1 00:00:15,476 --> 00:00:15,956 Speaker 1: Pushkin. 2 00:00:20,276 --> 00:00:22,556 Speaker 2: Grantly Phillips first made his name in the nineties as 3 00:00:22,596 --> 00:00:26,196 Speaker 2: the frontman of Grant Lee Buffalo, a critically acclaimed band 4 00:00:26,236 --> 00:00:28,996 Speaker 2: that released four albums and toured with Pearl Jam, The 5 00:00:29,036 --> 00:00:33,196 Speaker 2: Smashing Pumpkins, and rim Rolling Stone named Grant Lee Best 6 00:00:33,196 --> 00:00:35,956 Speaker 2: Male Vocalist in ninety four, and his band became known 7 00:00:35,996 --> 00:00:38,876 Speaker 2: for their folk confused rock sound and their reflections on 8 00:00:38,916 --> 00:00:43,236 Speaker 2: American history. After Grantly Buffalo disbanded in ninety nine, Phillips 9 00:00:43,276 --> 00:00:46,796 Speaker 2: launched a solo career, eventually becoming familiar to a wider 10 00:00:46,836 --> 00:00:49,476 Speaker 2: audience through his recurring role as the town troubadour on 11 00:00:49,596 --> 00:00:53,356 Speaker 2: Gilmour Girls. Last September, he released his twelfth solo album, 12 00:00:53,436 --> 00:00:56,276 Speaker 2: and The Hour of Dust. The album's title was inspired 13 00:00:56,276 --> 00:00:59,676 Speaker 2: by an ancient Indian painting grantle Soada Museum in Pasadena 14 00:00:59,796 --> 00:01:02,276 Speaker 2: that depicts the twilight moment when cows are led home 15 00:01:02,356 --> 00:01:05,676 Speaker 2: and kick up dust as night false. On today's episode, 16 00:01:05,716 --> 00:01:08,356 Speaker 2: Bruce Headlem talks to GRANTLYE. Phillips about making in The 17 00:01:08,396 --> 00:01:10,596 Speaker 2: Hour of Dust. He tells the story of how he 18 00:01:10,636 --> 00:01:12,636 Speaker 2: tripped to the Librea tar pits with his old friend 19 00:01:12,636 --> 00:01:16,836 Speaker 2: Michael Stipe, inspired his song American Lions, and he discusses 20 00:01:16,876 --> 00:01:19,756 Speaker 2: his songwriting process and how he approaches writing lyrics that 21 00:01:19,796 --> 00:01:26,756 Speaker 2: balanced the personal with larger societal themes. This is broken record, 22 00:01:27,196 --> 00:01:37,196 Speaker 2: real musicians, real conversations. Here's Bruce Headlam with Grant Welee Phillips. 23 00:01:38,356 --> 00:01:41,316 Speaker 3: You have a new album called in the Hour of Dust, 24 00:01:42,396 --> 00:01:44,436 Speaker 3: and I want to know the story behind the title. 25 00:01:45,236 --> 00:01:45,516 Speaker 4: Man. 26 00:01:45,676 --> 00:01:48,116 Speaker 5: I'll try to make this as concise as I can. 27 00:01:48,836 --> 00:01:53,916 Speaker 5: But I was out in LA where I lived for 28 00:01:54,036 --> 00:01:56,556 Speaker 5: some thirty years something like that. I'm a native Californian, 29 00:01:57,196 --> 00:02:02,596 Speaker 5: but I moved from Stockton, California, to LA in about 30 00:02:02,596 --> 00:02:04,996 Speaker 5: eighty three, I guess. But some years ago I was 31 00:02:05,036 --> 00:02:07,876 Speaker 5: at the Norton Simon Museum of Art. It's a great 32 00:02:07,956 --> 00:02:11,956 Speaker 5: museum in Pasadena, and they had an exhibit paintings from 33 00:02:11,996 --> 00:02:15,756 Speaker 5: India from about the fifteenth century, I think, and one 34 00:02:15,756 --> 00:02:19,436 Speaker 5: of them was called The Hour of cow Dust. This 35 00:02:19,476 --> 00:02:22,756 Speaker 5: is just a really lovely little painting and I love 36 00:02:22,836 --> 00:02:25,556 Speaker 5: that title. And I wrote it down and just kind of, 37 00:02:25,596 --> 00:02:28,756 Speaker 5: you know, set it aside and forgot about it for 38 00:02:28,796 --> 00:02:33,396 Speaker 5: about fifteen years something like that. But it came back 39 00:02:33,436 --> 00:02:37,036 Speaker 5: to me when I was struting to do a lot 40 00:02:37,036 --> 00:02:39,716 Speaker 5: of painting myself, you know, I've always been interested in 41 00:02:39,796 --> 00:02:42,756 Speaker 5: visual art and involved with that, you know, as well 42 00:02:42,756 --> 00:02:46,436 Speaker 5: as songwriting. But I had a particular piece that I 43 00:02:46,476 --> 00:02:48,716 Speaker 5: had painted, and I was asking myself what I want 44 00:02:48,756 --> 00:02:54,476 Speaker 5: to call this, and some part of me was reminded 45 00:02:54,636 --> 00:02:58,476 Speaker 5: of that particular title, the Hour of cow Dust. I 46 00:02:58,476 --> 00:03:00,076 Speaker 5: always wanted to do something with that. I thought it 47 00:03:00,156 --> 00:03:04,516 Speaker 5: might be a song. Who knew. And at the same time, 48 00:03:05,116 --> 00:03:10,756 Speaker 5: I had taken an interest in a Mayormerican Tonalism, the 49 00:03:10,876 --> 00:03:14,996 Speaker 5: art movement that it was dubbed American Tonalism a little 50 00:03:14,996 --> 00:03:20,276 Speaker 5: bit later, but it was roughly the late eighteen hundreds 51 00:03:20,476 --> 00:03:25,036 Speaker 5: posts Civil War, and this is a period where landscape 52 00:03:25,036 --> 00:03:31,476 Speaker 5: painters are preoccupied with the idea of twilight, that transition 53 00:03:31,716 --> 00:03:35,836 Speaker 5: from day to night. And I believe it was sort 54 00:03:35,836 --> 00:03:39,036 Speaker 5: of a metaphor and a way of encompassing some of 55 00:03:39,236 --> 00:03:42,476 Speaker 5: the grief and the confusion in the wake of the 56 00:03:42,916 --> 00:03:45,276 Speaker 5: American Civil War, and. 57 00:03:45,116 --> 00:03:47,236 Speaker 4: All of these things kind of collided. 58 00:03:47,596 --> 00:03:51,236 Speaker 5: And that title kind of leapt forward, you know, in 59 00:03:51,316 --> 00:03:55,596 Speaker 5: the hour of Dust, a moment of confusion, working your 60 00:03:55,636 --> 00:03:59,436 Speaker 5: way through the blinding sands of unreality. 61 00:04:00,556 --> 00:04:04,036 Speaker 3: So why was the Indian painting called cow Dust? What 62 00:04:04,076 --> 00:04:04,636 Speaker 3: does that mean. 63 00:04:05,316 --> 00:04:07,516 Speaker 4: Well, that's a great question that. 64 00:04:07,796 --> 00:04:10,516 Speaker 5: Has to do with this, this moment in the day 65 00:04:11,156 --> 00:04:14,116 Speaker 5: when the cows are led back home and in doing so, 66 00:04:15,316 --> 00:04:19,116 Speaker 5: their hoofs kick up the dust, right, and we're blinded 67 00:04:19,156 --> 00:04:21,836 Speaker 5: by that dust. And it's that moment when we have 68 00:04:21,916 --> 00:04:25,156 Speaker 5: to light the lanterns, we have to prepare for night. 69 00:04:25,516 --> 00:04:26,596 Speaker 4: Night is about to fall. 70 00:04:27,076 --> 00:04:29,396 Speaker 5: So I thought, well, there it is. You know, it's 71 00:04:29,436 --> 00:04:30,316 Speaker 5: that theme again. 72 00:04:31,116 --> 00:04:33,436 Speaker 3: You, as well as being interested in art, you are 73 00:04:33,476 --> 00:04:39,156 Speaker 3: a very impressionistic lyric writer. For the most part, this 74 00:04:39,196 --> 00:04:42,796 Speaker 3: album's a little different. The songwriting is more direct here. 75 00:04:43,036 --> 00:04:45,796 Speaker 4: I think, Yeah, that's possible. I think. 76 00:04:46,796 --> 00:04:49,396 Speaker 5: I think I've always been trying to be as direct 77 00:04:49,556 --> 00:04:53,596 Speaker 5: as I could and not realizing that I have somehow 78 00:04:53,716 --> 00:04:59,716 Speaker 5: veered into the metaphor that happens as well. Maybe with age, 79 00:05:00,036 --> 00:05:03,516 Speaker 5: with doing it over and over, some clarity comes with that. 80 00:05:04,716 --> 00:05:08,596 Speaker 3: Yeah, a song like you Know she Knows Me? Yeah, 81 00:05:08,716 --> 00:05:12,076 Speaker 3: it's got a beautiful image of you a kite flying 82 00:05:12,116 --> 00:05:16,516 Speaker 3: out a window, but it's it's it's a love song. Yeah, 83 00:05:16,556 --> 00:05:20,796 Speaker 3: Bullies is a song about bullies, little men, No mistaking 84 00:05:21,076 --> 00:05:24,316 Speaker 3: is it's a great love song. Yeah, in a much 85 00:05:24,356 --> 00:05:26,556 Speaker 3: more direct in a much more direct way. Was that 86 00:05:27,396 --> 00:05:28,556 Speaker 3: was that deliberate or is this. 87 00:05:28,516 --> 00:05:29,916 Speaker 1: Is this is just what you're feeling. 88 00:05:30,996 --> 00:05:33,716 Speaker 5: It's deliberate, It's what I'm feeling. I don't believe that 89 00:05:33,756 --> 00:05:37,396 Speaker 5: it's altogether new, though, I'm I if you look through 90 00:05:38,356 --> 00:05:42,436 Speaker 5: a certain degree of my work, my solo albums especially, 91 00:05:42,516 --> 00:05:45,836 Speaker 5: I guess you know, Post Grantly Buffalo, there are songs 92 00:05:45,916 --> 00:05:49,876 Speaker 5: like Heavenly, Heavenly and Truly Truly, I guess all the 93 00:05:51,116 --> 00:05:56,476 Speaker 5: double the double titled songs, you know, trying to hammer 94 00:05:56,476 --> 00:05:58,556 Speaker 5: the point home there. I guess I'll sing it again. 