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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio news.

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Speaker 2: Steve Patiuca sat down with US and Lisa Lane's in

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Speaker 2: and guys apart from sports.

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Speaker 3: Okay, hold on a second, but you've been talking about

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Speaker 3: Atalanta for like about three years now, and you're so excited,

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Speaker 3: and I know that the whole thing is going to

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Speaker 3: be about Atlanta, and.

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Speaker 1: I think that that's wonderful.

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Speaker 3: But a lot of tules in a lot of places.

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Speaker 1: Really, you're going to do.

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Speaker 2: This in the capital private equity senior Advice that joins

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Speaker 2: US now three wind Steve, Hello, good to see you.

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Speaker 1: Great to be here.

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Speaker 2: Let's start with sports.

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Speaker 1: I thought it was in ESPN.

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Speaker 2: We had to get on to night because that's Atlanta

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Speaker 2: five NOL. What a story for that team this year.

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Speaker 1: You know, I'm still pinching myself. It's just incredible and

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Speaker 1: very happy for the team and the coach and the

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Speaker 1: Percossi family. It's it's been great for Bergamo and Milan

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Speaker 1: and it's just really exciting.

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Speaker 2: I don't need to get too excited, but can you

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Speaker 2: win the league this year?

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Speaker 1: You know the old adage take it one game at

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Speaker 1: a time, so we just we've got to do We've

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Speaker 1: got to get healthy. We got a couple of guys

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Speaker 1: that are hurt, but they're playing fantastic.

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Speaker 2: It's amazing to see Barcelona up next and maybe straight qualification.

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Speaker 2: So the not the next round, but the one after that, right.

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Speaker 1: Big that would be a big big for European would

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Speaker 1: go to Barcelona. That's the football.

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Speaker 2: Okay, I did the basketball. You should do best.

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Speaker 1: Actually, there's a lot of.

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Speaker 2: So reports that you're after majority ownership of the Boston Celtics.

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Speaker 2: How much can you tell us this morning?

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Speaker 1: I can't comment, as you know, on any deals, including.

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Speaker 2: That deal, okay that one specifically? Can we talk more

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Speaker 2: broadly about the NBA franchises and what's happening there, because

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Speaker 2: I have noticed that audience levels TV audience levels have

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Speaker 2: fallen off in some parts. What do you think is

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Speaker 2: behind that?

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Speaker 1: You know, I think I think it's fragmentation of viewing,

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Speaker 1: and I think the viewing leaderships are really good when

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Speaker 1: they can count it correctly and really find out who's

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Speaker 1: watching where. So I don't think there's a concern there

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Speaker 1: in the league is really strong and has more stars

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Speaker 1: than ever, and you know, it's been fantastic, so I

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Speaker 1: think that's a that's kind of a bump in the room.

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Speaker 3: So we've covered football, we've covered basketball, any other sports

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Speaker 3: that you're going to buy a team in.

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Speaker 1: No, I'm not in a cricket so I'm good.

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Speaker 3: But there's actually a lot to talk about it and

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Speaker 3: whether you're going to buy another team? Are you going

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Speaker 3: to buy another team?

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Speaker 1: Who knows?

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Speaker 3: Okay, all right, well let's move on because right now

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Speaker 3: we talk about Davos and Hall has been dominated by

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Speaker 3: incredible optimism. America is going to boom and Donald Trump

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Speaker 3: what's he going to do? Of course there's also overlay

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Speaker 3: of artificial intelligence. What's been your biggest takeaway about what

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Speaker 3: people are concerned about with the Trump administration?

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Speaker 1: Well, I think first of all, this this Davos is

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Speaker 1: all Trump, all AI. That's all people are talking about.

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Speaker 1: And the Trump issue is, you know, what's going to

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Speaker 1: happen with tariffs? You know, you're worried about tariffs? Is

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Speaker 1: worried about tariffs, What's going to happen with the Ukraine,

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Speaker 1: What's going to happen with the American economy and protectionism?

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Speaker 1: That's that's their worry. And on AI, you know, AI

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Speaker 1: is for real. It feels a little bit like you're

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Speaker 1: in nineteen ninety nine Internet boom. So there's a lot

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Speaker 1: of hype, but there's a lot of reality in AI,

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Speaker 1: and AI is going to change everything. I view AI

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Speaker 1: as almost building the railroads and the interstate highway system

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Speaker 1: in the US. We're going to need to have that

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Speaker 1: over the next twenty years or we're going to fall behind.

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Speaker 1: So I think it's a legitimate discussion on AI. And

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Speaker 1: they came out with the Stargate program, which I think

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Speaker 1: is fantastic because other countries are getting ahead. China's investing billions,

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Speaker 1: Ue is investing billions, Saudia's investing billions. I think the

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Speaker 1: US has to get out ahead of that trend and

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Speaker 1: it's going to affect everything over the next twenties. I'm

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Speaker 1: really excited about it.

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Speaker 2: As an investor. What's your approach to one of this?

