1 00:00:02,720 --> 00:00:05,880 Speaker 1: Hi. This is Laura Vandercamp. I'm a mother of five, 2 00:00:06,160 --> 00:00:10,200 Speaker 1: an author, journalist, and speaker. And this is Sarah hart Hunger. 3 00:00:10,480 --> 00:00:13,480 Speaker 1: I'm a mother of three, a practicing physician and blogger. 4 00:00:13,480 --> 00:00:15,800 Speaker 1: On the side, we are two working parents who love 5 00:00:15,840 --> 00:00:19,320 Speaker 1: our careers and our families. Welcome to best of both worlds. 6 00:00:19,600 --> 00:00:22,400 Speaker 1: Here we talk about how real women manage work, family, 7 00:00:22,560 --> 00:00:25,800 Speaker 1: and time for fun, from figuring out childcare to mapping 8 00:00:25,800 --> 00:00:28,360 Speaker 1: out long term career goals. We want you to get 9 00:00:28,400 --> 00:00:33,880 Speaker 1: the most out of life. Welcome to best of both worlds. 10 00:00:33,880 --> 00:00:36,520 Speaker 1: This is Laura. This is episode one hundred and fifty two. 11 00:00:36,920 --> 00:00:40,600 Speaker 1: I'll be interviewing Celeste Hedley in the body of this episode. 12 00:00:40,880 --> 00:00:43,760 Speaker 1: She's the author of a great new book called Do Nothing. 13 00:00:44,520 --> 00:00:46,720 Speaker 1: You'll find out a little more about that later in 14 00:00:46,760 --> 00:00:49,440 Speaker 1: this episode, but one of my favorite lines from her 15 00:00:49,479 --> 00:00:54,040 Speaker 1: book is that idleness is not laziness, that there is 16 00:00:54,080 --> 00:00:57,840 Speaker 1: a distinction between the two. And so, Sarah, I'm curious, 17 00:00:57,920 --> 00:01:01,400 Speaker 1: what are your favorite forms of idleness? Not laziness, but 18 00:01:01,840 --> 00:01:04,679 Speaker 1: don't Sarah doesn't do laziness, But what are your favorite 19 00:01:04,680 --> 00:01:07,360 Speaker 1: forms of idleness? Okay, first of all, I take issue 20 00:01:07,680 --> 00:01:12,880 Speaker 1: with the idea that I do not do laziness sometimes. 21 00:01:13,000 --> 00:01:16,440 Speaker 1: I think everyone does laziness sometimes right when you're tired, 22 00:01:16,560 --> 00:01:18,679 Speaker 1: and you know, part of being very go go go 23 00:01:18,880 --> 00:01:20,759 Speaker 1: a lot of the time means that there may be 24 00:01:20,800 --> 00:01:27,440 Speaker 1: a lazy backlash sometimes and I'm okay with that. So okay, 25 00:01:27,600 --> 00:01:29,440 Speaker 1: I did send you a lovely list. I will just 26 00:01:29,640 --> 00:01:32,880 Speaker 1: go through that Number one, reading on the couch with 27 00:01:33,080 --> 00:01:36,240 Speaker 1: a blanket and treat ideally that somehow adds to the 28 00:01:36,280 --> 00:01:38,800 Speaker 1: idleness if I really you know, not just those few 29 00:01:38,800 --> 00:01:40,840 Speaker 1: pages snuck in while the kids are playing, but like, 30 00:01:41,319 --> 00:01:43,839 Speaker 1: let's say the kids are watching a movie or fully occupied, 31 00:01:43,880 --> 00:01:46,080 Speaker 1: and I'm just like, this is my time and just 32 00:01:46,360 --> 00:01:50,000 Speaker 1: like lean into it. Number two probably should be number one, 33 00:01:50,040 --> 00:01:54,160 Speaker 1: because it's the best naps. Naps. Naps are good, particularly 34 00:01:54,200 --> 00:01:58,200 Speaker 1: on the weekends. A lot of times I will still 35 00:01:58,200 --> 00:02:00,600 Speaker 1: get up early to do my workout, but knowing in 36 00:02:00,640 --> 00:02:03,120 Speaker 1: my head that when Genevieve takes a nap, I will 37 00:02:03,120 --> 00:02:05,080 Speaker 1: also take a nap. So that's how I can stay 38 00:02:05,160 --> 00:02:07,120 Speaker 1: up a little bit later on the weekends but still 39 00:02:07,440 --> 00:02:09,840 Speaker 1: kind of get my morning routine in. So I really 40 00:02:09,919 --> 00:02:13,680 Speaker 1: enjoy naps. Currently, I'm in love with playing with my 41 00:02:13,680 --> 00:02:18,880 Speaker 1: new bullet journal. And it's like totally coloring and way 42 00:02:18,919 --> 00:02:21,480 Speaker 1: more neat and elaborate than it needs to be. And 43 00:02:21,520 --> 00:02:23,639 Speaker 1: I recognize that, Like if I were kidding myself to 44 00:02:23,680 --> 00:02:25,520 Speaker 1: say that you needed to have a journal that looked 45 00:02:25,520 --> 00:02:27,520 Speaker 1: like this to live a functional life, it would be ridiculous. 46 00:02:27,840 --> 00:02:31,480 Speaker 1: But it's totally relaxing. So I actually count that as idleness. 47 00:02:31,840 --> 00:02:34,399 Speaker 1: When I'm sitting there just coloring in squares and making 48 00:02:34,480 --> 00:02:38,840 Speaker 1: little trackers, and I'm using myself with that, there's like 49 00:02:38,880 --> 00:02:41,560 Speaker 1: sort of the more social kinds of idleness, like just 50 00:02:41,639 --> 00:02:44,280 Speaker 1: drinking wine with Josh in the evenings if the kids 51 00:02:44,280 --> 00:02:48,079 Speaker 1: are otherwise occupied, or perhaps back in the day when 52 00:02:48,080 --> 00:02:53,440 Speaker 1: you could actually like hang out with friends those days. Yes, 53 00:02:53,880 --> 00:02:57,920 Speaker 1: And then I did write my favorite alone idle afternoon 54 00:02:58,000 --> 00:03:01,000 Speaker 1: on a vacation, which actually happened in Mark right before 55 00:03:01,800 --> 00:03:05,040 Speaker 1: everything happened. Was we were in Amelia Island and I 56 00:03:05,160 --> 00:03:07,520 Speaker 1: was with Josh on a work trip, his work trip, 57 00:03:07,680 --> 00:03:09,480 Speaker 1: not my work trip, so I didn't have anything to do, 58 00:03:09,800 --> 00:03:11,920 Speaker 1: and I went and got a massage and then walked 59 00:03:12,080 --> 00:03:15,360 Speaker 1: down the little cute little square and got ice cream 60 00:03:15,480 --> 00:03:17,000 Speaker 1: and then went and read in my hotel room. And 61 00:03:17,040 --> 00:03:20,799 Speaker 1: that was probably like one of the top afternoons that 62 00:03:20,840 --> 00:03:24,480 Speaker 1: I've had in a long time. Sounds great. Yeah, what 63 00:03:24,560 --> 00:03:27,320 Speaker 1: about you? Well, yeah, I like to lie on my 64 00:03:27,400 --> 00:03:30,280 Speaker 1: back porch on We have a couch back there that's 65 00:03:30,320 --> 00:03:32,960 Speaker 1: under the cover on you know, so a seat on 66 00:03:33,000 --> 00:03:36,600 Speaker 1: the porch and it's you can see the backyard. Even 67 00:03:36,600 --> 00:03:39,360 Speaker 1: if it's raining. You can be out there, lie there 68 00:03:39,400 --> 00:03:44,440 Speaker 1: and read. Ideally with some sort of nice beverage in 69 00:03:44,480 --> 00:03:48,680 Speaker 1: the morning, it'd be coffee, evening wine or beer. So 70 00:03:48,760 --> 00:03:51,560 Speaker 1: that's probably my favorite, although I have been on occasion 71 00:03:52,240 --> 00:03:56,920 Speaker 1: soaking in our tub. So we did a master bathroom 72 00:03:57,280 --> 00:04:01,920 Speaker 1: renovation two years ago, put a new tub in, among 73 00:04:01,960 --> 00:04:05,080 Speaker 1: other things that it's definitely a nice tub, and I 74 00:04:05,120 --> 00:04:08,160 Speaker 1: wanted to experience it and not just have it sit there. 75 00:04:08,200 --> 00:04:10,120 Speaker 1: So because it's there, I'm like, okay, I got to 76 00:04:10,240 --> 00:04:13,560 Speaker 1: use it. So I will sit in there and read 77 00:04:13,720 --> 00:04:16,599 Speaker 1: and again have a have a glass of something. The 78 00:04:16,600 --> 00:04:18,200 Speaker 1: one issue with this is that a lot of my 79 00:04:18,279 --> 00:04:21,680 Speaker 1: reading material is currently on my phone because you know, 80 00:04:21,720 --> 00:04:24,760 Speaker 1: I borrow ebooks from the library or buy ebooks. Since 81 00:04:24,839 --> 00:04:27,880 Speaker 1: there's no real good way to you know, go get 82 00:04:27,880 --> 00:04:31,400 Speaker 1: books from the library. I'm like petrified I'm gonna drop 83 00:04:31,480 --> 00:04:34,240 Speaker 1: the phone in the bathtub with me. And then isn't 84 00:04:34,279 --> 00:04:38,600 Speaker 1: your phone waterproof? Is it? I've lost the phone in 85 00:04:38,640 --> 00:04:41,080 Speaker 1: the past. What is your phone? What is your current phone? 