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Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics,

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Speaker 1: where we discuss the top political headlines with some of

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Speaker 1: today's best minds. And Donald Trump is mad at Fox

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Speaker 1: for using unflattering pictures of him.

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Speaker 2: We have an interesting show today.

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Speaker 1: Vice's Greg Walters joins us to talk about Trump's strange

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Speaker 1: choice of lawyer in his Georgia trial spoiler, he's a

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Speaker 1: billion dollar lawyer. Then we'll talk to the Washington Post

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Speaker 1: Drew Harwell about Elon Musk's Twitter x throttling mainstream media

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Speaker 1: outlets to punish them for not being nice to him.

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Speaker 2: But first we.

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Speaker 1: Have legendary democratic strategists. Your friend of mine, the one,

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Speaker 1: the only, James Carple.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to Fast Politics. James Carple.

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Speaker 3: Well, I'm always happy to be on his program. Always

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Speaker 3: I've been seeing on TV a lot.

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Speaker 2: You're doing right, Hey all, thank you. I'm very delighted.

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Speaker 2: Do you hear it?

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Speaker 1: You've been doing this for a while. Did you ever

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Speaker 1: think that you would have a Republican Party with a

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Speaker 1: front runner with four and it's actually five indictments because

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Speaker 1: of the superseding.

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Speaker 3: Well, one thing to say is, I've been doing politics

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Speaker 3: for a while in the United States and around the world.

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Speaker 3: I have no experience suggest this is like unheard of.

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Speaker 3: What I'm thought of interested in in a short time

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Speaker 3: is does he show up at the debate or does

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Speaker 3: he show up and turn himself in at the time

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Speaker 3: the debate starts. I'm making book or even money that

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Speaker 3: he announces when his.

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Speaker 4: Claim is going to land in Atlanta. Now it's gonna

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Speaker 4: be a modicade there.

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Speaker 3: He's going to show up right at the time that

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Speaker 3: the first question come, and I think he's gonna pull

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Speaker 3: every stunt you can think of.

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Speaker 1: If he does that, does he win the debate because

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Speaker 1: he sucks all the oxygen out of the room.

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Speaker 3: Well, you don't understand Trump's mind, attention is winning. So

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Speaker 3: by his definition of winning, Yeah, if you just look

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Speaker 3: at the schedule of arrangements, motion, you name it, the

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Speaker 3: civil trials, it's kind of hard to see how any

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Speaker 3: of these guys get very much oxygen, very much attention.

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Speaker 3: You know, I don't think he's still have that mundigi

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Speaker 3: where he's got one hundred page manifesto and how the

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Speaker 3: election is stole in front. But that's up there with

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Speaker 3: Mexico paying for the wall and infrastructure.

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Speaker 1: Okay, it's a kind of baffling fiasco, right, like think

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Speaker 1: you think about if you're a Republican donor, I mean,

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Speaker 1: what do you you're freaking.

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Speaker 3: Out right, Well, he's fucking up all of the money

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Speaker 3: to pay legal fees, so I hit a lot of Republicans,

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Speaker 3: like professional Republicans. He's taking money away. He doesn't give

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Speaker 3: any money back to the campaign. They're all to his

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Speaker 3: lawyers in himself. He's cleaning up what the citate candidates

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Speaker 3: are having trouble raising money because he's taken at all,

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Speaker 3: and none of it is going to help them withn't

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Speaker 3: and I don't know how to that changed it very much.

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Speaker 4: He doesn't care about the Republican Party.

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Speaker 3: In fact, I think I think he actually paints it

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Speaker 3: the Republican Party, and he likes me dominating it.

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Speaker 4: And you know, to him, cruelty is the point.

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Speaker 3: And he still be as cruel to them as a

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Speaker 3: conmedian now and now, Rudy, according to court files, times

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Speaker 3: he got the money, he can comply with the feeders anymore.

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Speaker 3: How much money Rudy Giuliani has made in this century,

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Speaker 3: you have no a lot earthy idea of how much

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Speaker 3: money he made, speaking until he Brew himself up, and

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Speaker 3: how much is Guliane Partners made Giuliani Law firm, and

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Speaker 3: they had every shakedown. Then you can think of it's

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Speaker 3: all gone, all right, the man's gonna die in jail.

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Speaker 1: Do you think Rudy is going to die in jail?

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Speaker 1: You're not the first person who has told.

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Speaker 3: Me those, by the way, hard to think of how

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Speaker 3: he doesn't I mean, but actually doesn't you know?

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Speaker 4: Off themselves with this Weeko statute.

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Speaker 1: There's a sort of part of the legal game here

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Speaker 1: is to try to get the littler fish to flip

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Speaker 1: on the bigger fish.

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Speaker 2: Do you see that happening?

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Speaker 4: Okay?

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Speaker 3: If there's nineteen indicted under the rid Cose acta Georgia.

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Speaker 3: So I'm a gamble, so you know what the over

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Speaker 3: under is?

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Speaker 2: No?

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Speaker 4: Okay? So down on. If there's a.

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Speaker 3: Football game and you say the over under is fifty,

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Speaker 3: that means that the total number point. If you take

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Speaker 3: the under, that means that the score ends up twenty

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Speaker 3: five to twenty four, The underwins because that's forty nine

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Speaker 3: total points. If it ends up twenty six and twenty five,

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Speaker 3: you win because that's fifty one total point. So what's

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Speaker 3: the over under of the nineteen. How many plead before trial?

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Speaker 3: So what do you because you feel pretty sure that

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Speaker 3: some of them are in. They had to get leverage

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Speaker 3: to get them to bleed. So is it the twelve

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Speaker 3: ats you go to til or fourteen actually go to trial.

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Speaker 3: I don't know, but it's just something to think about,

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Speaker 3: and they're going to try. I've seen a lot of commentary.

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Speaker 3: The friend of mine worked for the DA in Fococato,

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Speaker 3: was a very high level guy. I think his wife

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Speaker 3: still works there. And the people got to realize that

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Speaker 3: Atlanta School's case that Friandi Will was one ran and won,

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Speaker 3: was the most complex criminal trial in the history of

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Speaker 3: the United States, and they tried all of them together.

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Speaker 4: And which got a lot of the chatter ari going is.

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Speaker 3: A Ruth Marcus column who basically wrote a column saying,

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Speaker 3: I don't think the Atlanta people capable of handling this.

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Speaker 3: It's too complicated. They should just turn it over to Jacksmith.

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Speaker 3: I think miss Marcus under estimates to competence at that

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Speaker 3: office or actually simple the RICO status, but I don't

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Speaker 3: know that. But that's a talking point is should they

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Speaker 3: wait and defer to defense? And there's also significant there's

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Speaker 3: a chance. Walg Metal has already fouled to have the

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Speaker 3: case removes from state court to court. Why is this important?

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Speaker 3: First of all, jurypool goes from Fulham County to the

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Speaker 3: Northern District of Georgia, which would be considerably more favorable

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Speaker 3: jury pool to Trump than because it would be less democratic,

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Speaker 3: if you will. But the big reason is is that Georgia.

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Speaker 3: If he's tried in Georgia, it's on TV. Tried in

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Speaker 3: the Northern District. In federal court, it's not on TV.

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Speaker 3: And this is a motion that had some chance to

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Speaker 3: be granted, and there's actual stashed out. There is a

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Speaker 3: big argument as to why it shouldn't be granted. And

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Speaker 3: you know, but you got a lot of Trump appointed

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Speaker 3: judges in that Northern District of Georgia go decide that case.

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Speaker 3: The Eleventh District is heavily you know, can Republican appointed judges?

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Speaker 3: So I don't know, but that's going to be a bet.

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Speaker 3: That's a big deal. That's a big deal is the

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Speaker 3: removal from state to federal court.

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Speaker 2: But the larger.

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Speaker 1: Issue here, it seems to me, is that Trump World

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Speaker 1: is trying to try this case in the media.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, is that smart?

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Speaker 2: I mean, he's the only.

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Speaker 4: Thing he can do.

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Speaker 3: To ask him not to seek out all the press

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Speaker 3: in publicity again is like asking a shock Well, I

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Speaker 3: mean that's what he does. And in his mind this

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Speaker 3: has never failed him. He's never been convicted of anything,

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Speaker 3: he's been sued thirty five hundred times, never admit anything,

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Speaker 3: and he gets publicity, he wins a nomination. He actually

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Speaker 3: won the presidency one time, and he's not going to

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Speaker 3: change his way of operating or his political strategy on Iota.

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Speaker 4: You can't do it. You're just in gave up on it.

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Speaker 1: So if you were a Maga Republican strategist, would you

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Speaker 1: thank god they're not What would.

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Speaker 2: You do right now?

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Speaker 1: He seems like he's going to be the nominee. He

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Speaker 1: can't possibly he's not growing the electorate. I mean, what

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Speaker 1: are the choices here?

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Speaker 3: Well, if I'm a Maga Republican, I keep doubling down.

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Speaker 3: But what we have to understand, what the press has

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Speaker 3: to understand be out it's with you. I'm getting fricking

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Speaker 3: irritated at interviewing people at the Iowa State there right,

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Speaker 3: who do quote I do my own research unquote, They

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Speaker 3: need to interview Republican politicians, What will you do if

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Speaker 3: he's convicted? Do you think that this is motivated at

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Speaker 3: these serious charge what do you ask? Quit asking these

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Speaker 3: goddamn people in a diner what they think and start

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Speaker 3: making these Republican politicians that can't say what they really think.

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Speaker 3: I wish that son of a bitch would catch to

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Speaker 3: clap and die. All right, that's what they think, right.

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Speaker 1: Well, we've seen reporting where Republicans have said we're depending

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Speaker 1: on the actuarial tables, which was a way of them

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Speaker 1: saying they had hoped he would But that's an insane

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Speaker 1: thing to hope for your front runner.

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Speaker 3: When you can't an advice like that, you got to

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Speaker 3: hope with some weirdship because they're forty percent of that party,

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Speaker 3: and the problem is they knock him off, they're going

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Speaker 3: to have no enthusiastics.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 1: DeSantis was ultimately proof that trump Ism doesn't scale.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, Mollie, I think that a lot of

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Speaker 3: us just missed what a poor candidate, the census less,

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Speaker 3: and I think we are kind of willing to cut

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Speaker 3: him slack because everybody and I put myself and I thought,

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Speaker 3: well this guy, you know, it's one about twenty points

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Speaker 3: re election Florida. He seems to have something going for him,

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Speaker 3: you know, and he says, well, he's Trump, but a

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Speaker 3: competent in less splashy version, et cetera, et cetera. And

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Speaker 3: he's turned out to be not a mediocre candidate, a

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Speaker 3: really bad candidate. And again talked about this on the

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Speaker 3: show before Susie Wiles. She keeps sticking pins in that

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Speaker 3: Dessantra's No, I can tell you how you turn around.

