go.

519
00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:03,160
Speaker 11: Back and just say again, we have to obviously hold

520
00:26:03,160 --> 00:26:05,760
Speaker 11: the media responsible. They have to think about how they

521
00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:09,199
Speaker 11: cover him. But where is the leadership of this party

522
00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:13,159
Speaker 11: of which he is running for the nomination. Today, we

523
00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:15,320
Speaker 11: didn't hear anything from Nicki Haley. Look at what he

524
00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:17,919
Speaker 11: said about women, Look what he said about the victim

525
00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:21,000
Speaker 11: of a sexual assault. Nothing from Nicki Haley. We heard

526
00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:23,680
Speaker 11: a little bit from Asa Hutchinson. Nobody really pays much

527
00:26:23,680 --> 00:26:25,760
Speaker 11: attention to what he's saying. We heard a little bit

528
00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:28,840
Speaker 11: from Chris Christy and from Romney, who aren't declared runner,

529
00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:31,600
Speaker 11: you know, aren't running. Where is the Republican Party in

530
00:26:31,640 --> 00:26:34,840
Speaker 11: all of this? That's where I think the criticism has

531
00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:37,720
Speaker 11: to come from and the pushback, and they have to

532
00:26:37,920 --> 00:26:40,919
Speaker 11: and his opponents have to be very clear on what

533
00:26:41,040 --> 00:26:44,080
Speaker 11: he is doing and be able to respond. And you know,

534
00:26:44,119 --> 00:26:46,159
Speaker 11: the onus is not all on the news media in

535
00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:46,639
Speaker 11: this case.

536
00:26:47,119 --> 00:26:50,520
Speaker 2: This is a really important conversation and I'm glad that

537
00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:53,359
Speaker 2: we've had a chance to have it with Genie Shanzeno

538
00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:56,359
Speaker 2: and Rick Davis. Thanks to both of you, Bloomberg Politics contributors.

539
00:26:56,400 --> 00:26:58,440
Speaker 2: A great panel and a great conversation. This is why

540
00:26:58,440 --> 00:27:01,159
Speaker 2: we rely on Rick and Jeanie for Insight sites, because

541
00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:04,560
Speaker 2: we trust their points of view. And for myself, here

542
00:27:04,600 --> 00:27:06,720
Speaker 2: I go back to the idea if the audience was

543
00:27:06,760 --> 00:27:09,080
Speaker 2: the problem. If you had a problem with that, I

544
00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:13,520
Speaker 2: understand why. You know, I specialize in using sound to

545
00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:16,399
Speaker 2: tell stories, sound and video. And here you are in

546
00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:19,360
Speaker 2: this room at Saint Anselm College with a big crowd

547
00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:22,760
Speaker 2: full of applause and laughter. You can say anything in

548
00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:26,800
Speaker 2: that world, almost anything, and get away with it. Just

549
00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:30,600
Speaker 2: pull the laugh track. Hey, guys, take a look. The

550
00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:35,160
Speaker 2: Dow Industrial Average is down a thousand points. I'll tell

551
00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:38,760
Speaker 2: you what. It sounds a lot different than if I

552
00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:41,439
Speaker 2: came on the air and said our top story, the

553
00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:46,800
Speaker 2: Dow Industrial Average is down a thousand points. It changes

554
00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:49,760
Speaker 2: the way we interpret these things, and it changes the

555
00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:52,240
Speaker 2: way the moderator might frame questions or deal with a

556
00:27:52,320 --> 00:27:56,679
Speaker 2: follow up. In that world, guess what everybody looks like.

557
00:27:56,680 --> 00:28:00,520
Speaker 2: We're going to default. That'll be fine for a day.

558
00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:02,199
Speaker 2: It'd be a lot different if I told you we

559
00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:05,280
Speaker 2: have real issues today. We're going to default on our

560
00:28:05,359 --> 00:28:08,280
Speaker 2: debt for the first time ever. Something to keep in

561
00:28:08,359 --> 00:28:10,200
Speaker 2: mind as you watch these town halls and debates and

562
00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:11,359
Speaker 2: so forth going forward.

563
00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:15,760
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound On podcast. Catch us

564
00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:17,800
Speaker 1: live weekdays at one eastern.

565
00:28:17,520 --> 00:28:20,720
Speaker 15: On Bloomberg dot com, the iHeartRadio app and the Bloomberg

566
00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:21,640
Speaker 15: Business app.

567
00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:24,160
Speaker 1: Or listen on demand wherever you get your podcasts.

568
00:28:25,320 --> 00:28:27,600
Speaker 2: I look forward to this conversation always with David Weston.

569
00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:30,159
Speaker 2: I'll look forward to anything that involves David Weston, my

570
00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:32,320
Speaker 2: colleague here at Bloomberg News and of course now the

571
00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:35,160
Speaker 2: voice of Wall Street Week, and we try to get

572
00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:39,000
Speaker 2: together with Carly Fiorina, founder and chairman of Carly Fiorina

573
00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:42,560
Speaker 2: Enterprises and Unlocking Potential, of course, former Hewlett Packard CEO

574
00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:46,280
Speaker 2: and former Republican presidential candidate, to talk about some of

575
00:28:46,280 --> 00:28:48,240
Speaker 2: the stories that are making news here from a slightly

576
00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:50,680
Speaker 2: different angle through the guys of leadership. And there's a

577
00:28:50,680 --> 00:28:53,120
Speaker 2: lot to get to there. As we look at the

578
00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:55,840
Speaker 2: latest from Walt Disney Corporation. This is something that I

579
00:28:55,880 --> 00:28:59,680
Speaker 2: was really curious to hear about. As Bob Eiger, you know,

580
00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:02,560
Speaker 2: shows up on the conference call following the earnings report,

581
00:29:02,560 --> 00:29:04,240
Speaker 2: and you know that he's going to be asked about

582
00:29:04,920 --> 00:29:09,440
Speaker 2: Ron DeSantis, remembering, of course, the war that the governor

583
00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:13,160
Speaker 2: of Florida is essentially waging against the Disney Corporation, bringing

584
00:29:13,240 --> 00:29:17,840
Speaker 2: up many different questions about what exactly is conservative in

585
00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:21,320
Speaker 2: this case. David is with us from World Headquarters in

586
00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:24,280
Speaker 2: New York. It's great to see David. These Disney results

587
00:29:24,280 --> 00:29:25,960
Speaker 2: were not great. The stock's getting beat up. But we're

588
00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:28,760
Speaker 2: gonna maybe look at a slightly different angle on this.

589
00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:32,840
Speaker 2: Knowing that Bob Iger has no patience for the governor

590
00:29:32,840 --> 00:29:33,640
Speaker 2: of Florida, does.

591
00:29:33,520 --> 00:29:35,920
Speaker 7: He, Well, that may well be right, but I think

592
00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:38,400
Speaker 7: it's helpful to remember this is not a battle that

593
00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:43,200
Speaker 7: Bob Iger picked. Initially, it was Bob Chapik, his predecessor,

594
00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:44,680
Speaker 7: that's right, who sort of got him into this.

595
00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:45,440
Speaker 12: I don't know.

596
00:29:45,560 --> 00:29:47,440
Speaker 7: I haven't talked to Bob Iger about this. As you know,

597
00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:49,400
Speaker 7: I worked there for a long time. Sure, I know

598
00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:51,320
Speaker 7: Bob well, I haven't talked to him about it, but

599
00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:53,080
Speaker 7: I'm not sure it's a battle he would have picked.

600
00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:55,200
Speaker 7: But now he's in it. Once he's in it, he's

601
00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:57,320
Speaker 7: got to do what he can. And also, I must say,

602
00:29:57,560 --> 00:29:59,480
Speaker 7: at the moment, and we'll see how it plays out,

603
00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:01,440
Speaker 7: I'm not sure sure that the Walt Disney Company is

604
00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:05,280
Speaker 7: coming out worse than Rhonda Santa's is on this issue.

605
00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:07,600
Speaker 2: This is true. Now, I don't need to bring it

606
00:30:07,640 --> 00:30:09,880
Speaker 2: back down the rabbit hole all the Rhonda Santa stuff

607
00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:13,360
Speaker 2: most recently, you know, joking or threateningly joking to put

608
00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:15,880
Speaker 2: a jail next to the Magic Kingdom and so forth.

609
00:30:16,080 --> 00:30:18,840
Speaker 2: But Bob Eyger on that conference called, did have a

610
00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:19,400
Speaker 2: point to make.

611
00:30:19,480 --> 00:30:21,640
Speaker 16: First of all, I think the case that we filed

612
00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:25,120
Speaker 16: last month made our position in the fact very clear.

613
00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:27,640
Speaker 16: And that's really that this is about one thing and

614
00:30:27,680 --> 00:30:31,080
Speaker 16: one thing only, and that's retaliating against us for taking

615
00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:35,760
Speaker 16: a position about pending legislation. And we believe that in

616
00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:39,160
Speaker 16: us taking that position, we are merely exercising our right

617
00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:40,400
Speaker 16: to free speech.

618
00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:42,080
Speaker 2: And so he asked the question, do you want us

619
00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:45,320
Speaker 2: to continue doing business your should we continue investing in Florida?

620
00:30:45,360 --> 00:30:47,400
Speaker 2: Because you could argue that Disney's done quite a bit

621
00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:51,400
Speaker 2: to help Florida and its economy, employing seventy five thousand people.

622
00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:54,200
Speaker 2: I'd love to bring Carly in on this. Carly Fiorina

623
00:30:54,280 --> 00:30:56,520
Speaker 2: is with us now and it's always a pleasure. Carly.

624
00:30:56,640 --> 00:30:58,880
Speaker 2: This is a real test of leadership on the corporate

625
00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:01,240
Speaker 2: level and on the pol level. How do you navigate

626
00:31:01,320 --> 00:31:02,000
Speaker 2: something like this?

627
00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:04,720
Speaker 17: Yes, well, it certainly isn't great to be with you,

628
00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:07,560
Speaker 17: Joe as well as you David. Look, I don't think

629
00:31:07,600 --> 00:31:11,160
Speaker 17: Bob Iger has any choice here, the first and most

630
00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:16,560
Speaker 17: important responsibility of a leader is to protect their institution,

631
00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:23,400
Speaker 17: and the steps that Governor DeSantis has taken are not only,

632
00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:26,360
Speaker 17: according to Bob Iger, in violation of the First Amendment,

633
00:31:26,440 --> 00:31:32,200
Speaker 17: but perhaps even more importantly, they threaten the institution, They

634
00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:37,280
Speaker 17: threaten the tax base, they threaten visitation, they threaten all

635
00:31:37,280 --> 00:31:39,280
Speaker 17: these things. So I don't think Bob Iger has a

636
00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:42,160
Speaker 17: choice but to wage this battle. I don't think he

637
00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:45,640
Speaker 17: had a choice but to act preemptively to prevent some

638
00:31:45,680 --> 00:31:51,000
Speaker 17: of Ron DeSantis's commission members from taking steps that would

639
00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:54,120
Speaker 17: have harmed the Disney franchise. And I think you are

640
00:31:54,200 --> 00:31:58,120
Speaker 17: correct that Ron DeSantis is not necessarily winning this battle,

641
00:31:58,680 --> 00:32:03,440
Speaker 17: but Disney really needs too. I also love your opening

642
00:32:03,520 --> 00:32:09,840
Speaker 17: question about what is conservatism really I don't recall conservative

643
00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:13,680
Speaker 17: meaning that a government has the right to tell a

644
00:32:13,800 --> 00:32:16,480
Speaker 17: company what to do or what to say.

645
00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:23,560
Speaker 2: Well, that's a big statement there, and that's being tested

646
00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:28,200
Speaker 2: in real time right now, David. It reminds me of

647
00:32:28,720 --> 00:32:33,640
Speaker 2: Carly's most recent column, Leadership Matters, and it's about the

648
00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:37,040
Speaker 2: culture of candor. Is this an opportunity for Bob Iger

649
00:32:37,080 --> 00:32:37,600
Speaker 2: to do just that?

650
00:32:38,600 --> 00:32:40,240
Speaker 7: Well, I think he is being pretty candid in the

651
00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:42,959
Speaker 7: sense that looking at it from a distance here, I

652
00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:46,840
Speaker 7: think that Disney has the high ground because let's be frank,

653
00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:49,440
Speaker 7: Disney's going to have Disney World down there long after

654
00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:53,000
Speaker 7: mister DeSantis has gone on to something else, and it's

655
00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:54,760
Speaker 7: going to be an important part of the economy. He's

656
00:32:54,800 --> 00:32:57,600
Speaker 7: got the high ground. I think that to defend fro him,

657
00:32:57,840 --> 00:32:59,800
Speaker 7: I agree with Carly. He has to do it, has

658
00:32:59,840 --> 00:33:03,080
Speaker 7: no choice but to do that. But I think Bob

659
00:33:03,160 --> 00:33:05,960
Speaker 7: is basically being quite candid, including on his lawsuit, because

660
00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:08,880
Speaker 7: as you know, the government doesn't necessarily have to give

661
00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:11,000
Speaker 7: you benefits, but they can't take them away because you

662
00:33:11,040 --> 00:33:13,760
Speaker 7: exercise your constitution right and that's what he's wrapping himself

663
00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:16,160
Speaker 7: in and that just as a legal batter, that's exactly right.

664
00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:20,120
Speaker 7: But Carly's a column this week is about candor and

665
00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:24,440
Speaker 7: the importance of leaders being candid, which is terribly important.

666
00:33:24,440 --> 00:33:26,080
Speaker 7: You can't lose your credibility. You have to create that

667
00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:28,760
Speaker 7: within your institution. At the same time, I have to say, Carly,

668
00:33:28,840 --> 00:33:31,560
Speaker 7: I maybe I'm less upright than you are. I always

669
00:33:31,560 --> 00:33:34,680
Speaker 7: said I won't lie. I may not volunteer, but I

670
00:33:34,720 --> 00:33:37,840
Speaker 7: won't lie because sometimes I don't know if it's candid

671
00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:39,440
Speaker 7: or not, just not to volunteer.