86 00:04:41,120 --> 00:04:43,680 Speaker 1: I phone, like, you know whatever, the year and a 87 00:04:43,720 --> 00:04:47,000 Speaker 1: half ago one. That's probably any of the any of 88 00:04:47,040 --> 00:04:51,360 Speaker 1: the ones that have like no real headphone jab where 89 00:04:51,360 --> 00:04:53,440 Speaker 1: it goes. You could actually drop that in the pool 90 00:04:53,480 --> 00:04:56,000 Speaker 1: and be Now nobody's allowed to like assue me if 91 00:04:56,720 --> 00:04:58,680 Speaker 1: I would say, everyone, go drop your phone to the 92 00:04:58,720 --> 00:05:01,880 Speaker 1: pol I am not an electronics issue, but you may 93 00:05:01,920 --> 00:05:03,640 Speaker 1: want to look that up because maybe your fear is 94 00:05:03,680 --> 00:05:07,000 Speaker 1: actually unfounded. All right, Well, then I don't have to 95 00:05:07,040 --> 00:05:09,560 Speaker 1: like hold it way over to the side while I'm 96 00:05:09,600 --> 00:05:15,920 Speaker 1: trying to read. Yeah, so that's what I do. How's 97 00:05:15,960 --> 00:05:19,320 Speaker 1: life going in general? You know as we are? Yeah, 98 00:05:19,360 --> 00:05:21,719 Speaker 1: you know, it's funny because we've recorded the last few 99 00:05:21,720 --> 00:05:24,120 Speaker 1: weeks ahead of time, so I felt kind of bad 100 00:05:24,160 --> 00:05:26,200 Speaker 1: because stuff was happening, and I'm like, wow, we didn't 101 00:05:26,200 --> 00:05:28,080 Speaker 1: really talk about any of that stuff. But this is 102 00:05:28,080 --> 00:05:30,040 Speaker 1: one of those rare episodes where everyone's going to get 103 00:05:30,080 --> 00:05:31,760 Speaker 1: to listen to it just a couple of days after 104 00:05:31,800 --> 00:05:35,000 Speaker 1: we're talking, so this should be up to date. Must 105 00:05:35,040 --> 00:05:38,560 Speaker 1: something crazy happens. You know, life is okay, Like still 106 00:05:38,560 --> 00:05:44,920 Speaker 1: feeling pretty personally lucky about our situation that everyone's staying healthy, 107 00:05:45,000 --> 00:05:47,919 Speaker 1: that we're both able to still work. I am on 108 00:05:48,360 --> 00:05:51,680 Speaker 1: kind of like still this permanent mini furlough kind of 109 00:05:51,680 --> 00:05:53,520 Speaker 1: a thing, although my husband's like, it's not because you're 110 00:05:53,560 --> 00:05:56,040 Speaker 1: getting paid. So they're just having us use one paid 111 00:05:56,120 --> 00:05:58,960 Speaker 1: time off day every paid period, so you came off. 112 00:05:59,080 --> 00:06:02,960 Speaker 1: Keep banking them, correct, because our institution actually pays you 113 00:06:03,000 --> 00:06:05,080 Speaker 1: for those, so I think they don't want people to 114 00:06:05,160 --> 00:06:08,320 Speaker 1: like get a big bonus basically if there is not 115 00:06:08,440 --> 00:06:10,960 Speaker 1: as much work to do, which I don't know how 116 00:06:10,960 --> 00:06:13,679 Speaker 1: true that actually is. But it's working out fine actually 117 00:06:13,839 --> 00:06:15,720 Speaker 1: right now, and I've sort of leaned into it a 118 00:06:15,760 --> 00:06:18,880 Speaker 1: little bit. So I'm off every single week, kids are 119 00:06:18,920 --> 00:06:20,960 Speaker 1: doing school. We can talk more about that on a 120 00:06:20,960 --> 00:06:24,120 Speaker 1: future episode. I don't know. I'm just like very very 121 00:06:24,200 --> 00:06:27,200 Speaker 1: day by day, like each day, focus on my little routines, 122 00:06:27,640 --> 00:06:30,960 Speaker 1: focus on what's going well. And it's been okay. We 123 00:06:31,000 --> 00:06:37,040 Speaker 1: are in a surge though, like in Florida, so that's fun. Yeah, yeah, 124 00:06:37,080 --> 00:06:42,640 Speaker 1: well it'll hopefully go down. I mean, what can we say, 125 00:06:43,560 --> 00:06:47,200 Speaker 1: eventually someday, someday it has to go down, and you're right, 126 00:06:47,240 --> 00:06:49,360 Speaker 1: one way or the other is going to go down. 127 00:06:49,600 --> 00:06:52,880 Speaker 1: So I yeah, I'd like to think we're past it. 128 00:06:52,920 --> 00:06:55,640 Speaker 1: We had our surge early, you know, with the whole Northeast, 129 00:06:56,000 --> 00:06:58,640 Speaker 1: and now we've gone way down. I mean the number 130 00:06:58,680 --> 00:07:02,039 Speaker 1: of total positive tests in Pennsylvania has been hovering about 131 00:07:02,080 --> 00:07:06,880 Speaker 1: five hundred. That's fantastic. Yeah, so, I mean we had 132 00:07:06,920 --> 00:07:10,760 Speaker 1: a lot more than that through March and aprilay our 133 00:07:10,880 --> 00:07:14,840 Speaker 1: daily county positives has been around five hundred. Yeah, the 134 00:07:14,880 --> 00:07:18,000 Speaker 1: state is more like five thousand right now. Yeah. Yeah, 135 00:07:18,280 --> 00:07:21,520 Speaker 1: I don't know. This is so unpredictable, and it's silly 136 00:07:21,520 --> 00:07:23,400 Speaker 1: because this is a podcast. So we're only going to 137 00:07:23,400 --> 00:07:27,280 Speaker 1: look foolish by like trying to predict the future. I mean, 138 00:07:27,320 --> 00:07:29,800 Speaker 1: you could be surging in three weeks and be like, hah, 139 00:07:29,920 --> 00:07:32,960 Speaker 1: that was funny. But you know what. Day by day today, Okay, 140 00:07:33,120 --> 00:07:37,000 Speaker 1: we're healthy, good and hopefully you are too. Listening to this, 141 00:07:38,000 --> 00:07:41,840 Speaker 1: all right, well let's hear from Celeste. Well, Celestie, thank 142 00:07:41,840 --> 00:07:44,440 Speaker 1: you so much for joining us and for being very 143 00:07:44,480 --> 00:07:49,440 Speaker 1: patient with my technological challenges. Can you introduce yourself to 144 00:07:49,520 --> 00:07:53,480 Speaker 1: our listeners. Sure, I'm Celeste Hedley, I have been a 145 00:07:53,560 --> 00:07:56,760 Speaker 1: journalist and anchor with National Public Radio for more than 146 00:07:56,800 --> 00:08:00,880 Speaker 1: twenty years. I have two books, first one called We 147 00:08:00,920 --> 00:08:03,080 Speaker 1: Need to Talk, and the most recent one is Do Nothing, 148 00:08:03,200 --> 00:08:07,960 Speaker 1: How to break away from overworking, overdoing, and underliving, which 149 00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:09,520 Speaker 1: sounds like we all need to do and we will 150 00:08:09,560 --> 00:08:13,720 Speaker 1: definitely talk about that during this episode. You know, you 151 00:08:13,840 --> 00:08:18,200 Speaker 1: had been building your career in public radio and sort 152 00:08:18,200 --> 00:08:22,040 Speaker 1: of going along day to day. Was it twenty fifteen? 153 00:08:22,240 --> 00:08:25,240 Speaker 1: You gave a talk? Right? Tell us about that? I 154 00:08:25,280 --> 00:08:28,000 Speaker 1: gave it a TEDx talk that frankly, I did not 155 00:08:28,280 --> 00:08:31,880 Speaker 1: think anyone would find interesting except me. I mean just honestly, 156 00:08:31,960 --> 00:08:34,800 Speaker 1: because when you talk about conversation, people's eyes glaze over. 157 00:08:34,960 --> 00:08:38,120 Speaker 1: You know, it's one of those soft skills that when 158 00:08:38,160 --> 00:08:41,120 Speaker 1: you get called into communication training at work, you're like, 159 00:08:41,200 --> 00:08:45,440 Speaker 1: oh my god. I did not think it would spark 160 00:08:45,480 --> 00:08:48,120 Speaker 1: any interest, but I was interested in it. And then 161 00:08:48,200 --> 00:08:51,040 Speaker 1: it went super viral. I mean, I think it's like 162 00:08:51,120 --> 00:08:57,120 Speaker 1: nineteen million views or something, which was a shock. So 163 00:08:57,280 --> 00:09:00,280 Speaker 1: my life has changed since twenty fifteen mostly because because 164 00:09:00,480 --> 00:09:03,480 Speaker 1: of that. Well, what do you think people found so 165 00:09:04,360 --> 00:09:07,400 Speaker 1: interesting about it that they wanted to, you know, listen 166 00:09:07,440 --> 00:09:10,240 Speaker 1: to it. And then also share it with friends. I 167 00:09:10,280 --> 00:09:11,840 Speaker 1: don't know that I have an answer for that. I 168 00:09:11,880 --> 00:09:15,360 Speaker 1: will say that I find it encouraging that so that 169 00:09:15,400 --> 00:09:17,800 Speaker 1: many people have viewed it. I think it means that 170 00:09:17,800 --> 00:09:20,960 Speaker 1: that people are recognizing that there's a problem, and that 171 00:09:21,200 --> 00:09:24,360 Speaker 1: they're google They're putting in a Google search of how 172 00:09:24,400 --> 00:09:27,080 Speaker 1: do I have better conversations and then my ted talk 173 00:09:27,080 --> 00:09:29,800 Speaker 1: comes up right like, so, I think that's a good thing. 