1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:27,600 Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to 2 00:00:27,640 --> 00:00:31,440 Speaker 1: the show, fellow Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always so 3 00:00:31,680 --> 00:00:35,839 Speaker 1: much for joining us. Uh we've got none other than 4 00:00:35,880 --> 00:00:39,520 Speaker 1: the Man, the myth, the legend, our super producer, mister 5 00:00:39,680 --> 00:00:43,120 Speaker 1: Max Masshole Williams joining us. 6 00:00:46,240 --> 00:00:48,320 Speaker 2: Are you a mass guy, You're a You're he's a Michigan, 7 00:00:48,560 --> 00:00:50,800 Speaker 2: You're as I'm a Michigan Michigan. 8 00:00:51,280 --> 00:00:55,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, that's a mister Noel Brown over there on 9 00:00:55,680 --> 00:00:56,680 Speaker 1: the ones and twos. 10 00:00:56,840 --> 00:00:58,880 Speaker 2: I'm not from anywhere. I don't. I don't claim any 11 00:00:59,000 --> 00:01:02,920 Speaker 2: any a young German boy, that's true. I am a 12 00:01:03,280 --> 00:01:06,000 Speaker 2: no I was once a young German German boy. 13 00:01:07,600 --> 00:01:11,200 Speaker 1: I am legally required to disclose that I am called 14 00:01:11,240 --> 00:01:15,959 Speaker 1: Ben Bollen in this art on world. And uh No. 15 00:01:16,480 --> 00:01:22,960 Speaker 1: We had a fascinating conversation, uh, very many years ago 16 00:01:23,440 --> 00:01:29,960 Speaker 1: when we were just absolutely fanboying about this crazy guy 17 00:01:30,440 --> 00:01:37,800 Speaker 1: who is really fascinating author, a podcaster, I would say, 18 00:01:37,959 --> 00:01:41,240 Speaker 1: a thought leader, and one of the nicest people I've 19 00:01:41,319 --> 00:01:43,399 Speaker 1: ever met from Massachusetts. 20 00:01:43,480 --> 00:01:47,160 Speaker 2: Are you talking about Johnny as yet You're not. You're 21 00:01:47,160 --> 00:01:48,520 Speaker 2: talking about Jake Brannan. 22 00:01:49,800 --> 00:01:52,560 Speaker 3: No other dead You guys are two kind. 23 00:01:52,840 --> 00:01:56,480 Speaker 2: Well you may have heard Jake unleash earlier when we 24 00:01:56,480 --> 00:01:59,000 Speaker 2: were talking, and that's that's breaking the fourth wall, which 25 00:01:59,240 --> 00:01:59,920 Speaker 2: was the third one. 26 00:02:00,120 --> 00:02:02,320 Speaker 1: It's the fourth wall, the fourth wall if you're talking 27 00:02:02,360 --> 00:02:06,280 Speaker 1: to the audience, that's right. Jake Brittan is here with 28 00:02:06,400 --> 00:02:10,320 Speaker 1: us right now, coming to us live and direct. Jake, 29 00:02:10,760 --> 00:02:11,320 Speaker 1: how you doing. 30 00:02:11,840 --> 00:02:14,799 Speaker 3: I'm fantastic. I'm stoked to be talking to you guys, 31 00:02:15,040 --> 00:02:19,000 Speaker 3: Excited to be talking ridiculous music history. Fan of your show, 32 00:02:19,560 --> 00:02:23,760 Speaker 3: and anytime I can talk about music with some informed lads, 33 00:02:23,880 --> 00:02:26,360 Speaker 3: I'm happy. So we're right in my sweet spot this actor. 34 00:02:26,440 --> 00:02:29,160 Speaker 2: We're nothing if not informed lads. And as we talked 35 00:02:29,160 --> 00:02:32,000 Speaker 2: about off Mike Ben is not only the king of doors, 36 00:02:32,040 --> 00:02:34,560 Speaker 2: he is also the king of intros and he really 37 00:02:34,600 --> 00:02:37,840 Speaker 2: sets you up beautifully. Our buddy, Jake is an incredible 38 00:02:37,840 --> 00:02:42,040 Speaker 2: podcaster with the Disgrace Lam podcast and various music documentary 39 00:02:42,080 --> 00:02:44,680 Speaker 2: podcasts that sort of have a take a true crime 40 00:02:45,360 --> 00:02:50,000 Speaker 2: fusion with music history approach, and it's an incredible video 41 00:02:50,080 --> 00:02:53,000 Speaker 2: content that you may have seen go viral on the interwebs. 42 00:02:53,080 --> 00:02:56,400 Speaker 2: And again also an author, so we're super stood to 43 00:02:56,440 --> 00:02:58,640 Speaker 2: have you with us, Jake, indeed, to talk about some 44 00:02:58,919 --> 00:03:01,799 Speaker 2: ridiculous music history. This was a little dark. It's one 45 00:03:01,840 --> 00:03:04,040 Speaker 2: that maybe would also feel right at home on our 46 00:03:04,080 --> 00:03:06,040 Speaker 2: sister podcast, Stuff they don't want you to know, because 47 00:03:06,040 --> 00:03:09,760 Speaker 2: we're talking about a bit of a history mystery involving 48 00:03:09,840 --> 00:03:13,600 Speaker 2: a very influential musician by the name of Johnny As 49 00:03:13,680 --> 00:03:16,520 Speaker 2: I've said multiple times, Johnny. 50 00:03:16,160 --> 00:03:18,640 Speaker 3: Ace one of a kind, and I love this. I 51 00:03:18,680 --> 00:03:21,080 Speaker 3: love the conversation because it fits in your wheelhouse. Guys, 52 00:03:21,080 --> 00:03:24,480 Speaker 3: It's kind of like this story. Ninety percent of people 53 00:03:24,480 --> 00:03:26,280 Speaker 3: think it's one thing, but it's actually something else. So 54 00:03:26,320 --> 00:03:29,400 Speaker 3: we're in that historical mythbusting phase, which is a very 55 00:03:29,400 --> 00:03:30,160 Speaker 3: cool spot to be. 56 00:03:36,960 --> 00:03:41,360 Speaker 1: Now, Jake, you're a legendary. I would call you a 57 00:03:41,480 --> 00:03:45,760 Speaker 1: journalist at this point as well as a storyteller. So 58 00:03:46,080 --> 00:03:51,960 Speaker 1: can you introduce us for anyone who is unfamiliar to 59 00:03:52,200 --> 00:03:53,080 Speaker 1: this character? 60 00:03:53,520 --> 00:03:59,120 Speaker 3: Johnny sure, Johnny Ace a Memphis musician sort of in 61 00:03:59,160 --> 00:04:04,560 Speaker 3: the years prior to Elvis breaking out as a first 62 00:04:04,560 --> 00:04:06,400 Speaker 3: a regional star in the South and then as a 63 00:04:06,400 --> 00:04:09,560 Speaker 3: global superstar. So Johnny Ace, look at it this way, 64 00:04:09,600 --> 00:04:13,560 Speaker 3: like Elvis is sixteen years old and he's he's lurking 65 00:04:13,600 --> 00:04:16,880 Speaker 3: around Memphis these clubs. He's kind of like looking into windows. 66 00:04:16,960 --> 00:04:19,559 Speaker 3: It's to the black clubs to watch Ike Turner and 67 00:04:19,680 --> 00:04:22,760 Speaker 3: dealing all their moves. Yeah, exactly. And BB King and 68 00:04:22,760 --> 00:04:25,240 Speaker 3: and Johnny Ace is one of these guys. Johnny Ace 69 00:04:25,400 --> 00:04:29,200 Speaker 3: was at first the piano player in BB King's BB 70 00:04:29,360 --> 00:04:32,440 Speaker 3: King's band called the Beal Streeters before BB King became huge. 71 00:04:32,480 --> 00:04:34,200 Speaker 3: And of course, if you saw the Elvis movie that 72 00:04:34,360 --> 00:04:37,640 Speaker 3: they get into the relationship between Elvis and BB King. 73 00:04:37,680 --> 00:04:42,840 Speaker 3: But Johnny Ace was like, you know, there's there's cool musicians, 74 00:04:43,320 --> 00:04:45,599 Speaker 3: or there's cool people, and then there's just like cool. 75 00:04:45,680 --> 00:04:49,000 Speaker 3: There's a level of cool that's like extraterrestrial, Like even 76 00:04:49,040 --> 00:04:53,599 Speaker 3: the Tom Waits, Yeah, you nailed it. Like like how 77 00:04:53,920 --> 00:04:57,200 Speaker 3: how David Bowie was obsessed with iggy Pop's cool? Like 78 00:04:57,279 --> 00:05:00,400 Speaker 3: that's that's what Johnny Ace was. He was just this 79 00:05:00,680 --> 00:05:03,680 Speaker 3: like young dude in Memphis who is just the coolest 80 00:05:03,800 --> 00:05:07,719 Speaker 3: fucking guy. And Elvis and many others loved him. And 81 00:05:07,960 --> 00:05:10,920 Speaker 3: after you know, Johnny Ace is in Phoebe King's band. 82 00:05:10,920 --> 00:05:13,279 Speaker 3: He starts a solo career after that, and he starts 83 00:05:13,279 --> 00:05:14,919 Speaker 3: to have some some hits on the R and B 84 00:05:15,080 --> 00:05:17,080 Speaker 3: charts under his own name Johnny. 85 00:05:16,800 --> 00:05:19,240 Speaker 2: Ace, And there's a certain kind of cool that you 86 00:05:19,360 --> 00:05:22,360 Speaker 2: describe him that also comes along with a little crazy. Yes, 87 00:05:22,760 --> 00:05:25,440 Speaker 2: if I'm not mistaken, I mean I think I'm not mistaken. 88 00:05:25,480 --> 00:05:27,680 Speaker 2: We've observed it in folks. Do you like you mentioned 89 00:05:27,880 --> 00:05:31,719 Speaker 2: with Iggy Pop? Bowie certainly had his crazy days that 90 00:05:31,800 --> 00:05:34,560 Speaker 2: he got pasted, you know, God rest his soul. But 91 00:05:34,640 --> 00:05:38,320 Speaker 2: where he was just sustaining on milk and red peppers 92 00:05:38,360 --> 00:05:41,359 Speaker 2: and cocaine while watching like Nazi propaganda videos and his 93 00:05:41,440 --> 00:05:42,080 Speaker 2: murder mansion. 