WEBVTT - Grant-Lee Phillips 0:00:15.476 --> 0:00:15.956 Pushkin. 0:00:20.276 --> 0:00:22.556 Grantly Phillips first made his name in the nineties as 0:00:22.596 --> 0:00:26.196 the frontman of Grant Lee Buffalo, a critically acclaimed band 0:00:26.236 --> 0:00:28.996 that released four albums and toured with Pearl Jam, The 0:00:29.036 --> 0:00:33.196 Smashing Pumpkins, and rim Rolling Stone named Grant Lee Best 0:00:33.196 --> 0:00:35.956 Male Vocalist in ninety four, and his band became known 0:00:35.996 --> 0:00:38.876 for their folk confused rock sound and their reflections on 0:00:38.916 --> 0:00:43.236 American history. After Grantly Buffalo disbanded in ninety nine, Phillips 0:00:43.276 --> 0:00:46.796 launched a solo career, eventually becoming familiar to a wider 0:00:46.836 --> 0:00:49.476 audience through his recurring role as the town troubadour on 0:00:49.596 --> 0:00:53.356 Gilmour Girls. Last September, he released his twelfth solo album, 0:00:53.436 --> 0:00:56.276 and The Hour of Dust. The album's title was inspired 0:00:56.276 --> 0:00:59.676 by an ancient Indian painting grantle Soada Museum in Pasadena 0:00:59.796 --> 0:01:02.276 that depicts the twilight moment when cows are led home 0:01:02.356 --> 0:01:05.676 and kick up dust as night false. On today's episode, 0:01:05.716 --> 0:01:08.356 Bruce Headlem talks to GRANTLYE. Phillips about making in The 0:01:08.396 --> 0:01:10.596 Hour of Dust. He tells the story of how he 0:01:10.636 --> 0:01:12.636 tripped to the Librea tar pits with his old friend 0:01:12.636 --> 0:01:16.836 Michael Stipe, inspired his song American Lions, and he discusses 0:01:16.876 --> 0:01:19.756 his songwriting process and how he approaches writing lyrics that 0:01:19.796 --> 0:01:26.756 balanced the personal with larger societal themes. This is broken record, 0:01:27.196 --> 0:01:37.196 real musicians, real conversations. Here's Bruce Headlam with Grant Welee Phillips. 0:01:38.356 --> 0:01:41.316 You have a new album called in the Hour of Dust, 0:01:42.396 --> 0:01:44.436 and I want to know the story behind the title. 0:01:45.236 --> 0:01:45.516 Man. 0:01:45.676 --> 0:01:48.116 I'll try to make this as concise as I can. 0:01:48.836 --> 0:01:53.916 But I was out in LA where I lived for 0:01:54.036 --> 0:01:56.556 some thirty years something like that. I'm a native Californian, 0:01:57.196 --> 0:02:02.596 but I moved from Stockton, California, to LA in about 0:02:02.596 --> 0:02:04.996 eighty three, I guess. But some years ago I was 0:02:05.036 --> 0:02:07.876 at the Norton Simon Museum of Art. It's a great 0:02:07.956 --> 0:02:11.956 museum in Pasadena, and they had an exhibit paintings from 0:02:11.996 --> 0:02:15.756 India from about the fifteenth century, I think, and one 0:02:15.756 --> 0:02:19.436 of them was called The Hour of cow Dust. This 0:02:19.476 --> 0:02:22.756 is just a really lovely little painting and I love 0:02:22.836 --> 0:02:25.556 that title. And I wrote it down and just kind of, 0:02:25.596 --> 0:02:28.756 you know, set it aside and forgot about it for 0:02:28.796 --> 0:02:33.396 about fifteen years something like that. But it came back 0:02:33.436 --> 0:02:37.036 to me when I was struting to do a lot 0:02:37.036 --> 0:02:39.716 of painting myself, you know, I've always been interested in 0:02:39.796 --> 0:02:42.756 visual art and involved with that, you know, as well 0:02:42.756 --> 0:02:46.436 as songwriting. But I had a particular piece that I 0:02:46.476 --> 0:02:48.716 had painted, and I was asking myself what I want 0:02:48.756 --> 0:02:54.476 to call this, and some part of me was reminded 0:02:54.636 --> 0:02:58.476 of that particular title, the Hour of cow Dust. I 0:02:58.476 --> 0:03:00.076 always wanted to do something with that. I thought it 0:03:00.156 --> 0:03:04.516 might be a