95 00:05:59,596 --> 00:06:01,636 Speaker 1: You know, I can't think of another word that's right. 96 00:06:01,996 --> 00:06:05,156 Speaker 5: I think I've always kind of walked that line, I guess, 97 00:06:05,276 --> 00:06:09,356 Speaker 5: And for me, kind of citing citing those things that 98 00:06:09,436 --> 00:06:14,036 Speaker 5: are meaningful to me is a way of kind of 99 00:06:14,036 --> 00:06:17,596 Speaker 5: of honoring all that I do care about, you know, 100 00:06:18,436 --> 00:06:21,196 Speaker 5: all of the tenderness of life that seems to get 101 00:06:21,316 --> 00:06:25,316 Speaker 5: pushed to the side sometimes in this state of constant 102 00:06:25,916 --> 00:06:29,396 Speaker 5: panic that we find ourselves in. You know, So I 103 00:06:29,516 --> 00:06:32,316 Speaker 5: choose to sing about those things that keep me up 104 00:06:32,316 --> 00:06:36,076 Speaker 5: at night. But I also I'm aware of what I'd 105 00:06:36,156 --> 00:06:40,156 Speaker 5: rather be focused on, you know, and that's the stuff 106 00:06:40,156 --> 00:06:40,556 Speaker 5: of life. 107 00:06:40,636 --> 00:06:41,036 Speaker 4: As well. 108 00:06:41,556 --> 00:06:45,116 Speaker 1: So I mentioned the song she Knows Me? 109 00:06:45,436 --> 00:06:49,396 Speaker 3: Yeah, and it does have this wonderful image of you 110 00:06:49,476 --> 00:06:53,876 Speaker 3: as a kite being swept out the window and the 111 00:06:53,876 --> 00:06:56,036 Speaker 3: person in your life knows how to get you down 112 00:06:56,076 --> 00:06:58,876 Speaker 3: from the telephone wires. Did you get stuck on? Yeah, 113 00:06:58,956 --> 00:07:01,996 Speaker 3: a song like that? Did it start with a simple 114 00:07:02,036 --> 00:07:06,196 Speaker 3: thought she knows Me? Or did that image begin? How 115 00:07:06,236 --> 00:07:08,716 Speaker 3: did How did a song like that come together? 116 00:07:09,476 --> 00:07:12,836 Speaker 5: My experience is that the best songs they leave me 117 00:07:12,876 --> 00:07:15,356 Speaker 5: a little bit confused, and I can't remember writing them, 118 00:07:15,556 --> 00:07:18,396 Speaker 5: you know, I can't remember how they were written. I 119 00:07:18,396 --> 00:07:22,196 Speaker 5: can remember being It's like it's like recalling being abducted 120 00:07:22,316 --> 00:07:24,996 Speaker 5: or something, isn't it. I was on I was on 121 00:07:25,276 --> 00:07:29,196 Speaker 5: a country road and there was a light and I 122 00:07:29,276 --> 00:07:34,396 Speaker 5: was backstage in Dublin and I was, you know, kind 123 00:07:34,396 --> 00:07:36,916 Speaker 5: of plunking on the guitar and I landed on these 124 00:07:37,036 --> 00:07:39,836 Speaker 5: chords and I began to kind of sing, and in 125 00:07:39,836 --> 00:07:42,796 Speaker 5: that state of nerves that you get before you go on, 126 00:07:43,436 --> 00:07:45,956 Speaker 5: I realized, Hey, there's a song here, there's something, something's 127 00:07:45,956 --> 00:07:50,396 Speaker 5: happening here. I'll sing it into my phone and I did, 128 00:07:50,756 --> 00:07:52,716 Speaker 5: and then I kind of just kept singing. It never 129 00:07:52,756 --> 00:07:55,916 Speaker 5: really never you know, really putting too much thought into 130 00:07:56,036 --> 00:08:00,116 Speaker 5: it at soundcheck, and gosh, maybe a month or so later, 131 00:08:00,836 --> 00:08:05,276 Speaker 5: turned on the tape, the digital tape, and it all 132 00:08:05,516 --> 00:08:08,396 Speaker 5: just kind of fell out, you know. But I kind 133 00:08:08,396 --> 00:08:10,996 Speaker 5: of I have found that that is a good way 134 00:08:11,036 --> 00:08:13,516 Speaker 5: for me to work, you know, because this is such 135 00:08:13,556 --> 00:08:17,436 Speaker 5: as a verbal medium, and the songs exist as we're 136 00:08:17,436 --> 00:08:20,756 Speaker 5: talking now, you know, I as opposed to like the 137 00:08:20,796 --> 00:08:23,196 Speaker 5: songs having this separate life on a sheet of paper, 138 00:08:23,796 --> 00:08:27,676 Speaker 5: I would much rather use the microphone as my my quill. 139 00:08:28,356 --> 00:08:31,636 Speaker 5: And often I'll do that when I feel like, you know, 140 00:08:31,796 --> 00:08:33,676 Speaker 5: this is just not singing right, let me just turn 141 00:08:34,196 --> 00:08:36,316 Speaker 5: And you know, I've heard that Bowie would do that 142 00:08:36,436 --> 00:08:39,116 Speaker 5: as well, you know, trying to work his way through 143 00:08:39,236 --> 00:08:43,636 Speaker 5: phrase after phrase until it felt natural and it felt 144 00:08:43,756 --> 00:08:44,756 Speaker 5: right and you can. 145 00:08:44,676 --> 00:08:45,796 Speaker 4: Just trust that process. 146 00:08:46,436 --> 00:08:49,036 Speaker 3: Is that process for you, a short one, a long one? 147 00:08:49,756 --> 00:08:50,916 Speaker 4: Both? It can is. 148 00:08:51,436 --> 00:08:57,236 Speaker 5: It's usually the case of one wonderful spasm of a song, 149 00:08:57,836 --> 00:09:00,836 Speaker 5: but if it isn't completed in that moment, I might 150 00:09:00,876 --> 00:09:04,196 Speaker 5: have to wait until the next occasion for you know, 151 00:09:04,236 --> 00:09:05,996 Speaker 5: to pick it up where I left off. And that 152 00:09:06,036 --> 00:09:09,356 Speaker 5: too can be kind of spasmodic or just you know, 153 00:09:09,436 --> 00:09:12,156 Speaker 5: the case of getting in the car and singing along 154 00:09:12,236 --> 00:09:13,796 Speaker 5: and then it hits me. 155 00:09:13,876 --> 00:09:16,076 Speaker 4: You know, I really have. 156 00:09:16,756 --> 00:09:18,716 Speaker 5: I have learned to try to get out of my 157 00:09:18,756 --> 00:09:21,356 Speaker 5: own way and that case, you know, let the song 158 00:09:21,436 --> 00:09:24,556 Speaker 5: kind of write itself, and it does it most always done. 159 00:09:25,636 --> 00:09:26,476 Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah. 160 00:09:26,476 --> 00:09:30,156 Speaker 5: If I use my voice as kind of the skeleton 161 00:09:30,236 --> 00:09:33,716 Speaker 5: key that that usually seems to work out the best. 162 00:09:33,916 --> 00:09:37,116 Speaker 5: You know, like automatic writing, but using your voice, you know, 163 00:09:37,276 --> 00:09:39,756 Speaker 5: it doesn't all have to exist with your wrist. 164 00:09:39,596 --> 00:09:42,756 Speaker 3: And then do you you filled in the chords around 165 00:09:42,796 --> 00:09:44,356 Speaker 3: that doesn't have to exist with your wrists. 166 00:09:44,356 --> 00:09:46,356 Speaker 4: See it happened right here in the room. 167 00:09:47,556 --> 00:09:49,196 Speaker 3: I thank god we're surrounded by microphone. 168 00:09:49,236 --> 00:09:51,956 Speaker 5: I think they've never written such a genius line like that. 169 00:09:52,236 --> 00:09:58,996 Speaker 3: Yeah, you have very distinctive melodies. There's usually a few 170 00:09:59,396 --> 00:10:02,396 Speaker 3: intervals that aren't usual. There's a lot of chromatic lines. 171 00:10:02,436 --> 00:10:05,396 Speaker 3: And what you write. Is that something you work on 172 00:10:05,436 --> 00:10:07,636 Speaker 3: with songs or is it something that's just where your 173 00:10:07,716 --> 00:10:08,276 Speaker 3: voice goes. 174 00:10:08,356 --> 00:10:10,476 Speaker 5: I think it's where my voice and where my my 175 00:10:10,636 --> 00:10:12,076 Speaker 5: fingers go, where my ears go. 176 00:10:12,196 --> 00:10:12,876 Speaker 4: I guess, you know. 177 00:10:13,516 --> 00:10:17,036 Speaker 5: I like exploring with the guitar, like making discoveries, and 178 00:10:17,916 --> 00:10:21,436 Speaker 5: you know, sometimes sometimes I do get under the hood 179 00:10:21,436 --> 00:10:24,076 Speaker 5: of some some song that I've always been mesmerized by, 180 00:10:24,156 --> 00:10:26,516 Speaker 5: you know, like, how do you play stardust? You know, 181 00:10:27,156 --> 00:10:29,756 Speaker 5: everything that's you know, under the under the stars. You know, 182 00:10:29,796 --> 00:10:33,676 Speaker 5: there's so much music you can explore and and sometimes 183 00:10:33,716 --> 00:10:35,956 Speaker 5: when you get it wrong, you wind up discovering something 184 00:10:35,956 --> 00:10:37,796 Speaker 5: else and that can be my song. 185 00:10:38,516 --> 00:10:42,476 Speaker 3: Do you Is that something you'll do, like you'll you'll 186 00:10:42,516 --> 00:10:44,516 Speaker 3: sing another song and you'll get a germ of an 187 00:10:44,516 --> 00:10:45,156 Speaker 3: idea from that. 188 00:10:46,116 --> 00:10:48,236 Speaker 4: I suppose that's. Yeah, that's possible. 