1 00:00:27,800 --> 00:00:31,520 Speaker 1: Take a deep breath in through your nose. 2 00:00:33,640 --> 00:00:34,159 Speaker 2: Holds it. 3 00:00:36,760 --> 00:00:47,800 Speaker 1: Now, release slowly again, deep in, helle. 4 00:00:50,960 --> 00:01:05,440 Speaker 3: Hold release, repeating internally to yourself as you connect to 5 00:01:05,480 --> 00:01:19,320 Speaker 3: my voice. I am deeply well. I am deeply well. 6 00:01:22,160 --> 00:01:33,080 Speaker 3: I am deeply I'm Debbie Brown. And this is the 7 00:01:33,160 --> 00:01:43,240 Speaker 3: Deeply Well Podcast. Welcome to Deeply Well, a soft place 8 00:01:43,280 --> 00:01:46,200 Speaker 3: to land on your journey. A podcast for those that 9 00:01:46,280 --> 00:01:50,880 Speaker 3: are curious, creative, and ready to expand in higher consciousness 10 00:01:51,080 --> 00:01:54,680 Speaker 3: and self care. This is where we heal, this is 11 00:01:54,680 --> 00:01:58,520 Speaker 3: where we transcend. Welcome back to the show. I am 12 00:01:58,600 --> 00:02:03,480 Speaker 3: so grateful you're here. I'm Debbie Brown. Today's conversation really 13 00:02:03,560 --> 00:02:08,320 Speaker 3: takes us into the heart of the sacred feminine. 14 00:02:08,760 --> 00:02:10,240 Speaker 4: We are going to be exploring. 15 00:02:09,840 --> 00:02:13,200 Speaker 3: The deeper truths that live within us all. And I 16 00:02:13,240 --> 00:02:18,399 Speaker 3: am joined by a world renowned author that really has 17 00:02:18,560 --> 00:02:22,760 Speaker 3: just in such a pioneering way, led the charged around 18 00:02:22,760 --> 00:02:29,320 Speaker 3: sacred femininity and embodiment. Today's guest is Megan Waterson, a 19 00:02:29,400 --> 00:02:33,360 Speaker 3: renowned feminist theologian and the Wall Street Journal best selling 20 00:02:33,400 --> 00:02:37,400 Speaker 3: author of Mary Magdalene. Revealed she has a Master of 21 00:02:37,440 --> 00:02:41,200 Speaker 3: Theological Studies from Harvard Divinity School and a Master of 22 00:02:41,240 --> 00:02:46,840 Speaker 3: Divinity from Union Theological Seminary at Columbia University. She created 23 00:02:46,880 --> 00:02:50,359 Speaker 3: the House of Mary Magdalen, a spiritual community that studies 24 00:02:50,440 --> 00:02:55,119 Speaker 3: sacred texts left out of the traditional canon. Her work 25 00:02:55,160 --> 00:02:58,280 Speaker 3: has appeared in media outlets such as The New York Times, 26 00:02:58,720 --> 00:03:04,040 Speaker 3: The Huntington Post, tedex Women, and Marie Claire. This past summer, 27 00:03:04,200 --> 00:03:08,959 Speaker 3: she just released her latest book, The Girl Who Baptized 28 00:03:09,040 --> 00:03:13,520 Speaker 3: Herself How a lost scripture about a saint named Thekla 29 00:03:14,000 --> 00:03:18,240 Speaker 3: reveals the power of knowing our worth? And I want 30 00:03:18,240 --> 00:03:20,240 Speaker 3: to give you a little bit more about this book 31 00:03:20,280 --> 00:03:23,680 Speaker 3: before I fully bring Megan in. This book is the 32 00:03:23,840 --> 00:03:28,760 Speaker 3: riveting exploration of a nearly lost first century scripture that 33 00:03:28,880 --> 00:03:32,560 Speaker 3: tells the story of a courageous saint named Thekla and 34 00:03:32,720 --> 00:03:36,440 Speaker 3: offers us a road map to knowing our worth. A 35 00:03:36,480 --> 00:03:39,480 Speaker 3: teenage girl named Thekla is sitting at her bedroom window 36 00:03:39,840 --> 00:03:43,840 Speaker 3: listening to a man share stories nearby. Her mother and 37 00:03:43,920 --> 00:03:47,480 Speaker 3: fiance order her to stop, but Thekla, trapped in a 38 00:03:47,560 --> 00:03:52,240 Speaker 3: world that expects her to marry and have children, refuses. 39 00:03:53,040 --> 00:03:55,800 Speaker 3: This man, Paul is talking about a world she wants 40 00:03:55,840 --> 00:03:58,880 Speaker 3: to believe in, an inner world of freedom to define 41 00:03:58,920 --> 00:04:01,920 Speaker 3: her own life, and he's talking about a kind of 42 00:04:02,040 --> 00:04:05,760 Speaker 3: love she hasn't known before, a love that asks her 43 00:04:05,760 --> 00:04:09,720 Speaker 3: to be true to who she is within. For Megan Waterson, 44 00:04:09,840 --> 00:04:14,160 Speaker 3: a Harvard Train feminist theologian, Thekla's story in the Acts 45 00:04:14,200 --> 00:04:17,400 Speaker 3: of Paul and Thekla has everything to do with power. 46 00:04:17,920 --> 00:04:21,040 Speaker 3: Theckler's refusal to be controlled, as well as the authority 47 00:04:21,120 --> 00:04:25,480 Speaker 3: she reclaims by baptizing herself reads like a lost gospel 48 00:04:25,560 --> 00:04:28,960 Speaker 3: for finding our own source of power within, a power 49 00:04:28,960 --> 00:04:31,159 Speaker 3: that allows us to know who we are and to 50 00:04:31,200 --> 00:04:35,320 Speaker 3: make choices based on that knowing. This hidden scripture suggests 51 00:04:35,400 --> 00:04:40,360 Speaker 3: that Christianity before the fourth century was about deifying the patriarchy, 52 00:04:40,560 --> 00:04:44,400 Speaker 3: not defying it, but early Church fathers excluded the Acts 53 00:04:44,440 --> 00:04:47,279 Speaker 3: of Paul and Thekla, along with other sacred texts such 54 00:04:47,320 --> 00:04:51,360 Speaker 3: as the Gospel of Mary from the New Testament. Waterson 55 00:04:51,839 --> 00:04:57,080 Speaker 3: synthesizes scripture, memoir, and politics to illuminate a story that 56 00:04:57,120 --> 00:04:59,760 Speaker 3: has been left out of the cannon for far too long, 57 00:05:00,279 --> 00:05:03,080 Speaker 3: one that follows a girl freeing herself from a life 58 00:05:03,160 --> 00:05:07,000 Speaker 3: predicated on the expectations of others, a path that made 59 00:05:07,000 --> 00:05:11,039 Speaker 3: her feel unworthy. Decklo's story offers us a path to 60 00:05:11,120 --> 00:05:14,400 Speaker 3: take back the power we often give to others and 61 00:05:14,560 --> 00:05:18,920 Speaker 3: live based on the truth of who we are. 62 00:05:19,600 --> 00:05:23,159 Speaker 4: Wow, welcome to the show, Megan, love you. 63 00:05:23,640 --> 00:05:25,320 Speaker 2: I'm so grateful to be here with you. 64 00:05:26,000 --> 00:05:28,800 Speaker 4: I'm so excited to have you. I am such a fan. 65 00:05:28,760 --> 00:05:33,240 Speaker 3: Of your work and the way that you have I mean, 66 00:05:33,640 --> 00:05:36,080 Speaker 3: just like brought. 67 00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:37,440 Speaker 2: These ancient. 68 00:05:38,520 --> 00:05:39,839 Speaker 4: Faith filled. 69 00:05:41,320 --> 00:05:43,280 Speaker 3: I don't even know how to describe it, Like it 70 00:05:43,320 --> 00:05:46,039 Speaker 3: is a new feminine archetype. 71 00:05:46,040 --> 00:05:46,960 Speaker 2: It is a new. 72 00:05:46,839 --> 00:05:50,760 Speaker 3: Way that is actually the old way of being feminine 73 00:05:51,040 --> 00:05:56,039 Speaker 3: back into the world. I mean, wow, Like, how do 74 00:05:56,160 --> 00:05:59,839 Speaker 3: you feel with this as your mission? 75 00:06:01,760 --> 00:06:06,279 Speaker 2: I do feel very fortunate that it has always been 76 00:06:06,400 --> 00:06:10,520 Speaker 2: loud in me and clear that this is the work 77 00:06:10,880 --> 00:06:16,680 Speaker 2: that I'm meant to do. I think what became clear 78 00:06:16,680 --> 00:06:21,200 Speaker 2: to me, especially early on, is that anger and rage 79 00:06:21,839 --> 00:06:26,760 Speaker 2: were really important information for me. It was like a 80 00:06:26,800 --> 00:06:30,839 Speaker 2: red flag in a good way, like a bull, you know. 81 00:06:31,000 --> 00:06:34,640 Speaker 2: I understood, for example, when I first went to church 82 00:06:34,680 --> 00:06:37,720 Speaker 2: as a little girl, and I broke out in hives 83 00:06:37,800 --> 00:06:40,400 Speaker 2: when I read the New Testament for the first time, 84 00:06:40,560 --> 00:06:45,080 Speaker 2: because I was sensing the missing stories, you know, the 85 00:06:45,120 --> 00:06:48,080 Speaker 2: stories that I would eventually find years and years later 86 00:06:48,160 --> 00:06:51,880 Speaker 2: in Divinity school. But I sensed that they were missing, 87 00:06:52,000 --> 00:06:55,320 Speaker 2: and the idea that God is the Father and the 88 00:06:55,320 --> 00:06:59,200 Speaker 2: Father only, and that this male God then somehow gave 89 00:06:59,320 --> 00:07:04,680 Speaker 2: this holy creed for an exclusively male succession of divine 90 00:07:04,720 --> 00:07:07,600 Speaker 2: authority going all the way back to Christ. I just 91 00:07:08,440 --> 00:07:12,320 Speaker 2: in my little girl body, I felt that this was 92 00:07:12,360 --> 00:07:15,720 Speaker 2: not true. And the rage at that time came up, 93 00:07:15,760 --> 00:07:19,000 Speaker 2: as you know, the hives breaking out in hives, and 94 00:07:20,680 --> 00:07:24,680 Speaker 2: I had to leave. You know, my body really led me. 95 00:07:24,880 --> 00:07:28,680 Speaker 2: And every time that flare up would happen again, that 96 00:07:28,840 --> 00:07:35,000 Speaker 2: sense of rage, rage as information, rage as galvanizing me 97 00:07:35,320 --> 00:07:38,200 Speaker 2: and showing me the right direction, I would listen to 98 00:07:38,280 --> 00:07:42,240 Speaker 2: it because it flared up again when I was in 99 00:07:42,320 --> 00:07:47,080 Speaker 2: college and there was, you know, this very angry man 100 00:07:47,280 --> 00:07:49,600 Speaker 2: wearing a billboard, you know, on both sides. It was 101 00:07:49,600 --> 00:07:55,720 Speaker 2: like sandwiched between two billboards with quotes that he felt 102 00:07:56,360 --> 00:08:00,320 Speaker 2: justified