1 00:00:08,640 --> 00:00:22,080 Speaker 1: Bodybacks with Joseph Scott Morgan in nineteen ninety four, had 2 00:00:22,079 --> 00:00:26,440 Speaker 1: the good fortune of being tasked with being parper group. 3 00:00:27,520 --> 00:00:30,880 Speaker 1: It was a group that was actually established by the 4 00:00:31,000 --> 00:00:36,080 Speaker 1: National Institute of Justice through the Federal Justice Department, and 5 00:00:36,159 --> 00:00:39,720 Speaker 1: what we were tasked with was designing the national standards 6 00:00:39,840 --> 00:00:44,199 Speaker 1: for medical legal death investigators nationwide. And I got to 7 00:00:44,200 --> 00:00:46,040 Speaker 1: tell you, out of everything I did in my career, 8 00:00:46,520 --> 00:00:48,760 Speaker 1: pretty dull one proud of that. You guys can go 9 00:00:48,800 --> 00:00:51,800 Speaker 1: look at them. They're available there. Just go to nij 10 00:00:52,240 --> 00:00:55,080 Speaker 1: dot gov and you can search it out. It's there. 11 00:00:55,760 --> 00:01:00,960 Speaker 1: But you know, part of that journey to develop those standards, 12 00:01:00,960 --> 00:01:04,520 Speaker 1: which was roughly about a I don't know, probably about 13 00:01:04,520 --> 00:01:07,120 Speaker 1: a three year process, was the travel that I had 14 00:01:07,200 --> 00:01:09,440 Speaker 1: to do. And out of all the cities that I 15 00:01:09,480 --> 00:01:13,920 Speaker 1: traveled to while I was developing these, my favorite soon 16 00:01:13,959 --> 00:01:18,120 Speaker 1: became Milwaukee, Wisconsin. Now Milwaukee, for those of you that 17 00:01:18,280 --> 00:01:21,959 Speaker 1: don't know, is a neat place by virtue of the 18 00:01:22,000 --> 00:01:26,160 Speaker 1: fact of there's so many cultures there, and particularly German 19 00:01:26,200 --> 00:01:28,960 Speaker 1: and Polish culture, and growing up in the South, I 20 00:01:29,000 --> 00:01:32,600 Speaker 1: was never really exposed to their food that much, and 21 00:01:32,720 --> 00:01:37,480 Speaker 1: boy was food great. I really enjoyed it. And I 22 00:01:37,560 --> 00:01:41,120 Speaker 1: enjoyed the people too, and the beauty. We were like 23 00:01:41,280 --> 00:01:44,600 Speaker 1: actually on the shore of Lake Michigan. I'd always been 24 00:01:44,680 --> 00:01:47,160 Speaker 1: to the ocean, you know, I had never even seen 25 00:01:47,200 --> 00:01:49,360 Speaker 1: the That was my first introduction of the Great Lakes, 26 00:01:49,400 --> 00:01:52,240 Speaker 1: and it's just so gorgeous. The water was so beautiful. 27 00:01:53,040 --> 00:01:56,600 Speaker 1: But you know, around that same time, there was a 28 00:01:56,600 --> 00:02:02,040 Speaker 1: real evil that had occurred in Milwaukee in the form 29 00:02:02,640 --> 00:02:04,840 Speaker 1: of a person named Jeffrey Dahmer, and the guy that 30 00:02:04,920 --> 00:02:08,440 Speaker 1: headed up the committee, who was the chief medical examiner 31 00:02:08,520 --> 00:02:13,840 Speaker 1: for Milwaukee, had handled those cases. Today, on body Bags, 32 00:02:14,480 --> 00:02:17,639 Speaker 1: I want to talk about something that has just occurred 33 00:02:18,639 --> 00:02:24,720 Speaker 1: in the last few days in the city that I 34 00:02:24,800 --> 00:02:29,520 Speaker 1: really love, Milwaukee, and it is a horrific case, a 35 00:02:29,560 --> 00:02:34,960 Speaker 1: horrific case involving a young woman who was right on 36 00:02:35,000 --> 00:02:39,840 Speaker 1: the cusp of entering in to full adulthood, making her 37 00:02:39,880 --> 00:02:46,160 Speaker 1: way in this world, and unfortunately she died at the 38 00:02:46,200 --> 00:02:51,640 Speaker 1: hands of an apparent monster who wasn't just satisfied with 39 00:02:51,800 --> 00:02:57,280 Speaker 1: killing her, he also felt the need to dismember her. 40 00:02:58,440 --> 00:03:05,400 Speaker 1: I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this is body Vats. Dave 41 00:03:05,440 --> 00:03:08,560 Speaker 1: you ever been to Milwaukee. I have not, You have not, 42 00:03:08,960 --> 00:03:12,280 Speaker 1: no It's a cool trip I felt. I've been to Chicago. 43 00:03:12,880 --> 00:03:16,440 Speaker 1: Chicago felt a bit overwhelming to me. It's so spread out, 44 00:03:16,560 --> 00:03:19,799 Speaker 1: it's really big. I don't think people really realize how 45 00:03:19,840 --> 00:03:25,000 Speaker 1: close Milwaukee and Chicago are. It's literally traveled northward on 46 00:03:25,040 --> 00:03:29,720 Speaker 1: the interstate and you will eventually hit Milwaukee. And Wisconsin 47 00:03:29,760 --> 00:03:33,160 Speaker 1: itself is a beautiful state, green, lush, rolling hills. I 48 00:03:33,200 --> 00:03:36,120 Speaker 1: found the people to be very friendly, and if you 49 00:03:36,200 --> 00:03:39,240 Speaker 1: enjoy beer, it's a great place. And if you enjoy 50 00:03:39,560 --> 00:03:43,520 Speaker 1: German food, oh my lord, it is incredible, very rich. 51 00:03:44,440 --> 00:03:47,320 Speaker 1: And since this time, since back in nineteen ninety four, 52 00:03:47,320 --> 00:03:50,120 Speaker 1: I've been back up there many times and have just 53 00:03:50,440 --> 00:03:52,680 Speaker 1: fallen in love with a place. Love going up there 54 00:03:52,960 --> 00:03:53,880 Speaker 1: and checking it out. 55 00:03:54,200 --> 00:03:56,160 Speaker 2: I have to wonder, how can a place this so 56 00:03:56,240 --> 00:03:59,480 Speaker 2: beautiful that you have such fond memories of, that has 57 00:03:59,560 --> 00:04:02,840 Speaker 2: so much history. How can it be home to two 58 00:04:03,400 --> 00:04:07,680 Speaker 2: of the sickest murderers, Jeffrey Dahmer and now Maxwell allegedly 59 00:04:07,720 --> 00:04:08,560 Speaker 2: Maxwell Anderson. 60 00:04:08,640 --> 00:04:11,800 Speaker 1: Yeah that possible, Yeah, yeah, I think about that as well. 61 00:04:12,120 --> 00:04:13,600 Speaker 1: We know that there's evil out there. 62 00:04:15,000 --> 00:04:19,040 Speaker 2: Until this evil took place, it was exactly as you're 63 00:04:19,080 --> 00:04:23,600 Speaker 2: explaining it was for shaw Day Robinson. She was excited 64 00:04:23,600 --> 00:04:26,719 Speaker 2: about a first date with the guy. Shaw Day is 65 00:04:27,360 --> 00:04:31,560 Speaker 2: a wonderful, smart a person. Everybody liked, the person who 66 00:04:31,640 --> 00:04:34,680 Speaker 2: never called out at work. Everybody liked work. Everybody felt 67 00:04:34,680 --> 00:04:36,000 Speaker 2: like the world was a better place. 68 00:04:35,800 --> 00:04:36,320 Speaker 1: With her in it. 69 00:04:36,400 --> 00:04:39,120 Speaker 2: And she was excited. She was talking to people about 70 00:04:39,160 --> 00:04:41,600 Speaker 2: this date she was going on when they were texting 71 00:04:41,640 --> 00:04:44,400 Speaker 2: back and forth. Been her and Maxwell Anderson. You know 72 00:04:44,760 --> 00:04:48,560 Speaker 2: about where to eat? She said, I'm feeling seafood, feeling seafood. 73 00:04:48,800 --> 00:04:51,520 Speaker 2: So he takes her to a place he used to work. 74 00:04:51,880 --> 00:04:55,640 Speaker 2: That's where they went to eat seafood. And she goes 75 00:04:55,680 --> 00:04:58,920 Speaker 2: on this date just like anyone else goes on a date. 76 00:04:58,960 --> 00:05:02,200 Speaker 2: They had a fun time. They eat dinner. They then 77 00:05:02,279 --> 00:05:05,160 Speaker 2: go and have a couple of drinks, just being together, 78 00:05:05,240 --> 00:05:07,440 Speaker 2: getting to know one another on a first date. It 79 00:05:07,520 --> 00:05:09,280 Speaker 2: seemed like they're having a great time. 80 00:05:09,480 --> 00:05:13,800 Speaker 1: I think. I think. Actually the bartender saw these two 81 00:05:13,960 --> 00:05:17,719 Speaker 1: at the bar, didn't they Yeah, And they weren't fighting 82 00:05:17,760 --> 00:05:18,119 Speaker 1: or anything. 83 00:05:18,200 --> 00:05:21,760 Speaker 2: No, No, they were again, it was a great first date. 84 00:05:22,279 --> 00:05:22,520 Speaker 1: It was. 85 00:05:22,720 --> 00:05:25,040 Speaker 2: It was a great first date on every angle except 86 00:05:25,040 --> 00:05:28,200 Speaker 2: for how it ended. And how it ended was they 87 00:05:28,240 --> 00:05:31,279 Speaker 2: go back to his apartment. Now I point this out. 88 00:05:31,560 --> 00:05:34,480 Speaker 2: It was a great first date. They hadn't they didn't meet. 89 00:05:34,520 --> 00:05:36,120 Speaker 2: It wasn't a blind date. I mean, it wasn't like 90 00:05:36,160 --> 00:05:39,400 Speaker 2: they had no communication beforehand. They had you know, they 91 00:05:39,400 --> 00:05:42,440 Speaker 2: had built up a time together communicating with one another 92 00:05:42,880 --> 00:05:46,000 Speaker 2: to leading up to this first date. And then the 93 00:05:46,040 --> 00:05:47,760 Speaker 2: first date goes well and they end up going back 94 00:05:47,800 --> 00:05:51,120 Speaker 2: to Maxwell Anderson's place. That's how so you know, the 95 00:05:51,200 --> 00:05:54,000 Speaker 2: date wasn't crazy. They weren't violently fighting with or arguing 96 00:05:54,040 --> 00:05:54,679 Speaker 2: or anything else. 97 00:05:54,880 --> 00:05:56,640 Speaker 1: They well, they don't have any history. They don't have 98 00:05:56,680 --> 00:05:59,520 Speaker 1: any history. I mean, you have to have history most 99 00:05:59,520 --> 00:06:02,599 Speaker 1: of the time in a relationship to fight about something. 