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Speaker 1: Hey everyone, we want to let you know and remind

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Speaker 1: you that our first ever Stuff you Should Know episode

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and the episode is vinyl. Our episode on Vinyl

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Speaker 2: is now available on vinyl. If you can wrap your

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Speaker 2: heads around that.

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Speaker 1: physical media.

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Speaker 2: Finally, Yeah, and they make a great holiday gift for

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Speaker 1: They ship out on October twentieth. Welcome to Stuff you

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Speaker 1: Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hey everybody, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark,

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Speaker 2: There's Charles W. Chuck Bryant. Jerry's here too, and this

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Speaker 2: is Stuff you Should Know. Let's go. How do you

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Speaker 2: like that one?

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Speaker 1: I did? I'd also like his title that Livia gave

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Speaker 1: this one. Yes, it's very fun. Can I read it?

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Speaker 2: Sure?

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Speaker 1: The Night that Transformed Bear human relations.

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Speaker 2: It's pretty straightforward and says everything you need to say.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's actually sadly very accurate.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. And yet despite it being that straightforward, there's a

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Speaker 2: pretty interesting story hidden amid those letters.

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Speaker 1: Sounds like a crossword clue it does.

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Speaker 2: I feel like we should tell that story now or else? Really?

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Speaker 2: What are we doing here? Chuck?

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Speaker 1: All right, well, I think this is one of those

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Speaker 1: Unfortunately we can't just sort of play out as a

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Speaker 1: teaser to reveal what happens. I think we kind of

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Speaker 1: need to say what actually happened and then tell that story. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: all right, did you want to tease this thing out?

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Speaker 2: No, and justult.

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Speaker 1: Because what we're talking about is a very sad night

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Speaker 1: August of nineteen sixty seven when two young women, two

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Speaker 1: nineteen year old women were killed by two and here's

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Speaker 1: the kicker, two different bears in two different places in

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Speaker 1: the same National park. If it was one bear that

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Speaker 1: just went crazy or something and they were all camping together,

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Speaker 1: that would be obviously tragic, but not like, Hey, we

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Speaker 1: need to really look at what's going on here. And

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Speaker 1: that's what happened, because it was two bears in two places.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And the reason why it was such a kicker

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Speaker 2: is because in the fifty seven years leading up to

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Speaker 2: that that Glacier National Park was a national park, only

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Speaker 2: three other people had ever been killed by grizzly bears.

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Speaker 2: And then all of a sudden, it went from three

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Speaker 2: people in fifty seven years to two women in two

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Speaker 2: separate incidents in one night. That is crazy, and it

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Speaker 2: really did kick off this a national conversation about should

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Speaker 2: grizzly bears stay alive as a species because we like

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Speaker 2: living in national parks? Do we have the right to

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Speaker 2: do that kind of thing. It's a pretty interesting story.

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Speaker 2: It's got a lot of facets to it. And I

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Speaker 2: feel like we should talk a little bit about grizzly

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Speaker 2: bears first, because I didn't realize that they were just

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Speaker 2: a subspecies of brown bear, although that makes a lot

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Speaker 2: of sense.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, grizzlies are brown bears. They are generally darker than

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Speaker 1: brown bears in coloring. They're generally smaller. They can be

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Speaker 1: you know, a couple hundred pounds up to about six hundred,

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Speaker 1: but they And it's interesting here because I think it

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Speaker 1: depends on where you live and here you ask. Like,

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Speaker 1: usually brown bears are called brown bears. When they're more coastal,

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Speaker 1: like the ones you see like grabbing that salmon out

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Speaker 1: of the river, you would call a brown bear. I

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Speaker 1: thought that was a grizzly, whereas if you live inland

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Speaker 1: and you're a bear, a brown bear, you're called a grizzly.

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Speaker 1: But then I also saw people talking about coastal grizzlies,

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Speaker 1: so it may be one of those names is just

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Speaker 1: sort of been tacked onto a lot of kind of

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Speaker 1: brown bears.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's just, you know, it's confusing.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but they're brown bears.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, they're brown bears, which makes them, you know, and

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Speaker 2: they're relatively small brown bear. There's a type of brown

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Speaker 2: bear called a kodiak that gets up to ten feet

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Speaker 2: tall when it's standing on its hind legs.

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Speaker 1: No, thank you.

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Speaker 2: Grizzlies are not nearly that big, but they're still big enough.

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Speaker 2: I mean, the males can get up to about six

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Speaker 2: hundred pounds, and there used to be a lot more

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Speaker 2: of them than there are today. The early nineteenth century,

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Speaker 2: I think, I think around the time of Lewis and

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Speaker 2: Clark there was an estimated fifty thousand to one hundred

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Speaker 2: thousand grizzly bears. They went all the way from Canada

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Speaker 2: down to Mexico. They were in every what's now states

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Speaker 2: along the West, all the way over to the Great Plains.

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Speaker 2: There was a ton of them. And then as we

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Speaker 2: started to move out there, we meaning white American settlers

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Speaker 2: and colonists. Part of what that whole West were expansion

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Speaker 2: included was not just wiping out Native Americans, it was

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Speaker 2: also wiping out large carnivores too.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, like when they talk about taming the West, that's

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Speaker 1: what they mean. It's like, let's go out there and

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Speaker 1: kill things. And they did this for a few reasons.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes it was because they had cattle that they wanted

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Speaker 1: to take care of, or you know, occasionally if they

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Speaker 1: thought they were in harm's way, they might kill a bear.

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Speaker 1: But a lot of it was just that sort of

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Speaker 1: I was about to say human nature, but really man's nature,

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Speaker 1: at least some men, not me or you, to want

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Speaker 1: to kill big, beautiful animals because they're big and beautiful,

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Speaker 1: and you know, I guess could be considered dangerous.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you got to keep an eye on those people

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Speaker 2: because they can very quickly become real like most dangerous

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Speaker 2: game types.

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Speaker 1: Right, that's right.

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Speaker 2: So by the time nineteen sixty seven rules around, when

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Speaker 2: the two nineteen year old women who died lost their lives,

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Speaker 2: and I'll just go ahead and say their names are

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Speaker 2: Julie Helgeson Man and Michelle Coon's. By the time they

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Speaker 2: died in August of nineteen sixty seven, grizzly bears had

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Speaker 2: been wiped out so thoroughly that they had a territory

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Speaker 2: that was about two percent of what it had once been.

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Speaker 2: Mostly they were in national parks because those were protected areas,

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Speaker 2: and there was something like under a thousand of them

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Speaker 2: in the entire continental United States.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's two percent is great when you're talking milk.

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Speaker 1: It's not great when you're talking about animal populations.

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Speaker 2: Did you write that one down?

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Speaker 1: I didn't. It just gained.

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Speaker 2: I mean it still present.

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Speaker 1: Here's the weird thing, though, is, and it seems rather counterintuitive,

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Speaker 1: there were there were more even though there were fewer bears,

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Speaker 1: there were more human encounters with these bears for this

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Speaker 1: very reason. And as we'll see, this is what part

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Speaker 1: of what led to this huge mess. And it's really

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Speaker 1: hard to if you're our age and maybe obviously younger.

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Speaker 1: You don't realize that National parks weren't always these places

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Speaker 1: where they really were smart about everything they did right,

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Speaker 1: because at the time, they would do some crazy things

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Speaker 1: in national parks. They would try and get bears around,

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Speaker 1: they would leave food out, they would There was one

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Speaker 1: story here that Livia found where and luckily a park

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Speaker 1: ranger kind of stopped this in the act. But these

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Speaker 1: parents brought a bear over with some food with a

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Speaker 1: candy bar and then tried to put their eighteen month

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Speaker 1: old on this bear's back to take a picture.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a story in that same article about a

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Speaker 2: guy who was trying to lure a bear into his

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Speaker 2: car to get a photo of it behind the wheel. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: just people interacting with giants. Again, six hundred pound grizzly bears.

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Speaker 2: They can just take your head clean off if they

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Speaker 2: want to. But that's the thing. They are really unpredictable,

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Speaker 2: and for the most part, they're vegetarians. I think plants

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Speaker 2: make up something like ninety percent of their diets, and

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Speaker 2: a lot of times they're I don't want to say docile.

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Speaker 2: But the eight month old baby survived, and so did

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Speaker 2: the mom. And so did the dad. If that bear

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Speaker 2: had acted any differently, they wouldn't have survived. So I

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Speaker 2: saw that their personalities can best be summed up as unpredictable.

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Speaker 2: But at the time in the sixties, that is not

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Speaker 2: the impression people had of bears. They were kind of

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Speaker 2: considered a lot more gentle. There was a park ranger

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Speaker 2: who was quoted by Jack Olsen who will meet in

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Speaker 2: a little while, who said that on a scale of

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Speaker 2: a danger scale, where a butterfly is a zero and

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Speaker 2: a rattlesnak is a ten, the grizzlies of Glacier Park

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Speaker 2: would have to rate somewhere between zero and one. That

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Speaker 2: is entirely wrong. He really should have said they rate

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Speaker 2: between a zero and a ten. And you have no

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Speaker 2: idea which what it's going to be at any given moment.