his homophobia, you know, and he was screaming about 103 00:08:01,160 --> 00:08:03,520 Speaker 2: that we're all going to hell, and you know that 104 00:08:04,160 --> 00:08:08,320 Speaker 2: same sex is sinful and all of those you know, 105 00:08:08,920 --> 00:08:13,680 Speaker 2: ideas that he felt justified because of the scripture that 106 00:08:13,840 --> 00:08:16,680 Speaker 2: was all around him. And again, as I was nearing 107 00:08:16,760 --> 00:08:20,720 Speaker 2: him as a teenager in my late teens in college, 108 00:08:21,880 --> 00:08:26,800 Speaker 2: I felt that same sense of knowing that this is 109 00:08:26,960 --> 00:08:30,880 Speaker 2: not love to me, this is not God. I just 110 00:08:32,480 --> 00:08:36,760 Speaker 2: didn't yet have the scripture that justified my faith of 111 00:08:36,840 --> 00:08:40,600 Speaker 2: knowing that this is not the truth, this is not 112 00:08:40,679 --> 00:08:43,199 Speaker 2: the story that I know that my body somehow that 113 00:08:43,280 --> 00:08:48,320 Speaker 2: my heart knows. So it led me again. And the 114 00:08:48,400 --> 00:08:53,280 Speaker 2: other time that I felt that knowing so loudly was 115 00:08:54,720 --> 00:09:00,600 Speaker 2: volunteering on a Navajo reservation, working with children, and the 116 00:09:01,640 --> 00:09:07,719 Speaker 2: Christian missionaries who were housing me to be on the reservation, 117 00:09:08,840 --> 00:09:12,560 Speaker 2: they you know, would slide these pamphlets underneath my door. 118 00:09:12,640 --> 00:09:15,680 Speaker 2: It's not funny, but but like I you know, I 119 00:09:15,679 --> 00:09:17,440 Speaker 2: didn't know what else to do with it, but to 120 00:09:18,679 --> 00:09:20,960 Speaker 2: there were those pamphlets that like you know, have the 121 00:09:21,000 --> 00:09:24,520 Speaker 2: woman in the flames, you know, screaming out yeah. Like 122 00:09:25,200 --> 00:09:30,640 Speaker 2: because they believed that unless I believed in the Christ 123 00:09:30,880 --> 00:09:33,319 Speaker 2: that they believed in, I was going to burn in hell. 124 00:09:33,720 --> 00:09:37,120 Speaker 2: You know that that I had to announce Christ as 125 00:09:37,160 --> 00:09:40,439 Speaker 2: my savior in the very sort of you know, fundamental 126 00:09:40,559 --> 00:09:43,520 Speaker 2: Christian way or I was going to go to help. 127 00:09:43,559 --> 00:09:49,440 Speaker 2: And I kept explaining that that I did sense Christ, 128 00:09:49,480 --> 00:09:54,040 Speaker 2: I did love Christ, but that I know that that's 129 00:09:54,120 --> 00:09:57,880 Speaker 2: not true, Like I know that that's I'm not afraid 130 00:09:57,960 --> 00:10:01,640 Speaker 2: of that in the way that they were, and for me, 131 00:10:02,480 --> 00:10:11,599 Speaker 2: their presence there on the reservation was so incredibly troubling 132 00:10:12,679 --> 00:10:17,959 Speaker 2: given the history of the genocide and the boarding schools, 133 00:10:17,960 --> 00:10:22,319 Speaker 2: the Christian boarding schools, which you know just only now 134 00:10:22,440 --> 00:10:27,959 Speaker 2: is really coming to more mass consciousness of that erasure 135 00:10:28,040 --> 00:10:33,280 Speaker 2: of a whole culture and the way that Christianity played 136 00:10:33,280 --> 00:10:40,080 Speaker 2: a pivotal role in that genocide. And so this is 137 00:10:40,120 --> 00:10:43,360 Speaker 2: what I was confronting them about. You know that this 138 00:10:43,520 --> 00:10:47,400 Speaker 2: is not I don't believe in a christ that would 139 00:10:47,400 --> 00:10:50,600 Speaker 2: have wanted this, that would believe that. And so again 140 00:10:50,679 --> 00:10:56,679 Speaker 2: it was that sacred rage, that honest indignation. That's how 141 00:10:56,679 --> 00:10:59,600 Speaker 2: William Blake refers to it. The voice, the voice of 142 00:10:59,640 --> 00:11:02,440 Speaker 2: honest indignation is the voice of God. You know. It's 143 00:11:02,520 --> 00:11:08,320 Speaker 2: that sense that when you know or recognize love, you 144 00:11:08,520 --> 00:11:11,839 Speaker 2: have to speak on behalf of it. And so in 145 00:11:11,880 --> 00:11:15,680 Speaker 2: those three moments that really stand out for me in 146 00:11:15,720 --> 00:11:19,600 Speaker 2: my life, it's that there was some sort of knowing, 147 00:11:19,720 --> 00:11:23,920 Speaker 2: but it was physical, you know, it was a part 148 00:11:23,960 --> 00:11:27,679 Speaker 2: of what it meant to be embodied that I recognized it, 149 00:11:27,920 --> 00:11:32,360 Speaker 2: which is really the opposite direction of what we're taught 150 00:11:32,720 --> 00:11:37,800 Speaker 2: in more traditional ideas of being spiritual. It's that you 151 00:11:37,880 --> 00:11:42,720 Speaker 2: want to transcend the body, deny the body, silence the body, 152 00:11:43,440 --> 00:11:47,240 Speaker 2: and listen to the soul. For me, the soul only 153 00:11:47,280 --> 00:11:50,880 Speaker 2: became audible once I was fully embodied, So it was 154 00:11:50,920 --> 00:11:54,200 Speaker 2: the opposite direction, and that was the voice that was 155 00:11:54,240 --> 00:11:58,360 Speaker 2: guiding me. Mmmmm wow. 156 00:11:58,720 --> 00:12:02,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, things that I mean, there are just so many 157 00:12:02,160 --> 00:12:05,600 Speaker 3: points and things that I want to dive in. 158 00:12:05,520 --> 00:12:07,839 Speaker 4: And say about this that is so powerful. 159 00:12:08,360 --> 00:12:08,560 Speaker 2: You know. 160 00:12:08,640 --> 00:12:10,319 Speaker 3: First, one of the things I just kind of want 161 00:12:10,320 --> 00:12:13,280 Speaker 3: to anchor is like it's always been fascinating to me 162 00:12:13,360 --> 00:12:17,280 Speaker 3: that when you study Christianity across history, it's actually. 163 00:12:16,880 --> 00:12:18,520 Speaker 4: Like so incredibly violent. 164 00:12:19,760 --> 00:12:24,439 Speaker 3: Like that is like it goes like fundamentally against what 165 00:12:24,600 --> 00:12:28,160 Speaker 3: the core kind of archetype, yes, what it means to 166 00:12:28,320 --> 00:12:29,760 Speaker 3: be a Christian right. 167 00:12:30,400 --> 00:12:35,320 Speaker 2: Right, And that confused me profoundly as a child and 168 00:12:35,360 --> 00:12:39,440 Speaker 2: then a young adult because what was I sensing inside 169 00:12:39,520 --> 00:12:44,280 Speaker 2: me about Christ that felt the exact opposite to anything 170 00:12:44,640 --> 00:12:47,560 Speaker 2: of that. And so then when I got to seminary finally, 171 00:12:47,640 --> 00:12:50,840 Speaker 2: it took me a long time to get to actually 172 00:12:52,040 --> 00:12:55,360 Speaker 2: studying Christianity because I felt like I had been so 173 00:12:55,640 --> 00:13:00,600 Speaker 2: burned by it and then it literally set me on fire. 174 00:13:01,200 --> 00:13:05,600 Speaker 2: I first studied, like everything else, you know, the divine feminine, 175 00:13:05,679 --> 00:13:08,679 Speaker 2: all the world religions, because it was almost like I 176 00:13:08,720 --> 00:13:12,400 Speaker 2: had to sort of buffer myself or prepare myself for 177 00:13:12,600 --> 00:13:17,200 Speaker 2: figuring out, Okay, how and why was the feminine or 178 00:13:17,520 --> 00:13:22,200 Speaker 2: the divine feminine, the female saints within Christianity, why were 179 00:13:22,200 --> 00:13:25,400 Speaker 2: they so erased as well? But I sort of buffered 180 00:13:25,400 --> 00:13:30,240 Speaker 2: myself leading up to it. But the history blew me 181 00:13:30,280 --> 00:13:33,640 Speaker 2: away when I got to seminary what I found that out, 182 00:13:33,840 --> 00:13:36,559 Speaker 2: which is what everybody can know. I mean, this isn't 183 00:13:36,600 --> 00:13:44,400 Speaker 2: like hidden information. The Christianity that existed before the fourth century, 184 00:13:44,679 --> 00:13:51,959 Speaker 2: right before Constantine converted it into the empire's religion, was 185 00:13:52,120 --> 00:14:00,280 Speaker 2: a radical movement that was defying the patriarchy. It was 186 00:14:00,320 --> 00:14:05,400 Speaker 2: defying the emperor exactly what it was, standing up right 187 00:14:05,600 --> 00:14:10,400 Speaker 2: against the systems of unjust power in the world around them, 188 00:14:10,679 --> 00:14:16,480 Speaker 2: like as Christ showed them. And after the fourth century, 189 00:14:16,840 --> 00:14:22,680 Speaker 2: Christianity became patriarchal and it became the Empire's religion. So 190 00:14:22,840 --> 00:14:27,920 Speaker 2: this is when and where it became. It really became 191 00:14:29,040 --> 00:14:37,200 Speaker 2: a tradition that was justifying the power of the elite 192 00:14:37,480 --> 00:14:43,840 Speaker 2: through this institution of God. So then those who held 193 00:14:43,880 --> 00:14:48,560 Speaker 2: the most amount of power were given it to them 194 00:14:48,640 --> 00:14:49,880 Speaker 2: by divine decree. 