94 00:05:42,520 --> 00:05:46,760 Speaker 1: You get in situations is it crazy to be cool 95 00:05:47,000 --> 00:05:50,159 Speaker 1: or is it cool to be crazy? That seems like 96 00:05:50,240 --> 00:05:55,920 Speaker 1: a thesis statement. We're gonna be following along with right, Yeah, So, Jake, 97 00:05:56,160 --> 00:06:00,560 Speaker 1: what first drew you to the story of this up 98 00:06:00,600 --> 00:06:05,840 Speaker 1: and coming cool crazy musician? Uh, Johnny Ace the name 99 00:06:05,920 --> 00:06:08,840 Speaker 1: to go along with it too, that. 100 00:06:08,839 --> 00:06:11,200 Speaker 3: Is Christian name. I doubt it. 101 00:06:11,440 --> 00:06:18,680 Speaker 1: Okay, okay, Johnny Aitz excuse me? All right, So give 102 00:06:18,760 --> 00:06:21,240 Speaker 1: us the providence the origin story, if you may. 103 00:06:21,400 --> 00:06:21,560 Speaker 2: Well. 104 00:06:21,600 --> 00:06:24,880 Speaker 3: I first, I first heard the myth, which is what 105 00:06:25,000 --> 00:06:28,880 Speaker 3: most people hear. And there's a great book by I believe, 106 00:06:29,000 --> 00:06:31,919 Speaker 3: Grail Marcus, and it has all sort of these these 107 00:06:32,360 --> 00:06:35,120 Speaker 3: short littles. An anthology book much like my own, but it's 108 00:06:35,160 --> 00:06:38,080 Speaker 3: it's way better. It's all about these sort of unknown 109 00:06:38,120 --> 00:06:40,720 Speaker 3: hell raisers from the early rock and roll in R 110 00:06:40,760 --> 00:06:41,480 Speaker 3: and B days, and. 111 00:06:41,400 --> 00:06:43,240 Speaker 2: There's and I have to be honest, I was not 112 00:06:43,360 --> 00:06:46,000 Speaker 2: aware of Johnny Ace at all before you texted us 113 00:06:46,080 --> 00:06:49,240 Speaker 2: about this topic. And I do know the Elvis song, 114 00:06:49,320 --> 00:06:51,480 Speaker 2: but kind of only in passing. So I really am 115 00:06:51,480 --> 00:06:53,800 Speaker 2: excited to dig into more of this sisty. But you 116 00:06:53,880 --> 00:06:57,480 Speaker 2: mentioned the kind of providence or the legend, the myth 117 00:06:57,600 --> 00:07:00,400 Speaker 2: behind this sort of inciting events. 118 00:07:00,760 --> 00:07:01,880 Speaker 3: Talk about this today. 119 00:07:02,040 --> 00:07:04,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm just gonna Jake, I'm going to interrupt you 120 00:07:04,760 --> 00:07:07,480 Speaker 1: to brag about you. Uh, Nolan, I'm just going to 121 00:07:07,560 --> 00:07:08,039 Speaker 1: pile on. 122 00:07:08,600 --> 00:07:08,720 Speaker 2: Uh. 123 00:07:10,120 --> 00:07:16,840 Speaker 1: Jake has a book out pretty recently called Disgraceland Musicians 124 00:07:16,920 --> 00:07:21,400 Speaker 1: Getting Away with Murder and Behaving very Badly. I did 125 00:07:21,440 --> 00:07:25,400 Speaker 1: read it. I do think it's beat me here, Max. 126 00:07:25,480 --> 00:07:28,920 Speaker 2: I think it's amazing. Wow, very well, Thank you so much. 127 00:07:29,160 --> 00:07:32,880 Speaker 3: I really appreciate that. You know, there's a through line 128 00:07:32,920 --> 00:07:38,120 Speaker 3: in that book thematically about grief, which is a big 129 00:07:38,160 --> 00:07:41,320 Speaker 3: part of the Grand Parsons chapter in that book, and 130 00:07:41,400 --> 00:07:45,880 Speaker 3: the and the two Elvis chapters, and Elvis was I 131 00:07:46,000 --> 00:07:49,560 Speaker 3: believe perpetually. Others believe this as well, sort of perpetually 132 00:07:49,680 --> 00:07:53,560 Speaker 3: grieving this this loss like a phantom limb, which was 133 00:07:53,600 --> 00:07:57,280 Speaker 3: the death of his of his twin brother who died 134 00:07:57,320 --> 00:07:59,480 Speaker 3: at childbirth, and a lot of people think, you know, 135 00:07:59,480 --> 00:08:02,320 Speaker 3: if they're gonna analyze some armchair psychologists, that that's sort 136 00:08:02,320 --> 00:08:04,480 Speaker 3: of why he was so excessive. He was trying to 137 00:08:04,520 --> 00:08:09,880 Speaker 3: compensate for this thing. And it plays into this story 138 00:08:10,160 --> 00:08:13,400 Speaker 3: somewhat as well. You know, it's like, you guys know 139 00:08:13,440 --> 00:08:15,400 Speaker 3: what it's like because you're so you're you're so music, 140 00:08:15,440 --> 00:08:17,840 Speaker 3: you're so music and culture conscious. You know, like you 141 00:08:17,880 --> 00:08:19,960 Speaker 3: come up in a in a scene and you have 142 00:08:20,720 --> 00:08:23,000 Speaker 3: I'm talking about from Elvis' perspective, and they're sort of 143 00:08:23,040 --> 00:08:26,920 Speaker 3: like older cool guys in your local local scene whatever 144 00:08:26,960 --> 00:08:29,400 Speaker 3: it is, if it's music or if it's acting or 145 00:08:29,400 --> 00:08:31,960 Speaker 3: if it's podcasting, and you're kind of you just you 146 00:08:32,040 --> 00:08:34,120 Speaker 3: just I mean, honestly, no, it was a lot like 147 00:08:34,160 --> 00:08:36,480 Speaker 3: the whole like stuff you should know, crew at iHeart, 148 00:08:36,480 --> 00:08:38,160 Speaker 3: when I first got into podcasting, I was like, I 149 00:08:38,160 --> 00:08:42,559 Speaker 3: want these guys to think I'm cool. O, say, you know, 150 00:08:42,840 --> 00:08:43,280 Speaker 3: prove me. 151 00:08:43,640 --> 00:08:46,680 Speaker 1: Let me put my hands by the window. You know, 152 00:08:47,040 --> 00:08:50,360 Speaker 1: while you guys are playing. Yeah, I know, yeah. 153 00:08:50,160 --> 00:08:52,400 Speaker 2: Well, and also, I mean, you know, it's people you 154 00:08:52,400 --> 00:08:53,960 Speaker 2: look up to, it's people that you want to hear. 155 00:08:54,040 --> 00:08:56,040 Speaker 2: It's the only way you get those stories, and it's 156 00:08:56,040 --> 00:08:59,400 Speaker 2: the only real way to learn about a world like that, 157 00:08:59,480 --> 00:09:02,199 Speaker 2: whether it be podcasting or blues music, and those things 158 00:09:02,240 --> 00:09:05,400 Speaker 2: are definitely equivalent. I and you can fight me on that. 159 00:09:05,640 --> 00:09:07,839 Speaker 2: I would die on that hill. They are the same, yes, 160 00:09:08,400 --> 00:09:10,840 Speaker 2: but no, these people are hugely important to the oral 161 00:09:10,880 --> 00:09:13,760 Speaker 2: tradition and to kind of carrying on a legacy and 162 00:09:13,800 --> 00:09:16,720 Speaker 2: a through line through a genre of music or a scene, 163 00:09:17,040 --> 00:09:19,120 Speaker 2: much like you're talking about there in Memphis, which is 164 00:09:19,120 --> 00:09:21,640 Speaker 2: a storied music scene right right right. 165 00:09:21,679 --> 00:09:23,960 Speaker 3: And so that's who Johnny Ace was to Elvis Presley. 166 00:09:24,040 --> 00:09:25,640 Speaker 3: He was the cool kid on the block, you know, 167 00:09:25,679 --> 00:09:27,840 Speaker 3: and kind of obscure. And he remained that way, you know, 168 00:09:27,880 --> 00:09:30,400 Speaker 3: even even in his passing while Elvis was still alive. 169 00:09:30,440 --> 00:09:33,839 Speaker 3: And you know, the inciting incident. The myth, if you will, 170 00:09:34,040 --> 00:09:36,040 Speaker 3: is this is this story, and I'm going to get 171 00:09:36,040 --> 00:09:39,800 Speaker 3: back to answering your question, Ben, the story that that 172 00:09:39,960 --> 00:09:42,760 Speaker 3: Johnny Ace, this this great R and B singer who 173 00:09:42,840 --> 00:09:45,199 Speaker 3: died at the age of twenty five years old tragically 174 00:09:45,240 --> 00:09:48,640 Speaker 3: from playing Russian Roulette. So I kind of heard that 175 00:09:48,760 --> 00:09:50,760 Speaker 3: in passing as a young man. And then when i 176 00:09:50,760 --> 00:09:53,160 Speaker 3: started the Disgrace Lad podcast and I'm looking for these 177 00:09:53,200 --> 00:09:55,480 Speaker 3: sort of music and true crime stories that I can tell, 178 00:09:55,840 --> 00:09:58,280 Speaker 3: this pops up on the radar and I start researching it, 179 00:09:58,280 --> 00:10:01,760 Speaker 3: and I'm like, mother didn't die from Russian Roulette. 180 00:10:02,280 --> 00:10:04,080 Speaker 2: Man, that's not at all what I mean. 181 00:10:04,080 --> 00:10:05,600 Speaker 3: It kind of is part of the story, but that's 182 00:10:05,640 --> 00:10:08,200 Speaker 3: not what happened. It's a myth though, right, it is 183 00:10:08,240 --> 00:10:10,200 Speaker 3: a myth, And this is my favorite. These are my 184 00:10:10,360 --> 00:10:13,760 Speaker 3: favorite types of stories when you can really when you 185 00:10:13,800 --> 00:10:15,439 Speaker 3: can do a podcast episode if there is a couple 186 00:10:15,520 --> 00:10:17,520 Speaker 3: other big ones that are just like this, Like Mama 187 00:10:17,559 --> 00:10:19,640 Speaker 3: cass Elliott from The Mamas and Papa's did not die. 188 00:10:20,320 --> 00:10:22,600 Speaker 3: She did not die from choking on a ham sandwich. 189 00:10:23,080 --> 00:10:26,160 Speaker 3: You know. Michael Hutchins from In Excess did not die 190 00:10:26,200 --> 00:10:28,679 Speaker 3: from auto eerotic asphyxiation. 191 00:10:28,960 --> 00:10:32,439 Speaker 1: And it was not Robert Johnson but Bobby Johnson. 192 00:10:32,080 --> 00:10:37,240 Speaker 3: Tommy Johnson Johnson. I'm actually, I'm actually my head is 193 00:10:37,360 --> 00:10:39,480 Speaker 3: fully in the Robert Johnson thing right now because I'm 194 00:10:39,520 --> 00:10:43,920 Speaker 3: working on a documentary about how this is kind of 195 00:10:43,920 --> 00:10:46,920 Speaker 3: the take on my Robert Johnson episode that Robert Johnson 196 00:10:47,559 --> 00:10:50,640 Speaker 3: did not sell his soul to the devil. Robert Johnson 197 00:10:51,400 --> 00:10:55,959 Speaker 3: was the devil. Hell yeah, if you actually support if 198 00:10:55,960 --> 00:11:01,040 Speaker 3: you get into how Robert Johnson behaved and what he 199 00:11:01,120 --> 00:11:05,280 Speaker 3: did and what he said about God, and how he 200 00:11:05,520 --> 00:11:09,600 Speaker 3: spoke about real faithful people and people who had faith 201 00:11:09,640 --> 00:11:11,760 Speaker 3: around his friend, his friends stopped hanging around with him 202 00:11:11,760 --> 00:11:17,440 Speaker 3: because they were so like this guy's and then the 203 00:11:17,440 --> 00:11:19,520 Speaker 3: whole trope of selling your soul to the devil. I mean, 204 00:11:19,520 --> 00:11:21,800 Speaker 3: that's kind of a grail. Marcus makes the point that 205 00:11:21,800 --> 00:11:25,040 Speaker 3: that's kind of a racist explanation of being. 