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Speaker 1: If you encounter a bear, yeah, and you know, like

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Speaker 1: a lot of large animals like this, when there is

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Speaker 1: a you know, their accident. So I'm gonna call it

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Speaker 1: an accidental killing. Because bears weren't like, ooh, human, let

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Speaker 1: me eat them, like you said. They're mostly vegetarian, and

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Speaker 1: even when they ate stuff that was non vegetarian, it

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Speaker 1: wasn't like oh boy, let me go chow down on

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Speaker 1: that person. It was let me go chow down on

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Speaker 1: that person's steak by the fire or the fish that

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Speaker 1: they're cooking, or something like that. And so when there

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Speaker 1: is an accident, it's usually one of a couple of things.

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Speaker 1: It's either the sort of familiar scenario where you stumble

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Speaker 1: upon a bear and scare them, or they may have

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Speaker 1: their cubs around them. I be a mama with some cubs,

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Speaker 1: or it is that bear that's like, wait a minute,

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Speaker 1: that's my food. You're eating that fish out of that river.

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Speaker 1: I want it, so let's go. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Apparently they defend their food like it's like with the

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Speaker 2: most jealous violence that they need to like, that is

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Speaker 2: their food, even if it's your food.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, because that bear thinks it's their food because

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Speaker 1: it's their territory. And the other thing that Livia was

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Speaker 1: keen to point out, which is like it sounds sort

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Speaker 1: of funny at first, but it really is a thing

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Speaker 1: that you need to pay attention to, is the Yoga

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Speaker 1: Bear cartoon was a big thing, and Yogi and Booboo

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Speaker 1: as these sort of friendly bears going after the picanic

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Speaker 1: basket that came about, because that's what it was like.

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Speaker 1: It wasn't like someone said, I got this crazy idea,

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Speaker 1: let's take these ferocious animals and make them a hand

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Speaker 1: of Barbara and let's make them into a lovable cartoon character.

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Speaker 1: It was like, No, that's when you went to these

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Speaker 1: national parks. Like you said, people are luring bears around.

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Speaker 1: They're like, ooh, take my picanic basket. If I can

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Speaker 1: take a picture, pick a picture, pick a picture. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: going to make that into a cla picnic thing. Anyway,

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Speaker 1: That's how things were. So that's why they made that cartoon,

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Speaker 1: and that was just sort of what was going on.

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Speaker 1: Like they literally at Glacier at one Oh I'm sorry,

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Speaker 1: this is at Yellowstone, but they were doing similar things

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Speaker 1: in Glacier. At Yellowstone they put bleachers up around the

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Speaker 1: open air dumps so people could show up and watch

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Speaker 1: the bear show, which was bears wandering in to eat.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. So a lot of people rightfully lay a lot

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Speaker 2: of the blame for the deaths in nineteen sixty seven

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Speaker 2: at the feet of the administrators of national parks at

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Speaker 2: the time, because they were using the bears as entertainment

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Speaker 2: and at the very least even if they weren't in

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Speaker 2: some of the parks, they were not instructing the public

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Speaker 2: on how to interact with bears and just how dangerous

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Speaker 2: bears were. And that was a huge problem because, like

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Speaker 2: you said, people were treating them like they were just

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Speaker 2: these docile, gentle animals that wouldn't do them any harm.

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Speaker 2: And then the other factor that kind of gets overlooked

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Speaker 2: is that this is right after the national highway system

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Speaker 2: had really been developed and people were hitting the road.

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Speaker 2: So these national parks were suddenly just swamped with tourists

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Speaker 2: for the first time in their history. So people were

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Speaker 2: there were far fewer bears, but there were a lot

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Speaker 2: more people all up in the bear's grills than there

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Speaker 2: ever had been in human history.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and leading up to this specific incident, and we'll know,

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Speaker 1: we'll detail a little bit more of this after I

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Speaker 1: guess we'll take a break here in a couple of minutes.

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Speaker 1: But at Glacier there were sort of in the days

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Speaker 1: leading up, there were a lot of alarming incidences where

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Speaker 1: bears were becoming way more aggressive or if you're watching

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Speaker 1: a cartoon, way more friendly than they had been. There

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Speaker 1: were fires that came through the park in the summer

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Speaker 1: of sixty seven, so that shrank their habitat some and

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Speaker 1: kind of squeezed them into a smaller area. And there

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Speaker 1: was one bear in particular that had been reported a

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Speaker 1: few different times. I went back, I'm sure you did too,

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Speaker 1: and read this great original Sports Illustrated article. Who was

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Speaker 1: it that wrote that?

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Speaker 2: Jack Olson?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, jack Olson is kind of the standard account of

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Speaker 1: this horrific event. But this bear was an emaciated female

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Speaker 1: who is underweight. Had been reported a lot going up

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Speaker 1: to people being very brazen and you not like typically

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Speaker 1: when you see a bear, if you ever watch these

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Speaker 1: outdoor shows, you start yelling at the bear, like get

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Speaker 1: out of here, and clanking a pot and the bear

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Speaker 1: usually he's gonna leave. Bears are scared and they don't want

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Speaker 1: to be around people. But this bear was not taking

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Speaker 1: any orders and not doing any of the things that

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Speaker 1: a bear would usually do. It would just come into

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Speaker 1: a camp and start eating and not leave until they

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Speaker 1: wanted to leave. This skinny lady bear right.

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Speaker 2: So we have in the Western National Park System a

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Speaker 2: situation where bears have become acclimated to humans. They're totally

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Speaker 2: fine with being really close to humans, kind of not

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Speaker 2: scared of us. And then also they had become habituated

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Speaker 2: on human food and garbage, and they now associated humans

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Speaker 2: with food and they were no longer scared of humans.

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Speaker 2: There were a huge population of bears in the western

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Speaker 2: parks with lots of humans coming to see them.

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Speaker 1: All right, well, that sounds like a very natural place

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Speaker 1: to stop, thanks and never come back, but we do.

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Speaker 1: We have to tell this bad story, so we'll be

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Speaker 1: back right after this, all right, So we're going to

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Speaker 1: take this one horrible incident at a time, and we're

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Speaker 1: going to start with the story of you mentioned earlier,

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Speaker 1: Julie Helguson. Man, that is really hard. For some reason,

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Speaker 1: it is I want to say a different word, but

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Speaker 1: it's Julie Helgason. She was from Minnesota, and she was

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Speaker 1: nineteen years old. Along with her friend that we're going

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Speaker 1: to meet who also lost her life, Michelle Coons. They

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Speaker 1: were both working summer jobs at Glacier. I imagine in the

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Speaker 1: late sixties at Glacier it was probably pretty great. I mean,

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Speaker 1: Glacier is an amazing place even today, but back then,

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Speaker 1: I imagine it was a pretty awesome summer job to have.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So I think Julie was working in the laundry

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Speaker 2: facility and Michelle was working in a gift shop. And

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Speaker 2: that makes the whole thing even more bizarre to me

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Speaker 2: because they knew each other. They both set out on

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Speaker 2: separate hikes on the afternoon of Saturday, August twelfth, nineteen

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Speaker 2: sixty seven, and they knew each other well enough that

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Speaker 2: Julie and her crew invited Michelle or no vice versa.

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Speaker 2: Michelle and her crew of five other friends and a

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Speaker 2: dog named Squirt invited Julie and her friend I'm getting

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Speaker 2: boyfriend vibes, Roy duke It to join them. But Michelle

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Speaker 2: and her group were going somewhere. I think they were

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Speaker 2: going to Trout Lake, and Julie and Roy had been

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Speaker 2: to Trout Lake the weekend before, so they wanted to

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Speaker 2: go in a different hike to Granite Park. She La

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Speaker 2: and they all set out, and these were experienced hikers.

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Speaker 2: They knew what they were doing, and they were off

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Speaker 2: to have a good weekend overnight camping trip out in

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Speaker 2: the woods. In the back country is what they call it,

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Speaker 2: but the back country is another word for wild territory.

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Speaker 1: That's right, I imagine they you know, we say they

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Speaker 1: knew each other imagine it was a pretty tight knit

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Speaker 1: group back then. There are many many more employees now

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Speaker 1: at these national parks and there were back then, and

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Speaker 1: you know these they were the same age, and they

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Speaker 1: were teens working this like amazing summer job. So we're

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Speaker 1: talking about Helgeson and du Kat at this point, they

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Speaker 1: hitchhiked to the and if you've ever driven down this road,

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Speaker 1: it's amazing. It's called going to the Sun road. The

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Speaker 1: main roadways it is, but it's really great. Well it's

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Speaker 1: really not because you don't actually go to the sun

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Speaker 1: it we'd be going toward the Sun road would be

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Speaker 1: what it should be called. But they went to spend

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Speaker 1: the night at this chalet initially, but the chalet was full,

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Speaker 1: and so back in the days where when you could

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Speaker 1: be surprised by something like that, and when they got there,

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Speaker 1: they they saw it was full and they said, all right,

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Speaker 1: well we'll just go camp about five hundred yards away.

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Speaker 1: We'll go camp in the woods sort of the immediate backcountry,

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Speaker 1: and they ate dinner, they watched the sunset off that road,

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Speaker 1: and they take it. They didn't have tents because they

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Speaker 1: thought they were going to be the chalet. No, so

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Speaker 1: they just bedded down in their sleeping bags on the

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Speaker 1: ground outside.

