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Speaker 1: Hi, get everybody on Dan Hord and thanks for downloading

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Speaker 1: The Bengals Booth Podcast, the Got a Whole Lot of

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Speaker 1: History edition, as Hall of Famer and former Bengals coach

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Speaker 1: tick lebou joins me to discuss his remarkable life in football.

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Speaker 1: The Bengals Booth Podcast is brought to you by pay Corps,

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Speaker 1: Proud to be the Bengals official HR software provider, by

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Speaker 1: business and community to a new level, and by Kettering

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Speaker 1: Health the best care for the best fans. Kettering Health

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Speaker 1: is the official healthcare provider of the Bengals. Now here's

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Speaker 1: a quick reminder that you can have the latest edition

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Speaker 1: of this podcast delivered right to your phone, tablet, or

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Speaker 1: computer by subscribing wherever you get your podcasts. It's the

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Speaker 1: greatest thing since efficient use of dishes. I've joked on

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Speaker 1: this podcast before about some of my unique skills. For example,

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Speaker 1: I consider myself a world class whistler. If they ever

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Speaker 1: come out with American whistling idol, I'm a number one seed. Also,

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Speaker 1: I am an expert at pouring the perfect amount of

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Speaker 1: milk into a bowl of cereal so that the cereal

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Speaker 1: and milk end on the same spoonful. Well, let me

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Speaker 1: add another thing to the list. I have a genius

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Speaker 1: level ability to cook a meal with the minimal amount

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Speaker 1: of dirty pots, pans, utensils, dishes, et cetera. Part of

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Speaker 1: it is cleaning as I go, but when I'm finished,

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Speaker 1: there's generally very little cleanup required. In contrast, when my

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Speaker 1: wife makes dinner, and in fairness, she is a vastly

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Speaker 1: superior cook who makes dinner most of the time, the

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Speaker 1: sink looks like she's an army chef that just finished

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Speaker 1: serving the troops. You can probably tell who does the dishes. Now,

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Speaker 1: let's get to football. Dick Lebau played his first NFL

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Speaker 1: game in nineteen fifty nine as a twenty two year

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Speaker 1: old rookie for the Detroit Lions. He ended his coaching

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Speaker 1: career in twoenty seventeen as the eighty year old defensive

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Speaker 1: coordinator for the Tennessee Titans. In between, Dick spent fifty

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Speaker 1: nine consecutive years in the NFL as a player or coach,

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Speaker 1: and while he's best known nationally for the great defense

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Speaker 1: as he built in Pittsburgh, he actually spent more years

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Speaker 1: in Cincinnati than anywhere else, eighteen, including two plus years

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Speaker 1: as the Bengals head coach. Dick lives in the Cincinnati

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Speaker 1: area in retirement and joined me to discuss his remarkable career. Dick,

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Speaker 1: I think most people listening to this podcast know that

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Speaker 1: you spent your entire Hall of Fame playing career with

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Speaker 1: the Detroit Lions. But you were actually drafted by Paul

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Speaker 1: Brown in Cleveland in nineteen fifty nine. He was about

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Speaker 1: fifteen years old at the time, he had already won

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Speaker 1: seven championships. What do you remember about that training camp

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Speaker 1: under PB and fifty.

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Speaker 2: Nine, Well, coach Paul was an innovator from the word

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Speaker 2: to go and many of the things that were firsts

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Speaker 2: for the National Football League in terms of training camps

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Speaker 2: and off season schedules, in season schedules, note books, they

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Speaker 2: all go back passing game, if you want to, they

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Speaker 2: all go back to Paul Brown. And he was just

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Speaker 2: he wasn't a very big man. He was a good

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Speaker 2: college quarterback, I think at Miami of Ohio, and he

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Speaker 2: was a guy that when he came into the room,

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Speaker 2: there was no question who was running the meeting. And

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Speaker 2: he just was a born leader with a tremendous acumen

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Speaker 2: for athletics and football in particular, and judge, he just

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Speaker 2: had an innate judge of talent, and he could almost

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Speaker 2: I think it was almost osmotic, because he would look

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Speaker 2: at somebody and he'd say, Oh, I don't think he's

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Speaker 2: going to make it, you know, And most of the

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Speaker 2: time he wouldn't, or he would say, this guy is

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Speaker 2: going to be a good football player. And that's how

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Speaker 2: he built his team and his records. I have a

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Speaker 2: particular oddity that I like to throw to the Brown

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Speaker 2: family whenever I get an opportunity. I was released from

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Speaker 2: my position three different times in the National Football League,

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Speaker 2: all of them by the Brown family. But in between there,

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Speaker 2: I have eighteen years of employment, and you know something,

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Speaker 2: and every time that I went to the bank, they

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Speaker 2: cast a check, and anything that any Brown family member

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Speaker 2: ever said to me that they were going to do

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Speaker 2: or weren't going to do for that matter, it was exactly.

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Speaker 2: You could go to the bank on their word, and

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Speaker 2: they were as good a people to work for as

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Speaker 2: you could ever hope for in any walk of life.

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Speaker 1: Did Paul ever express regret that he didn't keep you

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Speaker 1: as a player in fifty nine.

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Speaker 2: Oh, that's one of my favorite stories. Several years later,

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Speaker 2: Paul was up to my hometown, London, Ohio, and he

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Speaker 2: was speaking at a men's club banquet at the London

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Speaker 2: Country Club, which is no big deal at all because

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Speaker 2: at that time there were only about eight thousand people

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Speaker 2: in the town. But Paul married a London girl, so

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Speaker 2: he was I think out of just respect for her

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Speaker 2: and her where she came from, I agreed to go

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Speaker 2: up there and speak to him. Well, there are quite

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Speaker 2: a few of my friends in there, and I had

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Speaker 2: made several all pro teams. But then, you know, and

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Speaker 2: my buddy started to kind of giving Paul a little

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Speaker 2: the jam, you know, when he was doing the question

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Speaker 2: and answer, and one of one of my good buddies says, well,

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Speaker 2: you know, he said, you guys, cut dick lebou. And

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Speaker 2: now he's he's going into his thirteenth year and he's

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Speaker 2: three times in the Pro Bowl and he is leading

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Speaker 2: the league in interceptions, and don't you think that you

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Speaker 2: made a mistake there, Coach Brown and Paul he just

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Speaker 2: kind of shoveled his feet a little bit and he said, oh,

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Speaker 2: he said, I've let a lot better players than dick

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Speaker 2: lea bou Go, which was classic Paul. But you know,

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Speaker 2: when you look back at it, you know he traded

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Speaker 2: Willie Davis and through two or three other guys that

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Speaker 2: are in a Hall of Fame. He either cut him

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Speaker 2: or trade him. He knew where he was going and

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Speaker 2: he knew what his plan was, and if you didn't

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Speaker 2: exactly fit it, he we're on down the street now.

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Speaker 2: And then in those days, I was like to tell

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Speaker 2: the story, there were thirty one players on the squad period,

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Speaker 2: and you didn't worry about special teams. If you were

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Speaker 2: on the team, you played, if you were capable, you

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Speaker 2: played punt team, punt return team, kickoff team. The only

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Speaker 2: thing I didn't play on was the extra point team

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Speaker 2: field goal team. I wasn't big enough for that. But

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Speaker 2: there were five defensive backs on the final roster, and

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Speaker 2: that was pretty much true throughout the whole league. And

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Speaker 2: at that time there were only twelve teams, so there

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Speaker 2: were only sixty guys making a living playing professional football

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Speaker 2: unless you wanted to go to the only other option

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Speaker 2: was Canada, which I didn't want to do, but so

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Speaker 2: to get released from a team, me and the guy

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Speaker 2: but the name of Farrell Funston, who was a really

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Speaker 2: good wide receiver from a College of Pacific. He had

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Speaker 2: about an eight or nine year professional career. We were

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Speaker 2: the last two guys cut from the Cleveland Browns that year,

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Speaker 2: and it was after the last preseason game. We played

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Speaker 2: six at that time, So to go to the last

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Speaker 2: cut out of training camp, you didn't have to hang

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Speaker 2: your head. You just hoped that somebody else would have

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Speaker 2: a spot for you, and it worked out for me.

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Speaker 1: The Browns were a perennial contender that as well, so

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Speaker 1: it was a tough roster to make. How grueling was

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Speaker 1: that training camp in fifty nine?

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Speaker 2: Training camp then was truly training camp. Like all things,

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Speaker 2: the science of football has advanced tremendously. Guys didn't do

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Speaker 2: that much in the offseason, and because they knew that,

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Speaker 2: the training camp was literally almost two months long, and

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Speaker 2: you were going two times a day for that first month,

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Speaker 2: and you had plenty of time to play yourself into shape.

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Speaker 2: And that was kind of the statis qurow throughout the

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Speaker 2: league at that time. But it was you were hunting

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Speaker 2: for that bed at lunch. After lunch, you jumped in

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Speaker 2: for a nap. I don't care if you were twenty

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Speaker 2: one years old or not. But Coach Brown had an

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Speaker 2: interesting way of doing things, and he was not going

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Speaker 2: very too much over the years because it worked. He

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Speaker 2: put in one offensive play a day, one play a day,

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Speaker 2: and well actually too because we practiced twice a day

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Speaker 2: that first month. But the first day we actually would

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Speaker 2: go out on the field and the only play that

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Speaker 2: he had in was a quarterback sneak and we would

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Speaker 2: line up for team period for twenty minutes anyway running

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Speaker 2: quarterback seat. But that's how thorough he was. He was

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Speaker 2: the first one to universally, universally apply the notebook, and

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Speaker 2: the players took their own notes. So when you would

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Speaker 2: go into the team meeting, he would speak to you

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Speaker 2: and then you'd break them to the position meetings and

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Speaker 2: the position coach would draw up the lesson for the

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Speaker 2: day up on the board, and you as a player

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Speaker 2: would sit in the classroom and draw it up in

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Speaker 2: your notebook, which you took with you, and you could

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Speaker 2: you had it there to study, and if your notes

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Speaker 2: weren't good, then you had no one to blame but yourself.

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Speaker 2: But that was the way he did it. Stuff like that,

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Speaker 2: Like I said, he.

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Speaker 1: Really customized football we're visiting with Hall of Famer Dick Lebow.

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Speaker 1: Let's go from Paul Brown to another coaching legend. You

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Speaker 1: went from your small Ohio hometown to Ohio State, played

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Speaker 1: a big role in a national championship team in nineteen

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Speaker 1: fifty seven, and of course played for the legendary Woody Hayes.

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Speaker 1: What did you respect most about coach Hayes.

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Speaker 2: Well, you're talking about two of the greatest football coaches

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Speaker 2: that ever stepped in the coaching room. But I also

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Speaker 2: as a professional football player for fourteen years, Don Shula

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Speaker 2: was one of my earliest defensive coordinators. I went to

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Speaker 2: three Pro Bowls. Vince Lombardi was one of them. Shula

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Speaker 2: was the So I was lucky enough to be I

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Speaker 2: always wanted to be a coach myself, and so I

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Speaker 2: kept a pretty good eye on the people that were

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Speaker 2: the head coaches and my position coach for that matter,

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Speaker 2: because I just you know, I would evaluate to myself, well,

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Speaker 2: you know that's probably a good way to do that,

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Speaker 2: or I might say I don't think I would do

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Speaker 2: it that way. And I was trying to prepare myself

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Speaker 2: for a life of coaching. And when I was with

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Speaker 2: the toy like I say I had Don Shula was

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Speaker 2: one of our very first coaches there. Shula had played

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Speaker 2: for Baltimore and then came over his coaching job with us,

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Speaker 2: and we led the league for two years and nobody

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Speaker 2: was close to us. And actually, when the Baltimore job

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Speaker 2: came open, Don went back and that's how he got

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Speaker 2: his first head coaching job. And so I found this

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Speaker 2: to be true in watching these guys like Lombardy and

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Speaker 2: Woody and coach Paul Brown, there was something different about them,

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Speaker 2: about their personality, about the delivery of their material. I

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Speaker 2: felt when I would go away from that experience, whatever

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Speaker 2: they would have chosen to be professionally for the rest

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Speaker 2: of their lives, they'd have been a huge success. Like

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Speaker 2: they were a coach, they had they had it, you

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Speaker 2: know how they put the quotation marks. But wood he

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Speaker 2: was I think one of only two men and maybe

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Speaker 2: only one man who rose to the rank of captain

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Speaker 2: and the Navy from the enlistment ranks, and he had

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Speaker 2: his own ship, and he was just special. And you

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Speaker 2: know there's an old Saint Dan, if it doesn't kill you,

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Speaker 2: it's good for you. Well, I'm still here talking to you.

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Speaker 2: So what he was fairly demanding, but so was coach

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Speaker 2: Brown for that matter, and Coach Shule. I mean you

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Speaker 2: kind of if you demand excellence, I should say perfection.

