1
00:00:01,720 --> 00:00:04,680
Speaker 1: Cool Zone Media.

2
00:00:04,880 --> 00:00:07,000
Speaker 2: Hello, and welcome to cool People who did cool stuff.

3
00:00:07,080 --> 00:00:10,119
Speaker 2: You're twice a week. I'm remembering to say twice a

4
00:00:10,160 --> 00:00:12,600
Speaker 2: week because it happens twice a week this podcast. You

5
00:00:12,640 --> 00:00:15,880
Speaker 2: are twice a week reminder that when bad things happen,

6
00:00:16,079 --> 00:00:18,759
Speaker 2: there's people willing to burn entire cities to the ground.

7
00:00:19,280 --> 00:00:23,400
Speaker 2: In response, I am your host, Margaret Kiljoy, and this

8
00:00:23,480 --> 00:00:26,400
Speaker 2: week my guest is Io.

9
00:00:26,720 --> 00:00:30,280
Speaker 3: Hi, Io, what's up. It's me the Two Timers Club.

10
00:00:30,560 --> 00:00:31,080
Speaker 3: Let's go.

11
00:00:33,320 --> 00:00:36,680
Speaker 2: Io was actually the first ever guest on this podcast,

12
00:00:36,880 --> 00:00:39,440
Speaker 2: not the guest on episode one, but the first person

13
00:00:39,520 --> 00:00:40,919
Speaker 2: I ever recorded this podcast.

14
00:00:41,000 --> 00:00:44,440
Speaker 1: Oh fuck, I was you were scared shitless, Magpie. It

15
00:00:44,520 --> 00:00:44,800
Speaker 1: was great.

16
00:00:44,880 --> 00:00:47,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, nobs was cooling.

17
00:00:47,120 --> 00:00:48,720
Speaker 2: If you want to go back in here. It was

18
00:00:48,760 --> 00:00:51,839
Speaker 2: the episode about the Russian Nihilists. The script was like

19
00:00:52,520 --> 00:00:56,600
Speaker 2: two or three times longer than it needed to be exactly.

20
00:00:56,720 --> 00:00:58,800
Speaker 2: I think I just talked fast the whole time.

21
00:01:00,120 --> 00:01:03,920
Speaker 3: Great time, me too, Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's fun. I

22
00:01:03,960 --> 00:01:06,280
Speaker 3: had to play like I didn't already know about the

23
00:01:06,319 --> 00:01:10,040
Speaker 3: Russian Nihilists, but I did learn many important details that

24
00:01:10,080 --> 00:01:12,880
Speaker 3: have stuck with me. One they braid fuses into their hair.

25
00:01:13,440 --> 00:01:14,200
Speaker 3: Pretty ballin'.

26
00:01:14,360 --> 00:01:14,760
Speaker 2: Oh shit.

27
00:01:14,800 --> 00:01:17,120
Speaker 3: I forgot about that, have gotten that going for my

28
00:01:17,160 --> 00:01:19,440
Speaker 3: own fashion sense, and I recommend everyone else due to

29
00:01:19,640 --> 00:01:21,039
Speaker 3: twenty twenty six is coming up.

30
00:01:21,480 --> 00:01:23,000
Speaker 1: Slay slay.

31
00:01:23,840 --> 00:01:25,880
Speaker 2: Also, the other voice that you're hearing is our producer,

32
00:01:25,920 --> 00:01:31,479
Speaker 2: Sophie Hi Sophie Hi Ragpie. Our audio engineer is Eva

33
00:01:31,600 --> 00:01:35,160
Speaker 2: Hi Eva Hi Eva. Our theme musical was written forced

34
00:01:35,160 --> 00:01:38,240
Speaker 2: by Unwoman and Io. This is why I picked you

35
00:01:38,240 --> 00:01:41,200
Speaker 2: as the guest. Have you ever thought about how fun

36
00:01:41,200 --> 00:01:45,320
Speaker 2: it would be to burn London to the ground as

37
00:01:45,319 --> 00:01:48,640
Speaker 2: some part of a big anti colonial revolt? Is this

38
00:01:48,680 --> 00:01:49,840
Speaker 2: something you've ever considered?

39
00:01:50,280 --> 00:01:54,320
Speaker 3: Only every waking minute of my life. As I take

40
00:01:54,360 --> 00:01:57,560
Speaker 3: a sip from a little gag for Sophie and Margaret,

41
00:01:57,600 --> 00:01:59,400
Speaker 3: I didn't know that this was happening, but I am

42
00:01:59,480 --> 00:02:04,480
Speaker 3: drinking out of an Ira mug that I got in Belfast.

43
00:02:04,520 --> 00:02:07,560
Speaker 3: You can see the little beautiful provo right there. I

44
00:02:07,560 --> 00:02:09,320
Speaker 3: don't know if that's what this is about, but yeah,

45
00:02:09,320 --> 00:02:13,120
Speaker 3: fuck London, so save Paddington and Salty Earth.

46
00:02:13,800 --> 00:02:16,760
Speaker 2: What I always figured, I have the theme music already

47
00:02:16,760 --> 00:02:19,200
Speaker 2: picked out. When all of the people come together and

48
00:02:19,240 --> 00:02:22,160
Speaker 2: burn London to the ground, they should be singing England

49
00:02:22,200 --> 00:02:25,960
Speaker 2: Belongs to Me by cockspar That's my theory, especially if

50
00:02:25,960 --> 00:02:29,080
Speaker 2: it's all the people from like you know, the places

51
00:02:29,080 --> 00:02:30,480
Speaker 2: that England is colonized.

52
00:02:30,960 --> 00:02:33,480
Speaker 3: Oh, I would love that. We're all screaming whose streets,

53
00:02:33,560 --> 00:02:36,920
Speaker 3: no streets? Tear up the concrete kit just dragging that

54
00:02:37,000 --> 00:02:39,320
Speaker 3: Winston Church Hill statue through the ground. Sorry, go on

55
00:02:39,360 --> 00:02:40,079
Speaker 3: with your eyes.

56
00:02:40,320 --> 00:02:43,720
Speaker 2: So what if I were to tell you that this

57
00:02:43,880 --> 00:02:49,120
Speaker 2: happened once that, possibly without killing anyone, or possibly killing

58
00:02:49,160 --> 00:02:53,760
Speaker 2: seventy thousand people, an anti colonial army, possibly more than

59
00:02:53,800 --> 00:02:56,560
Speaker 2: half women, burned London to the ground.

60
00:02:58,480 --> 00:03:01,240
Speaker 3: I think I know what the Yeah, let's go. What

61
00:03:01,360 --> 00:03:02,920
Speaker 3: if you told me that? Tell me it?

62
00:03:03,560 --> 00:03:05,880
Speaker 2: And what if I told you that the woman who

63
00:03:05,880 --> 00:03:08,280
Speaker 2: did this is held up to this day as a

64
00:03:08,320 --> 00:03:09,400
Speaker 2: British hero.

65
00:03:10,440 --> 00:03:14,359
Speaker 3: That would be quite peculiar. How did she get there? Margaret?

66
00:03:15,120 --> 00:03:22,200
Speaker 2: Well, this week we are talking about Boudica, queen of

67
00:03:22,200 --> 00:03:25,280
Speaker 2: the ic nine, people who were either a tribe or

68
00:03:25,360 --> 00:03:27,799
Speaker 2: a state depending on which historia, and you're asking how

69
00:03:27,840 --> 00:03:29,680
Speaker 2: they feel about the Celts.

70
00:03:30,000 --> 00:03:32,160
Speaker 3: Oh fuck, I told you to give me a good one,

71
00:03:32,200 --> 00:03:37,080
Speaker 3: and you've outdone yourself. I'm so jozz. I was like, oh,

72
00:03:37,160 --> 00:03:40,280
Speaker 3: maybe we'll get like you know, Bill watersaying, oh, that'd

73
00:03:40,320 --> 00:03:43,040
Speaker 3: be fun. Yeah, what a treat you prepare for me, Margaret.

74
00:03:43,840 --> 00:03:46,520
Speaker 2: Also, I thought it'd be really funny to have you

75
00:03:46,600 --> 00:03:50,880
Speaker 2: on to talk about a British patriotic hero, because she

76
00:03:51,040 --> 00:03:54,400
Speaker 2: is absolutely a British patriotic hero in the modern sense.

77
00:03:54,640 --> 00:03:56,920
Speaker 2: But it's for burning London to the ground as part

78
00:03:56,920 --> 00:03:59,120
Speaker 2: of an anti colonial revolt, so you can't go wrong.

79
00:03:59,320 --> 00:04:00,800
Speaker 3: It is going to tear me in so many directions.

80
00:04:00,880 --> 00:04:04,320
Speaker 2: Absolutely, we are going to talk about a revolt that

81
00:04:04,480 --> 00:04:08,600
Speaker 2: almost ended Roman colonization of Britain hundreds of years early,

82
00:04:09,280 --> 00:04:12,760
Speaker 2: a revolt that quite possibly really kind of as part

83
00:04:12,760 --> 00:04:14,840
Speaker 2: of a larger series of revolts, but this is sort

84
00:04:14,880 --> 00:04:19,039
Speaker 2: of the biggest one. It stopped the Romans from encroaching

85
00:04:19,080 --> 00:04:22,560
Speaker 2: on Scotland and Ireland because they were so busy dealing

86
00:04:22,600 --> 00:04:27,560
Speaker 2: with local revolts. It's a revolt that ultimately failed, but

87
00:04:27,680 --> 00:04:30,680
Speaker 2: it might have just convinced the Empire that the juice

88
00:04:30,760 --> 00:04:34,800
Speaker 2: was not worth the squeeze. And I'm going to go

89
00:04:34,880 --> 00:04:36,960
Speaker 2: pretty far out on a limb here, but I'm going

90
00:04:37,040 --> 00:04:39,680
Speaker 2: to say that it's possible, therefore, that the reason that

91
00:04:39,760 --> 00:04:42,279
Speaker 2: we have any remnants of Celtic culture and language in

92
00:04:42,279 --> 00:04:46,360
Speaker 2: Scotland and Ireland today is because of a few hundred

93
00:04:46,360 --> 00:04:49,440
Speaker 2: thousand best friends who set a shit ton of stuff

94
00:04:49,480 --> 00:04:52,760
Speaker 2: on fire and paid with their lives in the year

95
00:04:53,240 --> 00:04:58,440
Speaker 2: sixty one AD. This is a stretch because the Icni

96
00:04:58,560 --> 00:05:01,240
Speaker 2: Revolt was far from the only vault against Roman rule,

97
00:05:01,880 --> 00:05:05,200
Speaker 2: but it's kind of the biggest, and more importantly, it's

98
00:05:05,240 --> 00:05:07,599
Speaker 2: the one we're going to talk about this week. And also,

99
00:05:08,240 --> 00:05:10,839
Speaker 2: I'm going to reveal some gender shit at the very end,

100
00:05:10,960 --> 00:05:13,240
Speaker 2: not even in this episode, but the end of next episode.

101
00:05:13,240 --> 00:05:16,160
Speaker 2: But we'll get to that. That's my teaser. I'm going

102
00:05:16,200 --> 00:05:17,839
Speaker 2: to go even further out on a limb a little

103
00:05:17,839 --> 00:05:18,240
Speaker 2: bit later.

104
00:05:18,760 --> 00:05:20,039
Speaker 3: You're adding a neo pronoun.

105
00:05:20,160 --> 00:05:28,919
Speaker 2: Finally, I used a neo pronoun in fiction for the

106
00:05:28,920 --> 00:05:30,440
Speaker 2: first time last week.

107
00:05:30,680 --> 00:05:32,000
Speaker 3: Oh how did it work out for you?

108
00:05:32,160 --> 00:05:34,000
Speaker 2: It's in a story that you're in. It's the we

109
00:05:34,040 --> 00:05:37,520
Speaker 2: did I for anyone who's listening, joined us on a

110
00:05:37,520 --> 00:05:40,560
Speaker 2: path Finder adventure and I wrote a little prequel story

111
00:05:40,600 --> 00:05:43,560
Speaker 2: and I throw in a line that has he sheve

112
00:05:43,800 --> 00:05:47,159
Speaker 2: or zer. But I actually don't know what the pronouns

113
00:05:47,240 --> 00:05:50,120
Speaker 2: and the gendered language of the Celtic people were like,

114
00:05:50,960 --> 00:05:54,000
Speaker 2: but I do know that the story I'm talking about

115
00:05:54,120 --> 00:05:58,280
Speaker 2: happened two thousand years ago, and the Celts didn't really

116
00:05:58,320 --> 00:06:01,120
Speaker 2: do much for writing shit down, not for a couple

117
00:06:01,240 --> 00:06:04,600
Speaker 2: hundred years more so, and so our sources on this

118
00:06:04,680 --> 00:06:08,839
Speaker 2: revolt are, to say the least spotty. There's a short

119
00:06:08,920 --> 00:06:11,520
Speaker 2: version of the story written down by a Roman historian

120
00:06:11,600 --> 00:06:15,400
Speaker 2: named Tacitus, who was writing imperial propaganda, but was at

121
00:06:15,480 --> 00:06:19,560
Speaker 2: least alive during the events in question. His father was

122
00:06:19,680 --> 00:06:21,520
Speaker 2: much more heavily involved, and so he at least kind

123
00:06:21,520 --> 00:06:25,080
Speaker 2: of heard its second hand, right. And then there's a

124
00:06:25,080 --> 00:06:29,040
Speaker 2: slightly longer version written by another Well, I wrote Roman

125
00:06:29,080 --> 00:06:31,920
Speaker 2: into the script, but he was actually Greek, whose prejudices

126
00:06:31,960 --> 00:06:35,599
Speaker 2: are even more obvious, one hundred and fifty years after

127
00:06:35,640 --> 00:06:41,159
Speaker 2: the events. And his name was Cassius Dio. No relation

128
00:06:41,279 --> 00:06:41,560
Speaker 2: to the.

129
00:06:41,560 --> 00:06:42,440
Speaker 3: Rock Garden role.

130
00:06:42,680 --> 00:06:45,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, no, yeah, well, actually there might be a relationship.

131
00:06:45,760 --> 00:06:49,520
Speaker 2: I haven't asked doo where Dio got their name.

132
00:06:50,200 --> 00:06:51,960
Speaker 3: Nobody can ask it any more. Rest in peace.

133
00:06:53,160 --> 00:06:57,080
Speaker 2: We don't have Dio, Cassius or otherwise. We don't have

134
00:06:57,800 --> 00:07:01,000
Speaker 2: Cassius Dio's original writing on this revolt that came one

135
00:07:01,080 --> 00:07:03,720
Speaker 2: hundred and fifty years later. We have a rewrite by

136
00:07:03,760 --> 00:07:07,000
Speaker 2: a Christian monk writing a thousand years later. So these

137
00:07:07,120 --> 00:07:11,600
Speaker 2: like two thousand words or so that were written about

138
00:07:11,600 --> 00:07:17,080
Speaker 2: this revolt are the basis of like endless legends and

139
00:07:17,240 --> 00:07:22,080
Speaker 2: conceptions of the British people before colonization, and like history

140
00:07:22,160 --> 00:07:24,720
Speaker 2: is really funny. We actually don't know anything.

