WEBVTT - Hitler’s Olympics, Part 9: A Plague on Both Your Houses.

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<v Speaker 1>The thing I'm really really interested in is the kind

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<v Speaker 1>of way the case was received around the country and

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<v Speaker 1>the world. That's where I want to get to. But

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<v Speaker 1>starting with So, this train that's going to run right

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<v Speaker 1>out there, it's coming from Chattanooga right going where at Nashville, Memphis,

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<v Speaker 1>going to Memphis. Yeah, I'm in a little town in

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<v Speaker 1>northeast Alabama called Scottsborough, sitting in an old African Methodist

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<v Speaker 1>Episcopal church built in eighteen seventy eight by former slaves.

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<v Speaker 1>The church is now a museum and Ben, the daph

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<v Speaker 1>Haffrey and I are talking to the director, Tom Reidy

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<v Speaker 1>about what happened on the Chattanooga to Memphis train at

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<v Speaker 1>the peak of the Great Depression.

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<v Speaker 2>It's nineteen thirty one. People are hoboing all over the

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<v Speaker 2>country and on the morning of March twenty fifth, the

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<v Speaker 2>nine defendants along with two young ladies from Huntsville, along

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<v Speaker 2>with dozens of others. Never we'll never know who else

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<v Speaker 2>was on that train between here and Chattanooga. There was

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<v Speaker 2>an altercation on the train and at Stevenson, which is

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<v Speaker 2>a town about twenty miles from here, six white guys

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<v Speaker 2>were thrown off the train by a group of African Americans.

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<v Speaker 2>This is probably one part of the story. Everybody agrees

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<v Speaker 2>on that the six came off and these other guys

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<v Speaker 2>stayed on. There's a fight, Yeah, there's a fight over space.

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<v Speaker 1>This is Alabama at the height of Jim Crow.

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<v Speaker 2>So these the white guys that got off the train

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<v Speaker 2>went back to the agent at the Stevenson depot and said, hey,

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<v Speaker 2>we just got thrown off this train, which they were

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<v Speaker 2>illegally on right there on ticketed. But and there's all

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<v Speaker 2>these black guys. Of course they didn't call them black guys.

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<v Speaker 2>And oh, by the way, two white women.

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<v Speaker 1>We have white women and young black men together on

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<v Speaker 1>a train. The station master at Stevenson Depot calls ahead

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<v Speaker 1>to the paint Rock station.

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<v Speaker 2>By the time they get to paint Rock, there's anywhere

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<v Speaker 2>from one hundred and one hundred and fifty men, horses,

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<v Speaker 2>ropes waiting for the train.

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<v Speaker 1>Everyone's pulled off the train. The two women say they've

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<v Speaker 1>been raped. The nine young men, some of them just

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<v Speaker 1>kids twelve and thirteen years old, gets shipped directly to Scottsboro,

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<v Speaker 1>which is the county seat. By the time they get there,

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<v Speaker 1>another mob is waiting, and.

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<v Speaker 2>There's this wonderful Atticus Finch moment in the story where

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<v Speaker 2>the sheriff of Scottsboro, Mattwane, comes out with his shotgun

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<v Speaker 2>and says, the first one that tries to cross me

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<v Speaker 2>is going to get their head blown off. And that

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<v Speaker 2>apparently held the crowd back a little.

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<v Speaker 3>Because I guess they believed them, And.

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<v Speaker 2>Two weeks later, on April sixth, and three hours after

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<v Speaker 2>they met their attorney, the trial started.

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<v Speaker 1>Him Malcolm Gladwell, Welcome to Revisionist History, my show about

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<v Speaker 1>things overlooked and misunderstood. This is a ninth episode in

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<v Speaker 1>our series about Hitler's Olympics, The Games behind the Games.

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<v Speaker 1>We've spent the last eight episodes exploring the many rationalizations,

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<v Speaker 1>self justifications, and delusions triggered by the Berlin Olympics. Berlin

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<v Speaker 1>kicked off cognitive dissonance on an international scale. Hitler's wave

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<v Speaker 1>of anti Semitism focused the world's attention on Germany, But

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<v Speaker 1>in nineteen thirty one, something happened across the ocean from

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<v Speaker 1>Germany that held the world's attention in the same way

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<v Speaker 1>the Scotsboro Boys trial. In this our series finale, let's

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<v Speaker 1>turn the clock back to nineteen thirty one. The Scottsborough

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<v Speaker 1>trial was a farce. There was no evidence of rape,

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<v Speaker 1>and one of the women would later retract her accusation.

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<v Speaker 1>Neither fact made a difference in nine.

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<v Speaker 4>Negro youths are hurriedly arrested, promptly marched off to Scottsboro

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<v Speaker 4>for trial. Six days later, they are indicted uncharges of assault.

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<v Speaker 4>Seven of them are senanced by Justice John C. Anderson

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<v Speaker 4>to hang by the neck until dead. Subsequent motion for

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<v Speaker 4>a new trial is overruled as the Alabama Supreme Court

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<v Speaker 4>affirms the convictions.

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<v Speaker 1>This kind of thing had been happening in the South

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<v Speaker 1>for years, but something about Scottsboro and the brazenness of

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<v Speaker 1>all white juries saying guilty, guilty, guilty, really touched a nerve.

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<v Speaker 4>Thousands of telegrams bore into Alabama from all over the world,

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<v Speaker 4>asserting that the Negroes had been night a fair trial.

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<v Speaker 4>The case is finally carried to the highest court in

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<v Speaker 4>the land, the Supreme Court of the United States.

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<v Speaker 1>There was public pressure, There were appeals, re trials, landlock.

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<v Speaker 3>Did you go to jump in chout?

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<v Speaker 5>They tell you what's all about.

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<v Speaker 2>Everybody's writing about it. Everybody knows the Discosbrow Voice. People

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<v Speaker 2>were starting to have radios in their house. But it's

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<v Speaker 2>just remarkable how fast the word did spread on.

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<v Speaker 1>This Reedy was sitting inside the old church as we spoke,

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<v Speaker 1>and behind him there was a poster. It was a

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<v Speaker 1>list of names linked in some way to the public

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<v Speaker 1>campaign to get justice for the Scotsboro Boys. There was I. B. Wells,

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<v Speaker 1>the great African American activist, Jimmy Cagney, one of the

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<v Speaker 1>biggest names in Hollywood, and then Albert Einstein.

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<v Speaker 2>Einstein was in Germany when they arrested, and he in

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<v Speaker 2>the summer of nineteen thirty one wrote a letter with

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<v Speaker 2>a bunch of German scientists to the governor Miller, saying, well,

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<v Speaker 2>they were intellectuals, they called them. So German intellectuals demand

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<v Speaker 2>the release of the Scottsboro Boys because they're innocent.

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<v Speaker 1>And Einstein, I sent is like physicists living in Germany. Right,

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<v Speaker 1>who is somehow so moved by the press accounts of this?

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<v Speaker 3>Right?

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<v Speaker 1>Two years before Hitler became Chancellor, thousands of Germans were

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<v Speaker 1>out in the streets protesting American white supremacy.

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<v Speaker 2>And they had people throwing rocks through the American embassy

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<v Speaker 2>with notes taped onto him. That was just say they

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<v Speaker 2>shall not die.

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<v Speaker 1>And that is why Ben and I were in Scottsborough.

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<v Speaker 3>I remember when you sent me an email with one

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<v Speaker 3>line and it was like, We're going to do an

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<v Speaker 3>episode on Scottsboro. And I was like, why would we

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<v Speaker 3>talk about Scottsborough? And then I realized what year it

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<v Speaker 3>was and what happened the year after?

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<v Speaker 1>Oh right, nineteen thirty two an Olympic year as well,

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<v Speaker 1>and where were those games held? I think you can

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<v Speaker 1>guess where this is headed. In April of venteteen twenty three,

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<v Speaker 1>a real estate developer from California named Billy Garland traveled

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<v Speaker 1>to Rome for the annual meeting of the International Olympic Committee.

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<v Speaker 1>Garland was good friends with Avery Brundage. They were cut

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<v Speaker 1>from the same cloth, men from humble beginnings with outsized ambition,

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<v Speaker 1>dreamers builders. But where Brundage was grim and angry, with

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<v Speaker 1>a chip on his shoulder the size of Lake Michigan,

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<v Speaker 1>Garland was all sunny, optimism and charm. Billy everyone called

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<v Speaker 1>him Billy had life force. Billy grew up poor and

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<v Speaker 1>married money. Billy was the embodiment of Los Angeles, a

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<v Speaker 1>city in the nineteen twenties, half a million strong and

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<v Speaker 1>growing by the day, a city on the verge of stardom.

