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Speaker 1: We've all heard of every sort of diet there is

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Speaker 1: known to man. You've got keto, You've got fasting, You've

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Speaker 1: got atkins, no fat, no calories, no butter, no faked sugar. Well,

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Speaker 1: it's hard to make sense of it all. But there

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Speaker 1: is one diet you can't forget. It's called the Biblical diet.

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Speaker 1: Now what is that? I'm not sure. I guess you

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Speaker 1: only eat things you read about in the Bible, although

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Speaker 1: I'm sure they don't address diets in the Bible. But

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Speaker 1: how does that relate to murder? You'll find out. NYPD

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Speaker 1: were called to the Greeks families home October thirtieth after

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Speaker 1: a nine one one called just before ten pm. Upon arriving,

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Speaker 1: police found Camary unconscious and unresponsive, with no obvious signs

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Speaker 1: of physical injury. According to police, the child's mother, Carla Griquez,

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Speaker 1: called nine one. The twenty eight year old mother told

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Speaker 1: police she put Camary to sleep and later realized he

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Speaker 1: was unconscious. He was rushed from the family's home on

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Speaker 1: Liberty Avenue to Jamaica Hospital, where he was pronounced dead.

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Speaker 1: A little boy dead. Still, how does that relate to

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Speaker 1: a Biblical diet? Let's introduce an all star panel to

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Speaker 1: break it down and put it back together again. First

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Speaker 1: of all, Melissa Hotmeyer, Prince George County Chief, Special Victims

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Speaker 1: of Family Unit, co founder Right Response Consulting, also No

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Speaker 1: Grey Zone podcast and you can find her at Right

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Speaker 1: Response Consulting dot com. Doctor Angela Arnold, renowned psychiatrists joining

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Speaker 1: us out of the Atlanta jurisdiction. Doctor Michelle Duprie is

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Speaker 1: with US forensic pathologist, former medical examiner, author of Homicide

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Speaker 1: Investigation Field Guide and Investigating Child Abese Field Guide. Also

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Speaker 1: former police detective Dan Scott, former La County share sergeant

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Speaker 1: twenty six years with the Special Victims of Bureau specializing

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Speaker 1: in child abuse. But first to Christie Missouri, Emmy Award

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Speaker 1: winning investigative reporter, Let's just start with a nine one

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Speaker 1: one call. What do we learn from the nine one

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Speaker 1: one call? Why war police? Why was nine one one

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Speaker 1: summoned to the to the home? To start with? Well,

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Speaker 1: because the mom finally found a child unresponsive and cold

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Speaker 1: to the touch. Other family members there they were greatly

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Speaker 1: concerned about the baby. And also, it's my understanding, Christie Missouri,

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Speaker 1: that mommy said when she put him to bed the

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Speaker 1: night before everything was fine. Correct, That is correct. That's

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Speaker 1: what she claims a very different tale when first responders

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Speaker 1: show up on the scene and she's telling a very

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Speaker 1: different tale. Now, guys, I'm trying to figure out how

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Speaker 1: you put a baby to sleep at night and the

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Speaker 1: next morning the baby is d We're talking about seven

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Speaker 1: month old Kamar. You know. Let me go to you, doctor,

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Speaker 1: Michelle Dupree. I'm sure it has happened. How would a

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Speaker 1: child What are possible causes of death CODs of a

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Speaker 1: child that you put them to sleep, they're perfectly fine.

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Speaker 1: You wake up them the next morning, they're cold to

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Speaker 1: the touch and dead. Well, Nancy, you're right. There could

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Speaker 1: be several causes. One, of course, is something we call

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Speaker 1: SIDS or sudden unexplained anth of death syndrome. There's specific

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Speaker 1: guidelines for that, and everything else must be ruled out

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Speaker 1: if the child is sleeping with someone else. Wait a minute,

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Speaker 1: hold on, I don't want to interrupt, but right there,

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Speaker 1: when you said in order to diagnose SID sudden ifi

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Speaker 1: death syndrome, you rule out everything else. So basically SID

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Speaker 1: is a diagnosis by elimination. That's correct. Huh. I don't

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Speaker 1: like that because that doesn't really tell me, it says.

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Speaker 1: That just tells me it wasn't any of the other

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Speaker 1: things you tried. Well, it's like it's like a shoe,

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Speaker 1: doctor Dupree, where you try on all the other shoes

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Speaker 1: and this one doesn't exactly fit, but it's better than

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Speaker 1: the rest, so you go with it. Well, that's why

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Speaker 1: it's sudden unexplained infant death. We don't have another cause

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Speaker 1: of death. I didn't know it was s u I

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Speaker 1: d I thought it was SID SIDS. It's both. There's both,

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Speaker 1: and it's basically the same thing. The new terminology is

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Speaker 1: su IDs. Well, it's new to me. So you're telling

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Speaker 1: me a child and I get it. A child could

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Speaker 1: die of sudden infant death syndrome and it's kind of unexplained,

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Speaker 1: you know, Doctor. Another thing. I can't believe I did this,

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Speaker 1: but I remember traveling with the children now to my

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Speaker 1: parents home, and there was no really good place to

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Speaker 1: set them up when they were infants. So I pulled

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Speaker 1: out a folding bed from a sofa in the front

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Speaker 1: of the home so I wouldn't wake anybody up in

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Speaker 1: the back if they cried, and I put them Doctor Dupree,

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Speaker 1: I'm almost embarrassed to say it. I put them in

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Speaker 1: their car seats, one arms linked from me. I slept

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Speaker 1: right beside them, but they were kind of sitting up.

