1 00:00:23,760 --> 00:00:28,040 Speaker 1: Welcome to the show. Fellow ridiculous historians. My name is Ben. 2 00:00:28,400 --> 00:00:29,920 Speaker 1: You usually do something, and you usually do a bit 3 00:00:29,960 --> 00:00:31,760 Speaker 1: at the beginning of the show. Threw me for a 4 00:00:31,800 --> 00:00:34,000 Speaker 1: loop there, Ben, Do you want a bit? We can 5 00:00:34,080 --> 00:00:37,320 Speaker 1: go back? I think I needed to go back. Okay, guys, 6 00:00:37,800 --> 00:00:41,000 Speaker 1: journey with us back to the beginning. Wait, should we 7 00:00:41,080 --> 00:00:42,880 Speaker 1: keep this all on min Yeah, of course do that. Yeah, 8 00:00:42,920 --> 00:00:46,000 Speaker 1: I need to fill time alright. So, um, there's our 9 00:00:46,040 --> 00:00:50,640 Speaker 1: super producer, Casey Pegram. Everybody give him a hand. You guys, 10 00:00:50,680 --> 00:00:54,480 Speaker 1: we are flying blind today. We are we are. Here's 11 00:00:54,560 --> 00:00:56,760 Speaker 1: instead of a bit, let's do a bit of background. 12 00:00:56,840 --> 00:00:59,720 Speaker 1: How about that, Ben, That's smart. That was a smart 13 00:00:59,800 --> 00:01:02,360 Speaker 1: you of the word bit. So everyone knows where we're 14 00:01:02,360 --> 00:01:04,959 Speaker 1: coming from right now. Well that that's very important. Setting 15 00:01:05,040 --> 00:01:08,360 Speaker 1: up the scene is very important. So today's scene um 16 00:01:08,440 --> 00:01:13,000 Speaker 1: starts in uh, well, in France and Europe in general. 17 00:01:13,280 --> 00:01:16,959 Speaker 1: I guess in the late seventeen hundreds, because you see 18 00:01:17,000 --> 00:01:20,560 Speaker 1: in seventeen ninety nine Napoleon Bonaparte, remember the guy that 19 00:01:20,600 --> 00:01:25,640 Speaker 1: got swarmed by cute little bunnies. Uh, he overthrew the 20 00:01:25,640 --> 00:01:31,480 Speaker 1: French revolutionary government, right, yes, and this triggered what is 21 00:01:31,560 --> 00:01:35,240 Speaker 1: known as the Napoleonic Wars because he had designs on 22 00:01:35,319 --> 00:01:38,600 Speaker 1: conquering like everything. Yeah, he had. He was like a 23 00:01:38,640 --> 00:01:42,880 Speaker 1: more successful William Walker, who you will recall from previous episodes. 24 00:01:43,280 --> 00:01:48,560 Speaker 1: The Napoleonic Wars occurred between eighteen o three and eighteen fifteen, 25 00:01:48,840 --> 00:01:53,040 Speaker 1: and this was the French Empire led by Napoleon against 26 00:01:53,280 --> 00:01:58,320 Speaker 1: just a mix tape of various European powers VOLTRONI together 27 00:01:58,880 --> 00:02:02,640 Speaker 1: usually lead by the United Kingdom that was the ring leader, 28 00:02:02,680 --> 00:02:05,560 Speaker 1: and just just for a little bit of a quick bookkeeping, 29 00:02:05,800 --> 00:02:08,480 Speaker 1: it was in eighteen o two that there was a 30 00:02:08,560 --> 00:02:12,040 Speaker 1: thing called the Piece of Our Means that ended a 31 00:02:12,080 --> 00:02:16,280 Speaker 1: decade of war between Great Britain and France. Right, right, 32 00:02:16,360 --> 00:02:19,799 Speaker 1: So things were not particularly stable to begin with when 33 00:02:19,800 --> 00:02:23,240 Speaker 1: the wars begin in eighteen o three, and before we 34 00:02:23,320 --> 00:02:27,040 Speaker 1: go on this is this is gonna be a punchy episode, folks. 35 00:02:27,120 --> 00:02:30,239 Speaker 1: I think that's the word you use, no, because when 36 00:02:30,240 --> 00:02:32,639 Speaker 1: I said a bit of background, I was also talking 37 00:02:32,680 --> 00:02:37,040 Speaker 1: on a meta level about our situation today. We are 38 00:02:37,600 --> 00:02:41,320 Speaker 1: Noel Casey and I are in the studio for this episode, 39 00:02:41,760 --> 00:02:44,800 Speaker 1: and then we're going to be here into the night 40 00:02:45,440 --> 00:02:49,000 Speaker 1: making an appearance on a favorite show of ours behind 41 00:02:49,040 --> 00:02:51,400 Speaker 1: the bastards. She go ahead and plug that and assume 42 00:02:51,480 --> 00:02:54,560 Speaker 1: that we survived this recording session. Yeah, we'll see, as 43 00:02:54,160 --> 00:02:56,520 Speaker 1: we're gonna be some punchy characters by the time that's 44 00:02:56,520 --> 00:02:58,720 Speaker 1: all said and done. But yeah, O, our buddy Robert 45 00:02:58,720 --> 00:03:00,799 Speaker 1: Evans asked to be on the show, and we thought 46 00:03:00,800 --> 00:03:02,320 Speaker 1: he was joking when he said, yeah, you know, just 47 00:03:02,320 --> 00:03:05,400 Speaker 1: be about three or four hours. We're like, okay, we're 48 00:03:05,639 --> 00:03:08,359 Speaker 1: you know, we're game. But I'll tell you who else 49 00:03:08,400 --> 00:03:11,840 Speaker 1: was game? Was Napoleon for some conquerings? Yes, no, why 50 00:03:11,880 --> 00:03:15,400 Speaker 1: don't you walk us through a few of these conflicts 51 00:03:15,400 --> 00:03:18,880 Speaker 1: because this context is very important to today's story. Well, 52 00:03:19,120 --> 00:03:20,800 Speaker 1: the the U s is actually involved a little bit 53 00:03:20,800 --> 00:03:26,440 Speaker 1: as well. Um. Napoleon got back Louisiana from Spain in 54 00:03:26,560 --> 00:03:29,880 Speaker 1: eighteen hundred and then he made a brash attempt to 55 00:03:29,960 --> 00:03:34,200 Speaker 1: overthrow a revolution in Haiti Um but it did not succeed, 56 00:03:34,480 --> 00:03:39,000 Speaker 1: and so having Louisiana was not a valuable thing without 57 00:03:39,040 --> 00:03:42,960 Speaker 1: the strategic stronghold of Haiti, so he decided to give 58 00:03:43,000 --> 00:03:46,640 Speaker 1: it back to the US in the Louisiana Purchase of 59 00:03:46,680 --> 00:03:50,880 Speaker 1: eighteen o three, before Great Britain could invade it. Yes, 60 00:03:51,240 --> 00:03:56,640 Speaker 1: and In addition to this, the British forces were increasingly 61 00:03:56,880 --> 00:04:02,600 Speaker 1: creeped out, irritated, angered, upset, and eventually frightened by Napoleon's 62 00:04:02,640 --> 00:04:08,040 Speaker 1: actions in Europe, right with Switzerland, Germany, Italy and the Netherlands. 