206 00:11:24,840 --> 00:11:25,600 Speaker 2: How you got so good? 207 00:11:26,360 --> 00:11:30,440 Speaker 3: Exactly, White journals Exactly, they couldn't. They couldn't explain his talent, 208 00:11:30,480 --> 00:11:32,800 Speaker 3: which the guy sounds like he's playing guitar with three hands. 209 00:11:32,800 --> 00:11:33,559 Speaker 2: It's incredible. 210 00:11:33,960 --> 00:11:38,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe he just what's the old joke? How do 211 00:11:38,080 --> 00:11:40,880 Speaker 1: I get to Broadway? Says a tourist in New York? 212 00:11:41,320 --> 00:11:44,920 Speaker 1: Uh local says, uh, I think practice. 213 00:11:45,720 --> 00:11:48,360 Speaker 2: Carnegie Hall, but Broadway works as well. That both of 214 00:11:48,400 --> 00:11:49,200 Speaker 2: those you got to practice. 215 00:11:49,240 --> 00:11:52,360 Speaker 3: Can I tell you a quick, quick, uh a myth 216 00:11:52,400 --> 00:11:54,320 Speaker 3: busting story about that? That how do you get to 217 00:11:54,360 --> 00:11:57,240 Speaker 3: Carnegie Hall for practice? So I've actually played Carnegie Hall 218 00:11:57,240 --> 00:12:03,440 Speaker 3: and I didn't practice at all. A friend of mine 219 00:12:03,679 --> 00:12:07,080 Speaker 3: was was part of Patti Smith's birthday party as a performer, 220 00:12:07,200 --> 00:12:10,719 Speaker 3: my friend Adam from local Connie in in about four 221 00:12:10,760 --> 00:12:13,800 Speaker 3: or five years ago at Carnegie Hall. And you know, 222 00:12:14,080 --> 00:12:16,400 Speaker 3: Patty gets out there, she's doing Gloria, and I'm side 223 00:12:16,400 --> 00:12:19,200 Speaker 3: stage with all these musicians and all these musicians, Josh 224 00:12:19,280 --> 00:12:21,600 Speaker 3: Ritter and David Johanson. They just start walking out on 225 00:12:21,640 --> 00:12:23,840 Speaker 3: stage to sing backups, and I'm like, I just kind 226 00:12:23,840 --> 00:12:28,040 Speaker 3: of got caught up with them all. There's a picture 227 00:12:28,040 --> 00:12:30,520 Speaker 3: of me and Rolling Stone behind Patty Smith and Carnie. 228 00:12:31,800 --> 00:12:36,120 Speaker 1: That's amazing. So one thing we love about a Chlorus 229 00:12:36,280 --> 00:12:37,880 Speaker 1: is everyone can sing along. 230 00:12:38,000 --> 00:12:39,840 Speaker 3: Yes hopefully yes. 231 00:12:40,520 --> 00:12:45,040 Speaker 1: And again, Tom Waits, if you're listening, you are part 232 00:12:45,120 --> 00:12:48,960 Speaker 1: of Americana and we'd love for you to hang out 233 00:12:49,000 --> 00:12:55,160 Speaker 1: with Jake on his show. Jake, the Boys and I 234 00:12:55,240 --> 00:12:58,760 Speaker 1: were very close to getting Tom Waits to do a 235 00:12:58,800 --> 00:13:04,160 Speaker 1: show with us. Story he only accepts payments in nineteen 236 00:13:04,400 --> 00:13:08,280 Speaker 1: fifty seven used Chevy car parts. 237 00:13:08,440 --> 00:13:11,720 Speaker 2: It's true. And also, you know Pirate do balloon. 238 00:13:11,880 --> 00:13:14,800 Speaker 3: I literally can't tell if you're sing with me or. 239 00:13:14,720 --> 00:13:17,839 Speaker 2: Not, okay, and I usually can't. And that's just the 240 00:13:17,880 --> 00:13:18,520 Speaker 2: way of the world. 241 00:13:18,640 --> 00:13:20,640 Speaker 3: Like I don't believe that from Tom Waits, like I 242 00:13:20,600 --> 00:13:21,439 Speaker 3: would believe. 243 00:13:21,520 --> 00:13:24,280 Speaker 2: A million pent man. I love that. What a good 244 00:13:24,280 --> 00:13:25,840 Speaker 2: loafed trick he used to do. And he would just 245 00:13:25,840 --> 00:13:28,320 Speaker 2: have like, what is it like chalk dust like on 246 00:13:28,360 --> 00:13:30,400 Speaker 2: the stage and he's just stomping in the chalk dust 247 00:13:30,600 --> 00:13:32,720 Speaker 2: and it just looks like he's just kicking up dustbou 248 00:13:32,720 --> 00:13:34,880 Speaker 2: It's the coolest thing. What a cool guy. I'd love 249 00:13:34,880 --> 00:13:37,240 Speaker 2: to go back really quickly to your point about the 250 00:13:37,360 --> 00:13:40,080 Speaker 2: racist trope or the inherent racist trope of like selling 251 00:13:40,120 --> 00:13:43,520 Speaker 2: your soul of the devil, because nobody accused Django Reinhart 252 00:13:43,559 --> 00:13:45,120 Speaker 2: of selling his soul to the devil, and that guy 253 00:13:45,120 --> 00:13:47,880 Speaker 2: played guitar with two fingers. Yeah, so I'm just. 254 00:13:49,480 --> 00:13:51,120 Speaker 1: The other ring, Yeah yeah. 255 00:13:51,200 --> 00:13:53,880 Speaker 3: Or Tony Iomi from Black Sabbath, who literally doesn't have 256 00:13:53,920 --> 00:13:57,440 Speaker 3: fingertips and somehow somehow figured out how to create an 257 00:13:57,600 --> 00:14:00,199 Speaker 3: entire genre called heavy metal. No one, no one Tim 258 00:14:00,200 --> 00:14:03,199 Speaker 3: is selling a soul to the devil either. Yeah, I 259 00:14:03,480 --> 00:14:05,040 Speaker 3: don't know. I mean, I don't think it's one of 260 00:14:05,040 --> 00:14:09,640 Speaker 3: these things that was like purposefully racist or or whatever. 261 00:14:09,760 --> 00:14:13,920 Speaker 3: It's just like it just it just happened. And it's 262 00:14:13,960 --> 00:14:16,679 Speaker 3: interesting when you when you when you actually unpack it 263 00:14:16,720 --> 00:14:19,800 Speaker 3: and that that trope, you know, it goes back like 264 00:14:20,480 --> 00:14:22,960 Speaker 3: me and the Devil Walking or whatever the lyric is 265 00:14:22,960 --> 00:14:26,960 Speaker 3: from Robert Johnson, it actually goes back to the sort 266 00:14:26,960 --> 00:14:31,880 Speaker 3: of blackface minstrel uh lyrics that you know, back then 267 00:14:31,960 --> 00:14:35,720 Speaker 3: those songs were considered pop music, so Robert Johnson. 268 00:14:35,360 --> 00:14:36,080 Speaker 2: Would play those. 269 00:14:36,480 --> 00:14:39,240 Speaker 3: So the reality is he got a lot of that 270 00:14:39,800 --> 00:14:44,440 Speaker 3: devil imagery in his lyrics from white dudes in blackface 271 00:14:44,720 --> 00:14:48,840 Speaker 3: who were who were co opting black music from the 272 00:14:48,880 --> 00:14:50,320 Speaker 3: slave era, you know what I'm saying. 273 00:14:50,360 --> 00:14:52,800 Speaker 2: So it's so weird for him to be reving to 274 00:14:52,880 --> 00:14:57,440 Speaker 2: reverse cover the songs that were co opting this imagined 275 00:14:57,600 --> 00:15:01,800 Speaker 2: version of his like legacy or his you know, his people. 276 00:15:01,880 --> 00:15:03,200 Speaker 2: That's really wild. 277 00:15:04,200 --> 00:15:16,240 Speaker 1: Mirrors game of telephone. As we continue, uh, Jake nol, 278 00:15:16,400 --> 00:15:21,840 Speaker 1: I believe we need to explain just briefly what we 279 00:15:22,040 --> 00:15:26,880 Speaker 1: mean by Russian roulette, which is itself also mythologized. 280 00:15:27,200 --> 00:15:29,400 Speaker 2: Yes, sure, and it's also one of those things where yeah, 281 00:15:29,400 --> 00:15:32,080 Speaker 2: it's exactly there's a lot of a lot of Russian. 282 00:15:32,240 --> 00:15:33,800 Speaker 2: There's a whole movie about it where there's like a 283 00:15:33,880 --> 00:15:36,520 Speaker 2: Russian Roulette club. I forget what it's called, but it's 284 00:15:36,560 --> 00:15:39,680 Speaker 2: like a Eastern European art film and it's about this 285 00:15:39,800 --> 00:15:44,440 Speaker 2: like fight club where people like play Russian roulette for whatever, 286 00:15:44,720 --> 00:15:47,520 Speaker 2: as high a stakes as you could possibly have. So, yes, 287 00:15:47,560 --> 00:15:50,440 Speaker 2: do tell Jake, give us a little bit about Russian rule. 288 00:15:50,520 --> 00:15:50,920 Speaker 1: What is it? 289 00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:54,440 Speaker 3: Well, if you would both refer to the thirty two 290 00:15:54,480 --> 00:15:58,880 Speaker 3: snubnose I sent to both of you, right, yeah, load 291 00:15:58,920 --> 00:16:02,080 Speaker 3: both of those up the utility gun. Yeah, there you go. 292 00:16:02,440 --> 00:16:04,880 Speaker 3: And then yeah, just there's one bullet in the in 293 00:16:05,040 --> 00:16:07,400 Speaker 3: one bullet in the in the what do you call 294 00:16:07,400 --> 00:16:10,040 Speaker 3: it the chamber there or the barrel, I don't even know. Uh, 295 00:16:10,120 --> 00:16:12,520 Speaker 3: just you know, make that go whirly whirl and then 296 00:16:12,760 --> 00:16:14,480 Speaker 3: and then put it put it to her, put it 297 00:16:14,520 --> 00:16:15,960 Speaker 3: to your yet there you go, There you go. Now 298 00:16:15,960 --> 00:16:17,080 Speaker 3: we don't know where the bullet is. 299 00:16:17,160 --> 00:16:19,480 Speaker 2: There's to do the hard click and close it. Now 300 00:16:19,640 --> 00:16:26,040 Speaker 2: that's the most badass movies. He got it, Hey guy, Okay, 301 00:16:26,200 --> 00:16:26,680 Speaker 2: there you go. 302 00:16:26,760 --> 00:16:29,000 Speaker 3: So now there's six options, there's six places that bullet 303 00:16:29,040 --> 00:16:30,560 Speaker 3: might be. It's only going to be in one, you 304 00:16:30,560 --> 00:16:32,840 Speaker 3: have a one in six chance of shooting yourself in 305 00:16:32,880 --> 00:16:35,760 Speaker 3: the head if you put that gun that thirty two 306 00:16:35,760 --> 00:16:40,480 Speaker 3: stubs two year temple and pull the trigger. Now, I'm 307 00:16:40,640 --> 00:16:42,200 Speaker 3: you know, I know, we're not actually going to reenact 308 00:16:42,200 --> 00:16:44,000 Speaker 3: that scene from Deer Hunter right here, as much as 309 00:16:44,040 --> 00:16:47,440 Speaker 3: I kind of want to. Uh, but this is what 310 00:16:47,560 --> 00:16:51,640 Speaker 3: Johnny Ace would do for fun. In addition to drinking 311 00:16:51,640 --> 00:16:55,160 Speaker 3: courts of vodka. Uh. This was his sort of like 312 00:16:55,320 --> 00:16:58,120 Speaker 3: parlor trick that he would whip out backstage to sort 313 00:16:58,120 --> 00:16:59,359 Speaker 3: of entertain his friends. 