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Speaker 2: I've seen sleeping bag. Oh, that's why I took it

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Speaker 2: to possibly be her boyfriend.

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Speaker 1: But you could have zipped them together. That'll move.

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Speaker 2: There's one thing that yeah, I guess so I forgot

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Speaker 2: you could do that. There's one thing we should say

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Speaker 2: about the chalet Granite Park chalet that they hiked to

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Speaker 2: and were camping near. That was the site of a

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Speaker 2: purposeful feeding area that the managers of the chalet were

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Speaker 2: throwing out food scraps to attract the bears for the

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Speaker 2: entertainment of their guests. And just four days before this,

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Speaker 2: some rangers had visited Granite Park chalet saw what they

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Speaker 2: were doing and we're like, you can't do that, stop

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Speaker 2: doing that, And the manager were like, sure, sure, we'll

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Speaker 2: definitely stop doing that. So these guys are open air

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Speaker 2: camping about five football fields away from that very shellet.

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Speaker 1: That's right. So after they're in their bags at night,

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Speaker 1: just after midnight, a bear arrived, grizzly bear to their

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Speaker 1: camping spot. And you know, some of this stuff has

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Speaker 1: come out later in different forms, whether it was interviews

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Speaker 1: with survivors after the fact, or that sports Illustrated story

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Speaker 1: or them writing about it years later, and they've tried

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Speaker 1: to piece it together as best they can. But I

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Speaker 1: did see some of the details kind of varied here

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Speaker 1: and there among the accounts. But what we do know

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Speaker 1: is that Ducott said later on that Julie had seen

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Speaker 1: the bear and woke him up and said, hey, there's

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Speaker 1: a bear here. And from what I read in Sports Illustrated,

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Speaker 1: it was about ten feet away, but it was definitely

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Speaker 1: a bear, and so she's like played dead. The bear

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Speaker 1: did not fall for that and began mauling Ducott got

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Speaker 1: to his arms, his legs and his back and then

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Speaker 1: left him alone and then dragged poor Julie Helgeson off.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and so Ducott and there were other people camping nearby,

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Speaker 2: and you know, the chalet was five football fields away,

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Speaker 2: but there was probably help there. So they were screaming there,

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Speaker 2: using their flashlights to flash sos and they managed to

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Speaker 2: get the attention of some people who called for a helicopter,

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Speaker 2: and they came and got Ducat and he said, well,

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Speaker 2: don't forget Julie. She's out there somewhere. Apparently a ranger

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Speaker 2: who would have been in charge of sending out the

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Speaker 2: search party waited about two hours before he finally said, okay,

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Speaker 2: let's go out and find her because he was concerned

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Speaker 2: about putting other people's lives in danger, additional lives and

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Speaker 2: danger searching for her because we might run into that

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Speaker 2: bear and that I don't know if that caused her death.

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Speaker 2: I mean, the bear caused her death, but that might

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Speaker 2: have helped seal her fate. Two hours, Yeah, that was

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Speaker 2: two hours they finally found her. This happened just after midnight. Remember.

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Speaker 2: They finally found her and got her to the chalet

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Speaker 2: at three forty five am, and she died at four

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Speaker 2: to twelve am. She we had puncture wounds to her

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Speaker 2: throat and lungs, but she probably had died largely of

377
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Speaker 2: blood loss and it entered shock and that was it.

378
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Speaker 2: So I don't you can't really say, yes, she definitely

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Speaker 2: would have survived, but perhaps her chances of survival would

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Speaker 2: have been higher had they gone out and searched for

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Speaker 2: and founder a couple hours earlier.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think for sure. My initial reaction was to be,

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Speaker 1: you know, like, what the heck with this ranger? But again,

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Speaker 1: this is nineteen sixty seven, it was a different time.

385
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Speaker 1: They didn't have the resources they do now they didn't.

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Speaker 1: I'm sure now if there's any kind of bear situation,

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Speaker 1: they A they know exactly what to do and exactly

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Speaker 1: how to handle it, and B they have I would

389
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Speaker 1: imagine they have all kinds of tranquilizers or just more

390
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Speaker 1: guns and stuff to deal with this kind of thing

391
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Speaker 1: that they didn't have back then. I mean, it sounded

392
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Speaker 1: like if they would have gone after this bear, it

393
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Speaker 1: might have been one park ranger who maybe had a pistol,

394
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Speaker 1: maybe didn't, and then a bunch of other people with

395
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Speaker 1: you know, baseball bats or something like. They weren't prepared.

396
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Speaker 1: So I tried not to judge too harshly that this

397
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Speaker 1: guy said, hey, let's wait, because they had never encountered

398
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Speaker 1: something like this before.

399
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Speaker 2: And I think rightfully so, like people don't usually make

400
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Speaker 2: decisions out of cowardice. It's normally there's some other line

401
00:21:18,200 --> 00:21:20,960
Speaker 2: of thinking that in hindsight proved to be a bad decision.

402
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Speaker 2: So that was the unfortunate death of Julie Helgeson. She

403
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Speaker 2: was very terribly mauled and died of blood loss and

404
00:21:31,920 --> 00:21:38,680
Speaker 2: wounds to her lungs and throat. Michelle Coons just hours later,

405
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Speaker 2: essentially around the same time that Julie Helguson was dying

406
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Speaker 2: in a makeshift operating room at the chalet, a bear

407
00:21:47,320 --> 00:21:53,080
Speaker 2: was wandering up to Michelle and her her group's sleeping

408
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Speaker 2: bags that they had set up around a campfire and

409
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Speaker 2: a beach, because that same bear had already visited them

410
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Speaker 2: all the way back at eight pm and caused them

411
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Speaker 2: to split.

412
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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that bear came up. This bear came back

413
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Speaker 1: a few times. It was it was a very kind

414
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Speaker 1: of one of those things. Again, in hindsight, you're like,

415
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Speaker 1: they should have gotten out of there, but you know

416
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Speaker 1: what kind of detail, all the reasons why they had

417
00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:22,399
Speaker 1: gone fishing. They set up by this great lake, not

418
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Speaker 1: capital great lake, but this amazing lake. No, right, they

419
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Speaker 1: went fishing. They're one of the guys that was with

420
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Speaker 1: them was just sixteen years old, like these were kids,

421
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Speaker 1: you know. And he caught one fish. He caught a

422
00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:39,800
Speaker 1: rainbow trout, augmented that meal with some hot dogs, grilled

423
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Speaker 1: it up, and that grizzly, like you said, at eight pm,

424
00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:46,119
Speaker 1: came wandering around and they took off. They watched this

425
00:22:46,200 --> 00:22:49,639
Speaker 1: bear from a short distance eat that food and then

426
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Speaker 1: grab one of their backpacks and take it away. And

427
00:22:52,920 --> 00:22:54,960
Speaker 1: this is a point where like they could have gotten

428
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Speaker 1: the heck out of there, but they were like, it's

429
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Speaker 1: getting dark, we don't know what to do. This bear left.

430
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Speaker 1: It got our food, so it's probably fine now, right.

431
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Speaker 1: And also, if we're going to get out of here,

432
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Speaker 1: we got to go through this berry bush field that

433
00:23:07,720 --> 00:23:10,520
Speaker 1: are you know, that's tall berries or bears love those berries,

434
00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:12,320
Speaker 1: so they're you know, that bear may be there, there

435
00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:15,560
Speaker 1: may be may be more bears. So let's go down

436
00:23:15,560 --> 00:23:18,560
Speaker 1: here to the beach area. Let's build a huge fire

437
00:23:19,280 --> 00:23:21,560
Speaker 1: to try and help keep the bear away. And they

438
00:23:21,560 --> 00:23:25,640
Speaker 1: built a log barricade between that fire and their old

439
00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:29,359
Speaker 1: campsites and then line their sleeping bags up around this campfire.

440
00:23:29,920 --> 00:23:32,200
Speaker 1: But very key here they did bring some food. They

441
00:23:32,200 --> 00:23:35,080
Speaker 1: brought some cookies and some cheese its so to that

442
00:23:35,440 --> 00:23:36,280
Speaker 1: new campsite.

443
00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:38,880
Speaker 2: So is that the idea that that that was what

444
00:23:39,080 --> 00:23:43,120
Speaker 2: attracted the bear back again? The food, Yeah, the cheese its.

445
00:23:43,800 --> 00:23:46,399
Speaker 1: I mean it was food and thereafter food.

446
00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:49,440
Speaker 2: So okay, we should also say one other thing. As

447
00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:52,240
Speaker 2: they were before they even reached Trout Lake in the afternoon,

448
00:23:52,280 --> 00:23:54,520
Speaker 2: when they were on their hike to it, they passed

449
00:23:54,560 --> 00:23:57,440
Speaker 2: some other hikers who said that they had been recently

450
00:23:57,520 --> 00:24:01,840
Speaker 2: chased up a tree by a grizzly around that bear

451
00:24:02,760 --> 00:24:05,240
Speaker 2: nuts to that we're gonna keep going, and that that

452
00:24:05,280 --> 00:24:08,679
Speaker 2: same bear they believe. Also, it turned out actually they

453
00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:11,400
Speaker 2: not even they didn't believe it, like it was that

454
00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:15,679
Speaker 2: same troublesome bear that had been chasing girl scouts around

455
00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:17,919
Speaker 2: and had had been a problem all summer because it

456
00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:22,600
Speaker 2: was underfed and emaciated. And apparently that's a really good

457
00:24:23,160 --> 00:24:26,040
Speaker 2: way for a bear to start acting and behaving very

458
00:24:26,119 --> 00:24:28,520
Speaker 2: oddly and aggressively, is when it's underfed.