672
00:33:40,360 --> 00:33:42,960
Speaker 17: Well, I think that's exactly right, David. I would agree

673
00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:47,800
Speaker 17: there is a time and place for revealing information, and

674
00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:52,200
Speaker 17: that takes judgment and discretion, there's no question. On the

675
00:33:52,280 --> 00:33:57,960
Speaker 17: other hand, I think what we know from experience is

676
00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:03,120
Speaker 17: that over time, particularly in an era when eventually everything

677
00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:09,000
Speaker 17: becomes public, over time, transparency is a better bet than

678
00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:11,680
Speaker 17: trying to hide things because in the end it's all

679
00:34:11,719 --> 00:34:15,719
Speaker 17: going to come out. And yet, as I say in

680
00:34:15,719 --> 00:34:18,960
Speaker 17: this column, if you just look out into our culture,

681
00:34:20,200 --> 00:34:23,640
Speaker 17: there's nothing that rewards candor right now. And we have many,

682
00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:29,440
Speaker 17: many public figures who aren't just failing to reveal the truth.

683
00:34:30,160 --> 00:34:34,480
Speaker 17: They are engaged in true lies, whether it's you know,

684
00:34:34,520 --> 00:34:38,280
Speaker 17: whether they graduated from college, or whether the election was stolen.

685
00:34:38,360 --> 00:34:42,920
Speaker 17: So and of course social media is a curated environment,

686
00:34:43,040 --> 00:34:47,920
Speaker 17: it's not an authentic environment. So I think cander and

687
00:34:47,960 --> 00:34:53,760
Speaker 17: transparency over time always are smarter than hiding the ball.

688
00:34:54,560 --> 00:34:57,080
Speaker 17: But you wouldn't know it by looking at our current culture.

689
00:34:57,320 --> 00:34:59,280
Speaker 7: Yea, And I must say, Carly, I thought your column

690
00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:02,200
Speaker 7: was terribly timely because it does feel at the moment

691
00:35:02,239 --> 00:35:05,879
Speaker 7: it's like there's almost rampant misleading and even outright lies.

692
00:35:06,360 --> 00:35:08,960
Speaker 7: But if one further thought I experienced, and this go

693
00:35:09,040 --> 00:35:10,880
Speaker 7: back to the time I was at ABC News. I

694
00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:12,360
Speaker 7: used to say, you can do anything you want on

695
00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:14,200
Speaker 7: the air, as long as you tell everybody you're doing it.

696
00:35:14,640 --> 00:35:16,640
Speaker 7: And one of the benefits of that is people wouldn't

697
00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:18,239
Speaker 7: do certain things if they thought they had to tell

698
00:35:18,239 --> 00:35:20,440
Speaker 7: about it. So's the aspect of not getting caught in

699
00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:22,719
Speaker 7: a lie. There's also an aspect it is a discipline

700
00:35:22,719 --> 00:35:25,040
Speaker 7: on your behavior if you think you're going to have

701
00:35:25,080 --> 00:35:26,160
Speaker 7: to be transparent about it.

702
00:35:27,040 --> 00:35:30,800
Speaker 17: Absolutely. I had a boss, very wise man, who said

703
00:35:30,960 --> 00:35:34,240
Speaker 17: to me long ago, if you don't want to see

704
00:35:34,239 --> 00:35:38,040
Speaker 17: it on the front page of your hometown newspaper, then

705
00:35:38,080 --> 00:35:41,680
Speaker 17: don't say it and don't do it. And it was

706
00:35:41,920 --> 00:35:45,399
Speaker 17: just a good reminder just think through what happens if

707
00:35:45,440 --> 00:35:48,040
Speaker 17: something you say or don't say, or do or don't

708
00:35:48,040 --> 00:35:53,840
Speaker 17: do is public. On the other hand, in the public domain,

709
00:35:55,080 --> 00:35:59,399
Speaker 17: people are getting away with quite a lot, whether it's

710
00:35:59,440 --> 00:36:06,799
Speaker 17: social media or literally just continuously saying something that is

711
00:36:06,880 --> 00:36:11,200
Speaker 17: demonstrably false but claiming that it's true. And so the

712
00:36:12,520 --> 00:36:16,400
Speaker 17: onus to create a culture of candor, I think becomes

713
00:36:16,440 --> 00:36:21,000
Speaker 17: even higher on a leader and even more difficult Carly.

714
00:36:21,040 --> 00:36:23,720
Speaker 2: You're right, true leaders know they must be clear eyed, candidate,

715
00:36:23,800 --> 00:36:26,440
Speaker 2: and accountable. So how many of those do we have?

716
00:36:28,480 --> 00:36:32,800
Speaker 17: Well, yes, you know, I talk in this column about

717
00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:35,960
Speaker 17: the culture of politics, the language of politics, which sort

718
00:36:35,960 --> 00:36:39,640
Speaker 17: of sadly infects everything we do, as well as the

719
00:36:39,640 --> 00:36:43,480
Speaker 17: culture of social media, and I think both of those

720
00:36:43,640 --> 00:36:53,040
Speaker 17: cultures vary accountability honestly, and so building an organization that

721
00:36:53,239 --> 00:36:56,080
Speaker 17: can be clear eyed and candid, but then can be

722
00:36:56,280 --> 00:36:59,120
Speaker 17: accountable where people can say, you know, we didn't do

723
00:36:59,200 --> 00:37:02,120
Speaker 17: this real well, or we made a mistake here, or

724
00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:04,719
Speaker 17: we need to do this better, or this didn't come

725
00:37:04,760 --> 00:37:07,560
Speaker 17: out the way we thought it would. All those things

726
00:37:07,560 --> 00:37:12,640
Speaker 17: are crucially important over time, although they may feel very

727
00:37:12,680 --> 00:37:16,600
Speaker 17: difficult in the short term. But boy, it's hard to

728
00:37:16,640 --> 00:37:17,759
Speaker 17: do these days.

729
00:37:19,640 --> 00:37:21,719
Speaker 7: Yeah, as I think personally, we're seeing a bit back

730
00:37:21,760 --> 00:37:24,120
Speaker 7: in the Bloomberg universe with the Federal Reserve at the

731
00:37:24,120 --> 00:37:28,040
Speaker 7: moment and it's decisions to not go after inflation is

732
00:37:28,080 --> 00:37:30,560
Speaker 7: fast now. Jay Pollins admitted they were laid on doing it,

733
00:37:30,600 --> 00:37:32,319
Speaker 7: but we don't have an explanation of what went wrong.

734
00:37:32,480 --> 00:37:35,279
Speaker 7: More important, the regulation in the Silicon Valley Bank where

735
00:37:35,280 --> 00:37:37,600
Speaker 7: they did have the vice chair really do a report

736
00:37:37,880 --> 00:37:40,200
Speaker 7: saying we let people down. I think it's terribly important

737
00:37:40,239 --> 00:37:42,440
Speaker 7: for the FED to have credibility that they admit where

738
00:37:42,440 --> 00:37:44,520
Speaker 7: they're wrong, and more than that, go back and say,

739
00:37:44,640 --> 00:37:45,520
Speaker 7: this is what we've done.

740
00:37:45,400 --> 00:37:45,879
Speaker 12: To fix it.

741
00:37:46,719 --> 00:37:49,600
Speaker 17: Yes, exactly right. And you know, David, there's so many

742
00:37:49,640 --> 00:37:55,040
Speaker 17: examples of that. There's so many examples of where government

743
00:37:55,120 --> 00:37:57,600
Speaker 17: agencies as well as businesses. But let's just stick with

744
00:37:57,760 --> 00:38:00,800
Speaker 17: government for a moment, whether it's the Federal Reserve, for

745
00:38:01,040 --> 00:38:04,880
Speaker 17: the Food and Drug Administration or you know, the EPA.

746
00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:09,600
Speaker 17: There have been so many examples where government regulators failed

747
00:38:09,640 --> 00:38:13,520
Speaker 17: to do their job and then you know, maybe we

748
00:38:13,640 --> 00:38:16,480
Speaker 17: got a report, but there was never the follow up

749
00:38:16,480 --> 00:38:18,400
Speaker 17: to your point of here's what we're going to do

750
00:38:18,440 --> 00:38:21,160
Speaker 17: to fix it, here's how we will hold ourselves accountable.

751
00:38:21,600 --> 00:38:25,520
Speaker 17: And unfortunately, I think that adds to the cynicism, the

752
00:38:25,600 --> 00:38:29,120
Speaker 17: lack of trust that people have in government or in

753
00:38:29,200 --> 00:38:33,600
Speaker 17: elected officials, and that cynicism and lack of trust sadly

754
00:38:33,800 --> 00:38:36,600
Speaker 17: amplifies this notion that well.

755
00:38:36,440 --> 00:38:37,160
Speaker 4: Why not lie?

756
00:38:37,239 --> 00:38:40,800
Speaker 17: Everybody's lying, No one's accountable, so who cares if so

757
00:38:41,000 --> 00:38:42,680
Speaker 17: and so lies? And isn't accountable.

758
00:38:43,600 --> 00:38:46,200
Speaker 2: You know, it's hard to have this conversation David and

759
00:38:46,280 --> 00:38:49,320
Speaker 2: Carly today this day after the town hall on CNN

760
00:38:49,400 --> 00:38:54,239
Speaker 2: without mentioning it through the prism of candor. Here having

761
00:38:54,320 --> 00:38:57,319
Speaker 2: watched Caitlin Collins turn herself into a pretzol to try to,

762
00:38:58,000 --> 00:39:01,600
Speaker 2: you know, fact check Donald Trump. I just wonder from

763
00:39:01,600 --> 00:39:04,439
Speaker 2: both of you if you think that it's incumbent upon

764
00:39:04,560 --> 00:39:10,200
Speaker 2: journalists to demand candor from elected officials when they interview them,

765
00:39:10,320 --> 00:39:11,520
Speaker 2: or is it asking too much?

766
00:39:11,640 --> 00:39:14,879
Speaker 7: David, No, it's certainly not asking too much. I think

767
00:39:14,920 --> 00:39:17,359
Speaker 7: as a journalist there's a limit to what you can do.

768
00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:20,680
Speaker 7: Just getting into debate saying yes you did, no you

769
00:39:21,080 --> 00:39:23,279
Speaker 7: doesn't have much good. What you're trying to do is

770
00:39:23,320 --> 00:39:27,560
Speaker 7: expose the situation, the issue, and the person to the

771
00:39:27,560 --> 00:39:30,759
Speaker 7: public so they can make a decision and decide for

772
00:39:30,800 --> 00:39:32,960
Speaker 7: themselves is that person being honest with me or not?

773
00:39:33,040 --> 00:39:35,319
Speaker 7: And so you have to raise the facts as best

774
00:39:35,360 --> 00:39:37,600
Speaker 7: you could. And I don't know what constraints they had

775
00:39:37,640 --> 00:39:40,120
Speaker 7: last night. I mean, certainly Caitlin did her very best

776
00:39:40,480 --> 00:39:42,320
Speaker 7: to stand up to him, but at one point, for example,

777
00:39:42,320 --> 00:39:44,160
Speaker 7: when you said I didn't ask them to find votes.

778
00:39:46,040 --> 00:39:48,800
Speaker 7: The Secuary of State of Georgia. I would have loved

779
00:39:48,840 --> 00:39:50,279
Speaker 7: for them to have played that tape of that and

780
00:39:50,239 --> 00:39:52,400
Speaker 7: I said, well, let's just listen, mister president, this is

781
00:39:52,440 --> 00:39:54,719
Speaker 7: what you said. You'd like a little bit of that

782
00:39:54,760 --> 00:39:57,000
Speaker 7: to say, how can you deny that that's your voice,

783
00:39:57,040 --> 00:39:58,719
Speaker 7: isn't it? I mean it was just doctor, what is it?

784
00:39:59,280 --> 00:40:01,880
Speaker 7: But it's awfully in that situation and to some extent,

785
00:40:01,920 --> 00:40:04,520
Speaker 7: you know, going in it's almost a no win proposition.

786
00:40:04,600 --> 00:40:06,920
Speaker 7: My big basic issue watching it was I'm not sure

787
00:40:06,920 --> 00:40:07,600
Speaker 7: what I learned.

788
00:40:08,480 --> 00:40:09,439
Speaker 2: We have less than a minute.

789
00:40:09,440 --> 00:40:13,000
Speaker 17: Carly, your thoughts on that, well, Look, personally, I think

790
00:40:13,040 --> 00:40:14,719
Speaker 17: it was a bad idea. I think it was a

791
00:40:14,760 --> 00:40:18,560
Speaker 17: bad idea to give him that platform because this wasn't unexpected.

792
00:40:18,600 --> 00:40:20,920
Speaker 17: Of course, he's gonna lie about all of these things.

793
00:40:20,920 --> 00:40:24,040
Speaker 17: Why should he change? And any journalists, I don't care

794
00:40:24,040 --> 00:40:27,800
Speaker 17: how good they are, cannot force him to tell the truth,

795
00:40:28,080 --> 00:40:32,160
Speaker 17: particularly when he is in front of a cheering, adoring audience.

796
00:40:32,440 --> 00:40:35,440
Speaker 2: The crowd has so much to do with it. Carly,

797
00:40:35,520 --> 00:40:39,279
Speaker 2: Thank you so much. Carly Fiorina and David Weston in

798
00:40:39,320 --> 00:40:42,759
Speaker 2: a special conversation you'll only hear here on sound on

799
00:40:42,960 --> 00:40:44,240
Speaker 2: This is Bloomberg.

