WEBVTT - Our Obsession With China . Ying Ma Talks to Armstrong & Getty

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<v Speaker 1>So we've become a bit obsessed with China around here.

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<v Speaker 1>And actually, if you're not a bit obsessed with China,

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<v Speaker 1>I think you're missing out on the story of the century,

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<v Speaker 1>as it is a country that actually has the ability

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<v Speaker 1>to compete with the US economically and militarily, is hell

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<v Speaker 1>bent on doing so, and is run by an evil dictatorship.

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<v Speaker 1>If that doesn't get your attention, I don't know what would, well,

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<v Speaker 1>what could lead us to anything but forceful rejection of

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<v Speaker 1>of that country and that leadership. Well, trillions of dollars

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<v Speaker 1>in trade tends to make you feel a little more

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<v Speaker 1>ambivalent about evil, But to discuss that in many other topics.

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<v Speaker 1>Ying Ma joins us ying Ma the author of Chinese

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<v Speaker 1>Girl in the Ghetto, contributor to Fox News, Washington Examiner,

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<v Speaker 1>NBC dot Com, former columnists for The Wall Street Journals,

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<v Speaker 1>China Blog, among a number of other interesting positions. Welcome,

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<v Speaker 1>How are you good? Good? Good morning? Do you both

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<v Speaker 1>great to be back on with you. It's been too long.

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<v Speaker 1>I know, I know, my gosh. I remember last time

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<v Speaker 1>I was here, we were in the middle of the

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<v Speaker 1>two thousand and sixteen campaign, and I was right in

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<v Speaker 1>the middle of that working for the Ben Carson campaign

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<v Speaker 1>in the pro Trump superpack and were now and we're

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<v Speaker 1>now back in another election year. So I was reading

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<v Speaker 1>a little of your bio stuff um yesterday and you

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<v Speaker 1>grew up under Mao And there was a phrase in there,

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<v Speaker 1>and I don't know if you wrote it or whoever

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<v Speaker 1>was writing about you wrote it, but you know, on

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<v Speaker 1>the during the burgeoning time of becoming a capitalist society?

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<v Speaker 1>Is that? So what year did you leave China at

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<v Speaker 1>that time? Did it seem like it was heading the

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<v Speaker 1>way of capitalism? I left in the mid eighties, And

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<v Speaker 1>so what was happening back then was the eighties was

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<v Speaker 1>actually a great era because that was a time when

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of garshoot pants Madonna, it was a great area.

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<v Speaker 1>We had all that in China too, No I'm kidding,

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<v Speaker 1>but the people of China aspired to have all that.

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<v Speaker 1>And I think what was interesting about the eighties was that, um,

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<v Speaker 1>it was when China actually be gave, really got um

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<v Speaker 1>got going with its economic reforms. And so there were

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<v Speaker 1>lots of first you know, the first time people got

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<v Speaker 1>to choose where to work, where to live, um, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>what to buy on the market, and and those were

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<v Speaker 1>very um the very very first beginnings with baby steps,

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<v Speaker 1>and so I certainly it was not full blown capitalism

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<v Speaker 1>in in any way. But what was happening was that

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<v Speaker 1>capitalism was introduced to a very repressive, um, very closed

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<v Speaker 1>off society. And so you know, for instance, did you

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<v Speaker 1>know that for the longest time farmers in China couldn't

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<v Speaker 1>keep profits from you know, from their crops, and then

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<v Speaker 1>so profit incentives were actually introduced in the eighties and

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<v Speaker 1>and so from it was from that era that China

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<v Speaker 1>um embarked on the road of what's called reform and

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<v Speaker 1>opening and and you know, and it's one of the

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<v Speaker 1>reasons why China into the economic giant that it is today. Well,

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<v Speaker 1>when they allowed incentives for production, production exploded, which is

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<v Speaker 1>not surprised you would think that would keep a country

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<v Speaker 1>from wanting to head back towards socialism when you got

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<v Speaker 1>that perfectly good example of how capitalism works. But well,

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<v Speaker 1>I think they are very well. I think one thing

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<v Speaker 1>that they're very fond of is that nobody in China

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<v Speaker 1>is opposed to making any opposed to making money. And

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<v Speaker 1>that goes for the Chinese Communist Party. They've now come

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<v Speaker 1>to realize how much money can buy, advise you, influence overseas. Um.