100 00:06:02,720 --> 00:06:04,479 Speaker 1: I mean, where are you going to find common ground 101 00:06:04,520 --> 00:06:06,800 Speaker 1: to fight on? You know? I mean this is a 102 00:06:06,839 --> 00:06:09,600 Speaker 1: first state. You wouldn't expect that. That's I think that 103 00:06:09,600 --> 00:06:13,200 Speaker 1: that's what makes this really a bit darker. 104 00:06:12,600 --> 00:06:14,520 Speaker 2: Which is why it fits into what you were saying 105 00:06:14,520 --> 00:06:17,440 Speaker 2: about Milwaukee, about the area, about it has all these 106 00:06:17,480 --> 00:06:20,080 Speaker 2: great things that you can put together with it, yet 107 00:06:20,120 --> 00:06:24,039 Speaker 2: it can it can also have this type of behavior 108 00:06:24,080 --> 00:06:29,160 Speaker 2: that goes well beyond anything you and I would ever imagine. 109 00:06:29,520 --> 00:06:33,599 Speaker 2: But now, Joe, ever since we went to crime con 110 00:06:33,920 --> 00:06:38,599 Speaker 2: last fall and did the show about people being dismembered, right, 111 00:06:38,760 --> 00:06:41,719 Speaker 2: and you talked about this is really becoming common. And 112 00:06:41,839 --> 00:06:46,720 Speaker 2: here we are again with another episode where a person 113 00:06:46,800 --> 00:06:50,240 Speaker 2: is accused of luring somebody and that O don't the house. 114 00:06:50,279 --> 00:06:52,479 Speaker 2: You can prove because of what happened. It's like he 115 00:06:52,600 --> 00:06:54,640 Speaker 2: had to have been putting a different face forward to 116 00:06:54,680 --> 00:06:57,839 Speaker 2: her to lure her through the whole night, very engaging, 117 00:06:58,000 --> 00:07:00,240 Speaker 2: very nice, And they go back to his apartment where 118 00:07:00,279 --> 00:07:04,320 Speaker 2: he then kills her and cuts her up allegedly allegedly. Yeah, 119 00:07:04,360 --> 00:07:05,920 Speaker 2: and then wait a minute, but that's not where the 120 00:07:05,920 --> 00:07:09,200 Speaker 2: shock ends, Joe. No, he doesn't just leave her there. 121 00:07:09,840 --> 00:07:11,720 Speaker 2: He doesn't just go and dig a hole in the 122 00:07:11,760 --> 00:07:17,080 Speaker 2: backyard and put No. He then allegedly starts spreading her 123 00:07:17,120 --> 00:07:22,120 Speaker 2: body parts around to just be found by people for 124 00:07:22,240 --> 00:07:24,440 Speaker 2: a shock value. Is the guy writing a script for 125 00:07:24,520 --> 00:07:27,880 Speaker 2: a horror movie? What makes somebody Joseph Scott Morgan get 126 00:07:27,880 --> 00:07:30,960 Speaker 2: to the point where it's no longer just enough to 127 00:07:31,120 --> 00:07:33,240 Speaker 2: cut a body up of somebody you've just had a 128 00:07:33,240 --> 00:07:37,840 Speaker 2: great date with, to cut them up and then make 129 00:07:37,880 --> 00:07:41,040 Speaker 2: sure that regular people walk in the street, earl walking 130 00:07:41,080 --> 00:07:44,160 Speaker 2: certain areas could find these body parts and hey, let 131 00:07:44,160 --> 00:07:45,920 Speaker 2: me draw a little of attention to myself and set 132 00:07:45,920 --> 00:07:48,120 Speaker 2: the car on fire so that that can draw attention 133 00:07:48,200 --> 00:07:48,760 Speaker 2: back to her. 134 00:07:49,280 --> 00:07:53,160 Speaker 1: That's a fascinating point. It makes me. You know, first off, 135 00:07:53,200 --> 00:07:58,120 Speaker 1: I've covered dismemberment cases and many times dismembered parts will 136 00:07:58,120 --> 00:08:02,240 Speaker 1: be packaged some and then they'll be deposited into some 137 00:08:02,360 --> 00:08:05,400 Speaker 1: kind of wastebind, and you know where you can have 138 00:08:06,040 --> 00:08:08,680 Speaker 1: a passerby that are a homeless person that's digging in 139 00:08:08,720 --> 00:08:10,760 Speaker 1: the wastebind they find this part. You know, it's a 140 00:08:10,760 --> 00:08:15,200 Speaker 1: big shock. And many times you think, well, the perpetrators 141 00:08:15,280 --> 00:08:17,760 Speaker 1: trying obviously trying to obscure what they've done, and they 142 00:08:17,800 --> 00:08:21,040 Speaker 1: want to put as much distance between themselves and those 143 00:08:21,080 --> 00:08:24,400 Speaker 1: dismembered remains. But what you're talking about, it actually makes 144 00:08:24,440 --> 00:08:28,520 Speaker 1: me reflect back to a series of serial killings back 145 00:08:28,640 --> 00:08:32,760 Speaker 1: in New Orleans many years ago that I worked. I 146 00:08:32,760 --> 00:08:35,439 Speaker 1: think I caught too. This guy killed a whole series 147 00:08:35,480 --> 00:08:37,880 Speaker 1: of people, but I caught too, and Dave, this was 148 00:08:37,960 --> 00:08:41,040 Speaker 1: really interesting, interesting finding when he would kill he would 149 00:08:41,120 --> 00:08:44,720 Speaker 1: kill prostitutes. And when he would kill them, first off, 150 00:08:44,760 --> 00:08:48,079 Speaker 1: he would redress them and only in their underwear, and 151 00:08:48,120 --> 00:08:52,200 Speaker 1: the underwear was always turned inside out and forgive me, 152 00:08:52,320 --> 00:08:55,360 Speaker 1: I can't remember the diagram, the name of the diagram, 153 00:08:55,440 --> 00:08:59,760 Speaker 1: But do you know the drawing that Leonardo da Vinci 154 00:08:59,800 --> 00:09:03,800 Speaker 1: did that shows anatomical men with the arms spread upward 155 00:09:04,000 --> 00:09:09,440 Speaker 1: like this and the body makes kind of an X. Yeah, yeah, yeah, Well, 156 00:09:09,520 --> 00:09:13,320 Speaker 1: each one of these bodies Dave was in that position, 157 00:09:14,360 --> 00:09:19,560 Speaker 1: legs spread, arms extended diagonally upward, and he would surround 158 00:09:19,600 --> 00:09:23,440 Speaker 1: the body with tires. And here's the one thing about 159 00:09:23,480 --> 00:09:25,760 Speaker 1: that case. And I came to the same conclusion that 160 00:09:25,840 --> 00:09:30,760 Speaker 1: you just came to about these deposition of remains. He 161 00:09:30,840 --> 00:09:35,560 Speaker 1: did not want individuals to smell the bodies, because you 162 00:09:35,559 --> 00:09:38,200 Speaker 1: can't smell anything if you've got a huge collection of tires. 163 00:09:38,240 --> 00:09:42,640 Speaker 1: All these bodies were found in like industrial areas where 164 00:09:42,640 --> 00:09:45,920 Speaker 1: there'd be like a big deposition of old tires, so 165 00:09:46,280 --> 00:09:49,640 Speaker 1: someone would have to visually find these bodies. And to 166 00:09:49,840 --> 00:09:53,160 Speaker 1: a person that discovered these bodies, they were shocked because 167 00:09:53,160 --> 00:09:56,040 Speaker 1: the body is decomposing and you can't smell it past 168 00:09:56,080 --> 00:09:59,560 Speaker 1: the tire. I actually remember conducting an experiment. We were 169 00:09:59,600 --> 00:10:02,200 Speaker 1: along industrial Canal in New Orleans and there was a 170 00:10:02,280 --> 00:10:05,480 Speaker 1: rotten dead catfish. This is on the second case, and 171 00:10:05,520 --> 00:10:07,840 Speaker 1: I picked up the catfish, and I put it into 172 00:10:07,880 --> 00:10:10,959 Speaker 1: the center of a tire just to test this hypothesis. 173 00:10:11,200 --> 00:10:14,960 Speaker 1: And the more tires are stacked that I stacked with 174 00:10:15,080 --> 00:10:18,840 Speaker 1: the catfish down at the bottom. You couldn't smell the catfish, 175 00:10:18,920 --> 00:10:24,440 Speaker 1: and rotten catfish stinks. And so I think that a 176 00:10:24,480 --> 00:10:29,679 Speaker 1: lot of this goes the deposition of remains here. There's 177 00:10:29,720 --> 00:10:34,240 Speaker 1: no rhyme to it necessarily. I'm really interesting if they're 178 00:10:34,280 --> 00:10:37,200 Speaker 1: going to do like a geographic profile in this case. 179 00:10:37,240 --> 00:10:40,680 Speaker 1: I think that this is ripe for this that try 180 00:10:40,720 --> 00:10:45,280 Speaker 1: to understand where these remains are deposited and what knowledge 181 00:10:45,280 --> 00:10:48,160 Speaker 1: would the perpetrator have about the location? Are you selecting 182 00:10:48,160 --> 00:10:51,640 Speaker 1: these because people walk their dogs, take their kids to 183 00:10:51,679 --> 00:10:54,920 Speaker 1: play in the park. You know there's a nice bench 184 00:10:54,920 --> 00:10:57,840 Speaker 1: where you're going to sit down. Is that the case? 185 00:10:58,280 --> 00:11:01,080 Speaker 1: Because if it is this, this is how bleak this 186 00:11:01,280 --> 00:11:06,280 Speaker 1: becomes really really quick. Dave, the idea here is that 187 00:11:06,920 --> 00:11:12,880 Speaker 1: not only do you want to murder Shade, but you 188 00:11:13,000 --> 00:11:17,760 Speaker 1: want to take her body and use it to terrify 189 00:11:19,120 --> 00:11:39,040 Speaker 1: an entire city. With my brother, Dave, educate me, man, 190 00:11:39,080 --> 00:11:43,440 Speaker 1: what's the Leonardo da Vinci diagram? Called again that I 191 00:11:43,480 --> 00:11:44,960 Speaker 1: could not remember. 