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Speaker 2: I guess some of them were, but I curtailed it.

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Speaker 2: I don't think anybody's perfect, but if you seek that,

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Speaker 2: you're going to get pretty good. And you get pretty

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Speaker 2: much what you accept as a coach, and these guys

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Speaker 2: accepted nothing short of getting the job done.

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Speaker 1: Did I read correctly that you developed a friendship with

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Speaker 1: Bobby Knight when you were students at the same time

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Speaker 1: at Ohio State.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, I had my first two years in the

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Speaker 2: business accounting, and then I realized that it wasn't going

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Speaker 2: to work for me. I had to be a coach,

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Speaker 2: and I got back into physical education, and which was

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Speaker 2: the degree of teaching degree, and in doing so, I

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Speaker 2: piled up all these hours credits, but I didn't have

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Speaker 2: enough for major so I went back two years my

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Speaker 2: first two years of playing professional football, and these guys

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Speaker 2: were all one or two years behind me and the

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Speaker 2: great Ohio State National championship basketball team. I became friends

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Speaker 2: with all of them. I played basketball with them all

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Speaker 2: the time. They would always put me on mail nole

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Speaker 2: because I would foul him and they got a big

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Speaker 2: kick out of that. But everyone off that team we

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Speaker 2: played three or four times a week really in the

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Speaker 2: off season, everyone but Jerry Lucas. He was too dig

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Speaker 2: I'm good, and we didn't want to play with him anyhow.

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Speaker 2: But I got to be friends with Habilchek and night

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Speaker 2: and stuff like that, hanging out with him at the

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Speaker 2: man's gym because if I wasn't playing football, I was

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Speaker 2: getting my body ready to play football. And one of

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Speaker 2: the best ways I always told my defensive backs play basketball.

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Speaker 2: Only play defense and keep your position on your guy

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Speaker 2: and stay between him and in the basket all the time,

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Speaker 2: which is what you got to do on the football field.

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Speaker 2: You got to stay between that guy and the goal

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Speaker 2: line because once he gets over there, schools out. And

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Speaker 2: I was a good basketball player, I could play with

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Speaker 2: those guys. I maybe played a little rougher than they played,

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Speaker 2: but they were That was one of the trademarks of

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Speaker 2: that great Ohio State team. They were a physical team. Uh. Bobby,

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Speaker 2: he would drive me crazy because he would say, let's

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Speaker 2: go see Woody. He was. He was a very adamant

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Speaker 2: admire of wood He hates and Bobby wanted to be

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Speaker 2: a coach too, And Bobby and I would talk about

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Speaker 2: defensing our different sports all the time, keeping pressure on

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Speaker 2: the ball, and it ended up working out for both

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Speaker 2: of us. Now, he wanted to held a lot more

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Speaker 2: games than I did, but I won my share too.

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Speaker 2: But that was kind of what we came up with.

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Speaker 2: For me, it was you got to get the quarterback.

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Speaker 2: You know, you can't let him go in there and

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Speaker 2: have all day to shave or whatever back there passing

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Speaker 2: the ball. He's going to cut you up. And with

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Speaker 2: Bobby it was they have all these intricate patterns and

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Speaker 2: shot screens and posting drives and everything. He said, you

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Speaker 2: got to disrupt that with pressure on the ball. So

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Speaker 2: between the two of us we got along great. But

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Speaker 2: Bobby wouldn't say, let's go see Woody. Let's go see Woody.

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Speaker 2: I said, Bobby, we just were down there two days ago.

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Speaker 2: He's running up football team. And it wasn't the off season,

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Speaker 2: of course, when I could go back to school and

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Speaker 2: get my degree. But we became good friend and Bobby,

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Speaker 2: in my way of thinking, is probably the most misunderstood

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Speaker 2: a great coach in any sport in any Land. The

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Speaker 2: media perception of Bobby is all you hear now and

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Speaker 2: people you know that was a long time ago when

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Speaker 2: we were playing basketball together. But I wrote Bobby when

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Speaker 2: when he had his biggest problems, I said, Bobby, if

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Speaker 2: my son is ever good enough to play basketball, that

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Speaker 2: was my son's favorite game. I said, I'm going to

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Speaker 2: send him to where you are, wherever you are, because

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Speaker 2: I want you to coach my son. That's what I

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Speaker 2: believed that Bobby Night. And I'm not too sure that

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Speaker 2: I helped him at all. By exposing to the wood

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Speaker 2: he becaut. Some of Bobby's coaching techniques paralleled Woody, but

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Speaker 2: they both won a lot of games.

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Speaker 1: I was part of the Syracuse University broadcast team in

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Speaker 1: nineteen eighty seven when they played Indiana in the championship game.

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Speaker 1: Had lost on the famous Keith Smart last second shot.

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Speaker 1: The day before the game, the head coaches did a

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Speaker 1: news conference. I still have the cassette recording. I don't

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Speaker 1: know if I have a cassette player to play it,

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Speaker 1: but I still have the tape of Bobby Knight speaking

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Speaker 1: reporters that day because it's the most impressive public speaking

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Speaker 1: appearance I have ever seen in my life. It was brilliant.

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Speaker 2: Bobby was a smart guy and he was a tremendous competitor.

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Speaker 2: You know, Bobby was They told him the greatest six

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Speaker 2: man in basketball. But he played as much as any

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Speaker 2: of the guys. He never missed. He had a jump shot,

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Speaker 2: it was poison. But he was great team player. Those

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Speaker 2: guys didn't care who was playing. They just all played

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Speaker 2: and they were tremendous. But Bobby was smart. He was

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Speaker 2: driven like all of us. You know, that end up coaching,

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Speaker 2: and sometimes his techniques were more befitting a football coach,

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Speaker 2: I think than a basketball coach. And it was a

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Speaker 2: different time, a different era, and I think that Bobby

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Speaker 2: would have altered a great deal of that in today's world.

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Speaker 2: But unfortunately a lot of the stories that have come

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Speaker 2: down from him, and he gave them plenty of material.

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Speaker 2: You hear about the wrong things that he did, and

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Speaker 2: Bobby did so many great things, and he was great

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Speaker 2: with the kids.

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Speaker 1: We're visiting with tickleball. Ted Carris joined the Bengals a

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Speaker 1: couple of years ago. He is the great nephew of

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Speaker 1: one of your Detroit teammates, Hall of Famer Alex Carris,

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Speaker 1: and as I chatted with Ted. Through our conversations, I

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Speaker 1: decided to read the old book Paper Lion, which focuses

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Speaker 1: on Detroit's training camp in nineteen sixty three. You come

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Speaker 1: off in that book as the coolest guy in the NFL,

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Speaker 1: guitar playing slick dancing ladies man. What do you think

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Speaker 1: of the book and your portrayal?

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Speaker 2: That was all George Plimpton, the author, he was writing

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Speaker 2: a book. He had he picked up a stick. He

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Speaker 2: would go and work out with various accomplished professional athletes,

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Speaker 2: and then he'd write the books about him. And he

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Speaker 2: had a particular style that caught the fancy of the

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Speaker 2: United States, the American reading public. And he was a very,

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Speaker 2: very successful author. And he had started out He's an

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Speaker 2: ivy league guy, and he started out in Europe as

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Speaker 2: the editor of a big fancy I mean, he was

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Speaker 2: a very erudite guy, you know. So he was entering

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Speaker 2: a different area when he went into the wrestlers and

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Speaker 2: the boxers and the football players. But it worked for him,

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Speaker 2: and I guess that was the character that he wanted

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Speaker 2: me to portray in his book. This story kind of

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00:21:15,680 --> 00:21:20,119
Speaker 2: goes like we didn't know as a team that he

336
00:21:20,280 --> 00:21:24,439
Speaker 2: was not a legitimate candidate for the football team that

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Speaker 2: he was actually trying out for quarterback in our training camp. Well, Dan,

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Speaker 2: it took us three minutes to know this guy. He

339
00:21:32,680 --> 00:21:37,120
Speaker 2: can't walk in chew gum. You know, this guy is

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Speaker 2: not a quarterback. But he became a good friend of

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Speaker 2: mine also, and they actually they sold the rights for

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00:21:45,440 --> 00:21:48,720
Speaker 2: the book for a movie. He made a pretty good

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Speaker 2: movie out of it, allan all and I think played George.

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Speaker 2: But they show you the difference in the way the

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Speaker 2: league has changed. After the book came out out, he

346
00:22:00,440 --> 00:22:03,800
Speaker 2: actually spent two weeks with us and training camp, went

347
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Speaker 2: to meetings with his hate with us. He did everything

348
00:22:07,080 --> 00:22:11,399
Speaker 2: with us, And I think it was probably it was

349
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Speaker 2: after the book or after the book was a movie.

350
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Speaker 2: They wanted to do a television special on him running

351
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Speaker 2: one series of downs at a at the NFL preseason game,

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Speaker 2: and so the I think it was the Cowboys. No, no,

353
00:22:33,440 --> 00:22:36,359
Speaker 2: it was the Colts. They said, yeah, you can, you

354
00:22:36,440 --> 00:22:39,679
Speaker 2: can do it, and so they couldn't get anybody to

355
00:22:39,760 --> 00:22:44,200
Speaker 2: do it with them, you know, so they they came

356
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Speaker 2: back to Detroit where he wrote, you know, his book,

357
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Speaker 2: and Joe Schmidt was our head coach. And George was

358
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Speaker 2: a player when Joe was a player, when George Plimpton

359
00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:03,360
Speaker 2: was trying to get back in there and do this

360
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Speaker 2: cut this TV series. So it wasn't serious, but it

361
00:23:07,320 --> 00:23:10,720
Speaker 2: was a you know, thirty five to forty minute the show.

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Speaker 2: And Joe said, yeah, come on, he can come on

363
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Speaker 2: in and play. So he actually came back to Detroit

364
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Speaker 2: practice with us a week and they gave him four

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Speaker 2: plays and we were playing. And so I think the

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Speaker 2: only pro game it's ever been in ourbor Stadium in Michigan.

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Speaker 2: We went up there and played a preseason game and

368
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Speaker 2: at halftime we went out there in the arsses. Our

369
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Speaker 2: number one defense went against their number one offense. But

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Speaker 2: Climpton was a quarterback. Now can you imagine any franchise

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Speaker 2: in today's world, Okay, in anything like that, But that

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00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:48,479
Speaker 2: actually happened, and it was it was about one hundred

373
00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:52,440
Speaker 2: degrees and it was down you know how that's a bowl.

374
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Speaker 2: That stadium's a bowl. It was about one hundred and

375
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Speaker 2: twenty down there on the field. So we all said,

376
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Speaker 2: I don't know if this was a good dear not

377
00:24:01,480 --> 00:24:05,320
Speaker 2: planning this extra series of now, but I just thought

378
00:24:05,320 --> 00:24:07,280
Speaker 2: to myself, well, this is great. And I said, I'm

379
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Speaker 2: going to get out here on national TV and George

380
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Speaker 2: Plimpton's going to complete a pass against me. I said, Plympton,

381
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Speaker 2: don't you ever even think about throwing the ball? Run

382
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Speaker 2: it three times and we'll get out here. Well, he

383
00:24:22,800 --> 00:24:26,760
Speaker 2: passed it naturally, but unfortunately it wasn't He didn't get

384
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Speaker 2: the ball hardly in the air. But I could see

385
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Speaker 2: myself being the only one that Plimpton ever committed a

386
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Speaker 2: passing with.

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Speaker 1: All right, let's move to your Cincinnati years. You join

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Speaker 1: the Bengals coaching staff as a part of Forrest Gregg's

389
00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:46,199
Speaker 1: first staff in nineteen eighty. Was Forrest Gregg as tough

390
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Speaker 1: and no nonsense as his players make it sound.

391
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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, Forest was a task master. He was great.