141
00:07:25,040 --> 00:07:27,840
Speaker 3: It's all written by the worst people who are willing

142
00:07:27,920 --> 00:07:32,760
Speaker 3: to do usually the most heinous thing possible to get

143
00:07:33,280 --> 00:07:35,080
Speaker 3: what they wanted, which was to write a bunch of

144
00:07:35,120 --> 00:07:38,520
Speaker 3: books nerds. But you know, I really respect When I

145
00:07:38,560 --> 00:07:41,360
Speaker 3: was just in Ireland, I went into owen Gat Cave

146
00:07:41,400 --> 00:07:46,560
Speaker 3: and there's an old Irish written language pre Latin alphabet.

147
00:07:46,800 --> 00:07:48,920
Speaker 2: Oh okay, yeah, yeah, Roman alphabet.

148
00:07:48,960 --> 00:07:53,000
Speaker 3: Okay, no, no, it's just like a line with diagonal

149
00:07:53,280 --> 00:07:57,680
Speaker 3: oh slashes across it. Yeah yeah, Ohm is above the

150
00:07:57,720 --> 00:08:00,240
Speaker 3: cave there, and I was just thinking, like that's so

151
00:08:00,360 --> 00:08:03,520
Speaker 3: cool that they were like, no, we're in oral culture.

152
00:08:03,600 --> 00:08:05,240
Speaker 3: Every once in a while will be like, oh, this

153
00:08:05,280 --> 00:08:08,560
Speaker 3: is where Queen Mayve was born or whatever. But like

154
00:08:08,680 --> 00:08:12,280
Speaker 3: that's ballin'. That's cool to not think of time in

155
00:08:12,320 --> 00:08:14,360
Speaker 3: that way and just like, oh, I need to be remembered,

156
00:08:14,560 --> 00:08:17,600
Speaker 3: like all these fucking narcissists needed to but ugh, Now

157
00:08:17,600 --> 00:08:19,640
Speaker 3: I listen to hardcore history, and I got to hear

158
00:08:19,680 --> 00:08:22,960
Speaker 3: this guy telling me Julius Caesar's take on stuff.

159
00:08:23,160 --> 00:08:23,720
Speaker 2: Uh huh.

160
00:08:23,760 --> 00:08:26,120
Speaker 3: I want to hear from the Libraians. They get out

161
00:08:26,200 --> 00:08:27,600
Speaker 3: fucking hang, they could party.

162
00:08:27,680 --> 00:08:29,920
Speaker 2: We're gonna hear from some Julius Caesar today.

163
00:08:29,840 --> 00:08:31,360
Speaker 3: So always getting his fingers instead.

164
00:08:31,400 --> 00:08:32,839
Speaker 2: We're stuck with it because the ore the people who

165
00:08:32,840 --> 00:08:35,880
Speaker 2: wrote things down, and the Irish ogum actually wasn't invented

166
00:08:35,960 --> 00:08:38,960
Speaker 2: until hundreds of years later either, right, which actually makes

167
00:08:39,000 --> 00:08:42,560
Speaker 2: Irish one of the earlier written languages in Europe. But

168
00:08:42,679 --> 00:08:45,400
Speaker 2: you're still talking about I don't have this in front

169
00:08:45,440 --> 00:08:47,440
Speaker 2: of me. You're still talking about like six hundred ish

170
00:08:47,520 --> 00:08:50,040
Speaker 2: or maybe four hundred ish AD. So we have the

171
00:08:50,120 --> 00:08:53,000
Speaker 2: Roman Apology, it's like the main stuff we have. It

172
00:08:53,040 --> 00:08:55,640
Speaker 2: turns out writing shit down the main way for people

173
00:08:55,679 --> 00:08:58,400
Speaker 2: two thousand years later to know about you, who could

174
00:08:58,400 --> 00:08:59,439
Speaker 2: have fucking guessed.

175
00:08:59,320 --> 00:09:01,040
Speaker 3: Can't word of your way through that far?

176
00:09:01,720 --> 00:09:04,360
Speaker 2: Well, But it's funny as they probably could have managed.

177
00:09:04,559 --> 00:09:06,360
Speaker 3: I mean, that's how we got the freakin' Odyssey.

178
00:09:06,600 --> 00:09:08,440
Speaker 2: If Julius these are hadn't like showed up and killed

179
00:09:08,440 --> 00:09:11,520
Speaker 2: all of them, like ended the Druidic reign of gall

180
00:09:11,960 --> 00:09:14,200
Speaker 2: you know, because they actually had a pretty good like

181
00:09:14,240 --> 00:09:15,800
Speaker 2: you had to go for twenty years to be a

182
00:09:15,840 --> 00:09:18,240
Speaker 2: druid to learn this oral shit, and so they're probably

183
00:09:18,240 --> 00:09:22,040
Speaker 2: passing things down pretty well for hundreds or thousands of years.

184
00:09:23,000 --> 00:09:25,439
Speaker 2: And then that only works if no one comes and

185
00:09:25,520 --> 00:09:28,360
Speaker 2: kills you well before you can pass on your Jedi

186
00:09:28,440 --> 00:09:29,480
Speaker 2: information or whatever.

187
00:09:30,000 --> 00:09:31,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, when you get Julius on the scene.

188
00:09:32,320 --> 00:09:38,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, But even the Roman Apologia is a good story

189
00:09:38,720 --> 00:09:42,280
Speaker 2: because it kind of bluntly talks about how evil Rome

190
00:09:42,400 --> 00:09:47,760
Speaker 2: is because they didn't consider what they were doing evil, right,

191
00:09:47,800 --> 00:09:50,040
Speaker 2: They're like, well, of course, like the only thing we

192
00:09:50,080 --> 00:09:52,480
Speaker 2: could get out of that country is like ten and slaves,

193
00:09:53,040 --> 00:09:53,240
Speaker 2: you know.

194
00:09:53,920 --> 00:09:57,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, they are subject to our morality when we're thinking

195
00:09:57,640 --> 00:10:01,640
Speaker 3: of them now. And also Rome specifically was a bunch

196
00:10:01,679 --> 00:10:06,000
Speaker 3: of catty bitches who would always be talking shit about

197
00:10:06,040 --> 00:10:08,800
Speaker 3: their fellow senators, their fellow whoever's.

198
00:10:08,480 --> 00:10:11,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, so some of the best shit talk I have

199
00:10:11,679 --> 00:10:16,400
Speaker 2: ever read, wildly transphobic and homophobic shit talk from Rome.

200
00:10:16,840 --> 00:10:18,480
Speaker 2: I'm going to get to in part two of this.

201
00:10:19,080 --> 00:10:21,200
Speaker 3: Oh, I can't wait to do a deep dive into

202
00:10:21,320 --> 00:10:22,360
Speaker 3: Roman transphobia.

203
00:10:22,400 --> 00:10:26,199
Speaker 2: It's like new take on transphobia. New transphobia just dropped

204
00:10:26,200 --> 00:10:27,240
Speaker 2: two thousand years ago.

205
00:10:27,600 --> 00:10:28,880
Speaker 3: They were really innovating.

206
00:10:29,400 --> 00:10:34,440
Speaker 2: Absolutely, so. I also think that learning these stories as

207
00:10:34,520 --> 00:10:37,080
Speaker 2: was presented by the Romans and then archaeologists trying to

208
00:10:37,080 --> 00:10:39,840
Speaker 2: figure out what we can't we I'm not a fucking archaeologist,

209
00:10:39,840 --> 00:10:42,760
Speaker 2: I'm a pop historian, but people trying to figure out

210
00:10:42,760 --> 00:10:45,240
Speaker 2: what they can has all this use, and I think

211
00:10:45,280 --> 00:10:48,360
Speaker 2: it gives an interesting perspective on the sort of original

212
00:10:48,400 --> 00:10:51,760
Speaker 2: colonization that seems to feed into so much later colonization.

213
00:10:52,200 --> 00:10:56,160
Speaker 2: I read one hot take that was basically just like, yeah,

214
00:10:56,160 --> 00:10:58,920
Speaker 2: the British loved being colonized and treated so badly that

215
00:10:58,960 --> 00:11:00,560
Speaker 2: they decided that that's what they are going to do

216
00:11:00,600 --> 00:11:03,040
Speaker 2: the rest of the world, which is never a pattern

217
00:11:03,080 --> 00:11:04,439
Speaker 2: that anyone has ever seen before.

218
00:11:04,679 --> 00:11:06,240
Speaker 3: Look, hurt people, hurt people.

219
00:11:06,920 --> 00:11:10,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, and so that's what we're talking about. But first

220
00:11:11,840 --> 00:11:13,280
Speaker 2: you all don't know whether I'm about to pitch to

221
00:11:13,280 --> 00:11:16,120
Speaker 2: ads or context. Context.

222
00:11:16,760 --> 00:11:19,400
Speaker 3: Oh okay, I thought we were going to go to

223
00:11:19,440 --> 00:11:20,640
Speaker 3: an ad from the East End.

224
00:11:20,960 --> 00:11:24,680
Speaker 2: No. Wow, the two things I like, pitching to ads

225
00:11:24,679 --> 00:11:25,319
Speaker 2: and context.

226
00:11:26,200 --> 00:11:27,319
Speaker 3: Give me the context.

227
00:11:28,000 --> 00:11:29,920
Speaker 2: I've been talking a lot about the Celts and a

228
00:11:29,960 --> 00:11:32,080
Speaker 2: bit about ancient Rome for the past couple weeks on

229
00:11:32,120 --> 00:11:35,400
Speaker 2: this show because I picked druids for Spooky Week because

230
00:11:35,400 --> 00:11:37,640
Speaker 2: I was looking around and I have some books on

231
00:11:38,160 --> 00:11:41,240
Speaker 2: druids stuff that I wanted to read because it was autumn,

232
00:11:41,559 --> 00:11:43,440
Speaker 2: and then I decided to write about them. And then

233
00:11:43,559 --> 00:11:46,640
Speaker 2: last week I talked about the Galley, the trans Priestesses

234
00:11:46,679 --> 00:11:50,319
Speaker 2: of Sibylly, a goddess of ancient Rome that ancient Rome

235
00:11:50,360 --> 00:11:54,080
Speaker 2: borrowed the goddess with permission oddly from Anatolia. And so

236
00:11:54,120 --> 00:11:57,760
Speaker 2: there's this whole cult of trans priestesses. And when I

237
00:11:57,760 --> 00:12:00,800
Speaker 2: say cult, it's in the Roman sense, where like literally

238
00:12:00,840 --> 00:12:05,880
Speaker 2: the priesthood of a god, not like wingnut weird cult,

239
00:12:06,280 --> 00:12:08,120
Speaker 2: although the Galley were also a wingnut weird cult and

240
00:12:08,120 --> 00:12:13,920
Speaker 2: they were really cool. The short version of Celtic Celtia,

241
00:12:14,720 --> 00:12:18,439
Speaker 2: just not what it's called, goes something like this. There

242
00:12:18,520 --> 00:12:21,520
Speaker 2: was a Celtic culture which was more like a loose

243
00:12:21,559 --> 00:12:24,920
Speaker 2: collection of cultures that shared some languages, and it was

244
00:12:24,960 --> 00:12:29,080
Speaker 2: most densely found along what you might call Atlantic Europe.

245
00:12:29,160 --> 00:12:31,120
Speaker 2: By the end of the Iron Age, like coming up

246
00:12:31,200 --> 00:12:34,720
Speaker 2: on where Bce becomes Ce, we're talking mostly about what's

247
00:12:34,760 --> 00:12:39,679
Speaker 2: now France, and Belgium and Britain and Ireland. There's druids

248
00:12:39,920 --> 00:12:43,240
Speaker 2: who are this sort of elite educated caste or class

249
00:12:43,320 --> 00:12:47,520
Speaker 2: in Celtic society, class or caste, depending on which historian

250
00:12:47,600 --> 00:12:52,280
Speaker 2: you read. Basically, they're the druids. They mediated conflicts, they

251
00:12:52,280 --> 00:12:55,439
Speaker 2: presided as judges. They spent nineteen or twenty years learning

252
00:12:55,480 --> 00:12:58,840
Speaker 2: an entirely oral system of knowledge that included just astounding

253
00:12:58,920 --> 00:13:03,079
Speaker 2: levels of astronomical mind. They were the wise philosophers by

254
00:13:03,080 --> 00:13:06,560
Speaker 2: most standards. They also may or may not have presided

255
00:13:06,600 --> 00:13:10,600
Speaker 2: over human sacrifice. They probably did, but the degree to

256
00:13:10,640 --> 00:13:12,599
Speaker 2: which they did is played up by Rome, who was

257
00:13:12,640 --> 00:13:13,600
Speaker 2: busy killing them all.

258
00:13:14,240 --> 00:13:17,560
Speaker 3: Everybody was getting up just something back then. I know,

259
00:13:17,960 --> 00:13:19,200
Speaker 3: nobody's nerve act.

260
00:13:19,760 --> 00:13:22,280
Speaker 2: Honestly, Like I wrote this whole essay about this recently.

261
00:13:22,440 --> 00:13:24,080
Speaker 2: One of the main things I'm obsessed with right now

262
00:13:24,160 --> 00:13:27,360
Speaker 2: is like how metal was the old world. I don't know,

263
00:13:28,240 --> 00:13:31,240
Speaker 2: right because like all the people being like, oh they

264
00:13:31,280 --> 00:13:33,760
Speaker 2: did all this human sacrifice, or people being like we

265
00:13:33,800 --> 00:13:35,640
Speaker 2: want to genocide them, and it's kind of like how

266
00:13:35,679 --> 00:13:39,760
Speaker 2: like modern islamophobias, like they throw gays off of rooftops

267
00:13:39,760 --> 00:13:43,160
Speaker 2: and I'm like, yeah, that's happened. But not as often

268
00:13:43,200 --> 00:13:44,800
Speaker 2: as people die over here, you know.

269
00:13:44,880 --> 00:13:47,160
Speaker 3: Not as often as they're getting shot with AK forty

270
00:13:47,200 --> 00:13:52,320
Speaker 3: seven's over here. Yeah, should think also, you know, if

271
00:13:52,360 --> 00:13:55,000
Speaker 3: life was ugly, brutish and short, sure, but I just

272
00:13:55,040 --> 00:13:57,080
Speaker 3: don't think it was. I think that they're like really

273
00:13:57,440 --> 00:14:00,559
Speaker 3: shooting above like what a party element must have been

274
00:14:00,600 --> 00:14:02,920
Speaker 3: back then? Who among us hasn't been at a fucking

275
00:14:03,080 --> 00:14:07,400
Speaker 3: rager and suddenly somebody's on the pire. What are you

276
00:14:07,440 --> 00:14:10,439
Speaker 3: gonna do? But the crops grew well that year, didn't

277
00:14:10,480 --> 00:14:14,560
Speaker 3: they They sure did. Yeah, and nobody liked that guy anyway.