192 00:11:45,000 --> 00:11:49,880 Speaker 2: The trouvian man and b I t are you v 193 00:11:50,040 --> 00:11:52,720 Speaker 2: I A n. 194 00:11:51,960 --> 00:11:56,559 Speaker 1: Listen everybody, Well, you can't say everybody. The lion's share 195 00:11:56,559 --> 00:11:59,160 Speaker 1: of the population has seen this. I knew what you 196 00:11:59,200 --> 00:12:00,520 Speaker 1: were talking about. I had to do. 197 00:12:00,720 --> 00:12:02,480 Speaker 2: I had to hit it. And all I could think 198 00:12:02,520 --> 00:12:05,040 Speaker 2: of when I was looking at it is Joe. I'm 199 00:12:05,080 --> 00:12:08,840 Speaker 2: glad you walked away from doing what you were doing, 200 00:12:08,880 --> 00:12:11,719 Speaker 2: and I'm glad you're teaching now because people like me 201 00:12:12,720 --> 00:12:17,080 Speaker 2: that are have reported and investigated things have no idea 202 00:12:17,280 --> 00:12:20,240 Speaker 2: about the things that you talk about on a daily 203 00:12:20,320 --> 00:12:23,439 Speaker 2: basis and explain. And I know that I appreciate being 204 00:12:23,440 --> 00:12:25,600 Speaker 2: a part of this because it gives me a different 205 00:12:25,640 --> 00:12:28,360 Speaker 2: look at things. And I'm not saying it's bad. It's 206 00:12:28,480 --> 00:12:31,400 Speaker 2: just I had no idea how people really I'm not 207 00:12:31,440 --> 00:12:34,640 Speaker 2: as shocked at things anymore. I'm more shocked. Does that 208 00:12:34,679 --> 00:12:35,160 Speaker 2: make sense? 209 00:12:35,760 --> 00:12:38,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it does. And I think a lot of 210 00:12:38,280 --> 00:12:41,679 Speaker 1: it is in with Chade's case. You think that it's 211 00:12:41,760 --> 00:12:44,960 Speaker 1: kind of this progression into hell if you will, and 212 00:12:45,160 --> 00:12:48,360 Speaker 1: you and it's in degrees, okay, and you begin to 213 00:12:48,360 --> 00:12:50,800 Speaker 1: think about you sit around, it's like you think about 214 00:12:50,840 --> 00:12:55,040 Speaker 1: how much more evil can this get? And that's a 215 00:12:55,120 --> 00:12:59,800 Speaker 1: terrible thing to throw out there because the world will say, Okay, 216 00:13:00,040 --> 00:13:02,240 Speaker 1: I'll show you how much more evil this can time 217 00:13:02,640 --> 00:13:06,160 Speaker 1: every single time. And I really think, from an academic standpoint, 218 00:13:06,240 --> 00:13:08,680 Speaker 1: I really need to start doing a study about these 219 00:13:08,720 --> 00:13:12,320 Speaker 1: dismemberment cases. We've talked about it several times. There seems 220 00:13:12,320 --> 00:13:14,400 Speaker 1: to be an uptick and this is happening, and I 221 00:13:14,400 --> 00:13:16,959 Speaker 1: think that it goes to a level of callousness that 222 00:13:17,440 --> 00:13:21,680 Speaker 1: perhaps that we haven't experienced in modern times certainly, and 223 00:13:21,800 --> 00:13:25,439 Speaker 1: ancient times perhaps, But it is the most evil thing 224 00:13:25,520 --> 00:13:27,520 Speaker 1: that you can do. And you know, just the other day, 225 00:13:27,679 --> 00:13:30,960 Speaker 1: I had the privilege of appearing on Nancy's program on 226 00:13:31,040 --> 00:13:34,800 Speaker 1: Merritt Street Media with her, and you know, Dave, my 227 00:13:34,880 --> 00:13:39,559 Speaker 1: heart was breaking because Chade's mom was on there with us. 228 00:13:40,120 --> 00:13:43,760 Speaker 1: And I can't and I don't know that any of 229 00:13:43,840 --> 00:13:46,920 Speaker 1: us can actually begin to fathom the depths of grief 230 00:13:47,080 --> 00:13:51,320 Speaker 1: and pain. It's hard enough, and this is real. I 231 00:13:51,360 --> 00:13:53,560 Speaker 1: know this is rote to say that it's hard enough 232 00:13:53,600 --> 00:13:56,680 Speaker 1: to lose a child, but when you lose a child 233 00:13:56,760 --> 00:14:01,240 Speaker 1: in this manner and you don't have your child whole, 234 00:14:02,280 --> 00:14:04,360 Speaker 1: think about that just for a second, and you're getting 235 00:14:04,400 --> 00:14:09,240 Speaker 1: notified by the police. Her body is being discovered piecemeal, 236 00:14:09,360 --> 00:14:13,800 Speaker 1: and every single time it's almost like Shaddy's mother is 237 00:14:13,840 --> 00:14:18,720 Speaker 1: having to relive this notification over and over and over 238 00:14:19,280 --> 00:14:24,760 Speaker 1: and over again. It is absolutely heartbreaking. Please please take 239 00:14:24,840 --> 00:14:30,800 Speaker 1: me back to that period where they made the first discovery, 240 00:14:30,840 --> 00:14:32,880 Speaker 1: because one of the things I was hearing was they 241 00:14:32,880 --> 00:14:36,080 Speaker 1: had discovered a foot with pink toneill polish on it. 242 00:14:36,400 --> 00:14:39,800 Speaker 2: You know, the when you were talking about them continuing 243 00:14:39,840 --> 00:14:45,040 Speaker 2: to find and her her mother doing the show with Nancy. 244 00:14:45,080 --> 00:14:48,800 Speaker 2: You know, she has refused all other invitations for interviews. 245 00:14:49,120 --> 00:14:51,360 Speaker 2: She only did the show with Nancy because she thought 246 00:14:51,800 --> 00:14:54,960 Speaker 2: one she loves Nancy, She'll do one national show and 247 00:14:55,120 --> 00:14:57,160 Speaker 2: if y'all want to know what I'm thinking, use that 248 00:14:57,240 --> 00:15:00,160 Speaker 2: interview with her. And that's what they're doing in coverage. 249 00:15:00,400 --> 00:15:02,920 Speaker 2: But the fact that it's gone on for almost three 250 00:15:02,960 --> 00:15:06,080 Speaker 2: weeks now is we're taping this and they're still finding 251 00:15:06,160 --> 00:15:11,080 Speaker 2: body parts in the last eighteen hours. The shot goes 252 00:15:11,120 --> 00:15:15,600 Speaker 2: beyond anything I can imagine in looking at when this 253 00:15:15,800 --> 00:15:18,920 Speaker 2: took place. Shaw Day would have graduated from college in 254 00:15:19,040 --> 00:15:22,440 Speaker 2: May with her associates degree, and she was a month 255 00:15:22,480 --> 00:15:24,360 Speaker 2: away from being twenty nineteen years old. 256 00:15:24,400 --> 00:15:24,760 Speaker 1: Getting it. 257 00:15:24,880 --> 00:15:27,560 Speaker 2: I mean not not even a totally legal adult yet 258 00:15:28,000 --> 00:15:31,600 Speaker 2: right now, and goes out on this date with Maxwell Anderson. Now, 259 00:15:31,880 --> 00:15:34,120 Speaker 2: we got two ways of going through this. Let's start 260 00:15:34,200 --> 00:15:37,080 Speaker 2: with her car found burning. Okay, let me start right there, 261 00:15:37,080 --> 00:15:39,560 Speaker 2: because that's when the attention started to get drawn into 262 00:15:39,920 --> 00:15:44,000 Speaker 2: Somebody's gone Shawdey Robinson's car is found burning seven thirty 263 00:15:44,040 --> 00:15:46,440 Speaker 2: in the morning. It's a blue Honda Civic. A witness 264 00:15:46,800 --> 00:15:49,760 Speaker 2: sees a man with a tan backpack get out of 265 00:15:49,800 --> 00:15:53,600 Speaker 2: the car. Man throws a lit lighter inside the driver's side. 266 00:15:53,600 --> 00:15:56,040 Speaker 2: Car ignites. Man walks away towards a bus stop. The 267 00:15:56,080 --> 00:15:59,440 Speaker 2: witness lags down passing cars. Hey call nine one one. Meanwhile, 268 00:15:59,520 --> 00:16:03,160 Speaker 2: Maxwell Anderson is seen carrying this tan backpack on a 269 00:16:03,160 --> 00:16:06,760 Speaker 2: bus camera, because there are cameras everywhere. The next day, 270 00:16:07,320 --> 00:16:11,760 Speaker 2: April second, her right leg was found at Warnamont Park. 271 00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:14,160 Speaker 2: The leg was found by a civilian on the beach 272 00:16:14,520 --> 00:16:17,840 Speaker 2: north of the pumphouse. There is a cliff leading down 273 00:16:17,960 --> 00:16:20,480 Speaker 2: to the beach and the leg appeared to have been 274 00:16:20,960 --> 00:16:24,360 Speaker 2: sawed off at the hip. Now, according to what we 275 00:16:24,360 --> 00:16:27,520 Speaker 2: were told from the very beginning, the leg appeared to 276 00:16:27,800 --> 00:16:30,600 Speaker 2: be long to a black female about five feet tall. 277 00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:35,440 Speaker 2: Still had pink nail polish on the toes. Joe. The 278 00:16:35,600 --> 00:16:40,640 Speaker 2: femur was snapped off. Yeah, the bone was sawed halfway through, 279 00:16:41,200 --> 00:16:43,640 Speaker 2: and all I could think of, and I hate to 280 00:16:43,680 --> 00:16:46,720 Speaker 2: even say this, but for anybody who has ever had 281 00:16:46,720 --> 00:16:49,440 Speaker 2: to cut a tree, yep, you're cutting a tree limb, 282 00:16:50,000 --> 00:16:51,920 Speaker 2: you get halfway through it, and you're tired and you 283 00:16:52,160 --> 00:16:52,760 Speaker 2: just snap. 284 00:16:52,920 --> 00:16:53,200 Speaker 1: Yep. 285 00:16:53,320 --> 00:16:56,120 Speaker 2: Is that what they're saying happened with her femur? 