800
00:40:45,120 --> 00:40:48,600
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound On podcast. Catch us

801
00:40:48,640 --> 00:40:51,759
Speaker 1: live weekdays at one Eastern on Bloomberg dot com, the

802
00:40:51,880 --> 00:40:55,000
Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app and the Bloomberg Business app, or listening on

803
00:40:55,040 --> 00:40:57,040
Speaker 1: demand wherever you get your podcasts.

804
00:40:57,440 --> 00:41:00,760
Speaker 2: Were getting back to the Disney story as we prepare

805
00:41:00,800 --> 00:41:03,400
Speaker 2: for hour two of Sound On. We're going to talk

806
00:41:03,400 --> 00:41:05,560
Speaker 2: about this a little bit more next hour with Nancy

807
00:41:05,640 --> 00:41:10,319
Speaker 2: Cook from Bloomberg, who's been following the DeSantis not quite

808
00:41:10,400 --> 00:41:13,960
Speaker 2: yet campaign. As we heard an earnings report last night

809
00:41:13,960 --> 00:41:16,120
Speaker 2: from Disney that's been really dogging the stock. It's helping

810
00:41:16,160 --> 00:41:18,759
Speaker 2: to pull the dow lower. But we were listening for

811
00:41:18,840 --> 00:41:23,680
Speaker 2: any insights from returning CEO Bob Iger on this ongoing

812
00:41:23,719 --> 00:41:27,239
Speaker 2: battle with Governor Ron DeSantis. Remembering DeSantis, you remember this

813
00:41:27,280 --> 00:41:29,640
Speaker 2: whole thing with the prison potentially next door to the

814
00:41:29,640 --> 00:41:32,960
Speaker 2: theme park. Following the spat over the Reedy Creek distant

815
00:41:32,960 --> 00:41:34,920
Speaker 2: Now people are like, well, there's what should we do

816
00:41:35,000 --> 00:41:35,640
Speaker 2: with this land?

817
00:41:35,960 --> 00:41:38,720
Speaker 18: And so you know, it's like okay, I mean people

818
00:41:38,719 --> 00:41:42,640
Speaker 18: have said, you know, maybe maybe have another maybe create

819
00:41:42,680 --> 00:41:46,760
Speaker 18: a state park, maybe try to do more amusement parks.

820
00:41:47,200 --> 00:41:50,120
Speaker 18: Someone even said like maybe you need another state prison.

821
00:41:50,160 --> 00:41:53,080
Speaker 18: Who knows I mean, I just think that the possibilities

822
00:41:53,120 --> 00:41:55,719
Speaker 18: are are endless, and so that is now going to

823
00:41:55,800 --> 00:41:59,240
Speaker 18: be analyzed to see what would make make them beat Anima.

824
00:41:59,360 --> 00:42:01,920
Speaker 2: So that's back in April. That was the eighteenth of April.

825
00:42:02,320 --> 00:42:04,880
Speaker 2: Last night, Bob Iger with a message directly and he

826
00:42:05,000 --> 00:42:06,960
Speaker 2: was asked about this to Ron de Santis.

827
00:42:06,960 --> 00:42:11,360
Speaker 16: There are about two thousand special districts in Florida, and

828
00:42:11,520 --> 00:42:14,560
Speaker 16: most were established a foster investment in development, where we

829
00:42:14,560 --> 00:42:17,160
Speaker 16: were one of them. It basically made it easier for

830
00:42:17,280 --> 00:42:20,320
Speaker 16: us and others, by the way, to do business in Florida.

831
00:42:20,840 --> 00:42:23,400
Speaker 16: And we build a business that employees, as we've said before,

832
00:42:23,400 --> 00:42:27,080
Speaker 16: over seventy five thousand people and attracts tens of millions

833
00:42:27,120 --> 00:42:29,719
Speaker 16: of people to the state. So while it's easy to

834
00:42:29,760 --> 00:42:32,520
Speaker 16: say that the Reedy Creek Special District that was established

835
00:42:32,520 --> 00:42:36,120
Speaker 16: for us over fifty years ago benefited us, it's misleading

836
00:42:36,160 --> 00:42:39,640
Speaker 16: to not also consider how much Disney benefited the state

837
00:42:39,640 --> 00:42:40,120
Speaker 16: of Florida.

838
00:42:40,239 --> 00:42:42,840
Speaker 2: And so Iiger, making that pretty clear point, brought it

839
00:42:42,920 --> 00:42:46,600
Speaker 2: down crystallized it to a very short statement or question

840
00:42:46,719 --> 00:42:47,200
Speaker 2: in this case.

841
00:42:47,280 --> 00:42:49,680
Speaker 16: So I'm going to finish what is obviously kind of

842
00:42:49,680 --> 00:42:52,880
Speaker 16: a long answer by asking one question, does the state

843
00:42:52,960 --> 00:42:56,120
Speaker 16: want us to invest more, employ more people, and pay

844
00:42:56,160 --> 00:42:57,440
Speaker 16: more taxes or not?

845
00:42:58,360 --> 00:42:58,600
Speaker 12: Or not?

846
00:42:59,040 --> 00:43:02,640
Speaker 2: The stock right now is down nine percent, and we'll

847
00:43:02,640 --> 00:43:04,839
Speaker 2: talk more about it next hour. Who's going to win

848
00:43:05,080 --> 00:43:09,920
Speaker 2: this one? The company or the politician. I'm Joe Matthew

849
00:43:09,960 --> 00:43:13,439
Speaker 2: in Washington. Kaylee Lines is on the way in as

850
00:43:13,440 --> 00:43:15,280
Speaker 2: we round the bend on our one.

851
00:43:16,360 --> 00:43:19,719
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound On podcast. Catch the

852
00:43:19,760 --> 00:43:23,640
Speaker 1: program live weekdays at one Eastern on Bloomberg Radio, the

853
00:43:23,719 --> 00:43:25,879
Speaker 1: tune in alf Bloomberg dot Com.

854
00:43:25,560 --> 00:43:27,040
Speaker 12: And the Bloomberg Business App.

855
00:43:27,160 --> 00:43:30,040
Speaker 1: You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our

856
00:43:30,040 --> 00:43:34,560
Speaker 1: flagship New York station. Just say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven thirty.

857
00:43:36,000 --> 00:43:38,520
Speaker 2: Kayley, it's great to see you here for hour two

858
00:43:38,600 --> 00:43:40,680
Speaker 2: of Sound On. We've covered a lot of ground already,

859
00:43:40,760 --> 00:43:41,839
Speaker 2: been looking forward to having.

860
00:43:42,320 --> 00:43:43,840
Speaker 8: Oh, it's good to be here, Joe.

861
00:43:44,000 --> 00:43:47,239
Speaker 2: So we did the Trump town hall, we did the

862
00:43:47,320 --> 00:43:50,160
Speaker 2: DeSantis Disney spat, We've been through a lot of stories.

863
00:43:50,160 --> 00:43:52,160
Speaker 2: We now get to touch what is likely the biggest

864
00:43:52,160 --> 00:43:54,359
Speaker 2: one of the day, Yeah, which is title forty two.

865
00:43:54,920 --> 00:43:57,279
Speaker 2: And we're all watching, of course, the border here with

866
00:43:57,600 --> 00:44:00,360
Speaker 2: the reports of at least a surge of Mike grants

867
00:44:00,400 --> 00:44:03,560
Speaker 2: preparing for these old COVID restrictions at the border to

868
00:44:03,600 --> 00:44:06,520
Speaker 2: be lifted. The administration has been trying to get this done,

869
00:44:06,640 --> 00:44:07,359
Speaker 2: and here they are.

870
00:44:07,640 --> 00:44:11,960
Speaker 8: Yeah, the clock quite literally strikes midnight at midnight tonight,

871
00:44:12,120 --> 00:44:14,440
Speaker 8: Title forty two is going to be lifted. And remember,

872
00:44:14,640 --> 00:44:17,480
Speaker 8: under Title forty two, it has allowed the US to

873
00:44:17,520 --> 00:44:19,640
Speaker 8: return to their home countries or get sent back to

874
00:44:19,680 --> 00:44:23,160
Speaker 8: Mexico migrants that show up at the border given COVID

875
00:44:23,920 --> 00:44:27,239
Speaker 8: excuses and protocols there. Basically, this has meant that the

876
00:44:27,320 --> 00:44:29,759
Speaker 8: US can send back literally millions of people since this

877
00:44:29,840 --> 00:44:33,400
Speaker 8: policy began. They no longer are going to have the

878
00:44:33,400 --> 00:44:36,080
Speaker 8: authority under titled forty two. They're going to go back

879
00:44:36,080 --> 00:44:38,160
Speaker 8: to Title eight. Is the plan. They have a lot

880
00:44:38,200 --> 00:44:41,680
Speaker 8: of legal things in the works in order to try

881
00:44:41,719 --> 00:44:44,920
Speaker 8: and stem the flow, but it might be rough going

882
00:44:45,000 --> 00:44:47,520
Speaker 8: for a while. And Secretary of Mojorkis, speaking at the

883
00:44:47,560 --> 00:44:51,359
Speaker 8: White House Press briefing today did kind of suggest that.

884
00:44:51,320 --> 00:44:51,880
Speaker 2: Oh you sure do.

885
00:44:52,080 --> 00:44:55,560
Speaker 10: We expected to see large numbers of encounters initially, We

886
00:44:55,760 --> 00:44:59,800
Speaker 10: are already seeing high numbers of encounters in certain sectors.

887
00:45:00,600 --> 00:45:04,879
Speaker 10: This places an incredible strain on our personnel, Our facilities

888
00:45:05,320 --> 00:45:10,000
Speaker 10: and our communities with whom we partner closely. We prepared

889
00:45:10,040 --> 00:45:13,000
Speaker 10: for this moment for almost two years, and our plan

890
00:45:13,160 --> 00:45:14,080
Speaker 10: will deliver.

891
00:45:13,880 --> 00:45:17,680
Speaker 2: Results, will deliver results, but in time. This is where

892
00:45:17,719 --> 00:45:21,240
Speaker 2: we start our conversation with Congressman Henry Quaar, a Democrat

893
00:45:21,280 --> 00:45:23,960
Speaker 2: from Texas. To as I mentioned, his districts stretches from

894
00:45:24,000 --> 00:45:26,440
Speaker 2: San Antonio down to the Rio Grande, and this is

895
00:45:26,480 --> 00:45:29,440
Speaker 2: a local story for him which brings unique insight to

896
00:45:29,480 --> 00:45:32,480
Speaker 2: the program. Congressman, welcome back. We talked about a week

897
00:45:32,480 --> 00:45:34,920
Speaker 2: ago about your feelings, and I wonder here on the

898
00:45:35,040 --> 00:45:37,880
Speaker 2: day of if you have a sense of what's about

899
00:45:37,880 --> 00:45:38,840
Speaker 2: to happen on the border.

900
00:45:39,960 --> 00:45:41,839
Speaker 13: Well, we certainly. First of all, thank you so much

901
00:45:41,880 --> 00:45:44,640
Speaker 13: for having me again. And let me say I've been

902
00:45:44,680 --> 00:45:48,120
Speaker 13: looking at the numbers that we know of that are

903
00:45:49,239 --> 00:45:53,640
Speaker 13: in the Mexican northern States. For example, Tamil Lipas, which

904
00:45:53,680 --> 00:45:56,400
Speaker 13: is where Brownsville is at. You know, we estimate that

905
00:45:56,440 --> 00:46:00,360
Speaker 13: there is over forty thousand people there. The El Paso area,

906
00:46:00,360 --> 00:46:03,360
Speaker 13: there's about sixty thousand people there that we know of.

907
00:46:03,520 --> 00:46:07,680
Speaker 13: On the Mexican side, so there's there's about over one

908
00:46:07,719 --> 00:46:10,120
Speaker 13: hundred and fifty thousand people that we know on the

909
00:46:10,160 --> 00:46:11,560
Speaker 13: Mexican side that want.

910
00:46:11,400 --> 00:46:13,760
Speaker 2: Across all one hundred and fifty thousand.

911
00:46:13,800 --> 00:46:16,640
Speaker 13: One hundred and fifty thousand that we know of now

912
00:46:16,960 --> 00:46:19,480
Speaker 13: that doesn't include the ones that are in the interior

913
00:46:19,560 --> 00:46:23,640
Speaker 13: states of Mexico or Tapalucha, where there's about eighty thousand.

914
00:46:23,680 --> 00:46:26,080
Speaker 13: That's a southern Mexico. And if you look at the

915
00:46:26,160 --> 00:46:29,640
Speaker 13: numbers that we have or on Doer's Guatemala, you're talking

916
00:46:29,680 --> 00:46:32,080
Speaker 13: about large numbers there. And if you look at the

917
00:46:32,120 --> 00:46:36,280
Speaker 13: people that are coming in, it's you got people from Brazil, Colombia,

918
00:46:36,440 --> 00:46:41,760
Speaker 13: Ecuadora Salvado, Guatemala, Haiti On Dua's India, Mexico, Peru, Turkey,

919
00:46:41,760 --> 00:46:45,799
Speaker 13: and Venezuela. And right now the number one folks that

920
00:46:45,800 --> 00:46:50,160
Speaker 13: they're getting at the border are number one people from Venezuela,

921
00:46:50,280 --> 00:46:53,760
Speaker 13: Number two people from Colombia, Number three people from Peru,

922
00:46:53,800 --> 00:46:56,920
Speaker 13: and then Guatemala. And that goes on and it changes.

923
00:46:57,000 --> 00:46:59,759
Speaker 13: You know, there's a snapshot of you know, sometimes there's

924
00:46:59,800 --> 00:47:02,319
Speaker 13: more of this folks, more of this folks. But the

925
00:47:02,320 --> 00:47:05,680
Speaker 13: bottom line is you've got to have some sort of

926
00:47:05,719 --> 00:47:09,480
Speaker 13: repercussions at the border because otherwise you are going to

927
00:47:09,560 --> 00:47:11,799
Speaker 13: see just a speed up at the border, and I

928
00:47:11,840 --> 00:47:15,520
Speaker 13: think that that's the powerful images that we're seeing people

929
00:47:15,680 --> 00:47:17,320
Speaker 13: just streaming across the border.

