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Speaker 1: Hey, guys, ready or not, twenty twenty four is here

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Speaker 1: and we here at Breaking Points, are already thinking of

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Speaker 1: ways we can up our game for this critical election.

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Speaker 1: We rely on our premium subs to expand coverage, upgrade

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Speaker 1: the studio ad staff give you, guys, the best independent

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Speaker 1: coverage that is possible. If you like what we're all about,

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Speaker 1: it means the absolute world to have your support. What

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Speaker 1: are you waiting for? Become a premium subscriber today at

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Speaker 1: Breakingpoints dot com. Good morning, everybody, Happy Tuesday. Emily is

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Speaker 1: back in the house with us. Welcome again, Emily, thanks

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Speaker 1: for having me. A big shout out to Sager for

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Speaker 1: getting engaged making engagement news there. Yes, congratulations Saga. Enjoy

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Speaker 1: your time off and he will be back here on Thursday,

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Speaker 1: though we have very much enjoyed having Emily sitting in

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Speaker 1: for him. There is a lot going on this morning

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Speaker 1: to get to a big speech from Putin. It's his life,

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Speaker 1: State of the nation. Things that will break all of

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Speaker 1: that down for you. Also what I consider to be

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Speaker 1: blockbuster news, bombshell news out of Ohio that the water

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Speaker 1: testing that was used to tell residents that the water

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Speaker 1: was safe and clean for them to drink. It was

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Speaker 1: conducted by consultants paid by the railroad company themselves. This

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Speaker 1: is what the EPA is basing their assessment on. I

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Speaker 1: don't know how you can do that, so we'll talk

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Speaker 1: about that. We also have someone on the ground, Richmond Q,

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Speaker 1: fantastic reporter too, tell us what he is seeing their

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Speaker 1: big Supreme Court cases, oral arguments being heard this week

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Speaker 1: about the future of tech and the Internet project. Veritas

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Speaker 1: founder and sort of the figurehead there, James o'keith is

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Speaker 1: officially out Marjorie Taylor Green calling for a national divorce

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Speaker 1: really going there. Let's talk about that one. Yeah, why not?

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Speaker 1: And then we've got some crazy texts that were revealed

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Speaker 1: from Fox News stars, people like Tucker Carls and Sean Hannity,

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Speaker 1: Laura ingram I kind of reveal how they think about

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Speaker 1: their job, how they think about their audience, how they

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Speaker 1: think about Donald Trump. And we also have news that

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Speaker 1: all of the January sixth video is going to be

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Speaker 1: released to Tucker Carlson, So what does that ultimately mean.

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Speaker 1: First time on the show, we've got Dave Weigel, political

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Speaker 1: reporter for Semaphore. He's going to break down what he

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Speaker 1: is seeing so far in the GOP primary. But we

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Speaker 1: wanted to start with breaking news this morning, Vladimir Putin

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Speaker 1: delivering his State of the Nation address. This is very

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Speaker 1: closely watched. This comes. The context here is that the

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Speaker 1: war this Friday will hear hit its one year anniversary

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Speaker 1: when Russia invaded Ukraine. We of course covered yesterday President

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Speaker 1: Biden making a surprise trip into the active war zone,

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Speaker 1: meeting with Selenski himself in Kiev. He is in Poland

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Speaker 1: today he is expected to give his own address, so

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Speaker 1: the White House trying to go for sort of like

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Speaker 1: a split screen moment here. In terms of what Putin

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Speaker 1: actually said, most of it was retreading ground that we've

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Speaker 1: heard before. He once again was talking about, you know,

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Speaker 1: if we're sending longer range missiles, that they're going to

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Speaker 1: have to respond in kind, So this sort of like

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Speaker 1: inflammatory rhetoric. There were a few veiled nuclear threats involved

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Speaker 1: in there. But the biggest news I think out of

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Speaker 1: this that actually has real world policy implications is Russia

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Speaker 1: is officially withdrawing from the New Start Arms Controlled Treaty.

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Speaker 1: This was like the final remaining arms control treaty that

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Speaker 1: we were still involved with. Now inspections with regards that

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Speaker 1: had been paused since the pandemic, but still obviously a

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Speaker 1: negative sign and development that Russia is now officially withdrawing.

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Speaker 1: Was it surprising to you, Uh, not in particular, but

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Speaker 1: no surprising that he rolled it out in the speech

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Speaker 1: at this time. Also, I don't think it's particularly surprising,

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Speaker 1: but it is an interesting bit of timing. Yeah, to me,

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Speaker 1: I guess I was actually surprised that the speech didn't

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Speaker 1: contain more new rhetoric aggressive. Yeah, I mean I think

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Speaker 1: a lot of people, myself included, were kind of watching

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Speaker 1: this closely. Saga. Actually, my gosh, I'm away. It was like,

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Speaker 1: you know, if he's on a different time zone, so

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Speaker 1: he's of like live texting us like updates of the speech.

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Speaker 1: So this was very closely watched. So the fact that

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Speaker 1: ultimately it was a very kind of status quo speech

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Speaker 1: from Putin in terms of rhetoric that we've heard before.

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Speaker 1: He blames the West for the war, says said something like,

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Speaker 1: you know, we're enforcing the peace with force or something

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Speaker 1: that doesn't make any sense like that, and he you know,

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Speaker 1: used the same type of rhetoric about responding in kind

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Speaker 1: if there's escalation, but beyond that, there was no real

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Speaker 1: new ground tread here. He did refer to it as

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Speaker 1: a war, which is kind of, you know, new and different,

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Speaker 1: but not all that shocking either. So I think the

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Speaker 1: other thing to watch will be, of course, today when

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Speaker 1: President Biden gives his speech later today in Poland, to

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Speaker 1: see what he announces, if there's additional military aid or

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Speaker 1: any revelations about his conversation with Selenski, et cetera. So

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Speaker 1: we'll definitely keep an eye on that. Yeah, super interesting,

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Speaker 1: and on the one year anniversary both sides to watch

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Speaker 1: the split screen as you said, Biden and Poland Zelensky

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Speaker 1: as he's been talking about the one year anniversary too.

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Speaker 1: Just a big week. Yeah. The other news that I

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Speaker 1: saw this morning is you already had a number of

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Speaker 1: voices out of the UK calling for the shipment of

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Speaker 1: fighter jets, which of course would be a dramatic escalation

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Speaker 1: far beyond what was contemplated in the early days of

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Speaker 1: this war from the US and NATO allies. Liz Trusts,

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Speaker 1: the former Prime minister briefly, very briefly in office. Famously,

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Speaker 1: it did not outlast ahead of Lettuce anyway. She is

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Speaker 1: now adding her voice to those who want fighter jets

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Speaker 1: to be shipped to Ukraine. So there's continued escalatory pressure

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Speaker 1: from voices in the UK, certainly voices in the US.

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Speaker 1: Yesterday I mentioned Lindsay Grahams and er Lindsay Graham, who

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Speaker 1: was sort of famously hawkish, has been calling for the same,

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Speaker 1: So those pressures continue. This comes in the wake of

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Speaker 1: really getting confirmation of how the US acted directly along

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Speaker 1: with their Needo allies early roughly a year ago, to

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Speaker 1: circumvent any sort of peace process from ultimately unfolding. And

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Speaker 1: so that's where we are now. Russia is started a

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Speaker 1: spring offensive. Zelensky has been traveling around Europe and obviously

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Speaker 1: was here in the US as well making his case

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Speaker 1: for additional weapons shipment. So we'll see what Biden has

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Speaker 1: to say about all of this today, and we'll certainly

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Speaker 1: keep an eye on it. Yeah, I'm excited to hear

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Speaker 1: what Sager has to say on Thursday. Absolutely all right,

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Speaker 1: So let's get to some domestic affairs here, because the

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Speaker 1: news out of Ohio with this horrific train derailment just

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Speaker 1: continues to get worse and worse. Let's go and put

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Speaker 1: this up on the screen. This from Stephen Donziger tweeted

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Speaker 1: this out, but this is a huffing and post article.

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Speaker 1: He says, breaking the EPA claim that water in Ohio

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Speaker 1: is safe to drink is based on only a few

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Speaker 1: tainted lab samples funded by the very rail company that

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Speaker 1: caused the disaster. The EPA apparently never tested the water themselves.

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Speaker 1: He asks, why does the polluter get to do the testing?

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Speaker 1: I think that is something all of us would wonder.

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Speaker 1: If you click through to the piece here, they give

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Speaker 1: a lot of details about exactly how this testing went

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Speaker 1: down and just why this is so troubling. Because they've

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Speaker 1: been telling residents it's all clear, it's all good. You

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Speaker 1: could go back to your homes, you could drink the water,

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Speaker 1: no problem, We've tested it's safe, trust US, et cetera.

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Speaker 1: And then the news breaks that they're basing that on

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Speaker 1: rail company paid consultants doing testing. And not only that,

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Speaker 1: it's not only the fact that the source of the

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Speaker 1: testing is questionable at best, but the actual samples that

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Speaker 1: were taken there's some indications that they were contaminated and

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Speaker 1: not handled according to EPA standards. So let me go

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Speaker 1: ahead and read a little bit of this article to

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Speaker 1: you guys, so you can get a sense of it.

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Speaker 1: So they start with the news that the state used

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Speaker 1: preliminary results from railroad funded sampling to declare that the

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Speaker 1: drinking water was safe in the wake of the toxic spill.

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Speaker 1: Ohio Governor Mike DeWine, who's Republican, on Wednesday afternoon announced

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Speaker 1: that new testing from five wells that supplied the town's

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Speaker 1: municipal drinking water showed no evidence of contamination. With these results,

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Speaker 1: he says, Ohio EPA is confident that the municipal water

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Speaker 1: is safe to drink, But on its web page about

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Speaker 1: the derailment, the Ohio EPA links only to railroad funded

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Speaker 1: preliminary test results. That's the basis that they used for

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Speaker 1: this press statement from Mike DeWine that it's all good.

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Speaker 1: The municipal water is safe to drink. The Colombiana County,

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Speaker 1: which is the county that East Palestine is located in,

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Speaker 1: their general Health district, they separately sampled East Palestine's public

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Speaker 1: water system last week, but at least as of when

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Speaker 1: this article was written a few days ago, the county's

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Speaker 1: testing results had not been made public, so the only

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Speaker 1: results that have been made public are these railroad funded

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Speaker 1: water testing results. The lab report on the railroad funded

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Speaker 1: sampling indicates the samples were not handled in accordance with

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Speaker 1: federal EPA standards. Sam Bickley, who's an aquatic ecologist of

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Speaker 1: Virginia Scientist, Community Interface and Advocacy focused coalition of scientists

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Speaker 1: and engineers, he's the one who alerted huff Post to

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Speaker 1: the sampling errors. He called the report extremely concerning. Quote

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Speaker 1: their results that claimed there were no contaminants is not

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Speaker 1: a reliable find. I find this extremely concerning because these

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Speaker 1: results would not be used in most scientific applications because

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Speaker 1: the samples were not preserved properly. And this is the

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Speaker 1: same data they are now relying on to say the

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Speaker 1: drinking water is not contaminated. To be clear, the federal

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Speaker 1: EPA has not done its own sampling of municipal water

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Speaker 1: and needs Palestine, during a press call with reporters Friday,

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Speaker 1: and official and the Biden administration said all the sambling

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Speaker 1: that has been done in Ohio has been jointed, not

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Speaker 1: Norfolk Southern alone. It's been with the Columbiaana County Health

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Speaker 1: Department collecting samples along with Northfolk Southern and sending those

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Speaker 1: a split samples to do different labs for verification. So

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Speaker 1: that is their defense here, and Emily, this comes as

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Speaker 1: actually the EPA administrator, Michael Reagan is finally in Ohio

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Speaker 1: today to visit with residents there, long overdue. But this

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Speaker 1: follows a playbook of cover up that we have seen

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Speaker 1: so many times before, and it's something that a lot

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Speaker 1: of social media users were actually warning about. When you

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Speaker 1: see these sort of catastrophes, industrial accidents, et cetera, there

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Speaker 1: is a common playbook that plays out where first the

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Speaker 1: company is relied on for analysis of what's going on,

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Speaker 1: the politicians echo whatever the company is saying, and then

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Speaker 1: the media just echoes whatever the politicians are saying. So

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Speaker 1: the whole narrative comes from the person and the group

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Speaker 1: that are most interested in downplaying the severity of what

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Speaker 1: exactly is going on. Right, the media will then repeat

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Speaker 1: claims that have been sort of falsely baked together with

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Speaker 1: just credulty, don't worry about it. We've looked into this. Now.

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Speaker 1: Here's another, I think extremely disturbing quote from the huff

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Speaker 1: Post article, which is a great piece of journalism. James Lee,

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Speaker 1: a spokesman for Ohio EPA, acknowledged the samples were not

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Speaker 1: properly preserved or acidified, but said they were quote acceptable

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Speaker 1: due to the next day processing at the laboratory. There

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Speaker 1: is also a spokesperson from Norfolk Southern quoted in the

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Speaker 1: article saying that the initial data was valid, we wanted

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Speaker 1: to ensure it compliance with EPA standards and proactively asked

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Speaker 1: the lab to rerun the samples with the remaining preserved

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Speaker 1: vile from each sample. So again, these are the players

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Speaker 1: who are sort of barely admitting that this is not

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Speaker 1: an ideal set of samples. The Ohio government was not

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Speaker 1: at all upfront about potential problems with these samples might

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Speaker 1: to wine. I mean, it's incredible people should know if

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Speaker 1: they're making the decision to drink this water exactly who

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Speaker 1: tested the results, Who came to the conclusion that said

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Speaker 1: it was okay to do that. I bet a whole

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Speaker 1: lot of people would have made different decisions based on

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Speaker 1: that information. Well, and the question remains, okay, if the

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Speaker 1: county did their own testing, where are those results? We

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Speaker 1: still do those being made public? So this is deeply

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Speaker 1: troubling because these residents deserve, you know, every level of

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Speaker 1: scrutiny to the situation in order to protect their health,

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Speaker 1: both in the near and the long term. And you know,

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Speaker 1: the government pretends like, oh that we really know what's

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Speaker 1: going on here in the media just parents this line,

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Speaker 1: we're taking a look or the week in the New

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Speaker 1: York Times wrote this piece that made me so mad

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Speaker 1: about basically trying to frame everybody who was concerned about

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Speaker 1: this ongoing crisis as you have residents continuing to say nausea,

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Speaker 1: skin rashes, headaches, dizziness, trying to frame everybody who's concerned

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Speaker 1: about that as a quote unquote right wing conspiracy theorist.

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Speaker 1: And if you read through that article, you know there

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Speaker 1: was a way to write an article about people who

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Speaker 1: were going way too far spinning conspiracies where there's no evidence, etc.

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Speaker 1: But they didn't do that. Instead, they just smear in

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Speaker 1: everyone who was concerned of this, and they completely regurgitated

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Speaker 1: the government official line about what was going on with

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Speaker 1: zero skepticism about issues exactly like this, Like where is

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Speaker 1: this journalism in the New York Times? And if you're

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Speaker 1: going to pairent the government line, I mean, you're supposed

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Speaker 1: to be journalists holding power to account. You don't have

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Speaker 1: many questions for government. Your message to the public is

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Speaker 1: just like, no, accept exactly what they're saying, and if

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Speaker 1: you don't, you're a right wing conspiracy theorist, absolute garbage.

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Speaker 1: At the same time, continue to be a lot of questions.

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Speaker 1: So we just talked about the water. There's continue to

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Speaker 1: be a lot of questions about the air quality. There

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Speaker 1: are lawsuits that are being filed left and right. Here,

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Speaker 1: let's go and put this up on the screen. The

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Speaker 1: sixth lawsuit claims quote controlled chemical release worsened the East

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Speaker 1: Palestine situation. The suit alleges that burning vinyl chloride creates

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Speaker 1: phose gene gas, a chemical warfare agent used in World

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Speaker 1: War One. By the way, this isn't like wild speculation.

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Speaker 1: That is what is created when you burn vital chloride.

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Speaker 1: So the question is, you know, the government claims ow,

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Speaker 1: it's all dispersed, everything's fine now, residents continue to have

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Speaker 1: health impacts and very worried about the future. The details

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Speaker 1: here are. The complaint was filed on Wednesday in the

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Speaker 1: US District Court by an injury firm. They alleged the

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Speaker 1: railroad dump more than one point one million pounds of

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Speaker 1: vinyl chloride into the environment during the incident. They claim

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Speaker 1: that amount of that emission of the toxic chemical was

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Speaker 1: more than two times the total amount of vinyl chloride

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Speaker 1: that is released by all US industries over an entire year,

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Speaker 1: and they alleged that burning vinyl chloride creates phosgene gas,

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Speaker 1: a chemical warfare agent used in World War One that

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Speaker 1: was banned by the Geneva Connection Convention. Sorry quote from

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Speaker 1: the attorney here, I'm not sure Norfolk Southern could have

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Speaker 1: come up with a worse plan to address this disaster.

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Speaker 1: Residents exposed to vital chloride may already be undergoing DNA

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Speaker 1: mutations that can linger for years or even decades before

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Speaker 1: manifesting as terrible and deadly cancers. The lawsuit allegis in

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Speaker 1: Norfolk Southern made it worse by essentially blasting the town

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Speaker 1: with chemicals as they focused on restoring train service and

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Speaker 1: protecting their shareholders. Authlready say they undertook what they called

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Speaker 1: a quote controlled release of unstable chemicals to prevent a

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Speaker 1: possible explosion at the derailment scene. And of course, vinyl

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Speaker 1: chloride is a known carcinogen, and as was previously stated,

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Speaker 1: this type of gas was banned by the gene Convention

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Speaker 1: because of its toxic nature well, and this is something

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Speaker 1: that gets to the water as well. And a lot

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Speaker 1: of people probably remember this with nine to eleven, for

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Speaker 1: responders and people that were around the crisis, seen around

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Speaker 1: ground zero on nine to eleven and the weeks and

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Speaker 1: months afterwards. Is that we don't know. We really don't

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Speaker 1: know the scope of the tragedy until years later. We

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Speaker 1: don't know the scope of the effects of some of

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Speaker 1: these cancer causing chemicals, of some of the chemicals in general,

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Speaker 1: whether they're in the air or the water. Yes, So

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Speaker 1: for the confidence to be projected by Mike de Wine,

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Speaker 1: the Ohio EPA, Norfolk Southern, which of course their interest

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Speaker 1: in this is obvious. You understand why they would be

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Speaker 1: doing that, But for that confluence between the government and

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Speaker 1: the private company here to be projecting that level of

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Speaker 1: confidence instead of meeting people where they are, which is

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Speaker 1: terrified that they're going to have effects from this down

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Speaker 1: the road years from now. That can't even be calculated

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Speaker 1: right now or understood right now. I think it's just

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Speaker 1: on a political level, purely political level, big swing in

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Speaker 1: a miss, an obvious mistake, but even on a moral level,

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Speaker 1: I mean, we have no idea truly no idea, what's

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Speaker 1: going to happen. Yes, that's exactly right. And I can't

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Speaker 1: imagine being a resident of this town wondering if you

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Speaker 1: can go back to your home, wondering if it's safe

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Speaker 1: to drink the water and breathe the air your pet. Yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 1: We played for you guys last week, Jordan Chariton. They've

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Speaker 1: been on the ground and status kup our partners and

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Speaker 1: he interviewed a foxkeeper who one of his foxes had

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Speaker 1: already died and all the others were sickened. Another one

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Speaker 1: has now passed away. So people and these you know,

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Speaker 1: you guys know how people feel about their pets. I'm

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Speaker 1: sure you feel the same way about your pets. I mean,

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Speaker 1: these are important parts parts of your family and to

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Speaker 1: watch them be killed by this incident and just to

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Speaker 1: hand wave away, Oh it's safe now and don't worry

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Speaker 1: about it. It's just it's a disgrace. It's an absolute betrayal.

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Speaker 1: And you know, there's a couple other things to say

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Speaker 1: about this. One is we now, with this horrific accident,

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Speaker 1: have kind of tracked where the corruption started. You know,

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Speaker 1: back in the year the Obama administration, at least with

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Speaker 1: regards to this specific tale. Okay, the Obama administration wanted

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Speaker 1: to institute more safety regulations. That was great, but then

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Speaker 1: industry comes in to sort of curtail and undermine what

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Speaker 1: the NTSB had said what the restriction should ultimately be.

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Speaker 1: So there's a curtailing of the initial ambition under the

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Speaker 1: Obama administration be more industry friendly. Under the Trump administration,

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Speaker 1: you see that go even further. They roll back some

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Speaker 1: of the REGs that were put in place in the

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Speaker 1: Obama administration. Under the Biden administration, you actually see rail

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Speaker 1: workers really rising up saying calling attention to major potential

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Speaker 1: safety issues, not only in terms of their own lives,

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Speaker 1: but in terms of the potential impacts on these communities.

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Speaker 1: And you see a bipartisan effort, but led by Democrats

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Speaker 1: to crush this movement and silence their warnings and side

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Speaker 1: ultimately with the railroad executives and the shareholders. And you

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Speaker 1: also see they don't do anything to put back in

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Speaker 1: place the regulations that had been curtailed by Obama and

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Speaker 1: rolled back by Trump. So you can see this tale

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Speaker 1: of how industry shaped the shape the landscape to make

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Speaker 1: it friendly for them. But what you realize in looking

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Speaker 1: at this is god, how many other instances throughout our country,

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Speaker 1: you know, where this is going on, where whether it's

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Speaker 1: big oil or big chemicals, or big pharma or big

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Speaker 1: agg or whatever. I mean, this is happening every single

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Speaker 1: day with our government and the people who are supposed

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Speaker 1: to be keeping us safe, who are more interested about

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Speaker 1: you know, campaign contribution or more interested in what their

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Speaker 1: next job is going to be aft they leave the

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Speaker 1: EPA or whatever their agency they're at, instead of making

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Speaker 1: sure that people are kept safe today. And I think

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Speaker 1: for you know, broader picture zooming out from Ohio, that's

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Speaker 1: what is so incredibly incredibly troubling about this story is

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Speaker 1: because you realize that this is really just scratching the

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Speaker 1: surface of the way that the whole system has been

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Speaker 1: rigged to generate profits for a few over the health

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Speaker 1: and safety of communities across the country. And by the way,

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Speaker 1: final thought on this, that's why the media is I

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Speaker 1: think the same biggest problem in American politics because business,

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Speaker 1: industry government can't get away with that level of collusion

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Speaker 1: when you have a healthy fourth estate that's going forth

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Speaker 1: the state. And so when people kind of roll their

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Speaker 1: eyes about media bashing, actually Without a strong media, you

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Speaker 1: don't get this level of corruption and collusion because the

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Speaker 1: media creates an incentive for the industry and the government

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Speaker 1: partner with the industry not to behave badly. So to

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Speaker 1: your point about where we might know this, where we

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Speaker 1: might not know this is happening. What we didn't know

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Speaker 1: this was happening for years because the corporate press wasn't

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Speaker 1: covering it. I mean, seriously, we have no idea how

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Speaker 1: many other places in the like you were saying, whether

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Speaker 1: it's big a big pharma. Where should media be looking

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Speaker 1: right now to create disincentives for people to behave badly

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Speaker 1: and to give public the public information they need to

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Speaker 1: vote wisely, to shop wisely, all of these different things.