392
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Speaker 2: He was He was exactly what that team need with

393
00:24:57,320 --> 00:25:04,240
Speaker 2: people forget because that air of Bengal football. One loss,

394
00:25:04,280 --> 00:25:08,280
Speaker 2: maybe it was not reflective after it was all totaled up,

395
00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:10,320
Speaker 2: was maybe not that good. But we went to the

396
00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:13,359
Speaker 2: Super Bowl twice, and we had some great teams and

397
00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:17,159
Speaker 2: always had great offenses and defense. If we could have

398
00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:19,239
Speaker 2: just gotten a little bit better, we would have won

399
00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:21,520
Speaker 2: a couple of those Super Bowls. And we could have

400
00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:24,160
Speaker 2: won both of them. It was just one play game

401
00:25:24,280 --> 00:25:29,159
Speaker 2: type of thing. But Forrest was I think exactly what

402
00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:33,440
Speaker 2: Paul was looking for. Paul had started coaching the team

403
00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:38,880
Speaker 2: when he got the franchise, and he put him right

404
00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:42,199
Speaker 2: in the playoffs. It was amazing what he did with

405
00:25:42,280 --> 00:25:48,439
Speaker 2: that team. But he then he hired Forrest, and I

406
00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:57,199
Speaker 2: had applied for employment with Paul both times that they

407
00:25:57,240 --> 00:25:59,879
Speaker 2: were of course they became a franchise, I was still playing,

408
00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:05,280
Speaker 2: but he always had had the position before I didn't

409
00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:09,240
Speaker 2: get there. So I had some guys that had played

410
00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:15,479
Speaker 2: with Forest at Green Bay, I had worked with in

411
00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:20,119
Speaker 2: Philadelphia was my first coaching and they said you should

412
00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:22,920
Speaker 2: get this. Well, I'd gone to Green Bay and worked

413
00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:25,440
Speaker 2: with Bart Starver and then but they and they all

414
00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:28,280
Speaker 2: said to Forrest, you should get this guy to coach

415
00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:32,160
Speaker 2: your dvs. And uh, that's how I was lucky enough

416
00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:35,040
Speaker 2: to get to Cincinnati because I'm a high guy, Dan

417
00:26:35,240 --> 00:26:38,639
Speaker 2: and I'd never wanted to leave Ohio and I probably

418
00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:47,080
Speaker 2: never would have Ohio. But professional athletics and professional coaches

419
00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:51,679
Speaker 2: often change addresses, and as they say, don't send your

420
00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:54,840
Speaker 2: underwear out to the dry cleaner of me because you

421
00:26:55,040 --> 00:27:01,679
Speaker 2: may not be here to claim it, but uh, it

422
00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:06,320
Speaker 2: was like manna from heaven for me when Forced said

423
00:27:06,359 --> 00:27:10,840
Speaker 2: that he would like to talk to me. And Green

424
00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:13,440
Speaker 2: Bay is not a good place for a golfer. Man.

425
00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:16,439
Speaker 1: I grew up near Buffalo.

426
00:27:16,520 --> 00:27:18,920
Speaker 2: It's about the same are I've spent a year there too.

427
00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:21,800
Speaker 2: This April the first before you know if you got

428
00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:25,840
Speaker 2: any grass on your yard because it's all snow. But

429
00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:30,720
Speaker 2: Force grag was Will Lombardi said he was the best

430
00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:36,760
Speaker 2: football player he ever coached. And I have nothing but

431
00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:40,280
Speaker 2: good words to say about Forceth grade as a player,

432
00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:42,800
Speaker 2: as a coach, and a man, a boss, someone to

433
00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:47,920
Speaker 2: work for. He was perfect and he did a great

434
00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:51,680
Speaker 2: job with that team. We were a good team.

435
00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:55,200
Speaker 1: The first of those Super Bowl appearances that you referenced

436
00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:57,640
Speaker 1: was in your second year of the nineteen eighty one season.

437
00:27:58,080 --> 00:28:02,560
Speaker 1: I asked Mike Brown once to name his most painful

438
00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:05,320
Speaker 1: loss of all the years that he's been associated with

439
00:28:05,359 --> 00:28:08,240
Speaker 1: the Bengals, and he said super Bowl sixteen because he

440
00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:10,920
Speaker 1: believes in his heart of hearts that the Bengals were

441
00:28:10,920 --> 00:28:13,800
Speaker 1: the better team. You committed four turnovers in that game.

442
00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:17,240
Speaker 1: Do you feel the same way where the Bengals the

443
00:28:17,280 --> 00:28:19,320
Speaker 1: better team and Super Bowl sixteen.

444
00:28:19,359 --> 00:28:22,000
Speaker 2: Well, super Bowl games are almost always nip and tuck

445
00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:24,880
Speaker 2: and they go down to the last possession generally speaking.

446
00:28:24,960 --> 00:28:28,720
Speaker 2: If you you know football historian, you can check it

447
00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:31,040
Speaker 2: and it's just true. It's it's a one play game

448
00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:34,639
Speaker 2: usually because both teams are excellent and they've beaten a

449
00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:38,880
Speaker 2: lot of excellent teams to be there. And that game

450
00:28:39,040 --> 00:28:42,040
Speaker 2: was a typical Super Bowl game. We moved the ball

451
00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:46,880
Speaker 2: well and the turnovers and we had a couple of turnovers.

452
00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:50,960
Speaker 2: Ken Anderson was maybe the most accurate quarterback that I've

453
00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:56,560
Speaker 2: ever been around, and he and this group of receivers

454
00:28:56,560 --> 00:29:00,400
Speaker 2: were outstanding. They just they didn't have any turnovers, and

455
00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:03,239
Speaker 2: yet in that game we had several of them. They

456
00:29:03,280 --> 00:29:05,880
Speaker 2: were down in the red red zone, which were points.

457
00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:11,200
Speaker 2: And I know I remember one drive. We had a

458
00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:15,800
Speaker 2: great running back, a powerful full back from pay Johnson

459
00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:20,680
Speaker 2: from Ohigh State, and it was unstoppable. Well, the forty

460
00:29:20,760 --> 00:29:25,280
Speaker 2: nine ers stopped him four times, and ut I didn't

461
00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:27,640
Speaker 2: think anybody could do that, but they did. So you

462
00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:30,160
Speaker 2: got to give credit to the forty nine ers on that.

463
00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:34,960
Speaker 2: But percentage wise, I would say ninety nine point ninety

464
00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:37,280
Speaker 2: nine percent of the time, we're going to score from there.

465
00:29:37,560 --> 00:29:40,479
Speaker 2: And the game was just a three or four point game. Uh,

466
00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:44,360
Speaker 2: we had every chance to win. But the interesting thing

467
00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:47,560
Speaker 2: about that, and I think I would use this story

468
00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:52,040
Speaker 2: quite often my coaching career. Both of those both of

469
00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:55,600
Speaker 2: those teams record the year before were three wins and

470
00:29:55,640 --> 00:29:59,760
Speaker 2: the rest losses. And those both of the franchises did

471
00:29:59,760 --> 00:30:03,840
Speaker 2: the enough job and coaching wise and everything. It flipped

472
00:30:03,840 --> 00:30:05,840
Speaker 2: it around, and there they were, both of them playing

473
00:30:05,920 --> 00:30:08,680
Speaker 2: in the Super Bowl. And it can happen in one year,

474
00:30:09,360 --> 00:30:12,960
Speaker 2: and I would you know, sometimes you get off to

475
00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:15,640
Speaker 2: a bad start and you just have to have some

476
00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:19,560
Speaker 2: concrete examples to give the guys to say, keep grinding,

477
00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:22,080
Speaker 2: we're getting better, and this game can flip.

478
00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:26,160
Speaker 1: You became defensive coordinator in eighty four and you're widely

479
00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:29,720
Speaker 1: credited for developing the zone blitz or the fire zone defense.

480
00:30:30,280 --> 00:30:34,200
Speaker 1: Did you literally dry it up on cocktail napkins.

481
00:30:34,760 --> 00:30:38,040
Speaker 2: Yes, that's true. That's a true story. And it did

482
00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:43,240
Speaker 2: originate in Cincinnati, Ohio, and coach Sam Wise was the

483
00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:47,840
Speaker 2: head coach. And I was very fortunate there because Sam

484
00:30:47,920 --> 00:30:50,520
Speaker 2: was an innovator too, and he was one of the

485
00:30:50,520 --> 00:30:55,160
Speaker 2: first guys to no huddle, strictly no huddle and anything.

486
00:30:55,200 --> 00:31:01,440
Speaker 2: He would try anything, and probably most of the coaches

487
00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:05,680
Speaker 2: that were the head coaches at that era, particularly, but

488
00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:08,120
Speaker 2: even today, if I came in I said, look, here's

489
00:31:08,160 --> 00:31:09,680
Speaker 2: what I want to do. I want to blitz the

490
00:31:09,720 --> 00:31:14,040
Speaker 2: little guy and drop the big guy back into past coverage.

491
00:31:14,560 --> 00:31:18,720
Speaker 2: He would say, maybe when you become a head coach

492
00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:22,479
Speaker 2: you can try that, but not on my watch. But Sam.

493
00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:25,080
Speaker 2: I drew it up for Sam and went through what

494
00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:29,360
Speaker 2: I was talking to him, and he said, yeah, let's

495
00:31:29,360 --> 00:31:31,400
Speaker 2: take a look at it. He didn't even blink an eye.

496
00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:34,160
Speaker 2: So that's how we got to practice time and to

497
00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:39,600
Speaker 2: start doing it. Probably the spark that lit the fire

498
00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:42,200
Speaker 2: i'd been thinking about. I'm always been a stats guy,

499
00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:46,960
Speaker 2: and I kept the results of every play that I called,

500
00:31:47,040 --> 00:31:49,840
Speaker 2: every defense, and we all made our own reels in

501
00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:53,040
Speaker 2: those days, and I would study and see which plays

502
00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:58,040
Speaker 2: were the most beneficial for us and which were caused

503
00:31:58,040 --> 00:32:01,680
Speaker 2: the most disaster for us. And what I found out

504
00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:06,640
Speaker 2: was the pressure place had seventy five percent of our

505
00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:10,960
Speaker 2: huge place came off of pressure on the Dagham quarterback, which,

506
00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:14,400
Speaker 2: as I said earlier in this discussion, of Bobby Knight,

507
00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:17,040
Speaker 2: and I had that figure it out before either one

508
00:32:17,080 --> 00:32:22,280
Speaker 2: of us were coaching, but the other the flip side

509
00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:26,920
Speaker 2: of that was the biggest damage place where these pressure

510
00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:30,280
Speaker 2: plays and everybody blitzed in man coverage in those days,

511
00:32:30,280 --> 00:32:32,800
Speaker 2: and if one guy slipped and they picked up the blitz,

512
00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:35,480
Speaker 2: somebody was wide open. And it was never for a

513
00:32:35,520 --> 00:32:38,080
Speaker 2: twelve yard gain, it was for a sixty or seventy

514
00:32:38,160 --> 00:32:42,480
Speaker 2: yard game. So I al said, I would like to

515
00:32:42,520 --> 00:32:45,120
Speaker 2: find a way to keep this pressure on the quarterback

516
00:32:45,160 --> 00:32:48,040
Speaker 2: but still have a guy or two with his eyes

517
00:32:48,360 --> 00:32:51,760
Speaker 2: available to see, Oh my buddy slipped down over there.

518
00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:54,400
Speaker 2: I better get the hell over there and help him out.

519
00:32:54,640 --> 00:32:58,600
Speaker 2: And we found a way to a safer way to blitz.

520
00:32:59,200 --> 00:33:03,640
Speaker 2: And that is not my quote. Bill Rangebarker was a

521
00:33:03,720 --> 00:33:08,600
Speaker 2: great defensive coach. He has a great Ohio background, and

522
00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:13,360
Speaker 2: I wouldn't say we were friends, but we're definitely closer

523
00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:16,800
Speaker 2: than acquaintances because if you were from Ohio, you were

524
00:33:16,800 --> 00:33:21,880
Speaker 2: a good friend of mine. And Bill had retired from

525
00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:24,160
Speaker 2: coach and he he was the coach of the great

526
00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:32,120
Speaker 2: Miami Dolphins defense. Yeah, and he was he was the

527
00:33:32,160 --> 00:33:36,720
Speaker 2: guy that he was a great contributor. Let's say to that,

528
00:33:37,040 --> 00:33:39,880
Speaker 2: to that record. In fact, they'll be the only undefeated

529
00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:45,680
Speaker 2: professional team ever. But I would I would look him

530
00:33:45,760 --> 00:33:48,960
Speaker 2: up because he got into education and was an athletic

531
00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:54,200
Speaker 2: director and several different schools. And in those days, as

532
00:33:54,480 --> 00:33:58,880
Speaker 2: as scouts or as coaches, we played a much bigger

533
00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:01,760
Speaker 2: role in the in the draft than they do now.

