1 00:00:11,840 --> 00:00:14,560 Speaker 1: Good morning, peeps, and welcome to bokay F Daily with 2 00:00:14,720 --> 00:00:18,880 Speaker 1: Meet your Girl Danielle Moody. Recording from the Bunker. Folks, 3 00:00:18,920 --> 00:00:24,119 Speaker 1: we have a very special woke F Pride episode today. 4 00:00:24,239 --> 00:00:27,000 Speaker 1: I am really excited for you all to hear the 5 00:00:27,120 --> 00:00:31,040 Speaker 1: voice and see the face of my producer Andrew Marcello, 6 00:00:31,120 --> 00:00:33,720 Speaker 1: who has been the producer for woke F for the 7 00:00:33,880 --> 00:00:37,080 Speaker 1: last five years and is the reason why the show 8 00:00:37,800 --> 00:00:41,159 Speaker 1: is as great as it is, and so on today's episode, 9 00:00:41,800 --> 00:00:44,800 Speaker 1: for our Pride Month special, we get into a conversation 10 00:00:44,880 --> 00:00:51,200 Speaker 1: about what young queer people are thinking with regard to 11 00:00:51,240 --> 00:00:54,760 Speaker 1: their feelings around Pride, but also for Andrew, you know 12 00:00:54,880 --> 00:00:59,800 Speaker 1: how his identity has shaped his political views and narrative, 13 00:01:00,400 --> 00:01:04,920 Speaker 1: and thinking about what the pushback and violent pushback at 14 00:01:04,959 --> 00:01:08,880 Speaker 1: that that the LGBTQ community is experiencing at this time, 15 00:01:09,160 --> 00:01:11,760 Speaker 1: what this means for the future. So we're going to 16 00:01:11,840 --> 00:01:16,800 Speaker 1: get into this conversation and so much more today on 17 00:01:16,880 --> 00:01:21,120 Speaker 1: woke F. I will give you my thoughts on the hearing, 18 00:01:21,640 --> 00:01:24,200 Speaker 1: which has as of the taping of this has not 19 00:01:24,280 --> 00:01:28,200 Speaker 1: yet happened, so I will be doing that later in 20 00:01:28,240 --> 00:01:31,000 Speaker 1: the week. But coming up next my conversation with woke 21 00:01:31,240 --> 00:01:38,600 Speaker 1: F producer Andrew Marcello. Folks, I am very excited about 22 00:01:38,680 --> 00:01:43,120 Speaker 1: today's episode because we're actually peeling back the woke F 23 00:01:44,120 --> 00:01:50,040 Speaker 1: curtain and having a conversation with Andrew Marcello, my producer 24 00:01:50,080 --> 00:01:53,640 Speaker 1: who's been the producer of woke F my god for 25 00:01:54,160 --> 00:01:57,080 Speaker 1: I don't actually know how long Andrew, how long it 26 00:01:57,080 --> 00:02:00,640 Speaker 1: has been. It's been legitimately it's almost five years. Legitimately 27 00:02:00,640 --> 00:02:05,600 Speaker 1: five years. And Andrew is the person that has makes 28 00:02:05,640 --> 00:02:10,520 Speaker 1: this show magic, makes it sound good, makes it brings 29 00:02:10,560 --> 00:02:13,800 Speaker 1: in the guests that you all enjoy. And so during 30 00:02:13,800 --> 00:02:18,640 Speaker 1: this Pride we decided to have a conversation that we 31 00:02:18,760 --> 00:02:22,400 Speaker 1: probably have over text a million times and actually take 32 00:02:22,440 --> 00:02:27,640 Speaker 1: the text conversation to the podcast. So, Andrew, we'll start 33 00:02:27,639 --> 00:02:30,160 Speaker 1: out the way that we have with the last several 34 00:02:30,200 --> 00:02:33,400 Speaker 1: guests that we've had on this show. Our theme this 35 00:02:33,480 --> 00:02:38,160 Speaker 1: month has been Pride as a Riot. What does pride 36 00:02:38,440 --> 00:02:41,040 Speaker 1: mean to you? What does that theme mean to you? 37 00:02:42,200 --> 00:02:45,960 Speaker 1: That's actually a great question. Now I understand why people 38 00:02:46,000 --> 00:02:51,000 Speaker 1: say that so often. Let me answer you, but yeah, 39 00:02:51,080 --> 00:02:55,519 Speaker 1: it's what does pride mean to me? I think? So 40 00:02:55,600 --> 00:02:59,919 Speaker 1: you you started off mentioning my identity, and I am pansexual, 41 00:03:00,040 --> 00:03:02,120 Speaker 1: and I realized that I was pansexual I think when 42 00:03:02,160 --> 00:03:06,080 Speaker 1: I was eighteen, But pride actually wasn't really something that 43 00:03:06,160 --> 00:03:10,800 Speaker 1: I thought about until my adult life after I graduated college. 44 00:03:11,000 --> 00:03:14,799 Speaker 1: A few years after I graduated college, actually probably around 45 00:03:15,040 --> 00:03:17,520 Speaker 1: twenty sixteen or twenty seventeen, when I moved to New 46 00:03:17,600 --> 00:03:19,520 Speaker 1: York from living in New Jersey and sort of living 47 00:03:19,520 --> 00:03:21,400 Speaker 1: in the same environment that I had lived in before 48 00:03:21,440 --> 00:03:24,239 Speaker 1: going to college. I think part of that is that 49 00:03:24,919 --> 00:03:29,680 Speaker 1: my immediate family didn't necessarily recognize my sexuality. They were 50 00:03:29,720 --> 00:03:33,720 Speaker 1: kind of just like in denial about it, and rather 51 00:03:33,760 --> 00:03:35,760 Speaker 1: than like push back against that harder and have that 52 00:03:35,840 --> 00:03:37,240 Speaker 1: make me feel like, oh, I'm going to be really 53 00:03:37,320 --> 00:03:38,800 Speaker 1: loud about it, I was just like, Okay, you know, 54 00:03:38,880 --> 00:03:41,760 Speaker 1: you'll you'll deny me, and I'll find like other outlets 55 00:03:41,760 --> 00:03:44,640 Speaker 1: and other ways to express this. But once I moved 56 00:03:44,680 --> 00:03:46,800 Speaker 1: to New York, and once I was in a partnership 57 00:03:46,800 --> 00:03:49,400 Speaker 1: and environment where I felt more like I could, you know, 58 00:03:49,480 --> 00:03:55,600 Speaker 1: be outwardly myself pride to some extent, At the beginning, 59 00:03:55,880 --> 00:03:59,840 Speaker 1: I was almost envious of people who, to me as 60 00:03:59,880 --> 00:04:02,040 Speaker 1: an outside observer, they had already gotten to where I 61 00:04:02,080 --> 00:04:05,120 Speaker 1: wanted to be, Like I saw not just like the 62 00:04:05,280 --> 00:04:10,280 Speaker 1: NYC Pride Parade, but the Unicorn Parade in Brooklyn. Like 63 00:04:10,360 --> 00:04:12,760 Speaker 1: that was something that I looked at as like, Wow, 64 00:04:12,800 --> 00:04:15,200 Speaker 1: that's incredible that like these people can go out there 65 00:04:15,240 --> 00:04:18,920 Speaker 1: and just like be themselves and celebrate themselves in a 66 00:04:18,960 --> 00:04:24,320 Speaker 1: way that I do not feel comfortable with. And so 67 00:04:24,360 --> 00:04:27,880 Speaker 1: when I think about Pride, I think about that journey 68 00:04:28,000 --> 00:04:31,560 Speaker 1: that it took me to get from. Like because as myself, 69 00:04:31,800 --> 00:04:35,599 Speaker 1: I am assis white man. Because I'm pansexual, I date, 70 00:04:35,920 --> 00:04:37,520 Speaker 1: I can, you know, day and be with people of 71 00:04:37,560 --> 00:04:40,040 Speaker 1: all genders, and I do end up in relationships with 72 00:04:40,080 --> 00:04:42,680 Speaker 1: sis women that you know, from the outside it looks like, okay, 73 00:04:42,720 --> 00:04:45,480 Speaker 1: we could both be straight. That's often not the case, 74 00:04:45,760 --> 00:04:48,360 Speaker 1: but outside observers don't know, so I can be like 75 00:04:48,520 --> 00:04:52,279 Speaker 1: straight passing. And so to me, to sum up, Pride 76 00:04:52,520 --> 00:04:55,440 Speaker 1: is rejecting that and rejecting the idea of being straight 77 00:04:55,440 --> 00:04:59,200 Speaker 1: passing and like being loud and proud about the fact 78 00:04:59,240 --> 00:05:02,720 Speaker 1: that I am pants and I'm existing in my life 79 00:05:02,760 --> 00:05:05,599 Speaker 1: in this way even when you're not perceiving me that way. 80 00:05:05,640 --> 00:05:09,279 Speaker 1: You know. I think that there are some people who 81 00:05:09,400 --> 00:05:13,040 Speaker 1: may have heard of the term pan sexual and that 82 00:05:13,080 --> 00:05:16,400 Speaker 1: may have come into the lexicon because of a couple 83 00:05:16,400 --> 00:05:19,600 Speaker 1: of celebrities, Janelle Monee being one of them, who came 84 00:05:19,600 --> 00:05:22,159 Speaker 1: out as pan sexual a couple of years ago. Can 85 00:05:22,200 --> 00:05:26,320 Speaker 1: you explain to the audience who may not be familiar 86 00:05:26,360 --> 00:05:29,679 Speaker 1: with with all of the terms, what does pant set, 87 00:05:29,680 --> 00:05:33,200 Speaker 1: what does the pan sexual identity mean to you? And 88 00:05:33,240 --> 00:05:38,599 Speaker 1: how did you come to understand this about yourself? Sure, 89 00:05:39,120 --> 00:05:41,159 Speaker 1: one thing I will say, since you mentioned Janelle Monee, 90 00:05:41,200 --> 00:05:44,000 Speaker 1: I think it's great that Janelle Monee had this music 91 00:05:44,080 --> 00:05:46,960 Speaker 1: video a few years ago that, like, you know, bisexual 92 00:05:47,040 --> 00:05:48,839 Speaker 1: lighting is now a term that gets used a lot 93 00:05:48,880 --> 00:05:52,400 Speaker 1: because the bisexual flag is just like, very aesthetically appealing colors, 94 00:05:52,400 --> 00:05:55,120 Speaker 1: and a lot of art, either on purpose or by accident, 95 00:05:55,320 --> 00:05:57,960 Speaker 1: uses the color scheme of the bisexual flag. But I 96 00:05:58,000 --> 00:06:00,440 Speaker 1: believe with her it was very purposeful given the content 97 00:06:00,480 --> 00:06:02,760 Speaker 1: that she was putting out there. But now she identifies 98 00:06:02,800 --> 00:06:05,440 Speaker 1: publicly as pan sexual, and so I think that's an 99 00:06:05,440 --> 00:06:09,240 Speaker 1: indication that, like there is crossover in those identities, but 100 00:06:09,279 --> 00:06:12,239 Speaker 1: they're not the same. And also, you know, a person 101 00:06:12,279 --> 00:06:16,880 Speaker 1: who identifies as by one year, you know, might realize 102 00:06:16,920 --> 00:06:20,800 Speaker 1: that pan fits better for them or vice versa, and 103 00:06:20,880 --> 00:06:24,440 Speaker 1: so you know, just because to introduce my answer, I'm 104 00:06:24,480 --> 00:06:27,080 Speaker 1: just thinking about the fact that, unfortunately there is some 105 00:06:27,120 --> 00:06:32,640 Speaker 1: friction between prescriptivists when it comes to language, and I 106 00:06:32,680 --> 00:06:35,400 Speaker 1: do think they are distinct. But at the same time, 107 00:06:35,720 --> 00:06:40,160 Speaker 1: it's okay for a person who's pand to realize that 108 00:06:40,279 --> 00:06:43,479 Speaker 1: there by and then later realize that maybe they were 109 00:06:43,520 --> 00:06:47,000 Speaker 1: incorrect and they have been panned all along. And those 110 00:06:47,040 --> 00:06:49,000 Speaker 1: things happen with all kinds of different identities. I know, 111 00:06:49,160 --> 00:06:52,919 Speaker 1: you know people who they started their life, like most 112 00:06:52,960 --> 00:06:57,640 Speaker 1: people probably interact indoctrinated into heteropatriarchy, thinking straight and then 113 00:06:58,279 --> 00:07:00,520 Speaker 1: you know this just as an example, this person then 114 00:07:00,760 --> 00:07:04,000 Speaker 1: thought they were a lesbian, and then they thought they 115 00:07:04,000 --> 00:07:07,360 Speaker 1: were a straight trans man, and then they thought they 116 00:07:07,360 --> 00:07:10,480 Speaker 1: were a gay trans man, and so like that's an example. 117 00:07:10,520 --> 00:07:13,640 Speaker 1: But you know, through life sexuality is fluid. Is a 118 00:07:13,640 --> 00:07:15,760 Speaker 1: trend that gets used a lot, but like through life, 119 00:07:16,120 --> 00:07:19,200 Speaker 1: that is something that's true. And to segue, I think 120 00:07:19,560 --> 00:07:24,080 Speaker 1: for myself, pan sexuality is a state of fluidity. It's 121 00:07:24,120 --> 00:07:27,760 Speaker 1: this state of like, I'm not rigidly attracted to any 122 00:07:28,280 --> 00:07:32,280 Speaker 1: gender category. For some people, I think they use it 123 00:07:32,400 --> 00:07:36,280 Speaker 1: or interpret it as gender doesn't matter to me, or 124 00:07:36,320 --> 00:07:41,160 Speaker 1: I don't perceive gender. However, you know, whoever is pansexual, 125 00:07:41,160 --> 00:07:43,040 Speaker 1: and however it applies to them, that's valid to me. 126 00:07:43,520 --> 00:07:46,400 Speaker 1: What it means is like, of course I perceive your gender, 127 00:07:46,440 --> 00:07:50,120 Speaker 1: but I'm attracted to you irrespective of your gender. I'm 128 00:07:50,160 --> 00:07:52,800 Speaker 1: attracted to a lot of people use the term hearts 129 00:07:52,840 --> 00:07:54,640 Speaker 1: not parts, which is kind of cringey, and I'm not 130 00:07:54,720 --> 00:07:58,640 Speaker 1: endorsing it, but the message's your faith. But the message 131 00:07:58,680 --> 00:08:01,840 Speaker 1: of it is like, you know, you understand the meaning 132 00:08:01,840 --> 00:08:03,520 Speaker 1: of right. I do think it's cringe but like the 133 00:08:03,560 --> 00:08:07,520 Speaker 1: idea you're falling in love with a person not you know, 134 00:08:07,720 --> 00:08:12,200 Speaker 1: not what they are either you know, ascribed to or 135 00:08:12,240 --> 00:08:16,080 Speaker 1: assigned or in any way that has to do with 136 00:08:16,240 --> 00:08:19,760 Speaker 1: their physicality. Right, I'll say that, I'll say exactly exactly. 137 00:08:19,800 --> 00:08:23,040 Speaker 1: It goes beyond gender. It's it's gender to the physical form. 138 00:08:23,080 --> 00:08:26,640 Speaker 1: I'm glad you understand that. Yeah, you know, so I 139 00:08:26,680 --> 00:08:30,239 Speaker 1: think that what is really what I find really interesting now. 140 00:08:30,760 --> 00:08:32,400 Speaker 1: And there have been like a couple of studies that 141 00:08:32,440 --> 00:08:36,280 Speaker 1: have been done recently with younger people, and I want 142 00:08:36,280 --> 00:08:39,199 Speaker 1: to say younger, and I mean like thirty and below, um, 143 00:08:39,480 --> 00:08:44,400 Speaker 1: where people are more so choosing to identify themselves as 144 00:08:44,400 --> 00:08:50,479 Speaker 1: either pan sexual, non binary um in a more outside 145 00:08:50,600 --> 00:08:54,920 Speaker 1: of these prescribe box place. What do you think that 146 00:08:55,040 --> 00:08:59,719 Speaker 1: it is that has because society in general, I mean 147 00:08:59,760 --> 00:09:03,120 Speaker 1: for queer people, particularly trans people, has become a lot 148 00:09:03,160 --> 00:09:07,840 Speaker 1: more unsafe, has become a lot more violent. So what 149 00:09:07,920 --> 00:09:11,680 Speaker 1: do you think, you know, just on your own ideas 150 00:09:11,679 --> 00:09:13,760 Speaker 1: and in your own community, what do you think has 151 00:09:13,920 --> 00:09:19,080 Speaker 1: people now ascribe themselves to be more outside of the 152 00:09:19,120 --> 00:09:26,439 Speaker 1: box than before? What I perceive or have perceived among 153 00:09:26,960 --> 00:09:30,600 Speaker 1: my generation and sort of my generational peers, I guess 154 00:09:30,920 --> 00:09:32,719 Speaker 1: it's hard to speak for a whole generation, but like 155 00:09:32,760 --> 00:09:35,600 Speaker 1: my generational peers who are sort of in my narrow 156 00:09:35,880 --> 00:09:39,200 Speaker 1: five year age group, I would say, and you know, 157 00:09:39,280 --> 00:09:43,520 Speaker 1: within the more left wing queer or at least queer 158 00:09:43,559 --> 00:09:47,319 Speaker 1: friendly group, I think there's been a transformation in how 159 00:09:47,320 --> 00:09:53,560 Speaker 1: we understand gender, sex sexuality. For me, a lot of 160 00:09:53,559 --> 00:09:57,320 Speaker 1: that just came from being exposed to more different kinds 161 00:09:57,320 --> 00:10:00,319 Speaker 1: of people. I also had the privilege of how a 162 00:10:00,400 --> 00:10:02,880 Speaker 1: college education that didn't include I went to a Catholic 163 00:10:02,960 --> 00:10:07,200 Speaker 1: university and we had probably a Title nine mandated Women 164 00:10:07,200 --> 00:10:09,839 Speaker 1: and Gender studies department, and it was like one class 165 00:10:09,880 --> 00:10:13,040 Speaker 1: every semester. To keep that department rolling, and you bet 166 00:10:13,080 --> 00:10:16,439 Speaker 1: I took at whatever class one class was being offered 167 00:10:16,520 --> 00:10:20,280 Speaker 1: that semester. But even beyond that, I was on I 168 00:10:20,320 --> 00:10:22,480 Speaker 1: was thinking about this earlier before we talked, I was 169 00:10:22,480 --> 00:10:24,400 Speaker 1: on Tumblr and at the time, like at the turn 170 00:10:24,440 --> 00:10:26,959 Speaker 1: of the twenty tens, Tumbler was it. Tumbler was the 171 00:10:27,000 --> 00:10:30,520 Speaker 1: place to be. And they're sure there was misinformation and 172 00:10:30,559 --> 00:10:34,600 Speaker 1: misunderstanding on Tumbler, but at the same time it exposed people, 173 00:10:34,679 --> 00:10:37,800 Speaker 1: and especially younger people and people who were becoming young 174 00:10:37,840 --> 00:10:40,480 Speaker 1: adults around the same time that I was, to these 