63 00:04:08,720 --> 00:04:13,160 Speaker 1: And they were also concerned, as you said, that Napoleon 64 00:04:13,720 --> 00:04:16,680 Speaker 1: might not stop at Haiti, he might become a threat 65 00:04:16,720 --> 00:04:21,960 Speaker 1: to Britain's overseas colonies. That's right, because the British had 66 00:04:22,040 --> 00:04:25,520 Speaker 1: the Royal Navy and they were doing quite a good 67 00:04:25,600 --> 00:04:30,159 Speaker 1: job of defending their shores um and French invasion attempts 68 00:04:30,160 --> 00:04:33,440 Speaker 1: had not gone so well, but the tide kind of 69 00:04:33,480 --> 00:04:36,919 Speaker 1: turned when there were some big successes by the French 70 00:04:36,960 --> 00:04:41,240 Speaker 1: military and the power of the British Navy started to 71 00:04:41,279 --> 00:04:43,080 Speaker 1: wane a little bit and they really needed to kind 72 00:04:43,080 --> 00:04:45,320 Speaker 1: of bolster that up. So there was a lot of 73 00:04:45,320 --> 00:04:49,360 Speaker 1: paranoia there would be a direct invasion by sea of 74 00:04:49,680 --> 00:04:53,200 Speaker 1: British territories. And that is where our story truly begins 75 00:04:53,240 --> 00:04:56,800 Speaker 1: with this paranoia and this concept of are the French 76 00:04:56,880 --> 00:05:00,600 Speaker 1: are coming? Yes, the French are coming. There was a 77 00:05:00,720 --> 00:05:06,159 Speaker 1: nationwide um fear that some historians described as interrational anxiety 78 00:05:06,160 --> 00:05:12,120 Speaker 1: about Napoleon's motives and intentions. They were especially spooked when 79 00:05:12,240 --> 00:05:17,680 Speaker 1: Napoleon asserted control over Switzerland. They thought the French the British. 80 00:05:17,760 --> 00:05:20,320 Speaker 1: They just thought the French could be coming at any 81 00:05:20,360 --> 00:05:26,360 Speaker 1: given moment. And one day, according to the story, or 82 00:05:26,839 --> 00:05:30,520 Speaker 1: a legend, or at the very least alleged story, a 83 00:05:30,680 --> 00:05:35,600 Speaker 1: French ship actually did land in England, but it wrecked. 84 00:05:36,040 --> 00:05:39,599 Speaker 1: It wrecked by an old fishing village named Hartley Pool. Yeah, 85 00:05:39,600 --> 00:05:42,279 Speaker 1: it was like right there on the beach. And um, 86 00:05:42,400 --> 00:05:50,559 Speaker 1: supposedly the heart Pudlian's Lapolians came running. Um and there 87 00:05:50,640 --> 00:05:56,280 Speaker 1: were supposedly no survivors to this wreck, no humans, man, 88 00:05:56,520 --> 00:05:59,279 Speaker 1: come on, come now, no human survivors to this wreck. 89 00:05:59,680 --> 00:06:04,000 Speaker 1: Uh it there was a little hairy guy. Um, who 90 00:06:04,040 --> 00:06:08,600 Speaker 1: who was you know, in fact or in fiction a monkey? Yes, 91 00:06:09,480 --> 00:06:14,240 Speaker 1: the only survivor of the wreck there on the northeastern 92 00:06:14,279 --> 00:06:19,799 Speaker 1: coast of England was a very panicked and traumatized little 93 00:06:19,920 --> 00:06:24,799 Speaker 1: monkey who washed ashore miraculously survived. Keep in mind, everybody 94 00:06:24,800 --> 00:06:30,240 Speaker 1: else on the ship drowned and the Hartlepudlians had never 95 00:06:30,279 --> 00:06:32,880 Speaker 1: seen a primate like this before. That is what they say. 96 00:06:32,960 --> 00:06:37,120 Speaker 1: And um. According to a source from Historic UK dot com, 97 00:06:37,240 --> 00:06:42,120 Speaker 1: the monkey was possibly dressed in a tiny military uniform. See, 98 00:06:42,200 --> 00:06:47,320 Speaker 1: that's that's interesting. I appreciate they say possibly, because again, 99 00:06:47,400 --> 00:06:49,520 Speaker 1: there are things about this story. I think you can 100 00:06:49,560 --> 00:06:52,679 Speaker 1: tell by the way we're carefully hedging some of these statements. 101 00:06:52,680 --> 00:06:55,560 Speaker 1: There are things about this story that can't really be proven, 102 00:06:56,120 --> 00:06:59,719 Speaker 1: but we do know internally the logic jibs because the 103 00:06:59,720 --> 00:07:02,599 Speaker 1: monkey is supposed to be a mascot of the ship, right. Yeah, 104 00:07:02,640 --> 00:07:04,120 Speaker 1: but that's the thing they have been I mean, do 105 00:07:04,120 --> 00:07:06,880 Speaker 1: you do all ships have mascots. That's not something I'd 106 00:07:06,880 --> 00:07:09,440 Speaker 1: ever heard of, surely not you carry around like a 107 00:07:09,480 --> 00:07:13,360 Speaker 1: signature animal, like a familiar. No, some military groups have 108 00:07:13,560 --> 00:07:15,920 Speaker 1: done that. Yeah, but I guess so like I can 109 00:07:15,920 --> 00:07:18,080 Speaker 1: actually live in create well, I guess like a football team, 110 00:07:18,080 --> 00:07:20,560 Speaker 1: like having like the u G a bulldog or whatever. 111 00:07:20,640 --> 00:07:22,400 Speaker 1: You know. I guess when I think of a mascot, 112 00:07:22,440 --> 00:07:27,400 Speaker 1: I think of somebody wearing a you know, a big basically, yeah, exactly. 113 00:07:27,760 --> 00:07:32,360 Speaker 1: Um so, yeah, So this supposed primate, uh, supposedly dressed 114 00:07:32,400 --> 00:07:36,920 Speaker 1: in a tiny military uniform, was panicked as one could imagine, 115 00:07:37,240 --> 00:07:43,480 Speaker 1: and gibbering mindlessly as monkeys do. Uh. And according to 116 00:07:43,560 --> 00:07:48,680 Speaker 1: the tail um, the Hartlepudlian's interpreted this gibbering as as 117 00:07:48,760 --> 00:07:52,480 Speaker 1: a foreign language, possibly French. Let's pause there for a second, casey, 118 00:07:52,520 --> 00:07:55,360 Speaker 1: could you do as a massive favor and play the 119 00:07:55,440 --> 00:07:58,120 Speaker 1: sound of a monkey chattering because we all know a 120 00:07:58,160 --> 00:08:01,200 Speaker 1: little bit about French enough to know what it sounds 121 00:08:01,240 --> 00:08:12,160 Speaker 1: like roughly what so clearly not French. If you don't 122 00:08:12,200 --> 00:08:14,920 Speaker 1: know French, who's who's to say? Who's to say? And 123 00:08:15,000 --> 00:08:19,840 Speaker 1: that is the crux of the story, knull because the 124 00:08:19,920 --> 00:08:24,520 Speaker 1: people of this town, the Hartlet Woodlands, had an awareness 125 00:08:24,600 --> 00:08:27,040 Speaker 1: of the nation of France and the threat that it 126 00:08:27,120 --> 00:08:30,920 Speaker 1: posed geopolitically, but not a person in the village had 127 00:08:30,960 --> 00:08:34,800 Speaker 1: ever seen a French person. And to make matters worse, apparently, 128 00:08:34,880 --> 00:08:38,319 Speaker 1: a lot of political satire cartoons of the day depicted 129 00:08:38,760 --> 00:08:43,280 Speaker 1: frenchmen as hairy, monkey like creatures with tales and sub 130 00:08:43,360 --> 00:08:45,080 Speaker 1: humans exactly because they were the enemy. I mean, it 131 00:08:45,160 --> 00:08:46,800 Speaker 1: was sort of like the you know, the Red Scare 132 00:08:46,880 --> 00:08:49,079 Speaker 1: type stuff. I mean, this guy is like gunning for 133 00:08:49,160 --> 00:08:52,360 Speaker 1: their their lands, right, So yeah, so what do the 134 00:08:52,400 --> 00:08:55,400 Speaker 1: what do they do? They do like any god fearing, 135 00:08:56,080 --> 00:08:59,439 Speaker 1: French fearing person would do. They panic, They panic, They 136 00:08:59,480 --> 00:09:03,200 Speaker 1: absolute freak out, they bug out, and according to this story, 137 00:09:03,600 --> 00:09:07,000 Speaker 1: they seize again this poor traumatized monkey who was skirted 138 00:09:07,080 --> 00:09:11,959 Speaker 1: death once already. So they panic. It's exactly what they do, uh, 139 00:09:12,000 --> 00:09:15,600 Speaker 1: and they say, we have to do something about this frenchman. Yeah. 140 00:09:15,679 --> 00:09:17,839 Speaker 1: But thankfully, you know, they had their bet, their wits 141 00:09:17,840 --> 00:09:21,520 Speaker 1: were about them. They didn't let justice go unserved, ben 142 00:09:22,000 --> 00:09:25,520 Speaker 1: They they decided to put this monkey on trial. Unfortunately, 143 00:09:25,600 --> 00:09:29,200 Speaker 1: due to the language barrier, the monkey was not able 144 00:09:29,280 --> 00:09:36,480 Speaker 1: to defend itself or provide um satisfactory answers to the 145 00:09:36,480 --> 00:09:38,760 Speaker 1: townspeople's question. That's right, because the thing has been they 146 00:09:38,760 --> 00:09:40,840 Speaker 1: didn't just think the monkey was it was a Frenchman. 