278
00:14:15,080 --> 00:14:18,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, he was a cop from the mainland in the Wickerman.

279
00:14:18,440 --> 00:14:21,760
Speaker 2: It was all totally fine. Yeah, trying to reference Wickerman,

280
00:14:21,840 --> 00:14:23,640
Speaker 2: Sophi's favorite movie as often as possible.

281
00:14:23,880 --> 00:14:25,080
Speaker 1: I enjoyed that immensely.

282
00:14:27,040 --> 00:14:31,160
Speaker 2: So Rome went through Gaul which is now France, and

283
00:14:31,240 --> 00:14:33,640
Speaker 2: just like killed the shit out of everyone. After writing

284
00:14:33,680 --> 00:14:37,040
Speaker 2: all this propaganda being like they're these horrible, skull obsessed

285
00:14:37,120 --> 00:14:41,400
Speaker 2: human sacrifice people, which minus the horrible is probably true.

286
00:14:41,640 --> 00:14:44,960
Speaker 2: They were absolutely skall obsessed. They were probably headhunters. There's

287
00:14:44,960 --> 00:14:47,720
Speaker 2: many sources that say they were. They were absolutely doing

288
00:14:47,760 --> 00:14:49,680
Speaker 2: all these things. So it was just kind of everyone

289
00:14:49,880 --> 00:14:51,440
Speaker 2: at the time. It is the style at the time.

290
00:14:52,000 --> 00:14:55,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, Danzig's still keeping it alive, and it's a style

291
00:14:55,880 --> 00:14:57,320
Speaker 3: that never goes out of fashion. Really.

292
00:14:57,400 --> 00:15:00,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, I read this one source this It was a

293
00:15:00,240 --> 00:15:03,080
Speaker 2: couple of weeks ago. I said Rome did a genocide

294
00:15:03,560 --> 00:15:07,600
Speaker 2: in Gaulm that some sources claim that they killed a

295
00:15:07,640 --> 00:15:09,640
Speaker 2: third of the people there and enslaved a third of

296
00:15:09,640 --> 00:15:11,960
Speaker 2: the people there. And I read this one source and

297
00:15:12,000 --> 00:15:13,880
Speaker 2: I don't have it linked in my show notes because

298
00:15:13,880 --> 00:15:15,400
Speaker 2: I thought it was a shit source and I wasn't

299
00:15:15,400 --> 00:15:17,880
Speaker 2: going to use it. But then now several weeks later,

300
00:15:17,880 --> 00:15:22,080
Speaker 2: I'm still thinking about it. Which is one guy saying, like, actually,

301
00:15:22,640 --> 00:15:25,880
Speaker 2: with a fedora on, it wasn't a genocide when Rome

302
00:15:25,960 --> 00:15:28,640
Speaker 2: killed and enslaved hundreds of thousands or millions of Galls,

303
00:15:28,680 --> 00:15:32,600
Speaker 2: the Celts in France, because they weren't killed four being Gaulls.

304
00:15:32,720 --> 00:15:34,360
Speaker 2: It's just that Rome wanted to kill them and take

305
00:15:34,400 --> 00:15:36,200
Speaker 2: their stuff and their land, and they just happened to

306
00:15:36,240 --> 00:15:37,400
Speaker 2: live where Rome wanted to be.

307
00:15:37,560 --> 00:15:41,360
Speaker 3: It wasn't a genocide. It was more of a holocaust. Yeah,

308
00:15:41,560 --> 00:15:45,240
Speaker 3: words mean stuff like in the first year of Israel's

309
00:15:45,240 --> 00:15:49,080
Speaker 3: genocide in Gaza, all these people I'm like, Websters defines genocide.

310
00:15:49,080 --> 00:15:50,960
Speaker 3: I like, shut the fuck up, nerd, I'm gonna put

311
00:15:50,960 --> 00:15:53,280
Speaker 3: you in a toilet, a locker, idiot.

312
00:15:53,560 --> 00:15:55,400
Speaker 2: And then also it was just like pretty soon you'd

313
00:15:55,400 --> 00:15:57,760
Speaker 2: be like, well Webster's defines Oh yeah, no, that's still

314
00:15:57,840 --> 00:16:00,560
Speaker 2: that's actually what's happening. That is the definition of what's happening.

315
00:16:01,080 --> 00:16:05,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, and like if this far back close enough, let's

316
00:16:06,240 --> 00:16:07,440
Speaker 3: we got to study this stuff.

317
00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:10,840
Speaker 2: So Rome killed a shit out of the Celts, especially

318
00:16:10,880 --> 00:16:15,000
Speaker 2: in Gaul. Then Julius Caesar tried to invade Britain in

319
00:16:15,080 --> 00:16:17,840
Speaker 2: fifty five BCE and he got his ass handed to

320
00:16:17,920 --> 00:16:18,600
Speaker 2: him by the Celts.

321
00:16:18,880 --> 00:16:19,280
Speaker 3: Let's go.

322
00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:23,840
Speaker 2: So he went home, and do you know what he did.

323
00:16:24,440 --> 00:16:28,880
Speaker 2: He took advantage of the deals that we're offering to

324
00:16:29,000 --> 00:16:33,240
Speaker 2: you today. If you want to get together with an

325
00:16:33,320 --> 00:16:37,320
Speaker 2: empire and invade Britain, I can't see how you can

326
00:16:37,400 --> 00:16:41,920
Speaker 2: do it without whatever we advertise on this show. Wow,

327
00:16:42,400 --> 00:16:42,920
Speaker 2: thank you.

328
00:16:43,560 --> 00:16:46,240
Speaker 3: Soldier of Fortune magazine.

329
00:16:47,480 --> 00:16:50,240
Speaker 2: I'm just gonna start a magazine called Invade Britain.

330
00:16:51,520 --> 00:16:55,400
Speaker 3: Looking for twenty to thirty stout men for my gallion.

331
00:16:56,640 --> 00:16:59,440
Speaker 2: Oh god, this is basically what Engels tried to argue

332
00:16:59,480 --> 00:17:01,720
Speaker 2: that the only thing the Irish could possibly ever be

333
00:17:01,720 --> 00:17:05,439
Speaker 2: good for communism Anyway, I live in the real world

334
00:17:05,480 --> 00:17:08,480
Speaker 2: and not just reading theory and history from hundreds of

335
00:17:08,520 --> 00:17:15,280
Speaker 2: years ago. Here's ads.

336
00:17:14,640 --> 00:17:16,119
Speaker 3: And we're back, okay.

337
00:17:16,119 --> 00:17:18,359
Speaker 2: So Julius Caesar, he goes home, he gets the shit together,

338
00:17:18,359 --> 00:17:22,280
Speaker 2: He reads Soldier of Fortune magazine, he reads Invading Britain magazine,

339
00:17:22,400 --> 00:17:26,360
Speaker 2: and he shows back up a year later with more

340
00:17:26,359 --> 00:17:32,480
Speaker 2: troops this time and maybe a war elephant, although that's conjecture.

341
00:17:32,800 --> 00:17:35,240
Speaker 2: One hundred years later, the Romans they're going to claim

342
00:17:35,240 --> 00:17:38,879
Speaker 2: to invade Britain with war elephants. Historians doubt it. But

343
00:17:39,600 --> 00:17:42,399
Speaker 2: I am so here for the elephants having invaded Britain,

344
00:17:42,520 --> 00:17:44,480
Speaker 2: even though they're the bad guys doing it. It's just

345
00:17:44,560 --> 00:17:44,960
Speaker 2: such an.

346
00:17:44,880 --> 00:17:46,320
Speaker 3: As is post Hannibal, right.

347
00:17:47,400 --> 00:17:50,600
Speaker 2: I don't know enough about Rome to tell you. I mean,

348
00:17:51,160 --> 00:17:54,000
Speaker 2: they had access to elephants, but I.

349
00:17:53,920 --> 00:17:56,840
Speaker 3: Mean Hannibal was the first to do it, and Julius

350
00:17:56,880 --> 00:17:58,680
Speaker 3: never had an original idea in his life.

351
00:17:58,720 --> 00:17:59,800
Speaker 2: That seems probably true.

352
00:18:00,040 --> 00:18:03,160
Speaker 3: Anyone cares about Julius Caesar, send me an email at

353
00:18:03,560 --> 00:18:05,800
Speaker 3: Margaret Kiljoy at gmail dot com.

354
00:18:06,680 --> 00:18:11,080
Speaker 2: How do you know my email address? So Julius Caesar

355
00:18:11,119 --> 00:18:14,640
Speaker 2: shows back up this time, and he he gets kind

356
00:18:14,640 --> 00:18:17,320
Speaker 2: of into a stalemate. You'll read people being like he won,

357
00:18:17,440 --> 00:18:19,800
Speaker 2: You'll read people being like he lost, and you'll read

358
00:18:19,800 --> 00:18:21,760
Speaker 2: people being like it was a stalemate. I'm going with

359
00:18:21,760 --> 00:18:25,240
Speaker 2: that one. He declared one group of Britons to be

360
00:18:25,280 --> 00:18:28,760
Speaker 2: his subjects with a client king who owed him taxes

361
00:18:28,880 --> 00:18:33,399
Speaker 2: or whatever, and then fucked off, and you know, he

362
00:18:33,480 --> 00:18:36,160
Speaker 2: kind of cut his losses. He wasn't doing super well,

363
00:18:36,200 --> 00:18:39,840
Speaker 2: but he convinced a couple people to send him shit

364
00:18:39,880 --> 00:18:44,239
Speaker 2: every year. But there's a couple problems. One was that

365
00:18:44,280 --> 00:18:46,919
Speaker 2: Britain was poor as hell. There was like kind of

366
00:18:46,920 --> 00:18:50,679
Speaker 2: nothing there historically pre that they were part of, like

367
00:18:50,720 --> 00:18:53,440
Speaker 2: the tin trade. But the only thing it was good

368
00:18:53,520 --> 00:18:58,560
Speaker 2: for from Rome's point of view was providing slaves. Caesar

369
00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:01,280
Speaker 2: wrote about the peace people he was there to conquer.

370
00:19:01,920 --> 00:19:04,640
Speaker 2: Quote I promise you Caesar quotes. Don't worry here we are.

371
00:19:05,480 --> 00:19:08,160
Speaker 2: They do not regard it lawful to eat the hair

372
00:19:08,520 --> 00:19:13,120
Speaker 2: and the cock and the goose. They however, breed them

373
00:19:13,160 --> 00:19:17,760
Speaker 2: for amusement and pleasure. Most inland inhabitants do not sow corn.

374
00:19:18,160 --> 00:19:20,919
Speaker 2: Corn means wheat. It was just like a catch all

375
00:19:20,920 --> 00:19:24,199
Speaker 2: word for grain like cereals at the time. Well, I

376
00:19:24,200 --> 00:19:26,800
Speaker 2: mean actually was all written in Latin, but whatever, But

377
00:19:26,920 --> 00:19:30,760
Speaker 2: live on milk and flesh, and are clad with skins.

378
00:19:31,760 --> 00:19:35,960
Speaker 2: All the Britons indeed dye themselves with woed, which occasions

379
00:19:35,960 --> 00:19:39,720
Speaker 2: a bluish color, and thereby have a more terrible appearance

380
00:19:39,760 --> 00:19:43,639
Speaker 2: and fight. They wear their hair long and have every

381
00:19:43,680 --> 00:19:46,880
Speaker 2: part of their body shaved except their head and upper lip.

382
00:19:47,800 --> 00:19:51,719
Speaker 2: Ten and even twelve have wives common to them, and

383
00:19:51,800 --> 00:19:56,040
Speaker 2: particularly brothers among brothers, and parents among their children. But

384
00:19:56,160 --> 00:19:58,679
Speaker 2: if there be any issue by these wives, they are

385
00:19:58,680 --> 00:20:01,880
Speaker 2: reputed to be the children of those whom, respectively, each

386
00:20:02,040 --> 00:20:05,119
Speaker 2: was first espoused when a virgin. Okay, so that's like

387
00:20:05,200 --> 00:20:06,919
Speaker 2: kind of the most interesting part from my point of view,

388
00:20:06,960 --> 00:20:10,399
Speaker 2: because it's not how people do marriage these days.

389
00:20:11,000 --> 00:20:12,199
Speaker 3: That's a lot like my friends.

390
00:20:13,040 --> 00:20:17,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, honestly, they use either brass or iron rings determined

391
00:20:17,280 --> 00:20:19,800
Speaker 2: as a certain weight as their money. Okay, that's the

392
00:20:19,880 --> 00:20:23,880
Speaker 2: end of my quote. And they also fought from chariot back,

393
00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:26,600
Speaker 2: which the Romans didn't do yet at this point. Like

394
00:20:26,640 --> 00:20:29,240
Speaker 2: at one point when he first showed up, four thousand

395
00:20:29,400 --> 00:20:31,880
Speaker 2: chariots show up and like fuck his shit up.

396
00:20:32,320 --> 00:20:35,959
Speaker 3: He's immediately taking notes. Good for Colisseum.

397
00:20:36,800 --> 00:20:40,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, Romans had been using chariots too. This put me

398
00:20:40,520 --> 00:20:42,840
Speaker 2: down a whole rabbit hole of the history of chariots. Fortunately,

399
00:20:42,920 --> 00:20:46,240
Speaker 2: there's maps that show the disbursement of chariots across the world.

400
00:20:46,560 --> 00:20:50,640
Speaker 2: But Romans were using them for getting around. Basically, they're

401
00:20:50,720 --> 00:20:52,720
Speaker 2: kind of like the limo of the time, the like

402
00:20:53,480 --> 00:20:55,440
Speaker 2: fancy wave to travel if you're fancy.

403
00:20:56,040 --> 00:20:59,280
Speaker 3: Were horses native to the English Isles at this time

404
00:20:59,400 --> 00:20:59,919
Speaker 3: or do they have to?

405
00:21:00,320 --> 00:21:03,640
Speaker 2: They definitely had horses. I don't know when horses came

406
00:21:03,680 --> 00:21:07,159
Speaker 2: to England, but I know that pre Roman conquest coinage

407
00:21:07,640 --> 00:21:12,320
Speaker 2: from people including the Icinae have horses instead of like kings.

408
00:21:12,359 --> 00:21:15,080
Speaker 2: Instead of it being like here's our king, they're like

409
00:21:15,200 --> 00:21:17,440
Speaker 2: horses rule. We like horses.