195 00:14:50,200 --> 00:14:54,920 Speaker 3: Wow. Wow wow, and it's like we gosh, do we 196 00:14:55,000 --> 00:14:57,800 Speaker 3: still see that? You know? The way its WEAPONI is 197 00:14:57,920 --> 00:15:03,600 Speaker 3: and absolutely the way it's used for patriotism and patriarchy, absolutely, 198 00:15:03,920 --> 00:15:08,560 Speaker 3: but it's really in some areas and some people really 199 00:15:09,280 --> 00:15:14,440 Speaker 3: hurting people, you know. So this past weekend I was 200 00:15:14,480 --> 00:15:18,520 Speaker 3: in New Jersey for the Mental Wealth Expo, which is 201 00:15:18,560 --> 00:15:21,240 Speaker 3: this really incredible thing that my brother Charlotte Mane the 202 00:15:21,280 --> 00:15:24,280 Speaker 3: God puts on every year. It was our fourth annual 203 00:15:24,280 --> 00:15:26,640 Speaker 3: and it's all about mental health and it's all about 204 00:15:27,280 --> 00:15:31,280 Speaker 3: connecting people with services and also just having really kind 205 00:15:31,320 --> 00:15:36,400 Speaker 3: of consciousness expanding conversations and the community about mental health 206 00:15:36,400 --> 00:15:38,960 Speaker 3: and mental illness and the things that affect us. And 207 00:15:39,000 --> 00:15:43,040 Speaker 3: so this year I created a panel that I hosted 208 00:15:43,640 --> 00:15:47,600 Speaker 3: and we had my dear friend, doctor Teddy Reeves and 209 00:15:47,720 --> 00:15:50,800 Speaker 3: who works at the Smithsonian African American Museum and he's 210 00:15:50,840 --> 00:15:56,120 Speaker 3: a theologian and also former pastor Carl Lentz. It was 211 00:15:56,200 --> 00:16:02,400 Speaker 3: a phenomenal conversation. The panel was called Religious Trauma, and 212 00:16:02,480 --> 00:16:05,400 Speaker 3: so we were speaking to the audience from the lens 213 00:16:05,640 --> 00:16:11,040 Speaker 3: of having experienced, whether you knew what or not, religious 214 00:16:11,080 --> 00:16:14,760 Speaker 3: trauma or something that blocks you from your connection with God. 215 00:16:15,920 --> 00:16:18,680 Speaker 3: And for so many people, I mean that even that 216 00:16:18,880 --> 00:16:22,800 Speaker 3: concept has never been heard of. But as people start 217 00:16:22,880 --> 00:16:26,000 Speaker 3: to hear about it more and more, they're finding where 218 00:16:26,040 --> 00:16:29,440 Speaker 3: that actually settles within them. You know, we heard from 219 00:16:29,440 --> 00:16:32,320 Speaker 3: some people who had been a part of had one 220 00:16:32,360 --> 00:16:38,280 Speaker 3: religious background and you know, they were JW and left JW, 221 00:16:38,320 --> 00:16:41,720 Speaker 3: and they were talking about their experiences there and you 222 00:16:41,760 --> 00:16:44,000 Speaker 3: know how they were no longer in contact with their family. 223 00:16:44,280 --> 00:16:45,960 Speaker 4: So many stories, so many. 224 00:16:45,760 --> 00:16:49,120 Speaker 3: Stories, and we were talking about how you know, one 225 00:16:49,160 --> 00:16:52,560 Speaker 3: of the things that is so insidious and awful about 226 00:16:52,600 --> 00:16:53,920 Speaker 3: religious trauma is. 227 00:16:53,880 --> 00:16:57,080 Speaker 4: Like it cuts you at the. 228 00:16:56,800 --> 00:17:01,160 Speaker 3: Core fundamental level of your humanity. Like if you can 229 00:17:01,240 --> 00:17:05,879 Speaker 3: create question or shame or distance between another person and 230 00:17:05,880 --> 00:17:08,719 Speaker 3: their ability to have faith and their ability to have 231 00:17:08,760 --> 00:17:13,040 Speaker 3: a higher power, Like it's just that what could be 232 00:17:13,080 --> 00:17:16,720 Speaker 3: more manipulative, Like that is the greatest manipulation of all time. 233 00:17:18,480 --> 00:17:20,439 Speaker 3: One of the things that I'm getting to is, I 234 00:17:20,480 --> 00:17:23,560 Speaker 3: remember we were talking about all different kinds of trauma, 235 00:17:23,600 --> 00:17:26,080 Speaker 3: whether it was abuses within the church, within the family, 236 00:17:26,480 --> 00:17:29,720 Speaker 3: and I remember doctor Teddy Reeves said he said, but 237 00:17:29,840 --> 00:17:33,480 Speaker 3: let's talk about one of the first greatest traumas against women, 238 00:17:34,119 --> 00:17:37,520 Speaker 3: and it's the fact that in our churches we are 239 00:17:37,640 --> 00:17:42,760 Speaker 3: telling women that they cannot be pastors, we are telling 240 00:17:42,840 --> 00:17:46,239 Speaker 3: women that they cannot lead in the church. And you know, 241 00:17:46,320 --> 00:17:50,320 Speaker 3: these were his words based on his study, but saying that, 242 00:17:50,680 --> 00:17:54,320 Speaker 3: you know, a misinterpreted part of the Bible that's asking 243 00:17:54,359 --> 00:17:57,160 Speaker 3: women to be silent, right, And he's like, they were 244 00:17:57,200 --> 00:17:58,000 Speaker 3: just loud. 245 00:17:57,760 --> 00:17:58,399 Speaker 4: In the moment. 246 00:17:58,640 --> 00:18:00,960 Speaker 3: He was just shushing the audio in front of him 247 00:18:01,000 --> 00:18:04,560 Speaker 3: and it was being recorded, you know, but that didn't 248 00:18:04,600 --> 00:18:09,440 Speaker 3: mean that women cannot lead in the church and have 249 00:18:09,640 --> 00:18:13,880 Speaker 3: deep connection to God. And it's just like, I think, 250 00:18:14,040 --> 00:18:16,399 Speaker 3: like so much of what you're saying, It's like that 251 00:18:16,560 --> 00:18:20,640 Speaker 3: is the core of the trauma that has been begun 252 00:18:20,880 --> 00:18:24,280 Speaker 3: when women were left out of scripture and their work 253 00:18:24,440 --> 00:18:28,400 Speaker 3: was completely erased from what they brought to the world 254 00:18:28,960 --> 00:18:34,200 Speaker 3: with faith, with God, with love and through to now 255 00:18:34,280 --> 00:18:38,439 Speaker 3: this idea in some churches that you can do everything else, 256 00:18:38,520 --> 00:18:42,320 Speaker 3: you can take care of the men, but you there 257 00:18:42,359 --> 00:18:45,160 Speaker 3: is no way God is talking to you. You can't 258 00:18:45,160 --> 00:18:48,440 Speaker 3: share any of that with the people. And it's just like, wow, 259 00:18:48,600 --> 00:18:51,520 Speaker 3: you know, hearing the way that changes forms, but has 260 00:18:52,280 --> 00:18:55,360 Speaker 3: remained over centuries. 261 00:18:55,600 --> 00:18:57,160 Speaker 4: Is a mind blowing. 262 00:18:58,000 --> 00:19:01,439 Speaker 2: And first of all, I'm so grateful that he said it. 263 00:19:01,520 --> 00:19:04,960 Speaker 2: I don't know if this was your experience, but my 264 00:19:05,080 --> 00:19:10,320 Speaker 2: whole body relaxes when someone outside of me owns it 265 00:19:10,359 --> 00:19:12,520 Speaker 2: and says it. And I don't have to be the one, 266 00:19:14,359 --> 00:19:18,680 Speaker 2: you know, fighting and researching and you know, screaming from 267 00:19:18,720 --> 00:19:23,560 Speaker 2: the corners of the world. This has a profound impact 268 00:19:23,680 --> 00:19:27,240 Speaker 2: the world over, because our ideas of the divine affect 269 00:19:27,280 --> 00:19:30,800 Speaker 2: the status of women and girls throughout time, through history, 270 00:19:31,280 --> 00:19:38,240 Speaker 2: and more importantly, affect our own ideas of ourselves. 271 00:19:38,240 --> 00:19:40,240 Speaker 4: And so much things. 272 00:19:40,400 --> 00:19:42,919 Speaker 2: To be able to really listen to that voice of 273 00:19:42,960 --> 00:19:48,080 Speaker 2: truth inside of us and believe it. And that quote 274 00:19:48,200 --> 00:19:51,600 Speaker 2: one Timothy is attributed to Paul, and of course Paul 275 00:19:51,800 --> 00:19:54,120 Speaker 2: in the Acts of Paul and Thuckla, which the Girl 276 00:19:54,160 --> 00:19:59,159 Speaker 2: who Baptized Herself is about. Scholars now say that that 277 00:19:59,359 --> 00:20:03,560 Speaker 2: was absolutely not Paul who wrote that. It's attributed to Paul, 278 00:20:04,240 --> 00:20:07,760 Speaker 2: but it's very difficult to say that it was actually 279 00:20:07,840 --> 00:20:12,400 Speaker 2: anything he said. And what's so interesting is the complete 280 00:20:12,440 --> 00:20:15,800 Speaker 2: erasure of texts like the Gospel of Mary Magdalene and 281 00:20:15,840 --> 00:20:18,200 Speaker 2: the Acts of Paul and Thecla. This happened around the 282 00:20:18,240 --> 00:20:24,240 Speaker 2: fourth century. It began when Christianity became patriarchal. So if 283 00:20:24,240 --> 00:20:27,160 Speaker 2: it was going to become patriarchal, we had to erase 284 00:20:27,600 --> 00:20:32,120 Speaker 2: the bishops who convene under Constantine the fourth century. They 285 00:20:32,240 --> 00:20:37,320 Speaker 2: had to erase all of these stories about these women 286 00:20:37,720 --> 00:20:41,720 Speaker 2: who were in exceptional places of spiritual authority, like Mary 287 00:20:41,760 --> 00:20:47,640 Speaker 2: Magdalene and like Thecla. Becla, in her story baptizes herself. 288 00:20:48,600 --> 00:20:58,840 Speaker 2: And that erasure is so profound because we don't even 289 00:20:59,000 --> 00:21:02,040 Speaker 2: know who Paul is is without seeing who he was 290 00:21:02,359 --> 00:21:06,440 Speaker 2: to Thecla. He was a mentor to her. Becla ministered 291 00:21:06,560 --> 00:21:13,040 Speaker 2: alongside Paul, and we all remember Paul, but almost no 292 00:21:13,119 --> 00:21:17,479 Speaker 2: one even knows Becla's name, much less her story, and 293 00:21:17,520 --> 00:21:22,639 Speaker 2: that she was really like the female counterpart to Paul 294 00:21:22,840 --> 00:21:25,679 Speaker 2: in the way that Mary Magdalen was the counterpart to Christ. 