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Speaker 1: You know, they could, because they were so premature, have

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Speaker 1: tipped their head down and died a positional asphyxia, and

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Speaker 1: I would never have known anything. So that's one way

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Speaker 1: a child could die positional asphyxia if they get wrapped

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Speaker 1: up in their blankets and they're fine, when they go

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Speaker 1: to bed and you wake up, they're dead. Yes, Nancy,

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Speaker 1: that's right, and again said I would be something similar

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Speaker 1: to that. Post sleeping sometimes can cause the same thing

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Speaker 1: when it's unintentional suffocation. There can be many things, and

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Speaker 1: there's a whole back to what I said, back to school,

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Speaker 1: back to sleep, back to sleep, back to sleep, because

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Speaker 1: you want the baby sleeping on its back to avoid

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Speaker 1: sids or positional asphyxia. But you know, generally speaking, though

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Speaker 1: doctor Michelle Dupree, babies don't just die in their sleep.

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Speaker 1: They don't have a heart attack, they don't die of

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Speaker 1: diabetes or high blood pressure in the middle of the night.

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Speaker 1: So it's very rare that a baby should die in

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Speaker 1: their sleep, right exactly, Nancy. In fact, we have a

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Speaker 1: saying that babies and kids do not die unless there

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Speaker 1: is a significant medical history that is documented with some

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Speaker 1: cause of death. So we always do a death investigation.

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Speaker 1: So what more do we know? Take a listen to

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Speaker 1: our friends at crime Online. According to The New York Post,

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Speaker 1: Gerrikas claims Camary was frequently developing thrush, a fungal infection

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Speaker 1: which infants and toddlers are at risk of developing. After

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Speaker 1: Gerrikas says she tried six different types of baby formula.

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Speaker 1: She also says Camary has never been vaccinated against child diseases. No,

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Speaker 1: right there, not vaccinated. Okay, for the rest of the panel,

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Speaker 1: please just jump in when you're ready. But I'm really

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Speaker 1: hammering doctor Michelle Dupree right now, former medical examiner, forensic pathologists,

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Speaker 1: specialties homicide investigations and child to be So, doctor Dupree,

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Speaker 1: I gotta tell you, we went through multiple baby formulas

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Speaker 1: with the twins. Once they started taking formula at about

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Speaker 1: you know, two months, we went through a lot of

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Speaker 1: different formulas before we could find one that would not

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Speaker 1: upset their stomachs. So I don't think that's unusual that

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Speaker 1: she tried six different formulas. But wait, a minute on

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Speaker 1: this vaccination thing. I was one of those moms was

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Speaker 1: freaked out by vaccinations, especially when they bundle them. What

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Speaker 1: does it mean to bundle vaccinations, doctor Dupree? Nancy, it

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Speaker 1: means that she gives several different vaccinations at the same

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Speaker 1: time in the usually in the same shot, and it's

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Speaker 1: very common. It's actually prevents having to stick the child

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Speaker 1: more than once. Oh please, wait, so you're gonna I

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Speaker 1: remember duking it out with the pediatricians and they would

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Speaker 1: bring in more doctors. I just you know, the twins

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Speaker 1: were so tiny. I something seemed wrong with them getting

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Speaker 1: multiple vaccinations at once. Translation, we were back and forth

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Speaker 1: to the doctor about every two to three weeks so

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Speaker 1: they could unbundle them and give the shots one by one.

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Speaker 1: And I know that it may not make sense, but

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Speaker 1: in my mind it made a lot of sense. Crime

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Speaker 1: stories with Nancy Grace, Guys, how does a seven month

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Speaker 1: old little boy end up dead one morning? Cold to

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Speaker 1: the Mommy can't really explain what happened, but we do

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Speaker 1: know she says he was fine when he was put

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Speaker 1: to sleep the night before. But what is this business about? Thrush?

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Speaker 1: Doctor Angela Arnold? Let me go to you because guys

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Speaker 1: psychiatrists like doctor Angela Arnold also are mds. Doctor Angie thrush,

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Speaker 1: I remember hearing about it. I remember the twins being

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Speaker 1: checked for thrush. What is it? Well, thrush is a

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Speaker 1: type of yeast infection in a bay that can that

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Speaker 1: can show up in a baby's mouth. And it's it's

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Speaker 1: typically because their normal flora is not is not acting

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Speaker 1: properly and growing flora and fauna flora being the the

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Speaker 1: plants out in the woods. What do you mean that

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Speaker 1: flora flora is the natural is just the natural bacteria

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Speaker 1: that's in your mouth? Okay. Thrush is a fungal infection.

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Speaker 1: You can get it, you can. It can be in

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Speaker 1: the birth to now as a yeast infection, but it's

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Speaker 1: it's when your other microorganisms that are in your body

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Speaker 1: are out of whack. Okay, and then that's how and

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Speaker 1: then and then and then the thrush starts to overgrow.

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Speaker 1: And let me understand what you're saying. What did you

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Speaker 1: say is out of whack in the body for a

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Speaker 1: baby to get thrush? Oh, the other micro organisms that

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Speaker 1: normally occur that naturally occur in a baby's and why

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Speaker 1: did they not be occurring well, one of the reasons

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Speaker 1: they might not be occurring is because of malnutrition. Okay, guys,

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Speaker 1: I'm just a JD. I'm just a trial lawyer. On

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Speaker 1: our panel today, we've got Melissa Hotmyer, doctor Angie, doctor

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Speaker 1: d Prey, Dan Scott Christie Missouri. Not all of us

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Speaker 1: are mds. But when I hear thrush can be caused

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Speaker 1: by malnutrition, that gets my attention to Melissa Hotmyer, Prince

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Speaker 1: George County, chief of the Special Victims and Family Violence Unit,

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Speaker 1: co founder Right Response Consulting. I mean, I could go

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Speaker 1: on and on forever, Melissa Hoyer about you and all

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Speaker 1: your many, many awesome qualifications. But thrush, when I hear

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Speaker 1: that doesn't concern me. But sometimes, Melissa, do you just

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Speaker 1: look at the whole picture and you get a really

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Speaker 1: bad feeling. So I've got this baby that is cold

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Speaker 1: to the touch in the morning. Okay, can't see anything

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Speaker 1: wrong with him. He's not covered in bruises or anything

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Speaker 1: like that. Mommy says he was fine when he went

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Speaker 1: to sleep. So I would immediately think of SIDS. All

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Speaker 1: those seven months it's a little bit old for SIDS.

