1 00:00:15,316 --> 00:00:22,956 Speaker 1: Pushkin. When the pandemic hit in twenty twenty and everything 2 00:00:22,996 --> 00:00:26,276 Speaker 1: shut down, hundreds of thousands of people in the US 3 00:00:26,316 --> 00:00:30,476 Speaker 1: reacted in a surprising way. They started new businesses. This 4 00:00:30,596 --> 00:00:33,756 Speaker 1: isn't just some anecdotal thing, right. You can see it 5 00:00:33,756 --> 00:00:36,236 Speaker 1: in the data. In twenty twenty, the rate of new 6 00:00:36,276 --> 00:00:39,636 Speaker 1: business formation went through the roof. Now two and a 7 00:00:39,676 --> 00:00:42,916 Speaker 1: half years later, the economy has reopened. Things are sort 8 00:00:42,956 --> 00:00:46,916 Speaker 1: of back to normal, but entrepreneurship hasn't died down that much. 9 00:00:47,236 --> 00:00:49,956 Speaker 1: The rate of new business formation is still way up 10 00:00:49,996 --> 00:00:52,556 Speaker 1: from where it was before the pandemic. In a world 11 00:00:52,596 --> 00:00:55,956 Speaker 1: that feels scarier and riskier than ever, people are more 12 00:00:55,996 --> 00:01:00,036 Speaker 1: willing than ever to bet on themselves. They're becoming entrepreneurs. 13 00:01:04,036 --> 00:01:06,596 Speaker 1: I'm Jacob Goldstein and this is What's Your Problem, the 14 00:01:06,636 --> 00:01:09,396 Speaker 1: show where entrepreneurs and engineers talk about how are going 15 00:01:09,396 --> 00:01:11,716 Speaker 1: to change the world once they solve a few problems. 16 00:01:11,996 --> 00:01:15,196 Speaker 1: My guest today is Harley Finkelsty, a man who may 17 00:01:15,236 --> 00:01:18,596 Speaker 1: love entrepreneurship more than anyone I have ever met, and 18 00:01:18,676 --> 00:01:21,116 Speaker 1: this trade is a good fit for his job. Harley 19 00:01:21,236 --> 00:01:26,236 Speaker 1: is the president of Shopify. Shopify started out building software 20 00:01:26,276 --> 00:01:29,836 Speaker 1: that makes it easy for people to start online stores. Today, 21 00:01:29,956 --> 00:01:32,756 Speaker 1: millions of stores use Shopify, and the company is trying 22 00:01:32,756 --> 00:01:35,436 Speaker 1: to solve a new problem. How do you aggregate the 23 00:01:35,476 --> 00:01:38,636 Speaker 1: power of millions of small businesses to help them compete 24 00:01:38,676 --> 00:01:44,676 Speaker 1: against giants. My conversation with Harley started with the beginnings 25 00:01:44,676 --> 00:01:46,996 Speaker 1: of his life as an entrepreneur. He was a kid 26 00:01:47,036 --> 00:01:50,036 Speaker 1: who was so impressed by the DJs he saw playing 27 00:01:50,076 --> 00:01:52,996 Speaker 1: at his friends bar Mitzvah's that he started his own 28 00:01:53,156 --> 00:01:56,716 Speaker 1: DJ company. I'm started at DJ company because I want 29 00:01:56,756 --> 00:02:00,316 Speaker 1: to be at DJ and nobody would hire me. And 30 00:02:00,436 --> 00:02:04,036 Speaker 1: how old were uh? And it was my dad that said, 31 00:02:04,076 --> 00:02:06,316 Speaker 1: why don't you start your own company? High yourself? And 32 00:02:06,356 --> 00:02:08,036 Speaker 1: so I did? And actually when my dad did my 33 00:02:08,076 --> 00:02:10,076 Speaker 1: dad and have my parents very much money, but my 34 00:02:10,116 --> 00:02:12,076 Speaker 1: dad made me a business card and the business card 35 00:02:12,116 --> 00:02:16,276 Speaker 1: had said Harley Finkelstein DJ. And that was the endorsement 36 00:02:16,396 --> 00:02:18,036 Speaker 1: or the validation, whatever you want to call it. That 37 00:02:18,076 --> 00:02:21,276 Speaker 1: I needed to have the hutzpah or audacity to walk 38 00:02:21,316 --> 00:02:23,636 Speaker 1: next door to my neighbor and say, um, can I 39 00:02:23,716 --> 00:02:27,156 Speaker 1: DJ your son's bar Mitza and what they say? They 40 00:02:27,196 --> 00:02:31,476 Speaker 1: said no? And so then I mean, were you always 41 00:02:31,516 --> 00:02:33,556 Speaker 1: starting companies? Was it just can can you draw? A 42 00:02:33,556 --> 00:02:35,956 Speaker 1: line from there to starting a T shirt company when 43 00:02:35,996 --> 00:02:39,036 Speaker 1: you're in college. Yeah. During during high school, um, I wasn't. 44 00:02:39,476 --> 00:02:41,876 Speaker 1: I wasn't really in sports. I wasn't really into like 45 00:02:42,036 --> 00:02:44,436 Speaker 1: you know, um different like school clubs. I was. I 46 00:02:44,436 --> 00:02:46,076 Speaker 1: was an entrepreneur and so I was always trying to 47 00:02:46,116 --> 00:02:48,116 Speaker 1: start different companies. I started a bunch of smaller ones 48 00:02:48,116 --> 00:02:50,596 Speaker 1: that didn't work out. Started a poker chip company, making 49 00:02:50,596 --> 00:02:52,756 Speaker 1: poker chips. I started a company that had was a 50 00:02:52,756 --> 00:02:56,036 Speaker 1: slipper company called Woolen Stock, didn't do very well. I 51 00:02:56,036 --> 00:02:58,316 Speaker 1: started a bunch of small, little side houses like that. 52 00:02:58,756 --> 00:03:00,876 Speaker 1: But it was only in college when I was I 53 00:03:00,916 --> 00:03:02,836 Speaker 1: went to McGill in two thousand and one where I 54 00:03:02,876 --> 00:03:05,996 Speaker 1: needed to actually start something for real because my mom 55 00:03:06,036 --> 00:03:08,396 Speaker 1: and sisters my dad was around anymore. Mom and sisters 56 00:03:08,436 --> 00:03:11,116 Speaker 1: needed needed the support financially. And that's when I started 57 00:03:11,116 --> 00:03:13,236 Speaker 1: making T shirts universities and that was really the first 58 00:03:13,276 --> 00:03:16,596 Speaker 1: business that made any real money. Can you give me? 59 00:03:16,636 --> 00:03:19,796 Speaker 1: I feel like there's this very like rom com meat 60 00:03:19,876 --> 00:03:23,796 Speaker 1: cute of how you get to shopify. There is I 61 00:03:24,076 --> 00:03:26,996 Speaker 1: don't know if it's rom Comms, it's a meat cute. 62 00:03:28,156 --> 00:03:30,476 Speaker 1: I moved to Ottawa in two thousand and five to 63 00:03:30,516 --> 00:03:32,396 Speaker 1: go to law school, not to become a lawyer, but 64 00:03:32,516 --> 00:03:36,356 Speaker 1: to become a better entrepreneur. Ottawa, Canada. That's right, yeah. 65 00:03:36,516 --> 00:03:39,676 Speaker 1: Mentor of mine told me the teacher business was cute 66 00:03:40,596 --> 00:03:43,356 Speaker 1: but had never really had any real potential of scale, 67 00:03:43,756 --> 00:03:45,396 Speaker 1: and he was teaching law the next year at the 68 00:03:45,436 --> 00:03:47,996 Speaker 1: University of Ottawa as a guest lecturer. Convinced me that 69 00:03:48,116 --> 00:03:51,836 Speaker 1: law school might be like finishing school for entrepreneurship, and 70 00:03:51,916 --> 00:03:54,276 Speaker 1: it very much. Was moved to Ottawa, Canada in two 71 00:03:54,276 --> 00:03:56,636 Speaker 1: thousand and five, had no friends, had no family there, 72 00:03:57,276 --> 00:04:00,196 Speaker 1: asked where the entrepreneurs hung out and was directed to 73 00:04:00,236 --> 00:04:02,756 Speaker 1: a coffee shop in a small little town area of 74 00:04:02,796 --> 00:04:05,236 Speaker 1: Ottawa called the Glebe and I walk in. There were 75 00:04:05,276 --> 00:04:08,236 Speaker 1: five other entrepreneurs and one of those entrepreneurs was this 76 00:04:08,276 --> 00:04:11,996 Speaker 1: brilliant programmer name Tobias lute K, and he just moved 77 00:04:11,996 --> 00:04:14,636 Speaker 1: to Canada a year or two earlier because he met 78 00:04:14,676 --> 00:04:18,036 Speaker 1: a girl in Canada and couldn't work because he didn't 79 00:04:18,036 --> 00:04:21,316 Speaker 1: have his working papers. So started a business selling snowboards 80 00:04:21,356 --> 00:04:24,076 Speaker 1: on the internet. And in two thousand and four, there 81 00:04:24,156 --> 00:04:26,116 Speaker 1: was two ways to sell a product on the internet. 