286 00:16:56,240 --> 00:17:00,160 Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, that would approximate it. And it's Look, it's 287 00:17:00,160 --> 00:17:03,840 Speaker 1: the same principle here and as you know, it sets 288 00:17:03,840 --> 00:17:06,120 Speaker 1: your teeth on edge, you know when you hear this. 289 00:17:06,720 --> 00:17:10,400 Speaker 1: Here's the thing when an individual would attempt. First off, 290 00:17:10,600 --> 00:17:13,959 Speaker 1: most people, and we've talked about this, Lord help us, 291 00:17:14,520 --> 00:17:18,920 Speaker 1: when most people, I think, endeavor to do a dismemberment, 292 00:17:19,040 --> 00:17:21,800 Speaker 1: they don't think about having to get through the soft tissue, 293 00:17:22,160 --> 00:17:25,199 Speaker 1: and it gets very frustrating, particularly if you're using and 294 00:17:25,280 --> 00:17:27,720 Speaker 1: at this point we don't know what type of tool 295 00:17:27,840 --> 00:17:30,679 Speaker 1: was used, and I've had cases involving I think of 296 00:17:30,880 --> 00:17:32,880 Speaker 1: this young lady out in Seattle I covered a couple 297 00:17:32,920 --> 00:17:36,119 Speaker 1: of years ago. He had used a bosaw like you 298 00:17:36,280 --> 00:17:39,879 Speaker 1: trim your bushes with and done that in the bathtub, 299 00:17:39,880 --> 00:17:42,000 Speaker 1: and it's very rough going. If you know, in the 300 00:17:42,000 --> 00:17:44,880 Speaker 1: morgue we have scalpels, you know, in these sorts of instruments, 301 00:17:44,960 --> 00:17:47,640 Speaker 1: very sharp scissors, and we can go through soft tissue 302 00:17:47,640 --> 00:17:50,200 Speaker 1: to get to the bone. But if the only instrument 303 00:17:50,240 --> 00:17:53,639 Speaker 1: that you have is in fact a saw, and it 304 00:17:53,680 --> 00:17:56,880 Speaker 1: can even be a power saw, that is not created 305 00:17:56,960 --> 00:18:01,120 Speaker 1: in order to go through soft tissue. And so when 306 00:18:01,200 --> 00:18:05,320 Speaker 1: you get down to the actual shaft of a long bone. 307 00:18:05,320 --> 00:18:08,440 Speaker 1: You had mentioned the femur, which you have many times, 308 00:18:08,600 --> 00:18:13,600 Speaker 1: is that it's just like sawing wood. Forensic anthropologists study 309 00:18:13,640 --> 00:18:17,920 Speaker 1: these things where and there are some forensic anthropologists, believe 310 00:18:17,920 --> 00:18:20,960 Speaker 1: it or not, that specialize indismemberment. That's all they study. 311 00:18:21,040 --> 00:18:24,000 Speaker 1: They study tool marks on bones. It's a fascinating field. 312 00:18:24,440 --> 00:18:27,280 Speaker 1: It's gruesome, but it's a fascinating feel from that perspective. 313 00:18:27,680 --> 00:18:30,040 Speaker 1: They'll have these stop starts, and you can identify with 314 00:18:30,080 --> 00:18:32,120 Speaker 1: this with sawing a piece of wood. Have you ever 315 00:18:32,200 --> 00:18:34,840 Speaker 1: saw it and then gotten out of the groove. Well, 316 00:18:34,880 --> 00:18:37,480 Speaker 1: every time you do that, you put an additional mark 317 00:18:37,560 --> 00:18:39,720 Speaker 1: on the piece of wood. Same thing applies to bone. 318 00:18:40,040 --> 00:18:43,080 Speaker 1: It's hard work. It makes no mistake about it. If 319 00:18:43,119 --> 00:18:45,760 Speaker 1: you're so frustrated and you've gotten down and this is 320 00:18:45,840 --> 00:18:48,520 Speaker 1: just one limb we're talking about, Dave, one limb it 321 00:18:48,600 --> 00:18:50,879 Speaker 1: has to be then if you get frustrated, you got 322 00:18:50,960 --> 00:18:53,800 Speaker 1: to snap it off and then detach the rest of 323 00:18:53,840 --> 00:18:56,719 Speaker 1: the soft tissue. You're frustrated, you've burned up all over 324 00:18:56,840 --> 00:18:58,800 Speaker 1: your energy. Now what are you going to do? Well? 325 00:18:59,119 --> 00:19:02,399 Speaker 1: Maybe the perpetrator thinking about you know, I'm going to 326 00:19:02,480 --> 00:19:05,960 Speaker 1: take these items out, these elements of the body and 327 00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:10,040 Speaker 1: deposit them in various places as I build back up 328 00:19:10,080 --> 00:19:12,639 Speaker 1: my energy. Then you go back and you do it again. 329 00:19:12,840 --> 00:19:14,920 Speaker 1: You do it again, you do it again, and then 330 00:19:15,240 --> 00:19:18,720 Speaker 1: every time you're moving out of the house or whatever, 331 00:19:19,320 --> 00:19:22,880 Speaker 1: you're redepositing. Maybe at some point in time he saw 332 00:19:22,920 --> 00:19:27,760 Speaker 1: it off, two appendages, and in one run he deposited 333 00:19:27,800 --> 00:19:32,240 Speaker 1: them in various locations. Who knows, we're going to find out, 334 00:19:32,480 --> 00:19:36,760 Speaker 1: but there will be a tremendous amount of evidence. I 335 00:19:36,800 --> 00:19:42,000 Speaker 1: think in the basement of this home. What really kind 336 00:19:42,040 --> 00:19:46,200 Speaker 1: of peaks my curiosity about this is not so much 337 00:19:46,280 --> 00:19:49,719 Speaker 1: to dismemberment, as ghastly as that is. Are they going 338 00:19:49,760 --> 00:19:53,159 Speaker 1: to be capable of determining her cause of death? We 339 00:19:53,200 --> 00:19:57,399 Speaker 1: know the Manner's homicide. But how degraded were the remains 340 00:19:58,040 --> 00:20:01,840 Speaker 1: of how traumatized postmar I'm trump, I'm talking about where 341 00:20:01,880 --> 00:20:04,120 Speaker 1: the remains is there's a bullet hole, if there's an 342 00:20:04,200 --> 00:20:06,600 Speaker 1: injury to the neck, this sort of thing. Is it 343 00:20:06,640 --> 00:20:08,680 Speaker 1: going to be compromised so that you're not going to 344 00:20:08,720 --> 00:20:12,760 Speaker 1: be able to make out truly what happened? I think 345 00:20:12,800 --> 00:20:15,840 Speaker 1: that that that's going to be difficult. And you know, 346 00:20:16,040 --> 00:20:20,359 Speaker 1: the folks at the Milwaukee County Medical Examiner's office, they 347 00:20:20,400 --> 00:20:23,040 Speaker 1: could do this one of two ways. They can say, Okay, 348 00:20:23,640 --> 00:20:28,440 Speaker 1: we're going to take this recently arrived remain and set 349 00:20:28,480 --> 00:20:34,080 Speaker 1: it aside and before we do the totality of the examination. 350 00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:36,840 Speaker 1: Because they know that they've got this young woman missing, 351 00:20:37,080 --> 00:20:40,080 Speaker 1: they're finding parts, so they wait until everything comes in. 352 00:20:40,400 --> 00:20:45,000 Speaker 1: Or a question to ask is are they examining each 353 00:20:45,040 --> 00:20:48,879 Speaker 1: remain as it comes in. My suspicion is they're waiting 354 00:20:48,960 --> 00:20:52,040 Speaker 1: until they get the body in totality, you know, until 355 00:20:52,080 --> 00:20:54,320 Speaker 1: they've recovered as much as they possibly can. 356 00:20:54,440 --> 00:20:58,080 Speaker 2: I think, Dave, with the leg being found, we didn't 357 00:20:58,080 --> 00:21:00,000 Speaker 2: think of the first leg being found being the first 358 00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:03,399 Speaker 2: first body part deposited. And that's not always the case. 359 00:21:03,560 --> 00:21:04,960 Speaker 2: It just happened to be the first one that was 360 00:21:05,000 --> 00:21:07,719 Speaker 2: fast one found. But there are things that they were 361 00:21:07,720 --> 00:21:11,320 Speaker 2: talking about where it was found. Are we talking about 362 00:21:11,440 --> 00:21:14,480 Speaker 2: the alleged perpetrator throwing it in the water and it 363 00:21:14,520 --> 00:21:17,439 Speaker 2: floating up on the shore. Can you imagine what is 364 00:21:17,480 --> 00:21:19,159 Speaker 2: he doing? Is he trying to hide it? What's he 365 00:21:19,200 --> 00:21:20,960 Speaker 2: trying to do? Is he trying to set it so 366 00:21:21,000 --> 00:21:23,359 Speaker 2: people will find it? Trying to throw it up? I 367 00:21:23,400 --> 00:21:27,560 Speaker 2: mean yeah to me, I mean, look allegedly again allegedly, 368 00:21:27,600 --> 00:21:30,160 Speaker 2: here we go. One of the things that's been put forward, 369 00:21:30,160 --> 00:21:34,080 Speaker 2: and I find this quite fascinating, that is that there 370 00:21:34,160 --> 00:21:36,520 Speaker 2: was a hole dug in his backyard. 