175 00:10:40,520 --> 00:10:44,160 Speaker 1: ideas that like some people would radically explain it as 176 00:10:44,240 --> 00:10:46,400 Speaker 1: gender does not exist. Some people would, in a more 177 00:10:46,480 --> 00:10:49,360 Speaker 1: nuanced way, explain gender is a social construct and explain 178 00:10:49,480 --> 00:10:52,480 Speaker 1: how I'm not there to explain those things. If you're 179 00:10:52,520 --> 00:10:54,760 Speaker 1: not aware of those things, there's a lot of more 180 00:10:54,800 --> 00:10:57,320 Speaker 1: intelligent and informed people than I am to explain those 181 00:10:57,440 --> 00:11:00,480 Speaker 1: very detailed concepts if you were not familiar, but your listener, 182 00:11:00,520 --> 00:11:03,439 Speaker 1: if you're aware and familiar with the idea of gender 183 00:11:03,480 --> 00:11:06,960 Speaker 1: being a social construct, and even the fact that I 184 00:11:07,000 --> 00:11:10,080 Speaker 1: can say that, right, do you like do you think 185 00:11:10,120 --> 00:11:12,040 Speaker 1: I wasn't an adult at the time, but like, if 186 00:11:12,080 --> 00:11:14,280 Speaker 1: you think back to like the mid two thousands, well 187 00:11:14,320 --> 00:11:18,600 Speaker 1: before the concept of gender being a social construct. Did 188 00:11:18,640 --> 00:11:22,719 Speaker 1: that exist within the general public consciousness? No, it honestly did, 189 00:11:22,720 --> 00:11:25,320 Speaker 1: and I don't even think I think that in general 190 00:11:26,400 --> 00:11:30,199 Speaker 1: we were still trying to wrap our minds around what 191 00:11:30,600 --> 00:11:34,000 Speaker 1: it meant to be trans, right, So, so, oh sure, 192 00:11:34,120 --> 00:11:37,040 Speaker 1: I watched Comity Central, right, So it was it was 193 00:11:37,280 --> 00:11:40,880 Speaker 1: really that as being and as a person that has 194 00:11:40,920 --> 00:11:44,280 Speaker 1: been in movement LGBTQ movement politics for a long time, 195 00:11:44,920 --> 00:11:49,440 Speaker 1: even being trans and having those conversations was divergent to 196 00:11:49,720 --> 00:11:54,360 Speaker 1: the rest of the LGBU community, right who who at 197 00:11:54,360 --> 00:11:57,839 Speaker 1: that time was really just focused on marriage equality. So 198 00:11:57,880 --> 00:11:59,959 Speaker 1: you want to talk about gender as we're trying to 199 00:12:00,600 --> 00:12:03,920 Speaker 1: at that time assimilate, to be accepted, to then be 200 00:12:04,000 --> 00:12:06,960 Speaker 1: able to pass. So no, I think that there has 201 00:12:07,040 --> 00:12:09,600 Speaker 1: been there is there. We have let go of the 202 00:12:09,679 --> 00:12:13,079 Speaker 1: boxes in that way over the past very short time 203 00:12:13,280 --> 00:12:17,640 Speaker 1: of ten fifteen years to have these conversations that are 204 00:12:17,720 --> 00:12:23,680 Speaker 1: part of national discourse as opposed to just community based. Yeah. 205 00:12:23,720 --> 00:12:26,280 Speaker 1: And I think one thing too, as you were talking, 206 00:12:26,320 --> 00:12:29,280 Speaker 1: I was thinking of I think something that sort of 207 00:12:29,800 --> 00:12:33,320 Speaker 1: that social uprising fed into and then at the same 208 00:12:33,320 --> 00:12:36,960 Speaker 1: time that legal validation fed into the social strata is 209 00:12:37,520 --> 00:12:42,880 Speaker 1: the Supreme Court decision to officially recognize same sex marriage 210 00:12:43,160 --> 00:12:46,320 Speaker 1: and the validity of it as marriage, not unions or whatever. 211 00:12:46,360 --> 00:12:49,240 Speaker 1: And I completely recognize that in the very long journey, 212 00:12:49,640 --> 00:12:53,120 Speaker 1: activists were fighting for civil unions as a strategic move. 213 00:12:53,320 --> 00:12:54,920 Speaker 1: I know a lot of people who were in civil 214 00:12:55,000 --> 00:12:58,160 Speaker 1: unions who call themselves married because to them they were, 215 00:12:58,480 --> 00:13:00,000 Speaker 1: and that was the way that they could get it 216 00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:03,280 Speaker 1: legally recognized. And it's great for me for a young person, 217 00:13:03,400 --> 00:13:05,679 Speaker 1: like what was that twenty thirteen? So I was like 218 00:13:05,800 --> 00:13:08,440 Speaker 1: twenty twenty one when that was passed, and that was 219 00:13:10,440 --> 00:13:12,920 Speaker 1: twenty fifteen. I was okay, a little later than I thought, 220 00:13:12,920 --> 00:13:15,800 Speaker 1: but still that was there was a lot of agitation, 221 00:13:15,840 --> 00:13:19,839 Speaker 1: and I think the agitation got louder when younger people 222 00:13:19,880 --> 00:13:23,800 Speaker 1: started to become voting age and the Obama administration getting 223 00:13:24,120 --> 00:13:27,800 Speaker 1: voted in was very catalyzing for both young people who 224 00:13:27,880 --> 00:13:31,480 Speaker 1: voted for him and people who didn't who saw that that. 225 00:13:33,200 --> 00:13:35,360 Speaker 1: I hate to call it this, but like all all 226 00:13:35,520 --> 00:13:38,000 Speaker 1: good elections are run on like marketing campaigns, right and 227 00:13:38,080 --> 00:13:40,520 Speaker 1: like with the benefit of hindsight, like Hope and Change 228 00:13:40,559 --> 00:13:41,800 Speaker 1: was kind of it was a little bit more of 229 00:13:41,800 --> 00:13:45,079 Speaker 1: a marketing campaign than it was promised, but we buy 230 00:13:45,120 --> 00:13:49,640 Speaker 1: into it. Right, he won, So there was like this 231 00:13:49,720 --> 00:13:52,520 Speaker 1: optimism even if people who maybe didn't get a chance 232 00:13:52,559 --> 00:13:54,520 Speaker 1: to vote for him, that like there was hope and 233 00:13:54,520 --> 00:13:57,559 Speaker 1: there was hope for change. And even when President Obama 234 00:13:57,679 --> 00:14:01,280 Speaker 1: was saying, I don't think we can do gay marriage. 235 00:14:01,320 --> 00:14:03,880 Speaker 1: I don't think we can legalize I don't believe in 236 00:14:04,080 --> 00:14:07,040 Speaker 1: even he was saying at the beginning, and then of 237 00:14:07,080 --> 00:14:11,880 Speaker 1: all people, Joe Biden oop seed that he was turning around, 238 00:14:11,880 --> 00:14:14,320 Speaker 1: which will never know. Maybe we will find out one day, 239 00:14:14,360 --> 00:14:16,280 Speaker 1: but like we'll never know whether that was a strategic 240 00:14:16,360 --> 00:14:18,880 Speaker 1: move to him in that direction, right, or it was 241 00:14:18,960 --> 00:14:22,400 Speaker 1: really just like a you know, uncle Joe oopsie. But 242 00:14:22,520 --> 00:14:27,360 Speaker 1: either way, that was astronomical, both the administration pushing for it, 243 00:14:27,480 --> 00:14:30,160 Speaker 1: that itself was a big social step, but then it 244 00:14:30,240 --> 00:14:33,720 Speaker 1: being validated by the Supreme Court. I think that opened 245 00:14:33,720 --> 00:14:36,720 Speaker 1: all kinds of doors that now we're seeing unfortunately awful 246 00:14:36,760 --> 00:14:39,840 Speaker 1: pushback against Hey, I'm David plots a slice political gab fest. 247 00:14:40,320 --> 00:14:44,400 Speaker 1: As another election season accelerates, it can be tricky to 248 00:14:44,480 --> 00:14:47,440 Speaker 1: sort through all the noise and the news each week 249 00:14:47,440 --> 00:14:50,520 Speaker 1: on the Gabfest, John Dickerson, Emily Bathlon and I decipher 250 00:14:50,560 --> 00:14:53,040 Speaker 1: the headlines, break down the races, and tell you what 251 00:14:53,120 --> 00:14:57,600 Speaker 1: issues really matter. We do not always agree, We definitely 252 00:14:57,640 --> 00:15:01,160 Speaker 1: do not always agree, but we always silver thoughtful debate 253 00:15:01,240 --> 00:15:03,960 Speaker 1: and we always have a good time. 