WEBVTT - Bombs-Away LeMay

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<v Speaker 1>Pushkin.

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<v Speaker 2>Curtis Emerson LeMay, who for the better part of twenty

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<v Speaker 2>five years dominated the greatest fighting force the world had

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<v Speaker 2>ever known, had three nicknames, Old Iron Pants, the Demon,

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<v Speaker 2>and bombs Away LeMay. He was not that category of

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<v Speaker 2>leader who led by force of wit, charm and charisma.

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<v Speaker 2>Nor was he some great thinker, the kind of leader

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<v Speaker 2>whose appeal lies with carefully thought out manifestos and elaborate ideologies.

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<v Speaker 2>Le Maay never took his cigar out of his mouth

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<v Speaker 2>long enough to say anything. He belonged to a different category,

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<v Speaker 2>the one that gets overlooked.

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<v Speaker 1>Curtis LeMay. In my view, he was the greatest air

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<v Speaker 1>commander in history.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm talking to the military historian Conrad Crane. No historian

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<v Speaker 2>writes about the Second World War out considering the legacy

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<v Speaker 2>of LeMay.

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<v Speaker 1>Everything he touched he transformed. He was a dynamic leader.

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<v Speaker 1>He shared the difficulties of his airman. He was the

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<v Speaker 1>best navigator of the Air Force I had it, was

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<v Speaker 1>a great pilot, He could do mechanics stuff. He was

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<v Speaker 1>the Air Force's ultimate problem solver. But he was one

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<v Speaker 1>of those guys that you would if you gave him

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<v Speaker 1>a problem to fix, you didn't ask a whole lot

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<v Speaker 1>of questions.

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<v Speaker 2>Harry was going to do it bombs away. LeMay was

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<v Speaker 2>known as someone you get the job done. My name

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<v Speaker 2>is Malcolm Gladwell. You're listening to Revisionist History, my podcast

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<v Speaker 2>about things Overlooked and Misunderstood. This is part three of

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<v Speaker 2>my four part series about Curtis le May and the

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<v Speaker 2>events of March nineteen forty five. This episode is about

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<v Speaker 2>the role of people like Curtis le May in times

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<v Speaker 2>of crisis. In the normal course of events, we are

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<v Speaker 2>led by people of ideas and people of arristhma. But

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<v Speaker 2>when things start to go badly, those people get pushed

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<v Speaker 2>aside and the problem solver takes center stage. Only the

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<v Speaker 2>problem solver doesn't play by the same moral rules. Let

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<v Speaker 2>me give you an example of what it means to

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<v Speaker 2>approach the world the way someone like Curtis LeMay did.

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<v Speaker 2>It's not one of the signature stories in the LeMay legend.

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<v Speaker 2>It happened long before he was famous, years before the

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<v Speaker 2>Second World War. He would mention it sometimes in passing

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<v Speaker 2>in some of the interviews he gave in retirement, but

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<v Speaker 2>it's one of those stories that made me stop and say, oh,

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<v Speaker 2>I think I understand him now. In nineteen thirty seven,

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<v Speaker 2>with the threat of war in Europe growing, the Army's

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<v Speaker 2>Air Corps wanted a chance to practice their bombing technique,

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<v Speaker 2>real world practice, only with dummy bombs fifty pounders filled

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<v Speaker 2>with water.

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<v Speaker 3>I'mt me tell you the story of that. I mentioned

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<v Speaker 3>that the Air Force has been battling to make a

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<v Speaker 3>contribution to the fans of the country ever since I've

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<v Speaker 3>done around, nobody paid much attention to it.

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<v Speaker 2>This is an interview LeMay gave to the Air Force

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<v Speaker 2>Academy in nineteen seventy one, a few years after leaving

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<v Speaker 2>his post as Chief of Staff of the Air Force.

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<v Speaker 2>When he was taking the post retirement victory lap, a

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<v Speaker 2>famous generals take.

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<v Speaker 3>We wanted an exercise, or we could drop bomb on

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<v Speaker 3>a battleship.

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<v Speaker 2>Find a battleship for the practice run. To work, the

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<v Speaker 2>Air Corps needed the Navy to play along. Hide a

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<v Speaker 2>battleship out on the seas, give out its coordinates at

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<v Speaker 2>the last minute, and dare the bombers to find it.

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<v Speaker 2>This was before sophisticated radar and navigation aids. To find

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<v Speaker 2>a battleship, you had to see it with your eyes,

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<v Speaker 2>then hit its narrow decks with a bomb from thousands

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<v Speaker 2>of feet up, all the while flying at hundreds of

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<v Speaker 2>miles an hour. The Navy was not enthusiastic.

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<v Speaker 3>Finally, they agreed that they would have an exercise and

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<v Speaker 3>it would be in August off the West coast. Now

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<v Speaker 3>in August off the west coast, there's nothing but fog

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<v Speaker 3>for a thousand miles out there, and they deliberately picked

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<v Speaker 3>it for this time. I'm sure.

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<v Speaker 2>How could you spot a battleship in one thousand miles

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<v Speaker 2>of fog. To make matters worse, the Navy bent the rules.

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<v Speaker 2>The agreement was to have the wargame run for twenty

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<v Speaker 2>four hours from noon the first day until noon the next,

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<v Speaker 2>but the Navy didn't give out the coordinates of its ship,

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<v Speaker 2>the uss Utah, until late the first afternoon, and the

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<v Speaker 2>cordinates they gave were wrong, off by sixty miles one

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<v Speaker 2>thousand miles of fog. Late directions, fake directions a needle

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<v Speaker 2>in a haystack would have been easier at ten minutes before.

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<v Speaker 2>At the very last moment, le May found the ship

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<v Speaker 2>and dropped his bombs. Now, of course he found the ship,

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<v Speaker 2>there was nothing Li May could not do if he

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<v Speaker 2>put his mind to it. That's not the point of

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<v Speaker 2>the story. The point is what happened before he dropped

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<v Speaker 2>his bombs. The Navy was certain they couldn't be found,

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<v Speaker 2>so they took no precautions. The sailors were all over

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<v Speaker 2>the decks going about their business. They were supposed to

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<v Speaker 2>take cover in a bombing exercise. They didn't. So what

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<v Speaker 2>did LeMay do? He bombed the Utah anyway, raining fifty

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<v Speaker 2>pound water bombs down on the sailors.

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<v Speaker 3>And the Navy was so sure that they weren't going

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<v Speaker 3>to be found. I don't know if that bog die

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<v Speaker 3>like it, but the men were all over the decks,

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<v Speaker 3>everybody diving for the gang plank patches and way hard

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<v Speaker 3>rumors that there are a few people part a little bit.

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<v Speaker 2>Imagine how other types of leaders might have handled the

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<v Speaker 2>decision to bomb after seeing sailors out in the deck.

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<v Speaker 2>The thinker would have understood the moral dimensions of willingly

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<v Speaker 2>harming one of your own in the course of a

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<v Speaker 2>routine training exercise. The charismatic leader would have wondered, what

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<v Speaker 2>will my own men think of me if they see

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<v Speaker 2>that I am capable of such a casual act of brutality.

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<v Speaker 2>But the problem solver. The problem was to find the

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<v Speaker 2>Utah and bomb it, and so he bombs it.

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<v Speaker 3>I'd rather have somebody who is real stupid. I did

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<v Speaker 3>something and even it was wrong, alre he did something,

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<v Speaker 3>and I have somebody who would vacilate and do nothing.

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<v Speaker 2>You cannot do nothing in the world view of the

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<v Speaker 2>problem solver, even if what you end up doing is horrifying.

