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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind from how Stuff

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Speaker 1: Works dot com. Hey are you welcome to Stuff to

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Speaker 1: Blow your Mind? My name is Robert Lamb and Julie Douglas. Julie,

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Speaker 1: what did your history with horror movies and dating? Horror

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Speaker 1: movies and relationships? So it goes way back because I

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Speaker 1: remember my brother and I staying up late and watching

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Speaker 1: the Jack the Ripper and I'm like six maybe, and uh,

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Speaker 1: it made a huge impression on both of us. And

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Speaker 1: I remember, even though he was older, he was like,

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Speaker 1: you gotta walk me down the hall, you gotta look

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Speaker 1: behind the shower curtain. And so I began to really

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Speaker 1: have that feeling like something was out there lurking. But

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Speaker 1: I gotta say, in terms of dating, it wasn't like

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Speaker 1: a you know, a fifties drive in. I wasn't like, oh,

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Speaker 1: let's go watch something. It wasn't like the beginning of

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Speaker 1: the Thriller video, which I was like, oh it's scary

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Speaker 1: hat here. Well. Um, Interestingly enough, I anytime my wife

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Speaker 1: and I are trying to determine how long we've known

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Speaker 1: each other, we have to look up the Saw movies

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Speaker 1: on on Internet movie database. Um not because the Saw

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Speaker 1: movies are particularly near and dear to our heart. Um,

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Speaker 1: you know, the first one was okay in some respects,

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Speaker 1: but it's you know, it's not something I cherished. But

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Speaker 1: we shortly after we met each other, we went and

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Speaker 1: saw the first Saw movie in the theater, so we

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Speaker 1: know that if we can determine for a while, they

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Speaker 1: were putting out one a year, so we knew that

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Speaker 1: we could see which which Saw a movie they were on,

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Speaker 1: and that would tell us how long we've known each other.

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Speaker 1: But now we have to do a little math. But

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Speaker 1: we have to find that starting point by answering the

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Speaker 1: question when did the first Saw movie come out? Wow?

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Speaker 1: So that just shows I think it's very reflective of

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Speaker 1: your deep history with horror movies and that genre in general,

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Speaker 1: because my husband and I would probably look at the

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Speaker 1: Coen Brothers movies and be like, Okay, which one was

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Speaker 1: the one that we saw together but didn't know it's

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Speaker 1: at the beginning of the relationship. But you yes, that

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Speaker 1: vast history of the genre. Well, even though I you know,

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Speaker 1: I certainly hold the Cohen Brothers films far above most

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Speaker 1: bits of horror that I've seen, But for some reason,

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Speaker 1: a horror movie that I don't even particularly like all

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Speaker 1: that much is the signifier. But but you know, from

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Speaker 1: an early age, I remember being hit over the head

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Speaker 1: with that trope though of if you're going on a date,

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Speaker 1: what do you do? You take the person to a movie,

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Speaker 1: and and generally it needs to be a horror movie

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Speaker 1: because you saw this. You see this in films. You

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Speaker 1: see this. I horror movies as well, especially the older

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Speaker 1: ones that would come on, you know, on TV in

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Speaker 1: the middle of a Saturday. You'd see these old films

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Speaker 1: which would show uh, people in the nineteen fifties and

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Speaker 1: sixties going to the drive in, right, going on dates

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Speaker 1: and seeing a horror movie. Yeah, I mean, you're right.

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Speaker 1: This is something that has actually sort of woven into

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Speaker 1: our cultural fabric and it's a rite of passage in

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Speaker 1: a way. And so I love that you guys that

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Speaker 1: you and your wife's first date was a horror flame,

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Speaker 1: because we're gonna talk about the ways in which it

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Speaker 1: might influence our amorous feelings for others out there. Yes,

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Speaker 1: and leading to the big question, does this actually work

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Speaker 1: as an aphrodisiac? Does the haunted house actually empty into

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Speaker 1: the bedroom? Uh, etcetera. So so we're gonna back up

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Speaker 1: just a little bit and and talk about the effects

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Speaker 1: of fear on the body, on the mind, because at

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Speaker 1: every basic level, Uh, this should come into no surprise

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Speaker 1: to anyone. We did not evolve to watch horror movies.

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Speaker 1: Horror mos, we didn't. We we evolved to deal with

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Speaker 1: frightening and or dangerous stimulation. But the horror movie in

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Speaker 1: many cases stands as an example, as an example of

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Speaker 1: supernormal stimuli, and and it's also a simulation. So we

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Speaker 1: we have this unreal experience with fear that plays on

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Speaker 1: our minds and on our bodies in the same way

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Speaker 1: that actual lethal threats to do. Right. So you have

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Speaker 1: a tiger, which is an actual threat and at one

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Speaker 1: point when humans were part of the food chain, would

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Speaker 1: have been a real problem, right, And we have bodies

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Speaker 1: that can respond to that. On the other hand, we

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Speaker 1: have the paper tigers of our mind, which come to

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Speaker 1: life in the form of movies, and sometimes in mind

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Speaker 1: is like, hey, I can't distinguish between the two. So

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Speaker 1: we should talk about what's happening in the mind. And

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Speaker 1: we'll also get to who this might be affecting the most.

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Speaker 1: All right, So let's just let's just run through what happens.

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Speaker 1: You're in the You're in the movie movie theater. You're

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Speaker 1: and and therefore you are in the movie in a sense,

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Speaker 1: you're immersing yourself in the experience. You're you're watching these

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Speaker 1: fearful sights, you're hearing fearful things. Um, maybe you're spelling

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Speaker 1: something fearful, depends on what kind of gimmick the the

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Speaker 1: theater is throwing at you. But for the most part,

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Speaker 1: we're talking about your ears and your eyes. So horror

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Speaker 1: is running into your ears and your eyes to an

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Speaker 1: almond shaped clump of neurons called the amygdala. There is

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Speaker 1: located front and center in the brain, and it's vital

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Speaker 1: to instantaneous emotional processing, especially surprisingly enough, love and pleasure.

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Speaker 1: Uh So we've we've conducted in the past spring experiments

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Speaker 1: on rats that have shown that damaging the amigola interferes

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Speaker 1: with their capacity to feel fear as well. And this

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Speaker 1: suggests an overlap between these seemingly opposite emotions of pleasure

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Speaker 1: and fright. And we've touched on this before. Um and

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Speaker 1: and when we see this kind of dual purposing a

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Speaker 1: lot because because ultimately with the brain, uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: some some cases you can point to a certain region

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Speaker 1: of the brain to say, well, this is this lines

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Speaker 1: up with this. But in many cases we see double duty.

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Speaker 1: You see that that the different areas are involved in

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Speaker 1: the processing of different different feelings, etcetera. So it shouldn't

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Speaker 1: come as any surprise that we see, um, we see

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Speaker 1: love and pleasure, we see fear and tear wound up

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Speaker 1: in the same mechanisms. Yeah, we talked before about how

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Speaker 1: the amingela processes pain, emotional pain and physical pain, and

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Speaker 1: that the two are just so bound up together. So

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Speaker 1: again there's there's no big surprise here that there's an

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Speaker 1: overlap and pain and pleasure as well. So if you

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Speaker 1: think about Freddie emerging from behind the door, or that

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Speaker 1: chainsaw getting closer and closer to your neck, you think

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Speaker 1: about your magdala getting all juiced up, unleashing a brain

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Speaker 1: embody energizing cocktail of hormones energizing. Remember that you know,

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Speaker 1: and while all this is happening, you also have your

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Speaker 1: prefrontal cortex getting in on the game and saying it's okay,

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Speaker 1: it is just a movie. And the result of that

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Speaker 1: is a just kind of wave of pleasure because you

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Speaker 1: know that you're in this domain where you're not actually

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Speaker 1: going to get hurt, and yet you're you have all

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Speaker 1: those energizing hormones and chemicals flowing through you. Yeah. All

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Speaker 1: in about three seconds, You're amgala is is unleashing this

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Speaker 1: this hormone cocktail. UH is prompting an already already busy

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Speaker 1: adrenal glands to turn out cortisol, the stress hormone. High

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Speaker 1: levels of cortisol can't impede insulin, causing a rising blood

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Speaker 1: sugar a little extra fuel if case you need to

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Speaker 1: punch something in the face or run away in the hills,

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Speaker 1: You're you're gonna you know, breathing faster. You're taking in

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Speaker 1: more oxygen. That way, your heart is racing to get

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Speaker 1: that oxygen into your muscles. UH. Your your appetite stalls

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Speaker 1: because you know the energy your body would use for

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Speaker 1: digestion is diverted towards getting away from the mass maniac

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Speaker 1: UH in your mind, if not in real life, You're

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Speaker 1: you're potentially starting to sweat. Pupils are dilating, and the

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Speaker 1: car the cortisol has saturated your blood stream at this

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Speaker 1: point and feeds back into the amgala to boost the