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So that's 270 00:16:08,960 --> 00:16:11,080 Speaker 1: and I'm so glad that you made that correlation because 271 00:16:11,120 --> 00:16:13,880 Speaker 1: that's actually you know, I have been thinking about for 272 00:16:13,920 --> 00:16:17,280 Speaker 1: the last couple of for the last couple of weeks really, 273 00:16:17,640 --> 00:16:20,200 Speaker 1: as we're in Pride Month and talking to a lot 274 00:16:20,240 --> 00:16:23,680 Speaker 1: of different folks, is that you know, you sent me 275 00:16:23,720 --> 00:16:29,520 Speaker 1: a message yesterday that was personally heartbreaking, UM, with regard 276 00:16:29,560 --> 00:16:33,640 Speaker 1: to Smithtown, a town in Long Island in Suffolk County, 277 00:16:34,000 --> 00:16:38,920 Speaker 1: that the city council or whatever the township council has 278 00:16:38,960 --> 00:16:44,160 Speaker 1: decided to board, has decided to ban pretty much any 279 00:16:44,200 --> 00:16:49,400 Speaker 1: display of pride, any books, any uh, you know, decorations 280 00:16:49,480 --> 00:16:53,120 Speaker 1: or anything in all of their libraries. UM. And I 281 00:16:53,160 --> 00:16:58,320 Speaker 1: think about, you know, how we have seen the the 282 00:16:58,600 --> 00:17:03,520 Speaker 1: pushback again, the idea of hope and change, the idea 283 00:17:03,560 --> 00:17:06,560 Speaker 1: that we could actually have a black president, the idea 284 00:17:06,800 --> 00:17:11,959 Speaker 1: that you know, there could be queer people in cabinet positions, 285 00:17:12,359 --> 00:17:15,040 Speaker 1: right whether or not we love those people, and it 286 00:17:15,080 --> 00:17:17,520 Speaker 1: doesn't matter. It's the fact that you have a person 287 00:17:17,600 --> 00:17:21,600 Speaker 1: that is trans, that is out trans. As a part 288 00:17:21,600 --> 00:17:24,879 Speaker 1: of the Abiden administration, you had people that were you know, 289 00:17:25,000 --> 00:17:29,520 Speaker 1: out and queer. In the Obama administration, you have a 290 00:17:29,560 --> 00:17:33,919 Speaker 1: Secretary of Transportation that is a married gay man. But 291 00:17:34,080 --> 00:17:37,920 Speaker 1: now we see all of these targets, all of this violence, 292 00:17:38,280 --> 00:17:42,600 Speaker 1: and I wonder, Andrew, what do you think they're like, 293 00:17:42,720 --> 00:17:46,520 Speaker 1: what are you hearing? The response to this is going 294 00:17:46,560 --> 00:17:51,000 Speaker 1: to be because we're being jammed back into the closet, 295 00:17:51,040 --> 00:17:55,240 Speaker 1: We're being pushed into places that you know, you know, again, 296 00:17:55,480 --> 00:17:58,560 Speaker 1: I've been working in politics for a long time. I've 297 00:17:58,560 --> 00:18:01,520 Speaker 1: only been a part of the ups I have never 298 00:18:01,720 --> 00:18:05,280 Speaker 1: been a part of you know, of the regression. And 299 00:18:05,320 --> 00:18:07,640 Speaker 1: so what are you hearing and what are you feeling 300 00:18:07,720 --> 00:18:13,960 Speaker 1: now about the direction that that this country is headed in. Yeah, 301 00:18:14,000 --> 00:18:16,560 Speaker 1: I'm kind of in the same boat where you say, 302 00:18:16,680 --> 00:18:18,720 Speaker 1: I've only been part of the upswing. And I think 303 00:18:18,760 --> 00:18:22,040 Speaker 1: the upswing part of it is important because you know, 304 00:18:22,119 --> 00:18:26,000 Speaker 1: being born I was born basically when Clinton was elected, 305 00:18:26,760 --> 00:18:30,879 Speaker 1: like one month between my birth and Clinton's election. So 306 00:18:31,240 --> 00:18:34,399 Speaker 1: there was you know, the nineties where it's sort of 307 00:18:34,480 --> 00:18:38,199 Speaker 1: I feel like culturally it was essentially a softened continuation 308 00:18:38,240 --> 00:18:40,119 Speaker 1: of the Reagan era. I remember a lot of just 309 00:18:40,280 --> 00:18:44,600 Speaker 1: dominant cultural conservativism at the time. There was don't ask, 310 00:18:44,680 --> 00:18:46,720 Speaker 1: don't tell, which I was too young to recognize, but 311 00:18:46,760 --> 00:18:48,919 Speaker 1: I feel like that was probably the prevailing attitude at 312 00:18:48,920 --> 00:18:51,560 Speaker 1: the time. I have an uncle who was gay, and 313 00:18:51,880 --> 00:18:53,440 Speaker 1: he could certainly speak more of this. I don't want 314 00:18:53,440 --> 00:18:54,720 Speaker 1: to speak for him, but when I was a kid, 315 00:18:54,880 --> 00:18:57,000 Speaker 1: I wasn't allowed to know that he was gay. My 316 00:18:57,080 --> 00:19:00,639 Speaker 1: uncle Adam was his roommate. They were friends whatever they were, 317 00:19:00,920 --> 00:19:03,080 Speaker 1: they weren't a couple, and me, as a child, I 318 00:19:03,200 --> 00:19:06,480 Speaker 1: was asking like, are they married? Are their boyfriends? Because 319 00:19:06,480 --> 00:19:09,520 Speaker 1: that didn't matter to me. But my religious family, in 320 00:19:09,560 --> 00:19:13,280 Speaker 1: my religious suburban family, was maintaining the lie to a 321 00:19:13,440 --> 00:19:16,040 Speaker 1: child who was making it evident that he didn't care, 322 00:19:16,160 --> 00:19:19,720 Speaker 1: that he wasn't passing judgment, but that lie was being maintained. 323 00:19:19,760 --> 00:19:23,040 Speaker 1: And then we entered the Bush years, and I, you know, 324 00:19:24,320 --> 00:19:27,080 Speaker 1: I want to talk about cultural conservatism. We were both 325 00:19:27,119 --> 00:19:29,720 Speaker 1: there moving on. So then you get the Obama years, 326 00:19:29,760 --> 00:19:32,800 Speaker 1: and then Obama years were the rejection of that heightened 327 00:19:32,840 --> 00:19:35,760 Speaker 1: cultural conservativism, in my opinion, and then you get that 328 00:19:36,200 --> 00:19:40,359 Speaker 1: real upswing, that big upswing where people can be out 329 00:19:40,400 --> 00:19:43,239 Speaker 1: and proud and validated by their government and recognized by 330 00:19:43,240 --> 00:19:46,600 Speaker 1: their government and start to be recognized by society at large. 331 00:19:47,320 --> 00:19:52,040 Speaker 1: All that to say, with this changing tide, I think 332 00:19:52,080 --> 00:19:54,760 Speaker 1: about people my age for sure, because we're not going 333 00:19:54,800 --> 00:19:56,080 Speaker 1: to be shoved back in the closet. I don't think. 334 00:19:56,080 --> 00:19:57,600 Speaker 1: I don't think most people my age are going to 335 00:19:57,640 --> 00:20:00,240 Speaker 1: take to being shoved back in the closet. But I 336 00:20:00,240 --> 00:20:02,400 Speaker 1: think about younger people who just grow up in this 337 00:20:02,520 --> 00:20:08,520 Speaker 1: is wider age of acceptance and just like the high 338 00:20:08,560 --> 00:20:10,680 Speaker 1: school experience. From what I understand, I worked as a 339 00:20:10,720 --> 00:20:13,800 Speaker 1: substitute about five years ago and there was a boy 340 00:20:13,840 --> 00:20:16,280 Speaker 1: putting on his makeup in the detention room. So this 341 00:20:16,400 --> 00:20:18,960 Speaker 1: is like the hard kids, and he's over putting on 342 00:20:19,000 --> 00:20:22,080 Speaker 1: his makeup and like no one's saying anything, and then 343 00:20:22,200 --> 00:20:25,320 Speaker 1: the sub like asks about or the eight whoever they 344 00:20:25,320 --> 00:20:28,040 Speaker 1: asked him about, like what kind of makeup he was using, 345 00:20:28,080 --> 00:20:29,560 Speaker 1: And he was in front of all these other like 346 00:20:30,040 --> 00:20:32,840 Speaker 1: tough guys who were in detention for doing whatever tough 347 00:20:32,880 --> 00:20:35,480 Speaker 1: shit they were doing, and he's like, oh, I'm you know, 348 00:20:35,640 --> 00:20:39,640 Speaker 1: seeing my like beauty later or whatever, you know, not boyfriend, 349 00:20:39,640 --> 00:20:42,760 Speaker 1: but like the guy he was talking to and like no, 350 00:20:43,760 --> 00:20:46,000 Speaker 1: not even no slurs, which is what would have happened 351 00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:48,760 Speaker 1: when I was in high school and you know, and 352 00:20:48,840 --> 00:20:51,040 Speaker 1: sometimes slurs were said and the teacher wasn't like, hey, 353 00:20:51,160 --> 00:20:54,800 Speaker 1: don't say that. They were just said yep. So the 354 00:20:54,880 --> 00:20:57,720 Speaker 1: generation younger is sure as shit not going to be 355 00:20:57,720 --> 00:21:00,359 Speaker 1: pushed back in the closet. They you can't drag them 356 00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:05,040 Speaker 1: kicking and screaming. So they're you talk about this all 357 00:21:05,080 --> 00:21:08,080 Speaker 1: the time. There's going to be a cultural war, and 358 00:21:08,160 --> 00:21:11,360 Speaker 1: I don't think it's going to be passive. I think 359 00:21:11,359 --> 00:21:14,080 Speaker 1: if it gets to a point where you know, yeah, 360 00:21:14,119 --> 00:21:18,199 Speaker 1: I just I think that that is my that's the 361 00:21:18,320 --> 00:21:21,359 Speaker 1: place of worry that I find myself right now, is 362 00:21:21,480 --> 00:21:23,239 Speaker 1: that I don't think a lot of young people are 363 