82 00:04:26,956 --> 00:04:31,156 Speaker 1: You either posted your products on a marketplace, or you 83 00:04:31,276 --> 00:04:34,596 Speaker 1: paid some big enterprise software company millions of dollars total 84 00:04:34,876 --> 00:04:39,116 Speaker 1: marketplace like eBay, or was Amazon market Amazon wasn't really marketplace, 85 00:04:39,116 --> 00:04:41,436 Speaker 1: so basically eBay. There was a couple others like that, 86 00:04:41,716 --> 00:04:44,796 Speaker 1: but but eBay, that's exactly right. The alternative was you 87 00:04:44,876 --> 00:04:48,396 Speaker 1: would you would go and spend a million dollars with 88 00:04:48,516 --> 00:04:52,716 Speaker 1: IBM they had a product called WebSphere or ATG or SAP, 89 00:04:52,996 --> 00:04:56,076 Speaker 1: these big companies, and he didn't have a million dollars. 90 00:04:56,236 --> 00:04:57,676 Speaker 1: So you wrote a piece of software to sell these 91 00:04:57,676 --> 00:05:01,116 Speaker 1: snowboards and very quickly realized that other people may also 92 00:05:01,356 --> 00:05:03,116 Speaker 1: want to use the software to sell their own products. 93 00:05:03,396 --> 00:05:04,996 Speaker 1: And I was one of those first people. I became 94 00:05:04,996 --> 00:05:07,596 Speaker 1: one of the first merchants on Shopify, and I moved 95 00:05:07,636 --> 00:05:10,316 Speaker 1: my T shirt business to Shopify in two thousand and six. 96 00:05:10,596 --> 00:05:11,996 Speaker 1: And so in two thousand and nine I called Toby 97 00:05:11,996 --> 00:05:13,356 Speaker 1: and said, I'd love to join you in a small 98 00:05:13,396 --> 00:05:15,796 Speaker 1: handful of other people and help you build this company 99 00:05:16,116 --> 00:05:18,356 Speaker 1: and make it easier for more people to try their 100 00:05:18,356 --> 00:05:21,156 Speaker 1: hand in entrepreneurship. And I was about twelve or thirteen 101 00:05:21,196 --> 00:05:27,836 Speaker 1: years ago. Great and so Shopify now is giant, right, 102 00:05:28,556 --> 00:05:30,756 Speaker 1: And you know, It's interesting because I feel like for 103 00:05:32,076 --> 00:05:35,756 Speaker 1: most people, Shopify is invisible. It's maybe like the way 104 00:05:36,076 --> 00:05:39,116 Speaker 1: you know, Intel was in nineteen ninety before they started 105 00:05:39,156 --> 00:05:41,916 Speaker 1: putting their name on every computer or something. Shopify is 106 00:05:41,956 --> 00:05:43,796 Speaker 1: the thing behind the thing. So it's I mean, it 107 00:05:43,876 --> 00:05:47,356 Speaker 1: seems like pretty close to if you've bought something online 108 00:05:47,756 --> 00:05:50,636 Speaker 1: and it wasn't Amazon, and it wasn't Walmart, it was 109 00:05:50,636 --> 00:05:53,996 Speaker 1: probably a Shopify store, Right, there's a good chance it's 110 00:05:54,036 --> 00:05:58,396 Speaker 1: a store that's running Shopify. But just so briefly, like, 111 00:05:58,476 --> 00:06:01,756 Speaker 1: what's the briefest version of what is Shopify. Shopify is 112 00:06:01,756 --> 00:06:04,516 Speaker 1: the easiest way to sell a product to a consumer, 113 00:06:04,716 --> 00:06:07,556 Speaker 1: and the vast majority of our merchants uses to sell online. 114 00:06:07,676 --> 00:06:10,076 Speaker 1: And as we've grown, we're now ten percent of all 115 00:06:10,076 --> 00:06:12,356 Speaker 1: e commerce in the US. As we've grown, one of 116 00:06:12,396 --> 00:06:13,876 Speaker 1: the things we've also done is try to figure out 117 00:06:13,956 --> 00:06:16,876 Speaker 1: what are the other elements of starting and running and 118 00:06:16,876 --> 00:06:22,636 Speaker 1: scaling a business that is difficult. So whether it's accepting payments, 119 00:06:22,916 --> 00:06:26,156 Speaker 1: or it's shipping, or it's raising money having capital, we've 120 00:06:26,156 --> 00:06:28,636 Speaker 1: gone ahead and gone to these other we call merchant solutions. 121 00:06:28,916 --> 00:06:30,556 Speaker 1: And what we're trying to do is we're trying to 122 00:06:30,636 --> 00:06:33,836 Speaker 1: use our size, our economy of scale being this ten 123 00:06:33,876 --> 00:06:36,356 Speaker 1: percent of all e commerce, which technically, if we were 124 00:06:36,396 --> 00:06:38,876 Speaker 1: a retailer, we would be the second largest online retailer 125 00:06:38,876 --> 00:06:42,756 Speaker 1: in America just given our sales volume. So companies using 126 00:06:42,756 --> 00:06:47,636 Speaker 1: Shopify sell more stuff than anybody else online except Amazon. 127 00:06:47,676 --> 00:06:49,836 Speaker 1: That's right, Yeah, that's exactly right. So if you compared 128 00:06:49,876 --> 00:06:52,196 Speaker 1: to Target, for example, or compared to best Buy, Shopify 129 00:06:52,196 --> 00:06:54,636 Speaker 1: and aggregate store sells more than those places. So when 130 00:06:54,676 --> 00:06:57,276 Speaker 1: we go to negotiate rates on payments or on shipping 131 00:06:57,556 --> 00:07:00,796 Speaker 1: or on capital, we're doing so as effectively the second 132 00:07:00,836 --> 00:07:03,476 Speaker 1: largest online retailer in America. And then we give those 133 00:07:03,476 --> 00:07:06,396 Speaker 1: economies of scale directly to the entrepreneurs, and we think 134 00:07:06,396 --> 00:07:09,316 Speaker 1: that's what really helps them level the playing field, like 135 00:07:09,556 --> 00:07:13,196 Speaker 1: get a sense of the scope of what you do. 136 00:07:13,316 --> 00:07:16,796 Speaker 1: I thought it would be useful to to just talk 137 00:07:16,796 --> 00:07:19,796 Speaker 1: through an example. Sure, right, so I have this podcast 138 00:07:19,836 --> 00:07:22,556 Speaker 1: it's called What's Your Problem? And like we don't have 139 00:07:22,596 --> 00:07:25,796 Speaker 1: any merch why not? Why not? Indeed? Yeah, so let's 140 00:07:26,036 --> 00:07:28,716 Speaker 1: white T shirts or black T shirts? Sure? Or like 141 00:07:28,876 --> 00:07:30,836 Speaker 1: we could have fun with it, right, we could like 142 00:07:31,036 --> 00:07:33,436 Speaker 1: have like a magic eight ball that says, what's your problem? 143 00:07:33,436 --> 00:07:36,676 Speaker 1: And it has you know answers, you're you're not grinding 144 00:07:36,716 --> 00:07:39,316 Speaker 1: hard enough, or you haven't found product market fit or whatever. 