295 00:21:26,160 --> 00:21:33,440 Speaker 2: But we've lost that embodiment, that modeling, that visual affirmation 296 00:21:33,680 --> 00:21:36,600 Speaker 2: for all of us that God is here too in 297 00:21:36,640 --> 00:21:37,560 Speaker 2: the female form. 298 00:21:38,440 --> 00:21:38,840 Speaker 4: Wow. 299 00:21:38,880 --> 00:21:43,320 Speaker 2: And it's so important for us to feel that and 300 00:21:43,440 --> 00:21:47,960 Speaker 2: to know that, because it helps us then to be 301 00:21:48,080 --> 00:21:53,760 Speaker 2: able to understand that these you know, illusions, these ideas 302 00:21:53,800 --> 00:21:58,800 Speaker 2: that it's more sacred to be male. You know. It's 303 00:21:59,320 --> 00:22:02,240 Speaker 2: that the so is more sacred than the body. That 304 00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:06,000 Speaker 2: you know, all of these ideas, of these these sort 305 00:22:06,040 --> 00:22:11,879 Speaker 2: of dualities that the hierarchies right, those aren't real. And 306 00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:15,159 Speaker 2: on a very deep level, we all know this. We 307 00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:18,080 Speaker 2: all know this. The body is the soul's chance to 308 00:22:18,119 --> 00:22:22,320 Speaker 2: be here. I love the way we need this flesh 309 00:22:22,359 --> 00:22:26,040 Speaker 2: as much as we need the spirit. It's it's both, 310 00:22:26,119 --> 00:22:28,560 Speaker 2: and we need the female as much as we need 311 00:22:28,560 --> 00:22:32,199 Speaker 2: the male, and we need all expressions of sex and 312 00:22:32,280 --> 00:22:36,880 Speaker 2: gender because the soul isn't sext you know. So those 313 00:22:36,920 --> 00:22:41,040 Speaker 2: of us who are non binary, are trans, are are 314 00:22:41,080 --> 00:22:44,480 Speaker 2: more in touch with that genderless soul inside of us. 315 00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:47,920 Speaker 2: You know that that essence of who we are, which 316 00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:51,880 Speaker 2: is the aspect of us that will exist after this 317 00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:57,600 Speaker 2: human form and existed before it. So that to me 318 00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:05,119 Speaker 2: is so encouraging and inspiring and empowering to hear that, 319 00:23:06,040 --> 00:23:14,240 Speaker 2: And I hope so many more brothers really own that 320 00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:19,639 Speaker 2: knowledge and speak that knowledge for all of our sake. 321 00:23:20,440 --> 00:23:23,920 Speaker 2: This isn't a you know us in them or a 322 00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:28,720 Speaker 2: this is for all of us because it only benefits 323 00:23:28,800 --> 00:23:32,919 Speaker 2: all of us, For every single one of us to 324 00:23:33,040 --> 00:23:36,680 Speaker 2: be back in touch with that guidance, you know, that 325 00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:39,520 Speaker 2: voice of love is how I refer to it, the 326 00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:43,320 Speaker 2: soul voice inside of us. We all benefit from that 327 00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:49,400 Speaker 2: healing deeply. 328 00:23:49,720 --> 00:23:49,960 Speaker 1: Well. 329 00:23:52,840 --> 00:23:56,240 Speaker 3: I know people ponder this for their entire lives throughout history, 330 00:23:56,280 --> 00:23:59,679 Speaker 3: but it's just so kind of deep and also odd 331 00:23:59,760 --> 00:24:07,160 Speaker 3: and strange and complex to think about the propaganda against 332 00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:11,080 Speaker 3: women and their connection to God and faith, and like 333 00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:14,719 Speaker 3: something that I think about a lot is you know, 334 00:24:14,760 --> 00:24:19,439 Speaker 3: and I have one million percent identify as walking the 335 00:24:19,480 --> 00:24:21,840 Speaker 3: path of Christ and seeking to have a Christ's mind 336 00:24:21,880 --> 00:24:26,919 Speaker 3: and the teachings of Christ and Christ's mastery on earth 337 00:24:27,080 --> 00:24:30,639 Speaker 3: and the Divine Mother is a huge guide for me 338 00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:35,000 Speaker 3: in my life. And something one that I always thought 339 00:24:35,119 --> 00:24:39,439 Speaker 3: was strange is that more information was not really shared 340 00:24:39,480 --> 00:24:41,919 Speaker 3: about Mary as a woman and as a mother and 341 00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:44,560 Speaker 3: as her life because it's like, if you are raising 342 00:24:44,720 --> 00:24:48,600 Speaker 3: the Christ, if you're raising young Yeshua, and we're not 343 00:24:48,760 --> 00:24:53,719 Speaker 3: talking about how you molded him to rise into his 344 00:24:53,880 --> 00:24:57,879 Speaker 3: destiny and what was he studying? What paths did she 345 00:24:58,040 --> 00:25:01,920 Speaker 3: create for him? And what was that sacred relationship? Really, 346 00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:04,760 Speaker 3: like like we have the moments of the sacred right, 347 00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:06,200 Speaker 3: like we have the moments like. 348 00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:09,480 Speaker 4: Her giving birth. 349 00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:12,439 Speaker 3: To him and jes like the oh my God, you 350 00:25:12,440 --> 00:25:16,439 Speaker 3: know the power of that story, and then how she 351 00:25:16,960 --> 00:25:22,920 Speaker 3: is experiencing his crucifixion. But it's like, where is the actual, 352 00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:27,800 Speaker 3: like profound presence of her in his life mentioned anywhere else, 353 00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:29,760 Speaker 3: or how she was feeling and. 354 00:25:29,680 --> 00:25:31,760 Speaker 4: Talking to God about this herself. 355 00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:36,879 Speaker 3: So that part has always been like, yeah, that doesn't 356 00:25:37,119 --> 00:25:38,040 Speaker 3: it's incomplete. 357 00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:43,720 Speaker 4: And then also I wonder, you know, is really what 358 00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:46,040 Speaker 4: is in it for the. 359 00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:52,000 Speaker 3: People throughout history that try to take God out of 360 00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:56,399 Speaker 3: the body, that try to take away and actually create 361 00:25:56,600 --> 00:26:01,359 Speaker 3: walls around the experience of feeling God on earth, and 362 00:26:01,920 --> 00:26:03,800 Speaker 3: you know, kind of for everyone. What I mean by 363 00:26:03,800 --> 00:26:07,440 Speaker 3: that is, you know, when you look at some other religions, 364 00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:13,520 Speaker 3: like even Catholicism, you know, the Muslim religion, a lot 365 00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:18,280 Speaker 3: of it is really connected to certain physical rituals that 366 00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:21,679 Speaker 3: I recognize now as putting you into a certain kind 367 00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:25,879 Speaker 3: of meditative or contemplative state, right where with the power 368 00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:31,480 Speaker 3: of meditation, you're creating space for your consciousness to elevate, 369 00:26:31,520 --> 00:26:35,280 Speaker 3: which means you know, having like divine connection and communion 370 00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:41,200 Speaker 3: and even yeah, physical ritual holding a rosary. What it is, 371 00:26:41,320 --> 00:26:44,080 Speaker 3: you know, very similar to mala bedes and going one 372 00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:48,520 Speaker 3: by one, but it is to create space and pause 373 00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:52,960 Speaker 3: in your life that is strictly dedicated to like a 374 00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:58,720 Speaker 3: full bodied devotion to God. And I think in Christianity 375 00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:03,560 Speaker 3: that is a lot different. They're obviously still prayer, still scripture, 376 00:27:03,640 --> 00:27:07,920 Speaker 3: but there is this distance about. It's like you have 377 00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:11,720 Speaker 3: to pass through somewhere else or someone else right to 378 00:27:11,840 --> 00:27:15,360 Speaker 3: have God removed yet once removed, And it's just I've 379 00:27:15,359 --> 00:27:16,840 Speaker 3: always been curious about that. 380 00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:18,680 Speaker 4: So just any any thoughts. 