Speaker 1: Welcome to another episode of Strictly Business, the podcast in
Speaker 1: which we speak with some of the smartest minds working
Speaker 1: in the media business today. I'm Andrew Wallenstein with Variety.
Speaker 1: We've got a two fur in today's episode, with two
Speaker 1: of the more interesting conversations that emerged from varieties Annual
Speaker 1: Entertainments of It at CES in Las Vegas earlier this month.
Speaker 1: There's a through line through these two interviews. It's they're
Speaker 1: both industry veterans who find themselves at new, high profile gigs. First,
Speaker 1: there's Jeremy Gorman, whom they have heard of from her
Speaker 1: days at Amazon or Snap. Now she's just months into
Speaker 1: her new job as President of Worldwide Advertising a Netflix,
Speaker 1: where she's leading the charge on the streaming services new
Speaker 1: ad supported tier. Then we'll check in with Malik Ducard,
Speaker 1: who's been at Pinterest for the past year as chief
Speaker 1: content Officer after distinguished stints at YouTube in Paramount. Stick
Speaker 1: around and we'll be right back. First with Jeremy Gorman.
Speaker 1: We're back with Jeremy Gorman. Full disclosure, you are a
Speaker 1: Variety alumnus. Am I mean technically this I'm I should
Speaker 1: recuse myself because this plight, but I will maintain objectivity.
Speaker 1: You have your Variety days were what like twenty years
Speaker 1: ago at this point, or to two thousand seven. I
Speaker 1: was there for the centennial, which is pretty remarkable for
Speaker 1: Variety that it's a hundred and seventeen year old brands. Anyway,
Speaker 1: you've gone on to some other things since, and the
Speaker 1: little companies like Amazon and Snap and I'm just curious
Speaker 1: to start. You know, a company like Netflix calls you up,
Speaker 1: they're not even in this business of advertising, and they
Speaker 1: say to you what they want to do. Are you
Speaker 1: like huh or oh, I see the opportunity here? You know,
Speaker 1: I think, like many people probably in this room, I
Speaker 1: was a Netflix fan to begin with, and then there
Speaker 1: was the announcement in April that that Netflix was getting
Speaker 1: into the advertising business, and my husband looked at me
Speaker 1: and said, you're going to do that job? And I
Speaker 1: was like, well, they have to call me first, and then,
Speaker 1: you know, then they did, and um I was I thought,
Speaker 1: what an amazing opportunity to reach this engaged audience with
Speaker 1: this extraordinary content in a place where marketers have never
Speaker 1: been able to reach them before. So it felt kind
Speaker 1: of like a no brainer. But it's it's just been
Speaker 1: a remarkable nine whole weeks, by the way, So it's
Speaker 1: been it's been really great. And I did say yes
Speaker 1: very quickly, and now my husband's very happy that he
Speaker 1: was right, all right, nostronomously married apparently, and so yes,
Speaker 1: as you mentioned the the ad based version of Netflix,
Speaker 1: you guys put out super fast with help some from Microsoft. Um,
Speaker 1: how would you characterize these nine weeks because obviously, when
Speaker 1: you move this fast, you're not necessarily loading up exactly
Speaker 1: everything you want to be doing. That's right, Yeah, I
Speaker 1: think that's part of what's been so interesting. Is there
Speaker 1: really kind of two choices when you make a decision
Speaker 1: of this magnitude. And I wasn't there when the decisions
Speaker 1: were made to do the ad supported tier, obviously, but
Speaker 1: you can either go very quickly and partner with somebody
Speaker 1: like Microsoft, who has been extraordinary and we're on the
Speaker 1: Zander stack, or take two years to do it perfectly.
Speaker 1: And so the nine weeks have been really exciting a
Speaker 1: lot of people, a lot of advertisers, marketers, analysts, everybody
Speaker 1: wants to hear more about what we're doing. I would
Speaker 1: say one of the things that's been interesting is we
Speaker 1: did launch with m v P. We joke a little
Speaker 1: bit and say we put the M in m v
Speaker 1: P because we did it so quickly for the minimum
Speaker 1: viable product, and we launched with fifteens and thirties, but
Speaker 1: is definitely not representative of our long term ambition. So
Speaker 1: it's been kind of it's both there's so much excitement
Speaker 1: but also people way for the innovation that will be forthcoming.