147 00:09:41,200 --> 00:09:44,280 Speaker 1: They thought the monkey was a French spy. And I've 148 00:09:44,360 --> 00:09:47,880 Speaker 1: yet to find a detail that that justifies why exactly 149 00:09:47,920 --> 00:09:50,319 Speaker 1: that was. But those are the questions they were asking him, 150 00:09:50,320 --> 00:09:54,000 Speaker 1: a lot of Are you a spy? Right? I said, 151 00:09:54,320 --> 00:09:58,880 Speaker 1: are you a spy? He just keeps speaking frendship me. 152 00:09:59,040 --> 00:10:01,880 Speaker 1: I know, I know. So yeah, so they they sentenced 153 00:10:02,040 --> 00:10:06,280 Speaker 1: the monkey to death, according to the tail. Yeah. You 154 00:10:06,320 --> 00:10:11,120 Speaker 1: can read different accounts of this, but sources that cleave 155 00:10:11,240 --> 00:10:14,800 Speaker 1: to the story or the anecdote say that the town's 156 00:10:14,880 --> 00:10:18,640 Speaker 1: folk literally dragged this monkey into the town square and 157 00:10:18,679 --> 00:10:22,880 Speaker 1: then they hanged him and he died. But this is 158 00:10:22,920 --> 00:10:25,760 Speaker 1: where we get a couple of different I don't know 159 00:10:25,840 --> 00:10:31,240 Speaker 1: interpretations and questions about credibility because there's a darker side 160 00:10:31,240 --> 00:10:34,400 Speaker 1: to the tail that we found in Historic UK dot 161 00:10:34,440 --> 00:10:40,480 Speaker 1: com The Hanging of the Heartletpool Monkey by Ben Johnson. 162 00:10:41,280 --> 00:10:47,400 Speaker 1: The dark turn is this, maybe the villagers didn't actually 163 00:10:47,480 --> 00:10:51,880 Speaker 1: hang a monkey, but instead a small boy, pretty a 164 00:10:52,000 --> 00:10:56,200 Speaker 1: child who was employed on the warship, because at this 165 00:10:56,280 --> 00:10:59,880 Speaker 1: time there were boys who were hired on and work 166 00:11:00,200 --> 00:11:04,400 Speaker 1: on these ships to prime the cannons with gunpowder, with 167 00:11:04,400 --> 00:11:08,840 Speaker 1: a very convenient name of powder monkeys. Right, So is 168 00:11:08,920 --> 00:11:13,120 Speaker 1: this a game of telephone throughout history with the misinterpretation 169 00:11:13,520 --> 00:11:16,480 Speaker 1: occurring as people tell the story over and over again. Yeah, 170 00:11:16,600 --> 00:11:18,360 Speaker 1: it's it's it's true. These are these are all very 171 00:11:18,360 --> 00:11:21,520 Speaker 1: important questions that we probably won't have an actual satisfactory 172 00:11:21,520 --> 00:11:24,839 Speaker 1: answer to spoiler. But it's because no one was there 173 00:11:24,960 --> 00:11:28,480 Speaker 1: and it was you know a lot of ships went 174 00:11:28,559 --> 00:11:32,360 Speaker 1: down around that time because uh, like I said, the 175 00:11:32,360 --> 00:11:38,240 Speaker 1: the naval exploits of Napoleon weren't all always that successful, right, 176 00:11:38,640 --> 00:11:44,560 Speaker 1: And according to Historic England's records of thirty eight thousand 177 00:11:44,600 --> 00:11:49,680 Speaker 1: shipwrecks around the coast of Britain. Fourteen ships sank in 178 00:11:49,720 --> 00:11:54,000 Speaker 1: the Hartlepool Bay area around that time, so there it 179 00:11:54,120 --> 00:12:03,720 Speaker 1: was not incredibly uncommon for shipwrecks to occur. So that's 180 00:12:04,280 --> 00:12:06,600 Speaker 1: I think we can agree. That's more or less the 181 00:12:06,640 --> 00:12:09,680 Speaker 1: gist of the legend correct, correct, But that's not the 182 00:12:09,760 --> 00:12:11,800 Speaker 1: gist of the episode. I mean, we wouldn't just stop 183 00:12:11,840 --> 00:12:13,880 Speaker 1: short there. There's there's gotta be more. Band, There's gotta 184 00:12:13,920 --> 00:12:16,040 Speaker 1: be more. Please give us more. There has to be more. 185 00:12:16,120 --> 00:12:19,880 Speaker 1: You're right, because you see, this is where the credibility 186 00:12:20,040 --> 00:12:25,680 Speaker 1: of the tail comes into questions. So you could say, 187 00:12:25,760 --> 00:12:29,480 Speaker 1: maybe something like this happened and it got embellished over time, right. 188 00:12:29,960 --> 00:12:34,200 Speaker 1: But the problem is this tale is attributed to more 189 00:12:34,280 --> 00:12:39,720 Speaker 1: than one place. There's a remarkably similar tale from seventeen 190 00:12:39,840 --> 00:12:45,640 Speaker 1: seventy two that centers on Bodom near peter Head in Aberdeenshire. 191 00:12:45,880 --> 00:12:48,480 Speaker 1: I love British town name. There's an even better one then. 192 00:12:48,480 --> 00:12:50,920 Speaker 1: I believe that's a Welsh town, all right, and I'm sorry, 193 00:12:50,920 --> 00:12:54,520 Speaker 1: a Cornish town, right, yes, yeah, I'll give this one 194 00:12:54,559 --> 00:13:00,840 Speaker 1: a go. My never see, Okay, come on, Cornish folks 195 00:13:01,280 --> 00:13:05,439 Speaker 1: tell us, hmm, I would have done the same. You know, 196 00:13:05,720 --> 00:13:08,040 Speaker 1: I'm with you on them. So in both of these cases, 197 00:13:09,000 --> 00:13:14,920 Speaker 1: villagers supposedly find a monkey. Yeah, and in one of them, 198 00:13:14,960 --> 00:13:18,120 Speaker 1: I believe they it was the last survivor of the 199 00:13:18,160 --> 00:13:20,880 Speaker 1: shipwreck and so they killed it so that they could 200 00:13:20,880 --> 00:13:23,240 Speaker 1: have claim on the cargo. Isn't that the deal with 201 00:13:23,240 --> 00:13:26,000 Speaker 1: some kind of technicality salvage law? Yeah, that's aberdeen Shire 202 00:13:26,640 --> 00:13:29,560 Speaker 1: and so brutal. The monkey was human enough. I guess 203 00:13:29,679 --> 00:13:31,560 Speaker 1: what would it have done? Would it have become the 204 00:13:31,600 --> 00:13:35,160 Speaker 1: new captain? Would it have made a claim? And then 205 00:13:35,200 --> 00:13:38,199 Speaker 1: the other one, I believe the monkey was an organ 206 00:13:38,280 --> 00:13:40,720 Speaker 1: grinder monkey. It wasn't the same. It wasn't a slightly 207 00:13:40,720 --> 00:13:43,559 Speaker 1: different did a kid uh huh? Yeah? That monkey had 208 00:13:43,559 --> 00:13:47,680 Speaker 1: a coming That still happens when animals attack people. Have 209 00:13:47,679 --> 00:13:50,160 Speaker 1: you ever seen that show when animals attack people? I've 210 00:13:50,520 --> 00:13:53,400 Speaker 1: I've seen when animals attack, yes, but my favorite one 211 00:13:53,440 --> 00:13:56,560 Speaker 1: is the one where it's specifically they attack people. You 212 00:13:56,600 --> 00:14:01,280 Speaker 1: know what. I'm fond of animals attacking cars. That's a thing. 