song. Who knew. And at the same time, 0:03:05.116 --> 0:03:10.756 I had taken an interest in a Mayormerican Tonalism, the 0:03:10.876 --> 0:03:14.996 art movement that it was dubbed American Tonalism a little 0:03:14.996 --> 0:03:20.276 bit later, but it was roughly the late eighteen hundreds 0:03:20.476 --> 0:03:25.036 posts Civil War, and this is a period where landscape 0:03:25.036 --> 0:03:31.476 painters are preoccupied with the idea of twilight, that transition 0:03:31.716 --> 0:03:35.836 from day to night. And I believe it was sort 0:03:35.836 --> 0:03:39.036 of a metaphor and a way of encompassing some of 0:03:39.236 --> 0:03:42.476 the grief and the confusion in the wake of the 0:03:42.916 --> 0:03:45.276 American Civil War, and. 0:03:45.116 --> 0:03:47.236 All of these things kind of collided. 0:03:47.596 --> 0:03:51.236 And that title kind of leapt forward, you know, in 0:03:51.316 --> 0:03:55.596 the hour of Dust, a moment of confusion, working your 0:03:55.636 --> 0:03:59.436 way through the blinding sands of unreality. 0:04:00.556 --> 0:04:04.036 So why was the Indian painting called cow Dust? What 0:04:04.076 --> 0:04:04.636 does that mean. 0:04:05.316 --> 0:04:07.516 Well, that's a great question that. 0:04:07.796 --> 0:04:10.516 Has to do with this, this moment in the day 0:04:11.156 --> 0:04:14.116 when the cows are led back home and in doing so, 0:04:15.316 --> 0:04:19.116 their hoofs kick up the dust, right, and we're blinded 0:04:19.156 --> 0:04:21.836 by that dust. And it's that moment when we have 0:04:21.916 --> 0:04:25.156 to light the lanterns, we have to prepare for night. 0:04:25.516 --> 0:04:26.596 Night is about to fall. 0:04:27.076 --> 0:04:29.396 So I thought, well, there it is. You know, it's 0:04:29.436 --> 0:04:30.316 that theme again. 0:04:31.116 --> 0:04:33.436 You, as well as being interested in art, you are 0:04:33.476 --> 0:04:39.156 a very impressionistic lyric writer. For the most part, this 0:04:39.196 --> 0:04:42.796 album's a little different. The songwriting is more direct here. 0:04:43.036 --> 0:04:45.796 I think, Yeah, that's possible. I think. 0:04:46.796 --> 0:04:49.396 I think I've always been trying to be as direct 0:04:49.556 --> 0:04:53.596 as I could and not realizing that I have somehow 0:04:53.716 --> 0:04:59.716 veered into the metaphor that happens as well. Maybe with age, 0:05:00.036 --> 0:05:03.516 with doing it over and over, some clarity comes with that. 0:05:04.716 --> 0:05:08.596 Yeah, a song like you Know she Knows Me? Yeah, 0:05:08.716 --> 0:05:12.076 it's got a beautiful image of you a kite flying 0:05:12.116 --> 0:05:16.516 out a window, but it's it's it's a love song. Yeah, 0:05:16.556 --> 0:05:20.796 Bullies is a song about bullies, little men, No mistaking 0:05:21.076 --> 0:05:24.316 is it's a great love song. Yeah, in a much 0:05:24.356 --> 0:05:26.556 more direct in a much more direct way. Was that 0:05:27.396 --> 0:05:28.556 was that deliberate or is this. 0:05:28.516 --> 0:05:29.916 Is this is just what you're feeling. 0:05:30.996 --> 0:05:33.716 It's deliberate, It's what I'm feeling. I don't believe that 0:05:33.756 --> 0:05:37.396 it's altogether new, though, I'm I if you look through 0:05:38.356 --> 0:05:42.436 a certain degree of my work, my solo albums especially, 0:05:42.516 --> 0:05:45.836 I guess you know, Post Grantly Buffalo, there are songs 0:05:45.916 --> 0:05:49.876 like Heavenly, Heavenly and Truly Truly, I guess all the 0:05:51.116 --> 0:05:56.476 double the double titled songs, you know, trying to hammer 0:05:56.476 --> 0:05:58.556 the point home there. I guess I'll sing it again. 0:05:59.596 --> 0:06:01.636 You know, I can't think of another word that's right. 