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Speaker 4: He's getting off a bad story, you know, all this

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Speaker 4: dol News attorney don't.

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Speaker 3: I can't wait to read the Desanta's campaign book and

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Speaker 3: I can't law and have mercy better have five chapels.

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Speaker 4: I'm actually more interested in her. And again it's.

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Speaker 3: Just as a how does somebody go from the color

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Speaker 3: person of the golf channel to the dominant person in

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Speaker 3: a one hundred million dollar presidential campaign on a pretty

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Speaker 3: interesting story.

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Speaker 1: Do you think there's a chance at any of these

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Speaker 1: other candidates, Like, is there a place for a Tim

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Speaker 1: Scott to come out or is there a I mean,

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Speaker 1: I think Nikki Haley clearly, Oh.

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Speaker 4: Tim Scott, this is my favorite.

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Speaker 3: If you talk to like your friends who were publican

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Speaker 3: friends that you know they can't stand Trump, but they

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Speaker 3: hate Democrats and they're just hoping that somebody will come

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Speaker 3: along and it it can actually be for And it's

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Speaker 3: always that you listen to one of them, be it

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Speaker 3: interviewed well. I mentioned Tim Scott. He's got that kind

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Speaker 3: of Reagan Sonny optimism of the body, and you know

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Speaker 3: he'll be so prop piece of legislation is hit right.

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Speaker 3: I want to hope a president. I want to have

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Speaker 3: a beer. I want a guy that can relate to me.

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Speaker 3: I want somebody that knows the goddamn price of a

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Speaker 3: dozen eggs a quarter milk.

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Speaker 4: God that preaches celebraty. Can you really identify with him?

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Speaker 2: Is that what Tim Scott does?

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Speaker 4: Yes? No, yes, he.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. That may not be a winner.

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Speaker 3: My experience in Americana is it's not a winning issue

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Speaker 3: out there.

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Speaker 2: You know what.

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Speaker 3: Iut Egan too graphic about it. It seems a little

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Speaker 3: bit weird, honest with you. He talks about the virtues

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Speaker 3: of celebracy.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it may not be the winner.

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Speaker 4: It may not be the regular guy. You know, you guy,

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Speaker 4: you know what we're looking for.

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Speaker 3: It's been a remarkably the legislative record is kind of vapid,

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Speaker 3: and ineffective. He's safe, I can be. I'm really looking.

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Speaker 3: I'm taking a real good look at.

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Speaker 1: Him, right, I mean, I know Republican donors who are

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Speaker 1: just desperate for young Kin to jump.

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Speaker 3: In, right, you know, and y'all can say, you know,

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Speaker 3: he's Connors of the sweat of s and he's a

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Speaker 3: you know, bred governor of a mostly blue state. Just

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Speaker 3: hard to see them coming out and voting for Glenn Yelkin.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Do you think all of this energy goes to and

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Speaker 1: no labels goes to trying to get their party candidates

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Speaker 1: to peel off enough of the vote so that Trump wins.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Remember, now it's not just no labels. He's called Well West. Right,

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Speaker 3: if you said, well Biden, the Trump people said, well

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Speaker 3: Bob probably when that I don't have much of earth.

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Speaker 3: But it's not going to be Biden, b Trump going

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Speaker 3: to be Biden Trump, no labels, Cornell West and I'm

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Speaker 3: not sure I'm not more worried about Cornell West.

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Speaker 4: And I have no labels?

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Speaker 2: Can you say more?

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Speaker 4: Okay?

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Speaker 3: In twenty sixteen, Jill Stein ran as a Green Party candidate.

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Speaker 3: He got more votes in Pennsylvania, Michigan, in Wisconsin, and

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Speaker 3: Hillary lost Bot right. She was also funded by the Russians.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 4: She is now Cornell West's campaign manager.

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Speaker 3: In Cornell Jesus Or I said, attractive communicator. No one

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Speaker 3: even knew who she was or if she said something,

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Speaker 3: you wouldn't even recognize her voice. Cornell West has been

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Speaker 3: around forever, you know, to disaffected young people.

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Speaker 4: The guy kind of makes sense to him.

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Speaker 3: And you know, he's Stiller and he's a Black Ivyle

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Speaker 3: educated guy. He's, you know, got a real left wing

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Speaker 3: message and you know, calls everybody brother and sister, and

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Speaker 3: you know, to both parties. I just can see a

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Speaker 3: disaffected people going to his camp, even more than Joe Stein,

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Speaker 3: who caused us some unbelievable grief. I mean, same thing

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Speaker 3: in two thousand. I mean sorry, Ralph Nada won the

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Speaker 3: presidency majority w Bush given had a chance, and they

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Speaker 3: gonna do it again. I mean I said, they's a

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Speaker 3: good chance to do it again. It's a real, real problem.

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Speaker 3: So it's not going to be two people in the ring.

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Speaker 3: That that's not that's not it's going to come out.

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Speaker 3: It's going to be four people at least in the ring.

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Speaker 2: So do two seconds for me on the Senate map

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Speaker 2: right now?

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Speaker 3: All right, the city map is it's hard to see.

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Speaker 3: So we have a one boat fifty one point nine senate.

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Speaker 3: It's hard to see how we keep West Virginia. I

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Speaker 3: just really the next most problematical sea is probably Montana, right, Ohio,

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Speaker 3: I feel better about boast. There was some concern about

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Speaker 3: Senator Casey and if Dave McCormick ran, he was the

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Speaker 3: kind of moderate, the kind of Glennykin.

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Speaker 4: I don't.

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Speaker 3: I don't see McCormick honestly is I see him as

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Speaker 3: a receding threat. Things can go wrong in Nevada, they

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Speaker 3: can't go wrong in Arizona. Two best opportunities to pick up,

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Speaker 3: and I think that they're both better than anybody thinks.

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Speaker 3: I'm not going to sit here and tell you that

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Speaker 3: fifty to fifty or Texas and Florida. I am particularly

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Speaker 3: high on Florida if we can avoid a primary and

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Speaker 3: get a good candidate. Said, well, James, we've got be

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Speaker 3: bad there. In twenty twenty. We had the worst year

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Speaker 3: you could imagine in twenty twenty two.

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Speaker 4: Oh true.

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Speaker 3: The first thing the census is numbers are now, and

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Speaker 3: I think they're dropping by the day. Rick Scott has

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Speaker 3: never been popular, and he is on the front he's not.

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Speaker 3: He is the proponent of mostly getting the renaissance puriity

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Speaker 3: of medicare, raising tactors on hotel maids, and he's never

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Speaker 3: been popular. The other thing is, I cannot emphasize this enough.

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Speaker 3: The home insurance rake Florida are a major issue. Most

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Speaker 3: people don't live with that issue, they're with it like crazy.

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Speaker 3: So I think Florida is a real opportunity for a pickup.

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Speaker 3: And I think if Colin Allrod very high to call

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Speaker 3: and he's able to get through the Democratic nominating primary

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Speaker 3: process with a pretty united party, I mean Ted Cruz,

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Speaker 3: They're to be asking Ted Cruz every day about Trump

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Speaker 3: and his troubles. And there's nobody that's had a more

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Speaker 3: complicated history with Trump. You know, he called his wife

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Speaker 3: a hag, he called his daddy. And I told Colin

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Speaker 3: he played football at Baylor. I said, y'all, I could

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Speaker 3: remember that old song you can't get out.

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Speaker 4: Of talk like a man.

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Speaker 3: I just will you know, Ted Crews taking that little

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Speaker 3: rollerbag through the air out of jaxas and you know,

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Speaker 3: having Trump humiliate him and come back and then have

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Speaker 3: Colin hour to you know, sweat and mud all of

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Speaker 3: his space for a bail of football, you know, hormone.

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Speaker 3: But cruises is easy to pick on, so that's what

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Speaker 3: we're gonna have. Any pick up, you know, then you're

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Speaker 3: down to Indiana, which is not promising.

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Speaker 2: James Carveld, thank you so much for joining us.

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Speaker 4: I hope you'll come back absolutely.

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Speaker 2: Greg Walders is a reporter advice. Welcome to Fast Politics.

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Speaker 4: Greg, Yeah, thanks for having me.

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Speaker 2: This is a really interesting niche story.

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Speaker 1: Talk to us about Donald Trump's Georgia lawyer.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, so what interested me about this piece is that

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Speaker 5: Trump's lead attorney in Atlanta in the Rico case is

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Speaker 5: basically arguably the premier hip hop defense attorney in America.

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Speaker 5: He just has this gold plated roster of hip hop royalty.

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Speaker 5: We're talking Cardi b Migos, the Baby Walk, a flock

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Speaker 5: of Flame. Little Baby's also worked with some basketball stars

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Speaker 5: like Dennis Rodman, Shaquille O'Neil, and he has this really

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Speaker 5: strong bond with them that when you reach out and

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Speaker 5: talk to these big name clients, but that's it's a parrot.

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Speaker 5: They just it's weird. It's almost spiritual. We can talk

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Speaker 5: about that in a moment. But the other thing that's

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Speaker 5: really fascinating about him is he's, you know, he's got

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Speaker 5: very personally progressive politics. So he's not the kind of

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Speaker 5: attorney you would expect to be defending the Maga god

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Speaker 5: king in his power of need.

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Speaker 2: Explain to us about his politics.

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Speaker 5: Sure, I mean, he's progressive on some key issues. You know,

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Speaker 5: he's very pro choice. When the Supreme Court repealed Roe

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Speaker 5: versus Wade, he overturned Ropas's wad. He jumped in and

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Speaker 5: said that if anybody were prosecuted in Georgia for an

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Speaker 5: abortion law, he would defend them free of charge. He

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Speaker 5: has called Colin Kaepernick the greatest patriot in America for

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Speaker 5: taking a knee. He is very eloquent on the subject

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Speaker 5: of race and discrimination in the American justice system and

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Speaker 5: the need for reform. It's a topic very close to

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Speaker 5: his heart. He is very sympathetic to immigrants, and he's

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Speaker 5: been expressly critical of Trump in the past on Twitter,

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Speaker 5: in tweets that he has not taken down.

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Speaker 2: I kind of love this guy, I.

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Speaker 5: Think for scene saying this is important. Let me read

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Speaker 5: a couple of these tweets please. At one point, Trump

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Speaker 5: got into a beef with Lebron James, and we don't

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Speaker 5: have to go over what that was about. But he

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Speaker 5: tweeted the racist architect of fraudulent Trump University, criticizing Lebron

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Speaker 5: the founder of a free school for children, Potus pathetic.