213 00:14:01,840 --> 00:14:04,000 Speaker 1: Have you ever seen those videos of like, first off, 214 00:14:04,120 --> 00:14:08,040 Speaker 1: if you have never been around a monkey, some of 215 00:14:08,040 --> 00:14:12,719 Speaker 1: those monkeys are brutal, they're not playing, and it will 216 00:14:12,760 --> 00:14:15,640 Speaker 1: break into don't they eat their young too? Did I 217 00:14:15,720 --> 00:14:19,400 Speaker 1: make that up? I don't know. Never mind, let us 218 00:14:19,400 --> 00:14:22,400 Speaker 1: know if that's just the primate stereotype that we've we've 219 00:14:22,440 --> 00:14:24,840 Speaker 1: seen spread, or we could just check it now. Right. 220 00:14:25,440 --> 00:14:28,960 Speaker 1: So those are two points against the veracity of the 221 00:14:29,040 --> 00:14:33,520 Speaker 1: story that one thing very similar is attributed to a 222 00:14:33,560 --> 00:14:37,720 Speaker 1: completely different town, And there are other points that stick 223 00:14:37,760 --> 00:14:39,680 Speaker 1: with it. A lot of people who say that it 224 00:14:39,760 --> 00:14:45,120 Speaker 1: definitely happened they're in Heartletpool are supportive of it as 225 00:14:45,280 --> 00:14:48,200 Speaker 1: being a part of local culture. No, it's totally like 226 00:14:48,280 --> 00:14:52,840 Speaker 1: part of their heritage because it's weird. It's like, on 227 00:14:52,880 --> 00:14:54,520 Speaker 1: the one hand, it seems like a term of abuse, 228 00:14:54,560 --> 00:14:56,360 Speaker 1: but in the other hand, some people look at it 229 00:14:56,400 --> 00:14:59,760 Speaker 1: as a term of pride. Heart Lipudlians are often described 230 00:14:59,840 --> 00:15:04,360 Speaker 1: at monkey hangers. Yeah, and for centuries after the legend spread, 231 00:15:05,480 --> 00:15:10,360 Speaker 1: references to monkey hanging were used to mock the residents 232 00:15:10,400 --> 00:15:15,360 Speaker 1: the Hartlet Pudlians, And apparently at football matches today between 233 00:15:15,480 --> 00:15:20,360 Speaker 1: local rivals they have this chant who hung the monkey? 234 00:15:20,360 --> 00:15:22,720 Speaker 1: Which I would have loved to hear out of context. 235 00:15:23,360 --> 00:15:27,240 Speaker 1: There's also a quote um in this BBC article called 236 00:15:27,840 --> 00:15:30,760 Speaker 1: was a Monkey Really Hanged in Hartleypool from a historian 237 00:15:30,800 --> 00:15:34,160 Speaker 1: by the name of Keith Gregson, who mentions the fact 238 00:15:34,200 --> 00:15:36,160 Speaker 1: that there was sort of a divide between the town 239 00:15:36,800 --> 00:15:41,680 Speaker 1: because of a newly industrialized area. I believe, um, so 240 00:15:41,960 --> 00:15:43,600 Speaker 1: there was a sense that the folks that lived in 241 00:15:43,680 --> 00:15:47,720 Speaker 1: this new industrialized part of the town um called West 242 00:15:47,760 --> 00:15:51,000 Speaker 1: Hartley Pool, were more intelligent than those who lived in 243 00:15:51,040 --> 00:15:55,360 Speaker 1: the old um, more antiquated, you know, old clinging onto 244 00:15:55,360 --> 00:15:58,240 Speaker 1: the old ways part of the town. Um who may 245 00:15:58,280 --> 00:16:00,920 Speaker 1: have been the ones who hanged the monkey. So it 246 00:16:01,040 --> 00:16:03,360 Speaker 1: was kind of a there is a divide there and 247 00:16:03,400 --> 00:16:05,440 Speaker 1: that's the older part of the town is also where 248 00:16:05,440 --> 00:16:08,280 Speaker 1: the fishing industry continued, right, so they would have been 249 00:16:08,280 --> 00:16:11,560 Speaker 1: most likely to be hanging out by the waters. And 250 00:16:11,640 --> 00:16:15,840 Speaker 1: as the years passed, the people of Hartlepool begin to 251 00:16:15,920 --> 00:16:19,200 Speaker 1: embrace this story. As you have mentioned knowledge you alluded 252 00:16:19,240 --> 00:16:24,360 Speaker 1: to earlier. It becomes a point of cultural pride or 253 00:16:24,440 --> 00:16:28,800 Speaker 1: something that differentiates their town from other nearby towns, and 254 00:16:29,560 --> 00:16:33,920 Speaker 1: people begin to fall in love with it. It becomes 255 00:16:33,960 --> 00:16:38,720 Speaker 1: the subject of books. There's even a graphic novel. I think, 256 00:16:38,800 --> 00:16:43,360 Speaker 1: there's a play, and there's even a song with a 257 00:16:43,360 --> 00:16:45,360 Speaker 1: little bit of story behind it. Yea, let's hear that 258 00:16:46,440 --> 00:16:49,840 Speaker 1: well a lot bear batley Ball is walking along the shop, 259 00:16:50,320 --> 00:16:53,600 Speaker 1: but he's seen this littlarry man he's never seen before 260 00:16:54,320 --> 00:16:59,440 Speaker 1: sitting in the sun. Was this very little man Banana 261 00:16:59,600 --> 00:17:05,600 Speaker 1: and aso also not prove it. No, no, this this 262 00:17:05,640 --> 00:17:09,720 Speaker 1: song spoiler. This song essentially does the entire story. It 263 00:17:09,760 --> 00:17:12,399 Speaker 1: really does, and it it takes a good four and 264 00:17:12,440 --> 00:17:13,920 Speaker 1: a half minutes to do it. So we'll go ahead 265 00:17:13,920 --> 00:17:15,960 Speaker 1: and give it a nice little fade out right now. 266 00:17:16,240 --> 00:17:18,520 Speaker 1: But the song is actually a big part of how 267 00:17:18,560 --> 00:17:21,600 Speaker 1: this legend kind of came to be what it is today, right, Ben, Right, 268 00:17:21,680 --> 00:17:24,119 Speaker 1: that's how it got popularized, or at least the evolution 269 00:17:24,240 --> 00:17:26,560 Speaker 1: of a song. I'm not quite sure if it's this song. 270 00:17:26,880 --> 00:17:29,040 Speaker 1: So they can't actually find any attribution for what this 271 00:17:29,080 --> 00:17:31,560 Speaker 1: song is. And there's a set of lyrics that's a 272 00:17:31,560 --> 00:17:34,760 Speaker 1: little different. That is a reference to a song that 273 00:17:34,840 --> 00:17:39,040 Speaker 1: was first performed in eighteen fifty five by a performer 274 00:17:39,240 --> 00:17:42,600 Speaker 1: from the area by the name of Mr. E. Corvin 275 00:17:42,960 --> 00:17:47,280 Speaker 1: or Edward ned Corvin, who was a Victorian performer who 276 00:17:47,320 --> 00:17:51,359 Speaker 1: toured around the area known as the Time Side. Have 277 00:17:51,400 --> 00:17:53,560 Speaker 1: you ever heard of this Ben. Yeah, he was a 278 00:17:54,000 --> 00:17:58,639 Speaker 1: He was a time side concert hall player, wrote songs 279 00:17:58,640 --> 00:18:03,520 Speaker 1: and stuff. Tyneside is the banks of the River Tyne 280 00:18:03,640 --> 00:18:06,639 Speaker 1: in northeast England, so it's region that includes a couple 281 00:18:06,680 --> 00:18:09,440 Speaker 1: of places. A couple of different places have great names 282 00:18:09,600 --> 00:18:14,560 Speaker 1: Newcastle upon Tyne, Gateshead, Tynemouth, Walls and south Shields and 283 00:18:14,720 --> 00:18:17,679 Speaker 1: jar Oh probably mispronounced a couple of those. But if 284 00:18:17,680 --> 00:18:19,800 Speaker 1: you're listening and you're from that part of the world, Hey, 285 00:18:19,840 --> 00:18:21,880 Speaker 1: shout out to you. Shout out to you. I thought 286 00:18:21,880 --> 00:18:24,240 Speaker 1: you were gonna tell him to shut up no more. 287 00:18:24,359 --> 00:18:28,440 Speaker 1: I want more time side. You know what's interesting about Ned, 288 00:18:28,800 --> 00:18:30,639 Speaker 1: we can call him Ned because we're fans of his, 289 00:18:31,480 --> 00:18:36,119 Speaker 1: was that he was known for writing um like a 290 00:18:36,160 --> 00:18:39,680 Speaker 1: satirical song, a little bit of a lighthearted roast for 291 00:18:39,760 --> 00:18:42,440 Speaker 1: every town that he visited. So he would go visit 292 00:18:42,480 --> 00:18:44,440 Speaker 1: a town and he would write a song about them 293 00:18:44,640 --> 00:18:46,760 Speaker 1: while he was there, and he would perform it in 294 00:18:46,800 --> 00:18:51,080 Speaker 1: the town. So when Ned goes to heart Lip Pool, 295 00:18:51,560 --> 00:18:54,239 Speaker 1: he writes a song about write some sign with them, 296 00:18:54,240 --> 00:18:58,960 Speaker 1: the monkey hanging hmm. And this song becomes popular in 297 00:18:58,960 --> 00:19:02,840 Speaker 1: the region. People it eventually from what I understand Hart 298 00:19:02,880 --> 00:19:06,760 Speaker 1: lipid Lions themselves begin to be fans of the song. Well, 299 00:19:06,760 --> 00:19:08,720 Speaker 1: here's the thing Um. In this BBC article they talked 300 00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:11,400 Speaker 1: about how he was making references to a previous song 301 00:19:11,440 --> 00:19:14,280 Speaker 1: that existed called The Baboon, which is written in eighteen 302 00:19:14,359 --> 00:19:18,200 Speaker 1: twenty five, which was first heard around Um and it 303 00:19:18,240 --> 00:19:21,320 Speaker 1: was a different story entirely about a baboon that visited 304 00:19:21,400 --> 00:19:25,000 Speaker 1: the region with some Cossacks soldiers. So I don't quite 305 00:19:25,000 --> 00:19:28,040 Speaker 1: see the connection there, but just they both happened in kindeside. Yeah, 306 00:19:28,400 --> 00:19:30,600 Speaker 1: but how did he know about the He just made 307 00:19:30,680 --> 00:19:33,840 Speaker 1: up the Napoleonic? Is that what's being implied here Ben, 308 00:19:33,840 --> 00:19:36,600 Speaker 1: that he just made this thing up wholesale. What it 309 00:19:36,640 --> 00:19:41,119 Speaker 1: seems they're implied is that this was a remix or 310 00:19:41,560 --> 00:19:44,760 Speaker 1: a reworked version of the song, and that he took 311 00:19:44,880 --> 00:19:49,040 Speaker 1: elements from the Baboon and used them in his song 312 00:19:49,560 --> 00:19:53,280 Speaker 1: about the heart Lapudlian monkey Hangers. But at that point 313 00:19:53,880 --> 00:19:55,960 Speaker 1: was this already a legend? That's my question is like 314 00:19:56,040 --> 00:19:58,880 Speaker 1: is the legend coming from the song? Like where where 315 00:19:58,920 --> 00:20:01,679 Speaker 1: is the where's the need of truth here? Because there 316 00:20:01,680 --> 00:20:03,359 Speaker 1: are people that still we're gonna talk about a second 317 00:20:03,359 --> 00:20:05,359 Speaker 1: that still hang on to the fact that the idea 318 00:20:05,480 --> 00:20:07,760 Speaker 1: this could well have happened, ause it's such a bizarre story. 319 00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:10,000 Speaker 1: But that logic always eludes me when you say it's 320 00:20:10,040 --> 00:20:13,640 Speaker 1: so crazy it must be true. Well, also those folks, 321 00:20:13,760 --> 00:20:17,720 Speaker 1: as we'll find, have skin in the game, right, The 322 00:20:17,760 --> 00:20:21,320 Speaker 1: main people who believe it are themselves hardlet Bodlian's. It 323 00:20:21,840 --> 00:20:28,320 Speaker 1: feels like Corvin heard the story, the French monkey story right, 324 00:20:28,800 --> 00:20:33,040 Speaker 1: and then mixed with it aspects of the story about 325 00:20:33,040 --> 00:20:36,359 Speaker 1: the Baboon, also from time side, and then added a 326 00:20:36,480 --> 00:20:39,360 Speaker 1: dash of his own stuff. Here we go, and then 327 00:20:39,480 --> 00:20:42,400 Speaker 1: set the whole thing in Hartlepool. Okay, that that makes sense, 328 00:20:42,400 --> 00:20:43,960 Speaker 1: and here we go. We also have some other something 329 00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:46,880 Speaker 1: from this BBC article that says the original song had 330 00:20:46,960 --> 00:20:49,639 Speaker 1: some phrases in it that he reused like Harry French 331 00:20:49,680 --> 00:20:53,240 Speaker 1: Spy and Napoleon's uncle um. And I wish I could 332 00:20:53,240 --> 00:20:56,160 Speaker 1: find the lyrics to the Baboon um. But there's another 333 00:20:56,400 --> 00:20:59,280 Speaker 1: set of lyrics called the Monkey song that's not the 334 00:20:59,280 --> 00:21:00,760 Speaker 1: same as when we play aid. There's a lot of 335 00:21:00,800 --> 00:21:02,760 Speaker 1: these songs floating around, but it goes in former times 336 00:21:02,760 --> 00:21:06,199 Speaker 1: when Warren strife, the French invasion threatened life and always 337 00:21:06,320 --> 00:21:09,040 Speaker 1: armed to the knife. The fisherman hung the monkey. Oh, 338 00:21:09,080 --> 00:21:11,800 Speaker 1: the fisherman with courage high seized on the monkey for 339 00:21:11,880 --> 00:21:14,640 Speaker 1: a French spy, Hang him, says one he's to die. 340 00:21:14,840 --> 00:21:17,160 Speaker 1: They did, and they hung the monkey. Oh. But it's 341 00:21:17,160 --> 00:21:20,639 Speaker 1: like it's got that same sing songy folky quality that 342 00:21:20,680 --> 00:21:23,160 Speaker 1: the song we played has in the original song. That's 343 00:21:23,160 --> 00:21:24,760 Speaker 1: when we played because they think he's a spy, so 344 00:21:24,800 --> 00:21:26,960 Speaker 1: we'll hang him in the square. And this one's just 345 00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:29,320 Speaker 1: a little bit different that the fishermen were courage high, 346 00:21:29,440 --> 00:21:31,600 Speaker 1: seized on the monkey for a French spy, hang him, 347 00:21:31,640 --> 00:21:34,120 Speaker 1: says one, he's to die. They did, and they hung 348 00:21:34,240 --> 00:21:37,800 Speaker 1: the monkey. Oh. So I don't know, man, Like, is 349 00:21:37,840 --> 00:21:41,440 Speaker 1: it song that's like making this legend a thing? Or 350 00:21:41,920 --> 00:21:44,920 Speaker 1: is it oral history? It's oral history first, and then 351 00:21:45,119 --> 00:21:48,720 Speaker 1: the song which is borrowing from others songs. Okay, so 352 00:21:48,880 --> 00:21:51,720 Speaker 1: it's still because it's a song, it's still oral history. 