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Speaker 1: As from a layman's point of view, I hear of

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Speaker 1: babies not turning over in the middle of the night,

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Speaker 1: not seven months old. But you're right about that, Nancy.

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Speaker 1: But then when I add, thank you, doctor Angie, so

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Speaker 1: it's not just anecdotal. But then Melissa hot Meyer, when

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Speaker 1: I add he keeps having recurring thrush. Okay, still starting

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Speaker 1: to get a little concerned about what do we know

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Speaker 1: about this? And then third Melissa, when I hear mom

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Speaker 1: doesn't want baby vaccinated. Now, listen, there are a lot

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Speaker 1: of very intelligent people in the world that do not

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Speaker 1: agree with vaccinations. And I'm not having the anti vax

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Speaker 1: fight right now. But when you start combining all of

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Speaker 1: this together, in my mind, I'm getting a nefarious gut reaction.

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Speaker 1: Do you ever do that you don't know all the

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Speaker 1: facts that you start getting very suspicious? Oh? Absolutely, And

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Speaker 1: I think when you have a dead seven month old

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Speaker 1: or one that's cool to the touch, you have to

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Speaker 1: get that gut reaction otherwise they're not doing your job correctly.

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Speaker 1: You know, it just doesn't all fit together for me. Melissa. Guys,

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Speaker 1: Melissa Hotmeyer that I'm talking to is a chief of

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Speaker 1: the Special Victims and Family Unit. I've got Dan Scott

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Speaker 1: with me. Former La County sheriff. Now you know he

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Speaker 1: could tell a story or two, Dan Scott, take a

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Speaker 1: listen to this. Carla Griguez says she kept her son

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Speaker 1: Camary on a biblical vegan diet because she didn't want

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Speaker 1: to carry a fat ass child, and he would often

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Speaker 1: be fed fruits and vegetables crushed with boiled potatoes. According

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Speaker 1: to the child's grandmother. Coriguez told The New York Post

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Speaker 1: she believes vegan means everything that's in the Bible. Dan Scott,

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Speaker 1: I just wish I could get my hands around this

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Speaker 1: woman's neck right now. And I usually don't threaten violence.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I've tried. I don't even know how many cases.

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Speaker 1: I don't even know how many jury trials. I don't

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Speaker 1: even know how many guilty Please, I can only estimate.

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Speaker 1: Did I just hear this? Did not want to carry

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Speaker 1: a fat ass child. I've heard your experts and you

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Speaker 1: who mentioned the words suspicious a number of times. That

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Speaker 1: is the key word for a mandated reporter, suspicion. You

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Speaker 1: don't prove abuse, you suspect abuse. How many times has

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Speaker 1: this child been to the pediatrician? How many times has

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Speaker 1: the siblings been None of them picked up on any

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Speaker 1: of this. I want to know, as an investigator how

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Speaker 1: many times Children's Services had been out to that house

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Speaker 1: in the last seven months prior to cold and not breathing.

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Speaker 1: It's too late. Child abuse mandated reporters should if they

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Speaker 1: were seen. I'm assuming, and this is just an assumption

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Speaker 1: that there was some type of doctor carey. Why didn't

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Speaker 1: they pick up on it? All too often I hear

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Speaker 1: doctors and nurses well, I wasn't quite sure, so I

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Speaker 1: didn't want to get them in trouble with Children's Services.

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Speaker 1: All your job is to suspect these things. Thrush. If

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Speaker 1: it's got to do with malnutrition, that's a red flag

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Speaker 1: for child abuse. You know. I'm trying to figure out

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Speaker 1: what Dan's gott is saying is absolutely correct. In our country.

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Speaker 1: There are safety nets, for instance, teachers, even play school,

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Speaker 1: even daycare providers if they notice anything wrong such as

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Speaker 1: bruises or cutting, or suspicious pictures even of I remember

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Speaker 1: I had a child lestation of a little four year

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Speaker 1: old girl and she drew pictures of a man's erect penis.

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Speaker 1: Why would she know that at age four? So that's

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Speaker 1: an indicator, you see. But the daycare provider saw the photo,

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Speaker 1: saw the painting the picture, and brought it to the

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Speaker 1: attention of authorities. School teachers see black eyes and cuts

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Speaker 1: and messy and lice and this and that, and they

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Speaker 1: report it. But what about to Melissa Hotmeyer, a child

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Speaker 1: that is not in daycare, is not in play skill,

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Speaker 1: and is not going to the doctor for the doctor

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Speaker 1: to notice what's wrong. They fall through that safety net,

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Speaker 1: they sure do. Yeah, And it's devastating when that happens

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Speaker 1: because there's nobody keeping eyes on them. The people who

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Speaker 1: are supposed to be protecting them are the ones who

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Speaker 1: are abusing them. This whole biblical diet. First of all,

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Speaker 1: for the mom to jump up and say she did

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Speaker 1: not want to carry a fat ass child her words,

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Speaker 1: not mine, but then says she has him on the

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Speaker 1: biblical diet. To you, Christy, Missouri, what is the biblical diet?