174 00:09:30,000 --> 00:09:34,760 Speaker 1: It means that people recognize something's going wrong. Why it 175 00:09:34,920 --> 00:09:39,680 Speaker 1: went viral because there's a ton of great talks and 176 00:09:39,800 --> 00:09:43,200 Speaker 1: other things out there resources on conversation. I don't really 177 00:09:43,240 --> 00:09:48,440 Speaker 1: know the jokes. You're just a particularly wonderful person to 178 00:09:48,440 --> 00:09:52,719 Speaker 1: watch give this speech and so's But so after you're 179 00:09:52,760 --> 00:09:56,160 Speaker 1: doing this, you're you're invited to speak everywhere. You know, 180 00:09:56,480 --> 00:10:00,080 Speaker 1: lots of stuff going on with that and and so 181 00:10:00,080 --> 00:10:01,240 Speaker 1: so how did that go? I mean, how did that 182 00:10:01,360 --> 00:10:05,200 Speaker 1: change how your life went? Well? At first, I was 183 00:10:05,240 --> 00:10:08,880 Speaker 1: trying to make it change my life as little as possible, 184 00:10:08,920 --> 00:10:10,800 Speaker 1: Like I assumed all of this was going to be 185 00:10:10,840 --> 00:10:12,400 Speaker 1: a flash in the pan, and I would have a 186 00:10:12,440 --> 00:10:14,960 Speaker 1: year or two of getting good speaking gigs that I'd 187 00:10:15,000 --> 00:10:17,439 Speaker 1: go back to my regular job as a journalist. So 188 00:10:17,920 --> 00:10:20,960 Speaker 1: I basically tried to just fit in all of those 189 00:10:21,000 --> 00:10:24,439 Speaker 1: speeches into my regular workdays, you know, and I just 190 00:10:24,480 --> 00:10:26,480 Speaker 1: take my vacation day and fly out to Houston and 191 00:10:26,480 --> 00:10:28,520 Speaker 1: give a talk and come back the next day and 192 00:10:28,559 --> 00:10:32,000 Speaker 1: go back to work. But it wasn't a flash in 193 00:10:32,040 --> 00:10:36,480 Speaker 1: the pan. It eventually, it just it got so busy 194 00:10:36,720 --> 00:10:39,600 Speaker 1: with talks I had to I couldn't do the full 195 00:10:39,640 --> 00:10:42,120 Speaker 1: time job anymore. So I quit my job. I became 196 00:10:42,320 --> 00:10:45,960 Speaker 1: self employed. I thought that would make me less busy. 197 00:10:49,400 --> 00:10:50,839 Speaker 1: Those of us are our self employed are sort of 198 00:10:50,920 --> 00:10:53,719 Speaker 1: laughing exactly right now. Yes, yes, you guys could have 199 00:10:53,760 --> 00:10:58,760 Speaker 1: warned me. That did not work out as intended. And 200 00:10:59,760 --> 00:11:02,079 Speaker 1: I kind of reached this crisis of the soul in 201 00:11:02,800 --> 00:11:08,320 Speaker 1: late twenty seventeen when I just realized, you know something, 202 00:11:08,600 --> 00:11:11,800 Speaker 1: something's got to give. And that's where the research for 203 00:11:11,880 --> 00:11:14,679 Speaker 1: the most current book started. And the book for our 204 00:11:14,679 --> 00:11:17,200 Speaker 1: listeners again is called Do Nothing. How to Break Away 205 00:11:17,200 --> 00:11:21,560 Speaker 1: from overworking, overdoing, and underliving. And you talk about it 206 00:11:21,600 --> 00:11:24,600 Speaker 1: in this that you know, you thought that making more 207 00:11:24,600 --> 00:11:29,120 Speaker 1: money was going to help you enjoy life more and 208 00:11:29,160 --> 00:11:31,600 Speaker 1: have time for these things that you had not been 209 00:11:31,600 --> 00:11:33,080 Speaker 1: able to do in the past when you're in your 210 00:11:33,120 --> 00:11:36,920 Speaker 1: working paycheck to paycheck. But it turns out there's possibly 211 00:11:36,920 --> 00:11:39,280 Speaker 1: even the reverse of that. And you talk about how 212 00:11:39,320 --> 00:11:40,720 Speaker 1: the more money you make, the more you feel like 213 00:11:40,720 --> 00:11:44,160 Speaker 1: you have no time to waste. What's going on there? Yeah, 214 00:11:44,240 --> 00:11:45,920 Speaker 1: I mean, first of all, there was a few things 215 00:11:45,960 --> 00:11:50,000 Speaker 1: going on. Number one, it's that the offers would get better. 216 00:11:50,200 --> 00:11:53,319 Speaker 1: The more offers I turned down, the higher the prices went. 217 00:11:54,080 --> 00:11:57,240 Speaker 1: So then it would reach this point where you're like, well, 218 00:11:57,280 --> 00:12:02,079 Speaker 1: I can't turn down amount of money, Like how dumb 219 00:12:02,120 --> 00:12:04,000 Speaker 1: am I that they're going to pay me that much 220 00:12:04,040 --> 00:12:06,840 Speaker 1: to give one speech? Right, so then you don't turn 221 00:12:06,880 --> 00:12:12,000 Speaker 1: them down. There's that. I mean obviously, as you start 222 00:12:12,000 --> 00:12:15,360 Speaker 1: to make more money, it then requires more management, right, 223 00:12:15,440 --> 00:12:17,520 Speaker 1: You then need more help. Then you need a brand 224 00:12:17,520 --> 00:12:22,080 Speaker 1: manager and a PR rep and all this other staff, 225 00:12:22,240 --> 00:12:25,840 Speaker 1: and then the management of that staff becomes right, so 226 00:12:25,920 --> 00:12:28,400 Speaker 1: then you're not an LLC anymore. I mean you're not 227 00:12:28,440 --> 00:12:31,160 Speaker 1: even just a business declared business. Then you're the LLC. 228 00:12:31,280 --> 00:12:33,440 Speaker 1: And then LLC isn't kind of cut it anymore. Then 229 00:12:33,440 --> 00:12:36,479 Speaker 1: you need to become an escort and it just escalates. 230 00:12:36,520 --> 00:12:39,080 Speaker 1: And believe me, I'm not whining over oh poor me, 231 00:12:39,200 --> 00:12:41,400 Speaker 1: I'm making so much money, more money. It's just that 232 00:12:41,520 --> 00:12:45,920 Speaker 1: my whole life, having been broke, I was a public 233 00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:49,600 Speaker 1: radio reporter and part time opera singer. Okay, I was broken. 234 00:12:50,040 --> 00:12:54,000 Speaker 1: Neither of those are known as exactly am High I 235 00:12:54,080 --> 00:12:57,320 Speaker 1: might mention that too. Yes, so having been broke my 236 00:12:57,320 --> 00:12:59,559 Speaker 1: whole life I had just I had all these ideas 237 00:12:59,600 --> 00:13:01,680 Speaker 1: about what it would look like, what my life would 238 00:13:01,679 --> 00:13:04,520 Speaker 1: look like when I had enough money, and I thought 239 00:13:04,559 --> 00:13:06,800 Speaker 1: I would have time, you know, I thought I would 240 00:13:06,880 --> 00:13:10,400 Speaker 1: learn to play the guitar and travel to New YORKA 241 00:13:10,440 --> 00:13:14,600 Speaker 1: and visit all my friends at least once a year. Right. 242 00:13:14,640 --> 00:13:17,360 Speaker 1: I had all these plans, and none of that came true, 243 00:13:17,480 --> 00:13:20,920 Speaker 1: none of it. I had less time than I had before. Yeah, 244 00:13:20,960 --> 00:13:23,240 Speaker 1: And so unless your friend is in Houston as you're 245 00:13:23,240 --> 00:13:25,400 Speaker 1: giving the speech, exactly, it is just kind of out 246 00:13:25,440 --> 00:13:27,840 Speaker 1: of luck there. And you talk about how some of 247 00:13:27,880 --> 00:13:31,720 Speaker 1: this is historic too, that you know, people worked obviously 248 00:13:31,840 --> 00:13:33,920 Speaker 1: very hard in the past, and you talk about your 249 00:13:34,840 --> 00:13:37,679 Speaker 1: relations and family tree. You come from a long line 250 00:13:37,720 --> 00:13:41,480 Speaker 1: of hard workers, and people want to google Celestis extended 251 00:13:41,520 --> 00:13:43,160 Speaker 1: Family if you want to learn more about that. But 252 00:13:43,320 --> 00:13:50,199 Speaker 1: the Sideline music people, but they still had some time 253 00:13:50,280 --> 00:13:54,240 Speaker 1: for these leisure pursuits. So what was going on with that? Yeah, 254 00:13:54,240 --> 00:13:56,199 Speaker 1: I mean it's incredible. Right. There was one day when 255 00:13:56,200 --> 00:13:59,640 Speaker 1: I came home from work and I was just exhausted, 256 00:14:00,280 --> 00:14:02,600 Speaker 1: and I flopped down on the couch and I was like, 257 00:14:02,800 --> 00:14:04,600 Speaker 1: I looked toward my kitchen. I thought, there is no 258 00:14:04,679 --> 00:14:06,760 Speaker 1: way I am making a meal from scratch to night. 