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<v Speaker 1>Billy watched the sunrise every morning over the San Berardino Mountains,

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<v Speaker 1>but never bothered to look to see if it's said

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<v Speaker 1>at night.

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<v Speaker 6>LA was really controlled and run by a coterie of

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<v Speaker 6>a shadow government comprised of banker's financiers, but really, above

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<v Speaker 6>all the real estate.

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<v Speaker 1>Man Barry Siegel, the author of a wonderful book about

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<v Speaker 1>Billy Garland, Dreamers and Schemers.

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<v Speaker 6>Of which Billy Garland was premier. The prince of the realtors.

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<v Speaker 1>Billy owned huge swaths of downtown Los Angeles. His best

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<v Speaker 1>friend was the publisher of the La Times, the most

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<v Speaker 1>powerful man in the city. His brothers in the shadow

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<v Speaker 1>government kept out of the spotlight.

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<v Speaker 3>Billy.

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<v Speaker 6>Billy was the frontman, a very outgoing personality, making speeches,

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<v Speaker 6>arriving at the railroad station, press conferences, writing columns of

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<v Speaker 6>his own for the La Times, always always promoting, promoting

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<v Speaker 6>the city, promoting the future.

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<v Speaker 1>So in nineteen twenty three, Billy sails to Italy for

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<v Speaker 1>his biggest pitch yet to the International Olympic Committee. The

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<v Speaker 1>IOC was meeting that year in the Old Capitol Building

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<v Speaker 1>across from the Forum, a venue worthy of a group

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<v Speaker 1>obsessed with antiquity. To start the day, the King of

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<v Speaker 1>Italy said a few words. Then the King is opening things,

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<v Speaker 1>and like, here's this guy from I mean, from what

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<v Speaker 1>their perspective must have been, the middle of nowhere.

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<v Speaker 6>Absolutely, they literally were asking him where Los Angeles is?

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<v Speaker 1>What's his trump card?

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<v Speaker 6>Hollywood? By that time, Hollywood films were widely popular all

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<v Speaker 6>around the world, and that's one of the things he

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<v Speaker 6>was asked at that meeting. Is is La anywhere near Hollywood?

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<v Speaker 6>And Billy was smart enough to say, yes, La is

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<v Speaker 6>a suburb of Hollywood.

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<v Speaker 1>He understood that that glamour, the emerging glamour of the region,

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<v Speaker 1>could play to his advantage. Yes, yeah, I'm just thinking

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<v Speaker 1>back to the IOC though, because the the IOC really

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<v Speaker 1>is it's like every faded aristocrat in Europe is, Yes,

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<v Speaker 1>every fuddy dotty you can find with their wax mustache

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<v Speaker 1>is around the table. And then this like this, this

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<v Speaker 1>this kind of charismatic, wide open, extroverted Californian shows up.

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<v Speaker 1>I just I'm just imagining. It's a fantastic scene.

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<v Speaker 6>I've imagined it too, And I think that's part of

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<v Speaker 6>how he was effected. I mean, he was a breath

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<v Speaker 6>of fresh air. He knew how to talk to them,

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<v Speaker 6>the idea. When he rose to give his talk, his pitch,

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<v Speaker 6>he's pitching America. He's pitching the culture of America, which

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<v Speaker 6>is still which is strange and exotic to them.

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<v Speaker 1>They're there amidst all of this sort of eighteenth century grandeur,

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<v Speaker 1>and the American stands up and says, there's this brand

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<v Speaker 1>new country across the ocean. You guys need to go

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<v Speaker 1>there next. Kind of this kind of yeah.

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<v Speaker 6>It's and that's exactly that's an exact sort of exactly

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<v Speaker 6>how he put it too.

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<v Speaker 1>He says, if the Games are to be truly international

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<v Speaker 1>in character, they must also be held in other parts

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<v Speaker 1>of the universe. The Olympics should come to Los Angeles.

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<v Speaker 1>The room is silent, No one says a word. Then

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<v Speaker 1>one delicate stands up and says, so moved, let us

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<v Speaker 1>take our beloved creation to the shores of the Pacific.

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<v Speaker 1>Someone else seconds the motion. It goes to a vote,

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<v Speaker 1>it carries unanimously. The whole group celebrated at the Coronel Palace,

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<v Speaker 1>home to the country's royal family. Billy spotted a bald

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<v Speaker 1>man speaking passionately to a group of onlookers. It was Mussolini,

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<v Speaker 1>the newly installed fascist leader of Italy. Billy wandered over

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<v Speaker 1>shook his hand. The next day, Billy had an audience

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<v Speaker 1>with Pope Pious, the eleventh of the Vatican. Pious said

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<v Speaker 1>how much he believed in the Olympic tradition, and Billy

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<v Speaker 1>kissed his ring. Billy convinces the IOC to bring its

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<v Speaker 1>temple of human idealism to the United States, And just

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<v Speaker 1>as the whole dazzling spectacle is about to launch, nine

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<v Speaker 1>black kids in northern Alabama gets swept up in a

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<v Speaker 1>miscarriage of justice so outrageous that it sparks a wave

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<v Speaker 1>of protest around the world. March is in Germany, South Africa, Cuba,

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<v Speaker 1>and the world finds itself in the same position as

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<v Speaker 1>it would four years later on the eve of the

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<v Speaker 1>Berlin Olympics, contemplating a pure competition in an impure place

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<v Speaker 1>with one difference. No one ever threatened to boycott the

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<v Speaker 1>Los Angeles Games.

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<v Speaker 7>That's in the name are the President of the United

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<v Speaker 7>stirty I have proclaim open the Olympic Games of Los

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<v Speaker 7>Angeles celebrating that tenth opiod on the modern area.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, so if the world is upset about Scottsboro in

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<v Speaker 3>nineteen thirty one, then why is there not a boycott

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<v Speaker 3>of the LA Games in thirty two?

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<v Speaker 1>I think you know, Well, the obvious reason is the

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<v Speaker 1>nature of American transgressions in civil rights are on the

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<v Speaker 1>surface so different from the nature of Nazi transgressions. American

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<v Speaker 1>transgressions are three hundred years old. They're embedded in the

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<v Speaker 1>kind of culture of the country. And I can't stress

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<v Speaker 1>this enough. They involve black people, and it's just it

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<v Speaker 1>is simply the case and continues to be the case

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<v Speaker 1>in some sense that a transgression against a black person

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<v Speaker 1>is not considered the same as a transgression against a

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<v Speaker 1>white person.

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<v Speaker 3>Part of the difference is that Nazism is a new thing,

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<v Speaker 3>whereas what's happening in Alabama is just not new at all.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, what's important is it's because it wasn't it wasn't

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<v Speaker 1>a one off. Right, why does America go up and

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<v Speaker 1>the black community particular gets so up in arms about

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<v Speaker 1>George Floyd because it had happened too many times? Right,

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<v Speaker 1>And Scott's part is kind of like that. There's been

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<v Speaker 1>a steady drumbeat of this kind of stuff coming out

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<v Speaker 1>of the South, and there's you know, the world seizes

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<v Speaker 1>on that because they're like it can't, can't keep doing this.

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<v Speaker 1>It wasn't system malfunction. It was system function. That's a

0:15:20.720 --> 0:15:23.360
<v Speaker 1>lot more kind of a outrageous I don't think you

0:15:23.360 --> 0:15:26.400
<v Speaker 1>could make sense of what happened with the Scottsboro Boys

0:15:26.480 --> 0:15:29.080
<v Speaker 1>unless you take a step back and look at the

0:15:29.120 --> 0:15:33.520
<v Speaker 1>Alabama Constitution. I mean, look at the kind of legal

0:15:33.520 --> 0:15:36.240
<v Speaker 1>infrastructure that was in place in Alabama at the time.

0:15:38.400 --> 0:15:42.320
<v Speaker 1>So why did the LA Games escape moral scrutiny. It's puzzling.

0:15:42.880 --> 0:15:45.280
<v Speaker 1>Maybe it's as simple as the fact that the world

0:15:45.360 --> 0:15:48.560
<v Speaker 1>holds America to a different standard than everyone else. If

0:15:48.600 --> 0:15:51.520
<v Speaker 1>you're a young upstart of a country, you get away

0:15:51.560 --> 0:15:54.680
<v Speaker 1>with more. Or maybe the world cares less about crimes

0:15:54.720 --> 0:15:58.360
<v Speaker 1>against black people than it does about crimes against white people.