459
00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:33,280
Speaker 1: That's right. So this same bear that has been overly

460
00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:37,440
Speaker 1: aggressive toward everybody it meets, it seems like, came back

461
00:24:37,480 --> 00:24:39,960
Speaker 1: again after the eight o'clock visit, came back at three

462
00:24:40,040 --> 00:24:42,919
Speaker 1: am in the middle of the night. One of them

463
00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:46,880
Speaker 1: wakes up, sees that that fire is has basically died out,

464
00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:48,960
Speaker 1: and he jumped up things. The guy who caught the

465
00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:52,240
Speaker 1: trout jumped up to go start rebuilding this fire again

466
00:24:52,280 --> 00:24:56,040
Speaker 1: really quickly, and apparently set those cookies down on that

467
00:24:56,119 --> 00:25:00,560
Speaker 1: log barrier that they had between it and the old

468
00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:05,200
Speaker 1: camp site. So now it's three am. They all decide

469
00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:08,760
Speaker 1: the bear takes these cookies and goes away, and they

470
00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:11,600
Speaker 1: all decide, listen, we're gonna stay awake for the rest

471
00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:13,119
Speaker 1: of the night because now we're out here in the

472
00:25:13,119 --> 00:25:15,720
Speaker 1: middle of the night, we're genuinely stuck, like we can't

473
00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:19,240
Speaker 1: just hike off in the darkness, and so they decide

474
00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:20,520
Speaker 1: to all stay awake together.

475
00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:24,879
Speaker 2: So, man, I would have been quite scared by this time.

476
00:25:25,280 --> 00:25:27,600
Speaker 2: This is the second time the bear visited, right.

477
00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:32,119
Speaker 1: Yeah, eight o'clock PM, three am, constantly just taking this food.

478
00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:35,000
Speaker 2: And then now we get back to four thirty am

479
00:25:35,040 --> 00:25:38,280
Speaker 2: when the bear returns a final time, and this time

480
00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:40,280
Speaker 2: it just goes straight up aggressive. I don't know if

481
00:25:40,320 --> 00:25:41,960
Speaker 2: it was because they ran out of food and the

482
00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:43,840
Speaker 2: bear didn't like the fact that they didn't have any

483
00:25:43,880 --> 00:25:46,840
Speaker 2: more food or what, but it bit one of the

484
00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:51,119
Speaker 2: guys sleeping bags. It clowted his sweatshirt. So now we

485
00:25:51,160 --> 00:25:53,920
Speaker 2: get back to four thirty am when that bear returns

486
00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:56,480
Speaker 2: a final time, and I don't know if it was

487
00:25:56,520 --> 00:25:58,760
Speaker 2: because they had run out of food and the bear

488
00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:01,680
Speaker 2: didn't like that very much, but it became more aggressive

489
00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:04,440
Speaker 2: than the other times, and it actually started attacking the

490
00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:07,879
Speaker 2: kids in this camping group. One of them had its

491
00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:10,919
Speaker 2: sleeping bag bitten, which if a bear's attacking you and

492
00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:13,360
Speaker 2: it bites your sleeping bag, that's kind of best case scenario.

493
00:26:14,119 --> 00:26:18,240
Speaker 2: Clawed his sweatshirt, and I think there was other bear

494
00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:20,200
Speaker 2: encounters in this event.

495
00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:23,680
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, so that was Paul Donne. He starts screaming,

496
00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:27,399
Speaker 1: He runs away and climbs a tree. This bear is

497
00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:29,320
Speaker 1: chasing him. He runs away and he climbs a tree.

498
00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:32,000
Speaker 1: This kid's sixteen, So he's up this tree in a

499
00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:34,840
Speaker 1: matter of seconds. Apparently he did get all cut up

500
00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:36,320
Speaker 1: in stuff though, because he didn't have a shirt on

501
00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:38,880
Speaker 1: and he was, you know, climbing like a person scared

502
00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:41,480
Speaker 1: of a bear. Sure, so he gets up in this tree,

503
00:26:41,520 --> 00:26:44,439
Speaker 1: and from up in this tree, he looks down and

504
00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:47,440
Speaker 1: this bear is sort of circling below him. His friends

505
00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:50,399
Speaker 1: are at the camp. They have obviously woken up at

506
00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:52,760
Speaker 1: this point, and they see the bear circling the tree,

507
00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:56,200
Speaker 1: so that they use that as their opportunity to get away.

508
00:26:56,440 --> 00:26:59,440
Speaker 1: They grab that dog first of all, Squirt, And yeah,

509
00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:03,800
Speaker 1: they grab Squirt when this thing first started happening. They

510
00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:05,760
Speaker 1: grabbed it and put it inside the sleeping bag and

511
00:27:05,800 --> 00:27:09,040
Speaker 1: literally like had their hand over this dog's poor dog's

512
00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:11,800
Speaker 1: mouth like to try and play dead. But so they

513
00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:15,720
Speaker 1: finally get away as well. They run away while this

514
00:27:15,760 --> 00:27:19,440
Speaker 1: bear is circling the tree below Paul Dunn and except

515
00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:23,800
Speaker 1: for one person, and that was Michelle Coons. She they

516
00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:28,639
Speaker 1: hear there, literally, you know, thirty forty feet away from

517
00:27:28,680 --> 00:27:31,800
Speaker 1: this bear and their friend, and they hear her screaming.

518
00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:34,200
Speaker 1: They're like, you know, get out of there, get out

519
00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:36,159
Speaker 1: of there. They hear her yell, I can't he's got

520
00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:40,080
Speaker 1: the zipper. They hear her yell, he's ripping my arm.

521
00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:44,000
Speaker 1: He's got my arm. My arm is gone. And then

522
00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:46,680
Speaker 1: they finally hear her yell, oh my god, I'm dead,

523
00:27:47,240 --> 00:27:50,440
Speaker 1: and this bear carries her off in the sleeping bag,

524
00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:53,080
Speaker 1: still right right in front of them.

525
00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:57,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, so they are. They have no trouble staying awake

526
00:27:57,440 --> 00:27:59,760
Speaker 2: for the rest of the night. At this point. They

527
00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:03,719
Speaker 2: couple hours later, the sun came up, and after it

528
00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:06,120
Speaker 2: did and they saw that the bear was gone, they

529
00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:07,680
Speaker 2: took off for help. Right.

530
00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:12,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, that was a you know, in these parks, I'm

531
00:28:12,119 --> 00:28:14,120
Speaker 1: sure they still have stuff like this, said what's called

532
00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:17,080
Speaker 1: seasonal rangers that were maybe just there for the summer.

533
00:28:17,119 --> 00:28:20,480
Speaker 1: And there was a guy named Bert Gildart, and he

534
00:28:20,560 --> 00:28:23,359
Speaker 1: said at six thirty in the morning, he was at

535
00:28:23,359 --> 00:28:25,800
Speaker 1: West Glacier at this point in his little apartment, he

536
00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:28,800
Speaker 1: got a knock from another ranger named Norm Hagen, and

537
00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:32,359
Speaker 1: Guildhart was the one who knew about that previous killing

538
00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:35,119
Speaker 1: earlier in the night. And I'm not sure how, but

539
00:28:35,359 --> 00:28:37,720
Speaker 1: somehow he managed to go back to sleep, and he's

540
00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:40,560
Speaker 1: the one that got the emergency responders there. Hagen shows

541
00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:42,600
Speaker 1: up and says that there's a young woman who is

542
00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:44,240
Speaker 1: mauled at Trout Lake. And he was like, no, no, no,

543
00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:49,200
Speaker 1: you're confused. This was over at the chalet. And then

544
00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:51,680
Speaker 1: as you know, this Hagen guy keeps going, it dawns

545
00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:54,560
Speaker 1: on him, like, my god, what has happened. This has

546
00:28:54,600 --> 00:28:56,440
Speaker 1: happened twice in a matter of hours.

547
00:28:56,520 --> 00:29:01,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, So he very quickly out of himself over to

548
00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:04,960
Speaker 2: Trout Lake. I read that he essentially ran four miles

549
00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:08,520
Speaker 2: from the trailhead to the lake and there was another

550
00:29:08,600 --> 00:29:11,960
Speaker 2: ranger already there named Leonard Landa and two other men

551
00:29:12,040 --> 00:29:15,640
Speaker 2: arrived by helicopter and they formed a little search party,

552
00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:21,680
Speaker 2: and very quickly Leonard Landa discovered Michelle Kuhon's body. And

553
00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:26,400
Speaker 2: you had said earlier that like grizzly bears just generally

554
00:29:26,440 --> 00:29:29,920
Speaker 2: don't see humans as prey or as food, and one

555
00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:32,680
Speaker 2: of the things that makes them so unpredictable is they'll

556
00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:35,520
Speaker 2: do that sometimes sometimes they do see us as prey

557
00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:38,640
Speaker 2: and food. Like sometimes they'll attack one person in a

558
00:29:38,760 --> 00:29:41,680
Speaker 2: party see them as food, and then attack the other

559
00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:44,720
Speaker 2: people that defend that first person that they see as food.