371 00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:38,239 Speaker 1: Of that home. And this home, by the way, when 372 00:21:38,280 --> 00:21:41,680 Speaker 1: you see the images of it, is neat as a pin. 373 00:21:42,760 --> 00:21:45,840 Speaker 1: The grass is very well groomed, the house is very 374 00:21:45,840 --> 00:21:48,560 Speaker 1: well kept, it would appear. And you look at this 375 00:21:48,640 --> 00:21:51,280 Speaker 1: and you think, okay, you've dug a hole in the backyard, 376 00:21:51,320 --> 00:21:54,720 Speaker 1: and you're thinking, does this go to premeditation? You know, 377 00:21:54,760 --> 00:21:58,600 Speaker 1: what's the purpose of having this hole? Are you gonna 378 00:21:58,760 --> 00:22:00,280 Speaker 1: you know, it's spring time, or you think about putting 379 00:22:00,280 --> 00:22:03,199 Speaker 1: in a flower bed or putting in tomatoes? Because I 380 00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:06,320 Speaker 1: don't know, maybe that's what a defense attorney would say. 381 00:22:07,080 --> 00:22:09,960 Speaker 1: And you know you're it's a free country. You're welcome 382 00:22:10,040 --> 00:22:11,919 Speaker 1: digs me holes in your yard. I guess as you 383 00:22:11,960 --> 00:22:15,960 Speaker 1: want to. But from an investigative standpoint, if I'm seeing this, 384 00:22:16,119 --> 00:22:20,480 Speaker 1: I'm thinking, well, maybe thought it wasn't such a good 385 00:22:20,520 --> 00:22:26,480 Speaker 1: idea to have this deceased young lady on his premises 386 00:22:27,480 --> 00:22:30,000 Speaker 1: in the wake of the fact that he has been 387 00:22:30,080 --> 00:22:34,400 Speaker 1: spotted in a bar and a restaurant with her. He's 388 00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:38,400 Speaker 1: the last person that was seen with her alive. They're 389 00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:42,159 Speaker 1: going to come asking questions, and he doesn't want to 390 00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:47,679 Speaker 1: have to explain why she is buried in his backyard. 391 00:23:06,440 --> 00:23:09,320 Speaker 1: Years ago, I actually had a case, actually it was 392 00:23:09,359 --> 00:23:13,240 Speaker 1: a colleague of mine that had a case where a 393 00:23:13,320 --> 00:23:18,720 Speaker 1: plastic grocery store bag was found and contained within the 394 00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:23,159 Speaker 1: bag was a head. And I remember the feeling that 395 00:23:23,240 --> 00:23:27,080 Speaker 1: I had in the wake of that discovery, and all 396 00:23:27,119 --> 00:23:28,879 Speaker 1: of us did. I think many of us at the 397 00:23:28,920 --> 00:23:33,359 Speaker 1: Emmy's office had that feeling, the same idea, Well, when's 398 00:23:33,400 --> 00:23:36,280 Speaker 1: the rest of the body going to show up? And 399 00:23:36,280 --> 00:23:40,320 Speaker 1: in that case, all we were left with was ahead. 400 00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:43,359 Speaker 1: Nothing else ever showed up. And that does happen. It 401 00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:47,480 Speaker 1: does happen. So you take that idea, and I'm thinking 402 00:23:47,520 --> 00:23:50,720 Speaker 1: about the investigative staff at the Emmy's office, and of 403 00:23:50,760 --> 00:23:54,160 Speaker 1: course the police that are working this case. And I'm thinking, Dave, 404 00:23:54,240 --> 00:23:56,840 Speaker 1: well are they Are they sitting on pens and needles? 405 00:23:56,840 --> 00:23:59,199 Speaker 1: Can you imagine being the homicide detective assigned to this? 406 00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:03,960 Speaker 1: And You're thinking, Okay, let's take an inventory of what 407 00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:06,680 Speaker 1: we have at this point? Where else can we look? 408 00:24:06,840 --> 00:24:10,439 Speaker 1: Is the body ever going to be reconstituted to some level? 409 00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:13,359 Speaker 1: Because I got to tell you, just listening to Shade's 410 00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:16,480 Speaker 1: mother the other day, she ain't gonna have burial until 411 00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:20,719 Speaker 1: she has her baby back. And that's just that's the 412 00:24:20,760 --> 00:24:24,240 Speaker 1: reality of it. What do we have up to this point? 413 00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:26,440 Speaker 1: And when were these items discovered? 414 00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:29,560 Speaker 2: Two things that got me, Joe. One was the fire man. 415 00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:31,919 Speaker 2: We'll come to that. But my first thought when I 416 00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:34,840 Speaker 2: heard the car was on fire, I thought he did 417 00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:38,040 Speaker 2: it to get rid of evidence. The alleged perpetrator did 418 00:24:38,040 --> 00:24:39,760 Speaker 2: it to get rid of evidence. But if you've listened 419 00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:42,639 Speaker 2: to Joseph Scott Morgan long and if you know that 420 00:24:42,760 --> 00:24:46,440 Speaker 2: the perpetrator, by lighting it on fire, didn't destroy evidence. 421 00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:49,359 Speaker 2: He actually probably locked some evidence in we'll get into that. 422 00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:53,000 Speaker 2: April first, Shade Robinson has disappeared. Had a date that 423 00:24:53,080 --> 00:24:57,000 Speaker 2: evening April second, seven thirty am. Her car is on fire. 424 00:24:57,080 --> 00:24:59,800 Speaker 2: It's found burning in an alley five point thirty That afternoon, 425 00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:02,960 Speaker 2: her car is at seven thirty am on fire. She's 426 00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:05,520 Speaker 2: missing five point thirty to the afternoon. The human leg 427 00:25:05,840 --> 00:25:08,560 Speaker 2: with the pink toenails is found in Warnamont Park. Two 428 00:25:08,640 --> 00:25:12,320 Speaker 2: days later, Maxwell Anderson is brought in for questioning because 429 00:25:12,359 --> 00:25:14,359 Speaker 2: they know that he was last on with her. The 430 00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:17,160 Speaker 2: next day, April fifth, three days after the first body 431 00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:20,720 Speaker 2: part was found, another body part found, this time near 432 00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:24,680 Speaker 2: thirtieth in Lisbon. The next day, human remains located near 433 00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:29,360 Speaker 2: thirty first Angalina. April seventh, more human remains located near 434 00:25:29,359 --> 00:25:33,600 Speaker 2: thirty first in Walnut. The next day, April eighth. Officers 435 00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:37,800 Speaker 2: are still combing the park for evidence and collected more items. 436 00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:40,119 Speaker 2: But when police find it, we don't know exactly what 437 00:25:40,160 --> 00:25:42,280 Speaker 2: they found. The only time we know what is actually 438 00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:44,400 Speaker 2: found is when a civilian finds it and they tell 439 00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:45,520 Speaker 2: us before the police do. 440 00:25:45,760 --> 00:25:48,560 Speaker 1: I'm sitting back and I'm thinking, my lord, I mean, 441 00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:51,840 Speaker 1: what else what else could their Torso? 