1
00:00:00,320 --> 00:00:03,000
Speaker 1: Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve Camray.

2
00:00:03,240 --> 00:00:10,000
Speaker 1: It's ready. Are you welcome to stop? Mom never told you?

3
00:00:10,200 --> 00:00:18,080
Speaker 1: From housetop Works dot com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast.

4
00:00:18,120 --> 00:00:20,959
Speaker 1: This is Molly and I'm Kristen, and today christ and

5
00:00:20,960 --> 00:00:23,520
Speaker 1: I are going to discuss what if feminist looks like?

6
00:00:24,040 --> 00:00:26,159
Speaker 1: This has been UM sort of a hard topic to

7
00:00:26,200 --> 00:00:30,800
Speaker 1: research because we can't find an answer right as we

8
00:00:30,800 --> 00:00:35,320
Speaker 1: will discuss at length, um the definition of feminism is

9
00:00:35,960 --> 00:00:41,920
Speaker 1: far ranging from positive to really negative. UM and Molly.

10
00:00:41,960 --> 00:00:46,280
Speaker 1: When when we started talking about talking about and researching feminism,

11
00:00:46,280 --> 00:00:49,639
Speaker 1: the first thing that I thought about was um Um,

12
00:00:49,720 --> 00:00:54,800
Speaker 1: a publication geared towards women that's circulated throughout the Southeast,

13
00:00:54,920 --> 00:00:56,800
Speaker 1: and I would pick it up every now and then

14
00:00:56,800 --> 00:00:59,960
Speaker 1: because it was free. And at the end of every

15
00:01:00,320 --> 00:01:04,280
Speaker 1: magazine they had this section, just one page that said

16
00:01:04,920 --> 00:01:07,280
Speaker 1: I'm not a feminist, but dot dot dot, and each

17
00:01:07,360 --> 00:01:09,880
Speaker 1: one would have, you know, some kind of sassy quote

18
00:01:09,920 --> 00:01:12,880
Speaker 1: like I'm not a feminist, but I think men should

19
00:01:12,920 --> 00:01:17,880
Speaker 1: do more grocery shopping. And it always kind of irked

20
00:01:17,920 --> 00:01:20,479
Speaker 1: me a little bit because I didn't understand why there

21
00:01:20,560 --> 00:01:24,600
Speaker 1: was a need to to say well, I'm not a feminist,

22
00:01:24,640 --> 00:01:27,600
Speaker 1: but some kind of statement about gender equality, like why

23
00:01:27,720 --> 00:01:30,360
Speaker 1: is it such a why is it such a bad label?

24
00:01:30,360 --> 00:01:32,080
Speaker 1: Why should we be scared of it? I know it's

25
00:01:32,280 --> 00:01:33,720
Speaker 1: That was really what struck out to me, And this

26
00:01:33,800 --> 00:01:36,200
Speaker 1: research was that, you know, no one is willing to

27
00:01:36,200 --> 00:01:38,959
Speaker 1: call themselves a feminist almost. It seems like that today,

28
00:01:39,040 --> 00:01:43,039
Speaker 1: especially among women, younger women of our generation, maybe in

29
00:01:43,120 --> 00:01:48,240
Speaker 1: their teens, early mid twenties. Yeah, I mean we think

30
00:01:48,280 --> 00:01:50,680
Speaker 1: about old school feminists, someone like I mean, I don't

31
00:01:50,680 --> 00:01:52,760
Speaker 1: want to say she's old school, but like Clarie Steinum

32
00:01:53,240 --> 00:01:55,280
Speaker 1: in a good way, in a good way, very associated

33
00:01:55,320 --> 00:01:58,760
Speaker 1: with sort of the historic feminist movement. She says that

34
00:01:58,800 --> 00:02:01,320
Speaker 1: a feminist is anyone who coognizes the equality and full

35
00:02:01,400 --> 00:02:04,080
Speaker 1: humanity of women and men. That's a nice definition. I mean,

36
00:02:04,240 --> 00:02:06,360
Speaker 1: that shouldn't be a problem, I think, for anyone to

37
00:02:06,400 --> 00:02:10,960
Speaker 1: apply to themselves. But then I was reading up on

38
00:02:11,000 --> 00:02:16,640
Speaker 1: another lustrous figure also associated with empowering women, uh, Jerry