353 00:21:51,840 --> 00:21:58,480 Speaker 1: That's true. That's a good point. Then here's where we 354 00:21:58,560 --> 00:22:02,600 Speaker 1: find disagree. As as we mentioned earlier, a lot of 355 00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:06,240 Speaker 1: the people who wholeheartedly believe in this story or claim 356 00:22:06,320 --> 00:22:11,240 Speaker 1: to are themselves hart Lapudlians. The successful mayoral candidate in 357 00:22:11,280 --> 00:22:14,040 Speaker 1: the two thousand two local elections. It's a guy named 358 00:22:14,040 --> 00:22:19,000 Speaker 1: Stewart Drummond. He campaigned dressed in the costume of He 359 00:22:19,080 --> 00:22:21,440 Speaker 1: wasn't just dressed in it, man, he was the official 360 00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:25,399 Speaker 1: mascot of the Heart Lapudlian Football Club, right, and he 361 00:22:25,600 --> 00:22:29,240 Speaker 1: campaigned for mayor dressed in that character. But that was 362 00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:32,040 Speaker 1: it was like a sort of a goof. It was 363 00:22:32,080 --> 00:22:34,840 Speaker 1: sort of a goof. But he maintains that it really 364 00:22:34,880 --> 00:22:37,320 Speaker 1: did happen. But of course you would maintain that really 365 00:22:37,359 --> 00:22:41,080 Speaker 1: did happen. He's running for mayor, wants the town to 366 00:22:41,119 --> 00:22:44,080 Speaker 1: be unique. It's great pr and as as we said, 367 00:22:44,440 --> 00:22:47,760 Speaker 1: he was the mascot for a time, but he also won. 368 00:22:48,520 --> 00:22:51,199 Speaker 1: He did win and stayed mayor for for like, I 369 00:22:51,240 --> 00:22:55,920 Speaker 1: think eleven years he was mayor. Three election victories, he succeeded. 370 00:22:56,320 --> 00:22:58,520 Speaker 1: And yeah, and it just goes to and he you know, 371 00:22:58,560 --> 00:23:02,359 Speaker 1: he maintains that nobody can say whether not this happened 372 00:23:02,440 --> 00:23:06,240 Speaker 1: or not because nobody was there. And that's okay, that's 373 00:23:06,240 --> 00:23:07,960 Speaker 1: one way of looking at it. I saw I saw 374 00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:11,280 Speaker 1: a quote where he said that it definitely something happened. 375 00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:13,840 Speaker 1: The problem is most of people who disagree with them 376 00:23:13,840 --> 00:23:17,640 Speaker 1: are professional historians. And even if they don't go so 377 00:23:17,720 --> 00:23:20,959 Speaker 1: far as to say this never happened, they end up 378 00:23:20,960 --> 00:23:24,760 Speaker 1: saying we looked everywhere for proof of this, and we 379 00:23:24,800 --> 00:23:29,760 Speaker 1: could find absolutely no proof. There was some excitement in 380 00:23:29,800 --> 00:23:33,160 Speaker 1: two thousand and five when an animal bone was found 381 00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:35,679 Speaker 1: buried on the beach. Despite the fact that in the 382 00:23:35,760 --> 00:23:39,040 Speaker 1: story the monkeys hanged in the town square. People thought, well, 383 00:23:39,080 --> 00:23:43,720 Speaker 1: this might be physical proof of a small primate Washington Ashore. Unfortunately, 384 00:23:43,920 --> 00:23:46,720 Speaker 1: it was not a primate bone. It was the bone 385 00:23:46,760 --> 00:23:50,480 Speaker 1: of a prehistoric deer, that's right, a deer from somewhere 386 00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:53,640 Speaker 1: in the neighborhood of six thousand years ago, when herds 387 00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:57,840 Speaker 1: of deer would have migrated across that part of the country. Um, 388 00:23:57,880 --> 00:24:01,159 Speaker 1: and they were followed by tribes of urs who wanted 389 00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:04,480 Speaker 1: them for sustenance and for you know, the byproducts like 390 00:24:04,520 --> 00:24:06,439 Speaker 1: their skin in there and their antlers and stuff. And 391 00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:09,080 Speaker 1: this is from a great article. Well this is my headline, 392 00:24:09,480 --> 00:24:12,720 Speaker 1: very very pithy headline, very good. Ancient bone not from 393 00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:16,240 Speaker 1: monkey spy. H Hopes of unraveling the mystery of the 394 00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:18,639 Speaker 1: legendary heartletpol Monkeys said to have been hanged as a 395 00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:22,359 Speaker 1: Napoleonic spy have been scuppered by science. Scuppered. Scuppered is 396 00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:24,080 Speaker 1: a great word. We need to bring that back. Like 397 00:24:24,119 --> 00:24:26,520 Speaker 1: a scupper dog. What's a scupper dogg It's like a 398 00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:29,199 Speaker 1: type of grape, I think, Oh yeah, sort of like 399 00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:34,240 Speaker 1: a muscat. Okay, muscott, I know, but say it again. 400 00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:38,080 Speaker 1: Scupper dog. Scupper dog. That sounds so Tolkien is, yeah, 401 00:24:38,119 --> 00:24:39,400 Speaker 1: you can make wine out of it, And in fact, 402 00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:42,720 Speaker 1: it is compared to a muscadine. It is a large 403 00:24:42,800 --> 00:24:45,320 Speaker 1: variety of muscadine. Oh you go, a species of grape 404 00:24:45,359 --> 00:24:48,320 Speaker 1: native to the southern United States. So right here in 405 00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:52,119 Speaker 1: our backyard. And at this point it becomes somewhat of 406 00:24:52,119 --> 00:24:55,160 Speaker 1: a matter of opinion, what do you feel better about believing? 