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Speaker 5: Once again, it's not the end of it. That's not

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Speaker 5: at the end of it. So the other tweet is,

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Speaker 5: you may remember when Trump fired Bararra. Former SDNYUS attorney

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Speaker 5: Drew tweeted this the Potus firing as DNY US attorney

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Speaker 5: pre Berrara is a sign of fear in all caps

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Speaker 5: that he would aggressively investigate the stench hanging over this post.

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Speaker 5: This is the same guy who's about to go into

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Speaker 5: court in Atlanta and be like, my client did nothing wrong,

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Speaker 5: You're off.

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Speaker 1: Right, Wow, Why is he representing Trump if he's not?

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Speaker 1: And I like it seems to me like if we're

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Speaker 1: looking at Trump lawyers, and I'd love to broaden this

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Speaker 1: conversation out because Trump is a lot of legal exposure,

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Speaker 1: and he has a lot of lawyers, right, and he's

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Speaker 1: got some lawyers who will find themselves in terrible legal trouble,

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Speaker 1: like a Rudy Giuliani or a Ken cheesebro And.

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Speaker 5: You've got to ask yourself if you're joining this illustrious circle,

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Speaker 5: this Star Wars bar scene of weirdos, you know, why

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Speaker 5: are you.

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Speaker 4: Not going to be next?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? Why not?

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Speaker 5: I mean Drew is now representing Trump in a case

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Speaker 5: where Trump is his co defendants are also a bunch

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Speaker 5: of like lawyers who tried to do what he wants.

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Speaker 5: And I asked you about this. We had we had

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Speaker 5: a really good conversation about this, and he basically said, look,

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Speaker 5: if anyone tries to get me to do anything unethical,

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Speaker 5: I'm off the team.

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Speaker 1: Right If he's ideologically so opposed, this is just about mane.

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Speaker 5: So I don't think it is. Actually, I think it's

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Speaker 5: a lot more interesting than that. People are freedom of

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Speaker 5: up their own minds, of course, but Drew would swear

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Speaker 5: up and down that it's not. Obviously there's a lot

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Speaker 5: of money involved. It's not like he needs this money, right,

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Speaker 5: There's a lot of other opportunities for this guy to

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Speaker 5: go out and earn some money. He takes a very

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Speaker 5: interesting moral stance on this. If you talk to people

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Speaker 5: who you know, he comes from his background as having

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Speaker 5: a very strong regard for public defenders, I believe he

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Speaker 5: was a public defender. I'm not mistaken. At least one

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Speaker 5: of his kids is a public defender. He takes a

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Speaker 5: very strong progressive stance on the value, the public value

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Speaker 5: of defensive attorneys, and will argue that basically they need

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Speaker 5: to be about race, gender, religion, and politics. You can

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Speaker 5: make of this argument what you will, but after talking

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Speaker 5: to him quite a lot about it, my view is

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Speaker 5: that it's sincere that he believes it would be unethical

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Speaker 5: for him to reject a client because of their diverging politics.

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Speaker 5: And there's no mistake their politics diverge. I mean, this

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Speaker 5: is a guy who donated to the prosecutor who is

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Speaker 5: going after Trump.

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Speaker 1: Right, right, right, So interesting, This is like very unusual

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Speaker 1: for Trump world.

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Speaker 5: I feel like, yeah, one more thing that makes it

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Speaker 5: unusual for Trump world is, unlike a lot of other

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Speaker 5: attorneys who have agreed to work for Trump, Drew is

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Speaker 5: good at his job.

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Speaker 4: He's a good lawyer.

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Speaker 5: He's doing a lot of things lately that are weird

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Speaker 5: because he's been sucked into the gravitational pull of Trump world,

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Speaker 5: and so he's acting more like a Trump lawyer out.

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Speaker 5: But I tried to find people who would say bad

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Speaker 5: things about him as a lawyer in Atlanta, and I

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Speaker 5: couldn't do it. Wow, You call up a lawyer, a

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Speaker 5: lawyer in Atlanta and ask them about Drew, who like

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Speaker 5: knows him personally a reputation, and they'll tell you, Oh, yeah,

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Speaker 5: he's the best guy.

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Speaker 4: Drum could happen. He's good.

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Speaker 2: Explain to me what the hell's going on here?

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Speaker 5: I think there are a few things going on. I

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Speaker 5: think one of them is you could argue that he's

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Speaker 5: like drinking his own kool aid on this question of

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Speaker 5: the role of a defense attorney. But I think it

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Speaker 5: comes from a genuine place inside him, Like I think

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Speaker 5: he really buys it. And I think that in some ways,

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Speaker 5: like if I'm going to put on my shrinker's hat, right,

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Speaker 5: like try to reach inside his soul.

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Speaker 2: Which is what we're always interesting.

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Speaker 4: Which is like this podcast why not yet?

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Speaker 5: Yeah, So I think part of it is that this

439
00:23:47,160 --> 00:23:49,159
Speaker 5: is a way of proving, this is his way of

440
00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:51,320
Speaker 5: putting his money where his mouth is and say I

441
00:23:51,359 --> 00:23:54,080
Speaker 5: really need it. I'll even defend this guy who is

442
00:23:54,119 --> 00:23:56,800
Speaker 5: someone who disagrees with him about everything he stands for,

443
00:23:57,000 --> 00:24:00,800
Speaker 5: and he himself is on record calling a racist and

444
00:24:00,880 --> 00:24:03,720
Speaker 5: saying he should be investigated because of a stench, that

445
00:24:03,880 --> 00:24:07,960
Speaker 5: even that guy deserves competent criminal defense, and that he's

446
00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:10,560
Speaker 5: gonna and he's not going to refuse to do it.

447
00:24:10,680 --> 00:24:12,840
Speaker 5: So I think it's partly about proving that to himself.

448
00:24:13,160 --> 00:24:15,880
Speaker 5: I think there's also a part of him that likes

449
00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:16,440
Speaker 5: the limelight.

450
00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:18,840
Speaker 4: You know. I think I don't think it's the money,

451
00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:19,879
Speaker 4: it's the fae, you know.

452
00:24:20,280 --> 00:24:23,399
Speaker 5: I think there's part of him that that does revel in, like,

453
00:24:23,640 --> 00:24:26,800
Speaker 5: you know, stepping inside the aura of some of these

454
00:24:26,800 --> 00:24:27,480
Speaker 5: famous people.

455
00:24:27,640 --> 00:24:28,200
Speaker 4: It's excited.

456
00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:32,800
Speaker 1: Tell us some of the famous musicians and athletes that

457
00:24:32,840 --> 00:24:33,560
Speaker 1: he's represented.

458
00:24:33,760 --> 00:24:37,480
Speaker 5: Sure, so you know, we're talking Cardi B, We're talking migos,

459
00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:40,560
Speaker 5: We're talking Gucci Mayne. Gucci Maine was actually the guy

460
00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:44,400
Speaker 5: who kind of like brought him into this world. He's

461
00:24:44,440 --> 00:24:46,560
Speaker 5: known as the hashtag billion dollar lawyer.

462
00:24:46,720 --> 00:24:49,240
Speaker 1: So is that because he costs a billion dollars or

463
00:24:49,280 --> 00:24:51,120
Speaker 1: because he gets you a billion dollars?

464
00:24:51,600 --> 00:24:53,200
Speaker 4: Neither He doesn't do either of those things.

465
00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:54,760
Speaker 2: So why is he called that?

466
00:24:55,119 --> 00:24:57,280
Speaker 4: It's pure hip hop hyperbole.

467
00:24:57,480 --> 00:24:57,840
Speaker 2: Okay.

468
00:24:58,280 --> 00:24:59,720
Speaker 4: At one point, I forget who it was.

469
00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:02,800
Speaker 5: There was some rapper who he like a lot of

470
00:25:02,800 --> 00:25:04,840
Speaker 5: the stuff about him is something that just some rappers

471
00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:07,159
Speaker 5: said that, like they thought it was funny and they

472
00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:07,720
Speaker 5: kind of ran.

473
00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:10,159
Speaker 4: But he went to see some forget who it was.

474
00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:11,560
Speaker 5: It would be a better story if I can remember

475
00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:13,720
Speaker 5: which rapper it was, but anyway, right, it was some

476
00:25:13,800 --> 00:25:15,880
Speaker 5: rapper I don't know that well. One of his early clients,

477
00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:18,760
Speaker 5: he showed up at the case and the guy said, Man,

478
00:25:18,760 --> 00:25:20,600
Speaker 5: I'm gonna be fine. I got my billion dollar lawyer

479
00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:23,000
Speaker 5: right here. And it just stuck and that was a

480
00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:25,080
Speaker 5: billion dollars. He's not worth a billion dollars. I asked

481
00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:27,280
Speaker 5: him that explicitly. He does not cost a billion dollars.

482
00:25:27,320 --> 00:25:31,400
Speaker 5: No one's getting a billion dollars. There's no dollars involved.

483
00:25:32,119 --> 00:25:33,320
Speaker 5: It's just bread.

484
00:25:33,920 --> 00:25:35,960
Speaker 2: So so he liked celebrity.

485
00:25:36,359 --> 00:25:38,719
Speaker 1: Is some of it too, besides the fact that he

486
00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:40,960
Speaker 1: believes in these tenants of law.

487
00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:43,120
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, I think if you kind of put

488
00:25:43,119 --> 00:25:44,840
Speaker 5: those two things together, like why not.

489
00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:49,440
Speaker 1: Right, it's so interesting. But he has donated to Fanny Wellis.

490
00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:52,359
Speaker 1: I would love you to talk for a minute a

491
00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:55,720
Speaker 1: little bit about Fanny Wellis if you can, because I

492
00:25:55,760 --> 00:26:00,439
Speaker 1: feel like is nineteen defendants, it's this enormous case she

493
00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:05,400
Speaker 1: has successfully used Rico before. I mean, this is very

494
00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:07,760
Speaker 1: different than some of Trump's other legal cases.

495
00:26:08,119 --> 00:26:10,800
Speaker 5: It is, so I should say at the outset, I

496
00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:13,280
Speaker 5: have not interviewed Fannie Willis, so most of what I

497
00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:15,480
Speaker 5: know about her is by talking to lawyers who have

498
00:26:15,800 --> 00:26:18,720
Speaker 5: worked with her come up against her. I have tried interviewer,

499
00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:22,360
Speaker 5: but her people have been pretty guarded about that so far.