930
00:47:18,000 --> 00:47:20,800
Speaker 8: Yeah, and it potentially could be more of a tidal

931
00:47:20,840 --> 00:47:23,640
Speaker 8: wave than a stream if really there are one hundred

932
00:47:23,640 --> 00:47:27,280
Speaker 8: and fifty thousand migrants, migrants that are planning to cross. Congressman,

933
00:47:27,280 --> 00:47:29,919
Speaker 8: how prepared is your district? How prepared is the State

934
00:47:29,920 --> 00:47:31,640
Speaker 8: of Texas for something like that?

935
00:47:32,719 --> 00:47:35,200
Speaker 13: Well, you know, first of all, I wish that the

936
00:47:35,400 --> 00:47:38,400
Speaker 13: State of Texas and the federal government would work together

937
00:47:38,560 --> 00:47:40,640
Speaker 13: like we used to in the old days. You know,

938
00:47:40,719 --> 00:47:43,359
Speaker 13: right now, you know, the only way they talk at

939
00:47:43,360 --> 00:47:45,839
Speaker 13: the heighth levels are through sound bites, and I don't

940
00:47:45,880 --> 00:47:49,080
Speaker 13: think that's the right way, and I wish we would

941
00:47:49,160 --> 00:47:51,759
Speaker 13: just work together on this. But I would say this

942
00:47:52,040 --> 00:47:55,720
Speaker 13: that I'm looking at the numbers that Border Patrol has

943
00:47:55,760 --> 00:47:59,920
Speaker 13: in their facilities, and I can say this, on the average,

944
00:48:00,040 --> 00:48:03,520
Speaker 13: they're like one hundred and thirty five percent over. I

945
00:48:03,560 --> 00:48:08,800
Speaker 13: mean that is capacity, so a percentage of full capacity.

946
00:48:09,000 --> 00:48:12,480
Speaker 13: That means they're over And if you look at almost

947
00:48:12,600 --> 00:48:16,839
Speaker 13: every sector sector except for maybe West Texas, they're over

948
00:48:16,880 --> 00:48:20,000
Speaker 13: one hundred percent. What does that mean? That means that

949
00:48:20,040 --> 00:48:22,040
Speaker 13: they can hold them there? For a period of time.

950
00:48:22,560 --> 00:48:24,520
Speaker 13: Then they got to work with the NGOs and the

951
00:48:24,600 --> 00:48:27,760
Speaker 13: local cities. And if the NGOs and the local border

952
00:48:27,760 --> 00:48:33,759
Speaker 13: communities get over capacity, that means one thing, they're going

953
00:48:33,800 --> 00:48:37,000
Speaker 13: to start releasing people on the streets or parole on

954
00:48:37,080 --> 00:48:40,120
Speaker 13: the streets. And again that's something that we don't want

955
00:48:40,120 --> 00:48:40,560
Speaker 13: to see.

956
00:48:41,480 --> 00:48:44,279
Speaker 2: I've got to go back to that number, Congressman, one

957
00:48:44,360 --> 00:48:46,560
Speaker 2: hundred and fifty thousand migrants. What does that look like?

958
00:48:46,600 --> 00:48:48,399
Speaker 2: Have we ever seen anything like that before in such

959
00:48:48,440 --> 00:48:49,480
Speaker 2: a short period of time.

960
00:48:50,239 --> 00:48:54,240
Speaker 13: Well, look, in the last two years, we've had about

961
00:48:54,360 --> 00:48:58,560
Speaker 13: four point three million encounters at the border that doesn't

962
00:48:58,600 --> 00:49:02,200
Speaker 13: include getaways. As of a month ago, I think we're

963
00:49:02,280 --> 00:49:05,000
Speaker 13: like at about one point three. We still got to

964
00:49:05,040 --> 00:49:07,080
Speaker 13: go all the way to September thirtyeth so we can

965
00:49:07,120 --> 00:49:09,080
Speaker 13: finish the fiscal year. So we're going to be over

966
00:49:09,160 --> 00:49:13,680
Speaker 13: two million this year. So if you had three years,

967
00:49:14,160 --> 00:49:17,399
Speaker 13: that's four point three. At another two million, that's six

968
00:49:17,480 --> 00:49:21,040
Speaker 13: point three million encounters in three years. I don't think

969
00:49:21,120 --> 00:49:25,120
Speaker 13: we've seen numbers like this. And again, without due respect,

970
00:49:26,280 --> 00:49:28,680
Speaker 13: you know we you know President Obama did not have

971
00:49:28,760 --> 00:49:31,759
Speaker 13: Title forty two. I know people talk about Title forty two.

972
00:49:32,239 --> 00:49:35,799
Speaker 13: He used the existing laws, which was Title eight, but

973
00:49:35,920 --> 00:49:41,040
Speaker 13: he did expedited removals and we just haven't seen that

974
00:49:41,239 --> 00:49:44,160
Speaker 13: happen now. I would say this that there's a new

975
00:49:44,239 --> 00:49:47,840
Speaker 13: rule coming in at eleven fifty nine, So when Title

976
00:49:47,880 --> 00:49:50,239
Speaker 13: forty two goes away, there's a new rule that comes

977
00:49:50,280 --> 00:49:52,720
Speaker 13: in which says that if you come in between ports,

978
00:49:52,760 --> 00:49:56,000
Speaker 13: that will push you back, or if you come in

979
00:49:56,040 --> 00:49:59,960
Speaker 13: through a third country. Let's say you're coming in from India,

980
00:50:00,080 --> 00:50:03,080
Speaker 13: for example, You're going to stop at some country where

981
00:50:03,080 --> 00:50:05,120
Speaker 13: you could ask for asylum, and if you don't ask

982
00:50:05,120 --> 00:50:08,640
Speaker 13: for asylum, then there will be a rebuttable presumption that

983
00:50:09,640 --> 00:50:11,960
Speaker 13: you're going to be rejected. So therefore there are some

984
00:50:12,160 --> 00:50:16,400
Speaker 13: things in place, including the agreements with Panama and Colombia

985
00:50:16,640 --> 00:50:20,279
Speaker 13: doing processing over there. The only thing is, I think

986
00:50:20,440 --> 00:50:22,719
Speaker 13: this thing should have been done a long time ago

987
00:50:22,880 --> 00:50:26,520
Speaker 13: instead of being done at eleven fifty nine PM when

988
00:50:26,560 --> 00:50:27,920
Speaker 13: Title forty two goes away.

989
00:50:28,480 --> 00:50:31,320
Speaker 8: Well, but as we heard from Secretary in Majorcas earlier

990
00:50:31,400 --> 00:50:33,239
Speaker 8: and we played a little bit of that, he says

991
00:50:33,280 --> 00:50:36,600
Speaker 8: they've been planning for this four years and they believe

992
00:50:36,680 --> 00:50:40,239
Speaker 8: that plan will deliver results. Do you feel that the

993
00:50:40,280 --> 00:50:42,800
Speaker 8: administration's words are mismatched with reality.

994
00:50:44,200 --> 00:50:48,840
Speaker 13: Well, again, I have a good working relationship with the

995
00:50:48,920 --> 00:50:51,400
Speaker 13: Secretary and I will continue working with him as the

996
00:50:51,480 --> 00:50:55,280
Speaker 13: ranking member and Appropriations and with Troy Miller this acting

997
00:50:55,400 --> 00:50:58,480
Speaker 13: CBP Commissioner, and dra Wulartis and the other folks that

998
00:50:58,520 --> 00:51:03,120
Speaker 13: they have. And I know sometimes they're constrained by higher forces.

999
00:51:03,160 --> 00:51:08,040
Speaker 13: I understand all that, but again, you know what's missing

1000
00:51:08,080 --> 00:51:13,400
Speaker 13: from all this or repercussions. Repercussions if you don't send

1001
00:51:13,440 --> 00:51:16,840
Speaker 13: people back when you're supposed to send people back. And

1002
00:51:17,160 --> 00:51:19,960
Speaker 13: again I say this without respect. You know, if you

1003
00:51:20,000 --> 00:51:22,560
Speaker 13: get one hundred people in front of an immigration judge,

1004
00:51:22,560 --> 00:51:24,840
Speaker 13: it depends you know what country they're from, but just

1005
00:51:25,000 --> 00:51:28,200
Speaker 13: generally eighty eight to ninety percent are going to be rejected.

1006
00:51:28,280 --> 00:51:31,279
Speaker 13: So why are we allowing more than ten to twelve

1007
00:51:31,360 --> 00:51:33,600
Speaker 13: percent of the people in. Why are we not doing

1008
00:51:33,640 --> 00:51:35,799
Speaker 13: more of that work at the border? Why are we

1009
00:51:35,840 --> 00:51:39,879
Speaker 13: allowing people to go in and wait for years when

1010
00:51:39,920 --> 00:51:41,880
Speaker 13: at the end of the you know those years that

1011
00:51:41,920 --> 00:51:45,160
Speaker 13: they're waiting and immigration judge is going to deny them.

1012
00:51:45,280 --> 00:51:47,799
Speaker 13: So it's not fair to them and it's certainly not

1013
00:51:47,880 --> 00:51:50,440
Speaker 13: fair to the taxpayers. And if you look at housing

1014
00:51:50,520 --> 00:51:53,480
Speaker 13: these people have to live somewhere. They have to live somewhere.

1015
00:51:53,640 --> 00:51:56,879
Speaker 13: If you look at the Secretary of HUD, her testimony

1016
00:51:57,080 --> 00:52:02,040
Speaker 13: was that we're about seven million homes, affordable homes away

1017
00:52:02,040 --> 00:52:04,359
Speaker 13: from the needs that we have. If you have one

1018
00:52:04,440 --> 00:52:09,520
Speaker 13: hundred low income individuals, there's only thirty three rentals that

1019
00:52:09,560 --> 00:52:13,920
Speaker 13: are available for those one hundred low income renters. So

1020
00:52:14,360 --> 00:52:17,640
Speaker 13: why are we adding more to a problem that we

1021
00:52:17,680 --> 00:52:19,839
Speaker 13: can't even catch up here in the US with our

1022
00:52:19,840 --> 00:52:20,640
Speaker 13: own citizens.

1023
00:52:21,360 --> 00:52:23,920
Speaker 2: Congressman, I have to ask you, your Republican colleagues, and

1024
00:52:23,920 --> 00:52:25,759
Speaker 2: the House set to vote on a border security and

1025
00:52:25,760 --> 00:52:29,440
Speaker 2: immigration package here, do you support any of its components?

1026
00:52:31,280 --> 00:52:33,880
Speaker 13: The key question is any of the components? Yes, I

1027
00:52:33,920 --> 00:52:36,560
Speaker 13: do support some of the key components. Some of the

1028
00:52:36,680 --> 00:52:42,520
Speaker 13: components there adding more personnel, support, staff, technology, making sure

1029
00:52:42,600 --> 00:52:45,760
Speaker 13: that we have roads and get rid of the carrisocaine,

1030
00:52:45,800 --> 00:52:48,440
Speaker 13: which is good for border patrol. There's a lot of

1031
00:52:48,480 --> 00:52:51,200
Speaker 13: things that we've been working on, stone Garden, helping the

1032
00:52:51,239 --> 00:52:55,880
Speaker 13: local law enforcement. Those are things that we have appropriated.

1033
00:52:56,239 --> 00:52:58,680
Speaker 13: The problem is they didn't sit down with us. They

1034
00:52:58,719 --> 00:53:01,640
Speaker 13: didn't sit down with any Democrat to work this out.

1035
00:53:01,680 --> 00:53:04,160
Speaker 13: That inn't accept any amendments, and in fact it's a

1036
00:53:04,200 --> 00:53:07,120
Speaker 13: close rule. Do you remember when the Republicans took over,

1037
00:53:07,200 --> 00:53:10,040
Speaker 13: they said, what open rules we're going to have democracy.

1038
00:53:10,120 --> 00:53:12,760
Speaker 13: We're going to let all the amendments come in. There's

1039
00:53:12,800 --> 00:53:16,160
Speaker 13: no amendments. They're going to be allowed here. And so

1040
00:53:16,200 --> 00:53:19,279
Speaker 13: they're not taking input from folks like myself that we

1041
00:53:19,360 --> 00:53:22,480
Speaker 13: don't go visit the border we actually live here. And

1042
00:53:22,560 --> 00:53:25,080
Speaker 13: by the way, the last two years, and I'll finish

1043
00:53:25,120 --> 00:53:27,960
Speaker 13: with this, the last two years since the Trump administration,

1044
00:53:28,040 --> 00:53:32,120
Speaker 13: we've added two point four billion dollars to CBP. That's

1045
00:53:32,160 --> 00:53:35,960
Speaker 13: over a fifteen percent increase. Look at the last appropriation billboard,

1046
00:53:35,960 --> 00:53:38,880
Speaker 13: we had a more border patrol, more technology, more cameras,

1047
00:53:38,920 --> 00:53:42,520
Speaker 13: more more vehicles, you know, support for our border patrol

1048
00:53:43,200 --> 00:53:46,799
Speaker 13: except for nine Republicans that voted for that. And I

1049
00:53:46,840 --> 00:53:49,600
Speaker 13: think there's only two remaining from the nine that voted.

1050
00:53:50,000 --> 00:53:53,359
Speaker 13: The rest of the you know Republican colleagues voted no.

1051
00:53:53,600 --> 00:53:57,000
Speaker 13: So you know, you can't say you're for border patrol

1052
00:53:57,239 --> 00:54:00,640
Speaker 13: and then vote against their budget or against their appropriation

1053
00:54:00,800 --> 00:54:03,239
Speaker 13: budget on that. So what we need to do is,

1054
00:54:03,480 --> 00:54:05,840
Speaker 13: you know, get this messaging bill out of the way,

1055
00:54:05,920 --> 00:54:09,440
Speaker 13: and then I think folks like Tony Gonzalez and Michael McCall.