381 00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:21,520 Speaker 3: You have from like, I mean, your immense lifetime of 382 00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:22,280 Speaker 3: study on this. 383 00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:27,240 Speaker 2: Well, first, I've also always found it curious the way 384 00:27:27,320 --> 00:27:33,040 Speaker 2: that Mary, the Mother of God was stripped of her 385 00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:38,280 Speaker 2: humanity in her story, and how convenient that would be 386 00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:42,280 Speaker 2: then for those of us who would want to draw 387 00:27:42,520 --> 00:27:47,439 Speaker 2: strength from her, as women who have physically given birth, 388 00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:51,000 Speaker 2: who've had sex and have physically given birth, to be 389 00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:55,760 Speaker 2: able to like fully identify with her and to siphon 390 00:27:56,119 --> 00:28:00,679 Speaker 2: a sense of the sacred through her story. What happened was, 391 00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:06,560 Speaker 2: by the sixth century, as Christianity was becoming more institutionalized, 392 00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:11,679 Speaker 2: she became Tiatkos. A series of counsels began to happen 393 00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:15,760 Speaker 2: beginning in the fourth century under Constantine that was creating 394 00:28:16,040 --> 00:28:23,719 Speaker 2: the patriarchal version of Christianity. And if Mary gave birth 395 00:28:23,760 --> 00:28:30,600 Speaker 2: to Christ, this would give women this sense of exaltation 396 00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:35,480 Speaker 2: in a sense, a sense of power. But if Mary 397 00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:40,880 Speaker 2: is stripped of her humanity, then it's unattainable for a 398 00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:47,480 Speaker 2: human woman to ever truly identify with her. So by 399 00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:51,040 Speaker 2: the sixth century she was named tiatikast, she was named 400 00:28:51,080 --> 00:28:55,120 Speaker 2: the Immaculate Virgin, right, which I mean, how many of 401 00:28:55,200 --> 00:28:59,360 Speaker 2: us right identify with that? Then? So what we're doing 402 00:28:59,800 --> 00:29:05,240 Speaker 2: by giving birth, by really, you know, most closely mimicking 403 00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:08,520 Speaker 2: the divine power to give life, this is this makes 404 00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:13,520 Speaker 2: us somehow more unfit her positions of spiritual authority. I 405 00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:18,200 Speaker 2: don't think so that's wild, right, Like what kind of 406 00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:22,800 Speaker 2: spiritual jiu jitsu just happened that the fact that I, 407 00:29:23,360 --> 00:29:28,440 Speaker 2: this body, this form that I'm in, can give birth 408 00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:33,920 Speaker 2: to a male, How did somehow that disqualify this body 409 00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:37,520 Speaker 2: then from being able to be pope? Like that doesn't 410 00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:41,080 Speaker 2: make any sense to me, but it does under that 411 00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:47,720 Speaker 2: structure where these figures in history lost their humanity, they're 412 00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:51,479 Speaker 2: not She wasn't fully human and fully divine, which is 413 00:29:51,560 --> 00:29:56,240 Speaker 2: really the emphasis on a lot of these gospels that 414 00:29:56,280 --> 00:29:59,280 Speaker 2: were left out of the story in the fourth century 415 00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:03,760 Speaker 2: were ordered to be destroyed, the Gospel of Philip, the 416 00:30:03,760 --> 00:30:10,600 Speaker 2: Gospel of Thomas. This really emphasized our capacity as humans. 417 00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:14,040 Speaker 2: What it meant was that we're a soul and a 418 00:30:14,080 --> 00:30:19,480 Speaker 2: body both. That's the ultimate paradox that we are. We're both. 419 00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:24,240 Speaker 2: We're not just human meaning flesh. We're not just this body. 420 00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:27,480 Speaker 2: We are this body, but we are also one hundred percent, 421 00:30:27,560 --> 00:30:31,240 Speaker 2: not fifty to fifty, one hundred percent. Also we are 422 00:30:31,840 --> 00:30:36,280 Speaker 2: an eternal soul, so we're both. But in the process 423 00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:42,240 Speaker 2: of you know, the formation of Christianity under the patriarchy, 424 00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:48,040 Speaker 2: it became a real effort to divest these figures Christ 425 00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:53,880 Speaker 2: Mary of their humanity. But then Mary Magdalene was divested 426 00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:57,960 Speaker 2: of her divinity. By the sixth century, she was referred 427 00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:01,320 Speaker 2: to as the penitent prostitute, which she was not. This 428 00:31:01,480 --> 00:31:06,040 Speaker 2: was a fiction created and again the purpose was to 429 00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:11,120 Speaker 2: make certain that she was disqualified from It justified the 430 00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:14,840 Speaker 2: exclusion of her leadership within the history of Christianity because 431 00:31:14,840 --> 00:31:19,600 Speaker 2: she was the prostitute. She wasn't, you know, And that 432 00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:26,280 Speaker 2: sort of power play is also seen in the second 433 00:31:26,400 --> 00:31:32,720 Speaker 2: question that you brought up about, you know, having the 434 00:31:32,840 --> 00:31:35,840 Speaker 2: access to the divine once removed, like we have to 435 00:31:35,920 --> 00:31:39,440 Speaker 2: go through our priest, we have to be absolved, or 436 00:31:39,480 --> 00:31:45,320 Speaker 2: we have to receive guidance. Of course, it's phenomenal to 437 00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:49,640 Speaker 2: have spiritual teachers. It's phenomenal to have spiritual guidance. But 438 00:31:49,760 --> 00:31:51,840 Speaker 2: here's the part that we've been missing, and it's the 439 00:31:51,880 --> 00:31:55,480 Speaker 2: part that I refer to as the divine feminine, the 440 00:31:55,520 --> 00:31:59,280 Speaker 2: divine masculine, the divine feminine. We need both and right 441 00:31:59,520 --> 00:32:04,840 Speaker 2: and the divine feminine aspect of Christianity is our capacity 442 00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:09,600 Speaker 2: to go inward through meditation and prayer and hear what's 443 00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:13,880 Speaker 2: actually true and right and meant for us. That way, 444 00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:17,360 Speaker 2: if there's a spiritual teacher outside of us, in a 445 00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:22,200 Speaker 2: position of exceptional power and authority, we can listen to them. 446 00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:28,560 Speaker 2: And also we can refuse to deny and ignore what 447 00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:32,120 Speaker 2: we are hearing inside of our heart, which could be saying, 448 00:32:32,800 --> 00:32:36,800 Speaker 2: this man in the robes of God is actually really 449 00:32:36,920 --> 00:32:38,400 Speaker 2: dangerous and harmful for me. 450 00:32:38,800 --> 00:32:39,160 Speaker 4: Wow. 451 00:32:39,520 --> 00:32:44,720 Speaker 2: And we've been missing that aspect, which is what has 452 00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:49,960 Speaker 2: made our churches and places of worship a breeding ground 453 00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:54,440 Speaker 2: for sexual assault and misuse of power, because we are 454 00:32:54,600 --> 00:32:58,120 Speaker 2: missing that other half of the story, which is present 455 00:32:58,120 --> 00:33:03,800 Speaker 2: in the Gospel of Mary, about knowing from the Greek gnosis, 456 00:33:04,800 --> 00:33:09,680 Speaker 2: which means knowledge gained from direct experience. So this isn't 457 00:33:09,720 --> 00:33:12,360 Speaker 2: something that anyone outside of us is teaching us or 458 00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:17,920 Speaker 2: telling us. Nosis Knowing is what we go inward to hear. 459 00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:18,480 Speaker 3: Hmm. 460 00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:23,239 Speaker 2: And what's so fascinating to me, I think evidence of 461 00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:27,720 Speaker 2: you know, the deepest wound of that erasure of those 462 00:33:27,840 --> 00:33:30,240 Speaker 2: texts like the Gospel of Mary, the Acts of Paul 463 00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:32,760 Speaker 2: and Thuchla, the Gospel of Thomas, the Gospel of Philip, 464 00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:37,560 Speaker 2: all these scriptures were leading us and instructing us on 465 00:33:37,720 --> 00:33:40,560 Speaker 2: how to hear that inner voice the Kingdom of God 466 00:33:40,600 --> 00:33:44,720 Speaker 2: is within, and those scriptures were Now those scriptures in 467 00:33:44,760 --> 00:33:49,880 Speaker 2: the fourth century were labeled as apocrypha. That word translates 468 00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:56,560 Speaker 2: of doubtful authenticity. Now, the lasting wound of that erasure 469 00:33:56,800 --> 00:34:01,520 Speaker 2: is that we hear often we see a vision, or 470 00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:05,920 Speaker 2: we hear some truth. Sometimes it comes in a very 471 00:34:06,920 --> 00:34:10,520 Speaker 2: like crazy way. In a crazy moment, you're stopped at 472 00:34:10,520 --> 00:34:13,440 Speaker 2: a red light and suddenly you hear something, but you 473 00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:20,520 Speaker 2: know what you're hearing is love guiding you. But the 474 00:34:20,680 --> 00:34:24,319 Speaker 2: real wound is that we hear it and we don't 475 00:34:24,360 --> 00:34:29,680 Speaker 2: believe it. We label it as of doubtful authenticity. We 476 00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:33,399 Speaker 2: don't trust ourselves, We don't believe in ourselves, even when 477 00:34:33,440 --> 00:34:36,760 Speaker 2: the voice of love is like so loud and trying 478 00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:41,840 Speaker 2: to guide us, and we don't believe it. Because so 479 00:34:41,960 --> 00:34:46,040 Speaker 2: many of us, and this is really really at the 480 00:34:46,040 --> 00:34:52,799 Speaker 2: heart of everything, we don't understand our worth. We think 481 00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:57,440 Speaker 2: that we are unworthy of such proximity to the divine. 