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Speaker 2: How do you think about the opportunities you mentioned the

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Speaker 2: late nineties, it took a while to find out who

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Speaker 2: the ultimate winners would be. Are you expecting something similar

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Speaker 2: this time around?

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Speaker 1: It's going to be a little different because I look

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Speaker 1: at AID, you had winners like Google that were kind

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Speaker 1: of natural monopolies. There can be many variant of large

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Speaker 1: language models, so there can be a global large language model.

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Speaker 1: There can be probably four or five of those. But

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Speaker 1: now the real use is going to be vertical ones,

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Speaker 1: so tailoring models with the data specific data for say

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Speaker 1: healthcare specific models for transportation with transportation data in it.

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Speaker 1: So I think vertical AI models will be the ones

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Speaker 1: that start to impact the economy, and then the other

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Speaker 1: ones are going to grow and we need that infrastructure,

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Speaker 1: and then what's going to happen is from that you

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Speaker 1: need power. Fusion is being talked about and is around

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Speaker 1: the corner. All the fusion companies I look at are

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Speaker 1: getting close to actually generating energy. The models are showing

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Speaker 1: soon they're going to generate energy and build these large

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Speaker 1: tokmacs that's going to have to power all the centers

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Speaker 1: with all to get as the GPUs, because if you

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Speaker 1: look at the power users of AI, it could be

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Speaker 1: the entire power right now in the United States. So

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Speaker 1: I think this stargate program or program like it is

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Speaker 1: needed and we've got to match those other countries, and

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Speaker 1: that is going to create a virtual sloop of spending

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Speaker 1: building the infrastructure and be great for America and a

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Speaker 1: revolutionized healthcare.

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Speaker 3: Healthcare as well, I know that you've been very active

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Speaker 3: in that space, in particular, particularly in the speed that

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Speaker 3: it will take to put new prescription drugs on the

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Speaker 3: market using different machine learning techniques. I'm just wondering, is

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Speaker 3: that your main focus right now of investment when it

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Speaker 3: comes to AI the other regions that you think are

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Speaker 3: promising in the application in the near term, not just

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Speaker 3: so there's these.

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Speaker 1: Long term goals. Well, I'm focused on the health directs.

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Speaker 1: I think that's the number one. But it'll be helpful

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Speaker 1: in energy and finding energy and processing energy. It'll be

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Speaker 1: helpful in transportation, It'll be helpful. It's going to be

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Speaker 1: embedded in every business. And I think like liquid I,

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Speaker 1: AI were for invested in that doesn't require it's built.

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Speaker 1: As we talked about last year, they studied a worm's

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Speaker 1: brain in mid like, who would do that? There's three

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Speaker 1: hundred neurons in a worm's brain. I think that's fine.

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Speaker 1: I mean neurons do you think is in your brain?

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Speaker 1: Three hundred and one? I'm just kidding. The average person

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Speaker 1: has eighty six billion. You guys probably have eighty seven each.

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Speaker 1: But you can come on again. If they come out

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Speaker 1: with an AI system that requires eighty percent less power

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Speaker 1: to load it, and that means you can put it

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Speaker 1: on edge device, so to be on your phone. So

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Speaker 1: you're going to have, you know, your assistant on your phone.

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Speaker 1: This is going to start to be in all the phones.

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Speaker 1: It's going to kind of revolutionize the way our lives are.

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Speaker 3: One aspect of this Davos is so interesting is that

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Speaker 3: there's some real tensions to be resolved, especially as everyone's

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Speaker 3: talking about artificial intelligence. On the flip side, Donald Trump

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Speaker 3: talking about national security. He's talking about the chips in

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Speaker 3: the US that could potentially transmit data back to China

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Speaker 3: or one of our other adversaries or competitors. And I'm

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Speaker 3: just wondering as an investor, how you understand what's national

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Speaker 3: security and what isn't.

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Speaker 1: Well, it's difficult. You got to follow the government and

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Speaker 1: it changes all the time. I think in general, we

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Speaker 1: do need national security, but it has to be focused,

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Speaker 1: it has to have a purpose, and hopefully they'll have

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Speaker 1: rational people that decide, you know what that is.

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Speaker 2: Do you worry that some voices we'll get a biggest

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Speaker 2: site in the future in the private sector.

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Speaker 1: No, I don't worry because we have a system that

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Speaker 1: I think will work in the long term, and there's

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Speaker 1: going to be a lot off. There always has been

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Speaker 1: fighting of different companies for different things, and so we'll

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Speaker 1: get through it and hopefully we'll do the right thing.

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Speaker 1: We've got to Congress, We've we've got the court system

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Speaker 1: show in the United States is very stable. So I

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Speaker 1: do think we need cybersecurity and we need security in general.

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Speaker 1: Hopefully we can have a datante with China so we

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Speaker 1: don't have that going on. And I think Trump, you know,

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Speaker 1: wants to cut deals, you know, to move the economy forward,

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Speaker 1: and I think that'll be a good thing.

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Speaker 2: I'm showing a lot of Europeans have asked you on

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Speaker 2: your opinion on what the next four years it's going

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Speaker 2: to look like. What have you tell the Europeans when

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Speaker 2: you ask that question?