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Speaker 1: perception of danger. UH. So in this way, you know,

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Speaker 1: reinforcing memory for the of the initial fright sittings may

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Speaker 1: end up actually feeling a little jumpy afterwards. So anyway,

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Speaker 1: all this is hitting within three seconds, which which really

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Speaker 1: makes you look at the horror movie or any kind

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Speaker 1: of artificial scare in a way. It's it's kind of

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Speaker 1: like a drug. It's this artificial stimuli we take in

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Speaker 1: and it and it causes these these physical responses. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and one of the more counterintuitive findings in the science

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Speaker 1: of fear is that the stronger the negative emotions we're

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Speaker 1: talking about, like anxiety and worry and fear, um, the

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Speaker 1: more the person will enjoy that movie, that bit of

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Speaker 1: horror in front of them. And that's where you see

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Speaker 1: that the distress and delight really are interconnected because it

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Speaker 1: is intrinsically a cathartic moment for the person. And another

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Speaker 1: big thing to point out here is that within five

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Speaker 1: seconds of of of bringing in this fearful stimuli, your

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Speaker 1: nerve cells start to release endorphins to combat the injuries

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Speaker 1: that you have probably sustained from the the act building

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Speaker 1: maniac on the screen, and so your brain is also

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Speaker 1: releasing dopamine. The neurotransmitter best known for giving you that

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Speaker 1: feel good rush. Uh and also some property a neurotransmitter

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Speaker 1: that we bring up a lot on the podcast because

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Speaker 1: it's one of those, uh, those those key substances that

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Speaker 1: plays a role in so many different emotional responses to

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Speaker 1: the world. Yea, and that reminds me to you have

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Speaker 1: mirror neurons in on the game as well. We've talked

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Speaker 1: about that before, the mirror neurons that are essentially aping

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Speaker 1: what they see in front of us in our brains.

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Speaker 1: So I always think about this with a clockwork orange

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Speaker 1: that the moment in which his eyes are being peeled back,

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Speaker 1: I will instinctively, you know, cover my eye and try

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Speaker 1: to prevent it because it feels like it's happening to me. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I mean, even if it's a bad harmard with poorly

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Speaker 1: defined characters, we can't help but invest a little of

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Speaker 1: ourselves in that character. And then all the more so

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Speaker 1: if they actually bothered to to to to develop the

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Speaker 1: character and or have somebody you know, competent play that

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Speaker 1: character and bring them to life on the screen. And uh.

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Speaker 1: And the and the eye thing is interesting too to

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Speaker 1: note because you see a film that just has injuries

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Speaker 1: that consists of say, arms gett chopped offs and its

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Speaker 1: getting chopped off. I mean, that kind of gore can

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Speaker 1: can certainly have an effect, but so often it's those

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Speaker 1: little moments that make the most sense to us and

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Speaker 1: touches the most. The character uh scraping their their hand

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Speaker 1: or or you know, something jabs into their side or

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Speaker 1: they step on some glass. Those little injuries that are

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Speaker 1: far more relatable because for the most part, you and

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Speaker 1: I cannot relate to an individual getting their arms chopped off,

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Speaker 1: their head chopped off. It's uh, you know, it's it's

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Speaker 1: a real world injury, but it's not something that we

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Speaker 1: can say, it's not necessarily WinCE worthy. But it's those

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Speaker 1: little injuries that we can relate to, and those and

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Speaker 1: when the more we relate to what's going on in

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Speaker 1: the screen, the more we can immerse ourselves and what's happening. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's why the idea of something like saying needle going

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Speaker 1: into your eye is so horrific because all of us

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Speaker 1: have probably at one point or another hat and needle

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Speaker 1: pierce or skin, so we are familiar with that or

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Speaker 1: even poke in the eyes. So like the the immediate

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Speaker 1: danger to the eye is not something that's beyond the scope. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and you pair that with a vulnerability of the eye,

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Speaker 1: and it just becomes like this terrible thing that you

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Speaker 1: can't even imagine, but you can't imagine. So there you go.

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Speaker 1: That's our next science on the web. We'll just deal

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Speaker 1: with one only has clips from horror movies in which

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Speaker 1: injuries are done to eyes. I know, if you guys

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Speaker 1: thought that your wax footage about what looked like to

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Speaker 1: be like a steak of croissant being pulled out of

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Speaker 1: a ear was terrible, then you know, you just imagine

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Speaker 1: this next video. Who is the really artsy filmmaker who

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Speaker 1: did the scene with the razor blade in the eye

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Speaker 1: that was it was? Ah, I don't know, but did

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Speaker 1: you see I just so just to summarize again, do

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Speaker 1: you can think of the horror movie experience or even

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Speaker 1: the haunted attraction experience as a drug. So bear that

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Speaker 1: in mind when we're talking about um people on a

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Speaker 1: date partaking of the horror movie. If you're one person

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Speaker 1: asking another person out on a date to a horror movie,

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Speaker 1: you're basically saying, hey, do this drug with me, this

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Speaker 1: drug that will have this this physical emotional effect on

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Speaker 1: me and you right, and will both experience this to

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Speaker 1: other There'll be this communal aspect and we'll both survive

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Speaker 1: it together. It will come out on the other hand,

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Speaker 1: And if you frame it that way, when you ask

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Speaker 1: the madame a date, they I don't know. It depends

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Speaker 1: on the individual. They might be more inclined to say yes,

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Speaker 1: but they might be more inclined to say no and

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Speaker 1: never speak to you again. But that is what the

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Speaker 1: proposition actually is. When someone says, Hey, um, I know

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Speaker 1: you're in my my physics class and we haven't really talked,

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Speaker 1: but why don't you go watch the new Friday to

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Speaker 1: thirdeenth movie with me? Let's metaphorically survive this together. Yes, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I don't know. I might, I might go all right,

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Speaker 1: So who might be watching these kinds of movies the

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Speaker 1: most Well, we've talked about the type T personality before.

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Speaker 1: We're talking about the new philiacs who crave new experiences.

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Speaker 1: They get more of a jolt and they release more dopamine.

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Speaker 1: So it would follow that perhaps a type T personality

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Speaker 1: would be more amenable to getting the pants scared off

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Speaker 1: of them. Yeah, someone who just is who just goes

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Speaker 1: into the theater and says, just push my boundaries, push

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Speaker 1: my buttons. You know, they're not They're not worried about

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Speaker 1: any of their triggers being pulled on a particular movie.

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Speaker 1: If anything, they want their triggers pulled, and they want

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Speaker 1: all the triggers possible to be pulled. Yeah, they were like,

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Speaker 1: I just jumped off a plan today. Bring it on

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Speaker 1: what you got, And it's it's often hard to relate

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Speaker 1: to people like that when it comes to U two

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Speaker 1: movies to fiction written fiction, even because there they seem

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Speaker 1: to have at times drastically different expectations of the subject matter.

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Speaker 1: You know. But anyway, that's another digression for for another time.

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Speaker 1: I think, um, now, who else might be juiced up

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Speaker 1: by this? Teens and twenty somethings, which flows in nicely

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Speaker 1: with the again the trope of the teenagers going to

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Speaker 1: the drive in theater and watching something scary and winding

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Speaker 1: up arm in arm and lip and lip at least

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Speaker 1: lip and lip. I like that. Research fear research expert

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Speaker 1: Edward Campbell says that older people have stimulation fatigue, like,

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Speaker 1: for instance, do you have these these real horrors of

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Speaker 1: life scaring you? There are things that are actual real threats.

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Speaker 1: When you get older, like you know, there's looming tough

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Speaker 1: that's always unpleasant. Also, you're just more aware of what's

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Speaker 1: going on in the world. I mean, like I feel

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Speaker 1: like I I see a trailer for a film, especially

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Speaker 1: a horror film, that has to do with home invasion,

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Speaker 1: It's like, I'm not going to see that. If I

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Speaker 1: want to get frightened about the possibility of home invasion,

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Speaker 1: you know, I'll just set in my house and listen

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Speaker 1: to the news or something that's that doesn't take me

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Speaker 1: out of my own experience. I know. My brother keeps saying,

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Speaker 1: you gotta watch Cabin in the Woods, you gotta watch

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Speaker 1: the Strangers, And I'm like, you know, I don't want

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Speaker 1: to because I like to go to the mountains in

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Speaker 1: a cabin a lot, and I don't want to now

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Speaker 1: freight my experience there with these paper tigers. Well, Cavin

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Speaker 1: in the Woods you should maybe see. Just know that

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Speaker 1: there's a lot more going on than than meets the eye.

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Speaker 1: It's not just a Cabin in the Woods film. It

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Speaker 1: really plays with that trope a lot and goes into

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Speaker 1: and ultimately goes into a more fantastic area. All right, Well,

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Speaker 1: both of you have really great judgment when it comes

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Speaker 1: to media. So I'm obviously gonna have to see this now.

