Speaker 1: One of the most recognized names and faces in the
Speaker 1: world today is Kim Kardashian. She has more than three
Speaker 1: hundred and sixty five million Instagram followers. I don't have
Speaker 1: any Instagram followers. Recently, she decided to get into my business,
Speaker 1: the private equity business, and it's starting a private equity
Speaker 1: fund with one of my former partners, Jay Sammons. I
Speaker 1: had a chance at a private equity conference in Berlin
Speaker 1: to interview both Jay and Kim about their private equity fund,
Speaker 1: and I also had a chance to interview Kim Kardashian
Speaker 1: alone before the conference began. I've often said that private
Speaker 1: equity is the highest calling of mankind. Why did it
Speaker 1: take you so long to realize that and that to
Speaker 1: join the private equity world.
Speaker 2: I finally got talked into it once I came to
Speaker 2: that realization. I have had a long standing relationship with Jay,
Speaker 2: who came from the Carlisle Group, and I was pretty
Speaker 2: close to doing a few deals with Jay when he
Speaker 2: was at.
Speaker 3: The car Allowed Groups.
Speaker 2: So for about ten years we had conversations, whether it
Speaker 2: was through something we were going to do or people
Speaker 2: close to us we're going to do. And I was
Speaker 2: privy to all of those conversations, so we finally, you know,
Speaker 2: had the conversation that we.
Speaker 3: Should really get into business together.
Speaker 4: Okay.
Speaker 3: It's been a fascinating process.
Speaker 1: So the name of your firm is Sky Partners. Sky
Speaker 1: is usually spelled sky yours is s KK. Why how
Speaker 1: did you come up with that name?
Speaker 3: You know, we had to have a little bit of influence.
Speaker 2: I thought, you know, Jay Salmons, I thought that the
Speaker 2: S for Salmon's and KK Kim Kardashian.
Speaker 1: Okay, it worked out.
Speaker 3: It worked out.
Speaker 1: So you've now been exposed to the private ecuy world
Speaker 1: for a little bit of time. You've met the investors
Speaker 1: here and around the world, so forth, what is your
Speaker 1: review of the private equity investment community? The most honest
Speaker 1: people you ever.
Speaker 2: Met, very very nice people. I actually have been introduced
Speaker 2: to the world a lot of my friends growing up
Speaker 2: they are in this space now. So I'm on a
Speaker 2: group chat where I'm being asked all the time about
Speaker 2: different companies and businesses, mostly tech that they invest in
Speaker 2: if they're really good companies. And I've even gotten on
Speaker 2: you know, zooms with all of the founders to hear
Speaker 2: their pitches on their businesses. As if I work with
Speaker 2: them already, so I felt like it would be a
Speaker 2: really good next step to do it together.
Speaker 1: So Jay, how did you two of you first meet
Speaker 1: and how did you get in the private equity and
Speaker 1: why did you specialize in consumer? Well?
Speaker 4: I started, first of all, David, thanks for having us
Speaker 4: and for being here with us. I started my investing
Speaker 4: career about twenty three years ago, and I had the
Speaker 4: privilege of spending almost the last seventy years working for you.
Speaker 4: As you know, I actually did not start investing in
Speaker 4: consumer businesses until I started at Carlisle, but obviously, you know,
Speaker 4: spend the entirety of my time at Carlisle doing that.
Speaker 4: In particular, I spent all of my time trying to
Speaker 4: back great, disruptive, high growth consumer brands, and I have
Speaker 4: a passion for that. I believe it's the best place
Speaker 4: to invest in consumer and the experiences that I had
Speaker 4: at Carlisle, as I said, are putting us in a
Speaker 4: position to build something really special here.
Speaker 1: Sky. So you also have a clothing company which is
Speaker 1: called a Skims, right, and you have a skin care
Speaker 1: beauty products company called skin Skin by Kim Kim. Okay,
Speaker 1: all right, all right, did you need a lot of
Speaker 1: help coming up with that name. Probably not. Yeah, Okay,
Speaker 1: so that's two businesses is pretty big. Those are big businesses.