Speaker 1: Just you know, crawl, walk, run, really, so let's let's
Speaker 1: we we have an idea of what the crawl is,
Speaker 1: what is the what are you mentioned right now as
Speaker 1: you're restricted to fifteen and thirties, What are the next
Speaker 1: things that you're trying to bring onto the platform? I know, uh,
Speaker 1: I believe ted Surranda talked about there might be different tiers,
Speaker 1: not just one. What are some of the things that
Speaker 1: we could look for in three on the ad platform
Speaker 1: twenty seconds big innovation, not you know, we we did
Speaker 1: it in Spain already. Um, kind of sticking with the
Speaker 1: more standard AD formats in the short term, but then
Speaker 1: over the long term, I think really having the experience
Speaker 1: be more integrated into overall Netflix. Not necessarily from a
Speaker 1: product place my perspective, but what I mean by that is,
Speaker 1: I think we have so much tonnage in terms of
Speaker 1: hours time spent with the platform, binge behavior, et cetera,
Speaker 1: that it gives us a really unique opportunity to be
Speaker 1: a will to target really differently. UM. Examples of that
Speaker 1: would be not only by genre, which everybody can do,
Speaker 1: but I think different things, um in terms of dynamic
Speaker 1: insertion of ads near moments that are relevant to marketers. UM.
Speaker 1: I'm making this up as I as I talk here,
Speaker 1: but something like an advertiser that would want to be
Speaker 1: surrounded by uh, surrounding each gift giving moment no matter
Speaker 1: the content. We have the opportunity to do those kinds
Speaker 1: of things, uh, single show sponsorships, and then we are
Speaker 1: going to really change the world and allow people to
Speaker 1: target by age and gender. I hear that's a new
Speaker 1: innovation exactly, but that's new for Netflix to actually really
Speaker 1: just even the operation were even collecting that information is
Speaker 1: new for Netflix, and so getting to a place where
Speaker 1: we have scale so that we can targe target by
Speaker 1: age and gender. But I think the really creative things
Speaker 1: are content based. I mean I Netflix is going to
Speaker 1: be doing their earnings results in another week or two.
Speaker 1: This will be the first time they're talking about I
Speaker 1: assume they'll they'll share how things have progressed. There's been
Speaker 1: some data, third party data, not Netflix's own data, that
Speaker 1: have suggested that the initial uptake has been a little underwhelming.
Speaker 1: Uh are their concerns or is their patients or perhaps
Speaker 1: I'm mis characterizing it, and your data says you know,
Speaker 1: this new subscription is flying like hotcakes because we were
Speaker 1: reporting in a couple of weeks. I can't answer that directly,
Speaker 1: but I can tell you that we are. We're pleased
Speaker 1: with the growth that we're seeing in the tier, and
Speaker 1: I you would be able to tell if I was
Speaker 1: a concerned human. I wear it on my face. Yeah so,
Speaker 1: but yeah, good to know the future. We're not breaking
Speaker 1: it out, and given the timing with earnings, apologies, I
Speaker 1: can't be more more direct there. Okay, I mean I
Speaker 1: think the thing that people are going to be looking
Speaker 1: for analysts, investors is there is risk that too many
Speaker 1: subscribers who are already paying more than they might be
Speaker 1: paying on the ad supported plan could sort of downshift
Speaker 1: and you could essentially cannibalize that core audience. And that's
Speaker 1: where your subscribers are going to come from instead of
Speaker 1: new people coming on, because that's really the name of
Speaker 1: the game here. The growth of Netflix, I think has
Speaker 1: moderated somewhat after a rocket ride for many years. This
Speaker 1: will hopefully bring people in a new barrier, a lower barrier,
Speaker 1: I should say, So, are you seeing signs? Are are
Speaker 1: you I know you're not going to share data right now,
Speaker 1: but are there early indications that you are bringing in
Speaker 1: new people as well as maybe not as uh, you know,
Speaker 1: being such a cannibalizer. Yeah, it's it's really the whole
Speaker 1: goal of it is customer choice, So for people to
Speaker 1: be able to shift between plans and platforms essentially based
Speaker 1: on what they want to pay. And in this particular
Speaker 1: macro environment, I think you're going to see a reasonable
Speaker 1: amount of both people who want to consolidate their overall
Speaker 1: streaming bill inclusive of all of the other streaming services
Speaker 1: and say I want them all, but I want AD supported,
Speaker 1: or I want you know too, but no AD supported
Speaker 1: in these kinds of things. But historically with Netflix, people
Speaker 1: stay on the plan that they originally subscribe to. Is
Speaker 1: it conceivable that as you guys go out there with this,
Speaker 1: that we that essentially even people are paying less, you
Speaker 1: can monetize better because you're getting obviously the subscription fee
Speaker 1: that they pay plus the AD dollars that you reap
Speaker 1: from those eyeballs. Yeah, I think that that has been
Speaker 1: stated by read that our our expectation is for it
Speaker 1: to be at the very least revenue neutral. Okay, you
Speaker 1: mentioned Spain earlier. You guys are available now at seventy
Speaker 1: of the world of the ad twelve countries. Okay, and
Speaker 1: at this point, do you guys have a sense like
Speaker 1: three will we see that number grow? We are going
Speaker 1: to stay with the twelve. Well, we learn that it's
Speaker 1: the twelve large just ad markets and also places where
Speaker 1: Netflix has penetration enough to have certain different tiers of
Speaker 1: service versus one or two tiers of service. So we're
Speaker 1: gonna stick with that plan for now while we learn um.