0:15:58.760 --> 0:16:01.400
<v Speaker 1>Or maybe the Nazis were in the Olympics so much

0:16:01.440 --> 0:16:04.400
<v Speaker 1>about Nazism that it was really easy to see the

0:16:04.440 --> 0:16:08.120
<v Speaker 1>contradiction between the Games and its host in a way

0:16:08.560 --> 0:16:12.320
<v Speaker 1>that didn't seem as obvious with the LA Olympics. Or

0:16:12.360 --> 0:16:16.240
<v Speaker 1>maybe it's all three, but Scottsborough was not some strange

0:16:16.320 --> 0:16:20.920
<v Speaker 1>outlying event. It touched a raw nerve because people understood

0:16:21.080 --> 0:16:24.360
<v Speaker 1>that it was typical. It was how the South worked.

0:16:24.960 --> 0:16:29.720
<v Speaker 1>Discrimination was baked right into American law. I called up

0:16:29.720 --> 0:16:32.800
<v Speaker 1>a law professor at the University of Alabama, Susan Hammill,

0:16:33.040 --> 0:16:36.200
<v Speaker 1>and the first thing she brought up was Alabama's state

0:16:36.280 --> 0:16:39.160
<v Speaker 1>constitution at the time, which had been rewritten in nineteen

0:16:39.160 --> 0:16:43.000
<v Speaker 1>oh one, with one thing in mind. There was no.

0:16:44.880 --> 0:16:48.480
<v Speaker 8>Doubt as to what the intent was.

0:16:49.200 --> 0:16:52.200
<v Speaker 1>As one delegate said, they were driven by quote, the

0:16:52.240 --> 0:16:56.560
<v Speaker 1>necessity of relieving the black belt of the incubus resting

0:16:56.600 --> 0:17:00.360
<v Speaker 1>on it. Another delegate was more blunt.

0:17:00.080 --> 0:17:04.119
<v Speaker 8>We are here to get rid of the nigger.

0:17:05.080 --> 0:17:08.800
<v Speaker 1>The fifteenth Amendment to the US Constitution bars states from

0:17:08.880 --> 0:17:11.679
<v Speaker 1>denying people the right to vote, So the framers of

0:17:11.720 --> 0:17:16.480
<v Speaker 1>the Alabama Constitution devised a bunch of workarounds. First, a

0:17:16.600 --> 0:17:19.800
<v Speaker 1>poll tax. You had to pay a dollar fifty to vote,

0:17:19.840 --> 0:17:21.960
<v Speaker 1>which was a lot of money back then. Right there,

0:17:22.119 --> 0:17:24.479
<v Speaker 1>you've gotten rid of a lot of sharecroppers. But they

0:17:24.560 --> 0:17:27.760
<v Speaker 1>kept going, adding every obstacle they could think of.

0:17:28.880 --> 0:17:35.200
<v Speaker 8>They had to own property, there were literacy tests, and

0:17:35.359 --> 0:17:41.560
<v Speaker 8>there was the overall discretion of the white voting registrars.

0:17:42.000 --> 0:17:47.600
<v Speaker 8>The voting registrars in terms of who was actually registering folks,

0:17:48.000 --> 0:17:50.879
<v Speaker 8>had a great deal of discretion. If you had a

0:17:50.880 --> 0:17:55.240
<v Speaker 8>white person that kind of met the requirements but also

0:17:55.359 --> 0:17:57.840
<v Speaker 8>maybe didn't, they could get waved through.

0:17:58.600 --> 0:18:01.719
<v Speaker 1>The nineteen oh one Alabama Constitution would end up being

0:18:01.760 --> 0:18:06.040
<v Speaker 1>the longest constitution in the world three hundred and eighty

0:18:06.080 --> 0:18:09.960
<v Speaker 1>eight thousand, eight hundred and eighty two words, about eight

0:18:10.040 --> 0:18:13.480
<v Speaker 1>hundred and fifty times longer than the US Constitution.

0:18:14.400 --> 0:18:18.320
<v Speaker 8>When African Americans went to register after the nineteen oh

0:18:18.320 --> 0:18:21.800
<v Speaker 8>one constitution was ratified, they were just turned away.

0:18:22.520 --> 0:18:25.199
<v Speaker 1>In nineteen hundred, there were one hundred and eighty one thousand,

0:18:25.560 --> 0:18:29.160
<v Speaker 1>four hundred and seventy one African American men of voting age.

0:18:29.880 --> 0:18:33.800
<v Speaker 1>After the constitution, fewer than three thousand of those men

0:18:33.840 --> 0:18:34.439
<v Speaker 1>could vote.

0:18:35.000 --> 0:18:37.960
<v Speaker 8>You know, we did not have a black electorate in

0:18:38.040 --> 0:18:42.320
<v Speaker 8>this state worth speaking of until the nineteen seventies.

0:18:44.640 --> 0:18:48.800
<v Speaker 1>It gets worse. In nineteen oh two, a black janitor

0:18:49.040 --> 0:18:53.439
<v Speaker 1>named Jackson Giles file suit against the state. Jackson says,

0:18:53.640 --> 0:18:56.360
<v Speaker 1>I meet all the requirements, I can read, I understand

0:18:56.359 --> 0:18:59.600
<v Speaker 1>the constitution, I paid my pull tax, I own property,

0:19:00.040 --> 0:19:03.080
<v Speaker 1>but they still won't let me vote. The case goes

0:19:03.160 --> 0:19:06.560
<v Speaker 1>all the way to the Supreme Court in nineteen oh three, where,

0:19:07.000 --> 0:19:11.120
<v Speaker 1>writing for the majority, the legendary Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes,

0:19:11.359 --> 0:19:13.640
<v Speaker 1>one of the greatest legal minds the Supreme Court has

0:19:13.640 --> 0:19:18.760
<v Speaker 1>ever produced. Rites and I'm not making this up. The defendant,

0:19:18.840 --> 0:19:23.120
<v Speaker 1>mister Jackson, alleges that the state of Alabama has constructed

0:19:23.119 --> 0:19:26.080
<v Speaker 1>a voting system that is in open violation of the

0:19:26.119 --> 0:19:29.959
<v Speaker 1>Constitution of the US. But he is asking to be

0:19:30.040 --> 0:19:33.320
<v Speaker 1>registered to vote under the very same rules that he

0:19:33.480 --> 0:19:36.960
<v Speaker 1>says are an open violation of the Constitution of the

0:19:37.040 --> 0:19:40.600
<v Speaker 1>United States. If we rule in his favor, we are

0:19:40.640 --> 0:19:44.280
<v Speaker 1>complicit in the violation. It's one of the all time

0:19:44.320 --> 0:19:46.880
<v Speaker 1>great Supreme Court catch twenty twos.

0:19:48.400 --> 0:19:54.720
<v Speaker 8>Justice Holmes disingenuously said, Oh, if Jackson Giles wants a remedy,

0:19:54.800 --> 0:19:57.320
<v Speaker 8>he needs to seek his member of Congress to do

0:19:57.400 --> 0:20:01.440
<v Speaker 8>something about it. But Jackson and Giles had been denied

0:20:01.440 --> 0:20:05.960
<v Speaker 8>the right to vote for any member of Congress.

0:20:06.640 --> 0:20:09.400
<v Speaker 1>Mister Giles, if you don't like the system that keeps

0:20:09.440 --> 0:20:11.560
<v Speaker 1>you from voting, then vote to change it.

0:20:12.920 --> 0:20:16.480
<v Speaker 8>The US Supreme Court, like the rest of the country

0:20:16.960 --> 0:20:21.080
<v Speaker 8>just wanted to wash their hands of If I can

0:20:21.320 --> 0:20:23.399
<v Speaker 8>put it this way, the dirty South.

0:20:24.960 --> 0:20:28.439
<v Speaker 1>Now we can understand what happened in Scottsboro. The jury

0:20:28.480 --> 0:20:32.199
<v Speaker 1>pool in Alabama is drawn from the voting pool, and

0:20:32.280 --> 0:20:35.040
<v Speaker 1>since the voters are basically all white, then the juries

0:20:35.080 --> 0:20:38.040
<v Speaker 1>are all white, which means that when nine black kids

0:20:38.040 --> 0:20:40.679
<v Speaker 1>are accused of some bogus crime on the Chattanooga to

0:20:40.720 --> 0:20:45.800
<v Speaker 1>Memphis train, those nine kids are out of luck. All told,

0:20:46.160 --> 0:20:48.840
<v Speaker 1>the Scottsboro boys would end up serving more than one

0:20:48.960 --> 0:20:54.040
<v Speaker 1>hundred years behind bars for something that never happened. And

0:20:54.080 --> 0:20:57.159
<v Speaker 1>in Giles v. Harris, the Supreme Court of the United

0:20:57.200 --> 0:21:02.639
<v Speaker 1>States signs off on the whole range. And so do

0:21:02.680 --> 0:21:06.280
<v Speaker 1>you study that case in at law school in Alabama.