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<v Speaker 1>It makes the party stronger. Um. And you know, the

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<v Speaker 1>good thing about introducing capitalism in China is that a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of the Chinese people who have this great entrepreneurial spirit,

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<v Speaker 1>they got to know what it is like to run

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<v Speaker 1>their own business, to actually, you know, to actually participate

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<v Speaker 1>in the market. Okay, well then there's the question then

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<v Speaker 1>right there. So the Stalin and In Lenin and his

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<v Speaker 1>crew they in Russia, they were actually communists. It is

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<v Speaker 1>now known from their own personal writings and and everything

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<v Speaker 1>they actually believed in communism, and then they were trying

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<v Speaker 1>to carry that out the Communist Party in China. Are

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<v Speaker 1>they actually communist? Absolutely absolutely that they are a a

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<v Speaker 1>new and improved version of communism. And I think, um,

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<v Speaker 1>I think there is a lot of sophistication and a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of complexity that's not often understood. And and you've

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<v Speaker 1>got all kinds of idiots writing around saying China is

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<v Speaker 1>no longer a communist country. That is absolutely not true,

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<v Speaker 1>because I think at the core of it, communism is

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<v Speaker 1>about control. It is about controlling the ideas of the

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<v Speaker 1>people who live under it. It isn't about controlling their lives,

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<v Speaker 1>and it is about all kinds of things. And the

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<v Speaker 1>Communist Party has at no point decided that it wants

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<v Speaker 1>to seed political power in any way, and so it

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<v Speaker 1>is absolutely adamant about keeping that control. What it has

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<v Speaker 1>done is that it has realized that if it kept

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<v Speaker 1>on going the way that it did in the Cultural

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<v Speaker 1>Revolution or the Great Leap Forward back in the fifties

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<v Speaker 1>and sixties, all of its, but we're starving to death,

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<v Speaker 1>and that that is no way to run a country.

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<v Speaker 1>And so it has decided to over the past forty

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<v Speaker 1>years to introduce elements of market reform. But it is

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<v Speaker 1>not at all a free market society, because you know,

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<v Speaker 1>in the middle of all those market reform elements, the

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<v Speaker 1>state continues to maintain control of vast chunks of the economy.

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<v Speaker 1>And so what the sophistication in all this is that

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<v Speaker 1>the Chinese government has managed to find a way to

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<v Speaker 1>make this sort of reforms work, to generate to generate profits,

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<v Speaker 1>to generate wealth, to generate influence without having to face

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<v Speaker 1>what the former Soviet Union faced, which is an overthrow

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<v Speaker 1>of the regime well and as a regime to balance

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<v Speaker 1>the openness to the free market in the global market.

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<v Speaker 1>With the political control, there has to be an enormous sophistication.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh yes, absolutely, the the you know, the control mechanisms

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<v Speaker 1>and there, you know, it's almost like recognizing that UM.

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<v Speaker 1>The Hitler's war machine sweeping across Europe was a stunning

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<v Speaker 1>bit of military planning. I mean, as loathsome and horrific

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<v Speaker 1>as it was, it's just undeniably impressive. The Chinese regime,

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<v Speaker 1>You've got to admire them. That's almost impossible what they're

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<v Speaker 1>doing right now. There is so much sophistication and and

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<v Speaker 1>you know, I think it's important to recognize us. So

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<v Speaker 1>even though there has been all these new UM forms

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<v Speaker 1>of UM of liberation that didn't used to exist, right

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<v Speaker 1>that people have more opportunities to live where they want

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<v Speaker 1>to live, to buy what they want to buy, to

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<v Speaker 1>say what they want to say in private. But what

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<v Speaker 1>the regime has done is that it has continued to

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<v Speaker 1>exert control in other ways. It's now, you know, it

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<v Speaker 1>now censors the internet. The Internet did not exist when I,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, was growing up in China. UM. It now

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<v Speaker 1>has very sophisticated surveillance technology UM, supplied in part by