314 00:16:59,640 --> 00:17:02,040 Speaker 2: He was quite quite a fan of just waving his 315 00:17:02,080 --> 00:17:04,600 Speaker 2: peace around in general. Right when I say his peace, 316 00:17:04,640 --> 00:17:06,760 Speaker 2: I mean his his pistol. Oh, we know we meant no. 317 00:17:09,080 --> 00:17:15,240 Speaker 1: So okay. So this is different from Australian roulette, which, 318 00:17:15,280 --> 00:17:18,720 Speaker 1: as we know, is the thing where you aim the 319 00:17:18,760 --> 00:17:25,919 Speaker 1: gun at your lower parts. Yeah, I'm doing geography jokes. 320 00:17:25,960 --> 00:17:29,160 Speaker 1: They're not all gonna land. I thought that was real too. 321 00:17:29,480 --> 00:17:33,360 Speaker 1: So one out of six and this guy John Marshall 322 00:17:33,800 --> 00:17:35,760 Speaker 1: Alexander right, full dame. 323 00:17:36,400 --> 00:17:38,919 Speaker 3: For Johnny Ace. Yeah, if you say so, but I 324 00:17:38,960 --> 00:17:40,359 Speaker 3: have it somewhere. But yeah, that makes sense. 325 00:17:41,480 --> 00:17:44,880 Speaker 1: Okay, So Johnny Ace, we're going by this guy, this 326 00:17:44,920 --> 00:17:48,720 Speaker 1: guy would literally jake backstage. He would put a gun 327 00:17:48,800 --> 00:17:51,720 Speaker 1: to his head. Yeah yeah, do the spin and the click. 328 00:17:51,920 --> 00:17:52,120 Speaker 2: Yeah. 329 00:17:52,160 --> 00:17:55,119 Speaker 3: So this is a this is a Christmas story because 330 00:17:55,160 --> 00:17:55,800 Speaker 3: this this. 331 00:17:56,119 --> 00:17:58,000 Speaker 2: Oh we forgot to mention. This is our this is 332 00:17:58,000 --> 00:17:58,840 Speaker 2: our holiday. 333 00:17:58,920 --> 00:18:01,200 Speaker 1: This this is our holiday episode. 334 00:18:01,200 --> 00:18:05,080 Speaker 3: Thank you Starbucks, Merry Christmas. So this happens on Christmas 335 00:18:05,200 --> 00:18:10,880 Speaker 3: Day nineteen fifty four. He's backstage. Johnny Ace's backstage with 336 00:18:10,960 --> 00:18:15,240 Speaker 3: his labelmate and friend, Big Mama Thornton, who had the 337 00:18:15,280 --> 00:18:18,280 Speaker 3: first hit with the Lieber and Stoller tune Hound Dog, 338 00:18:18,400 --> 00:18:22,119 Speaker 3: which Elvis made a massive hit with later on. So 339 00:18:22,160 --> 00:18:26,040 Speaker 3: it's Johnny Ace, Big Mama Thornton backstage and Johnny Ace's 340 00:18:26,080 --> 00:18:31,040 Speaker 3: girlfriend at the time, Olivia, and BB King is out 341 00:18:31,119 --> 00:18:35,840 Speaker 3: on stage. This is in Houston. He's playing with It's 342 00:18:36,000 --> 00:18:37,720 Speaker 3: kind of like a big review show and I think 343 00:18:37,760 --> 00:18:39,080 Speaker 3: Johnny Otis is kind of. 344 00:18:39,040 --> 00:18:39,840 Speaker 2: Like the MC. 345 00:18:40,240 --> 00:18:42,080 Speaker 3: So there's a whole thing going on out there. Johnny 346 00:18:42,080 --> 00:18:43,879 Speaker 3: as has already played I believe, and he's back there 347 00:18:43,920 --> 00:18:46,280 Speaker 3: and he's getting shit faced as he was wont to 348 00:18:46,320 --> 00:18:50,800 Speaker 3: do with a court of vodka and he's you know, 349 00:18:51,080 --> 00:18:55,600 Speaker 3: entertaining quote unquote Olivia, his girl, and Big Mama Thornton 350 00:18:55,640 --> 00:18:59,160 Speaker 3: by playing Russian or trying to play Russian roulette. Typically 351 00:18:59,160 --> 00:19:00,480 Speaker 3: when you this is the thing, This is where the 352 00:19:00,520 --> 00:19:03,280 Speaker 3: myth comes into play. When you play Russian roulette. It's 353 00:19:03,480 --> 00:19:05,280 Speaker 3: three or four guys sitting around a table like we 354 00:19:05,359 --> 00:19:08,680 Speaker 3: are a virtual table, but a real table, and and 355 00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:11,400 Speaker 3: you spin the barrel and you click, and if you survive, 356 00:19:11,480 --> 00:19:13,560 Speaker 3: you pass the gun to somebody else. And people are 357 00:19:13,600 --> 00:19:15,960 Speaker 3: betting on this, and you're betting on this as well, 358 00:19:16,440 --> 00:19:18,560 Speaker 3: and you just pass the gun around until someone actually 359 00:19:18,600 --> 00:19:22,600 Speaker 3: kills himself. And this was that's Russian roulette. 360 00:19:22,960 --> 00:19:25,040 Speaker 1: Well, you spin it between the turn. 361 00:19:24,880 --> 00:19:26,480 Speaker 3: You spin it between the turns, I believe. 362 00:19:26,480 --> 00:19:28,640 Speaker 2: Can I just say the film that I was talking about, 363 00:19:28,680 --> 00:19:30,760 Speaker 2: I just looked at it and it's called thirteen and 364 00:19:30,800 --> 00:19:34,040 Speaker 2: it's pretty cool. And in this article that mentions thirteen 365 00:19:34,160 --> 00:19:36,680 Speaker 2: from Russia Beyond, they have some pretty cool stats. So 366 00:19:36,720 --> 00:19:38,960 Speaker 2: they break it down. The first attempt you got a 367 00:19:39,000 --> 00:19:42,680 Speaker 2: sixteen point six percent chance, the second twenty percent chance, 368 00:19:42,720 --> 00:19:45,600 Speaker 2: the third twenty five percent, the fourth thirty three point three, 369 00:19:45,880 --> 00:19:48,800 Speaker 2: and the fifth fifty percent. The sixth shot, of course, 370 00:19:48,920 --> 00:19:49,760 Speaker 2: is always fatal. 371 00:19:49,840 --> 00:19:53,520 Speaker 1: Oh okay, okay, Well you spin it between the turns. 372 00:19:53,520 --> 00:19:55,560 Speaker 1: Because you want to keep the casino going. 373 00:19:55,640 --> 00:19:57,760 Speaker 2: But it's not okay, you don't have to say. I 374 00:19:57,800 --> 00:19:59,320 Speaker 2: guess there's a version of it too where maybe you 375 00:19:59,320 --> 00:20:03,560 Speaker 2: don't spin it, but like you, you know, wherever it starts, 376 00:20:03,760 --> 00:20:06,480 Speaker 2: you've got that many you know you're gonna potentially land 377 00:20:06,480 --> 00:20:09,439 Speaker 2: on the bullet eventually. It could be two away, it 378 00:20:09,440 --> 00:20:11,240 Speaker 2: could be three away, it could be four away. So 379 00:20:11,320 --> 00:20:13,719 Speaker 2: maybe you don't if you don't spin it, those are 380 00:20:13,760 --> 00:20:14,800 Speaker 2: the Those are the odds. 381 00:20:15,160 --> 00:20:21,800 Speaker 1: I like your reference to deer Hunter Jake, which is fundamental. 382 00:20:23,480 --> 00:20:28,440 Speaker 1: It's fundamentally important to this because it already tells us 383 00:20:29,840 --> 00:20:36,679 Speaker 1: our protagonist here, Johnny Ace is meeting with you know, 384 00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:42,600 Speaker 1: secular popular success, but he's maybe not in the best 385 00:20:42,600 --> 00:20:46,520 Speaker 1: place mentally if he's drinking a court of vodka and 386 00:20:46,560 --> 00:20:47,360 Speaker 1: then say. 387 00:20:47,280 --> 00:20:48,160 Speaker 2: Playing with guns. 388 00:20:48,280 --> 00:20:50,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, say, hey, you know what we should do while 389 00:20:50,840 --> 00:20:54,000 Speaker 1: I'm drunk. We should try to shoot each other in 390 00:20:54,080 --> 00:20:54,440 Speaker 1: the head. 391 00:20:54,760 --> 00:20:54,960 Speaker 2: Yeah. 392 00:20:54,960 --> 00:20:57,600 Speaker 3: I couldn't get a lot of info on Johnny Ace's 393 00:20:57,760 --> 00:21:00,000 Speaker 3: state of mind. Is not a lot written about him, 394 00:21:00,119 --> 00:21:02,960 Speaker 3: but what I did uncover is that and this goes 395 00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:06,240 Speaker 3: to sort of the conspiracy around this. Okay, so there's 396 00:21:06,280 --> 00:21:10,560 Speaker 3: the myth and there's the conspiracy, and I'm gonna I'm gonna, 397 00:21:10,600 --> 00:21:13,320 Speaker 3: I'm gonna comment on your comment, Ben by setting these 398 00:21:13,320 --> 00:21:15,240 Speaker 3: two ups. So the myth is, of course he died 399 00:21:15,280 --> 00:21:19,359 Speaker 3: playing Russian Roulette, which he did not. He eventually does 400 00:21:19,560 --> 00:21:22,119 Speaker 3: in front of Big Mama Thornton and Johnny Ace shoot 401 00:21:22,200 --> 00:21:27,119 Speaker 3: himself and dies backstage, right. So that's the myth, is 402 00:21:27,119 --> 00:21:28,960 Speaker 3: that he played Russian Ulette. No one else was playing. 403 00:21:29,119 --> 00:21:30,679 Speaker 3: They were trying to get him to stop, and he 404 00:21:30,680 --> 00:21:35,840 Speaker 3: wouldn't stop. Okay, there's there's a conspiracy, and then there's 405 00:21:35,880 --> 00:21:39,280 Speaker 3: the truth, which is conspiracy adjacent that I happened to believe. 