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Speaker 1: When you don't have that, you don't have a functioning system. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and Insteady of the New York Times literally running cover

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Speaker 1: for the government and saying that anyone who questions them

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Speaker 1: is a whack job, is outrageous. We want to stay

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Speaker 1: with this story. We've got Rich mcchey is a fantastic

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Speaker 1: investigative reporter. He's with News Nation now. He is on

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Speaker 1: the ground in East Palestine. Let's get to it. Rich,

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Speaker 1: is so great to see you welcome. Hey, thanks for

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Speaker 1: having me on. Good to see you. Yeah, our pleasure.

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Speaker 1: So you've been there on the ground in East Palestine, Ohio,

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Speaker 1: just give us a sense of how residents are feeling

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Speaker 1: and what you're hearing from them. Residents are angry, you know,

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Speaker 1: they feel like the people that I've spoken to at

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Speaker 1: least feel like they've been forgotten. They you know, here

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Speaker 1: we are, we're approaching three weeks and they say help

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Speaker 1: is finally just coming. And you know, walking around and

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Speaker 1: talking to folks here, there's a lot of talk that

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Speaker 1: like Fema is here and people are here and like,

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Speaker 1: but but that's not we haven't seen that. There's people

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Speaker 1: hanging out water in townspeople helping town, the other people

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Speaker 1: in town. But like in terms of actual help, it's

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Speaker 1: it's not everywhere, not like a normal disaster, you know,

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Speaker 1: setting like where you go in and you see all

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Speaker 1: these all these stations and people helping. I'm outside of

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Speaker 1: a church right now where they're just opening this morning

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Speaker 1: a health clinic and people are starting to file in

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Speaker 1: nurses and toxicologists, and then apparently there's twenty at least

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Speaker 1: twenty people signed up to come here this morning and

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Speaker 1: get themselves checked out. So it's you know, the residents

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Speaker 1: I've talked to you are angry. They say they're just

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Speaker 1: not getting helped, their homes are not getting tested. They

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Speaker 1: are saying, this is Norfolks, so other is handling this

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Speaker 1: the wrong way and they need help. Well, on that note, Rich,

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Speaker 1: you've been tweeting us some really I think disturbing images.

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Speaker 1: We have one that we can put up on the

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Speaker 1: street and the screen here just tracking what people are

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Speaker 1: saying the effects this may have had on their bodies.

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Speaker 1: It's it's very early to know exactly the extent of

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Speaker 1: all of that, but can you share with us more,

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Speaker 1: you know, examples like this, what are you hearing about

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Speaker 1: people's health? What examples have you encountered of how this

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Speaker 1: might have affected people's health? You know, I went to, uh,

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Speaker 1: there's a church set up where Norfolk Southern is set

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Speaker 1: up to kind of try and reimburse people for hotels

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Speaker 1: and assistants like that, and I went there to interview

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Speaker 1: people on that and one guy stopped me. He's like, listen,

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Speaker 1: his eyes were bloodshot and red, and like He's like,

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Speaker 1: I my eyes feel like they're going to pop out

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Speaker 1: of my head. He's like every time I sneeze, it's

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Speaker 1: like bloody. He's like, I'm like, have you gone to

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Speaker 1: the hospitals? Had a time? We don't have time to

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Speaker 1: do this. So I interviewed this other woman last week.

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Speaker 1: She called me and she said, look, I just went

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Speaker 1: back to my house. They'd been a vacuu that I

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Speaker 1: just went back to my house to move something around.

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Speaker 1: And she's like, I was there for thirty minutes. And

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Speaker 1: I walked and I went to go take a shower,

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Speaker 1: and that's the picture that you that you should that

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Speaker 1: you have. Her face and her neck was all covered

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Speaker 1: in rashes. And so I went over there and she

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Speaker 1: asked me if I wanted to go into that part

431
00:22:54,160 --> 00:22:56,760
Speaker 1: of the house that where she feels like she was exposed.

432
00:22:56,760 --> 00:22:59,280
Speaker 1: I was like, I'm not going in there, Like, nobody's

433
00:22:59,320 --> 00:23:01,760
Speaker 1: tested there, nobody knows what's residing in It was a

434
00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:03,919
Speaker 1: low level part of the house where she was in

435
00:23:03,920 --> 00:23:06,000
Speaker 1: the direct line of the smoke the night that they

436
00:23:06,240 --> 00:23:08,480
Speaker 1: kind of did the chemical release. So a lot of

437
00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:12,240
Speaker 1: these houses have not been tested. Nobody really knows what

438
00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:14,720
Speaker 1: is actually in them and if their houses are safe.

439
00:23:15,880 --> 00:23:19,440
Speaker 1: There's just a lot of questions you had. I think

440
00:23:19,480 --> 00:23:24,600
Speaker 1: an important story for News Nation about how East Palestine

441
00:23:24,800 --> 00:23:29,680
Speaker 1: residents were asked by Norfolk Southern to sign an indemnity form,

442
00:23:29,720 --> 00:23:33,280
Speaker 1: a whole harmless form. Your lead here, you say, just

443
00:23:33,280 --> 00:23:36,600
Speaker 1: weeks after a training caring toxic chemicals derailed these Palestine, Ohio.

444
00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:38,840
Speaker 1: Some residents say they're being asked to sign contracts they

445
00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:42,119
Speaker 1: fear could prevent them from suing later on. So basically

446
00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:46,000
Speaker 1: Norfolk Southern here trying to do a little cya and

447
00:23:46,119 --> 00:23:49,840
Speaker 1: convince residents to sign this contract that could prevent them

448
00:23:50,080 --> 00:23:53,199
Speaker 1: from suing the company. What does the companies line on this?

449
00:23:53,280 --> 00:23:57,880
Speaker 1: And what are residents saying about it? So the residents say,

450
00:23:58,040 --> 00:24:01,000
Speaker 1: like we spokes do say. Initially they came around, they

451
00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:03,200
Speaker 1: said we want to test your house, and they said, well,

452
00:24:03,880 --> 00:24:06,640
Speaker 1: who's this And it was like apparently the EPA was there,

453
00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:10,159
Speaker 1: but representatives like aligned with Norfolk Southern were there, and

454
00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:12,160
Speaker 1: so in order to have your house tested, you had

455
00:24:12,160 --> 00:24:14,760
Speaker 1: to sign this form. And one woman who was you know,

456
00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:17,640
Speaker 1: kind of smart legally and said, I'm not signing this form.

457
00:24:17,680 --> 00:24:19,679
Speaker 1: What is this? Can I have it? And it wouldn't

458
00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:21,720
Speaker 1: give it sor so she took a picture, she gave

459
00:24:21,760 --> 00:24:23,920
Speaker 1: it to me and basically it's a whole harmless agreement

460
00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:27,200
Speaker 1: saying you, if you agree to this testing, you'll hold

461
00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:29,800
Speaker 1: us harmless as we enter your property and for any

462
00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:34,040
Speaker 1: like basically future litigation. We asked Norfolk Southern about this

463
00:24:34,119 --> 00:24:38,040
Speaker 1: and they said, no, some of those were sent out

464
00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:41,639
Speaker 1: by mistake. Those that language indemnity language should not have

465
00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:45,240
Speaker 1: been included going forward. It was a mistake. And so

466
00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:48,640
Speaker 1: they basically said it was a mistake and any any

467
00:24:48,760 --> 00:24:51,600
Speaker 1: people who did sign this will have not waived their

468
00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:55,840
Speaker 1: right to future litigation. So you just touched on something

469
00:24:55,880 --> 00:24:58,760
Speaker 1: really interesting is this was mistakenly sent out by the state,

470
00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:01,040
Speaker 1: et cetera, et cetera. And we know the Ohio EPA,

471
00:25:01,119 --> 00:25:04,120
Speaker 1: as you mentioned earlier, and FEMA. There are people who

472
00:25:04,119 --> 00:25:06,720
Speaker 1: are down there at least attempting to look like they're

473
00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:08,639
Speaker 1: helping out, and maybe helping out to some extent. But

474
00:25:08,680 --> 00:25:12,119
Speaker 1: when you're talking to people rich you mentioned they're frustrated

475
00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:15,240
Speaker 1: at Norfolk Southern. Are they also frustrated at the government.

476
00:25:15,280 --> 00:25:18,119
Speaker 1: Are they frustrated at the governor? Are they frustrated at

477
00:25:18,119 --> 00:25:22,280
Speaker 1: the EPA? What are people sentiments towards their own government

478
00:25:22,359 --> 00:25:26,919
Speaker 1: right now? I think they're frustrated at everybody. They're they're like,

479
00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:30,399
Speaker 1: you know, one gentleman I interviewed called me this morning

480
00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:32,720
Speaker 1: and asked me, like, where do I go for this

481
00:25:32,840 --> 00:25:35,520
Speaker 1: health screen? How do I how do I get tested?

482
00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:39,800
Speaker 1: There's just there's not a really centralized kind of blast

483
00:25:39,840 --> 00:25:42,280
Speaker 1: out to this community, like here's where they can go

484
00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:44,000
Speaker 1: for your health screenings, here's where you can go to

485
00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:47,399
Speaker 1: for this. Like they're having to hunt and gather this

486
00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:50,480
Speaker 1: information in a way that when you kind of cover

487
00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:54,600
Speaker 1: other disasters or tornado rips through a town, it's all

488
00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:59,040
Speaker 1: centralized and people have access to this information. Here, it

489
00:25:59,080 --> 00:26:01,959
Speaker 1: doesn't feel like that to me, that's my impression. And

490
00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:04,760
Speaker 1: people are upset. They're upset at the governor, they're upset

491
00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:08,160
Speaker 1: at the EPA. They're just like this is totally bungled

492
00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:10,480
Speaker 1: from the start, and here we are three weeks later

493
00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:13,440
Speaker 1: and we're kind of in the same scenario. These people

494
00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:15,320
Speaker 1: are like, look, the only people that have come to

495
00:26:15,359 --> 00:26:20,240
Speaker 1: my house are the mailman. So it's pappling and finally

496
00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:23,480
Speaker 1: Rich Early on in this crisis, one of your colleagues

497
00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:25,240
Speaker 1: at News Nation was trying to do his job and

498
00:26:25,320 --> 00:26:29,639
Speaker 1: ended up getting arrested during a press conference that Mike DeWine, Governor,

499
00:26:29,800 --> 00:26:33,320
Speaker 1: was giving at that time. Have you had any trouble

500
00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:36,000
Speaker 1: or roadblocks to doing your job as a journalist while

501
00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:39,439
Speaker 1: you're on the ground there. I can't say that I

502
00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:43,359
Speaker 1: have since that, you know, look the video speak for

503
00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:46,400
Speaker 1: itself on that with Evan and my colleague, I think

504
00:26:46,440 --> 00:26:50,520
Speaker 1: you handled himself well. From my experience here in town, No,

505
00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:54,520
Speaker 1: I've been. There's been no hindrances. There's been nothing to

506
00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:57,280
Speaker 1: say that I can't continue my job, although we are

507
00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:01,480
Speaker 1: you know, we have our guard up because of what happened. Yeah, absolutely, well, Rich,

508
00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:03,919
Speaker 1: thank you for spending some time with us today, and

509
00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:05,879
Speaker 1: most importantly, thank you so much for being there on

510
00:27:05,920 --> 00:27:08,719
Speaker 1: the ground, dooing real reporting about exactly what is going on.

511
00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:13,760
Speaker 1: Thank you appreciate having me on our pleasure today. Tuesday,

512
00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:17,600
Speaker 1: the Supreme Court is hearing oral arguments in a major case.

513
00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:21,439
Speaker 1: It's called Gonzales. The Gonzalez and at stake is Section

514
00:27:21,560 --> 00:27:24,280
Speaker 1: two thirty itself. You've probably heard a lot about Section

515
00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:28,320
Speaker 1: two thirty in recent years. It basically shields internet companies

516
00:27:28,359 --> 00:27:32,119
Speaker 1: from liability for harmful content that gets posted on their platform.

517
00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:35,480
Speaker 1: Now here's the Washington Post's quick summary of the case

518
00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:39,240
Speaker 1: quote in November twenty fifteen, three rifle wielding isis gunman

519
00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:41,679
Speaker 1: open fire at a restaurant in Paris, killing twenty three

520
00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:45,520
Speaker 1: year old Nohemi Gonzalez, a college exchange student. Almost eight

521
00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:48,480
Speaker 1: years later, her family is seeking justice for her death,

522
00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:53,560
Speaker 1: targeting not the gunman but the tech giant YouTube, in

523
00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:59,040
Speaker 1: a landmark case that could shift the foundations of internet law. Now, Chris, So,

524
00:27:59,119 --> 00:28:01,399
Speaker 1: there is something important and about Section two thirty I

525
00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:03,440
Speaker 1: think to recognize, which is that a lot of these

526
00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:06,240
Speaker 1: big tech giants at this point, Facebook, for instance, has

527
00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:09,639
Speaker 1: been running ads like in axios for a year saying

528
00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:12,440
Speaker 1: we're okay with Section two thirty reform because they now

529
00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:14,720
Speaker 1: know that they have the financial resources to kind of

530
00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:16,479
Speaker 1: handle it. They've had a long time to figure out

531
00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:18,840
Speaker 1: where to go with it. There's no question it would

532
00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:21,919
Speaker 1: hurt them, but they're also sort of prepared for what

533
00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:25,919
Speaker 1: might happen with Section two thirty now, any regulatory changes

534
00:28:25,960 --> 00:28:28,920
Speaker 1: happening through a court decision. On the other hand, there's

535
00:28:28,920 --> 00:28:31,840
Speaker 1: nothing they can do to lobby the Supreme Court. There's

536
00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:34,920
Speaker 1: really nothing that they can do to predict what might

537
00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:37,800
Speaker 1: come out of this case, what might come out of

538
00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:40,960
Speaker 1: the arguments. The arguments today should give us some indication

539
00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:45,240
Speaker 1: of how this case will unfold. Obviously, it's a pretty

540
00:28:45,280 --> 00:28:49,360
Speaker 1: business friendly Supreme Court, so Google has that going for it.

541
00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:54,000
Speaker 1: But Section two thirty. Clarence Thomas has come out against

542
00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:56,520
Speaker 1: basically Section two thirty. He said that maybe we should

543
00:28:56,520 --> 00:29:01,360
Speaker 1: have a different approach, We should maybe be treating them

544
00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:05,520
Speaker 1: like common carriers. These tech giants, like common carriers Google, Facebook, Twitter,

545
00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:08,760
Speaker 1: they want in general to not be considered publishers, even

546
00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:11,720
Speaker 1: though they do all kinds of publishing, whether it's on

547
00:29:11,800 --> 00:29:14,840
Speaker 1: the search engine itself, whether it's through YouTube. What they're

548
00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:19,000
Speaker 1: doing fundamentally is publishing, and Section two thirty allows them

549
00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:21,520
Speaker 1: to do that without the liabilities that news outlets have

550
00:29:21,920 --> 00:29:25,720
Speaker 1: when they publish hard, full information. This is a fascinating, fascinating,

551
00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:29,280
Speaker 1: fascinating case because we're talking about life and death right, well,

552
00:29:29,280 --> 00:29:33,880
Speaker 1: we're also it's also one of these weird, interesting horseshoe

553
00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:37,840
Speaker 1: issues because there's a critique of Section two thirty from

554
00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:40,640
Speaker 1: the right, and there's a critique of Section two thirty

555
00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:44,920
Speaker 1: from the left. Oftentimes the right focuses on and I

556
00:29:44,920 --> 00:29:47,920
Speaker 1: think these concerns, by the way, are justified on the

557
00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:53,000
Speaker 1: ability of platforms like YouTube or Twitter or Facebook or

558
00:29:53,160 --> 00:29:58,360
Speaker 1: Google to discriminate against creators and against content based on

559
00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:02,760
Speaker 1: political ideology. The reality is they have cart blotch to

560
00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:06,400
Speaker 1: do whatever they want with their recommendation algorithms. And so

561
00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:09,720
Speaker 1: the critique from a lot of liberals and democrats is

562
00:30:09,760 --> 00:30:14,400
Speaker 1: that they aren't doing enough to combat harmful content, misinformation, etc. Etc.

563
00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:18,400
Speaker 1: And so the context here in terms of when this

564
00:30:18,480 --> 00:30:22,480
Speaker 1: little provision was originally enacted, this was in the early

565
00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:25,600
Speaker 1: days of the Internet. It was kind of before these

566
00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:30,920
Speaker 1: companies had become gigantic monopolies. It was before recommendation algorithms

567
00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:34,480
Speaker 1: began to drive literally everything in terms of content distribution

568
00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:37,920
Speaker 1: on the web, really before social media too correct. So

569
00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:41,000
Speaker 1: this was really more they were thinking about these message

570
00:30:41,040 --> 00:30:42,880
Speaker 1: boards for those of you who are old like me,

571
00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:45,480
Speaker 1: like this is where you just post and it's there,

572
00:30:45,520 --> 00:30:48,280
Speaker 1: and somebody else posts and it's there. And so they

573
00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:51,240
Speaker 1: really were aimed more at a concern that if these

574
00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:56,280
Speaker 1: companies had total liability as publishers placed on their heads,

575
00:30:56,280 --> 00:30:58,680
Speaker 1: then it would stifle innovation. I think those concerns, by

576
00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:01,200
Speaker 1: the way, we're justified. And in the wake of this

577
00:31:01,280 --> 00:31:05,840
Speaker 1: provision being enacted, there was, in fact an explosion of innovation,

578
00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:11,120
Speaker 1: but it also then enabled the giant monopolization of the

579
00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:15,040
Speaker 1: entire tech sector space. And so now you have critics

580
00:31:15,120 --> 00:31:18,520
Speaker 1: of Section two thirty from both the left and the right,

581
00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:23,120
Speaker 1: who are saying this should not have been interpreted as

582
00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:26,800
Speaker 1: carte blanche. You can do whatever you want. You can

583
00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:30,280
Speaker 1: manipulate this algorithm however you want and serve up whatever

584
00:31:30,360 --> 00:31:34,360
Speaker 1: content you want and push whatever content you want without

585
00:31:34,440 --> 00:31:38,760
Speaker 1: having any sort of responsibility as a publisher. So the

586
00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:40,840
Speaker 1: question I think that's in front of the Supreme Court

587
00:31:40,880 --> 00:31:44,600
Speaker 1: as I understand it, is are there any limiting principles here?

588
00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:47,480
Speaker 1: And basically what you know what some people who have

589
00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:51,880
Speaker 1: been thinking about this and proposing reforms. One direction you

590
00:31:51,920 --> 00:31:54,640
Speaker 1: could go is, okay, there's still an opportunity to be

591
00:31:54,880 --> 00:31:57,160
Speaker 1: held harmless of the type of content that's posted on

592
00:31:57,200 --> 00:31:59,720
Speaker 1: your platform. I think that, you know, under certain circumstances,

593
00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:01,920
Speaker 1: that makes a lot of sense. But you have to

594
00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:05,360
Speaker 1: meet certain guidelines. You have to be regular, you have

595
00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:08,920
Speaker 1: to meet certain standards that we want in terms of

596
00:32:09,040 --> 00:32:12,520
Speaker 1: having a neutral platform that serves as really kind of

597
00:32:12,520 --> 00:32:15,840
Speaker 1: the a public utility at this point in terms of

598
00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:19,080
Speaker 1: how we communicate with one another. So that's what's at

599
00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:21,240
Speaker 1: stake here. I have no idea what this court is

600
00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:24,200
Speaker 1: going to ultimately find, if they courtailed us at all,

601
00:32:24,280 --> 00:32:26,520
Speaker 1: if they send it back to Congress. I really don't

602
00:32:26,520 --> 00:32:28,959
Speaker 1: know what direction this will ultimately go in, but the

603
00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:33,040
Speaker 1: implications of it could be hugely profound. Yes, and I'm

604
00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:35,520
Speaker 1: glad this is going to be. I mean, it's actually

605
00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:39,320
Speaker 1: hard to overstate how important this is the oral arguments today,

606
00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:41,600
Speaker 1: because we're really going to get a glimpse into how

607
00:32:41,880 --> 00:32:45,040
Speaker 1: justices are grappling with these huge questions. And one thing

608
00:32:45,080 --> 00:32:47,920
Speaker 1: that our government has struggled with in the past, understandably so,

609
00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:51,720
Speaker 1: is that new technologies for older generations it's harder to

610
00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:54,640
Speaker 1: sort of be in full contact with and understand exactly

611
00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:58,880
Speaker 1: how profoundly they have changed human existence if they're not

612
00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:01,560
Speaker 1: as central to your existence because you grew up without

613
00:33:01,560 --> 00:33:03,280
Speaker 1: them and you don't sort of have the level of

614
00:33:03,320 --> 00:33:05,880
Speaker 1: tech fluency. So I'm really curious about that. But on

615
00:33:05,920 --> 00:33:09,640
Speaker 1: the other hand, this is fundamentally about publishing, and that

616
00:33:10,120 --> 00:33:12,440
Speaker 1: the insight into how the Court is thinking about publishing.

617
00:33:12,600 --> 00:33:15,760
Speaker 1: Clarence Thomas in particular, not the most vocal questioner, but

618
00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:18,400
Speaker 1: someone who has said the public utility point that you

619
00:33:18,480 --> 00:33:22,920
Speaker 1: made common carrier, the common carrier framework, treating these companies

620
00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:27,200
Speaker 1: more like phone companies than their own little independent businesses

621
00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:30,360
Speaker 1: is probably the best way to go. So I would

622
00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:32,760
Speaker 1: expect to hear that argument fleshed out from who I

623
00:33:32,800 --> 00:33:35,520
Speaker 1: considered one of the most important legal thinkers. I mean,

624
00:33:35,560 --> 00:33:37,360
Speaker 1: whether or not you agree with him, he definitely is.

625
00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:41,040
Speaker 1: So this is a huge day. This is really big implications.

626
00:33:41,080 --> 00:33:43,000
Speaker 1: And this is more from the Washington Post. They say

627
00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:45,840
Speaker 1: the gonzaz family's lawyers say that applying Section two thirty

628
00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:50,360
Speaker 1: two algorithmic recommendations incentivizes promoting harmful content and that it

629
00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:53,320
Speaker 1: denies victims an opportunity to seek redress when they can

630
00:33:53,360 --> 00:33:57,040
Speaker 1: show those recommendations caused injuries or even death. And that's

631
00:33:57,080 --> 00:34:00,320
Speaker 1: the publisher point that you're making this argument about how

632
00:34:00,320 --> 00:34:03,120
Speaker 1: they serve up things with their algorithms. They also put

633
00:34:03,240 --> 00:34:06,280
Speaker 1: headlines on news stories. They decide which news stories to

634
00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:08,120
Speaker 1: promote in which stories not to promote. That is a

635
00:34:08,200 --> 00:34:10,560
Speaker 1: huge job if people have ever worked in news, even

636
00:34:10,560 --> 00:34:13,279
Speaker 1: if you haven't, one of the biggest things that people

637
00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:16,360
Speaker 1: don't see behind the scenes is headline writing. It is

638
00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:19,440
Speaker 1: a huge part of publishing. Story selection is a huge

639
00:34:19,440 --> 00:34:23,120
Speaker 1: part of publishing, and from the perspective of journalists, these

640
00:34:23,120 --> 00:34:25,879
Speaker 1: companies are doing all of that. They just don't have

641
00:34:26,120 --> 00:34:29,799
Speaker 1: any of the liabilities that other journalists have, and they

642
00:34:29,840 --> 00:34:33,000
Speaker 1: act like it's not journalism, so they don't take it seriously.