410
00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:19,560
Speaker 3: We got a horse instead of a king, like a

411
00:21:19,600 --> 00:21:21,159
Speaker 3: town that has a dog for a mayor that.

412
00:21:21,280 --> 00:21:24,359
Speaker 2: Oh, we're just on their coins. But oh okay, but no,

413
00:21:24,480 --> 00:21:26,119
Speaker 2: you know what we're going with your version because we

414
00:21:26,119 --> 00:21:28,119
Speaker 2: don't have any evidence otherwise because they didn't write anything down.

415
00:21:28,160 --> 00:21:29,520
Speaker 3: That's right, historians prove me wrong.

416
00:21:29,800 --> 00:21:34,680
Speaker 2: Yeah soon enough. Honestly, like fighting from chariot back kind

417
00:21:34,680 --> 00:21:37,159
Speaker 2: of wasn't the way to do modern warfare, and so

418
00:21:37,280 --> 00:21:41,560
Speaker 2: after a while they moved to cavalry instead. A side

419
00:21:41,640 --> 00:21:44,560
Speaker 2: note about the Wod thing, because after I finished the script,

420
00:21:44,560 --> 00:21:47,399
Speaker 2: I fell down a long rabbit hole about wod. You know,

421
00:21:47,520 --> 00:21:50,000
Speaker 2: this is kind of like the most famous thing about

422
00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:53,000
Speaker 2: the Britons. They like paint themselves of blue spirals or

423
00:21:53,040 --> 00:21:54,080
Speaker 2: whatever and live in the woods.

424
00:21:55,040 --> 00:21:55,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, love that.

425
00:21:56,280 --> 00:21:58,480
Speaker 2: This is the thing that said the most about them.

426
00:21:58,800 --> 00:22:03,080
Speaker 2: Modern historians are very, very skeptical, but other people are

427
00:22:03,119 --> 00:22:06,639
Speaker 2: skeptical of the skepticism. Modern historians will say things like,

428
00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:11,040
Speaker 2: and I'm paraphrasing rudely, Wode makes bad body paint, and

429
00:22:11,080 --> 00:22:14,000
Speaker 2: it's also kind of toxic. It leaves burning and scarring

430
00:22:14,040 --> 00:22:17,440
Speaker 2: because it's an allergen. That sounds like an argument about

431
00:22:17,440 --> 00:22:21,840
Speaker 2: why they're probably not Wode painted. Because the main argument

432
00:22:21,840 --> 00:22:23,560
Speaker 2: in favor of the Wod thing is that the fact

433
00:22:23,560 --> 00:22:27,640
Speaker 2: that the picts literally means like the painted people. It's

434
00:22:27,640 --> 00:22:29,679
Speaker 2: an exonym. It's like what the Romans were calling them.

435
00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:32,000
Speaker 2: They're the people who live like a little bit kind

436
00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:36,159
Speaker 2: of like Lower Scotland area whatever. And Julius Caesar was like,

437
00:22:36,160 --> 00:22:38,000
Speaker 2: they paint themselves with WOD, although I think he actually

438
00:22:38,040 --> 00:22:41,480
Speaker 2: wrote glass and then like the specific word also means

439
00:22:41,680 --> 00:22:47,800
Speaker 2: this plant again. Whatever. Enter the SCA, the Society for

440
00:22:47,880 --> 00:22:51,240
Speaker 2: Creative Anachronism, who are like, we didn't fuck her out

441
00:22:51,240 --> 00:22:53,600
Speaker 2: with historians telling us you can't do this, We're just

442
00:22:53,640 --> 00:22:54,359
Speaker 2: gonna do it.

443
00:22:54,960 --> 00:22:56,960
Speaker 3: I'm just out there doing woe for myself.

444
00:22:58,119 --> 00:23:01,679
Speaker 2: I really like how this happens a lot that people

445
00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:05,760
Speaker 2: just like recreate the things to see if they work. Like,

446
00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:09,600
Speaker 2: we know a lot about medieval combat because of people

447
00:23:09,640 --> 00:23:11,840
Speaker 2: being like, what actually works if you have a fucking

448
00:23:11,880 --> 00:23:15,399
Speaker 2: claym war, you know, and people just fucking around with it.

449
00:23:15,640 --> 00:23:17,399
Speaker 2: So the SCA folks were like, all right, we're going

450
00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:19,920
Speaker 2: to pan ourselves a woad and see what happens. There's

451
00:23:19,920 --> 00:23:22,640
Speaker 2: a whole recipe linked in the show notes of my sources.

452
00:23:22,840 --> 00:23:25,320
Speaker 2: One person talks about having painted hundreds of people with

453
00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:28,200
Speaker 2: the recipe that they use, and it's caused two minor

454
00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:34,280
Speaker 2: allergic reactions ever total. That's good average, yeah, honestly, And

455
00:23:34,320 --> 00:23:36,280
Speaker 2: it depends on how you make the paint whether or

456
00:23:36,280 --> 00:23:39,080
Speaker 2: not it's a good paint. This person uses whiskey because

457
00:23:39,119 --> 00:23:43,160
Speaker 2: the alcohol evaporates quickly and leaves the paint behind. Anyway,

458
00:23:43,880 --> 00:23:46,960
Speaker 2: that's my side quest about Wode. I love watching people

459
00:23:47,040 --> 00:23:51,000
Speaker 2: argue about whether or not like different people tattooed and

460
00:23:51,040 --> 00:23:52,840
Speaker 2: what body piercings and stuff they had.

461
00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:56,359
Speaker 3: How fucked up these people wound up looking. I can't

462
00:23:56,840 --> 00:23:59,560
Speaker 3: I won't imagine them not painted in spirals and stuff.

463
00:23:59,560 --> 00:24:03,560
Speaker 3: And if you like, I mean going around seeing all

464
00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:07,119
Speaker 3: the dolmans, seeing all the standing stones, all the old carvings,

465
00:24:07,280 --> 00:24:12,440
Speaker 3: like spirals were so important out there, whatever you want

466
00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:16,080
Speaker 3: to act like they represented. It's not a far leap

467
00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:18,280
Speaker 3: to say that they would like put it all over

468
00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:22,959
Speaker 3: themselves as a protection barrier, just to look like really cunty,

469
00:24:23,119 --> 00:24:26,480
Speaker 3: just to make the Romans scared, just to show off

470
00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:29,359
Speaker 3: like I have the most spirals, Like makes sense to me.

471
00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:32,520
Speaker 2: Tomorrow I'm gonna go hit people with a sword, and

472
00:24:32,520 --> 00:24:35,119
Speaker 2: they're gonna hit me with a sword. I'm gonna fucking

473
00:24:35,320 --> 00:24:37,960
Speaker 2: like do it up and get into some weird shit

474
00:24:38,040 --> 00:24:39,159
Speaker 2: the night before, you know.

475
00:24:39,880 --> 00:24:42,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, And what a move to put a spiral right above,

476
00:24:42,119 --> 00:24:44,320
Speaker 3: Like okay, we know when you stab somebody right here,

477
00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:46,840
Speaker 3: they die, I'm put spiral and say, like go ahead

478
00:24:46,960 --> 00:24:47,879
Speaker 3: do it if you want to.

479
00:24:48,520 --> 00:24:49,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, totally, I.

480
00:24:49,640 --> 00:24:51,119
Speaker 3: Spelled it out for you motherfucker.

481
00:24:51,600 --> 00:24:54,760
Speaker 2: More argument in favor of them painting themselves and or

482
00:24:54,800 --> 00:24:57,879
Speaker 2: tattooing themselves is that a lot of a coinage that

483
00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:01,119
Speaker 2: did get developed that was still Celtic and not Roman

484
00:25:01,680 --> 00:25:04,400
Speaker 2: would have people's faces on it, and they would have

485
00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:06,760
Speaker 2: usually on their like it be a face in profile

486
00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:10,000
Speaker 2: in the Roman style. You could see their like tattoos

487
00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:12,520
Speaker 2: or woe paintings on their faces.

488
00:25:13,160 --> 00:25:14,480
Speaker 3: That seems pretty cut and dry.

489
00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:17,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, really honestly, the question to me is like

490
00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:20,040
Speaker 2: was it woed or was it some other pigment? And

491
00:25:20,160 --> 00:25:22,200
Speaker 2: was it tattoo or paint? Those are like the only

492
00:25:22,280 --> 00:25:22,960
Speaker 2: questions I have.

493
00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:26,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, how blue? Was this blue? We're talking here?

494
00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:29,000
Speaker 2: Yeah? Exactly because they also.

495
00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:32,040
Speaker 3: I mean I know that like the word in Irish,

496
00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:35,000
Speaker 3: I think through Gaelic for like when you're referring to

497
00:25:35,119 --> 00:25:39,840
Speaker 3: like like black people is like the blue people. So like, right,

498
00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:42,879
Speaker 3: it could have been black paint or something.

499
00:25:43,080 --> 00:25:46,800
Speaker 2: Oh interesting. Yeah, I learned that because I did a

500
00:25:46,800 --> 00:25:50,160
Speaker 2: whole thing on the way that mummers and stuff would

501
00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:52,959
Speaker 2: decorate themselves to go do weird witchy shit, you know.

502
00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:55,600
Speaker 2: And I was talking about like, oh, people paint themselves black,

503
00:25:56,240 --> 00:25:59,440
Speaker 2: and then like I heard from a listener who turned

504
00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:01,640
Speaker 2: me on to the fact that like people with dark

505
00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:04,440
Speaker 2: skin were called blue skinned within Irish language instead of

506
00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:09,160
Speaker 2: black skinned, because black skinned meant a different thing anyway.

507
00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:13,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, to call someone black was too kind of they

508
00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:17,600
Speaker 3: didn't have a differentiation for like black nighttime other world

509
00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:20,399
Speaker 3: evils and they're like, oh, these people aren't evil, and

510
00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:22,399
Speaker 3: they've got kind of a blue about them. And there

511
00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:25,040
Speaker 3: was a lot of trade going on between the North

512
00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:28,679
Speaker 3: coast of Africa. There's a really interesting history between like

513
00:26:29,040 --> 00:26:31,600
Speaker 3: all the music that got traded back and forth, but

514
00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:34,080
Speaker 3: like more than years ago anyway, and.

515
00:26:34,119 --> 00:26:36,240
Speaker 2: Then it happens again in Appalachia.

516
00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:38,520
Speaker 3: I surefucking does. Time is a flat circle.

517
00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:45,159
Speaker 2: Yeah, So anyway, Julius Caesar shows up, he comes, he saws,

518
00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:47,720
Speaker 2: he doesn't really conquer. He like makes an ally and

519
00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:49,640
Speaker 2: he's like, could you'd like send me some stuff every

520
00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:52,280
Speaker 2: year so I don't kick your ass, And the guy's like, yeah, whatever.

521
00:26:53,560 --> 00:26:56,560
Speaker 2: Britain demands some tribute and shit from the kings in Britain.

522
00:26:56,720 --> 00:26:59,399
Speaker 2: Occasionally some boot liquor kings we get run out and

523
00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:01,720
Speaker 2: fleet round home and there was some trade in shit

524
00:27:01,840 --> 00:27:04,680
Speaker 2: for about one hundred years. That's what we're looking at.

525
00:27:04,880 --> 00:27:08,960
Speaker 2: Then an emperor named Claudius in a d forty three

526
00:27:09,760 --> 00:27:13,320
Speaker 2: oversaw the actual conquest of Britain. He wasn't really a

527
00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:16,679
Speaker 2: military guy himself, but he showed up in person and

528
00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:20,639
Speaker 2: eleven British kings immediately surrendered without putting up a fight. Again,

529
00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:24,200
Speaker 2: according to the Roman accounts, there also was some fighting,

530
00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:28,920
Speaker 2: but eleven kings were like, ah, you're here, You're really powerful.

531
00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:31,880
Speaker 3: Did he have a you know, a way about him?

532
00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:33,560
Speaker 3: There's just like, oh, fuck, Audi, this is here.

533
00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:36,360
Speaker 2: I have like steadfastively refused to become one of those

534
00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:38,240
Speaker 2: like row we boos or whatever.

535
00:27:38,359 --> 00:27:40,359
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, and like care about Rome.

536
00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:43,200
Speaker 2: And so I don't know a ton about the different emperors,

537
00:27:43,560 --> 00:27:47,080
Speaker 2: but Claudius was specifically kind of seen as like a weakling.

538
00:27:47,119 --> 00:27:49,520
Speaker 2: And it's the reason he didn't get purged when all

539
00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:53,120
Speaker 2: of the other competitors were getting purged is because they're like, ah,

540
00:27:53,119 --> 00:27:54,920
Speaker 2: it's the way this guy's gonna end up in charge.

541
00:27:55,600 --> 00:27:57,280
Speaker 2: But he was actually really smart and a really good

542
00:27:57,280 --> 00:27:59,480
Speaker 2: administrator and did a lot of the building of roads

543
00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:02,359
Speaker 2: and shit that allowed colonial expansion and evil things. I'm

544
00:28:02,359 --> 00:28:03,520
Speaker 2: not trying to hold him up as a good guy.

545
00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:05,240
Speaker 2: I'm just gonna say he's a good administrator.

546
00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:08,480
Speaker 3: No, yeah, he's a banality of evil type.

547
00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:12,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, and he also might have had elephants. Again, Romans

548
00:28:12,840 --> 00:28:15,800
Speaker 2: are like, yeah, he fucking brought elephants, and the fucking

549
00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:17,760
Speaker 2: Brits were like, holy shit, what the fuck is that?

550
00:28:17,880 --> 00:28:18,600
Speaker 3: You gotta hate it.

551
00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:21,399
Speaker 2: The historians were like, I don't know about that, but

552
00:28:21,480 --> 00:28:23,400
Speaker 2: I really want him to have shown up with elephants,

553
00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:27,560
Speaker 2: because then that makes him the hair drim, like the

554
00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:30,360
Speaker 2: Olifunts from Lord of the Rings, the evil invaders from

555
00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:32,840
Speaker 2: the East to the Southeast. And then it's not as

556
00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:34,720
Speaker 2: racist as it is in Tolkien's world.

557
00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:37,960
Speaker 3: Mm hmm. Yeah, it's just white people fighting white people here.

558
00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:39,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, and even.

559
00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:42,000
Speaker 3: Though they have Ulafonts who never asked for it.

560
00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:45,800
Speaker 2: By the way, no no one asks a war animal

561
00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:49,000
Speaker 2: whether it wants to do war. Yeah, this is why

562
00:28:49,040 --> 00:28:51,400
Speaker 2: I'm like not mad at cop dogs, Like whatever, it's

563
00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:51,960
Speaker 2: not their fault.

564
00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:56,200
Speaker 3: Don't make me choose. Just want to eat sugarcane and vibe.