482 00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:03,160 Speaker 2: And the reason this is all so significant is that 483 00:35:04,040 --> 00:35:06,640 Speaker 2: if our access to the divine is outside of us, 484 00:35:06,840 --> 00:35:11,160 Speaker 2: then we are completely disempowered. We are completely at the 485 00:35:11,200 --> 00:35:15,120 Speaker 2: power of whoever it is we believe is really guiding us. 486 00:35:15,239 --> 00:35:20,920 Speaker 2: Or if the voice of love, if the voice of 487 00:35:21,239 --> 00:35:25,160 Speaker 2: the divine can be accessed directly from within us through 488 00:35:25,400 --> 00:35:29,440 Speaker 2: spiritual practice, through moments of just grace. I mean, some 489 00:35:29,480 --> 00:35:32,040 Speaker 2: people never meditate a moment in their life, but like 490 00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:35,680 Speaker 2: just as they get hit by a car, or like 491 00:35:36,040 --> 00:35:39,840 Speaker 2: just as you know some beloved in their life dies, 492 00:35:40,160 --> 00:35:45,279 Speaker 2: they hear something and they know it's the truth. But 493 00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:51,360 Speaker 2: when we understand that worth is not earned, worth is 494 00:35:51,400 --> 00:35:55,680 Speaker 2: simply claimed that our worth in being human is inherent. 495 00:35:57,719 --> 00:36:04,200 Speaker 2: Then we understand that there are no gates to God. 496 00:36:05,160 --> 00:36:09,480 Speaker 2: How could there be? How could there be? There have 497 00:36:10,080 --> 00:36:14,799 Speaker 2: never been a set of criterion, you know, like here 498 00:36:15,040 --> 00:36:17,440 Speaker 2: are all here are the list of things you have 499 00:36:17,520 --> 00:36:20,120 Speaker 2: to do, and here's the way you have to look, 500 00:36:20,200 --> 00:36:21,799 Speaker 2: and this is what you have to be in order 501 00:36:21,880 --> 00:36:24,560 Speaker 2: to hear God. How could that ever be true? How 502 00:36:24,560 --> 00:36:28,400 Speaker 2: could that ever be true? For me? What's true is 503 00:36:28,440 --> 00:36:32,239 Speaker 2: that love is love, is love is love, God is love. 504 00:36:33,080 --> 00:36:36,600 Speaker 2: And there could never be a fence around that. There 505 00:36:36,600 --> 00:36:40,000 Speaker 2: could never be a padlock on that door. That door 506 00:36:40,040 --> 00:36:42,880 Speaker 2: would have to open inward, and that door would have 507 00:36:42,920 --> 00:36:43,919 Speaker 2: to be in our own heart. 508 00:36:48,080 --> 00:36:53,239 Speaker 3: Oh my goodness, it's just it is so, it's so 509 00:36:54,040 --> 00:36:58,359 Speaker 3: it's the paradox, the living paradox, because it's like this 510 00:36:58,440 --> 00:37:03,000 Speaker 3: is so much to really, i mean, so many layers 511 00:37:03,120 --> 00:37:05,920 Speaker 3: of what we have to unlearn and take back and 512 00:37:06,680 --> 00:37:10,359 Speaker 3: really reject in history, you know, and at the same 513 00:37:10,440 --> 00:37:15,279 Speaker 3: time feels like the most absolute natural thing, you know. 514 00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:15,920 Speaker 2: And it's like. 515 00:37:18,640 --> 00:37:21,799 Speaker 3: So many words to talk about what that feeling is. Right, 516 00:37:21,840 --> 00:37:24,440 Speaker 3: I think the main one we use often in society 517 00:37:24,520 --> 00:37:28,040 Speaker 3: is like intuition, right, and like you know, a woman's intuition, 518 00:37:28,120 --> 00:37:30,960 Speaker 3: a mother's intuition, or you know, just that you kind 519 00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:33,600 Speaker 3: of know, or for some of the girlies out there, 520 00:37:33,680 --> 00:37:35,520 Speaker 3: the ones that are like I just be knowing, I 521 00:37:35,680 --> 00:37:38,400 Speaker 3: just be knowing, you know, like, yeah, that kind of 522 00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:42,360 Speaker 3: a thing. And so often throughout history we've known women 523 00:37:42,440 --> 00:37:45,600 Speaker 3: as being the seers, you know, and without the title, 524 00:37:45,719 --> 00:37:50,480 Speaker 3: kind of the prophets and the lovers and the healers. 525 00:37:50,760 --> 00:37:51,000 Speaker 1: You know. 526 00:37:52,960 --> 00:37:56,480 Speaker 4: Talk to me about feminine embodiment. 527 00:37:59,120 --> 00:38:04,760 Speaker 2: It's so critical too in everything that we've been talking about, 528 00:38:04,840 --> 00:38:07,840 Speaker 2: you know, this unlearning. I think one of the most 529 00:38:07,960 --> 00:38:14,239 Speaker 2: critical things for us to understand, given so much of culture, 530 00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:18,239 Speaker 2: so much religion, no matter what religion we're in, is 531 00:38:18,360 --> 00:38:23,200 Speaker 2: modeling that to be female is somehow less than makes 532 00:38:23,280 --> 00:38:30,480 Speaker 2: us intrinsically less worthy of positions of power and what yes, 533 00:38:30,600 --> 00:38:33,200 Speaker 2: somehow also work courses. You know. 534 00:38:33,280 --> 00:38:37,600 Speaker 3: It's like we are positioned as being slightly less, you know, 535 00:38:38,600 --> 00:38:41,240 Speaker 3: a little defective in some way, yet at the same 536 00:38:41,360 --> 00:38:45,080 Speaker 3: time where the grand multitaskers of our lives and we 537 00:38:45,160 --> 00:38:50,920 Speaker 3: are expected to do absolutely everything and hold the emotional weight, 538 00:38:51,520 --> 00:38:56,240 Speaker 3: the spiritual weight, the amount of mental and emotional labor 539 00:38:56,800 --> 00:38:58,799 Speaker 3: we give it, and their studies to support this. I'm 540 00:38:58,840 --> 00:39:01,799 Speaker 3: not just speaking in theory. There are studies to support 541 00:39:02,239 --> 00:39:05,200 Speaker 3: how different our brains are from men in the sense 542 00:39:05,320 --> 00:39:09,680 Speaker 3: that we are carrying the weight of our households and 543 00:39:09,680 --> 00:39:12,480 Speaker 3: our partners and our lives literally inside of. 544 00:39:12,520 --> 00:39:19,239 Speaker 2: Us, and yet we're expected to receive scraps yeah for it, 545 00:39:19,600 --> 00:39:22,760 Speaker 2: you know, and to be okay with that scraps of power. 546 00:39:23,400 --> 00:39:23,640 Speaker 3: Yeah. 547 00:39:24,840 --> 00:39:31,000 Speaker 2: But I think what's so interesting about that embodiment piece 548 00:39:31,320 --> 00:39:37,640 Speaker 2: for me is that traditionally, so much of spiritual practice 549 00:39:37,680 --> 00:39:43,840 Speaker 2: and so much of regardless of the tradition, religions throughout 550 00:39:43,960 --> 00:39:50,040 Speaker 2: history have really scapegoaded the body, and the emphasis has 551 00:39:50,120 --> 00:39:54,799 Speaker 2: been to transcend the body and deny the body to 552 00:39:54,880 --> 00:40:00,560 Speaker 2: wear white to you know, as opposed to like our mensies, 553 00:40:00,760 --> 00:40:05,840 Speaker 2: like the blood like somehow makes us you know, uh, unholy. 554 00:40:06,320 --> 00:40:08,799 Speaker 2: The fact that we bleed like the mensies is a 555 00:40:10,280 --> 00:40:13,640 Speaker 2: is in a holy time. It's like what sets us apart. 