Speaker 1: Why did you think you had the time you have
Speaker 1: four children to do another business in the private equity world,
Speaker 1: how much time do you really have for something like this?
Speaker 2: I feel like in life you have to do things
Speaker 2: that challenge you and help you grow and evolve.
Speaker 3: And this is a.
Speaker 2: Space that after spending a lot of time with Jay
Speaker 2: and with the knowledge that I've learned starting businesses, taking
Speaker 2: investments from firms and people that I've learned so much about,
Speaker 2: and having great relationships, and also being on the other
Speaker 2: side seeing relationships not work out if you don't partner
Speaker 2: with the right investment person and team. And I really
Speaker 2: felt like we could set ourselves apart by me really
Speaker 2: being that person that has been the founder, that believes
Speaker 2: in the founder, that wants to really help that company
Speaker 2: grow and thrive and really support them because I've been
Speaker 2: there and seen relationships work and not work. And it
Speaker 2: was just something that I was really interested in that
Speaker 2: I was willing to cut back on other things.
Speaker 1: Okay, And so when you ask people to do meetings,
Speaker 1: do they say no? Or is it that hard to
Speaker 1: get a meeting or probably with investors, or not that hard.
Speaker 4: So the answer is no, and I'm grateful for that.
Speaker 4: And it's largely because, you know, I believe that what
Speaker 4: KEM and I are building is unlike anything else that's
Speaker 4: being built in this space, and it's a very intentional
Speaker 4: combination of two really complementary skill sets that other firms
Speaker 4: don't have.
Speaker 1: So, say, right now, the private ecuy world's tough to
Speaker 1: get financing for deals and so forth, So are you
Speaker 1: going to be doing buyouts which require financing or are
Speaker 1: you going to do growth capital deals which presumably don't
Speaker 1: need as much financing or any.
Speaker 4: Yeah, our strategy is actually really consistent again with what
Speaker 4: I've done in the which was very unreliant on leverage.
Speaker 4: In the consumer growth world, it's about great asset selection
Speaker 4: and great execution on value creation plans. It's not about
Speaker 4: the marginal amount of leverage that will drive a few
Speaker 4: basis points of incremental returns. So in some instances, when
Speaker 4: the companies can support it, we'll use a little bit,
Speaker 4: but in most instances we won't. It's all about just
Speaker 4: getting behind the right ideas.
Speaker 1: Okay, so when a deal comes along, how do you
Speaker 1: have an investment committee. I presume you're on the investment committee,
Speaker 1: and so is it a one person veto If you
Speaker 1: don't like the deal, it's not going to get done,
Speaker 1: Or if you don't like the deal, it's not going
Speaker 1: to get done. How does that work?
Speaker 2: Well, so far, we haven't really run into that issue.
Speaker 2: We both, I think, respect each other's opinion and trust
Speaker 2: each other. I think culturally we have the same vision
Speaker 2: of what brands we think can grow and that we
Speaker 2: can really help make an impact. But we also both
Speaker 2: really believe that our team being included in these decisions
Speaker 2: is really important and we want everyone on our team
Speaker 2: to have a voice.
Speaker 1: What is it that you're most looking forward to about
Speaker 1: private equity? Is it coming to conferences like this? Is
Speaker 1: that what you're most looking forward to?
Speaker 2: Absolutely, I'm honestly most looking forward to my relationships with
Speaker 2: the founders. I'm really fascinated to hear their backstory. I'm
Speaker 2: a storyteller. I'm so excited just to have the opportunity
Speaker 2: to help them win, and I love hearing people's stories
Speaker 2: and hearing what their magic sauces behind their company and
Speaker 2: why they wanted to start the company that they did
Speaker 2: and what their vision is and just hope that I
Speaker 2: can help that.
Speaker 1: So you can be called one of the first influencers,
Speaker 1: or maybe the first of the influencers. Did you know
Speaker 1: what an influencer was really going to lead to when
Speaker 1: you first became a quote influencer?