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<v Speaker 2>In his memoirs, LeMay says they were rumors for years

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<v Speaker 2>that some sale got killed in the bombing exercise of

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<v Speaker 2>nineteen thirty seven, and then he says, quote, I remember

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<v Speaker 2>watching the first bomb, which smashed into the deck. It

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<v Speaker 2>sent splintered pieces of wood flying in every direction. I

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<v Speaker 2>hadn't realized that wood could frag like that. It was

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<v Speaker 2>a learning opportunity. Who knew wood reacted that way? He

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<v Speaker 2>files that fact away and goes on to the next problem.

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<v Speaker 2>In the first years of the Second World War, the

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<v Speaker 2>American fight against the Japanese was defined by a single fact.

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<v Speaker 2>Japan was beyond the reach of the US Air Force.

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<v Speaker 2>The American workhorse bomber was the B seventeen. It had

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<v Speaker 2>a range of roughly two thousand miles. That's a thousand

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<v Speaker 2>miles out and one thousand miles back. Now, look at

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<v Speaker 2>a map of the world from say, January of nineteen

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<v Speaker 2>forty four, and try and find an air base controlled

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<v Speaker 2>by the Allies that is within one thousand miles of

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<v Speaker 2>tow You can't. And if you can't reach Japan, how

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<v Speaker 2>on earth are you going to defeat them? The solution

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<v Speaker 2>comes in two parts.

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<v Speaker 4>This is where it began, here in the exact geographic

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<v Speaker 4>center of the United States, Grand Island, Nebraska.

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<v Speaker 2>That voice sounds familiar, doesn't it. It's fron of Reagan.

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<v Speaker 2>Long before he became president, Reagan narrated newsreels during the

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<v Speaker 2>Second World War.

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<v Speaker 4>The men were brought here from every corner of the

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<v Speaker 4>country and a few corners outside the country.

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<v Speaker 3>They were a.

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<v Speaker 4>Hand picked American mixture of draftees and west pointers, of butchers,

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<v Speaker 4>teachers and bankers, of your sons, husbands, and fathers.

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<v Speaker 2>In the newsreel, we see soldiers arriving in barracks, handsome

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<v Speaker 2>crisp uniforms, all gazing up at a magnificent and gleaming airplane.

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<v Speaker 4>She was a B twenty nine, the superport designed to

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<v Speaker 4>carry more destruction and carry it higher, faster, farther than

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<v Speaker 4>any bomber ever built before. And to complete this mission,

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<v Speaker 4>That's exactly what she was going to have to do.

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<v Speaker 2>She The B twenty nine was one of the great

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<v Speaker 2>achievements of the American war effort, an enormous bomber dedicated

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<v Speaker 2>entirely to the fight against the Japanese. In the Wars

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<v Speaker 2>specific theater, the B twenty nine's range fifty six hundred

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<v Speaker 2>miles much better than its predecessor. So then came the

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<v Speaker 2>second step. In the summer of nineteen forty four, in

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<v Speaker 2>some of the most brutal fighting of the war, the

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<v Speaker 2>Marines captured three tiny specks in the middle of the

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<v Speaker 2>Western Pacific, the Mariana Islands, Guam, Saipan, and Tinian. Why

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<v Speaker 2>were they captured because the Marianna is with thirteen hundred

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<v Speaker 2>and forty two miles from Tokyo, straight shot across the ocean,

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<v Speaker 2>put the B twenty nine together with the Marianas, and

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<v Speaker 2>overnight the odds of beating Japan shifted.

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<v Speaker 1>June of nineteen forty four is a arguably the most

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<v Speaker 1>important month of the war. You have D Day and

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<v Speaker 1>where we go ashore in northwest Europe, you have the

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<v Speaker 1>invasion of the Marianas and the Pacific, the final breaking

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<v Speaker 1>of the internal defense line of the Japanese, the fall

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<v Speaker 1>of the Tojo government because of that. So all that

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<v Speaker 1>stuff happens in that same month.

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<v Speaker 2>Throughout the summer and fall of nineteen forty four, the

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<v Speaker 2>Navy built massive bases on each of the captured islands

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<v Speaker 2>of the Mariannas. The biggest base contained the largest airport

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<v Speaker 2>in the world that was on tinian six runways, the

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<v Speaker 2>equivalent of three Boulder dams with a concrete and when

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<v Speaker 2>they were finished, the military again flying in brand new

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<v Speaker 2>B twenty nine bombers, hundreds of them.

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<v Speaker 4>Their final base was no longer a mystery. Four thousand

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<v Speaker 4>miles farther west, with only one refueling stop on the way,

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<v Speaker 4>lay the island of Saipan. Less than four months before,

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<v Speaker 4>it had still been in the hands of the Japanese.

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<v Speaker 2>To head up the newly created B twenty nine strike

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<v Speaker 2>force known as the twenty first Bomber Command, the military

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<v Speaker 2>brass brought in a high priest of the bomber mafia,

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<v Speaker 2>a brilliant young general named Hayward Hansel. Hayward Hansel came

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<v Speaker 2>from an aristocratic Southern military family. His great grandfather was

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<v Speaker 2>a general in the Confederate Army, his grandfather a Confederate officer.

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<v Speaker 2>Hansel's father had been an army surgeon who came to

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<v Speaker 2>dinner in a white linen suit and a panama hat.

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<v Speaker 2>Hansel himself was a skilled dancer, a poet, and an

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<v Speaker 2>aficionado of Gilbert and Sullivan operettas. His favorite book was

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<v Speaker 2>Don Quixote. He felt a connection with the knight tilting

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<v Speaker 2>at windmills. He put flying first, Polo second, and family

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<v Speaker 2>a distant third. Once the story goes early in his marriage,

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<v Speaker 2>he heard a baby cry and turned to his wife,

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<v Speaker 2>what's that sound. That's your son, she said. He liked

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<v Speaker 2>to carry a swagger stick, like the English army officers did.

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<v Speaker 2>As a child, he was nicknamed Possum because of the

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<v Speaker 2>narrowness of his face. The name stuck. On his final

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<v Speaker 2>mission as a pilot, a bombing run over Belgium, Hensel

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<v Speaker 2>entertained his exhausted crew with a rendition of the popular

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<v Speaker 2>music hall song The Man on the Flying Trapeze. This

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<v Speaker 2>is the most famous version. Eddie canters, Oh.

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<v Speaker 5>He floats through the air with the greatest evise, this

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<v Speaker 5>daring young man, and I'm the flying trabbe.

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<v Speaker 4>His actions are.

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<v Speaker 2>Graceful, old girls, He does please, and my love was

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<v Speaker 2>soolen away. Of all the bombing fundamentalists to come out

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<v Speaker 2>of the Air Corps tactical school, Heyward Hansel was the

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<v Speaker 2>truest believer the idealist airpower, intelligently and surgically deployed could

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<v Speaker 2>bring any enemy to its knees well.

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<v Speaker 5>The first operation against Japam was called San Antonio one.

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<v Speaker 5>It was coordinated with the Joint Cheese of Staff strategy,

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<v Speaker 5>which made the timing extremely important. As a matter of fact,

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<v Speaker 5>we were going. We were in some danger of standin

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<v Speaker 5>of falling on this operation.

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<v Speaker 2>When Possum Hansel takes over in the Mariannas in nineteen

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<v Speaker 2>forty four, he says to himself, what is the critical

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<v Speaker 2>vulnerability of the Japanese war economy? What can my newbe

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<v Speaker 2>twenty nine's attack. The answer to him is obvious. The

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<v Speaker 2>Japanese air craft manufacturing plants, which are almost entirely concentrated

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<v Speaker 2>in a few factories in and around Tokyo, in particular

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<v Speaker 2>the Nakajima Aircraft Company known as Subru. Today Nakajima made

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<v Speaker 2>at least a third of all Japanese combat aircraft engines.