500
00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:26,720
Speaker 5: So I can tell you what I've learned through you know,

501
00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:31,320
Speaker 5: ulterior journalistic means she is tough man. She is tough.

502
00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:35,359
Speaker 5: She's the daughter of a black panther. She is someone

503
00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:37,960
Speaker 5: who you know, was elected to this job in the

504
00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:42,800
Speaker 5: same election that Trump is calling fraudulent and started basically

505
00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:45,240
Speaker 5: in the beginning of January twenty twenty one. And so

506
00:26:46,119 --> 00:26:50,320
Speaker 5: like the phone call, the infamous phone call erupted during

507
00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:54,359
Speaker 5: her first week on the job, and she jumped into it,

508
00:26:54,680 --> 00:26:59,600
Speaker 5: I think it's important to remember in this context the

509
00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:07,360
Speaker 5: sheer audacity of what she's doing. We're talking about a overworked, overstretched, underfunded,

510
00:27:07,520 --> 00:27:10,720
Speaker 5: understaffed office, and if you look closely, you can see

511
00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:13,200
Speaker 5: that kind of tension bursting at the seams.

512
00:27:13,040 --> 00:27:16,600
Speaker 2: With the early thing that they released online. Right, is

513
00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:17,480
Speaker 2: that what you're thinking.

514
00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:19,400
Speaker 5: Of yeah, you know, and not just that you've seen

515
00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:22,040
Speaker 5: some departures from the office, Like it's not we're not

516
00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:26,320
Speaker 5: talking about a juggernaut, right, We're talking about like a

517
00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:29,600
Speaker 5: little engine that maybe can right. You know, it's not

518
00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:33,240
Speaker 5: hard to see signs of disorganization and dysfunction coming out

519
00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:34,040
Speaker 5: of that office.

520
00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:38,000
Speaker 1: And what we're talking about is that the office accidentally

521
00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:43,040
Speaker 1: posted the charging document before it was ready and then

522
00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:45,120
Speaker 1: they took it down and that was a little bit

523
00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:47,359
Speaker 1: of an embarrassment.

524
00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:49,240
Speaker 5: That's right, And I think that if you I don't

525
00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:51,439
Speaker 5: think that's going to be the last time this happens,

526
00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:53,879
Speaker 5: you know, I think And another example in the past

527
00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:57,320
Speaker 5: was was the four person of the Special Purpose Grand

528
00:27:57,400 --> 00:28:01,199
Speaker 5: Jury that Fawdy Willison paneled to investigate Trump over the

529
00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:03,800
Speaker 5: past year, came out and just made a bunch of

530
00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:05,399
Speaker 5: just all over.

531
00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:07,359
Speaker 4: The place statements to the press.

532
00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:07,840
Speaker 2: Right.

533
00:28:07,960 --> 00:28:10,200
Speaker 1: That was that woman who went on all the shows

534
00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:11,600
Speaker 1: and seemed kind of nuts.

535
00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:14,440
Speaker 5: Yeah, and you know that was not really a good

536
00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:17,560
Speaker 5: look for the office, since she was talking about having

537
00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:20,400
Speaker 5: ice cream parties with the prosecutors and stuff like that.

538
00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:23,199
Speaker 5: So I mean this is you know, you almost have

539
00:28:23,320 --> 00:28:28,280
Speaker 5: the feeling of the office like it's just not a

540
00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:30,920
Speaker 5: tightly run ship. As I started to say, I think

541
00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:33,320
Speaker 5: that they are doing something incredibly ambitious.

542
00:28:33,359 --> 00:28:33,560
Speaker 4: Here.

543
00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:37,960
Speaker 5: The other local prosecutor pursuing this is the foremost local

544
00:28:37,960 --> 00:28:42,160
Speaker 5: prosecutatorial office in the country, the Manhattan District Attorney's Office,

545
00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:46,080
Speaker 5: and they have a much smaller, tightly wound case, about

546
00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:49,760
Speaker 5: a few documents here and there. Her case is sprawling,

547
00:28:50,120 --> 00:28:53,120
Speaker 5: you know, even compared to Jack Smith's democracy case. Jack

548
00:28:53,160 --> 00:28:56,400
Speaker 5: Smith's case is like a haikup. It's just so tight.

549
00:28:57,000 --> 00:28:59,640
Speaker 5: One person he's going to get try to get this done,

550
00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:03,960
Speaker 5: his book possible. Her case is like the Odyssey. It's

551
00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:08,920
Speaker 5: got everything in it. It's epic poetry, and it's all

552
00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:11,560
Speaker 5: of the above. It's almost like Jack Smith's case is

553
00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:13,560
Speaker 5: the one that might get there before the election, and

554
00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:17,040
Speaker 5: then she's got the safety case that can't be pardoned

555
00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:21,920
Speaker 5: away by whoever wins the White House next and catches

556
00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:23,200
Speaker 5: like all the players.

557
00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:25,520
Speaker 1: Do you think that they're going to be capable of

558
00:29:25,560 --> 00:29:27,560
Speaker 1: doing this? Are you worried about that? I mean, I

559
00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:30,320
Speaker 1: think she has a pretty good track record, doesn't she.

560
00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:32,600
Speaker 5: She does have a track record for getting convictions. I

561
00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:35,800
Speaker 5: think she is very dogged, very determined, and very tough.

562
00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:39,320
Speaker 5: I would not want her prosecuting me. I do think

563
00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:44,959
Speaker 5: that she's got just a colossal task and not the

564
00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:49,680
Speaker 5: world's biggest office and staff to handle what they have done.

565
00:29:49,800 --> 00:29:52,040
Speaker 5: The dog has caught the ice cream truck here and

566
00:29:52,120 --> 00:29:55,640
Speaker 5: now has to figure out what to do. So should

567
00:29:55,760 --> 00:29:58,120
Speaker 5: there be concern about whether they can get it done,

568
00:29:58,520 --> 00:30:01,840
Speaker 5: I would say yes, we are just in historically totally

569
00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:07,080
Speaker 5: uncharted waters here. I think indictment is very impressive. Clearly

570
00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:10,720
Speaker 5: they did a massive investigation. Part of the context here

571
00:30:11,080 --> 00:30:13,840
Speaker 5: that may not be so apparent to people who aren't

572
00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:16,600
Speaker 5: living in Atlanta or following it closely is that. And

573
00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:18,400
Speaker 5: one of the reasons she was elected in the first

574
00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:23,239
Speaker 5: place is that during the pandemic's Fulton County built up

575
00:30:23,280 --> 00:30:27,760
Speaker 5: this massive backlaw of chases. There are people who wait

576
00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:31,240
Speaker 5: in the local jail at nine oh one Rice Street,

577
00:30:31,240 --> 00:30:33,240
Speaker 5: which is you know famous in local hip hop down

578
00:30:33,280 --> 00:30:37,600
Speaker 5: there as kind of both this. It's the jail cell,

579
00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:40,960
Speaker 5: and it's where people do their first appearance and where

580
00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:43,280
Speaker 5: Trump may appear soon. People go in there for months

581
00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:45,680
Speaker 5: without even being charged, before they can even be charged

582
00:30:45,680 --> 00:30:52,160
Speaker 5: with a crime, and conditions are notoriously bad. People die

583
00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:55,680
Speaker 5: in they're not infrequently. There's just a it's a bad situation,

584
00:30:56,040 --> 00:30:58,080
Speaker 5: and so she was kind of elected to clean that up.

585
00:30:58,360 --> 00:31:00,840
Speaker 5: And then after she comes into office, she takes over

586
00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:04,880
Speaker 5: this huge case and you know, circling back to like

587
00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:07,040
Speaker 5: Drew and his support for her, that was where it

588
00:31:07,080 --> 00:31:09,840
Speaker 5: came from, right, He thought she was someone who could

589
00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:11,480
Speaker 5: try to help clear that up. I mean, she was

590
00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:14,719
Speaker 5: seen as relatively the progressive take. She's a progressive guy.

591
00:31:14,760 --> 00:31:15,320
Speaker 4: It makes sense.

592
00:31:15,520 --> 00:31:18,440
Speaker 5: Then came the infamous phone call heard around the world

593
00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:22,080
Speaker 5: and the Trump just needs to find eleven, seven hundred

594
00:31:22,080 --> 00:31:24,320
Speaker 5: and eighty votes and everything changed.

595
00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:28,480
Speaker 1: So interesting. You've written about Rudy Giuliani. We've all written

596
00:31:28,520 --> 00:31:31,040
Speaker 1: about Rudy Giuliani. I feel like he's a holdover from

597
00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:35,680
Speaker 1: last season. Do you feel like Rudy Giuliani could theoretically

598
00:31:35,800 --> 00:31:39,000
Speaker 1: roll on Trump? I mean, does that seem he needs money,

599
00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:40,680
Speaker 1: he's in trouble.

600
00:31:40,760 --> 00:31:42,080
Speaker 2: I mean, are you seeing that.

601
00:31:42,360 --> 00:31:46,680
Speaker 5: So with the caveat here that the last few years

602
00:31:46,880 --> 00:31:51,400
Speaker 5: have been very surprising, so anything can happen. I guess

603
00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:54,360
Speaker 5: with that to the side, my reaction is no, I

604
00:31:54,360 --> 00:31:58,040
Speaker 5: don't think that's fawsible For a few reasons. I think

605
00:31:58,440 --> 00:32:02,120
Speaker 5: One of them is what kind of deal could Rudy get.

606
00:32:02,280 --> 00:32:05,200
Speaker 5: What could Rudy tell us about Trump that would be

607
00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:08,600
Speaker 5: so vital to the prosecution that he would get his

608
00:32:08,680 --> 00:32:13,360
Speaker 5: sentence reduced, you know, from a sentence that is supposed

609
00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:15,959
Speaker 5: to be a minimum of five years that's actually probably

610
00:32:15,960 --> 00:32:17,880
Speaker 5: over reported a little bit. I think the judges do

611
00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:20,240
Speaker 5: have more leeway than that down there. But that's a

612
00:32:20,280 --> 00:32:22,440
Speaker 5: lot of time. He's going to be eighty years old

613
00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:25,120
Speaker 5: pretty soon, like he's seventy nine. He take any eighty

614
00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:26,840
Speaker 5: year old, you know, and tell them they're going to

615
00:32:26,840 --> 00:32:29,800
Speaker 5: do two years in the local penitentiary. I mean, that's

616
00:32:30,120 --> 00:32:33,520
Speaker 5: you're gambling with a life sentence there. So what amount

617
00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:36,960
Speaker 5: of time would he accept versus the possibility of beating it?