1056
00:54:09,640 --> 00:54:11,640
Speaker 13: You know those are Republicans. We're going to sit down

1057
00:54:11,640 --> 00:54:13,120
Speaker 13: and we're going to see we can work on some

1058
00:54:13,239 --> 00:54:13,960
Speaker 13: things together.

1059
00:54:14,080 --> 00:54:15,440
Speaker 2: Well, I think I know the answer to this then,

1060
00:54:15,480 --> 00:54:17,760
Speaker 2: But how about the border wall. This bill would resume construction,

1061
00:54:17,840 --> 00:54:20,120
Speaker 2: even though Donald Trump said last night he finished the wall.

1062
00:54:20,160 --> 00:54:21,080
Speaker 2: Is that a waste of money?

1063
00:54:22,560 --> 00:54:24,799
Speaker 13: You know, on the average, we spent about thirty six

1064
00:54:24,880 --> 00:54:29,319
Speaker 13: million dollars on one mile of fencing, and if you

1065
00:54:29,880 --> 00:54:32,880
Speaker 13: look at one mile of fencing for technology, it'll be

1066
00:54:32,920 --> 00:54:35,520
Speaker 13: about two to three million dollars. So it's more effective

1067
00:54:35,920 --> 00:54:39,839
Speaker 13: to have cameras, drones and that type of technology. And

1068
00:54:39,840 --> 00:54:44,400
Speaker 13: by the way, you spend thirty six million dollars a mile,

1069
00:54:44,880 --> 00:54:46,960
Speaker 13: all I need is one hundred dollars and I'll buy

1070
00:54:47,000 --> 00:54:49,280
Speaker 13: a ladder that will get you over that fence.

1071
00:54:50,920 --> 00:54:53,480
Speaker 8: Well, as we talk about some of these efforts to

1072
00:54:53,560 --> 00:54:55,920
Speaker 8: deter people from coming to the border, whether it is

1073
00:54:56,120 --> 00:54:58,960
Speaker 8: a physical wall or a legal one, this is something

1074
00:54:58,960 --> 00:55:00,560
Speaker 8: that one of our Bloomberg you can call mn this

1075
00:55:00,680 --> 00:55:02,920
Speaker 8: Eduardo Porter was writing about today and he said, and

1076
00:55:02,960 --> 00:55:05,600
Speaker 8: this is a quote, the set of incentives pushing migrants

1077
00:55:05,640 --> 00:55:08,200
Speaker 8: to the US is extremely powerful. A massive effort will

1078
00:55:08,239 --> 00:55:10,520
Speaker 8: be needed to raise the cost or reduce the benefit

1079
00:55:10,880 --> 00:55:14,400
Speaker 8: of migration. To blunt it, Congressman, is the US only

1080
00:55:14,440 --> 00:55:17,000
Speaker 8: looking at one side of this issue? Should we also

1081
00:55:17,040 --> 00:55:20,360
Speaker 8: be addressing the reasons why people are coming to the border.

1082
00:55:22,320 --> 00:55:26,160
Speaker 13: Back in twenty fourteen, Cake Ranger, who's now the Chairwoman

1083
00:55:26,200 --> 00:55:29,120
Speaker 13: of Appropriations of myself, we worked on the House side.

1084
00:55:29,160 --> 00:55:32,400
Speaker 13: We added moneys the first seven hundred and fifty million

1085
00:55:32,480 --> 00:55:36,359
Speaker 13: dollars to help Central American countries. If you look at it,

1086
00:55:36,400 --> 00:55:40,080
Speaker 13: over the years, we've added billions of dollars to the

1087
00:55:40,120 --> 00:55:44,520
Speaker 13: Central American countries. And remember it's not only those three countries,

1088
00:55:44,600 --> 00:55:47,719
Speaker 13: Guadmala and Dua's at Salo Iod. Remember the countries I

1089
00:55:47,880 --> 00:55:52,360
Speaker 13: just gave you right now, I now mentioned Venezuela, Columbia, Peru.

1090
00:55:52,560 --> 00:55:59,160
Speaker 13: You got other places like China, Brazil, India, and I

1091
00:55:59,200 --> 00:56:02,040
Speaker 13: can go on turn and all that so we can

1092
00:56:02,120 --> 00:56:05,680
Speaker 13: address issues. And you know, we were focusing on the

1093
00:56:05,719 --> 00:56:08,799
Speaker 13: Central Americans, but now more people are coming in, so

1094
00:56:09,120 --> 00:56:12,040
Speaker 13: there are push factors. But at the same time you

1095
00:56:12,160 --> 00:56:14,120
Speaker 13: got to look at the pull factors. And one of

1096
00:56:14,160 --> 00:56:16,600
Speaker 13: the pool factors is that if you don't have the

1097
00:56:16,680 --> 00:56:20,239
Speaker 13: right policies the right repercussions of the border. People will

1098
00:56:20,280 --> 00:56:22,120
Speaker 13: look at it at a speed bump. And I want

1099
00:56:22,160 --> 00:56:24,200
Speaker 13: you to do the math with me. In the last

1100
00:56:24,200 --> 00:56:28,800
Speaker 13: two years or now three years, we will have probably

1101
00:56:28,880 --> 00:56:33,279
Speaker 13: over six point three million encounters. You multiply that by

1102
00:56:33,360 --> 00:56:36,360
Speaker 13: eight thousand dollars, which is the average cost at a

1103
00:56:36,440 --> 00:56:41,040
Speaker 13: coyote or criminal organization word charge a migrant to come

1104
00:56:41,040 --> 00:56:45,799
Speaker 13: into the US average, that's over fifty billion dollars. And

1105
00:56:45,880 --> 00:56:50,040
Speaker 13: that is over fifty billion dollars. That doesn't include money

1106
00:56:49,760 --> 00:56:53,160
Speaker 13: that they make on selling drugs itself. So it's a

1107
00:56:53,239 --> 00:56:57,960
Speaker 13: very lucrative business for them. And I feel bad for

1108
00:56:58,400 --> 00:57:01,239
Speaker 13: the migrants that some times don't even make it to

1109
00:57:01,320 --> 00:57:05,440
Speaker 13: the border because they're taken by the criminal organizations.

1110
00:57:06,719 --> 00:57:10,480
Speaker 2: Well, there's a lot to talk about here, Congressman. I

1111
00:57:10,520 --> 00:57:12,320
Speaker 2: do want to ask you about what's happening on the

1112
00:57:12,360 --> 00:57:14,840
Speaker 2: other side of the border. Though apparently Mexico has cleared

1113
00:57:14,840 --> 00:57:17,440
Speaker 2: despite these regional processing centers that have been set up,

1114
00:57:18,000 --> 00:57:21,960
Speaker 2: a much larger number of migrants to pass through their

1115
00:57:22,000 --> 00:57:25,840
Speaker 2: country to get to the US border. Is Mexico doing

1116
00:57:25,960 --> 00:57:28,960
Speaker 2: enough as a partner in helping us prepare for this.

1117
00:57:29,480 --> 00:57:32,280
Speaker 13: You know, they can do a lot more, And especially

1118
00:57:32,680 --> 00:57:35,240
Speaker 13: as you and I are talking, I'm looking at the

1119
00:57:35,360 --> 00:57:38,680
Speaker 13: numbers that we estimate are in Mexico and each of

1120
00:57:38,720 --> 00:57:41,920
Speaker 13: the individual Mexican states. They can do a lot more.

1121
00:57:42,000 --> 00:57:44,600
Speaker 13: And I've told the Mexicans, hey, it's not only a

1122
00:57:44,760 --> 00:57:48,000
Speaker 13: US problem. It becomes a problem because some of them

1123
00:57:48,040 --> 00:57:50,040
Speaker 13: are not going to make it into the US and

1124
00:57:50,040 --> 00:57:52,920
Speaker 13: they're going to stay there. And if you have problems

1125
00:57:52,920 --> 00:57:56,040
Speaker 13: with an employment, imagine if you keep out in hundreds

1126
00:57:56,040 --> 00:57:59,520
Speaker 13: and hundreds of thousands of people there to Mexico. So

1127
00:57:59,720 --> 00:58:03,800
Speaker 13: it's it's a joint responsibility. And yes, Mexico can do

1128
00:58:04,080 --> 00:58:07,840
Speaker 13: a lot better. Keep in mind that Trump used threats

1129
00:58:07,960 --> 00:58:12,000
Speaker 13: to get Mexico to do more, keep in mind that

1130
00:58:12,080 --> 00:58:16,800
Speaker 13: Obama used a different type of carrot instead of a stick.

1131
00:58:17,120 --> 00:58:19,680
Speaker 13: And actually, believe it or not, there were times, and

1132
00:58:19,720 --> 00:58:22,720
Speaker 13: I had to look at this several times, but Mexico

1133
00:58:22,800 --> 00:58:26,320
Speaker 13: at the southern border during the Obama administration at times

1134
00:58:26,880 --> 00:58:30,680
Speaker 13: was returning more people into Guatemala than the US Border

1135
00:58:30,720 --> 00:58:33,960
Speaker 13: Patrol was doing. And I had to double check those numbers.

1136
00:58:34,480 --> 00:58:37,240
Speaker 13: So there's ways of working with Mexico. We just got

1137
00:58:37,240 --> 00:58:40,320
Speaker 13: to find the right formula to make sure they understand

1138
00:58:40,360 --> 00:58:42,760
Speaker 13: that it's a joint responsibility.

1139
00:58:43,040 --> 00:58:45,640
Speaker 8: Speaking of joint responsibility, I'd like to quickly turn we

1140
00:58:45,720 --> 00:58:47,840
Speaker 8: just have a minute left here to the debt ceiling.

1141
00:58:47,880 --> 00:58:50,480
Speaker 8: The President just tweeted a few minutes ago that Republicans

1142
00:58:50,480 --> 00:58:53,240
Speaker 8: in Congress have offered two options, either past their devastating

1143
00:58:53,280 --> 00:58:57,000
Speaker 8: cuts or default. What about the third option? Why not negotiate?

1144
00:58:57,680 --> 00:59:00,840
Speaker 13: Well, you know, surely if you look at it. You know,

1145
00:59:00,960 --> 00:59:03,720
Speaker 13: first people will give their positions and you know, just

1146
00:59:03,760 --> 00:59:07,280
Speaker 13: what happened at that meeting number one, and then after that,

1147
00:59:07,440 --> 00:59:11,080
Speaker 13: you know, people should start and negotiating. You know, I

1148
00:59:11,160 --> 00:59:15,320
Speaker 13: find it interesting during the Trump administration, Trump and four

1149
00:59:15,400 --> 00:59:18,720
Speaker 13: years added about I think it was seven point eight

1150
00:59:18,840 --> 00:59:22,960
Speaker 13: trillion dollars in four years. Obama added, you know, nine

1151
00:59:23,160 --> 00:59:27,520
Speaker 13: trillion dollars in eight years. When Trump was there, our

1152
00:59:27,560 --> 00:59:30,760
Speaker 13: Republican friends raised their you know, race the debt ceiling

1153
00:59:30,840 --> 00:59:35,560
Speaker 13: three times without any leverage, without anything, and they didn't

1154
00:59:35,560 --> 00:59:37,760
Speaker 13: say anything about the debt. But as soon as the

1155
00:59:37,800 --> 00:59:40,040
Speaker 13: Democrat gets there, all of a sudden, they wake.

1156
00:59:39,920 --> 00:59:41,800
Speaker 8: Down the problem.

1157
00:59:42,040 --> 00:59:45,600
Speaker 13: So I think we should look at the third option

1158
00:59:46,040 --> 00:59:48,480
Speaker 13: and try to see if we can work something out.

1159
00:59:49,360 --> 00:59:51,480
Speaker 2: Congress, been great to have you back. We'd love to

1160
00:59:51,480 --> 00:59:53,840
Speaker 2: hear your insights once Title forty two is lifted. To

1161
00:59:53,840 --> 00:59:55,240
Speaker 2: see where we are in a couple of weeks here

1162
00:59:55,240 --> 00:59:58,640
Speaker 2: Congressman Henry quay Are, Democrat from Texas getting things started

1163
00:59:58,640 --> 01:00:00,720
Speaker 2: here as anyone's guest, what's about that happened though, Kaylee?

1164
01:00:00,720 --> 01:00:03,560
Speaker 2: He says, one hundred and fifty thousand migrants. Yeah, a

1165
01:00:03,680 --> 01:00:04,480
Speaker 2: massive number.

1166
01:00:04,760 --> 01:00:07,240
Speaker 8: The optics will be very difficult for this administration.

1167
01:00:08,920 --> 01:00:12,400
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound On podcast Catch us

1168
01:00:12,440 --> 01:00:14,360
Speaker 1: Live weekdays at one Eastern.

1169
01:00:14,160 --> 01:00:17,360
Speaker 15: On Bloomberg dot com, the iHeartRadio app and the Bloomberg

1170
01:00:17,440 --> 01:00:21,520
Speaker 15: Business app, or listening on demand wherever you get your podcasts.

1171
01:00:22,120 --> 01:00:24,800
Speaker 2: From the border to banking. Hey, it's Bloomberg. That's what

1172
01:00:24,840 --> 01:00:27,040
Speaker 2: you get here. Welcome to Sound On. I'm Joe Matthew

1173
01:00:27,040 --> 01:00:29,919
Speaker 2: with Kaylee Lines. And boy, you know we talked about

1174
01:00:29,960 --> 01:00:33,000
Speaker 2: Title forty two. Those restrictions lift at midnight, Kaylee, and

1175
01:00:33,000 --> 01:00:35,320
Speaker 2: that's going to be probably the lead story I presume

1176
01:00:35,400 --> 01:00:36,160
Speaker 2: tomorrow morning.