145 00:07:40,156 --> 00:07:43,436 Speaker 1: So say I come to shop, if I sign up 146 00:07:43,436 --> 00:07:45,756 Speaker 1: for shop, if I like, what is the set of 147 00:07:45,796 --> 00:07:48,196 Speaker 1: things you can do for me? Yeah, so you come 148 00:07:48,236 --> 00:07:51,556 Speaker 1: to shop fl dot com and for twenty nine dollars 149 00:07:51,596 --> 00:07:53,276 Speaker 1: you can se a beautiful online store. You can pick 150 00:07:53,316 --> 00:07:55,396 Speaker 1: a theme, or you can design your own theme, and 151 00:07:55,476 --> 00:07:57,436 Speaker 1: you can start adding products. You can say I'm going 152 00:07:57,436 --> 00:07:59,356 Speaker 1: to add this hat or this T shirt, this water bottle, 153 00:07:59,476 --> 00:08:01,916 Speaker 1: or you can in fact, if you if you're not 154 00:08:01,996 --> 00:08:05,196 Speaker 1: sure exactly what's going to resonate ironically around the product 155 00:08:05,236 --> 00:08:07,916 Speaker 1: market fit example you gave, you can actually do something 156 00:08:07,956 --> 00:08:10,156 Speaker 1: called print on demand, where you actually put up a 157 00:08:10,156 --> 00:08:12,316 Speaker 1: bunch of shirts without even making those shirts yet, and 158 00:08:12,356 --> 00:08:14,876 Speaker 1: the ones that sell will get printed automatically and then 159 00:08:14,956 --> 00:08:17,356 Speaker 1: drop shipped to your to the consumer. But you come on, 160 00:08:17,396 --> 00:08:19,556 Speaker 1: you build this beautiful store in a matter of an hour. 161 00:08:19,716 --> 00:08:22,396 Speaker 1: You have you know, Jacobs merch dot com all set up. 162 00:08:22,436 --> 00:08:25,316 Speaker 1: What's your problem and what com? Okay, what's your problem? Sure? Um, 163 00:08:25,516 --> 00:08:27,396 Speaker 1: what's your problem? Dot com? Well, the ways that taken 164 00:08:27,956 --> 00:08:30,916 Speaker 1: I'm sure it is okay, problem dot dot com or 165 00:08:31,036 --> 00:08:33,476 Speaker 1: like dot okay that's good, or dot co or something 166 00:08:33,516 --> 00:08:36,796 Speaker 1: like that. Um, And so you set up your online store, 167 00:08:36,836 --> 00:08:39,556 Speaker 1: you add inventory, you set up your payment gateway, and 168 00:08:39,596 --> 00:08:41,876 Speaker 1: now you're ready to sell. Now you can launch your 169 00:08:41,876 --> 00:08:44,676 Speaker 1: marketing campaign. You can post ads on Facebook or Instagram 170 00:08:44,796 --> 00:08:46,916 Speaker 1: or Google from there, or TikTok or snapped it or 171 00:08:46,956 --> 00:08:49,236 Speaker 1: anywhere for that matter. When orders come in, you go 172 00:08:49,276 --> 00:08:51,396 Speaker 1: to your shop fight admin and that really is your 173 00:08:51,436 --> 00:08:54,396 Speaker 1: central retail operating system. That's sort of the the the 174 00:08:54,956 --> 00:08:57,716 Speaker 1: central nervous system of your of your business. And orders 175 00:08:57,756 --> 00:08:59,996 Speaker 1: come in, you can fulfill them. You can use Shopify 176 00:09:00,076 --> 00:09:02,356 Speaker 1: to do fulfillment. You can use us to buy shipping 177 00:09:02,396 --> 00:09:05,156 Speaker 1: labels if you want to see where your traffic is 178 00:09:05,156 --> 00:09:06,916 Speaker 1: coming from. And you want to understand, I just I 179 00:09:06,996 --> 00:09:08,796 Speaker 1: just want to slow down a little bit there. So 180 00:09:09,196 --> 00:09:11,436 Speaker 1: when you say I can use shopify to do fulfillment, 181 00:09:11,556 --> 00:09:14,436 Speaker 1: this is like new ish for you. Right, stuff you 182 00:09:14,476 --> 00:09:17,636 Speaker 1: described up until then it feels like sort of Shopify classic. Right, 183 00:09:17,676 --> 00:09:20,156 Speaker 1: It's like all the online stuff, it's all the just 184 00:09:20,276 --> 00:09:22,596 Speaker 1: software stuff. And I feel like there is this shift 185 00:09:22,636 --> 00:09:26,036 Speaker 1: you're making now into the physical world and a number 186 00:09:26,076 --> 00:09:27,956 Speaker 1: of dimensions, right, And fulfillment is a piece of that. 187 00:09:27,996 --> 00:09:30,756 Speaker 1: You had an acquisition last year, right, Right, So fulfillment 188 00:09:30,796 --> 00:09:34,676 Speaker 1: seems obviously it's hard to write software. But software it's 189 00:09:34,676 --> 00:09:36,796 Speaker 1: like famously a good business. Right, You're write the software 190 00:09:36,836 --> 00:09:38,716 Speaker 1: once and then you can sell it as many times 191 00:09:38,716 --> 00:09:42,276 Speaker 1: you want. There's no marginal cost. Fulfillment seems harder if 192 00:09:42,396 --> 00:09:44,476 Speaker 1: I dare say so, I mean, tell me about getting 193 00:09:44,476 --> 00:09:45,836 Speaker 1: into that side of the business. So what does it 194 00:09:45,836 --> 00:09:47,396 Speaker 1: mean that you can do my fulfilm? Yeah? Sure, So 195 00:09:47,596 --> 00:09:48,876 Speaker 1: just take a step back for a second. While the 196 00:09:48,916 --> 00:09:51,236 Speaker 1: Internet sort of democratize a lot of things, the one 197 00:09:51,236 --> 00:09:53,356 Speaker 1: thing you didn't really do very well was help with 198 00:09:53,676 --> 00:09:56,476 Speaker 1: sort of you know, atoms where software's bits and bites 199 00:09:56,516 --> 00:09:59,876 Speaker 1: atoms and moving product that didn't actually get better through 200 00:09:59,876 --> 00:10:02,596 Speaker 1: the advent of the Internet. But going back to that 201 00:10:02,636 --> 00:10:05,156 Speaker 1: conversation we were having a few minutes ago, because we 202 00:10:05,236 --> 00:10:07,476 Speaker 1: now have such scale, because we are ten percent of 203 00:10:07,516 --> 00:10:09,876 Speaker 1: all e commerce in the US, we thought about this. 204 00:10:09,876 --> 00:10:12,036 Speaker 1: We're like, well, what if we can actually help small 205 00:10:12,076 --> 00:10:15,116 Speaker 1: businesses and larger businesses with fulfillment, And so we began 206 00:10:15,156 --> 00:10:17,596 Speaker 1: to create this network of third party warehouses where we 207 00:10:17,676 --> 00:10:20,636 Speaker 1: tie them together using our software. It's called FMS, fulfillment 208 00:10:20,636 --> 00:10:25,036 Speaker 1: management software, and any any third party logistics company can 209 00:10:25,116 --> 00:10:27,516 Speaker 1: apply to be part of this logistics network. And third 210 00:10:27,556 --> 00:10:30,476 Speaker 1: party logistics is another giant kind of behind the curtain, 211 00:10:30,556 --> 00:10:33,436 Speaker 1: and exactly it's it's who ships you everything. But the 212 00:10:33,516 --> 00:10:36,196 Speaker 1: idea is not necessarily that we wanted to get into logistics. 213 00:10:36,356 --> 00:10:38,476 Speaker 1: It's that it's one of those barriers to success that 214 00:10:38,516 --> 00:10:41,756 Speaker 1: we thought we can play a role in. So I'm curious, 215 00:10:42,196 --> 00:10:46,596 Speaker 1: as you're expanding into these different parts of business, basically, 216 00:10:47,796 --> 00:10:50,956 Speaker 1: what's what's been particularly hard? What are you still trying 217 00:10:50,956 --> 00:10:54,076 Speaker 1: to figure out how to do? What went wrong? What 218 00:10:54,156 --> 00:10:56,916 Speaker 1: was harder than you expected? Um, Initially we decided we 219 00:10:56,956 --> 00:10:58,716 Speaker 1: don't want to build our own warehouses. It's just the 220 00:10:58,996 --> 00:11:01,516 Speaker 1: business model that we are using is different than Amazon. 