0:21:06.880 --> 0:21:08.480
<v Speaker 8>No, isn't that a shame?

0:21:09.960 --> 0:21:15.720
<v Speaker 1>Scottsboro was an embarrassment, an outrage, exposing the very dark

0:21:15.800 --> 0:21:19.159
<v Speaker 1>heart of the country that was about to host the

0:21:19.200 --> 0:21:23.760
<v Speaker 1>purest of athletic spectacles. If the world shouldn't have gone

0:21:23.760 --> 0:21:28.200
<v Speaker 1>to Berlin in nineteen thirty six for moral reasons, then

0:21:28.200 --> 0:21:30.639
<v Speaker 1>the world shouldn't have gone to Los Angeles in nineteen

0:21:30.680 --> 0:21:42.320
<v Speaker 1>thirty two either. Where can you go in the lead

0:21:42.400 --> 0:21:44.720
<v Speaker 1>up to the Berlin Games, a group known as the

0:21:44.760 --> 0:21:47.800
<v Speaker 1>Jewish Labor Committee set out to solve the problem of

0:21:47.840 --> 0:21:51.240
<v Speaker 1>what to do about impure places and peer competitions. The

0:21:51.359 --> 0:21:53.879
<v Speaker 1>organizers were the same people who had been up in

0:21:53.960 --> 0:21:57.200
<v Speaker 1>arms over the Scottsboro Boys four years earlier, who helped

0:21:57.240 --> 0:22:00.600
<v Speaker 1>fund their legal defense, who were fighting for the rights

0:22:00.640 --> 0:22:05.399
<v Speaker 1>of working Americans. Their hands were clean. They called their

0:22:05.440 --> 0:22:09.800
<v Speaker 1>games the World Labor Athletic Carnival. It was held in

0:22:09.800 --> 0:22:12.639
<v Speaker 1>New York City on Randall's Island in August of nineteen

0:22:12.680 --> 0:22:15.560
<v Speaker 1>thirty six, overlapping with the last two days of the

0:22:15.560 --> 0:22:20.760
<v Speaker 1>Berlin Olympics. Invitations went out. The carnival will function as

0:22:20.800 --> 0:22:23.880
<v Speaker 1>a show of protest against the iron heel of Nazism.

0:22:24.480 --> 0:22:27.920
<v Speaker 1>New York Mayor Fiorlo LaGuardia signed up to be co chair.

0:22:28.240 --> 0:22:30.760
<v Speaker 1>The Governor of New York agreed to hand out prizes.

0:22:31.000 --> 0:22:33.720
<v Speaker 1>Proceeds from the event will go to supporting the anti

0:22:33.840 --> 0:22:38.280
<v Speaker 1>Nazi movement end eventually to helping Jews escape from Eastern Europe.

0:22:39.359 --> 0:22:43.280
<v Speaker 1>The Labour Games represent the first solution to the dilemma

0:22:43.359 --> 0:22:48.080
<v Speaker 1>of the Olympics. Carve out a little corner of ideological purity,

0:22:48.560 --> 0:22:53.240
<v Speaker 1>don't compromise align your political values with the ethic of

0:22:53.400 --> 0:22:58.520
<v Speaker 1>amateur sport. Be an absolutist. Ed Gordon was there. He

0:22:58.560 --> 0:22:59.959
<v Speaker 1>was the winner of the long jump in the night

0:23:00.040 --> 0:23:04.080
<v Speaker 1>nineteen thirty two Olympics. George Veroff, the so called jumping Janitor,

0:23:04.160 --> 0:23:07.040
<v Speaker 1>was there too. His gold medal jump beat the winning

0:23:07.080 --> 0:23:09.199
<v Speaker 1>mark in Berlin by a full inch and a half.

0:23:09.400 --> 0:23:12.240
<v Speaker 1>The women's forty yard dash was won by a member

0:23:12.240 --> 0:23:17.720
<v Speaker 1>of the dressmakers Union, Wanda Oldzuska. Another Oldzuska Mitzi, competed

0:23:17.720 --> 0:23:20.640
<v Speaker 1>with her on the winning relay team. When reporter asked

0:23:20.680 --> 0:23:25.439
<v Speaker 1>Mitzi how she trained, she responded, oh, picketing and throwing

0:23:25.480 --> 0:23:32.000
<v Speaker 1>stones through windows, and nobody came to watch. The stands

0:23:32.040 --> 0:23:37.080
<v Speaker 1>were half empty. Why well. The Games were supposed to

0:23:37.160 --> 0:23:40.240
<v Speaker 1>draw their support from the labor movement, but the Jewish

0:23:40.280 --> 0:23:44.320
<v Speaker 1>Labor Committee was an anti communist socialist group, so some

0:23:44.400 --> 0:23:48.320
<v Speaker 1>communists felt left out and stayed home. Then came a

0:23:48.359 --> 0:23:52.159
<v Speaker 1>second disagreement, this time between the American Socialist Party, the

0:23:52.200 --> 0:23:56.600
<v Speaker 1>Old Guard, and some upstart progressives led by Norman Thomas.

0:23:57.400 --> 0:23:59.520
<v Speaker 1>Let me just read to you from a History of

0:23:59.520 --> 0:24:04.199
<v Speaker 1>the Labor Games by Edward Shapiro. The struggle came to

0:24:04.280 --> 0:24:07.800
<v Speaker 1>a head at the party's annual convention in nineteen thirty

0:24:07.840 --> 0:24:11.480
<v Speaker 1>six in Cleveland. When the Olguard left, the party took

0:24:11.600 --> 0:24:14.680
<v Speaker 1>the magazine The New Leader with them and created the

0:24:14.680 --> 0:24:19.240
<v Speaker 1>Social Democratic Federation. The New Leader viewed Randall's Island as

0:24:19.359 --> 0:24:24.560
<v Speaker 1>virtually a New York Social Democratic Federation, event copiously discussing

0:24:24.600 --> 0:24:27.919
<v Speaker 1>its progress from its inception in May through the Games

0:24:27.920 --> 0:24:32.919
<v Speaker 1>themselves in August. The pro Norman Thomas Socialist Call, in contrast,

0:24:33.359 --> 0:24:36.800
<v Speaker 1>merely printed a pro forma announcement of the Games. More

0:24:36.840 --> 0:24:40.280
<v Speaker 1>to its liking, was a track in gymnastic demonstration on

0:24:40.359 --> 0:24:45.280
<v Speaker 1>July fourth, nineteen thirty six, in Taberville, Ohio, near Cleveland,

0:24:45.840 --> 0:24:50.240
<v Speaker 1>sponsored by the Czechoslovak Socialist Federation of America, the Czechoslovak

0:24:50.400 --> 0:24:53.760
<v Speaker 1>Labor Gymnastic Union, the American Workingmen's Socle of New York,

0:24:53.800 --> 0:24:58.840
<v Speaker 1>the Workingmen's Gymnastic Association, and the Workers Sports League of America.

0:25:01.280 --> 0:25:04.679
<v Speaker 1>This is the problem with the pursuit of purity. At

0:25:04.680 --> 0:25:09.080
<v Speaker 1>a certain point, it starts to get absurd because the

0:25:09.119 --> 0:25:12.159
<v Speaker 1>Communists get upset of the Socialists, and then the Socialists

0:25:12.160 --> 0:25:14.880
<v Speaker 1>get upset at each other, and sooner or later, your

0:25:14.960 --> 0:25:18.359
<v Speaker 1>athletic spectacle that was intended to showcase the greatest talent

0:25:18.400 --> 0:25:22.960
<v Speaker 1>in the world is in Taberville, Ohio, under the aegis

0:25:23.040 --> 0:25:28.600
<v Speaker 1>of the Czechoslovak Socialist Federation of America. I mean, with

0:25:28.680 --> 0:25:32.359
<v Speaker 1>all due respect to the Czechoslovak Socialist Federation of America.

0:25:33.200 --> 0:25:40.920
<v Speaker 1>Who wants to watch that? So what's the solution? Option two?

0:25:41.640 --> 0:25:45.840
<v Speaker 1>Take that absolutism down a notch. Be willing to compromise.