565
00:28:56,800 --> 00:29:01,680
Speaker 2: I know, so eleven kings to him, but this doesn't

566
00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:04,080
Speaker 2: mean that Rome had all of Britain, or even most

567
00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:07,560
Speaker 2: of Britain. But the Romans started trying to force agriculture,

568
00:29:07,720 --> 00:29:11,000
Speaker 2: and you know their conception of civilization on the barbarians

569
00:29:11,040 --> 00:29:14,640
Speaker 2: of Britain to get better tribute out of them. One

570
00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:19,080
Speaker 2: group of people, the Icni, which is spelled ice n

571
00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:23,120
Speaker 2: i Icni, and it could be pronounced in multiple ways,

572
00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:25,400
Speaker 2: we don't fucking know, but this is the main way

573
00:29:25,440 --> 00:29:29,080
Speaker 2: that people say. It's in the northeast of the lower

574
00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:31,560
Speaker 2: half of Britain. This is about as like north as

575
00:29:31,560 --> 00:29:35,000
Speaker 2: you could get decent agricultural land. But they also had

576
00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:38,360
Speaker 2: the Fenlands or the Fenlands or the Ventures. It wasn't

577
00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:39,920
Speaker 2: actually the Ventures. I'm just trying to make fun of

578
00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:42,360
Speaker 2: British names right now. There as they had a fucked

579
00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:47,880
Speaker 2: ton of wetlands. So Rome made the Icni drain their

580
00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:55,000
Speaker 2: own swamps and start planting corn, cereal grains, because the

581
00:29:55,120 --> 00:29:58,239
Speaker 2: Romans wanted all that land to be agricultural because they

582
00:29:58,280 --> 00:30:00,880
Speaker 2: wanted to go conquer Scotland, which was called Scotland yet

583
00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:04,520
Speaker 2: and Scotland you can't really grow as much shit, right, no,

584
00:30:06,080 --> 00:30:08,560
Speaker 2: and you need carbs if you want an army to

585
00:30:08,600 --> 00:30:11,080
Speaker 2: march north. All of this like hanging out eating flesh

586
00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:14,040
Speaker 2: and milk, pastoralist shit that's not gonna fucking work for

587
00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:17,640
Speaker 2: like evil standing armies. Okay. The reason it's interesting to

588
00:30:17,680 --> 00:30:19,280
Speaker 2: me is you have this like sort of modern like

589
00:30:20,320 --> 00:30:24,040
Speaker 2: carnivore right wing man whose like whole thing is like,

590
00:30:24,080 --> 00:30:26,400
Speaker 2: I'm a super manly army type and so I eat

591
00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:29,800
Speaker 2: a lot of meat or whatever. Armies like standing armies

592
00:30:29,840 --> 00:30:32,480
Speaker 2: in the expansion of civilization and Roman shit, it doesn't

593
00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:35,720
Speaker 2: come from hunting or pastoralism, but from agriculture.

594
00:30:35,880 --> 00:30:37,600
Speaker 3: What they didn't have a lot of time to kill

595
00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:41,480
Speaker 3: or something to go hunt thousands and thousands of deer

596
00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:46,400
Speaker 3: and depopulate the woods. Yeah, and eat every single nasty

597
00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:47,440
Speaker 3: organ they can find.

598
00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:50,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, No, that was more what the Britons were doing.

599
00:30:50,520 --> 00:30:53,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, when you get time to hang out, you gotta

600
00:30:53,320 --> 00:30:56,240
Speaker 3: put some grains in a bowl, get some rain water

601
00:30:56,320 --> 00:30:58,160
Speaker 3: on it. That's for you. Now go kill a guy.

602
00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:00,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, and as many of them as possible.

603
00:31:01,320 --> 00:31:02,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, you're fueled up.

604
00:31:03,200 --> 00:31:06,200
Speaker 2: And so the ICNI they've got one of these boot

605
00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:08,040
Speaker 2: liquor kings, right, and that's why they're draining all the

606
00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:12,640
Speaker 2: swamps and shit. And his name is Presatagus, and it

607
00:31:12,760 --> 00:31:15,280
Speaker 2: is possible he's one of the original eleven Kings of

608
00:31:15,320 --> 00:31:17,200
Speaker 2: Men who accepted the rings of power from Sore and

609
00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:19,640
Speaker 2: became the Nascol. No wait, sorry, one of the original

610
00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:23,080
Speaker 2: kings who surrendered without a fight to Emperor Claudius. Thank you,

611
00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:27,880
Speaker 2: thank you, Sophie. It's also possible that the CNI revolted

612
00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:30,880
Speaker 2: in forty seven, and then after that revolt was put down,

613
00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:34,040
Speaker 2: this sky Presatagus was put in charge.

614
00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:37,120
Speaker 1: Side note, did you see that person on Blue Sky

615
00:31:37,320 --> 00:31:40,240
Speaker 1: that accused me of not reading Lord of the Rings

616
00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:41,280
Speaker 1: and not reading the book?

617
00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:41,840
Speaker 2: Yeah?

618
00:31:41,880 --> 00:31:44,320
Speaker 1: How dare you? How fucking dare you? They accuse me

619
00:31:44,360 --> 00:31:45,840
Speaker 1: of being only a movie watcher?

620
00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:50,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're a deep fake nerd, Sophie. You just want

621
00:31:50,560 --> 00:31:53,760
Speaker 2: a podcast network full of nerds, but you're a fake one.

622
00:31:54,680 --> 00:31:57,360
Speaker 1: Wow, that cut deep Bagpie.

623
00:31:57,880 --> 00:32:01,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, but it was sarcasm. I hope that one understands

624
00:32:01,160 --> 00:32:01,440
Speaker 2: in the.

625
00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:04,920
Speaker 1: Audience Magpie would never be mean to me.

626
00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:08,920
Speaker 2: No, I would never doubt your nerd cred. That is

627
00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:10,880
Speaker 2: a thank you see strategy.

628
00:32:11,280 --> 00:32:14,320
Speaker 3: Thank you whoever said that. Come go toe to with

629
00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:16,880
Speaker 3: me and Magpie and we'll have a cindar and off

630
00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:21,600
Speaker 3: we gonna Sophie will judge?

631
00:32:21,840 --> 00:32:26,160
Speaker 2: Wait? Can I tell the audience about the how we met?

632
00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:27,680
Speaker 2: Talking about a tattoo idea.

633
00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:32,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, because we were the same person.

634
00:32:32,920 --> 00:32:35,840
Speaker 2: Yeah. Io and I did not yet know each other

635
00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:40,240
Speaker 2: but had been basically producing the same merch for years.

636
00:32:40,560 --> 00:32:43,200
Speaker 2: Io wrote a comic No Gods and No Dungeon Masters,

637
00:32:43,440 --> 00:32:46,480
Speaker 2: while I was independently and unaware of the comic, producing

638
00:32:46,560 --> 00:32:49,040
Speaker 2: shirts that said No Gods, No Dungeon Masters.

639
00:32:48,800 --> 00:32:50,400
Speaker 3: On separate sides of the country.

640
00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:53,040
Speaker 2: And so that I meet Io, and I tried to

641
00:32:53,080 --> 00:32:55,800
Speaker 2: start to explain to Io how I have this plan

642
00:32:56,360 --> 00:32:59,520
Speaker 2: to get acab tattooed and elvish across my neck.

643
00:32:59,760 --> 00:33:02,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I just fucking slammed dunk on you immediately

644
00:33:02,360 --> 00:33:05,040
Speaker 3: pull up my short shorts. It's already there in dwarf

645
00:33:05,080 --> 00:33:05,600
Speaker 3: in ruins.

646
00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:07,840
Speaker 2: Uh.

647
00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:10,320
Speaker 1: Gorgeous anyway, gorgeous.

648
00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:12,480
Speaker 2: Yeah. I have a type for my.

649
00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:14,560
Speaker 1: Friends, beautiful friendship.

650
00:33:14,680 --> 00:33:17,240
Speaker 3: We heart style and said, like you and me, Amigo's

651
00:33:17,240 --> 00:33:23,400
Speaker 3: for life. Yeah, speak friend and be fun. I wish

652
00:33:23,440 --> 00:33:25,160
Speaker 3: I could remember bella.

653
00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:25,920
Speaker 1: What is it?

654
00:33:26,440 --> 00:33:26,600
Speaker 3: Hell?

655
00:33:26,800 --> 00:33:29,120
Speaker 2: I never remember? This is the problem that I was like,

656
00:33:29,160 --> 00:33:30,240
Speaker 2: I've also never read.

657
00:33:30,040 --> 00:33:33,680
Speaker 1: That are you talking about? When they're like, speak friend

658
00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:34,440
Speaker 1: and enter.

659
00:33:34,680 --> 00:33:40,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, what is it mel.

660
00:33:38,680 --> 00:33:45,240
Speaker 1: It's no, it's it's melon melone malone, which means friend.

661
00:33:45,840 --> 00:33:47,600
Speaker 1: So the I looked it up.

662
00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:49,880
Speaker 3: We are Melon for life.

663
00:33:50,080 --> 00:33:54,800
Speaker 1: It's pedro melon am no, which means speak friend and

664
00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:56,719
Speaker 1: enter hot.

665
00:33:57,520 --> 00:33:59,240
Speaker 2: And then it's advertising.

666
00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:00,600
Speaker 3: This is a good podcast.

667
00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:04,200
Speaker 1: I don't even know what we're doing, but I'm loving it.

668
00:34:04,320 --> 00:34:05,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, what are we talking about? Dragons?

669
00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:07,400
Speaker 2: I think we're cinding into an ad break. I think

670
00:34:07,440 --> 00:34:10,960
Speaker 2: that's what we gotta do. Well, here's some ads unless

671
00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:13,920
Speaker 2: you have cooler zone media, in which case here's probably

672
00:34:14,040 --> 00:34:21,759
Speaker 2: the music. And we're back. So you have the bootlegquer

673
00:34:21,840 --> 00:34:26,560
Speaker 2: king Presitagis and he has a problem, and his problem

674
00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:29,680
Speaker 2: is that his wife is coole as shit. His wife

675
00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:30,719
Speaker 2: is so fucking cool.

676
00:34:30,880 --> 00:34:31,880
Speaker 3: Many such cases.

677
00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:36,000
Speaker 2: Her name is Boudica aka our hero for the week.

678
00:34:36,160 --> 00:34:38,880
Speaker 3: Yay and the crowd goes wild.

679
00:34:39,400 --> 00:34:42,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, and we can infer for a couple of reasons,

680
00:34:42,719 --> 00:34:46,280
Speaker 2: as she was anti Roman and pro Barbarian. She seemed

681
00:34:46,280 --> 00:34:48,880
Speaker 2: to be connected with the non conquered peoples of Britain.

682
00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:52,600
Speaker 2: It's possible that she was Irish. This is his conjecture

683
00:34:52,600 --> 00:34:54,840
Speaker 2: from a historian in the nineteen sixties. And I just

684
00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:56,400
Speaker 2: like want to believe it, but it's just because I

685
00:34:56,400 --> 00:34:56,680
Speaker 2: want to.

686
00:34:56,719 --> 00:34:57,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, I want to believe it.

687
00:34:57,880 --> 00:35:01,400
Speaker 2: It's true the like the tour from that region. We

688
00:35:01,440 --> 00:35:03,560
Speaker 2: don't have her torque, but we have like a torque

689
00:35:03,600 --> 00:35:05,880
Speaker 2: like those brass or gold rings that people would wear

690
00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:09,720
Speaker 2: around their necks. She probably wore one, and she's described

691
00:35:09,760 --> 00:35:11,520
Speaker 2: as wearing one, and there's like one from the region,

692
00:35:11,560 --> 00:35:14,960
Speaker 2: and the only other one that's similar is from Ireland anyway.

693
00:35:15,360 --> 00:35:20,759
Speaker 2: And she is described as like tall, masculine framed with

694
00:35:20,840 --> 00:35:24,600
Speaker 2: the most golden hair. It usually gets translated as tawny,

695
00:35:24,680 --> 00:35:27,800
Speaker 2: but it means most golden most literally, and this is

696
00:35:27,840 --> 00:35:30,680
Speaker 2: a word that could be either used to describe blonde

697
00:35:30,840 --> 00:35:34,440
Speaker 2: or red hair people who are obsessed with celts being

698
00:35:34,480 --> 00:35:37,759
Speaker 2: who they are. She's exclusively drawn with red hair.

699
00:35:37,840 --> 00:35:38,120
Speaker 1: M M.

700
00:35:38,840 --> 00:35:43,080
Speaker 3: Masculine framed, red haired woman. Picture me, dear audience as

701
00:35:43,160 --> 00:35:45,920
Speaker 3: a horny cartoon wolf with their tongue rolling across the

702
00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:48,120
Speaker 3: table and eyes bugging out of their head.

703
00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:56,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, the classic muscle marble who of Celtia. And unfortunately

704
00:35:57,600 --> 00:36:00,480
Speaker 2: every written description we have of her was written by

705
00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:03,960
Speaker 2: people later making shit up whole cloth or using descriptions

706
00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:06,520
Speaker 2: from people who knew her. You can infer that she

707
00:36:06,640 --> 00:36:09,040
Speaker 2: was a druid based on her position in society and

708
00:36:09,160 --> 00:36:12,239
Speaker 2: the spellcasting attributed to her, but honestly, we don't know.

709
00:36:12,600 --> 00:36:14,920
Speaker 2: And part of why it's like not really mentioned is

710
00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:17,600
Speaker 2: that the Romans couldn't wrap their head around the fact

711
00:36:17,640 --> 00:36:20,160
Speaker 2: that women were druids, even though they kept witnessing women

712
00:36:20,239 --> 00:36:24,399
Speaker 2: doing all of the things that druids do, and also specifically,

713
00:36:24,440 --> 00:36:26,560
Speaker 2: over and over again, the Romans kept having a problem

714
00:36:26,560 --> 00:36:28,920
Speaker 2: with the Celts, being like, they let women do whatever

715
00:36:28,960 --> 00:36:30,040
Speaker 2: they want.

716
00:36:30,560 --> 00:36:34,680
Speaker 3: Somebody stop them. They're kicking our asses. Our cooked kings

717
00:36:34,719 --> 00:36:38,520
Speaker 3: have too powerful of wives.

718
00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:42,680
Speaker 2: That is what happened to old Prasitagus. Her name Bouticum

719
00:36:43,200 --> 00:36:46,480
Speaker 2: comes from the word for victory, which feels really on

720
00:36:46,600 --> 00:36:49,160
Speaker 2: the nose, considering that the Romans had a god named

721
00:36:49,200 --> 00:36:53,239
Speaker 2: Victoria Victory, but it was a common enough personal name

722
00:36:53,280 --> 00:36:56,560
Speaker 2: as well, and historians tend to assume she was an actual,

723
00:36:56,600 --> 00:36:59,480
Speaker 2: real person, and I'll get to the evidence of that later.