560
00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:48,520
Speaker 2: And that seemed to be the case also with Michelle Coons,

561
00:29:48,560 --> 00:29:52,720
Speaker 2: because when her body was discovered, the bear had begun

562
00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:56,840
Speaker 2: eating it. And another dead giveaway usually is that the

563
00:29:56,880 --> 00:30:01,000
Speaker 2: bear will eat some and then go essentially bury the

564
00:30:01,040 --> 00:30:03,479
Speaker 2: body under some like dirt and twigs and stuff like that,

565
00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:06,400
Speaker 2: and then sit around and protect it. And I don't

566
00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:08,480
Speaker 2: know if I don't think they found the bear around

567
00:30:08,480 --> 00:30:11,000
Speaker 2: her body. They just found her body, but yeah, but

568
00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:13,240
Speaker 2: she had been essentially partially eaten.

569
00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:17,320
Speaker 1: Man, all right, I feel like we should take another break.

570
00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:19,959
Speaker 1: That is the sad story of what happened that night,

571
00:30:19,960 --> 00:30:21,360
Speaker 1: and we're going to talk a little bit about the

572
00:30:21,400 --> 00:30:23,000
Speaker 1: aftermath of what happened right after this.

573
00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:52,920
Speaker 2: Okay, So that was a big deal, not just in Glacier.

574
00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:56,320
Speaker 2: That stuff made it out very quickly and one of

575
00:30:56,360 --> 00:31:00,680
Speaker 2: the first responses among park officials was to go find

576
00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:03,600
Speaker 2: these bears that did this, and not only that, we

577
00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:07,000
Speaker 2: might have a problem with any bear that eats human food.

578
00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:12,800
Speaker 2: So Gilder and Landa formed like basically a death squad

579
00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:17,360
Speaker 2: looking for bears, especially the one who killed Michelle Kuons,

580
00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:22,280
Speaker 2: and they were basically instructed to shoot any bear that

581
00:31:22,280 --> 00:31:24,760
Speaker 2: didn't run away from him. And the first day they

582
00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:27,560
Speaker 2: didn't find any bears. They stayed overnight at a patrol

583
00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:31,040
Speaker 2: cabin at a place called Arrow Lake, and when Gildert

584
00:31:31,040 --> 00:31:33,840
Speaker 2: went out to use the bathroom the next morning, he

585
00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:36,400
Speaker 2: saw a bear and he called for Landa to bring

586
00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:39,400
Speaker 2: out the rifles, and Landa did, and as they were

587
00:31:39,400 --> 00:31:42,240
Speaker 2: standing there, giving the bear chance right, because none of

588
00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:45,800
Speaker 2: these people wanted to kill bears, there wasn't like vengeance necessarily,

589
00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:48,920
Speaker 2: and even if there was, I think actually that's not true.

590
00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:51,280
Speaker 2: I think Gildert had a sense of vengeance and then

591
00:31:51,320 --> 00:31:54,520
Speaker 2: eventually kind of had a change of heart. But some

592
00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:57,320
Speaker 2: of the other rangers were not happy about this job

593
00:31:57,360 --> 00:32:01,160
Speaker 2: of killing bears. And even if they, however they felt

594
00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:04,160
Speaker 2: about it, you were supposed to still kind of give

595
00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:06,920
Speaker 2: the bear a chance. If the bear took a step

596
00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:09,640
Speaker 2: towards you, that was a dead bear. If it ran

597
00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:12,600
Speaker 2: away from you, that bear could live to you know,

598
00:32:12,880 --> 00:32:16,280
Speaker 2: be examined. Another day, this bear started coming toward them,

599
00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:17,640
Speaker 2: so they had to kill it.

600
00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:22,680
Speaker 1: That's right. And this was the bear. The bear was

601
00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:25,840
Speaker 1: seventeen years old. The bear was under three hundred pounds.

602
00:32:26,160 --> 00:32:28,560
Speaker 1: And I know we said their range can be a

603
00:32:28,560 --> 00:32:30,480
Speaker 1: couple of hundred and up, but I get the idea

604
00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:32,959
Speaker 1: that this was a larger bear that was under three

605
00:32:33,040 --> 00:32:38,760
Speaker 1: hundred pounds and like clearly underfed and emaciated. They opened

606
00:32:38,800 --> 00:32:44,600
Speaker 1: this bear's stomach jaws movie style and found some a

607
00:32:44,600 --> 00:32:48,320
Speaker 1: big ball of blonde hair undigested inside the bear, and

608
00:32:48,400 --> 00:32:52,160
Speaker 1: also found this which and this is is all. It's

609
00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:54,240
Speaker 1: a tragedy for these humans. It's a tragedy for these

610
00:32:54,240 --> 00:32:57,840
Speaker 1: bears because they had been you know, fed human trash

611
00:32:57,960 --> 00:33:00,240
Speaker 1: for so long, and we're used to people. It's not

612
00:33:00,280 --> 00:33:04,040
Speaker 1: their fault. But they found glass embedded in the molars

613
00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:06,920
Speaker 1: of this bear. So this bear had been eating glass

614
00:33:07,320 --> 00:33:11,240
Speaker 1: food that was probably in glass from trash and made

615
00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:13,760
Speaker 1: it difficult for this bear to eat. Probably probably made

616
00:33:13,920 --> 00:33:18,840
Speaker 1: the bear very uncomfortable and grumpy, and that probably all

617
00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:21,080
Speaker 1: contributed to what happened to Michelle Kuhon's.

618
00:33:21,160 --> 00:33:24,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's really important to remember that none

619
00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:27,280
Speaker 2: of this was the bear's fault. The bears were acting

620
00:33:27,400 --> 00:33:32,240
Speaker 2: like bears, and they were being essentially mistreated by humans

621
00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:36,360
Speaker 2: in the park administrators by allowing them to get habituated

622
00:33:36,440 --> 00:33:40,600
Speaker 2: human food, because it was destined. This was destined to

623
00:33:40,640 --> 00:33:43,680
Speaker 2: happen essentially the way that people were behaving in the parks.

624
00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:49,520
Speaker 2: So they had definitively the bear that killed Michelle Kuhon's.

625
00:33:49,560 --> 00:33:51,440
Speaker 2: I mean, they didn't test the hair or anything like that,

626
00:33:51,560 --> 00:33:55,960
Speaker 2: but it was just her. Yeah, they were still looking

627
00:33:56,000 --> 00:34:01,360
Speaker 2: for Julie Helgeson's bear, and they actually never offinitively identified it.

628
00:34:01,400 --> 00:34:05,800
Speaker 2: But another ranger named Dave Shay, who was among a

629
00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:08,680
Speaker 2: group of four who shot a bear and her cubs

630
00:34:08,680 --> 00:34:13,600
Speaker 2: that were feeding at the Chalet garbage pit, he was

631
00:34:13,680 --> 00:34:16,279
Speaker 2: convinced that that was the one that killed Helgeson because

632
00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:18,759
Speaker 2: that bear had blood on her claws, and I don't

633
00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:21,759
Speaker 2: believe Julie Helguson had any feeding done to her, So

634
00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:24,279
Speaker 2: it's not like that could have been an innocent bear

635
00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:25,680
Speaker 2: that just came along and was like, oh, I'm going

636
00:34:25,719 --> 00:34:27,520
Speaker 2: to have a bite of this but didn't kill her.

637
00:34:27,680 --> 00:34:30,480
Speaker 2: It was almost certainly the bear that killed her. And

638
00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:34,359
Speaker 2: even if it wasn't, there an orgy of grizzly bear

639
00:34:34,640 --> 00:34:39,560
Speaker 2: death fell over Glacier and Yellowstone and the other national

640
00:34:39,640 --> 00:34:44,080
Speaker 2: parks that had grizzly bears in the ensuing weeks, months

641
00:34:44,080 --> 00:34:46,279
Speaker 2: and years after the Night of the Grizzlies.

642
00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:49,640
Speaker 1: Absolutely, like you said, the media got hold of this

643
00:34:49,840 --> 00:34:52,400
Speaker 1: and all of of course, all of a sudden, everyone

644
00:34:52,400 --> 00:34:55,160
Speaker 1: once got an opinion. Everyone thinks that they know exactly

645
00:34:55,160 --> 00:34:58,239
Speaker 1: why this happened. Some people were like, well, there were

646
00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:02,759
Speaker 1: thunderstorms and lightning nearby that could have agitated them. The

647
00:35:02,840 --> 00:35:06,920
Speaker 1: idea that bears are attracted to minstrual blood was brought up.

648
00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:10,960
Speaker 1: I think they now say that that's maybe true with

649
00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:12,000
Speaker 1: polar bears.

650
00:35:11,640 --> 00:35:16,600
Speaker 2: Only well, they've never experimented with They experimented with polar bears.