534
00:34:01,920 --> 00:34:04,320
Speaker 2: And we did a lot of the scouting of our

535
00:34:04,800 --> 00:34:07,720
Speaker 2: which I liked. You know, you learned the people coming

536
00:34:07,720 --> 00:34:10,920
Speaker 2: out of college and you thought might fit with your

537
00:34:11,520 --> 00:34:13,960
Speaker 2: style of defense. And you had to do a lot

538
00:34:14,000 --> 00:34:19,759
Speaker 2: of traveling, but I at leastwise and they were going

539
00:34:19,840 --> 00:34:22,720
Speaker 2: to listen to what you had found, and you would

540
00:34:22,719 --> 00:34:25,080
Speaker 2: have an input. Would you have the final say no,

541
00:34:25,160 --> 00:34:28,400
Speaker 2: I'm not saying that, but you could really impact the

542
00:34:28,480 --> 00:34:31,960
Speaker 2: thinking of the team, which I liked. But I would

543
00:34:31,960 --> 00:34:36,480
Speaker 2: look up. When I was anywhere close to friends of mine,

544
00:34:36,560 --> 00:34:38,480
Speaker 2: I'd go in and see him. While I was working

545
00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:44,720
Speaker 2: a kid out for the draft, and Arnsbarker was in Florida,

546
00:34:44,760 --> 00:34:48,719
Speaker 2: I think pretty sure the University of Florida, Gainesville, not

547
00:34:48,760 --> 00:34:51,840
Speaker 2: Florida State, but it's one of the others sometimes, Stan,

548
00:34:53,280 --> 00:34:58,120
Speaker 2: I'm right there with you. The synopsis don't quite hook,

549
00:34:58,480 --> 00:35:02,439
Speaker 2: but I think he was at Florida and I spent

550
00:35:02,520 --> 00:35:06,720
Speaker 2: a little time, and I said, Bill, I watched everybody's film,

551
00:35:06,719 --> 00:35:09,000
Speaker 2: and I watched yours a lot, and I said, I

552
00:35:09,160 --> 00:35:11,759
Speaker 2: like some of the things you did. And I've been

553
00:35:11,880 --> 00:35:17,200
Speaker 2: trying to find something that would apply in today's game

554
00:35:18,120 --> 00:35:23,480
Speaker 2: versus particular pass offenses that we're playing against now, a

555
00:35:23,520 --> 00:35:27,880
Speaker 2: pressure on the quarterback without giving up the big, big place.

556
00:35:28,520 --> 00:35:31,719
Speaker 2: And Bill looked at me across the desk and he said, Dick,

557
00:35:31,840 --> 00:35:34,920
Speaker 2: all I was looking for was a safer way to blitz.

558
00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:38,040
Speaker 2: And soon soon as the words came out of his mouth,

559
00:35:38,120 --> 00:35:42,080
Speaker 2: I said, oh, that's exactly what I'm looking for. And

560
00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:45,680
Speaker 2: Bobby and I used to have our cheeseburgers and dying coach,

561
00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:49,000
Speaker 2: you know, after playing basketball for three hours, and we'd

562
00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:51,160
Speaker 2: be talking about the same type of stuff and how

563
00:35:51,200 --> 00:35:54,880
Speaker 2: could you do it? So I then, because I was

564
00:35:54,920 --> 00:35:58,680
Speaker 2: on the road scouting, I was going from Florida to

565
00:35:58,840 --> 00:36:03,080
Speaker 2: Los Angeles, which is you know, somebody I told me

566
00:36:03,280 --> 00:36:05,600
Speaker 2: just the other day said, well, didn't you just draw

567
00:36:05,680 --> 00:36:09,239
Speaker 2: that up in our flight or something on him. I

568
00:36:09,239 --> 00:36:12,319
Speaker 2: said no. It was a four and a half hour

569
00:36:12,480 --> 00:36:16,479
Speaker 2: flight and we ran out of cocktail nap, but that's

570
00:36:16,520 --> 00:36:21,200
Speaker 2: when I started it had his birth there, and the

571
00:36:21,320 --> 00:36:25,719
Speaker 2: hard part was linking it up with the coverage. And

572
00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:29,400
Speaker 2: the idea was pretty easy that would work, you know,

573
00:36:29,719 --> 00:36:31,880
Speaker 2: pressure from the quarterback, and yet he doesn't have the

574
00:36:31,960 --> 00:36:35,399
Speaker 2: quick outlet right away any place. And what they were

575
00:36:35,440 --> 00:36:38,520
Speaker 2: all trained at that time was if this guy's blitzing,

576
00:36:38,640 --> 00:36:40,840
Speaker 2: this guy breaks off, he's going to be wide open.

577
00:36:40,920 --> 00:36:44,839
Speaker 2: And they had it down. Walsh was one of the

578
00:36:45,239 --> 00:36:50,680
Speaker 2: big motivators in that way to attack the blitzers, and

579
00:36:50,760 --> 00:36:55,040
Speaker 2: so I spent a lot of time on it. And

580
00:36:55,360 --> 00:36:58,080
Speaker 2: if it hadn't been for coach, weis saying, yeah, go

581
00:36:58,080 --> 00:37:01,799
Speaker 2: ahead and do it, because there were several times we

582
00:37:01,840 --> 00:37:06,600
Speaker 2: went off the diving board into an empty pool because

583
00:37:06,600 --> 00:37:09,279
Speaker 2: it was hard to sink up. And in fact, you

584
00:37:09,320 --> 00:37:13,440
Speaker 2: never quit coaching it, and actually until I retired, because

585
00:37:13,440 --> 00:37:16,440
Speaker 2: somebody would come up with a pattern that hurt what

586
00:37:16,480 --> 00:37:20,440
Speaker 2: you were doing and you had to get the patch

587
00:37:20,520 --> 00:37:23,560
Speaker 2: on the leak in the tire. So that's coaching though.

588
00:37:23,640 --> 00:37:29,200
Speaker 2: And it did come from Cincinnati and we were running

589
00:37:29,200 --> 00:37:32,000
Speaker 2: it in eighty four. I would say it was when

590
00:37:32,040 --> 00:37:35,040
Speaker 2: we started running it and I just crossed my fingers

591
00:37:35,080 --> 00:37:37,440
Speaker 2: the first time I called it in a preseason game,

592
00:37:38,120 --> 00:37:43,279
Speaker 2: and the quarterback took his hot hot key and throw

593
00:37:43,280 --> 00:37:45,440
Speaker 2: it to the tight end broken out and Ray Griffin

594
00:37:45,520 --> 00:37:48,680
Speaker 2: intercepted it and ran back sixty five yards for a touchdown.

595
00:37:48,800 --> 00:37:50,919
Speaker 2: I said, I think we got something there.

596
00:37:53,080 --> 00:37:55,279
Speaker 1: It occurs to me those cocktail napkins would be worth

597
00:37:55,280 --> 00:37:57,880
Speaker 1: a lot of money if you had held on to them.

598
00:37:58,239 --> 00:38:03,359
Speaker 2: I think they're all in the toilet, old for Southeast Wyoming.

599
00:38:03,520 --> 00:38:08,560
Speaker 1: Now much more with Dick to come, including something he

600
00:38:08,600 --> 00:38:12,439
Speaker 1: would do for Zach Taylor if asked. But first, here's

601
00:38:12,440 --> 00:38:15,080
Speaker 1: a quick reminder that the Bengals Booth podcast is brought

602
00:38:15,080 --> 00:38:17,520
Speaker 1: to you by pay Corps, proud to be the Bengals

603
00:38:17,560 --> 00:38:22,240
Speaker 1: official HR software provider, by Alta Fiber future Proof Fiber

604
00:38:22,280 --> 00:38:25,520
Speaker 1: Internet designed to elevate your home, business and community to

605
00:38:25,560 --> 00:38:29,080
Speaker 1: a new level, and by Kettering Health the best care

606
00:38:29,320 --> 00:38:32,760
Speaker 1: for the best fans. Kettering Health is the official healthcare

607
00:38:32,800 --> 00:38:37,000
Speaker 1: provider of the Bengals. So David Fulcher joined the team

608
00:38:37,000 --> 00:38:40,359
Speaker 1: at eighty six. How much is he responsible for what

609
00:38:40,520 --> 00:38:43,120
Speaker 1: the zone Blitz or the fire Zone ultimately became.

610
00:38:44,160 --> 00:38:49,320
Speaker 2: Oh, he was a prime mover once I kind of

611
00:38:49,360 --> 00:38:52,280
Speaker 2: had the formula worked out, and the formula was pretty

612
00:38:52,320 --> 00:38:57,040
Speaker 2: sim simple. Mathematically, you could four as a normal rush.

613
00:38:57,360 --> 00:39:01,160
Speaker 2: Sometimes people rush three and at the extra cover guy

614
00:39:01,880 --> 00:39:04,440
Speaker 2: and in red zone now they're even rushing to Now

615
00:39:04,520 --> 00:39:07,319
Speaker 2: it's something I would never do. I'd i'd rush eight

616
00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:10,719
Speaker 2: before I ever rushed too. But they do it in

617
00:39:10,800 --> 00:39:18,640
Speaker 2: today's game. Uh. But uh, I saw what what we

618
00:39:18,719 --> 00:39:21,680
Speaker 2: were working with, and I said, well I can. I

619
00:39:21,680 --> 00:39:26,080
Speaker 2: can take five from anywhere as long as I get

620
00:39:26,239 --> 00:39:30,560
Speaker 2: containment on the side away from them, and I'm going

621
00:39:30,640 --> 00:39:35,280
Speaker 2: to overload protection and and then I can do whatever

622
00:39:35,360 --> 00:39:38,920
Speaker 2: I want with that pressure and still have an area

623
00:39:38,920 --> 00:39:44,759
Speaker 2: of situation in behind it. So uh, expressing them on

624
00:39:44,800 --> 00:39:48,960
Speaker 2: a piece of paper mathematically is easy. But in actual

625
00:39:49,200 --> 00:39:53,120
Speaker 2: getting to match up what the offensive coordinators are doing

626
00:39:53,440 --> 00:39:56,319
Speaker 2: with their routes and picks and stuff, it was. It

627
00:39:56,360 --> 00:40:02,440
Speaker 2: was a task. But when you started getting special athletes,

628
00:40:03,680 --> 00:40:11,000
Speaker 2: and I always tried to match our defensive scheme with

629
00:40:11,120 --> 00:40:15,280
Speaker 2: the athletes that we had. I I wasn't a strong

630
00:40:15,360 --> 00:40:17,920
Speaker 2: proponent of here's the way we're going to do this,

631
00:40:18,120 --> 00:40:22,440
Speaker 2: and you learned how to do this wellll not. People

632
00:40:22,480 --> 00:40:25,640
Speaker 2: were all different, and we all backpedal different, and we

633
00:40:25,719 --> 00:40:29,400
Speaker 2: all turned different and we have different strengths and minuses.

634
00:40:29,880 --> 00:40:33,040
Speaker 2: And my thought was, aren't we going to be the

635
00:40:33,080 --> 00:40:36,040
Speaker 2: best defense we can be if I'm asking them to

636
00:40:36,080 --> 00:40:38,160
Speaker 2: do the things that they do the best? So that

637
00:40:38,360 --> 00:40:41,359
Speaker 2: was always was a guy named Force on that. So

638
00:40:41,760 --> 00:40:44,320
Speaker 2: but once you got a guy like Folcher who actually

639
00:40:44,360 --> 00:40:46,840
Speaker 2: the closer you could get him to the ball, the

640
00:40:46,920 --> 00:40:49,319
Speaker 2: more places he was going to make. He was a

641
00:40:49,400 --> 00:40:52,879
Speaker 2: fine safety and good in space. One of our best intercepted,

642
00:40:53,080 --> 00:40:55,800
Speaker 2: believe it or not, but you put him close to

643
00:40:55,800 --> 00:40:58,200
Speaker 2: the line of scrimmage, he was going to cast a problem.

644
00:40:58,840 --> 00:41:01,799
Speaker 2: And that's the guy that got me thinking, I can

645
00:41:01,920 --> 00:41:05,239
Speaker 2: do anything in the world with this guy and protecting

646
00:41:05,360 --> 00:41:10,200
Speaker 2: behind with an area concept, and we can cause some problems.

647
00:41:11,120 --> 00:41:16,919
Speaker 2: In the Super Bowl that we lost in eight, that's

648
00:41:16,920 --> 00:41:21,640
Speaker 2: not right in eighty eight thinking, I think it was

649
00:41:21,680 --> 00:41:24,319
Speaker 2: three to three and a half against the forty nine

650
00:41:24,440 --> 00:41:27,600
Speaker 2: ers again and Volture had made ten plays in the

651
00:41:27,680 --> 00:41:33,600
Speaker 2: first half. But I had another guy like that in

652
00:41:33,600 --> 00:41:37,880
Speaker 2: Pittsburgh by the name of Paula Mala. But see, I

653
00:41:37,920 --> 00:41:41,560
Speaker 2: had already been down that road. And those kind of

654
00:41:41,600 --> 00:41:45,320
Speaker 2: guys are perfect for this because the opponent's not expecting

655
00:41:45,360 --> 00:41:47,879
Speaker 2: the safety to come that much, you know, and when

656
00:41:47,920 --> 00:41:50,799
Speaker 2: he does, the other safety had to go to get

657
00:41:50,840 --> 00:41:53,640
Speaker 2: over and get his coverage, and then they would just

658
00:41:53,719 --> 00:41:56,400
Speaker 2: break him away. That was the way they answered the

659
00:41:56,440 --> 00:42:00,160
Speaker 2: safety blitz because they couldn't they couldn't account for everybody

660
00:42:00,160 --> 00:42:03,239
Speaker 2: faking around up there and here comes a corner, here

661
00:42:03,280 --> 00:42:08,680
Speaker 2: comes a safety. So it's not rocket science, but getting

662
00:42:08,719 --> 00:42:11,040
Speaker 2: it put together it took me a little while.