39
00:02:16,639 --> 00:02:19,880
Speaker 1: halliwell of spice girl Face, spice girls. Not remember the

40
00:02:19,880 --> 00:02:22,520
Speaker 1: Spice Girls were all about girl power. So that's sort

41
00:02:22,560 --> 00:02:25,760
Speaker 1: of a way of you know, motivating girls to get

42
00:02:25,760 --> 00:02:29,079
Speaker 1: equal with men, right, When Jerry Holliwell was asked by

43
00:02:29,240 --> 00:02:32,040
Speaker 1: a British publication if she was a feminist, she said

44
00:02:32,080 --> 00:02:36,360
Speaker 1: she associated feminism with broad burning lesbianism. She thought it

45
00:02:36,400 --> 00:02:39,560
Speaker 1: was very unglamorous, it didn't celebrate anything feminine, and she

46
00:02:39,600 --> 00:02:44,800
Speaker 1: thought it was really sort of demoralizing and emasculating towards men. Yikes.

47
00:02:44,840 --> 00:02:46,640
Speaker 1: So I think that shows sort of um. I mean,

48
00:02:46,639 --> 00:02:49,360
Speaker 1: I don't want to draw direct lines between Gloria's Steinum

49
00:02:49,400 --> 00:02:53,120
Speaker 1: and Jerry Halliwell, but you know, it's definitely a generational

50
00:02:53,160 --> 00:02:55,359
Speaker 1: shift on whether feminist is a good term or that

51
00:02:55,560 --> 00:02:58,240
Speaker 1: term right, And I think that those two definitions really

52
00:02:58,280 --> 00:03:01,520
Speaker 1: show like the two ends of the spectrum. So to

53
00:03:01,560 --> 00:03:04,120
Speaker 1: pull it back into the middle a little bit, because

54
00:03:04,120 --> 00:03:06,120
Speaker 1: the discussion that Molly and I are having today isn't

55
00:03:06,160 --> 00:03:08,880
Speaker 1: meant to convince anyone of feminism or that they should

56
00:03:08,960 --> 00:03:11,320
Speaker 1: start calling themselves a feminist, but rather to talk about

57
00:03:11,680 --> 00:03:15,960
Speaker 1: really what it is in today's world. So only the

58
00:03:16,000 --> 00:03:19,280
Speaker 1: most neutral definition of feminists I could find was in

59
00:03:19,720 --> 00:03:23,799
Speaker 1: Webster's Dictionary, And according to Old Webster, feminism is the

60
00:03:23,800 --> 00:03:27,120
Speaker 1: theory of the political, economic, and social equality of the

61
00:03:27,160 --> 00:03:31,919
Speaker 1: sexes and organized activity on behalf of women's rights and interest.

62
00:03:32,280 --> 00:03:34,280
Speaker 1: It's a little closer to the Steinham definition, but I

63
00:03:34,320 --> 00:03:35,640
Speaker 1: think that that's really I mean, you can't get more

64
00:03:35,720 --> 00:03:39,480
Speaker 1: nutral than Webster, right, So there you go. But still,

65
00:03:39,560 --> 00:03:42,080
Speaker 1: why won't women apply to themselves today? Do you think

66
00:03:42,120 --> 00:03:45,240
Speaker 1: that just women today don't like labels? I think that

67
00:03:45,560 --> 00:03:47,640
Speaker 1: you and I are in our in our mid twenties,

68
00:03:47,720 --> 00:03:49,560
Speaker 1: and I don't know if you'd agree with this or not,

69
00:03:49,600 --> 00:03:52,520
Speaker 1: but I would say that that our generation maybe shies

70
00:03:52,560 --> 00:03:57,080
Speaker 1: away from using labels more than maybe older people do.

71
00:03:57,480 --> 00:03:59,960
Speaker 1: There's a survey in the book the F Word Feminist

72
00:04:00,200 --> 00:04:06,080
Speaker 1: in Jeopardy that asked three hundred uh self selected college

73
00:04:06,160 --> 00:04:10,040
Speaker 1: educated women whether or not they they liked the term feminism,

74
00:04:10,280 --> 00:04:12,880
Speaker 1: and six eight percent of them did not want to

75
00:04:12,880 --> 00:04:15,400
Speaker 1: be confined by labels first of all, and found that

76
00:04:15,440 --> 00:04:21,440
Speaker 1: the word feminism really chafed them the most. So maybe

77
00:04:21,440 --> 00:04:24,320
Speaker 1: it's because of the political and social baggage that it has.