Speaker 3: No, I really didn't.
Speaker 2: I knew that social media was really interesting in a
Speaker 2: way where I personally, when I got on used it
Speaker 2: as like a free focus group when I had questions
Speaker 2: about I mean, I was launching my first product ever,
Speaker 2: which was a Fragrance, and I needed opinions, and I
Speaker 2: went to Twitter. I remember Twitter was like the first
Speaker 2: real platform besides MySpace, which at that time, an influencer
Speaker 2: wasn't even in the mindset.
Speaker 3: Same with Twitter.
Speaker 2: Really for a while, it was more of, I think,
Speaker 2: a way to communicate with a fan base.
Speaker 3: But I did use it.
Speaker 2: As like a free focus group that I thought was fascinating,
Speaker 2: and I felt like the customer became more invested in
Speaker 2: the Fragrance that I was launching because they felt like
Speaker 2: they were a part of it, and I just thought
Speaker 2: that was really interesting. And I didn't quite at that
Speaker 2: time though, realize what a tool social media would be
Speaker 2: for business.
Speaker 1: Now you've built several businesses. Is when you were building them,
Speaker 1: people would say, well, she can't really build a fragrance business,
Speaker 1: or she can't really build a clothing business because she
Speaker 1: doesn't have a background on that. But they turn out
Speaker 1: to be extremely successful. So did people not thinking you
Speaker 1: could do it urge you to make it even more successful?
Speaker 1: Or were you nervous that maybe they were right and
Speaker 1: you couldn't build those businesses? Or how did you feel
Speaker 1: about when you were building these businesses from scratch.
Speaker 2: I definitely always took the doubt as motivation. I always
Speaker 2: felt like, and still do always feel a bit insecure
Speaker 2: about it, confident in the brand. I love creating a
Speaker 2: brand and launching a brand and the whole process of it.
Speaker 2: I always have those I think healthy nerves when you're
Speaker 2: launching something, especially on a launch day or a product
Speaker 2: launch day. But I've always felt a little bit. I've
Speaker 2: always felt a doubt, and I've always just taken that
Speaker 2: as motivation to have me focus more and work harder
Speaker 2: and felt like I had more to prove.
Speaker 1: So nobody can build a business or run a business
Speaker 1: by themselves, so you have to hire people and get
Speaker 1: people around you from time to time for your businesses.
Speaker 1: How do you select who you're going to hire? And
Speaker 1: do you ever have to fire anybody and say well
Speaker 1: you're good but not quite good enough.
Speaker 2: Yes, I have a great team and a small team,
Speaker 2: and the fires. Firing's really difficult for me, so I
Speaker 2: always have someone else do it. It's really really hard
Speaker 2: for me unless it's someone that works in my household
Speaker 2: and I have a personal relationship with them. Obviously I
Speaker 2: would give them their respect to do that. But I
Speaker 2: have a small team. When I started my beauty business,
Speaker 2: when we started Skims, my business, everything that I do
Speaker 2: starts with a really selective in house team, even from
Speaker 2: my business manager. Everyone is just someone that I've taken
Speaker 2: a lot of time to.
Speaker 3: Get to know. I trust.
Speaker 2: And a good community relationship within my office and within
Speaker 2: my house staff everywhere is the most important thing.
Speaker 1: And you test all the products yourself, in other words,
Speaker 1: if it's a beauty product or something you always.
Speaker 2: Tested, oh everything, Yes, yes, I'm so hands on. I'm
Speaker 2: so involved. I mean to this day for Skims, I'm
Speaker 2: still our fit model, which we have like a group
Speaker 2: of fit models, and I'll know the collection that I
Speaker 2: didn't fit for I'm very specific on how things fit
Speaker 2: and make. I pick the fabrics that come up with
Speaker 2: all of the marketing. So with Skims and my beauty brand, Skin,
Speaker 2: I do every last thing from packaging design to helping
Speaker 2: with the fonts and the you know, every campaign, every photographer,
Speaker 2: We pick every formula of every product. I mean, I
Speaker 2: have to be involved one hundred percent.