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Speaker 1: Does anybody know? Well, it's her interpretation of the Biblical diet.

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Speaker 1: I mean, for Christians, we all hear about eating the

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Speaker 1: fatted calf, right Oh wait wait wait wait wait wait wait?

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Speaker 1: What Well in the Bible. I try to be a Christian,

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Speaker 1: but I don't recall eating a fatted calf. Wait are

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Speaker 1: you talking about in the Old Testament. I tried my

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Speaker 1: best not to pay any attention to it it scripture,

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Speaker 1: but Carla has changed her tail numerous times with police. Okay,

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Speaker 1: I'm asking you about the Biblical diet. What does anybody?

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Speaker 1: Does anybody know Doctor Angie Arnold, doctor Michelle Dupree, have

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Speaker 1: any of you of the Biblical diet? Okay? It is

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Speaker 1: a quote Bible based health plan. I'm you know, every

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Speaker 1: time I've read a researched the Biblical diet, it starts

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Speaker 1: with talking about what's wrong with all the other diets

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Speaker 1: Keto paleo, lo fat, calorie counting, Mediterranean hole thirty atkins, thhm,

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Speaker 1: what's that South Beach? On and on and on. But

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Speaker 1: apparently the Bible diet is a health plan. It includes

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Speaker 1: olive oil. I know that it includes, as Christie Masserk

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Speaker 1: was saying, nuts and grains. But how does this relate

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Speaker 1: to the death of a seven month old little boy

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Speaker 1: the Biblical diet. Well, we're finding out crime stories with

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Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. As far as I can recall, Melissa Hotmeyer,

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Speaker 1: I remember christ drinking wine, or at least making wine,

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Speaker 1: eating bread. He basically wandered from city to city and

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Speaker 1: eating whatever his host provided for him. As a matter

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Speaker 1: of fact, be sure, he said something to the effect of,

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Speaker 1: don't focus so much about laws regarding what you do,

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Speaker 1: eat what you put in your body. It's what you

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Speaker 1: speak and what you do out of your body. Did

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Speaker 1: the Lord is interested end? Have you ever heard of this?

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Speaker 1: And also Hotmeyer as being a type a child abuse.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's definitely a type of child abuse. You know,

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Speaker 1: we haven't had this type of case, but we've definitely

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Speaker 1: had other cases that are similar. But you know, children

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Speaker 1: are especially babies at this age, are supposed to be

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Speaker 1: getting milk and you know, very very little food at

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Speaker 1: this point seven months. You know, a lot of kids

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Speaker 1: don't start whole, you know, start any food until six months.

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Speaker 1: And putting your child, a baby under the age of one,

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Speaker 1: on a diet is just a level of cruel I

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Speaker 1: can't really imagine. Take a listen to our friends at

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Speaker 1: crime Online. Carla Grika has insisted that her baby wasn't underweight,

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Speaker 1: but her mother Karine told the New or Post the

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Speaker 1: child was small. According to the outlet, Carla Guerricuez said,

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Speaker 1: at the end of the day, Camari was a vegan.

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Speaker 1: She said she's a small person, only a hundred pounds

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Speaker 1: and not a quote fat ass woman who will carry

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Speaker 1: a fat ass child. Karin Griquez also said that Carla

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Speaker 1: Guerriquez was going through something. Yeah, she was going through something.

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Speaker 1: She was going through starving her child. To Dan Scott,

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Speaker 1: former La County Sheriff sergeant twenty six years special victims

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Speaker 1: unit specializing in child abuse, Dan, have you ever seen

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Speaker 1: a child abuse case involving malnutrition starving? To put it simply, yes,

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Speaker 1: it's rare, but it does come up. And normally you

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Speaker 1: mentioned people seeing black eyes, bruises and things like that

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Speaker 1: at a daycare. When you have malnutrition, generally it's going

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Speaker 1: to be picked up by a pediatrician. The average person

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Speaker 1: isn't going to know that. But when you hear statements

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Speaker 1: about carrying a fat as child, somebody in that's going

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Speaker 1: to interview. I want to interview everybody if this is

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Speaker 1: my case, to find out. I can't bring the child back,

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Speaker 1: but what I can do is find out was there

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Speaker 1: a part of the system that failed? Did somebody fail

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Speaker 1: to see something in the professional field, But I also

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Speaker 1: want to know in the family, why didn't somebody call

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Speaker 1: Why didn't somebody report this? Maybe they did. Then you

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Speaker 1: want to look at how many times were children's services

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Speaker 1: out there and at all, if at all, if at all?

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Speaker 1: To Chrissie Missourich, investigative reporter joining us, Chrissie, didn't the

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Speaker 1: mom Camary Gary Kay share a home with her mother

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Speaker 1: and the other children, Yes, so the grandmother was there

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Speaker 1: seeing everything correct. Several family members lived in an upper

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Speaker 1: and loller. What was interesting about this situation at this

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Speaker 1: family was kind of always in a state of flux,

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Speaker 1: moving from neighborhood to neighborhood, So neighbors watching this family

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Speaker 1: interact never really saw this young baby. You know, that's

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Speaker 1: really interesting because I remember the House of Horrors out

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Speaker 1: in California. Let me throw that one to you, doctor

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Speaker 1: Angela Arnold, where the Turpins would take all of these

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Speaker 1: photos of their children. For instance, that I'll be at

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Speaker 1: Disneyland and they'd be like, how many children they have,

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Speaker 1: like seven or eight, and they all have on matching shirts.