0:06:01.996 --> 0:06:05.156 I think I've always kind of walked that line, I guess, 0:06:05.276 --> 0:06:09.356 And for me, kind of citing citing those things that 0:06:09.436 --> 0:06:14.036 are meaningful to me is a way of kind of 0:06:14.036 --> 0:06:17.596 of honoring all that I do care about, you know, 0:06:18.436 --> 0:06:21.196 all of the tenderness of life that seems to get 0:06:21.316 --> 0:06:25.316 pushed to the side sometimes in this state of constant 0:06:25.916 --> 0:06:29.396 panic that we find ourselves in. You know, So I 0:06:29.516 --> 0:06:32.316 choose to sing about those things that keep me up 0:06:32.316 --> 0:06:36.076 at night. But I also I'm aware of what I'd 0:06:36.156 --> 0:06:40.156 rather be focused on, you know, and that's the stuff 0:06:40.156 --> 0:06:40.556 of life. 0:06:40.636 --> 0:06:41.036 As well. 0:06:41.556 --> 0:06:45.116 So I mentioned the song she Knows Me? 0:06:45.436 --> 0:06:49.396 Yeah, and it does have this wonderful image of you 0:06:49.476 --> 0:06:53.876 as a kite being swept out the window and the 0:06:53.876 --> 0:06:56.036 person in your life knows how to get you down 0:06:56.076 --> 0:06:58.876 from the telephone wires. Did you get stuck on? Yeah, 0:06:58.956 --> 0:07:01.996 a song like that? Did it start with a simple 0:07:02.036 --> 0:07:06.196 thought she knows Me? Or did that image begin? How 0:07:06.236 --> 0:07:08.716 did How did a song like that come together? 0:07:09.476 --> 0:07:12.836 My experience is that the best songs they leave me 0:07:12.876 --> 0:07:15.356 a little bit confused, and I can't remember writing them, 0:07:15.556 --> 0:07:18.396 you know, I can't remember how they were written. I 0:07:18.396 --> 0:07:22.196 can remember being It's like it's like recalling being abducted 0:07:22.316 --> 0:07:24.996 or something, isn't it. I was on I was on 0:07:25.276 --> 0:07:29.196 a country road and there was a light and I 0:07:29.276 --> 0:07:34.396 was backstage in Dublin and I was, you know, kind 0:07:34.396 --> 0:07:36.916 of plunking on the guitar and I landed on these 0:07:37.036 --> 0:07:39.836 chords and I began to kind of sing, and in 0:07:39.836 --> 0:07:42.796 that state of nerves that you get before you go on, 0:07:43.436 --> 0:07:45.956 I realized, Hey, there's a song here, there's something, something's 0:07:45.956 --> 0:07:50.396 happening here. I'll sing it into my phone and I did, 0:07:50.756 --> 0:07:52.716 and then I kind of just kept singing. It never 0:07:52.756 --> 0:07:55.916 really never you know, really putting too much thought into 0:07:56.036 --> 0:08:00.116 it at soundcheck, and gosh, maybe a month or so later, 0:08:00.836 --> 0:08:05.276 turned on the tape, the digital tape, and it all 0:08:05.516 --> 0:08:08.396 just kind of fell out, you know. But I kind 0:08:08.396 --> 0:08:10.996 of I have found that that is a good way 0:08:11.036 --> 0:08:13.516 for me to work, you know, because this is such 0:08:13.556 --> 0:08:17.436 as a verbal medium, and the songs exist as we're 0:08:17.436 --> 0:08:20.756 talking now, you know, I as opposed to like the 0:08:20.796 --> 0:08:23.196 songs having this separate life on a sheet of paper, 0:08:23.796 --> 0:08:27.676 I would much rather use the microphone as my my quill. 0:08:28.356 --> 0:08:31.636 And often I'll do that when I feel like, you know, 0:08:31.796 --> 0:08:33.676 this is just not singing right, let me just turn 0:08:34.196 --> 0:08:36.316 And you know, I've heard that Bowie would do that 0:08:36.436 --> 0:08:39.116 as well, you know, trying to work his way through 0:08:39.236 --> 0:08:43.636 phrase after phrase until it felt natural and it felt 0:08:43.756 --> 0:08:44.756 right and you can. 0:08:44.676 --> 0:08:45.796 Just trust that process. 