78
00:04:24,560 --> 00:04:26,920
Speaker 1: It's possible, you know, I was reading in the article

79
00:04:26,960 --> 00:04:29,919
Speaker 1: that you wrote how Feminism works that because something like

80
00:04:30,000 --> 00:04:34,200
Speaker 1: feminism is associated with abortion rights, for example, that sort

81
00:04:34,200 --> 00:04:37,080
Speaker 1: of scares away people who women who might be more

82
00:04:37,080 --> 00:04:40,440
Speaker 1: conservative about social issues like that. But still believe in equality, right.

83
00:04:40,680 --> 00:04:44,720
Speaker 1: I think. A perfect example of the politics surrounding feminism

84
00:04:45,160 --> 00:04:50,400
Speaker 1: was the controversy around Sarah Palin, Alaska governor, calling herself

85
00:04:50,600 --> 00:04:54,400
Speaker 1: a feminist in an interview with Katie Kuric. First, Kirk

86
00:04:54,440 --> 00:04:56,560
Speaker 1: asked you whether or not she would consider herself a

87
00:04:56,600 --> 00:05:00,680
Speaker 1: feminist and mother five governor when back to work, what

88
00:05:00,760 --> 00:05:05,239
Speaker 1: two weeks after having her youngest child, called herself a feminist? Okay,

89
00:05:05,520 --> 00:05:09,520
Speaker 1: at the same time, she is anti abortion, anti sex education,

90
00:05:10,040 --> 00:05:13,880
Speaker 1: doesn't meet all of those, if you will, political qualifications

91
00:05:13,920 --> 00:05:16,400
Speaker 1: usually ascribed a feminism, right. And then in a later

92
00:05:16,440 --> 00:05:19,279
Speaker 1: interview she totally recanted and said she wasn't a feminist.

93
00:05:19,320 --> 00:05:21,400
Speaker 1: I think because maybe you know, she got that sort

94
00:05:21,440 --> 00:05:24,080
Speaker 1: of kicked back that you know, from both sides, how

95
00:05:24,120 --> 00:05:27,000
Speaker 1: can you be a feminist? From both Republicans and Democrats

96
00:05:27,000 --> 00:05:29,680
Speaker 1: are probably saying that to her. But at the same time,

97
00:05:29,800 --> 00:05:32,799
Speaker 1: we had Barack Obama on the cover of Miss magazine

98
00:05:32,839 --> 00:05:34,960
Speaker 1: saying he had a T shirt on he was staying

99
00:05:34,960 --> 00:05:37,520
Speaker 1: like Superman. He said, this is what a feminist looks like.

100
00:05:38,000 --> 00:05:40,520
Speaker 1: And this T shirt has become pretty famous the this

101
00:05:40,560 --> 00:05:42,800
Speaker 1: is what a feminist looks like t shirt? Right, Molly.

102
00:05:42,839 --> 00:05:44,760
Speaker 1: The this is what a Feminist looks like t shirt

103
00:05:44,839 --> 00:05:49,800
Speaker 1: were first developed by the feminist majority that publishes Miss magazine,

104
00:05:50,200 --> 00:05:54,840
Speaker 1: and they put out a video of men and women

105
00:05:55,200 --> 00:05:57,680
Speaker 1: talking about, you know what feminism is, and this is

106
00:05:57,680 --> 00:06:00,000
Speaker 1: what a feminist looks like, and its women of all

107
00:06:00,040 --> 00:06:06,680
Speaker 1: different races, sizes, men, and I think the funniest one

108
00:06:06,920 --> 00:06:09,880
Speaker 1: was a man who said that his wife called him

109
00:06:09,880 --> 00:06:11,919
Speaker 1: a feminist and he said that he had to he

110
00:06:11,960 --> 00:06:13,640
Speaker 1: had to go look it up first because he wasn't

111
00:06:13,640 --> 00:06:16,160
Speaker 1: exactly sure exactly what she meant. Yeah, And this video