00:21:23,280 --> 00:21:25,240 Speaker 1: so worried. And I'm going to say that too. I 364 00:21:25,240 --> 00:21:28,399 Speaker 1: think they're more ready than they are worried. What do 365 00:21:28,400 --> 00:21:34,680 Speaker 1: you think that they're ready for? Um? I think because 366 00:21:34,720 --> 00:21:37,119 Speaker 1: I know what the right is ready for? Right, I 367 00:21:37,320 --> 00:21:39,879 Speaker 1: know what they're a R fifteens and they're you know, 368 00:21:39,960 --> 00:21:43,720 Speaker 1: the the White Nationalist group, the thirty one members that 369 00:21:43,760 --> 00:21:48,199 Speaker 1: were just arrested in Idaho for you know, attempting a 370 00:21:48,320 --> 00:21:51,600 Speaker 1: riot at at a pride in Idaho. We know, you 371 00:21:51,640 --> 00:21:55,000 Speaker 1: know what happened with the Proud Boys rushing into a 372 00:21:56,200 --> 00:22:01,000 Speaker 1: drag que queen children's story time. So what do you 373 00:22:01,160 --> 00:22:04,680 Speaker 1: believe that they are ready for? Well, I will say 374 00:22:04,720 --> 00:22:08,399 Speaker 1: among just this is more general than queer communities and 375 00:22:08,440 --> 00:22:10,960 Speaker 1: discourse that I've observed. I would say, just generally, among 376 00:22:11,160 --> 00:22:16,280 Speaker 1: leftist millennials and younger people, there is less emphasis on 377 00:22:16,359 --> 00:22:22,760 Speaker 1: gun control and more thought being given to I mean today, right, 378 00:22:22,800 --> 00:22:26,639 Speaker 1: we're recording this today, the Supreme Court has made a 379 00:22:26,640 --> 00:22:31,160 Speaker 1: decision regarding I believe, open carry as well as concealed 380 00:22:31,240 --> 00:22:37,000 Speaker 1: carry of firearms. And so it's if everyone around you, 381 00:22:37,080 --> 00:22:38,600 Speaker 1: and I hate to say it, because this is a 382 00:22:38,680 --> 00:22:42,800 Speaker 1: move designed, yeah, at least partially to benefit gun manufacturers 383 00:22:42,840 --> 00:22:46,320 Speaker 1: and put more money into their pockets. At the same time, Logically, 384 00:22:46,640 --> 00:22:51,080 Speaker 1: if there's a very real possibility wherever you go in 385 00:22:51,119 --> 00:22:53,879 Speaker 1: the United States of America, and you are choosing to 386 00:22:53,920 --> 00:22:57,240 Speaker 1: stay in the United States of America, that anyone around 387 00:22:57,280 --> 00:23:00,639 Speaker 1: you at any time could have a firearm, what logically 388 00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:04,800 Speaker 1: are you meant to do to defend yourself? That's all. 389 00:23:05,080 --> 00:23:08,720 Speaker 1: And when it comes to younger people, I think they're, 390 00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:11,000 Speaker 1: like I said, there's a more of a rejection of 391 00:23:11,119 --> 00:23:15,600 Speaker 1: the what's becoming an increasingly liberal and center left idea 392 00:23:15,760 --> 00:23:19,359 Speaker 1: of gun control and more of this idea of you know, 393 00:23:20,160 --> 00:23:22,280 Speaker 1: feeling where the wins are going. And you're talking about 394 00:23:22,280 --> 00:23:24,400 Speaker 1: like being prepared for what conservatives are doing. I think 395 00:23:24,440 --> 00:23:27,560 Speaker 1: young people, and certainly young leftists are more prepared for 396 00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:31,359 Speaker 1: what the conservative political majority in this country, not the 397 00:23:31,359 --> 00:23:35,080 Speaker 1: cultural majority, not the actual majority, but unfortunately, the conservative 398 00:23:35,160 --> 00:23:39,320 Speaker 1: political majority, the people who maintain and use power in 399 00:23:39,359 --> 00:23:41,800 Speaker 1: this country, some of whom are in the Democratic Party 400 00:23:43,040 --> 00:23:45,600 Speaker 1: if they're in control right now, and the Democrats are 401 00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:47,760 Speaker 1: saying we don't want to have control, we have stained 402 00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:53,240 Speaker 1: from control. Yep. That I see older people and you know, 403 00:23:53,560 --> 00:23:55,720 Speaker 1: even people like five ten years older than me still 404 00:23:55,720 --> 00:23:57,680 Speaker 1: believing in the Democratic Party. I think there's a cut 405 00:23:57,680 --> 00:24:01,120 Speaker 1: off where that's no longer really there's faith not being 406 00:24:01,119 --> 00:24:03,440 Speaker 1: put into that and certainly voting. I mean, I'm old 407 00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:08,640 Speaker 1: and I'll tell you that right in the comments time 408 00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:10,480 Speaker 1: the show. It's like, I'm seventy years old and I'm 409 00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:14,080 Speaker 1: woke as now and it's you know, it's funny. I 410 00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:19,520 Speaker 1: you know, I was at the White House a week 411 00:24:19,560 --> 00:24:21,480 Speaker 1: a sorgo or two weeks ago. At this point, I 412 00:24:21,520 --> 00:24:25,280 Speaker 1: don't know. Time is a construct, uh, And you know 413 00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:28,560 Speaker 1: I'm seeing Nancy Pelosi and I'm seeing, you know, Senator 414 00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:31,159 Speaker 1: Baldwin and it was for you know, the Pride event, 415 00:24:31,280 --> 00:24:34,399 Speaker 1: and I'm just thinking to myself, like it took everything 416 00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:36,800 Speaker 1: in me, of course, like not to just do my 417 00:24:37,359 --> 00:24:40,679 Speaker 1: you know, nice hello and you know, give Senator Baldwin 418 00:24:40,760 --> 00:24:43,359 Speaker 1: a hug and like all of those things. And I 419 00:24:43,359 --> 00:24:47,760 Speaker 1: am thinking to myself, do they not see like are 420 00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:51,320 Speaker 1: they part of the don't look up right? Like they 421 00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:55,960 Speaker 1: honestly believe that if they lose this cycle, that they 422 00:24:55,960 --> 00:24:59,800 Speaker 1: have an opportunity to come back stronger next time. Like 423 00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:03,040 Speaker 1: they believe it. Yes, I just I hear it. I 424 00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:05,880 Speaker 1: hear it in the way that they're like, we just 425 00:25:05,960 --> 00:25:08,480 Speaker 1: need to keep on fighting and you know, and blah 426 00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:10,600 Speaker 1: blah blah blah blah, and we just need more people 427 00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:14,600 Speaker 1: to vote. And it's the same recycled shit that I've 428 00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:19,400 Speaker 1: heard for well over a decade plus. And I'm just like, 429 00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:22,600 Speaker 1: do you not see what these people are doing? Did you? 430 00:25:22,840 --> 00:25:26,359 Speaker 1: Are you not paying attention like at all? Like there's 431 00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:29,680 Speaker 1: no sense of urgency. There's this belief that they're going 432 00:25:29,720 --> 00:25:32,560 Speaker 1: to get another chance. And I think that young people, 433 00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:36,160 Speaker 1: to your point, are just like so we actually are 434 00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:39,919 Speaker 1: aware right of what these people are doing. They're telling 435 00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:43,479 Speaker 1: us out loud, like we're going to have to protect ourselves. 