189 00:10:48,756 --> 00:10:53,396 Speaker 5: It's more indirect though, It's it's more like sort of 190 00:10:53,436 --> 00:10:56,236 Speaker 5: like this, like like the album title, whatever time I 191 00:10:56,316 --> 00:10:58,796 Speaker 5: spent a few years back trying to work out some 192 00:10:58,876 --> 00:11:02,956 Speaker 5: strange chord and stardust, it might reappear and inspire me 193 00:11:03,436 --> 00:11:06,556 Speaker 5: down the road, you know. Rodney Krause said something like that, 194 00:11:06,596 --> 00:11:10,436 Speaker 5: like he played in bands where they had play helped 195 00:11:10,436 --> 00:11:13,396 Speaker 5: me make it through the night, you know, And he said, 196 00:11:13,396 --> 00:11:15,716 Speaker 5: if I hadn't done that, then I probably wouldn't have 197 00:11:15,756 --> 00:11:19,516 Speaker 5: written Leaving the Louisiana and the Pale Moonlighter. You know, 198 00:11:20,156 --> 00:11:22,956 Speaker 5: these kind of things they have a way of kind 199 00:11:22,996 --> 00:11:27,596 Speaker 5: of creeping to the surface years later. You know, that's 200 00:11:27,716 --> 00:11:30,596 Speaker 5: part of the magic of this whole thing is you know, 201 00:11:30,756 --> 00:11:34,516 Speaker 5: kind of you know, kind of lighting the right incense 202 00:11:34,596 --> 00:11:38,676 Speaker 5: and and just seeing seeing what happens, and and you know, 203 00:11:39,276 --> 00:11:42,196 Speaker 5: I like that the spontaneity of it. And there's always 204 00:11:42,236 --> 00:11:44,996 Speaker 5: a place to chip away. And there are great artists 205 00:11:44,996 --> 00:11:49,596 Speaker 5: who who are who skillfully craft their work, you know, 206 00:11:49,676 --> 00:11:52,676 Speaker 5: and and and continue to refine it. I'm not sure 207 00:11:52,716 --> 00:11:55,236 Speaker 5: where I exist in that spectrum, you know. I mean 208 00:11:55,236 --> 00:11:58,436 Speaker 5: I have a level of of you know, I have 209 00:11:58,476 --> 00:12:03,236 Speaker 5: a critical ear as well, but uh, my ear becomes 210 00:12:03,396 --> 00:12:06,916 Speaker 5: more critical when it feels as though it was forced 211 00:12:07,556 --> 00:12:10,396 Speaker 5: or it wasn't natural, or you know, uh it wasn't 212 00:12:10,436 --> 00:12:11,276 Speaker 5: accidental enough. 213 00:12:11,996 --> 00:12:15,356 Speaker 3: Have you have you become more critical as you've gotten older? 214 00:12:15,476 --> 00:12:16,196 Speaker 3: Less critical? 215 00:12:17,356 --> 00:12:22,036 Speaker 5: I think, if anything, I've become a little more trusting 216 00:12:22,116 --> 00:12:26,916 Speaker 5: in the process, less ruled by anxiety. I guess, you know, 217 00:12:26,956 --> 00:12:29,156 Speaker 5: the idea that I don't know. Sometimes you can get 218 00:12:29,196 --> 00:12:32,156 Speaker 5: yourself into kind of a loop where the idea of 219 00:12:32,236 --> 00:12:35,116 Speaker 5: like that you won't finish the song creeps in or 220 00:12:35,236 --> 00:12:37,236 Speaker 5: maybe this is the last record, that kind of thing. 221 00:12:37,276 --> 00:12:38,956 Speaker 5: But even if that was the case, that's you know, 222 00:12:39,076 --> 00:12:44,036 Speaker 5: that's probably acceptable. I would find something else to write about. 223 00:12:44,116 --> 00:12:47,476 Speaker 5: You know what seems like my critical mind is often 224 00:12:47,556 --> 00:12:48,716 Speaker 5: just anxiety. 225 00:12:48,236 --> 00:12:53,116 Speaker 1: Anyhow, mm hm, anxiety over careers. 226 00:12:53,236 --> 00:12:57,996 Speaker 4: Any number of things. Uh uh yeah, I think that's. 227 00:12:57,836 --> 00:13:00,556 Speaker 5: That's that's the kind of the pleasure in music is 228 00:13:00,916 --> 00:13:03,636 Speaker 5: setting setting those things aside. It's the thing that I've 229 00:13:03,636 --> 00:13:07,236 Speaker 5: always you know, when everything was crazy kind of growing 230 00:13:07,316 --> 00:13:10,596 Speaker 5: up in my house, I turned to the guitar and 231 00:13:10,796 --> 00:13:14,716 Speaker 5: put on the headphones and kind of lose myself in music. 232 00:13:15,516 --> 00:13:17,996 Speaker 4: It was that, you know, that sense of comfort. 233 00:13:18,276 --> 00:13:20,076 Speaker 1: Did you grow up in a crazy house? 234 00:13:20,636 --> 00:13:22,636 Speaker 5: A crazy house that was a you know, my parents 235 00:13:22,636 --> 00:13:24,196 Speaker 5: are young, and it seems like there were you know, 236 00:13:24,236 --> 00:13:28,436 Speaker 5: there were always voices being raised, but there were also 237 00:13:28,676 --> 00:13:30,996 Speaker 5: you know, there were good songs playing in the house too. 238 00:13:31,316 --> 00:13:35,836 Speaker 5: My dad loved country music. I have exposed to Merle 239 00:13:35,876 --> 00:13:39,116 Speaker 5: Haggart and Charlie Pride and all that kind of stuff. 240 00:13:39,116 --> 00:13:42,236 Speaker 5: My mother was more of a like a carpenter's fan, 241 00:13:43,116 --> 00:13:45,956 Speaker 5: you know. But it was a golden era in terms 242 00:13:45,956 --> 00:13:49,036 Speaker 5: of great melodic, depressing songs. 243 00:13:49,756 --> 00:13:51,356 Speaker 1: What made you discover the guitar? 244 00:13:52,156 --> 00:13:54,996 Speaker 5: Well, I can remember sitting back with the family and 245 00:13:55,036 --> 00:13:57,996 Speaker 5: we would watch guys like Roy Clark, you know, just 246 00:13:58,116 --> 00:14:02,156 Speaker 5: kind of just shred and everyone was so mesmerized, and 247 00:14:02,196 --> 00:14:03,916 Speaker 5: I was as well, and I wanted to do that, 248 00:14:03,996 --> 00:14:06,156 Speaker 5: you know, I wanted to learn how to make sounds 249 00:14:06,196 --> 00:14:09,676 Speaker 5: like that, play Ghostwriters in the Sky, you know, really 250 00:14:09,676 --> 00:14:12,156 Speaker 5: simple ambitions, you know, I mean to play it like 251 00:14:12,236 --> 00:14:15,316 Speaker 5: Roy Clark is a whole other level of ambition. And 252 00:14:15,556 --> 00:14:18,036 Speaker 5: what I found was that as soon as I picked 253 00:14:18,076 --> 00:14:20,916 Speaker 5: up the guitar and learned a chord or to, I 254 00:14:20,996 --> 00:14:24,076 Speaker 5: began to I began to write songs soon after. 255 00:14:24,156 --> 00:14:25,676 Speaker 4: So I'm in high. 256 00:14:25,476 --> 00:14:29,196 Speaker 5: School, I'm fourteen, fifteen something like that, and I've just 257 00:14:29,236 --> 00:14:31,956 Speaker 5: got a song after song that I'm writing. And it 258 00:14:31,996 --> 00:14:33,996 Speaker 5: was a good time to have your ears open and 259 00:14:34,076 --> 00:14:35,596 Speaker 5: discover all kinds. 260 00:14:35,396 --> 00:14:36,156 Speaker 4: Of music, you know. 261 00:14:36,316 --> 00:14:40,036 Speaker 5: I mean things were kind of blasting off overseas, you know, 262 00:14:40,196 --> 00:14:44,956 Speaker 5: Elvis Costello and great songwriters like that, bands like The Clash. 263 00:14:45,036 --> 00:14:48,356 Speaker 5: But also discovering Neil Young around that time. That was 264 00:14:48,396 --> 00:14:51,476 Speaker 5: a big one for me. Yeah, seeing him by himself 265 00:14:51,836 --> 00:14:54,956 Speaker 5: at the Cow Palace in San Francisco. Yeah, that made 266 00:14:54,996 --> 00:14:55,756 Speaker 5: a real impact. 