0:08:46.436 --> 0:08:49.036 Is that process for you, a short one, a long one? 0:08:49.756 --> 0:08:50.916 Both? It can is. 0:08:51.436 --> 0:08:57.236 It's usually the case of one wonderful spasm of a song, 0:08:57.836 --> 0:09:00.836 but if it isn't completed in that moment, I might 0:09:00.876 --> 0:09:04.196 have to wait until the next occasion for you know, 0:09:04.236 --> 0:09:05.996 to pick it up where I left off. And that 0:09:06.036 --> 0:09:09.356 too can be kind of spasmodic or just you know, 0:09:09.436 --> 0:09:12.156 the case of getting in the car and singing along 0:09:12.236 --> 0:09:13.796 and then it hits me. 0:09:13.876 --> 0:09:16.076 You know, I really have. 0:09:16.756 --> 0:09:18.716 I have learned to try to get out of my 0:09:18.756 --> 0:09:21.356 own way and that case, you know, let the song 0:09:21.436 --> 0:09:24.556 kind of write itself, and it does it most always done. 0:09:25.636 --> 0:09:26.476 Yeah. Yeah. 0:09:26.476 --> 0:09:30.156 If I use my voice as kind of the skeleton 0:09:30.236 --> 0:09:33.716 key that that usually seems to work out the best. 0:09:33.916 --> 0:09:37.116 You know, like automatic writing, but using your voice, you know, 0:09:37.276 --> 0:09:39.756 it doesn't all have to exist with your wrist. 0:09:39.596 --> 0:09:42.756 And then do you you filled in the chords around 0:09:42.796 --> 0:09:44.356 that doesn't have to exist with your wrists. 0:09:44.356 --> 0:09:46.356 See it happened right here in the room. 0:09:47.556 --> 0:09:49.196 I thank god we're surrounded by microphone. 0:09:49.236 --> 0:09:51.956 I think they've never written such a genius line like that. 0:09:52.236 --> 0:09:58.996 Yeah, you have very distinctive melodies. There's usually a few 0:09:59.396 --> 0:10:02.396 intervals that aren't usual. There's a lot of chromatic lines. 0:10:02.436 --> 0:10:05.396 And what you write. Is that something you work on 0:10:05.436 --> 0:10:07.636 with songs or is it something that's just where your 0:10:07.716 --> 0:10:08.276 voice goes. 0:10:08.356 --> 0:10:10.476 I think it's where my voice and where my my 0:10:10.636 --> 0:10:12.076 fingers go, where my ears go. 0:10:12.196 --> 0:10:12.876 I guess, you know. 0:10:13.516 --> 0:10:17.036 I like exploring with the guitar, like making discoveries, and 0:10:17.916 --> 0:10:21.436 you know, sometimes sometimes I do get under the hood 0:10:21.436 --> 0:10:24.076 of some some song that I've always been mesmerized by, 0:10:24.156 --> 0:10:26.516 you know, like, how do you play stardust? You know, 0:10:27.156 --> 0:10:29.756 everything that's you know, under the under the stars. You know, 0:10:29.796 --> 0:10:33.676 there's so much music you can explore and and sometimes 0:10:33.716 --> 0:10:35.956 when you get it wrong, you wind up discovering something 0:10:35.956 --> 0:10:37.796 else and that can be my song. 0:10:38.516 --> 0:10:42.476 Do you Is that something you'll do, like you'll you'll 0:10:42.516 --> 0:10:44.516 sing another song and you'll get a germ of an 0:10:44.516 --> 0:10:45.156 idea from that. 0:10:46.116 --> 0:10:48.236 I suppose that's. Yeah, that's possible. 0:10:48.756 --> 0:10:53.396 It's more indirect though, It's it's more like sort of 0:10:53.436 --> 0:10:56.236 like this, like like the album title, whatever time I 0:10:56.316 --> 0:10:58.796 spent a few years back trying to work out some 0:10:58.876 --> 0:11:02.956 strange chord and stardust, it might reappear and inspire me 0:11:03.436 --> 0:11:06.556 down the road, you know. Rodney Krause said something like that, 0:11:06.596 --> 0:11:10.436 like he played in bands where they had play helped 0:11:10.436 --> 0:11:13.396 me make it through the night, you know, And he said, 0:11:13.396 --> 0:11:15.716 if I hadn't done that, then I probably wouldn't have 0:11:15.756 --> 0:11:19.516 written Leaving the Louisiana and the Pale Moonlighter. You know, 0:11:20.156 --> 0:11:22.956 these kind of things they have a way of kind 0:11:22.996 --> 0:11:27.596 of creeping to