1177
01:00:36,280 --> 01:00:36,440
Speaker 8: Yeah.

1178
01:00:36,520 --> 01:00:40,760
Speaker 2: Here at Bloomberg though, we're constantly following this banking crisis.

1179
01:00:40,800 --> 01:00:42,920
Speaker 2: We heard Jamie diamond Way in this morning, and now

1180
01:00:42,920 --> 01:00:44,800
Speaker 2: the FDIC is making waves as well.

1181
01:00:44,960 --> 01:00:45,160
Speaker 17: Yeah.

1182
01:00:45,160 --> 01:00:47,360
Speaker 8: Well, remember the FDIC has a bit of a hole

1183
01:00:47,520 --> 01:00:50,680
Speaker 8: to fill. It has to fill about fifteen point eight

1184
01:00:50,720 --> 01:00:53,440
Speaker 8: billion dollars that it had to expel from the Deposit

1185
01:00:53,520 --> 01:00:56,320
Speaker 8: Insurance Fund because of the failures of Silicon Valley Bank

1186
01:00:56,360 --> 01:00:59,360
Speaker 8: and Signature Bank. So they today released a proposal. Granted

1187
01:00:59,440 --> 01:01:01,440
Speaker 8: it's not finezed yet, but what they want to do.

1188
01:01:01,480 --> 01:01:04,720
Speaker 8: The gist of it is institutions with more than fifty

1189
01:01:04,760 --> 01:01:07,240
Speaker 8: billion dollars in assets would have to pay ninety five

1190
01:01:07,320 --> 01:01:10,720
Speaker 8: percent of the assessment fees to refill that fund. Those

1191
01:01:10,760 --> 01:01:13,560
Speaker 8: with less than five billion dollars wouldn't have to pay.

1192
01:01:14,640 --> 01:01:17,680
Speaker 8: So this basically is that the larger banks are the

1193
01:01:17,720 --> 01:01:20,400
Speaker 8: ones that have to take the hit as a consequence

1194
01:01:20,440 --> 01:01:23,280
Speaker 8: of what has gone down over the last several months.

1195
01:01:23,360 --> 01:01:25,520
Speaker 8: So how is it going to go down for these banks?

1196
01:01:25,640 --> 01:01:27,200
Speaker 8: Good thing for us, Joe. We have an all star

1197
01:01:27,240 --> 01:01:29,920
Speaker 8: Bloomberg intelligence panel with us here today. Herman Chan is

1198
01:01:29,960 --> 01:01:33,040
Speaker 8: our regional bank analyst who has become the most popular

1199
01:01:33,080 --> 01:01:35,800
Speaker 8: man in the Bloomberg universe in the last several months,

1200
01:01:35,840 --> 01:01:38,200
Speaker 8: and Nathan Dean is joining us once again here in

1201
01:01:38,240 --> 01:01:41,680
Speaker 8: our Washington studio. He is our senior analyst for US policy.

1202
01:01:41,760 --> 01:01:44,920
Speaker 8: So Herman just to start with you, what does this

1203
01:01:45,040 --> 01:01:46,960
Speaker 8: mean for the banks that are going to have to

1204
01:01:46,960 --> 01:01:47,400
Speaker 8: pay up?

1205
01:01:47,840 --> 01:01:50,840
Speaker 19: Yeah, so the crux of it is that the banks

1206
01:01:50,840 --> 01:01:56,480
Speaker 19: that rely much more on uninsured deposits, so larger corporate

1207
01:01:56,760 --> 01:02:01,720
Speaker 19: commercial deposits, will pay more for the assessment to replenish

1208
01:02:01,800 --> 01:02:05,360
Speaker 19: the insurance fund. And it just means another headwind for

1209
01:02:05,800 --> 01:02:08,240
Speaker 19: regional banks and for the largest banks in terms of

1210
01:02:08,320 --> 01:02:13,160
Speaker 19: higher expenses. There's a lot of fundamental negatives for the regionals,

1211
01:02:13,160 --> 01:02:20,480
Speaker 19: including weaker loans to unstable deposits, weaker net interest margins,

1212
01:02:20,520 --> 01:02:24,400
Speaker 19: tougher fees, and higher expenses from the insurance fund assessments.

1213
01:02:24,720 --> 01:02:27,480
Speaker 19: Is just something else to add to the list.

1214
01:02:28,000 --> 01:02:31,320
Speaker 2: Nathan. We're talking billions of dollars here. You say almost

1215
01:02:31,400 --> 01:02:33,800
Speaker 2: sixteen billion dollars in your analysis.

1216
01:02:34,040 --> 01:02:36,360
Speaker 20: Yeah, so you know, there was fifteen point eight billion

1217
01:02:36,400 --> 01:02:39,600
Speaker 20: that the FDIC is trying to recoup here. And one

1218
01:02:39,640 --> 01:02:41,640
Speaker 20: of the bigger questions that were One of the things

1219
01:02:41,720 --> 01:02:44,680
Speaker 20: we should note is that this is a proposal. The

1220
01:02:44,720 --> 01:02:46,360
Speaker 20: FDIC is going to take comments on it.

1221
01:02:46,400 --> 01:02:46,560
Speaker 12: Now.

1222
01:02:46,560 --> 01:02:48,800
Speaker 20: I don't think the FDIC is going to change it

1223
01:02:48,920 --> 01:02:51,960
Speaker 20: all that much, but when they finalize it, the impacted

1224
01:02:51,960 --> 01:02:53,439
Speaker 20: banks are going to have to pay this out over

1225
01:02:53,480 --> 01:02:56,200
Speaker 20: eight quarters starting in twenty twenty four. The one thing

1226
01:02:56,200 --> 01:02:59,600
Speaker 20: this proposal is not is not a decision to backstop

1227
01:02:59,640 --> 01:03:03,040
Speaker 20: on deposits. So there's a lot of regional bankers out there.

1228
01:03:03,120 --> 01:03:05,280
Speaker 20: We've even heard from some of the industry saying we

1229
01:03:05,320 --> 01:03:08,520
Speaker 20: need to backstop over all deposits. This is not that

1230
01:03:08,520 --> 01:03:11,080
Speaker 20: that still realies with Congress, and you know, we just

1231
01:03:11,080 --> 01:03:12,840
Speaker 20: don't think Congress is really going to do anything on

1232
01:03:12,880 --> 01:03:13,200
Speaker 20: that front.

1233
01:03:13,200 --> 01:03:15,000
Speaker 8: Mod Well, and we may get some clues into that

1234
01:03:15,040 --> 01:03:17,800
Speaker 8: next week, Joe, because there's not one, but two bank

1235
01:03:17,840 --> 01:03:20,800
Speaker 8: failures hearings happening in the Senate Banking Committee next week.

1236
01:03:20,800 --> 01:03:23,760
Speaker 8: On Tuesdays, it'll be the former executives from SVB and Signature,

1237
01:03:23,760 --> 01:03:25,720
Speaker 8: who we have all been long waiting to hear from.

1238
01:03:25,720 --> 01:03:27,800
Speaker 8: But then on Thursday, it's the regulators back in the

1239
01:03:27,800 --> 01:03:32,000
Speaker 8: hot seat, including FDIC chair Marty Grumberg. So, Nathan, do

1240
01:03:32,000 --> 01:03:34,800
Speaker 8: you think we'll get anything real out of that, anything

1241
01:03:34,840 --> 01:03:35,959
Speaker 8: tangible out of that hearing?

1242
01:03:36,200 --> 01:03:38,120
Speaker 20: So I think about two thirds of it is going

1243
01:03:38,160 --> 01:03:40,120
Speaker 20: to be political posturing, and we have to get there.

1244
01:03:40,600 --> 01:03:41,120
Speaker 12: It always is.

1245
01:03:41,200 --> 01:03:43,640
Speaker 20: I mean, you're going to have the people seeking the

1246
01:03:43,680 --> 01:03:45,880
Speaker 20: news bites. But then you're gonna have about one third

1247
01:03:45,920 --> 01:03:48,040
Speaker 20: of the questions, and this will probably be more so

1248
01:03:48,160 --> 01:03:51,600
Speaker 20: in the House hearing than the Senate hearing. These questions

1249
01:03:51,680 --> 01:03:53,520
Speaker 20: will be Okay, what should we do? What is the

1250
01:03:53,560 --> 01:03:55,800
Speaker 20: pause here? And the question that we have is really

1251
01:03:55,840 --> 01:03:59,880
Speaker 20: two things. One, will Congress do anything for FDIC insurance

1252
01:04:00,000 --> 01:04:02,320
Speaker 20: which is currently capted two undred fifty thousand right now?

1253
01:04:02,400 --> 01:04:04,560
Speaker 20: We don't think so, but there is some potential idea

1254
01:04:04,600 --> 01:04:08,360
Speaker 20: of maybe business payment accounts get some backstop. In Two,

1255
01:04:08,840 --> 01:04:11,520
Speaker 20: what is the regulatory response to this? Is this going

1256
01:04:11,560 --> 01:04:14,920
Speaker 20: to be higher enhanced pinanial standards for the banks that

1257
01:04:14,920 --> 01:04:18,520
Speaker 20: Herman covers and for example, or tighter liquidity coverage ratios.

1258
01:04:19,000 --> 01:04:21,120
Speaker 20: So you know, we want to hear from the regulators

1259
01:04:21,120 --> 01:04:22,680
Speaker 20: that A they're going to do it and B when

1260
01:04:22,680 --> 01:04:23,600
Speaker 20: are they going to propose it?

1261
01:04:24,040 --> 01:04:27,160
Speaker 2: Herman I talked to a senior Republican staffer on Capitol

1262
01:04:27,240 --> 01:04:29,320
Speaker 2: Hill this morning who said, look, this is a CEO,

1263
01:04:29,720 --> 01:04:34,800
Speaker 2: a leadership issue, or a supervision issue. The story's over.

1264
01:04:35,400 --> 01:04:40,120
Speaker 2: How much of this will fall along party lines? I

1265
01:04:40,160 --> 01:04:42,640
Speaker 2: agree with say all of it? You right? Okay?

1266
01:04:42,720 --> 01:04:46,560
Speaker 19: That a lot of this was CEO and management and

1267
01:04:46,600 --> 01:04:51,120
Speaker 19: mismanagement of risks that were underappreciated when interest rates were zero.

1268
01:04:51,880 --> 01:04:55,200
Speaker 19: These banks like SVB and First Republic added interest rate

1269
01:04:55,280 --> 01:04:58,720
Speaker 19: risk and weren't expecting fed Fund's rates to be where

1270
01:04:58,720 --> 01:05:02,560
Speaker 19: they are today. On the other hand, regulators were a

1271
01:05:02,560 --> 01:05:07,400
Speaker 19: bit slow on the real to to come in and

1272
01:05:07,480 --> 01:05:10,760
Speaker 19: push the management teams to do something about the risk

1273
01:05:10,800 --> 01:05:13,120
Speaker 19: they were adding to the balance sheet. So I think

1274
01:05:13,120 --> 01:05:17,080
Speaker 19: there's a little bit to go around. I think it's

1275
01:05:17,120 --> 01:05:20,680
Speaker 19: something that is iderosyncratic, and we don't think it's a

1276
01:05:20,680 --> 01:05:24,000
Speaker 19: systemic issue. And we've seen some of the banks trading today,

1277
01:05:24,120 --> 01:05:27,440
Speaker 19: like Western Alliance that are still seeing some stable deposits

1278
01:05:27,720 --> 01:05:28,760
Speaker 19: despite the headline risk.

1279
01:05:29,040 --> 01:05:31,800
Speaker 8: Well Western Alliances, but we also had pack West, which

1280
01:05:31,840 --> 01:05:34,320
Speaker 8: is one of the banks we've been very closely watching

1281
01:05:34,360 --> 01:05:37,240
Speaker 8: after we got news that it was exploring its strategic options.

1282
01:05:37,480 --> 01:05:40,360
Speaker 8: It's down twenty percent because it said at the end

1283
01:05:40,400 --> 01:05:42,520
Speaker 8: of last week that nine point five percent of its

1284
01:05:42,560 --> 01:05:44,920
Speaker 8: deposits fled, which is kind of speaks to this ongoing

1285
01:05:45,000 --> 01:05:47,920
Speaker 8: question about if the regional banks are okay, if this

1286
01:05:48,000 --> 01:05:51,120
Speaker 8: crisis is over. And Jamie Diamond, the CEO of JP Morgan,

1287
01:05:51,160 --> 01:05:53,880
Speaker 8: which of course bought one of the failed banks, First Republic,

1288
01:05:54,240 --> 01:05:55,320
Speaker 8: had this to say.

1289
01:05:55,200 --> 01:05:57,520
Speaker 21: We need to finish the bank crisis. We've had uncertain

1290
01:05:57,520 --> 01:06:00,480
Speaker 21: policy on mergers. As first arison deal, I think we

1291
01:06:00,520 --> 01:06:02,480
Speaker 21: have to assume they'll be a little bit more so,

1292
01:06:02,600 --> 01:06:05,320
Speaker 21: you know, whatever the FDI see the occ the Fellow Reserve,

1293
01:06:05,880 --> 01:06:09,520
Speaker 21: or whatever they need to do to make it better,

1294
01:06:09,520 --> 01:06:12,560
Speaker 21: they should do. Be thoughtful, be very forward looking. You

1295
01:06:12,760 --> 01:06:15,320
Speaker 21: not be surprised constantly because some of these things have

1296
01:06:15,320 --> 01:06:16,640
Speaker 21: been known about for quite a while.

1297
01:06:17,280 --> 01:06:20,320
Speaker 8: So whatever they need to do to make it better,

1298
01:06:20,320 --> 01:06:23,560
Speaker 8: they should do. Hermann, what is that with something like

1299
01:06:23,720 --> 01:06:27,480
Speaker 8: unlimited deposit insurance or just a higher cap on insurance

1300
01:06:27,520 --> 01:06:29,400
Speaker 8: be something that makes a difference here or is it

1301
01:06:29,440 --> 01:06:31,000
Speaker 8: now beyond this there.