221 00:11:01,796 --> 00:11:04,036 Speaker 1: We are not doing one day delivery. We don't think 222 00:11:04,076 --> 00:11:07,716 Speaker 1: we need to own everything ourselves, and so fundamental we thought, hey, 223 00:11:07,716 --> 00:11:09,836 Speaker 1: there are all these warehouses all over the that are empty. 224 00:11:09,956 --> 00:11:11,356 Speaker 1: What if we made them part of the network and 225 00:11:11,876 --> 00:11:16,276 Speaker 1: effectively configured them using our software. Not every partner warehouse 226 00:11:16,436 --> 00:11:18,836 Speaker 1: was very good, some of them actually were really bad. 227 00:11:19,196 --> 00:11:21,356 Speaker 1: But because we were using a network of warehouses, and 228 00:11:21,436 --> 00:11:24,676 Speaker 1: because Shopify's brand was the thing connecting all these things, 229 00:11:24,676 --> 00:11:27,676 Speaker 1: even if it was a third party warehouse, we were responsible. 230 00:11:27,996 --> 00:11:30,156 Speaker 1: And in the first couple of in the first year 231 00:11:30,236 --> 00:11:33,476 Speaker 1: or so of fulfillment and shipping a Shopify, we really 232 00:11:33,516 --> 00:11:35,276 Speaker 1: noticed that some of the warehouses were just not hitting 233 00:11:35,276 --> 00:11:37,596 Speaker 1: a quality control standard and so we had to take 234 00:11:37,596 --> 00:11:39,996 Speaker 1: some of them offline. And that was and does that mean, 235 00:11:40,036 --> 00:11:42,276 Speaker 1: I mean, does that mean basically, customers don't get stuff 236 00:11:42,276 --> 00:11:44,236 Speaker 1: when they are told they'll get stuff, or it's broken. 237 00:11:44,276 --> 00:11:46,236 Speaker 1: It could be accommodation thing. So if they're doing some 238 00:11:46,276 --> 00:11:48,516 Speaker 1: sort of look what's called custom kitting, where they need 239 00:11:48,556 --> 00:11:50,556 Speaker 1: to sort of the product hast to look. Let's say 240 00:11:50,556 --> 00:11:52,316 Speaker 1: you want to, you know, for your merch company, you 241 00:11:52,356 --> 00:11:54,236 Speaker 1: want to send out your box with stickers on it. 242 00:11:54,396 --> 00:11:56,676 Speaker 1: Maybe the stickers are misplaced, Maybe it doesn't get there 243 00:11:56,716 --> 00:11:58,676 Speaker 1: on time, Maybe it's the wrong product, maybe it's broken. 244 00:11:58,796 --> 00:12:00,836 Speaker 1: It could be a combination of all those things. But 245 00:12:00,876 --> 00:12:02,636 Speaker 1: we actually had to pull some partners out of the 246 00:12:02,716 --> 00:12:05,876 Speaker 1: network because they weren't hitting a certain quality control thing. Which, again, 247 00:12:05,956 --> 00:12:09,116 Speaker 1: even though we're leveraging third parties from the merchant perspective, 248 00:12:09,156 --> 00:12:11,636 Speaker 1: to the millions of merchants you shopify, they don't really 249 00:12:11,636 --> 00:12:14,436 Speaker 1: care who salt it is because customers it don't care. 250 00:12:14,476 --> 00:12:17,156 Speaker 1: It's always Shopify's faults. Yeah, and that was really really 251 00:12:17,236 --> 00:12:20,436 Speaker 1: challenging for us. I mean it is extraordinary, Like fundamentally 252 00:12:20,436 --> 00:12:24,636 Speaker 1: there you're competing against Amazon, right, and like Amazon is 253 00:12:24,676 --> 00:12:28,196 Speaker 1: so good at that, it's unbelievable. Like I'm old enough 254 00:12:28,196 --> 00:12:31,796 Speaker 1: to remember ordering things before Amazon existed, right, and they're 255 00:12:31,876 --> 00:12:34,356 Speaker 1: so much better than anything that came before. And you 256 00:12:34,396 --> 00:12:36,796 Speaker 1: have to be at least that good. Yeah, And so 257 00:12:37,236 --> 00:12:39,956 Speaker 1: I respectfully disagree. I don't think we actually have to 258 00:12:39,956 --> 00:12:41,756 Speaker 1: be We have to be, we have to be as 259 00:12:41,836 --> 00:12:43,316 Speaker 1: good a thing we do, but we don't have to 260 00:12:43,316 --> 00:12:45,196 Speaker 1: do is we don't have to focus on like like 261 00:12:45,236 --> 00:12:47,196 Speaker 1: this thing, this one day to delivery thing is just 262 00:12:47,276 --> 00:12:49,916 Speaker 1: not that important for most merchants and most consumers. You 263 00:12:49,956 --> 00:12:52,996 Speaker 1: have to be that reliable and that good exactly doing 264 00:12:53,036 --> 00:12:56,436 Speaker 1: what you'll say you'll do. It's like Amazon is extraordinary 265 00:12:56,556 --> 00:13:00,156 Speaker 1: at that. For Shopify, people's livelihoods are at stake. And 266 00:13:00,196 --> 00:13:03,036 Speaker 1: because people's livelihoods are at stake Shopify, for most of 267 00:13:03,076 --> 00:13:05,196 Speaker 1: the merchants on shop for the millions of merchants, we 268 00:13:05,236 --> 00:13:07,556 Speaker 1: are the most important piece of software they use and 269 00:13:07,596 --> 00:13:09,636 Speaker 1: so the term it uses exactly the right one. We 270 00:13:09,756 --> 00:13:12,116 Speaker 1: have to be reliable and I think we've done that really, 271 00:13:12,116 --> 00:13:17,276 Speaker 1: really well. But but that is a constant challenge. After 272 00:13:17,316 --> 00:13:20,156 Speaker 1: the break probably talks about the challenges of growth and 273 00:13:20,316 --> 00:13:31,876 Speaker 1: of layoffs. Now back to the show, So what's what's 274 00:13:31,956 --> 00:13:34,716 Speaker 1: like the next thing you're trying to do? Like what 275 00:13:34,876 --> 00:13:36,516 Speaker 1: so that's what? So you you? I mean, do you 276 00:13:36,596 --> 00:13:39,956 Speaker 1: have the warehouse situation? Is that now that you've got 277 00:13:39,996 --> 00:13:42,556 Speaker 1: that's in a really good place, what's the new warehouse 278 00:13:42,596 --> 00:13:44,876 Speaker 1: problem for you? Yeah? And there's always new new sort 279 00:13:44,916 --> 00:13:47,156 Speaker 1: of merchant challenges to solve. I mean, anyone who's been 280 00:13:47,196 --> 00:13:50,956 Speaker 1: following the news knows that Apple has made advertising and 281 00:13:51,036 --> 00:13:54,396 Speaker 1: particularly privacy changes that make it more difficult to target 282 00:13:54,436 --> 00:13:59,036 Speaker 1: a particular consumer. So, for example, I love writing motorized skateboards. 283 00:13:59,036 --> 00:14:01,076 Speaker 1: I've been a motorise skateboard guy for a very very 284 00:14:01,076 --> 00:14:06,076 Speaker 1: long time. Um My interests are technology because you know, 285 00:14:06,076 --> 00:14:09,316 Speaker 1: I lead a technology company and skateboarding. And so if 286 00:14:09,316 --> 00:14:11,356 Speaker 1: you are boosted board or you're one Wheel, do you 287 00:14:11,356 --> 00:14:14,916 Speaker 1: know those companies? Yeah, the one Wheel is like the 288 00:14:14,956 --> 00:14:19,996 Speaker 1: guy on one it looks really cool. Yeah, it's like 289 00:14:19,996 --> 00:14:21,916 Speaker 1: a boost board it's just like a skateboard, but the 290 00:14:21,996 --> 00:14:24,436 Speaker 1: dude's not pushing exactly. It has motorized right, So if 291 00:14:24,436 --> 00:14:27,516 Speaker 1: you're a boosted board or you're one wheel the ven 292 00:14:27,556 --> 00:14:30,676 Speaker 1: diagram overlap of Harley's interest which is technology and skateboard, 293 00:14:30,756 --> 00:14:33,076 Speaker 1: I am the perfect ideal customer for it, so they 294 