Speaker 1: A relatively anonymous environmental official from the Trump administration is
Speaker 1: in the headlines for all the wrong reasons. Today on
Speaker 1: Parts Pavilion, we explain why and take a look at
Speaker 1: whether this official is now basically unemployable. Hello, and welcome
Speaker 1: back once again to Parts Pavilion, the environmental podcast from
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Law. I'm your host, David Schultz. So, as an
Speaker 1: environmental policy nerd myself, there are some people I follow
Speaker 1: really closely, but who I would never think would gain
Speaker 1: prominence among the general public. For example, if I log
Speaker 1: onto Twitter and see Ben Grumbles trending, I'm going to
Speaker 1: be very, very surprised. But that's basically what happened last
Speaker 1: week with Jeffrey Bossert Clark, the top environmental attorney within
Speaker 1: the Trump administration's Department of Justice. Clark came to prominence
Speaker 1: when The New York Times reported late Friday that he
Speaker 1: was involved in a plan earlier this month to oust
Speaker 1: the acting Attorney General and then use the Justice Department
Speaker 1: to give support to lawsuits challenging this November's election results.
Speaker 1: Almost instantly, Clark went from being a little known environmental
Speaker 1: attorney to a key player in the ongoing drama over
Speaker 1: the former president's attempts to cling to power and delegitimize
Speaker 1: the election. Bloomberg laws Ellen Gilmer, a familiar voice to
Speaker 1: many of you, was curious as to how Clark got
Speaker 1: mixed up in all of this and about what this
Speaker 1: could mean for his legal career moving forward. I spoke
Speaker 1: to Ellen about all of this and about how she
Speaker 1: found out that Clark was in the news. Well, it
Speaker 1: was Friday night of the week of inauguration, which was
Speaker 1: a busy week for all reporters, for everybody who's involved
Speaker 1: in the news. So I was finally sitting down on
Speaker 1: the couch after a very long week, scrolling through Twitter,
Speaker 1: and I see this New York Times bombshell about some
Speaker 1: Justice Department official. And the picture with the story is
Speaker 1: somebody I recognize. It looks like Jeffrey Bosser. Clark can't
Speaker 1: be Jeff Clark. I click on the story, and sure enough,
Speaker 1: it's the one and only Jeff Clark, head of the
Speaker 1: Environment and Natural Resources Division under President Trump. And that
Speaker 1: should give you an indication of how low key he
Speaker 1: was in that. It was a surprise to see his
Speaker 1: photo on Twitter. And we'll get to that in a
Speaker 1: little bit about his You know stature. But first off,
Speaker 1: let's remind people what he actually did and what the
Speaker 1: Environment Division at DOJ does. The Environment Division handles all
Speaker 1: of the environmental litigation that the United States is involved in,
Speaker 1: so that's basically two different sides of things. First, they
Speaker 1: enforce all of the major environmental laws, the Clean Air Act,
Speaker 1: the Clean Water Act. They bring they bring cases to
Speaker 1: enforce against alleged violators. And the second piece is they
Speaker 1: defend environmental policies put forth by the Interior Department, the EPA,
Speaker 1: and other agencies. And we cover that a lot because
Speaker 1: you know, whenever anyone ensues the EPA or the Interior Department,
Speaker 1: we follow those lawsuits very closely. And his division is
Speaker 1: the one that defends those agencies. He's basically the EPA's
Speaker 1: defense attorney, to sort of oversimplify it, right. More or less,
Speaker 1: he leads a team of lawyers within the Justice Department,
Speaker 1: and he has told us and others many times his
Speaker 1: primary goal as head of the Environment Division is to
Speaker 1: or was to defend the Trump administration's agenda. Okay, so
Speaker 1: let's get into the latest news. You mentioned. There was
Speaker 1: a big bombshell New York Times story for the people
Speaker 1: who haven't seen it, can you summarize what the story said,
Speaker 1: what it alleged that Jeff Clark did, and how Jeff
Speaker 1: himself responded. So, the reports, which were based on the record,
Speaker 1: but anonymous sources, said there was a plot to ask
Speaker 1: Acting Attorney General Rosen and to replace him with what
Speaker 1: the New York Times called a Trump loyalist who would
Speaker 1: use the Justice Departments resources to challenge the election results
Speaker 1: in Georgia. So the DOJ official who was allegedly that
Speaker 1: Trump loyalist was Jeffrey Bosser Clark, and he has confirmed
Speaker 1: that he did have a meeting with the president. That
Speaker 1: much he has acknowledged. But he otherwise says the New
Speaker 1: York Times story includes various inaccuracies. He hasn't gone into
Speaker 1: detail about what those inaccuracies are, except that he says
Speaker 1: there was no plan on his part to oust Jeff Rosen. Guy.