724
00:37:01,400 --> 00:37:06,600
Speaker 2: Presatagus was pro Roman, either because he believed in Rome ideologically,

725
00:37:06,920 --> 00:37:10,680
Speaker 2: or more likely he wanted power or he didn't want

726
00:37:10,719 --> 00:37:14,160
Speaker 2: to see his people killed by invaders. Because the pro

727
00:37:14,239 --> 00:37:16,359
Speaker 2: Roman kings when they accepted the ring of power from

728
00:37:16,360 --> 00:37:19,080
Speaker 2: sour On, they got more and more power because Rome

729
00:37:19,160 --> 00:37:22,840
Speaker 2: wanted fewer, stronger kings rather than like a million different

730
00:37:22,840 --> 00:37:27,400
Speaker 2: tribes and clans to deal with. Press Atagus was already

731
00:37:27,520 --> 00:37:30,080
Speaker 2: halfway a figurehead in his life because most of his

732
00:37:30,160 --> 00:37:32,680
Speaker 2: power was held by Rome. And one of the reasons

733
00:37:32,719 --> 00:37:34,680
Speaker 2: we know this is that there's no coinage with his

734
00:37:34,800 --> 00:37:38,400
Speaker 2: face on it. I read way too many articles talking

735
00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:40,720
Speaker 2: about this one time that people thought that they found

736
00:37:40,719 --> 00:37:43,279
Speaker 2: coins with his name face on it, but then later

737
00:37:43,320 --> 00:37:44,520
Speaker 2: they decided it was someone else.

738
00:37:44,600 --> 00:37:46,719
Speaker 3: It was just some dog's ass. Why would they put

739
00:37:46,719 --> 00:37:47,640
Speaker 3: that on money.

740
00:37:47,640 --> 00:37:51,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, some other Honestly, it was probably his predecessor, so

741
00:37:51,719 --> 00:37:55,440
Speaker 2: our boot liquor. He writes out his will, and in

742
00:37:55,520 --> 00:37:59,840
Speaker 2: it he names his heirs as his two daughters and

743
00:38:00,120 --> 00:38:04,680
Speaker 2: also Emperor Nero, the Emperor of Rome. And it's the

744
00:38:04,760 --> 00:38:07,160
Speaker 2: fact that he left his wife out of this will,

745
00:38:07,280 --> 00:38:10,120
Speaker 2: out of being the heir, because like traditionally, power would

746
00:38:10,160 --> 00:38:12,239
Speaker 2: have gone to her, because you're allowed to be a queen,

747
00:38:12,360 --> 00:38:15,640
Speaker 2: like no questions asked. He writes her out of his will,

748
00:38:16,120 --> 00:38:19,200
Speaker 2: and historians presume that she was pro Rome and that

749
00:38:19,280 --> 00:38:23,359
Speaker 2: he didn't trust her to rule. And then he went

750
00:38:23,400 --> 00:38:26,719
Speaker 2: and died, and no one's conjectured that she killed him.

751
00:38:27,040 --> 00:38:28,799
Speaker 2: They're just like And then he died.

752
00:38:29,600 --> 00:38:33,279
Speaker 3: And then he perished from causes and he left her

753
00:38:33,360 --> 00:38:36,600
Speaker 3: out of his will because she was just too bad ass.

754
00:38:36,680 --> 00:38:39,440
Speaker 3: I can't think of a joke. That's probably the reason, right.

755
00:38:39,440 --> 00:38:41,359
Speaker 2: No, yeah, I mean that, like literally, the most likely

756
00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:43,680
Speaker 2: thing is that she was too pro independence, you know,

757
00:38:43,760 --> 00:38:45,279
Speaker 2: And he was like, that's not what I think is best,

758
00:38:45,280 --> 00:38:47,239
Speaker 2: So I'm leaving it to my kids and Nero. And

759
00:38:48,120 --> 00:38:50,319
Speaker 2: the leaving it to Nero thing was kind of a like,

760
00:38:50,560 --> 00:38:52,080
Speaker 2: it was just a boot licking thing. It was a like,

761
00:38:52,120 --> 00:38:54,399
Speaker 2: please don't kill us, doctor Rome. I don't know why

762
00:38:54,400 --> 00:38:56,520
Speaker 2: it's doctor now, but please don't kill us Roum.

763
00:38:56,320 --> 00:38:59,120
Speaker 3: Please Rome, MD, don't smash me with your big boot.

764
00:39:00,280 --> 00:39:04,720
Speaker 1: Yeah.

765
00:39:04,760 --> 00:39:07,360
Speaker 2: And so two big important things happened at the same

766
00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:11,319
Speaker 2: time that led to this revolt. First of all, the

767
00:39:11,600 --> 00:39:15,480
Speaker 2: ICNI among other Britons, had been basically forced to take

768
00:39:15,600 --> 00:39:19,560
Speaker 2: massive loans from the Romans, presumably on very unfavorable terms,

769
00:39:19,920 --> 00:39:22,040
Speaker 2: and then those money lenders decided it was time to

770
00:39:22,040 --> 00:39:26,800
Speaker 2: call in the debt. Things were pretty unstable in Roman

771
00:39:26,880 --> 00:39:30,920
Speaker 2: Britain at this point. Nero was considering abandoning Britain entirely

772
00:39:31,239 --> 00:39:34,280
Speaker 2: because the generals there kept trying to like conquer West,

773
00:39:34,440 --> 00:39:38,759
Speaker 2: like out to Wales, and kept just losing because the

774
00:39:38,920 --> 00:39:41,759
Speaker 2: people in Britain were very fighty and poor, and it's

775
00:39:41,920 --> 00:39:43,759
Speaker 2: very hard to conquer fighty poor people.

776
00:39:43,840 --> 00:39:46,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, when you're fighting people who had been farming mud

777
00:39:46,600 --> 00:39:49,040
Speaker 3: their whole life, who maybe.

778
00:39:48,800 --> 00:39:51,880
Speaker 2: Had dragons, Yeah, might had dragons.

779
00:39:51,440 --> 00:39:55,080
Speaker 3: And were ready to just bifurcate you right there in

780
00:39:55,120 --> 00:39:55,520
Speaker 3: the milk.

781
00:39:56,840 --> 00:39:58,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's true. They had the big old claymores.

782
00:39:59,239 --> 00:40:02,200
Speaker 3: Yeah. I'd want to go back to sweet Italy myself.

783
00:40:02,520 --> 00:40:04,680
Speaker 2: Once I retire from everything else. I'm just going to

784
00:40:05,200 --> 00:40:07,880
Speaker 2: wing that out. Learn old Irish, not even modern Irish.

785
00:40:07,960 --> 00:40:10,680
Speaker 2: Just learn old Irish and start writing dark ages and

786
00:40:10,760 --> 00:40:14,640
Speaker 2: iron ages, romance novels. That's like my plan.

787
00:40:14,920 --> 00:40:17,200
Speaker 3: Carve them into slabs, leave them in caves.

788
00:40:17,920 --> 00:40:21,520
Speaker 2: Oh fuck yeah, uh huh yeah exactly. So prass Attagis

789
00:40:21,560 --> 00:40:24,319
Speaker 2: he goes and dies, and he left his kingdom in

790
00:40:24,360 --> 00:40:27,160
Speaker 2: the hands of his daughters in Nero, and then Rome

791
00:40:27,280 --> 00:40:30,840
Speaker 2: was like, yeah, actually, we don't give a shit what

792
00:40:30,880 --> 00:40:33,520
Speaker 2: you said in your will, That like literally doesn't matter

793
00:40:33,560 --> 00:40:36,960
Speaker 2: to us. We're taking the whole thing. Fuck your family,

794
00:40:37,480 --> 00:40:40,120
Speaker 2: fuck all your like lesser nobles and all that shit.

795
00:40:40,280 --> 00:40:45,000
Speaker 2: We're just in charge because those who lick boots get

796
00:40:45,000 --> 00:40:48,319
Speaker 2: their teeth kicked in. The Romans had a habit they

797
00:40:48,320 --> 00:40:50,880
Speaker 2: would set up client kingdoms and then they would just

798
00:40:50,920 --> 00:40:53,400
Speaker 2: take the whole thing over anyhow. But let that be

799
00:40:53,480 --> 00:40:56,680
Speaker 2: a lesson tale as old as time. It honestly is.

800
00:40:56,719 --> 00:40:59,799
Speaker 2: This is a pattern that will repeat, it will echo.

801
00:41:00,560 --> 00:41:02,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, if you're a coward, it does not pay off

802
00:41:02,480 --> 00:41:03,120
Speaker 3: for very long.

803
00:41:03,840 --> 00:41:06,640
Speaker 2: No, God hates a coward, and in this case Rome

804
00:41:06,719 --> 00:41:10,280
Speaker 2: made it personal too. They show up, they steal the kingdom,

805
00:41:10,840 --> 00:41:14,000
Speaker 2: They whip Boudica and then rape or two totters no

806
00:41:14,600 --> 00:41:18,600
Speaker 2: and claim the whole kingdom. So at this point there's

807
00:41:18,680 --> 00:41:21,759
Speaker 2: kind of nothing left for the Icni to lose. And

808
00:41:22,480 --> 00:41:25,239
Speaker 2: this like feminist or at least rape revenged nature of

809
00:41:25,239 --> 00:41:28,040
Speaker 2: the revolt is pretty upfront in some of the tellings

810
00:41:28,080 --> 00:41:32,160
Speaker 2: of it. Basically, women were suffering even harder under Roman

811
00:41:32,280 --> 00:41:34,680
Speaker 2: rule than men were, I'm sure. The fact that Rome

812
00:41:34,760 --> 00:41:37,120
Speaker 2: was patriarchal, while the Celts, especially in Britain and Ireland,

813
00:41:37,160 --> 00:41:40,680
Speaker 2: according to one source, had much more quality between the genders.

814
00:41:41,400 --> 00:41:44,879
Speaker 2: So the entire nation of the Icni rose up, which

815
00:41:44,960 --> 00:41:47,120
Speaker 2: was one of the largest and most important tribes, not

816
00:41:47,160 --> 00:41:49,440
Speaker 2: as important as the Briganti, who I didn't write into

817
00:41:49,440 --> 00:41:53,879
Speaker 2: my script, who are immediately to the west. But it's

818
00:41:53,920 --> 00:41:57,120
Speaker 2: not just the Icni who rise up. All sorts of

819
00:41:57,160 --> 00:42:02,000
Speaker 2: ostensibly conquered people started revolting, most importantly the neighboring tribe

820
00:42:02,040 --> 00:42:03,799
Speaker 2: or nation, depending on which his story and you read

821
00:42:04,360 --> 00:42:08,719
Speaker 2: the Trinvantes. While the Trinavantes have a Celtic sounding name,

822
00:42:08,960 --> 00:42:13,120
Speaker 2: the Icna, his name is neither Celtic, nor Roman nor Germanic.

823
00:42:13,640 --> 00:42:17,000
Speaker 2: No one knows where that shit comes from. It's probably

824
00:42:17,040 --> 00:42:18,280
Speaker 2: just pre Celtic.

825
00:42:17,920 --> 00:42:21,080
Speaker 3: Britain, Yeah, left over from when the sea people's were

826
00:42:21,080 --> 00:42:22,600
Speaker 3: doing their Bronze age nonsense.

827
00:42:22,960 --> 00:42:23,799
Speaker 2: And I love that shit.

828
00:42:24,000 --> 00:42:26,920
Speaker 3: I love that shit. Yeah, we got all these tribes

829
00:42:27,280 --> 00:42:30,680
Speaker 3: who have a blurry gender line. We're just like they

830
00:42:30,719 --> 00:42:34,759
Speaker 3: fucking did what And words starts spreading around and this

831
00:42:34,960 --> 00:42:37,640
Speaker 3: is kind of like this seems to be like the

832
00:42:37,680 --> 00:42:39,799
Speaker 3: straw that breaks the camel's back of just like, We're

833
00:42:39,840 --> 00:42:42,520
Speaker 3: fucking done with these goddamn Italians coming over here telling

834
00:42:42,600 --> 00:42:45,759
Speaker 3: us how to do our mud farming. Yeah, bringing big

835
00:42:45,880 --> 00:42:47,880
Speaker 3: ulafhants to try and scare me. I'm not scared of

836
00:42:47,920 --> 00:42:49,000
Speaker 3: an ulafant.

837
00:42:49,440 --> 00:42:51,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, I ain't scared of shit. I paint my body

838
00:42:51,840 --> 00:42:53,480
Speaker 2: blue and like go into trances.

839
00:42:53,480 --> 00:42:57,120
Speaker 3: Probably I go into trances. I'm carrying thousand pounds stones

840
00:42:57,160 --> 00:42:58,960
Speaker 3: to put them on top of other stones. You don't

841
00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:00,160
Speaker 3: know what I'm capable of.

842
00:43:01,520 --> 00:43:04,520
Speaker 2: And honestly, like it's interesting later I'll talk about this.

843
00:43:04,600 --> 00:43:07,399
Speaker 2: But there's like the noble savage take that like some

844
00:43:07,440 --> 00:43:09,960
Speaker 2: Greeks would have of the Celts. But then there's this

845
00:43:10,080 --> 00:43:14,719
Speaker 2: other one called the hard primitive, which is this assumption

846
00:43:14,840 --> 00:43:18,520
Speaker 2: that the like barbarian people are like just so much

847
00:43:18,640 --> 00:43:22,680
Speaker 2: less effeminate and like more like strong, and they just

848
00:43:22,719 --> 00:43:25,799
Speaker 2: eat dirt and they can do fucking anything less of.

849
00:43:25,840 --> 00:43:29,919
Speaker 3: Nutrition and dirt. Yeah, anyway, I mean, the real thing

850
00:43:30,000 --> 00:43:33,080
Speaker 3: is to me, and I'm even less of a Papa historian,

851
00:43:33,120 --> 00:43:36,759
Speaker 3: but it's like when you're not going in on a

852
00:43:36,880 --> 00:43:41,600
Speaker 3: centralized authority with this like strict gender dynamics and you're

853
00:43:41,680 --> 00:43:44,279
Speaker 3: kind of letting everybody have a say and like just

854
00:43:44,280 --> 00:43:47,840
Speaker 3: spreading ideas around, pollinating that shit without attention to the

855
00:43:47,960 --> 00:43:53,200
Speaker 3: gender or you know, anything but a vague paganism type religion,

856
00:43:53,280 --> 00:43:58,759
Speaker 3: You're gonna get some weird, hearty, brave people, I know.