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Speaker 1: Although you promise this will not ruin my experience in

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Speaker 1: the mountains. Unless you're going to a really weird mountain,

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Speaker 1: I think you'll be fine. Okay, alright, So anyway, would

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Speaker 1: it would make sense that older people are like, you

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Speaker 1: know what, I don't need this necessarily. I don't find

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Speaker 1: it as entertaining as I used to, because you know,

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Speaker 1: when I was a young buck of sixteen, I was

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Speaker 1: more likely to look for really intense experiences. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: mean just physically, you get older and you're maybe not

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Speaker 1: up for the adrenaline pumping roller coaster ride of of

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Speaker 1: a horror film. It's just you just don't want to

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Speaker 1: feel it in your body. Um. And uh, And I'm

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Speaker 1: not I'm not quite there yet, but I've I've I've

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Speaker 1: certainly heard people make that argument. They say, I just

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Speaker 1: can't do it just makes my heart race. I just

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Speaker 1: don't want to go through it. And and I can

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Speaker 1: understand that, especially again, when you think of the horror movie,

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Speaker 1: the is the the artificial fear experience as a full

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Speaker 1: body event. Yeah, it's funny. Um, I think I've mentioned

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Speaker 1: this before, but before the birth of my daughter, I

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Speaker 1: could watch anything, and it really wasn't that difficult for

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Speaker 1: me to watch, um, you know, because I could very

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Speaker 1: much say, oh, yeah, this is the willing suspension of disbelief,

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Speaker 1: it's not real, so on and so forth. But after

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Speaker 1: her I had her, I was everything was sort of like, oh,

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Speaker 1: this is difficult to watch, including horror movies. So I've

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Speaker 1: come out of that a bit, but it's not the

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Speaker 1: same anymore. And it's also not the same for the

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Speaker 1: people who make it obviously either. I remember reading an

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Speaker 1: interview with Clive Barker where he was talking about looking

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Speaker 1: back at some of his younger writings and and about how,

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Speaker 1: you know now is as an older man, who's who,

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Speaker 1: who's known people, who's who has died, you know, death

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Speaker 1: has become more part of his reality. And therefore, looking

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Speaker 1: back on his view of death in his earlier horror films,

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Speaker 1: he says, you know, sometimes it's harder to relate to that.

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Speaker 1: It just seems is a different person. Indeed. All right,

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Speaker 1: so it's not just me out there having a different

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Speaker 1: perspective on this. All right, We're gonna take a quick

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Speaker 1: break and when we get back, we are going to

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Speaker 1: talk about the thematic power of these movies. All right,

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Speaker 1: we are back, and uh, you know, all that snack

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Speaker 1: talk remind me that we are actually going to talk

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Speaker 1: about products that eat during scary movies. But before we

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Speaker 1: do that, let's talk about the thematic power of scary movies. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: because that's another huge thing to think about, because, as

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Speaker 1: always um with humans, there's this sort of animal level,

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Speaker 1: there's the I'm seeing something scary and then I'm bodily

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Speaker 1: responding to it. But of course horror movies have a

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Speaker 1: lot of baggage with them as well. Even a bad

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Speaker 1: horror movie is is generally coming to you on the

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Speaker 1: backbones of long standing tropes, long standing folk tales, long

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Speaker 1: standing cultural fears. I mean, it's a it's a complex

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Speaker 1: there's a complex undercurrent there, even if the director or

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Speaker 1: actors or whoever responsible for this piece don't really have

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Speaker 1: a clue what they're doing. Yeah, I feel like, um,

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Speaker 1: I feel like writers and directors are tapping into these

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Speaker 1: very ancient stories that we have been telling each other

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Speaker 1: as cautionary tales. So you begin to see, obviously the

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Speaker 1: tropes pop up again and again. Yeah, It's one of

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Speaker 1: the reasons why I probably enjoy bad horror movies and

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Speaker 1: bad genre films as much, if not more than than

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Speaker 1: good ones, because you do see these accidents of genius.

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Speaker 1: They'll be a bad film and like somehow they'll they'll

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Speaker 1: have like a perfect scene, or the monster will will

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Speaker 1: will somehow connect on a on a level that it's

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Speaker 1: just out of keeping with the rest of the film,

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Speaker 1: because they'll they'll they'll accidentally at times get it right. Um,

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Speaker 1: they'll they'll tap into these these at times primal feelings. Now,

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Speaker 1: I should also say that when we talk about this,

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Speaker 1: we're talking about a very sort of hetero norm situation

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Speaker 1: going on here that horror movies appeal to. So let's say,

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Speaker 1: for instance, that your walk during a movie and all

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Speaker 1: the guys in it generally are cads, right, there's no

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Speaker 1: sort of night and shining armor. There is this idea,

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Speaker 1: according to the site Killer Film, that that might put

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Speaker 1: your male date attendee in a really good light. So,

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Speaker 1: for instance, you could be watching all of this terrible

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Speaker 1: uh sort of things unfold in front of you, and

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Speaker 1: you might have this guy next to you who just

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Speaker 1: took twenty dollars out of your wallet, but you don't

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Speaker 1: have to worry about him hopefully gutting you like a

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Speaker 1: fish later. Yeah, that's true. Um, you know, we're looking

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Speaker 1: at an article how watching horror movies on dates can

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Speaker 1: help you score by Serena Whitney at Killer Film and

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Speaker 1: and she does bring up a number of interesting points,

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Speaker 1: again in a very heteronormal uh sense here, but but yeah,

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Speaker 1: you're watching a horror film. All of the men are horrible,

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Speaker 1: even the ones that aren't bearing machetes. And then oftentimes

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Speaker 1: there is at least this misguided attempt to have a

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Speaker 1: strong female because you have that you have that lone

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Speaker 1: survivor that one female that makes it to the end

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Speaker 1: of the film. And granted, the character development is generally

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Speaker 1: not gonna beete there. It's not gonna it's not going

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Speaker 1: to be the kind of character that that feminist essays

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Speaker 1: are written on, written about for years and years and years.

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Speaker 1: But there's an idea of of female strength and male

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Speaker 1: lacking there. Yeah. I was thinking even in the scream films,

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Speaker 1: or at least the first one, the male that is

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Speaker 1: supposed to be the one who is sensitive and perhaps

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Speaker 1: the hero turns out to be actually the purp yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so you know, could you can find examples of these

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Speaker 1: all day long. Yeah, some of your more interesting films

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Speaker 1: are aware of these tropes and then begin to play

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Speaker 1: with them on some level or another. So so yeah, yeah, alright, Um,

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Speaker 1: then you also get this kind of like symbolism that

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Speaker 1: that's that's couched in there. So if you look at

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Speaker 1: a movie like Predator or even the Alien franchise, what

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Speaker 1: do you see? You see these creatures who have uh,

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Speaker 1: there's no sensitive way to say this. They have these

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Speaker 1: Jenna Talia like looking creatures that evoke the idea of

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Speaker 1: vagina dentata ven jhona dentata. I feel like we've probably

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Speaker 1: mentioned here a couple of times, is the idea that

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Speaker 1: of Jinna might have teeth and attack you. And it's

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Speaker 1: this very sort of grotesque rendering of the female body,

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Speaker 1: and it taps into this fear of females and this

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Speaker 1: rendering of females as monsters, as unholy and evil. And

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Speaker 1: so it's interesting that in horror movies, uh you'll see

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Speaker 1: some of this embedded. Yeah. Yeah, the monster's feminine plays

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Speaker 1: a huge role in in more more horror films than

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Speaker 1: we could We could count more horror properties and more

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Speaker 1: horror tales. Um. So, yeah, when you're when you're going

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Speaker 1: into a film, you're encountering the monstrous. The monstrous always

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Speaker 1: has some level of symbolic power, right, because you're you're

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Speaker 1: involving the animal and the hybrid coming together, and that

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00:21:52,119 --> 00:21:54,159
Speaker 1: ends up having some sort of symbolic meaning that you

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Speaker 1: end up deciphering on on some level or another. And

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Speaker 1: then when you throw in all of this uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: yonic or or phallix symbolism, then suddenly there's there's gender politics.