0:25:47.080 --> 0:25:50.560
<v Speaker 1>Remember Charles Cheryl, the American delegate who fought so hard

0:25:50.600 --> 0:25:53.720
<v Speaker 1>for America to stay in the Berlin Olympics. Just before

0:25:53.720 --> 0:25:56.800
<v Speaker 1>the games, someone sent him a news clipping about the

0:25:56.880 --> 0:26:00.399
<v Speaker 1>killing of a Jewish footballer who had apparently been dragged

0:26:00.440 --> 0:26:03.159
<v Speaker 1>off the field by Nazis in the middle of a match.

0:26:03.800 --> 0:26:08.479
<v Speaker 1>Cheryl wrote back your September twenty three letter about the

0:26:08.520 --> 0:26:12.359
<v Speaker 1>Prague press story of a Jewish football player killed at

0:26:12.440 --> 0:26:17.919
<v Speaker 1>Ratisports Silesia arrived today. If true, it is as bad

0:26:18.000 --> 0:26:24.040
<v Speaker 1>as Negro lynchings in our South. Cheryl had ideals. He

0:26:24.160 --> 0:26:28.639
<v Speaker 1>was perfectly willing to compromise around the edges. Yes, the

0:26:28.680 --> 0:26:32.400
<v Speaker 1>American South is a nasty place, but so what show

0:26:32.440 --> 0:26:35.920
<v Speaker 1>me a country without nasty places. You have to hold

0:26:35.920 --> 0:26:39.560
<v Speaker 1>a pure competition in an impure place, because there aren't

0:26:39.560 --> 0:26:44.520
<v Speaker 1>any pure places. Here's how Cheryl finishes the letter, answering

0:26:44.560 --> 0:26:47.280
<v Speaker 1>your clipping. Let me ask you what you would have

0:26:47.320 --> 0:26:51.040
<v Speaker 1>said if any foreign team had boycotted our Los Angeles

0:26:51.280 --> 0:26:54.240
<v Speaker 1>nineteen thirty two games because of our negro lynchings in

0:26:54.280 --> 0:26:58.800
<v Speaker 1>the South. Oh, right, the endless boycott bet And I

0:26:58.920 --> 0:26:59.600
<v Speaker 1>thought about this.

0:27:00.480 --> 0:27:04.960
<v Speaker 3>I think you're right that that probably if you boycott

0:27:04.960 --> 0:27:06.919
<v Speaker 3>thirty six, you also have to boycott thirty two. And

0:27:06.960 --> 0:27:09.320
<v Speaker 3>then you're looking at there is no Olympics in nineteen

0:27:09.359 --> 0:27:11.760
<v Speaker 3>forty because it was planned for Tokyo, and then obviously

0:27:11.800 --> 0:27:14.760
<v Speaker 3>World War II cancels that, and not in forty four either,

0:27:15.200 --> 0:27:18.080
<v Speaker 3>So then that's a huge stretch of time. It's what

0:27:18.160 --> 0:27:20.639
<v Speaker 3>is that it's twenty years, twenty years.

0:27:20.520 --> 0:27:23.600
<v Speaker 1>With the Olympics, twenty eight to forty eight.

0:27:24.240 --> 0:27:27.400
<v Speaker 3>So could the Olympic movement have survived twenty years of

0:27:27.400 --> 0:27:29.879
<v Speaker 3>no Olympics? Probably not.

0:27:30.760 --> 0:27:34.520
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, So it starts to seem like you can only

0:27:34.600 --> 0:27:39.040
<v Speaker 1>keep the Olympics alive at a cost. After the Berlin Games,

0:27:39.160 --> 0:27:41.800
<v Speaker 1>the Germans put out a report and there's a quote

0:27:41.800 --> 0:27:46.200
<v Speaker 1>on the title page goes like this, sporting and chivalrous

0:27:46.240 --> 0:27:50.760
<v Speaker 1>competition awakens the best human qualities. It does not sever,

0:27:51.000 --> 0:27:54.840
<v Speaker 1>but on the contrary, unites the opponents in mutual understanding

0:27:54.920 --> 0:27:58.399
<v Speaker 1>and reciprocal respect. It also helps to strengthen the bonds

0:27:58.440 --> 0:28:02.520
<v Speaker 1>of peace between the nations. May the Olympic flame therefore

0:28:03.160 --> 0:28:09.800
<v Speaker 1>never be extinguished, Signed Adolf Hitler. That's where you end

0:28:09.880 --> 0:28:13.080
<v Speaker 1>up when you casually mix the purer and impure your

0:28:13.119 --> 0:28:17.680
<v Speaker 1>ideals in the mouth of a monster. Idealism does not

0:28:17.760 --> 0:28:22.080
<v Speaker 1>survive the journey to an impure place. So where does

0:28:22.080 --> 0:28:35.359
<v Speaker 1>all this confusion leave you? Option three? Billy Garland in

0:28:35.400 --> 0:28:38.520
<v Speaker 1>the fall of nineteen eighteen, Los Angeles was in a

0:28:38.600 --> 0:28:41.840
<v Speaker 1>rough patch. The war in Europe was taking its toll

0:28:41.880 --> 0:28:45.360
<v Speaker 1>on the economy. The nineteen eighteen flew, which it claimed

0:28:45.440 --> 0:28:48.080
<v Speaker 1>millions of lives around the world, had shut down the

0:28:48.120 --> 0:28:52.280
<v Speaker 1>city streets. Tourism, the great life blood of Los Angeles,

0:28:52.440 --> 0:28:55.960
<v Speaker 1>was at a standstill. Billy Garland and his friends needed

0:28:55.960 --> 0:28:58.560
<v Speaker 1>a plan to get the city back on track. So

0:28:58.680 --> 0:29:01.920
<v Speaker 1>Billy calls a meeting in his office gathers together the

0:29:01.960 --> 0:29:03.000
<v Speaker 1>power brokers.

0:29:03.320 --> 0:29:06.160
<v Speaker 6>They were meeting there basically to try to figure out

0:29:06.200 --> 0:29:12.160
<v Speaker 6>ways to uh uh promote Los Angeles above all, to

0:29:11.480 --> 0:29:15.000
<v Speaker 6>uh avoid future lulsome business.

0:29:15.000 --> 0:29:16.200
<v Speaker 1>Barry Siegel again.

0:29:16.800 --> 0:29:20.560
<v Speaker 6>And somewhere in that meeting came up the idea of

0:29:20.960 --> 0:29:24.240
<v Speaker 6>bidding for and staging the Olympics as a way to

0:29:24.280 --> 0:29:27.560
<v Speaker 6>put La on the map uh and draw investors.

0:29:28.120 --> 0:29:31.200
<v Speaker 1>The third way to resolve the dilemma of the Olympic

0:29:31.280 --> 0:29:34.520
<v Speaker 1>Games is just to be a realist. You say, whatever,

0:29:34.920 --> 0:29:38.280
<v Speaker 1>let's not complicate things. The games are really useful, and

0:29:38.320 --> 0:29:40.640
<v Speaker 1>if you play our cards right, we can all get rich.

0:29:43.280 --> 0:29:46.920
<v Speaker 1>So Billy got his games here he is announcing.

0:29:46.440 --> 0:29:53.440
<v Speaker 5>Them on the ship. That one happened to arm O

0:29:53.760 --> 0:29:57.880
<v Speaker 5>Faulki be the limit game without a day, the one

0:29:57.960 --> 0:30:02.320
<v Speaker 5>living heritage from those different times.

0:30:02.840 --> 0:30:06.800
<v Speaker 1>Billy didn't write those lines. Believe me, someone at IOC

0:30:06.960 --> 0:30:10.560
<v Speaker 1>headquarters in Switzerland did. But I'm guessing this is the

0:30:10.600 --> 0:30:11.840
<v Speaker 1>part Billy did write.

0:30:12.520 --> 0:30:15.120
<v Speaker 5>Many thousands of visitors to these games will come to

0:30:15.280 --> 0:30:18.520
<v Speaker 5>Los Angeles and California from our thoughts to the globe

0:30:18.960 --> 0:30:22.120
<v Speaker 5>and from every portion of our country. Let me add

0:30:22.120 --> 0:30:26.720
<v Speaker 5>that California recognized her responsibility as hosts. The stranger within

0:30:26.760 --> 0:30:28.440
<v Speaker 5>her gates will be treated to.

0:30:28.440 --> 0:30:30.280
<v Speaker 1>That cordial hospitality and welcome.

0:30:30.800 --> 0:30:34.520
<v Speaker 3>So tradigal of our wonderful state, bring.

0:30:34.320 --> 0:30:39.560
<v Speaker 1>The kids stay at one of my hotels.