112
00:06:16,240 --> 00:06:19,159
Speaker 1: got somewhat criticized because can you have people using the

113
00:06:19,240 --> 00:06:20,800
Speaker 1: term that don't know what it means? Can you have

114
00:06:20,880 --> 00:06:23,360
Speaker 1: people who just um, put feminism on like a T

115
00:06:23,480 --> 00:06:25,920
Speaker 1: shirt and are all happy about it, but do they

116
00:06:25,920 --> 00:06:29,159
Speaker 1: actually live out what it means? Um. It was sort

117
00:06:29,160 --> 00:06:32,240
Speaker 1: of a glamour shot I think for a feminism and

118
00:06:32,279 --> 00:06:35,040
Speaker 1: having all these celebrities talk about how, you know, they

119
00:06:35,080 --> 00:06:37,960
Speaker 1: shaved their legs and were short skirts, but they're still feminists, right,

120
00:06:38,000 --> 00:06:41,960
Speaker 1: They have good sex, they're attractive, like, don't be scared, girls,

121
00:06:42,480 --> 00:06:44,240
Speaker 1: it's all for you. People will still like you if

122
00:06:44,240 --> 00:06:46,640
Speaker 1: you're a feminist, and men too, like like Kristen brought

123
00:06:46,680 --> 00:06:48,080
Speaker 1: up this guy who didn't even know what it means,

124
00:06:48,160 --> 00:06:51,360
Speaker 1: but that Barack Obama cover had a lot of controversy

125
00:06:51,360 --> 00:06:54,120
Speaker 1: around it. Can you have a man um who has

126
00:06:54,160 --> 00:06:57,400
Speaker 1: sort of innate privilege in this society be a feminist

127
00:06:57,920 --> 00:07:00,400
Speaker 1: and I don't think that. I think you'd be hard oppressed.

128
00:07:00,440 --> 00:07:03,520
Speaker 1: Define many feminist who would say that absolutely not men

129
00:07:03,600 --> 00:07:07,440
Speaker 1: cannot believe in the theory of feminism and gender equality,

130
00:07:07,480 --> 00:07:10,800
Speaker 1: but some some just don't like for men to be

131
00:07:10,840 --> 00:07:13,920
Speaker 1: able to share that label. There are some groups that

132
00:07:14,160 --> 00:07:17,880
Speaker 1: simply refer to men who ascribe to feminist theory as

133
00:07:18,000 --> 00:07:22,400
Speaker 1: pro feminists rather than feminists, sort of reserving that label

134
00:07:22,440 --> 00:07:26,200
Speaker 1: for women specifically. Right, So let's consider of the women

135
00:07:26,240 --> 00:07:29,480
Speaker 1: who use it today, what would second wave feminists think

136
00:07:29,480 --> 00:07:31,600
Speaker 1: of them? When we think about sort of traditional feminists,

137
00:07:31,960 --> 00:07:35,160
Speaker 1: what would they think of our feminist choices today. I

138
00:07:35,160 --> 00:07:38,960
Speaker 1: think that there's been a big debate about, uh, whether

139
00:07:39,040 --> 00:07:42,040
Speaker 1: or not feminism is still alive and well today, because

140
00:07:42,200 --> 00:07:45,640
Speaker 1: it looks a lot different from the feminism of the

141
00:07:45,680 --> 00:07:48,680
Speaker 1: sixties and seventies. Were still fighting for a lot of

142
00:07:48,720 --> 00:07:53,600
Speaker 1: the same things, such as workplace equality and protection from

143
00:07:53,800 --> 00:07:57,920
Speaker 1: violence against women. And reproductive rights, but we may be

144
00:07:58,000 --> 00:08:00,680
Speaker 1: going about it in a different way. A couple of

145
00:08:00,720 --> 00:08:04,080
Speaker 1: examples of what younger feminists today are doing that I

146
00:08:04,120 --> 00:08:06,280
Speaker 1: can think of, just off the top of my head, UH,

147
00:08:06,440 --> 00:08:09,040
Speaker 1: would be the Take Back the Night events that happened

148
00:08:09,320 --> 00:08:13,960
Speaker 1: on campuses college campuses all over the country, and the

149
00:08:14,000 --> 00:08:18,600
Speaker 1: March Woman's Lives. And the thing is, feminism today might