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<v Speaker 2>Hansel said, let's hit Nakajima, and we'll cripple the Japanese

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<v Speaker 2>fighting force. The newsreel Ronald Reagan narrated, is all about

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<v Speaker 2>that first attack by Hansel on Nakajima.

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<v Speaker 4>Six hours later, through the clouds, they saw it, Fujiyama.

0:14:47.716 --> 0:14:52.276
<v Speaker 4>Here comes some modern symbols, phosphorus, bombs and flag.

0:14:56.316 --> 0:14:59.476
<v Speaker 2>The B twenty nine s traveled fifteen hundred miles from

0:14:59.516 --> 0:15:03.236
<v Speaker 2>the Marianas, skimming over the ocean at several thousand feet.

0:15:03.876 --> 0:15:07.236
<v Speaker 2>As they approached Japan, they climbed twenty five or thirty

0:15:07.276 --> 0:15:11.156
<v Speaker 2>thousand feet out of harm's way. They turned at Mount Fuji,

0:15:11.236 --> 0:15:16.236
<v Speaker 2>then came in from the west over Tokyo. Here, speaking

0:15:16.276 --> 0:15:19.876
<v Speaker 2>over aerial shots of the city, Reagan lays it on thick.

0:15:21.316 --> 0:15:24.196
<v Speaker 4>Within a radius of fifteen miles of the Imperial Palace

0:15:24.236 --> 0:15:28.196
<v Speaker 4>lived seven million Japanese, a people we used to think

0:15:28.236 --> 0:15:32.636
<v Speaker 4>of as small, dainty, polite, concerning themselves only with floral

0:15:32.716 --> 0:15:37.036
<v Speaker 4>arrangements and rock gardens and the cultivation of silkworms. But

0:15:37.116 --> 0:15:40.276
<v Speaker 4>it isn't silkworms, and it isn't Imperial Palace. As these

0:15:40.316 --> 0:15:44.636
<v Speaker 4>men are looking for in the suburbs of Tokyo is

0:15:44.676 --> 0:15:50.076
<v Speaker 4>the huge Nakajima aircraft plant. Well, bud, what are you

0:15:50.156 --> 0:15:50.596
<v Speaker 4>waiting for?

0:15:53.556 --> 0:15:58.676
<v Speaker 2>Like I said? He dated on a little thick That

0:15:58.796 --> 0:16:03.676
<v Speaker 2>first mission, San Antonio I was hugely symbolic proof that

0:16:03.756 --> 0:16:07.396
<v Speaker 2>Japan could finally be reached. But was it a success

0:16:07.396 --> 0:16:12.476
<v Speaker 2>as a military operation? After the war. Speaking to cadets

0:16:12.476 --> 0:16:15.156
<v Speaker 2>at the Air Force Academy, Hansel tried to put a

0:16:15.156 --> 0:16:16.196
<v Speaker 2>good face on things.

0:16:16.916 --> 0:16:20.196
<v Speaker 5>The operation wasn't because had light by un permission help it.

0:16:21.676 --> 0:16:23.956
<v Speaker 5>It did show that it could be done, and this

0:16:24.116 --> 0:16:28.476
<v Speaker 5>was a very very Dunfeld issue.

0:16:28.236 --> 0:16:28.636
<v Speaker 3>At the time.

0:16:29.916 --> 0:16:32.236
<v Speaker 2>The operation wasn't as good as we would have liked,

0:16:33.076 --> 0:16:36.196
<v Speaker 2>was to say the least, an understatement. None of the

0:16:36.236 --> 0:16:39.516
<v Speaker 2>bombs dropped by Hansel's B twenty nine s actually hit

0:16:39.556 --> 0:16:43.236
<v Speaker 2>the Nakajima plant, so Hansel tried again three days later,

0:16:43.316 --> 0:16:48.196
<v Speaker 2>same thing. Hansel sent mission after mission. On one of

0:16:48.236 --> 0:16:50.956
<v Speaker 2>his last attempts, he went back with seventy two B

0:16:51.076 --> 0:16:57.796
<v Speaker 2>twenty nines. They missed the plant and hit a hospital. Heyward,

0:16:57.796 --> 0:17:01.916
<v Speaker 2>Hansel couldn't solve the problem because the problem was much

0:17:01.916 --> 0:17:19.396
<v Speaker 2>bigger than anyone at the time understood. Long after the war,

0:17:19.676 --> 0:17:23.796
<v Speaker 2>one of Heywood Hansel's B twenty nine pilots, Lieutenant Ed Hyatt,

0:17:24.156 --> 0:17:26.676
<v Speaker 2>was interviewed for a documentary by the BBC.

0:17:27.796 --> 0:17:30.916
<v Speaker 6>After flying six hours, we climbed up to bombing altitude.

0:17:31.116 --> 0:17:34.596
<v Speaker 6>We climbed up to thirty seven thousand feet and just

0:17:34.636 --> 0:17:36.876
<v Speaker 6>as we broke out of the storm, there's Mount Fuji

0:17:36.916 --> 0:17:39.956
<v Speaker 6>sitting right in front of us, and it's a gorgeous site.

0:17:39.996 --> 0:17:40.516
<v Speaker 1>It really is.

0:17:41.716 --> 0:17:44.756
<v Speaker 2>Hyatt tried to describe what went wrong on those first

0:17:44.876 --> 0:17:48.676
<v Speaker 2>B twenty nine precision attacks on Tokyo. His bombardier, a

0:17:48.716 --> 0:17:51.716
<v Speaker 2>man named Glenn, starts to make his calculations on their

0:17:51.756 --> 0:17:55.996
<v Speaker 2>bomb site, lining up the Nakajima factory, but the telescope

0:17:56.036 --> 0:17:57.796
<v Speaker 2>on the bomb site wouldn't line up.

0:17:58.316 --> 0:18:00.916
<v Speaker 6>They turned around and he said, he said, I can't

0:18:00.956 --> 0:18:05.876
<v Speaker 6>get this damn telescope on the target. And so we

0:18:06.196 --> 0:18:08.916
<v Speaker 6>called a radar operator check our ground speed and see

0:18:09.196 --> 0:18:11.636
<v Speaker 6>what our ground speed is. He came back and he says,

0:18:11.636 --> 0:18:14.316
<v Speaker 6>we got one hundred and twenty five tailwind. He said,

0:18:14.316 --> 0:18:16.236
<v Speaker 6>we're going about four hundred and eighty miles an hour.

0:18:16.836 --> 0:18:19.716
<v Speaker 6>It's impossible, it can't be. There's no wins like that.

0:18:22.236 --> 0:18:25.436
<v Speaker 2>No Air Force pilots had ever experienced what was now

0:18:25.476 --> 0:18:28.556
<v Speaker 2>happening to the B twenty nine bombers over Japan. They

0:18:28.676 --> 0:18:31.316
<v Speaker 2>expected winds a fraction of these speeds.

0:18:32.356 --> 0:18:34.396
<v Speaker 6>We're going four hundred and eighty miles an hour when

0:18:34.396 --> 0:18:37.116
<v Speaker 6>we should be going three hundred and forty miles an hour.

0:18:38.036 --> 0:18:42.036
<v Speaker 6>I said, well, Glenn dropped the damn bombs. He dropped

0:18:42.036 --> 0:18:44.476
<v Speaker 6>the bombs, and we were already twelve miles past the

0:18:44.516 --> 0:18:46.436
<v Speaker 6>target because of that wind.