406 00:21:39,320 --> 00:21:43,919 Speaker 3: So the conspiracy is that Big Mama Thornton snuck a 407 00:21:43,960 --> 00:21:48,120 Speaker 3: bullet into the twenty two that Johnny Ace had. 408 00:21:48,280 --> 00:21:50,359 Speaker 2: Because she was just tired of all his snites, all 409 00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:54,840 Speaker 2: his foolishness. He had just been acting a fool backstage, 410 00:21:55,480 --> 00:21:58,960 Speaker 2: just drinking too much, throwing weapons around. She was just like, 411 00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:01,320 Speaker 2: I'm putting a stop to this. And now we're at folklore. 412 00:22:01,720 --> 00:22:03,400 Speaker 3: Yeah, so that's a yes. 413 00:22:03,880 --> 00:22:07,879 Speaker 1: So we're saying the hidden bullet is the conspiracy theory. 414 00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:10,240 Speaker 3: This is the conspiracy. Now people actually believe this. I'm 415 00:22:10,280 --> 00:22:12,200 Speaker 3: not one of them. People believe the Big Mama Thornton 416 00:22:13,080 --> 00:22:18,040 Speaker 3: had done this on behest of a guy named Don Roby, 417 00:22:18,520 --> 00:22:23,160 Speaker 3: who is the most fascinating character in this story. Don 418 00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:28,199 Speaker 3: Roby was a proto sug Knight. Don Roby was to 419 00:22:28,480 --> 00:22:33,040 Speaker 3: R and B what al Pohone was to the Chicago Mafia. 420 00:22:33,200 --> 00:22:41,080 Speaker 3: Don Roby was a larger than life, violent, exploitative black 421 00:22:41,680 --> 00:22:43,880 Speaker 3: Jewish gangster from Houston. 422 00:22:44,240 --> 00:22:46,760 Speaker 2: Didn't he wasn't he a label head? Kind of yes, 423 00:22:46,880 --> 00:22:48,880 Speaker 2: he was a Duke record. 424 00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:51,000 Speaker 3: He was the head of a record label that was 425 00:22:51,080 --> 00:22:54,879 Speaker 3: first called Peacock, and then he merged that with a 426 00:22:54,960 --> 00:22:59,520 Speaker 3: white radio promoter last name of Mattis, who had a 427 00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:03,040 Speaker 3: label called Duke and then it became Duke Peacock for 428 00:23:03,080 --> 00:23:05,320 Speaker 3: a while. To paint the picture of who this guy was, 429 00:23:05,359 --> 00:23:07,520 Speaker 3: he also had a club called like the Golden Peak. 430 00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:09,680 Speaker 3: Wasn't the Golden Peacock, but it was just something Peacock 431 00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:16,160 Speaker 3: uh in Houston, And every Saturday morning he would take 432 00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:18,560 Speaker 3: all the cash he made at the club the night before, 433 00:23:18,720 --> 00:23:21,280 Speaker 3: throw it in a burlap bag, put it over his shoulder, 434 00:23:21,320 --> 00:23:23,879 Speaker 3: take his shotgun, put two shells in the shotgun, put 435 00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:28,080 Speaker 3: that on his other shoulder, and waltz downtown through Houston, 436 00:23:28,440 --> 00:23:31,040 Speaker 3: daring anyone to fuck with him while he went to 437 00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:33,399 Speaker 3: the bank to deposit the money. He did this himself 438 00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:35,560 Speaker 3: because he did not believe that anybody was tough enough, 439 00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:39,000 Speaker 3: tough as him, violent as him, violent enough to fend 440 00:23:39,040 --> 00:23:41,160 Speaker 3: off anybody who would actually try to rob him. 441 00:23:41,160 --> 00:23:43,000 Speaker 2: It's also a bit of a flex to like show 442 00:23:43,040 --> 00:23:43,440 Speaker 2: how tough. 443 00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:46,400 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yes, like you. 444 00:23:46,359 --> 00:23:49,760 Speaker 1: Were saying, Jake sug Knight is a pretty good analog. 445 00:23:50,080 --> 00:23:52,240 Speaker 3: Yes, exactly, that exactly. 446 00:23:52,920 --> 00:23:55,920 Speaker 1: Okay, so we got this, we got this character. 447 00:23:56,280 --> 00:23:59,800 Speaker 3: Mm hmm. Yes, So Don Robi had all his bases covered. 448 00:23:59,800 --> 00:24:03,679 Speaker 3: He had he had the label which Johnny Yace was 449 00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:07,639 Speaker 3: signed to, and Big Mama Thornton, Peacock Records, venue, the venue, 450 00:24:07,720 --> 00:24:10,200 Speaker 3: the whatever Peacock Club, and then. 451 00:24:10,119 --> 00:24:15,600 Speaker 1: Probably also had some he could probably also touch local politicians, 452 00:24:15,640 --> 00:24:16,800 Speaker 1: maybe law enforcement. 453 00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:19,600 Speaker 3: I don't know about that. Who knows. Probably, I mean 454 00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:22,399 Speaker 3: that you start, who knows what those relationships are. But 455 00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:26,400 Speaker 3: he also had he was a booking agent, and he 456 00:24:26,520 --> 00:24:29,600 Speaker 3: was one of the first successful promoters on what would 457 00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:32,280 Speaker 3: become to be known the Chitman Circuit, which was the 458 00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:35,960 Speaker 3: Black R and B network of clubs throughout throughout America 459 00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:39,600 Speaker 3: during this time. So he represented uh, he was the first, 460 00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:42,760 Speaker 3: he represented Little Richard early on on the road, he 461 00:24:42,800 --> 00:24:47,280 Speaker 3: represented Clarence Gatemouth Brown and T bone Walker, these Texas 462 00:24:47,320 --> 00:24:52,160 Speaker 3: blues musicians. So he's kinda got his hands. He's all 463 00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:56,199 Speaker 3: over the board. And and what he wants more than anything. 464 00:24:56,200 --> 00:25:01,679 Speaker 3: What Don Roby wants more than anything is hit on 465 00:25:01,760 --> 00:25:07,200 Speaker 3: the white pop charts. Now, Johnny Ace had a hit 466 00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:11,480 Speaker 3: on the R and B chart, number one hit with 467 00:25:12,760 --> 00:25:15,680 Speaker 3: Oh God, what was the name of the song? My song? 468 00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:17,240 Speaker 3: That was the name of the song, my song? Number 469 00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:19,200 Speaker 3: one hit for Johnny Ace on the R and B charts, 470 00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:23,320 Speaker 3: didn't sniff the pop charts. Big Mama Thornton, she does 471 00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:26,000 Speaker 3: the liber and Stoller song I Ain't Nothing but a 472 00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:28,240 Speaker 3: hound Dog. It's a hit on the R and B charts, 473 00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:31,240 Speaker 3: and Elvis covers it and it becomes a huge hit 474 00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:32,720 Speaker 3: on the white charts. But then it becomes kind of 475 00:25:32,720 --> 00:25:34,879 Speaker 3: a novelty song. But Don Roby starts to get a 476 00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:36,639 Speaker 3: sniff of how much money is available if he can 477 00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:38,040 Speaker 3: get a chart on the white if you can get 478 00:25:38,040 --> 00:25:39,640 Speaker 3: a song on the white chart, on the pop chart, 479 00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:42,200 Speaker 3: So he really wants this for Johnny Aace. He thinks 480 00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:44,359 Speaker 3: Johnny Ace is so cool, he's got the charisma to 481 00:25:44,359 --> 00:25:46,920 Speaker 3: actually be able to pull this off to cross over, 482 00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:51,560 Speaker 3: and it doesn't happen for Johnny Aace. Now this when 483 00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:56,080 Speaker 3: Johnny shoots himself. It's nineteen fifty four, that's on Christmas Day, 484 00:25:56,359 --> 00:26:01,360 Speaker 3: on New Year's Day, nineteen fifty three, Hank Williamiams dies, 485 00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:04,280 Speaker 3: And what happens to Hank Williams single at the time. 486 00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:07,400 Speaker 3: It rockets up the charts and it becomes a hit 487 00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:10,919 Speaker 3: number one hit, not on the country charts, on the 488 00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:17,000 Speaker 3: pop charts, and Don Roeby goes, oh, okay, okay, when 489 00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:19,960 Speaker 3: you die. When Hank Williams I'll Never Get out of 490 00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:23,119 Speaker 3: This World Alive is available for the public as a 491 00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:26,360 Speaker 3: single and the artist dies, that'll go to the number one, 492 00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:31,880 Speaker 3: number one on the pop charts. 