556 00:40:13,719 --> 00:40:19,719 Speaker 2: And so there are all these aspects of religion. Starvation, 557 00:40:20,640 --> 00:40:25,279 Speaker 2: you know. I like to say that a monk, like 558 00:40:25,320 --> 00:40:32,080 Speaker 2: a male monk's very spiritual day of selfless service, you know, silence, 559 00:40:33,640 --> 00:40:38,360 Speaker 2: denying the body by starving or you know, and wearing 560 00:40:38,560 --> 00:40:43,280 Speaker 2: robes and just just all of that kind of denial 561 00:40:43,320 --> 00:40:48,400 Speaker 2: of the body is like a normal Tuesday for a woman, 562 00:40:48,680 --> 00:40:53,600 Speaker 2: like that sense of the oppression that's placed on women's 563 00:40:53,600 --> 00:41:00,879 Speaker 2: bodies and the denial, especially the starvation, the know, this 564 00:41:01,040 --> 00:41:06,319 Speaker 2: emphasis to like really want to remove ourselves from the 565 00:41:06,360 --> 00:41:08,839 Speaker 2: body in order to be closer to the divine. This, 566 00:41:08,920 --> 00:41:17,520 Speaker 2: I would argue, has been a systematic way for us 567 00:41:18,680 --> 00:41:25,759 Speaker 2: to not find our power. Because what when I started 568 00:41:26,320 --> 00:41:34,040 Speaker 2: really to practice meditation, what I found was that further up, 569 00:41:34,440 --> 00:41:38,200 Speaker 2: you know, that sense of ascension is actually deeper in 570 00:41:39,560 --> 00:41:43,520 Speaker 2: so it's the opposite direction. And for me, as someone 571 00:41:43,800 --> 00:41:50,080 Speaker 2: who has encountered sexual assault, you know, I have situations 572 00:41:50,080 --> 00:41:52,880 Speaker 2: of my father driving with me drunk, you know, moments 573 00:41:52,920 --> 00:41:57,520 Speaker 2: where I had to disassociate in order to survive. What 574 00:41:57,680 --> 00:42:03,080 Speaker 2: I've found is that that disassociation from the body is 575 00:42:03,120 --> 00:42:07,840 Speaker 2: the most disempowering state to be in, and that healing 576 00:42:08,000 --> 00:42:12,360 Speaker 2: for me was in the opposite direction of how spiritual 577 00:42:12,400 --> 00:42:16,359 Speaker 2: trajectory usually encourages. You know, it's not more and more 578 00:42:16,480 --> 00:42:18,799 Speaker 2: out of the body, it's deeper and deeper in the 579 00:42:18,840 --> 00:42:21,880 Speaker 2: body is where I could hear with clarity the voice 580 00:42:21,920 --> 00:42:27,719 Speaker 2: of love. My encounters with Christ or knowing truth within 581 00:42:27,840 --> 00:42:32,120 Speaker 2: me was about embodiment, and the reason why this is 582 00:42:32,160 --> 00:42:37,920 Speaker 2: so important for us to understand is that we are 583 00:42:38,040 --> 00:42:41,200 Speaker 2: only as far from power as we are from our 584 00:42:41,239 --> 00:42:46,839 Speaker 2: own embodiment. When we are fully in our body, this 585 00:42:46,920 --> 00:42:52,080 Speaker 2: is when we can hear and know and really understand 586 00:42:52,239 --> 00:42:56,200 Speaker 2: our worth, not from something we're trying to prove or 587 00:42:56,400 --> 00:43:01,360 Speaker 2: demonstrate to someone else true worth. What I mean by powers, 588 00:43:01,400 --> 00:43:06,840 Speaker 2: I mean I mean love. Like we especially as women, 589 00:43:06,920 --> 00:43:11,480 Speaker 2: are sold the story that we have to spend exorbitant 590 00:43:11,560 --> 00:43:15,800 Speaker 2: amounts of time, energy and money on finding love. Right 591 00:43:15,960 --> 00:43:19,080 Speaker 2: This is like it impressed upon us like from day one. 592 00:43:19,360 --> 00:43:23,120 Speaker 2: But we have to find love, and genuinely we usually 593 00:43:23,160 --> 00:43:26,160 Speaker 2: all ordinally really want it. We want to find love. 594 00:43:26,680 --> 00:43:31,480 Speaker 2: Here's here's the thing, though, If we return fully to 595 00:43:31,560 --> 00:43:36,800 Speaker 2: our body, when we are fully embodied, we are with love. 596 00:43:37,960 --> 00:43:42,919 Speaker 2: Love is here inside of us. Love looks out from 597 00:43:42,920 --> 00:43:45,680 Speaker 2: behind our eyes. And that's why so many of us 598 00:43:45,800 --> 00:43:49,319 Speaker 2: can't find it is because we're looking for it out 599 00:43:49,400 --> 00:43:53,080 Speaker 2: in the world around us, in someone right, who for 600 00:43:53,200 --> 00:43:57,360 Speaker 2: most of us, keeps leaving you know, or like, keeps 601 00:43:57,440 --> 00:44:01,520 Speaker 2: disappointing or keeps you know, not being able to reflect 602 00:44:01,680 --> 00:44:06,040 Speaker 2: that hydrant amount of love that we crave and we desire. 603 00:44:07,280 --> 00:44:11,399 Speaker 2: And the thing is is that that's what's here within us. 604 00:44:11,480 --> 00:44:14,560 Speaker 2: That's what's here within the heart. Love is what we 605 00:44:14,760 --> 00:44:18,080 Speaker 2: find when we return fully to the bodies. It's it's 606 00:44:18,120 --> 00:44:21,000 Speaker 2: not ultimately, it can for for many of us, and 607 00:44:21,040 --> 00:44:24,440 Speaker 2: I've seen it happen. For some. It can be mirrored 608 00:44:24,600 --> 00:44:27,919 Speaker 2: and it can be found. But the point is that 609 00:44:28,000 --> 00:44:34,800 Speaker 2: it's mirrored that the truest So it's not our source. 610 00:44:35,560 --> 00:44:38,560 Speaker 2: The most powerful place for us to be is to 611 00:44:38,880 --> 00:44:44,240 Speaker 2: source love from inside of us. Right, the truest form 612 00:44:44,320 --> 00:44:47,480 Speaker 2: of power is love, right, the love that is love, 613 00:44:47,560 --> 00:44:50,959 Speaker 2: that is love, that limitless love that comes from within 614 00:44:51,400 --> 00:44:56,520 Speaker 2: the heart. And to allow us then to understand, we 615 00:44:56,600 --> 00:45:01,359 Speaker 2: have choices, right, we can say no to the scraps 616 00:45:01,520 --> 00:45:05,879 Speaker 2: were being offered outside of us because we know we 617 00:45:05,920 --> 00:45:08,560 Speaker 2: will always be meant with love. Because love is right 618 00:45:08,560 --> 00:45:10,799 Speaker 2: here inside of us. It's going to go wherever we go. 619 00:45:10,920 --> 00:45:13,880 Speaker 2: We cannot be separate from it. We just have to 620 00:45:13,920 --> 00:45:19,120 Speaker 2: get still and quiet and dare to turn inward, which 621 00:45:19,160 --> 00:45:22,920 Speaker 2: is not easy, right, That's not easily done. It can 622 00:45:23,000 --> 00:45:28,160 Speaker 2: be difficult, terrifying, it's confronting. Yeah, because we have to 623 00:45:28,239 --> 00:45:32,080 Speaker 2: really face ourselves, and then when we go inward and 624 00:45:32,160 --> 00:45:34,480 Speaker 2: really hear what's true and right for us, the other 625 00:45:34,560 --> 00:45:38,680 Speaker 2: aspect of it is responsible then for owning it and 626 00:45:38,760 --> 00:45:45,759 Speaker 2: living in deeply well. 627 00:45:47,480 --> 00:45:52,279 Speaker 3: Something I'm so curious about when you were in these spaces. 628 00:45:52,360 --> 00:45:55,520 Speaker 3: I mean, you went to Harvard Divinity School, you did 629 00:45:55,560 --> 00:45:59,560 Speaker 3: seminary at Columbia University. These are you know, some of 630 00:45:59,560 --> 00:46:04,040 Speaker 3: our great institutions in the world, in the country, and 631 00:46:04,160 --> 00:46:04,840 Speaker 3: you were. 632 00:46:06,040 --> 00:46:08,440 Speaker 4: Finding these these. 633 00:46:10,440 --> 00:46:14,719 Speaker 3: Writings, you were kind of being given that deeper view 634 00:46:14,960 --> 00:46:21,719 Speaker 3: into religion over time and into these stories. Were any 635 00:46:21,760 --> 00:46:23,960 Speaker 3: of the men around you noticing that? 636 00:46:25,280 --> 00:46:29,279 Speaker 2: I often got why are you here? Because you know, 637 00:46:30,320 --> 00:46:33,200 Speaker 2: it was very clear that I wasn't going to be ordained, 638 00:46:33,520 --> 00:46:38,480 Speaker 2: like there wasn't a church that was going to take 639 00:46:38,520 --> 00:46:41,520 Speaker 2: me under its wing, because I really wanted to practice 640 00:46:41,560 --> 00:46:44,920 Speaker 2: the form of Christianity that existed before the fourth century, 641 00:46:45,000 --> 00:46:49,799 Speaker 2: before Mary Nybaln was became the prostitute. You know, where 642 00:46:49,840 --> 00:46:54,719 Speaker 2: Thekla existed, and you know, there isn't a church as 643 00:46:54,800 --> 00:46:58,080 Speaker 2: far as I know that exists like that. So I 644 00:46:58,120 --> 00:47:05,680 Speaker 2: often got why are you here? But why I was there? Why? 645 00:47:05,680 --> 00:47:07,760 Speaker 2: It was very important for me to be at those 646 00:47:08,239 --> 00:47:13,440 Speaker 2: specific institutions is because I had read the Gospel of 647 00:47:13,480 --> 00:47:17,640 Speaker 2: Mary before I got there. And at the end of 648 00:47:17,680 --> 00:47:23,200 Speaker 2: Mary's Gospel, after it opens with Peter asking her, sister, 649 00:47:23,520 --> 00:47:26,120 Speaker 2: we know the Savior loved you more than all other women. 650 00:47:26,719 --> 00:47:29,280 Speaker 2: Tell us the things that you know which we don't 651 00:47:29,360 --> 00:47:32,799 Speaker 2: because we haven't heard them, and Mary Magdalene says, I 652 00:47:32,840 --> 00:47:36,000 Speaker 2: will teach you about what is hidden from you. Then 653 00:47:36,040 --> 00:47:39,880 Speaker 2: she goes on to describe to the disciples, the male disciples, 654 00:47:40,239 --> 00:47:44,200 Speaker 2: what Christ taught her, which was that he taught her 655 00:47:44,239 --> 00:47:48,560 Speaker 2: how to receive Him from within her. And then at 656 00:47:48,560 --> 00:47:54,359 Speaker 2: the end of it, Peter doesn't believe her. So that 657 00:47:55,520 --> 00:47:59,160 Speaker 2: hit me so deep when I first read that, I 658 00:48:00,920 --> 00:48:05,080 Speaker 2: and sobbed and sobbed. I sobbed because it felt so 659 00:48:05,320 --> 00:48:10,120 Speaker 2: visceral and real to me. I felt like I knew 660 00:48:10,120 --> 00:48:12,480 Speaker 2: that moment, and I knew so many women who knew 661 00:48:12,480 --> 00:48:15,399 Speaker 2: that moment, who were telling the truth, and they were 662 00:48:15,440 --> 00:48:21,840 Speaker 2: not believed. And so that hit me so profoundly that 663 00:48:22,000 --> 00:48:26,400 Speaker 2: I understood, if I'm going to write about these texts 664 00:48:27,120 --> 00:48:35,120 Speaker 2: that were not only systematically erased, but disparaged and disbelieved, yeah, 665 00:48:35,280 --> 00:48:42,560 Speaker 2: so completely. I needed to have the education, the acumen 666 00:48:42,960 --> 00:48:46,160 Speaker 2: to be able to speak from a place of saying 667 00:48:47,080 --> 00:48:53,560 Speaker 2: this is valid, this is true. And also as someone 668 00:48:53,600 --> 00:48:57,520 