267 00:14:56,196 --> 00:14:59,236 Speaker 3: You were in LA when you formed Grantly Buffalo. Yeah, 268 00:14:59,316 --> 00:15:01,236 Speaker 3: so tell me were you playing around town? 269 00:15:01,316 --> 00:15:05,516 Speaker 5: What was the Yeah, we played everywhere around town. 270 00:15:05,636 --> 00:15:06,116 Speaker 4: You know, I. 271 00:15:07,636 --> 00:15:10,676 Speaker 5: Moved to LA three, and there was all this stuff 272 00:15:10,716 --> 00:15:13,516 Speaker 5: going on, you know, a lot of underground stuff, and 273 00:15:13,676 --> 00:15:15,996 Speaker 5: we kind of grew up out of that, you know, 274 00:15:16,436 --> 00:15:19,436 Speaker 5: playing these these little clubs and some of them you 275 00:15:19,436 --> 00:15:22,556 Speaker 5: would get a gig at midnight downtown, you know, Al's, 276 00:15:22,636 --> 00:15:25,276 Speaker 5: bar Raji's, all of these these clubs that a lot 277 00:15:25,316 --> 00:15:28,316 Speaker 5: of well known bands, you know, kind of legendary bands 278 00:15:28,316 --> 00:15:32,196 Speaker 5: now also kind of cut their teeth in Largo then 279 00:15:32,276 --> 00:15:36,756 Speaker 5: called Cafe Largo on Fairfax was a it was more 280 00:15:36,756 --> 00:15:41,716 Speaker 5: of a cabaret actually, and that's kind of what where 281 00:15:41,756 --> 00:15:44,836 Speaker 5: we came out of mostly, you know, and kind of 282 00:15:44,836 --> 00:15:48,156 Speaker 5: playing maybe too loud at times for that room and 283 00:15:48,356 --> 00:15:50,396 Speaker 5: pushing the edge, but that's kind of the that's. 284 00:15:50,196 --> 00:15:51,196 Speaker 4: The secret really, you know. 285 00:15:51,236 --> 00:15:55,476 Speaker 5: It's that kind of steam kettle kind of concept where 286 00:15:55,476 --> 00:15:57,396 Speaker 5: there's a little more force than you know, and that 287 00:15:57,516 --> 00:15:58,476 Speaker 5: blows the lid off and. 288 00:15:58,436 --> 00:15:59,916 Speaker 4: It's very exciting, you know. 289 00:16:00,156 --> 00:16:03,516 Speaker 3: I tend to think of LA at that time being 290 00:16:03,756 --> 00:16:07,796 Speaker 3: like the punk scene, maybe like hair metal bands. I 291 00:16:07,796 --> 00:16:08,876 Speaker 3: don't think of it being. 292 00:16:08,796 --> 00:16:11,476 Speaker 5: Well, you're right, and that was a strange thing. They're 293 00:16:11,516 --> 00:16:15,396 Speaker 5: really you didn't really know where to find your own 294 00:16:15,476 --> 00:16:18,196 Speaker 5: tribe because there was all of that going down on 295 00:16:18,196 --> 00:16:19,716 Speaker 5: one part of you know, in one part of town, 296 00:16:20,356 --> 00:16:24,396 Speaker 5: but deeper in the bowels of the city you would 297 00:16:24,396 --> 00:16:28,276 Speaker 5: find bands like Savage Republic six or so guys, one 298 00:16:28,276 --> 00:16:32,356 Speaker 5: of them beaten on a flaming oil drum and seems 299 00:16:32,356 --> 00:16:34,836 Speaker 5: like every guitar was tuned to E and they were 300 00:16:34,876 --> 00:16:38,276 Speaker 5: just going for it, you know. And in that environment 301 00:16:39,076 --> 00:16:42,396 Speaker 5: the band Shiva Burlesque, which was the first band that 302 00:16:42,476 --> 00:16:45,756 Speaker 5: I was involved with with putting together in La we 303 00:16:45,996 --> 00:16:49,796 Speaker 5: came out of that and then we sort of morphed 304 00:16:49,996 --> 00:16:55,356 Speaker 5: into Grantly Buffalo as I took my writing into a 305 00:16:55,396 --> 00:16:59,476 Speaker 5: different place and began to kind of just step up 306 00:16:59,516 --> 00:17:02,516 Speaker 5: to the microphone. Literally, even though I had written songs 307 00:17:02,516 --> 00:17:04,836 Speaker 5: and performed, I kind of took a back seat for 308 00:17:04,916 --> 00:17:08,436 Speaker 5: a period there until I couldn't know more. And yeah, 309 00:17:08,476 --> 00:17:11,556 Speaker 5: so Grantly Buffer all of that that stuff was somewhere 310 00:17:12,036 --> 00:17:17,076 Speaker 5: between ninety and ninety three, wrote a zillion songs, and 311 00:17:17,116 --> 00:17:21,276 Speaker 5: then we signed with Slash Records, and they, as you 312 00:17:21,516 --> 00:17:23,396 Speaker 5: pointed out, and everything they had, they had also kind 313 00:17:23,396 --> 00:17:26,556 Speaker 5: of spawned or signed some of the you know, some 314 00:17:26,596 --> 00:17:30,076 Speaker 5: of the punk bands like the Germs and those those 315 00:17:30,476 --> 00:17:34,956 Speaker 5: more musical punk like bands like X and dream Syndicate 316 00:17:34,996 --> 00:17:35,476 Speaker 5: and that type of. 317 00:17:35,516 --> 00:17:38,396 Speaker 1: Thing, and you it was Bob Mold involved. 318 00:17:38,916 --> 00:17:42,476 Speaker 5: Bob Mold and Nick Hill had a label and it 319 00:17:42,556 --> 00:17:45,196 Speaker 5: was called Sol Singles Only label and they would just 320 00:17:45,236 --> 00:17:49,236 Speaker 5: put out vinyl singles. And they put out this single 321 00:17:49,316 --> 00:17:53,156 Speaker 5: of Fuzzy and that became a song that was played 322 00:17:53,436 --> 00:17:57,356 Speaker 5: a good amount and it kind of became our you know, 323 00:17:57,436 --> 00:18:01,676 Speaker 5: our calling card for for a while, and ultimately I 324 00:18:01,716 --> 00:18:04,276 Speaker 5: think it kind of led to the Bambien signed. 325 00:18:04,076 --> 00:18:08,356 Speaker 3: And then that album came out. You looking back now, 326 00:18:08,436 --> 00:18:11,356 Speaker 3: you got a lot of attention pretty pretty quickly. 327 00:18:11,756 --> 00:18:15,316 Speaker 5: Yeah, I feel like there was a greater wave of music. 328 00:18:15,756 --> 00:18:18,276 Speaker 5: It was sort of like the people at the record 329 00:18:18,276 --> 00:18:20,996 Speaker 5: companies they kind of just stepped out of the room 330 00:18:21,036 --> 00:18:23,356 Speaker 5: for a moment and they let musicians be musicians. 331 00:18:24,036 --> 00:18:26,116 Speaker 4: And you know, some of these. 332 00:18:25,916 --> 00:18:29,756 Speaker 5: Bands had had experienced some sort of ground swell in 333 00:18:29,796 --> 00:18:32,796 Speaker 5: a regional way, you know, everything that was going on 334 00:18:32,836 --> 00:18:36,916 Speaker 5: in Seattle or wherever. And it was a healthy time 335 00:18:36,956 --> 00:18:39,996 Speaker 5: to make music because we weren't so controlled and you know, 336 00:18:40,076 --> 00:18:44,356 Speaker 5: we were producing ourselves and just leave us alone, you know, and. 337 00:18:45,436 --> 00:18:46,396 Speaker 4: It produced good music. 338 00:18:47,036 --> 00:18:51,876 Speaker 5: The band probably got a foothold in Europe much more so, 339 00:18:52,116 --> 00:18:56,116 Speaker 5: especially in the UK, and we toured quite a bit 340 00:18:56,116 --> 00:18:59,876 Speaker 5: in the UK and in other parts of Scandinavia, places 341 00:18:59,876 --> 00:19:02,316 Speaker 5: where I still I still returned to and I'll be 342 00:19:02,436 --> 00:19:05,036 Speaker 5: back in these parts in a few weeks from now, 343 00:19:05,716 --> 00:19:08,596 Speaker 5: really really special places for me, and you know, a 344 00:19:08,596 --> 00:19:09,476 Speaker 5: lot of history there. 345 00:19:10,396 --> 00:19:15,396 Speaker 3: And then the band broke up, Yeah, for queens bad reasons. 346 00:19:15,116 --> 00:19:17,676 Speaker 5: Well, I think, you know, I mean when you stop 347 00:19:17,716 --> 00:19:21,196 Speaker 5: and consider that we have history that goes back before 348 00:19:21,276 --> 00:19:25,516 Speaker 5: Grantly Buffalo and back into Shiva Blasque. So that mixed 349 00:19:25,516 --> 00:19:29,796 Speaker 5: for a pretty long period where we just worked with 350 00:19:29,836 --> 00:19:35,116 Speaker 5: one another, you know, and there's a frustration that sets 351 00:19:35,156 --> 00:19:38,236 Speaker 5: in when in a situation where it doesn't change much, 352 00:19:38,316 --> 00:19:40,796 Speaker 5: you know, and I'm speaking of touring, you know, by 353 00:19:40,836 --> 00:19:43,756 Speaker 5: and large, I think that's a real hard one sometimes 354 00:19:43,836 --> 00:19:46,716 Speaker 5: to deal with when you really, you know, when you 355 00:19:46,876 --> 00:19:52,916 Speaker 5: get your joy from experimenting, from recording and I don't know, 356 00:19:52,956 --> 00:19:54,076 Speaker 5: it's it's a hard. 357 00:19:53,916 --> 00:19:54,516 Speaker 4: One for me. 358 00:19:55,036 --> 00:19:57,116 Speaker 5: I can mix it up by myself, but it's a 359 00:19:57,116 --> 00:19:58,756 Speaker 5: little harder to do that with the band. 360 00:19:58,836 --> 00:19:59,036 Speaker 4: You know. 361 00:19:59,076 --> 00:20:01,356 Speaker 5: We all have to kind of agree on, you know, 362 00:20:01,516 --> 00:20:04,476 Speaker 5: where it's going to go tonight, you know, and where 363 00:20:04,476 --> 00:20:06,916 Speaker 5: it's going to go in general, and in terms of 364 00:20:06,956 --> 00:20:09,916 Speaker 5: our life, you know, you're a six legged beast if 365 00:20:09,916 --> 00:20:13,116 Speaker 5: you're a trio. And for me as a songwriter, I 366 00:20:13,156 --> 00:20:15,996 Speaker 5: mean we basically I was twenty nine, I think when 367 00:20:16,196 --> 00:20:19,276 Speaker 5: we signed our deal at that point, you know, I mean, 368 00:20:19,316 --> 00:20:22,596 Speaker 5: I've been writing songs for a good chunk of my life, 369 00:20:22,756 --> 00:20:25,036 Speaker 5: you know, since I was a teenager, and it's the 370 00:20:25,116 --> 00:20:27,396 Speaker 5: songs that really kind of lead me. I have to 371 00:20:27,436 --> 00:20:34,876 Speaker 5: follow that, and that's sometimes a very solitary kind of thing, 372 00:20:34,956 --> 00:20:37,156 Speaker 5: you know. I don't really write with other folks, you know, 373 00:20:37,276 --> 00:20:39,996 Speaker 5: unless you know, every now and then somebody will ask you, 374 00:20:39,996 --> 00:20:43,116 Speaker 5: don't write a song with me. But it's a solitary thing, 375 00:20:43,156 --> 00:20:46,236 Speaker 5: and it's a very personal kind of kind of path 376 00:20:46,276 --> 00:20:46,676 Speaker 5: as well. 377 00:20:48,116 --> 00:20:50,916 Speaker 2: We'll be back with more from Grantly Phillips after the break. 