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Speaker 1: And then they renewed their vows in Vegas. They had

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Speaker 1: all the children there dressed up in similar outfits and

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Speaker 1: they would post all these family photos online. But the

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Speaker 1: neighbors never saw the children. It wasn't until one teen

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Speaker 1: girl managed to break out of a window and call

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Speaker 1: nine one one. And there were children that were adult

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Speaker 1: age that weighed eighty ninety pounds. They had been chained

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Speaker 1: to the bed and starved, and none of the neighbors

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Speaker 1: ever saw them. And of course they're being home schooled,

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Speaker 1: and the school district never checked in on them at all,

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Speaker 1: so they also fell through the safety net. I a

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Speaker 1: somebody didn't do their job. And I think what Dan

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Speaker 1: Scott is saying, it's absolutely correct. The neighbors, oh it

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Speaker 1: was Christy Missourich. Our investigative reporters said the neighbors, in

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Speaker 1: their various neighbors never saw the children, never saw this child.

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Speaker 1: You know, Nancy, I've been giving this a lot of thought.

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Speaker 1: Why do we keep hearing these same stories over and

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Speaker 1: over again? And I think that we need to get

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Speaker 1: to a point where if there is if there is

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Speaker 1: a red flag by any if someone sees a red

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Speaker 1: flag Grandma, a red flag, if on the one visit

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Speaker 1: to the pediatrician, there is a red flag scene, it

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Speaker 1: needs to be reported and the person who reports it

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Speaker 1: needs to feel like they're safe in that reporting and

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Speaker 1: that something's actually going to get done about it. No

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Speaker 1: she ever even took the baby to the doctor, which

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Speaker 1: is very disturbing to me because I can't really think

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Speaker 1: of a way to police that and enforce parents taking

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Speaker 1: their children to the doctor as they're growing. I mean, Nancy.

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Speaker 1: Typically the pediatrician sees the baby when it's born in

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Speaker 1: the hospital and they make an appointment for that baby

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Speaker 1: after and if you don't go to that appointment, nothing happens,

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Speaker 1: Doctor Angie, nothing happens. Well, no one is policing it.

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Speaker 1: And I get it because most parents want to take

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Speaker 1: their children to the doctor. Guys, after all of this,

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Speaker 1: what do we find out about cod cause of death?

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Speaker 1: Take a listen to our friends at crime Online. NYPD

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Speaker 1: said the case was ruled a homis signed by the

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Speaker 1: New York Medical Examiner's Office and that Camery died from

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Speaker 1: complications to malnutrition. According to the New York Daily News,

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Speaker 1: doctor said the baby has no food in his stomach,

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Speaker 1: and police noted that he appeared underweight, no food in

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Speaker 1: his stomach and appeared underweight. Do doctor Michelle Dupree, former

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Speaker 1: pathology forensic pathologists, former medical examiner. When you look at

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Speaker 1: a child, what are the signs that COD is malnutrition.

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Speaker 1: When Nancy, we look at the underall development of a

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Speaker 1: child for their age. Certainly underweight is one of them.

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Speaker 1: We look at the skin, whether it's wrinkled out because

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Speaker 1: there's no muscle masks there. We look for things if

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Speaker 1: the child is alive, we look for things like retractions

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Speaker 1: in the neck and chest muscles when they're breathing. We

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Speaker 1: also none of the One of the biggest things about

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Speaker 1: malnutrition and children is the lack of vitamin B twelve.

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Speaker 1: This is for brain development. Lack of that can cause

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Speaker 1: permanent brain damage and subsequently death. When you said something

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Speaker 1: about the skin being wrinkled, would you repeat that place. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: Oftentimes the skin is very wrinkled because there are there's

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Speaker 1: no muscle math underneath the skin, and so basically the

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Speaker 1: child is starved to death and they the body tends

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Speaker 1: to eat the muscle what little there is, and so

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Speaker 1: the skin which has been covering the body has been

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Speaker 1: wrinkled because there's nothing left underneath it. So the COD

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Speaker 1: cause of death is malnutrition for this little seven month

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Speaker 1: old baby boy, Camary Greek, who was on the quote

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Speaker 1: biblical diet. So what does mommy do take a listen

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Speaker 1: to this Camary Gerrikaz was just seven months old when

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Speaker 1: he died. According to NYPD, he was found unconscious when

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Speaker 1: police responded to a nine one one call, and later

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Speaker 1: died at the hospital. A day later, a caseworker showed

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Speaker 1: up to take custody of Greeka's two year old daughter,

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Speaker 1: but the mother and child weren't there. Where were they? Hey? Listen?

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Speaker 1: Four days later, Garriquez and her daughter were tracked down

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Speaker 1: to Hackensack, New Jersey, at a travel lodge off Root

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Speaker 1: forty six after her cell phone was picked there. Police

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Speaker 1: said the two year old was found in good health

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Speaker 1: and that the child is now in custody of city

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Speaker 1: child welfare officials. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, we

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Speaker 1: are talking about the death of a little boy just

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Speaker 1: seven months old. Mary Gary Kay. At first I thought

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Speaker 1: it maybe he died of sids. Even at seven months

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Speaker 1: there were no visible signs of injury, no blood, no bruises,

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Speaker 1: no scrapes, no scratches. It was only when the medical

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Speaker 1: examiner determined he died of malnutrition. Case workers are sent

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Speaker 1: to the home to get the two year old little

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Speaker 1: girl away, and mommy is gone. You know. County chief

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Speaker 1: Special Victims and Family Violence Unit co founder Right Response Consulting, Melissa,

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Speaker 1: the law has changed and a judge can no longer

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Speaker 1: in many jurisdictions instruct a jury as to flight being

424
00:28:22,320 --> 00:28:26,960
Speaker 1: in disha of guilt. In other words, when you see

425
00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:30,960
Speaker 1: a stay patrol pull up behind him, Melissa, I doubt

426
00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:34,119
Speaker 1: pretty much. You floora to one hundred and ten mph.