643
00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:35,839
Speaker 1: They just serve up the dumbest stuff, and they well,

644
00:34:35,880 --> 00:34:38,520
Speaker 1: what they serve is whatever is going to keep you

645
00:34:39,280 --> 00:34:43,319
Speaker 1: agitated and staring at their platform the longest, so that

646
00:34:43,360 --> 00:34:46,280
Speaker 1: they can serve up the ads that are the real

647
00:34:46,760 --> 00:34:49,160
Speaker 1: core of the business model. It's a slot machine, it is.

648
00:34:49,280 --> 00:34:51,560
Speaker 1: And so I mean, if you think about it and

649
00:34:51,600 --> 00:34:54,400
Speaker 1: you ask yourself, okay, should there be any limiting principle

650
00:34:54,520 --> 00:34:59,480
Speaker 1: on section two thirty, imagine a theoretical platform where the

651
00:34:59,480 --> 00:35:03,680
Speaker 1: recommendation algorithm is tuned so that the only stories that

652
00:35:03,760 --> 00:35:07,399
Speaker 1: get amplified and recommended and served to people are left

653
00:35:07,440 --> 00:35:11,600
Speaker 1: wing stories. It's only about, you know, whatever is going on.

654
00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:14,359
Speaker 1: Everything that's on the right is, you know, is sort

655
00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:17,640
Speaker 1: of hidden. It's not banned or totally censored, although they

656
00:35:17,640 --> 00:35:20,880
Speaker 1: could do that as well. And right now, the idea

657
00:35:21,040 --> 00:35:23,080
Speaker 1: is it doesn't matter. You're still not a publisher. You

658
00:35:23,120 --> 00:35:25,600
Speaker 1: still have no liability, or imagine it the other direction,

659
00:35:25,640 --> 00:35:31,000
Speaker 1: where you recommendation algorithm is designed so that it only

660
00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:34,320
Speaker 1: pumps and promotes right wing content about how great Trump

661
00:35:34,440 --> 00:35:37,319
Speaker 1: is or whatever is going on there right pizza Gate

662
00:35:37,440 --> 00:35:41,399
Speaker 1: or QAnon, whatever's hot at the moment. Can you really

663
00:35:41,440 --> 00:35:43,319
Speaker 1: look at that with a straight face and say, oh,

664
00:35:43,360 --> 00:35:46,319
Speaker 1: these are just you know, neutral common carrier platform. No,

665
00:35:46,600 --> 00:35:49,680
Speaker 1: you can't, you can't. And so then the question becomes, Okay,

666
00:35:49,880 --> 00:35:52,840
Speaker 1: what is the limiting principle? What are the rules you

667
00:35:52,920 --> 00:35:55,560
Speaker 1: have to follow? What is the business model that you

668
00:35:55,640 --> 00:35:58,800
Speaker 1: have to engage in in order to get the benefit

669
00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:02,600
Speaker 1: of what is based a giant gift and giveaway to

670
00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:06,879
Speaker 1: these companies. So I think that most people would look

671
00:36:06,920 --> 00:36:09,000
Speaker 1: at the situation and say, you know, if you think

672
00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:13,560
Speaker 1: about Fox News versus MSNBC, part of the way that

673
00:36:13,600 --> 00:36:16,319
Speaker 1: they present their very one sided views of the world

674
00:36:16,440 --> 00:36:18,520
Speaker 1: is through the type of commentators they have on the

675
00:36:18,560 --> 00:36:21,480
Speaker 1: opinion sayespros, et cetera. But a big part of how

676
00:36:21,520 --> 00:36:24,879
Speaker 1: they do it is through story selection. That's like their

677
00:36:24,920 --> 00:36:28,080
Speaker 1: own recommendation algorithm. What are they going to promote as

678
00:36:28,120 --> 00:36:30,239
Speaker 1: like the biggest problems in the world. What are they

679
00:36:30,320 --> 00:36:32,279
Speaker 1: just not going to talk about. On Fox, you're going

680
00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:33,759
Speaker 1: to get a lot of stories about, Oh, there's a

681
00:36:33,760 --> 00:36:38,120
Speaker 1: crime spike, there's an immigrant caravan, there's government spending gone wild. Whatever.

682
00:36:38,120 --> 00:36:40,120
Speaker 1: They're going to have their list, and if you're just

683
00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:42,759
Speaker 1: consuming their content, the impression you're getting of the world

684
00:36:42,920 --> 00:36:45,000
Speaker 1: is these are the core issues, these are the big

685
00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:47,879
Speaker 1: things going on in society. If you're watching MSNBC, you're

686
00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:51,720
Speaker 1: being presented a very different slate of issues to focus

687
00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:54,080
Speaker 1: on as like the biggest threats to society, the most

688
00:36:54,080 --> 00:36:57,759
Speaker 1: important issues ultimately in the world. That story selection is

689
00:36:57,920 --> 00:37:02,200
Speaker 1: really really critical to their propaganda efforts. And so we've

690
00:37:02,200 --> 00:37:06,160
Speaker 1: basically said that social media companies can do the same thing.

691
00:37:06,600 --> 00:37:09,040
Speaker 1: They can have these recommendation algorithms that there are their

692
00:37:09,080 --> 00:37:13,160
Speaker 1: own form of story selection that are dramatically much more

693
00:37:13,200 --> 00:37:15,799
Speaker 1: so than cable news at this point, shaping the way

694
00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:19,520
Speaker 1: people perceive the world and yet be totally held harmless

695
00:37:19,880 --> 00:37:23,720
Speaker 1: for any harms that come to pass from those choices

696
00:37:23,719 --> 00:37:25,879
Speaker 1: that they're ultimately making. And I think most people would

697
00:37:25,920 --> 00:37:28,920
Speaker 1: look at that and say, that's really that's ridiculous. Yes,

698
00:37:29,239 --> 00:37:32,839
Speaker 1: in my opinion, there should be an availability of you know,

699
00:37:33,160 --> 00:37:36,960
Speaker 1: section two thirty where you can avoid liability. I believe

700
00:37:36,960 --> 00:37:38,840
Speaker 1: in free speech. I believe in people being able to

701
00:37:38,880 --> 00:37:41,960
Speaker 1: post all kinds of content. But when you get into

702
00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:46,840
Speaker 1: the manipulation of what gets seen and what doesn't, that's

703
00:37:46,840 --> 00:37:48,919
Speaker 1: I think where you run into a problem where Okay,

704
00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:51,200
Speaker 1: now you really are serving as a publisher and not

705
00:37:51,360 --> 00:37:53,479
Speaker 1: just sort of a neutral platform. Well, and they've also

706
00:37:53,600 --> 00:37:57,279
Speaker 1: entered the fact checking space, and that's hugely, hugely important. Again,

707
00:37:57,280 --> 00:38:00,319
Speaker 1: it's another act of journalism, and they try try to

708
00:38:00,320 --> 00:38:04,520
Speaker 1: outsource it to journalistic outlets, nonsense fact checking outlets that

709
00:38:04,640 --> 00:38:07,920
Speaker 1: have so little credibility except for the fact that Facebook

710
00:38:07,920 --> 00:38:10,440
Speaker 1: contracts with them or whatever, and that's their kind of

711
00:38:10,440 --> 00:38:12,560
Speaker 1: fig leaf to get away with this. So they're absolutely

712
00:38:12,600 --> 00:38:15,000
Speaker 1: acting as publishers, there's no question about it. This case

713
00:38:15,080 --> 00:38:18,320
Speaker 1: is huge, especially because we also, as we mentioned these

714
00:38:18,560 --> 00:38:21,560
Speaker 1: the Gonzales family wants opportunities to seek redress. They're saying

715
00:38:21,600 --> 00:38:25,160
Speaker 1: those opportunities don't exist properly because of Section two thirty.

716
00:38:25,520 --> 00:38:27,960
Speaker 1: Tech has come to terms with the fact that maybe

717
00:38:27,960 --> 00:38:30,440
Speaker 1: they should be lobbying for Section two thirty reform because

718
00:38:30,640 --> 00:38:33,279
Speaker 1: it hurts any potential competitors to the extent that it's

719
00:38:33,320 --> 00:38:36,239
Speaker 1: even possible to compete with them way more. They can

720
00:38:36,239 --> 00:38:38,360
Speaker 1: shape what the legislation would look like, they can lobby

721
00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:40,560
Speaker 1: to make it friendly to them, and they can weather

722
00:38:40,719 --> 00:38:45,120
Speaker 1: the regulatory burden way better than any potential competitors can. So,

723
00:38:46,280 --> 00:38:48,040
Speaker 1: but you can't do that in the court. You can't

724
00:38:48,080 --> 00:38:51,080
Speaker 1: shape the regulation that might come out of the Supreme Court.

725
00:38:51,280 --> 00:38:54,360
Speaker 1: So just a fascinating, fascinating day and a really important

726
00:38:54,400 --> 00:38:56,759
Speaker 1: one for the future of the Internet, and not one

727
00:38:56,760 --> 00:38:58,440
Speaker 1: that I think many people are paying attention to, but

728
00:38:58,520 --> 00:39:05,160
Speaker 1: it is unfolding today to day here in Washington. Yeah.

729
00:39:05,239 --> 00:39:06,880
Speaker 1: At the same time, there is some other sort of

730
00:39:06,960 --> 00:39:10,200
Speaker 1: media news that I think is significant. I mean Project Veritas.

731
00:39:10,320 --> 00:39:12,920
Speaker 1: Whatever you think of them, which I have a lot

732
00:39:12,920 --> 00:39:15,880
Speaker 1: of mixed feelings about them, They've been really important in

733
00:39:15,960 --> 00:39:19,840
Speaker 1: terms of you know, political sort of right leaning or

734
00:39:19,920 --> 00:39:25,760
Speaker 1: right wing investigations. They certainly have huge cultural impact. Anytime

735
00:39:25,800 --> 00:39:29,279
Speaker 1: they drop one of their videos, it's major, major, It

736
00:39:29,280 --> 00:39:32,840
Speaker 1: gets a lot of attention on social media, whether the

737
00:39:33,080 --> 00:39:36,520
Speaker 1: mainstream news covers it or not. And James O'Keefe is

738
00:39:36,560 --> 00:39:39,799
Speaker 1: the founder of Project Veritas. He has been their figurehead.

739
00:39:39,880 --> 00:39:44,440
Speaker 1: He is really he is this entity and now he

740
00:39:44,560 --> 00:39:48,799
Speaker 1: is officially out Charlie Kirk actually had the kind of

741
00:39:48,800 --> 00:39:50,319
Speaker 1: broke this news a little bit, got a little bit

742
00:39:50,360 --> 00:39:52,520
Speaker 1: the inside scoop on the fact he was stepping down

743
00:39:52,560 --> 00:39:54,480
Speaker 1: or be even forced out as CEO. Let's take a

744
00:39:54,520 --> 00:39:56,480
Speaker 1: listen to a little bit though, of what James himself

745
00:39:56,520 --> 00:39:59,839
Speaker 1: had to say about it. A board member reached out

746
00:39:59,840 --> 00:40:04,279
Speaker 1: to one of our journalists and stated, quote, you get

747
00:40:04,320 --> 00:40:07,240
Speaker 1: a raise if there was a restructure without James O'Keeffe

748
00:40:07,239 --> 00:40:10,200
Speaker 1: at Project Barreitas. I have a copy of the text

749
00:40:10,200 --> 00:40:13,560
Speaker 1: message and I'll give it to all of you. I've

750
00:40:13,560 --> 00:40:16,760
Speaker 1: redacted the name of the journalists. The board member deleted

751
00:40:16,760 --> 00:40:20,520
Speaker 1: the message, but not before our journalist took screenshots. So

752
00:40:20,560 --> 00:40:22,880
Speaker 1: I'm announcing to you all that today on President's Day,

753
00:40:22,920 --> 00:40:26,680
Speaker 1: unpacking up my personal belongings. I don't have the answers

754
00:40:26,719 --> 00:40:30,280
Speaker 1: to why they've been doing this or why board members

755
00:40:30,320 --> 00:40:34,319
Speaker 1: were going directly to employees to collect grievances. So you

756
00:40:34,320 --> 00:40:38,520
Speaker 1: will recall we reported here and others covered as well,

757
00:40:38,719 --> 00:40:42,640
Speaker 1: that there were some rumors this may ultimately come to pass.

758
00:40:42,719 --> 00:40:44,680
Speaker 1: There were a lot of which you get from this

759
00:40:45,000 --> 00:40:47,640
Speaker 1: that little stippit, as well a lot of internal grievances.

760
00:40:48,800 --> 00:40:52,080
Speaker 1: James O'Keeffe, I think comes off as a very difficult boss.

761
00:40:52,360 --> 00:40:55,440
Speaker 1: It's probably the diplomatic way to put it, very difficult

762
00:40:55,480 --> 00:40:59,000
Speaker 1: person to work for. There were reports that like he

763
00:40:59,080 --> 00:41:01,480
Speaker 1: was hungry and about it. He stole some like eight

764
00:41:01,520 --> 00:41:04,600
Speaker 1: month pregnant lady sandwich, things of that nature. A lot

765
00:41:04,600 --> 00:41:08,279
Speaker 1: of accounts of him, you know, really seeking to humiliate

766
00:41:08,320 --> 00:41:12,160
Speaker 1: publicly humiliate his staff members in front of other staffers.

767
00:41:12,920 --> 00:41:17,040
Speaker 1: Some donors very displeased with some of his behavior and choices.

768
00:41:17,480 --> 00:41:20,000
Speaker 1: And one thing that caught our attention, and I think

769
00:41:20,040 --> 00:41:21,600
Speaker 1: a lot of people's attention is going to put this

770
00:41:21,680 --> 00:41:26,920
Speaker 1: up on the screen. Apparently they acknowledged Project Veritas acknowledged

771
00:41:26,960 --> 00:41:30,920
Speaker 1: improperly giving James O'Keefe twenty thousand dollars in excess benefits

772
00:41:30,960 --> 00:41:34,040
Speaker 1: to pay for staff members to accompany him to Virginia

773
00:41:34,200 --> 00:41:36,560
Speaker 1: as he performed a lead role in the production of

774
00:41:36,600 --> 00:41:43,320
Speaker 1: the musical Oklahoma. Surprising one there theater kid, theater kid

775
00:41:43,719 --> 00:41:47,200
Speaker 1: gone off the rails, And there were also some reports

776
00:41:47,200 --> 00:41:49,239
Speaker 1: in the Daily Beast here that you know, people were

777
00:41:49,239 --> 00:41:51,880
Speaker 1: like the donors think that this theater stuff is weird

778
00:41:51,920 --> 00:41:54,239
Speaker 1: in a distraction, et cetera. So I don't know all

779
00:41:54,239 --> 00:41:56,680
Speaker 1: the ins and outs of exactly what was going on there,

780
00:41:56,719 --> 00:41:58,640
Speaker 1: but it seems like a lot of staff member drama.

781
00:41:59,160 --> 00:42:01,120
Speaker 1: You know, I said it the top. I have mixed

782
00:42:01,120 --> 00:42:04,040
Speaker 1: feelings about Project Veritas. I mean, I mostly think that

783
00:42:04,120 --> 00:42:08,920
Speaker 1: they are they have done themselves a disservice by you know,

784
00:42:08,960 --> 00:42:12,520
Speaker 1: they've gotten caught selectively editing things, making people sound like

785
00:42:12,560 --> 00:42:15,480
Speaker 1: they're saying totally the opposite of what they're saying. And

786
00:42:15,520 --> 00:42:19,040
Speaker 1: the fact that they're a partisan outfit. That doesn't necessarily

787
00:42:19,080 --> 00:42:22,440
Speaker 1: bother me because there are plenty of investigations of Democrats

788
00:42:22,520 --> 00:42:25,640
Speaker 1: that deserve to be done or you know, left ideas

789
00:42:25,680 --> 00:42:29,200
Speaker 1: or thinkers or what out institutions whatever, Like that's all fine.

790
00:42:29,200 --> 00:42:31,399
Speaker 1: I don't have an issue with that. But they really

791
00:42:31,440 --> 00:42:34,360
Speaker 1: went above and beyond to sort of manipulate these videos

792
00:42:34,560 --> 00:42:37,719
Speaker 1: to give the most negative impression and at times completely

793
00:42:37,760 --> 00:42:41,680
Speaker 1: false and misleading impression. In instance, certain instances they've had,

794
00:42:41,880 --> 00:42:47,240
Speaker 1: you know, really impactful revelations like Amy Roebach on Jeffrey

795
00:42:47,239 --> 00:42:49,480
Speaker 1: Epstein in the fact that her news outlet like held

796
00:42:49,520 --> 00:42:51,480
Speaker 1: a story on it because they wanted to be access

797
00:42:51,560 --> 00:42:54,120
Speaker 1: and maintain access to the royal family. Like that was

798
00:42:54,239 --> 00:42:57,680
Speaker 1: very impactful. It was real journalism, but oftentimes they have

799
00:42:57,760 --> 00:43:01,080
Speaker 1: gone too far in the direction of just right manufacturing

800
00:43:01,160 --> 00:43:04,200
Speaker 1: things and propaganda, so that when they put something out

801
00:43:04,239 --> 00:43:07,839
Speaker 1: like you can't trust what they're ultimately revealing. So that's

802
00:43:07,880 --> 00:43:10,640
Speaker 1: my gripe with them. I'm sure James O'Keeffe is a

803
00:43:10,640 --> 00:43:12,759
Speaker 1: difficult person to work with, but it is kind of

804
00:43:12,760 --> 00:43:15,240
Speaker 1: an end of an era because he really is this organization.

805
00:43:15,320 --> 00:43:17,400
Speaker 1: I think without him, I can't imagine that they amount

806
00:43:17,440 --> 00:43:19,920
Speaker 1: to much. I'll imagine. I imagine that he will continue

807
00:43:19,960 --> 00:43:22,360
Speaker 1: doing exactly what he was doing at Project Veritas, just

808
00:43:22,400 --> 00:43:25,600
Speaker 1: in another new organization, right different name, because to your point,

809
00:43:25,640 --> 00:43:28,480
Speaker 1: it is him, like James o'keef is Project Veritized, and

810
00:43:28,520 --> 00:43:31,239
Speaker 1: so wherever James O'Keefe goes, it'll be Project Veritas, but

811
00:43:31,320 --> 00:43:33,040
Speaker 1: just with a different name and maybe a different board

812
00:43:33,040 --> 00:43:36,480
Speaker 1: in different resources. But I think two things can be true. First,

813
00:43:36,560 --> 00:43:40,160
Speaker 1: it can be absolutely true that he is eccentric and

814
00:43:40,360 --> 00:43:42,719
Speaker 1: very difficult to work for. And it can also be

815
00:43:42,800 --> 00:43:46,160
Speaker 1: true that his board used that as an excuse to

816
00:43:46,320 --> 00:43:49,359
Speaker 1: oust him for some reason. We don't totally have a

817
00:43:49,360 --> 00:43:52,040
Speaker 1: good idea, weut Yeah, he has invoked the fact that

818
00:43:52,080 --> 00:43:54,680
Speaker 1: this is all coming to pass right after the big

819
00:43:54,719 --> 00:43:59,319
Speaker 1: Pfizer revelation video. Do you remember the one where he was, Yeah,

820
00:43:59,840 --> 00:44:01,920
Speaker 1: he's kind of invoked. He said, this is our biggest

821
00:44:02,320 --> 00:44:05,880
Speaker 1: investigation of all time. So it's not a coincidence that

822
00:44:05,960 --> 00:44:09,799
Speaker 1: this is happening. This is all unfolding right now. I

823
00:44:09,960 --> 00:44:12,560
Speaker 1: want to bring up maybe maybe right, we don't know,

824
00:44:12,840 --> 00:44:15,200
Speaker 1: we don't know, And I want to bring up a

825
00:44:15,200 --> 00:44:17,680
Speaker 1: tweet though. I thought it was really interesting from Ben

826
00:44:17,719 --> 00:44:20,520
Speaker 1: Dominic who said James O'Keefe out at Project Veritas as

827
00:44:20,600 --> 00:44:23,040
Speaker 1: yet another example of how right media and the donor

828
00:44:23,080 --> 00:44:26,520
Speaker 1: class have a deep intolerance for creative genius. If Andrew

829
00:44:26,560 --> 00:44:28,719
Speaker 1: Breibert had lived, they'd have found a way to ditch him.

830
00:44:28,760 --> 00:44:31,520
Speaker 1: To conservative media is a wash with medium talent who

831
00:44:31,600 --> 00:44:34,560
Speaker 1: pay their bills, unforgettable churn that changes nothing and has

832
00:44:34,560 --> 00:44:37,279
Speaker 1: a half life measured in hours. Creatives rise up, make

833
00:44:37,320 --> 00:44:38,840
Speaker 1: a lot of noise, give a lot of enemies, thin

834
00:44:38,880 --> 00:44:41,600
Speaker 1: get taken out it by their own Then donors turned

835
00:44:41,680 --> 00:44:44,520
Speaker 1: to the mids. I think it's an interesting point because,

836
00:44:44,600 --> 00:44:48,080
Speaker 1: especially coming from somebody in sort of conservative media, there

837
00:44:48,280 --> 00:44:51,239
Speaker 1: is you know, the donor class is different. It's not

838
00:44:51,400 --> 00:44:53,800
Speaker 1: you don't have any like Hollywood people in the conservative

839
00:44:53,840 --> 00:44:57,040
Speaker 1: donor class. You don't have many art artistic people in

840
00:44:57,080 --> 00:45:00,399
Speaker 1: the conservative donor class. And I don't think I would

841
00:45:00,400 --> 00:45:01,920
Speaker 1: go so far as to say James o'keef is a

842
00:45:01,960 --> 00:45:04,800
Speaker 1: creative genius. And I do think there is a different

843
00:45:04,880 --> 00:45:09,319
Speaker 1: level of tolerance for that level of activism. And I

844
00:45:09,440 --> 00:45:11,560
Speaker 1: you know, I think journalism can be activism, but I

845
00:45:11,560 --> 00:45:13,400
Speaker 1: think he leaned way more heavily on the side of

846
00:45:13,440 --> 00:45:17,440
Speaker 1: activism than journalism. Yeah, I mean, I think I buy

847
00:45:17,520 --> 00:45:23,120
Speaker 1: that he's creative, you know, but does in Oklahoma? I guess,

848
00:45:23,360 --> 00:45:25,719
Speaker 1: Like I said, just to reiterate, I don't think that

849
00:45:25,800 --> 00:45:29,680
Speaker 1: he did himself any favors by leaning so heavily in

850
00:45:29,719 --> 00:45:34,600
Speaker 1: the direction of manipulation and propaganda, because he could have

851
00:45:34,719 --> 00:45:37,840
Speaker 1: had a lot more impact with what he put out

852
00:45:38,320 --> 00:45:42,040
Speaker 1: if they played it a little more straight and didn't

853
00:45:42,160 --> 00:45:46,319
Speaker 1: edit the videos deceptively and ultimately get caught in things

854
00:45:46,320 --> 00:45:48,439
Speaker 1: of that nature, so that when you do put out

855
00:45:48,480 --> 00:45:51,720
Speaker 1: something that is legit and real and deserves news coverage,

856
00:45:52,000 --> 00:45:55,279
Speaker 1: it becomes very easy for everyone to dismiss it as

857
00:45:55,440 --> 00:45:58,520
Speaker 1: just more James o'keef project veritas propaganda. And I feel

858
00:45:58,520 --> 00:46:00,359
Speaker 1: the same way. I mean, on the Fizer. You guys

859
00:46:00,440 --> 00:46:03,160
Speaker 1: very reluctant to cover that because I don't know. I

860
00:46:03,160 --> 00:46:05,040
Speaker 1: don't know who this dude is that they interviewed. I

861
00:46:05,080 --> 00:46:06,799
Speaker 1: don't know how they edit it. I don't know what

862
00:46:06,840 --> 00:46:10,279
Speaker 1: that like given his track record. Yeah, it makes me

863
00:46:10,680 --> 00:46:14,560
Speaker 1: very very wary of trusting what they're ultimately putting out

864
00:46:14,560 --> 00:46:17,279
Speaker 1: to the public. And you know, I'm someone who is

865
00:46:17,440 --> 00:46:23,400
Speaker 1: very open to, you know, uncomfortable conversations exposing companies like Pfizer,

866
00:46:23,520 --> 00:46:25,360
Speaker 1: Like I have no issue with any of that. We

867
00:46:25,440 --> 00:46:28,319
Speaker 1: try to do that here all the time. But when

868
00:46:28,320 --> 00:46:32,320
Speaker 1: you've made proven yourself to be so untrustworthy so many times,

869
00:46:32,680 --> 00:46:37,319
Speaker 1: it gives your ideological adversaries very easy grounds to just

870
00:46:37,480 --> 00:46:40,120
Speaker 1: dismiss out of hand everything you ultimately put out. And

871
00:46:40,160 --> 00:46:42,520
Speaker 1: the Fizer investigation is also a really good example of that.