259 00:14:06,840 --> 00:14:09,080 Speaker 1: I do not have it in me. And I just 260 00:14:09,200 --> 00:14:13,560 Speaker 1: happened to let my gaze rest on my microwave, and 261 00:14:13,880 --> 00:14:17,959 Speaker 1: I just started realizing, you know, my grandmother and great grandmother, 262 00:14:18,040 --> 00:14:20,680 Speaker 1: they did not have a microwave. Oh, and they probably 263 00:14:20,720 --> 00:14:24,080 Speaker 1: didn't have that dishwasher or that instinct disposal or that 264 00:14:24,240 --> 00:14:27,080 Speaker 1: robot vacuum in the corner or And I started going 265 00:14:27,160 --> 00:14:29,520 Speaker 1: around my house adding up all of the things that 266 00:14:29,560 --> 00:14:32,200 Speaker 1: I owned that saved me time, because you're right. My 267 00:14:32,760 --> 00:14:37,800 Speaker 1: grandmother she belonged to the Rotary Club and the Lions Club, 268 00:14:37,840 --> 00:14:39,680 Speaker 1: and they had you know, they'd go on a vacation 269 00:14:39,760 --> 00:14:42,000 Speaker 1: and then they invite all the neighbors over to look 270 00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:46,440 Speaker 1: at their slides, and they did card They played card 271 00:14:46,520 --> 00:14:50,520 Speaker 1: games on Friday nights. And she jarred all of her 272 00:14:50,560 --> 00:14:55,200 Speaker 1: own fruit and pickles and made her own jam and 273 00:14:55,240 --> 00:14:57,920 Speaker 1: all these other things that they did, and I started thinking, 274 00:14:58,440 --> 00:15:00,920 Speaker 1: how did she have the time. And then if you 275 00:15:00,960 --> 00:15:03,760 Speaker 1: go back to my great grandmother getting ice in blocks 276 00:15:03,840 --> 00:15:06,840 Speaker 1: from an iceman that came by, you know, so she 277 00:15:06,880 --> 00:15:09,840 Speaker 1: could slide it into a wooden box to try and 278 00:15:09,920 --> 00:15:14,160 Speaker 1: keep her food fresh. I just began to really wonder 279 00:15:14,200 --> 00:15:17,800 Speaker 1: where is my time going? Right? I really should have 280 00:15:18,000 --> 00:15:21,480 Speaker 1: a lot more time. I mean, and frankly you haven't 281 00:15:21,480 --> 00:15:23,480 Speaker 1: mentioned it yet, but I quote you in this book, 282 00:15:23,480 --> 00:15:25,840 Speaker 1: and I refer to your book because this is exactly 283 00:15:25,880 --> 00:15:29,680 Speaker 1: the field that you're working in. Is this idea that 284 00:15:29,720 --> 00:15:33,440 Speaker 1: we're it's a true feeling, this feeling that we're overwhelmed. 285 00:15:33,440 --> 00:15:38,400 Speaker 1: It is true, but it's not based on reality, if 286 00:15:38,400 --> 00:15:41,560 Speaker 1: that makes sense. We really do feel overwhelmed, and there's 287 00:15:41,960 --> 00:15:44,200 Speaker 1: good reason for us to feel that way, but it's 288 00:15:44,200 --> 00:15:46,920 Speaker 1: not actually based on our being too busy. We have 289 00:15:47,000 --> 00:16:01,840 Speaker 1: more free time than we think. So Celeste sites, yes, 290 00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:04,040 Speaker 1: she said for our listeners, some of my research and 291 00:16:04,080 --> 00:16:07,000 Speaker 1: other people pointing out that, yeah, we may not be 292 00:16:07,080 --> 00:16:10,080 Speaker 1: quite as busy as we think. And you know, so 293 00:16:10,120 --> 00:16:13,040 Speaker 1: we have this feeling, and yet you've tracked your time, 294 00:16:13,400 --> 00:16:16,640 Speaker 1: and you know there is some time there. I mean, 295 00:16:16,640 --> 00:16:18,920 Speaker 1: you're obviously a very busy person, but there's there's some 296 00:16:18,960 --> 00:16:24,360 Speaker 1: time there? Is it that because there are competing things? 297 00:16:24,480 --> 00:16:27,480 Speaker 1: Is because our phones? I mean there's options for all 298 00:16:27,520 --> 00:16:32,040 Speaker 1: these minutes. I mean, what leads to this gap between 299 00:16:32,080 --> 00:16:35,520 Speaker 1: perception and reality? You know, there's a lot of different factors, 300 00:16:35,560 --> 00:16:38,800 Speaker 1: but I can mention the few biggest ones. Number one 301 00:16:38,880 --> 00:16:43,560 Speaker 1: is that we're living in a distracted society. Right. Psychologists say, 302 00:16:43,600 --> 00:16:48,520 Speaker 1: we have this constant absent presence, meaning that we're here, 303 00:16:48,720 --> 00:16:52,440 Speaker 1: but we're not actually mentally here. We're constantly distracted, and 304 00:16:52,440 --> 00:16:55,160 Speaker 1: that takes a real toll on your brain. That the 305 00:16:55,240 --> 00:16:59,080 Speaker 1: attempts to multitask, which again the human being can't multitask, 306 00:16:59,360 --> 00:17:03,480 Speaker 1: but the a to multitask will wear you out mentally 307 00:17:03,600 --> 00:17:07,440 Speaker 1: and actually physically. So every time you get that shot 308 00:17:07,440 --> 00:17:10,640 Speaker 1: of dopamine, for example, when you open your Facebook feed 309 00:17:10,720 --> 00:17:12,879 Speaker 1: or your Instagram feed, every time you check your email 310 00:17:12,880 --> 00:17:14,800 Speaker 1: and you get that tiny little shot of dopamine, it 311 00:17:14,840 --> 00:17:17,760 Speaker 1: makes you feel more productive, but it actually is not 312 00:17:17,800 --> 00:17:21,120 Speaker 1: accomplishing more for you, and yet it's wearing you out. 313 00:17:21,320 --> 00:17:24,119 Speaker 1: If you're getting that dopamine shot all day long, you 314 00:17:24,119 --> 00:17:26,360 Speaker 1: will end up being exhausted by the end of the day. 315 00:17:26,640 --> 00:17:29,520 Speaker 1: The other thing is that we're not taking actual breaks. 316 00:17:30,240 --> 00:17:32,560 Speaker 1: So most people they'll get like ten or fifteen minutes, 317 00:17:32,560 --> 00:17:34,480 Speaker 1: and what do they do. They wander into the breakroom 318 00:17:34,560 --> 00:17:36,720 Speaker 1: or something, and they'll be scanning through their phone the 319 00:17:36,720 --> 00:17:41,640 Speaker 1: whole time. But your brain does not distinguish between shopping 320 00:17:41,680 --> 00:17:46,200 Speaker 1: for boots on Zappos and an actual work You may 321 00:17:46,240 --> 00:17:49,240 Speaker 1: think there's a distinction, but your brain and body certainly don't. 322 00:17:49,480 --> 00:17:51,480 Speaker 1: So as far as your brain and body are concerned, 323 00:17:51,480 --> 00:17:54,920 Speaker 1: you are still working. And so therefore, if you spend 324 00:17:54,960 --> 00:17:58,560 Speaker 1: your entire day staring at these screens that are overloading 325 00:17:58,600 --> 00:18:03,040 Speaker 1: your brain circuits, yes you will feel more tired by 326 00:18:03,040 --> 00:18:06,240 Speaker 1: the end of the day, but you probably haven't accomplished more. 327 00:18:07,160 --> 00:18:09,600 Speaker 1: And there's an interesting gender dimension to this that you 328 00:18:09,640 --> 00:18:13,240 Speaker 1: write about as well, that men may be more likely 329 00:18:13,320 --> 00:18:17,679 Speaker 1: to take an actual break during the work day, and 330 00:18:17,880 --> 00:18:20,600 Speaker 1: women may be more likely to use what would have 331 00:18:20,600 --> 00:18:24,480 Speaker 1: been a break to do some household or personal task 332 00:18:24,560 --> 00:18:27,080 Speaker 1: that they're trying to get ahead on. So what's going 333 00:18:27,080 --> 00:18:29,560 Speaker 1: on with that? I mean, there's a few reasons for that. 334 00:18:30,520 --> 00:18:32,880 Speaker 1: Number One, we simply have more to do. I mean, 335 00:18:33,040 --> 00:18:36,960 Speaker 1: we are required in almost every household to be the 336 00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:41,120 Speaker 1: administrator of the household, and at work, we're way more 337 00:18:41,240 --> 00:18:43,840 Speaker 1: likely to be required to be the administrator at work 338 00:18:43,880 --> 00:18:46,080 Speaker 1: even if we're not in that position. In other words, 339 00:18:46,119 --> 00:18:48,280 Speaker 1: we're the one that needs to keep track of whether 340 00:18:48,359 --> 00:18:52,200 Speaker 1: this is what is the good coffee that everybody likes? Right? Who? 341 00:18:52,200 --> 00:18:54,320 Speaker 1: When is everybody's birthday? And what are we doing for 342 00:18:54,400 --> 00:18:56,080 Speaker 1: that birthday? And who's going to go buy the card 343 00:18:56,119 --> 00:18:58,719 Speaker 1: and then pass it around the entire office so everybody signs. 