Speaker 1: But long term, I think any any major AD market
Speaker 1: that can also support the multiple tiers will be things
Speaker 1: that will look at. But yeah, the twelve for now,
Speaker 1: and there are seven whole people on my team and
Speaker 1: so I wouldve is just fine for now. In front
Speaker 1: of this crowd, you may start getting resumes, so you know, uh,
Speaker 1: what about if you're great, I'm Jeremy and Netflix. Um,
Speaker 1: what about I From what I've heard, not one percent
Speaker 1: of the content is uh does have advertising in it?
Speaker 1: You guys still need to work out some licensing. Has
Speaker 1: that progressed? Yeah, that's progressing kind of as we speak
Speaker 1: day by day, renegotiating deals that we made a long
Speaker 1: time ago. But the vast majority of content that people
Speaker 1: watch gularly is available on the AD tier service. UM.
Speaker 1: And by that, I mean, you know, people tend to
Speaker 1: watch the same things that are is like geiste. Uh,
Speaker 1: Wednesday right now, for instance, has over a billion streaming hours.
Speaker 1: Has anybody seen Wednesday? It's so great? Uh? Okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: I guess mathematically speaking, if it's over a billion hours,
Speaker 1: then many of you have seen Wednesday. Um. And so yeah,
Speaker 1: all of those, the original content and the majority of
Speaker 1: things that people watch are available on add tier. And
Speaker 1: then we're just going to continue to negotiate and hopefully
Speaker 1: have everything available. But it's between eighty five and nine
Speaker 1: content is available on the AD tier depending on the country. UM.
Speaker 1: There's been some criticism that you guys came to market
Speaker 1: with a pretty high CPM. UM, are you pleased with
Speaker 1: where you have sort of set the bar at this point. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, I think, like anything, it's a marketplace we
Speaker 1: have we we didn't know what we didn't know. There
Speaker 1: weren't any subscribers on the ad supported tier when we started, obviously,
Speaker 1: so from a supply demand perspective, the premium CPMs are
Speaker 1: reflective of two things. One is that we just couldn't
Speaker 1: take that many advertisers. We certainly didn't want to disappoint anybody.
Speaker 1: But then secondarily, the premium content environment in which the
Speaker 1: ads run I think warrant a high CPM. But I
Speaker 1: think we're certainly humble enough to very much understand that
Speaker 1: we are top of market, and in addition to that
Speaker 1: that the market will more or less dictate to us
Speaker 1: what what are reasonable CPMs. And then in addition, with
Speaker 1: these innovations on top of the fifteen and thirties will
Speaker 1: warrant the high CPM over time, But right now, with
Speaker 1: fifteens and thirties and limited targeting, it's really, you know,
Speaker 1: just a byproduct of demand. There's a lot of demand.
Speaker 1: So who are could you characterize the kinds of advertisers
Speaker 1: that are in this first wave and perhaps what the
Speaker 1: second wave could look like? Sure? Yeah, my favorite part
Speaker 1: of this, and thank you for asking, UM, is that
Speaker 1: it's really across the board. So we're seeing CpG companies,
Speaker 1: luxury companies, automotive companies. I could go on and on, retail, etcetera.