651
00:35:16,600 --> 00:35:18,760
Speaker 2: Polar bears showed a preference for that and like seal

652
00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:22,080
Speaker 2: blood or something, and then they've never experimented like that

653
00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:25,319
Speaker 2: with grizzlies. But somebody that did like a once over

654
00:35:25,400 --> 00:35:28,480
Speaker 2: of grizzly attacks and didn't find any pattern necessary. So

655
00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:31,239
Speaker 2: we don't know experimentally, but we do know anecdotally that's

656
00:35:31,239 --> 00:35:32,360
Speaker 2: probably not true.

657
00:35:32,640 --> 00:35:34,720
Speaker 1: Right, But at any rate, that doesn't keep the media

658
00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:37,839
Speaker 1: from reporting something like this, sure, and then showing up

659
00:35:37,840 --> 00:35:41,880
Speaker 1: in Anchorman as a joke years later. But you know,

660
00:35:42,040 --> 00:35:46,240
Speaker 1: it was coincidence. There was never any like link between

661
00:35:46,239 --> 00:35:49,920
Speaker 1: these two. It was just a really bad coincidence, a

662
00:35:49,960 --> 00:35:53,640
Speaker 1: horrific example of bad human luck that night between these

663
00:35:53,680 --> 00:35:57,480
Speaker 1: two young women. Jack Olson wrote that story, the Sports

664
00:35:57,520 --> 00:36:00,560
Speaker 1: Illustrated Story, which is a really fun read parts and

665
00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:03,520
Speaker 1: three separate issues that you also get the benefit of.

666
00:36:04,200 --> 00:36:06,799
Speaker 1: The ads of nineteen sixty seven in a magazine Whi's

667
00:36:06,840 --> 00:36:09,040
Speaker 1: always fun. I'm sorry. This is nineteen sixty nine when

668
00:36:09,080 --> 00:36:09,600
Speaker 1: it finally.

669
00:36:09,400 --> 00:36:12,200
Speaker 2: Came in, right, the Summer of Love, right, that's.

670
00:36:12,040 --> 00:36:16,800
Speaker 1: Right, one of them. This was when everything started to change.

671
00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:23,360
Speaker 1: People started. There was a biologist name Gardner Moment who said,

672
00:36:23,560 --> 00:36:27,000
Speaker 1: you know what we should And it's interesting that this

673
00:36:27,120 --> 00:36:29,560
Speaker 1: was a biologist, but this guy came out and was like, hey,

674
00:36:29,640 --> 00:36:32,760
Speaker 1: you know what, we need to finish what our forefathers started,

675
00:36:33,239 --> 00:36:36,520
Speaker 1: and we need to make them extinct in the United States.

676
00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:38,759
Speaker 1: And not only that, but the common rat in the

677
00:36:38,760 --> 00:36:42,840
Speaker 1: fire ant, some kinds of sharks that seats fly this

678
00:36:42,920 --> 00:36:46,240
Speaker 1: guy was like, let's wipe out anything that bothers humans

679
00:36:46,360 --> 00:36:47,880
Speaker 1: or is a potential threat to humans.

680
00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:50,759
Speaker 2: If a biologist can be a hack, Gardner Moment was

681
00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:54,279
Speaker 2: a hack biologist. Agree, that's just a terrible idea, and

682
00:36:54,320 --> 00:36:58,080
Speaker 2: it's not like that was just like the zeitgeist. People

683
00:36:58,239 --> 00:37:01,880
Speaker 2: arguing it, like Gardner Moment introduced it to the zeitgeist,

684
00:37:01,960 --> 00:37:05,520
Speaker 2: or at least kind of stoked any existing feelings in

685
00:37:05,560 --> 00:37:07,719
Speaker 2: the public. And so now all of a sudden there

686
00:37:07,800 --> 00:37:10,200
Speaker 2: was like a push to get rid of grizzly bears

687
00:37:10,239 --> 00:37:13,400
Speaker 2: because they wouldn't behave around the humans that had invaded

688
00:37:13,440 --> 00:37:15,360
Speaker 2: their areas.

689
00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:18,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, luckily that didn't happen, right. I think there were

690
00:37:18,719 --> 00:37:20,839
Speaker 1: more people, or I don't know about more, but there

691
00:37:20,880 --> 00:37:23,160
Speaker 1: were people beating the drum on the other side of like, no,

692
00:37:23,320 --> 00:37:25,439
Speaker 1: this is not something we should do, and they went out.

693
00:37:25,520 --> 00:37:28,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, real biologists, grizzly biologists. They're known as the father

694
00:37:28,719 --> 00:37:32,560
Speaker 2: of grizzly Fathers of grizzly biology. They were twin brothers,

695
00:37:32,840 --> 00:37:38,160
Speaker 2: Frank and John Craighead, and they became the Philischaffley of

696
00:37:38,680 --> 00:37:44,080
Speaker 2: the movement to eradicate bears. They just almost single handedly

697
00:37:44,080 --> 00:37:46,920
Speaker 2: gotten the way of that and managed to swing public

698
00:37:46,960 --> 00:37:52,520
Speaker 2: sentiment back toward conservation. And it was a real that

699
00:37:52,600 --> 00:37:56,799
Speaker 2: was a real accomplishment because when Jack Olsen wrote Knight

700
00:37:56,880 --> 00:37:59,560
Speaker 2: of the Grizzlies, which by the way, there it was

701
00:37:59,600 --> 00:38:03,080
Speaker 2: called the Grizzly Bear murder Case in Sports Illustrated.

702
00:38:02,600 --> 00:38:03,840
Speaker 1: Right, Oh wow, I'm.

703
00:38:03,680 --> 00:38:08,680
Speaker 2: Glad they switched it. When he wrote the actual book

704
00:38:08,680 --> 00:38:14,040
Speaker 2: in nineteen sixty nine, he was a disinterested observer, he

705
00:38:14,120 --> 00:38:17,040
Speaker 2: was a reporter, but he concluded like that was the

706
00:38:17,040 --> 00:38:20,840
Speaker 2: fate of the Grizzlies. They were goners, Like the public

707
00:38:20,920 --> 00:38:23,080
Speaker 2: had turned against them so much that it was all

708
00:38:23,120 --> 00:38:27,479
Speaker 2: but already done. So the Craighead brothers managing to turn

709
00:38:27,560 --> 00:38:29,960
Speaker 2: public sentiment like that was a big deal. And they

710
00:38:29,960 --> 00:38:32,080
Speaker 2: did it by saying, like, there's just a few common

711
00:38:32,080 --> 00:38:34,520
Speaker 2: sense things we need to do, and if we do them,

712
00:38:34,760 --> 00:38:39,919
Speaker 2: you're going to basically get rid of human bear interactions

713
00:38:40,560 --> 00:38:41,960
Speaker 2: or deaths by grizzly bear.

714
00:38:42,760 --> 00:38:45,120
Speaker 1: Yeah. And they actually had research. They weren't just saying,

715
00:38:45,320 --> 00:38:46,719
Speaker 1: you know, this is what we think. They had a

716
00:38:46,760 --> 00:38:51,480
Speaker 1: full decade of human grizzly interaction and they could point

717
00:38:51,480 --> 00:38:53,680
Speaker 1: to actual stuff and say no, no, no, this is what

718
00:38:53,719 --> 00:38:57,560
Speaker 1: we have found. And they cited this research. And this

719
00:38:57,920 --> 00:39:00,759
Speaker 1: is a great quote. I think it was John that said,

720
00:39:00,840 --> 00:39:02,919
Speaker 1: you know, getting rid of all these bears, he said,

721
00:39:02,920 --> 00:39:05,880
Speaker 1: would be as tragic as the leveling of Yellowstone Canyon

722
00:39:05,920 --> 00:39:08,800
Speaker 1: because somebody fatally fell from its brink. Yeah, like, you

723
00:39:08,840 --> 00:39:12,040
Speaker 1: don't go knocking down the mountain because someone fell off

724
00:39:12,040 --> 00:39:14,080
Speaker 1: of it, And you don't go killing all the grizzlies

725
00:39:14,440 --> 00:39:15,640
Speaker 1: because they killed somebody.

726
00:39:15,760 --> 00:39:19,200
Speaker 2: Jack Kerouac said, you can't fall off a mountain. Did

727
00:39:19,200 --> 00:39:20,840
Speaker 2: he really, Yeah, it was in the Dharma Bums.

728
00:39:21,760 --> 00:39:23,040
Speaker 1: I read that one. It's been a while.

729
00:39:23,160 --> 00:39:25,839
Speaker 2: So the common sense stuff that they pointed out, where

730
00:39:26,160 --> 00:39:28,480
Speaker 2: like keep humans out of some parts of the park.