Speaker 1: So many people would say in one family, you probably
Speaker 1: can't have too many talented business people in your family.
Speaker 1: You seem to have a lot of talented business people.
Speaker 1: So is there a competition between you and your sisters
Speaker 1: or you're so friendly there's no competition.
Speaker 2: You know, even like Kylie and I are both in
Speaker 2: the beauty business and we don't compete. We feel like
Speaker 2: we have two totally different brands and two totally different demographics.
Speaker 2: So I would say we don't really compete in that way.
Speaker 2: If anything, we would motivate each other. And even we
Speaker 2: work on everything really privately and don't really communicate with
Speaker 2: each other about, you know, what we're launching and what
Speaker 2: our campaigns look like. I mean, if we're really excited
Speaker 2: about something, we'll share the process. But it's really rare
Speaker 2: that we do that now, and we don't really.
Speaker 3: Compete like that.
Speaker 2: I think we all just really focus and do our
Speaker 2: own thing.
Speaker 1: So your mother has been involved with your career as well,
Speaker 1: and your mother is involved, I guess with your sister's
Speaker 1: careers as well. So is she a superstar business manager
Speaker 1: or impresario or how did she manage to keep all
Speaker 1: of the children happy and have them each have their
Speaker 1: own career and owned businesses and still be so close
Speaker 1: to them.
Speaker 2: She's definitely the smartest woman I know, and it really
Speaker 2: started for she was a housewife when she was married
Speaker 2: to my dad and she raised the four of us.
Speaker 2: And then when she married my stepdad, she became his
Speaker 2: agent and manager and got her agent license and figured
Speaker 2: it out and really helped that, and then it bled
Speaker 2: into wanting to help her children when the time was
Speaker 2: right and when our career started.
Speaker 3: So I ask her all.
Speaker 2: The time how she manages six kids and we all
Speaker 2: have very similar lives. But I find it really interesting
Speaker 2: that a lot of people call her to want to
Speaker 2: get her to be their manager, and she just like
Speaker 2: her heart is with her children, So I think it's
Speaker 2: a different kind of love and motivation. But she completely
Speaker 2: has helped us all figure it out. We come to
Speaker 2: her for every ounce of advice, and she's really been
Speaker 2: so great managing all of us. But she's also really
Speaker 2: good at being the best mom. And even maybe a
Speaker 2: manager would push for one decision, she'll push for a
Speaker 2: mom decision first.
Speaker 1: So you were very close to your father, who passed
Speaker 1: away a very young age of cancer. He was a lawyer,
Speaker 1: well known lawyer. Did that motivate you to want to
Speaker 1: go and become a lawyer yourself?
Speaker 3: Absolutely?
Speaker 2: I mean I think just seeing him every day he
Speaker 2: would get up, be on his way to work, drop
Speaker 2: us off at school, see him, you know, go to work,
Speaker 2: come home for dinner, like we just I saw how
Speaker 2: hard he worked, and I saw just his work ethic
Speaker 2: that really drove me, and especially his law studies I
Speaker 2: think really inspired me.
Speaker 3: We talked about it.
Speaker 2: I mean, he passed away when I was twenty two,
Speaker 2: so it was I was in college, and we talked
Speaker 2: about my path in college and he was really realistic
Speaker 2: with me. I did not like school, and he said,
Speaker 2: you know, I just don't think that this. I don't
Speaker 2: think you want to do this full time. I really
Speaker 2: want you to think about this, but if you stay
Speaker 2: in school, I will, you know, help with your apartment,
Speaker 2: And it was like a trade off that he would help,
Speaker 2: and I just wanted to be independent and I wanted
Speaker 2: to not go down that journey at that time. But
Speaker 2: I do think that he would. I think he'd absolutely
Speaker 2: be proud of me. But I think he would get
Speaker 2: a kick out of the fact that I'm doing it
Speaker 2: now and he'd be the best study buddy with me
Speaker 2: and help me study.