618
00:32:37,040 --> 00:32:39,560
Speaker 5: You know, I don't know why he would. The second

619
00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:42,600
Speaker 5: thing is that if you're the prosecutor, I don't know.

620
00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:45,840
Speaker 5: I guess maybe you'd be tempted to score that easy victory.

621
00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:48,280
Speaker 5: But so much of what he did was in public,

622
00:32:48,400 --> 00:32:50,680
Speaker 5: and he's like the number two guy on the roster.

623
00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:54,200
Speaker 5: Argue with late Am or Meadows. When you flip people,

624
00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:56,840
Speaker 5: you want them to flip against someone bigger than that, right,

625
00:32:57,200 --> 00:33:00,920
Speaker 5: would she want to Flip or Julia with a deal

626
00:33:00,960 --> 00:33:04,200
Speaker 5: that would let him not go to prison. I mean,

627
00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:07,640
Speaker 5: I don't know. I don't really see the strong urge

628
00:33:07,840 --> 00:33:10,680
Speaker 5: to get to a deal with Rudy on either side.

629
00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:14,000
Speaker 5: That's just my my hot take that you know. Then again,

630
00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:17,640
Speaker 5: as I said, the twenty twenties have been nothing if

631
00:33:17,640 --> 00:33:20,640
Speaker 5: not surprising, so maybe I doubt.

632
00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:22,960
Speaker 2: It so interesting. Thank you so much. I hope you'll

633
00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:23,360
Speaker 2: come back.

634
00:33:23,480 --> 00:33:25,120
Speaker 4: Hey, I'd love to. This is fun.

635
00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:30,800
Speaker 1: Hi, it's Mollie and I am wildly excited that for

636
00:33:30,840 --> 00:33:35,400
Speaker 1: the first time, Fast Politics, the show you're listening to

637
00:33:35,800 --> 00:33:38,720
Speaker 1: right now, is going to have merch for sale over

638
00:33:38,920 --> 00:33:44,080
Speaker 1: at shop dot fastpoliticspod dot com.

639
00:33:44,520 --> 00:33:47,440
Speaker 2: You can now buy shirts.

640
00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:51,400
Speaker 1: Hats, hoodies, and toe bags with our incredible designs.

641
00:33:51,840 --> 00:33:52,640
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642
00:33:52,560 --> 00:33:56,200
Speaker 1: Cries to spread the word about our podcast and get

643
00:33:56,200 --> 00:34:01,120
Speaker 1: a tow bag with my adorable lee so the Rescue

644
00:34:01,160 --> 00:34:05,760
Speaker 1: Puppy on it. And now you can grab this merchandise

645
00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:14,640
Speaker 1: only at shop dot fastpoliticspod dot com. Thanks for your support.

646
00:34:16,600 --> 00:34:20,359
Speaker 1: Drew Harwell is a reporter of covering technology at The

647
00:34:20,600 --> 00:34:21,440
Speaker 1: Washington Post.

648
00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:23,960
Speaker 2: Welcome to Fast Politics.

649
00:34:23,560 --> 00:34:24,799
Speaker 4: Drew, Thanks for having me.

650
00:34:25,120 --> 00:34:27,760
Speaker 2: Your beat is Internet media? Is it media?

651
00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:32,080
Speaker 6: Internet, explain discuss I just cover anything on the Internet

652
00:34:32,080 --> 00:34:34,520
Speaker 6: that seems interesting at the time. A lot of it

653
00:34:34,600 --> 00:34:38,520
Speaker 6: lately has been, you know, Elon Musk taking over the

654
00:34:38,680 --> 00:34:41,359
Speaker 6: company formerly known as Twitter. But a lot of it

655
00:34:41,400 --> 00:34:44,440
Speaker 6: is just how you know, politics and media on the

656
00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:47,400
Speaker 6: Internet intersect. So a lot of it is Trump and

657
00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:49,799
Speaker 6: a lot of it is Elon, TikTok, all that sort

658
00:34:49,840 --> 00:34:50,520
Speaker 6: of fun stuff.

659
00:34:50,640 --> 00:34:57,080
Speaker 1: So let's talk about Elon Mosk. Incredible stuff here. You

660
00:34:57,120 --> 00:35:02,040
Speaker 1: had a scoop yesterday, the champion free speech. He has

661
00:35:02,120 --> 00:35:04,560
Speaker 1: an interesting way of dealing with things he doesn't like.

662
00:35:05,120 --> 00:35:09,880
Speaker 6: Yeah, and if you're using Twitter, sorry X, and you

663
00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:12,560
Speaker 6: want to click on a link to a story, you

664
00:35:12,640 --> 00:35:16,040
Speaker 6: expect to go immediately through to that other story. That's

665
00:35:16,080 --> 00:35:18,840
Speaker 6: how it has always worked. That is how it works

666
00:35:18,880 --> 00:35:22,640
Speaker 6: for pretty much every website. Except we started running some

667
00:35:22,719 --> 00:35:25,759
Speaker 6: tests yesterday and found that there were a pool of

668
00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:29,440
Speaker 6: websites that actually get a five second delay. So when

669
00:35:29,480 --> 00:35:31,600
Speaker 6: you click on it, it just goes to gray for

670
00:35:31,719 --> 00:35:34,720
Speaker 6: five seconds. It wastes your time for five seconds before

671
00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:38,719
Speaker 6: you can actually access the link. Twitter X does that

672
00:35:38,920 --> 00:35:42,400
Speaker 6: now or did that yesterday? When we tested for The

673
00:35:42,440 --> 00:35:50,759
Speaker 6: New York Times. Reuter's Facebook Instagram, Threads, Blue Sky, and Substack,

674
00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:53,520
Speaker 6: and the connective tissue on all of those is all

675
00:35:53,560 --> 00:35:57,360
Speaker 6: of those websites have upset Elon Musk to some degree.

676
00:35:57,760 --> 00:35:58,680
Speaker 4: He has gone on a.

677
00:35:58,640 --> 00:36:01,440
Speaker 6: Tirade against you know and the New York Times and

678
00:36:01,480 --> 00:36:05,960
Speaker 6: Reuters for doing accurate reporting that has made him look bad.

679
00:36:06,239 --> 00:36:11,400
Speaker 6: He's obviously been in this long suffering slap match with

680
00:36:12,120 --> 00:36:15,720
Speaker 6: Mark Zuckerbird, who owns you know, Facebook, Instagram and threads,

681
00:36:16,120 --> 00:36:19,560
Speaker 6: bluse Guy and substack or our Twitter rivals. So here

682
00:36:19,760 --> 00:36:23,120
Speaker 6: what we saw was, you know, Elon Musk appears to

683
00:36:23,200 --> 00:36:27,760
Speaker 6: be behind the scenes pushing a button to waste everybody's time,

684
00:36:28,200 --> 00:36:32,000
Speaker 6: slow the traffic to all of these properties that he

685
00:36:32,560 --> 00:36:36,200
Speaker 6: personally dislikes, and do it in this really secretive way

686
00:36:36,280 --> 00:36:39,000
Speaker 6: so people would not even realize what was happening, and

687
00:36:39,040 --> 00:36:40,600
Speaker 6: they might click a link and it might go gray

688
00:36:40,600 --> 00:36:42,279
Speaker 6: and they might say, Okay, well, I don't want to

689
00:36:42,320 --> 00:36:44,720
Speaker 6: go there anyway, and that can have a real impact

690
00:36:44,880 --> 00:36:47,600
Speaker 6: on the website because they lose traffic and add revenue.

691
00:36:47,640 --> 00:36:50,799
Speaker 6: So it was a very secretive, malicious thing to do.

692
00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:53,719
Speaker 6: And we don't have any evidence that this was just

693
00:36:53,760 --> 00:36:57,160
Speaker 6: sort of a technical clitch because it only isolated these websites.

694
00:36:57,680 --> 00:36:58,239
Speaker 2: I want you to.

695
00:36:58,239 --> 00:37:00,919
Speaker 1: Get to the punchline here, which is as soon as

696
00:37:00,960 --> 00:37:02,439
Speaker 1: you reported about it.

697
00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:06,319
Speaker 6: M yeah, a couple hours after we reported on it,

698
00:37:06,600 --> 00:37:10,200
Speaker 6: the delay magically started to disappear. We could actually see

699
00:37:10,239 --> 00:37:12,520
Speaker 6: it in the test. This delay that was stuck at

700
00:37:12,520 --> 00:37:15,359
Speaker 6: around five seconds just started going away, and you could

701
00:37:15,440 --> 00:37:18,279
Speaker 6: magically get to that website. So very clearly, I mean,

702
00:37:18,560 --> 00:37:22,400
Speaker 6: X and Elon never never addressed it in any meaningful way,

703
00:37:22,880 --> 00:37:23,759
Speaker 6: but once.

704
00:37:23,520 --> 00:37:25,319
Speaker 4: We can get reported on it.

705
00:37:27,280 --> 00:37:30,080
Speaker 6: No, and Elon actually blocked my emails when I started

706
00:37:30,080 --> 00:37:32,319
Speaker 6: asking about it, you know, so this is you know,

707
00:37:32,400 --> 00:37:35,080
Speaker 6: from anybody else, it would be almost too petty to believe.

708
00:37:35,280 --> 00:37:37,319
Speaker 4: But this is Elon Musk we're dealing with. This is

709
00:37:37,400 --> 00:37:39,240
Speaker 4: this is just kind of his playbook.

710
00:37:39,120 --> 00:37:43,360
Speaker 1: Right, No, I mean it is super interesting to me, Like,

711
00:37:43,880 --> 00:37:47,200
Speaker 1: I think it's interesting because this kind of thing, there's

712
00:37:47,239 --> 00:37:50,600
Speaker 1: always been so much paranoia about Twitter from the left,

713
00:37:50,719 --> 00:37:52,800
Speaker 1: first from the right, and now I think from the

714
00:37:52,880 --> 00:37:56,600
Speaker 1: left this paranoia may actually be warranted. This story is

715
00:37:56,680 --> 00:38:01,239
Speaker 1: proof that they're in there monkeying around, right. So I

716
00:38:01,320 --> 00:38:04,240
Speaker 1: wanted to ask you, like it used to be, people

717
00:38:04,280 --> 00:38:07,480
Speaker 1: would say, you'll remember the days of old when Twitter

718
00:38:07,600 --> 00:38:10,040
Speaker 1: was like a normal company run like a normal company,

719
00:38:10,080 --> 00:38:12,759
Speaker 1: people would always say Conservatives would always say, I'm being

720
00:38:12,840 --> 00:38:15,520
Speaker 1: shadow banned, I'm being throttled.