1302
01:06:30,840 --> 01:06:33,120
Speaker 19: Needs to be some sort of holistic solution.

1303
01:06:33,440 --> 01:06:34,000
Speaker 9: I feel like.

1304
01:06:35,600 --> 01:06:39,760
Speaker 19: There's been piecemeal measures. For example, the thirty billion injected

1305
01:06:39,800 --> 01:06:44,960
Speaker 19: into First Republic ultimately didn't save that institution. Maybe a

1306
01:06:45,000 --> 01:06:49,520
Speaker 19: short term guarantee of deposits or higher threshold for deposit insurance,

1307
01:06:49,560 --> 01:06:53,080
Speaker 19: particularly for commercial deposits, is something that should really be

1308
01:06:53,200 --> 01:06:57,320
Speaker 19: looked at. Instill a bit more confidence and stability in

1309
01:06:57,400 --> 01:06:59,400
Speaker 19: financial markets for regionals.

1310
01:07:00,040 --> 01:07:01,880
Speaker 2: Mean I have to engage you and something Hermon. It's

1311
01:07:01,960 --> 01:07:03,200
Speaker 2: up to you if you want to weigh in on this,

1312
01:07:03,280 --> 01:07:08,120
Speaker 2: but I've got to ask you about the pot. We

1313
01:07:08,280 --> 01:07:12,320
Speaker 2: still call it that right. Major hearing today Senate Banking Committee,

1314
01:07:12,360 --> 01:07:14,560
Speaker 2: and we've talked about this before. You're talking to an

1315
01:07:14,560 --> 01:07:17,240
Speaker 2: audience that is well versed in the Safe Banking Act.

1316
01:07:17,280 --> 01:07:19,280
Speaker 2: We spoke with Congressman Ed Pearl Mutter when it was

1317
01:07:19,320 --> 01:07:21,280
Speaker 2: his pet issue. I think he had passed it in

1318
01:07:21,280 --> 01:07:24,320
Speaker 2: the House for the fifteenth time. There was hope and

1319
01:07:24,400 --> 01:07:26,200
Speaker 2: Chuck Schumer has made clear you wanted to bring a

1320
01:07:26,240 --> 01:07:29,240
Speaker 2: cannabis reform bill to the floor. This is the legislation

1321
01:07:29,280 --> 01:07:31,480
Speaker 2: that would essentially allow cannabis companies, many of which are

1322
01:07:31,480 --> 01:07:35,720
Speaker 2: publicly traded depends on which exchange you're talking about, to

1323
01:07:35,840 --> 01:07:39,000
Speaker 2: use banking services, to not have to carry cash everywhere,

1324
01:07:39,200 --> 01:07:41,320
Speaker 2: which is a security issue. I don't know if it

1325
01:07:41,320 --> 01:07:43,320
Speaker 2: would list them on exchanges or some other things, but

1326
01:07:43,360 --> 01:07:46,520
Speaker 2: just to have access to the banking system. By the

1327
01:07:46,520 --> 01:07:50,520
Speaker 2: looks of marijuana stocks today, this hearing did not go well.

1328
01:07:50,600 --> 01:07:51,760
Speaker 12: No, this was it done.

1329
01:07:51,800 --> 01:07:53,200
Speaker 20: I mean, this was something there.

1330
01:07:53,920 --> 01:07:54,120
Speaker 21: You know.

1331
01:07:54,160 --> 01:07:56,280
Speaker 20: We had two panels one the first panel was actually

1332
01:07:56,320 --> 01:07:59,680
Speaker 20: Senator Merkley and Senator Deanes, who are co sponsors of

1333
01:07:59,720 --> 01:08:02,720
Speaker 20: the bill. But you know, the big glaring thing for

1334
01:08:02,760 --> 01:08:05,800
Speaker 20: me is two things. One, Senator Tim Scott, the ranking member,

1335
01:08:06,400 --> 01:08:10,880
Speaker 20: gave a very moderate, open minded statement that essentially just

1336
01:08:10,920 --> 01:08:13,040
Speaker 20: said not really interested in this, but I'm not going

1337
01:08:13,120 --> 01:08:15,680
Speaker 20: to poopoo it right immediately. And the second thing is

1338
01:08:15,840 --> 01:08:17,720
Speaker 20: not a lot of other Republicans showed up for it,

1339
01:08:17,840 --> 01:08:20,559
Speaker 20: and so we just continually go back to the question

1340
01:08:20,640 --> 01:08:23,880
Speaker 20: of Okay, you know, if you have a bipartisan bill,

1341
01:08:23,960 --> 01:08:27,080
Speaker 20: that's fine, but is it bipartisan enough. Not really, I

1342
01:08:27,200 --> 01:08:30,280
Speaker 20: need to see more Republicans support here in order to

1343
01:08:30,320 --> 01:08:32,240
Speaker 20: think this thing's going to pass, and we're just not

1344
01:08:32,280 --> 01:08:32,680
Speaker 20: seeing it.

1345
01:08:34,160 --> 01:08:35,640
Speaker 2: Herman, you want to take a swing at that.

1346
01:08:36,120 --> 01:08:39,439
Speaker 19: Yeah, I just think that the banks in the system

1347
01:08:39,560 --> 01:08:43,760
Speaker 19: really need a more solution on a national basis in

1348
01:08:43,880 --> 01:08:47,400
Speaker 19: order to be able to transact with these companies. Until

1349
01:08:47,439 --> 01:08:49,640
Speaker 19: we get that solution, I think they're going to be

1350
01:08:49,720 --> 01:08:51,839
Speaker 19: outside of the banking system generally.

1351
01:08:52,360 --> 01:08:54,040
Speaker 8: Well, and of course, Joe, this all ties into the

1352
01:08:54,120 --> 01:08:57,000
Speaker 8: questions in the banking system already in the regulatory questions

1353
01:08:57,040 --> 01:08:59,040
Speaker 8: that we were just talking about after the failures. I mean,

1354
01:08:59,080 --> 01:09:02,120
Speaker 8: even Chairman Brown and his opening statement addressed how there

1355
01:09:02,160 --> 01:09:03,880
Speaker 8: needs to make you need to make sure that they're

1356
01:09:03,920 --> 01:09:08,280
Speaker 8: safeguards around this basically the idea that yes, we should

1357
01:09:08,280 --> 01:09:10,160
Speaker 8: give them access to banking system, but we also have

1358
01:09:10,240 --> 01:09:12,599
Speaker 8: to make sure that there's you know, safeguards around money

1359
01:09:12,640 --> 01:09:15,280
Speaker 8: laundering and things like that, which you know that may

1360
01:09:15,280 --> 01:09:17,320
Speaker 8: be the ghost of the bank failures and things gone

1361
01:09:17,280 --> 01:09:20,040
Speaker 8: awry recently that also come back to kind of haunt

1362
01:09:20,479 --> 01:09:21,040
Speaker 8: this effort.

1363
01:09:21,160 --> 01:09:24,880
Speaker 2: So the MSOs ETF is down what almost six percent?

1364
01:09:24,920 --> 01:09:27,160
Speaker 2: You mentioned, the MJ is down about.

1365
01:09:26,960 --> 01:09:27,759
Speaker 8: Six six percent.

1366
01:09:27,760 --> 01:09:28,559
Speaker 2: That's where we are, MJ.

1367
01:09:28,680 --> 01:09:30,160
Speaker 8: Can we all just appreciate that ticker?

1368
01:09:30,800 --> 01:09:32,280
Speaker 2: Well, there are a lot of Yolo is still my

1369
01:09:32,320 --> 01:09:35,559
Speaker 2: favorite of the ets. Sebastian in New York says, only

1370
01:09:35,640 --> 01:09:38,880
Speaker 2: narcs call it pot. I say, only people over forty

1371
01:09:38,880 --> 01:09:39,360
Speaker 2: call it pot.

1372
01:09:39,360 --> 01:09:41,719
Speaker 20: What do you think, Nathan, I'm in the pot crowd?

1373
01:09:42,000 --> 01:09:45,400
Speaker 2: Okay, all right, Well we'll get together next time. There's

1374
01:09:45,400 --> 01:09:50,240
Speaker 2: a weed hearing. Great conversation, Nathan, Dean Herman Chan love

1375
01:09:50,280 --> 01:09:52,960
Speaker 2: having you both. The best of Bloomberg Intelligence.

1376
01:09:54,120 --> 01:09:57,479
Speaker 1: You're listening to The Bloomberg Sound on podcast. Catch the

1377
01:09:57,520 --> 01:10:01,400
Speaker 1: program live weekdays at one eastern on Bloomberg Radio, the

1378
01:10:01,479 --> 01:10:03,640
Speaker 1: tune in alf Bloomberg dot Com.

1379
01:10:03,320 --> 01:10:04,800
Speaker 12: And the Bloomberg Business App.

1380
01:10:04,920 --> 01:10:07,800
Speaker 1: You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our

1381
01:10:07,800 --> 01:10:12,640
Speaker 1: flagship New York station, Just say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven thirty.

1382
01:10:13,960 --> 01:10:16,480
Speaker 2: Soon to be joined by the fearless Nancy Cook. Bloomberg

1383
01:10:16,800 --> 01:10:19,559
Speaker 2: correspondent has been spending a bit of time in Florida lately,

1384
01:10:19,600 --> 01:10:23,479
Speaker 2: and boy, Florida is in our sights today. Kaylee, you

1385
01:10:23,520 --> 01:10:26,120
Speaker 2: know we're talking about the border, but this is about Disney. Yeah,

1386
01:10:26,120 --> 01:10:28,320
Speaker 2: and the back and forth between Ronda Santis. I don't

1387
01:10:28,320 --> 01:10:30,080
Speaker 2: think we have to go through the whole prison and

1388
01:10:30,120 --> 01:10:32,400
Speaker 2: everything else that some of the games, although he did.

1389
01:10:32,479 --> 01:10:35,400
Speaker 2: Ronda Santis did regale us with his story of being

1390
01:10:35,439 --> 01:10:38,800
Speaker 2: married at Disney. At Disney World. Yeah, he and the

1391
01:10:38,840 --> 01:10:42,080
Speaker 2: First Lady of Florida have quite a routine talking about that.

1392
01:10:42,320 --> 01:10:44,840
Speaker 2: Just no mickey. He said it was a wonderful ceremony,

1393
01:10:45,479 --> 01:10:49,240
Speaker 2: but of course he's essentially a waged war on Disney.

1394
01:10:49,240 --> 01:10:53,240
Speaker 2: And following the earnings report yesterday, Bob Eiger really unleashed

1395
01:10:53,240 --> 01:10:56,360
Speaker 2: in the earnings conference call. He was prepared to.

1396
01:10:56,360 --> 01:10:59,040
Speaker 8: Hit this, Oh, he absolutely was. I mean he received

1397
01:10:59,040 --> 01:11:01,479
Speaker 8: a question about what is going on in Florida and

1398
01:11:01,520 --> 01:11:05,120
Speaker 8: he gave a lengthy answer, I would describe him as

1399
01:11:05,120 --> 01:11:05,559
Speaker 8: fired up.

1400
01:11:05,640 --> 01:11:05,800
Speaker 10: Joe.

1401
01:11:05,920 --> 01:11:06,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, here's just a taste.

1402
01:11:07,000 --> 01:11:09,240
Speaker 16: First of all, I think the case that we filed

1403
01:11:09,280 --> 01:11:12,639
Speaker 16: last month made our position in the fact very clear,

1404
01:11:13,000 --> 01:11:15,200
Speaker 16: and that's really that this is about one thing and

1405
01:11:15,200 --> 01:11:18,639
Speaker 16: one thing only, and that's retaliating against us for taking

1406
01:11:18,640 --> 01:11:23,680
Speaker 16: a position about pending legislation. And we believed that in

1407
01:11:23,800 --> 01:11:26,720
Speaker 16: us taking that position, we are merely exercising our right

1408
01:11:27,200 --> 01:11:28,000
Speaker 16: to free speech.

1409
01:11:28,200 --> 01:11:32,040
Speaker 2: He talked about the special districts. Reedy Creek was not

1410
01:11:32,080 --> 01:11:34,920
Speaker 2: the only There were many that helped to create the

1411
01:11:34,960 --> 01:11:37,880
Speaker 2: economy and certainly the tourism economy in Florida in the

1412
01:11:37,880 --> 01:11:40,920
Speaker 2: case of Disney. And he brought it down to one

1413
01:11:40,960 --> 01:11:41,719
Speaker 2: final question.

1414
01:11:41,800 --> 01:11:44,200
Speaker 16: So I'm going to finish what is obviously kind of

1415
01:11:44,200 --> 01:11:47,400
Speaker 16: a long answer by asking one question, does the state

1416
01:11:47,479 --> 01:11:50,639
Speaker 16: want us to invest more, employ more people, and pay

1417
01:11:50,680 --> 01:11:51,960
Speaker 16: more taxes or not?

1418
01:11:53,680 --> 01:11:56,800
Speaker 8: I mean, it's a great question for the state, yes,

1419
01:11:56,960 --> 01:11:59,920
Speaker 8: but also for is that what voters in Florida want?

1420
01:12:00,320 --> 01:12:04,599
Speaker 8: Is that what DeSantis' constituents, the people he serves as governor,

1421
01:12:04,640 --> 01:12:05,320
Speaker 8: also wants.

1422
01:12:05,200 --> 01:12:06,679
Speaker 2: Seventy five thousand of whom worked.