442 00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:55,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, arm how about that that was found Joe just 443 00:25:55,760 --> 00:25:58,560 Speaker 2: the other day. Yeah, we are three weeks now away 444 00:25:58,560 --> 00:26:02,359 Speaker 2: from this almost and her orso an arm of shade 445 00:26:02,520 --> 00:26:05,359 Speaker 2: Robinson washed up on Milwaukee Beach. 446 00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:10,760 Speaker 1: So that begs the question, doesn't it is he? Why 447 00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:16,120 Speaker 1: would an individual who is randomly doing these these deposits, 448 00:26:16,840 --> 00:26:19,040 Speaker 1: why would he choose some of them to be Because 449 00:26:19,080 --> 00:26:20,520 Speaker 1: you know, if we go back to the leg that's 450 00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:23,440 Speaker 1: on the beach, was this something that he had walked 451 00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:26,040 Speaker 1: out into the water or did he And if you've 452 00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:28,919 Speaker 1: never seen the Great League Lakes, they they do have. 453 00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:31,879 Speaker 1: Look it's not like going to Hawaii, but there is 454 00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:34,600 Speaker 1: kind of a surf that's there. You know, the current 455 00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:37,240 Speaker 1: will push things into the beach. You can see breakers, 456 00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:40,800 Speaker 1: you know, on the shore, particularly if the weather stormy, 457 00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:43,240 Speaker 1: it looks like you're at the ocean. Did he not 458 00:26:43,520 --> 00:26:46,760 Speaker 1: walk the remains out there? Or did he take the 459 00:26:46,840 --> 00:26:50,240 Speaker 1: remains and put them into a tributary and have them 460 00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:54,240 Speaker 1: washed down the tributary and they wind up flowing back 461 00:26:54,359 --> 00:26:58,359 Speaker 1: into the shore. I think that that's certainly something you know, 462 00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:03,359 Speaker 1: to be considered. Here are these placements random? One of 463 00:27:03,359 --> 00:27:07,480 Speaker 1: the things that keeps going through my head. Dave about 464 00:27:07,520 --> 00:27:13,080 Speaker 1: this case, is that is this the first time this 465 00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:17,400 Speaker 1: individual has done this? Because you're talking about brother, you're 466 00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:20,240 Speaker 1: talking about going from zero to a thousand, All right, 467 00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:24,320 Speaker 1: this is not this is not like you know, you 468 00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:28,400 Speaker 1: kind of slipped into these waters and you're doing things 469 00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:32,520 Speaker 1: that you shouldn't be doing. Is you begin to think 470 00:27:32,560 --> 00:27:35,639 Speaker 1: has he attacked other people? Has he been this? Is 471 00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:39,000 Speaker 1: there this level of violence? Has he used sharp instruments 472 00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:42,480 Speaker 1: on anybody even in a fight? Has he threatened to 473 00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:46,919 Speaker 1: carve somebody up? Here's another big one. Are there any 474 00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:55,480 Speaker 1: other women in Milwaukee that fit the description of shah 475 00:27:55,600 --> 00:28:00,280 Speaker 1: Day that are missing? And I think that that that's 476 00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:03,720 Speaker 1: certainly something to consider where this would have to have 477 00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:07,399 Speaker 1: been done. You know, when you talk about dismemberment, you 478 00:28:07,560 --> 00:28:10,520 Speaker 1: have to have privacy. There's no way you're going to 479 00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:13,439 Speaker 1: roll out into the backyard and start doing this. You 480 00:28:13,520 --> 00:28:16,000 Speaker 1: have to have privacy. And from what I'm what I 481 00:28:16,040 --> 00:28:20,440 Speaker 1: am hearing, there's been a considerable amount of blood deposition 482 00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:24,840 Speaker 1: in his basement apartment essentially, or basement living. 483 00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:27,400 Speaker 2: Space actually in the hallway leading down on the stairway. 484 00:28:27,840 --> 00:28:30,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, and so was he dragging body parts up there? 485 00:28:31,119 --> 00:28:33,840 Speaker 1: And you know, and what else is in there. Here's 486 00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:37,400 Speaker 1: the other thing. When they sweep this area, when law 487 00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:40,320 Speaker 1: enforcement and I can assume that they have done this, 488 00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:43,920 Speaker 1: when they bring in that team of forensic scientists, the 489 00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:49,760 Speaker 1: random sampling in that environment, you expect to find his DNA. 490 00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:53,000 Speaker 1: You're going to find probably I think his parents actually 491 00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:56,400 Speaker 1: own the home and they've relocated to Florida. They're going 492 00:28:56,440 --> 00:29:00,880 Speaker 1: to find their DNA. Any of his buddies might find theirs. 493 00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:06,440 Speaker 1: But is there any unidentified DNA that's down there? Is 494 00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:10,239 Speaker 1: there any DNA that they could perhaps profile where they 495 00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:13,280 Speaker 1: could do phenotyping or get an idea as to who 496 00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:18,040 Speaker 1: this individual may have been, who it belongs to, Because look, 497 00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:20,600 Speaker 1: that question has to be asked, and I think that 498 00:29:21,040 --> 00:29:23,680 Speaker 1: the people in Milwaukee would want an answer to that, 499 00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:26,640 Speaker 1: because if they've got young women that are missing, your 500 00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:28,520 Speaker 1: boy right here, he moves up to the top of 501 00:29:28,520 --> 00:29:32,440 Speaker 1: the list for me. I want to look through that home, 502 00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:35,640 Speaker 1: any kind of vehicle he has, anything that he has, 503 00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:36,840 Speaker 1: I want to search it. 504 00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:40,000 Speaker 2: Joe, Okay, just to give you an idea. His dad's 505 00:29:40,120 --> 00:29:44,040 Speaker 2: very wealthy, a rich businessman. Maxwell Anderson was a high 506 00:29:44,040 --> 00:29:47,720 Speaker 2: school football star. After he didn't really amount to a 507 00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:50,160 Speaker 2: whole lot. He's worked for his daut a couple of times, 508 00:29:50,240 --> 00:29:53,240 Speaker 2: didn't really work out. He's ended up as a bartender 509 00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:55,280 Speaker 2: pretty much working as a bartender and what have you. 510 00:29:55,280 --> 00:29:58,080 Speaker 2: In and around Milwaukee. He did run a foul of 511 00:29:58,120 --> 00:30:00,960 Speaker 2: the law with the family members. It apparently has some 512 00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:03,840 Speaker 2: He's acted out a couple of times where police had 513 00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:06,000 Speaker 2: to be called. I'll give it that, but nothing like 514 00:30:06,040 --> 00:30:08,240 Speaker 2: this right now. Don't know if we have any other 515 00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:10,480 Speaker 2: women who have come forward to talk to police. We 516 00:30:10,520 --> 00:30:13,400 Speaker 2: don't know that yet, mainly because they have Maxwell Anderson 517 00:30:13,880 --> 00:30:17,040 Speaker 2: in jail. They've charged him with Shaw Dave Robinson's murder 518 00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:19,640 Speaker 2: and now they're putting the case together and they'll reach 519 00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:22,400 Speaker 2: out and if any women have come forward with other stories, 520 00:30:22,520 --> 00:30:25,360 Speaker 2: they're probably looking, you know, that's what yeah. 521 00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:27,880 Speaker 1: Buddy, let me tell you. They're going through his phone. 