00:14:33,076 --> 00:14:35,116 Speaker 1: can target me really really well, Well, that has become 295 00:14:35,116 --> 00:14:36,996 Speaker 1: a lot more difficult now because of some of the 296 00:14:37,076 --> 00:14:40,596 Speaker 1: change that Apple has made, so UM what roads. Really 297 00:14:40,596 --> 00:14:42,716 Speaker 1: it's harder for them to target you on like Facebook. Yeah, 298 00:14:42,716 --> 00:14:46,116 Speaker 1: they can target because it's much harder to buy targeted 299 00:14:46,476 --> 00:14:49,036 Speaker 1: Facebook and Instagram ads. That's exactly right. So that has 300 00:14:49,076 --> 00:14:51,916 Speaker 1: made it more difficult, more challenging for small business to 301 00:14:52,196 --> 00:14:55,356 Speaker 1: find their their target customers. Well, we figured out was well, 302 00:14:55,396 --> 00:14:57,996 Speaker 1: if we look at um Shopify as a whole, we 303 00:14:58,036 --> 00:14:59,756 Speaker 1: actually have a lot of good indication, a lot of 304 00:14:59,756 --> 00:15:02,156 Speaker 1: good insight on the type of customers that might be 305 00:15:02,236 --> 00:15:04,916 Speaker 1: right for your particular product. So if you're on Shopify 306 00:15:05,196 --> 00:15:07,676 Speaker 1: and shopfy plus in particular, where this product is this 307 00:15:07,716 --> 00:15:10,036 Speaker 1: feature sits, you can say I want to send more 308 00:15:10,076 --> 00:15:11,996 Speaker 1: of these three products here, I have ten skews, but 309 00:15:11,996 --> 00:15:13,996 Speaker 1: I want to send more of these three skews, you 310 00:15:14,156 --> 00:15:17,556 Speaker 1: feed it into the audience's algorithm, we feed you back 311 00:15:17,596 --> 00:15:20,196 Speaker 1: with the sample audience or a lookalike audience. And now, 312 00:15:20,236 --> 00:15:22,356 Speaker 1: when you're buying ads on some of these ad platforms, 313 00:15:22,436 --> 00:15:25,076 Speaker 1: whether it's Facebook or Instagram or any the others Google 314 00:15:25,076 --> 00:15:27,756 Speaker 1: for example, you don't just upload your product description and 315 00:15:27,756 --> 00:15:30,756 Speaker 1: your product photography and your meta information. You also upload 316 00:15:30,836 --> 00:15:33,036 Speaker 1: this lookalike audience. And we know by doing so you 317 00:15:33,076 --> 00:15:35,116 Speaker 1: will get a higher return dance. And are you I mean, 318 00:15:35,116 --> 00:15:38,036 Speaker 1: that's sort of the kind of ad targeting version of 319 00:15:38,076 --> 00:15:42,556 Speaker 1: your big idea, which is aggregating, which is scale basically right, 320 00:15:42,556 --> 00:15:45,516 Speaker 1: it's bringing the power of scale to small businesses, right, 321 00:15:45,676 --> 00:15:47,596 Speaker 1: when that's the big idea. Yeah, when you combine a 322 00:15:47,676 --> 00:15:49,316 Speaker 1: lot of tiny little lights, you end up with the sun. 323 00:15:49,476 --> 00:15:52,356 Speaker 1: Is a question that I've heard, you know, but a 324 00:15:52,436 --> 00:15:55,036 Speaker 1: lot a lot of tints. But more importantly, think about 325 00:15:55,076 --> 00:15:57,116 Speaker 1: it this way. When you sell in a marketplace, if 326 00:15:57,116 --> 00:15:59,796 Speaker 1: you're a brand, you are able to leverage the economy 327 00:15:59,836 --> 00:16:02,396 Speaker 1: of scale of that market Sell on a marketplace like Amazon, 328 00:16:02,476 --> 00:16:04,596 Speaker 1: like any any Bay or something or Etsy or any 329 00:16:04,596 --> 00:16:06,516 Speaker 1: of those, you get to leverage the economy's a scale 330 00:16:06,556 --> 00:16:10,676 Speaker 1: of those marketplaces. When you build a custom online store 331 00:16:10,716 --> 00:16:13,716 Speaker 1: on your own, you get independence, right, you own your customer, 332 00:16:13,916 --> 00:16:16,796 Speaker 1: your customers, you own everything on Shopify, you get both. 333 00:16:16,836 --> 00:16:19,076 Speaker 1: You get independence and you get this massive economy as 334 00:16:19,116 --> 00:16:20,556 Speaker 1: a scale, and we think that makes us a really 335 00:16:20,636 --> 00:16:24,156 Speaker 1: unique company. You seem very confident. Actually you have a 336 00:16:24,276 --> 00:16:28,276 Speaker 1: very confident vibe. But I'm curious, like, what what are 337 00:16:28,276 --> 00:16:30,796 Speaker 1: you worried about? Right, you're running this big company. It's 338 00:16:30,836 --> 00:16:33,516 Speaker 1: been tough times in various ways. When you think about 339 00:16:33,516 --> 00:16:36,276 Speaker 1: the company, what worries you? A bunch of things. Um, 340 00:16:36,396 --> 00:16:39,516 Speaker 1: we're now you know, we have but ten thousand people 341 00:16:39,516 --> 00:16:42,556 Speaker 1: to work at the company today. That's that's a lot 342 00:16:42,556 --> 00:16:44,276 Speaker 1: of people making sure everyone's working at the right thing 343 00:16:44,316 --> 00:16:46,636 Speaker 1: at the right time. That is obviously you know, how 344 00:16:46,676 --> 00:16:49,196 Speaker 1: do you scale culture? That's one thing. The second thing 345 00:16:49,196 --> 00:16:51,356 Speaker 1: that I worry about is um I think that it 346 00:16:51,436 --> 00:16:53,836 Speaker 1: is getting harder for in some cases, for small businesses 347 00:16:54,116 --> 00:16:56,556 Speaker 1: to grow and to succeed. I think there's a lot 348 00:16:56,556 --> 00:16:59,596 Speaker 1: of aggregation happening, and I think that it's like I 349 00:16:59,636 --> 00:17:01,676 Speaker 1: think for as a consumer, I'll say that's not even 350 00:17:01,716 --> 00:17:04,196 Speaker 1: as a president Shopify, I think for retail to be 351 00:17:04,236 --> 00:17:06,956 Speaker 1: interesting and exciting, it needs to have more voices, not less, 352 00:17:07,196 --> 00:17:09,316 Speaker 1: and I think there are some times where I worry 353 00:17:09,316 --> 00:17:11,196 Speaker 1: about that whether or not we're all just going to 354 00:17:11,316 --> 00:17:14,356 Speaker 1: end up wearing the exact same basic thing. The other 355 00:17:14,396 --> 00:17:18,556 Speaker 1: one is, it's more about the macro environment, right, I mean, 356 00:17:19,756 --> 00:17:21,316 Speaker 1: your stock it's down a lot, like a lot of 357 00:17:21,316 --> 00:17:24,316 Speaker 1: other growth companies, and maybe more importantly, like a lot 358 00:17:24,356 --> 00:17:26,436 Speaker 1: of other growth companies, you had to lay off a 359 00:17:26,436 --> 00:17:28,516 Speaker 1: lot of people recently after sort of making a big 360 00:17:28,556 --> 00:17:30,916 Speaker 1: bet on growth. Tell me about that, I mean, tell 361 00:17:30,916 --> 00:17:32,396 Speaker 1: me about sort of the bet you made and what 362 00:17:32,516 --> 00:17:34,716 Speaker 1: worked out and what didn't work out. Yeah, I mean 363 00:17:34,716 --> 00:17:37,836 Speaker 1: that was one of the most challenging days of think 364 00:17:38,196 --> 00:17:40,116 Speaker 1: if any leader's life is to do layoffs, and we 365 00:17:40,196 --> 00:17:42,836 Speaker 1: lay off about ten percent of our team a couple 366 00:17:42,876 --> 00:17:47,556 Speaker 1: months ago. When the pandemics started, let's call it March 367 00:17:47,636 --> 00:17:51,196 Speaker 1: twenty twenty. March twenty twenty pandemic