the surface years later. You know, that's 0:11:27.716 --> 0:11:30.596 part of the magic of this whole thing is you know, 0:11:30.756 --> 0:11:34.516 kind of you know, kind of lighting the right incense 0:11:34.596 --> 0:11:38.676 and and just seeing seeing what happens, and and you know, 0:11:39.276 --> 0:11:42.196 I like that the spontaneity of it. And there's always 0:11:42.236 --> 0:11:44.996 a place to chip away. And there are great artists 0:11:44.996 --> 0:11:49.596 who who are who skillfully craft their work, you know, 0:11:49.676 --> 0:11:52.676 and and and continue to refine it. I'm not sure 0:11:52.716 --> 0:11:55.236 where I exist in that spectrum, you know. I mean 0:11:55.236 --> 0:11:58.436 I have a level of of you know, I have 0:11:58.476 --> 0:12:03.236 a critical ear as well, but uh, my ear becomes 0:12:03.396 --> 0:12:06.916 more critical when it feels as though it was forced 0:12:07.556 --> 0:12:10.396 or it wasn't natural, or you know, uh it wasn't 0:12:10.436 --> 0:12:11.276 accidental enough. 0:12:11.996 --> 0:12:15.356 Have you have you become more critical as you've gotten older? 0:12:15.476 --> 0:12:16.196 Less critical? 0:12:17.356 --> 0:12:22.036 I think, if anything, I've become a little more trusting 0:12:22.116 --> 0:12:26.916 in the process, less ruled by anxiety. I guess, you know, 0:12:26.956 --> 0:12:29.156 the idea that I don't know. Sometimes you can get 0:12:29.196 --> 0:12:32.156 yourself into kind of a loop where the idea of 0:12:32.236 --> 0:12:35.116 like that you won't finish the song creeps in or 0:12:35.236 --> 0:12:37.236 maybe this is the last record, that kind of thing. 0:12:37.276 --> 0:12:38.956 But even if that was the case, that's you know, 0:12:39.076 --> 0:12:44.036 that's probably acceptable. I would find something else to write about. 0:12:44.116 --> 0:12:47.476 You know what seems like my critical mind is often 0:12:47.556 --> 0:12:48.716 just anxiety. 0:12:48.236 --> 0:12:53.116 Anyhow, mm hm, anxiety over careers. 0:12:53.236 --> 0:12:57.996 Any number of things. Uh uh yeah, I think that's. 0:12:57.836 --> 0:13:00.556 That's that's the kind of the pleasure in music is 0:13:00.916 --> 0:13:03.636 setting setting those things aside. It's the thing that I've 0:13:03.636 --> 0:13:07.236 always you know, when everything was crazy kind of growing 0:13:07.316 --> 0:13:10.596 up in my house, I turned to the guitar and 0:13:10.796 --> 0:13:14.716 put on the headphones and kind of lose myself in music. 0:13:15.516 --> 0:13:17.996 It was that, you know, that sense of comfort. 0:13:18.276 --> 0:13:20.076 Did you grow up in a crazy house? 0:13:20.636 --> 0:13:22.636 A crazy house that was a you know, my parents 0:13:22.636 --> 0:13:24.196 are young, and it seems like there were you know, 0:13:24.236 --> 0:13:28.436 there were always voices being raised, but there were also 0:13:28.676 --> 0:13:30.996 you know, there were good songs playing in the house too. 0:13:31.316 --> 0:13:35.836 My dad loved country music. I have exposed to Merle 0:13:35.876 --> 0:13:39.116 Haggart and Charlie Pride and all that kind of stuff. 0:13:39.116 --> 0:13:42.236 My mother was more of a like a carpenter's fan, 0:13:43.116 --> 0:13:45.956 you know. But it was a golden era in terms 0:13:45.956 --> 0:13:49.036 of great melodic, depressing songs. 0:13:49.756 --> 0:13:51.356 What made you discover the guitar? 0:13:52.156 --> 0:13:54.996 Well, I can remember sitting back with the family and 0:13:55.036 --> 0:13:57.996 we would watch guys like Roy Clark, you know, just 0:13:58.116 --> 0:14:02.156 kind of just shred and everyone was so mesmerized, and 0:14:02.196 --> 0:14:03.916 I was as well, and I wanted to do that, 0:14:03.996 --> 0:14:06.156 you know, I wanted to learn how to make sounds 0:14:06.196 --> 0:14:09.676 like that, play Ghostwriters in the Sky, you know, really 0:14:09.676 --> 0:14:12.156 simple ambitions, you know, I mean to play it like 0:14:12.236 --> 0:14:15.316 Roy Clark is a whole other level of ambition. And 0:14:15.556 --> 0:14:18.036 what I found was that as soon as I picked 0:14:18.076 --> 0:14:20.916 up the guitar and learned a chord or to, I 0:14:20.996 --> 0:14:24.076 began to I began to write songs soon after. 