344 00:18:58,880 --> 00:19:01,639 Speaker 1: Oh wait, who's going to note that the CEO didn't 345 00:19:01,680 --> 00:19:05,040 Speaker 1: sign and then walk it up to probably his office 346 00:19:05,160 --> 00:19:08,400 Speaker 1: and get his signature. So, yes, we have more to do. 347 00:19:08,880 --> 00:19:13,000 Speaker 1: But also we have been you know, the Silent Revolution 348 00:19:13,640 --> 00:19:16,920 Speaker 1: when women flooded into workplaces was what the nineteen seventies, 349 00:19:17,480 --> 00:19:20,879 Speaker 1: So we really haven't been in workplaces office spaces for 350 00:19:21,160 --> 00:19:24,760 Speaker 1: really all that long, and we are still called upon 351 00:19:25,760 --> 00:19:29,639 Speaker 1: to justify our presence there and prove that we deserve 352 00:19:29,680 --> 00:19:32,399 Speaker 1: it and prove that we earned it. So there's this 353 00:19:32,640 --> 00:19:36,000 Speaker 1: extra pressure on us that's real in that, yes, you 354 00:19:36,160 --> 00:19:39,120 Speaker 1: have to really achieve to get ahead as a female, 355 00:19:39,440 --> 00:19:42,159 Speaker 1: whereas that's not always the case with men. I'm not 356 00:19:42,200 --> 00:19:44,639 Speaker 1: talking about race here, I'm just talking about gender. And 357 00:19:44,680 --> 00:19:47,680 Speaker 1: then there's also our perception that we have that we 358 00:19:47,800 --> 00:19:53,120 Speaker 1: need to constantly prove that we're hard workers. Yeah, there's 359 00:19:53,160 --> 00:19:59,120 Speaker 1: a lot of that going on. We're good, productive people, 360 00:19:59,440 --> 00:20:01,720 Speaker 1: you know that. But you know, one thing you talk 361 00:20:01,760 --> 00:20:04,639 Speaker 1: about is that one way to feel less busy is 362 00:20:04,680 --> 00:20:07,560 Speaker 1: to take up a hobby, hobby that requires a lot 363 00:20:07,600 --> 00:20:09,840 Speaker 1: of time. Now, this seems like could be a bit 364 00:20:09,840 --> 00:20:12,679 Speaker 1: of a paradox here, because here I'm feeling so busy 365 00:20:13,160 --> 00:20:16,280 Speaker 1: and Celeste is telling me, no, go take up woodworking 366 00:20:16,560 --> 00:20:20,199 Speaker 1: or something along those lines. So why is that going 367 00:20:20,240 --> 00:20:23,560 Speaker 1: to make me feel less busy? Oftentimes hobbies that take 368 00:20:23,560 --> 00:20:27,240 Speaker 1: a lot of time are slow, right, woodworking is slow, 369 00:20:28,040 --> 00:20:32,159 Speaker 1: and so just forcing yourself to slow down like that 370 00:20:32,160 --> 00:20:35,040 Speaker 1: that has shown to reap a huge amount of benefits 371 00:20:35,080 --> 00:20:37,800 Speaker 1: every time that they've studied it. When they force people 372 00:20:37,840 --> 00:20:42,080 Speaker 1: to slow down, it actually lowers your heart rate. I mean, 373 00:20:42,080 --> 00:20:44,000 Speaker 1: that makes perfect sense when you hear it, but we 374 00:20:44,040 --> 00:20:47,240 Speaker 1: don't think about it that way. It lowers your cortisol levels, 375 00:20:47,240 --> 00:20:51,960 Speaker 1: which is your stress hormone, and when you are even 376 00:20:52,160 --> 00:20:54,959 Speaker 1: think that you are rushed for time, it has a 377 00:20:55,119 --> 00:20:58,680 Speaker 1: bunch of negative effects. Even if you're not rushed for time, 378 00:20:58,680 --> 00:21:01,159 Speaker 1: but you believe that you are are it's going to 379 00:21:01,240 --> 00:21:05,600 Speaker 1: have negative impacts on your decision making because you're Amigdala 380 00:21:05,680 --> 00:21:08,680 Speaker 1: takes over right your fight or flight brain, which means 381 00:21:08,680 --> 00:21:11,280 Speaker 1: you probably will make worse decisions, which means there's going 382 00:21:11,359 --> 00:21:14,679 Speaker 1: to be more errors, and it becomes this repeating cycle. 383 00:21:14,760 --> 00:21:16,639 Speaker 1: So taking up a hobby that takes a lot of 384 00:21:16,680 --> 00:21:20,280 Speaker 1: time breaks you out of that cycle. It takes you 385 00:21:20,320 --> 00:21:24,080 Speaker 1: off the treadmill. And oftentimes a hobby that takes a 386 00:21:24,119 --> 00:21:25,520 Speaker 1: lot of time is one that you're not going to 387 00:21:25,560 --> 00:21:27,920 Speaker 1: be great at when you start it, and I totally 388 00:21:27,960 --> 00:21:31,040 Speaker 1: support that. I want everyone to take up something that 389 00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:34,760 Speaker 1: they suck at at first, because this idea that everything 390 00:21:34,760 --> 00:21:36,280 Speaker 1: that you do has to be you have to be 391 00:21:36,320 --> 00:21:38,199 Speaker 1: great at it. It It has to be pinterest worthy, and 392 00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:40,399 Speaker 1: you know, you have to be able to photograph it 393 00:21:40,440 --> 00:21:42,919 Speaker 1: and put it on Instagram or else you're gonna end 394 00:21:42,960 --> 00:21:44,640 Speaker 1: up on that show nailed it, so they can make 395 00:21:44,640 --> 00:21:48,720 Speaker 1: fun of you. Like it is okay to suck at 396 00:21:48,720 --> 00:21:52,640 Speaker 1: something at first. Some of the most valuable skills there 397 00:21:52,680 --> 00:21:56,920 Speaker 1: are are hard to learn. I see a music stand 398 00:21:56,960 --> 00:21:59,760 Speaker 1: in the background, so you probably know what I'm talking about. Yea, 399 00:22:00,119 --> 00:22:02,359 Speaker 1: we're into music over here. I'm trying to teach my 400 00:22:02,480 --> 00:22:04,679 Speaker 1: children that that you are not good or bad at it, 401 00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:08,880 Speaker 1: you just haven't spent much time on it. Yep, yeah, exactly. 402 00:22:09,200 --> 00:22:12,879 Speaker 1: If you do, you will in fact get better. So 403 00:22:13,280 --> 00:22:15,159 Speaker 1: I think some people, you know, the title of your 404 00:22:15,160 --> 00:22:19,000 Speaker 1: book is do nothing, Yeah, which maybe a lot of 405 00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:21,919 Speaker 1: people may have a slightly negative reaction to that idea, 406 00:22:22,080 --> 00:22:24,240 Speaker 1: like what, I'm supposed to do nothing? How could I 407 00:22:24,280 --> 00:22:30,080 Speaker 1: do nothing? But what's the difference between idleness and laziness? 408 00:22:30,119 --> 00:22:33,200 Speaker 1: Because you are, not, in fact advocating laziness, And anyone 409 00:22:33,200 --> 00:22:35,840 Speaker 1: who knows Celeste or her career knows that there's not 410 00:22:35,880 --> 00:22:38,560 Speaker 1: a whole lot of laziness involved in this. So what 411 00:22:38,720 --> 00:22:41,359 Speaker 1: is the difference between idleness and laziness? And I find 412 00:22:41,359 --> 00:22:45,040 Speaker 1: that ironic even with myself, that when I very first 413 00:22:45,520 --> 00:22:49,639 Speaker 1: began to consider idleness, I also immediately connected it to laziness. 414 00:22:49,680 --> 00:22:53,280 Speaker 1: They're not the same thing. Laziness is the is the 415 00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:57,679 Speaker 1: resistance to doing anything right. It's the it's the resistance 416 00:22:57,720 --> 00:23:01,480 Speaker 1: to doing work. Idleness it just means that you're not active, 417 00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:04,719 Speaker 1: physically active at them time. Your brain is always active 418 00:23:04,760 --> 00:23:08,280 Speaker 1: so we're never talking about mental inactivity, but you know 419 00:23:08,880 --> 00:23:11,800 Speaker 1: it's not. Being idle is not the same as not working. 420 00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:15,399 Speaker 1: For example, right, a fisherman is idle while they're working, 421 00:23:16,040 --> 00:23:19,760 Speaker 1: and possibly active when they're not working. So we have 422 00:23:19,880 --> 00:23:24,760 Speaker 1: to decouple this idea of idleness and activity from work. 423 00:23:25,080 --> 00:23:27,800 Speaker 1: They're not the same. And the reason I say that 424 00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:30,240 Speaker 1: you have to decouple them is because if you think 425 00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:33,240 Speaker 1: that idleness is the same as laziness, it's going to 426 00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:36,800 Speaker 1: give you feelings of guilt whenever you stop being active. 