522 00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:31,080 Speaker 1: They're going through social media, any kind of dating apps 523 00:30:31,120 --> 00:30:35,200 Speaker 1: that he has there. They're going to be looking and say, look, 524 00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:37,920 Speaker 1: have you had contact with him? How did he behave 525 00:30:38,040 --> 00:30:41,000 Speaker 1: And they'll be bringing each and every one of these 526 00:30:41,040 --> 00:30:44,400 Speaker 1: points of contact along, not to mention all of his coworkers, 527 00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:46,720 Speaker 1: you know, the people that were in the bar. Did 528 00:30:46,720 --> 00:30:49,040 Speaker 1: he ever get spicy with any of the patrons that 529 00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:51,840 Speaker 1: came in there, you know, because fascinating. Yeah, go ahead, 530 00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:52,320 Speaker 1: I'm sorry. 531 00:30:52,360 --> 00:30:55,000 Speaker 2: The night they were out, the night that he was out, 532 00:30:55,200 --> 00:30:57,320 Speaker 2: it was like they went he went overboard to make 533 00:30:57,360 --> 00:30:59,920 Speaker 2: it not just a routine first date but a good 534 00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:03,480 Speaker 2: for a date. Because halfway through the night they took 535 00:31:03,520 --> 00:31:05,760 Speaker 2: a picture and sent it out. They're sending out Instagram 536 00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:09,600 Speaker 2: photos on their date. I mean, this guy was he 537 00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:12,960 Speaker 2: planned this out because look at what happens next. Follow 538 00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:16,240 Speaker 2: this timeline, Joe, It's very tight. Robinson and Anderson, they 539 00:31:16,280 --> 00:31:18,480 Speaker 2: go out to eat at a barhead a restaurant he 540 00:31:18,560 --> 00:31:20,960 Speaker 2: used to work at. Then they sit at the bar 541 00:31:21,040 --> 00:31:23,920 Speaker 2: and eat their food. Everybody sees them being pleasant. They 542 00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:26,920 Speaker 2: leave that restaurant, they go to Duke's on Water. A 543 00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:31,320 Speaker 2: pole camera actually picks them up and Robinson's Honda Civic 544 00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:35,000 Speaker 2: is parked at six thirty three. Six thirty four, Robinson 545 00:31:35,040 --> 00:31:37,440 Speaker 2: and Anderson get out of the car. Nine oh four, 546 00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:40,680 Speaker 2: Robinson and Anderson return to the car. Robinson and Anderson 547 00:31:40,680 --> 00:31:44,240 Speaker 2: are seen at Anderson's home by a neighbor's camera at 548 00:31:44,320 --> 00:31:48,160 Speaker 2: nine twenty four pm. There are two figures seen entering 549 00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:51,640 Speaker 2: Anderson's backyard. This is one made me think about the 550 00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:54,040 Speaker 2: hole that you said he dug. At nine to twenty six, 551 00:31:54,600 --> 00:31:58,280 Speaker 2: a living room light is turned on inside the home. 552 00:31:59,040 --> 00:32:04,400 Speaker 2: At eleven twenty five eleven twenty five, a figure coming 553 00:32:04,520 --> 00:32:07,680 Speaker 2: in and out of the home into the backyard on 554 00:32:07,840 --> 00:32:12,280 Speaker 2: and off until twelve forty five am. At twelve forty 555 00:32:12,320 --> 00:32:18,400 Speaker 2: seven am, Robinson's car departs Anderson's house. That would mean 556 00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:24,480 Speaker 2: Shaw Deve Robinson's Honda Civic leaves Maxwell Anderson's home at 557 00:32:24,480 --> 00:32:28,120 Speaker 2: twelve forty seven am. We know they arrived and she 558 00:32:28,360 --> 00:32:32,320 Speaker 2: was fine, alive, walk well, assuming it's her. Two figures 559 00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:35,960 Speaker 2: entering the backyard at nine twenty four pm at eleven 560 00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:38,640 Speaker 2: twenty five, one person is seen going in and out 561 00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:40,360 Speaker 2: of the house for the next hour, and so you 562 00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:43,280 Speaker 2: know Delly leaves, So she's dead by eleven twenty five, 563 00:32:43,800 --> 00:32:45,400 Speaker 2: two hours dead. 564 00:32:45,440 --> 00:32:49,680 Speaker 1: You got up. Yeah, And if he had the tools 565 00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:52,440 Speaker 1: at his disposal at that point, Tom and he had 566 00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:55,640 Speaker 1: a location where he could do this effectively and efficiently 567 00:32:55,920 --> 00:32:59,960 Speaker 1: as mechanical as that sounds. Did he use the car 568 00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:03,600 Speaker 1: in order to transport these remains and deposit them? Was 569 00:33:03,640 --> 00:33:07,160 Speaker 1: this a one time deposition thing where he's he's just 570 00:33:07,280 --> 00:33:10,720 Speaker 1: making the rounds to all these various locations, and that 571 00:33:10,880 --> 00:33:13,200 Speaker 1: does in fact bring us to the car because my 572 00:33:13,360 --> 00:33:18,520 Speaker 1: understanding is that they have also found gasoline containers that 573 00:33:18,600 --> 00:33:21,080 Speaker 1: he had at home. And here's the thing, if you 574 00:33:22,480 --> 00:33:26,200 Speaker 1: what people don't understand about using accelerants. I think that 575 00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:29,320 Speaker 1: it's fascinating. First off, that he strikes a lighter and 576 00:33:29,360 --> 00:33:32,960 Speaker 1: this is witnessed. He strikes a lighter outside of her 577 00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:35,240 Speaker 1: car and walks away, and then the next thing you know, 578 00:33:35,400 --> 00:33:38,800 Speaker 1: the car is engulfed. And you know, I'm always picking 579 00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:43,160 Speaker 1: on Hollywood, I know, on the show, but cars just 580 00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:47,800 Speaker 1: don't explode, all right, like that. Now you can have problem, 581 00:33:47,800 --> 00:33:51,840 Speaker 1: you can have that it does happen. But that's the 582 00:33:51,920 --> 00:33:55,440 Speaker 1: exception as opposed to the norm, all right, particularly from 583 00:33:55,520 --> 00:33:59,160 Speaker 1: within the cockpit of the car itself, within where the 584 00:33:59,240 --> 00:34:01,640 Speaker 1: driver's seat sits and all of this sort of thing. 585 00:34:01,960 --> 00:34:04,960 Speaker 1: So there has to be an accelerant at work. What's 586 00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:08,560 Speaker 1: going to happen with all of the material in that 587 00:34:08,640 --> 00:34:12,160 Speaker 1: car that they can save? And this is kind of fascinating. 588 00:34:12,600 --> 00:34:15,520 Speaker 1: When the arson investigators work that car, they're going to 589 00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:19,239 Speaker 1: take samples from within that car, and they're going to 590 00:34:19,320 --> 00:34:22,239 Speaker 1: put them into this. They're going to put it into 591 00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:26,560 Speaker 1: a paint can, okay, and what will happen is those 592 00:34:26,600 --> 00:34:29,919 Speaker 1: items settle, Like if it's a cloth off of the seat, 593 00:34:30,040 --> 00:34:31,000 Speaker 1: for instance. 