872
00:46:42,560 --> 00:46:44,960
Speaker 1: In the same way o'keef season is an example of

873
00:46:45,000 --> 00:46:47,600
Speaker 1: sort of the pinnacle of Project Veritasa's work. It's also

874
00:46:47,600 --> 00:46:49,480
Speaker 1: a great example of how easy it was for the

875
00:46:49,480 --> 00:46:53,040
Speaker 1: media completely to dismiss it and not cover it, and

876
00:46:53,120 --> 00:46:55,080
Speaker 1: if they did cover it, only cover it to the

877
00:46:55,120 --> 00:46:58,960
Speaker 1: extent that they're almost like mocking O'Keefe and criticizing O'Keefe,

878
00:46:58,960 --> 00:47:01,359
Speaker 1: and there is a different world in which that investigation

879
00:47:01,640 --> 00:47:05,319
Speaker 1: happens and has more credibility because James O'Keefe, you know,

880
00:47:05,320 --> 00:47:07,560
Speaker 1: in the thirteen years since he founded Project Veritas, all

881
00:47:07,600 --> 00:47:10,839
Speaker 1: the way back in the Obama years twenty ten, you know,

882
00:47:11,040 --> 00:47:14,279
Speaker 1: was putting They do sometimes dump the raw footage out,

883
00:47:14,719 --> 00:47:17,000
Speaker 1: but not all the time, and we have seen that

884
00:47:17,040 --> 00:47:18,800
Speaker 1: go wrong in the past. And so there is a

885
00:47:18,840 --> 00:47:22,399
Speaker 1: world in which they're doing these investigations just dumping raw

886
00:47:22,480 --> 00:47:24,800
Speaker 1: video out and everyone can sort of judge for themselves,

887
00:47:25,760 --> 00:47:28,799
Speaker 1: and they get Pfizer in an impossible situation where they

888
00:47:28,840 --> 00:47:32,120
Speaker 1: can't wriggle out of the media coverage because other people

889
00:47:32,160 --> 00:47:33,600
Speaker 1: take it and run with it. But that's not the

890
00:47:33,640 --> 00:47:36,239
Speaker 1: world that we live in. Ye, it's not the world

891
00:47:36,280 --> 00:47:40,400
Speaker 1: James o'keeff created. Yeah, absolutely, I have some more news

892
00:47:40,440 --> 00:47:43,040
Speaker 1: from that side of the aisle. You want to set

893
00:47:43,040 --> 00:47:48,160
Speaker 1: this one up, Emily, Yeah, absolutely, Well. Representative Marjorie Taylor

894
00:47:48,239 --> 00:47:53,400
Speaker 1: Green has called for a national divorce using that exact language.

895
00:47:53,520 --> 00:47:55,759
Speaker 1: She was sort of mocked for this tweet yesterday. This

896
00:47:55,800 --> 00:47:58,520
Speaker 1: is the quote, we need a national divorce. We need

897
00:47:58,560 --> 00:48:01,320
Speaker 1: to separate by red state and blue states and shrink

898
00:48:01,320 --> 00:48:04,000
Speaker 1: of the federal government. Everyone I talk to says this

899
00:48:04,080 --> 00:48:07,920
Speaker 1: from the sick. It's like Trump Bratten. Many people are

900
00:48:07,960 --> 00:48:11,240
Speaker 1: saying in this sick and discussing woke culture issues, shoved

901
00:48:11,280 --> 00:48:15,319
Speaker 1: down our throats to the Democrats, traitorous America, last policies,

902
00:48:15,880 --> 00:48:20,359
Speaker 1: we are done. We are done, all right. So obviously

903
00:48:21,239 --> 00:48:24,960
Speaker 1: somebody with now as much clout in the Republican Party

904
00:48:24,960 --> 00:48:29,279
Speaker 1: as Marjorie Taylor Green actually does have. You know, she

905
00:48:30,239 --> 00:48:32,640
Speaker 1: is in a position right now. I wouldn't have predicted

906
00:48:32,640 --> 00:48:34,400
Speaker 1: this maybe a couple of years ago, but she is

907
00:48:34,400 --> 00:48:36,799
Speaker 1: in a position right now where she does genuinely have

908
00:48:36,880 --> 00:48:39,319
Speaker 1: some clout in the Republican Party. And here she is

909
00:48:39,440 --> 00:48:42,880
Speaker 1: calling outright for a national divorce. That's why we're covering

910
00:48:42,920 --> 00:48:45,799
Speaker 1: it here because it is worth talking about. There have

911
00:48:46,040 --> 00:48:49,600
Speaker 1: been on the right, especially, some rumblings of this. There

912
00:48:49,640 --> 00:48:51,799
Speaker 1: always are, by the way, you probably remember this, like

913
00:48:51,840 --> 00:48:56,719
Speaker 1: going back years, there's always that conversation. There's an interesting

914
00:48:57,440 --> 00:48:59,719
Speaker 1: there's an interesting point to be made about the fact

915
00:48:59,719 --> 00:49:01,680
Speaker 1: that we have sort of come apart, to borrow the

916
00:49:01,760 --> 00:49:05,279
Speaker 1: language from the book, coming apart in socioeconomic ways, and

917
00:49:05,360 --> 00:49:07,319
Speaker 1: that people who are at very different ends of the

918
00:49:07,360 --> 00:49:11,239
Speaker 1: socioeconomic spectrum are basically living in different worlds within our

919
00:49:11,280 --> 00:49:15,399
Speaker 1: own country at this point. But that said, Marjor Tailler

920
00:49:15,440 --> 00:49:18,319
Speaker 1: Green's argument falls apart because of her own state. What

921
00:49:18,360 --> 00:49:22,239
Speaker 1: do you do with Georgia, right, Seriously, you live in

922
00:49:22,239 --> 00:49:26,360
Speaker 1: a blue state exactly exactly, And are your neighbors who

923
00:49:26,760 --> 00:49:29,719
Speaker 1: you might get along with fine and who voted for

924
00:49:29,920 --> 00:49:33,920
Speaker 1: Warnock or who voted for us off? What do you

925
00:49:33,920 --> 00:49:35,319
Speaker 1: think of them? Do you think they should live in

926
00:49:35,320 --> 00:49:37,600
Speaker 1: a different country? Do you think that they do live

927
00:49:37,640 --> 00:49:39,920
Speaker 1: in a different country? And it's just it hasn't been

928
00:49:40,040 --> 00:49:44,080
Speaker 1: formally determined at this point, and so I think it's

929
00:49:44,080 --> 00:49:48,759
Speaker 1: an opportunity, I think to really consider the impracticality, not

930
00:49:48,920 --> 00:49:52,600
Speaker 1: just I don't mean that like logistically, just like actually philosophically,

931
00:49:52,920 --> 00:49:55,760
Speaker 1: it makes no sense. It's an incoherent kind of idea.

932
00:49:55,920 --> 00:49:57,480
Speaker 1: I mean, there's a few things to say about this.

933
00:49:57,719 --> 00:50:01,560
Speaker 1: To me, it feels like a sort of of throwing

934
00:50:01,640 --> 00:50:04,680
Speaker 1: up of your hands, an abandonment of any idea of

935
00:50:05,440 --> 00:50:10,839
Speaker 1: a democratic, small d democratic nation where Okay, you disagree

936
00:50:10,880 --> 00:50:13,279
Speaker 1: with whatever the Biden administration's doing, there's going to be

937
00:50:13,320 --> 00:50:16,360
Speaker 1: another election, Like that's the whole idea is Okay, we

938
00:50:16,440 --> 00:50:18,480
Speaker 1: have this push and pull, and yeah, the country has

939
00:50:18,719 --> 00:50:22,040
Speaker 1: different ideas about exactly how we should accomplish it. That's

940
00:50:22,120 --> 00:50:26,000
Speaker 1: why we have a democracy where you appoint representatives and

941
00:50:26,160 --> 00:50:28,480
Speaker 1: where you elect representatives, and where you run on a

942
00:50:28,520 --> 00:50:30,800
Speaker 1: platform and you make your case for your ideas. That

943
00:50:30,920 --> 00:50:34,360
Speaker 1: made the best ideas win. That's the whole idea of

944
00:50:34,400 --> 00:50:38,440
Speaker 1: what we're doing here. That's number one. Number two is

945
00:50:38,800 --> 00:50:41,640
Speaker 1: I mean, part of why I wanted to cover this,

946
00:50:41,960 --> 00:50:44,680
Speaker 1: because we don't cover the utterances of Marjorie Taylor Green

947
00:50:44,760 --> 00:50:47,839
Speaker 1: all that often on this show, is because it's really

948
00:50:47,840 --> 00:50:51,600
Speaker 1: the polar opposite of the view of the country that

949
00:50:51,800 --> 00:50:55,800
Speaker 1: we believe in and are trying to promote with this show.

950
00:50:56,360 --> 00:50:58,239
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, I'm sitting here with you. We

951
00:50:58,280 --> 00:51:00,960
Speaker 1: have some different ideas about things sober and have some

952
00:51:01,000 --> 00:51:04,120
Speaker 1: different ideas about things and in no world am I

953
00:51:04,280 --> 00:51:07,440
Speaker 1: like this is your reconcile. We must get a national divorce.

954
00:51:08,000 --> 00:51:11,360
Speaker 1: And I think that the reason the show, I think

955
00:51:11,600 --> 00:51:15,839
Speaker 1: has been successful is because that is much more reflective

956
00:51:16,400 --> 00:51:20,279
Speaker 1: of how people actually live in their normal lives than

957
00:51:20,360 --> 00:51:26,560
Speaker 1: this like bizarrely fringe ultra online take of Marjorie Taylor Green.

958
00:51:26,719 --> 00:51:29,319
Speaker 1: It is ultra online. It's only if you're like the

959
00:51:29,400 --> 00:51:31,279
Speaker 1: old Okay, she says, Like everybody I talk to you

960
00:51:31,280 --> 00:51:33,400
Speaker 1: says this, Are you only talking to the worst people

961
00:51:33,440 --> 00:51:36,759
Speaker 1: on Twitter? Because that's what the view of the world

962
00:51:36,840 --> 00:51:39,439
Speaker 1: you would get is if you spend way too much

963
00:51:39,480 --> 00:51:42,440
Speaker 1: time down a rabbit hole on like Twitter or Getter

964
00:51:42,560 --> 00:51:45,560
Speaker 1: or true Social or par or whatever your social media

965
00:51:45,680 --> 00:51:48,920
Speaker 1: of choice happens to be. But if you're actually like

966
00:51:49,080 --> 00:51:53,080
Speaker 1: existing in the world and living with your neighbors, many

967
00:51:53,080 --> 00:51:55,520
Speaker 1: of whom may have different ideologies and vote for different

968
00:51:55,560 --> 00:51:57,920
Speaker 1: politicians than you, like, this is not the experience of

969
00:51:57,920 --> 00:51:59,400
Speaker 1: the country that most people have on a day to

970
00:51:59,440 --> 00:52:02,560
Speaker 1: day basis. I live in Accounting that is quite conservative

971
00:52:02,560 --> 00:52:04,520
Speaker 1: and has been for a long time. Voted for Donald Trump.

972
00:52:04,560 --> 00:52:06,040
Speaker 1: I mean, this is where I was born and raised.

973
00:52:06,400 --> 00:52:09,600
Speaker 1: And again, at no moment have I been like, this

974
00:52:09,760 --> 00:52:13,719
Speaker 1: is irreconcilable. We need to give up on democracy and

975
00:52:14,040 --> 00:52:17,200
Speaker 1: just split at you know, split at the seams. It's

976
00:52:17,760 --> 00:52:20,200
Speaker 1: so it's a very I think it's a very sad

977
00:52:20,280 --> 00:52:24,080
Speaker 1: and very pessimistic view of the country. Ultimately, yeah, and

978
00:52:24,120 --> 00:52:28,000
Speaker 1: again it is true that we are having a hard

979
00:52:28,040 --> 00:52:32,120
Speaker 1: time agreeing on like, very very very fundamental questions about,

980
00:52:32,440 --> 00:52:38,640
Speaker 1: for instance, what is gender, what is truth, what is disinformation?

981
00:52:39,239 --> 00:52:42,399
Speaker 1: What is democracy? We actually are having a hard time

982
00:52:42,440 --> 00:52:45,720
Speaker 1: coming to terms with those questions. That is not unprecedented

983
00:52:45,800 --> 00:52:48,600
Speaker 1: in American history. We have had a very hard time

984
00:52:48,920 --> 00:52:52,600
Speaker 1: determining the value of human beings. There are people who

985
00:52:52,640 --> 00:52:57,400
Speaker 1: disagreed on that perhaps the most fundamental question in human

986
00:52:57,520 --> 00:53:00,799
Speaker 1: existence in this country. And that's not to say that

987
00:53:00,840 --> 00:53:04,240
Speaker 1: we've handled it perfectly. It's not to say that everything

988
00:53:04,320 --> 00:53:06,799
Speaker 1: is just peachy and that the United States is the

989
00:53:06,880 --> 00:53:09,640
Speaker 1: perfect example of how to sort of work through these questions.

990
00:53:09,960 --> 00:53:12,600
Speaker 1: But it is to say, the whole point of what

991
00:53:12,640 --> 00:53:15,520
Speaker 1: we do, as opposed to what other countries have done

992
00:53:15,520 --> 00:53:19,080
Speaker 1: in human history, is work through these things and use

993
00:53:19,400 --> 00:53:26,200
Speaker 1: this tool of constitutional democracy to create a more peaceful

994
00:53:26,200 --> 00:53:29,200
Speaker 1: existence to the best of our ability. Best of our

995
00:53:29,239 --> 00:53:31,359
Speaker 1: ability is not always going to be perfect, and it

996
00:53:31,440 --> 00:53:34,720
Speaker 1: is going to be sadly tragic, violent, all of those things.

997
00:53:34,880 --> 00:53:38,080
Speaker 1: Human existence is tragic and violent in all of those things.

998
00:53:38,080 --> 00:53:40,319
Speaker 1: But we're working towards a better form of it. And

999
00:53:40,400 --> 00:53:43,840
Speaker 1: to give up on that, yeah, that's really sad. Yeah,

1000
00:53:43,920 --> 00:53:45,400
Speaker 1: I mean, there were a lot of people out there

1001
00:53:45,400 --> 00:53:47,759
Speaker 1: who like this is treasons whatever. She can say what

1002
00:53:47,800 --> 00:53:50,359
Speaker 1: she wants to say, but I do think it's kind

1003
00:53:50,400 --> 00:53:53,759
Speaker 1: of a I would say that the sentiment at the

1004
00:53:53,800 --> 00:53:56,440
Speaker 1: core of it is kind of anti American because of

1005
00:53:56,480 --> 00:53:59,560
Speaker 1: exactly the reasons that you're laying out. It goes against

1006
00:54:00,080 --> 00:54:03,440
Speaker 1: the core of the best notions of what America is

1007
00:54:03,600 --> 00:54:06,319
Speaker 1: supposed to be. Not that we've lived up to it,

1008
00:54:06,440 --> 00:54:08,960
Speaker 1: not that we live up to it today. But again,

1009
00:54:09,000 --> 00:54:11,560
Speaker 1: I just I find the comments profoundly sad that you

1010
00:54:11,600 --> 00:54:14,040
Speaker 1: would just sort of like give up on the country

1011
00:54:14,080 --> 00:54:16,319
Speaker 1: in this way. And I wasn't the only one. There

1012
00:54:16,360 --> 00:54:19,440
Speaker 1: were lots of Republicans who were not impressed with what

1013
00:54:19,480 --> 00:54:22,520
Speaker 1: she had to say. Here, this Spencer Cox, who is

1014
00:54:22,640 --> 00:54:26,160
Speaker 1: the governor of Utah, Republican in case you are surprised

1015
00:54:26,160 --> 00:54:28,799
Speaker 1: by that in Utah, obviously it's a Republican And what

1016
00:54:28,840 --> 00:54:31,080
Speaker 1: he said in response to this is this rhetoric. We

1017
00:54:31,120 --> 00:54:32,600
Speaker 1: can put this up on the screen. Media. I had

1018
00:54:32,600 --> 00:54:34,080
Speaker 1: had a kind of round up of some of the

1019
00:54:34,440 --> 00:54:37,680
Speaker 1: criticism here. They say she was roundly condemned after calling

1020
00:54:37,680 --> 00:54:40,680
Speaker 1: for a national divorce on Twitter. Spencer Cox, the governor

1021
00:54:40,719 --> 00:54:43,040
Speaker 1: of Utah, said this rhetoric is destructive and wrong and

1022
00:54:43,120 --> 00:54:46,000
Speaker 1: honestly evil. We don't need a divert force. We need

1023
00:54:46,040 --> 00:54:48,960
Speaker 1: marriage counseling, and we need elected leaders that don't profit

1024
00:54:49,000 --> 00:54:51,960
Speaker 1: by tearing us apart. We can disagree without hate. Healthy

1025
00:54:51,960 --> 00:54:55,360
Speaker 1: conflict was critical to our nations founding and survival. He

1026
00:54:55,440 --> 00:54:57,799
Speaker 1: has a little Reagan quote there, But then I liked

1027
00:54:57,800 --> 00:55:01,879
Speaker 1: what he said here. He said that he doesn't mean

1028
00:55:02,000 --> 00:55:04,799
Speaker 1: just civility and kindness, although we definitely need more of

1029
00:55:04,840 --> 00:55:08,240
Speaker 1: that too. I mean passionate disagreement that does not destroy

1030
00:55:08,320 --> 00:55:11,560
Speaker 1: our souls and our country. Healthy conflict is good and foundational,

1031
00:55:11,560 --> 00:55:15,480
Speaker 1: but we must be Americans first, in partisans second or last.

1032
00:55:15,600 --> 00:55:18,000
Speaker 1: And I like the way he phrased that because sometimes

1033
00:55:18,000 --> 00:55:21,520
Speaker 1: these things get just like bound up in decorum and

1034
00:55:21,560 --> 00:55:24,319
Speaker 1: civility politics, which I think is silly. There should be

1035
00:55:24,400 --> 00:55:28,080
Speaker 1: fierce debates, it should be raw, it should be passionate.

1036
00:55:28,400 --> 00:55:31,960
Speaker 1: There is nothing wrong with that whatsoever. But you know

1037
00:55:32,120 --> 00:55:34,160
Speaker 1: the idea that, oh, we're just going to give up

1038
00:55:34,160 --> 00:55:37,080
Speaker 1: on the other half of the country that disagrees with me, frankly,

1039
00:55:37,080 --> 00:55:39,160
Speaker 1: I think it's disgusting. No, And that's such an important

1040
00:55:39,160 --> 00:55:44,600
Speaker 1: distinction because the nonsense respectability theater that our politicians want

1041
00:55:44,640 --> 00:55:47,160
Speaker 1: to drag us into which is like, you can't how

1042
00:55:47,239 --> 00:55:50,920
Speaker 1: dare you say anything that so critical of the American

1043
00:55:50,960 --> 00:55:53,319
Speaker 1: media or the American government, or you can't criticize our

1044
00:55:53,360 --> 00:55:56,960
Speaker 1: institutions because you're going to sow institutional distrust. Well, first

1045
00:55:56,960 --> 00:56:00,360
Speaker 1: of all, our institutions deserve to be distrusted, and so

1046
00:56:00,520 --> 00:56:02,759
Speaker 1: that's I think a distraction. But we should be able

1047
00:56:02,800 --> 00:56:06,839
Speaker 1: to For instance, I have this longstanding disagreement with most

1048
00:56:06,840 --> 00:56:09,120
Speaker 1: people when they look at the John Stewart clip of

1049
00:56:09,600 --> 00:56:13,200
Speaker 1: him laying into Tucker Carlson and Paul Bagala on Crossfire. Yeah,

1050
00:56:13,280 --> 00:56:14,719
Speaker 1: I forget what year, it was, like two thousand and

1051
00:56:14,760 --> 00:56:17,000
Speaker 1: four or somewhere around there, somewhere in there. I don't

1052
00:56:17,040 --> 00:56:19,400
Speaker 1: think that was a great moment because I think what

1053
00:56:19,480 --> 00:56:22,960
Speaker 1: we lose when we take away that sort of public

1054
00:56:23,040 --> 00:56:27,360
Speaker 1: example of debate, heated debate, intense debate, but where you

1055
00:56:27,480 --> 00:56:31,200
Speaker 1: have two representatives and it's important that they do actually

1056
00:56:31,200 --> 00:56:33,360
Speaker 1: represent both sides of the argument and they do it well.

1057
00:56:33,960 --> 00:56:37,360
Speaker 1: Butting heads in public on television. I think that's a

1058
00:56:37,400 --> 00:56:41,040
Speaker 1: cathartic and important thing for Americans to be able to

1059
00:56:41,120 --> 00:56:43,239
Speaker 1: do and for Americans to be able to see. It's

1060
00:56:43,320 --> 00:56:46,440
Speaker 1: part of why this show works so well, and that

1061
00:56:46,480 --> 00:56:48,840
Speaker 1: even Sager have always worked so well. It's because people

1062
00:56:48,840 --> 00:56:50,600
Speaker 1: do need to be able to see that, because we

1063
00:56:50,640 --> 00:56:52,799
Speaker 1: can all do that with each other. And when you

1064
00:56:52,880 --> 00:56:55,959
Speaker 1: lose that, and when the corporate press, as they do now,

1065
00:56:56,080 --> 00:56:58,680
Speaker 1: tries to push us away from that and tries to say, no,

1066
00:56:58,800 --> 00:57:02,360
Speaker 1: purveyors of disinformation or hate or whatever deserve to breathe

1067
00:57:02,400 --> 00:57:05,720
Speaker 1: the same oxygen in our green rooms, yeah, or get

1068
00:57:05,760 --> 00:57:10,560
Speaker 1: any room in our pages, then you're getting This is

1069
00:57:10,560 --> 00:57:13,719
Speaker 1: how you set the stage for the national divorce conversation,

1070
00:57:13,840 --> 00:57:16,880
Speaker 1: because people no longer think they can talk through these

1071
00:57:16,920 --> 00:57:19,160
Speaker 1: things because they don't see it happening. Yeah, And it's

1072
00:57:19,200 --> 00:57:22,560
Speaker 1: about I can't control these other people, so I just

1073
00:57:22,640 --> 00:57:26,680
Speaker 1: have to. Like it's an almost totalitarian instinct. Honestly. On

1074
00:57:26,720 --> 00:57:29,840
Speaker 1: the John Stewart point, I think what people are reacting

1075
00:57:29,880 --> 00:57:33,120
Speaker 1: to is how inauthentic that particular debate, How is just

1076
00:57:33,160 --> 00:57:37,320
Speaker 1: theater cartoonish, cartoonish exactly, But the core point of having

1077
00:57:37,360 --> 00:57:40,920
Speaker 1: people disagree and like genuinely going at it and battling

1078
00:57:40,920 --> 00:57:42,720
Speaker 1: it out, I think that's the core of what we

1079
00:57:42,760 --> 00:57:47,520
Speaker 1: should all be about, all right. On that note, Yeah,

1080
00:57:47,560 --> 00:57:49,680
Speaker 1: on that note, we want to talk about a story

1081
00:57:49,720 --> 00:57:53,280
Speaker 1: that's sort of in a slow motion train wreck. Over

1082
00:57:53,280 --> 00:57:56,960
Speaker 1: the course of the last week, huge revelations from Dominion's

1083
00:57:57,200 --> 00:58:02,400
Speaker 1: defamation lawsuit against Fox News. We have learned, because of

1084
00:58:02,440 --> 00:58:05,440
Speaker 1: some of the disclosures in this lawsuit, that Tucker Carls

1085
00:58:05,440 --> 00:58:08,200
Speaker 1: and Sean Hannity and Laura Ingram were on a group text.