427 00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:42,560 Speaker 1: And I want to make everyone free from guilt because 428 00:23:42,600 --> 00:23:45,840 Speaker 1: of inactivity. I want people to be able to sit 429 00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:49,080 Speaker 1: on their front porch for a half hour and just 430 00:23:49,240 --> 00:23:52,080 Speaker 1: sit and watch the world go by and feel zero 431 00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:56,240 Speaker 1: guilt about that, because, oddly enough, that time that you 432 00:23:56,320 --> 00:24:00,639 Speaker 1: spend sitting on your front porch watching birds is very 433 00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:03,480 Speaker 1: productive time. Because what's going on in your brain then? 434 00:24:03,800 --> 00:24:06,840 Speaker 1: And why does your brain need that? Got? Right? Because 435 00:24:06,840 --> 00:24:11,080 Speaker 1: the human brain, it doesn't persistent pulses. It pulses between 436 00:24:11,119 --> 00:24:15,639 Speaker 1: activity and idleness at leisure, I should say, and your brain, 437 00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:19,240 Speaker 1: a human brain needs to be able to not be 438 00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:22,240 Speaker 1: directed in order to be creative and innovative. Right, So 439 00:24:22,280 --> 00:24:25,840 Speaker 1: we have two. I'm going to very much dumbed down 440 00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:30,080 Speaker 1: neuroscience here, but you know, there's, in essence, there's kind 441 00:24:30,119 --> 00:24:33,680 Speaker 1: of two forms of thinking. Right, there's your analytical brain 442 00:24:33,760 --> 00:24:38,040 Speaker 1: and there's your insightful brain and your analytical brain. If 443 00:24:38,080 --> 00:24:40,600 Speaker 1: you're thinking, okay, if I drive the speed limit of 444 00:24:40,640 --> 00:24:42,199 Speaker 1: sixty five miles an hour, how long is it going 445 00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:44,200 Speaker 1: to take me to get into my parents' house for Thanksgiving? 446 00:24:44,440 --> 00:24:49,040 Speaker 1: That's an analytical brain problem. Obviously, there's a persistent history 447 00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:51,639 Speaker 1: of racism and discrimination in our society. How do we 448 00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:54,520 Speaker 1: solve that at my own company? That is an insightful 449 00:24:54,520 --> 00:24:58,280 Speaker 1: brain problem. And if you bring your analytical brain to it, 450 00:24:58,320 --> 00:25:00,320 Speaker 1: you're gonna end up making some of the good proofs 451 00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:03,520 Speaker 1: and gaffs and horrible mistakes that people have made in 452 00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:06,399 Speaker 1: the past, which means you have to allow your brain 453 00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:09,520 Speaker 1: to click into its deep thinking. You have to let 454 00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:13,440 Speaker 1: it go into default thinking mode. Default meet thinking mode 455 00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:17,520 Speaker 1: only occurs when the brain is not directed. So if 456 00:25:17,560 --> 00:25:20,679 Speaker 1: you're sitting there folding laundry, it's a good chance that 457 00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:23,680 Speaker 1: as long as you're not trying to multitask, and you're 458 00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:27,199 Speaker 1: also listening to a historic podcast or also on a 459 00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:30,960 Speaker 1: conference call. Your brain will start to wander, It will 460 00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:35,120 Speaker 1: start to sift through the memories and information that you've 461 00:25:35,119 --> 00:25:39,000 Speaker 1: taken in recently. It will begin to make unexpected connections 462 00:25:39,359 --> 00:25:42,360 Speaker 1: because you're not forcing it to focus on a task, 463 00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:45,479 Speaker 1: and so it's just gonna the librarian is just going 464 00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:48,359 Speaker 1: to wander through the stacks and sort of pull books 465 00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:51,719 Speaker 1: out at random and come up with new ideas and 466 00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:56,120 Speaker 1: new innovations and creative thoughts. And we need that, Like literally, 467 00:25:56,160 --> 00:25:57,920 Speaker 1: that kind of creative thought is one of the things 468 00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:01,760 Speaker 1: that distinguish Homo sapiens from other species. Like that's literally 469 00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:04,480 Speaker 1: part of our humanity. And yet, at this point in time, 470 00:26:04,520 --> 00:26:08,200 Speaker 1: when we're not allowing ourselves to ever be unfocused, when 471 00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:12,400 Speaker 1: we require ourselves to be working on something productive and efficient, 472 00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:15,360 Speaker 1: something we can check off our checklist at all times, 473 00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:18,479 Speaker 1: to my mind, losing some of our humanity because we're 474 00:26:18,520 --> 00:26:21,000 Speaker 1: losing some of the best thought we have. So what 475 00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:23,159 Speaker 1: do you like to do when you're being idle and 476 00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:26,080 Speaker 1: get your good thoughts? I mean there's lots of things 477 00:26:26,119 --> 00:26:29,040 Speaker 1: I like to do. I do embroidery, to cross stitch, 478 00:26:29,960 --> 00:26:33,280 Speaker 1: which requires I have adult add So I need to 479 00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:38,000 Speaker 1: like something that's very sort of requires a lot of 480 00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:42,120 Speaker 1: focus because that'll switch take It requires a whole half 481 00:26:42,119 --> 00:26:44,080 Speaker 1: of my brain and then the other half gets to 482 00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:47,840 Speaker 1: wander around and have a good time. So I really 483 00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:49,879 Speaker 1: like to do embroidery. I like to do I've been 484 00:26:49,920 --> 00:26:53,439 Speaker 1: learning lettering. Yeah, lettering where you get the little practice 485 00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:58,720 Speaker 1: books and yeah, is that like calligraphears that? Yeah, although yes, 486 00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:01,840 Speaker 1: I mean in essence, but there's other you know, lettering 487 00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:04,919 Speaker 1: also refers to like block letters, and you know, you 488 00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:08,320 Speaker 1: know all the kinds of pretty lettering that I like too, 489 00:27:08,359 --> 00:27:13,800 Speaker 1: graphic fun. I never claim to not be a nerd. 490 00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:19,000 Speaker 1: Look and I and I those of us who spend 491 00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:24,960 Speaker 1: our lives reading research studies. Laura, come on you, we're 492 00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:30,760 Speaker 1: trying to dort. So I like opera too, I'll confess 493 00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:32,920 Speaker 1: as well. So so there you go. And I grow 494 00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:36,400 Speaker 1: my own plants, and you know it takes me a cup. 495 00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:38,160 Speaker 1: I have so many plans it takes me a couple 496 00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:40,000 Speaker 1: hours to water them on all and tend to them 497 00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:43,560 Speaker 1: all every Saturday. And you know I have a I 498 00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:45,040 Speaker 1: don't know if you can see that. I'm getting a 499 00:27:45,119 --> 00:27:47,000 Speaker 1: video tour here for our listeners. I'm getting a video 500 00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:52,639 Speaker 1: my mosque garden. Oh nice, nice. Yeah, So you know, 501 00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:56,680 Speaker 1: stuff that is time consuming but pulls my focus and 502 00:27:56,720 --> 00:27:59,320 Speaker 1: yet allows my mind to wander. So that's our takeaway 503 00:27:59,320 --> 00:28:01,600 Speaker 1: from this episode, Listeners, is that you need a moss 504 00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:09,240 Speaker 1: garden and it will change your life. Right selest clean 505 00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:13,520 Speaker 1: your air, also clean your air also also good. So 506 00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:16,320 Speaker 1: Sarah and I tend to like to do a love 507 00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:20,879 Speaker 1: of the week, which is something that is fun for 508 00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:23,640 Speaker 1: us that we're enjoying this week. It could be your 509 00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:26,920 Speaker 1: moss garden, it could be something else along those lines. 