starts, all these physical 368 00:17:51,236 --> 00:17:54,236 Speaker 1: retailers have to shut down their stores, and most of 369 00:17:54,276 --> 00:17:57,036 Speaker 1: them did not have another channel to sell by, and 370 00:17:57,076 --> 00:17:59,556 Speaker 1: so their business went from whatever was doing to zero. 371 00:18:00,036 --> 00:18:02,036 Speaker 1: And we were really fortunate to be the recipients of 372 00:18:02,156 --> 00:18:05,396 Speaker 1: most of that business. Most of those retailers that shut 373 00:18:05,396 --> 00:18:08,916 Speaker 1: down their physical stores to move online, came to Shopify, 374 00:18:09,636 --> 00:18:12,436 Speaker 1: and very quickly they opened up these beautiful online stores 375 00:18:12,476 --> 00:18:14,596 Speaker 1: and started selling and in some cases, and we don't 376 00:18:14,596 --> 00:18:16,316 Speaker 1: take any credit for it, but we certainly, you know, 377 00:18:16,356 --> 00:18:21,636 Speaker 1: we helped ensure the business continued when as things continued 378 00:18:21,676 --> 00:18:23,796 Speaker 1: through the pandemic, it was clear that e commerce was 379 00:18:23,796 --> 00:18:26,076 Speaker 1: playing a much larger role, both in the lives of 380 00:18:26,116 --> 00:18:28,836 Speaker 1: consumers and also in the lives of retailers. There's a 381 00:18:28,956 --> 00:18:31,076 Speaker 1: there's an equation that a lot of people monitor, which 382 00:18:31,116 --> 00:18:34,116 Speaker 1: is e commerce as a percentage of total retail. So 383 00:18:34,156 --> 00:18:36,676 Speaker 1: the numerator in that equation is e commerce and the 384 00:18:36,756 --> 00:18:40,436 Speaker 1: denominator is all of retail. When the pandemic hit, two 385 00:18:40,476 --> 00:18:43,756 Speaker 1: things happened. E commerce went up, and the denominator went 386 00:18:43,796 --> 00:18:46,276 Speaker 1: down because you pulled out all physical retail. So it 387 00:18:46,316 --> 00:18:49,356 Speaker 1: looked for for some time that like e commerce was everything, 388 00:18:49,356 --> 00:18:51,756 Speaker 1: and it was. We knew that that was not going 389 00:18:51,756 --> 00:18:54,236 Speaker 1: to stay, but we did think that the growth rate 390 00:18:54,276 --> 00:18:56,956 Speaker 1: that we saw in twenty twenty twenty one was more 391 00:18:56,996 --> 00:18:59,316 Speaker 1: reflective of what it would be in the future. You 392 00:18:59,396 --> 00:19:01,996 Speaker 1: thought that pandemic era growth would persist, not just that 393 00:19:01,996 --> 00:19:03,876 Speaker 1: people would know, but that the growth rate yeah, we 394 00:19:04,356 --> 00:19:06,316 Speaker 1: we knew that the new baseline would stay, but we 395 00:19:06,356 --> 00:19:07,836 Speaker 1: also thought it would just it would just increase, and 396 00:19:07,916 --> 00:19:11,036 Speaker 1: so we staffed up a both support people and salespeople 397 00:19:11,036 --> 00:19:12,996 Speaker 1: and those are really the two groups that we've staffed up. 398 00:19:13,636 --> 00:19:15,316 Speaker 1: And then at the beginning of this year in twenty 399 00:19:15,436 --> 00:19:18,396 Speaker 1: twenty two, we realized that, okay, it looks like the 400 00:19:18,436 --> 00:19:20,636 Speaker 1: growth rate of e commerce is going to return to 401 00:19:20,676 --> 00:19:23,996 Speaker 1: a more normalized place circle like twenty nineteen, like before 402 00:19:24,036 --> 00:19:25,876 Speaker 1: the pandemic, or the growth rate's going to slow down. 403 00:19:25,916 --> 00:19:27,556 Speaker 1: The growth rate is gonna slow, but it I mean, 404 00:19:27,596 --> 00:19:29,636 Speaker 1: it's gonna slow to what it was pre pandemic, but 405 00:19:29,716 --> 00:19:32,076 Speaker 1: on a much larger base because the rest of the 406 00:19:32,076 --> 00:19:34,676 Speaker 1: e commerce, like adoption is not going to go away. 407 00:19:35,156 --> 00:19:37,276 Speaker 1: And so we you know, we had this insight and 408 00:19:37,276 --> 00:19:38,716 Speaker 1: we said, look, we took a bet that it was 409 00:19:38,716 --> 00:19:40,356 Speaker 1: going to the growth rate was gonna increase. It didn't 410 00:19:40,356 --> 00:19:42,276 Speaker 1: increase as much as we thought, although it did, it's 411 00:19:42,316 --> 00:19:44,516 Speaker 1: still quite high, and so we had to make those 412 00:19:44,596 --> 00:19:50,316 Speaker 1: changes and that was really really challenging. In a minute, 413 00:19:50,596 --> 00:19:55,196 Speaker 1: the lightning round including praise for micromanagers and the hardest 414 00:19:55,196 --> 00:20:06,396 Speaker 1: thing about being an entrepreneur. Okay, back to the show. 415 00:20:06,556 --> 00:20:09,836 Speaker 1: We're going to close with the Lightning Round. You were 416 00:20:10,436 --> 00:20:14,596 Speaker 1: our Mitzfit DJ Bar and Button MITSFJ. I was what's 417 00:20:14,636 --> 00:20:16,876 Speaker 1: the one song that's best for getting everybody on the 418 00:20:16,956 --> 00:20:22,956 Speaker 1: danceler September, Earthwinn and Fire. I heard another interview you 419 00:20:23,036 --> 00:20:27,076 Speaker 1: did where you sort of made the case for micromanaging, 420 00:20:27,476 --> 00:20:30,476 Speaker 1: and I loved it because it's it's nice and contrary. 421 00:20:30,516 --> 00:20:32,796 Speaker 1: It's like the backlash to the backlash. So so give 422 00:20:32,796 --> 00:20:36,076 Speaker 1: it to me. Give me the case in favor of micromanaging. 423 00:20:36,516 --> 00:20:39,236 Speaker 1: The best managers I know are able to work sort 424 00:20:39,276 --> 00:20:42,516 Speaker 1: of at the forty thousand foot view, set strategy, set 425 00:20:42,516 --> 00:20:45,076 Speaker 1: the direction, you know, make sure the people were in 426 00:20:45,076 --> 00:20:48,836 Speaker 1: the right in question. That's macromanaging, that's right. But also 427 00:20:49,036 --> 00:20:50,756 Speaker 1: sometimes you have to get to the details. And I 428 00:20:50,756 --> 00:20:53,196 Speaker 1: think the best leaders and managers I've ever I've ever 429 00:20:53,236 --> 00:20:55,956 Speaker 1: worked with, they get into details when they need to. 430 00:20:56,956 --> 00:20:59,596 Speaker 1: Some of the worst managers don't get into the details, 431 00:20:59,636 --> 00:21:01,156 Speaker 1: and they only sort of work at the forty thousand 432 00:21:01,156 --> 00:21:04,636 Speaker 1: foot view. And even Toby, like sometimes he writes code um. 433 00:21:04,796 --> 00:21:06,556 Speaker 1: There are times where I look at a press release, right, 434 00:21:06,556 --> 00:21:07,796 Speaker 1: I look at something that's about to go out, and 435 00:21:07,836 --> 00:21:10,716 Speaker 1: I rewrite the sentence word for word or you know, 436 00:21:10,796 --> 00:21:13,276 Speaker 1: wordsmith it myself, because I don't think it's good enough. 437 00:21:13,756 --> 00:21:15,516 Speaker 1: And I don't think that's a bad thing. I think 438 00:21:15,556 --> 00:21:18,476 Speaker 1: that there's this this hate on micro management, and I 439 00:21:18,476 --> 00:21:20,956 Speaker 1: don't really mean micro management like you need to you 440 00:21:20,996 --> 00:21:23,036 Speaker 1: don't trust the people that work for you. What I 441 00:21:23,076 --> 00:21:25,636 Speaker 1: mean is it is important for leaders to get into 442 00:21:25,636 --> 00:21:29,116 Speaker 1: the details when it calls for it. What's the best 443 00:21:29,116 --> 00:21:33,836 Speaker 1: thing about running a tech company in Ottawa, Canada? Less distraction? 