1
00:00:05,559 --> 00:00:08,640
Speaker 1: Murder and manslaughter charges in the death of missing kayaker

2
00:00:08,720 --> 00:00:13,400
Speaker 1: Vincent via Fior. Prosecutors say is Beyonce Angelica Grasswald removed

3
00:00:13,400 --> 00:00:15,960
Speaker 1: a plug from via Fior's kayak so it would fill

4
00:00:16,000 --> 00:00:18,799
Speaker 1: with water. Sometimes people remove them because they're get in

5
00:00:18,840 --> 00:00:21,360
Speaker 1: the way. Sometimes they just fall out, and it's never

6
00:00:21,440 --> 00:00:24,759
Speaker 1: been a big deal, Prosecutors say. Graswald also tamped with

7
00:00:24,840 --> 00:00:27,360
Speaker 1: the paddle moved it away from Via Flora as he

8
00:00:27,440 --> 00:00:30,400
Speaker 1: struggled to stay afloat in the forty degree water. A

9
00:00:30,480 --> 00:00:34,720
Speaker 1: possible motive two hundred fifty thousand dollars in life insurance benefits.

10
00:00:35,600 --> 00:00:40,360
Speaker 1: This is carme stories with Nancy Grace Angelica Graswald pleaded

11
00:00:40,400 --> 00:00:44,000
Speaker 1: not guilty to murder and manslaughter. Graswald's defense team says

12
00:00:44,120 --> 00:00:47,400
Speaker 1: Viaforea died in a voting accident after the couple had

13
00:00:47,479 --> 00:00:50,479
Speaker 1: been drinking. The judge has set bail at three million

14
00:00:50,560 --> 00:00:55,320
Speaker 1: dollars cashed. Graswald continues to remain behind bars. She's facing

15
00:00:55,440 --> 00:01:03,400
Speaker 1: life in prison. He's dead. She is alive. Hmm, right there.

16
00:01:04,360 --> 00:01:06,240
Speaker 1: The hair on the back of my next stands up.

17
00:01:06,680 --> 00:01:12,600
Speaker 1: These two go out on a romantic kayaking trip and bam,

18
00:01:13,240 --> 00:01:18,240
Speaker 1: he ends up dead. And she miraculously survives. Of course,

19
00:01:18,360 --> 00:01:26,240
Speaker 1: I'm talking about Angelica Griswold. Greswold's trial is delayed yet again,

20
00:01:26,520 --> 00:01:30,119
Speaker 1: and it is a disgrace, but it is inching toward

21
00:01:30,680 --> 00:01:34,160
Speaker 1: a jury trial. I Nancy Grace. This is crime stories,

22
00:01:34,319 --> 00:01:37,920
Speaker 1: and this is the case that certainly needs a light

23
00:01:38,080 --> 00:01:42,840
Speaker 1: shine upon it. I'm talking about Angelica, or as some

24
00:01:43,000 --> 00:01:49,440
Speaker 1: people say, Angelica Grasswald. What happened? I want to thank

25
00:01:49,520 --> 00:01:55,960
Speaker 1: our podcast sponsor today, Blue Apron. It's awesome. I didn't

26
00:01:56,000 --> 00:01:58,480
Speaker 1: know that much about it. My son told me about it,

27
00:01:58,520 --> 00:02:01,680
Speaker 1: who was nine, and we tried it. I have a

28
00:02:01,840 --> 00:02:04,680
Speaker 1: video of them opening the Blue Apron box and getting

29
00:02:04,680 --> 00:02:06,960
Speaker 1: all excited about the chicken and the fish and all

30
00:02:07,000 --> 00:02:09,560
Speaker 1: the ingredients. They didn't know what the girl it was,

31
00:02:10,240 --> 00:02:12,760
Speaker 1: and I said, this is what you scared vampires away with.

32
00:02:13,120 --> 00:02:16,079
Speaker 1: So they're all all about cooking with garlic. Now. It

33
00:02:16,760 --> 00:02:21,640
Speaker 1: was delicious. Everything was in there that we needed, super

34
00:02:21,800 --> 00:02:28,240
Speaker 1: fresh veggies, the fish, the chicken perfect. And I did

35
00:02:28,320 --> 00:02:30,840
Speaker 1: not have to go get in the car, drive to

36
00:02:30,880 --> 00:02:34,560
Speaker 1: the grocery store, get the stuff, come back, get out

37
00:02:34,600 --> 00:02:36,799
Speaker 1: of the car, drag it all in and figure out

38
00:02:36,840 --> 00:02:39,040
Speaker 1: how to make it. It was all laid out for me.