510 00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:31,199 Speaker 1: What's really exciting for you right now? What's really exciting 511 00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:34,080 Speaker 1: for me right now? Actually? I found like my perfect breakfast. 512 00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:36,560 Speaker 1: I don't know if this, I don't know if this counts, 513 00:28:37,119 --> 00:28:40,240 Speaker 1: but I found this recipe which is like one chicken 514 00:28:40,280 --> 00:28:43,200 Speaker 1: apple sausage link and then you sawte it with a 515 00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:46,080 Speaker 1: cut up half of a cut up granny apple Granny 516 00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:50,480 Speaker 1: Smith apple, and then you toss in some cooked sweet 517 00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:53,880 Speaker 1: potato and like a teaspoon of thyme, and you just 518 00:28:53,920 --> 00:28:55,960 Speaker 1: sawte it all up and it is like the best 519 00:28:55,960 --> 00:29:00,160 Speaker 1: breakfast I've ever had. It is phenomenal. I will have 520 00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:03,000 Speaker 1: to try that. I'm sure it's the teaspoon of time. 521 00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:06,120 Speaker 1: That's like and I want to call something a teaspoon 522 00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:09,680 Speaker 1: of time, but with a different spelling of time, that 523 00:29:09,680 --> 00:29:12,680 Speaker 1: would be that would be great. So I'll say mine 524 00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:15,400 Speaker 1: is that we're going strawberry picking. I was worried we 525 00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:17,600 Speaker 1: would not be able to this. This is airing in 526 00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:19,360 Speaker 1: late June, so the strawberry season will be over, but 527 00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:23,400 Speaker 1: we're recording in early June. We still have you know, 528 00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:25,120 Speaker 1: we had to stay at home order through much of 529 00:29:25,560 --> 00:29:29,120 Speaker 1: strawberry season, but it was lifted in time to still 530 00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:32,800 Speaker 1: go do it. So very excited something my kids always 531 00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:36,480 Speaker 1: very picking. Yeah do you cook? Do you just eat 532 00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:39,600 Speaker 1: the strawberries raw or do you put them in things? Both? 533 00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:43,680 Speaker 1: Usually we have a lot of children, so there's a 534 00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:46,120 Speaker 1: lot of strawberries that usually come home from these expeditions, 535 00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:48,760 Speaker 1: so there's enough to eat. And then you know, we 536 00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:54,400 Speaker 1: tend to make strawberry shortcake and you know, I probably 537 00:29:54,400 --> 00:29:57,160 Speaker 1: most of them get eaten in that form. U. But 538 00:29:57,320 --> 00:30:00,360 Speaker 1: there's been strawberry syrup. The kids learned to cook down 539 00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:02,680 Speaker 1: to make a strawberry syrup. That was That was kind 540 00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:05,320 Speaker 1: of that's a great consuming hobby. Yeah, it is a 541 00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:08,480 Speaker 1: time consuming hobby. If we're all about trying to fill 542 00:30:08,560 --> 00:30:13,840 Speaker 1: time right now? Which you are you still quarantined with 543 00:30:13,880 --> 00:30:17,000 Speaker 1: your son? Or is that he went home at at 544 00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:19,760 Speaker 1: home two and a half weeks ago? He has been again, 545 00:30:19,800 --> 00:30:23,320 Speaker 1: we're recording in early June. He has been protesting in Atlanta. 546 00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:27,880 Speaker 1: So yeah, he went home, and I am an empty 547 00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:30,480 Speaker 1: nester for just a little bit longer before my house 548 00:30:30,920 --> 00:30:34,160 Speaker 1: guest comes back. And I know you're not there, so 549 00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:38,240 Speaker 1: I hate to praise my time spent alone in the 550 00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:41,960 Speaker 1: house too much. I don't want to do that to you. 551 00:30:42,080 --> 00:30:45,960 Speaker 1: But alway, is it nice? Yeah? Yeah, you know he's 552 00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:48,680 Speaker 1: off doing good things, so it's all good, All good, Yeah, 553 00:30:48,760 --> 00:30:51,120 Speaker 1: all right, well, Celas, thank you so much for joining us. 554 00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:53,840 Speaker 1: We really appreciate it, my pleasure. Thanks for having me. 555 00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:59,040 Speaker 1: All right, Well, that was a fun interview, and so 556 00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:04,680 Speaker 1: now to cue the question part of this episode, shall 557 00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:07,200 Speaker 1: I read it Sarah? Okay, there, go for it. All right? 558 00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:09,480 Speaker 1: So this, well this was sentenced to Sarah. But can 559 00:31:09,520 --> 00:31:12,120 Speaker 1: you speak to giving feedback to household employees such as 560 00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:15,160 Speaker 1: nanny's and housekeepers. I find this is difficult because these 561 00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:17,680 Speaker 1: people are involved in such personal parts of our lives. 562 00:31:18,120 --> 00:31:21,320 Speaker 1: This particular reader or listener was a two physician household 563 00:31:21,320 --> 00:31:23,880 Speaker 1: with three kids, one of him has special needs, and 564 00:31:23,920 --> 00:31:26,520 Speaker 1: so they need quite a bit of help in their lives, 565 00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:29,960 Speaker 1: and she says she feels grateful obviously for the help. 566 00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:32,600 Speaker 1: On the other hand, feels resentful because she's paying a 567 00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:34,800 Speaker 1: lot of money and if things aren't going as she'd 568 00:31:34,840 --> 00:31:38,560 Speaker 1: like them to go, then she's not happy. In this case, 569 00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:40,840 Speaker 1: she says it may be difficult for her personality as 570 00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:45,560 Speaker 1: she tends to avoid conflict. So any suggestions, So, I 571 00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:49,680 Speaker 1: think it's, first of all, I think you're right to 572 00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:53,520 Speaker 1: think about this, and I don't think avoiding is a 573 00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:58,440 Speaker 1: viable permanent solution because the things that are going to 574 00:31:58,480 --> 00:32:00,560 Speaker 1: go on in your house are going to affect your 575 00:32:00,600 --> 00:32:02,760 Speaker 1: life on a very daily basis. So I do think 576 00:32:02,800 --> 00:32:05,080 Speaker 1: that kind of like gritting your teeth and bearing it 577 00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:08,920 Speaker 