0:30:36.760 --> 0:30:42.040
<v Speaker 5>To California, hosts of the world for the sixteen day

0:30:42.120 --> 0:30:46.440
<v Speaker 5>period beginning on July. Period the Witness for Yourself, the

0:30:46.480 --> 0:30:52.480
<v Speaker 5>aldermate and highest manifestations of modern sportsmanship known to mankind.

0:30:55.120 --> 0:30:59.320
<v Speaker 1>Billy builds a magnificent stadium, the Coliseum, just south of downtown.

0:31:00.040 --> 0:31:03.800
<v Speaker 1>He builds the first true athletes village up in Baldwin Hills.

0:31:04.520 --> 0:31:07.120
<v Speaker 1>Billy recruits the two biggest movie stars of the day,

0:31:07.520 --> 0:31:11.960
<v Speaker 1>Douglas Fairbanks and Mary Pickford, to be his spokespeople. Billy

0:31:12.000 --> 0:31:15.280
<v Speaker 1>creates a spectacle. Billy even makes a profit on the

0:31:15.320 --> 0:31:19.800
<v Speaker 1>Games a million dollars. A few years later, Billy would

0:31:19.840 --> 0:31:22.040
<v Speaker 1>be all in favor of the Olympics in Berlin, but

0:31:22.160 --> 0:31:26.960
<v Speaker 1>not because he'd performed some elaborate political analysis. Please more

0:31:27.080 --> 0:31:30.200
<v Speaker 1>like love the kaiser Af hotel? Can we have one

0:31:30.200 --> 0:31:34.320
<v Speaker 1>in Hollywood? How much do the Nazis look to thirty

0:31:34.320 --> 0:31:38.600
<v Speaker 1>two for kind of inspiration on I mean they take

0:31:38.680 --> 0:31:41.160
<v Speaker 1>that kind of that notion of the Games as a

0:31:41.200 --> 0:31:43.680
<v Speaker 1>spectacle and run with it.

0:31:44.320 --> 0:31:47.120
<v Speaker 6>They were inspired by the thirty two Olympics very much.

0:31:47.160 --> 0:31:49.680
<v Speaker 6>So it was my thirty two Olympics for a model

0:31:51.480 --> 0:31:55.280
<v Speaker 6>model for them. In that way. Billy Garland and his

0:31:55.480 --> 0:31:57.200
<v Speaker 6>game showed them the way.

0:31:58.160 --> 0:32:00.920
<v Speaker 1>There was a point deep into this series where I

0:32:01.000 --> 0:32:04.560
<v Speaker 1>found myself more and more sympathetic to Billy Garland, to

0:32:04.600 --> 0:32:07.600
<v Speaker 1>the guy who just made things work. Ben never went

0:32:07.640 --> 0:32:12.840
<v Speaker 1>that far. We argued about it. I started this whole

0:32:14.040 --> 0:32:19.240
<v Speaker 1>investigation way back when believing that we should have brought

0:32:19.440 --> 0:32:24.960
<v Speaker 1>boycott it in thirty six. Now I'm not sure. I'm

0:32:24.960 --> 0:32:26.840
<v Speaker 1>not sure I agree, And now I think I'm glad

0:32:26.880 --> 0:32:30.000
<v Speaker 1>we went. Everyone involved in this debate back then and

0:32:30.040 --> 0:32:34.640
<v Speaker 1>everyone involved in debate like this today. The core of

0:32:34.680 --> 0:32:37.160
<v Speaker 1>all of it is everyone takes sports really really really

0:32:37.200 --> 0:32:40.000
<v Speaker 1>really really really seriously. And I kind of realized halfway

0:32:40.000 --> 0:32:41.480
<v Speaker 1>through that I'm one of those people.

0:32:42.080 --> 0:32:44.080
<v Speaker 3>You're a person who thinks sports really matter.

0:32:44.680 --> 0:32:47.360
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I didn't think I was. I was like, I

0:32:47.400 --> 0:32:50.200
<v Speaker 1>thought I was the guy who said, why are we

0:32:50.280 --> 0:32:53.479
<v Speaker 1>spending all this time and attention arguing about, you know,

0:32:53.800 --> 0:32:55.520
<v Speaker 1>running a race against each other? And then I'm like,

0:32:55.560 --> 0:32:57.640
<v Speaker 1>wait a minute, I am that person who cares passionately

0:32:57.640 --> 0:32:59.600
<v Speaker 1>about the people running out to race each other.

0:33:00.120 --> 0:33:02.920
<v Speaker 3>With your foil me as a person who is just

0:33:03.040 --> 0:33:06.120
<v Speaker 3>sort of like unable to recognize even an Olympic level runner.

0:33:07.200 --> 0:33:10.000
<v Speaker 1>And so, like you know, the question we have to

0:33:10.000 --> 0:33:12.680
<v Speaker 1>ask ourselves is if we want a boycott in thirty six,

0:33:13.320 --> 0:33:16.760
<v Speaker 1>do we really want an Olympics Because the only way

0:33:16.760 --> 0:33:19.320
<v Speaker 1>to have in Olympics is to is to hold your

0:33:19.320 --> 0:33:22.360
<v Speaker 1>nose from time to time. And I realized, oh, actually,

0:33:22.400 --> 0:33:24.480
<v Speaker 1>I think I'm I think I would be willing to

0:33:24.720 --> 0:33:25.280
<v Speaker 1>hold my nose.

0:33:25.400 --> 0:33:29.480
<v Speaker 3>I think though I feel in some ways like the

0:33:29.880 --> 0:33:34.160
<v Speaker 3>less intellectually curious member of this team, because I started

0:33:34.160 --> 0:33:36.480
<v Speaker 3>feeling like we should boycott the nineteen thirty six games,

0:33:36.480 --> 0:33:39.320
<v Speaker 3>and I used to feel like we shouldn't have gone

0:33:39.440 --> 0:33:42.920
<v Speaker 3>thirty six games. So I don't know what I was

0:33:42.960 --> 0:33:46.000
<v Speaker 3>really investigating then having not I guess maybe just like

0:33:46.080 --> 0:33:48.960
<v Speaker 3>to confirm my position. I think if you think sports

0:33:49.000 --> 0:33:53.240
<v Speaker 3>and the Olympics really matter, which admittedly I do love

0:33:53.280 --> 0:33:57.200
<v Speaker 3>the Olympics, but I'm not that person. I think if

0:33:57.200 --> 0:34:00.720
<v Speaker 3>you think sports really, really really matter, then it's even

0:34:00.840 --> 0:34:03.720
<v Speaker 3>more incumbent on you to boycott the nineteen thirty six

0:34:03.760 --> 0:34:06.400
<v Speaker 3>Olympics because the myth that everyone buys into is that

0:34:06.840 --> 0:34:10.839
<v Speaker 3>this is a festival celebrating the best of what makes

0:34:10.920 --> 0:34:14.319
<v Speaker 3>us human. Everybody's going to come together and try their

0:34:14.960 --> 0:34:17.799
<v Speaker 3>hardest and have a defining moment of their life in

0:34:17.880 --> 0:34:21.000
<v Speaker 3>a place with the government that can then caj all

0:34:21.040 --> 0:34:25.919
<v Speaker 3>of that moral authority and beauty and excellence and put

0:34:25.960 --> 0:34:28.239
<v Speaker 3>it in the service of their own project, which is

0:34:28.520 --> 0:34:30.920
<v Speaker 3>the defilement of what it is to be a person,

0:34:31.480 --> 0:34:34.200
<v Speaker 3>like one of the most inhumane things in the twentieth century.

0:34:34.440 --> 0:34:37.839
<v Speaker 3>So if you really think that sports matters that much,

0:34:37.880 --> 0:34:40.680
<v Speaker 3>then I think it's incumbent on you to not lend

0:34:40.719 --> 0:34:44.319
<v Speaker 3>it to that project. And not all in a way,

0:34:44.360 --> 0:34:48.040
<v Speaker 3>this is just a false question, because the IOC one

0:34:48.120 --> 0:34:50.200
<v Speaker 3>hundred percent could have moved the Olympics.

0:34:50.320 --> 0:34:55.200
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so I am incredibly skeptical of the idea that

0:34:55.719 --> 0:34:58.880
<v Speaker 1>a boycott of Berlin would have in any way have

0:35:00.480 --> 0:35:05.399
<v Speaker 1>our opposition to Nazism. My guess is the opposite would

0:35:05.400 --> 0:35:08.600
<v Speaker 1>have happened. That we would have said, Okay, we've said,

0:35:08.920 --> 0:35:11.400
<v Speaker 1>we've set our piece, we don't like the man, and

0:35:11.440 --> 0:35:13.680
<v Speaker 1>we're not going to go and participate in these little games.