407 00:24:55,440 --> 00:24:58,159 Speaker 1: The main argument for proponents of the story is that 408 00:24:58,240 --> 00:25:00,719 Speaker 1: it's not hurting anyone and there's no proof that it 409 00:25:00,760 --> 00:25:04,840 Speaker 1: didn't happen, which is not a particularly strong position to take, 410 00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:08,480 Speaker 1: especially because on the other side of the coin, there's 411 00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:11,679 Speaker 1: no proof that it did happen. That's right, So what 412 00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:14,720 Speaker 1: what do you believe? What do you choose to believe? Folks? 413 00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:17,399 Speaker 1: We're putting it to the people, well and to you 414 00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:19,600 Speaker 1: as well. Okay, well, I don't know, man, I don't 415 00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:22,320 Speaker 1: want to poopy on anybody's monkey parade or anything. But 416 00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:24,920 Speaker 1: it feels to me like with the nature of the 417 00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:29,560 Speaker 1: multiple monkey stories, uh, some of the kind of you know, 418 00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:33,120 Speaker 1: um mutating facts in the story and the different accounts 419 00:25:33,119 --> 00:25:36,800 Speaker 1: in song, I feel like this is rife for having 420 00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:39,679 Speaker 1: been a kind of a good gag, poking fun at 421 00:25:39,680 --> 00:25:44,800 Speaker 1: the intellect of the people of of Hartletpool. Yeah, personally, 422 00:25:45,040 --> 00:25:47,800 Speaker 1: I choose to believe it didn't happen because I don't 423 00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:50,480 Speaker 1: like the idea of a town of people hanging a monkey. 424 00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:53,600 Speaker 1: No man, come on, that's brutal. For me to be 425 00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:56,000 Speaker 1: able to laugh at it and derive enjoyment from it, 426 00:25:56,200 --> 00:25:57,840 Speaker 1: I have to think of it as a tall tale. 427 00:25:58,600 --> 00:26:02,439 Speaker 1: So this is this is the story of man. I 428 00:26:02,440 --> 00:26:05,920 Speaker 1: can't wait for the flood of email from people who 429 00:26:06,320 --> 00:26:09,360 Speaker 1: have strong opinions. We're gonna get a lot of time 430 00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:13,760 Speaker 1: side people have strong opinions and they send emails. It's 431 00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:16,440 Speaker 1: a new thing. You can be part of. It will 432 00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:19,520 Speaker 1: give you the information at the end. But speaking of emails, 433 00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:22,960 Speaker 1: enough about us, what what about you? Did you see 434 00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:28,840 Speaker 1: any good listener mails today? Nol A matter of fact, 435 00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:32,040 Speaker 1: I do, Ben I did, and I do still on 436 00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:34,800 Speaker 1: this one. Yeah. This one comes from Mr Venomous, and 437 00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:37,199 Speaker 1: it says Ben and Nol. Agents of Discord is what 438 00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:39,800 Speaker 1: he's referring to, which I like in all of history. 439 00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:43,040 Speaker 1: My favorite historical figure as Emperor Norton. His story makes 440 00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:46,919 Speaker 1: him a perfect candidate for ridiculous history. He was bequeathed 441 00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:49,919 Speaker 1: forty dollars from his father's estate. He tried making it 442 00:26:49,960 --> 00:26:52,160 Speaker 1: as a businessman in San Francisco, but made a bad 443 00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:55,680 Speaker 1: investment in buying a hundred tons of pure Peruvian rice. 444 00:26:56,119 --> 00:26:58,600 Speaker 1: A prolonged core battle over the loss of his investment 445 00:26:58,680 --> 00:27:02,120 Speaker 1: led him to go bankrupt eighteen fifty penniless and discontent 446 00:27:02,160 --> 00:27:04,919 Speaker 1: with the legal system and politics, he declared himself Emperor 447 00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:07,800 Speaker 1: of the United States and Protector of Mexico in eighteen 448 00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:10,280 Speaker 1: fifty nine. Let's just leave it there, Ben, because I 449 00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:12,840 Speaker 1: like this one and it almost sounds like it's something 450 00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:15,320 Speaker 1: stuff you miss in history class. Our peer podcast may 451 00:27:15,320 --> 00:27:17,600 Speaker 1: have done, but if not, we're gonna snatch it up. 452 00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:22,159 Speaker 1: And Agents of Discord is a reference I believe to 453 00:27:22,520 --> 00:27:26,159 Speaker 1: one of our other shows. Mr Venomous has written into 454 00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:28,800 Speaker 1: us before um on stuff theyn't want you to know 455 00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:31,720 Speaker 1: what it does. Ring about. Yeah, well, it's great to 456 00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:34,120 Speaker 1: hear from you again, man, I agree with my trustee 457 00:27:34,119 --> 00:27:36,720 Speaker 1: co host here. That is a fantastic idea for an 458 00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:39,359 Speaker 1: episode if we're the first ones to get to the 459 00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:43,800 Speaker 1: plate on it. We have one more email that's that's 460 00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:47,480 Speaker 1: a little bit long from Adam s He titled it 461 00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:51,040 Speaker 1: lots of topics. Sorry of just going to read some 462 00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:54,040 Speaker 1: of the greatest hits or the excerpts here. So Adam, 463 00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:56,760 Speaker 1: you say, hey, guys, recently picked up the podcast, so 464 00:27:56,840 --> 00:27:59,120 Speaker 1: catching up and I'm nearly there. I love the show 465 00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:01,440 Speaker 1: so far, but I do listen to the new episodes 466 00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:05,400 Speaker 1: then go back to make my way through that golden backlog. Huh. 467 00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:08,960 Speaker 1: And then I've never heard us our backlog described as golden. 