0:14:24.156 --> 0:14:25.676 So I'm in high. 0:14:25.476 --> 0:14:29.196 School, I'm fourteen, fifteen something like that, and I've just 0:14:29.236 --> 0:14:31.956 got a song after song that I'm writing. And it 0:14:31.996 --> 0:14:33.996 was a good time to have your ears open and 0:14:34.076 --> 0:14:35.596 discover all kinds. 0:14:35.396 --> 0:14:36.156 Of music, you know. 0:14:36.316 --> 0:14:40.036 I mean things were kind of blasting off overseas, you know, 0:14:40.196 --> 0:14:44.956 Elvis Costello and great songwriters like that, bands like The Clash. 0:14:45.036 --> 0:14:48.356 But also discovering Neil Young around that time. That was 0:14:48.396 --> 0:14:51.476 a big one for me. Yeah, seeing him by himself 0:14:51.836 --> 0:14:54.956 at the Cow Palace in San Francisco. Yeah, that made 0:14:54.996 --> 0:14:55.756 a real impact. 0:14:56.196 --> 0:14:59.236 You were in LA when you formed Grantly Buffalo. Yeah, 0:14:59.316 --> 0:15:01.236 so tell me were you playing around town? 0:15:01.316 --> 0:15:05.516 What was the Yeah, we played everywhere around town. 0:15:05.636 --> 0:15:06.116 You know, I. 0:15:07.636 --> 0:15:10.676 Moved to LA three, and there was all this stuff 0:15:10.716 --> 0:15:13.516 going on, you know, a lot of underground stuff, and 0:15:13.676 --> 0:15:15.996 we kind of grew up out of that, you know, 0:15:16.436 --> 0:15:19.436 playing these these little clubs and some of them you 0:15:19.436 --> 0:15:22.556 would get a gig at midnight downtown, you know, Al's, 0:15:22.636 --> 0:15:25.276 bar Raji's, all of these these clubs that a lot 0:15:25.316 --> 0:15:28.316 of well known bands, you know, kind of legendary bands 0:15:28.316 --> 0:15:32.196 now also kind of cut their teeth in Largo then 0:15:32.276 --> 0:15:36.756 called Cafe Largo on Fairfax was a it was more 0:15:36.756 --> 0:15:41.716 of a cabaret actually, and that's kind of what where 0:15:41.756 --> 0:15:44.836 we came out of mostly, you know, and kind of 0:15:44.836 --> 0:15:48.156 playing maybe too loud at times for that room and 0:15:48.356 --> 0:15:50.396 pushing the edge, but that's kind of the that's. 0:15:50.196 --> 0:15:51.196 The secret really, you know. 0:15:51.236 --> 0:15:55.476 It's that kind of steam kettle kind of concept where 0:15:55.476 --> 0:15:57.396 there's a little more force than you know, and that 0:15:57.516 --> 0:15:58.476 blows the lid off and. 0:15:58.436 --> 0:15:59.916 It's very exciting, you know. 0:16:00.156 --> 0:16:03.516 I tend to think of LA at that time being 0:16:03.756 --> 0:16:07.796 like the punk scene, maybe like hair metal bands. I 0:16:07.796 --> 0:16:08.876 don't think of it being. 0:16:08.796 --> 0:16:11.476 Well, you're right, and that was a strange thing. They're 0:16:11.516 --> 0:16:15.396 really you didn't really know where to find your own 0:16:15.476 --> 0:16:18.196 tribe because there was all of that going down on 0:16:18.196 --> 0:16:19.716 one part of you know, in one part of town, 0:16:20.356 --> 0:16:24.396 but deeper in the bowels of the city you would 0:16:24.396 --> 0:16:28.276 find bands like Savage Republic six or so guys, one 0:16:28.276 --> 0:16:32.356 of them beaten on a flaming oil drum and seems 0:16:32.356 --> 0:16:34.836 like every guitar was tuned to E and they were 0:16:34.876 --> 0:16:38.276 just going for it, you know. And in that environment 0:16:39.076 --> 0:16:42.396 the band Shiva Burlesque, which