378 00:20:55,036 --> 00:20:58,516 Speaker 3: Now, when you began your solo career, it was also 379 00:20:58,556 --> 00:21:02,476 Speaker 3: a really interesting time in the calambitus time in the 380 00:21:02,556 --> 00:21:07,356 Speaker 3: music business, just when Napster has come in, right, nobody 381 00:21:07,356 --> 00:21:10,516 Speaker 3: knows what's going to happen to the business. You were 382 00:21:10,556 --> 00:21:13,076 Speaker 3: in this transition at the same time and may have 383 00:21:13,156 --> 00:21:16,036 Speaker 3: had certain expectations going forward, you know, what is the album? 384 00:21:16,156 --> 00:21:18,396 Speaker 3: You know, and all that was being up ended. What 385 00:21:18,516 --> 00:21:20,876 Speaker 3: was it like from your point of view to watch 386 00:21:20,916 --> 00:21:21,196 Speaker 3: all that? 387 00:21:21,516 --> 00:21:27,276 Speaker 5: Yeah, I can remember that that moment, and there there 388 00:21:27,356 --> 00:21:31,436 Speaker 5: was a sense that we were again approaching some big 389 00:21:31,476 --> 00:21:36,316 Speaker 5: transitional point. You know, everyone was screaming about Y two K. Remember, 390 00:21:38,036 --> 00:21:39,796 Speaker 5: you know, are we going to lose our computers? I 391 00:21:39,836 --> 00:21:42,076 Speaker 5: woke up that morning. My garage door wasn't working. 392 00:21:42,236 --> 00:21:44,556 Speaker 4: It's happening. I don't know why. It's starting with my 393 00:21:44,596 --> 00:21:45,796 Speaker 4: garage door opener, but. 394 00:21:45,916 --> 00:21:50,556 Speaker 5: And the machines are rebelling like that like that Beck 395 00:21:50,676 --> 00:21:56,876 Speaker 5: video right where the refrigerator goes crazy. And I wasn't 396 00:21:56,916 --> 00:22:00,076 Speaker 5: so certain where where it was all going. I felt 397 00:22:00,116 --> 00:22:04,156 Speaker 5: like I wanted to embrace, you know, the future. And 398 00:22:04,516 --> 00:22:06,556 Speaker 5: the first thing I did, one of the first things 399 00:22:06,556 --> 00:22:10,236 Speaker 5: I put out was entirely self relis. It was an 400 00:22:10,236 --> 00:22:13,276 Speaker 5: album called Ladies Love Oracle. And I went into my 401 00:22:13,356 --> 00:22:18,196 Speaker 5: friend John Bryan in great musician composer, and he had 402 00:22:18,196 --> 00:22:20,796 Speaker 5: a studio he'd built in his house, and he said, 403 00:22:20,836 --> 00:22:24,196 Speaker 5: you know, I'm working on this soundtrack. The soundtrack was Magnolia, 404 00:22:25,036 --> 00:22:27,356 Speaker 5: but here's you know, go ahead and go up to 405 00:22:27,436 --> 00:22:29,516 Speaker 5: my studio and you know, have fun this week and 406 00:22:30,276 --> 00:22:31,036 Speaker 5: whatever you want to do. 407 00:22:31,156 --> 00:22:31,356 Speaker 6: You know. 408 00:22:31,996 --> 00:22:34,396 Speaker 5: And I was there for about three days or so 409 00:22:34,996 --> 00:22:39,156 Speaker 5: and walked out with a record, you know, you know, 410 00:22:39,236 --> 00:22:42,116 Speaker 5: a record that was really stripped down to my voice 411 00:22:42,516 --> 00:22:45,316 Speaker 5: and guitar, and you know, I play played everything on 412 00:22:45,396 --> 00:22:49,236 Speaker 5: It's some piano and organ, but yeah, I was like, 413 00:22:49,276 --> 00:22:53,316 Speaker 5: this feels right, and I didn't know where it was 414 00:22:53,356 --> 00:22:55,796 Speaker 5: going to go. It wasn't built to be something that 415 00:22:55,876 --> 00:23:00,916 Speaker 5: was going to stand alongside the most the slickest, most 416 00:23:00,916 --> 00:23:03,356 Speaker 5: produced record that was on the radio. Wasn't really built 417 00:23:03,356 --> 00:23:05,436 Speaker 5: for radio or anything like that. I was just meant 418 00:23:05,516 --> 00:23:10,036 Speaker 5: to be something truthful and that felt really good. 419 00:23:10,676 --> 00:23:13,716 Speaker 3: And then you immediately turned around and did a very 420 00:23:13,716 --> 00:23:16,796 Speaker 3: different album, yes, Mobilized. You know a lot of people 421 00:23:17,356 --> 00:23:19,876 Speaker 3: know you from, Yeah, Grantly Buffalo, a lot of people 422 00:23:19,876 --> 00:23:21,516 Speaker 3: know you from Mobilized. 423 00:23:21,636 --> 00:23:21,916 Speaker 4: Yeah. 424 00:23:21,956 --> 00:23:25,796 Speaker 5: I think I felt as though if I was going 425 00:23:25,836 --> 00:23:28,436 Speaker 5: to make a solo record, it was the first one 426 00:23:28,476 --> 00:23:31,756 Speaker 5: for a rounder at that time, then it truly had 427 00:23:31,756 --> 00:23:34,796 Speaker 5: to be a solo record. I mean, talk about extremes, 428 00:23:34,836 --> 00:23:36,716 Speaker 5: you know, it's just like I'm going to play everything 429 00:23:36,756 --> 00:23:40,396 Speaker 5: on it, with the exception of the percussion, which I 430 00:23:40,436 --> 00:23:43,116 Speaker 5: had a hand in, but we programmed that, you know, 431 00:23:43,556 --> 00:23:45,396 Speaker 5: and I'm listening to a lot of things that are 432 00:23:45,436 --> 00:23:48,196 Speaker 5: so different. I'm listening to Jork and Moby and all 433 00:23:48,276 --> 00:23:52,476 Speaker 5: this stuff, and I love this air. Feeling very kind 434 00:23:52,476 --> 00:23:56,236 Speaker 5: of inspired by things that feel so different than you know, 435 00:23:56,276 --> 00:23:59,036 Speaker 5: the music that I would typically listen to. You know, 436 00:23:59,516 --> 00:24:02,076 Speaker 5: it pushed me down a road that was, you know, 437 00:24:02,156 --> 00:24:03,276 Speaker 5: a little more uncharted. 438 00:24:03,276 --> 00:24:03,436 Speaker 4: You know. 439 00:24:03,476 --> 00:24:06,516 Speaker 5: I hit upon hybrid songs that I had written on 440 00:24:06,596 --> 00:24:09,916 Speaker 5: the guitar and the piano, but also songs that had 441 00:24:10,156 --> 00:24:14,236 Speaker 5: their genesis in me trying my hand at programming a 442 00:24:14,316 --> 00:24:18,076 Speaker 5: rhythm track and just working with sounds specifically, you know, 443 00:24:18,436 --> 00:24:20,756 Speaker 5: like maybe it doesn't have to be a traditional drum sound, 444 00:24:20,836 --> 00:24:23,036 Speaker 5: maybe it's something else, you know. 445 00:24:23,876 --> 00:24:26,596 Speaker 3: At the same time, we have to mention you have 446 00:24:26,716 --> 00:24:29,956 Speaker 3: fans because of television. Yeah, you know, I actually watched 447 00:24:29,996 --> 00:24:33,596 Speaker 3: the show Gilmore. Oh really yes, yeah, you're not supposed 448 00:24:33,636 --> 00:24:37,676 Speaker 3: to say that as a guy, but. 449 00:24:36,876 --> 00:24:40,076 Speaker 1: I didn't recognize you at first. I was like, who's 450 00:24:40,116 --> 00:24:41,916 Speaker 1: that guy? I thought he was You're an actor? 451 00:24:42,516 --> 00:24:47,036 Speaker 5: How did I even plays an actor who plays a musician? 452 00:24:47,596 --> 00:24:48,876 Speaker 1: How did that come about? 