663
00:42:11,800 --> 00:42:14,360
Speaker 1: That eighty eight Super Bowl, super Bowl twenty three, he

664
00:42:14,400 --> 00:42:17,840
Speaker 1: only gave up three points through three quarters to Montana

665
00:42:17,880 --> 00:42:19,960
Speaker 1: and Rice and that great forty nine ers offense, and

666
00:42:20,000 --> 00:42:23,360
Speaker 1: then unfortunately they scored two touchdowns in the fourth including

667
00:42:23,360 --> 00:42:26,160
Speaker 1: the game. Whether we're thirty four seconds to go, it's

668
00:42:26,200 --> 00:42:29,560
Speaker 1: been thirty seven years. Is there anything about that game

669
00:42:29,600 --> 00:42:31,319
Speaker 1: that sticks under your craw to this day.

670
00:42:32,440 --> 00:42:36,439
Speaker 2: Yeah. I had a defense Coach Weis told me, said,

671
00:42:37,440 --> 00:42:40,520
Speaker 2: I know when they're going to go to Rice, and

672
00:42:40,520 --> 00:42:42,399
Speaker 2: he said, whatever you do, I want you to get

673
00:42:42,440 --> 00:42:46,240
Speaker 2: me a defense that'll stop Rice on a particular play.

674
00:42:46,960 --> 00:42:50,239
Speaker 2: And I said, okay, coach. So I got it. This

675
00:42:50,280 --> 00:42:52,200
Speaker 2: thing where I had three guys on him. One guy

676
00:42:52,280 --> 00:42:54,839
Speaker 2: whacked him at the line of scrimmage and another guy

677
00:42:55,840 --> 00:42:59,759
Speaker 2: worked outside to the boundary and another guy worked over

678
00:42:59,800 --> 00:43:02,120
Speaker 2: in side to the middle of the field. I said,

679
00:43:02,120 --> 00:43:03,920
Speaker 2: there's no way they can get a ball in there

680
00:43:03,960 --> 00:43:07,600
Speaker 2: to him. So in that last drive that they had

681
00:43:07,880 --> 00:43:11,160
Speaker 2: after we ran to kickoff back to take the lead,

682
00:43:12,840 --> 00:43:15,120
Speaker 2: we got them either a penalty or a sack, and

683
00:43:15,160 --> 00:43:18,160
Speaker 2: they were in first or second down and long and

684
00:43:18,480 --> 00:43:22,040
Speaker 2: and coach Weis says, Dick said, this is this is

685
00:43:22,080 --> 00:43:25,720
Speaker 2: going to Rice. I said, okay, Coach, I said, because

686
00:43:25,920 --> 00:43:28,200
Speaker 2: if I had to put that menu on him, everybody

687
00:43:28,200 --> 00:43:30,040
Speaker 2: else had to go man to man, you know. So

688
00:43:30,120 --> 00:43:32,160
Speaker 2: I kind of crossed my fingers and I said, here

689
00:43:32,160 --> 00:43:36,120
Speaker 2: we go. It's my boss said, And we had them

690
00:43:36,160 --> 00:43:40,000
Speaker 2: all bracketed. There were so many Bengals over there, and

691
00:43:40,320 --> 00:43:43,400
Speaker 2: one guy broke and hit the other guy, who knocked

692
00:43:43,440 --> 00:43:45,799
Speaker 2: the other guy off, and all of our guy fell down,

693
00:43:45,840 --> 00:43:48,399
Speaker 2: and of course Rice picked it off and ran over

694
00:43:48,480 --> 00:43:50,239
Speaker 2: the middle of the field and got down the bout.

695
00:43:50,320 --> 00:43:53,080
Speaker 2: That's how they got down there to get their points.

696
00:43:53,160 --> 00:43:57,040
Speaker 2: So I wouldn't call that. I would have dissipayed my

697
00:43:57,160 --> 00:44:03,200
Speaker 2: boss's instructions. But it shows you that those types of

698
00:44:03,239 --> 00:44:07,080
Speaker 2: games are one play games, and a bounce here or there.

699
00:44:07,880 --> 00:44:11,839
Speaker 2: I mean, you could run that play into that defense

700
00:44:12,200 --> 00:44:16,319
Speaker 2: fifty times, and maybe Rice would make a fantastic cat

701
00:44:16,400 --> 00:44:21,399
Speaker 2: for a twelve yard game. Well he ran it forty yards.

702
00:44:21,520 --> 00:44:24,960
Speaker 2: I do remember that Rice was special. He was special.

703
00:44:25,880 --> 00:44:28,759
Speaker 1: You got your head coaching opportunity in two thousand. I

704
00:44:28,800 --> 00:44:30,520
Speaker 1: know you didn't win as many games as you would

705
00:44:30,520 --> 00:44:32,520
Speaker 1: have liked, but are you glad you got the chance

706
00:44:32,560 --> 00:44:33,239
Speaker 1: to run the show?

707
00:44:33,800 --> 00:44:37,000
Speaker 2: Definitely, because I ended up with a forty five year

708
00:44:37,120 --> 00:44:43,239
Speaker 2: coaching career and it was getting pretty late at that time,

709
00:44:43,280 --> 00:44:45,560
Speaker 2: you know, and I said, well, I'm just gonna have

710
00:44:45,600 --> 00:44:48,640
Speaker 2: to be a good defensive backfield coach because that's the

711
00:44:48,680 --> 00:44:50,480
Speaker 2: way it is, because it's probably not going to get

712
00:44:50,480 --> 00:44:53,480
Speaker 2: my opportunity. And let's face it, when you go into coaching,

713
00:44:53,880 --> 00:44:56,279
Speaker 2: you want to be the guy that runs the whole thing.

714
00:44:56,760 --> 00:45:01,600
Speaker 2: And so I've always been grateful for that opportunity, and

715
00:45:02,200 --> 00:45:04,520
Speaker 2: I think we had things started in the right direction.

716
00:45:04,719 --> 00:45:08,080
Speaker 2: They drafted Palmer the next year and went on how

717
00:45:08,080 --> 00:45:11,080
Speaker 2: many straight years that they made the playoffs, so they

718
00:45:11,080 --> 00:45:15,280
Speaker 2: didn't inherit a completely empty food locker.

719
00:45:16,800 --> 00:45:19,800
Speaker 1: Your first win as a head coach was October twenty second.

720
00:45:19,880 --> 00:45:23,279
Speaker 1: Two thousand had featured one of the most incredible individual

721
00:45:23,320 --> 00:45:26,239
Speaker 1: performances in NFL history, as Corey Dillon ran for two

722
00:45:26,320 --> 00:45:29,040
Speaker 1: hundred and seventy eight yards on a day where the

723
00:45:29,040 --> 00:45:32,600
Speaker 1: team only completed two passes. You played and coached in

724
00:45:32,640 --> 00:45:35,480
Speaker 1: the NFL for nearly sixty years, was that the best

725
00:45:35,560 --> 00:45:39,960
Speaker 1: example of the other team knowing what was coming and

726
00:45:40,040 --> 00:45:41,319
Speaker 1: not being able to stop it.

727
00:45:42,520 --> 00:45:47,600
Speaker 2: Yeah. I remember that game. We'd had a terrible start

728
00:45:47,680 --> 00:45:52,440
Speaker 2: to the season and we were losing by huge margins,

729
00:45:52,560 --> 00:45:56,520
Speaker 2: and it was a pretty dismal locker room, to be

730
00:45:56,560 --> 00:46:01,160
Speaker 2: honest with you, and our head coach, Bruce Couslin, I

731
00:46:01,320 --> 00:46:04,279
Speaker 2: went came back. I was lucky enough to be a

732
00:46:04,320 --> 00:46:06,640
Speaker 2: good friend of Bruce's and I came back to coach

733
00:46:06,719 --> 00:46:12,279
Speaker 2: for him with him, and uh, he resigned early in

734
00:46:12,400 --> 00:46:15,839
Speaker 2: the year. I think after the second game, the third game.

735
00:46:15,880 --> 00:46:21,359
Speaker 2: We've been traumced in all of them, and I said, well,

736
00:46:21,360 --> 00:46:23,640
Speaker 2: we're gonna we gotta have something that we can get

737
00:46:23,680 --> 00:46:27,280
Speaker 2: our sink our teeth into, at least, I said, because

738
00:46:27,520 --> 00:46:30,960
Speaker 2: everybody's down. And uh, I knew we had a good

739
00:46:31,040 --> 00:46:33,359
Speaker 2: running back and Corey Dillon and I knew we had

740
00:46:33,360 --> 00:46:36,680
Speaker 2: a pretty good offensive line, and uh, you know, the

741
00:46:36,800 --> 00:46:39,840
Speaker 2: NFL's a passing league. I said, we're not going to

742
00:46:39,880 --> 00:46:42,560
Speaker 2: pass that much. Fellas, we're going to run the football.

743
00:46:42,880 --> 00:46:44,680
Speaker 2: We're going to run it down their throat. We're going

744
00:46:44,760 --> 00:46:48,239
Speaker 2: to establish what we're going to be. And uh that

745
00:46:48,400 --> 00:46:51,640
Speaker 2: team fought that whole year and uh, I think we

746
00:46:51,760 --> 00:46:56,440
Speaker 2: got the maybe six did we get the six wins? Uh? Uh?

747
00:46:57,120 --> 00:46:59,799
Speaker 2: And uh I was proud of that, the way that

748
00:46:59,840 --> 00:47:07,319
Speaker 2: they they battled through that situation. But that day we

749
00:47:07,480 --> 00:47:11,520
Speaker 2: played Denver and they were good. They had a tremendous

750
00:47:11,560 --> 00:47:14,839
Speaker 2: record and they had only the only video they had

751
00:47:14,880 --> 00:47:17,960
Speaker 2: of us. We were throwing the ball forty forty five

752
00:47:18,000 --> 00:47:21,280
Speaker 2: times a game, so that's what they were preparing to defend.

753
00:47:21,719 --> 00:47:24,440
Speaker 2: And here they came up with this massive off tackle

754
00:47:24,640 --> 00:47:28,920
Speaker 2: pound ground and you know, we got some good bounces

755
00:47:28,960 --> 00:47:32,600
Speaker 2: and stuff like that, but it fit what we could do.

756
00:47:33,719 --> 00:47:37,359
Speaker 2: And a lot of times when the team is going

757
00:47:37,560 --> 00:47:43,120
Speaker 2: bad and they lose their coach, the players will come

758
00:47:43,160 --> 00:47:46,600
Speaker 2: together and say, hey, this ain't the coach. You know,

759
00:47:47,080 --> 00:47:50,160
Speaker 2: this is a group situation. We got to do better,

760
00:47:50,440 --> 00:47:55,040
Speaker 2: and it brings home to us how far off the

761
00:47:55,080 --> 00:47:58,880
Speaker 2: mark we are, and that group as a whole said,

762
00:47:58,920 --> 00:48:04,319
Speaker 2: we're better than than With that point, differential shows. So

763
00:48:06,280 --> 00:48:08,520
Speaker 2: we did the best we could do and we only

764
00:48:08,520 --> 00:48:12,359
Speaker 2: got two years. As I remember, So got me back

765
00:48:12,400 --> 00:48:15,279
Speaker 2: to working on his own blitz, which was pretty good

766
00:48:15,320 --> 00:48:15,600
Speaker 2: for me.

767
00:48:16,680 --> 00:48:19,040
Speaker 1: We're visiting with Hall of Famer Dick Lebow. When former

768
00:48:19,080 --> 00:48:22,200
Speaker 1: players talk about you, there's a combination of love and respect.

769
00:48:22,880 --> 00:48:25,839
Speaker 1: I don't hear very often from players when they talk

770
00:48:25,880 --> 00:48:28,880
Speaker 1: about their coaches. How did you manage to connect so

771
00:48:29,040 --> 00:48:30,480
Speaker 1: well with your players?