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<v Speaker 1>Western companies that want to make a profit in China,

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<v Speaker 1>and it uh it is able to figure out where

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<v Speaker 1>its citizens go, what they're doing, you know, what trains

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<v Speaker 1>they hop on and what trains there. So there is

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<v Speaker 1>this social credit system in China that if you do

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<v Speaker 1>things that the Chinese government does not like, they're all

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<v Speaker 1>kinds of ways that it could, um, they could impede

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<v Speaker 1>upon your ability to do basic things like by plane

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<v Speaker 1>tickets for instance. So so it is a vastly sophisticated

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<v Speaker 1>state in a way that I think a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>people don't understand. Have you ever been to one of

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<v Speaker 1>those wet bat markets? Think I've been to. I've been

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<v Speaker 1>to all kinds of wet markets, and I've eaten all

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<v Speaker 1>kinds of things that you probably don't want that they think.

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<v Speaker 1>Is that the and that I have not that I can. However,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, I tell you all kinds of ways that

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<v Speaker 1>people kill animals in their own homes in order to

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<v Speaker 1>eat them. And and you know, and so during the

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<v Speaker 1>days when I used to grow up, people actually ate

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<v Speaker 1>their pets in China, um, And you know, not when

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<v Speaker 1>I was that was that was not not an eye

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<v Speaker 1>opening experience at all, That was not at all, not

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<v Speaker 1>at all and I had, you know, even though I

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<v Speaker 1>was in the middle of the third largest city in China,

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<v Speaker 1>I had chick in my kitchen that we would grab

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<v Speaker 1>and kill if we wanted a meal from time to time.

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<v Speaker 1>That's pretty common as well. Um, I mean it's no

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<v Speaker 1>longer the case now, but what markets are quite common.

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<v Speaker 1>They're still enjoyed by the Chinese people. And then it's

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<v Speaker 1>you know, but I hear that you know, the government

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<v Speaker 1>wants to get rid of them because they are now

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<v Speaker 1>just a hotbed for diseases. Um. So you were, we

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<v Speaker 1>were emailing yesterday and you told me the story about

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<v Speaker 1>this uh m m a fighter, yes, journalist and the coronavirus.

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<v Speaker 1>We're gonna take a little break, but we got we

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<v Speaker 1>got to hear this story. This is what the Chinese

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<v Speaker 1>Communist Party is capable of doing. It features at bat

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<v Speaker 1>market and fighting market. That's kind of all the elements

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<v Speaker 1>of the story that you need to keep you to

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<v Speaker 1>stay tuned to the Armstrong, The Armstrong and Getty Show.

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<v Speaker 1>If you get a chance to pick up a copy

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<v Speaker 1>of Chinese Girl in the Ghetto by Yingma, you should

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<v Speaker 1>absolutely read it for a number for reasons. It's so

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<v Speaker 1>for interesting about China's super interesting about uh, the United

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<v Speaker 1>States is seen through the eyes of an immigrant, and

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<v Speaker 1>race relations and all sorts of great stuff. But ying

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<v Speaker 1>mon joins us talk about China and all sorts of

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<v Speaker 1>good stuff. Yeah, this story because we're emailing yesterday, this

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<v Speaker 1>kind of encompasses a couple of things that are in

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<v Speaker 1>the news. Coronavirus, the guy I mean is government, whats

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<v Speaker 1>government is willing to do? Tell the story well, so um,

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<v Speaker 1>and it encompasses m M A, which I know is

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<v Speaker 1>a big deal for for lots of people across this country.

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<v Speaker 1>So let me start with the coronavirus. I mean, as

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<v Speaker 1>we all know, it's it's really become such a big problem.