0:18:48.436 --> 0:18:51.476
<v Speaker 2>They were bewildered, and back at base they couldn't explain

0:18:51.516 --> 0:18:54.716
<v Speaker 2>what happened to their superiors from.

0:18:54.556 --> 0:18:58.676
<v Speaker 6>The debriefed as they gave us a third degree, they said, no,

0:18:59.636 --> 0:19:02.236
<v Speaker 6>there is no such thing. There can't be a win

0:19:02.476 --> 0:19:05.196
<v Speaker 6>like that. You're a lion. You didn't make it over

0:19:05.236 --> 0:19:06.796
<v Speaker 6>the target. You're just making this up.

0:19:07.956 --> 0:19:10.636
<v Speaker 2>But one crew after another arrived back at the Marianas

0:19:10.996 --> 0:19:12.516
<v Speaker 2>and told the exact same story.

0:19:12.956 --> 0:19:16.716
<v Speaker 7>To tell you how powerful these winds were. A reconnaissance

0:19:16.756 --> 0:19:19.556
<v Speaker 7>plane went up on time to take some pictures after

0:19:19.636 --> 0:19:22.396
<v Speaker 7>a mission to see how effective they'd been, and the

0:19:22.516 --> 0:19:25.836
<v Speaker 7>navigator called the pilot and told him they were going

0:19:25.876 --> 0:19:29.996
<v Speaker 7>three miles an hour backwards. That was something you couldn't

0:19:29.996 --> 0:19:32.236
<v Speaker 7>afford to do, because if you went from east to west,

0:19:32.276 --> 0:19:34.796
<v Speaker 7>you were going to be a sitting duck for Japanese

0:19:34.796 --> 0:19:36.036
<v Speaker 7>fighters or their flag.

0:19:37.556 --> 0:19:41.476
<v Speaker 2>To solve that puzzle, Hensel turned to his team of meteorologists.

0:19:42.076 --> 0:19:45.196
<v Speaker 2>They'd all been trained at the University of Chicago. Back then,

0:19:45.316 --> 0:19:49.276
<v Speaker 2>in the days before a sophisticated radar, meteorologists were crucial

0:19:49.316 --> 0:19:52.236
<v Speaker 2>to the success of bombing campaigns. If you were doing

0:19:52.276 --> 0:19:54.916
<v Speaker 2>a daylight bombing run over a city, you had to

0:19:54.956 --> 0:19:57.796
<v Speaker 2>see the target in order to line up the bomb site,

0:19:57.996 --> 0:20:01.076
<v Speaker 2>and if the skies were too cloudy, that was impossible.

0:20:01.796 --> 0:20:04.236
<v Speaker 2>So going or not going on a mission hinged on

0:20:04.276 --> 0:20:08.436
<v Speaker 2>the weather forecast. But the tools available to meteorologists of

0:20:08.476 --> 0:20:13.596
<v Speaker 2>that era were crude. The easiest thing to forget about

0:20:13.596 --> 0:20:16.836
<v Speaker 2>the Second World War is that it was another technological era.

0:20:17.676 --> 0:20:21.836
<v Speaker 2>It's half twentieth century and half nineteenth century. The chief

0:20:21.916 --> 0:20:25.956
<v Speaker 2>tool of the meteorologists of that time were balloons weather

0:20:25.996 --> 0:20:29.556
<v Speaker 2>balloons that would float up into the atmosphere, carrying little

0:20:29.596 --> 0:20:33.156
<v Speaker 2>instrument kits that could record the wind, the temperature, and

0:20:33.196 --> 0:20:38.636
<v Speaker 2>the humidity and transmit that information back to Earth. I

0:20:38.676 --> 0:20:41.676
<v Speaker 2>asked John Lewis about those days he's a scientist at

0:20:41.676 --> 0:20:44.876
<v Speaker 2>the Desert Research Institute in Nevada. He knew a number

0:20:44.876 --> 0:20:47.356
<v Speaker 2>of the meteorologists who worked with the Air Force during

0:20:47.356 --> 0:20:50.836
<v Speaker 2>the war. Are these balloons they can forgive me? It's

0:20:50.876 --> 0:20:53.556
<v Speaker 2>a very naive question. Are they connected by a rope

0:20:53.636 --> 0:20:54.796
<v Speaker 2>or are they just free floating?

0:20:54.916 --> 0:20:55.076
<v Speaker 4>Oh?

0:20:55.116 --> 0:20:55.916
<v Speaker 1>No, they're released.

0:20:56.036 --> 0:21:00.236
<v Speaker 8>They eventually, as the pressure gets lower, as the balloon

0:21:00.276 --> 0:21:04.276
<v Speaker 8>goes higher in the atmosphere, they expand, expand, expand. Kaboom,

0:21:04.636 --> 0:21:07.556
<v Speaker 8>they explode and they fall to the ground with the

0:21:07.596 --> 0:21:10.796
<v Speaker 8>instrument attached. And at that time they had a message

0:21:10.796 --> 0:21:13.916
<v Speaker 8>on all the instrument packages, could you please return this

0:21:13.956 --> 0:21:16.476
<v Speaker 8>to the University of Chicago in.

0:21:16.436 --> 0:21:19.676
<v Speaker 2>The Pacific field of war. That technique wasn't going to work.

0:21:20.276 --> 0:21:23.156
<v Speaker 2>So there they were, the meteorologists in the middle of

0:21:23.156 --> 0:21:26.076
<v Speaker 2>the Pacific with one of the most important jobs in

0:21:26.116 --> 0:21:29.676
<v Speaker 2>the whole outfit, figuring out when to send the bombers,

0:21:30.236 --> 0:21:39.556
<v Speaker 2>and they're baffled. What's with these winds? On a theoretical level,

0:21:40.276 --> 0:21:44.076
<v Speaker 2>Do they have a suspicion that there may be very

0:21:44.156 --> 0:21:46.356
<v Speaker 2>very high winds at high altitudes at the Air Force?

0:21:46.756 --> 0:21:48.916
<v Speaker 2>Or is it that they don't reach that conclusion until

0:21:48.916 --> 0:21:50.476
<v Speaker 2>the pilots come back with their.

0:21:50.876 --> 0:21:53.956
<v Speaker 8>They did not reach their conclusions until the pilots came back.

0:21:55.476 --> 0:21:58.396
<v Speaker 2>What slowly became clear is that the pilots had stumbled

0:21:58.396 --> 0:22:02.916
<v Speaker 2>on a previously unknown phenomenon in the upper atmosphere, what

0:22:03.076 --> 0:22:07.516
<v Speaker 2>came to be known as the jet stream, a river

0:22:07.636 --> 0:22:10.516
<v Speaker 2>of fast flowing air that circles the globe starting at

0:22:10.556 --> 0:22:14.516
<v Speaker 2>around twenty thousand feet. Some scientists had theorized about the

0:22:14.556 --> 0:22:17.396
<v Speaker 2>jet stream, but until the B twenty nine was built,

0:22:17.676 --> 0:22:20.556
<v Speaker 2>almost no one had ever flown at altitudes high enough

0:22:20.756 --> 0:22:23.076
<v Speaker 2>to experience those winds firsthand.

0:22:24.636 --> 0:22:31.716
<v Speaker 8>This vast stream of air, very narrow, moves from north

0:22:31.956 --> 0:22:37.036
<v Speaker 8>to south in both hemispheres. Basically, it is dividing the

0:22:37.236 --> 0:22:41.316
<v Speaker 8>very cold air of the polar regions from the more

0:22:41.476 --> 0:22:46.156
<v Speaker 8>warm mid latitude and equatorial air.