772
00:48:31,840 --> 00:48:34,840
Speaker 2: I don't know the answer to that. I always wanted

773
00:48:34,840 --> 00:48:37,520
Speaker 2: to be a coach, which I've spoken to you about,

774
00:48:38,600 --> 00:48:46,560
Speaker 2: and I watched coaches, but I said to myself, I

775
00:48:46,680 --> 00:48:49,959
Speaker 2: was blessed enough to play fourteen years in NFL, four

776
00:48:50,040 --> 00:48:54,319
Speaker 2: years at high State, four years in high school. That's

777
00:48:54,440 --> 00:48:58,080
Speaker 2: twenty two years of playing football. I'd seen a lot

778
00:48:58,120 --> 00:49:02,280
Speaker 2: of coaching situations. I'd seen a lot of interaction between

779
00:49:02,280 --> 00:49:07,200
Speaker 2: coaches and players, and I knew I'd been on the

780
00:49:07,239 --> 00:49:10,440
Speaker 2: receiving end of some great coaching and receiving end of

781
00:49:10,520 --> 00:49:12,840
Speaker 2: what I thought was not the right way to do something.

782
00:49:12,920 --> 00:49:14,719
Speaker 2: But you know, when you're with the team, you do

783
00:49:14,880 --> 00:49:17,920
Speaker 2: you got to do it. That's that's step number one.

784
00:49:18,000 --> 00:49:20,239
Speaker 2: Everybody does the same thing. It's for the good of

785
00:49:20,280 --> 00:49:26,840
Speaker 2: the team. But I said, I know this, when I

786
00:49:27,080 --> 00:49:30,560
Speaker 2: get my chance to coach, I'm going to coach the

787
00:49:30,600 --> 00:49:33,400
Speaker 2: way I wanted to be coached and the type of

788
00:49:33,440 --> 00:49:37,080
Speaker 2: coaching that I reacted to the most. So I had

789
00:49:37,120 --> 00:49:40,279
Speaker 2: on the job training all those years of planning. I

790
00:49:41,160 --> 00:49:43,840
Speaker 2: was thirty five years old when I started looking for

791
00:49:43,920 --> 00:49:45,680
Speaker 2: a job, and they would say, well, you don't have

792
00:49:45,719 --> 00:49:48,040
Speaker 2: any experience. I said, oh, well, wait a minute, Wait

793
00:49:48,080 --> 00:49:51,080
Speaker 2: a minute, I've been in the factory for thirty five

794
00:49:51,520 --> 00:50:01,600
Speaker 2: years here. But that's Mike McCormick, who I met in

795
00:50:01,960 --> 00:50:05,719
Speaker 2: the training camp at Oberlin College, I think is where

796
00:50:05,719 --> 00:50:08,600
Speaker 2: we trained in Cleveland for the Cleveland Browns, and he

797
00:50:08,760 --> 00:50:13,680
Speaker 2: was an All Pro tackle for the Browns offensive captain,

798
00:50:14,239 --> 00:50:17,120
Speaker 2: and he was taking his first year as the head

799
00:50:17,120 --> 00:50:21,759
Speaker 2: coach at Philadelphia Eagles and he hired me, and I

800
00:50:22,120 --> 00:50:25,000
Speaker 2: of course interviewed for a defensive backfield coach, but he

801
00:50:25,120 --> 00:50:29,520
Speaker 2: hired me as a special teams coach, which I did

802
00:50:29,600 --> 00:50:32,279
Speaker 2: for him, and I was grateful because at that time

803
00:50:32,320 --> 00:50:35,439
Speaker 2: it was an entry position and I got my foot

804
00:50:35,480 --> 00:50:39,160
Speaker 2: in the door at least. And after that three years,

805
00:50:39,200 --> 00:50:41,560
Speaker 2: I don't care if I ever see another punter kick

806
00:50:41,600 --> 00:50:44,799
Speaker 2: off as long as I lived, but that's how I

807
00:50:44,840 --> 00:50:45,840
Speaker 2: got into coaching.

808
00:50:46,880 --> 00:50:51,480
Speaker 1: You were recently a guest on Cam Hayward's podcast. Despite

809
00:50:51,560 --> 00:50:54,840
Speaker 1: loathing the Pittsburgh Steelers, I enjoyed listening to it immensely.

810
00:50:55,280 --> 00:50:58,680
Speaker 1: You shared a story that's probably well known in Pittsburgh,

811
00:50:58,880 --> 00:51:02,560
Speaker 1: but I had never heard it. It's two thousand and five.

812
00:51:02,640 --> 00:51:05,200
Speaker 1: You're the defensive coordinator of the Steelers. It's the final

813
00:51:05,239 --> 00:51:07,839
Speaker 1: game of the regular season. The team needs a win

814
00:51:08,080 --> 00:51:10,800
Speaker 1: to clinch a wild card playoff berth and that day,

815
00:51:11,520 --> 00:51:17,319
Speaker 1: your defensive players showed up wearing throwback number forty four

816
00:51:17,840 --> 00:51:21,879
Speaker 1: Detroit Lyons jerseys, your old jersey, as a tribute to you.

817
00:51:22,239 --> 00:51:25,120
Speaker 1: I think they paid three hundred bucks apiece to get them.

818
00:51:25,160 --> 00:51:29,080
Speaker 1: They were the legitimate jersey. Were you flabbergasted when you

819
00:51:29,160 --> 00:51:30,959
Speaker 1: saw your defensive players wearing those?

820
00:51:32,520 --> 00:51:35,960
Speaker 2: Oh well, they didn't wear them that evening, but I

821
00:51:36,040 --> 00:51:41,759
Speaker 2: was completely overwhelmed. And what they did was, with the

822
00:51:42,719 --> 00:51:48,680
Speaker 2: assist of the equipment managers, they took these fine wood

823
00:51:48,760 --> 00:51:54,400
Speaker 2: hangars and they hung my jersey outside of all their lockers,

824
00:51:55,000 --> 00:51:58,080
Speaker 2: And when you walked into that locker room to get

825
00:51:58,120 --> 00:52:01,799
Speaker 2: ready for the game, could just see forty four La

826
00:52:01,880 --> 00:52:06,719
Speaker 2: bau in Honolula blue and silver all around the room,

827
00:52:07,000 --> 00:52:10,600
Speaker 2: and it was a it was like something off a

828
00:52:10,760 --> 00:52:13,799
Speaker 2: movie scene, you know. And I looked at it and

829
00:52:13,880 --> 00:52:18,080
Speaker 2: it's done me and I said, oh my god. I said,

830
00:52:18,960 --> 00:52:22,279
Speaker 2: this is so flattering, you know. And I went and

831
00:52:22,520 --> 00:52:25,719
Speaker 2: I didn't do it. I just stumbled into my locker room,

832
00:52:25,760 --> 00:52:28,799
Speaker 2: coaches locker room back in the corner, and I sat

833
00:52:28,840 --> 00:52:31,000
Speaker 2: there for a minute. I said, oh, I said, I'm

834
00:52:31,000 --> 00:52:34,839
Speaker 2: not sure this is real good. So I went down

835
00:52:35,160 --> 00:52:40,760
Speaker 2: and I got our our captain's Larry Foot and James Fergir.

836
00:52:40,800 --> 00:52:45,160
Speaker 2: I said, get everybody together, so all the defense came in.

837
00:52:45,239 --> 00:52:48,880
Speaker 2: I said, man, I said this this is overwhelming to me,

838
00:52:48,920 --> 00:52:51,359
Speaker 2: and it's just such a great honor. But I'm going

839
00:52:51,440 --> 00:52:54,360
Speaker 2: to tell you one thing. We better win this damn game.

840
00:52:57,800 --> 00:53:00,799
Speaker 2: I said. I may not even have a job, but

841
00:53:04,320 --> 00:53:07,840
Speaker 2: I wrote a book about the eight defense that set records.

842
00:53:07,840 --> 00:53:09,800
Speaker 2: I don't think are ever going to be touched because

843
00:53:09,800 --> 00:53:11,759
Speaker 2: of the way they played defense and the rules of

844
00:53:11,800 --> 00:53:16,200
Speaker 2: the game in today's NFL, but that particularly a group

845
00:53:16,239 --> 00:53:18,719
Speaker 2: of guys. They were just strong in every position and

846
00:53:18,760 --> 00:53:20,879
Speaker 2: they gave up no big plays. I don't think it's

847
00:53:20,960 --> 00:53:25,600
Speaker 2: going to happen, happen again. And there were a lot

848
00:53:25,640 --> 00:53:29,640
Speaker 2: of quotes in that book from the guys that I coached,

849
00:53:30,160 --> 00:53:34,040
Speaker 2: and it was the same feeling I got reading that

850
00:53:34,040 --> 00:53:36,480
Speaker 2: that I got that night when I saw those jerseys

851
00:53:36,480 --> 00:53:42,360
Speaker 2: sitting around there. And I can say this, all I

852
00:53:42,440 --> 00:53:46,360
Speaker 2: ever wanted to do as a coach was to have

853
00:53:46,880 --> 00:53:51,359
Speaker 2: my players accept me the way they did now. The

854
00:53:51,400 --> 00:53:55,080
Speaker 2: age differential. I never gave that a thought because I

855
00:53:55,160 --> 00:54:02,640
Speaker 2: knew I had to back the background and the exposure

856
00:54:03,239 --> 00:54:07,120
Speaker 2: to instruct people on defensive football. I mean, that's all

857
00:54:07,160 --> 00:54:11,960
Speaker 2: I'd done all my life, and I was always confident

858
00:54:12,320 --> 00:54:16,400
Speaker 2: that I could help any player that I saw. I

859
00:54:16,400 --> 00:54:20,880
Speaker 2: would study him athletically. They're all fairly gifted athletically, or

860
00:54:20,880 --> 00:54:24,520
Speaker 2: they wouldn't be in training camp in an NFL football team.

861
00:54:25,239 --> 00:54:28,640
Speaker 2: But we all have strength and we all have weaknesses,

862
00:54:28,680 --> 00:54:32,480
Speaker 2: and I would try to get everyone in a position

863
00:54:32,520 --> 00:54:36,560
Speaker 2: where they could apply their strengths and minimize their weaknesses.

864
00:54:37,080 --> 00:54:41,040
Speaker 2: And I over the period, I mean, just think how

865
00:54:41,080 --> 00:54:45,440
Speaker 2: many plays and movies and game films I'd been through.

866
00:54:46,200 --> 00:54:50,399
Speaker 2: I could help kids. And I found out that when

867
00:54:50,440 --> 00:54:54,560
Speaker 2: you're helping an athlete, he didn't care how old you are.

868
00:54:55,160 --> 00:54:57,960
Speaker 2: He wants to be better, he wants to get his

869
00:54:58,280 --> 00:55:03,520
Speaker 2: turn in the spotlight to So that's my only answer

870
00:55:03,560 --> 00:55:06,600
Speaker 2: for my longevity. That I could help them. I could.

871
00:55:06,719 --> 00:55:09,640
Speaker 2: I knew when I was telling them, and generally speaking,

872
00:55:09,719 --> 00:55:15,000
Speaker 2: in a game, after getting burnt enough myself personally on

873
00:55:15,040 --> 00:55:20,240
Speaker 2: the field and getting beat a lot in those years

874
00:55:20,320 --> 00:55:25,160
Speaker 2: with the Bengals and those we lost quite often, you

875
00:55:25,280 --> 00:55:29,200
Speaker 2: learn a lot, and you, if you're smart enough, you

876
00:55:29,360 --> 00:55:32,480
Speaker 2: just learned from what you can learn from and forget

877
00:55:32,560 --> 00:55:34,840
Speaker 2: the rest of it and go on to the next game,

878
00:55:35,000 --> 00:55:39,320
Speaker 2: the next play. And that stood me in good stead

879
00:55:39,360 --> 00:55:43,720
Speaker 2: because almost anything they were doing that hurt us. I knew.

880
00:55:43,800 --> 00:55:45,960
Speaker 2: I knew, I'd seen it before, I'd been hurt by

881
00:55:46,000 --> 00:55:48,920
Speaker 2: it before, and I knew how to stop it. I

882
00:55:49,040 --> 00:55:51,640
Speaker 2: just didn't have it prepared for that game because it

883
00:55:51,680 --> 00:55:54,520
Speaker 2: was by surprise, so I could adjust it pretty quick

884
00:55:55,160 --> 00:55:57,680
Speaker 2: and it kept me employed for a long time.

885
00:55:58,560 --> 00:56:01,440
Speaker 1: So for the record, you did win regular season finale

886
00:56:01,480 --> 00:56:03,680
Speaker 1: with the Jerseys in two thousand and five, and then

887
00:56:03,680 --> 00:56:07,279
Speaker 1: the following week you beat the Bengals with Pittsburgh in

888
00:56:07,320 --> 00:56:10,600
Speaker 1: the playoff game in Cincinnati where Carson Palmer got hurt.

889
00:56:10,960 --> 00:56:13,560
Speaker 1: I've got to ask you about something. After that game,

890
00:56:13,920 --> 00:56:18,320
Speaker 1: Bill Kawer mockingly did a Woday chant in the locker

891
00:56:18,360 --> 00:56:21,440
Speaker 1: room celebrating the win for Pittsburgh. Was that a little

892
00:56:21,560 --> 00:56:25,040
Speaker 1: uncomfortable for you just because of your Bengals ties?