468 00:28:09,680 --> 00:28:13,800 Speaker 1: He has some suggestions for food fails. Adam says, you 469 00:28:13,880 --> 00:28:17,000 Speaker 1: talked about food fails. Can I point a drink one 470 00:28:17,119 --> 00:28:20,480 Speaker 1: your way? Here? In the UK, Coca Cola released a 471 00:28:20,560 --> 00:28:22,600 Speaker 1: water which I think you may still get in the 472 00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:25,840 Speaker 1: U s Desani. They used the marketing as something like 473 00:28:26,119 --> 00:28:29,040 Speaker 1: can't live without spunk Here in the UK, that's a 474 00:28:29,080 --> 00:28:31,800 Speaker 1: slang word for something you really wouldn't want in your drink. 475 00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:34,760 Speaker 1: How we said that over here plenty. Yeah, I think 476 00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:38,160 Speaker 1: that's that what made it across the pond. Uh and 477 00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:40,360 Speaker 1: Adam says it got better when it was found out 478 00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:42,880 Speaker 1: that it was treated tap water from a suburban London 479 00:28:43,160 --> 00:28:45,520 Speaker 1: and was no better than said tap water. When the 480 00:28:45,520 --> 00:28:47,800 Speaker 1: press got ahold of it, it was a PR nightmare 481 00:28:47,840 --> 00:28:49,720 Speaker 1: and pulled. I think it may be one of the 482 00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:53,959 Speaker 1: funniest and worst PR disasters here for a while now. 483 00:28:54,320 --> 00:28:57,960 Speaker 1: This got me thinking, at least we could do an 484 00:28:57,960 --> 00:29:02,880 Speaker 1: episode on some of the biggest historic food fails. There 485 00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:05,480 Speaker 1: used to be a museum in the States a long 486 00:29:05,520 --> 00:29:08,560 Speaker 1: time ago. There was a hall of Shame for foods 487 00:29:08,600 --> 00:29:12,720 Speaker 1: that appeared and disappeared from supermarkets, things like peas that 488 00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:15,360 Speaker 1: were pressed into a shape of French fries to try 489 00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:18,600 Speaker 1: to treat kids into eating their vegetables. Yeah, as a 490 00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:20,200 Speaker 1: as a father of a nine year old, I can 491 00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:22,160 Speaker 1: tell you that's not gonna fly. It did not fly. 492 00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:24,880 Speaker 1: But I tried making my kid eat cauliflower because you 493 00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:27,840 Speaker 1: can like make cauliflower into like a rice type. She 494 00:29:27,880 --> 00:29:30,360 Speaker 1: doesn't buy it. She knows it's not rice. I'll make 495 00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:32,880 Speaker 1: a cauliflower pizza, but she did it. Well, that's different. 496 00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:34,760 Speaker 1: I feel like that's that's that's a good example, Ben, 497 00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:38,160 Speaker 1: because that's like you're baking it and it has that crunch. 498 00:29:38,560 --> 00:29:40,920 Speaker 1: But with rice, it's just they're not they're not rice 499 00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:43,840 Speaker 1: sized graines. You're not going to mistake them for rut. 500 00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:47,880 Speaker 1: That's why it's rice cauliflower, not cauliflower rice. Right, So 501 00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:51,000 Speaker 1: thank you Mr Venomous, Thank you Adam for writing in. 502 00:29:51,800 --> 00:29:54,880 Speaker 1: We want to hear some more food fails, so send 503 00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:58,280 Speaker 1: us your favorite ones from your neck of the global woods. Yeah, 504 00:29:58,320 --> 00:29:59,880 Speaker 1: you can write to us a ridiculous and how stuff 505 00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:03,240 Speaker 1: dot com. You can hit us up on social media Facebook, Instagram, 506 00:30:03,280 --> 00:30:05,600 Speaker 1: Twitter and all that. You can join our Facebook group 507 00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:08,400 Speaker 1: Ridiculous Historians. Or we still kick around some fun ideas 508 00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:10,680 Speaker 1: and have a really nice community that's sprung up there. 509 00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:13,360 Speaker 1: So come come hang out with us there on Ridiculous Historians. 510 00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:15,400 Speaker 1: Of course, we want to thank you for listening. We 511 00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:19,400 Speaker 1: want to thank our super producer, Casey Pegroom, thanks to 512 00:30:19,520 --> 00:30:23,240 Speaker 1: Christopher Hasiotis and Eve's Jeff Code, our research associates, and 513 00:30:23,280 --> 00:30:26,240 Speaker 1: thanks to Alex Williams who composed our track We'll see 514 00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:28,360 Speaker 1: you next time, folks. Can we go out on the 515 00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:31,680 Speaker 1: monkey song? Let's catch you? Oh, man, let's do it. 516 00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:34,400 Speaker 1: It was open deal old that we pool about the 517 00:30:34,480 --> 00:30:39,960 Speaker 1: time of France. The Emperor Napoleon was laying went a 518 00:30:40,120 --> 00:30:42,800 Speaker 1: bull on the bulls game. A British man of all 519 00:30:43,560 --> 00:30:46,880 Speaker 1: the captains, all pen monkey, go wash the bottle of shop, 520 00:30:47,120 --> 00:30:52,400 Speaker 1: singing old folks, everyone in each come and see the 521 00:30:52,440 --> 00:30:58,960 Speaker 1: French cheat is landed on the beach. He's got We 522 00:30:59,120 --> 00:31:02,360 Speaker 1: think Betty's the spy is so like in the square