Speaker 1: But we're seeing a broad swath and I think that's
Speaker 1: not only important to signify the demand that's coming into
Speaker 1: people wanting to reach this incremental audience that they haven't
Speaker 1: been able to reach before, but also really good for
Speaker 1: our member experience that you're not just like and another
Speaker 1: car and another car and another car. Um. It's it's
Speaker 1: very there's a wide variety of advertiser types and I
Speaker 1: think we'll continue to see that in various moments of
Speaker 1: when people need things. So at the outset, you know,
Speaker 1: right before holiday, very retail heavy, not dissimilar to what
Speaker 1: many of you experience. I'm sure right now you know,
Speaker 1: tax etcetera. So we're following a very normal pattern. But
Speaker 1: it is a broad swath of demand. There's also a
Speaker 1: broad swath of players in this Marketplaceself, Disney, plus everyone's
Speaker 1: doing the ad thing. Is this a rising tide lift
Speaker 1: all boats or is it? You know what? It's this
Speaker 1: is more Darwinian than that, and you know one player
Speaker 1: needs to take an early lead. I think it's a
Speaker 1: rising tide rises all boats situation for connected TV in general,
Speaker 1: for ad supported streaming services, for customer choice, each of
Speaker 1: the companies is really compelling another company to make extraordinary content.
Speaker 1: And while this isn't a specific add discussion or add
Speaker 1: point that I'm about to make, one of the things
Speaker 1: I think is most interesting is that five of our
Speaker 1: most popular shows of all time we're last year in
Speaker 1: two when competition had never been more fierce. And I
Speaker 1: think that is really a reflection of everybody making everybody better.
Speaker 1: And I think we can all agree that streaming content
Speaker 1: just continues to be exceptional. Um. And then as the
Speaker 1: linear market changes or flattens, we're giving advertisers and customers
Speaker 1: a place to go. We had I don't know if
Speaker 1: you were in the room at the time. Jeff Green
Speaker 1: from the trade desk was out here earlier. I tried
Speaker 1: to broker a deal, Oh thank you, in an auction
Speaker 1: based diamond ademic CPN format, which I learned in nursery school.
Speaker 1: Yeah didn't, didn't we all? Um? You know he's out
Speaker 1: here talking about Galileo, this first party data product for
Speaker 1: advertisers I mean, does does Netflix need something like that?
Speaker 1: The way I think the way he put it with
Speaker 1: something like the Netflix needs the open Internet more than
Speaker 1: the open Internet needs network. Maybe I have that wrong.
Speaker 1: You tell me, what does does Netflix need the Open Internet? UM?
Speaker 1: I think I don't know. That's a hard question to answer.
Speaker 1: But you did scare me when you said he was
Speaker 1: talking about Galileo. I thought I was going to have
Speaker 1: to talk about philosophers or no. No, no, no, that's
Speaker 1: just a product. I think the open Internet needs Netflix,
Speaker 1: and Netflix needs the open Internet. Okay, safe answer? UM,
Speaker 1: thank you. In our remaining thirty seconds, what in twenty
Speaker 1: three you know, if we're back on this stage, uh,
Speaker 1: twelve months from now, what growth story do you hope
Speaker 1: to be sort of telling? You know? Do you have
Speaker 1: a projection of where you see how much growth you're
Speaker 1: gonna get for this new ad tire? What I hope
Speaker 1: to see is that we have enough subscribers on the
Speaker 1: add here that advertisers are getting what they want in
Speaker 1: targeted environments and genre based targeting. UM. I think that
Speaker 1: we have all of the opportunity in the world. There
Speaker 1: are so many people who love Netflix. UM that giving
Speaker 1: different price points to get more people on the service
Speaker 1: is a win for everybody, and I hope that there
Speaker 1: are a lot of customers in the audience next year
Speaker 1: who are on the basic with ADS plan. I will
Speaker 1: hold you to that next year. At this time next year,
Speaker 1: this time I will be here. Thank you, Jeremy, thank you.
Speaker 1: We'll be back in just a minute, and we're back
Speaker 1: with Malik du Karg. I'm really happy to have our
Speaker 1: next guest with us. I've known Malik a long time.
Speaker 1: I've known you going back to your Paramount days, your
Speaker 1: YouTube ways, always a content guy, but at the intersection
Speaker 1: of content in tech. And then of course I heard
Speaker 1: about a year ago you going over to Pinterest and
Speaker 1: I was like, okay, that's interest ding, which I don't
Speaker 1: think of Pinterest as video programming and such. So what
Speaker 1: was the mandate when you got brought in as the
Speaker 1: chief content officer? Um so, so happy to be here.