594 00:34:30,719 --> 00:34:32,239 Speaker 2: Well, the paint can have it. They're gonna put it 595 00:34:32,239 --> 00:34:33,919 Speaker 2: in a paint can. What's in the pain can? 596 00:34:34,200 --> 00:34:37,040 Speaker 1: Well, I say paint can. It's a can that looks 597 00:34:37,120 --> 00:34:40,000 Speaker 1: like a paint can. They're all silver and they're used 598 00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:44,719 Speaker 1: for collecting arson evidence. And so what happens is as 599 00:34:44,840 --> 00:34:48,520 Speaker 1: gravity takes hold and that that item settles to the 600 00:34:48,560 --> 00:34:52,359 Speaker 1: bottom of the can, any fumes that are contained on 601 00:34:52,360 --> 00:34:55,960 Speaker 1: that item rise within that can, and they're going to 602 00:34:56,040 --> 00:34:58,799 Speaker 1: take a big plunger and they're going to stick it 603 00:34:58,840 --> 00:35:01,160 Speaker 1: in there and they're going to draw off that gas. 604 00:35:01,640 --> 00:35:04,160 Speaker 1: And then they're going to walk over to a GC 605 00:35:04,520 --> 00:35:09,440 Speaker 1: mass spec which is a gas chromatograph that's attached to 606 00:35:10,080 --> 00:35:14,120 Speaker 1: a mass spect machine, and they're going to begin to 607 00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:17,000 Speaker 1: take that sample and run it through the machine and 608 00:35:17,040 --> 00:35:20,960 Speaker 1: it gives you a chemical signature. All right. I'm not 609 00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:22,759 Speaker 1: going to go into all the details, but with the 610 00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:28,760 Speaker 1: GC you begin to kind of formulate what is present, okay, 611 00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:31,600 Speaker 1: within the sample. You can kind of get a generalized 612 00:35:31,640 --> 00:35:36,239 Speaker 1: idea when it's drawn over to the mass spec we're 613 00:35:36,280 --> 00:35:41,239 Speaker 1: talking about spectrometry, and so every element that you have 614 00:35:41,360 --> 00:35:44,600 Speaker 1: out there bends light in a certain way, and so 615 00:35:46,160 --> 00:35:50,560 Speaker 1: when you're talking about something like gas or ethanol, it's 616 00:35:50,640 --> 00:35:55,120 Speaker 1: going to refract I guess is the best way to 617 00:35:55,120 --> 00:35:56,680 Speaker 1: put it. It'll bend the light and it gives you 618 00:35:56,719 --> 00:36:02,560 Speaker 1: a specific readout on this thing. All gas, like you 619 00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:06,040 Speaker 1: draw up at the gas station, is pretty much the same. 620 00:36:06,120 --> 00:36:10,719 Speaker 1: What separates it though, is the detergents that the individual 621 00:36:10,880 --> 00:36:13,760 Speaker 1: companies put in there. So if we look at something 622 00:36:13,840 --> 00:36:20,080 Speaker 1: like VP or Texaco or Gulf or Shell Chevron, it 623 00:36:20,120 --> 00:36:23,200 Speaker 1: doesn't matter they all, you know, we see these things 624 00:36:23,200 --> 00:36:25,440 Speaker 1: you know with I don't know, and they're not sponsoring 625 00:36:25,520 --> 00:36:27,400 Speaker 1: the show. But whoever it is, it says, you know, 626 00:36:27,480 --> 00:36:31,359 Speaker 1: our gas has techron in it. Well, techron is some 627 00:36:31,480 --> 00:36:34,880 Speaker 1: kind of substance they have in there that is supposed 628 00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:38,880 Speaker 1: to reduce gunk. Okay, Well, it has a very specific 629 00:36:39,320 --> 00:36:43,799 Speaker 1: signature that's different than the gasoline. And so if this 630 00:36:43,920 --> 00:36:47,360 Speaker 1: suspect has taken those gas cans and gone to a 631 00:36:47,440 --> 00:36:50,279 Speaker 1: local filling station, well that's an old term people don't 632 00:36:50,360 --> 00:36:53,160 Speaker 1: use any more, gone to a local filling station and 633 00:36:53,200 --> 00:36:56,160 Speaker 1: filled up these cans with it. There's going to be 634 00:36:56,320 --> 00:37:01,440 Speaker 1: a very specific chemical signature goes back to that gas 635 00:37:01,520 --> 00:37:04,640 Speaker 1: if that's what he used as the accelerant. And so 636 00:37:05,120 --> 00:37:07,279 Speaker 1: that's what I mean, Dave. You know when I talk 637 00:37:07,360 --> 00:37:10,680 Speaker 1: about things like, yeah, you're trying to destroy evidence, and 638 00:37:10,719 --> 00:37:13,880 Speaker 1: maybe there was blood evidence in that car, because you know, 639 00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:17,760 Speaker 1: maybe if he's using it to convey this precious girl's 640 00:37:17,840 --> 00:37:22,080 Speaker 1: remains all over the place, maybe he got rid of 641 00:37:22,120 --> 00:37:24,000 Speaker 1: the blood evidence, but he's not going to get rid 642 00:37:24,040 --> 00:37:26,160 Speaker 1: of that accelerant that was in there, and that's going 643 00:37:26,200 --> 00:37:29,120 Speaker 1: to be his undoing. I think whoever I thought it 644 00:37:29,160 --> 00:37:29,919 Speaker 1: says I heard fire. 645 00:37:30,040 --> 00:37:32,000 Speaker 2: That was my first thought was jo Just Scott said 646 00:37:32,040 --> 00:37:35,640 Speaker 2: that he just burned himself by setting that fire. That's 647 00:37:35,680 --> 00:37:37,759 Speaker 2: what I heard you say, you know, because I've heard 648 00:37:37,760 --> 00:37:39,400 Speaker 2: you talk about what a fire does. 649 00:37:39,520 --> 00:37:42,200 Speaker 1: Well, Look, you and I have both been around We 650 00:37:42,239 --> 00:37:45,080 Speaker 1: grew up in sixties, right, We've both been around cigarettes 651 00:37:45,160 --> 00:37:47,719 Speaker 1: our entire lives. One way or another, we smoked or 652 00:37:47,760 --> 00:37:51,240 Speaker 1: we didn't smoke. Certainly our parents smoked. I can't remember. 653 00:37:51,560 --> 00:37:53,520 Speaker 1: I can't count how many times I've been burned by 654 00:37:53,520 --> 00:37:56,279 Speaker 1: a cigarette, not on purpose, but you know, parents used 655 00:37:56,320 --> 00:37:58,640 Speaker 1: to smoke around us all the time, and you know 656 00:37:58,680 --> 00:38:01,200 Speaker 1: they burn you. You know they're lighting up or whatever. 657 00:38:01,560 --> 00:38:04,759 Speaker 1: But have you ever seen somebody drop a cigarette onto 658 00:38:05,360 --> 00:38:07,600 Speaker 1: like the surface of a seat and a car well 659 00:38:08,280 --> 00:38:11,759 Speaker 1: that it smolders it catch it if it's fabric or 660 00:38:11,800 --> 00:38:14,000 Speaker 1: I guess it could be pleather or whatever it is 661 00:38:14,000 --> 00:38:16,000 Speaker 1: in your car, it's going to burn a hole in it. 662 00:38:16,280 --> 00:38:18,040 Speaker 1: But guess what it's not going to do. It's not 663 00:38:18,080 --> 00:38:22,319 Speaker 1: going to explode and envelop the car. Okay, that just 664 00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:25,880 Speaker 1: doesn't happen. And you have to have an initiate with 665 00:38:26,040 --> 00:38:29,719 Speaker 1: him striking that lighter. What's really fascinating about this, Dave, 666 00:38:29,920 --> 00:38:35,640 Speaker 1: is that we've actually got a witness that saw this 667 00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:40,880 Speaker 1: person strike this lighter. And I've got visions of zippos 668 00:38:40,920 --> 00:38:44,400 Speaker 1: coming into my mind right now, and you know, a 669 00:38:44,520 --> 00:38:48,040 Speaker 1: lighter that would stay burning and take it and toss 670 00:38:48,080 --> 00:38:50,719 Speaker 1: it like some movie into the cockpit of the car 671 00:38:50,840 --> 00:38:54,279 Speaker 1: and suddenly the thing's enveloped in flame. Now you might 672 00:38:54,400 --> 00:38:56,640 Speaker 1: think that you're going to get rid of everything, but 673 00:38:56,719 --> 00:39:02,480 Speaker 1: I can tell you science in the end is gonna 674 00:39:02,520 --> 00:39:06,320 Speaker 1: get you. And you can say that not only about 675 00:39:06,320 --> 00:39:11,680 Speaker 1: the fire. You can say that about the blood that 676 00:39:11,960 --> 00:39:16,000 Speaker 1: was left behind at his scene. You can say that 677 00:39:16,160 --> 00:39:20,560 Speaker 1: about the ct TV, But you know what else you 678 00:39:20,600 --> 00:39:27,440 Speaker 1: can say it about out there. Her remains are pointing 679 00:39:27,960 --> 00:39:32,640 Speaker 1: a finger back at this perpetrator, and her remains, in 680 00:39:32,680 --> 00:39:40,359 Speaker 1: the end will tell the tale of Shade's death. I'm 681 00:39:40,440 --> 00:39:43,880 Speaker 1: Joseph Scott Morgan and this is body bags.