0:35:14.120 --> 0:35:17.600
<v Speaker 1>And like some strikes me, you could make a completely

0:35:18.160 --> 0:35:21.680
<v Speaker 1>alternate scenario that this allows the Germans to feel like, Okay,

0:35:21.719 --> 0:35:24.120
<v Speaker 1>the rest of the world is like, that's you guys,

0:35:24.120 --> 0:35:25.719
<v Speaker 1>don't like what we're doing, We're just going to go

0:35:25.800 --> 0:35:28.520
<v Speaker 1>off on, you know, be even worse. I don't know,

0:35:28.840 --> 0:35:32.200
<v Speaker 1>I'm just not I don't buy that premise about I

0:35:32.239 --> 0:35:35.640
<v Speaker 1>never have bought that premise about symbolic acts of protest.

0:35:36.000 --> 0:35:38.160
<v Speaker 3>But don't you think that the record shows that having

0:35:38.239 --> 0:35:41.080
<v Speaker 3>the Olympics in Berlin in thirty six is helpful to

0:35:41.080 --> 0:35:43.439
<v Speaker 3>the Nazis? Like Gerbel says, this is a really big

0:35:43.480 --> 0:35:48.440
<v Speaker 3>breakthrough for US and foreign currency floods into the country.

0:35:48.560 --> 0:35:52.800
<v Speaker 1>They're happy that they got away with it. Yeah, but Ben,

0:35:52.880 --> 0:35:54.920
<v Speaker 1>on the scale of things that were happening in the

0:35:55.000 --> 0:35:58.879
<v Speaker 1>nineteen thirties that had an effect on the progress of Nazism,

0:35:59.120 --> 0:36:01.440
<v Speaker 1>this is so far down the list.

0:36:01.680 --> 0:36:04.480
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, you're right, But I still feel like the boycott

0:36:04.520 --> 0:36:07.120
<v Speaker 3>makes sense. And I agree it's incredibly low down on

0:36:07.160 --> 0:36:09.640
<v Speaker 3>the list of things that you should do in the

0:36:09.719 --> 0:36:12.360
<v Speaker 3>nineteen thirties to combat Nazism, But like, why wouldn't you

0:36:12.400 --> 0:36:15.000
<v Speaker 3>do all the things like it makes sense to do.

0:36:15.160 --> 0:36:16.680
<v Speaker 1>We're not doing any of the other thing. This is

0:36:16.840 --> 0:36:19.040
<v Speaker 1>we're not doing the other things. This is why I

0:36:19.080 --> 0:36:25.680
<v Speaker 1>get so I lose patience with this kind of precious

0:36:25.800 --> 0:36:29.399
<v Speaker 1>view of our moral responsibilities because it misses the point.

0:36:30.120 --> 0:36:33.239
<v Speaker 1>If you spend more than five minutes taking a look

0:36:33.280 --> 0:36:36.560
<v Speaker 1>at the way that Dorothy Thompson does and examining what's

0:36:36.560 --> 0:36:39.040
<v Speaker 1>going on there, you realize this is a deeply evil

0:36:39.040 --> 0:36:41.680
<v Speaker 1>man who we need to do something about, right, something

0:36:42.280 --> 0:36:45.840
<v Speaker 1>real about My point is, what kind of the games

0:36:45.960 --> 0:36:50.120
<v Speaker 1>is not real? It's just I'm sorry. It's a substitute

0:36:50.120 --> 0:36:52.040
<v Speaker 1>for actual behavior.

0:36:52.560 --> 0:36:55.520
<v Speaker 3>But it doesn't need to be a substitute. It's a

0:36:55.560 --> 0:36:57.920
<v Speaker 3>substitute if you take that action in bad faith.

0:36:58.800 --> 0:37:02.160
<v Speaker 1>But I think, I think any kind of useful reading

0:37:02.200 --> 0:37:05.120
<v Speaker 1>of human nature suggests that nine times out of ten,

0:37:05.680 --> 0:37:09.719
<v Speaker 1>symbolic actions discharge our responsibility, they don't turbo charge them.

0:37:09.760 --> 0:37:12.960
<v Speaker 3>I one hundred percent agree with that. However, what is

0:37:13.000 --> 0:37:17.000
<v Speaker 3>the connection between the daily reality that most of us

0:37:17.080 --> 0:37:20.880
<v Speaker 3>live and the systems level action? And the answer can't

0:37:20.880 --> 0:37:23.279
<v Speaker 3>be that there is no connection. That one of these

0:37:23.280 --> 0:37:25.920
<v Speaker 3>things happens in like the ether, and the other one

0:37:25.960 --> 0:37:27.759
<v Speaker 3>happens on the ground, and we can do whatever we

0:37:27.800 --> 0:37:29.799
<v Speaker 3>want on the ground because the thing is in the

0:37:29.800 --> 0:37:31.799
<v Speaker 3>ether is going to take care of itself, like there

0:37:31.880 --> 0:37:35.360
<v Speaker 3>is some obscure bridge between those two levels of existence.

0:37:35.840 --> 0:37:38.880
<v Speaker 3>And it might be that you yourself run for office

0:37:38.960 --> 0:37:41.640
<v Speaker 3>and then try and change things. But like, that isn't

0:37:41.640 --> 0:37:45.359
<v Speaker 3>the only way you can affect these issues, and one

0:37:45.400 --> 0:37:50.000
<v Speaker 3>of the ways, plausibly many boycotts absolute nonsense. A boycott

0:37:50.000 --> 0:37:52.120
<v Speaker 3>of the thirty six games based on what the Olympics

0:37:52.160 --> 0:37:54.239
<v Speaker 3>do for the nazis like that one probably would have

0:37:54.280 --> 0:37:58.000
<v Speaker 3>meant something. There are two sets of morally disingenuous actions,

0:37:58.200 --> 0:38:00.320
<v Speaker 3>one that actually happened and one that were just describing

0:38:00.400 --> 0:38:04.719
<v Speaker 3>that could have happened. And I would just prefer that

0:38:04.760 --> 0:38:08.720
<v Speaker 3>one the one in not going, maybe for like complicated reasons,

0:38:08.719 --> 0:38:10.319
<v Speaker 3>and then hope that it puts the right kind of

0:38:10.320 --> 0:38:13.839
<v Speaker 3>pressure on this sort of ethereal systems level realm which

0:38:13.880 --> 0:38:15.480
<v Speaker 3>is not taking the action it needs to do.

0:38:18.719 --> 0:38:29.000
<v Speaker 1>Ben and I do not agree three options absolutism, soft idealism, realism.

0:38:29.080 --> 0:38:33.600
<v Speaker 1>Are you going to fight, compromise or shrug? Is your

0:38:33.600 --> 0:38:39.480
<v Speaker 1>true north? Dorothy Thompson, Every Brandage or Billy Garland. The

0:38:39.560 --> 0:38:43.520
<v Speaker 1>absolutists end up in Taberville, playing to an empty stadium,

0:38:43.600 --> 0:38:47.320
<v Speaker 1>The quasi idealists end up with Hitler stealing their thunder,

0:38:47.680 --> 0:38:50.520
<v Speaker 1>and the realists give us the games, but with so

0:38:50.600 --> 0:38:54.160
<v Speaker 1>much Coca Cola and memorial t shirts and mixed use

0:38:54.320 --> 0:38:58.080
<v Speaker 1>urban construction that we forget why we wanted the Olympics

0:38:58.440 --> 0:39:08.640
<v Speaker 1>into first place. The last interview Ben and I did

0:39:08.680 --> 0:39:12.759
<v Speaker 1>for this series was in Los Angeles at UCLA with

0:39:12.880 --> 0:39:16.920
<v Speaker 1>Millan Tiff, that wonderful triple jumper who knew Jesse Owens.

0:39:17.280 --> 0:39:20.640
<v Speaker 1>It was hot, one of those hazy Los Angeles mornings.

0:39:21.040 --> 0:39:25.600
<v Speaker 1>A helicopter was hovering somewhere overhead. We were standing on

0:39:25.640 --> 0:39:28.759
<v Speaker 1>the track at Drake Stadium, right by the long jump pit.

0:39:29.400 --> 0:39:32.080
<v Speaker 1>They were a handful of athletes milling about, and then

0:39:32.320 --> 0:39:35.319
<v Speaker 1>a young woman came running past us. She was doing

0:39:35.360 --> 0:39:39.120
<v Speaker 1>two hundred meter intervals halfway around the track, hard with

0:39:39.200 --> 0:39:44.719
<v Speaker 1>a jog recovery, around and around and around, and she

0:39:44.880 --> 0:39:49.160
<v Speaker 1>was magical. Ben's not a track and field obsessive like

0:39:49.239 --> 0:39:51.720
<v Speaker 1>I am. I wanted Ben to see what I was seeing.