0:22:46.956 --> 0:22:50.836
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, when you say very narrow, how narrow.

0:22:50.196 --> 0:22:55.836
<v Speaker 8>I would say typically two hundred kilometers across something on

0:22:55.876 --> 0:22:59.116
<v Speaker 8>that order. So that's the narrowness of it.

0:23:00.276 --> 0:23:02.356
<v Speaker 2>And did it entirely encircle the Earth?

0:23:02.756 --> 0:23:03.356
<v Speaker 8>It does?

0:23:05.996 --> 0:23:08.836
<v Speaker 2>So what is the problem facing the pilots gathered on

0:23:08.876 --> 0:23:12.036
<v Speaker 2>the man that in the winter of nineteen forty four

0:23:12.316 --> 0:23:15.996
<v Speaker 2>and the early spring of nineteen forty five, this narrow

0:23:16.236 --> 0:23:18.636
<v Speaker 2>hurricane force band of air known as a jet stream,

0:23:18.956 --> 0:23:23.796
<v Speaker 2>happens to be directly over Japan, and that makes it

0:23:23.836 --> 0:23:27.316
<v Speaker 2>impossible for Hansel to do any of the precision bombing

0:23:27.436 --> 0:23:30.276
<v Speaker 2>that he had planned to do. If they fly across it,

0:23:30.556 --> 0:23:33.636
<v Speaker 2>the plane will get blown sideways. If they fly into it,

0:23:33.836 --> 0:23:36.596
<v Speaker 2>they'll be fighting to stay aloft and be easy targets

0:23:36.636 --> 0:23:39.516
<v Speaker 2>for the Japanese. And if they fly with it, they'll

0:23:39.516 --> 0:23:42.916
<v Speaker 2>be racing too fast to take proper aim. In the

0:23:42.956 --> 0:23:46.316
<v Speaker 2>service of a conviction that bombing could bring Japan to

0:23:46.356 --> 0:23:49.556
<v Speaker 2>its knees, Thousands of Marines had been killed in the

0:23:49.596 --> 0:23:53.716
<v Speaker 2>fight to capture the Marianas. The construction of the three

0:23:53.756 --> 0:23:56.916
<v Speaker 2>island air bases had been one of the most intensive

0:23:57.316 --> 0:24:00.716
<v Speaker 2>engineering feats of the war. The B twenty nine was

0:24:00.796 --> 0:24:04.796
<v Speaker 2>a three billion dollar project that's forty three billion in

0:24:04.836 --> 0:24:08.116
<v Speaker 2>today's money. All of that investment in the air war

0:24:08.156 --> 0:24:12.316
<v Speaker 2>against the Japanese by December of nineteen forty four had

0:24:12.356 --> 0:24:16.316
<v Speaker 2>come up empty. Hansel and all the other brass and

0:24:16.356 --> 0:24:23.196
<v Speaker 2>the Marianas were bewildered. When a true believer discovers that

0:24:23.276 --> 0:24:28.796
<v Speaker 2>his God cannot save him, what's left nothing Heyward Hansel

0:24:29.436 --> 0:24:34.796
<v Speaker 2>was finished in January of nineteen forty five, Hansel was

0:24:34.836 --> 0:24:37.756
<v Speaker 2>relieved of his post as head of the twenty first

0:24:37.756 --> 0:24:41.276
<v Speaker 2>bomber command. In his place was put the man you

0:24:41.356 --> 0:24:46.476
<v Speaker 2>bring in when all else has failed, Curtis le May.

0:24:47.476 --> 0:24:50.916
<v Speaker 2>Even decades later, possum Hansel would bristle when asked about

0:24:50.916 --> 0:24:54.436
<v Speaker 2>the circumstances of his departure and the person who replaced

0:24:54.476 --> 0:24:57.236
<v Speaker 2>him in the Pacific. He had taught le May at

0:24:57.236 --> 0:25:00.316
<v Speaker 2>the Air Court Tactical School and was his commanding officer

0:25:00.316 --> 0:25:04.236
<v Speaker 2>in Europe. Here's Hansel again at the Air Force Academy

0:25:04.236 --> 0:25:07.116
<v Speaker 2>in nineteen sixty seven. He's just been asked a name

0:25:07.156 --> 0:25:10.196
<v Speaker 2>who he felt were the finest officers of his generation.

0:25:11.636 --> 0:25:15.876
<v Speaker 9>Among the people who I knew in my littleitary career,

0:25:16.876 --> 0:25:22.316
<v Speaker 9>I would say the three hank standing ones, John Marshall,

0:25:22.556 --> 0:25:27.516
<v Speaker 9>Joel Andrews and John Fradhn And they were outstanding for

0:25:27.556 --> 0:25:30.076
<v Speaker 9>pretty much the same reason they were man okay, character,

0:25:31.276 --> 0:25:35.956
<v Speaker 9>They were obviously intelligent man, but no a spersonal integrity

0:25:35.996 --> 0:25:36.556
<v Speaker 9>and character.

0:25:37.596 --> 0:25:39.516
<v Speaker 8>General O May was one of your group commanders.

0:25:39.556 --> 0:25:41.476
<v Speaker 3>I not if you didn't put him in this.

0:25:41.556 --> 0:25:46.716
<v Speaker 2>Last group, well exactly. Le May was not a patrician

0:25:47.116 --> 0:25:50.436
<v Speaker 2>with a swagger stick. He did not read Savantes and

0:25:50.516 --> 0:25:53.076
<v Speaker 2>sing musical theater to his crew at the end of

0:25:53.116 --> 0:25:57.316
<v Speaker 2>long missions. He had no time for demonstrations of personal

0:25:57.356 --> 0:26:10.756
<v Speaker 2>integrity and character. He had a problem to solve when

0:26:10.756 --> 0:26:13.956
<v Speaker 2>he takes over the twenty first bombing command. When he

0:26:13.996 --> 0:26:16.516
<v Speaker 2>first arrives in the Marianas, he does not have his

0:26:17.796 --> 0:26:21.036
<v Speaker 2>eventual strategy worked out. His mind is still open.

0:26:21.276 --> 0:26:23.196
<v Speaker 1>Yes, Zach, Yeah, that is correct.

0:26:23.516 --> 0:26:27.556
<v Speaker 2>I'm talking again with the military historian Conrad Crane about

0:26:27.636 --> 0:26:30.796
<v Speaker 2>Curtis the May after he takes over command from General

0:26:30.836 --> 0:26:34.716
<v Speaker 2>Heyward Hansell in January of nineteen forty five. I'm really

0:26:34.756 --> 0:26:38.596
<v Speaker 2>curious to sort of reconstruct his thought process, how he

0:26:38.956 --> 0:26:41.756
<v Speaker 2>all the reasons why he arrives at the strategy finally

0:26:41.836 --> 0:26:45.076
<v Speaker 2>arrives at So he begins by does he begin by

0:26:45.076 --> 0:26:46.836
<v Speaker 2>doing exactly what Hansel had done?

0:26:47.076 --> 0:26:49.676
<v Speaker 1>Well? He he walks in, and he looks around and

0:26:49.716 --> 0:26:52.236
<v Speaker 1>sees the primitive nature of the facilities that said this

0:26:52.276 --> 0:26:52.676
<v Speaker 1>won't do.