453 00:24:49,396 --> 00:24:53,556 Speaker 5: Amy Sherman Palladino, who created Gilmore Girls. She and her 454 00:24:53,676 --> 00:24:56,916 Speaker 5: husband Daniel Palladino. They were big music fans, and they 455 00:24:56,916 --> 00:24:59,436 Speaker 5: were fans of Grantly Buffalo. They had came out and 456 00:24:59,476 --> 00:25:03,196 Speaker 5: seen me play and had were familiar with my solo records, 457 00:25:03,916 --> 00:25:06,356 Speaker 5: certainly with the first one I was working on, Mobilized, 458 00:25:06,356 --> 00:25:08,396 Speaker 5: when I got the call from them inviting me to 459 00:25:08,436 --> 00:25:11,956 Speaker 5: come down and be on this new show. You know, 460 00:25:12,076 --> 00:25:13,716 Speaker 5: for all I knew it was kind of flax, a 461 00:25:13,756 --> 00:25:17,716 Speaker 5: one off, and lo and behold, you know, several seasons 462 00:25:17,756 --> 00:25:20,916 Speaker 5: and quite a few episodes that I have this sort 463 00:25:20,916 --> 00:25:24,156 Speaker 5: of bit part in a special guest appearance, as they say, 464 00:25:24,236 --> 00:25:28,596 Speaker 5: and you know, in some in some situations, some really 465 00:25:29,436 --> 00:25:33,316 Speaker 5: insane scenes, you know, where I'm battling it out with 466 00:25:33,156 --> 00:25:37,676 Speaker 5: another local troubadour played by Dave gruber Allen from Freaks 467 00:25:37,676 --> 00:25:41,716 Speaker 5: and Geeks, and another one where word has gotten around 468 00:25:41,836 --> 00:25:45,156 Speaker 5: the stars Hollow, the setting of the show is a 469 00:25:45,156 --> 00:25:49,476 Speaker 5: hotbed where troubadours could be discovered. You know, it's the 470 00:25:49,556 --> 00:25:53,356 Speaker 5: new it's the Seattle, it's the new Seattle for for buskers, 471 00:25:53,716 --> 00:25:57,996 Speaker 5: and so among the hopeful sonic youth show up in 472 00:25:58,076 --> 00:26:00,476 Speaker 5: town and they set up with their you know, their 473 00:26:00,476 --> 00:26:04,156 Speaker 5: pig nose amps and just surreal and bizarre, and it 474 00:26:04,156 --> 00:26:06,596 Speaker 5: always felt like a real coup to to be a 475 00:26:06,596 --> 00:26:07,076 Speaker 5: part of it. 476 00:26:07,436 --> 00:26:07,996 Speaker 4: Yeah. 477 00:26:08,116 --> 00:26:11,036 Speaker 3: And then as you mention, your next album was Virginia Creeper, 478 00:26:11,076 --> 00:26:14,916 Speaker 3: which is another big album people people think of. It's 479 00:26:14,956 --> 00:26:18,796 Speaker 3: got starts with Mona Lisa, Yeah, Dirty Secret, a lot 480 00:26:18,836 --> 00:26:20,396 Speaker 3: of great, great. 481 00:26:20,156 --> 00:26:20,756 Speaker 1: Songs on that. 482 00:26:21,276 --> 00:26:21,836 Speaker 4: Yeah. 483 00:26:22,076 --> 00:26:24,716 Speaker 3: Are you thinking when you when you you'd finished Mobilized, 484 00:26:24,756 --> 00:26:27,316 Speaker 3: what was what was the thinking going into that record? 485 00:26:27,396 --> 00:26:30,716 Speaker 5: Well, you know, I create this record, Mobilize. It has, 486 00:26:31,636 --> 00:26:35,276 Speaker 5: you know, an interesting palette of sounds, but I soon 487 00:26:35,316 --> 00:26:38,916 Speaker 5: find myself on the road, just me and the twelve 488 00:26:38,956 --> 00:26:42,716 Speaker 5: string guitar, and it was kind of like the songs 489 00:26:42,716 --> 00:26:45,916 Speaker 5: were kind of they were being presented as though they 490 00:26:46,036 --> 00:26:49,116 Speaker 5: you know, kind of where they started solo acoustically, and 491 00:26:49,156 --> 00:26:53,076 Speaker 5: so again, the songs just they led me. And I 492 00:26:53,156 --> 00:26:56,956 Speaker 5: never really went back to that because I suppose I 493 00:26:57,036 --> 00:27:00,116 Speaker 5: kind of narrowed the gap between what I write and 494 00:27:00,156 --> 00:27:02,596 Speaker 5: what I record. You know, even though I do bring 495 00:27:02,596 --> 00:27:06,076 Speaker 5: a band in and I've had work with some great 496 00:27:06,196 --> 00:27:09,036 Speaker 5: musicians over the years, and you know, there's a band 497 00:27:09,156 --> 00:27:11,516 Speaker 5: on the on the the current album, Jay Bell Rose 498 00:27:11,516 --> 00:27:15,636 Speaker 5: on druma Jeniver Condo's Patrick Warren keys, but it's all 499 00:27:15,716 --> 00:27:18,716 Speaker 5: kind of built around the songs, and that's kind of 500 00:27:18,756 --> 00:27:21,556 Speaker 5: how how I began to do it with Virginia Creeper 501 00:27:22,196 --> 00:27:24,236 Speaker 5: and every album after that. 502 00:27:25,316 --> 00:27:26,436 Speaker 4: I'm stuck a little. 503 00:27:26,196 --> 00:27:32,236 Speaker 3: Bit about your your songwriting, your music writing harmonically, what 504 00:27:32,316 --> 00:27:37,876 Speaker 3: you do. Did you have formal lessons? Did you learn theory? 505 00:27:38,036 --> 00:27:39,036 Speaker 3: You didn't do any of that. 506 00:27:39,236 --> 00:27:40,516 Speaker 4: I uh, no, I had. 507 00:27:40,716 --> 00:27:44,076 Speaker 5: I had a couple of weeks of maybe a month 508 00:27:44,156 --> 00:27:44,436 Speaker 5: or more. 509 00:27:44,596 --> 00:27:45,876 Speaker 7: Uh uh. 510 00:27:46,036 --> 00:27:48,316 Speaker 5: But you know, they how it is with music, with 511 00:27:48,476 --> 00:27:50,636 Speaker 5: when learning the guitar, they want to, you know, they 512 00:27:50,676 --> 00:27:53,076 Speaker 5: want you to learn some some old folk song to 513 00:27:53,116 --> 00:27:55,596 Speaker 5: begin with, you know, and it's not the spooky great 514 00:27:55,596 --> 00:27:58,596 Speaker 5: folks songs that are out there, you know. Uh So 515 00:27:58,716 --> 00:28:00,556 Speaker 5: I I I just kind of went down the road 516 00:28:00,556 --> 00:28:03,556 Speaker 5: of writing songs for myself. There have been times where 517 00:28:03,596 --> 00:28:08,796 Speaker 5: I've been curious about theory, but no, I've I've always been, 518 00:28:09,236 --> 00:28:10,716 Speaker 5: you know, more reliant on my ear. 519 00:28:11,276 --> 00:28:15,316 Speaker 3: Even on the new album Closer Tonight, you do the 520 00:28:15,876 --> 00:28:19,236 Speaker 3: switching between the major and minor chords, which is very. 521 00:28:19,356 --> 00:28:21,356 Speaker 5: Yeah, that's just like walking down the hall though I 522 00:28:21,796 --> 00:28:25,996 Speaker 5: don't even think about it. I really yeah, I'll take 523 00:28:26,036 --> 00:28:26,556 Speaker 5: your word for it. 524 00:28:26,596 --> 00:28:28,596 Speaker 3: That's got such a distinctive sound to me. 525 00:28:28,876 --> 00:28:31,596 Speaker 5: Well, I've done I've probably done that trick on you know, 526 00:28:32,116 --> 00:28:35,316 Speaker 5: thirteen other songs in the last week, so I probably 527 00:28:35,396 --> 00:28:38,676 Speaker 5: you know, I think of it as building upon what 528 00:28:38,756 --> 00:28:41,236 Speaker 5: I've already written, but yeah, I mean it probably can 529 00:28:41,276 --> 00:28:41,876 Speaker 5: be traced too. 530 00:28:41,996 --> 00:28:42,716 Speaker 3: It's a great trick. 531 00:28:43,276 --> 00:28:46,076 Speaker 5: I love impressionistic music of all sorts, you know, and 532 00:28:46,156 --> 00:28:49,156 Speaker 5: some I find that in some of the like the 533 00:28:49,196 --> 00:28:49,916 Speaker 5: swing era. 534 00:28:50,716 --> 00:28:53,396 Speaker 4: I find it in Debusy. You know. 535 00:28:54,836 --> 00:28:58,676 Speaker 5: I love dissonance. I love the way that a lyric 536 00:28:59,356 --> 00:29:04,716 Speaker 5: can seem to be diametrically opposed to a melody, you know, 537 00:29:04,876 --> 00:29:06,036 Speaker 5: and there's a tension in that. 538 00:29:06,636 --> 00:29:08,596 Speaker 3: And then tell me a little bit about that before 539 00:29:08,596 --> 00:29:09,996 Speaker 3: we get to this, I do want to talk a 540 00:29:09,996 --> 00:29:11,916 Speaker 3: little bit about The Narrows, which was an album I 541 00:29:11,956 --> 00:29:15,516 Speaker 3: really oh yeah, I love that had a very different 542 00:29:15,836 --> 00:29:16,596 Speaker 3: feel different. 543 00:29:16,676 --> 00:29:16,916 Speaker 4: Look. 544 00:29:17,276 --> 00:29:20,756 Speaker 5: There's a few on that record where I'm kind of 545 00:29:20,796 --> 00:29:26,956 Speaker 5: working through those feelings of of leaving my home going 546 00:29:27,036 --> 00:29:31,476 Speaker 5: someplace else. And my father passed away right as we 547 00:29:31,716 --> 00:29:36,876 Speaker 5: basically began to unpack in Nashville, and Smoke and Sparks 548 00:29:37,116 --> 00:29:39,476 Speaker 5: was a song that was you know, written with him 549 00:29:39,476 --> 00:29:43,716 Speaker 5: in mine and uh as a person who's always been 550 00:29:43,716 --> 00:29:46,276 Speaker 5: fascinated with history. I mean you could I think maybe 551 00:29:46,276 --> 00:29:49,196 Speaker 5: that that happens when your your parents named you Grant Lee. 552 00:29:49,796 --> 00:29:52,596 Speaker 5: You know, at some point in time, you know someone's 553 00:29:52,636 --> 00:29:54,636 Speaker 5: gonna gonna whisper to you. You know, there were there 554 00:29:54,636 --> 00:29:57,836 Speaker 5: were some generals, uh right, So I grew up kind 555 00:29:57,836 --> 00:30:00,076 Speaker 5: of interested in history and and. 556 00:30:00,836 --> 00:30:02,436 Speaker 1: Was that actually the reason for your name? 557 00:30:02,836 --> 00:30:06,796 Speaker 5: No, I'm named after my My grandfather and great grandfather 558 00:30:07,076 --> 00:30:12,196 Speaker 5: both named Grant, and Lee was from my dad. His 559 00:30:12,236 --> 00:30:15,236 Speaker 5: father was Robert Lee Phillips, so they kind of, you know, 560 00:30:15,476 --> 00:30:18,636 Speaker 5: a little tribute to the grandfather's there, right, Grant Lee. 561 00:30:18,796 --> 00:30:21,196 Speaker 3: I mean, when you first see the name, you think, well, 562 00:30:21,516 --> 00:30:23,676 Speaker 3: I mean I thought, well, that must be a play 563 00:30:23,716 --> 00:30:23,956 Speaker 3: on the. 564 00:30:24,076 --> 00:30:26,316 Speaker 4: I still have being and everything. So is that like 565 00:30:26,396 --> 00:30:27,276 Speaker 4: a Civil War thing? 