Speaker 1: Now, to be a lawyer in California, you don't have
Speaker 1: to go to law school. You can read the law,
Speaker 1: which is what people used to do many years ago.
Speaker 1: Abraham Lincoln never went to law school, and he did
Speaker 1: okay as a lawyer. So you're reading the law, and
Speaker 1: you've passed one of the bar exams, and you're going
Speaker 1: to take another one at some point in time, is
Speaker 1: that right? Yeah?
Speaker 2: I think in about two years I take the next one.
Speaker 2: So you need two bars in order to pass to
Speaker 2: become a lawyer. So I think now, since I've passed
Speaker 2: the first one, I could practice under someone, but to
Speaker 2: be a lawyer on my own, I have to pass
Speaker 2: the second bar. So I'm constitutional law is kicking my
Speaker 2: butt right now, and that's what I'm that's what I'm
Speaker 2: studying currently, and it's you know, it's extremely time consuming,
Speaker 2: but so worth it.
Speaker 1: So as you've become so well known, I think you
Speaker 1: have more Twitter followers than probably almost anybody in the world.
Speaker 1: Twitter followers, Instagram followers. You have something like three hundred
Speaker 1: and fifty million Instagram followers. Is that the right number, something.
Speaker 2: Like that, three fifty nine, three hundred and fifty nine million.
Speaker 1: I have zero. I have no Instagram followers. I'm afraid
Speaker 1: to be on Instagram because I wouldn't have any followers.
Speaker 1: But you have three hundred and fifty nine million. So
Speaker 1: when you go to a restaurant or you go out
Speaker 1: in the public anywhere, can you ever be not bothered
Speaker 1: by people who want to take your picture, want a selfie,
Speaker 1: want an autograph? How do you deal with all that?
Speaker 2: I think you know, depending where you go, you really
Speaker 2: have to know where to go, and you definitely can
Speaker 2: get away with that sometimes, but you also have to
Speaker 2: understand when you're going out in public. That's just kind
Speaker 2: of I guess what comes along with the territory. I
Speaker 2: love to travel the world. If I go to Japan,
Speaker 2: you know, no one will ask their culture is very different.
Speaker 2: Different places all over the world just have different i
Speaker 2: think beliefs and cultures where it's just not as important
Speaker 2: for them to ask for photos. So it's fun to
Speaker 2: travel and get away sometimes from that. But I also
Speaker 2: know that that kind of comes along with the territory
Speaker 2: as well.
Speaker 1: And how do you convince your children that not every
Speaker 1: mother is as famous as you? Because they see people
Speaker 1: coming calling you, you're very well known. How do you
Speaker 1: convince your children and then not every mother is that
Speaker 1: way and therefore they have to live a life maybe
Speaker 1: a little bit different than the one you're living.
Speaker 2: Well, I think that they really do understand that every
Speaker 2: family is different. I mean even within my sisters, you know,
Speaker 2: other sisters have different rules, snacks that they can eat,
Speaker 2: snacks we can eat, shows they can want, you know,
Speaker 2: So we do talk about different families and different rules
Speaker 2: all the time.
Speaker 3: I think that they grew up.
Speaker 2: Seeing a lot and you know, whether we're they were
Speaker 2: at their dad's you know, big events or at filming
Speaker 2: you know, with me and seeing stuff. I think they
Speaker 2: just have known, and we've been really open and honest
Speaker 2: with them about our lives and how big it is
Speaker 2: and how different it is. And let's be positive and
Speaker 2: think of all of like the good, positive things and
Speaker 2: just try to give them amazing experiences. But they are
Speaker 2: also so normal and well grounded that I'm so happy
Speaker 2: that they have a group of cousins that can all relate,
Speaker 2: and that we all live in the same gated community
Speaker 2: and they ride bikes to each other's houses and scooters,
Speaker 2: and I mean, it's they're the most normal, well adjusted kids,
Speaker 2: and it just makes me so happy. And as a mom,
Speaker 2: you just feel like you're doing something right when your
Speaker 2: kids are happy.