436 00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:45,959 Speaker 1: I mean, the other thing that the Supreme Court gutted 437 00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:50,320 Speaker 1: evidently was your access to miranda rights, right, and the 438 00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:52,880 Speaker 1: fact that you're not going to be able to like, 439 00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:56,440 Speaker 1: if the cops don't issue you your Miranda rights, well, 440 00:25:56,480 --> 00:25:58,800 Speaker 1: you're just fucked right. You're not going to be able 441 00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:01,080 Speaker 1: to sue them. You're going to be able to have 442 00:26:01,119 --> 00:26:04,560 Speaker 1: any recourse in action, right, They're just going to be 443 00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:07,199 Speaker 1: able to coerce you, beat you out, just do the 444 00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:10,359 Speaker 1: shit that they they've always been doing, essentially, but you're 445 00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:14,960 Speaker 1: not going to have the even the perception of legal 446 00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:19,240 Speaker 1: recourse to take right. So I'm like, you're setting up 447 00:26:19,280 --> 00:26:22,320 Speaker 1: a situation that is a tinderbox. And I don't think 448 00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:26,280 Speaker 1: the democratic establishment, I know, the democratic establishment outside of 449 00:26:26,320 --> 00:26:31,439 Speaker 1: like the Corey Bushes, the Eric Swalwell's, the AOC's, you know, 450 00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:34,800 Speaker 1: outside of those folks who are like, do you all 451 00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:37,840 Speaker 1: see what the fuck is going on here? I don't 452 00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:42,359 Speaker 1: think they get it. Yeah, And to start talking about 453 00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:46,920 Speaker 1: politics and power building and coalition building, I think unfortunately 454 00:26:47,520 --> 00:26:51,000 Speaker 1: the left wing in this country wasn't thinking about and 455 00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:55,080 Speaker 1: focusing on power building both within the Democratic Party and 456 00:26:55,119 --> 00:26:57,680 Speaker 1: without the Democratic Party until it was too late, Because 457 00:26:57,720 --> 00:27:01,560 Speaker 1: I think you mentioned some names like Alexandria Costio Cortez Bush, 458 00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:07,399 Speaker 1: and those are new term YEP members of the House. 459 00:27:08,520 --> 00:27:13,400 Speaker 1: The this kind of building needed to be happening twenty 460 00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:16,879 Speaker 1: years ago, thirty years ago after Jimmy Carter lost to 461 00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:20,720 Speaker 1: Ronald Reagan. Um, it's it's easy to wag my finger 462 00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:22,320 Speaker 1: as a young person, so I don't want to do 463 00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:25,680 Speaker 1: that too much. But I would even say even if 464 00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:30,680 Speaker 1: you wouldn't go back that far to Reagan, right, this 465 00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:33,880 Speaker 1: should have been happening in two thousand after the Supreme 466 00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:37,520 Speaker 1: Court decided the presidential election, and not the people of 467 00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:40,240 Speaker 1: this country. So that I'm going to say to the listeners, 468 00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:42,520 Speaker 1: I didn't prep with my favorite soapbox. I didn't tell 469 00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:45,359 Speaker 1: Danielle to bring up I'm like, anyone who's listened for 470 00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:48,800 Speaker 1: a long time, they know my favorite. Yeah, I'm just like, 471 00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:52,520 Speaker 1: if you want to talk about like that. A bigger 472 00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:56,240 Speaker 1: wake up call to me was twenty two years ago. 473 00:27:57,400 --> 00:28:00,000 Speaker 1: I think people were really placated by the Clinton years, 474 00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:02,479 Speaker 1: by the Obama years too. When I think about it, 475 00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:05,000 Speaker 1: and it's like, you know, I don't want to go 476 00:28:05,240 --> 00:28:09,200 Speaker 1: full conspiratorial and be like these presidents were plants designed to, 477 00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:14,080 Speaker 1: you know, make the masses docile and complacent, because I 478 00:28:14,119 --> 00:28:16,719 Speaker 1: don't think that's the reality. But I think an unintended 479 00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:20,000 Speaker 1: effect of the third way strategy that brought Bill Clinton 480 00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:24,960 Speaker 1: into power was then this idea of yeah, oh my god, 481 00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:27,160 Speaker 1: the fact that history almost made me forget his name. 482 00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:29,959 Speaker 1: Al Gore lost, and al Gore lost in a fully 483 00:28:30,040 --> 00:28:35,000 Speaker 1: illegitimate way, and looking historically, Democrats just kind of said, oh, well, 484 00:28:35,040 --> 00:28:37,000 Speaker 1: we'll get them next time and didn't even fight it. 485 00:28:37,440 --> 00:28:39,880 Speaker 1: And then on the ground, it's like there was leftist movements. 486 00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:42,040 Speaker 1: I know, there was the Battle of Seattle, so like, leftists, 487 00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:45,080 Speaker 1: we're doing something, but they just they weren't interested in 488 00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:48,200 Speaker 1: building I hate to separate like leftists from Democrats in 489 00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:50,840 Speaker 1: this way because I'm sure they're just crossover. But like 490 00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:54,800 Speaker 1: when you think about the grassroots leftist versus the establishment Democrats, 491 00:28:54,920 --> 00:28:57,880 Speaker 1: the grassroots leftists were not thinking about building political power 492 00:28:57,960 --> 00:28:59,760 Speaker 1: in a way that people were really awakened by and 493 00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:04,040 Speaker 1: sixteen by the election of Donald Trump, the additionally illegitimate 494 00:29:04,040 --> 00:29:06,400 Speaker 1: election of Donald Trump, but it took to your point, 495 00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:09,920 Speaker 1: it took that long sixteen years between a legitimate elections. Three, 496 00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:13,120 Speaker 1: but it'll go. Maybe we should stop this from happening, right, 497 00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:18,040 Speaker 1: But even still, now that we've experienced two thousand, experienced 498 00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:22,520 Speaker 1: two thousand and sixteen, where in twenty twenty two headed 499 00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:25,800 Speaker 1: into mid terms twenty twenty four, what do you see 500 00:29:25,800 --> 00:29:29,280 Speaker 1: any guardrails that were put in place to ensure that 501 00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:32,600 Speaker 1: the twenty twenty four presidential election one isn't going to 502 00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:35,240 Speaker 1: be corrupt and then two that that president isn't going 503 00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:37,280 Speaker 1: to be the last president that we have in these 504 00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:44,120 Speaker 1: United States as an authoritarian because absent indictments, absent accountability, 505 00:29:44,520 --> 00:29:46,920 Speaker 1: all we have done as a nation is set up 506 00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:50,560 Speaker 1: our demise. And I think that complacency is a great word, 507 00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:54,480 Speaker 1: because I too was complacent during the Obama years. I 508 