Speaker 2: who often doubts herself and questions her own intelligence, her 669 00:48:57,560 --> 00:49:01,920 Speaker 2: own capacity to write. That's something I've struggled with most 670 00:49:01,960 --> 00:49:04,160 Speaker 2: of my life. I mean, it has to do with 671 00:49:04,880 --> 00:49:07,640 Speaker 2: being a survivor, and it has to do with being 672 00:49:07,640 --> 00:49:11,879 Speaker 2: in a culture that sees me as as less than 673 00:49:12,080 --> 00:49:17,680 Speaker 2: just inherently, so, as someone who contends with that, I 674 00:49:17,800 --> 00:49:22,560 Speaker 2: knew that if I put myself through that, I would 675 00:49:22,560 --> 00:49:29,279 Speaker 2: also forge that sense of believing in myself so that 676 00:49:29,920 --> 00:49:33,800 Speaker 2: when I met with which I knew I would People 677 00:49:33,960 --> 00:49:38,280 Speaker 2: who like Peter would not believe me when I wrote 678 00:49:38,680 --> 00:49:41,879 Speaker 2: Mary Magdalene Revealed or the Girl who Baptized Herself? Who 679 00:49:41,960 --> 00:49:45,840 Speaker 2: would call me, you know, false prophet or who would 680 00:49:45,960 --> 00:49:52,399 Speaker 2: you know say that what I'm writing about is not true. 681 00:49:52,600 --> 00:49:57,359 Speaker 2: I had the courage and the belief in myself and 682 00:49:57,440 --> 00:50:03,160 Speaker 2: my work in order to stand it. So it had 683 00:50:03,239 --> 00:50:07,680 Speaker 2: great intention and purpose for the sake of all of us. Right, Yeah, 684 00:50:07,800 --> 00:50:09,799 Speaker 2: who might be changed from hearing it? 685 00:50:10,640 --> 00:50:11,600 Speaker 3: Yeah? 686 00:50:11,640 --> 00:50:14,120 Speaker 1: Wow? Wow wow wow. 687 00:50:16,320 --> 00:50:21,480 Speaker 3: Megan Waterson her latest book, The Girl Who Baptized Herself 688 00:50:22,040 --> 00:50:25,920 Speaker 3: How a lost scripture about a saint named Thekla reveals 689 00:50:25,960 --> 00:50:30,719 Speaker 3: the power of knowing our worth. That book is available everywhere. 690 00:50:31,440 --> 00:50:36,360 Speaker 3: And also her classic that is world renowned is Mary 691 00:50:36,400 --> 00:50:41,000 Speaker 3: Magdalene Revealed the First Apostle, her feminist gospel and the 692 00:50:41,120 --> 00:50:47,480 Speaker 3: Christianity we haven't tried yet. Before I end every episode, 693 00:50:47,520 --> 00:50:49,920 Speaker 3: I like to extend to our guests an opportunity to 694 00:50:50,000 --> 00:50:53,320 Speaker 3: share what I call soul work. So it is something 695 00:50:53,400 --> 00:50:57,719 Speaker 3: that everyone who heard this episode can really utilize today 696 00:50:57,920 --> 00:51:00,800 Speaker 3: in the coming days to integrate everything that they heard. 697 00:51:01,680 --> 00:51:03,160 Speaker 2: It can be a practice that you have. 698 00:51:03,239 --> 00:51:05,400 Speaker 3: It can be a quote, it can be a prompt, 699 00:51:06,239 --> 00:51:10,040 Speaker 3: but anything that kind of makes it physical and real. 700 00:51:11,480 --> 00:51:13,560 Speaker 2: Love this. I give you the floor. I love this. 701 00:51:13,719 --> 00:51:18,319 Speaker 2: I love that you include this. So it's called the 702 00:51:18,360 --> 00:51:22,959 Speaker 2: three Breaths, and it's what I recommend most in terms 703 00:51:23,000 --> 00:51:27,640 Speaker 2: of soul work, because for me, it's what allows you 704 00:51:27,760 --> 00:51:33,840 Speaker 2: then to be able to encounter what might be soul 705 00:51:34,000 --> 00:51:39,200 Speaker 2: for you. And it's it's deceptively simple. It's literally just 706 00:51:39,320 --> 00:51:42,920 Speaker 2: three intentional breaths. But it's something that you can do. 707 00:51:43,520 --> 00:51:48,000 Speaker 2: It's concrete right now or at any moment when you 708 00:51:48,080 --> 00:51:51,279 Speaker 2: are feeling disembodied or distressed, you know, so you can 709 00:51:51,320 --> 00:51:53,839 Speaker 2: be at the group, like the grocery store, you can 710 00:51:53,880 --> 00:51:58,439 Speaker 2: be waiting in traffic, you can be anywhere, and it's 711 00:51:58,520 --> 00:52:02,359 Speaker 2: something that you can do so that helps you embody 712 00:52:02,480 --> 00:52:06,239 Speaker 2: and anchor more fully into the heart. So it's just 713 00:52:06,360 --> 00:52:11,160 Speaker 2: like this. You close your eyes if you're able to, 714 00:52:11,280 --> 00:52:13,960 Speaker 2: but you don't have to just close your eyes, and 715 00:52:14,000 --> 00:52:19,600 Speaker 2: you're going to breathe normally all throughout this meditation. You're 716 00:52:19,600 --> 00:52:24,799 Speaker 2: going to take your first intentional breath very deep, and 717 00:52:24,880 --> 00:52:28,399 Speaker 2: with this breath, you're going to descend into the heart. Now, 718 00:52:28,440 --> 00:52:31,280 Speaker 2: the mystics refer to the heart as the mediator between 719 00:52:31,320 --> 00:52:38,320 Speaker 2: the worlds. So sink deep down beneath the surface noise 720 00:52:38,480 --> 00:52:42,960 Speaker 2: of the egoic mind and all that it might be 721 00:52:43,080 --> 00:52:49,160 Speaker 2: derailing and deliminate you with just ideas and stories that 722 00:52:49,239 --> 00:52:54,200 Speaker 2: are truly just illusions about you. Try to sink beneath 723 00:52:54,800 --> 00:52:59,319 Speaker 2: that noise, like as if that those are waves on 724 00:52:59,360 --> 00:53:01,400 Speaker 2: the surface of the ocean. You want to go deep 725 00:53:01,600 --> 00:53:04,680 Speaker 2: down to where it's still and calm no matter what, 726 00:53:05,040 --> 00:53:10,680 Speaker 2: to where it's dark and quiet, like the womb. So 727 00:53:11,320 --> 00:53:14,040 Speaker 2: sink down deep into the body, and then take a 728 00:53:14,160 --> 00:53:19,759 Speaker 2: second intentional breath, and with this breath you're connecting to 729 00:53:20,560 --> 00:53:25,799 Speaker 2: that spark, that true self, that love, that is love, 730 00:53:25,880 --> 00:53:29,480 Speaker 2: That is love that waits for you to return to 731 00:53:29,520 --> 00:53:33,319 Speaker 2: it always, that exists within you, that will never leave, 732 00:53:35,520 --> 00:53:39,080 Speaker 2: That is the soul of who you are. And just 733 00:53:39,200 --> 00:53:46,160 Speaker 2: try to allow yourself to imagine merging with it, and 734 00:53:46,200 --> 00:53:48,799 Speaker 2: when and if you're ever in a space to ask 735 00:53:48,880 --> 00:53:53,520 Speaker 2: it a question like a little icebreaker, is what would 736 00:53:53,520 --> 00:53:56,560 Speaker 2: you have me know in this moment? And then you 737 00:53:56,600 --> 00:54:03,120 Speaker 2: can sit there and hang out and listen to the answer. Otherwise, 738 00:54:03,480 --> 00:54:12,000 Speaker 2: just take a little sip of that infinite, that invisible 739 00:54:12,080 --> 00:54:14,319 Speaker 2: light of heaven, which is how the trap is. Monk 740 00:54:14,400 --> 00:54:18,640 Speaker 2: Thomas Merton refers to it spiritual eye of the heart, 741 00:54:18,960 --> 00:54:22,920 Speaker 2: to see it open, and then take a third intentional breath, 742 00:54:23,880 --> 00:54:35,960 Speaker 2: drenching yourself in gratitude just forgetting to be here, and 743 00:54:36,000 --> 00:54:42,000 Speaker 2: then open your eyes and know that you will be 744 00:54:42,040 --> 00:54:45,560 Speaker 2: guided and hopefully more connected to that love that resides 745 00:54:45,719 --> 00:54:46,160 Speaker 2: within you. 746 00:54:49,560 --> 00:54:50,560 Speaker 3: That was really beautiful. 747 00:54:50,719 --> 00:54:51,120 Speaker 1: Thank you. 748 00:54:51,440 --> 00:54:53,960 Speaker 2: It's very simple, but it's transformational. 749 00:54:54,280 --> 00:54:58,600 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, that is so beautiful. Megan Waters Theon, thank 750 00:54:58,640 --> 00:55:01,040 Speaker 3: you so much for joining us today on Deeply Well, 751 00:55:01,160 --> 00:55:05,120 Speaker 3: thank you, thank you join us next week now mis Day. 752 00:55:12,160 --> 00:55:15,960 Speaker 3: The content presented on Deeply Well serves solely for educational 753 00:55:16,040 --> 00:55:19,759 Speaker 3: and informational purposes. It should not be considered a replacement 754 00:55:19,840 --> 00:55:23,839 Speaker 3: for personalized medical or mental health guidance, and does not 755 00:55:24,040 --> 00:55:28,960 Speaker 3: constitute a provider patient relationship. As always, it is advisable 756 00:55:29,000 --> 00:55:32,400 Speaker 3: to consult with your healthcare provider or health team for 757 00:55:32,600 --> 00:55:37,560 Speaker 3: any specific concerns or questions that you may have. Connect 758 00:55:37,560 --> 00:55:41,520 Speaker 3: with me on social at Debbie Brown. That's Twitter and Instagram, 759 00:55:41,760 --> 00:55:44,680 Speaker 3: or you can go to my website Debbie Brown dot com. 760 00:55:44,719 --> 00:55:47,359 Speaker 3: And if you're listening to the show on Apple Podcasts, 761 00:55:47,440 --> 00:55:51,680 Speaker 3: don't forget. Please rate, review, and subscribe and send this 762 00:55:51,800 --> 00:55:52,800 Speaker 3: episode to a friend. 763 00:55:53,320 --> 00:55:54,120 Speaker 2: Deeply Well is. 764 00:55:54,080 --> 00:55:57,359 Speaker 3: A production of iHeartRadio and The Black Effect Network. It's 765 00:55:57,360 --> 00:56:02,040 Speaker 3: produced by Jacques Thomas, Samantha Timmy and me Debbie Brown. 766 00:56:02,640 --> 00:56:06,640 Speaker 3: The Beautiful Soundbath You Heard That's by Jarrelyn Glass from 767 00:56:06,760 --> 00:56:12,040 Speaker 3: Crystal Cadence. 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