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Speaker 1: They're sexual issues at way. Uh again oftentimes just going

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Speaker 1: on completely under the surface of the film. And and

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Speaker 1: maybe the filmmakers themselves were not even aware of the

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Speaker 1: symbols they were playing with, which I feel like plays

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Speaker 1: into this idea of of hey, hussy watching you know

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Speaker 1: that that you're a hussy, so why don't you just

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Speaker 1: you know, submit to it. I mean, obviously they're not

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Speaker 1: really command saying it, but there are those undertones there,

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Speaker 1: which then are compounded by the fact that most scary

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Speaker 1: movies have a ton of actual sex going on. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's generally a great place to throw in your gratuitous

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Speaker 1: nudity and uh and really. I mean I remember as

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Speaker 1: far as like seeing nudity on film, like all the

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00:22:46,880 --> 00:22:49,080
Speaker 1: earliest examples of it. I feel like we're in horror

428
00:22:49,080 --> 00:22:52,159
Speaker 1: films um or even like not even quite nudity, but

429
00:22:52,280 --> 00:22:55,480
Speaker 1: just semi nude bodies. It would be like that scene

430
00:22:55,480 --> 00:22:58,040
Speaker 1: an alien with the underwear, So that that in and

431
00:22:58,040 --> 00:23:01,360
Speaker 1: of itself is kind of a a conflicting area where

432
00:23:01,400 --> 00:23:04,240
Speaker 1: you end up having your your early ideas about sexuality

433
00:23:04,280 --> 00:23:08,520
Speaker 1: are partially molded by films that are also full of

434
00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:14,280
Speaker 1: bloodshed and problematic displays of sexuality and or gender, and

435
00:23:14,520 --> 00:23:17,760
Speaker 1: along with with with poor character development. But at the

436
00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:20,560
Speaker 1: very least, it's a very good possibility that when you

437
00:23:20,600 --> 00:23:22,159
Speaker 1: go in to see a horror film there's also going

438
00:23:22,200 --> 00:23:24,439
Speaker 1: to be a little bit of skin. Yeah, And I

439
00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:25,920
Speaker 1: think it's writing on the coat tails of what we

440
00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:29,080
Speaker 1: talked about before, which is a certain amount of vulnerability

441
00:23:29,280 --> 00:23:32,720
Speaker 1: wrapped up in nudity, which we've talked about before. Um,

442
00:23:32,960 --> 00:23:34,760
Speaker 1: I'm even thinking about this. Have you ever seen that

443
00:23:34,880 --> 00:23:39,200
Speaker 1: nineteen seventies French film called The Beast? No, but I've

444
00:23:39,240 --> 00:23:42,960
Speaker 1: I've always wanted to because the VHS cover always calls

445
00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:44,600
Speaker 1: out to me when I go to video Drone, the

446
00:23:44,840 --> 00:23:48,639
Speaker 1: of course mecca of of of vhs and DVD rental

447
00:23:48,680 --> 00:23:51,480
Speaker 1: here in in Atlanta, because you see that be steel

448
00:23:51,560 --> 00:23:55,399
Speaker 1: hand reaching after a woman's bottom or is it just

449
00:23:55,440 --> 00:23:57,760
Speaker 1: her flesh? I can't remember remember the cover art for it,

450
00:23:57,800 --> 00:23:59,760
Speaker 1: but what I came away from that is that you know,

451
00:23:59,760 --> 00:24:02,240
Speaker 1: there's of this beast, you know, stalking this woman and

452
00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:05,040
Speaker 1: in the forest, and she's naked a lot of the time.

453
00:24:05,080 --> 00:24:07,000
Speaker 1: And so it really comes down to sort of the

454
00:24:07,560 --> 00:24:11,560
Speaker 1: rudimentary brass tacks of horror. You've got your vulnerability, You've

455
00:24:11,560 --> 00:24:15,480
Speaker 1: got this creature that's after you, and you're in the woods,

456
00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:20,480
Speaker 1: you're in unfamiliar territory being stalked. Now, I also want

457
00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:22,800
Speaker 1: to throw in that that the Sigmen Freud, of course

458
00:24:22,800 --> 00:24:25,920
Speaker 1: suggested that horror was appealing because it traffics and thoughts

459
00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:28,720
Speaker 1: and feelings that have been repressed by the ego but

460
00:24:28,760 --> 00:24:32,640
Speaker 1: which seemed vaguely familiar. So again, all of these symbolic

461
00:24:32,760 --> 00:24:35,920
Speaker 1: ideas are are embedded in the meat of the horror,

462
00:24:36,040 --> 00:24:39,120
Speaker 1: even if even if the creators were not aware of it.

463
00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:41,560
Speaker 1: And just and when you play with the monster, when

464
00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:43,960
Speaker 1: you're playing with the with with images of the monsters,

465
00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:48,880
Speaker 1: you end up playing with weird uh alignments of these symbols. Um.

466
00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:51,200
Speaker 1: I want to read that just a quick passage here.

467
00:24:51,800 --> 00:24:54,040
Speaker 1: I want to read a quick passage here from Monster

468
00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:58,040
Speaker 1: Culture by Jeffrey Jerome Cohen. It's one of the Essays

469
00:24:58,040 --> 00:25:02,400
Speaker 1: and Speaking of Monsters, which is a collection of wonderful

470
00:25:02,520 --> 00:25:05,919
Speaker 1: essays about the monsters and film monsters and fiction monsters

471
00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:08,600
Speaker 1: and culture in general and what they mean. I recommend

472
00:25:08,640 --> 00:25:10,119
Speaker 1: checking in that book out if this is it all

473
00:25:10,119 --> 00:25:14,960
Speaker 1: your thing, But anyway, Cohen says, the monster is continually

474
00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:18,920
Speaker 1: linked to forbidden practices in order to normalize and to enforce.

475
00:25:19,040 --> 00:25:22,280
Speaker 1: The monster also attracts the same creatures who terrify and

476
00:25:22,359 --> 00:25:26,680
Speaker 1: interdict can invote potent escapist fantasies. The linking of monstrosity

477
00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:29,879
Speaker 1: with the forbidden makes the monster all the more appealing

478
00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:35,040
Speaker 1: as a temporary aggress from constraint. The simultaneous repulsion and

479
00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:38,439
Speaker 1: attraction at the core of the monster's composition accounts greatly

480
00:25:38,520 --> 00:25:41,480
Speaker 1: for its continued cultural popularity. For the fact that the

481
00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:45,680
Speaker 1: monster seldom can be contained in a simple binary dialectic.

482
00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:48,560
Speaker 1: We distrust and loathe the monster at the same time

483
00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:51,919
Speaker 1: we envy its freedom and perhaps it's sublime despair. The

484
00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:57,080
Speaker 1: habitations of monsters are more than dark regions of uncertain danger.

485
00:25:57,280 --> 00:26:00,560
Speaker 1: They are also realms of happy fantasy, horizons of liberation.

486
00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:04,639
Speaker 1: Their monsters served as secondary bodies through which the possibilities

487
00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:08,560
Speaker 1: of other genders, other sexual practices, and other social customs

488
00:26:08,600 --> 00:26:11,840
Speaker 1: can be explored. And you know, right before we started

489
00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:15,280
Speaker 1: the podcast, we were talking about literary criticism when we

490
00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:20,000
Speaker 1: were talking about Jacques Lacan and Deridav who both took

491
00:26:20,119 --> 00:26:25,400
Speaker 1: on language as saying, it is a coda for for

492
00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:28,439
Speaker 1: the rules of how we behave in society or the

493
00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:32,440
Speaker 1: ideas that we have, and it's heavily patriarchal. So it's

494
00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:35,800
Speaker 1: interesting to think about that, um, the way that we

495
00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:38,760
Speaker 1: are forming the symbols, which is part of language to

496
00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:45,800
Speaker 1: inform the actual story unfolding before us. Indeed, all right,

497
00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:47,600
Speaker 1: so we have this idea that we have the really

498
00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:51,280
Speaker 1: powerful themes, and we have these mirror neurons working in

499
00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:57,400
Speaker 1: our brains. We're responding to this chemical cocktail inside of us,

500
00:26:57,840 --> 00:27:02,080
Speaker 1: and perhaps we inch closer together in a symbolic act

501
00:27:02,160 --> 00:27:05,080
Speaker 1: of defending ourselves from the terror before us on the screen.

502
00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:11,560
Speaker 1: Is there any evidence that watching scary movies can increase

503
00:27:12,640 --> 00:27:17,639
Speaker 1: acts of humping. Well, that's that's the big question, right,

504
00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:21,120
Speaker 1: And fortunately we do have a pretty key study that

505
00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:23,840
Speaker 1: sheds some light on this. It doesn't necessarily answer all

506
00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:26,199
Speaker 1: the questions, but it continues to stand as a as

507
00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:30,040
Speaker 1: a pivotal study into this this question. Uh and uh.