39
00:02:39,200 --> 00:02:42,240
Speaker 1: It's like ten bucks a person. You know, you can't

40
00:02:42,280 --> 00:02:44,400
Speaker 1: go out to dinner for that and deal with some

41
00:02:44,480 --> 00:02:47,919
Speaker 1: snarky waitress or wait tron. I mean it was great.

42
00:02:48,400 --> 00:02:51,239
Speaker 1: And for working moms and dads who need to come

43
00:02:51,280 --> 00:02:53,799
Speaker 1: home and want to have that home cooked meal for

44
00:02:53,880 --> 00:02:57,840
Speaker 1: their children, this is the perfect answer. You know, I

45
00:02:57,919 --> 00:03:00,320
Speaker 1: don't know how my mom did it. You had a

46
00:03:00,440 --> 00:03:03,119
Speaker 1: very stressful job. She would come home and cook full

47
00:03:03,200 --> 00:03:07,200
Speaker 1: meal every night. And those are my memories, happy memories

48
00:03:07,480 --> 00:03:09,840
Speaker 1: of all of us around the table, no matter how

49
00:03:09,919 --> 00:03:11,960
Speaker 1: busy I am, I'm going to give that to my children.

50
00:03:12,440 --> 00:03:16,160
Speaker 1: Blue Apron, I am grateful and thankful that you're making

51
00:03:16,240 --> 00:03:19,639
Speaker 1: that easier for me to do. I know what is

52
00:03:19,760 --> 00:03:22,720
Speaker 1: in the food I'm giving my children. Ani made it

53
00:03:22,840 --> 00:03:26,600
Speaker 1: easy and affordable. Blue Apron, Thank you and thank you

54
00:03:27,080 --> 00:03:30,239
Speaker 1: for sponsoring our podcast today. And check out this week's

55
00:03:30,280 --> 00:03:33,440
Speaker 1: menu and get your first three meals free with free

56
00:03:33,480 --> 00:03:38,160
Speaker 1: shipping by going to Blue Apron dot com slash Nancy Grace.

57
00:03:38,640 --> 00:03:40,720
Speaker 1: You'll love how good it feels and taste and to

58
00:03:41,120 --> 00:03:44,400
Speaker 1: create incredible home cooked meals with Blue Apron. So don't wait.

59
00:03:44,600 --> 00:03:49,280
Speaker 1: That's Blue Apron dot Com slash Nancy Grace Blue Apron

60
00:03:49,680 --> 00:03:53,680
Speaker 1: A Better Way to Cook. Angelica Graswol is accused of

61
00:03:54,280 --> 00:03:57,880
Speaker 1: murdering her fiance The trial was set for a Valentine's

62
00:03:58,000 --> 00:04:00,520
Speaker 1: Day and somehow she squirmed out of that. It was

63
00:04:00,600 --> 00:04:03,520
Speaker 1: set for March thirteen. She squirmed out of it again.

64
00:04:04,040 --> 00:04:07,040
Speaker 1: Pretty soon She's just gonna die of old age. Her

65
00:04:07,560 --> 00:04:12,840
Speaker 1: fiancee remains dead in the grave. She is accused of

66
00:04:13,160 --> 00:04:17,960
Speaker 1: murdering him by kayak. This is the so called kayak killer.

67
00:04:18,560 --> 00:04:21,560
Speaker 1: And I know exactly where this happened. I've been in

68
00:04:21,640 --> 00:04:25,880
Speaker 1: this exact spot before. There is so much evidence in

69
00:04:26,000 --> 00:04:28,400
Speaker 1: this case. What happened is she claims they were going

70
00:04:28,480 --> 00:04:33,039
Speaker 1: out on a kayaking trip. It was in the afternoon

71
00:04:33,080 --> 00:04:37,080
Speaker 1: of April nineteen, two thousand and fifteen. It is now

72
00:04:37,839 --> 00:04:43,279
Speaker 1: nearly the two year mark and still nothing. A. Angelica

73
00:04:43,560 --> 00:04:47,760
Speaker 1: is at with her fiance via four and there on

74
00:04:47,800 --> 00:04:52,720
Speaker 1: the Hudson River and they're going to Bannerman Island and

75
00:04:52,839 --> 00:04:57,240
Speaker 1: it's very calm waters now Bannerman Island, it looks like

76
00:04:58,320 --> 00:05:01,440
Speaker 1: just enough land popping up out of the Hudson River

77
00:05:02,040 --> 00:05:07,120
Speaker 1: to have a castle of sorts on it. True dilapidated unlivable,

78
00:05:07,640 --> 00:05:10,520
Speaker 1: but it looks like an old castle there. So this