444 00:21:34,796 --> 00:21:40,076 Speaker 1: What's the worst thing? Less inspiration? What's one thing I 445 00:21:40,116 --> 00:21:44,196 Speaker 1: should do if I'm in Ottawa in say January, skate 446 00:21:44,276 --> 00:21:46,876 Speaker 1: on the Rito Canal, the largest skating rink in the world. 447 00:21:47,236 --> 00:21:49,476 Speaker 1: That's a good one, and come for dinner in my house. Okay, 448 00:21:49,476 --> 00:21:52,996 Speaker 1: thank you? What in your experience has been the hardest 449 00:21:52,996 --> 00:21:58,716 Speaker 1: thing about being an entrepreneur? Running a company at scale 450 00:21:58,756 --> 00:22:03,156 Speaker 1: like Shopify forces you to get really really good at something. 451 00:22:03,356 --> 00:22:05,516 Speaker 1: It also makes you get really really good at being 452 00:22:05,516 --> 00:22:07,556 Speaker 1: self aware for the things you're not good at, and 453 00:22:07,676 --> 00:22:09,676 Speaker 1: either hiring people that are better at at it than 454 00:22:09,756 --> 00:22:13,916 Speaker 1: you are, or you know, I don't know, finding outsourcing it. 455 00:22:13,956 --> 00:22:16,236 Speaker 1: I guess is someone else. What part of your job 456 00:22:16,316 --> 00:22:18,116 Speaker 1: are you, in fact really good at and what part 457 00:22:18,116 --> 00:22:19,956 Speaker 1: of your job did you realize, Oh, I'm actually not 458 00:22:20,036 --> 00:22:21,676 Speaker 1: good at that, and I should get somebody else to 459 00:22:21,716 --> 00:22:22,956 Speaker 1: do that part of the job. Yeah, there was a 460 00:22:22,956 --> 00:22:25,236 Speaker 1: period of time that I was like chief operating officer 461 00:22:25,236 --> 00:22:27,396 Speaker 1: of Shopify, and I don't think I was especially good 462 00:22:27,436 --> 00:22:30,316 Speaker 1: traditional chief operating officer. I don't live in the details 463 00:22:30,356 --> 00:22:32,676 Speaker 1: all the time. I tend to think about like I 464 00:22:33,236 --> 00:22:35,596 Speaker 1: nack that into process. My favorite thing in the world 465 00:22:35,636 --> 00:22:37,316 Speaker 1: to do is to tell the reason I'm on this podcast. 466 00:22:37,356 --> 00:22:38,756 Speaker 1: Reason I love doing the show with you and I'll 467 00:22:38,756 --> 00:22:40,516 Speaker 1: stay on for five hours if you'll have me, is 468 00:22:40,556 --> 00:22:42,436 Speaker 1: I love telling the story of Shopify. I think the 469 00:22:42,436 --> 00:22:45,476 Speaker 1: story of Shopify is fundamentally the story of entrepreneurship. And 470 00:22:45,676 --> 00:22:47,596 Speaker 1: no matter where you come from, no matter who you are, 471 00:22:47,596 --> 00:22:50,276 Speaker 1: what your background is, entrepreneurship has touched most of us. 472 00:22:50,596 --> 00:22:53,076 Speaker 1: My parents are my father's an immigrant, my grandparents are 473 00:22:53,076 --> 00:22:56,636 Speaker 1: Holocaust survivors. They didn't call it entrepreneurship, but starting a 474 00:22:56,756 --> 00:22:59,316 Speaker 1: business was their means of survival. And the fact that 475 00:22:59,316 --> 00:23:01,316 Speaker 1: I get to spend my life now helping other people 476 00:23:01,596 --> 00:23:05,076 Speaker 1: find their own versions of success and survival is pretty 477 00:23:05,156 --> 00:23:07,556 Speaker 1: damn incredible. So is that the part of your job 478 00:23:07,556 --> 00:23:10,516 Speaker 1: that you like is telling the story? Yeah, yeah, by far. 479 00:23:13,476 --> 00:23:15,916 Speaker 1: What's one piece of advice you'd give to somebody trying 480 00:23:15,916 --> 00:23:19,156 Speaker 1: to solve a hard problem. I think a lot of 481 00:23:19,276 --> 00:23:24,036 Speaker 1: people that are trying to solve hard problems foundationally because 482 00:23:24,036 --> 00:23:26,836 Speaker 1: we're humane fear failure. One of the things that I 483 00:23:26,876 --> 00:23:28,556 Speaker 1: often think about is like, what is the cost of 484 00:23:28,596 --> 00:23:31,116 Speaker 1: failing at this particular thing. The cost of failing at 485 00:23:31,116 --> 00:23:32,876 Speaker 1: this particular thing is not that bad, you might as 486 00:23:32,916 --> 00:23:34,916 Speaker 1: well just go forward, full steam ahead. If the cost 487 00:23:34,956 --> 00:23:36,836 Speaker 1: of failure is, like, you know, your family won't eat 488 00:23:36,876 --> 00:23:38,756 Speaker 1: that night, or you can't pay your mortgage, that's something 489 00:23:38,756 --> 00:23:41,196 Speaker 1: you should consider. But I think that I'm just just 490 00:23:41,316 --> 00:23:43,156 Speaker 1: bringing back to entrepreneurship. I think that right now the 491 00:23:43,156 --> 00:23:45,956 Speaker 1: cost of failure of starting a business is as low 492 00:23:45,996 --> 00:23:48,116 Speaker 1: as has ever been in the history of the world. 493 00:23:48,396 --> 00:23:50,316 Speaker 1: And so if you try shopify store, or you try 494 00:23:50,316 --> 00:23:53,356 Speaker 1: starting a business selling lemonade in Manhattan and doesn't work, 495 00:23:53,556 --> 00:23:56,276 Speaker 1: maybe try hot dogs and maybe try pretzels after that. 496 00:23:56,276 --> 00:23:59,676 Speaker 1: That is something that wasn't available to previous generations. They 497 00:23:59,716 --> 00:24:01,996 Speaker 1: just there was too much leverage involved, and just to 498 00:24:02,276 --> 00:24:04,396 Speaker 1: flesh that out I mean the idea is, you can 499 00:24:04,396 --> 00:24:07,316 Speaker 1: start a business now with almost no money, right, with 500 00:24:07,356 --> 00:24:10,156 Speaker 1: almost no capital. You don't have to buy a factory. 501 00:24:10,236 --> 00:24:12,796 Speaker 1: You don't have to even buy a cart. You just 502 00:24:12,836 --> 00:24:14,756 Speaker 1: need a computer and an internet. You don't you don't 503 00:24:14,756 --> 00:24:17,996 Speaker 1: have to buy inventory. I feel like there is some sharp, 504 00:24:18,276 --> 00:24:21,836 Speaker 1: interesting entrepreneurship question that I could ask you that I 505 00:24:21,876 --> 00:24:28,516 Speaker 1: haven't quite nailed. What is it? Is entrepreneurship easy to 506 00:24:28,596 --> 00:24:32,716 Speaker 1: most entrepreneurs fail? Maybe will you give me a surprising answer? 507 00:24:32,956 --> 00:24:36,956 Speaker 1: Is entrepreneurship easy? No, that's not the surprising answer? Okay? Interesting? Well, 508 00:24:37,036 --> 00:24:40,276 Speaker 1: I mean I think that most people there's a glamorizing 509 00:24:40,276 --> 00:24:45,196 Speaker 1: of entrepreneurship generally. And I think the reason that I 510 00:24:46,036 --> 00:24:48,956 Speaker 1: thought that was the right question to ask was I actually, 511 00:24:49,036 --> 00:24:51,876 Speaker 1: I think entrepreneur is still very very difficult. It's slightly 512 00:24:51,916 --> 00:24:54,636 Speaker 1: less difficult now than it was, it's slightly less expensive 513 00:24:54,636 --> 00:24:57,116 Speaker 1: now than it was, but it's still very very difficult. 