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Speaker 1: You know, I think the next four years the Europeans,

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Speaker 1: I've been in many meetings here with health ministers and

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Speaker 1: all sorts of ministers, and what they say is the

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Speaker 1: EU really isn't a full union. They use the same money,

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Speaker 1: but there's not an integrated capital market. There's not integrated

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Speaker 1: in anything. In terms of starting a business, you need

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Speaker 1: to fill out, you know, one hundred pages of forums

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Speaker 1: in Germany and different ones in Portugal. So many of

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Speaker 1: them talk to me and say they need to create

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Speaker 1: a twenty eighth state with a set of rules, a

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Speaker 1: virtual state with one set of rules to start a

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Speaker 1: business and one set of of a bankruptcy. Bankruptcy is

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Speaker 1: different in every country. You can't have a great capital

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Speaker 1: market if you're dealing with twenty seven different bankruptcy kills

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Speaker 1: or twenty different ways of doing things. So I think

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Speaker 1: it's a great idea to start a twenty eighth virtual

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Speaker 1: European state, and businesses can opt to be in that

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Speaker 1: or being one of the twenty seven. But it's hard

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Speaker 1: to be in both of those at the same time.

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Speaker 1: So the big advantage the US as is it is

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Speaker 1: one market. It is as one set of regulations, so

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Speaker 1: we have a leg up and hopefully we will make

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Speaker 1: that even better in the next four years.

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Speaker 3: I want a return to where we began, which is sports,

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Speaker 3: and my sport.

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Speaker 1: Which is auctions.

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Speaker 3: I'm looking at bond auctions, which I think is like

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Speaker 3: a R caught it time. Well, I know, hold on

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Speaker 3: a second, No, I'm serious, because I wonder how much

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Speaker 3: you're watching what so many people here are worried about,

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Speaker 3: which is that all of this optimism, all of this

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Speaker 3: you know, happy talk about getting together and really focusing

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Speaker 3: on growth could get really stein made if you start

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Speaker 3: to see bond yields climb and you start to see

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Speaker 3: the fiscal pressures really come into play. How concerned are

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Speaker 3: you about that.

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Speaker 1: I'm very concerned. You know, all the data would show

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Speaker 1: when you have an increase in the money supply as

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Speaker 1: big as it's been in the last five years and

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Speaker 1: a large deficit, that's going to cause higher interest rates

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Speaker 1: and inflation. Those kind of go hand in hand. So

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Speaker 1: my biggest worry is inflation going to get out of

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Speaker 1: control and keep those interests up there. I think house

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Speaker 1: mortgages are costing seven percent. We definitely have to increase

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Speaker 1: the supply and they're looking at programs to do that.

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Speaker 1: But with seven percent mortgages, that's not great for growth.

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Speaker 3: You mentioned nineteen ninety nine, and we all know what

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Speaker 3: happened after nineteen ninety nine, and there is this feeling

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Speaker 3: that there needs to be a washout and some of

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Speaker 3: the startup companies to say deal with technology that continues

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Speaker 3: to evolve. Is that the big concern that this kind

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Speaker 3: of increase in rates could really catalyze that kind of washout.

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Speaker 3: Is that what you're keeping your eye on.

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Speaker 1: Increase in rates definitely catalyzes washouts because when money is free,

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Speaker 1: there are no washouts. Right, we had free money for

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Speaker 1: a long period time. Now. The good news is for

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Speaker 1: most of my life, too long life, most of my life,

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Speaker 1: regist rates have been t bills have been five percent,

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Speaker 1: five and a half percent, So it's not anomalist. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: that is the fear. We've already seen a lot of

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Speaker 1: the company's valuations go down a good white boats, So

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Speaker 1: I think we're kind of through that. I think there

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Speaker 1: is a lot of hype on AI and probably some

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Speaker 1: some fundings at very high levels. But I don't I don't.

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Speaker 1: I don't see it like it was in ninety nine,

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Speaker 1: where everything across the board was crazy. I used to

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Speaker 1: walk into a room in San Francisco. They give me

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Speaker 1: a term sheet and they say, we have a company

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Speaker 1: that's going to internet. Company is going to reduce the

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Speaker 1: supply chain cost of medical equipment. That we're valuing the

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Speaker 1: company at one hundred million and has no revenues. This

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Speaker 1: is the idea, and you have two hours to decide

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Speaker 1: do you want to invest ten million, one hundred million valuation.

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Speaker 1: I'll pass. I was, I was fall out of my chair.

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Speaker 1: This is a real story. I said, thank you very much.

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Speaker 1: And nine and ninety nine of those went bankrupt, and

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Speaker 1: then we had Google and a few other ones that

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Speaker 1: did well. That's not that's not the situation we're in

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Speaker 1: right now.

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Speaker 2: Stay you know, John, It's going to say great to

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Speaker 2: see you, good luck to all your sports teams. As

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Speaker 2: we say for without a doubt, Steve Palu can Bank

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Speaker 2: Capital and Force of Milian