1: is probably not the right answer, although not knowing exactly 578 00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:11,440 Speaker 1: what you're focusing on is it is hard to know. 579 00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:16,000 Speaker 1: I would say. I mean, we definitely provide feedback, but 580 00:32:16,240 --> 00:32:19,800 Speaker 1: you have to also make sure that you are a 581 00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:24,280 Speaker 1: being realistic and be showing appreciation for what that person 582 00:32:24,320 --> 00:32:26,560 Speaker 1: probably is doing for you. So even if there are 583 00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:30,239 Speaker 1: a few things that are not going perfectly. There are 584 00:32:30,280 --> 00:32:33,000 Speaker 1: probably many things that are going well, and I do 585 00:32:33,040 --> 00:32:35,960 Speaker 1: think sometimes we don't take enough time to tell people 586 00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:38,920 Speaker 1: when things are going well. So make sure when you 587 00:32:38,920 --> 00:32:40,840 Speaker 1: do sit down with them, talk about all the things 588 00:32:40,840 --> 00:32:43,160 Speaker 1: that are working about the relationship. I mean, obviously there's 589 00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:46,600 Speaker 1: some things because the person's still here. And then maybe 590 00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:49,960 Speaker 1: kind of instead of saying this isn't working, delve into 591 00:32:50,320 --> 00:32:52,920 Speaker 1: how it's affecting you, say like, this is something that 592 00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:55,480 Speaker 1: I've been noticing that's bothering me. What do you think 593 00:32:55,520 --> 00:32:59,400 Speaker 1: about this? And that way, instead of being like I 594 00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:01,080 Speaker 1: need you to do X, Y and Z because there 595 00:33:01,080 --> 00:33:03,040 Speaker 1: may be a reason why they can't, you're kind of 596 00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:06,240 Speaker 1: inviting a conversation about the area where there is some 597 00:33:06,720 --> 00:33:10,720 Speaker 1: difficulty and like kind of ask for their input on 598 00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:13,840 Speaker 1: whether it might be realistic to make a change, because 599 00:33:13,880 --> 00:33:16,760 Speaker 1: again I have like this is hard because I don't 600 00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:19,920 Speaker 1: know the specifics, and that's okay. I understand why you 601 00:33:19,960 --> 00:33:23,800 Speaker 1: wouldn't want to share them. But for example, I've heard 602 00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:27,720 Speaker 1: of some people getting frustrated with OU pairs getting burned 603 00:33:27,760 --> 00:33:30,560 Speaker 1: out when they're caring for kids at home all day 604 00:33:30,600 --> 00:33:32,360 Speaker 1: by themselves or something, and it's like, well, that is 605 00:33:32,440 --> 00:33:34,719 Speaker 1: really hard, like you know, so you do have to 606 00:33:34,720 --> 00:33:37,520 Speaker 1: just stop and make sure that what you are asking 607 00:33:37,720 --> 00:33:40,920 Speaker 1: is realistic, like would you be able to do that? Yeah, no, 608 00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:44,280 Speaker 1: that's a that's a good point. But I think one 609 00:33:44,320 --> 00:33:46,160 Speaker 1: of the things you know, you said, sit down to 610 00:33:46,200 --> 00:33:48,320 Speaker 1: talk about stuff. I mean, one of the things I 611 00:33:48,360 --> 00:33:53,080 Speaker 1: have taken away from management writing over the years is 612 00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:56,560 Speaker 1: that as much as possible, if things are only in 613 00:33:56,600 --> 00:34:00,240 Speaker 1: a sit down conversation, it becomes this source of anxiety 614 00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:02,080 Speaker 1: for both parties, like, oh my god, why do I 615 00:34:02,080 --> 00:34:04,200 Speaker 1: have to sit down with my boss on Thursday? Like 616 00:34:04,240 --> 00:34:07,120 Speaker 1: what does she want to know? And so as much 617 00:34:07,160 --> 00:34:10,120 Speaker 1: as it can just be normalized like that, you know, 618 00:34:10,520 --> 00:34:13,640 Speaker 1: feedback is feedback, like we're going to talk about everything, 619 00:34:14,560 --> 00:34:17,640 Speaker 1: then then any given bit of it is not that 620 00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:20,960 Speaker 1: fraud a situation. And so if you haven't been in 621 00:34:20,960 --> 00:34:22,760 Speaker 1: that habit, and it kind of sounds like she hasn't, 622 00:34:23,080 --> 00:34:25,759 Speaker 1: then you probably want to start with good stuff like 623 00:34:26,120 --> 00:34:30,080 Speaker 1: just for a week, like make sure you say three 624 00:34:30,080 --> 00:34:33,840 Speaker 1: things every day that you liked, you know, that was great, 625 00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:36,640 Speaker 1: like and just you know, as you're having these conversations, 626 00:34:37,120 --> 00:34:41,440 Speaker 1: do that and then you know, once that's become a habit, 627 00:34:41,560 --> 00:34:44,160 Speaker 1: then you can start working in stuff that like, oh, 628 00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:47,120 Speaker 1: do you think you could try this? Or you know, 629 00:34:47,200 --> 00:34:49,279 Speaker 1: I've had this issue, I wonder what you could do 630 00:34:49,360 --> 00:34:52,960 Speaker 1: about it? And then let as Sarah said, inviting a conversation. 631 00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:57,120 Speaker 1: So it's it's that it becomes more normalized and it's 632 00:34:57,120 --> 00:34:59,320 Speaker 1: not such a big deal because it shouldn't be a 633 00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:01,400 Speaker 1: big deal. I mean, that's part of you know. I mean, 634 00:35:01,440 --> 00:35:03,560 Speaker 1: this person is a physician. I'm sure if you know 635 00:35:03,640 --> 00:35:06,360 Speaker 1: she was doing a procedure with a physician assistant and 636 00:35:06,400 --> 00:35:08,840 Speaker 1: something seemed a little off, she'd probably mention it. It It 637 00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:10,960 Speaker 1: wouldn't be a big deal. They'd work together to fix it. 638 00:35:11,040 --> 00:35:13,279 Speaker 1: Like I mean, it's it can be the exact same thing. 639 00:35:14,080 --> 00:35:18,000 Speaker 1: Love it all right, I'm pretty sure that Celeste and 640 00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:19,720 Speaker 1: I did a Love of the Week. I mean, maybe 641 00:35:19,719 --> 00:35:21,760 Speaker 1: I'll listen to this and be like, whoa wait, we didn't, 642 00:35:21,960 --> 00:35:25,120 Speaker 1: but Sarah, what's yours? Since I was not in that 643 00:35:25,200 --> 00:35:27,400 Speaker 1: conversation and I cannot wait to listen to it. By 644 00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:29,040 Speaker 1: the way, I will add my Level of a Week, 645 00:35:29,040 --> 00:35:31,719 Speaker 1: which is my new Archer and Olive notebook that I'm 646 00:35:31,800 --> 00:35:33,719 Speaker 1: using is a bullet journal that I mentioned in the 647 00:35:33,719 --> 00:35:37,160 Speaker 1: opener because I love that thing awesome. All right, well, 648 00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:39,319 Speaker 1: this has been Best of Both Worlds Episode one point 649 00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:42,400 Speaker 1: fifty two. I've been interviewing Celeste Headley about her new book, 650 00:35:42,520 --> 00:35:44,880 Speaker 1: Do Nothing, and we will be back next week with 651 00:35:44,920 --> 00:35:49,360 Speaker 1: more on making work in life fit together. Thanks for listening. 652 00:35:49,560 --> 00:35:52,640 Speaker 1: You can find me Sarah at the shoebox dot com 653 00:35:52,800 --> 00:35:56,560 Speaker 1: or at the Underscore Shoebox on Instagram, and you can 654 00:35:56,600 --> 00:36:00,839 Speaker 1: find me Laura at Laura vandercam dot com. This has 655 00:36:00,880 --> 00:36:04,200 Speaker 1: been the best of Both Worlds podcasts. Please join us 656 00:36:04,200 --> 00:36:07,600 Speaker 1: next time for more on making work and life work together.