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<v Speaker 1>There are seventy five thousand cases in China that we

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<v Speaker 1>know of, and the numbers coming out of China at

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<v Speaker 1>all reliable, you know. Um, the answer is we can't

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<v Speaker 1>possibly just believe what they tell us. But even if

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<v Speaker 1>even if we don't, seventy a lot I mean already

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<v Speaker 1>that's what they're admitting to. And then they're the death

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<v Speaker 1>toll is over two hundred, right, and and so look

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<v Speaker 1>and and so um what there are couple of citizen

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<v Speaker 1>journalists that have gone to the epicenter of the virus

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<v Speaker 1>and have tried to done sort of video video youtubeing,

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<v Speaker 1>YouTube videos and others to try to get get the

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<v Speaker 1>word out, figure out what's going on. And and they've

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<v Speaker 1>been disappeared by the authorities. Yes, that's the word that

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<v Speaker 1>And and speaking of China being a communist country, this

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<v Speaker 1>is a word that's commonly used in you know, in

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<v Speaker 1>in the former Soviet Union as well as other countries

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<v Speaker 1>behind the Iron Curtain in the old days. That still

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<v Speaker 1>happens in China. So don't anybody sort of get into

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<v Speaker 1>the temptation of thinking that communism doesn't continue to exist

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<v Speaker 1>in China. And a camp or you don't know, because

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<v Speaker 1>when people were disappeared, we have no idea where they

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<v Speaker 1>are and what and what was their offense they went to.

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<v Speaker 1>They actually risk their lives to go to these hospitals

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<v Speaker 1>where all these people are dying with this coronavirus that

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<v Speaker 1>we don't know very much about. And they reported all

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<v Speaker 1>kinds of things that we other people, including journalists from

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<v Speaker 1>the New Times, had no idea of which is one

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<v Speaker 1>that there is a shortage of hospital beds, two, there

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<v Speaker 1>is a shortage of test kits, and so it's at

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<v Speaker 1>the epicenter of the city where this virus started. You know,

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<v Speaker 1>it becomes a problem right when you see corpses lying

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<v Speaker 1>around in hospitals and they're not being cleared me enough

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<v Speaker 1>or that or that. Within a day, you know, from

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<v Speaker 1>at a major hospital, you see the number of corpses

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<v Speaker 1>go from two to eight in a short amount of time.

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<v Speaker 1>That's the kind of reporting that some of these journalists

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<v Speaker 1>have done. And what did the authorities do? Well, they

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<v Speaker 1>rounded them up And now here's where the m M

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<v Speaker 1>A guy got gets involved. Um. You know, this is

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<v Speaker 1>actually a fascinating story with all these different angles there.

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<v Speaker 1>And for those of you who do any kind of

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<v Speaker 1>martial arts, um, m M A is different, I think,

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<v Speaker 1>And let me make a side tangent here. Um. A

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<v Speaker 1>lot of people have have complained that even though Chinese

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<v Speaker 1>martial arts has this distinguished history, you know, you've got

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<v Speaker 1>all these people there you go, right, but one of

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<v Speaker 1>the one of one of the biggest critiques of traditional

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<v Speaker 1>Chinese martial arts is that is it practical? Can you fight?

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<v Speaker 1>If if a Chinese martial artist, all these people with

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<v Speaker 1>their fancy moves get into the octagon, can you actually

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<v Speaker 1>fight and So there is this Chinese um M M

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<v Speaker 1>A fighter in China who have taken it upon himself

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<v Speaker 1>to expose the fraud, the frauds of of Chinese martial

0:12:27.040 --> 0:12:29.240
<v Speaker 1>arts to say that you find you know, and so

0:12:30.360 --> 0:12:33.600
<v Speaker 1>do you think it's his words? His word? He feels

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<v Speaker 1>that many of these esteem masters in China can't fight,

0:12:37.480 --> 0:12:41.000
<v Speaker 1>and he's challenged and he's challenged them to real fights.

0:12:41.000 --> 0:12:43.360
<v Speaker 1>He's challenged them to real fights. And this is a guy,

0:12:43.840 --> 0:12:47.319
<v Speaker 1>his name Isan. This is a guy who became famous

0:12:47.320 --> 0:12:49.880
<v Speaker 1>because a couple of years ago he knocked out a

0:12:49.880 --> 0:12:52.720
<v Speaker 1>Tai Tea master in twenty seconds, and since then he's

0:12:52.880 --> 0:12:55.960
<v Speaker 1>gone on to challenge other masters. And and so he's cocky,

0:12:56.000 --> 0:13:00.480
<v Speaker 1>he's arrogant, he's obnoxious and outright disrespectful. But he happens