1086
00:58:08,760 --> 00:58:12,200
Speaker 1: First of all, Big News, Yeah, that's true us. You

1087
00:58:12,280 --> 00:58:14,240
Speaker 1: never know how these people feel about each other behind

1088
00:58:14,240 --> 00:58:16,000
Speaker 1: the scenes, and might hate each other's guts. That's kind

1089
00:58:16,000 --> 00:58:19,560
Speaker 1: of common. Actually. Well, in fact, we find out through

1090
00:58:19,760 --> 00:58:22,880
Speaker 1: the revelations in this lawsuit that they were talking about

1091
00:58:22,880 --> 00:58:26,280
Speaker 1: their colleagues. They were talking about not just Sidney Powell,

1092
00:58:26,320 --> 00:58:30,800
Speaker 1: not just Rudy Giuliani, but also other hosts, including Neil Cavudo.

1093
00:58:31,080 --> 00:58:34,280
Speaker 1: They were talking about Jackie Heinrich, who had taken the step.

1094
00:58:34,320 --> 00:58:37,520
Speaker 1: This is probably the revelation from the filings that has

1095
00:58:37,560 --> 00:58:41,360
Speaker 1: gotten the most I would say airtime is that they

1096
00:58:41,560 --> 00:58:46,080
Speaker 1: were concerned when Jackie Heinrich sort of went into a

1097
00:58:46,240 --> 00:58:50,800
Speaker 1: correct fact check of something Donald Trump said about voting

1098
00:58:50,840 --> 00:58:55,800
Speaker 1: machines or something like that fact checked him. They were

1099
00:58:55,880 --> 00:58:59,640
Speaker 1: upset because they were saying privately, our viewers are so

1100
00:58:59,760 --> 00:59:04,160
Speaker 1: few they're going to flee to an alternative source like Newsmax.

1101
00:59:04,240 --> 00:59:06,440
Speaker 1: This is in the wake of that Chris stiwald decision

1102
00:59:06,480 --> 00:59:12,360
Speaker 1: to call Arizona really early. That just infuriated many many

1103
00:59:12,440 --> 00:59:16,080
Speaker 1: Trump supporters, many many Fox News viewers and did send

1104
00:59:16,120 --> 00:59:18,400
Speaker 1: them actually away from Fox News at least for a

1105
00:59:18,440 --> 00:59:22,360
Speaker 1: period of time to places like Newsmax. And they were

1106
00:59:22,400 --> 00:59:24,560
Speaker 1: talking behind the scenes and saying basically like this is

1107
00:59:24,880 --> 00:59:29,640
Speaker 1: killing the network stock, this is a problem. They were

1108
00:59:29,680 --> 00:59:33,120
Speaker 1: also saying some things about Rudy Giuliani and Sidney Powell.

1109
00:59:33,120 --> 00:59:35,720
Speaker 1: As I've mentioned, this is Laura Ingram quote, Sidney is

1110
00:59:35,760 --> 00:59:38,000
Speaker 1: a complete not No one will work with her. Dido

1111
00:59:38,200 --> 00:59:42,120
Speaker 1: with Rudy. This is from Tucker. Sidney Powell is lying

1112
00:59:42,160 --> 00:59:45,360
Speaker 1: by by way, I caught her. It's insane. I think

1113
00:59:45,360 --> 00:59:47,640
Speaker 1: it's really important to note that Tucker actually did have

1114
00:59:47,680 --> 00:59:50,360
Speaker 1: Sidney Powell on and gave her a like he gave

1115
00:59:50,360 --> 00:59:53,520
Speaker 1: her a tough interview at the time, and was actually

1116
00:59:53,520 --> 00:59:57,960
Speaker 1: pretty publicly skeptical of Sidney Powell. Tucker also texts our

1117
00:59:58,040 --> 01:00:00,840
Speaker 1: viewers are good people and they believe it, which is

1118
01:00:00,880 --> 01:00:04,680
Speaker 1: really interesting. Talking about the lies surrounding the twenty twenty election,

1119
01:00:05,640 --> 01:00:09,360
Speaker 1: So Crystal, there's just it's an overwhelming, I think amount

1120
01:00:09,360 --> 01:00:13,760
Speaker 1: of information, like an info dump that just boggles the mind.

1121
01:00:14,320 --> 01:00:15,880
Speaker 1: But what do you make of it? Well, and this

1122
01:00:16,080 --> 01:00:19,880
Speaker 1: comes in the context of a dominion lawsuit, which you know,

1123
01:00:19,960 --> 01:00:22,280
Speaker 1: this is part of the discovery process where they're trying

1124
01:00:22,320 --> 01:00:25,040
Speaker 1: to show like these people knew that this stuff was

1125
01:00:25,120 --> 01:00:28,320
Speaker 1: all garbage and they still promoted it because they have

1126
01:00:28,360 --> 01:00:30,720
Speaker 1: a very high bar to meet in terms of defamation.

1127
01:00:31,200 --> 01:00:33,160
Speaker 1: I have no ideam not a legal analyst, but you know,

1128
01:00:33,240 --> 01:00:36,840
Speaker 1: oftentimes it's very difficult to meet that bar. But I

1129
01:00:36,880 --> 01:00:40,000
Speaker 1: think the picture that emerges is of a group of

1130
01:00:40,000 --> 01:00:44,440
Speaker 1: people who unsurprisingly are most concerned about their ratings, the

1131
01:00:44,480 --> 01:00:47,760
Speaker 1: stock price, and the business bottom line. Like that's clearly

1132
01:00:47,800 --> 01:00:51,360
Speaker 1: their priority above and beyond you know, Karen, concern for

1133
01:00:51,480 --> 01:00:54,480
Speaker 1: their audience, Karen, concern for the truth or their own

1134
01:00:54,520 --> 01:00:57,280
Speaker 1: integrity or anything else you might come up with. The

1135
01:00:57,280 --> 01:01:00,680
Speaker 1: bottom line was the bottom line, which you know, that's

1136
01:01:00,720 --> 01:01:03,240
Speaker 1: not surprising. That's the way that CNN operates, That's the

1137
01:01:03,240 --> 01:01:06,960
Speaker 1: way i'm that's that is definitionally what corporate media is

1138
01:01:07,120 --> 01:01:10,200
Speaker 1: all about, right, And so I think that's one takeaway,

1139
01:01:10,240 --> 01:01:12,600
Speaker 1: and just to underscore that with regards to trying to

1140
01:01:12,600 --> 01:01:14,840
Speaker 1: get this woman fired. I don't know how do you

1141
01:01:14,840 --> 01:01:17,400
Speaker 1: know her, Jackie, not personally. She's a white House. Okay,

1142
01:01:17,840 --> 01:01:20,160
Speaker 1: so I don't know anything about her. But anyway, Carlson

1143
01:01:20,200 --> 01:01:24,160
Speaker 1: told Hannity about Jackie Heinrich, please get her fired. Seriously,

1144
01:01:24,240 --> 01:01:27,600
Speaker 1: what the F I'm actually shocked this is with regards

1145
01:01:27,600 --> 01:01:29,920
Speaker 1: to some tweet she sent out fact checking Trump. It

1146
01:01:30,000 --> 01:01:34,120
Speaker 1: needs to stop immediately, Like tonight, it's measurably hurting the company.

1147
01:01:34,160 --> 01:01:37,600
Speaker 1: The stock price is down. Not a joke. Tucker added,

1148
01:01:38,240 --> 01:01:41,439
Speaker 1: I just went crazy on need over it. Hannity said,

1149
01:01:41,480 --> 01:01:43,600
Speaker 1: he I don't know who it is. He had quote

1150
01:01:43,640 --> 01:01:46,840
Speaker 1: already sent to Suzanne with a really Suzanne's got being

1151
01:01:46,880 --> 01:01:49,720
Speaker 1: the person who runs Fox News. He then added, I'm

1152
01:01:49,760 --> 01:01:53,120
Speaker 1: three strikes, wall is shit. Debate, Election night a disaster

1153
01:01:53,440 --> 01:01:57,480
Speaker 1: now this BS Nope, not gonna fly. Did I mention? Kavudo?

1154
01:01:57,920 --> 01:01:59,760
Speaker 1: And they were all very concerned about, you know what

1155
01:01:59,840 --> 01:02:04,439
Speaker 1: the time like Newsmax and let's thea oan. They were

1156
01:02:04,480 --> 01:02:07,680
Speaker 1: like willing to go harder into the election conspiracies, and

1157
01:02:07,720 --> 01:02:10,160
Speaker 1: there was a sense of betrayal among some of the

1158
01:02:10,160 --> 01:02:12,880
Speaker 1: Fox News watching audience that they had called Arizona early

1159
01:02:13,000 --> 01:02:15,200
Speaker 1: and that they had called the election for Joe Biden

1160
01:02:15,240 --> 01:02:18,120
Speaker 1: instead of engaging with all of this stuff. And there

1161
01:02:18,240 --> 01:02:21,760
Speaker 1: was also a pivot point that came out with regards

1162
01:02:21,760 --> 01:02:26,440
Speaker 1: to Suzanne Scott, where Rupert Murdoch had initially been trying

1163
01:02:26,480 --> 01:02:30,040
Speaker 1: to tamp down some of the conspiracy indulgence that was

1164
01:02:30,040 --> 01:02:32,400
Speaker 1: happening on the network. He put out in one of

1165
01:02:32,440 --> 01:02:35,280
Speaker 1: his papers like an editorial and made sure that it

1166
01:02:35,320 --> 01:02:38,320
Speaker 1: got widely distributed at the network. That was the day

1167
01:02:38,360 --> 01:02:40,800
Speaker 1: that it gets called for that the network calls the

1168
01:02:40,840 --> 01:02:45,040
Speaker 1: election officially for Biden. Ratings fall off a cliff, and

1169
01:02:45,080 --> 01:02:48,160
Speaker 1: there's messages from Suzanne Scott to that effect of like, well,

1170
01:02:48,160 --> 01:02:50,640
Speaker 1: this was terrible in a disaster, and after that they

1171
01:02:50,680 --> 01:02:52,920
Speaker 1: didn't really try to tamp down any of the speculations.

1172
01:02:52,920 --> 01:02:56,360
Speaker 1: So you also see from the highest levels how these

1173
01:02:56,360 --> 01:02:59,640
Speaker 1: were all business decisions, and again they didn't really care

1174
01:02:59,720 --> 01:03:03,240
Speaker 1: about like what was accurate or what they should be

1175
01:03:03,320 --> 01:03:07,880
Speaker 1: presenting to their audience. They no longer had control of

1176
01:03:08,240 --> 01:03:12,120
Speaker 1: the beast. They were riding the wave of what people

1177
01:03:12,200 --> 01:03:15,640
Speaker 1: already thought. So I think it also shows them as

1178
01:03:15,680 --> 01:03:20,000
Speaker 1: a lot more impotent than they are sometimes portrayed, which

1179
01:03:20,040 --> 01:03:23,320
Speaker 1: becomes relevant as you look at now like the Dessanta's

1180
01:03:23,400 --> 01:03:27,200
Speaker 1: Trump matchup Fox News, and all the Murdock properties are

1181
01:03:27,200 --> 01:03:30,040
Speaker 1: clearly on team DeSantis, and they've been doing what they

1182
01:03:30,040 --> 01:03:32,200
Speaker 1: can to promote him, pump him up. That New York

1183
01:03:32,240 --> 01:03:34,919
Speaker 1: Post interview with Rod DeSantis, there's just like the most

1184
01:03:34,960 --> 01:03:39,160
Speaker 1: embarrassing puff piece I've ever seen from Selena Zito. But

1185
01:03:39,720 --> 01:03:43,520
Speaker 1: how much will that really have an impact when clearly

1186
01:03:43,640 --> 01:03:47,080
Speaker 1: like they're not fully in control of what's going on here. Yeah,

1187
01:03:47,120 --> 01:03:51,200
Speaker 1: and again, like they actually canceled an episode of Janine

1188
01:03:51,200 --> 01:03:54,640
Speaker 1: Piro's show because they're of what the guests were going

1189
01:03:54,680 --> 01:03:57,840
Speaker 1: to say about the election. And so you see that

1190
01:03:57,920 --> 01:04:01,560
Speaker 1: they are trying. They are trying because they're using words

1191
01:04:01,600 --> 01:04:04,600
Speaker 1: like myth there that's from Rupert Murdoch. Actually, like that's

1192
01:04:04,600 --> 01:04:07,480
Speaker 1: a word that Rupert Murdoch himself used. One of the

1193
01:04:07,480 --> 01:04:09,320
Speaker 1: biggest things I thought actually to come out of this

1194
01:04:09,480 --> 01:04:13,200
Speaker 1: was Rupert Murdoch saying if we go all in on

1195
01:04:13,400 --> 01:04:17,600
Speaker 1: Arizona coverage that it might help the network or it

1196
01:04:17,640 --> 01:04:20,200
Speaker 1: sounded like even he wanted to kind of help Trump

1197
01:04:20,640 --> 01:04:25,280
Speaker 1: in Arizona coverage. And so that's interesting because you see

1198
01:04:25,320 --> 01:04:29,800
Speaker 1: Rupert Rupert Murdoch himself directly weighing in on editorial decisions

1199
01:04:29,840 --> 01:04:33,640
Speaker 1: at Fox News. That's a good insight into the network's operation,

1200
01:04:33,920 --> 01:04:38,240
Speaker 1: especially on sensitive stories like this. But I think there's

1201
01:04:38,040 --> 01:04:40,120
Speaker 1: a there's a way to look at it in which,

1202
01:04:40,440 --> 01:04:43,200
Speaker 1: to your point, Fox is trying to control the beast.

1203
01:04:43,240 --> 01:04:46,200
Speaker 1: They're trying to control lou Dabs, They're trying to control

1204
01:04:46,280 --> 01:04:52,960
Speaker 1: Janine Piro, They're trying to rein in something that I mean,

1205
01:04:53,520 --> 01:04:57,520
Speaker 1: in some extent, did they help foment the voting stuff

1206
01:04:57,560 --> 01:05:00,800
Speaker 1: is tough because they obviously didn't with Trump? Or are

1207
01:05:00,920 --> 01:05:03,800
Speaker 1: these opinion hosts We're mostly not talking about news hosts.

1208
01:05:03,800 --> 01:05:08,440
Speaker 1: We're mostly talking about their opinion hosts. They're upset internally

1209
01:05:08,480 --> 01:05:10,919
Speaker 1: with Trump. And that's a huge question, by the way,

1210
01:05:11,040 --> 01:05:14,160
Speaker 1: in the conservative movement in general, It's like, how much

1211
01:05:14,360 --> 01:05:18,720
Speaker 1: is it worth it to rebut everything that comes out

1212
01:05:18,720 --> 01:05:21,560
Speaker 1: of Donald Trump's mouth when the rest of the media

1213
01:05:21,680 --> 01:05:24,480
Speaker 1: exists to do exactly that and is going to spend

1214
01:05:24,560 --> 01:05:27,680
Speaker 1: every breath that they have rebutting everything that comes out

1215
01:05:27,720 --> 01:05:30,480
Speaker 1: of Trump's mouth. So what is the sort of cost

1216
01:05:30,520 --> 01:05:34,360
Speaker 1: benefit to fact checking everything Trump said? Like the Jackie

1217
01:05:34,400 --> 01:05:37,439
Speaker 1: Heinrich tweet, when all it does is sort of push

1218
01:05:37,520 --> 01:05:40,240
Speaker 1: your audience away and repeat what the rest of the

1219
01:05:40,280 --> 01:05:42,640
Speaker 1: media is doing. That is a huge question that people

1220
01:05:42,640 --> 01:05:45,280
Speaker 1: debate all the time, especially behind the scenes in the

1221
01:05:45,280 --> 01:05:47,960
Speaker 1: conservative movement. And I think that is a fair question

1222
01:05:48,040 --> 01:05:50,480
Speaker 1: to debate. What I don't think is fair to debate.

1223
01:05:50,600 --> 01:05:53,400
Speaker 1: And I know you, I'm sure you know people like this.

1224
01:05:53,640 --> 01:05:56,640
Speaker 1: I know people like this Zogerno's, people like this who

1225
01:05:57,200 --> 01:06:00,600
Speaker 1: knew what they were saying was garbage. They felt like

1226
01:06:00,960 --> 01:06:04,840
Speaker 1: their career and their paycheck dependent on saying it. Anyway,

1227
01:06:05,120 --> 01:06:07,520
Speaker 1: I don't think there is any greater contempt that you

1228
01:06:07,560 --> 01:06:09,840
Speaker 1: can show for a group of people and for your

1229
01:06:09,880 --> 01:06:12,560
Speaker 1: audience than to knowingly lie to them. I think that

1230
01:06:12,760 --> 01:06:15,920
Speaker 1: is the greatest form of contempt that you can show

1231
01:06:15,960 --> 01:06:19,400
Speaker 1: for somebody, to think that they're dumb enough that you

1232
01:06:19,560 --> 01:06:22,840
Speaker 1: can lie to them and just feed them what you know,

1233
01:06:23,080 --> 01:06:25,320
Speaker 1: you think they want to hear, and that that's what

1234
01:06:25,360 --> 01:06:28,720
Speaker 1: your job is. So there were a bunch of other

1235
01:06:28,840 --> 01:06:31,640
Speaker 1: little revelations we can put up here. Good to E three.

1236
01:06:31,960 --> 01:06:34,240
Speaker 1: We can show some of these specific quotes just so

1237
01:06:34,320 --> 01:06:36,080
Speaker 1: you get a sense of a little bit. This is

1238
01:06:36,240 --> 01:06:38,600
Speaker 1: uh Will Summer, who was with the is with the

1239
01:06:38,680 --> 01:06:43,920
Speaker 1: Daily beast Tucker of how Trump described him as a

1240
01:06:44,640 --> 01:06:49,080
Speaker 1: demonic force, a destroyer, but quote, He's not going to

1241
01:06:49,160 --> 01:06:54,120
Speaker 1: destroy us. He also said, uh, we are not going

1242
01:06:54,160 --> 01:06:57,160
Speaker 1: to follow them. What Trump's good at is destroying things.

1243
01:06:57,160 --> 01:07:00,440
Speaker 1: He's the undisputed world champions that he could easily destroy

1244
01:07:00,600 --> 01:07:03,800
Speaker 1: us if we play it wrong. So Tucker's kind of

1245
01:07:03,800 --> 01:07:06,600
Speaker 1: true feelings about Trump and what he's all about come

1246
01:07:06,640 --> 01:07:08,960
Speaker 1: out there. Let's kind of put this next one up

1247
01:07:08,960 --> 01:07:13,280
Speaker 1: on the screen. He also is freaking out after the election,

1248
01:07:13,360 --> 01:07:16,400
Speaker 1: hearing from anger viewers, worrying that Fox calling Arizona for

1249
01:07:16,440 --> 01:07:18,920
Speaker 1: Biden will kill his golden goose. That's the characterization of

1250
01:07:18,920 --> 01:07:24,040
Speaker 1: Will Summer, while also afraid of quote effing bitch, Sidney

1251
01:07:24,040 --> 01:07:28,840
Speaker 1: Palell has gone too far. He said directly that he

1252
01:07:28,920 --> 01:07:32,520
Speaker 1: told his producer Sidney Powell is lying, effing bitch. That's

1253
01:07:32,520 --> 01:07:34,560
Speaker 1: the quote. There. Let's go and put the next one

1254
01:07:34,680 --> 01:07:39,040
Speaker 1: up on the screen. You've got Fox brass and top

1255
01:07:39,080 --> 01:07:42,400
Speaker 1: hosts really not impressed with Rudy Giuliani. Hannity called him

1256
01:07:42,440 --> 01:07:45,200
Speaker 1: an insane person. Laura Ingram said he's such an idiot.

1257
01:07:45,480 --> 01:07:49,400
Speaker 1: Murdoch said really crazy stuff. So you kind of get

1258
01:07:49,440 --> 01:07:52,680
Speaker 1: the sense of the behind the scenes characterization, and they

1259
01:07:52,680 --> 01:07:54,840
Speaker 1: fought hard to, by the way, to keep these messages

1260
01:07:55,080 --> 01:07:57,120
Speaker 1: from coming out. And I think it was a New

1261
01:07:57,240 --> 01:08:00,640
Speaker 1: York Times lawsuit that ultimately led to them lifting the

1262
01:08:00,680 --> 01:08:03,920
Speaker 1: seal so that we all have access to this one

1263
01:08:04,000 --> 01:08:05,760
Speaker 1: last piece. Put this up on the screen, because this

1264
01:08:05,800 --> 01:08:08,760
Speaker 1: again gets to like the business model, and I think

1265
01:08:08,760 --> 01:08:12,200
Speaker 1: this is really important, Like whatever side of the political

1266
01:08:12,200 --> 01:08:16,160
Speaker 1: spectrum you are on, the business model is the thing

1267
01:08:16,240 --> 01:08:18,880
Speaker 1: driving all of the news and coverage at all three

1268
01:08:19,040 --> 01:08:21,679
Speaker 1: of the cable news networks. They are a business first.