493 00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:36,840 Speaker 2: Maybe not with his singles per se, but we've seen 494 00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:39,639 Speaker 2: plenty of that phenomenon with like the death of Prince 495 00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:41,919 Speaker 2: or David Rowley, like all of a sudden, purple rains 496 00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:44,280 Speaker 2: like on the charts again like and people are just 497 00:26:44,560 --> 00:26:48,439 Speaker 2: hard to find a reissue. So this is very real phenomenon. 498 00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:51,520 Speaker 2: The question then becomes was the dude just a little 499 00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:54,520 Speaker 2: bit callous in releasing the single post mortem, or did 500 00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:59,040 Speaker 2: he actually manipulate events to create the situation that led 501 00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:01,040 Speaker 2: to Johnny Ace's timely demise. 502 00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:06,320 Speaker 3: Yeah, so that single, Johnny Ace's single at the time 503 00:27:06,440 --> 00:27:10,320 Speaker 3: the day he died on Christmas was Pledging My Love, 504 00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:14,280 Speaker 3: was actually already out. It had just been released. So 505 00:27:14,359 --> 00:27:18,480 Speaker 3: the conspiracy piece of this is that people think Don 506 00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:25,159 Speaker 3: Roby had manipulated Big Mama Thornton into doing his bidding 507 00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:27,560 Speaker 3: by slipping that bullet in the chamber. So if you 508 00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:29,720 Speaker 3: think Don Roby wants this number one hit, he wants 509 00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:33,080 Speaker 3: Johnny Ace dead, then you've got motive. If you think 510 00:27:33,119 --> 00:27:37,159 Speaker 3: that Johnny Ace is a reckless drunkard who likes a 511 00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:40,600 Speaker 3: lot of gunplay, then you've got Then you've got means. 512 00:27:41,119 --> 00:27:44,240 Speaker 3: And that's sort of how the conspiracy took off. 513 00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:48,399 Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, And then the question becomes, I don't know. 514 00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:50,600 Speaker 2: We talk about the stuff like this on our other show, 515 00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:52,080 Speaker 2: Stuff they don't want you to know with our buddy 516 00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:55,560 Speaker 2: Matt quite a lot. And oftentimes the more elaborate the conspiracy, 517 00:27:55,600 --> 00:27:58,240 Speaker 2: the less likely such a conspiracy was required to make 518 00:27:58,280 --> 00:28:00,399 Speaker 2: the thing happen, You know what I mean. It's just 519 00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:03,520 Speaker 2: the situation was already rife for dude to blow his 520 00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:06,159 Speaker 2: own head off by drinking too much and you know, 521 00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:07,600 Speaker 2: flashing his gun around. 522 00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:10,360 Speaker 3: You're exactly right, You're exactly right. And this is where 523 00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:13,080 Speaker 3: the myth busting piece comes into play too, because what 524 00:28:13,280 --> 00:28:18,600 Speaker 3: happens after he dies is it's perfect for Don Roby 525 00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:23,560 Speaker 3: because the press, being the duplicitest lying scumbags that they 526 00:28:23,760 --> 00:28:27,119 Speaker 3: just have forever been sure, they pick up the story 527 00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:29,600 Speaker 3: and they leave out half the facts, and literally the 528 00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:33,080 Speaker 3: headlines are that he died playing Russian Roulette, and he's 529 00:28:33,080 --> 00:28:35,159 Speaker 3: got this song called Pledge in My Love and it 530 00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:37,520 Speaker 3: starts to go up the charts, and it starts to 531 00:28:37,560 --> 00:28:40,000 Speaker 3: become a huge hit. And Don Roby's not gonna call 532 00:28:40,040 --> 00:28:42,080 Speaker 3: anyone up at the Houston Chronicle and be like, oh, 533 00:28:42,120 --> 00:28:44,520 Speaker 3: excuse me, you got that wrong. No, he didn't die 534 00:28:44,520 --> 00:28:46,520 Speaker 3: from Russian Roulette. He died because he was drunk and 535 00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:49,600 Speaker 3: playing with a gun. So the myth just is allowed 536 00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:51,720 Speaker 3: to take shape. The records start. 537 00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:54,040 Speaker 2: To sell, and a guy like that can't buy that 538 00:28:54,120 --> 00:28:57,520 Speaker 2: kind of coverage. And that's just the right level of 539 00:28:57,560 --> 00:29:00,520 Speaker 2: getting it wrong that benefits him because it creates it's 540 00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:04,440 Speaker 2: this mythological larger than life, this crazy guy, not just 541 00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:06,440 Speaker 2: this drunken buffoon who maybe had a little too much 542 00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:08,960 Speaker 2: to drink and accidentally shot himself. 543 00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:13,760 Speaker 1: Well, now it's folklore. Now it's zeitgeist. Now it's also, 544 00:29:14,760 --> 00:29:19,520 Speaker 1: as you said, Jake, it's hitting past the chitlin circuit, right, 545 00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:24,240 Speaker 1: it's public interest. Everybody is talking about it at the 546 00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:31,440 Speaker 1: proverbial water cooler of the day. What happens to Ruby. 547 00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:40,400 Speaker 3: In a just fantastic stroke of irony, Elvis is fishing 548 00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:43,440 Speaker 3: around for songs for what would become his last record. 549 00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:48,680 Speaker 3: And this is in nineteen seventy six, and he still 550 00:29:48,760 --> 00:29:53,840 Speaker 3: has his fascination with Memphis boy Johnny Ace. So Elvis 551 00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:59,360 Speaker 3: records Pledging My Love, and then Elvis dies. 552 00:30:00,840 --> 00:30:03,200 Speaker 2: The double tap, the double tap. 553 00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:08,720 Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly. And Elvis's album is not a critical success. 554 00:30:08,800 --> 00:30:11,200 Speaker 3: That last record, I believe is called Blue. What is 555 00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:11,600 Speaker 3: it called? 556 00:30:11,960 --> 00:30:12,640 Speaker 2: Moody Blue? 557 00:30:12,680 --> 00:30:17,440 Speaker 3: Moody Blue? Thank you No, And but it sells a 558 00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:22,040 Speaker 3: shit ton as his albums did. And what happens is 559 00:30:22,640 --> 00:30:27,800 Speaker 3: Don Robie rakes in the royalties and his estate anyways, 560 00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:30,200 Speaker 3: rakes in the royalties because Don Roby's dead by that 561 00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:31,920 Speaker 3: that point, I don't remember how he met his end, 562 00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:38,000 Speaker 3: but the sad irony is that Johnny Ace's family received. 563 00:30:37,040 --> 00:30:39,560 Speaker 1: Yeah nothing, zip zilch. 564 00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:41,920 Speaker 2: It's a good example of people like that that are 565 00:30:41,960 --> 00:30:46,000 Speaker 2: taking advantage of you know, there's this guy's of like, 566 00:30:46,120 --> 00:30:47,959 Speaker 2: I'm gonna help you out, I'm gonna lift you up 567 00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:50,600 Speaker 2: out of the ghetto or whatever it might be, because 568 00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:53,240 Speaker 2: you're my people and I have your best interest at heart. 569 00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:55,120 Speaker 2: But there's just as many examples of people like that 570 00:30:55,160 --> 00:30:58,280 Speaker 2: taking advantage of their own, you know folks, and then 571 00:30:58,720 --> 00:31:02,840 Speaker 2: giving bad contracts, you know, making duplicitous deals and then 572 00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:04,840 Speaker 2: just keeping the money for themselves. 