79
00:05:10,640 --> 00:05:14,080
Speaker 1: is around four o'clock in the afternoon on their return trip,

80
00:05:14,200 --> 00:05:16,760
Speaker 1: and a lot of people boat to it, They walk

81
00:05:16,839 --> 00:05:19,680
Speaker 1: around on it, they look at it. On the return

82
00:05:19,760 --> 00:05:25,520
Speaker 1: trips seven pm, she says, the seas become turbulent with

83
00:05:25,760 --> 00:05:30,760
Speaker 1: waves and currents and wind. And I've got to tell you,

84
00:05:31,240 --> 00:05:36,120
Speaker 1: from Bannamin Island to the mainland, I could almost throw

85
00:05:36,160 --> 00:05:39,560
Speaker 1: a softball that far. It's not that far. So how

86
00:05:39,800 --> 00:05:45,000
Speaker 1: do you get turbulent waves, currents, wind to capsize? Now

87
00:05:45,080 --> 00:05:48,480
Speaker 1: he's in his own kayak, she's in hers kayaking and

88
00:05:48,600 --> 00:05:53,160
Speaker 1: her hypothermia experts have stated it was a dangerous day

89
00:05:53,320 --> 00:05:57,200
Speaker 1: to be out on forty six degree waters without a

90
00:05:57,320 --> 00:06:00,200
Speaker 1: life checket or wet suit. But they didn't off that

91
00:06:00,279 --> 00:06:03,080
Speaker 1: far to go. I would think he could swim to shore.

92
00:06:03,800 --> 00:06:08,919
Speaker 1: Now they were veteran kayakers. Interesting, the amount of water

93
00:06:09,440 --> 00:06:13,480
Speaker 1: entering the small hole on top of the kayak could

94
00:06:13,600 --> 00:06:16,560
Speaker 1: be minimal compared to the amount of water that splashed

95
00:06:16,600 --> 00:06:21,240
Speaker 1: into his open cockpit. So to Alan the duke, Duke,

96
00:06:21,680 --> 00:06:24,800
Speaker 1: what is the theory? Alan? How is the state going

97
00:06:24,880 --> 00:06:28,920
Speaker 1: to prove murder? They're going to show that the kayak

98
00:06:29,080 --> 00:06:32,880
Speaker 1: sank because it took on water, and their theorizing, well, actually,

99
00:06:33,600 --> 00:06:36,039
Speaker 1: get right down to it, they're gonna say she confessed.

100
00:06:36,120 --> 00:06:38,480
Speaker 1: I mean, that's the main thing that they've got that

101
00:06:38,600 --> 00:06:40,920
Speaker 1: They did this long interrogation with her, and at the

102
00:06:41,000 --> 00:06:44,000
Speaker 1: end of it she says, Okay, so I'm free. He's dead.

103
00:06:44,160 --> 00:06:48,640
Speaker 1: I'm killed him. That's exactly correct. The investigator testified under

104
00:06:48,720 --> 00:06:54,200
Speaker 1: oath at Angelica Grasswoll confessed to sabotaging her fiance's kayak

105
00:06:54,520 --> 00:06:58,960
Speaker 1: because of their sour relationship. She says she wanted to

106
00:06:59,120 --> 00:07:02,240
Speaker 1: be free. How this is a New York State Police investigator,

107
00:07:02,680 --> 00:07:06,159
Speaker 1: and he stated in open court under oath, she confessed

108
00:07:06,240 --> 00:07:10,920
Speaker 1: that she caused his death Vincent's death by sabotaging his kayak.

109
00:07:11,360 --> 00:07:15,080
Speaker 1: She was upset over their souring relationship. Now she says

110
00:07:15,160 --> 00:07:18,720
Speaker 1: she felt trapped, but other sources say he's the one

111
00:07:18,800 --> 00:07:21,680
Speaker 1: that wanted to end it and poof before it could.

112
00:07:21,880 --> 00:07:24,600
Speaker 1: Before he could end it, he dies. Now, isn't that

113
00:07:24,760 --> 00:07:27,440
Speaker 1: a co inky dining Alan. Fortunately, they did have a

114
00:07:27,480 --> 00:07:30,400
Speaker 1: two hundred and fifty thousand dollar life insurance policy with

115
00:07:30,600 --> 00:07:33,840
Speaker 1: her as the beneficiary, so all is not lost Nancy,

116
00:07:34,480 --> 00:07:36,600
Speaker 1: so she'll be able to dress in style for her

117
00:07:36,680 --> 00:07:39,320
Speaker 1: murder trial, and a quarter of a million dollars quarter

118
00:07:39,320 --> 00:07:41,320
Speaker 1: of a million dollars still won't get her bell because

