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Speaker 1: The thing I'm really really interested in is the kind

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Speaker 1: of way the case was received around the country and

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Speaker 1: the world. That's where I want to get to. But

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Speaker 1: starting with So, this train that's going to run right

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Speaker 1: out there, it's coming from Chattanooga right going where at Nashville, Memphis,

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Speaker 1: going to Memphis. Yeah, I'm in a little town in

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Speaker 1: northeast Alabama called Scottsborough, sitting in an old African Methodist

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Speaker 1: Episcopal church built in eighteen seventy eight by former slaves.

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Speaker 1: The church is now a museum and Ben, the daph

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Speaker 1: Haffrey and I are talking to the director, Tom Reidy

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Speaker 1: about what happened on the Chattanooga to Memphis train at

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Speaker 1: the peak of the Great Depression.

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Speaker 2: It's nineteen thirty one. People are hoboing all over the

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Speaker 2: country and on the morning of March twenty fifth, the

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Speaker 2: nine defendants along with two young ladies from Huntsville, along

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Speaker 2: with dozens of others. Never we'll never know who else

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Speaker 2: was on that train between here and Chattanooga. There was

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Speaker 2: an altercation on the train and at Stevenson, which is

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Speaker 2: a town about twenty miles from here, six white guys

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Speaker 2: were thrown off the train by a group of African Americans.

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Speaker 2: This is probably one part of the story. Everybody agrees

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Speaker 2: on that the six came off and these other guys

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Speaker 2: stayed on. There's a fight, Yeah, there's a fight over space.

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Speaker 1: This is Alabama at the height of Jim Crow.

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Speaker 2: So these the white guys that got off the train

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Speaker 2: went back to the agent at the Stevenson depot and said, hey,

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Speaker 2: we just got thrown off this train, which they were

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Speaker 2: illegally on right there on ticketed. But and there's all

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Speaker 2: these black guys. Of course they didn't call them black guys.

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Speaker 2: And oh, by the way, two white women.

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Speaker 1: We have white women and young black men together on

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Speaker 1: a train. The station master at Stevenson Depot calls ahead

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Speaker 1: to the paint Rock station.

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Speaker 2: By the time they get to paint Rock, there's anywhere

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Speaker 2: from one hundred and one hundred and fifty men, horses,

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Speaker 2: ropes waiting for the train.

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Speaker 1: Everyone's pulled off the train. The two women say they've

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Speaker 1: been raped. The nine young men, some of them just

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Speaker 1: kids twelve and thirteen years old, gets shipped directly to Scottsboro,

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Speaker 1: which is the county seat. By the time they get there,

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Speaker 1: another mob is waiting, and.

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Speaker 2: There's this wonderful Atticus Finch moment in the story where

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Speaker 2: the sheriff of Scottsboro, Mattwane, comes out with his shotgun

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Speaker 2: and says, the first one that tries to cross me

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Speaker 2: is going to get their head blown off. And that

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Speaker 2: apparently held the crowd back a little.

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Speaker 3: Because I guess they believed them, And.

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Speaker 2: Two weeks later, on April sixth, and three hours after

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Speaker 2: they met their attorney, the trial started.

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Speaker 1: Him Malcolm Gladwell, Welcome to Revisionist History, my show about

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Speaker 1: things overlooked and misunderstood. This is a ninth episode in

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Speaker 1: our series about Hitler's Olympics, The Games behind the Games.

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Speaker 1: We've spent the last eight episodes exploring the many rationalizations,

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Speaker 1: self justifications, and delusions triggered by the Berlin Olympics. Berlin

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Speaker 1: kicked off cognitive dissonance on an international scale. Hitler's wave

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Speaker 1: of anti Semitism focused the world's attention on Germany, But

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Speaker 1: in nineteen thirty one, something happened across the ocean from

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Speaker 1: Germany that held the world's attention in the same way

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Speaker 1: the Scotsboro Boys trial. In this our series finale, let's

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Speaker 1: turn the clock back to nineteen thirty one. The Scottsborough

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Speaker 1: trial was a farce. There was no evidence of rape,

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Speaker 1: and one of the women would later retract her accusation.

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Speaker 1: Neither fact made a difference in nine.

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Speaker 4: Negro youths are hurriedly arrested, promptly marched off to Scottsboro

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Speaker 4: for trial. Six days later, they are indicted uncharges of assault.

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Speaker 4: Seven of them are senanced by Justice John C. Anderson

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Speaker 4: to hang by the neck until dead. Subsequent motion for

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Speaker 4: a new trial is overruled as the Alabama Supreme Court

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Speaker 4: affirms the convictions.

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Speaker 1: This kind of thing had been happening in the South

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Speaker 1: for years, but something about Scottsboro and the brazenness of

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Speaker 1: all white juries saying guilty, guilty, guilty, really touched a nerve.

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Speaker 4: Thousands of telegrams bore into Alabama from all over the world,

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Speaker 4: asserting that the Negroes had been night a fair trial.

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Speaker 4: The case is finally carried to the highest court in

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Speaker 4: the land, the Supreme Court of the United States.

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Speaker 1: There was public pressure, There were appeals, re trials, landlock.

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Speaker 3: Did you go to jump in chout?

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Speaker 5: They tell you what's all about.

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Speaker 2: Everybody's writing about it. Everybody knows the Discosbrow Voice. People

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Speaker 2: were starting to have radios in their house. But it's

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Speaker 2: just remarkable how fast the word did spread on.

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Speaker 1: This Reedy was sitting inside the old church as we spoke,

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Speaker 1: and behind him there was a poster. It was a

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Speaker 1: list of names linked in some way to the public

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Speaker 1: campaign to get justice for the Scotsboro Boys. There was I. B. Wells,

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Speaker 1: the great African American activist, Jimmy Cagney, one of the

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Speaker 1: biggest names in Hollywood, and then Albert Einstein.

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Speaker 2: Einstein was in Germany when they arrested, and he in

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Speaker 2: the summer of nineteen thirty one wrote a letter with

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Speaker 2: a bunch of German scientists to the governor Miller, saying, well,

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Speaker 2: they were intellectuals, they called them. So German intellectuals demand

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Speaker 2: the release of the Scottsboro Boys because they're innocent.

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Speaker 1: And Einstein, I sent is like physicists living in Germany. Right,

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Speaker 1: who is somehow so moved by the press accounts of this?

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Speaker 3: Right?

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Speaker 1: Two years before Hitler became Chancellor, thousands of Germans were

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Speaker 1: out in the streets protesting American white supremacy.

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Speaker 2: And they had people throwing rocks through the American embassy

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Speaker 2: with notes taped onto him. That was just say they

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Speaker 2: shall not die.

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Speaker 1: And that is why Ben and I were in Scottsborough.