573 00:31:04,560 --> 00:31:07,000 Speaker 3: Or worse, dudes like Don Roby forcing their way into 574 00:31:07,040 --> 00:31:09,280 Speaker 3: co writes even though they had nothing to do with 575 00:31:09,360 --> 00:31:10,600 Speaker 3: the song. You know what I mean? 576 00:31:11,400 --> 00:31:15,480 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, oh man, that still happens, doesn't it. 577 00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:16,880 Speaker 3: I wouldn't doubt it's has. 578 00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:19,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's certainly there were there there was a 579 00:31:19,880 --> 00:31:22,320 Speaker 2: golden age for that kind of stuff in politics. I mean, 580 00:31:22,360 --> 00:31:24,480 Speaker 2: maybe it happens more in politics, but in music it's 581 00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:25,960 Speaker 2: a little hard to get away with that, I think 582 00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:30,280 Speaker 2: these days. But we also have you know, some Johnny 583 00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:33,040 Speaker 2: A songs being covered by some other pretty big names, 584 00:31:33,040 --> 00:31:35,400 Speaker 2: Bob Dylan and Joe Biaz did one of his tunes, 585 00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:38,120 Speaker 2: never Let Me Go, on the Rolling Thunder review, which 586 00:31:38,120 --> 00:31:41,200 Speaker 2: I think is featured in some of the film clips 587 00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:44,640 Speaker 2: from that incredible tour. Luther Vandross did a cover in 588 00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:48,400 Speaker 2: the nineties of a song that he had recorded originally, 589 00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:50,440 Speaker 2: and then, of course the biggest one was Elvis is 590 00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:53,040 Speaker 2: Pledging My Love, which was on that nineteen seventy six 591 00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:53,960 Speaker 2: record you're talking about. 592 00:31:54,040 --> 00:31:58,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, Now, as we said, Johnny Ace passes away 593 00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:04,560 Speaker 1: in uh what may seem like a long time ago, right, 594 00:32:04,720 --> 00:32:08,200 Speaker 1: but we must remember history is always closer than it 595 00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:10,480 Speaker 1: looks in the rear view mirror. 596 00:32:10,960 --> 00:32:11,080 Speaker 3: Uh. 597 00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:15,040 Speaker 1: A lot of people show up to the funeral, right, 598 00:32:15,360 --> 00:32:20,719 Speaker 1: And I've got to ask if Jake is our buddy 599 00:32:20,800 --> 00:32:25,320 Speaker 1: Dawn alive at this point? Does he show up to 600 00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:27,600 Speaker 1: see the passage of Johnny Ace. 601 00:32:28,080 --> 00:32:30,720 Speaker 3: He's definitely alive then, yeah, for sure. And I can't 602 00:32:30,760 --> 00:32:32,320 Speaker 3: say that I know he did or did not, but 603 00:32:32,360 --> 00:32:34,320 Speaker 3: I would I would bet money that he did. He 604 00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:37,160 Speaker 3: was still sort of milking the cow at that point financially, 605 00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:39,560 Speaker 3: and he was heavily invested in and. 606 00:32:39,520 --> 00:32:42,480 Speaker 2: He had an appearance to keep up because it wasn't 607 00:32:42,480 --> 00:32:45,160 Speaker 2: going to be immediately apparent that he was taking everybody 608 00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:48,040 Speaker 2: to the cleaner, right, he has to be supportive the 609 00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:49,560 Speaker 2: same way of the community. 610 00:32:49,760 --> 00:32:53,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, who's that? Who's that dude who took advantage of 611 00:32:53,440 --> 00:32:59,720 Speaker 1: Elvis Presley Colonel the Colonel? Yeah, okay, hardly. 612 00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:03,960 Speaker 2: As hell portrayed by Tom Hanks and Tom Hanks. What 613 00:33:04,160 --> 00:33:07,280 Speaker 2: an odd performance. I'm sorry, man, I don't we don't. 614 00:33:07,320 --> 00:33:09,080 Speaker 2: I don't have footage of this guy. I don't know 615 00:33:09,080 --> 00:33:10,960 Speaker 2: what he was like, but Tom made some choices. 616 00:33:11,040 --> 00:33:14,320 Speaker 1: And yeah, Tom from earlier, that guy is so wholesome. 617 00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:14,640 Speaker 4: You know. 618 00:33:14,840 --> 00:33:20,520 Speaker 1: His main thing that uh Tom Hanks loves is typewriters 619 00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:26,680 Speaker 1: more than acting. Yeah, he collect Yeah, and Jake, if 620 00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:30,200 Speaker 1: you if you have a typewriter and you type out 621 00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:33,920 Speaker 1: a letter and send it to him, he'll probably type 622 00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:34,640 Speaker 1: a letter back. 623 00:33:34,800 --> 00:33:39,160 Speaker 2: I love that, like Neil Young and his model trains. 624 00:33:39,320 --> 00:33:43,960 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it's like Noel and his cocaine have it. 625 00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:47,200 Speaker 2: If you guys and my modular synse excuse me exactly? 626 00:33:47,280 --> 00:33:50,920 Speaker 4: All right, Max, we'll keep it and I'll say as 627 00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:53,480 Speaker 4: we get de bosched when Jake's around, do you have 628 00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:56,520 Speaker 4: any other like little closing thoughts or takeaways from the story, 629 00:33:56,600 --> 00:33:59,520 Speaker 4: or how it kind of maybe you mentioned the tied 630 00:33:59,560 --> 00:34:02,120 Speaker 4: into that grief aspect that was such a through line 631 00:34:02,360 --> 00:34:02,960 Speaker 4: in your book. 632 00:34:03,240 --> 00:34:06,000 Speaker 2: I'm curious as to maybe how some of this fits 633 00:34:06,040 --> 00:34:06,480 Speaker 2: in with that. 634 00:34:06,800 --> 00:34:07,000 Speaker 1: Well. 635 00:34:07,040 --> 00:34:12,239 Speaker 3: I sort of imagine Elvis Presley sitting in his jungle room, 636 00:34:12,360 --> 00:34:16,319 Speaker 3: which was the man cave at Graceland, sort of, you know, 637 00:34:16,400 --> 00:34:20,880 Speaker 3: it's Christmas time, the snow is falling lightly outside, and 638 00:34:20,960 --> 00:34:24,399 Speaker 3: he's you know, he's you know, grief kind of comes 639 00:34:24,440 --> 00:34:26,840 Speaker 3: back around the holidays. I'm not the first one to 640 00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:29,480 Speaker 3: say that. And I could see him at that time 641 00:34:29,680 --> 00:34:33,760 Speaker 3: sort of. You know, it's nineteen seventy six. He's in bad, 642 00:34:33,920 --> 00:34:36,799 Speaker 3: bad shape, and he's he's fishing around, he's thinking about 643 00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:40,120 Speaker 3: his brother, and he's thinking about that song Pledging My Love, 644 00:34:40,160 --> 00:34:42,600 Speaker 3: and I could just, yeah, I could see that all 645 00:34:42,680 --> 00:34:46,400 Speaker 3: clicking in the place dramatically and being motivation for Elvis 646 00:34:46,440 --> 00:34:47,680 Speaker 3: to cover that tune. 647 00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:50,480 Speaker 2: Oh my god, you paint a picture, my friend. I'm 648 00:34:50,560 --> 00:34:52,959 Speaker 2: right there with you. Yeah. No, that's what a great 649 00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:56,080 Speaker 2: little little Christmas boat to put on this pretty dark 650 00:34:56,160 --> 00:34:56,840 Speaker 2: Christmas story. 651 00:34:57,320 --> 00:35:02,520 Speaker 1: Also, yeah, we all think a little bit about melancholy 652 00:35:03,600 --> 00:35:06,759 Speaker 1: at this time. Of the year, a little bit of nostalgia, right, 653 00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:11,320 Speaker 1: and we get we all get a little counting crows. 654 00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:13,120 Speaker 1: Long December, I would. 655 00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:16,239 Speaker 2: Say, I think to Ben's point from earlier, is a 656 00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:17,879 Speaker 2: Christmas song if you wanted to die. 657 00:35:17,920 --> 00:35:20,359 Speaker 3: I love that. I love that. I'm taping a show 658 00:35:20,440 --> 00:35:22,800 Speaker 3: later today about Christmas movies and our Christmas movies, and 659 00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:24,920 Speaker 3: I'm gonna, I'm gonna I'm gonna steal that idea and 660 00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:25,919 Speaker 3: pass it off as my own. 661 00:35:25,960 --> 00:35:29,640 Speaker 2: Ben something, please, please, I give you. I give you full. 662 00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:34,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you Noel for giving Jake permission for my idea. 663 00:35:34,960 --> 00:35:38,680 Speaker 1: There is one conspiracy theory we have to ask you about, 664 00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:44,440 Speaker 1: since you are our expert on music history, and if 665 00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:50,120 Speaker 1: you'd like to be a returning correspondent, we be absolutely 666 00:35:50,520 --> 00:35:53,200 Speaker 1: just over the moon to have you. Have you ever heard, 667 00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:57,040 Speaker 1: Jake the idea that Elvis Presley is a malungeon? 