731
00:39:28,640 --> 00:39:31,520
Speaker 2: It's like, sorry, this is bear territory. Just leave it

732
00:39:31,560 --> 00:39:34,280
Speaker 2: to the bears. Don't go back there, it's too dangerous

733
00:39:34,280 --> 00:39:37,680
Speaker 2: for you. Step one, at least another is just like

734
00:39:37,880 --> 00:39:42,640
Speaker 2: actually monitor bears, like start tracking the bears in the park,

735
00:39:43,239 --> 00:39:45,480
Speaker 2: know them, get to know who they are, and then

736
00:39:45,520 --> 00:39:49,040
Speaker 2: also like when they're moving around, you should probably have

737
00:39:49,120 --> 00:39:51,840
Speaker 2: a good idea of where they are and win and

738
00:39:51,880 --> 00:39:56,759
Speaker 2: who's around them. And basically just teach the public that

739
00:39:56,880 --> 00:39:59,879
Speaker 2: Yogi bear is fictitious, not a real bear. He lives

740
00:39:59,880 --> 00:40:04,040
Speaker 2: in Jellystone you're in Yellowstone. Big difference, right, And if

741
00:40:04,080 --> 00:40:06,879
Speaker 2: they do that, but also teach the public like, yes,

742
00:40:06,920 --> 00:40:10,239
Speaker 2: they're a risk. You're at greater risk outboating on one

743
00:40:10,320 --> 00:40:12,680
Speaker 2: of the lakes. But they are still a risk, so

744
00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:15,120
Speaker 2: treat them as such. They're a wild animal. But yes,

745
00:40:15,239 --> 00:40:17,520
Speaker 2: go see them and take in their majesty, but from

746
00:40:17,520 --> 00:40:22,960
Speaker 2: afar like that would definitely reduce encounters and thus the

747
00:40:23,080 --> 00:40:25,720
Speaker 2: chances of bears killing humans.

748
00:40:26,400 --> 00:40:29,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, and if you've been to a national park at

749
00:40:29,320 --> 00:40:33,399
Speaker 1: all in the last well, since this really then what

750
00:40:33,440 --> 00:40:36,879
Speaker 1: you see are bearproof garbage cans. I actually bought these

751
00:40:36,960 --> 00:40:39,040
Speaker 1: for my camp. I have bearproof stuff at my camp.

752
00:40:40,080 --> 00:40:44,240
Speaker 1: Bearproof garbage cans. You're going to see where you're cooking

753
00:40:44,320 --> 00:40:47,520
Speaker 1: area should not be where you sleep. You're going to

754
00:40:47,560 --> 00:40:51,840
Speaker 1: see these cables strung between trees or you're encouraged and

755
00:40:51,880 --> 00:40:53,360
Speaker 1: they teach you how to do it yourself. So you

756
00:40:53,400 --> 00:40:56,000
Speaker 1: hang up your food high off the ground, suspended between

757
00:40:56,040 --> 00:40:58,080
Speaker 1: trees at night. You can't just loop it over a

758
00:40:58,080 --> 00:40:59,920
Speaker 1: branch because they'll climb up that tree. You gotta suspend

759
00:40:59,920 --> 00:41:01,640
Speaker 1: it to pain in the butt, but you got to

760
00:41:01,680 --> 00:41:04,040
Speaker 1: do it. And you know this stuff now you can't

761
00:41:04,080 --> 00:41:06,200
Speaker 1: go to a national park or go back country camping

762
00:41:06,640 --> 00:41:11,239
Speaker 1: without seeing signs and just knowing everything that we know

763
00:41:11,360 --> 00:41:14,160
Speaker 1: now has all been in place literally because of this

764
00:41:14,360 --> 00:41:17,760
Speaker 1: night that all came out of this, that you shouldn't

765
00:41:17,760 --> 00:41:20,800
Speaker 1: have food around your camp, You cannot entice bears. Don't

766
00:41:21,080 --> 00:41:24,279
Speaker 1: get that candy bar near your windshield, Like this is

767
00:41:24,320 --> 00:41:25,760
Speaker 1: not how we should be treating bears.

768
00:41:25,920 --> 00:41:29,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think also a general idea that your

769
00:41:29,200 --> 00:41:32,120
Speaker 2: bad behavior might not result in your death, but you're

770
00:41:32,120 --> 00:41:35,120
Speaker 2: increasing the chances that it could kill someone else. So

771
00:41:35,200 --> 00:41:38,840
Speaker 2: there was a collective responsibility that was put upon visitors

772
00:41:38,880 --> 00:41:43,480
Speaker 2: to the park too, and I think that was super helpful. Yeah,

773
00:41:43,520 --> 00:41:48,440
Speaker 2: like we said, there was a this changeover wasn't just

774
00:41:48,560 --> 00:41:52,680
Speaker 2: without fault. Apparently Yellowstone was just they just shut down

775
00:41:52,920 --> 00:41:55,640
Speaker 2: the garbage dumps like they were like no more garbage

776
00:41:55,680 --> 00:41:58,920
Speaker 2: for bears. Smart, I mean what you would do in

777
00:41:59,000 --> 00:42:01,600
Speaker 2: response to something like the Night of the Grizzlies. But

778
00:42:01,680 --> 00:42:06,000
Speaker 2: the Craighead brothers had said, like, don't do that, Like, yes,

779
00:42:06,040 --> 00:42:08,960
Speaker 2: shut them down, but do it gradually and start supplementing

780
00:42:09,000 --> 00:42:11,840
Speaker 2: their food that you're taking away from them with actual

781
00:42:12,000 --> 00:42:14,960
Speaker 2: food of theirs, like elk or something like that, and

782
00:42:15,040 --> 00:42:17,920
Speaker 2: they didn't do that, and as a result, the bears

783
00:42:18,200 --> 00:42:22,000
Speaker 2: were now made more appearances at campgrounds looking for food

784
00:42:22,040 --> 00:42:25,000
Speaker 2: because the dumps have been shut down, and it ended

785
00:42:25,080 --> 00:42:27,880
Speaker 2: up in more bare deaths and the death of a

786
00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:29,439
Speaker 2: camper in nineteen seventy two.

787
00:42:30,239 --> 00:42:32,839
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it's basically saying it's basically like having

788
00:42:32,880 --> 00:42:35,640
Speaker 1: a food store for a wild animal that they know

789
00:42:35,800 --> 00:42:38,560
Speaker 1: is always open, and then they just shut that food

790
00:42:38,600 --> 00:42:41,319
Speaker 1: store down all of a sudden. The bear doesn't know

791
00:42:41,360 --> 00:42:43,600
Speaker 1: that they're going to keep coming back there. They're going

792
00:42:43,680 --> 00:42:46,520
Speaker 1: to be confused. It will take them a long time

793
00:42:46,600 --> 00:42:48,840
Speaker 1: to learn that there's not food there to go elsewhere,

794
00:42:49,040 --> 00:42:51,200
Speaker 1: which is why the Craighead said to do it gradually.

795
00:42:51,280 --> 00:42:55,279
Speaker 1: It makes sense, but just rash decisions were made, Like

796
00:42:55,320 --> 00:42:59,080
Speaker 1: you said, in seventy two, another camper was killed. This

797
00:42:59,200 --> 00:43:03,640
Speaker 1: was an illegal campsite I think, and you know had

798
00:43:03,680 --> 00:43:06,719
Speaker 1: left their food out, so that's what happened. They still

799
00:43:06,800 --> 00:43:09,239
Speaker 1: killed a lot of bears. I think one hundred and

800
00:43:09,280 --> 00:43:13,000
Speaker 1: eighty nine bears were killed between sixty eight and seventy three,

801
00:43:14,160 --> 00:43:17,160
Speaker 1: and by nineteen seventy five, between those killings and then

802
00:43:17,200 --> 00:43:19,359
Speaker 1: the lack of food, there were only one hundred and

803
00:43:19,360 --> 00:43:24,000
Speaker 1: thirty six grizzlies left in Yellowstone, prompting them to be

804
00:43:24,040 --> 00:43:27,120
Speaker 1: placed on the Endangered Species list and covered by the

805
00:43:27,200 --> 00:43:33,320
Speaker 1: Endangered Species Act. They've made a very nice recovery such

806
00:43:33,600 --> 00:43:35,759
Speaker 1: I believe they have six recovery zones starting in the

807
00:43:35,800 --> 00:43:39,040
Speaker 1: early nineties, one of which was in Glacier and one

808
00:43:39,080 --> 00:43:42,719
Speaker 1: around Yellowstone where they you know, were trying to have

809
00:43:42,800 --> 00:43:46,920
Speaker 1: reintroduced these bears. And now they are up to a

810
00:43:46,960 --> 00:43:49,200
Speaker 1: couple of thousand I think in the US.

811
00:43:49,960 --> 00:43:51,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I think nearly two thousand.

812
00:43:52,400 --> 00:43:54,520
Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean such that there are people now that

813
00:43:54,560 --> 00:43:57,520
Speaker 1: are saying, like, hey, we should let people hunt bear

814
00:43:57,560 --> 00:43:58,400
Speaker 1: again in the US.

815
00:43:58,640 --> 00:44:01,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, which is a great idea. Do it. Of course,

816
00:44:01,600 --> 00:44:05,560
Speaker 2: we should really get that instinct of killing a large

817
00:44:05,560 --> 00:44:08,360
Speaker 2: trophy animal for bragging rights back as soon as we

818
00:44:08,440 --> 00:44:09,200
Speaker 2: possibly can.

819
00:44:09,920 --> 00:44:10,719
Speaker 1: That's sarcasm.