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Speaker 3: I remember when you sent me an email with one

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Speaker 3: line and it was like, We're going to do an

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Speaker 3: episode on Scottsboro. And I was like, why would we

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Speaker 3: talk about Scottsborough? And then I realized what year it

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Speaker 3: was and what happened the year after?

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Speaker 1: Oh right, nineteen thirty two an Olympic year as well,

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Speaker 1: and where were those games held? I think you can

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Speaker 1: guess where this is headed. In April of venteteen twenty three,

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Speaker 1: a real estate developer from California named Billy Garland traveled

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Speaker 1: to Rome for the annual meeting of the International Olympic Committee.

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Speaker 1: Garland was good friends with Avery Brundage. They were cut

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Speaker 1: from the same cloth, men from humble beginnings with outsized ambition,

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Speaker 1: dreamers builders. But where Brundage was grim and angry, with

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Speaker 1: a chip on his shoulder the size of Lake Michigan,

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Speaker 1: Garland was all sunny, optimism and charm. Billy everyone called

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Speaker 1: him Billy had life force. Billy grew up poor and

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Speaker 1: married money. Billy was the embodiment of Los Angeles, a

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Speaker 1: city in the nineteen twenties, half a million strong and

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Speaker 1: growing by the day, a city on the verge of stardom.

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Speaker 1: Billy watched the sunrise every morning over the San Berardino Mountains,

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Speaker 1: but never bothered to look to see if it's said

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Speaker 1: at night.

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Speaker 6: LA was really controlled and run by a coterie of

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Speaker 6: a shadow government comprised of banker's financiers, but really, above

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Speaker 6: all the real estate.

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Speaker 1: Man Barry Siegel, the author of a wonderful book about

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Speaker 1: Billy Garland, Dreamers and Schemers.

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Speaker 6: Of which Billy Garland was premier. The prince of the realtors.

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Speaker 1: Billy owned huge swaths of downtown Los Angeles. His best

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Speaker 1: friend was the publisher of the La Times, the most

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Speaker 1: powerful man in the city. His brothers in the shadow

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Speaker 1: government kept out of the spotlight.

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Speaker 3: Billy.

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Speaker 6: Billy was the frontman, a very outgoing personality, making speeches,

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Speaker 6: arriving at the railroad station, press conferences, writing columns of

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Speaker 6: his own for the La Times, always always promoting, promoting

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Speaker 6: the city, promoting the future.

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Speaker 1: So in nineteen twenty three, Billy sails to Italy for

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Speaker 1: his biggest pitch yet to the International Olympic Committee. The

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Speaker 1: IOC was meeting that year in the Old Capitol Building

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Speaker 1: across from the Forum, a venue worthy of a group

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Speaker 1: obsessed with antiquity. To start the day, the King of

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Speaker 1: Italy said a few words. Then the King is opening things,

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Speaker 1: and like, here's this guy from I mean, from what

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Speaker 1: their perspective must have been, the middle of nowhere.

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Speaker 6: Absolutely, they literally were asking him where Los Angeles is?

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Speaker 1: What's his trump card?

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Speaker 6: Hollywood? By that time, Hollywood films were widely popular all

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Speaker 6: around the world, and that's one of the things he

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Speaker 6: was asked at that meeting. Is is La anywhere near Hollywood?

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Speaker 6: And Billy was smart enough to say, yes, La is

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Speaker 6: a suburb of Hollywood.

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Speaker 1: He understood that that glamour, the emerging glamour of the region,

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Speaker 1: could play to his advantage. Yes, yeah, I'm just thinking

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Speaker 1: back to the IOC though, because the the IOC really

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Speaker 1: is it's like every faded aristocrat in Europe is, Yes,

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Speaker 1: every fuddy dotty you can find with their wax mustache

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Speaker 1: is around the table. And then this like this, this

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Speaker 1: this kind of charismatic, wide open, extroverted Californian shows up.

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Speaker 1: I just I'm just imagining. It's a fantastic scene.

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Speaker 6: I've imagined it too, And I think that's part of

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Speaker 6: how he was effected. I mean, he was a breath

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Speaker 6: of fresh air. He knew how to talk to them,

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Speaker 6: the idea. When he rose to give his talk, his pitch,

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Speaker 6: he's pitching America. He's pitching the culture of America, which

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Speaker 6: is still which is strange and exotic to them.

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Speaker 1: They're there amidst all of this sort of eighteenth century grandeur,

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Speaker 1: and the American stands up and says, there's this brand

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Speaker 1: new country across the ocean. You guys need to go

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Speaker 1: there next. Kind of this kind of yeah.

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Speaker 6: It's and that's exactly that's an exact sort of exactly

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Speaker 6: how he put it too.

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Speaker 1: He says, if the Games are to be truly international

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Speaker 1: in character, they must also be held in other parts

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Speaker 1: of the universe. The Olympics should come to Los Angeles.

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Speaker 1: The room is silent, No one says a word. Then

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Speaker 1: one delicate stands up and says, so moved, let us

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Speaker 1: take our beloved creation to the shores of the Pacific.

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Speaker 1: Someone else seconds the motion. It goes to a vote,

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Speaker 1: it carries unanimously. The whole group celebrated at the Coronel Palace,

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Speaker 1: home to the country's royal family. Billy spotted a bald

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Speaker 1: man speaking passionately to a group of onlookers. It was Mussolini,

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Speaker 1: the newly installed fascist leader of Italy. Billy wandered over

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Speaker 1: shook his hand. The next day, Billy had an audience

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Speaker 1: with Pope Pious, the eleventh of the Vatican. Pious said

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Speaker 1: how much he believed in the Olympic tradition, and Billy

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Speaker 1: kissed his ring. Billy convinces the IOC to bring its

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Speaker 1: temple of human idealism to the United States, And just

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Speaker 1: as the whole dazzling spectacle is about to launch, nine

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Speaker 1: black kids in northern Alabama gets swept up in a

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Speaker 1: miscarriage of justice so outrageous that it sparks a wave

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Speaker 1: of protest around the world. March is in Germany, South Africa, Cuba,

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Speaker 1: and the world finds itself in the same position as

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Speaker 1: it would four years later on the eve of the

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Speaker 1: Berlin Olympics, contemplating a pure competition in an impure place

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Speaker 1: with one difference. No one ever threatened to boycott the

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Speaker 1: Los Angeles Games.

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Speaker 7: That's in the name are the President of the United

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Speaker 7: stirty I have proclaim open the Olympic Games of Los

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Speaker 7: Angeles celebrating that tenth opiod on the modern area.

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Speaker 3: Well, so if the world is upset about Scottsboro in

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Speaker 3: nineteen thirty one, then why is there not a boycott

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Speaker 3: of the LA Games in thirty two?