508
00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:34,800
Speaker 1: In this we're talking about the misattribution of arousal, which

509
00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:37,960
Speaker 1: is the process whereby people make a mistake in assuming

510
00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:40,800
Speaker 1: what is causing them to feel aroused. And it all

511
00:27:40,800 --> 00:27:43,640
Speaker 1: comes down to this. Uh, this article heightened sexual attraction

512
00:27:43,720 --> 00:27:47,440
Speaker 1: under conditions of high anxiety. And this is the study

513
00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:51,119
Speaker 1: by psychologist Donald Dutton and author Aaron Um And it

514
00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:54,560
Speaker 1: all has to do with in what is in a

515
00:27:54,600 --> 00:27:58,880
Speaker 1: sense kind of a physical manifestation of a horror movie. Hey,

516
00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:03,159
Speaker 1: a dangly bridge bridge. Yeah. And it's sometimes known as

517
00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:07,480
Speaker 1: the Catalano suspension bridge experiment because they had eighty five

518
00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:11,760
Speaker 1: males between the ages of eighteen and thirty five who

519
00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:15,320
Speaker 1: would walk across one of two bridges over the couple

520
00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:21,440
Speaker 1: in a river in Vancouver, Canada, and afterwards they were interviewed. Yeah,

521
00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:24,439
Speaker 1: it's a little bit more layered than that. Yeah, So

522
00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:26,879
Speaker 1: you have the two bridges. One is The is definitely

523
00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:29,800
Speaker 1: the scary bridge, the horror movie bridge, five ft wide,

524
00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:34,560
Speaker 1: foot long bridge construction of wooden boards attached to wire cables.

525
00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:36,639
Speaker 1: Perhaps you've walked on one of these before, but I

526
00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:39,360
Speaker 1: can't stand them. They sway and there and then and

527
00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:42,000
Speaker 1: it's it's hard enough when you're alone, but then inevitably

528
00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:45,600
Speaker 1: there's gonna be some some jerkwad's gonna come come on

529
00:28:45,640 --> 00:28:47,680
Speaker 1: the under the bridge right behind you and start jumping

530
00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:50,560
Speaker 1: around and some type tea yeah, and then and then

531
00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:53,080
Speaker 1: you're starting to freak out, and you know, crawling across

532
00:28:53,160 --> 00:28:55,400
Speaker 1: the rest of it, I mean basically the rope bridge

533
00:28:55,560 --> 00:28:58,240
Speaker 1: in the the second Indiana Jones movie. You know, that's

534
00:28:58,360 --> 00:29:01,640
Speaker 1: that's the experience. Okay, so some people use that bridge.

535
00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:04,240
Speaker 1: Other people though that we're going across the Control bridge,

536
00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:06,320
Speaker 1: which was a solid wood bridge that was a little

537
00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:08,920
Speaker 1: further upriver, and this is the constructed a heavy seater.

538
00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:11,640
Speaker 1: It's not going anywhere. Nobody's jumping on this thing to

539
00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:15,040
Speaker 1: make it sway around. It's solid. So they both crossed.

540
00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:17,040
Speaker 1: Both groups crossed the bridges, and at the other end

541
00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:19,640
Speaker 1: of the bridge, they're interviewed by a female conducting a

542
00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:21,840
Speaker 1: survey and giving them all these these questions they have

543
00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:24,600
Speaker 1: to answers. The guys who had crossed the scary bridge

544
00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:28,040
Speaker 1: filled out their questionnaires with stronger sexual imagery than the

545
00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:32,280
Speaker 1: men who had crossed the safe bridge. Now this is

546
00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:35,640
Speaker 1: where it gets very interesting. Both groups were given a

547
00:29:35,800 --> 00:29:38,960
Speaker 1: number where they could reach the female assistant in case

548
00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:43,200
Speaker 1: they required any clarification on the surveys that they took,

549
00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:46,200
Speaker 1: which would obviously give them a chance to follow up

550
00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:50,200
Speaker 1: with her. Right the guys on the suspension bridge where

551
00:29:50,240 --> 00:29:54,480
Speaker 1: five times is likely to call her the next day.

552
00:29:55,040 --> 00:29:57,440
Speaker 1: So what's the idea here, I mean, what's going on? Well,

553
00:29:57,480 --> 00:30:02,560
Speaker 1: the idea is that your body is aroused by the tear.

554
00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:06,040
Speaker 1: You know, we're talking about this basic physical arousal again.

555
00:30:06,120 --> 00:30:07,920
Speaker 1: You know, think back to what we're talking about with

556
00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:11,200
Speaker 1: your your your heart is raising, your breathing faster, and

557
00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:13,840
Speaker 1: you have all this dopamine rushing through through your system.

558
00:30:14,080 --> 00:30:16,720
Speaker 1: You're feeling all of that, and then you're encountering this

559
00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:20,239
Speaker 1: member of the opposite sex, and and you end up

560
00:30:20,280 --> 00:30:24,120
Speaker 1: misattributing the cause of that arousal to the woman instead

561
00:30:24,120 --> 00:30:26,680
Speaker 1: of the scary bridge. Uh and and this is all,

562
00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:29,560
Speaker 1: of course all uh and of course all this has

563
00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:32,600
Speaker 1: to do as well, supposedly with the with the chemical dopamine,

564
00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:35,400
Speaker 1: which is gushing out when you feel that first rush

565
00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:39,040
Speaker 1: of attraction or terror. Again comes back to the dual

566
00:30:39,120 --> 00:30:42,840
Speaker 1: nature uh and the and the shared machinery for these

567
00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:45,320
Speaker 1: positive and negative emotions. Yeah, because it's funny. Even though

568
00:30:45,360 --> 00:30:48,480
Speaker 1: there is an uptick in dopamine, it's not like a

569
00:30:48,560 --> 00:30:52,560
Speaker 1: gushing uptick. There is the feeling that it's gushing and

570
00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:55,840
Speaker 1: you're gushing, and you feel emboldened by this. So it

571
00:30:56,000 --> 00:31:00,240
Speaker 1: makes sense that the men were more likely to call

572
00:31:00,360 --> 00:31:04,440
Speaker 1: because they're looking at this experience and thinking about it. Um. Now,

573
00:31:04,520 --> 00:31:07,280
Speaker 1: there was a another I wouldn't say it was an

574
00:31:07,320 --> 00:31:11,080
Speaker 1: experiment because it was on ABC's Catalyst program. There was

575
00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:13,400
Speaker 1: an episode called The Science of Dating, How to Catch

576
00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:17,520
Speaker 1: a Mate, in which the suspension bridge experiment was reversed.

577
00:31:17,560 --> 00:31:20,080
Speaker 1: They had two groups of women who were tested to

578
00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:23,120
Speaker 1: see if the same thing would happen. So the reporter

579
00:31:23,160 --> 00:31:25,960
Speaker 1: on this, Dr. Paul Willis, recruited six women to ride

580
00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:30,920
Speaker 1: what he called the Terrifying New Superman roller coaster, and

581
00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:34,719
Speaker 1: then another six to go on Marvin the Martians Rocket,

582
00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:37,360
Speaker 1: which Marvin the Martian is like a kitty ride. There's

583
00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:41,080
Speaker 1: nothing thrilling, thrilling or scary about it. It sounds pretty fun.

584
00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:44,840
Speaker 1: I would probably prefer that it does have sort of

585
00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:47,520
Speaker 1: an adorable quality too, but I think I would ride both. Actually,

586
00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:51,160
Speaker 1: So what happened next is that Willis hits on all

587
00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:55,760
Speaker 1: the women on camera, So obviously there's some amusing stuff

588
00:31:55,800 --> 00:31:58,400
Speaker 1: going on there. Now, five of the six women who

589
00:31:58,520 --> 00:32:01,440
Speaker 1: rode the roller coaster were up for a drink after

590
00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:06,200
Speaker 1: filming Good for You, dr Willis, while only two of

591
00:32:06,240 --> 00:32:10,760
Speaker 1: the Marvin the Martian women accepted his invitation. Moreover, when

592
00:32:10,840 --> 00:32:14,240
Speaker 1: they filled out a survey and they used um language.

593
00:32:14,280 --> 00:32:16,120
Speaker 1: The women on the roller coaster that was much more

594
00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:19,520
Speaker 1: sexually charged and Marvin the Martian. Now that's not to

595
00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:22,479
Speaker 1: say that there are not some potential holes in this article.