119
00:07:41,320 --> 00:07:44,440
Speaker 1: her bell was set at three million dollars. Now, she

120
00:07:45,080 --> 00:07:48,600
Speaker 1: reportedly says, and this is under oath by Donald Dakarto,

121
00:07:49,040 --> 00:07:51,840
Speaker 1: I wanted to be free. I wanted him gone. I

122
00:07:51,920 --> 00:07:54,960
Speaker 1: wanted to be myself. And this is just ten days

123
00:07:55,520 --> 00:08:00,600
Speaker 1: after Via four's kayak capsized and he disappeared under the

124
00:08:00,720 --> 00:08:03,920
Speaker 1: rough waters. Now he goes on to say that she

125
00:08:04,240 --> 00:08:07,320
Speaker 1: says she didn't just say I did it. She explained

126
00:08:07,360 --> 00:08:09,760
Speaker 1: how she did it. That she removed the plug from

127
00:08:09,840 --> 00:08:13,960
Speaker 1: his kayak, so we went under. She says she felt fine,

128
00:08:14,360 --> 00:08:19,000
Speaker 1: that she was over it, and she felt quote free thoughts.

129
00:08:19,880 --> 00:08:23,680
Speaker 1: She's now saying that she didn't really want to confess,

130
00:08:23,760 --> 00:08:26,560
Speaker 1: but she was just telling the investigators what she thought

131
00:08:26,600 --> 00:08:31,840
Speaker 1: they wanted to hear after a long, grueling session of

132
00:08:32,000 --> 00:08:35,480
Speaker 1: being interrogated, and that she it wasn't sincere that that

133
00:08:36,040 --> 00:08:39,360
Speaker 1: was a false confession just to get them to leave

134
00:08:39,440 --> 00:08:42,600
Speaker 1: her a long, long, grolling session. It was eleven hours.

135
00:08:42,840 --> 00:08:45,640
Speaker 1: It was eleven hours. That's not long. That's about a

136
00:08:45,760 --> 00:08:50,679
Speaker 1: regular workday for most people eight. I mean I'd get

137
00:08:50,679 --> 00:08:52,480
Speaker 1: to the d a S office at eight and I

138
00:08:52,520 --> 00:08:57,079
Speaker 1: wouldn't get to leave until seven. So where when? But yeah,

139
00:08:57,160 --> 00:08:59,000
Speaker 1: but that's a job. I would not want to have

140
00:08:59,200 --> 00:09:03,520
Speaker 1: as sit there and be being interrogated for eleven straight

141
00:09:03,640 --> 00:09:06,439
Speaker 1: hours about something, especially if I didn't do it. Well,

142
00:09:06,480 --> 00:09:10,360
Speaker 1: that's what you get when you murder somebody, Alan, Alan,

143
00:09:10,440 --> 00:09:12,199
Speaker 1: if you didn't do it, why would you say you

144
00:09:12,320 --> 00:09:17,520
Speaker 1: did it? She wasn't the false cosion, She wasn't tricked.

145
00:09:17,640 --> 00:09:22,120
Speaker 1: I don't believes are you telling me that you think

146
00:09:22,160 --> 00:09:26,360
Speaker 1: it every confession is for real? But eleven hours, I

147
00:09:26,400 --> 00:09:28,920
Speaker 1: don't know that is proof that you love. That was

148
00:09:29,000 --> 00:09:31,720
Speaker 1: just proof that you love to hear yourself talk. Because

149
00:09:31,840 --> 00:09:35,280
Speaker 1: I already said, yes, I think there are some false confessions.

150
00:09:35,360 --> 00:09:38,320
Speaker 1: Yes I do. I think sometimes people have been beaten,

151
00:09:38,679 --> 00:09:43,920
Speaker 1: they have been threatened, they have been tricked. Here her punishment,

152
00:09:44,280 --> 00:09:48,559
Speaker 1: her pressure, her intimidation was she sat her booty and

153
00:09:48,720 --> 00:09:51,839
Speaker 1: an office chair for eleven hours. You know, spare me

154
00:09:52,160 --> 00:09:55,839
Speaker 1: the false confession b S on this one. Please. This

155
00:09:56,040 --> 00:10:01,040
Speaker 1: is actually what's been delaying this trial is a psychologic evaluation.

156
00:10:01,559 --> 00:10:04,040
Speaker 1: They just did that. Yeah, I mean a psycho. They

157
00:10:04,120 --> 00:10:08,280
Speaker 1: just announced that yes, a psychological evaluation that the defense

158
00:10:08,360 --> 00:10:12,720
Speaker 1: has just revealed that they're going to introduce and using court.