00:29:54,520 --> 00:29:58,480 Speaker 1: too believe that this was the beginning of that arc 509 00:29:58,720 --> 00:30:01,400 Speaker 1: bending itself towards justice, and that we were going to 510 00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:04,080 Speaker 1: be on the bend side, right and that everything was 511 00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:07,480 Speaker 1: just going to be about expansion from here. We're not 512 00:30:07,560 --> 00:30:10,440 Speaker 1: even holding onto what the fuck was one fifty years ago. 513 00:30:11,080 --> 00:30:15,600 Speaker 1: So it's I think that, you know, I guess last 514 00:30:15,680 --> 00:30:19,320 Speaker 1: question for you, Andrew is what do you foresee? And 515 00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:22,640 Speaker 1: I don't like to future cast, but I really want 516 00:30:22,640 --> 00:30:27,000 Speaker 1: to know what do you foresee happening in the next 517 00:30:27,040 --> 00:30:30,360 Speaker 1: couple of years in America as a as a as 518 00:30:30,400 --> 00:30:33,520 Speaker 1: a queer person living in this country. And I don't 519 00:30:33,520 --> 00:30:35,000 Speaker 1: know if you what your plans are, if you have 520 00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:38,080 Speaker 1: plans to stay, your plans not to, but what do 521 00:30:38,160 --> 00:30:44,520 Speaker 1: you foresee happening right now? I would love to stay. 522 00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:48,520 Speaker 1: I'm sort of I mean not to air my laundry 523 00:30:48,560 --> 00:30:50,800 Speaker 1: too publicly, but it's a big state. I've been aiming 524 00:30:50,840 --> 00:30:54,080 Speaker 1: moving to California, and now I'm looking at the election 525 00:30:54,120 --> 00:30:56,160 Speaker 1: of Rick Caruso and being like, go Karen Bass, go 526 00:30:56,240 --> 00:30:58,320 Speaker 1: Karen bask you should try to have her on the show. 527 00:30:58,600 --> 00:31:03,880 Speaker 1: We should again. But you know, beyond, it's like when 528 00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:05,520 Speaker 1: I think about things, I think about that that's like 529 00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:07,959 Speaker 1: a micro thing, right, But it's like, will this country 530 00:31:08,120 --> 00:31:10,360 Speaker 1: keep just like sliding further and further to the right. 531 00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:13,600 Speaker 1: And even these narrow electoral efforts to get leftists into office, 532 00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:15,880 Speaker 1: are they going to continue to be opposed by people 533 00:31:15,880 --> 00:31:17,760 Speaker 1: who favor the status quo. I hate to go back, 534 00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:20,600 Speaker 1: but I ultimately I never said I never fully responded 535 00:31:20,640 --> 00:31:23,280 Speaker 1: to you talking about you know, don't look up and democrats. 536 00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:25,920 Speaker 1: I don't think democrats live in the real world. I 537 00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:30,920 Speaker 1: think the tools that younger people have, you know, the 538 00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:33,280 Speaker 1: younger you go, the more people have grown up with technology, 539 00:31:33,320 --> 00:31:36,000 Speaker 1: and the more people know how to those younger people 540 00:31:36,120 --> 00:31:38,840 Speaker 1: know how to use technology more deptly, and not only 541 00:31:38,840 --> 00:31:42,120 Speaker 1: how to use that technology, but how to avoid disinformation. 542 00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:45,040 Speaker 1: We talked about Tumbler, and there's TikTok now as well. 543 00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:47,160 Speaker 1: It's not like disinformation isn't out there and young people 544 00:31:47,160 --> 00:31:49,360 Speaker 1: don't buy into it, but it's not so much on 545 00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:52,320 Speaker 1: the scale of like here is the dumbest clickbait Facebook 546 00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:54,680 Speaker 1: article in the world that your sixty five year old 547 00:31:54,720 --> 00:31:56,720 Speaker 1: parent is going to fall forward because they just don't 548 00:31:56,840 --> 00:31:59,560 Speaker 1: have the tools, whether in their mind or just like 549 00:31:59,680 --> 00:32:03,080 Speaker 1: you know, practically in their Internet browsing to filter what 550 00:32:03,240 --> 00:32:05,080 Speaker 1: is true and what is not because they grew up 551 00:32:05,080 --> 00:32:07,640 Speaker 1: in a time where if information was being given to 552 00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:10,000 Speaker 1: you by what you perceive as a reputable source yea, 553 00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:13,480 Speaker 1: then you will receive it. And to connect that to democrats, 554 00:32:13,480 --> 00:32:17,040 Speaker 1: I don't think democrats use like Democrats aren't tooled into 555 00:32:17,080 --> 00:32:19,960 Speaker 1: their constituency in a large sense is the sense I get. 556 00:32:20,160 --> 00:32:24,280 Speaker 1: And so when there are people on the ground yelling fire, 557 00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:29,160 Speaker 1: yelling wolf, and there's actually like Democrats, I feel are 558 00:32:29,160 --> 00:32:31,360 Speaker 1: the ones to bring that analogy, and Democrats are actually 559 00:32:31,360 --> 00:32:33,080 Speaker 1: the ones who feel I feel cry wolf. I feel 560 00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:34,320 Speaker 1: like a lot of people have grown up with like 561 00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:36,360 Speaker 1: this is the most important election ever. This time, we've 562 00:32:36,360 --> 00:32:38,400 Speaker 1: really got it. So if that's really what happens in 563 00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:41,480 Speaker 1: twenty twenty two, it's you've been saying that to us. 564 00:32:42,480 --> 00:32:46,360 Speaker 1: I don't know, at least since Obama's second election, probably beforehand. No, 565 00:32:46,400 --> 00:32:48,400 Speaker 1: they said it for Obamas because McCain was I thought 566 00:32:48,400 --> 00:32:50,120 Speaker 1: that was true. But it's like if every election is 567 00:32:50,160 --> 00:32:52,920 Speaker 1: the most important, that loses, But now we're the ones 568 00:32:53,040 --> 00:32:56,200 Speaker 1: saying no, Look there's wolves, there's fascist, there's white supremacist, 569 00:32:56,240 --> 00:32:58,320 Speaker 1: there's all these things, and Democrats are shaking their hands 570 00:32:58,320 --> 00:33:00,320 Speaker 1: with them, and they're going, my friend across the aisle, 571 00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:02,280 Speaker 1: you point us out all the time, and it's just like, 572 00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:06,240 Speaker 1: I think their class blinds them from what is going 573 00:33:06,280 --> 00:33:07,959 Speaker 1: on in the world, because in terms of class, they 574 00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:13,960 Speaker 1: are fully aligned with Republicans, and I worry about how 575 00:33:13,960 --> 00:33:18,000 Speaker 1: that will affect our younger crop in the long run, 576 00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:20,320 Speaker 1: but I want to be optimistic, and speaking of a 577 00:33:20,320 --> 00:33:22,320 Speaker 1: long run, neither of us know whether there actually will 578 00:33:22,360 --> 00:33:25,960 Speaker 1: be a long run. Will Ocasio Cortez actually even get 579 00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:28,840 Speaker 1: to be the age where even theoretically she could run 580 00:33:28,840 --> 00:33:30,880 Speaker 1: for president of the United States and there still be 581 00:33:31,120 --> 00:33:33,240 Speaker 1: a United States government. When I look at the next 582 00:33:33,240 --> 00:33:36,360 Speaker 1: few years, I'll say publicly that I spoke to you 583 00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:39,760 Speaker 1: and a recording engineer last summer, and I said that 584 00:33:39,800 --> 00:33:42,000 Speaker 1: the Democrats were not going to win these midterm elections. 