was the first band that 0:16:42.476 --> 0:16:45.756 I was involved with with putting together in La we 0:16:45.996 --> 0:16:49.796 came out of that and then we sort of morphed 0:16:49.996 --> 0:16:55.356 into Grantly Buffalo as I took my writing into a 0:16:55.396 --> 0:16:59.476 different place and began to kind of just step up 0:16:59.516 --> 0:17:02.516 to the microphone. Literally, even though I had written songs 0:17:02.516 --> 0:17:04.836 and performed, I kind of took a back seat for 0:17:04.916 --> 0:17:08.436 a period there until I couldn't know more. And yeah, 0:17:08.476 --> 0:17:11.556 so Grantly Buffer all of that that stuff was somewhere 0:17:12.036 --> 0:17:17.076 between ninety and ninety three, wrote a zillion songs, and 0:17:17.116 --> 0:17:21.276 then we signed with Slash Records, and they, as you 0:17:21.516 --> 0:17:23.396 pointed out, and everything they had, they had also kind 0:17:23.396 --> 0:17:26.556 of spawned or signed some of the you know, some 0:17:26.596 --> 0:17:30.076 of the punk bands like the Germs and those those 0:17:30.476 --> 0:17:34.956 more musical punk like bands like X and dream Syndicate 0:17:34.996 --> 0:17:35.476 and that type of. 0:17:35.516 --> 0:17:38.396 Thing, and you it was Bob Mold involved. 0:17:38.916 --> 0:17:42.476 Bob Mold and Nick Hill had a label and it 0:17:42.556 --> 0:17:45.196 was called Sol Singles Only label and they would just 0:17:45.236 --> 0:17:49.236 put out vinyl singles. And they put out this single 0:17:49.316 --> 0:17:53.156 of Fuzzy and that became a song that was played 0:17:53.436 --> 0:17:57.356 a good amount and it kind of became our you know, 0:17:57.436 --> 0:18:01.676 our calling card for for a while, and ultimately I 0:18:01.716 --> 0:18:04.276 think it kind of led to the Bambien signed. 0:18:04.076 --> 0:18:08.356 And then that album came out. You looking back now, 0:18:08.436 --> 0:18:11.356 you got a lot of attention pretty pretty quickly. 0:18:11.756 --> 0:18:15.316 Yeah, I feel like there was a greater wave of music. 0:18:15.756 --> 0:18:18.276 It was sort of like the people at the record 0:18:18.276 --> 0:18:20.996 companies they kind of just stepped out of the room 0:18:21.036 --> 0:18:23.356 for a moment and they let musicians be musicians. 0:18:24.036 --> 0:18:26.116 And you know, some of these. 0:18:25.916 --> 0:18:29.756 Bands had had experienced some sort of ground swell in 0:18:29.796 --> 0:18:32.796 a regional way, you know, everything that was going on 0:18:32.836 --> 0:18:36.916 in Seattle or wherever. And it was a healthy time 0:18:36.956 --> 0:18:39.996 to make music because we weren't so controlled and you know, 0:18:40.076 --> 0:18:44.356 we were producing ourselves and just leave us alone, you know, and. 0:18:45.436 --> 0:18:46.396 It produced good music. 0:18:47.036 --> 0:18:51.876 The band probably got a foothold in Europe much more so, 0:18:52.116 --> 0:18:56.116 especially in the UK, and we toured quite a bit 0:18:56.116 --> 0:18:59.876 in the UK and in other parts of Scandinavia, places 0:18:59.876 --> 0:19:02.316 where I still I still returned to and I'll be 0:19:02.436 --> 0:19:05.036 back in these parts in a few weeks from now, 0:19:05.716 --> 0:19:08.596 really really special places for me, and you know, a 0:19:08.596 --> 0:19:09.476 lot of history there. 0:19:10.396 --> 0:19:15.396 And then the band broke up, Yeah, for queens bad reasons. 