427
00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:37,480
Speaker 1: He might break a little bit. Why because you're not

428
00:28:37,520 --> 00:28:41,280
Speaker 1: afraid of they search your trunk. You don't care. That

429
00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:45,320
Speaker 1: is flight, And it is still arguable to a jury

430
00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:51,160
Speaker 1: by the prosecution that flight is in disha of fake passports,

431
00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:55,320
Speaker 1: a bag of viagra, hair died, and a lot of

432
00:28:55,360 --> 00:28:59,160
Speaker 1: cash and camping equipment. He was on the run. He

433
00:28:59,360 --> 00:29:02,040
Speaker 1: was leaving before he could get caught charged with murder.

434
00:29:02,480 --> 00:29:07,240
Speaker 1: That's flight, and many juries believe that is proof of guilt.

435
00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:12,080
Speaker 1: So after the cod is announced of malnutrition, mommy actually

436
00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:15,720
Speaker 1: goes on the run with her children. Yeah, I mean

437
00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:18,640
Speaker 1: it shows a definite consciousness of guilt. I think it's

438
00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:21,800
Speaker 1: an important piece of evidence, not only for the investigation,

439
00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:26,280
Speaker 1: but for the prosecution later to show that this wasn't accidental,

440
00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:29,280
Speaker 1: that this wasn't because she didn't know how to raise children.

441
00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:33,600
Speaker 1: She has children. This is because she made she made

442
00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:38,000
Speaker 1: a decision, and she was premeditated in that decision. Back

443
00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:42,920
Speaker 1: to Christy, Missouri, Emmy Award winning investigative reporter, Christie. How

444
00:29:43,040 --> 00:29:47,880
Speaker 1: many children did this woman have? Foreign total? Okay, a

445
00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:51,720
Speaker 1: dead baby, yeah, two year old that's now in the

446
00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:56,040
Speaker 1: custody of Child Protective Services, right, But previous to all

447
00:29:56,080 --> 00:29:59,960
Speaker 1: of this, two other children were removed from her home

448
00:30:00,760 --> 00:30:05,520
Speaker 1: by their biological father and his complaints. So she was

449
00:30:05,560 --> 00:30:09,000
Speaker 1: on the radar for sure. So she's got a track record.

450
00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:13,280
Speaker 1: The husband, the former husband, took their two children away.

451
00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:17,560
Speaker 1: You know, it's interesting, out of these children, she picks

452
00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:22,680
Speaker 1: one child to starve dead. But this whole biblical diet,

453
00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:26,640
Speaker 1: putting your baby on a diet, this is not the

454
00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:28,960
Speaker 1: first time it's happened. Take a listen to our friend

455
00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:32,960
Speaker 1: Katie Johnson at CBS Miami. Two parents in Cape Coral

456
00:30:33,040 --> 00:30:35,640
Speaker 1: are charged with the death of their eighteen month old son.

457
00:30:35,840 --> 00:30:38,320
Speaker 1: The baby wage just seventeen pounds at the time of

458
00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:41,680
Speaker 1: his death. Experts say seventeen pounds is what a seven

459
00:30:41,680 --> 00:30:44,040
Speaker 1: month old should weigh, not a baby who's a year

460
00:30:44,080 --> 00:30:46,760
Speaker 1: and a half old. A Lee County grand jury indicted

461
00:30:46,840 --> 00:30:49,880
Speaker 1: Ryan Patrick O'Leary and Sheila O'Leary Wednesday on charges a

462
00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:54,800
Speaker 1: first degree murder, aggravated child abuse, aggravated manslaughter, child abuse,

463
00:30:55,000 --> 00:30:58,360
Speaker 1: and two counts of child neglect. According to a police report,

464
00:30:58,400 --> 00:31:01,560
Speaker 1: the mother called nine one Timber when she noticed her

465
00:31:01,560 --> 00:31:04,680
Speaker 1: son was not breathing and felt cold. According to Newspress,

466
00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:08,080
Speaker 1: the baby was dead when paramedics arrived. The state attorney

467
00:31:08,160 --> 00:31:11,160
Speaker 1: for the case says the indictments also include three other

468
00:31:11,320 --> 00:31:15,400
Speaker 1: children who suffered child abuse and extreme neglect. They are

469
00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:19,520
Speaker 1: three years old, five years old, and eleven years old. Well,

470
00:31:19,560 --> 00:31:21,280
Speaker 1: that's not the end of that story. Take a listen

471
00:31:21,280 --> 00:31:24,840
Speaker 1: to NBC two. We're also learning the three other children

472
00:31:24,840 --> 00:31:27,760
Speaker 1: in the home we're only allowed to eat raw fruits

473
00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:32,000
Speaker 1: and vegetables, and two of them were severely underweight. Sheila

474
00:31:32,080 --> 00:31:34,720
Speaker 1: and Ryan did admit to police they thought something was

475
00:31:34,760 --> 00:31:38,480
Speaker 1: wrong with her baby weeks before, but didn't call for help.