1423
01:12:06,479 --> 01:12:08,840
Speaker 8: For Disney exactly. And then of course there's just the

1424
01:12:08,960 --> 01:12:12,000
Speaker 8: question of how the optics of this battle between a

1425
01:12:12,080 --> 01:12:15,960
Speaker 8: corporate giant and a governor who in all likelihood is

1426
01:12:16,000 --> 01:12:18,760
Speaker 8: going to seek the Republican nomination for the presidency would

1427
01:12:18,760 --> 01:12:22,439
Speaker 8: play out in primary politics, in general election politics as well.

1428
01:12:22,680 --> 01:12:26,559
Speaker 2: Bloomberg Nancy Cook has been writing about this, and I'm

1429
01:12:26,560 --> 01:12:29,240
Speaker 2: deeply curious having actually finally heard Nancy. Great to see you,

1430
01:12:29,240 --> 01:12:30,960
Speaker 2: by the way, Thank you for always joining us Bob

1431
01:12:31,000 --> 01:12:34,080
Speaker 2: Eiger last night. Does this change the story? Does this

1432
01:12:34,200 --> 01:12:37,280
Speaker 2: leave Ron DeSantis on his heels or embolden him?

1433
01:12:37,800 --> 01:12:40,240
Speaker 14: Well, I think he's on his heels right now, and

1434
01:12:40,280 --> 01:12:42,320
Speaker 14: this is just sort of another data point of him

1435
01:12:42,360 --> 01:12:45,559
Speaker 14: being on his heels. We've seen a real decline in

1436
01:12:45,720 --> 01:12:48,040
Speaker 14: polling for him over the last few months. I feel

1437
01:12:48,040 --> 01:12:50,479
Speaker 14: like in January, people that I talked to in the

1438
01:12:50,479 --> 01:12:54,759
Speaker 14: Republican Party and donors were very very high on him

1439
01:12:54,920 --> 01:12:57,920
Speaker 14: as the person who could potentially take on and beat Trump,

1440
01:12:58,160 --> 01:13:02,000
Speaker 14: also potentially beat Biden. But he really has fallen in

1441
01:13:02,040 --> 01:13:05,719
Speaker 14: the polls. You know, donors, we had a big story

1442
01:13:05,760 --> 01:13:09,320
Speaker 14: on whatever day it is, I'm getting conviewsed. It's been

1443
01:13:09,360 --> 01:13:11,600
Speaker 14: such a busy week. But Steve Schwartzman, the CEO of

1444
01:13:11,640 --> 01:13:14,320
Speaker 14: Blackstone went to tell it, has he recently to meet

1445
01:13:14,360 --> 01:13:17,400
Speaker 14: with Ron DeSantis and walked away feeling like he's going

1446
01:13:17,439 --> 01:13:19,760
Speaker 14: to hold his powder dry in terms of money for now.

1447
01:13:19,840 --> 01:13:22,920
Speaker 14: He wasn't totally impressed. So Desanders is sort of on

1448
01:13:23,000 --> 01:13:26,719
Speaker 14: the defensive, and this just really adds to it. It's like, Okay,

1449
01:13:26,760 --> 01:13:29,000
Speaker 14: he's about to run for president. He's going to announce,

1450
01:13:29,080 --> 01:13:33,120
Speaker 14: you know, late May, early June, and sort of consuming

1451
01:13:33,120 --> 01:13:36,360
Speaker 14: his attention is this huge fight with Disney and Bob Iyker,

1452
01:13:36,360 --> 01:13:38,720
Speaker 14: a sort of really saying I'm not going to back down.

1453
01:13:39,479 --> 01:13:41,840
Speaker 8: Well, you say he's getting set to announce really in

1454
01:13:41,880 --> 01:13:44,240
Speaker 8: the near term here, is there anything that could happen

1455
01:13:44,320 --> 01:13:47,240
Speaker 8: with this fight or the other dynamics at play that

1456
01:13:47,280 --> 01:13:50,280
Speaker 8: will change that. Is there any remote possibility that he

1457
01:13:50,360 --> 01:13:51,360
Speaker 8: decides not to run.

1458
01:13:51,680 --> 01:13:54,080
Speaker 14: No, one hundred percent. No, he is going to run.

1459
01:13:54,120 --> 01:13:56,519
Speaker 14: He is moving ahead. I mean you have to remember,

1460
01:13:57,160 --> 01:14:00,439
Speaker 14: amid the backdrop of the polling and Disney fight. Also,

1461
01:14:00,760 --> 01:14:03,160
Speaker 14: the former president Donald Trump has spent the last three

1462
01:14:03,200 --> 01:14:06,679
Speaker 14: months really trying to define DeSantis, going after his record

1463
01:14:06,680 --> 01:14:09,759
Speaker 14: in Congress, his record in Florida, like really just attacking

1464
01:14:09,800 --> 01:14:13,599
Speaker 14: him NonStop, teach right, and trying to weaken him before

1465
01:14:13,640 --> 01:14:16,320
Speaker 14: he can even announce, and so DeSantis is really facing

1466
01:14:16,360 --> 01:14:19,600
Speaker 14: all these headwinds. We're expecting him to announce, you know,

1467
01:14:19,680 --> 01:14:24,080
Speaker 14: around June one in Florida, in his hometown, and these

1468
01:14:24,080 --> 01:14:25,479
Speaker 14: are going to be things that he's going to have

1469
01:14:25,479 --> 01:14:26,240
Speaker 14: to play catch up on.

1470
01:14:26,400 --> 01:14:28,679
Speaker 2: Wow, kayleie, imagine this. That's only a couple of whiles.

1471
01:14:28,760 --> 01:14:29,880
Speaker 2: It might be dead ceiling.

1472
01:14:30,000 --> 01:14:32,639
Speaker 8: I was going to say another X stage for it.

1473
01:14:32,640 --> 01:14:37,360
Speaker 2: Is everything on the first of June. But wow, why wait,

1474
01:14:37,680 --> 01:14:41,040
Speaker 2: he's he's he's being assaulted in the media on a

1475
01:14:41,120 --> 01:14:42,559
Speaker 2: daily basis by Donald Trump.

1476
01:14:42,920 --> 01:14:45,800
Speaker 14: Well, I think that part of what I have learned

1477
01:14:45,800 --> 01:14:48,240
Speaker 14: about the Dsantis world in the past like four to

1478
01:14:48,280 --> 01:14:50,439
Speaker 14: five months, let's say, when I started covering him, is

1479
01:14:50,920 --> 01:14:54,240
Speaker 14: that DeSantis is a very cerebral guy and the people

1480
01:14:54,280 --> 01:14:56,840
Speaker 14: around him as a tiny circle of advisors. And I

1481
01:14:56,880 --> 01:14:59,879
Speaker 14: think that they made this plan after he won reelection

1482
01:15:00,200 --> 01:15:03,040
Speaker 14: that he was going to run for president, and they thought, Okay,

1483
01:15:03,040 --> 01:15:04,680
Speaker 14: he's going to write a memoir and then he's going

1484
01:15:04,720 --> 01:15:07,240
Speaker 14: to go around the early States. And they are not

1485
01:15:08,680 --> 01:15:12,720
Speaker 14: really improvisational people, and so they have always insisted on

1486
01:15:12,800 --> 01:15:15,439
Speaker 14: sticking with the plan. You can argue if that's good

1487
01:15:15,520 --> 01:15:17,800
Speaker 14: or bad, but they have not sort of deviated from

1488
01:15:17,800 --> 01:15:19,680
Speaker 14: the plan. But they also haven't really been able to

1489
01:15:19,720 --> 01:15:21,280
Speaker 14: pivot when these things have gone wrong.

1490
01:15:21,800 --> 01:15:24,000
Speaker 8: Well, and of course, as we're talking about deviating from

1491
01:15:24,040 --> 01:15:25,559
Speaker 8: the plan or from the script, we know that this

1492
01:15:25,680 --> 01:15:29,080
Speaker 8: is something that his obvious opponent, former President Trump, does

1493
01:15:29,120 --> 01:15:31,960
Speaker 8: a lot. Obviously, we've talked at length in the last

1494
01:15:31,960 --> 01:15:34,800
Speaker 8: twenty four hours about the town hall on CNN last

1495
01:15:34,840 --> 01:15:38,559
Speaker 8: night in which President Trump, former President Trump lied in

1496
01:15:38,600 --> 01:15:41,760
Speaker 8: many instances on a variety of different issues. It's one

1497
01:15:41,760 --> 01:15:43,600
Speaker 8: thing to talk about the media coverage of that, but

1498
01:15:43,680 --> 01:15:46,879
Speaker 8: also how do you campaign against that in a primary?

1499
01:15:47,040 --> 01:15:49,839
Speaker 14: It's really hard. And I think that the DeSantis plan

1500
01:15:50,360 --> 01:15:53,040
Speaker 14: right now is to sort of not get into a

1501
01:15:53,120 --> 01:15:55,880
Speaker 14: daily tip for tat with Trump because they don't see

1502
01:15:55,880 --> 01:15:57,559
Speaker 14: that as a winning thing that worked out well for

1503
01:15:57,600 --> 01:16:00,599
Speaker 14: Ted Cruz or Marco Ruby or Jeb Bush goes on

1504
01:16:00,760 --> 01:16:02,640
Speaker 14: very true. What they're going to try to do is

1505
01:16:02,680 --> 01:16:06,680
Speaker 14: focus on DeSantis's record in Florida, like on the economy,

1506
01:16:06,760 --> 01:16:11,880
Speaker 14: how he handled COVID nineteen restrictions, immigration education, and really

1507
01:16:11,880 --> 01:16:14,160
Speaker 14: sort of try to play that up and paint that

1508
01:16:14,200 --> 01:16:17,360
Speaker 14: as sort of a more you know, a message of

1509
01:16:17,520 --> 01:16:20,439
Speaker 14: like moving forward, like Trump was a great president, but

1510
01:16:20,640 --> 01:16:22,960
Speaker 14: you know DeSantis is the next leader and sort of

1511
01:16:22,960 --> 01:16:23,800
Speaker 14: position him that way.

1512
01:16:23,960 --> 01:16:25,400
Speaker 2: Is there a thought, I don't mean to be giving

1513
01:16:25,439 --> 01:16:28,240
Speaker 2: too much credit if that's the case, but that you

1514
01:16:28,439 --> 01:16:32,040
Speaker 2: kind of let Donald Trump exhaust himself, you know, like

1515
01:16:32,080 --> 01:16:34,400
Speaker 2: a boxer. Just let him keep swinging it. Get a

1516
01:16:34,400 --> 01:16:38,559
Speaker 2: couple of hours into this fight, and then you know,

1517
01:16:38,760 --> 01:16:42,679
Speaker 2: Ron DeSantis emerges. People have heard the attacks already. It's exhausting,

1518
01:16:42,720 --> 01:16:44,200
Speaker 2: all right, now, let's talk about policy.

1519
01:16:44,360 --> 01:16:46,360
Speaker 14: I think that's part of it. The other thing is

1520
01:16:46,400 --> 01:16:50,360
Speaker 14: that DeSantis has been hosting these dinners the past two

1521
01:16:50,400 --> 01:16:53,680
Speaker 14: weeks in Tallahassee at the governor's mansion for donors and

1522
01:16:53,720 --> 01:16:56,439
Speaker 14: people who raise money. And part of the argument that

1523
01:16:56,520 --> 01:16:59,240
Speaker 14: he's been making to them is that I have a

1524
01:16:59,240 --> 01:17:01,960
Speaker 14: story of coming out about this later tonight or tomorrow.

1525
01:17:02,320 --> 01:17:05,719
Speaker 14: That Donald Trump has this real lock on thirty percent

1526
01:17:05,800 --> 01:17:09,320
Speaker 14: of the Republican primary voters, but that still leave seventy percent.

1527
01:17:09,600 --> 01:17:12,200
Speaker 14: And that's seventy percent is comprised of people who like

1528
01:17:12,320 --> 01:17:15,160
Speaker 14: Trump but don't really want to see him run again.

1529
01:17:15,240 --> 01:17:17,800
Speaker 14: They're kind of exhausted by him, to your point, and

1530
01:17:17,840 --> 01:17:20,200
Speaker 14: then people who never wanted Trump to run in the

1531
01:17:20,200 --> 01:17:23,439
Speaker 14: first place, and the DeSantis camp feels like, you know,

1532
01:17:23,439 --> 01:17:27,040
Speaker 14: if you combine those parts, that's really seventy percent of

1533
01:17:27,160 --> 01:17:30,000
Speaker 14: GOP voters, and they're making the argument to donors at

1534
01:17:30,080 --> 01:17:32,479
Speaker 14: least that that seventy percent is up for grabs.

1535
01:17:33,400 --> 01:17:36,200
Speaker 2: Nancy, always a pleasure. Thanks for the insights, Nancy Cook.

1536
01:17:36,680 --> 01:17:38,240
Speaker 2: I want to call you a White House reporter? What

1537
01:17:38,280 --> 01:17:40,320
Speaker 2: are you national politics reporting?

1538
01:17:40,479 --> 01:17:40,559
Speaker 11: Me?

1539
01:17:41,680 --> 01:17:44,759
Speaker 2: Did I get it right? Excellent national politics reporter? Nancy

1540
01:17:44,760 --> 01:17:46,920
Speaker 2: Cook nailed it. If I had said CEO, she would

1541
01:17:46,960 --> 01:17:54,679
Speaker 2: have said, yes, that's right. Thanks Nancy. As always, thanks

1542
01:17:54,680 --> 01:17:56,840
Speaker 2: for listening to the Sound On podcast. Make sure to

1543
01:17:56,840 --> 01:18:00,000
Speaker 2: subscribe if you haven't already, at Apple, Spotify, and anywhere

1544
01:18:00,080 --> 01:18:02,439
Speaker 2: else you get your podcasts, and you can find us

1545
01:18:02,479 --> 01:18:05,360
Speaker 2: live every weekday from Washington, d C. At one pm

1546
01:18:05,439 --> 01:18:09,040
Speaker 2: Eastern Time at Bloomberg dot com.