596
00:32:22,720 --> 00:32:26,320
Speaker 1: It's been brought up by critics over the years that

597
00:32:26,920 --> 00:32:28,800
Speaker 1: that some of this doesn't hold up as well when

598
00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:31,120
Speaker 1: you reverse the genders, when you start trying to replicate

599
00:32:31,480 --> 00:32:34,800
Speaker 1: the exact results. Uh. In particular, we're looking at an

600
00:32:34,880 --> 00:32:37,520
Speaker 1: article titled attraction at first Sight What data and Aaron

601
00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:39,880
Speaker 1: really demonstrated almost forty years ago. A two thousand twelve

602
00:32:39,960 --> 00:32:44,400
Speaker 1: article by Katazan Suzuka, and she pointed out that some

603
00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:47,360
Speaker 1: of the funds have done in arab um created in

604
00:32:47,400 --> 00:32:51,680
Speaker 1: subsequent experiments could not be replicated by both a nineteen

605
00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:55,680
Speaker 1: seventy nine study by Kendrick, Kale, Danny and Linder and

606
00:32:55,960 --> 00:33:00,360
Speaker 1: a ninety three study by Reardon and Tatsishi. That's right,

607
00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:03,720
Speaker 1: and so that's when when we talk about studies and

608
00:33:03,760 --> 00:33:07,840
Speaker 1: we talk about experiments, UM, it's always helpful to know

609
00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:09,959
Speaker 1: the context of it and to know whether or not

610
00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:14,560
Speaker 1: the data could be duplicated. And so in this sense,

611
00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:16,640
Speaker 1: it really does kind of cast a little bit of

612
00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:20,320
Speaker 1: doubt over what was going on here. Also, you have

613
00:33:20,520 --> 00:33:24,959
Speaker 1: to wonder about the person um who was participating. Was

614
00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:28,680
Speaker 1: that person a neophiliac, a type T personality who was

615
00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:32,760
Speaker 1: open to more experiences? Would that person be more apt

616
00:33:32,840 --> 00:33:37,440
Speaker 1: to try to pursue some sort of relationship or dating opening, Yeah,

617
00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:39,280
Speaker 1: I mean you could even get into cultural differences. That

618
00:33:39,320 --> 00:33:43,120
Speaker 1: first study was its Canadian So does that end up

619
00:33:43,120 --> 00:33:46,120
Speaker 1: playing a role in subsequent studies They're not, Uh, that

620
00:33:46,280 --> 00:33:49,880
Speaker 1: don't don't involve Canadians or their cultural differences that play

621
00:33:49,880 --> 00:33:52,800
Speaker 1: a role. And it also in terms of applying that

622
00:33:52,880 --> 00:33:55,600
Speaker 1: study to this uh, people on a date at a

623
00:33:55,640 --> 00:34:00,520
Speaker 1: movie theater scenario. Um, you have the added complexity of

624
00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:02,720
Speaker 1: the individuals on the date are going to be stimulated

625
00:34:02,760 --> 00:34:06,840
Speaker 1: and aroused by what they're watching, but they're also potentially

626
00:34:06,920 --> 00:34:09,600
Speaker 1: going to be stimulated by each other. I mean, they're

627
00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:11,920
Speaker 1: they're on a date, so they're they're thinking about this

628
00:34:11,960 --> 00:34:15,319
Speaker 1: other person. They're looking at that other person. They're conceivably

629
00:34:15,719 --> 00:34:19,040
Speaker 1: feeling some level of physical arousal just by being in

630
00:34:19,040 --> 00:34:22,400
Speaker 1: their company. So you're having these two competing uh sets

631
00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:26,880
Speaker 1: of stimuli. Well, maybe not competing, but complimentary, which is

632
00:34:26,920 --> 00:34:31,319
Speaker 1: really interesting when you stop to consider one study that

633
00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:35,880
Speaker 1: had to do with products kind of hitching a ride

634
00:34:36,760 --> 00:34:40,239
Speaker 1: on those feelings. Oh yes, this one's great because what

635
00:34:40,239 --> 00:34:42,239
Speaker 1: do you do when you're at the movie theater. You're

636
00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:45,600
Speaker 1: seeing this horror movie and you don't have this other

637
00:34:45,680 --> 00:34:49,279
Speaker 1: person to to jump into the arms of, Right, you

638
00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:52,759
Speaker 1: cling to whatever you're drinking or you're eating as a

639
00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:56,040
Speaker 1: source of comfort. Yeah, and you go for the brand. Right,

640
00:34:56,120 --> 00:34:57,959
Speaker 1: you don't go for TWI, you don't go for Red Vine,

641
00:34:58,000 --> 00:34:59,800
Speaker 1: you go for twists. You go for the You go

642
00:34:59,880 --> 00:35:01,719
Speaker 1: for the good stuff, the strong stuff, the stuff you

643
00:35:01,760 --> 00:35:06,760
Speaker 1: care about. The brand you can trust for all plastic candies. Yeah,

644
00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:09,320
Speaker 1: you don't go for it. Was that hydroxy versus oreos.

645
00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:12,440
Speaker 1: That that one always troubled me. Just the name hydrox

646
00:35:12,560 --> 00:35:14,919
Speaker 1: sounds like the version of oreos that Walter White cooks

647
00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:18,040
Speaker 1: up in his lab beneath the chicken plant. Right, never

648
00:35:18,200 --> 00:35:21,120
Speaker 1: eat anything that Walter White makes. That's just a rule

649
00:35:21,160 --> 00:35:23,400
Speaker 1: in life. There's a two thousand and four study in

650
00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:26,800
Speaker 1: the Journal of Consumer Research that looks at this idea

651
00:35:26,880 --> 00:35:29,440
Speaker 1: that that when you don't have person to person support

652
00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:34,200
Speaker 1: when you're experiencing something that's scary, that you will replace

653
00:35:34,440 --> 00:35:40,520
Speaker 1: that person um with something else, like a actual physical object.

654
00:35:41,000 --> 00:35:42,799
Speaker 1: So they had a couple of studies, but in one

655
00:35:42,920 --> 00:35:45,760
Speaker 1: they had one in which participants were asked to drink

656
00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:48,680
Speaker 1: the juice or this kind of juice during a movie

657
00:35:48,719 --> 00:35:51,040
Speaker 1: and they were asked to wait or given a choice

658
00:35:51,040 --> 00:35:54,960
Speaker 1: to drink at leisure. Now their choices were horror action

659
00:35:55,200 --> 00:35:59,319
Speaker 1: or a documentary. And the study results showed that the

660
00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:03,400
Speaker 1: most increase in emotional attachment to the juice and participants

661
00:36:03,440 --> 00:36:05,960
Speaker 1: who viewed the horror movie and who were allowed to

662
00:36:06,080 --> 00:36:09,400
Speaker 1: drink at leisure or asked to wait until the end

663
00:36:09,400 --> 00:36:12,120
Speaker 1: of the movie, So again we see some sort of

664
00:36:12,280 --> 00:36:15,799
Speaker 1: emotional connection to that, which I have to say, I

665
00:36:15,840 --> 00:36:18,160
Speaker 1: don't know if you've ever done this when you watched

666
00:36:18,200 --> 00:36:21,680
Speaker 1: something that, you know, a movie that was scary or

667
00:36:21,760 --> 00:36:25,520
Speaker 1: just ramped up your sense of anticipation, um, and you

668
00:36:25,640 --> 00:36:28,319
Speaker 1: just kept going for the popcorn over and over again, because,

669
00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:31,600
Speaker 1: as we've talked about before, food is a source of comfort. Yeah,

670
00:36:31,680 --> 00:36:33,520
Speaker 1: and then when you're in the popcorn, of course, you're

671
00:36:33,560 --> 00:36:36,000
Speaker 1: you're you're eating it and it's getting the salty, the sweet,

672
00:36:36,040 --> 00:36:38,200
Speaker 1: the fat. I mean, it's it's it's in itself kind

673
00:36:38,239 --> 00:36:41,040
Speaker 1: of a super normal stimuli as well. But but yeah,

674
00:36:41,080 --> 00:36:43,239
Speaker 1: I've certainly had that experience where you're watching the film

675
00:36:43,239 --> 00:36:46,360
Speaker 1: and you just can't stop eating the popcorn. Now, this

676
00:36:46,440 --> 00:36:50,479
Speaker 1: study was conducted because there's this idea that you could

677
00:36:50,480 --> 00:36:54,040
Speaker 1: have negative associations with brands and then you would turn

678
00:36:54,040 --> 00:36:56,160
Speaker 1: away from them. At least this is what a lot

679
00:36:56,200 --> 00:37:00,400
Speaker 1: of industries like coke and and other manufacturers of snack

680
00:37:00,440 --> 00:37:03,960
Speaker 1: food thought, and so this experiment was interesting because it

681
00:37:04,040 --> 00:37:06,000
Speaker 1: kind of turns that paradigm on its head and if

682
00:37:06,040 --> 00:37:09,160
Speaker 1: you're interested in learning more about it. The studies called

683
00:37:09,160 --> 00:37:12,680
Speaker 1: the Impact of Fear on emotional brand attachment. It was

684
00:37:12,760 --> 00:37:17,680
Speaker 1: published in the June fourteen edition of Journal of Consumer Research.

685
00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:21,400
Speaker 1: I feel like I can I can definitely relate to

686
00:37:21,440 --> 00:37:26,080
Speaker 1: that because just Monday evening I watched the nineteen seventy

687
00:37:26,160 --> 00:37:28,840
Speaker 1: nine horror film Tourist Trap and if your film dunkies.