1269
01:08:22,080 --> 01:08:26,280
Speaker 1: And so Lindell had made some negative comments about Fox

1270
01:08:26,320 --> 01:08:29,320
Speaker 1: over on Newsmax, and Lindell is not only like an

1271
01:08:29,320 --> 01:08:31,880
Speaker 1: important guest for Fox, but much more importantly, he spends

1272
01:08:31,920 --> 01:08:35,280
Speaker 1: a lot of money advertising on their network. And so

1273
01:08:35,720 --> 01:08:38,559
Speaker 1: the Fox's executives after we made those comments, they exchanged

1274
01:08:38,560 --> 01:08:41,280
Speaker 1: worried emails about alienating him, and then they sent him

1275
01:08:41,280 --> 01:08:45,160
Speaker 1: a gift along with a handwritten note from Suzanne Scott,

1276
01:08:45,439 --> 01:08:47,400
Speaker 1: and the filing goes on to say that they had

1277
01:08:47,400 --> 01:08:49,920
Speaker 1: a strong motive to welcome him back on air and

1278
01:08:49,960 --> 01:08:53,400
Speaker 1: avoid any sort of conflicts because of the advertising dollars

1279
01:08:53,400 --> 01:08:57,240
Speaker 1: that he was shipping to the network. Well, and imagine

1280
01:08:57,320 --> 01:08:59,840
Speaker 1: what this does to their relationship now, and imagine what

1281
01:09:00,200 --> 01:09:02,680
Speaker 1: is doing a lot of relationships at Fox News right

1282
01:09:02,720 --> 01:09:07,240
Speaker 1: now as this entire story has unfolded. And the probably

1283
01:09:07,800 --> 01:09:10,519
Speaker 1: most contentious point, or the one that probably the least

1284
01:09:10,520 --> 01:09:13,639
Speaker 1: popular with other people that I would make is Tucker

1285
01:09:13,760 --> 01:09:16,479
Speaker 1: I think emerges from this looking like somebody who was

1286
01:09:16,520 --> 01:09:19,200
Speaker 1: saying Donald Trump is being disrespectful to his own voters,

1287
01:09:19,479 --> 01:09:21,719
Speaker 1: and he was the one that like publicly did grill

1288
01:09:21,800 --> 01:09:24,679
Speaker 1: Sidney Powell, and he was trying. I think it's interesting

1289
01:09:24,680 --> 01:09:26,559
Speaker 1: that he's ended up getting so much of the heat

1290
01:09:26,640 --> 01:09:28,679
Speaker 1: because he is the top host at Fox that it's

1291
01:09:28,720 --> 01:09:31,840
Speaker 1: like all coming on him. Media hates like few people

1292
01:09:31,880 --> 01:09:34,280
Speaker 1: more than Tucker Carlson, so he's getting a lot of

1293
01:09:34,280 --> 01:09:36,760
Speaker 1: the flak for this. But it is an interesting like

1294
01:09:36,800 --> 01:09:39,000
Speaker 1: that in this broader context, at the point you made

1295
01:09:39,040 --> 01:09:41,760
Speaker 1: about like trying to then control the beast is a

1296
01:09:41,880 --> 01:09:44,320
Speaker 1: really really important one, and we are going to see

1297
01:09:44,320 --> 01:09:48,120
Speaker 1: Fox News continue grappling with that post, all of them

1298
01:09:48,160 --> 01:09:50,120
Speaker 1: knowing what each other, what they're saying about each other

1299
01:09:50,720 --> 01:09:53,599
Speaker 1: in this really difficult like six month period for them. Yeah. One,

1300
01:09:53,640 --> 01:09:55,280
Speaker 1: we have one more Tucker piece of news here that

1301
01:09:55,320 --> 01:09:58,240
Speaker 1: just came out yesterday as well, big news. Yeah, forty

1302
01:09:58,320 --> 01:10:03,080
Speaker 1: one thousand hours of January sixth footage was provided to

1303
01:10:03,200 --> 01:10:07,880
Speaker 1: Tucker Carlson by Kevin McCarthy. Democrats like Jamie Raskin are

1304
01:10:07,920 --> 01:10:10,280
Speaker 1: beside themselves with us. They said, it's sort of outrageous

1305
01:10:10,320 --> 01:10:12,799
Speaker 1: that Kevin McCarthy would turn over all of this footage

1306
01:10:12,800 --> 01:10:17,040
Speaker 1: to a quote pro putin journalist. Is what Jamie Raskin said.

1307
01:10:17,840 --> 01:10:22,200
Speaker 1: I think it's incredibly absurd, Yeah, to call Tucker Carlson

1308
01:10:22,280 --> 01:10:26,400
Speaker 1: pro putin. But forty one thousand hours of January six

1309
01:10:26,479 --> 01:10:30,400
Speaker 1: footage going to Tucker from Kevin McCarthy, we don't know

1310
01:10:30,439 --> 01:10:33,000
Speaker 1: what's going to happen to it yet, I'm curious. I

1311
01:10:33,040 --> 01:10:35,599
Speaker 1: think the government has been a little bit ridiculous with

1312
01:10:35,720 --> 01:10:38,720
Speaker 1: the January six footage because they want to promote a

1313
01:10:38,840 --> 01:10:43,080
Speaker 1: very particular narrative, and there are important facts to get

1314
01:10:43,120 --> 01:10:45,800
Speaker 1: right about January six. There are some big facts that people,

1315
01:10:45,920 --> 01:10:49,960
Speaker 1: especially conspiratorial people, get wrong about January six. But honestly,

1316
01:10:49,960 --> 01:10:52,839
Speaker 1: the more transparency the better. And I know I understand

1317
01:10:52,880 --> 01:10:56,400
Speaker 1: why people don't trust an opinion host to be the

1318
01:10:56,400 --> 01:10:59,080
Speaker 1: best steward of that footage. So I get it. I'm

1319
01:10:59,120 --> 01:11:03,320
Speaker 1: so curious. Listen, the answer to a lack of transparency

1320
01:11:03,439 --> 01:11:06,360
Speaker 1: or a one sided narrative isn't to hand the footage

1321
01:11:06,400 --> 01:11:08,360
Speaker 1: over to another person who's going to spin a one

1322
01:11:08,400 --> 01:11:11,280
Speaker 1: sided narrative. No, I agree. If you're interested in transparency,

1323
01:11:11,720 --> 01:11:14,799
Speaker 1: put the whole footage on to WikiLeaks. I mean absolutely

1324
01:11:14,840 --> 01:11:17,519
Speaker 1: put it all out there and let citizen journalists or

1325
01:11:17,720 --> 01:11:20,960
Speaker 1: you know, official draw whoever sifts through it and pull

1326
01:11:21,000 --> 01:11:23,599
Speaker 1: out parts that are new or different or relevant and

1327
01:11:24,320 --> 01:11:27,800
Speaker 1: like do that rather than all right, they had their

1328
01:11:27,840 --> 01:11:30,240
Speaker 1: partisan turn at this, We're going to have our partisan

1329
01:11:30,560 --> 01:11:33,000
Speaker 1: turn at it that only one side is going to

1330
01:11:33,040 --> 01:11:35,320
Speaker 1: ultimately pay attention to and listen to. So in that way,

1331
01:11:35,360 --> 01:11:38,360
Speaker 1: I think it's a disservice to accuracy in fact finding.

1332
01:11:38,600 --> 01:11:42,040
Speaker 1: And January sixth has become like basically the ultimate crystallization

1333
01:11:42,240 --> 01:11:44,960
Speaker 1: of how we're doing this on both sides. It's not

1334
01:11:45,040 --> 01:11:47,320
Speaker 1: both sides. Is and to say, because it's become this

1335
01:11:47,439 --> 01:11:50,759
Speaker 1: like weird tit for tat just on the congressional level

1336
01:11:50,880 --> 01:11:53,720
Speaker 1: with the committees. So then the reason you end up

1337
01:11:54,000 --> 01:11:57,479
Speaker 1: getting ilhan Omar booted from her committee and other people

1338
01:11:57,520 --> 01:12:01,120
Speaker 1: put it from their committee is because partially Republicans House Republicans.

1339
01:12:01,160 --> 01:12:03,599
Speaker 1: I talked to Kevin McCarthy about this hate the way

1340
01:12:03,600 --> 01:12:06,360
Speaker 1: that Nancy Pelosi treated them after January sixth, and so

1341
01:12:06,400 --> 01:12:08,519
Speaker 1: now they're getting into this back and forth and then

1342
01:12:08,560 --> 01:12:11,599
Speaker 1: giving the tapes to Tucker after the January sixth committee

1343
01:12:11,640 --> 01:12:14,920
Speaker 1: was so selective about the information that it released. It's

1344
01:12:14,960 --> 01:12:16,920
Speaker 1: again just the tit for tat, and you can see

1345
01:12:16,920 --> 01:12:19,200
Speaker 1: how it all comes together in January sixth is like

1346
01:12:19,520 --> 01:12:23,320
Speaker 1: the best shining example of how ridiculous our politics are

1347
01:12:23,400 --> 01:12:29,080
Speaker 1: right now. Yeah, I think that's all said. All right, Crystal,

1348
01:12:29,439 --> 01:12:32,280
Speaker 1: what's on your mind today? Well, the Republican twenty twenty

1349
01:12:32,280 --> 01:12:35,320
Speaker 1: four primary is just getting started, and already it's actually

1350
01:12:35,360 --> 01:12:38,360
Speaker 1: way more interesting than I initially expected. What do I

1351
01:12:38,400 --> 01:12:41,040
Speaker 1: mean by that? Well? I assumed Trump would just continue

1352
01:12:41,040 --> 01:12:43,519
Speaker 1: with his twenty twenty election conspiracies, which it seemed to

1353
01:12:43,520 --> 01:12:46,360
Speaker 1: be an all consuming focus after his loss, and that

1354
01:12:46,479 --> 01:12:48,920
Speaker 1: strategy it did have some logic to it. Trump had

1355
01:12:48,920 --> 01:12:51,559
Speaker 1: pretty successfully made stop this deal the key dividing line

1356
01:12:51,560 --> 01:12:53,879
Speaker 1: and GOP primaries for seats up and down the ballot.

1357
01:12:54,160 --> 01:12:56,920
Speaker 1: Where you stood on this array of conspiracies defined whether

1358
01:12:56,960 --> 01:12:59,439
Speaker 1: you were a real one or a rhino, and of

1359
01:12:59,479 --> 01:13:01,400
Speaker 1: course no one would be willing to go as far

1360
01:13:01,520 --> 01:13:03,679
Speaker 1: on the issue as Trump himself would, and that would

1361
01:13:03,720 --> 01:13:05,680
Speaker 1: force the other twenty twenty four contenders to make a

1362
01:13:05,760 --> 01:13:08,880
Speaker 1: choice between preserving some shred of their dignity but signing

1363
01:13:08,920 --> 01:13:11,800
Speaker 1: up for sure fire defeat, or abandoning their dignity and

1364
01:13:12,080 --> 01:13:14,519
Speaker 1: still probably losing. But of course, as we saw in

1365
01:13:14,560 --> 01:13:18,160
Speaker 1: twenty twenty two, while fully embracing all the crazy might

1366
01:13:18,200 --> 01:13:21,000
Speaker 1: have helped candidates to win in a GOP primary, it

1367
01:13:21,120 --> 01:13:22,960
Speaker 1: also turned out to be the best way to get

1368
01:13:23,000 --> 01:13:26,000
Speaker 1: yourself destroyed when it came to the general election. Perhaps

1369
01:13:26,080 --> 01:13:29,559
Speaker 1: Trump actually learned something from the twenty twenty two election results,

1370
01:13:29,560 --> 01:13:32,840
Speaker 1: because he certainly still spouts off about election nonsense, but

1371
01:13:32,920 --> 01:13:35,160
Speaker 1: he's drown some very different battle lines for the twenty

1372
01:13:35,200 --> 01:13:38,760
Speaker 1: twenty four primary. Trump is launching a GOP civil war

1373
01:13:38,880 --> 01:13:42,720
Speaker 1: right now over two issues, entitlements and US policy on

1374
01:13:42,760 --> 01:13:46,000
Speaker 1: the Ukraine War. Both of these issues have some echoes

1375
01:13:46,040 --> 01:13:48,559
Speaker 1: in twenty sixteen now, if you'll recall, in that election,

1376
01:13:48,680 --> 01:13:52,280
Speaker 1: Trump successfully identified a set of key issues where the

1377
01:13:52,320 --> 01:13:56,639
Speaker 1: Republican base and GOP elites were directly at odds. In fact,

1378
01:13:56,960 --> 01:13:59,960
Speaker 1: his defense of social security and Medicare is pulled straight

1379
01:14:00,160 --> 01:14:03,120
Speaker 1: from that twenty sixteen playbook, and his move on Ukraine

1380
01:14:03,200 --> 01:14:05,479
Speaker 1: echoes his stance on the Iraq War at the time.

1381
01:14:05,479 --> 01:14:08,960
Speaker 1: Both were pretty astonishing. After all, the previous nominee was

1382
01:14:09,120 --> 01:14:12,360
Speaker 1: literally met Romney with boy wonder Paul Ryan. Romney and

1383
01:14:12,439 --> 01:14:16,040
Speaker 1: Ryan leaned into ideas to both cut Social Security and Medicare.

1384
01:14:16,280 --> 01:14:19,439
Speaker 1: Ryan's entire rise to prominence in the party was enabled

1385
01:14:19,479 --> 01:14:23,639
Speaker 1: by elite swooning over his austerity politics, including vaucherizing Medicare.

1386
01:14:23,960 --> 01:14:26,599
Speaker 1: The commentariat just sort of assumed that the GOP base

1387
01:14:26,960 --> 01:14:30,200
Speaker 1: actually wanted a dismantling of both of those programs, but

1388
01:14:30,240 --> 01:14:33,120
Speaker 1: they didn't like the rest of America. They liked Medicare

1389
01:14:33,240 --> 01:14:35,960
Speaker 1: and they liked Social Security, and guess what they still

1390
01:14:36,000 --> 01:14:38,360
Speaker 1: do this time. Trump is not the only one in

1391
01:14:38,360 --> 01:14:40,679
Speaker 1: the GOP who wants to keep Social Security in Medicare

1392
01:14:40,720 --> 01:14:44,400
Speaker 1: as they are, but the overwhelming majority of party elites

1393
01:14:44,439 --> 01:14:48,439
Speaker 1: are still either actively pushing for cuts or trying desperately

1394
01:14:48,479 --> 01:14:51,920
Speaker 1: to run away from their long track records of embracing

1395
01:14:52,040 --> 01:14:56,439
Speaker 1: Paul Ryan's style cuts. And that overwhelming majority includes every

1396
01:14:56,439 --> 01:14:59,200
Speaker 1: single Republican who's planning to run against Trump in twenty

1397
01:14:59,280 --> 01:15:02,840
Speaker 1: twenty four, Nikki Haley confirmed in her presidential launch weeek

1398
01:15:02,880 --> 01:15:05,920
Speaker 1: that she is still committed to entitlement cuts. Trump hit

1399
01:15:05,920 --> 01:15:08,559
Speaker 1: her for this stance in his campaign's reaction to her launch,

1400
01:15:08,600 --> 01:15:12,040
Speaker 1: writing that quote, Haley supported Paul Ryan's plan for entitlement

1401
01:15:12,040 --> 01:15:15,120
Speaker 1: reforms threatening Medicare and Social Security. He also knocked her

1402
01:15:15,120 --> 01:15:17,320
Speaker 1: there for something nice she once said about Hillary Clinton.

1403
01:15:17,360 --> 01:15:20,160
Speaker 1: It's kind of funny Mike Pence, who's widely expected to run,

1404
01:15:20,200 --> 01:15:23,000
Speaker 1: he has insanely come out for a social security privatization

1405
01:15:23,120 --> 01:15:25,439
Speaker 1: scheme similar to the one that George W. Bush tried

1406
01:15:25,520 --> 01:15:28,320
Speaker 1: and utterly failed with. I actually sort of respect the

1407
01:15:28,360 --> 01:15:31,120
Speaker 1: honesty from Pence, even if it is a political death wish.

1408
01:15:31,439 --> 01:15:33,400
Speaker 1: Now it remains to be seen what Ron DeSantis is

1409
01:15:33,439 --> 01:15:35,080
Speaker 1: going to say on the issue, but he's got a record.

1410
01:15:35,120 --> 01:15:38,120
Speaker 1: Trump is already using to attack him. In just one instance,

1411
01:15:38,280 --> 01:15:40,680
Speaker 1: here's DeSantis, while he was running for Congress as a

1412
01:15:40,680 --> 01:15:44,400
Speaker 1: Tea Party Republican, backing Paul Ryan's plan for Medicare while

1413
01:15:44,439 --> 01:15:47,880
Speaker 1: also pushing similar cuts to Social Security by increasing the

1414
01:15:47,880 --> 01:15:51,559
Speaker 1: eligibility age. So I would embrace proposals, you know, like

1415
01:15:51,640 --> 01:15:55,000
Speaker 1: Paul Ryan offered, and other people have offered that are

1416
01:15:55,000 --> 01:15:59,479
Speaker 1: going to you know, provide some market forces in there,

1417
01:15:59,560 --> 01:16:03,479
Speaker 1: more or choice, and make it so that it's not

1418
01:16:03,800 --> 01:16:06,479
Speaker 1: just basically a system that's gonna that's going to be

1419
01:16:06,520 --> 01:16:10,520
Speaker 1: bankrupt when you have new people coming into it. Social Security,

1420
01:16:11,400 --> 01:16:13,320
Speaker 1: you know, I would do the same thing. Social Security

1421
01:16:13,360 --> 01:16:17,680
Speaker 1: is actually not as as as bad as medicare in

1422
01:16:17,680 --> 01:16:20,200
Speaker 1: the sense that you know, it had been running surpluses

1423
01:16:20,240 --> 01:16:22,439
Speaker 1: for a long time. Now it's running a deficit. So

1424
01:16:22,800 --> 01:16:25,920
Speaker 1: there's nothing left in Social Security. It's guys like me

1425
01:16:26,040 --> 01:16:28,040
Speaker 1: pay into it, and then people who are on Social

1426
01:16:28,080 --> 01:16:31,479
Speaker 1: Security that check immediately goes out to them. We're now

1427
01:16:31,640 --> 01:16:33,880
Speaker 1: taking in less than the checks are going out, and

1428
01:16:33,920 --> 01:16:36,040
Speaker 1: so that's problem is gonna get worse. But I think

1429
01:16:36,040 --> 01:16:39,200
Speaker 1: for people in my generation, you know, my life expectancy,

1430
01:16:39,240 --> 01:16:40,960
Speaker 1: and again I wouldn't change it for people who are

1431
01:16:40,960 --> 01:16:45,040
Speaker 1: on it now. But my life expectancy is, I mean,

1432
01:16:45,320 --> 01:16:48,200
Speaker 1: it's it's improved. I was born in seventy eight, and

1433
01:16:48,320 --> 01:16:50,640
Speaker 1: I mean it's probably improved five or six years just

1434
01:16:50,720 --> 01:16:54,160
Speaker 1: on average. That that tends to annoy people when I

1435
01:16:54,200 --> 01:16:55,680
Speaker 1: tell them I'm going to be around for a few

1436
01:16:55,680 --> 01:16:59,720
Speaker 1: more years later, but it's it's true and so you know, me,

1437
01:16:59,760 --> 01:17:02,479
Speaker 1: get any social Security at sixty five or sixty seven

1438
01:17:02,479 --> 01:17:04,559
Speaker 1: if I'm gonna live, you know, for in the my

1439
01:17:04,640 --> 01:17:08,439
Speaker 1: eighties is probably not sustainable. Now. Trump has issued a

1440
01:17:08,439 --> 01:17:10,599
Speaker 1: series of truths this week about the man he swears

1441
01:17:10,640 --> 01:17:12,680
Speaker 1: he definitely does not call me Paul Ron. Every one

1442
01:17:12,680 --> 01:17:15,000
Speaker 1: of his comments goes after DeSantis for wanting to cut

1443
01:17:15,040 --> 01:17:17,519
Speaker 1: Social Security and wanting to cut Medicare. Here's a little

1444
01:17:17,520 --> 01:17:20,280
Speaker 1: taste of some of those he said. Ronda Sanctimonius wants

1445
01:17:20,280 --> 01:17:22,559
Speaker 1: to cut your social Security and Medicare, closed up Flora

1446
01:17:22,600 --> 01:17:26,080
Speaker 1: and speeches loves Rhinos, Paul Ryan, Jeb Bush, and Carl

1447
01:17:26,160 --> 01:17:29,719
Speaker 1: Rove disasters all is backed by Globalist Club for No Growth,

1448
01:17:30,200 --> 01:17:34,479
Speaker 1: Lincoln Pervert Project, and quote uninspired coke. And it only

1449
01:17:34,479 --> 01:17:36,639
Speaker 1: gets worse from there. He is a rhino in disguise

1450
01:17:36,680 --> 01:17:39,200
Speaker 1: whose pull numbers are dropping like a rock. Good luck Ron.

1451
01:17:39,280 --> 01:17:41,479
Speaker 1: In another one, he writes support for Desanta's cools and

1452
01:17:41,560 --> 01:17:44,400
Speaker 1: latest goopee pole from the Washington Times. Of course it cools,

1453
01:17:44,479 --> 01:17:46,960
Speaker 1: he wants to cut social Security and Medicare. Loves throw

1454
01:17:47,000 --> 01:17:49,080
Speaker 1: them over the cliff. Paul Ryan, who is destroying Fox

1455
01:17:49,120 --> 01:17:51,880
Speaker 1: News and the Wall Street Journal, pig lit Carl Rove

1456
01:17:52,080 --> 01:17:54,720
Speaker 1: and Jeb You get the point. There's a lot like this.

1457
01:17:55,200 --> 01:17:58,040
Speaker 1: Does the Santis stick with his previous position even though

1458
01:17:58,040 --> 01:18:00,040
Speaker 1: it's politically toxic, or does he flip flop in the

1459
01:18:00,080 --> 01:18:02,280
Speaker 1: face of the attacks and potentially look weak. It's not

1460
01:18:02,320 --> 01:18:04,880
Speaker 1: an easy one for him ultimately to navigate. We're getting

1461
01:18:04,880 --> 01:18:06,680
Speaker 1: a first glimpse though, of how he is going to

1462
01:18:06,680 --> 01:18:09,120
Speaker 1: handle the other issue Trump is making central to his

1463
01:18:09,160 --> 01:18:11,720
Speaker 1: twenty twenty four pitch, and that is limiting support for

1464
01:18:11,800 --> 01:18:14,960
Speaker 1: Ukraine or cutting aid altogether to push them for a deal.

1465
01:18:15,320 --> 01:18:17,840
Speaker 1: DeSantis was on Fox and Friends yesterday sounding much more

1466
01:18:17,880 --> 01:18:20,880
Speaker 1: like the Ukraine's skeptical side of the GOP. Thanks first

1467
01:18:20,880 --> 01:18:22,519
Speaker 1: on the presidents un announced visitor. Is this a good

1468
01:18:22,520 --> 01:18:26,519
Speaker 1: move for you? Know, Brian? I'm reminded of when he

1469
01:18:26,560 --> 01:18:30,200
Speaker 1: was vice president, Obama and Biden opposed providing leath the

1470
01:18:30,280 --> 01:18:33,120
Speaker 1: laid to Ukraine during those years. Then I'm also reminded

1471
01:18:33,120 --> 01:18:34,719
Speaker 1: that I don't think any of this would have happened

1472
01:18:34,960 --> 01:18:36,960
Speaker 1: but for the weakness that the President showed during his

1473
01:18:37,040 --> 01:18:39,760
Speaker 1: first year in office, culminating of course, and the disastrous

1474
01:18:39,760 --> 01:18:42,439
Speaker 1: withdrawal in Afghanistan. So I think while he's over there.

1475
01:18:42,600 --> 01:18:45,400
Speaker 1: I think I and many Americans are thinking to ourselves, Okay,

1476
01:18:45,400 --> 01:18:48,080
Speaker 1: he's very concerned about those borders halfway around the world.

1477
01:18:48,280 --> 01:18:50,400
Speaker 1: He's not done anything to secure our own border. Here

1478
01:18:50,439 --> 01:18:52,680
Speaker 1: at home, We've had millions and millions of people pour in,

1479
01:18:52,960 --> 01:18:55,439
Speaker 1: tens of thousands of Americans dead because of fence at all.