Speaker 1: First of all, what's up Andy? Hi? Everyone? Um So,
Speaker 1: I've been at Pinterest now for a little bit over
Speaker 1: a year, and the mandate is to to really work
Speaker 1: with uh incredible teams, partners, creators, publishers, brands, curators to
Speaker 1: really build healthy and thriving content ecosystem UM with video
Speaker 1: very much UM as a core focus of the platform.
Speaker 1: So we've been building out tools for for creators, for example,
Speaker 1: and for publishers to really upload and share their video.
Speaker 1: Video has been been growing really rapidly on the platform UM,
Speaker 1: and a big part of what I do is to
Speaker 1: to help fan the flames and UM encourage that ecosystem
Speaker 1: to to continue to grow. So let's talk about some
Speaker 1: flames for some publishers and creators. Would have been some
Speaker 1: top deals that you've brought in in this first year
Speaker 1: UM so. One one of the deals, and I think
Speaker 1: it's a good example of a model for for deals
Speaker 1: that we have continued to do, is our relationship with
Speaker 1: Taste Made. So Taste Made is a publisher UM who
Speaker 1: have a really great presence on Pinterest across a lot
Speaker 1: of categories like food and and home UH and Taste
Speaker 1: Made is a great partner because they not only create
Speaker 1: great original content that we structured this deal around UM,
Speaker 1: but they also center creators UM as a focus. So
Speaker 1: when you look at the Taste Made presence on UM Pinterest,
Speaker 1: you very much see UM creators creators who are food
Speaker 1: creators and home decre creators UM as the fuel that
Speaker 1: really drives what they do. So a big part of
Speaker 1: that relationship is UM supporting that constituent. UH. The deal
Speaker 1: is a deal in and of itself, but it's also
Speaker 1: a model for other deals that we've done with folks
Speaker 1: like Refinery twenty nine and um Blavity and also End
Speaker 1: Them All. I think End Them All is a good
Speaker 1: example where we worked with them in France, Italy and
Speaker 1: Spain UH to to really highlight some of the participants
Speaker 1: on Master Chef UM and to to go behind the
Speaker 1: scenes and to to catch up with these participants to
Speaker 1: actually unpack the recipes UM that they won with on
Speaker 1: the show, and to to really offer that up to
Speaker 1: our users are pinners, to be able to do those
Speaker 1: recipes themselves. So it sounds like video is not, you know,
Speaker 1: it's not you're making some sort of hard left. It's
Speaker 1: really organic in the sense that it the very themes
Speaker 1: that make Pinterest. Pinterest programming plays on that absolutely, and
Speaker 1: I would say that there are really three things that
Speaker 1: make pinterest unique and and differentiated amongst platforms that that
Speaker 1: are out there. The first is intent when a pinner
Speaker 1: and and pinners are our users come through the front
Speaker 1: door of of pinterest. UM, they're coming with an intent
Speaker 1: to to do something. UM. It isn't a passive entrance.
Speaker 1: They're coming to be inspired, to search for an idea,
Speaker 1: to make something, to do something, to bake something, to
Speaker 1: shop for something. So intent is really key. I think
Speaker 1: that the the other big differentiator of the platform is
Speaker 1: it's positivity and its inspiration. UM. Pinterest foundationally was built
Speaker 1: on on a notion of pinners want to be inspired
Speaker 1: and UH. Having a platform that we call and it
Speaker 1: is the positive corner of the Internet UM really really
Speaker 1: resonates with our our pinners and creators who UM come
Speaker 1: to the platform for that UM. And then the third
Speaker 1: thing is that pinterest is really a juggernaut of human curation.
Speaker 1: And I think it's you know, wonderful that we're here
Speaker 1: at at CS at a consumer electronics conference, UM with
Speaker 1: a platform and we center human curation. And what I
Speaker 1: mean by that is, UM, every day we have millions
Speaker 1: of pinners who are saving content, saving videos, saving images
Speaker 1: to their boards. And when they save these UM images
Speaker 1: and content, UM, they're doing it around home decre projects
Speaker 1: or birthday party, uh sort of design setups that they
Speaker 1: have coming and and that really does two things. One,
Speaker 1: it helps them to visualize and realize uh, the sort
Speaker 1: of inspiration that they want to move inspiration to real life.