893
00:56:26,960 --> 00:56:32,680
Speaker 2: Well at that particular time. No, because when my paycheck

894
00:56:32,840 --> 00:56:37,240
Speaker 2: came out on Monday, it had a Rooney not Brown

895
00:56:37,760 --> 00:56:46,000
Speaker 2: on the bottom line. But I still favored today the

896
00:56:46,040 --> 00:56:51,440
Speaker 2: Detroit Lions, Pittsburgh Steelers, and the Cincinnati Bengals. Those are

897
00:56:51,520 --> 00:56:56,279
Speaker 2: my three teams. I root equally hard so much in

898
00:56:56,320 --> 00:57:01,320
Speaker 2: my life in those three low cows. When they play

899
00:57:01,360 --> 00:57:06,719
Speaker 2: each other, I can't lose, and that's the only way

900
00:57:06,800 --> 00:57:12,680
Speaker 2: I know, because they were all so instrumental. And what

901
00:57:12,920 --> 00:57:16,960
Speaker 2: ended up. You know, I still can't believe it to

902
00:57:17,000 --> 00:57:19,760
Speaker 2: say this, but by golly, I do every now and then.

903
00:57:20,000 --> 00:57:23,040
Speaker 2: I'm in the Hall of Fame. Man. I can't believe it.

904
00:57:23,440 --> 00:57:27,000
Speaker 2: And it's all a product of where I've been, in

905
00:57:27,040 --> 00:57:30,280
Speaker 2: the fact that the Good Lord gave me a memory

906
00:57:30,320 --> 00:57:32,200
Speaker 2: that I could remember when I screwed up.

907
00:57:33,680 --> 00:57:36,280
Speaker 1: A few more questions for Dick Lebow. I was playing

908
00:57:36,280 --> 00:57:38,720
Speaker 1: in a charity golf tournament a couple of years ago,

909
00:57:38,960 --> 00:57:40,960
Speaker 1: and I was on the same team as Jimmy Burrow,

910
00:57:41,720 --> 00:57:44,400
Speaker 1: and when he heard that you were playing in that event,

911
00:57:45,080 --> 00:57:47,880
Speaker 1: he stepped down the accelerator on that golf car. We

912
00:57:47,920 --> 00:57:51,120
Speaker 1: went racing over several holes so that he could catch

913
00:57:51,200 --> 00:57:54,640
Speaker 1: up with you. Tell me about your connection with Jimmy Burrow,

914
00:57:54,800 --> 00:57:57,560
Speaker 1: and then obviously what you think of his son, Joe.

915
00:57:59,440 --> 00:58:02,640
Speaker 2: Well, I think the most accurate passer that I've ever seen,

916
00:58:03,000 --> 00:58:07,880
Speaker 2: and I go back to the nineteen fifties in Norm

917
00:58:08,000 --> 00:58:12,080
Speaker 2: Van Brocklin and Johnny Uniteds and those guys that they

918
00:58:12,120 --> 00:58:14,320
Speaker 2: couldn't move to get out of their way, but they

919
00:58:14,320 --> 00:58:17,480
Speaker 2: could throw that ball through the eye of a needle. Again,

920
00:58:17,800 --> 00:58:21,480
Speaker 2: there were thirty one players on the teams, and there

921
00:58:21,480 --> 00:58:25,040
Speaker 2: were two quarterbacks on There were twelve teams, so there

922
00:58:25,040 --> 00:58:28,520
Speaker 2: were twenty four quarterbacks in America that could pass the

923
00:58:28,560 --> 00:58:32,760
Speaker 2: ball accurately enough to have a job. Those guys were fantastic.

924
00:58:33,480 --> 00:58:38,000
Speaker 2: Burrow as the most accurate guy I've ever seen, and

925
00:58:38,320 --> 00:58:43,520
Speaker 2: that college team that won the national championship, it was

926
00:58:44,280 --> 00:58:49,320
Speaker 2: unfair and Joe would just put that ball and those guys,

927
00:58:49,440 --> 00:58:54,320
Speaker 2: they were all gifted, and that was I'm glad I

928
00:58:54,400 --> 00:58:57,439
Speaker 2: didn't have the assignment of trying to Curtail, and let's

929
00:58:57,440 --> 00:59:01,200
Speaker 2: put it that way. I've always been a huge fan

930
00:59:01,800 --> 00:59:05,760
Speaker 2: of Joe Burrow, and I've never got the meeting. Every

931
00:59:05,800 --> 00:59:09,200
Speaker 2: time it's going to happen, something comes up, but I'll

932
00:59:09,200 --> 00:59:13,280
Speaker 2: get a meeting before it's over. I know, Jimmy is

933
00:59:13,360 --> 00:59:17,520
Speaker 2: one of my favorite players that I ever coached. Like

934
00:59:17,600 --> 00:59:22,400
Speaker 2: I said earlier, in the National Football League, the coaches

935
00:59:22,840 --> 00:59:25,480
Speaker 2: did a lot of the scouting. They didn't have the

936
00:59:25,520 --> 00:59:27,800
Speaker 2: staffs that they had, they didn't have the money that

937
00:59:27,840 --> 00:59:30,800
Speaker 2: they had to pay all the people they've gotten now.

938
00:59:31,520 --> 00:59:34,240
Speaker 2: And when the season was over, you got a week

939
00:59:34,280 --> 00:59:36,960
Speaker 2: and then you started getting ready for the draft, and

940
00:59:37,000 --> 00:59:40,560
Speaker 2: you traveled once once you got closer to the draft

941
00:59:40,640 --> 00:59:44,600
Speaker 2: time and work these players out. And that's how the

942
00:59:44,640 --> 00:59:47,720
Speaker 2: combine came about. That people were spending all this money

943
00:59:47,760 --> 00:59:50,160
Speaker 2: flying all around the country was bring them in to

944
00:59:50,280 --> 00:59:55,600
Speaker 2: the Central's point and that's how that happened. But I

945
00:59:55,840 --> 01:00:00,080
Speaker 2: would look at video and see the players that I

946
01:00:00,160 --> 01:00:03,840
Speaker 2: wanted to go see, and Jim Burrow was a safety

947
01:00:03,880 --> 01:00:09,080
Speaker 2: for Nebraska, and he wasn't very big, and he was

948
01:00:09,320 --> 01:00:14,840
Speaker 2: tougher nails and smarter than tomorrow. And those are just

949
01:00:14,840 --> 01:00:17,280
Speaker 2: the kind of players that I found that you win

950
01:00:17,360 --> 01:00:21,880
Speaker 2: with you win with players that are unselfie tough and smart.

951
01:00:22,360 --> 01:00:25,640
Speaker 2: And I don't mean that they can split an atom

952
01:00:25,720 --> 01:00:29,000
Speaker 2: or anything like that. They're football smart and they they're

953
01:00:29,080 --> 01:00:34,400
Speaker 2: intuitive and they can react to range of motion and angles,

954
01:00:34,560 --> 01:00:38,000
Speaker 2: and that's all the secondary play is. So I went

955
01:00:38,040 --> 01:00:43,840
Speaker 2: out and met Jim Burrow and he's just a very

956
01:00:43,840 --> 01:00:48,560
Speaker 2: impressive person. And I knew what his coaching staff thought

957
01:00:48,600 --> 01:00:53,120
Speaker 2: of him. And he was maybe not big, but he

958
01:00:53,200 --> 01:00:57,040
Speaker 2: never missed his tackling. He was such an aggressive player

959
01:00:58,240 --> 01:01:00,880
Speaker 2: and he went after it with so much aff. He

960
01:01:00,920 --> 01:01:04,640
Speaker 2: always got his sky down. So going back and getting

961
01:01:04,640 --> 01:01:06,280
Speaker 2: ready for the draft and everything, he said, why are

962
01:01:06,320 --> 01:01:08,560
Speaker 2: you Burrow? You got him up here up here? I said,

963
01:01:08,960 --> 01:01:11,960
Speaker 2: I think he can play, and I think he just

964
01:01:12,000 --> 01:01:15,040
Speaker 2: played one year in America, but he played like nine

965
01:01:15,120 --> 01:01:19,120
Speaker 2: or ten I think in up in Canada, and I

966
01:01:19,160 --> 01:01:21,520
Speaker 2: think he could have played. I never was in a

967
01:01:21,560 --> 01:01:26,520
Speaker 2: position enough to give him another job. But when Jim

968
01:01:26,720 --> 01:01:33,520
Speaker 2: retired from playing, his former college coach came to IIU

969
01:01:33,560 --> 01:01:36,880
Speaker 2: in Athens, and Jim went down there to run his

970
01:01:36,960 --> 01:01:40,720
Speaker 2: defense for the coach's defense for him. And that's how

971
01:01:40,920 --> 01:01:44,600
Speaker 2: Joe Burrow as a youngster a toddler, came to grow

972
01:01:44,680 --> 01:01:48,400
Speaker 2: up in Athens, OHI and become mister football for Ohio.

973
01:01:48,920 --> 01:01:54,640
Speaker 2: So I knew Joe long before Joe knew anything about

974
01:01:54,680 --> 01:01:58,440
Speaker 2: Dick Lebo because of who his dad was. And I

975
01:01:58,560 --> 01:02:03,320
Speaker 2: followed Ohio you and Jimmy was a fantastic coach and

976
01:02:03,800 --> 01:02:08,520
Speaker 2: had great defenses. And then Joe went to Ohigh State

977
01:02:09,440 --> 01:02:14,280
Speaker 2: and they lost him to LSU and he became I

978
01:02:14,320 --> 01:02:17,880
Speaker 2: think the best college quarterback passer that they would ever be.

979
01:02:17,960 --> 01:02:20,480
Speaker 2: I mean, he never threw a bad ball, and the

980
01:02:20,640 --> 01:02:25,200
Speaker 2: more important it was, the more he produced. So I've

981
01:02:25,200 --> 01:02:28,280
Speaker 2: always had a family interest in that group, and I

982
01:02:28,400 --> 01:02:31,920
Speaker 2: want to meet Jim's wife also because I only know

983
01:02:32,120 --> 01:02:34,240
Speaker 2: Jim and the whole day Gum family, but I love

984
01:02:34,280 --> 01:02:34,640
Speaker 2: them all.

985
01:02:35,360 --> 01:02:37,960
Speaker 1: All right, Robin and Joe, if you're listening, Dick Lebeu

986
01:02:38,000 --> 01:02:40,960
Speaker 1: wants to meet the both of you. Dick, you famously

987
01:02:41,080 --> 01:02:44,280
Speaker 1: used to recite the poem Twas the Night before Christmas

988
01:02:44,320 --> 01:02:47,560
Speaker 1: by memory for your players in Pittsburgh for many many years,

989
01:02:47,640 --> 01:02:49,600
Speaker 1: and the whole thing so it takes like six or

990
01:02:49,600 --> 01:02:54,200
Speaker 1: seven minutes to recite. You live in Cincinnati now. If

991
01:02:54,280 --> 01:02:57,520
Speaker 1: Zach Taylor called you in December and asked you if

992
01:02:57,560 --> 01:02:59,880
Speaker 1: you would be willing to share that with his players,

993
01:03:00,440 --> 01:03:01,320
Speaker 1: would you consider it?

994
01:03:02,480 --> 01:03:04,720
Speaker 2: Oh, I'd do it in a minute, I do it.

995
01:03:05,400 --> 01:03:08,400
Speaker 2: That's a that's a poem for my family. When I

996
01:03:08,440 --> 01:03:13,960
Speaker 2: was a kid growing up, most our family was matriarch driven.

997
01:03:16,160 --> 01:03:19,240
Speaker 2: My dad was a great dad, but the women were

998
01:03:19,280 --> 01:03:24,440
Speaker 2: the organizers and the planters. And he had three sisters

999
01:03:24,480 --> 01:03:29,400
Speaker 2: and my mom and Christmas was we didn't have anything.

1000
01:03:30,040 --> 01:03:33,240
Speaker 2: But you would have never believe that when Christmas came around,

1001
01:03:33,240 --> 01:03:36,760
Speaker 2: you thought we were the Rockefellers. I mean, the women

1002
01:03:36,840 --> 01:03:41,320
Speaker 2: would go into dead all year long so that they

1003
01:03:41,360 --> 01:03:46,200
Speaker 2: could buy presents for the kids. And I wanted to

1004
01:03:47,440 --> 01:03:51,360
Speaker 2: thank them for instilling the spirit of Christmas and the

1005
01:03:51,520 --> 01:03:54,480
Speaker 2: goodwill to men, and and hey, it's a big planet

1006
01:03:54,520 --> 01:03:56,320
Speaker 2: and there's a lot of people on it, but there's

1007
01:03:56,400 --> 01:03:59,760
Speaker 2: room for everybody if we'll just take consideration for each other.