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Speaker 1: I think you know, Well, the obvious reason is the

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Speaker 1: nature of American transgressions in civil rights are on the

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Speaker 1: surface so different from the nature of Nazi transgressions. American

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Speaker 1: transgressions are three hundred years old. They're embedded in the

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Speaker 1: kind of culture of the country. And I can't stress

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Speaker 1: this enough. They involve black people, and it's just it

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Speaker 1: is simply the case and continues to be the case

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Speaker 1: in some sense that a transgression against a black person

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Speaker 1: is not considered the same as a transgression against a

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Speaker 1: white person.

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Speaker 3: Part of the difference is that Nazism is a new thing,

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Speaker 3: whereas what's happening in Alabama is just not new at all.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, what's important is it's because it wasn't it wasn't

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Speaker 1: a one off. Right, why does America go up and

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Speaker 1: the black community particular gets so up in arms about

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Speaker 1: George Floyd because it had happened too many times? Right,

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Speaker 1: And Scott's part is kind of like that. There's been

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Speaker 1: a steady drumbeat of this kind of stuff coming out

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Speaker 1: of the South, and there's you know, the world seizes

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Speaker 1: on that because they're like it can't, can't keep doing this.

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Speaker 1: It wasn't system malfunction. It was system function. That's a

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Speaker 1: lot more kind of a outrageous I don't think you

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Speaker 1: could make sense of what happened with the Scottsboro Boys

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Speaker 1: unless you take a step back and look at the

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Speaker 1: Alabama Constitution. I mean, look at the kind of legal

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Speaker 1: infrastructure that was in place in Alabama at the time.

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Speaker 1: So why did the LA Games escape moral scrutiny. It's puzzling.

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Speaker 1: Maybe it's as simple as the fact that the world

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Speaker 1: holds America to a different standard than everyone else. If

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Speaker 1: you're a young upstart of a country, you get away

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Speaker 1: with more. Or maybe the world cares less about crimes

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Speaker 1: against black people than it does about crimes against white people.

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Speaker 1: Or maybe the Nazis were in the Olympics so much

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Speaker 1: about Nazism that it was really easy to see the

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Speaker 1: contradiction between the Games and its host in a way

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Speaker 1: that didn't seem as obvious with the LA Olympics. Or

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Speaker 1: maybe it's all three, but Scottsborough was not some strange

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Speaker 1: outlying event. It touched a raw nerve because people understood

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Speaker 1: that it was typical. It was how the South worked.

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Speaker 1: Discrimination was baked right into American law. I called up

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Speaker 1: a law professor at the University of Alabama, Susan Hammill,

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Speaker 1: and the first thing she brought up was Alabama's state

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Speaker 1: constitution at the time, which had been rewritten in nineteen

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Speaker 1: oh one, with one thing in mind. There was no.

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Speaker 8: Doubt as to what the intent was.

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Speaker 1: As one delegate said, they were driven by quote, the

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Speaker 1: necessity of relieving the black belt of the incubus resting

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Speaker 1: on it. Another delegate was more blunt.

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Speaker 8: We are here to get rid of the nigger.

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Speaker 1: The fifteenth Amendment to the US Constitution bars states from

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Speaker 1: denying people the right to vote, So the framers of

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Speaker 1: the Alabama Constitution devised a bunch of workarounds. First, a

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Speaker 1: poll tax. You had to pay a dollar fifty to vote,

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Speaker 1: which was a lot of money back then. Right there,

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Speaker 1: you've gotten rid of a lot of sharecroppers. But they

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Speaker 1: kept going, adding every obstacle they could think of.

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Speaker 8: They had to own property, there were literacy tests, and

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Speaker 8: there was the overall discretion of the white voting registrars.

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Speaker 8: The voting registrars in terms of who was actually registering folks,

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Speaker 8: had a great deal of discretion. If you had a

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Speaker 8: white person that kind of met the requirements but also

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Speaker 8: maybe didn't, they could get waved through.

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Speaker 1: The nineteen oh one Alabama Constitution would end up being

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Speaker 1: the longest constitution in the world three hundred and eighty

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Speaker 1: eight thousand, eight hundred and eighty two words, about eight

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Speaker 1: hundred and fifty times longer than the US Constitution.

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Speaker 8: When African Americans went to register after the nineteen oh

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Speaker 8: one constitution was ratified, they were just turned away.

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Speaker 1: In nineteen hundred, there were one hundred and eighty one thousand,

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Speaker 1: four hundred and seventy one African American men of voting age.

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Speaker 1: After the constitution, fewer than three thousand of those men

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Speaker 1: could vote.

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Speaker 8: You know, we did not have a black electorate in

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Speaker 8: this state worth speaking of until the nineteen seventies.

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Speaker 1: It gets worse. In nineteen oh two, a black janitor

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Speaker 1: named Jackson Giles file suit against the state. Jackson says,

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Speaker 1: I meet all the requirements, I can read, I understand

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Speaker 1: the constitution, I paid my pull tax, I own property,

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Speaker 1: but they still won't let me vote. The case goes

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Speaker 1: all the way to the Supreme Court in nineteen oh three, where,

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Speaker 1: writing for the majority, the legendary Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes,

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Speaker 1: one of the greatest legal minds the Supreme Court has

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Speaker 1: ever produced. Rites and I'm not making this up. The defendant,

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Speaker 1: mister Jackson, alleges that the state of Alabama has constructed

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Speaker 1: a voting system that is in open violation of the

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Speaker 1: Constitution of the US. But he is asking to be

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Speaker 1: registered to vote under the very same rules that he

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Speaker 1: says are an open violation of the Constitution of the

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Speaker 1: United States. If we rule in his favor, we are

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Speaker 1: complicit in the violation. It's one of the all time

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Speaker 1: great Supreme Court catch twenty twos.

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Speaker 8: Justice Holmes disingenuously said, Oh, if Jackson Giles wants a remedy,

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Speaker 8: he needs to seek his member of Congress to do

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Speaker 8: something about it. But Jackson and Giles had been denied

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Speaker 8: the right to vote for any member of Congress.

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Speaker 1: Mister Giles, if you don't like the system that keeps

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Speaker 1: you from voting, then vote to change it.

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Speaker 8: The US Supreme Court, like the rest of the country

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Speaker 8: just wanted to wash their hands of If I can

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Speaker 8: put it this way, the dirty South.

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Speaker 1: Now we can understand what happened in Scottsboro. The jury

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Speaker 1: pool in Alabama is drawn from the voting pool, and

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Speaker 1: since the voters are basically all white, then the juries

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Speaker 1: are all white, which means that when nine black kids

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Speaker 1: are accused of some bogus crime on the Chattanooga to

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Speaker 1: Memphis train, those nine kids are out of luck. All told,

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Speaker 1: the Scottsboro boys would end up serving more than one

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Speaker 1: hundred years behind bars for something that never happened. And

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Speaker 1: in Giles v. Harris, the Supreme Court of the United

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Speaker 1: States signs off on the whole range. And so do

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Speaker 1: you study that case in at law school in Alabama.

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Speaker 8: No, isn't that a shame?