0:26:53.356 --> 0:26:56.196
<v Speaker 2>Le May is not happy with the military's infrastructure on

0:26:56.276 --> 0:27:00.356
<v Speaker 2>the Mariannas. It was all built by the Navy's construction Battalion,

0:27:00.676 --> 0:27:03.876
<v Speaker 2>the Seabees. Le May has lost none of his disdain

0:27:03.956 --> 0:27:06.356
<v Speaker 2>for the Navy, the people who cheated in the bombing

0:27:06.396 --> 0:27:07.716
<v Speaker 2>exercise years before.

0:27:09.796 --> 0:27:14.556
<v Speaker 1>He gets invited to have dinner with Admiral Nimtz, who

0:27:14.596 --> 0:27:16.636
<v Speaker 1>also is headquartered in Marianna's And he goes over to

0:27:16.716 --> 0:27:19.876
<v Speaker 1>Nimbus's place and he's in this ornate almost a palace,

0:27:19.916 --> 0:27:23.316
<v Speaker 1>and he gets fed on the very formal naval style

0:27:23.396 --> 0:27:27.156
<v Speaker 1>dinner with the tablecloths and being served and everything. So

0:27:27.196 --> 0:27:29.516
<v Speaker 1>he invites the Admiral Nimmos to visit him for dinner

0:27:30.116 --> 0:27:32.356
<v Speaker 1>in the next couple of days, and Admiral Nimmtz shows

0:27:32.436 --> 0:27:35.836
<v Speaker 1>up for his dinner and they're sitting in a quancert

0:27:35.876 --> 0:27:39.916
<v Speaker 1>hut on a couple of crates, eating sea rations. And

0:27:40.316 --> 0:27:42.036
<v Speaker 1>at the end of the end of the meal, Nimmits

0:27:42.076 --> 0:27:45.076
<v Speaker 1>looks at LeMay and says, I get your point. And

0:27:46.836 --> 0:27:49.276
<v Speaker 1>then he started sending more construction materials to La May

0:27:49.316 --> 0:27:51.556
<v Speaker 1>to help finish up the rest of the facilities.

0:27:52.356 --> 0:27:56.036
<v Speaker 2>By the early spring of nineteen forty five, LeMay was ready.

0:27:57.396 --> 0:27:59.916
<v Speaker 2>He starts out by trying his own version of the

0:27:59.916 --> 0:28:03.596
<v Speaker 2>strategy taken by his predecessor. He decides to take out

0:28:03.596 --> 0:28:06.036
<v Speaker 2>the Nakajima aircraft planned in Tokyo.

0:28:07.476 --> 0:28:10.516
<v Speaker 1>His perception is is that he's still expected to do

0:28:10.596 --> 0:28:13.636
<v Speaker 1>high altitude precision bombing, So he's going to do everything

0:28:13.676 --> 0:28:15.596
<v Speaker 1>he can to make sure that I how Toude precision

0:28:15.636 --> 0:28:17.036
<v Speaker 1>bombing is going to be more effective.

0:28:18.116 --> 0:28:22.036
<v Speaker 2>Le May sends two missions against Nakajima in January, one

0:28:22.036 --> 0:28:26.036
<v Speaker 2>in February another in early March. Hundreds of B twenty

0:28:26.156 --> 0:28:29.796
<v Speaker 2>nine's making the long trek to Japan, and in the

0:28:29.956 --> 0:28:33.876
<v Speaker 2>end the plant is still standing. He's run up against

0:28:33.876 --> 0:28:37.396
<v Speaker 2>the same obstacle as Hensel did. How can I force

0:28:37.476 --> 0:28:41.116
<v Speaker 2>a Japanese surrender from the air if I can't hit anything.

0:28:42.596 --> 0:28:44.996
<v Speaker 1>But when he realizes he's fixed all those problems, there's

0:28:44.996 --> 0:28:47.756
<v Speaker 1>nothing else he can tweak, you know, he says, Okay,

0:28:47.796 --> 0:28:48.916
<v Speaker 1>I'm gott to try something different.

0:28:51.916 --> 0:28:55.156
<v Speaker 2>Le May's first realization is that the jet stream is

0:28:55.196 --> 0:28:58.636
<v Speaker 2>a powerful force. It can't be wished away, and it's

0:28:58.676 --> 0:29:03.996
<v Speaker 2>making everything else impossible. The first principle of precision bombing

0:29:04.036 --> 0:29:07.516
<v Speaker 2>doctrine is that the bomber should come in high, well

0:29:07.556 --> 0:29:10.676
<v Speaker 2>above the range of enemy fire and anti aircraft guns.

0:29:11.676 --> 0:29:14.836
<v Speaker 2>Le May throws it out the window. He decides to

0:29:14.916 --> 0:29:18.236
<v Speaker 2>be twenty nine's will have to fly at lower altitudes

0:29:18.716 --> 0:29:19.516
<v Speaker 2>under the jet.

0:29:19.356 --> 0:29:21.796
<v Speaker 1>Stream and once he realizes he's going to have to

0:29:21.796 --> 0:29:25.076
<v Speaker 1>go to lower altitude. Then that leads to a whole

0:29:25.116 --> 0:29:27.916
<v Speaker 1>set of other conclusions from that.

0:29:28.956 --> 0:29:33.316
<v Speaker 2>Next logical step. Precision bombing was supposed to be daylight bombing.

0:29:33.676 --> 0:29:36.196
<v Speaker 2>You needed to see the target before you could line

0:29:36.276 --> 0:29:39.156
<v Speaker 2>up the bomb site. But if le Maay's bombers came

0:29:39.196 --> 0:29:42.116
<v Speaker 2>in low during the day, they would be sitting ducks

0:29:42.116 --> 0:29:45.996
<v Speaker 2>for the Japanese air defenses. So he decides they have

0:29:46.076 --> 0:29:47.716
<v Speaker 2>to come under cover of night.

0:29:48.156 --> 0:29:50.796
<v Speaker 1>Once you realize you can't go to a high altitude anymore,

0:29:50.996 --> 0:29:53.276
<v Speaker 1>it drives kind of the rest of his decision process.

0:29:54.196 --> 0:29:58.676
<v Speaker 2>Jetstream means low, low means night, and the decision to

0:29:58.676 --> 0:30:02.476
<v Speaker 2>switch to night raids means you can't do precision bombing anymore,

0:30:02.916 --> 0:30:05.396
<v Speaker 2>because there's no way with the technology of the time

0:30:05.716 --> 0:30:07.916
<v Speaker 2>that a bombing crew would be able to focus on

0:30:07.956 --> 0:30:11.956
<v Speaker 2>any precise target if they couldn't see it. So just

0:30:12.076 --> 0:30:17.196
<v Speaker 2>like that, Curtis le May doesn't about face. The man

0:30:17.236 --> 0:30:19.396
<v Speaker 2>who came of age in the high church of precision

0:30:19.476 --> 0:30:23.956
<v Speaker 2>bombing decides, at the most crucial juncture of his career

0:30:24.556 --> 0:30:30.476
<v Speaker 2>to abandon his faith to bomb indiscriminately to become an

0:30:30.516 --> 0:30:34.596
<v Speaker 2>area bomber and what weapon would he use for that task.

0:30:35.436 --> 0:30:37.516
<v Speaker 2>He knew as well as anyone the reports from the

0:30:37.676 --> 0:30:41.756
<v Speaker 2>Army testing grounds back in America, where perfect replicas of

0:30:41.876 --> 0:30:46.876
<v Speaker 2>Japanese towns had been incinerated by Harvard's new wonder weapon.

0:30:49.636 --> 0:30:52.476
<v Speaker 2>The whole plan is so radical that when le May

0:30:52.596 --> 0:30:55.236
<v Speaker 2>sends a copy of it to Washington for the approval

0:30:55.236 --> 0:30:58.356
<v Speaker 2>of his boss, General hap Arnold, he makes sure it

0:30:58.476 --> 0:31:01.716
<v Speaker 2>arrives on a day when Arnold isn't in his office, so.