514 00:24:57,396 --> 00:25:00,836 Speaker 1: And so I think all the glamorizing, whether it's through 515 00:25:00,916 --> 00:25:02,796 Speaker 1: you know, my friend is Damon John, So I'll be 516 00:25:02,796 --> 00:25:04,676 Speaker 1: careful here, But like I think Shark Tank is an 517 00:25:04,676 --> 00:25:08,236 Speaker 1: amazing show, but it glamorized entrepreneurship it is really difficult. 518 00:25:08,276 --> 00:25:13,836 Speaker 1: What's the sort of under appreciated hard thing about being 519 00:25:13,876 --> 00:25:18,796 Speaker 1: an entrepreneur loneliness. It's a lonely it's it's it's a 520 00:25:18,796 --> 00:25:23,236 Speaker 1: lonely sport. And um, I don't think that gets talked 521 00:25:23,236 --> 00:25:25,276 Speaker 1: about it at all. I mean entrepreneurship, you're you are 522 00:25:25,356 --> 00:25:26,916 Speaker 1: by yourself for the most part. You may have a 523 00:25:26,956 --> 00:25:29,396 Speaker 1: co founder, but but most people don't and at least 524 00:25:29,436 --> 00:25:30,876 Speaker 1: when they get started, and even if you co found 525 00:25:30,916 --> 00:25:33,476 Speaker 1: or just the two of you, Um, there's a loneliness 526 00:25:33,516 --> 00:25:36,676 Speaker 1: to it. Um, anything else you want to talk about, 527 00:25:37,436 --> 00:25:39,476 Speaker 1: I'd like you to start a merch store. I'm not 528 00:25:39,556 --> 00:25:43,436 Speaker 1: out starting a merch store, Okay, I'm really not. I mean, 529 00:25:43,956 --> 00:25:48,116 Speaker 1: advertising is a is a tough business. It's very cyclically. 530 00:25:48,876 --> 00:25:50,796 Speaker 1: You know, you have a built in advertising like what 531 00:25:50,876 --> 00:25:53,316 Speaker 1: they call these viral loops. You kind of have a 532 00:25:53,316 --> 00:25:55,836 Speaker 1: built in viral loop here with your own too platform. 533 00:25:56,756 --> 00:25:58,876 Speaker 1: You have a podcast. I do think what's your problem? 534 00:25:58,956 --> 00:26:01,236 Speaker 1: I mean even just a shirt that says what's your problem? 535 00:26:01,236 --> 00:26:03,396 Speaker 1: I don't know if it's like too aggressive, Well, it 536 00:26:03,396 --> 00:26:05,876 Speaker 1: depends how how you say, Like it's like, what's your problem? 537 00:26:05,876 --> 00:26:07,756 Speaker 1: Winky face? And then you're another one also, which is 538 00:26:07,956 --> 00:26:10,436 Speaker 1: have you found product market fit it? Well, that is 539 00:26:10,476 --> 00:26:13,396 Speaker 1: a possible problem. I mean there's a list of possible problems. 540 00:26:13,436 --> 00:26:15,836 Speaker 1: Haven't found product market fit? Not grinding hard enough? I 541 00:26:15,836 --> 00:26:17,596 Speaker 1: don't know. You tell me what are other clients hate 542 00:26:17,636 --> 00:26:19,476 Speaker 1: that term? I don't know, like not not grinding card? 543 00:26:19,716 --> 00:26:22,036 Speaker 1: Give me a good one. A possible answers for the 544 00:26:22,156 --> 00:26:25,676 Speaker 1: entrepreneur of the question, what's your problem? Uh, what's your problem? Um? 545 00:26:25,876 --> 00:26:27,716 Speaker 1: Like if we make a like a magic eight ball, 546 00:26:27,756 --> 00:26:34,076 Speaker 1: has different answers come up. I can't get my shipping 547 00:26:34,076 --> 00:26:36,756 Speaker 1: done on time. I don't know. I'm sorry, Uh, it's 548 00:26:36,916 --> 00:26:38,996 Speaker 1: what don't Actually it's a very fascinating issue. You can 549 00:26:39,036 --> 00:26:41,116 Speaker 1: almost sort of do, like like there's a whole other 550 00:26:41,156 --> 00:26:44,196 Speaker 1: game version of of of your merch store, which is like, like, 551 00:26:44,236 --> 00:26:46,276 Speaker 1: what is your problem for business? Like you've a problem 552 00:26:46,276 --> 00:26:48,676 Speaker 1: with capital, You're a problem with like I can't accept payments, 553 00:26:48,836 --> 00:26:51,756 Speaker 1: or I'm selling I'm selling CBD and no payment gateway 554 00:26:51,796 --> 00:26:55,756 Speaker 1: will transact my product. Or I'm getting a bunch of returns, 555 00:26:56,356 --> 00:26:58,756 Speaker 1: or have a coupon code and it got leaked on 556 00:26:58,796 --> 00:27:01,436 Speaker 1: the internet on Reddit and now everyone's getting forty percent discounts. 557 00:27:01,436 --> 00:27:04,196 Speaker 1: I feel like we're designing a monopoly for the twenty 558 00:27:04,236 --> 00:27:06,196 Speaker 1: first century. Kind of cool. Yeah, I'm not out. I 559 00:27:06,676 --> 00:27:08,756 Speaker 1: really quite like it. It is interesting, though, I mean 560 00:27:08,836 --> 00:27:12,076 Speaker 1: this is total aside may be interesting. The merch store 561 00:27:12,116 --> 00:27:14,596 Speaker 1: thing is fascinating because if you go back and you 562 00:27:14,596 --> 00:27:17,876 Speaker 1: think about like merch ten years ago, twenty years ago, 563 00:27:18,316 --> 00:27:21,876 Speaker 1: there really was a sense like merch was promotional product. 564 00:27:22,916 --> 00:27:26,116 Speaker 1: And I think something is deeply changed around promotional around merch. 565 00:27:26,556 --> 00:27:29,076 Speaker 1: It's no longer promotional product. And the best example I 566 00:27:29,116 --> 00:27:32,516 Speaker 1: can give you is we've about twelve stores from the 567 00:27:32,636 --> 00:27:37,716 Speaker 1: Kardashian Jenner group, right, I mean there's amazing businesses from 568 00:27:37,756 --> 00:27:40,156 Speaker 1: you know, Kylie Cosmetics, too, Skins to Skims to Good 569 00:27:40,156 --> 00:27:43,676 Speaker 1: American across the board. And I remember when they were 570 00:27:43,676 --> 00:27:46,196 Speaker 1: first announcing that they were going to launch these stores, 571 00:27:46,356 --> 00:27:51,276 Speaker 1: and the initial reaction by the market, by the public was, yeah, 572 00:27:51,276 --> 00:27:53,596 Speaker 1: these are just going to be gimmicky kind of promotional things. 573 00:27:53,916 --> 00:27:56,876 Speaker 1: But actually, in some cases, like Kylie Cosmetics is now 574 00:27:56,876 --> 00:27:59,796 Speaker 1: one of the largest cosmetics companies on the planet. Jim 575 00:27:59,796 --> 00:28:01,676 Speaker 1: telling me I'm not thinking big enough. Well, I'm gonna 576 00:28:01,676 --> 00:28:04,476 Speaker 1: have to figure out a thing. I really believe it interesting. 577 00:28:05,116 --> 00:28:08,236 Speaker 1: Maybe a magic gate Ball. It's a fun one. Gate 578 00:28:08,556 --> 00:28:15,196 Speaker 1: is a fun one. Harley Finkelstein is the president of 579 00:28:15,196 --> 00:28:19,956 Speaker 1: shopifive I do want to sell some merch, so you 580 00:28:19,996 --> 00:28:22,436 Speaker 1: want to buy some If you want to magic eight 581 00:28:22,476 --> 00:28:25,876 Speaker 1: ball or something else, let us know. Email us at 582 00:28:25,916 --> 00:28:28,796 Speaker 1: problem at Pushkin dot fm, or you can find me 583 00:28:28,836 --> 00:28:32,396 Speaker 1: on Twitter at Jacob Goldstein. Today's show was produced by 584 00:28:32,516 --> 00:28:36,116 Speaker 1: Edith Russolo, edited by Robert Smith, and engineered by Amanda 585 00:28:36,196 --> 00:28:39,516 Speaker 1: k Wong. I'm Jacob Goldstein. We'll be back next week 586 00:28:39,516 --> 00:28:48,316 Speaker 1: with another episode of What's Your Problem.