1480
01:18:55,520 --> 01:18:57,880
Speaker 1: And then, of course we just suffered a national humiliation

1481
01:18:58,160 --> 01:19:00,880
Speaker 1: of having China fly a spy balloon year across the

1482
01:19:00,920 --> 01:19:03,280
Speaker 1: continental United States. So we have a lot of problems

1483
01:19:03,320 --> 01:19:06,240
Speaker 1: accumulating here in our own country that he is neglecting.

1484
01:19:06,640 --> 01:19:08,720
Speaker 1: So Desantas has a good can line there for the

1485
01:19:08,760 --> 01:19:10,840
Speaker 1: GOP base about why does Biden cares so much about

1486
01:19:10,920 --> 01:19:13,479
Speaker 1: Ukrainian borders when he's not doing enough for our own borders.

1487
01:19:13,520 --> 01:19:15,679
Speaker 1: It allows him to virtue signals to the Ukraine skeptics

1488
01:19:15,680 --> 01:19:18,240
Speaker 1: without actually saying whether he would really do anything differently,

1489
01:19:18,600 --> 01:19:20,880
Speaker 1: But one wonders what ground he will actually stake out

1490
01:19:20,920 --> 01:19:22,599
Speaker 1: when head to head against a guy and Donald Trump

1491
01:19:22,600 --> 01:19:24,759
Speaker 1: who's willing to come out and say things very directly

1492
01:19:24,880 --> 01:19:27,759
Speaker 1: like this, first come the tanks, then come the nukes.

1493
01:19:27,880 --> 01:19:30,840
Speaker 1: Get this crazy war ended now? So easy to do

1494
01:19:31,400 --> 01:19:34,559
Speaker 1: now the politics on Ukraine with the GOP base, they've

1495
01:19:34,600 --> 01:19:38,280
Speaker 1: actually become pretty clearcut. Skepticism of further aid is already

1496
01:19:38,320 --> 01:19:40,839
Speaker 1: the majority position, and it only seems to be growing.

1497
01:19:41,040 --> 01:19:42,719
Speaker 1: But Trump is not out of step with the broader

1498
01:19:42,760 --> 01:19:45,960
Speaker 1: public either. Take a look at this. Fifty seven percent

1499
01:19:45,960 --> 01:19:49,960
Speaker 1: of Americans, including majorities of Democrats and Republicans, would like

1500
01:19:50,040 --> 01:19:53,920
Speaker 1: to see diplomatic negotiations even if they lead to Ukrainian concessions,

1501
01:19:54,240 --> 01:19:58,320
Speaker 1: and only thirty two percent oppose those sorts of negotiations. Now,

1502
01:19:58,360 --> 01:20:01,479
Speaker 1: the remainders say they're not sure. This is from September two,

1503
01:20:01,520 --> 01:20:04,280
Speaker 1: and all indications are that support for the endless blank

1504
01:20:04,400 --> 01:20:07,880
Speaker 1: check has only deteriorated from there. Across the board now,

1505
01:20:07,880 --> 01:20:09,840
Speaker 1: Trump has been all over the place on his views

1506
01:20:09,840 --> 01:20:12,759
Speaker 1: on the Ukraine War since Russia first invaded. At times

1507
01:20:12,760 --> 01:20:15,320
Speaker 1: he's pushed for a more hawkish approach, but he seems

1508
01:20:15,360 --> 01:20:17,680
Speaker 1: to sniff down the position he now believes will be

1509
01:20:17,720 --> 01:20:21,559
Speaker 1: a political winner, and everyone else is being forced to react.

1510
01:20:21,960 --> 01:20:24,880
Speaker 1: DeSantis is hoping that the cultural ground he is staked

1511
01:20:24,880 --> 01:20:28,360
Speaker 1: down on issues like trans kids, CRT tech, He's hoping

1512
01:20:28,439 --> 01:20:30,839
Speaker 1: those will be the driving factors of the GOP primary.

1513
01:20:30,880 --> 01:20:33,799
Speaker 1: And listen after Trump thoroughly abandoned many of his populist

1514
01:20:33,840 --> 01:20:36,560
Speaker 1: economic positions as president. There is a good chance a

1515
01:20:36,600 --> 01:20:39,439
Speaker 1: Republican base has been trained to respond more viscerally to

1516
01:20:39,520 --> 01:20:42,120
Speaker 1: these type of cultural fights that DeSantis has engaged in.

1517
01:20:42,520 --> 01:20:44,880
Speaker 1: It has certainly served him well as governor thus far.

1518
01:20:45,240 --> 01:20:47,360
Speaker 1: But it appears to me that Trump is already doing

1519
01:20:47,400 --> 01:20:50,599
Speaker 1: what he does best, shaping the battlefield, forcing everyone else

1520
01:20:50,600 --> 01:20:52,880
Speaker 1: to fight on the terrain of his choosing with the

1521
01:20:52,920 --> 01:20:56,040
Speaker 1: issues that he wants to focus on. Is Trump's world,

1522
01:20:56,120 --> 01:20:58,439
Speaker 1: and for better or worse, we are all still living

1523
01:20:58,439 --> 01:21:05,640
Speaker 1: in it. Been surprised by the all right, Emily, what

1524
01:21:05,640 --> 01:21:08,200
Speaker 1: are you looking at? All? Right? Well? On Monday, the

1525
01:21:08,360 --> 01:21:11,640
Speaker 1: National Endowment for Democracy announced it was parting ways with

1526
01:21:11,720 --> 01:21:15,320
Speaker 1: the Global Disinformation Index. Most Americans have never heard of

1527
01:21:15,360 --> 01:21:18,200
Speaker 1: those two groups, but they've surely felt their influence. The

1528
01:21:18,360 --> 01:21:21,960
Speaker 1: NED is actually mostly funded by the State Department. The

1529
01:21:22,040 --> 01:21:26,000
Speaker 1: GDI is a British organization that purports to police disinfo.

1530
01:21:26,479 --> 01:21:30,280
Speaker 1: It has recently received hundreds of thousands of American taxpayer

1531
01:21:30,360 --> 01:21:33,559
Speaker 1: dollars from the ND and other entities. And that's all

1532
01:21:33,600 --> 01:21:37,000
Speaker 1: according to a deep investigation published last week in The

1533
01:21:37,080 --> 01:21:39,080
Speaker 1: Washington Examiner. Now I want to give a quick shout

1534
01:21:39,080 --> 01:21:41,960
Speaker 1: out to my former intern Gab Kaminski for this deeply

1535
01:21:42,000 --> 01:21:44,920
Speaker 1: reported series over at The Examiner, without which the powerbrokers

1536
01:21:44,960 --> 01:21:48,599
Speaker 1: involved here would have continued with their quiet grift. Gabe

1537
01:21:48,680 --> 01:21:53,360
Speaker 1: series resulted in Microsoft and the NED both severing ties

1538
01:21:53,680 --> 01:21:57,360
Speaker 1: with the GDI the Global Disinformation Index amid pressure to

1539
01:21:57,439 --> 01:22:02,639
Speaker 1: deplatform alleged disinformation. Microsoft's Zander and the State Department funded

1540
01:22:02,960 --> 01:22:06,479
Speaker 1: the GDI. In turn, the GDI developed a blacklist of

1541
01:22:06,560 --> 01:22:10,479
Speaker 1: anti establishment conservative websites that, to quote The Examiner, were

1542
01:22:10,920 --> 01:22:15,240
Speaker 1: fed to advertisers. GDI's list of the top ten most

1543
01:22:15,280 --> 01:22:18,440
Speaker 1: and least risky news outlets is still on its website.

1544
01:22:18,560 --> 01:22:21,200
Speaker 1: On the left, literally you can see all the liberal sites,

1545
01:22:21,240 --> 01:22:23,680
Speaker 1: and on the right literally you can see all all

1546
01:22:23,680 --> 01:22:26,479
Speaker 1: of the conservative sites, including, of course my employer, the

1547
01:22:26,479 --> 01:22:30,360
Speaker 1: Federalist now former States Department official Mike Bens explained to

1548
01:22:30,400 --> 01:22:35,640
Speaker 1: The Examiner why that GDI exclusion list matters. It's devastating,

1549
01:22:35,720 --> 01:22:40,400
Speaker 1: he said. The implementation of ad revenue crushing sentinels like NewsGuard,

1550
01:22:40,400 --> 01:22:44,120
Speaker 1: Global Disinformation Index and the like have completely crippled the

1551
01:22:44,120 --> 01:22:47,599
Speaker 1: potential of alternative news sources to compete on an even

1552
01:22:47,600 --> 01:22:51,040
Speaker 1: economic playing field with approved media outlets like CNN and

1553
01:22:51,080 --> 01:22:54,759
Speaker 1: The New York Times. That's absolutely true. No publication is perfect,

1554
01:22:54,760 --> 01:22:58,200
Speaker 1: but much of conservative media correctly reported on major stories

1555
01:22:58,200 --> 01:23:02,639
Speaker 1: that corporate media, with all of their resources, utterly botched

1556
01:23:02,640 --> 01:23:06,160
Speaker 1: in recent years. Sometimes they lied, other times they lacked

1557
01:23:06,200 --> 01:23:09,800
Speaker 1: the objectivity to CBN ideology. But they were often wrong,

1558
01:23:09,920 --> 01:23:13,479
Speaker 1: and honestly, we were often right. More importantly, their errors

1559
01:23:13,520 --> 01:23:18,120
Speaker 1: all served the political establishment, while our accuracies all challenged

1560
01:23:18,160 --> 01:23:21,640
Speaker 1: the political establishment. We'll get fact checked and then suppressed

1561
01:23:21,720 --> 01:23:25,080
Speaker 1: like crazy for reporting completely accurate information about say Pete

1562
01:23:25,120 --> 01:23:28,080
Speaker 1: mooda judge. Well, the New York Times gets Yulitzer Prizes

1563
01:23:28,120 --> 01:23:32,080
Speaker 1: for reporting inaccurate information. That's just just how it works,

1564
01:23:32,240 --> 01:23:34,680
Speaker 1: so you can understand why the state Department and a

1565
01:23:34,720 --> 01:23:39,919
Speaker 1: powerful corporation like Microsoft might turn to a group like GDI. Basically,

1566
01:23:39,960 --> 01:23:44,839
Speaker 1: taxpayer money was used to misinform taxpayers and disempower critics

1567
01:23:44,840 --> 01:23:48,240
Speaker 1: of the government. This helped major corporations feel better about

1568
01:23:48,280 --> 01:23:53,120
Speaker 1: their advertisements and effectively defunded anti establishment conservatives who like

1569
01:23:53,160 --> 01:23:56,439
Speaker 1: it or not. We're reporting information much closer to the

1570
01:23:56,479 --> 01:24:00,360
Speaker 1: truth on several major stories. Remember, the disinformation label is

1571
01:24:00,400 --> 01:24:03,280
Speaker 1: not and will not only be used to silence the right.

1572
01:24:03,439 --> 01:24:07,320
Speaker 1: Matt Tayebi's reporting on Hamilton sixty eight showed clearly that

1573
01:24:07,520 --> 01:24:11,920
Speaker 1: powerful people were happy to categorize leftist journalism as the

1574
01:24:12,040 --> 01:24:16,919
Speaker 1: product of Russian influence operations so long as it threatened elites.

1575
01:24:17,240 --> 01:24:20,560
Speaker 1: People are largely familiar with the corporate media media's failures

1576
01:24:20,560 --> 01:24:24,519
Speaker 1: on twenty sixteen, Hunter Biden, Russiagate, and much more. Many

1577
01:24:24,680 --> 01:24:29,160
Speaker 1: understand our elites are eagerly flinging charges of disinformation at

1578
01:24:29,160 --> 01:24:32,120
Speaker 1: their opponents to shut them down. But it's important we

1579
01:24:32,200 --> 01:24:36,720
Speaker 1: realize they are laundering the credibility of our government and

1580
01:24:36,880 --> 01:24:41,360
Speaker 1: using public money to undermine the free press. They are

1581
01:24:41,439 --> 01:24:45,960
Speaker 1: intentionally using your money to empower journalists who are lying

1582
01:24:46,040 --> 01:24:49,000
Speaker 1: to you. And GDI is not alone. Other groups are

1583
01:24:49,080 --> 01:24:52,840
Speaker 1: engaged in similar efforts, and other corporations are taking debate.

1584
01:24:53,240 --> 01:24:56,479
Speaker 1: The entire operation is complex and tangled. It's full of

1585
01:24:56,479 --> 01:25:01,559
Speaker 1: these alphabet soup organizations, powerful boards, and long money trails.

1586
01:25:01,800 --> 01:25:04,640
Speaker 1: But the bottom line is that the serious issue of disinformation,

1587
01:25:04,880 --> 01:25:07,680
Speaker 1: and it is a serious issue, is being weaponized to

1588
01:25:07,840 --> 01:25:11,160
Speaker 1: silence critics of corrupt elites, and it's happening right under

1589
01:25:11,200 --> 01:25:20,639
Speaker 1: our noses. Wow, that list National political reporter Dave Weigel

1590
01:25:20,680 --> 01:25:22,479
Speaker 1: has been on the ground in a lot of the

1591
01:25:22,520 --> 01:25:26,679
Speaker 1: early primary states, tracking in particular the Republican primary field,

1592
01:25:26,800 --> 01:25:29,320
Speaker 1: and he joins us now from some ofph Welcome Dave,

1593
01:25:30,600 --> 01:25:33,080
Speaker 1: good to be here. Thank you for having me. Yeah, absolutely,

1594
01:25:33,160 --> 01:25:35,559
Speaker 1: so we covered last week and I know you've been

1595
01:25:35,680 --> 01:25:37,840
Speaker 1: eleve in person with Nicki Haley, one of the first

1596
01:25:37,920 --> 01:25:40,479
Speaker 1: to jump into the race against Alan Trump. Let's gott

1597
01:25:40,479 --> 01:25:42,240
Speaker 1: and put your piece up on the screen so people

1598
01:25:42,520 --> 01:25:44,240
Speaker 1: can get a sense of what you're writing over there.

1599
01:25:44,280 --> 01:25:49,479
Speaker 1: You say, Nicki Haley's pitch conservative policies minus the trumpy chaos, which,

1600
01:25:49,800 --> 01:25:52,160
Speaker 1: in a sense, it's kind of impressive that you're able

1601
01:25:52,200 --> 01:25:54,400
Speaker 1: to define Nicky Haley's pitch, because I'm not sure she

1602
01:25:54,479 --> 01:25:57,479
Speaker 1: has done that well defining her own pitch in multiple

1603
01:25:57,479 --> 01:26:01,760
Speaker 1: media appearances. Yeah, it was a matter of listening to

1604
01:26:02,160 --> 01:26:04,400
Speaker 1: the public facing part of her campaign. The interviews she

1605
01:26:04,840 --> 01:26:07,559
Speaker 1: selected to do. She didn't do gaggles as much as

1606
01:26:07,560 --> 01:26:10,519
Speaker 1: she kind of pulled a sized local media and the

1607
01:26:10,520 --> 01:26:12,600
Speaker 1: speeches she gave. The town hall question she took, she

1608
01:26:12,640 --> 01:26:15,040
Speaker 1: had this format. Starting in Charleston. She had a longer

1609
01:26:15,080 --> 01:26:17,720
Speaker 1: speech that laid out everything. This is where she introduced,

1610
01:26:17,920 --> 01:26:20,040
Speaker 1: I'd say, is it fair to say the most the

1611
01:26:20,080 --> 01:26:22,160
Speaker 1: best known part of her campaigns so far is this

1612
01:26:22,880 --> 01:26:25,479
Speaker 1: idea of making every politician over seventy five take a

1613
01:26:25,560 --> 01:26:28,600
Speaker 1: mental acuity test. Right, That was where she launched that

1614
01:26:29,160 --> 01:26:32,040
Speaker 1: got applause in New Hampshire. The rest of it was

1615
01:26:32,120 --> 01:26:33,760
Speaker 1: the sort of a rundown of things that are wrong

1616
01:26:33,760 --> 01:26:37,320
Speaker 1: with America and how with young, new generation leadership we

1617
01:26:37,360 --> 01:26:41,120
Speaker 1: can fix it. Fairly light on detail and especially the

1618
01:26:41,160 --> 01:26:43,120
Speaker 1: most interesting back and forth I saw was in New

1619
01:26:43,120 --> 01:26:45,840
Speaker 1: Hampshire where a teacher who was pretty skeptical Hailey to

1620
01:26:45,920 --> 01:26:49,400
Speaker 1: start with, asked what she would do to end the

1621
01:26:49,439 --> 01:26:53,320
Speaker 1: harassment of teachers, the context being Florida to Santus all that,

1622
01:26:53,840 --> 01:26:57,519
Speaker 1: and Haley's answer was, well, the people don't hate teachers,

1623
01:26:57,520 --> 01:26:59,080
Speaker 1: they hate your school board. And then she kind of

1624
01:26:59,080 --> 01:27:00,960
Speaker 1: gave her boiler plate ants about that and start talking

1625
01:27:00,960 --> 01:27:03,519
Speaker 1: about school of choice. So so far she has not

1626
01:27:03,560 --> 01:27:06,719
Speaker 1: been pushed off this box of issues that she prepared

1627
01:27:06,760 --> 01:27:09,680
Speaker 1: to run on in eighties. Which is which is? Which

1628
01:27:09,720 --> 01:27:11,880
Speaker 1: is a skill? I mean sometimes remember Joe Biden to

1629
01:27:11,920 --> 01:27:13,720
Speaker 1: two thousand and seven, his very first year he was

1630
01:27:13,760 --> 01:27:16,519
Speaker 1: a candidate with my colleague Ben Smith. That's where he

1631
01:27:16,760 --> 01:27:19,960
Speaker 1: calls Obama articulate. She didn't do that. She didn't make

1632
01:27:20,040 --> 01:27:21,439
Speaker 1: him in a a state in the first week, but she

1633
01:27:21,479 --> 01:27:23,160
Speaker 1: didn't lay a lot of a lot of substance out

1634
01:27:23,160 --> 01:27:25,880
Speaker 1: about how she would govern well and just zooming in

1635
01:27:25,920 --> 01:27:28,919
Speaker 1: on the headline itself, just those two words conservative policies

1636
01:27:28,960 --> 01:27:31,519
Speaker 1: and as you mentioned, Dave, that box of issues Nicki

1637
01:27:31,600 --> 01:27:34,080
Speaker 1: Haley is planning to run on. That in and of

1638
01:27:34,120 --> 01:27:37,160
Speaker 1: itself is a huge question. You know, Nikki Haley pivoting

1639
01:27:37,200 --> 01:27:40,840
Speaker 1: to school choice, which is a sort of old conservative

1640
01:27:41,160 --> 01:27:44,559
Speaker 1: issue and an old conservative favorite, a very sweet spot,

1641
01:27:44,600 --> 01:27:47,360
Speaker 1: a comfort spot for so many conservatives. So can you

1642
01:27:47,400 --> 01:27:49,639
Speaker 1: just tell us more about what that box of issues

1643
01:27:49,720 --> 01:27:52,559
Speaker 1: looks like. Haley herself has come out and disagreed with

1644
01:27:52,640 --> 01:27:56,519
Speaker 1: a lot of populist economic policies Republicans like JD. Vance

1645
01:27:56,600 --> 01:28:00,000
Speaker 1: or Donald Trump themselves have proposed. Is she being aggressive

1646
01:28:00,160 --> 01:28:03,800
Speaker 1: of in rebutting those policies off the bat, or is

1647
01:28:03,840 --> 01:28:06,240
Speaker 1: she more just trying to present the issues that she

1648
01:28:06,360 --> 01:28:08,639
Speaker 1: does want to run on. Basically, what does that box

1649
01:28:08,680 --> 01:28:12,080
Speaker 1: look like? I'd say where she's distinguished herself most from

1650
01:28:12,080 --> 01:28:13,439
Speaker 1: the field and the field at this point is her

1651
01:28:13,600 --> 01:28:15,400
Speaker 1: Donald Trump and a couple other people who are not

1652
01:28:15,479 --> 01:28:20,759
Speaker 1: very well known. Is being very supportive of US support

1653
01:28:20,800 --> 01:28:24,280
Speaker 1: for the war Inine for Ukraine's defense against Russian invasion.

1654
01:28:24,920 --> 01:28:29,080
Speaker 1: She brought that up kind of unbidden. She said that

1655
01:28:29,120 --> 01:28:30,680
Speaker 1: we didn't need a blank jack, but we need the

1656
01:28:30,680 --> 01:28:32,600
Speaker 1: support them. We need to win that war. It was

1657
01:28:32,600 --> 01:28:35,560
Speaker 1: a fight for freedom. I thought that that was interesting

1658
01:28:35,680 --> 01:28:39,400
Speaker 1: because part of the reason Haley is relevant is that

1659
01:28:39,400 --> 01:28:41,720
Speaker 1: there are people running for president. There are people one

1660
01:28:41,800 --> 01:28:44,280
Speaker 1: art president who don't have great donor access. She has

1661
01:28:44,360 --> 01:28:46,639
Speaker 1: terrific access to donor that she's built up for years,

1662
01:28:46,720 --> 01:28:49,800
Speaker 1: especially since leaving the UN in twenty nineteen. I mean

1663
01:28:50,080 --> 01:28:53,320
Speaker 1: Neuram Madleson as a fan like the conservative donor network

1664
01:28:53,400 --> 01:28:55,439
Speaker 1: that doesn't like Donald Trump and that maybe has a

1665
01:28:55,439 --> 01:28:58,200
Speaker 1: couple of questions about the answers of lictability, they love her,

1666
01:28:58,520 --> 01:29:00,439
Speaker 1: and so she's very in line with that sort of

1667
01:29:00,840 --> 01:29:04,000
Speaker 1: that that way of the Republican Party that the peace

1668
01:29:04,040 --> 01:29:09,519
Speaker 1: through strength but also occasionally were peace through proxy wars.

1669
01:29:09,920 --> 01:29:12,120
Speaker 1: That part of the party she's very comfortable with. And

1670
01:29:12,200 --> 01:29:15,400
Speaker 1: the rest of the issues. I'm not trying to about

1671
01:29:15,400 --> 01:29:18,120
Speaker 1: trying to diminish what she's running out just it's just

1672
01:29:18,200 --> 01:29:20,599
Speaker 1: when when you listen to it, there are candidates talking

1673
01:29:20,600 --> 01:29:24,000
Speaker 1: about specific ways to you know, example, cut the budgeter,

1674
01:29:24,120 --> 01:29:26,360
Speaker 1: get to a balanced budget, get to an episode she has.

1675
01:29:26,680 --> 01:29:30,760
Speaker 1: She talked a little bit about about how we need

1676
01:29:30,800 --> 01:29:33,320
Speaker 1: to end wasteful spending, but not what. And I try

1677
01:29:33,400 --> 01:29:35,480
Speaker 1: to list a lot of Republicans. You know, the stimulus

1678
01:29:35,600 --> 01:29:38,960
Speaker 1: bills happened under Trump, under Biden, it's very easy to

1679
01:29:39,000 --> 01:29:41,400
Speaker 1: say Washington's been spending too much. Well, I mean, we

1680
01:29:41,439 --> 01:29:44,759
Speaker 1: saw Washington spend a lot, but it's not tooking head anymore.

1681
01:29:44,760 --> 01:29:47,280
Speaker 1: We're not seeing more stimulus spending. Now. You didn't get

1682
01:29:47,360 --> 01:29:50,000
Speaker 1: very in the weeds about what it was going to do.