585 00:33:42,040 --> 00:33:44,320 Speaker 1: That I think was in June twenty twenty one. I 586 00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:46,600 Speaker 1: think it's you know, now it's Dune twenty twenty two. 587 00:33:46,960 --> 00:33:49,120 Speaker 1: I think it is increasingly evident. And if you're saying 588 00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:51,920 Speaker 1: that's the mood on the hill, that means they've accepted lost, 589 00:33:51,960 --> 00:33:54,520 Speaker 1: they've accepted defeat, and they've decided they're not going to fight. 590 00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:57,480 Speaker 1: I'm I legitimately feel like I'm about to cry, because 591 00:33:57,520 --> 00:34:00,400 Speaker 1: it's like, in terms of government, we don't have course. 592 00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:03,680 Speaker 1: We don't we being the left wing, and we being 593 00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:07,560 Speaker 1: the people, do not have the recourse to fight. If 594 00:34:07,640 --> 00:34:10,360 Speaker 1: Republicans are saying we want to dismand if Republicans and 595 00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:13,200 Speaker 1: the conservative right are saying we want to dismantle everything, 596 00:34:13,200 --> 00:34:15,520 Speaker 1: and Democrats are saying we'll get them next time. You're 597 00:34:15,560 --> 00:34:17,839 Speaker 1: not You're You're absolutely right. I agree with you. There 598 00:34:17,960 --> 00:34:20,839 Speaker 1: is not going to be the next time. And I 599 00:34:20,880 --> 00:34:22,719 Speaker 1: can't read the tea leaves. I can't say what that 600 00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:25,600 Speaker 1: will look like. I do think it's not going to 601 00:34:25,640 --> 00:34:29,719 Speaker 1: be pretty. I sometimes think of Joe Biden as James Buchanan, 602 00:34:30,120 --> 00:34:35,000 Speaker 1: and what came after James Buchanan was very, very, very unpretty. 603 00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:39,359 Speaker 1: And I think the only one more crossover between both 604 00:34:39,440 --> 00:34:41,680 Speaker 1: is that after James Buchanan there will be a Republican, 605 00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:44,360 Speaker 1: but they will be two very different Republicans. And what 606 00:34:44,440 --> 00:34:48,800 Speaker 1: will that mean for America? Yeah, oh god, I wanted 607 00:34:48,840 --> 00:34:51,319 Speaker 1: to end on a high note, but that is not 608 00:34:51,360 --> 00:34:54,800 Speaker 1: going to be. That's not going to be today. I 609 00:34:54,840 --> 00:34:56,880 Speaker 1: don't think a lot is, certainly not people younger than me. 610 00:34:56,960 --> 00:34:58,759 Speaker 1: I don't think there's a lot of optimism for the 611 00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:01,520 Speaker 1: immediate future. I mean, we didn't even talk about the climate, 612 00:35:01,520 --> 00:35:03,719 Speaker 1: which also don't want to do anything about. So is 613 00:35:03,760 --> 00:35:05,880 Speaker 1: there going to be you know, how much of the 614 00:35:05,960 --> 00:35:09,120 Speaker 1: United States is that it's actually be war on So 615 00:35:09,239 --> 00:35:12,120 Speaker 1: it's like either we're going down We're going down with 616 00:35:12,160 --> 00:35:15,120 Speaker 1: the civil war, We're going down with climate change. We're 617 00:35:15,239 --> 00:35:21,160 Speaker 1: going down. I think that whatever is whatever comes after 618 00:35:21,840 --> 00:35:28,040 Speaker 1: the fall of everything um is going to be a 619 00:35:28,040 --> 00:35:31,560 Speaker 1: considerable dark period that I don't know if we I 620 00:35:31,600 --> 00:35:35,040 Speaker 1: don't know if there will be light that we will see, 621 00:35:35,400 --> 00:35:37,720 Speaker 1: right like I, you know, I think that we're talking 622 00:35:37,719 --> 00:35:41,720 Speaker 1: about generational loss, and I don't think that the majority 623 00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:46,560 Speaker 1: of America understands really what that means. Do you want 624 00:35:46,600 --> 00:35:50,160 Speaker 1: to end on a positive note? Coma one thing? There 625 00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:53,480 Speaker 1: is some optimism in my heart. If we fight for 626 00:35:53,600 --> 00:35:57,279 Speaker 1: a better future, a better future is possible. But we 627 00:35:57,400 --> 00:36:00,320 Speaker 1: have to fight. I said, had we started fighting thirty 628 00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:02,759 Speaker 1: fifty years ago, it would be an easier fight. But 629 00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:05,600 Speaker 1: if we start fighting now, we will have to fight 630 00:36:05,760 --> 00:36:08,160 Speaker 1: very hard. And we can fight for a better future 631 00:36:08,200 --> 00:36:11,040 Speaker 1: and we can fight back, but we have to fight. 632 00:36:11,239 --> 00:36:15,280 Speaker 1: And fighting doesn't just mean voting every two or four years. 633 00:36:16,520 --> 00:36:21,640 Speaker 1: We have to fight. It's true, Andrew. It is wonderful 634 00:36:21,680 --> 00:36:27,279 Speaker 1: to have you on this side of the microphone. Appreciate 635 00:36:27,400 --> 00:36:31,160 Speaker 1: you and your five years plus of work with me 636 00:36:31,320 --> 00:36:35,160 Speaker 1: and on this show. But honestly, great, great, great conversation, 637 00:36:35,480 --> 00:36:39,440 Speaker 1: and you know we'll have to continue it, but we 638 00:36:39,520 --> 00:36:46,759 Speaker 1: thank you for me will appreciate you. Hey there, I 639 00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:49,319 Speaker 1: want to tell you about another podcast I think you'll love. 640 00:36:49,440 --> 00:36:52,640 Speaker 1: The Brown Girl's Guide to Politics, hosted by a Shanty Goehler, 641 00:36:52,760 --> 00:36:56,200 Speaker 1: the president of Emerged BGG, is the one stop shop 642 00:36:56,239 --> 00:36:58,160 Speaker 1: for women of color who want to hear and talk 643 00:36:58,160 --> 00:37:01,239 Speaker 1: about the world of politics. Join Ashanti this season as 644 00:37:01,239 --> 00:37:03,760 Speaker 1: she talks to incredible women of color who are changing 645 00:37:03,800 --> 00:37:05,959 Speaker 1: the face of politics and tackling some of the most 646 00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:09,640 Speaker 1: important issues basing the United States, from reproductive justice to 647 00:37:09,719 --> 00:37:12,640 Speaker 1: voting rights, to climate change and more. Tune in every 648 00:37:12,680 --> 00:37:21,560 Speaker 1: Tuesday wherever you get your podcasts. Indisputable with Doctor Rashid 649 00:37:21,680 --> 00:37:24,280 Speaker 1: Ricci is one of the latest shows on the TYT 650 00:37:24,520 --> 00:37:27,960 Speaker 1: network and also the fastest growing news show in America. 651 00:37:28,320 --> 00:37:32,120 Speaker 1: On his show, Doctor Ricci plays no games regarding policy, 652 00:37:32,239 --> 00:37:35,360 Speaker 1: delivering a heavy dose of fact based truth and penetrating 653 00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:38,920 Speaker 1: analysis on all the top news stories focusing on racism, 654 00:37:39,000 --> 00:37:43,879 Speaker 1: criminal and social justice, politics, police brutality, Karens, and much more. 655 00:37:44,160 --> 00:37:49,280 Speaker 1: Listeners can also expect interviews with fascinating guests, political leaders, commentators, 656 00:37:49,320 --> 00:37:52,880 Speaker 1: and even fiery debates with conservatives on a wide range 657 00:37:52,880 --> 00:37:57,040 Speaker 1: of policy topics in the Bullpen. It is an indisputable 658 00:37:57,080 --> 00:38:00,480 Speaker 1: fact that you will love this show. Listen to Indisputable 659 00:38:00,520 --> 00:38:04,400 Speaker 1: with Doctor Rashad Richie on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever 660 00:38:04,480 --> 00:38:07,000 Speaker 1: you get your podcasts. If you like what you hear, 661 00:38:07,160 --> 00:38:13,879 Speaker 1: be sure to subscribe so you never miss a new episode. 662 00:38:20,520 --> 00:38:23,640 Speaker 1: That is it for me today, Dear friends on Woke 663 00:38:23,920 --> 00:38:27,239 Speaker 1: f As always, Power to the people and to all 664 00:38:27,480 --> 00:38:31,120 Speaker 1: the people power, get woke and stay woke as fuck.