0:39:52.239 --> 0:39:54.160
<v Speaker 1>I want to see where how beautiful runners are. I

0:39:54.160 --> 0:39:56.040
<v Speaker 1>don't know see she's gonna run for us, but you

0:39:56.080 --> 0:39:59.800
<v Speaker 1>see her sprinting, it's just like it's just like unlike

0:40:00.400 --> 0:40:02.480
<v Speaker 1>any running you. I don't know who she is, but

0:40:02.600 --> 0:40:04.759
<v Speaker 1>she's a real runner. If she washed, her run just

0:40:04.840 --> 0:40:09.359
<v Speaker 1>a gorgeous and she was flying. Most people have seen

0:40:09.440 --> 0:40:12.280
<v Speaker 1>runners at high school track meets, or maybe world class

0:40:12.320 --> 0:40:17.279
<v Speaker 1>athletes on television. But to really appreciate this kind of performance,

0:40:18.000 --> 0:40:20.480
<v Speaker 1>you have to witness it in real life up close,

0:40:20.800 --> 0:40:23.839
<v Speaker 1>like we were at eye level five feet away. Then

0:40:23.880 --> 0:40:26.240
<v Speaker 1>you can see the full beauty of what a human

0:40:26.280 --> 0:40:31.840
<v Speaker 1>being can do, propelling themselves with such elegance and effortlessness.

0:40:32.440 --> 0:40:36.160
<v Speaker 1>Just the tap tap tap of their shoes landing lightly

0:40:36.200 --> 0:40:39.360
<v Speaker 1>on the track, you can just tell what someone's I

0:40:39.360 --> 0:40:44.040
<v Speaker 1>don't know who she is. Then Milan Tiff said, that's

0:40:44.120 --> 0:40:52.000
<v Speaker 1>Sidney MacLaughlin. Sidney McLaughlin, Sydney McLaughlin, Lavroney, two time Olympic

0:40:52.000 --> 0:40:56.080
<v Speaker 1>gold medalists in the forumder Beater hurdles, the world record holder,

0:40:56.239 --> 0:41:00.160
<v Speaker 1>one of the greatest sprinters in history. We walked towards her.

0:41:00.600 --> 0:41:02.920
<v Speaker 1>I felt the way an art student would feel if

0:41:02.960 --> 0:41:05.879
<v Speaker 1>they randomly ran into Picasso on the street. No, that's

0:41:05.920 --> 0:41:07.920
<v Speaker 1>not quite right. I felt the way an art student

0:41:07.920 --> 0:41:10.960
<v Speaker 1>would feel if they stumbled across some amazing painting at

0:41:10.960 --> 0:41:14.640
<v Speaker 1>a garage sale, stared at it in awe and then

0:41:14.719 --> 0:41:19.560
<v Speaker 1>realized it's a Picasso. We were standing right next to her,

0:41:19.760 --> 0:41:21.759
<v Speaker 1>so I started to whisper, to try and play a

0:41:21.800 --> 0:41:24.240
<v Speaker 1>cool as soon as I thought she was much taller.

0:41:25.080 --> 0:41:27.080
<v Speaker 1>She's one of the greatest female athletes. I was like,

0:41:29.280 --> 0:41:30.959
<v Speaker 1>I mean, I can't believe I didn't.

0:41:31.000 --> 0:41:31.319
<v Speaker 3>I didn't.

0:41:31.320 --> 0:41:32.799
<v Speaker 1>It didn't ever occurred to me that it was full.

0:41:34.160 --> 0:41:36.640
<v Speaker 1>Ben and I had spent months trying to solve the

0:41:36.680 --> 0:41:39.960
<v Speaker 1>moral puzzle presented by the Berlin Olympics, trying to see

0:41:40.080 --> 0:41:44.360
<v Speaker 1>clearly through the fog of nineteen thirty six, first should

0:41:44.360 --> 0:41:47.880
<v Speaker 1>we go? And then, more importantly, if you have ideals,

0:41:48.200 --> 0:41:50.880
<v Speaker 1>how do you hold onto them in an ugly, messy world?

0:41:52.360 --> 0:41:56.120
<v Speaker 1>And that day at the UCLA track, by some miraculous

0:41:56.120 --> 0:41:59.360
<v Speaker 1>twist of fate, we got a glimpse of the Sublime

0:42:00.200 --> 0:42:04.120
<v Speaker 1>gliding past us, clear as day, close enough to touch,

0:42:05.200 --> 0:42:15.160
<v Speaker 1>showing us the way. We will have many more arguments

0:42:15.160 --> 0:42:17.680
<v Speaker 1>in the future, just as we had in nineteen thirty six.

0:42:18.200 --> 0:42:21.600
<v Speaker 1>We continued to live in a very impure place, and

0:42:21.680 --> 0:42:26.520
<v Speaker 1>we should have those arguments. That's our job to engage

0:42:26.560 --> 0:42:29.040
<v Speaker 1>with what is difficult, to try and pick a safe

0:42:29.080 --> 0:42:33.480
<v Speaker 1>path through the minefield. But the epiphany I had as

0:42:33.480 --> 0:42:36.680
<v Speaker 1>Sidney McLaughlin swept past us is that we need to

0:42:36.719 --> 0:42:41.320
<v Speaker 1>be clear about what we're arguing. For Charles Cheryl was

0:42:41.360 --> 0:42:47.440
<v Speaker 1>protecting some archaic notion of amateurism. Avery Brundage was furthering

0:42:47.480 --> 0:42:51.959
<v Speaker 1>his own ambitions. Jesse Owens was navigating the impossible complexity

0:42:52.320 --> 0:42:55.800
<v Speaker 1>of life as a black man. Billy Garland just wanted

0:42:55.800 --> 0:43:00.000
<v Speaker 1>to build stuff. Altogether, they loaded up the Olympic movement

0:43:00.000 --> 0:43:03.280
<v Speaker 1>and with so much excess baggage that it's a miracle

0:43:03.320 --> 0:43:06.520
<v Speaker 1>that didn't sing and we don't need any of it.

0:43:06.520 --> 0:43:09.480
<v Speaker 1>It's just getting in the way. The pure place that

0:43:09.560 --> 0:43:12.520
<v Speaker 1>everyone was looking for is not a country or a city.

0:43:13.200 --> 0:43:16.480
<v Speaker 1>It's a feeling. It's the awe that comes from watching

0:43:16.520 --> 0:43:22.000
<v Speaker 1>someone perform an athletic feat better and faster than anyone else.

0:43:22.160 --> 0:43:25.840
<v Speaker 3>What's the right to the line? Sidney MacLaughlin is bringing

0:43:25.840 --> 0:43:28.480
<v Speaker 3>it to the La La. Muhammed Mohammad's trying to hold

0:43:28.520 --> 0:43:32.120
<v Speaker 3>on McLoughlin on the inside to the line. That's gonna

0:43:32.120 --> 0:43:35.480
<v Speaker 3>be Sidney's time again. That's a long record again.

0:43:36.040 --> 0:43:44.000
<v Speaker 8>My Cloughlin.

0:43:49.239 --> 0:43:53.520
<v Speaker 1>Orisionist History is produced by Benda daf Haffrey, Tolly Emmlin

0:43:53.640 --> 0:43:57.399
<v Speaker 1>and Nina Bird Lawrence. Our editor is Sarah Nix. Fact

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<v Speaker 1>checking by Arthur Gomberts and Jail Goldfine. Original scoring by

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<v Speaker 1>Luis Kara, Mastering by Sarah Bruger and Jake Krsky, Engineering

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<v Speaker 1>by Nina Bird Lawrence. Our executive producer is Jacob Smith.

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<v Speaker 1>Special thanks to Karen Schakerji. Additional thanks to Michael Yushinsky,

0:44:15.520 --> 0:44:21.000
<v Speaker 1>Meredith Rawlins, Michael Specter and Michael Linton at Pushkin. Special

0:44:21.040 --> 0:44:25.640
<v Speaker 1>thanks to Jake Flanagan, Owen Miller, Eric Sandler, Kira Posey,

0:44:25.920 --> 0:44:31.200
<v Speaker 1>Jordan McMillan, Nicole opten Bosch and Brian Schrebnick, Christina Sullivan,

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<v Speaker 1>Kerry Brody and Greta Come. I'm Malcolm Glapnow