Speaker 1: So let's go back to what you were mentioning earlier
Speaker 1: that you were really surprised to see his photo while
Speaker 1: you were doing some weekend doom scrolling on Twitter as
Speaker 1: we all do. Why were you surprised and what does
Speaker 1: that say about his stature? I mean, I guess What
Speaker 1: it implies is that he was not really a very
Speaker 1: high level, well known type person in the Trump administration. Right, Well,
Speaker 1: he was fairly high level. He was the assistant Attorney
Speaker 1: General overseeing the Environment Division, but there are many assistant
Speaker 1: attorneys general, and it's a few tiers down from attorney general.
Speaker 1: So he was a Trump appointee Senate confirmed, So in
Speaker 1: that regard, you know, he was certainly important, but he
Speaker 1: did not. He was not the face of the agency.
Speaker 1: He was not certainly not a household name, and he
Speaker 1: kind of flew under the radar for people outside of
Speaker 1: environment circles. Like, nobody outside of environment circles would know
Speaker 1: who Jeff Clark is, except maybe in the final few
Speaker 1: months of his time at DOJ, where he was filling
Speaker 1: in as acting head of the Civil Division in addition
Speaker 1: to his Environment Division duties. Well, let's talk about people
Speaker 1: within environment circles. You know, did the environmental activists and
Speaker 1: the environmental attorneys that you spoke with, were they really
Speaker 1: surprised to see that Clark had been kind of mixed
Speaker 1: up in all of this, or were they, you know,
Speaker 1: is this something that wasn't surprising to them? People were shocked.
Speaker 1: My phone started blowing up on Friday night after this
Speaker 1: news came out from people former colleagues of Jeff Clark,
Speaker 1: along with you know, legal adversaries and other people in
Speaker 1: environmental circles who just thought that Jeff was extremely conservative
Speaker 1: in his legal views but didn't see this election issue.
Speaker 1: They didn't see him going this far into this election
Speaker 1: issue in the way that the New York Times story alleges.
Speaker 1: Let's talk about the consequences for Clark himself. You did
Speaker 1: some great reporting to advance this story where you talked
Speaker 1: about how this could affect Clark's career moving forward. You know,
Speaker 1: now that he's out of the administration, can you talk
Speaker 1: a little bit about that you know and what you learned. Yes. So,
Speaker 1: first of all, before Jeff Clark has time to think
Speaker 1: about any career consequences, he has to deal with some
Speaker 1: investigations that are going to be underway from the Senate
Speaker 1: and inside the Justice Department into what went on here.
Speaker 1: Jeff Clark resigned January fourteenth, which was a little less
Speaker 1: than a week before President Biden was inaugurated. At the time,
Speaker 1: he didn't have any job plans nailed down. And now,
Speaker 1: in addition to the Senate investigation of the Senate investigation,
Speaker 1: in the DJA investigation, He's going to have to deal
Speaker 1: with potential ethics complaints. Some legal ethics experts who we
Speaker 1: talked to law professors said that especially during the Trump era,
Speaker 1: members of the public are really mobilized on legal ethics issues,
Speaker 1: and if they see something, especially from a government lawyer
Speaker 1: that seems potentially, you know, askew, they are a lot
Speaker 1: more savvy about filing bar complaints. So Jeff Clark is
Speaker 1: member of the DC Bar, it's conceivable some members of
Speaker 1: the public could file bar complaints if they see some
Speaker 1: of Jeff Clark's alleged actions as violating the rules of
Speaker 1: professional conduct for lawyers. So that would be a matter
Speaker 1: for the DC Bar, and the people we talked to
Speaker 1: had some different points of view about whether such complaints
Speaker 1: would be successful. And when there is a bar complaint,
Speaker 1: there's like a big range of consequences that can range
Speaker 1: from very minor to very severe. The other consequence that
Speaker 1: Jeff Clark will have to deal with is just like
Speaker 1: his marketability as a lawyer getting into a job, and
Speaker 1: that is a more tangible, immediate consequence of all of this.