476
00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:42,080
Speaker 1: In this nine page report just obtained by NBC two,

477
00:31:42,120 --> 00:31:45,480
Speaker 1: Sheila tells police the baby became sick six months ago

478
00:31:45,840 --> 00:31:48,760
Speaker 1: and was throwing up and lost weight about a week

479
00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:51,680
Speaker 1: before the baby died. Sheila says they're eighteen month old

480
00:31:51,760 --> 00:31:56,680
Speaker 1: stopped eating and would only breastfeed occasionally. The medical examiner

481
00:31:56,720 --> 00:32:02,080
Speaker 1: says the baby was extremely malnourished, hydrated, and feet were swollen.

482
00:32:02,440 --> 00:32:04,800
Speaker 1: Sheila says the baby has never been to the doctor

483
00:32:04,880 --> 00:32:08,640
Speaker 1: and was born inside their home. Cape Coral Police also

484
00:32:08,760 --> 00:32:13,440
Speaker 1: say two other children were also extremely underweight and one

485
00:32:13,440 --> 00:32:16,600
Speaker 1: of their children's teeth were rotting. Sheila told police the

486
00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:19,320
Speaker 1: family would sleep in the living room with one child

487
00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:23,120
Speaker 1: on a hammock and another on a dogbed. Are we

488
00:32:23,360 --> 00:32:28,720
Speaker 1: so pc, so politically correct that we didn't want to

489
00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:35,960
Speaker 1: investigate or stop parents from their own brand of religion

490
00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:41,240
Speaker 1: and find out it amounts to child abuse ending in death.

491
00:32:42,440 --> 00:32:45,920
Speaker 1: Take a listen to Rachel Lloyd Fox four. Sheila oh

492
00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:48,400
Speaker 1: Laries and Serny's told me all the kids living in

493
00:32:48,400 --> 00:32:51,320
Speaker 1: this home were healthy. And now I did ask him

494
00:32:51,320 --> 00:32:54,320
Speaker 1: about the claims of malnourishment, and he says, oh Larry

495
00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:57,920
Speaker 1: actually breastfed her son just a few hours before he died,

496
00:32:58,120 --> 00:33:01,280
Speaker 1: so he doesn't think malnutrition was the cause of death. Now.

497
00:33:01,320 --> 00:33:05,280
Speaker 1: Sheila O'Leary and her husband Ryan faced a manslaughter charge

498
00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:08,800
Speaker 1: after their baby died here back in September. They turned

499
00:33:08,800 --> 00:33:13,080
Speaker 1: themselves in last night after the medical examiner revealed malnutrition

500
00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:16,520
Speaker 1: caused the baby's death. O'Leary's attorney, John Muska, told me

501
00:33:16,560 --> 00:33:19,760
Speaker 1: on Skye today that his client was so religious that

502
00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:21,920
Speaker 1: she did not allow any of her four kids to

503
00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:25,280
Speaker 1: watch television. He also says she's vegan but fed her

504
00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:28,520
Speaker 1: children balanced mills. But he did say there were health

505
00:33:28,520 --> 00:33:33,960
Speaker 1: concerns regarding the toddler before he died. The child had

506
00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:38,920
Speaker 1: been sick six months prior and had not fully recuperated.

507
00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:42,320
Speaker 1: The child had started eating better, and then the child

508
00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:46,760
Speaker 1: began teething, and the mother was concerned, very concerned that

509
00:33:46,760 --> 00:33:50,320
Speaker 1: that was causing him to not eat as well. So

510
00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:53,440
Speaker 1: concerning never was taken to the doctor, to doctor Angela

511
00:33:53,560 --> 00:33:57,320
Speaker 1: Arnold Psychiatrists joining us out of the Atlanta jurisdiction. How

512
00:33:57,360 --> 00:34:00,680
Speaker 1: do people get so wrapped up in their religion they

513
00:34:00,680 --> 00:34:07,280
Speaker 1: can't see their child is dying? Well, this is this

514
00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:12,880
Speaker 1: is called hyper religiosity, okay. And and and there's a

515
00:34:13,080 --> 00:34:15,799
Speaker 1: there's a mental health component to this. I mean it's

516
00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:19,400
Speaker 1: people can get so into this that they become psychotic

517
00:34:19,480 --> 00:34:24,640
Speaker 1: about this. Nancy and you know, you know what bothers me. Okay, Yes,

518
00:34:24,719 --> 00:34:26,720
Speaker 1: I hear that she's done this to these other children.

519
00:34:27,560 --> 00:34:30,040
Speaker 1: She has a baby. I have no idea what kind

520
00:34:30,040 --> 00:34:32,680
Speaker 1: of prenatal cares she got while she was pregnant with

521
00:34:32,719 --> 00:34:35,560
Speaker 1: this child. I don't know where her mind was while

522
00:34:35,600 --> 00:34:37,719
Speaker 1: she was pregnant with the baby, right, and now the

523
00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:41,960
Speaker 1: baby comes onto the she's she's probably hyper religious. There's

524
00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:45,160
Speaker 1: a part of her. I don't believe it's the whole thing,

525
00:34:45,320 --> 00:34:48,239
Speaker 1: but there's a part of her that believes. The part

526
00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:52,840
Speaker 1: that's bothering me is that she wants this skinny baby. Okay, okay,

527
00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:56,200
Speaker 1: but then she decides to feed it this this biblical diet.

528
00:34:56,880 --> 00:35:00,400
Speaker 1: So she's got some hyper religiosity going on because she herself.