0:31:01.596 --> 0:31:04.676
<v Speaker 1>He can get that initial raid off before Arnold really

0:31:04.716 --> 0:31:06.396
<v Speaker 1>has a chance to look at it very much, because

0:31:06.396 --> 0:31:10.356
<v Speaker 1>he realizes he's taken a risky es are very valuable.

0:31:10.996 --> 0:31:12.956
<v Speaker 1>It's very risky. You're talking about going in at night,

0:31:13.476 --> 0:31:17.876
<v Speaker 1>low altitude. He leaves most of the ammunition and gunners behind.

0:31:18.636 --> 0:31:22.156
<v Speaker 2>Crucial fact, the only thing LeMay lets his pilots have

0:31:22.596 --> 0:31:26.876
<v Speaker 2>to defend themselves is a tail gunner. All other guns

0:31:26.956 --> 0:31:30.316
<v Speaker 2>are removed. He wants to save as much weight as

0:31:30.316 --> 0:31:37.316
<v Speaker 2>possible for bombs. In the Air Force archives, it is

0:31:37.356 --> 0:31:40.676
<v Speaker 2>possible to find interviews from long ago with pilots who

0:31:40.796 --> 0:31:43.036
<v Speaker 2>remember the day when LeMay told them what was going

0:31:43.076 --> 0:31:44.156
<v Speaker 2>to happen that night.

0:31:45.196 --> 0:31:47.436
<v Speaker 10>And they were just a gasp in the audience because

0:31:47.916 --> 0:31:50.796
<v Speaker 10>you never thought about doing anything high altitude flying.

0:31:51.716 --> 0:31:55.116
<v Speaker 2>This is a B twenty nine navigator named David Braden.

0:31:55.436 --> 0:32:00.236
<v Speaker 10>And you went out and the bottom of your aircraft

0:32:00.236 --> 0:32:03.916
<v Speaker 10>have been painted black. So you do this is going

0:32:03.996 --> 0:32:06.076
<v Speaker 10>to be a different thing. Most of the guys thought

0:32:06.076 --> 0:32:08.516
<v Speaker 10>it was a susi admission.

0:32:08.716 --> 0:32:11.916
<v Speaker 2>And Braden's commander, Curtis le May, know this was going

0:32:11.996 --> 0:32:15.836
<v Speaker 2>to work. Of course he didn't, but remember his words,

0:32:16.236 --> 0:32:19.196
<v Speaker 2>the credo of the man who gets things done. I'd

0:32:19.316 --> 0:32:22.396
<v Speaker 2>rather have someone who was real stupid but did something

0:32:22.876 --> 0:32:27.316
<v Speaker 2>than have someone who'd vacillate and do nothing. Curtis le

0:32:27.436 --> 0:32:30.436
<v Speaker 2>May was going to do something. He was going to

0:32:30.476 --> 0:32:34.116
<v Speaker 2>aery A Bob Tokyo under cover of night with napalm.

0:32:35.676 --> 0:32:37.476
<v Speaker 3>I woke up one day and I'd been up there

0:32:37.516 --> 0:32:40.396
<v Speaker 3>for about two months. I hadn't done anything much, yet

0:32:41.516 --> 0:32:42.556
<v Speaker 3>I'd better do something.

0:32:45.316 --> 0:32:47.756
<v Speaker 2>I wonder if this is why le May fascinated so

0:32:47.796 --> 0:32:50.676
<v Speaker 2>many people in his day, because of his ability to

0:32:50.716 --> 0:32:53.956
<v Speaker 2>make that sudden turn, to turn his back on who

0:32:53.996 --> 0:32:58.396
<v Speaker 2>he was in the service of solving the problem. Curtis

0:32:58.476 --> 0:33:01.276
<v Speaker 2>le May was a member of the Bombing Mafia, a

0:33:01.316 --> 0:33:04.676
<v Speaker 2>graduate of the Air Corps Tactical School, a proponent of

0:33:04.756 --> 0:33:10.276
<v Speaker 2>precision bombing progress unhindered by custom. Later in his career

0:33:10.476 --> 0:33:13.636
<v Speaker 2>he would champion something called the B seventy bomber, an

0:33:13.636 --> 0:33:20.196
<v Speaker 2>airplane so absurdly complicated, so ridiculously advanced, so preposterously expensive,

0:33:20.476 --> 0:33:24.476
<v Speaker 2>and so deliciously and fantastically tricked out that the Air

0:33:24.516 --> 0:33:29.316
<v Speaker 2>Force only built two prototypes, one of which crashed. The

0:33:29.396 --> 0:33:33.796
<v Speaker 2>other has spent its entire life in the museum. Le

0:33:33.916 --> 0:33:37.116
<v Speaker 2>May was in his heart always the little boy who

0:33:37.196 --> 0:33:41.316
<v Speaker 2>ran after airplanes in the sky, and yet when he

0:33:41.396 --> 0:33:45.276
<v Speaker 2>needed to, he could take all that, his entire identity,

0:33:45.356 --> 0:33:49.836
<v Speaker 2>the modern, progressive, skilled war maker, and throw it out

0:33:49.836 --> 0:33:50.276
<v Speaker 2>the window.

0:33:52.076 --> 0:33:52.196
<v Speaker 1>May.

0:33:52.276 --> 0:33:56.916
<v Speaker 10>Where did the idea for the low level fire attacks originate?

0:33:57.996 --> 0:33:58.396
<v Speaker 6>Oh?

0:33:59.356 --> 0:33:59.516
<v Speaker 4>Were?

0:33:59.556 --> 0:34:03.036
<v Speaker 3>You had ideas flying back and forth a lot. It

0:34:03.076 --> 0:34:07.396
<v Speaker 3>was my basic decision made it. Nobody said anything about

0:34:07.476 --> 0:34:10.596
<v Speaker 3>night saintury vomit where he had to have some results

0:34:10.676 --> 0:34:12.956
<v Speaker 3>and I had to produce him. If I didn't produce them,

0:34:13.036 --> 0:34:14.556
<v Speaker 3>or made the long guess, get another.

0:34:14.356 --> 0:34:15.276
<v Speaker 1>Commander in there.

0:34:16.916 --> 0:34:21.236
<v Speaker 3>That's what happened to hansle You've got no results, I'd

0:34:21.316 --> 0:34:23.876
<v Speaker 3>have them. That's the reason for it.

0:34:26.116 --> 0:34:29.916
<v Speaker 2>On the night of March ninth, nineteen forty five, Curtis

0:34:29.996 --> 0:34:34.436
<v Speaker 2>le May launched Operation Meetinghouse. He sent three hundred and

0:34:34.636 --> 0:34:38.596
<v Speaker 2>thirty four B twenty nine's from the Marianas to Tokyo,

0:34:39.196 --> 0:34:42.716
<v Speaker 2>loaded with as much napalm as they could carry. The

0:34:42.836 --> 0:34:47.236
<v Speaker 2>target was not the Nakajima aircraft plant. That plan was over.

0:34:48.196 --> 0:34:51.676
<v Speaker 2>The new target was a densely populated region of Tokyo

0:34:52.156 --> 0:34:55.156
<v Speaker 2>straddling the Sumita River, a few miles east of the

0:34:55.236 --> 0:35:02.756
<v Speaker 2>Imperial Palace Zone one. The first few bombers dropped flares,

0:35:03.196 --> 0:35:06.756
<v Speaker 2>marking the target area for those that followed. Le Maay

0:35:06.876 --> 0:35:10.556
<v Speaker 2>was sending in his bombers at five thousand feet incredibly low.