0:19:15.116 --> 0:19:17.676 Well, I think, you know, I mean when you stop 0:19:17.716 --> 0:19:21.196 and consider that we have history that goes back before 0:19:21.276 --> 0:19:25.516 Grantly Buffalo and back into Shiva Blasque. So that mixed 0:19:25.516 --> 0:19:29.796 for a pretty long period where we just worked with 0:19:29.836 --> 0:19:35.116 one another, you know, and there's a frustration that sets 0:19:35.156 --> 0:19:38.236 in when in a situation where it doesn't change much, 0:19:38.316 --> 0:19:40.796 you know, and I'm speaking of touring, you know, by 0:19:40.836 --> 0:19:43.756 and large, I think that's a real hard one sometimes 0:19:43.836 --> 0:19:46.716 to deal with when you really, you know, when you 0:19:46.876 --> 0:19:52.916 get your joy from experimenting, from recording and I don't know, 0:19:52.956 --> 0:19:54.076 it's it's a hard. 0:19:53.916 --> 0:19:54.516 One for me. 0:19:55.036 --> 0:19:57.116 I can mix it up by myself, but it's a 0:19:57.116 --> 0:19:58.756 little harder to do that with the band. 0:19:58.836 --> 0:19:59.036 You know. 0:19:59.076 --> 0:20:01.356 We all have to kind of agree on, you know, 0:20:01.516 --> 0:20:04.476 where it's going to go tonight, you know, and where 0:20:04.476 --> 0:20:06.916 it's going to go in general, and in terms of 0:20:06.956 --> 0:20:09.916 our life, you know, you're a six legged beast if 0:20:09.916 --> 0:20:13.116 you're a trio. And for me as a songwriter, I 0:20:13.156 --> 0:20:15.996 mean we basically I was twenty nine, I think when 0:20:16.196 --> 0:20:19.276 we signed our deal at that point, you know, I mean, 0:20:19.316 --> 0:20:22.596 I've been writing songs for a good chunk of my life, 0:20:22.756 --> 0:20:25.036 you know, since I was a teenager, and it's the 0:20:25.116 --> 0:20:27.396 songs that really kind of lead me. I have to 0:20:27.436 --> 0:20:34.876 follow that, and that's sometimes a very solitary kind of thing, 0:20:34.956 --> 0:20:37.156 you know. I don't really write with other folks, you know, 0:20:37.276 --> 0:20:39.996 unless you know, every now and then somebody will ask you, 0:20:39.996 --> 0:20:43.116 don't write a song with me. But it's a solitary thing, 0:20:43.156 --> 0:20:46.236 and it's a very personal kind of kind of path 0:20:46.276 --> 0:20:46.676 as well. 0:20:48.116 --> 0:20:50.916 We'll be back with more from Grantly Phillips after the break. 0:20:55.036 --> 0:20:58.516 Now, when you began your solo career, it was also 0:20:58.556 --> 0:21:02.476 a really interesting time in the calambitus time in the 0:21:02.556 --> 0:21:07.356 music business, just when Napster has come in, right, nobody 0:21:07.356 --> 0:21:10.516 knows what's going to happen to the business. You were 0:21:10.556 --> 0:21:13.076 in this transition at the same time and may have 0:21:13.156 --> 0:21:16.036 had certain expectations going forward, you know, what is the album? 0:21:16.156 --> 0:21:18.396 You know, and all that was being up ended. What 0:21:18.516 --> 0:21:20.876 was it like from your point of view to watch 0:21:20.916 --> 0:21:21.196 all that? 0:21:21.516 --> 0:21:27.276 Yeah, I can remember that that moment, and there there 0:21:27.356 --> 0:21:31.436 was a sense that we were again approaching some big 0:21:31.476 --> 0:21:36.316 transitional point. You know, everyone was screaming about Y two K. Remember, 0:21:38.036 --> 0:21:39.796 you know, are we going to lose our computers? I 0:21:39.836 --> 0:21:42.076 woke up that morning. My garage door wasn't working. 0:21:42.236 --> 0:21:44.556 It's happening. I don't know why. It's starting with my 0:21:44.596 --> 0:21:45.796 garage door opener, but. 0:21:45.916 --> 0:21:50.556 And the machines are rebelling like that like that Beck 0:21:50.676 --> 0:21:56.876 video right where the refrigerator goes crazy. And I wasn't 0:21:56.916 --> 0:22:00.076 so certain where where it was all going. I felt 0:22:00.116 --> 0:22:04.156 like I wanted to embrace, you know, the future. And 0:22:04.516 --> 0:22:06.556 the first thing I did, one of the first things 0:22:06.556 --> 0:22:10.236 I put out was entirely self relis. It was an 0:22:10.236 --> 0:22:13.276 album called Ladies Love Oracle. And I went into my 0:22:13.356 --> 0:22:18.196