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<v Speaker 1>to be friends with one of the citizen journalists who

0:13:03.600 --> 0:13:07.160
<v Speaker 1>was disappeared. And this m M. A fighter actually is

0:13:07.240 --> 0:13:10.640
<v Speaker 1>one of the few people who had who who actually

0:13:11.280 --> 0:13:14.520
<v Speaker 1>has put his face on a video to say to

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<v Speaker 1>the world that this person, you know, this friend of

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<v Speaker 1>mine is doing this. He was trying to tell the

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<v Speaker 1>truth about the coronavirus and the government rounded him up

0:13:23.160 --> 0:13:25.719
<v Speaker 1>and the government, you know, used the excuse that this

0:13:25.760 --> 0:13:29.080
<v Speaker 1>man was infected with the virus and hence he was quarantined.

0:13:29.600 --> 0:13:32.160
<v Speaker 1>And the m M A fighter says that's complete bs

0:13:32.240 --> 0:13:35.480
<v Speaker 1>and so um and so he might be famous enough

0:13:35.480 --> 0:13:37.920
<v Speaker 1>that they can't disappear him. That's what he was going for. Well,

0:13:38.120 --> 0:13:40.320
<v Speaker 1>he his whole point was, I'm going to put this

0:13:40.440 --> 0:13:42.360
<v Speaker 1>all out there and they're gonna come after me, but

0:13:42.400 --> 0:13:44.720
<v Speaker 1>this is my insurance policy. I don't know how well

0:13:44.720 --> 0:13:50.360
<v Speaker 1>that's see you with just I think she has enough

0:13:50.400 --> 0:13:57.760
<v Speaker 1>people with guns and other and listen, as long as

0:13:57.760 --> 0:14:00.360
<v Speaker 1>we're kind of on the topic, I've heard it said

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<v Speaker 1>that this is fomenting serious, possibly dangerous to the regime

0:14:05.840 --> 0:14:09.439
<v Speaker 1>levels of unrest. Will the steam be let off and

0:14:09.520 --> 0:14:11.040
<v Speaker 1>things you go back to normal or do you think

0:14:11.040 --> 0:14:13.240
<v Speaker 1>this has the potential to drive real change. I would

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<v Speaker 1>say it's fomenting serious discontent unrest. I don't think it's

0:14:17.559 --> 0:14:19.640
<v Speaker 1>gotten to the level of unrest yet. When you're talking

0:14:19.680 --> 0:14:22.960
<v Speaker 1>about unrest, I you know, I'm thinking about mass protests, rallies.

0:14:23.080 --> 0:14:25.160
<v Speaker 1>That's what we saw in Hong Kong, right right, And

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<v Speaker 1>and I'm glad you brought up Hong Kong because I

0:14:27.600 --> 0:14:31.320
<v Speaker 1>think um oh, and this MM a fighter. When the

0:14:31.320 --> 0:14:33.760
<v Speaker 1>Hong Kong protests were at the their high he actually

0:14:33.840 --> 0:14:37.200
<v Speaker 1>went out there and publicly supported the protesters in Hong Kong,

0:14:37.200 --> 0:14:39.960
<v Speaker 1>which is a very rare feat as well. You don't

0:14:39.960 --> 0:14:42.680
<v Speaker 1>see Jackie Chan doing that. Jackie Chan is running around

0:14:42.720 --> 0:14:47.640
<v Speaker 1>condemning the protesters. And so I think one I think

0:14:47.640 --> 0:14:49.680
<v Speaker 1>it sometimes takes people who are a little bit crazy

0:14:49.760 --> 0:14:52.560
<v Speaker 1>and perhaps kind of obnoxious in order to challenge the

0:14:52.600 --> 0:14:55.600
<v Speaker 1>status quo to have the courage to actually say to

0:14:55.680 --> 0:14:58.360
<v Speaker 1>this powerful government, you know, to give the give the

0:14:58.360 --> 0:15:01.480
<v Speaker 1>government the middle finger. Now it comes to unrest and

0:15:01.600 --> 0:15:05.280
<v Speaker 1>discontent in China, you are absolutely right that this um