159
00:10:12,840 --> 00:10:14,920
Speaker 1: And now the prosecutors are saying, well, you know, we

160
00:10:15,040 --> 00:10:17,520
Speaker 1: didn't know this, and so we're gonna need some time

161
00:10:17,920 --> 00:10:21,040
Speaker 1: to examine this aspect of it and prepare for a trial.

162
00:10:21,120 --> 00:10:23,719
Speaker 1: That's what's been delaying it lately. You know what, You

163
00:10:23,800 --> 00:10:27,120
Speaker 1: know what, I could not be happier because this is

164
00:10:27,200 --> 00:10:30,920
Speaker 1: what happens when you use the psychiatric defense. You have

165
00:10:31,080 --> 00:10:34,360
Speaker 1: to say I did it, but I was under a

166
00:10:34,480 --> 00:10:37,040
Speaker 1: mental dress, or I was emotionally disturbed. I was just

167
00:10:37,120 --> 00:10:41,559
Speaker 1: flat out crazy people. So basically, if you go with

168
00:10:41,840 --> 00:10:45,280
Speaker 1: a psychological or mental defense, you gotta say you did it,

169
00:10:46,040 --> 00:10:48,240
Speaker 1: and then the jury is going to hear how she

170
00:10:48,400 --> 00:10:51,400
Speaker 1: was perfectly fine with no signs of any mental distress

171
00:10:51,600 --> 00:10:55,079
Speaker 1: up until she got busted for killing him. Then she

172
00:10:55,200 --> 00:10:59,320
Speaker 1: suddenly got real distressed. Okay, now here's the other thing.

173
00:10:59,400 --> 00:11:03,480
Speaker 1: Faults can fashion. So after eleven hours of sitting her

174
00:11:03,600 --> 00:11:07,400
Speaker 1: Tussie in an office chair, she confesses. But she doesn't

175
00:11:07,440 --> 00:11:10,760
Speaker 1: just say I did it. She explains how she did it,

176
00:11:11,120 --> 00:11:15,920
Speaker 1: removing the plug from his kayak and stashing stashing the

177
00:11:16,040 --> 00:11:21,400
Speaker 1: plug in their home. She also allegedly removed a piece

178
00:11:21,600 --> 00:11:24,439
Speaker 1: of his paddle, and once he's in the water and

179
00:11:24,520 --> 00:11:28,800
Speaker 1: struggling without a life fest she allegedly snatched his only

180
00:11:28,920 --> 00:11:34,880
Speaker 1: paddle from him. Well, you know, this kayaking thing is

181
00:11:35,080 --> 00:11:37,520
Speaker 1: not as dangerous as it sounds. And I mean that's

182
00:11:37,600 --> 00:11:40,320
Speaker 1: that Hudson River is not like a raging river at

183
00:11:40,360 --> 00:11:43,199
Speaker 1: that point. It's more like a lake. But that plug,

184
00:11:43,320 --> 00:11:45,880
Speaker 1: it's a river. It's not like they're an open sea

185
00:11:46,000 --> 00:11:51,000
Speaker 1: for people. Kayaks of the Caribbean. You know, this is

186
00:11:51,080 --> 00:11:54,360
Speaker 1: not Johnny Depp out there in a in a storm.

187
00:11:54,480 --> 00:11:57,280
Speaker 1: I've looked at these kayaks. This kind of a plastic

188
00:11:57,400 --> 00:12:00,880
Speaker 1: kayak that was used has a plug at the aft

189
00:12:01,320 --> 00:12:03,800
Speaker 1: end that's the rear for people who don't know these

190
00:12:03,880 --> 00:12:06,760
Speaker 1: nautical terms. At the aft end there is a plug.

191
00:12:06,840 --> 00:12:09,640
Speaker 1: You can pull it out and it does allow water

192
00:12:09,760 --> 00:12:16,120
Speaker 1: to seep into the into the kayak. But alan pulling

193
00:12:16,200 --> 00:12:22,640
Speaker 1: the plug complicated that that doesn't inherently mean there's one

194
00:12:22,640 --> 00:12:25,520
Speaker 1: of those words that you're going to sink. And as

195
00:12:25,559 --> 00:12:27,679
Speaker 1: far as the paddle, what's the deal with the paddle?

196
00:12:28,040 --> 00:12:30,320
Speaker 1: If the boat's sinking, why you need a paddle? Here's

197
00:12:30,360 --> 00:12:31,760
Speaker 1: the thing to try to get to land before it

198
00:12:31,800 --> 00:12:35,160
Speaker 1: fills up with water. Can't this guy swim pulling the plug?