820
00:44:11,160 --> 00:44:14,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, And so that didn't do a way like it's

821
00:44:14,080 --> 00:44:17,239
Speaker 2: not the end of bear killings among humans, like it

822
00:44:17,280 --> 00:44:21,200
Speaker 2: does happen. Actually, twenty twenty three has seen four different

823
00:44:21,320 --> 00:44:25,320
Speaker 2: deaths from three different bear attacks just this year alone

824
00:44:25,640 --> 00:44:28,600
Speaker 2: in I think national parks in the United States. That's

825
00:44:28,920 --> 00:44:33,200
Speaker 2: pretty significant because it is really really rare despite you know,

826
00:44:34,320 --> 00:44:38,160
Speaker 2: events like that. The National Park Service estimates that if

827
00:44:38,160 --> 00:44:41,520
Speaker 2: you visit a national park you have a one in

828
00:44:41,600 --> 00:44:47,280
Speaker 2: two point seven million visits chance of being injured, not killed,

829
00:44:47,320 --> 00:44:49,480
Speaker 2: injured by a bear. But if you stay in the

830
00:44:49,520 --> 00:44:52,160
Speaker 2: developed areas like the roads and everything and don't go

831
00:44:52,239 --> 00:44:55,960
Speaker 2: into back country, you have a one in thirty nine

832
00:44:56,040 --> 00:44:59,200
Speaker 2: point six million chance of being injured by a bear.

833
00:44:59,680 --> 00:45:01,239
Speaker 2: But it it cuts both ways because if you do

834
00:45:01,360 --> 00:45:04,000
Speaker 2: go back country camping overnight, you have a one in

835
00:45:04,080 --> 00:45:08,520
Speaker 2: five hundred and fifty four thousand overnight visits chance of

836
00:45:08,760 --> 00:45:11,040
Speaker 2: being injured by a bear. So it really depends on

837
00:45:11,080 --> 00:45:12,920
Speaker 2: where you go and what you do, and if you

838
00:45:12,920 --> 00:45:16,759
Speaker 2: put yourself out there in bear country, you have to

839
00:45:16,800 --> 00:45:17,480
Speaker 2: come prepared.

840
00:45:18,000 --> 00:45:20,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've done. I mean, you know, we've got my

841
00:45:20,320 --> 00:45:23,000
Speaker 1: little black bears at my camp that I've caught them

842
00:45:23,000 --> 00:45:26,000
Speaker 1: my camp camp. But these are the you know, the

843
00:45:26,040 --> 00:45:28,480
Speaker 1: little guys in Georgia and they No one has literally

844
00:45:28,480 --> 00:45:31,640
Speaker 1: ever been killed by a bear in Georgia. But I've

845
00:45:31,680 --> 00:45:33,440
Speaker 1: done a lot of camping in back country, camping out

846
00:45:33,480 --> 00:45:35,719
Speaker 1: west over the years, and I never saw a bear.

847
00:45:37,120 --> 00:45:40,480
Speaker 1: You know, it's if you're smart, It doesn't mean it

848
00:45:40,480 --> 00:45:42,880
Speaker 1: can't happen, but like you said, the chances are very remote,

849
00:45:42,880 --> 00:45:44,279
Speaker 1: but you got to be smart. You got to do

850
00:45:44,320 --> 00:45:46,440
Speaker 1: the right thing with your food and your trash, be

851
00:45:46,480 --> 00:45:49,200
Speaker 1: good steward of the land. Back in the late sixties,

852
00:45:49,239 --> 00:45:51,960
Speaker 1: it was I think at one point Olivia said that

853
00:45:52,440 --> 00:45:54,719
Speaker 1: they were starting to clean up a little bit then,

854
00:45:54,840 --> 00:45:58,480
Speaker 1: and they got three helicopters worth of trash just out

855
00:45:58,480 --> 00:46:01,560
Speaker 1: of this one area of glacier. People. This is the

856
00:46:01,560 --> 00:46:04,960
Speaker 1: time when people just go back country camping, not everyone probably,

857
00:46:05,239 --> 00:46:10,359
Speaker 1: and just leave their stuff another yeah, and just leave

858
00:46:10,400 --> 00:46:13,600
Speaker 1: their garbage. And it's a Thankfully, we've come a long

859
00:46:13,760 --> 00:46:16,440
Speaker 1: way since then, and even though that still happens, I

860
00:46:16,480 --> 00:46:18,920
Speaker 1: guarantee you every time there's a bear incident in the

861
00:46:19,000 --> 00:46:22,680
Speaker 1: United States, it is highly scrutinized and studied, and they're

862
00:46:22,680 --> 00:46:23,759
Speaker 1: still trying to learn from it.

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00:46:23,960 --> 00:46:26,279
Speaker 2: Yep, you got anything else?

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00:46:26,719 --> 00:46:27,560
Speaker 1: I got nothing else?

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00:46:27,719 --> 00:46:29,439
Speaker 2: All right, Well, if you want to know more about

866
00:46:29,560 --> 00:46:33,120
Speaker 2: bear attacks, go familiarize yourself, especially if you're going to

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00:46:33,200 --> 00:46:36,000
Speaker 2: a national park. And since I said that, it's time

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00:46:36,000 --> 00:46:40,440
Speaker 2: for a listener mail, I'm gonna call this.

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00:46:40,400 --> 00:46:43,880
Speaker 1: One Hammond clock. Remember we talked about the Lawrence Hammond episode.

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00:46:44,080 --> 00:46:44,920
Speaker 1: He made those clocks.

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00:46:45,120 --> 00:46:46,520
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, the tickless clock.

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00:46:46,840 --> 00:46:50,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, Tim and Sarah have one and it's beautiful. Hey, guys,

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00:46:50,480 --> 00:46:52,440
Speaker 1: listening to the Lawrence Hammond episode and had to write in.

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00:46:52,560 --> 00:46:55,600
Speaker 1: My wife's parents owned a Delhi in Brooklyn and had

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00:46:55,600 --> 00:46:58,799
Speaker 1: a Hammond electric clock hanging up for many years. When

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00:46:58,800 --> 00:47:01,840
Speaker 1: they passed on, the clock came to our possession not

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00:47:01,920 --> 00:47:03,719
Speaker 1: in the greatest shape. I was able to clean it

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00:47:03,800 --> 00:47:07,120
Speaker 1: up and discovered that it also had low voltage light

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00:47:07,160 --> 00:47:09,600
Speaker 1: bulbs on the inside. It took some time to find them,

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00:47:09,640 --> 00:47:13,080
Speaker 1: but I got that working too. My wife never knew

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00:47:13,080 --> 00:47:15,799
Speaker 1: that the face lit up all those years. That's super cool.

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00:47:15,960 --> 00:47:16,160
Speaker 2: Yes.

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00:47:16,560 --> 00:47:18,799
Speaker 1: During my online searches for bulbs, I had read about

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00:47:18,800 --> 00:47:21,400
Speaker 1: the uniqueness of the Hammon electric clock. One thing he

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00:47:21,440 --> 00:47:24,440
Speaker 1: did differently from all the other electric clock manufacturers at

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00:47:24,440 --> 00:47:27,880
Speaker 1: that time was his clock requires a restart when the

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00:47:27,960 --> 00:47:31,560
Speaker 1: power goes out and comes back on. The other people's

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00:47:31,560 --> 00:47:35,040
Speaker 1: clocks start right back up automatically, And Hammond designed it

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00:47:35,040 --> 00:47:37,280
Speaker 1: the way on purpose. And I agree one hundred percent

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00:47:37,280 --> 00:47:40,080
Speaker 1: with the design decision. We know exactly what time the

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00:47:40,120 --> 00:47:42,640
Speaker 1: power went out. Think about it. Even if the clock

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00:47:42,680 --> 00:47:45,759
Speaker 1: automatically restarts after a power outage, you still have to

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00:47:45,800 --> 00:47:48,719
Speaker 1: adjust the time. Anyway, the man really did have an

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00:47:48,760 --> 00:47:52,319
Speaker 1: analytical mind and thought of just about everything. And I

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00:47:52,360 --> 00:47:54,759
Speaker 1: think I agree Tim. That is from Tim and Sarah.

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00:47:54,840 --> 00:47:56,719
Speaker 2: Nice Tim and Sarah, thank you very much. So it

897
00:47:56,760 --> 00:47:59,239
Speaker 2: was a great email. I guess they send a picture

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00:47:59,239 --> 00:48:00,200
Speaker 2: of the clock all lit up.

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00:48:00,880 --> 00:48:03,480
Speaker 1: They sent a picture later because I was like, why

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00:48:03,480 --> 00:48:04,360
Speaker 1: didn't you send a picture?

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00:48:04,520 --> 00:48:05,880
Speaker 2: Oh, I want to see it. Did they send it

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00:48:05,880 --> 00:48:06,720
Speaker 2: to both of us?

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00:48:07,880 --> 00:48:09,560
Speaker 1: I'm not sure, but if not, I'll afford it to you.

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Speaker 2: That's very kind of you. And that was Sarah and

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00:48:13,719 --> 00:48:16,520
Speaker 2: Sarah and Tim. Yes, thank you guys again. And if

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00:48:16,520 --> 00:48:18,359
Speaker 2: you want to be like Tim and Sarah, you can

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00:48:18,400 --> 00:48:20,680
Speaker 2: send us an email too. Send it off to stuff

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00:48:20,719 --> 00:48:25,360
Speaker 2: Podcasts at iHeartRadio dot com.

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00:48:25,520 --> 00:48:28,400
Speaker 1: Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For

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00:48:28,480 --> 00:48:32,640
Speaker 1: more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

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00:48:32,760 --> 00:48:34,600
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.