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<v Speaker 1>epidemic has stirred up all kinds of unrest. People have

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<v Speaker 1>been calling for freedom of speech because if they don't

0:15:11.920 --> 0:15:14.360
<v Speaker 1>have freedom of speech, people die. You know. The government

0:15:14.640 --> 0:15:19.000
<v Speaker 1>has been has been covering up the extent of the illness,

0:15:19.040 --> 0:15:21.360
<v Speaker 1>and and so there's a lot of that. But I

0:15:21.400 --> 0:15:24.080
<v Speaker 1>think what it reminds us of is that what that

0:15:24.240 --> 0:15:29.200
<v Speaker 1>you have to that people who foment unrest or who

0:15:29.520 --> 0:15:32.000
<v Speaker 1>challenge the government, they don't just do it as sort

0:15:32.040 --> 0:15:37.520
<v Speaker 1>of a a a concept. It helps a lot more

0:15:37.600 --> 0:15:41.480
<v Speaker 1>when their lives are at stake. And and so, um

0:15:41.560 --> 0:15:43.640
<v Speaker 1>and so I think for a lot of people in China,

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<v Speaker 1>I don't think they Actually many people in China were

0:15:46.520 --> 0:15:49.600
<v Speaker 1>not firmly behind the protesters in Hong Kong for a

0:15:49.680 --> 0:15:52.840
<v Speaker 1>number of reasons. But I think with something like this,

0:15:52.920 --> 0:15:55.400
<v Speaker 1>where their lives are at stake, it's stirred up all

0:15:55.520 --> 0:15:58.160
<v Speaker 1>kinds of hostility towards the regime and all kinds of

0:15:58.160 --> 0:16:01.760
<v Speaker 1>people asking the regime to actually, you know, make reforms.

0:16:02.600 --> 0:16:04.600
<v Speaker 1>We are just about out of time with Yeng Ma,

0:16:04.840 --> 0:16:07.440
<v Speaker 1>author a Chinese Girl and the Ghetto, contributor to Fox

0:16:07.480 --> 0:16:10.440
<v Speaker 1>News dot com, Washington Examiner, NBC News. Where do you

0:16:10.440 --> 0:16:12.960
<v Speaker 1>want people to to find you, your website, your Twitter

0:16:13.160 --> 0:16:16.480
<v Speaker 1>or whatever? Um so on Twitter, I am um at

0:16:16.640 --> 0:16:20.360
<v Speaker 1>ge z t o ghetto gez to ghetto um and

0:16:20.440 --> 0:16:22.600
<v Speaker 1>my website is Yingma dot org. That is why I

0:16:22.760 --> 0:16:24.800
<v Speaker 1>m g m a dot org. We'll have the links

0:16:24.800 --> 0:16:26.560
<v Speaker 1>that arm Strong and Ghetti dot com so people can

0:16:26.560 --> 0:16:29.000
<v Speaker 1>find them. Really, question about a story in the news

0:16:29.000 --> 0:16:30.880
<v Speaker 1>about China or a book or whatever. She's the one

0:16:30.920 --> 0:16:32.800
<v Speaker 1>that I always email or text or whatever and say,

0:16:32.920 --> 0:16:35.760
<v Speaker 1>what do you think about this? You realize he only

0:16:35.960 --> 0:16:41.880
<v Speaker 1>orders sweet and sour park But I thought I thought

0:16:41.880 --> 0:16:44.320
<v Speaker 1>when I was on with you guys when my book

0:16:44.360 --> 0:16:47.040
<v Speaker 1>first came out. We agree that I would take Jack

0:16:47.120 --> 0:16:52.360
<v Speaker 1>to a Chinese restaurant, an authentic Chinese. Oh boy, alright

0:16:52.360 --> 0:16:58.080
<v Speaker 1>now that's ridiculous, But this is the ugly American right here.

0:16:58.480 --> 0:17:00.760
<v Speaker 1>Try the real authentic, or take me to a wet

0:17:00.760 --> 0:17:06.639
<v Speaker 1>bat market. I'll check and even the coronavirus is over. Fantastic.

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<v Speaker 1>Thanks for going on so much, are strong and Getty