721
00:38:16,400 --> 00:38:17,640
Speaker 2: Was that happening then?

722
00:38:18,000 --> 00:38:21,760
Speaker 1: And also if it was happening, then is it happening

723
00:38:21,800 --> 00:38:23,160
Speaker 1: now in the other way or.

724
00:38:23,160 --> 00:38:24,480
Speaker 2: Is there just not enough evidence?

725
00:38:24,840 --> 00:38:27,359
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean that's the hilarious point of all of this. So,

726
00:38:27,440 --> 00:38:30,120
Speaker 6: back before Elon had bought it, Yeah, like you said,

727
00:38:30,160 --> 00:38:33,600
Speaker 6: there was the constant griping about shadow banning. Anytime, you know,

728
00:38:33,840 --> 00:38:37,120
Speaker 6: someone typically on the right would tweet something that they

729
00:38:37,120 --> 00:38:40,120
Speaker 6: felt like didn't get enough likes or retweets, they would say,

730
00:38:40,480 --> 00:38:42,760
Speaker 6: oh lord, the shadow banning is happening again.

731
00:38:43,320 --> 00:38:45,640
Speaker 4: The liberals in Silicon Valley are out to get me.

732
00:38:46,280 --> 00:38:46,480
Speaker 4: You know.

733
00:38:46,560 --> 00:38:49,840
Speaker 6: There was never really any systemic proof of any of that,

734
00:38:50,120 --> 00:38:53,920
Speaker 6: and actually the research ended up finding that conservative viewpoints

735
00:38:53,920 --> 00:38:57,760
Speaker 6: on the platform got more attention and they were actually

736
00:38:57,960 --> 00:39:01,080
Speaker 6: less suppressed. But that was the reason and why Elon

737
00:39:01,160 --> 00:39:03,759
Speaker 6: took it over to begin with. He felt like there

738
00:39:03,840 --> 00:39:08,040
Speaker 6: was this massive injustice happening. Now once he's taking it over,

739
00:39:08,320 --> 00:39:12,840
Speaker 6: instead of you know, balancing out the force and making

740
00:39:12,880 --> 00:39:15,960
Speaker 6: it so there's no shadow banding happening. To anybody we

741
00:39:16,000 --> 00:39:19,920
Speaker 6: can actually tell there's legitimate, you know, behind the scenes

742
00:39:20,000 --> 00:39:23,759
Speaker 6: algorithmic tinkering happening in the other direction against all of

743
00:39:23,800 --> 00:39:27,120
Speaker 6: the So, you know, this just again belies the whole

744
00:39:27,400 --> 00:39:31,480
Speaker 6: free speech absolutist claim that Elon Musk has always set

745
00:39:31,480 --> 00:39:34,960
Speaker 6: it out himself. And this, you know, these throttlings that

746
00:39:35,040 --> 00:39:38,960
Speaker 6: he did yesterday, Like it's hard to even remember all

747
00:39:39,000 --> 00:39:41,279
Speaker 6: of the examples he has put together in the last

748
00:39:41,280 --> 00:39:44,319
Speaker 6: twelve months of just taking down things he disagrees with.

749
00:39:44,440 --> 00:39:47,800
Speaker 6: Of course, he took down the elon jet account that

750
00:39:47,920 --> 00:39:51,359
Speaker 6: tracks his private jet. He banned journalists who covered that,

751
00:39:51,480 --> 00:39:55,520
Speaker 6: including me and many others for reporting on it. These

752
00:39:55,520 --> 00:39:57,920
Speaker 6: are not things that you would expect from like a

753
00:39:58,600 --> 00:40:02,400
Speaker 6: First Amendment free speed champion. But this is Elon musk playground.

754
00:40:02,440 --> 00:40:05,480
Speaker 6: He has decided that it's his rule and he can

755
00:40:05,520 --> 00:40:07,000
Speaker 6: just sort of do whatever he wants. And hey, he

756
00:40:07,040 --> 00:40:09,880
Speaker 6: paid forty four billion for it, and he's getting his

757
00:40:09,920 --> 00:40:10,520
Speaker 6: money out of it.

758
00:40:10,760 --> 00:40:15,120
Speaker 1: I read reporting that said that actually, some of these

759
00:40:15,200 --> 00:40:21,000
Speaker 1: autocratic governments like Saudiowabia and Turkey, and I can't exactly

760
00:40:21,040 --> 00:40:24,080
Speaker 1: remember who, but the people we don't generally think of

761
00:40:24,120 --> 00:40:28,000
Speaker 1: as the good guys, India has an autocrat as a

762
00:40:28,080 --> 00:40:31,880
Speaker 1: leader right now. That some of those places, and again

763
00:40:31,960 --> 00:40:34,160
Speaker 1: I can't remember exactly what countries, so I don't want

764
00:40:34,160 --> 00:40:38,000
Speaker 1: to be wrong here, but that they had actually asked

765
00:40:38,239 --> 00:40:41,920
Speaker 1: Elon to throttle some of the content and that he

766
00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:43,239
Speaker 1: had gone along with it.

767
00:40:43,480 --> 00:40:46,239
Speaker 6: Yeah, that has happened. That you mentioned India, that was

768
00:40:46,520 --> 00:40:51,160
Speaker 6: specifically one of the bigger examples. Governments were asking x

769
00:40:51,520 --> 00:40:54,840
Speaker 6: slash Twitter to remove specific tweets that they didn't like

770
00:40:55,000 --> 00:40:59,960
Speaker 6: from political advocates, dissidents, just people they didn't want on

771
00:41:00,080 --> 00:41:02,680
Speaker 6: the platform. And Twitter has never been a perfect company.

772
00:41:02,880 --> 00:41:06,520
Speaker 6: It has always been problematic. But before Elon took it over,

773
00:41:06,840 --> 00:41:10,239
Speaker 6: it was known for kind of fighting these battles a

774
00:41:10,239 --> 00:41:13,000
Speaker 6: little bit, either you know, from a legal standpoint in

775
00:41:13,080 --> 00:41:15,800
Speaker 6: court or just you know, the officials in the company

776
00:41:15,840 --> 00:41:18,640
Speaker 6: saying no, we have all these rules. Elon has kind

777
00:41:18,640 --> 00:41:23,440
Speaker 6: of bent over backwards to placate these governments by removing

778
00:41:23,560 --> 00:41:25,920
Speaker 6: this content. And he, you know, when he has been

779
00:41:25,960 --> 00:41:28,560
Speaker 6: called out for this, hey, not very free speech, he

780
00:41:28,760 --> 00:41:30,040
Speaker 6: has said, well, what are.

781
00:41:29,960 --> 00:41:33,040
Speaker 4: You going to do? You know, we want we.

782
00:41:32,640 --> 00:41:36,320
Speaker 6: Want clients in India. The government's asking us very nicely,

783
00:41:37,000 --> 00:41:39,400
Speaker 6: who are we to say. And so you know, again,

784
00:41:39,840 --> 00:41:43,000
Speaker 6: it's not just free speech when it's speech you like

785
00:41:43,760 --> 00:41:47,120
Speaker 6: or it's easy for you. Elon just sort of has

786
00:41:47,239 --> 00:41:51,320
Speaker 6: used the free speech idea as a cudgel really against

787
00:41:51,360 --> 00:41:54,680
Speaker 6: the ideas he doesn't seem to like. And then when

788
00:41:54,680 --> 00:41:57,359
Speaker 6: a government comes along and asks for that. So, yeah,

789
00:41:57,360 --> 00:41:59,840
Speaker 6: it's been a it's been a big frustration. You know,

790
00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:02,000
Speaker 6: we see these problems here in America, but we don't

791
00:42:02,000 --> 00:42:04,759
Speaker 6: even really know the extent of the problem overseas, where

792
00:42:04,880 --> 00:42:07,400
Speaker 6: you know, Twitter remains still pretty influential.

793
00:42:07,920 --> 00:42:10,280
Speaker 2: It's such an interesting bit of projection.

794
00:42:10,440 --> 00:42:14,839
Speaker 1: So basically all of the things that Elon accused old

795
00:42:14,840 --> 00:42:17,279
Speaker 1: Twitter of doing, he is now doing at.

796
00:42:17,480 --> 00:42:22,440
Speaker 6: X basically, yeah, and inventing new and surprising ways to

797
00:42:22,920 --> 00:42:23,480
Speaker 6: do it right.

798
00:42:23,560 --> 00:42:24,960
Speaker 4: And you know, and we've.

799
00:42:24,760 --> 00:42:28,040
Speaker 6: Seen a couple of weeks ago there was an account,

800
00:42:28,200 --> 00:42:31,400
Speaker 6: it's kind of like a far right account, that posted

801
00:42:31,960 --> 00:42:36,680
Speaker 6: an image of child sexual abuse. This is the kind

802
00:42:36,719 --> 00:42:40,240
Speaker 6: of thing that would never have it allowed on the platform.

803
00:42:40,320 --> 00:42:42,399
Speaker 6: That has always been you know, the company has always

804
00:42:42,440 --> 00:42:44,879
Speaker 6: had we have zero tolerance. If you post that, we're

805
00:42:44,920 --> 00:42:47,880
Speaker 6: reporting it to the authorities. Your band, you're out of

806
00:42:47,880 --> 00:42:52,320
Speaker 6: here as well. It should be right for child pornography. Yes,

807
00:42:52,560 --> 00:42:55,319
Speaker 6: everyone would expect that, everyone wants that. The industry just

808
00:42:55,400 --> 00:42:58,200
Speaker 6: operates like that, and so it was really kind of

809
00:42:58,360 --> 00:43:00,000
Speaker 6: you know, even for the people who it's hard to

810
00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:04,120
Speaker 6: surprise around Twitter anymore, including me, it was surprising when

811
00:43:04,480 --> 00:43:08,800
Speaker 6: Elon allowed this far right influencer to come back on Twitter.

812
00:43:08,880 --> 00:43:12,759
Speaker 6: They deleted the post with the image. They basically gave

813
00:43:12,880 --> 00:43:15,359
Speaker 6: less than a slap on the wrist. And that far

814
00:43:15,440 --> 00:43:19,000
Speaker 6: right influencer has remained on Twitter and is now getting

815
00:43:19,040 --> 00:43:21,680
Speaker 6: paid through the ad revenue share. So got like two

816
00:43:21,719 --> 00:43:25,160
Speaker 6: thousand dollars from Twitter just for you know, outrage and

817
00:43:25,440 --> 00:43:28,400
Speaker 6: engagement that they get on Twitter. So Twitter is cannot

818
00:43:28,400 --> 00:43:30,799
Speaker 6: be any more different than it was even a year ago.