Speaker 1: One recruit legal industry recruiting expert we talked to described
Speaker 1: him describe Clark as being radioactive in the wake of
Speaker 1: the New York Times story in that, you know, law firms,
Speaker 1: traditional big law law firms are not going to want
Speaker 1: to bring this guy on board and send out a
Speaker 1: press release and say, hey, look at this great DJ
Speaker 1: lawyer we hired, which would normally be what happens when
Speaker 1: you leave DJ as a high ranking official, Right, That's
Speaker 1: what you had some great stuff in your story about that,
Speaker 1: where it's like, you know, law firms, especially in big law,
Speaker 1: would be following all over themselves to get an alumni
Speaker 1: of DJ on board, and in this case, you know,
Speaker 1: they don't. It seems like they might not want to
Speaker 1: go near him. I mean, that's just amazing. And it's
Speaker 1: certainly possible. The dynamic will change as details come out
Speaker 1: as a result of the investigation and as there's more
Speaker 1: clarity about what actually happened. But for now, at least,
Speaker 1: there's a really big cloud over his head in terms
Speaker 1: of the job market. So let's talk about broader, the
Speaker 1: broader issues for big law. You know, typically when there's
Speaker 1: a change in administration, a lot of alumni from the
Speaker 1: outgoing administration finds a very lucrative home within these big
Speaker 1: law firms, But as we just talked about with Jeff Clark,
Speaker 1: he may have some trouble doing that. Do you think
Speaker 1: there'll be other Trump alumni who also face difficulty in
Speaker 1: getting that typical like corporate law law firm job. It depends.
Speaker 1: I think any lawyers who from the Trump administration who
Speaker 1: have some close connection to challenging the election or some
Speaker 1: sort of connection to the Capitol riot for whatever reason,
Speaker 1: those would definitely be people who law firms are going
Speaker 1: to want to avoid for a while probably, But I
Speaker 1: think other people won't have a hard time, like just
Speaker 1: packaging themselves as a traditional conservative lawyer, because I think
Speaker 1: that's what a lot of them are. And there might
Speaker 1: be a little bit of pushback or a little bit
Speaker 1: of hesitance on the part of some especially cautious law firms,
Speaker 1: but for the most part, I think they're going to
Speaker 1: want to hire a lot of those folks who just
Speaker 1: kind of stayed in their lane of whatever policy issue
Speaker 1: it was they were working on during the Trump administration
Speaker 1: and didn't stray into these other really controversial and difficult issues.
Speaker 1: That was Bloomberg Laws, Alan Gilmer, and that'll do it
Speaker 1: for today's episode of Parts per Billion. If you want
Speaker 1: more environmental news, check us out on Twitter. We use
Speaker 1: the handle at environment. Just that it's at environment. I'm
Speaker 1: at David B. Schultz. If you want to let me
Speaker 1: know that some other random person is the news, let's
Speaker 1: say I don't know, Joel bove Kankaposis, Jim Jones, who knows.
Speaker 1: Today's episode of Parts per Billion was produced by myself
Speaker 1: and Josh Block. Parts Pavilion was created by Jessica Combs
Speaker 1: and Rachel Daegel. The music of today's episode is a
Speaker 1: message by Jazzar and the Quest by Tom Hillock and
Speaker 1: Nicholas Boskovic. Here we use up to a Creative Commons license.
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