Speaker 1: But it also gives us a ton of information and
Speaker 1: signals around um, this shoes goes with this dress, goes
Speaker 1: with this successory, and we're able to see that through
Speaker 1: the boards that UM pinners put together. So when you're
Speaker 1: talking about positivity and inspiration, I can't help but think
Speaker 1: there's obviously you know, and I know you guys necessarily
Speaker 1: consider yourselves a social network, But when you're talking about
Speaker 1: publishers and creators and programming, you're gonna be lumped in
Speaker 1: with the Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, TikTok's of the world, where
Speaker 1: positivity and inspiration seems to be in very short supply.
Speaker 1: I would assume that helps you with particularly advertisers. Absolutely,
Speaker 1: brand safety on Pinterest is absolutely core and central, and
Speaker 1: I think it goes back to this notion that when
Speaker 1: a pinner comes to Pinterest, we want them and they
Speaker 1: do leave feeling better than how they came in. And um,
Speaker 1: you know, when when I when I got to the
Speaker 1: company h a year ago, like when when I was elsewhere,
Speaker 1: I always like peered over and was really impressed by UM,
Speaker 1: this platform that really designed around UM inspiration and positivity
Speaker 1: and with policies that UM we're we're progressive UM for
Speaker 1: example banning weight loss ads and UM before any other platform,
Speaker 1: but banning political misinformation and climate misinformation UM. But but
Speaker 1: I wanted to understand, like, how, uh, from a technical
Speaker 1: standpoint does it does it really work? And Uh, it's
Speaker 1: baked into the math of the system. It's baked into
Speaker 1: um our algorithms. When when the system UM is at
Speaker 1: a crossroads and is making a decision between, uh, someone
Speaker 1: searching for a piece of content, is it going to
Speaker 1: give them a video that's just gonna be time spent
Speaker 1: or will it give them a video or piece of
Speaker 1: content that's time well spent. The system chooses time well
Speaker 1: spent because the system has captured what inspiration is UM
Speaker 1: really sort of algorithmically and mathematically. And I believe that
Speaker 1: algorithms don't just happen. Algorithms are a choice, and platforms
Speaker 1: have a responsibility. And from from a foundational standpoint, that's
Speaker 1: how we've really built pinterest up. How does the monetization
Speaker 1: work now that I guess you're talking probably even here
Speaker 1: at CES two advertisers about a whole different sort of
Speaker 1: kind of content. Yeah, so we when when when when
Speaker 1: you look at pinterest Because of that intentionality, because pinners
Speaker 1: are coming with a mindset to do UM, it makes
Speaker 1: monetization really seamless and in fact of pinners UM see
Speaker 1: Pinterests as a place to to shop. UM. So with that,
Speaker 1: we have made shopping a really core component to the platform. UM.
Speaker 1: So that's through building out UM product pens UH and
Speaker 1: building out affiliate links so that UM, if you're a
Speaker 1: creator or if you're a publisher, you're very easily able
Speaker 1: to UM share the goods and the product that that
Speaker 1: you're you're sharing. We also work to bring creators together
Speaker 1: UH with with brands. So for example, UH we have
Speaker 1: paid product tools, paid sponsorship tools that UM allow for
Speaker 1: creators who UM align with a certain brand. Like one
Speaker 1: example is Gatorade. When Gatorade was looking to to really
Speaker 1: champion hydration, UH, they matched up with four really prominent
Speaker 1: IT fitness creators on the platform to make really natural,
Speaker 1: organic content to support UM not only their messages but
Speaker 1: Gatorade messages at the same time. UM. I know we
Speaker 1: have an example of one of these new video programs
Speaker 1: if we can queue that up on the screen. So
Speaker 1: I love that one. And and that's a partnership that
Speaker 1: we did with UM the Louver Museum, and I think
Speaker 1: I think it's a great example also because I think
Speaker 1: that UM pinterest is also unexpected UM. You know a
Speaker 1: lot of folks don't realize that UM video is so
Speaker 1: prominent on pinterest and that's a growing area and opportunity
Speaker 1: or that brands have a really big opportunity to to
Speaker 1: connect with creators and and ultimately with UM you know,
Speaker 1: their their buyers as well. And this is an example
Speaker 1: a partnership that we did with the Louver to really
Speaker 1: get sort of behind the scenes UM and find some
Speaker 1: of the surprising UM moments in areas of the Louver