819
00:43:31,080 --> 00:43:35,080
Speaker 6: Is really just become Elon Musk's a sandbox of whenever

820
00:43:35,160 --> 00:43:37,799
Speaker 6: he wants, and he's constantly sort of pushing the boundaries

821
00:43:37,840 --> 00:43:40,560
Speaker 6: on what's acceptable and that you know, you see that

822
00:43:40,719 --> 00:43:43,080
Speaker 6: and the user base and how people are going away.

823
00:43:43,280 --> 00:43:47,160
Speaker 1: That's an incredible bit of sorcery right there. So here

824
00:43:47,160 --> 00:43:53,000
Speaker 1: we are Elon is engaged in monetizing the platform, whatever

825
00:43:53,000 --> 00:43:55,839
Speaker 1: that looks like. So it seems to me like what

826
00:43:55,920 --> 00:44:00,040
Speaker 1: Elon had always wanted was to make it so.

827
00:44:00,680 --> 00:44:01,359
Speaker 2: And I think this.

828
00:44:01,400 --> 00:44:03,640
Speaker 1: Is a lot of tech pros were like this. They

829
00:44:04,320 --> 00:44:07,040
Speaker 1: sort of thought, like, what does the mainstream media do nothing?

830
00:44:07,680 --> 00:44:10,720
Speaker 1: We're going to just recreate it by getting our guys

831
00:44:11,400 --> 00:44:13,440
Speaker 1: to sort of make their own media, right, Like that

832
00:44:13,600 --> 00:44:14,680
Speaker 1: was sort of the idea.

833
00:44:14,719 --> 00:44:16,239
Speaker 2: I mean, we saw him tweet about it.

834
00:44:16,280 --> 00:44:19,239
Speaker 1: We saw David Sachs, we saw all of his like

835
00:44:19,600 --> 00:44:21,680
Speaker 1: tech pros get very excited about this.

836
00:44:21,880 --> 00:44:23,240
Speaker 2: And they were like, this is easy.

837
00:44:23,320 --> 00:44:27,080
Speaker 1: Will replace you know, We'll replace a liberal outlet with

838
00:44:27,200 --> 00:44:30,920
Speaker 1: the crass and Steen, We'll replace the Wall Street Journal

839
00:44:30,960 --> 00:44:32,640
Speaker 1: with Bill Mitchell.

840
00:44:32,680 --> 00:44:34,640
Speaker 2: You know, how hard can it be?

841
00:44:35,000 --> 00:44:39,600
Speaker 1: And that was sort of the monetizing situation too, was

842
00:44:39,640 --> 00:44:42,120
Speaker 1: that you know, then you would make more money. You

843
00:44:42,160 --> 00:44:44,239
Speaker 1: know whatever has that worked out for them?

844
00:44:44,880 --> 00:44:47,440
Speaker 6: It hasn't and not yet, I mean, and this has

845
00:44:47,480 --> 00:44:50,560
Speaker 6: been the challenge for like you said, the whole kind

846
00:44:50,560 --> 00:44:54,200
Speaker 6: of right wing internet experiment. And this happened during the

847
00:44:54,239 --> 00:44:58,080
Speaker 6: Trump years where they said, you know, after January sixth,

848
00:44:58,120 --> 00:45:01,520
Speaker 6: really when some of these websites for being deplatformed, you know,

849
00:45:01,600 --> 00:45:05,799
Speaker 6: Parlor disappeared, and you saw the companies go, well, we

850
00:45:05,920 --> 00:45:07,960
Speaker 6: have to create our we don't need Amazon anymore.

851
00:45:07,960 --> 00:45:08,760
Speaker 4: We don't need Twitter.

852
00:45:08,840 --> 00:45:13,879
Speaker 6: We'll create truth Social and Rumble, and those websites all

853
00:45:14,360 --> 00:45:17,279
Speaker 6: have by and large not been successful. I mean, they

854
00:45:17,320 --> 00:45:21,799
Speaker 6: have built niche audiences, but they are not anywhere near

855
00:45:21,880 --> 00:45:25,000
Speaker 6: the mainstream networks. And the big problem with those is

856
00:45:25,560 --> 00:45:29,080
Speaker 6: there's no libs to own on their right, it's just

857
00:45:29,280 --> 00:45:32,919
Speaker 6: all it's all preaching to the choir, and it gets

858
00:45:32,920 --> 00:45:35,360
Speaker 6: a little boring. I mean even on the people on

859
00:45:35,440 --> 00:45:37,279
Speaker 6: there say, you know, why do I just want to

860
00:45:37,280 --> 00:45:40,279
Speaker 6: look at the same memes all day? So Elon, I

861
00:45:40,280 --> 00:45:42,640
Speaker 6: guess he thought maybe he could do it differently with

862
00:45:42,680 --> 00:45:46,120
Speaker 6: Twitter by sort of taking this a social network that

863
00:45:46,440 --> 00:45:49,160
Speaker 6: you know, a lot of the popular influencers on there.

864
00:45:48,960 --> 00:45:50,600
Speaker 4: Were effectively liberals, right.

865
00:45:50,600 --> 00:45:54,160
Speaker 6: You had a lot of celebrities and politicians and comedians

866
00:45:54,200 --> 00:45:57,520
Speaker 6: and they you know, they were a journalist and a

867
00:45:57,560 --> 00:45:59,759
Speaker 6: lot of people who were just you know, on the side.

868
00:45:59,800 --> 00:46:03,279
Speaker 6: He felt like was too woke and too left, and

869
00:46:03,400 --> 00:46:05,520
Speaker 6: he felt like, well, I'm just going to come in

870
00:46:05,680 --> 00:46:09,120
Speaker 6: and I'm going to make it more central around these

871
00:46:09,160 --> 00:46:11,600
Speaker 6: kinds of ideas. And so you saw him elevating people

872
00:46:11,920 --> 00:46:15,080
Speaker 6: like libs of TikTok and other sort of anti trans

873
00:46:15,120 --> 00:46:20,440
Speaker 6: accounts and the makeup of Twitter started to change really quickly,

874
00:46:20,480 --> 00:46:23,800
Speaker 6: and a lot of the technical levers he's been pulling

875
00:46:23,880 --> 00:46:28,200
Speaker 6: since then have been kind of in service of that ideal.

876
00:46:28,400 --> 00:46:30,839
Speaker 6: I mean, there's a reason why Tucker Carlson has his

877
00:46:30,920 --> 00:46:34,080
Speaker 6: show on x now instead of anywhere else and so,

878
00:46:34,360 --> 00:46:37,040
Speaker 6: but financial, you know, so culturally, I think he has

879
00:46:37,080 --> 00:46:39,920
Speaker 6: been able to shift the vibe of the website, but

880
00:46:40,280 --> 00:46:45,200
Speaker 6: financially it's still like a huge loser. I mean, AD revenue,

881
00:46:45,480 --> 00:46:48,320
Speaker 6: even as he has admitted AD revenue has plunged.

882
00:46:48,360 --> 00:46:52,879
Speaker 4: A lot of companies just don't want to be selling. Yeah.

883
00:46:53,360 --> 00:46:56,040
Speaker 6: Yeah, that's the way to put Clorox wipes and shoes

884
00:46:56,080 --> 00:46:58,160
Speaker 6: next to like a bunch of kooks.

885
00:46:58,320 --> 00:47:01,719
Speaker 1: All right, did the Holocaust really happen? Yeah, so let

886
00:47:01,800 --> 00:47:06,400
Speaker 1: me ask you the monetizing. So a lot of people

887
00:47:06,719 --> 00:47:10,520
Speaker 1: last month got like ten fifteen thousand dollars. The Crafts

888
00:47:10,600 --> 00:47:13,360
Speaker 1: and Steans were the sort of held up as the

889
00:47:13,520 --> 00:47:16,000
Speaker 1: liberal example of this. Now you'll remember the Crafts and

890
00:47:16,000 --> 00:47:21,280
Speaker 1: Steins really do work in service to Elon, despite maybe

891
00:47:21,440 --> 00:47:25,080
Speaker 1: not being far right. They were kicked off Twitter originally

892
00:47:25,080 --> 00:47:28,320
Speaker 1: for operating a bond network. So these guys are pretty sketch.

893
00:47:28,480 --> 00:47:31,880
Speaker 1: They got money libs of TikTok. A lot of conservative

894
00:47:31,920 --> 00:47:35,200
Speaker 1: influencers got money, but did normal people get money.

895
00:47:35,320 --> 00:47:38,359
Speaker 2: Nobody offered me any money. I mean, like, let's talk

896
00:47:38,400 --> 00:47:38,759
Speaker 2: about that.

897
00:47:39,160 --> 00:47:39,560
Speaker 4: Yeah.

898
00:47:39,800 --> 00:47:44,400
Speaker 6: So the elevator pitch was buy Twitter Blue ex blue

899
00:47:44,440 --> 00:47:48,400
Speaker 6: for eight dollars a month and you will be rewarded

900
00:47:48,480 --> 00:47:52,440
Speaker 6: potentially with this big ad revenue split. All of the

901
00:47:52,480 --> 00:47:56,440
Speaker 6: fine print, though, is why it's been so unbalanced. Like,

902
00:47:56,800 --> 00:47:59,680
Speaker 6: to get money, you have to have a certain amount

903
00:47:59,719 --> 00:48:03,280
Speaker 6: of like views on your tweets or X posts or whatever.

904
00:48:03,360 --> 00:48:06,080
Speaker 6: I think it's something like five million a month or something,

905
00:48:06,480 --> 00:48:11,720
Speaker 6: and those have to only come from other ex blue subscribers, Right,

906
00:48:11,800 --> 00:48:14,280
Speaker 6: So these are other people who have paid eight dollars

907
00:48:14,280 --> 00:48:17,480
Speaker 6: a month, yeah, who are yeah, leaning more conservatives. So

908
00:48:17,560 --> 00:48:19,440
Speaker 6: you start to read through all the fine prints, and

909
00:48:19,760 --> 00:48:24,320
Speaker 6: when we've done the research, it's a vanishingly small crust

910
00:48:24,360 --> 00:48:26,800
Speaker 6: of people who are getting the payouts from this. Of course,

911
00:48:26,920 --> 00:48:29,680
Speaker 6: when they get the payouts, they go on to X

912
00:48:29,760 --> 00:48:32,120
Speaker 6: and say, oh my gosh, I'm rich, and so it

913
00:48:32,239 --> 00:48:35,360
Speaker 6: creates this like flywheel. I mean that's what Elon wants,

914
00:48:35,400 --> 00:48:37,880
Speaker 6: I assume, is to get everybody feeling like, hey, I

915
00:48:37,880 --> 00:48:40,120
Speaker 6: could get paid for this too, but we have not

916
00:48:40,200 --> 00:48:42,399
Speaker 6: seen this, you know, reaching down to the normal people.