150
00:08:18,600 --> 00:08:20,960
Speaker 1: look different from what was going on in the sixties

151
00:08:20,960 --> 00:08:22,679
Speaker 1: and seventies, but I think a lot of what girls

152
00:08:22,680 --> 00:08:28,040
Speaker 1: today are doing are really working to protect what second

153
00:08:28,040 --> 00:08:31,240
Speaker 1: wave feminists one for us. I think you're right, Kristen,

154
00:08:31,240 --> 00:08:34,000
Speaker 1: and I think that even choices that might seem to

155
00:08:34,080 --> 00:08:37,560
Speaker 1: be counterintuitive to the things that those women one for

156
00:08:37,640 --> 00:08:40,480
Speaker 1: us are still part of the feminist movement. Um. As

157
00:08:40,520 --> 00:08:43,120
Speaker 1: an example, you know, more and more women are stay

158
00:08:43,160 --> 00:08:47,880
Speaker 1: at home moms, and this might seem contradictory to what, uh,

159
00:08:47,960 --> 00:08:50,559
Speaker 1: someone like Laura Steinham and Betty for Dan were trying

160
00:08:50,600 --> 00:08:53,199
Speaker 1: to achieve, but the fact that they have the choice

161
00:08:53,240 --> 00:08:55,440
Speaker 1: to do that is still at the center of the

162
00:08:55,480 --> 00:08:59,440
Speaker 1: feminist movement right exactly. And I think that when we're

163
00:08:59,480 --> 00:09:03,240
Speaker 1: talking about what if feminist looks like, can you answer

164
00:09:03,320 --> 00:09:06,840
Speaker 1: it exactly? No? But I think that the thing you

165
00:09:06,880 --> 00:09:09,200
Speaker 1: have to keep in mind is at the center of

166
00:09:09,200 --> 00:09:14,200
Speaker 1: feminism and its broad range of definitions, positive, negative, whatever,

167
00:09:14,280 --> 00:09:17,560
Speaker 1: it all boils down to choice, right, and so it

168
00:09:17,600 --> 00:09:20,600
Speaker 1: was never um a proscriptive movement. It was never like

169
00:09:20,679 --> 00:09:22,720
Speaker 1: you must go to work and you must you know,

170
00:09:22,920 --> 00:09:25,559
Speaker 1: not shave your legs. But it's become associate with that.

171
00:09:25,600 --> 00:09:27,880
Speaker 1: But the fact that it was about choice means that

172
00:09:28,160 --> 00:09:29,880
Speaker 1: you basically have the choice to look into the mirror

173
00:09:29,880 --> 00:09:31,599
Speaker 1: and say, this is what a feminist looks like. A

174
00:09:31,679 --> 00:09:34,160
Speaker 1: feminist can, of course, like you said, shave her legs,

175
00:09:34,160 --> 00:09:37,400
Speaker 1: wear high heels, wear pink dress, whatever she wants to do,

176
00:09:37,640 --> 00:09:40,000
Speaker 1: whether that's at home or in the workplace, because that's

177
00:09:40,040 --> 00:09:45,680
Speaker 1: what the first feminist one for us exactly. So al right, well,

178
00:09:45,679 --> 00:09:48,439
Speaker 1: I think we slve that mystery, Kristen. If you want

179
00:09:48,480 --> 00:09:52,199
Speaker 1: to learn more about feminism and its history, you can

180
00:09:52,280 --> 00:09:55,880
Speaker 1: read How Feminists Works by well by me actually Larry

181
00:09:56,080 --> 00:09:58,640
Speaker 1: Kristin on how stuff Works dot com. And if you

182
00:09:58,720 --> 00:10:02,040
Speaker 1: have any questions our comments for me and Molly, you

183
00:10:02,080 --> 00:10:05,280
Speaker 1: can email us at mom stuff at how stuff works

184
00:10:05,360 --> 00:10:11,719
Speaker 1: dot com for moralness and thousands of other topics. Is

185
00:10:11,720 --> 00:10:18,760
Speaker 1: it how stuff works dot com, brought to you by

186
00:10:18,760 --> 00:10:22,199
Speaker 1: the reinvented two thousand twelve camera. It's ready, are you