0:35:11.596 --> 0:35:15.396
<v Speaker 2>That was so crazy that the Japanese were completely unprepared.

0:35:17.516 --> 0:35:20.236
<v Speaker 2>The bombs fell from the B twenty nine in clusters.

0:35:20.996 --> 0:35:24.876
<v Speaker 2>They were small steel pipes twenty inches long, weighing six pounds,

0:35:25.356 --> 0:35:30.076
<v Speaker 2>packed with tnt in napalm, little baby bombs, each with

0:35:30.196 --> 0:35:32.836
<v Speaker 2>a long silver gauze streamer at one end, so that

0:35:33.036 --> 0:35:35.516
<v Speaker 2>if you looked in the sky that night in Tokyo,

0:35:36.036 --> 0:35:39.716
<v Speaker 2>there would have been a moment of extraordinary beauty, thousands

0:35:39.916 --> 0:35:43.836
<v Speaker 2>of these little silver daggers falling down to earth and

0:35:44.036 --> 0:35:53.076
<v Speaker 2>then boom on impact. Thousands of small explosions, burning gloves

0:35:53.116 --> 0:35:58.756
<v Speaker 2>of napalm thrown in every direction, All told by morning,

0:35:59.316 --> 0:36:02.556
<v Speaker 2>one thousand, six hundred and sixty five tons of napalm

0:36:03.076 --> 0:36:09.836
<v Speaker 2>dropped on Tokyo in one night. Circling high above Tokyo

0:36:10.196 --> 0:36:15.036
<v Speaker 2>is the master bomber, LeMay's deputy, Tommy Power, choreographing the attack.

0:36:16.156 --> 0:36:19.356
<v Speaker 2>Conrad Crane says that Power sat in his cockpit drawing

0:36:19.476 --> 0:36:20.756
<v Speaker 2>pictures of everything he saw.

0:36:22.196 --> 0:36:23.876
<v Speaker 1>He remarked, you know, the air was soul ful of

0:36:23.916 --> 0:36:26.116
<v Speaker 1>and sented areas you could not have walked through them.

0:36:26.716 --> 0:36:29.716
<v Speaker 1>By two thirty seven, the largest visual fire areas was

0:36:29.756 --> 0:36:33.676
<v Speaker 1>about forty blocks long and fifteen wide. The smoke was

0:36:33.756 --> 0:36:38.196
<v Speaker 1>up to twenty five thousand feet. When he draws his

0:36:38.876 --> 0:36:42.596
<v Speaker 1>last sketch, which is about an hour after initial his

0:36:42.756 --> 0:36:46.156
<v Speaker 1>first one, there's basically a score of separate areas from

0:36:46.196 --> 0:36:48.756
<v Speaker 1>fifty to one thousand city blocks burning at the same time,

0:36:49.476 --> 0:36:51.916
<v Speaker 1>and his last part last report says that the glow

0:36:51.996 --> 0:36:54.476
<v Speaker 1>from the fires was visible one hundred and fifty miles away.

0:36:57.956 --> 0:37:02.556
<v Speaker 2>The napom creates a firestorm, a conflagration hundreds of blocks long,

0:37:03.156 --> 0:37:06.356
<v Speaker 2>a fire of such intensity and duration that it creates

0:37:06.476 --> 0:37:12.316
<v Speaker 2>and sustains its own wind system. Everything burns sixteen square miles.

0:37:12.716 --> 0:37:16.116
<v Speaker 2>Buildings burst into flame before the fire even reaches them.

0:37:18.796 --> 0:37:22.996
<v Speaker 2>After the war, the US Strategic Bombing Survey concluded the following.

0:37:24.196 --> 0:37:27.796
<v Speaker 2>Probably more persons lost their lives by fire at Tokyo

0:37:27.956 --> 0:37:31.436
<v Speaker 2>in a six hour period than any time in the

0:37:31.596 --> 0:37:38.316
<v Speaker 2>history of man. More than one hundred thousand people died

0:37:38.356 --> 0:37:38.716
<v Speaker 2>that night.

0:37:40.476 --> 0:37:43.156
<v Speaker 10>Frankly, when those cities were on fire, it looked like

0:37:43.276 --> 0:37:45.196
<v Speaker 10>you're looking into the mouth of hell. I mean, you

0:37:45.716 --> 0:37:47.516
<v Speaker 10>should not imagine a fire that big.

0:37:49.396 --> 0:37:51.356
<v Speaker 2>Over the course of the spring and summer of nineteen

0:37:51.436 --> 0:37:55.316
<v Speaker 2>forty five, LeMay went on to firebomb another sixty six

0:37:55.676 --> 0:38:00.316
<v Speaker 2>Japanese cities. In the chaos of war. The dead were

0:38:00.356 --> 0:38:03.356
<v Speaker 2>never counted. The final toll may be as high as

0:38:03.396 --> 0:38:04.036
<v Speaker 2>half a million.

0:38:04.956 --> 0:38:07.396
<v Speaker 1>They're about five thousand feet. They are pretty low. They

0:38:07.436 --> 0:38:12.396
<v Speaker 1>are low enough that the ah, the smell of burning

0:38:12.516 --> 0:38:15.316
<v Speaker 1>flesh permeates the aircraft. They actually have to fumigate the

0:38:15.356 --> 0:38:18.916
<v Speaker 1>aircraft when they land back in the Marianas because the

0:38:18.996 --> 0:38:21.356
<v Speaker 1>smell of burning flesh remains within the aircraft.

0:38:22.396 --> 0:38:27.636
<v Speaker 2>Two cities were spared, Nagasaki and Hiroshima. They were left

0:38:27.716 --> 0:38:31.156
<v Speaker 2>for another day and another Air Force command with a

0:38:31.236 --> 0:38:33.236
<v Speaker 2>different idea of how to win a war.

0:38:37.676 --> 0:38:38.156
<v Speaker 3>Thank you all.

0:38:41.876 --> 0:38:46.116
<v Speaker 2>On August fifteenth, nineteen forty five, at twelve noon, the

0:38:46.196 --> 0:38:52.716
<v Speaker 2>Emperor of Japan surrendered. The Air Force was asked to

0:38:52.756 --> 0:38:55.716
<v Speaker 2>bring Japan to its knees from the air so that

0:38:55.796 --> 0:39:03.196
<v Speaker 2>a ground invasion could be avoided. They succeeded. Next week

0:39:03.796 --> 0:39:07.476
<v Speaker 2>The reckoning When you burn alive hundreds of thousands of

0:39:07.556 --> 0:39:12.156
<v Speaker 2>civilians in the course of a military objective, What happens next?

0:39:19.676 --> 0:39:23.516
<v Speaker 2>Revisionist History is produced by Mee La Belle and Lee Mingestou,

0:39:23.916 --> 0:39:27.516
<v Speaker 2>with Jacob Smith, Eloise Linton and on An. I'm our

0:39:27.636 --> 0:39:32.076
<v Speaker 2>editor is Julia Barton. Original scoring by Luis Garra, mastering

0:39:32.156 --> 0:39:36.116
<v Speaker 2>by Flon Williams, fact checking by Beth Johnson. Special thanks

0:39:36.156 --> 0:39:41.316
<v Speaker 2>to the Pushkin Crew, Hetephane Carly Migliore, Maya Knigg, Maggie Taylor,

0:39:41.396 --> 0:39:45.756
<v Speaker 2>Jason Gambrel and of course Jacob Weisberg. I'm Malcolm Blackwell.