688
00:37:28,880 --> 00:37:31,799
Speaker 1: It starred Chuck Conners, you know, the rifleman from the

689
00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:36,880
Speaker 1: old TV shows, as this kind of like psychic hillbilly

690
00:37:36,920 --> 00:37:40,000
Speaker 1: mannequin obsessed. It was kind of a it was did

691
00:37:40,040 --> 00:37:43,160
Speaker 1: you say mannequin? Oh, yeah, it's it has creepy mannequins

692
00:37:43,160 --> 00:37:46,680
Speaker 1: in it and psychic abilities and uh and in fear

693
00:37:47,000 --> 00:37:51,239
Speaker 1: of of rural folk and old versus their whole true detective. No,

694
00:37:51,440 --> 00:37:54,160
Speaker 1: it's it's not so elegantly crafty. It's it's not a

695
00:37:54,160 --> 00:37:57,360
Speaker 1: good movie, but but there's but it has some flip

696
00:37:57,360 --> 00:38:00,000
Speaker 1: scenes that are legitimately creepy, and it has a say

697
00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:02,440
Speaker 1: where there's a Dr Pepper machine in the background while

698
00:38:02,719 --> 00:38:04,960
Speaker 1: our lone survivor girl tries to figure out what she's

699
00:38:04,960 --> 00:38:07,520
Speaker 1: gonna do, and it's just, you know, she's terrified and

700
00:38:07,560 --> 00:38:10,080
Speaker 1: she's standing around and there's a Dr Pepper logo. And

701
00:38:10,080 --> 00:38:11,399
Speaker 1: at the time I was just kind of like, oh,

702
00:38:11,440 --> 00:38:13,839
Speaker 1: what's that's kind of weird that Dr Pepper machines there.

703
00:38:14,080 --> 00:38:16,040
Speaker 1: I wonder what they thought about it, if they, if

704
00:38:16,040 --> 00:38:18,920
Speaker 1: anyone in the corporate level ever knew that their logo

705
00:38:18,960 --> 00:38:22,800
Speaker 1: showed up in this film. But even even still thinking

706
00:38:22,840 --> 00:38:26,240
Speaker 1: back on it, uh, the other evening, I started thinking

707
00:38:26,280 --> 00:38:28,399
Speaker 1: about Dr Pepper. I started thinking about how it takes

708
00:38:28,440 --> 00:38:30,840
Speaker 1: and even though I haven't haven't consumed a Dr Pepper

709
00:38:31,120 --> 00:38:33,239
Speaker 1: in years and years and years, I did kind of

710
00:38:33,280 --> 00:38:35,680
Speaker 1: want one in that moment. Did you know what goes

711
00:38:35,719 --> 00:38:39,359
Speaker 1: with it? Really? Well, what's that? I kid you not,

712
00:38:39,600 --> 00:38:42,200
Speaker 1: My sixteen year old self will tell you that that's

713
00:38:42,200 --> 00:38:45,279
Speaker 1: a beautiful flavor combination. Okay, well, well I'll have to

714
00:38:45,320 --> 00:38:48,080
Speaker 1: keep that in mind for next time for sure. Okay.

715
00:38:48,320 --> 00:38:51,560
Speaker 1: We talked about these things, and then often we try

716
00:38:51,600 --> 00:38:55,120
Speaker 1: to find examples in nature, and lo and behold, we

717
00:38:55,160 --> 00:38:59,040
Speaker 1: did find an example of perhaps the scary movie effect

718
00:38:59,440 --> 00:39:03,400
Speaker 1: with us trailing birds. Yes, particularly we're talking about uh

719
00:39:03,520 --> 00:39:07,680
Speaker 1: the splendid fairy wrens, which sounds pretty uh fantastic, but

720
00:39:08,080 --> 00:39:11,400
Speaker 1: this is an actual thing. Particularly the male splendid fairy

721
00:39:11,440 --> 00:39:16,920
Speaker 1: wrens um alright, sexually promiscuous, small bird, and they are

722
00:39:16,960 --> 00:39:21,200
Speaker 1: known to kind of peggyback onto the calls of predatory

723
00:39:21,239 --> 00:39:23,560
Speaker 1: birds such as butcher browder birds. So the butcher bird

724
00:39:23,760 --> 00:39:27,840
Speaker 1: lets out its predatory cry, and in any any potential

725
00:39:27,840 --> 00:39:29,920
Speaker 1: prey in the area are instantly going to go, you know,

726
00:39:29,960 --> 00:39:32,840
Speaker 1: And that's that's a bad sign. That's the sound of

727
00:39:32,880 --> 00:39:35,360
Speaker 1: something that could potentially kill me. That is a scary

728
00:39:35,400 --> 00:39:39,160
Speaker 1: bird call. What is the male ferrier ndo He packs

729
00:39:39,239 --> 00:39:42,560
Speaker 1: on his own little uh love cry onto the end

730
00:39:42,640 --> 00:39:46,000
Speaker 1: of the predator's cry. Yeah, And it's in fact, he

731
00:39:46,120 --> 00:39:49,560
Speaker 1: does it so quickly that it is sometimes considered a duet.

732
00:39:49,680 --> 00:39:52,160
Speaker 1: At least vocally it sounds like that, and this is

733
00:39:52,200 --> 00:39:55,799
Speaker 1: called vocal hitch hiking. And by the way, I love

734
00:39:55,800 --> 00:39:59,400
Speaker 1: the fact that this predator bird is called a butcher bird.

735
00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:01,480
Speaker 1: And I can't help but think you might build a

736
00:40:01,520 --> 00:40:04,560
Speaker 1: butcher with this glorious mustache. So so that's what I

737
00:40:04,600 --> 00:40:07,359
Speaker 1: think of flying around out there. Well, if it's perfectly right,

738
00:40:07,680 --> 00:40:11,040
Speaker 1: there's a butcher. There's a horrible killer in our midst

739
00:40:11,080 --> 00:40:13,640
Speaker 1: and it's calling out to us, it's shrieking. And then

740
00:40:13,719 --> 00:40:18,040
Speaker 1: here is the male of this species, the splendid fairy,

741
00:40:18,160 --> 00:40:22,160
Speaker 1: splendid fairy wren saying hey ladies, Hey ladie, what's going on?

742
00:40:22,800 --> 00:40:26,560
Speaker 1: And it is specifically, it's called a type to call

743
00:40:26,880 --> 00:40:30,080
Speaker 1: that the splendid fairy wren makes, which is specifically a

744
00:40:30,160 --> 00:40:33,680
Speaker 1: mating call, and that's really important. Um. And they were

745
00:40:33,680 --> 00:40:36,680
Speaker 1: out in the field. They did tons of painstaking research

746
00:40:36,760 --> 00:40:40,120
Speaker 1: on this to figure this out. So essentially what they're

747
00:40:40,160 --> 00:40:43,560
Speaker 1: doing at the very basis here is trying to get

748
00:40:43,600 --> 00:40:47,200
Speaker 1: the female's attention, and that is much easier done if

749
00:40:47,360 --> 00:40:53,000
Speaker 1: it is preceded by this terrifying predator out there. Indeed,

750
00:40:53,000 --> 00:40:56,719
Speaker 1: it's almost sending that message. Life is horrible, life is

751
00:40:56,760 --> 00:41:00,080
Speaker 1: full of dangers. You could die, don't when you like

752
00:41:00,120 --> 00:41:01,640
Speaker 1: to have a little comfort, wouldn't you like to have

753
00:41:01,680 --> 00:41:04,719
Speaker 1: a chance, maybe even to fulfill your genetic mission on

754
00:41:04,719 --> 00:41:07,200
Speaker 1: this planet before you wind up in the belly of

755
00:41:07,200 --> 00:41:09,000
Speaker 1: a butcher bird. That's right, there's no time like the

756
00:41:09,000 --> 00:41:12,200
Speaker 1: president to get it on, ladies. I think that's what

757
00:41:12,200 --> 00:41:14,600
Speaker 1: they're saying. Now. Less you think that these male birds

758
00:41:14,600 --> 00:41:17,600
Speaker 1: are competing for a Darwin Award out there in nature, Um,

759
00:41:17,640 --> 00:41:20,439
Speaker 1: it turns out that this singing after a predator call

760
00:41:20,600 --> 00:41:24,760
Speaker 1: may actually be really safe. Male fairy wrens know where

761
00:41:24,760 --> 00:41:28,279
Speaker 1: the predators located first of all, and he also knows

762
00:41:28,320 --> 00:41:32,480
Speaker 1: that the predator isn't actively hunting at that moment, but

763
00:41:32,719 --> 00:41:34,719
Speaker 1: is instead seeing it's hard out as if it were

764
00:41:34,719 --> 00:41:37,359
Speaker 1: in the shower. Oh man, See this makes me think

765
00:41:37,360 --> 00:41:40,160
Speaker 1: of a perfect pitch for for a horror movie. You

766
00:41:40,160 --> 00:41:43,120
Speaker 1: have your basic slasher scenario, right, He's a slasher killer,

767
00:41:43,200 --> 00:41:46,759
Speaker 1: and he you know, he pops up, you know periodically,

768
00:41:46,760 --> 00:41:50,040
Speaker 1: it's some you know late camp or you know, similar haunts.