Speaker 1: When you were growing up and you were a little
Speaker 1: girl at the age of your children, could everybody pronounce
Speaker 1: the name Kardashian then, because now it's a well known name.
Speaker 1: But I imagine people have said pronounce it incorrectly then
Speaker 1: and you correct them or were you? Was everybody pronouncing
Speaker 1: it correctly then? No?
Speaker 2: I remember then. I would laugh with my dad about
Speaker 2: this during the oj trial, when reporters would always say
Speaker 2: his name, they would always get it wrong and say
Speaker 2: different versions of it. And my dad told me a
Speaker 2: story that when the Armenians came over to America, they
Speaker 2: usually took off the iaan off their last name, so
Speaker 2: anyone with Ia and they're Armenian, and so you know,
Speaker 2: our last name would be like kardash you know. And
Speaker 2: he just would always say, just never take the ia
Speaker 2: in off your last name, like it's okay if they
Speaker 2: mispronounce it. We would laugh all the time that no
Speaker 2: one can get our last name. And now it seems
Speaker 2: really simple.
Speaker 1: Well, you and your mother and your sisters and your
Speaker 1: whole family became famous initially, I think with the TV
Speaker 1: show called Keeping Up with the Kardashians. Is that what
Speaker 1: it was? Yes, So when you were first approached about that,
Speaker 1: did you roll your eyes and say I don't want
Speaker 1: to do a reality TV show? Or you say, no,
Speaker 1: this is going to be great. We're going to be
Speaker 1: famous because of this, Or how did you get the
Speaker 1: idea or who came to you with the idea and
Speaker 1: did all of you want to do it unanimously or
Speaker 1: did all of you say maybe not?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Well, when I remember so vividly being at my best
Speaker 2: friend's house nineteen eighty nine, So I was nine years
Speaker 2: old and the show The Real World launched, and I
Speaker 2: looked at my best friend and I said, that's it.
Speaker 2: I have to be on a reality show. And she
Speaker 2: said I go, that's what I want to do when
Speaker 2: I grow up, and she said, okay, well when we're eighteen,
Speaker 2: we'll make an audition tape for the Real World. And
Speaker 2: she goes, I don't want to be on, but I'll
Speaker 2: be your manager. And her dad's a manager and we
Speaker 2: laugh now at our conversation then. And the show came
Speaker 2: about because Kathy Lee Gifford is one of my mom's
Speaker 2: closest friends, and when she'd come in town and stay
Speaker 2: with us, she would just laugh and say, you guys
Speaker 2: are a reality show. What you guys are talking about,
Speaker 2: fighting about, how you guys live your life.
Speaker 3: This has to be a reality show.
Speaker 2: And we called Ryan Seacrest, got connected to him, met
Speaker 2: with the E Network, and our show was on the air.
Speaker 2: We started filming a week later. I think we were
Speaker 2: a filler show for a show that fell out of
Speaker 2: production and they needed something quickly, and we just started filming.
Speaker 2: We thought we'd be on for maybe a season or two,
Speaker 2: and we did twenty seasons of Keeping Up with the Kardashians,
Speaker 2: ten spinoffs, and now we're in filming season five four
Speaker 2: of the Kardashians, which is basically the same thing, just
Speaker 2: on a streaming on Hulu.
Speaker 1: When I was nine years old, I wanted to be
Speaker 1: a major League baseball player. That didn't work out for me,
Speaker 1: but usually when you want something at nine, it doesn't
Speaker 1: usually work out. But I guess it worked out for
Speaker 1: you and your sisters.
Speaker 3: I was determined.
Speaker 2: They didn't want, they didn't care, and they didn't want
Speaker 2: to do it. But I talked them into it by
Speaker 2: saying that we had a clothing store and I said,
Speaker 2: you guys, this would be the best promotion for our
Speaker 2: clothing store. We should really consider this, and that got
Speaker 2: them hooked.
Speaker 1: Worked out, it did. Thanks for listening to hear more
Speaker 1: of my interviews. You can subscribe and download my podcast
Speaker 1: on Spotify, Apple, or wherever you listen.