857
00:43:58,840 --> 00:44:00,360
Speaker 2: And so it's like the problem I have with the

858
00:44:00,360 --> 00:44:03,479
Speaker 2: hard primitive thing is it's like trying to make it masculinist, right,

859
00:44:03,560 --> 00:44:05,680
Speaker 2: because it's like written by people who are like sad,

860
00:44:05,800 --> 00:44:09,120
Speaker 2: Rome is gone effeminate and weak, you know, And there

861
00:44:09,160 --> 00:44:13,839
Speaker 2: are gender roles within Celtic society, but they're much more variable. Yeah,

862
00:44:13,840 --> 00:44:19,080
Speaker 2: and also argued about today anyway. Okay, so the trade Avantes,

863
00:44:19,160 --> 00:44:21,360
Speaker 2: the other one of these other tribes or nations or

864
00:44:21,400 --> 00:44:23,799
Speaker 2: whatever the fuck, they have their own history going on

865
00:44:23,840 --> 00:44:25,760
Speaker 2: of how they related to Rome, and it's too tangly

866
00:44:25,800 --> 00:44:28,240
Speaker 2: to get into, but they had recently become second class

867
00:44:28,239 --> 00:44:30,840
Speaker 2: citizens in their own territory because Taylor's all this time

868
00:44:31,160 --> 00:44:34,200
Speaker 2: Romans had moved another Celtic group into their area and

869
00:44:34,239 --> 00:44:36,520
Speaker 2: we're like, nah, y'all like more important, Like we're the

870
00:44:36,560 --> 00:44:39,640
Speaker 2: most important, y'all are next, and then like fuck these guys, right,

871
00:44:40,160 --> 00:44:45,000
Speaker 2: you know. And just as importantly, Romans had gone and

872
00:44:45,080 --> 00:44:50,360
Speaker 2: built this sort of model town, this frontier outpost, this settlement,

873
00:44:50,520 --> 00:44:54,960
Speaker 2: this like West Bank ash shit, specifically for Roman veterans

874
00:44:55,000 --> 00:44:58,760
Speaker 2: to live in, and it was this symbol of culture

875
00:44:58,800 --> 00:45:02,160
Speaker 2: and civilization. They go fuck you to the Britons.

876
00:45:02,360 --> 00:45:06,359
Speaker 3: So like not really like a Potempkin village kind of like, well,

877
00:45:06,400 --> 00:45:07,880
Speaker 3: I was going to say, like a cop city, but

878
00:45:07,920 --> 00:45:09,960
Speaker 3: it's all just like veterans of just like, look what

879
00:45:10,040 --> 00:45:13,640
Speaker 3: you could be if you just were putting nero on

880
00:45:13,680 --> 00:45:14,560
Speaker 3: your money.

881
00:45:14,080 --> 00:45:15,200
Speaker 2: The proper civilized.

882
00:45:15,360 --> 00:45:19,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, you just have big bathtubs and whatever made Rome beautiful.

883
00:45:20,080 --> 00:45:21,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's like their whole thing is like, we

884
00:45:21,640 --> 00:45:24,360
Speaker 2: can be rich, right, yeah, don't you want to? And

885
00:45:24,400 --> 00:45:27,000
Speaker 2: we get rich by conquering people. And they're like really

886
00:45:27,080 --> 00:45:28,080
Speaker 2: upfront about it, you know.

887
00:45:28,320 --> 00:45:28,960
Speaker 3: Yeah.

888
00:45:29,040 --> 00:45:32,839
Speaker 2: And it's a town that's currently called Colchester, but at

889
00:45:32,840 --> 00:45:35,920
Speaker 2: the time it was cameload and a numb way better.

890
00:45:36,120 --> 00:45:38,719
Speaker 2: I'm gonna call it Colchester going forward. Unfortunately though, because

891
00:45:38,719 --> 00:45:41,040
Speaker 2: that's easier for me to pronounce, I'll give it a shot.

892
00:45:41,440 --> 00:45:43,560
Speaker 3: So these guys are in Coleslaw or whatever the fuck

893
00:45:43,640 --> 00:45:44,719
Speaker 3: you said. Camelodia.

894
00:45:45,200 --> 00:45:47,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're in Camelodia. Actually, people thought it was where

895
00:45:47,719 --> 00:45:49,719
Speaker 2: Camelot was for a while, but now people think that

896
00:45:49,760 --> 00:45:51,680
Speaker 2: it was the place to where Camelot was. Yeah. No,

897
00:45:52,600 --> 00:45:56,000
Speaker 2: And this town, Camelodia, it's like twelve years old by

898
00:45:56,000 --> 00:45:57,799
Speaker 2: the time this revolt breaks out. It was built in

899
00:45:57,840 --> 00:46:00,279
Speaker 2: the winter of forty eight to forty nine, and the

900
00:46:00,280 --> 00:46:03,600
Speaker 2: only major building. There is a Temple of Victoria dedicated

901
00:46:03,640 --> 00:46:06,960
Speaker 2: to Victoria, the Roman goddess of victory. They are not

902
00:46:07,120 --> 00:46:08,640
Speaker 2: subtle nahmers, the Romans.

903
00:46:08,640 --> 00:46:11,520
Speaker 1: You gotta be some kind of fucked up that twelve

904
00:46:11,560 --> 00:46:15,879
Speaker 1: years in people are like, whoa, this is not it.

905
00:46:16,080 --> 00:46:17,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're gonna fuck you up.

906
00:46:18,320 --> 00:46:19,320
Speaker 1: Yeah.

907
00:46:19,360 --> 00:46:21,799
Speaker 3: Look, we've had twelve years to decide, and actually we've

908
00:46:21,840 --> 00:46:24,320
Speaker 3: decided fuck you exactly.

909
00:46:25,440 --> 00:46:28,560
Speaker 2: That's pretty much what happens. So the rebels they march

910
00:46:28,600 --> 00:46:31,959
Speaker 2: on Cameloadinum and they burn that shit to the ground. Yes,

911
00:46:32,640 --> 00:46:34,600
Speaker 2: and the veterans who live there hole up in the

912
00:46:34,640 --> 00:46:38,640
Speaker 2: temple for a two day siege before losing badly. And

913
00:46:38,719 --> 00:46:42,279
Speaker 2: we know that the rebels burned cameloading them because there's

914
00:46:42,280 --> 00:46:44,839
Speaker 2: an archaeological record of it. There's like literally like.

915
00:46:44,920 --> 00:46:46,319
Speaker 3: Just a layer of ash.

916
00:46:46,480 --> 00:46:50,560
Speaker 2: N Yeah, what there isn't a record of in that

917
00:46:50,680 --> 00:46:56,040
Speaker 2: layer of ashes is slaughter. There's not human remains in

918
00:46:56,120 --> 00:46:57,080
Speaker 2: the burned layer.

919
00:46:57,480 --> 00:46:58,320
Speaker 3: WHOA.

920
00:46:58,560 --> 00:47:02,359
Speaker 2: Three things could have happened before. One the Romans could

921
00:47:02,360 --> 00:47:04,440
Speaker 2: have fucked off, seen them comeing and gotten the hell out.

922
00:47:04,760 --> 00:47:08,600
Speaker 2: Two the Celts might have let the Romans escape. Three

923
00:47:08,880 --> 00:47:11,280
Speaker 2: they might have taken them all captive and done terrible

924
00:47:11,280 --> 00:47:14,080
Speaker 2: things to them or whatever. And four if they had

925
00:47:14,160 --> 00:47:17,359
Speaker 2: all died within the temple, that temple was then later

926
00:47:17,440 --> 00:47:22,439
Speaker 2: like cleaned up, right, But there is a strong archaeological

927
00:47:22,560 --> 00:47:27,120
Speaker 2: argument to make that these rebels didn't wholesale slaughter people.

928
00:47:27,640 --> 00:47:30,440
Speaker 3: I got a feeling we'll get into this more next episode.

929
00:47:30,600 --> 00:47:32,719
Speaker 3: We was like, there's more than just like, no, we

930
00:47:32,719 --> 00:47:36,080
Speaker 3: didn't find any bones. So these guys seemed basically pacifists,

931
00:47:36,120 --> 00:47:38,239
Speaker 3: just you know, arsonist pacifists. How about that?

932
00:47:39,239 --> 00:47:41,960
Speaker 2: And so then the revolt spreads and it's mostly this

933
00:47:42,000 --> 00:47:47,640
Speaker 2: big force led by Budecai, but it's also partly small

934
00:47:47,680 --> 00:47:50,280
Speaker 2: gorilla groups that will just show up and kill Roman settlers.

935
00:47:50,360 --> 00:47:52,319
Speaker 2: So some of that is happening. They're just like people

936
00:47:52,400 --> 00:47:54,600
Speaker 2: being like, get a fuck out of Britain, We're gonna

937
00:47:54,680 --> 00:47:58,600
Speaker 2: kill you, you know. After the revolt broke out, the imperial

938
00:47:58,640 --> 00:48:03,080
Speaker 2: governor of the area came Canassis fled to Gaul and

939
00:48:03,200 --> 00:48:10,480
Speaker 2: was like, it's lost, We've lost Britain. Give up runaways. Yeah.

940
00:48:10,560 --> 00:48:16,959
Speaker 2: The rebels then marched on Londonium akaa London what which

941
00:48:16,960 --> 00:48:20,040
Speaker 2: had been built in forty seven AD, so not much older.

942
00:48:20,560 --> 00:48:22,480
Speaker 1: Londinium sounds real dumb.

943
00:48:23,440 --> 00:48:27,440
Speaker 2: I know. It's like if steampunks tried to out steampunk London.

944
00:48:28,040 --> 00:48:31,520
Speaker 3: Wow, that's exactly what it's like if London just had

945
00:48:31,560 --> 00:48:35,160
Speaker 3: dirigibles behind Big Ben. Every single time you saw it,

946
00:48:35,440 --> 00:48:36,799
Speaker 3: it was Londonium all over.

947
00:48:36,920 --> 00:48:44,360
Speaker 1: I'm gonna start calling you Magdinium, Magdinius, thank you, Magdinious.

948
00:48:46,800 --> 00:48:50,959
Speaker 2: That's my my new Roman imperial name. Yes, Magius, because

949
00:48:51,000 --> 00:48:54,400
Speaker 2: you need one of those. I know. I'm really into Rome.

950
00:48:55,000 --> 00:48:57,120
Speaker 1: Oh my god, Oh my.

951
00:48:57,040 --> 00:49:00,400
Speaker 3: God, I guess I owe is. Well, it's it's Greek.

952
00:49:00,960 --> 00:49:03,920
Speaker 3: It's Greek and uh and the Romans took everything from

953
00:49:03,920 --> 00:49:04,720
Speaker 3: the Greeks already.

954
00:49:04,719 --> 00:49:10,959
Speaker 1: Why not that Iodidius Iodineus, that's Iodius.

955
00:49:11,200 --> 00:49:14,000
Speaker 3: Refer to me by my proper title, the complicated one.

956
00:49:14,040 --> 00:49:16,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, pray tour. I don't know to pray tours. Pray

957
00:49:16,719 --> 00:49:16,920
Speaker 2: to me.

958
00:49:17,600 --> 00:49:18,880
Speaker 3: I'm going to pray to her all along.

959
00:49:21,480 --> 00:49:24,960
Speaker 2: So they show up and they burn London to the ground. Yes, good,

960
00:49:25,400 --> 00:49:29,239
Speaker 2: no more London. They do rebuild it later, but.

961
00:49:29,200 --> 00:49:31,560
Speaker 3: Whatever, Oh why do you have to tell me there's a.

962
00:49:31,520 --> 00:49:35,839
Speaker 2: Town called London our reality? And then Roman reinforcements had

963
00:49:35,880 --> 00:49:38,400
Speaker 2: actually shown up on the island at this point, but

964
00:49:38,480 --> 00:49:41,680
Speaker 2: they like look and they see this fucking like hundreds

965
00:49:41,680 --> 00:49:45,640
Speaker 2: of thousands of people marching on London and they're like, Nah,

966
00:49:46,200 --> 00:49:46,839
Speaker 2: this ain't it.

967
00:49:47,400 --> 00:49:49,839
Speaker 3: Get on their cell phone, Nero, you're not gonna believe this.

968
00:49:50,000 --> 00:49:53,600
Speaker 3: The storm we're stuck in. We're stuck in Marseille.

969
00:49:54,120 --> 00:49:57,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, Tonally, Yeah, I got Tommy. It can't go to

970
00:49:57,200 --> 00:49:57,720
Speaker 2: work today.

971
00:49:58,280 --> 00:50:00,240
Speaker 3: Everyone's got Tommy as we got bad.

972
00:50:01,680 --> 00:50:05,440
Speaker 2: Yeah we thought it was corn, but that actually hasn't

973
00:50:05,440 --> 00:50:09,400
Speaker 2: reached us yet. So either basically no one was slaughtered

974
00:50:09,600 --> 00:50:13,759
Speaker 2: or seventy thousand innocent settlers were slaughtered, depending on whether

975
00:50:13,760 --> 00:50:18,040
Speaker 2: you believe the archaeological record or the Roman historians lost

976
00:50:18,040 --> 00:50:23,400
Speaker 2: of time. Now, the rebels had one big tactical problem.

977
00:50:23,880 --> 00:50:27,799
Speaker 2: They were largely unarmed. And this isn't because they were like,

978
00:50:28,280 --> 00:50:32,279
Speaker 2: we're so peaceful, we never had weapons. And it's not

979
00:50:32,320 --> 00:50:34,799
Speaker 2: even that they were like technologically backwards, although they did

980
00:50:34,800 --> 00:50:37,920
Speaker 2: not have the same level of technology as Rome. But

981
00:50:38,080 --> 00:50:42,239
Speaker 2: during the peace process of the last couple decades, the

982
00:50:42,320 --> 00:50:46,000
Speaker 2: local kings had let their people wind up disarmed. So

983
00:50:46,800 --> 00:50:48,600
Speaker 2: one lesson you can see over and over and over

984
00:50:48,640 --> 00:50:53,319
Speaker 2: again from history. Never let anyone disarm you because I

985
00:50:53,360 --> 00:50:56,040
Speaker 2: think I might be out on a limb here. I'm

986
00:50:56,080 --> 00:50:59,280
Speaker 2: doing a lot of limb climbing. I think it's possible

987
00:51:00,080 --> 00:51:02,200
Speaker 2: that if the IC and I hadn't had a boot

988
00:51:02,200 --> 00:51:06,160
Speaker 2: liquor king who disarmed them, Rome would have not successfully

989
00:51:06,600 --> 00:51:09,520
Speaker 2: like stayed the rulers for hundreds of years.

990
00:51:09,760 --> 00:51:11,919
Speaker 3: Oh, this is going to be what keeps me awake

991
00:51:11,920 --> 00:51:15,200
Speaker 3: at night. And they all involve fucking up Rome because

992
00:51:15,280 --> 00:51:18,400
Speaker 3: right now, I think, what if Kubla Khan made it

993
00:51:18,440 --> 00:51:20,279
Speaker 3: all the way to Rome? What if you made it

994
00:51:20,320 --> 00:51:22,160
Speaker 3: all the way to the Vatican because he heard about

995
00:51:22,160 --> 00:51:24,359
Speaker 3: this pope and he was like, that's die, I'll hit

996
00:51:24,520 --> 00:51:26,759
Speaker 3: that at all. And then I don't know if something

997
00:51:26,800 --> 00:51:28,440
Speaker 3: happened and they had to go back, and I'm like, ooh,

998
00:51:28,560 --> 00:51:30,359
Speaker 3: just a couple more kilometers, man.