199
00:12:35,400 --> 00:12:38,280
Speaker 1: And then is it her fault he can't swim dashing

200
00:12:38,520 --> 00:12:42,160
Speaker 1: the plug in their home? Now hold on, wait a minute, whoa, whoa,

201
00:12:42,240 --> 00:12:44,280
Speaker 1: Wait a minute, Wait a minute. She went on to

202
00:12:44,400 --> 00:12:47,520
Speaker 1: describe why she did it, and here it is, Alan,

203
00:12:47,520 --> 00:12:51,440
Speaker 1: I hope you're sitting down. She explained how vance they

204
00:12:51,559 --> 00:12:55,120
Speaker 1: fiance made sexual demands on her. Oh no, that he

205
00:12:55,240 --> 00:12:57,720
Speaker 1: wanted sex and that made her feel trap and want

206
00:12:57,760 --> 00:13:00,040
Speaker 1: to be free. I've got a surprise every man. I

207
00:13:00,160 --> 00:13:04,320
Speaker 1: want sex. Okay, that's the headline. Bam. I don't care

208
00:13:04,400 --> 00:13:06,480
Speaker 1: what kind of sex they want. They want sex and

209
00:13:06,600 --> 00:13:09,839
Speaker 1: that's just the deal. And they weren't even married. You know,

210
00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:12,200
Speaker 1: your words, not mine. I couldn't care less who sleeps

211
00:13:12,240 --> 00:13:15,240
Speaker 1: with who, cats and dogs sleeping together, don't care. But

212
00:13:15,320 --> 00:13:17,559
Speaker 1: what I do care about is a dead body that

213
00:13:17,640 --> 00:13:19,920
Speaker 1: floats up on top of the Hudson River. That's what

214
00:13:20,040 --> 00:13:24,640
Speaker 1: I care about. Okay. So did he call off the

215
00:13:24,720 --> 00:13:27,720
Speaker 1: engagement though? That I don't know. I think he wanted

216
00:13:27,840 --> 00:13:30,520
Speaker 1: out that that's what And she was upset about their

217
00:13:30,600 --> 00:13:36,600
Speaker 1: quote souring relationship. M Can I tell you something else

218
00:13:37,040 --> 00:13:40,280
Speaker 1: all your I want to say jabbering, but that would

219
00:13:40,320 --> 00:13:43,040
Speaker 1: be rude, so I'm not gonna say jabbering. I'll just

220
00:13:43,200 --> 00:13:46,240
Speaker 1: think it. I won't verbalize it. Let me see all

221
00:13:46,320 --> 00:13:49,640
Speaker 1: of your Let me just say analysis that there was

222
00:13:50,080 --> 00:13:55,640
Speaker 1: torture and coercion involved, and sod video. They videoed it.

223
00:13:57,000 --> 00:14:00,600
Speaker 1: He videoed her confession. I couldn't be happier. I think

224
00:14:00,679 --> 00:14:03,800
Speaker 1: it's crazy for them to try a mental defense. But

225
00:14:04,520 --> 00:14:06,840
Speaker 1: to each her own if that's the way she wants

226
00:14:06,920 --> 00:14:11,480
Speaker 1: to go. But they're claiming mental defense. That's the new

227
00:14:11,559 --> 00:14:14,240
Speaker 1: thing or their plan. They may claim it. The latest

228
00:14:14,280 --> 00:14:17,320
Speaker 1: thing is they're heading to court and they go, oh yeah, right,

229
00:14:17,440 --> 00:14:19,600
Speaker 1: she has an emotional problem. This is after two years

230
00:14:20,120 --> 00:14:24,640
Speaker 1: they decide that she has an emotional problem. So another

231
00:14:24,840 --> 00:14:28,800
Speaker 1: hearing has now been planned because it's been rescheduled. Alan,

232
00:14:28,880 --> 00:14:31,560
Speaker 1: how do you find out two years into it that

233
00:14:31,640 --> 00:14:34,040
Speaker 1: you have a mental problem. I don't know that people

234
00:14:34,160 --> 00:14:36,960
Speaker 1: necessarily find out they have a mental problem. They're told

235
00:14:37,000 --> 00:14:39,080
Speaker 1: they have a mental problem. I mean, I may have one,

236
00:14:39,120 --> 00:14:40,680
Speaker 1: and I don't know that I've got it. Well, I

237
00:14:40,760 --> 00:14:44,400
Speaker 1: can tell you you don't have a mental problem. You're fine,

238
00:14:44,480 --> 00:14:47,400
Speaker 1: Thank you, Thank you. And I have a doctrine. It's