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Speaker 1: Scottsboro was an embarrassment, an outrage, exposing the very dark

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Speaker 1: heart of the country that was about to host the

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Speaker 1: purest of athletic spectacles. If the world shouldn't have gone

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Speaker 1: to Berlin in nineteen thirty six for moral reasons, then

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Speaker 1: the world shouldn't have gone to Los Angeles in nineteen

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Speaker 1: thirty two either. Where can you go in the lead

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Speaker 1: up to the Berlin Games, a group known as the

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Speaker 1: Jewish Labor Committee set out to solve the problem of

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Speaker 1: what to do about impure places and peer competitions. The

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Speaker 1: organizers were the same people who had been up in

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Speaker 1: arms over the Scottsboro Boys four years earlier, who helped

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Speaker 1: fund their legal defense, who were fighting for the rights

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Speaker 1: of working Americans. Their hands were clean. They called their

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Speaker 1: games the World Labor Athletic Carnival. It was held in

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Speaker 1: New York City on Randall's Island in August of nineteen

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Speaker 1: thirty six, overlapping with the last two days of the

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Speaker 1: Berlin Olympics. Invitations went out. The carnival will function as

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Speaker 1: a show of protest against the iron heel of Nazism.

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Speaker 1: New York Mayor Fiorlo LaGuardia signed up to be co chair.

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Speaker 1: The Governor of New York agreed to hand out prizes.

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Speaker 1: Proceeds from the event will go to supporting the anti

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Speaker 1: Nazi movement end eventually to helping Jews escape from Eastern Europe.

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Speaker 1: The Labour Games represent the first solution to the dilemma

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Speaker 1: of the Olympics. Carve out a little corner of ideological purity,

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Speaker 1: don't compromise align your political values with the ethic of

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Speaker 1: amateur sport. Be an absolutist. Ed Gordon was there. He

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Speaker 1: was the winner of the long jump in the night

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Speaker 1: nineteen thirty two Olympics. George Veroff, the so called jumping Janitor,

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Speaker 1: was there too. His gold medal jump beat the winning

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Speaker 1: mark in Berlin by a full inch and a half.

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Speaker 1: The women's forty yard dash was won by a member

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Speaker 1: of the dressmakers Union, Wanda Oldzuska. Another Oldzuska Mitzi, competed

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Speaker 1: with her on the winning relay team. When reporter asked

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Speaker 1: Mitzi how she trained, she responded, oh, picketing and throwing

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Speaker 1: stones through windows, and nobody came to watch. The stands

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Speaker 1: were half empty. Why well. The Games were supposed to

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Speaker 1: draw their support from the labor movement, but the Jewish

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Speaker 1: Labor Committee was an anti communist socialist group, so some

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Speaker 1: communists felt left out and stayed home. Then came a

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Speaker 1: second disagreement, this time between the American Socialist Party, the

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Speaker 1: Old Guard, and some upstart progressives led by Norman Thomas.

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Speaker 1: Let me just read to you from a History of

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Speaker 1: the Labor Games by Edward Shapiro. The struggle came to

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Speaker 1: a head at the party's annual convention in nineteen thirty

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Speaker 1: six in Cleveland. When the Olguard left, the party took

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Speaker 1: the magazine The New Leader with them and created the

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Speaker 1: Social Democratic Federation. The New Leader viewed Randall's Island as

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Speaker 1: virtually a New York Social Democratic Federation, event copiously discussing

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Speaker 1: its progress from its inception in May through the Games

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Speaker 1: themselves in August. The pro Norman Thomas Socialist Call, in contrast,

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Speaker 1: merely printed a pro forma announcement of the Games. More

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Speaker 1: to its liking, was a track in gymnastic demonstration on

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Speaker 1: July fourth, nineteen thirty six, in Taberville, Ohio, near Cleveland,

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Speaker 1: sponsored by the Czechoslovak Socialist Federation of America, the Czechoslovak

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Speaker 1: Labor Gymnastic Union, the American Workingmen's Socle of New York,

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Speaker 1: the Workingmen's Gymnastic Association, and the Workers Sports League of America.

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Speaker 1: This is the problem with the pursuit of purity. At

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Speaker 1: a certain point, it starts to get absurd because the

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Speaker 1: Communists get upset of the Socialists, and then the Socialists

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Speaker 1: get upset at each other, and sooner or later, your

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Speaker 1: athletic spectacle that was intended to showcase the greatest talent

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Speaker 1: in the world is in Taberville, Ohio, under the aegis

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Speaker 1: of the Czechoslovak Socialist Federation of America. I mean, with

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Speaker 1: all due respect to the Czechoslovak Socialist Federation of America.

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Speaker 1: Who wants to watch that? So what's the solution? Option two?

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Speaker 1: Take that absolutism down a notch. Be willing to compromise.

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Speaker 1: Remember Charles Cheryl, the American delegate who fought so hard

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Speaker 1: for America to stay in the Berlin Olympics. Just before

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Speaker 1: the games, someone sent him a news clipping about the

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Speaker 1: killing of a Jewish footballer who had apparently been dragged

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00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:03,159
Speaker 1: off the field by Nazis in the middle of a match.

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Speaker 1: Cheryl wrote back your September twenty three letter about the

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Speaker 1: Prague press story of a Jewish football player killed at

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Speaker 1: Ratisports Silesia arrived today. If true, it is as bad

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Speaker 1: as Negro lynchings in our South. Cheryl had ideals. He

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Speaker 1: was perfectly willing to compromise around the edges. Yes, the

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Speaker 1: American South is a nasty place, but so what show

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Speaker 1: me a country without nasty places. You have to hold

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Speaker 1: a pure competition in an impure place, because there aren't

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Speaker 1: any pure places. Here's how Cheryl finishes the letter, answering

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Speaker 1: your clipping. Let me ask you what you would have

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Speaker 1: said if any foreign team had boycotted our Los Angeles

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Speaker 1: nineteen thirty two games because of our negro lynchings in

401
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Speaker 1: the South. Oh, right, the endless boycott bet And I

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Speaker 1: thought about this.

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Speaker 3: I think you're right that that probably if you boycott

404
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Speaker 3: thirty six, you also have to boycott thirty two. And

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Speaker 3: then you're looking at there is no Olympics in nineteen

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Speaker 3: forty because it was planned for Tokyo, and then obviously

407
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Speaker 3: World War II cancels that, and not in forty four either,

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Speaker 3: So then that's a huge stretch of time. It's what

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Speaker 3: is that it's twenty years, twenty years.

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Speaker 1: With the Olympics, twenty eight to forty eight.

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Speaker 3: So could the Olympic movement have survived twenty years of

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Speaker 3: no Olympics? Probably not.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So it starts to seem like you can only

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Speaker 1: keep the Olympics alive at a cost. After the Berlin Games,

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Speaker 1: the Germans put out a report and there's a quote

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Speaker 1: on the title page goes like this, sporting and chivalrous

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Speaker 1: competition awakens the best human qualities. It does not sever,

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Speaker 1: but on the contrary, unites the opponents in mutual understanding

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Speaker 1: and reciprocal respect. It also helps to strengthen the bonds

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Speaker 1: of peace between the nations. May the Olympic flame therefore

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Speaker 1: never be extinguished, Signed Adolf Hitler. That's where you end

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Speaker 1: up when you casually mix the purer and impure your

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Speaker 1: ideals in the mouth of a monster. Idealism does not

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Speaker 1: survive the journey to an impure place. So where does

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Speaker 1: all this confusion leave you? Option three? Billy Garland in

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Speaker 1: the fall of nineteen eighteen, Los Angeles was in a

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Speaker 1: rough patch. The war in Europe was taking its toll

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Speaker 1: on the economy. The nineteen eighteen flew, which it claimed

429
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Speaker 1: millions of lives around the world, had shut down the

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Speaker 1: city streets. Tourism, the great life blood of Los Angeles,

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Speaker 1: was at a standstill. Billy Garland and his friends needed

432
00:28:55,960 --> 00:28:58,560
Speaker 1: a plan to get the city back on track. So

433
00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:01,920
Speaker 1: Billy calls a meeting in his office gathers together the

434
00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:03,000
Speaker 1: power brokers.

435
00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:06,160
Speaker 6: They were meeting there basically to try to figure out

436
00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:12,160
Speaker 6: ways to uh uh promote Los Angeles above all, to

437
00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:15,000
Speaker 6: uh avoid future lulsome business.

438
00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:16,200
Speaker 1: Barry Siegel again.

439
00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:20,560
Speaker 6: And somewhere in that meeting came up the idea of

440
00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:24,240
Speaker 6: bidding for and staging the Olympics as a way to

441
00:29:24,280 --> 00:29:27,560
Speaker 6: put La on the map uh and draw investors.

442
00:29:28,120 --> 00:29:31,200
Speaker 1: The third way to resolve the dilemma of the Olympic

443
00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:34,520
Speaker 1: Games is just to be a realist. You say, whatever,

444
00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:38,280
Speaker 1: let's not complicate things. The games are really useful, and

445
00:29:38,320 --> 00:29:40,640
Speaker 1: if you play our cards right, we can all get rich.

446
00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:46,920
Speaker 1: So Billy got his games here he is announcing.

447
00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:53,440
Speaker 5: Them on the ship. That one happened to arm O

448
00:29:53,760 --> 00:29:57,880
Speaker 5: Faulki be the limit game without a day, the one

449
00:29:57,960 --> 00:30:02,320
Speaker 5: living heritage from those different times.

450
00:30:02,840 --> 00:30:06,800
Speaker 1: Billy didn't write those lines. Believe me, someone at IOC

451
00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:10,560
Speaker 1: headquarters in Switzerland did. But I'm guessing this is the

452
00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:11,840
Speaker 1: part Billy did write.

453
00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:15,120
Speaker 5: Many thousands of visitors to these games will come to

454
00:30:15,280 --> 00:30:18,520
Speaker 5: Los Angeles and California from our thoughts to the globe

455
00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:22,120
Speaker 5: and from every portion of our country. Let me add

456
00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:26,720
Speaker 5: that California recognized her responsibility as hosts. The stranger within

457
00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:28,440
Speaker 5: her gates will be treated to.

458
00:30:28,440 --> 00:30:30,280
Speaker 1: That cordial hospitality and welcome.

459
00:30:30,800 --> 00:30:34,520
Speaker 3: So tradigal of our wonderful state, bring.

460
00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:39,560
Speaker 1: The kids stay at one of my hotels.

461
00:30:36,760 --> 00:30:42,040
Speaker 5: To California, hosts of the world for the sixteen day

462
00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:46,440
Speaker 5: period beginning on July. Period the Witness for Yourself, the

463
00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:52,480
Speaker 5: aldermate and highest manifestations of modern sportsmanship known to mankind.

464
00:30:55,120 --> 00:30:59,320
Speaker 1: Billy builds a magnificent stadium, the Coliseum, just south of downtown.

465
00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:03,800
Speaker 1: He builds the first true athletes village up in Baldwin Hills.

466
00:31:04,520 --> 00:31:07,120
Speaker 1: Billy recruits the two biggest movie stars of the day,

467
00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:11,960
Speaker 1: Douglas Fairbanks and Mary Pickford, to be his spokespeople. Billy

468
00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:15,280
Speaker 1: creates a spectacle. Billy even makes a profit on the

469
00:31:15,320 --> 00:31:19,800
Speaker 1: Games a million dollars. A few years later, Billy would

470
00:31:19,840 --> 00:31:22,040
Speaker 1: be all in favor of the Olympics in Berlin, but

471
00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:26,960
Speaker 1: not because he'd performed some elaborate political analysis. Please more

472
00:31:27,080 --> 00:31:30,200
Speaker 1: like love the kaiser Af hotel? Can we have one

473
00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:34,320
Speaker 1: in Hollywood? How much do the Nazis look to thirty

474
00:31:34,320 --> 00:31:38,600
Speaker 1: two for kind of inspiration on I mean they take

475
00:31:38,680 --> 00:31:41,160
Speaker 1: that kind of that notion of the Games as a

476
00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:43,680
Speaker 1: spectacle and run with it.

477
00:31:44,320 --> 00:31:47,120
Speaker 6: They were inspired by the thirty two Olympics very much.

478
00:31:47,160 --> 00:31:49,680
Speaker 6: So it was my thirty two Olympics for a model

479
00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:55,280
Speaker 6: model for them. In that way. Billy Garland and his

480
00:31:55,480 --> 00:31:57,200
Speaker 6: game showed them the way.

481
00:31:58,160 --> 00:32:00,920
Speaker 1: There was a point deep into this series where I

482
00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:04,560
Speaker 1: found myself more and more sympathetic to Billy Garland, to

483
00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:07,600
Speaker 1: the guy who just made things work. Ben never went

484
00:32:07,640 --> 00:32:12,840
Speaker 1: that far. We argued about it. I started this whole

485
00:32:14,040 --> 00:32:19,240
Speaker 1: investigation way back when believing that we should have brought

486
00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:24,960
Speaker 1: boycott it in thirty six. Now I'm not sure. I'm

487
00:32:24,960 --> 00:32:26,840
Speaker 1: not sure I agree, And now I think I'm glad

488
00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:30,000
Speaker 1: we went. Everyone involved in this debate back then and

489
00:32:30,040 --> 00:32:34,640
Speaker 1: everyone involved in debate like this today. The core of

490
00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:37,160
Speaker 1: all of it is everyone takes sports really really really

491
00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:40,000
Speaker 1: really really really seriously. And I kind of realized halfway

492
00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:41,480
Speaker 1: through that I'm one of those people.

493
00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:44,080
Speaker 3: You're a person who thinks sports really matter.

494
00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:47,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, I didn't think I was. I was like, I

495
00:32:47,400 --> 00:32:50,200
Speaker 1: thought I was the guy who said, why are we

496
00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:53,479
Speaker 1: spending all this time and attention arguing about, you know,

497
00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:55,520
Speaker 1: running a race against each other? And then I'm like,

498
00:32:55,560 --> 00:32:57,640
Speaker 1: wait a minute, I am that person who cares passionately

499
00:32:57,640 --> 00:32:59,600
Speaker 1: about the people running out to race each other.

500
00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:02,920
Speaker 3: With your foil me as a person who is just

501
00:33:03,040 --> 00:33:06,120
Speaker 3: sort of like unable to recognize even an Olympic level runner.

502
00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:10,000
Speaker 1: And so, like you know, the question we have to

503
00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:12,680
Speaker 1: ask ourselves is if we want a boycott in thirty six,

504
00:33:13,320 --> 00:33:16,760
Speaker 1: do we really want an Olympics Because the only way

505
00:33:16,760 --> 00:33:19,320
Speaker 1: to have in Olympics is to is to hold your

506
00:33:19,320 --> 00:33:22,360
Speaker 1: nose from time to time. And I realized, oh, actually,

507
00:33:22,400 --> 00:33:24,480
Speaker 1: I think I'm I think I would be willing to

508
00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:25,280
Speaker 1: hold my nose.

509
00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:29,480
Speaker 3: I think though I feel in some ways like the

510
00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:34,160
Speaker 3: less intellectually curious member of this team, because I started

511
00:33:34,160 --> 00:33:36,480
Speaker 3: feeling like we should boycott the nineteen thirty six games,

512
00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:39,320
Speaker 3: and I used to feel like we shouldn't have gone

513
00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:42,920
Speaker 3: thirty six games. So I don't know what I was

514
00:33:42,960 --> 00:33:46,000
Speaker 3: really investigating then having not I guess maybe just like

515
00:33:46,080 --> 00:33:48,960
Speaker 3: to confirm my position. I think if you think sports

516
00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:53,240
Speaker 3: and the Olympics really matter, which admittedly I do love

517
00:33:53,280 --> 00:33:57,200
Speaker 3: the Olympics, but I'm not that person. I think if

518
00:33:57,200 --> 00:34:00,720
Speaker 3: you think sports really, really really matter, then it's even

519
00:34:00,840 --> 00:34:03,720
Speaker 3: more incumbent on you to boycott the nineteen thirty six

520
00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:06,400
Speaker 3: Olympics because the myth that everyone buys into is that

521
00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:10,839
Speaker 3: this is a festival celebrating the best of what makes

522
00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:14,319
Speaker 3: us human. Everybody's going to come together and try their

523
00:34:14,960 --> 00:34:17,799
Speaker 3: hardest and have a defining moment of their life in

524
00:34:17,880 --> 00:34:21,000
Speaker 3: a place with the government that can then caj all

525
00:34:21,040 --> 00:34:25,919
Speaker 3: of that moral authority and beauty and excellence and put

526
00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:28,239
Speaker 3: it in the service of their own project, which is

527
00:34:28,520 --> 00:34:30,920
Speaker 3: the defilement of what it is to be a person,

528
00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:34,200
Speaker 3: like one of the most inhumane things in the twentieth century.

529
00:34:34,440 --> 00:34:37,839
Speaker 3: So if you really think that sports matters that much,

530
00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:40,680
Speaker 3: then I think it's incumbent on you to not lend

531
00:34:40,719 --> 00:34:44,319
Speaker 3: it to that project. And not all in a way,

532
00:34:44,360 --> 00:34:48,040
Speaker 3: this is just a false question, because the IOC one

533
00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:50,200
Speaker 3: hundred percent could have moved the Olympics.

534
00:34:50,320 --> 00:34:55,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, so I am incredibly skeptical of the idea that

535
00:34:55,719 --> 00:34:58,880
Speaker 1: a boycott of Berlin would have in any way have

536
00:35:00,480 --> 00:35:05,399
Speaker 1: our opposition to Nazism. My guess is the opposite would

537
00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:08,600
Speaker 1: have happened. That we would have said, Okay, we've said,

538
00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:11,400
Speaker 1: we've set our piece, we don't like the man, and

539
00:35:11,440 --> 00:35:13,680
Speaker 1: we're not going to go and participate in these little games.

540
00:35:14,120 --> 00:35:17,600
Speaker 1: And like some strikes me, you could make a completely

541
00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:21,680
Speaker 1: alternate scenario that this allows the Germans to feel like, Okay,

542
00:35:21,719 --> 00:35:24,120
Speaker 1: the rest of the world is like, that's you guys,

543
00:35:24,120 --> 00:35:25,719
Speaker 1: don't like what we're doing, We're just going to go

544
00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:28,520
Speaker 1: off on, you know, be even worse. I don't know,

545
00:35:28,840 --> 00:35:32,200
Speaker 1: I'm just not I don't buy that premise about I

546
00:35:32,239 --> 00:35:35,640
Speaker 1: never have bought that premise about symbolic acts of protest.

547
00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:38,160
Speaker 3: But don't you think that the record shows that having

548
00:35:38,239 --> 00:35:41,080
Speaker 3: the Olympics in Berlin in thirty six is helpful to

549
00:35:41,080 --> 00:35:43,439
Speaker 3: the Nazis? Like Gerbel says, this is a really big

550
00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:48,440
Speaker 3: breakthrough for US and foreign currency floods into the country.

551
00:35:48,560 --> 00:35:52,800
Speaker 1: They're happy that they got away with it. Yeah, but Ben,

552
00:35:52,880 --> 00:35:54,920
Speaker 1: on the scale of things that were happening in the

553
00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:58,879
Speaker 1: nineteen thirties that had an effect on the progress of Nazism,

554
00:35:59,120 --> 00:36:01,440
Speaker 1: this is so far down the list.

555
00:36:01,680 --> 00:36:04,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, you're right, But I still feel like the boycott

556
00:36:04,520 --> 00:36:07,120
Speaker 3: makes sense. And I agree it's incredibly low down on

557
00:36:07,160 --> 00:36:09,640
Speaker 3: the list of things that you should do in the

558
00:36:09,719 --> 00:36:12,360
Speaker 3: nineteen thirties to combat Nazism, But like, why wouldn't you

559
00:36:12,400 --> 00:36:15,000
Speaker 3: do all the things like it makes sense to do.

560
00:36:15,160 --> 00:36:16,680
Speaker 1: We're not doing any of the other thing. This is

561
00:36:16,840 --> 00:36:19,040
Speaker 1: we're not doing the other things. This is why I

562
00:36:19,080 --> 00:36:25,680
Speaker 1: get so I lose patience with this kind of precious

563
00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:29,399
Speaker 1: view of our moral responsibilities because it misses the point.

564
00:36:30,120 --> 00:36:33,239
Speaker 1: If you spend more than five minutes taking a look

565
00:36:33,280 --> 00:36:36,560
Speaker 1: at the way that Dorothy Thompson does and examining what's

566
00:36:36,560 --> 00:36:39,040
Speaker 1: going on there, you realize this is a deeply evil

567
00:36:39,040 --> 00:36:41,680
Speaker 1: man who we need to do something about, right, something

568
00:36:42,280 --> 00:36:45,840
Speaker 1: real about My point is, what kind of the games

569
00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:50,120
Speaker 1: is not real? It's just I'm sorry. It's a substitute

570
00:36:50,120 --> 00:36:52,040
Speaker 1: for actual behavior.

571
00:36:52,560 --> 00:36:55,520
Speaker 3: But it doesn't need to be a substitute. It's a

572
00:36:55,560 --> 00:36:57,920
Speaker 3: substitute if you take that action in bad faith.

573
00:36:58,800 --> 00:37:02,160
Speaker 1: But I think, I think any kind of useful reading

574
00:37:02,200 --> 00:37:05,120
Speaker 1: of human nature suggests that nine times out of ten,

575
00:37:05,680 --> 00:37:09,719
Speaker 1: symbolic actions discharge our responsibility, they don't turbo charge them.

576
00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:12,960
Speaker 3: I one hundred percent agree with that. However, what is

577
00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:17,000
Speaker 3: the connection between the daily reality that most of us

578
00:37:17,080 --> 00:37:20,880
Speaker 3: live and the systems level action? And the answer can't

579
00:37:20,880 --> 00:37:23,279
Speaker 3: be that there is no connection. That one of these

580
00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:25,920
Speaker 3: things happens in like the ether, and the other one

581
00:37:25,960 --> 00:37:27,759
Speaker 3: happens on the ground, and we can do whatever we

582
00:37:27,800 --> 00:37:29,799
Speaker 3: want on the ground because the thing is in the

583
00:37:29,800 --> 00:37:31,799
Speaker 3: ether is going to take care of itself, like there

584
00:37:31,880 --> 00:37:35,360
Speaker 3: is some obscure bridge between those two levels of existence.

585
00:37:35,840 --> 00:37:38,880
Speaker 3: And it might be that you yourself run for office

586
00:37:38,960 --> 00:37:41,640
Speaker 3: and then try and change things. But like, that isn't

587
00:37:41,640 --> 00:37:45,359
Speaker 3: the only way you can affect these issues, and one

588
00:37:45,400 --> 00:37:50,000
Speaker 3: of the ways, plausibly many boycotts absolute nonsense. A boycott

589
00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:52,120
Speaker 3: of the thirty six games based on what the Olympics

590
00:37:52,160 --> 00:37:54,239
Speaker 3: do for the nazis like that one probably would have

591
00:37:54,280 --> 00:37:58,000
Speaker 3: meant something. There are two sets of morally disingenuous actions,

592
00:37:58,200 --> 00:38:00,320
Speaker 3: one that actually happened and one that were just describing

593
00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:04,719
Speaker 3: that could have happened. And I would just prefer that

594
00:38:04,760 --> 00:38:08,720
Speaker 3: one the one in not going, maybe for like complicated reasons,

595
00:38:08,719 --> 00:38:10,319
Speaker 3: and then hope that it puts the right kind of

596
00:38:10,320 --> 00:38:13,839
Speaker 3: pressure on this sort of ethereal systems level realm which

597
00:38:13,880 --> 00:38:15,480
Speaker 3: is not taking the action it needs to do.

598
00:38:18,719 --> 00:38:29,000
Speaker 1: Ben and I do not agree three options absolutism, soft idealism, realism.

599
00:38:29,080 --> 00:38:33,600
Speaker 1: Are you going to fight, compromise or shrug? Is your

600
00:38:33,600 --> 00:38:39,480
Speaker 1: true north? Dorothy Thompson, Every Brandage or Billy Garland. The

601
00:38:39,560 --> 00:38:43,520
Speaker 1: absolutists end up in Taberville, playing to an empty stadium,

602
00:38:43,600 --> 00:38:47,320
Speaker 1: The quasi idealists end up with Hitler stealing their thunder,

603
00:38:47,680 --> 00:38:50,520
Speaker 1: and the realists give us the games, but with so

604
00:38:50,600 --> 00:38:54,160
Speaker 1: much Coca Cola and memorial t shirts and mixed use

605
00:38:54,320 --> 00:38:58,080
Speaker 1: urban construction that we forget why we wanted the Olympics

606
00:38:58,440 --> 00:39:08,640
Speaker 1: into first place. The last interview Ben and I did

607
00:39:08,680 --> 00:39:12,759
Speaker 1: for this series was in Los Angeles at UCLA with

608
00:39:12,880 --> 00:39:16,920
Speaker 1: Millan Tiff, that wonderful triple jumper who knew Jesse Owens.

609
00:39:17,280 --> 00:39:20,640
Speaker 1: It was hot, one of those hazy Los Angeles mornings.

610
00:39:21,040 --> 00:39:25,600
Speaker 1: A helicopter was hovering somewhere overhead. We were standing on

611
00:39:25,640 --> 00:39:28,759
Speaker 1: the track at Drake Stadium, right by the long jump pit.

612
00:39:29,400 --> 00:39:32,080
Speaker 1: They were a handful of athletes milling about, and then

613
00:39:32,320 --> 00:39:35,319
Speaker 1: a young woman came running past us. She was doing

614
00:39:35,360 --> 00:39:39,120
Speaker 1: two hundred meter intervals halfway around the track, hard with

615
00:39:39,200 --> 00:39:44,719
Speaker 1: a jog recovery, around and around and around, and she

616
00:39:44,880 --> 00:39:49,160
Speaker 1: was magical. Ben's not a track and field obsessive like

617
00:39:49,239 --> 00:39:51,720
Speaker 1: I am. I wanted Ben to see what I was seeing.

618
00:39:52,239 --> 00:39:54,160
Speaker 1: I want to see where how beautiful runners are. I

619
00:39:54,160 --> 00:39:56,040
Speaker 1: don't know see she's gonna run for us, but you

620
00:39:56,080 --> 00:39:59,800
Speaker 1: see her sprinting, it's just like it's just like unlike

621
00:40:00,400 --> 00:40:02,480
Speaker 1: any running you. I don't know who she is, but

622
00:40:02,600 --> 00:40:04,759
Speaker 1: she's a real runner. If she washed, her run just

623
00:40:04,840 --> 00:40:09,359
Speaker 1: a gorgeous and she was flying. Most people have seen

624
00:40:09,440 --> 00:40:12,280
Speaker 1: runners at high school track meets, or maybe world class

625
00:40:12,320 --> 00:40:17,279
Speaker 1: athletes on television. But to really appreciate this kind of performance,

626
00:40:18,000 --> 00:40:20,480
Speaker 1: you have to witness it in real life up close,

627
00:40:20,800 --> 00:40:23,839
Speaker 1: like we were at eye level five feet away. Then

628
00:40:23,880 --> 00:40:26,240
Speaker 1: you can see the full beauty of what a human

629
00:40:26,280 --> 00:40:31,840
Speaker 1: being can do, propelling themselves with such elegance and effortlessness.

630
00:40:32,440 --> 00:40:36,160
Speaker 1: Just the tap tap tap of their shoes landing lightly

631
00:40:36,200 --> 00:40:39,360
Speaker 1: on the track, you can just tell what someone's I

632
00:40:39,360 --> 00:40:44,040
Speaker 1: don't know who she is. Then Milan Tiff said, that's

633
00:40:44,120 --> 00:40:52,000
Speaker 1: Sidney MacLaughlin. Sidney McLaughlin, Sydney McLaughlin, Lavroney, two time Olympic

634
00:40:52,000 --> 00:40:56,080
Speaker 1: gold medalists in the forumder Beater hurdles, the world record holder,

635
00:40:56,239 --> 00:41:00,160
Speaker 1: one of the greatest sprinters in history. We walked towards her.

636
00:41:00,600 --> 00:41:02,920
Speaker 1: I felt the way an art student would feel if

637
00:41:02,960 --> 00:41:05,879
Speaker 1: they randomly ran into Picasso on the street. No, that's

638
00:41:05,920 --> 00:41:07,920
Speaker 1: not quite right. I felt the way an art student

639
00:41:07,920 --> 00:41:10,960
Speaker 1: would feel if they stumbled across some amazing painting at

640
00:41:10,960 --> 00:41:14,640
Speaker 1: a garage sale, stared at it in awe and then

641
00:41:14,719 --> 00:41:19,560
Speaker 1: realized it's a Picasso. We were standing right next to her,

642
00:41:19,760 --> 00:41:21,759
Speaker 1: so I started to whisper, to try and play a

643
00:41:21,800 --> 00:41:24,240
Speaker 1: cool as soon as I thought she was much taller.

644
00:41:25,080 --> 00:41:27,080
Speaker 1: She's one of the greatest female athletes. I was like,

645
00:41:29,280 --> 00:41:30,959
Speaker 1: I mean, I can't believe I didn't.

646
00:41:31,000 --> 00:41:31,319
Speaker 3: I didn't.

647
00:41:31,320 --> 00:41:32,799
Speaker 1: It didn't ever occurred to me that it was full.

648
00:41:34,160 --> 00:41:36,640
Speaker 1: Ben and I had spent months trying to solve the

649
00:41:36,680 --> 00:41:39,960
Speaker 1: moral puzzle presented by the Berlin Olympics, trying to see

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00:41:40,080 --> 00:41:44,360
Speaker 1: clearly through the fog of nineteen thirty six, first should

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00:41:44,360 --> 00:41:47,880
Speaker 1: we go? And then, more importantly, if you have ideals,

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Speaker 1: how do you hold onto them in an ugly, messy world?

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00:41:52,360 --> 00:41:56,120
Speaker 1: And that day at the UCLA track, by some miraculous

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00:41:56,120 --> 00:41:59,360
Speaker 1: twist of fate, we got a glimpse of the Sublime

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00:42:00,200 --> 00:42:04,120
Speaker 1: gliding past us, clear as day, close enough to touch,

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00:42:05,200 --> 00:42:15,160
Speaker 1: showing us the way. We will have many more arguments

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00:42:15,160 --> 00:42:17,680
Speaker 1: in the future, just as we had in nineteen thirty six.

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Speaker 1: We continued to live in a very impure place, and

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00:42:21,680 --> 00:42:26,520
Speaker 1: we should have those arguments. That's our job to engage

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00:42:26,560 --> 00:42:29,040
Speaker 1: with what is difficult, to try and pick a safe

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00:42:29,080 --> 00:42:33,480
Speaker 1: path through the minefield. But the epiphany I had as

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Speaker 1: Sidney McLaughlin swept past us is that we need to

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00:42:36,719 --> 00:42:41,320
Speaker 1: be clear about what we're arguing. For Charles Cheryl was

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Speaker 1: protecting some archaic notion of amateurism. Avery Brundage was furthering

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00:42:47,480 --> 00:42:51,959
Speaker 1: his own ambitions. Jesse Owens was navigating the impossible complexity

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00:42:52,320 --> 00:42:55,800
Speaker 1: of life as a black man. Billy Garland just wanted

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00:42:55,800 --> 00:43:00,000
Speaker 1: to build stuff. Altogether, they loaded up the Olympic movement

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Speaker 1: and with so much excess baggage that it's a miracle

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Speaker 1: that didn't sing and we don't need any of it.

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00:43:06,520 --> 00:43:09,480
Speaker 1: It's just getting in the way. The pure place that

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00:43:09,560 --> 00:43:12,520
Speaker 1: everyone was looking for is not a country or a city.

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00:43:13,200 --> 00:43:16,480
Speaker 1: It's a feeling. It's the awe that comes from watching

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00:43:16,520 --> 00:43:22,000
Speaker 1: someone perform an athletic feat better and faster than anyone else.

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Speaker 3: What's the right to the line? Sidney MacLaughlin is bringing

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00:43:25,840 --> 00:43:28,480
Speaker 3: it to the La La. Muhammed Mohammad's trying to hold

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00:43:28,520 --> 00:43:32,120
Speaker 3: on McLoughlin on the inside to the line. That's gonna

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00:43:32,120 --> 00:43:35,480
Speaker 3: be Sidney's time again. That's a long record again.

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Speaker 8: My Cloughlin.

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Speaker 1: Orisionist History is produced by Benda daf Haffrey, Tolly Emmlin

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00:43:53,640 --> 00:43:57,399
Speaker 1: and Nina Bird Lawrence. Our editor is Sarah Nix. Fact

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00:43:57,480 --> 00:44:02,160
Speaker 1: checking by Arthur Gomberts and Jail Goldfine. Original scoring by

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Speaker 1: Luis Kara, Mastering by Sarah Bruger and Jake Krsky, Engineering

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Speaker 1: by Nina Bird Lawrence. Our executive producer is Jacob Smith.

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Speaker 1: Special thanks to Karen Schakerji. Additional thanks to Michael Yushinsky,

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Speaker 1: Meredith Rawlins, Michael Specter and Michael Linton at Pushkin. Special

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Speaker 1: thanks to Jake Flanagan, Owen Miller, Eric Sandler, Kira Posey,

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Speaker 1: Jordan McMillan, Nicole opten Bosch and Brian Schrebnick, Christina Sullivan,

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Speaker 1: Kerry Brody and Greta Come. I'm Malcolm Glapnow