566 00:30:27,316 --> 00:30:30,676 Speaker 5: I was like, No, not really, but I am fascinated 567 00:30:30,676 --> 00:30:33,396 Speaker 5: with history and moving to place like Tennessee, you know, 568 00:30:33,436 --> 00:30:38,036 Speaker 5: there's a lot of Civil War history, for sure. I'm 569 00:30:38,116 --> 00:30:40,956 Speaker 5: fascinated with all the you know, the ghost of country 570 00:30:41,036 --> 00:30:44,156 Speaker 5: music that seemed to still flutter about Nashville. 571 00:30:44,636 --> 00:30:47,436 Speaker 3: You know, let's talk about some of the songs in 572 00:30:47,476 --> 00:30:51,236 Speaker 3: the new album. Sure did you make it through the Night? 573 00:30:51,276 --> 00:30:51,636 Speaker 4: Okay? 574 00:30:51,796 --> 00:30:54,876 Speaker 1: Yeah, which is one of your longer titles. 575 00:30:55,236 --> 00:30:57,276 Speaker 5: Yeah, I love a good long every now and then, 576 00:30:57,316 --> 00:30:58,956 Speaker 5: you know, I think there's room for a long title. 577 00:30:59,516 --> 00:31:02,196 Speaker 5: Sometimes you wake up in Charleston is one of them. 578 00:31:02,236 --> 00:31:02,876 Speaker 4: I guess. 579 00:31:03,196 --> 00:31:07,196 Speaker 5: I was taking a course in the language of the 580 00:31:07,236 --> 00:31:11,836 Speaker 5: Muskogee Creek. Now I am Muscogee Creek. I'm what's called 581 00:31:11,916 --> 00:31:14,756 Speaker 5: an enrolled citizen of the Muscogee Creek Nation. 582 00:31:15,076 --> 00:31:15,916 Speaker 1: Now what does that mean? 583 00:31:16,876 --> 00:31:22,876 Speaker 5: Native American tribe whose center is in Oklahoma. My mother 584 00:31:23,556 --> 00:31:27,316 Speaker 5: is from Oklahoma and her side of the family, and 585 00:31:27,996 --> 00:31:32,356 Speaker 5: it was something that as I was growing up, my grandmother, 586 00:31:32,556 --> 00:31:35,396 Speaker 5: who was really important person in my life, you know, 587 00:31:35,596 --> 00:31:38,916 Speaker 5: she would kind of instill in me this sense of 588 00:31:39,756 --> 00:31:43,636 Speaker 5: wanting to know, wanting to appreciate and honor our heritage 589 00:31:43,716 --> 00:31:44,036 Speaker 5: in that. 590 00:31:43,996 --> 00:31:45,516 Speaker 4: Way, you know. Yeah. Yeah. 591 00:31:45,556 --> 00:31:47,476 Speaker 5: She always kind of said to me, you know, like 592 00:31:47,516 --> 00:31:50,236 Speaker 5: you make sure to really study, you know, and learn 593 00:31:50,276 --> 00:31:53,036 Speaker 5: where we come from. And I would go to her house, 594 00:31:53,076 --> 00:31:56,996 Speaker 5: you know, she wasn't real mobile there in her last days, 595 00:31:56,996 --> 00:31:59,156 Speaker 5: but I would play guitar and she would sing gospel 596 00:31:59,276 --> 00:32:02,556 Speaker 5: like Malia Jackson, you know, and had a big influence 597 00:32:02,556 --> 00:32:07,436 Speaker 5: on me. You know, we'd watch Roy Clark and Johnny 598 00:32:07,436 --> 00:32:11,036 Speaker 5: Cash and they seem to always have the Ten Commandments 599 00:32:11,036 --> 00:32:13,756 Speaker 5: on as well at their at their house. The movie, 600 00:32:14,636 --> 00:32:18,196 Speaker 5: you know, gives you a sense of what it was 601 00:32:18,276 --> 00:32:22,396 Speaker 5: like then. And when I became a father, when our 602 00:32:22,436 --> 00:32:25,596 Speaker 5: daughter was born, I really kind of started investing more 603 00:32:25,676 --> 00:32:29,516 Speaker 5: time in trying to understand the history of the Greek people. 604 00:32:29,876 --> 00:32:32,996 Speaker 5: And later on, during during the pandemic, I took this 605 00:32:33,156 --> 00:32:36,196 Speaker 5: course and that's where I learned this phrase. There's no 606 00:32:36,276 --> 00:32:39,876 Speaker 5: word for good morning in the language of the Muscogee Creek, 607 00:32:39,916 --> 00:32:44,356 Speaker 5: but there is this phrase a stungun jug hyadiga that 608 00:32:44,516 --> 00:32:46,276 Speaker 5: means did you make it through the night? 609 00:32:46,316 --> 00:32:48,436 Speaker 4: Okay? And I just love that, you know. 610 00:32:48,516 --> 00:32:51,356 Speaker 5: It's like kind of it sort of sums up the 611 00:32:51,436 --> 00:32:53,556 Speaker 5: feeling of like, man, that was a that was a 612 00:32:53,636 --> 00:32:56,636 Speaker 5: rough one last night, you know, and it seems like 613 00:32:56,676 --> 00:33:00,716 Speaker 5: an appropriate way to kind of to talk about this 614 00:33:00,796 --> 00:33:04,156 Speaker 5: time in history as well, you know. But that's the 615 00:33:04,196 --> 00:33:05,996 Speaker 5: idea there behind did you make it through the night? 616 00:33:06,036 --> 00:33:06,356 Speaker 4: Okay? 617 00:33:06,716 --> 00:33:09,356 Speaker 3: It's it sounds like it said with a little little 618 00:33:09,356 --> 00:33:09,876 Speaker 3: bit of humor. 619 00:33:10,316 --> 00:33:13,996 Speaker 5: Yeah, Yeah, that's the idea. It's sort of it's humor 620 00:33:14,036 --> 00:33:17,396 Speaker 5: in the face you know, of of challenge, you know, 621 00:33:17,476 --> 00:33:21,796 Speaker 5: But yeah, tell me about closer tonight Closer Tonight. That 622 00:33:21,956 --> 00:33:25,876 Speaker 5: is a song where I'm basically kind of I guess 623 00:33:25,916 --> 00:33:30,316 Speaker 5: I'm kind of wrestling with these uneasy feelings, like, well, 624 00:33:30,476 --> 00:33:33,036 Speaker 5: on one hand, we seem we're being told at least 625 00:33:33,036 --> 00:33:36,916 Speaker 5: that we're living in this age where we might conquer, 626 00:33:38,116 --> 00:33:39,076 Speaker 5: you know, certain. 627 00:33:38,796 --> 00:33:40,356 Speaker 4: Ailments, diseases. 628 00:33:40,476 --> 00:33:44,876 Speaker 5: I mean, we we somehow defeated pandemic for at least 629 00:33:44,916 --> 00:33:47,996 Speaker 5: for a moment, and yet here we are at this 630 00:33:48,116 --> 00:33:53,196 Speaker 5: moment that's extremely retrograde, and one could argue that we 631 00:33:53,436 --> 00:33:57,716 Speaker 5: are closer to the possibility of an all out war, 632 00:33:58,396 --> 00:34:01,916 Speaker 5: of of a of a of a great financial calamity. 633 00:34:02,716 --> 00:34:06,716 Speaker 5: So it feels as though we are at this cusp 634 00:34:07,636 --> 00:34:08,996 Speaker 5: where it could go either way. 635 00:34:09,276 --> 00:34:11,236 Speaker 4: You know, we're closer to. 636 00:34:12,996 --> 00:34:17,316 Speaker 5: Self harm or potentially closer to getting beyond it perhaps, 637 00:34:17,436 --> 00:34:20,836 Speaker 5: you know. And we're also being made aware just how 638 00:34:20,836 --> 00:34:25,196 Speaker 5: closely we are related and reliant and intertwined. 639 00:34:26,836 --> 00:34:30,276 Speaker 2: Well, let's break and we'll come back with Grant Lee Phillips. 640 00:34:33,836 --> 00:34:36,996 Speaker 3: A song I loved was American Lions. Oh yeah, and 641 00:34:37,036 --> 00:34:40,876 Speaker 3: I thought you're speaking metaphorically. There were American lions. 642 00:34:41,196 --> 00:34:42,956 Speaker 4: Apparently there were American lions. 643 00:34:43,316 --> 00:34:45,636 Speaker 3: Did that discovery kick off the. 644 00:34:45,636 --> 00:34:48,316 Speaker 5: Song or yeah, I wrote that down in a notebook 645 00:34:49,316 --> 00:34:52,156 Speaker 5: years and years ago when I was still in La 646 00:34:53,596 --> 00:34:55,836 Speaker 5: Okay on name Drop. My friend Michael Stipe came to 647 00:34:55,836 --> 00:34:58,236 Speaker 5: town and he said, do you guys want to go 648 00:34:58,796 --> 00:35:01,796 Speaker 5: with some friends? We want to go to the Labrett Tarpits. 