239
00:14:47,440 --> 00:14:50,840
Speaker 1: a jurist doctrine, of course, but that's you know, I'm

240
00:14:50,920 --> 00:14:54,560
Speaker 1: dispensing all the medical advice I can now. But the lawyers,

241
00:14:54,680 --> 00:14:57,720
Speaker 1: how can they decide, like basically on the eve of trial,

242
00:14:58,280 --> 00:14:59,800
Speaker 1: that there's a that they need a ment, they have

243
00:14:59,880 --> 00:15:02,400
Speaker 1: a mental evaluation they need to bring up. I think

244
00:15:02,440 --> 00:15:04,760
Speaker 1: it may be that they have just come up with

245
00:15:04,840 --> 00:15:07,760
Speaker 1: the strategy fairly recently, because they certainly didn't inform the

246
00:15:07,800 --> 00:15:10,680
Speaker 1: prosecution about it. But you gotta give them. You gotta

247
00:15:10,680 --> 00:15:12,680
Speaker 1: give them credit for trying using all the tools in

248
00:15:12,720 --> 00:15:15,480
Speaker 1: the toolbox, right, Nancy, Yeah, I do agree with that.

249
00:15:15,680 --> 00:15:17,840
Speaker 1: I gotta give it to them. It would be malpractice

250
00:15:17,880 --> 00:15:20,280
Speaker 1: that they didn't if if, if it could help if

251
00:15:20,760 --> 00:15:24,880
Speaker 1: she here's the deal, If she gets a delay for

252
00:15:24,960 --> 00:15:28,640
Speaker 1: another couple of months, she's innocent until she's proven guilty.

253
00:15:29,120 --> 00:15:32,560
Speaker 1: So it's another day, but she's still locked up, another

254
00:15:32,680 --> 00:15:36,320
Speaker 1: day of being innocent rture, and I'm paying for her

255
00:15:36,440 --> 00:15:39,440
Speaker 1: food and boarding. Now here's the thing about that confession.

256
00:15:39,480 --> 00:15:45,560
Speaker 1: The judge ruled that the interrogation video will be seen

257
00:15:45,960 --> 00:15:50,280
Speaker 1: virtually all of an eleven hour police interrogation in which

258
00:15:50,800 --> 00:15:54,320
Speaker 1: she makes a series of incriminating statements will be seen

259
00:15:54,640 --> 00:15:57,960
Speaker 1: by the jury. So I mean, once that happens, where

260
00:15:58,040 --> 00:16:00,840
Speaker 1: can you go? You gotta go with mental defense. This

261
00:16:00,960 --> 00:16:04,000
Speaker 1: was a huge blow to the defense. Her defense lawyers

262
00:16:04,040 --> 00:16:08,160
Speaker 1: had vigorously tried to keep that interrogation tape and other

263
00:16:08,240 --> 00:16:10,720
Speaker 1: statements side of evidence, but there was no reason to

264
00:16:10,840 --> 00:16:13,360
Speaker 1: keep it out. Let me ask this though, This is

265
00:16:13,440 --> 00:16:15,920
Speaker 1: what I was wanting to get to. She was charged

266
00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:20,440
Speaker 1: with murder and manslaughter. Now, if he knew he couldn't swim,

267
00:16:20,640 --> 00:16:23,840
Speaker 1: I'm assuming he couldn't because he true and he didn't

268
00:16:23,920 --> 00:16:27,640
Speaker 1: have a life jacket, life best on, and he was

269
00:16:27,720 --> 00:16:32,960
Speaker 1: in this flimsy, vulnerable kayak. Doesn't he have some responsibility

270
00:16:33,080 --> 00:16:35,320
Speaker 1: for the fact that he drowned? I mean, there's no

271
00:16:35,480 --> 00:16:38,880
Speaker 1: evidence that she jumped in and pushed his head underwater

272
00:16:39,400 --> 00:16:42,600
Speaker 1: and drowned him. I mean, it's sort of a passive

273
00:16:42,680 --> 00:16:45,040
Speaker 1: way of murder or manslaughter, if that's what it is,

274
00:16:45,120 --> 00:16:47,280
Speaker 1: other than oh, I pulled the plug. Other than that,

275
00:16:47,840 --> 00:16:51,200
Speaker 1: let me quote Batman yet again, that's lego Batman. I

276
00:16:51,320 --> 00:16:54,360
Speaker 1: hate everything you just said because it's full of lines.