Speaker 1: UM that that museum goers may not have seen. Like
Speaker 1: one of my favorite ones is UM, what about the
Speaker 1: Louver without the Mona Lisa, Like if that wasn't the
Speaker 1: first thing person went to to make a bee line to,
Speaker 1: what else would you see? So so I think that
Speaker 1: that that spirit of pinterests of really UM opening up
Speaker 1: the world more for for pinners and users and inspiring
Speaker 1: them to explore more and to do more is very
Speaker 1: core and critical to to what we do. Yeah, it
Speaker 1: definitely sounds on brand for Pinterest, and this job that
Speaker 1: you're in sounds on brand for you because it reminds
Speaker 1: me of you know, back in your YouTube days. You
Speaker 1: would I mean, obviously there's some key differences, but you
Speaker 1: essentially did the same thing and a number of different
Speaker 1: roles in a number of different areas. It was about
Speaker 1: building up this content ecosystem. Were there parallels? Were there
Speaker 1: things that you brought from your YouTube days that you
Speaker 1: have applied to Pinterest? Yeah, you know what that there
Speaker 1: are are are similarities and and and their differences. I
Speaker 1: think that some of the differences goes back to, you
Speaker 1: know a little bit where where I started. I think
Speaker 1: that from UH user standpoint, the pinners who come to
Speaker 1: the platform come truly with intent. It isn't a passive arrival.
Speaker 1: They come to do. I think that the positivity of
Speaker 1: the platform UM is really it isn't a positive place
Speaker 1: because it's been mandated from a regulatory standpoint or nudge.
Speaker 1: It's actually UM the premise of the company UM. And
Speaker 1: then that human curation is key. Like back in the
Speaker 1: day UM, I was a jazz DJ and on college
Speaker 1: radio and um, how how you place, you know, is
Speaker 1: it John Coltrane, then Billie Holiday then like that that
Speaker 1: curation is content in and of itself. And we have
Speaker 1: millions of people. There's six billion boards on Pinterest of
Speaker 1: curation and and and it's the the the only platform
Speaker 1: that that has such a significant um human curatorial component. UM.
Speaker 1: So those are some of the differences. I'd say one
Speaker 1: of the big similarities. As you know, I was at
Speaker 1: YouTube in the early days, like right before that hockey
Speaker 1: stick and UM that that feeling and spirit of momentum,
Speaker 1: some of the patterns that that I saw at you
Speaker 1: you when we were building what would be you know,
Speaker 1: really really strong growth. UM I I see that feel
Speaker 1: that UM and love being a part of that at pinterest.
Speaker 1: A lot of similar patterns um in different ways and
Speaker 1: for different reasons, but a similarity in being at the
Speaker 1: beginning of um what we see as a real hockey stick.
Speaker 1: But there's of course the challenge of the hockey stick,
Speaker 1: which is you know, scaling too fast, losing control of
Speaker 1: the platform or these things. You're mindful of this so
Speaker 1: mindful um and and the company has been mindful from
Speaker 1: from really an establishment, you know, sort of standpoint like
Speaker 1: when it was founded and and I think that starting
Speaker 1: from a place of UH, we we believe that you
Speaker 1: can do good business and do good for the world,
Speaker 1: do good for society at the same time. Like I'm
Speaker 1: happy that there's a company where those two aren't at odds,
Speaker 1: where those two are actually the reason for each other. UM.
Speaker 1: And then all the nuts and bolts, supercharged trusts and
Speaker 1: safety teams UM, you know, really really focused UM efforts
Speaker 1: on UM that the challenges that come with open platforms,
Speaker 1: but but those investments have really yielded UM results. And
Speaker 1: and pinterest has been ranked number one most trusted platform
Speaker 1: of eight platforms UM by UM Business and no insider
Speaker 1: intelligence that's part of business in Yeah, yeah, that's right,
Speaker 1: and UM and and number one across like a number
Speaker 1: of different UH dimensions. So UM the results are showing,
Speaker 1: but UM you can't rest on on that front, and
Speaker 1: we're going to continue to to to invest there. Well,
Speaker 1: you're off to a good start. Looking forward to seeing
Speaker 1: what you do in twenty three. Thank you so much,
Speaker 1: all right, appreciate it. MH. This has been another episode
Speaker 1: of Strictly Business. Tune in next week for another helping
Speaker 1: of scintillating conversation with media movers and shakers, and please
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