649 00:35:02,316 --> 00:35:05,196 Speaker 5: And you know with Violet like that, you know, this 650 00:35:05,236 --> 00:35:07,556 Speaker 5: is our daughter who's like she was like four at. 651 00:35:07,436 --> 00:35:08,796 Speaker 4: The time something like that. 652 00:35:09,676 --> 00:35:11,636 Speaker 5: So we all went down to the Libria Tarpits and 653 00:35:11,676 --> 00:35:16,036 Speaker 5: I saw this exhibit called the American Lion. There was 654 00:35:16,076 --> 00:35:19,116 Speaker 5: you know, like like the MGM Lion, and I started 655 00:35:19,156 --> 00:35:23,036 Speaker 5: thinking about apparently, yeah, massive, the idea of this thing, 656 00:35:23,156 --> 00:35:25,356 Speaker 5: just kind of wandering down the Miracle Mile, past the 657 00:35:25,436 --> 00:35:29,516 Speaker 5: Labriat Harpits, past the Beverly Center, and thinking about time 658 00:35:29,636 --> 00:35:35,116 Speaker 5: as being kind of compacted everything that I have experienced, 659 00:35:35,156 --> 00:35:37,916 Speaker 5: all the change and all the unpredictable things that I've 660 00:35:37,956 --> 00:35:41,276 Speaker 5: witnessed in my life, to the degree that you know, 661 00:35:41,356 --> 00:35:44,196 Speaker 5: some places, don't you know, they feel so different now. 662 00:35:44,276 --> 00:35:47,156 Speaker 5: You know, La is a different place, and New York's 663 00:35:47,156 --> 00:35:50,076 Speaker 5: a different place, but it's a different place for the 664 00:35:50,116 --> 00:35:52,876 Speaker 5: American Lion too, you know. So I guess it's kind 665 00:35:52,916 --> 00:35:56,916 Speaker 5: of a meditation on change and the more subtle things 666 00:35:57,796 --> 00:36:01,516 Speaker 5: that we encounter. And you know, you've asked a lot 667 00:36:01,516 --> 00:36:04,076 Speaker 5: of questions in these songs, keep saying, you know, what 668 00:36:04,076 --> 00:36:04,716 Speaker 5: does it mean. 669 00:36:04,596 --> 00:36:07,556 Speaker 3: We're going this way, you're going that way? Last Corner 670 00:36:07,596 --> 00:36:10,996 Speaker 3: of the Earth sort of feels like it's a bit 671 00:36:10,996 --> 00:36:13,516 Speaker 3: of an answer at the end of this album. Tell 672 00:36:13,516 --> 00:36:14,276 Speaker 3: me about that song. 673 00:36:15,436 --> 00:36:18,476 Speaker 5: I guess I have arrived at a sense of finality there. 674 00:36:18,956 --> 00:36:20,356 Speaker 5: You know, it had to be the last song on 675 00:36:20,356 --> 00:36:23,156 Speaker 5: the album. It with a title like that, I guess 676 00:36:24,116 --> 00:36:28,356 Speaker 5: I wanted to to talk about those feelings, no matter 677 00:36:28,356 --> 00:36:31,276 Speaker 5: how bleak. I think, you know, some part of me, 678 00:36:31,316 --> 00:36:34,396 Speaker 5: as a songwriter would have felt compelled to to soften 679 00:36:34,436 --> 00:36:39,716 Speaker 5: the blow or resist that that impulse. But I think 680 00:36:40,316 --> 00:36:43,916 Speaker 5: despite that sense of bleakness, there's also kind of a 681 00:36:44,916 --> 00:36:47,156 Speaker 5: there's another note that I hit at the end, you 682 00:36:47,156 --> 00:36:51,476 Speaker 5: know where I'm saying, hold on to that that coal 683 00:36:51,956 --> 00:36:54,756 Speaker 5: of hope, that little bit of fire. Sometimes that and 684 00:36:54,796 --> 00:36:57,516 Speaker 5: sometimes that's all you have, is that little bit, that 685 00:36:57,556 --> 00:36:59,676 Speaker 5: little spark, you know, because you'll need it. 686 00:37:00,276 --> 00:37:01,716 Speaker 4: So I think there's hope in that. 687 00:37:01,836 --> 00:37:05,196 Speaker 5: I think there's there's it's a weighty song, but there's 688 00:37:05,276 --> 00:37:08,836 Speaker 5: there's optimism as well, you know, I think that's it 689 00:37:08,876 --> 00:37:11,916 Speaker 5: does feel to me that we're going to have to 690 00:37:11,956 --> 00:37:16,796 Speaker 5: walk through some difficulty. You know, we already are. You know, 691 00:37:17,516 --> 00:37:21,076 Speaker 5: we're into it. We're halfway out on the coals, but 692 00:37:21,156 --> 00:37:23,756 Speaker 5: it'd be a while before we get, you know, to 693 00:37:23,796 --> 00:37:26,516 Speaker 5: we get beyond it, you know. And yet there is 694 00:37:26,836 --> 00:37:28,076 Speaker 5: I have more than hope. 695 00:37:28,676 --> 00:37:30,756 Speaker 1: You know you want to play something? 696 00:37:31,596 --> 00:37:45,436 Speaker 6: Yeah, quiet for now, you're a second. 697 00:37:45,476 --> 00:37:50,516 Speaker 8: All of this could change, like the world. 698 00:37:50,476 --> 00:37:50,916 Speaker 4: Let's go. 699 00:37:52,436 --> 00:37:55,396 Speaker 7: And say. 700 00:37:55,796 --> 00:37:56,636 Speaker 6: So much or. 701 00:38:00,356 --> 00:38:02,476 Speaker 4: Another kind of lone lean names. 702 00:38:03,396 --> 00:38:04,316 Speaker 6: I don't know. 703 00:38:05,716 --> 00:38:21,036 Speaker 4: Where I am to turn? Where turns you tore on 704 00:38:21,036 --> 00:38:21,996 Speaker 4: the backwards? 705 00:38:22,356 --> 00:38:30,876 Speaker 9: You just dry with your eyes clicked to the curveer 706 00:38:35,076 --> 00:38:38,156 Speaker 9: to lift your footy you right. 707 00:38:40,956 --> 00:38:45,676 Speaker 7: At the last. 708 00:38:46,876 --> 00:38:48,916 Speaker 6: The corner round here. 709 00:38:55,036 --> 00:38:56,716 Speaker 4: I'm going now. 710 00:38:59,556 --> 00:39:03,236 Speaker 9: And drag it to the summer heats and all the 711 00:39:03,436 --> 00:39:07,636 Speaker 9: GOLs have warm. 712 00:39:07,196 --> 00:39:11,556 Speaker 6: Out, and you walk between. 713 00:39:14,476 --> 00:39:15,396 Speaker 4: The shoulders of the. 714 00:39:15,516 --> 00:39:16,356 Speaker 6: Night and me. 715 00:39:17,396 --> 00:39:26,036 Speaker 9: We don't glass or dare to speak, dare to speak? 716 00:39:33,876 --> 00:39:37,356 Speaker 6: You don't look backwards. You just try. 717 00:39:41,276 --> 00:39:43,556 Speaker 7: With your eyes glued to. 718 00:39:43,596 --> 00:39:44,476 Speaker 10: The curve. 719 00:39:48,316 --> 00:39:50,956 Speaker 4: To lift your foot till your. 720 00:39:51,036 --> 00:39:57,876 Speaker 8: Ry at the last. 721 00:40:00,036 --> 00:40:02,076 Speaker 7: The corner up here. 722 00:40:09,196 --> 00:40:39,956 Speaker 10: M hmm, hold on time. 723 00:40:40,956 --> 00:40:46,596 Speaker 7: Blowing on a cold of home. Keep that part of you. 724 00:40:48,276 --> 00:40:48,556 Speaker 6: Light. 725 00:40:51,236 --> 00:40:56,956 Speaker 7: Keep it lit, you would need it when it turns 726 00:40:56,996 --> 00:41:05,676 Speaker 7: off cold, and the sun that's gone inside, and the 727 00:41:05,716 --> 00:41:06,596 Speaker 7: moon is his. 728 00:41:11,236 --> 00:41:22,436 Speaker 8: M You don't look backwards. You just try, with your 729 00:41:22,596 --> 00:41:31,356 Speaker 8: eyes clean to the cur to lift your foottowe you are. 730 00:41:31,436 --> 00:41:35,636 Speaker 9: Right at last. 731 00:41:40,196 --> 00:41:42,036 Speaker 6: The corner of here. 732 00:41:49,956 --> 00:41:51,716 Speaker 8: You won't sleep till. 733 00:41:52,116 --> 00:41:59,036 Speaker 9: You are right at last. 734 00:42:01,756 --> 00:42:03,996 Speaker 4: The corner of here. 735 00:42:08,716 --> 00:42:18,836 Speaker 1: M beautiful. All right, Thank you so much for coming in. 736 00:42:19,836 --> 00:42:23,156 Speaker 4: Thank you, thank you, my pleasure all right. 737 00:42:26,236 --> 00:42:28,636 Speaker 2: An episode description, you'll find a link to a playlist 738 00:42:28,676 --> 00:42:31,516 Speaker 2: featuring our favorite songs from Grantley Phillips, as well as 739 00:42:31,516 --> 00:42:34,556 Speaker 2: his new album and The Hour of Dust. Be sure 740 00:42:34,556 --> 00:42:37,116 Speaker 2: to check out YouTube dot com slash Broken Record Podcast 741 00:42:37,156 --> 00:42:39,956 Speaker 2: to see all of our video interviews, and be sure 742 00:42:39,956 --> 00:42:42,436 Speaker 2: to follow us on Instagram at the Broken Record Pod. 743 00:42:42,796 --> 00:42:45,676 Speaker 2: You can follow us on Twitter at Broken Record. Broken 744 00:42:45,716 --> 00:42:48,076 Speaker 2: Record is produced and edited by Leah Rose, with marketing 745 00:42:48,156 --> 00:42:51,156 Speaker 2: health from Eric Sandler and Jordana McMillan. Our engineer is 746 00:42:51,196 --> 00:42:55,236 Speaker 2: Ben Tolliday. Broken Record is production of Pushkin Industries. If 747 00:42:55,236 --> 00:42:58,116 Speaker 2: you love this show and others from Pushkin, consider subscribing 748 00:42:58,196 --> 00:43:01,276 Speaker 2: to Pushkin Plus. Pushkin Plus is a podcast subscription that 749 00:43:01,316 --> 00:43:04,316 Speaker 2: offers bonus content and ad free listening for four ninety 750 00:43:04,396 --> 00:43:07,596 Speaker 2: nine a month. Look for Pushkin Plus on Apple podcast subscriptions, 751 00:43:08,196 --> 00:43:10,436 Speaker 2: and if you like this show, please remember to share, rate, 752 00:43:10,476 --> 00:43:12,996 Speaker 2: and review us on your podcast app. Our theme music's 753 00:43:12,996 --> 00:43:14,836 Speaker 2: by Kenny Beats. I'm justin Richmond.