277
00:16:54,600 --> 00:16:57,480
Speaker 1: He could swim and it was not a flimsy kayak

278
00:16:58,480 --> 00:17:02,160
Speaker 1: and regard was if it was a two or fifty

279
00:17:02,200 --> 00:17:06,840
Speaker 1: dollar kayak or dollar kayak. You pull the plug, you're

280
00:17:06,880 --> 00:17:10,640
Speaker 1: going down. And this woman is a native of lat

281
00:17:10,760 --> 00:17:14,680
Speaker 1: Via and she comes over here, she meets up with him.

282
00:17:15,200 --> 00:17:18,040
Speaker 1: She has a quarter of a million dollar life insurance policy,

283
00:17:18,160 --> 00:17:21,280
Speaker 1: two of them listening her as a beneficiary. She says

284
00:17:21,320 --> 00:17:24,760
Speaker 1: the relationships gone sour, and that she pulled the plug

285
00:17:25,000 --> 00:17:28,200
Speaker 1: and hid it in the house and a ring from

286
00:17:28,280 --> 00:17:31,040
Speaker 1: his paddle. I mean, I don't know what more you want,

287
00:17:31,119 --> 00:17:34,080
Speaker 1: but what I'm irritated about right now, aside from his death,

288
00:17:34,240 --> 00:17:37,960
Speaker 1: is jerking the system around by delay, delay, delay, and

289
00:17:38,080 --> 00:17:41,959
Speaker 1: now suddenly jumping up with a so called mental defense. Actually,

290
00:17:42,000 --> 00:17:46,000
Speaker 1: the prosecution asked for this current delay. So another thing

291
00:17:46,160 --> 00:17:50,560
Speaker 1: that legal experts are whining about is that the medical

292
00:17:50,680 --> 00:17:54,000
Speaker 1: examiner stated that this manner of death was a homicide,

293
00:17:54,680 --> 00:17:58,520
Speaker 1: signing the kayak drain plug intentionally removed by another. And

294
00:17:58,600 --> 00:18:01,679
Speaker 1: of course all the lawyers go crazy, claiming the medical

295
00:18:01,760 --> 00:18:06,040
Speaker 1: examiner's office overstepped its bounds by mentioning the drain plug

296
00:18:06,359 --> 00:18:09,240
Speaker 1: when their orders are to examine the body. But the

297
00:18:09,359 --> 00:18:14,280
Speaker 1: truth is, medical examiners often determined, they determined cause and manner,

298
00:18:14,800 --> 00:18:17,720
Speaker 1: and they have to look at surrounding circumstances to decide

299
00:18:18,080 --> 00:18:22,639
Speaker 1: sometimes wasn't homicide or accident or suicide? Just like if

300
00:18:22,680 --> 00:18:25,440
Speaker 1: there's a needle and a syringe next to the body,

301
00:18:25,720 --> 00:18:27,840
Speaker 1: they're able to note that, right it's the same thing.

302
00:18:27,960 --> 00:18:31,359
Speaker 1: The plug was pulled. Absolutely, so Alan, that's where it

303
00:18:31,400 --> 00:18:34,119
Speaker 1: stands right now. And I think you made mr Calling.

304
00:18:34,200 --> 00:18:38,840
Speaker 1: I think that although you're, you know, a dashing young journalist,

305
00:18:39,520 --> 00:18:41,960
Speaker 1: you may should have been a defense lawyer because you

306
00:18:42,160 --> 00:18:46,960
Speaker 1: certainly have the all those impulses and not judging was

307
00:18:47,000 --> 00:18:49,280
Speaker 1: that a compliment or what will stay on it? The

308
00:18:49,440 --> 00:18:53,040
Speaker 1: Kayak murder case, I don't know what it was. Again,

309
00:18:53,200 --> 00:18:56,840
Speaker 1: a big thank you to our sponsor today, Blue Apron,

310
00:18:57,280 --> 00:19:02,840
Speaker 1: who makes home Cooked, a four portable and simple, delicious

311
00:19:03,400 --> 00:19:07,200
Speaker 1: meals at home available for working moms and dad's so

312
00:19:07,400 --> 00:19:11,480
Speaker 1: you can have that family moment around your table with

313
00:19:11,600 --> 00:19:14,240
Speaker 1: a delicious meal and you know what goes in it

314
00:19:14,400 --> 00:19:17,040
Speaker 1: and you know what's good for your children. Blue Apron,

315
00:19:17,080 --> 00:19:19,879
Speaker 1: you made that possible for me yet another night in

316
00:19:19,960 --> 00:19:23,720
Speaker 1: a row. Thank you, Blue Apron. Nancy Grace Crime Stories

317
00:19:24,240 --> 00:19:27,320
Speaker 1: signing off, Thank you Fran for being with us and

318
00:19:27,440 --> 00:19:32,720
Speaker 1: Angelica or Angelica, whatever I'm onto you, girl,