999
00:51:30,920 --> 00:51:34,279
Speaker 2: I'm like vaguely considering that the next couple months are

1000
00:51:34,320 --> 00:51:36,480
Speaker 2: going to be like Margaret talks about people who go

1001
00:51:36,520 --> 00:51:40,200
Speaker 2: fuck up Rome or like try to like resistance to

1002
00:51:40,280 --> 00:51:41,400
Speaker 2: early colonialism.

1003
00:51:41,880 --> 00:51:44,080
Speaker 3: Tune in, folks, it's going to be the anti Rome

1004
00:51:44,160 --> 00:51:47,319
Speaker 3: couple of months. Yeah, men who think about nothing but

1005
00:51:47,440 --> 00:51:49,440
Speaker 3: Rome are steaming already.

1006
00:51:49,320 --> 00:51:50,920
Speaker 2: I know. But what's funny is that last week was

1007
00:51:50,920 --> 00:51:53,080
Speaker 2: actually about a bunch of Romans. It was about the Galley,

1008
00:51:53,200 --> 00:51:55,920
Speaker 2: the trans women who were priestesses and were ostracized within

1009
00:51:56,080 --> 00:51:59,240
Speaker 2: Roman culture. Because once again, it's not about every Roman

1010
00:51:59,320 --> 00:52:02,719
Speaker 2: is bad. It is about systems of government and colonial expansion.

1011
00:52:03,120 --> 00:52:05,719
Speaker 3: Yes, which is why I'm trying to hang back on

1012
00:52:05,760 --> 00:52:09,600
Speaker 3: my searing hatred of the British because not British people,

1013
00:52:09,680 --> 00:52:11,520
Speaker 3: you know, because I love you out there, limis.

1014
00:52:11,680 --> 00:52:14,319
Speaker 2: Actually it's a they are the anti colonial force in

1015
00:52:14,320 --> 00:52:16,920
Speaker 2: this particular story, and that is important thing to remember.

1016
00:52:17,160 --> 00:52:20,799
Speaker 3: That's true, guys, remember your history return with a v Right.

1017
00:52:21,600 --> 00:52:26,600
Speaker 2: They burned another town via Lamium, which is now Saint Agnes.

1018
00:52:26,640 --> 00:52:28,480
Speaker 2: I think it's saying something and I forgot to write

1019
00:52:28,480 --> 00:52:31,520
Speaker 2: that into my script. It's this town that the Roman

1020
00:52:31,600 --> 00:52:35,000
Speaker 2: record is like they burned it all, and the archaeological

1021
00:52:35,040 --> 00:52:37,960
Speaker 2: record is like they burned a couple places, like kind

1022
00:52:37,960 --> 00:52:41,840
Speaker 2: of where the rich people lived, and like basically this

1023
00:52:42,000 --> 00:52:44,960
Speaker 2: is also an act of class warfare. This is not

1024
00:52:45,120 --> 00:52:47,799
Speaker 2: just we hate the Romans the invaders. They are, let's

1025
00:52:47,840 --> 00:52:51,600
Speaker 2: fuck up the rich. But eventually the Roman army caught

1026
00:52:51,680 --> 00:52:54,239
Speaker 2: up with the rebels. There was a big fuck off,

1027
00:52:54,280 --> 00:52:59,600
Speaker 2: fantastic last stand. The rebels, who were possibly mostly women

1028
00:52:59,719 --> 00:53:04,080
Speaker 2: at it depends on how you're going to interpret the sources.

1029
00:53:04,920 --> 00:53:09,440
Speaker 2: They greatly outnumbered the Romans, but the Romans had weapons

1030
00:53:09,440 --> 00:53:12,439
Speaker 2: in armor and discipline, which are three things that are

1031
00:53:12,480 --> 00:53:16,120
Speaker 2: really useful if you're doing open battle instead of guerrilla tactics.

1032
00:53:17,160 --> 00:53:22,160
Speaker 2: And the Icini lost. Budekai died shortly after of illness

1033
00:53:22,200 --> 00:53:26,960
Speaker 2: or suicide, and the revolt was put down, but Britain

1034
00:53:27,080 --> 00:53:31,160
Speaker 2: was not tamed. All the available Roman soldiers were needed

1035
00:53:31,160 --> 00:53:35,160
Speaker 2: to keep the conquered areas conquered, and they just never

1036
00:53:35,280 --> 00:53:38,080
Speaker 2: as expanded as far north into Scotland as they wanted.

1037
00:53:38,360 --> 00:53:43,160
Speaker 2: They never got west into Ireland, and the fighty spirit

1038
00:53:43,239 --> 00:53:47,719
Speaker 2: of the Celts saved Celtic culture. But when we come

1039
00:53:47,760 --> 00:53:50,480
Speaker 2: back on Wednesday, I'm going to get into the Roman

1040
00:53:50,480 --> 00:53:53,360
Speaker 2: accounts of this, and it's going to have sweet, sweet

1041
00:53:53,440 --> 00:53:57,719
Speaker 2: details about pagan rites and battle speeches, and I'm going

1042
00:53:57,800 --> 00:53:59,600
Speaker 2: to make a wild claim about gender.

1043
00:54:00,320 --> 00:54:02,759
Speaker 3: Yes, Oh, I cannot wait, and I can't wait to

1044
00:54:02,800 --> 00:54:05,680
Speaker 3: hear about all these murdering ladies. What a time we're

1045
00:54:05,680 --> 00:54:08,040
Speaker 3: going to have. Listener, you and me, come on.

1046
00:54:10,120 --> 00:54:14,239
Speaker 2: But what if people are like I like hearing that ionium?

1047
00:54:14,360 --> 00:54:17,160
Speaker 2: What does praterer ionium do? And what if I want

1048
00:54:17,160 --> 00:54:20,879
Speaker 2: to listen to more of prader Ionium talking on podcasts

1049
00:54:20,880 --> 00:54:25,279
Speaker 2: between now and Wednesday. Do you have any suggestions about

1050
00:54:25,280 --> 00:54:27,040
Speaker 2: where people might be able to hear you have?

1051
00:54:27,160 --> 00:54:29,360
Speaker 3: I got good news for you. It just so happens

1052
00:54:29,400 --> 00:54:32,960
Speaker 3: that I'm on a podcast with who is this? Margaret Kiljoy?

1053
00:54:33,400 --> 00:54:34,000
Speaker 2: Wow What?

1054
00:54:34,960 --> 00:54:39,879
Speaker 3: And Robert Evans and Hazel Acasia and our friend Jason Bollman. Yes,

1055
00:54:40,280 --> 00:54:46,319
Speaker 3: mister Pathfinder himself is doing a tt RPG podcast for

1056
00:54:46,400 --> 00:54:50,040
Speaker 3: cool Zone Media. Ever heard of it? It's this and

1057
00:54:50,120 --> 00:54:54,040
Speaker 3: it's probably still actively coming out when this comes out. Yeah,

1058
00:54:54,320 --> 00:54:56,560
Speaker 3: get in there on the on the book Club feed,

1059
00:54:56,600 --> 00:54:58,879
Speaker 3: on the it could happen here feed, and.

1060
00:54:58,880 --> 00:55:00,600
Speaker 2: On this very feed, on this.

1061
00:55:00,760 --> 00:55:04,000
Speaker 3: Very feed, you hear before your ears. I also do

1062
00:55:04,040 --> 00:55:07,360
Speaker 3: a podcast called The Spectacle. It's kind of like what

1063
00:55:07,560 --> 00:55:11,560
Speaker 3: if there was a serious anarchist podcast, but for people

1064
00:55:11,600 --> 00:55:13,440
Speaker 3: who just wanted to be stupid for a while and

1065
00:55:13,440 --> 00:55:15,879
Speaker 3: talk about movies and video games. And you can find

1066
00:55:15,920 --> 00:55:19,080
Speaker 3: me on the internet at bum Lung. I might have

1067
00:55:19,080 --> 00:55:22,160
Speaker 3: a new comic by the time this comes out. Oh shit,

1068
00:55:22,600 --> 00:55:24,800
Speaker 3: it's not all Biga do Crime. I got other stuff,

1069
00:55:24,920 --> 00:55:28,000
Speaker 3: arguably better stuff, but you know, I'll dance with the

1070
00:55:28,040 --> 00:55:31,680
Speaker 3: girl who brought me. I love big crime around here.

1071
00:55:32,440 --> 00:55:34,560
Speaker 1: Do you still have an Etsy store that people can

1072
00:55:34,680 --> 00:55:35,239
Speaker 1: shop at?

1073
00:55:35,640 --> 00:55:37,759
Speaker 3: I O yes, and I'm trying to make my own

1074
00:55:37,800 --> 00:55:40,399
Speaker 3: shop soon. But it's still all over on Etsy. Once

1075
00:55:40,400 --> 00:55:43,640
Speaker 3: I figure out how a computer works, it's over for ittzy.

1076
00:55:43,760 --> 00:55:45,880
Speaker 3: But yeah, you can get prints, you can get comics.

1077
00:55:46,280 --> 00:55:47,560
Speaker 3: I got all kinds of shit for you.

1078
00:55:47,840 --> 00:55:48,880
Speaker 2: Half my t shirts.

1079
00:55:49,080 --> 00:55:49,840
Speaker 1: What's it called?

1080
00:55:50,200 --> 00:55:56,360
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, Etsy dot com slash bum lung just bum lung,

1081
00:55:57,120 --> 00:55:58,439
Speaker 3: like a lung that doesn't want to work.

1082
00:55:59,000 --> 00:56:00,680
Speaker 1: Sensational all right?

1083
00:56:01,080 --> 00:56:03,880
Speaker 2: And I want to plug Cooler Zone Media, which is

1084
00:56:04,040 --> 00:56:06,239
Speaker 2: the way to listen to this podcast and all of

1085
00:56:06,280 --> 00:56:09,600
Speaker 2: the other Coolzone Media podcasts without ads. And so that

1086
00:56:09,640 --> 00:56:11,479
Speaker 2: means you can listen to all your favorite podcasts without

1087
00:56:11,480 --> 00:56:16,439
Speaker 2: ads because the Spectacle doesn't have ads already. So that's

1088
00:56:16,520 --> 00:56:21,759
Speaker 2: all the podcasts. And also, Sophia anything any new good

1089
00:56:21,840 --> 00:56:27,759
Speaker 2: coolzone media stuff? What if people want something that's off

1090
00:56:27,800 --> 00:56:30,000
Speaker 2: of cool Zone Media but is by a dear friend

1091
00:56:30,000 --> 00:56:32,200
Speaker 2: of cool Zone Media about the Satanic Panic? Do you

1092
00:56:32,200 --> 00:56:33,040
Speaker 2: have any suggestions?

1093
00:56:33,480 --> 00:56:36,320
Speaker 1: Are you talking about my dear friend Sarah Marshall's new podcasts?

1094
00:56:37,160 --> 00:56:40,640
Speaker 1: I am oh it's called the devil you know.

1095
00:56:41,200 --> 00:56:44,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's about the Satanic Panic and it will help

1096
00:56:45,080 --> 00:56:48,120
Speaker 2: answer the question of how evil is the past only

1097
00:56:48,239 --> 00:56:49,240
Speaker 2: just about the nineteen eighties.

1098
00:56:49,239 --> 00:56:51,160
Speaker 1: Are you started listening to it yet, Magpie?

1099
00:56:51,560 --> 00:56:53,560
Speaker 2: No, I haven't had any time for podcasts, which is

1100
00:56:53,560 --> 00:56:57,319
Speaker 2: so weird. I like, normally listen to so many podcasts,

1101
00:56:57,360 --> 00:57:00,400
Speaker 2: and right now I have kind of time for nothing

1102
00:57:00,440 --> 00:57:02,839
Speaker 2: but writing until the end of the year because I'm

1103
00:57:02,840 --> 00:57:05,239
Speaker 2: on a fuck ton of deadlines and I am insane.

1104
00:57:06,080 --> 00:57:06,920
Speaker 1: Wait to binge it.

1105
00:57:07,400 --> 00:57:09,000
Speaker 2: I am going to binge it. It's going to be

1106
00:57:09,040 --> 00:57:10,600
Speaker 2: so good. I'm going to go on a long drive

1107
00:57:10,680 --> 00:57:12,400
Speaker 2: and I'm going to learn all about the Satanic Panic

1108
00:57:12,440 --> 00:57:14,840
Speaker 2: and I'm going to show up and just talk about

1109
00:57:14,840 --> 00:57:16,760
Speaker 2: that to all my friends and they're going to love me.

1110
00:57:17,240 --> 00:57:19,000
Speaker 1: I love that for you. I want to plug this

1111
00:57:19,120 --> 00:57:23,240
Speaker 1: sticker on Io's head seat that I really like that

1112
00:57:23,400 --> 00:57:24,880
Speaker 1: just says get off the Internet.

1113
00:57:26,280 --> 00:57:31,240
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, that's good advice. I made that just for me,

1114
00:57:31,560 --> 00:57:34,520
Speaker 3: and I feel like other people other people have gotten

1115
00:57:34,560 --> 00:57:34,960
Speaker 3: some use that.

1116
00:57:35,240 --> 00:57:36,120
Speaker 2: I really like that.

1117
00:57:36,240 --> 00:57:38,120
Speaker 1: I'm going to actually buy that right now.

1118
00:57:39,120 --> 00:57:41,000
Speaker 3: I'll send you one thank you though.

1119
00:57:41,120 --> 00:57:43,720
Speaker 1: Oh, I'm going to buy it right now. I want

1120
00:57:44,360 --> 00:57:45,520
Speaker 1: you want it.

1121
00:57:47,640 --> 00:57:51,000
Speaker 2: Much appreciated, and I will see all of you all

1122
00:57:51,040 --> 00:57:53,200
Speaker 2: on Wednesday. Will actually so be an io. I'll see

1123
00:57:53,200 --> 00:57:55,360
Speaker 2: you in about five minutes, but everyone else I will

1124
00:57:55,560 --> 00:58:00,800
Speaker 2: see metaphorically on Wednesday.

1125
00:58:03,000 --> 00:58:05,480
Speaker 1: Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff is a production of

1126
00:58:05,520 --> 00:58:08,640
Speaker 1: cool Zone Media. For more podcasts and fool Zone Media,

1127
00:58:08,800 --> 00:58:12,000
Speaker 1: visit our website Goolezonemedia dot com, or check us out

1128
00:58:12,120 --> 00:58:14,640
Speaker 1: on the five or radio app, hop a Podcasts, or

1129
00:58:14,640 --> 00:58:16,280
Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts.