1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 2 00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 3 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:12,079 Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A 4 00:00:12,200 --> 00:00:25,520 Speaker 1: production of My Heart Brading. Welcome back to the show. 5 00:00:25,640 --> 00:00:28,960 Speaker 1: My name is Matt Noel is on Adventures and we'll 6 00:00:29,000 --> 00:00:32,479 Speaker 1: be returning soon. They call me Ben. We're joined as 7 00:00:32,520 --> 00:00:37,000 Speaker 1: always with our super producer Paul Mission Control decond. Most importantly, 8 00:00:37,159 --> 00:00:40,320 Speaker 1: you are you. You are here, and that makes this 9 00:00:40,800 --> 00:00:44,559 Speaker 1: stuff they don't want you to know. Uh, Matt, you know, 10 00:00:44,720 --> 00:00:49,640 Speaker 1: I was having a bit of a un characteristic wave 11 00:00:49,800 --> 00:00:54,080 Speaker 1: of nostalgia over this past weekend and before we went 12 00:00:54,120 --> 00:00:57,000 Speaker 1: on air. It's weird because it seems like once again 13 00:00:57,080 --> 00:00:59,520 Speaker 1: you were reading my mind when you talked about our 14 00:01:00,080 --> 00:01:03,360 Speaker 1: our YouTube channel. It's it's strange when you think that, 15 00:01:04,040 --> 00:01:08,479 Speaker 1: like we used to do so many videos. I know 16 00:01:08,959 --> 00:01:14,040 Speaker 1: that it consumed our lives for several years there, both 17 00:01:14,520 --> 00:01:17,440 Speaker 1: before and after we got our own channel, which by 18 00:01:17,440 --> 00:01:22,160 Speaker 1: the way is YouTube dot com slash conspiracy stuff. If 19 00:01:22,200 --> 00:01:24,360 Speaker 1: you haven't checked it out recently, you should go check 20 00:01:24,400 --> 00:01:27,080 Speaker 1: it out. And we'd actually like for you to to 21 00:01:27,520 --> 00:01:31,040 Speaker 1: run a little test for us. Use your favorite Internet 22 00:01:31,040 --> 00:01:36,080 Speaker 1: search engine, perhaps the duck duck go perhaps Google, Yahoo, whatever, 23 00:01:36,880 --> 00:01:39,800 Speaker 1: and search for stuff they don't want you to know 24 00:01:40,200 --> 00:01:44,440 Speaker 1: YouTube and see what comes up. Because we we found, 25 00:01:44,440 --> 00:01:46,840 Speaker 1: at least on our end, that Google seems to have 26 00:01:47,880 --> 00:01:52,080 Speaker 1: forgotten about our channel, which is you know, it's kind 27 00:01:52,080 --> 00:01:56,200 Speaker 1: of flattering to imagine that, um, that channel, which has 28 00:01:56,240 --> 00:01:59,240 Speaker 1: been inactive for a while, at least up to now. 29 00:02:00,040 --> 00:02:02,600 Speaker 1: It's kind of flattering to imagine that entity as large 30 00:02:02,640 --> 00:02:06,120 Speaker 1: as Google would care about that. Uh. You know, to me, 31 00:02:06,280 --> 00:02:10,440 Speaker 1: that indicates that we we were doing something right. Now granted, 32 00:02:10,480 --> 00:02:14,720 Speaker 1: well we were either doing something right or you know, 33 00:02:15,240 --> 00:02:18,640 Speaker 1: they're they're categorizing us in the same way as some 34 00:02:18,720 --> 00:02:20,680 Speaker 1: of these other people who have been taken off of 35 00:02:20,720 --> 00:02:24,880 Speaker 1: YouTube and other platforms recently. Mm hmmm, yeah, you know. 36 00:02:25,040 --> 00:02:29,800 Speaker 1: I predict that as things become more unstable in the 37 00:02:29,840 --> 00:02:34,400 Speaker 1: near to mid future, we're going to see um, increasingly 38 00:02:34,440 --> 00:02:39,640 Speaker 1: heavy handed use of censorship and surveillance powers. But that 39 00:02:40,560 --> 00:02:44,200 Speaker 1: is uh to to tweak the old figure of speech. 40 00:02:44,320 --> 00:02:46,280 Speaker 1: That's a bridge will burn when we get there, you 41 00:02:46,320 --> 00:02:50,639 Speaker 1: know what I mean. Uh, For now, I UM, I've 42 00:02:50,639 --> 00:02:55,240 Speaker 1: got to say I'm tremendously grateful, uh for every one 43 00:02:55,280 --> 00:02:58,000 Speaker 1: of our fellow listeners who has been writing to us 44 00:02:58,040 --> 00:03:00,640 Speaker 1: and and telling us about all these straight change things 45 00:03:00,720 --> 00:03:05,919 Speaker 1: that aren't making it into the news. Uh. For years 46 00:03:05,960 --> 00:03:09,600 Speaker 1: and years, you and I have always wanted to cover 47 00:03:09,880 --> 00:03:12,200 Speaker 1: the things that are just off the edge of the 48 00:03:12,240 --> 00:03:16,320 Speaker 1: mainstream map, the things that the regions of the map 49 00:03:16,400 --> 00:03:20,320 Speaker 1: where cartographers of old would draw some serpents and say, 50 00:03:20,440 --> 00:03:24,040 Speaker 1: here be dragons, things that are just like outside the 51 00:03:24,600 --> 00:03:27,720 Speaker 1: pool of the street light. And we've only been able 52 00:03:27,760 --> 00:03:30,640 Speaker 1: to do it this long because we have help from 53 00:03:30,800 --> 00:03:35,520 Speaker 1: the best part of the show, which is specifically you. Uh. So, 54 00:03:35,520 --> 00:03:38,280 Speaker 1: So what better way to put our money where our 55 00:03:38,320 --> 00:03:43,480 Speaker 1: mouth is than to uh than to explore an episode 56 00:03:43,600 --> 00:03:46,640 Speaker 1: topic brought to us by one of our fellow listeners. 57 00:03:47,160 --> 00:03:52,520 Speaker 1: That is correct, one of you, who hopefully is listening 58 00:03:52,560 --> 00:03:56,760 Speaker 1: to this episode send us a little voice message and 59 00:03:56,840 --> 00:04:01,000 Speaker 1: it goes a little something like this, No, this is 60 00:04:01,040 --> 00:04:04,320 Speaker 1: weird West in Miami. Have a question. You don't think 61 00:04:04,360 --> 00:04:08,280 Speaker 1: the thought that me Google is a topa because it's 62 00:04:08,480 --> 00:04:12,640 Speaker 1: found its own tatience that it's there that is something 63 00:04:12,800 --> 00:04:17,599 Speaker 1: to it. Also, look at the tables fall done see 64 00:04:17,680 --> 00:04:23,200 Speaker 1: you Okay, first thing here weird wes uh And we 65 00:04:23,320 --> 00:04:25,200 Speaker 1: did not do this on purpose. Ben and I did 66 00:04:25,200 --> 00:04:29,080 Speaker 1: not discuss this prior to recording this episode. You just 67 00:04:29,240 --> 00:04:34,040 Speaker 1: asked if Google was a tulpa of some sort, some 68 00:04:34,160 --> 00:04:36,719 Speaker 1: kind of thought form that had sentience that could act 69 00:04:36,760 --> 00:04:40,240 Speaker 1: on its own. We did not. I didn't. I don't 70 00:04:40,240 --> 00:04:42,680 Speaker 1: know if Ben, if you listen to that voicemail right 71 00:04:42,720 --> 00:04:45,440 Speaker 1: before this or something. I didn't do this on purpose. 72 00:04:46,680 --> 00:04:50,200 Speaker 1: Now I'm thinking the tulpa that is Google is trying 73 00:04:50,200 --> 00:04:54,080 Speaker 1: to bring us down from from a YouTube standpoint. At least, 74 00:04:54,240 --> 00:04:58,680 Speaker 1: I'm fascinated by the idea. For anyone who is unfamiliar. 75 00:04:59,040 --> 00:05:04,320 Speaker 1: Tulpa is this concept that a a life form can 76 00:05:04,360 --> 00:05:10,120 Speaker 1: exist without a physical body, an a sentient thought or 77 00:05:10,240 --> 00:05:13,400 Speaker 1: collection of thoughts, or an algorithms. So you know, in 78 00:05:13,440 --> 00:05:17,560 Speaker 1: a way, a software program that reaches the level of 79 00:05:17,600 --> 00:05:20,920 Speaker 1: machine consciousness could be a talpa. Uh. And you know, 80 00:05:21,000 --> 00:05:25,560 Speaker 1: the aggregation of algorithms that are Google could in some 81 00:05:25,600 --> 00:05:28,920 Speaker 1: ways be considered a tolpa. I've got a really weird, 82 00:05:29,440 --> 00:05:31,560 Speaker 1: uh story. I'll have to I'll have to send you 83 00:05:31,640 --> 00:05:34,440 Speaker 1: off air. I've been writing a bunch of garbage, but 84 00:05:34,440 --> 00:05:37,920 Speaker 1: I've got really weird story about a world in which 85 00:05:38,320 --> 00:05:42,760 Speaker 1: emotions shared between two or more people can become sentient, 86 00:05:42,920 --> 00:05:46,680 Speaker 1: and it's it's totally it's a TOLPA situation. I started 87 00:05:46,680 --> 00:05:48,360 Speaker 1: off trying to write it as a rom com, but 88 00:05:48,400 --> 00:05:51,360 Speaker 1: I'm terrible at rom com, so it became yet another 89 00:05:51,400 --> 00:05:53,760 Speaker 1: horror story. But you're right, You're right, Matt. It's a 90 00:05:53,800 --> 00:05:58,360 Speaker 1: fascinating concept, and it's a concept that we have, I believe, 91 00:05:58,440 --> 00:06:00,920 Speaker 1: explored in in the past. The little bit. But there 92 00:06:00,960 --> 00:06:05,080 Speaker 1: was one thing West said, one thing you said weird 93 00:06:05,120 --> 00:06:11,599 Speaker 1: West in Wyoming that I think Matt and I really like, 94 00:06:11,720 --> 00:06:15,039 Speaker 1: really tuned into because it was something that we had 95 00:06:15,120 --> 00:06:19,159 Speaker 1: never heard of, which is admittedly, I don't want to 96 00:06:19,160 --> 00:06:23,799 Speaker 1: say rare, but it's admittedly uncommon for us. That is correct, 97 00:06:24,320 --> 00:06:26,599 Speaker 1: that little thing, a little throwaway you had at the 98 00:06:26,640 --> 00:06:29,560 Speaker 1: end of the message that just said, hey, looking look 99 00:06:29,600 --> 00:06:34,480 Speaker 1: into the Tatum salt mines. Bye uh yeah dude. But 100 00:06:34,520 --> 00:06:37,560 Speaker 1: Ben and I both and Nol actually we all just went, wait, 101 00:06:37,600 --> 00:06:42,440 Speaker 1: what is that? And we started using Google the TLPA 102 00:06:42,920 --> 00:06:46,719 Speaker 1: now that we've established that to your search to search 103 00:06:46,960 --> 00:06:50,559 Speaker 1: things about it, and my goodness, we found an entire 104 00:06:50,680 --> 00:06:54,680 Speaker 1: episode hidden deep within those salt mines, and I like, 105 00:06:54,800 --> 00:06:57,400 Speaker 1: I liked the waxing poetic there at the end that 106 00:06:58,200 --> 00:07:01,920 Speaker 1: it's true on multiple levels. Today's episode is inspired by 107 00:07:01,960 --> 00:07:06,440 Speaker 1: you Weird West in Wyoming. You contacted us about a strange, 108 00:07:06,880 --> 00:07:10,840 Speaker 1: largely unknown events that occurred right here in the good 109 00:07:10,880 --> 00:07:14,440 Speaker 1: old us of a. It's a bit of hidden history. 110 00:07:15,360 --> 00:07:18,640 Speaker 1: It's a story the Jedi won't tell you. It concerns 111 00:07:18,720 --> 00:07:22,080 Speaker 1: one of the most powerful, one of the most dangerous 112 00:07:22,120 --> 00:07:27,840 Speaker 1: forces ever wielded by human hands, nuclear power. Here are 113 00:07:28,040 --> 00:07:30,640 Speaker 1: the facts. Before we jump into this, I just want 114 00:07:30,680 --> 00:07:33,520 Speaker 1: to point out that Ben, you and Noel got to 115 00:07:33,560 --> 00:07:35,760 Speaker 1: do a bit of a nuclear story while I was 116 00:07:35,800 --> 00:07:38,440 Speaker 1: out recently, and now Nolah is out and you and 117 00:07:38,480 --> 00:07:41,360 Speaker 1: I get to do a nuclear story and I'm liking this. 118 00:07:42,040 --> 00:07:45,600 Speaker 1: That's true. That's true. Uh. And they're they're very they're 119 00:07:45,720 --> 00:07:53,520 Speaker 1: very different as well, um, but disturbing, absolutely so. One 120 00:07:53,520 --> 00:07:56,640 Speaker 1: of the major things here as we begin into the 121 00:07:56,680 --> 00:08:01,040 Speaker 1: facts is just to talk about nuclear hour within the 122 00:08:01,120 --> 00:08:05,600 Speaker 1: United States. And you know, I would I would wager 123 00:08:05,720 --> 00:08:08,240 Speaker 1: that there are several of you out there listening who 124 00:08:08,320 --> 00:08:12,720 Speaker 1: remember the protesting that occurred within this country when nuclear 125 00:08:12,720 --> 00:08:17,280 Speaker 1: power plants were beginning to be constructed across the states 126 00:08:17,920 --> 00:08:20,560 Speaker 1: in various places that were deemed to be you know, 127 00:08:20,960 --> 00:08:24,600 Speaker 1: good places for these things because they were safer there, 128 00:08:24,640 --> 00:08:27,960 Speaker 1: you know. But but like a lot of the other 129 00:08:28,000 --> 00:08:31,520 Speaker 1: protests that have occurred for various things in this country 130 00:08:31,640 --> 00:08:35,160 Speaker 1: across time, they you know, appear to have done very 131 00:08:35,200 --> 00:08:39,360 Speaker 1: little and actually preventing things from happening. And in this case, 132 00:08:39,480 --> 00:08:44,000 Speaker 1: nuclear power plants from being built and or nuclear tests 133 00:08:44,040 --> 00:08:47,840 Speaker 1: from being run. And a lot of this is because 134 00:08:47,840 --> 00:08:51,280 Speaker 1: there there are some tremendously beneficial things that can come 135 00:08:51,320 --> 00:08:54,640 Speaker 1: from something like nuclear power that you know, isn't just 136 00:08:54,720 --> 00:08:58,199 Speaker 1: your traditional burning of coal or other fossil fuels or 137 00:08:58,559 --> 00:09:02,800 Speaker 1: natural gases or something like that. Um. The and and 138 00:09:02,960 --> 00:09:07,040 Speaker 1: these benefits many times, let's say almost all the time, 139 00:09:07,160 --> 00:09:10,199 Speaker 1: are going to outweigh the dangers, at least if you're 140 00:09:10,240 --> 00:09:12,959 Speaker 1: looking at it from a monetary standpoint, from a clean 141 00:09:13,120 --> 00:09:18,040 Speaker 1: energy standpoint or a cleanish energy standpoint. Um. And you 142 00:09:18,120 --> 00:09:21,480 Speaker 1: know the dollar signs. Really that's what speaks to the 143 00:09:21,520 --> 00:09:27,360 Speaker 1: most benefits. Rights. Yes, make no mistake, Uh. The vast 144 00:09:27,400 --> 00:09:31,760 Speaker 1: majority of large scale actions that occur like this, especially 145 00:09:31,760 --> 00:09:34,520 Speaker 1: in the energy industry, are the results of a cost 146 00:09:34,520 --> 00:09:39,280 Speaker 1: benefit calculation. Uh, the same way that we all individually 147 00:09:39,520 --> 00:09:44,040 Speaker 1: use cost benefit logic in our own daily lives. UH. 148 00:09:44,080 --> 00:09:49,440 Speaker 1: This just affects people in many, many unforeseen ways. So 149 00:09:49,480 --> 00:09:53,040 Speaker 1: the protesters failed. Let's just be honest, the protesters failed. 150 00:09:53,280 --> 00:09:57,960 Speaker 1: According to the World Nuclear Association, as of now, the 151 00:09:58,040 --> 00:10:02,760 Speaker 1: United States is the world largest producer of nuclear power 152 00:10:03,160 --> 00:10:08,600 Speaker 1: a single country out of the one ninety three ish 153 00:10:09,080 --> 00:10:13,360 Speaker 1: countries in the world. UH. It produces more than thirty 154 00:10:13,400 --> 00:10:18,240 Speaker 1: percent of all of the nuclear generated electricity on the planet, 155 00:10:18,679 --> 00:10:22,480 Speaker 1: full stop. And this is the result of a concerted 156 00:10:22,520 --> 00:10:27,080 Speaker 1: effort that goes across both sides of the political divide 157 00:10:27,080 --> 00:10:29,960 Speaker 1: in the US. Multiple companies are on board with it, 158 00:10:30,040 --> 00:10:33,559 Speaker 1: even if they compete with each other. Government policy changes 159 00:10:33,640 --> 00:10:37,280 Speaker 1: since about the late ninety nineties paved the way for 160 00:10:37,400 --> 00:10:42,320 Speaker 1: a significant rise in nuclear capacity, and as of now, 161 00:10:42,760 --> 00:10:48,400 Speaker 1: Uncle Sam officially has ninety eight nuclear power centers there 162 00:10:48,400 --> 00:10:53,120 Speaker 1: across thirty states and they're operated by a group of 163 00:10:53,760 --> 00:10:59,240 Speaker 1: around thirty maybe more different power companies. And just like Ben, 164 00:10:59,360 --> 00:11:03,199 Speaker 1: you and all discovered when covering the Santa Susanna experiment 165 00:11:03,280 --> 00:11:06,840 Speaker 1: recently that occurred out in California where some of this 166 00:11:06,920 --> 00:11:09,679 Speaker 1: nuclear power was being generated and tested to see if 167 00:11:09,720 --> 00:11:12,880 Speaker 1: there are new ways to generate the power, and something 168 00:11:12,920 --> 00:11:16,360 Speaker 1: went wrong. We we we have to remember that these things, 169 00:11:17,280 --> 00:11:20,959 Speaker 1: if something does go wrong, the consequences are massive. Right. 170 00:11:21,240 --> 00:11:24,240 Speaker 1: So it's that's when you're getting back into that cost 171 00:11:24,320 --> 00:11:30,800 Speaker 1: benefit analysis. Uh, nuclear power can be terrifying. Uh, there's 172 00:11:30,840 --> 00:11:33,959 Speaker 1: We're gonna look right here at words from an author 173 00:11:34,000 --> 00:11:38,199 Speaker 1: Benjamin Ksva cool Uh. He wrote a critical evaluation of 174 00:11:38,280 --> 00:11:42,120 Speaker 1: nuclear power and renewable Electricity in Asia. It was written 175 00:11:42,120 --> 00:11:45,840 Speaker 1: in two thousand. Uh. This guy says that there have 176 00:11:45,960 --> 00:11:50,000 Speaker 1: been at least fifties six nuclear reactor accidents within the 177 00:11:50,120 --> 00:11:55,520 Speaker 1: United States. That seems like more than I've heard of, right, 178 00:11:56,160 --> 00:11:59,080 Speaker 1: So you know what he's saying is that there are 179 00:11:59,720 --> 00:12:04,280 Speaker 1: there's a large scale here in what could be called 180 00:12:04,360 --> 00:12:07,840 Speaker 1: a nuclear accident, right because the definition it covers a 181 00:12:07,880 --> 00:12:10,120 Speaker 1: wide range of things that could go wrong and that 182 00:12:10,280 --> 00:12:13,880 Speaker 1: have go wrong. But there are some commonalities here with 183 00:12:14,000 --> 00:12:19,800 Speaker 1: all fifty six of these that Benjamin is pointing to. Yeah, yeah, absolutely, 184 00:12:19,960 --> 00:12:25,000 Speaker 1: the these fifty six accidents, again, that's a huge number, 185 00:12:25,120 --> 00:12:29,520 Speaker 1: by the way. Uh, these these fifty accidents, fifty six accidents, 186 00:12:30,440 --> 00:12:33,560 Speaker 1: all have two things in common. They either resulted in 187 00:12:33,800 --> 00:12:37,720 Speaker 1: an immediate loss of human life and immedia is important 188 00:12:37,720 --> 00:12:41,160 Speaker 1: there we'll see why or they cause more than fifty 189 00:12:41,200 --> 00:12:44,960 Speaker 1: thou dollars US worth of property damage. That last parts 190 00:12:45,160 --> 00:12:49,840 Speaker 1: very interesting to me because fifty thou dollars is far 191 00:12:49,960 --> 00:12:52,960 Speaker 1: more than the average US resident is going to have 192 00:12:53,120 --> 00:12:56,240 Speaker 1: on hands right, just to pull out and use. But 193 00:12:56,480 --> 00:13:01,559 Speaker 1: it's also a cartoonishly low thresh old when we consider 194 00:13:01,720 --> 00:13:07,480 Speaker 1: the overall cost of specialized nuclear equipment, particularly because that 195 00:13:07,640 --> 00:13:11,880 Speaker 1: specialized equipment is inevitably gonna be some of the first 196 00:13:11,920 --> 00:13:16,760 Speaker 1: stuff damaged when things go south. And you know, again 197 00:13:17,720 --> 00:13:22,400 Speaker 1: you you should be weirded out by that how high 198 00:13:22,400 --> 00:13:26,200 Speaker 1: that number is of proven nuclear incidents in the US 199 00:13:26,320 --> 00:13:33,040 Speaker 1: nuclear meltdown's disasters malfunctions. But there's one you're definitely familiar with. 200 00:13:33,120 --> 00:13:37,480 Speaker 1: It's one that Nolan I mentioned in our previous episode, uh, 201 00:13:37,480 --> 00:13:41,640 Speaker 1: and that is Three Mile Island. Three Mile Island, for 202 00:13:41,679 --> 00:13:45,360 Speaker 1: a quick recap, was a partial core meltdown at the 203 00:13:45,440 --> 00:13:50,920 Speaker 1: Three Mile Island Nuclear plant on March nine, and it, 204 00:13:51,679 --> 00:13:53,880 Speaker 1: you know, it's safe to say it exceeded that fifty 205 00:13:54,240 --> 00:13:59,800 Speaker 1: dollar threshold. Yeah, the cleanup costs alone ranged somewhere with 206 00:13:59,880 --> 00:14:04,680 Speaker 1: the billion dollars, like as in Dr Evil, one billion 207 00:14:04,720 --> 00:14:09,080 Speaker 1: dollars in an estimated total of two point four billion 208 00:14:09,120 --> 00:14:12,960 Speaker 1: dollars in property damage that was done because as as 209 00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:16,839 Speaker 1: a result of this accident, and you know, over the years, 210 00:14:16,880 --> 00:14:20,040 Speaker 1: in in various forms of reporting, you're gonna hear all 211 00:14:20,080 --> 00:14:23,040 Speaker 1: kinds of different claims about the health effects, both short 212 00:14:23,160 --> 00:14:27,160 Speaker 1: term and long term of this disaster. But officially, a 213 00:14:27,200 --> 00:14:30,600 Speaker 1: lot of experts note that the health effects are of 214 00:14:30,720 --> 00:14:33,360 Speaker 1: a very low level, like as in, you know, not 215 00:14:33,480 --> 00:14:36,240 Speaker 1: much bad really happened on a human level because of 216 00:14:36,280 --> 00:14:39,880 Speaker 1: Three Mile Island. Guys, we're going to reassure you, just 217 00:14:39,920 --> 00:14:42,880 Speaker 1: to let you know everything's okay. You're gonna be okay, 218 00:14:42,920 --> 00:14:45,880 Speaker 1: your family is going to be fine. Not everyone agrees, 219 00:14:45,920 --> 00:14:50,080 Speaker 1: of course, because you know, even as recently as nineteen 220 00:14:50,200 --> 00:14:54,000 Speaker 1: seventy nine, uh, there there was a lot of debate 221 00:14:54,120 --> 00:14:59,160 Speaker 1: about the possible long term ramifications of of these sorts 222 00:14:59,160 --> 00:15:05,000 Speaker 1: of disasters, you know, or the possible long term consequences 223 00:15:05,040 --> 00:15:10,040 Speaker 1: to the life forms in their vicinity. Again officially, right, 224 00:15:10,120 --> 00:15:12,880 Speaker 1: this is all officially, and that's that's the problem with 225 00:15:13,000 --> 00:15:16,240 Speaker 1: nuclear reporting in general. Right. We threw out a couple 226 00:15:16,360 --> 00:15:19,640 Speaker 1: numbers just a few minutes ago, but if you remember 227 00:15:19,760 --> 00:15:23,760 Speaker 1: only one of those numbers, remember this one fifty six 228 00:15:23,840 --> 00:15:29,440 Speaker 1: incidents more than fifty times in this country nuclear power 229 00:15:29,760 --> 00:15:35,520 Speaker 1: almost or did go disastrously wrong. And even today there's 230 00:15:35,560 --> 00:15:38,880 Speaker 1: stuff the US does not want you to know when 231 00:15:38,960 --> 00:15:42,360 Speaker 1: it comes to nuclear power, and there's certainly stuff they 232 00:15:42,360 --> 00:15:45,480 Speaker 1: don't want you to know when it's turned from generating 233 00:15:45,560 --> 00:15:50,640 Speaker 1: nuclear power to detonating nuclear weapons within the United States. 234 00:15:51,280 --> 00:15:53,640 Speaker 1: What could go wrong if we did that? We'll find 235 00:15:53,640 --> 00:16:03,640 Speaker 1: out after a word from our sponsor. Here's where it 236 00:16:03,720 --> 00:16:08,240 Speaker 1: gets crazy. So here's the issue with nuclear technology. One 237 00:16:08,240 --> 00:16:12,680 Speaker 1: of the many issues nuclear technology is dual use. We've 238 00:16:12,680 --> 00:16:15,560 Speaker 1: talked about this before. It's one of the great dilemmas 239 00:16:15,560 --> 00:16:20,760 Speaker 1: and geopolitics. Please don't fall asleep just because we said 240 00:16:20,760 --> 00:16:24,520 Speaker 1: geo politics. Essentially, the same stuff you have to do 241 00:16:24,640 --> 00:16:27,840 Speaker 1: to create nuclear power is the same stuff you have 242 00:16:27,920 --> 00:16:31,120 Speaker 1: to do to make nuclear weapons. It's not not very 243 00:16:31,160 --> 00:16:34,800 Speaker 1: many efficient ways to tell the difference between a country's 244 00:16:34,840 --> 00:16:39,360 Speaker 1: aim here, because there's not really a difference in what 245 00:16:39,400 --> 00:16:40,920 Speaker 1: you need to do and what you need to have. 246 00:16:41,080 --> 00:16:45,040 Speaker 1: It's just how long you keep those centrifuges running. Really 247 00:16:45,040 --> 00:16:47,280 Speaker 1: what it is, That's what it amounts to, right, It's 248 00:16:47,280 --> 00:16:51,240 Speaker 1: a matter of iteration. That's that's really the only difference. 249 00:16:51,320 --> 00:16:55,560 Speaker 1: Like imagine if you were This might be a little 250 00:16:55,560 --> 00:16:57,360 Speaker 1: bit too off the grid for some of us, but 251 00:16:57,440 --> 00:17:00,600 Speaker 1: imagine if you were churning butter and after you know, 252 00:17:00,920 --> 00:17:03,680 Speaker 1: x amount of churns or x amount of time spin churning, 253 00:17:03,720 --> 00:17:06,280 Speaker 1: you had butter. But if you kept going, you had 254 00:17:06,320 --> 00:17:10,760 Speaker 1: a bomb. That's basically the problem with nuclear energy and 255 00:17:11,160 --> 00:17:15,680 Speaker 1: nuclear enrichment. Uh. And so this left the US many 256 00:17:15,680 --> 00:17:19,639 Speaker 1: other countries in a pickle because this meant that in theory, 257 00:17:20,040 --> 00:17:24,439 Speaker 1: any country with the ability to domestically create nuclear energy 258 00:17:24,760 --> 00:17:29,160 Speaker 1: would also domestically have the ability to make nuclear weapons, 259 00:17:29,240 --> 00:17:33,440 Speaker 1: and no one could stop them short of trying, short 260 00:17:33,480 --> 00:17:36,639 Speaker 1: of trusting them or like you know, doing a Reagan trust, 261 00:17:36,640 --> 00:17:40,560 Speaker 1: but verify watching how many times the centerfuges spin. It's 262 00:17:40,560 --> 00:17:44,160 Speaker 1: a very messy situation. So they got into this idea 263 00:17:44,440 --> 00:17:51,600 Speaker 1: of monitoring testing. Testing nuclear weapons is one one great 264 00:17:51,600 --> 00:17:54,400 Speaker 1: way to tell right what a country's true aims are. 265 00:17:54,680 --> 00:17:58,520 Speaker 1: It's like building a battleship. You can't test a nuclear 266 00:17:58,560 --> 00:18:01,720 Speaker 1: weapon and say you're doing anything other than that. You 267 00:18:01,760 --> 00:18:05,040 Speaker 1: can't build a battleship and say you're doing anything other 268 00:18:05,119 --> 00:18:09,040 Speaker 1: than attempting to build a blue Force navy and dominate 269 00:18:09,480 --> 00:18:12,879 Speaker 1: part of the ocean. So so the US said, we 270 00:18:12,920 --> 00:18:15,960 Speaker 1: need to figure out how these other countries are testing, 271 00:18:16,640 --> 00:18:19,920 Speaker 1: and just for our own pr we're gonna say that 272 00:18:20,000 --> 00:18:23,239 Speaker 1: we're doing this. This is dual use. We're gonna say 273 00:18:23,320 --> 00:18:26,480 Speaker 1: we're doing this just to make sure we know what 274 00:18:26,560 --> 00:18:30,720 Speaker 1: other countries are up to. It's defensive other countries was 275 00:18:30,760 --> 00:18:35,520 Speaker 1: widely suspected we're testing nuclear weapons underground, so that you 276 00:18:35,520 --> 00:18:39,560 Speaker 1: wouldn't from a satellite, for instance, you wouldn't see a 277 00:18:39,600 --> 00:18:44,160 Speaker 1: lot of atmospheric um you know, atmospheric anomalies. You wouldn't 278 00:18:44,160 --> 00:18:46,680 Speaker 1: have people on the ground noting, you know, like a 279 00:18:46,760 --> 00:18:51,280 Speaker 1: mushroom cloud miles away or something. Uh So they said, okay, 280 00:18:51,320 --> 00:18:54,360 Speaker 1: we're gonna assume people are doing this underground because that's 281 00:18:54,359 --> 00:18:58,000 Speaker 1: what we would do well exactly. And just to jump 282 00:18:58,040 --> 00:19:00,840 Speaker 1: back in time slightly, we're talking in about the sixties 283 00:19:00,880 --> 00:19:04,159 Speaker 1: and seventies here, but let's just jump back in time 284 00:19:04,680 --> 00:19:10,159 Speaker 1: to nineteen fifty four in March to something called Castle Bravo. 285 00:19:10,280 --> 00:19:14,240 Speaker 1: And just the reason why the United States took on this, 286 00:19:14,920 --> 00:19:18,760 Speaker 1: We're going to police the nuclear testing or possible nuclear 287 00:19:18,800 --> 00:19:22,800 Speaker 1: testing across the globe because we conducted a test in 288 00:19:22,840 --> 00:19:25,639 Speaker 1: the United States in a place called the Bikini, a 289 00:19:25,720 --> 00:19:28,760 Speaker 1: toll in the Marshall Islands. And like I said in 290 00:19:28,800 --> 00:19:33,880 Speaker 1: March first, nineteen fifty four, it was a massive explosion. 291 00:19:33,960 --> 00:19:37,919 Speaker 1: I believe it was fifteen mega tons. Uh. That was 292 00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:42,720 Speaker 1: the yield essentially um. And there were there was a 293 00:19:42,720 --> 00:19:45,800 Speaker 1: lot of fallout because of this nuclear test, like literally 294 00:19:45,960 --> 00:19:51,000 Speaker 1: and I guess pr lee because it caused a lot 295 00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:54,480 Speaker 1: of damage um And there was a lot of radiation 296 00:19:54,560 --> 00:19:58,200 Speaker 1: that spread further and in ways that we perhaps didn't expect. 297 00:19:58,800 --> 00:20:04,040 Speaker 1: And it was the cited globally at least between the 298 00:20:04,080 --> 00:20:06,680 Speaker 1: powers of the United States and the Soviet Union and 299 00:20:06,760 --> 00:20:12,120 Speaker 1: several other places that we would no longer test nuclear weapons, 300 00:20:12,160 --> 00:20:15,800 Speaker 1: like we're gonna stop. That's why. That's why the US 301 00:20:15,880 --> 00:20:19,880 Speaker 1: took on this role, right right, they said, we are 302 00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:23,520 Speaker 1: the we are the perfect people, uh to you know, 303 00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:29,119 Speaker 1: keep everyone honest here. Uh n. Also the same year 304 00:20:29,600 --> 00:20:36,360 Speaker 1: that Edward Burnes helped persuade the US to invade invade 305 00:20:36,359 --> 00:20:43,600 Speaker 1: Guatemala and launch a coup on behalf of private agricultural 306 00:20:43,760 --> 00:20:48,640 Speaker 1: sector businesses. It was a business coup. So shout out 307 00:20:48,680 --> 00:20:52,960 Speaker 1: to Hubernese, you monster. Uh. I'm still so impressed with 308 00:20:52,960 --> 00:20:54,960 Speaker 1: the guy, though you have to be you gotta respect 309 00:20:54,960 --> 00:20:58,120 Speaker 1: the hustle. But anyhow, you're right, you're absolutely right back. 310 00:20:58,160 --> 00:21:02,280 Speaker 1: There's there's a lot of precedents going to this, but 311 00:21:02,480 --> 00:21:06,639 Speaker 1: unfortunately the US was maybe not the best police officer. 312 00:21:06,840 --> 00:21:09,520 Speaker 1: Maybe it was just the least worst, you know, like 313 00:21:09,560 --> 00:21:12,879 Speaker 1: that's what people say about democracy, it's the least worst 314 00:21:13,040 --> 00:21:17,520 Speaker 1: system humans have come up with. But but the US, 315 00:21:17,640 --> 00:21:22,399 Speaker 1: like many other countries, blurred the line between testing for 316 00:21:23,119 --> 00:21:26,919 Speaker 1: nuclear power peaceful pursuits and testing for nuclear weaponry. And 317 00:21:26,960 --> 00:21:29,600 Speaker 1: that's why you'll notice that we caveated some of our 318 00:21:29,640 --> 00:21:33,560 Speaker 1: earlier statements by adding the O word. Officially, it's because 319 00:21:33,560 --> 00:21:36,920 Speaker 1: we have to. You see, the US, aside from Bikinia 320 00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:41,840 Speaker 1: tool it turns out the US conducted multiple nuclear tests 321 00:21:41,840 --> 00:21:45,080 Speaker 1: back in the day, some of which are still probably secret. 322 00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:50,479 Speaker 1: But weird West of Wyoming hipped US to several tests 323 00:21:50,480 --> 00:21:54,200 Speaker 1: that occurred in good old Mississippi. And at the time, 324 00:21:54,400 --> 00:21:57,960 Speaker 1: what's weird about this? These tests were not even secret. 325 00:21:58,040 --> 00:22:01,680 Speaker 1: The New York Times ran announcement about it that that 326 00:22:01,880 --> 00:22:05,760 Speaker 1: kind of aged like milk, because it's very it's very 327 00:22:05,960 --> 00:22:09,400 Speaker 1: like whoa, hey, look at this, where you know, nuclear 328 00:22:09,440 --> 00:22:12,719 Speaker 1: power is not what could go wrong? Uh, and you 329 00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:15,840 Speaker 1: can you can read the article and full online. But 330 00:22:15,840 --> 00:22:19,200 Speaker 1: but this project, well, the first thing I noticed about 331 00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:24,200 Speaker 1: this project met was that it had just a terrible name. 332 00:22:25,480 --> 00:22:32,320 Speaker 1: Talking about Project Dribble. I'm just drooling a little bit 333 00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:37,239 Speaker 1: thinking about it. Um. But yeah, this was this was 334 00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:42,080 Speaker 1: one of several tests that fell under this thing called 335 00:22:42,280 --> 00:22:46,639 Speaker 1: the Vela Uniform. This was a mission that was essentially 336 00:22:47,160 --> 00:22:51,320 Speaker 1: attempting to detect nuclear blasts. It ran from nineteen sixty 337 00:22:51,359 --> 00:22:55,199 Speaker 1: three to nineteen seventy one, and it was Yeah, the 338 00:22:55,320 --> 00:23:01,680 Speaker 1: VELA uh mission really was to detect blasts that occurred 339 00:23:01,840 --> 00:23:05,159 Speaker 1: on in air, blast that occurred on land, like above 340 00:23:05,240 --> 00:23:09,840 Speaker 1: the ground, underwater, blast that occurred even under the land, 341 00:23:10,240 --> 00:23:12,520 Speaker 1: like in a cave or something. He was trying to 342 00:23:12,560 --> 00:23:14,919 Speaker 1: figure out any of the ways that the United States 343 00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:18,280 Speaker 1: Forces military in this case, could detect whether or not 344 00:23:18,320 --> 00:23:21,560 Speaker 1: a nuclear blast had gone off anywhere in the world 345 00:23:21,760 --> 00:23:25,639 Speaker 1: at any altitude. Yeah, and this is similar to weather 346 00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:29,280 Speaker 1: balloon detection programs, you know, where we could maybe put 347 00:23:29,359 --> 00:23:31,960 Speaker 1: something high enough in the atmosphere that it would detect 348 00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:38,120 Speaker 1: certain changes indicative of a nuclear explosion. But figuring out 349 00:23:38,119 --> 00:23:41,600 Speaker 1: what was going on under our feet was almost more 350 00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:44,679 Speaker 1: important because that's where the really sneaky stuff can occur. 351 00:23:45,800 --> 00:23:51,240 Speaker 1: VELA uniform was overall seven different tests that we know about, 352 00:23:51,440 --> 00:23:55,680 Speaker 1: and not all of those tests were nuclear, but not one, 353 00:23:55,760 --> 00:24:01,760 Speaker 1: but two of the nuclear debtonations occurred just north of 354 00:24:01,800 --> 00:24:06,840 Speaker 1: a very small town in Lamar County, Mississippi, called Baxterville. 355 00:24:07,320 --> 00:24:11,480 Speaker 1: Baxterville is tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny um you know it's 356 00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:14,920 Speaker 1: it's kind of like that. Around the time this occurred, 357 00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:19,359 Speaker 1: Baxterville is what Garth Brooks would have called, uh a 358 00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:23,240 Speaker 1: one one stoplight town or something like that. I'm forgetting 359 00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:26,639 Speaker 1: my Garth Brooks, but but you know what I'm referencing 360 00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:33,119 Speaker 1: right anyway, Anyway, friends and little places aside, Baxterville was 361 00:24:33,119 --> 00:24:36,200 Speaker 1: about twenty eight miles and is twenty eight miles southwest 362 00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:40,200 Speaker 1: of Hattiesburg, which is probably the most recognizable town uh 363 00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:45,280 Speaker 1: in in the area. So the Powers that be chose 364 00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:50,720 Speaker 1: to detonate nuclear weapons in nearby Baxterville, where again people 365 00:24:50,760 --> 00:24:56,600 Speaker 1: did live because there was a distinctive geological feature there 366 00:24:56,640 --> 00:25:00,960 Speaker 1: called the Tatum Salt Dome. Also have to have to 367 00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:03,840 Speaker 1: mention it. I don't know if it's because I was 368 00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:08,040 Speaker 1: hungry when I was listening to your voicemail initially, West, 369 00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:10,399 Speaker 1: but I could have sworn. I could have sworn you 370 00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:15,800 Speaker 1: said potato salt dome, and and I just like started 371 00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:18,240 Speaker 1: imagine all the cool things you can do with potatoes. 372 00:25:18,280 --> 00:25:20,760 Speaker 1: But no, this is way less cool. This nuclear energy. 373 00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:23,800 Speaker 1: No joke, man, I googled. The first thing I googled 374 00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:27,000 Speaker 1: was potato salt dome. And I didn't know. I'm not joking. 375 00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:29,800 Speaker 1: I thought that's what it was too. And that's nothing 376 00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:32,520 Speaker 1: against us, is I just I was maybe having a 377 00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:34,639 Speaker 1: hard time understanding when I was listening on my phone 378 00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:39,360 Speaker 1: or something. Um, and perhaps it was also a bit ravenous. Um. 379 00:25:39,480 --> 00:25:45,720 Speaker 1: We're very carbon oriented, uh podcasts just like as a crew, 380 00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:49,800 Speaker 1: you know for sure, I really quickly, I just want 381 00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:51,640 Speaker 1: to go back. So we're talking about the Tatum salt dome. 382 00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:54,440 Speaker 1: We're gonna get into that, but I want to backtrack 383 00:25:54,600 --> 00:25:58,640 Speaker 1: just for a moment to make sure people understand that 384 00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:02,720 Speaker 1: the seven tests that were talking about with Vela uniform 385 00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:08,400 Speaker 1: were to test the sensor equipment that the Velor project 386 00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:12,439 Speaker 1: essentially was going to use to detect explosions elsewhere. So 387 00:26:12,520 --> 00:26:16,199 Speaker 1: in order to know that you can successfully detect an 388 00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:19,159 Speaker 1: underground nuclear explosion, let's say somewhere in the USS are 389 00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:23,840 Speaker 1: you need to first manufacture your own explosion to see Hey, 390 00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:27,320 Speaker 1: if they do one like this, can we see it? Yep? Okay, 391 00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:29,919 Speaker 1: So that was the point of this. I am not 392 00:26:29,960 --> 00:26:33,320 Speaker 1: sure if I explained that well enough prior to saying 393 00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:35,520 Speaker 1: it here. I think he yelled it. I think it's 394 00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:41,440 Speaker 1: important to to like highlight that because it's another instance 395 00:26:41,520 --> 00:26:46,040 Speaker 1: of dual use, isn't it. It would be naive to 396 00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:51,600 Speaker 1: assume that there would not be other other data, right, 397 00:26:51,720 --> 00:26:56,280 Speaker 1: other results that were monitored and pulled from again, these 398 00:26:56,359 --> 00:27:01,840 Speaker 1: det nations of nuclear weapons, right, And they spent a 399 00:27:01,840 --> 00:27:04,120 Speaker 1: lot of time thinking about this, As a matter of fact, 400 00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:06,840 Speaker 1: they spent a lot of time thinking about how to 401 00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:09,400 Speaker 1: set it up. But they did not spend a lot 402 00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:13,720 Speaker 1: of time on three big things. And that's what this 403 00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:17,760 Speaker 1: episode is about. First, they obviously, uh didn't spend a 404 00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:21,920 Speaker 1: lot of time thinking through what would actually happen when 405 00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:26,080 Speaker 1: you detonated nuclear They call it a nuclear device, but 406 00:27:26,119 --> 00:27:31,119 Speaker 1: when you detonate a nuclear bomb underground in an occupied area. Second, 407 00:27:31,320 --> 00:27:35,240 Speaker 1: they didn't think about the long term consequences aftermath or effects. 408 00:27:35,320 --> 00:27:40,719 Speaker 1: And third, they really phoned in the names. I can't. 409 00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:46,840 Speaker 1: I can't emphasize that enough. Project Dribble. The first test 410 00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:50,880 Speaker 1: is called the Salmon Events, which sounds like something your 411 00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:54,560 Speaker 1: local park ranger gets excited about once a year, you 412 00:27:54,600 --> 00:28:01,160 Speaker 1: know what I mean. Yeah, I think they were hungry too. Man. Well, 413 00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:04,000 Speaker 1: if we we mentioned the Tatum Salt Dome, why it's important, 414 00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:06,399 Speaker 1: I just can put this out here quickly. One of 415 00:28:06,440 --> 00:28:10,000 Speaker 1: the major reasons when they're you know, they're imagining what 416 00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:12,720 Speaker 1: another country might do when they were going to try 417 00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:16,080 Speaker 1: and test underground, they thought, well, if there was some 418 00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:20,879 Speaker 1: kind of salt dome or a an underground salt deposit 419 00:28:21,119 --> 00:28:25,520 Speaker 1: essentially somewhere on land, the authorities could put a bunch 420 00:28:25,560 --> 00:28:29,320 Speaker 1: of water into that salt deposit essentially, you know, turn 421 00:28:29,440 --> 00:28:34,800 Speaker 1: that that solid sodium into salt water, and create a 422 00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:38,480 Speaker 1: cavity underground where they could then place a bomb, explode 423 00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:41,600 Speaker 1: it and do some testing. Right. That was one of 424 00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:44,800 Speaker 1: the major reasons they chose this Tatum Salt Mine or 425 00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:48,560 Speaker 1: Tatum Salt Dome, right, yeah, yeah, yeah. It wasn't just 426 00:28:48,600 --> 00:28:53,360 Speaker 1: because it was cool, but it was because of the 427 00:28:53,360 --> 00:28:58,480 Speaker 1: the actual physical makeup of the dome. So they announced 428 00:28:58,520 --> 00:29:02,040 Speaker 1: this to their credit, unlike some other US tests on 429 00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:07,640 Speaker 1: domestic populations. And here's what they decided to do. On 430 00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:13,000 Speaker 1: October twenty two, after warning some residents in the area 431 00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:18,400 Speaker 1: about ten am nineteen sixty four, the authorities detonated a 432 00:29:18,520 --> 00:29:21,600 Speaker 1: five point three kilo ton device eight hundred and twenty 433 00:29:21,680 --> 00:29:26,920 Speaker 1: meters or two thousand, seven hundred feet underground. Real quick, 434 00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:29,719 Speaker 1: because I know we've thrown some words around here. Uh 435 00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:33,280 Speaker 1: kill A toon is one thousand tons, so this is 436 00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:37,640 Speaker 1: like five thousand, five thousand tons, and change a mega 437 00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:41,320 Speaker 1: ton like Matt you had mentioned with Bikini a toll 438 00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:45,120 Speaker 1: is one million tons, so this is smaller than Bikini 439 00:29:45,160 --> 00:29:50,280 Speaker 1: as toll. But again it is in a It's an 440 00:29:50,320 --> 00:29:54,360 Speaker 1: area where people were not expecting to encounter radiation and 441 00:29:54,440 --> 00:29:58,520 Speaker 1: nuclear disaster. So the first thing that goes wrong when 442 00:29:58,520 --> 00:30:01,760 Speaker 1: they detonate this at ton Am is that the explosion 443 00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:06,160 Speaker 1: is much much stronger than the residents had been told 444 00:30:06,200 --> 00:30:10,680 Speaker 1: it would be. The ground shook, a gigantic cloud of 445 00:30:10,760 --> 00:30:15,800 Speaker 1: dust rises. Uh, the thing you're hoping to avoid. Windows break, 446 00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:21,440 Speaker 1: walls crack fourteen miles away. Uh, wells go bad, run dry, 447 00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:24,280 Speaker 1: they clogged. This favorite story. I know you probably have 448 00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:26,440 Speaker 1: some too, Mat. One of my favorite stories is there's 449 00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:29,959 Speaker 1: a local fisherman who watches in amazement as all the 450 00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:35,000 Speaker 1: fish in this pond jump out of the water at once. Wow. Yeah, 451 00:30:35,040 --> 00:30:39,880 Speaker 1: I can't imagine seeing that. Uh wow. Well, you know 452 00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:43,280 Speaker 1: another thing that I can't imagine is the way a 453 00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:46,480 Speaker 1: lot of the local residents described what they saw, even 454 00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:50,440 Speaker 1: when they were miles away from ground zero. They this 455 00:30:50,520 --> 00:30:53,320 Speaker 1: is I'm just gonna paraphrase this, and there you can 456 00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:56,960 Speaker 1: go online and read a lot of firsthand accounts of 457 00:30:57,320 --> 00:31:03,720 Speaker 1: this test. Salmon. In particular, they noted that there were 458 00:31:03,880 --> 00:31:09,520 Speaker 1: ground ripples, like waves of the ground where it's estimates 459 00:31:09,560 --> 00:31:11,200 Speaker 1: now at this point, because a lot of this was 460 00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:16,800 Speaker 1: looking back, you know, fifty years after the incident, but 461 00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:20,280 Speaker 1: a lot of it they described as you know, maybe 462 00:31:20,320 --> 00:31:24,920 Speaker 1: three ft of ground let's say, now imagine five inches 463 00:31:25,320 --> 00:31:28,760 Speaker 1: of wave of that ground that you can see moving 464 00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:34,360 Speaker 1: essentially in a semicircular path towards you, um and actually 465 00:31:34,440 --> 00:31:37,160 Speaker 1: moving the ground and rippling it. There were some people 466 00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:40,200 Speaker 1: who said they were standing on concrete, and on the 467 00:31:40,240 --> 00:31:44,080 Speaker 1: concrete you could feel a wave of earth travel under 468 00:31:44,120 --> 00:31:47,920 Speaker 1: your feet, and then they would They described about ten 469 00:31:48,520 --> 00:31:52,720 Speaker 1: to fifteen seconds of of just quiet and nothing and 470 00:31:52,760 --> 00:31:55,880 Speaker 1: then another ripple, and then another eleven seconds or so, 471 00:31:55,960 --> 00:31:58,360 Speaker 1: and then a third ripple of the ground that you 472 00:31:58,360 --> 00:32:03,760 Speaker 1: could actually watch like that sounds otherworldly to me. M 473 00:32:04,760 --> 00:32:08,600 Speaker 1: Have you ever I remember we talked about this, man, 474 00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:12,080 Speaker 1: have you ever been in an earthquake or experienced one? 475 00:32:13,600 --> 00:32:17,840 Speaker 1: There have been several low, very very low level earthquakes 476 00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:20,280 Speaker 1: in Georgia that I have felt, And I didn't know 477 00:32:20,360 --> 00:32:22,320 Speaker 1: I was feeling until I woke up the next day 478 00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:25,000 Speaker 1: and read that there was a low level earthquake. But 479 00:32:25,280 --> 00:32:27,120 Speaker 1: you know, I've been to California a few times now 480 00:32:27,120 --> 00:32:29,640 Speaker 1: in my life, and I've never experienced anything big or 481 00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:34,760 Speaker 1: in any other place. Mm hmm. Yeah. It's it's a 482 00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:38,920 Speaker 1: it's an incredibly disorienting feeling, and it's one of those 483 00:32:38,920 --> 00:32:42,920 Speaker 1: things where all of a sudden you recognize how powerless 484 00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:47,280 Speaker 1: we as individuals can be. When I was when I 485 00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:51,320 Speaker 1: was living in Central America, I looked like honestly, man, 486 00:32:51,360 --> 00:32:54,040 Speaker 1: I looked like a wist. The first couple of times, 487 00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:58,040 Speaker 1: you know, I was at this family's uh, this family's 488 00:32:58,080 --> 00:33:02,040 Speaker 1: residents where you know, we're rinking instant coffee. It's like 489 00:33:02,840 --> 00:33:05,440 Speaker 1: eight thirty in the morning or something, and then all 490 00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:09,680 Speaker 1: of a sudden, the kitchen just moves and then it 491 00:33:09,720 --> 00:33:13,720 Speaker 1: moves back, and some stuff I'm trying not occurse here, 492 00:33:13,920 --> 00:33:18,640 Speaker 1: but some stuff just falls off the shelves, and and uh, 493 00:33:18,840 --> 00:33:22,800 Speaker 1: the the lady whose house it was, she is She's like, 494 00:33:23,320 --> 00:33:25,640 Speaker 1: I'm just gonna put up this spoon again, and blah 495 00:33:25,680 --> 00:33:29,320 Speaker 1: blah blah. And I think maybe I've done some sort 496 00:33:29,360 --> 00:33:32,120 Speaker 1: of drug that I can't remember, you know, and that 497 00:33:32,200 --> 00:33:36,040 Speaker 1: reality is just glitching. But I say that because you know, 498 00:33:36,120 --> 00:33:40,440 Speaker 1: it is difficult to explain what an earthquake feels like 499 00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:45,240 Speaker 1: unless you experience it. There is no anchor, there's nothing 500 00:33:45,280 --> 00:33:49,600 Speaker 1: that you can hold because the world is quaking, and 501 00:33:49,760 --> 00:33:54,080 Speaker 1: this is what these people experience, right, So of course 502 00:33:54,120 --> 00:33:59,320 Speaker 1: they're scared, especially because they thought they had done everything right. 503 00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:03,440 Speaker 1: They had complied with the orders of the federal government. 504 00:34:04,360 --> 00:34:07,920 Speaker 1: They had evacuated if they were told to evacuate, and 505 00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:12,640 Speaker 1: they still, as we would say today, got their stuff rocked, 506 00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:18,279 Speaker 1: you know. And and the thing is that, Okay, this 507 00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:22,799 Speaker 1: is crazy, right, No one dies immediately, and thank your 508 00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:26,680 Speaker 1: lucky stars for that, right, Uh, Federal agents, residents alike. 509 00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:32,279 Speaker 1: Several weeks after the blast, the government has hired workers 510 00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:35,919 Speaker 1: to drill back into the hole in the ground left 511 00:34:35,960 --> 00:34:42,160 Speaker 1: by this explosion in the Tatum saltum to release radioactive 512 00:34:42,200 --> 00:34:45,799 Speaker 1: gas that's trapped inside. Now, the officials were using what 513 00:34:45,840 --> 00:34:49,280 Speaker 1: we would describe as cutting edge technology for the time. 514 00:34:49,680 --> 00:34:52,319 Speaker 1: They had scrubbers that were set up and in a 515 00:34:52,360 --> 00:34:58,759 Speaker 1: scrubber basically would decontaminate the radioactive gas. But soon they 516 00:34:58,840 --> 00:35:02,759 Speaker 1: realized that wasn't the real problem. They would have to 517 00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:06,799 Speaker 1: do something about the radioactive liquid waste from all the 518 00:35:06,880 --> 00:35:10,160 Speaker 1: drilling operations. Just like in Lord of the Rings, they 519 00:35:10,239 --> 00:35:15,480 Speaker 1: delved too deep and their bal rog was very dangerous 520 00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:18,560 Speaker 1: waste radiation. So they said, okay, you know what we're 521 00:35:18,560 --> 00:35:23,080 Speaker 1: gonna do. We're gonna dig. We're gonna dig a hole. 522 00:35:23,960 --> 00:35:26,080 Speaker 1: We're just we're gonna dig some more holes, and we're 523 00:35:26,080 --> 00:35:29,880 Speaker 1: gonna dig one really deep hole, uh two thousand, four 524 00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:35,480 Speaker 1: hundred feet into the earth, right by the salt dome um. 525 00:35:35,560 --> 00:35:38,040 Speaker 1: And then someone in the room was like, hey, is 526 00:35:38,040 --> 00:35:42,640 Speaker 1: isn't there a groundwater aquifer there? And they're like, Craig 527 00:35:43,360 --> 00:35:47,879 Speaker 1: and EGb a team player. It's fine. It's also who 528 00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:50,160 Speaker 1: cares if it's an awkward for everything will be fine. 529 00:35:50,320 --> 00:35:58,840 Speaker 1: There's no problem with irradiating ground water. Yeah. So so 530 00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:04,759 Speaker 1: we're still remember and between March and July of that year, 531 00:36:06,640 --> 00:36:11,239 Speaker 1: there was a ton of radioactive liquid waste that was 532 00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:15,200 Speaker 1: disposed of into this well where an underground aquifer was. 533 00:36:15,800 --> 00:36:20,359 Speaker 1: We're talking about three hundred and thirty eight thousand gallons 534 00:36:20,400 --> 00:36:25,680 Speaker 1: of radioactive waste that was just see you later, down 535 00:36:25,719 --> 00:36:29,520 Speaker 1: into the well, into the water. And that wasn't it either. 536 00:36:29,760 --> 00:36:32,480 Speaker 1: That's not where the story stops. It wasn't just one 537 00:36:32,840 --> 00:36:39,600 Speaker 1: nuclear test underground at this location. The government went right 538 00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:43,239 Speaker 1: back through and dropped another bomb into that hole that 539 00:36:43,320 --> 00:36:45,799 Speaker 1: they created with the first test. And we'll tell you 540 00:36:45,840 --> 00:36:48,239 Speaker 1: all about that when we return from a word from 541 00:36:48,280 --> 00:36:57,480 Speaker 1: our sponsor. That's right. Uh, they must have had a 542 00:36:57,520 --> 00:37:01,080 Speaker 1: different person writing the names by this point. A few 543 00:37:01,120 --> 00:37:05,080 Speaker 1: years later, they conduct a second test, as you said, Matt, 544 00:37:05,280 --> 00:37:08,360 Speaker 1: during what was called the Sterling Events. This happened on 545 00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:14,440 Speaker 1: December third, nineteen sixty six. Basically, Uh, they said, Hey, 546 00:37:14,480 --> 00:37:18,719 Speaker 1: we got this great hole from earlier, let's keep using it. 547 00:37:18,760 --> 00:37:22,200 Speaker 1: This is a very like pro hole in the ground 548 00:37:24,040 --> 00:37:27,239 Speaker 1: kind of institution. Uh. And it made sense. I don't 549 00:37:27,239 --> 00:37:29,400 Speaker 1: mean to bust their chops too hard, it made sense. 550 00:37:29,440 --> 00:37:32,800 Speaker 1: So they dropped a three hundred and eighty ton device 551 00:37:33,040 --> 00:37:36,560 Speaker 1: into the cavity that was left behind by the previous explosion. 552 00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:40,800 Speaker 1: In the Salmon events, the Department of Defense and associated 553 00:37:40,880 --> 00:37:45,920 Speaker 1: agencies required residents for these tests within one and a 554 00:37:46,000 --> 00:37:49,840 Speaker 1: half miles of the explosion point to leave their homes 555 00:37:49,960 --> 00:37:54,359 Speaker 1: while the events were occurring. They also said, hey, you know, 556 00:37:56,160 --> 00:38:00,400 Speaker 1: these detonations may might mess up your house a little bit. 557 00:38:00,440 --> 00:38:03,279 Speaker 1: They might they might damage some buildings and stuff. And 558 00:38:03,360 --> 00:38:08,080 Speaker 1: it did, and it definitely did. Uh uh. They also 559 00:38:08,200 --> 00:38:13,160 Speaker 1: proactively said, you know, we are going to we're going 560 00:38:13,200 --> 00:38:15,239 Speaker 1: to get in front of this, as they say in 561 00:38:15,280 --> 00:38:18,239 Speaker 1: corporate America or in the realm of politics, and we're 562 00:38:18,239 --> 00:38:21,280 Speaker 1: going to go ahead and just let you know. Whatever happens, 563 00:38:21,600 --> 00:38:25,080 Speaker 1: We're going to give you a five grand. Just tell 564 00:38:25,160 --> 00:38:30,120 Speaker 1: us what happened. We'll give you five grand. Everybody's happy it. 565 00:38:30,120 --> 00:38:33,239 Speaker 1: It didn't stop there, uh. Later, they would go on 566 00:38:33,520 --> 00:38:38,160 Speaker 1: to conduct more experiments with non nuclear explosives during a 567 00:38:38,239 --> 00:38:42,560 Speaker 1: project called Miracle Play, which sounds like something for you know, 568 00:38:42,760 --> 00:38:49,160 Speaker 1: your Nintendo switch. Yeah, yeah, it does. Ben Really quickly, 569 00:38:49,239 --> 00:38:54,640 Speaker 1: let's get into the reason why they tested secondary much 570 00:38:54,800 --> 00:38:57,880 Speaker 1: much smaller device in that same place where they caused 571 00:38:57,960 --> 00:39:02,240 Speaker 1: the first explosion. Just quick, lee, just go over this. So, 572 00:39:02,520 --> 00:39:05,000 Speaker 1: the first time they detonated a nuke in the Tatum 573 00:39:05,040 --> 00:39:11,719 Speaker 1: Salt Dome, it essentially created a massive, so let's say, 574 00:39:11,760 --> 00:39:15,960 Speaker 1: spherical whole in the ground, not necessarily a hold you 575 00:39:15,960 --> 00:39:18,320 Speaker 1: can get into, like a cavern, like a cave, basically 576 00:39:18,400 --> 00:39:22,960 Speaker 1: underneath the ground. And when once they had created that 577 00:39:23,000 --> 00:39:26,319 Speaker 1: with the first explosion, the first test during Salmon, they 578 00:39:26,480 --> 00:39:29,320 Speaker 1: like I said, like we said, they drilled a hole 579 00:39:29,719 --> 00:39:34,319 Speaker 1: into this cavity. They dropped a much smaller bomb and 580 00:39:35,280 --> 00:39:41,480 Speaker 1: what do we say it was, yeah, ton device, much 581 00:39:41,480 --> 00:39:46,080 Speaker 1: smaller and they dropped that down there and it exploded. It. Uh, 582 00:39:46,120 --> 00:39:49,279 Speaker 1: to test whether or not there would be this dampening 583 00:39:49,400 --> 00:39:53,960 Speaker 1: effect that the you know, the scientists and personnel that 584 00:39:54,000 --> 00:39:56,960 Speaker 1: we're testing with the Vela Vela uniform. They wanted to 585 00:39:56,960 --> 00:40:00,080 Speaker 1: see if a country could do that could dampen the 586 00:40:00,320 --> 00:40:05,520 Speaker 1: essentially shock waves of a nuclear explosion by having a 587 00:40:05,600 --> 00:40:08,720 Speaker 1: hole in the ground, a large cavernous hole in the ground, 588 00:40:08,880 --> 00:40:11,920 Speaker 1: rather than just dipping it into the ground and exploding it. 589 00:40:12,400 --> 00:40:16,640 Speaker 1: Mm hmm. Yeah, I mean there's there is valuable science here, 590 00:40:16,840 --> 00:40:19,359 Speaker 1: you know what I mean that I think that's one 591 00:40:19,360 --> 00:40:22,520 Speaker 1: of the biggest points about this. But the problem is 592 00:40:23,080 --> 00:40:28,600 Speaker 1: everything we've described, even with the safety measures that they took, Uh, 593 00:40:28,680 --> 00:40:34,640 Speaker 1: it's still incredibly dangerous. People were living in the area, right, 594 00:40:35,120 --> 00:40:39,759 Speaker 1: and you'll be a happy slash roll your rise and 595 00:40:40,080 --> 00:40:45,759 Speaker 1: groaning to uh to learn that Uncle Sam did compensate 596 00:40:45,920 --> 00:40:51,120 Speaker 1: the residence of Baxterville and Hattiesburg even they gave adults 597 00:40:51,160 --> 00:40:54,399 Speaker 1: ten dollars and they gave children five bucks. The shock 598 00:40:54,480 --> 00:41:00,160 Speaker 1: wave of this explosion literally lifted the ground four inches UM. 599 00:41:00,520 --> 00:41:03,640 Speaker 1: A lot of buildings only have minimal damage. That's frankly amazing. 600 00:41:04,080 --> 00:41:08,080 Speaker 1: But what is not amazing and what is you know, 601 00:41:08,239 --> 00:41:12,560 Speaker 1: perhaps the most disappointing and strange part of this story 602 00:41:12,880 --> 00:41:17,520 Speaker 1: be the effects and the aftermath, which they clearly did 603 00:41:17,560 --> 00:41:22,920 Speaker 1: not plan for. Agreed, I would say we're talking dollars, 604 00:41:23,040 --> 00:41:28,120 Speaker 1: so ten bucks, five bucks not too shabby. It's very 605 00:41:28,160 --> 00:41:31,640 Speaker 1: fair of you, yes, of being facetious here. No, you're right, though, 606 00:41:31,680 --> 00:41:34,400 Speaker 1: been the aftermath and effects of these tests is not 607 00:41:34,560 --> 00:41:37,080 Speaker 1: something laugh at. I apologize again. We're in one of 608 00:41:37,080 --> 00:41:39,640 Speaker 1: those situations where you're trying to be a little light 609 00:41:40,080 --> 00:41:43,759 Speaker 1: just because this stuff is UH, it's tough on individual 610 00:41:44,040 --> 00:41:49,560 Speaker 1: people and families. So, you know, the big thing here 611 00:41:49,600 --> 00:41:52,040 Speaker 1: is that the United States government appears to not have 612 00:41:52,120 --> 00:41:55,359 Speaker 1: been fully aware of the risks that were posed by 613 00:41:55,480 --> 00:41:59,840 Speaker 1: contaminating with radiation things like groundwater and just you know, 614 00:42:00,160 --> 00:42:02,960 Speaker 1: a general area where flora and fauna are going to 615 00:42:03,000 --> 00:42:07,920 Speaker 1: be affected by this radiation. They were, however, fully aware 616 00:42:08,719 --> 00:42:11,520 Speaker 1: of the horrific consequences of dropping the bomb on let's 617 00:42:11,560 --> 00:42:16,319 Speaker 1: say a city and suburban area. Uh, when you're looking 618 00:42:16,320 --> 00:42:19,680 Speaker 1: at the attacks on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. In this case, 619 00:42:20,320 --> 00:42:24,440 Speaker 1: the logic at least was that this would this would 620 00:42:24,440 --> 00:42:28,000 Speaker 1: not have much of an effect because you know, you're 621 00:42:28,120 --> 00:42:31,880 Speaker 1: exploding this thing underground, because the radioactive material is going 622 00:42:31,920 --> 00:42:34,120 Speaker 1: to be stuck under there. It's not going to be 623 00:42:34,200 --> 00:42:37,920 Speaker 1: able to escape and get into the air and affect 624 00:42:38,000 --> 00:42:40,319 Speaker 1: things in the way that we you know, generally had 625 00:42:40,320 --> 00:42:44,560 Speaker 1: been testing nukes in the past, and it would you know, 626 00:42:44,880 --> 00:42:48,880 Speaker 1: over time, if you didn't disturb the area, and especially 627 00:42:48,920 --> 00:42:52,000 Speaker 1: like essentially the cave that was created because of this explosion, 628 00:42:52,200 --> 00:42:56,320 Speaker 1: if you didn't disturb that, then the stuff would decay naturally, slowly, 629 00:42:56,600 --> 00:43:00,960 Speaker 1: but naturally, and you wouldn't have to worry too much. Right, 630 00:43:02,680 --> 00:43:06,799 Speaker 1: This was not the case. Follow up drilling operations that 631 00:43:06,960 --> 00:43:10,640 Speaker 1: allowed scientists to collect more information about this and to 632 00:43:10,840 --> 00:43:16,280 Speaker 1: dispose of the devices actually ended up contaminating the site. 633 00:43:16,880 --> 00:43:20,839 Speaker 1: So it wasn't so much the initial testing as it 634 00:43:21,000 --> 00:43:24,920 Speaker 1: was the UH. The later attempts to leverage info from 635 00:43:24,920 --> 00:43:29,040 Speaker 1: the testing or to get ahold of these devices created 636 00:43:29,040 --> 00:43:34,080 Speaker 1: hazardous radioactive waste. You know, all like imagine that green 637 00:43:34,239 --> 00:43:37,280 Speaker 1: gunk you see in episodes of The Simpsons or Captain Planet. 638 00:43:37,360 --> 00:43:40,400 Speaker 1: It made that stuff, and that stuff is very, very bad. 639 00:43:40,760 --> 00:43:43,520 Speaker 1: Humans are not built to be around it. Decades after 640 00:43:43,560 --> 00:43:46,640 Speaker 1: the first test, the Department of Energy is still picking 641 00:43:46,719 --> 00:43:51,200 Speaker 1: up radiation in the ground and surprised in the aquifers, 642 00:43:51,840 --> 00:43:54,319 Speaker 1: and that is due to the problem with the clean up. 643 00:43:54,480 --> 00:43:58,840 Speaker 1: Employees who worked on these cleanup missions said that it 644 00:43:59,040 --> 00:44:03,920 Speaker 1: was lax at best. UH. Some a couple of poison particular, 645 00:44:04,120 --> 00:44:07,520 Speaker 1: maintained that they were lied to when they asked medical 646 00:44:07,600 --> 00:44:12,240 Speaker 1: professionals UH to explain things like strange burns they found 647 00:44:12,480 --> 00:44:18,239 Speaker 1: or differing medical conditions. UH. The Department of Energy maintained 648 00:44:18,400 --> 00:44:21,200 Speaker 1: that the radiation levels they did find, even the ones 649 00:44:21,280 --> 00:44:24,840 Speaker 1: that persisted for decades, were no threat to the health 650 00:44:24,880 --> 00:44:30,000 Speaker 1: of residents and to be fair, we know that the 651 00:44:30,120 --> 00:44:33,440 Speaker 1: modern human being, especially in the West, is exposed to 652 00:44:33,520 --> 00:44:39,000 Speaker 1: low levels of radiation from every including everything from like 653 00:44:39,920 --> 00:44:44,040 Speaker 1: maybe an X ray scan too, I kid, do not bananas. 654 00:44:44,280 --> 00:44:48,760 Speaker 1: Bananas have low level radiation. Uh so they were flying 655 00:44:48,760 --> 00:44:51,520 Speaker 1: in a plane. Oh yeah, I'm flying in a plane. 656 00:44:51,719 --> 00:44:53,759 Speaker 1: Oh man, remember when I used to do that. I 657 00:44:53,760 --> 00:44:55,680 Speaker 1: would still trade it all. I was supposed to go 658 00:44:55,680 --> 00:44:58,400 Speaker 1: to Eastern Island this summer day. I tell you that. No, 659 00:44:59,120 --> 00:45:00,879 Speaker 1: it was a secret, and I didn't want to tell 660 00:45:00,880 --> 00:45:02,840 Speaker 1: you guys until I can texts you a picture. But 661 00:45:03,160 --> 00:45:08,040 Speaker 1: uh yeah, But being a US resident traveling internationally is 662 00:45:08,040 --> 00:45:11,439 Speaker 1: going to be harry for a while. Even if even 663 00:45:11,480 --> 00:45:13,680 Speaker 1: if you live in the US and you have the 664 00:45:13,719 --> 00:45:17,400 Speaker 1: ability to go somewhere, the other country might not necessarily 665 00:45:17,440 --> 00:45:21,000 Speaker 1: want to let you in now more than ever. But 666 00:45:21,080 --> 00:45:23,719 Speaker 1: we'll see anyway, that doesn't that doesn't matter. The point 667 00:45:23,760 --> 00:45:25,239 Speaker 1: the matter is here is that there are a lot 668 00:45:25,280 --> 00:45:27,960 Speaker 1: of things that expose you to low level radiation. You 669 00:45:28,040 --> 00:45:31,440 Speaker 1: run into it all the time, And the Department of 670 00:45:31,520 --> 00:45:34,160 Speaker 1: Energy was saying, well, this is kind of the same thing. 671 00:45:34,520 --> 00:45:37,880 Speaker 1: It's not going to be dangerous. But in the nineties nineties, 672 00:45:38,920 --> 00:45:44,200 Speaker 1: residents of the area Baxterville, Hattiesburg, and workers from Project 673 00:45:45,160 --> 00:45:50,640 Speaker 1: Project Dribble. Uh. They started to say, you know, a 674 00:45:50,719 --> 00:45:54,439 Speaker 1: lot of our friends, co workers and loft ones from 675 00:45:54,480 --> 00:45:59,960 Speaker 1: this time period are dying and they're dying of cancer. Yeah. 676 00:46:00,320 --> 00:46:05,000 Speaker 1: About thirty years later, that's when I guess you begin 677 00:46:05,040 --> 00:46:08,680 Speaker 1: to notice that that radiation those rats you took back 678 00:46:08,680 --> 00:46:11,400 Speaker 1: in the day are starting to show themselves because there 679 00:46:11,440 --> 00:46:15,120 Speaker 1: are long, long term effects there. And you know, the 680 00:46:15,160 --> 00:46:18,160 Speaker 1: local residents ended up creating a list of I believe 681 00:46:18,160 --> 00:46:22,000 Speaker 1: it was forty forty four people who had either died 682 00:46:22,000 --> 00:46:26,080 Speaker 1: of cancer or who had developed cancer. And you know 683 00:46:26,200 --> 00:46:30,440 Speaker 1: that's in the large scheme of things, that's a relatively 684 00:46:30,719 --> 00:46:34,280 Speaker 1: low number, but in a small town, forty four people 685 00:46:34,360 --> 00:46:38,400 Speaker 1: in an immediate area who had you know, gotten cancer 686 00:46:38,520 --> 00:46:41,600 Speaker 1: or died of cancer is a lot. And they demanded 687 00:46:41,640 --> 00:46:44,480 Speaker 1: that the state and federal government figure out if any 688 00:46:44,480 --> 00:46:47,440 Speaker 1: of these conditions were in any way linked to the 689 00:46:47,480 --> 00:46:50,280 Speaker 1: salt dome test that were done back in the sixties. 690 00:46:51,040 --> 00:46:56,680 Speaker 1: And you know, we're talking in it moved slowly trying 691 00:46:56,680 --> 00:46:59,800 Speaker 1: to get any kind of movement within the legal system, 692 00:47:00,080 --> 00:47:03,720 Speaker 1: within you know, the people who could actually run the testing, 693 00:47:04,440 --> 00:47:07,520 Speaker 1: because there was By the way, there was a lot 694 00:47:07,640 --> 00:47:10,319 Speaker 1: of long term testing of the flora and fauna in 695 00:47:10,360 --> 00:47:14,160 Speaker 1: the immediate area that was going on, but you know 696 00:47:14,640 --> 00:47:19,040 Speaker 1: who's too. I couldn't find much on the actual testing 697 00:47:19,080 --> 00:47:22,120 Speaker 1: of the residents that was going on up until they 698 00:47:22,120 --> 00:47:28,120 Speaker 1: started raising a flag and saying, hey, we're we're fauna too, right, 699 00:47:29,000 --> 00:47:32,280 Speaker 1: That's what I mean. That's a very very salient point. 700 00:47:33,520 --> 00:47:36,520 Speaker 1: By the way, I forgot to mention this, the a 701 00:47:36,560 --> 00:47:40,399 Speaker 1: lot of residents in this area used wells that they 702 00:47:40,480 --> 00:47:42,759 Speaker 1: had you know, doug or had been there existing on 703 00:47:42,800 --> 00:47:48,280 Speaker 1: their properties prior to these events. Almost all, if not everyone, 704 00:47:48,440 --> 00:47:52,200 Speaker 1: of the wells in the surrounding area we're producing undrinkable 705 00:47:52,239 --> 00:47:54,960 Speaker 1: water or no water at all, water that was not 706 00:47:55,080 --> 00:47:57,640 Speaker 1: portable for them to drink, so they had to find 707 00:47:57,640 --> 00:48:00,480 Speaker 1: alternative means to get water. There. You gonna read a 708 00:48:00,480 --> 00:48:03,280 Speaker 1: lot more about this in a couple of places online. 709 00:48:03,400 --> 00:48:07,480 Speaker 1: I would recommend the Atomic Heritage site atomic heritage dot org. 710 00:48:07,800 --> 00:48:11,960 Speaker 1: And there's also a bunch of local reporting that's happened 711 00:48:11,960 --> 00:48:15,440 Speaker 1: over the you know, let's say, from about two thousand 712 00:48:15,520 --> 00:48:20,640 Speaker 1: ten and onward. There have been several stories about this. Sorry, 713 00:48:20,640 --> 00:48:23,239 Speaker 1: I just want to put that out there. Oh yeah, yeah, 714 00:48:23,280 --> 00:48:28,400 Speaker 1: I would recommend I was reading into Work by Nola 715 00:48:28,520 --> 00:48:33,719 Speaker 1: dot com, by the Sun, Harold Um. There's actually there's 716 00:48:33,719 --> 00:48:36,359 Speaker 1: a really good Atlas Obscura article on this that gives 717 00:48:36,360 --> 00:48:42,480 Speaker 1: a nice overview, but right without admitting liability for some stuff. 718 00:48:42,800 --> 00:48:48,400 Speaker 1: Around two thousands, the government built a water pipeline to 719 00:48:48,600 --> 00:48:52,080 Speaker 1: help residents of the Tatum Salt Dome get drinking water 720 00:48:53,000 --> 00:48:55,360 Speaker 1: that came from an area other than the test site. 721 00:48:55,719 --> 00:48:59,839 Speaker 1: And their idea was, you know, we're not a fish 722 00:49:00,120 --> 00:49:03,680 Speaker 1: lee saying that we really screwed the pooch on this, 723 00:49:04,320 --> 00:49:08,800 Speaker 1: but we want you guys to feel better. So this 724 00:49:08,880 --> 00:49:13,000 Speaker 1: is sort of this is for you. Fast forward, the 725 00:49:13,040 --> 00:49:16,680 Speaker 1: Department of Labor has paid nearly five point five million 726 00:49:16,719 --> 00:49:21,240 Speaker 1: dollars US two people who are suffering medical problems after 727 00:49:21,360 --> 00:49:26,600 Speaker 1: working at the Salmon nuclear explosion site against southwest of Hattiesburg, 728 00:49:26,600 --> 00:49:29,719 Speaker 1: about twenty eight miles. So if you combine that with 729 00:49:29,760 --> 00:49:32,200 Speaker 1: the money that was paid to workers who lived in 730 00:49:32,320 --> 00:49:37,440 Speaker 1: Mississippi but didn't necessarily work on the site, the total 731 00:49:37,880 --> 00:49:43,160 Speaker 1: bill is sixteen point eight million dollars. Oddly enough, that's 732 00:49:43,200 --> 00:49:46,240 Speaker 1: the price tag for a total of fifty six claims. 733 00:49:46,640 --> 00:49:50,520 Speaker 1: Odd coincidence. There's that number again for the numerologists in 734 00:49:50,560 --> 00:49:54,000 Speaker 1: the crowd. Uh. Those fifty six claims came from the 735 00:49:54,040 --> 00:49:57,879 Speaker 1: Salmon site, which today we usually called the Tatum Salt Dome, 736 00:49:58,200 --> 00:50:02,640 Speaker 1: and today, as we record this officially, Tatum Salt Dome 737 00:50:02,840 --> 00:50:07,120 Speaker 1: is the location of the only known nuclear weapons test 738 00:50:07,360 --> 00:50:11,280 Speaker 1: a K detonation to ever be performed in the eastern 739 00:50:11,400 --> 00:50:14,279 Speaker 1: United States. That's right. A lot of it was done 740 00:50:14,280 --> 00:50:18,120 Speaker 1: out in Nevada, Nevada. However, you want to say it 741 00:50:18,680 --> 00:50:21,120 Speaker 1: at the test sites out there in a couple of 742 00:50:21,120 --> 00:50:24,520 Speaker 1: other places, or just you know, outside of the United States, 743 00:50:24,520 --> 00:50:28,560 Speaker 1: on atolls and other places underneath the water and in 744 00:50:28,600 --> 00:50:32,320 Speaker 1: the air, in various places. It's pretty weird to think about. 745 00:50:32,360 --> 00:50:34,640 Speaker 1: And it's so odd again that Ben and I were 746 00:50:34,680 --> 00:50:38,240 Speaker 1: unaware of this until Weird West came along and was like, hey, guys, 747 00:50:39,120 --> 00:50:44,880 Speaker 1: look at this and then left. Uh. It's it's really 748 00:50:45,560 --> 00:50:49,640 Speaker 1: it's really frustrating to know that the government did pay 749 00:50:49,680 --> 00:50:55,279 Speaker 1: out that money to fifty six people when into my 750 00:50:55,360 --> 00:50:57,880 Speaker 1: mind you think about the residents that have been living there, 751 00:50:57,760 --> 00:50:59,920 Speaker 1: are the families that have been growing up there near 752 00:51:00,080 --> 00:51:03,560 Speaker 1: this place. Uh, it feels like there's been a larger 753 00:51:03,600 --> 00:51:06,440 Speaker 1: effect maybe than just the workers who were there on 754 00:51:06,560 --> 00:51:10,760 Speaker 1: site who got dosed radiation, because you know, it's highly 755 00:51:10,800 --> 00:51:12,680 Speaker 1: likely that they did, and that's probably one of the 756 00:51:12,680 --> 00:51:15,960 Speaker 1: major reasons that the money was actually paid out. But 757 00:51:16,760 --> 00:51:19,239 Speaker 1: just thinking about the number of people that ended up 758 00:51:19,320 --> 00:51:25,280 Speaker 1: drinking water and children that ended up drinking water around there, um, 759 00:51:25,320 --> 00:51:29,279 Speaker 1: it feels like it feels like there there would be 760 00:51:29,280 --> 00:51:32,239 Speaker 1: more casualties. But maybe I'm wrong. I would say there 761 00:51:32,280 --> 00:51:34,240 Speaker 1: are a couple of places online where you can read 762 00:51:34,880 --> 00:51:37,759 Speaker 1: firsthand accounts of people who were there, and there's one 763 00:51:37,800 --> 00:51:42,239 Speaker 1: gentleman who refers a couple of times to the number 764 00:51:42,280 --> 00:51:45,800 Speaker 1: of people with cancer, and he says, I believe the 765 00:51:45,880 --> 00:51:48,759 Speaker 1: quote is something along the lines of if you look 766 00:51:48,920 --> 00:51:52,759 Speaker 1: north essentially of the Tatum Salt Dome, that's where there 767 00:51:52,760 --> 00:51:56,279 Speaker 1: are a ton of people getting cancer. And that was 768 00:51:56,360 --> 00:51:58,920 Speaker 1: a I believe it was a two thousand fourteen interview 769 00:51:59,120 --> 00:52:02,799 Speaker 1: with this gentleman, but he was specifically saying, look to 770 00:52:02,840 --> 00:52:05,960 Speaker 1: the north of where these explosions occurred, and that's where 771 00:52:05,960 --> 00:52:09,200 Speaker 1: you'll find the people who were really affected. And this 772 00:52:09,760 --> 00:52:16,560 Speaker 1: situation has not been solved, you know more than what, uh, 773 00:52:16,640 --> 00:52:20,840 Speaker 1: you know, decades and decades later, this situation remains unsolved. 774 00:52:20,880 --> 00:52:27,600 Speaker 1: The The one important thing to note here is we 775 00:52:27,719 --> 00:52:30,880 Speaker 1: are harping a lot on the activities of the US government, 776 00:52:30,920 --> 00:52:34,040 Speaker 1: but made no mistake, Uh. The U. S. SR was 777 00:52:34,120 --> 00:52:41,440 Speaker 1: conducting similarly dangerous and devious nuclear experiments. H and many 778 00:52:41,560 --> 00:52:47,279 Speaker 1: other modern nuclear powers have done the same thing. This 779 00:52:47,440 --> 00:52:52,279 Speaker 1: was how the radioactive sausage was made. Today, most of 780 00:52:52,280 --> 00:52:56,360 Speaker 1: the residents of Lamar County have, you know, maybe a 781 00:52:56,400 --> 00:53:02,160 Speaker 1: passing understanding of these two new clear explosions, right at 782 00:53:02,200 --> 00:53:06,560 Speaker 1: least from what we understand, and younger citizens in Mississippi 783 00:53:06,760 --> 00:53:12,319 Speaker 1: typically like if you drove there today and you asked someone, say, 784 00:53:12,960 --> 00:53:16,120 Speaker 1: I don't know under eighteen about this stuff, they probably 785 00:53:16,120 --> 00:53:19,480 Speaker 1: haven't heard of Project Dribble. Uh. To your point, Matt, 786 00:53:20,040 --> 00:53:27,360 Speaker 1: about the distribution of cancer cancer rates, statistics now show 787 00:53:27,440 --> 00:53:31,600 Speaker 1: that cancer and heart disease the rates and Baxterville are 788 00:53:31,680 --> 00:53:35,239 Speaker 1: comparable to the rest of the state of Mississippi, which 789 00:53:35,280 --> 00:53:39,719 Speaker 1: sadly means that they are noticeably higher than the national average. 790 00:53:40,680 --> 00:53:45,080 Speaker 1: Some residents who are familiar with the story maintain that 791 00:53:45,160 --> 00:53:48,319 Speaker 1: the U. S. Government is still hiding some part of 792 00:53:48,360 --> 00:53:51,520 Speaker 1: the truth, whether that's the full extent of the radiation 793 00:53:52,160 --> 00:53:57,000 Speaker 1: the consequences of the test or the distribution of UM 794 00:53:57,239 --> 00:54:01,400 Speaker 1: contamination associated medical conditions. I don't know. You can't blame 795 00:54:01,480 --> 00:54:07,319 Speaker 1: people for being distrustful in these situations in general. Uh, 796 00:54:07,400 --> 00:54:11,919 Speaker 1: but you know, thank you to weird West Wyoming. Wish 797 00:54:11,960 --> 00:54:14,800 Speaker 1: we had more of a happy ending to this story. 798 00:54:14,920 --> 00:54:16,520 Speaker 1: But the best thing we can say is the story 799 00:54:16,600 --> 00:54:19,839 Speaker 1: is not over yet. That's right, the story is not over. 800 00:54:20,000 --> 00:54:23,000 Speaker 1: Thank us. I will give you just a quick thing 801 00:54:23,200 --> 00:54:26,839 Speaker 1: from the Sun Herald. So back about ten years ago, 802 00:54:27,040 --> 00:54:31,000 Speaker 1: a little little lesson ten years ago. Back in two 803 00:54:31,000 --> 00:54:35,240 Speaker 1: thousand ten, the good old us of A government declared 804 00:54:35,280 --> 00:54:37,640 Speaker 1: that this site, that Tatum Salt Dome in this area 805 00:54:37,800 --> 00:54:43,160 Speaker 1: was safe, and they transferred I believe it was about 806 00:54:43,239 --> 00:54:47,719 Speaker 1: fift hundred, yeah, one tho acres to the state, back 807 00:54:47,760 --> 00:54:52,200 Speaker 1: to Mississippi. And they were talking about, how, you know, 808 00:54:52,280 --> 00:54:55,160 Speaker 1: the wood out here, the trees, the timber, this is 809 00:54:55,200 --> 00:54:58,000 Speaker 1: all really good stuff we can use. It's about two 810 00:54:58,080 --> 00:55:01,120 Speaker 1: million dollars worth of two thousand and ten dollars of 811 00:55:01,160 --> 00:55:05,879 Speaker 1: this stuff um. And also we could build recreational sites here. 812 00:55:06,280 --> 00:55:08,560 Speaker 1: Let's do it. Hey, we got all this land, let's 813 00:55:08,600 --> 00:55:13,120 Speaker 1: make it happen. Everything is safe and uh, the State 814 00:55:13,160 --> 00:55:17,759 Speaker 1: Health Department in Mississippi. In they were still, you know, 815 00:55:17,840 --> 00:55:21,239 Speaker 1: up until they were still monitoring the whole site, looking 816 00:55:21,280 --> 00:55:25,840 Speaker 1: at the water, specifically for triteum, which is, according to 817 00:55:26,080 --> 00:55:28,320 Speaker 1: the sun herold, which is also according to science, a 818 00:55:28,440 --> 00:55:32,800 Speaker 1: radioactive isotope of hydrogen. And you know, they were saying, 819 00:55:32,840 --> 00:55:36,239 Speaker 1: you know what, We're okay, We're still gonna monitor the groundwater. 820 00:55:36,280 --> 00:55:39,360 Speaker 1: We're gonna look at the surface water. But everything seems fine. 821 00:55:39,440 --> 00:55:42,000 Speaker 1: Let's get back to it out here in the old 822 00:55:42,120 --> 00:55:47,239 Speaker 1: Tatum salt dome. Here's here's another thing, just a quick 823 00:55:47,280 --> 00:55:48,960 Speaker 1: note that they make at the end of this article, 824 00:55:49,400 --> 00:55:51,879 Speaker 1: which by the way, is called nuclear tests in South 825 00:55:51,920 --> 00:55:58,560 Speaker 1: Mississippi cost government millions and claims. They note that several 826 00:55:58,640 --> 00:56:03,279 Speaker 1: times the cons sept of using a salt mine or 827 00:56:03,320 --> 00:56:06,240 Speaker 1: a salt dome in this way as a safe place 828 00:56:06,280 --> 00:56:11,279 Speaker 1: to store nuclear waste, even though we learned from this 829 00:56:11,480 --> 00:56:15,399 Speaker 1: test that is not necessarily a safe place to store 830 00:56:15,520 --> 00:56:19,839 Speaker 1: nuclear waste because of the aquifers. That is I think 831 00:56:19,880 --> 00:56:23,720 Speaker 1: one of the big takeaways um nuclear waste and ground 832 00:56:23,760 --> 00:56:29,040 Speaker 1: aquifers are it's a very dangerous combination. Yeah, it's true. 833 00:56:29,200 --> 00:56:32,120 Speaker 1: And at this point we passed the torch to you. 834 00:56:32,920 --> 00:56:34,719 Speaker 1: What do you think about this? Do you think that 835 00:56:34,760 --> 00:56:39,840 Speaker 1: people are maybe being alarmist about the connection between these 836 00:56:39,880 --> 00:56:44,760 Speaker 1: older nuclear debtonations and rates of cancer or certain medical 837 00:56:44,800 --> 00:56:48,040 Speaker 1: conditions in the area? Now, do you think that there's 838 00:56:48,080 --> 00:56:51,280 Speaker 1: not enough attention put on this? What do you think 839 00:56:51,320 --> 00:56:55,560 Speaker 1: about other similar tests in the world, and are there 840 00:56:55,600 --> 00:56:57,920 Speaker 1: any that you're aware of in your neck of the 841 00:56:57,960 --> 00:57:00,960 Speaker 1: global woods. We'd love to hear from you. Let us know. 842 00:57:01,239 --> 00:57:04,319 Speaker 1: You can find us on the Internet. We're all over it. Uh, 843 00:57:04,480 --> 00:57:08,160 Speaker 1: the Internet is just like lousy with our presence, despite 844 00:57:08,160 --> 00:57:12,480 Speaker 1: the fact that we have seemingly angered the Tulpa god 845 00:57:12,560 --> 00:57:16,000 Speaker 1: of Internet search. You can find us on Facebook, you 846 00:57:16,040 --> 00:57:18,880 Speaker 1: can find us on Twitter, you can find us on Instagram. 847 00:57:19,600 --> 00:57:25,320 Speaker 1: We especially like to recommend our Facebook community page. Here's 848 00:57:25,320 --> 00:57:28,040 Speaker 1: where it gets crazy. Yes, you can hang out there 849 00:57:28,240 --> 00:57:32,240 Speaker 1: with your fellow conspiracy realist talking about this episode, suggests, others, 850 00:57:32,480 --> 00:57:35,160 Speaker 1: post memes, whatever you want to do. You can hang 851 00:57:35,200 --> 00:57:38,640 Speaker 1: out with some of the awesomest mods that exist on 852 00:57:38,720 --> 00:57:41,720 Speaker 1: that old Facebook platform. If you don't want to do 853 00:57:41,760 --> 00:57:43,960 Speaker 1: that stuff, you can always pick up your phone and 854 00:57:43,960 --> 00:57:47,200 Speaker 1: give us a call. Our number is one eight three 855 00:57:47,320 --> 00:57:51,600 Speaker 1: three std w y T k. If you leave a message, 856 00:57:52,000 --> 00:57:53,880 Speaker 1: you can be certain that Ben and I will both 857 00:57:53,880 --> 00:57:57,080 Speaker 1: hear it, and Noel will will hear of it if 858 00:57:57,120 --> 00:58:00,040 Speaker 1: we deem it to be good enough for in melicit it. 859 00:58:00,240 --> 00:58:03,880 Speaker 1: I'm just choking. No's gonna listen to UM. If you 860 00:58:03,880 --> 00:58:05,720 Speaker 1: don't want to do that stuff, but you still want 861 00:58:05,760 --> 00:58:08,520 Speaker 1: to reach out, you can always reach us in our 862 00:58:08,560 --> 00:58:12,280 Speaker 1: good old fashioned email. We are conspiracy at i heeart 863 00:58:12,360 --> 00:58:33,520 Speaker 1: radio dot com. Stuff they don't want you to know 864 00:58:33,760 --> 00:58:36,760 Speaker 1: is a production of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts 865 00:58:36,760 --> 00:58:39,000 Speaker 1: from my heart Radio, visit the i heart Radio app, 866 00:58:39,080 --> 00:58:41,920 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.