1683
01:29:50,520 --> 01:29:53,759
Speaker 1: It was. It really was a lot about changing the person.

1684
01:29:53,760 --> 01:29:55,600
Speaker 1: Reminds you of something that Obama said, and he was

1685
01:29:55,680 --> 01:29:58,719
Speaker 1: running in two thousand and eight. You know, he would

1686
01:29:58,720 --> 01:30:00,559
Speaker 1: ask he'd be asked, why is the world going to

1687
01:30:00,560 --> 01:30:03,000
Speaker 1: look at this differently if if you're her president? He said, well,

1688
01:30:03,040 --> 01:30:05,240
Speaker 1: I'm I represent the change you need to say look

1689
01:30:05,240 --> 01:30:06,880
Speaker 1: at me. But that's what he maan I'd be the

1690
01:30:06,920 --> 01:30:09,360
Speaker 1: first black president. A lot of this is I am

1691
01:30:09,400 --> 01:30:12,479
Speaker 1: I am a Generation X woman of color who would

1692
01:30:12,520 --> 01:30:16,080
Speaker 1: be president who wins every fight that she's in. So

1693
01:30:16,360 --> 01:30:18,439
Speaker 1: you just give me the ball and let me run

1694
01:30:18,479 --> 01:30:20,599
Speaker 1: with it. Trust me, it's a lot more of I

1695
01:30:20,680 --> 01:30:23,360
Speaker 1: have the character and the experience for the job. Less.

1696
01:30:23,400 --> 01:30:26,280
Speaker 1: I'm going to pick an issue and distinguish myself with

1697
01:30:26,280 --> 01:30:28,519
Speaker 1: the exception of Ukraine, where you know, she's not doing

1698
01:30:28,560 --> 01:30:30,560
Speaker 1: any of what Trump's doing and in saying that we

1699
01:30:31,080 --> 01:30:34,200
Speaker 1: should have peace negotiations right negotiations right now or anything

1700
01:30:34,200 --> 01:30:37,160
Speaker 1: like that. Yeah, I noted that on Ukraine in terms

1701
01:30:37,200 --> 01:30:39,960
Speaker 1: of a core difference. And the other issue that Trump

1702
01:30:40,040 --> 01:30:42,519
Speaker 1: seems to want to make central to the campaign is

1703
01:30:43,120 --> 01:30:45,720
Speaker 1: a defensive social security and who's on what side was that?

1704
01:30:46,280 --> 01:30:48,679
Speaker 1: And Haley has also come out and said she still

1705
01:30:48,720 --> 01:30:50,680
Speaker 1: believes we should take a look at entitlements. I mean

1706
01:30:51,080 --> 01:30:54,960
Speaker 1: basically every other Republication who don't have it yet. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

1707
01:30:56,040 --> 01:30:58,280
Speaker 1: You know that's always their line, Dave, That's always It

1708
01:30:58,360 --> 01:31:04,160
Speaker 1: still means cuts ultimately, and basically every Republican who Trump

1709
01:31:04,200 --> 01:31:07,280
Speaker 1: is going to be up against either is currently like

1710
01:31:07,360 --> 01:31:09,400
Speaker 1: Nicki Haley or like Mike Pence who still says like

1711
01:31:09,400 --> 01:31:12,559
Speaker 1: we should privatize it out on the record saying there

1712
01:31:12,600 --> 01:31:15,000
Speaker 1: should be cuts, or they have like Ronda Santis a

1713
01:31:15,000 --> 01:31:17,519
Speaker 1: long track record of backing, for example, Paul Ryan's plan

1714
01:31:17,600 --> 01:31:20,439
Speaker 1: on Medicare and other cuts to social security. Who are

1715
01:31:20,439 --> 01:31:22,679
Speaker 1: going to have to navigate where they stand on those

1716
01:31:22,720 --> 01:31:26,880
Speaker 1: issues today with Nicki Haley, I mean, it is funny because,

1717
01:31:26,880 --> 01:31:28,840
Speaker 1: like you said, a lot of what she's leaning into

1718
01:31:28,920 --> 01:31:31,880
Speaker 1: here is bio. It's like born in a small town

1719
01:31:32,040 --> 01:31:37,080
Speaker 1: and immigrant experience and her age. We can all debate

1720
01:31:37,080 --> 01:31:42,160
Speaker 1: whether she's quote unquote prime age, but let's not do that.

1721
01:31:42,160 --> 01:31:43,920
Speaker 1: That doesn't go well from shows with one guy on

1722
01:31:43,960 --> 01:31:49,640
Speaker 1: a panel. You're an independent media, You're good, Dave. But

1723
01:31:50,520 --> 01:31:53,519
Speaker 1: it is funny because conservatives do love their identity politics

1724
01:31:53,600 --> 01:31:56,360
Speaker 1: ultimately here as well, even as she insists like, oh,

1725
01:31:56,360 --> 01:31:59,040
Speaker 1: I hate identity politics, but here's ten pieces of my

1726
01:31:59,120 --> 01:32:02,439
Speaker 1: bio that are the reasons that you should vote for me. Yeah.

1727
01:32:02,439 --> 01:32:04,240
Speaker 1: I think I was circling that point. But that's how

1728
01:32:04,280 --> 01:32:06,559
Speaker 1: she starts every set of remarks, and she talks about

1729
01:32:06,760 --> 01:32:11,120
Speaker 1: a family that was neither black nor white, that you

1730
01:32:11,160 --> 01:32:13,120
Speaker 1: can't tell her this is a racist country. When she

1731
01:32:13,680 --> 01:32:16,560
Speaker 1: was elected to the first non white female governor of

1732
01:32:16,600 --> 01:32:18,840
Speaker 1: the state until in twenty ten. That's a big part

1733
01:32:18,840 --> 01:32:20,920
Speaker 1: of the appeal to and the Champian has actually done

1734
01:32:20,960 --> 01:32:22,840
Speaker 1: less than I thought it could have, because every time,

1735
01:32:23,080 --> 01:32:25,759
Speaker 1: every time a non white Republican gets ahead of steam,

1736
01:32:26,000 --> 01:32:30,200
Speaker 1: you start to see this panicky criticism from people liberals,

1737
01:32:30,240 --> 01:32:32,120
Speaker 1: i'd say more than on the left, that are just

1738
01:32:32,160 --> 01:32:34,840
Speaker 1: annoyed that she is saying conservative things. But she should

1739
01:32:34,840 --> 01:32:37,120
Speaker 1: be on our team. So you saw this. I think

1740
01:32:37,240 --> 01:32:39,960
Speaker 1: you saw, I think more less offensively from some of

1741
01:32:40,000 --> 01:32:43,320
Speaker 1: the AAAAPI groups that exist that are mostly democratic. You

1742
01:32:43,320 --> 01:32:45,400
Speaker 1: saw from pundits that have said silly things about her.

1743
01:32:46,280 --> 01:32:47,880
Speaker 1: She's not made that a huge part of her Kennon.

1744
01:32:47,920 --> 01:32:50,360
Speaker 1: She's definitely kind of dunked on people when she's had

1745
01:32:50,560 --> 01:32:53,720
Speaker 1: the chance to, but she's not. You made the point

1746
01:32:53,760 --> 01:32:57,760
Speaker 1: about social Security. Yeah, Pence has been stuck out much

1747
01:32:57,800 --> 01:32:59,960
Speaker 1: further on that issue than he has. He is actually

1748
01:33:00,120 --> 01:33:03,160
Speaker 1: talked specifically about going back to what he voted for

1749
01:33:03,200 --> 01:33:05,160
Speaker 1: as a congressman or reported because it didn't go to

1750
01:33:05,280 --> 01:33:09,360
Speaker 1: vote of the kind of Bush design private accounts, so

1751
01:33:09,840 --> 01:33:12,320
Speaker 1: reform of social Security. He's into that, but not gotten

1752
01:33:12,360 --> 01:33:15,040
Speaker 1: specific I honestly just as a not as a theater critic,

1753
01:33:15,080 --> 01:33:16,519
Speaker 1: as somebody who's covered this a lot, and that's just

1754
01:33:16,680 --> 01:33:19,719
Speaker 1: engaging performances. It makes sense for me at the moment

1755
01:33:19,760 --> 01:33:23,120
Speaker 1: because you have in polling in early states and nationally

1756
01:33:23,200 --> 01:33:25,479
Speaker 1: Donald Trump at forty percent or so, a little bit higher,

1757
01:33:25,479 --> 01:33:28,559
Speaker 1: a little bit lower. It is not bad to be

1758
01:33:28,640 --> 01:33:31,240
Speaker 1: the Republican who a lot of Republicans consider a strong

1759
01:33:31,280 --> 01:33:34,200
Speaker 1: second choice or a strong potential vice president. That hasn't

1760
01:33:34,200 --> 01:33:37,200
Speaker 1: happened yet. Via that conversation, but she's not saying anything

1761
01:33:37,240 --> 01:33:39,479
Speaker 1: that defends any fact to the party, with the exception

1762
01:33:39,840 --> 01:33:42,439
Speaker 1: of Ukraine stuff. Where she is I wouldn't say out

1763
01:33:42,439 --> 01:33:44,360
Speaker 1: on a limb. But if you look at the Pew

1764
01:33:44,400 --> 01:33:47,519
Speaker 1: pole and look at the nose AP sorry AP polling

1765
01:33:48,080 --> 01:33:50,840
Speaker 1: most recently that said, most Republicans just want to stop

1766
01:33:50,840 --> 01:33:53,080
Speaker 1: the funding. They don't want this. Apart from that, it

1767
01:33:53,160 --> 01:33:56,240
Speaker 1: is there is no faction the party that she's willing

1768
01:33:56,280 --> 01:33:59,280
Speaker 1: to offend. It's even one thing. My colleague Shelby taught

1769
01:33:59,320 --> 01:34:01,840
Speaker 1: that noticed and I noticed it, and I asked her

1770
01:34:01,840 --> 01:34:03,639
Speaker 1: in a double checks that pick. In Iowa, she never

1771
01:34:03,680 --> 01:34:06,920
Speaker 1: talks about the Confederate flag takedown in twenty fifteen. She

1772
01:34:07,000 --> 01:34:10,760
Speaker 1: talks very generally about the shooting at Mother Emmanuel Church.

1773
01:34:11,000 --> 01:34:12,960
Speaker 1: These are events. Had she run for president in twenty

1774
01:34:13,000 --> 01:34:16,240
Speaker 1: twenty or twenty sixteen that she decided to run off

1775
01:34:16,240 --> 01:34:18,320
Speaker 1: that those would have been I think much more central

1776
01:34:18,320 --> 01:34:21,000
Speaker 1: in the campaign. She doesn't talk about them now. I

1777
01:34:21,000 --> 01:34:23,160
Speaker 1: think she's still kind of finding about finding her way

1778
01:34:23,200 --> 01:34:27,160
Speaker 1: into how do we discuss race and gun violence and

1779
01:34:27,200 --> 01:34:29,719
Speaker 1: things that do not bring up this this moment where

1780
01:34:29,800 --> 01:34:33,519
Speaker 1: a lot of where some conservatives, I don't think most

1781
01:34:33,800 --> 01:34:36,320
Speaker 1: would say she did she buckle to the left wing pressure.

1782
01:34:36,520 --> 01:34:38,640
Speaker 1: She just hasn't. By the conversation, I was struck one

1783
01:34:38,720 --> 01:34:40,599
Speaker 1: she got a question to answer about the Second Amendment.

1784
01:34:41,240 --> 01:34:43,120
Speaker 1: I thought, you know, I'm not ready for speeches. For

1785
01:34:44,040 --> 01:34:46,640
Speaker 1: some politicians would have said, well, actually, as governor, I

1786
01:34:46,680 --> 01:34:50,080
Speaker 1: presided over this, this shooting that you heard about. Tim

1787
01:34:50,160 --> 01:34:52,160
Speaker 1: Kane doesn't like a lot of governors who have shooting

1788
01:34:52,160 --> 01:34:54,200
Speaker 1: in their backyard do this. He didn't mention it at all.

1789
01:34:54,320 --> 01:34:56,560
Speaker 1: He kind of talk went back generally to why she

1790
01:34:56,600 --> 01:34:58,800
Speaker 1: supports the Second Amendment. So it's interesting that probably the

1791
01:34:58,800 --> 01:35:01,360
Speaker 1: most famous thing about her before she started running for

1792
01:35:01,360 --> 01:35:03,840
Speaker 1: president not really part of the mix when she's she's

1793
01:35:03,880 --> 01:35:06,800
Speaker 1: giving speeches. And Dave, you also have a piece of

1794
01:35:06,960 --> 01:35:10,439
Speaker 1: about New Hampshire Governor Chris Sunu let's put that up

1795
01:35:10,439 --> 01:35:12,439
Speaker 1: on the screen. You say he could carry the moderate

1796
01:35:12,520 --> 01:35:16,120
Speaker 1: banner in twenty twenty four. First of all, this is

1797
01:35:16,160 --> 01:35:19,839
Speaker 1: a guy who's very popular in New Hampshire, and obviously

1798
01:35:19,840 --> 01:35:23,519
Speaker 1: New Hampshire is an important early state. I think he

1799
01:35:23,600 --> 01:35:27,760
Speaker 1: maybe doesn't have as much national name recognition. But ultimately,

1800
01:35:28,040 --> 01:35:30,479
Speaker 1: do you think that Not to ask this in like

1801
01:35:30,560 --> 01:35:32,519
Speaker 1: a mean way, but do you think that anybody in

1802
01:35:32,560 --> 01:35:35,320
Speaker 1: this race really matters other than Donald Trump and nikkiy Haley?

1803
01:35:37,280 --> 01:35:40,519
Speaker 1: I think Ran DeSantis will matter and everyone else, Sorry,

1804
01:35:40,560 --> 01:35:47,240
Speaker 1: I met Ron santas Donald chart of the question, because

1805
01:35:47,240 --> 01:35:50,400
Speaker 1: the only two running right now this matters. I think

1806
01:35:50,439 --> 01:35:52,960
Speaker 1: that the rest of the field at the moment, Like

1807
01:35:53,000 --> 01:35:54,519
Speaker 1: I was saying with Haley, it's good for her to

1808
01:35:54,560 --> 01:35:57,560
Speaker 1: be a popular second choice or Republican to go in

1809
01:35:57,600 --> 01:36:00,520
Speaker 1: the booth and say, well, Biden was this relied Democrats

1810
01:36:00,520 --> 01:36:03,479
Speaker 1: in twenty nineteen, Like, well, he's my second or third choice.

1811
01:36:03,479 --> 01:36:06,439
Speaker 1: But I like Obama. I like him, fine, whatever. I

1812
01:36:06,439 --> 01:36:09,639
Speaker 1: think no one else in the field has enough support

1813
01:36:09,760 --> 01:36:12,680
Speaker 1: from rank and file Republican voters to be relevant yet,

1814
01:36:12,680 --> 01:36:14,840
Speaker 1: and they are. If you look at quinip X pulling

1815
01:36:14,880 --> 01:36:16,800
Speaker 1: this week is pretty good. Illustration to this. You know,

1816
01:36:17,240 --> 01:36:20,639
Speaker 1: Trump leads DeSantis by six points. If you ask people

1817
01:36:20,720 --> 01:36:23,160
Speaker 1: about everyone who might run, it's two points. If you

1818
01:36:23,200 --> 01:36:27,600
Speaker 1: ask about just them and Haley, and everyone who's not

1819
01:36:27,640 --> 01:36:30,479
Speaker 1: a Trump voter in the Republican Party wants somebody else

1820
01:36:30,520 --> 01:36:33,000
Speaker 1: once may be DeSantis. That's also I was struck in

1821
01:36:33,040 --> 01:36:37,479
Speaker 1: that bowl. Moderates Mond Republicans prefer DeSantis, which tells you,

1822
01:36:37,520 --> 01:36:40,400
Speaker 1: I think they're the way we in the media kind

1823
01:36:40,400 --> 01:36:44,639
Speaker 1: of compromentalize people. It's usually accurate, but Desantras is getting

1824
01:36:44,800 --> 01:36:49,479
Speaker 1: momented by doing things that the party's I think hardest

1825
01:36:49,560 --> 01:36:52,519
Speaker 1: right faction wants to do, really taking on the left,

1826
01:36:52,560 --> 01:36:57,240
Speaker 1: Marxian institutions in academia, business, in the media, all of that.

1827
01:36:57,560 --> 01:36:59,599
Speaker 1: And but for moderate it's just, well, he's not Trump

1828
01:36:59,600 --> 01:37:01,519
Speaker 1: and he's not to do silly things and loses an election.

1829
01:37:01,880 --> 01:37:06,960
Speaker 1: I think, so, yeah, yeah, I'm not seeing what I

1830
01:37:06,960 --> 01:37:08,840
Speaker 1: saw on twenty nineteen, which was franked a lot of

1831
01:37:08,840 --> 01:37:11,639
Speaker 1: fun to cover, which is a lot of Democrats really

1832
01:37:11,680 --> 01:37:14,280
Speaker 1: thinking one the elector was a shoe in whoever whoever

1833
01:37:14,320 --> 01:37:16,559
Speaker 1: they nominated, which I mean, by the end they didn't

1834
01:37:16,600 --> 01:37:18,960
Speaker 1: think that, but the start of a campaign they thought,

1835
01:37:19,080 --> 01:37:22,200
Speaker 1: surely anyone can beat Trump. And they also had policy asks.

1836
01:37:22,240 --> 01:37:24,280
Speaker 1: They were, who are you going to take this stance

1837
01:37:24,320 --> 01:37:27,200
Speaker 1: on Medicare for all? Are you going to take the

1838
01:37:27,240 --> 01:37:30,120
Speaker 1: stands on jobs guarantee? That's not really happened in this

1839
01:37:30,240 --> 01:37:32,800
Speaker 1: race yet. And so Snunu, when I talked to him,

1840
01:37:33,200 --> 01:37:35,080
Speaker 1: he talked to a lot of people. He doesn't use

1841
01:37:35,120 --> 01:37:37,160
Speaker 1: the phrase monitor. He just thinks there's a different version

1842
01:37:37,200 --> 01:37:40,400
Speaker 1: of publican party that doesn't care about culture war stuff.

1843
01:37:41,160 --> 01:37:43,760
Speaker 1: I'm not trying to that's for him, him dismissing it

1844
01:37:43,800 --> 01:37:47,559
Speaker 1: than me. Uh, and that what people want is a

1845
01:37:47,600 --> 01:37:52,840
Speaker 1: competent government that's smaller, they cut spending, that's responsive to them,

1846
01:37:53,400 --> 01:37:56,280
Speaker 1: stay away from the fights with Disney, things like that.

1847
01:37:56,520 --> 01:37:59,360
Speaker 1: But not a huge difference in talking to him. I

1848
01:37:59,360 --> 01:38:02,080
Speaker 1: didn't imagine he to point radically different people to like

1849
01:38:02,160 --> 01:38:06,400
Speaker 1: the under secretaries of Education than Ron DeSantis would. I

1850
01:38:06,400 --> 01:38:11,000
Speaker 1: think he just he's less the not knock on Sunu,

1851
01:38:11,040 --> 01:38:13,160
Speaker 1: but kind of the rep so has is. He's just

1852
01:38:13,160 --> 01:38:16,320
Speaker 1: a naturally talented politician who doesn't get very deep into

1853
01:38:16,320 --> 01:38:19,719
Speaker 1: the details, doesn't try to dig in and have the party.

1854
01:38:20,000 --> 01:38:22,439
Speaker 1: He doesn't try dis mantle democratic power the way that

1855
01:38:22,520 --> 01:38:25,200
Speaker 1: DeSantis does. So if you're paying close attention to the

1856
01:38:25,280 --> 01:38:27,960
Speaker 1: Desantas model is working terrifically. I mean, it's it's probably

1857
01:38:28,000 --> 01:38:31,240
Speaker 1: the most progress the governor has made in undermining the

1858
01:38:31,240 --> 01:38:34,840
Speaker 1: opposition party since since Scott Walker. Probably more than that.

1859
01:38:35,040 --> 01:38:37,280
Speaker 1: That's not that the new way sow is just in

1860
01:38:37,320 --> 01:38:40,439
Speaker 1: a very George H. W. Bush way. I'm a confident

1861
01:38:40,520 --> 01:38:42,080
Speaker 1: guy who you can get along with, and I'd run

1862
01:38:42,120 --> 01:38:45,639
Speaker 1: the government officially unlike these these goofy Democrats. That's more

1863
01:38:45,640 --> 01:38:47,840
Speaker 1: than a policy difference. That has been the dispute inside

1864
01:38:47,880 --> 01:38:50,400
Speaker 1: the party. What we lose some voters if we come

1865
01:38:50,400 --> 01:38:52,040
Speaker 1: off as kind of mean and we're kind of obsessed

1866
01:38:52,080 --> 01:38:54,760
Speaker 1: with Fox News things. We all agree that we can

1867
01:38:54,840 --> 01:38:57,400
Speaker 1: just run as like Biden screwed things up. That's there's

1868
01:38:57,400 --> 01:39:02,400
Speaker 1: a lot more I think concord agreement inside this public conversation.

1869
01:39:02,640 --> 01:39:04,360
Speaker 1: Then you'd think from how many people are just trashing

1870
01:39:04,360 --> 01:39:07,400
Speaker 1: Trump whenever they get interesting? Yeah, I mean, to me,

1871
01:39:07,439 --> 01:39:10,000
Speaker 1: the biggest relevance for Sununu is the fact that he

1872
01:39:10,120 --> 01:39:13,000
Speaker 1: does have high popularity in New Hampshire, probably do well there,

1873
01:39:13,240 --> 01:39:15,599
Speaker 1: and you know if he does run in a primary,

1874
01:39:15,720 --> 01:39:18,080
Speaker 1: and that could serve as a block to someone like

1875
01:39:18,120 --> 01:39:20,880
Speaker 1: DeSantis or another Republican who's trying to gain some early

1876
01:39:20,960 --> 01:39:23,800
Speaker 1: momentum in some of those early states. Dave, great to

1877
01:39:23,800 --> 01:39:27,360
Speaker 1: have you, welcome and thank you so much. Congrats on

1878
01:39:27,400 --> 01:39:30,479
Speaker 1: the new job over at Semaphore. It's a lot of

1879
01:39:30,479 --> 01:39:34,439
Speaker 1: fun independent media. Let's go, let's do it. And thank

1880
01:39:34,439 --> 01:39:37,160
Speaker 1: you guys for watching. Thank you to the wonderful Emily

1881
01:39:37,280 --> 01:39:40,680
Speaker 1: for sitting in for soccer. Just a reminder, no counterpoints

1882
01:39:40,720 --> 01:39:43,120
Speaker 1: this week because Ryan is also out. Do you want

1883
01:39:43,120 --> 01:39:46,120
Speaker 1: to know where Ryan is viewers. He's in Mexico at

1884
01:39:46,160 --> 01:39:49,320
Speaker 1: a four day fish concert. I didn't even know I

1885
01:39:49,360 --> 01:39:54,479
Speaker 1: that's hilarious. Yeah, it's peak, it's peak, Ryan Grove. There's

1886
01:39:54,520 --> 01:39:57,200
Speaker 1: a lot of layers to this man. Anyway, Sacer will

1887
01:39:57,240 --> 01:39:59,280
Speaker 1: be back here on Thursday, at least that is the plan,

1888
01:39:59,360 --> 01:39:59,920
Speaker 1: so I will see you