769
00:41:50,680 --> 00:41:54,640
Speaker 1: But then you also have uh, males, male humans that

770
00:41:54,680 --> 00:41:59,040
Speaker 1: are essentially like our splendid fairy wren who realized, hey,

771
00:41:59,080 --> 00:42:01,680
Speaker 1: if they have a shot at the ladies, they had

772
00:42:01,719 --> 00:42:05,080
Speaker 1: best go hang out in regions where the slasher killer

773
00:42:05,440 --> 00:42:09,520
Speaker 1: uh happens to to frequent. I don't know, I don't know.

774
00:42:09,600 --> 00:42:11,840
Speaker 1: I mean that's that's it's an idea here. Yeah, it

775
00:42:11,880 --> 00:42:14,120
Speaker 1: would be a nice reveal because because again, we love

776
00:42:14,200 --> 00:42:16,880
Speaker 1: the horror movies where all the men are horrible, So

777
00:42:16,920 --> 00:42:20,400
Speaker 1: there would be that reveal. We realize the male characters

778
00:42:20,400 --> 00:42:22,759
Speaker 1: who seem like they're trying to help our female, they're

779
00:42:22,800 --> 00:42:26,479
Speaker 1: basically just looking to score and they're they've they've they're

780
00:42:26,680 --> 00:42:29,600
Speaker 1: using the presence of the Flasher Killer to their advantage

781
00:42:29,880 --> 00:42:34,319
Speaker 1: cats all of you. All right, Um, this is the

782
00:42:34,360 --> 00:42:36,520
Speaker 1: single kids that they've found so far in nature. But

783
00:42:36,960 --> 00:42:39,840
Speaker 1: the researchers um, and this is headed up by Emma

784
00:42:39,960 --> 00:42:42,080
Speaker 1: Greig and she's a PhD. And she's one of the

785
00:42:42,120 --> 00:42:44,440
Speaker 1: first authors of the study. They suspect that there are

786
00:42:44,440 --> 00:42:46,560
Speaker 1: more cases like this out in nature. They just have

787
00:42:46,640 --> 00:42:48,600
Speaker 1: to find them. And if you're interested, the study is

788
00:42:48,640 --> 00:42:53,719
Speaker 1: called Danger may Enhance Communication Predator calls alert females to

789
00:42:53,880 --> 00:42:58,279
Speaker 1: male displays. Alright, so there you have it. Now, based

790
00:42:58,320 --> 00:43:00,400
Speaker 1: on everything we've we've told you here, I feel like

791
00:43:00,440 --> 00:43:01,799
Speaker 1: this would be a good time for us to give

792
00:43:01,840 --> 00:43:05,560
Speaker 1: you some some recommendations. If you're looking for a manipulative

793
00:43:06,040 --> 00:43:09,759
Speaker 1: dating movie experience, you want something you want to watch,

794
00:43:09,760 --> 00:43:13,799
Speaker 1: some horror that would perhaps have some romantic results, though

795
00:43:13,840 --> 00:43:18,040
Speaker 1: we by no means guarantee results. Yeah, if you want

796
00:43:18,040 --> 00:43:23,480
Speaker 1: to try to scare the pants literally off of your date, uh,

797
00:43:23,520 --> 00:43:29,200
Speaker 1: no matter whether gender. Okay, my picks love actually what

798
00:43:29,600 --> 00:43:36,799
Speaker 1: the notebook? What on Golden Pond chilling? They're those are

799
00:43:36,800 --> 00:43:39,000
Speaker 1: not horror movies, Julie, I've seen none of them. No,

800
00:43:39,120 --> 00:43:41,400
Speaker 1: I take that back, I have seen love actually and

801
00:43:41,480 --> 00:43:45,719
Speaker 1: it was a horrifying experience. Yeah, so that's your Rationaley,

802
00:43:45,760 --> 00:43:50,200
Speaker 1: this will this will frighten people into gene fond It

803
00:43:50,280 --> 00:43:55,080
Speaker 1: is just terrifying. She is She's an excellent actor, great

804
00:43:55,120 --> 00:43:59,000
Speaker 1: in Barbarrella, but terrifying in on Golden Pond. That's all

805
00:43:59,000 --> 00:44:04,879
Speaker 1: I'm saying. Okay, Well, my recommendations um would be High

806
00:44:04,960 --> 00:44:09,680
Speaker 1: Tension two thousand three horror film from Alexandra Aja. And

807
00:44:09,960 --> 00:44:12,760
Speaker 1: this one is interesting. It has it has a twist

808
00:44:12,760 --> 00:44:16,400
Speaker 1: that doesn't quite hold up to repeat viewings, but stylish,

809
00:44:16,440 --> 00:44:19,239
Speaker 1: really well done, and it plays with gender expectations in

810
00:44:19,320 --> 00:44:21,920
Speaker 1: kind of a unique way. And another film that came

811
00:44:21,960 --> 00:44:23,759
Speaker 1: to mind, and this was based on the fact that

812
00:44:24,360 --> 00:44:28,520
Speaker 1: in Sereno Whitney's article for Killer Film, she mentioned that

813
00:44:29,040 --> 00:44:30,920
Speaker 1: that it that at times like a horror movie can

814
00:44:30,960 --> 00:44:33,120
Speaker 1: be almost like going to a funeral, so after which

815
00:44:33,120 --> 00:44:35,640
Speaker 1: you're so disturbed that you you kind of have to

816
00:44:35,640 --> 00:44:37,960
Speaker 1: cling to other, to to another person, like you need

817
00:44:38,360 --> 00:44:41,560
Speaker 1: real human contact. You almost have to mourn for what

818
00:44:41,640 --> 00:44:45,680
Speaker 1: has happened. Um which would probably indicate either a really

819
00:44:45,680 --> 00:44:50,440
Speaker 1: good or really bad movie watching experience. So um Oculus

820
00:44:50,440 --> 00:44:53,239
Speaker 1: comes to mind. Two film about a haunted mirror from

821
00:44:53,440 --> 00:44:56,279
Speaker 1: Mike Flanagan. Uh. Not everybody loved it. I thought it

822
00:44:56,360 --> 00:44:58,320
Speaker 1: was really well crafted. I thought I did some wonderful

823
00:44:58,320 --> 00:45:01,759
Speaker 1: stuff with with the way Maria works and uh in

824
00:45:01,880 --> 00:45:04,680
Speaker 1: taking the past and the president mixing them together. But

825
00:45:04,760 --> 00:45:08,560
Speaker 1: it ultimately leaves you in such a devastated place because

826
00:45:08,560 --> 00:45:11,719
Speaker 1: you care about the characters and all of these these

827
00:45:11,760 --> 00:45:14,719
Speaker 1: horror movie events happen, and and at the end you

828
00:45:14,840 --> 00:45:17,880
Speaker 1: kind of needs somebody to hold. Indeed, I do stand

829
00:45:17,880 --> 00:45:20,880
Speaker 1: by the beast. I gotta say the seventies French one, Um,

830
00:45:20,920 --> 00:45:23,719
Speaker 1: it's campy. And if anybody goes out and they see

831
00:45:23,719 --> 00:45:26,759
Speaker 1: it on my recommendation, I apologize in advance for the

832
00:45:26,760 --> 00:45:30,120
Speaker 1: beast penis that I have to say. So warning may

833
00:45:30,120 --> 00:45:34,080
Speaker 1: contain beast penis. Yeah, exactly all right. As always, you

834
00:45:34,120 --> 00:45:37,319
Speaker 1: can find this and all the other podcast episodes on

835
00:45:37,320 --> 00:45:40,000
Speaker 1: our homepage Stuff to Blow your Mind dot com, and

836
00:45:40,200 --> 00:45:43,200
Speaker 1: I'll try to include links to related contents on that

837
00:45:43,320 --> 00:45:45,680
Speaker 1: landing page for this episode, as well as some outgoing

838
00:45:45,719 --> 00:45:49,400
Speaker 1: links to some of these resources that Julie made mention off.

839
00:45:49,719 --> 00:45:52,200
Speaker 1: Also on the website, you can find all of our videos,

840
00:45:52,239 --> 00:45:54,680
Speaker 1: are blog posts, and links out to our various social

841
00:45:54,719 --> 00:45:57,279
Speaker 1: media accounts all right, and if you have any thoughts

842
00:45:57,320 --> 00:45:59,000
Speaker 1: brewing about this, if you think this is just some

843
00:45:59,040 --> 00:46:01,759
Speaker 1: sort of hetero noi orm who we a relic of

844
00:46:01,800 --> 00:46:04,160
Speaker 1: the past, or if you think there's a basis to it,

845
00:46:04,400 --> 00:46:06,640
Speaker 1: let us know. You can do that by emailing us

846
00:46:06,760 --> 00:46:13,760
Speaker 1: at below the mind at how staff works dot com

847
00:46:13,800 --> 00:46:16,239
Speaker 1: for more on this and thousands of other topics. Does

848
00:46:16,280 --> 00:46:19,160
Speaker 1: it how staff works dot com