529
00:35:01,280 --> 00:35:04,840
Speaker 1: Is that real? Or did she not want a quote

530
00:35:04,960 --> 00:35:07,319
Speaker 1: fat ass baby and she did not want to be

531
00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:10,759
Speaker 1: a fat ass mom? Her words, not mine. You just

532
00:35:10,800 --> 00:35:14,120
Speaker 1: heard about the aleries, Well what about the welches? Listen

533
00:35:14,160 --> 00:35:19,799
Speaker 1: to this? How did you find the jail? About an

534
00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:23,279
Speaker 1: hour and a half, I um waiting. I called my

535
00:35:23,360 --> 00:35:27,160
Speaker 1: lawyer thing to ask, you know what I have to do,

536
00:35:27,880 --> 00:35:32,560
Speaker 1: and they said wait here to call you know the

537
00:35:32,680 --> 00:35:35,680
Speaker 1: belief and get that going. Basically, you got to play

538
00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:41,960
Speaker 1: right here, So I just I would be waiting unequal

539
00:35:42,040 --> 00:35:49,640
Speaker 1: comfortable child an hour a yeah, and called your lawyer. Yeah,

540
00:35:51,560 --> 00:35:54,200
Speaker 1: I'm so glad they got that on tape. Unless his

541
00:35:54,520 --> 00:35:58,680
Speaker 1: doctor was a pediatrician in the emergency room. Why are

542
00:35:58,719 --> 00:36:02,919
Speaker 1: you calling the lawyer? Why your child is dying? Talk

543
00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:06,040
Speaker 1: about proof of guilt. Well, here's more from Sean Welsh's

544
00:36:06,120 --> 00:36:09,000
Speaker 1: nine one one Call who starred his child Dad listen

545
00:36:12,400 --> 00:36:21,680
Speaker 1: with the child. Oh la night, um, well here about

546
00:36:21,840 --> 00:36:28,759
Speaker 1: three pm he goes the bet and you know that

547
00:36:29,040 --> 00:36:32,200
Speaker 1: was that? Wait a minute, he didn't see his child alive,

548
00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:37,560
Speaker 1: says three pm the day before? What okay? It goes on.

549
00:36:38,280 --> 00:36:40,919
Speaker 1: Take a listen to Ken colk or Wood TV eight

550
00:36:41,040 --> 00:36:44,560
Speaker 1: Grand Rapids. Listen. He says CPS got called on him

551
00:36:44,600 --> 00:36:47,799
Speaker 1: when he had first refused to get his oldest daughter vaccinated,

552
00:36:48,080 --> 00:36:50,360
Speaker 1: and that he did not get the shots for his

553
00:36:50,520 --> 00:36:53,600
Speaker 1: other two kids, including Mary. It didn't seem smart to

554
00:36:53,680 --> 00:36:58,520
Speaker 1: me that you would be saving people who weren't the fittest.

555
00:36:59,200 --> 00:37:01,520
Speaker 1: Resolution believe in the survival of the fittest. Well, then

556
00:37:01,560 --> 00:37:03,680
Speaker 1: why are we vaccinating everybody? Shouldn't we just let the

557
00:37:03,719 --> 00:37:07,399
Speaker 1: week die off and let the strong survive. He also

558
00:37:07,560 --> 00:37:10,960
Speaker 1: spoke against worldly things and I would love to see

559
00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:15,360
Speaker 1: a commune of Christian Disciples living off the grids somewhere

560
00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:19,759
Speaker 1: and just living free in The couple called nine one

561
00:37:19,880 --> 00:37:23,000
Speaker 1: one on Thursday after finding their baby unresponsive at their

562
00:37:23,040 --> 00:37:26,000
Speaker 1: home on al Gooma Avenue and soul In Township. An

563
00:37:26,040 --> 00:37:30,600
Speaker 1: autopsy found the baby eyed of malnutrition and dehydration. Today,

564
00:37:30,920 --> 00:37:34,080
Speaker 1: the judge ordered them to stay in jail without bond.

565
00:37:35,000 --> 00:37:40,319
Speaker 1: That's why you can't live free, because some people like him,

566
00:37:41,200 --> 00:37:46,040
Speaker 1: Seth Welch, kill their children. And there's more. Listen. Seth

567
00:37:46,120 --> 00:37:49,560
Speaker 1: Welch's wife, Tatiana Fusari, was in tears. A couple set

568
00:37:49,680 --> 00:37:52,960
Speaker 1: side by side for their video arraignment. Today. You're both

569
00:37:53,160 --> 00:37:57,040
Speaker 1: charged with what they call felony murder. In court documents,

570
00:37:57,080 --> 00:37:59,279
Speaker 1: detectives say the couple told them they were aware of

571
00:37:59,320 --> 00:38:02,080
Speaker 1: their daughters skinny appearance and low wait for at least

572
00:38:02,120 --> 00:38:04,839
Speaker 1: a month. The wife told detectives they did not get

573
00:38:04,920 --> 00:38:08,240
Speaker 1: medical help over fear of CPS taking away their three kids,

574
00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:12,759
Speaker 1: over distrust of medicine, and because of religious beliefs. All

575
00:38:12,840 --> 00:38:15,960
Speaker 1: have been topics of some of her husband's rambling videos

576
00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:20,160
Speaker 1: on Facebook, and of course those videos become states Exhibit

577
00:38:20,280 --> 00:38:25,800
Speaker 1: number one. You know it happens over and over and over. Somehow,

578
00:38:26,320 --> 00:38:32,040
Speaker 1: some quiet religion is tied into non vaccination, is tied

579
00:38:32,200 --> 00:38:37,440
Speaker 1: into biblical diets, and religion ends in a dead baby.

580
00:38:39,280 --> 00:38:43,799
Speaker 1: We wait as justice unfolds, but I do not want

581
00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:48,080
Speaker 1: to see this case plut out cheap on voluntary manslaughter

582
00:38:48,200 --> 00:38:52,280
Speaker 1: or child neglect. This is a murder of a seven

583
00:38:52,360 --> 00:38:55,359
Speaker 1: month old little boy. Goodbye friend,