917
00:48:42,440 --> 00:48:45,000
Speaker 6: And to be clear, like you know, the creator economy

918
00:48:45,040 --> 00:48:48,000
Speaker 6: of people making money off YouTube and TikTok and Twitch,

919
00:48:48,200 --> 00:48:50,680
Speaker 6: it's it's always kind of a one percent economy. Some

920
00:48:50,719 --> 00:48:52,920
Speaker 6: people get like fabulously rich and a lot of people

921
00:48:52,960 --> 00:48:56,960
Speaker 6: get nothing. But Twitter is just it's become really clear

922
00:48:57,160 --> 00:48:59,680
Speaker 6: that just the people, and like you said, with the

923
00:48:59,719 --> 00:49:03,960
Speaker 6: craft and scenes, to get money, you really have to farm.

924
00:49:03,840 --> 00:49:05,480
Speaker 4: Engagement in whatever way you can.

925
00:49:05,520 --> 00:49:09,040
Speaker 6: And it's actually kind of made Twitter somehow even more

926
00:49:09,200 --> 00:49:13,040
Speaker 6: crass because you can you can almost see people stunting

927
00:49:13,239 --> 00:49:18,160
Speaker 6: for hate clicks and retweets and just posting the kind

928
00:49:18,200 --> 00:49:21,680
Speaker 6: of crud online that you don't really want to see

929
00:49:21,719 --> 00:49:25,239
Speaker 6: but just works to get people clicking because that's what

930
00:49:25,320 --> 00:49:27,960
Speaker 6: they need to get, you know, another couple cents on

931
00:49:28,000 --> 00:49:31,120
Speaker 6: their Twitter paycheck. And I always want to like remind

932
00:49:31,120 --> 00:49:34,560
Speaker 6: people Twitter is not some fabulously money making company and

933
00:49:34,600 --> 00:49:37,920
Speaker 6: it never has been. Yeah, so this is all I mean,

934
00:49:37,920 --> 00:49:40,239
Speaker 6: they're kind of burning money. Some people have described this

935
00:49:40,280 --> 00:49:43,440
Speaker 6: as really kind of desperate, because this is Twitter saying

936
00:49:43,840 --> 00:49:47,600
Speaker 6: we're going to give payouts to people to keep using

937
00:49:48,080 --> 00:49:49,040
Speaker 6: our product.

938
00:49:49,120 --> 00:49:51,320
Speaker 4: It's like a quasi bribe.

939
00:49:51,560 --> 00:49:54,040
Speaker 6: Obviously, Twitter before this never had to pay people to

940
00:49:54,560 --> 00:49:56,880
Speaker 6: be creating content on Twitter, and yet it was still

941
00:49:56,880 --> 00:50:00,879
Speaker 6: this cultural juggernaut. So the fact that Elon had to

942
00:50:00,880 --> 00:50:03,920
Speaker 6: be handing out checks to accomplish the same just shows

943
00:50:03,960 --> 00:50:05,279
Speaker 6: how struggling they are.

944
00:50:05,880 --> 00:50:09,120
Speaker 2: We be banking on X. I personally do not want

945
00:50:09,160 --> 00:50:09,759
Speaker 2: to give him.

946
00:50:10,120 --> 00:50:13,360
Speaker 1: I have to say, after my experience with Elon owning Twitter,

947
00:50:13,440 --> 00:50:15,759
Speaker 1: I want to neither let him put something in my

948
00:50:15,840 --> 00:50:19,440
Speaker 1: brain nor give him my Social Security number.

949
00:50:19,800 --> 00:50:25,160
Speaker 4: Discuss Yeah, I mean that's a good question.

950
00:50:25,280 --> 00:50:27,480
Speaker 2: I'm sorry you're not on the opinion side.

951
00:50:27,520 --> 00:50:29,759
Speaker 6: But you can buy an Elon Musk car, you can

952
00:50:29,760 --> 00:50:32,040
Speaker 6: get in an Elon Musk rocket, you can go in

953
00:50:32,040 --> 00:50:37,600
Speaker 6: an Elon Musk tunnel, Elon Musk, brain chips, flamethrowers. Again,

954
00:50:37,640 --> 00:50:41,040
Speaker 6: I'm not an opinion people. A lot of people love

955
00:50:41,160 --> 00:50:43,480
Speaker 6: Elon Musk. I mean this has always been the way

956
00:50:43,520 --> 00:50:46,120
Speaker 6: I covered Tesla before Twitter. There has always been an

957
00:50:46,239 --> 00:50:49,279
Speaker 6: army of Elon Musk stands who you know, see the

958
00:50:49,360 --> 00:50:52,640
Speaker 6: iron Man, see the guy who takes no gov says

959
00:50:52,680 --> 00:50:56,040
Speaker 6: what he wants. I think that audience has obviously changed

960
00:50:56,080 --> 00:51:00,600
Speaker 6: a lot. It's not like just nerdy type anymore. You

961
00:51:00,640 --> 00:51:03,520
Speaker 6: see this big sort of maga love fest that's come

962
00:51:03,560 --> 00:51:06,200
Speaker 6: to him. But I mean it's it's hurting the other businesses.

963
00:51:06,239 --> 00:51:09,799
Speaker 6: You can see the other businesses. They're all getting distracted

964
00:51:09,840 --> 00:51:11,520
Speaker 6: by this. I mean people who wanted to buy it

965
00:51:11,520 --> 00:51:15,560
Speaker 6: to Tesla. Tesla purchases are down. Twitter usage is down,

966
00:51:15,680 --> 00:51:19,040
Speaker 6: so you know, the circus around Elon does have an effect.

967
00:51:19,200 --> 00:51:22,839
Speaker 6: Not normies don't always want to be buing into that.

968
00:51:23,000 --> 00:51:23,239
Speaker 3: I mean.

969
00:51:23,280 --> 00:51:26,200
Speaker 6: But then again, you know, Twitter is still still very popular.

970
00:51:26,200 --> 00:51:28,759
Speaker 6: It's still beating Threads and Blue Sky and masks On

971
00:51:28,920 --> 00:51:31,960
Speaker 6: and all these all these others. But those companies are

972
00:51:32,040 --> 00:51:34,759
Speaker 6: are rising, and it's just the start of sort of

973
00:51:34,760 --> 00:51:35,880
Speaker 6: Elon Musk's regime.

974
00:51:36,000 --> 00:51:37,319
Speaker 4: So can he you know.

975
00:51:37,320 --> 00:51:38,480
Speaker 6: And this is a guy who has to pay a

976
00:51:38,520 --> 00:51:40,880
Speaker 6: billion dollars a year just to pay the debt for

977
00:51:40,960 --> 00:51:41,560
Speaker 6: this company.

978
00:51:41,640 --> 00:51:43,920
Speaker 7: So I don't think time is on elon must side.

979
00:51:44,000 --> 00:51:49,959
Speaker 7: Oh well, thank you shut threatened me with a good time.

980
00:51:50,520 --> 00:51:52,200
Speaker 7: Thank you so much for joining us.

981
00:51:52,239 --> 00:51:53,520
Speaker 2: I hope you'll come back true.

982
00:51:53,800 --> 00:51:55,160
Speaker 4: Yes, thanks for having me.

983
00:51:58,120 --> 00:51:58,440
Speaker 1: Moment.

984
00:51:59,600 --> 00:52:04,759
Speaker 3: Jesse Cannon, Molly jung Fast, that Roger stone Man who

985
00:52:04,800 --> 00:52:07,400
Speaker 3: doesn't really give a lot of fucks and really always

986
00:52:07,440 --> 00:52:09,160
Speaker 3: thinks he's the smartest one in the room.

987
00:52:09,239 --> 00:52:11,360
Speaker 4: Well, I think he got him some trouble.

988
00:52:11,719 --> 00:52:14,800
Speaker 1: Well, this is like such a great moment in Roger

989
00:52:14,880 --> 00:52:21,840
Speaker 1: stone lore. He is out on bail from his conviction

990
00:52:22,320 --> 00:52:26,799
Speaker 1: in the Mueller probe, as Andrew Weissman noted, and he

991
00:52:26,920 --> 00:52:30,000
Speaker 1: is already this is like two days after the election

992
00:52:30,360 --> 00:52:34,080
Speaker 1: in November. It was before it was called, but it

993
00:52:34,239 --> 00:52:36,600
Speaker 1: was a few days after the voting had happened, and

994
00:52:36,640 --> 00:52:39,319
Speaker 1: we already really knew the writing on the wall, and

995
00:52:39,760 --> 00:52:42,799
Speaker 1: Roger Stone had decided that this was the way they

996
00:52:42,840 --> 00:52:46,000
Speaker 1: were going to so doubt. You know what's funny about

997
00:52:46,040 --> 00:52:49,399
Speaker 1: all these things is like, if you're going to do crimes,

998
00:52:49,760 --> 00:52:53,360
Speaker 1: who is videotaping this are Why is he being videotaped

999
00:52:53,440 --> 00:52:56,160
Speaker 1: all the time? Anyway, I just want to say, if

1000
00:52:56,160 --> 00:52:58,920
Speaker 1: you're going to do crimes, don't do them on video.

1001
00:52:59,200 --> 00:53:02,040
Speaker 1: That is my I'm not a defense lawyer. I don't

1002
00:53:02,080 --> 00:53:05,120
Speaker 1: even play one on TV. And yet, if you're gonna

1003
00:53:05,160 --> 00:53:06,680
Speaker 1: do crimes, don't do them on video.

1004
00:53:07,000 --> 00:53:09,239
Speaker 4: You know the wire they said, don't take notes on

1005
00:53:09,280 --> 00:53:11,960
Speaker 4: a criminal operation because doing video on it would be

1006
00:53:12,000 --> 00:53:15,040
Speaker 4: even stupider. Yeah, that's what Nicole said today.

1007
00:53:18,320 --> 00:53:21,640
Speaker 1: That's it for this episode of Fast Politics. Tune in

1008
00:53:21,680 --> 00:53:24,920
Speaker 1: every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday to hear the best minds

1009
00:53:24,920 --> 00:53:28,160
Speaker 1: in politics makes sense of all this chaos. If you

1010
00:53:28,280 --> 00:53:30,960
Speaker 1: enjoyed what you've heard, please send it to a friend

1011
00:53:31,000 --> 00:53:34,560
Speaker 1: and keep the conversation going. And again, thanks for listening.