1008
01:04:00,520 --> 01:04:03,600
Speaker 2: And I wanted them to know that I got the message.

1009
01:04:03,720 --> 01:04:06,280
Speaker 2: And I said, well, I know what I'll do. I'll

1010
01:04:06,360 --> 01:04:10,200
Speaker 2: learn the poem the night before Christmas. Well, I didn't

1011
01:04:10,240 --> 01:04:14,360
Speaker 2: realize how many verses there where. It took me a

1012
01:04:14,400 --> 01:04:18,360
Speaker 2: long time, but I started saying it for my family,

1013
01:04:19,080 --> 01:04:23,520
Speaker 2: and then I always preached to our players that a

1014
01:04:23,600 --> 01:04:25,680
Speaker 2: team is a family, and the family is the team.

1015
01:04:25,760 --> 01:04:28,480
Speaker 2: I said, I should say the night before Christmas for

1016
01:04:28,600 --> 01:04:30,560
Speaker 2: my defense. That's the only thing that I had the

1017
01:04:30,640 --> 01:04:36,080
Speaker 2: authority to mandate, so I would do it for the defense.

1018
01:04:36,680 --> 01:04:41,560
Speaker 2: And Bill Cowher said to me, he said, Coach said,

1019
01:04:42,640 --> 01:04:44,920
Speaker 2: I heard that you said the night before Christmas for

1020
01:04:45,000 --> 01:04:47,320
Speaker 2: the defense. I said I did. He said, why didn't

1021
01:04:47,360 --> 01:04:49,760
Speaker 2: you do it for the whole team. I said, well, Coach,

1022
01:04:49,800 --> 01:04:52,800
Speaker 2: I didn't think that was probably my call. He said, oh,

1023
01:04:52,800 --> 01:04:55,840
Speaker 2: I want you to do it again, Okay, I said yeah.

1024
01:04:55,920 --> 01:05:00,479
Speaker 2: So I started doing it actually for the old team

1025
01:05:00,520 --> 01:05:05,960
Speaker 2: in Cincinnati and then in Pittsburgh also, and most of

1026
01:05:06,000 --> 01:05:08,760
Speaker 2: those kids that I coach that you know, you drop

1027
01:05:08,800 --> 01:05:10,840
Speaker 2: out of sight, they go all over the country, but

1028
01:05:10,920 --> 01:05:14,800
Speaker 2: when you meet eventually the first question out of their

1029
01:05:14,800 --> 01:05:17,240
Speaker 2: mouth are you still seeing the night before Christmas? And the

1030
01:05:17,440 --> 01:05:21,960
Speaker 2: answer is yes, I still am. It's just a family thing.

1031
01:05:22,360 --> 01:05:28,520
Speaker 2: I love Christmas, I love consideration for your fellow man. Basically,

1032
01:05:28,600 --> 01:05:30,800
Speaker 2: that's how I look at it, all, right.

1033
01:05:30,880 --> 01:05:33,600
Speaker 1: Final question. I do a segment every week on the

1034
01:05:33,600 --> 01:05:37,520
Speaker 1: pregame show called fun Facts that ends with this question,

1035
01:05:38,800 --> 01:05:44,120
Speaker 1: if you could meet anybody in history, living or deceased.

1036
01:05:44,880 --> 01:05:53,040
Speaker 1: Who would that person be? It might be Ben Hogan. I

1037
01:05:53,120 --> 01:05:55,720
Speaker 1: got to say hell oh to him one time. He

1038
01:05:55,840 --> 01:05:58,480
Speaker 1: was notorious for being focused on the golf course. He

1039
01:05:58,520 --> 01:06:00,600
Speaker 1: never even spoke to the guys he was playing with.

1040
01:06:01,440 --> 01:06:05,800
Speaker 2: And when they first built the golf course in Akron

1041
01:06:06,280 --> 01:06:09,760
Speaker 2: that there's still a hole major League golf tournaments on.

1042
01:06:10,800 --> 01:06:14,640
Speaker 2: I drove up there to see him, and I ended

1043
01:06:14,720 --> 01:06:17,360
Speaker 2: up before it was over. I followed him, I think

1044
01:06:17,400 --> 01:06:21,080
Speaker 2: four different rounds on four different golf tournaments, but on

1045
01:06:21,120 --> 01:06:26,959
Speaker 2: this particular one on the thirteenth hole, he never missed

1046
01:06:27,000 --> 01:06:29,160
Speaker 2: a fairway, but he drove this ball over into the

1047
01:06:29,240 --> 01:06:32,360
Speaker 2: rough on the right, and you know the fairways and

1048
01:06:32,600 --> 01:06:37,560
Speaker 2: Russ roped off at PGA tournament. So I saw there

1049
01:06:37,560 --> 01:06:40,280
Speaker 2: was nobody going down the right side of this road

1050
01:06:40,640 --> 01:06:42,880
Speaker 2: this hole because it was so far out of the

1051
01:06:42,920 --> 01:06:46,120
Speaker 2: way from where the course pattern went back to the left.

1052
01:06:46,880 --> 01:06:49,280
Speaker 2: And I took off. I saw where the ball ended up,

1053
01:06:49,320 --> 01:06:52,520
Speaker 2: and I said, I'm going down there because he's got

1054
01:06:52,520 --> 01:06:54,800
Speaker 2: to do something. That ball's right at the rope. So

1055
01:06:55,400 --> 01:06:58,640
Speaker 2: I was about three feet away from his golf ball,

1056
01:06:58,880 --> 01:07:01,400
Speaker 2: and I was the only person over there and there

1057
01:07:01,520 --> 01:07:05,200
Speaker 2: was a rope in me and Hogan and his caddy

1058
01:07:05,200 --> 01:07:09,600
Speaker 2: can walking up and the ball was ugly down in

1059
01:07:09,640 --> 01:07:12,120
Speaker 2: this rough down. Behind him, he was in the middle

1060
01:07:12,120 --> 01:07:13,760
Speaker 2: of a bunch of trees and he had a little

1061
01:07:13,800 --> 01:07:15,920
Speaker 2: tree in front of him, and then a higher tree,

1062
01:07:16,320 --> 01:07:19,200
Speaker 2: oh about seventy five yards on up the fairway from that,

1063
01:07:19,960 --> 01:07:22,920
Speaker 2: and in this in this day and age, it was

1064
01:07:22,960 --> 01:07:25,840
Speaker 2: like a four hundred and sixty yard part four, which

1065
01:07:25,880 --> 01:07:29,000
Speaker 2: is today's only driving an ad arm for him, but

1066
01:07:29,480 --> 01:07:32,960
Speaker 2: it was more than that then. So I'm not moving

1067
01:07:33,120 --> 01:07:35,000
Speaker 2: and I know they're going to move me. But so

1068
01:07:35,400 --> 01:07:38,360
Speaker 2: he walked up. I could see in his bag and

1069
01:07:38,480 --> 01:07:40,520
Speaker 2: I saw the club he took out. But he as

1070
01:07:40,520 --> 01:07:43,440
Speaker 2: he walked up, he looked at me and he said,

1071
01:07:44,240 --> 01:07:46,720
Speaker 2: that's not very good, is it? Looking at his lie

1072
01:07:47,000 --> 01:07:50,360
Speaker 2: And I said, no, sir, mister Hogan, it's not very good.

1073
01:07:50,800 --> 01:07:54,440
Speaker 2: I baby. It wasn't like a conversation or nothing. He

1074
01:07:54,560 --> 01:07:56,720
Speaker 2: just turned away and he walked up. Because there were

1075
01:07:56,760 --> 01:07:59,360
Speaker 2: people on the green. He smoked a cigarette all the

1076
01:07:59,440 --> 01:08:02,720
Speaker 2: time then, and he's up there smoking a cigarette and

1077
01:08:02,720 --> 01:08:05,880
Speaker 2: waiting until they got off the greame. It took maybe

1078
01:08:06,440 --> 01:08:08,960
Speaker 2: seventy eight minutes before they could clear the green. He

1079
01:08:09,000 --> 01:08:12,480
Speaker 2: walked back to that golf ball. He took out this

1080
01:08:12,640 --> 01:08:17,000
Speaker 2: little dinky ass five wood type club. I don't know

1081
01:08:17,000 --> 01:08:20,559
Speaker 2: what it was, but of course I said, Hogan on it,

1082
01:08:20,960 --> 01:08:24,839
Speaker 2: and he just threw that cigarette on the ground, stepped

1083
01:08:24,880 --> 01:08:28,559
Speaker 2: up there. He wired that golf ball out underneath the tree,

1084
01:08:28,600 --> 01:08:31,040
Speaker 2: out of that long rough underneath the tree in front

1085
01:08:31,080 --> 01:08:34,040
Speaker 2: of him, over the tree up and there was a

1086
01:08:34,160 --> 01:08:38,040
Speaker 2: little walkway up between two big bunkers up to the green,

1087
01:08:38,400 --> 01:08:40,599
Speaker 2: right up through that walkway, right up on the green.

1088
01:08:41,200 --> 01:08:44,640
Speaker 2: He didn't look back, sake back, picked up a cigarette,

1089
01:08:44,960 --> 01:08:53,559
Speaker 2: took off that. But he for golfers, he's probably the

1090
01:08:53,680 --> 01:08:58,360
Speaker 2: greatest mystique character of all, at least wise in my

1091
01:08:58,439 --> 01:09:01,080
Speaker 2: mind as a golf fan.

1092
01:09:01,200 --> 01:09:04,840
Speaker 1: That gives me chills just picturing Ben Hogan pulling that off.

1093
01:09:04,880 --> 01:09:07,560
Speaker 2: You should have seen a shot. Yeah, it was unbelievable.

1094
01:09:08,240 --> 01:09:11,920
Speaker 2: When he hit a golf ball I'd been watching mom up.

1095
01:09:12,520 --> 01:09:15,799
Speaker 2: It made a different sound than anybody I've ever heard,

1096
01:09:15,880 --> 01:09:18,720
Speaker 2: and I've heard a lot of great players hit golf.

1097
01:09:18,439 --> 01:09:20,679
Speaker 1: Balls sweet spot of the club every time.

1098
01:09:20,680 --> 01:09:25,040
Speaker 2: I swunk every time, It's just a different sound. Dick.

1099
01:09:25,160 --> 01:09:28,080
Speaker 1: This has been such a pleasure for me. I can't

1100
01:09:28,120 --> 01:09:30,320
Speaker 1: can't thank you enough. It's just been a joy to

1101
01:09:30,320 --> 01:09:32,000
Speaker 1: talk to you. I really appreciate your time.

1102
01:09:32,040 --> 01:09:35,360
Speaker 2: Thank you, Dan. I've admired your work and you're working

1103
01:09:35,400 --> 01:09:37,720
Speaker 2: with one of my very very dear friends, and Dan

1104
01:09:38,680 --> 01:09:41,599
Speaker 2: Dave Lapham and the two of you guys. You just

1105
01:09:41,640 --> 01:09:45,519
Speaker 2: do a great job and I know that you have

1106
01:09:45,640 --> 01:09:48,639
Speaker 2: the same loyalty to the Brown family and the Bengals

1107
01:09:48,680 --> 01:09:51,040
Speaker 2: that I have. So good luck to you this.

1108
01:09:51,000 --> 01:09:54,280
Speaker 1: Year, Pal, I hope you enjoyed that as much as

1109
01:09:54,320 --> 01:09:56,040
Speaker 1: I did. And that's going to do it for this

1110
01:09:56,120 --> 01:09:58,680
Speaker 1: episode of the Bengals Booth podcast brought to you by

1111
01:09:58,760 --> 01:10:02,960
Speaker 1: pay Corps, Proud to be the Bengals Official HR software provider,

1112
01:10:03,360 --> 01:10:07,360
Speaker 1: by Alta Fiber future proof fiber Internet designed elevate your home,

1113
01:10:07,720 --> 01:10:11,120
Speaker 1: business and community to a new level, and by Kettering

1114
01:10:11,160 --> 01:10:14,400
Speaker 1: Health the best care for the best fans. Kettering Health

1115
01:10:14,479 --> 01:10:18,000
Speaker 1: is the official healthcare provider of the Bengals. If you

1116
01:10:18,000 --> 01:10:21,080
Speaker 1: haven't done so already, please subscribe to this podcast and

1117
01:10:21,160 --> 01:10:22,880
Speaker 1: if you have a minute, give it a rating or

1118
01:10:22,920 --> 01:10:26,800
Speaker 1: share a comment that helps more Bengals fans find us.

1119
01:10:27,280 --> 01:10:30,560
Speaker 1: I'm Dan Hord and thanks for listening to the Bengals

1120
01:10:30,600 --> 01:10:31,840
Speaker 1: Booth Podcast