668 00:35:58,360 --> 00:36:00,000 Speaker 3: First of all, I'd love to come back any time. 669 00:36:01,080 --> 00:36:04,319 Speaker 3: I might discredit myself here in that endeavor by saying, 670 00:36:04,360 --> 00:36:05,919 Speaker 3: I don't know what a malungeon is? 671 00:36:06,040 --> 00:36:06,920 Speaker 2: What? 672 00:36:06,920 --> 00:36:09,279 Speaker 3: What is? What are we talking about? What is that? 673 00:36:10,360 --> 00:36:14,920 Speaker 1: Jake? It's a it's a tri racial isolate in East Tennessee. 674 00:36:15,600 --> 00:36:22,239 Speaker 1: UH with dodgy genetics. Uh yeah, usually accused historically of 675 00:36:22,360 --> 00:36:27,080 Speaker 1: being let's see, how's it go? No, it goes well, there's. 676 00:36:26,840 --> 00:36:29,839 Speaker 2: No it's it's it's considered a native like a first 677 00:36:29,880 --> 00:36:33,600 Speaker 2: nation group, correct to some degree. And then there's like 678 00:36:33,600 --> 00:36:37,040 Speaker 2: a there's a treasure, there's a mythological treasure of the Melungeons. 679 00:36:37,120 --> 00:36:38,960 Speaker 2: And of course it has come up. So I'm not 680 00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:41,640 Speaker 2: scooping here, Ben. I believe you are a member of 681 00:36:41,680 --> 00:36:43,040 Speaker 2: this tri racial isolate. 682 00:36:43,600 --> 00:36:47,480 Speaker 1: I am, and it is a it is a subject 683 00:36:47,520 --> 00:36:52,279 Speaker 1: of fascination, the idea that Elvis Presley might be maluncheon, 684 00:36:52,440 --> 00:36:58,400 Speaker 1: that Abraham Lincoln might be a luncheon. Basically, and just 685 00:36:58,440 --> 00:37:03,320 Speaker 1: to you know, folks where an audio podcast, Noel, Jake, 686 00:37:03,640 --> 00:37:07,600 Speaker 1: Max and yours truly can all see each other. I 687 00:37:07,840 --> 00:37:15,200 Speaker 1: don't have the tan to pull this off, but I'm 688 00:37:15,280 --> 00:37:22,000 Speaker 1: mainly bringing this up to note that anytime someone achieves 689 00:37:22,600 --> 00:37:27,520 Speaker 1: a certain threshold of fame, there will inevitably be folklore 690 00:37:27,680 --> 00:37:28,279 Speaker 1: about them. 691 00:37:28,440 --> 00:37:29,560 Speaker 2: Should we agree with that? 692 00:37:29,640 --> 00:37:31,719 Speaker 3: Yeah? Absolutely, absolutely so. 693 00:37:31,920 --> 00:37:35,560 Speaker 1: Jake. What's a what's a myth or a piece of 694 00:37:35,600 --> 00:37:39,560 Speaker 1: American or folklore you would like us to propagate about you? 695 00:37:41,320 --> 00:37:43,800 Speaker 2: And by that he means where can people find your work, 696 00:37:47,600 --> 00:37:49,600 Speaker 2: because you've got the folk Lord's out there already in 697 00:37:49,640 --> 00:37:52,680 Speaker 2: the book form and podcast form and video form. You 698 00:37:52,719 --> 00:37:53,440 Speaker 2: can out there. 699 00:37:54,360 --> 00:37:57,280 Speaker 3: You can listen to Disgrace Slam the podcast wherever podcasts 700 00:37:57,280 --> 00:38:01,560 Speaker 3: are available, the iHeart app, the Spotify app, Apple podcasts, 701 00:38:01,560 --> 00:38:05,680 Speaker 3: wherever that's available. We're gonna bump this Elvis Johnny Ace 702 00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:08,600 Speaker 3: archive episode up to the top right around the time 703 00:38:08,719 --> 00:38:13,920 Speaker 3: that that this version of the Ridiculous History episode goes live, 704 00:38:13,920 --> 00:38:15,720 Speaker 3: so people should be able to find it pretty easily. 705 00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:16,960 Speaker 3: And I'd love to have you guys on one of 706 00:38:16,960 --> 00:38:17,920 Speaker 3: my bonus episodes. 707 00:38:18,520 --> 00:38:19,160 Speaker 1: Are you kidding? 708 00:38:19,560 --> 00:38:21,879 Speaker 3: Yeah? No, And I'm not kidding at all. Yeah. Oftentimes, 709 00:38:21,960 --> 00:38:24,080 Speaker 3: you know, like last week in the bonus episode, which 710 00:38:24,120 --> 00:38:28,279 Speaker 3: is much different from the main scripted episodes, you know, 711 00:38:28,280 --> 00:38:32,000 Speaker 3: I was talking about there's this big vidy, this big documentary, 712 00:38:32,000 --> 00:38:35,799 Speaker 3: the Age of Disclosure. Have you guys seen this? It's fantastic, 713 00:38:35,840 --> 00:38:39,319 Speaker 3: And I was talking about that relative to musicians like 714 00:38:39,480 --> 00:38:42,240 Speaker 3: Merle Haggard was a huge He had a UFO experience 715 00:38:42,239 --> 00:38:43,719 Speaker 3: and he would not shut up about. At the end 716 00:38:43,760 --> 00:38:46,160 Speaker 3: of his life, John Lennon put it into Nobody told 717 00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:48,319 Speaker 3: me blank one eighty two we have an episode on 718 00:38:48,360 --> 00:38:51,000 Speaker 3: Tom DeLong being part of the disclosure movement. So oftentimes 719 00:38:51,280 --> 00:38:54,880 Speaker 3: we touch on topics that you guys are interested that 720 00:38:54,880 --> 00:38:56,680 Speaker 3: you guys are interested in, and I know, and we'd 721 00:38:56,680 --> 00:38:58,080 Speaker 3: love to have you. I'd love to have you on 722 00:38:58,160 --> 00:39:01,800 Speaker 3: to just sort of, you know, have a go both ways. 723 00:39:01,160 --> 00:39:03,600 Speaker 2: Well between ridiculous history and stuff. They want you to know, 724 00:39:03,640 --> 00:39:06,600 Speaker 2: we're basically interested in everything that there is, So I 725 00:39:06,640 --> 00:39:08,840 Speaker 2: think we could probably find a crossover opportunity. 726 00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:09,399 Speaker 3: Love that. 727 00:39:09,640 --> 00:39:13,120 Speaker 2: Love that, man, Dude, what a pleasure, haven't you. This 728 00:39:13,160 --> 00:39:15,120 Speaker 2: is such an interesting topic and a bit of a 729 00:39:15,239 --> 00:39:19,200 Speaker 2: dark one for Christmas, But we did do Fruitcake last week, 730 00:39:19,280 --> 00:39:21,719 Speaker 2: so I think we're okay. We balanced it out. You know, 731 00:39:21,760 --> 00:39:23,200 Speaker 2: you got to have the light with the dark. 732 00:39:23,239 --> 00:39:24,920 Speaker 3: Yeah, you guys talked about my nineties band Fruitcake. 733 00:39:26,760 --> 00:39:29,879 Speaker 1: I love your work mainly just you know, Jake, when 734 00:39:29,920 --> 00:39:35,239 Speaker 1: you listen, it's three hour podcasts, so not a time commitment. Yeah, 735 00:39:35,360 --> 00:39:38,400 Speaker 1: and the first two hours and fifty minutes are the 736 00:39:38,520 --> 00:39:40,160 Speaker 1: study of your band Fruitcake. 737 00:39:41,160 --> 00:39:43,800 Speaker 2: The rest of it is just various historical Fruitcake restime. 738 00:39:43,920 --> 00:39:44,080 Speaker 4: Yeah. 739 00:39:44,120 --> 00:39:44,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's it. 740 00:39:45,239 --> 00:39:49,840 Speaker 1: The last Uh do Thank you so much for joining us. Also, 741 00:39:50,200 --> 00:39:53,400 Speaker 1: we have to thank a couple of other people, including 742 00:39:53,800 --> 00:39:57,080 Speaker 1: our super producer, mister Max Williams. 743 00:39:57,200 --> 00:39:57,839 Speaker 3: Thank you Max. 744 00:39:57,920 --> 00:40:01,239 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, Alex Williams who composed this theme. Who is 745 00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:05,040 Speaker 2: this is maybe news to you, Jake, but is Max's 746 00:40:05,080 --> 00:40:07,320 Speaker 2: actual facts brother, and he's in the town for the 747 00:40:07,360 --> 00:40:09,560 Speaker 2: holidays and we're excited to hang out with him. Love 748 00:40:09,840 --> 00:40:13,080 Speaker 2: very soon. Love Chris Frociotis and Eaves Jeffcoat both here 749 00:40:13,120 --> 00:40:13,640 Speaker 2: in spirit. 750 00:40:13,840 --> 00:40:18,200 Speaker 1: Love that, And Jake. I hate to hold you to 751 00:40:18,239 --> 00:40:21,759 Speaker 1: the point, but ethics require can you give me one 752 00:40:21,960 --> 00:40:23,840 Speaker 1: legend to make up about you? 753 00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:30,680 Speaker 3: About me? That I am actually the grandson of Elvis 754 00:40:30,719 --> 00:40:35,840 Speaker 3: Presley's twin brother, oh my, who did not die at birth, 755 00:40:36,440 --> 00:40:41,200 Speaker 3: but was in fact given away to help people because 756 00:40:41,239 --> 00:40:44,680 Speaker 3: his mama, Gladys, could not afford to raise him. 757 00:40:45,160 --> 00:40:48,919 Speaker 1: And that is our show. That is a fact. It 758 00:40:49,000 --> 00:40:52,120 Speaker 1: is on record Library of Congress, fight with us. 759 00:40:52,920 --> 00:40:54,719 Speaker 3: Thanks guys, it is my pleasure. I appreciate you. 760 00:40:54,920 --> 00:40:56,200 Speaker 2: Oh heck yeah, We'll see you next time. 761 00:40:56,280 --> 00:40:58,920 Speaker 1: Folks. 762 00:41:03,320 --> 00:41:07,120 Speaker 2: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 763 00:41:07,200 --> 00:41:09,360 Speaker 2: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.